Opinion "Saab" on counterproductive stealth aviation in terms of the use of new DRLO aircraft erroneously

66

A very impressive "stratospheric photoshop" of the future project of the early warning and control aircraft from Saab AB - "GlobalEye AEW & C". Due to its excellent flight performance, the Canadian-Swedish radar patrol and guidance aircraft is capable of operating 3-5 km higher than its counterparts. The machine project is also called the Swing Role Surveillance System (SRSS). The first contract for the most "far-sighted" aerial radars was signed with the United Arab Emirates, its cost is 1270 million dollars. Various modifications of early warning aircraft from the Saab AB unit have already entered service with the air forces of states such as Saudi Arabia, Greece, Thailand, Pakistan and Brazil; the main operator, of course, is the Swedish Air Force


A FEW MYTHS ABOUT RADIO

Huge disagreements are accompanied by any disputes of military experts regarding the effectiveness of the use of stealth aircraft and tactical aircraft at a modern theater of operations filled with a wide variety of radar systems, among which aviation DRLO complexes, and ground-based surveillance / multifunctional radars of the air defense system, and radar of the radio engineering troops.

But the greatest number of myths, of course, were given to meter-range radars, which, according to some "experts", are capable of detecting unobtrusive tactical aircraft at a distance of 100 and more than kilometers. Curiously, this information is absolutely not supported by any scientific theories of radar systems, but is explained only by a single case of intercepting the American F-117A "Nighthawk" anti-aircraft guided missile 5В27D of the Yugoslav S-125 "Neva" air defense missile, the division of which, apparently, could not be Joe. the detectors of the meter range P-12 "Yenisei" and P-18 "Terek". But these radars are absolutely not involved in the radio command guidance of 5B27D missiles at the target, but only carry out a review of the airspace and target designation for the X-band SNR-125, which is also involved in accurate targeting of missiles to the target. It is also assumed that the guidance of the missile during the interception of "Nighthook" could be made according to the data of the Phillips thermal sighting system, which was mentioned by the commander of the 3 battery Zlotan Dani. This version is closest to reality, because the pilot Dale Zelko said that the plane was intercepted immediately after departure from the lower edge of dense clouds: initially the plane was accompanied by П-12 / 18 and СНР-125, and the thermal imaging system also received target designation.

According to the report on the destruction of the aircraft, compiled by the deputy commander of the battery, Lieutenant Colonel George Anicic, F-117A first appeared on the indicators of the Neva operators at a distance of 23 km, which corresponds to the target detection range with the EPR about 0,1 m 2 (F-117A) station SNR -125. Meter radars do not show any “super-abilities” for detecting small-sized targets, since the meter-range waves, like decimeter and centimeter, have an equal reflection coefficient from objects that have larger dimensions than the wavelength. Remember: the extra-small balls released during the experiment from the American Shuttle were detected by the centimeter multifunctional radar complex Don-2Н.

But, in addition to the empty debates of observers on the capabilities of various frequency ranges of military radar, about which almost everything is known and logically clear, even the representations of some eminent companies and corporations are beginning to surprise with all sorts of “pearls” regarding a possible change in the concept of military equipment of the new generation to advertise their “top-down” projects or programs.

REAL OPPORTUNITIES OF THE SWEDISH CONCEPT OF RADAR DOSOR AND GUIDANCE

So, the company "Saab", working on the project of a promising multipurpose surveillance aircraft / AWACS "GlobalEye AEW & C", hastened to declare that due to the increased detection range of its radar complex, the new operational-tactical situation in the air will lead to a loss of interest in the development of stealth technology from leading manufacturers of tactical and strategic combat aircraft. The statement is quite bold, but does the new project from Saab match it?

