Military Review

Inedible ... salad

63

"... and laid his brass helmet on his head, and put armor on him ..."

(The first book of the kingdoms of 17: 38)


So, of course, it’s about the helmet, and not about the salad, which was called the salad, which was derived from the French salade, and the French language, in turn, came from Italy, from the Italian celata. In German, celata was reassigned to Schaller, and in Spain celata turned into a Spanish cabacete, which later became a cabaret helmet of a completely new look. It is believed that this helmet appeared at the end of the 14th - the beginning of the 16th centuries, and it originates from the bascinet, although it is quite possible that these were simple helmets (ear liners), to which they attached a nazatelnik. By the way, it is the presence of the backstop (the longest of the Germanic samples) that makes the salad a salad, although you can add here a stiffener or “cape” on its front part. Although there are options and special infantry helmets of this type without a visor.

Inedible ... salad


Let's look at the helmets such as sallet and barbute, which are stored in museums and, above all, in the Metrapoliten Museum in New York, which has a rich collection of such helmets. And here we have the simplest helmet sallet or salad, which differs from servilera only in that it has a nazatylnik behind it. This helmet is Italian, produced in Milan in 1470 – 80. and its weight is xnumx


What is the reason for its appearance? Due to the fact that it was at this time that there was a decisive rejection of the use of chain mail as the main means of protection, which came just in the first half of the 15th century. After all, it was then that several new helmets appeared at once: bascinet - “Bundhugel or“ dog's helmet ”in the salle, sallet or salad (a characteristic name for Russian-language literature), which became especially popular with the German knights and gunsmiths.

English historians D. Edge and D. Paddock report that these helmets first appeared in Italy (where they called the selat) and even indicate the year - 1407, when it happened. Then, through France and Burgundy, they reached Germany and England by 1420, and a decade later they became popular in all the countries of Western Europe.

In the design of the salad, the gunsmiths' creative approach to the enhancement of head and face protection, without complicating the very shape of the helmet, very clearly manifested itself. Therefore, he received the shape of a hemisphere, and to observe the slits (or one large slit), and wide fields, able to divert the blows aimed at him to the sides. Well, and then the most interesting thing began: if you put on a ballet, sliding it on the back of your head, like a Corinthian helmet from Ancient Greece, then you can watch it completely free from under it. But in the battle they wore him on the face deeper, and for review they used a narrow transverse slit. At the same time, that part of the face where the nose was, was protected by a special V-shaped projection with which the tips of arrows and spears were thrown to the sides, and not down to the neck. In addition, since the helmet from the bottom was open, it was much easier to breathe in it than in a closed bascinet or a helmet that appeared later. Germanic helmets were very characteristic because of their nazatelnik, which had the form of a long elongated tail; but the French and Italian in their form were most like a bell.

About 1490, another type appeared, which was called “black salle”, which was either painted black or covered with velveteen (also black, although the color of the fabric did not play a role). The shape of the predlichnik, which protruded an acute angle, was also different from other specimens. This helmet was used by horse soldiers, the same French cavalry archers, and knights, and even the infantrymen who had armor. It is clear that the mods are covered with expensive fabrics, decorated with embroidery, and even with precious stones!

True, by the end of the 15th century, helmets of this type had already begun to vary quite strongly in the depth of landing on the head, since the infantrymen, who were deeply seated on their heads, as riders, were not required. Since the lower part of the face remained open when it was worn, it was necessary for the gunsmiths to protect it with the forearm, which covered both the chin and the neck, both at the front and rear, as it consisted of front and rear parts connected to the cuirass.


Typical German salad with visor, “tail” and forearm from Southern Germany: 1480-90 The Higgins Museum. USA.

The helmet of the Salad was popular with the infantry and among the knights. The difference was that the latter quite often (though not always) used variants with a small visor, and archers and crossbowmen used variants that left their faces open, and the salads that ordinary infantry wore often had fields that made them similar. on aisenhut - "military hats". But the salads with the fields were in the course of the knights, and the cloth-covered salads with an open face were used as a ceremonial helmet that the knights wore outside the battlefield and as such was very popular.


