Tula "shell"
Before the C-400 Triumph long-range anti-aircraft missile system appeared in Syria, the airspace above the Russian Khmeimim airbase covered the Pantsir-C1 anti-aircraft missile system (ZRPK). From the moment they act in conjunction, there is practically no chance to penetrate the air defenses of our airfield. However, Russia's partners in military-technical cooperation could have been convinced of the combat capabilities of the Tula-made air-defense missile system of the Tula production. About the people who created this unique complex, why a thin rocket is better than a thick one and how Pantsir won the contest from the French Krotal air defense system, to the deputy editor-in-chief of the Independent Military Review, Oleg ODNOKOLENKO told chief designer of the Tula Instrument Design Bureau for air defense complexes Valery Slugin.
- How long, Valery Georgievich, have you been doing Pantsir?
- Since his birth, as soon as the idea appeared.
- So, the Pantsir ZRPK is a root Tula?
- His spiritual alma mater is the city of Tver, the Air Defense Research Center. By this time, after the Tunguska, we had already made for the sailors the Kortik anti-aircraft missile and artillery complex, which I also worked on from and to. Then they threw me on the land.
- In the infantry?
- In winged. The fact is that the legendary head of the Tula Instrument Design Bureau, Arkady Georgievich Shipunov, was very attentive to the Airborne Forces, and in general with the commander of the Airborne Forces Vasily Filippovich Margelov they were great friends. Therefore, many issues were resolved, say, informally. There was such a case: once Margelov came to Shipunov and said: “Arkady, put the Fagot on my combat vehicles.” I don’t have money, as you know, but if you do, I will publicly take you to all places and kiss you. ”
- And what, have you completed the special order of Margelov?
- How could you not fulfill such a request! I then had the opportunity to participate in the installation of the “Fagot” instead of the “Baby” at the BMD in the Kaunas regiment. Again, by order of Uncle Vasya, a full-scale Roman anti-aircraft missile system was made for paratroopers: 8 missiles at 12 km range, 30-mm 2А72 guns, detection and tracking stations, landing craft. Everything was already in the gland, but the complex did not go. That happens. And then the C-300 anti-aircraft missile system appeared. A wonderful complex, a real “Favorite”, if it is a question of knocking down serious targets at long range. But there are also cruise missiles that fly so low and low and can hit the very “three hundred” - and then it will not fulfill its mission. How to be? Option one: it was necessary to make such a complex that would protect the "three hundred". And on the basis of what to do? That's when we paid attention to our ZRPK “Roman”.
- It turns out, "Shell" - the blood brother of "Roman"? What did they call them differently?
- This is a question for the Chief Rocket and Artillery Directorate, for the military - it seems they have some sort of classifier there. So the godfathers of the Pantyr are them. We, as soon as the idea was formed, set to work. In the 1990 year, since our military-industrial complex was already lying on its side, Shipunov and the Commander-in-Chief of the Air Defense Forces Ivan Moiseevich Tretyak signed the contract directly. But funding was sorely lacking. Own resources, too, was not, survived mainly due to small weaponswhich made for the Ministry of Internal Affairs.
- After the anti-tank and anti-aircraft complexes switched to pistols - fell so low?
- Versatility ... It was necessary to somehow survive! And in the 1996 year, when KBP acquired the right of independent trade, we began to look for customers abroad. And found the Emirates, more precisely, Shipunov found. Negotiations continued for several years. And in the end the Arabs still “divorced” Shipunov.
- On the money?
- No, in a good way - to the idea. Somehow he comes back after another southern trip and says: “Guys, throw everything to hell, we will make a new rocket!” The fact is that in addition to the Tula KBP, the Canadians, the French and the Electromechanical Research Institute participated LAW Thor. Then the Canadians disappeared, "Thor", although the complex is very good, also disappeared, we remained with the French. But unless Shipunov could go the distance? Never! So a new rocket appeared. But it was very difficult, and in general the complex was born hard.
- About the Arabian blood "Shell" all heard. Wasn’t he needed his motherland?
- At first, it was absolutely not necessary for the motherland, then it was not before it — a crisis, a ruin ... I told you: we were financed by the residual principle, it’s still good that both the leadership of the Ministry of Defense and science remained people who because of their capabilities they helped us. But the real work began only in 2000, when the contract was signed with the Emirates and the money went. But other difficulties, in addition to financial, there were many. Especially on location cases.
We needed exactly the millimeter-centimeter locator, because the centimeter range is less susceptible to precipitation and sees far away, and the millimeter - this is accuracy. But neither the Ministry of Defense Industry nor the Ministry of Radio Industry at first did not want to make a location with a millimeter range, they thought that this was impossible. It was only after we ourselves made a mock-up of such a locator and conducted tests, it was decided that the locator would be taken in Ulyanovsk. But then the concern “Fazotron” was formed, the director of which once said that Tula is a village and Ulyanovsk is a village, and we say we don’t understand anything in the location. In general, instead of Ulyanovsk, the Phazotron took up the business, but since they had an aircraft location, their hands did not reach our locator.
