The Russian Federation is considering the possibility of developing submarines with a high level of automation systems

Russian designers are considering the possibility of creating nuclear submarinesrobots with a sharply reduced crew due to the high automation of ship systems, reports MIC with the link "Lentu.ru".

“Such submarines were previously built in the USSR, and new technologies will enable them to create more reliable counterparts,” a defense industry source told the publication. - We have twenty years of experience in operating the 705 (705K) Lira project boats in the 1970-90s. It was a very promising project, but its disadvantage was the concentration of too many new technical solutions at the same time. ”

According to the interlocutor, “the Soviet submarines of the 705 project, whose crew was reduced to 32 man vs 70 and more in the same class boats of the same age, were not very successful due to the difficult maintenance that led to long breaks between hikes.”

And although there were no accidents with loss of life on these submarines, nevertheless, “the reliability of their equipment was inadequate, and regular minor breakdowns reduced combat readiness,” he noted.

“It is not necessary to build a completely revolutionary boat, as was done on the 705 project, where an innovative liquid metal coolant reactor, highly automated equipment, and a number of other innovations, including a titanium alloy casing, were used at the same time. very compact volume, said the source. - A more rational way seems to be the creation of a robot submarine of a usual displacement for this class on the basis of developed technical solutions with increasing automation. The crew of this submarine can be reduced to 50-55, and later to 30-40 people. "

Help newspaper: “Nuclear submarines of project 705 (705K) Lira were built for the USSR Navy in Leningrad in 1968 and Severodvinsk in 1967, while the construction of the lead boat in Sevmash was delayed until 1977 in connection with the investigation of the causes of the accident of a nuclear power plant on the head submarine K -64, which went into operation in 1971. In total, from 1971 to 1981, the USSR Navy received seven submarines of this project. In the 1990s, Project 705 boats were decommissioned. fleet, in the second half of the zero - disposed of. "

Comments

[Ami du peuple]

The question is being considered, you say? It’s not about fat, if the costs of new defense developments are reduced. Including submarines. Now there would be those submarines that would be built in the rearmament program. However, dreaming about prospects is never harmful. God grant, someday it will come to its realization.

[Pravdarm]

Quote: Ami du peuple

someday and comes to life.

Not all at once, of course! But it’s great if they even start designing!
Imagine the savings and optimization! air, water, havchika, dough, bedside electronics do not need! The space for it is being freed or cut! (more compact). Electronics works around the clock without sleep, again! The shift on duty will of course be on duty! Software engineers, electricians, ... But that's the minimum!

[Altona]

Quote: Pravdarm

Not all at once, of course! But it’s great if they even start designing!

---------------------------
The human factor is notorious. Reduce dependence on a person, on his psycho-emotional state.

[dmi.pris1]

Here it is necessary to pull out domestic electronics from under the plinth, starting from the elementary base to complex automated control systems. At the moment, it seems unlikely due to you know what .. My heart was bleeding when I passed the Iskra Smolensk factories (there, in the late 80s, domestic PCs were made) and "Diffusion" (they did ACS there) Nothing remained of these factories ..

[Temples]

Here it is necessary to pull out domestic electronics from under the baseboard, starting from elementary base to complex ACS

The base is of course elementary, and professor burdock.
And you also need to raise the vegetable base.
And slightly raise the base of the reciever, to the heap so to speak.

[bk316]

Quote: dmi.pris

Here it is necessary to pull out domestic electronics from under the baseboard, starting from the elementary base to complex automated control systems.

Do not use words whose meanings you do not fully understand.
Is the CPU control question an element base or not?

Quote: Altona

"Diffusion" (they did ACS there) Nothing remained of these factories

Did you do that right? ACS? Soldering iron probably

By the way, hello from "Diffusion", from which there is nothing left: diold.ru

[dmi.pris1]

Yes, the central processor is the element base .. Well, there are some mistakes, excuse me ..

Quote: bk316

Quote: dmi.pris

Here it is necessary to pull out domestic electronics from under the baseboard, starting from the elementary base to complex automated control systems.

Do not use words whose meanings you do not fully understand.
Is the CPU control question an element base or not?

Quote: Altona

"Diffusion" (they did ACS there) Nothing remained of these factories

Did you do that right? ACS? Soldering iron probably

By the way, hello from "Diffusion", from which there is nothing left: diold.ru

[dmi.pris1]

And where will you get the money for the design? Although this question is purely political, when was there money in our country? After the war or what? And it’s not necessary to say that convicts built such a country by slaves .. EVERYTHING was built. And now, there’s one decision to turn around politics completely countries from the oligarchic-plundering regime to a real national (socialist, whatever you call) economy and everything will work out, I believe in it. I do not believe that Putin will take such a step, he has grown into this system ..

[Starover_Z]

Quote: Pravdarm

Imagine the savings and optimization! air, water, havchika, dough, bedside electronics do not need!

Yeah yeah but :
It will be necessary to introduce duplication of systems and more than once!
The crew is only an officer and a contract, and this is not 3 rubles 80 kopecks as a conscript in Soviet times!
And crew training should grow!
They went camping, a boat for inspection
(I’m probably a land hunter, I don’t know, I’m only guessing)
and then refueling and camping again.
And what, the same crew goes on the same boat?
There is no way to win finance, except for maintenance, if the coastal infrastructure is adequate, although there is no saving ...
Perhaps these boats will be deeper, which will increase their stealth!
In short, the fleet needs reliable boats!

