Military Review

Production of 11356 frigates can be organized in India

59
Russia is negotiating with India on the organization in its territory of the production of frigates of the project 11356, reports MIC with reference to the Deputy General Director of Rosoboronexport, Sergei Goreslavsky.




“Today we are negotiating the possible construction of submarines of the 75I project (I-Indian) on the basis of the latest diesel-electric submarines Amur-1650, and are also discussing the prospects for purchasing an additional batch of 11356 frigates and organizing their licensed production in India”,
said Goreslavsky.

Earlier it was reported that Russia intends to sell India the second three frigates of project 11356, intended for the Black Sea the fleet.

In addition, representatives of Rosoboronexport intend to discuss with Indian partners the development of the Russian Armed Forces at the military exhibition Defexpo India-2016, which will be held in South Goa from 28 to 31 in March.

Help "MIC": “The patrol ships of the 11356 project have a displacement of 4000 tons, the travel speed is up to 30 knots, the autonomy of navigation is 30 days. The frigates are armed with the Caliber-NK missile system with a high-precision cruise missile, the Multichannel Shtil-1 air defense missile system, the Palash missile defense system.
Photos used:
http://forums.airbase.ru
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  1. SAG
    SAG 23 March 2016 20: 09
    +7
    Actually, I'm for !! Just to start, let them purchase our production with a dozen hi
    Closed Western loans are pushing more sales to the east.
    1. Großer feldherr
      Großer feldherr 23 March 2016 20: 15
      +4
      "The buyer is always right" because sets a condition, and the Indians want to build ships themselves.
      And this is good, India is not our enemy, and money is never redundant.
      1. Ami du peuple
        Ami du peuple 23 March 2016 20: 22
        +6
        Quote: Großer Feldherr
        And this is good, India is not our enemy, and money is never redundant.
        Something is not clear from the publication for whom the ships will be built. It seems that production is organized at Indian shipyards in the interests of our Navy. Well, to get around sanctions-shkanktsii. Or it seemed to me?
        By the way, who is stopping really buying ready-made frigates of our project from India on mutually beneficial conditions?
        1. jjj
          jjj 23 March 2016 20: 46
          +8
          We just do not have time to rivet. We also need our fleet. And so: they will build themselves and pay money, and they will not go to competitors
          1. Wheel
            Wheel 24 March 2016 00: 05
            +6
            Quote: jjj
            We just do not have time to rivet. We also need our fleet. And so: they will build themselves and pay money, and they will not go to competitors

            It’s just that the Hohls don’t sell engines to Russia, and there’s not much hope for Rybinsk Saturn, so they fuse three unfinished units and further production.
          2. dmi.pris
            dmi.pris 24 March 2016 09: 05
            +4
            We don't have time to rivet ?? If we were building a ship in a year, as in China, and there were a dozen more in line, then yes, we don't have time ... And when the ships are built for five years, or even more like "Gren", and even There are no components, there is simply NO POSSIBILITY TO RIVET .. Would do what is in the shipyards ..
        2. weksha50
          weksha50 23 March 2016 21: 48
          +2
          Quote: Ami du peuple
          Or it seemed to me?
          By the way, who is stopping really buying ready-made frigates of our project from India on mutually beneficial conditions?



          Hmm ... Good point ... But will India take such a step ??? To her - what is the benefit ???
          1. self-propelled
            self-propelled 23 March 2016 22: 35
            +1
            Quote: weksha50
            Hmm ... Good point ... But will India take such a step ??? To her - what is the benefit ???

            I think the Indians would not mind "stuffing their hand" in the production of these frigates. they seem to have stated more than once that they are interested not only (and not so much) in buying modern weapons, but also in producing them at their factories
          2. Evgeniy667b
            Evgeniy667b 24 March 2016 06: 05
            +1
            Yes, the idea is interesting! If the Indians build ships for our Navy, on the basis of barter, it would be very nice. And so, our fleets and without their participation shrank to the minimum possible. For Hindus, the direct benefit is to get away from begging and develop their technological chain. The progress is clear. They mastered the "Arihant"!
        3. Michael-rl
          Michael-rl 24 March 2016 00: 41
          0
          And why then this phrase?
          Earlier it was reported the intention of the Russian Federation to sell India the second three frigates of the 11356 project, destined to the Black Sea Fleet.

