Military Review

Chinese engines for the ISC project 21631

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At the end of last year, the general director of OAO Zelenodolsk Plant named after A.M. Gorky ”Renat Mistakhov said that only 9 of 5 of the Buyan-M project missile ships under construction at the enterprise received the German MTU 16V4000M90 diesel engines supposed by the project, due to the fact that their delivery was stopped due to the adoption of anti-Russian sanctions. The remaining 4 ships will be equipped with Chinese engines, the blog reports bmpd.


Chinese engines for the ISC project 21631


According to the blog, “this should be high-speed 20-cylinder ship diesel engines CHD622V20 XWHMX kW of power produced by the Chinese company Henan Diesel Engine Industry Co., Ltd (HND, located in Jianxi city, Luoyang district, Henan province, part of the Chinese state shipbuilding CSIC ) ".

In September, Chinese media reported that NHD "received contracts from a Russian customer for the supply of eight CHD622V20 engines (that is, for two ships of the 21631 project)."



Blogger notes that “according to the table characteristics, the HND CHD622V20 engine compared to the MTU diesel 16V4000M90 has a greater continuous maximum power (3129 kW versus 2720 kW) and a greater number of revolutions on a long maximum mode (2300 versus 2100) with a comparable efficiency level of effective efficiency, in a level of effective level of effective efficiency that has been applied to the same level of effective value for effective efficiency. g of fuel per kW per hour) ".
Photos used:
Henan Diesel Engine Industry
109 comments
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  1. tiredwithall
    tiredwithall 28 March 2016 12: 56
    +54
    It's time to restore Russian engine production
    1. Kostyar
      Kostyar 28 March 2016 13: 01
      +29
      Have come ...
      1. Nitarius
        Nitarius 28 March 2016 13: 33
        +22
        to put it mildly, they have come down .. rather they have fallen!
    2. makst83
      makst83 28 March 2016 13: 01
      +29
      heh, German engines in Chinese packaging, better than nothing!

      Py.Sy. Give time and you will have engines, our, domestic! soldier
      1. Altona
        Altona 28 March 2016 14: 05
        +11
        Quote: makst83
        heh, German engines in Chinese packaging, better than nothing!

        ---------------------
        Well, it's like a Lifan instead of a Honda ... Look at these engines in a gardening store and find 10 differences. You will not find them, the weight and size characteristics are exactly the same, the connection dimensions are identical, the power is the same. Only the price is different, Chinese is 3 times cheaper.
        1. alpamys
          alpamys 28 March 2016 14: 19
          +5
          Quote: Altona
          Quote: makst83
          heh, German engines in Chinese packaging, better than nothing!

          ---------------------
          Well, it's like a Lifan instead of a Honda ... Look at these engines in a gardening store and find 10 differences. You will not find them, the weight and size characteristics are exactly the same, the connection dimensions are identical, the power is the same. Only the price is different, Chinese is 3 times cheaper.

          so the price is not taken from the ceiling, the whole process is very time-consuming, hence the quality.
          1. Altona
            Altona 28 March 2016 15: 02
            +2
            Quote: alpamys
            so the price is not taken from the ceiling, the whole process is very time-consuming, hence the quality.

            -------------------
            I honestly don’t think Lifan is better than Honda. I needed them for the manufacture of a mini-hydro station for the mechanization of a semi-trailer-lifting hydraulic ramps and for the steering of the rear bogie on a long oversized bulk carrier.
        2. garnik64
          garnik64 28 March 2016 19: 38
          -1
          And three times lower motor resource. And in general, like a butt on the head. Someone must answer.
      2. Mareman Vasilich
        Mareman Vasilich 28 March 2016 14: 11
        +2
        What time is it? 15 years have passed.
    3. lelikas
      lelikas 28 March 2016 13: 03
      +12
      Of course you must! On the one hand, it’s joyful that the Germans salmon tuna, on the other - it’s a shame that the Chinese and not ours. Although ships are more important.
      1. Igor39
        Igor39 28 March 2016 13: 44
        0
        So there are no engines on the 11356 watchdogs, 6 wanted to do them at the Black Sea Fleet, and now they want to sell those built without the Indian engines, like that.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 28 March 2016 13: 53
          +1
          Quote: Igor39
          So there are no engines on the 11356 watchdogs, 6 wanted to do them at the Black Sea Fleet, and now they want to sell those built without the Indian engines, like that.

          Not certainly in that way. The first 3 FR pr.11356 turbines are. But for the second series of 2 buildings - no longer.
        2. Altona
          Altona 28 March 2016 14: 08
          +3
          Quote: Igor39
          So there are no engines on the 11356 watchdogs, 6 wanted to do them at the Black Sea Fleet, and now they want to sell those built without the Indian engines, like that.

