Military Review

Kornet-EM - anti-tank systems without complexes

209
Kornet-EM - anti-tank systems without complexes



Tula KBP is the leading design organization of the defense industry of Russia, the team of which has developed, mastered the serial production of more than 150 weapons and military equipment. The fact that it is possible to force rivers on the Metis, and to fire from not only the Kornet-EM anti-tank missile system tanks, but Oleg ODNOKOLENKO, representatives of the anti-tank development unit, also told about the air and surface targets, the deputy executive editor of the Independent Military Review, Oleg ODNOKOLENKO weapons, Mikhail ANDREYEV and Sergey MAST.

“Tank builders claim that after the appearance of new generation armored vehicles, including our“ Almaty ”, the standoff of armor and anti-tank weapons ended in favor of tanks. Do you agree?

Mikhail Andreev: For ethical and patriotic reasons, we cannot discuss our equipment. In addition, from our side it would be presumptuous to make any statements about the effectiveness of our complexes against "Almaty", because its development has not yet been completed and tank builders carefully hide their secrets. And in relation to existing foreign tanks, we can say that the rockets of the Kornet-E and Kornet-EM complexes penetrate more than a meter of armored steel, including behind dynamic protection. Not a single modern tank has such armor.

Sergey Mast: At one of the negotiations on the supply of ATGM "Cornet-E", the foreign customer, brigadier general of tank forces, expressed his decisive opinion: "If someone says that" Cornet-E "is not the best anti-tank complex in the world, I I will personally bite myself! ”And the translator clarified that this is a literal translation, not an interpretation. In general, the superiority of the "Cornet" is recognized by all. Even competitors. When we meet at exhibitions, they say: there is nothing better than our ATGM - the simplest, most reliable and at the same time very powerful and effective.

- And if the armor is combined?

MA.: Combined armor is an alternating set of plates of various metallic and non-metallic materials, which has a certain equivalent in terms of homogeneous steel, but it still turns out to be less than a meter. In addition, tanks, as a rule, only frontal projection is seriously defended, and along the sides and rear armor is much thinner ...

- And who owns the idea of ​​firing anti-tank systems at air targets? Was it a technical assignment or was the idea born already during the operation?

MA: This is the idea of ​​Arkady Georgievich Shipunov - in the context of the development of anti-tank missile systems to give them a new feature: the ability to hit air targets. All of our previously developed complexes - and the "Competition", and "Metis", and "Cornet-E" - are in principle capable of firing at air targets, for example, at hovering helicopters. Then another property was added: the possibility of hitting low-speed targets.

SM: The point is: the Kornet-EM guided missile, designed for firing at air targets, is equipped with the NDC - a non-contact target sensor that allows you to hit a target at a distance without a direct hit. This is fundamentally important, because the air target has high maneuverability, and at a long range a direct hit is quite problematic. But due to the use of the NDC in a guided missile, we can hit the target with an allowable miss of up to 3 meters due to the high-explosive action that occurs when the warhead is triggered. Thanks to which we are able to conduct effective fire not only at large air targets - at helicopters, attack planes aviation etc., but also to hit small targets - for example, unmanned aerial vehicles. So Kornet-EM is a modern multi-purpose complex, which, in addition to its main task - the defeat of heavily armored vehicles - can also perform air defense functions.

- Didn’t you try to use “Cornet” as a torpedo weapon?

MA.: Well, about torpedo weapons - this is too much, but we are working successfully on surface targets. The firing range of a guided missile with a thermobaric warhead — up to 10 kilometers, respectively, the Cornet-EM complex, located on the coast, can easily hit any surface target within reach. The TNT equivalent of a warhead charge is 7 kilograms, and undermining such a charge can cause very serious damage.

- Already shot from the board?


SM: For surface targets only from the shore. The carrier, which is afloat, is swinging in waves, and the laser beam control system used in the complex implies the need to stabilize the laser beam. Such a stabilized control system for the Kornet family of missiles was implemented in the Berezhok combat module developed by KBP, designed to equip infantry fighting vehicles. The BMP with such a module, being afloat, successfully firing at any targets - both on surface and on the shore.


Cornet-E is unpretentious and works equally well in any, even in the most severe conditions.

- Did you have to shoot at the "Merkava" or "Leopards"?

MA.: Let's just say, apart from the information available on the Internet for everyone, we do not have reliable information on the use of our Merkav and Leopard complexes. However, during the demonstration in one of the Arab countries in the Middle East, the foreign customer offered us an interesting task - to fire on a set of foreign-made armor plates that are used in the manufacture of tank armor. As a result of the shooting, the set of plates was punched through, the blade of the bulldozer who had dragged these plates, who had rashly left behind the target, also suffered. In general, the meter struck the armor and the vehicle to boot.

- Did you know that they were shooting at the Merkava?

SM: No, we were not told whose armor. But from conversations with the foreign customer, it became clear that these armor plates are used by their “likely adversary” for the manufacture of tanks.

MA: There was also an interesting case, but already when shooting with our own Metis-М1 complex. The foreign customer proposed a French post-war tank as a target. He was placed on a hill with a slope of the tower in the direction of our position. As a result of a rocket hit, a cumulative jet pierced the turret, the breech of the cannon, and already through the chassis went outside. The head of the polygon arrived and began to look for a point of impact. I did not believe that pierced through. Then our operator asked the head of the landfill to look into the hole in the tower, and from the opposite side - through the hole in the chassis he shone a flashlight. Considering that the inspection of the target was carried out at dusk, the beam of light that passed through the tank right through - right into the eye of the head of the test site - turned out to be very convincing evidence. All doubts were removed.

- What foreign anti-tank complex in combat properties can be compared with the "Cornet"?

SM: None. There is no analogue for Kornet-EM - it surpasses all modern foreign ATGMs in the aggregate of qualities.

- And how long does this excellence last?

SM: The Kornet-E complex of KBP has been serially producing and exporting 90's from the end. At present, deliveries of the Kornet-EM have begun - modernized, with increased range and armor penetration. So much time and there is our superiority.

- And Kornet-EM has a development perspective, or is it the final link, can't it be better?

MA: There is no final link, there is always competition. Tanks are developing - our goals, and we are developing.

- But tank builders say that the Armata is the limit of tank perfection ...

SM: As we have said, it is incorrect to discuss modern and promising Russian-made equipment, and even more so the possibility of its defeat. But a little excursion into history. For example, take the two early designs of the Tula KBP - ATGM "Fagot" and "Metis." The armor penetration of these missiles was at the level of 400 – 500 millimeters, and this was quite enough to fight the main battle tanks of that time. Then the tank builders increased the armor thickness of the tanks, well, and the ATGM developers modernized the rocket - they increased the caliber, thereby increasing the armor penetration. When the tanks were equipped with dynamic defense, the ATGM missiles began to be equipped with tandem combat units: the leading charge of the warhead removes dynamic protection, and the main charge of the warhead already penetrates, in essence, “bare” armor. Then, to protect the tanks from the ATGM systems, they developed optical jamming systems, in response, the ATGM developers began to increase the noise immunity of their systems. KBP, for example, developed a robust control system implemented in the Cornet-E complex. Current trends in the protection of tanks follow the path of installation of active protection systems, in response, the Kornet-EM provides for a tandem shooting regime - two missiles at the same target in one laser beam. The missiles are launched with a difference of less than a second, so that even in the case of “removal” by the active defense system of the first rocket, the second is guaranteed to hit the target. So the competition goes constantly.

- And tankers always play white?

MA: Of course, they are the same for us. A ATGM is a defensive weapon! Recently, in the light of numerous local conflicts, the KBP has positioned its anti-tank systems as a defensive assault weapon. Because foreign anti-tank complexes, the same American TOW, are not particularly fussy about yourself - it is overall and difficult to carry, you need a whole calculation. And "Kornet-E" is positioned as a portable complex. On any vehicle - a car, motorcycle, even on pack animals, it is easily delivered to the contact line, and only then the operator and the loader can easily transfer it to several hundred meters in any direction.

- On the contact line - is it like the calculation of the legendary 45-millimeter cannon called “Farewell, Motherland!”?

MA: Not exactly. During the years of the Great Patriotic War, the forty-fighters on the front line found themselves in the zone of effective enemy fire - and in response, tanks fired at the position of the cannon with direct fire. In the case of the Kornet-EM, the maximum range of anti-tank missiles is 8 kilometers, which far exceeds the effective response fire from tanks.

- How do you find tanks at such a distance?


9M133-1 rocket. Firing range - 100 – 5500 m. Tandem-cumulative warhead, armor penetration to 1100 mm for dynamic protection.

SM: In all modern complexes there are various means of detection - thermal and television cameras, scopes. In addition, you can receive and external target designation, including from UAVs. So there are no problems with the detection of the tank. The search and discovery process is basically the same - the tank is trying to detect the ATGM calculation, and the ATGM calculation is the tank, but there is a big difference in size: the tank is 2 meters high and 6 meters long is a big machine, and the calculation of ATGW, yes still nestled in the grass is not an easy target to detect. For targets located at long ranges, it is problematic for a tank to hit from the first shot. While the ATGM is a sniper weapon. Even at maximum range, we may well get into the window or into the embrasure of the bunker. In other words, a sniper or machine gun crew is destroyed at a distance greater than the range of their return fire. That's how much our ATGMs are also assault weapons.

- To hit from the ATGM at a distance of 8 kilometers of a sniper and a machine-gun crew ... Such shooting was carried out, is it not a theory?

SM: Repeatedly. For example, recently, for a delegation of a foreign customer, we demonstrated shooting at tanks and at a target of the “building” type, which is a two-story building made of reinforced concrete blocks. From the very first time they hit the window opening exactly - the rocket flew inside and exploded. If without details, the reinforced concrete structure developed like a house of cards and turned into a pile of stones, which caused indescribable delight among representatives of a foreign customer.

- Who is the author of the concept of universality of our modern anti-tank weapons?

MA: Of course, Arkady G. Shipunov, all the ideas implemented in our complexes were offered to them. The universality of the use of the complex for various purposes is ensured by the presence of two missiles in the ATGM - with a tandem-shaped cumulative warhead and with a thermobaric warhead. The presence of these two types of missiles allows you to hit almost all the targets that may appear on the battlefield. Cumulative - for hitting heavily armored targets, thermobaric - for cars, buildings, bunkers, manpower, and in the case of "Cornet-EM" - also various air targets.

S.M .: From the moment our first anti-tank missile system Fagot was created, nothing has changed conceptually. The rocket has a radiation source. The launcher receives the radiation, determines the position of the rocket in space, and forms commands to guide the rocket at the target. Guidance is carried out in semi-automatic mode, that is, the operator accompanies only the target, and the rocket is displayed on the line of sight by the control system. In the case of “Kornet”, the guidance system “turned” the other way round: the radiation source was placed on the starting one, and the receiver and control equipment, which determines the position in space, were installed in the rocket - that is, the rocket itself determines its position relative to the center of the laser beam and forms commands itself necessary to hit the target. Well, the function of the operator is the same - with the help of pointing drives to keep the aiming mark on the target.

MA: The next step is Cornet-EM. The automatic control of the target was introduced into the composition of its control system, with the help of which the tracking of targets and the targeting of missiles at them can be performed automatically - without operator participation, which made it possible to eliminate the influence of the human factor on the shooting results.

S.M .: With semi-automatic aiming, the operator’s function is to find a target through the scope, combine the crosshair and press the start - and that’s it, the rocket has gone ... It remains only to rotate the targeting actuators of the launcher until the rocket hits . In “Kornet-EM”, the operator sees the target on the monitor, throws a brand of automatic tracking on it, presses the “Start” button. There is a launch of the rocket and it is no longer involved in the guidance process - the control system itself will ensure that the rocket hits the target, including moving at high speed and maneuvering. The operator at this time may be engaged in the search for another goal.

- If the "Cornet" is so good, why are they still buying Metis?

MA: Each of our complex has its own unique features and advantages. For example, in the missiles of the Metis family, compared with other complexes, the onboard control equipment, which consists only of the steering gear, is significantly simplified - the control signal on the wire line of communication comes directly from the launcher. At the same time, Metis is much cheaper than analogs, simpler and more reliable. Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Olegovich Rogozin could personally see for himself the high combat effectiveness of this complex. During his visit to 29 in April, 2013 of the year he took a course on a computer simulator for 15 minutes, and then in actual conditions of the range from the first shot hit from Metis-М1 to the target at a distance of 2 km.

- Did you get yourself or helped the boss? ..

MA: Of course, myself. And how can you help there: two handwheel drive drives and your own eye ... And this suggests that MTRTIS Metis-М1 is very easy to handle, which is especially appealing to many foreign customers. Indeed, in most armies, ordinary soldiers who have no higher education serve, so our foreign partners in military-technical cooperation always ask for something like a Kalashnikov machine gun - easy to use, but reliable and highly efficient weapons - so that checks and settings are smaller.

We have accumulated a large amount of statistics, confirming that both Metis-М1 and Cornet-E work equally well in any, even under the most severe conditions. Happened, you come to foreign customers, they lead you to the warehouse, where the launchers are piled up like firewood, but you start to check - everyone works, not a single failure! By the way, the rockets of our modern complexes do not require any checks during storage. Sometimes we jokingly tell our foreign customers: “The only test you have to do is open the drawer and see if there is a rocket ...”

- A automatic reloading "Cornet-EM" is not supposed to?

S.M .: By automatic reloading it is meant that everything is done without human intervention: I pressed the button and everything was charged by itself. In the Cornet-EM complex, the reloading is still semi-automatic: empty containers are fired, the launch is transferred to the loading position, then the operator uses a lever to send the missile from the ammunition to the launcher guide. All launcher to shoot ready. In principle, eight missiles mounted on guides and ready for launch are enough to cause significant damage to the enemy and thereby reduce his aggressive ardor.

