Military Review

Azerbaijan protested over military loan to Armenia from Russia

194
Azerbaijani Foreign Ministry sent Russia a note of protest in connection with the entry into force of the agreement on the provision by Moscow of a loan to Yerevan for $ 200 million for the purchase of Russian weapons, the resource reports Minval.az with reference to the representative office Hikmet Hajiyev.




“Transfer to Armenia weapons and offensive military equipment does not contribute to the settlement of the (Armenian-Azerbaijani) conflict, ”Hajiyev said.

According to him, “Azerbaijan has repeatedly brought to the attention of the international community the irrefutable facts that the weapons and military equipment acquired by Armenia are deployed in the territory of Azerbaijan’s occupied Nagorny Karabakh region”.

“By placing these weapons in the occupied territories without the consent of the exporting country, Armenia thus thus grossly violates its international legal obligations, as well as the regime and transparency of arms control. Thus, Armenia strengthens its military presence in the occupied Azerbaijani territories, ”the diplomat said.

"Azerbaijan demands from the exporting country, that is, from Russia, to obtain guarantees for non-use of sold weapons and military equipment in the Azerbaijani territories occupied by Armenia, as well as along the Azerbaijani-Armenian border,"
added on.
Photos used:
http://minval.az/
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  1. Finches
    Finches 25 February 2016 13: 43
    26
    Join the CSTO and give you a loan! laughing
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 25 February 2016 13: 47
      +6
      Quote: Finches
      give you a loan!

      Azerbaijan seems to be pulling without a loan. yes
      1. iConst
        iConst 25 February 2016 13: 54
        41
        Quote: Vladimirets
        Azerbaijan seems to be pulling without a loan.

        “But that is not the point.”

        Azerbaijan is whispering with the Turks, now with gas across Europe, rushing to the peak of Russia, and just a little nagging.
        There is a limit to any cunning. And this must be indicated. The Americans have set the tone: here sanctions, and here we are cooperating, here we are holding back, but here it is profitable for us. The motto of the gangsters Cosa Nostra is nothing personal, just business.

        But this is beneficial as long as your trump cards and marked cards are yours.
        1. cniza
          cniza 25 February 2016 14: 28
          +8
          Ignore their note, we are interested in the border with Turkey.
          1. Aleksander
            Aleksander 25 February 2016 14: 50
            15
            Quote: cniza
            Ignore their note, we are interested in the border with Turkey.

            That's it! And Armenia is the only uncompromising ally of Russia in that region in the event of a conflict with Turkey (understandably, with its goals). And precisely for this they give her credit, IMHO.
            1. Seal
              Seal 25 February 2016 15: 07
              +3
              That's it! And Armenia is the only uncompromising ally of Russia

              Are there any examples of this?
              Can this
              http://rosgeroika.ru/geroi-nashego-vremeni/2013/july/lejtenant-shapovalov-oruzhi
              ya-ne-predal
              ally deed?
              Or this one?
              http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:e1joysx9NB8J:www.fsb.ru/fsb
              /history/author/single.htm!id%253D10317984%40fsbPublication.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=
              clnk

              What is the second most influential lobby in the United States after Israel? Armenian !! A rare, even rarest Armenian family, regardless of where it lives, in Armenia or in Russia, has no relatives in the United States. Nevertheless, many believe that Armenia is our "ally" and not an ally and assistant of the United States.
              How did the Armenian delegation to PACE vote when about a year ago we were deprived of the right to speak there?
              The entire Armenian delegation (all 6 of its members) - abstained.
              And how did the Azerbaijani delegation vote? And Azerbaijan gave 6 votes against depriving Russia of the right to vote in PACE.
              And Serbia gave 6 votes against depriving Russia of the right to vote in PACE.
              Yes, even Turkey gave 4 votes "against" depriving Russia of the right to vote in PACE. Two members of the Turkish delegation abstained.

              And further. When the crime is committed, the investigators first find out what? They find out who benefited the most from this crime.
              As a rule, the one who received the greatest benefit is the criminal (customer) of the crime.
              The fact that our SU-24 was shot down is a crime.
              But who benefited from this crime?
              We, Russia? No, we did not receive anything, only additional problems. Which we decide.
              Turkey I doubt it. Yes, and at Erdogan for the first time after it became known that our SU-24 was shot down by the Turks, it was both funny and pathetic to watch. He did not have a single homework. Neither his alibi (if he had refused), nor why he had done it (if he had immediately admitted that he was on his orders). Erdogan only mumbled and bleated.
              Will we search further?
              1. Vladimirets
                Vladimirets 25 February 2016 15: 18
                +1
                Quote: Seal
                Will we search further?

                And well done, it is logical, who will argue reasonably? good
              2. genisis
                genisis 25 February 2016 15: 27
                +6
                Of course we will look further.

                Write directly who won the most from the fact that the Turks shot down the Russian SU-24.

                Wangyu - "Armenians"))))

                Kanesh, Russians urge terrorists, Kurds bite off Western Armenia from the Turks to create Kurdistan - and the Armenians won
                1. Vladimirets
                  Vladimirets 25 February 2016 15: 36
                  -1
                  Quote: genisis
                  Of course we will look further.

                  Write directly who won the most from the fact that the Turks shot down the Russian SU-24.

                  Wangyu - "Armenians"))))

                  Kanesh, Russians urge terrorists, Kurds bite off Western Armenia from the Turks to create Kurdistan - and the Armenians won

                  Without slogans can you?
              3. Foxmara
                Foxmara 25 February 2016 17: 35
                +1
                Think correctly. It seems to me that Azerbaijan is simply obliged to make a statement here so as not to lose face within the country. Nothing further will follow.
                1. marna
                  marna 25 February 2016 20: 03
                  0
                  Quote: Foxmara
                  It seems to me that Azerbaijan is simply obliged to make a statement here

                  That's it, a statement or concernas they say in diplomatic language. And the note of protest is addressed to Armenia, if it really violates its obligations. And then again everything is felled in the Russian Federation.
              4. garnik64
                garnik64 25 February 2016 23: 37
                +1
                Eureka! This is beneficial to Armenia! I read your thought? And I think (our su-24 brought down) is sobering. I can’t stop repeating that there is nothing good in the rapprochement between Turkey and Russia. This is a historical enemy, it was and remains so. And I'm sorry without reference , the former Prime Minister of Serbia, said that along with Russia, the countries: Greece, Belarus and Armenia are natural allies with the same friends and enemies. I am all convinced that you are hired. .I'm sorry if this is so. You have links in reserve. But you don’t see anything good.
                1. Seal
                  Seal 15 September 2019 17: 09
                  0
                  Well, how do you feel about your enthusiasm after three years?
                  Since then, a coup d'etat has taken place in Armenia, your former first, second, third and so on persons are being judged or are going to be judged.
                  In friendly Turkey our S-400s have already been deployed. At the aerospace show MAKS-2019, where Erdogan was an honored guest, our President made an offer to the Turkish President to purchase the Su-57.
                  Well, and who on February 25, 2016 did not actually see anything at point blank range? hi
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 25 February 2016 15: 25
            +8
            “The transfer of offensive weapons and military equipment to Armenia does not contribute to the settlement of the (Armenian-Azerbaijani) conflict,” Hajiyev said.
            The purchase of offensive weapons by Azerbaijan contributes to the settlement of the conflict, which is probably the opinion of Hajiyev.
            1. Bakht
              Bakht 25 February 2016 15: 54
              0
              The point is not what and who buys. And where he places it. What Azerbaijan buys (for cash) is located on Azerbaijani territory. What Armenia buys (on credit) is located in the OCCUPIED territories. Do you catch the difference?
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Zoldat_A
          Zoldat_A 25 February 2016 14: 33
          13
          Quote: iConst
          Azerbaijan is whispering with the Turks, now with gas across Europe, rushing to the peak of Russia, and just a little nagging.
          There is a limit to any cunning. And this must be indicated.

          Oh, why, why, and the Mamedi always knew how to cunning .... Ask any Soviet ensign - who is the best captor? Mamed! Because he’ll take off his last pants from the one who asks, and he won’t get snow from him in winter, he will save his goodness better than a chain dog, and most importantly, he’ll break into a cake before the boss, just to please the authorities ..... Therefore, such capers were always stolen for two - yourself and your boss ...
          1. Vinchi
            Vinchi 25 February 2016 22: 19
            +2
            And who is the best bread maker?
            1. Zoldat_A
              Zoldat_A 26 February 2016 02: 31
              +2
              Quote: Vinchi
              And who is the best bread maker?

              When I served urgent - we had a Volgograd of my call. At school - aunts are freelancers. In the officers' canteen, too.
        4. gergi
          gergi 25 February 2016 19: 17
          +2
          Azerbones are the same Turks, one people, one nature. Not friends to us, that's for sure. While Aliyev has not yet merged in ecstasy with Erdogashenka, but this is quite possible. Amid hatred towards the Armenians, they don’t feel love for Russia either.
      2. Vend
        Vend 25 February 2016 13: 55
        +7
        Quote: Vladimirets
        Quote: Finches
        give you a loan!

        Azerbaijan seems to be pulling without a loan. yes

        But it’s enviable to see
        1. Pravdarm
          Pravdarm 25 February 2016 14: 01
          11
          This is called - "morning began on the collective farm"! quite expected sunrise! Quite expected "smells"!
          Azerbaijan, as today's teenage youth says, wants to be "in trend"! (only I don't know where to put the accent!)
          1. Temples
            Temples 25 February 2016 14: 06
            0
            But it’s enviable to see

            Not enviable.
            Karabakh is a splinter in relations between Armenians and Azeris.
            1. kapitan92
              kapitan92 25 February 2016 14: 13
              17
              Quote: Temples
              Karabakh is a splinter in relations between Armenians and Azeris.

              Not a splinter, but KOL was driven in the spring of 1988 in Sumgait, when the brave Azerbaijanis slaughtered the Armenian population.
              1. Bakht
                Bakht 25 February 2016 15: 56
                -1
                Kol scored to Sumgait. In Kafan. But it has been discussed a hundred times. Armenians will never admit that the Karabakh conflict was launched by Armenia. At the Theater Square in Yerevan with the filing of the American and French diaspora. Long before Sumgait.
                1. genisis
                  genisis 25 February 2016 20: 37
                  0
                  The Karabakh conflict was laid down by the decision of the Caucasian Bureau on the inclusion of Karabakh in Azerbaijan. A little earlier, the Azerbaijan SSR was given to Nakhchivan. By 1989, there were no Armenians in Nakhichevan. Heydar Aliyev wanted to do the same in NKAO. The Armenians raised this issue several times at the level of the leadership of the USSR, they were always sent to the south.
                  So it spilled over.
                  1. Bakht
                    Bakht 25 February 2016 21: 23
                    0
                    Incorrect knowledge of the material.

                    Borders in the region were drawn on the basis of political considerations. There were three waves of deportation from Armenia. One immediately after the war, the second in the 50s. And the third is already in our memory. As a result, by the beginning of 1988, not a single Azerbaijani was left in Armenia. So, Azerbaijanis were expelled from their native lands purposefully during all 70 years of Soviet power. And Armenia is now the most mono-ethnic country in the world. Just don’t tell me that the Azerbaijanis themselves left their native places en masse.

                    To raise the issue, the Armenians raised the issue, but they were absolutely correctly sent where necessary. According to rumors, Comrade Stalin said to Comrade Mikoyan, "They gave you from Van to Sevan. So calm down." The issue of Karabakh and Nakhichevan was solved according to other templates.

                    For example, there was such a drug commander. Stalin, who is Dzhugashvili, who is Koba. For some reason, being an Ossetian, he cut South Ossetia to Georgia. And Nagorno-Karabakh left as part of Azerbaijan. By the way, on the recommendation of Ordzhonikidze. Azerbaijanis there did not smell. For very simple and understandable reasons. But this is not for average minds. It is much easier to use the press myths.

                    Your thoughts: Aliev wanted to do
                    Real facts: Armenia has become mono-ethnic.

                    Conclusion: if the facts do not fit into your hypothesis, the worse the facts.
                    1. genisis
                      genisis 25 February 2016 22: 27
                      0
                      Deportation of whom and where?
                      Armenians did not want to give Karabakh and did not give.
                      Or I missed something.
                      You know, it may seem strange to you, but the only way for Azerbaijan is to join the Russian Federation
                      Note, wherever the Türks took on the role of progressors, everywhere they, unlike the Russians, couldn’t culturally include the peoples in their composition. Be it the Ottoman Empire, present-day Turkey, Azerbaijan. Note that with all the enormous economic superiority since the launch of the Millennium project, Azerbaijan has not achieved significant military superiority over the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic, supported by the Republic of Armenia. Confirmation of this is the already fairly protracted waiting for an order to #Karabakhbizemdir
                      In general, I sometimes think with a smile that the Republic of Armenia is very lucky that there are no Armenians in the leadership of Azerbaijan. Winning would be much more difficult. Tell me, please, is the current head of the General Staff of the Ministry of Defense of Azerbaijan not the same person who developed the most disastrous winter offensive operation in Azerbaijan for the Karvachar mountains in December 93 - February 94?
                      1. Bakht
                        Bakht 25 February 2016 23: 11
                        0
                        I would not answer. But ... You've piled this up here .... I will not chew, because there is an inaccuracy in each of your words.

                        I can talk about myself. I do not consider myself a Turk. I am Azerbaijani. If you do not see the difference between a Turk and an Azerbaijani, then I am not to blame. But I understand perfectly why YOU say so. For some reason, Azerbaijanis from Iran are quite happy with you. And you do not consider them Turks. Is it strange?
                        And all sorts of Vakhabzadeh, for me is not an authority. I had the "good fortune" to listen sometimes. So do not equate Turks and Azerbaijanis. Yes, we are close and Turkey is our ally. But we do not always support her policy.

                        As for the Armenians in the leadership of Azerbaijan. I don’t see what exactly Armenians are better than Azerbaijanis. And why is Azerbaijan so lucky. By the way, your thesis is also quite controversial. This is especially true of the beginning of the conflict.

