Military Review

FATCA factor. How can American law relate to any Russian

271
FATCA factor. How can American law relate to any Russian



Recently, public attention was attracted by a remarkable dialogue that took place between the head of state and the president of Sberbank - more precisely, a small fragment of this dialogue. V.V. Putin strictly asked G.O. Gref, why the institution entrusted to his care does not work in the Crimea. Looking down, German Oskarovich complained that commercial activity in the newly acquired territories threatens Sberbank with losses due to international sanctions. Earlier, in an interview with German journalists, Mr. Gref stated even more definitely that from the point of view of the global financial system, Crimea is Ukrainian territory and there is nothing for the Russian bank to do. The same thoughts were voiced by Mr. Gref at the annual meeting of Sberbank shareholders in May. From which it follows that the Constitution of the Russian Federation on the State Sberbank does not apply.

Probably, V.V. Putin knew about this point of view and wanted to hear it first hand. The president of the country was clearly displeased by the heard, but this episode is unlikely to somehow affect the status of German Oskarovich. Unfortunately, it is impossible not to recognize in the words of the head of Sberbank a fair share of homey and savvy truth. The person responsible for the national piggy bank does not have the right for the sake of 2-x regions, where the bank is not present, to risk stable work in 89-ti subjects of the Federation, where he has millions of customers and depositors.

As for state policy and national interests in the financial sphere, is it worth it to reproach Mr. Gref with their cynical skimming, since this same policy often conflicts with these very interests. A vivid illustration of what is история accession of the Russian Federation to the American FATCA protocol.

“Washington Uncle Sam has completely let loose”


Five years ago, the United States passed the Tax Discipline Policy on Foreign Accounts - the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act, or FATCA for short. According to this legal act, foreign financial institutions are required to automatically provide information about their US customers to the Internal Revenue Service. According to the text of FATCA, credit organizations around the world, with 31 in March 2015, are obliged to inform the IRS about the accounts of US residents so that they cannot evade the sacred duty of the taxpayer.

Well, what is the audacity - to extend the action of national law to the entire planet! Russia responded to the infamous encroachments of overseas "partners" properly. The Russian Ministry of Foreign Affairs, in response to a request from the Association of Russian Banks, issued a letter in which it considered inadmissible "the conclusion by Russian banking institutions of any direct agreements with the US Internal Revenue Service regarding compliance with the requirements of the FATCA law." The Ministry of Finance of Russia in a letter from 24.04.2012 No. 03-08-07 noted that the mutual exchange of information with the American side should be built strictly within the framework of the already existing Agreement between 17 and June 1992 on avoiding double taxation, and changing Russian legislation to implement FATCA requirements are completely excluded.

But "never say never." Non-participation in FATCA for Russian banks threatened to result in risks associated with possible sanctions by the IRS and foreign financial institutions.


In particular, the compulsory withdrawal of 30% of the amount of international bank transfers, while the non-aligned themselves risked earning in the international community the reputation of potentially risky counterparties.

Not to mention the fact that the global banking system is critically dependent on the US Federal Reserve Service and overseas financial infrastructure. Almost all interbank transactions go through correspondent accounts in US banks, which the IRS can easily block if they wish. Familiar scheme: will not buy lottery tickets - turn off the gas.

Let everyone in - do not let anyone out


It is not surprising that the initial reaction of the Russian authorities regarding the prospects for joining FATCA in the form of a sovereign repentance was replaced by a proud silence, and then by feverish activities designed to legitimize the subordination of the Russian banking system to the American tax department.

Well, they weren't like that. In 2014, the United States fined French bank BNP Paribas $ 8,9 billion for violating sanctions against Iran, Sudan and Syria. And although BNP Paribas did not violate any French laws, the bank's management had to pay a huge fine, and in addition to dismiss 13 top managers with a "wolf ticket". Switzerland, whose financial system flourished thanks to strict banking secrecy, tried to balk. But after the Americans imposed multimillion-dollar fines on the largest Swiss banks, forcing the oldest of them, Wegelin & Co, to close, the authorities of the alpine republic had to yield.

Interestingly, the sensational story of the arrest of FIFA officials in Switzerland was made possible thanks to the information obtained in the framework of the FATCA requirements.


Then the Russian authorities pointed to the inadmissibility of expanding the jurisdiction of US justice to other countries. Indeed, not one of the arrested sports functionaries was a US citizen, their alleged crimes did not occur in the territory of America, however, the fact that the calculations for suspicious transactions were made in dollars was enough to initiate the case and arrest. But outraged by the American arbitrariness, it would be worth remembering about his own consent to control over the domestic financial system from the US departments. And whether this consent was accompanied by an enthusiastic gleam in the eyes or a gnashing of teeth was not the point.

It is important that in June 2014 a law was passed No. 173-ФЗ “On peculiarities of conducting financial transactions with foreign citizens and legal entities and amending certain legislative acts of the Russian Federation”, allowing Russian banks to transfer data on American taxpayers to the IRS. It is noteworthy that the law was signed by the president on the same day when it was approved by the Federation Council. Enviable efficiency, if not rush. For example, Italy joined FATCA only in July of this year. After the law was passed, the head of Rosfinmonitoring, Yury Chikhanchin, noted that FATCA can be considered as a sanction tool. Does it mean that Russia essentially joined the sanctions against itself? It turns out that way.

But is it worth “putting pressure on the principle”, focusing on the problem of banking structures and their American clients? Perhaps it is not worth it, if the problem was actually of a narrow sectoral nature. But joining FATCA opened Pandora’s box, from which a string of misfortunes climbed, the consequences of which are difficult to predict. Let's start in order. Today, more than 90% of Russian banking organizations have joined FATCA, having established contact with the American tax authorities. Meanwhile, despite the above risks, many of them - primarily from the medium and small ones - are ready to refuse to cooperate with the IRS, because they have to incur multimillion-dollar costs. However, Russian law does not provide for such a possibility.

Fearing penalties, Russian banks in turn began demanding structures from related sectors - microfinance organizations, non-state pension funds, brokers, insurance companies - to join FATCA, threatening more tight control or even closing accounts. According to expert estimates, 20-30% of the client base of banks can be recognized as non-aligned financial institutions, for the first time they will have to report on them in March 2016.

The domino effect

Further more. In May of this year, some Sberbank clients began receiving letters with a proposal to report on foreign citizenship, residence permit or tax residency status in other countries. According to RBC news agency, a questionnaire was attached to the letter, which must be submitted to the bank by June 25. According to the Guberniya portal, recently Khabarovsk residents when applying to credit institutions (MTS Bank, Asian-Pacific Bank, Promsvyazbank, Far Eastern Bank) have been asked about ties with the United States. In particular, banks request information on the availability of citizenship or residence permit in foreign countries, a mobile phone number registered in the United States, as well as registration address in the United States, if any, and data on remittances to accounts in US banks. Those who do not want to answer may be denied service.

An incredible (until recently) story happened to the correspondent of the St. Petersburg edition of "812". In the municipal center, where she came for a so-called children's or preschool card, for which the city government charges budget funds for the purchase of children's things, the woman was asked to fill out a questionnaire regarding her possible relationship with the United States. It turned out that this is an initiative of the Bank St. Petersburg, which issued the card. While the objector is not threatened. But the first step is the hardest. In the northern capital, a similar profile has recently been offered to car owners who issue discount cards to LUKoil gas stations. Petersburgers, who are going to buy an apartment and make a deal through the bank, began to face similar requirements.

But how so? Indeed, the law number 173 explicitly states that neither the citizens of the Russian Federation can collect or transfer information, unless they do not have dual citizenship or a residence permit in another state, nor Russian legal entities, except for those with more than 10% controlled by non-residents. That's right. However, a little higher there is a fad according to which, “financial market organizations take reasonable (how? - MZ) and available under the circumstances (which ones? - MZ) measures to identify among those who have concluded (concluded ) with the organization of the financial market a contract providing for the provision of financial services (hereinafter referred to as the client), persons to whom the foreign state legislation on taxation of foreign accounts applies ... ”

That is, on the one hand, the law does not apply to a Russian citizen, but on the other, how to find out: how chemically pure this citizen is, whether it contains extraneous suspicious impurities.

A dilemma like that put by Ostap Bender in front of his players: to take the money, but not to beat. Banks do not suffer from the problem of choice and take “measures” based on their specific ideas about good and evil. And since potentially any resident of Russia who came into the view of a bank can wear a wide leg or handbag in addition to a Russian passport, suppose a green card or a wad of dollars means that it is of obvious interest to Uncle Sam. So, in addition to the hypothetical need to prove that you are not a camel, every Russian should be prepared to convincingly prove that he does not owe the US budget anything. The situation is similar with enterprises and companies. Such a kind of analogue of the former "was not, was not, did not participate."

Predict the development of events is difficult.

Americans, for example, have no difficulty finding any reason to use the provisions of Law No. 173 to get information about any Russian enterprise and, if they wish, to block oxygen, because the banks through which it conducts its operations are controlled from overseas.


Only before such a state of affairs existed de facto, and now it is still confirmed de jure. Should we expect from our arch-friends these or similar dirty tricks? Who knows them. What is clear is that it is pointless to admonish or frighten our bankers: they serve their masters. The Russian authorities are left to console themselves with lines of a ballad from the well-known story of AK. Tolstoy:

Do not frown, mistress,
Look more fun:
You yourself let in
Merry guests!
Author:
Originator:
http://www.stoletie.ru/rossiya_i_mir/faktor_fatca_535.htm
271 comment
Information
Dear reader, to leave comments on the publication, you must to register.

I have an account? Sign in

  1. Pokast
    Pokast 18 February 2016 21: 44
    42
    Hmm. And there’s nothing to say)
    1. Ami du peuple
      Ami du peuple 18 February 2016 22: 01
      105
      Quote: Pokast
      Hmm. And there’s nothing to say)

      And I have something. It is necessary to abandon the dominance of the dollar in our economy - let the yuan be, at least. Switch to alternative SWIFT payment systems. To oblige Russian enterprises to keep money only in our banks. To solve the problem, with whom it is not clear who is working for, the CBR Yes, much more needs to be done ..
      Otherwise, American bankers will not only bring down our financial system, but also our sovereignty. What the United States does not risk implementing by force, it is fully within its power to implement financially.
      Is it possible? Everything is possible that contradicts the laws of physics. Only with the current government the likelihood of such a development of events tends to zero.
      1. Michael67
        Michael67 18 February 2016 22: 06
        72
        It is necessary to remove the Central Bank of the Russian Federation from submission to the Federal Reserve. How? Specialists know, the leadership of the country also knows. The question is when this will happen. This is what we will learn about last.
        1. Erg
          Erg 18 February 2016 23: 49
          -20 qualifying.
          This is called the "iron curtain". Ready? Then let's go soldier
          1. lopvlad
            lopvlad 19 February 2016 00: 39
            80
            Quote: Erg
            It's called the "iron curtain"


            not guessed. This is called the national financial system of the state.
            The citizens of the USSR lived behind the "iron curtain" and thought that behind this curtain the West was waiting to somehow embrace us (Gorbachev and Co. assured us.
            In the 90s we pulled back the "iron curtain" and behind it a concrete wall built by the West.
            Yes, such a one in front of which the Great China looks like a picket fence and still this western wall filters everything that reaches an ordinary American.
            1. NordUral
              NordUral 19 February 2016 01: 05
              12
              Add traps and other disguised tricks to the wall.
              1. FlyEngine
                FlyEngine 20 February 2016 17: 07
                +4
                The Russian Central Bank is the most dangerous and cunning enemy of Russia. It must be reformed completely for normal work - for the people, not for the bankers.
            2. Erg
              Erg 28 February 2016 23: 01
              0
              You please our American "partners" with your naivety. There is no national financial system. There is financial servility and complete dependence on the Fed. Dream less - everything is easier ... yes
          2. NordUral
            NordUral 19 February 2016 01: 04
            +3
            Do not be intimidated by what is optional.
          3. 33 Watcher
            33 Watcher 19 February 2016 03: 36
            +1
            Quote: Erg
            This is called the "iron curtain". Ready? Then let's go soldier

            And specifically for you, something to change?
          4. prostorabochiy
            prostorabochiy 19 February 2016 04: 20
            14
            When there was an iron curtain, the floor of the world was on this side of it, and the floor of the world was on that side.
            And now the Americans are in control of the whole world, including us.
          5. CTEPX
            CTEPX 19 February 2016 09: 04
            +1
            Quote: Erg
            This is called the "iron curtain".

            While this is preparation for the Iron Curtain, in another way - the patriotic education of the "elites", in another way - the identification of agents of influence)).
          6. nemez
            nemez 19 February 2016 14: 26
            10
            Those. Do you want to say that Stalin was a fool when he refused to sign the BVD (Bretton Woods), which enslaved half the world at the time of signing!? Or was he still right and the USSR switched from a card system to money circulation in 1947, and England, which signed them in 1953, I will explain until 1953 that there was a card system in England for products. So nice people - do not carry nonsense, it would be better if the iron curtain would not rise. Although so many rats crawled out right away, which can also be attributed to pluses.
          7. Belogor
            Belogor 19 February 2016 18: 00
            0
            Chased, I'm with you soldier
          8. goncharov.62
            goncharov.62 20 February 2016 17: 04
            +1
            This is called the "iron curtain". Ready? Then let's go "-I lived. And the collapse of the system is not tied to this. But, apparently, you, the litter of a female rabid dog, are ready to sell for a liver at the first nimble ... Guess ?!
          9. Bibliographer
            Bibliographer 21 February 2016 00: 23
            +2
            You just forgot that the Iron Curtain was built just in the West and against the Soviet Union! And from our side there were only retaliatory measures! At a Paris Peace Conference in 1919, French Prime Minister Georges Clemenceau said: “We want to place an iron curtain around Bolshevism that will prevent it from destroying civilized Europe.”
            The Iron Curtain is a political cliché that was actively introduced by W. Churchill on 5 on March 1946 in his Fulton speech, which is considered a signal for the beginning of the Cold War. It designated the information, political and border barrier that isolates the USSR and other socialist countries from the capitalist countries of the West.
            https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%96%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%B7%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%
            D0%B7%D0%B0%D0%BD%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%B5%D1%81
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Wheel
          Wheel 19 February 2016 02: 56
          +4
          Quote: Michael67
          The question is when this will happen.

          Under the current and similar authorities - never.
          1. CTEPX
            CTEPX 19 February 2016 09: 17
            0
            Quote: Wheel
            when it will happen.
            Under the current and similar authorities - never.

            Is not a fact)). This will happen in two ways: either by a civil war, or by a world war.
            Both can happen "under the current and similar authorities."
        4. Al_oriso
          Al_oriso 19 February 2016 05: 56
          +8
          Quote: Michael67
          It is necessary to remove the Central Bank of the Russian Federation from submission to the Federal Reserve. How? Specialists know, the leadership of the country also knows. The question is when this will happen. This is what we will learn about last.

          It is necessary to nationalize the Central Bank. And then it turns out strange that the state is Russian, and HIS CENTRAL BANK is AMERICAN. It’s time for our government to stop playing the role of errand boys at the US Federal Reserve.
          1. Al1977
            Al1977 19 February 2016 09: 42
            0
            Quote: Al_oriso
            It’s time for our government to stop playing the role of errand boys at the US Federal Reserve.

            Something I have never heard such questions to Putin. And Putin himself did not voice such ideas. He, as you think, "does not fumble at all" what is going on? Do you know better on the couch?
        5. The comment was deleted.
      2. Pilat2009
        Pilat2009 18 February 2016 22: 12
        50
        Quote: Ami du peuple
        And I have something. It is necessary to abandon the dominance of the dollar in our economy.

        That's when we will produce everything ourselves, then we can refuse
        But while it’s utopia, no one will sell drugs for rubles, and much more. In general, there should be one bank that conducts international settlements, as Vnesheconombank once did, the rest should work domestically and therefore should not have any relations with FATCA
        1. midivan
          midivan 18 February 2016 22: 34
          36
          Quote: Pilat2009
          That's when we will produce everything ourselves, then we can refuse
          But while this is utopia, no one will sell drugs for rubles

          or maybe for starters, at least we’ll start selling for our own rubles? Well, for example, you have to pay oil in rubles, but we don’t have a ruble, and you buy it from us at our rate of 1: 1 laughing Well, with oil, I can grab it, but the engine space for example smile
          1. Nikolay K
            Nikolay K 19 February 2016 01: 13
            +3
            You still don’t know that whoever has the money orders the music. All over the world chasing after buyers and not vice versa.
            1. Yura
              Yura 19 February 2016 09: 37
              +2
              Quote: Nikolai K
              You still don’t know that whoever has the money orders the music. All over the world chasing after buyers and not vice versa.

              I do not agree, with a deficit the opposite is true. A deficit may be for objective reasons, but may not be. For what currency to sell their goods is the will of the seller, it is dictated by many factors. It is advisable for the buyer that the product should be sold as cheaply as possible, and better for free, don’t make money for this (if we are talking about capitalism in its true form), but simply draw, build scams, piracy, rob, bomb, and what currency This question is not even secondary.
              1. Yura
                Yura 19 February 2016 09: 50
                +1
                Quote: Jura
                , and what currency is used is not even a secondary question.

                As an example, Syria, it’s necessary how many countries like vultures attacked it, and they are all different, many to the point of indecentness, most of them with their currencies, but what unites them for the most part is that they are buyers.
          2. 34 region
            34 region 19 February 2016 03: 33
            0
            Midivan! 22.34. For this, the ruble exchange rate must also be stable. And if today you buy two loaves with this money, and tomorrow you don’t need such money for nothing.
            1. midivan
              midivan 19 February 2016 06: 18
              +5
              Quote: 34 region
              Midivan! 22.34. For this, the ruble exchange rate must also be stable. And if today you buy two loaves with this money, and tomorrow you don’t need such money for nothing.

              Well, it’s not necessary to start now, but it was necessary earlier when the enemy ruble 32 was worth it, the homestead is always scary for the first time smile here’s a small example for you we can’t be out of place but nevertheless, I’m sitting in the summer with a client (car service) tryndim, she’s about to go to the hill sad and my dear course and my mother wanted to take with me, I- so go to Crimea, she-nuuu soooo no service sadI’ll go to Turkey there cheaply. and then it dawned on me, but where did the service get from if there were no people who hadn’t gone there for a hundred years? because in order for the service to be needed money and margin, and if you don’t take it there, then the service there is nothing to look out for, and if you go there, you will be inconvenienced by your beloved’s ambitions and then look next year and the shower in the room and toilet will appear further up smile so what am I doing, do you need our space engine? and we don’t have it for bucks, we have it for rubles, but we were infringed by selling it to you cheaper than you can do it at home, we ask your faber’s also in the doorway, and it turns out only ours hang out there laughing
            2. kotvov
              kotvov 19 February 2016 11: 21
              0
              , and tomorrow alone that kind of money and no one needs it for nothing. ,,
              Have you already switched to green? You don’t need rubles, send them to the welfare fund.
            3. _my opinion
              _my opinion 20 February 2016 17: 33
              0
              Quote: 34 region
              Midivan! 22.34. For this, the ruble exchange rate must also be stable. And if today you buy two loaves with this money, and tomorrow you don’t need such money for nothing.

              There are different rubles, for example, during the CMEA, there was a convertible ruble, which had nothing to do with the then Soviet rubles. The transferable ruble was used only for interstate settlements within the CMEA.

              minus is not mine.
          3. The comment was deleted.
          4. Felix
            Felix 19 February 2016 07: 44
            +2
            Quote: midivan

            or maybe for starters, at least we’ll start selling for our own rubles? Well, for example, you have to pay oil in rubles, but we don’t have a ruble, and you buy it from us at our rate of 1: 1 laughing Well, with oil, I can grab it, but the engine space for example smile


            Yeah, enough - that is to say the least. In the present world, it will not be difficult to establish production for penguins that own the entire global economy, but losing the sales market, and with it profit, is as easy as shelling pears. Ask the Poles with their apples.
            Well, they will refuse our oil, OPEC countries will instantly increase production and close the gap - and all profits will flow past our country. Engines? Okay, OK, but this is one of the few positions that are currently hardly noticeable. But what is the sales turnover? Well, let 100 million dollars in 3 years ... Crumbs! And in order to establish the production of the same microelectronics, you either have to buy and constantly update the lines (and this is the currency) or expensive R&D and huge investments, but there is not much money, because ... well, they don’t want to buy oil from us for rubles! And they will not be out of principle, so as not to set a precedent.
            1. CTEPX
              CTEPX 19 February 2016 09: 23
              0
              Quote: Felix
              Well, they don’t want to buy oil from us for rubles!

