Military Review

Hunting for the next Red October: a new Russian killer submarine (The National Interest, USA)

59
Hunting for the next Red October: a new Russian killer submarine (The National Interest, USA)



Although the submarine of the project 705 "Lira", better known here as "Alpha" (according to NATO classification - ed.), became famous, perhaps, as the main villain in the film “The Hunt for Red October”, in real life outside the television screen this ill-fated submarine left a hefty inheritance. And all this is due to the fact that the new generation of submarines launched by Moscow will be much more automated than the current ones, and this will be a continuation of the course that was started at the end of 70's in the Soviet Union while working on developing offensive submarines project 705 class "Lira".

Although the Alpha submarines from many sides were an unsuccessful experiment, new advanced technologies were tested for the first time in these submarines with titanium plating. The sturdy skin allowed them to reach amazing speeds — up to 45 nodes, as some sources report, and they could dive to impressive depths. In fact, the Lyra never dived to a depth of the order of 3900 feet: the operational dive was about 2000 feet. In addition, the submarines were relatively small, they displaced only 3200 tons during the dive.

In addition to the titanium hull - which in itself was already a gigantic innovation for that time - the Lyra class submarine had two more innovative details. One of them is a compact liquid metal cooled reactor that generates tremendous energy. In general, two types of lead-bismuth fast cooling reactor OK-550 and BM-40 were used in the "Lyre". Both produced about 155 megawatts of energy and gave the ship more 40000 horsepower. The result was incredible speed and power, achieved, however, at the cost of a high noise level (however, the submarine also had a pair of 100 kilowatts of electric propellers each for tactical maneuvering).

But the main innovation of "Lyra" was automation. Since the Soviets wanted to get a small high-speed interceptor submarine, the crew had to be small.

The Soviets were able to reduce the size of the crew to 32 officers without ordinary sailors. Although the Lyra class submarines were a powerful technological breakthrough, security issues remained. “We have been using Lyra submarines for twenty years (project 705), from 70 to 90. It was a promising project, but in the end we were forced to roll it because of the abundance of new technological ideas implemented simultaneously on the same ship, ”the Lenta.ru portal cites a source from the defense department, referring to the state agency Sputnik.

Although Lyra was a failure, the technologies used in the construction of this submarine paved the way for the Condor (945 project) and Pike-B project (97 project) and ultimately for the YN project class (Severodvinsk class submarines). Indeed, in comparison with American submarines, such as the Interceptor and SSGN, there are much smaller crews in Russian submarines, and the Russians continue to work on their further reduction. The source said the publication lenta. ru, that the crew size can be reduced to 885-50 people and eventually even brought to the crew members 55 and 30.

Of course, given the economic situation in Russia, it is difficult to say when these submarines will be made in practice, if they are to appear at all.
Author:
Originator:
http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-buzz/the-hunt-the-next-red-october-russias-lethal-new-subs-15307
59 comments
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  1. Vladimyrych
    Vladimyrych 1 March 2016 16: 52
    -72 qualifying.
    100500 models and one working of the new - 955. Nothing like this result ... negative
    Oak "Ash" looks like running gear will rot like 22350 ...
    1. Samen
      Samen 1 March 2016 16: 55
      +8
      Reprint of a recent article. negative
      http://topwar.ru/91461-plany-po-vozrozhdeniyu-sovetskoy-apl-lira-nashli-otklik-v

      -zapadnoy-presse.html
      1. Pravdarm
        Pravdarm 1 March 2016 16: 58
        12
        Yes! something today on VO repetitions-clarifications with the T-90, and with the "Lear", and with the RD-180!
        it’s hard to say when these submarines will be made in practice, if they are destined to appear at all.
        And all the Americans have done it with fear! And Dave Majumdar - the first! also evaluates the economic condition of Russia!
        To shreds, yo !!! Torn! A miracle.
        1. cniza
          cniza 1 March 2016 17: 00
          +5
          Let the adversaries tremble, they are still waiting for many gifts from us and better "goldfish".
          1. Temples
            Temples 1 March 2016 17: 26
            +6
            Some pike perch discusses his fears.
            And blasphemes our country between the business.
            What the hell is it to post here?
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Locksmith
          Locksmith 2 March 2016 09: 07
          0
          Quote: Pravdarm
          Dave Majumdar - the first!