                        Lingering expectation quite possibly has completely different reasons. I don’t see why the order should be right now or when you want. Only today at the front there were 116 fire contacts. And every day the bill goes to hundreds. It can hardly be called a truce.
                      2. genisis
                        genisis 25 February 2016 23: 50
                        0
                        The Turks of Iran live under the influence of Persian progression, not Turkic. Not everything went smoothly with the Persians among the Armenians, but the Turks were completely different. Among the Turks of Azerbaijan, for example, Ibad Huseynov was a hero for a long time, photographed with a severed human head, and claiming that he killed it and Monte Melkonyan was the head in confirmation. This is when Monte died from a shot from a BMP-2 gun, and a simple 19 year old guy shot. But they didn’t even remember him, and Ibad was heroic. The Turks of Turkey also considered him a hero, but in the environment in which the Turks of Iran live, such an act, like many other places, is considered a shameful lie, exaggerated heroism and certainly can not serve as an example for education.
                        You did not answer me about Sadikhov.
                        And his role in the death of the brigade in winter at the Omar Pass.
                        Is he GS now?
                        116 shootings
                        Azerbaijan constantly keeps snipers on the line
                        Mortars every other day
                        Azerbaijanis even fired from a tank
                        Helicopter shot down
                        Shell directly the Republic of Armenia, not NKR
                        Today, only the NKR Defense Army and the army of the Republic of Armenia are the only and sufficient factors that stop the issuance of an order. For Azerbaijan, this is an all-in, if you will, the rate, after which you can’t recover after losing. Therefore, Azerbaijan is trying to achieve guaranteed superiority, but it cannot. And will not reach. Time is running. And in the first war, not everyone was eager to fight, but now ...
                      3. Bakht
                        Bakht 26 February 2016 10: 34
                        +1
                        Look for the names of the command staff of the Armed Forces of Azerbaijan yourself. Here I am not your assistant.

                        When there is an ethnic war, the heroes are the strangest. The same as in Armenia. The same Melkonyan is a terrorist. And not from Armenia. What was the mercenary doing in Karabakh? Few photos and posts on the Internet about the "heroism" of the Armenian warriors?

                        The reason that the war did not start is not the army of Armenia. I will say more - the presence of the Armenian army in the territory of Azerbaijan will sooner or later lead to war. So your army is a destabilizing factor. By the way, by helicopter. What did the military of Armenia do in Karabakh? After all, it was not the citizens of Nagorno-Karabakh that died, namely Armenia. They were called up in Armenia.

                        War is such a thing - no one knows the result. Who will win or lose is unknown. But given the increased capabilities of the armed forces of both sides, the losses will be among the civilian population.

                        You do not understand one simple thing. You can agree on one condition. The territory of Azerbaijan (I repeat once again for inattentive we are not talking about Nagorno-Karabakh) should be cleared. After that, negotiations are possible. There is a compromise if only Armenia clearly states its goals. The problem is that she cannot do this because of the loss of image in the eyes of the UN. Its goals are in complete contradiction with the fundamental principles of the UN.
                      4. genisis
                        genisis 26 February 2016 11: 10
                        +1
                        You still don’t want to answer me simply and honestly: "Yes, Najmeddin Sadikhov, who developed the most disastrous company for Azerbaijan, is currently the head of the General Staff of the Azerbaijani Defense Ministry."

                        Strange heroes)))))

                        Anything can be expected from the authorities of Azerbaijan forming a false parliament, and not just propaganda of the false heroism of Ibad Huseynov, who allegedly “eliminated” Monte Melkonyan during the Karabakh war. This was reported by the Azerbaijani site "Minval.az", referring to the record of the famous Azerbaijani lawyer Aslan Ismayilov on the social network Facebook.

                        According to the lawyer, he learned about this back in 2011, when the commander of the 708th brigade battalion, Colonel Khatai Bakhyshov, came to him and spoke about the circumstances of Monte’s death and that Ibad Huseynov didn’t even know about this event.

                        Recall that back in 2012, a group of Azerbaijani Karabakh war veterans issued a statement in line with the official version that the cause of Monte’s death was an accidental fragment from a BMP shot during a battle in the village of Marzilu, as evidenced by the commander of a separate reconnaissance company Tofig Jafarov and Deputy Commander of the 708th Brigade Umidvar Mirzoev. Moreover, one of the BMP crew members who fired at Melkonyan’s car, Azaddin Musaev continues to serve in the Armed Forces of Azerbaijan. After a scandalous exposure of the Azerbaijani veterans and their families, supporters of the promotion of the myth of Ibad Huseynov began to threaten.

                        The reason that the war does not start you did not name. What, besides the strength of the NKR Defense Army and the army, does the Republic of Armenia stop Azerbaijan?

                        You do not understand one simple thing. Any negotiations are possible only after the establishment of a solid peace and ceasefire on the borders of the NKR. Only then can the dialogue begin. And in this dialogue already discuss the next steps to the example.

                        The leadership of Azerbaijan, by escalating tensions on the border with the NKR, by shelling the territory of the Republic of Armenia directly, clearly demonstrates that it is still confident that it will impose its point of view by force. A previous attempt led to a significant reduction in the territory of the Republic of Azerbaijan. What the next adventure will lead to - no one knows. The possibilities of fire destruction have increased - there will be much more victims, as you rightly noted.

                        The winner can talk about the liberation of any territories. Is Azerbaijan such a party? No! Therefore, the only thing that will bring Azerbaijan closer to progress in relations with the NKR is the unconditional and demonstrated desire for peace, the withdrawal of snipers, and the cessation of sabotage. Until that time, the Armenian population of Nagorno-Karabakh (the wording used in all UN resolutions) perceives people in military uniforms of Azerbaijan, who kill both soldiers of the NKR Defense Army and attacking civilians and the NKR and the Republic of Armenia as enemies and defend themselves from them arms in hand.
                        And while Azerbaijan will attack, the Armenian population of Nagorno-Karabakh will defend itself.
                    2. Bakht
                      Bakht 26 February 2016 10: 46
                      +1
                      No need to say smart words here - progression. And what kind of progression do Armenians live under? You will say that they themselves are progressors. So your remark is already offensive to the whole nation. You calmly accept Azerbaijanis from Iran, because you have no territorial claims against Iran. Not yet. And you have territorial claims against Azerbaijan, and therefore you yourself have made us enemies. Demonizing the enemy is the first principle of propaganda.

                      Given that the Azerbaijanis are in no way involved in your troubles. It was the Armenians who staged the massacre in Baku in March 1918. And when the Turkish troops entered Baku they received a response. It was the Armenians who massacred Azerbaijani villages in Shemakha and Guba in 1918. Look at the first basic documents of Dashnaktsutyun. "The lands of Armenia should be cleared of the Turks and there should be no fear of blood." Verbatim quotes can be found on the Internet. So you will never be white and fluffy.
                    3. genisis
                      genisis 26 February 2016 11: 34
                      0
                      Despite the fact that Azerbaijanis are in no way involved in your troubles.


                      I'm already sick of your lies and hypocrisy.
                      To honor you - the poor, the poor lived for themselves - and then the evil hai came and took everything away.
                      You only Stepanakert more than 100 days from the BM-21 shot. The first in the world from Grad worked on residential high-rise buildings. Ayaz Mutalibov daily demanded to report to him how many percent of Stepanakert was destroyed. You gave the order to bomb Gandzasar. You heroize people chopping off heads to other people: Huseynov, Safarov, Tagiev.

                      Which Turkic progressors are pure Horde, barbarians.

                      What can you say about Akram Aylisli's novel Stone Dreams? Have you read it already?
                      Why are the Turks of Azerbaijan all the time, as one - the descendants of Maryg Muzafar?
                      Aylisli writes with horror in his memoirs how the Azerbaijanis surrounding him in the village of Agulis, in which he grew up, burn a cat alive. Uzeyir Hajibeyov also writes about this - http://uzeyir.musigi-dunya.az/az/publicism_70.html

                    4. Bakht
                      Bakht 26 February 2016 12: 00
                      +1
                      You see what you want to see. I wrote somewhere that "poor and orphan"? Find my words like this or confess your lie. I can repeat literally that I wrote "ethnic wars create strange heroes." There are similar heroes in Armenia. The terrorist who committed the act of terrorism in Paris is met in Yerevan as a hero.

                      About Ailisli - it's all nonsense and the private opinion of one person. I read his opus and found nothing literary there. Do you like him? Well, I can't tell you what a dirty language this "writer" has.

                      Are you nauseated by my "lies and hypocrisy"? So tell me honestly, why did YOU expel thousands of Azerbaijanis BEFORE Sumgait BEGIN? Why did these refugees end up in Sumgait?

                      About progression. Again your lie? I / what wrote that the Türks are progressors? You ascribe to me your words, and then you feel sick. From your own words. I have never said or written this. I wrote that the word progressor itself is offensive.

                      All your opuses and references to some memoirs do not make any sense to me. I don’t believe journalists by definition. If only because he knew first-hand what was going on there. From the first day of the conflict. I have been to both Lachin and Kelbajar. There has been no war yet. And who started and how the tales developed for me do not need to be told. The conflict began on the Theater Square of Yerevan in the summer of 1987 with the slogans "miatsum". The first refugees appeared in Baku in November-December 1987. Sumgait was already in February 1988.

                      Are these your words?
                      Any negotiations are possible only after the establishment of a solid peace and ceasefire. at the borders of the NKR.

                      And what am I talking about in the morning with blisters on my fingers. Do you agree to return to the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh under a ceasefire guarantee? So do not be hypocritical. A month ago, I wrote here on this site, return to the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh, release 6 OCCUPIED areas and we can talk about the deployment of peacekeepers. For example, from Kazakhstan. Do you agree with this offer?

                      A note about the winners. Armenia did not win the war. Today, Armenia is the loser. Like Azerbaijan. This happens. These are the basics of geopolitics.
                    5. genisis
                      genisis 26 February 2016 12: 23
                      0
                      Progression is a term coined by the Strugatsky brothers.

                      Do you agree to return to the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh under a ceasefire guarantee? So do not be hypocritical. A month ago, I wrote here on this site, return to the borders of Nagorno-Karabakh, release 6 OCCUPIED areas and we can talk about the deployment of peacekeepers. For example, from Kazakhstan. Do you agree with this offer?


                      Excuse me, Heydar Aliyev gave guarantees to the Armenians in May 94 to ceasefire. As Azerbaijan holds its guarantees, Armenia can already see the 22nd year.

                      The borders of NKAR and NKR are completely different things. Currently, Azerbaijan is constantly attacking the NKR Armed Forces and Armenia. So what's the point of retreating from previously occupied positions? To make it easier for you to attack the NKR?
                      If Azerbaijan really wanted peace, and not take a break to build up strength and this time certainly beat the Armenians, then it would not set any conditions, namely, that it would start steps demonstrating its desire for peace. And now, what is Azerbaijan demonstrating?
                    6. Bakht
                      Bakht 26 February 2016 12: 37
                      +1
                      In addition to the Strugatsky, the term progression was also used by Lukyanenko. He also added the term regressor. I do not ask who coined the word. Do you agree to be taught? Is this not offensive?

                      On the front line, who shoots the first and who does not prove the second. No one can prove it. Both Armenians and Azerbaijanis are shooting.

                      What sense do you put into the sentence "The borders of NKAO and NKR are absolutely different things". Does this mean that the borders of the NKR will include the regions of Azerbaijan? The UN and the Council of Europe have a very definite meaning. The borders of the NKR are limited by the administrative borders of the NKAO as of 1988.

                      "What is the point of retreating from positions taken earlier?" How do you want to achieve peace? From a position of strength? Then admit the occupation of Azerbaijani lands and there will be a war. The point is to get peace. But Armenia and you personally do not need peace. Armenia demonstrates an aggressive policy, which was the main goal of the conflict from the first day. Accession of the occupied lands.

                      Thank God we have come to a consensus. Armenia captured 6 regions of Azerbaijan taking advantage of the country's temporary weakness. Learn the story. One of the reasons for the First World War was the annexation of Alsace and Lorraine. Now the war is insecure with your position. Azerbaijan has nothing to do with it. The invader is guilty of the outbreak of war. That is Armenia.

                      Good luck on the front I do not wish.
                    7. genisis
                      genisis 26 February 2016 12: 51
                      0
                      Do you agree to be taught or not, but will be taught. The only question is who the teachers are.

                      You read my point absolutely right. The borders of NKAO 1988 and NKR 2016 are completely different things. By the way, what is your point of view on the part of the Mardakert and Shaumyan districts of the NKAR remaining under Azerbaijan - release them to the borders of the NKAR in 1988?

                      See what is the difference between the Armenian and Azerbaijani positions.

                      Armenians say - let's establish and firmly consolidate the world!
                      This is the first, most important, initial condition of negotiations.
                      All other questions are possible for discussion, but only after the deaths at the border cease.

                      Azerbaijan says - free what you have won from us.
                      Then give us Karabakh, on the basis of the fact that we promise you the widest autonomy, and then, perhaps, our president will cease to say in his public speeches that the Republic of Armenia itself is the ancient lands of Azerbaijan.

                      Armenians offer peace without conditions and further negotiations, Azerbaijan offers - bow your head, level your military victories - forgive me, but for what ??? So that the Azerbaijani Armed Forces stop attacking the Army of Defense and the Armed Forces of Armenia?
                    8. Bakht
                      Bakht 26 February 2016 13: 10
                      0
                      That is the difference. You offer surrender. And Azerbaijan offers a peaceful solution.

                      The borders of the NKR and the borders of the NKAR must be identical. By UN and OSCE resolutions. All areas must be coordinated and troops withdrawn to the borders of the region.

                      By autonomy. What demand do the Armenians of Karabakh put forward? Not the Armenians of Armenia and the Diaspora, but the Armenians of Karabakh. Self determination. This is the official position of Yerevan and Stepanakert. Well, get self-determination. Even higher than before. The status is not a region but the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic. With its own language, the Supreme Council, police prosecutors, their courts and other attributes. With its capital, Stepanakert and the right to veto laws relating to the autonomous Republic. According to the tracing paper of Nakhichevan. After all, Azerbaijan is de facto the Federation. We have two parliaments, two power structures. There will be three and the status and the Armenian language as a regional language will be enshrined in the Consitution. Donbass wants about the same.

                      And then peace will reign. But the first and unconditional demand is the restoration of the administrative boundaries of future autonomy. And you will be self-determination and peace in the region. In the meantime, I see annexation.