[Igluxnumx]

Duplication of systems has long been used, say, in aviation. On the submarine "Lira" there were officers and midshipmen, with the exception of the cook. Automation electronics need reliable, yes! And this requires modern technologies in production, here we are lagging behind both in development and in implementation. It is hardly possible to speak about savings here, but about efficiency .... As for deep water: the Lyres had a titanium hull, they could dive almost 1 km, I hope the hulls were not cut, they would have been used! And with such a hull, at a depth of 500-600 m and with a stroke of 30-40 knots, the Americans can forget about their defensive lines, maybe then they would start thinking differently. Eh, are we really going to live?

[demchuk.ig]

Quote: Iglu40

Oh, really survive?

Comrade believe, she will come. The star of captivating happiness! We will live, I hope! Well, not we, then at least our children! After all, "Lyra" was made!

[Denis Obukhov]

If the tray is without people, then it can sail where it is necessary and lie down to the bottom. It will go into sleep mode and will lie for years listening to the broadcast ..

[Lt. Air Force stock]

As for the concentration of new technical solutions in submarines, for some reason I got the impression that the United States has a%% novelty when building new submarine projects than ours. Already at the design stage, the designer goes further and as a result, when the submarine appears in the metal, it lags far behind the technical thought of the designers, in other words, many newer technical solutions appear.
You need to put the best practices into submarines, and not hold them until better times.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Lt. air force reserve

Already at the design stage, the designer goes further and as a result, when the submarine appears in the metal

Just to implement a new solution will have to redo the already designed. Sometimes this is something insignificant, but it may turn out that you need to re-arrange the entire compartment.

[Dr. Bormental]

Vogt Alfred Elton Wang wrote the short story "Awakening" long ago. It is about the fact that billions of years ago there was a war and an atomic bomb-robot accidentally flew onto our planet, which earthlings took for a cliff of a rock. The robot bomb slept until the Americans shook Hiroshima. The robot was waiting for an influx of radiation. Well, of course, getting it gasped our entire planet. By chance. Read a funny story.
P.S. "Atomic bombs - robots do not reason" - the last lines of the story))

[AlexTires]

Quote: Denis Obukhov

If the tray is without people, then it can sail where it is necessary and lie down to the bottom. It will go into sleep mode and will lie for years listening to the broadcast ..

then the 2's ruble valve flowed and the boat sank, because there was no person on it to change it ...

[GSH-18]

Quote: AlexTires

Similar submarines were previously built in the USSR, and new technologies will create their more reliable counterparts, a source in the defense industry told the publication.

Well, if so. And if, due to a leak, a couple of circuits of electronic circuits is closed, and the robot bomb decided that it was time ??!

[Tra-ta-ta]

It will go into sleep mode and will lie for years listening to the broadcast ..
For some reason, I immediately remembered Captain Vrungel and St. Pom. Scrap..!

But seriously, then idea good only on condition that our electronics and other automation elements have stepped guaranteed far forward and will not lead in combat situations to numerous failures of mechanisms and weapons due to vibration, shaking, and deep-bombs.

[Dimon19661]

Modern trays do not lie at the bottom, and they are not able to listen to the air.

[alexander 2]

This will not be a completely submarine. And what? They give us missile defense to our borders, and we give them such submarine platforms with nuclear missiles at their borders. After all, the United States has most of its maritime borders. Often you do not have to change the location. Only if detected. Let them lie for years without betraying themselves, and do not need any Cuba. Of course, some of these platforms will be discovered and neutralized in the event of war, but there will never be confidence that all platforms will be discovered. The noise of such platforms is zero, and the dimensions are relatively small. How many of them are not known. Therefore, to find everything is not realistic, therefore, the amerian missile defense system loses all meaning. Even psychological.

[demchuk.ig]

Quote: Denis Obukhov

It will go into sleep mode and will lie for years listening to the broadcast ..

And in a month it will be detected by magnetometers and chopped like a nut, with one depth bomb!

[MASK]

Quote: Ami du peuple

God grant, someday it will come to its realization.

Such developments have been going on for a long time (back in the days of the USSR) And with the current technologies (and work experience), it is quite possible that they sit at the bottom and wait in the wings (sometimes emerging) .. Russia is a mysterious country! They are afraid of us not only for the Topol and Tu-160, etc. We keep a large territory nevertheless .. And why and how?

[sgazeev]

It is worth noting that the personnel who served on Lyre, including the commander of the last boat withdrawn from the fleet in 1997, in his interview expressed disagreement with Apalkov’s estimates [12]. Although Lira was more difficult to maintain, it was obvious to the sailors that in the battle she would save their lives, not only by defeating the enemy submarines, but also by using the crew’s first-time evacuation capsule.

In his criticism, Apalkov Yu.V. did not indicate a real drawback, widely known to those who served on the nuclear submarine, and to Western experts [13] - noise due to high speed. In fact, the tactics boiled down to the fact that upon finding the enemy's nuclear submarine, Lyra simply took the position of the pursuer and, due to the advantage in speed and maneuverability, compensated for her unmasking with noise and could pursue the caught NATO missile carrier for days without allowing him to take a covert position again. It should be noted that the increased noise of Lyrae's reactor was a "childhood illness" of her liquid metal core reactor, because when using "electromagnetic pumps" for circulating the coolant LMC reactors are much quieter than conventional ones [14] The advantage of the "single-shaft" power plant in high efficiency was used, but not in the traditionally low noise level of single-shaft systems due to the absence of additional gearboxes. [15]

