Military Review

The collapse of the "Boeing" in Rostov. Black Saturday, 19 March March 2016

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The collapse of the "Boeing" in Rostov. Black Saturday, 19 March March 2016



The third crash of the Boeing Company’s aircraft in Russia took about 62 lives (the exact number of casualties is not yet known). The first disaster occurred in the 2008 year (88 victims), the second in the 2013 year (50 victims). Total 200 people. The wines of the crews were recognized by the IAC in the last two cases. Representatives of the Federal Air Transport Agency published a special opinion, excluding the guilt of the crew, calling the steering fault the main cause of the disaster. The IAC prohibited the use of Boeing on the territory of the Russian Federation, but this ban was declarative, it existed only on paper.

This flight will be another topic for numerous informational messages. Thousands of people will talk and mourn. Just because only one person made a decision to land the plane in Rostov in adverse meteorological conditions.


The picture shows the cockpit


Moreover, the Ministry of Emergency Situations of Russia in advance made sending SMS messages a simple Rostov team about a strong gale wind. I also received the following 18 March message in 15 hours 7 minutes: “A very strong southwest, west wind to 30 m / s is expected. An increase in the water level at the mouth of the Don River is expected. Wind surge in 100 cm is expected in Taganrog Bay ”.

All night it was raining rain. And the wind was so strong that in some places trees fell in the city, and in our small Rostov courtyard the wind howled and broke trees so that it became scary.

What can we say about civil aviationwhere information about upcoming weather conditions is crucial!

According to the Russia 24 TV channel, the lower limit of clouds during the catastrophe was at an altitude of 300-600 meters, the wind speed throughout the night was 12-14 m / s, while in some moments gusts were recorded to 17-18 m / with.

After the publication of negotiations between the pilot and controllers, it became known that the Rostov controller spoke to the pilot: “Wind 14, rushes to 19 direction 230”.

According to the international aviation base of aircraft Plane Finder, under the registration number А6-FDN is “Boeing-737-800”; owned by FlyDubai; equipped with two jet engines; The first flight took place 21 December 2010, i.e. "Age" - five years; fuel capacity - 26 022 liters; path length - 1 630 m, cruising speed - 852 km / h; wing span - 34,32 meters. Flight range - 5 765 km. The distance between Rostov-on-Don and Dubai is 2803 kilometers.

The plane was less than a third full. Passengers were just 55 people. In the modification of this type of aircraft the maximum number of seats - 189. These unfortunate people did not buy tickets for this flight; travel companies Natalie Tours and Ingosstrakh decided everything for them, preferring to work with economy-class airlines or low-cost airlines. By the way, representatives of travel agencies on the day of the disaster have already stated that they do not bear any responsibility, including financial responsibility. It must, it turns out, was additionally insured against an accident. And the passengers were only provided with medical insurance. Tour operators shifted all responsibility on the shoulders of the airline.

FlyDubai is a low cost airline (it started working in Russia in 2010), this is the name given to all budget companies, whose business model appeared on the Russian market in 90's and contains a few tough savings rules for passengers. In particular, in order to minimize costs, so-called “fast flights” were actively used when the plane arrives in the morning and flies in the evening, and the choice of an airfield is carried out using the same method - cost minimization: the least loaded ones are selected. Flight routes are also selected simplified. Even flight attendants here perform several functions: they clean the cabin, check in passengers, etc.

Crews of some airlines load their luggage themselves, and then sit down at the controls of the aircraft, spending several hours in the air. According to statistics, voiced by the newspaper Vedomosti, 14 hours in the air is a very good indicator for a medium-haul aircraft, a good indicator for the Russian market is 10-12 hours. The second European low-cost airline - EasyJet - had a 2015 raid 10 hours per day, and the Aeroflot group had an 9,5 hour.

On board almost all services are paid, even water. You can carry only seven kilograms of luggage on board, and if even a few grams of it are larger, the passenger will have to pay extra. It is on such petty, it would seem, additional payments, and not the petty, but the billionth business is being built.

Despite the difficult weather conditions, the aircraft landed at the Rostov airport, which was not officially closed. Moreover, some crews made the decision to fly to Krasnodar, while other Russian pilots landed and raised their planes in Rostov, whereas for a Cypriot commander working in favorable conditions, this landing was the first time he could not cope with it. The commander of the aircraft from the very beginning behaved more than strange.



Flying over the territory of the Rostov region, for three hours he looped, making strange maneuvers long before the airport. According to Flightradar (here you can get data on the movement of the aircraft in real time), for about one hour, the plane made three circles in the Bagaevskaya village, between the cities of Novocherkassk and Shakhty, in the village of Bulochkin, Zernogradsk district. But, having finally flown up to Rostov, having become discharged again strange small circles, following the same loop. This happened within two hours. Then he went to land, dropped to 1500 meters, and then flew up to 4000 meters within a few seconds, while gaining speed. And then suddenly a stone falls to the ground.

It happened here, near, almost outside the window. The plane circled over the Rostov airfield for two hours, made about 10 circles, eyewitnesses say.

Local dispatchers appealed to all crew commanders, offering them to land in the neighboring Krasnodar region, where Pashkovsky Airport is equipped with two operating runways (2200 x 49 meters one and 3000 x 45 meters two). One of them can take a vessel with a maximum take-off weight of 63 tons, the second - 170 tons. The maximum take-off weight of the crashed aircraft is 78 240-79 000 kg. Maximum landing weight - 63 320 kg. So sit down and take off the plane could according to its technical characteristics in Krasnodar.

Of course, the captain got used to his airport in Dubai, which is equipped with completely different runways the size of 4000 x 60 meters. And the weather in Dubai is not the same as in Rostov. And here it is worth touching on the professionalism of the crew.

The crew of the aircraft was "motley", representatives of several countries worked here. The crew commander is a Cyprus citizen Aristos Socratos. Twenty-four-year-old flight attendant Yoram Alex Dominic Konfe - from the Republic of Seychelles. Twenty-eight-year-old Russian citizen Maxim Aidrews, twenty-six-year-old Colombian citizen Laura Patricia Delacruz, two Spanish citizens Javier Caro and Cruz Alejandro Alawa, twenty-eight-year-old Kyrgyz citizen Jyldyz Nasirdinova.

In determining the identity of the commander of the crew, Aristos Socratos, two significant causes of the tragedy were found out. This is the largest air crash in the whole history Cyprus and Greece - the collapse of the Boeing 2005-737 in 300, forty kilometers from Athens, as well as incomprehensible training of the captain.

It turns out that Sokratous worked as a pilot in his home country on Helios Airways before 2005, it was then that the company’s negligence of engineers who turned off the auto-seal of the cabin resulted in a plane crash that killed 121 people. Moreover, passengers earlier complained that they were cold in the cabin, but the representatives of the airline did not pay attention to it.

After this terrible disaster, the commission demanded that aircraft manufacturers evaluate the feasibility of installing a CVR, which records the entire flight.

It was also demanded that all negotiations during the entire flight be recorded.

And although his leadership says today that Socrathus was studying at the Oxford Aviation Academy, it does not say what kind of training program he attended. Such a high name of an educational institution does not speak about high-quality education only because the University of Oxford is primarily a humanitarian university in the UK, and piloting training is something applied, secondary, a tribute to time rather than knowledge. Judge for yourself: for example, one of the pilots training programs is designed for 16 months, and the other for 19 months. And you become a professional pilot - this is exactly what the aviation academy claims.

There would be much more victims if the commander of the crew missed: the airfield is tightly surrounded by urban buildings.



The plane did not even hit the runway (the length of which is 2500 meters, width of 45 meters), it fell aside, not reaching approximately 100 meters. At the end of the 90s, the airport was going to be moved outside the city limits, but due to the introduction of market relations, it was not up to large-scale nation-wide construction projects, and everything remained the same. True, today the authorities are actively promoting the project of a new airport, but its construction has not yet begun.

On the territory of Russia in 2008 and 2013. there were two major aviation accidents involving Boeing aircraft. And in all cases, the main culprit was found to be the crew of the aircraft.

September 14 The Boeing 2008 (owned by the Russian airline Aeroflot-Nord) failed to fly from Moscow to Perm and crashed to the ground about 737 kilometers from the airport in Perm. 11 people died. According to official data, "the plane fell due to a pilot error when landing the liner in manual mode."

17 November 2013 at the Kazan airport was almost the same weather as in Rostov: heavy rain, snow, wind gusts up to 15 meters per second. True, there tried to land a "Boeing" five hundredth series.

“The cause of the crash of the Boeing 737-500 VQ-BBN aircraft was systemic flaws in identifying hazards and controlling the level of risk, as well as the inoperability of the safety management system at the airline and the lack of control over the level of crew training from aviation authorities at all levels (Tatar MTU VT , Rosaviatsia), which led to the admission to the flight of an unprepared crew, ”the report of the Interstate Aviation Committee says.

The IAC Commission tried to ban the use of this type of aircraft on the territory of the Russian Federation and sent a letter, according to which the manufacturer had to correct deficiencies in the technical design and strengthen the training of pilots. But the whole thing ended up with the fact that the Rosaviatsiya indicated “to the place” of the IAC, which does not have the right to revoke a certificate for the use of one or another type of aircraft on the territory of the Russian Federation. Two departments could not constructively build a dialogue between themselves.



It's a shame that from year to year officials act according to the same scheme. Catastrophe. Analysis. Findings. And this happens not only in aviation, but also in other areas.

According to the pilot sniper Viktor Vladimirovich Grishin, who made more than 5 000 sorties under different conditions, there is one rule in aviation: “If there is no weather, then the final decision is made by the aircraft commander. So he accepted - to sit down in Rostov. And I had to fly to the alternate airfield, to Krasnodar. But these are firms! They do not want to spend extra money on flights, on accommodation for people, on additional fees, ”says Grishin.

A retired colonel, pilot Pavel Kirillov, was at one time engaged in investigating flight accidents and said that without receiving all the objective data about what happened, it is difficult for him to draw conclusions, and he will not give any comments because now there will be a lot of hunters turn generates a lot of rumors. Conclusions about the tragedy over the sky of Rostov can be made on the basis of black boxes, photo and video, eyewitness accounts, crew talks with dispatchers and with their management.

... And my heart hurts because our city is, in fact, small, many people know each other well for work. And for ordinary residents, the tragedy that unfolded in the sky of Rostov was a great shock. But for every psychologist you will not find. Oh, what a pity! What a pity! What a pity! What a pity! What a pity!



Many of them were accomplished personalities. How many times did Igor Pakus, who worked for many years in the legislative assembly of the Rostov region, attract the attention of journalists? Pakus was not only a professional in his field, but also a charismatic man, a real man. And what grief befell the kind and fair Valeriy Bevzyuk, who headed the neighboring Azov district and raised three children. His 27-year-old youngest daughter died with her mom. Left all of them pieces scattered across the runway. Working in the regional election commission, I had occasion to talk with Elena Chernova, the leaders of the territorial election commission of the Oktyabrsky district. They came to us, on the floor, on the fourth floor, told about their work. They lived. Oh my God! Who would have thought and imagined what grief will befall us all on that terrible Saturday morning, March 19, 2016.

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  1. parusnik
    parusnik 21 March 2016 06: 31
    +36
    But these are firms! They do not want to spend extra money on flights, on accommodation of people, on additional fees... And people died ... Eternal memory to them .. condolences to relatives ..
    PSThe words of Gref are remembered, which he once said to him, I'd rather buy 100 Boeings than give money for domestic aviation ..
    1. Armored optimist
      Armored optimist 21 March 2016 06: 45
      +15
      In addition to the money issue, the commander was under pressure from other circumstances.
      The board was waiting for 140 passengers for the flight in the opposite direction. The honor of the company, panima.
      The crew had to rest, but in a strange AP it is difficult. There is no substitution in someone else.
      1. Oleg14774
        Oleg14774 21 March 2016 10: 30
        0
        Quote: armored optimist
        In addition to the money issue, the commander was under pressure from other circumstances.

        Absolutely right. We are all much to blame, but how would everyone act in his place in the same profession?
        1. python2a
          python2a 21 March 2016 16: 12
          +2
          What does the accusation have to do with it. The commander was dominated by greed over common sense.
          1. SveTok
            SveTok 21 March 2016 18: 33
            -3
            Only here about Krasnodar, the utter nonsense here the weather was no better than the Rostov wind blew so hard that it broke trees and torn wires, therefore, under such conditions, passengers should not be held hostage by circumstances and the airport had to be closed for flights, especially since the plane circled over showing the airport my helplessness to everyone, I believe that our illiterate government is responsible for all accidents at airports, mines, and power plants.
            1. reservist
              reservist 21 March 2016 18: 56
              +6
              Quote: SveTok
              I think that for all the accidents and at the airports ...

              those. Should the government of the Russian Federation be responsible for the decision made by the FAC (aircraft commander), a Cypriot Aristos Socrates?
            2. reservist
              reservist 21 March 2016 18: 57
              -1
              Quote: reservist
              Only here about Krasnodar utter nonsense here the weather was no better

              and yourself from the Kuban?
              with a striped flag then ...
              1. Cat man null
                Cat man null 21 March 2016 19: 29
                0
                Quote: reservist
                with a striped flag then

                The site makes a fool, crookedly defines IP.