          -----------------------
          The retired fleet commander initiated the creation of a technical interdepartmental commission to determine the model line of engines for the civil and military fleet, for ships comparable in class and displacement. How did it end? Drowned in an idea?
      2. Hon
        Hon 28 March 2016 18: 46
        +3
        Quote: lelikas
        Of course you must! On the one hand, it’s joyful that the Germans salmon tuna, on the other - it’s a shame that the Chinese and not ours. Although ships are more important

        These are not Germans, but we salmon
    4. from punk
      from punk 28 March 2016 13: 43
      +1
      Quote: tiredwithall
      It's time to restore Russian engine production

      I hope that the measure is temporary, compelled. And we still have a breakdown in frigates because of the engines, they also need to be completed and transferred to the fleet, so that we can begin to build our OWN completely
    5. Sirs
      Sirs 28 March 2016 18: 36
      +1
      What about Kolomna diesel engines?
      1. Cat man null
        Cat man null 28 March 2016 18: 40
        +2
        Quote: Sirs
        What about Kolomna diesel engines?

        Have you read the comments? no well ..

        Quote: AlexeyRA
        Quote: Jrvin
        Where are the Kolomna diesel engines? There are very good ones ... why buy this Chinese trash ...

        Then, that imported engines appeared on our ships precisely following the results of the operation of domestic Kolomna diesel engines at 20380

        Something like that..
  2. astronom1973n
    astronom1973n 28 March 2016 12: 57
    +34
    Only one thing can be said about the installation of Chinese engines on our military equipment - SHAME! And no need to tell what "breakthrough" Chinese machine builders are.
    1. grandson of Perun
      grandson of Perun 28 March 2016 13: 12
      +9
      Quote: astronom1973n
      And no need to tell what "breakthrough" Chinese machine builders are

      Breakthrough - not breakthrough, but Chinese engineering is very well developed. Moreover, not only mechanical engineering as production is developed, but also machine tool engineering as the production of means of production.
      That is, the Chinese do not need to buy a plant abroad to organize diesel production - they can build and equip themselves with all the necessary technological equipment.
      1. Asadullah
        Asadullah 28 March 2016 13: 55
        +17
        That is, the Chinese do not need to organize the production of diesel engines to buy a plant abroad


        Undoubtedly. But the Chinese had Den Xiao Ping, the country did not break up, industrialization did not stop. Russia had Gorbachev, the loss of territories where integrated production, economic decline and political storms were located. Here many shout. Yes, shame on us all. Those who destroyed the vast Empire and those who could not stop it. They themselves are in the face and shout. It is not the winner who is judged, but the loser .... it is necessary to swallow the grudge and grit your teeth to work for the country to the best of your ability.
        1. Karlovar
          Karlovar 28 March 2016 14: 15
          +6
          That's just it, that the screamers are mostly gnawed at resentment (against themselves, for the collapse of the USSR) and envy of the Chinese, who had the intelligence and will to avoid labeled, drunks, redheads, bad boys, grabbing, cutting the fleet, aviation, missiles to please new "friends" from the West, total plunder of the population, throwing mud at their former leaders and a bunch of other liberal "charms" ...
          1. Hon
            Hon 28 March 2016 18: 49
            0
            In fact, China started to make progress after "perestroika" only they did everything smartly
            1. alexmach
              alexmach 28 March 2016 23: 28
              +1
              There was no perestroika in China, in China there was industrialization according to the Stalinist patterns. Adjusted for 50 years. That's all.
              1. Hon
                Hon 29 March 2016 10: 32
                +1
                Quote: alexmach
                There was no perestroika in China, in China there was industrialization according to the Stalinist patterns. Adjusted for 50 years. That's all.

                Reform and openness policy (Chinese: 改革 开放; pall .: Gaige Kaifang) is a program of economic reforms undertaken in the People's Republic of China aimed at creating so-called socialism with Chinese characteristics, or a socialist market economy and openness to the outside world.

                Reforms were launched in 1978 at the initiative of the wing of the pragmatists in the Chinese Communist Party (CCP), led by Deng Xiaoping, and continue to this day. The reformers set themselves the goal of creating surplus value sufficient to finance the modernization of the Chinese economy, which was on the verge of a catastrophe after the failure of the “big leap” policy and command methods pursued by Mao Zedong. The initial objective of the reforms was to solve the problem of motivating workers and peasants and to eliminate the economic imbalances characteristic of command economies.
                What is in the Stalinist Chinese reforms?
    2. Mareman Vasilich
      Mareman Vasilich 28 March 2016 14: 12
      +1
      It’s interesting to know if this is stupidity or treason?
    3. Vladimir32
      Vladimir32 28 March 2016 19: 49
      +7
      In vain you are so good at their plants, we only envy. I will tell you one story. I attended somehow at a directorial meeting at Uralmashzavod, gene. The director just returned from the First Engineering Plant in China. According to him, after visiting this plant, he no longer believes that we will catch up with China in the field of engineering. And the general director of people. experienced native and Izhora.
      In the late eighties, a new workshop was built on Uralmash with the latest equipment at that time. What do you think, where did this equipment migrate in the early nineties? Alas, but in China, the trains were taken from the factory.
  3. The comment was deleted.
    1. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 28 March 2016 13: 00
      +5
      Quote: avvg
      It turns out that the Chinese can not only make "consumer goods" and "serious things" can also make.

