Military Review

Why I get scared by our patriotism

218
Recently, on the "Military Review" was published my article (Do we need to talk with NATO?) The question that was considered in this article is quite simple. The leadership of the alliance expresses readiness to resume the work of the Russia-NATO Council. Contacts at the command level of NATO and the Ministry of Defense of Russia prior to the 2014 events in Ukraine have always helped to resolve issues arising during combat and training work.


The direct communication of the military departments not only helped to quickly solve problems, but also coordinate the actions of the Armed Forces. Military people - a special caste. At the word "politician" they strain. Well, it is unusual for the military to play up. Yes, and equipment and weapons in the hands of these people are not suitable for jokes.

But today I will not write about my opinion on this issue. Today is completely different. About the patriotism of our readers, who is not only frightening, but terrifying. It becomes terrible from rampant hats.

(Quotes are given without editing! - Ed.)

sir.jonn

Quote: pest
The dialogue may be necessary, but you cannot change your line. There is no confidence in this alliance consisting of jackals who are always ready to cling to your back.

There is no dialogue before changing the rhetoric of the members of the alliance towards the Russian Federation. I understand that they are proud and do not admit mistakes, but at least some of the mongrels inside the alliance are obliged to spank.

Misha Honest

Quote: pest
Dialogue may need

What dialogue can be with someone who has already gotten on the rails of war? Remember, let's learn the lessons of the Second World War, how we agreed with Hitler and how it all ended! The only question is, when is it all babahnet and will we have time to prepare?
Meaning to agree - if so and so the knife in the back is provided?


Tambov Wolf

What kind of dialogue? It is necessary to finish off everything in Syria. He is stronger than he and he is right. The new government will do it. And in general, the winner writes history.

Guys, I understand that you didn’t have to hear for yourself how the projectile is rustling or tearing the ears of a close rupture of a mine. I understand that thanks to the media, including myself, you probably have the impression that we now have an Army. Not the one that was under Yeltsin, but a new one. Modern and able to punish any aggressor.

Not even a year has passed since we unanimously applauded the new tanks, BMP, armored personnel carriers, aircraft. The grand parade that made the world see our new army. Really great achievements of our scientists, designers, engineers, workers.

But where is all this miracle technology today? What are our VKS fighting? Alas, the fact that created a long time ago. "Armata" a great tank. But your son will not serve "Armatu", but an old, time-tested and enemy T-72 shells with some additional letters or T-90, again with letters.

And he will run along the training ground not with the “Abakan”, but with the old “Kalash” or SVD. At the same time shoot Soviet, at best, the release of the end of the last century, ammunition.

For example, I advise you to see what our Black Sea Fleet is capable of today. The one that showed itself so beautifully when firing rockets from the Mediterranean. In the event of an emergency, our Black Sea Fleet will cope only with the Turkish fleet. And with big losses. Up to 30% of ships and personnel. With losses of the Turkish fleet up to 50%.

But it is necessary to enter the Black Sea, for example, the Americans, respectively, to enter several strike groups of ships, as our fleet will disappear in a week.

I understand that now someone is actively grinning and recalling the nuclear button. Do not dare! And who told you that they would not dare? Why don't you ask yourself such a question? Dare or not dare?

Moreover, I got the impression that some readers already agreed to fight.

rotmistr60

We are not striving for confrontation with Russia and for a new "cold war," we want to avoid a new "cold war."

When it comes to a possible armed conflict between one of the NATO countries and Russia, talking about the reluctance of the cold war is somehow even indecent. And if you listen to what the General Secretary said earlier, it seems that they are just trying to put down our guard. But this is designed for fools and can not in any way blush the eyes of Russia.

Mikhail Krapivin

And there are no options. Either that, or on the knee-elbow, and a kind black gentleman will even allow you to use Vaseline so that it is not very painful.

Are you really ready to place your children under the bombs and missiles? It is children and moms. The soldier, paradoxically, even on the front line is better protected than the civilian population. The soldier will survive. And the rest?

