Military Review

Totskie teachings 1954g. and security measures taken

102
The development and deployment of tactical nuclear munitions (TNBMs) in the USSR and the USA led to the need for practical development of methods for their use. TYABP planned organically fit into the scheme of combined arms combat, using primarily as a means of suppressing fortified enemy defenses. At the same time, the advancing troops were to skillfully use the consequences of a nuclear strike, while not exposing their lives to danger. Created at the dawn of the nuclear era, the methodological guidelines for conducting such a battle had a significant drawback: they were built solely on theoretical fabrications. But as you know, theory without practice is dead. Very soon there was a need to conduct a practical development of theories in the course of real combined-arms exercises.


The first such exercises were held by the United States of America. 1 November 1951, at the Nevada test site, the Buster Dog exercises were conducted, during which a nuclear warhead with a capacity of 21 CT was detonated. At a distance of about 11 kilometers from the epicenter were the troops, separate units which carried out after the explosion forced marches approximately 1 km from the epicenter. Subsequently, 7 similar exercises were conducted with the code names "Desert Rock". The last exercises were especially large-scale, during which dozens of nuclear charges were blown up within a few weeks.

In the Soviet Union, despite a similar need practical verification of theoretical instruction, it was carried out only 2 such teachings: on Totsky range in g 1954 and 1956 in Semipalatinsk was being carefully secretive during the Soviet era, they became known to the public only at the end of perestroika . Unfortunately, detailed, impartial descriptions of the course of the exercises appeared much later, and the first newspaper articles relied solely on rumors and individual memories, and therefore were written in the key of another horror story. However, the situation has changed little so far about the scientists write in the majority of cases, in a negative way: "macabre experiments on soldiers and civilians," "thousands of victims" (if not on the spot, in the early years), "thousands of square .kilometry, contaminated radiation. " Only with the advent of a detailed description of these teachings directly from the test, prepared the exercises, it was possible to objectively consider the course of events and to assess the security measures taken.

Now we can safely say that during these exercises command and scientists have made every effort to ensure the safety (as do nuclear doctrine may be safe). In the course of the exercise, which took place clearly according to the plan, minimal (virtually zero) damage was caused to the health of all participants and the local population. That security was put at the forefront - it follows from all the details. We illustrate this with the example of the Tokyo exercises 14 September 1954.

As is known, nuclear weapon (NF) affects the surrounding area with a shock wave, light radiation, penetrating radiation, and also infects nearby territory with the products of radioactive decay (there is also electromagnetic radiation, but in this context it is not significant). The air wave, light cure and penetrating radiation act only at the time of the explosion and it is easy to defend against them with the help of fortifications and removal from the epicenter. Infection of the surrounding area is mainly determined by the nature of the explosion. During the Totsky exercises was undermined aviation NSF with an equivalent capacity of about 40 thousand tons of TNT. The most important thing to say about this explosion was that it was airborne (the height of the blasting was 350 meters with a power of 40 kt [1]).

The fact is that during air explosions the contamination of the surrounding area is minimized. When a ground or surface explosion in the so-called "luminous region" is drawn into the heavy dust from the ground, on which light highly radioactive decay products settle. Because dust particles are heavy enough, they immediately begin to settle down - both in the area of ​​the explosion and along the route of the cloud from the epicenter itself. The background is heavy and will last very long. At low air nuclear explosion dust rises from the ground, but is within range of the explosion too late to massively connect with radioactive products of an explosion. Most of this dust in the uninfected state falls in the epicentral region, and the radioactive cloud is carried away by an explosion. Since the particles are mostly light, the cloud there is a much longer period of time and is scattered over a much larger area than at ground explosions, with short-lived radioactive decay products directly in the cloud as part of the air blast clouds. Thus, the specific amount of fallen radioactive products per square kilometer of trace is very small and only in the 20 – 30 area of ​​km from the epicenter can radioactivity slightly exceed the natural background of the terrain. The radiation epicenter area immediately after the explosion may be 1-50 roentgens per hour 0 2000-m distance (for blast 40 kt) due to the influence of penetrating radiation on soil in blasting. Formed in this soil isotopes have a basically short half-life, calculated by minutes, so that the radiation level is significantly reduced already during the first hours. Thus, the radioactive contamination during Totsky teachings was weak and the danger is only the epicentral area immediately after the blast.

Totskie teachings 1954g. and security measures taken


Modern descriptions of the preparation and conduct of the Totsky exercises allow us to state: ensuring the safety of people and equipment was considered one of the most important tasks. It is enough to say that the maximum permissible infection rates were underestimated by 4 times for the personnel and equipment participating in the exercises. Theoretical training of officers and soldiers was sufficient. Back in 1953, the troops received instructions on the conduct of hostilities in the context of the use of nuclear munitions. Army leadership and fleet Secret films shot at the training grounds were shown - real nuclear explosions.

In principle, the main characteristics of the explosion were known in advance on the basis of previous tests. However, almost all visible multiple reinsurance. Allowable infection rates were understated. For the most part, the troops were farther than 7,5 km from the epicenter of the explosion, with all the personnel in the trenches. Shallow part forces, located in 5 km from the epicenter is in the closed trenches [2], although such power blast at a specified distance just enough to lie feet epicenter tightly closed eyes palms. Fortification defense personnel was obviously excessive: in bunkers safely in 800 meters from the epicenter sorokakilotonnogo TYABP, in the trenches - a mile.

The radiation levels in the epicentral area were well known to the designers of nuclear weapons from the data of previous field tests. Despite this, a radiation-measuring "neutral" team was sent to the epicenter on specially equipped tanks... Only this team was in the contaminated zone of more than 25 R per hour, and only this team could theoretically receive any noticeable dose of radiation. However, the armor reduces the radiation level by at least 5 times (that is, the vehicles had no more than 3-10 roentgens / hour), and the team was in the zone "more than 25 R / h" for less than half an hour (a safe dose for l / s it is considered that no more than 50 roentgens are received within one day, radiation sickness of mild severity develops with a one-time receipt of 100-200 roentgens). The team marked the zones "more than 25 R / h", "0.5–25 R / h," 0.1–0.5 R / h "with special flags. Subsequently, the "advancing" troops were guided by these flags. It should be noted that the troops passed through the terrain two hours after the neutral command, that is, the radiation on the terrain decreased and was less than it was marked by flags (which was confirmed by the military radiation reconnaissance).



Certain requirements were imposed on the weather. Clear allowed. The permissible wind directions were chosen so that the radioactive cloud passed through the neutral zone between the troops, and then the nearby settlements passed. On the day of the exercise, the weather met all the requirements.

Carefully fulfilled the aviation issue, eliminating the lining. The crew of the Tu-4 has previously carried out the actual bombing of the Semipalatinsk test site. The bomber carrier had to follow a well-defined route, bypassing major settlements. On the route he was accompanied by a second bomber and two fighters who, in addition to guards, also secured the navigator of the aircraft carrier. With the carrier provided continuous radio communication. The route in the dumping area (with the bomb hole already open) passed along the neutral strip between the troops in order to rule out accidental dropping of ammunition on the head of the troops. Because the zone “with an open bomb bay” was significant and passed over some settlements, then the population was removed from all these points. The bombing was carried out from the second approach, the target was marked visually and reflective corners, which made it possible to focus on the radar.

Great importance was given to the fact of high-altitude blasting, as well as the accuracy of bombing. If the deviation from the target would be more 500 meters (in reality turned 250m), or undermine would occur at a height much less 350 meters (in reality turned out just about 350m), the teachings immediately interrupted and would be carried out emergency evacuation of troops and the population, to which had been created in advance special evacuation team. Compliance with the height was necessary to ensure minor radiation contamination of the area.



For some time before the explosion of the troops was given a signal "Chemical alarm" in which staff had to wear a gas mask, cape, gloves and stockings. Ten minutes before the reset TYABP the troops was given a signal "Nuclear Emergency", in which staff took refuge in bunkers and trenches and armored crews took place in combat vehicles and battened down the hatches. In fact, no one in the troops saw the explosion. After the subsequent artillery preparation and radiation reconnaissance, the troops of the "eastern" began an offensive. Three hours later, they almost reached the epicenter area of ​​the explosion. We passed through this area only 5 45% of the thousands of the movement carried out in armored vehicles (or inside it). Movement speed - 5 km / h, the closest to the epicenter of the unit - 10 km / h. The troops focused on the symbols placed by the radiation team and on their own radiometric means. There was a strict ban on entry into the area indicated by "more 25 P / h," although in fact the radiation positions ahead of the next troop columns, recorded only 0.1 P / h at 400 meters from the epicenter. It is not surprising - a lot of time has passed, the radiation was rapidly declining.