- And who determined how much ammunition is enough?

MA: At one time, combat models were developed, in which it was assumed that when the enemy inflicted more than 30% damage, the combat mission was considered accomplished - the enemy was no longer able to attack. For example, when attacking a group of six tanks of one Kornet-EM complex with a full load of ammunition is enough to inflict much more damage to the enemy than 30%.

- This is if the enemy will not resist ...

MA: “Cornet-EM” shoots at 8 kilometers, and a tank at 2,5 – 3 kilometers. Before the tanks reach the line, which allows to conduct aimed fire at the combat vehicles of our complex, half of the tanks will definitely be destroyed. The enemy has no chance, because the technical rate of fire at our ATGM - 2,5 shot per minute, while the complex can fire at two targets at once with four missiles - that is, a tandem for each of the targets. In short: as long as there is no return fire, we can fire at any visible targets, and nothing will prevent us from destroying them one by one.

- And what is the wearable version of the "Cornet"?

MA: The launcher weighs 26 kilograms, the rocket - 30 kilograms. One person carries a launcher, another - a rocket. If you want to have three or four rockets on hand in combat, take as many people or, say, a beast of burden. For example, in the mountains without a "donkey fighting" just can not do. In general, if the ammunition assembly is at hand, one operator is enough for shooting: he loaded a rocket, found a target, made a launch, achieved a hit - charge the next one. The remaining members of the calculation are used only for the ammunition tray and loading assistance.

- How many countries are in service with the Kornet ATGM and what revision is required for export options?

MA: Currently, more than a dozen countries of the world already have in service the Kornet-E ATGM, which has proven itself well in service in various latitudes and climatic zones. The main requirement of the foreign customer, which differs from the requirements of the Russian army, is the temperature range of operation. Everything that is exported, and basically these are countries located to the south of Russia, should work reliably in a warmer and more humid climate. And so, no special modifications are required. As an additional option, the foreign customer often asks to place our complex on our vehicles, which we successfully implemented - we have a positive experience of installing Kornet-E ATGM systems on light Hummer carriers and on others.

- As you know, the most important thing in the complex is a rocket. What is she like?

SM: The design of our rocket is as simple and reliable as that of the Tula samovar: the engine, the warhead and the control equipment — as you can see, nothing superfluous. The remote launcher is no different: a sight, a tripod and a swivel with pointing drives. This is about the "Cornet". With Metis even easier. The concept is the same: the engine, the warhead, and the onboard control equipment is only the steering gear. And in general, the Metis-M1 complex is very compact and light, a complex with three rockets can be carried by two people.

- How much time did it take to create, say, “Cornet-EM”?

MA: The process of creating any system from idea to adoption entails certain stages. Based on the technical assignment (TZ), calculations are made and working design documentation (RCD) is developed. Then, according to RKD, prototypes are made and their preliminary (previously called factory) tests are carried out - to confirm that the specified requirements have been achieved by applying selected technical solutions. If everything is successful, there comes the turn of state tests, which are already conducted by a commission of the Ministry of Defense. During the tests, which is quite natural, some flaws, inconsistencies are found, operational revision of the design documentation and the samples themselves is carried out. Then, the state testing commission makes recommendations on the adoption of the complex into service with the Russian army.

- And were there any cases when non-military gave technical assignments, and you yourself offered them something new?


Self-propelled version of the Kornet-EM ATGM on the Tiger chassis. Photo courtesy of Tula KBP

MA: The main directions for the development of military equipment, of course, are determined by the Ministry of Defense, which is a consumer for us, defense companies, and it also defines the basic requirements for armaments. However, in 90-x there was a period when, due to a lack of funding, most of the defense-industrial complex enterprises did not have government orders and there were practically no R & D commissioned by the Ministry of Defense. Businesses had to spin; someone leased space, others broke up into small firms. It was then that Arkady G. to ensure the survival of the enterprise and preserve the scientific school and decided to work for export. And our specialists, on the basis of the analysis of world trends in the development of weapons and military equipment themselves, but, naturally, not without the participation of the military, began to formulate tactical and technical requirements for a new set of weapons, which should surpass foreign analogues and be in demand on the world market.

- And so appeared "Cornet-E"?

MA: It is all simple in words. As you know, back in the 90s, the Tula KBP developed for the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation Kornet anti-tank systems based on combat vehicles. And already on this basis, but taking into account the requirements of foreign customers, an export version of the Kornet-E ATGM was created - with a remote launcher, a turret on four guides and the possibility of placement on light carriers. This complex really came into being at the initiative of the enterprise. But, thank God, those times are gone. Today, the state defense order is well funded, and the KBP performs a significant amount of development work on the tactical and technical tasks of our law enforcement agencies.

- Why did you choose the name “Cornet”, but, for example, not “Ensign”?

MA: There are many versions and legends on this score, but this is not at all about that cornet, which you can think about. This is not a military rank, but the name of a wind musical instrument - please do not confuse it with the clarinet. As far as we know, this name was invented by Arkadiy G. Shipunov. According to Soviet rules, each OCD had its own code, which was issued by the Ministry of Defense. For example, the well-known flower series for artillery systems: “Acacia”, “Hyacinth”, “Tulip”, “Peony”, etc. For the ATGM, perhaps because of the external similarity of containers of rockets with wind instruments, the military chose the musical names: “Bassoon”, “Oboe” ... It was on the initiative of academician Shipunov that another “Cornet” was added to this “brass band” . Although many support the legend associated with the military rank, it is easier to explain to foreign customers.

- "Cornet" has a clear relationship to military affairs. But why Metis?

SM: Unfortunately, most of the witnesses of that old story are no longer with us, so few details have been preserved. One of the explanations: because the Metis ATGM is a hybrid — it seems to be controlled weaponry, but the rocket is so simple that the complex is inherently close to a grenade launcher. The rocket consists of a warhead, an engine and a steering gear - with the exception of the steering gear, the same component parts of the grenade launcher. Here you have the explanation of the name "Metis." It should be noted that the complex is very compact and lightweight: the weight of the 9,5 launcher kilogram, and the weight of the rocket itself - 13,8 kilogram. Therefore, "Metis" can be delivered to any point where a person will pass, even if you have to overcome water obstacles. All components of the complex - and the missiles, and the launcher, and the thermal imager - have positive buoyancy, so that it is quite problematic to drown with the loads of the Metis-М1 ATGM behind its back.

- Did your complexes fall into the hands of competitors, is there such information?

MA.: Again, we don’t have official information, but on the Internet you can’t see anything ...

SM: I will not say about competitors. But the foreign military, who had the opportunity to use both our complexes and foreign-made complexes, when meeting at international exhibitions usually speak about the combat effectiveness of our ATGMs enthusiastically. More than once I had to hear: “Your equipment is for real war, and the western one is for parades.” By the way, many representatives of foreign armies lament that, because of the imposed sanctions, it is precisely our complexes that cannot be acquired, although there is a great desire and considerable financial resources. It should be noted here that the Internet makes a good advertisement: there are many videos on the Web that demonstrate the effectiveness of our complexes, both modern and developed in Soviet times.

“If the Cornet is so simple, why can't the Americans do the same ATGM?”

S.M .: I suppose, obviously not for financial reasons - the military budget of the Americans is big, there is a lot of money to be mastered ... But the simplicity of the “Cornet” is due to the large amount of know-how that can not be repeated in the West.

MA.: I don’t know about Americans, but there is information that foreign customers, who at one time bought Metis from us, still conduct development work on the development of their analogues of our complexes. On a business trip, the representatives of the host country heard the following question: “We do not understand how your rocket flies to such a range with a weight of just 13 kilograms? We have a lighter 20 kilograms does not work ... "

- prompted?

MA.: I replied to them: “This is our know-how!” But seriously, when developing any system, a competent developer lays in her modernization potential and reserve. But not excessive! And often modernization comes at the expense of sampling this very stock. Example. In the 1992 year, we put into service the Metis, whose missiles flew 1,5 kilometers. Later, due to the available reserves and the use of know-how, the range was increased to 2 kilometers. Now we are working on a variant to further increase the range of the rocket, new technologies, new materials are emerging, and we are actively introducing them into our developments. For example, before the control equipment was developed on discrete elements - transistors, capacitors, resistors - and, naturally, it took up a lot of space in the rocket, now everything comes down to integrated circuits or is implemented on microprocessors. As a result, the rocket frees up space, which can be used to increase the fuel charge or charge of the warhead and increase, respectively, the range or power.

SM: As a confirming example, you can refer to the Kornet-EM. With dimensions identical to the missiles of this complex, and a slight increase in mass, a doubled flight range was achieved and armor penetration was significantly increased.

- Tula instrument design bureau - is it production or is it a science?

SM: Currently, KBP is also a metis - a unique enterprise in which both production and science are combined. In Soviet times, there was a fairly clear division of labor between organizations: there were research institutes (SRI), there were design offices (KB), there were production plants. Scientific research institutes basically carried out research and search work. In the design bureau, the emphasis was on experimental design work, the design bureau also developed and manufactured prototypes of products, carried out their tests. Further, usually at the stage of state tests, the Ministry of Defense determined which plant would develop and produce this product in series. In 90, the system collapsed, and Arkady G. Shipunov decided to turn the KBP into a full-cycle enterprise, starting from research, development, testing, and ending with mass production. We started with small arms, which helped the company survive at that time. Today, on our production base, weapons and military equipment are manufactured for practically all types and types of troops - small arms and grenade launchers, anti-tank and multi-purpose missile systems, combat modules for infantry fighting vehicles, BMD and air defense systems.

- In other words, started with the simplest?

SM: I would not say that the development and production of small arms is the simplest. For many decades of competition between developers to come up with something new in the same gun is quite difficult. However, for example, Vasily Petrovich Gryazev succeeded. Under his command, the designers developed the GSH-18 pistol, the lightest in its class, always ready for firing, while the standard grip holds the holder on 18 cartridges instead of 9.

- The GSH-18 is somewhat similar to the Glock, except for a little, in my opinion, inferior in elegance.

MA: Foreigners love and know how to do beautiful things, but sometimes elegance comes at the expense of functionality. A weapon is not a TV, it is not a car, a weapon is what saves your life. Therefore, the main thing in weapons is functionality. You should be able to use it suddenly and in any situation. Here, for example, already discussed MTC-NXNX ATGM, After overcoming the water barrier, the calculation of the complex is ready to fire in 1 seconds. Reloading - 20 seconds, and the rate of fire when shooting at a maximum range - three to four shots per minute. Not a single foreign “elegant” complex can provide such combat capability.

- Weapon designers are superstitious people?

MA: Of course. Every profession has its own rituals and signs that are strictly followed. Recall, at least, a ritual astronauts viewing of the legendary “White Sun of the Desert” before the start. We also have our own "conventions". For example, a rocket for testing should be brought only as it flies - in no case can not be carried tail forward. It is necessary to shoot rockets only in ascending numbers. Be sure to stroke the rocket before firing. However, these, at first glance, "strange rituals" often have a purely physical explanation: for example, when you run your hand over a container, you remove static electricity.

- And after the shooting what ritual?

SM: Thank you all ...

- A ritual prearchan?

MA: Required. Completion of important tests, especially state ones, the commission usually marks in a restaurant. But this is a completely different story, not about the design work days.
Author:
Originator:
http://nvo.ng.ru/armament/2016-03-18/10_kornet.html
209 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must sign in.
  1. Aaron Zawi
    Aaron Zawi 20 March 2016 06: 43
    +24
    Terrible weapon. There is no decrease, no increase. Its presence in the hands of armies and organizations hostile to Israel gives us a lot of headache.
    1. aleco
      aleco 20 March 2016 08: 54
      +8
      Russia does not and will not supply weapons to terrorists. Nevertheless, I understand your concern.
      1. Lt. Air Force stock
        Lt. Air Force stock 20 March 2016 10: 38
        0
        I wonder why our gunsmiths do not construct ATGM with a strike nucleus, but only a direct hit with a tandem cumulative warhead?
        1. Vadim237
          Vadim237 20 March 2016 11: 25
          +1
          Probably because of the high cost of such a rocket.
        2. Lopatov
          Lopatov 20 March 2016 11: 34
          +4
          Quote: Lt. air force reserve
          why our gunsmiths do not design ATGM with a shock core

          Hitting a target from above on a span?

          Too big alterations, this requires, in fact, a new complex. "Metis", "Bassoon", "Cornet" - all rotate in flight.
          1. Dembel77
            Dembel77 20 March 2016 12: 31
            +2
            SM: The design of our rocket is as simple and reliable as that of the Tula samovar: the engine, warhead and control equipment - as you can see, there is nothing superfluous.
            Really! Simple - like all ingenious! And what is most interesting - no one from abroad can repeat this miracle in metal. But surely they have all the drawings - but they cannot do this. All the same, our missiles are the best!
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 20 March 2016 12: 48
              0
              Quote: Dembel 77
              no one from abroad can repeat this miracle in metal.

              In what sense?
              Complexes with such a management system abroad exist. And often even more perfect.