“Sallet lion head”: 1475 – 80 Italy. Steel, copper, gold, glass, textiles. Metropolitan Museum, New York.

So, having originated somewhere in Italy, helmets of this type gained immense popularity primarily in Germany, where in the second half of the 15th century they became something of a typical German helmet, which became a characteristic feature of gothic armor, which, in general, This is also associated with Germany. Well, and later it was Salad who became the prototype of the famous German army helmet.


Sallet with a French-Burgundian type headdress of the late 15th century It is believed to be made in Italy. Weight 1737 Metropolitan Museum, New York.

However, in addition to the Salad, which was very popular, both among the most distinguished knights and among the poorest foot soldiers, and a similar история occurred with another helmet, which also appeared in Italy and also at the end of the XIV century, namely, the Barbute helmet. It got its name from ... the beard sticking out of it, because "barba" is "beard." The reason was its design. After all, it was essentially the same "Corinthian helmet" with a T-shaped front slot, in which the beard was just visible!


Barbut of the master Bernardino da Carnago, Italy, Milan, ca.1475, Weight 2948,

Such a device facilitated breathing and visibility. Such helmets in different versions turned out to be again very comfortable, both for infantry soldiers, and for shooters - archers and crossbowmen, although they were also used by knights. For example, it is the Barbut that is equipped with 1450 Italian armor from the Art Gallery in Glasgow. Such helmets spread very widely in Venice, where crossbowmen and heavily armed Venetian infantry were also most often worn. About this in the book “The Venetian Empire. 1200 - 1670 ”, pointed D. Nicole, who wrote it in collaboration with the famous historian and artist C. Rotero. Interestingly, in Germany, barbutes were called “Italian salad” or “Italian bascinet”.


Salad bascinet with visor: 1500 – 10 Germany. Weight 2461 Metropolitan Museum, New York.

Thus, during the entire XV century. It was Italian gunsmiths who were the lawmakers of military knightly fashion. But it also happened that they themselves included in their armor parts borrowed from German masters, because their customers demanded it. In turn, the trade relations of Germany and Italy, which converged in Flanders, gave impetus to the development of their own production in Antwerp, Bruges and Brussels, from where then cheap armor in large quantities was sold to England.


“Sallet with cheeks”: 1470 – 80 Milan. Weight 2658 Metropolitan Museum, New York. Such helmets were worn mostly by foot soldiers. Crossbowmen and archers.

Here, in Holland, the armor of mixed forms became widespread, similar to those that we see today in the picture of the Dutch artist Friedrich Herlin "St. George and the Dragon" (1460), which depicts a knight in typical Italian "export" armor, but in a helmet typical Germano -Italian sample.


Friedrich Herlin. "St. George and the Dragon".
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  1. gaura
    gaura 1 March 2016 06: 34 New
    +3
    He put on a reconstruction salad. Very comfortable helmet. Although all visor helmets have a major problem - a review
    1. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 1 March 2016 10: 57 New
      +7
      With salad, such a thing, the more historic you make the shape of the dome and take it, the more convenient it is. That is, during the Middle Ages, its form was brought to perfection.
      In the first half of the article, it would be better to give more photos of samples of different types. Which are mentioned in the text.
      There are also inaccuracies like
      it was necessary to protect it with an antecedent that covered both the chin and neck, both front and back, since it consisted of front and back parts connected to the cuirass.