The S-88 developed on the basis of the American SA.227AC Metro III, which is located in the Swedish Air Force as a short-range passenger aircraft for delivering small cargoes of special purpose and accommodating commanders, became the firstborn among the experimental airplanes of the AWACS for the Swedish Air Force. Radar with 2-sided AFAR FSR-890 produced by Ericsson was installed on the upper outer part of the fuselage on special supports. The fixed radome radome is located along the fuselage, which practically does not increase the area of ​​the mid-section, and, accordingly, the aerodynamic resistance is much less than that of the DRLO aircraft with a rotating E-3C radome. Radar FSR-890, by the standards of technology 1991, had excellent performance characteristics, allowing you to detect a target of the type "F-16" at a distance of 300 km. The Swedish Air Force is guided by the concept of basing the BAS 90 aircraft, according to which the aircraft can be promptly deployed on unprepared runways and platforms in the most diverse and little-known places of the state, which in combat with the TFR can sustain a large part of the air force fleet . Initially, the BAS 90 concept was adjusted to the tactics of using Gripen fighter jets, but some of its details migrated to reconnaissance aircraft, in particular, to DRLO airplanes, due to which all airborne radar systems are based on compact aircraft of type SA .227AC Metro III, EMB-145 or S-100B Argus.


One of the most common modifications of AWACS aircraft from Saab AB is the Saab 2000 AEW & C turboprop. This board (pictured) is part of the Pakistani Air Force. Unlike the developed jet "GlobalEye", this aircraft has lower flight characteristics and a standard dorsal radar PS-890 with a range of 450 km, some of its parameters will be shown in the lower image. The machine is developed on the basis of the Saab 2000 turboprop passenger aircraft, so the maximum speed with the radar fairing is about 620 - 650 km / h, and the service ceiling is only 9200 meters. The range of this aircraft is about 1100 km, and therefore it cannot be considered a strategic air command post, which today includes most RLDN aircraft based on wide-body airliners or military transport aircraft (A-50U, being developed by A-100 and Boeing E- 767)



The diagram shows the spatial coverage area of ​​the PS-890 radar (red field is the main lobe of the elevation diagram): it is clearly seen that the radio horizon for the Saab 2000 AEW & C (at a 7-kilometer flight altitude) starts at a range of 370 km. The gray field represents the directional diagram of the ground-based radar complex; a small range of the radio horizon is noticeable on it (just over 50 km), and this is provided that the ground radar is located on a universal tower, or a natural elevation on the ground


The latest development of the Swedish "Saab" - observation aircraft / DRLO, developed on the basis of the Canadian long-range administrative aircraft Bombardier Global Express 6000. The machine is created by order of the UAE Air Force, decorated at the end of 2015 year. The new “stratospheric observer”, despite its moderate size for RLDN aircraft, will receive a lot of technological bells and whistles and “advantages”.

First, the aircraft will have a huge range, in 5 — 6 thousand km, and the maximum speed will be 900 km / h. This will allow you to quickly get to the theater and quickly start duty. At a distance of 4000 km from the take-off location, this aircraft will be able to carry out duty for 8 hours at a speed of 500 km / h, which is approximately 2 times higher than that of E-3C; and all this without refueling. Naturally, the car can be equipped with a refueling unit, which will further increase the range and time of flight.

Secondly, "GlobalEye AEW & C" (MSA, multirole surveillance aircraft, the name of the concept is "Saab") is able to conduct duty at an altitude of 15,5 km, which is already an important advantage among aircraft of this type, since the radio horizon significantly increases both in the air and for radio-emitting ground targets. This allows you to stay at a greater distance from the theater of operations.

Thirdly, the new multi-mode Erieye ER radar with AFAR has a 2 times higher radiation power of each APM antenna array, as well as an increased sensitivity of their receiving channel, which increased the detection range of typical air targets of the "fighter" type by about 80% (about 780 km). This radar is an improved version of the FSR-890 "Ericsson Erieye" and operates at a frequency of about 3,2 GHz decimeter S-band, which indicates the technical feasibility of implementing the target designation mode for missiles and air-to-air missiles with active radar seeker launched from other air or sea / land carriers. It is worth noting that the "Erieye ER", thanks to the S-band, has better accuracy in determining the coordinates of the target in comparison with such stationary radars as MESA (installed on Turkish aircraft AWACS Boeing 737AEW & C "Peace Eagle"). Developed by Northrop Grumman, MESA operates in the L-band at a lower frequency (approximately 1,5 GHz) with a wavelength of 15-30 cm, which affects accuracy.