          As if it’s not that new - we sell our own.
          1. Maxom75
            Maxom75 24 March 2016 09: 33
            +3
            Three more are needed for the Black Sea Fleet of course, but a new project is needed - this one is already outdated. We need a more armed and launch complex of missiles with a carousel type of loading, rather than drum. It is the use of the carousel type that allows Amers to carry more missiles on their frigates than ours. Our fleet is imprisoned for a global conflict (which he had time to shoot and drowned), the Americans for a long local conflict (until everything is fired, and then they will give him a lift). We can’t afford a fleet five times bigger than the current one, which means we need to saturate the existing units with weapons as much as possible, and not drive half-empty ships (we always had problems with the layout, it always remains full of empty space).
        4. Andrey Yuryevich
          Andrey Yuryevich 24 March 2016 06: 02
          +2
          Quote: Ami du peuple
          It seems that production is organized at Indian shipyards in the interests of our Navy.

          why not Andryukha, they’ll probably build it faster ...
        5. Stirbjorn
          Stirbjorn 24 March 2016 08: 39
          0
          Quote: Ami du peuple
          Something is not clear from the publication for whom the ships will be built. It seems that production is organized at Indian shipyards in the interests of our Navy. Well, to get around sanctions-shkanktsii. Or it seemed to me?
          By the way, who is stopping really buying ready-made frigates of our project from India on mutually beneficial conditions?

          it won’t work out, because Ukrainian engines are all the same what is on our frigates, what is on Indian ones - and there the final recipient is indicated in the passport.
      2. jktu66
        jktu66 23 March 2016 20: 46
        +3
        In addition, the Indians will not throw, starting to stamp clones, like the Chinese, but will pay a license or give preferences
        1. Wiruz
          Wiruz 23 March 2016 20: 49
          +2
          In addition, the Indians will not throw

          Eh ... All our problems come from our sentimentality request
    2. Bkmz
      Bkmz 23 March 2016 20: 55
      +3
      Let the Indians build under their own licenses, and we will build our own, while we fulfill the contracts for the supply of ships over the hill, the ships will become obsolete, and we will only begin to rivet them for ourselves.
    3. Alex777
      Alex777 23 March 2016 23: 39
      0
      There is no our production without Ukrainian turbines.
      But they only need atomic boats and aircraft carriers.
    4. Blondy
      Blondy 24 March 2016 02: 15
      +5
      To be honest, I'm already tired of this jaunty PR about "maybe" on the coffee grounds. Because it may not be.
    5. Bayonet
      Bayonet 24 March 2016 06: 06
      0
      Quote: SAG
      Just to start, let them purchase our production with a dozen

      And what, there are already a dozen for sale? smile
      1. Stirbjorn
        Stirbjorn 24 March 2016 08: 41
        +1
        Quote: Bayonet
        And what, there are already a dozen for sale?
        at the moment, the Indians have already purchased 6 frigates from us, another 3 according to plans should be completed and sold, and then licensed production will be deployed in India. So 9 in the end will be built by us, almost the required ten fellow
    6. starshina78
      starshina78 24 March 2016 09: 41
      +1
      The ships are intended for the Black Sea Fleet, and must be completed and transferred to the Black Sea Fleet, not India. And for this we need to strain the minds of our designers and manufacturers in order to create and build turbines. It turns out that due to the lack of movers, we can completely stop building ships? Ukraine turbines Germany MIU engines, and what is there to replace? Where is Russian Diesel, where is Dagdizel, where are Rybinsk turbines? Stop buying technology and products abroad. We must develop and create ourselves!
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 24 March 2016 11: 16
        +3
        Quote: starshina78
        Ships are intended for the Black Sea Fleet, and should be completed and transferred to the Black Sea Fleet, and not India. And for this we need to strain the minds of our designers and manufacturers in order to create and build turbines.

        Yeah ... and after that valuable indication nine women will certainly have a baby in a month. I immediately remember a joke about mouse hedgehogs and a wise owl.

        Already strained. They received an answer - not earlier than 2018. Moreover, the first turbines will go to 22350 (especially since they need half as much turbines). That is, before 2019, the second pair of 11356 GEMs will not receive.

        During this time, you can manage to sell the second series already launched and standing at the wall without a power plant 11356 and build new ones.
        Or start building more modern 22350 instead of them. Because the only significant advantage of Project 11356 was that the fleet could quickly get new mid-range frigates, which would not have to be refined later (because 11356 is a slightly modified "Indian" project, debugged in production and licked for operation). If you have to wait until 2019, then the question arises - will they be needed then with the already worked out project 22350?
        Quote: starshina78
        Where is Russian Diesel, where is Dagdizel, where are Rybinsk turbines? Stop buying technology and products abroad. We must develop and create ourselves!