              Armor penetration? Here, yes. But abroad they took a different path, promoting the defeat of armored vehicles from above. Or on the fly, or from the "slide"

              "Cornet" is not repeated not because they cannot, but because it is not necessary. For example, the Spaniards from the development of their counterpart, the Toledo ATGM. refused in favor of purchasing the third generation "Spike".
              1. Aries
                Aries 20 March 2016 19: 11
                +2
                Or maybe because they refused from Toledo because they could not do it?
                1. Lopatov
                  Lopatov 20 March 2016 19: 42
                  +1
                  The Chinese, on the other hand, made the HJ-9, almost a complete analogue of the Cornet, and the Spaniards are clearly not dumber.
                  1. Aries
                    Aries 20 March 2016 20: 50
                    +2
                    Hj-9 is not a copy of Cornet, but TOU. At least look at the appearance of rockets. The rocket is 30% heavier. In addition, the laser beam is not used as a basis for tele-orientation of the rocket, only as a transmitter ... these are completely different control systems ...
                    1. Lopatov
                      Lopatov 20 March 2016 22: 21
                      -1
                      Quote: Aries
                      Hj-9 is not a copy of Cornet, but TOU. At least look at the appearance of rockets.

                      Compare in appearance? This is not serious. Moreover, the Chinese. The same HJ-73 is a molded "Baby", but starting with the HJ-73B version this is not the first, but the second generation complex.

                      Quote: Aries
                      In addition, the laser beam is not used as a basis for tele-orientation of the rocket, only as a transmitter ... these are completely different control systems ...

                      Confused by the TV goniometer? This is for other missiles with a radio command control system.
                      By the way, on "Cornet" the laser beam is also used "as a transmitter"
                      1. Aries
                        Aries 20 March 2016 22: 51
                        +3
                        In the cornet, the beam creates a field in which the rocket itself is oriented, the launcher as a lantern shines. And in Chinese, the beam transmits commands, all the same, that by radio or wire ... so they are far from Cornet ... And as for the appearance of the missiles - there is nothing superfluous or done by thoughtlessness in it ... everything is subordinated to one task - bring as much warhead as possible as far as possible ...
                2. padded jacket
                  padded jacket 20 March 2016 20: 03
                  +1
                  Quote: Aries
                  Or maybe because they refused from Toledo because they could not do it?

                  And did Spain actually have at least some independent experience in the production and design of anti-tank systems? Probably not.
            2. andrewkor
              andrewkor 20 March 2016 18: 47
              +1
              The shock core is assembled with cassette warheads of the RZSO from "Basalt!
        3. Kars
          Kars 20 March 2016 14: 09
          +9
          They say this is the T-90 that received a TOU hit in Syria.
          1. Professor
            Professor 20 March 2016 14: 11
            -20%
            Quote: Kars
            They say this is the T-90 that received a TOU hit in Syria.

            They lie. I couldn’t get into the tank. Everyone knows that the uncomplicated Curtain is a panacea for TOU. laughing
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 20 March 2016 17: 11
              -2
              They just launched the rocket at close range - the curtain did not have time to react.
          2. Vadim237
            Vadim237 20 March 2016 17: 00
            +1
            Are there any other photos of this tank?
          3. The comment was deleted.
        4. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 20 March 2016 14: 21
          +2
          Quote: Lt. air force reserve
          I wonder why our gunsmiths do not construct ATGM with a strike nucleus, but only a direct hit with a tandem cumulative warhead?

          Yes, the fact is that Russian anti-tank missiles are mostly "direct attack" (like: head-on!); And the cumulative warhead has greater armor penetration than the "nuclear strike" ... "Nuclear strike" warheads perform well when the defeat of armored targets in the side, stern and, especially, in the "roof"!
        5. tol100v
          tol100v 20 March 2016 16: 55
          +1
          Quote: Lt. air force reserve
          but only a direct hit with a tandem cumulative warhead?

          Any beast needs to be beaten in the eye!
      2. padded jacket
        padded jacket 20 March 2016 12: 09
        +7
        Quote: aleco
        Russia does not and will not supply weapons to terrorists.

        It is absolutely impossible to supply weapons to terrorists in any case - they must be supplied to fighters against terrorists, in particular to the valiant Hezbollah.
  2. ism_ek
    ism_ek 20 March 2016 06: 44
    +5
    Kornet-EM has no analogue - in terms of the totality of qualities, it surpasses all modern foreign ATGMs.
    But what about the third generation ATGM? Shooting from a Cornet at a moving target is extremely difficult due to problems with target designation
    “Cornet-EM” shoots at 8 kilometers, and the tank - at 2,5-3 kilometers.
    Tanks have long been able not only to shoot shells. Cornet made on the basis of ammunition from a tank gun.
    1. Former battalion commander
      Former battalion commander 20 March 2016 21: 24
      0
      Almost all tanks of probable opponents MAY NOT fire missiles. They have small-caliber guns (120) and even rifled ones, and this creates problems in the manufacture of ammunition such as rockets.
      1. Professor
        Professor 20 March 2016 21: 34
        0
        Quote: Former Combat
        Almost all tanks of probable opponents MAY NOT fire missiles. They have small-caliber guns (120) and even rifled ones, and this creates problems in the manufacture of ammunition such as rockets.

        Former battalion commander?
        1. Former battalion commander
          Former battalion commander 20 March 2016 22: 13
          0
          Well, I admit it means they can already, they learned how to pack a rocket in a container. But, something tells me that no one can shoot such missiles at the Cornet. There is some kind of GOS there and how it will be directed to the Cornet by God alone is not known.
          1. Professor
            Professor 20 March 2016 22: 23
            +1
            Quote: Former battalion commander
            There is some kind of GOS there and how it will be directed to the Cornet by God alone is not known.

            Theoretically, a missile of a tank can hit the ATGM calculation, in practice - the tank has no chance.
            1. Lopatov
              Lopatov 20 March 2016 23: 07
              +1
              Quote: Professor
              Theoretically, a missile of a tank can hit the ATGM calculation, in practice - the tank has no chance.

              On the contrary.
              The Kornet has no chance, because the main purpose of LAHAT is to defeat unobserved targets with external illumination.

              That is, the tank still does not see the calculation, but at the same time it can row if the target is illuminated by the same drone.

              Our analogue of such a system is not tank guided projectiles, but the Kitolov UAS used from the Vena ACS. There, too, external illumination, but it is possible to use a self-propelled laser rangefinder-designator.
              1. Aries
                Aries 20 March 2016 23: 33
                0
                It would be nice to get the same reflection area from the ATGM ... as from a tank from the top view ...
              2. Former battalion commander
                Former battalion commander 21 March 2016 00: 02
                +1
                Lopatov
                On the contrary.
                That is, the tank still does not see the calculation, but at the same time it can row if the target is illuminated by the same drone.


                And how do you imagine that a drone will be able to see two masked camouflaged soldiers waiting for the tanks in an ambush for 8 km from the tanks? Yes, and determine that this ATGM? Yes, and transmit information to the tanks? Yes, and these tanks should BELIEVE this information? Yes, and start shooting in an unknown direction? Do not fantasize. Reality is much simpler. Until the first shot from Cornet, NO ONE WILL SEE ANYTHING.
              3. Professor
                Professor 21 March 2016 08: 37
                +1
                Quote: Spade
                On the contrary.
                The Kornet has no chance, because the main purpose of LAHAT is to defeat unobserved targets with external illumination.

                In theory, everything works well, in practice, the tank has no chance to hit the ATGM calculation, especially since their range of damage is different.
          2. padded jacket
            padded jacket 20 March 2016 22: 40
            0
            Quote: Former battalion commander
            Well, I admit it means they can already, they learned how to pack a rocket in a container. But, something tells me that no one can shoot such missiles at the Cornet

            In fact, the Israeli rocket for arming LAHAT tanks is rather poor, and for example, India refused to purchase it:
            India abandoned Israeli LAHAT tank missiles
            The Indian army refused to equip the nationally developed Arjun tanks of the new Mk-2 modification with Israeli LAHAT guided missiles with a laser guidance system fired from a cannon.
            It is reported that the Israeli Aerospace Industries development missile has an unreliable guidance system and is not capable of hitting targets at a distance of less than 1200 m (maximum range 6000 m), as a result of which the Indian army no longer considers the issue of their purchase.
            http://www.militaryparitet.com/perevodnie/data/ic_perevodnie/5869/
  3. igorka357
    igorka357 20 March 2016 06: 45
    -13%
    Dear developers, it’s enough to feed the defense industry with Soviet developments and their deepest upgrades! How much can you give, give absolutely new types of weapons! Or is there no brain left?
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 20 March 2016 07: 02
      +14
      Quote: igorka357
      Dear developers, enough to feed the defense industry Soviet developments, and their deepest upgrades

      That's right, T 90 in junk, Su 35, SU 34, SU 30, Mig 35, SU 25 also in junk. And TU 160 is also a Soviet development; our army doesn’t need it. And in general, enough to feed the army.
      These are the people in our country there are screamers not from a great mind fool
      1. Amurets
        Amurets 20 March 2016 07: 25
        +16
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Quote: igorka357
        Dear developers, enough to feed the defense industry Soviet developments, and their deepest upgrades

        That's right, T 90 in junk, Su 35, SU 34, SU 30, Mig 35, SU 25 also in junk. And TU 160 is also a Soviet development; our army doesn’t need it. And in general, enough to feed the army.
        These are the people in our country there are screamers not from a great mind fool

        I fully support! Nothing new can be created from scratch. And A. Shipunov has eternal memory! For the fact that he managed to preserve such an organization for the country as the Tula KBP.
        1. igorka357
          igorka357 20 March 2016 13: 50
          -11%
          So a lot of things have been done, but there are no new developments! All modernization, and to what extent will we upgrade? I doubt that you will answer!
          1. tol100v
            tol100v 20 March 2016 17: 09
            -1
            Quote: igorka357
            But there are no new developments!

            They are, BUT not about your honor, which you do not have!
            1. igorka357
              igorka357 20 March 2016 21: 15
              -1
              About how, but what about that in general, if only to snap oneself? But essentially there is something to say?
              1. Cat man null
                Cat man null 20 March 2016 21: 24
                +2
                Quote: igorka357
                So a lot of things have been done, but there are no new developments! All modernization, and to what extent will we upgrade? I doubt that you will answer!

                And for what, in general, are you interested in?

                Quote: igorka357
                About how, but what about that in general, if only to snap oneself? But essentially there is something to say?

                Well, who will tell you on the site in the internet .. about "new developments" wink

                Either an eccentric, or a suicide .. fool

                Something like this..
        2. tol100v
          tol100v 20 March 2016 17: 07
          +4
          Quote: Amurets
          And A.G. Shipunov’s eternal memory

          Not only to him, but to his friend and ally Gryazev Vasily Petrovich!
      2. Lopatov
        Lopatov 20 March 2016 11: 39
        -4
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        These are the people in our country there are screamers not from a great mind

        ?
        The current Kornet is indeed built around a rather successful Soviet missile second generation

        And I would not say that it meets modern requirements for anti-tank systems. And the fact that all these modern modernizations are successful.

        So the respected "Igorka357" is absolutely right
        1. Stiletto_711
          Stiletto_711 20 March 2016 17: 12
          +5
          Kindly, educate about the modern requirements for ATGM. Who formulated on the basis of what, were the research works, the analysis of statistics? In my opinion, the main requirement for an ATGM was and remains the ability to hit an enemy tank in any projection with a probability of at least 0,8 and ensure the survival of the complex's calculation. Some (but not all) believe that it is not bad at the same time to have a product cost less than that of the tank, which it amazes and the necessary calculation qualifications are lower than that of the graduate students of the Moscow State Technical University. Bauman. Methods for achieving these requirements vary. Someone switches to the 3rd generation of complexes with the principle of "fire and forget" and hitting the target in the upper hemisphere, and someone increases the range and power of warheads. The methods are different, and each has its own pros and cons. There is only one indisputable argument - burning tanks and demand on the world market.
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 20 March 2016 18: 28
            -1
            Quote: Stilett_71
            In my opinion, the main requirement for ATGMs was and remains the ability to hit an enemy tank in any projection with a probability of at least 0,8 and ensure the survival of the complex calculation.

            And do you think that "Cornet" in its current form provides this requirement?

            1. The likelihood of defeat. Does "Kornet" provide it in the conditions of the spread of KAZ and new complexes of optical-electronic suppression? No.
            2. Security for the calculation. Does the Kornet provide it when, thanks to the spread of UV plingators, the tank is able to receive the coordinates of the missile launch site in real time? No.
            1. Stiletto_711
              Stiletto_711 20 March 2016 18: 52
              +2
              1. It's too early to talk about the effectiveness of KAZ. There is still no experience of using anti-tank weapons under conditions of massive use. And the tactics of using ATGMs, taking into account the use of KAZ by the enemy, are being developed. As for the optical-electronic countermeasures, the Kornet's anti-jamming control system was created just for such work options.

              2. Let's say the tank (or rather its crew) is able to get the coordinates of the launch site, but will it be able to use them? This is doubtful. But the calculation after starting from a distance of 8 km, and even 5,5 km, will change its position and continue to work.
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 20 March 2016 19: 15
                -2
                Quote: Stilett_71
                There is no experience with the use of anti-tank weapons in a massive use.

                There is no experience of massive use of second-generation complexes either. Except perhaps the shooting of Iraqi tanks at positions with the installations of the TOU BMP "Bradley"


                Quote: Stilett_71
                As for the optical-electronic countermeasures, the Kornet's anti-jamming control system was created just for such work options.

                Are the cornet operators getting a new eye to see through the aerosol curtain?

                Quote: Stilett_71
                2. Let's say the tank (or rather its crew) is able to get the coordinates of the launch site, but will it be able to use them?