Through 6 hours after entering the area of ​​infection has begun full decontamination equipment, washing of the personnel and a complete change of clothing. Prior to this, the troops were partially decontaminated and sanitized. The next day, the command personnel of the subunits were driven to the epicenter of the explosion, at the epicenter point the background was less than 10 P / h.

The information provided allows an approximate assessment of possible damage to personnel in the course of the exercise. Firstly, at the time of the blast, the personnel were in shelters at a considerable distance from the epicenter, which means that neither light radiation, nor shock wave, nor penetrating radiation acted on it. Secondly, since the explosion was airborne, there was very little radiation contamination of the area. Third, since the forces entered in the epicenter area only through 3 hours, and radioactive contamination was caused by soil activated isotopes, different small half-life thus obtained fighters dose was small. This is also determined by the short residence time of troops in the zone of infection and the presence of armored vehicles. After the end of the exercise, thorough decontamination of the equipment was carried out and washing of l / s with a change of clothes, which, coupled with the small dose received, ensured that the fighters received a real dose below the norm.

Based on the stated facts, it can be stated that the personnel entering the epicentral area (5% of the total number of servicemen), in fact, did not undergo any of the damaging factors of a nuclear explosion.

Totsky training ground was located in a populated area, as a result of which it was necessary to ensure the safety of civilians. The point of detonation was chosen so that there were as few villages as possible. The terrain was divided into several zones. From the zone "of less than 8 km" and zone "flight of the carrier to open bomb doors" population was evacuated for at least 15 km from the explosion. In the remaining zones, the population was taken out of the houses and either hid in ravines and gorges, or lay down on the ground away from the houses, or remained in houses in full readiness for evacuation (these are very remote villages). A few days before the exercise of all the settlements arrived instructors, explained in detail the methods of ensuring security during the exercise. During the exercises in each village were instructors, ensuring the implementation of safety requirements, as well as fire departments (in some places had to work - lit up the forest and the roof).

In case of emergency of the situation (the epicenter of a strong deviation from the target or low-altitude undermining) the population had to be evacuated to safe areas. For this, an evacuation plan was developed, and special units provided with vehicles were prepared. Dosimetric posts were deployed in settlements. civilian decontamination points separate medical battalion, reinforced by local hospitals and aid stations have been deployed. Residents of the nearby zone (less than 8 km) were later asked to either return to their homes to receive compensation, or move to new apartment buildings built in remote locations [3].

Thus, all necessary measures were taken to ensure the safety of the civilian population, and actions were taken in case of an emergency. During the exercise, the local population was not affected.


In the autumn of 1991, in the wake of publicity, a commission was formed at the request of a deputy, which conducted work on the assessment of the radiation-hygienic situation at the venue of the Totsk exercise. The Commission made the following findings:

“1. In all localities Totskii, Buzuluk, Sorochinsk areas radiation situation defined by the normal natural background and is safe for the population.
2. According to a retrospective assessment of the situation, the estimated radiation doses could not have an impact on the health status of the population living in the surveyed areas.
3. Health of the population in the surveyed areas currently on the basic health and demographic characteristics correspond to the average regional indicators, including cancer incidence and congenital anomalies, and do not exceed those in the control areas of the region and the RSFSR »[4]

In the 1994, in the framework of the program of work on the preparation of the joint peacekeeping exercises site survey exercises conducted a joint Russian-American group. In the course of its work, the commission measured the gamma-radiation power of air and soil samples. From the measurements it was found that "the dose rate of gamma radiation in the epicentral area of ​​the air nuclear explosion carried out by 14.09.1954 was, and control points on the Totsky range did not exceed 20 mR / h, which ... is in the range of variations of the natural background radiation" [4]

[1] Nuclear Tests of the USSR, ed. Tagirova VM Sarov. IPK VNIIEF. 1997. C. 247
[2] Nuclear Tests of the USSR, ed. Tagirova VM Sarov. IPK VNIIEF. 1997. C. 239 – 240
[3] Nuclear Tests of the USSR, ed. Tagirova VM Sarov. IPK VNIIEF. 1997. C. 250 – 255
[4] Nuclear tests: a scientific journalistic monograph on general. ed. V.N. Mikhailov. S.A. Zelencov. Totsky military doctrine http://www.iss.niiit.ru/ksenia/tockoe/6.htm
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  1. Fitter65
    Fitter65 21 February 2016 08: 45
    +6
    But what about Hundreds of those who died under the explosion, and thousands who died afterwards in hospitals ... Whoever believed in this nonsense will still believe it, even if they count the stake on their head ...
    1. atalef
      atalef 21 February 2016 13: 16
      +4
      Quote: Fitter65
      But what about Hundreds of those who died under the explosion, and thousands who died afterwards in hospitals ... Whoever believed in this nonsense will still believe it, even if they count the stake on their head ...

      My ex-mother-in-law is from Totsk (more precisely, Sorochinsk or Sorochin, or something like that.).
      She told how it was.
      they were warned for 3 days, they were told to glue paper windows crosswise ... and that’s all.
      The time of the explosion was not reported, they said to sit in the drm.
      And how do you sit at home in the village? Cattle, garden, well.
      In general, the mushroom exploded. The windows poked.
      But not this problem. The people began to get sick.
      Her older brother died of leukemia after 3 years. after the test. Maybe of course a coincidence, only a lot of them were like that.
      This is what she was telling.
      1. V.ic
        V.ic 21 February 2016 15: 36
        0
        Quote: atalef
        more precisely Sorochinsk or Sorochin

        Could "walk" the city of Sorochinsk, Orenburg region.
      2. Baloo
        Baloo 21 February 2016 15: 37
        0
        I was in Totsk a few years ago, a program was broadcast on the local channel about the consequences. So in the city that was the closest to the loop zone, the incidence of oncology is still the highest in the Russian Federation, including and children’s. hi
        1. Svateev
          Svateev 21 February 2016 16: 19
          +4
          Quote: Balu
          in that city, which was the closest to the loop zone, the highest incidence of oncology in the Russian Federation is still the highest, including and children's

          Can you give the incidence figures? And then near the river Tech they say that they have the highest incidence of oncology in the country, and what they have near the Krasnoyarsk Combine, etc. etc. After all, we are not punished for lying, all the local "defenders" are squeezing tears and finances from the federal center. The radioactive background has returned to normal a long time ago, how do those tests affect modern children ?!
          Hiroshima began to be restored THROUGH 4 YEAR AFTER THE BOMBING, it was already possible to live there.
          1. Bongo
            Bongo 21 February 2016 16: 52
            +5
            Quote: Svateev
            Can you give the incidence figures? And then near the river Tech they say that they have the highest incidence of oncology in the country, and what they have near the Krasnoyarsk Combine, etc. etc. After all, we are not punished for lying, all the local "defenders" are squeezing tears and finances from the federal center. The radioactive background has returned to normal a long time ago, how do those tests affect modern children ?!
            Hiroshima began to be restored THROUGH 4 YEAR AFTER THE BOMBING, it was already possible to live there.

            But you are right yes
            A nuclear explosion produces a complex mixture of more than 200 radioactive isotopes of 36 elements (from zinc to gadolinium), the most active are short-lived radionuclides. So, after 7, 49 and 343 days after the explosion, the activity of the NAP decreases 10, 100 and 1000 times, respectively, compared with the activity one hour after the explosion. In addition to nuclear fission products, the radioactive contamination of the area is caused by radionuclides of induced activity and the scattered part of the nuclear charge, which did not take part in the fission reaction. During airborne nuclear explosions, 20-25% of fission products fall in the immediate vicinity. A part of the radionuclides is delayed in the lower part of the atmosphere and, under the influence of the wind, moves over long distances, remaining at approximately the same latitude. They can be in the air for about a month, gradually fall to Earth at a considerable distance from the point of explosion. The main part of the fission products formed during the air explosion is ejected into the stratosphere (to a height of 12-15 km), where they are globally dispersed and, to a large extent, decay.

            In the case of a ground-based nuclear explosion, radiation contamination of the area can be tens of times more. The greatest danger is nuclear strikes at existing nuclear power plants and enterprises in the nuclear industry, in which case radiation contamination of the area can have a catastrophic long-term nature.
            1. Baloo
              Baloo 21 February 2016 17: 11
              +2
              Open the school biology textbook, where about the cycle of substances in nature, then you will understand why the incidence of oncology will always be higher for a long, long time, regardless of the meter.
              1. Bongo
                Bongo 21 February 2016 17: 14
                +1
                Quote: Balu
                Open the school biology textbook, where about the cycle of substances in nature, then you will understand why the incidence of oncology will always be higher for a long, long time, regardless of the meter.