      1. This element of armor is called bevor.
      2. Bevor consists only of the front part, as in the second photo in the article. The back half is available only for gorget. Why is that? Because bevor is used with helmets such as salad and chapel (and its later derivatives). These helmets have developed protection for the back in the form of a tail (for a salad) or fields (for a cape). In addition, the bevor often dresses after the helmet, as it interferes with fastening the chin strap on the helmet. Fiddling with a gorget clasp while wearing a helmet is also dreary.
      1. kalibr
        1 March 2016 12: 23 New
        +5
        They were - photos of which you say EVERYTHING. But ... did not boot! Here part of the photo is rejected by the security system. And to find a replacement ... well, it’s very difficult, if not impossible. With a bevor like this: I deliberately did not give this word, so there are a lot of foreign ones, and here everything is clear from the name.
    2. ILDM1986
      ILDM1986 1 March 2016 22: 27 New
      0
      Can you tell me why the salad has a "tail"? and what is the advantage of the composite flexible "tail"?
      1. gladcu2
        gladcu2 2 March 2016 02: 31 New
        +1
        ILDM

        When chopping a blow to a helmet, the head instinctively turns away from the blow, and during this rotation a skid blade intercepts the tail of this helmet.

        I suppose so. Since the helmets of the Roman legionnaires worked similarly.
  2. parusnik
    parusnik 1 March 2016 07: 44 New
    0
    Thanks, as usual, bookmarked ...
  3. PKK
    PKK 1 March 2016 08: 14 New
    0
    And I want the fragments to be stuck in the helmet and the bullets not to miss, but to carry the weight on the neck, you need effort, then habit. Another glasses, a muzzle, a gas mask, if that.
    1. romandostalo
      romandostalo April 11 2016 20: 01 New
      0
      It has long been verified that if a helmet holds fragments and bullets, then simply the neck will not withstand the blow. Breaks down.
  4. Buzater
    Buzater 1 March 2016 08: 23 New
    +1
    Interesting article. and came up with the idea that since ancient times, much attention has been paid to the uniforms of European soldiers. comfort, safety, and beauty. and this trend is still being traced, unlike us. in cities where I go to work I always try to visit the museum of local lore, and the helmets there are either very simple, well, just very, or Arab and Iranian. and it turns out that in terms of armaments we lagged behind and focused not on uniforms and armaments, but on human qualities - strength, for example.
    1. abrakadabre
      abrakadabre 1 March 2016 11: 00 New
      +5
      It `s naturally. Because the owners of uncomfortable and uncomfortable armor quickly weeded out on the battlefield. And in the most radical way - to the grave.
    2. 97110
      97110 1 March 2016 14: 38 New
      0
      Quote: Buzater
      that in terms of armaments we lagged behind and focused not on uniforms and armaments, but on human qualities - to talk for example.
      Your text has somewhat distorted - do not judge strictly. I’m talking about my native - being a battalion Komsomol commander, and at the next vocation - a battalion party organizer. Partisan, ess.
    3. gladcu2
      gladcu2 2 March 2016 02: 35 New
      0
      Buzater.