      Disposable.
      1. Alex777
        Alex777 28 March 2016 13: 55
        +6
        Well, why foolish things.
        This Chinese company is well owned by the Germans. So they bypass sanctions. They themselves can’t, but through China - please.
        1. Mavrikiy
          Mavrikiy 28 March 2016 19: 10
          0
          Quote: Alex777
          Well, why foolish things.

          Yes, yes, you don’t need to fool around, I am against. But I will explain my position.
          For things - to Germany, for weapons - to Russia, for fireworks - China is beyond competition.
          "a good share belongs to the Germans." And what if a good share of the profits goes to the Germans? Do you understand what you mean? An enterprise in China, Chinese laws, management, mentality ... The most hardworking ... and everything will be beautiful. But to spend an extra penny, so, for reliability, I'm sorry, move over.
          The engines did not have a resource and will not, disposable.
          Yes, the Chinese fleet is on its own, but not yet ...
          1. alexmach
            alexmach 28 March 2016 23: 31
            +1
            An enterprise in China, Chinese laws, management, mentality ... The most hardworking .. and everything will be beautiful. But to spend an extra penny, so, for reliability, it's excuse me, move on.


            Are you an expert on Chinese mentality? I dare to assure you that the cheapest and low-quality Chinese products in our market are not because of the Chinese mentality, because of their own.
      2. Karlovar
        Karlovar 28 March 2016 14: 19
        +6
        The keyboard on which you knock is disposable ??? Every day you buy a beech ???
    2. Stirbjorn
      Stirbjorn 28 March 2016 13: 02
      0
      seriousness according to the “tabular characteristics” so far, then we will see how much MTUshny they are replacement
      1. Karlovar
        Karlovar 28 March 2016 14: 18
        +2
        Chinese destroyers, frigates, corvettes, UDC swim the hedge, not welded to the piers are ...
    3. Starover_Z
      Starover_Z 28 March 2016 13: 07
      +3
      Quote: avvg
      It turns out that the Chinese can not only make "consumer goods" and "serious things" can also make.

      And how reliable are Chinese diesel engines ?!
      How much I read here, the Chinese, even for themselves, can’t make reliable aircraft engines, but here are the marine ones for sale ...
      1. grandson of Perun
        grandson of Perun 28 March 2016 13: 27
        +5
        Quote: Starover_Z
        the Chinese can’t even make reliable aircraft engines for themselves, and here are the marine ones for sale

        The comparison is inappropriate, because the technology is completely different.
        Now, if it weren’t for a diesel, but a ship’s gas turbine, for which, as for aviation, it is necessary to produce blades operating at high temperatures ...
        1. Karlovar
          Karlovar 28 March 2016 14: 24
          0
          The Chinese have been doing ship gas turbine engines for a long time already .... What do you think they are going to destroy? Steamed? Or sails?
      2. Karlovar
        Karlovar 28 March 2016 14: 22
        +5
        And it doesn’t bother that in Russia they don’t even make unreliable marine diesels ??? By the way, the Chinese and ship gas turbines do, again, unlike Russia ....
  4. alpamys
    alpamys 28 March 2016 12: 59
    +1
    Chinese to the defense industry? it smells of sabotage
    1. Hon
      Hon 28 March 2016 18: 50
      +2
      Either Chinese or rowing fleet
  5. x.andvlad
    x.andvlad 28 March 2016 12: 59
    +7
    It is good that a replacement is found. BUT. Interestingly, what prevents us from making such engines, brains or hands ourselves? So we continue to finance foreign industry. Now here is the Chinese one. I want to believe that this is a temporary replacement.
    1. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 28 March 2016 13: 02
      +1
      Quote: x.andvlad
      It is good that a replacement is found. BUT. Interestingly, what prevents us from making such engines, brains or hands ourselves?