Analysis of the accident with the coolant shows that the boat that suffered the accident was ordered to be sent to sea in an out-of-order condition - without completing the replacement of the oxidized coolant. [16] The technically complex maintenance of the boat by coastal services with maintaining the temperature of the coolant and its replacement in practice could not be organized properly, but the constant presence of the boats in "combat mode" because of this ensured an unusually high readiness to go to sea immediately [13] In practice, it really affected that this is the first experience of liquid metal cooling reactors, now the problem of coolant solidification is solved with the simplest thermal accumulator. [16]

Although, in order to save the resource, the Lyrae reactor did often stand at the bases waiting for the anti-submarine weapons to find the submarine, but after that they could quickly go out into the area and "stick" to their victim. The danger of Lear as a hunter was understood by NATO sailors even in some places much more than by domestic ones. Defenselessness against nuclear submarines capable of dodging torpedoes along with the inability to break away from the "hunter" was frightening. [12] Only by 1988 was the Spearfish high-speed torpedo launched, which had sufficient speed to sustainably defeat Lyra. The decommissioning of the nuclear submarine was associated not with reliability, but with the appearance of NATO high-speed torpedoes, which deprived the noisy nuclear submarine of the main advantage in speed and anti-torpedo maneuver.

[jjj]

Quote: sgazeev

the real flaw [13] is the noise due to the high speed.

When AUG stumbles in the meadow, she herself does not hear anything. And our boats managed to overtake an aircraft carrier under water, remaining unnoticed

[Samurai3X]

The main problem of this submarine is that it turned out to be a goldfish. Even if they started up a series and optimized production. Thank God, the development experience was preserved and was not drank by anyone.

[kote119]

she was in serial production

[arane]

Dear Alexander. With respect, I allow myself to disagree with many points from what you wrote. Everything is much more complicated and ambiguous. Speed ​​for PL is of course an important parameter, but it is not even secondary. In addition to torpedoes, there are other means of destruction. Plus, I strongly doubt that the lyre would have heard the torpedo of the enemy, being at full speed. More precisely, one hundred percent she would not have heard anything. And to drop her, deaf, yelling at the floor of the ocean, an anti-submarine missile on her head would not be difficult. A torpedo from a rocket in the counter course will take it, because it is induced by noise.
All the same, the main weapon of PL is the stealth and range of detection of the enemy. If we were already fine with stealth on third-generation boats, then in terms of acoustics we are lagging behind, and in information processing facilities. I mean the situation pl — pl. although from the experience of 50 on 50.
And the simplest example is that it has powerful acoustics compared to 877 etc. We always lost to them because their low noise level is much better than ours

[Inok10]

Quote: arane

Dear Alexander. With respect, I allow myself to disagree with many points from what you wrote. Everything is much more complicated and ambiguous. Speed ​​for PL is of course an important parameter, but it is not even secondary. In addition to torpedoes, there are other means of destruction. Plus, I strongly doubt that the lyre would have heard the torpedo of the enemy, being at full speed. More precisely, one hundred percent she would not have heard anything. And to drop her, deaf, yelling at the floor of the ocean, an anti-submarine missile on her head would not be difficult. A torpedo from a rocket in the counter course will take it, because it is induced by noise.

... with Alexander Batkovich ( sgazeev), I just agree in many ways ... he is right in many respects ... except for the reason for the cancellation of "Lira" ... it was not in the newfangled NATO torpedoes ... "Lira" could get away from any torpedo simply by using its opportunity to leave below 1000 m, aunt Vika needs to read less about the maximum immersion depth ... here you need to understand simple things ... they were taught in Physics from the school bench ... like, like the Sky, it's sky everywhere Blue, so beautiful ... that's just ... the physical properties of air, at an altitude of 500 m . and 20000 m. they turn out to be different, the speed at 500 m will not be equal at 20000 meters, even sound ... eco, that's it, that ... so with the Blue Sea ... somewhere but Black, Blue in the Baltic, and in the North Lead ... and at every depth the water has its own properties ... what are we talking about ... at depths of up to 350 m. NATO with damn (not by nightfall will be remembered) help somehow managed to create a torpedo with a speed of 120 km / h and a range of 54 km ... but that's not a problem, at a depth of 600 m. the same torpedo already had more modest characteristics ... the pressure is already higher and the density of water is also higher, and resistance is also growing ... and the initial speed drops ... and the maximum that they could achieve 20 km. range and 60 km / h. at a depth of 600 m. ... this is what the struggle is about to this day ... "Lyra" from such a depth also had the same drawbacks ... even if she could "hear" there was nothing to amaze with ... then only torpedoes of this level were developed ... and the best that ours showed at exhibitions for 2003 was 110 km / h with a range of 55 km. ... but alas and ah, the maximum depth is 400 m. ... in general, the submarine pr. 705 / 705K "Lira" is like the "Ilya Muromets" airplane, they would have decent weapons and the price would not be for both at the time of their creation .. One thing pleases me that at the moment everything that was invested in "Lira" by the designers remains relevant to this day! ... And the reactor on the liquid metal core and the titanium body and the very idea of ​​the "fighter-interceptor" boat ... everything is relevant to the present day ... it just requires processing at a modern technological level, the design of the 705th was started 1959 year in 1968 started building ... now in the yard 2016 year ... ... I think we'll see "Lyra-2" again ...
P.S. .. never a submariner, just spent an hour reading and remember physics ...

[mav1971]

Quote: Inok10

P.S. .. never a submariner, just spent an hour reading and remember physics ...