Radiolucent fairing radar complex "Erieye ER". The two-sided AFAR cloth hidden in it with a length of 9,75 m and a width of 0,78 m is capable of functioning in the “one-sided” mode. In this case, one party can use a much larger energy potential, which contributes to an increase in the detection range of aerial and ground / surface targets. Landing boats can be detected at a distance of 100 and more than kilometers, large ships of the frigate / destroyer / cruiser class - over 300 km. The high accuracy and stability of the Erieye work is facilitated by the developed air cooling system of antenna arrays, the main part of which is a large air intake of rectangular cross section in the front part of the fairing, which is divided into two air ducts, enveloping the panel of antenna arrays


Erickson's "Erieye ER" also has a drawback: in the front hemisphere (PHS) and the rear hemisphere (RPS) there are 2 "blind zones" with a spatial angle of 60 degrees, they are not covered by the solid angle of the antenna arrays. But given the almost 1,8 times greater detection range, this drawback can be easily compensated for by a periodic smooth change in the course direction within +/- 30 degrees. But can this advanced AWACS and U aircraft lead to a decrease in customer interest in stealth fighters and VTOs only due to its high detection range?

Imagine a hypothetical theater of military operations, which uses the Saab airborne DRLO with the Erieye ER radar, the super-maneuverable multi-role Su-30CM tactical fighters (as representatives of the 4 ++ generation) and the inconspicuous T-50 PAK FA. “Thirties”, hung with various rocket precision weapons at external points of the suspension, will have an EPR to 7-10 м2, and therefore will be detected by “Erieye ER” at maximum distances over 750 km. In this case, the Khibiny EW complex, although it will create the most serious problems with detection for the DRLO aircraft, the main task, to hide the fact of its presence in the airspace of the theater, will not be performed, because the part of the space where the radioelectronic interference. Ground or naval air defense / missile defense systems will be immediately notified to the rocket-hazardous direction. As a result, they can manage to deploy in advance multifunctional radars of the air defense system in this direction, which will reduce the response time and increase the chances of a more successful reflection of the strike.

The use of T-50 PAK-FA will be completely different tactics. The perspective aviation complex of the 5 generation, regardless of the range of weapons in the internal compartments, has an EPR within 0,2 m 2 (according to official data). The plane absolutely does not need to use the REB complex until it is detected by enemy radar equipment. Radar "Erieye ER" can detect T-50 at a distance of no more than 200 - 250 km. Agree that the 3-multiple difference in detection range between 4-th and 5-th generation machines is a huge tactical advantage for the latter. From a distance of 245 km, the PAK-FA can launch 4-flywheel anti-radar X-58USHKE missiles, and from 285 km - long-range tactical cruise missiles of the X-59MK2 type, which also have a pronounced stealth design (square section of the hull and fairing). composites). T-50 will be able to launch the WTO from minimum distances, imperceptibly for the enemy's AWACS, the approach of which will be known only when the missiles approach 100 - 150 km. With massive use of the latter, the enemy will not get a chance to successfully repel a missile strike, since the flying time will be a few minutes. With the use of aviation 4-generation, this time can be tens of minutes.

It is for this reason that all of the aforementioned Saab statements about the futility of stealth aircraft are nothing more than an ill-conceived PR move to advertise a new AWACS aircraft, also known as GlobalEye AEW & C.
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  1. +1
    23 March 2016 06: 59
    And what about Russia ??? They think our build new aircraft AWACS, which in the USSR was not enough ??? Or are there more important tasks, buying football clubs, real estate in Nice, new yachts and holding different championships there?
    1. 0
      23 March 2016 18: 46
      Quote: qwert
      And what about Russia ???

      A-100 "Premier", the successor of the traditions of the A-50, based on the Il-476, but the radar ... something very powerful there will be. It's just that it's completely unclear at what stage this project is now.
      1. 0
        23 March 2016 20: 03
        The T-50 will be able to launch the WTO from the minimum distances, invisible to the enemy’s AWAC, which will only be known when the missiles approach the distance 100 - 150 km.

        Not everything is so rosy during launches the opening of the aircraft hatches and the layout of the aerodynamic surfaces of missiles sharply increases the radar reflected signal and gives short flare when scanning. It is not necessary to consider the operators of the AWACS complex as boobies - these signals will definitely qualify as missile launches.
  2. 0
    23 March 2016 07: 04
    The use of T-50 PAK-FA will take place ...

