Military Review

Russian defense industry has restored the documentation necessary for the repair of ships of the Navy, built abroad

155
The enterprises of the defense complex of the Russian Federation fully restored the design documentation necessary for the repair and modernization of ships and vessels of the Navy built abroad, reports RIA News.




"At present, more than 450 ships, boats, tugboats and support vessels built at the shipyards of Poland, Bulgaria, Finland, GDR and other countries continue to serve in the Russian Navy, but to maintain their technical readiness, authorial supervision is required from these ships, involving technical maintenance of repair and modernization works, ”the agency quotes its source in the military-industrial complex.

“For several decades, naturally, all ties with the enterprises and designers of these ships have disappeared. Therefore, a number of scientific organizations and institutes that deal with military ship repair, the functions of technical support designers have been taken over, ”said the source.

According to him, “the leading positions in the development of design and technological documentation for foreign-built ships are taken by the 51 Central Design and Technological Institute of Ship Repair,” but the Krylov Research Center, the Central Research Institute of Prometheus, the Special Design Bureau of Boiler Building and Solikamsk plant "Ural" ".

“This is a kind of import substitution, which involves carrying out technical calculations for the installation instead of outdated and inoperable equipment of foreign production of domestic analogues of ship systems. That is, as a matter of fact, there is an aggregate replacement of various technical devices on ships for Russian, which meet the design characteristics, and in many respects surpass them, ”the source stressed.

He noted that “the most illustrative example of the restoration of full-fledged supervision of foreign-built ships is the repair of the Caesar Kunikov, a large landing ship built in Poland, whose service life has been extended by five years.”

“The same work is being carried out with respect to 12 units of the BDK of this project, which are part of the Naval Fleet. These ships will serve the fleet for another 10 years, ”said a representative of the defense industry.

The agency’s reference: “51 Central Design and Technological Institute of Ship Repair, JSC is the head organization of the Russian Navy for the development of regulatory, methodological, design and technological documentation for the repair of ships and vessels components of their products.”
Photos used:
aquatek-filips.livejournal.com
155 comments
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 27 February 2016 13: 43
    +7
    Yes, the consequences of overseas shipments. Nothing. Mistral we still needed.
    1. Baikonur
      Baikonur 27 February 2016 13: 57
      16
      Forgive, not US, but "YM"! hi
      (x / f "Operation" Y ")
      Wooden products! fool
      1. cniza
        cniza 27 February 2016 15: 25
        37
        It has always been that ships were built not only with us, but that the documentation was restored - well done, these ships and ships will still serve.
        1. Maxom75
          Maxom75 27 February 2016 18: 02
          31
          It was such a way to balance mutual settlements with the CMEA countries, because they constantly found themselves in debt to the USSR. Our authorities wrote off debts to them, but nobody wrote off anything to us. It was also necessary not to behave like noble suckers, but to take away resources and property.
        2. Ami du peuple
          Ami du peuple 27 February 2016 18: 53
          10
          Quote: cniza
          these ships and vessels will still serve.

          All the same ships. Ships are kakbe civilian vessels.
          Well, now the sister ship "Kunikov" - "Konstantin Olshansky" will be restored, the propulsion system of which the Ukrainians have damaged due to illiterate operation. And then the poor fellow, after the return of the Crimea, it seems as in the KChF, but idle at the pier. And in the "Syrian Express" I would absolutely not be superfluous.
          1. olegfbi
            olegfbi 27 February 2016 22: 02
            14
            Russian defense industry has restored the documentation necessary for the repair of ships of the Navy, built abroad

            Yes, these Engineers \ Designers need to erect a monument, during life !!!
            This MEGA is a difficult and almost unrealistic task !!!!
            APPLAUSE STANDING !!!
            1. feropont
              feropont 28 February 2016 14: 14
              0
              Yes, this documentation didn’t disappear, it was lying in the archive
        3. Giant thought
          Giant thought 27 February 2016 19: 42
          +2
          It is clear that he restored it not from scratch, which means there were some nest egg.
        4. The comment was deleted.
      2. Alex777
        Alex777 27 February 2016 23: 03
        +1
        Well, yes, they were preparing for Syria.
        Mistral would be very useful ...
    2. lelikas
      lelikas 27 February 2016 14: 00
      50
      Quote: Mavrikiy
      Yes, the consequences of overseas shipments. Nothing. Mistral we still needed.

      And he is now required, not even one. That's just nowhere to take.
      The fact that the ships were built in Poland and Germany is normal, this freed up their shipyards, but the fact that they pumped everything later is not normal.
      1. Misha Honest
        Misha Honest 27 February 2016 14: 10
        +6
        Quote: lelikas
        And he is now required, not even one. That's just nowhere to take.

        Yes, the Mistral counterparts would be very useful for us in the Far East and the Northern Fleet - for sure. Perhaps on the southern seas too ...
        1. Baikonur
          Baikonur 27 February 2016 14: 20
          +6
          Quote: Misha Honest
          Yes, the Mistral counterparts would be very useful for us in the Far East and the Northern Fleet - for sure. Perhaps on the southern seas too ...

          And you do not bother to explain - Why?
          we would be very useful now
          regarding the costs of maintenance, operation, MOT!
          1. gispanec
            gispanec 27 February 2016 15: 05
            -18 qualifying.
            Quote: Baikonur
            And you do not bother to explain - Why?

            but is there any sense in explaining it to you? ... you don’t understand anything in the VFM !! ... there are reasons that you are the same noob in any military field ... you can’t even divide up ... your horizons are outlined by the conscription service, otherwise you would not have skidded in all topics on VO ... unfortunately without due respect, negative
            1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
              Andrei from Chelyabinsk 27 February 2016 15: 40
              13
              You will also tell me that I do not understand anything in the Navy? And this will be the only explanation why the Russian Navy needs landing helicopter carriers in the Far East or, even worse, in the north?
              1. lelikas
                lelikas 27 February 2016 15: 58
                11
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                You will also tell me that I do not understand anything in the Navy? And this will be the only explanation why the Russian Navy needs landing helicopter carriers in the Far East or, even worse, in the north?

                The ship, usually, differs in that it can move itself, it does not matter where it is. Explain to us why we from the "priest in the soap" bought the transports for the "Syrian Express" from the backstreets, tell the Japanese too that they built their own in vain - they do not know that. laughing Based on SF and Pacific Fleet, it does not depend on the straits, which can block. In Middle-earth, there was always a combined squadron, from all fleets, which is now practiced.
                1. Stas157
                  Stas157 27 February 2016 17: 15
                  +8
                  Quote: lelikas
                  Explain to us why we from the "priest in the soap" bought the transports for the "Syrian Express"

                  Do you suggest using Mistral instead of bulk carriers? We really need BDK, no doubt! Here, only yours!
                  1. gispanec
                    gispanec 27 February 2016 21: 40
                    -2
                    Quote: Stas157
                    We really need BDK, no doubt! Here, only yours!

                    name 1 BDK for each fleet .... your BDK .... and knowing the time of the construction of Grena .... when we have them ... if at all ...
                2. weksha50
                  weksha50 27 February 2016 17: 39
                  +3
                  Quote: lelikas
                  Based on SF and Pacific Fleet, it does not depend on straits, which can block



                  Moreover, Rogozin either yesterday or today announced that the SevMorPut is an alternative to these straits ...

                  For me, this statement is debatable, but some sense at the state level is invested in it ...

                  True, the fact of using Mistral-type ships in the SF is also debatable for me - it has already been said at VO that these ships are poorly adapted for the northern latitudes ... But this is another conversation ...

                  But in general, some problems with the Syrian "express" have already shown the importance and need for ships of the BDK class ...

                  PS I forgot to add: about the controversy of finding ships on the SF - I meant exactly ships like the Mistral, and not the BDK ...
                  1. Inok10
                    Inok10 27 February 2016 19: 19
                    +9
                    Quote: weksha50
                    I forgot to add: about the controversy of finding ships in the SF - I meant exactly ships of the Mistral type, and not the BDK ...

                    ... I will also insert my "three kopecks" ... in its pure form, "Mistral" is like "the dog's fifth leg" ... since Soviet times there was an excellent project that combined all the advantages of the BDK and UDC, alas, the country is gone ... project 11780 ... you can compare the performance characteristics in the picture ... hi
                    1. Inok10
                      Inok10 27 February 2016 19: 25
                      +9
                      Quote: Inok10
                      проект 11780

                      ... layout ... hi
                    2. weksha50
                      weksha50 27 February 2016 20: 10
                      +4
                      Quote: Inok10
                      The country is gone ... project 11780



                      Mdya ... the country is gone, and the project too ...
                      But the performance characteristics look powerful and beautiful ... Although now build and put into operation ... damn it, some kind of tautology with the formation turned out ...
                    3. Alexey RA
                      Alexey RA 29 February 2016 17: 27
                      0
                      Quote: Inok10
                      since Soviet times, there was an excellent project that combined all the advantages of the BDK and UDC, alas, the Country was gone ... project 11780 ... you can compare the performance characteristics in the picture.

                      I beg your pardon, but the Mistrals were ordered as cheap and fast in the construction of the UDC so that our design bureaus and shipyard would have before our eyes TD, CD and an example of the UDC “in hardware,” and our fleet - ships for practicing over-the-horizon landing tactics.

