Russia's initiative on the work of "international" rating agencies. Who will show someone red? ..

In 2017, the legislative section regarding rating agencies will come into force in Russia. Moreover, the entry into force of this section among professional economists, as it happened, causes diametrically opposite assessments. At the moment, everyone agrees on one thing: for the existing economic model, this solution will not be trivial. So what is the legislative decision, whose plans are still being hatched?

The fact is that Russia at the state level is going to introduce a rule for international agencies that assign ratings according to the so-called national rating scale. This rule says that international rating services are not entitled to revoke credit ratings based on decisions of third countries. In particular, we are talking about the fact that a certain international rating agency will not be able to change the rating assigned to the national economy if, in relation to this economy or its individual components (companies, banks), someone has decided to impose sanctions or other restrictive measures. In fact, the decision being prepared by the Russian authorities looks like an appeal to international rating agencies: either you do your job openly, or - come on, bye!

In addition, it is also a transparent hint that it is time for the so-called international rating agencies to attend to the implementation of the legislation of those countries whose national economic ratings they are: enter the credit rating of Russia - comply with the legislation!

It would seem that everything is extremely simple, however, such an initiative by the Russian representatives of rating services, who call themselves international, clearly puzzled. Economists who are not related to these agencies, took, as noted at the beginning, in fact, diametrically opposed positions. Some say that such a step of Russia (if it will be made in 2017) will bury the Russian economy, since it will actually follow the path of separation from the global economy. Others are confident that this step of Russia will bury the rating agencies themselves, in which the word “international” in the title does not really reflect their affiliation with certain states.

If we talk about the actual rating structures, then the first alarm sounded in Fitch. The head of the analytical service of this agency Ian Linnell gave an interview to the agency Bloomberg, talking about what decision he and his colleagues decided to take. According to Linnell, he understands that Russia is trying to protect its financial system from any external negative factors, but Fitch, by definition, cannot follow the path of compliance with Russian legislation. Great, isn't it ... And what kind of legislation for Fitch comes first?

Interfax leads a translation of a fragment of a statement by Ian Linnell

The authorities are trying to surround the Russian financial system with a security ring. This can be understood, but we, as a global company that must comply with US laws, are put in a situation where, if sanctions are imposed on Russian customers, we violate either Russian or international law.

This is an outstanding statement in every sense, to which, undoubtedly, one can devote a report on the subject of modern economic norms. Yes, what report ... Linnell made only two proposals, but there would be enough of them for an entire PhD thesis.

Let's return to the statement of the chief analyst Fitch. The man says that his agency cannot break apart, choosing between Russian and international laws, and, of course, will choose international laws ... At the same time, Linnell says openly that a “global” company in which he works, “must comply with the laws USA". Well, yes, the company is an American company with the main headquarters in New York (USA), and therefore it is American laws for Fitch that are the basis of all activities. In other words, if the US authorities decided to impose sanctions on anyone (yes, even Russia), then, let this country have billions of dollars in reserves, no delinquency in paying loans, and indeed no minimum government debt, the agency will begin to drown the credit rating . What Fitch (and not only) does today.

And what kind of international law does Mr. Linnell speak about, if the US Constitution itself doesn’t put these laws at all ... This country has one law - AMERICAN. All the rest is the "filkina diploma", with which the USA has been wiping all the past decades, without particularly concealing its actions.

So ... Understanding that the Russian legislation is simply trying to make Fitch work responding not to a political, but to a real economic situation, the management of this company decided to take the only possible solution for the puppet structure - leaving Russia.

According to Linnell, if Russia really tries to oblige international rating agencies not to change the previously designated credit rating on the basis of politicized decisions of third countries, Fitch will leave and (oh, horror!) Leave Russia without a national credit rating.

But the main question is: is it (the ratings concocted by the American puppet companies that do not reflect the real economic situation) do we need? .. What can we talk about if the same Fitch gives the States and Japan a credit rating close to the maximum, despite the fact that these countries are breaking all records in terms of public debt. The government debt service is governed by the same States, not by real economic levers, but by a printing press heated to the limit and the spread of chaos in entire regions of the world. What can we say if Ukraine’s credit rating was not automatically transferred to the status of “default” after the overdue payment of debt (to Russia)? .. And one more thing: according to Fitch, Estonia’s credit rating, which is tight on EU loans, is equal to the credit rating China and India's higher credit rating! ..

If a rating assignment system is based on these calculations, then what is the point of working together with these, to put it mildly, liars (another word does not miss censorship) of an 80 level? ..

By the way, on what are those experts based who believe that the legislative step of Russia will bury frankly one-sided “international” agencies? And they are based on the fact that Russia is creating a precedent calling for these structures to comply not with American legislation, but in fact international. Moreover, Russia together with China itself creates a rating agency, which, presumably, will base its work not on politicized attacks, but on real economic components. Firstly, this is a good alternative to the American monopoly, and secondly, the opportunity for other players in the world market to compare. And if there is an opportunity to compare, then there is an opinion, and Fitch with his ratings written in Congress can point to the door in other countries of the world.

Comments

[atalef]

Rating agencies - this is not what this or that country wants, but what the companies and states that give loans believe, the country of which does not need to take loans - these drum ratings are a priori.
And now a simple question, who will force me (the creditor) to believe in someone whom I do not know and have never worked with, and even more so who have no (at the moment) reputation - I mean the newly created rating agencies, where a guarantee that they will not be politically engaged?
Here the reputation develops over the years and at the request of a country nothing changes.
So in my understanding - a simple air shock Everything will remain as it was, at least for the next 10 years

[smel]

Well, I don’t think it will remain as it was. For my country, the situation should change for the better. The less engaged organizations about the terrible situation in Russia will blow the whole world, the better. It is one thing when there is no information and the creditor will determine his actions himself, and another when the paid gang in his ear will itch that everything is bad and catastrophic. But we also need to understand that the refusal of the creditor to go on about the USA and its organizations is fraught with consequences for the creditor. Apparently we need to think not only about breaking the system, but also about building. But we have problems with this. Although under such a government this is not surprising

[atalef]

Quote: smel

Well, I don’t think it will remain as it was

But I’m not saying that everything will remain as it was, it just takes a lot of time and these agencies will first of all have to establish themselves as competent and independent

Quote: smel

The less engaged organizations about the terrible situation in Russia will blow the whole world - the better

The better the situation in the Russian economy will be, the less they will trumpet it

Quote: smel

It’s one thing when there is no information and the creditor will determine his actions

In this case, the creditor will not determine anything, at random no one gives money to anyone.
Or gives it at such interest (such as a loan in 20 minutes) that you will remain without pants.

Quote: smel

another, when the paid gang in his ear will itch that everything is bad and catastrophic.

For new agencies, the same will need to be somehow proved that they are not a * paid gang *, but it looks something like this.
You apply to the bank for a loan, he says, well, we will check your credit history and your financial situation. we have an auditor, to which you are responding, but not to hell, I have my own, and bring the nikogma of the unknown Vasya Pupkin.
What do you think the bank will do?
You probably forgot a little who and what he asks for.

Quote: smel

But we also need to understand that the refusal of the creditor to go on about the USA and its organizations is fraught with consequences for the creditor.

These 3 rating agencies are not a private company in the United States; their ratings are used all over the world and not only in the credit ratings section of countries.
Believe in them there is trust and they have a reputation.
Interrupting her will be very difficult.

[hrapon]

Atalef, trust and reputation?

2008-2009. Lehman Brothers, Merrill Lynch, Fannie Mae, and Freddie Mac. If desired, the list can be continued. All of these bankrupts had the highest rating, which allowed to ruin thousands of people and companies, to launch the global crisis.

Before you "marry", see for yourself, do not trust a "matchmaker with a reputation" and it is better to ask your neighbors ...
And if the "matchmaker" cheats, do not let her on the doorstep.

[atalef]

Quote: hrapon

2008-2009. Lehman Brothers, Merrill Lynch, Fannie Mae, and Freddie Mac. If desired, the list can be continued. All of these bankrupts had the highest rating, which allowed to ruin thousands of people and companies, to launch the global crisis.

Of course, these companies simply tricked the rating agencies into providing false information. After that, changes were made in the rating agencies and the information began to be collected from a much larger number of sources.

Quote: hrapon

Before you "marry", see for yourself, do not trust a "matchmaker with a reputation" and it is better to ask your neighbors ...
And if the "matchmaker" cheats, do not let her on the doorstep.

Now they are doing this.

[oldzek]

fresh tradition and hard to believe.

[Imperialkolorad]

Quote: atalef

Of course, these companies simply tricked the rating agencies into providing false information. After that, changes were made in the rating agencies and the information began to be collected from a much larger number of sources.

It’s easy to deceive me - I’m glad to be deceived myself, do not tell the forum users please.