    Julitta is going, someday she will be.
  3. FID
    +5
    23 March 2016 08: 32
    Theoretical calculations - yes ... Practice is the queen of theory!
    1. +3
      23 March 2016 15: 42
      Practice is the queen of theory!


      That surprised me. Myasischevsky M-55, just to stay on the ceiling for 20 km, required a unique wing of variable profile and area. And the engines in general give off only 3% of the thrust on the ground (instead of 19 tons of 670 kg !!!) So this huge wing only holds 1,5 tons of payload.
      And then the usual cuttlefish and even with an antenna on the hump. Or 15 km is already so, garbage?
      What the hell then are our M-55s hiring for Arctic research, if so simple?
    2. -1
      24 March 2016 03: 15
      "Legs, legs ... Wings are IN !!!" (c) drinks
  4. +27
    23 March 2016 08: 35
    Meter radars do not show any “superpowers” ​​for detecting small targets, since meter wavelengths, like decimeter and centimeter ones, have the same reflection coefficient from objects that are larger than the wavelength.

    My uncle apparently read foreign magazines with the performance characteristics of airplanes, and I started up electrodynamics at the institute on my own roll or didn’t study in this profile at all.
    The ESR of a particular object depends on its shape, size, material from which it is made, on its orientation (angle) with respect to the antennas of the radar transmitter and receiver positions (including the polarization of electromagnetic waves), from the wavelength of the probing radio signal

    And this effective dispersion area is calculated primarily under the frequency of interception systems (currently mainly 3 cm). Accordingly, the shape of the fuselage and the shape of the air intakes and the thickness of the radar absorbing coating are also sharpened for this ...
    And all this behaves differently at different irradiation frequencies. Checked in anechoic chamber personally. Sometimes you get the exact opposite result from the expected at different frequencies.
    1. +4
      23 March 2016 19: 39
      Quote: Iline
      Uncle apparently read foreign magazines with TTX aircraft

      No wonder they say "paper will endure everything." The topic of AWACS aircraft with lateral AFAR and synthetic aperture is really interesting, these developments have been underway for more than 10 years. The only pity is that amateurs write about them.
      the most myths, of course, were awarded to the meter range radars
      Unlike the author, he began his service on these radars and the "myths" have not only a clear theoretical foundation, but also practical confirmation. Radar portraits of all Stealth aircraft in all frequency ranges have long been in special reference books and databases. It is enough to issue an admission and get acquainted.
      Erieye ER will be detected at maximum ranges of over 750 km
      . Strange, elementary and well-known things are myth for the author, but there are fantastic detection ranges that not all ground-based radars can realize due to insufficient energy potential for the author, for some reason, reality.
      According to Swedish experts, the system is capable of detecting and tracking cruise missiles and small targets with an effective reflective surface of less than 1 m2. During demonstration flights, it provided detection of low-altitude air targets at ranges of up to 400 km, ground and surface - up to 300 km.
      http://www.airwar.ru/enc/spy/saab340.html#camo

      Special attention should be paid to the "opinion of Swedish experts". There are experts, but there are no specialists and even more so scientists in the field of radar.
      There was a case when a British radar station from BAE Systems was brought to us for demonstration tests. According to advertising booklets, it also had a detection range of 600 km, ultra-precise and ultra-reliable. And in fact, the energy potential turned out to be at the level of the P-37 with exactly the same detection range, and it was able to turn on only after our experts explained to the British that lamp generators of the TWT type should be "toughened" after replacement.
      As a result, at a press conference, a representative of BAE Systems said that thanks to our (still Soviet) specialists, they learned their radar even better.
  5. +12
    23 March 2016 08: 35
    Let the author answer me why the L-band wing radars are in addition to the main X-band radar on the PAK FA T-50? But because if the reflectivity is the same for waves according to the author, the radar absorbing materials work in a rather narrow range of wavelengths. Therefore, dear author, meter wavelengths detect such targets better, since they are least absorbed by these coatings. And in general, read Ufimtsev.
    1. FID
      +7
      23 March 2016 09: 00
      Does he know how to read? Or reads only what suits him?
      1. +1
        24 March 2016 03: 21
        "Chukchi is not a reader! Chukchi is a writer!" (from)
        Py.Sy. I apologize hi among the Chukchi people. I just remembered a joke. feel
    2. +2
      23 March 2016 09: 14
      Quote: Engineer
      Let the author answer me why the L-band wing radars are in addition to the main X-band radar on the PAK FA T-50? But because if the reflectivity is the same for waves according to the author, the radar absorbing materials work in a rather narrow range of wavelengths. Therefore, dear author, meter wavelengths detect such targets better, since they are least absorbed by these coatings. And in general, read Ufimtsev.