                Implement target designation. Of course. Let me remind you that the HE shell is not particularly limited in range.
            2. Aries
              Aries 20 March 2016 18: 59
              +3
              1. Look at the statistics and find out that tanks with a KAZ are not more than 5%, even in the richest countries. And in countries the latter, even the DZ, is not on all tanks. In addition, tandem shooting overcomes KAZ.
              2. Determine the coordinates of the rocket launch site, does not mean to hit the calculation. Imagine the situation, on the mountainside in the gorge there is an ATGM, and on the road, in the valley there is a column of tanks ... ATGM from a range of 8 km begins to shoot them ... yes even though the entire column will determine the launch site of the rocket ... no such tank weapons to get ATGM at such a range ...
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 20 March 2016 19: 34
                -2
                Quote: Aries
                Look at the statistics and find out that tanks with KAZ are no more than 5% even in the richest countries.

                AND? Can you give a 100% guarantee that this situation will continue?

                Quote: Aries
                In addition, tandem shooting overcomes KAZ.

                Oh ... Here I am about that. "Cornet" can do it? No.
                Development of "Commander" is thrown on the floor of the road. And the only option for "tandem" shooting is to put two launchers side by side and try to "synchronize" them with voice commands.


                Quote: Aries
                Imagine the situation, on the mountainside in the gorge there is an ATGM, and along the road, in the valley there is a column of tanks ... ATGM from a range of 8 km begins to shoot them ...

                The column shoots smoke and moves on under their cover.
                ATGM shoots or from HE shells of tanks (do not confuse them, they are not limited in range, they will not shoot at anti-tank systems with "crowbars". Soviet IS-2 with TP D-25T fired HE shells at 16 600 meters)
                Or from artillery (an Israeli 120-mm self-propelled mortar opens fire on the move for a new target 24 seconds after receiving the coordinates)
                1. Aries
                  Aries 20 March 2016 20: 39
                  +3
                  1. Can you give a 100% guarantee that the situation will change?
                  2. Cornet-EM shoots pandemics and no synchronization is needed, the Commander is not about that at all ... two missiles in a second in one beam ...
                  3. From a range of 8 km the tank will not hit the ATGM from the first time because it does not reach the direct wiring, and the ATGM will do it from the first shot ... if the convoy shoots smoke, then the tanks do not see the ATGM in the same way, but also see where to move ...
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 20 March 2016 22: 38
                    -1
                    Quote: Aries
                    Can you give a 100% guarantee that the situation will change?

                    Yes.

                    Quote: Aries
                    Cornet-EM shoots pandemics and no synchronization is needed, the Commander is not about that at all ... two missiles in a second in one beam ...

                    The "Cornet-EM" machine is absolutely useless. If its introduction into service in the RF Armed Forces is still pushed through, the anti-tank units equipped with it will not be able to fulfill their main task. So, a toy for steppes and deserts. Step - only in dry season.

                    Quote: Aries
                    From a range of 8 km, the tank can’t get through the ATGM from the first time because it does not reach direct wiring

                    Nonsense.

                    Quote: Aries
                    if the column shoots smoke, then the tanks just do not see the ATGM, but also do not see where to move ...

                    And why see the ATGM, if there is its coordinates?
                    At the expense of "not seeing where to go" - also nonsense.
                    1. Aries
                      Aries 20 March 2016 22: 53
                      +2
                      "Nonsense" is an excellent argument, and most importantly, such a technical one ...
                      1. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 20 March 2016 23: 22
                        -3
                        Quote: Aries
                        "Nonsense" is an excellent argument, and most importantly, such a technical one ...

                        Because this is nonsense. Even if the telescopic sight does not allow direct fire (and I personally do not know the capabilities of the FCS of the same "Abrams in this regard), then half-straight shooting is possible. When the elevation angle is taken from the shooting tables.

                        In general, look at your leisure on the Internet for the two-volume book of 1958 "Shooting from tanks and self-propelled guns from closed firing positions"
                      2. Aries
                        Aries 20 March 2016 23: 36
                        +2
                        You tell me more about the shooting tables, but at the same time, in your two-volume book, calculate the probability of hitting the hinged path and the consumption of ammunition using formulas ... especially if you can pull such a gun up to the zenith angle ...
    2. igorka357
      igorka357 20 March 2016 13: 45
      0
      You just distort, I didn’t say that you need to refuse! I said you give new developments, but they are, eh? And it’s not for you to judge my mind!
      1. Amurets
        Amurets 20 March 2016 16: 54
        +3
        Quote: igorka357
        You just distort, I didn’t say that you need to refuse! I said you give new developments, but they are, eh? And it’s not for you to judge my mind!

        You will find out what is Form-1? What happens for the disclosure of military and state secrets. And why did you decide that the latest, most experimental developments will be discussed on the Internet? Can you bring in your clever thoughts? What can be laid out.
    3. Yars
      Yars 20 March 2016 14: 00
      +1
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      Quote: igorka357
      Dear developers, enough to feed the defense industry Soviet developments, and their deepest upgrades

      That's right, T 90 in junk, Su 35, SU 34, SU 30, Mig 35, SU 25 also in junk. And TU 160 is also a Soviet development; our army doesn’t need it. And in general, enough to feed the army.
      These are the people in our country there are screamers not from a great mind fool

      there are quite a few such liberal here on the forum
      1. igorka357
        igorka357 20 March 2016 16: 13
        +1
        It's funny to call me a liberal smile it’s even funny for me laughing ! And take an interest in those whom you call a liberal .. well, at least a couple of my comments, look, comments ... There are not a few such upstarts on the forum, if only to support the moderator, look the rating will crawl!
        1. tol100v
          tol100v 20 March 2016 17: 17
          +2
          Quote: igorka357
          , you see the rating will creep!

          If you play in ratings, then you are in "DOM-1,2,3 ..." And a simple wish: never confuse your grievances with the topic of discussion!
          1. igorka357
            igorka357 20 March 2016 21: 23
            -1
            Would you understand the essence of the dialogue? And a simple wish, before you write something to a person, make sure that you are addressing it to him, otherwise it is not clear what kind of insults are in question!
  4. magician
    magician 20 March 2016 09: 14
    +3
    We are still in the defense industry, and not only, we use the development of 60-70 years. Just then there was neither materials nor the corresponding technologies. In your words, do you have to abandon the wheel, the internal combustion engine, etc.? Think for yourself.
    1. igorka357
      igorka357 20 March 2016 13: 53
      0
      There are so far no alternative designs, but say from the wheel, say, well ... the rockets used to be fiction too! Perhaps in the future the wheel will cease to exist as a means of transportation! 50 percent of traffic flows do not already move on wheels, it’s not clear why invented wings, and ships ... because there was a wheel wink !
  5. avt
    avt 20 March 2016 10: 18
    +6
    Quote: igorka357
    Dear developers, it’s enough to feed the defense industry with Soviet developments and their deepest upgrades! How much can you give, give absolutely new types of weapons! Or is there no brain left?

    Is it poor to roll a telegram to the White House in the USA so that they don't saw through the old "Abrams" in new modifications? wassat
    1. Yars
      Yars 20 March 2016 14: 02
      +2
      and "Stinger", for example, is also not a baby of the ovsky defense complex ... something the liberals of this forum do not remember about it.
      1. igorka357
        igorka357 20 March 2016 16: 16
        -3
        What does the ATGM and MANPADS have to do with, just to blurt out something!
        1. Amurets
          Amurets 20 March 2016 16: 47
          +2
          Quote: igorka357
          What does the ATGM and MANPADS have to do with, just to blurt out something!

          And despite the fact that if the novelty is more than 20%, this product will be suspected of whether the product will withstand the entire test cycle? And there are still many nuances for the introduction of new technology. Do you now have new fundamental solutions for creating the product? No, here you blurt out, without thinking, about creating weapons from scratch. Work on modern missiles has been going on since the time of Kongrev, Zasyadko, Konstantinov, that is, from the middle of the 52th century, by airplanes from the time of Daedalus and Ikar. I don’t remember other weapons .They lead their history from antiquity, constantly modifying, changing and improving. The American B-95 still poses no small threat to us, like our Tu-20 named after it. Even passenger cars quickly change their bodies, but not the filling, because the processing lines command parts have been working for 25-XNUMX years. And in ICE, command parts are the crankshaft, head, cylinder block and this is abroad. Everything else is being modernized, modified.
        2. tol100v
          tol100v 20 March 2016 17: 22
          -1
          Quote: igorka357
          What does the ATGM and MANPADS have to do with, just to blurt out something!

          I will not contact = YOU =. LEARN FIRST TO READ! And writing to you is contraindicated!
      2. Lopatov
        Lopatov 20 March 2016 18: 43
        0
        Quote: YARS
        and "Stinger", for example, is also not a baby of the ovsky defense complex ...

        You can talk about "Stinger", but let's take "TOU", it's closer to the topic.

        Originally developed complex, and standing in service now differ from each other, like heaven and earth.

        Modern "Tou" has two control systems, by wire and radio command.

        Defeat the target either "head-on" (900-1000 according to various sources behind dynamic protection), or from above on the flight, also behind dynamic protection.

        Normal thermal imager, target tracking machine, normal target designation system with rangefinder, satellite system for determining coordinates and directional angle of the installation axis (two ZhPS antennas are not just placed there)

        "Cornet" can boast of this? No.
  6. Yars
    Yars 20 March 2016 14: 04
    +2
    Quote: igorka357
    Dear developers, it’s enough to feed the defense industry with Soviet developments and their deepest upgrades! How much can you give, give absolutely new types of weapons! Or is there no brain left?

    Dear, military products, this is not for you to release a new mobile phone model every year !!!
    1. igorka357
      igorka357 20 March 2016 16: 17
      -1
      You are not talking to Soviet designers and engineers!
  7. Stiletto_711
    Stiletto_711 20 March 2016 16: 53
    +3
    Dear Igor 357, especially for you! Our new line of lightsabers with variable monochrome and automatic scanning of the side of the power to which the user belongs. For users of the bright side - a green sword, for the dark - red, for fans of European liberal values ​​- a blue one. At the request of the customer, it is equipped with a translator from the Wookiee language.

    PS And now seriously. If you don’t have enough brains to understand on your own, then I’ll explain that in a country where for 20 years everyone did not care about the defense industry and the state did not allocate funds for research and development, it is very difficult to expect breakthrough developments in the field of weapons. Nevertheless, enterprises that managed to emerge in the 90s and 2000s are able to successfully compete in the foreign market, to provide (mainly) the needs of our Defense Ministry and other law enforcement agencies, and sometimes, contrary to all, to create weapons models that are ahead of the global level. I advise you to use the brain (if any) before you press the keys and throw accusations.
    1. igorka357
      igorka357 20 March 2016 21: 14
      -3
      Well, in general, for the brainy and smart, I’ll explain that the main purpose of the statement or statement is not conveyed by postscript! And as for the swords, you certainly gave humor, it’s right to write out the prize at the right time!
      1. Stiletto_711
        Stiletto_711 20 March 2016 23: 41
        +1
        Judging by your manner of communication, I decided that about swords will be the main one for you, and everything else is in the postscript.
  8. tol100v
    tol100v 20 March 2016 16: 59
    +1
    Quote: igorka357
    ! Or what, no brains left?

    And you probably drank the last ?!
    1. igorka357
      igorka357 20 March 2016 21: 11
      0
      I haven’t been drinking alcohol for the past eleven years!
  • Aries
    Aries 20 March 2016 08: 00
    +7
    Quote: igorka357
    Dear developers, it’s enough to feed the defense industry with Soviet developments and their deepest upgrades! How much can you give, give absolutely new types of weapons! Or is there no brain left?

    Dear Automotive! Stop developing cars on 4 round wheels! Give absolutely the latest samples!
    1. igorka357
      igorka357 20 March 2016 13: 49
      -5
      It’s not respected, I hope they will appear in the future! And if all such downs like you were in the nineteenth century, you would live there now ... I’m sure in the last century, too, like you said there are balloons, why are there any more planes ... yes rockets, but don’t look into space we are flying! Therefore, before you could sail in the wake of such marshals as Romanov, you should think about it!
  • Aries
    Aries 20 March 2016 08: 06
    0
    Quote: ism_ek
    Kornet-EM has no analogue - in terms of the totality of qualities, it surpasses all modern foreign ATGMs.
    But what about the third generation ATGM? Shooting from a Cornet at a moving target is extremely difficult due to problems with target designation
    “Cornet-EM” shoots at 8 kilometers, and the tank - at 2,5-3 kilometers.
    Tanks have long been able not only to shoot shells. Cornet made on the basis of ammunition from a tank gun.

    If not difficult, describe the essence of the "target designation problem" ... and name the tanks that shoot at least 6 km away ...
    1. Stas157
      Stas157 20 March 2016 11: 18
      -1
      Quote: Aries
      If not difficult, describe the essence of the "problem with targeting"

      Lack of seeker, therefore
      Shooting from a Cornet at a moving target is extremely difficult

      And also Cornets cannot fly a hill and beat from above. The main advantage of Cornet is this range and price. Although the price is still high, although there is no expensive GSN. Our Israeli friends claimed that the price of their Spike was comparable to our Cornet.
      1. Professor
        Professor 20 March 2016 11: 34
        +2
        Quote: Stas157
        Our Israeli friends claimed that the price of their Spike was comparable to our Cornet.

        Spike is twice as expensive as Cornet, but it's the next generation rocket. Cornet needs to be compared for example with TOW 2 whose price is $ 52,000.
        http://www.army-technology.com/projects/tow/
        1. Aries
          Aries 20 March 2016 12: 15
          +1
          Do not confuse the cost of manufacturing and the price of export ... the price of military equipment for export is formed in much the same way as our oil price - it has nothing to do with the cost of production ...
        2. kapitan92
          kapitan92 20 March 2016 22: 55
          +6
          Quote: Professor
          Spike is twice as expensive as Cornet, but it's the next generation rocket. Cornet needs to be compared for example with TOW 2 whose price is $ 52,000.