                      It would be nice if Russian users read this polemic, and not just you and me. From the very first posts I wrote that OCCUPATION is happening. And they did not believe me. Under the occupation, no negotiations are possible. This must be clearly understood. And the shelling will continue. Who is the first and who is the tenth nobody will prove it. And without a word you can chat anything. Recognize the fact of occupation of the regions of Azerbaijan and we will find a common language. And everything else is hypocrisy and a lie. That is what you unfoundedly accuse me of.
                    9. genisis
                      genisis 26 February 2016 13: 32
                      0
                      Let’s understand, however, how the Armenian population of Nagorno-Karabakh occupied those areas that were not originally included in the 1988 NKAO borders.
                      You claim that the Armenians of Nagorno-Karabakh occupied some part of Azerbaijan.
                      As I see it:
                      1) The Azerbaijan SSR attacked the Armenian population of the NKAR with the aim of forcing them to abandon the demands for secession from the Azerbaijan SSR.
                      2) As a result of hostilities, the Armenians liberated most of the NKAR.
                      3) An armistice agreement was concluded.
                      4) Azerbaijan launched an attack in order to defeat the Armenians again.
                      5) Attention. Very important! The Armenians restrained the onslaught, counterattacked, drove the Azerbaijanis forward tens of kilometers.
                      6) Each attack of Azerbaijan after the armistice led to even greater loss of territory from Azerbaijan.

                      Well, where is the occupation here ???
                      Who attacked Azerbaijan?
                      Who wanted to occupy him?
                      And today you demand that the Armenians give you what you lost due to your own self-confidence.
                      In honor of what?
                      Once again I explain to you, before starting to discuss the fate of certain territories, it is necessary for the warring parties to stop killing each other. First of all, it is necessary to establish peace. Only after the cessation of deaths on the borders and the firm consolidation of this position, we can proceed to further issues.

                      Azerbaijan, committing sabotage, sniper attacks, attacking the peaceful villages of Armenia and NKR, does not in any way move the Armenian population of Nagorno-Karabakh to peace. On the contrary, warns, we will attack as soon as we can.
                      You write - NKR offers surrender. What does it mean?
                      Is the demand for peace an offer of surrender?
                      Then what should the NKR offer Azerbaijan?
                      And who needs your broad autonomy?
                      After all, Azerbaijan is de facto the Federation

                      You tell the Talysh that radio in their own language can only be launched outside of Azerbaijan. Tell the Lezgins about autonomy, to the Tat-Parsians. They still believe.
                    10. Bakht
                      Bakht 26 February 2016 13: 48
                      +1
                      As i see the situation

                      Armenians demanded secession from Azerbaijan. And it was inspired from Yerevan. And they began to expel the Azerbaijani population of Karabakh. And bring weapons to Karabakh. I saw it myself. As a result, war became inevitable. Moreover, the demand for withdrawal was declared illegal by the Supreme Soviet of the USSR in Moscow. But do not care about such trifles. The referendum was not held either.

                      Azerbaijan was completely unprepared for such a development of events, plus a squabble for power and the ambiguous position of the Popular Front. As a result, areas were lost. There was no cease-fire before Aliyev came to power. All these are fabrications.

                      So what do we have. You do not want and are not going to return the areas. Demand surrender from Azerbaijan. While there will be occupation, people will kill each other g = each other. You do not see the occupation? Well read the UN resolutions. Everything is clearly said there. In the first paragraph:
                      1. Demands the immediate cessation of all hostilities and hostile acts in order to establish a lasting ceasefire, and immediate withdrawal of all occupying forces from the Kelbajar region and other recently occupied regions of Azerbaijan;
                      If you can’t read, then explain on the fingers. This is the FIRST point to solve the problem. Not the second and not the tenth. The first. But the second point is negotiation. Exactly the opposite of what you offer.

                      Talysh leader warmed up in Yerevan. Let him sit there. We do not need him. Talysh themselves do not need. Yes, and Sadval has not many supporters.

                      All. I spent so much time on this discussion.

                      There is only one conclusion - there is a fact of occupation, the Armenians want to negotiate from a position of strength. Well, so be it. It is all useless. Follow the first paragraph of the UN resolution, then you can talk. And before that, it comes to war and do not be surprised at the number of shellings. I can justifiably say that the shelling is due to the fault of the Armenian side because they want to disrupt any peace negotiations. And no one can prove me the opposite. There are no peacekeepers, no observers, no monitoring either. You can blame each other.
                    11. genisis
                      genisis 26 February 2016 14: 05
                      0
                      How cleverly you read the first paragraph)))))

                      And first, and together:

                      requires the immediate cessation of all hostilities and hostile acts in order to establish a lasting ceasefire


                      This is where the first point begins: the immediate cessation of hostilities and the establishment of a durable ceasefire. If the first part of the first paragraph is not fulfilled, about which we will continue to talk.

                      First you need to stop the killings, establish a ceasefire, without any conditions, and then, having consolidated the ceasefire, start a dialogue.

                      You are not the first Azerbaijani who is "for peace"

                      Only for all of you, the world begins with the fact that the Armenians begin to give you one, another, third, and you, for this, do not kill them.
                      This is a bad offer to share.
                    12. Bakht
                      Bakht 26 February 2016 14: 24
                      +1
                      So let's get together. Was there a ceasefire? It was. Are the districts freed? No. Therefore, the ceasefire and turned into a filkin letter.

                      This has already passed once. The fire was stopped and the areas were not freed. Do you still offer us this game? Well, you can cheat once. But you can't cheat all the time.

                      Bad offer? Nobody killed you until you started to kill and take away. Take a look in the mirror.

                      I do not offer you an exchange. I propose the exact implementation of UN resolutions. You did not complete it. And from here all the problems.

                      In general, we will not agree on anything. For a simple reason. I'm tired of voicing it. The true goal of Armenia is to seize the land. And do not tell me fairy tales that Armenia did not participate in the war. Probably Monte Melkumyan came to Baku, showed his passport at the customs and then went to Karabakh. This terrorist came to Armenia, with his same thugs and was transported to the territory of Nagorno-Karabakh. And those helicopter pilots who recently shot down? They were called up in Armenia and served in Nagorno-Karabakh.

                      The storyteller about the NKR victory, how much can you lie? "I am already sick of your lies and hypocrisy"
                    13. genisis
                      genisis 26 February 2016 14: 34
                      0
                      In general, you are right that Azerbaijan and NKR will never agree.

                      One republic or another will cease to exist.

                      And only by military means will this issue be finally resolved.

                      Well, or with Azerbaijan, some internal transformations will occur that will completely change the position of the Azerbaijani side in the negotiation process.
                    14. Bakht
                      Bakht 26 February 2016 18: 21
                      0
                      "And only by military means this issue will be finally resolved."

  2. genisis
    genisis 26 February 2016 13: 48
    0
    Note.

    Armenia could not win the war between Azerbaijan and the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic, because it itself did not participate in the war, but only supported the Armenian population of Nagorno-Karabakh in its desire to defend itself from the attacking neighbor - Azerbaijan.

    NKR won in this war.

    Or is this also not so? )))
  3. Yeraz
    Yeraz 26 February 2016 01: 20
    0
    Quote: Bakht
    I do not consider myself a Turk. I am azerbaijanian

    Well, you can consider yourself at least a Martian, but this does not change the fact that We are Turks. The difference is only in the geography and specifics of residence. They are Turkish Turks, we are Azerbaijani Turks, well, if of course you are not Lezghins or Talysh, then yes you are just an Azerbaijani.
  4. Bakht
    Bakht 26 February 2016 10: 38
    +1
    You know, I worked for many years in Turkmenistan and Kazakhstan. Not a single Kazakh or Turkmen will call himself a Turk. But what about our Patriarch?

    "Men hemise fexr etmisen, bu gunde fexr ediremki men Azerbaycanliyam"

    Is he Lezgin or Talysh?
  5. Yeraz
    Yeraz 26 February 2016 19: 08
    0
    Quote: Bakht
    Not a single Kazakh or Turkmen will call himself a Turk

    Well, this does not change the fact. Chechens and Russians can sincerely consider themselves RUSSIANS, but this does not change the fact that 1 of them is Russian by blood and the other is Chechen.
    Quote: Bakht
    Is he Lezgin or Talysh?

    An Azerbaijani is an affiliation to the land, not blood and a nation. When we called ourselves Turks Turks called themselves Ottomans, but this does not mean that there was a nation of Ottomans with the Ottoman language. There was no Turk I am Turkic.

    And until the 34th year, until Stalin tied everyone to land identification, we called ourselves Turks and are them.

    I am an Azerbaijanian by state, I am Turk, there are Talysh Azerbaijanis, Lezghins and others, and this is our common country. Just the dominant, the platform of this country that unites everyone is its Türkic element.
  6. genisis
    genisis 26 February 2016 12: 03
    0
    Here is the clearest example of Turkic progression

    Quote: Yeraz
    Quote: Bakht
    I do not consider myself a Turk. I am azerbaijanian

    Well, you can consider yourself at least a Martian, but this does not change the fact that We are Turks. The difference is only in the geography and specifics of residence. They are Turkish Turks, we are Azerbaijani Turks, well, if of course you are not Lezghins or Talysh, then yes you are just an Azerbaijani.


    Do you see who ruled in Azerbaijan? Who benefits from the existence of "Azerbaijanis" in general? Simply, if you are a Turk, then you are a Turk (Transcaucasian or Anatolian), and if you are a Talysh, Lezgin, Avar, Tsukhur, Rutulets, Tat or Udin, then you are the most "Azeri".
    This is a description of the system in which the Turks first usurped power, and, secondly, clearly indicate what fate awaits all non-Turkic peoples. As a maximum - the highest happiness - to call yourself an Azerbaijanian!
  7. Bakht
    Bakht 26 February 2016 12: 15
    0
    I remind you once again that the term progression was introduced here by you. I regard this term as offensive, because it subordinates other nations. I just asked you who were the Armenian progressors? You will immediately perceive this as an insult. So do not use terms that you do not understand.

    Your whole post is completely slurred. You again attributed some actions of another nation and you began to feel sick. Choose the words, be careful and the nausea will pass.
  8. genisis
    genisis 26 February 2016 12: 30
    0
    Let me remind you once again that the term "progressorship" was introduced by the Strugatsky brothers.

    My whole post is based on the words of your fellow tribesman, a Qajar Turk with the nickname Yeraz, clearly demonstrating that in Azerbaijan only Turks are Turks, and all the rest, the true indigenous, are Lezgins, Avars, Tsukhurs, Rutuls, Armenians, Udins, Tats, Talysh are simply ephemeral "Azerbaijanis"
  9. Bakht
    Bakht 26 February 2016 13: 20
    +1
    Leave your anthropological fabrications to specialists. Who are Azerbaijanis, we will figure it out ourselves. And leave your speculations drawn from the Armenian propaganda too in Yerevan.

    We are discussing how to achieve peace. And not mutual reproaches and do not measure pipisky who is better and who is worse.

    I have already written a hundred times. And I can repeat it. Modern sociology considers nations since the birth of capitalism. That is, from the middle of the 19th century. And what amateurs write to me on the drum here. Why should I believe someone on the site and not believe serious research by specialists? The Azerbaijani people formed in the 14-15 centuries. Ad. Ours is not prehistoric. And the Azerbaijani nation began to form towards the end of the 19th and the beginning of the 20th centuries. Like the Armenian way.

    If you are warmed by the soul of 4 or 5 thousand years of history, then bask. I do not care. If you read at least a few words in that language - tell me. In the meantime, translate the word Matenadaran from ancient Armenian to modern Armenian. And a bunch of Armenian surnames with Turkic roots. All of these Demirchans and Shakhnazaryans probably have ancient Armenian roots? Or is it Turkic? We lived here for thousands of years. And of course everyone was mixed up.

    I have always been ridiculous, and lately I am pretty tired of the attempts of "pseudo-historians" on such sites. Write a normal scientific work, pass the approbation at the Academy of Sciences in Moscow and hold the flag. In the meantime, this is all propaganda.
  10. genisis
    genisis 26 February 2016 13: 42
    0
    Who are Azerbaijanis, we will figure it out ourselves


    Please be kind, do mercy))))))

    True, if you still have not decided on so many decades, what will change now?

    Will Talysh cease to call their capital Lankon, instead of Lankaran?
    Türks will stop stealing the ancient Talysh stone sculptures of bulls and transport them to Nakhichevan?
    Will Hazi Aslanov immediately cease being an "Azerbaijani" and become a Talysh?
    Lezgi mosque immediately return its name back?
  11. Bakht
    Bakht 26 February 2016 14: 27
    +1
    What is your concern to your unloved neighbors. I will tell you the reality. The Republic of Armenia arose at the beginning of the 20th century. The Republic of Azerbaijan arose at that time. YOU are persistently trying to prove to me that I do not exist. You have a very productive position. Do you know why this legend is so popular in Armenia? Yes, because if there are no Azerbaijanis and no Azerbaijan, then you can seize the land further. Up to Absheron.

    How tired I am of these Armenian propagandists without a grain of reason in my head. As the policy of aggression and fascism was in Armenia, you have remained that way.

    Everything is clear to me. And for the hundredth time it’s impossible to chew everything.
  12. genisis
    genisis 26 February 2016 14: 45
    0
    YOU are trying hard to prove to me that I do not exist


    Azerbaijan Republic - is.

    There are no Azerbaijanis as a nation.

    You too are.

    Logically, you are anyone, but not an Azerbaijani.

    Everything is simple here.

    There is Russia, there are Russians - but this is not a nation, these are all citizens living in the Russian Federation.

    There is Dagestan, but there is no nationality of Dagestanis.

    There is Azerbaijan, but there is no nationality of Azerbaijanis.

    There is the Nagorno-Karabakh Republic, but no Nagorno-Karabakh.
  13. genisis
    genisis 27 February 2016 13: 47
    -1
    Armenians do not need land until Absheron.
    The Armenians, like the Azerbaijanis, need the skirmishes to stop. Borders need to be open.
    But in the current situation - the most acceptable option is the border along the Kura riverbed. What will happen on the Azerbaijani coast?
    Ideally, the subject of the Russian Federation.
  14. Yeraz
    Yeraz 26 February 2016 19: 15
    0
    Quote: genisis
    Will Hazi Aslanov immediately cease being an "Azerbaijani" and become a Talysh?