      Have you read Ufimtsev yourself? I would advise you to start not with him. And for example, from the basics.
      P.A. Bakulev - radar systems.
      Sosulin Yu.G. - the basics of radar. A bit more complicated
      This is for the first courses of universities.
      And then you will understand that not only the author is wrong, but you too.

      The ESR of the object is inversely proportional to the wavelength of the locator. Long-wave locators see further only objects with a LARER EPR, since there is less attenuation coefficient - for example, an AWACS plane. But they see worse smaller objects.
      1. +8
        23 March 2016 10: 09
        Quote: Falcon
        But they see worse smaller objects.

        Yes, they all see. Detection range and resolution are not the same for locators. EPR is a rather ephemeral quantity, which is a virtual metal sheet of the corresponding area, located perpendicular to the radiation source, but only calculated for a certain wavelength. Hence, the detection ranges are considered.
        Here ssi wisely answered
        Quote: SSI
        Theoretical calculations - yes ... Practice is the queen of theory!

        So in practice it turns out, again I repeat that, taking into account the real design of the aircraft, this EPR is far from necessarily inversely proportional to the wavelength of the locator, because EPR itself is changing. Your statement is relevant again for a sheet of metal with a constant area for different wavelengths, but in this case there is no such constancy.
        It is clear that small objects are more difficult to detect, but that's another story.
        1. FID
          +2
          23 March 2016 10: 41
          Quote: Iline
          Your statement

          What statement? The only thing I can assume is that all the arguments about "invisibility", "EPR", and other speculations refer to ground-based, or located AT THE SAME altitude (relatively) radar stations ... Raise them HIGHER ... And against the background of the Earth ...
          1. 0
            23 March 2016 11: 54
            "Your statement" does not refer to you, but to the Falcon.
            1. FID
              0
              23 March 2016 12: 20
              Quote: Iline
              "Your statement" does not refer to you, but to the Falcon.

              I apologize!
        2. +1
          23 March 2016 12: 05
          Quote: Iline
          So in practice it turns out, again I repeat that, taking into account the real design of the aircraft, this EPR is far from necessarily inversely proportional to the wavelength of the locator, because EPR itself is changing. Your statement is relevant again for a sheet of metal with a constant area for different wavelengths, but in this case there is no such constancy.


          Yes, you are right, in reality you need to build a DOR to determine the RCS in a particular case. A multidirectional signal can arrive at one point, and an increase in the resulting amplitude occurs - then the so-called. "shiny dots". However, there are also points with a decrease in amplitude and a failure of the DOR ...

          Since the argument is theoretical, it is still based on the fundamental principles of radar, the meaning is this.
        3. The comment was deleted.
        4. +1
          23 March 2016 18: 31
          which is a virtual metal sheet of the corresponding area, perpendicular to the radiation source,


          Nowadays it was an isotropically scattering sphere smile (and its cross-sectional area) Where did the leaflet come from in the wiki, I will not apply. By the way, one of my favorite questions "about a ball, a steel sheet and a sheet of plywood" laughing Voskresensky
  6. 0
    23 March 2016 09: 13
    Quote: article
    The T-50 will be able to launch the WTO from minimum distances, invisibly to the enemy’s AWAC, which will only be known when the missiles come closer to a distance of 100-150 km. With a massive use of the latter, the enemy will not get a chance of successfully repelling a missile strike, since the flight time will be a matter of minutes.

    Hm. And how many Kh-58/59 missiles can the T-50y carry in their internal compartments? One or two, no more, I think so. Those. for a massive one that leaves no chance of reflection, several dozens of cars will be required. A question for connoisseurs: probably such a large flock can be detected from even greater distances than a single aircraft?