                I’m from the Moscow region, for example laughing
                1. reservist
                  reservist 22 March 2016 11: 12
                  0
                  I mean not IP itself, but IP binding to the region?
                  Well, of course, it may be wrong, but still accurate to the continent ...
                  1. Cat man null
                    Cat man null 22 March 2016 14: 27
                    0
                    Damn ... changing for yesterday changed: Irish, EU and Amer.

                    What now - let's see ...

                    Oh mattress laughing
        2. derik1970
          derik1970 22 March 2016 06: 25
          +2
          Come on! Isn't the safety of passengers above all else? Money has closed your eyes to all of you, that's why you think so. Only a spineless, greedy for a bobble, petty human "soul", unable to make decisions, can reason like that !!! Buy a pistol, even a gas one, and play Russian roulette. What don't you want? But passengers do not have to choose either !!!!!
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. RUS96
      RUS96 21 March 2016 06: 53
      +10
      A Ural Airlines plane landed and took off in Rostov while a Boeing 737 circled over the airport
      http://ren.tv/novosti/2016-03-20/samolet-uralskih-avialiniy-sel-i-vzletel-v-rost
      ove-poka-boeing-737-kruzhil-nad
    4. vladimirZ
      vladimirZ 21 March 2016 07: 03
      +12
      And until when will civilian aircraft massively be fought in Russia?
      The next plane crashed for the created business of a profitable low-cost airline - economy class air campaigns where they take, God knows whose planes, crews are assembled around the world, it is not known where and how trained pilots are.

      It doesn’t matter that the plane is not Russian, it transported Russian citizens, and flew to Russia.

      And the reason is that the unified civil aviation system of Russia has been destroyed. Our aircraft are no longer at hundreds of our closed airfields. People are deprived of the most important, in the conditions of enormous Russia, air transport, they cannot fly between regional and regional centers, between remote regional centers.
      But now they fly abroad on foreign "low-cost airlines", with poorly trained pilots for the sake of making a profit.

      After every plane crash, I keep asking myself the question: "How long will all this continue?" Profit, money overshadowed everything, even people's lives.
      How long will the supreme power of Russia disdain Russian civil aviation and rely on the deadly destructive thesis "the market will settle everything"?
      Probably, until a socially just state is restored, where the "golden calf" will not reign, where oligarchs will not be in power, who for the sake of their wealth have forgotten the needs of the people and Russia.
      1. Armored optimist
        Armored optimist 21 March 2016 07: 11
        +6
        Do you have a big grudge against Russia? Or are you trolling?
        "And how long will civilian planes fight in large numbers in Russia?"
        The company is not Russian, did not notice? Or every bast in a row, Putin is to blame?
        1. vladimirZ
          vladimirZ 21 March 2016 07: 21
          +10
          Do you have a big grudge against Russia? Or are you trolling?
          - Armor Optimist (4)

          My resentment is not against Russia, but at the highest authority in Russia that is dismissive of people, their people.
          For you, what is the secret why Russian citizens use these "low-cost airlines"? Don't you see the roots of all these disasters with civil aircraft in Russia?
          And as an aviation engineer, I understand these issues, I can compare what happened and what happened, and why we came to this.
          And you are trolling, not understanding the true reasons for the current plane crashes in Russia. It is in Russia, despite the fact that the "campaign is not Russian."
          1. Armored optimist
            Armored optimist 21 March 2016 07: 28
            +6
            The cause of the disaster is not the distance from the knees to the back of the chair, not as a cassette. All save fuel. Everyone is trying to comply with the schedule. The talk about the fact that it’s dangerous to fly low-cost airlines is for housewives.
            The minus is not from me, you are already being pushed.
            1. 73bor
              73bor 21 March 2016 08: 02
              +5
              It’s silly to talk about fuel economy somehow! If you look at the map the plane circled just between Krasnodar and Rostov, it's not from Krasnoyarsk to Tolmachovo fly! The crash site looks strange - the plane scattered into small pieces, and in Egypt the fuselage was not so destroyed!
              1. jjj
                jjj 21 March 2016 10: 12
                +12
                This company has cheap fuel, but strict requirements to deliver passengers to their destination.
                The Boeing is actually controlled by a computer. When switching over to manual control, crews naturally forget to simultaneously control thrust, speed, roll and pitch. Over the years of flying in automatic mode, they have forgotten how to do this, and the western ones did not know how. There are very few training hours for switching to manual control
                1. Al1977
                  Al1977 21 March 2016 11: 56
                  +4
                  Quote: jjj
                  The Boeing is actually controlled by a computer. When switching over to manual control, crews naturally forget to simultaneously control thrust, speed, roll and pitch. Over the years of flying in automatic mode, they have forgotten how to do this, and the western ones did not know how. There are very few training hours for switching to manual control

                  A couch special in Boeing came. As soon as the crews who “forget about pitch and thrust” land the planes, they are probably just damn lucky. About manual control. In Europe, visual visits are allowed much more often than in Russia. The problem is with a particular crew. And so to say that pilots do not know how to fly, it is one and the same to say that if there is an accident with a car, then Russian people do not know how to drive a car.
                  To control the pitch and roll pitch for this, two pilots are in the cockpit.
                  PF-pilot flight (pilot pilot) and PNF-control pilot.
                  1. Rostovchanin
                    Rostovchanin 21 March 2016 14: 47
                    +1
                    and autopilot puts them under normal conditions, here were not normal
                    1. roman_pilot
                      roman_pilot 21 March 2016 15: 01
                      +2
                      Do not know, do not write. An autopilot lands in low visibility conditions, less than 300 meters. In addition, the wind restrictions for landing in automatic mode are much more stringent. The bulk of the landings around the world are carried out in the hands of the director, for which the AP is usually turned off at an altitude of 300 meters.
                  2. The comment was deleted.
              2. Oleg14774
                Oleg14774 21 March 2016 10: 40
                +1
                Quote: 73bor
                the plane flew into small pieces, and in Egypt the fuselage did not collapse like that!

                And this is also suspicious. It will not be surprising that the black boxes will be inoperative. So planes do not fly away from a kerosene explosion.
                1. Rostovchanin
                  Rostovchanin 21 March 2016 14: 50
                  +3
                  do not fool around, it's one thing when the plane fell apart in the air and another crashed into the ground at speed. Learn physics.
                  Your encounters with the idea of ​​TA are groundless. If the control unit was on board why it didn’t work before, for example, at the first approach ???
                  Or do you think in Rostov terrorists with landing stingers run around?
                2. The comment was deleted.
              3. Fregate
                Fregate 21 March 2016 14: 24
                +1
                Quote: 73bor
                The crash site looks strange - the plane scattered into small pieces, and in Egypt the fuselage was not so destroyed!

                I'm certainly not special, but pay attention. What about Sinai, what about Donbass (MH17) the planes in the air fell apart and there were large pieces of the fuselage. But, for example, when a German pilot intentionally ditched the A320 with passengers in the Alps or our Superjet-100 in Asia crashed into a mountainside, there the planes in the air didn’t fall apart and there were no large parts either, or almost none as in Rostov.
              4. Idiot
                Idiot April 2 2016 13: 14
                0
                Many people survived in the undestructed fuselage? Or - conspiracy theory?
              5. Idiot
                Idiot April 2 2016 13: 14
                0
                Many people survived in the undestructed fuselage? Or - conspiracy theory?
            2. derik1970
              derik1970 22 March 2016 06: 55
              +1
              Thanks to such optimists, the country is in full LJJJ. He himself crashed the plane, and they all fall by themselves, the gravity is to blame ??? She drowned, remember who said that about the Kursk nuclear submarine? If everything happens on its own. The Kursk nuclear submarine was sunk by itself, and nobody was allowed to save people, and not only this nuclear submarine was destroyed. In Chernobyl, too, everything happened by itself ??? Your arguments are about nothing, an empty phrase, an attempt to justify those in power. And as always, no one is to blame for anything except the switchman.
          2. Vasilenko Vladimir
            Vasilenko Vladimir 21 March 2016 07: 39
            +5
            Quote: vladimirZ
            And as an aviation engineer, I understand these issues, I can compare what happened and what happened, and why we came to this.

            your suggestion?!
            to ban foreign airlines?
            I don’t know what kind of engineer you are, but you don’t know how to analyze and think
            1. dmi.pris
              dmi.pris 21 March 2016 08: 57
              +5
              Not to prohibit, but to organize normal competition. And to develop your aviation, and not foreign ..
              1. Vasilenko Vladimir
                Vasilenko Vladimir 21 March 2016 09: 22
                +3
                Quote: dmi.pris
                Do not ban, but organize normal competition

                specific offers?
              2. perm23
                perm23 21 March 2016 12: 07
                +7
                Yes, what a competition. Again about the market. In the USSR, grandmothers sat on the market and traded seeds, and not one in such a competitive environment did not reduce the price. So here, among businessmen, there are no idiots, agree
              3. hardrokc
                hardrokc 21 March 2016 12: 16
                +1
                Quote: dmi.pris
                And develop your aviation, not foreign ..

                So develop. Buy heels of planes and develop. And then advise many much.
                True, the question arises of where to get the heels of "domestic aircraft". And with their planes there will already be some not quite "own aviation".
              4. The comment was deleted.
            2. vladimirZ
              vladimirZ 21 March 2016 09: 40
              +13
              your suggestion?!
              - Vasilenko Vladimir (3)

              My proposal, like thousands of others, calling for the restoration of the Civil Aviation System in Russia.
              And this proposal includes not only the nationalization of all mass air carriers of Russia into a single state air campaign, otherwise it is simply impossible in the vast sparsely populated spaces of Russia, but also the creation of a single state aviation infrastructure, with a well-developed network of educational institutions, a research base, a network of aircraft repair plants. , to a greater extent, unfortunately, already destroyed during the Yeltsi-Chubais "privatization".
              The system of training flight cadres will be improved not from random people trained in some incomprehensible "sharazki", but in flight schools and institutes.
              After all, it is not in the first one that one already has to hear that flight engineers, navigators who have flown for many years, and God knows what Oxward graduates, who are not taken by any serious western air campaign, are becoming pilots.

              The unified system of Russian Civil Aviation will provide all citizens with the right to use air transportation, increase their mobility, give them a reasonable cost of these transportation, and ensure decent aviation security.
              The Civil Aviation System will allow civilian aircraft construction and aircraft factories to recover, by accumulating financial resources for the construction of new aircraft from a single carrier, and create the conditions for targeted state investment for Civil Aviation.
              1. Al1977
                Al1977 21 March 2016 12: 02
                -2
                Quote: vladimirZ
                And this proposal includes not only the nationalization of all mass air carriers of Russia into a single state air campaign,

                So fly with Aeroflot, what is stopping you. Go only to state clinics, repair cars only from authorized dealers (which must be made public), etc. ... I just don’t have to decide where and from whom to buy services.
                1. hardrokc
                  hardrokc 21 March 2016 12: 10
                  -2
                  Quote: Al1977
                  You just don’t have to decide for me where and from whom to purchase services.

                  It is necessary. In their "value system" there is no way without it.
                2. The comment was deleted.
                3. Corporal Valera
                  Corporal Valera 21 March 2016 12: 40
                  +3
                  Quote: Al1977
                  You just don’t have to decide for me where and from whom to purchase services.

                  Especially for you, you can leave one non-state airline with a small budget, a worn out fleet, a fuel limit and imported pilots. Everything as you like. According to the "invisible hand of the market".
                  1. hardrokc
                    hardrokc 21 March 2016 14: 56
                    -4
                    Quote: Corporal Valera
                    one non-state airline with a small budget, a worn out fleet, a fuel limit and imported pilots.

                    In this case, he will at least be able to fly somewhere. And you can only "fall in love at the airport". And then hitchhiking. Because most likely you will not have money for the flight. Monopoly is always expensive.
                    1. Corporal Valera
                      Corporal Valera 21 March 2016 15: 40
                      +4
                      Quote: hardrokc
                      Monopoly is always expensive.

