Military Review

US missile defense system. 2-Part I

137
US missile defense system. 2-Part I



Next time about missile defense weapons in the USA they remembered in the early 80s when, after President Ronald Reagan came to power, a new round of the Cold War began. March 23, 1983 Reagan announced the start of work on the Strategic Defense Initiative (SDI) project. This project to defend US territory from Soviet ballistic missiles, also known as Star Wars, called for the use of anti-ballistic systems deployed on earth and in space. But unlike previous anti-missile programs based on interceptor missiles with nuclear warheads, this time the stake was on the development of weapons with other damaging factors. It was supposed to create a single global multicomponent system capable of repelling the attack of several thousand warheads of Soviet ICBMs in a short time interval.

The ultimate goal of the Star Wars program was to gain dominance in the near space and create an effective anti-missile "shield" to reliably cover the entire continental United States by deploying several echelons of space attack weapons on the way of the Soviet ICBMs capable of fighting ballistic missiles and their combat units on all phases of flight.

The main elements of the missile defense system were planned to be placed in space. For the destruction of a large number of targets, it was envisaged to use active weapons based on new physical principles: lasers, electromagnetic kinetic guns, beam weapons, as well as small-sized interceptors of kinetic action. The refusal of mass use of nuclear missile missiles was due to the need to preserve the operational state of the radar and optical detection and tracking. As is known, after nuclear explosions in space, an area impermeable to radar radiation is formed. And optical sensors of the cosmic component of the early warning system are likely to be disabled by an outbreak of a nearby nuclear explosion.

Subsequently, many analysts came to the conclusion that the Star Wars program was a global bluff, with the goal of drawing the Soviet Union into a new devastating arms race. Investigations within the framework of SDI have demonstrated that most of the proposed space-based weapons of destruction, for various reasons, could not be implemented in the near future or could be easily neutralized by relatively inexpensive asymmetric methods. In addition, in the second half of the 80s, the degree of tension in relations between the USSR and the USA significantly decreased, and the likelihood of a nuclear war decreased accordingly. All this led to the abandonment of the creation of an expensive global missile defense. After curtailing the SDI program as a whole, work in a number of the most promising and easily implemented areas continued.

In 1991, President George W. Bush - Sr. came up with a new concept of creating a national missile defense system (“Protection against limited strike”). Within the framework of this concept, it was intended to create a system capable of repelling the impact of a limited number of missiles. Officially, this was due to the increased risks of the proliferation of nuclear technologies after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

In turn, US President Bill Clinton 23 July 1999, signed a bill to develop the National Missile Defense (NMD). The need to create NMD in the United States was motivated by the “growing threat of rogue states creating long-range missiles capable of carrying weapons of mass destruction.” Apparently, it was then that the United States made a principled decision to withdraw from the 1972 Treaty of the year on limiting missile defense systems.

October 2 1999 in the United States conducted the first test of a prototype NMD, during which the Minuteman ICBM was intercepted over the Pacific Ocean. Three years later, in June 2002, the United States officially notified its withdrawal from the 1972 Treaty of the year to restrict anti-ballistic missile defense systems.

Working ahead of the curve, the Americans began upgrading the existing stations of the early warning system and building new ones. At the moment, in the interests of the NMD system, 11 of different types of radar stations are officially involved.


Placement of American Funds


AN / FPS-132 has the greatest potential in terms of the detection range and the number of escorted objects among the stationary radar radar detectors. These over-the-horizon radar stations are included in the SSPARS system (The Solid State Phased Array Radar System) - solid-state radar systems with a phased antenna array. The first radar of this system was AN / FPS-115. At present, almost all AN / FPS-115 stations are replaced by modern ones. One radar of this type in 2000, despite the protests of the PRC, was sold to Taiwan. The radar is installed in a mountainous area in Hsinchu County.


Google Earth Satellite Image: AN / FPS-115 Radar in Taiwan


Experts believe that Americans were selling "several birds with one stone" by selling AN / FPS-115 radar to Taipei - they were able to profitably attach, if not the newest, but still workable station. Without a doubt, Taiwan is broadcasting a “radar image” in real time in the United States, while paying for the cost of maintaining and maintaining the radar. The benefit of the Taiwanese side in this case is the ability to observe rocket launches and space objects over the territory of the PRC.

At the end of 80, the Americans replaced the SSPAR system with old SPRN stations in Greenland, not far from Thule airbase and in Great Britain in the town of Faylingdeyles. In 2000-s, these radars were upgraded to AN / FPS-132. A unique feature of the radar stationed in Faylingdeyls is the possibility of circular scanning of space, for which a third antenna mirror was added.


Radar ANS AN / FPS-132 in Greenland


On the territory of the United States, the radar anti-missile system AN / FPS-132 is located at Beale airbase in California. It is also planned to upgrade to this level the AN / FPS-123 radar at Clear Air Base, Alaska and Millstone Hill, in Massachusetts. Not so long ago it became known about the US intention to build an SSPAR radar system in Qatar.


Satellite image of Google earth: radar surveillance system AN / FPS-123 on the East Coast in Massachusetts


In addition to the radar SPRN system SSPAR at the disposal of the US military there are a number of stations of other types scattered around the world. On the territory of Norway, which is a member of NATO, there are two objects involved in observing space objects and rocket launches from the territory of Russia.


Radar Globus-II in Norway


In 1998, the AN / FPS-129 Have Stare radar, also known as Globus II, began operating near the Norwegian city of Vardø. The 200 kW radar has an antenna with a diameter of 27 m in a radome with a diameter of 35 m. According to statements by US representatives, its task is to collect information about "space debris" for the safety of space flight. However, the geographical location of this radar allows it to be used to track the launches of Russian missiles at the Plesetsk test site.

The location of Globus-II makes it possible to fill a gap in the geosynchronous radar tracking coverage between the Millstone Hill radar in Massachusetts and the ALTAIR radar on Kwajalein. Currently, work is underway to extend the resource of the AN / FPS-129 Have Stare radar in Vardø. It is assumed that this station will be operated at least until 2030 year.

Another "research" American object in Scandinavia is the radar complex EISCAT (eng. European Incoherent Scatter Scientific Association - European non-coherent joint research). The main radar EISCAT (ESR) is located on Svalbard not far from the Norwegian town of Longyearbyen. Additional receiving stations are available in Sodankylä in Finland and in Kiruna in Sweden. In 2008, the complex was upgraded, along with mobile parabolic antennas, a fixed antenna with a PAR.


Google Earth Satellite Image: EISCAT Radar


The EISCAT complex was also created to monitor “space debris” and monitor objects in low earth orbit. It is part of the European Space Agency's Space Awareness Program (SSA). Being a “dual-use” object, the radar complex in the north of Europe, along with civilian research, can be used for measurements during test launches of ICBMs and missile defense systems.

On the Pacific direction, the US Anti-Ballistic Missile Defense Agency has four radars capable of tracking the combat units of ICBMs and targeting missile defense systems.

A powerful radar complex was built on the Kwajalein Atoll, where the American Barking Sands anti-missile test range is located. The most modern radar of the various types of long-range stations available here is the GBR-P. It is involved in the program of creating NMD. The GBR-P radar has a radiated power of 170 kW and an antenna area of ​​123 m².


GBR-P radar under construction


The GBR-P radar was commissioned in the 1998 year. According to data published in open sources, the confirmed detection range of ICBM warheads is at least 2000 km. At 2016, the GBR-P radar is scheduled to be upgraded, an increase in radiated power is planned, which, in turn, will lead to an increase in detection range and resolution. Currently, the GBR-P radar is involved in providing missile defense for US military facilities in Hawaii. According to statements by US officials, the deployment of interceptor missiles in this remote region is associated with the threat of North Korea’s nuclear missile strikes.

In the distant 1969 year, in the western part of the Pacific atoll Kwajalein, a powerful radar complex ALTAIR was commissioned. The Kvalzhalein radar complex is part of a large-scale ARPA project (the Advanced Research Agency - Tracking and Identification in the Far Distance via Radar). Over the past 46 years, the value of this object for the control system for space objects and the USSA has only increased. In addition, without this radar complex at the Barking Sands range, it would be impossible to conduct full-fledged tests of anti-missile systems.

ALTAIR is also unique in that it is the only radar in the Space Observation Network with an equatorial location; it can track one third of objects in the geostationary belt. Each year, the radar complex makes about 42000 trajectory measurements in space. In addition to monitoring the near-Earth space using radar from Kwajalein, research and monitoring of deep space is being conducted. The ALTAIR capabilities allow you to track and measure the parameters of research spacecraft sent to other planets and comets and asteroids approaching the Earth. So after launching to Jupiter with the help of ALTAIR, the Galileo apparatus was monitored.

The peak power of the radar is 5 MW and the average radiated power is 250 kW. According to data published by the US Department of Defense, the accuracy of determining coordinates in near-earth orbit of metal objects with an area of ​​1 m² is from 5 to 15 meters.


ALTAIR radar complex


In 1982, the radar was seriously upgraded, and in 1998, the complex included digital analysis equipment and high-speed data exchange with other objects of EWS. To transmit information to the command center of the Hawaiian Islands Air Defense Zones on Guam Island from Kwajalein Atoll, a protected fiber optic cable was installed.

For the timely detection of attacking ballistic missiles and the issuance of targeting missile defense systems several years ago mobile radar with AFAR - SBX was put into operation. This station is installed on a self-propelled floating platform and is designed to detect and track space objects, including high-speed and small-sized ones. A missile defense radar on a self-propelled platform can be quickly relocated to any part of the world's oceans. This is a significant advantage of mobile radar over fixed stations, whose radius of action is limited by the curvature of the earth's surface.


SBX floating radar


On the platform, in addition to the main radar with AFAR operating in the X-band with a radio-transparent dome with a diameter of 31 meter, there are several auxiliary antennas. The elements of the main antenna are mounted on a flat octagonal plate, it can rotate 270 degrees horizontally and change the angle of inclination within 0 - 85 degrees. According to data published in the media, the target detection range with an 1 ESR ERS is over 4 000 km, the radiated power is 135 kW.

In the port of Adak in Alaska, a special berth for the SBX radar was erected with the appropriate infrastructure and life support systems. It is assumed that the SBX, being in this place, will be in combat duty, controlling the western missile-prone direction and issue, if necessary, target designation to the American antimissile systems deployed in Alaska.