      With changes in technology, weapons changed. When weapons changed, battle tactics and, accordingly, passive defense changed. Each strange element of equipment was of practical importance and only for the period of its time.
      1. Bashibuzuk
        Bashibuzuk 29 November 2016 16: 48 New
        0
        For Buzater ....
        it seems to me that the point here is not so much in the "weeding out" of the armor because of its suitability or convenience on the battlefield, but because these "..beautiful, eco-friendly, practical and convenient .." ...
        To make long, difficult and expensive. Ordinary CHAPEL is much cheaper and more technologically advanced, and protection provides no worse. For if they lit up on the cumpole with one and a half kilogram piece of iron (a sword), then the fighter leaves the battle for a long time. If not forever. And the shape of the helmet here is the tenth thing - even with rolling hit. The cervical vertebrae of a person do not like this.
        Therefore, there are cuffs. And there is damage.
        And such beautiful rarities have no damage. Not because they are so powerful. And because - PARADE.
        And I’ll die, but I won’t believe that the CORINFISH helmets had a DOUBLE history - in the times of Ancient Greece (Corinthian) and in the times of medieval Italy. It seems like we are doing replicas right now - and judging by the history of the Corinthian helmet a replica was made before the original! The Corinthian helmets of Italy are much more elaborate than the Corinthian helmets of Greece. Someone was clearly replicating. Who?
  5. Riv
    Riv 1 March 2016 08: 38 New
    0
    The knight’s interesting stirrups in the last illustration: solid, like slippers. In appearance, not even leather, but cloth.
    1. kalibr
      1 March 2016 12: 24 New
      0
      These are his socks, not stirrups. Stirrups are ordinary trapezoidal gilded.
      1. Riv
        Riv 1 March 2016 14: 52 New
        0
        That is, on the armor from above - also socks ??? It will be better than Superman’s underpants ... :)
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. saygon66
          saygon66 1 March 2016 17: 58 New
          +1
          - These are the slippers, it seems ...
          1. saygon66
            saygon66 1 March 2016 18: 14 New
            0
            - And even such ... Stunned!
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. kashtak
              kashtak 1 March 2016 18: 26 New
              0
              I wonder if you can use weapons like that?
              1. Riv
                Riv 1 March 2016 23: 24 New
                0
                Of course. Chuck Norris still walks in these.
            3. kalibr
              1 March 2016 18: 28 New
              0
              Yes, there could be cloth and metal, but covered with fabric. What for? And FIG knows them!
              1. saygon66
                saygon66 1 March 2016 19: 12 New
                +1
                - In order not to make noise when you beat cockroaches in the kitchen ... smile
              2. The comment was deleted.
            4. brn521
              brn521 2 March 2016 10: 32 New
              0
              Quote: saygon66
              - And even such ... Stunned!

              It is usually written that such shoes were used to ensure that the knight’s foot was more securely kept in stirrups while he was in the saddle.
              What can you think about this. For example, tactics involving ramming. A knight accelerates, breaks a heavy spear about someone or something. The reference point in this case, as far as I know, is the saddle. The inertial load is serious, stirrups may well get off your feet. Next, the knight will urgently need to move on to the next point of combat - switch to a sword / ax / mace. Working with them requires reliable support on stirrups. Therefore, the loss of stirrups even for a short time is very undesirable.
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. gladcu2
            gladcu2 2 March 2016 02: 39 New
            0
            Saygon66

            Saigon, explain. Were these sneakers practical or was it a fashion statement?

            Modern fashion in Europe has not so long ago offered, something the same idiotic.
            1. saygon66
              saygon66 2 March 2016 19: 41 New
              0
              - In general, medieval shoes were quite practical and light - rather leather stockings (chuvyaki, moccasins) than shoes ... To "knead the dirt" on the city streets, clogs were worn over
              1. saygon66
                saygon66 2 March 2016 19: 42 New
                0
                - In the images of those years there are no heavy shoes at all ...
                1. saygon66
                  saygon66 2 March 2016 19: 46 New
                  0
                  -But fashion and mods, as you know, do not know the measures - the socks of the shoes were lengthened to the point that they were tied to the ankle with a special cord. So long similar plate sabatons are rather a tribute to fashion.
                  1. brn521
                    brn521 3 March 2016 10: 47 New
                    0
                    Quote: saygon66
                    Fashion and mods, as you know, don’t know the measures - the socks of the shoes lengthened to the point that they were tied to the ankle with a special lace. So long similar plate sabatons are rather a tribute to fashion.

                    A very strange assumption. It’s the same as attaching high heels to women’s boots. The soldiers will not be able to fight normally or just move around, but what can you do, it’s not a pity for fashion and give life :). If the knights were really followers of fashion, they would bend their noses up to have some fun on occasion: when falling, accent to lay their head on the ground and then drag after the horse.
                    1. Aljavad
                      Aljavad 6 March 2016 01: 58 New
                      0
                      brn521 RU March 3, 2016 10:47 ↑
                      Quote: saygon66
                      Fashion and mods, as you know, don’t know the measures - the socks of the shoes lengthened to the point that they were tied to the ankle with a special lace. So long similar plate sabatons are rather a tribute to fashion.
                      A very strange assumption. It’s the same as attaching high heels to women’s boots. The soldiers will not be able to fight normally or just move around, but what can you do, it’s not a pity for fashion and give life :). If the knights were really followers of fashion, they would bend their noses up to have some fun on occasion: when falling, accent to lay their head on the ground and then drag after the horse.