                      Touches your ALWAYS. In the USSR, they flew on an airplane for beer. But in general, for normal people, the choice should not be between EXPENSIVE, but between SAFE and NOT SAFE. In this case, the state monopoly looks much more preferable. Although there are comrades for whom the RIGHT OF CHOICE is more valuable than their safety. So for them I propose to leave the above company. And on the sides you can write in capital letters: RISK - A noble cause!
                      1. hardrokc
                        hardrokc 21 March 2016 15: 51
                        -4
                        Quote: Corporal Valera
                        In the USSR, they flew on an airplane for beer.

                        Of course. And there pink elephants multiplied densely and fatly grazed.
                        Don't fantasize. Better to estimate the prices yourself. 10 rubles of the level of 1990 this is about 2000 modern rubles. Surprise, but today's prices are the same or lower than in the "free" USSR.
                        Quote: Corporal Valera
                        But in general, for normal people, the choice should not be between EXPENSIVE, but between SAFE and NOT SAFE.

                        In no case. Between cheap and expensive, yes. But there should not be a place "not safe". Nowhere and nothing.
                        Quote: Corporal Valera
                        In this case, the state monopoly looks much more preferable.

                        Who told you that? I want to remind you about the TU-154 of the FGUAP Pulkovo in 2006. State company. So what?
                        Quote: Corporal Valera
                        Although there are comrades for whom the RIGHT OF CHOICE is more valuable than their safety.

                        And who told you that the low-cost partner is unsafe? Have you come up with?
                        Quote: Corporal Valera
                        And on the sides you can write in capital letters: RISK - A noble cause!

                        That's when you create a monopoly, then you will write on bots. Do not worry, do not make a mistake. Monopoly is not only expensive. This is also a nonsense, there are no competitors.
                      2. Corporal Valera
                        Corporal Valera 21 March 2016 16: 19
                        +6
                        Quote: hardrokc
                        Surprise, but today's prices are the same or lower than in the "free" USSR.

                        Yeah. And that is why AEROFLOT of the USSR transported 140 million passengers annually, and today all carriers are below 40
                        Quote: hardrokc
                        Between cheap and expensive, yes. But there should not be a place "not safe". Nowhere and nothing.

                        You do not see a logical error? It is cheap and high quality from various operas.
                        Quote: hardrokc
                        I want to remind you

                        And I want to remind you the words of the comrade that a single system of civil aviation was destroyed in the camp.
                      3. hardrokc
                        hardrokc 21 March 2016 17: 31
                        -2
                        Quote: Corporal Valera
                        And that is why AEROFLOT of the USSR transported 140 million passengers annually, and today all carriers are below 40

                        So what? This is about the weather. Are you going to judge by the number of people in the hat on the street? I actually wrote about ticket prices. And you tell me about the volume of traffic. This volume is influenced by a million factors.
                        Quote: Corporal Valera
                        It is cheap and high quality from various operas.

                        Who told you this? Flying with the regular regular you usually pre-pay in advance:
                        1. The transportation of a suitcase is absolutely not childish.
                        2. Very expensive food and drinks in the air.
                        3. The increased step of a chair (space for legs).
                        4. The work of the reception staff.
                        5. Transport at the airport from / to the plane.
                        6. Accident insurance.
                        Maybe I missed something else. In Luokosner you can buy all this. And then the ticket will also be completely not budgetary. And you can not buy. Then it will be cheaper.
                        On security issues there is no difference between the two. Rather, among low-cost partners, it is usually higher, because their planes are mostly new. It is not profitable to repair and maintain, it is cheaper to sell and buy new ones.
                        Quote: Corporal Valera
                        that the united civil aviation system was destroyed in the camp.

                        You are wrong. She is more alive than all living things. And it will survive you. A single carrier (Aeroflot) is not a "civil aviation system" at all. The monopoly of the "single carrier" has been destroyed. And that's not good, that's great.
                      4. Corporal Valera
                        Corporal Valera 21 March 2016 17: 49
                        +5
                        Quote: hardrokc
                        So what? This is about the weather. Are you going to judge by the number of people in the hat on the street? I actually wrote about ticket prices. And you tell me about the volume of traffic.

                        And the fact that it is these indicators that assess the state of civil aviation. Regarding prices:
                        In the 1980s, the average airfare within Russia was about 20% of the average salary; in 2000, it exceeded 100%.

                        Now, I think 75 percent, if not more.
                        Quote: hardrokc
                        You're wrong. She is more alive than all living things.

                        Then compare the percentage of regional and local traffic in the USSR and the Russian Federation. Why should I fly through Moscow (2000 km) to a city 700 km away? This is 4 flights, instead of 2. Fucking development!
                        Quote: hardrokc
                        The monopoly of the "single carrier" has been destroyed. And that's not good, that's great.

                        Now agree to the extent that the destruction of the USSR is also wonderful.
                      5. hardrokc
                        hardrokc 21 March 2016 17: 57
                        -3
                        Quote: Corporal Valera
                        And the fact that it is these indicators that assess the state of civil aviation

                        Who told you this?
                        Quote: Corporal Valera
                        Now, I think 75 percent, if not more.

                        Yeah. As soon as I was caught on "exaggeration", the "correction" immediately appeared. Something further in such a "nimble" I do not want to communicate.
                        Quote: Corporal Valera
                        Now agree to the extent that the destruction of the USSR is also wonderful.

                        Is there any doubt about this? Only it was necessary to do this not through the ass.
                      6. The comment was deleted.
                  2. The comment was deleted.
              2. The comment was deleted.
              3. Corporal Valera
                Corporal Valera 21 March 2016 17: 15
                +1
                To minors:
                In the 1980s, the average airfare within Russia was about 20% of the average salary; in 2000, it exceeded 100%.


                Statistics however
              4. hardrokc
                hardrokc 21 March 2016 17: 38
                -4
                Quote: Corporal Valera
                In the 1980s, the average airfare within Russia was about 20% of the average salary; in 2000, it exceeded 100%.
                Statistics however

                The average salary in Russia in January 2016. officially amounted to 32122 rubles. This is where you are going to fly for the money? Around the world?
                It seems that you make up the "statistics" yourself.
              5. The comment was deleted.
      2. Gardamir
        Gardamir 21 March 2016 15: 00
        +5
        No need to decide for me
        Humorist! They decided for you, it doesn’t matter with which sauce. Prohibitions, as in the USSR or hiding behind the market, as it is now.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. Rostovchanin
        Rostovchanin 21 March 2016 15: 03
        +5
        I would love to do it if that were the case.
        And so usually for your own money you get a ticket to the next world.
        And not necessarily in aviation, but in the same medicine. Not only will you give the money, you will not get what you need. And it's very good if you have the opportunity to choose another polyclinic after such "treatment".
        Young all educated in the age of the Internet, read reviews will tell me, but what about those who do not know how to do this ??? And in our country, how many% of pensioners ??? Those who have the strength and health, for God's sake you can experiment, but I still would like to get a quality service the first time, and not go to the forefathers.
        1. hardrokc
          hardrokc 21 March 2016 15: 11
          -2
          Quote: Rostovchanin
          And so usually for your own money you get a ticket to the next world.

          How are you feeling? What are you writing? Crossing the road is more dangerous than flying an airplane. It is more dangerous to travel by bus. There, too, "for your own money, you get a ticket to the next world"?
          You remind, because of what crashed TU-154 FGUAP "Pulkovo"? State Unitary Enterprise.
          1. FID
            FID 21 March 2016 17: 39
            +3
            Quote: hardrokc
            You remind, because of what crashed TU-154 FGUAP "Pulkovo"? State Unitary Enterprise.

            Well, well ... Remind me, be kind, but at the same time try to recall the formation of the salaries of the pilots in this FGUAP (which, according to rumors, belonged to the son of Matvienko, BY HEARING).
            1. hardrokc
              hardrokc 21 March 2016 17: 45
              -2
              Quote: SSI
              Remind me, be kind, but at the same time try to recall the formation of the salaries of pilots in this FGUAP

              What for? The man declared that a "state company" is guaranteed to be safe.
              Quote: SSI
              FGUAP (which according to rumors belonged to the son of Matvienko, I emphasize, BY HEARING).

              This is not possible in principle. FGUAP (any), even in theory, cannot belong to a private person.
            2. FID
              FID 21 March 2016 18: 10
              0
              Quote: hardrokc
              This is not possible in principle. FGUAP (any), even in theory, cannot belong to a private person.

              Everything is possible here ... Formally, yes, why did the government detachment leave St. Petersburg? And they were in this FGUAP ... Dark affairs, dark ... And again - according to rumors ... And what about the salary is weak?
            3. hardrokc
              hardrokc 21 March 2016 18: 49
              +1
              Quote: SSI
              why did the government detachment leave St. Petersburg?

              FGUAP Pulkovo is not a government detachment. It WAS a state airline.
              Quote: SSI
              And they were in this FGUAP

              Were not. They were in the SCC "Russia", which joined the FSUE "Pulkovo".
              Quote: SSI
              What about the salary is weak?

              I'm not interested in other people's salaries.
  2. vladimirZ
    vladimirZ 21 March 2016 17: 15
    +3
    You just don’t have to decide for me where and from whom to purchase services.
    - Al1977

    And nobody decides for you. I do not like flying single Aeroflot planes, you can use Russian Railways. laughing
    And in general, the state should establish the priority of public interests over personal interests, especially in the most important sectors, its especially dangerous types. Not only do you personally dislike it.
    This is the law of the existence of intelligent human community. If it is the other way around, when society adjusts to the opinion of each individual, there will be no sense, everything will fall apart.
  • perm23
    perm23 21 March 2016 12: 08
    0
    I agree with that. But no one will do it. No one. Even if the Communists come to power.
  • Sercaptain
    Sercaptain 21 March 2016 14: 29
    +2
    Are you sure that high mobility is available to many residents? Is the state interested in such mobility? Oh, that is, business - from Crimea to Moscow via landing in St. Petersburg is cheaper than directly - is it your way?
  • alleksSalut4507
    alleksSalut4507 22 March 2016 20: 30
    0
    I agree!!!
  • Kenneth
    Kenneth 21 March 2016 09: 02
    +4
    Most airlines in the world use low-cost airlines. Because it’s cheap.
    1. jjj
      jjj 21 March 2016 10: 14
      +4
      Quote: Kenneth
      Because it’s cheap.

      It's cheap when you fly alone with a briefcase for no more than two hours. Try to fly the whole family "Pobeda" on vacation. You will immediately understand that Aeroflot is more pleasant
      1. Al1977
        Al1977 21 March 2016 12: 13
        0
        Quote: jjj
        It's cheap when you fly alone with a briefcase for no more than two hours. Try to fly the whole family "Pobeda" on vacation. You will immediately understand that Aeroflot is more pleasant

        So it’s good that there is a choice. Here they propose to make one company. Then you will not know whether it is expensive or not. Either you fly at this price or not. At the same time, for some reason they believe that there will simply be supermen at the helm, and the equipment will work without failures.
      2. The comment was deleted.
  • hardrokc
    hardrokc 21 March 2016 09: 18
    +14
    Quote: vladimirZ
    For you, what is the secret why Russian citizens use these "low-cost airlines"?

    For the first time in so many years (generally for the first time offhand) in Russia a low-cost airline crashed. And so much noise due to low budget carrier. But NOT the low-costers that came before him, were they broken because of what? Due to the fact that the cost of water, food and baggage is already included in the ticket price? Due to the fact that the step of the passenger seats is greater? Due to the fact that passengers are taken on a bus for boarding, and they aren’t drinking feet?
    These companies are no worse than ordinary companies. Just pricing is different. And more seats in the cabin. And that’s all.
    As for the pilot. Nobody anywhere will understand and check his qualifications. If he can be a commander by paper, then he will be. Almost any airline.
  • Oleg14774
    Oleg14774 21 March 2016 10: 38
    +3
    Quote: vladimirZ
    I’m offended not by Russia, but by the supreme power of Russia disdainful of people, their people.

    And that power in the United States or in Germany is not neglecting its people? Or recall what is happening there? So against their background, we are still far from being so bad and there is a tendency to improve! The stone in the garden on your part is more likely to be on emotions than on facts!
  • perm23
    perm23 21 March 2016 12: 04
    +3
    And immediately the highest power. At what. What to follow for each firm in manual control to lead. Business already yells, do not bother us. The owner of the enterprise decides everything. And in small firms the same thing, the owner himself decides everything. And do not care about security. both in aviation and everywhere. Not the highest power is to blame. It's easy to just bring everything to the top and that's it.
  • derik1970
    derik1970 22 March 2016 06: 54
    +1
    Sorry to put you a minus wrong. You are right in your reasoning, and "Broneoptimist" is most likely from stupidly "ideless", support for the existing regime of the oligarchy.
  • NordUral
    NordUral 21 March 2016 08: 41
    +4
    Reread the article and understand the reason. In greed and indifference to people. I do not blame the pilot, he flew away as best he could and how he was forced. I condemn soulless capitalism.
    1. Al1977
      Al1977 21 March 2016 12: 09
      +3
      Quote: NordUral
      Reread the article and understand the reason. In greed and indifference to people.