                My profile education is enough for me, in the framework of which I took a course on weapons of mass destruction, including the damaging factors of nuclear weapons. Fortunately, what you are talking about is not supported by statistics from numerous nuclear tests.
                1. Rivares
                  Rivares 21 February 2016 22: 39
                  +3
                  Quote: Bongo
                  My profile education is enough for me, in the framework of which I took a course on weapons of mass destruction, including the damaging factors of nuclear weapons. Fortunately, what you are talking about is not supported by statistics from numerous nuclear tests.

                  Then, if you took this course, remember the peaks of mortality in those irradiated after Hiroshima. If I remember correctly, those who are irradiated after 3-7 years die en masse from leukemia, after 15-30 years from tumors. Unfortunately I do not remember exactly, but mortality increases many times over many years after exposure!
                  1. Svateev
                    Svateev 23 February 2016 14: 54
                    +1
                    Quote: Rivares
                    If I remember correctly, those who have been irradiated through 3-7 years die en masse from leukemia, after 15-30 years from tumors.

                    A wonderful logical twist: "I don't remember exactly," but "they die en masse"!
                    The fact that at certain doses, mortality increases, no one disputes. But at what radiation doses does mortality increase? With the insignificant doses received by those participating in the Totsky exercises, is there an increase in mortality? We are discussing a specific article on security measures at the Totsky exercises!
                2. tundra
                  tundra 15 December 2016 09: 41
                  0
                  Quote: Bongo
                  Fortunately, what you are talking about is not supported by statistics from numerous nuclear tests.

                  Quote: Bongo
                  My profile education, in which I took a course on WMD, is enough for me

                  Well now, it’s like nuclear tests will not work.
                  And if you did, would you agree to live in the zone of infection? Would you give birth to children, go mushroom berries with children?
                  You are our educated with a specialized education,
                  ......... do not toss the bags.
              2. Svateev
                Svateev 21 February 2016 17: 19
                +1
                Quote: Balu
                Open the school biology textbook, where about the cycle of substances in nature, then you’ll understand

                That is, I have to find the argument against myself for you ?! Well, well done!
          2. Baloo
            Baloo 21 February 2016 16: 57
            +2
            Can you give the morbidity figures?
            I don’t remember the numbers, the interview was with one of the health leaders of this town.
            The incidence is higher not only from oncology, but also for example the thyroid gland, including and in children, including and congenital malformations. You can live everywhere, that's just how long. Are there many centenarians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Does everyone differ in excellent health?
            We had such an object as radiation hygiene, military hygiene, though it was a long time ago, in the USSR. So that...
            Jokes are bad with radiation, especially with the one that penetrates with food, water, and air. hi
            1. Bongo
              Bongo 21 February 2016 17: 03
              +4
              I'm sorry to interfere in your discussion, but you are not quite right in my opinion. request
              In Komsomolsk, despite the fact that nuclear tests have never been conducted, the level of cancer is much higher than the national average.
              Quote: Balu
              Are there many centenarians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki?

              In Japan, in general, there are many long-livers, including in the cities that have undergone nuclear bombing. A case in point is the Japanese Tsutomu Yamaguchi, who survived both nuclear bombings. On August 6, 1945, Tsutom Yamaguchi was 29 years old. He was in Hiroshima, about three kilometers from the epicenter of the explosion. His hair was burned, the left side of his face was burned, and the eardrum in his left ear burst. On August 8, he returned to Nagasaki, where he worked at the Mitsubishi shipyards and sought medical help at the hospital. And again fell under the nuclear bombardment. This time, he was almost not injured, but soon after the fires were extinguished, he rushed into the city to look for his missing relatives. During the search, Yamaguchi received large doses of radiation. However, Tsutomu Yamaguchi survived despite everything, he died on January 4, 2010 at the age of 93 in Nagasaki.
              1. Rivares
                Rivares 21 February 2016 22: 48
                +3
                Quote: Bongo
                An illustrative example is the Japanese Tsutomu Yamaguchi, who survived both nuclear bombing

                Unfortunately not indicative. A single case has fallen from statistics. That is why, with the development of statistics, doctors from the 18th century stopped experimenting on themselves.
                "In connection with these facts, it is worth noting interesting data reported by Amano from Kyoto about the long-term consequences of the atomic bomb explosion in Hiroshima. In this city, the number of leukemias sharply increased in the post-war years. Before World War II, they amounted to 1,5 per 100 population. In 000-1948, their number increased to 1951 per 8,2. The death rate from leukemia in Hiroshima in the period after 100-000 was 1948-1950 times higher than in other countries. " If you want, compare the% of centenarians from Hiroshima to the% of centenarians, for example, from Yokkaichi.
                1. Thunderbolt
                  Thunderbolt 22 February 2016 01: 19
                  +2
                  Quote: Rivares
                  . Mortality

                  Quote: Rivares
                  % centenarians

                  This is all important, of course, but there is another side of the danger of radiation. A chromosomal mutation is called. This is a whole bunch of "kinder surprises".
                  1. dokusib
                    dokusib 22 February 2016 14: 42
                    +4
                    Kinder surprises, as you said now, are enough in any hospital. Modern pediatrics saves lives in extremely difficult cases. So it turns out that what was previously written in the graph of child mortality during childbirth now falls into the section of congenital pathology. Moreover, not all of them remain disabled for life. Timely operated infants with congenital heart or digestive tract defects grow up in completely healthy people. But statistics certainly spoil. Any environmental activist can go to the archive and dig there everything he wants.
                2. Svateev
                  Svateev 23 February 2016 15: 08
                  +1
                  On the question of the alarmism of your judgments. Earlier you wrote: "Those exposed to radiation in 3-7 years die en masse from leukemia, in 15-30 years from tumors." This is how people die - "in large numbers". Now you have given the numbers:
                  Quote: Rivares
                  the number of leukemia. Before World War II, they made up 1,5 on the 100 000 population. In 1948-1951 their number increased to 8,2 by 100 000 people.

                  Yes, there is growth. But 8,2 out of 100 thousand cases are "massive" ?! Quite the opposite, we have massively experienced irradiation WITHOUT leukemia.
                  Such alarmist assessments as yours do much more harm than radiation itself.
            2. Bongo
              Bongo 21 February 2016 17: 18
              +4
              Quote: Balu
              Jokes are bad with radiation, especially with the one that penetrates with food, water, and air.

              Do not mix sour with fresh No. The term "radiation" is too vague. Practice has proven that in an air nuclear explosion, the radiation pollution is relatively small, and it quickly decreases.
            3. Svateev
              Svateev 21 February 2016 17: 27
              +3
              Quote: Balu
              With radiation, the jokes are bad

              It's right. But you can't panic out of the blue. In 2005, perhaps, information appeared about an accident at a nearby (100 kilometers) nuclear power plant, and some civilian acquaintances tried to convince me personally to drink iodine and give it to my whole family - for protection: "We are not being told the truth, we urgently need to defend ourselves, we have already drunk ... "Barely convinced them not to panic ahead of time. And then doctors reported an increase in hospitalizations from iodine overdose: excess iodine for the thyroid gland is also poison.
              No, guys, you need to be friends with your head!
      3. derik1970
        derik1970 24 February 2016 15: 01
        +1
        I live 45 km from the Totsk polygon in Buzuluk. The incidence of cancer is really high. "Cancer" is such a sore that it cannot be treated, the more and there is no one to treat it. In the city there is an oncological center, people are stupidly cut and sent to die, there are like cool doctors, former troeshniks in, the city of Orenburg is more than 200 km from us, I'm sure the same thing, the Ministry of Health in the country is one for all. Sorochinsk is not far from the Totsk polygon. Exercises are held at the training ground, he himself was there at artillery firing, actually not far from the place of nuclear weapons testing. Someone who was not lucky did not get sick, but someone who was not lucky died. Of course, information about the scale of the disease is hidden in our time no worse than in the days of Stalin. And we must think of how to test nuclear weapons and say that all measures have been taken to safely conduct the tests. Bullshit. Nuclear weapons cannot be safely tested at all, unless it is on Mars ...
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Svateev
      Svateev 21 February 2016 16: 06
      +9
      Quote: Fitter65
      thousands of dead after in hospitals ... Whoever believed in this nonsense will believe, even if they count on the count on the head ...