    Of course, there are still REP assets in the person of the same "Khibiny", but so far there is no understanding of how effective they will be against these new radars. Again, the surprise effect is down the drain.
    1. +5
      23 March 2016 09: 22
      Quote: Kalmar
      Hm. And how many X-58 / 59 missiles can the T-50 carry in its internal compartments? One or two, no more, I think so.


      Two in each compartment, i.e. in theory 4 pcs.

      Quote: Kalmar
      Of course, there are still REP funds in the person of the same "Khibiny"


      The Khabina is designed against AGSN missiles; it is not entirely against the radar.
      1. -1
        23 March 2016 09: 53
        Quote: Falcon
        Two in each compartment, i.e. in theory 4 pcs.

        This is if without air-to-air missiles, PTB and other things. In real conditions, hardly anyone will fly like that, I think.
  7. +4
    23 March 2016 09: 21
    ESR of the destroyer ~ 10000 sq.m, Su-35 with weapons on the external load ~ 10 sq.m, T-50 with weapons on the external load ~ 0,1 sq.m, cruise missile X-101 ~ 0,01 sq.m.

    Accordingly, the destroyer will be detected by the AWACS radar at the 500 km radio horizon, Su-35 at 300 km, T-50 at 150 km, X-101 at 125 km.
  8. +3
    23 March 2016 09: 26
    What about radar detection of an air vortex in the form of a satellite stream?
  9. FID
    +2
    23 March 2016 09: 52
    Yes, because from space everything is visible, in the usual visual range ...
    1. +1
      23 March 2016 10: 04
      Quote: SSI
      Yes, you see everything from space, in the usual visual range ..

      ... and if it is overcast?
      1. FID
        +4
        23 March 2016 10: 09
        Quote: V.ic
        ... and if it is overcast?

        Where? Yes, God bless him, the visual range ... There is a scale of e / m waves, which range will suit you? I emphasize from space (from it, darling, even p / boats are visible ...).
    2. +1
      23 March 2016 10: 40
      Space is also a thing ... ambiguous.
      Changing the trajectory - the thing is quite complicated.
      Satellites in low orbit are vulnerable to damage, in medium and high orbits they have a rather long "response" time

      As a result, continuous monitoring of the area cannot be ensured. So without land and aviation systems, no way.
      1. FID
        0
        23 March 2016 11: 08
        Quote: Spade
        As a result, continuous monitoring of the area cannot be ensured.

        There is such a thing - a geostationary satellite ...
        1. 0
          23 March 2016 11: 13
          Geostationary reconnaissance satellite?
          1. FID
            +2
            23 March 2016 11: 25
            A weather satellite can, a tele -... maybe, but a reconnaissance one - no? The logic is strange, but it has to be ... I wonder if the states also think or do they still hang up reconnaissance geostationaries?
        2. +1
          23 March 2016 11: 26
          Quote: SSI
          There is such a thing - a geostationary satellite ...

          If you need to reliably keep the entire globe under surveillance, these same geostationary satellites will require a huge amount. Such floodlights, even the Americans can not afford.
          1. FID
            +4
            23 March 2016 11: 44
            Quote: Kalmar
            If you need to reliably keep the entire globe under surveillance, these same geostationary satellites will require a huge amount.

            Yes you what! At a latitude of 60 °, the visible sector of the surface is approximately 140 °, for the entire surface, I think, 3 satellites are enough ... A huge amount, yes ...
            1. +1
              23 March 2016 12: 06
              Quote: SSI
              Yes you what! At a latitude of 60 °, the visible sector of the surface is approximately 140 °, for the entire surface, I think, 3 satellites are enough ... A huge amount, yes ...

              Eh, it's a pity that you weren't there when the Legend was being designed: satellites were stamped, driven in low orbits and drowned one after another to no avail. And all that was needed was to throw three of them into geostationary orbits ...

              What I mean is that if you just need general views of the "Earth in general" type, then yes, three satellites will be enough for your eyes. But the military - they are fussy, give them a picture on which you can even distinguish a small fighter, and even track these same fighters in large numbers and on a time scale close to real ... It's not like three, thirty spacecraft is not a fact, that's enough. And if it were otherwise, AWACS aircraft would have died out as a class.
              1. FID
                0
                23 March 2016 12: 18
                Quote: Kalmar
                And if it were different, AWACS planes would have already become extinct as a class.