Two years we have been writing about Donbass. Two years there is a daily death. With all that war there is more often "for the commander." Both sides on duty drive the RDG to the rear of each other, on duty fire from machine guns and machine guns in the direction of the enemy. And these are fighters who have been proven in battle. For such a fighter, this is not a war. This is a completely ordinary life. And the outputs on the position he perceives as a way out. Only before going down to the bottom, and now to the trench. And the rest is all exactly the same. AND weapon there is not modern, and the time of the king of peas. Even T-34 and KV-3 are still, as far as I know, in the ranks.

And now look at the loss. For one dead soldier several civilians. Is it all so difficult to see?

But it would be wrong to talk only about ... those who do not want to think. That our resource is good that clever and thinking people have gathered here. People are well aware of the problems of the military-industrial complex for a long time serving in the troops, who took part in hostilities.

Cap.Morgan

Our troops repeatedly entered the European capitals. We were not only in London and Rome. Although in the Italian seas, a Russian soldier was washing his boots.
In this case, we have always been in alliance with any major European powers.
Europe has never been united. Union with one part against the other is the key to success.


partizan86

Hotline must be, so that one of the parties did not suspect the other in a complete loss of understanding and preparation for war. Of course, it is necessary to prepare for any situations and to stockpile modern weapons, but at the very least for a collision in neutral territory with someone else’s hands. Such countries as the USA, Russia and China should never fight with each other head-on, because the result is obvious to all. Both in our country and in the West this is well understood by all these military and political games, intimidating people with threats of invasion, everything is more for the public, for the sake of raising the political rating, for getting money out of the budget, for creating a basis for establishing more appropriate legislation for leaders. Ultimately for the sake of money and power. All performances for the people, in order to distract from other problems. But here, as if not to beat, and even not only the people can believe. Americans and ours mostly outplay, I do not take Europe into account, they have not grown. But all this is still at the level of small politicians who are not worthy of special attention, although it remains there. Here the Chinese in such a plan behave more wisely and with restraint, do not climb anywhere.

Especially for those in a hurry to scribble: "Author coward and alarmist." Sometimes such patriots are more terrible than enemies. Such people were sent to death by hundreds, thousands of people. Soldiers who could win. But died stupid. By the will of the great patriot commander. And the author is really a coward. And he realized this in the first battle. Therefore, the fight was not one.

No one has ever lived forever. All people die once. And because the time of death is not particularly important. More precisely, it is important not when you die, but how.

Today, at this very minute, as you read these lines, someone is thinking about how to make us kneel. How to undermine our economy. How to destroy human resources. How to destroy the pride of the winners. That pride that is transmitted from us from father to son.

In the 20 century, Europe experienced two world wars. Two times cities, factories, factories, institutes were destroyed. How many Einsteins and Queens fell into the ground. How many children were not born.

Yes, our grandfathers marched through the streets of European cities. Yes, our banner fluttered over the Reichstag. But those who perished in the fire of war, you will not return. And I had to build everything first. From the foundation. But they could just finish building new workshops, continue the already started scientific developments. Children could walk with their grandparents.

And now think: are your comments patriotic? Are you patriots of Russia? So far, in the history of mankind, there is only one country, which was richer out of both wars. And with minimal losses. And the biggest battles on its territory are fights at some ranch between Indians with bows and cowboys with revolvers. The terrible battles that the inhabitants of this country annually celebrate as great battles.

I do not know whether Solovyov said his own phrase in one of his programs, or quoted someone, but I will repeat it with pleasure. "Russia does not like to fight. But it does it better than anyone in the world." Therefore, if you are truly a patriot of Russia, today is the time of the first sentence. Everyone should know that we do not like to fight. And we will do everything to prevent war. But the second part must be constantly shown. Not only we are able, but there is something. And, most importantly, to whom.

And to fight not screaming on the Internet.