[prostorabochiy]

You are so incompetent, colleague, that I don't even know if it makes sense to explain something to you. Bo must be explained from scratch. To begin with, you should not even go to an economic school, but perhaps to some kind of economic kindergarten. There they will show you in pictures why they are taking loans, who is interested in it (to your thesis, "who asks for whom").

[atalef]

Quote: prostorabochiy

You are so incompetent, colleague, that I don't even know if it makes sense to explain something to you. Bo must be explained from scratch. To begin with, you should not even go to an economic school, but perhaps to some kind of economic kindergarten. There they will show you in pictures why they are taking loans, who is interested in it (to your thesis, "who asks for whom").

Well, I don’t think that we are colleagues and try to exert yourself and explain, you look

[Al1977]

Quote: prostorabochiy

You are so incompetent, colleague, that I don't even know if it makes sense to explain something to you. Bo must be explained from scratch. To begin with, you should not even go to an economic school, but perhaps to some kind of economic kindergarten. There they will show you in pictures why they are taking loans, who is interested in it (to your thesis, "who asks for whom").

There are many non-economists. You, apparently, understand a lot of this. Explain, please. Intrigued right.

[Imperialkolorad]

Quote: atalef

The better the situation in the Russian economy will be, the less they will trumpet it

I dare to disappoint you will blow even harder because you need to work out denyuzhki.

Quote: atalef

In this case, the creditor will not determine anything, at random no one gives money to anyone.
Or gives it at such interest (such as a loan in 20 minutes) that you will remain without pants.

Russia has not taken loans for a long time, but on the contrary commits a terrible deed - it pays them and gets rid of it in every possible way.

Quote: atalef

Interrupting her will be very difficult.

So they themselves grind their reputation very actively with their exclusively biased ratings.

[Assistant]

The less engaged organizations about the terrible situation in Russia will blow the whole world, the better.

Please explain how the expulsion of a rating agency from Russia will prevent him from publishing his assessments and forecasts of the situation in Russia.
Well, they will have to close their branches in Russia, well, they will publish reports, for example, in the USA, in English, and they won’t do anything for it. For example, the UN Special Rapporteur on Belarus is suddenly a non grata person in the Republic of Belarus, and accordingly, he has never visited the country. But this does not prevent him from making regular reports, after each - the howling of the Belarusian Foreign Ministry. With rating agencies it will be the same.
Z. S. I can’t prove the next phrase, so consider it as my personal version. It seems to me that most of the work on analysis and forecasting for Russia in such agencies is still done at the central office.

[jetfors_84]

Fitch also once started.

[atalef]

Quote: jetfors_84

Fitch also once started.

Of course, the road will overcome the road.
If there appears one more objective, with a reputation and professional rating agency - everyone will benefit from this.
mk competition means improving the quality of services.

[afdjhbn67]

Quote: atalef

rating agency

VTsIOM Sanya only VTsIOM !!!))))))))

[atalef]

Quote: afdjhbn67

Quote: atalef

rating agency

VTsIOM Sanya only VTsIOM !!!))))))))

Hey . Nikolay.
Generally funny people.
Believing the tales of Ulyukaev, Siluanov. Glazyev. Leontiev's stories. Medvedev. Well, of course, GDP - while observing the window a completely different picture.
They spit in the direction of rating agencies - which say the absolutely real thing - in Russia's economy, there is a systemic crisis and a garbage rating.
In general, they would look at the window and think for a moment. and who is lying?
Rating agencies or Russian prophets from the economy?

[oldzek]

but I look out my window and see more and more cars in the yard and this is in the sleeping area where simple hard workers live.

[Al1977]

Quote: oldzek

but I look out my window and see more and more cars in the yard and this is in the sleeping area where simple hard workers live.

This type of economy is not like that of the Papuans, do we even have cars? As if in capabilities, we deserve more than buying a car, often a used foreign car.
Compare s / n hard workers from your area and France, Germany, Great Britain.

[Imperialkolorad]

Quote: Al1977

This type of economy is not like that of the Papuans, do we even have cars? As if in capabilities, we deserve more than buying a car, often a used foreign car.
Compare s / n hard workers from your area and France, Germany, Great Britain.

So in these countries, they have not recently destroyed a country for the sake of their purely selfish interests.

[Al1977]

Quote: ImperialKolorad

Quote: Al1977

This type of economy is not like that of the Papuans, do we even have cars? As if in capabilities, we deserve more than buying a car, often a used foreign car.
Compare s / n hard workers from your area and France, Germany, Great Britain.

So in these countries, they have not recently destroyed a country for the sake of their purely selfish interests.

Then in every topic they write about the US occupation of them? And the flows of refugees, which simply broke the EU, are liberals, and this, according to many here, is the most terrible evil. So it’s not easier for them, if not more difficult. So what about comparing their sn and ours?

[afdjhbn67]

Quote: Al1977

It's like

This is supposed to pick up the pluses))) troll reception (already outdated) about cars under the window - late for a year))))

In Buryatia, the commercial real estate market has collapsed, and housing is being sold at cost. Economy, 02.03.2016/90/XNUMX The economic crisis, rising inflation and the debt load of the population dropped the commercial real estate market in Ulan-Ude. Cafes and shops of the city are literally sealed with posters "rent, sell." The crisis boom of entrepreneurs also affects the sales boom, “like in the dashing XNUMXs”
Full version: http://www.baikal-daily.ru/

Here's a reality now outside the window, at least in my city .....

[atalef]

Quote: afdjhbn67

Quote: Al1977

It's like

This is supposed to pick up the pluses))) troll reception (already outdated) about cars under the window - late for a year))))

In Buryatia, the commercial real estate market has collapsed, and housing is being sold at cost. Economy, 02.03.2016/90/XNUMX The economic crisis, rising inflation and the debt load of the population dropped the commercial real estate market in Ulan-Ude. Cafes and shops of the city are literally sealed with posters "rent, sell." The crisis boom of entrepreneurs also affects the sales boom, “like in the dashing XNUMXs”
Full version: http://www.baikal-daily.ru/

Here's a reality now outside the window, at least in my city .....

Today I talked with a friend, in St. Petersburg you can actually buy an 2-x apartment for 50 dollars, prices fell by 40-50% (and sometimes more)

[alicante11]

Today I talked with a friend, in St. Petersburg you can actually buy an 2-x apartment for 50 dollars, prices fell by 40-50% (and sometimes more)

We at 2010 bought our house in 200 squares for 4 million. In 2012, half of such a house (there on the 2 owner) was sold for 8 million. Now, despite the fall, the house is smaller than ours and with a smaller plot, but with household By the constructions, the parents of a classmate of the son purchased for 10 million (although they dropped it from 18, but it is necessary to dump sellers a little on the ground). So the market is still overheating and falling means only a return to normal price.
By the way, if you consider that the tank has risen in price by 2 times, haven't the prices increased in rubles? :)

[Al1977]

Quote: atalef

Today I talked with a friend, in St. Petersburg you can actually buy an 2-x apartment for 50 dollars, prices fell by 40-50% (and sometimes more)

In the suburbs, prices are not falling ... I also thought that it would be possible to buy cheaper ... figs there. as it was a year or two ago, it’s worth it. In euro terms, of course, they fell in the ruble exactly the same .. and denyushki in our rubles in bulk)

[alicante11]

They spit in the direction of rating agencies - which say the absolutely real thing - in Russia's economy, there is a systemic crisis and a garbage rating.

Well, yes, everyone has a crisis, and only Russia has a "trash rating". And what else to do with such agencies, but how not to give a damn about them.

[atalef]

Quote: alicante11

Well, yes, everyone has a crisis

What makes you think that ?

Quote: alicante11

and only Russia has a "junk rating"

Not only .

Quote: alicante11

And what else to do with such agencies, just how not to spit on them.

Can you spit, the question will help?
How much do not spit in the auditor, money in the wallet will not be added

[alicante11]

What makes you think that ?

And why did you decide that "not everyone has a crisis"?

Not only .

I mean - amers.

How much do not spit in the auditor, money in the wallet will not be added

Well why. Already added. Debts are decreasing. And this is a plus.

[atalef]

Quote: alicante11

And why did you decide that "not everyone has a crisis"?

Well, I actually decided not to, I know that.
In the USA - no, in our country - no, in Europe - a slowdown, but certainly not a crisis (now they are launching a policy of quantitative easing), Japan - no. Canada is not.
Because of China, everyone is shaking. but this is in China overturbation, but the world is definitely not a crisis.

Quote: alicante11

I mean - amers.

Amers - everything is in order. They certainly are not in crisis.

Quote: alicante11

Well why. Already added. Debts are decreasing. And this is a plus

You are absolutely right, the economy is falling - this is a minus. the ruble falls - this is the same minus, and multiplying the minus by a minus - of course, gives a plus.

[alicante11]

Well, I actually decided not to, I know that.

Well, I know that too. What we do not have, but in the USA - there is, Japan - is, Canada - is. At you - FIG knows, did not study.