      I'm afraid these are hands, or rather their absence.
    2. Uncle lee
      Uncle lee 28 March 2016 13: 04
      +13
      Pechkin: Do you have enough funds?
      Cat Matroskin: We have enough funds, we do not have enough mind!
    3. tiredwithall
      tiredwithall 28 March 2016 13: 51
      +6
      The semi-colonial state of the country
    4. Vadim237
      Vadim237 28 March 2016 14: 01
      0
      The absence of a mass consumer for such engines, so that production would pay off, several thousand such engines should be produced annually.
    5. alexmach
      alexmach 28 March 2016 23: 33
      +2
      brains or hands

      Both. There is no technology, no established production, no workers - nothing. Everything must be done from scratch.
  6. doework
    doework 28 March 2016 13: 00
    +14
    China can produce almost everything, and Russia can mainly sell oil!
    Such a sad division of labor ... have come ..
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 28 March 2016 13: 43
      +10
      Well, China has not just begun to produce almost everything. Now, by the way, on the way of China, Vietnam has gone. Just the other day Samsung signed the next phase of a megaproject for 2 billion dollars to create an innovation center - this time 300 million dollars will go to build laboratories and a R&D center. The first stage - factories for the production of electronic equipment, both in components and in full readiness, are already working.

      Intel also built a factory in Vietnam. Now more than 60% I5 - is produced there.

      The clue is simple - very convenient laws for the arrival of corporations, as well as personal agreements, for example, Samsung for 2 billion dollars of the project, the organization of Hi-Tech Park, the training of Vietnamese specialists (under conditions - in all areas, from streaming lines to top management, should be Vietnamese), and of production, for this they are exempted from paying for land for 50 years, and also receive tax holidays for the first years.

      Also, China did in due time. First, he created the conditions for corporations to come and build advanced plants. Then their own enterprises took over / stolen / lured employees, organized similar production efficiency, already 100% Chinese. Then they bought licenses or stole the most successful, popular product models. They were put into production already at the 100% Chinese plant. And then, they began to modernize, develop something new. The same Shaahti is now in the tops of civilian marine diesels, and they started with a MAN license.

      But, another option is to develop your school. This is longer and not the fact that it will take off. However, the same Kolomna makes a really good D500 diesel - which, according to all planned characteristics, will be at the global level +/-. However, now there are only 12 cylinder bench models and only the first production batch is unfolding. 16 and 20 cylinders will be much later in production by 20. YaMZ for cars made a good diesel engine YaMZ-530 - though there is Austrian AVL there, it helped a lot, which is not bad at all.
      1. Karlovar
        Karlovar 28 March 2016 14: 30
        0
        The Chinese have long moved thousands (!) Of enterprises to Vietnam .... And not only to Vietnam ...
  7. SlavaS
    SlavaS 28 March 2016 13: 01
    +4
    And where is the Russian production ?! Praise to privatization !!, for this, apparently, a monument and the Yeltsin center were opened. Maybe Vladimir Vladimirovich has built an army now and production will begin to raise under its protection!
  8. gispanec
    gispanec 28 March 2016 13: 04
    +8
    Quote: astronom1973n
    In fact, the installation of Chinese engines on our military equipment can say only one thing- SHAME!

    and developing rocket engines .... new planes and ships on Chinese laptops is not a disgrace? ... and wearing all Chinese clothes is not a disgrace? ... and buying hovers, etc ... is not a disgrace? ... but the whole building the equipment made in China is not a shame? ... we have 2/3 of the country eating, dressing, working and building on Chinese equipment ... is it not a shame? ...... what kind of slogans ?? ... throw out all the Chinese from an apartment and a car and become a real patriot ..... for 2 years already under sanctions and the industry (everything from light to heavy) as it was in the OPE and it sits there tightly ... and you slogans are inappropriate here .....
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 28 March 2016 14: 07
      +1
      Import substitution for 10 years, you must wait at least - you won’t do anything quickly.
      1. Hon
        Hon 28 March 2016 18: 53
        -1
        Import substitution is when one import is replaced by another?
    2. Karlovar
      Karlovar 28 March 2016 14: 35
      0
      Then everyone will go naked, count accounts, use the landline phone (which is with the drive) to communicate, go in vain (because spare parts for any automobiles in China are made), and frigates and RTOs will have to be mastered on steam.
  9. grandson of Perun
    grandson of Perun 28 March 2016 13: 06
    +3
    Quote: x.andvlad
    Interestingly, we are prevented from making such engines, brains or hands ourselves.

    In fact, for the mass production of engines, there is a lot of what is needed, starting from machine tools, metallurgy, a scientific school and ending with qualified specialists as constructors, technologists, machine tools ...
    1. alpamys
      alpamys 28 March 2016 13: 12
      0
      Quote: Perun's grandson
      Quote: x.andvlad
      Interestingly, we are prevented from making such engines, brains or hands ourselves.