              Oil, gas, electricity, timber, non-ferrous metals should be sold only in exchange for technology and equipment)).
        2. vsoltan
          vsoltan 18 February 2016 22: 36
          27
          Pilat2009

          This is all bullshit, if you wish, you would have produced everything yourself. .. just nobody itches. ..where are the untapped trillions in 2015? Why is the government "pulling trifles" out of our pockets over and over again? Why are we all impoverished, and the management of STATE COMPANIES, such as Rosneft and Gazprom, officially declare the growth of personal income. ..? Why?
          1. Villon
            Villon 18 February 2016 22: 53
            +3
            Quote: vsoltan
            Why?

            Who is to blame and what to do?
            1. rpek32
              rpek32 19 February 2016 00: 46
              +5
              Quote: Villon
              Who is to blame and what to do?

              37 return
              1. sa-ag
                sa-ag 19 February 2016 06: 50
                +1
                Quote: rpek32
                37 return

                So here he is - returned, though from the other side "do you have any relatives abroad?"
              2. Pilat2009
                Pilat2009 19 February 2016 21: 34
                0
                Quote: rpek32
                37 return

                If you don't know, from the 1920s to the 1940s, the USSR bought a lot of things, from engine licenses to aircraft samples, and when the Cold War began, the question of survival arose and, willy-nilly, they had to move their brains and muscles, because even then they did not sell documentation and equipment needed for production in the military-industrial complex, something was imported in a roundabout way, but basically "import substitution" worked. With the coming to power of "democrats and liberals", a course of friendship and pacifism was announced, their production was abandoned since it was more profitable to buy abroad and resell with a profit of 200-300%, and the army and the navy were financed on a leftover basis, after all, friendship and gum, you know ...
          2. Wheel
            Wheel 19 February 2016 02: 59
            +1
            Quote: vsoltan
            Why are we all impoverished, and the management of state-owned companies, such as Rosneft and Gazprom, officially declares the growth of personal income. ..? Why?

            Duc, precisely because we all impoverished exactly in favor of those who became rich ...
            Did you expect something else?
          3. afrikanez
            afrikanez 19 February 2016 09: 12
            0
            Yes, because everything is left to chance. No one wants anything or really knows how to do it, while they constantly look at the Americans. Legislators, damn it, were found! am
          4. Belogor
            Belogor 19 February 2016 18: 04
            0
            I agree. This is the first time for a long time put on the rails, under Stalin. And now, when experience is available, it will be much faster.
        3. Pravdarm
          Pravdarm 18 February 2016 22: 46
          +2
          Quote: Pilat2009
          In general, there should be one bank that conducts international settlements, as Vnesheconombank once did, the rest should work domestically and therefore should not have any relations with the FATCA
          I agree, but it’s very difficult to do it already, because various enterprises, firms are tied to different banks, which in turn are already tied to FATCA. And the transition to one bank will be associated with high costs and, again, the FATCA counteraction!
          And the question
          Quote: author
          Should we expect these dirty tricks from our sworn friends? Who knows.
          From the USA? Not only worth the wait, you have to BE READY! They will use these sweet levers in any way! This is their trump card!
          1. Inok10
            Inok10 18 February 2016 23: 30
            +8
            Quote: Pravdarm
            I agree, but it’s very difficult to do it already, because various enterprises, firms are tied to different banks, which in turn are already tied to FATCA.

            ... I answered below and laid out ... that FATCA and Federal Law No. 173 have nothing to do with each other ... and, all the more so to the Honorable Citizens of the Russian Federation and Legal Entities of the Russian Federation, as well as their banks, accounts and funds deposited in the accounts of Russian banks ... hi
            Quote: Pravdarm
            From the USA? Not only worth the wait, you have to BE READY! They will use these sweet levers in any way! This is their trump card!

            ... Peony tincture very well helps protect the nervous system from an unbalanced psychosomatic state ... Regards! ... Comrades are not nervous, this is FATCA ... past us, or rather, to us from the high bell tower ... hi
          2. 34 region
            34 region 19 February 2016 03: 39
            0
            Pravdarm! 22.46. Well, what's the point of having a bunch of banks taking money from the main bank and giving interest to those in need? Why is this multistage? For the development of private business a narrow circle of people? Is the country's state bank small? Or so we strangle a private banking business?
            1. Pilat2009
              Pilat2009 20 February 2016 17: 47
              0
              Quote: Region 34
              taking money from the main bank and giving interest to the needy?

              In fact, they took money abroad, which led to the banking crisis, which eventually had to be resolved by the state. In the USSR there was only Sberbank and he made a profit as a monopolist. And now there are a hundred banks. They make a profit and sometimes burst, which does not contribute financial stability, and even launder money
        4. alexander 2
          alexander 2 19 February 2016 00: 24
          +3
          If oil and gas are sold only for rubles, then they will be in demand. Then medicines and much more can be bought for rubles. The dollar is not provided with anything and rests only on the trust of people in it. If at least once undermining confidence in the dollar, it will collapse. But these people will not do it. They defend the interests of others. Therefore, until you change them, nothing will change. If Putin does this, then he will be the best politician of our time. If not, Russia will be enslaved.
          1. Nikolay K
            Nikolay K 19 February 2016 01: 18
            -9
            Alexander, sell me your car for candy wrappers. What do not want? Do you think the world is full of people who want to sell their goods for rubles?
            1. midivan
              midivan 19 February 2016 06: 31
              +5
              Quote: Nikolai K
              Alexander, sell me your car for candy wrappers. What do not want? Do you think the world is full of people who want to sell their goods for rubles?

              that is, you want to say if we say Merkel that we will not buy your cars Mercedes, Opel, WWII, Audi Volkswagen Porsche for euros and bucks, but will we refuse to sell gas for rubles but will refuse? I certainly understand the refugees will intercept our market, they also need to travel too laughing
              1. The comment was deleted.
              2. Nikolay K
                Nikolay K 19 February 2016 11: 47
                -3
                If we say so, they will twist at their temples, but they will agree, while increasing the prices of cars. Because German manufacturers will have additional hemorrhoids and the cost of converting euros into rubles and vice versa. Only I didn't understand what we gain from this? Do you think that during the day, how many million rubles will be exchanged for the euro and vice versa, the ruble will become a stronger currency? Or will the dollar fall? I am moved by these naive appeals "let's make the whole world accept rubles."
                Well, imagine, the Papuans come to you, and they say, we want to buy weapons from you, and in return put bananas, but the calculations should take place in our shells. We say yes to spit, it’s not a question, only that the cost of bananas should be no less than the cost of our weapons and bananas please go ahead, because we are not going to store funds in your shells. Is the analogy clear?
                1. alexander 2
                  alexander 2 27 February 2016 18: 43
                  0
                  Why, then, "stupid" Americans push their dollars everywhere and even force them to do it under the threat of military force, if someone does not want to. Trade, for example, for gold.
                  But to compare the dollar with shells correctly. They have approximately the same coverage.
                  If the Germans raise prices, then we will buy less. After all, there are car factories in other countries. They will not do this.
                  And why convert? I sold the car for rubles, I bought gas for rubles. This is now being converted with the participation of the dollar, so everything is becoming more expensive by a certain percentage and this percentage goes into the pocket of Americans.
                  1. atalef
                    atalef 27 February 2016 19: 06
                    +1
                    Quote: Alexander 2
                    Why, then, "stupid" Americans are pushing their dollars everywhere and even forced to do so under the threat of military force, if anyone does not want to.

                    Can you give an example?

                    Quote: Alexander 2
                    But to compare the dollar with shells correctly. They have approximately the same coverage.

                    in this case, for the same number of shells you have to give 78 times more than full-bodied rubles
                    Quote: Alexander 2
                    If the Germans raise prices, then we will buy less. After all, there are car factories in other countries. They will not do this.

                    Who are we ?
                    Quote: Alexander 2
                    And why convert? I sold the car for rubles, I bought gas for rubles. This is now being converted with the participation of the dollar, so everything is becoming more expensive by a certain percentage and this percentage goes into the pocket of Americans.

                    from your comment I want crying и crying и crying
            2. alexander 2
              alexander 2 27 February 2016 19: 09
              0
              Selling for dollars is getting less and less, so the Americans are "twisting their arms." Incidentally, this is one of the reasons for the attack on Iraq.
              1. atalef
                atalef 27 February 2016 19: 20
                0
                Quote: Alexander 2
                Selling for dollars is getting less and less, so the Americans are "twisting their arms." Incidentally, this is one of the reasons for the attack on Iraq.
          2. JACTUS RECTUS
            JACTUS RECTUS 19 February 2016 02: 02
            +1
            Say the dollar is not what is not provided? And you are aware that the ruble is provided
            He is in dollars, that is, it is no different from the dollar, while paper, it is not even money in the classical sense. The only difference is that the dollar can be printed indefinitely, and the ruble is only for the number of dollars from the Central Bank.
          3. 34 region
            34 region 19 February 2016 03: 47
            -1
            Alexander2! 00.24. That dollar is just provided with goods. And in order to provide him with goods, they provided the Second World War. As a result, all were left without goods. But the goods were from the United States. And for their purchase they gave dollars on credit. Today a similar situation is happening. Where there is chaos, there is no production. And again, goods can only be taken for bucks and from the United States.
            1. Bakht
              Bakht 19 February 2016 09: 29
              +2
              That dollar is just provided with goods

              General misconception. The dollar is not provided with goods. If everything rested on the provision of goods, then the whole world would chase the yuan. The dollar is secured primarily by US military power. And it happened before the end of World War II. When the Bretton Woods system was established (and this is 1944), the FDR (Uzvelt) stated that the goal of the war was achieved. So the dollar is provided, firstly, by the US power structures, and secondly, by a system of banking relations. But not goods.
              1. _my opinion
                _my opinion 20 February 2016 17: 40
                +2
                Quote: Bakht
                That dollar is just provided with goods

                General misconception. The dollar is not provided with goods. If everything rested on the provision of goods, then the whole world would chase the yuan. The dollar is secured primarily by US military power. And it happened before the end of World War II. When the Bretton Woods system was established (and this is 1944), the FDR (Uzvelt) stated that the goal of the war was achieved. So the dollar is provided, firstly, by the US power structures, and secondly, by a system of banking relations. But not goods.

                I add that the dollar is also provided with demand for it ... as long as there is demand - it holds, therefore, they support demand in every possible way ...
            2. CTEPX
              CTEPX 19 February 2016 09: 30
              +2
              Quote: Region 34
              Here the dollar is just provided with goods.

              Not true)). According to various experts, the excess of the number of dollars put into circulation (cash and non-cash) exceeds the number of produced goods and services in the world by 1-8 billion evergreens DAILY.
            3. alexander 2
              alexander 2 27 February 2016 19: 05
              0
              The dollar is not provided with anything. If the whole dollar mass is tied to goods, its price will fall dozens of times. Therefore, I repeat once again: the dollar rests only on faith in it.
            4. The comment was deleted.
              1. atalef
                atalef 27 February 2016 19: 08
                0
                Quote: Alexander 2
                The dollar is not provided with anything. If the whole dollar mass is tied to goods, its price will fall dozens of times. Therefore, I repeat once again: the dollar rests only on faith in it.

                You can justify it somehow, this statement, you understand, you are not a dollar, so it’s hard to take on faith hi
        5. CTEPX
          CTEPX 19 February 2016 09: 35
          +1
          Quote: Pilat2009
          there should be one bank conducting international payments, as Vnesheconombank once did, the rest should work inside the country

          It is possible in another way. Create ONE bank that works only with rubles and only within the country, transfer to it all intra-budget payments and pension fund money)).
        6. Alf
          Alf 19 February 2016 19: 34
          +1
          Quote: Pilat2009
          the rest should work domestically

          Well, you will say too. But how to wash the dibs and transfer over the hill? Most banks were created for this.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. Finntroll
        Finntroll 18 February 2016 22: 16
        15
        So behind the scenes these foreign banksters have been holding our financial institutions for Faberge from the very beginning of the existence of modern Russia. They also opened a pancake to me, "America", here is another question - why did it begin to climb to the surface only now (this is in the first place), what will happen next (this is the second). To be honest, the financial sector in our state is a sacred cow, and no matter what the talking heads from the TV say, no one ever since the beginning of the 90s has seriously (well, so that fundamentally changing the rules of the game) dared to go there. Hmm ... however, if we really, and not in words, undertake the restoration of financial sovereignty (and now this is the main criterion of sovereignty in the world), then it will be a bomb cleaner than Hiroshima, and even the 37th year will seem like garbage. Wonderful times ...
        1. opus
          opus 18 February 2016 23: 06
          +6
          Quote: FinnTroll
          hold our financial institutions for Faberge from the very beginning of the existence of modern Russia


          why only ours?
          The whole world. China is the same


          Head of the ASEAN-RFB Business Council Viktor Tarusin: Chinese banks in 2014-2015 forced Russian companies and individuals close accounts and transfer funds to other places, and also refused to issue loans, . The exceptions were only ExIm Bank and China Development Bank(analogues of VEB and VTB, respectively) due to political motivation. The remaining large banks in China were actually embedded in the global economy and value relations with American banks, so de facto joined the sanctions against Russia.
          1. severbob
            severbob 19 February 2016 05: 47
            0
            here you have friends
        2. cap
          cap 19 February 2016 00: 06
          +2
          Quote: FinnTroll
          . Hmm ... however, if we are realistically and not verbally engaged in restoring financial sovereignty (and now this is the main criterion for sovereignty in the world), then this will be a bomb cleaner than Hiroshima, and even the 37th year will seem garbage. Wonderful times ....


          Finally I read something that I can agree unconditionally. Absolutely full ruble, sorry plus. hi
          All that is written above and below are the derivatives of one problem.
      5. Ami du peuple
        Ami du peuple 18 February 2016 22: 18
        +3
        Quote: Ami du peuple
        Everything that contradicts the laws of physics is possible

        Excuse me. particle "not" missed sad Everything is possible not contrary to the laws of physics.
      6. Inok10
        Inok10 18 February 2016 22: 20
        +7
        Quote: Ami du peuple
        And I have something. It is necessary to abandon the dominance of the dollar in our economy. Otherwise, American bankers will not only bring down our financial system, but also our sovereignty. What didn’t work out by military means

        ... neighing from the article ... honestly ... Ami ... hi ... where is the dollar in our economy ?! ... he is gone ... there is a ruble ... hi ... further in essence the author’s narrative ...
        Five years ago, the United States introduced the Foreign Account Tax Compliance Act, or the FATCA for short, on the discipline of foreign accounts. Under this legal act, foreign financial institutions are required to automatically provide information about their American clients to the International Revenue Service - the US Internal Revenue Service. According to the FATCA text, credit organizations all over the world from March 31, 2015 are obliged to provide the IRS with information about the accounts of American residents so that they can not evade the sacred duty of the taxpayer.
        ... as a matter of fact it is true ... ah, then the author brings in "on the bends" and he mixed "both people and horses" ...
        In particular, the compulsory withdrawal of 30% of the amount of international bank transfers, while the non-aligned themselves risked earning in the international community the reputation of potentially risky counterparties.
        Not to mention the fact that the world banking system is critically dependent on the US Federal Reserve Service and overseas financial infrastructure. Almost all interbank transactions go through correspondent accounts with American banks, which the IRS can easily block if desired.
        ... yeah, happy ... dreaming ... laughing ... all operations with the dollar, then yes, they go through the correspondent accounts of US banks, but only in dollars .. and no more ... in euros past, in yuan past, that is, when settling in national currencies everything is past the US financial system. .. laughing ... further, how did the author draw to the topic No. 173-ФЗ “On the Peculiarities of Carrying Out Financial Transactions with Foreign Citizens and Legal Entities and Amending Certain Legislative Acts of the Russian Federation” ... this is due to the fact that now, according to another Federal Law, On June 4, 2014 No. 142 of the Federal Law “On Amending Articles 6 and 30 of the Federal Law“ On Citizenship of the Russian Federation ”and Certain Legislative Acts of the Russian Federation”, all citizens of the Russian Federation are required to submit information to the FMS of the Russian Federation in the presence of dual citizenship ... but not to the mattress tax . laughing laughing laughing
        1. Inok10
          Inok10 18 February 2016 22: 33
          10
          Quote: Inok10
          but not to the mattress tax ...

          ... pay attention ... to the Federal Law numbers ... first goes No. 142 on Dual Citizenship, then already No. 173 on finances ... that is, banks correctly began to demand all the data on the presence of Dual Citizenship and foreign residence permit ... no relation to the mattress tax FATCA ... it does not ... the author is a liar, which the world has never seen ... ah, for this ...
          Americans, for example, have no difficulty finding any reason to use the provisions of Law No. 173 to get information about any Russian enterprise and, if they wish, to block oxygen, because the banks through which it conducts its operations are controlled from overseas.
          ... I can tell the author in person that he moron ! . hi ... portrait of the author ... stuffing is not protected ... laughing
          1. Horst78
            Horst78 18 February 2016 23: 42
            +4
            Quote: Inok10
            ... pay attention ... to the Federal Law numbers ... first comes No. 142 on Dual Citizenship, then only No. 173 on Finance

            Our laws have nothing to do with the order of numbering. The question is when the law was passed and when the most important thing in it is the change. I generally "bastard" how we make changes in the laws. Instead of what would "In the Federal Law No. xxx Art.№x Ch.x change this, to this. They release the" Collection of changes in federal legislation "where such changes are made in the Federal Law No.xxx Art.x Ch.x. . on a heap of ФЗ№х., Art.х., Ч.х., Instead of specifics IN WHICH FZ, IN WHICH Article changes are made. We have to raise a LOT of "Collection of changes ..." right up to the original FZ what has changed in it all did. wassat sad
            1. Inok10
              Inok10 19 February 2016 00: 10
              +3
              Quote: Horst78
              Our laws have nothing to do with the numbering order. The question is when the law was adopted and when the most important thing in it is change.

              ... The name of the law includes its registration number with the letter index -FZ (-FKZ for constitutional laws) and the date of adoption (signing by the president). The numbering of laws is consistent, but not continuous, and renews from number 1 every year ... and further:
              - The federal law from June 4, 2014 N 142 FZ “On Amendments to Articles 6 and 30 of the Federal Law“ On Citizenship of the Russian Federation ”and Certain Legislative Acts of the Russian Federation”
              - The federal law dated June 28, 2014 N 173-ФЗ
              "On the specifics of carrying out financial transactions with foreign citizens and legal entities, on amending the Code of the Russian Federation on Administrative Offenses and invalidating certain provisions of legislative acts of the Russian Federation"
              ... that is, everything as I described above ... the numbering is consistent during 2014 ... first we figured out the "double citizens" and those with a residence permit of a foreign state, and after the banks of the Russian Federation, on the basis of the Federal Law, they began to demand information about the presence of dual citizenship and a residence permit of a foreign state ... .. and, all the more, I don’t worry about FATCA mattress covers, like all citizens of the Russian Federation who do not have a double or residence permit if they have an apartment in Spain, Cyprus, Montenegro, Bulgaria, etc. ... hi
            2. cedar
              cedar 19 February 2016 12: 54
              +2
              Quote: Horst78
              Our laws have nothing to do with the order of numbering. The question is when the law was passed and when the most important thing in it is the change. I generally "bastard" how we make changes in the laws. Instead of what would "In the Federal Law No. xxx Art.№x Ch.x change this, to this. They release the" Collection of changes in federal legislation "where such changes are made in the Federal Law No.xxx Art.x Ch.x. . on a heap of ФЗ№х., Art.х., Ч.х., Instead of specifics IN WHICH FZ, IN WHICH Article changes are made. We have to raise a LOT of "Collection of changes ..." right up to the original FZ what has changed in it all did.