And now take another time to find out what the trim, its limiting values ​​are.
This will give you an understanding of the process of the maximum speed of submersion of submarines.
At the same time, see how they are trying to control the submarines, so as not to "fail" to the beyond.
And compare it with the maneuverable characteristics of a torpedo.
And I think that in 95% of your calculations, you will see that you will not be able to instantly dive from a torpedo, "ala" to instantly hide in a house 1000 meters away.
Diving to ultimate depths is such a critical process that it cannot be "one-and-one".

It can also be possible to hide when a submarine has an 10 mile handicap, in distance to the torpedo.
If miles 2-3 - then in my opinion - will not go away.

[Homo]

Quote: Ami du peuple

The question is being considered, you say? It's not about fat ...

And again "chief, everything is gone, ...". Not tired of burying Russia?

[PKK]

When they write about the disposal of still new submarines, I recall Gorbach and Margaret.

[Armored optimist]

Another element base, new materials. It should work out. And even it will be much cheaper. At all stages - design, construction, operation.

[Wheel]

Quote: armored optimist

. And it will even be much cheaper.

It will not be cheaper in any case.
Capitalism, however ...

[Dr. Bormental]

Nuclear submarine - a robot? Bradberry resting Although it would be cool ...
I generally like robots. I have .. Here in the kitchen now preparing food ... Just kidding, my wife is the most favorite robot in the world.

[Nahum]

She (the wife) constantly and tirelessly stands at the Eternal Fire (stove)! You need to understand. And respect! As for fully robotized nuclear submarines, this is not such a fantasy. The case is 15-20 years old. The crew - on the Big Earth, in the bunker monitors the readings of the sensors and occasionally corrects the set program. And such a boat lays for years near the enemy's shores on the ground, and waits for the command "face!" To launch missiles with nuclear weapons ... I think this is quite real!

[epsilon571]

For a relatively long time, container-type cruise missiles have been using this technology. Everything, as you say, lies near the enemy's shores and is waiting for the FAS command, and it is quite expensive to create submarines for this.

[Dimon19661]

It's just funny ... Do you even read about the methods of communication with the submarine, and then you will understand, there is no way to correct the program and take the readings of the sensors, but for years, generally pearl ...

[TVM - 75]

Fiction, however! If only to lay wires to it.

[Dart2027]

Quote: Dr. Bormental

Nuclear submarine - a robot? Bradberry resting

The journalist has a mistake in terminology. He writes about nuclear submarines with a high level of automation and a reduced crew. Nothing fancy - difficult, but realizable. But this is not a submarine-robot as he calls it in the text - this is already fantastic.

[Mountain shooter]

Finally! With the current development of technology, increasing the automation of such a powerful weapon as a submarine has long been asking. Reducing the crew at the same size - improving habitability. Do not forget that the boat has a rotational system. The inertia of thinking of both naval sailors and designers is colossal. On the other hand, the 705th project has pretty much "drank blood" from both the crews and the developers. Are afraid to a great extent of novelty.

[RomanS]

It's like a Tu-95 and today it is a very relevant aircraft. The development is successful and is still being used, and the installation of more modern equipment opens up new possibilities. Good news!

[Alexey RA]

According to the interlocutor, “the Soviet submarines of the 705 project, whose crew was reduced to 32 man vs 70 and more in the same class boats of the same age, were not very successful due to the difficult maintenance that led to long breaks between hikes.”

EMNIP, the "goldfish" had the main difficulties with the liquid metal reactor. For our fleet, which traditionally neglected the basing conditions, it turned out to be extremely difficult to base such equipment - it was necessary to constantly keep the primary circuit hot and regenerate the coolant. Plus, we have not been able to implement the concept of "two crews": sea and coastal. And without the second crew, the entire load in the base (primarily - for maintaining the reactor) fell on the already reduced main crew, which after the cruise would have to rest.

[Alexander 3]

We are moving towards unmanned underwater systems. Such a complex lies off the coast of the enemy for a very long time, it does not need to be fed, oxygen and circuses too. So we are waiting.

[Dr. Bormental]

Are there any of the submariners? Is it really possible to replace titanic work with a computer program?

[kote119]

no, it’s not real, it’s just nonsense, the equipment breaks down, it needs to be repaired, even at sea, imagine that due to a 2-ruble laying, you can lose a ship for billions of rubles, just because there is no one to replace it with, and no computer brain can replace human

[Dr. Bormental]

So I think so too. Maybe in the bright future, but not now.

[Andrey NM]

Quote: kote119

equipment breaks it needs to be repaired

And then how many reclamation acts to "draw", no paper will be enough ... Or is this procedure simplified now?

[kote119]

all as before

[dvina71]

Quote: Dr. Bormental

Is it really possible to replace titanic work with a computer program?

Not a program, but automatic systems. For example, the atmosphere control system on a submarine has long been automatic. And this is very important. A change in gas concentration by a couple percent can lead to disaster.
The fact is that service on the submarine is on a rotational basis. Constantly. Each compartment has a watch. Automation will allow some compartments to be depopulated, such as a reactor compartment. Somewhere to reduce the shift. This will reduce the crew.

[Dr. Bormental]

Of course, I have little understanding of this, but if the program crashes? I read a lot of A. Pokrovsky, I got the impression that the submarine is something special and the human factor is in the first place there (and leading to accidents and allowing to survive)

[dvina71]

Quote: Dr. Bormental

however if the program crashes?