PS I specifically left without editing the comments of our readers. How to write and read.
Author:
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  1. 24rus
    24rus 12 February 2016 12: 02
    42
    I remember Yeltsin turned to NATO for membership. He was told that Russia would not be accepted because then the concept and meaning of NATO would disappear
    1. The comment was deleted.
      1. oldseaman1957
        oldseaman1957 12 February 2016 12: 23
        22
        Quote: Valera
        Stalin wanted to join this organization, but he was punished.
        - What does NATO have to do with it? An article on how adequately we, readers, evaluate the state of our country, and how we react to it. And, it is felt that we do not always combine our desires and reality.
        1. Scoun
          Scoun 12 February 2016 12: 37
          17
          Quote: oldseaman1957
          And, it is felt that we do not always combine our desires and reality.

          Hence the "sofa troops" and "sofa generals" were born. )))
          PS
          The media are also to blame if you open news sites, they are overwhelmingly full of negative news headlines and some (depending on who prefers what topics and HE assumes a military theme) breaks the tower and there is a desire to wave a hand with words and burn with blue flame.
          On economic, technical and other forums there is a bias and a background of sentiment.
          In general, it should be borne in mind that the site is still Military Partiotic with the corresponding readership)))
          1. Ramzaj99
            Ramzaj99 12 February 2016 12: 59
            39
            Quote: Scoun
            The leadership of the alliance expresses its readiness to resume the work of the Russia-NATO Council. Contacts at the level of the command of NATO and the Ministry of Defense of Russia before the events of 2014 in Ukraine have always helped to resolve issues arising during the combat and training work.

            The author is not in the subject at all. How can you write such articles without completely understanding what you are writing.
            NATO categorically refuses ANY contacts. They are ready to start negotiations only on what they need. ANY requests from Russia are not even considered. Even contacts that were far from military topics on drug trafficking from Afghanistan were terminated and categorically refused to resume cooperation. There is no question of any resumption of COOPERATION. They insist that Russia comply with NATO instructions, that’s all cooperation. The author is BOLD minus.
            1. Scoun
              Scoun 12 February 2016 13: 30
              +3
              Quote: Ramzaj99
              Quote: Scoun
              The leadership of the alliance expresses its readiness to resume the work of the Russia-NATO Council. Contacts at the level of the command of NATO and the Ministry of Defense of Russia before the events of 2014 in Ukraine have always helped to resolve issues arising during the combat and training work.

              The author is not in the subject at all. How can you write such articles without completely understanding what you are writing.
              NATO categorically refuses ANY contacts. They are ready to start negotiations only on what they need. ANY requests from Russia are not even considered. Even contacts that were far from military topics on drug trafficking from Afghanistan were terminated and categorically refused to resume cooperation. There is no question of any resumption of COOPERATION. They insist that Russia comply with NATO instructions, that’s all cooperation. The author is BOLD minus.

              Comrad, did you assign me in a strange way? ))) this is not my "quote". )))
              1. Ramzaj99
                Ramzaj99 12 February 2016 13: 51
                +1
                Quote: Scoun
                this is not my "quote". )))

                Sorry comrade, and was not thinking))) Somehow it happened by chance))
              2. The comment was deleted.
            2. Inok10
              Inok10 12 February 2016 13: 32
              26
              Quote: Ramzaj99
              The author is not in the subject at all. How can you write such articles without completely understanding what you are writing.
              NATO categorically refuses ANY contacts.

              ... absolutely right ... contacts begin only when NATO has "something went wrong" a vivid example of Syria ... I carefully read the article three times ... there is a grain of sound in it .. do not shout " attack "," we'll tear everyone up "... but some of the author's passages just kill ... quote:
              For example, I advise you to look at what our Black Sea Fleet is capable of today. The one that showed itself so beautifully when firing rockets from the Mediterranean. In the event of a contingency, our Black Sea Fleet will cope only with the Turkish fleet. And with great losses. Up to 30% of ships and personnel. With the loss of the Turkish fleet to 50%.
              But it is necessary to enter the Black Sea, for example, the Americans, respectively, to enter several strike groups of ships, as our fleet will disappear in a week.