          Yes you what !! wink This is the coolest analyte, he is finally a universal salat of USA, he knows everything about everyone !! In a word, Iksperd, and from it one can accurately judge that we are very surprised and incredibly annoyed by them in an attempt to catch up and understand, all that he wants clearly from this series of crazy ideas inaccessible to the Yankees. laughing
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Wheel
        Wheel 1 March 2016 17: 29
        +2
        How, again, Majumdar?
        Admins, is it for a joke of humor or in all seriousness?
    2. killganoff
      killganoff 1 March 2016 17: 05
      -12 qualifying.
      Yes sir! they cannot be called successful.
    3. rassel0889
      rassel0889 1 March 2016 17: 13
      +9
      Quote: Vladimir
      100500 models and one working of the new - 955. Nothing like this result ... negative
      Oak "Ash" looks like running gear will rot like 22350 ...
      Just to write, but think later, or not at all ..
      1. mirag2
        mirag2 1 March 2016 17: 29
        +4
        I read this article a couple of days ago on InoSmi
    4. Civil
      Civil 1 March 2016 17: 32
      0
      Goldfish, the concept is right ...
      1. kote119
        kote119 1 March 2016 17: 37
        +1
        and what is the concept?
    5. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 1 March 2016 21: 39
      +8
      Quote: Vladimir
      Oak "Ash" looks like running gear will rot

      Are you an enemy !? The hidden enemy ...
      For it is only the enemy who can wish that the boat "disappeared on the way" ...
      Or a nerd! (sorry for being blunt.)
      1. Vladimyrych
        Vladimyrych 1 March 2016 22: 19
        -6
        1) I’m just not an enemy.
        2) Where is it you are not respected in my words saw a desire
        Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
        so that the boat "disappears on the way"
        .
        This merciful sir is not a desire, but a deplorable reality, and "Admiral Gorshkov" pr. 22350 and "Ash" 855 "Severodvinsk" confirm this.
        Threat.
        And "nerd" is you because you do not see reality.
        I apologize for being blunt.
    6. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 2 March 2016 14: 54
      +3
      Quote: Vladimir
      Oak "Ash" looks like running gear will rot like 22350 ...

      Quote: Vladimir
      And "nerd" is you because you do not see reality.

      Dear Leader of the Redskins!
      Didn't you write the first sentence?
      Well, and if you do not "enter" the meaning of the word "perish"then what claims to me? request
      I understand: for an Indian, the RUSSIAN language is very complicated, but still, if you want to be adequately understood, choose the RUSSIAN words appropriately to the semantic load, dear tomahawk owner! yes
      Or is the problem something else? belay
      In any case, I propose to remember the statement of V. I. Lenin: "Who thinks clearly, he clearly expounds!" laughing
  2. Magic archer
    Magic archer 1 March 2016 16: 55
    +2
    Everything would be fine, but with such speed the main advantage of the submarine-secrecy is lost! I remember reading about Lira’s tests. The acoustics were deaf !! The decibel level was off the scale! There were no weapons to sink it in 70, now the speed of NATO torpedoes exceeds 50 knots. Then what the meaning of such speed ?!
    1. Scoun
      Scoun 1 March 2016 17: 25
      11
      Quote: Magic Archer
      In the 70s there was no weapon to sink it, now the speed of NATO torpedoes exceeds 50 knots. Then what is the point of such a speed ?!

      ))) Why should the speed of, say, “today's“ Lyra ”remain in the 70s?
      like the USA have been moving forward since the 70s, but should we leave the noise and speed from the 70s? ))) Well, agree this is not logical ... If ours are taken, then the speed and noise will be according to the demand from the Military.
      1. Temples
        Temples 1 March 2016 17: 32
        +5
        In the 70s there was no weapon to sink it, now the speed of NATO torpedoes exceeds 50 knots. Then what is the point of such a speed ?!

        Are you seriously thinking that torpedoes need to be dumped at full speed ???
        For this speed is needed ???

        And in this case, the plane should be blown off missiles?
        Faster and away?