    Azi Aslanov is not a Talysh, do not compose fairy tales.
  15. genisis
    genisis 27 February 2016 00: 10
    0
    http://www.talish.info/news/azi_aslanov_general_shimon_general_vpered/2010-02-24
    -979 qualifying.

    And Nizami Ganjavi, who has never written a single line in his life in Turkic, only in Farsi - is he also an "Azerbaijani"?
  16. genisis
    genisis 22 March 2016 16: 14
    0
    By the way, Gilal Mammadov was released.
    If you need to know something about Asi Aslanov, it is best to ask him.
  17. Yeraz
    Yeraz 26 February 2016 19: 13
    0
    Quote: genisis
    This is a description of the system in which the Turks first usurped power, and, secondly, clearly indicate what fate awaits all non-Turkic peoples. As a maximum - the highest happiness - to call yourself an Azerbaijanian!

    Wait. It is the other way round that hurts the Türks. Since the Türks are considered first and foremost Azerbaijani, and Lezgins or Talysh call themselves Lezgins and Talysh. And as a result of this policy, all Türks would turn into Azerbaijanis, and Talysh and Lezgins would remain Talysh and Lezghins.
    But several points prevented this.
    1. The collapse of the USSR and the result Azerbaijan was able to break into the Turkic world.
    2. Centralization of everything in Baku, when before this monolithic regions, everyone had arrived in Baku and total assimilation began, if earlier Talysh was only on Talysh, Lezghins only on Lezghinka and even Turks were married to people from their region, then in Baku it’s a complete mixture .
    3.And the Armenians themselves, to whom I am very grateful, who are the only ones in the region and in the world who do not separate the Turks of Anatolia and the Turks of Azerbaijan and call all Turkes. This is also the moment of feeling like Turks.
  • Vinchi
    Vinchi 25 February 2016 22: 27
    +1
    You still say that during the Soviet era in Kirovobad, Armenians and Azerbaijanis lived in perfect harmony ...
    1. Bakht
      Bakht 25 February 2016 23: 13
      +2
      My roots are from Kirovabad. But I lived in Baku. Yes, they lived very well. And together. Not all of course. Maybe you're out of luck. But I had many friends from Armenians. And the neighbors. And I do not consider them enemies. By the way, not one of them went to Armenia. No one. Normal educated people.
    2. Bakht
      Bakht 26 February 2016 18: 25
      +1
      This video will be understood only by Baku People.

    3. Bakht
      Bakht 26 February 2016 18: 53
      +1
      I'm also gray-haired. But this city was just as sung.

  • garnik64
    garnik64 25 February 2016 23: 55
    +1
    About who started, this is a big question. But, for some reason, the troops entered Baku.
    1. Bakht
      Bakht 26 February 2016 10: 40
      +1
      Do you think that troops have been introduced to protect the Armenians? No need to be so naive. By the time the troops were brought in, the pogroms had already stopped. They were two days old and they were stopped by the Azerbaijanis themselves. Let's just say - Baku Azerbaijanis. And the Armenian Azerbaijanis smashed. That is, refugees from Armenia. These are your shots, not ours. You educated and embittered them like that.
      1. Yeraz
        Yeraz 26 February 2016 19: 20
        0
        Quote: Bakht
        That is, refugees from Armenia. These are your shots, not ours. You educated and embittered them like that.

        Nobody brought us up there, and just the Armenians showed their true face, although my region was mono-ethnic, where there were only Azerbaijani villages and Malokans, but everyone lived peacefully with the Armenians. And what do you want us to do when we lost our land and at home, in Baku, we see Armenians who shout and live in much greater comfortable conditions, since most Azerbaijanis in Armenia were rural residents and did not even have the slightest access to power there. And in Azerbaijan, they are deputies, leaders, hoyaevs and shikes.
        Our Bakuis are also disliked for the reason that they did not allow the massacre to be carried out, since all these Armenians went to Karabakh to fight against Azerbaijan and even now they provide huge support in the occupation and anti-propaganda against Azerbaijan.
        1. Bakht
          Bakht 26 February 2016 19: 43
          0
          I'm tired of arguing with a stubborn Armenian. But you correctly noted that the Bakuans (mostly Azerbaijanis) did not allow the massacre in Baku. But few people know this.

          And the Armenians call us Turks for a simple reason. We must make enemies of us. So they mixed us with the Turks. Although they do not consider Iranian Azerbaijanis to be Turks. Shah Ismail Khatai is closer to me than Sultan Selim.

          This is not a question of ethnography, but of politics. In general, this is all nonsense. In sociology, there is the concept of two generations. 40-50 years old and a new nation with its own mentality is ready. For example, Nazi Germany and Germany in the 80s. And now Merkel of the same Germans about whom they wrote "Teutonic rage" made impotent. And then and now they are Germans. But can they be compared? ... Although even now in Germany there are people with "Teutonic rage" in their souls. I saw and communicated.

          And the Baku Armenians left not for Karabakh, but for Russia or America. I saw it off myself and I know for sure. None of my acquaintances are in Armenia. Especially in Karabakh. They didn't need him. From the word "absolutely". Probably all the same I was lucky in my life with friends.
        2. Yeraz
          Yeraz 26 February 2016 20: 06
          0
          Quote: Bakht
          And the Armenians call us Turks for a simple reason. We must make enemies of us. So they mixed us with the Turks

          No, they just came into contact with us more than anyone else, even in Turkey, the lands that they consider to be theirs live a lot of ours and they don’t see the difference.
          Quote: Bakht
          Shah Ismail Khatai is closer to me than Sultan Selim.

          So he is closer to me, because he is the ruler of the Azerbaijan Turks and the east of Turkey, where the Shiites were Turks, also gravitated towards him more.
          Quote: Bakht
          ... And now Merkel made impotent from the same Germans about whom they wrote "Teutonic rage"

          But by blood both those and present Germans.
          Quote: Bakht
          But the Baku Armenians did not leave for Karabakh, but for Russia or America. I myself accompanied and I know for sure. Of my acquaintances, not a single one is in Armenia.

          Exactly, you didn’t fail every Armenian. Right now I communicate with the Baku Armenians, the amazing influence of Turkism in them. They have a darkness of Turkic words that Armenians of Armenia do not have.
          But they are all Armenians, and they will be. And yes, they did not go to Karabakh to live, some went to fight there, and another who lives outside of Armenia provides financial and other support and this is a fact. And for me, an Armenian sitting behind a burg has financial and other leverage more dangerous than an Armenian with a gun in Karabakh.
  • Vend
    Vend 25 February 2016 14: 43
    0
    Quote: Temples
    But it’s enviable to see

    Not enviable.
    Karabakh is a splinter in relations between Armenians and Azeris.

    So I say enviously. Who is stopping them from buying weapons in Russia? Not enough, you can loan.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • PHANTOM-AS
    PHANTOM-AS 25 February 2016 13: 56
    +3
    Quote: Vladimirets
    Azerbaijan seems to be pulling without a loan.

    Vladimir Vladimirovich also helps them;
    1. cap
      cap 25 February 2016 15: 54
      0
      Quote: PHANTOM-AS
      Quote: Vladimirets
      Azerbaijan seems to be pulling without a loan.

      Vladimir Vladimirovich also helps them;


      Specify. hi According to my information, it was signed by DAM, when he was the Commander-in-Chief.
    2. garnik64
      garnik64 26 February 2016 00: 03
      0
      This is a time bomb. Lezginsky lands.
  • quote
    quote 25 February 2016 14: 04
    +6
    There is a feeling in the air, Turkey is moving towards "kirdyk". Yes, no, a question. But Azerbaijan’s "whining" strengthens the understanding that, oh, how not everything is in order with the Turks. Without the support of the Turks, you don’t kick a lot. A? Azerbaijan?
    We don’t want to live peacefully ourselves, and disturb others! (My opinion)!
    1. Seal
      Seal 15 September 2019 17: 13
      0
      There is a feeling in the air, Turkey is moving towards "kirdyk"

      Well, how do you like this statement today?
  • Mahmut
    Mahmut 25 February 2016 13: 55
    11
    That is, Azerbaijan openly and officially recognized its intention to forcefully resolve the territorial dispute with Armenia.

    Armenia thus grossly violates its international legal obligations

    That is, Armenia assumed international obligations to cede Nagorno-Karabakh to Azerbaijan and not strengthen the defense capabilities of its army. And why didn’t I know about this?
    1. Bakht
      Bakht 25 February 2016 15: 59
      0
      You did not know this, because you are not aware of the situation.

      International legal relations imply the borders of states. And not their occupation. Think about it at your leisure
  • Tusv
    Tusv 25 February 2016 13: 58
    0
    Quote: Finches
    Join the CSTO and give you a loan

    There were already. Yes, come out. Not to give a loan, Stepanakert to borrow, and as old Shakespeare used to say: "A plague on your both houses." Really. these are fighting for nothing, and our air defense in 88 did not receive c300.
    1. Michael67
      Michael67 25 February 2016 14: 00
      +7
      Let them give assurances that the weapons will not go to Karabakh so that they can calm down. Armenians must be armed. They will tear the Turks to shreds, if that. Not one of us to fight for all.
      1. cap
        cap 25 February 2016 16: 06
        0
        Quote: Michael67
        Let them give assurances that the weapons will not go to Karabakh so that they can calm down. Armenians must be armed. They will tear the Turks to shreds, if that. Not one of us to fight for all.


        Looking at the map of Great Armenia, they need more weapons. Kurds with autonomy will wait, and Turks will generally have to be written off as a nation.
        mapmap
        1. Seal
          Seal 25 February 2016 16: 40
          -4
          Is that a historical map? Why is it in a modern projection of coordinates?

          This Atlas is considered the most ancient of those that have survived to this day.

          http://dimma43.narod.ru/photoalbum109.html

          All the rest, which claim to be more ancient, have not reached our days. Find Armenia on it. Good luck searching. hi
          1. garnik64
            garnik64 26 February 2016 00: 22
            +2
            Map of Pomponia. Once again, review your link. Other maps are not readable. And find your Azerbaijan with the capital Irevan. As the president of Azerbaijan insists.
  • Giant thought
    Giant thought 25 February 2016 13: 59
    +8
    What do they care about whom and on what conditions do we sell weapons when they were sold to them, they did not express any displeasure, so now let them be silent in a rag.
  • zloybond
    zloybond 25 February 2016 15: 37
    -2
    Azerbaijan just pays. but all sorts of Armenia, Bangladesh ...... first we give loans ... intermediaries who get these loans from grandmas get sawed, but manufacturers wait for the promised three years, and then we write off these debts ..... moreover .... all sorts of Bangladesh there, Armenia and others then require different preferences .....
    In general, the mediator wins, the state scammed by Rosoboronexport workers ..... and that’s all .... guys in chocolate .....
    But all sorts of ala-patriots who are not aware of cuts are sitting and trolling on patriotic sites, our ALL .....
    1. zloybond
      zloybond 25 February 2016 19: 45
      -1
      judging by the minuses that have appeared, the gentlemen of Rosoboronexport are preparing diapers or ala-patriots, not knowing the subject, trying to puff against the wind))) ???? Guys, I know an object from the inside, there’s no need to tell tales)))) ... there are figures and facts))) learn the mat part, and then vote)))
  • Vinchi
    Vinchi 25 February 2016 22: 15
    +2
    ..and don’t flirt with the Ottomans ..
  • Oleg Lavrov
    Oleg Lavrov 26 February 2016 15: 23
    +1
    They cried, they are afraid that the Armenians will fuck them in Karabakh !! There is nothing to weave bast shoes with Turakans !! So get it !!
  • Mama_Cholli
    Mama_Cholli 25 February 2016 13: 44
    +8
    Or maybe the Armenians need it (equipment) in another place?
    Mount Ararat is still in Turkish territory.
    1. iConst
      iConst 25 February 2016 13: 58
      +5
      Quote: Mama_Cholli
      Or maybe the Armenians need it (equipment) in another place?
      Mount Ararat is still in Turkish territory.

      “Well then, in line with the Kurds.” laughing
  • Lanista
    Lanista 25 February 2016 13: 44
    +3
    I immediately remembered the joke about the exam at MGIMO and the submarine.
  • kursk87
    kursk87 25 February 2016 13: 45
    11
    Russia should act only in its own interests, to ensure its own security and economic development
    1. kepmor
      kepmor 25 February 2016 14: 30
      +6
      It would be nice if our authorities, in response, also "expressed a protest" in the form of expelling their second-hand dealers from vegetable bases and markets in Mother Russia! That was a worthy response to the yelping from Baku!
  • Yak28
    Yak28 25 February 2016 13: 46
    23
    Azerbaijan lives due to the fact that the Russian leadership allows their citizens to engage in speculation and crime in Russia, sending large amounts of money to Azerbaijan. At least, it is not far-sighted to express any protests towards Russia
    1. kapitan92
      kapitan92 25 February 2016 13: 54
      17
      Quote: Yak28
      Azerbaijan lives due to the fact that the Russian leadership allows their citizens to engage in speculation and crime in Russia, sending large amounts of money to Azerbaijan

      This "shop" should have been closed for a long time!
      He worked with construction teams from Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Armenia. Azerbaijanis can do nothing except "buy-sell". Russia has enough of its own traders!
      1. Zoldat_A
        Zoldat_A 25 February 2016 14: 43
        +8
        Quote: kapitan92
        He worked with construction teams from Uzbekistan, Tajikistan, Armenia. Azerbaijanis can do nothing except "buy-sell". Russia has enough of its own traders!

        A joke of 15 years ago was told by a Dagestan.

        At the World Cup, the first place was taken by an unknown, the debutant of the championship, the team of Transcaucasia.