              ... ????????? ... firstly not the Black Sea, Caspian flotilla! ... here as they say there is nothing to comment ... ah, they will not enter the Baltic? ... or is NATO fighting with us in the Black Sea, but in the Baltic we have peace and chewing gum with them? .. and in general the Baltic theater of operations, as well as the Black Sea theater, is not only ships, but also naval aviation, coastal missile systems ... this is a combination of means and forces interacting closely in the maintenance of the database ... further, the author can refer me to those who I’m ready to attack and it’ll even be right and I don’t mind ... just write such an article while living in Komsomolsk-on-Amur is one thing, and I Kaliningraders should read it while living surrounded by NATO countries and the constant screech of the same Lithuania and Poland, the creation of NATO’s rapid deployment points in Poland and Lithuania are different ... I won’t have time to reason and wait for the agenda ... just physically ... the distance from Kaliningrad to NATO’s borders does not exceed 100 km. and Kaliningraders are really ready at any moment, at least the majority ... because of this I feel scared from the patriotism of the author ... I have the honor ... soldier
              1. Ramzaj99
                Ramzaj99 12 February 2016 14: 09
                20
                Inok10 agree.
                And I will even add that SOME of them would not even have a thought, that they want to negotiate with us. Whoever ever heard that our President, or even whoever of the "top" politicians, called the Americans or NATO military opponents, or at least enemies ????
                The American president in his speech called Russia the enemy number two, after the terrorists. THE ENEMY, not the enemy, not the enemy - THE ENEMY !!!
                The head of the Pentagon in his speech called Russia the most dangerous ENEMY.
                The head of NATO called Russia, an external ENEMY !!
                We have been FRIENDS with NATO since the 90s, and nothing but gain, moreover gain in the concrete, does not happen there.
                Wake up !!! They do not negotiate with enemies, they are destroyed !! And the sooner this comes to us, the easier it will be in the future.
                1. Grandfather Luka
                  Grandfather Luka 13 February 2016 15: 18
                  -2
                  But what about the military trick? Do not get excited. We’ll give them all, with feeling, with sense, with the arrangement, without losses of 30 million. person. Everything will be fine!
              2. The comment was deleted.
              3. demos1111
                demos1111 12 February 2016 14: 21
                +9
                I completely agree with you. I feel the same way in Minsk. The author talks about the loss of civilians, and how much we have already lost (Russian people in the Baltic states in the same Ukraine). They are already killing us and have already been killed almost less than in the past great wars.
                And these are beyond the puddle, in which not one bomb has fallen into the garden, it is necessary to give a lesson.
                1. Inok10
                  Inok10 12 February 2016 15: 19
                  +4
                  Quote: demos1111
                  I completely agree with you. I also feel in Minsk.

                  . hi ... and soon Karelia and the Leningrad Region will add to Minsk, which is worried, taking into account the pace of dragging Sweden and Finland into NATO ... frankly almost declare Georgia’s membership ... provide a springboard for the galloping and screaming Ukraine ... then it’s just right to call everything by their proper names looking at the map of the European theater:
                  Karelian front
                  Baltic front
                  The Western Front
                  Ukrainian front
                  Caucasian front
                  ... we just look at the map ... the solid red borders of NATO exist, the dotted line is what they want to see in the next 3-5 years ... who still has illusions about talking with NATO? ... hi
                2. Theline
                  Theline 12 February 2016 15: 30
                  +2
                  Put the warhead in your backpack and ride overseas, teacher. There is such a wonderful law: for any action, there is opposition.
                  I agree with the author of the article: the government provides the enemy through the media, the people are ready to put up with the worthless situation in the country. it's all because of the enemy.
                  But the states will not collide with each other with each other (I think there is no need to explain why)
                  Only time can judge everyone.
            3. gergi
              gergi 12 February 2016 14: 13
              +6
              Many of us have heard shells and other funny sounds. What the staver did not hear there, I do not know. Enough to love the rotten west, love your holy Russia. The West showed its mug without hesitation. Enemies! And the enemy is good when he is dead. author of kazel.
              1. Theline
                Theline 12 February 2016 15: 34
                +2
                First decide who the enemy is. Obama probably? Well, yes, he takes away pensions from the elderly and raises gas prices in Russia. And the road breaks. And it establishes corruption among security officials. And the oligarchs are fruiting. And makes bureaucrats steal money. And judicial arbitrariness suits. Does not give all Russian veterans of the Second World War normal housing. And the Russian outbacks remain outbacks, since he steals money from Russia and does not allow them to develop (in some cases, even firewood is not delivered to some villages in winter, you can simply keep silent about the gasification of such places.): D
                1. Dart2027
                  Dart2027 12 February 2016 19: 29
                  +3
                  Quote: TheLine
                  First decide who the enemy is. Obama probably? Well, yes, he takes away pensions from the elderly