You are absolutely right, the economy is falling - this is a minus. the ruble falls - this is the same minus, and multiplying the minus by a minus - of course, gives a plus. hi

The economy is falling due to the withdrawal of speculative capital and the fall of the non-productive sector. The manufacturing sector is not falling. The ruble is falling in manual mode.

[atalef]

Quote: alicante11

Well, I actually decided not to, I know that.

Well, I know that too. What we do not have, but in the USA - there is, Japan - is, Canada - is. At you - FIG knows, did not study.

You are absolutely right, the economy is falling - this is a minus. the ruble falls - this is the same minus, and multiplying the minus by a minus - of course, gives a plus. hi

The economy is falling due to the withdrawal of speculative capital and the fall of the non-productive sector. The manufacturing sector is not falling. The ruble is falling in manual mode.

Alik, good luck and optimism.
I understand that throwing slogans out of touch with reality and not only the official figures, but also the statements of the first persons of the state - this is apparently in your understanding - patriotism.
Just how many times do not say halva, it will not become sweeter in the mouth.
Good luck

[alicante11]

I understand that throwing slogans out of touch with reality and not only the official figures, but also the statements of the first persons of the state - this is apparently in your understanding - patriotism.
Just how many times do not say halva, it will not become sweeter in the mouth.

Alexander, I’m only mimicking you. You don’t give any figures. You only bring slogans and demand their refutation if you do not agree with them. Is there any reason for me to do this?

Good luck hi

And you don’t get sick. You could not resist today until I went to bed. Or I sat at the computer :).

[Imperialkolorad]

Quote: atalef

In general, they would look at the window and think for a moment. and who is lying?
Rating agencies or Russian prophets from the economy?

Yes, not everything is in order with us, but the trick is that countries where there is virtually no economy are often higher than Russia.

[atalef]

Quote: ImperialKolorad

Yes, not everything is in order with us, but the trick is that countries where there is virtually no economy are often higher than Russia.

can I have an example?

[Vadim42]

Judging by your rating (+, -), then you are a complete minus in the local rating.

[afdjhbn67]

Quote: atalef

Generally funny people.

The conclusion is quite simple - if the West took loans from us, they can at least show red cards, at least stick pins ... but .. our bankers take (took) cheap loans in the West and drive the way to us three times, and there’s no place to go, and everything else is just good for no more ..

[Alexart]

Quote: atalef

They spit in the direction of rating agencies - which say the absolutely real thing - in Russia's economy, there is a systemic crisis and a garbage rating.
In general, they would look at the window and think for a moment. and who is lying?

Damn, well, here from Russia, from a Siberian window I look: everything seems to be as usual)))
Maybe something is still wrong with Fitch ??
Bread as it was by 16 five years ago, so it stayed.
Apartment prices are the same.
And do not tell me jokes that from Israel it is better to see how everything is bad with me outside the window)

[Al1977]

Quote: afdjhbn67

VTsIOM Sanya only VTsIOM !!!))))))))

But what about the first channel and Soloviev ??? Only there they tell the whole truth from beginning to end, and everything else - lies and intrigues of enemies.

[Imperialkolorad]

Quote: Al1977

But what about the first channel and Soloviev ??? Only there they tell the whole truth from beginning to end, and everything else - lies and intrigues of enemies.

Do not lie completely recklessly. At least Solovyov is bonfiring both in the tail and mane of the current economic policy. And advocates only for the outside where there really is something to be proud of.

[afdjhbn67]

Quote: ImperialKolorad

And advocates only for the outside where there really is something to be proud of.

Here I have been worried recently the answer to such a question - and what are the successes? Sanctions were lifted from Russia, all its actions are recognized all over the world, the number of allies has increased, GDP visits are welcome everywhere, etc. ??? what is successful in foreign policy ?? open your eyes

[alicante11]

Russia lifted sanctions,

Is lifting the sanctions a "success" for us? Don't you understand that the sanctions will be lifted only from the corpse of Russia?

all her actions are recognized all over the world,

Well, if you count in "people", then only China and India provide most of the world. And to consider as a "world" dwarfs singing along with amers, it is too stupid.

increased allies

Russia, like any Great Power, can have only two allies - the army and the Navy, well, you can still have a third - the Air Force. And the rest can only be satellites.

Izita GDP are welcome everywhere, etc.

And where are "not happy" about the visit of VVP? The G-7? When together - yes, but separately - even in Fashington they accepted it.

[afdjhbn67]

Quote: alicante11

Russia, like any Great Power, can have only two allies - the army and the Navy, well, you can still have a third - the Air Force. And the rest can only be satellites.

I understand that throwing slogans out of touch with reality and not only the official figures, but also the statements of the first persons of the state - this is apparently in your understanding - patriotism.
Just how many times do not say halva, it will not become sweeter in the mouth.

So, I didn’t start creating - Sasha’s well said ...
Moreover, I did not see a sane answer, I will give dada ((

[Al1977]

Quote: ImperialKolorad

Do not lie completely recklessly. At least Solovyov is bonfiring both in the tail and mane of the current economic policy. And advocates only for the outside where there really is something to be proud of.

I’m not saying that he approves and what does not. I'm talking about the fact that for the majority (IMHO) of our population, First and Solovyov are the only rating agencies that are trustworthy.))) Well, everyone believes them, but we don’t believe Americans, and that’s not all. When they said that we were second in the armaments market, they believed the same, and if they said that we were the coolest in the world, they would all the more believe it. And everything else is a blatant lie)) Without irony))))

[Imperialkolorad]

Quote: atalef

mk competition means improving the quality of services.

Namely, dear, agencies with real ratings will appear and this will have to behave humanly.

[atalef]

Quote: ImperialKolorad

Quote: atalef

mk competition means improving the quality of services.

Namely, dear, it is the agencies that will appear.

Yes, I’m only for, let him appear as much as possible, with a good reputation and high professionalism.

Quote: ImperialKolorad

with real ratings

I believe that the forecast for the Russian economy at the level of BBB- (obligations below average quality with a negative forecast) is absolutely normal and real.
Do you have a different opinion?

[Senior manager]

A finance lender understands a priori in the economy, so he should be guided by the economic parameters of the borrower. Affiliated rating agencies do not give a real picture of the borrower. Changes will occur and necessarily, for Russia positive.

[atalef]

Quote: St. Propulsion

A lender with finances understands a priori in the economy, so he should be guided by the economic parameters of the borrower

Not necessary . borrowers sea. deal with everyone and get an objective assessment - you will tear your pants. For this, there are credit agencies (more precisely, determining a credit rating).
Do you think these results and the like climb into the company themselves and forcibly push in their ratings?
the company itself calls them and asks for a rating, for one simple reason - without a credit history and rating, it will not be able to get a loan or get it at the highest risk percent.
Any company has the opportunity to contact any of the 3 leading agencies. You yourself understand that the presence of 3 implies some competition and objectivity in this case. Therefore, banks trust them.

[ruAlex]

The presence of three agencies does not imply anything, they make a reservation and put what is needed.

[Al1977]

Quote: ruAlex

The presence of three agencies does not imply anything, they make a reservation and put what is needed.

This is in Russian))) We need to create our own agency and it will give us the rating of a super-reliable superpower, and America will be garbage there))) And that's it, money will flow like a river. Simple as that )))

[alicante11]

This is in Russian))) We need to create our own agency and it will give us the rating of a super-reliable superpower, and America will be garbage there))) And that's it, money will flow like a river. Simple as that )))

This is not in Russian, this is in American. We only study diligently.

[abrakadabre]

Sounds pretty ridiculous.

[Imperialkolorad]

Quote: atalef

Not necessary . borrowers sea. deal with everyone and get an objective assessment - you will tear your pants. For this, there are credit agencies (more precisely, determining a credit rating).
Do you think these results and the like climb into the company themselves and forcibly push in their ratings?
the company itself calls them and asks for a rating, for one simple reason - without a credit history and rating, it will not be able to get a loan or get it at the highest risk percent.
Any company has the opportunity to contact any of the 3 leading agencies. You yourself understand that the presence of 3 implies some competition and objectivity in this case. Therefore, banks trust them.

Do not believe organizations lending at the state level have analytical departments no weaker than Fitch. This rating alone can serve as a black mark, that the Black master is angry if this mark is ignored.

[atalef]

Quote: ImperialKolorad

Do not believe organizations lending at the state level have analytical departments no weaker than Fitch

This is evident in the simply stunning financial success of state corporations.

Quote: ImperialKolorad

This rating alone can serve as a black mark, that the Black master is angry if this mark is ignored.

Yes ? strange, but does the black gentleman forbid Russia to invest in its own economy?

[alicante11]

This is evident in the simply stunning financial success of state corporations.

And what do you dislike about the success of state corporations? Is Rosneft or Gazprom already bankrupt? Agricultural holdings all gone broke? Russian Railways breathing incense? still depends on the economic situation. This is me about aviation and shipbuilding.

Yes ? strange, but does the black gentleman forbid Russia to invest in its own economy?