          1. The Cornet

          Antitank missile system 9K135 or "Cornet".
          Disadvantages of the complex:
          The ATGM is guided to the target by a laser beam, which unmasks the installation position.
          The installation calculation consists of two people.

          Advantages:

          Relatively low the cost of the rocket and launcher is about 30 thousand US dollars.
          It is possible to adjust the flight on the march.
          Confident defeat of targets at ranges up to 5.5 kilometers.
          High armor penetration - up to 1200 millimeters of homogeneous armor, which allows you to hit any of the currently existing tanks.
          2. FGM-148 or Chevlin is the first serial American portable complex (ATGM) of the 3rd generation. It was adopted by the U.S. Army in 1996.
          The missiles of the FGM-148 complex are created on the principle of "shot and forgot." To this end, they are equipped with infrared homing heads.
          This complex has the following advantages:

          It is possible to direct the missile in bad weather conditions, high smoke and terrain at night. This is a huge advantage over similar 2-generation complexes, which are not equipped with a thermal sight.
          Missile guidance is performed without active target illumination, which does not unmask the launch site of the rocket and does not provoke the activation of a smoke screen on armored vehicles.
          As a rule, a rocket hits armored vehicles in the least protected upper part. Because of this, the residual cumulative jet has a high damaging power even after piercing armor.
          The missile is absolutely not sensitive to the existing active defense equipment that does not control the upper part of the armored vehicles.
          The rocket does not react to the means of opto-electronic suppression, since the guidance system does not perceive the modulated signal, since it is directed at the infrared source of the far side of the spectrum (engine, exhaust system).
          And disadvantages:

          ATGM can hit targets only in the line of sight. And this casts doubt on its combat capability over a distance of more than 1 kilometers.
          It is extremely irrational to use the complex for shooting at a distance of up to a kilometer of 0.5, because at such distances much cheaper and lighter hand-held grenade launchers have proven themselves well. However, with the amendment that hand grenade launchers can effectively destroy only targets with light armor.
          The shooter can not affect the flight of the rocket after launch. And when the target has a temperature slightly different from the temperature of the details of the relief, for example, in a desert area, the rocket may lose the target.
          High price. The cost of the launch device is approximately 125 thousand dollars, and missiles about 80 thousand dollars.
          Before launching the rocket, it is necessary to cool the homing head, which, together with the time it takes to capture the target, is about 1 minutes.
          1. kapitan92
            kapitan92 20 March 2016 22: 58
            +4
            3. Spike


            3rd generation anti-tank missile system "Spike" - development of the Israeli company "Rafael".

            Of the advantages of the complex should be noted:

            No need to cool the infrared homing head before starting.
            There are four modifications of the rocket with a different range.
            The ability to change the target after the launch of the rocket, taking into account the changing priorities in battle.
            The possibility of obtaining intelligence in real time and the possibility of identifying the target.
            According to manufacturers, an extremely high degree of accuracy of hitting - you can choose not only the goal, but also a specific point on it.
            The possibility of capturing a target after launching a rocket from a closed position.
            The ability to self-destruct rocket if necessary.
            Disadvantages:

            The high price of both the launcher and the rocket is about 250 thousand US dollars.
            Extremely complex production technology, which does not allow for mass production of systems.
            Complexity of complex management. Special operator training is required.
            Something like this! First of all, I was interested in the cost of the complexes, although it is not entirely correct to compare the 2nd and 3rd generation.
            1. Former battalion commander
              Former battalion commander 21 March 2016 00: 18
              0
              The GOS, taking into account the latest developments in anti-missile protection, is the WEAKEST PLACE of all "I forgot to shoot" systems. All these GOS are blinded by a laser beam. An example of the use of the President anti-missile system to protect helicopters from MANPADS. Similar complexes are also installed on tanks, which is GUARANTEED to prevent damage from such ammunition. All these Javelins and Tou can be scrapped after the massive equipping of tanks with the described protection systems. GOS - has outlived its own.
            2. Professor
              Professor 21 March 2016 08: 35
              +1
              Quote: kapitan92
              Extremely complex production technology, which does not allow for mass production of systems.

              No. Mass production has been around for a long time. Even in Europe.

              Quote: kapitan92
              Complexity of complex management. Special operator training is required.

              It took me about 10 minutes on the simulator. fellow

              Quote: kapitan92
              The high price of both the launcher and the rocket is about 250 thousand US dollars.

              Quote: kapitan92
              Something like this! First of all, I was interested in the cost of the complexes, although it is not entirely correct to compare the 2nd and 3rd generation.

              You're wrong. Here is an authoritative published report:
              "March 2009: The deal is announced. Peru will reportedly buy 244 of Russia's laser-guided AT-14 / 9M133 Kornet anti-tank missiles for $ 25 million. Another 244 of RAFAEL's dual-mode wire-guided or IIR (Imaging Infrared) fire -and-forget Spike missiles will bought for $ 48 million. "
              (translation: March 2009 of the year: A deal was announced. Peru announces the purchase in Russia of 244 AT-14 / Cornet 9М133 laser-guided 25 million dollars. Other 244 dual-mode cable-guided or infrared seeker-launched missile rake-forget Spike will be purchased for 48 million dollars).

              Since the same number of missiles was purchased, the number of launchers should be approximately the same (information about 24 launchers of Spikes passed), which makes the price ratio of 1 to 2.

              Javelin costs $ 78000 (2002), Cornet $ 40
      2. Aries
        Aries 20 March 2016 12: 13
        +2
        1. What are the advantages of the GOS?
        2. Why hit the top if everything breaks in a straight line?
        3. With the simultaneous purchase of Peru for its units of the same number of Cornets and Spikes ... the contract for immediately was 2 times more in price
        1. padded jacket
          padded jacket 20 March 2016 14: 00
          +5
          Quote: Aries
          and Spikes ... the contract for immediately was 2 times more for the price

          What was the cost of "poor" Poland to buy this misunderstanding called Spike.
          It is produced in Poland under a license at the state defense plant Mesko. In total, the contract provides for the production of 264 aiming and launching modules and 2 missiles with a dual-mode homing head. The contract was concluded in 675 and cost the Poles $ 2003 million .......... It is difficult to disagree with this, because for the indicated sum, instead of 397 complexes, you can purchase, for example, about 264 T-200 tanks (in prices for 90)
          http://btvt.narod.ru/4/spike.htm
        2. Dan4eG
          Dan4eG 20 March 2016 17: 35
          +3

          they all tell
      3. Lopatov
        Lopatov 20 March 2016 12: 16
        +7
        Quote: Stas157
        Lack of seeker, therefore
        Shooting from a Cornet at a moving target is extremely difficult

        Not a fact.

        Quote: Stas157
        The main advantage of Cornet is this range and price.

        Penetration and noise immunity.
      4. Former battalion commander
        Former battalion commander 20 March 2016 21: 51
        -1
        Lack of GOS,
        Shooting from a Cornet at a moving target is extremely difficult.
        And also Cornets cannot fly a hill and beat from above. The main advantage of Cornet is this range and price.

        I did not read more stupid criticism.
        1. The lack of GOS is precisely an ADVANTAGE! Modern missile defense systems EVERYTHING EASY TO Dazzle ALL POSSIBLE optical and radio seekers. See how helicopters fly in Syria, and by the way in Stingers the same GOS costs. And NOBODY IS AFRAID OF HER! Wake up and look around. Homing heads - SURVIVED OUR CENTURY!
        2. Cornet cannot fly in a slide! What is called "Fuck a priest accordion"? What does the system need to "fly in a slide" or burn tanks? And still "flying with a slide" is possible ONLY IN THE PRESENCE OF GOS. And see n1 GOS have already outlived their age, against them there is an UNKILLABLE CROWBAR in the form of a BLINDING LASER BEAM.
        Before criticizing it is necessary to turn on the brain, and not blurt out all the rubbish to ridicule the rest.
  • Aries
    Aries 20 March 2016 08: 10
    +3
    Quote: ism_ek
    Cornet made on the basis of ammunition from a tank gun.

    From the "ammunition from a tank gun" in "Kornet" only the idea of ​​guidance in the laser beam ... even the control system is different ... not to mention the rocket itself, which by definition cannot be the same as a tank shot ...
    1. ism_ek
      ism_ek 20 March 2016 08: 26
      +1
      Quote: Aries
      From the "ammunition from a tank gun" in "Kornet" only the idea of ​​guidance in the laser beam ... even the control system is different ... not to mention the rocket itself, which by definition cannot be the same as a tank shot ...

      Cannons in tanks have long been smooth-bore and can fire not only shells, but also missiles. "Cornet" is developed on the basis of the tank complex "Reflex"
      1. Aries
        Aries 20 March 2016 10: 36
        +2
        It depends on what is considered the basis .. the maybach is also made on the basis of a cart ... I repeat from Reflex Cornet has only an idea ...
    2. kapitan92
      kapitan92 20 March 2016 23: 17
      +4
      Quote: Aries
      From the "ammunition from a tank gun" in "Kornet" only the idea of ​​guidance in the laser beam ... even the control system is different ... not to mention the rocket itself, which by definition cannot be the same as a tank shot ...

      ".. The anti-tank missile system 9K135 or" Kornet "(according to the NATO classification AT-14 Spriggan), is the development of the Tula Instrument-Making Design Bureau. This is an ATGM of the 2nd generation. solutions to its layout. "...
      1. Aries
        Aries 20 March 2016 23: 43
        0
        Your information is not correct since the complex index. And the main layout decisions are that in both the reflex and the cornet there are steering gears, a warhead, a tail section and a laser receiver ... I repeat Maybach and a cart - and there are 4 wheels and a chassis there and there ... but the engines are different and management ...
        1. kapitan92
          kapitan92 20 March 2016 23: 48
          +5
          Quote: Aries
          Your information is not correct since the complex index.

          Missiles
          9M133 - Firing range - 100-5000 m. Tandem-cumulative warhead armor penetration up to 1000 mm per DZ.
          9M133F - Firing range - 100-5000 m. High-explosive warhead.
          9M133-1 - Firing range - 100–5500 m. Tandem-cumulative warhead armor penetration up to 1000–1200 mm per DZ.
          9M133F-1 - Firing range - 100—5500 m. High-explosive warhead
          9M133FM - High-explosive warhead
          9M133M-2 - firing range - 150-8000 m. Tandem-cumulative warhead armor penetration up to 1100-1300 mm per DZ.
          9M133FM-2 - Firing range - 150-8000 m. Thermobaric warhead for engaging infantry and lightly armored vehicles, similar in action to the RPM Bumblebee flamethrower, but 3-4 times more powerful (10 kg of TNT equivalent).
          9M133FM-3 - Firing range - 150-10000 m. High-explosive warhead - TNT equivalent of 7 kg. To destroy air targets at speeds up to 250 m / s (900 km / h) and a flight ceiling of 9 km. Blasting contact or non-contact when flying 3 meters from the target.
          1. Aries
            Aries 21 March 2016 00: 11
            +1
            As you gently walked around the index of the complex, though you forgot about another rocket ... and, due to your youth, I will give advice - you should not show your awareness on the Internet in such detail ...
            1. kapitan92
              kapitan92 21 March 2016 00: 21
              +4
              Quote: Aries
              due to your youth, I will give advice -

              laughing You, my dear, give advice to your wife!
              Quote: Aries
              How gently did you go around the index of the complex,

              The complex index is just below my post. Be careful, adviser! hi
              1. Aries
                Aries 21 March 2016 00: 29
                +1
                I will somehow figure it out myself with my wife ... And I repeat to you once again that the index of the complex, including "just below my post", I hope not Great ..., has nothing to do with the ATGM of the Kornet family has ... not all knowledge should be taken from Wikipedia ...
        2. The comment was deleted.
      2. kapitan92
        kapitan92 20 March 2016 23: 50
        +4
        "Cornet" (GRAU Index - 9K135, according to the classification of the US and NATO Defense Forces: AT-14 Spriggan)
  • Aries
    Aries 20 March 2016 08: 18
    0
    [quote = ism_ek] [quote] Cornet-EM doesn’t have an analogue - in terms of its set of qualities it surpasses all modern foreign ATGMs. [/ quote] But what about the third-generation ATGMs?
    ATGMs of the 3rd generation are toys, not real weapons for war ... they can be discussed when their combat use is spotted in at least one conflict ... if you watch the video with what the Syrian army pounds on the barmaley, this is only "Fagot", "Metis" and "Cornet". And the barmaley, instead of spikes with jewels, they shoot back with old, tested TOU ...
    1. ism_ek
      ism_ek 20 March 2016 09: 55
      +2
      Quote: Aries
      3rd generation ATGMs are toys, not real weapons for war ..

      Nevertheless, we lost the Helicopter contract with India due to the lack of our third generation ATGM
      http://topwar.ru/91533-pochemu-nochnoy-ohotnik-proigral-dlinnomu-luku.html
      1. Aries
        Aries 20 March 2016 10: 28
        +4
        My advice to you is not to read, and especially not to draw any conclusions based on Rostopshin’s articles ...
        1. tol100v
          tol100v 20 March 2016 17: 32
          +1
          Quote: Aries
          My advice to you - do not read

          On a fasting newspaper from neta!
      2. Stiletto_711
        Stiletto_711 20 March 2016 17: 23
        +1
        In helicopters, this is a special case; there, the time of visual contact with a target is a particularly critical factor. But I agree, one of the reasons (the main one when purchasing weapons is the policy) that influenced the loss of the tender was the absence of a 3rd generation ATGM helicopter in the arsenal.
    2. Forest
      Forest 20 March 2016 12: 14
      0
      Just TOW have done tens of thousands, and the Javelins are not enough to the full set and the American army. Spike is even less common.
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 20 March 2016 12: 32
        +1
        "Tou" and "Javelin" complexes of different tactical levels. The Javelin replaces the Dragon in the motorized infantry squads. TOU- armored vehicles and anti-tank units.

