India does not want to "overpay" for the French "Rafali"

For 36 french fighters "Rafale" India is ready to pay $ 7 billion, not more. The French are counting on $ 9 billion, reports MIC with reference to the Tribune newspaper.

"The delegation of the French 29 negotiators in March will arrive in New Delhi to try again to arrange the supply of fighters," said a newspaper source in the Indian Ministry of Defense. “Dassault Aviation asked the Indian side to think about new prices, however, the figure of $ 7 billion was adopted and it can in no way be changed.”

“It would be impossible to justify for the country,” added a military official.

He recalled that in January, the parties “as a first step towards the signing of a formal intergovernmental agreement” signed a memorandum of understanding.

“But this is only the initial stage, then the pricing decides the fate of the transaction,” said the source, noting that “France expects to receive at least $ 36 billion for 9 aircraft.”

Meanwhile, experts following the development of events believe that Paris does not want to give up in price because it sees the plight of the Indian Air Force, which “recently due to the write-off of obsolete machines faced a serious shortage of military equipment — now only 33 squadrons of 16-18 aircraft in each. "

According to the calculations of the Indian military, "to maintain two fronts, with China and Pakistan, the country requires a minimum of 44 squadron of modern fighters," concludes the publication.

Comments

[Mixweb]

Soon, again, our fighters will pay attention to our fighters in order to bring down the price of the French.

[Observer2014]

India does not want to "overpay" for the French "Rafali"
In fact, the Indians with their "hodgepodge or vinaigrette" in choosing suppliers for their army is sometimes difficult to understand. Well, as they say, this is not our business.

[Now we are free]

Hello Brothers from the DNR!

Quote: Observer2014

Generally, the Indians with their "hodgepodge or vinaigrette" in choosing suppliers for their army is sometimes difficult to understand.

Sergey, the question here is still quite simple. Hindus before the collapse of the USSR in the vast majority of armaments depended on equipment and spare parts supplied by the USSR. After the collapse of the Union, they fell into disarray. Yes, now Russia can offer both maintenance of USSR equipment and its modernization and new weapons, BUT Hindus are now afraid to depend on one supplier. In addition, active winking with competitors (French) makes Russia, the USA and the EU with their EF-2000 more accommodating than the French themselves, whom the Indians can send to ... with their dear Rafals. After the tender, one of the Indian generals who was secretly told the representatives of the evaluation committee -You know, we are very impressed with both your Mig-35 aircraft and the terms of the commercial proposal on your part, BUT one factor crosses out all the advantages ... YOU YOURSELF Until now, they haven’t accepted it for weapons, and therefore we doubt the rationality of purchasing your MiG-35 ...
By the way, the Indians are one of the most professional pilots to date, the Red Flag exercises where their opponents were the US Air Force proved this. As for heavy fighters, the Indians have already made their choice in favor of the Sukikhs, and I think that in terms of choosing light fighters, they will eventually make a choice in favor of the Migov 35, the only thing left is to ADOPT the serial MiG-35 ...

[andrey-ivanov]

By the way, Indians are one of the most professional pilots to date.

At the same time, the Indians themselves complain about the low level of training of young pilots. This is what they explain the high accident rate in the Indian Air Force.

[abrakadabre]

They may have good pilots. Only the weight of the pilot’s word in planning and conducting procurements is zero. From the word at all.
Hindus do not want to depend on one supplier? So they want:
1. Be dependent on many suppliers.
2. Have a logistic hemorrhoids for servicing a super motley fleet of equipment and the attached ammunition.
3. To reduce the effectiveness of their aircraft due to chronic procurement and throwing from supplier to supplier.
And these are just offhand points.

[Alstorm]

I would also add complexity to the interaction between different techniques. For example, due to different standards in the design of avionics, communications and data transmission.

[Altona]

Quote: abrakadabre

Hindus do not want to depend on one supplier? So they want:
1. Be dependent on many suppliers.
2. Have a logistic hemorrhoids for servicing a super motley fleet of equipment and the attached ammunition.
3. To reduce the effectiveness of their aircraft due to chronic procurement and throwing from supplier to supplier.
And these are just offhand points.

--------------------------------
At the same time, I am surprised at their desire to confront two fronts, China and Pakistan. Nuclear powers, by the way, with all the attributes. And to have such a carousel with logistics and supply. Their business of course, they consider their rupees as they see fit.

[Ardein]

The point is not that these are nuclear powers, but that both Pakistan and China have open territorial disputes in which no one in their right mind will use nuclear weapons (even tactical ones), but conventional weapons are very even active.