In 2004, a prototype J / FPS-5 radar was built in Japan on Honshu Island for research in the field of missile defense. The station is capable of fixing ballistic missiles at a range of about 2000 km. At present, five radar stations of this type are operating on the Japanese islands.


Location of the J / FPS-3 and J / FPS-5 radars in Japan


Prior to the commissioning of J / FPS-5 stations, radar with J / FPS-3 phased array in dome-shaped protective fairings was used to track missile launches in nearby areas. Detection range J / FPS-3 - 400 km. At present, they are reoriented to air defense tasks, but in case of emergency, early model radars can be used to detect enemy warheads and issue target designation to missile defense systems.


J / FPS-5 radar


The J / FPS-5 radar has a very unusual design. For the characteristic shape of a radiotransparent vertical dome, the 34 meter-high construction in Japan received the nickname “Turtle”. Under the "tortoise shell" is placed three antennas with a diameter of 12-18 meters. It is reported that using the J / FPS-5 radar located on the Japanese islands, it was possible to track the launches of ballistic missiles from Russian strategic submarine cruisers in polar latitudes.

According to the official Japanese version, the construction of the missile attack warning system stations is linked to the missile threat coming from North Korea. However, the placement of such a large number of radar stations by the threat from the DPRK cannot be explained. Although the J / FPS-5 radar is operated by the Japanese military, information from them is continuously transmitted via satellite channels to the US Missile Defense Agency. In 2010, Japan commissioned the Yokota missile defense command post, which is operated jointly by the two countries. All this in combination with the plans to deploy the US SM-3 interceptor missiles on Japanese destroyers of the Atago and Congo type indicates that the US is trying to make Japan the forward line of its missile defense system.

The adoption and deployment of the THAAD antimissile system required the creation of a mobile radar with an AFAR AN / TPY-2. This rather compact station, operating in the X-band, is designed to detect tactical and operational-tactical ballistic missiles, escorting and targeting missile interceptors. Like many other modern anti-missile radar, it was created by Raytheon. To date, 12 radar stations of this type have already been built. Some of them are located outside the United States, aware of the deployment of AN / TPY-2 radars in Israel on Mount Keren in the Negev Desert, in Turkey at the Kuretzhik base, in Qatar at the Udeidah air base and in Japan in Okinawa.


Radar AN / TPY-2


Transportation radar AN / TPY-2 possible by air and sea transport, as well as in towed form on public roads. With the detection range of 1000 km warheads and 10-60 ° scanning angle of the site, this station has good resolution enough to highlight the target against the background of debris from previously destroyed missiles and separated stages. According to Raytheon advertising information, the AN / TPY-2 radar can be used not only in conjunction with the THAAD complex, but also as part of other anti-missile systems.

One of the key elements of a ground-based missile defense system planned for deployment in Europe is the Aegis Ashore radar. This model is a land version of the AN / SPY-1 naval radar, coupled with combat elements of the Aegis BMD system. The AN / SPY-1 phased array radar is capable of detecting and tracking small targets as well as targeting interceptor missiles.

The main developer of ground-based radar missile defense Aegis Ashore is the corporation Lockheed Martin. The Aegis Ashore design is based on the latest version of the Aegis marine system, but many auxiliary systems have been simplified to save money.


Radar Aegis Ashore on Kauai


The first ground-based radar Aegis Ashore in April 2015 was put into trial operation in April 2015 on the island of Kauai, near the atoll of Kwajalein. Its construction in this place is connected with the need to develop the ground-based missile defense component and with the testing of the SM-3 interceptor missiles at the Baring Sands missile test site in the Pacific.

Plans have been announced for the construction of similar stations in the United States in Moorstown, New Jersey, as well as in Romania, Poland, the Czech Republic and Turkey. The most advanced work at the Air Force base in Deveselu in southern Romania. The construction of the Aegis Ashore radar and the launch sites for interceptor missiles is completed here.


American missile defense facility Aegis Ashore in Deveselu at the final stage of construction


The Aegis Ashore radar four-story ground-structure superstructure is made of steel, its mass exceeds 900 tons. Most of the elements of the anti-missile facility are modular. All elements of the system were pre-assembled and tested in the US, and only then transported and mounted in Deveselu. In order to save money, the software, with the exception of communication functions, almost completely corresponds to the ship version.

In December, 2015, the ceremony of handing over the technical complex to the US missile defense agency took place Currently, the radar facility in Deveselu is working in test mode, but does not carry combat duty. It is expected that in the first half of 2016, the first part of the European segment of the missile defense system will be finally put into operation. The management of anti-missile operations is planned to be carried out from the operational center at the American Ramstein Air Base in Germany. The means of fire destruction of the complex should be the 24 anti-missiles "Standard-3" mod. 1B.

Also in the near future it is planned to build a similar facility in Poland in the area of ​​Redzikovo. According to the American plans, its commissioning should take place before the end of 2018. In contrast to the Romanian object, the anti-missile complex in Redzikovo is planned to be equipped with the new Standard-3 antimissiles mod. 2A.

To record the fact of the launch of ballistic missiles from the territory of countries possessing rocket technologies, and to bring the missile defense system in a timely manner into combat readiness in the United States, a program is being implemented to monitor the earth's surface based on new-generation spacecraft. Work on the creation of the SBIRS system (born Space-Based Infrared System - Space-based Infrared System) began in the middle of the 90-s. The implementation of the program was supposed to end in 2010 year. The first SBIRS-GEO satellite, GEO-1, was launched in 2011. As of 2015 year, only two geostationary satellites and two upper echelon satellites in elliptical orbits were put into orbit. By 2010, the cost of implementing the SBIRS program has already exceeded 11 billion.



At present, the SBIRS spacecraft are operated in parallel with the satellites of the existing SPRN system - DSP (eng. Defense Support Program). The DSP program started in the 70-ies as an early warning system for launches of intercontinental ballistic missiles.


Google Earth Satellite Image: SBIRS Satellite Control Center at Buckley Air Base


The SBIRS satellite constellation will consist of at least 20 continuously operating spacecraft. With the help of infrared sensors of a new generation, they should not only fix the launch of ICBMs less than 20 seconds after launch, but also carry out preliminary trajectory measurements and identify warheads and decoys in the middle section of the trajectory. The satellite constellation will be managed from control centers at Buckley Air Base and at Sriver Air Base in Colorado.

Thus, with the practically formed ground-based radar component of the missile attack warning system, the space component of the national missile defense under construction is still behind schedule. This is partly due to the fact that the appetites of the American military-industrial complex turned out to be more opportunities for a huge defense budget. In addition, not everything is smooth with the possibilities of placing heavy spacecraft into orbit. After the Space Shuttle program was closed, NASA’s US space agency was forced to attract private aerospace companies on commercial launch vehicles to launch military satellites.

Commissioning of the main elements of the missile defense system should be completed by 2025 year. By that time, in addition to building an orbital constellation, it is planned to complete the deployment of interceptor missiles, but this will be discussed in the third part of the review.

To be continued ...

Based on:
http://www.designation-systems.net/dusrm/index.html
http://www.globalsecurity.org/space/systems/havestare.htm
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/index.html
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/antpy-2-ground-radar-07533/
http://army-news.ru/2015/06/nachaty-ispytaniya-pervogo-obekta-pro-v-rumynii/
https://www.spaceflightnow.com/atlas/av037/geofactsheet.pdf
ttp: //fas.org/spp/military/program/nssrm/initiatives/altair.htm
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US missile defense system. 1-Part I
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  1. Amurets
    Amurets 29 March 2016 07: 16
    +6
    Sergey! Hi. Impressive. Excellent review. Sergey! Question: Are we not helping the Americans much in creating this satellite constellation by selling RD-180 engines? And then there's the "fun news". It’s naming for our government. This is RIA. News, but there are also other sources.
    http://ria.ru/economy/20160328/1398702736.html
    1. Bongo
      29 March 2016 10: 18
      +6
      Quote: Amurets
      Sergey! Hello. Impressive. The review is wonderful.

      Hi Nikolay! Thank! drinks
      Quote: Amurets
      Question? Are we not helping the Americans much in creating this satellite constellation by selling RD-180 engines?

      We help of course, but in this case they would have managed without our engines. Perhaps the launches would have been more expensive. Now a lot of private space companies have sprung up in the United States; they use both self-developed missiles and retired ICBMs.
      Quote: Amurets
      Snoops on our government. This is RIA. News, but there are other sources.
      http://ria.ru/economy/20160328/1398702736.html

      Ulyukaev discussed with Tefft the participation of US companies in privatization in Russia

      Nikolay, do you sincerely think that some kind of Ulyukaev solves such issues? No. as well as pumping "extra" budget funds into US securities. negative Let's call a spade a spade - traitors rule the country.
      1. Amurets
        Amurets 29 March 2016 12: 26
        +2
        Quote: Bongo
        call things by their proper names - traitors rule the country.

        So I'm talking about the same thing. Ulyukaev is a talking head. They elected Pamfilova as the chairman of the CEC, but I don’t think that will change anything from this. Apparently they are trying to calm the stormy sea. Yesterday they were scandalous about the economic policy of Moscow, on the branch "Satisfied with the ruins of Brussels", so a bunch of red I caught the likes.
      2. clidon
        clidon 29 March 2016 21: 25
        +2
        Let's call a spade a spade - traitors rule the country.

        The country is run by self-centered pragmatists. For whom "all there" statehood is rather an instrument than an end in itself.
        1. Bongo
          30 March 2016 05: 35
          +4
          Quote: clidon
          The country is led by egocentric pragmatists.

          The country is not led by pragmatists, No. And those who think about their own momentary good more than about the future of the country.
          1. Falcon
            Falcon 30 March 2016 07: 58
            +2
            Quote: Bongo
            The country is not led by pragmatists, but those who think about their momentary good more than the future of the country.


            I would allow myself to rephrase - only about my own good, and not about the future of the country.
          2. clidon
            clidon 30 March 2016 15: 54
            +1
            They care about Russia. But under the motto - "good for me, good for the country."
      3. SETSET
        SETSET 14 May 2019 10: 38
        0
        I completely agree with you - the country is ruled by traitors of all stripes!
  2. Falcon
    Falcon 29 March 2016 08: 24
    +2
    Interesting as always!