      In fact, for the mass production of engines, there is a lot of what is needed, starting from machine tools, metallurgy, a scientific school and ending with qualified specialists as constructors, technologists, machine tools ...

      so there are specialists, you have to pay well so that people are interested not in fruit trading, but in the country to create. The ship engine is such a thing that it is delivered once and the current is maintained, it cannot be changed at Kamaz (there are true exceptions), the whole ship will have to be disassembled.
      1. kepmor
        kepmor 28 March 2016 14: 04
        +12
        Stupidity do not say please!
        Over 15 years of service on ships of these diesels (and the main engines of the M-507A and diesel generators), dozens of me changed mechanics with me!
        The technology has been developed for decades! In 1991, my Albatross had the right main head replaced in less than 24 hours, with a harness!
        And there is no need to disassemble the ship! Just cut out the "technological sheet" in the upper deck and that's it!
        And as for our Soviet diesels, I will say one thing - it’s extremely rare, zero reliability! They are very capricious in operation, almost anything - a water hammer, the fuel equipment was probably copied from captured Wehrmacht diesels! The only plus - there were a lot of them in the warehouses of TechUpra fleet, but this can’t be taken away!
        Look at the BDK of Polish construction, have been wound for a year in Syria and nothing! And they have German and Polish diesel engines, though they are low-speed, but they have a huge motor resource!
        There was no good technology in the USSR in the production of marine diesel engines, so there is nothing special to revive!
        From scratch, you need to create everything in order to catch up even with the Chinese!
        1. donavi49
          donavi49 28 March 2016 14: 13
          +2
          Zgoda-Sulzer there.

          By the way, they decided to leave Zgoda-Sulzer at the new-old Evgenia Gorigledzhan (MB-305), they will only capitalize (it can be seen that they saved 40% of the money due to housing and capital).

          Service life 25 years. Despite the fact that there are 81 or 82 engines of the year, and the ship itself is 83 of the year.
        2. alpamys
          alpamys 28 March 2016 15: 17
          0
          Quote: kepmor
          Stupidity do not say please!
          Over 15 years of service on ships of these diesels (and the main engines of the M-507A and diesel generators), dozens of me changed mechanics with me!

          we see different experiences, because there are ships of the XXL size and not a small anti-submarine.
    2. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 28 March 2016 13: 28
      +5
      I have a neighbor candidate of science. I ran to the construction sites in Moscow. He reached disability (osteochondrosis). Now nobody needs it.
      1. alpamys
        alpamys 28 March 2016 13: 39
        +6
        Quote: mordvin xnumx
        I have a neighbor candidate of science. I ran to the construction sites in Moscow. He reached disability (osteochondrosis). Now nobody needs it.

        I myself worked at the design bureau on erosion technology as a turner, in the 90s everything fell apart, and bazaar engineers, some sellers, some beggars or drunk ...
        1. Darkoff
          Darkoff 28 March 2016 14: 13
          0
          [quote = alpamys] [quote = Mordvin 3] worked with an erosion technique as a turner [/ quote]
          decrypt, please.
          And then a mixture of cabbage soup with cutlets turned out.
          1. alpamys
            alpamys 28 March 2016 14: 23
            +1
            Quote: DarkOFF

            And then a mixture of cabbage soup with cutlets turned out.


            By decision of the USSR government, the Tselinogradselmash, Kazakhselmash and GSKB PET (Head Specialized Design Bureau of Anti-Erosion Engineering) were combined into a production association for the production of anti-erosion equipment. The intensive development of factories and infrastructure began. The association has become the largest city-forming enterprise, the flagship of domestic engineering in Kazakhstan. In 1986, the Karagandaselmash and Kzylordarismash factories, also producing machines, were included in the association. The number of employees was 136 thousand people.
    3. Karlovar
      Karlovar 28 March 2016 14: 37
      0
      For the proper establishment of production, logistics, brains are also needed, in this you are right ...
  10. iliitchitch
    iliitchitch 28 March 2016 13: 06
    0
    What is the resource of those engines? Not a word, "more power", "comparable" ... ugh. Machine-tool industry has always been a weak point in the USSR, but now it is generally stuck, and this is the result, we cannot make a diesel engine for RTOs.
    1. donavi49
      donavi49 28 March 2016 13: 24
      +5
      There, because what is the difficulty. Ship with UKKS heavier from MAK. Remodeling the propulsion system is to disrupt the whole concept, a minimum of improvements, a quick series. You can’t put a domestic engine, because again you have to redo a third of the ship for a new machine and not the fact that it will fit (either large engines, or Austrian from Zvezda, or just another 2 engine into an assembly with a gearbox). Therefore, then they found a rather optimal solution - to purchase proven, reliable, with excellent return kW / net weight - MTU. Moreover, the D500 family left in 2020 + years. Now there is no MTU (however, a part with MTU, for example, those that shot at the broads in Syria with MTU) - the ships are recruited, there are foundations. Obviously, they chose the engine that stands up and meets the characteristics.