[kit-kat]

This position of the Indians is not clear. After all, the Mig-35 is just a deep (although for me, it’s not very deep) modernized Mig-29.

[VP]

Quote: kit-kat

After all, the Mig-35 is just a deep (although for me, it’s not very deep) modernized Mig-29.

This, in particular, did not suit them. For example, the fact that the RD-33MK engine is a modernization of the engine of the 72nd year, they wanted something more structurally fresh.
The desire is controversial, but they had it.

[Ardein]

The fact is that, structurally, the MiG-35 is not close to the base MiG-29, but to its (including export, including India armed) ship's version of the MiG-29K / KUB.
And this in the case of India can play a decisive role, since the maintenance of this aircraft will be much more convenient and cheaper than the same Rafal.

[BULB TARAS]

India is the homeland of gypsies why be surprised))

[Ze Kot]

Quote: TARAS BULBA

India is the homeland of gypsies why be surprised))

Actually, the Indians, Slavs and Northern Europeans are similar in the gallogroup ...

[Cat man null]

Quote: TARAS BULBA

India is the homeland of gypsies why be surprised))

Exactly.

And Russia - the elephants!

[Very old]

So it’s true - not our money, and considerations too

But our time to learn how to trade
Remember who advised this?

[Aaron Zawi]

Quote: Observer2014

India does not want to "overpay" for the French "Rafali"
In fact, the Indians with their "hodgepodge or vinaigrette" in choosing suppliers for their army is sometimes difficult to understand. Well, as they say, this is not our business.

By the way, it is possible that the lobby of Indian car manufacturers is working. India began production of the Tejas, considered by many to be a very successful light fighter. In a number of performance characteristics, it is inferior to the Rafal, but much cheaper and has practically comparable radar and weapons.

It is possible that India will abandon Rafal and leave two types of Su-30 MKI and Tejas vehicles.

[vlad66]

Quote: Mixweb

Soon, again, our fighters will pay attention to our fighters in order to bring down the price of the French.

As part of the bargaining, the Indians will even surpass the Chinese and Arabs, so that to agree with them it is necessary to have steel ropes instead of nerves.

[Diana Ilyina]

Quote: Mixweb

Soon, again, our fighters will pay attention to our fighters in order to bring down the price of the French.

Yes, so why what, but the Indians know how to bargain. By and large, they will bargain for production technologies, although they need the aircraft themselves, the technology is more important. They do this all over the world, over there they bargained for the production of T-90 and "Brahmos". True, I read somewhere that they had some kind of problem with the tanks, either the armor was not the same, or there was some problem in the technology of the casting of the gun barrels. Getting technology is one thing, but learning how to reproduce it is another. After the collapse of the USSR, the Americans won how many of our secrets did they get, and how many could they reproduce ?! That's it ...!

[tiredwithall]

I wonder what kind of secrets and technologies are we talking about? Where are the buksonuli mattresses?

[dgiguli1962]

And on whose engines do they fly into space?

[tiredwithall]

Fly means mastered.

[kotvov]

Fly means mastered. ,,
Are you by any chance not from Ukraine? They write to you they’re buying, and they fly to them, and you fly your own way.

[tiredwithall]

"Fly" is not mine. Be more attentive.

[tiredwithall]

"Fly" is not mine. Be more attentive.

[Diana Ilyina]

Quote: tiredwithall

I wonder what kind of secrets and technologies are we talking about? Where are the buksonuli mattresses?

As far as I remember, it was a question of the S-300 complex, received by the Americans after the collapse of the USSR, either from Ukraine, or from Belarus. The Americans could not copy it or create something like that, as far as I know!

[tiredwithall]

It is unlikely that Old Man would give such a technique. But are you somehow nervous? Not worth it.

[tiredwithall]

It is unlikely that Old Man would give such a technique. But are you somehow nervous? Not worth it.

[Ardein]

They could not copy, but received data on the tracking / guidance station. Which is also not good.
So the S-500 and S-350 are in mass production.
The recent opening of a new plant of the Almaz-Antey concern will clearly contribute to this.

[Pereira]

In fact, it is.
Russian technology should be accompanied by a head.
On the one hand it’s great. Chinese Kalashnikov is much more capricious and less durable.
But if our heads are not regularly replaced with young ones, we, too, will not be able to reproduce our own technologies.

[tiredwithall]

"A head must be attached to Russian technology." And also carefully file with a file after assembly.

[Pereira]

This is no longer a head, it is already a pen.
You obviously did not work in production.

[tiredwithall]

He worked in three very strong factories, but it was a long time ago. And about the file - so this is a hint of a bearded joke. It seems the people took the quote literally.