    SBIRS is essentially the further development of DSP?
    They already did not cope badly, as far as I understand, it was they who determined the launches of our calibers.
    1. andj61
      andj61 29 March 2016 08: 47
      -1
      Quote: Falcon
      SBIRS is essentially the further development of DSP?
      They already did not cope badly, as far as I understand, it was they who determined the launches of our calibers.

      Determined ... laughing Only now, both the military and US diplomats learned about these launches for some reason only from media reports ... request Therefore, as they say, determined, determined, but not determined. bully hi
    2. Bongo
      29 March 2016 10: 29
      +6
      Quote: Falcon
      Interesting as always!

      Thank you, Cyril!
      Quote: Falcon
      SBIRS is essentially the further development of DSP?

      Yes, but only in part. The functions of SBIRS are much wider.
      Quote: Falcon
      They already did not cope badly, as far as I understand, it was they who determined the launches of our calibers.

      Frankly, I have big doubts that with the help of a satellite designed to fix an ICBM torch, it is possible to effectively detect the launch of a missile with thermal signature comparable to an aircraft engine.


      Here, a visual reconnaissance satellite is more likely to be able to take such images and transmit them in real time.
      1. Falcon
        Falcon 29 March 2016 12: 36
        +1
        Quote: Bongo

        Frankly, I have big doubts that with the help of a satellite designed to fix an ICBM torch, it is possible to effectively detect the launch of a missile with thermal signature comparable to an aircraft engine.


        Figs knows him. They stated that they saw flashes when ours launched Caliber.
        Visual intelligence probably doesn’t cover this distance. request If only you know in advance where they will let me go. recourse So I guessed.

        Maybe they go crazy request
        1. Bongo
          29 March 2016 12: 40
          +3
          Quote: Falcon
          Figs knows him. They stated that they saw flashes when ours launched Caliber.
          Visual reconnaissance probably doesn’t cover such a distance. So I guessed.

          Maybe they go crazy

          Maybe they make a mistake, and maybe they tracked the flight of our bombers.
          In any case, the "flash" of the CR engine is comparable to the thermal signature of a bomber.
        2. region58
          region58 29 March 2016 20: 23
          +2
          Quote: Falcon
          They stated that they saw flashes when ours launched Caliber.

          So when starting there is a powder accelerator. Marching engine then turns on. It could well be tracked outbreaks.
          1. Falcon
            Falcon 29 March 2016 21: 48
            0
            Quote: region58
            So when starting there is a powder accelerator.


            I agree, I also thought about it yes
  3. Old26
    Old26 29 March 2016 09: 46
    +3
    Sergey, thanks for the new series. Soon you will probably have to make up a book with your materials good
    1. Amurets
      Amurets 29 March 2016 10: 03
      +2
      Quote: Old26
      Sergey, thanks for the new series. Soon you will probably have to make up a book with your materials

      Volodya! I told him about three months ago. No, he doesn’t find the publisher, who needs it? A bunch of reasons.
    2. Bongo
      29 March 2016 10: 37
      +6
      Quote: Old26
      Sergey, thanks for the new series. Soon you will probably have to make up a book with your materials

      Quote: Amurets
      Volodya! I told him about three months ago. No, he doesn’t find the publisher, who needs it? A bunch of reasons.

      Guys, thanks for the kind words, but this is for me, fun, well, a little extra extra. Unfortunately, paper books are gradually becoming obsolete, and hardly anyone can agree to pay for something that can be easily found on the Internet. What has got into the network, consider that you do not belong anymore.
  4. Operator
    Operator 29 March 2016 09: 58
    -1
    Over-the-horizon radars in Norway, Romania, Poland, Japan and South Korea are the targets of a priority nuclear strike by Russia and China, detonating charges in the upper atmosphere to generate EMP and create ionized clouds over radar positions. The flight time of Ikander-M will be from 5 to 9 minutes. After that, it will be possible to fly over the radar positions of ICBM warheads without determining their coordinates and aiming missile defense missiles.

    Therefore, the placement of stationary over-the-horizon radars near the borders of a potential enemy works only in peacetime conditions - to track test launches and intercept single ballistic missiles.

    In the context of a large-scale nuclear missile conflict, for the purpose of warning and interception, stationary over-the-horizon radars located in the depths of their territory and mobile over-the-horizon radars, which are part of the S-400, S-500, THAAD, and Aegis air defense / missile systems, will be used.
    1. Amurets
      Amurets 29 March 2016 10: 11
      0
      Quote: Operator

      Therefore, the placement of stationary over-the-horizon radars near the borders of a potential enemy works only in peacetime conditions - to track test launches and intercept single ballistic missiles.

      How correctly did I understand you, they serve only for the purpose of collecting information, that is, intelligence?
      1. Operator
        Operator 29 March 2016 11: 05
        -1
        And to intercept single missiles - for example, in the case of unauthorized launches.
      2. mav1971
        mav1971 29 March 2016 12: 39
        +4
        Quote: Amurets

        How correctly did I understand you, they serve only for the purpose of collecting information, that is, intelligence?


        Do not listen to him.
        First, most of the "emitting" objects are located at a distance of over 700 km from our borders.
        In addition to the single Redsikovo, to which from Kaliningrad 220km.
        And the Iskanders will not close them in 5 minutes. Well, Iskander-Ms do not fly yet at 600-700 km.

        Those. they have enough time to fix both starts and target designation in time.
        1. Operator
          Operator 29 March 2016 13: 02
          -1
          Of course, our "Klaby" also did not fly 1600 km wink
    2. Bongo
      29 March 2016 10: 42
      +6
      Quote: Operator
      Over-the-horizon radars in Norway, Romania, Poland, Japan and South Korea are targets of a top-priority nuclear strike by Russia and China

      Of course, but in a significant part of the US SARS radar is located outside the range of the Iskander.

      Quote: Operator
      and mobile over-the-horizon radars included in the S-400, S-500, THAAD and Aegis air defense / missile systems.


      Regarding the S-400 air defense surveillance radar, I would not be so optimistic, for the most part it is still an anti-aircraft system, the anti-missile capabilities of the S-400 and Patriot air defense missile systems are very modest. And it's too early to talk about the S-500 ... THAAD is also mainly designed to combat OTP.
      1. Operator
        Operator 29 March 2016 11: 29
        0
        All stationary over-the-horizon US radars located outside the range of Iskander-M (when equipped with light special warheads) are capable of detecting warheads of Russian ICBMs after disengaging the blocks and releasing decoys. Those. these radars are also not suitable for transatmospheric interception of BB without the use of thermonuclear charges with a capacity of one megaton.

        The United States has one opportunity to at least partially protect its continental territory from a layered nuclear missile strike - to reanimate Safegard.

        In other words, all of Eurasia with the adjacent islands is a zone of military control of Russia and China. There will be no convoy shipments from America to Europe, Japan, and the Middle East to TMV. Butting can only happen for Africa, South America and Australia (if anyone is interested).
        1. Bongo
          29 March 2016 11: 38
          +4
          Quote: Operator
          All stationary US over-the-horizon radars located outside the range of Iskander-M (including when equipped with light special warheads) are capable of detecting warheads of Russian ICBMs only after the blocks are disengaged and false targets are released. Those. these radars are also not suitable for transatmospheric interception of BB without the use of thermonuclear charges with a capacity of one megaton.


          The radar stations in Thula and in Filingdales are also outside the Iskander's radius. To defeat them, we need MRBMs, which we do not intend to reanimate yet. In addition, do not forget about the SBIRS satellite system, which is currently under construction.
          Quote: Operator
          The United States has only one opportunity to at least partially protect its continental territory from a layered nuclear missile strike - to reanimate Safegard.

          Do you sincerely believe in this? No. Read the first, there, in my opinion, the reasons why the USA abandoned this system are quite intelligibly stated.
          1. Operator
            Operator 29 March 2016 12: 21
            0
            Radars in Greenland and Britain will see only a cloud of false targets in which the BB hid. Those. these radars are only suitable for warning.

            The reason for freezing the local Safegard missile defense system in another is that it is absolutely useless to repulse a massive nuclear missile strike against the vast majority of US government, military-industrial complex and US infrastructure in the event of a massive nuclear missile attack, even in the form of a retaliatory strike.

            Domestic local missile defense system "Amur" was originally intended to achieve a rational goal - gaining time for the evacuation of the country's leadership and armed forces to a protected area in the event first strike in the capital with medium-range ballistic missiles with a short approach time (when launched first from Turkey and from the Mediterranean and North Seas, and then from Europe).
            1. Bongo
              29 March 2016 12: 30
              +5
              Quote: Operator
              Radars in Greenland and Britain will see only a cloud of false targets in which the BB hid. Those. these radars are only suitable for warning.

              The location of these radars allows us to fix our ICBMs still on the ascending branch of the trajectory before the separation of warheads.
              Quote: Operator
              The reason for freezing the local Safegard missile defense system in another is that it is absolutely useless to repulse a massive nuclear missile strike against the vast majority of government, military-industrial complex and U.S. infrastructure in the event of a massive nuclear missile attack, even in the form of a retaliatory strike.

              What kind of resuscitation Safegard then can we talk about?
              Quote: Operator
              The domestic local missile defense system "Amur" was originally intended to achieve a rational goal - to gain time for the evacuation of the country's leadership and the armed forces to a protected area in the event of a first strike on the capital by medium-range ballistic missiles with a short arrival time.

              The Amur system will not withstand a massive strike No. And it is unlikely that during the approach of the ICBM someone will have time to evacuate, in extreme cases, you can manage to hide in shelters.
              In addition, the long-range interceptors of the Moscow missile defense system with megaton warheads from the mines were unloaded.
              As already mentioned during a nuclear explosion in space, a plasma cloud is formed opaque to radar radiation, for this reason the Americans switched to the concept of kinetic interception.
              1. Operator
                Operator 29 March 2016 12: 45
                -1
                Where did you get the data on the moment of breeding the "Sarmat" and "Rubezh" BBs? wink

                So no one argues with the futility of the Safegard concept, only the benefits of the Cupid concept are discussed.

                The Amur missile defense system has several dozen anti-missile silos - quite enough to repel a massive strike on the capital. Or do you think that several hundred BBs will be involved in the strike?