        More Spikes than Javelins
      2. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 20 March 2016 15: 34
        +1
        So what? You should see the "reprise" of Kartsev, where he talked about "small crayfish for 3 rubles, and large crayfish for 5 rubles"! It may not be so important that "TOW" is "tens of thousands"; and "Javelin" s .... well, thousands! The main thing is that there are both "those" and "these" ... and there is an opportunity to increase production the most effective weapons, when it becomes clear, with a "sharp" reduction in the production of less effective ... But in Russia now there is no such possibility!
      3. kapitan92
        kapitan92 20 March 2016 23: 25
        +4
        Quote: Forest
        Just TOW have done tens of thousands, and the Javelins are not enough to the full set and the American army. Spike is even less common.

        ".. Initially, it was planned to supply about 74 thousand of these ATGMs to the US Army and Marine Corps within 6 years. But later the supply volumes were more than halved, and the delivery period was increased to 11 years. It was assumed that" Jevlin "will be exported in the amount of 40 - 70 thousand units. However, the cost of one missile turned out to be about 80 thousand US dollars, which is one third higher than the price declared by the manufacturer when the army was adopted." ...
    3. padded jacket
      padded jacket 20 March 2016 12: 18
      +3
      Quote: Aries
      if you watch the video than the Syrian army pounds on barmaley

      The Syrians are very pleased with the ATGM Cornet - its high accuracy of unpretentiousness and ease of maintenance.
      Operator ATGM Cornet says the missile hits the target 100%.
    4. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 20 March 2016 15: 22
      +4
      Whatever you pi ... the third generation rockets are "hit of the season" all over the world! It is not at all necessary to "abruptly" abandon the cheaper rockets of the 3nd and 2nd generation, but it may be more expedient follow the advice of "entertainer" Kartsev: have "small crayfish for 2 rubles, and large crayfish for 3 rubles" ??? Americans have 5rd generation ATGMs "Javelin"; "Hellfire longboy", but do not completely abandon the "TOW" 3- of the second generation and even adopt the "TOW" generation 2+ -with a millimeter-wave radio command control system ("alternative" analogue of the "Cornet-E") ... there is also a "talk" about the adoption of "griffin" missiles with semi-active laser guidance system, cheaper than "Javelin". And the "racial essence" is that Russia does not have 2rd generation ATGMs! Of course, you can continue to "admire the wonder weapon" of the 3+ generation: "Cornet"; "Whirlwind"; "Chrysanthemum" .... but this "delight" is for impressionable "housewives"! What makes you think that "Kornet-D" will be better than "Kornet-E"? Where will the "anti-tank" one be in demand?range of 2 km ("direct attack" mode), if, in general, the direct range does not exceed 8 km on the "Central Russian" landscape? Can we talk about "deserts"? Well Duc and talked about the "export" option for the Middle East! And for Russia, missile systems with a "hinged trajectory of defeat" would be more in demand, taking into account both the "forest" and "built-up" of Russian territories! But they are not there!
    5. kapitan92
      kapitan92 20 March 2016 23: 19
      +4
      Quote: Aries
      3rd generation ATGMs are toys, not real weapons for war ... they can be discussed when their combat use is highlighted in at least one conflict.

      "Jevlin" - Was adopted by the US Army in 1996. It was widely used during the fighting in Iraq.
      1. Aries
        Aries 20 March 2016 23: 45
        +1
        Yeah, maritime workers who, after several shots and intercepts on the trajectory, as well as hits on their own, threw them out and began to fight with the old tested TOU ...
  • Aries
    Aries 20 March 2016 08: 21
    -1
    Who did not understand, about the automakers it was sarcasm ...
  • Professor
    Professor 20 March 2016 08: 24
    +1
    Blah, blah, blah ... having no analogues in the world. I have read so far:
    But the simplicity of the “Cornet” is due to the large number of applied know-how, which in the West still cannot be repeated.

    In the West they cannot, but in the "technologically advanced" Iran they did. fellow
    Minus article. negative

    1. Amurets
      Amurets 20 March 2016 08: 41
      +8
      Quote: Professor
      In the West they cannot, but in the "technologically advanced" Iran they did.

      In Iran, they were able to build gas centrifuges to enrich uranium, and in the United States they could only master this technology after the collapse of the USSR.
    2. Aries
      Aries 20 March 2016 08: 42
      +6
      Professor! Judging by the flag, you are very worried about everything Iranian ... however, there are many versions of the appearance of the "Iranian" cornet ... among which there is a simple purchase, production under a license, there is also copying, however ... the main version in knowledgeable circles is the repainting of the ones received from friends ...
      1. Professor
        Professor 20 March 2016 09: 58
        -2
        Quote: Aries
        however, there are many versions of the appearance of the "Iranian" cornet ... among which there is a simple purchase, production under license, there is also copying, however ... the main version in knowledgeable circles is repainting received from friends ...

        The license for the production of ATGM Cornet was not sold to Persians.

        Quote: Amurets
        In Iran, they were able to build gas centrifuges to enrich uranium, and in the United States they could only master this technology after the collapse of the USSR.

        The United States was the first to make nuclear weapons without centrifuges. Without centrifuges, they stamped it in non-childish quantities, and now it turns out that the Persians surpassed them in nuclear technology. laughing
        1. Aries
          Aries 20 March 2016 10: 24
          +2
          Therefore, I say that the main version is different ....
        2. tol100v
          tol100v 20 March 2016 17: 42
          +3
          Quote: Professor
          The license for the production of ATGM Cornet was not sold to Persians.

          And sho, did you hold a candle? Or were you present at the cutting of the contract?
    3. Lopatov
      Lopatov 20 March 2016 11: 53
      +1
      Quote: Professor
      In the West they cannot, but in the "technologically advanced" Iran they did.

      Well done. And some here all write that Iran is not developed at all in scientific and technical terms, it can only rivet bad copies.
      1. Professor
        Professor 20 March 2016 12: 04
        -2
        Quote: Spade
        Well done.

        For what they stole from you without paying a dime for intellectual property?
        Quote: Spade
        And some here all write that Iran is not developed at all in scientific and technical terms, it can only rivet bad copies.

        We cannot judge the quality of the copy. Is not it? wink
        1. Lopatov
          Lopatov 20 March 2016 12: 13
          +4
          Quote: Professor
          For what they stole from you without paying a dime for intellectual property?

          Well, what should they do? Sanctions 8)))
          1. Professor
            Professor 20 March 2016 12: 23
            0
            Quote: Spade
            Well, what should they do? Sanctions 8)))

            How is it in the commandments? "Don't steal." wink
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. Lopatov
              Lopatov 20 March 2016 12: 49
              +3
              And who said they stole?
              1. Professor
                Professor 20 March 2016 13: 17
                -1
                Quote: Spade
                And who said they stole?

                Then 2 options remain:
                1. Russia, in violation of sanctions, launched the production of Cornets.
                2. The Persians accidentally turned out a complex well, ooooooc similar to Cornet.

                Quote: Aries
                For firing missiles with GOS, it is necessary for the GOS to capture the target; at the current level of development of technology, it takes at least 30 seconds to capture the GOS of the target.

                Yah?
                1. Aries
                  Aries 20 March 2016 15: 25
                  -3
                  Well yes. Learn materiel ...
                  1. Dan4eG
                    Dan4eG 20 March 2016 17: 31
                    +4

                    launch without capture
                  2. Professor
                    Professor 20 March 2016 19: 57
                    -2
                    Quote: Aries
                    Well yes. Learn materiel ...

                    Why not 30 minutes? tongue
                    1. Aries
                      Aries 20 March 2016 22: 55
                      0
                      According to the performance characteristics ...
                      1. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 20 March 2016 23: 25
                        +2
                        Are you sure?
                        According to the performance characteristics of "Javelina" 30 seconds is a completely different time. This is the time to turn on the complex. For the same "Shturm-S" it takes about three minutes to warm up.
                      2. Aries
                        Aries 20 March 2016 23: 53
                        -1
                        Everything is correct 30 seconds to turn on, still time to search for and capture the target, the operator and get permission from the GOS to shoot ... But assaulting a tank of a completely different class is like comparing a hang glider and an airplane ... you can fly on both, but the training is different ...
          2. Amurets
            Amurets 20 March 2016 13: 55
            +2
            Quote: Professor
            How is it in the commandments? "Don't steal."

            Well! Professor, who would say, just not Israel! Automatic machine "Galil" a copy of the Soviet AKM, Uzi-copy of Sa.23 Ya. Holechek from Czechoslovakia. I will not list who stole what from each other. Nobody canceled industrial espionage, so that let's not talk about the commandment "Do not steal." Jews including. I mean the first nuclear bombs created in 1945.
            1. Herman
              Herman 20 March 2016 13: 58
              +3
              Galil is a licensed copy of the Finnish Valmet, which in turn is a licensed copy of AK.
              1. Taras
                Taras 21 March 2016 11: 54
                0
                licensed copy of a licensed copy? a license that already gives you the right to issue your licenses for what you are doing under a license? lol
                1. Professor
                  Professor 21 March 2016 12: 03
                  -4
                  Quote: Taras
                  licensed copy of a licensed copy? a license that already gives you the right to issue your licenses for what you are doing under a license? lol

                  These are the problems of the USSR and Finland. Israel legally acquired a license from Finland. Have a complaint? Sue the Finns.
                  1. Taras
                    Taras 21 March 2016 12: 30
                    +1
                    that is, you can buy something that does not belong to Pradovan?
            2. Professor
              Professor 20 March 2016 14: 04
              -7
              I heard a ring, but I don’t know where he is.

              Quote: Amurets
              automatic machine "Galil" a copy of the Soviet AKM

              The license was acquired from Finland.

              Quote: Amurets
              Ultrasound copy of Sa.23 J. Holeček from Czechoslovakia.

              The same "copy" as the Kalashnikov copy of the German Stg-44 assault rifle.

              Quote: Amurets
              I will not list who stole something from each other.

              But in vain. We would know a lot of interesting things.

              Quote: Amurets
              Nobody canceled industrial espionage, so let's not talk about the commandment "Do not steal".

              You may not need commandments. Everyone chooses his own path.

              Quote: Amurets
              As for the nuclear weapons supposedly created by the Americans, do not la-la. It was created by all progressive humanity, including Jews. I mean the first nuclear bombs created in 1945.

              Right Nuclear weapons were created by the Martians, and the Jews were not Americans, because as everyone knows, Americans are blacks. wassat
              1. Amurets
                Amurets 20 March 2016 16: 12
                +3
                Quote: Professor
                Right Nuclear weapons were created by the Martians, and the Jews were not Americans, because as everyone knows, Americans are blacks.

                Exactly! Martians, lunatics, black cannibals caught by Tarzan. You at least think what you write. Einstein from Germany, Teller from Hungary. These are the Jews who created the atomic bomb, and there were many other scientists from other countries who worked in Los Alamos, but the Americans not former. For example Niels Bohr, Enrico Fermi And a number of outstanding scientists. The American was Robert Openheimer, the head of the "Manhattan Project".
                1. Professor
                  Professor 20 March 2016 16: 21
                  -3
                  Quote: Amurets
                  Exactly! Martians, lunatics, black cannibals caught by Tarzan. You at least think what you write. Einstein from Germany, Teller from Hungary. These are the Jews who created the atomic bomb, and there were many other scientists from other countries who worked in Los Alamos, but the Americans not former. For example Niels Bohr, Enrico Fermi And a number of outstanding scientists. The American was Robert Openheimer, the head of the "Manhattan Project".

                  Wow ... It turns out Einstein was not American, Edward Teller was not American, Enrico Fermi was not American ... Wow. laughing
                  Bohr really wasn’t American.
                  1. tol100v
                    tol100v 20 March 2016 17: 51
                    0
                    Quote: Professor
                    Bohr really wasn’t American.

                    This is exactly what the "professor" is not an American or a Jew! DOES NOT RECOGNIZE THESE, NOR THESE!
                    1. padded jacket
                      padded jacket 20 March 2016 18: 01
                      0
                      Quote: Tol100v
                      This is exactly what the "professor" is not an American or a Jew! DOES NOT RECOGNIZE THESE, NOR THESE!

                      He was a professor of semi-Jews, and he himself said that his mother was a Belorussian.
            3. padded jacket
              padded jacket 20 March 2016 14: 13
              +1
              Quote: Amurets
              I will not list who stole something from each other.