Prohibits, but its prohibition bypass :).

[Imperialkolorad]

Quote: atalef

This is evident in the simply stunning financial success of state corporations.

Well, what works. Some people don’t even have a lot of money, but a lot of . Your Chubais is working there, by the way.

Quote: atalef

Yes ? strange, but does the black gentleman forbid Russia to invest in its own economy?

This is actually a very interesting question. It is not so easy to answer. It is visible to the naked eye that there are a bunch of agents of influence and outright traitors sitting there. But that's why their uncle Vova does not drive and is not understood. Moreover, in foreign policy, a completely distinct team and actions. Maybe you have any ideas 7

[Sarmat149]

Forever you wrong)))

[Hon]

Quote: atalef

Rating agencies - this is not what this or that country wants, but what the companies and states that give loans believe, the country of which does not need to take loans - these drum ratings are a priori.
And now a simple question, who will force me (the creditor) to believe in someone whom I do not know and have never worked with, and even more so who have no (at the moment) reputation - I mean the newly created rating agencies, where a guarantee that they will not be politically engaged?
Here the reputation develops over the years and at the request of a country nothing changes.
So in my understanding - a simple air shock Everything will remain as it was, at least for the next 10 years

we will have our own rating agencies, with blackjack and whores

[Arbogast]

Quote: Hon

we will have our own rating agencies, with blackjack and whores

Yeah current, here you (the Russian Federation) are going to receive money from them, and accordingly they will be guided by their rating agencies ..
Now, if they borrowed from you (ie Russia), then your "with blackjack and whores"

[Vadim237]

The conclusions of rating agencies are purely superficial in nature and their conclusions can be neglected, and given the recent not serious decisions regarding the ratings of some countries, business listens less and less to these agencies - people themselves analyze where they are better off investing.

[siberalt]

It turns out that some foreign fortune-tellers contribute to the growth of our economy?
All these ratings are bullshit and work for their customers.

[vlad_vlad]

the article is just complete nonsense. A person generally does not understand anywhere how rating agencies work.

you can make someone afraid of yourself, you can force someone to do something - but it’s NOT possible to force yourself or by law to force yourself to love.

Rating agencies are valid only as long as they are believed and as long as they are independent. The maximum that can be achieved from them by "force" is that they will completely withdraw the rating. and this is even worse ..

[Colonel]

Quote: vlad_vlad

the article is just complete nonsense.

Quote: vlad_vlad

Rating agencies are only valid as long as they are trusted and while they are independent

but we, as a global company that must comply with US laws,

Sorry for the many quotes.

[vlad_vlad]

Well?
Any company operating in the USA must comply with US laws. This applies to Russia and other countries. But in the US there is no law requiring a rating company to put ratings in one way or another.

UTB is the same crazy idea how to pass a law stating that all Mercedes cars are good, and the rest are go ... but.

[alicante11]

Any company operating in the USA must comply with US laws. This applies to Russia and other countries.

And this company works not only in the USA, but also in Russia and other countries. But he respects the laws of Amer, and leaves the Russian.

But in the US there is no law requiring a rating company to put ratings in one way or another.

It turns out - there is, once the fuss has risen. Probably very secret.

UTB is the same crazy idea how to pass a law stating that all Mercedes cars are good, and the rest are go ... but.

But SSHA is generally a delusional country. Prints unsecured bucks in trillions, driving the global economy into crises.

[Colonel]

Quote: vlad_vlad

any company operating in the US must comply with US laws

Don't walk away. And here Mercedes? If the head of an "independent" company disowns the laws of one country (in which the company operates) and recalls the need to comply with the laws of another country (of which he is a representative), then what kind of independence can we talk about?

[alicante11]

A person generally does not understand anywhere how rating agencies work.

You don't understand how "rating agencies" work. After all, it is written in black and white that they themselves speak of dependence on the USA. And how then can you trust them to someone other than the USA?

[atalef]

Quote: alicante11

You don't understand how "rating agencies" work. After all, it is written in black and white that they themselves talk about dependence on the USA

Give a quote

Quote: alicante11

. And how then can they be trusted by anyone other than the USA?

Standard & Poors - a rating agency, one of the "Big Three" along with Moody's and Fitch Rating, has its history since 1860
Moody's - a rating agency that is part of the "Big Three" along with Fitch Ratings and Standard & Poors; founded in 1909
Fitch Ratings is a rating agency that is in the Big Three along with Moody's and Standard & Poors. It has two headquarters - in New York and London, as well as 51 representative offices. The staff has 1 employees. The ratings are assigned to 500 financial institutions, 3 banks, 100 insurance companies, 1 corporations, 600 states and 1 municipalities. The company has existed since 400 as a rating agency.

[alicante11]

Give a quote

but we, as a global company, which must comply with US laws, are placed in a situation where, in the event of the imposition of sanctions against Russian clients, we violate either Russian or international legislation

And what's your quote? I did not say that they did not trust. I do not understand how they CAN be trusted. But in a monopoly capitalist economy, there is no more logic than in the delirium of a madman. Yesterday, about potatoes rising in price in the cellar, a good example was given.

[vlad_vlad]

yeah ... how lousy it is ...

1. I don’t know what the USA means, probably a derogatory name for Americans?
2. where is it written what they themselves say about dependence on amers? Volodin? I believe right away ...
3. The rating agency expresses its private opinion: do not want - do not believe. But experience (the son of difficult mistakes) suggests that there are 3-4 agencies in the world that most investors believe.

I want to see how you, Americans, Russia, or even someone can make some investor believe or not.

You can be made to believe by some law that Serdukov (or whatever his name is) is a cool manager and he needs to be given money for investment?

[alicante11]

1. I don’t know what the USA means, probably a derogatory name for Americans?

North American United States.

2. where is it written what they themselves say about dependence on amers? Volodin? I believe right away.

Questions of faith I do not discuss. But there is a translation of the words of a rating agency official.

I want to see how you, Americans, Russia, or even someone can make some investor believe or not.

The mechanism is called "PR".

You can be made to believe by some law that Serdukov (or whatever his name is) is a cool manager and he needs to be given money for investment?

Of course, if they shoot for the opposite, I believe, sincerely and almost sincerely.

[vlad_vlad]

Of course, if they shoot for the opposite, I believe, sincerely and almost sincerely.

put it for you plus

But seriously?

[alicante11]

But seriously?

So I'm serious. If a person or organization does not have the means and brains for analytics, then he is forced to believe someone. And there are a lot of such "believers". But these games of trust always end very badly. I brought some claims of "defrauded depositors" to the atalef.

[alicante11]

And now a simple question, who will force me (the creditor) to believe in someone whom I do not know and have never worked with, and even more so who have no (at the moment) reputation - I mean the newly created rating agencies, where a guarantee that they will not be politically engaged?

Well, Western agencies do not have such a guarantee. And for trust, but not of yours, but of most investors, the trust of the Chinese - that is, the first economy of the world - will be enough. So here it is somehow.

Here the reputation develops over the years and at the request of a country nothing changes.

Reputation develops over the years and even centuries, and is lost at a time.

[Lieutenant Izhe]

I put you a PLUS, although I do not quite agree (well, in defiance of the patriotically exalted idiots)))
1. Who do you think SHOULD invest in Russia, and in which sectors of the economy?
If to nationalize NON-USE, then ...
"something" still remains for private business, and NOT SMALL!)
2. Why Russia PRIVATE oil and gas-subsoil users, if 80% of the revenue from THIS is exported from the country and goes to support the economies of unfriendly states?
3.Germans, Japanese, Koreans, French, Chinese, etc. will they refuse to invest in ENGINEERING, "medicine", trade networks, processing industry WITHOUT RATINGS of foreign agencies? (Obama "tore the Russian economy to shreds", and ... foreign rating agencies readily confirmed this, and the leaders of Western states very quietly ask Putin to REDUCE Russian SANCTIONS for their countries!)))
4. (CENTER-) The banking and financial sector of Russia is SLAVEST, restraining the development of the Russian economy with unscrupulous greed! So you need to modernize it and restore order ... One of the steps in this direction is this law!)
5. Russia must independently and INDEPENDENTLY solve the problems of its own financial system and economy, then its attractiveness for foreign investors will WEAKLY depend on the estimates of foreign rating agencies.

[Al1977]

Quote: Lieutenant Izhe

Germans, Japanese, Koreans, French, Chinese, etc. will they refuse to invest in ENGINEERING, "medicine", trade networks, processing industry WITHOUT RATINGS of foreign agencies?

Even our government does not want to invest our money with you, investing it in US securities. As many here write, we are actually at war. And money loves silence. They will invest in China, the Chinese do not care for the Syrian brothers and Turks. They are busy with work.

[alicante11]

Even our government does not want to invest our money with you, investing it in US securities.

First, not only in "US paper", but also in gold. Well, there is not so much gold on the market, what can you do. And there are no more liquid assets that can be quickly exchanged for gold. Well, China does not borrow, what can you do?