                And they are dying out ... They do not fly for air defense purposes, believe me ... Yes, for me "Legend" is like for a piano miner - I don't know, and besides .... And 30 spacecraft is that a lot? 32 for GLONASS - like nothing ...
                1. +1
                  23 March 2016 12: 30
                  Quote: SSI
                  And they are dying ...

                  That is why no serious operation can do without them. And all sorts of imperialist AUGs without their "Hokayev" - as without hands.

                  Quote: SSI
                  And 30 KA is that much? 32 for GLONASS - it seems nothing ...

                  Compare ... One thing is the navigation satellite, which simply broadcasts, conditionally, its location. And quite another - reconnaissance spacecraft with a bunch of sophisticated equipment for shooting with high resolution in different ranges and reliable transmission of the received data to Earth.
                  1. FID
                    0
                    23 March 2016 12: 36
                    Quote: Kalmar
                    And all sorts of imperialist AUGs without their "Hokaev" - as without hands.

                    You read inattentively - NOT FOR AIR ... Target designation of ground (water) targets ...
                    1. 0
                      23 March 2016 12: 59
                      Quote: SSI
                      You read inattentively - NOT FOR AIR ... Target designation of ground (water) targets ...

                      I read the bourgeois Wikipedia:
                      Quote: bourgeois wikipedia
                      According to the Navy's NIFC-CA concept, the E-2D could guide fleet weapons, such as AIM-120 AMRAAM and SM-6 missiles, onto targets beyond a launch platform's detection range or capabilities.

                      Those. the aforementioned "Hawkeye" is involved in the issuance of CU, including for missiles. And its new radar - APY-9 - seems to be quite capable of detecting air targets (including "stealth") at quite decent distances for air defense missions.
                    2. The comment was deleted.
            2. The comment was deleted.
  10. +6
    23 March 2016 11: 31
    The author is poorly versed in physics and even technology.
    Since when did the X-58USHKE become able to work on AWACS aircraft ?! What a market chatter! fool
    This Damantsev simply puts on the flow of the article without any objectivity. The usual talker hack.

    To combat AWACS there are special missiles RVV-SD and R-29 with passive seeker.
    Also, heavy RVV-DBs are used to combat AWACS, which, due to their massiveness, are not very suitable for working on fighters,

    Long-wave radar equipment is cumbersome. The shorter the waves, the easier the equipment and more accurate detection. But short waves do not have the ability to go around the earth.
    This SAAB is trying to eliminate this drawback - to rise higher and increase the radiation power due to the longer horizon.

    The wavelength, in principle, cannot be larger than the size of the antenna of the emitting element AFAR.
    Look at the antenna of this SAAB and it will become clear that the antenna emits short waves.
    For which the invisible aircraft are intended.

    Further, according to the article, I will not write anything else.
    Sound common truths that at least half of readers already know.
    1. -1
      23 March 2016 12: 17
      The minimum size of the receiving-emitting element is a quarter of the wavelength.
      With the use of metamaterials - less.
      1. 0
        23 March 2016 14: 20
        Quote: Operator
        The minimum size of the receiving-emitting element is quarters wavelengths.