- But what about the contract with the foreign customer?
- When we entered into a contract with the Emirates, it was honestly said that we still have no complex. And they gave us four years to complete the development and promote the series. And here are such problems ... The situation is critical.
- It is hard to believe that the “Shell” has such an adventurous fate! ..
- Arkady Georgievich Shipunov, whom we called AG on the initials, acted like a weightlifter: if the weight is not taken, but there are attempts, then you still need to increase the weight to win. We already had a model of a single-channel millimeter-centimeter locator, when AG decides: we will make a multi-channel complex with a phased array. So on the horizon appeared JSC Radiofizika, which was engaged in large locators, and in the millimeter range. Another layout was made, but they could not bring the locator to mind either.
And the problems are overlapping. Our 12-km rocket was smokeless and we saw it well with optics. At 20-kilometer they put the engine on mixed fuel, which is solid smoke. As a result, during mining, we almost wasted half of the missiles only because we did not have a radar system, and the optical system was covered with smoke. And it was a joy when a strong wind rose across the line of fire at the range ...
“But did the rocket fly anyway?”
- I flew. But what is the use, if we do not see it in the optical mode, there is a transmitter, but there is no direction finder ... And here, thanks to advertising, a demand for the “Shell” has formed, one might say, on an international scale. What to do? And then, it was 2004, Shipunov accepts, one might say, historical the decision to make the locator yourself. A new direction for KBP was led by his deputy Leonid Borisovich Roshal. Under him, a new, more productive cooperation took shape. The Central Design Bureau (Central Design Bureau of Automation) made the transceiver system, and the design and the control unit as well as the beam control system and the control unit made the KBP. All mathematics - MVTU. So it was proved that, if you really want to, a modern locator can be made in the "village". Although at first many, including myself, were very skeptical of this undertaking. But once Shipunov called to himself a small company of three people and said: “Guys, drop all doubts. We have no other choice, we must do it. ” So we cast aside doubts. And it all worked out.
- But this is a process. But is the moment of the birth of the "Shell" somehow fixed?
- It happened in December. AG went to sign a contract for "shell" with another Arab country. And we are with the very first model - on the ground in Kapustin Yar. Before leaving, he tells me: “If there are no positive results, I will not sign a contract.” I reported to him twice a day - in the morning and in the evening. We received the first successful launch only at the very end of December, and the AG nevertheless signed a contract. In general, he met the New Year at the airport. Well, we celebrated the official birth of the "Shell" at home.
Could the complex appear earlier? Probably could. And this is not only a matter of poor financing. New technologies and new ideas appeared, so we always had to redo something. For example, the optical direction finder of a rocket was altered three times. So even before the appearance of the light in finished form, the Pantsir experienced several upgrades.
- And how was the presentation of the "Shell" abroad?
- The contract provided for one half of the “Armor” to be made on tracks, the other on wheels. At the first demonstration trials abroad, the crawler chassis immediately encountered problems: the engine cooling system did not work well at high temperatures, there were questions about ergonomics, and most importantly, the tracks on the sand constantly flew off the rinks. But Minsk residents are great. They all quickly reworked, and repeated tests were just brilliant. And then the Arabs themselves came to the conclusion that the car chassis is preferable, and the demonstration tests of the complex were carried out on a wheeled chassis.
- It turns out, the Arabs ordered this “music”, and they also paid for everything, and our Defense Ministry “Armor” went almost for nothing, so what?
- I would not say. The complex was designed, one might say, chipped. Work went in parallel. Some requirements for the complex were put forward by a foreign customer, others by our military department. As a result, the complex, as I said, was originally 12-kilometer and single-channel, and became 20-kilometer and multi-channel.
- And how many "Pantsyrey" rolls around the world now?
- I will tell you "for sure": several hundred BM and not one thousand rockets.
- By now these are already industrial scales. Problems with the development of mass production were?
- In this case there are no current problems. But what is our advantage in comparison with other enterprises? The fact that we develop a lot ourselves and produce at home. Therefore, minimally dependent on counterparties. Look: we are doing the location ourselves, the rocket ourselves, the design - this is also all ours, the optical system is again the KBP and our holding's enterprises. Power supply system, too, decided to do at home. And this is a very big plus.
- Clear. There is protection from the fool, but you also created protection from an unscrupulous subcontractor?