      Forced to drive a plane into the ground ???? What is greed? In which company it is FORBIDDEN to leave for a spare or are they fined for this ??? How much you can write in anything with no sleep or spirit. Does Aeroflot have different working conditions? But what about the collective letter to Savelyev about violations of working conditions, to which he cynically answered. that the current pilots do not get tired, because only the buttons press. Well, do not write what you do not know at all. What is the relationship with a plane breakdown in a dive related to business. Well, it would be about icing, loss of spatial orientation, speed loss in the set, but certainly not greed is the cause of the accident. Or soon all the planes of this company will fall according to your logic?
    2. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 21 March 2016 12: 48
      +5
      Quote: NordUral
      Reread the article and understand the reason. In greed and indifference to people. I do not blame the pilot, he flew away as best he could and how he was forced. I condemn soulless capitalism.

      The moral level of the people fell below the plinth. Yesterday I turned on the TV box and didn’t understand whether we have mourning or not? Judging by TNT and their programs, no. Everything is good, everything is fun. But it seems, more recently, some channels canceled ads on the day of mourning. This is me on the moral issue of capitalism.
  • dmi.pris
    dmi.pris 21 March 2016 08: 55
    0
    And the people on this "non-Russian" plane, the passengers, whose? And here, by the way, you can ask Putin (after all, he supports this liberal model of the economy, Gref, Siluanov, Kudrin) .. Their aircraft factories and design bureaus "lie" and these ... we stuff our pockets ..
    Quote: armored optimist
    Do you have a big grudge against Russia? Or are you trolling?
    "And how long will civilian planes fight in large numbers in Russia?"
    The company is not Russian, did not notice? Or every bast in a row, Putin is to blame?
  • Oleg14774
    Oleg14774 21 March 2016 10: 36
    +8
    Quote: armored optimist
    The company is not Russian, did not notice? Or every bast in a row, Putin is to blame?

    Let's do it without GDP. There's a bunch of shit in the government. GDP bears nominal responsibility, but Stalin did not become a full-fledged head of state immediately, but only since 1937, when he succeeded in replacing the people's commissar of finance in the NKVD bodies to remove the protrotskists. So it’s not so simple. You can’t stop the bakery and immediately replace the manual and change equipment, because you need bread every day and you don’t want to, you have to work with those who are. The problem with personnel and with the confrontation, these are very capacious concepts in this case.
  • derik1970
    derik1970 22 March 2016 06: 45
    +1
    And who is to blame? Not V.V. Putin? Then who? Who runs the state and is responsible for the people living in this state? However, talking to a zombie is useless. Your reasoning will disappear only when you yourself fall along with the plane ... but then a h *** like you appears like a devil from a snuff box.
  • alleksSalut4507
    alleksSalut4507 22 March 2016 20: 22
    0
    Putin, apparently, does not decide everything. the normal state finds funds for training specialists and perfect systems of domestic production, and in sufficient quantities to protect its own population. and then our citizens would fly on Russian planes with normally trained crew from the Russian Federation.
  • Homo
    Homo 21 March 2016 07: 21
    +1
    I do not quite understand what is the claim to Russia?
    Quote: vladimirZ
    And until when will civilian aircraft massively be fought in Russia?

    I do not quite understand what are the claims to Russia, other than general phrases?
    1. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 21 March 2016 07: 40
      +4
      not only did you not understand, but I think that the APPTor himself will not explain
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 21 March 2016 07: 37
    +3
    Quote: vladimirZ
    How long will the supreme power of Russia disdain Russian civil aviation and rely on the deadly destructive thesis "the market will settle everything"?

    and why all this opus? !!!!
    what is he talking about?
    no sense no logic
    an Arab plane crashed with a mixed team, again Russia is to blame, from what side is it "until a socially just state is restored, where the" golden calf "will not reign" or the main thing is to write? !!!
    1. sa-ag
      sa-ag 21 March 2016 07: 48
      +1
      Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
      where the golden calf will not reign

      And this, incidentally, is one of the reasons why disasters are not drawn from conclusions, and this is not only in aviation
      1. Vasilenko Vladimir
        Vasilenko Vladimir 21 March 2016 08: 50
        +1
        with the same success it can be stated that the sun of war for money
        what's next?!
    2. efimovaPE
      21 March 2016 10: 21
      0
      By the way, the local company Donavia was liquidated in Rostov about a month ago. Russian pilots were fired.
      1. Al1977
        Al1977 21 March 2016 15: 05
        +1
        Quote: efimovaPE
        By the way, the local company Donavia was liquidated in Rostov about a month ago. Russian pilots were fired.

        First, it became a subsidiary of Aeroflot, followed by bankruptcy. This is in opposition to those who believe that the state should control everything and everywhere.
  • stas-xnumx
    stas-xnumx 21 March 2016 09: 02
    0
    My friend, the plane of foreign airlines, the crew, respectively!
  • Oleg14774
    Oleg14774 21 March 2016 10: 32
    +1
    Quote: vladimirZ
    How long will the supreme power of Russia disdain Russian civil aviation and rely on the deadly destructive thesis "the market will settle everything"?

    As long as power is held by grefs who will work abroad and earn extra money in our government.
  • alicante11
    alicante11 21 March 2016 13: 49
    +3
    economy class airline campaigns where they take God knows whose planes


    This is the 737 800-2010 "who knows whose"? In Russia we can count such people on one hand. These are the low-cost Arabian low-cost airlines.

    crews are assembled around the world, it is not known where and how trained pilots.


    Do you have any specific complaints about the lost pilots? Besides the voiced "Oxford" teaching? Which doesn't say anything.

    It doesn’t matter that the plane is not Russian, it transported Russian citizens, and flew to Russia.


    Of course it doesn’t matter. All the same, GDP is to blame. I did not see what plane the Russians put on. I didn’t warn that Russians should do nefig in BV, where a lot of teeth are sharpened on us.

    But now they fly abroad on foreign "low-cost airlines", with poorly trained pilots for the sake of making a profit.


    And what do you suggest? Banning foreign airlines from flying, or banning locomotives from flying? Well, the price of Aeroflt tickets will never be cheaper than that of some flyarabia. And therefore they will fly on them, unless they are prohibited by law. And this is "not our method" - we need a "market". Maybe you would advise the government to subsidize Aeroflot so that it lower prices below low-cost airlines and transport our citizens safely and efficiently? Well, you understand that with this money, effective Aeroflot managers will build themselves another mansion in a prestigious area of ​​the Moscow region. And ticket prices will remain higher than foreign ones.
    The problem is not in Russia, but in capitalism. While people’s profit will be more important than safety, planes will fall even in Russia, even in Europe, even in China, even in the USA.
    1. hardrokc
      hardrokc 21 March 2016 14: 12
      +2
      Quote: alicante11
      The problem is not in Russia, but in capitalism. While people’s profit will be more important than safety, planes will fall even in Russia, even in Europe, even in China, even in the USA.

      And you can blame socialism, for example.
      Here in 1982. crashed with victims of 4 Soviet aircraft. And yet, also with the victims, 2 encountered at the airport.
      Soviet, okay. Do you think the pilots sitting down in Rostov counted profits in their pockets? Where did they come from there? And what about those crews that left for other airfields? This is also "capitalism".
      1. alicante11
        alicante11 21 March 2016 15: 29
        +1
        Here in 1982. crashed with victims of 4 Soviet aircraft. And yet, also with the victims, 2 encountered at the airport.


        Yeah, and at the beginning of the 20 century, whatnots almost crashed almost every week. Firstly, there was such an air traffic in the USSR that we don’t even dream about now. Especially on local airlines. And secondly, the disasters in Soviet times were mainly due to the technical factor - the imperfection of the technology that is being treated, and now mainly the economic factor that is not being treated.
        1. hardrokc
          hardrokc 21 March 2016 15: 38
          -1
          Quote: alicante11
          and now it’s mainly an economic factor that is not being treated.

          And what, can you give examples of such disasters? Well, just so as not to look like an empty talker.
          1. alicante11
            alicante11 22 March 2016 06: 11
            0
            And what, can you give examples of such disasters? Well, just so as not to look like an empty talker.


            Yes, take almost any of the current ones, starting with the last Rostov one (which one did not go to the reserve?), With the exception of the one brought down by the trenches. The catastrophe of the Leningrad Tu-154 22 on August 2006 of the year, which due to fuel economy did not fly around the storm, but tried to fly over it and fell into a flat corkscrew.
            In 1995, our Khabarovsk Tu-154 was overloaded with unaccounted caviar, plus some pumping of fuel started in flight.
            In Perm, they decided to "cut", not to twist the glide path, also because of fuel economy, in the end they got lost, began to look for land and found a railway line.
            The mentioned UTair plane in Surgut, which was not treated with an anti-icer.

            Enough, or more? Otherwise, I can come over the weekend, I’ll ask.
            1. hardrokc
              hardrokc 22 March 2016 09: 51
              0
              Quote: alicante11
              Enough, or more?

              So they were always overloaded with something. For example, a military man who crashed in the Far East. And the corners were "cut". What does "now" have to do with it?
              1. alicante11
                alicante11 22 March 2016 13: 48
                0
                Despite the fact that then "corners were cut" out of arrogance, but now for economic reasons. One could be overloaded by a blockhead, but now all effective managers in aviation are like that, because money is the main thing.
            2. The comment was deleted.
        2. Al1977
          Al1977 21 March 2016 15: 44
          +1
          Quote: alicante11
          And secondly, disasters in Soviet times were mainly due to a technical factor - imperfection of technology,

          Can a couple of examples of technical problems in the USSR, and not the human factor?
  • siberalt
    siberalt 21 March 2016 07: 47
    +5
    On the same day, test pilot Magomed Tolboev expressed his version about the plane crash in Rostov. From which it follows that during a storm warning, air flows move vertically at a speed of up to 100 m / s. Having got into such a stream, the passenger liner was doomed. He even cites his own example, when he approached the landing of a fighter for several seconds from a height of 600 m, he turned out to be 100 m, and pulled it out thanks to the fast and the furious landing at a neighboring civilian airfield.
    Is it because the pilots of the liner at the last moment tried to gain altitude?
    1. FID
      FID 21 March 2016 08: 57
      +15
      Quote: siberalt
      Is it because the pilots of the liner at the last moment tried to gain altitude?

      I'm sorry, I'm just an engineer, though I studied in the USSR, that's why (I've been working in aviation for over 30 years) I propose my version ... On a second (and the first landing approach failed due to bad weather conditions and plane 2 hours "spinning" in the waiting area, but there was still a lot of fuel, the PIC asked the management of the a / c to leave for a spare, which is associated with costs, he was asked to repeat the landing ...). During the landing approach, the meteorological radar (I think, already, when capturing the glide path) issued the command "WINDSHIRE" (wind shear), after which the PIC pressed "GO ARRAUND" (go-around) ... The plane, after this command ( automatic mode, on ALL aircraft), sags 15-30 meters (the pilots are TRAINED at this moment DO NOT TOUCH the controls), if, during a drawdown, the pilots pull the control wheel FOR YOURSELF - this is a natural reaction, then the plane STALLING ...
      Once again, I beg your pardon ... I AM DEEPLY SORRY to the relatives of the victims ... I urge people NOT TO BE AFRAID of flying, BUT I urge you to be CAREFUL about "low-cost airlines" !!!!
      1. Herbalist
        Herbalist 21 March 2016 09: 49
        +2
        I wonder why in the cockpits and salons do not install video cameras with recording in black boxes? A video series could simplify the investigation of disasters and provide detailed information on the last minutes of the flight.
        At the current level of electronics, as for the amateur, this does not seem so difficult.
        1. FID
          FID 21 March 2016 10: 59
          +1
          Quote: Travnik
          I wonder why in the cockpits and salons do not install video cameras with recording in black boxes?

          They stand, the video is displayed on the CINEMA displays (integrated information and navigation environment, the second indicator on the cab picture on the right), in the call mode, but they are not written to the BSCD (on-board data monitoring system) ...
          1. Herbalist
            Herbalist 21 March 2016 11: 16
            +3
            And what prevents writing? After all, the benefits of such an introduction are visible. Or not?
            1. FID
              FID 21 March 2016 11: 32
              +1
              Quote: Travnik
              And what prevents writing? After all, the benefits of such an introduction are visible. Or not?