        It turns out the main quality of a warrior running? laughing
        Like we are alive so far! laughing laughing laughing
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 1 March 2016 17: 58
          +3
          Quote: Temples
          It turns out the main quality of the warrior running

          The point is that Lyra during the threatening period could accompany enemy AUGs or individual aircraft carriers, while remaining less vulnerable to the enemy. He heard it, but it was difficult to beat it quickly.
          1. ssergn
            ssergn 1 March 2016 19: 55
            +2
            Andrey, if I’m not mistaken, Lyra could make an 180 degree turn in just a couple of minutes at full speed. Something like this, specialists correct if something is wrong. This was just one of the advantages of the project - the ability of the reactor to quickly reach its maximum operating conditions (if you didn’t accurately describe it, please call)
        2. Winnie76
          Winnie76 1 March 2016 18: 15
          +2
          Do you think that you should slowly and proudly sail \ fly towards the dash / rocket? And for some reason, engineers are struggling to increase the speed of boats, ships, planes, tanks. They put some stupid turbines, they come up with afterburners, here are the suckers. Nifiga not warriors, not like the great warrior of the Temples wink
          1. kote119
            kote119 1 March 2016 18: 24
            +2
            it's not about modern boats you say
      2. Bayonet
        Bayonet 2 March 2016 06: 57
        +2
        Quote: Scoun
        If ours are taken, then the speed and noise will be as required by the Military.

        There can be little noise at high speed - the environment will not allow it! smile
    2. Inok10
      Inok10 1 March 2016 17: 31
      +5
      Quote: Magic Archer
      In the 70s there was no weapon to sink it, now the speed of NATO torpedoes exceeds 50 knots. Then what is the point of such a speed ?!

      ... there is one moment ... at a depth of up to 400 meters, the best English torpedo runs at a speed of 60 knots. at a distance of 50 km. about 20 minutes ... but then everything is not so rosy ... at a depth of 600 m. already 35 knots. at a distance of 30 km. and only 9 minutes ... no one will deceive physics, the deeper the density of water is more ... hi
      PS ... 705th "Lyra" at full speed made a turn by 180 degrees. in 42 seconds ! ...
      1. gas113
        gas113 1 March 2016 17: 51
        10
        the density of water is independent of pressure and depth in practice. the fluid is incompressible. water density can change with temperature. physics must not be deceived.
        1. gas113
          gas113 1 March 2016 19: 11
          +3
          ha ha minuses stuck disagreeing with the fact that the fluid is incompressible. Victims of the exam. There is only Lavrov to quote ....
      2. AUL
        AUL 1 March 2016 17: 53
        +6
        no one will deceive physics, the deeper the density of water is more ...
        Inok10, physics does not need to be deceived, physics needs to be taught! Water is an incompressible substance; therefore, the density of water does not depend on depth.
        That is,gas113 ahead of ...
        1. Inok10
          Inok10 1 March 2016 18: 04
          +3
          Quote: AUL
          the density of water is independent of pressure and depth in practice. the fluid is incompressible. water density can change with temperature. physics must not be deceived.

          Quote: AUL
          no one will deceive physics, the deeper the density of water is more ...
          Inok10, physics does not need to be deceived, physics needs to be taught! Water is an incompressible substance; therefore, the density of water does not depend on depth.
          Well, gas113 got ahead ...

          ... and now we both read what learned men write about it ... and think before clever ...
          Sea water, which is a complex solution, completely does not satisfy such requirements: its physical properties, including density, are significantly different from the properties of chemically pure water. On average, the density of sea water is 1,025 grams per cubic centimeter. Therefore, her liter is 25 grams heavier than fresh. But the density of water varies across the oceans, it varies somewhat depending on salinity and temperature. The higher the salinity, the greater the density. The dependence of density on temperature is the opposite: the warmer the water, the lower its density. So, the lowest density of sea water - 1,022 grams per cubic centimeter - was noted in the surface layers of the equatorial zone of the Pacific Ocean, and the highest — 1,028 grams per cubic centimeter — near the ocean floor.