        Team coaches are asked - how so? For the first time in the championship - and a victory. Maybe there is a secret?
        - There is no secret. It’s just that we put the Georgians in the attack — until they succeed, they won’t lag behind. In defense of the Azerbaijanis. Until you pay them, you won’t get through. And at the gate - an Armenian. If you forget him, you won’t prove it ...
        How many told - Georgians, and Armenians, and Azerbaijanis laughed. Surprisingly, the joke conveys the stereotypes of mentality ... laughing
      2. miru mir
        miru mir 25 February 2016 15: 30
        -2
        Why are you insulting a whole nation? I have friends, hardworking Azerbaijanis.
    2. Bakht
      Bakht 25 February 2016 16: 01
      +1
      Did you drink a lot? Or do you have any other information besides bazaars and markets?
      1. Yak28
        Yak28 25 February 2016 17: 20
        +4
        Unfortunately, I don’t drink, but with regard to other information, I can say that in Moscow, 90% of Azerbaijanis, Georgians, Armenians speculate (trade) in vegetable bases, markets, shopping centers, it’s good to demolish the kiosks. They also engage in illegal private by smuggling, drug trafficking and other crime, look at any criminal news. And Uzbeks, Tajiks are basically janitors who clean srach for Azerbaijanis, Georgians, Armenians. Maybe they are all scientists, doctors, mechanics, electricians, engineers at home, but how they come to Moscow like a demon dwells in them laughing laughing laughing
        1. Bakht
          Bakht 25 February 2016 17: 46
          -1
          You wrote that Azerbaijan lives due to the fact that Russia allows them to work in the markets and send money to their homeland. If you don’t drink, then you’re talking complete nonsense. When I assumed that you had a drink, I just wanted to think well of you.

          Do you need doctors in Moscow? I can throw you a couple of addresses. You need an engineer - the same thing. Yes, they are in the markets. But to say that Azerbaijan lives by transferring money is something. Do you know the budget of Azerbaijan? And the amount of transfers? The numbers vary. Let's say about 1 billion evergreens a year. Despite the fact that Azerbaijan transferred several billion to Russia over the past few years for arms purchases. And by the month of June will be conducting Formula 1. In my opinion, a completely unnecessary waste of money. But it will cost 250 lemons.

          So how does Azerbaijan live?
          1. kapitan92
            kapitan92 25 February 2016 20: 54
            +6
            Quote: Bakht
            Do you know the budget of Azerbaijan? And the amount of transfers?

            “According to a number of expert estimates, since the beginning of the 1990s, from 1,5 to 2,5 million Azerbaijanis have entered Russia. They transfer up to $ 3 billion home annually. In these billions, of course, only transfers made officially through authorized structures of banks are taken into account. And how much money is sent simply through friends, by courier, or taken out in their pockets? For 20 years of independence, the total amount of all foreign investments in the Azerbaijani economy is about 50 billion US dollars. Now make a simple math calculation 20 * 3 = 60 billion dollars. Oil painting! This figure does not include those exported in "pockets".
            Revenues of the state budget of Azerbaijan for 2015 are projected in the amount of 19,438 billion manat, expenses - 21,1 billion manat. This is stated in the law "On the state budget for 2015", which was approved on the eve of the President of Azerbaijan Ilham Aliyev. In terms of cross rate, the budget in 2015 amounted to 12,5 billion dollars. As a result, according to the most conservative estimates, 25-30% of Azerbaijan’s budget is exported from Russia !!!!!

            Details: http://regnum.ru/news/economy/1879804.html
            Quote: Bakht
            Do you need doctors in Moscow? I can throw you a couple of addresses.

            No thanks. Do not bother. His thieves homegrown healers enough.
            Quote: Bakht
            You need an engineer - the same thing.

            And the same to you!
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. Yeraz
                Yeraz 26 February 2016 01: 25
                -3
                Quote: Bakht
                Your calculations will not even leave dust.

                Yes, you prove it. More than once they proved it.
                Georgia lived off the sale of wine and water to Russia, it was blocked, but the Georgians lived on.
                Turkey was considered to live at the expense of tourists and fruits too, they blocked it and they did not die too, they continue to live.
                Ukrainians about 2 years ago had to freeze and die of hunger, and now the shaitan also continue to live.
                And Azerbaijan lives off the sale of fruits and migrant transfers, 9 out of 10 Russians think so. And do not prove the opposite with any numbers.
          2. Vinchi
            Vinchi 25 February 2016 22: 38
            +4
            Mainly due to the resale of Turkish citrus fruits and vegetables - go to the market and any trader will tell you about this ... or maybe there are some great designers and scientists in Azerbaijan?
            1. Bakht
              Bakht 25 February 2016 23: 20
              0
              Do not understand. The greatness of scientists, what is relevant to this issue?

              In general, this thesis is actually false, like everyone else. On fingers. Those people who work in Russia (Azerbaijanis, Turkmens, Tajiks, Armenians) do they work or steal? If they steal their place in prison. And if they work, then they get paid. White, gray, black - it doesn’t matter. They create surplus value and part of this surplus value goes to them in the form of wages. They spend it in the same Russia and some are sent to their homeland (and Azerbaijan, Armenia or Tajikistan). They did not steal this money and Russia did not give them this money. They earned them and even created some profit for Russia.

              So there is still a very big question - who gives whom the opportunity to earn. If you don't like it, go to the counter and trade. Or is someone not letting you in? This whole thesis that migrant workers take out money turns out to be a big lie. Guest workers create added value and send some of the money home. Another thing is that the salary should be white. But these are the problems not of those who have come in large numbers, but of your native Russian entrepreneurs. All questions to them.
        2. Seal
          Seal 25 February 2016 23: 50
          +1
          Georgian brigades come to Moscow to purse and purse in window leaves. More breakers near currency exchange points.
          Azerbaijanis are often implicated in drug trafficking.
          The Armenians - those armed raids on banks, gas stations, well, even in the garages of alcohol and tea make the best cognac in the world.
          Rape is common to all three.
          Despite the fact that there, in their Transcaucasus (and on the Internet), they are at war with each other, in Moscow they are friends and cooperate.
          A criminal case under the article "armed robbery" has been opened against 27-year-old native of the Republic of Azerbaijan Imanov and 30-year-old native of the Republic of Armenia Petrosyan. They were "hot on the trail" detained by police officers on Wednesday at about 18 pm in Moscow on Pererva Street.

          Well, also from the headlines
          A 25-year-old native of Armenia, suspected of a series of rapes and robberies, was detained in Moscow. The man committed crimes in the territory of Veshnyaki.

          In Moscow, on suspicion of the murder of three girls, a 42-year-old native of Georgia, Georgy Martirosyan, who calls himself a hereditary magician and healer, was detained.

          Murad Hovakanyan, a 36-year-old resident of Armenia, led the sale of poison, he had several sellers in his assistants. They sent packages with deadly dietary supplements throughout Russia. Police officers are sure that the seller knew what he was selling.

          Colonel Boris Avanesyan, former head of the 4th department of the operative-search unit of the criminal militia under the criminal investigation department No. 1 of the Gusevsky Department of Internal Affairs, who roofed the local mafia, was found guilty of exceeding his official powers (clause "a" part 3 of article 286 of the Criminal Code of the Russian Federation) and sentenced to 3,5 years probation. This was reported in the press service of the Investigative Committee of the Investigative Committee of the Russian Federation for the Vladimir Region.


          Well, something quite exotic
          "They kept in Moscow .... slaves from Indonesia for their own ... comfort"
          guess three times who?
          http://www.yugopolis.ru/news/incidents/2010/11/10/8608/kriminal-nasilie
  • alex-cn
    alex-cn 25 February 2016 13: 47
    10
    Did the UN impose arms sanctions on Armenia? No. What they want is what they buy.
    1. Seal
      Seal 25 February 2016 14: 54
      -7
      Yes, the fact of the matter is that they do not buy. Would buy - there would be no questions. And so, after all, they get a freebie from us.
  • Primus pilus
    Primus pilus 25 February 2016 13: 50
    +7
    Why is Azerbaijan sure that this weapon is waking up in Karabakh, and not at the Turkish border?
  • genisis
    genisis 25 February 2016 13: 50
    +7
    «Azerbaijan demands from an exporting country, that is, from Russia, obtaining guarantees on the non-use of sold weapons and military equipment in the Azerbaijani territories occupied by Armenia, as well as along the Azerbaijani-Armenian border ”

    Due to the fact that the Republic of Armenia has a fairly long border with Azerbaijan, as well as technical specifications for the firing range, it may turn out that Azerbaijan requires! (I can’t help but smile) from Russia, so that the Armenians promise that they will not use what they have purchased on their territory at all)))))
  • Isk1984
    Isk1984 25 February 2016 13: 53
    13
    Paul Baku sits in Moscow from the markets to the Administration, and we can’t adjust the policy of Azerbaijan ...
    1. Finches
      Finches 25 February 2016 14: 24
      +7
      And the second half is in St. Petersburg! laughing
      1. Vinchi
        Vinchi 25 February 2016 22: 43
        +1
        And the rest (in little things) in Voronezh .. so who lives in Azebraidjan (according to Gorbi) ???
  • black
    black 25 February 2016 13: 54
    +5
    The Shura-Mura of Azerbaijan and Turkey, that is what harms good neighborly relations.
    1. Bakht
      Bakht 25 February 2016 16: 03
      0
      Outdated information.
  • Obama
    Obama 25 February 2016 13: 54
    -5
    Many are driven to Lukashenko, they say, like an ally of Russia, and with parashena they almost gouge with gums, something licks to the West there) and they are the same. we sell weapons to Azerbaijanis and Armenians too) what is the difference?
  • Abbra
    Abbra 25 February 2016 13: 55
    0
    Suddenly I remembered ...
  • V.ic
    V.ic 25 February 2016 13: 56
    +4
    Who is stopping Aliyev’s subjects from purchasing similar equipment from the Russian Federation, is it not Perdyugan?
  • BABA SHURA
    BABA SHURA 25 February 2016 14: 00
    +6
    I can't imagine that Armenia will show any kind of aggression. The same cannot be said about "Turkish chains ...."
    1. Bakht
      Bakht 25 February 2016 16: 05
      -2
      No need to introduce. We need to look at the map. Aggression is already de facto. Lord, how much can one explain to those present that the ARMENIAN OCCUPATION TROOPS ARE IN THE TERRITORY OF AZERBAIJAN. Not in Karabakh, but in Azerbaijan.
      1. Chisayna
        Chisayna 25 February 2016 17: 05
        +2
        If the Armenian Occupation Troops are located on the territory of Azerbaijan, then you need to recall the precepts of Ilyich. Namely: TO LEARN IN MILITARY CASE THIS MODE.
        1. Bakht
          Bakht 25 February 2016 17: 50
          +1
          We are studying. And if they don’t leave, then the war will be in any case. The first step to solving the problem is to clean the territory of Azerbaijan. Anticipating the tantrum on the site, I remind you again. This is not about Nagorno-Karabakh, but about the surrounding 6 regions. Which never entered Nagorno-Karabakh.
          1. garnik64
            garnik64 26 February 2016 00: 55
            0
            These are the words of a rational person, only how to instill your mind in the head of your president.
            1. Bakht
              Bakht 26 February 2016 10: 52
              +2
              I assure you that our president has more intelligence than mine. I am not ashamed of this at all and admit this fact. If only because he sits in the presidential chair and I knock on the keyboard here.

              And you ask why the war does not start? Why is there no order? Yes, because the president of Azerbaijan does not want to start a war. And not because he is afraid of the formidable army of Armenia. Just because he is a smart person.
      2. garnik64
        garnik64 26 February 2016 00: 46
        +1
        This land is called (censorship). In the textbook on Ancient Russia, I read about the description of these places by the chronicler of Prince Igor. About Christians Armenov.
        So the protests are valid, if for the Russians the Armenian name of Nagorno-Karabakh is a taboo.
        1. Seal
          Seal 26 February 2016 21: 08
          0
          I read about the description of these places by the chronicler of Prince Igor

          Oh really ? And who is this "chronicler of Prince Igor" let me ask you? And which of the princes-Igor?
          Oh, this is probably how it was written in your textbook "Chronicler of Prince Igor", and you thought it was the name of the person, right? Chronicler (Surname), Prince (Name), Igor (Patronymic)?
          Oh, how many wonderful discoveries clowning spirit is preparing for us lol
  • iliitchitch
    iliitchitch 25 February 2016 14: 05
    +3
    But let’s imagine for a second what would happen if Azerbaijan directly communicated with Armenia, without Russia. There’s definitely nothing good, don’t go to your grandmother.
    1. Bakht
      Bakht 25 February 2016 17: 51
      -3
      And it just seems to me that direct communication would be more productive. Simple facts. 25 years of indirect communication have yielded nothing. And then crush the water in the mortar?
  • Cucumbers
    Cucumbers 25 February 2016 14: 08
    +9
    Armenia is our loyal ally in Transcaucasia and in conditions of tense relations with Turkey, and Azerbaijan is Turkey’s ally granting a loan when there is a lack of funds in the budget, indicating possible aggression from Azerbaijan. Moreover, Azerbaijan has an advantage in offensive weapons. to balance the situation, so that Azerbaijan would not be tempted to climb into Armenia.
    1. Seal
      Seal 25 February 2016 14: 35
      -4
      Armenia is our faithful ally in Transcaucasia

      Will you please with an example of "loyalty"? No, it is well known that they say that they are our best ally. But what about cases?
      It
      http://rosgeroika.ru/geroi-nashego-vremeni/2013/july/lejtenant-shapovalov-oruzhi
      ya-ne-predal
      ally deed?
      And this one?
      http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:e1joysx9NB8J:www.fsb.ru/fsb
      /history/author/single.htm!id%253D10317984%40fsbPublication.html+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=
      clnk
      1. genisis
        genisis 25 February 2016 14: 57
        +7
        Zatikyan remembered)))))
        He committed a terrorist act. AND?
        What's next?
        Shapovalov group was shot. AND?
        Who carried out the operation "Ring", the capture of the Shahumyan region? Allies of the Armenians?
        And why aren’t you writing here about the features of the withdrawal of 4 and 7 armies from the territory of these republics?
        Maybe it was the Armenians in the 90s that Chechens treated, cherished, cherished on their territory?
        Maybe the Armenians rejoiced when the Turks 24/11/15 shot down the SU-24?
        Maybe it is on the territory of Azerbaijan now a military base near the Russian Federation?
        Maybe the FSB border department is called "Azerbaijan" or "Georgia", and not "Armenia"?
        1. Seal
          Seal 25 February 2016 15: 22
          -2
          He committed a terrorist act. AND?