[Lieutenant Izhe]

Even our government does not want to invest our money with you, investing it in US securities.

well, our current government is not able to fully develop our own economy (for a number of SUBJECTIVE reasons), so it invests where there is less loss and more stability + OPERATIONAL return on investment !! ...

[Lieutenant Izhe]

PS Speculative investments in stocks and derivatives, of course, have a certain impact on the country's economy, however .... IS IT ALWAYS POSITIVE ??

[Imperialkolorad]

What does the desire or unwillingness of any country? I don’t understand at all who takes into account the ratings of agencies that are guided over and over again by clearly political rather than economic prerequisites. He who has eyes will see and will be guided by his thought and not at all by the statements of the illogically motivated gentlemen from all kinds of Fits.

[Imperialkolorad]

I would like to add a touch not on the economy, but on a much more understandable and close topic to me - Ukraine. Somehow I was looking at the rating of one of such agencies regarding freedom of journalism. And oh gods there, Nezalezhnaya stands above Russia. I can understand a lot, however, a country with severe censorship and tightly controlled unanimity, where journalists are not only imprisoned, but also killed, where our channels are banned for political reasons, where lies are poured by Niagara Falls above Karl RF. I have long looked askance at these rating writers for a long time - this was the last straw.

[gladcu2]

atalef

You put it well on reputation. But this is from the area when someone borrows and promises to return it tomorrow, and when they refuse it, then indignation follows: "Don't you believe me?"

[kig]

Since the ratings of rating agencies cause conflicting opinions among professional economists, this means that these professionals have not yet developed a common opinion. Therefore, it is necessary to start with them - to pass a law prohibiting having many opinions.

[atalef]

Quote: kig

Since the ratings of rating agencies cause conflicting opinions among professional economists, this means that these professionals have not yet developed a common opinion. Therefore, it is necessary to start with them - to pass a law prohibiting having many opinions.

Oh, a good idea, but a better law is that everyone is obliged to take a word - just because ... well, like that.

[alicante11]

Oh, a good idea, but a better law is that everyone is obliged to take a word - just because ... well, like that.

So in the article about this it is said that rating agencies are subject only to the laws of the United States. What other questions?

[atalef]

Quote: alicante11

So in the article about this it is said that rating agencies are subject only to the laws of the United States. What other questions?

What laws?

[alicante11]

What laws?

Probably cruel, once obey. And if you want specifics, then ask the source.

[atalef]

Quote: alicante11

What laws?

Probably cruel, once obey. And if you want specifics, then ask the source.

As always slipped from the answer.
So I asked
They say they don’t obey any laws. The fifth constitutional amendment is freedom of speech.

[alicante11]

As always slipped from the answer.

Didn't jump off. And the answer is not mine, but the campaign representative.

[Colonel]

Quote: atalef

The fifth constitutional amendment is freedom of speech.

This is not necessary here, otherwise I would like to either recall Assange or Snowden, so as not to dig deeper.

[valent45]

And why do we need such rating agencies, in fact, State Department? Abamka again extended us sanctions
for another year. And do not be afraid that the new rating agency being created with China will be
so politically engaged. And where are not engaged?

[atalef]

Quote: valent45

And do not be afraid that the new rating agency being created with China will be
so politically engaged.

No need to be afraid, that's for sure.
You generally understand that ratings generally do not oblige anyone to anything.
It is your personal business (of the creditor) to believe it or not. No one is worth it and doesn’t force it. This is a reputation earned over decades.
But why do they believe it? Probably because there is a reason.

[Suhov]

Quote: atalef

But why do they believe it? Probably because there is a reason.

But why are they driven? Probably because there is a reason.
Money, ratings, loans, debt repayment, etc. it's all a matter of trust. And here even a small lie gives rise to great distrust. You don't have to go far for examples of scams from these "impeccably honest" agencies. Some are already presented here.

[alicante11]

But why do they believe it? Probably because there is a reason.

Because you don’t want to think for yourself.

[Imperialkolorad]

To believe or not to believe is everyone’s business, but this does not exempt from the moral responsibility of rating agencies for outright lies and undisguised forgery.

[atalef]

Quote: ImperialKolorad

To believe or not to believe is everyone’s business, but this does not exempt from the moral responsibility of rating agencies for outright lies and undisguised forgery.

there has never been a recorded case of forgery or intentional fraud of facts.
You generally understand, all the work of these agencies rests on only one thing - trust, customer trust. Here the line in the relationship is so thin that only a suspicion of an unclean game will immediately put an end to this agency.
maybe agencies do not lose money.
Rating agencies are like a newspaper, do you start buying it, knowing in advance that all correspondents are bought and its articles are not worth a damn?
So it is here.

[alicante11]

there has never been a recorded case of forgery or intentional fraud of facts.

Oh well, okay, I brought the links.

[atalef]

Quote: alicante11

there has never been a recorded case of forgery or intentional fraud of facts.

Oh well, okay, I brought the links.

Well, where is it about the forgery and intentional distortion of facts? Point a finger?

[alicante11]

So more intelligible than with links?

Standard & Poor's accused of cheating Australian investors

Illinois attorney's office sues Standard & Poor's for defrauding investors

According to the CalPERS lawsuit, the pension fund suffered losses in the amount of more than $ 1 billion as a result of "unfair actions" by rating agencies. CalPERS, in particular, claims to have bought long-term securities of Cheyne Finance LLC, Sigma Finance Inc and Stanfield Victoria Funding LLC for $ 1,3 billion.
According to representatives of the fund, these companies were assigned unreasonably high credit ratings to these companies. As a result, since 2007, CalPERS began to incur losses when the value of securities of these companies began to fall in value. The amount of compensation that CalPERS intends to recover from rating agencies is not specified, reports the Associated Press.

The financial crisis broke out in the United States largely due to the close relationship of companies with leading rating agencies - Moody's and Standard & Poor's. The latter covered the financial sector that was going into negative territory, maintaining the illusion that everything is in order for the companies they value

Connecticut and "a number of other US states" are joining Ohio's lawsuit against the rating companies Standard & Poor's, Moody's and Fitch for over-rating bonds, which caused Ohio's pension funds to suffer losses of $ 457 million.

[atalef]

Quote: alicante11

Standard & Poor's accused of cheating Australian investors

Quote: alicante11

Illinois attorney's office sues Standard & Poor's for defrauding investors

Everything is fine, they blamed, blamed, blamed - but what did they prove in court?
We are all thrilled to throw accusations, I ask again - is the fact of intentional conspiracy and intentional fraud proved?
Everything else relates to professional competence, this agency gives a rating FORECAST - the economy is not the highest mathematics, far from everything is based on numbers and everyone can make mistakes, otherwise these agencies themselves would be multimillionaires.
In the general outline, their forecasts are trusted and they have been on the market for more than 140-150 years.
If you didn’t believe. - would have gone bankrupt long ago.

[alicante11]

Everything is fine, they blamed, blamed, blamed - but what did they prove in court?

Australian Federal Court finds Standard & Poor's rating agency guilty of cheating and misleading investors in 2006

http://ru.astapovlawyers.com/publications/736-finansovye-rejtingi-uxodyat-v-pros

hloe.html

In the general outline, their forecasts are trusted and they have been on the market for more than 140-150 years.
If you didn’t believe. - would have gone bankrupt long ago.

So I really argue. Just wondering.

FORECAST - economics is not higher mathematics

This is not math at all, but a crook and a hoax.

[rpek32]

extremely funny, given that in February debt papers again (or whatever this canoe is called) were taken from the United States.

[Nicholas]

Why Russia does not trust rating agencies buys US government bonds. Or trust?

[Imperialkolorad]

For Kudrin, but his work lives on.

[alicante11]

Why Russia does not trust rating agencies buys US government bonds. Or trust?

Suggest what to buy. From what is sold and liquid?

[Al1977]

Quote: valent45

And why do we need such rating agencies, in fact, State Department?

Why do we need State Department dollars?

[alicante11]

Why do we need State Department dollars?

To give back then sell them when they will give corporate debt.

[atalef]

Quote: alicante11

Why do we need State Department dollars?

To give back then sell them when they will give corporate debt.

And whose corporate debt is this?
What kind of corporations?

[alicante11]

And whose corporate debt is this?
What kind of corporations? wink

Private for which the state is not responsible.

[atalef]

Quote: alicante11

And whose corporate debt is this?
What kind of corporations? wink

Private for which the state is not responsible.

Alik, how many times do you need to send to Google?

The external debt of the Russian Federation, according to the Central Bank, in January amounted to $ 599,5 billion - at the current rate, this is about 50% of the country's GDP. By itself, this figure is not considered critical, especially since modest 41,5 billion fall on public debt itself
Thus, the Central Bank of the Russian Federation in the structure of external liabilities allocates the so-called “external debt of the public sector in an expanded definition”, which, in addition to state loans, includes foreign loans of “those banks and non-banking corporations in which the government and the central bank directly or indirectly own 50 and more interest in capital or control them in another way. "

For example, on October 1, 2014, the external public debt in the expanded definition amounted to $ 351 billion - more than half of the total external debt at that time. This means that the lion's share of all foreign currency obligations was once assumed by the largest corporations with state participation, so this kind of debt cannot be called pure corporate.