              Nothing prevents ... But, the pilots see what is happening in the cabin (in call mode), it is possible to record (in call recording mode) to identify terrorists in the cabin. But to write what is happening in the cockpit ... I have never seen objective data on a transcript ... I think there are enough voice recorders and parametric recorders ...
              1. vladim.gorbunow
                vladim.gorbunow 21 March 2016 11: 58
                0
                And do not tell me the type of recorder media? Is it magnetic wire? Or, roughly speaking, a flash drive. Or a duplicated system. Painfully decipher for a long time. On the Su-24 there were some dual, unsightly electric. boards.
                1. FID
                  FID 21 March 2016 12: 22
                  +2
                  Quote: vladim.gorbunow
                  And do not tell me the type of recorder media?

                  Speech - most often magnetic tape, wire (ring, a record of about 10 flights is stored, then the first one is erased, and so on ...). Parametric - USB flash drive (TBNK-solid-state on-board drive) ...
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. Al1977
              Al1977 22 March 2016 12: 07
              0
              Quote: Travnik
              And what prevents writing? After all, the benefits of such an introduction are visible. Or not?

              And what should this camera shoot? Instrument readings and the impact on the controls are recorded on a parametric recorder. Negotiations in speech. Visually see how the helm was turned, what will it do?
              1. Herbalist
                Herbalist April 1 2016 12: 54
                0
                Well, for example, did the pilot grab hold of the engine control levers or did it work for itself. Or here, the pilot controlled the stabilizer intentionally or hit him by accident.
      2. Al1977
        Al1977 21 March 2016 12: 23
        +1
        Quote: SSI
        he was asked to repeat the landing.

        The dispatcher does NOT offer ANYTHING. You should know this if you worked in aviation. Dispatchers give permission and inform about the situation on the strip (wind, sometimes traction on the strip)
        After that, the PIC pressed "GO ARRAUND" (go-around) ... The plane, after this command (automatic mode, on ALL aircraft), sags 15-30 meters

        Pressing this button causes the engines to take off. Engines are located below, so there is a cabrio. What is he sagging for?
        And so you tried to describe the Kazan catastrophe. But there, the pilots experienced a spatial loss, plus not understanding the computer logic when pressing GO Arraund when connecting one autopilot. It is quite possible here as well. The effect of icing is also possible if the anti-ice procedure is not performed correctly. In any case, it’s really hard to imagine what happened. The plane is just very good, one of the best in the world ..
        1. FID
          FID 21 March 2016 13: 45
          +3
          Quote: Al1977
          The dispatcher does NOT offer ANYTHING. You should know this if you worked in aviation.

          And where did you get the idea that I wrote about dispatchers ??? The PIC of the "owner" requested - this is a low-cost airline ... Have you ever been on a landing plane with "go arround"? Drawdown up to 10-15 meters, sometimes, before touching the landing gear of the runway, before the motors accelerate to takeoff mode ... And then, what is it "when you press GO Arraund while connecting one autopilot"? There are several autopilots on the plane ??? The autopilot WILL LEAVE the plane for a go-around, even after running along the lane, believe me ... The main thing is, DO NOT TOUCH the controls!
      3. alicante11
        alicante11 21 March 2016 14: 24
        +2
        I’m sorry, I’m just an engineer, though I studied in the USSR, therefore (I’ve been working in aviation for more than 30 years) I offer my version ..


        I will voice the version of my father, an aerodrome engineer, also of Soviet hardening. I retell, as I understood his explanation yesterday.
        Firstly, weather conditions, according to METAR, were normal for this side. Even the wind was not onboard, but almost in a strip (2-2 / 230), so there was nothing to do with the side wind.
        Secondly, there was information that the plane managed to climb up to 900 meters, after which a stall occurred. So the drawdown when going to the second (third) circle has nothing to do with it. In general, judging by the negotiations with the dispatcher, everything was normal. We said goodbye to the bye-bye landing dispatcher.
        The following scenario can be assumed without decoding the QW data. Cold rain at near-zero temperature and at high speed led to the formation of ice on the wing plane and incomplete retraction, the flap on one wing (were in the landing position when entering). As a result, when speeding up, stall occurred. A similar picture, only on take-off, was with the crash of the Ut-Air plane near Tyumen, when the plane was not treated with anti-icer.
        In fact, it is not clear what caused the repeated withdrawal to the second round. The pilot does not report anything about the reason for leaving and there is nothing in the dispatcher's messages that would indicate no reason.
        1. FID
          FID 21 March 2016 14: 51
          +1
          Quote: alicante11
          A similar picture, only on take-off, was with the crash of the Ut-Air plane near Tyumen, when the plane was not treated with anti-icer.

          I don’t exclude that BUT V-737-800 is not an ATR-72, there is an anti-icing system on it ... And the dispatcher would be warned about the possibility of icing ...
        2. aviamed90
          aviamed90 21 March 2016 16: 06
          +3
          alicante11

          I myself work as an aviation dispatcher. I usually sit at the start (at our airport it takes off, landing, taxiing).

          I agree with you that the side component of the wind has nothing to do with it.

          By simple calculations:
          PC = 218 deg. (Runway-xnumx)
          Wind direction - 230 deg.
          Wind speed - 14 m / s gusts 19 m / s

          Lateral component - 4 m / s (for 19 m / s)

          From RLE for Boeing-737:

          "The rules of the main action.
          - approach according to category II, II (automatic landing), IIIa according to ILS cannot be performed when the wind (or its gusts) exceeds:
          Oncoming - 20 nodes (10,29 m / s)
          Lateral - 15 nodes (7,7 m / s)
          Associated - 10 knots (5,1 m / s)

          ("737 Flight Manual", ed. "Continental", 2002, Sec. 3, p.205) (RLE Boieng-737-300 (500, 700, 800, 900))

          So, not a side wind.

          For wind shear, however, there is an entire Guide to Low-Altitude Wind Shear (ICAO Doc. 9817 AN / 449, 1st Edition, 2005).
          The main message of this manual is "AVOID AIRCRAFT EXPOSURE IN WIND SHEAR."

          Wind shear happens both in the horizontal plane and in the vertical, as well as in wind speed. At the approach stage, this is very dangerous. And the pilot, regardless of his training, can not always do something.

          It is damn difficult (almost impossible) to predict, predict and take any action in the context of an approach.

          So, personally, I am inclined to the version of R. Tolboev.
  • Same lech
    Same lech 21 March 2016 06: 31
    .
    Condolences to the relatives of the dead passengers.

    Unfortunately, here the dispatchers of the ROSTOVA airport also blundered a little ... they could have ordered the flight to be sent to a reserve airport ... if there is even the slightest danger of a catastrophe it is better not to risk people.
    I believe such things are happening and for the desire of pilots to save time, fuel .... it’s bad that there are such slippery nuances in the flight safety system.
    1. Armored optimist
      Armored optimist 21 March 2016 06: 42
      +17
      In civil aviation, ICAO does not have the right to give a command. Only information. This is tightly tracked. The decision is made only by the commander of the aircraft.
    2. fennekRUS
      fennekRUS 21 March 2016 06: 48
      +10
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      .Could and by order send the board to the alternate airport

      Could not! The dispatchers "give a corridor", and the decision whether to sit down or not is taken by the PIC.
    3. Homo
      Homo 21 March 2016 07: 22
      +2
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      Unfortunately, here the dispatchers of the ROSTOVA airport also blundered a little ... they could have ordered the flight to be sent to a reserve airport ... if there is even the slightest danger of a catastrophe it is better not to risk people.

      Teach materiel!
    4. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 21 March 2016 07: 41
      0
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      .could and by order send the board to the emergency airport ... if there is even the slightest danger of a catastrophe it is better not to risk people.

      Could send, not send means could not
      there are norms (maybe they need to be changed) according to them a decision was made
      1. FID
        FID 21 March 2016 09: 10
        +2
        Quote: Vasilenko Vladimir
        Could send, not send means could not

        The decision to land is taken by the PIC, not the controller ... I do not know what "FLIGHT PLAN" the PIC received before the departure from Dubai ... And what "true weather" was declared in the flight plan ...
    5. VIT101
      VIT101 21 March 2016 12: 06
      +2
      Quote: The same Lech


      Unfortunately, here the dispatchers of the ROSTOVA airport also blundered a little ... they could have ordered the flight to be sent to a reserve airport ... if there is even the slightest danger of a catastrophe it is better not to risk people.


      Think in the right direction. True, large "specialists" came running in aviation and pushed you cons. They insist on me. Only claims not to dispatchers, but specifically to the leadership of the Rostov airport. If they, due to weather conditions, closed the airport, and there was a reason - many planes went to alternate aerodromes, this board would also safely land somewhere. Formally, everything will be blamed on the crew commander (if a technical malfunction is not revealed, which is unlikely), but in fact a catastrophe is on the conscience of the owners of the airport.
      1. FID
        FID 21 March 2016 12: 25
        +6
        Quote: VIT101
        If they closed the airport due to weather conditions

        What is one reason for closing the airport by weather ??? The airport is equipped with instrumental landing systems, the meteo met the minimums, just stupidly close ??? For information, I NEVER put cons to anyone!
      2. Al1977
        Al1977 21 March 2016 12: 33
        +2
        Quote: VIT101
        If they had closed the airport due to weather conditions, and there was a reason - many planes would go to alternate aerodromes,

        There are conditions for the closure of the airport. They were not in this case. "By eye" the airports are not closed. In Kazan, the plane also crashed, it was necessary to close the airport, because it flew at night and the procedure for go around the pilot was stumped? Can only work during the day and in clear weather?
      3. Al1977
        Al1977 21 March 2016 12: 33
        0
        Quote: VIT101
        If they had closed the airport due to weather conditions, and there was a reason - many planes would go to alternate aerodromes,

        There are conditions for the closure of the airport. They were not in this case. "By eye" the airports are not closed. In Kazan, the plane also crashed, it was necessary to close the airport, because it flew at night and the procedure for go around the pilot was stumped? Can only work during the day and in clear weather?
      4. askort154
        askort154 21 March 2016 13: 07
        +1
        VIT101 ..... but actually a disaster on the conscience of the owners of the airport.

        Do you happen to be from Polish experts?
        1. FID
          FID 21 March 2016 13: 25
          +2
          Quote: askort154
          Do you happen to be from Polish experts?

          I welcome you, Sasha!
          1. askort154
            askort154 21 March 2016 14: 47
            +1
            SSI ..... I welcome you, Sasha!

            Mutually, Serge!
  • Sars
    Sars 21 March 2016 06: 35
    +4
    It was reported that while the Dubai Boeing circled over Rostov, the Ural Airlines plane landed, refueled and took off.
    1. Armored optimist
      Armored optimist 21 March 2016 06: 42
      +1
      Arrived, but others flew away.
  • drunkram
    drunkram 21 March 2016 06: 38
    -5
    Because enough to buy Boeing
    1. Armored optimist
      Armored optimist 21 March 2016 06: 56
      +9
      Anodina tried to take the certificate of airworthiness from the type. They pecked.
      The 737 is suspected of having a problem with the TO / GA key press mode - (take off / lap). When pressed, the control system adds thrust and shifts the stabilizer to pitch up. At the same time, taking into account the lower location of the motors, an additional torque for pitching arises. The plane rushes up, loses speed. If the pilots miss this, due to workload or inattention, then a stall on the wing and a spin occurs, while, due to the shifted stabilizer, there may not be enough handle, which must be given to dive in order to prevent loss of speed and prevent a stall. Apparently and incorrectly, the stall warning system sometimes works.
      Kazan disaster is very similar to this.
      If this version is confirmed, then a situation will arise when no one needs such conclusions. Everybody will put pressure on the MAC, both Dubai and the boenk and, possibly, ours. Although, on the other hand, one could fish in this muddy water. At stake is huge money, the authority of the slaughterhouse and the prestige of America, the same Dubai wanted to buy another 60 such devices. Stopping flights like all over the world and so on. Conversations in "famous circles" can be stressful. About oil, meldonium and Syria with Ukraine. Just do not need to argue about the dishonesty of trade in such a case. You can squeeze something out of a small town with a slaughterhouse, but at the same time force you to quietly reflash the brains of the devices.
      1. sa-ag
        sa-ag 21 March 2016 07: 51
        +1
        Quote: armored optimist
        but at the same time and force to quietly reflash the brains of the devices.

        yeah, we just take the laptop and reload the program, and who will pay for the certification of each aircraft after that?
      2. Baloo
        Baloo 21 March 2016 08: 45
        +6
        “If there is no weather, the final decision is made by the aircraft commander. So he accepted - to sit down
        Many years ago, in winter, with a strong side wind, they sat on the L410 in Samara. Only in the third round did the commander land. The airplane was thrown like a sliver.
        It was a must see. The plane went over a strip of degrees 40-45 to the axis of the strip, but clearly in the middle. Threw, chatted. And just before the ground, the commander clearly deployed and landed the plane accurately and softly at three points. How many years have passed, and I remember and often tell hi drinks good . Sorry did not ask the name of the commander. So mastery in any business is important.
        Kazan disaster is very similar to this.
        I live on the 11th floor in Victory Avenue, in good weather at night, lights of lanterns are visible at the airport, sometimes you can hear planes landing. I don’t remember the weather that evening, I accidentally went to the window. It was audible how the plane circled, the engines periodically literally roared. The first impression is that the aircraft is poorly controlled. Then the engines roared and there was a blow, I saw an explosion. Then, on the Internet, a message about the accident at the Kazan airport. It is not for me to judge the objectivity of the commission, but I still have the impression that the plane, which should have been written off a year earlier, was simply poorly controlled. On the internet, passengers flying on it to Moscow also noted poor handling and were glad that they flew by. Some wrote that they would never board this board. As for the other versions, this is due to the phrase of one of the commission members that there was a person in the cockpit who did not have the right to do this, but in fact, the pilots are not all right with the documents.
        The Rostov case is a coincidence. Somewhere it’s read that in South Korea the on-board commander is obliged to serve for some time in the Air Force and this is correct.
        Condolences to the relatives of the victims.
      3. Al1977
        Al1977 21 March 2016 13: 48
        0
        Quote: armored optimist
        It is assumed that on 737 there is a problem with the regime of going to the circle by pressing the TO / GA - button (take off / going to the circle). When pressed, its control system adds traction and shifts the stabilizer to cabling.