          And the whole of Armenia who considers him? A scoundrel and a terrorist or:
          a) an innocent martyr and a victim of a bloody KGB;
          b) a hero who fought for the freedom of the Armenian people, but a little in the wrong way.
          c) national hero

          For you personally Zatikyan - who? The terrorist who blew up people in the Moscow metro or who?
          Shapovalov group was shot. AND?
          The group of our paratroopers, led by Lieutenant Shapovalov, you, the Armenians, vilely shot, some of them killed the wounded and none of the Armenians did not bear any responsibility for this. What, really not enough? Father of Lieutenant Shapovalov is still looking for the truth !!

          Everything else is irrelevant. Azerbaijanis do not stuff into our best friends and allies. It is the Armenians who are stuffed. So be so kind as to have the courage to be responsible for your treasonous acts, and not to hide behind the backs of Azerbaijanis, Turks, Chechens, and so on.

          The Greeks, now, now provide rehabilitation assistance (that is, they treat, cherish, cherish) wounded ukrovoyak, including law-abductors, on their territory. For which Tsipras was praised by Parashenko himself.

          http://nv.ua/ukraine/politics/vstrecha-poroshenko-i-tsiprasa-grecheskij-premer-v
          ystupil-za-otmenu-viz-dlja-ukraintsev-uzhe-v-etom-godu-92857.html

          On Friday, January 22, President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko met with Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras during an economic summit in Davos.
          During the conversation, Poroshenko thanked the Greek side for supporting the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Ukraine, and the importance of sanctions to encourage Russia to implement the Minsk agreements was noted. The President thanked Tsipras for providing medical rehabilitation for the Ukrainian military in Greece.
          1. genisis
            genisis 25 February 2016 15: 42
            0
            Zatikyan is a terrorist.

            According to all Armenia, I can’t judge.

            Shapovalov was killed.

            I do not understand how this characterizes Armenia as an ally.
            Well, you know better))

            I just don’t understand one thing, since the Armenians are such lousy allies, why are you messing with them? Well, they would send, at the same time Azerbaijan would be allowed to pick up Karabakh))))
            1. Seal
              Seal 25 February 2016 16: 04
              0
              Zatikyan is a terrorist.

              Thank you for your honesty.
              According to all Armenia, I can’t judge.
              Thanks again for being honest. It’s right that you don’t take it.
              Here is the opinion of the Grigoryants.
              http://grigoryants.ru/sovremennaya-diskussiya/vzryv-v-moskovskom-metro-1977/
              Shapovalov was killed.
              Not just Shapovalov. And his whole group.

              And in the very center of Leninakan, on the central square of the city, where the Russian guys then continued to share bread and the last shirt with the Armenians who suffered from the earthquake, Lieutenant Alexander Shapovalov, sergeants Yevgeny Poddubnyak and Oleg Yudintsev, privates Mikhail Karpov and Nikolai Maslennikov were greeted with heavy fire automatic weapons and grenade launcher. As experts later calculated, there were 216 holes in the car body of Shapovalov. Bullets and fragments literally tore young bodies and pure bold hearts of children.

              Five of our Russian paratroopers were shot. And not one Shapovalov. What, your stock of honesty on Zatikyan is over?
              I do not understand how this characterizes Armenia as an ally.
              Well, you know better))

              Yes, exactly what characterizes.
              The convoy left without a commander and without security was easily disarmed and returned to the headquarters of the Shirak detachment. There are witnesses who show that they heard a short and terrible phrase thrown by Abrahamyan and the answer to the report of one of his subordinates: “Finish!”

              And it is very poorly characterized. As a reliable ally. But as a lying ally, in fact, always protecting only his own interests, he is very well characterized.
              I just don’t understand one thing, since the Armenians are such lousy allies, why are you messing with them? Well, they would send, at the same time Azerbaijan would be allowed to pick up Karabakh
              Similarly, I do not understand. But I hope it’s not yet evening.
      2. garnik64
        garnik64 26 February 2016 01: 29
        +1
        2oo fighters of the Karabakh Armenians participated in the Russian Chechen war. The truth was not long, after several villages taken, in order to avoid an inter-religious war, the Russian command refused help. You will not find a link anywhere, I heard America’s own ears with my own ears. And in the villages of Karamakhi and Chabanmakhi, there were also Karabakhis, which was still under Heydar Aliyev, who protested against the interference of Armenians in foreign affairs. No links. I swear on the future of my people. Almost like in a kindergarten. What can you do.
        1. Seal
          Seal 26 February 2016 21: 13
          0
          And in the villages of Karamakhi and Chabanmakhi, too, there were Karabakhtsi
          And what did they do in these nests of Wahhabism?
  • triglav
    triglav 25 February 2016 14: 12
    +4
    Azerbaijan needs to decide with whom it is. Shuffling will not lead to good. We have two such former republics - Azerbaijan and Belarus.
    1. Bakht
      Bakht 25 February 2016 16: 06
      -1
      Azerbaijan is on the side of Azerbaijan. No shyness was yet to be seen.
      1. V.ic
        V.ic 25 February 2016 19: 24
        +2
        Quote: Bakht
        Azerbaijan is on the side of Azerbaijan. No shyness was yet to be seen.

        The faithful are of course on the side of the faithful, who would doubt that? But about the killing of the downed commander of the Su-24 crew by urban commanders over the Syrian territory, their position should be designated. When MV Frunze brought Ataturk 24 million in tsarist gold ducats, Mustafa Kemal wrote with joy on the rugs of ancient work, but when the successors of his work did not block the Bosphorus and Dardanelles to the Italian and German military courts during the aggression against the USSR, the essence of friendship with the Turks and their followers, who care only about their momentary interests, became clear. Kiss your petty friend "perdugan" in all places permitted by Allah and you will find the landmarks of Azeri-Turkish unity in this voluptuous fusion. The former are always and will remain the former.
        1. Bakht
          Bakht 25 February 2016 19: 48
          +2
          And what should I comment on in this opus? Is Azerbaijan somehow involved in the killing of the Su-24 pilot? Maybe they sent a congratulation to someone? On the contrary, Azerbaijan expressed regret

          Azerbaijan, which has close ties with both countries, regrets and is concerned about this tension, Aliyev said. He pointed out that the Azerbaijani side is ready to make efforts to reduce and eliminate tensions in Turkish-Russian relations.


          Deputy Chief of Staff of the Presidential Administration of Azerbaijan Novruz Mammadov also confirmed that Baku is ready to contribute to reducing tensions. "Turkey is our close ally. Russia is also a close and friendly country for us. Azerbaijan is united by historical ties with both countries. Relations with both states are at the highest level."

          Everything else is on your conscience. Who wrote where and why you probably know well. The very tone of your writings betrays not too cultured person (I put it mildly)
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. Bakht
              Bakht 25 February 2016 23: 22
              0
              Well, yes, I see. Cultural cultures are not for you. Azerbaijan expressed quite normal regret over what happened. And what you wrote is just a distortion of facts or in common parlance a lie. Continue in the same spirit.

              Silent - would seem clever. Alas....
  • Million
    Million 25 February 2016 14: 16
    +4
    Azerbaijanis want to sit on 2 chairs, but no one has succeeded yet. Without Russia, they are nobody
    1. Seal
      Seal 25 February 2016 14: 52
      0
      Well, the Armenians succeed. What is the second most influential lobby in the United States after Israel? Armenian !! A rare, even rarest Armenian family, regardless of where it lives, in Armenia or in Russia, has no relatives in the United States. Nevertheless, many believe that Armenia is our "ally" and not an ally and assistant of the United States.
      How did the Armenian delegation to PACE vote when about a year ago we were deprived of the right to speak there?
      The entire Armenian delegation (all 6 of its members) - abstained.
      And how did the Azerbaijani delegation vote? And Azerbaijan gave 6 votes against depriving Russia of the right to vote in PACE.
      And Serbia gave 6 votes against depriving Russia of the right to vote in PACE.
      Yes, even Turkey gave 4 votes "against" depriving Russia of the right to vote in PACE. Two members of the Turkish delegation abstained.
      1. genisis
        genisis 25 February 2016 15: 11
        +2
        Yes, even Turkey gave 4 votes "against" depriving Russia of the right to vote in PACE. Two members of the Turkish delegation - abstained


        Nothing

        Campaign Turks - our most reliable allies))))

        Sorry, they don’t know)))
        1. Seal
          Seal 25 February 2016 15: 27
          -4
          You are responsible for yourself. You have, whatever the answer, from the series "and the Azerbaijanis and Turks are even worse."
          Yes, let them be at least three times worse - they are not the "best friends and allies."
          Although the real facts say that in fact they often led even better than the Armenians. Once again, they are not our "best friends and allies".
          1. The comment was deleted.
  • Seal
    Seal 25 February 2016 14: 30
    +2
    To play the system of checks and balances, like any other game, a political game, must be profitable.
    So far, there, in the Transcaucasus, the conflict is smoldering, from which we will be supposedly equidistant (but still a little closer to Armenia) Azerbaijan (seeing this and not hoping for our help in returning Karabakh) will inevitably drift towards Georgia, and therefore towards NATO. And thus give the opportunity to Europe and the Ukrainians to build all sorts of intrigues, such as Chinese transit or deliveries of Turkmen gas to Ukraine and further to Europe.
    And the Armenians will constantly untwist us for money, under their high-profile songs that they are our only friend and ally in Transcaucasia.
    What is our national interest here? Constantly losing money directly (gifts from Armenia) and indirectly (the transit that was supposed to go through us goes by us).
    In fact, Russia needs Azerbaijan, not Armenia.
    I show this with a simple example.
    Let's imagine that Georgia has already joined NATO and see what is more dangerous for us:
    a) if Azerbaijan then joins NATO
    b) if Armenia then joins NATO

    If Armenia joins NATO (even if Georgia is already a member of NATO), this will not affect the weather in any way. Well, we’ll just assume that somewhere in the back of Georgia, far from our border, another Georgian region will appear. Well, if Georgia - not NATO, but Armenia - joined NATO - then we can assume that Turkey’s NATO member has another area in the east of the country.

    But if Azerbaijan joins NATO, especially when Georgia is already there, then look at the map. From Iran, we instantly become cut off. Communication is only by sea. And NATO ships will appear on the Caspian Sea. Do we need it?
    It is vitally important for us to urgently change the vector of policy from pro-Armenian to involving Azerbaijan in our orbit. If we tie Azerbaijan to ourselves, we will thereby completely deprive our Central Asian "friends" and Kazakhstan of any illusions that they have the opportunity to pull their pipelines to Europe, bypassing Russia (or Azerbaijan, which is tied to us).
    By tying Azerbaijan to us, we will cut the eggs to Ukraine and Georgia, which have already hopped for rail transit to China past Russia (from the ports of Ukraine, sea ferries carry cars to Batumi, from Batumi by train to Baku, there again by ferry and to Kazakhstan. And from there, the wagons roll on rails to China).
    And if Azerbaijan falls out of this chain, then to hell with it, and not Chinese transit. There is no one to replace Azerbaijan. Armenia has no access to the Caspian Sea.

    And Armenia ... is located in such a way that it is impossible to get into it from Russia by land without the consent of Azerbaijan or Georgia. And by the sea - this is through Iran and there are another thousand miles, and all with mountains, mountains.
    It is beneficial for us that Azerbaijan, with our help or with our connivance, regain Karabakh. Then our Azerbaijan is tight !!
    And only after that, when we will tightly bind Azerbaijan to ourselves, only then will it be possible to gradually feed Armenia with weapons. So that Azerbaijan clearly understands that if it tries even a little bit to loosen the rope that ties it to Russia, then the Armenians may again begin to take Karabakh.

    This is the interest of Russia.
    I understand, this is cynical. But for Russia it is extremely useful. And bloodless.
    1. genisis
      genisis 25 February 2016 15: 05
      +5
      To play the system of checks and balances, like any other game, a political game, must be profitable


      You need to play games with those who want to play them with you)))

      Azerbaijan will never be an ally of the Russian Federation.

      It will be more true when, instead of Azerbaijan, there will be 92 subjects of the Federation, say South Dagestan, which will include the lands of indigenous Lezghins, Avars, Talysh, and will border the Armenian state along the Kura River, as it always has been, before the usurpation of power by the nomadic Turks .

      And today, Azerbaijan and Turkey - the bir millet eki will dominate (one people - two states), as the national pope Heydar said.
      Azerbaijan wants to export 10 billion m3 of gas annually - I don’t think that weighing its position with Russia.

      Azerbaijan both Chechen companies treated militants and provided them with territory for passage from Pankisi to Turkey and back. For example, Paul Khlebnikov took an interview with Khozh Akhmed Nukaev in Baku in the hotel of the same name, where Nukaev was the sovereign owner.

      Most of the terrorists who infiltrated the Russian Federation were in Azerbaijan before the attack.

      Allies)))
    2. scrap123
      scrap123 25 February 2016 15: 31
      +2
      written a lot but stupid from all angles
  • Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 25 February 2016 14: 33
    +4
    Azerbaijan had to be very "sour" because of the drop in oil. Well, just absolutely. Their money was devalued sharply, and there is not enough for "Wishlist". And the Armenians are given. It's a shame, however. laughing
    But seriously, Nagorno-Karabakh is a splinter that simply cannot be pulled out. Until Russia becomes so strong and rich that both will want to go back again.
  • Igor V
    Igor V 25 February 2016 14: 40
    +6
    Armenia "occupied" the territory when there was no trace of Azerbaijan. The Armenians lived in Karabakh and did not think that they were occupying, and when it was necessary, they valiantly defended their mountains and families. So "great" Azerbaijan, created by the USSR, now has to talk about "its" territories.
    1. Bakht
      Bakht 25 February 2016 16: 07
      -3
      Complete nonsense.
      1. Igor V
        Igor V 25 February 2016 18: 30
        +2
        Quote: Bakht
        Complete nonsense.

        You really expand your thought, what is the nonsense? Is there a Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Region in the Azerbaijan SSR in which Armenians lived (and live)? Or in something else? And in what place is the occupation?
        1. Bakht
          Bakht 25 February 2016 19: 17
          0
          You wrote

          Armenia "occupied" the territory when there was no trace of Azerbaijan. The Armenians lived in Karabakh and did not think that they were occupying, and when it was necessary, they valiantly defended their mountains and families. So "great" Azerbaijan, created by the USSR, now has to talk about "its" territories.