              "...– David, do you think that we are so mediocre that we can’t do anything ourselves?

              - No. You do not produce anything because you cannot. But because we forbade you to do this. If the natives themselves made beads, would they really give their gold for them? If you were to produce goods, how would our exchange mechanism work? Therefore, we forbade you to produce any goods.

              “How could you forbid us to do this?”

              - Legislatively. With the help of your own laws. That we wrote them for you. On them you now live. Of course, there is no direct ban on the production of goods in these laws. But if we take them as a whole, then any commodity production in Russia is under legislative prohibition, with a triple guarantee. We have spent many grants on the creation of your legislation, so that it completely blocks the development of your industry and agriculture.

              We wrote your laws so that any person who is engaged in productive labor, could not be not poor.
              You constantly listen to your economists and are very fond of discussing the problems of your economy. But this is pointless.
              Economics is a tree that bears fruit. And legislation is the soil on which the tree of the economy grows. You can water your tree as much as you like, spud and tie it up, disperse clouds above it, giving access to sunlight. But if the tree of your economy grows on the basis of our legislation, it will never bear fruit for you ... "

              For the gifted. Our laws are NOT OUR laws! This concerns first of all "our" Constitution. We are only dreaming about the sovereignty of the ruble. In fact, walking has a pseudo-ruble - the shadow of the dollar.
              In finance and legislation, they are stronger than us, but they also have weaknesses, and there they need their deafness ...
      7. gergi
        gergi 18 February 2016 22: 29
        +6
        First you need to get rid of the Medvedev government. These liberals and defeatists, worthy successors of the Gaidar cause.
        1. Wheel
          Wheel 19 February 2016 03: 04
          +2
          Quote: gergi
          First you need to get rid of the Medvedev government. These liberals and defeatists, worthy successors of the Gaidar cause.

          Well, the government of Medvedev will leave, the government of Kozlov will be brought ...
          What will change if the same music is ordered?
      8. vsoltan
        vsoltan 18 February 2016 22: 33
        23
        Ami du peuple

        Well, the yuan may suit you. ..and I only have a ruble. ..a that our leadership is mediocre. ... of course I agree with you. ..in January, again bought US securities. ..what is that supposed to mean?
        Actually, failures in internal affairs, total theft and top-level corruption in every way retouch. ... but in foreign policy - wow! From morning till night they burst. ..Hooray! HOORAY!
        I do not mind, I am for a tough foreign policy. ..but why should one be replaced by another?
        Filmed a couple of governors? Ah-ah, the motive and triumph of justice. ..and why Chubais, Kasyanov, Gref and their name is legion, not only at large, but also at the helm and at the feeder? Only one conclusion suggests itself. ..no two. ..or power is weak and inept, that is, some kind of fools, or tied to the above. .. well, such is my simple, peasant judgment. .. Minus-minors are welcome. .. hi
      9. The comment was deleted.
      10. activator
        activator 18 February 2016 22: 52
        +3
        [Quote] Law of 10.07.2002 N 86-FZ (as amended on 30.12.2015) "О Ц

        Article 2. The authorized capital and other property of the Bank of Russia are federal property. In accordance with the goals and in the manner established by this Federal Law, the Bank of Russia exercises authority to possess, use and dispose of the property of the Bank of Russia, including the Bank of Russia gold and currency reserves. Withdrawal and encumbrance of obligations of the specified property without the consent of the Bank of Russia are not allowed, unless otherwise provided by federal law.
        The state is not liable for the obligations of the Bank of Russia, and the Bank of Russia - for the obligations of the state, if they have not assumed such obligations or unless otherwise provided by federal laws.
        The Bank of Russia carries out its expenses from its own income.

        Article 22. The Bank of Russia is not entitled to provide loans to the Government of the Russian Federation to finance the federal budget deficit, to buy government securities at their initial placement, except as provided for by the federal law on the federal budget.
        The Bank of Russia is not entitled to provide loans to finance budget deficits of state extra-budgetary funds, budgets of constituent entities of the Russian Federation and local budgets.
        [/ Quote]
        [/ quote] These are some articles from the law on the Central Bank
        1. Inok10
          Inok10 18 February 2016 23: 22
          +2
          Quote: activator
          Article 2. The authorized capital and other property of the Bank of Russia are federal property.

          ... that something does not suit you in Art. 2? ...
          - Federal ownership of all assets, that is, the property of the Russian Federation ... but, not like the "mice squeak" of the US Federal Reserve ... hi
          Quote: activator
          Withdrawal and encumbrance of obligations of the specified property without the consent of the Bank of Russia are not allowed, unless otherwise provided by federal law.

          - that is, all the same, the Russian Federation manages the assets of the Central Bank, on the basis of the Federal Law ... which are adopted by the State Duma, approved by the Federation Council and signed by the President of the Russian Federation and enter into force after publication in the Russian newspaper ... hi
          Quote: activator
          The state is not liable for the obligations of the Bank of Russia, and the Bank of Russia - for the obligations of the state, if they have not assumed such obligations or unless otherwise provided by federal laws.

          ... about the Federal laws, we have already talked above ... as it will be necessary, we will do so, on the basis of the Federal Law ... hi
          Quote: activator
          Article 22. The Bank of Russia is not entitled to provide loans to the Government of the Russian Federation to finance the federal budget deficit, to buy government securities at their initial placement, except as provided for by the federal law on the federal budget.

          ... and again the Federal Law on the federal budget ... whatever we want, we will accept this ... in general ... everything is in our hands ... and not any FRS or "foreign hand" in CBR no . hi
          1. Vladivostok
            Vladivostok 19 February 2016 04: 53
            +1
            - that is, all the same, the Russian Federation manages the assets of the Central Bank

            и
            The Bank of Russia exercises authority over the possession, use and disposal of Bank of Russia property, including the Bank of Russia gold and currency reserves. Withdrawal and encumbrance of obligations of the specified property without the consent of the Bank of Russia are not allowed,

            So still, according to the federal law on the Bank of Russia, the Bank itself disposes of its property.
            Our law so established.
            And to change this situation, you need to adopt a special law. Is it easy?
            Well, remembering the phrase said by Christina Lagarde to Vladimir Putin "You are with us!" - very, very easy!
            1. activator
              activator 19 February 2016 09: 54
              0
              Quote: Vladivostok
              Our law so established.
              And to change this situation, you need to adopt a special law. Is it easy?

              Vladivostok plus the money is disposed of by the Central Bank, although the owner of the Russian Federation, but if they accept the law, if they accept the Central Bank at all, he can do anything because he has the right to do it. Let's just say that if you keep money in a bank, this does not mean that you can see your money the bank may burst or something else. The first article says that the Central Bank is a legal entity strange yes? And maybe that's why he prints a strange bird on coins instead of the coat of arms of the Russian Federation.
          2. activator
            activator 19 February 2016 10: 31
            0
            Quote: Inok10

            ... and again the Federal Law on the federal budget ... whatever we want, we will accept this ... in general ... everything is in our hands ... and there is no Federal Reserve or "foreign hand" in the Central Bank of the Russian Federation

            Quote: Inok10

            ... and again the Federal Law on the federal budget ... whatever we want, we will accept this ... in general ... everything is in our hands ... and there is no Federal Reserve or "foreign hand" in the Central Bank of the Russian Federation

            So why don’t you want? It is clear that this will not be written that the central bank belongs to the Federal Reserve, but there will be loopholes and contradictions in the legislation which, with the support of influence groups, make the central bank an organ not controlled by the Russian Federation.
      11. SanSuh
        SanSuh 18 February 2016 22: 53
        +5
        So put Glazyev?
      12. Mercenary
        Mercenary 18 February 2016 22: 55
        +1
        To do this, the Central Bank of Russia needs to be subordinated to Russia, and according to the Constitution (1992 written by the EBNu with striped stripes and adopted by us, they voted somehow) Tsentro Bank of Russia does not report to either the President or the government of the Russian Federation. That's how we live somehow. am
        Lawyers have enough nonsense to do (you bred like rabbits), pull your brains on, tell me how to break out of bondage of an adversary? You can’t go to the forehead the last with fines ?????
        1. cedar
          cedar 19 February 2016 13: 27
          +2
          Once two years, a sanctioned economic war has been going on, and the informational and psychological war has not stopped since the "collapse" of the USSR, we must finally de jure recognize the state of emergency in the country and, according to the legally prescribed Regulation on the state of emergency of the Russian Federation, give, REQUEST to give, powers. Stop pulling the rubber.
      13. would
        would 18 February 2016 23: 15
        +5
        It is necessary to abandon the dominance of the dollar in our economy - let the yuan be, at least


        Let us suppose. Forget about the fact that the dollar is an international currency that is simply convenient for everyone. Generally everyone. Forget that the same yuan is very strongly tied to the dollar. But it’s worth remembering that almost all of the vital imports of the Russian Federation are bought for dollars from suppliers who accept only dollars. What to do with them? The question is very, very complex and I have the opinion that without creating an almost completely self-sufficient economy, abandoning the dollar will lead to disaster, the country will simply lose that without which it cannot exist.
        1. Bakht
          Bakht 19 February 2016 13: 49
          +2
          Refusal from dollar cannot lead to disaster. You just have to always remember that trade is a two-way movement. Remember, when you come to a store or a bazaar, it’s not the seller who is looking for you, but the seller’s buyer. If you refuse to accept dollars, why should the economy collapse in the Russian Federation? And in Germany, everyone will be in chocolate if the buyer does not accept dollars? Or will their gas itself burn in the kitchen?

          Another thing is that this is not an easy process. But I’m sure that the Western economy will collapse. Where to get the goods if the seller does not want your cabbage? That without which a country cannot exist just ends in Western Europe. Yes, and in Eastern too.
          1. would
            would 19 February 2016 17: 51
            0
            And in Germany, everyone will be in chocolate if the buyer does not accept dollars?


            They will not be in chocolate, but the necessary goods for domestic consumption are mostly produced domestically, and what is not produced can be bought from a partner. Moreover, Russia is far from the only buyer. In the first place, Russia will be left without a very, very, very many medicines. Even the kind of "domestic" substance is imported (what do you think is paid with what?), Here, at best, it is cleaned, packaged and called "domestic". And people, by the way, were sick, are sick, and will continue to be sick. The same goes for a bunch of materials, for example, in dentistry, and for a bunch of medical equipment. Pharmaceutical companies in the West will lose profits, but it will be incomparably worse, for example, cancer patients for whom there will be almost no chemotherapy. It will be very bad when you come to the pharmacy and see that there are no necessary drugs ... stupidly not. It will be especially bad for those who for their existence are forced to chronically take these drugs. Do you need to treat a tooth? You will be treated with domestic ones. I will not mention how pleasant and effective it is.

            A lot of production lines and machines are also imported. All modern microelectronics are imported in the same way and in the overwhelming majority of cases are bought exclusively for dollars, and in exceptions for yuan, despite the fact that the dollar exchange rate directly affects the price in yuan. What do you think: How are TSMC paid for the production of a "domestic" one of the Elbrus processor variants? In rubles or what? The military-industrial complex is also very strongly tied to this, and cars too. What spare parts are, for example, KAMAZ engines? Whose gearboxes? I am silent about household appliances. Of course, the Chinese copy it, but the dollar is still involved because production in the PRC is very much tied to it. In Russia, they cannot do it all themselves.

            Russia is an import-dependent country that is forced to buy all modern imports for dollars. And without this import, there will be no country. But the USA and Europe are completely self-sufficient in production and the maximum will lose a non-catastrophic part of the money, which in itself is not as important as goods.

            Or will their gas itself burn in the kitchen?


            I may surprise you, but Russia is not the only gas supplier, and Europe has been pursuing a policy of replacing Russian gas for a very long time.
            1. Bakht
              Bakht 19 February 2016 18: 21
              +2
              I have to surprise you too. No country in the world (NONE) is self-sufficient. Autocracy is not in the Russian Federation, nor in Europe, nor in the States, nor even in China. And there is no alternative to Russian gas in Europe. They will not buy from Russia, they will not buy from anyone. Or close their chemical industry by 50%. And pharmaceuticals, by the way, too.

              No need to live myths and fairy tales. International trade is a compromise. And if I do not want to sell for dollars, this does not mean that the Russian Federation will bend and Europe will buy from someone else. Will not buy. Nowhere to buy. And even the price will fly up to heaven there will be nobody to buy. And again, the closure of production. For reference, the Russian Federation produces about 11 million barrels of oil. This is more than 10% of world production. If the Martians do not bring, then there will be nowhere to buy.

              It’s another matter that this is not the case with the floundering bay. There are contracts, there are contracts. They are painted for years to come. For example, gas supplies are scheduled right up to 2020-2025. But you need to move away from the dollar.
              1. Bakht
                Bakht 19 February 2016 18: 45
                +1
                A common mistake in such constructions. The dollar, ruble, yuan - these are all financial TOOLS. Only real products matter. And what does not matter what to pay. In the end, a bunch of labels were hung on the barter, but no one canceled it. You can trade at least for a bunch of bananas or for colored beads. NEEDED REQUESTED PRODUCT.

                If your product is needed, then they will buy it. Buy for anything. And for medicines, and for processors, and for rubles, and for Tugriks. When the advanced West sat in a deep pope, Stalin bought 1000 factories from them. Although sanctions were worse than today. And the lack of dollars did not hurt him. And when the Germans were impatient, they sold not just the cruiser Luttsov for simple crude oil, but also a multi-ton press, which worked throughout the war on the production of the T-34.

                Do not confuse financial instruments and real goods. There are no replacements for Russian gas and oil and is not expected in the near future. They will not buy for rubles or processors, they will be left without drugs. But why such passions, if all-round to settle trade agreements. 2019 will end and the gas pipeline of Ukraine will come pipe. Then it will be possible to say to whom this enlightened Europe does not need Russian gas.
              2. would
                would 19 February 2016 20: 06
                -1
                I have to surprise you too. No country in the world (NONE) is self-sufficient


                It just doesn’t surprise me, I know it wonderfully. And that's why Western countries trade among themselves, yes.

                They will not buy from Russia, they will not buy from anyone. Or close their chemical industry by 50%. And pharmaceuticals, by the way, too.


                It's funny to read it. They won’t buy from Russia, they will buy from others both for oil and gas, so in general sellers will be happy! After all, a major competitor has left the market. They will close the entire chemical industry by 50% only under the condition that the Russian Federation consumes the very 50%, and this is a very, very, very high figure. Pharmaceuticals are also comparatively ridiculous; Russia is a relatively small market. And most importantly: Abbreviations are in any way better than the absence of vital goods.

                For reference, the Russian Federation produces about 11 million barrels of oil


                And how much is already an excess? Already 1 million despite the fact that market participants are trying not to especially increase production. A deficit for them will be a fairy tale, prices will soar.

                . And what does not matter what to pay.


                Well, try, for example, to go to a store in the Russian Federation and pay in manats there. This is "not the point" and must be accepted.

                So under your scenario, a catastrophe will begin in Russia without the self-sufficiency of the economy or suppliers who are able to supply the same goods, but for example for the yuan. China is unable to pull it all out .... but there are no others. But Maidan will turn out cool.
                1. Bakht
                  Bakht 20 February 2016 00: 41
                  +1
                  Does not convince. Manats will not be accepted at the store, but will be accepted at the bank. And in Moscow itself. Checked. So it really doesn’t matter. I managed manats in both Moscow and Kazakhstan. There were difficulties, but managed.

                  Oil surplus is not 1 million barrels, but 1,5 million barrels per day. Some write about 2 million barrels. But the strange thing is statistics. I will not spread. Too long. But the Russian Federation sells abroad about 5 million barrels per day. And if you do not buy them, then prices will skyrocket and goodbye jobs and the petrochemical industry. And that’s almost everything. No rubber, no plastic, no medicine. No computers, no cars. I must say that the production of microcircuits in your computer consumes from 2 to 4 grams of oil. Independence Square will be in European capitals. Well, whoever used to - you can bet, but they will immediately rush to buy from the same Russian Federation.

                  Take the word of a person who knows a little about the oil industry. They will not buy anywhere. There is no this very oil. And don't believe the statistics. One little fact kills all constructions. The trouble is that the "experts" do not remember what was written a year ago.

                  I do not believe in an overabundance of oil. From the 2008 crisis to the present, oil consumption has grown from 85 million barrels per day to 94 million barrels. And with ARAMCO reports, you can wipe yourself in the need. They are not suitable for anything else.

                  There is no alternative. It would have long been strangled the oil industry of the Russian Federation with sanctions. But they can’t. It is fraught sideways, as they say. Well, okay, what to argue ... Everyone is trying to abandon the dollar. Too expensive and dangerous. And gradually this process is going on. Not immediately, of course. I really like the FDR (which Roosevelt). It's time to get back to Bretton Wood. Not all of course. But in the main points. And this is a rejection of many modern economic tales.
                  1. Bakht
                    Bakht 20 February 2016 01: 01
                    +2
                    Some information for consideration. And the question. To those who are interested and who want to look for true statistics.

                    So we have numerous press reports. Oil surplus from 1 to 2 million barrels per day. Take the number 1. And it’s easier to count and indulgence to alarmists. In the Gulf of Mexico, there are tankers filled with oil, because there is nowhere to store. Horror. We all choke on oil ......

                    A year ago, just in March, it was written that in 3 months all warehouses would be full. Just in time for the summer of 2015. A year has passed. This year, according to the most conservative estimates, 365 million barrels of EXCESS oil were pumped into warehouses. And the tankers are still crowded. Now they write that in 3 months the oil will have nowhere to store. déjà vu ....

                    And now the Cushing report. In storage, there is still free 20%. As they were 20% a year ago, they remained. With tankers standing on jokes and overfilled with oil, free tankers for transporting oil are still without difficulty. Oil refineries do not reduce productivity and, as before, everyone wants to increase their capacity.

                    Oil consumption over the past year has increased from 93 to 94 million barrels per day. And the reports of Saudi Arabia sin with such shortcomings that few people know how much they actually produce. At the same time, everyone unanimously asserts that the price of oil is not determined by either demand or supply. E. Laurent's book was called "Oil: Lies, Secrets and Frauds"

                    So who can say for sure whether there is an oversupply of oil or not? Or is it all speculator games? And this has nothing to do with real demand and consumption. People like Sechin, Alekperov, and Saudi Oil Minister said that the amount of oil produced does not affect the price.
                  2. would
                    would 20 February 2016 01: 25
                    -1
                    Manats will not be accepted at the store, but will be accepted at the bank


                    Where they are replaced by rubles. That is, it turns out that the payment method is important contrary to your words.

                    And if you do not buy them, then prices will skyrocket and goodbye jobs and the petrochemical industry. And that’s almost everything. No rubber, no plastic, no medicine. No computers, no cars


                    Which however is an apocalyptic scenario from the absence of a single market player. Apparently, others will not be able to seize the initiative and dramatically increase oil production, which recently all market players did. Right here, Russia is so irreplaceable ... only for some reason, oil costs a little more than $ 30. And in this situation, it should cost more than 100 as before. But something costs 30, all kinds of speculators who do not want to earn a lot.

                    So I will repeat what the situation will be in the current Russian economy: Dollar receipts to the budget will be 0. They will not buy anything for dollars. It will not work to buy vital drugs, the pharmacies will be empty. Smart people should be asked how much domestic testing for HIV and HAART is, otherwise it may turn out that the country will be left without means of protection from the HIV epidemic with all the jokes of some Nigeria. In principle, the Russian Federation has already outstripped a number of African countries in dynamics, but "it is still ahead." The production of goods that are important for the economy will rise because they are either produced from imported material or on imported equipment. All. We can assume that there is no country. But in fact, the country will lose a lot of everything. Outcome: Popular discontent with the thoughtless policy of the authorities, Maidan.