                  In the 90s all this was already shouted, but what’s interesting is that after coming to power all these defenders of pensioners, doctors, children and veterans fulfilled only half of what was promised. That is, they destroyed the army and surrendered everything that they could, and those who shed burning tears at the rallies - they spat.
                  Yes, the country has internal problems. And these are serious problems. And they need to be solved and this is gradually being done.
                  But attempts to distract from foreign policy problems with shouts about internal ones no longer work.
                  And the enemy is not Obama, he is just a talking head, and those who are behind him. The enemy is the US elite. This is geopolitics - nothing personal.
                  1. Theline
                    Theline 13 February 2016 06: 40
                    -1
                    And for whom is the enemy? I have written before what a state is. If these "US elites" and opponents, then only the Russian state, not Russia.

                    And I am saddened by your vision of events. Internal problems are the primary problems that need to be addressed. And the media are only engaged in what foreign policy is presented as the main ones. Because internal decisions are difficult, and why if the people tolerate, right?
                    1. Dart2027
                      Dart2027 13 February 2016 08: 21
                      +1
                      Quote: TheLine
                      And for whom is the enemy? I have written before what a state is. If these "US elites" and opponents, then only the Russian state, not Russia.

                      Yes Yes Yes. Hitler sang this song, he supposedly fights not with Russians, but with communism. And Gorbachev also fought with the state. And many others shouted that they say for the people. Already passed.
                      The USA is a geopolitical enemy for Russia. The rest is demagogy.
                      Quote: TheLine
                      And I am saddened by your vision of events.

                      It happens. I dare to hope not only mine.
                      Quote: TheLine
                      And the media are only engaged in what foreign policy is presented as the main ones. Because
                      in order to have someone to decide the domestic need for the country to exist and be independent.
                      Especially when you consider that most of the current problems are the result of "reforms" carried out by traitors under the leadership of American advisers.
                      1. Theline
                        Theline 13 February 2016 09: 18
                        +2
                        Your country exists and is not dependent. Are the issues resolved?
                        Most of the current problems are a consequence of the actions of the current bureaucrats and other people in senior positions. If any Lidia Ivanovna, being the head physician, does not give the salary to the hospital staff, and in addition receives the rate of 2 medical registrars (there are 5 of them working on the paper, but actually 3), then yes, Obama is to blame.
                      2. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 13 February 2016 10: 05
                        0
                        Quote: TheLine
                        Your country exists and is not dependent. Are the issues resolved?

                        Dare. There is something to compare then and now.
                        Quote: TheLine
                        Most of the current problems are a consequence of the actions of the current bureaucrats and other people in senior positions.

                        That's just the system that creates all these problems created then. And to cut off the shoulder will not work, because for at least a dozen years the country will be in complete chaos. So gradually, the order is put in order. And that is typical without prejudice to the resources allocated to the fight against terrorists created by the CIA.
                      3. Theline
                        Theline 15 February 2016 07: 03
                        0
                        Well, if you describe to me what specific actions are being taken, I will be glad. Just as far as I know, if there are any problems caused by arrogance of people, then only a smaller part of them will be solved, but not all problems gradually, as you wrote. This is not the norm.
                      4. Dart2027
                        Dart2027 15 February 2016 11: 56
                        0
                        Quote: TheLine
                        Well, if you describe to me what specific actions are being taken, I will be glad.

                        Comparing what happened in the 90s and what is now - the difference is obvious. Read the specifics here:
                        http://sdelanounas.ru/
                        Quote: TheLine
                        Just as far as I know, if there are any problems caused by arrogance of people

                        What problems do you have in mind?
        2. UralMan
          UralMan 12 February 2016 16: 07
          +2
          Quote: gergi
          Enough to love the rotten west, love your holy Russia.