                If non-nuclear warheads such as unfolding metal spirals are placed on atmospheric interception missiles, then no plasma clouds in the air above the radar positions will arise.
                And the radioactive fragments of the BB flying to the surface of the earth do not prevent the evacuation of a limited contingent of people in the sealed salons of cars, metro trains and helicopters.
                1. Bongo
                  29 March 2016 12: 56
                  +3
                  Quote: Operator
                  Where did you get the data on the moment of breeding the "Sarmat" and "Rubezh" BBs?

                  And they are massively in service? No. I do not think that the ascending branch of the trajectory of new missiles and the moment of separation of warheads are very different from existing ICBMs. Data on them is in open sources - look and find out.
                  Quote: Operator
                  The Amur missile defense system has several dozen anti-missile silos - quite enough to repel a massive strike on the capital. Or do you think that several hundred BBs will be involved in the strike?

                  You forgot to add that this is a near-missile interceptor.

                  Quote: Operator
                  If non-nuclear warheads such as unfolding metal spirals are placed on atmospheric interception missiles, then no plasma clouds in the air above the radar positions will arise.

                  Let's talk about what is actually and will not deal with the alternative. No. Alternative - on other sites. hi
                  1. Operator
                    Operator 29 March 2016 13: 05
                    -1
                    I do not have your data on Sarmatians, Boundaries and Amures bully
                    1. Vadim237
                      Vadim237 29 March 2016 15: 40
                      0
                      Here about the Amur missile defense system in detail -http: //militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-345.html
              2. Vadim237
                Vadim237 29 March 2016 15: 23
                +1
                Theoretically, the A 135 missile defense system can intercept 46 warheads, but the new A 235 Nudol is most likely 2 - 3 times more if it includes 10 divisions With 500.
                1. Bongo
                  29 March 2016 15: 26
                  +4
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  Theoretically, the A 135 missile defense system can intercept 46 warheads, but the new A 235 Nudol is most likely 2 - 3 times more if it includes 10 divisions With 500.

                  Vadim is Wishlist No. In reality, productivity is many times less. How do you propose to solve the problem of not visible zones in space after a nuclear explosion? About C-500, I propose to speak after it will be adopted.
                  1. Vadim237
                    Vadim237 29 March 2016 15: 36
                    +1
                    I’m speaking theoretically, about unvisited zones, this requires satellites with radars and optical instruments, with high resolution, but they are not in the armament of the SPRN and will appear in the near future.
                    1. Bongo
                      29 March 2016 15: 39
                      +3
                      Quote: Vadim237
                      I say theoretically

                      Is this 2-3 warheads per day for a month? wassat Who needs such theories? No.
                      Quote: Vadim237
                      As for the unobserved zones, this requires satellites with radars and optical instruments, with high resolution, but they are not in the armament of the SPRN and will appear in the near future.

                      Here I am about the same ... yes Let's be realistic. soldier
                      1. Vadim237
                        Vadim237 29 March 2016 16: 36
                        +1
                        Is this 2-3 warheads per day for a month? No, these are 46 warheads for 5 minutes, along with false warheads.
                      2. Bongo
                        30 March 2016 05: 41
                        +4
                        Quote: Vadim237
                        Is this 2-3 warheads per day for a month? No, these are 46 warheads for 5 minutes, along with false warheads.

                        For a number of reasons, this is not real. No.False targets by that time will be decelerated in the atmosphere and eliminated by themselves. Although the near-range missiles are "smeared" over the area, taking into account the shielding effect of air nuclear explosions and the fact that at least two antimissiles will be targeted at one warhead, the number of intercepted warheads is several times less. Make no illusions.
              3. Operator
                Operator 29 March 2016 16: 00
                -1
                Quite right - but only if atmospheric non-nuclear warheads are used (high-explosive fragmentation and kinetic spatial spiral type).

                Non-nuclear warheads do not ionize the air, and a targeted detonation of an enemy nuclear warhead over the position of a missile defense radar can occur no lower than the line of interception of anti-ballistic missiles. The horizontal illumination of enemy warheads before the passage of the plasma cloud will be made by S-500 radar.

                Stationary Ground-Based Midcourse Defense sucks, mobile C-500 steers am
                1. mav1971
                  mav1971 29 March 2016 19: 38
                  +3
                  Quote: Operator

                  Stationary Ground-Based Midcourse Defense sucks, mobile C-500 steers am


                  C-500 does not exist ...
                  R&D will not end before 2018.
                  And given the global reduction in funding for absolutely all GosZakaz programs, God forbid we will see a transfer to production by 2020.

                  You, change your nickname.
                  Add "45cm in the morning!"
                  Well ... So that the people who read you immediately understand that they are reading Murzilka’s work ...
                  1. Operator
                    Operator 29 March 2016 20: 31
                    -2
                    "Do not tell me what to do, and I will not tell you where to go" (C)

                    11 December 2015 of the year, RIA News
                    State tests of S-500 air defense systems began
                    http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20151211/1340323272.html

                    PS Did you have electricity in your village in January 2016? laughing
                    1. Falcon
                      Falcon 29 March 2016 21: 58
                      +3
                      Quote: Operator
                      11 December 2015 of the year, RIA News
                      State tests of S-500 air defense systems began


                      At 2015, it seems on bmpt, there was an interview with the director of diamond-antey. You can try to find. He said that C-500 is still not in the gland.

                      I would also like to remind you that the military, probably with 2014, say that this year the T-50 will go into series. Every year the song is repeated.

                      Quote: Operator
                      Stationary Ground-Based Midcourse Defense sucks, mobile C-500 steers


                      It’s a controversial point, since c-500 doesn’t understand anything at all. All the existing SAMs in the Russian Federation are already attributed to her. Almost from MANPADS to analogue a-135.
                      With regards to the radar, they said that it will see up to 600 km. Well then not only does GBMD fail to "win" until THAAD falls short. So, what I think is true, in the open access on the S-500 percent 10 ...
                    2. Operator
                      Operator 29 March 2016 22: 31
                      -3
                      I am not an information agency, I will not insist on the announced dates for passing the C-500 state tests.
                      Comparing GBMD with C-500, I had in mind a fundamental point - the stationarity (and hence the initial fame of coordinates) of the first and mobility (unknown of coordinates) of the second.

                      As for the T-50, everything will be decided this year. And "Armata", for example, is already in the experimental series - Chemizov (C).

                      The pace of songs accelerates laughing
                    3. Falcon
                      Falcon 30 March 2016 08: 03
                      +2
                      Quote: Operator
                      Comparing GBMD with C-500, I had in mind a fundamental point - the stationarity (and hence the initial fame of coordinates) of the first and mobility (unknown of coordinates) of the second.


                      I agree with you, but then it is more correct to compare the C-500 radar with the AN / TPY-2 radar ...

                      Quote: Operator
                      As for the T-50, everything will be decided this year.


                      I heard the same thing in the past winked

                      Quote: Operator
                      And "Armata", for example, is already in the experimental series - Chemizov (C).


                      God grant that it be so. While I am not inclined to trust the messages of our media.
                    4. Bongo
                      30 March 2016 08: 45
                      +4
                      Quote: Falcon
                      I heard the same thing in the past

                      For 10 years we have been fed breakfasts about new long-range missiles for C-400. Each year, senior military officials and government figures frowning menacingly that the missiles are completing the tests and are about to begin to be delivered to the troops. And nothing has changed... negative
                    5. Operator
                      Operator 30 March 2016 10: 57
                      -3
                      The AN / TPY-2 radar is part of the specialized THAAD missile defense system, the missiles of which are equipped with atmospheric kinetic interceptors of ballistic targets (THAAD is convenient to shoot with cruise missiles laughing ).

                      The S-500 air defense / missile defense universal complex is equipped with fragmentation warheads suitable for both atmospheric and atmospheric interception of ballistic, aeroballistic and aerodynamic targets.

                      From the point of view of the capabilities of the complex, the C-500 radar steers in comparison with AN / TPY-2.
                    6. Bongo
                      30 March 2016 11: 07
                      +6
                      Quote: Operator
                      From the point of view of the capabilities of the complex, the C-500 radar steers in comparison with AN / TPY-2.

                      It will not be difficult for you to publish the characteristics of the S-500 "radar" so that everyone can really make sure that it "rules".
                    7. Operator
                      Operator 30 March 2016 11: 51
                      -1
                      The detection range of the C-500 radar with a probability of 0.95 of a ballistic missile warhead with an EPR of 0.1 square meters is 1300 km
                      http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-373.htm
                    8. Bongo
                      30 March 2016 12: 00
                      +6
                      Quote: Operator
                      The detection range of the C-500 radar with a probability of 0.95 of a ballistic missile warhead with an EPR of 0.1 square meters is 1300 km
                      http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-373.htm

                      Why didn't you give a link to the Murzilka magazine? negative AN / TPY-2 radar data can be found on the manufacturer’s website. And scooping up information from those sources to which you refer - do not expose yourself in too bright a light. No.
                    9. Operator
                      Operator 30 March 2016 13: 23
                      -1
                      From this moment in more detail, please - where on the manufacturer's website AN / TPY-2 can you find its range, the probability of defeat and the EPR of the target?
                    10. Falcon
                      Falcon 30 March 2016 14: 19
                      +2
                      Quote: Operator
                      From this moment in more detail, please - where on the manufacturer's website AN / TPY-2 can you find its range, the probability of defeat and the EPR of the target?

                    11. Bongo
                      30 March 2016 14: 31
                      +4
                      Quote: Falcon
                      Shuttle collision with garbage - nothing survived. Because shrapnel will be scattered.

                      Damn such a talent disappears in a person, he would have to design anti-missile warheads, which they only cost:
                      Quote: Operator
                      kinetic spatial spiral type

                      Hi, Kirill! Finish the discussion already, unfortunately the "Operator" is apparently able to operate only with his own fantasies, although he is certainly far from Cassander. lol
                    12. Falcon
                      Falcon 30 March 2016 14: 35
                      +2
                      Quote: Bongo
                      Hi, Kirill! Finish the discussion already, unfortunately the "Operator" is apparently able to operate only with his own fantasies, although he is certainly far from Cassander.