                    Due to the fact that the Russian Federation is a small market, most of the countries will not suffer catastrophically, and the same West will likely rub hands because it will soon receive the same deposits.
                    1. Bakht
                      Bakht 20 February 2016 11: 21
                      +1
                      You are so sure that Russia with its 10 million barrels a day is easy to replace, that the dispute is becoming pointless. Here is one more information.

                      Now there is an overabundance of oil, according to many. But here is just one message that the three countries are going (no, not cut), but simply freezing the level of production (that is, leaving an oversupply of 1 million barrels) has boosted prices by 10%. From 32 to 35 evergreens. True, then the Saud played back and the price returned to 32.

                      No one in the world can dramatically increase oil production. Even Iran and the Saudis. Saudis yelled 10 years ago that they would easily get 10 and 12 and 15 million a day. Does not work. The Gavar deposit is running out of steam. Do you want to laugh? The Saudis said their oil reserves were estimated at 65 billion barrels in the 80s. To date, nearly 60 billion has been mined. How are the remaining reserves of Gavar estimated? Correctly, according to the methodology from the Higher School of Mathematics 65-60 = 125 billion. Such is the assessment of the reserves of Gavar today.

                      Independent expert Simmons presented a compelling case that the Saudis produce no more than 7 million barrels. This is easily verified by cargo documents of the Rotterdam oil terminal. What is the result? Absolutely predictable. A couple of days before the hearing on the report, Simmons drowned in his pool.

                      It’s good that I don’t have a pool.

                      Blessed is he who believes. Remember, on the same site, they wrote a lot about the fact that Azerbaijan will replace Russia in the Turkish market? Easy as two fingers on the asphalt. Do you know the reality? Oil production in Azerbaijan has fallen by 20% over the past two years. Depleted fields with intensive production. And on gas, both Nabucco and Tanap and other projects ordered a long life. Azerbaijan wants to buy 4 billion cubic meters of gas from Russia. Despite the fact that Shah Denikh is a new field.

                      Something in reality, I do not see that Europe will be able to replace Russian hydrocarbons. Nord Stream 2 no fools are building. And besides hydrocarbons, there is also titanium and aluminum and a bunch of other interesting positions. Classics of economics say that capitalism can develop only with expanding markets. The exclusion of such a market as the Russian one reduces the basis of capitalism immediately by 10-15%. This is more terrible than any Maidan. I studied in old textbooks and so far no one has been able to refute Capital. It is part of the compulsory program of any SERIOUS educational institution in the West.
                      1. would
                        would 20 February 2016 21: 02
                        -3
                        Are you so sure that Russia with its 10 million barrels per day is easy to replace


                        It is elementary to replace. You can use the Maidan to make a revolution in such conditions and get hold of Russian deposits, you can not do this and, due to the shortage of oil, raise its price to a high level. So I repeat: If we assume that the West will suffer under such conditions, then Russia simply will not become a modern state.
                      2. Bakht
                        Bakht 20 February 2016 21: 13
                        +1
                        This is not serious. Neither in the first nor in the second case.

                        In general, the discussion turned out well. You think that without a dollar, Russia will bend. I believe that we all will bend with the dollar.

                        Everyone remained in their own opinion and did not listen to the opponent.

                        Summary. This is not yours and not our currency. This is a foreign currency and therefore you can make any price for any product. This is the absence of Russia as a state. And any other state. We (not only the Russian Federation) can save only the refusal to use a foreign currency in mutual settlements. What you offer is a direct path to surrender. And, by the way, the facts do not confirm your point of view.

                        Refusing the dollar is now a global trend. So there is a healthy grain in this way.

                        Good luck on the path of subordinating the sovereignty of the Russian Federation under someone else's financial instrument.
                      3. would
                        would 21 February 2016 23: 45
                        0
                        This is not serious. Neither in the first nor in the second case.


                        This is absolutely serious in both the first and second cases. Because when the import-dependent economy collapses without a means of buying imports, the people will rebel. People come to the pharmacy, but there are no medicines, they come to the store and there are no even "domestic" products there, production stops due to the inability to buy consumables for imported equipment, dealers are also closed, a lot of sharply unemployed people who are not able to get life -important goods and have certain financial obligations. Perfect scenario. And then it's up to the puppeteers.

                        and therefore, you can make any price on any product.


                        As if the exporting country could not do so in its currency laughing

                        What you offer is a direct path to surrender.


                        What you propose is a path to the destruction of Russia's sovereignty and complete subordination to Western states. I don't care if Russia will depend on dollar imports or will ever switch to imports in yuan. Will it sell resources for next to nothing in dollars or some other currency? In all cases, it will be dependent on a foreign state and foreign currency. Will a foreign state, for example, ever sell advanced developments? No. That is why, unlike you, I do not propose an indiscriminate rejection of the dollar, which you have is an end in itself, and what will happen next is completely unimportant. And in general "Europe will also suffer", but the fact that the Russian Federation will suffer is also unimportant. The main thing is to refuse. And for me the main thing is to build the most self-sufficient economy, because this is the only way out to economic independence. What problems with imports can we talk about if all vital medicines, all machine tools and full cycle production (just like that, not a screwdriver assembly as now) will be their own? They absolutely do not care what the importer's conditions are, what the exchange rate is, and so on. They depend only on their state. Well, then you can start your own developments, because Israel has become a leader in a relatively short time, and Russia is only better in all respects. And there will already be a queue behind them, and we will already determine the price of products. And the dollar in such conditions can be at least 1000 rubles, it is no longer important, although no one refused it. It is not necessary to sell resources as resource colonies do, but to recycle yourself (you can ask who is currently processing resources from the Far East, how they are sent to the PRC for processing !!!), make the final product at home and sell. Selling not crude oil, but refining it at home so that the United States would be jealous of technology. To make modern thermal fabrics and other synthetics from oil. Just because selling oil for next to nothing to another state, where other workers will make a commodity out of it that costs 20-30-40-100-1000 times more, is direct sabotage.
                      4. Bakht
                        Bakht 22 February 2016 11: 28
                        0
                        I am glad for you that you are so confident in the independence of Russia. For example, I am absolutely not sure about this. You grow potatoes in your garden, spill sweat, and a neighbor has set a price for you. Of course you are independent. From his labor and his goods.

                        What is Israel ahead of? In high technology? What Israeli product do you consider a global brand? What kind of US independence are you talking about if components for the Tomahawks come from China? A couple of years ago there was a huge scandal when it turned out that the production of gyroscopes for cruise missiles was transferred to China. The company was forced to return to the States. Even the US Flag over the White House is made in Mexico.

                        You are confusing a consumer society and a patriotic society. Do you know why France surrendered in 40 days, while the USSR held on to the Volga cliff? Because the French, following your example, did not agree to endure hardships. And the Soviet people in Leningrad lived on 125 grams of blockade with fire and blood in half. But they didn't give up. And they did not go to the Maidan.

                        25 years of "independence" of Russia have not taught you anything.
                      5. would
                        would 22 February 2016 12: 25
                        0
                        I am glad for you that you are so confident in the independence of Russia.


                        Of course, where I wrote about some kind of independence was not indicated.


                        You grow potatoes in your garden, spill sweat, and a neighbor has set a price for you.


                        No, not that example. I am a very small country that makes advanced microbolometric matrices for thermal imagers. One of the few countries that is capable of this. And when others come to me, I can do the following: I fold my fist with a stone face, put my thumb between the index and middle and twist in front of the person asking. And he begs me to sell him the matrix. Tearfully begs. But I do not sell. But I can offer to buy an outdated matrix at an exorbitant price, and he will agree. It’s especially no one to buy from anyone. Doesn’t the country in the person of the asking remind? In my opinion a very transparent hint for people familiar with the situation. And I can sell advanced matrices to my allies ... if I want. And I also set the price as I want; my geopolitical adversary will not sell such matrices to my allies anyway. Why am I doing this? You can sell raw materials as much as you like for nothing, for any currency. Cool will be the one who makes an advanced product, a high-tech product, from raw materials. It will be he who will sell it for a lot of money, it will be he who will determine who to sell, it will be for him that they will go for the petition for sale. Exactly so: Not the seller runs after the buyer, but the buyer after the seller. And this product is more expensive than money, money compared to it cut paper. At least dollars, even rubles, even yuan or yen.

                        Another example: A company like Polartec LLC. They develop advanced thermal fabrics and insulation. Advanced developments. Go to the American store where it is sold and look carefully. There will be thermal underwear from Polartec fabrics. Go to Germany and what will you see there? Yes Yes. Finland, Russia, many, many countries buy fabrics and insulation from Polartec LLC and sew or sell products from them. Anyone can sew, but to develop an advanced thermal fabric is difficult, this is a knowledge-based business. But when she appears her abruptly begin to buy. And the added value along the entire production path will not be comparable with the price of oil from which synthetics are made.

                        What is Israel ahead of? In high technology?


                        I recommend looking at the IT sector of Israel, military-industrial complex, UAV, thermal imagers and night vision devices, for a lot of things, including agriculture. Israel relied on high technology and did not fail. They make the same microbolometric matrices for thermal imagers, here the hint is generally transparent. Guess by the way what part of the raw materials for production they have their own.

                        What kind of US independence are you talking about?


                        I didn’t say anything like that.
                      6. would
                        would 22 February 2016 12: 26
                        0
                        You are confusing a consumer society and a patriotic society. Do you know why France surrendered in 40 days, while the USSR held on to the Volga cliff? Because the French, following your example, did not agree to endure hardships. And the Soviet people in Leningrad lived on 125 grams of blockade with fire and blood in half. But they didn't give up. And they did not go to the Maidan.


                        You are confusing the "khataskraynik" society with a patriotic society. The people of the USSR saw the devastating policy of Nazi Germany in the same way went to a kind of "Maidan". They did not surrender, did not wait for the Nazis to come to power. By the way, the Maidan was good, they reached Berlin, changed the policy laughing ... Well, the puppeteers in the USSR very well explained to the people what to take, where to go, what to do and why. Creative puppeteers were and worked well, for the good of the party. And at that very time in the USSR they were working on quite advanced technologies, the situation was of course different, but the management understood that if you sit down and do nothing, then in the end there will be no country. The blockaders choked on their "bread", too, not for the fact that the Nazis would come to power, that their children would live the same way, but for the sake of their children, the next generations would live incomparably better. They worked for the good of the country, or, to be more precise, they died for the good of the country, for the good of the nation. A list of the USSR's achievements can be found in history textbooks.

                        25 years of "independence" of Russia have not taught you anything. You can trade raw materials for pennies in any currency as much as you like, until the country ceases to be a raw material colony of the West and starts producing essential goods itself, it will be in one place. Rhymes with the word Europe. It will be there, the West will buy raw materials for a pittance, produce goods at home, and then resell it to Russia for completely different money.
                      7. Bakht
                        Bakht 22 February 2016 13: 04
                        0
                        No country in the world will produce even basic necessities in full. She will buy them. Something more, something less. I do not advocate for the full autocracy of the country (this is impossible) but for a fair price for the goods. Dollar trading does not give a fair price. Why did Britain oppose the Bretton Woods system? Why was Roosevelt called a communist? We need a return to Bretton Wood at least in the basic provisions. And now we have speculative financial capital that has crushed the whole world. Tool pressure is the dollar. This is not the position of a "khataskraynik" but the position of a patriot who sees who his enemy is and tries to fight him. Trading in dollars is surrender.
                      8. atalef
                        atalef 22 February 2016 13: 11
                        0
                        Quote: Bakht
                        Trading for dollars is surrender

                        So do not trade.
                      9. Bakht
                        Bakht 23 February 2016 10: 14
                        0
                        So capitulators and forced. And now there has been a departure. And I'm for it with both hands. Not only in the Russian Federation. I want Azerbaijan to move away from this noose. We have nowhere to bend with these dollars.
                2. Bakht
                  Bakht 22 February 2016 12: 56
                  0
                  I leave behind the scenes "puppeteers" and so on. Since I myself have worked in hydrocarbon exploration, I can assure you that your ideas are wrong. It is not cheap at all to get this "cheapest raw material". We need advanced technology. Nobody tried to drill 7-8 km? Try it. Or get gas at Prirazlomnaya? Or probing 10 km. There are no such technologies. The Russian Federation is one of the few countries that has advanced technologies.

                  Your confidence is based on the ability to replace Russian hydrocarbons. I’m sure of the opposite. And when you come to me to buy the very oil and gas from which you make wonderful advanced things, I will twist you the same fig and I won’t sell it. And you will beg me to sell for any price. Otherwise, your advanced technology will end.

                  Are you sitting at the computer in the office now? Well, look around.
                  Plastic, fiber and rubber, synthetics, insecticides, fertilizers, paint, medicines, dyes, detergents, glue inks, ballpoint pens, paper. Now the number of products derived from oil is estimated at more than 80 names.

                  You live in a world built on oil. And all your advanced technologies are not worth a penny if there is no oil. So now Russia is switching over to trading in rubles. Slowly but moving. And this is the very fur-bearing animal for your technologies. You won't go anywhere. Buy for rubles or yuan. Or your wonderful fibers and medicines. The alternative is a cart and steam traction. So they say that "you also have to go to Siberia for firewood."

                  Another example from World War II. Do you know how many locomotives the USSR produced in 1941-45? Or how much did you buy food? I did not receive a gift under Lend-Lease, namely I bought it. Take an interest. Studebaker alone 400 units. So the West of Russia is not like medicines - the mother will sell her native for oil.

                  Reference: the price of oil in Russia is about 3000 rubles per barrel. Not dollars and not tugriks. Rubles. This price is in contracts with China and Iran. With China, even trickier done.

                  PS Once again, I remind you of the axiom. In the absence of trade, not only one side suffers. Bad on both sides. But only one side has potatoes and the other has green paper. And trading for dollars just kills one side. You have not convinced me of anything.

                  PPS None and the last fun. A few months ago, at a meeting with Kerry, S. Lavrov arrived at Victory and gave Kerry two onions: with tomatoes and potatoes. There were many speculations, what is the meaning of this gift. I tried as best I could to explain to you now. Oil is a REAL PRODUCT. Dollars are a VIRTUAL TOOL. And your thermal materials are also REAL GOODS, but DERIVATIVES from oil.
                3. The comment was deleted.
                4. atalef
                  atalef 22 February 2016 13: 07
                  -1
                  Quote: Bakht
                  Your confidence is based on the ability to replace Russian hydrocarbons. I'm just sure the opposite

                  I would agree with you, if Russia had a monopoly on production

                  Quote: Bakht
                  No one tried to drill on 7-8 km? Give it a try. Or get gas on Prirazlomnaya? Or conduct sounding on 10 km

                  Try to make a 18nm chip
                  Quote: Bakht
                  You do wonderful advanced things, I’ll twist the same fig for you and I won’t sell it.

                  buy from another.
                  But who do you buy from? China?
                  Quote: Bakht
                  And you will beg me to sell for any price. Otherwise, your advanced technology will end.

                  Well, the facts say otherwise.
                  Oil producers in the world --- the sea, but advanced technology - one-two and miscalculated.
                  Tell me (for the same Prirazlomnaya) - what is the share of Russian equipment?

                  Quote: Bakht
                  You live in a world built on oil. And all your advanced technologies are not worth a penny if there is no oil

                  Without all these technologies, there will be no oil.
                  Quote: Bakht
                  You won’t go anywhere. You will buy for rubles or yuan.

                  Who is the oil? For the yuan?
                  Are you confusing anything?
                  Quote: Bakht
                  The alternative is a cart and steam traction. So they say that "you also have to go to Siberia for firewood."


                  Why not to Saudi Arabia? Or Venezuela? Or Norway? Or Nigeria? Or Azerbaijan, Qatar, Kuwait, Malaysia, etc.
                  Quote: Bakht
                  Or how much did you buy food? I did not receive a gift under Lend-Lease, namely I bought it. Take an interest. One studentbucker 400 000 pieces

                  can I link?
                  Quote: Bakht
                  Reference: the price of oil in Russia is about 3000 rubles per barrel

                  At what rate of the dollar?
                  Quote: Bakht
                  Oil is a REAL PRODUCT. Dollars are a VIRTUAL TOOL

                  Are rubles real or vertical?
                5. Bakht
                  Bakht 23 February 2016 10: 17
                  0
                  Retelling already said. You did not say anything new. Moreover, all this has already been discussed with you more than once.
                6. Bakht
                  Bakht 23 February 2016 10: 44
                  0
                  can I link?

                  Once again I come across a culture of discussion. Nobody gives me a single link here. Only unfounded slogans. Like that "the seller sets the price." Although a huge mass of specialists have long recognized that the seller DOES NOT ASSIGN the price.

                  But so be it. Since I was more interested in the history of World War II, then without links. If interested, you will find it yourself. Just quotes

                  The output of main steam locomotives in the USSR changed as follows: in 1940 - 914, in 1941 - 708, in 1942 - 9, in 1943 - 43, in 1944 - 32, in 1945 - 8. In 1940, 5 main diesel locomotives were produced, and in 1941 - 1, after which their release was discontinued until 1945 inclusive.
                  The main electric locomotives in 1940 produced 9 pieces, and in 1941 - 6 pieces, after which their release was also discontinued.

                  Under the Lend-Lease of the USSR, I bought 2100 diesel and steam locomotives.

                  Studebaker
                  In total, 480 thousand cars were delivered under Lend-Lease (85% of them were from the USA). Including about 430 thousand freight (mainly US 6 Studebaker and REO firms) and 50 thousand jeeps (Willys MB and Ford GPW). Despite the fact that the total revenue of cars on the Soviet-German front amounted to 744 thousand units, the share of Lend-Lease equipment in the Soviet fleet was 64%. In addition, 35 motorcycles were shipped from the United States.


                  And finally, why am I writing BUY?
                  Thus, according to the United States, it was necessary to pay $ 11 billion or about 1,3% of the total US Lend-Lease supply of $ 12 billion for the surviving equipment. As a result, the USSR, and then Russia, from the amount of $ 1.3 billion was recognized, and then partially paid $ 722 million, or about 55%.
                  Only recently have Lend-Lease settlements ended. So the USSR paid for everything. And blood and money. Just don't say it was cheap.
              3. would
                would 22 February 2016 13: 49
                0
                No country in the world will produce even basic necessities in full


                As we see, it will be and it can very well. Food so that people would not go hungry, many states produce more than enough, medicines can be made by ourselves, machines ourselves, and so on. At a minimum, you can achieve complete independence from geopolitical opponents and trade only with allies or members of the same bloc who, in theory, are twice allies.

                Dollar trading does not give a fair price.


                A very interesting statement given that the seller sets the price.

                It is not cheap at all to get this "cheapest raw material". We need advanced technology.


                Oh well. Tell me why for the extraction of cheap raw materials (and it is very cheap, I recommend comparing the price with the final product of production) some "advanced technologies" are needed, and many countries are mining. And tell us why these countries, for example, cannot design and produce a computer processor in 14 nm. No longer 18 (as noted by atalef), 14. There are already 14nm processors. Only for some reason the Russian Federation is trying to launch the plant on old AMD equipment at 130nm.

                Your confidence is based on the ability to replace Russian hydrocarbons. I’m sure of the opposite. And when you come to me to buy the very oil and gas from which you make wonderful advanced things, I will twist you the same fig and I won’t sell it. And you will beg me to sell for any price.


                Russia is by no means the only supplier of oil and gas, there are still enough countries and the whole question is in increasing production and delivery. But the goal of replacing Russian raw materials can be solved now, it will hurt, but it can be solved. And oil and gas will remain. But what will Russia do without drugs? People there get sick, die, infect others (hello HIV incidence!). After it loses the machines on which something is produced, the high-tech sector collapses sharply because in the Russian Federation it is all tied to imports. So what we now see is the Russian Federation begs to sell at any price, I hinted at the import of matrices for thermal imagers and night vision devices that the Russian Federation had been knocking out for a very long time. She was sent far and for a long time, beat her hands when they tried to take samples out of the United States, and as a result, they began to sell wildly outdated matrices at an exorbitant price. An outdated Israeli matrix in the thermal imaging sight for the Ratnik. They bought outdated matrices from the French, whole night vision devices and thermal imagers with them, and not so long ago they knocked out a license for matrices for night vision devices. How much oil does Israel produce? France? Exactly. And the Russian Federation has nowhere to go, the army needs at least some kind of night vision devices, and even more so thermal imagers. RF does not produce microbolometric matrices for greenhouses, there is no place to get them. High technology product. And without them, the enemy army equipped with them will divide its army at night. And so at least the enemy will have chances and thermal imagers and night vision devices simply surpass the available ones.