          Even a slight change in the density of sea water entails very significant consequences. So, when cooling the upper layers of the ocean, the water becomes denser and falls. Towards her rush less dense deep waters. Vertical currents occur. In combination with horizontal currents, they give the oceans the appearance of a layer cake, each layer of which is characterized by its own specific indicators of density, salinity and temperature. Thanks to vertical currents, water in the ocean is mixed to a certain extent, oxygen-rich surface waters penetrate into the depths, bottom-water masses of nutrients rich in biogenic salts rise from the bottom layers. Source: http://www.seapeace.ru/
          ... water, water is different ... conversation is over Ocean, and this is a complex solution! ... ah, not fresh ... hi
          1. gas113
            gas113 1 March 2016 18: 28
            +3
            so think "pundit" about what you write. changes in density due to temperature and salinity differences are negligible. and the dependence of the torpedo mileage on the depth depends on the external pressure of the medium, which the more the more negatively affects the ability of the working bodies to expand in gas generators, propellers and other devices. does not apply to electric torpedoes. although if there is a chemical electric generator on them, then the pressure can also affect the reaction rate ... but the density of water is practically a constant
          2. AUL
            AUL 1 March 2016 18: 32
            +2
            Did you yourself read what you quoted here? I doubt it ...
            The fact that the density of water depends on impurities (salinity, in this context) - of course!
            The fact that the density of water depends on its temperature - but for God's sake!
            But where in this quote did you see that the density depends on pressure(depths)?
            No need to juggle, learn physics better!
            ... and think before clever ... (c)
            Again gas113 ahead. That's nimble! hi
            1. Boa kaa
              Boa kaa 1 March 2016 22: 49
              +7
              Quote: AUL
              ... and think before clever ... (c)

              Allow me to insert your 5 kopecks into the conversation of smart people.
              1. With increasing depth, the maximum low-noise speed increases. This is due to the fact that cavitation decreases with increasing pressure ...
              2. Regarding heat engines and electric torpedoes, gas113 is absolutely right.
              3. Depth affects the use of TO. Torpedoes launched from the TA "gratings" by self-output are preferable: less noise in the vehicle. The depth of fire is due to the strength of the rear cover of the TA and the torpedo itself.
              4. The strength characteristics of the submarine hull provide a number of tactical advantages. You can go under the jump layer, or when searching, you can become a depth stabilizer in the slam-shut device and thereby ensure superiority in D obn. the enemy. Now this function is performed by a HAS with an extended antenna.
              Something like this. Yours faithfully, hi
              1. Inok10
                Inok10 1 March 2016 23: 14
                +2
                Quote: Boa constrictor KAA
                Allow me to insert your 5 kopecks into the conversation of smart people.

                ... I always listen with pleasure to a Smart Man ... hi ... but the conversation was over for density and it was not for nothing that the depths were given ... 400 m and 600 m ... such a phenomenon in the World Ocean as Thermocline, no one has canceled ... what is it ?! and how to eat it ?! ... it's simple, this is the average depth of the oceans from 500 to 1000 m. which is a medium of mixing surface layers up to 400m., thoroughly mixed by wind with fresh water and having a higher temperature and depth layers which do not change in any storm ... what is the point ... a sharp drop in temperature and an increase in water salinity in this the boundary layer leads to a sharp increase in water density and, as a result, increased resistance to the speed of the torpedo, the average temperature drops by 1 g. for every 10 m. down ... the effect is almost comparable when you get a gust of wind of 30-35 m / s in the face on the go ... and even in the area of ​​the thermocline the speed of sound in water drops and the refraction of sound can change properties. So, above the thermocline, the refraction is positive, as a result of which the sound rays deviate to the surface, and below it is negative, and the rays deviate to the bottom. At the same time, the object located in the thermal wedge remains invisible to sonars ... which is very fond of melting ... The phenomenon of pycnocline, which is called “liquid soil” in the environment of submariners, is also directly related to the thermal wedge. This phenomenon represents a sharp jump in the density of water at depth. The increase in the density of the water layer is explained either by a significant difference in its temperature characteristics from the surrounding water (i.e., a thermocline), or by its increased salinity. Submariners sometimes use "liquid soil" to fix the submarine at a certain depth, this is called "laying on liquid soil." In this process, the ship is differentiated with residual buoyancy to almost zero, and then plunged or floated with a small trim. Stopping or slowing down the dive or ascent indicates getting into the pycnocline. Then a small amount of water is taken into the equalization tank, and the boat is reliably lying on the "liquid soil". ... hi
                1. Inok10
                  Inok10 1 March 2016 23: 25
                  +2
                  Quote: Inok10
                  Thermocline