                      Hello, Sergey!
                      Yes comes up with a lot. yes The paralay forum is full of such
                    13. Bongo
                      30 March 2016 14: 45
                      +4
                      Guess what it is?
                    14. Falcon
                      Falcon 30 March 2016 14: 51
                      0
                      Quote: Bongo
                      Guess what it is?


                      Sounds like a patriot?
                    15. Bongo
                      30 March 2016 14: 52
                      +3
                      Quote: Falcon
                      Sounds like a patriot?

                      Not quite lol
                      And what are your thoughts on this?
                    16. Falcon
                      Falcon 30 March 2016 14: 59
                      +2
                      Quote: Bongo
                      Not quite


                      I am confused by the two containers on top. Thaad is still divided into xnumx pcs on top



                    17. Bongo
                      30 March 2016 15: 04
                      +4
                      Quote: Falcon
                      I am confused by the two containers on top. Thaad is still divided into xnumx pcs on top

                      Different launcher options, here's an early one:

                      And here is the one that went later:
                  2. Falcon
                    Falcon 30 March 2016 15: 04
                    +1
                    Quote: Bongo
                    And what are your thoughts on this?


                    It's easier here - thaad
                  3. Bongo
                    30 March 2016 15: 08
                    +3
                    Quote: Falcon
                    It's easier here - thaad

                    And how do you like it? I don’t like it at all, and the North Koreans are probably even more.
                  4. Falcon
                    Falcon 30 March 2016 15: 22
                    +2
                    Quote: Bongo
                    And how do you like it? I don’t like it at all, and the North Koreans are probably even more.


                    Sounds like Ground-Based Midcourse Defense
                  5. Bongo
                    30 March 2016 15: 27
                    +4
                    Quote: Falcon
                    Sounds like Ground-Based Midcourse Defense

                    yes good It is the most! But on the west coast at Vandenberg airbase, they are located differently. For placement of anti-ballistic missiles use silos "Minitman-3.
    3. Operator
      Operator 30 March 2016 14: 44
      -3
      Based on the declared target range for a THAAD-like radar of target detection with an EPR of 0,5 sq.m at a distance of 1080 km (in terms of), it looks quite comparable in comparison with the C-500 radar, whose claimed range (according to various sources) is from 600 to 1300 km for the target with EPR 0,1 sq.m.

      By the way, what kind of data source for THAAD-like radar?
    4. Falcon
      Falcon 30 March 2016 14: 47
      +2
      Quote: Operator
      By the way, what kind of data source for THAAD-like radar?


      Science and global security
    5. Operator
      Operator 30 March 2016 15: 40
      -1
      No web link?
    6. Falcon
      Falcon 30 March 2016 15: 56
      +1
      Quote: Operator
      No web link?


      http://scienceandglobalsecurity.org/archive/2003/05/thaad-like_high_altitude_the
      at.html
  5. Falcon
    Falcon 30 March 2016 11: 07
    +2
    Quote: Operator
    THAAD is convenient to shoot cruise missiles


    Forgive me, but this is some kind of verbiage, and what the hell is this ??? Or will he stand alone in the open field? Well, it’s convenient to shoot tanks from anti-tank systems and so what? And C-500 can be shot from a sniper rifle, from several hundred meters IIIII? negative

    Quote: Operator
    The universal air defense / missile defense system S-500 is equipped with fragmentation warheads suitable for both atmospheric


    I wonder how the explosion of the fragmentation part is suitable for inter-atmospheric interception? So far, only Yao and the kinetic principle have been used for this.

    Quote: Operator
    From the point of view of the capabilities of the complex, the C-500 radar steers in comparison with AN / TPY-2.


    From the point of view of 600km of data, in comparison with AN / TPY-2 it does not steer at all. And AN / TPY-2 can be integrated into the air defense system, and not just missile defense. And do not forget about power. To power AN / TPY-2 you need a separate SHIP diesel or gas turbine engine - for the generator this already says a lot (see the radar equation)
  6. Operator
    Operator 30 March 2016 11: 49
    -4
    Is it really necessary to explain that the ability to intercept all types of flying targets is critically important for the defensive complex? It is a fact that close to THAAD one can run the "Petriot" air defense missile system, the "Stinger" MANPADS and the "Vulkan" air defense system. But the use of this poorly connected zoo is clearly less effective than the use of a single air defense / missile defense system with short, medium and long-range missiles.

    I understood correctly - you say that ready-made damaging elements are less effective in vacuum than in air?

    What do you smoke? At C-500, the detection range with probability 0.95 of a ballistic missile warhead with an EPR of 0.1 sq.m is 1300 km
    http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/topic-373.htm
  7. Falcon
    Falcon 30 March 2016 12: 14
    +1
    Quote: Operator
    Is it really necessary to explain that the ability to intercept all types of flying targets is critically important for the defense complex?


    When did unification benefit? Usually the most effective lesion is provided by highly specialized means.

    Quote: Operator
    about the use of this zoo, weakly interconnected, is clearly less effective


    Well, of course, created by unified NATO standards No. How does C-400 interact with the Shell? Also not effective then. Of course - the complex with the nomenclature in 100500 missiles is much better. Still need to get everything done by one operator.

    Quote: Operator

    I understood correctly - you say that ready-made damaging elements are less effective in vacuum than in air?


    What is the striking element? THAAD has a fairly healthy carcass (several kg). If you are going to scatter hundreds of such carcasses in the square, then yes it is also effective. Only for this we need a pH and not a Zur. And will they scatter them in a blast wave in a vacuum?

    Quote: Operator
    What do you smoke?


    UUUU, started crying How tired of me it is.

    on the same site:

    Target detection range by means of air defense systems - 600-750 km
    Long-range range:
    - 200 km / 600 km (source - A. Mikhalev)
    - to 500 km (source)


    Where is the truth Karl, where? Maybe on wiki? And where is its generator (comparable in power to AN / TPY-2?
  8. Operator
    Operator 30 March 2016 13: 40
    -3
    Unification is a trend, however (see, for example, Arlie Berg's radar, automated control system and silos).

    In the С-500 complex, the distribution of targets is done by a single automated control system (and not the operator), in the zoo at THAAD, data is exchanged between dissimilar automated control systems and generally people - MANPADS.

    GGE (shrapnel, rods, including rods connected in a ring) is scattered by an explosion of explosives located in the warhead housing, and not by an external shock wave. At the 5-10 km / s collision speed, any GGE will flash through the warhead missiles through (shrapnel) or cut into pieces (a ring of rods).

    C-500 radar data for what I bought, for that I sell (see link). As for the lack of high-power gas turbine power generators in Russia, you have powerfully wrapped it up.

    PS Use less words "verbiage" and "karl" in your comments, then you will not be asked about smoking laughing
  9. Falcon
    Falcon 30 March 2016 14: 16
    +1
    Quote: Operator
    Unification is a trend, however (see, for example, Arlie Berg's radar, automated control system and silos).


    Just look - who is responsible for managing the final stage air defense system.

    Quote: Operator
    GGE (shrapnel, rods, including rods connected in a ring) is scattered by an explosion of explosives located in the warhead housing, and not by an external shock wave. At the 5-10 km / s collision speed, any GGE will flash through the warhead missiles through (shrapnel) or cut into pieces (a ring of rods).


    Shuttle collision with garbage - nothing survived. Because shrapnel will be scattered.

    Quote: Operator

    C-500 radar data for what I bought, for that I sell (see link).

    I cited the data on the same link
  10. Operator
    Operator 30 March 2016 14: 51
    -2
    Is it possible that on the Arleigh Burke, at the last stage, the guidance of air defense missile systems launched from silos is still carried out manually as on the C-125?

    The dimensions and density of the shuttle and the ICBM's BB differ somewhat.

    Thank you, I have already used your data in comparing THAAD and C-500 radars.
  11. Falcon
    Falcon 30 March 2016 14: 54
    +2
    Quote: Operator
    The dimensions and density of the shuttle and the ICBM's BB differ somewhat.


    I see no reason to spray energy
  12. Operator
    Operator 30 March 2016 15: 47
    -2
    "Diffuse energy" (use GGE) to increase the likelihood of intercepting a target with one missile. Otherwise, two or more monolithic interceptors are used with a corresponding increase in cost.

    But I like the 1970's design - Lokheed's HOE umbrella network
  13. Falcon
    Falcon 30 March 2016 15: 54
    0
    Quote: Operator
    But I like the 1970's design - Lokheed's HOE umbrella network


    But for some reason, she did not go into the series?
  14. Falcon
    Falcon 30 March 2016 16: 16
    +2
    Quote: Operator
    As for the lack of high-power gas turbine power generators in Russia, you have powerfully wrapped it up.


    And I didn’t say that
  15. mav1971
    mav1971 29 March 2016 22: 48
    +2
    Quote: Operator
    "Do not tell me what to do, and I will not tell you where to go" (C)

    11 December 2015 of the year, RIA News
    State tests of S-500 air defense systems began
    http://ria.ru/defense_safety/20151211/1340323272.html

    PS Did you have electricity in your village in January 2016? laughing


    Hospadi ...
    Well, when will you learn to read what is written in the article, and not what you want ???

    Some military expert writes: "The RF Armed Forces may soon receive the first prototypes of the S-500."

    Experienced word to you - something explains?
    Test timing - does anything tell you?
    Playful?
    Climatic?
    Debugging?
    production start?
    placement by district?
    Putting on alert?
    Maybe only then can we say that THIS IS AT US ???
    Kindergarten, some kind of ...


    I first read about C-500 back in 2003.
    By your logic - we already had C-500 then ...

    Here are more relevant figures from more relevant people.
    "In 2016, the creation of prototypes of the new S-500 anti-aircraft missile system will be completed and their preliminary tests will begin. The system should go to state tests by 2020," Viktor Murakhovsky, a member of the expert council of the Military-Industrial Commission of the Russian Federation, said on the air of the RSN.
    31.01.2016 in 15: 36
    http://rusnovosti.ru/posts/407014

    It may be more correct ...
  16. Operator
    Operator 29 March 2016 22: 57
    -3
    Everything will be fine with C-500.