        "Russian diesel" died a long time ago.
        And what does Dagdizel have to do with ship power plants? This plant makes torpedoes and auxiliary diesel engines of low power.
        Zvezda and Kolomna are engaged in ship (not ship) diesel engines. Zvezda makes engines for ships no larger than a corvette. And with Kolomna there is an eternal battle for quality, because the plant is tightly seated on the orders of Russian Railways and for him ship diesel engines are related products (a lot of hemorrhoids and not enough money). Actually. it was from the experience of operating Kolomensky diesels and communicating with the plant that the fleet switched to MTU. smile

        The Rybinsk turbines will be in 2018. When the stand is completed and the GTE units imported by nikolayevets are imported.
  2. maxim1987
    maxim1987 23 March 2016 20: 12
    0
    keep quiet comrades .... No.
    1. Wiruz
      Wiruz 23 March 2016 20: 39
      +6
      Why is there something silent? At Indian shipyards, the licensed construction of domestically designed ships in the interests of the Indian Navy will probably begin. Will India owe us money for this? Naturally!
      Of course, if we built them ourselves, on the same Amber, it would be more profitable for us, from an economic point of view. But now it is necessary to save the power of shipyards - the fleet itself is crying hi
      1. Leprekon
        Leprekon 23 March 2016 20: 54
        +8
        Quote: Wiruz
        Now shipbuilding yards must be saved - the fleet itself is crying
        The fleet is crying due to the lack of domestic engines!
    2. kdale1980
      kdale1980 23 March 2016 20: 54
      +10
      Well, why "shut up" right away?
      It is quite logical to sell three frigates 11356 of the second batch to India and a license to build them in India under the circumstances.
      1. On the issue of selling three frigates.
      We have three frigate hulls, but there are no engines for them .. At least not yet .. Yes, we can supply them with weapons, navigation, control, target designation, radar systems, etc. etc., but this will make them just floating batteries of coastal defense ... Until the engines appear .. And before that they will stand at the wall and "rust" ... But selling them to India, and even from all over filling, we get money and free space at the shipyard .. And we can lay new hulls that will just be ready by the time the engines appear. And for this trio, I think India itself will find where to get the engines.
      2. On the issue of license and construction in India.
      Suppose we already have an engine for frigates. But factories can produce such engines, the amount of which can be counted on the fingers of one hand. Shipyards that can build them too. And so the Indians want to buy frigates from us. There is a dilemma - either move the ships according to the deadlines for their fleet or refuse to sell. Well, or to offer the Indians to wait until we ourselves all that we need to build. Although they think they will refuse this option, because there is basically a choice in the market. And so, so that there is no harm to your fleet, you can sell a license to the Indians. Let them build themselves, find engines for them, or buy from us. This will allow loading our shipyards with orders for themselves and updating the fleet faster (if the budget allows). And in the appendage, we can supply the Indians with weapons for frigates and the necessary electronics. It turns out that we are building ourselves and receive money in parallel. And the supply of weapons and electronics to the Indians will increase their series, and therefore reduce the cost of production. Which is again a plus.
      1. COJIDAT
        COJIDAT 23 March 2016 21: 03
        0
        Thanks for the competent explanation, I think everything will be so. Some kind of deja vu turns out, just like America did with Christie tanks during the Great Depression!
      2. Evgeniy667b
        Evgeniy667b 24 March 2016 06: 14
        0
        Why immediately "Rust at the wall". Arming frigates as floating batteries, they will be an important link in the defense !. The "Luttsov" acquired from Germany played precisely such a role, and made a very significant contribution to the counter-battery fight. And when there are power plants, then Forward!
        1. Stirbjorn
          Stirbjorn 24 March 2016 08: 44
          +1
          Quote: Evgeniy667b
          Why immediately "Rust at the wall". Arming frigates as floating batteries, they will be an important link in the defense !.
          What batteries - 21st century on the nose wassat Suggest to put more sails and forward into the open sea laughing
      3. Evgeniy667b
        Evgeniy667b 24 March 2016 06: 14
        0
        Why immediately "Rust against the wall". Arming frigates as floating batteries, they will be an important link in the defense !. The "Luttsov" acquired from Germany played precisely such a role, and made a very significant contribution to the counter-battery fight. And when there are power plants, then Forward! And having sold India, we will have nothing but money, which will simply dissolve into nowhere. This is already a dogma.
      4. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 24 March 2016 11: 18
        0
        Quote: kdale1980
        We have three frigate hulls, but no engines for them ..