              Add another plane Kfir copy of the French Mirage-5 missile boat Reshef copy of the French Combatants.
          3. Nikolaevich I
            Nikolaevich I 20 March 2016 15: 57
            +5
            Jews and ... commandments? belay
            1. Professor
              Professor 20 March 2016 16: 07
              -2
              Quote: Nikolaevich I
              Jews and ... commandments? belay

              It's a shame that your commandments are Jewish? wink
              I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery. May you have no other gods before My face.
              Do not make yourself an idol and no image of what is in the sky above and what is on the earth below, and what is in the waters below the earth. Do not worship and serve them; for I am the Lord your God, a jealous God of God, who for the guilt of the fathers punishes children to the third and fourth kind, who hate me, and do mercy up to a thousand [generations] to those who love me and keep my commandments.
              Do not misuse the name of the Lord thy God in vain, for the Lord will not leave unpunished that taketh his name in vain.
              Observe the sabbath day to keep it holy, as the Lord your God commanded you. Six days of work, and do all your work; And the seventh day is the Sabbath to the Lord your God. Do not do [any work], neither you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your servant, nor your servant, nor your ox, nor your donkey, nor any of your cattle, nor your stranger, who your servant rested, and your servant, as you do. And remember that [you] was a slave in the land of Egypt, but the Lord your God brought you out with a strong hand and a high muscle, therefore the Lord your God commanded you to keep the Sabbath day.
              Honor your father and your mother, as the Lord your God commanded you, that your days may be long, and that it may be well with you in the land which the Lord your God gives you.
              Thou shalt not kill.
              Do not commit adultery.
              Do not steal.
              You shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor.
              Do not desire the wife of your neighbor, and do not desire the house of your neighbor, nor his field, nor his slave, nor his slave, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor anything that your neighbor has.
            2. padded jacket
              padded jacket 20 March 2016 17: 36
              +2
              Quote: Nikolaevich I
              Jews and ... commandments?

              They also have commandments that the Jews say to Moses on Mount Sinai the Jewish God Yahweh or Jehovah (by the way, the followers of Jehovah who used to go to our homes often are followers of Judaism).
              But here it is necessary to clarify - the Jews do not recognize Jesus:
              Orthodox Judaism does not recognize Jesus as a Prophet or Messiah.

              In contrast, for example, from Muslims:
              According to Islam, Jesus (in Arabic عيسى, usually transliterated as Isa) is considered one of the important prophets of God who brought the Scriptures, and a miracle worker. Jesus is also called the "Messiah"

              So the similarity between Christians and Jews is rather arbitrary, and most likely the Jews simply "copied" their commandments from our Christian Bible.
            3. tol100v
              tol100v 20 March 2016 17: 52
              +1
              Quote: Nikolaevich I
              Jews and ... commandments?

              Immediately one more will appear: delete what is not necessary - cross out!
              1. padded jacket
                padded jacket 20 March 2016 18: 17
                +3
                Quote: Tol100v
                Immediately one more will appear: delete what is not necessary - cross out!

                Yes, all the same, these commandments are not observed - what is the cost of the Israeli leadership walking around the world with outstretched hand and begging them for various "donations" for the Holocaust and so on.

                By the way, the new Chinese ATGM HJ-12 and ATGM HJ-10 are very similar to the Jewish Spikes, probably they sold the license to the Chinese lol

      2. Nikolaevich I
        Nikolaevich I 20 March 2016 15: 55
        +4
        Quote: Professor
        Well done.

        Quote: Professor
        For what they stole from you without paying a dime for intellectual property?

        You guessed it! For the fact that in spite of the long-term “forcing” Iran to “break away” from the “civilizational achievements” ..... of the modern “West”, the said country was able to plant the Merikos “super-duper” drone, and managed to establish its production! There is infa that Iran in Syria uses with might and main "Iranian clones" of Israeli drone models ... are they all "produced under license"? laughing And what about ..... "did the Iranians cut the Kornet or did they not cut it?" .... well, not everything is measured in rubles or dollars! So you need to send a "package" to the Kurds, or to the "Israeli" Palestinians .... but how? "International" ..... "no-and-no!"; and Iran -... "z-z-z!"
        1. Professor
          Professor 20 March 2016 16: 02
          -6
          Quote: Nikolaevich I
          ..of the modern "West", the mentioned country was able to plant the Merikos "super-duper" drone, and managed to establish its production!

          Do you want to discuss how they "planted" it and "managed to establish it"? wink

          Quote: Nikolaevich I
          There is infa that Iran in Syria uses with might and main "Iranian clones" of Israeli drone models ... are they all "produced under license"?

          And the Persians showed the flight of their 5th generation aircraft. wink


          Quote: Nikolaevich I
          And what about ..... "did the Iranians cut the Kornet or did they not cut it?" .... well, not everything is measured in rubles or dollars!

          That's for sure. Allies usually poke insolently at each other.



          Quote: Nikolaevich I
          You will need to send a "package" to the Kurds, or to the "Israeli" Palestinians .... but how? "International" ..... "no-and-no!"; and Iran -... "z-z-z!"

          The Persians have long spat on you and everything "International" ..... "no-and-zya!"
    4. padded jacket
      padded jacket 20 March 2016 12: 27
      +2
      Quote: Spade
      Well done. And some here all write that Iran is not developed at all in scientific and technical terms, it can only rivet bad copies.

      No one knows how the professor as a storyteller does not know where his analogue of the ATGM Cornet came from in Iran.
      Most likely, Iran was given a license to manufacture these complexes (of course this was not advertised), taking into account the fact that they will then supply them to the Hezbollah national-patriotic movement and others that it is not very convenient for us to do directly to Russia.
  • tol100v
    tol100v 20 March 2016 17: 38
    +1
    Quote: Professor
    In the West they cannot, but in the "technologically advanced" Iran they did.

    We could! But not with your help! You need to patch your "kumpol"! So take care of this!
  • Stiletto_711
    Stiletto_711 20 March 2016 18: 12
    +1
    I strongly doubt that the Dehlaviye anti-tank missile system is a full-fledged clone of the Kornet, as is usually the case with the Iranians, there is no reliable data either on armor penetration or on the control channel of the complex and its noise immunity. With a high probability, this is a Tosan doped for laser target designation, aka Konkurs-M. Professor do not read Iranian newspapers before meals, they sometimes write this about Israel fellow
    Regarding, they can - they cannot repeat the know-how used in "Kornet-E / Kornet-EM" in the West, then why are you actually surprised? There is a slightly different school for designing anti-tank systems, they do not know all the features of our complex, I fully admit that we do not know all the nuances of their technology. Yes, and it is not interesting in the West to copy our samples, they are relatively inexpensive, there is no scale for cutting funds, and it is not even convenient to twist the hands of the allies during a voluntary-forced sale because of such pennies.
    1. padded jacket
      padded jacket 20 March 2016 18: 45
      +1
      Quote: Stilett_71
      I strongly doubt that the Dehlaviye anti-tank missile system is a full-fledged clone of the Kornet, as is usually the case with the Iranians, there is no reliable data either on armor penetration or on the control channel of the complex and its noise immunity. With a high probability, this is a Tosan doped for laser target designation, aka Konkurs-M.

      All the same, Dehlavlie is more like Cornet, so most likely it is a copy of it that Iran is releasing.
      ATGM Cornet

      PTRK Dehlaviye

      ATGM Competition
  • Dead hand
    Dead hand 20 March 2016 09: 45
    +2
    As a result of the firing, a set of plates was pierced through, and the dump of the bulldozer that had recklessly left behind the target, which dragged these plates, was also damaged. In general, they struck a meter of armor and a vehicle in addition ....... now the barmalei are scratching their turnips stupid and think that you can’t live like that anymore))) .. and in the process the deal fell through .... and the bulldozer also decided purchasing: D
    1. tol100v
      tol100v 20 March 2016 18: 02
      +1
      Quote: Dead Hand
      ..and they decided not to buy a bulldozer either

      The bulldozer is to blame for everything - it was not there!
  • Slippery
    Slippery 20 March 2016 11: 43
    +7
    Quote: Professor
    Blah, blah, blah ... having no analogues in the world. I have read so far:

    Professor, you are an adult and sometimes surprise. Show an article by Israeli, European State manufacturers or designers where they will say "yes shit, our development is better than others." This is a product and a "brainchild" that designers love. Regarding the article, I agree that there are not enough details, it is more like the PPR they sat, they talked about "pi", they dispersed. But in general it is interesting.
    1. Professor
      Professor 20 March 2016 12: 01
      -3
      Quote: Slippery
      Show an article by Israeli, European US manufacturers or designers where they will say "yes shit, our designs are better from others."

      Believe it or not, this is exactly what I have been doing for many years - I read articles by Israeli, European and US manufacturers or designers. But nowhere did I come across "those who have no analogs in the world." They can write "the best in the world", but such a phrase is rare and is considered bad form. More often they can write "for the first time in the world."

      Quote: Slippery
      Regarding the article, I agree that there are not enough details, it is more like the PPR they sat, they talked about "pi", they dispersed.

      Well, what you ... It would be better if they were less "detailed" and we did not bother to read this:
      Let's just say that, in addition to information on the Internet accessible to everyone, we do not have reliable information about the use of our complexes on the Merkava and Leopards.

      Kornet-EM has no analogue - in terms of the totality of qualities, it surpasses all modern foreign ATGMs.

      Missiles are launched with a difference of less than a second, so even in the case of "removal" by the active defense system of the first missile, the second is guaranteed to hit the target.

      Because foreign anti-tank systems, the same American TOW, especially you can’t drag on yourself - it is large and heavy, to carry it, you need a whole calculation. And “Cornet-E” is positioned as a portable complex.

      Did your complexes fall into the hands of competitors, is there such information?
      MA.: Again, we don’t have official information, but on the Internet you can’t see anything ...

      But the simplicity of the “Cornet” is due to the large number of applied know-how, which in the West still cannot be repeated.

      A curtain.
      1. Aries
        Aries 20 March 2016 12: 19
        +1
        Well, why these excerpts from the article? As far as I understand this interview, and not a technical article ... if you have a refutation of the proposed theses - links to the studio!
        1. Professor
          Professor 20 March 2016 20: 13
          0
          Quote: Aries
          Well, why these excerpts from the article? As far as I understand this interview, and not a technical article ... if you have a refutation of the proposed theses - links to the studio!

          I have a lot of these links. What specific "thesis" are you interested in?

          Quote: Nikolaevich I
          Somehow it happened that he blamed the Donbass militias that they were to blame for the destruction of the DPR and LPR cities, and for the death of civilians ... that the Malaysian Boeing was shot down by the militias.

          Congratulations, Mr. Sovramshi. hi

          Quote: Nikolaevich I
          But when the Arab "drug dealers" killed 3 Jewish teenage drug addicts for failing to pay for the drugs on time: the Israelis staged a "butch", which ultimately led to such a result "2 destroyed Palestinian cities (at least) ; Tens of thousands of Palestinians (residents of these cities) perished; among them, dozens (if not hundreds) of children from the "professor" not a single gram of condemnation of "Euro-heroes" or regret about the many victims It did not follow! "Classic" case! In others, we will certainly notice a speck: but in ourselves and on the log we will not pay attention!

          Oh strong grass this year. Peeping. wassat
      2. AlexW
        AlexW 20 March 2016 15: 52
        +2
        .But nowhere did I come across "those who have no analogues in the world." They can write "the best in the world", but such a phrase is rare and is considered bad form. More often they can write "the first in the world".Verbiage tongue
      3. tol100v
        tol100v 20 March 2016 18: 07
        +2
        Quote: Professor
        , but such a phrase is rare and considered bad form. More often they can write "for the first time in the world."

        Here are your statements and are sometimes bad tone and a rare phrase in the world!
    2. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 20 March 2016 16: 26
      +4
      Is it worth taking literally all the "arguments" of the so-called "professor" seriously? Somehow it happened that he blamed the Donbass militias that they were to blame for the destruction of the DPR and LPR cities, and for the death of civilians ... that the Malaysian Boeing was shot down by the militias ... And it was useless to refer to the fact that Russia was ready to present to all interested parties "iron" proofs of "her innocence", and that there was no point in "sending Bukov to Donbass"; when at that time the Oka-AKM would have done an excellent job with the necessary tasks! But when the Arab "drug dealers" killed 3 Jewish teenage drug addicts for failing to pay for the drugs on time: the Israelis staged a "butch", which ultimately led to such a result "2 destroyed Palestinian cities (at least) ; Tens of thousands of Palestinians (residents of these cities) perished; among them, dozens (if not hundreds) of children from the "professor" not a single gram of condemnation of "Euro-heroes" or regret about the many victims It did not follow! "Classic" case! In others, we will certainly notice a speck: but in ourselves and on the log we will not pay attention!
  • Lopatov
    Lopatov 20 March 2016 12: 09
    0
    Great rocket. Everything else is out of the ordinary. And against this background, the developers ’boast doesn’t look very beautiful.
    It seems that they are there on their own wave "doing", not paying attention to either the features of the combat use of ATGMs, or what is being done in other countries.

    The wearable "Cornet" loses out to the Belarusian complexes in everything, except for armor penetration.
    "Cornet" based on "Tiger" is generally sheer idiotism. It seems that it was originally made not for the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation but for a foreign customer
    1. Aries
      Aries 20 March 2016 12: 35
      +2
      The missile is not in itself - it is part of the complex ...
      What are the super characteristics of Belarusian complexes, besides dubious remote control?
      Well, actually, the letter "E" in the name of the complex speaks of export ... ie. foreign customer ...
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 20 March 2016 13: 02
        -1
        Quote: Aries
        The missile is not in itself - it is part of the complex.

        I agree. In this case, the flaws of the launch level the advantages of the rocket.


        Quote: Aries
        What are the super characteristics of Belarusian complexes, besides dubious remote control?

        Remote control, automatic target tracking, the ability to control multiple complexes by one operator.
        1. Aries
          Aries 20 March 2016 15: 31
          +3
          Remote control, especially in a portable complex, an unjustified excess - greatly increases the mass of PU and the entire wearable kit. An automatic tracking machine is needed only for shooting at high-speed targets that the tank moving towards you is not, in addition, it has a tiger on the Cornet-EM ... controlling one operator with several complexes, if necessary reloading manually ... is also a dubious achievement ...
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 20 March 2016 18: 51
            +1
            Quote: Aries
            Remote control, especially in a portable complex, an unjustified excess

            The new operator is cheaper ....