    C-500 differs from C-400 by radars and missiles. Radars will be adopted this year (decoding of Korotchenko’s message), missiles - in the next year or two (decoding of Murakhovsky’s message).
  • Vadim237
    Vadim237 29 March 2016 22: 20
    0
    ZRS Prometheus is ready and is undergoing tests, maybe on May 9 they will show at the parade.
  • Amurets
    Amurets 29 March 2016 12: 35
    0
    Quote: Operator

    In other words, all of Eurasia with the adjacent islands is a zone of military control of Russia and China. There will be no convoy shipments from America to Europe, Japan, and the Middle East to TMV. Butting can only happen for Africa, South America and Australia (if anyone is interested).

    Because the United States stubbornly pushed for a change in the constitution, which happened.
    http://topwar.ru/93054-v-yaponii-vstupil-silu-zakon-rasshiryayuschiy-polnomochiy
    a-voennogo-vedomstva.html
    1. Operator
      Operator 29 March 2016 13: 06
      -2
      China is our everything.
  • mav1971
    mav1971 29 March 2016 12: 32
    +1
    Quote: Operator

    ... The flight time of Ikander-M will be from 5 to 9 minutes. After that, it will be possible to fly over the radar positions of ICBM warheads without determining their coordinates and aiming missile defense missiles.

    Therefore, the placement of stationary over-the-horizon radars near the borders of a potential enemy works only in peacetime conditions - to track test launches and intercept single ballistic missiles.


    If you at least looked at a map for a start.
    Well, that would be more correct to write opus.

    In the affected area of ​​Iskander-M, only one point is Redsikovo.
    All the rest are unattainable for Iskander-M.

    Enough of one-sided populism.
    1. Operator
      Operator 29 March 2016 12: 50
      -4
      A warhead with a power of several tens of kilotons of TNT equivalent (quite enough for air ionization) weighs 50 kg.
      The range of the Iskander-M with a 480-kg warhead is 500 km. What will be its range with a warhead weighing 50 kg?
      1. Bongo
        29 March 2016 13: 02
        +6
        Quote: Operator
        A warhead with a power of several tens of kilotons of TNT equivalent (quite enough for air ionization) weighs 50 kg.

        Dear Andrey, where did you see the warhead for OTR weighing 50 kg? No.
        I repeat:
        Quote: Bongo
        Let's talk about what is actually and will not deal with the alternative. Alternative - on other sites.

        You used to make the impression of a perfectly sane person, please write only what you are sure of and do not engage in fantasies. Otherwise, you will no longer be taken seriously. hi
        1. Operator
          Operator 29 March 2016 13: 17
          -1
          Excuse me - I meant only the actual thermonuclear charge. Taking into account the seeker, the aerodynamic skirt with drives and the fairing, the weight of the lightest version of the Iskander-M warhead can be estimated at 100 kg versus the 600 kg version of the warhead with a 480-kg conventional charge.

          In this case, the difference in the cast weight is sixfold: it is possible to estimate the Iskadera-M's flight range at 1500 km - not a bad start.

          It is worth paying attention to the smaller radius of the warhead hull in comparison with the main body of the solid propellant solid propellant rocket - this begs the installation of the second stage with an increased radius of the hull.
          But all this is strictly alternative (as with the "Club") bully
          1. mav1971
            mav1971 29 March 2016 20: 14
            +2
            Quote: Operator
            Excuse me - I meant only the actual thermonuclear charge. Taking into account the seeker, the aerodynamic skirt with drives and the fairing, the weight of the lightest version of the Iskander-M warhead can be estimated at 100 kg versus the 600 kg version of the warhead with a 480-kg conventional charge.

            In this case, the difference in the cast weight is sixfold: it is possible to estimate the Iskadera-M's flight range at 1500 km - not a bad start.

            It is worth paying attention to the smaller radius of the warhead hull in comparison with the main body of the solid propellant solid propellant rocket - this begs the installation of the second stage with an increased radius of the hull.
            But all this is strictly alternative (as with the "Club") bully


            Again
            1. I advise you to find out about the required charge powers for a really powerful shock EMP. Many megatons.
            2. The weight of the warhead itself is not calculated range.
            3. Having clearly limited mass and dimensions, an attempt to put the second stage will lead either to a decrease in average speed or to a decrease in range. Yeah. Can you guess why? After all, just knowing the design of multi-stage missiles.

            Stop fantasizing.
            Iskander - he is so alone.
            It is not necessary to invent for him those characteristics that he cannot have by definition.
            All your Wishlist is a potentially different rocket.
            With other performance characteristics, weight and size.
            Nonexistent.
            1. Operator
              Operator 29 March 2016 20: 45
              -1
              1. We are not talking about EMP, but about air ionization during a high-altitude detonation of a 50-kt warhead "Iskandar-M". Previously, 3-kt nuclear charges of Sprint and Gazelle anti-missile missiles were enough for this.

              2. The weight of the Iskander-M warhead is assumed to be unchanged - about 600 kg.
              In a single-stage version of the rocket, it includes 480 kg of conventional warhead weight plus 120 kg of GNS and head fairing weight, and in the two-stage version - 50 kg of special warheads, 120 kg of GNS and fairing, 430 kg RDTT of the second stage.

              3. I just insist that the two-stage version of Iskander-M (contrary to the INF Treaty) is completely alternative.
              And why our partners were worried about the flight range of the "two-horned", I can't imagine bully
              1. mav1971
                mav1971 29 March 2016 21: 55
                +2
                Quote: Operator
                1. We are not talking about EMP, but about air ionization during a high-altitude detonation of a 50-kt warhead "Iskandar-M". Previously, 3-kt nuclear charges of Sprint and Gazelle anti-missile missiles were enough for this.

                2. The weight of the Iskander-M warhead is assumed to be unchanged - about 600 kg.
                In a single-stage version of the rocket, it includes 480 kg of conventional warhead weight plus 120 kg of GNS and head fairing weight, and in the two-stage version - 50 kg of special warheads, 120 kg of GNS and fairing, 430 kg RDTT of the second stage.

                3. I just insist that the two-stage version of Iskander-M (contrary to the INF Treaty) is completely alternative.
                And why our partners were worried about the flight range of the "two-horned", I can't imagine bully



                As I recall, ionization of air during NR disappears in the event of a temperature drop below 4K degrees. Those. active process less than 30-50 seconds in explosions from 250ct.

                You confuse the damaging effect of sprint - there is a dumb neutron warhead, which they tried to destroy the electronics available on the BG.

                two-stage Iskander - reality. The second stage is a modified subsonic CR Pomegranate. In fact, Iskander in this version is just a solid fuel accelerator for climbing. Fully subject to prohibition as a land-based KR.
                1. Operator
                  Operator 29 March 2016 22: 08
                  -2
                  In the description of the factors of a nuclear explosion, the time of existence in the upper atmosphere of the ionized region (not plasma, but the type of Earth’s ionosphere) is estimated as long. For blocking the air defense radars for the entire duration of the 40 BB flight, minutes are enough for the eyes.

                  The warheads of the Sprint and Gazelle are primarily thermonuclear and only secondarily - with an increased neutron yield. By the way, the range of neutrons in air does not exceed 2 km, while their energy is also spent on ionizing oxygen and nitrogen molecules.

                  The two-stage version of the Russian Iskander-M OTRK is an analogue of the Soviet Volga OTRK, which was created on the basis of the Oka single-stage and along with it fell under the INF Treaty.
                  As you can see in the figure, the "Volga" (far right) consisted of two ballistic stages, the first of which was borrowed one to one from the "Oka" (the second from the right edge)
                  1. mav1971
                    mav1971 29 March 2016 22: 59
                    +1
                    Quote: Operator

                    The two-stage version of the Russian Iskander-M OTRK is an analogue of the Soviet Volga OTRK, which was created on the basis of the Oka single-stage and along with it fell under the INF Treaty.
                    As you can see in the figure, the "Volga" (far right) consisted of two ballistic stages, the first of which was borrowed one to one from the "Oka" (the second from the right edge)


                    In this case - what will be the mass-dimension of your version of the two-stage Iskander?
                    Will it fit in the PU in size?
                    Will it be able to carry its PU in mass?
                    If in both cases you tell me yes - how much will the range be reduced? Yeah. That’s how I put the question ...
                    1. Operator
                      Operator 30 March 2016 00: 03
                      -3
                      If the missile launcher "Caliber" with a starting accelerator fits into the launcher, then the two-stage "Iskander-M" will fit.

                      I will put the question differently - what will happen to the flight range of the single-stage Iskander-M if the mass of the seeker is reduced from 100 to 50 kg (due to the use of a modern element base), and the mass of the warhead from 480 to 122 kg (to the level of 100-kt Warhead rocket Lance) with a corresponding reduction in the size of the warhead of the rocket?
      2. mav1971
        mav1971 29 March 2016 20: 04
        +2
        Quote: Operator
        A warhead with a power of several tens of kilotons of TNT equivalent (quite enough for air ionization) weighs 50 kg.
        The range of the Iskander-M with a 480-kg warhead is 500 km. What will be its range with a warhead weighing 50 kg?


        First of all.
        You do not consider the own weight of the rocket. which also needs further rise.
        And then you have some sort of abstract warhead only flies ... Yeah.



        Secondly.
        What is the specific density of uranium or plutonium, what is the size of the elements to create a critical mass?
        Count the total weight of the warhead yourself?

        Thirdly.
        For an insignificant EMR, we need powers approaching megatons. Really powerful EMP, so that for sure, to tens of megatons.
        And these are completely different mass-dimensional characteristics.

        Fourth.
        The effect of electromagnetic radiation has already been studied up and down. We started in the distant 1945. And they obviously learned to defend themselves from it.
        Estimate, but even in domestic cell phones there are already low-temperature ceramic antenna modules.
        This means that the technology has already been run-in so that in the household it began to be used due to its cheapness.
        1. Operator
          Operator 29 March 2016 20: 59
          -3
          For most of the questions, including about ignoring EMR, answered above.

          The most massive American thermonuclear warhead W-70 of the 1977 model of the year for the Lance rocket weighed 122 kg at a power of 100 Kt.
          1. mav1971
            mav1971 29 March 2016 22: 36
            +3
            Quote: Operator
            For most of the questions, including about ignoring EMR, answered above.

            The most massive American thermonuclear warhead W-70 of the 1977 model of the year for the Lance rocket weighed 122 kg at a power of 100 Kt.