      That's for sure. When in the 90s this topic began to be discussed in the media, I watched and spat on one of the documentaries. In it, a participant in that test, then a soldier or a sergeant, told with a tear in his voice that an experiment was conducted over him and that is why he is now sick with cancer. And he says: "We were sent to measure the level of radiation along the route of our convoy. It was supposed to wear OZK, but OZK does not protect against penetrating radiation, so we did not wear these useless capes ..." That is, this idiot. O.T still does not want to admit that he himself is to blame for his exposure: without wearing the OZK, he grabbed the radioactive dust into the fabric of his uniform, which he wore for another six months before demobilization. And if I would put on the OZK and, upon leaving the contamination zone, as expected, remove and dispose of it (it should be buried if a special collection is not made) - then I would stop receiving the dose. And without putting on the OZK how much he wore uniforms, he received so much radiation.
      1. Thunderbolt
        Thunderbolt 22 February 2016 01: 08
        0
        Quote: Svateev
        this IDF does not want to admit that he himself is to blame for his exposure: without putting on an OZK, he grabbed radioactive dust into the uniform fabric, in which he still went half a year to demobilization.
        He did not go for six months. Immediately after the obligatory bath, the participants in the exercises were given a new uniform. And the fact that the soldiers could neglect the OZK is hard to believe. The head of the exercises Zhukov, the procedure was thoroughly studied by the participants theoretically, but in practice it was controlled by authorized observers and representatives of the General Staff and Soviet scientists. .If there was such a case, it was isolated. Because the operation "Snowball" is not an exercise at all, as is commonly believed. Rather, a scientific experiment. And for the purity of the experiment, strict control was applied.
        1. Svateev
          Svateev 23 February 2016 15: 17
          0
          Quote: Thunderbolt
          And the fact that the soldiers could neglect the OZK is hard to believe.

          You think that I came up with this documentary? To the barrier ... am
  2. alex86
    alex86 21 February 2016 08: 53
    0
    In 1984, at the training camp (institute in the 5th year), they drove past the epicenter - there were broken old tanks - not a lot, and obviously not from the time of the explosion, but later set as targets. We drove calmly, without any nerves. The place of the explosion (if we were not lied to) - slightly lowered relative to the rest of the terrain - was probably specially chosen this way - but just "a little".
  3. guzik007
    guzik007 21 February 2016 10: 36
    -9
    In fact, no one saw the explosion in the troops.
    ----------------------------------------------
    I look at the photo and think: ... peacocks, you say?
    1. Fitter65
      Fitter65 21 February 2016 11: 18
      12
      Take a closer look at who is sitting, obviously not in / serving the Soviet Army. The soldiers' helmets are not like the Soviet ones, like the rest of the equipment. So the peacock has a luxurious chicken under a magnificent tail ... Watch carefully ...
    2. Sargord A.
      Sargord A. 21 February 2016 19: 16
      +2
      Nothing, that this photo from Baster Doga?
  4. pothas
    pothas 21 February 2016 11: 37
    +2
    the map is inaccurate (Samara River, not Sakmara. Sorochinsk, not Sorochin)
    1. iouris
      iouris 21 February 2016 12: 38
      +2
      An NTV news announcer in the 90s reported that "American pilots in F-15 Phantom planes had arrived on a visit to the Russian airbase Sevast Lake."
      (Who does not know: Savasleyka, Nizhny Novgorod region).
  5. fa2998
    fa2998 21 February 2016 11: 50
    +1
    I will not say for the injured military, everything is secret. But look at the map - a country occupying 1/6 of the land, with many uninhabited places, hundreds of islands - to detonate an atomic bomb among many villages and villages (4-5-10-15 km) - genius you can’t name it! The military left, but the villages remained with the inhabitants! Someone over the years has been interested in their health, pathologies, and hereditary diseases. fool hi
    1. Voice of the Mind
      Voice of the Mind 21 February 2016 23: 49
      -1
      Quote: fa2998
      Tran, which occupies 1/6 of the land, has many uninhabited places, hundreds of islands — to detonate an atomic bomb among many villages and villages (4-5-10-15 km) - you cannot call genius! The military left, but the villages with the inhabitants remained!

      100500
      And I recommend to all those who defend the Totsk military exercises to submit an application to the Ministry of Defense for participation in yet another such exercises
      1. Svateev
        Svateev 23 February 2016 15: 30
        0
        Quote: Voice of Mind
        And I recommend to all those who defend the Totsk military exercises to submit an application to the Ministry of Defense for participation in yet another such exercises

        And we have never shied away from service and will not shy from now on. Unlike cowards like you ... angry
        1. Voice of the Mind
          Voice of the Mind 26 February 2016 01: 05
          0
          Quote: Svateev
          And we have never shied away from service and will not shy from now on. Unlike cowards like you ...

          Well then) the law has not been written to fools, move to live in Chernobyl.
          I answer harshly, because I absolutely do not understand when did we switch to you and what are the accusations of cowardice based on?
  6. Kaiten
    Kaiten 21 February 2016 12: 09
    +6
    The natural background of the earth is approximately 15 μR / hour. Deviation up to 60 μR / hour is allowed. Values ​​of 0.5 R / hr, which is about 10 times more than the maximum value of the natural radiation background, are called safe in the article. In addition, taking advantage of the illiteracy of the population, only the immediate (acute) effect of radiation damage-radiation sickness is indicated and the possible harm to health for a long period of time is not indicated, expressed as an increased chance of developing malignant diseases after 10-20 years, which is called Health Risk in English Assessment. Has anyone compared the oncological incidence of personnel and the local population over a long period of time with the average Russian norm? No, this data is not given in the article. And apparently if you bring them, then the conclusions will not be so rosy.
    1. iouris
      iouris 21 February 2016 12: 44
      -3
      There is much in the world, Horatio's friend, which yours and our sages have not dreamed of.
      Did anyone evaluate the death rate from the use of Coca-Cola, fast food or mobile devices?
      In general, the exercises showed that the atomic bomb is a paper tiger. This conclusion is especially relevant in the light of current events in your region.
      1. Kaiten
        Kaiten 21 February 2016 13: 02
        +5
        Quote: iouris
        Coca-Cola, fast food or mobile devices

        The difference is whether an ordinary person has the right to choose whether or not to buy Coke, fast food and a mobile phone. The soldier has no such choice, he goes where he is ordered. And the commanders think for him. Accordingly, if, as a result of incorrect decisions of the commanders, the health of the soldier is harmed, then the country must legally recognize the soldier as a military invalid and take care of him accordingly.
        1. Sergey TT
          Sergey TT 21 February 2016 18: 39
          +1
          Is there any information about such research from the Americans after their exercises? The test of the hydrogen bomb in 1954 (Operation Castle Bravo) on Bikini Atoll ended for the audience, and not only the audience, much more sadly: http://atomas.ru/milit/index-16.htm
      2. Baloo
        Baloo 21 February 2016 15: 41
        +2
        move to Chernobyl, there is such a potato! and mushrooms! A fish! True calves are born with two heads or with five legs, but what a funny!
        Live about a year, then tell us about the background, and in general how the flora and fauna is doing. wassat
        1. Svateev
          Svateev 21 February 2016 16: 46
          +1
          Quote: Balu
          move to Chernobyl, there is such a potato!

          Move yourself, in Chernobyl the background is really raised. So there is a completely different story. A nuclear explosive bomb has several tens of kilograms. And in the exploded reactor of the Chernobyl nuclear power plant, there are about 190 tons of vigorous fuel containing about 3% of uranium. That is, pure uranium is about 5,7 tons (190т * 3%). And most of this uranium was thrown out of the reactor. So there will be a long flash.
          1. Alf
            Alf 21 February 2016 20: 32
            +2
            Quote: Svateev
            Move yourself, in Chernobyl the background is really raised. So there is a completely different story. A nuclear explosive bomb has several tens of kilograms. And in the exploded reactor of the Chernobyl nuclear power plant, there are about 190 tons of vigorous fuel containing about 3% of uranium. That is, pure uranium is about 5,7 tons (190т * 3%). And most of this uranium was thrown out of the reactor. So there will be a long flash.
          2. Rivares
            Rivares 21 February 2016 22: 58
            0
            Quote: Svateev
            In a nuclear bomb several tens of kilograms. And in the exploding reactor of the Chernobyl nuclear power plant, about 190 tons of vigorous fuel containing about 3% of uranium. That is, pure uranium is about 5,7 tons (190 tons * 3%). And most of this uranium was thrown out of the reactor. So there will be a long flash.