                  ... clearly ... hi
          3. free
            free 1 March 2016 18: 36
            +1
            healed !!! good
      3. ssergn
        ssergn 1 March 2016 19: 59
        0
        In in in, and I just spoke about it above. This is generally some kind of cool! Just think about it !!!!
    3. VALERIK_097
      VALERIK_097 1 March 2016 18: 26
      +1
      Have you ever heard how, TsNPK on BO works?
      Science 20 years ago said, the only noises that will be from this submarine are noises from VRGr (cavitation + creation of air bubbles on the wheels), like in an airplane - when maneuvers, breaking air flows are visible. The 705th project was controlled like an airplane, Ie did not maneuver pancake.
      IC-head grandfathers told me about this, Electromagnetic pumps 1k. + Main thrust ED - 2nd circuit (unnecessary). I hope science has coped with EM fields.
      There are many pluses with the LMT reactor, one of them is almost instantaneous localization of the coolant leak + deactivation. For ordinary people, as a child, everyone melted lead from the batteries)))) It cooled down, tore off, it worked out with a file, and that’s a good deal.
      Then think for yourself, not fiction at all.
      But the titanium component of the ship did not change)))
    4. Manul
      Manul 1 March 2016 23: 45
      +1
      Quote: Magic Archer
      Now the speed of NATO torpedoes exceeds 50 knots. Then what is the point of such speed ?!

      Sometimes speed is needed in order to be able to get out of the detection zone, given the opportunity. None will give the most complete if they assume that hunters scurry about them?
  3. sever.56
    sever.56 1 March 2016 16: 55
    +9
    In vain the author is worried about the economic condition of Russia - it will be necessary, but we will do that which is sure. Saving on new weapons projects is impossible.
    There will be no reliable shield and sword for the state - all achievements in the economy, science, culture, living standards of the people will remain useless to anyone, since all this can be destroyed by a well-armed enemy.
  4. Vladimirets
    Vladimirets 1 March 2016 16: 55
    +4
    The translator, it seems, is an absolutely civilian person. smile
    1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
      Andrei from Chelyabinsk 1 March 2016 17: 02
      +9
      Quote: Vladimirets
      Translator, it feels like a completely civilian person

      The author of the article is also :)))
  5. DenZ
    DenZ 1 March 2016 16: 56
    +7
    Yeah, Lira is an unsuccessful project. Why were they so afraid of him? I did not find anything new in the article for myself. Foreign blah blah blah.
  6. HAM
    HAM 1 March 2016 16: 57
    +1
    Not sts, Dave, will appear!
  7. operrus
    operrus 1 March 2016 16: 59
    +5
    Let them not worry, there will be new submarines and there will be a new "Lyra", this is "pleasure" laughing they will receive in full tongue .
  8. polite people
    polite people 1 March 2016 17: 06
    +1
    Our "Goldfish" will make anyone tremble with fear.
  9. shark
    shark 1 March 2016 17: 07
    +1
    Look, the general people also have nothing to write about.
    1. clidon
      clidon 1 March 2016 22: 47
      -1
      NI is the foreign branch of Vestnik Mordovii.
      1. Manul
        Manul 1 March 2016 23: 57
        +1
        Quote: clidon
        NI is the foreign branch of Vestnik Mordovii.

        Does Vestnik Mordovii publish muddy articles, which NI often allows itself?
        1. clidon
          clidon 2 March 2016 15: 46
          0
          The NI is simply geared towards the "general American reader" with appropriate rhetoric. And both are a piggy bank of rumors.
  10. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 1 March 2016 17: 08
    +3
    Did they seriously believe that Obama broke the Russian economy to shreds? Well then, let them sleep soundly, deep and healthy sleep.
    1. novobranets
      novobranets 1 March 2016 17: 54
      +3
      Obama:
      -Powerful America tore the Russian economy to shreds!