                You live in a world built on oil. And all your advanced technologies are not worth a penny if there is no oil.


                Oil is not worth a penny if there is no technology. At first, it will not be possible to get it even with a somehow complicated method, that which can become stupidly useless. What is the point of black manure if fuel is not made from it? Plastics? Synthetics? Solvents? Well, it burns well, yes. Oil without technology is useless, we live in a world that is built on technologies that make raw materials so desired.
              4. Bakht
                Bakht 23 February 2016 10: 21
                0
                Again the same statements. You live in a world of myths. Like Chubais and Gref. Without thermal imaging cameras and microchips, we all bend. The world will bend without oil. But we are already in the tenth circle. Try to get it. I will laugh. About 4 years ago I was offered to go to Israel to work on intelligence. Do not conspire. Payment didn’t suit me. Of course, Israel conducted exploration. The light did not converge on me like a wedge. But as far as I know, it’s not very effective.
              5. would
                would 24 February 2016 01: 50
                0
                You live in a world of myths.


                Very reasoned.

                Only unfounded slogans. Like that "the seller sets the price." Although a huge mass of specialists have long recognized that the seller DOES NOT ASSIGN the price.


                Wow! That is, when I, for example, produce microbolometric matrices and set the price on them myself, for example, $ 300, it turns out that someone else does it for me. Or when I sell cars, or pies. Really unfounded affirmation and the opinion of some specialists solves something laughing

                Without thermal imaging cameras and microchips, we will all bend


                The military-industrial complex will be bent. Especially when the enemy arrives and the Russian Armed Forces stop at night and will be deprived of any support whatsoever, and the enemy army, on the contrary, will be able to conduct aggressive hostilities almost like by day. That is why ours traveled around the world and tried to buy at least something, at least from someone, for any money and rejoice at the outdated matrices that sell at exorbitant prices. Microchips? And you carefully look where they stand, carefully. Almost all modern electronic equipment, including military ... including strategic.

                The world will bend without oil.


                Indeed already in the tenth circle. A man who was called for exploration is still not aware that the Russian Federation is not the only oil exporter.
              6. Bakht
                Bakht 24 February 2016 12: 03
                0
                In order not to walk in a circle.

                Tell me, besides the very chips that Israel produces because it bought production, what else is available? Israel can explore space? Keep an inhabited station in orbit? Or maybe a fifth-generation fighter can be released instead of the Lion cub, which was licked from the Mirage? Or does it produce something similar to Armata, instead of the Chariot, that is, the recycled Centurion? Or does high-tech Israel have automobile production like KAMAZ? Everything is either slime or licensed.

                Unlike the Russian Federation, which produces the main things itself. And they still tell me about the technological backwardness of a country that has everything necessary. Anyway. Believe me, it’s your business, but I would like to know what product Israel produces from the beginning to the end of its development? Not under license or at a purchased factory? In the end, Azerbaijan produces both computers and cars. But I would never dare to say that Azerbaijan has a high-tech production. A patriot differs from a fermented patriot by realism.

                For the 11th time. The Russian Federation is not the only oil exporter. But the Russian Federation produces 10% of the market. Do you undertake to replace 10% of the market? Flag in hand. The problem is not that we need dollars, but that there are LONG-TERM contracts. For oil for 5-6 years. On gas by 10-15. Stop selling now - run into billions in penalties. That is the whole reason why the process of moving away from the dollar will drag on for several years.
              7. would
                would 24 February 2016 13: 32
                0
                Israel can explore space? Keep an inhabited station in orbit?


                It is worth noting here that he has such opportunities, but just like the Russian Federation, he is not alone. Actually, only money is needed on the ISS, make deductions and you kind of "contain" it. What Russia is also doing. So it's simple.

                Or maybe a fifth-generation fighter can be released instead of the Lion cub, which was licked from the Mirage? Or does it produce something similar to Armata, instead of the Chariot, that is, the recycled Centurion?


                You will be surprised, but "Armata" is also kind of "lapped" from Western samples. And the fifth generation fighter too. Nothing new can be invented, you can only take what has already been studied, improve, combine in a product. So, claims about copying can be made against anything, even a Kalashnikov assault rifle (yes, there is not a single unique Russian solution in the AK, everything is, as always, "licked" and, contrary to the bikes, not with Stg 44). This is the norm in the modern world.

                By the way, about this. How much domestic is there in the T-50 that is not yet mass-produced? No trolling. The information seems to be secret, but it is very hard to believe that if they did not manage to make a domestic electronic base for the Su-35 (http://www.gazeta.ru/politics/2015/02/05_a_6400845.shtml) it will soon be made for the T-50 ... In the near future, he is unlikely to go into the series. The same applies to the "Armata" tank in which there are thermal imaging cameras for which the Russian Federation does not produce and the electronic base which is again imported. Russia cannot do this yet; it can design it, but it cannot. And they only promise to replace it with a domestic one "in 5 years." You will be especially pleased that to replace imported matrices for thermal imagers are assembled by French matrices produced in the Russian Federation under license. But we all know that these 5 years can be repeated many times. It comes to the ridiculous when the oil sensor for the Armata engine is made by Ukraine and is not produced in Russia.

                Is there automobile production like KAMAZ?


                Is this the Kamaz that uses "domestic" engines with foreign parts? Imported polymers? Imported gearboxes? Yeah, that one. It is especially interesting to remember "Typhoon" where the jaw can fall off from the level of import.
                . But the Russian Federation produces 10% of the market. Do you undertake to replace 10% of the market?


                You will be surprised, but not only will it be possible to replace 10% if necessary (especially given the fact that Iran is pulling up), you can also live without these 10%. Yes, it will hurt, but there will be problems. But it is possible. 10% for the world is 10%, the absence of vital imports for the Russian Federation is the absence of vital imports. For a number of items of all vital imports. And I repeat once again: Without it, there is no modern state.
              8. Bakht
                Bakht 24 February 2016 14: 18
                0
                Vital imports to the Russian Federation. As such, there are no such positions. This will not lead to a crisis in the state and the Maidan.

                Well, we have already discussed this. Thank you so much for the tip. To be honest, I did not really go into the production of microchips and chips. For these couple of days I had to look through the literature and of course the Internet.

                So, according to generalized information, microelectronics in the Russian Federation exists and fully covers the needs of the military-industrial complex. Yes 18 or 22 nm is not produced. But for quite market reasons. The bulk is from 90 to 180 nm thick. For military purposes, quite tolerable parameters. And just Russian production. Of course, under license. By the way, in Israel, all production facilities are Intel branches. They carried out their plants. And also for financial reasons. I don’t know how 22, but so far I have found out information that in Israel it is produced at 90 nm. So - it doesn’t matter. The latest F-22 Raptor flies on electronics from 500 nm. Quite enough.

                There are quite acceptable explanations for everything. The military-industrial complex will not suffer due to the lack of imports. Like food and medicine. This is all there. It will be difficult, but bearable.

                But I'm still not sure that 10% of hydrocarbons can be replaced. Iran will add 500 million barrels. Just all. And throughout the year. And he wants an investment of $ 10 billion. So far, no one has promised him such an investment. And it will not. Under sanctions these same technologies. Believe me. Iran will not receive the latest hydrophones. And without them, finding oil is difficult. That is, there is no alternative so far. Of course, you can curtail production and get unemployment. It will be difficult but tolerant. Like the Russian Federation. Everything is interconnected here.

                Yes, and your last phrase. The modern state was and is. The whole story shows it. Well, history does not teach anything. The modern state was built in the USSR with the complete absence of imports. Honestly, reading you, it seems to me that I am reading Ksyusha Sobchak. Well, Russia cannot survive without ham. Will survive. On potatoes and tomatoes. What Lavrov always said.
              9. atalef
                atalef 24 February 2016 14: 41
                +1
                Quote: Bakht
                The bulk is from 90 to 180 nm thick. For military needs, quite tolerable parameters

                it is a pity that your opinion does not coincide with the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation
                Problems with import substitution, in particular, in terms of the electronic component base, led to a significant increase in the mass of Sfera-B type devices. It so happened that the currently existing Russian carrier rockets "Proton-M", "Angara-A5" are not able to launch satellites of this type into a high-elliptical orbit in a new, Russian configuration ”,


                Quote: Bakht
                Of course, under license. By the way, in Israel, all production facilities are Intel branches. They carried out their plants. And also for financial reasons. I do not know how 22, but so far I have found out information that in Israel it is produced in 90 nm. So

                In Israeli High Tech, Intel has signed an agreement with the government to modernize Fab 28, an enterprise located in Kiryat Gat.
                Israeli Intel plans to launch 10-nanometer chips in the 2016 year.
                Fab 28 factory began its work in the 2008 year.

                Today, it produces 22-nanometer processors using 300-mm silicon wafers.

                Quote: Bakht
                . The latest F-22 Raptor flies on electronics from 500 nm. Quite enough.

                As I understand it, you know this at exactly the same level as your previous comments
                Quote: Bakht
                The military-industrial complex will not suffer due to the lack of imports. Like food and medicine. This is all there. It will be difficult, but bearable.

                Are you sure you have all the medicines?

                Quote: Bakht
                Iran will add 500 million barrels. Just a mere. And throughout the year.

                Iran was able to increase oil production by 400 thousand barrels per day after the lifting of international sanctions in January 2016
                According to some expert estimates, Iran will be able to export 2016 mln bps in February of 1,4.

                In December 2015, according to OPEC, Iran’s total oil production was more than 2,8 mln bps.

                Bakhtiyar, when you write something, check in Google, you weren’t banned there.
                And it’s somehow inconvenient to take and tip over every phrase.
              10. Bakht
                Bakht 24 February 2016 21: 42
                0
                Well missed. Used to write in millions. It is clear that 500 thousand barrels. Up to 1 million additionally want to come out in a year. By the way, the link that you brought was not justified. In February, Iran did NOT deliver 1,4 million barrels per day. Worthless to your sources. Official Tehran said it would additionally supply 2016 thousand barrels per day in the first half of 300.

                On microchips I wrote just from Google. I said that I was not involved in microelectronics. And everything seems to be right about Israeli factories. Joint with Intel. Rather, these are Intel factories in Israel. And 22 nm are not yet used in the military-industrial complex. The old ones are preserved. For reference, the Raptor, about which it was written, was launched not today and not even yesterday.

                You do not overturn every phrase. So far, I see that your comments are just not entirely adequate. Certainly not your thesis that the Russian Federation for oil products is easy to replace. But you agreed with that. And it was precisely this thesis that caused controversy. This is complete nonsense that no one in the world even wants to discuss. It is IMPOSSIBLE to find an additional 5 million barrels (and this is an approximate export of the Russian Federation) per day. It's funny not only to refute this, but even to discuss it. Especially against the backdrop of such messages from Bloomberg: "The number of drilling rigs in the United States has decreased by 2 pieces (!) And this caused an increase in oil prices."

                Try to find those same 5 million barrels. But this is all fiction. So far, I see a trend to replace the dollar. The likelihood of a "perfect storm" is too high. And for Israel too. The luminaries of the economy claim that the expensive shekel is killing exports.

                Ah, yes, on import substitution. The Internet is such an interesting thing that whoever wants what he finds. Here is a fairly complete site. We can’t consider everything. But whoever needs what - will find

                http://importozamechenie.ru/tag/vpk/
              11. Bakht
                Bakht 24 February 2016 21: 57
                0
                I'm really not good at microchips and electronics. Therefore, I use the Internet. But what I found on the Internet suggests that microchips of 90 nm are produced on an industrial basis in the Russian Federation. But two years ago, the production of microchips at 28 nm was announced. Baikal. It turned out I do not know. But probably still launched.

                https://lenta.ru/news/2015/05/25/baikal/
                https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baikal-T1

                According to media reports, 90 nm is a lag of about 10 years. But these are their microchips. So talking about the lack of technology in the Russian Federation is very, very bold. But wrong.
            2. would
              would 24 February 2016 15: 17
              +1
              Vital imports to the Russian Federation. As such, there are no such positions.


              Wow! It turns out that while I was sitting here in Russia, they began to synthesize the active substances for a whole bunch of drugs, including for HIV drugs (we have here a generalized epidemic (only officially on math models more than 1% of infected) of this 21st century plague and not if you have enough money for therapy alone, are you up to date? Is it up to date that the situation has reached such a bottom that it is only officially ahead of Chad and Mali in the dynamics of the Russian Federation? There will be no medicine, that's all! It's not even Africa ...). Only something, instead of using the domestic active substance in the framework of import substitution, they buy imported one, pack it up with us, report that we do not produce the active substance. Pests. And as for the pests, I'm serious. The same is with machines when each time they report that machines and entire production lines are imported.

              So, according to generalized information, microelectronics in the Russian Federation exists and fully covers the needs of the military-industrial complex.


              And in the Su-35, the electronics are imported. How is that? They even put imported chips in space satellites.

              But for quite market reasons. The bulk is from 90 to 180 nm thick. For military purposes, quite tolerable parameters.


              One interesting thing to note here. For the civilian segment, an increase in productivity without a proportional increase in energy consumption and temperature is necessary and the transition to fine technical processes solves this. But for the military-industrial complex, performance is often unimportant, and a decrease in the chip's technical process leads, among other things, to unpleasant consequences, such as a decrease in resistance to radioactive and electromagnetic radiation, which is important in the military-industrial complex. So 90-180nm for the military-industrial complex is very normal, 500nm for a number of chips too. But it was not only about the military-industrial complex, because it is fed, among other things, by the Russian IT industry from its taxes. But in order to make all this, production lines are needed, research is needed, you need your own production of the most complete cycle (well, you can buy silicon) ... but it is either not available in Russia, or there is no production of the necessary chips. That is why the Su-35 has imported electronics, which is why it is definitely a large part of it imported in "Armata" and many other places.
            3. would
              would 24 February 2016 15: 18
              0
              The modern state was built in the USSR with the complete absence of imports.


              Oh, how wrong, oh, how wrong. There were imports to the USSR, at the factories one could find the latest Japanese CNC machines and much more for production. After the "liberation of the stgana from the kgovaya gebni", many of them were sawn and handed over to metal. The same microelectronics, at best, for the most part was a copy of Western samples and, as smart people said, "The development of microelectronics in the USSR and later in the CIS stopped when we could not divide the foreign sample into layers." KR580VM80A analog of the Intel i8080 microprocessor, IM1821VM85A and IKR1821VM85A clones Intel 8085, T34VM and KR1858VM1 clones Zilog Z80 (they were only engaged in encapsulation of imported crystals), the whole Agat computer was made on the basis of Apple II and had an imported CPU The 6502, just like the Apple II, had the original Motorolla processor and the AT&T Unix processor in the Best-88 computer, which was legally ported. A person who understands the topic will remember many more clones when even whole computers were copied, as well as original design developments that would have been impossible without the "dissection" of foreign microprocessors, remember imported electronics.

              The second point: the USSR was a relatively self-sufficient state, especially considering the GDR, and Russia is not like that.

              On potatoes and tomatoes.


              Healthy people will survive on potatoes and tomatoes, not the economy and the country. True, they will be mildly not happy about this outcome, you can remember the same 90s, but they will survive ... the only problem is that not everyone will survive, and those who live will naturally want to change such an ingenious government that is from plasma TVs, wonderful dentistry and medicine planted them on cucumbers and tomatoes. Maidan. I say again that this is the perfect scenario! No kidding. A catastrophic and sharp drop in living standards is normal and leads to this.

              And if only jamon is important for you (this is some kind of pork in my opinion ...), then medicines, medical equipment, production equipment, electronics, foreign developments, an export business that provides employment to our specialists and pays taxes ( even if he hides from them, it is better this way, and often only this way is possible), advanced developments and much else that is categorically not connected with culinary excesses, but is what keeps the country afloat and at the same time allows the country to become economically independent. You and your "cucumbers and tomatoes" remind me of a stereotypical village peasant for whom the whole country that he has not seen is one big village, except for cows and a vegetable garden, nothing else is needed, and where do the fillings in his teeth come from, the clothes he wears somehow thinks. So he thinks that if the West dies, it will live peacefully on cows and a vegetable garden. And once he lives, then everyone will live, and if everyone lives, then the whole country will live.
          2. atalef
            atalef 24 February 2016 15: 29
            +1
            Quote: Bakht
            . The modern state was built in the USSR with the complete absence of imports.


            Google to help you, industrialization
            https://www.hse.ru/data/792/648/1237/guvshe.pdf
          3. Bakht
            Bakht 25 February 2016 09: 49
            0
            It seems that you did not live in this country. Why do I need Google if I lived here. And what industrialization you can learn is not on Google. This is not a modern state exploring space, costing atomic icebreakers and developing agriculture. Yes, and agriculture, too. Just do not send me to google. What we had under late socialism has nothing to do with what we had in the 50s.

            As always, the argument goes into particulars. This is my standard mistake. Apparently it is necessary to argue objectively and specifically. But it doesn’t work out.

            Your first post was "try to build a 28nm microprocessor". And that was your starting point in the thesis about the backwardness of Russia. Using your same technique - you would at least look through Google. And then you have to refute your every statement.
            In Russia, 28 nm processors have been manufactured for more than a year. And rockets don't fly on microprocessors. And without the Russian engines, the US military space program will order a long life. This does not mean the backwardness of the United States.

            Given that the topic has long been exhausted and no one else is participating, you can close the discussion. Your initial postulates have nothing to do with reality.
          4. would
            would 27 February 2016 17: 25
            0
            In Russia, 28 nm processors have been manufactured for more than a year.


            Oh how! Even the military-industrial complex has enough electronics, but in the Su-35 it is imported from something, it has already mastered 28nm and the Elbrus-8C (just 28n) is produced by the Taiwanese company TSMC. Around one zradniki!
      14. atalef
        atalef 24 February 2016 15: 29
        0
        Quote: Bakht
        . The modern state was built in the USSR with the complete absence of imports.


        Google to help you, industrialization
        https://www.hse.ru/data/792/648/1237/guvshe.pdf
  • oxana_iv
    oxana_iv 18 February 2016 23: 15
    +2
    Quote: Ami du peuple
    Quote: Pokast
    Hmm. And there’s nothing to say)

    And I have something. It is necessary to abandon the dominance of the dollar in our economy - let the yuan be, at least. Switch to alternative SWIFT payment systems. To oblige Russian enterprises to keep money only in our banks. To solve the problem, with whom it is not clear who is working for, the CBR Yes, much more needs to be done ..


    Yeah, with your mouth, but drink honey ...
  • NordUral
    NordUral 19 February 2016 01: 03
    +2
    No need to switch to any currency. Only rubles. In general, this is only a particular. The main one is the social system and whose ownership is in the public domain and in the subsoil.
    It is time to return to the Stalinist planned economy. Of course, given the distance traveled since. It is high time.
  • Nikolay K
    Nikolay K 19 February 2016 01: 08
    -1
    Many foreign counterparties have accounts in dollars only. How do you propose to pay them in rubles? In addition, if your account is open, for example, in euros, and the contract is in dollars, then you incur additional costs for converting from one currency to another, and then, possibly, back. Of course, as an extreme case, the scenario of a complete rejection of the dollar is also possible, but for us it will be very unprofitable.
  • Siberia 9444
    Siberia 9444 19 February 2016 01: 59
    +3
    We had such a system in Siberia and worked well. We received a salary, transferred money, paid by bank transfer, but it was shut down. Ours wanted to offer visas or master cards to the place but politely sent.
  • DPG
    DPG 19 February 2016 09: 54
    0
    And why is the yuan better than the dollar? He has recently been in the same boat with him. Why do you think it was included in the list of reserve currencies? Yes, because there is a tendency to reorient the ruble to the yuan from the dollar, and putting it in one basket with the dollar, overseas gentlemen still control what is happening, because Chinese banks are connected to the system and customer data will go through China. From what went to that and come, it is necessary to more carefully approach the choice of medicine.
  • bk316
    bk316 19 February 2016 16: 45
    +2
    let's point by point:
    Quote: Ami du peuple
    It is necessary to abandon the dominance of the dollar in our economy

    let's know how? I must say right away that it’s not enough to remove from the internal circulation (the usters have almost removed) oil (metals and much more) in dollars is
    Quote: Ami du peuple
    Switch to alternative SWIFT payment systems.