            So, what is next?
            Do you think that at speed after starting in 6.5M - she does not need thermal protection and mechanical strength? Such speed is forgive 40-60G of acceleration.
            so feel free to add another kilogram of 100-150 here.
            So for a high-altitude explosion - you need to rise higher than the classic Iskander 50km. Accordingly, nothing can be improved qualitatively - plus 3-5 kilometers for the difference in weight - no more.
            And for the ground special warhead - it’s generally not clear what the gain is. The warhead should be as manageable and protected as a conventional warhead.
            Accordingly, there will be no plus from the special warhead.
            If you know the difference in the Lance you indicated, then look at the mass of rockets.
            And correlate the change in distance - the increase in the ideal case of Iskander will be no more than 50 kilometers. Well, it’s hard for him to raise himself ...
            Otherwise, Lance was liquid.


            I see no reason to explode in the ionosphere a mimic charge, from which potential ionization will occur no more than 40 seconds.
            Potential long-term radio communications disruptions in high-altitude nuclear explosions, as I understand it, were not due to ionization, but due to other related effects.
            Ionization, in my opinion, as an overwhelming effect - zilch.
            1. Operator
              Operator 29 March 2016 23: 06
              -1
              I do not consider anything according to the two-stage version of Iskander-M, I am guided by the technical decision of the Volga OTRK.

              You mix two concepts - a cloud of plasma (atomic nuclei without electron shells, a lifetime of tens of seconds) and a cloud of ionized air (such as ozone molecules, a lifetime of tens of minutes). At a concentration of 100%, the latter effectively blocks radio waves.
  • voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 29 March 2016 12: 33
    +3
    for Operator:
    "The flight time of Ikander-M will be from 5 to 9 minutes" ///

    And where do you get such 100% confidence that Iskander
    impossible to intercept?
    For kinetic "killer" Aegis Iskander on a high trajectory
    - not the hardest target.
    1. Operator
      Operator 29 March 2016 12: 58
      -2
      First, the Iskander-M warhead must be able to see on a low-altitude trajectory, and then try to intercept it in the time remaining before the high-altitude explosion.

      At the same time, the transatmospheric kinetic interceptors of sea and land-based missile defense missiles disappear - their infrared sensors are activated only after leaving the atmosphere (100 km), i.e. above the apogee of the Iskander-M flight path.
      Otherwise, the sensors simply burn out from heating when moving in air at a speed of one or more kilometers per second.

      To intercept Iskander-M, only Thaad is suitable, and even then at altitudes below the detonation of a special warhead to form a plasma cloud over the positions of the missile defense radar.
      1. Falcon
        Falcon 29 March 2016 13: 16
        +3
        Quote: Operator
        First, the Iskander-M warhead must be able to see on a low-altitude trajectory, and then try to intercept it in the time remaining before the high-altitude explosion.


        Low-altitude - how is it? I recall - this is a ballistic missile.

        Quote: Operator
        To intercept Iskander-M, only Thaad is suitable, and even then at altitudes below the detonation of a special warhead to form a plasma cloud over the positions of the missile defense radar.


        Does thaad have different homing principles than sm-3?

        What is bad about Patriot pac-3? and do not fence the garden.

        And what special warhead does the Iskander have? Have you been testing high altitude blasting?
      2. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 29 March 2016 16: 02
        +3
        "First, the Iskander-M warhead on a low-altitude trajectory must be able to see" ////

        There is no problem with "seeing". For example, the radar of the Israeli missile defense system "David's Sling" is tailored specifically for missiles in this range of altitudes, speeds and ranges (gently flying ballistic missiles). The Sling started, of course, not because of Iskander, but because of the large Iranian missiles stationed in Lebanon.
        It is more difficult to intercept Iskander, because its body and warhead are protected. Necessary
        direct hit - kinetic hit.
        In general, a slightly redone Aegis or Sling of David + Patriot-2 (on the final
        area) - "in two layers of defense" have a real chance of intercepting Iskander
        and cover up an important object. Well, you may have to start up 2 anti-missile systems for each system for a guarantee.
        1. Operator
          Operator 29 March 2016 16: 25
          -2
          Not just to see, but to see in advance within the available time for radar capture of the target (taking into account the radio horizon), the launch of a missile defense and flight to meet with the target at the height of nuclear warhead detonation (for the formation of a plasma cloud).

          Remind, please, when "David's Sling" or "Patriot" intercepted a maneuvering aeroballistic target at a speed of 2,1 km / s?

          PS Israeli missile defense troops have hot days now - a photo of Iskander-M at the Khmeimim base has been published on the Internet, less than 500 km from Tel Aviv laughing
          1. voyaka uh
            voyaka uh 30 March 2016 10: 39
            +3
            "Israeli missile defense troops have hot days now
            - a photo of "Iskander-M" was published on the Internet ////

            Israeli PRO-shniki began fighting everyday life even when
            missile defense system J. Dome was at the stage of laboratory tests -
            life made. fellow The fact that Hezbollah will bombard us with large BR no one
            doubts Saddam was already throwing - then he was first checked
            Patriot (personally observed - from the outside - his not very successful job) sad .
            Iskander is a difficult target, but he doesn’t maneuver all the way - there is
            and a simple ballistic site. And we cut off BR launches from all over the Middle
            East. And computers count much faster than rockets fly. Moreover, the "killers"
            Slings also know how to maneuver. Those. there is a small chance to intercept Iskander.
            1. Operator
              Operator 30 March 2016 11: 07
              -2
              It would be necessary to conduct a mutual testing of OTP / ABM over the Mediterranean Sea soldier

              The radius of destruction of the Iskander-M with a warhead mass of 730 kg and a conventional warhead weighing 480 kg is 500 km, with a warhead mass of 370 kg and a 100-kt special warhead weighing 120 kg is 1000 km.

              Diagram of the engagement area of ​​a conventional warhead when Iskander-M is deployed at the Khmeimim airbase
  • Operator
    Operator 29 March 2016 13: 31
    -2
    The apogee of the Iskander-M trajectory is from 50 to 150 km, depending on the range.

    The Thaad anti-ballistic missiles have a radio command guidance system in the atmospheric section of the trajectory (until the head fairing is reset and the IR sensor is released).

    Patriot has a limit on the height of target interception in 20 km. It is more efficient to carry out a high-altitude nuclear explosion for the formation of a plasma cloud at 25-30 km.
    1. Falcon
      Falcon 29 March 2016 13: 50
      +2
      Quote: Operator
      The Thaad anti-ballistic missiles have a radio command guidance system in the atmospheric section of the trajectory (until the head fairing is reset and the IR sensor is released).


      Like sm-3 there is a radio correction. Only this will not allow a kinetic hit!

      The minimum interception height remains. Radio command kinetic interception is not feasible. With increasing range, the error of determination only grows.

      Where was it generally said, at least once, about the high-altitude detonation of the iskander with special warheads? I did not hear.
      1. Operator
        Operator 29 March 2016 14: 04
        -1
        Americans for Thaad declared the minimum interception altitude "over 50 km".

        Based on the operability of the semiconductor IR sensor under flight conditions at a speed of 2,5 km / s, the real target capture altitude of a thermal seeker can be estimated at 100 km, and target damage after capture can be estimated at 150 km.
  • Old26
    Old26 29 March 2016 20: 16
    +3
    Quote: Amurets
    He told him about three months ago. No, he doesn’t find a publisher. Who needs this? A bunch of reasons.

    And he spoke correctly. Now to find a publisher who can raise this topic is a dead matter. Interest in this topic will cause a maximum of 0,5-1% of readers. Even large corporations and design bureaus publish (if release) books with a circulation of a maximum of a couple of thousand copies. And they have not yet come out become a bibliographic rarity. This has happened with most books on missile defense. Yes, and rocket too. What do we know by and large about the unrealized projects of the Royal, Chelomeevsky, Yangelovsky, Makeevsky, Turin Design Bureau (the latter is generally incognito terra). Two dozen rocket designs of this design bureau are known, and even then the majority are only indexed.
    1. region58
      region58 29 March 2016 20: 40
      +2
      Quote: Old26
      What do we know by and large about the unrealized projects of the Royal, Chelomeevsky, Yangelovsky, Makeevsky, Turin Design Bureau (the latter is generally incognito terra).

      Yeah, but you start to get interested and understand that such masterpieces turned out, which even now you can’t always repeat, either technology is lost, or something else ...
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 29 March 2016 22: 25
      0
      Here, at the expense of not implemented missile defense systems, it is written in detail - http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/index-26.html
    3. mav1971
      mav1971 29 March 2016 23: 05
      0
      Quote: Old26
      Quote: Amurets
      He told him about three months ago. No, he doesn’t find a publisher. Who needs this? A bunch of reasons.

      And he spoke correctly. Now to find a publisher who can raise this topic is a dead matter.

      Well, if you do not mind working for money. but I want to share knowledge - so can I release it in the internet? To spread on torrents and other filibusts ...
    4. Amurets
      Amurets 30 March 2016 04: 42
      +1
      Quote: Old26
      Yes, and rocket too. What do we know by and large about the unrealized projects of the Royal, Chelomeevsky, Yangelovsky, Makeevsky, Turin Design Bureau (the latter is generally incognito terra). Two dozen rocket designs of this design bureau are known, and even then the majority are only by indexes

      Volodya! Hello! I’m completely right! According to Tyurinsky Design Bureau, even the materials that were there began to disappear. According to Dukelsky, Florensky, the artilleryman, brother
  • Old26
    Old26 30 March 2016 11: 33
    +3
    Quote: Vadim237
    Here, at the expense of not implemented missile defense systems, it is written in detail - http://militaryrussia.ru/blog/index-26.html

    Vadim, all this is known. But this is secondary information. But the primary one is most often in books on subjects that are not available

    Quote: Amurets
    Volodya! Hello! I’m completely right! According to Tyurinsky Design Bureau, even the materials that were there began to disappear. According to Dukelsky, Florensky, the artilleryman, brother

    Hi Kolya! Yes, there is less and less information about the Tyurinsky Design Bureau. Several years ago, to mark the anniversary of Arsenal, a book was published about the products that were created there. But alas, there were not even fragments in electronic form from this book. But there is a whole unknown layer.
    For example, Tyurin created a product with the F-667 index for project 16 boats. Or F-17 for project 941. Or PGRK with missiles F-19, F-22, F-27. Only known about PGRK with F-22. Well, etc. etc.
    1. Amurets
      Amurets 30 March 2016 14: 05
      0
      Quote: Old26
      For example, Tyurin created a product with the F-667 index for project 16 boats. Or F-17 for project 941. Or PGRK with missiles F-19, F-22, F-27. Only known about PGRK with F-22. Well, etc. etc.