One of the military requirements for such electronics is modularity and the possibility of replacing the module "hot". There are all sorts of emergency protocols, duplication of physical objects, and control in the field. For this, watches are needed.
Say for duplication of atmospheric control, in each compartment there is a device that shows the composition of the atmosphere. Upon request, the central post from the compartment must report on the quality of the atmosphere.
This is not the difficulty. Observe the balance. Do not overdo it with automation. That is, at the constructive stage, avoid mistakes. Which in the process of construction result in delaying the deadlines, and in the process of operation, in permanent repair.

[kote119]

on which project is the gas control system automatic for a long time?

[dvina71]

Quote: kote119

gas control long automatic

on pr. 949,971,855,945 .. on these for sure. on earlier ones it is necessary to clarify.
I can tell the story of how the FSB was looking for a couple of gas generation cartridges from this system, they contain palladium. The price is sky-high, but the disposal is strictly by numbers and only at one factory. We found them in the fence, in a summer cottage near Moscow. Nobody bought them.

[kote119]

Quote: dvina71

on pr. 949,971,855,945 .. on these for sure

on these projects it’s not automatic for sure, everywhere it’s either stationary (oxygen, hydrogen, freon) or portable, I agree about the FCI, I used to make garages of them, but as they learned from what they were diving craftsmen under the pier for 50 meters

[dvina71]

Quote: kote119

on these projects it’s not automatic for sure, everywhere it’s either stationary (oxygen, hydrogen, freon) or portable, I agree about the FCI, I used to make garages of them, but as they learned from what they were diving craftsmen under the pier for 50 meters

I read .. there is nothing to comment .. Yes, and I continue to argue I see no reason ...
You did not make garages out of them. These are ordinary charcoal to remove pollution and odors. It is not regenerative.
Well, and so .. for reference .. find out what will happen to the metal, with an increase in oxygen concentration up to 25%. And how does the oxygen concentration affect the degree of exposure to radiation, the human body.

[kote119]

and there’s oxygen reception, I’m saying that there are no automation on these projects, gas analyzers are either stationary at separate battle stations or portable at shut-off power units, and I know very well how oxygen affects different materials

[dvina71]

Quote: kote119

I say that there is no automation on these projects,

There is a red lamp on the main post of pr.949, which lights up when the machine cannot correct the atmosphere. With c. compartmentalized posts request analyzer data. Find out where the failure is and change the corresponding generation unit.
If everything is normal with the blocks, the system itself regulates the composition of the air by its sensors.
What's wrong?

[kote119]

at 949 there are no such bulbs in the CPU, on the pu ox there are transparencies for giving the goof, and in front of the CPU there is a board indicating that the level of freon in the compartments is exceeded, all other parameters for gases come from the shift in the compartments

[kote119]

garages were made from fku, but people were looking for fkp in the walls

[kote119]

Quote: dvina71

how oxygen concentration affects the degree of exposure to radiation, the human body.

But where can one be irradiated directly?

[dvina71]

Quote: kote119

But where can one be irradiated directly?

Right, how is it?

[kote119]

where the boat is so phonite that it can be irradiated, if not an accident

[dvina71]

Quote: kote119

where the boat is so phonite that it can be irradiated, if not an accident

And why in the diet?

[kote119]

Do you think that it is from radionuclides? then it’s mono to ask why red caviar. But seriously, as the doctor told us, wine to replenish vitamins and minerals + a moral bonus, and in case of radiation accidents they give pills

[KakoVedi]

Koshak is right. Vintso just to increase appetite ... Against radiation, this does not work.

[From Tver]

As they say it is not clear, but great.

[Dr. Bormental]

"After all, I told him then at breakfast:" You, professor, it is your will, have invented something awkward! It may be clever, but it hurts incomprehensible. They will make fun of you. " Bulgakov. Master and Margarita.

[Nord2015]

I want to hear the opinion of submariners. As a land explorer, I do not want to comment as it were, but I do not want to shout cheers in advance.

[KakoVedi]

Why comment here ?! Old gum! The Americans were the first to experiment with the automation of submarines ... They were the first to change their minds. Then the USSR ... the 705s were "semi-automatic". And they didn't treat underwater robots in any way! Empirically, we came to the conclusion that on the submarine, taking into account the level of development of science, technology, production, etc., etc., management should be 50 to 50 ... Man is "iron". In our time, this attitude is all the more relevant! We must look for the future.

[Hooks]

Sorry, but some kind of crap! "Soviet submarines of project 705 ..." Today is 2016. There are developments, but why can't there be "almost a drone" of the same "Shark"? (But I think that the button should still be pressed by a person).

[Great-grandfather of Zeus]

A victim of the Ege will come to such a submarine, he will slurp the fleet with him with an awl of Pataki.

[sir_obs]

As our commander said, the integral was useful to him only once, when the cap fell into the hold. He bent, said, the wire integral and pulled out.
So that the "victim" is forged in the bursa.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Great-grandfather of Zeus

A victim of the Ege will come to such a submarine, he will slurp the fleet with him with an awl of Pataki.

This is out of the question! The victim of the Unified State Exam will not pass the selection through a very small cell of professional aptitude, health, high pressure and other "steps" of training the crew members of a nuclear-powered ship.

[kote119]

For the modern submarine fleet, this is not typical, the policy is based on the policy of "everything for a contract", some barely write in Russian

[Don36]

In the USSR, there were nuclear submarines of Project 705 Lira, which were distinguished by high automation. During the operation of these nuclear submarines, not a single person died. It is necessary to take into account the experience of operating these nuclear submarines and make new ones, better than the previous ones.