                      Project 11780 ("Ivan Tarava") is by no means a cheap and fast project. In fact, this is the development of the "mega-Khalzan" (project 10200 in the building of project 1143). And the main ambush with him is that he needs a "slipway 0", which remained in Nikolaev.

                      Actually. the entire history of the design of Soviet UDC is a battle with the TAVKR for the only slipway in the USSR. Because the UDC of small size (the same first two versions of "Halzan"), the fleet killed at the stage of sketches - "do not meet the minimum requirements for security and survivability". smile
                3. KaPToC
                  KaPToC 27 February 2016 17: 46
                  +2
                  A ship is distinguished by the fact that it cannot navigate on land.
                4. Ros 56
                  Ros 56 28 February 2016 09: 19
                  +5
                  Quote: lelikas
                  allows you to not depend on the straits, which can block.


                  Well, it's you in vain, we have a universal key, the straits will open. Only it is not clear where you gathered, and through which straits? And the fact that we ourselves will repair the ships is a very good idea. Firstly, there is reason that they will not slip some kind of hack for the future, secondly, they will gain experience, and thirdly, OUR jobs for Petya, Vanya, Sergey, and not Karl and Friedrich.
              2. gispanec
                gispanec 27 February 2016 20: 15
                -5
                Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
                You will also tell me that I do not understand anything in the Navy?

                if you think that new ships for the Russian Navy for 2 lard (24000tn) 2 pieces are not needed and this is a burden, then yes !!! then it’s time for you to think about the beds ... name what to go to Syria or Sakhalin !! (Kuril Islands) ... (how to carry zips and supplies) .. come on ???????
              3. Penelope
                Penelope 27 February 2016 20: 26
                +4
                Everything is even better when everything is your own, including the documentation.
            2. Baikonur
              Baikonur 27 February 2016 16: 30
              22
              Quote: gispanec
              But there is a sense вam explain?
              Not to me, but to everyone! By the way, you didn’t explain, you wise guy!
              .вyou don’t understand anything in VFM!!
              I am from Baikonur! And there is no Navy, not that VFM!
              ... there are reasons (believe - probably the word was missed) that in any military field you are the same noob ... you ни to count, не to share can notиthose... all вyour horizons outlined by the conscription service
              I am a major videoconferencer!
              , otherwise you would not skid in all topics on VO ... to sozhеlaziness without due respect,

              Where, interestingly, I skidded ?!
              And here you are - really
              outlined by the conscription service
              clearly visible! Especially for insults to strangers to you!
              PS:
              AT ALL without respect !!! stop
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. 11 black
                11 black 27 February 2016 17: 40
                +5
                Quote: Baikonur
                I am a major videoconferencer!


                Actually and now - with respect hi
              3. gispanec
                gispanec 27 February 2016 20: 46
                -12 qualifying.
                Quote: Baikonur
                I am a major videoconferencer!

                fellow to continue? ... what kind of major are you? ... deputy head or deputy head? .... although what difference does it make ...
            3. rpek32
              rpek32 27 February 2016 16: 37
              15
              Quote: gispanec
              but is there any sense in explaining it to you? ... you don’t understand anything in the VFM !! ... there are reasons that you are the same noob in any military field ... you can’t even divide up ... your horizons are outlined by the conscription service, otherwise you would not have skidded in all topics on VO ... unfortunately without due respect,

              take the trouble to educate the general public, instead of building a "smart guy" out of yourself. laughing
              1. gispanec
                gispanec 27 February 2016 20: 47
                -14 qualifying.
                Quote: rpek32

                bother too

                already crawled to work for idiots ... read regularly IN
            4. gamer
              gamer 27 February 2016 20: 50
              +9
              And you, mister good, for a start, learn to write without errors !!!
              1. gispanec
                gispanec 27 February 2016 20: 57
                -7
                Quote: igorek
                And you, mister good, for a start, learn to write without errors !!!

                follow yourself .... and put spaces ... otherwise deuce !!!
              2. Baikonur
                Baikonur 27 February 2016 21: 08
                +6
                And you read the comments of this geo-Spaniard! He has many ... eh, essentially saying nothing!
                Quote: gispanec
                already crawled to work for idiots.
                It turns out - OH - slave idiot !!! belay laughing fellow
            5. tolian
              tolian 27 February 2016 21: 10
              +5
              gispanec, I’m reading you and the style of the comment is confirmed by at least this E in the word .... sorry ...
            6. gispanec
              gispanec 27 February 2016 21: 18
              -16 qualifying.
              [quote = gispanec] [quote = Baikonur] And you do not bother to explain - Why? [/ quote]

              and Maoyr Baikonur deleted all his comments where the minuses were in the majority ..... he was a fool and not an officer ..... a pimple .... not related to the military ... !!!
              1. Baikonur
                Baikonur 27 February 2016 21: 35
                +4
                Unable to delete comments !!!
                Guess from the 1st time what happened!
                (Hint - YOU turned it on in an emergency!) fool

                Quote: geispan
                what kind of major are you? ... zampotech or zampolit? .... although what's the difference ...
                An electronic engineer by profession from Mozhaika, and then Baikonur Cosmodrome!
          2. Misha Honest
            Misha Honest 27 February 2016 15: 59
            +3
            Quote: Baikonur
            And you do not bother to explain - Why?

            In the Far East - the first and main reason - Japan, the Kuril Islands ... continue to continue? winked And to Alaska in which case are you going to swim?
            Behind the Arctic Circle there are also quite a few islands of different + to protect the northern sea route, and here also Norway, the British, etc. run up ...
            Quote: Baikonur
            regarding the costs of maintenance, operation, MOT!

            Do you think that it will be more expensive than a couple of Kuznetsovs? Then, according to your logic, we don't need aircraft carriers either ... Do you want to cut Kuznetsov? AND, when the adversaries will attack, we will go to the Yankees, again swim to visit? Or further, except how to shy off nuclear weapons your options end? Then - yes, nobody will need anything, of course ...
            1. Baikonur
              Baikonur 27 February 2016 16: 58
              +8
              About the aircraft carrier - Hmm!
              About the helicopter carrier
              In the Far East - the first and main reason - Japan, the Kuril Islands ... continue to continue?
              I ask again: FUCKING HELICOPTERS ???????
              And when the adversaries attack, we go to the Yankees, again, go swimming to visit?
              ON HELICOPTERS or what? -BEATTER ????
              1. Misha Honest
                Misha Honest 27 February 2016 17: 28
                +4
                Quote: Baikonur
                About the aircraft carrier - Hmm!
                About the helicopter carrier
                I ask again: FUCKING HELICOPTERS ???????

                In fact, the word "Helicopter carriers" is not entirely appropriate here ... As an example - the same mistrals:
                "Mistral" (fr. Mistral) - family universal landing helicopter carriers.
                Ships of this type are capable of performing four tasks: to land on land motorized military units, to receive and service combat helicopters, to be a command center and a floating hospital.
                https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Универсальные_десантные_ко
                rabli_type_ "Mistral"
                Or here's an article about Chinese dock landing ships:
                http://voennovosti.ru/2012/04/kitajskie-desantnye-korabli-doki/
                Quote: Baikonur
                ON HELICOPTERS or what? -BEATTER ????

                And what else do you offer? request
                1. Baikonur
                  Baikonur 27 February 2016 17: 48
                  +2
                  Quote: Misha Honest
                  And what else do you offer?
                  BDK, for example (Large landing ships), which we are building! (few, of course, but we are in vests! soldier ) Military equipment is located on the BDK on the tank deck. These can be either main battle tanks weighing up to 60 tons (up to 13 units), armored personnel carriers or infantry fighting vehicles (up to 36 vehicles), or up to 300 paratroopers.
                  MDK "Zubr"

                  And then, who are you going to attack through the sea-okane? Russia has a defensive doctrine and it did not threaten anyone! Finish, capture? So too other ways rampart!
                  1. Misha Honest
                    Misha Honest 27 February 2016 17: 58
                    +3
                    Quote: Baikonur
                    BDK, for example (Large landing ships), which we are building! (few, of course, but we are in vests!) Military equipment is located on the BDK on the tank deck. These can be either main battle tanks weighing up to 60 tons (up to 13 units), armored personnel carriers or infantry fighting vehicles (up to 36 vehicles), or up to 300 paratroopers.
                    MDK "Zubr"

                    In principle, you are partly right, but it makes no sense to compare the BDK with the platforms - they have a different range of tasks, capabilities and prospects.
                    Quote: Baikonur
                    And then, who are you going to attack?

                    Do not attack, but counter-attack. :)
                    Quote: Baikonur
                    Russia has a defensive doctrine and it did not threaten anyone!

                    But now everyone is threatening us - the war is very possible. IMHO.
                    Quote: Baikonur
                    Finish, capture?

                    And how do you propose to win the war? Just defending yourself?
                  2. Alexey RA
                    Alexey RA 29 February 2016 17: 41
                    0
                    Quote: Baikonur
                    Military equipment is located on the BDK on the tank deck. These can be either main battle tanks weighing up to 60 tons (up to 13 units), armored personnel carriers or infantry fighting vehicles (up to 36 vehicles), or up to 300 paratroopers.

                    The BDK has one very big problem: for landing equipment, they need a flat section of the coast with a beach. And they make the landing themselves either near the coast at low speed, or even throwing themselves ashore.

                    That is, not only are the possible landing areas for the BDK limited, but the landing process itself resembles a shooting range: several hundred-meter targets, each of which has a battalion of marines, crawl in the fire zone in slow motion not just artillery, but even mortars and ATGM. And while they crawl to the shore ...
                    In a similar situation in Feodosia in 1941, landing in the German rear, ours almost lost the "Red Caucasus".