        Two buildings. With "Kornilov" so far dark water.
  3. Alexander 3
    Alexander 3 23 March 2016 20: 20
    +5
    India is the main buyer of our weapons. And this is a lot of money that we always need. Part of this money will go to the construction of the next series of these frigates.
  4. samoletil18
    samoletil18 23 March 2016 20: 29
    +1
    They will not buy ours - they will buy them.
    1. Wiruz
      Wiruz 23 March 2016 20: 43
      +2
      Sit down, deuce! Not "theirs", but "them laughing
      But seriously, since 2001, India has been building its own frigates of the "Shivalik" type, which differ little from Project 11356, except for the presence of the Barak air defense system and 76mm artillery
  5. KnightRider
    KnightRider 23 March 2016 20: 38
    +2
    Su-30MKI localized, let the frigates try. Their legal proceedings are very developed, even destroyers are building
    1. Wiruz
      Wiruz 23 March 2016 20: 45
      0
      ABOUT! Calcutta! The destroyer is beautiful, but beautiful does not mean "good". So ... average
      1. lelikas
        lelikas 24 March 2016 00: 36
        0
        Quote: Wiruz
        ABOUT! Calcutta! The destroyer is beautiful, but beautiful does not mean "good". So ... average

        Despite the fact that they built them, almost on the knee ...
      2. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich 24 March 2016 06: 05
        +1
        Quote: Wiruz
        ABOUT! Calcutta! The destroyer is beautiful

        a controversial question ... our "sarych" -956, many times more beautiful ... sorry for the boat, dviglo-our headache.
  6. Boa kaa
    Boa kaa 23 March 2016 20: 44
    +4
    They chose this project at one time when they ordered the 1 batch of frigates.
    Once ready to order, with subsequent localization of production at home, then we will sell technology. We already have state-owned enterprises and new shipbuilding technologies. And the Indians in joy.
    So, "bhai-bhai!"
    3 unfinished housing for the Black Sea Fleet, we are ready to sell, because instead, they already planned 18 MRK on diesel engines.
    This is the situation today.
  7. maxim1987
    maxim1987 23 March 2016 20: 53
    +1
    Quote: Wiruz
    Will India owe us money for this? Naturally!


    there are many who owe us only more and more "forgive" or we
  8. Reserve buildbat
    Reserve buildbat 23 March 2016 21: 19
    +2
    Good) Let them build licensed ones. And we have money and at our shipyards there is more space for our ships.
  9. _NortoN_
    _NortoN_ 23 March 2016 22: 22
    +1
    and I’m not a lot against the sale themselves, the license is another thing let them rivet on health
  10. dtlmvfr11
    dtlmvfr11 24 March 2016 01: 52
    0
    sad All this is sad.
  11. gallville
    gallville 24 March 2016 02: 43
    0
    And what about the Chinese you can’t buy engines? They even build destroyers for themselves.
    Especially close cooperation in the field of military industrial complex.
    By the way, how exactly is frigate 11356 an excellent project. Well, except that the AK-630 for broadsword change.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 24 March 2016 11: 31
      0
      Quote: gallville
      And what about the Chinese you can’t buy engines? They even build destroyers for themselves.

      EMNIP, Chinese GTD are made in close cooperation with the same Ukraine.
      In general, in addition to "Zori", there are only 2 "primary" companies producing ship-borne gas turbine engines in the world: GE and RR. All the rest are tied in various ways to someone from this trio and can suffer large losses if the terms of the agreements are not followed.
  12. Koronik
    Koronik 24 March 2016 04: 25
    0
    "It's all sad."
    Well, let’s cry again, my dears, so far only negotiations are underway and if an agreement is reached, I don’t think it will be to the detriment of the Russian fleet. Those days have passed when we traded the country on the right and on the left, we will be optimistic.
    1. SklochPensioner
      SklochPensioner 24 March 2016 06: 49
      +1
      Quote: Koronik
      Gone are the days when they traded the country on the right and on the left, we will be optimistic.

      I agree, we will.
      And Bush is a visionary, but in one thing he is wrong: we are not vindictive ...)))
      1. Stirbjorn
        Stirbjorn 24 March 2016 08: 46
        0
        Quote: SklochPensioner
        I agree, we will.
        And Bush is a visionary, but in one thing he is wrong: we are not vindictive ...)))