    Inside? Already passed. Outside? How? Give orders to foreign banks. "Well, get out of the swift!"
    Quote: Ami du peuple
    To oblige Russian enterprises to keep money only in our banks.

    What's the point? Do you understand how payments generally go when a resident needs to pay something abroad (or vice versa)?
    Quote: Ami du peuple
    To solve the problem, with whom it is not clear who is working for, the CBR.

    What specific question?

    Before, as we know, everyone knew football and politics, now it seems to be in the financial system as well.
  • larand
    larand 21 February 2016 09: 34
    0
    Quote: Ami du peuple
    Yes, much more needs to be done ..

    Dear, do they (the owners of the country) need it? They already have a great life. Nobody will do anything. Before the elections, they will make a couple of excuses for the appearance of concern for the "common people", such as doubts about the constitutionality of fees for the overhaul of houses, and then everything will be the same.
  • Maz
    Maz 21 February 2016 14: 00
    +2
    Cho you are panicking. Inside the country, everything is for rubles.
  • Major Yurik
    Major Yurik 18 February 2016 22: 04
    17
    I had the honor to serve in air defense and clearly understood the importance of the task being solved by the troops - the defense of the state, its interests from an external enemy. The financial system of the state is an equally important component of the country's security, and needs a mandatory protection system. And as a result, protection is carried out by private banks and half-private Security Council of Russia, for which the issue of selling the interests of the country is posted on a separate price on the door, and is considered upon receipt of favorable offers! I can’t understand, I can accept, all the more! am
    1. vsoltan
      vsoltan 18 February 2016 22: 38
      +7
      Why is the money allocated from the budget for the "additional capitalization of banks" ... why not directly, for the development of the industry and enterprises? Why?
      1. Svidetel 45
        Svidetel 45 18 February 2016 23: 15
        +7
        Because in power are the proteges of these same financial movers, who, in turn, are connected with world financial capital.
  • Altona
    Altona 18 February 2016 22: 06
    +7
    Quote: Pokast
    Hmm. And there’s nothing to say)

    ----------------------
    This is just part of the iceberg. The second part of the iceberg is that software products are also mostly under US jurisdiction. No one will hack into you either the Whats App, nor Skype, or Facebook so that you can operate some kind of correspondence in a Russian court or prove that an account belongs to a terrorist.
  • Samen
    Samen 18 February 2016 22: 07
    +5
    There is no sadder story in the world,
    What a bill from FATS presented to Juliet! crying
    / the letter A did not fit into the rhyme / (((
    1. opus
      opus 18 February 2016 23: 07
      0
      Quote: Semen
      / the letter A did not fit into the rhyme / (((


      Quote: Semen
      / the letter A did not fit into the rhyme / (((

      account from FAKI
      (better skip T)
  • aba
    aba 18 February 2016 22: 30
    +3
    Hmm. And there’s nothing to say)

    Why?! This is called the price of thoughtless partnership!
    In the 90s, they agreed on everything that the partners offered, that is, they themselves stuck their neck in a noose. But just getting in is easy, but getting out, I think, will be very painful. But if you don’t get out, then one day we’ll just die!
    1. Nikolay K
      Nikolay K 19 February 2016 01: 26
      +1
      The Americans not only us, the whole world put their dollar cancer
  • Denis Obukhov
    Denis Obukhov 18 February 2016 23: 19
    +6
    I read the article and comments.
    Gentlemen, Russian intellectuals, analysts, and WHAT to do ???
    Is there any way out of this situation? Write your thoughts and forecasts for the near future.
    How can I change something, if judging by the article THIS IS ALREADY IMPOSSIBLE !!!!
    Our whole life in Russia is a solid FACE ??? Are all bodies of power and administration pharisaism and the endless deception of their citizens? What are the ultimate goals, if any at all (I'm not talking about personal ones, about the Russian Federation)?
    Latent chaos cat. happening in the country they feel and feel everything on themselves. In peacetime - an embittered surviving and bewildered generation ... Some of our TV programs are scary to watch ...
    The Russians were infected (I hope not all) with some kind of bad virus of indifference and money-grubbing. WORK ANALYTICS !!!
    1. cap
      cap 19 February 2016 00: 45
      +1
      Quote: Denis Obukhov
      In peacetime - an embittered surviving and bewildered generation ... Some of our TV programs are scary to watch ...
      The Russians were infected (I hope not all) with some kind of bad virus of indifference and money-grubbing. WORK ANALYTICS !!!


      Overheard in the transport.
      “-How is the life of Maria Ivanovna!”
      - Oh well Petrovna, the son got the job and got a job.
      - And quit drinking?
      - I haven’t quit, but I already drink for my own.
      - And before what drank?
      “While they took crystal to the commission, I handed over and drank money.”
      I didn’t listen further. Analyzed. Here and now
      read the comments and remembered this case.
    2. CTEPX
      CTEPX 19 February 2016 10: 54
      0
      Quote: Denis Obukhov
      so what to do???

      So already doing)).
      Putting Altyn and abandoning the dollar should be provided with military power. Already several times, the start (or threat) of military operations by the United States was coordinated with the moment of a possible decision to untie the dollar.
  • nycsson
    nycsson 19 February 2016 06: 43
    0
    A vivid illustration of this is the history of the accession of the Russian Federation to the American FATCA protocol.

    I was glad from the heart for our billionaires! So you need it! Hold ours tightly for Faberge !!! wassat laughing
  • Totalwar
    Totalwar 19 February 2016 07: 25
    +2
    Quote: Pokast
    Hmm. And there’s nothing to say)


    My friends will tell you a funny incident that happened to me in the fall of 2015. In general, I went with my heads to the bank on business. She will close the payment on the line of credit, and I will meet with the bohemia of our beloved Sberbank .. well, in general, a normal working moment ... But! It was not there .. after a while, call my Arkadyevna and says I need to fill out some questionnaires that I do not pose a danger to America, that there are no accounts, and that I am not a terrorist !!! And until we fill out all the questionnaires, the bank REFUSED to accept payment on the loan !!!! In general, no matter how I shame them there and be indignant, the bank threatened to suspend further work with my company !!! I, in turn, sent them to ZHOPU and refused to pay the loan on these terms and closed all their deposits! But just in case, they wrote an official letter, in connection with which payments were suspended ... and they wrote in the heading of the letter "In connection with inadequate and illegal behavior of the bank"))))))))) In general, in the end, the bank went to an appointment while we work without questionnaires ... bye laughing
  • Gunxnumx
    Gunxnumx 19 February 2016 09: 26
    +1
    Recently I applied for a scholarship card for my daughter at Tsesna-Bank, Astana. We also laughed at a bunch of questions from the United States. And it turns out that there. Ours means, too, "lay down" under them. And where is sovereignty, and what does it have to do with it?
  • Geisenberg
    Geisenberg 19 February 2016 11: 15
    0
    Quote: Pokast
    Hmm. And there’s nothing to say)


    How races can say a lot. Another thing is that it makes no sense. Nobody will change the current state of affairs while money goes through 314ndos banks.
  • goncharov.62
    goncharov.62 20 February 2016 17: 01
    0
    Well, let the Guarantor answer the people ...
  • Dam
    Dam 18 February 2016 21: 45
    25
    In my opinion, getting out of the mattress banking system is no less important than the nuclear shield of the motherland. Submission to the Amer banking and tax system is a direct path to the loss of independence of the country. I am not an economist and unfamiliar with how to do this, but it is necessary to do
    1. Altona
      Altona 18 February 2016 22: 10
      +8
      Quote: Damm
      In my opinion, getting out of the mattress banking system

      --------------------------------
      They explained to you above that the entrance is the ruble, and the exit is 3 rubles ... Try to exit. It was not for nothing that the United States built the Bretton Woods system as a financial stranglehold system for the entire globe.
      1. vsoltan
        vsoltan 18 February 2016 22: 42
        +1
        Altona

        If you look at things realistically, nothing prevents us from spitting on everything and getting out of this game. ..only sit down with a notorious sharper and marked cards. Everything is very, very simple. ... just say "no" once and for all ... and I assure you, no global war will start. ..we'll skip the hypothetical game. .. and let them take offense to the sharper. .. thank God, we have both the Army and the Navy. Dixi.
        1. oxana_iv
          oxana_iv 18 February 2016 23: 20
          +3
          Quote: vsoltan
          Altona

          If you look at things realistically, nothing prevents us from spitting on everything and getting out of this game. ..only sit down with a notorious sharper and marked cards. Everything is very, very simple. ... just say "no" once and for all ... and I assure you, no global war will start. ..we'll skip the hypothetical game. .. and let them take offense to the sharper. .. thank God, we have both the Army and the Navy. Dixi.


          Yeah, there is only such a moment as goal-setting. In order to do this, someone (not you and me) must want this.
        2. Altona
          Altona 19 February 2016 00: 54
          +1
          Quote: vsoltan
          If you look at things realistically, nothing prevents us from spitting on everything and getting out of this game. ..only sit down with a notorious sharpie and with marked cards.

          ---------------------
          I also look real. As real as it gets. And at the table we still sit down to negotiate. We are assured that there are "terrorists" and "armed opposition". Although it is impossible to understand how they differ.
        3. sa-ag
          sa-ag 19 February 2016 06: 57
          +1
          Quote: vsoltan
          . and I assure you, no global war will begin

          Of course, just someone will have heart failure, the rest will not dare to follow this example
        4. Manul
          Manul 19 February 2016 11: 10
          0
          Quote: vsoltan
          nothing prevents us from spitting on everything and getting out of this game. ..

          But you can organize a left bank that will conclude an agreement with Sberbank to service some part of its interests. This new bank is registered in Crimea and begins to work there. Enter as many sanctions as you like against this left bank - Sberbank is clean - who knew - everything is legal. You just need to want to allocate the loot for it, and no one wants to spend their "hard-earned" money from the people. Conflict of interest, you know.
      2. Svidetel 45
        Svidetel 45 18 February 2016 23: 20
        +2
        There is only one way out, to cut the Gordeev knot, no matter how hard it is. However, judging by how foreign policy situations are developing, as they aggravate, the likelihood of "cutting" is approaching.
        1. Xsanchez
          Xsanchez 19 February 2016 00: 18
          +2
          I am afraid that, unfortunately, you are right and the time of the "felling" is approaching. A crisis more powerful than 2008 is coming, there will be no weakness in everybody. But if we leave everything as it is, then we will simply be crushed if we cannot buy (or sell) us. Therefore, you need to prepare for difficult times and squeeze the sphincter - this is not the time to relax. In the United States this year there is an election, and Trump will win there. That for the Russians, oddly enough, is much worse than Hillary, who at least will not change Obama's policy much ( It’s not clear what to expect from Trump, he’s a very experienced sharper (he will fit in without soap, but he will achieve his goal), goals are very blurred, which means more dangerous.
  • Mister22408
    Mister22408 18 February 2016 21: 46
    +6
    Homeless people suggested that "... any action with the US dollar on any territory of the planet Earth is subject to the legislation of that very Sysh," translate into wheat and honey ... :-)
  • Gormenghast
    Gormenghast 18 February 2016 21: 46
    26
    Gradations of counterfeiting.

    1. Real money is gold + other precious metals. They are fundamentally limited and unshakable. Gold and gold in Africa.
    2. A surrogate of the first kind is paper money. They do not have constant and real value and are subject to all kinds of inflation, devaluations, exchange of notes. A real means of payment cannot suffer in any way.
    3. Counterfeit of the second kind - non-cash money, which they are trying hard to introduce. This is a means of total control and instant destruction by any interested person (a bank - like "got into a rage", by the state and private hackers.) Block your PIN-DOS payment card and that's it, he's a living corpse.
    4. Quite counterfeit money - credit. This is modern slavery.

    5. The US dollar. laughing
    1. Mister22408
      Mister22408 18 February 2016 21: 50
      +1
      Two families are fighting there - you live with the first ... Then the circus will be more interesting, because the top ...
    2. dauria
      dauria 18 February 2016 21: 58
      11
      1. Real money is gold + other precious metals.


      And sometimes a piece of bread or a sip of water ... winkBy the way, the amount of oil is also limited, and it will end faster than gold.
      1. Truth
        Truth 18 February 2016 22: 09
        +8
        Quote: dauria
        And sometimes a piece of bread or a sip of water ...

        You are right, as a famous Indian said: - You can’t eat money.
      2. Gormenghast
        Gormenghast 18 February 2016 22: 19
        13
        And sometimes a piece of bread or a sip of water


        Let's not talk about the sad, although this is true. sad

        The problem is that the price of real resources (such as oil or the same gold) is determined by counterfeiters using counterfeits of the third, fourth and fifth kind.

        The purchase of gold with real delivery is 1% of the turnover of the so-called "gold exchanges"Everything else is air, paper at best.

        It's the same with oil - crooks run the show. Sits in New York and sells such a big ass "oil", which he did not see in his eyes, and generally has little idea of ​​what it is.

        Google (a set of office furniture, a server and a logo) costs more than Gazprom and Rosneft with their reserves, fields, pipelines, roads, towns, airplanes and navy.

        Simple logic suggests that this pig system should burst sooner or later.
        1. sa-ag
          sa-ag 19 February 2016 07: 01
          -1
          Quote: Gormengast
          Google (a set of office furniture, a server and a logo) costs more than Gazprom and Rosneft with their reserves, fields, pipelines, roads, towns, airplanes and navy.

          Well, do you use the products of companies that you think are crooks, because they do not have wells, pipelines or tankers? And these above-mentioned companies, which have these same pipelines and other tanks, what software do they use for their needs?
          1. Manul
            Manul 19 February 2016 11: 22
            0
            Quote: sa-ag
            Well, do you use the products of companies that you think are crooks, because they do not have wells, pipelines or tankers? And these above-mentioned companies, which have these same pipelines and other tanks, what software do they use for their needs?

            Software is an intellectual product. Whoever created it belongs to it, it can sell it, or it can throw it out. And oil, gas, ore, I'm sorry, Abramovich personally give birth to have the right to completely save a piece of gold, or all the same it is the property of the country (state , I do not require that everything be taken away and divided), in whose territory, are these resources located?
    3. Pilat2009
      Pilat2009 18 February 2016 22: 15
      +1
      Quote: Gormengast
      Gold and Africa Gold

      So it’s true, but they came up with paper money when there was not enough gold .... for minting money, because paper production is much cheaper than gold and silver, and copper probably
      1. Gormenghast
        Gormenghast 18 February 2016 22: 25
        +4
        paper money and came up with when the gold began to be missed


        And how did it end? Now they even stopped typing; Americans simply draw trillions of air dollars in computers; a mess. I read that in the USA there was a judicial precedent for non-repayment of a loan; the judge ruled that the loan was illegally drawn by the bank and is not repayable (the bank overstated some limits there).

        When exchanging a real product for something else, this something must be material and not depend on anyone. Neither from Vanka, nor from Petka, nor from Obama, nor from a gloomy programmer.
        1. oxana_iv
          oxana_iv 18 February 2016 23: 33
          +5
          Quote: Gormengast
          Now they even stopped typing; just ... draw in computers


          Super! In a few words, you have grasped the essence of the current economy. Who needs gold now? Who is interested in the real security of the currency with production (goods)? The basis of the modern system is virtual games. (From your comment above: "Google is more expensive than Gazprom and Rosneft.")
          With all due respect to Marx, I can only say one thing: Marx could not write political economy about the 21st century, and in modern conditions we really need a specialist of the same level)))
          1. cedar
            cedar 19 February 2016 13: 49
            +1
            In the global financial system, only three percent of real money, the remaining 97% are virtual!
            The modern world economy with its finances is the essence of a swindle and the empire of LIES!
    4. Aleksey_K
      Aleksey_K 18 February 2016 22: 16
      +6
      Quote: Gormengast
      1. Real money is gold + other precious metals. They are fundamentally limited and unshakable. Gold and gold in Africa.
      2. A surrogate of the first kind is paper money. They do not have constant and real value and are subject to all kinds of inflation, devaluations, exchange of notes. A real means of payment cannot suffer in any way.

      You're wrong. Any equivalent involved in the exchange of goods is subject to inflation, including gold. A simple example. The country has a huge grain harvest in other countries as well. The cost of grain in relation to gold immediately falls. Those. for 1 gr. gold give more grain than before. Compare with ruble inflation. For one dollar now they give in 2 times more rubles than in the 2014 year. Here you have ruble inflation and here you have a similar gold inflation.
      The answer is simple. Whatever you choose the equivalent of the exchange of goods, where there is speculation aimed at LIVE, there will always be inflation for one of the participants in the exchange, and vice versa - profit for the other.
      This can be avoided only with a universal agreement on the constancy of prices for goods and the equivalent involved in the global exchange of goods. But the greed of people has no boundaries and therefore this idealistic dream in commodity-money relations under capitalism is not feasible. In addition, the cost of the same product from different manufacturers cannot be the same. Costs can vary greatly.
      Only under socialism was there an attempt to make a system of one price for a particular product, at least within the same region.
      1. Gormenghast
        Gormenghast 18 February 2016 22: 29
        +2
        subject to inflation and gold including


        I know. smile After Europe democratized America, by weaning the Incas, Mayans and Aztecs of completely unnecessary gold from the latter laughing , its value in Europe has fallen significantly. But it’s better not to come up with anything. This is the only guarantee that the state will not cheat by drawing candy wrappers. And the only guarantee that all sorts of mattresses will not inflate the whole world.
      2. Xsanchez
        Xsanchez 19 February 2016 00: 35
        +1
        Gold is not a very reliable equivalent: it is extremely small, besides it is replenished many times (there are many obligations hanging on it). There are quite accurate and elastic equivalents: kilowatt hours, for example. Moreover, Tesla gave this invention to mankind for free (unlike any Edisonov). And no one can have rights per kilowatt hour. Any currency can be estimated in kWh quite accurately.
    5. Nikolay K
      Nikolay K 19 February 2016 01: 31
      +1
      Forgot to write about beads, shells and marten fur. smile
      Gold is just metal. Personally, I like platinum and titanium more. Any money is a purely virtual thing, it is primarily a measure of value. But what to call it and how to express it: it does not matter in gold, oil or stew.
      1. Captain45
        Captain45 19 February 2016 02: 53
        +3
        Quote: Nikolai K
        what to express: it does not matter in gold, oil or stew.