                    KVP also has problems - radius, seaworthiness and the same dimensions, coupled with low survivability. Even MZA is dangerous for them.

                    The only way to reduce landing losses at the stage of direct landing and landfall while maintaining the range and seaworthiness of a recreation center is to separate delivery to the landing zone and landing. I.e. a large mobile ship delivers the paratroopers to the transshipment zone, to which only anti-ship missiles and long-range MLRS / OTR can finish off, and then the landing goes to the shore in small maneuvering boats and helicopters. As a result, the enemy’s BO does not receive 3-4 slow large targets, but many times more fast and nimble ones, the defeat of one of which leads to much less landing losses.
              2. The comment was deleted.
              3. maxcor1974
                maxcor1974 27 February 2016 17: 36
                +1
                Eugene, do not argue with him, the man who was going to guard the Mistral Sevmorput client asylum ... Well, about the fact that they can still drive adversaries !!! This is a masterpiece !!!
                For mishe reference, to protect this trough, it will take half of the group that is currently serving in the Mediterranean, so bulk carriers will somehow be cheaper ...
                1. Misha Honest
                  Misha Honest 27 February 2016 18: 22
                  0
                  Quote: maxcor1974
                  Eugene, do not argue with him, the man who was going to guard the Mistral Sevmorput client asylum ... Well, about the fact that they can still drive adversaries !!! This is a masterpiece !!!

                  At least we found out that you know how to be rude. :)
                  Quote: maxcor1974
                  For mishe reference, to protect this trough, it will take half of the group that is currently serving in the Mediterranean, so bulk carriers will somehow be cheaper ...

                  And what, for the protection and escort of Kuznetsov we always are we sending such large groups directly?
            2. Stas157
              Stas157 27 February 2016 17: 27
              +4
              Quote: Misha Honest
              In the Far East - the first and main reason - Japan, the Kuril Islands ... continue to continue? winked And to Alaska in which case you are going to swim?

              Japan, Kuril Islands, Alaska ... What a strange row ... And what does the Mistral? Do you want to land on the Kuril Islands or in Japan with Alaska? Bastion and S-400 to the Kuril Islands and hello to Japan!
              1. Misha Honest
                Misha Honest 27 February 2016 17: 38
                +2
                Quote: Stas157
                Do you want to land on the Kuril Islands or in Japan with Alaska?

                I personally wouldn’t discount such options ... request After all, war cannot be defeated at the expense of defense alone, do you think so?
              2. gispanec
                gispanec 27 February 2016 20: 56
                -1
                Quote: Stas157
                Japan, Kuril Islands, Alaska ... What a strange row ... And what does the Mistral? Landing on the Kuril Islands

                fool negative stop
        2. Nick
          Nick 27 February 2016 15: 39
          +5
          Quote: Misha Honest
          Yes, the Mistral counterparts would be very useful for us in the Far East and the Northern Fleet - for sure. Perhaps on the southern seas too ...

          We adopted the technologies for the construction and assembly of modules from the French. There will be a need for large helicopter carriers - we will build it.
          1. andj61
            andj61 27 February 2016 18: 13
            +2
            Quote: Nick
            We adopted the technologies for the construction and assembly of modules from the French. There will be a need for large helicopter carriers - we will build it.

            That's right - the technologies are available ... We only have no large-capacity cranes for using such technologies. And in the near future they will definitely not be sold to us.
            1. Inok10
              Inok10 27 February 2016 18: 48
              +8
              Quote: andj61
              That's right - the technologies are available ... We only have no large-capacity cranes for using such technologies. And in the near future they will definitely not be sold to us.

              ... well, you guys are giving ... but why do we need to buy taps from someone ?! ... hello from Kaliningrad JSC "Baltkran" double-girder 250 item installed at Kaliningrad TPP 2 ... hi
              1. lelikas
                lelikas 27 February 2016 20: 39
                +4
                During the construction of Kuznetsov, he is Tbilisi, he is Brezhnev, he is also Riga and the Soviet Union (that's how he was lucky with the names), there were sections of 1400 tons. Baltkran has something to strive for!
                1. Inok10
                  Inok10 27 February 2016 21: 59
                  +3
                  Quote: lelikas
                  During the construction of Kuznetsov, he is Tbilisi, he is Brezhnev, he is also Riga and the Soviet Union (that's how he was lucky with the names), there were sections of 1400 tons. Baltkran has something to strive for!

                  ... when you read such a commentary, one always gets the impression ... that a "lonely individual" who is for one reason or another in an unstable psychosomatic state ... decided to evaluate the work of more than 1000 of his own fellow citizens who create real products from the category .. . "oh, we saw better" ... I will leave it on the conscience of the individual ... Novovoronezh NPP, the turbine hall crane of JSC Baltkran 500 tons ... what will be needed, this will be produced ... hi
                  1. Inok10
                    Inok10 27 February 2016 22: 08
                    +2
                    Quote: Inok10
                    JSC "Baltkran"

                    ... in 40 countries of the world and throughout Russia, the competence of Baltkran JSC is beyond doubt ... hi
                  2. andj61
                    andj61 27 February 2016 22: 43
                    +3
                    Quote: Inok10
                    Novovoronezh NPP, turbine hall crane of JSC Baltkran 500 tons ... whatever is needed, this will be produced ...

                    This is the MOST large crane that has been produced with us. We need at least three times more load capacity! Yes, and the span / height of the lift - also much more! We have never done this before ...
                    Baltkran makes medium tonnage - according to the world practice cranes, but not large tonnages.
                    1. gispanec
                      gispanec 27 February 2016 23: 08
                      -2
                      Quote: andj61
                      Baltkran makes medium tonnage - according to the world practice cranes, but not large tonnages.

                      to whom do you prove something ???? .... this diagnosis is not a disease .... they have Google help and a team ... a generation of Pepsi and others like them .... we NEVER built large-capacity cranes ..... and will not be built for another 15-20 years ..... and this is a fact .... but it’s on the drummers ... the main cry is hurray-aaa
                      1. poquello
                        poquello 28 February 2016 00: 22
                        +1
                        Quote: gispanec
                        Quote: andj61
                        Baltkran makes medium tonnage - according to the world practice cranes, but not large tonnages.

                        to whom do you prove something ???? .... this diagnosis is not a disease .... they have Google help and a team ... a generation of Pepsi and others like them .... we NEVER built large-capacity cranes ..... and will not be built for another 15-20 years ..... and this is a fact .... but it’s on the drummers ... the main cry is hurray-aaa

                        Well, why on the drum, if you are able to give reasons (other than economic), and I personally suspect that I am not able, then no drum, I listen very carefully to your arguments, especially against the background of the Egyptian pyramids
                      2. gispanec
                        gispanec 28 February 2016 08: 22
                        -2
                        Quote: poquello
                        if you are able to argue

                        Well, and what arguments do you need? ... try to buy a crane 1000-1500tn grp. ?? the only option would be Chinese, since Amerovsky will be much more expensive .. the British bought it in China for construction ...... well, you know that scooters are not produced in Russia .... (there is a licensed assembly, but not production) ... you know that computers are not assembled and you do not need arguments? !! ​​... just like that, we do not produce large-capacity cranes !! the main thing is to understand the word LARGE-DUTY ... otherwise we don’t read to the end and arrange hysteria ..
                      3. poquello
                        poquello 28 February 2016 12: 12
                        +4
                        Quote: gispanec
                        Quote: poquello
                        if you are able to argue

                        ... try to buy a crane 1000-1500tn grp. ?? the only option would be Chinese, since Amerovsky will be much more expensive .. the British bought it in China for construction ...... well, you know that scooters are not produced in Russia .... (there is a licensed assembly, but not production) ... you know that computers are not assembled and you do not need arguments? !! ​​... just like that, we do not produce large-capacity cranes !! the main thing to understand the word LARGE ....

                        Equipment of this class does not lie in warehouses ready for sale, it is manufactured after ordering, so all that the Chinese, Americans, etc. are documentation and good experience, for the implementation of the order IMHO will be ready to take on a few domestic enterprises and the question is only in price and terms, rather than opportunities, those are an economic issue. We produce computers, if you don’t know, but the reason for the small niche is economic and it is more difficult to pick up the market there, for mass production.
                        I don’t see any technical obstacles that our plot engineers will not count?
                      4. Inok10
                        Inok10 28 February 2016 22: 16
                        +4
                        Quote: poquello
                        Equipment of this class does not lie in warehouses ready for sale, it is made after order,

                        ... absolutely true ... by the principle of money in the morning, chairs in the evening ... there’s nothing technically difficult to implement with a single / double girder, two-body gantry crane ... the competence of one enterprise is enough ... hi
                2. feropont
                  feropont 28 February 2016 14: 39
                  +3
                  You are mistaken dear, why should they not be built ?????
                  You went through a thermal bath and compromising ...? .... I worked at the Far Eastern plant (I don’t say what it is called) .... for your money and for your project, anything ...
              2. lelikas
                lelikas 28 February 2016 15: 54
                0
                Quote: andj61
                Baltkran makes medium tonnage - according to world practice cranes, but not large tonnage

                Don’t scare him like that, otherwise he’ll really build 1,5 kilotons, and nobody will buy - the whole plant will go bankrupt. laughing
            2. lelikas
              lelikas 28 February 2016 15: 53
              0
              But leave your own diagnoses - we don’t need to know anything. hi
        3. andj61
          andj61 27 February 2016 22: 42
          +1
          Quote: Inok10
          ... well, you guys are giving ... but why do we need to buy taps from someone ?! ... hello from Kaliningrad JSC "Baltkran" two-girder 250 tons installed at Kaliningrad CHP 2 ..