                      1984 You held the hands of the Kirzach on 8 cm heels. Dembelsky. Homemade. Terribly uncomfortable. and not beautiful. But the owner was terribly proud of them.
              2. brn521
                brn521 3 March 2016 10: 18 New
                0
                Quote: saygon66
                To "knead the dirt" on the city streets, clogs were put on top

                A very strange illustration. The fact that it is clearly expensive and completely impractical. It’s only suitable to somehow stumble from the carriage to the front door and back.
                As for the mass medieval shoes, here the palm is divided between two options. 1. Generally without shoes. When the weather allowed, we went barefoot. Shoes cost money; quality shoes cost a lot of money. With constant wear, the shoes wear out, money flies away. 2. Wooden shoes. Not the one in the illustration, but something like wooden galoshes, slippers, sandals on wooden soles. The most popular shoes, a symbol of the poor. Until now, in some European countries, wooden shoes are sold as souvenirs as part of the national costume.
  6. brn521
    brn521 1 March 2016 10: 42 New
    +1
    In German, celata changed to Schaller, and in Spain celata became Spanish cabacete

    It has always seemed strange to me like the twists of researchers. If they have any serious reasons, then it would not hurt to devote more time to the methodology instead of the pointless cramming of dates and events.
  7. saygon66
    saygon66 1 March 2016 12: 17 New
    +1
    - The most interesting thing is that the configuration of modern helmets strive for the one mentioned in the article, only from modern materials ...
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. saygon66
      saygon66 1 March 2016 14: 04 New
      +4
      - Salad? ... Bascinet?
      - Oh, these "minus" ...
  8. Taoist
    Taoist 1 March 2016 13: 52 New
    +3
    I read the next article about tank helmets ...
    Salad?
  9. Jääkorppi
    Jääkorppi 1 March 2016 14: 05 New
    +1
    I support! The peasants in the war is meat! The dust of the earth swept to war! In the 14th century, expeditionary Danish troops landed on Gotland (the film was based on Viasat History). The militia of the inhabitants of the island, peasants and part of the townspeople prepared for the meeting and had a numerical superiority. However, the battle turned into a massacre. So the prince's squad is a professional army and mainly from the 10th century cavalry! This is the trouble, since during the invasion of the Tatar-Mongols it was impossible to set up a commensurate army in size!
    1. Riv
      Riv 1 March 2016 15: 25 New
      0
      And how did Dmitry Donskoy Mamaia shatter it? After all, he could not gather a commensurate army in numbers - but he managed to. Probably a strong shaman was a Russian prince ...
      1. kalibr
        1 March 2016 18: 35 New
        +1
        And who told you that there weren’t only 10.000 Russians? And the Tatars of Mamai are not so much. In Soviet times, they wrote that Mamai only recruited Genoese spearmen 1000. And then, for example, it turned out the entire garrison of the Kafa fortress consisted of 26 people! Are they all hired? City deprived of troops? Where 1000 comes from ...
        1. gladcu2
          gladcu2 2 March 2016 03: 01 New
          0
          kalibr

          These spearmen could not participate in the battle. They say that they did not have time. Mom, on the Kulikovo field I got into a very difficult alteration. He attacked immediately, without reconnaissance (presumably). Since his main tactics, he could not realize the coverage of the enemy with the flank by mounted archers. The battle was in the area where the flanks of the enemy were covered by forest. And the archers fell on the well-armored cavalry, which thwarted them. Such conclusions are made in connection with the location of the Battle of Kulikovo.
    2. kashtak
      kashtak 1 March 2016 18: 20 New
      -1
      Quote: JääKorppi
      The peasants in the war is meat!

      at the battle of Cresci, the yeomen with bows were sent to knight meat. in addition to squads, there were detachments of merchants and allies. and a peasant if he could take a wolf on a brush or a bear on a horn ... not quite a lubricant for a sword. much depends on the command. or not?
      1. kalibr
        1 March 2016 18: 39 New
        +2
        The infantry played its role, of course, but ... very specific. So it is necessary to consider each specific case. Eisenstein’s film, where peasants beat knights with shafts in white shirts - not a source!
      2. Riv
        Riv 2 March 2016 18: 11 New
        -1
        It is from the commander!