            I understood your idea

            Quote: Aries
            A tracking machine is needed only for shooting at high-speed targets, which the tank moving towards you is not

            Sorry, you didn’t have to shoot at least from the simulator.


            Quote: Aries
            besides that in Cornet-EM on the tiger he is ...

            The trouble is that, placed on the "Tiger", it simply will not reach where it can be used
            1. Aries
              Aries 20 March 2016 19: 19
              0
              With a remote control, everything would be great, if it weren’t for manual reloading, anyway, the operator should appear on the position ...
              I had to shoot on the simulator and not only in Kornet, so I’m speaking firsthand ...
              As for the chassis, the question is not for the ATGM, but for the automotive industry ... offer your carrier ...
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 20 March 2016 19: 54
                +1
                Quote: Aries
                With a remote control, everything would be great, if it weren’t for manual reloading, anyway, the operator should appear on the position ...

                Why exactly the operator, and not the second number?


                Quote: Aries
                I had to shoot on the simulator and not only in Kornet, so I’m speaking firsthand ...

                According to Stanislavsky ... Well, or a foul simulator.

                It is very difficult to hold, especially if it is off-road, and the target moves unevenly, constantly changing the angular movement relative to the launch.
                A joystick or a "joystick" handle for self-propelled ones, wherever it went, but with flywheels of portable complexes, it is almost impossible.

                Quote: Aries
                As for the chassis, the question is not for the ATGM, but for the automotive industry ... offer your carrier ...

                Even the BRDM-2 has a better cross. In general, SPTRK should be on a tracked base, especially in our conditions.
                1. Aries
                  Aries 20 March 2016 20: 59
                  +1
                  Those. you feel sorry for the operator, but there is no second number ... I understood your idea ...
                  The simulator is the most common, it is available at all exhibitions, come shoot ... and I didn’t understand the impassability here ... the complex stands in its position anyway it’s all-terrain, sand or asphalt ...
                  Well, if you are ready to resume the release of the BRDM-2 ... I think the Cornet developers will be happy to equip it ... And as for the tracks ... it’s possible on the tracks ... Cornet-EM complex, which can be placed on any medium if only load capacity and volume ...
                  1. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 20 March 2016 22: 41
                    0
                    Quote: Aries
                    Those. you feel sorry for the operator, but there is no second number ... I understood your idea ...

                    Not understood. If the operator works with several complexes, then he does not need to be distracted by reloading.

                    Moreover, approaching the launcher just to charge it is much safer than being with it all the time.

                    Quote: Aries
                    moreover, here I didn’t understand the impassability ... the complex stands on its position anyway, off-road, sand or asphalt ...

                    What am I writing about. Without trying it yourself, it's hard to understand. The complex is worth it. And the target moves. And unevenly. And the impassability of this unevenness is very conducive.



                    1. Aries
                      Aries 20 March 2016 23: 01
                      +1
                      Well, I also say - the operator is sitting, and the second numbers near the PU are at the expense ... "Russia is big ... there are a lot of peasants"
                      As for shooting at a target, you have no idea what you're talking about ... there’s nothing to comment on ... a conversation between a blind man and a deaf ... at least you recalculate the angular speed of the target and how it is affected by off-road ...
  • Slippery
    Slippery 20 March 2016 12: 13
    +1
    Quote: Professor
    "for the first time in the world".

    Well, yes, well, yes, it has analogues but for the first time ... Professor, let's not fall into verbiage, otherwise we will begin to place commas between each other wink
    Quote: Professor
    Well, what you ... It would be better if they were less "detailed" and we did not bother to read this:
    I hope this is sarcasm? ))) therefore said the article PPR.
  • Kenneth
    Kenneth 20 March 2016 12: 20
    +1
    What I personally do not understand is the sharp rejection of the GOS for our developers. What is know-how
    The tank, unlike the plane of the dead, will not make a loop. Disruption of capture is much less likely.
    1. Aries
      Aries 20 March 2016 12: 28
      +2
      For firing missiles with GOS, it is necessary for the GOS to capture the target; at the current level of development of technology, it takes at least 30 seconds to capture the GOS of the target. Are you ready to stand still for half a minute while the GOS captures the target while a tank is riding on you? Bassoon, Metis, Cornet are ready to shoot as soon as they saw the tank ...
      1. Kenneth
        Kenneth 20 March 2016 16: 33
        0
        And you are sure that let’s say for 30 seconds they’re waiting. Maybe 30 ms. It will be more accurate.
        1. Aries
          Aries 20 March 2016 19: 21
          +1
          In MANPADs, time is shorter, but still seconds ... besides capturing a target against the sky and against the earth are completely different tasks ...
  • Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 20 March 2016 12: 21
    +5
    Yes, this is not "Baby" with "Fogot". A very serious and effective weapon. IMHO, if a serious mess happened, the "Metis" will rule the show, due to their simplicity and cheapness, as during the Second World War the semi-wooden Yaks and La beat Messerer and Fokers, since they were cheaper and produced more of them ... With comparable characteristics.
  • Herman
    Herman 20 March 2016 12: 33
    +1
    Quote: Aries
    For firing missiles with GOS, it is necessary for the GOS to capture the target; at the current level of development of technology, it takes at least 30 seconds to capture the GOS of the target. Are you ready to stand still for half a minute while the GOS captures the target while a tank is riding on you? Bassoon, Metis, Cornet are ready to shoot as soon as they saw the tank ...


    Shot and wait the same 30 seconds until the rocket reaches.
    1. Aries
      Aries 20 March 2016 12: 38
      +2
      Does Spike instantly hit you?
      1. Herman
        Herman 20 March 2016 12: 42
        -2
        No, not instantly, but by myself.
        The rocket flies, the shooter makes legs.
        1. Aries
          Aries 20 March 2016 12: 51
          +3
          Will your uncle control the result of the shooting? Did you hit or miss, the main thing is to shoot? So from the ATGM there is no defensive fire, this high-precision weapon ... besides, it is psychologically difficult to stand and wait for a tank to come at you, and a rocket flies at the cornet ... in addition, at ranges to the target, where Jewelin and Spike can be used in mode fired and "ran away" Kornet flies 10 - 12 s ...
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 20 March 2016 13: 06
            +2
            Quote: Aries
            And will the uncle control the result of the shooting?

            Uncle. For example, the squad leader. And the operator at this time will move to a new position.

            Quote: Aries
            in addition, at ranges to the target, where Jewelin and Spike can be used both in the shot and "run away" mode, the Cornet flies for 10 - 12 s ...

            "Spikes" are different
            1. Aries
              Aries 20 March 2016 15: 34
              +1
              Any Spike or Jewelin seeker captures the target at a distance of 2,5 - 3 km. And the one you are hinting at ... does not capture the target from a position ...
              1. Lopatov
                Lopatov 20 March 2016 19: 06
                +1
                Quote: Aries
                And the one you are hinting at ... does not capture the target from a position ...

                I'm not talking about Spike NLOS

                Spike-SR 20 - 800 m.
                Spike-MR 200 - 2500 m.
                Spike-LR 200 - 4000 m.
                Spike-ER 200 - 8000 m.
                1. Herman
                  Herman 20 March 2016 19: 09
                  0
                  You "+", and I see it badly googled, did not find it.
                2. Aries
                  Aries 20 March 2016 19: 42
                  0
                  So what? Do they all capture the target of the GOS from a position? At 4 and 8 km? Learn materiel ...
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                  2. Lopatov
                    Lopatov 20 March 2016 19: 59
                    0
                    Yes all.
                    Just some of them additionally have the ability to capture targets already in flight.
                    1. Herman
                      Herman 20 March 2016 20: 02
                      0
                      Tell me, what kind of modifications have the ability to capture the target in flight?
                      1. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 20 March 2016 20: 16
                        +1
                        Everyone except Spike-SR.
                        Even the "anti-personnel" Mini-Spike has this option.
                    2. Aries
                      Aries 20 March 2016 21: 01
                      0
                      Learn the materiel ... not a single GOS captured the target for 8 km ...
                      1. Lopatov
                        Lopatov 20 March 2016 22: 46
                        +1
                        Quote: Aries
                        Learn the materiel ... not a single GOS captured the target for 8 km ...

                        Yeah. "Spikes" are considered non-existent.
                      2. Aries
                        Aries 21 March 2016 00: 02
                        0
                        Bringing the source, which says that the GOS ATGM Spike captures the target at a distance of 8 km ... From ground carrier ...
  • Stiletto_711
    Stiletto_711 20 March 2016 18: 27
    +2
    The difference between the control scheme with the seeker and the control scheme of the "Kornet" is that in the case of the seeker, interference must be placed by a rocket that flies to the tank and can be detected. At the same time, the jamming sector is precisely defined and even narrows as the rocket approaches the target. At the "Kornet" interference must be set by the PU, and this is much more difficult.
    1. Herman
      Herman 20 March 2016 18: 32
      0
      Excuse me, and what kind of interference can I put a ptrk with ghs?
      And what?
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 20 March 2016 19: 40
        +2
        Quote: Herman
        Excuse me, and what kind of interference can I put a ptrk with ghs?

        There are many opportunities.
        At the moment, the most effective is the installation of an aerosol curtain
      2. Aries
        Aries 20 March 2016 19: 40
        +1
        But how do helicopters and aircraft protect themselves from MANPADS with GOS ... by firing off heat traps ...
    2. Aries
      Aries 20 March 2016 19: 44
      +2
      I support your impulse, but it’s fundamentally impossible for Cornet to deliver an optical delivery from the enemy ... he just doesn’t see it .... because he is looking back at his PU ...
      1. Lopatov
        Lopatov 20 March 2016 20: 00
        0
        No rocket. But the operator is easy.
        1. Aries
          Aries 20 March 2016 21: 03
          0
          How so?
          1. Lopatov
            Lopatov 20 March 2016 22: 49
            0
            If the operator does not see the target, then, no matter how regrettable it may be, it cannot direct a missile at it.

            There are many methods. Starting with the use of a smoke screen with a complex of optoelectronic suppression of the tank, and ending with the firing of artillery with smoke shells for blinding.
            1. Aries
              Aries 21 March 2016 00: 03
              +2
              If the operator does not see the target, then the target does not see the ATGM ... as it is also not regrettable ..
  • Herman
    Herman 20 March 2016 13: 04
    -1
    [quote = Aries] And will the uncle control the result of the shooting?

    Well, actually, "shot and forgot", the main thing is to get your feet off the launch site, everything else later.
    1. Aries
      Aries 20 March 2016 15: 36
      -2
      The typical position of the ovsky army is the main thing to wash off during the time ... Our main thing is to win ...
      1. Kenneth
        Kenneth 20 March 2016 17: 14
        +3
        For any army, victory is important. But the topic of saving the lives of soldiers is also very important. And here we traditionally lose
  • Rostislav
    Rostislav 20 March 2016 13: 36
    +3
    And what is the "miracle" minus the article slapped?
    Toad strangles, looking at all this splendor?
  • evil partisan
    evil partisan 20 March 2016 17: 43
    +1
    In general, the superiority of the "Cornet" is recognized by everyone.

    And even the Professor? belay
    The world collapsed ... recourse
  • rubidiy
    rubidiy 20 March 2016 19: 17
    -1
    with all due respect to the Tula KBP, I have to admit that the article is purely advertising. 3rd generation ATGMs cannot be done with us. And the point here is not in the capabilities of the KBP, but in the absence of the corresponding production volumes of microprocessors and thermal imagers. It would be better if we talked about it ...
    And GS-18 remained the premium weapon. If you look at competent reviews, and not telecasts about the breakdowns, it will become clear why.
    1. sdc_alex
      sdc_alex 20 March 2016 21: 11
      0
      http://www.mcst.ru/vosmiyadernyj-mikroprocessor-s-arkhitekturoj-elbrus
  • Mentat
    Mentat 21 March 2016 01: 11
    +2
    Quote: Spade
    Quote: Stilett_71
    In my opinion, the main requirement for ATGMs was and remains the ability to hit an enemy tank in any projection with a probability of at least 0,8 and ensure the survival of the complex calculation.

    And do you think that "Cornet" in its current form provides this requirement?

    1. The likelihood of defeat. Does "Kornet" provide it in the conditions of the spread of KAZ and new complexes of optical-electronic suppression? No.
    2. Security for the calculation. Does the Kornet provide it when, thanks to the spread of UV plingators, the tank is able to receive the coordinates of the missile launch site in real time? No.

    Do you think that the calculation of anti-tank systems after start-up will sit in the same place and smoke bamboo?
    1. The time for launch detection and information reception by the tank commander is 1-3 seconds.
    2. Decision making, guidance 5-8 sec.
    3. Shot up to 1 sec. (including human motility).
    4. The flight time of ammunition for 8 km to 30 seconds (!) It is not surprising, because almost all foreign systems are subsonic brake snails.
    Total: from 30 minimum to 42 seconds.

    For 30-40 seconds, the ATGM calculation site as the target for the “retaliation rocket” will leave the imprint of the gunner’s shot and a note of “successful launches”.
  • AID.S
    AID.S 21 March 2016 08: 31
    +2
    Quote: Professor
    Quote: Kars
    They say this is the T-90 that received a TOU hit in Syria.

    They lie. I couldn’t get into the tank. Everyone knows that the uncomplicated Curtain is a panacea for TOU. laughing

    Only those impenetrable tanks on which the Torah is mounted! Everyone knows the same! laughing
  • Huan karlos
    Huan karlos 21 March 2016 09: 10
    +1
    a ray of light passing through the tank right through the eyes of the head of the landfill proved to be very convincing evidence

    I liked it))