          What is 250 tons where 1500 is required?
          1. Inok10
            Inok10 27 February 2016 23: 18
            +4
            Quote: andj61
            This is the MOST large crane that has been produced with us. We need at least three times more load capacity! Yes, and the span / height of the lift - also much more! We have never done this before ...

            ... Are you telling the Kaliningrader what Baltkran JSC can and cannot? ... laughing
            ... You are not satisfied with a span of 45 meters and a height of at least 60 at the Novovoronezh NPP? ... I proceed from the photo in height ... and what do your requirements mean?
            - across the span
            - height of rise
            - also much more!
            . ay, what exactly are we talking about ?! ... class A cranes from 360 item at JSC "Baltkran" of its own design and manufacture ... no problem! ... the TAVKR "Admiral of the Soviet Union Kuznetsov" has a height of 65 m and a width of 72 m. ... We didn’t do that ?! ... 30 years ago! ... the question now is whether they will order it or not! ... that's the question ... I don’t put a minus in principle, it's disgusting just .
            1. andj61
              andj61 28 February 2016 08: 01
              +2
              Quote: Inok10
              TAVKR "Admiral of the Soviet Union Kuznetsov" dimensions in height 65 m, width 72 m ... we didn’t do that ?! ... 30 years ago! ... the only question now is whether they will order or not! ... that is the question ..

              As for the minuses - this is nonsense, a natural childhood. And this TAVKR was built in Nikolaev, and the gantry cranes for this shipyard were not Soviet at all - they were purchased specifically for these cruisers, and their load capacity was only 900 tons, but a minimum was necessary! - 1500 tons And these cranes are now not in Russia at all. Before declaring peremptorily, one must at least raise information about this ... hi
              1. Inok10
                Inok10 28 February 2016 22: 36
                +4
                Quote: andj61
                and the gantry cranes for this shipyard are not Soviet at all - they were purchased specifically for these cruisers, and their load capacity is only 900 tons, but a minimum is necessary! - 1500 tons

                ... they were Finnish, but there is an indirectly confirmed theory that the cranes themselves were developed in the USSR, and Finland simply handed over the manufacture, an indirect confirmation that the Soviet specialists installed and commissioned, that is, the installers knew by heart all the technological installation diagram and device, and this is not possible without the availability of technical documentation ... (in the attached photo) ... 2 X 900 tons = 1800 tons ... but the conversation was for saying that you didn’t say anything to us shines in cranes of such capacity ... to what was reasonably answered to you ... there will be an order, there will be a crane ... and I still remain in this position ... and I repeat again, there is not any technological complexity in 2016 make a two-girder two / three trolley gantry crane with a nominal value of 1500 tons ... hi
                1. Alexey RA
                  Alexey RA 29 February 2016 18: 06
                  0
                  Quote: Inok10
                  ... they were Finnish, but there is an indirectly confirmed theory that the cranes themselves were developed in the USSR, and Finland was simply given over to manufacture

                  Cranes for Nikolaev were made by Konecranes firm which is division of KONE corporation. They have been making heavy lifting cranes since 1933.

                  As for installation and commissioning, this is the eternal disease of Soviet industry, whose name is petty economy. Even in Stalin's times, reports were regularly sent from the NKVD that the equipment was purchased, but either they could not assemble it, or they collected it for too long, having broken all the deadlines - because they refused to install it by the manufacturer's specialists. So with the "Goliaths" Kone did, apparently, the same - the equipment was bought, and they saved on installation.
    3. gispanec
      gispanec 27 February 2016 21: 00
      -3
      Quote: Nick
      There will be a need for large helicopter carriers - we will build it.

      who and where ... answer !!! ... and deadlines .... you are our smart ...
  2. The comment was deleted.
  3. maxcor1974
    maxcor1974 27 February 2016 17: 23
    +2
    Misha Honest RU Yes, the Mistral counterparts would be very useful for us in the Far East and the Northern Fleet right now. Perhaps on the southern seas too ...

    Sorry, colleague, I am from Arkhangelsk, I bring to your attention that, with the exception of rarely freezing Murmansk, the rest of the Northern Seas is covered with ice for most of the year. What the hell are you doing here? To hunt polar bears?
    1. Misha Honest
      Misha Honest 27 February 2016 17: 42
      +2
      Quote: maxcor1974
      Sorry, colleague, I am from Arkhangelsk, I bring to your attention that, with the exception of rarely freezing Murmansk, the rest of the Northern Seas is covered with ice for most of the year. What the hell are you doing here? To hunt polar bears?

      We need an icebreaker-type docking ship - otherwise, in the north, nothing.
      1. The comment was deleted.
  4. Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 27 February 2016 21: 50
    +2
    Quote: Misha Honest
    Quote: lelikas
    And he is now required, not even one. That's just nowhere to take.

    Yes, the Mistral counterparts would be very useful for us in the Far East and the Northern Fleet - for sure. Perhaps on the southern seas too ...


    Requires Mistral and more than one. "Baikonur" was short - why?
    North. Landing in Norway? Or take away their islands, right up to the New Earth, captured by the adversary? So may not let him to the islands. And to sail on French-built ships in the Arctic, is this provided in the Terms of Reference? There are no goals for these garages.
    Far East. Landing on the Kuril Islands. With the superiority of the fleets of the USA and Japan, we have nothing to shine on. Great distance from the mainland. See - Falkland War.
    The transition from defense to attack, as they write below to storm Alaska. If this comes to that, the United States will not pull, immediately nuclear weapons.
    The South Seas, now, perhaps, there is no adversary yet. And as soon as at least with Turkey, the boat is gone. And from where it arrives is not known.
    We need BDK with helicopters but for theaters of the Baltic and Black Sea. For fear of sprats and other Swedes. And going out into the ocean without having an overwhelming advantage, it’s you who got excited.
    1. Misha Honest
      Misha Honest 27 February 2016 23: 50
      0
      Quote: Mavrikiy
      North. Landing in Norway? Or take away their islands, right up to the New Earth, captured by the adversary? So may not let him to the islands. And to sail on French-built ships in the Arctic, is this provided in the Terms of Reference? There are no goals for these garages.

      Yes, on occasion you can look at the Norwegians, British, Greenlands, etc. (there are more than enough opponents there). Actually, there are plenty of alien islands there, but I don’t say anything about the number of our polar islands - there are a lot of them - you can’t build military bases at all ... You can only sail to the bottom of French-built ships - I’m talking about Russian developments, and ice-class platform ships are needed - others there will be useless in the future ...
      Quote: Mavrikiy
      Far East. Landing on the Kuril Islands. With the superiority of the fleets of the USA and Japan, we have nothing to shine on. Great distance from the mainland. See - Falkland War.
      The transition from defense to attack, as they write below to storm Alaska. If this comes to that, the United States will not pull, immediately nuclear weapons.

      If the United States and Japan fight together only against us, then here we are in flight, with or without platforms. However, if China is added here, which, in theory, does not miss the chance to deal with Japan and Taiwan ... then the Falkland War factor is already playing for the USA. request But in the scenario of the conflict in the Far East there are too many unpredictable factors - the east is still a delicate matter.
      At the expense of nuclear weapons - everything is possible, the main thing is that all life on the planet will come to an end. Here I do not know the protocols.
      Quote: Mavrikiy
      We need BDK with helicopters but for theaters of the Baltic and Black Sea.

      I agree with this.
      Quote: Mavrikiy
      And going out into the ocean without having an overwhelming advantage, it’s you who got excited.

      And when was this in the entire history of Russia we had an overwhelming advantage? :)

      Look at the number of islands on the map - and that's not all ...
    2. lelikas
      lelikas 28 February 2016 15: 58
      +1
      Quote: Mavrikiy


      Somewhere in the General Staff, this time a lonely secretary is crying!
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 29 February 2016 18: 08
        0
        Quote: lelikas
        Somewhere in the General Staff, this time a lonely secretary is crying!

        And somewhere in the building of "Gosuzhas" (on the square with a pedestal without a monument) a police officer is now quite rubbing his hands. smile
  5. Agent_017
    Agent_017 27 February 2016 22: 16
    -1
    Isn't there in the country shipyards capable of carrying out such ships as the Mistral? There is of course, so why should we pay abroad to organize and pay for their jobs? We have enough specialists for the unemployed ... GIVE WORK !!!!
  • Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 27 February 2016 14: 16
    +9
    [quote = lelikas] [/ quote]
    The fact that the ships were built in Poland and Germany is normal, this freed up their shipyards, but the fact that everything was pumped up later is not normal. [/ Quote]
    Sorry I can not agree. Not enough capacity, lay down new shipyards. They will not be missed further. We went to a constant increase in needs. I think ships were built in the socialist countries so that they had something to take for our supplies. But it was necessary to take roughly machine tools and equipment for shipyards.
    1. Horst78
      Horst78 27 February 2016 14: 35
      +8
      Quote: Mavrikiy
      Sorry I can not agree. Not enough power lay new shipyards. They will not be missed further. We went to a constant increase in needs. I think in Socialist countries built ships so that they had something to take for our supplies. And it was necessary to take roughly machine tools and equipment for shipyards.