        But isn't the height of the circle set on the control panel specifically for leaving for the second circle? And when connecting both autopilots, the plane itself occupies this height without problems and can withstand the speed set on the panel. With manual flight control, the directors show the pilot the pitch values ​​to occupy the desired level. What is wrong with this system? The fact that the pilot did not cope with what he had to practice on the simulator, know from memory and discuss at a pre-landing briefing? And here the B737, which takes off EVERY 3 seconds in the world. Why don't they all fall?
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 21 March 2016 07: 44
      0
      Quote: drunkram
      Because enough to buy Boeing

      what does this have to do with arab airlines?
    4. Al1977
      Al1977 21 March 2016 12: 34
      -2
      Quote: drunkram
      Because enough to buy Boeing

      Tell me the model of your car? VAZ 2106?
      1. Baloo
        Baloo 21 March 2016 13: 15
        +3
        Why did the six not please you? I had sold it by virtue of circumstances. Not a Mercedes, but the ride is smooth, comfortable, maintenance costs less than all subsequent ones. The only thing missing was power and 6 gears.
        1. Al1977
          Al1977 21 March 2016 13: 38
          -3
          Quote: Balu
          Why did the six not please you? I had sold it by virtue of circumstances. Not a Mercedes, but the ride is smooth, comfortable, maintenance costs less than all subsequent ones. The only thing missing was power and 6 gears.

          The fact that after my Honda in my life I will not sit behind the wheel of the domestic auto industry. Over 160 tons of run NIOD major repairs. Exclusively consumables, pads, oil, etc. Prok comfort I don’t even say, it is simply incomparable. With the same success, one can compare Soviet Rubin TVs and modern HD panels. Both show the same. But this is a value judgment. Do you like our technology ... for taste and color ...
          1. not main
            not main 22 March 2016 00: 19
            +3
            Quote: Al1977
            You like our technique .. for taste and color.

            I put a minus, but not for that, but for comparing Rubin and the panel. By the way, our auto industry has gone far from the "six"! I know that I will ogreb minuses, but nevertheless, I drive exclusively in our car industry (GAZ and UAZ) and, frankly, there is no desire to change them for imports!
    5. Al1977
      Al1977 21 March 2016 12: 34
      -1
      Quote: drunkram
      Because enough to buy Boeing

      Tell me the model of your car? VAZ 2106?
  • Armored optimist
    Armored optimist 21 March 2016 06: 40
    +5
    Pay attention to the compactness of the ellipse of the expansion of fragments. The width of the strip is 148 feet, the length of the line along the axis is 30 m. Fragmentation zone of fragments no more than 300-400m. There is a small groove approximately 1m deep at the edge of the strip. There are no large fragments anywhere, there is only one photo with the Minister of Emergency Situations and the landing gear. Nowhere are the details of the engines visible. Usually, film crews immediately focus on precisely these elements - the chassis and engines. If you think that they managed to be removed before shooting, then I will say that the first photos were posted 2h23m after the disaster. There are no large debris on them, there are no trucks or cranes either. It is impossible to clean something without the permission of investigators, and Bastrykin gave such permission only in the middle of yesterday.
    1. Ayujak
      Ayujak 21 March 2016 07: 13
      +7
      Yes, the video shows that he fell almost vertically. That scatter is not large. Apparently the commander panicked. Stress caused by poor preparation for landing in such conditions. Typically, a disaster is always a combination of several factors. In this case, this is the pilot’s mistakes and the weather, and possibly something else.

      In any case, they rest in peace. It’s a pity that it happened. Therefore, value yourself and your loved ones. After all, you never know what will happen tomorrow.
      1. Armored optimist
        Armored optimist 21 March 2016 07: 21
        0
        Surely panicked. But after the stall began, it no longer mattered.
    2. vladim.gorbunow
      vladim.gorbunow 21 March 2016 12: 02
      0
      Is it possible to say about the brisant nature of the defeat of aircraft elements and bodies?
  • PKK
    PKK 21 March 2016 06: 41
    0
    It’s a strange pilot. It looks like a kamikaze. It flew up to the top, a swan song, then crashed down. Passengers are helpless in front of the pilot's madness. Landing them rest in peace. It’s a pity for fellow countrymen.
  • avg-mgn
    avg-mgn 21 March 2016 06: 59
    +6
    Everything is complicated. Let's wait a bit, they will put everything in its place, then we'll talk based on the official report. Let's be silent in memory of the dead ...
  • NKVD
    NKVD 21 March 2016 07: 04
    0
    I don’t understand how the travel agency can answer for the airline’s actions. These are two different things. Obviously, the low-cost ticket was chosen based on the price of the ticket, there was probably a more expensive ticket option but not the low-cost ticket. Judging by the plane’s route, the pilot clearly did not underestimate the danger that awaits upon landing .During the 2 hours that he cut circles producing fuel, it was possible to fly over and land safely in Krasnodar or Sochi and at the same time save fuel if he was so eager, and he would fly to Moscow. Only the pilot, namely the crew commander, is to blame.
    1. Armored optimist
      Armored optimist 21 March 2016 07: 15
      +2
      He had no need to produce fuel. He took it on both ends and a reserve of 30min. Those. hoped to sit down with a gas station. This is regular. But I certainly was in stress. I flew to Rostov for the first time, the AP there is complicated, the weather is bad.
    2. roman_pilot
      roman_pilot 21 March 2016 12: 43
      +1
      Blamed the crew - how simple it turns out! Moreover, they can no longer answer you. Any flight accident is a combination of various factors, and the crew is on top of this mountain, so they get all the bumps. Wait for the results of the investigation before drawing hasty conclusions.
  • Waltasar
    Waltasar 21 March 2016 07: 20
    +8
    The end of the article discouraged, the division of the dead into "accomplished personalities" and everyone else.
  • Pvi1206
    Pvi1206 21 March 2016 07: 30
    0
    Hypothesis.
    In Russia, air disasters in recent years have often happened. In many of them, famous people died (politicians businessmen, journalists).
    For example, in the disaster of Kazan, the son of the president of Tatarstan was killed. In Perm - a well-known politician, I don’t remember my last name now.
    The cause of disasters can serve as an external impact on the management of the aircraft. Boeing and Airbus, which have a high degree of automation, can intercept control from the ground (such notes appeared in the press).
    1. bober1982
      bober1982 21 March 2016 08: 45
      0
      No need to fantasize, your imagination is very developed, I did not minus you.
      In Perm, a military general was killed, not a politician.
      1. vladim.gorbunow
        vladim.gorbunow 21 March 2016 10: 49
        +1
        What is fantasy? The flight control system at all stages of civil aviation aircraft (forced from the ground) was tested in April - May 2001 on the route California - Australia. You can recall the flight into space of the Soviet Buran in 1988 completely without a crew. Today, external management systems are standard. But talking about them is not accepted. These are security systems, but not flight. Did them by September 11th.
        1. bober1982
          bober1982 21 March 2016 11: 02
          0
          If you only see enough films such as "07-th changes course", then you can talk about external influence.
          Now all planes have a high degree of automation, not only Boeings, they have forgotten how to fly manually, the problems are even with leaving for the second round.
  • Volga Cossack
    Volga Cossack 21 March 2016 07: 40
    +1
    Condolences sincerely ....... I do not want to write ...
  • sergeyzzz
    sergeyzzz 21 March 2016 07: 43
    0
    Quote: drunkram
    Because enough to buy Boeing

    And what do you deign to fly? An analogue of this type of Boeing in Russia has just begun to be developed, everything else is the development of the 80s of the last century. Here I consider the fault of the owner of the aircraft - a poorly trained crew was sent, the pilots worked in greenhouse conditions, and this is the result.
  • pokermen
    pokermen 21 March 2016 07: 59
    0
    The airport was going to be moved outside the city limits at the end of the 90s, but due to the introduction of market relations, there were no time for large-scale national construction projects, and everything remained the same. True, today the authorities are actively promoting the project of the new airport, but its construction has not yet begun.

    New already 1,5 years as they build winked
  • 1536
    1536 21 March 2016 08: 04
    +2
    Condolences to the families of the victims!
    Last October, he returned from a business trip to Sochi. He flew on the Tu-204. When they flew up to Domodedovo, the plane could not land the first time - a strong crosswind (later I heard in the weather forecast that it was 18-20 m / s), chattering, evening came, it snowed and visibility was low. The commander went to the second round. When they began to land, the plane rocked on its wings from side to side, as on a swing, but it leveled off the very ground, and we landed. Thank God! And A.N. Tupolev.
    I compared the performance characteristics of the Tu-204 and the performance characteristics of this Boeing-737 - in terms of wingspan (an important parameter of an airplane flying in Russia). The Tu-204 has a wingspan of 41,8 m, the Boeing 737 has 34,32. We have already said that this plane cannot plan on wings and falls into a tailspin. I have no conclusions. The tragedy is terrible. But flying our planes is still better. And probably break too. There is someone to blame in this case ...
    1. Al1977
      Al1977 21 March 2016 13: 00
      0
      Quote: 1536
      . The Tu-204 has a wingspan of 41,8 m, the Boeing 737 has 34,32.

      TU-204 is still an analogue of B757 / 767, not 737 ... In Vnukovo, he could not land in normal weather conditions ... Therefore, it is not a plane. And the B737-800 is really a very good aircraft .. our analogue, unfortunately, is not. We are waiting for MC21 ...
      1. FID
        FID 21 March 2016 15: 12
        +1
        Quote: Al1977
        TU-204 is still an analogue of B757 / 767,

        B-767 what Makar got here ??? What 757 and 767 classmates, in your opinion ???
        1. Ruslan67
          Ruslan67 21 March 2016 15: 24
          +2
          Quote: SSI
          What are 757 and 767 classmates,

          Facebookbooks fool You are not tired of spoiling your nerves in education ........ in?
          1. FID
            FID 21 March 2016 15: 57
            +1
            Quote: Ruslan67
            You are not tired of spoiling your nerves in education ........ in?

            Tired, you're right ...
            1. Ruslan67
              Ruslan67 21 March 2016 16: 02
              +3
              Quote: SSI
              you're right...

              I don’t rejoice from my innocence sad When I came here the level of even trolls was an order of magnitude higher. And now, even a sincere patriot wants to shove her mother to stay until the deadline ...
              1. FID
                FID 21 March 2016 16: 32
                +1
                Quote: Ruslan67
                That’s not a damn thing I’m happy about when I came here. Even the level of trolls was an order of magnitude higher. And now, even a sincere patriot wants to shove her mother to stay until the deadline ...