      As for the resource, domestic M507 and 16D49 will not be better.
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 28 March 2016 14: 11
      +2
      No, they didn’t hang, they do, in Russia 58 machine-tool plants all work.
      1. alpamys
        alpamys 28 March 2016 14: 59
        +1
        Quote: Vadim237
        No, they didn’t hang, they do, in Russia 58 machine-tool plants all work.

        Well, at least so, the gearbox is imported, like the Siemens control unit.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 28 March 2016 16: 44
          -1
          This control box from Siemens is already the world standard for CNC machines, but DMG interfaces are many times better.
  11. Evgeny RS
    Evgeny RS 28 March 2016 13: 11
    +3
    This is not import substitution.
  12. pts-m
    pts-m 28 March 2016 13: 18
    +1
    In each transaction, everyone gains their pros and cons. This is a reasonable tactic only for those who are set up for long-term production. Draw conclusions.
  13. Urgen
    Urgen 28 March 2016 13: 20
    +3
    There are serious companies in China doing normal and fairly high-quality things. So here only the exploitation will show. Well, the quality of German engines may already be "far from the same". The replacement of Germans in production with cheap "migrant" force cannot but affect the quality.
  14. astronom1973n
    astronom1973n 28 March 2016 13: 21
    0
    Quote: gispanec
    Quote: astronom1973n
    In fact, the installation of Chinese engines on our military equipment can say only one thing- SHAME!

    and developing rocket engines .... new planes and ships on Chinese laptops is not a disgrace? ... and wearing all Chinese clothes is not a disgrace? ... and buying hovers, etc ... is not a disgrace? ... but the whole building the equipment made in China is not a shame? ... we have 2/3 of the country eating, dressing, working and building on Chinese equipment ... is it not a shame? ...... what kind of slogans ?? ... throw out all the Chinese from an apartment and a car and become a real patriot ..... for 2 years already under sanctions and the industry (everything from light to heavy) as it was in the OPE and it sits there tightly ... and you slogans are inappropriate here .....

    The USSR was also under sanctions for a long time. So what? Do you buy engines in China? Your perplexity is inappropriate ..
    1. gispanec
      gispanec 28 March 2016 13: 28
      +3
      Quote: astronom1973n
      The USSR was also under sanctions for a long time. So what? Do you buy engines in China?

      you are sick of the USSR ..... where is that USSR ?? .... everything is in dill and dviguny and everything ..... only the government of NIFU did not when the sanctions were imposed .... and DOES not do so far. .... eats and saws the oil strip ..... introduces new taxes ... increases the cost of electricity (NOVGOROD for the population 6p / 40kop for two tariffs ... increases excise taxes on fuel ...) which production can develop under conditions when you are squeezed dry before the construction stage of this production !!!!
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 28 March 2016 14: 19
        -2
        The government does not do anything - mostly private owners, concerns, holdings and firms do what they will profit from releasing, what is not profitable - they will not and the government cannot force them to do - the market economy.
    2. Dewa1s
      Dewa1s 29 March 2016 11: 55
      0
      To do shit a lot of brains is not necessary. But we want modern technology, right?
  15. Kudrevkn
    Kudrevkn 28 March 2016 13: 24
    +2
    Well done Chinese! Bailed out on interstate cooperation. But the Teutons were like dogs and walked a pig, and continue to defame, fascists are not finished !!!
    1. Roman 11
      Roman 11 28 March 2016 20: 04
      0
      Quietly crap for our victory laughing
  16. Dimon19661
    Dimon19661 28 March 2016 13: 24
    +1
    Incidentally, the Chinese Navy served in the Soviet Navy for many years (30-35), and nothing, it’s normal. It was a sort of sea bus that went to them.
  17. Zubr
    Zubr 28 March 2016 13: 31
    +1
    It's like in school: "Sit down a deuce" .... sad
  18. sergeyzzz
    sergeyzzz 28 March 2016 13: 35
    +2
    And they said that they would deliver the Russians, they even called the brand. It doesn’t seem to have grown together.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 28 March 2016 14: 22
      +1
      It is necessary to wait for Russian years 5–7, when these engines are created, tested and put into production - then they will be installed.
  19. asiat_61
    asiat_61 28 March 2016 13: 45
    +1
    Blogger notes that “according to the table characteristics, the HND CHD622V20 engine compared to the MTU diesel 16V4000M90 has a greater continuous maximum power (3129 kW versus 2720 kW) and a greater number of revolutions on a long maximum mode (2300 versus 2100) with a comparable efficiency level of effective efficiency, in a level of effective level of effective efficiency that has been applied to the same level of effective value for effective efficiency. g of fuel per kW per hour) ".
    ... So I would not believe in Chinese fairy tales. At work there are Chinese and Japanese Cummins engines, no comparison. Chinese engines are like Marelli generators, you don't know when they grunt.
    1. Dimon19661
      Dimon19661 28 March 2016 13: 49
      +1
      I completely agree, we have the same song-Chinese Cummins is something (((Although Deutsch is (China), that seems to be normal.
    2. alpamys
      alpamys 28 March 2016 13: 57
      0
      Quote: asiat_61
      Blogger notes that “according to the table characteristics, the HND CHD622V20 engine compared to the MTU diesel 16V4000M90 has a greater continuous maximum power (3129 kW versus 2720 kW) and a greater number of revolutions on a long maximum mode (2300 versus 2100) with a comparable efficiency level of effective efficiency, in a level of effective level of effective efficiency that has been applied to the same level of effective value for effective efficiency. g of fuel per kW per hour) ".
      ... So I would not believe in Chinese fairy tales. At work there are Chinese and Japanese Cummins engines, no comparison. Chinese engines are like Marelli generators, you don't know when they grunt.