      I disagree. in the Socialist camp they built on the principle "You are ours." Thereby giving direct economic support. Therefore, the type of "license" for weapons, tanks, etc. gave.
    2. lelikas
      lelikas 27 February 2016 14: 47
      11
      Quote: Mavrikiy
      Not enough capacity, lay new shipyards

      The planned economy, however, was built as much as they could raise and provide with specialists. Building a new shipyard is more difficult than a cosmodrome, and someone also needs to work on it. It is possible to recruit several thousand skilled workers only from other shipyards, which is why most of the auxiliary ships and vessels were built from colleagues, again, no one canceled CMEA then. Loss of losses - the shipyard in Nikolaev, and so, nothing prevents the building of ships, practically of any tonnage and rank, and only "Ivan Gren" persistently proves the opposite.
    3. Maksus
      Maksus 27 February 2016 16: 41
      +5
      Auxiliary, small and amphibious ships were built at foreign shipyards, all ships of 2-1 ranks were built only at our shipyards. Well, we don’t have such a place in the country where you can build everything and a lot. And with non-freezing ports, we are not in a very good situation. It was a logical decision. But a couple of sensible UDC, it would really be useful for us to have, not Mistral, but more sane type of Japanese Izumo. Or such - like the American Spearheads.
      1. poquello
        poquello 27 February 2016 17: 17
        +4
        Quote: Maksus
        ... But a couple of sensible UDC, it would really be useful for us to have, not Mistral, but more sane type of Japanese Izumo. Or such - like the American Spearheads.

        is it about them?
        The first EPF ship, purchased in 2012, after testing in a turbulent sea, required repairs in the amount of 511 thousand dollars. Repair of each of the next three ships cost $ 1,2 million. Fifth ship also awaiting repair

        http://vz.ru/news/2016/1/16/789027.html
        1. Maksus
          Maksus 27 February 2016 17: 42
          +1
          Interesting, only stupid statistics - the first ship in 2012, the second - 2013, the third and fourth —2014, the fifth and sixth —2015. All at once on the tests broke. What is the bad habit of bantering Americans with or without? Not all news regarding their defense industry is ridiculous.
          1. Sergey S.
            Sergey S. 27 February 2016 18: 14
            +2
            Quote: Maksus
            What is the bad habit of bantering Americans with or without? Not all news regarding their defense industry is ridiculous.

            I agree with you, with the exception of this particular case.

            High-speed "wave cutters" are clearly not for long-term combat services.
            And what about these ships in conditions close to limiting seaworthiness, we must ask the sailors ... And in what state will the paratroopers after storming on such a ship ...

            So far, as far as I remember, the Americans tried to adapt these ships for the Navy, and what happened here is already being discussed ... not every civilian vessel is repainted enough to be a warship.
            And the Chinese also built something similar ... But from those honest conclusions about the result of the development of ships, we will not find in the open press.
            1. Maksus
              Maksus 27 February 2016 19: 53
              0
              So they are not declared as all-weather. The landing force on them can be loaded before landing, and it is not intended for landing on the shore - it’s just high-speed transport, an ordinary slightly militarized steam. On the Mediterranean or between the islands scurry - the very thing. Yes, he has the only ramp and the one in the stern.
        2. 11 black
          11 black 27 February 2016 19: 43
          +3
          Quote: poquello
          is it about them?

          About them - but these are trifles - one cannot but admit that these ships would be extremely effective for the Syrian express, with their speed 1 would replace the 2-3 BDK
          1. poquello
            poquello 27 February 2016 23: 56
            0
            Quote: 11 black
            Quote: poquello
            is it about them?

            ... with their speed 1 would replace 2-3 BDK

            Not higher than the ekranoplanes then? yes with dropable platforms.
            What a habit to look in the ass abroad and think that this is a masterpiece.
            1. 11 black
              11 black 28 February 2016 10: 53
              +3
              Quote: poquello
              Not higher than the ekranoplanes then? yes with dropable platforms.
              What a habit to look in the ass abroad and think that this is a masterpiece.

              Do you disagree that these ships capable of carrying 635 tons of payload over 1200 miles at cruising speeds of 35 knots would be very useful for delivering goods to Syria?
              Quote: poquello
              Not higher than the ekranoplanes then?

              This is the same WIG 600 tons of cargo capable of taking?
              And isn’t it easier to send IL-76 than an ekranoplan?
              What a foolish habit to consider all NATO technology as something dull, we had many masterpieces in rocket science, in tank engineering, in aviation - even the AK-47 was a masterpiece in its own way, but why did you decide that they can only be with us?
              JHSV ship with its own shortcomings, but also with its own merits - and if someone looking at a foreign country sees only his ass, then this is his problem yes
              1. poquello
                poquello 28 February 2016 12: 46
                0
                Quote: 11 black
                .
                This is the same WIG 600 tons of cargo capable of taking?

                Russian, and let the Americans ride on unfinished planes.
                The Syrians are delighted with the AK-104, from which you decided that our masterpieces ended.
                1. 11 black
                  11 black 29 February 2016 18: 25
                  0
                  Quote: poquello
                  Russian, and let the Americans ride on unfinished planes.

                  What Russian - what nonsense! Neither Russia nor the USSR have ever had such ekranoplanes - there wasn’t even any similarity!
                  Quote: poquello
                  AK-104 Syrians are thrilled

                  And I am delighted with the fourth size, but what does the ekranoplanes have to do with it? laughing
                  Quote: poquello
                  where did you decide that our masterpieces ended

                  I would never say such stupidity, I don’t even understand why you got it, as if I decided so ... I just say that Western countries also have decent things, and that the boats would be useful to us now. hi
  • Asadullah
    Asadullah 27 February 2016 14: 19
    14
    but the fact that then all was pumped up is not normal.


    Looking for someone. In Gaidar times, this documentation was destroyed by the conveyor, non-stop. In all research institutes, design bureaus at factories, in short, wherever possible. The only thing was the leaders for whom this was the meaning of their whole life. They hid a lot from that, in different places. From attics to bomb shelters. This article makes much more clear than just information. A completely different life of the country begins.
    1. BARKHAN
      BARKHAN 27 February 2016 15: 41
      +5
      Quote: Asadullah
      In Gaidar times, this documentation was destroyed by the conveyor, non-stop. In all research institutes, design bureaus at factories, in short, wherever possible.

      Any problem ALWAYS! closes to a specific person who has a name, surname, position. And it will not be difficult to name them, and if you want to bring to justice. Another question is that these people did not leave the government, with a few exceptions.
      It is impossible to build a palace if you build a toilet. Capitalism is a dead end of the normal development of mankind, turning into feudalism.
      Oligarchs and "families" will always tear states apart in order to fix them in a separate "principality".
      1. Asadullah
        Asadullah 27 February 2016 16: 39
        +5
        Capitalism is a dead end to the normal development of mankind, turning into feudalism.


        The question is dialectics. The CCP is building the most powerful state on earth with capitalism. The European liberal method of capitalism led to the substitution of the basic concepts of dormitory, and all efforts were directed to explain and legitimize this. American capitalism, blowing financial bubbles, led to the creation of alchemy from the economy, when the concept of accumulation turned into a mirage, and borrowed capital became cheaper than personal capital. As if with all this, humanity is developing science, art, culture and enlightenment, and the system, formation, ideology, at least, should not interfere. Unfortunately, in the civilization of people, the factor of fool and lazy person dominates. The most dangerous is the symbiosis of the two. Then from any progressive idea you can fashion an eight-winged seven-member. And not just fashion, but even exploit and propagate ....
        1. BARKHAN
          BARKHAN 27 February 2016 18: 48
          +2
          Quote: Asadullah
          Capitalism is a dead end to the normal development of mankind, turning into feudalism.


          The question is dialectics. The CCP is building the most powerful state on earth with capitalism. The European liberal method of capitalism led to the substitution of the basic concepts of dormitory, and all efforts were directed to explain and legitimize this. American capitalism, blowing financial bubbles, led to the creation of alchemy from the economy, when the concept of accumulation turned into a mirage, and borrowed capital became cheaper than personal capital. As if with all this, humanity is developing science, art, culture and enlightenment, and the system, formation, ideology, at least, should not interfere. Unfortunately, in the civilization of people, the factor of fool and lazy person dominates. The most dangerous is the symbiosis of the two. Then from any progressive idea you can fashion an eight-winged seven-member. And not just fashion, but even exploit and propagate ....

          But there is also the Norwegian version of socialism, bypassing the wild market for the survival of the fittest. Well, the fittest is always armed, this is the easiest way to compete effectively, to dominate from a position of strength. And, as power actions are presented to the electorate, specially trained and fed media will take care.
          1. Asadullah
            Asadullah 27 February 2016 21: 17
            +3
            But there is still the Norwegian version of socialism, bypassing the wild market for the survival of the fittest.


            There is one, but at the same time they have turned almost all of their population into vegetables. A few Natsiks stand out from the general crowd, and even that, for the sake of fashion. I call this formation socialism of molten cheese, it is poured under any piece of bread, or cracker. In this case, an American cracker.
            1. BARKHAN
              BARKHAN 27 February 2016 21: 29
              +3
              Quote: Asadullah
              There is one, but at the same time they have turned almost all of their population into vegetables.