            Not in this case. In a nuclear explosion, the "filling" is split to non-radioactive substances by almost 100% and contamination with radionuclides disappears after 3-5 days. And during explosions at nuclear power plants, isotopes with a half-life of 50-150 years are emitted. Therefore, the fonit will be long and sad ...
            1. Svateev
              Svateev 23 February 2016 16: 05
              0
              Quote: Rivares
              Not in this case.

              Just to argue, right? The only one on this site who studied "weapons of mass destruction and protection against it", right? In your opinion, the amount of the initial nuclear explosive does not affect the level of radioactive contamination? And it doesn't affect the level of induced radiation either, right ?!
              Instead of "This is not the point," they would write: "And you also need to take into account that during a nuclear explosion, the" filling "is split ..." But no, you don't want to argue ...
              1. Operator
                Operator 23 February 2016 20: 34
                +1
                At the Totsky test site in 1954, the RDS-2 nuclear plutonium charge was detonated.

                In the explosion of a modern thermonuclear charge (with an increased neutron yield in the secondary fusion reaction), residues from the plutonium fuse participating in the primary fission reaction are burned by neutrons by 100 percent. Only short-lived plutonium fission products are radioactive.
                The weight of plutonium in the composition of the 100-kt thermonuclear charge and, accordingly, its fission products is about 7 kg with a half-life from 1 hours to 50 years.

                In a nuclear reactor there is no neutron flux from the fusion reaction, so there is no burning of long-lived fission products of uranium-235.
                During the thermal explosion of the nuclear reactor of the Chernobol NPP, together with uranium-235, its fission products were thrown out weighing several hundred tons. The half-lives of these products range from 200 years to 225 thousand years.
        2. dokusib
          dokusib 22 February 2016 14: 58
          0
          I watched the two-part documentary "Chernobyl. Forbidden Zone". The normal animal there is quite healthy. Just not scared at all. And people live in villages. Another transfer was "Checked on myself" I think. There the host and the local old man went fishing and cooked fish soup from what they caught.
  7. Bongo
    Bongo 21 February 2016 14: 17
    +5
    The next day, the command staff of the units was brought to the epicenter of the explosion; at the epicenter point, the background was less than 10 R / h.

    A memorial sign has been erected on the site above which the bomb was detonated in memory of the "atomic exercises" that took place here.

    The radiation level in this place is now slightly different from the background values.
  8. Captain45
    Captain45 21 February 2016 15: 49
    +3
    On the subject of the explosion: I lived in the city of Buzuluk for almost 35 years, the settlement of Tok-2, where military units and a training ground are located about 32-35 km. From Buzuluk In the 80s, a retired underground tanker instructor at the technical school said that during the exercise, various equipment was placed around the training ground, and one very clever sergeant major from his unit borrowed an engine from the GAZ-69 and something else on the little things, and as Nikolai Petrovich (the teacher) said: "He did it in vain, after a year he didn't need anything but a place in the cemetery." This is to the topic of infection, and then, when at the beginning 90s, the division was withdrawn from the GSVG to Totsk, according to the contract the Germans were supposed to build houses for the officers, but they arrived, they looked at their dosimeters and decided to give them money, they say, build it yourself. I don't know, maybe the Germans have too high radiation levels compared to us. , but the fact that in the Buzuluk district the level of oncology is higher than in the region and its neighbors in Samara is 100% data, and not secret. Five years ago a new cancer center was built in the city, probably there was no money to go or because there was nothing to do.
    Quote: Bongo
    The radiation level in this place is now slightly different from the background values.

    So the 62 of the year has passed, the level in Chernobyl is also much lower, and only 30 of the years ago was more powerful in terms of emissions.
    1. Svateev
      Svateev 21 February 2016 17: 07
      +2
      Quote: Captain45
      one very smart foreman-super-conscript from his unit borrowed an engine and something else for little things from the GAZ-69, and as Nikolai Petrovich (teacher) said: “he shouldn't have done it, after a year he didn't need anything but a place on cemetery".

      And in one medical book about the treatment of radiation injuries, the following real case is given: the captain of chemical protection (!) Picked a probe from a dosimetry device, which checks the operability of the device. A probe is such a small metal spoon with a lid. The composition is soldered in a spoon - a source of alpha radiation. Alpha radiation has very low penetrating power and when you close this spoon with a lid, it is completely safe. And when you need to check whether the device is working, you shift the lid to the side, bring the detector to it and it starts to click in your headphones - the device is working, I felt the radiation. So entot, the captain, a pick-up probe without a cap, carried two weeks in the back pocket of his uniform trousers: he wanted to retire due to occupational disease. But when he entered the hospital, they could no longer save him, although they did everything - and his leg was amputated along with the hip joint, and bone marrow transplantation ...
      No, guys, you need to be friends with your head!
    2. Svateev
      Svateev 21 February 2016 17: 12
      0
      Quote: Captain45
      in Buzuluk district, the level of oncology is higher than for the region and neighbors in Samara is 100% data, and it’s not secret. About five years ago a new cancer center was built in the city, there was probably no money to do or nothing to do.

      Give a link to the source of this data. Since the article says the opposite, and the link is given to the document:
      3. Health of the population in the surveyed areas currently on the basic health and demographic characteristics correspond to the average regional indicators, including cancer incidence and congenital anomalies, and do not exceed those in the control areas of the region and the RSFSR »[4]

      [4] Nuclear tests: a scientific journalistic monograph on general. ed. V.N. Mikhailov. S.A. Zelencov. Totsky military doctrine http://www.iss.niiit.ru/ksenia/tockoe/6.htm
      1. Captain45
        Captain45 21 February 2016 17: 28
        +2
        Quote: Svateev
        Quote: Captain45
        in Buzuluk district, the level of oncology is higher than for the region and neighbors in Samara is 100% data, and it’s not secret. About five years ago a new cancer center was built in the city, there was probably no money to do or nothing to do.

        Give a link to the source of this data.

        The city cemetery where people I knew and died of oncology are lying on + a personal conversation in 1998 with an oncologist from the Doctors Without Borders association, who specially came and worked in the Totsk and Sorochy regions. Here are the links. Come to Buzuluk, see for yourself, but I lived in Buzuluk myself. I don't need links. Only in 2015, 3 former colleagues buried cancer of the stomach, lungs, bones. Age from 54 to 63 years.
        1. Svateev
          Svateev 21 February 2016 17: 45
          +2
          Quote: Captain45
          City cemetery, on which lie the people whom I knew and died from oncology

          At EVERY cemetery all over the world who die from oncology - a significant proportion of the total number of deaths. My relatives also died from oncology, although they have never been exposed anywhere except fluorography at medical examinations, I know for sure. So the cemetery is not an argument. Oncology has a lot of reasons - both viruses, and chemical preparations, and not all are known yet.
          1. Generalissimo
            Generalissimo 22 February 2016 01: 15
            -3
            You tell it in Hiroshima and other similar places ...
            1. Svateev
              Svateev 23 February 2016 16: 09
              -1
              Quote: Generalissimo
              You tell it in Hiroshima and other similar places ...

              They know it themselves. Therefore, they live in Hiroshima and Nagasaki and do not move anywhere.
              1. Generalissimo
                Generalissimo 25 February 2016 19: 14
                0
                ... and even volunteered for Fukushima, ahead of all of Japan!
      2. Rivares
        Rivares 21 February 2016 23: 06
        +2
        Quote: Svateev
        Give a link to the source of this data. Since the article says the opposite, and the link is given to the document:

        Yeah. I myself work in medicine. What certificates do officials need, such a stat department will draw, not to dig. Medicine 100% in the union depended on the government, and did not give any incriminating evidence. If you want to give a couple of quotes from memoirs of medical specialists on this issue)
        1. Svateev
          Svateev 23 February 2016 16: 16
          -1
          Quote: Rivares
          I myself work in medicine. What certificates do officials need, such a stat department will draw, not to dig.

          That is, you have figures about radiation levels and diseases (you yourself collected them in the fields and at clinics and hospitals), which confirm that the statistics in the article are stat. data is fake? And are you ready to publish your numbers?
          Or do you only have snot: "I myself am the daughter of an officer, believe me, everything is not so simple ..."?
    3. Svateev
      Svateev 23 February 2016 18: 24
      0
      Quote: Captain45
      About five years ago, a new cancer center was built in the city, probably there was no place to put money or there was nothing to do from it.