        Imagine the situation: you are a simple Russian from near Kaluga, whom Dmitry Moskovsky's recruiters persuaded to join the army. Well, it's time to fight and you have a legitimate question: who commands you? The boyars and their close associates stand on the shelves in the back line. You are being driven in the front line. Will you go under the arrows? Oh, hardly ... And then Dmitry personally goes to the crowd of militias and says: "I'll lead you!" He gets off his horse and stomps on foot in front of you in the first row. For this - they will go and will fight for him and cover him in battle.

        Now it’s clear why Dmitry got up in the front regiment? There was no one else.
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. Kombrig
      Kombrig 1 March 2016 21: 26 New
      +1
      Quote: JääKorppi
      I support! The peasants in the war is meat!



      I fundamentally disagree, at least during the period of princely strife, the peasants almost did not suffer from the "showdown" of the princes, and practically never took part in them, with very rare exceptions, so it is incorrect to call them cannon fodder ...
  10. mishastich
    mishastich 1 March 2016 15: 37 New
    0
    Eka interesting discussion from the helmets is gone.

    Here is the army of Alexander Nevsky. (Piece) The militia (urban) is fully armored.
    1. kalibr
      1 March 2016 18: 36 New
      +1
      And where did he get the money for this? The armor of those times is a minimum of 15 horses and 30 cows. And does the townsman need this? That's why the prince is with the squad!
      1. saygon66
        saygon66 1 March 2016 19: 16 New
        0
        - The same Japanese peasants famously looted on the fields of honor ...
        1. kalibr
          1 March 2016 21: 06 New
          +1
          Yes, looting. But then all this was sold to gunsmiths, and they again to samurai. They themselves could not use it. Just because the wrong muscle groups were developed. They could hoe a rice field for hours with a hoe, but they could not wave a sword. War is, above all, training!
          1. saygon66
            saygon66 1 March 2016 21: 18 New
            0
            - Westbrook and Ratti write something different in their book ... Before Tokugawa, anyone could learn bujutsu ... And the ashigaru followed the code of honor more zealously than some samurai ...
            - We still have enough enthusiasts of military affairs, and even then ...
          2. gladcu2
            gladcu2 2 March 2016 03: 34 New
            0
            kalibr

            To be a warrior, preparation time is not directly related to obtaining food. A resource is needed, which was just what the peasants gave. Therefore, well-trained soldiers were only in the prince's squad. Naturally physically selective, since there is no sense in learning to deal with females.
            1. cth; fyn
              cth; fyn 2 March 2016 09: 56 New
              0
              Watching what time, I watched the film seven samurai at 365tv, and then there was a discussion of this film by experts, so they said that until a certain time there was no clear line between the samurai and the rich peasants (up to the 16th century inclusive). In particular, I refer to the candidate of historical sciences Aleksey Gorbylev, a specialist in the history of martial arts and Alexander Meshcheryakov, a doctor of historical sciences, a specialist in Japanese history, as well as Boris Malyshev, a doctor of historical sciences, a specialist in spiritual culture of Japan, I think these people give a qualified assessment of what There was almost no separation between the samurai and the wealthy peasant in the 16th century, and it was introduced only by Toyotomi Hideyoshi
      2. The comment was deleted.
  11. Riv
    Riv 2 March 2016 09: 03 New
    0
    Could we continue the patriotic srach that was so successfully begun?

    http://www.xlegio.ru/ancient-armies/medieval-warfare/on-strength-of-the-dmitry-d

    onskoy-troops-at-the-kulikovo-field /

    The article estimates the number of Russian troops participating in the Battle of Kulikovo at 5-6 thousand soldiers. No more. Well, like the battlefield itself was too small and would simply not fit in anymore. Have you read it? Here, some people evaluate the number of articles of people as in the zone. It’s ridiculous for us, brethren, to begin a detailed analysis of this ...