“The root of today's misfortune is the wrong decisions that led to structural distortions,” said Sergey Romanchuk, an analyst at Metallinvestbank. The private oil sector with foreign participation was replaced by the state with Russian participation at the expense of the state debt. It was a bad management decision. But at that time it was the cornerstone of the state’s economic policy. ”

The main part of the debt is the debts of state corporations, Alik
State corporations, you know why they are called Gos ....? Certainly not for beautiful eyes
http://www.novayagazeta.ru/economy/67649.html

[alicante11]

Alik, how many times do you need to send to Google?

The main part of the debt is the debts of state corporations, Alik

Do not send me to google. The state is not liable for the debts of state corporations. Take any charter and read. Not a single founder is liable for the debts of the enterprise.

State corporations, you know why they are called Gos ....? Certainly not for beautiful eyes

Exclusively for the amount of public funds in the authorized capital, which allows you to put your CEO, but does not oblige to answer for debts.

[atalef]

Quote: alicante11

Why do we need State Department dollars?

To give back then sell them when they will give corporate debt.

And whose corporate debt is this?
What kind of corporations?

[sa-zz]

"Moody", that is, eggs. Therefore, Moody's is more about the rating of poultry farms, the maximum

[abrakadabre]

Actually moody:
1) easily mood-changing
2) dull, gloomy; in a bad mood
Which, as it were, hints at the quality of the ratings. In Russian it sounds like "klikusha".

Well, according to your logical chain .. In this context, it is rather to the urologist. And the expression "shake (or show off) credit ratings" acquires a quite interesting analogue - "shake the mood"

[Pig]

As soon as the rating agency refuses to assign ratings to any significant company in the international market, one can give up on such an agency. They are trying to scare these ghouls, but the processes have already begun, Russian and Russian-Chinese agencies will simply kick out all this hypocritical rot from the international rating market, and even there will be no memories.

[atalef]

Quote: Pig

As soon as the rating agency refuses to assign ratings to any significant company in the international market, one can give up on such an agency

Any company is directly interested in assigning a credit rating to it and will give all the relevant information for this because, without knowing its audit rating, no one will give it a loan.

Quote: Pig

They are trying to take these ghouls at a fright, but the processes have already been launched, Russian and Russian-Chinese agencies will simply kick out all this hypocritical rot from the international rating market, and even there will be no memories.

Maybe yes, maybe no.
Here only time will tell.
Reputation is not a day of work and not a beautiful sign above the entrance.

[Pig]

""Maybe yes, maybe no""
if Russia were alone then yes - you could still guess ... it is clear that this instrument of US influence pulled everyone up and they decided to "blame" it ...
whales and ours are already muddying "their agency" - for everyone who has problems with features and mudises;)
This is the most unpleasant thing for features - an alternative - because features can work effectively only with their complete monopoly backed by the power of the "hegemon"
and as soon as an alternative center of power appears, all these "international rating agencies" with their head office on Wall Street turn into pet dogs which everyone starts kicking ...

[atalef]

Quote: Pig

maybe yes or maybe no ""
if Russia were alone then yes - you could still guess ... it is clear that this instrument of US influence pulled everyone up and they decided to "blame" it ...

and who else is against? China?
I remember his objections to lowering the credit rating (in the first quarter of last year, although the Chinese agency put a junk rating on the states and the highest in China and Russia), so who was right?

[Pig]

ek you my friend turned down: "in the first quarter of last year"))) how much has already happened this year and you are all about the last ... you still remember in 2008 when they put up all bankrupts aaa +;)
features are digging their own grave with their dashing "ratings" and if a year ago the question was not like that, now it is a reality - they slowly begin to "squeeze out" ... well, or force them to play by "sovereign" rules (and this is suicide for a feature in its current form)

[atalef]

Quote: Pig

ek you my friend turned down: "in the first quarter of last year"))) how much has already happened this year and you are all about the last

This is professionalism, rating agencies already said in the first quarter of last year. that China’s economy is overheating, the first fall began in October. Well, in December - January there was a collapse. Everything is correct. I would give them 9 agencies 0 for this prediction only applauded.

Quote: Pig

features are digging their own grave with their dashing "ratings"

their services are used exclusively by banks. at that moment when they (the banks) feel that they’re getting on them, nobody will need their services.

[Pig]

"" already in the first quarter of last year they said. that the Chinese economy is overheated, the first drops began in October ""
those. statements features provoked a fall! Who would doubt that...
"" "at the moment when they (banks) feel that they are being driven to get along - their services will not be needed by anyone" ""
which banks are these? like "Lehman Brothers" who was exposed to aaa + before the crash?)))
what do you mean by "crap" then ???

[alicante11]

I remember his objections to lowering the credit rating (in the first quarter of last year, although the Chinese agency put a junk rating on the states and the highest in China and Russia), so who was right?

Of course, the Chinese. We and they do not have such a public debt as the amers. Well, let's say our GDP is small, so among the Chinese it is already higher than the Amersky one. What does it mean, not games on the stock exchange, but real production. How can I put Amers rating higher than the Chinese. You are entrenched, gentlemen of the capitalists.

[Al1977]

Quote: alicante11

Of course, the Chinese. We and they do not have such a public debt as the amers. Well, let's say our GDP is small, so among the Chinese it is already higher than the Amersky one. What does it mean, not games on the stock exchange, but real production. How can I put Amers rating higher than the Chinese. You are entrenched, gentlemen of the capitalists.

And why is our government investing in US papers and not China?

[alicante11]

And why is our government investing in US papers and not China?

So because China does not take. He has a lot of reserves. Would occupy, would invest in China.

[atalef]

Quote: alicante11

So because China does not take. He has a lot of reserves. Would occupy, would invest in China

Alik,
China issues debt

China's Ministry of Finance will continue to issue RMB government bonds in Hong Kong. This was confirmed today by the head of the department, Lou Jiwei, at a press conference at the annual session of the All-China People's Congress / NPC /.

At present, the Ministry of Finance has issued more than 100 billion yuan of this type of obligation in Xiangang, and the balance of operations with them is about 80 billion yuan, the minister said.

According to him, Hong Kong was chosen for the issue of GDO because: firstly, Hong Kong ranks first in terms of the use of RMB outside mainland China, and secondly, Hong Kong is part of the territory of our country, one of its two Special Administrative areas.

so why not invest (RF) in the yuan !!!!! Your version

[alicante11]

Alik,
China issues debt

Hmm, he was wrong.

so why not invest (RF) in the yuan !!!!! Your version

But what if China devalues ​​its currency too? Americans do not drop the buck yet.

[afdjhbn67]

Quote: atalef

Reputation is not a day of work and not a beautiful sign above the entrance.

And the presence of a direct line with the Kremlin

[atalef]

Quote: afdjhbn67

Quote: atalef

Reputation is not a day of work and not a beautiful sign above the entrance.

And the presence of a direct line with the Kremlin

only Western banks and investors have to believe it.

[alicante11]

only Western banks and investors have to believe it.

Yes figs with them, let them crush their bucks. Now we pay off on corporate debts and hammer a big bolt on these agencies and on loans.

[Mikhail m]

Rating agencies have long been instruments of "soft power" in the hands of the United States. Squeezing this "test" out of Russia is a very dangerous precedent for the states. The fight promises to be very serious. We must wait soon for an information wave with screeching and intimidation.

[valent45]

atalef, but do you yourself understand that the ratings of agencies, especially the State Department,
affect the investment of countries, especially those that do not fit into state policies?
And why are such rating agencies needed? Drive them all out of the country with a filthy broom!

[atalef]

Quote: valent45

atalef, but do you yourself understand that the ratings of agencies, especially the State Department,
affect the investment of countries, especially those that do not fit into state policies?

Investment is affected by the state of the economy and political stability.
Someone will say that Russia is now favorable for investment? I will be surprised.
Is there a political component in this - of course. Russia under sanctions and investing in it is problematic and what do you think the agencies should say? (I don’t touch on the general state of the economy).
Keep investing? Is that a parallel universe?
I have never seen. that a country with a great economy. indicators and a stable political environment. downgraded.
Do not agree ? Give an example.

Quote: valent45

And why are such rating agencies needed? Drive them all out of the country with a filthy broom!

why drive? Do not call.
they don’t come by themselves. they are invited.
You see - INVITE. give documentation and assist in every way for an objective assessment.

[alicante11]

I have never seen. that a country with a great economy. indicators and a stable political environment. downgraded.
Do not agree ? Give an example.

Russia, China, which feed, dress and heat half the world and at the same time have a low rating.