[Great-grandfather of Zeus]

In the next decade, however, we would not be left with a muzzle in our pocket instead of a submarine fleet with ministers such as silhouetteov and the witch. ..

[Alexander 3]

As an underwater autonomous complex, there can simply be a guided nuclear mine.

[Izotovp]

At least 705 projects were finalized on a new element base and with a modified reactor. As far as I heard with the coolant, the problem was solved.

[WSW1WSW]

"Project 705 (705K) Lira nuclear submarines were built for the Soviet Navy in Leningrad since 1968 and Severodvinsk since 1967 ..."
What were the gadgets and others at that time? And now "that time" is the last century. I think that progress is going on and we should not lag behind the requirements and opportunities of the time.

[WSW1WSW]

Quote: Dr. Bormental

Nuclear submarine - a robot? Bradberry is resting Although it would be fun ...
I generally like robots. I have .. Here in the kitchen now preparing food ... Just kidding, my wife is the most favorite robot in the world.

Hilarious comment! Take care of your "home robot"! Happy February 23!

[Indifferent]

Only a person who served on a submarine can appreciate this. Automation cannot be completely reliable. Iron may fail at any time. Therefore, a crew of 30 people is really not enough. In order to steer the boat there must be a shift. And this is at least 10 people. To leave compartments under the control of camcorders, I would beware. Poorly visible and not everything can be seen. Go yourself into the compartment - drop the control post. Making a moving watch through the compartments is possible, but tiring for a watch, and far from everything can be understood. It is possible to memorize all boat systems, but only a few can manage and repair. If the boat is in combat service 6 thousand miles from the coast, and the crew can only move the handles, and press the buttons, this is scary.
I served on a semiautomatic device. The crew of 86 people. This is not much, considering that the amers had all the crews more than a hundred people. We had a higher level of automation. What can a kid who graduated from a school and marine training center? Such a long time to learn and spend money on its maintenance. But exploiting away from the coast is difficult. There is not enough culture of exploitation, and sometimes ordinary knowledge. I was attracted because of my ability to repair completely different equipment. And navigational and radar and turbine and reactor. No one is looking at the sea who you are by profession. Any smart head is worth its weight in gold. And too complex boats cannot be reliable by definition. Too many failure probabilities come together. The crews of the same 705s prepared very seriously. and the best were recruited there, but even this did not save them from the cutter.
The mechanics did not become better during this time. At the same level, namely, it most often fails. Only electronics has become more reliable. So I personally doubt that such boats will appear in the next decade. Well, after 50 years, if there is no apocalypse, maybe they can.
The best thing to do is a robot. Then the boat is reduced in size many times. Many systems are no longer needed. And such a robot is quite capable of bringing the cobalt bonbon to some port or naval base of the adversary, or going out into the launch area and firing cruise missiles.

[pl675]

Indifferent

I'm wildly sorry, but it’s a very rumor that cuts the expression
I served on a semiautomatic device
project submarine, warhead, fleet, position, no fate to voice?
human curiosity just tears me apart, no more. there are too many mistakes for one comment.

[KakoVedi]

So the 705th project had the nickname "semiautomatic device" ... What's cutting?

[kote119]

they were always called machine guns

[KakoVedi]

And all the same, "semiautomatic devices" ... When, in practice, in Litsa there was just so they were called by the local "natives".

[pl675]

and his crew was 86 people?
you reread its text.

[Aandrewsir]

Automation and robotization are, of course. promising and necessary directions in the "defense industry". But ... There are critical situations that require non-standard and unpredictable solutions. So it's almost impossible to surpass the human brain ...

[sir_obs]

Well here is a stick about two ends. Once a boat sank at the Pacific Fleet. She was then lifted and the second time she drowned at the wall of the shipyard. The first time they gave a command to dive. Some automation is present, it’s unnecessary to grind the pieces of iron with your hands, the switch turned and it is itself. But it does not work, as it turned out the ventilation duct did not close, the automation blocked the system. But the men doubted, they said that they broke and opened the valves and kingstones by hand, and they immediately dropped that they were mistaken when the water gushed. The second time, without any automation, they did not overlook.

[Amurets]

Quote: sir_obs

Well here is a double edged sword. Once a boat sank at the Pacific Fleet.

Here I completely agree with you. On the cruiser "Senyavin" 37 people died only because of the human factor, during an explosion in the 1st tower of the main battery.
Here are the links: Shirokorad: "The cruisers that Khrushchev destroyed", there is an analysis of the explosion in the first tower. The second link: the site is military materials, the authors are different, the conclusion is one.
http://warfiles.ru/show-44117-vzryv-na-kreysere-admiral-senyavin-1978-g.html

[In100gram]

Quote: PKK

When they write about the disposal of still new submarines, I recall Gorbach and Margaret.