      Sad Poroshenko raises his head:
      - I dare say, the error came out - not Russian, but Ukrainian ...

      Obama:
      -Yes don't care! The main thing is to shreds!
    2. square
      square 1 March 2016 17: 59
      0
      We will be them in terrible dreams. They wake up, and then the bummer is not a dream. belay
  11. sir_obs
    sir_obs 1 March 2016 17: 11
    +4
    Dude finally can not, I retold in my own words an article from the Internet, putting entot opus in a standard foreign template.
  12. PKK
    PKK 1 March 2016 17: 52
    +3
    The author writes that Lira worked for 20 years and this is a failure. And the fact that there are a lot of new products on it. It was just the point to work out a new one on a boat, you can’t get enough crafts for many boats. And there’s so much information from one boat ! And touched on the future, no need to guess what to build, everything has already been worked out. Do what is available to the builders. The author sobbed more than told him that it was worth it.
  13. Vadim237
    Vadim237 1 March 2016 18: 03
    +1
    "And all because the new generation of submarines launched by Moscow" did not know that there is a shipyard in Moscow - they seem to lower the river to Moscow.
    1. kartalovkolya
      kartalovkolya 1 March 2016 18: 17
      0
      No, they let them down the drain in Moscow, and this next "madjumar" meant the whole of Russia (although if all of Russia has it in mind, then you won't envy him)!
  14. lopvlad
    lopvlad 1 March 2016 18: 17
    +4
    over the creation of offensive submarines

    I know only one non-offensive nuclear submarine in the world and that is the "Ukrainian" "Zaporozhye".
  15. guzik007
    guzik007 1 March 2016 18: 23
    +2
    Although Lira was a failure,
    ----------------------------------------
    ... Yeah, "failure" was exploited for 20 years. such an ambush.
    1. clidon
      clidon 1 March 2016 22: 47
      0
      "According to Yu.V. Apalkov, the nuclear submarines were almost never used and for 20 years their active service turned out to be very short."
  16. Boa kaa
    Boa kaa 2 March 2016 00: 00
    +2
    Enough time has passed, but we and the AMs did not return to the idea of ​​nuclear power plants at the MMT. In fairness, it should be noted that the first submarine with an LMW (Na) on the BN was the American boat Seawolf (1957). In 1958 - nuclear power plant accident with the release of VT. After this, the Ami abandoned the MMT. Although the problem of maintaining the coolant at T more than 125 * C is solved today with the help of a heat accumulator.
    The main efforts of designers, shipbuilders, scientists are now focused on reducing the visibility of submarines in various fields (acoustic, thermal, electromagnetic, radiation, hydrodynamic). This is how the torsion, even the "mental" one is on the agenda! It seems fantastic, but it already exists ...
    But closer to the iron. What can we expect in the near future?
    1. Decrease in displacement, crew, cost of boats ... by at least 50%
    2. Decrease in noise level and visibility of submarines due to:
    - the transition to a single-hull design, single-shaft, with a water cannon as a mover;
    - the use of a complex system of depreciation of mechanisms, their placement on soundproof platforms, using cable suspension systems, with shelter mechanisms in soundproof cameras, shielding them from the sides of the submarine;
    - covering the submarine body on both sides with a sound-absorbing polymer. The use of a "smart" P-G / A coating on the outside of the boat hull, which receives the GAS radiation and turns it into "natural sea noise";
    - transition to a full electric movement scheme, and in the future to a shaftless movement system. GTZA will disappear as the main source of noise.
    - placement of weapons outside the sturdy hull of the boat;
    - placement of hot-wire gratings on the submarine hull along its entire length. Conforming HAS of a large area;
    - simplification of hull structures (impenetrable periscopes, communication masts, radar, radar), replacement of hydraulic, mechanical drives and actuators with electric ones. (EDSU, like on an airplane!)
    - full automation in the system of combat control, the use of weapons.
    - refusal of the central circuit of the 1st circuit (already exists: natural circulation of VT)
    - block weapons system using robots and machine guns;
    - active PTZ system;
    And maybe something else that is a secret.
    Yours faithfully, hi