        Textbook Belotserkovsky G.B. "Fundamentals of Radio Engineering and Antenna" states that half wave The vibrator is sufficient for reception and transmission. But if the quarter wave, then without special matching devices can not do.
    2. 0
      23 March 2016 13: 06
      Learn to read properly, "expert"! The article indicates that the X-58USHKE PRLR can be launched at a target (ground-based MRS) from a distance of 245 km, from where even the carrier (PAK-FA) itself will not yet be detected by the "Saab" radar. USHKE, which also has a low ESR, will locate the enemy AWACS already on approach, leaving minimal time for interception. There is no talk of any defeat of AWACS with the X-58)
  11. +2
    23 March 2016 11: 34
    Zlotan Dani published a detailed guide on how he shot down the F-117, I did not see any mention of Philips thermal imagers there. Either the author of this article is brazenly lying, attributing these words to him, or I did not read it carefully.
    1. -1
      23 March 2016 12: 15
      Do not give a link?
      1. 0
        23 March 2016 12: 19
        Dam, but only in the evening, if there is patience, because now I’m sailing from the Internet, I will have to look again.
      2. 0
        24 March 2016 18: 03
        Here is a link to a domestic compilation from that article. The link from there used to lead to an article on the Strategy Page, now there is no article there, there’s no time to dig further. https://lenta.ru/articles/2005/11/23/f117/
        1. -1
          24 March 2016 18: 41
          Thanks so much for the link.
        2. The comment was deleted.
  12. +3
    23 March 2016 12: 03
    In general, the STELS technology provides for a whole set of methods and means that reduce the visibility of aircraft, tank ships, etc. in all wavelength ranges used to detect targets. These methods and tools include: the use of special housing geometry, the use of absorbing materials, the installation of heat filters on heat sources, etc. Naturally, the effectiveness of these methods and tools depends on many factors, but in general their use seriously complicates the detection and tracking of targets on which they are used. Therefore, all kinds of loud statements that someone has achieved 100% invisibility of the target or someone has developed a tool that provides the 100 percent probability of its successful detection and tracking should be regarded as PR and nothing else. Well, I want some kind of business to work out his next development to as many customers as possible. And it would be strange if I did not try.
    As for the downed F117, the number of legends about this particular case has long exceeded all permissible limits. The fact is that the F117 played its role in a number of conflicts quite convincingly and allowed to develop the STELS technologies that are now quite successfully used in modern ship aircraft, etc.
  13. 0
    24 March 2016 03: 53
    For some reason, everyone forgets (well, or does not mention) that besides this case, there was a second one, a month later, when the second Goblin was damaged, but managed to land safely in Aviano.
    And by the way, the first one was shot down at 9 pm, i.e., actually at night.
    Another P-18 radar and, especially, P-12 were already obsolete and painfully familiar. The first, if sclerosis does not change, there were only 5, the second -4
  14. 0
    24 March 2016 12: 18
    Firstly, the aircraft will have a huge range of 5-6 thousand km, with a maximum speed of 900 km / h. This will allow you to quickly get to the theater and quickly begin duty. At a distance of 4000 km from the take-off point, this aircraft will be able to carry out duty for 8 hours at a speed of 500 km / h, which is about 2 times higher than that of the E-3C

    Not only is the translation ... muggling, lame. So also the author of the article is not on friendly terms with arithmetic. The maximum range is indicated, 6 thousand km. The distance of the patrol zone is 4 thousand km. Total - the margin of time spent in the patrol zone at a speed of 500 km / h = 4 hours. Eh ... And there will be no return to the airfield? Will be? Then we have a conversion: 6 thousand km. at 500 km / h = 12 hours in the air; if you need to hang at least a couple of hours in place, then the path goes back and forth = 5 + 5 hours, i.e. radius 2500 km. If you need to hang in the "zone" for 8 hours, then the radius will be only 1000 km. So the victorious reports and pop-eyed enthusiasm look vague.
    At the same time, it’s somehow not taken into account that several tons of radio equipment with all their antennas and other things significantly reduce the range of air transport compared to transporting the carcass of a general from the chief of staff and a couple of adjutants, even if you load a box of vodka over the plan ...
    In addition, let’s say, using the aircraft at a good altitude implies 50-70 degrees overboard (heating, icing, oxygen equipment ... and much more).
    Landing boats can be detected at a distance of 100 kilometers or more, large ships of the frigate / destroyer / cruiser class - over 300 km.

    This nonsense just touches. An amphibious assault boat without invisibility technology will lead away for 100 km, and a fighter with stealth technology, reflecting a radar beam weaker than a well-fed goose, for 400-780 km. Is that so? belay
    1. 0
      25 March 2016 14: 38
      Read more carefully) 780 km - this is for aircraft with a standard EPR tactical fighter of the 4 generation (3-5 М2). For stealth (fighter) - 200-300 km. Surface targets on the background of the underlying surface, taking into account the degradation of 10-12 km, are detected from much shorter distances, you still have to explain)))
      1. 0
        25 March 2016 14: 43
        Well, or tell us, why then the most powerful AN / APY-3 AFAR radar with a synthetic aperture of the E-8C "J-STARS" aircraft has a range limit of 240 - 250 km?
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