Traitors definitely. The boats were unique.
PS: The traitor was alone

[kote119]

they rusted at the feast for about 18 years (although the word rusted is applicable to no less)

[Boa kaa]

Good evening, colleagues. The topic is interesting, the decisions are ambiguous, but here is what I would like to say.
The Americans were forced to abandon Sivulf and go to Virginia because of the enormous cost of the boat. This will force us to do Ash, which, for all its uniqueness, costs more than rsnS pr 955. So, the submarine project with a displacement of 6-8 thousand tons is our real future. 941pr remained in the history of shipbuilding forever. There will be a new approach to new boats, based on the range of tasks assigned to them.
Why did Lira become a breakthrough in the space age? Yes, because the developers of the ship were forbidden to drag anything from previous projects to the 705.
32 people in a carriage ... Is this good or bad? (this dilemma is reminiscent of the question of 3 hairs!) When everything is good, trouble-free - yes, good. And when the hole, fire, interrupted / burned out the cable route? We can say: counterpressure, pressurization, LOH ... and other delights of the BZZ process. And if the hole is on top, the bulkheads filter water, the mechanisms have been ripped off the foundations - then who? Will the "automatic" sliding stop?
BIUS, ASP, ACS GEM and other electronic crap, 4-fold duplication - it's all good. But if there is carbon monoxide and other "chemical delights" in the respiratory system, then all the know-how is worthless: there is no one to use them. And if the chemical regeneration of air fails. Then you need to create an autonomous capsule, like on an armature, with all life support systems and ship control. Will the cpu be in the pop-up camera? Well, tp ...
But unmanned underwater vehicles to solve various problems - this is real. They are now betting on them, apparently the future is behind them, as submarine weapons in the fight against the sea enemy. But weapons are against the shore. GZO from ballistic carriers? Then goodbye to stealth. Or it will be necessary to translate it into a drifting state and leave the district so that in a couple of minutes it does not get an answer.
The rest of the technical exotic of stealth, low noise, electric movement, communications, storage space and navigation, SBU, etc. is a separate matter.
This is so, offhand, something that immediately surfaced. There are more fundamental topics for the "narrow circle of limited people"
Best regards,

[Exsubmariner]

Dear comrade, if you are not in the know, then on this project the personnel for BG-1 took their places in the compartments, being fully prepared for the BZZH!

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Exsubmariner

the personnel on the BG-1 took their places in the compartments, being fully prepared for the BBZ!

Of course not in the know! I went out for a walk and suddenly I met you, such a cool specialist!
But here memories of the divmech:
"Submarine mechanisms were constantly out of order, and their repair was extremely difficult both due to the lack of spare parts, and due to the difficulty of access to the units and instruments. The small number of the crew led to the fact that there were so few people to service the boat at sea. turned out to be impossible. "
But from KKR: "Permanent watchkeeping at individual mechanisms and devices is not provided. When Nos. 1 and 2 are ready, a periodic bypass of unattended watch compartments is carried out." The combat shift when going to sea was limited to eight people.
Well, about the BZZH. We have tore out the liner of the right gas duct of the main engine at 156 m. After 90 sec. the water was under the covers of the diesels. And she entered there "in a finely dispersed" form under a pressure of 15 atm., And the entire compartment was in fog ...

Quote: Exsubmariner

705K project - an invulnerable nuclear submarine fighter!

Yes, you, my friend, are indeed a "submariner"! apparently at the berbaz on the "cart" served! Look how dashing slogans spar!
And here is the opinion of specialists of the PLC:
In 1988. Spearfish trademark was adopted by KF Uz), capable of stably hitting Lyra. Failure of 533pr was not associated with tech. reliability, namely with the advent of NATO high-speed torpedoes, which deprived the noisy nuclear submarine of its main advantage in speed and anti-torpedo maneuver.
That is why it is written in blood in the annals of the subclause: "Stealth is the main tactical quality of the submarine!"
So, dear "submariner"!

[kote119]

if not a secret what went?

[Exsubmariner]

On the floor, apparently at headquarters.

[Exsubmariner]

All 19 years in the PC, "... from now, until now." Your data is practically not proven by anything. y-yes Spearfish never hit Lyra consistently. To declare TTD does not mean to show them in practice.

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Exsubmariner

y-yes Spearfish never hit Lyra consistently.

Hello my restless friend!
A couple of remarks to your "cues".
in 1's, "stably" can only be hit with a large number of combat use of weapons. Personally, I do not know of any cases of using this t-dy along 705 ave. It was recorded once, off the coast of GB, the use of TO according to Lyra. But God had mercy: they shied away. Confirmation (upon returning to base) was the recording of torpedo noises heading for the submarine.
in 2's,TTD is checked by * buyers * at the conclusion of the transaction. Obtained from test sites, nomograms, manuals, etc. TTD mines in / m exploration. TTD (estimated) are estimated by PLB specialists based on the results of t / firing during the BP of the enemy's forces. Well, there is also information from "closed" sources. (our man in London).
And in the end. Exsubmariner - I suppose it should be understood as a "former submariner" ... Then behave more modestly if you consider yourself a "former".
I hope the meaning is clear?

[Exsubmariner]

Have you, dear snake, been inside the 705K pr. At least once? It is interesting to know your "battle path". Or are you a parquet archangel - an Internet magazine worm? Are you in combat formation now? There are no former officers, a retired submariner is a former submariner! I am 19 years in a solid corps, not in headquarters, surprise me with your track record! I have the honor!