                And again right ... But, unfortunately, too many "sincere ..." appeared! And the trolls are NOT diminishing ...
  • Pitot
    Pitot 21 March 2016 08: 12
    +3
    Where's the funnel? Or I don’t understand and there shouldn’t be a crater from the blow?
    1. vladim.gorbunow
      vladim.gorbunow 21 March 2016 10: 56
      0
      They remembered how in the Pentagon a Boeing struck 8 capital walls with its nose, the towers were demolished? We have concrete of the wrong system.
      1. Baloo
        Baloo 21 March 2016 11: 54
        +1
        All the material accumulated by Western experts was put into the petagon by the tomahawk on the Internet.
        Pay attention to the approach video: is it really a Boeing? Pay attention to the absence of fire. How much fuel is on the tomahawk and how much is on the Boeing?
        A few days before the event, at the level of 1 m from the ground, all lampposts were cut down along the path in the park.
        As far as I remember, 3 rows of the building are broken, in the last wall in the photo the diameter is about 1.5-2 sq.m. And the lack of fire again. According to Western journalists
        the target turned out to be that part of the building where the department located on Afghanistan, Alkaida and the Middle East was located.
        1. vladim.gorbunow
          vladim.gorbunow 21 March 2016 14: 55
          +1
          There is a more interesting version from Dmitry Khalezov, a friend of Viktor Bout. He claims that it was a Granit anti-ship missile taken from the Kursk nuclear submarine. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lec9giab90I At the 27th minute the story about Granite begins, at the 30th minute you can see the diagram of the penetration of the Pentagon and the photo of the last breakthrough of the wall. At 2h 35m they return to this topic. http://clubvi.ru/news/2012/11/11/dokole/ Article in Russian. To quote: This missile is considered indestructible because NATO has no means to shoot it down, even if it is detected. In fact, this happened in the case of the attack on the Pentagon on September 11, 2001. NORAD [North American Air Defense Command - an analogue of the Soviet air defense of the country] managed to detect the approaching Granite 6 minutes before the missile hit the Pentagon.

          NORAD operative officers managed to sound an atomic alarm, managed to raise the so-called “Doomsday Aircraft” [the US strategic forces airborne command post based on a special modification of the Boeing-747, designed to coordinate a retaliatory nuclear strike against the USSR in case the USSR hits first and incapacitates stationary command posts], but could not prevent the actual hit of a rocket. ... Probably, I should also note that this is the most durable missile in the world - it is made of thick steel, and in fact it can be compared with a flying tank or with a giant bullet. Due to the enormous speed, weight and strength of the hull, this rocket managed to pierce through the whole six major walls of the Pentagon, hitting this building on September 11, 2001.
  • guzik007
    guzik007 21 March 2016 08: 21
    +1
    The airport was going to be moved outside the city limits at the end of the 90s, but due to the introduction of new market relations, there were no time for large-scale nationwide construction projects
    -------------------------------------------------- -----
    .... And this including ...
  • salad
    salad 21 March 2016 08: 25
    0
    ..........................................
  • L92140
    L92140 21 March 2016 08: 32
    0
    Interest psychology of people when the plane crashes noise, relatives, photos of the dead, condolences, etc. and nobody in FIG is interested in those on average 100 people who die daily in Russia in car accidents.
    What is the reason?
    1. Al1977
      Al1977 21 March 2016 14: 00
      +2
      Quote: L92140
      Interest psychology of people when the plane crashes noise, relatives, photos of the dead, condolences, etc. and nobody in FIG is interested in those on average 100 people who die daily in Russia in car accidents.
      What is the reason?

      With the fact that immediately a large number of people die, with the fact that there are practically no chances to survive, with the fact that aviation is something inexplicable, few people understand how 100 tons of piece of iron flies in principle. And the car ... it's something personal, everyone has a car and everyone has got into different incidents, this is not a curiosity.
  • Kamchatsky
    Kamchatsky 21 March 2016 09: 15
    +4
    There are more questions than answers.
    Condolences to all who have lost their loved ones. Land they rest in peace.
    Why didn’t the aircraft commander go to the emergency? It is very likely that this is his decision - company policy. By any means - saving. (It recalls the case in Tyumen, stall on take-off due to icing. There, additional processing of the aircraft with reagents is minus from the FAC salary)
    The commander flies to an unfamiliar airport for him, the more so the forecast - according to the limit. And transportation in such cases does not help? Or at least a flight with an inspector who has already flown to this airport? Of course, I don’t know how the Arabs adopted, but the logic tells something ...
    Following. A modern airplane is a pretty clever thing, but you also need to be able to turn it in hand-to-hand combat, and now pilots practically do not know how to turn the handle. Last summer, I took a graduate of UVAU GA with me, gave control over, so I almost killed him, you bastard. Where do they get experience? They do not want to go to AHR, they dream of white shirts and flight attendants, but in chemistry they get the very necessary piloting skills, they learn to feel the plane with their fingertips.
    Well, thinking about flying in flight is a very useful activity. (with)
    Well, to the question of the professionalism of the author:
    Then he went on a landing, dropped to 1500 meters, after which he soared up to 4000 meters in a few seconds, while gaining speed(! note). And then suddenly a stone falls to the ground.
    1. drilled
      drilled 21 March 2016 10: 30
      +1
      What is the saving if he burned several tons of fuel while standing in the waiting area for 2 hours?
  • eleronn
    eleronn 21 March 2016 09: 22
    +1
    Before deciphering the on-board parametric drives, discussions are meaningless.
  • Dazdranagon
    Dazdranagon 21 March 2016 09: 23
    +1
    True, today the authorities are actively promoting the project of the new airport, but its construction has not yet begun. - Polina, one remark - a new airport has been built for a long time, that even appeared on Yandex maps - https://gyazo.com/7b38bba44a163e7e5d2e55d7976dc545. hi
    1. efimovaPE
      21 March 2016 10: 26
      +2
      Oh, sorry. Something I was very upset can be seen. Until now, I cannot "move away" from the article, my soul hurts. Of course, this airport is already under construction. One strip is almost ready there.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • ruAlex
    ruAlex 21 March 2016 09: 45
    +2
    Mourn for the dead. And I wish all pilots that the number of flights is equal to the number of landings.
  • AdekvatNICK
    AdekvatNICK 21 March 2016 09: 45
    +2
    I will never understand why fly on vacation to another country.
  • Vladimir
    Vladimir 21 March 2016 09: 59
    +2
    Of course, they will establish the cause of the tragedy, I would like the conclusions of what happened to give their results and things like this would not happen anymore, but at God's will. Sincere condolences to the families of the victims.
  • Kachesgm
    Kachesgm 21 March 2016 10: 06
    +1
    This is a question for knowledgeable people. All the last three disasters with this Boeing were when loading the aircraft at one third of its passenger capacity and their baggage, respectively. Maybe the problem is that this affects the underload of the aircraft. Does the automation of the aircraft take this data into account and how hard is it to fly with a strong wind on a lighter car?
  • drilled
    drilled 21 March 2016 10: 34
    +1
    The problem is that the pilots of the Civil Air Fleet have forgotten how to fly. Both ours and the enemy. Remember Tyumen? Cadets are taught leaving for the second round from the first flights, but what about those that fall into corkscrew on leaving. Why? Because all enemy vehicles are certified for boarding in automatic mode, and the pilot will receive a fine if he decides to turn off the automation. In a non-standard situation, the pilots try to take control - and here is the result - he pulled the handle, stall and corkscrew from fright.
  • drilled
    drilled 21 March 2016 10: 40
    +1
    Quote: SSI
    Quote: siberalt
    Is it because the pilots of the liner at the last moment tried to gain altitude?

    I'm sorry, I'm just an engineer, though I studied in the USSR, that's why (I've been working in aviation for over 30 years) I propose my version ... On a second (and the first landing approach failed due to bad weather conditions and plane 2 hours "spinning" in the waiting area, but there was still a lot of fuel, the PIC asked the management of the a / c to leave for a spare, which is associated with costs, he was asked to repeat the landing ...). During the landing approach, the meteorological radar (I think, already, when capturing the glide path) issued the command "WINDSHIRE" (wind shear), after which the PIC pressed "GO ARRAUND" (go-around) ... The plane, after this command ( automatic mode, on ALL aircraft), sags 15-30 meters (the pilots are TRAINED at this moment DO NOT TOUCH the controls), if, during a drawdown, the pilots pull the control wheel FOR YOURSELF - this is a natural reaction, then the plane STALLING ...
    Once again, I beg your pardon ... I AM DEEPLY SORRY to the relatives of the victims ... I urge people NOT TO BE AFRAID of flying, BUT I urge you to be CAREFUL about "low-cost airlines" !!!!

    I agree.
  • AlmaAta
    AlmaAta 21 March 2016 11: 08
    +1
    But what if the plane’s electronics were deliberately programmed to crash?
  • Pitot
    Pitot 21 March 2016 11: 14
    0
    And yet where is the funnel? About 80 tons to the ground (not concrete) is no joke.
    1. vladim.gorbunow
      vladim.gorbunow 21 March 2016 12: 44
      0
      Reported. The TFR gave the command to remove the debris, after which the pit was leveled and the plates were changed in 40 minutes. The planes are made of aluminum. polyurethane foam and a little bit of titanium. Aircraft crumple upon impact on a dense and solid. Remember the crazy German marathon runner. He bought two Audi for himself and his bride, he suddenly realized this as an irreparable grief. Then he locked himself in the cockpit, grabbed the belly of the commander immediately after take-off and dropped the Watermelon 320. He did not even burn the grass.
  • DmitryK
    DmitryK 21 March 2016 12: 14
    0
    By the way, in Perm, after the fall of the Boeing, there was no crater.
  • Ilya77
    Ilya77 21 March 2016 13: 09
    +1
    Natalie tours behaved in a swine, about insurance, I hope they do not come out of the water dry.
    1. FID
      FID 21 March 2016 13: 27
      +5
      Quote: Ilya77
      Natalie tours behaved in a swine, about insurance, I hope they do not come out of the water dry.

      Otherwise, how do the capitalists behave? The main thing is to make a profit, the losses are paid by the client! And our state is capitalist ...
      1. Al1977
        Al1977 21 March 2016 14: 18
        +1
        Quote: SSI
        Otherwise, how do the capitalists behave? The main thing is to make a profit, the losses are paid by the client! And our state is capitalist ...

        And who behaves differently? State? Is this the one that raises excises and taxes during a crisis? Are you against capitalism and ... for communism? Is it when everyone is free? And other tales? An example of successful countries is it possible?
        1. FID
          FID 21 March 2016 15: 10
          +3
          Quote: Al1977
          Is it when everyone is free?

          Distort again? Do not...
          1. Al1977
            Al1977 21 March 2016 15: 26
            -2
            Quote: SSI
            Distort again? Do not...

            Not at all. I lived in the USSR and believed that we had to endure and there would be Communism, and then everyone would be happy and everything would be free, we were told this at school. There was nothing to eat, for a can of Coca-Cola you could give anything .. but so communism is ahead, so "wait and be patient." Life has shown that neither communism nor food ... "so big, but you believe everything in fairy tales" my government told me)))
            1. FID
              FID 21 March 2016 15: 49
              +4
              Quote: Al1977
              Not at all. I lived in the USSR and believed that it was necessary to tolerate and there will be Communism, and then all will be happy and all for free, we were told this at school

              At school they said - from each according to work, to each according to his needs, and not for free ...
              1. Al1977
                Al1977 21 March 2016 15: 59
                0
                Quote: SSI
                Quote: Al1977
                Not at all. I lived in the USSR and believed that it was necessary to tolerate and there will be Communism, and then all will be happy and all for free, we were told this at school

                At school they said - from each according to work, to each according to his needs, and not for free ...

                I was about 10-12 years old, and I believed in free communism. But that is not the point. Having visited many European countries, I realized that they very well live well and lived before. Better than us. So much for the grin of capitalism.
                1. Cat man null
                  Cat man null 21 March 2016 16: 02
                  +2
                  Quote: Al1977
                  Quote: SSI
                  Quote: Al1977
                  Not at all. I lived in the USSR and believed that it was necessary to tolerate and there will be Communism, and then all will be happy and all for free, we were told this at school

                  At school they said - from each according to work, to each according to his needs, and not for free ...

                  I was about 10-12 years old, and I believed in free communism. But that is not the point. Having visited many European countries, I realized that they very well live well and lived before. Better than us. So much for the grin of capitalism.

                  Colleagues, I apologize, but you have mixed up all the slogans here:

                  - socialism is "from each according to his ability, to each according to his work"
                  - communism - "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs"

                  Somehow hi
                  1. FID
                    FID 21 March 2016 16: 34
                    +1
                    Quote: Cat Man Null
                    Colleagues, I apologize, but you have mixed up all the slogans here:

                    - socialism is "from each according to his ability, to each according to his work"
                    - communism - "from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs

                    It's to blame, my head is busy with others, I’ll correct myself!
                2. 16112014nk
                  16112014nk 21 March 2016 16: 29
                  +3
                  Quote: Al1977
                  . Having visited many European countries, I realized that they very well live well and lived before.