      Surely nowhere to go, and a lot of money. Because new cancer centers are being built throughout the Russian Federation. They built it in our region, but we didn’t have any nuclear emergencies. That’s how strange it is-the government of the Russian Federation ... laughing
  9. Svateev
    Svateev 21 February 2016 16: 38
    -1
    Quote: Kaiten
    In the article, the values ​​in 0.5 R / hour are called safe.

    Something I did not find in the article. Quote from the article, please.
    Quote: Kaiten
    Did someone compare the oncological incidence of personnel and the local population over a long period of time with the average Russian norm? No, this data is not given in the article. And apparently if you bring them, then the conclusions will not be so rosy.

    Well, why lie? Here from the article:
    3. Health of the population in the surveyed areas currently on the basic health and demographic characteristics correspond to the average regional indicators, including cancer incidence and congenital anomalies, and do not exceed those in the control areas of the region and the RSFSR »[4]
    1. Baloo
      Baloo 21 February 2016 17: 05
      +1
      including cancer and congenital anomalies, and do not exceed those in the control areas of the region and the RSFSR ”[4]
      I will never believe. It's like the average temperature in a hospital. For an old woman with a bouquet of diabetes and a thyroid gland with worn out adrenal glands (or narik), even with the flu, the temperature 35.1-35.8 will always be. And someone has a 37.2-ordinary. The statistics are fake, so as not to invest in local medicine.
      1. Svateev
        Svateev 21 February 2016 17: 34
        -1
        Quote: Balu
        The statistics are fake,

        Baloo, friend, everything can be in the sublunary world. But it has not yet been proven that "fake", not trusting specialists is a sign of neurosis ... yes
        1. Baloo
          Baloo 21 February 2016 17: 56
          +2
          The statistics are fake, so as not to invest in local medicine, to pay for disability, etc.
          In general, what is the dispute about? Does radiation instantly evaporate and no harm, contribute to a long and happy life? Or getting into the soil, water and with further, see the school biology textbook "The cycle of substances in nature."
          1. Svateev
            Svateev 21 February 2016 19: 00
            0
            Quote: Balu
            Does radiation instantly evaporate and no harm, contribute to a long and happy life? Or getting into the soil, water and with further, see the school biology textbook "The cycle of substances in nature."

            Radiation really is not eternal, having emitted, the atom becomes ordinary - not radioactive. Have you heard about the half-life? Even in this discussion they wrote about him. Therefore, if the instruments show that the radiation level is normal, this means that ordinary, non-radioactive substances are already involved in the cycle of substances.
            Have I reassured you? In addition to textbooks for high school, you should read something more impressive - a textbook for a university, at least ... lol
            1. Rivares
              Rivares 21 February 2016 23: 19
              +2
              Quote: Svateev
              In addition to textbooks for high school, you should read something more impressive - a textbook for high school

              I will intercede for the Ball. If you yourself read those textbooks that you recommend to him, it would turn out that Balu is mistaken in particular, but essentially right. These textbooks describe both the long-term effects of a single exposure and the effects of exposure to small doses. Both cause tumors after many years (% increases significantly compared to unirradiated)
              1. Baloo
                Baloo 22 February 2016 10: 15
                0
                I am surprised at the simplification of approaches to the consequences of radiation infection. I will no longer continue the empty argument, I will say about the environment. According to the distribution, in 1980 it ended up in one industrial center, which at that time was not exactly indicated on all domestic maps. The house in which he got the room was heated with peat briquettes harvested several tens of kilometers from the city. In the city for more than 150 years, not far from the center, a large metallurgical plant. So, every time I cleaned the furnace, in addition to ash there were scraps of brown metal.
                A colleague about the centenarians of Nagasaki and Hiroshima.
                For so many years, the ecology around the city is so dirty that even metal can be extracted from peat bogs. As far back as the last century, it was estimated that 5 atypical one constantly appears in the body by 6-1 million newly formed cells. The body calculates and destroys it. However, it can turn out to be so angry that it develops a barrier around itself, circulating throughout the body, sticks to the vessel’s sitenka, destroys the vessel wall and releases into the tissue with a protein-enzyme. If the body does not react, rapid growth begins. And another evil cell will gnaw through the vessel wall, enter the channel and drive on.
                In what doses does radiation increase immunity, and generally increase? It is enough to use one small isotope in a small concentration in the body to cause a series of atypical cells and amb, the process cannot be stopped. I do not think that there are more centenarians in Hiroshima and Nagasaki than in the Caucasus for example.
                By the way, take a brick from a house built before 2 world and modern. Do you think the background will be different? Already determined to be. hi
                1. Svateev
                  Svateev 23 February 2016 16: 47
                  -1
                  Quote: Balu
                  One small isotope is enough in a small concentration in the body to cause a series of atypical cells and amb, the process can not be stopped.

                  On the contrary, oncology has long been treated with small doses of radiation. Now on the central channels there is an advertisement for the "Gamma Knife" technique of one of the Moscow clinics. Because the faster cells divide, the more sensitive they are to radiation. Cancer cells divide faster than other cells in the body. And if the dose is correctly calculated, then oncological all die, and the rest - almost all survive.
                  Everything is medicine, and everything is poison. Dose dependent.
                  Quote: Balu
                  Take a brick from a house built before 2 world and modern. Do you think the background will be different? Already determined will

                  The background will differ depending on which quarry and from which layer clay for brick was taken. For example, with a device, you measure the level in 20 meters from the building - it is one, and measure under the pipe through which rain water from the roof merges, there - the level is much higher. Because under the pipe in one place I gathered from the whole roof of radiation with rains. And how much different rocks differ in radiation level is a separate issue altogether ... And this is not the result of nuclear tests by humans, it is the structure of the Earth that contains radioactive elements.
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                  2. Baloo
                    Baloo 23 February 2016 18: 14
                    +1
                    On the contrary, oncology has long been treated with small doses of radiation.
                    You do not understand, it is not external radiation in small doses that is scary, but the ingress of nuclides with water, food, air.

                    The background will differ depending on which quarry and from which layer clay for brick was taken
                    we are talking about brick from the masonry of the building built to the Second World War and brick from the conveyor. Research was conducted at the end of the last century.
                    1. Svateev
                      Svateev 23 February 2016 20: 05
                      0
                      Quote: Balu
                      scary is not external radiation in small doses, but the ingress of nuclides with water, food, air.

                      They treat not only external radiation, but also the introduction of radioactive nucleides inside. Some chem. elements accumulate in certain tissues of the body, for example, iodine - in the thyroid gland. If the tumor is in the thyroid gland, then radioactive iodine is introduced, it is concentrated in the thyroid gland, suppressing the tumor there and almost does not irradiate other organs.
                      Quote: Balu
                      we are talking about brick from the masonry of the building built until the Second World War and brick from the conveyor.

                      So what? What is the comparison of the background of brick from the wall to 2 MV and brick from the conveyor? Just that now the clay was taken from the reservoir with an increased background.
                  3. Baloo
                    Baloo 23 February 2016 18: 28
                    +1
                    On the contrary, oncology has long been treated with small doses of radiation.
                    Isotopes with a short half-life have long been used, external radiation therapy is aimed when it is dangerous or technically impossible to operate.
                    We talk about different things. Your position: atomic ammunition exploded and that’s all, nothing is scary. Come live.
                    My humble knowledge does not allow me to agree with such a simplified view. By the way, you yourself were there, I mean Totsk.
                    From Totsk to the epicenter 80 km, Sorochinsk turned out to be the closest.
                    Please note that after Buzuluk there is no normal forest, undergrowth. Why? So many years have passed, and the forest does not grow.
                    1. Svateev
                      Svateev 23 February 2016 20: 09
                      +1
                      Quote: Balu
                      after Buzuluk there is no normal forest, undergrowth. Why? So many years have passed, and the forest does not grow.