      and presents a greater number of revolutions as a plus))), it doesn’t matter in the ship, the transmission does its job, and the rapidly rotating screw turns into a mixer and loses traction.
  20. Professor
    Professor 28 March 2016 13: 47
    +3
    The remaining 4 ships will be equipped with Chinese engines

    Now I understand what import substitution is. This is a replacement of one import to another ... import. fool
    1. tiredwithall
      tiredwithall 28 March 2016 14: 12
      +1
      Well said professor!
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Vadim237
      Vadim237 28 March 2016 14: 23
      +1
      This is true all over the world.
    4. dgiguli1962
      dgiguli1962 28 March 2016 16: 34
      +1
      Do you want to say Israel produces all the complex pieces of iron itself? Why such gloating?
      1. Professor
        Professor 28 March 2016 21: 29
        +1
        Quote: dgiguli1962
        Do you want to say Israel produces all the complex pieces of iron itself? Why such gloating?

        In Israel, no one makes a fool of himself with the slogan "import substitution".
  21. Jrvin
    Jrvin 28 March 2016 13: 50
    +2
    Where are the Kolomna diesel engines? There are very good ones ... why buy this Chinese trash ...
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 28 March 2016 14: 25
      +1
      They did not arrange the MO receivers.
      1. Roman 11
        Roman 11 28 March 2016 20: 14
        -1
        Quote: Vadim237
        They did not arrange the MO receivers.

        Let them bring it to mind - they send the director to Siberia, engineers - wipers of pants, all kinds of godfathers, brothers, matchmakers - a filthy broom ... Raise the workers' wages, so that it falls without delay (in the list not through other people's pockets)

        That is, normal, normal work !! TIME - TWO WEEKS! And if at all deaf, replace Siberia with a wall.
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 28 March 2016 22: 02
          -1
          We have a rule of law in which there are no more "walls" - it will endure everything.
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 28 March 2016 16: 01
      0
      Quote: Jrvin
      Where are the Kolomna diesel engines? There are very good ones ... why buy this Chinese trash ...

      Then, that imported engines appeared on our ships precisely following the results of the operation of domestic Kolomna diesel engines at 20380.

      And the second - the ships are already laid down and are being built under German engines. And the fleet urgently needs these ships, especially taking into account the situation with the cargo customs for the FR. Therefore, as already written here:
      Quote: donavi49
      Ship with UKKS heavier from MAK. Remodeling the propulsion system is to disrupt the whole concept, a minimum of improvements, a quick series. You can’t put a domestic engine, because again you have to redo a third of the ship for a new machine and not the fact that it will fit (either large engines, or Austrian from Zvezda, or just 2 more engines in an assembly with a gearbox). Therefore, then they found a rather optimal solution - to purchase proven, reliable, with excellent return kW / net weight - MTU. Moreover, the D500 family left in 2020+. Now there is no MTU (however, a part with MTU, for example, those that shot at the broads in Syria with MTU) - the ships are recruited, there are foundations. Obviously, they chose the engine that stands up and meets the characteristics.
  22. bad
    bad 28 March 2016 14: 19
    +3
    Chinese or German .. who and how will operate and maintain the main thing! .. if the mechanic has his hands out of his ass and his head is like a cork he rolls a royce so that you won’t recover .. competent and qualified technicians with the right brains and Russian ingenuity I think and the Chinese will be forced to work as a native .. and its will be with time, I believe .. hi
  23. DimerVladimer
    DimerVladimer 28 March 2016 15: 06
    +3
    The Chinese, who purchased foreign technology, make good engines. For example, the motor resources of YaMZ-238 up to the first premium can be 5000 hours or maybe modify up to 10000-12000 hours. But the reliability is low. Chinese WV10 goes up to 22000-27000 to kapitalki.
    Given the truly mass production (shipbuilding in China is now ahead of South Korea) - the cost of diesel engines will not be high.
    You stand on the banks of the Juan Pu, and hundreds of self-propelled barges pass by.
    1. Karlovar
      Karlovar 28 March 2016 15: 30
      -1
      There is no sense in explaining to people! The fact that China is the world leader in civil shipbuilding, that the whole world buys their ships, that shipowners from around the world, respectively, are satisfied with their ships, and, accordingly, again, engines (in terms of power and resource) are not familiar to them, too lazy to compose a logical chain.
    2. Karlovar
      Karlovar 28 March 2016 20: 40
      +1
      Don’t shock people like patriots, they have stereotypes of 15 years ago at the forefront! Jamming of the brain may occur ....
  24. Bulrumeb
    Bulrumeb 28 March 2016 15: 25
    0
    The remaining 4 ships will be equipped with Chinese engines