              Dear, I had in mind that having vast territories with innumerable reserves of all the best, one could build smart living conditions for their citizens. At least affordable real housing, medicine, education, work ... laughing that is, to return to the USSR. But how smart people should not think of turning the population into vegetables. I’m sure that if we had been given such an instruction, we would have quietly come up with cognac for one night out without institutes and thousands officials.
              Do you think that the population constantly needs to be in the tone of the struggle for a place in the sun so as not to become a vegetable?
              1. Asadullah
                Asadullah 27 February 2016 22: 14
                +3
                Dear, I had in mind that having vast territories with innumerable reserves of all the best, one could build smart living conditions for their citizens. At least affordable real housing, medicine, education, work ... laughing, that is, return to the USSR. that’s how smart people shouldn’t turn vegetables into vegetables. I’m sure that if we had been given this instruction, we would have quietly come up with cognac for one night out without institutes and thousands of officials.
                Do you think that the population constantly needs to be in the tone of the struggle for a place in the sun so as not to become a vegetable?


                laughing Well, here I am sitting alone, on enemy territory, and I finish zero seven otard, on Saturday night. You correctly caught the thought, the degree of suffering, awakens all feelings in the soul, both high and low. At the same time, the greatest desire, happiness to all and a lot. But perhaps we won’t write out recipes, for happiness is the capital of each person individually. Its components, indifference, mind, will, kindness. Probably love too. This, perhaps, cannot be bestowed either with resources or with social benefits. It remains only to love your people, your country and your woman.
                1. BARKHAN
                  BARKHAN 27 February 2016 22: 36
                  +1
                  Quote: Asadullah
                  Well, here I am sitting alone, on enemy territory, and I finish zero seven otard, on Saturday night.

                  Be healthy! Or, as they say in American films, HEALTH! drinks
                  Well, the Motherland, the greatness of its citizen, a decent life, so the national idea is pecking out. In fact, each of us (even thieves in power) knows perfectly well what is good and what is bad. Believe me, it knows perfectly well and fully understands their sins. And the question is not that the changes will not be painlessly carried out. But without the amputation of the "gangrenous formations" death will come to the whole organism. There are only two options. Wait and watch how it all ends, or amputate.
  • ver_
    ver_ 27 February 2016 14: 25
    -3
    ... Mistral, we need a stop signal like a hare, or a dog’s fifth leg ... Anachraon do things bygone days ...
    1. gispanec
      gispanec 27 February 2016 15: 12
      0
      Quote: ver_
      Mistral we need as a hare stop signal, or a dog fifth leg.

      you guessed it or suggested who ?? ... well, farted and then ?? ... explain WHY ??? ... what to go to Syria ?? ... examples of calculations and technical justification .... no? belay then in negative
      1. Asadullah
        Asadullah 27 February 2016 16: 55
        +4
        what to go to syria ?? ..


        And not only. The ability to concentrate a powerful strike group in the short time before the start of the b \ d. And during the war, there are other tasks. Mistrals are needed and they will be. Maybe not as fast as the French.
  • max702
    max702 27 February 2016 15: 20
    +1
    Quote: lelikas
    And he is now required, not even one. That's just nowhere to take

    Yes, they certainly would not have been superfluous ... They were not slashed to us at all for the Crimea and the Ruinda, there are not bad analysts sitting there and considered that having hacked these projects would pretty much spoil our logistics in Syria ... in the end, it’s just money, but it would be real ships made of metal. Where did you spend that billion that you received (maybe received, but not the fact) from the French? Correctly bought American money! Thus, supporting the economy of the most likely enemy! Agree, this is a much more "profitable" investment .. And right now we carry goods to Syria on rusty vessels by a teaspoon per hour .. It seems to me that Mistrals would have worked out the entire resource in the Syrian express, how much could I take there at a time?
    1. lelikas
      lelikas 27 February 2016 16: 02
      +4
      Quote: max702
      It seems to me that Mistral would have worked out the whole resource in the Syrian express, how much could one take there at a time?

      They wouldn’t work out, but one Mistral would drag like one BDK in three flights.
    2. common man
      common man 27 February 2016 16: 49
      0
      Quote: max702
      hacking these projects will spoil our logistics in Syria

      To carry ammunition and weapons to Syria by a helicopter carrier? Is something stupid you can think of? In principle, the BDK needs to be replaced with car ferries. Plus bulk carriers and tankers. Everything is under the naval flag. More in theory and not necessary. But as far as I understand, there are no ferries, so they drive the BDK, burn the resource.
      1. Maksus
        Maksus 27 February 2016 17: 45
        +3
        Mistral is still a ferry, not a helicopter carrier. Conventional roller deck with flight deck. It is designed specifically for the landing, there you can shove so many trucks in the hangar ....
      2. gispanec
        gispanec 27 February 2016 21: 03
        -4
        Quote: man in the street
        Is something stupid you can think of? In principle, the BDK needs to be replaced with car ferries.

        fool two morons is power, and when there are a lot of them, this is already a disease ...
      3. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 29 February 2016 18: 25
        +1
        Quote: man in the street
        In principle, the BDK needs to be replaced with car ferries.

        Do you want to run the Halzan rake again?
        I can even predict how everything will be.
        1. First, the design bureau will issue a preliminary design of a cheap UDC based on a roller. The Navy will kill the project - low survivability + weak weapons.
        2. The design bureau will issue a second draft design based on a rocker with a maximum approximation to the requirements of the Navy. They will receive a ship that cannot be built in the base hull of a civilian ship, and which, with great interference and not at all points, fits into the minimum minimum requirements of the Navy. The project will be sent for revision.
        3. The design bureau will issue a preliminary design of the UDC special construction with the fulfillment of all the requirements of the Navy. The Navy will approve the project ... but it suddenly turns out that this UDC can only be costed instead of ships of rank 1 on a single large slipway / dock. And the history of domestic UDC will once again come to a logical ending: no one will exchange the strike ship for the landing.
        1. common man
          common man 1 March 2016 15: 58
          0
          Quote: Alexey RA
          Do you want to run the Halzan rake again?

          Well no. I just meant to take a ready-made civilian ferry, take it to the Navy and carry equipment to Syria, in peacetime. Hang the St. Andrew’s flag so that they don’t get in there who are not asked (inspectors), and the military crew was there.
  • Tor5
    Tor5 27 February 2016 17: 46
    +2
    It is quite logical! Our shipyards built something that was not trusted by foreign ones.
    1. gispanec
      gispanec 27 February 2016 20: 04
      -4
      Quote: Tor5
      It is quite logical! Our shipyards built something that was not trusted by foreign ones.

      Are you sure you are not sick ??? fool
  • The comment was deleted.
  • lis-ik
    lis-ik 27 February 2016 14: 50
    +2
    Then it was the "Warsaw Pact", as if not foreign.
  • Juborg
    Juborg 27 February 2016 15: 36
    +4
    This is the thing! It was high time to do this, even before the sanctions, and not to reduce and destroy the army, as the liberals bequeathed.
  • Finntroll
    Finntroll 27 February 2016 16: 22
    +7
    Those ships on which the technical documentation was restored were built in a completely different country, "in a completely different world." Mistrals would come to us with all the technical documentation for the contract. And no matter what whoever said what, we really needed THESE ships, even in the same Syria, or elementary from the point of view of mathematics, two full-fledged modern combat units. Ordering ships abroad is a necessary measure, because we do not have enough capacities, everything that can now work normally and more or less trouble-free, works, builds and repairs. There is no required number of highly qualified personnel, they need to be raised, it is very expensive and very long, just money, time.
    1. lelikas
      lelikas 27 February 2016 16: 43
      +2
      Quote: FinnTroll
      FinnTroll Today, 16:22 ↑

      What a wrong troll! ;) +
  • Gray brother
    Gray brother 27 February 2016 17: 40
    0
    Quote: Mavrikiy
    Yes, the consequences of overseas shipments.

    These are the consequences of the collapse of the USSR.
  • alexmach
    alexmach 27 February 2016 20: 25
    +2
    And what was better to not have these 450 ships at all?
    You will say too. It’s not just foreign deliveries, it was our allies. We shared a common command with the army and shared plans for day X.
  • Agent_017
    Agent_017 27 February 2016 22: 09
    +1
    How could the defense industry be ordered externally? And if the weapon begins to self-destruct at all? You can’t give defense orders to other countries, this is the worst crime. So they destroyed their own, and other countries were lucky to develop factories and plants of the military-industrial complex? In our country, is it really impossible to build your own and do everything there for the defense industry and space? We have everything in our country, but there are no jobs, light, medium and heavy industry - and this is the foundation of the state .. The people are poor, and the rich swell even more from gold .. Is it impossible to create jobs on the basis of the state, organize retraining specialists or from the very beginning to learn their patriots in industry?
    Eh ...
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 29 February 2016 18: 33
      0
      Quote: Agent_017
      How could the defense industry be ordered externally? And if the weapon begins to self-destruct at all? You can’t give defense orders to other countries, this is the worst crime

      Do you want to argue with Comrade Stalin, under whom all the large ships of the fleet were built with the technical assistance of Ansaldo? smile
      And not only from the technical point of view - the Italians supplied us with mechanisms for the Kirov KRL, PUAO, anti-aircraft guns. And of course - the best leader of the Navy, project 20I "Tashkent".
      However, besides the Italians, there were also the British (12 Vickers GTZA for domestic EMs), the Swiss (Brown-Boveri GTZA for the head LK pr. 23), and the Germans (main engine turrets for domestic LKR pr. 69I). In 1940-1941, even our quadruple anti-aircraft machine guns for LK and KR were bought from Vickers.