        We are still very far from the power of the USSR
  13. VP
    VP 24 March 2016 06: 03
    0
    It is interesting that in the hitch to these frigates they will still be imposed.
    If the deal takes place it will be complex and, I am sure, not on the terms of India - this is not the case.
    1. Bayonet
      Bayonet 24 March 2016 06: 13
      +1
      Quote: VP
      If the deal takes place it will be complex and, I am sure, not on the terms of India - this is not the case.

      With the Indians bargain, that gypsies fool! So let's see ...
  14. VP
    VP 24 March 2016 06: 37
    +1
    Quote: Bayonet
    With the Indians bargain, that gypsies fool! So let's see ...

    There is a strong hook.
    They are now focusing on the fleet.
    And I don’t think that anyone other than us is now able to give them new ships of the same class. Moreover, according to reviews, the project is really good.
    And the hook - the Indians want another submarine. Which no one except the Russian Federation can give them.
    A bread-box opens on Ash, but ours politely pointed to Shark. Their shark, according to operating experience, is quite satisfied.
  15. SPIKER
    SPIKER 24 March 2016 08: 10
    0
    Eh, would rather "Saturn" get hotter, then the problem of GTZA would disappear, but the whole trouble is in the stand for "purging" the units !!! production, the only way out ... for now, and there "we'll see" !!!
    1. VP
      VP 24 March 2016 08: 51
      0
      Quote: SPIKER
      They write that they are installing the stand, but it will take more than one year

      And what is the reason if you know what is what?
      Under the Union, too, did they set a five-year plan?
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 24 March 2016 11: 39
        +1
        Quote: VP
        Under the Union, too, did they set a five-year plan?

        So the USSR has long been gone. And the Russian Federation is far from the Union.

        We are now in the situation of the beginning of the 30s of the last century. At that time, the same leader "Leningrad" was being built for 6 years (the postponement of the delivery from one five-year plan to another was generally an ordinary event). And for some of the destroyers they bought GTZA from Vickers, because the domestic industry was sewn up.
        1. VP
          VP 24 March 2016 21: 00
          0
          The comparison is incorrect for one reason.
          Which is that it is easier to repeat the technology of thirty years ago (as with a stand) than to master a new one (as in the 30s)
          1. Alexey RA
            Alexey RA 25 March 2016 10: 50
            0
            Quote: VP
            Which is that it is easier to repeat the technology of thirty years ago (as with a stand) than to master a new one (as in the 30s)

            So in the 30s, for the most part, they also tried to restore old technologies. The same Izhora plant restored armor production for more than 10 years, but even in 1938 refused to produce armored plates with a thickness of more than 200 mm.

            And, again, the stand was built in the USSR, and even under the existing CMEA. PMSM, now it will be difficult to repeat it for the reason that parts of the factories that installed systems and components on this stand are no longer alive. Yes, and part of the technical solutions. used in the Soviet booth is already outdated (primarily in terms of data processing). And this means that this stand will have to be partially done again.
  16. kvampaku
    kvampaku 24 March 2016 08: 24
    +1
    Selling is not a problem. The main thing is that our defense industry survived and remain competitive
  17. Wolka
    Wolka 24 March 2016 09: 11
    +2
    it is impossible to establish production in foreign states, even "loyal" ones, those military models in which we ourselves are acutely lacking, the example of the Mistrals is obvious ..., first, in sufficient quantities, then a license to sell
  18. Vetal999
    Vetal999 24 March 2016 10: 32
    0
    In my opinion, this is not necessary. Why pay "someone else's uncle" to build ships for us? We can build them ourselves. And we'd better build them ourselves. Why develop someone else's economy?
    Some idiocy!
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 24 March 2016 16: 08
      0
      Quote: Vetal999
      In my opinion, this is not necessary. Why pay "someone else's uncle" to build ships for us? We can build them ourselves

      Until 2018 - we can’t. And in 2018 it is not a fact that then we will still need them.

      Maybe you should not continue the long tradition of the Russian and Soviet fleets with the serial construction of ships of obsolete projects?
  19. Tektor
    Tektor 24 March 2016 12: 11
    +1
    Building the frigates of Project 11356 in India is a very sensible idea. Entirely - for! These are frigates of the previous generation, proven horses, so to speak, and their production is debugged. You can easily make money on it. We need to raise a new generation in the person of project 22350 Gorshkov, although they are now prohibitively expensive, but only such can be won in the future.