          That's right ... enough of the pseudo-European values ​​that we are stuffed with every hour. Say - this is EUROPE. And you are someone so backyard.
          Ponder the words of the cunning FIRST CHANCELLOR OF THE GERMAN EMPIRE, CALLED AFTER THE "IRON CHANCELLOR" and VERY WELL-KNOWN RUSSIA AND THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE - this is Otto von Bismarck
          “It’s impossible to win Russians, we have seen this for hundreds of years. But Russians can be instilled in false values ​​and then they will win themselves. ”
          -------
          1. Fat
            Fat 12 February 2016 20: 55
            +1
            Quote: UralChel
            Quote: gergi
            Enough to love the rotten west, love your holy Russia.

            That's right ... enough of the pseudo-European values ​​that we are stuffed with every hour. Say - this is EUROPE. And you are someone so backyard.
            Ponder the words of the cunning FIRST CHANCELLOR OF THE GERMAN EMPIRE, CALLED AFTER THE "IRON CHANCELLOR" and VERY WELL-KNOWN RUSSIA AND THE RUSSIAN PEOPLE - this is Otto von Bismarck
            “It’s impossible to win Russians, we have seen this for hundreds of years. But Russians can be instilled in false values ​​and then they will win themselves. ”
            -------

            You "+". But Britain is not Europe (1). Why would Peter have to "cut through the window" ..., therefore, Russia is not Europe (2). Von Bismarck - (what is cited here?) - an apologist for Eurocentrism.
      2. BIGLESHIY
        BIGLESHIY 12 February 2016 14: 31
        +6
        Quote: Ramzaj99
        The author is not in the subject at all. How can you write such articles without completely understanding what you are writing.

        Yesterday I heard on Radio Rossiya the news that the NATO-Russia Council ceased to exist at the initiative of NATO. I do not know how reliable the information is, but this advice has not worked for a long time.
        And it’s not for me, not for my son, not for my grandson, not for my great-grandson not to run around with the ABAKAN. I advise the author to closely monitor the development of weapons.
      3. nrex
        nrex 12 February 2016 14: 40
        +7
        But it does not mean. that you need to stop the dialogue, close or start waving a nuclear club.
      4. gladcu2
        gladcu2 12 February 2016 16: 29
        +4
        Ramzaj

        No one discusses joining NATO or dialogue with them, in the article. We are talking about the adequacy of VO readers. Which are often stupid than reasonable. And this is manifested in their comments.

        Did you read the author’s article yourself?
      5. cap
        cap 12 February 2016 17: 52
        0
        Quote: Ramzaj99

        The author is not in the subject at all. How can you write such articles without completely understanding what you are writing.
        NATO categorically refuses ANY contacts. They are ready to start negotiations only on what they need. ANY requests from Russia are not even considered. Even contacts that were far from military topics on drug trafficking from Afghanistan were terminated and categorically refused to resume cooperation. There is no question of any resumption of COOPERATION. They insist that Russia comply with NATO instructions, that’s all cooperation. The author is BOLD minus.


        The author has two FAT minuses, and the wish to celebrate cowboy holidays on the Indian reservation, the United States will be good for him there, judging by the text of the article. "Are you patriots of Russia? So far in the history of mankind there is only one country that came out of both wars richer. And with minimal losses. And the biggest battles in its territory are battles at a ranch between Indians with bows and cowboys with revolvers. Terrible battles, which the inhabitants of this country annually celebrate as great battles. "
        The site is just patriots, but what kind of wind brought the author, it is not clear. In the title, the word "our" should be replaced with "your". Since the author is "not our" person.
        1. Cat man null
          Cat man null 12 February 2016 18: 08
          +3
          Are you a patriot of Russia? So far, in the history of mankind there is only one country that emerged richer from both wars. And with minimal loss. And the largest battles on its territory are fights at some ranch between Indians with bows and cowboys with revolvers. The terrible battles that the inhabitants of this country annually celebrate as great battles

          Will I translate, can I? A patriot of his country is obliged to think with his head before stupidly breaking (or calling others to stupidly breaking) his head into the wall.