[atalef]

Quote: alicante11

Russia, China, which feed, dress and heat half the world and at the same time have a low rating

Alik, you’re not a child, it’s good to write nonsense already, epaulets are already appropriate, I hope you don’t need any pluses anymore - I’m not banned in Google.
Take an interest, do not lower your intellectual rating by these posts.

[alicante11]

Take an interest, do not lower your intellectual rating by such posts.

Alexander, I wish you the same. No need to treat my ears. The economy of the West is based on trade and gambling. Take industry percentages of GDP, I’m already tired of bringing them. You are not banned in google either, probably.

[atalef]

Quote: alicante11

Alexander, I wish you the same. No need to treat my ears. The economy of the West is based on trade and gambling

It is clear that everything real is made in China and Russia, and they sell it back to Russia and China from the west.
I especially like your post about the game on the stock exchange, have you played it at least once?

[alicante11]

It is clear that everything real is made in China and Russia, and they sell it back to Russia and China from the west.

It’s good that you understand it.

I especially like your post about the game on the stock exchange, have you played it at least once?

But what if I played on the stock exchange, I would see that there are produced real goods?

[Ros 56]

It’s time, it should have been done back in 2000. Some kind of mess that the devil knows where, using the data taken from nowhere gives estimates of the state of the economy of that and other states. Indeed, in fact, this is just one of the types of propaganda processing the global information field. To whom it is beneficial, we know very well. And note that the ratings of the country with the largest debt in the world at almost 20 trillion green rubles are at a high level. Therefore, I am two-handed. Either work honestly, or you weren’t here.

[atalef]

Quote: Ros 56

Some kind of mess that the devil knows where, using the data taken from nowhere gives estimates of the state of the economy of that and other states.

are you sure this is so What companies themselves do not submit documentation for a rating?

Quote: Ros 56

To whom it is beneficial, we know very well. And note that the ratings of the country with the largest debt in the world at almost 20 trillion green rubles are at a high level.

The problem is not in debt. and in the ability to serve him

Quote: Ros 56

Therefore, I am two-handed. Either work honestly, or you weren’t here.

[alicante11]

The problem is not in debt. and in the ability to serve him

Well, the Americans are not able to service it without gaining other debts. Which all grow and grow. That is, the United States, in principle, even with the current level of its speculative GDP, cannot service this debt. And if you look at the real sector ...

[Imperialkolorad]

Quote: atalef

are you sure this is so What companies themselves do not submit documentation for a rating?

Even if they provide it like that, why does Russia have a garbage rating, why did the above-mentioned companies, who had rested in a Bose, had the highest up to ruin? Do not see the contradictions?

[alicante11]

Even if they provide it like that, why does Russia have a garbage rating, why did the above-mentioned companies, who had rested in a Bose, had the highest up to ruin? Do not see the contradictions?

Doesn't see, they were brazenly deceived, provided incorrect information. And there is no need to check, they are trusted and they trust, this is called "a divorce on trust".

[Volga Cossack]

they got - especially - Levada ........... type ratings - yeah - we know by whose direction.

[ProtectRusOrDie]

Good news, thanks. I spat out my shoulder for luck.

[atalef]

Quote: Oden280

These companies did not deceive anyone. Rating agencies live on the money of these companies,

as I understand it, you came up with it now? or do you have any facts?

Quote: Oden280

live by permission of the government of ai and will put out such ratings as they are told.

Kindergarten

[Imperialkolorad]

Quote: atalef

Quote: Oden280
live by permission of the government of ai and will put out such ratings as they are told.

Kindergarten

The harsh truth of life.

[alicante11]

tales of the first channel.

Yes FIG. Here, first-hand, as they say.

[atalef]

Quote: ImperialKolorad

Quote: atalef

Quote: Oden280
live by permission of the government of ai and will put out such ratings as they are told.

Kindergarten

The harsh truth of life.

tales of the first channel.

[Imperialkolorad]

Quote: atalef

tales of the first channel.

Well, you remember. I don’t know who, besides housewives and pensioners, is watching this first channel .

[Oden280]

Of course, these companies simply tricked the rating agencies into providing false information. After that, changes were made in the rating agencies and the information began to be collected from a much larger number of sources.

These companies did not deceive anyone. Rating agencies live on the money of these companies, live by the permission of the government and will put up such ratings as they are told. And all the talk about their independence and impartiality is in for suckers.

[ImPerts]

By virtue of this comes into 2017, various rating agencies have another year. I will neither make predictions nor give predictions. Time will tell.
At one time, the United States showed its interest in good ratings when they connected the court to pressure on the agency, which was an obvious demonstration of who the boss is in the house.
Someone will say that they can, they are the United States ... This is the corner from which we must dance.

[atalef]

Quote: ImPerts

At one time, the United States showed its interest in good ratings when they connected the court to pressure on the agency, which was an obvious demonstration of who the boss is in the house.

May I have a link to the news? I have not heard of this. what would the US sue

[alicante11]

http://pravo.ru/interpravo/news/view/44408/

It turns out that these agencies generally simply voice their opinions and are not responsible for it ... by decision of the Amer court.

http://pravo.ru/interpravo/news/view/59115/

As soon as the rating of the USA was downgraded, it immediately turned out that it was not good to trade in "inside information".

http://pravo.ru/interpravo/news/view/61188/

And Italians are not happy.

http://pravo.ru/interpravo/news/view/61843/

And the Australians were thrown.

http://pravo.ru/interpravo/news/view/67736/

And here is the Amer’s prosecutor’s office and was noted in court.

http://pravo.ru/interpravo/news/view/29605/

And again, the pension fund in the USA.

http://pravo.ru/interpravo/news/view/29060/

And here the Senate of the Fashingtonians said its word. There was only the State Department, the most impolite.

http://www.trust.ua/news/19011.html

But lawsuits from the states.

http://pravo.ru/interpravo/news/view/22864/

The Germans called on the rating officers to the Ordnung and Arbeiten. Why are Germans possible, but we are not kosher?

[atalef]

Quote: alicante11

It turns out that these agencies generally simply voice their opinions and are not responsible for it ... by decision of the Amer court

Of course, what else? They give a forecast, your business, you want to believe, you want to neither believe.
Nobody forces anyone, and as in any situation in the economy, there are a huge number of unknowns and variables.
The whole problem is that for a couple of inaccurate forecasts, there are hundreds of correct and even if not accurate in details, the direction of the vector is important in investments.
Have you ever invested in an exchange? I think not, then I would understand what I mean

Quote: alicante11

http://pravo.ru/interpravo/news/view/22864/

What is it all about? What violations?

[alicante11]

The whole problem is that for a couple of inaccurate forecasts, there are hundreds of correct and even if not accurate in details, the direction of the vector is important in investments.

This is not the problem. And the fact is that these "imprecise forecasts" may well be ordered. And here in the article the people directly says that the agencies will say what amers need, obey their laws.

Have you ever invested in an exchange? I think not, then I would understand what I mean

Because I did not invest, that I understand :).

What is it all about? What violations?

Forgot to read in Russian? Translator noona?

[Pvi1206]

The West used international rating agencies to exert political pressure on Russia. Therefore, the right decision was made to screw them.

[Al1977]

Quote: Pvi1206

Therefore, the right decision was made to screw them.

How are you going to "pinch" them? You can trust them or not. That's all.

[Belousov]

When countries with a national debt exceeding GDP are assigned the highest ratings by the countries, this is clearly sewn with white thread. And there is no need to sing here that "the point is not in the national debt, but in the ability to service it," since they serve it exclusively with the printing press and the heating up of the situation around the world. As you can see, these factors of "service" in no way related to market economic.
But these agencies have aroused alarm in the case - if a real competitor is obtained, then all their monopoly activities will collapse, there will be no more handouts from the country of states and large corporations. Have to work honestly, not by concepts.

[Geosun]

Quote: atalef

Rating agencies - this is not what this or that country wants, but what the companies and states that give loans believe, the country of which does not need to take loans - these drum ratings are a priori.

Here you are wrong. Large companies do not have the staff of analysts on the rating of certain borrowers, it is expensive, but enter into contracts or use the works of organizations recognized in this business. And many state or partially state financial organizations in their charter do not have the right to invest in low-rated securities. For example, pension funds of some countries do not have the right, by law, to hold bonds with a rating below a certain level

[atalef]

Quote: Geosun

Quote: atalef

Rating agencies - this is not what this or that country wants, but what the companies and states that give loans believe, the country of which does not need to take loans - these drum ratings are a priori.

Here you are wrong. Large companies do not have the staff of analysts on the rating of certain borrowers, it is expensive, but enter into contracts or use the works of organizations recognized in this business. And many state or partially state financial organizations in their charter do not have the right to invest in low-rated securities. For example, pension funds of some countries do not have the right, by law, to hold bonds with a rating below a certain level

Well, what am I talking about all the time? Companies turn to rating agencies to get a rating. They turn themselves, no one drags their eggs

[Taygerus]

it's high time, the main thing is not to jinx it, the article is correctly written either according to world laws (in the sense of unflatted) or go, well, they know the way ...