[tiredwithall]

"A head must be attached to Russian technology." And also carefully file with a file after assembly.

[Samen]

Is Rafael on the right or on the left? Who will tell you?

[guzik007]

On the right is a bird from the special squad of the Moscow Zoo.

[VP]

And what to shoot there.
9 billion. / 36 = 250 million per machine.
It is clear that there, for sure, not only the plane is included in the price, but the francs are greyhound, of course.
Nothing, the Indians will show them how the right eastern boys make purchases, teach life

[dauria]

And what to shoot there.
9 billion. / 36 = 250 million per machine.

There are very tricky conditions - assembly of almost fifty more in Indian factories with the transfer of technology and rights, plus 50% of the contract value, the French must reinvest in Indian companies. Too confusing to calculate the cost of a single plane.

[Simon]

Well, the French! They see the plight of India, they have bred speculation, they want a good jackpot. Is it time for the Hindus to contact us in Russia, so our prices will not be bent. And they will be good and for the economy is not bad. And everything will go well, then we’ll note this matter

[Stas157]

Worn with your Rafales! Everyone is trying to cram, not cram!

Meanwhile, experts who monitor the development of events believe that Paris does not want to give in price, because it sees the plight of the Indian Air Force

If India has a plight in the Air Force, then in France itself, what? The number of combat aircraft in India is more than three times more than in France. Of these, about three hundred modern Su-30MKI.
It’s more like a paddling pool, you have to offer planes, seeing the plight of their Air Force! For example, cheap Su-30s, since expensive Rafali cannot afford them!

[PPD]

Hindus put so many conditions and claims upon purchase that you are simply amazed.
It’s not so for them, it’s not for that. Krylov’s fable is exactly about them, and you friends don’t sit down, you’re not good at musicians.

[evge-malyshev]

Quote: Mixweb

Soon, again, our fighters will pay attention to our fighters in order to bring down the price of the French.

It seems to be so.

[Shuttle]

Quote: Mixweb

Soon, again, our fighters will pay attention to our fighters in order to bring down the price of the French.

I think it is worth helping them with this. They also kind of helped us with the Mistrals.

[iliitchitch]

The Indians had a mess and will be, what for two fronts, I would be living.

[Lemon1972]

Ah well done Indians, the whole world twists his hands.

[sub307]

"... the whole world is twisting its arms." Everything, not everything, but those who want to sell them something - they can.

[Thronekeeper]

The Mistral is a prostrate, Rafal is also a prostrate ... Such optionality in the implementation of defense contracts, for political reasons, at least for financial reasons, turns the French military-industrial complex into a prostitute. There, the client paid the hut, so that he wouldn’t give it, to the client Vladimir, then they agreed on an mutual understanding, but it requires not 70 euros, but 90 already, the client already has something wrong ...

[alex-cn]

It seems that the French will fly in with this delivery. And given the failure with the Mistrals, they can even fly as arms suppliers.

[tiredwithall]

There is no war. As usual, the game goes on empty fears. And French planes are not worth 7 billion.

[AID.S]

9bn / 36 = 250mln per piece. F35 is resting? What else do they want to sell with the planes? Golden parachutes?

[prosto_rgb]

Quote: AID.S

9bn / 36 = 250mln per piece. F35 is resting? What else do they want to sell with the planes? Golden parachutes?

even
7bn / 36 = 194,4 million apiece. it turns out. came close to F22

[Yegorchik]

Quote: AID.S

9bn / 36 = 250mln per piece. F35 is resting? What else do they want to sell with the planes? Golden parachutes?

Pilot training + training for technicians + weapons (missiles are not a cheap pleasure) + necessary equipment and equipment for operating and maintaining aircraft and much more that I, as a specialist, don’t even know. The price of the aircraft itself is hardly more than 100 million.

[newcomer]

in the light of the latest positive news about our mig35, our mo will conduct state tests in the summer, then the Indians are very likely to return to our mig. since before the summer they are unlikely to agree with the francs.

[EvgNik]

As usual - francs toad strangles. They’ll fly a couple of times with supplies and can do winemaking with a pure soul. Well and haute couture perfume frogs.

[tiredwithall]

In the top ten. Franks are greedy by nature.

[tiredwithall]

In the top ten. Franks are greedy by nature.

[rotmistr60]

For EvgNik
I will support you, but the toad suffocates the Indians too. They have a pair of each creature in the Air Force, which suggests that they are looking for financial benefits when purchasing without thinking about the subsequent costs of servicing. Everything is like in Indian cinema - they sang, danced, fought, kissed off-screen, and in the end turned out to be relatives.