          When was not Azerbaijan? Specify dates. Armenia has not been much longer.
          Only Armenians lived in Nagorno-Karabakh? And always? Where does the monument to the 150th anniversary of the resettlement of Armenians in Nagorno-Karabakh come from?
          I always talk about the occupation (without any quotes) of 7 districts NEVER included in the composition of Nagorno-Karabakh.
          Take a look at the map and specify the borders of the occupation. Without any quotes. If it is difficult for you, then I will help.
          Lachynsky district, Kelbajar district, Agdam district, Dzhebrayyl district, Fizuli district, Gubadlynsky district, Zengilansky district. None of these areas has ever been territorially part of the NKAR and the Armenians have not lived there. In Karabakh itself, up to 30% of Azerbaijanis lived, which for some reason you do not consider people.

          So I can only repeat it. You wrote complete nonsense.
          1. Igor V
            Igor V 25 February 2016 20: 29
            +2
            No need to juggle, I did not insult any nationality. The point is that in this place people of different nationalities lived for centuries, but who then occupied? 150 years ago modern Armenia came and occupied? Absurd. The thing is that your politicians could not cope with the situation and brought to war. Yes, I agree that 25 years ago it was difficult to calm hot blood, but after so many years have passed, it was already possible to solve something. And the guy who was born and lived here and suddenly turned out to be an invader is not at all to blame. That's where the nonsense is.
            1. Bakht
              Bakht 25 February 2016 21: 40
              -1
              Do not be nervous and tell me - the areas I have listed relate to Nagorno-Karabakh? A simple question. This is not about Karabakh. I have listed 6 regions of Azerbaijan. Find the Karabakh globe and look at it carefully.

              You wrote that "there was no trace of Azerbaijan." Decipher this phrase of yours. When was he gone? 1988 or 1828? Maybe before Christmas?
      2. Igor V
        Igor V 25 February 2016 18: 30
        0
        Quote: Bakht
        Complete nonsense.

        You really expand your thought, what is the nonsense? Is there a Nagorno-Karabakh Autonomous Region in the Azerbaijan SSR in which Armenians lived (and live)? Or in something else? And in what place is the occupation?
    2. Seal
      Seal 25 February 2016 16: 11
      0
      Then it will be more honest to recall that before the appearance of the Armenian (proto-Armenian) tribes on the Armenian Highlands, the HURRITS already lived this way.
      The descendants of which, in fact, are Kurds. hi
      1. Bakht
        Bakht 25 February 2016 16: 23
        -3
        Well, if you look so far back centuries, then Russia was not there either. And what does it mean? You can go crazy with these pseudo-historians ....
      2. garnik64
        garnik64 26 February 2016 01: 56
        0
        HURRITS - Armenoid people. And the state of Hayas was before the Khurits. Hayas is a country of hai. The name of the Armenians is HAI. And in general, the Armenian chronology is 4508 years old, this is confirmed by Iranian historians, whose people are 200 years older.
        1. Seal
          Seal 26 February 2016 07: 55
          -1
          In general, the Armenian chronology of 4508 years
          Yes, you yourself can write down the chronology at least 4508, at least 14508, at least 145080 - is it that, from this it will become at least one iota more reliable? You don't have a single proof. You are interesting people. You demand proof of history from your neighbors. As for yourself, you think that you have nothing to prove, like everyone already knows about the "antiquity of the Armenians." No, good sir, it won't work. The history of Armenia is no less fantastic than the history of Azerbaijan.
          HURRITS - Armenoid people.
          This is the opinion of only a part of your so-called "propagandists-historians" who write all the dregs in Wikopedias.
          And the state of Hayas was before the Khurits. Hayasa Hai Country

          Oh really ? At least you would sometimes honor your own academic Armenian historians, eh?
          They have a different opinion. Look here:
          http://www.armeniaonline.ru/armenia/history.php
          1)
          The first information about the Armenian Highlands dates back to the 14th century. BC. There existed the Nairi states in the basin of Lake. Van and the state of Hayas and Alzi in the nearby mountains. In the 9th century BC. an alliance was formed with the self-designation of Biainili, or Biainel

          We fix that already in the 14th century BC in the area now called the "Armenian Highland" there were the states of Nairi in the basin of the lake. Van and the states of Hayasa and Alzi in the nearby mountains. Where were the Armenians?
          And the Armenians
          2)
          Around the XNUMXth century BC Indo-European ancestors of modern Armenians, together with their sister Franco-Phrygian tribes, moved from Fraction to Asia Minor and lived here next to the Hittite peoples for about six hundred years. Then they moved east and established themselves in the western and southwestern regions of the Armenian Highlands

          In the 12th century BC, proto-Armenian tribes left Thrace. Then for 600 years they lived somewhere "next to the Hittite peoples." By the way, in fact, to say that "next to the Hittite peoples is to say that" in the village with my grandfather ", since the Hittites themselves were" discovered "only after the opening of the Bogazkoy archive of the Hatti kings in 1906 and decryption in 1915-1916 by the Czech linguist Bedřich the Terrible in Hittite writing One of the greatest Hittite specialists of the XNUMXth century is Oliver Görny.
          And only after 600 years did the Armenians move towards the "Armenian Highlands".
          That is, somewhere in the 6th century BC. And the Hurrians lived there from the 1st century BC. And therefore, they had nothing to do with the Armenians.
          It is believed that having appeared in the Armenian Highlands, the Armenian tribes of the local Hurrians "assimilated". It was not the assimilated Hurrians who disappeared somewhere. Yes, they have not gone anywhere. How they lived - and live. KURDS.
          Self-designation of Armenians, HAI.A

          Since vowels in words, according to the official version of history, began to appear in written sources only a few centuries after the advent of "our era", and before that vowels were not written, we have the right to insert any vowel between the letters X and Y. Alas, but the records or tape recorders of those prehistoric years with records of exactly how this name of three letters was pronounced in ancient times, where the first letter X and the last Y did not survive.
          1. Seal
            Seal 26 February 2016 08: 37
            0
            Amendment. The digit has fallen.
            And only after 600 years did the Armenians move towards the "Armenian Highlands".
            That is, somewhere in the 6th century BC. And the Hurrians lived there with 14 century BC. And therefore, they had nothing to do with the Armenians.
        2. Bakht
          Bakht 26 February 2016 11: 05
          +1
          Are you tired yet? Already tired of talking about ancient Armenian history on Russian TV. Have you seen Prokopenko's sensational show "Military Secret"?



          And why did you underestimate the age of Armenian civilization? According to the National Historical Museum of Armenia, the age is approximately 500 years. He’s just a Pithecanthropus.

          https://historymuseum.am/expositions/?id=1&lang=eng
  • AlexTires
    AlexTires 25 February 2016 14: 44
    +8
    Armenia is an independent state, places its purchases where it considers it necessary. And if Azerbaijan wants peace with it, then let it be reconciled, and not bombard Karabakh.
  • Corvetkapitan
    Corvetkapitan 25 February 2016 14: 56
    +6
    Something the Azerbaijani government did not protest when the pogroms of the Russian-speaking population began in Azerbaijan, because of which the number of Russians in Azerbaijan fell from 20 to 5 percent. Although, in my opinion, Azerbaijanis and Armenians ... They all wanted independence from Russia, and independent states should feed and arm themselves at their own expense, and not at the expense of Russia.
    1. Seal
      Seal 25 February 2016 15: 47
      +2
      Although, in my opinion, Azerbaijanis and Armenians ... They all wanted independence from Russia, and independent states should feed and arm themselves at their own expense, and not at the expense of Russia.

      Exactly. Have money - let them buy. There is no money for our weapons - let the blacks buy our used weapons.
      For reference. If the Russian-speaking population in Azerbaijan from the beginning of Gorbachev’s rule to the present day has decreased by 5-6 times, in Armenia - by 9-10 times.
      There was something in the region of 79 thousand, now there are less than 7 thousand. And that is not a fact. Armenians cannot figure out themselves. The results of the 2011 census were published only in 2014. Like, for so long everyone thought. As a result, it was estimated that there are three million. And even a little more. The opposition believes that in reality there are 2 million Armenians in Armenia.
      http://newsland.com/user/4296734684/content/4172611
      Contrary to the official data of the National Statistical Service, according to which the population of Armenia as of April 1, 2009 was 3.238.900 people, the newspaper "Hraparak" ("Square") publishes completely different information. The newspaper claims that the ambassador of one of the European countries in Yerevan, whose name has not been disclosed, citing his own sources said that the official data on the population is almost twice as high as the real one. According to him, the current population of the republic is less than 2 million people.

      And some opposition figures - even less so.
      http://www.ng.ru/cis/2000-08-16/5_melody.html
    2. strannik1985
      strannik1985 25 February 2016 16: 07
      0
      This is all wonderful, but the consequences of the new conflict over the NKR will again, including Russia, be dismantled. Maintaining your current position is cheaper.
  • xam0
    xam0 25 February 2016 15: 00
    +5
    Themselves turned away from Russia, they wanted the support of the West, and they threw them! Now it’s envious that Russia supports its loyal allies.
  • Seal
    Seal 25 February 2016 15: 31
    0
    Quote: genisis
    Azerbaijan will never be an ally of the Russian Federation.

    This is not required of him. The main thing is that he be firmly attached to us. And so that Azerbaijan will not get away from us, the Armenians will come in handy lol
    And only after that, when we will tightly bind Azerbaijan to ourselves, only then will it be possible to gradually feed Armenia with weapons. So that Azerbaijan clearly understands that if it tries even a little bit to loosen the rope that ties it to Russia, then the Armenians may again begin to take Karabakh.
  • newcomer
    newcomer 25 February 2016 15: 44
    +7
    Seal, well, you are a strategist. write a lot, but empty. your vision of the problem, at the end of your epic, has contradicted you.
    1. Seal
      Seal 25 February 2016 16: 13
      0
      Please justify where exactly and in what you saw the contradiction?
  • MASK
    MASK 25 February 2016 15: 55
    +5
    Do not leave Armenia! We helped, we help and we will help ... But they know how to defend themselves and weapons are not for parades and show-offs!
    1. Seal
      Seal 26 February 2016 07: 23
      -1
      Do not leave Armenia!

      What made you forgive the Armenians for this atrocity?
      http://rosgeroika.ru/geroi-nashego-vremeni/2013/july/lejtenant-shapovalov-oruzhi
      ya-ne-predal
      And in the very center of Leninakan, on the central square of the city, where the Russian guys then continued to share bread and the last shirt with the Armenians who suffered from the earthquake, Lieutenant Alexander Shapovalov, sergeants Yevgeny Poddubnyak and Oleg Yudintsev, privates Mikhail Karpov and Nikolai Maslennikov were greeted with heavy fire automatic weapons and grenade launcher. As experts later calculated, there were 216 holes in the car body of Shapovalov. Bullets and fragments literally tore young bodies and pure bold hearts of children.


      Why are they better than the Turks?
    2. Seal
      Seal 27 February 2016 07: 58
      0
      Well, actually the level of argumentation of the Armenians and those who are their fifth column in Russia. Regardless of what the Armenians do to us, they still demand that Russia help the Armenians. These masks of Russian blood are not at all sorry for the protection of Armenian interests. Well, still, why pity her, the blood is not theirs, but ours.
      But they still can’t lie.
      We helped, we help and we will help ...

      No ! This has not always been so. There was a time when our Emperors still saw through them. And put in place.
      Let me remind you of historical facts !!!
      For a long time, the Armenians managed to lead our kings by the nose, posing as Orthodox Christians, starting with Paul the First. But in the end, our kings finally figured out what their subjects of your nationality are like. Having entered the throne, Alexander III first of all immediately expels Loris-Melikov from service and instructs the new Minister of Internal Affairs Tolstoy to take measures against Armenian nationalism. By the end of the 1880s, almost all Armenians were dismissed from government posts in the Russian Empire, and in 1885 Armenian school, in 1889 the course of history and geography of Armenia was excluded from schooling. But especially Nicholas II took up the Armenians. At first, in 1897-1899 laws were passed on the transfer of parish schools of Armenia to the Ministry of Education. And on June 12, 1903, the Regulation “On the Concentration of Property Management of the Armenian-Gregorian Church in Russia in the possession of government institutions” was adopted. According to it, all real estate (including profitable land) and capital belonging to the Armenian church and religious institutions passed into the jurisdiction of the state. True, this cannot be called complete confiscation, since the share of their owner, the Armenian religious institutions, was allocated from the proceeds from the sale of confiscated property and cash. And only the revolution of 1905, when it really became not up to the Armenians, forced Nicholas II to turn off this right path.
  • newcomer
    newcomer 25 February 2016 15: 55
    +4
    Seal I will answer you with the words of Macedonian, in response to the ultimatum from the Iranian Pasha (if memory serves). “Do not scare a good slaughterer with a herd of sheep.”
  • Prisoner
    Prisoner 25 February 2016 16: 12
    0
    Insolent, however.
  • Seal
    Seal 25 February 2016 16: 17
    +1
    Quote: newbie
    Seal I will answer you with the words of Macedonian, in response to the ultimatum from the Iranian Pasha (if memory serves). “

    How old are you, father? Have you personally heard the words of A. Macedonian himself? Lord, how many different types of "historical" anecdotes go around the world. But there are those who also refer to these anecdotes. lol
  • Abbra
    Abbra 25 February 2016 17: 09
    +1
    Come to Chaltyr, Rostov Region. Russia Consider.
  • newcomer
    newcomer 25 February 2016 17: 27
    +2
    Seal If you consider a historical fact a joke, then your thoughts about the present become clear. Alexander of Macedon defeated the 60000 million Persian army by the 2th army. read the story at your leisure, this is useful.
    1. Bakht
      Bakht 25 February 2016 17: 57
      +1
      Again. Oh, these pseudo-histories ....

      2 millionth army !!!!!!!!!!!!! I am in shock. Have you definitely studied history? Napoleon’s army 600. Hitler’s army 000 million. Where did Darius feed these 5 million? Or the same Alexander 2?