                      And the forest there did not grow before the tests. Otherwise, after the explosion, forest fires would have occurred on a large territory, which no one notes. It’s just that the forest doesn’t grow, and it never grew.
                  4. The comment was deleted.
              2. Svateev
                Svateev 23 February 2016 16: 22
                0
                Quote: Rivares
                the long-term effects of a single exposure and the effects of exposure to small doses

                I do not count the argument. No.
                Balu and I are not discussing the effects of exposure, but where the radiation went. Balu believes that she still turns around in nature and affects current newborns. I explain that radioactive substances no longer turn around.
            2. Baloo
              Baloo 22 February 2016 09: 58
              0
              уChebnik for high school at least ...
              You did not understand? The university had general hygiene and military, and radiation, and even a military department, etc.
            3. Baloo
              Baloo 22 February 2016 11: 07
              0
              textbook for high school at least ...
              Dear Svateev colleague, you probably did not understand.
              In our Soviet university there were such subjects as: General hygiene, Military hygiene, Radiation Hygiene and even the military department, in which we received relevant knowledge and skills.
              In all subsequent studies in the main specialty in Soviet times, questions of actions in the focus of WMD were also studied in a short course.
              That everything is calm in Sempalatinsk, the level of oncology and congenital deformities does not differ from those living in the Bahamas? and there were underground explosions at a painful depth in the rocks.
              1. Svateev
                Svateev 23 February 2016 17: 01
                0
                Quote: Balu
                That everything is calm in Sempalatinsk, the level of oncology and congenital malformations does not differ from those living in the Bahamas?

                Do you think there is no radiation in the Bahamas? I don’t know, I don’t know ... It is necessary to check. Because near volcanoes the background just can be significantly increased. You need to measure the level before citing the Bahamas as an example.
                And in Semipalatinsk, again: WHERE THE FIGURES are the level of oncology and congenital malformations? Or your task - you just want to raise the degree of tantrum?
                1. Baloo
                  Baloo 23 February 2016 18: 16
                  -1
                  Hysteria?
                  In Yeltsin's time, the problem of the radiation ecology of the Semipalatinsk region was raised more than once.
                  1. Svateev
                    Svateev 23 February 2016 20: 16
                    -1
                    Quote: Balu
                    In Yeltsin's time, the problem of the radiation ecology of the Semipalatinsk region was raised more than once.

                    Right. In the Yeltsin era, such problems were raised. And with these problems the country was "sinking". And now, you have brought a lot of "horror stories", but there is no justification for them.
                2. The comment was deleted.
        2. Generalissimo
          Generalissimo 22 February 2016 01: 07
          -2
          Evidence for which Kiev did not cancel the May Day demonstration 1986 also needed?
          1. Svateev
            Svateev 23 February 2016 17: 05
            0
            Quote: Generalissimo
            Evidence for which Kiev did not cancel the May Day demonstration 1986 also needed?

            No, not needed. This is an established fact.
            Better suggest how to make sure that in the future the relevant leaders do not show cowardice and thoughtlessness in such disasters?
      2. Kaiten
        Kaiten 21 February 2016 23: 40
        0
        Quote: Balu
        It's like the average temperature in a hospital.

        100%
    2. Kaiten
      Kaiten 21 February 2016 23: 39
      +1
      Quote: Svateev

      Something I did not find in the article. Quote from the article, please.

      "The team marked with special flags the zones" more than 25 R / h "," 0.5-25 R / h, "0.1-0.5 R / h. Subsequently, these flags were guided by the" advancing "troops."
      Even if the troops all the time followed the flags 0.1-0.5 R / h (minimum), they were in the zone several times higher than the natural background. In real life, I strongly doubt that ALL military groups, without exception, traveled around the zone with a minimum level of infection.

      Quote: Svateev
      Well, why lie? Here from the article:

      No need to be rude. How can we compare the overall cancer incidence of all population groups, many of which were born after 1954? Where are the data on those born before 1954, where is the data on the personnel who participated in the exercise?
      1. Thunderbolt
        Thunderbolt 22 February 2016 02: 24
        +1
        Quote: Kaiten
        Where is the data
        The data is there, but they are classified. And to understand the purpose of these exercises (a scientific experiment) I will cite one remarkable fact: in one of the nearby villages, half of the inhabitants were hidden in trenches with an upper deck and they sat there. And the other half had to go out into an open area of ​​terrain and escape there (lying down with your feet to the epicenter). You will not read about this on the Internet and you will not find any links there. It was told to me by the mother of my brother's wife. She is from there. She was still a girl when she was "sunbathing" in this lovely meadow. And a child who in the family of his brother was born in the 21st century, too from there. I will not describe here what happened to her. It is not ethical, and the baby is happy in her way --- she is a child, she has a childhood. Dad and mom love and did not refuse. Everything is good !!! But the one who says here, that this experiment was not dangerous for the participants ... I would have laughed in their faces if it had not been so sad.
        P.S. I also want to bow in the belt, dear ones, to Comrade Khrushchev and Kurchatov. You have honestly earned your "stars".
        1. Kaiten
          Kaiten 22 February 2016 10: 55
          0
          Quote: Thunderbolt
          There is data, but they are classified

          Of course they are. Such experiments are carried out with all kinds of preparation. Many many factors are taken into account. I am sure that more than one scientist defended himself on the results of this "experiment".
          1. Svateev
            Svateev 23 February 2016 18: 03
            -1
            Quote: Kaiten
            There is data, but they are classified
            Of course they are. I am sure that more than one scientist defended himself on the results of this "experiment".

            But I’m sure that you are simply the enemies of Russia. And after all, I'm not just sure, but I see it from your comments.
            1. Kaiten
              Kaiten 23 February 2016 18: 26
              0
              Quote: Svateev

              But I’m sure that you are simply the enemies of Russia. And after all, I'm not just sure, but I see it according to your comments

              But I generally think that those who have a different opinion from mine - the contra is unfinished.
              1. Svateev
                Svateev 23 February 2016 20: 19
                0
                Quote: Kaiten
                But I generally think that those who have a different opinion from mine - the contra is unfinished.

                Well, that's "decrypted". And then I doubted, suddenly, under the Israeli flag, they happened to be ...
        2. Svateev
          Svateev 23 February 2016 17: 57
          -1
          Quote: Thunderbolt
          Told me by the mother of my brother’s wife.

          We believe. We absolutely believe! After all, this is not "one woman said", but a Thunderbolt on the Internet ... We especially believe in the further tearful description of a child who "was born in the 21st century, but also from there."
          Quote: Thunderbolt
          P.S. I also want to bow in the belt, dear ones, to Comrade Khrushchev and Kurchatov. You have honestly earned your "stars".

          That's what I didn't understand: "YOU are your stars ...". Either Khrushchev and Kurchatov came to life, or Thunderbolt from the other world writes his comments to us here ... How can you personally contact them then ?!
      2. Svateev
        Svateev 23 February 2016 17: 18
        0
        Quote: Kaiten
        No need to be rude.

        Truth is not rudeness. You stated that the article does not provide data on cancer incidence in comparison with the average Russian norm. But this data is in the article. That is, you lied, which I pointed out to you.
        And the fact that you simply don’t like the data presented in the article is another question.
        Quote: Kaiten
        How can we compare the overall cancer incidence of all population groups, many of whom were born after 1954? Where are the data for those born before the 1954 year,

        And what will such a division give - those born before and after 1954?
        1. Kaiten
          Kaiten 23 February 2016 18: 32
          0
          Quote: Svateev
          And the fact that you simply don’t like the data presented in the article is another question.

          Do you yourself like the data given on the army personnel?

          Quote: Svateev
          And what will such a division give - those born before and after 1954?

          For some reason, it seems to me that if the explosion occurred in 1954, then it is necessary to study its effect in the people who lived then ...
          1. Svateev
            Svateev 23 February 2016 20: 32
            -1
            Quote: Kaiten
            And you yourself like the data given

            I have no reason not to trust this data, therefore I trust them. You also have no reason not to trust this data, but you do not trust it. That’s how the friends and enemies of Russia differ.
            Quote: Kaiten
            For some reason, it seems to me that if the explosion occurred in the 1954 year, then it is necessary to study its effect in the people who lived then

            Well, well, at least you don’t think that because of the explosion, children with mutations are still born. Even though you are an ally of common sense and facts lol
            1. Kaiten
              Kaiten 24 February 2016 12: 37
              -1
              Quote: Svateev
              I have no reason not to trust this data, therefore I trust them. You also have no reason not to trust this data, but you do not trust it. That’s how the friends and enemies of Russia differ.
              Quote: Kaiten

              No data were provided; there was only an allegation of no harm. In order for such allegations to be believed, it is necessary to bring an expert check into evidence. As for the friends and enemies of Russia: you are just trying to tense the situation instead of a calm, professional discussion - this is a cheap common technique. You can discuss my nationality in the same spirit, in any case, those who read it will obviously have no professional arguments on your part.
              1. Svateev
                Svateev 26 February 2016 22: 08
                0
                Quote: Kaiten
                And you yourself like the data given

                Quote: Kaiten
                No data was provided.