                  What quality have you been to in many countries of Europe? A tourist or lived and worked in Europe? There is a good joke about heaven and hell on this subject.
        2. vladim.gorbunow
          vladim.gorbunow 21 March 2016 16: 29
          +3
          Communism is not when everything is free for everyone. Communism is when everyone, an individual, a person realizes his personal interest and his own success in the success of a common cause. Simplified - came to work, you are wondering that the workshop would perform a shift task without disruptions and accidents. Many capitalists are communists and propagate communism in their factories. But the trouble is that capitalists make profit (achieve success) not only in general success, but not in success. Then the capitalist says: Nothing personal. This is a business. They make a profit (steal) not only from income, but also from losses. If you want examples, there are enough of them. Losses are spread over the crowd of "fools".
      2. hardrokc
        hardrokc 21 March 2016 14: 39
        0
        Quote: SSI
        And our state is capitalist ...

        Yes?
    2. 97110
      97110 21 March 2016 14: 14
      +2
      Quote: Ilya77
      Natalie Tours acted like a pig about pigs,

      And you, personally, purchased insurance under OSAGO when it was NOT OBLIGATORY? Maybe now you are insuring according to DOSAGO? Or are you behaving like a pig? For a travel agency, this insurance is NOT REQUIRED! A person is able to insure himself according to the National Assembly - for some reason he does not want to. And then offended people walk around the administrations, discussing the topic "the whole street had to be on fire - then the President would have helped."
      1. Ilya77
        Ilya77 22 March 2016 07: 45
        0
        Quote: 97110
        Quote: Ilya77
        Natalie Tours acted like a pig about pigs,

        And you, personally, purchased insurance under OSAGO when it was NOT OBLIGATORY? Maybe now you are insuring according to DOSAGO? Or are you behaving like a pig? For a travel agency, this insurance is NOT REQUIRED! A person is able to insure himself according to the National Assembly - for some reason he does not want to. And then offended people walk around the administrations, discussing the topic "the whole street had to be on fire - then the President would have helped."


        What attacked like jackals, go at least once abroad, you will see how much they tear for travel agency insurance, how much life insurance costs for a year.
        1. hardrokc
          hardrokc 22 March 2016 09: 55
          0
          Quote: Ilya77
          see how much they tear for travel agency insurance

          3 kopecks, figuratively speaking. Travel insurance costs 3 kopecks, no more. But it also covers about the same amount.
    3. hardrokc
      hardrokc 21 March 2016 14: 39
      +1
      Quote: Ilya77
      Natalie tours behaved in a swine, about insurance, I hope they do not come out of the water dry.

      And these are what are to blame for? Where did you see accident insurance included in the standard tour package? And show me a tourist who would buy it independently and voluntarily.
  • Sercaptain
    Sercaptain 21 March 2016 14: 17
    +2
    Yes, a lot is said correctly and not by broad but narrow specialists, Confuses a few moments - it happened and most likely (my opinion) was planned in relation to the date and geographically to the place. There are many comparisons to this. What could have prompted the pilot to act as a kamikaze (just as a person, personal motives) - one can only guess. Even in this scanty information on the personalities of the victims - the damage to the country. A more detailed list of who was who can give some suggestions. Passengers were gathered for this flight and travel agencies "washed" their hands. Taking into account the possibilities of weather forecasting, especially this one, it can be assumed that this is not just the case. Remote control of the aircraft is possible. I just want the time to come quickly. when it would be possible to fly ONLY by Aeroflot planes!
    PS You can logically explain how this could happen and so on. And these different explanations will be correct regarding a specific event. But if you look at such events more broadly, from different angles - the conclusion is completely different
    1. hardrokc
      hardrokc 21 March 2016 14: 46
      -2
      Quote: SerCaptain
      So I want the time to come quickly. when you could fly ONLY Aeroflot planes!

      If such a time comes, then a flight, as a means of transportation, you can hardly afford. Monopoly, it is always prohibitively expensive. Have to travel on the way.
  • AlNikolaich
    AlNikolaich 21 March 2016 14: 50
    +3
    Condolences to the relatives of all the dead ...
    I read the comments, I thought ... I looked through the Internet, and interesting facts that you won’t run away from! Some doubt crept into the soul after the Kazan tragedy, now it has only strengthened! Colleagues, during the operation of the Boeing 737, for the 2013 year, 174 aircraft were killed, and along with them 3835 people! And this is not counting the losses from terrorism and hostilities! This is the most emergency plane in the world! And it continues to be exploited ... All data is freely available! But for some reason everyone is silent about this!
    1. Arikkhab
      Arikkhab 21 March 2016 18: 18
      0
      1) Condolences to the relatives of the victims!
      2) a little bit wrong ... B-737 has produced 1966 units since 8,920, 368 aircraft lost in accidents and accidents with 4,862 dead + 111 hijacked aircraft with 325 dead. Analysis for 1959–2013 showed that the aircraft of the "original series" had a loss rate of 1.75 aircraft per million (!) Sorties versus 0.54 for the "classic series" and 0.27 for the Next Generation series. to call this plane the "most emergency" in the world ??? depending on where ... for example, Australian Quantis or Israeli El Al or Ryanair have been operating this type of aircraft for decades without problems ... it all depends on the training of the aircraft and the crew.
      for comparison, TU-154 type aircraft produced 1,026 units, of which 179 aircraft were lost (for various reasons) with 3172 dead
  • Free Cossack
    Free Cossack 21 March 2016 15: 45
    +1
    The kingdom of heaven untimely departed! Condolences to the family! Mourn
  • 16112014nk
    16112014nk 21 March 2016 16: 03
    +5
    Quote: AlNikolaich
    But for some reason everyone is silent about this!

    Especially the iPhone lover! How he angrily demanded to ban the flights of "Jacob", after the disaster with HC "Lokomotiv". And now the language is in one place. For him, "Watermelons" and "Bobiki" are the same as an iPhone. The subtle soul of an esthete cannot stand anything domestic. And everything Soviet is generally allergic. And his son, for example, is allergic to birch pollen. There was a birch grove near the LADY's country cottage. To prevent his son from suffering from pollen, they cut it all down, despite the protests of local residents, for whom this was the only resting place. Now my son is learning and enjoying life with our enemies in England, but there is no grove, and the inhabitants have nowhere to enjoy nature. But this no longer worries the iPhone lover. This, as they say, is another story!
  • Karelof
    Karelof 21 March 2016 16: 06
    0
    I came across this opinion:



    I'm not a bot) I have been reading for more than 2 years, but now I decided to register.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • rzstas
    rzstas 21 March 2016 16: 41
    +3
    Pauline, put a fat minus.
    Let's get into parts:
    1. ".. The flight routes are also simplified. Even the stewardesses here perform several functions: they clean the cabin, check in passengers, etc.

    The crews of some airlines load their luggage themselves, and then sit at the controls of the aircraft, spending several hours in the air ... "
    To clarify, there are no "simplified" flight routes, but in Europe and the United States, with an extensive network of airfields, flights to the so-called "minor" airports are possible, where rates for ground handling and passenger dues are lower. So-called grand companies, for example AFL, they also use "cheap" airports, for example Aeroflot flies to the Czech Republic, both to Prague and Ostrava. Nothing wrong with that.
    Further, the cabin of the Aeroflot cockpit does the cleaning of the aircraft for safety reasons .. it’s not a matter of economy; it is ALWAYS that passengers check-in for a flight, mind you, only specialized ground personnel, for your information, this is a separate specialty in the civil aviation world that requires considerable knowledge, language and experience. Well, pilots loading baggage on their own flight is a gross violation of the basic rules of aviation security - I don’t even comment on where you wrote it off?
    2. "Flying over the territory of the Rostov region, for three hours he dodged, making strange maneuvers long before the airport ... But, finally flying up to Rostov, he began to write again strange small circles, following the same loop. for two hours. "
    This is-called-the presence of aircraft in the waiting area of ​​the air traffic control of the Rostov airport-nothing criminal in the behavior of the FAC, absolutely. There is fuel, there is time, the crew was waiting for good weather.
    Another thing is how he proceeded further, I will not comment until the commission's conclusions, there are serious "sharks" on this in their business, they will dot all the "i" s. I will add that the PIC has flown -6000 hours, which is five years in the air. The captain of this plane had every reason to work normally and believe me, getting a pilot's license outside of Russia is not as easy as you think. There may not be any national peculiarities affecting the quality of piloting, there is no need to hint that the Cypriot pilot is accustomed only to good weather, I’ll tell you so, flying over the sea is still a pleasure and the pilots of Greece, Cyprus, Turkey know very well. what is wind shear.
    3. "" The reason for the crash of the Boeing 737-500 VQ-BBN was systemic deficiencies in identifying hazards and controlling the level of risk, as well as the inoperability of the airline's safety management system and the lack of control over the level of training of crew members by the aviation authorities of all levels ( Tatar MTU VT, Rossaviation), which led to the admission to flights of an unprepared crew, "- says the report of the commission of the Interstate Aviation Committee" - with this phrase you yourself summed up the line .. And here is the most used aircraft in Civil Aviation, deservedly beloved by pilots? Anodina's letter was sent after the operator's certificate was revoked from the airline, of which she co-owned, for a minute, the operator of numerous, those same Boeing 737s, of various generations.
    Pauline, I express my condolences to the families and relatives of all the victims, this is terrible grief for all of us.
    Nevertheless, keep your conclusions to yourself, do not disturb the minds with information taken from the ceiling.
    Let's wait for the conclusions of the commission, they will be professional, clear and not ambiguous, and until then, you are not capable of evaluating the plane, the work of the crew, the level of professional training.
    1. efimovaPE
      21 March 2016 18: 18
      +1
      The crew has already shown their professionalism - they have ruined fifty lives. Our pilots in war knew how to land planes and not under such conditions. If you know everything so well, answer: "What program did the FAC study according to?"
  • Signore Tomato
    Signore Tomato 21 March 2016 18: 33
    0
    The feeling that the author of the Russian language is not native.
    Strange construction of phrases. The paragraph begins with one thought, ends with another, completely unconnected logically.
    Current loggers - they are ... loggers.
    1. efimovaPE
      21 March 2016 18: 45
      0
      So what's the problem? Write for yourself! Good luck!
  • Aleksandr1959
    Aleksandr1959 21 March 2016 19: 20
    0
    In the circumstances that caused the pilot not to leave for the alternate aerodrome, it is very difficult to understand.
    I bring the case of the 90s. Akhtubinsk, 929 GLITS. Due to the sharp deterioration of the weather all the planes were sent to an alternate airfield in Astrakhan. Plus, in my opinion, when landing with a crosswind at the end of the run, the Tu-95 was blown off the runway. Evening. this means that we would have to spend the night there. Chief of Flight Safety Service 929 GLITs, performed a flight on the Su-27UB. The second, or as it was still called "Dalnyaya" band, did not function then. Having agreed with the RP, the pilots put the car for taxiing between the first and second runways. They planted them safely. But ... in the morning, at a meeting with the then Chief of the GLITs, Lieutenant-General Yuri Petrovich Klishin, the head of the SBP received such ... that even those present at the meeting felt sorry for him.
  • Orionvit
    Orionvit 21 March 2016 23: 50
    +3
    Quote: Oleg147741
    Quote: armored optimist
    In addition to the money issue, the commander was under pressure from other circumstances.

    Absolutely right. We are all much to blame, but how would everyone act in his place in the same profession?

    In aviation, there are certain rules that, as the pilots themselves say, are written in blood. And their observance is mandatory. If the crew commander, contrary to all the written rules, decided to land (although there were recommendations to leave for an alternate airfield), then the fault lies entirely with him. What other "circumstances" can there be when human lives are entrusted to you? Which in addition also paid for the ticket. Aviation does not forgive amateur performances and mistakes, but pay with human lives. By the way, we still need to deal with the airline and the crew themselves. What can be the flitting and what kind of interaction in the carriage, where "there is a pair of every creature", a hodgepodge of a team from all over the world. Who let them fly? Gathered everyone who is ready to work at a cheaper rate? Then the preparation is so surprising.
  • Klibanophoros
    Klibanophoros 22 March 2016 01: 14
    -2
    Actually, one question: where is the plane? And if the wreckage was removed, (before the arrival of the manufacturer’s commission?) Then where are the traces of the equipment, or at least a photo of the equipment itself that cleans the wreckage? The problem also lies in the fact that tire marks left much more distinct marks on the ground than the wreckage itself.
    As a rule, the analysis of blockages and the search for corpses takes several days, apart from other investigative actions. So, it seems to me - they are trying to ** us again.