In 2003, Academician Arkady Shipunov acquainted Vladimir Putin with the best developments of the Tula KBP. Photo by Alexey Panov / TASS
- It's not just that. If the complex is a hodgepodge of products from different enterprises, the optimal linking of the specified characteristics, as a rule, is difficult. We work in a different way: we make rockets ourselves, for which we give ourselves a technical task, and we make a locator ourselves - as they say, without intermediaries. Where necessary, we will press into the design of one system or “let go” to another ... Here you have the “Armor” at the exit.
- Do you want to say that the Defense Ministry knows better what the military needs?
- Arkady Georgievich Shipunov often repeated: “Never do literally what the military is asking!” He believed that the task of the designers of the defense-industrial complex is to figure out in which direction the development of weapons and military equipment goes, analyze the future and tell the military where to go . That was his principle. Actually, this is how the millimeter range appeared - in the context of the work on the Kortik anti-aircraft missile and artillery complex, designed to combat cruise missiles.
- And the death of the British destroyer “Sheffield”, which the Argentines during the war for the Falkland Islands sank with the cruise missile “Exochet”, probably served as an impulse?
- Is that a pulse. Even before the events on the Volklands, we thought about how to shoot down low-flying targets - the Harpoons and Tomahawks. So that the influence of water was less, the location beam had to be done as early as possible. And a few years before the appearance of the “Dirk”, we carried out an appropriate research project with the Kharkov Institute in order to study what the millimeter range can and cannot do.
- studied?
- studied. Therefore, our rocket telecontrol system still works.
“What about the rocket itself?”
- This is sweetie!
- Switched to culinary terminology ...
- No, I'm serious. What you need to destroy the target? Firstly, it must be detected and, secondly, it must hit something. That is, in the dry residue, only the detector and the warhead are needed, the remaining elements seem to be superfluous. Our rocket, as you know, is a two-stage one. The engine is separated after one and a half seconds after start-up, and the main stage is already flying by inertia. Moreover, the entire marching stage weighs 28 kg, and the combat unit - 20. It turns out that only the combat unit is flying towards the target. Its diameter in the middle of 90 mm. The engine, however, is thick - 170 mm, but after one and a half seconds it has already separated and does not spoil the aerodynamics ... Isn't it brilliant? This is the idea of Academician Shipunov, which was first used in Tunguska.
- Good. And the accuracy? Are there any plans to make a missile with a homing head for the Panther?
- Now even their own superiors criticize us for the fact that the whole world, they say, is engaged in homing heads, but we are not. But where is the limit when the telecontrol system will stop working and without the GOS is not enough? "Tunguska" beat on 8 km, and many did not believe that at such a distance at all you can get into something. But fell! And the 10-km rocket telecontrol system successfully put the target. Today, at the 20-km range, the maximum deviation is just 5 m - if more, the proximity sensor simply does not work. And on 30 km such accuracy is possible? Is possible. Possible on 40 km. But if you put the homing head, the midsection will increase, and the rocket will lose its properties.
- Would you say that between the "model" appearance of the rocket and its combat properties dialectical dependence?
- As is known, Israel made the “David’s Slip” missile defense complex with a 5-meter Stunner missile, which means a stunner. Two heads of guidance - radar and optoelectronic. The starting engine was screwed to the rocket, and in order for the speed to be decent, another one was installed - a three-mode one. And there is no place to mount the warhead - they lost the CU in the process of improvement! They say they will hit targets with a direct hit.
- That is, the homing head directly on the body?
- Like that. But let them try! I believe that the main advantage of the Pantyr is precisely in its rocket, which is extremely high-dynamic, with very high flight-ballistic characteristics. No one has such missiles, including our potential adversary. It was the telecontrol system that allowed us to create such a rocket - simple and fast.
- So, all the best in itself "shell" is obliged to a rocket?
- Not only. In the car, two types of weapons - rocket and cannon. This, too, no one else, except that the machine gun set. A "shell" drags on itself 12 missiles and a half tons of cannon ammunition. Now the control system. I think that it is completely self-sufficient. It consists of two full-fledged systems - location and optical, which, in turn, allows to solve such problems, which even the millimeter-wave range cannot always solve. For example, fighting low-flying targets is 5 m above the surface. In this case, the optical system and the target accompanies, and the rocket bearing. In addition, the optical system allows you to fire at ground targets, which is very popular with our foreign customers. At a distance of 6-kg in the 20 km, the combat unit for any ground target is quite noticeable!
- On the move or from a stop?
- We can work in motion and guns and rockets. Again, no one complex has such properties. But most importantly, the “Shell” can simultaneously fire at four targets at once. What has been repeatedly shown and proven. If we could not confirm this stated characteristic, no one “Pantsir” would buy from us.
- Military-technical cooperation is an area where, as in a bank, they prefer silence. And “Armor”, as far as can be judged, does not particularly need advertising.