                Well, you would have decided: there were data or there weren’t any ...
                Quote: Kaiten
                it is necessary to bring an expert check into evidence.

                So after all, the data are collected not by Aunt Maney from the soap factory, but by our respective specialists.
                Ah, our specialists cannot be trusted, right? Can you trust only your specialists? Well, of course, we need your "most independent" expertise ...
      3. Svateev
        Svateev 23 February 2016 17: 31
        +1
        Quote: Kaiten
        Even if the troops all the time followed the flags 0.1-0.5 R / h (minimum) they were in the zone several times higher than the natural background.

        Well, how did you manage to conclude from this that "In the article, values ​​of 0.5 R / hour are called safe" ?! The troops, however, only passed these zones, maximum - in a few hours and received a maximum of several x-rays. And it turns out that such zones in the article are simply called safe, as if the authorities were allowed to stay there permanently, to live.
        1. Kaiten
          Kaiten 23 February 2016 18: 39
          -1
          Quote: Svateev
          And it turns out that such zones in the article are simply called safe, it seems like the authorities allowed to stay there permanently, to live.

          By no means, I did not write about the long-term exposure of the general population at all, I believe that even a short-term exposure, "in a few X-rays" as you write, can be harmful to health. And even if this harm did not manifest itself in the form of immediate illnesses, then it may well manifest itself in the future in the form of an increased chance of acquiring cancer or teratogenic effects on the fetus.
          1. Svateev
            Svateev 23 February 2016 20: 49
            0
            Quote: Kaiten
            I believe that even a short exposure, "in a few X-rays" as you write, can be harmful to health.

            Ahh, that is, you are an uncompromising ecologist! Not too much x-ray? Are you blocking Israeli airports? Indeed, when flying at an altitude of about 10km, passengers receive a significantly larger dose of radiation than on the ground. Well, and you, I think, were just standing against American subcaliber shells from depleted uranium in Yugoslavia?
            Quote: Kaiten
            even if this harm was not manifested in the form of immediate diseases, then it may well manifest itself in the future

            Yes maybe. But military duty must be performed. Therefore - GLORY TO PARTICIPANTS OF TOTA EXERCISE, WHICH HAVE PROVEN THAT OUR MILITIES DO NOT PANIC, AND GO THROUGH THE EPICENTER - A CREATED DAMAGE AGAINED BY THE EXPLOSION IN THE DEFENSE OF THE ENEMY. It was precisely the MORAL-VOLLY SPIRIT AND TESTED ON THESE EXERCISES - WONT THE TROOPS BE DEMORALIZED BY ORDER TO PASS THROUGH THE EPICENTER OF THE RECENT EXPLOSION. And not nonsense about the consequences of exposure to people, as some here lie.
            1. Kaiten
              Kaiten 24 February 2016 12: 25
              -1
              Quote: Svateev
              Indeed, when flying at an altitude of about 10 km, passengers receive a significantly higher dose of radiation than on the ground. But against the American ...

              I'm not an environmentalist, where did you get that. Let's calculate the dose of cosmos. radiation and the dose received by the soldier during the passage of the zone of radiation damage, provided that the soldier was exposed not only to external exposure but there was also a high probability of radioactive dust entering the respiratory organs, since in 1954 the filters were far from perfect, and the use of personal gas masks weaken the harmful effect, but cannot completely eliminate it. Since not all soldiers know how to use a gas mask correctly. As for the American shells, you probably should speak with representatives of this country, because I am not speaking to you, a Russian, on issues related to, for example, Kazakhstan or Armenia.
              1. Svateev
                Svateev 26 February 2016 22: 40
                0
                Quote: Kaiten
                there was a high probability ... were far from perfect ... cannot completely exclude it. Since not all ...

                With high probability, it may very well be that maybe even something that cannot be because far from all were perfect ... wassat
                Quote: Kaiten
                Regarding American shells, you probably should speak with representatives of this country.

                Bah, you have woken up political correctness! In relation to the USA. And you, the Israelite, are allowed to swindle the USSR indiscriminately. am
            2. Kaiten
              Kaiten 24 February 2016 12: 27
              0
              Quote: Svateev
              Yes maybe. But military duty must be performed.

              And the country should not compensate the soldier for harm to health if in this case it happened?
              1. Svateev
                Svateev 26 February 2016 22: 46
                0
                Quote: Kaiten
                And the country should not compensate the soldier for harm to health

                And the country has always done this and continues to do it without your reminders. I have a familiar liquidator of the Chernobyl accident who constantly receives all the necessary medicines and medical care for free. The same thing happens with all disabled military service.
                And you, apparently, are completely different, since you assume that any country can abandon its defender?
  10. Robert Nevsky
    Robert Nevsky 21 February 2016 18: 22
    0
    GREAT COUNTRY OF THE USSR ...
  11. Gr. Engineer
    Gr. Engineer 21 February 2016 22: 09
    -3
    It follows from the article that atomic bombs are completely unsuitable for military use. Moreover, they hardly do any harm, if you do not get too close and do not protrude out of the trench. Why the heck is so much money put into nuclear arsenals? Maybe it was better to hoard high-explosive bombs, napalm, choking gases and plague germs? It is both cheaper and more reliable, and it has been tested. And why is the whole world still so afraid of our "Kuz'kina mother"?
    1. DmitryK
      DmitryK 21 February 2016 23: 59
      +2
      The tests were carried out in order to assess the capabilities and effectiveness of advancing advancing troops in the location of enemy defensive positions that had undergone the impact of nuclear bombing.
      1. Generalissimo
        Generalissimo 22 February 2016 01: 12
        -2
        And why didn’t the population take out or find a place for the more deserted? ;-)
        Note twisted all already Nikitka Sergeich. In 1949, under Dictator-Stalin, it was blown up not among villages.
        1. Kaiten
          Kaiten 22 February 2016 10: 58
          -1
          Quote: Generalissimo
          And why didn’t the population take out or find a place for the more deserted? ;-)

          And then on whom to conduct experiments?
          1. Svateev
            Svateev 23 February 2016 18: 13
            0
            Quote: Kaiten
            And then on whom to conduct experiments?

            Our experiments are carried out on laboratory mice. And you do not?
            1. Kaiten
              Kaiten 23 February 2016 18: 42
              -2
              Quote: Svateev
              Our experiments are carried out on laboratory mice. And you do not?

              And in our country, soldiers are not treated like mice.
              1. Svateev
                Svateev 23 February 2016 21: 05
                0
                Quote: Kaiten
                Quote: Svateev
                Our experiments are carried out on laboratory mice. And you do not?
                And in our country, soldiers are not treated like mice.

                Abram, the answer is not counted! I wrote that they do not treat us like that.
                In addition, now you don’t need to conduct similar exercises - we did everything for you: since our troops passed through the epicenter, then the Jews will pass if necessary.
                But why are you so biased against the USSR? What did he do so bad to you? Share, it’ll become easier yes
                1. Kaiten
                  Kaiten 24 February 2016 12: 14
                  -2
                  Quote: Svateev
                  But why are you so biased against the USSR? What did he do so bad to you? Share, it’ll become easier

                  I prefer to talk on the topic. There are no prejudices, I, by my specialty, have a little connection with the calculation of health risks by chemical, physical and radiation factors, therefore the bright conclusions made by the author of the article seem personally unprofessional to me.
                  1. Svateev
                    Svateev 26 February 2016 23: 09
                    0
                    Quote: Kaiten
                    I prefer to talk on the topic.

                    This is this - "on the topic" ?:
                    Quote: Kaiten
                    Quote: Generalissimo
                    And why didn’t the population take out or find a place for the more deserted? ;-)
                    And then on whom to conduct experiments?

                    And after such a swinish accusation, you declare with your blue eyes that "there are no prejudices against us" ?! Abram, you either have a split personality or an atrophy of conscience.
                    Quote: Kaiten
                    I, in my specialty, have a little connection with the calculation of health risks for chemical, physical and radiation factors,

                    Apparently, they’re very, very slightly connected, because in your posts you don’t see the knowledge of at least the basics of radiology.
        2. Svateev
          Svateev 23 February 2016 18: 10
          0
          Quote: Generalissimo
          And why didn’t the population be taken out

          The article also indicates that they were taken out of dangerous places. Even from potentially dangerous ones - from the corridor where the carrier was walking with an open bomb bay. There is a reasonable limit from where you need to export! The absence of victims confirms that everything was calculated correctly. And the comments here in the style of "I myself am the daughter of an officer and, believe me, it was not like that .." - this is an ordinary psychological war. Internet fucking ...