[vladimirvn]

Who are the judges? Don't worry so much about grades. We ourselves will give anyone an assessment. We must focus on other authorities. Calm down, it will make others worry.

[Cat man null]

I asked many times (both in VO, and in general) the question - what is "international legislation"? And everything is somehow .. unrequited

And here is such a gift:

Interfax translates a fragment of a statement by Ian Linnel:
Authorities are trying to surround the Russian financial system with a security ring. It can be understood, but we, as global a company that must comply with US lawsare put in a situation where, in the case of the imposition of sanctions against Russian clients violate either Russian or international law

Total: either I am a telephone box, or "international" law is US law.. at least - in the understanding of "international" organizations ..

About how

[Katman]

I absolutely agree with you. But my belief is that all this is a voice crying in the wilderness. We do not trust America, America does not trust us. If we believe that we are on the right path, we must go, gathering friends and attracting traitors of the enemy to achieve the goal. The truth immediately arises a question. Where are we going and what is the goal? PHILOSOPHY Brother! (I honestly did not expect that the word "democracy" would become swearing for me)

[Katman]

Uncle Vasya saw that his neighbor had a new car. I went to a neighboring bank and said that they shouldn’t give a loan to a neighbor, because the neighbor doesn’t drive this car. Ratings are needed for those who order them. Otherwise: whoever pays the girl dances her. Everything is simple.
By the way in the subject. Who says our president has a rating of over 80%? The same agencies. 80% of how many respondents and where? Moscow and Peter is not Russia! This is part of her. Surveying by phone or on the Internet is all the same if I ask my friends to say how good I am. Which question will be the answer. Want to have more money? -Yes. Do you have them? -no. Rating - 0%

[Begemot]

I read a couple of dozen posts and quit. The question is much deeper understanding by everyone, including me. On the one hand, it is necessary to destroy the American monopoly on control of world finances and trade, and in this sense such a step is absolutely justified, but on the other hand, it must be understood that such actions are a real war, and there are no losses in a war. The cost of letters of credit, guarantees that provide foreign trade depends on the level of risks, which are assessed on the basis of ratings. If there is no rating, then that China, the same India and Brazil and all the rest (not to mention sworn partners) will tear up increased commissions and demand the maximum coverage of risks. And this is an increase in costs and loss of competitiveness. In order to radically turn the tide, it is necessary to involve as many countries as possible, which will be very difficult to do, I can’t even imagine what needs to be done, especially looking at how the Customs Union is developing. So far, for such sharp gestures, a little strength is not enough, but with what you need to start, you can no longer endure this pack of jackals.

[Wolf]

whether to make your own rating company on this principle, it will also serve as a pyramid! Means the total reform in the global financial system is in need, with which sticks financial strength will not be in the hands of several names of bankers, but the state or state! This is a complex discussion and problem, and here, for a few words, it is not a matter of comment! :)

[Tambov Wolf]

It has long been known that these "agencies" are dancing to the American tune. Iran has always been under sanctions and has a rating below the baseboard, and as the sanctions were lifted, everyone rushed like jackals to snatch a piece. Here you have the "ratings."

[Weaving]

Personally, I am glad that I am sincerely glad that I live at a time when all these fighters of the political front show their true face and the true purpose of their existence. Until now, they have positioned themselves as the truth as the only broadcasters of the right economy. It has long been clear to everyone that there is no economy here, pure politics. And first, let them comply with Russian law or go through the woods.

[epsilon571]

Rating agencies are the weapons of lenders and politicians. Both of them are a lobbying element for the states and organizations for which they work.
Of course they are needed, but can they be completely trusted, that’s the question? Now let's look from the other side. Russia at the state level is going to introduce a rule for international agencies that assign ratings on the so-called national rating scale. It is a brilliant position, but does Russia have sufficient economic potential so that its representatives become full participants in the European markets that it has swung at?

Today, for the most part, we are borrowers, and although our credit history is impeccable, for bankers with impressive capital, we cannot claim equal rights, so our conditions are unacceptable to them today. Before dictating any conditions, Russia needs to outline a program of action and a course towards economic development, which our President has never mentioned before. This is rather suspicious, and first of all, not only for us, but also for our partners in the countries of the SCO and BRICS countries. Everything again, as you see, rests on the well-known question - Who are we and where are we going?

To thank and predict this ungrateful business, it reminds me of one of the poems by Dimarg Uzoltseff that he wrote in May 2008 and is still relevant today:

***
".. Will it be worse?
Or will it not?
And worse - will it be?

Will it be worse overall?
Or is it still not?

No, it won’t be worse.
In principle, it should not be worse.
But, nevertheless, if there is where,
That, perhaps, will still be worse.

Yes, in fact, it could be worse.
And that means, most likely, will be.
Conclusion: it will be worse.

Well, what if it doesn't get any worse?
Well, maybe it won’t.
But if I take this for installation,
That will definitely be worse.

That is, in any case, it will be worse.

May 14th, 2008

[atalef]

Quote: epsilon571

Rating agencies are the weapons of lenders and politicians. Both of them are a lobbying element for the states and organizations for which they work.

I do not agree, this could be true if the investments came from the country where the agency is located. but it’s absolutely not, rating agencies are located in the USA and London. and Italy and Germany have always been the main investor in the Russian Federation - is your explanation?

Quote: epsilon571

Today, for the most part, we are borrowers, and although our credit history is impeccable

For 20 years of 2 default and the fall of the national currency for the year by 2 times, --- is this your fault?

[alicante11]

rating agencies are located in the USA and London. and Italy and Germany have always been the main investor in the Russian Federation - is your explanation?

The EU and the United States can sway among themselves. But with regard to Russia and the position is one.

For 20 years of 2 default and the fall of the national currency for the year by 2 times, --- is this your fault?

It was a long time ago and it’s not true anymore, the Americans untied the buck from gold, but rating agencies do not remember this for a long time.

[padded jacket]

Quote: alicante11

For 20 years of 2 default and the fall of the national currency for the year by 2 times, --- is this your fault?

It was a long time ago and it’s not true anymore, the Americans untied the buck from gold, but rating agencies do not remember this for a long time.

In general, the default in Russia was one in 1998 under Yeltsin, and now the ruble has fallen due to sanctions against our country imposed by the USA and the EU.

[alicante11]

In general, the default in Russia was one in 1998 under Yeltsin, and now the ruble has fallen due to sanctions against our country imposed by the USA and the EU.

The authorities dropped the ruble in order to save gold reserves.

[Al1977]

Quote: alicante11

and now the ruble has fallen due to sanctions against our country imposed by the US and EU.

So I wonder how the sanctions dropped the Ruble? And this is at Putin’s words that isolating Russia is not possible, is it when the second world economy is friends, is it with all the BRICS and so on? That is, the raw material model of the economy has nothing to do with ??

[epsilon571]

For 20 years of 2 default and the fall of the national currency for the year by 2 times, --- is this your fault?

Russia, as the successor to the USSR (unlike other republics), has not abandoned its debts and obligations. She pays them in good faith, and today by and large, there are no complaints against her. Moreover, Russia forgives debts to others, although this is not always justified. And what you described primarily concerns the population of the country, i.e. us, what does this have to do with the international obligations of the State? At the expense of rating agencies, my situation is twofold. Italy and Germany today are not independent states, and their ratings in relation to us cannot be considered completely objective, they are dictated by the interests of the allies, and the main one is the United States. Otherwise, my conclusions are correct, it is necessary to develop the economy - their main one.

[alicante11]

Russia, as the successor to the USSR (unlike other republics), has not abandoned its debts and obligations.

For this, our rating will be lowered. Because "terpily", with such it is necessary to tear, not give :).

[kig]

Quote: atalef

The fifth constitutional amendment is freedom of speech.

The 5th amendment is not freedom of speech, it is “It states that a person accused of a crime is entitled to a due process of law, should not be held accountable twice for the same violation and should not be forced to testify against himself, and that the state“ has no right to seize private property without fair remuneration "

[atalef]

Quote: kig

Quote: atalef

The fifth constitutional amendment is freedom of speech.

The 5th amendment is not freedom of speech, it is “It states that a person accused of a crime is entitled to a due process of law, should not be held accountable twice for the same violation and should not be forced to testify against himself, and that the state“ has no right to seize private property without fair remuneration "

You are right, freedom of speech is the first constitutional amendment

[cdrt]

Rating agencies earn by giving potential creditors debtor reliability ratings.
Zhuvut, in fact, on his reputation. Fail - they will trust their ratings less, respectively, less sales.
It is clear that if sanctions are imposed against a country and its access to cheap loans is blocked, the risk that some of the enterprises under sanctions or the entire country is growing. This is reflected in the ranking.
How this legislation can be affected by the country being evaluated is a mystery.
Hence the conclusion, the law is ordinary populism.