– Why is the complex so popular today, why does everyone want it? Because he hit the vein, because the nature of the development of means of air attack was correctly determined. The era of cruise missiles has begun. 200-300 cruise missiles - that's an instant disarming strike that can destroy the entire infrastructure even without the use of nuclear weapons. How to deal with it? You can make a lot of S-300s and a lot of Buk, but they have very expensive missiles, an order of magnitude, if not more, more expensive than ours. And then there were Drones, and in such quantity that you can’t stock up on any missiles, if you do not take into account the ratio of price and quality. But that's not all. Hypersonic aircraft are already approaching. And in order to fight them, it is necessary that the anti-aircraft missile fly as fast as possible, including in the atmosphere. And which of the rockets will fly faster in the atmosphere? Of course, thin - like the "Shell".
- It turns out, your rocket is perfection itself and is no better anymore?
- Why, now we are making another rocket, more advanced, which will be more powerful, and will fly faster and farther. But at the same time it will remain practically in the same dimensions.
- I remember, at the very beginning of work on the ZRPK one of the officials of the Ministry of Defense skeptically called the “Shell” a mixture of “Tunguska” and “Shilka”. But today, the Ministry of Defense buys more complexes than foreign customers. What is this - love will suddenly come over? ..
- Why by accident? Firstly, the complex is very mobile - in the IL-76 "Armor" is loaded with the help of lifting equipment of the aircraft itself. Secondly, it is easy to operate. In our training center, preparing combat calculations. The training cycle is six months. He recently visited us from Kuwait, their deputy commander of the Air Force and Air Defense, and confirmed that he had not seen the best training center in the world.
- Probably, in the battle account, the “Shell” already has real goals?
- Literally in the summer we handed over to the Emirates a batch of cars. They shot at an unmanned aerial vehicle and shot it down at a distance of 15 km. Is this not a real goal?
- "Armor" - your biggest design success?
- I was lucky in the sense that I found myself in such jobs that have always been embodied. As a young specialist, he was engaged in the Konkurs anti-tank missile system, although at the stage of state testing. Then there was the maritime theme - the Dagger anti-aircraft missile and artillery system. True, the “Tunguska-M2” and “Roman” air defense missile defense systems were idle. But I see this as a workout, as pumping up muscles in front of the Shell. And he was adopted! And now we have created a special unit that is actively working on a complex for fleet - "Shell-M". The missile is the same, the control system is appropriately “numbed” - adapted to the operating conditions on the ship, and the launcher itself in configuration resembles the Cortica launcher.
- The creation of "Shell" was not the best of times. In the hard years, probably, many specialists left? Is there a lack of intelligence?
- We then lost very much in human potential. The 90-s went to the experts who now would be for 50, and this is the most productive age in creative terms. There are few such companies left, but I want to say that now young people are growing very quickly. Basic training is lower for them, this is obvious, therefore there is a very large drop out. But those who felt the taste for work, saw in it raisin, develop quite quickly. Because the work is real. Yes, and there is a certain romance. Some, for example, with the "Shell" traveled the whole world. Where not ever been! Is that in the US.
- I have no doubt that the Americans have already produced the “Carapace” and unwound it on cogs.
- The Americans "armor", probably not so much needed. Unlike us, they do not threaten large numbers of cruise missiles, although after the “Caliber” everything can change. But in any case they have something to close. The American air defense system - PRO sufficiently optimal: Stinger - Patriot - THAAD. Patriot is a very good system, but a little expensive. Although for them, perhaps, not very ... THAAD is the anti-missile system, and the Americans are great - they managed to sell it not only to Saudi Arabia, which buys everything, but to the Emirates. It should be noted that the Emirates are very good customers. They know what they want, they are educated enough and are not afraid to exploit the equipment. They shoot a lot and, importantly, do not create problems for the manufacturer of equipment from scratch.
- Are there any problems with a foreign customer?
- It used to be that the Soviet Union produced equipment and armaments in thousands of copies - stamped, sent. And they took everything. Now is not the case. Now there is an Emirati Shell, a Syrian Shell, and so on. All of them are at least somewhat different from each other. Each "armor" must be integrated into the air defense system of the country where it is delivered, and in addition, each contract is a separate set of documentation for operation and for the capabilities of the client country. Well, the design bar should always be on top. Complexes are not the first freshness will not buy. For the state order, we also upgraded the Pantsir - right during serial production.
- Substantially modernized?
- Essentially. Another locator. Computing system put more modern, new software. We finished the design - now the Pantsir can be transported by rail without removing anything. Changed the tower. Before we had three missiles simultaneously, now six missiles on each side. Navigation system set another. See for yourself - at the next Victory Parade.
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