      Yes, we discussed this topic. Today I wrote you a detailed commentary on Dukelsky. Florensky not Paul (bishop), but Andrei, who worked with Tyurin and Dukelsky. But I see only its beginning, It was Dukelsky and A. Florensky who were the founders of the creation of heavy artillery transporters Tm-1-14; Tm-2-12; Tm-3-12. These works formed the basis for the creation of the BZHRK. Not the RT-23 "Scalpel", but the first developments. Then, the materials on the D-11 complex disappeared with the R-31 rockets that were on the K-140 SSBNs, project 667AM. Fortunately, some of the materials I have survived, but very little. Yes, in the disappeared part of the commentary there were links to the latest anniversary editions. "Torch Rockets"; "Rockets and Spacecraft KB "Yuzhnoye"; << "Radar technologies". To the 50th anniversary of JSC "Radiofizika" >> Here are the last three books, starting from 2000. I have not found anything else from the modern.
  • Old26
    Old26 30 March 2016 16: 04
    +3
    Quote: Operator
    Everything will be fine with C-500.

    C-500 differs from C-400 by radars and missiles. Radars will be adopted this year (decoding of Korotchenko’s message), missiles - in the next year or two (decoding of Murakhovsky’s message).

    You know, Andrey, it’s interesting to read you, because there are thoughts in the posts. But I agree with the comrades who above you pointed out the unrealistic timing. You are blind, you could say BELIEVE ABSOLUTELY is that someone in the media. But even senior commentators have a lot of mistakes. There are hundreds of examples.

    Now regarding what you wrote above. With all due respect, that to Korotchenko, that to Dmitry Kornev - they are still not the primary source. Yes, site and forum militaryrussia.ru quite an interesting resource, mobile, which is called an electronic encyclopedia, but alas. and on militaryrussia.ru enough blunders, so give a link to it, as a resource where you can read - yes, you can. It is impossible to use it as the ultimate truth. In addition, there are several replicas

    1. In fact, it is not correct to compare what is (in particular, the same TSAAD) with what is not yet (S-500). But this system is not yet.
    2. Regarding the dates indicated by you. Maybe this year they will test the radar, but they won’t take it into service. The same goes for missiles. Some of them exist, some do not know how many years have passed the tests and have not passed them yet, some do not. The difference between air defense systems from others is that all this should work flawlessly in COMPLEX. On the same S-400, the radar-rocket test took almost 7 years, and you, with the whole range of missiles still missing, are already thinking about a year or two.

    Quote: Operator
    It is necessary to conduct mutual testing of OTR / missile defense over the Mediterranean Sea. The radius of destruction of the Iskander-M with a warhead mass of 730 kg and a conventional warhead weighing 480 kg is 500 km, with a warhead mass of 370 kg and a 100-kt special warhead weighing 120 kg is 1000 km.

    Share, where did you get a double increase in range with such a change in the mass of the warheads
  • Old26
    Old26 30 March 2016 19: 14
    +2
    Quote: Operator
    If the missile launcher "Caliber" with a starting accelerator fits into the launcher, then the two-stage "Iskander-M" will fit.

    "Caliber" will not fit there. Too long. And the Iskander itself is right next to the launcher
    1. Operator
      Operator 30 March 2016 20: 04
      -2
      The length of the mobile launcher "Iskander-M" MZKT-7930 is 12,7 meters, incl. free space for placing missiles 8,7 meters. The length of a single-stage ballistic missile with a conventional warhead is 7,2 meters, the reserve length is 1,5 meters.
      With a more compact special warhead, the length of the rocket will be less by about 0,5 meters, the reserve of length will increase to 2 meters, plus an increase in the rear overhang to the size of the front overhang by 1,6 meters, total 3,6 meters
  • Old26
    Old26 30 March 2016 21: 23
    +1
    Only here is the front of the "body" is also an aiming system. Further, what more compact body length of the special unit can we talk about when the fairing is the same for all types of combat equipment. Therefore, your reasoning about the 1,5 meter length reserve is just reasoning.
    In addition, as you write, plus an increase in the rear overhang to the size of the front overhang, this is a completely different launcher, not the current one.
    1. Operator
      Operator 30 March 2016 23: 18
      -2
      I mean that when installing a special warhead under a standard fairing, 0,5 body lengths are released.

      Increasing the length of the rear overhang of the MZKT-7930 is nothing more than replacing the body of an existing launcher.

      A total of 2,1 meters (at least) of the reserve length for the installation of the Iskander-M second stage solid propellant rocket.
  • Old26
    Old26 31 March 2016 09: 38
    +3
    Quote: Operator
    I mean that when installing a special warhead under a standard fairing, 0,5 body lengths are released.

    AND? Suppose a special warhead is more compact. How is 0,5 body length exempted? Cases of what? A head fairing ?, so what, what will it give in the total length of the rocket. I repeat. Fairing is standard for all types of military equipment. Yes, the firing range with the special unit will increase compared to the conventional. By the way, you didn’t answer why you think that it is doubled, and not for example by 20%

    Quote: Operator
    Increasing the length of the rear overhang of the MZKT-7930 is nothing more than replacing the body of an existing launcher.

    But this will be a completely different launcher, which does not exist and which will have to be created and tested from scratch ...

    Quote: Operator
    A total of 2,1 meters (at least) of the reserve length for the installation of the Iskander-M second stage solid propellant rocket.

    Iskander-M is a single-stage missile. A product with a second stage is no longer Iskander-M

    1. Operator
      Operator 31 March 2016 12: 01
      -1
      The Iskander-M body consists of a solid propellant rocket and a warhead. The seeker and warhead are located at the head. With a decrease in the length of the warhead, the freed up space is just enough to accommodate the dome end of the second stage solid propellant rocket. The solid propellant engine itself will take place in the 1,6-meter cylindrical spacer between the fairing and the first stage.

      I mean that the first stage of the Iskander-M is the basis for the installation of the second stage of the Iskander-M-II during the modernization of the Oka / Volga or Pershing / Pershing-II OTRK.
  • Old26
    Old26 31 March 2016 15: 30
    +3
    Quote: Operator
    The Iskander-M body consists of a solid propellant rocket and a warhead. The seeker and warhead are located at the head. With a decrease in the length of the warhead, the freed up space is just enough to accommodate the dome end of the second stage solid propellant rocket. The solid propellant engine itself will take place in the 1,6-meter cylindrical spacer between the fairing and the first stage.

    Everything ingenious is simple. The warhead length is reduced and there is enough space for placement of the dome end of the second stage solid propellant solid propellant.

    And where to go ...
    However, what for they are needed, software with aiming systems, a gyro-stabilized platform, BTsVK. Yes, and the warhead itself will do without an automatic blasting unit ....
    The main thing is to put the second stage in the same length and place it in the same SPU ....

    Quote: Operator
    when modernizing OTRK of the Oka / Volga or Pershing / Pershing-II type.

    Actually "Volga" never not modernization of "Oka", as well as "Pershing-2" not modernization of "Pershing-1"
  • Operator
    Operator 31 March 2016 18: 12
    -2
    We are talking about the modernization potential of "Iskander-M" for neutralizing the US missile defense radar located within a radius of 1000 km from Russian borders - for example, in Romania and South Korea.

    I gave above the appearance of "Oka" and "Volga" - the second rocket looks like a solid propellant rocket and the head of the first rocket with a spacer between them in the form of an additional solid propellant rocket.

    All of the Iskander-M avionics are concentrated in the head of the rocket and will not suffer in any way from the replacement of the conventional warhead with a more compact special warhead, with the top of the second stage solid propellant rocket motor located in the vacant volume.
  • Old26
    Old26 31 March 2016 21: 28
    +2
    Quote: Operator
    We are talking about the modernization potential of "Iskander-M" for neutralizing the US missile defense radar located within a radius of 1000 km from Russian borders - for example, in Romania and South Korea.

    I see no point in such modernization. For what? In order to neutralize the missile defense radar, it is not necessary to upgrade the OTRK to the level of "leaving the DRMSD". In return, we will receive many "pleasant" gifts for us at our borders.
    Again, the missile defense radar in Devesela, although it is located outside the 500-km reach zone, does not pose any threat to the Russian ICBMs. Why fence the garden?

    Quote: Operator
    I gave above the appearance of "Oka" and "Volga" - the second rocket looks like a solid propellant rocket and the head of the first rocket with a spacer between them in the form of an additional solid propellant rocket.

    The appearance of "Oka" corresponds to the realities. But the external "Volga" is a "collective" image created by DIMMI and comrade Allocer, the author of the "photo" where a pair of Volga SPUs are in the "field". Moreover, Allocer himself writes that he decided to dream up with the appearance. He did not see the product itself and the drawing is nothing more than creativity from what this comrade knew and what he "thought out". And in one version, what you showed - on the second stage there are lattice rudders, that is, from Allocer - a longer version with swept rudders for 2 stages and a warhead ... That's it. Now do you see how reliable the information you provided from militarization is? It is only known for certain that the "Volga" was created with the developments of "Oka" and "Oki-U"

    Quote: Operator
    All of the Iskander-M avionics are concentrated in the head of the rocket and will not suffer in any way from the replacement of the conventional warhead with a more compact special warhead, with the top of the second stage solid propellant rocket motor located in the vacant volume.

    Uh-huh .... In the fairing of the warhead, and not in the warhead (let's call a spade a spade), in addition to the warhead itself, there are also homing systems and automatic warhead detonation. Moreover, in the very bow part - the homing head, then the charge, and finally in the bottom part of the automatic detonation. The bottom of the head is flat. The warhead is then docked with the top of the missile section of the rocket - namely the instrument compartment. Only this way and nothing else. Even if, as a result of placing a more compact special warhead, a free space appears, we cannot say that the automatic detonation of nuclear warheads is as compact as, for example, the cassette part. And alas, the "bottom" of the head part remains flat again ...