      "Read the story at your leisure. It's helpful."
      1. Bakht
        Bakht 25 February 2016 18: 05
        0
        Just for reference for history "connoisseurs"

        Battle of Granik
        At the battle of Granik, the numerical superiority was on the side of the Greco-Macedonian army. Alexander had at his disposal 32 foot soldiers and 000 cavalrymen. Darius could oppose him no more than 5100 thousand foot soldiers, half of whom were Greeks, and no more than 20 thousand Persian cavalrymen.


        Battle of Issus
        On the side of the Greco-Macedonian army there was a general numerical superiority and an advantage in the infantry. The Persians, on the other hand, had somewhat more numerous cavalry, but the place of battle for its actions was unsuccessfully chosen.


        Battle of Gaugamela
        For the first time, the Persians were going to use against Alexander 100 war chariots equipped with sharp sickle-shaped knives, and 15 elephants. The size of the Persian army is unknown, but it is unlikely that it exceeded 30 thousand, given the losses in previous battles, the withdrawal of Greek mercenaries, the enemy’s occupation of half of the empire’s territory and the small mobilization capacity of the eastern satrapies of the Persian state. Alexander, who received reinforcements from Greece and was able to recruit replenishment in Asia Minor cities, had this time an army of 56 thousand people, including 4 thousand (according to other sources - 7 thousand) cavalrymen and 30 thousand hoplites. The Persians had superiority in cavalry: according to Delbrück, they had up to 12 thousand horsemen. The number of Persian infantry was only slightly higher than this number.
        1. Seal
          Seal 26 February 2016 00: 30
          0
          Just for reference for history "connoisseurs"

          And the same thing applies to you.
          historical fact
          A historical fact is a particular action in history that has a number of cross-evidence, including at least one documentary one. Personally, in relation to military operations, I prefer to read genuine (photocopies, photocopies) documents (orders, combat reports, operational maps). More memories of the participants. If the book is by an author who lived much later than the events described or elsewhere in the world, then it deserves attention only when the author gives GENUINE DOCUMENTS or even quotes from genuine memoirs of participants in the events on its pages (although it is better to double-check the quotes).
          And by what documents did you establish the number of opposing armies? By fiction? Or according to the documents? If the literature - you are not interested. If according to genuine historical documents - then be so kind as to share them with the people.
          Maybe you found a genuine letter from A. Macedon’s home, to Macedonia, to my mother with a description of her exploits, such as
          "Mom, do not worry. Everything is fine. Yesterday (year, month, day) I once again defeated the Persians. There were more of us and we beat them (further description, how exactly). Love, kiss, your son A. Macedonian." Date, signature.

          Or do you have genuine, that is, lifetime recordings, memoirs of some veteran of this battle, which side does not matter?

          In the Middle Ages, among the numerous novels about Alexander the Great (he was not yet called "Macedonian"), there was such a cycle that Alexander first crossed over to Italy, conquered Rome, then from there crossed over to Tunisia, passed Libya, conquered Egypt and only created such the bridgehead decided to go to war with Persia. This, incidentally, is a more logical option than the one that he went straight to Persia and beat everyone there.
          But when they began to compose the history of "Ancient Rome" this episode was not included. Well, and accordingly, he began to gradually disappear from literature. And if you included - then you would study that "A. Macedonian, having taken Rome, crossed over to Africa .....".

          Also try to learn to distinguish between "historical fact" and "historical version". Even if the historical version was expressed by Delbrück himself - without supporting documents, this is just the private opinion of Mr. Delbrück hi
    2. Seal
      Seal 26 February 2016 00: 21
      0
      historical fact
      A historical fact is a particular action in history that has a number of cross-evidence, including at least one documentary one. Personally, in relation to military operations, I prefer to read genuine (photocopies, photocopies) documents (orders, combat reports, operational maps). More memories of the participants. If the book is by an author who lived much later than the events described or elsewhere in the world, then it deserves attention only when the author gives GENUINE DOCUMENTS or even quotes from genuine memoirs of participants in the events on its pages (although it is better to double-check the quotes).
      And by what documents did you establish the number of opposing armies? By fiction? Or according to the documents? If the literature - you are not interested. If according to genuine historical documents - then be so kind as to share them with the people.
      Maybe you found a genuine letter from A. Macedon’s home, to Macedonia, to my mother with a description of her exploits, such as
      "Mom, do not worry. Everything is fine. Yesterday (year, month, day) I once again defeated the Persians. There were 2 million of them (hmm, I wonder how then the Macedonians or Greeks wrote down the number" million "in what numbers or letters. And in general, did they know such a number?), And there are 60 thousand of us. But we are them (hereinafter, a description of how we are them). I love, whole, your son A. Macedonian. " Date, signature.

      Or do you have genuine, that is, lifetime recordings, memoirs of some veteran of this battle, which side does not matter?

      You, who undertook to teach here in matters of history - do you even know that in the Middle Ages, among the numerous novels about Alexander the Great (he was not yet called "Macedonian"), there was such a cycle that Alexander first crossed over to Italy, conquered Rome, then from there he crossed over to Tunisia, passed Libya, conquered Egypt, and only having created such a bridgehead did he decide to go to war with Persia. By the way, this is a more logical option than the one that he went straight to Persia and beat everyone there.
      But when they began to compose the history of "Ancient Rome" this episode was not included. Well, and accordingly, he began to gradually disappear from literature. And if you included - then you would study that "A. Macedonian, having taken Rome, crossed over to Africa .....".
      Never consider yourself smarter than others hi
      And try to already learn to distinguish between "historical fact" and "historical version" hi
      1. Seal
        Seal 26 February 2016 01: 09
        0
        Here is an example of a historical document. And that is not genuine, but copies. But copies taken at that time.

        “Letter from Minister of War General Barclay de Tolly to the Smolensk Civil Governor on the arrival of his army in Vitebsk, on the connection with the army of P. I. Bagration. On the back, an appeal to the residents of Moscow. Without end. Playback Method:
        Handwritten copy
        Storage location: РГАЛиИ
        Archive Code: f. 427 op. 1 unit hr 3436. "

        Here is a photocopy of this copy.
        http://www.1812-rgali.ru/index.php?view=varchive&l=documents&i=427-1-3436

        Do you have letters from A. the Great to your governor, or whoever they were to him with orders:
        - gather troops in such a place to march on Persia;
        - deliver food to such a place to provide troops;
        - to drive horses or mules ....
        - Announcement of benefits to those who go to war with the Persians, well, for example, exemption from taxes ..

        Yes, any military (and not only military, but also civilian) big deal is not done by wave of a magic wand. You need to make a huge number of preparatory activities. And all of them should in one way or another without distortion be communicated to the performers, and from the performers there must be a reciprocal flow of documents on implementation. Or about the reasons for non-compliance and requests to reduce the volume of requirements.
        Where there was writing, it should already be WRITTEN documents.
        And where there is no written language (well, in the Amazon jungle) - there are no states and no one is going to conquer someone further than the neighboring village.
        1. Bakht
          Bakht 26 February 2016 11: 18
          +1
          All that you wrote is true. But what do I have to do with it? I questioned the 2 millionth army, based on the simple fact that no one could feed and support it. The size of the population, the relief of the battlefield, and the logic matter. There are no documents and cannot be for the simple reason that most of them were destroyed. And the rest corresponded up to ten times.

          The tales that a handful of Greeks defeated many thousands of Persian armies on the battlefield are ridiculous. At least just a mass crushed. At that time they fought more in bulk. Hence the deep construction of the phalanx.

          Even with written history, there is a lot of controversy. Just a couple of years ago I had a great controversy over the Kulikovo field. Despite the fact that there is a document called "Zadonshchina", that is, beyond the Don, the place of the battle is almost transferred to Moscow.

          Returning to our topic. The army of Iskender (that is, Alexander) was not much inferior to the Persian army. And why it happened it is necessary to look for the reason in the poor organizational qualities of Darius. But no one will find real documents. They are simply not there. But can we even compare the armies of that time and modernity?
          1. Seal
            Seal 26 February 2016 21: 38
            0
            Given that there is a document called "Zadonshchina",

            First, "Zadonshchina" is not a document, but a poetic work. Once again, what is a DOCUMENT.
            1. Decrees, orders, orders of kings, emperors, consuls, caesars, princes, Augustus, boyars, satraps, pharaohs or anyone else who could be in the power structures of the “Ancient Great Country or Ancient Great State” on any topic: to gather an army, to dissolve army, introduce taxes, exempt someone from taxes, build a city, a canal .. but at least something from a series of documents that accompany the normal life of a normal state.
            2. Diplomatic correspondence. Well, for example, a letter to a neighboring state asking for help against, well, for example, any external enemies. More precisely, the letter itself, if there was one, went to the addressee, so it means that the addressee needs an answer on the topic whether he will help or not. Or a letter to all neighbors that the local king, padishah, pharaoh, emperor, bogdykhan ....
            2.1. someone was born
            2.2. he himself ascended the throne
            2.3. the king (khan, padishah) wants to get married and is looking for a bride
            2.4. the next daughter has grown up at the tsar and he invites grooms

            3. Private correspondence from which at least something can be understood. Well, for example, a letter from a merchant. A lawsuit to a merchant Igrek on the subject: “Hi Igrek, I am going to go to trade in (the place is indicated). They say that now there is a new king, shah, sultan, bogdykhan, emperor, Caesar, August, September, the speaker of the Senate (name) introduced privileges for us (additional taxes). Can you send me your man who is versed in these matters. I have a bottle. ”
            4. Private notes (memoirs) are not for printing. For instance. Yesterday (the year according to the famous chronological scale) was in the palace. The king, khan, bogdykhan, padishah, emperor, Caesar, August, September, Senate speaker (name) kindly talked to me. How good he is, our king khan, bogdykhan, padishah, emperor, caesar, august, september, speaker of the senate (name). "

            Returning to our topic.
            For God's sake, come back, so what?
            Returning to our topic. The army of Iskender (that is, Alexander) was not much inferior to the Persian army.

            What DOCUMENT is the basis of your statements? What is a document - see above.
            1. Bakht
              Bakht 27 February 2016 10: 37
              0
              You are so eagerly trying to prove something to me. My post was not addressed to you. Someone wrote "read the story at your leisure." It seems to me clear what a document is. BUT strictly speaking about the events 200-300 years ago application documents generally few survived. About 2000 years there is nothing at all. Remained poetic legends. Homer did not write documents either, but nobody seemed to doubt the presence of Troy. Zadonshchina is also not a document, if only because it corresponded more than once. And it seems that historians have proved that there are foreign pieces. Does anyone doubt the events on the Kulikovo field?

              At that time, one can not talk about the events of the times of Alexander the Great. Again. I questioned the fact that Darius had a 2 million army. And he advised the author to "read the story at your leisure." Not advised you. Review the start of the discussion.

              According to the army of Alexander. Fighting a small army against a large one has always been problematic. In ancient centuries, even more so. With great numerical superiority, the mass and the depth of construction were decided by the width of the front. Plus the mobilization opportunities of Greece. Neither you nor I have and cannot have a single document that era. There are memories, legends, poetic works. I strongly doubt that the army of Alexander was so much inferior to the army of Darius. According to generally accepted terminology application documents I do not have. Do you have any documents of that era? Strict documents, not memories?

              I can now recall memories that, leaving for Persia, Alexander left half of his army in Macedonia. I don’t have a document in your understanding. There are memories.
  • doework
    doework 25 February 2016 18: 10
    +4
    "Azerbaijan tomorrow" = "Turkey today"
    Let them sit and keep quiet!
    1. Bakht
      Bakht 26 February 2016 11: 31
      +1
      "Be silent if you want to talk to me!"

      I thought this was the principle of the soldier. Apparently, he was mistaken.
  • PValery53
    PValery53 25 February 2016 18: 21
    +1
    To protest? - They have a right! - No more. But in fact: there is no need to upset the balance of forces in the zone of the Armenian-Azerbaijani conflict. Bo otherwise - there will be extra deaths of innocent people.
  • himanru
    himanru 25 February 2016 19: 30
    0
    Does it require? Why, then, should Russia not demand from Azerbaijan demilitarization in the conflict zone?
    And how can the seller of goods guarantee the specific intended use (non-use) of the goods by the buyer?
  • MASK
    MASK 25 February 2016 19: 49
    +4
    Moscow gave a loan to Yerevan for $ 200 million

    They will master them, in the direction of the target! I am sure .. Judging by the tank biathlon, the Armenian tankmen are "fighting" and their skills are at a high level! Azerbaijan bought 4 billion weapons from Russia (they wanted to intimidate Armenia ..?))) Alas, our Armenians are still shooters and tankers!
  • Seal
    Seal 15 September 2019 17: 33
    0
    Quote: garnik64
    Pomponia Map
    Did you forget to add that "in G. Philip's reconstruction?"
    But the map of Pomponius Mela BEFORE RECONSTRUCTION you saw? And someone (except Philip G.) saw?
    Let me remind you that the first edition of Mela's work was published in Milan in 1471. The first good publication was that of Vadianus (Basel, 1522), followed by Voss (1658), I. Gronovius (1685 and 1696), A. Gronovius (1722 and 1728), Tzschucke (1806-1807), in seven parts (Leipzig; the most detailed of all); the best text is published by G. Paithey (Berlin, 1867).
    And the questions are THERE IS !!!
    In addition to the map, Pomponius Mela also has a descriptive part. The map itself is just an illustration of the narrative. So we are conducting an experiment. Copy the descriptive part to WORD. We drive by search:
    1. "armenia" .... - result "Nothing found".
    2. "arme" ... - result "Nothing found".
    3. We just drive "arm". As a result, the search results in several "sARMs" and "sarmats".
    And no Armenians !!!!
    So maybe you look for a map of Pomponius Mela in the ORIGINAL, before the reconstruction of G. Philip?
    And then in my opinion it turns out somehow inconvenient. There is an inscription "Armenia" on the reconstructed map, but in the descriptive part there is no, even indirect, mention of Armenia or Armenians (Armenians).
    Or is it just the opposite for you, familiar and convenient?
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  • Seal
    Seal 15 September 2019 17: 42
    0
    Quote: Bakht
    There are memories.
    Memories of the participants in the hike? Written during the lifetime of that same participant? Or, as usual, memoirs that were passed "from mouth to mouth" for 1500 years, until they were written in the Middle Ages, or even immediately printed?