[Primus pilus]

They take at exorbitant prices from the working people. Yes, he does not cost that much money, the French are crazy, and the Hindus will go after them if they buy at that price.

[76SSSR]

Paris does not want to concede in price, because it sees the plight of the Indian Air Force ...

This argument could and would have a right to exist if only France "made" combat aircraft.

[tiredwithall]

If you look at the proposed vector of cooperation and division of labor between countries, in the end, behind the words France, the sale of goods and profits is one surname - Rothschild, the French branch.

[VP]

This is for a long time.
This is a ritual among the Indians to take out the brain of a potential supplier. If you do this for years, you get +100 karma.

[Dmitry Potapov]

Hindus are still cunning. We need to deliver something to Pakistan and China so that only our MiGs and Sushki can resist them, and then we'll see where the French will stick their "Rafali" and the Indians will use their language for bargaining. Bend all the masters' fingers until the rooster pecks there.

[76SSSR]

Why this "flipper" if there is a moment-35 ...) Just do not tell me about the tender again - complete nonsense.

[avg-mgn]

Quote: Observer2014

In fact, the Indians with their "hodgepodge or vinaigrette" in choosing suppliers for their army is sometimes difficult to understand. Well, as they say, this is not our business.

Anyway, this is a market - I want free but good. Just the other day we discussed leasing the Yasen nuclear submarine.
http://topwar.ru/92820-smi-indiya-prosit-moskvu-peredat-v-arendu-vtoruyu-apl.htm

l # comment-id-5712179
They really want to pay about 800 mil $ when we offer 10 times higher. Therefore, our mind is also the case.

[Engineer]

Quote: 76SSSR

Why this "flipper" if there is a moment-35 ...) Just do not tell me about the tender again - complete nonsense.

Because not one MiG-35 has yet taken off. Only the first two are collected. And Rafale can be "felt" for a long time.

[diden]

Quote: tiredwithall

I wonder what kind of secrets and technologies are we talking about? Where are the buksonuli mattresses?

in my MstaS which was disassembled to a screw but didn’t do anything like it or better, I can be wrong

[tiredwithall]

Stumbled on a self-propelled gun?

[tiredwithall]

Stumbled on a self-propelled gun?

[evge-malyshev]

Quote: diden

Quote: tiredwithallI wonder what secrets and technologies are we talking about? Where are the mattresses buksonuli? In my MstaS which was dismantled to the screw but didn’t do anything like it or better, I can be wrong

And what about the RD-180 rocket engines? They are still trying to "replace import"

[silver_roman]

For 7 lard we would stuff them with our Su-30MKI. Obviously there would be much more than 36 aircraft. That we altruists work at such prices. The states over there are managing old frigates who go under the knife (O. Perry) to hover over the Turks, and those bottoms are eager to buy. Hindus, too, were stubborn ..

[BOB044]

Do not want to pay 9 miles. Buy on the independent AN-2 and there will be not 44 but 104 squadrons. And there will be money left for the Navy.

[Ros 56]

Yes, let them buy if there is no mind. They refused ours, so this is their headache. By the way, I figured it out for myself, one gram of "Raphael" costs about 550 rubles. Its takeoff weight is 25 tons, and the year of development is 1986, modifications and modernization are understandable, but nevertheless.

[forest park 86]

ours should not skimp on kickbacks (and la la gushnikov see the price increase just because of this). And pull Serdyukov, like he is now connected with aviation.

[colonel manuch]

Undoubtedly, our MiGs are better, but now, due to "effective managers" in aircraft construction, (shipbuilding), a situation has arisen when we, even for ourselves, cannot establish fast production of a light fighter, therefore the Indians have opted for Rafal. "Privatization" and the subsequent 20 years of the collapse of industry, the plundering of the scientific developments of Soviet scientists, we are now haunted.

[oxotnuk86]

If we admit the thought that mattress makers offered the French (so they cannot refuse) to raise the price. They will break the contract and calmly solder the F 16, this has already happened with the Mistrals and helicopters.

[evil partisan]

Hindus for 2 billion stranglehold. We worked with them for several years. Kapets what are greedy ... and the cunning ee-ee. They strive for everything ... to deceive , generally...

[From Samara]

It is better not to have anything to do with Indians ...

And the plane is Great!

[SIMM]

These blood spoil the soul of the soul ...)))
May not count on 9 billion

[atamankko]

Let them bargain if they don’t want normal planes.

[Resistance]

Quote: Very old

But our time to learn how to trade

Better yet, learn how to make engines for light cars