[Boa kaa]

Quote: Exsubmariner

You, dear serpent,

Dear Ilych! (Maybe Ilyich !?)
I hope you still have not grown to the commander!
Because, as a cap, you can only become after the academy. And you are 19 years old ... inside the PC. Worthy, but not an end in itself! (maybe you are a midshipman? and in vain did you let the dogs down on you? can you remember what the KKR is? PNES is a dummy of a wagon train, and not an ZEMC - it's to blame, the holiday was ...)
I don’t think it’s right to communicate with you in such a tone: you’re an experienced submariner. And I'm not used to smearing snot, excuse me: 43 years of service (of which 37 are on iron), so I do not consider it necessary to report. Think that I am a "tractor driver" - it will be easier for you, and it will be calmer for me. If you consider me a "staff member", then let me be a "clerk" (I obviously don't want a shaman and a secret!).
About the combat path. After the accident, the KRT was written off, but among the orders and medals I especially value "ZBZ" - it got dear ...
So, do not blame me. Sorry for the excessive sarcasm. Only do not speak with slogans anymore ... I’ve been listening to them in the Navy since 71 of the year ... really ... good!
I have the honor!
PS. Tip. (don't be afraid, free!)
Do not write on 3 post, spraying with saliva. Get ready, think, and write a libel right away! it is more effective! (Yes, and do not forget about the post-salvo maneuver ... a submariner.)

[Exsubmariner]

I knew that you were a "tractor driver" and not a nuclear-powered operator. ZEMCH only from "tractor drivers". If you are such an "old pepper", then you should remember that "KKR" is a "Serdyukovskoe" invention, I myself, when creating the "New Look of the Armed Forces", altered it for my unit and the TKR. 37 years on iron? Did you start with a cabin boy? "... part of the crew - part of the ship ..."?
PS I'm not a chest.

[Exsubmariner]

In 1988 Spearfish t-da was adopted for KF service (d = 533mm; l = 5,94m; P = 1859kg. BZO-300kg BB; V stroke = 80 knots; D stroke (mod. 1981) = 21 m at V = 000 knots), capable of stably hitting Lyra.

You wrote about stability, which is a sign of mastery!

[Exsubmariner]

You, a walking person, explain to me who is "Divmeh", what is KKR? How to poop with cancer? If you write "divmeh" are you "tractor driver"?

[dvina71]

To install the patch you need at least three people. One holds the patch, one supports the spacer, the third twists it. Of 32 people such a team can probably be assembled?
As for unmanned ones .. The properties of water are such that any attempts to remotely control a drone will make it visible. So, either this is a stupid long-range torpedo programmed for a specific target, it is absolutely autonomous. Or the same torpedo, but it works under certain conditions.

[Exsubmariner]

If you do not know, gynecologists and proctologists have a brace, on the submarine there are sliding stops, small medium and large.

[dvina71]

Is this a kind of public site? Not? .. Let's move on to the terms .. we’ll be smart.

[KakoVedi]

Without terms, you participated in the development of emergency parties (it's like three heroes to install a patch in a manual) for BZZ? Purely to understand ...

[KakoVedi]

There is still a beam ... Pine!

[kote119]

emergency timber and pine cork

[KakoVedi]

It is emergency, but not made of oak ... Although in my compartment this "log" has been painted so much for 11 years!

[Boa kaa]

Quote: kote119

emergency timber and pine cork

Kostya, of course, I apologize, as they said in Odessa, BUT!
- Cork in a bottle ... and in the Navy - "chopik"!
(and he was inserted in the ass ... with a hot end out!
- Why "hot" ... outside?
- And this, so as not to immediately pull it out!)

[kote119]

I said how it stands in the supply sheet of edema

[kote119]

the main thing is not to forget the tow pillow

[KakoVedi]

There are two "devices": a bag with a tow and a tow in a bag !!!

[Exsubmariner]

Yes, I completely forgot, the submariners put a patch, the spouse can put patches on you underneath. It would be interesting to stare as three submariners put a small sliding emphasis!

[Exsubmariner]

705K project - an invulnerable nuclear submarine fighter!

[KakoVedi]

Only the Lord with the political department is invulnerable! And sometimes they fly by ...

[Winnie76]

Quote: Exsubmariner

If you do not know, gynecologists and proctologists have a brace, on the submarine there are sliding stops, small medium and large.

Are you a great connoisseur of the terminology of gynecologists and proctologists? I suspect they have similar things somehow called in Latin ...

[Exsubmariner]

LHVR, dear.

[Zomanus]

People, did you read the article?
Through one dream of a deserted robot boat ...
The article is about a boat with a reduced crew.
That is, the crew, although small, will be present.
But from this boat, as from the carrier, it will be possible to launch small, nimble robots.

[nazgul-ishe]

Quote: PKK

When they write about the disposal of still new submarines, I recall Gorbach and Margaret.

Remember correctly, you also need to learn to correctly and accurately perform the assigned work.

[Evil 55]

Pin .. dos, by the way, are trying to launch a boat with an experimental purely female crew .. Also an interesting solution ..

[Engineer]

The information in the article from a certain "expert" is clearly invented. This is clear at least from the competence of the expert and his analysis of Lyra's shortcomings. Nobody will be engaged in such a boat now. The concept has changed completely. If earlier in the Union there was an idea of ​​creating a long-range radar detection boat (the Amphora GAK was developed for it) and for guiding such submarine fighters as Lyra to detected targets, then later this idea was abandoned in the direction of greater versatility of boats and a decrease in their nomenclature in the Navy, which , of course, led to lower costs of maintaining the Navy. So Ash was born - a powerful SAC, low acoustic signature, torpedo and missile armament - and a Shvets and a reaper and a igrets on a pipe. Therefore, no one will now build a highly specialized underwater hunter. Moreover, now Calibers are in trend.

[cedar]

They won't build today. And tomorrow it may well surface, something like "Status-6" or "Canyon" ...
Progress is progress, but God forbid that in the submarine fleet a person is replaced, an automatic machine, a robot, artificial intelligence, then some bots will digitize on the Internet ...
Machine progress due to human regression, unacceptable price!