        Done in the hole. As an example, I’ll give you one text that appears on the web:
        We have one product from which Americans go nuts
        February 15 2016
        Now is the economic crisis, right? Goods have risen in 2 times, because there are so many products from the United States. And everyone is very unhappy with this fact. Admittedly, Coca-Cola, McDonald's, Apple, produce cool products in terms of marketing. They won the competition in their market, came to us, took their niche. And I thought, do we have such a product that if it is pushed to the West, it will fire? And I came to the conclusion that this is only one product. This is condensed milk. Americans go nuts.
        At first, they freak out from the fact that the can is completely corked. Impossible to buy and eat. There will be a couple who will start licking the can. Then they will go nuts from the fact that they will need to buy an item that will only open this can and nothing else. Generally in another store, which is not even near this one. Why alone, though? I think we need to take revenge on them for the iPhone. It is necessary to change the configuration of the can every year so that it is impossible to open it with the previous opener. And after 4 years, instead of just such a bottle opener, release this one. They will say, "What's the bullshit? It has the same function. Why is it more expensive?" 6+! And after another 4 years, show that you could take any of these 10 openers, punch a hole and drink straight from the can. And six months later, to show that it was possible to punch a second hole and drink so as not to gurgle. Straight to suck on condensed milk ... They made us stand in line for the phone. We will make them stand in line to suck the condensed milk.
        And in a year they will begin to cool down to the condensed milk, and at this very moment, push the boiled condensed milk into the second wave. Condensed milk that cannot be sucked out. Can you imagine how many American cuisines will be ruined in attempts to make boiled condensed milk out of simple condensed milk? Remember this "buff"? When you go into the kitchen and think "A-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a, I will not have time to get out, let alone when my parents come home from work, I will not have time to leave this life. get out. " You sat watching TV and heard this "buff" and did not go. I just started crying. Dad, mom, we have a new design in our kitchen. In what style? I think a caramel arthouse. This is normal for us, when you cook condensed milk, it explodes. This is normal. They will think that this is punishment for trying to cook an unlicensed version. And that's it, they will start wondering what will be the next condensed milk. Fried? Stew? Grill, maybe? And we must be silent for a year. In a year they will surrender and say: "That's it, we are withdrawing our troops from everywhere, we are removing sanctions, the dollar is falling ... Just tell us what the other side of the opener is for?" ... And we will say: "This is what we wanted to talk about. So - tomatoes, cucumbers, squash caviar "...
        (the text walks through the expanses of the network)
        Source: http: //cont.ws/post/201224
  • ALABAY45
    ALABAY45 18 February 2016 21: 50
    16
    "... Herman Oskarovich ..."
    The standard of the liberal! The snickering liberal, and this is the most dangerous subspecies ... yes
  • Denis Skiff
    Denis Skiff 18 February 2016 21: 56
    +2
    Interesting girls are dancing. Will there be something?))))))))))))))) We move to the dugouts. Throw money and breed sheep. What is it? Rehearsal of what is prophesied at the end of time? In general, laws are interesting there, in that economy. Itself practically lives.
    Quote: Mister22408
    Homeless people suggested that "... any action with the US dollar on any territory of the planet Earth is subject to the legislation of that very Sysh," translate into wheat and honey ... :-)
    So we will breed wheat and sow bees.
    Thanks to the author for a brief and understandable review. And you can’t run into Gref’s jerk. In early December, the Chinese with aliexpress stopped accepting payments if Crimea was specified as the recipient's address (despite the fact that China did not join the sanctions against Russia). The site required additional registration indicating personal data confirmed by a passport scan and a receipt for payment of com. services! If all this is done, then in a couple of weeks everything would return to normal. And the author is worried about Sberbank, here the whole China has bent over (and licked).
    right. they are not friends to us. today they say for peace. if they say. Russia did not and will not have friends. At the time of the war, ally. and so that the soyuznichka itself is not eaten.

    Quote: The Stoker
    Toli Putin merges us all. felts one of two ...
    don't shout at me so much ...
    now think for yourself - Nabiulina is a smart woman, but for how many years she has been driving our finances and will not steer us onto a more or less independent path ... Gref is clearly not di ... l ... does not allow the BRF to disappear in a debt hole The FRS and the US National Assembly, but all one thing does not take any, visible today, steps to get out of the dead loop of the banking system of Russia ... and - the guarantor signifies and sees all this, but does not want to change them, if only because it is not whom, if only because the question cannot - and who is stopping him? the answer suggests itself. that is, a number of answers - comrades from that very US (Great Britan) or our liberal traders (that they sold their homelands a long time ago), although maybe both at once?
    I’ll all go to vote for Putin and the Communist Party, but Gref and Nabiulina I would have sent to the nightingales, and I’ve also shot Tolik-Ryzhiy, the Minister-shot ... and a dozen more figures ...
    IMHO!
    So actively merges. that the army is becoming stronger and stronger. And not one war since the end of the fighting in Chechnya to this day. Yeltsin or tagged you need?
  • Dym71
    Dym71 18 February 2016 21: 59
    +6
    The president of the country was clearly dissatisfied with what he heard, but this episode is unlikely to somehow affect the status of German Oscarovich.


    Wait and see. Rumors persist that Sberu in its current form, as the country's largest bank, did not have long to live.
    1. lukke
      lukke 18 February 2016 22: 08
      +5
      Rumors persist that Sberu in its current form, as the country's largest bank, did not have long to live.
      if Sberbank falls apart, then my people, in my opinion, will be disappointed in the banking system as such with state guarantees and will not invest anywhere for thirty years. I think everyone on the top understands this. Well, Gref is not the only one we have a unique leader, we are not living in the 37th year and we are not leaving our own ...
      1. Dym71
        Dym71 18 February 2016 22: 31
        0
        Quote: lukke
        if sber falls apart


        It is unlikely to fall apart, but rather "reform" according to the regional principle - Sberbank Moscow, Sberbank Peter, etc. We have learned this well, remember the epic with the electric power industry.
        Quote: lukke
        then my people, in my opinion, will be disappointed in the banking system as such with state guarantees and will not invest anywhere for thirty years.

        Banks put them almost every day, at first they were worried, then people contacted the deposit insurance agency (DIA), calmed down, now no one pays attention to this news. When the bank is "put" it is difficult only for legal entities, because they are the last in the queue for the return, but I do not think that such a disaster will be with Sberbank.
        Quote: lukke
        Well, Gref is not the only one we have a unique leader, we are not living in the 37th year and we are not leaving our own ...

        These will not be lost. yes
      2. opus
        opus 18 February 2016 23: 13
        +2
        Quote: lukke
        Well, Gref is not the only one we have a unique leader, we are not living in the 37th year and we are not leaving our own ...


        it would be better if laws 37 were applied to grefs

        and other chubays
      3. Captain45
        Captain45 19 February 2016 03: 13
        0
        Quote: lukke
        if Sberbank falls apart, then my people, in my opinion, will be disappointed in the banking system as such with state guarantees and will not invest anywhere for thirty years

        This was already the Pavlovsk reform of the 1991 of the year, the Gaidar transition to the market, devaluation. There were some savings from my parents in Sberbank (then it was a savings bank), not millions naturally, but still money and money earned and bye bye request turned into zilch what . "Thanks to the dear party for our happy childhood!" (C) am
    2. fzr1000
      fzr1000 18 February 2016 22: 16
      -1
      Just not because of its privatization.
    3. midivan
      midivan 18 February 2016 22: 24
      +2
      Quote: Dym71
      Wait and see. Rumors persist that Sberu in its current form, as the largest bank in the country, has not long to live

      belay can be more detailed ??? otherwise I have a couple of hundred blood sad
      1. opus
        opus 18 February 2016 22: 48
        +1
        Quote: midivan
        otherwise I have a couple of hundred blood

        Sber is included in the DIA (still)
        deposits of individuals and IPs are insured in the DIA for the amount of up to 1 r
        Sleep well






        if the DIA falls apart (this is the budget and the SWF) , then the state fell apart and a couple of 100 thousand in your pocket, under the pillow, etc., it’s not a couple of hundreds of thousands, but a couple (at best).
        ------------------
        Legal entities are not insured either: the bankrupt bank is free, like a turd in flight.
        A legal entity m / y others pay taxes and the state obliges them to open bank accounts, only bn transfer, etc.
        1. midivan
          midivan 19 February 2016 03: 48
          +3
          Quote: opus
          Sber is included in the DIA (still)
          deposits of individuals and IPs are insured in the DIA for the amount of up to 1 r
          Sleep well

          smile spasibki drinks to lyama-400 I sleep and sleep laughing
          1. opus
            opus 19 February 2016 11: 42
            0
            Quote: midivan
            to lyama-400 I sleep and sleep

            Big money is a big problem.
            THE MAIN THING (how my girlfriend was deceived at the bank when the bank went bankrupt) - Don't settle for any "let us transfer your stuck money to a savings bank or another bank", "it will arrive in 1-2 days, you will receive it there, but we have no money at the cash desk (machine)."
            divorce:
            as soon as you transfer (closed an account in a crisis bank, opened it in Sberbank and there), the money left your account, the DIA's insurance ended, the DIA's "transfer" does not apply, the crisis bank has no money, the transfer is "fictitious" in the database, it is stuck on the correspondent account.
            Ales.
            Your money was gone, the crisis bank reduced the load on its debit (file cabinet), the DIA pay less, everyone is happy, EXCEPT YOU.
            A chance, only in court ... last in line after the last creditor, but no money.
    4. opus
      opus 18 February 2016 22: 27
      +4
      Quote: Dym71
      that I’ll collect in its current form, as the largest bank in the country, it’s not long to live.

      And what does that change?
      I filled out FATCA in 3 banks, where I opened an account for the company.
      Do not want to fill-free, go look for another.
      Quote: lukke
      if Sber collapses, then my people, in my opinion, are generally in the banking system

      He will not fall apart.
      There will be "decentralization".
      As in Germany (but by region):

      Landesbanken in Germany

      And this "strange" uncle ("leading economist of the country", lover of Davos parties)


      KIND NEEDS:

      Sberbank, which in September 2015 completed the centralization of the bank's IT systems, is going to completely change the new platform. “We were very proud of our program for centralizing IT systems, the way we have made serious progress in recent years, and invested huge amounts of money. It was the largest and fastest IT infrastructure centralization project in the world. But, as soon as we built our super data-center, we are all done, we conclude that we are completely uncompetitive»- said the president of Sberbank German Gref during his speech at the Gaidar Forum at the RANEPA.
      ?
      SBT Vision, chief architect of IT at Sberbank Andrey Khlyzov, reported that The program budget amounted to more than $ 1 billion.

      Sberbank’s IT expenses in 2014 amounted to about 65 billion rubles, told Sberbank First Deputy Chairman Lev Khasis. This is more than all the expenses of Yandex.

      In the meantime?
      Bye: Goethe fan and one of the highest paid managers in the country sits comfortably in the chair of the head of Sberbank, preparing to spend the next presidential term in it ....
      1. Gormenghast
        Gormenghast 18 February 2016 22: 41
        +2
        And this "strange" uncle ("leading economist of the country", lover of Davos parties)


        I only read the word "member"; that's enough for me. laughing
      2. Dym71
        Dym71 18 February 2016 22: 51
        +1
        Quote: opus
        And what does that change?

        For example, Sber Crimea appears.

        Quote: opus
        we conclude that we are completely uncompetitive

        Key phrase. good Moreover, it is about the whole of Sberbank as a whole.

        Quote: opus
        I filled out FATCA in 3 banks, where I opened an account for the company.
        Do not want to fill-free, go look for another.

        I don’t think this is our problem with you, it’s our business to earn money, pay decent salaries to employees and taxes to the state, and on this occasion let the pants go to the competent authorities.
        1. opus
          opus 18 February 2016 22: 59
          +2
          Quote: Dym71
          For example, Sber Crimea appears.

          but it is needed?

          3% to tear with EVERY communal payment? For sn Gref at 950 000 r per month?
          -----------------------------
          Today, several Russian banks operate on the peninsula, as well as two Crimean banks (CBRD and Morskoy).

          Bank "Russia"
          Bank "RNKB"
          Bank Genbank
          Kraiinvest Bank
          In addition, branches of other banks (Rublev, Just Bank, Northern Credit, Kuban Credit Bank, etc.) were opened on the peninsula in Simferopol and Sevastopol.

          Starting April 30, 2015, it became possible to withdraw money from Visa and MasterCard payment cards at the banks of Russia and RNKB. In the future, almost all banks operating on the peninsula plan to provide this service.
          Quote: Dym71
          Key phrase.

          What did you expect from the trickster?
          How did Oskarych show himself in such a way as Minister of Economic Development?
          When he was Prime Minister Mishka Kasyanov (who created this post for him).
          ?
          Oh yes:
          German Gref He was the main lobbyist for Russia's entry into the World Trade Organization. Also at various times was member of Board of Directors of many state-owned companies (Gazprom, Svyazinvest, etc.).


          Quote: Dym71
          I don’t think this is our problem with you,

          in November 15, I crashed (well, almost crashed) Baltinvestbank on 12.01.2016/XNUMX/XNUMX NO payments.
          It was necessary to open an account in another bank (the homeland allocated 30 billion rubles for rehabilitation - THANKS hi )
          I ran into a phaka. In Sber, I signed the same thing
          1. Dym71
            Dym71 18 February 2016 23: 23
            +1
            Quote: opus
            but it is needed?


            Crimeans coming to the continent will not hurt, the network is developed and accessible.

            Quote: opus
            3% to tear with EVERY communal payment?

            Greyhound, I agree yes one of the reasons Sber is unpleasant.

            Quote: opus
            What did you expect from the trickster?

            Yes, I’ve been expecting nothing from them for a long time laughing

            Quote: opus
            I crashed in November 15 (well, almost crashed) Baltinvestbank

            Sorry, we went through something like that (KB "First Express") managed to throw everything off on salaries and taxes.
            1. opus
              opus 19 February 2016 00: 12
              +2
              Quote: Dym71
              Crimeans coming to the continent will not hurt, the network is developed and accessible.

              Sber has no ATM partners.

              OJSC JSB RUSSIA is a participant in:
              Payment system “United Settlement System” (OPC), which unites the network for issuing cash and receiving payments under a single trademark “ODS” more than 200 credit organizations, including such large companies as Gazprombank, VTB 24 (PJSC), OJSC AKB ROSBANK;
              Payment system "Universal Electronic Card" ("UEC" PRO100), the integrated network of which includes more than 500 thousand terminals and ATMs, including cash dispensing and payment services Sberbank of Russia OJSC, Bank of Moscow OJSC, St. Petersburg Bank OJSC, Uralsib Bank OJSC, AK BARS BANK OJSC.



              Enough "for the eyes and for the ears" and the Crimeans and Sevastopol residents

              Quote: Dym71
              bottom of the reasons why Sber is unpleasant.

              Until 2016, I was furious with Sberbank-online, that’s generally.
              And for this Mr. *** was paid more than $ 1, 000?
              moreover:

              Quote: Dym71
              Yes, I’ve been expecting nothing from them for a long time

              +
              I’m only afraid: the country’s state capitalists, precisely:

              1. opus
                opus 19 February 2016 00: 15
                +1
                Quote: Dym71
                (KB "First Express") managed to throw everything off on salaries and taxes.

                1. ATMs did not work, money could not be received.
                then at the ZP only AFTER the submission of the PP on the payment of personal income tax and social taxes
                The online bank (private traders) did not work the same: communal services, utilities did not pass.
                SAVED only the card, through tamplat
                2. All those who quickly transferred to the salary, to individual entrepreneurs, etc., give explanations "where necessary."
                It is understandable: the office did not pay any salaries for 5 years, and suddenly: 1-5 lyam for a salary. fool
                at a time when the bank is almost bankrupt. Articles to bring?
                3.Taxes also did not pass ("went on 31.12.2015/XNUMX/XNUMX, as a reorganization)
                4.By "KB Express"

                1. Mordvin 3
                  Mordvin 3 19 February 2016 01: 00
                  +2
                  I read your opuses, and realized that this bad person would not be enough to roll under the asphalt.
              2. severbob
                severbob 19 February 2016 05: 55
                0
                already crap
      3. Captain45
        Captain45 19 February 2016 03: 31
        0
        Quote: opus
        Sberbank’s IT expenses in 2014 amounted to about 65 billion rubles, told Sberbank First Deputy Chairman Lev Khasis.

        About how! wassat This thing will be steeper than Serdyukovsky cut since everything is done at the expense of the SB investor funds! belay Your affairs are wonderful, German Oskarovich lol
        1. Pilat2009
          Pilat2009 19 February 2016 21: 53
          0
          Quote: Captain45
          Oh how! wassat This thing will be steeper than Serdyukovsky cut since everything is done at the expense of the SB investor funds!

          The net profit of Sberbank of Russia according to Russian Accounting Standards (RAS) at the end of 2014 fell by 19% - to 305,7 billion rubles

          Depositors have nothing to do with profit - they will not receive it, shareholders will receive it, and investors will receive 8% per annum, less than in any commercial bank
    5. Captain45
      Captain45 19 February 2016 03: 03
      0
      Quote: Dym71
      Wait and see. Rumors persist that Sberu in its current form, as the country's largest bank, did not have long to live.

      So it's time to transfer money to other banks what ? Glass? lol
  • RomanS
    RomanS 18 February 2016 22: 01
    +2
    Thanks to the author for a brief and understandable review. And you can’t run into Gref’s jerk. In early December, the Chinese with aliexpress stopped accepting payments if Crimea was specified as the recipient's address (despite the fact that China did not join the sanctions against Russia). The site required additional registration indicating personal data confirmed by a passport scan and a receipt for payment of com. services! If all this is done, then in a couple of weeks everything would return to normal. And the author is worried about Sberbank, here the whole China has bent over (and licked).
    1. cedar
      cedar 19 February 2016 14: 27
      +1
      Yes, there is something to marvel at .., China bent ...
      Who bent, this is an interesting question? And the answer may be interesting. The one who picked up, he bent, speaking more familiarly, who paid the one and ordered the music ..!
      Interestingly, at the Beijing airport there is still a sign to greet newcomers: "The Rothschilds welcome you" ..!?
  • Vita vko
    Vita vko 18 February 2016 22: 01
    +1
    The Soviet Union, and then Russia, has always paid great attention to military security. Of course it was a matter of survival. But all this was done at the expense of the quality of life, which directly depends on economic and financial security, and here we are still losing. The same stalemate is in education, which they are trying to bring to Western standards. And then we wonder why there are not enough engineers, and the industry is not competitive. It is one thing "Window to Europe" in which you can look from time to time and compare. It is quite different to turn the country into a gateway and a "dump of European values"
    1. aba
      aba 18 February 2016 22: 41
      0
      The Soviet Union, and then Russia, has always paid great attention to military security.

      Now, as you know, they are paying attention to the surplus, that is, making a profit for the majority (who are with money) - the rest a second time, protecting their alternate airfields, will surrender ANYTHING.
  • Kochegarkin
    Kochegarkin 18 February 2016 22: 05
    0
    Toli Putin merges us all. felts one of two ...
    don't shout at me so much ...
    now think for yourself - Nabiulina is a smart woman, but for how many years she has been driving our finances and will not steer us onto a more or less independent path ... Gref is clearly not di ... l ... does not allow the BRF to disappear in a debt hole The FRS and the US National Assembly, but all one thing does not take any, visible today, steps to get out of the dead loop of the banking system of Russia ... and - the guarantor signifies and sees all this, but does not want to change them, if only because it is not whom, if only because the question cannot - and who is stopping him? the answer suggests itself. that is, a number of answers - comrades from that very US (Great Britan) or our liberal traders (that they sold their homelands a long time ago), although maybe both at once?
    I’ll all go to vote for Putin and the Communist Party, but Gref and Nabiulina I would have sent to the nightingales, and I’ve also shot Tolik-Ryzhiy, the Minister-shot ... and a dozen more figures ...
    IMHO!
  • Corvetkapitan
    Corvetkapitan 18 February 2016 22: 06
    +8
    If Gref is so smart, why didn’t he withdraw Sberbank’s money from Ukraine before the Maydans stopped paying on loans received from Sberbank of Russia ?! I didn’t withdraw, it means not smart, the bank suffered losses, and if not smart, then there is nothing to be clever.
    1. opus
      opus 18 February 2016 22: 37
      +8
      Quote: Corvetkapitan
      I didn’t deduce, then not smart

      you can’t say by his salary:

      From January 1 of this year, German Gref will be paid a salary of 950 rubles per month (an agreement between the bank, its president and chairman of the board).

      In addition, "by a special decision of the Supervisory Board to the President, Chairman of the Management Board ... based on the results of work for the year, additional remuneration can be established, the amount of which should not exceed 0,075% of the net profit of Sberbank of Russia".
      / Net profit of Sberbank for the first 10 months of 2015 under RAS amounted to 178,3 billion rubles /
      Those.
      (0,075 / 100) * 12 * 178,3 billion rubles / 10 = 0,16047 billion rubles.
      I TRANSLATE: 160 470 000,00 rubles of annual bonus
      Modestly so

      The so-called "Golden Parachute" in case of unscheduled departure of German Gref from the post of head of Sberbank amounts to 13 million 750 thousand rubles.
      mu ** k ("I'm sorry Lord")
      Well, what is the difference from?