    And when will they be? Or again do not understand who we will depend on?
  25. v.yegorov
    v.yegorov 28 March 2016 16: 30
    +2
    Better engine from China than H.ren from Germany, I hope we will master the necessary
    lineup someday. But one must not forget what was beneficial for the USSR and CMEA, hardly
    is beneficial for Russia and the vehicle. Volumes are not comparable, production is unprofitable, and
    have to do.
  26. Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 28 March 2016 16: 49
    +3
    The engine is not so simple. If the country does not have precise casting of cylinder blocks, then you won’t especially take it easy. I think the second step is to order casting from China, and do the rest ourselves. And when the series goes, do the casting. And to make a universal diesel for military ships and civilians. When there is a series of profitability is better ...
    1. Vladimir32
      Vladimir32 28 March 2016 19: 37
      0
      Already ordered, for example, there is such a Ural diesel engine plant, it orders cast-iron crankcase, the quality is very good. By the way, part of these diesels goes to the MO (auxiliary diesel engines for ships)
  27. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 28 March 2016 17: 18
    0
    For 25 years, China has jumped from cheap consumer goods
    to complex engineering and scientific and military electronics.

    Secret: wide integration in the global economy and finance,
    technological foreign plants on its territory
    (and training their specialists on them),
    minimal government interference in business,
    both domestic and foreign, no 51% of government shares in
    private business, no "squeezing" factories from foreigners.
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 28 March 2016 18: 24
      0
      In our case, the will is needed. Marine diesel is not structurally as complicated as complex as a car diesel. You can copy without a license. Things are no worse with metal and casting than with China. Just the right hand needs ..., the left does not need .... And the license or not the license .... sneeze.
    2. Karlovar
      Karlovar 28 March 2016 20: 29
      0
      In all joint ventures with Western concerns (private) enterprises in China, 51%, at least, of shares for the Chinese state .... And before that there is also social sphere, VAT, income tax at 49% (max) lying with Western concerns. And before that there is also a salary for hard workers (increasing every year), purchases of components from suppliers-subcontractors (90% Chinese) .... So, the lion's share of the margin of Western corporations is very technically and democratically "squeezed" by the Chinese state, the Chinese people , the Chinese world (I'm not afraid of this word) ...
  28. Algetxnumx
    Algetxnumx 28 March 2016 17: 20
    0
    Quote: dgiguli1962
    Do you want to say Israel produces all the complex pieces of iron itself? Why such gloating?

    This is the meaning of his presence on this site, if, in short, I can of course be deployed, but they will be banned again. Here is this "prohessor", an eccentric, with the letter "", no, I will not, otherwise something "veiled" will be soldered again, " demons. "
  29. raze enemies
    raze enemies 28 March 2016 17: 52
    +2
    Such a huge state as Russia has 1/2 state borders and sea borders. But there is no tiny factory for the production of ship engines. Yes, and for what. Give the windmill to the fleet.
  30. Roman 11
    Roman 11 28 March 2016 20: 32
    0
    What about KTEU? THEY generally do ??

    At BEMZ, more than half of all nonsense is stamped on us - packages, corrugated packaging, etc. If anything, it is possible to expand the production of ship diesel engines, free the hulls - it’s better to buy Chinese rubbish, but they will have worthwhile things. From Siberia it’s always closer to transport than from China - we are already minus the costs !!
  31. Zomanus
    Zomanus 29 March 2016 00: 17
    +1
    Yes FIG knows ...
    We are still on the Chinese engines, during this time we’ll bring our minds to mind.
    You need to understand that for China, the protection of maritime borders is most critical.
    Therefore, they are developing in the field of shipbuilding and other things related to the Navy.
  32. afrikanez
    afrikanez 29 March 2016 00: 33
    0
    It's a shame of course. that their engines do not exist. Well, do not forget what "cesspool" the country has crawled out of, and even then not completely. So. that complaining is not worth it. Everything will be and that's for sure.
    1. Roman 11
      Roman 11 29 March 2016 17: 30
      0
      Quote: afrikanez
      Everything will be and that's for sure.

      No desire is visible ...... while appeals to heaven and petitions for oil prices!