      Or maybe you want to argue with dear Leonid Ilyich, at which the Finnish shipyards (first of all - "Vyartsilya") built us from tugs and floating bases to unique deep-sea vehicles and nuclear icebreakers?
  • vodolaz
    vodolaz 27 February 2016 23: 28
    +1
    Well that's good of course. Do not write off a good ship if it has not exhausted its resource?
  • Pvi1206
    Pvi1206 27 February 2016 13: 43
    11
    Good start. Repaired ships can still benefit Russia for a long time. Yes, and cheaper than re-creating.
    1. weksha50
      weksha50 27 February 2016 17: 59
      +2
      Quote: Pvi1206
      Yes, and cheaper than re-creating.



      You still need to create new ones ...
      These ships were extended (prolonged) life by 5, from the strength of 10 years, and then what ???
  • parafoiler
    parafoiler 27 February 2016 13: 46
    +2
    I already thought it was a sinful thing that all these masterpieces of engineering in the socialist countries. nail camps went a long time ago ...
    1. lelikas
      lelikas 27 February 2016 14: 01
      +3
      Quote: parafoiler
      I already thought it was a sinful thing that all these masterpieces of engineering in the socialist countries. nail camps went a long time ago ...

      Projects and we have been developed.
    2. kapitan92
      kapitan92 27 February 2016 14: 10
      +7
      Quote: parafoiler
      these masterpieces of engineering in the soc. nail camps went a long time ago ...

      BDK project 775 (type of Azov), built in Polish Gdansk (1974-91).
      The news is certainly good, but it should have been done "yesterday." The most recent BDK is soon 25 years old, and the older ones are about 40 years old.
    3. donavi49
      donavi49 27 February 2016 14: 15
      +5
      So, what about the replacement ???

      Here's an example of BDK? The core of the fleet of the Poles is 775. There is 1 Gren who will be handed over this year, and 3-4 Tapira, who, frankly speaking, are already over forty (Saratov has been in service since 66, Orsk with 68, Vilkov with 74, and Filchenkov with 75).

      Or IPC - all of the 6 IPCs of the glorious BF were built in Volgast, according to the GDR localization of the Albatross project, with the replacement of many systems and weapons.

      And also auxiliary vessels, tugboats, special ships - which were ordered in the socialist camp in the USSR and there really is no replacement for them. Only small tugboats began to do less, thanks to the procurement of Norwegian and Swedish projects in Pella and their localization. Port ships, but so far only 2 from Pella. BGK is gradually building new ones.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 29 February 2016 18: 34
        0
        Quote: donavi49
        So, what about the replacement ???

        "Gren", obviously ... this year - the first, in 5 years - the second. laughing
  • RomanS
    RomanS 27 February 2016 13: 47
    +5
    Great news! When the real results of engineering and design work are visible. So import substitution is not just a declaration.
  • Great-grandfather of Zeus
    Great-grandfather of Zeus 27 February 2016 13: 57
    +3
    More money for repairs will remain in Russia, more work for our shipyards and repair shops.
  • xam0
    xam0 27 February 2016 14: 00
    +2
    The BDK are working hard on the Syrian Express and keeping them up and running is a very good thing. And it is time to completely abandon dependence on foreign "partners", it is good that progress is being made in this direction.
  • Lone wolf
    Lone wolf 27 February 2016 14: 00
    +4
    “For several decades, naturally, all ties with the enterprises and designers of these ships have disappeared. Therefore, a number of scientific organizations and institutes that deal with military ship repair, the functions of technical support designers have been taken over, ”said the source.
    Life makes us do it ... and it’s better to repair and build ships ourselves than to trust this to NATO, kind uncles .... Mistral is a confirmation and example ....
  • Primus pilus
    Primus pilus 27 February 2016 14: 02
    +5
    From July 6, 2013 to October 24, 2014, Caesar Kunikov underwent repairs at the Navy Arsenal shipyard in Varna (Bulgaria)
  • onix757
    onix757 27 February 2016 14: 28
    +5
    The restoration of the documentation of Soviet projects is an absolute success. It was the 26th year of the independent and rapid development of industry in the Russian Federation ..
  • Para bellum
    Para bellum 27 February 2016 14: 29
    +1
    [quote = Mavrikiy] [quote = Lelikas] [/ quote]
    The fact that the ships were built in Poland and Germany is normal, this freed up their shipyards, but the fact that everything was pumped up later is not normal. [/ Quote]
    Sorry I can not agree. Not enough capacity, lay down new shipyards. They will not be missed further. We went to a constant increase in needs. I think ships were built in the socialist countries so that they had something to take for our supplies. And it was necessary to take roughly machine tools and equipment for shipyards. [/ Quote]
    Sorry, I do not quite agree with you either. In addition to the availability of free shipyards, you also need time for their construction. Purchasing ships abroad is normal practice. Varangians, for example, were also built in America.
    1. padded jacket
      padded jacket 27 February 2016 14: 35
      +8
      It's a good thing to "patch up" and upgrade these ships - BUT NEVER BUILD MILITARY SHIPS AND OTHER MILITARY EQUIPMENT ABROAD.
      Civil courts - please, you can also abroad, but the military only at the shipyards of Russia.
      1. gispanec
        gispanec 27 February 2016 15: 15
        -12 qualifying.
        Quote: quilted jacket
        Civil courts - please, you can also abroad, but the military only at the shipyards of Russia.

        I have no words... fool
        1. Paranoid50
          Paranoid50 27 February 2016 16: 16
          +6
          Quote: gispanec
          I have no words...

          Dear Gispanec, I perfectly understand you and even partly share your sarcasm, but, damn it, you would have just briefly, but succinctly and intelligibly expanded the idea on the topic, you see, and people will stop writing heresy. And then, by God, like in kindergarten: "I know better, but I won't tell you, because you are all fools." As for the topic, here I have a purely "selfish" interest - BDK and KFOR. To this day, I closely follow everything that happens among the Marines, and I have never met any information so that in any divisions the skills of walking on water were practiced ... Moreover, equipment, in quantity according to the state, is all that needs to be delivered and PLANTED rather than DOWNLOAD. EMNIP, there are now only four recreation centers at the KSF, the "youngest" one is 1985 ... Four battalions ...
          1. gispanec
            gispanec 27 February 2016 20: 03
            -5
            Quote: Paranoid50
            Dear Gispanec, I understand you very well and even partially share your sarcasm, but, damn it, you would have briefly, but succinctly and intelligibly unfolded the thought on the topic, you see, and people will stop writing heresy

            got tired of writing in a very specific form for 1.5 years .... the topic is all messy ... there are uryakalka with a stupid approach ... "a suitcase without a handle" ... but none of them wrote that they are building the Russian Navy that walks the seas in a single copy and is a real shock complex ... who should write something ?? ... even in their eyes ... - they will say dew ... just put a minus and it's good ... they don't stupidly childishly
    2. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 27 February 2016 20: 50
      +2
      [quote = Para bellum]
      [/ quote] Forgive me, I also do not quite agree with you. In addition to the availability of free shipyards, you also need time for their construction. Purchasing ships abroad is normal practice. Varangians, for example, were also built in America. [/ Quote]
      I must sadden you. The example with the "Varyag" is extremely unsuccessful, just as the cruiser itself is unsuccessful. Rather, this is an example of how not to do it. However, our construction series (3 ships) "Diana" was no better. We got excellent cruisers from Germany.
      But "Varyag" was built for 3 years, and "Diana" for 4,5 years. If we removed our bureaucracy and red tape, then it would be possible to build a Varyag at our shipyards.
      As for the landings on the Kuril Islands with tanks, BMP ... I have a tight fantasy, I won’t subscribe. After the attacks on the American landing, we will lose them and their fate will be decided after the war.
      The Falkland War showed how it would be. Great remoteness from our mainland, on which there is little.
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 29 February 2016 18: 42
        0
        Quote: Mavrikiy
        If we removed our bureaucracy and red tape, then it would be possible to build a Varyag at our shipyards.

        I'm afraid. that in our shipyards we would get another "sleepy goddess". To remove the bureaucracy and red tape, it was necessary to break the entire system and give the CVD to private hands.
        Because the main source of problems in the construction of ships were the ITC and the leadership of the fleet, whose "invariably valuable" instructions sometimes led to a complete redesign of ships already completed by the development or to "cutting on the living" on ships already built. Precisely because of regular changes by the Customer of projects and specifications, RIF actually did not have a single ship of the same type. and the CVD could not take advantage of the serial construction.

        The difference between the originally state-owned plant and the recently transferred to the treasury private is clearly visible on the example of 3 EBRs of the "Peresvet" type: the former private Baltic plant managed to hand over to the fleet and send 2 EBRs ("Pobeda" and "Peresvet") to the Far East, while the Admiralty plant built one ("Oslyabya"), who, moreover, was late for DalVas by the beginning of the war. Moreover, the head in the series was precisely the EBR of the state-owned plant.
  • Nikolay71
    Nikolay71 27 February 2016 14: 38
    +5
    Quote: Baikonur
    Quote: Misha Honest
    Yes, the Mistral counterparts would be very useful for us in the Far East and the Northern Fleet - for sure. Perhaps on the southern seas too ...