      1. Corvetkapitan
        Corvetkapitan 19 February 2016 00: 06
        +3
        The fact that Gref did not deprive himself is understandable. But Sberbank under his leadership suffered losses, because Gref did not withdraw Sberbank money from Ukraine, which does not pay Sberbank on previously issued loans. This suggests that Gref is not smart. He is just arrogant. Chubais is an outspoken thief, and if a change of power takes place in Russia, Chubais will only have to flee abroad, but will not have time, so he will end. He stole ten executions, but one is enough for him.
        1. opus
          opus 19 February 2016 00: 24
          +3
          Quote: Corvetkapitan
          that Gref did not withdraw Sberbank’s money from Ukraine, which does not pay Sberbank on previously issued loans.

          1.There is not only money
          and not only at the Security Council



          In April 2015, the American rating agency Standard & Poor's assessed the aggregate risks of the largest Russian banks in Ukraine 23-25 ​​billion dollars. Of these, $ 8 billion is loans from Russian banks to Ukrainian subsidiaries. and $ 15-17 billion - loans to Ukrainian companies and individuals.


          Igor Lapin, a deputy from the Popular Front:

          Sberbank of Russia is selling its assets in Ukraine. Another victory over Putin’s occupation business. They do not belong in Ukraine from the first day of the war in the East, but, finally, the first steps have been taken ",
          Igor Lapin-lol, see item 3

          2. Sberbank of Russia in Ukraine, until 2007 had the name NRB-Ukraine, provides services to individuals and legal entities. Sberbank of Russia is also a member of the Association of Ukrainian Banks. Sberbank of Russia belongs to the group of banks included in foreign banking groups.

          http://www.sberbank.ua/
          It would be better if he called himself SBU

          PJSC SBERBANK - Ukrainian commercial Bank
          https://www.sberbank.ua/bank_today/
          3. Didn't bring it out?
          Ha ha ha
          Assets of the Subsidiary Bank of Sberbank of Russia (Kiev) for 9 months of 2015 increased by 15,3%, to 53,748 billion hryvnia, according to the bank's quarterly reporting.
  • akula
    akula 18 February 2016 22: 16
    +2
    We are not slaves, slaves are not we ????????
  • poacher
    poacher 18 February 2016 22: 17
    +5
    we feed our enemy ourselves ... what is said in the saying, about his own and another’s army? No analogies?
  • Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 18 February 2016 22: 21
    +4
    Well, even in the "Protocols ..." it is written that you do not need to fight with the whole world, in order to control it, for this it is enough to "control" money. And to manage money, you need: first of all, get rid of their "depersonalization" and introduce an attractive, "single" currency controlled by one authority and then get rid of "cash" money and whoop, the whole world "dances to your tune" and no wars and conquests. What is happening now: the financial backstage first of all forced the world to get rid of gold as an impersonal payment system and forced it to switch to "convertible" currencies controlled by this backstage, then, in the next step, they will ban, in general, "cash" money in order to completely bring it under their control the life of any person and that's all for you "full world control" -wanted and, "without leaving the office," by pressing a couple of buttons on the computer, "erased" any person from the "base", deprived him of his livelihood, etc.!
  • Simon
    Simon 18 February 2016 22: 23
    +3
    Interesting girls are dancing. Will there be something?)))))))))))))))
    And it seems that our banks no longer belong to Russia! Like this request Uncle Sam intercepted everything, thanks to our liberals. bully Now the problem is how to get everything back in place! recourse
  • Volzhanin
    Volzhanin 18 February 2016 22: 24
    +6
    With gref incomprehensibility, as with red beast. It seems that both are open explicit enemies of the Russian people and Russian statehood, but they are not planted and, on the contrary, poorly fed. Paradox!
    Putin’s image is undermined by them unprecedentedly.
    1. Corvetkapitan
      Corvetkapitan 19 February 2016 00: 14
      +1
      This is true. Putin talks a lot about the fight against corruption, but there is no real business. Gref, Chubais and others are a vivid example of this.
  • samarin1969
    samarin1969 18 February 2016 22: 26
    +3
    As a resident of the "newfound territory", I am doubly unpleasant that Gref invested shareholders' money (including the state) in the business of Turkey and Ukraine. This "professional" continued to pump finance into Ukrainian subsidiary banks under the rumble of guns near Slavyansk.
    I have been waiting for a similar article "on the sovereignty of Russia" for a long time. Many thanks to the author for the style and facts.
  • Papapg
    Papapg 18 February 2016 22: 26
    0
    An interesting fact is that ISIS, wishing to destroy America, probably does not know where the servers with information of the banking system are located, which imposed a dollar on the world, but kept the printing press at home.
  • valent45
    valent45 18 February 2016 22: 26
    +5
    While the liberals in our power and in large commercial structures, nothing will change. 5th column.
    Radical measures are needed here. It is not clear only why they put in charge of essentially state
    commercial structures, such as Sberbank, people of clearly liberal views, which back in the 90s
    didn’t show their best side? In fact, thieves, crooks, grabbers and other rabble from the 90s
    remained at the top of the state.
    1. Corvetkapitan
      Corvetkapitan 19 February 2016 00: 15
      +2
      These are not liberals, they are frankly `` sent Cossacks ''
  • asiat_61
    asiat_61 18 February 2016 22: 32
    +3
    However, everyone caved in, and the Duma quickly passed the law and the president. So about non-addiction, these are all words to the public.
    1. dzeredzavkomimu
      dzeredzavkomimu 18 February 2016 22: 54
      +1
      I agree, what kind of independence are we talking about? When almost all our parliamentarians, businessmen and ministers live over the hill and their children study there, and they only fly to Russia for meetings, I won’t be surprised if Putin lives permanently somewhere .. not with us. .))) as his daughters
  • dzeredzavkomimu
    dzeredzavkomimu 18 February 2016 22: 49
    +1
    I read in the contact that our smart citizens are not paying loans, found a loophole - that if our bank has external influence or management from the United States, then they will not pay the debt to this bank, because it will look legally-like state support that introduced sanctions, that is, in fact, support for a hostile state, and this is a criminal offense. What can I say?
    1. opus
      opus 19 February 2016 01: 31
      +2
      Quote: dzeredzavkomimu
      I read in a contact that our smart citizens are not paying loans, found a loophole - that if our bank has external influence or management from the United States, then they will not pay debt to this bank, because it will look legally - as the state introduced sanctions

      No, this is not true.
      1. Only if war
      2. "Influence from the USA" does not mean that the bank in the Russian Federation (or part of the shares) belongs to the US GOVERNMENT?
      3. If it belonged to the US government, then ...
      But this law failed in April 2015 (the Communists suggested)
      --------------------------
      But they can "screw up" for us (well, they crap)
      Many loans and credits (taken by our banks, companies, constituent entities of the Russian Federation, etc.) contain special conditions - covenants- meaning that "in case of a sharp deterioration financial position of the borrower and / or countryin whose jurisdiction the borrower is located (in this case, Russia), the lender (creditor) has the right to demand that the borrower repay the entire amount of the debt. "
  • Yuri VO
    Yuri VO 18 February 2016 22: 49
    0
    Life is not complicated as we think, it is even more complicated ...
  • dzeredzavkomimu
    dzeredzavkomimu 18 February 2016 22: 55
    0
    bl.kak it all ost ...... lo, I will vote for Zyuganov
  • Villon
    Villon 18 February 2016 22: 58
    0
    And why not demand that our tax services be given information about Russian citizens who have accounts with American banks. It would be logical.
    1. Fat
      Fat 19 February 2016 01: 06
      +1
      Quote: Villon
      And why not demand that our tax services be given information about Russian citizens who have accounts with American banks. It would be logical.

      Logically, yes.
      1. But bad questions arise, to which it is scary to get answers ... it's like "I'll kiss you, then, if you want" (c) Brandon Thomas. Aunt Charlie.
      2. Who will check and guarantee that the "info" received will not be misleading ...
      3. It is not a fact that the relevant services of the Russian Federation do not have such information
      4. How, within the framework of the laws of the Russian Federation, to use this information to accuse "villains".
      5. ask yourself the question which of the "residents" can act outside the framework of the law of the Russian Federation on its territory ...
  • _umka_
    _umka_ 18 February 2016 23: 11
    +5
    The bankers are to blame for all our troubles !!!
    1. Corvetkapitan
      Corvetkapitan 19 February 2016 00: 17
      +1
      I agree. Hucksters are ready to sell both the people and the state.
  • atamankko
    atamankko 18 February 2016 23: 14
    +1
    I don’t understand anything in finances, but the fifth point
    I feel that something is wrong here.
  • passenger
    passenger 18 February 2016 23: 36
    +1
    Americans really consider themselves an exclusive nation, since they demand the execution of THEIR laws by other INDEPENDENT countries
  • oxana_iv
    oxana_iv 18 February 2016 23: 40
    +1
    Many thanks to the author for the competent review, in human language and with humor. True, I would also like to hear an opinion on the planned privatization of Sberbank.
    But even without this, the thought awakens)))
    1. Fat
      Fat 19 February 2016 00: 53
      0
      While the privatization of the Savings Bank, according to Gref, is not expected. See the net yourself ...
  • gamer
    gamer 18 February 2016 23: 53
    +2
    Earlier, in an interview with German journalists, Mr. Gref even more clearly stated that from the point of view of the global financial system, Crimea is Ukrainian territory !!! After these words drive him, bastard, wed .... oh broom!
  • red_october
    red_october 18 February 2016 23: 56
    0
    Well, at least let the Rossiya bank in Crimea, and so it is under sanctions. Let him at least put ATMs and serve Crimeans.
    1. samarin1969
      samarin1969 19 February 2016 01: 47
      +1
      "Russia" has been operating for two years now, only few branches and ATMs
      1. afdjhbn67
        afdjhbn67 19 February 2016 02: 12
        -2
        Quote: samarin1969
        "Russia" for two years

        The Rottenberg bank showed "patriotism" and that's all - pleased the Greatest ... it's no secret if a bank enters the region, how mushrooms grow branches and ATMs .. profanity and a set of nonsense ..
  • 416494
    416494 19 February 2016 00: 00
    0
    The article is simply a throw-in to whip up discontent among the masses. It seems to me that everyone just needs to read about all the banks of Russia and the Central Bank and the bank and other large state financial organizations and draw the conclusion to whom they are subordinate and to whom they belong, and not to trust any one article and on the basis of it, draw conclusions. By the way, this or a similar article has been surfing the Internet for a long time. All Russian banks are joint-stock, with state participation at 50% + 1 voting share, and all trade in shares on exchanges and naturally have foreign shareholders, but that's okay this is not, since the state package is not participating in the bidding.
  • Neko75
    Neko75 19 February 2016 00: 00
    0
    It is necessary to launch your payment system.
    1. Erg
      Erg 19 February 2016 00: 04
      +1
      We’ll start soon. But it will be controlled by the Fed. Well it can't be any different. Understand. I myself am not happy with this situation.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. cedar
      cedar 19 February 2016 15: 00
      +1
      You really have the brain made such a foul avatar to choose and even put it here! Shame on the feat of victory of our fathers and grandfathers will not give! Zgin!
    4. cedar
      cedar 21 February 2016 17: 19
      +1
      You really have the brain made such a foul avatar to choose and even put it here! Shame on the feat of victory of our fathers and grandfathers will not give! Zgin!
  • Erg
    Erg 19 February 2016 00: 01
    0
    It seems to me that many do not understand what ... ... we are. Thanks to Misha and Boris. We are completely dependent on the Fed. It can slam our economy down with a flick of the hand. Why doesn't she do it? It's simple. As soon as our "leaders" lose everything they have stolen from the people, they will have only one way out - the "iron curtain" and dictatorship. And the Fed knows it ... So as long as this "symbiosis" exists, everything will be quiet. We sleep well wassat
    1. Stanislas
      Stanislas 21 February 2016 10: 34
      0
      Quote: Erg
      our "leaders" will lose everything they stole from the people
      Have you seen enough BBC movies?
  • Bakht
    Bakht 19 February 2016 00: 24
    +3
    Another thing is interesting. Just realized now? So no law and other attributes are needed. How are salaries paid to the military, police and other civil servants in the Russian Federation? Everything in Azerbaijan goes through bank cards in Azerbaijan. And all of them are either VISA or Master Card. I assure you that the States are well aware of the numbers, surnames, positions and salaries of all the country's power structures. Perhaps the numbers of military units.

    In the Russian Federation, its own payment system is just being introduced. And before? So the new laws do not change anything in principle. The system is debugged. Country independence is a tricky thing. And you need to chop, despite the sanctions. Or put up.
  • Erg
    Erg 19 February 2016 00: 28
    +1
    Our oligarchs are, in fact, six Illuminati and provide them with control over the resources of Russia, thereby preserving their condition (mainly abroad). There are two ways out (for the people) of the situation - either a dictatorship or a long path of reform.
  • glasha3032
    glasha3032 19 February 2016 00: 39
    +1
    The discussion is heated. There are a lot of clever speeches. But it’s still not clear whether Crimea should be considered Russian land. If Gref is not fired (not shot) and the President of the Russian Federation did not disavow his speeches, said nothing to us ordinary citizens 7 To be proud that our Crimea is, or silently silent in a rag?
  • lopvlad
    lopvlad 19 February 2016 00: 44
    +1
    Americans, for example, have no difficulty finding any reason to use the provisions of Law No. 173 to get information about any Russian enterprise and, if they wish, to block oxygen, because the banks through which it conducts its operations are controlled from overseas.

    without hysteria. If this were so, the Russian army would not have received new weapons now, the fleet would have ships and the VKS planes.
  • Fat
    Fat 19 February 2016 00: 47
    0
    Well, now the "mechanism" of keeping European countries and their leaders behind the "Faberge" is clear. Hopefully, the schemes to counter the "extraterritorial" rules are being worked out.
  • SG11
    SG11 19 February 2016 00: 47
    0
    already sent. questionnaire, questionnaire and some other h.ren. Novopokrovsky bank, with whom I broke up 2 years ago. moreover, they sent in the form of a cat in a bag to the post office, where they had to stand in line for almost an hour - for this bag. write to them, chtoli cha? more challenging
  • lopvlad
    lopvlad 19 February 2016 00: 52
    +1
    Quote: glasha3032
    but it’s not clear whether to consider Crimea-Russian land


    What has changed for you after the article? or you didn’t know that there is only one world financial system in the world and it is based on the dollar, which means that any organization that conducts international financial activities is part of this system (even while China).

    Our Crimea as there is only one of our army and one of our fleet.
    1. glasha3032
      glasha3032 19 February 2016 15: 19
      0
      Our Crimea is only because our army and navy are standing there? But the referendum, changes in the Constitution, finally the opinion and feelings of the Russians - do not count? This is a serious matter, it is called in Russian - Putin and Gref merged Crimea! After all, it was somehow possible to dodge VTB only for settlements with foreign countries, Sberbank for domestic ones. And it smells like a quiet betrayal - when the country's leaders do not consider part of their country to be their own. Can you trust them?
  • Undermined ustoev
    Undermined ustoev 19 February 2016 01: 07
    +3
    Quote: Ami du peuple
    And I have something. It is necessary to abandon the dominance of the dollar in our economy - let the yuan be, at least.

    Do you offer an awl for soap change? Today, China is a friend, and tomorrow, through ebonite pipes, thousands of Chinese yuan will creep into homes and tie everyone’s hands and feet together like a buck. Then they will start, like the Yusovites, to pull the strings. Do you want this? I definitely don’t.
    Quote: Ami du peuple
    Only with the current government the likelihood of such a development of events tends to zero.

    Who is our ruling class? Who is oppressed? Answer these two simple questions and continue to pour out snot on the forum instead of real actions: the introduction / creation of social movements that defend the interests of the oppressed class and then the situation will begin to change, but not like before. It is clear that it is better to be a generalissimo on topvar than a free lawyer for workers, who, for example, was Ulyanov, an exile to Siberia. To work and build when you are constantly pressured is much more difficult than to show obvious things on behalf of the proletariat under the guise of a piff. You deserve to be had 24/7 without taking it out. Cons in agreement, do not forget to throw.
    1. asiat_61
      asiat_61 19 February 2016 05: 03
      0
      This one did not win a single process. Russia is not Egypt.
  • 31rus
    31rus 19 February 2016 01: 08
    +1
    Dear, it doesn’t bother me, it will be my data or it won’t be in the United States that it changes, but it was the officials who created this system, so why be surprised that in Russia it is already accepted that no one is responsible for anything, so what’s stirring up the water ? There is no banking system in Russia, there is a society of Rastavshikov, robbing both the state and the people, they do not care about the first and even more so the second, if only there were money
  • rvn69
    rvn69 19 February 2016 01: 08
    +1
    But we don’t care, but we don’t care ... We magically mow the grass.
    PS Keep the money in a three-liter jar.
    1. asiat_61
      asiat_61 19 February 2016 05: 04
      0
      Where do they get a three-liter?
  • Abakan
    Abakan 19 February 2016 01: 52
    0
    not the topic)) but crests harness

    A bill was introduced in the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine that proposes to prohibit the use of the word "Russia" and its derivatives in relation to the country, RNS reports.

    It is noted that the document proposes to rename Russia to Muscovy.

    The document also says that the name "Russia" is "the historical heritage of Ukraine."

    “The historical name of the territory of Ukraine is the unofficial verbal name of the modern territory of Ukraine, which is associated with a certain period of development of Ukrainian society and has important historical significance for Ukraine. The historical name of the territory of Ukraine in this law refers to the verbal name "Rus" and its derivative "Russia", the document says.


    It is specified that the initiator of the bill is the deputy from the Radical Party Oksana Korchinskaya.

    Earlier, the National Broadcasting Council of Ukraine appealed to the National Security and Defense Council (NSDC) with the proposal to impose sanctions against 38 legal entities of Russia that own the largest federal television and radio stations.
    1. Captain45
      Captain45 19 February 2016 03: 53
      0
      Quote: Abakan
      A bill was introduced in the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine that proposes to prohibit the use of the word "Russia" and its derivatives in relation to the country, RNS reports.

      DBL / BLT fool (c) S. Lavrov
  • kinoluh
    kinoluh 19 February 2016 02: 40
    0
    a Gref, bastard, to Magadan !!!
  • Red_Hamer
    Red_Hamer 19 February 2016 03: 20
    0
    Gref has long said everything, conclusions could be made a hundred times, type a video on YouTube

    "Banker German Gref - Herman GREF - Kabbalah, Power and Common People".

    And even more interesting here

    "Posner - German Gref interview about people, about Sberbank, economy, politics"

    And then draw conclusions about what lies at the heart of "exclusivity"! And who we now have in key positions in politics, economics, culture and the media. No offense, they all speak in plain text.
    1. asiat_61
      asiat_61 19 February 2016 05: 07
      0
      Generally, Sin is an accountant by education, my dear accountant .. and hereinafter.
  • Captain45
    Captain45 19 February 2016 03: 59
    0
    Quote: Red_Hamer
    Gref has long said everything, conclusions could be made a hundred times, type a video on YouTube
    "Banker German Gref - Herman GREF - Kabbalah, Power and Common People".
    And even more interesting here
    "Posner - German Gref interview about people, about Sberbank, economy, politics"
    And then draw conclusions about what lies at the heart of "exclusivity"! And who we now have in key positions in politics, economics, culture and the media. No offense, they all speak in plain text.

    Or maybe, as the "Crimean woman, the daughter of an officer" said, "not everything is so simple," and it's just a big screen behind which completely different things are happening? what
  • hartlend
    hartlend 19 February 2016 04: 55
    0
    Well, the author’s nickname.
  • EvgNik
    EvgNik 19 February 2016 05: 58
    0
    Everyone can relax and calm down. Putin heard and understood Gref. A bank is created based on the Russian Post. There will be a purely Russian bank, without foreign capital. I heard about the idea of ​​creating such a bank, but today at "24 hours" they talked about it as a settled matter.
  • Neophyte
    Neophyte 19 February 2016 06: 32
    +2
    Chubais, Kudrin, Gref and others? Have they chided and recommended to continue their "stormy" activities? All is well, wonderful marquis!