    Firstly: the author is not well-versed in tactics. Cavalry strength in maneuver. The same Tatars more than once, and not two demonstrated this in practice. Their tumens scattered around the theater of operations in almost a few hundred, robbed, burned, and simultaneously scouted the area. This is generally the most important thing in the war - intelligence. And at the right moment, having determined the centers of resistance, Tumen gathered together and struck. For some reason, the Russians did exactly the opposite: neither intelligence, nor maneuver, nor attempts to enter the enemy’s supply line.

    Secondly: Mamai behaves in the same way, that is, is stupid. There is no intelligence, no maneuver, the Tatars stupidly rod along the Ryazan road. In fact, this behavior is characteristic of infantry armies.
    Stop! Why Tatars? In the army of Mamaev, there are jars, Alans (Caucasus), Polovtsy, Pechenegs (Kuban), brodniks, Cherkasy, hipsters (Black Sea) ... But where are the Tatars ??? It seems that Mamaya did not recruit his army in the ulus, but from the pine forest, somewhere in the Caucasus. Confused, it happens.

    Thirdly: for 600 years, the relief on the Kulikovo field has changed more than once or twice. Nepryadva changed the channel, the forest was cut down and grew again. Arable land was leveled, abandoned and plowed up again. The author's reasoning on this topic is naive. But even if he is absolutely right, there is a nuance: the "clearing" described by him for the collision of cavalry is simply inconvenient.
    And it’s convenient just for infantry combat. The rear of the Russians is covered by a river, the flanks are covered by a forest. Dmitry and Mamai either collectively shifted their minds, or ... does the infantry play a significant role in the armies? And indeed it is. If you estimate the speed of both armies - just 20-30 kilometers a day will work. The cavalry moves a little faster.

    And most importantly: according to the author, Russia simply could not put up a large army. Such matters: I could not ... We smile and will not comment on this deep thought.
  12. brn521
    brn521 2 March 2016 11: 08 New
    0
    Quote: Riv
    Cavalry strength in maneuver.

    Maneuver may be limited. Brody, bridges, swamps, steppe and forest-steppe. Fortified areas, even simple clearing houses. Also the defense of communications and strategic points related to industry and the economy. They are more convenient and cheaper to keep infantry. It is not profitable to use cavalry for this - it is much easier to train pikemen than cuirassiers. In addition, horses also make up a considerable expendable part. Regardless of whether hostilities are being fought or not, they cannot be preserved in warehouses, like equipment. You will have to train, serve and feed constantly.
    In general, yes, initially the foot army on the Kulikovo field looks strange. It is possible to drag the infantry into such a distance with only one purpose - to strengthen the garrisons in strategically important points. In open spaces, the infantry cannot even be guarded by the convoy; it inevitably stretches in motion and becomes vulnerable to cavalry. The infantry moves very slowly, therefore, it can be used only for solving "unhurried" tasks. For example, for organizing the siege of aliens and lifting the siege from their cities and other fortified points.
    1. Riv
      Riv 2 March 2016 11: 53 New
      0
      Not in medieval tactics. Only the same cavalry could seriously limit the cavalry maneuver. Plus, do not forget: Mamaia has allies hanging nearby, Oleg and Olgerd. What prevented you from connecting to them? If Olgerd, according to various estimates, also had 15-30 thousand troops, then it turns out that, united, they would achieve an overwhelming numerical advantage over the Russians. Yes, and Oleg was not completely homeless ... In such circumstances, any commander would take an advantageous position and wait. What does a week or two decide? Nothing if you have an army on horseback.