    And you do not bother to explain - Why?
    we would be very useful now
    regarding the costs of maintenance, operation, MOT!

    I also think that the Mistrals would be useful to us, at least for the same "Syrian Express". And in the Far East all neighbors already have their own DVDs. In terms of costs, the fleet is generally expensive.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • sergmorjk
    sergmorjk 27 February 2016 15: 36
    0
    I remember in Secular times at the Yantar plant were built BDK type Ivan Rogov and where did they go?
    According to the stories, these tankers took on board up to a hundred tanks where did it all go?
    1. lelikas
      lelikas 27 February 2016 16: 08
      +4
      Quote: sergmorjk
      I remember in Secular times at the Yantar plant were built BDK type Ivan Rogov and where did they go?
      According to the stories, these tankers took on board up to a hundred tanks where did it all go?

      - "They killed Petrukha, Abdullah stabbed ...". Fuck them, ... and they didn't take a hundred tanks, but about 50 PT-76s could have no problem.
    2. Avantageur
      Avantageur 27 February 2016 16: 09
      +1
      Quote: sergmorjk
      I remember in Secular times at the Yantar plant were built BDK type Ivan Rogov and where did they go?
      According to the stories, these tankers took on board up to a hundred tanks where did it all go?

      According to a representative of the defense industry complex (at the time of the purchase of the Mistrals), the refusal to restore was adopted due to the fact that the ships of the project 1174 "Rhino" (Ivan Rogov class - according to NATO codification) need to be redesigned for modern equipment and weapons, which is inappropriate in cost savings ...


      1. Paranoid50
        Paranoid50 27 February 2016 16: 39
        +3
        So, it seems, they again brought up the topic of "Rhinos", just after the rollback of "Mistrals". EMNIP, now two 1174 are in reserve. And saving money ... So the "mistral" money and put on "Rhinos". Or not?
        1. Avantageur
          Avantageur 27 February 2016 17: 20
          +1
          Quote: Paranoid50
          So, it seems, they again brought up the topic of "Rhinos", just after the rollback of "Mistrals". EMNIP, now two 1174 are in reserve. And saving money ... So the "mistral" money and put on "Rhinos". Or not?

          Yes, they raised such a topic in AiF. Here is an expert comment ...

          BDK "Mitrofanenko" will not be able to replace "Mistral". The fact is that this ship was withdrawn from the fleet in 2006, after which it was sent for scrap twice and put up for sale: in 2008 and 2014. Before that, all armaments and equipment were removed from the BDK, there was only one box left, which was probably rotten. Plus, you need to understand that the ships of Project 1174 "Rhinoceros" * have a completely different purpose than the "Mistral". These helicopter carriers are needed for work in the far sea zone, and our current area of ​​interest is, on the contrary, the neighboring sea territories - the Kuril Islands, Sakhalin, the Baltic islands. Therefore, now, due to the lack of need, in principle, we do not have ships that would solve the same problems as the Mistral. However, even if such a need arises in the future, it would be more profitable for Russia not to purchase ready-made ships, but to buy, say, a technological project and build it ourselves. And of course, not in France, there is a more successful project, for example, in South Korea. - Military expert, chief editor of the magazine "Arsenal of the Fatherland" Viktor Murakhovsky

          In short, it’s easier to build new ones.
    3. gispanec
      gispanec 27 February 2016 20: 07
      -1
      Quote: sergmorjk
      According to the stories, these tankers took on board up to a hundred tanks where did it all go?

      fool and 200 more planes negative you at least kill 100 tanks by their weight and think .... repeat
      1. Shark Lover
        Shark Lover 28 February 2016 13: 08
        +1
        Read the tactics of the Marine Corps, at least on the resources. 100 tanks !!!!!! How long will this "cow" stand on the sand and unload? Next, in the mid-90s, our probable enemy was the Americans. In the Far East, the 3rd Marine Division, stationed in Okinawa. Studying their capabilities for landing troops in the bays of the Primorsky Territory there has always been a controversy, which is better, vessels with a battalion on board and a "division" of tanks, or with a half company, a company. You can sweep everything off the coast, before the landing begins, but there is all sorts of shnyaga in the depths, so if this shnyaga falls into a pair, three landing vehicles, with a battalion, or it just flushes off a wave, there is no regiment. Or a cloud of small funds. We are talking about right now. first wave. I will not give a link, maybe they write where, I studied them directly on the basis of official duties.
  • Spartanez300
    Spartanez300 27 February 2016 16: 29
    -2
    Restore the second eagle and everything will be okay, the main thing is that it is faster. Then our "friends" will clamp their eggs, I ask for my French.
  • surok12
    surok12 27 February 2016 17: 05
    0
    The news is good because The order of production of VT products is replete with very different pitfalls. I would like to believe that in solving this problem all technical (primarily) and all organizational, as well as bureaucratic problems were resolved (for those who have doubts, open the relevant GOSTs, if you can).
  • dchegrinec
    dchegrinec 27 February 2016 17: 17
    -1
    The question is open: why create a problem for yourself, and then bravely overcome it? Was there any rush to acquire ships abroad? It is only in NATO that they are afraid of everything and urgently defend themselves.
  • Obstacle
    Obstacle 27 February 2016 17: 38
    +1
    One can dream and wonder forever, but specialists work, the amount of work done is great, well done. (IMHO)
  • avg-mgn
    avg-mgn 27 February 2016 17: 59
    +2

    Quote: Baikonur
    Quote: gispanec
    But there is a sense вam explain?
    Not to me, but to everyone! By the way, you didn’t explain, you wise guy!
    .вyou don’t understand anything in VFM!!
    I am from Baikonur! And there is no Navy, not that VFM!
    ... there are reasons (believe - probably the word was missed) that in any military field you are the same noob ... you ни to count, не to share can notиthose... all вyour horizons outlined by the conscription service
    I am a major videoconferencer!
    , otherwise you would not skid in all topics on VO ... to sozhеlaziness without due respect,

    Where, interestingly, I skidded ?!
    And here you are - really
    outlined by the conscription service
    clearly visible! Especially for insults to strangers to you!
    PS:
    AT ALL without respect !!! stop

    I don’t think there’s a place for debate. Dear, please, without "And I am VKS", And I am the Navy. "During my years of service, on" I ....., followed the army response - "Head from the Bolt". Please honor the traditions of the SA, remain OFFICERS.
    1. gispanec
      gispanec 27 February 2016 21: 10
      -5
      Quote: avg-mgn
      Stay OFFICERS.

      Baikonur is not an officer !! .. this topic is closed ....
      1. Shark Lover
        Shark Lover 28 February 2016 13: 12
        0
        Toughly you))))) I think he just wore stars, judging by the position. Theoretically, an officer. What do you mean by an officer, I understand.
  • avg-mgn
    avg-mgn 27 February 2016 18: 14
    -3
    gispanec
    I am from Baikonur! And there is no Navy, not that the Navy!
    I thought the same way until in a Ural city in 87-89 a year I accidentally met with a drop at the restaurant table (in his words - the son of deputy KChF), and so, he served in Baikonur. The Lisitsins (emphasis on Y) didn’t fly here in Vietnam either, and Castro is not Fidel, but simply Fedor ...
  • hobot
    hobot 27 February 2016 19: 16
    +2
    Everyone perfectly understands what a deep conservation of technology is. So what happened here is called intentional destruction to the root. And now we need not to look for the extreme ones, but to restore the country's defenses, which is actively and done to the best of our abilities and capabilities.
    Break through.
  • kmv.km
    kmv.km 27 February 2016 22: 37
    0
    Maybe soon "IVAN GREEN" will become part of the "express"?
    A rhetorical question ...
    ANSWER: It is high time ...
  • Leprekon
    Leprekon 27 February 2016 22: 42
    0
    Well done! But other questions also arise. For example, why is it that all and sundry are "planing" our AK without a license (even in the USA they began to produce), and "we" are often told that "we" cannot without the knowledge of former developers and manufacturers (applies to both the post-Soviet and countries CMEA) to start production or service on its own?
  • Nicola Bari
    Nicola Bari 28 February 2016 12: 29
    0
    What a great news. Moreover, the point is not so much in the documentation itself, but in the fact that they were able to solve such a difficult task - that means there are those who can solve it - this is really great.
  • apostoll
    apostoll 28 February 2016 12: 52
    +1
    Quote: tornada61
    Floating workshop OF SHETSENA BEEN SOMYE KAMFORTNYE CABIN trimmed plastic and wood Cond 18 50 OUTSIDE IN shkonka with shutters and lamps, and in BPKashkah stall AT LEAST 20 shkonka PERSON IN 3 LAYER AND VENTILATION slop In TROPICS as cockroaches NOCHIVAT creeps on the upper deck

    And the most interesting thing is that these boxes, of Polish construction, were tried to be written off first of all ... especially during the times of Ivanovo and Serdyukovism. Gnobili and launched the BDKashki on the most do not indulge ... if they went where, then only for crabs or to the parade ...
    1. feropont
      feropont 28 February 2016 15: 25
      +2
      What do you have against comrade Ivanov?
  • 72jora72
    72jora72 1 March 2016 09: 54
    0
    Russian defense industry has restored the documentation necessary for the repair of ships of the Navy, built abroad
    And it pleases!!
  • Gomel
    Gomel 1 March 2016 10: 47
    0
    But I didn’t understand. Polish shipyards then, according to their projects, did the ships do anything?
    Shouldn't all the materials in the Soviet design bureaus stay?