      But if on foot - just valuable every day. The infantryman does not feed himself by robbery, moves slowly (though this is a matter of discipline and training), stretches on the march, and eats every day.
  13. brn521
    brn521 2 March 2016 16: 29 New
    0
    Quote: Riv
    Only the same cavalry could seriously limit the cavalry maneuver.

    Any natural barrier. For example, in the case of a river without bridges or explored fords, you will have to wait until the train with tools and materials for guiding the crossing is pulled up. In wars, at least armor and weapons that get wet will severely damage. Another provision for himself and his horses, if he gets wet, he will begin to rot. Horses, of course, can eat grass, hay and even straw, but without oats they lose much in condition, they have less strength, speed and endurance.
    1. Riv
      Riv 2 March 2016 17: 52 New
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      It’s strange ... The rivers near Batu almost did not limit maneuver (for example, the Tatars passed through Europe, and there the rivers are common), the forests too, and indeed the Tatars broke into Northern Russia for the first time in winter. That is, they were not even prevented by even snow and frost. But Mamayu natural obstacles for some reason reduced maneuverability ...
      She crushed to see the Tatars in two hundred years. Previously, the heroes! Russian they were one place. Well, Batu is certainly a strong shaman. :)

      Or are we still not going to look for magical ways, but simply agree that each warrior had a horse in Batu (in a good sense), and more than one, and Mamai’s army was mostly on foot?
  14. karbine
    karbine 3 March 2016 00: 21 New
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    Barbut of the master Bernardino da Carnago, Italy, Milan, ca.1475, Weight 2948,

    I wonder where to get such a neck under it? Is this a giraffe helmet?
  15. Warrior2015
    Warrior2015 4 March 2016 23: 31 New
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    Quote: Riv
    Before the spread of serfdom, peasants in Russia were special ... Take at least Novgorod's ushkuniki. After all, they were not of the noblest, but held the entire Volga and Kama.
    They were just from the "young sons of the boyars" and from the trade and craft class, from the peasants, if anyone was not enough. By the way, they almost surpassed the squad in terms of equipment.

    Quote: brn521
    A very strange illustration. The fact that it is clearly expensive and completely impractical. It’s only suitable to somehow stumble from the carriage to the front door and back.

    Actually, in Japan all this life this type of shoes is traditional. So in order not to knead the dirt, but to step above it and remove it easily at the entrance to the carriage or to the house.

    Quote: Riv
    You want to say that there were no militias in the army of Dmitry Donskoy? There, only the advanced regiment, according to our historians, could have up to 10.000 people, and they put all the loose
    We will not talk about the number, this is the place of another article. Just one fact from the annals - St. Prince Dmitry handed over his ceremonial armament to Mikhail Brenk, and in the SUCCESSES of a SIMPLE WARRIOR he stood in the FIRST LINE of the advanced (or, more likely, large) regiment. And for 3 hours of battle, the prince survived.

    Quote: Riv
    Indeed, almost none of the princes of other Russian cities came, and the princes were in Russia - like dogs uncut. Not supported.
    You are wrong. Strong. Just on Kulikovo field in 1380 a lot came from. But during the invasion of Tokhtamysh in 1382, just almost no one supported it - that’s why they didn’t give a field battle and even lost Moscow ...

    Quote: kalibr
    And then, for example, it turned out the entire garrison of the Kafa fortress consisted of 26 people!
    Vyacheslav, do not juggle, these are only officers. The forces of the permanent garrison of one Kafa (and there were several more fortresses, as you know) in different periods from 300 to 900 people. But, of course, Mamai did not have any "Genoese". In contrast, by the way, from the Genoese weapons, a popular export product that Mamai could easily buy, and dress and distribute to local mercenaries - from the same Northern Caucasus.
  16. Djimdi
    Djimdi 19 August 2016 21: 33 New
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    I enjoyed reading the article and comments!