          Therefore, shouts like "we will destroy the USA", "we will shower the Turks with vigorous bonbs", etc. - in fact, they have no relationship to patriotism .. but to slight insanity - yes, maybe ..

          You’ll be surprised, probably laughing
          1. Army1
            Army1 12 February 2016 19: 25
            0
            Quote: Cat Man Null
            Are you a patriot of Russia? So far, in the history of mankind there is only one country that emerged richer from both wars. And with minimal loss. And the largest battles on its territory are fights at some ranch between Indians with bows and cowboys with revolvers. The terrible battles that the inhabitants of this country annually celebrate as great battles

            Will I translate, can I? A patriot of his country is obliged to think with his head before stupidly breaking (or calling others to stupidly breaking) his head into the wall.

            Therefore, shouts like "we will destroy the USA", "we will shower the Turks with vigorous bonbs", etc. - in fact, they have no relationship to patriotism .. but to slight insanity - yes, maybe ..

            You’ll be surprised, probably laughing

            Personally, I am a Patriot of Russia and I wish her prosperity, but I hate those who, being with iPhones and computers on Windows, say that America is gov "but. Nobody asks to love the USA, they did not give us such a reason. I am for doing better in Russia in all criteria.This is Patriotism.All great people say learn from enemies and do better.
      6. Fat
        Fat 12 February 2016 20: 17
        +1
        Quote: Ramzaj99
        There is no question of any resumption of COOPERATION. They insist that Russia comply with NATO instructions, that’s all cooperation. The author is BOLD minus.

        Contrary to your opinion. There may be others. All the political and military rhetoric of the USA is aimed at increasing the efforts of the states and the Russian Federation in the field of "defense." So where are the threats? the notorious "oil"? For example, the USA and the Russian Federation have "above average" hydrocarbon reserves. What are we sharing? So there is nothing to share. All "opposition" is so "lazy" that one involuntarily comes across the thought that it is "artificial". Reagan once noted that the USSR and the United States can have a "common enemy" only in the event of an alien invasion. Nonsense, of course, but, excuse me, I simply cannot understand the moronism of the F-35 and other state programs in another way. All this is IMHO. BUT ... LOGIC IS PRESENT. However, today is Friday, during the week heats up the paranoid mood. drinks what
      7. Grandfather Luka
        Grandfather Luka 13 February 2016 14: 44
        0
        The author probably wanted to remind what AV Suvorov taught his fighters: "Keep your feet warm and your head cold."
    2. Sunseich
      Sunseich 12 February 2016 13: 05
      -3
      “Import substitution is interpreted as protection of the exclusive rights to shear local sheep.
      Although originally proposed as work to improve the palatability of a local herb. "
    3. Patton5
      Patton5 12 February 2016 13: 34
      +4
      and for some (depending on who prefers what topic and HE assumes a military theme) they break the tower and there is a desire to wave their hand with the words “burn all with blue flame”.
      you should think about the consequences like this, here’s a video on the topic ... what if ...
    4. Cripple cross
      Cripple cross 12 February 2016 13: 36
      +7
      Quote: Scoun
      Hence the "sofa troops" and "sofa generals" were born

      And what are you, Comrade Marshal, poking at the generals?
      And the marshals aside ??? AND??? laughing
      1. Scoun
        Scoun 12 February 2016 14: 08
        +6
        Quote: CrippleCross
        Quote: Scoun
        Hence the "sofa troops" and "sofa generals" were born

        And what are you, Comrade Marshal, poking at the generals?
        And the marshals aside ??? AND??? laughing

        And I just tried to imagine a "couch marshal" and "hovered"))) "couch marshal" is already cutting continents, resettling peoples and England is definitely not there)))
        laughing
        1. BIGLESHIY
          BIGLESHIY 12 February 2016 14: 37
          +3
          Quote: Scoun
          Quote: CrippleCross
          Quote: Scoun
          Hence the "sofa troops" and "sofa generals" were born

          And what are you, Comrade Marshal, poking at the generals?
          And the marshals aside ??? AND??? laughing

          And I just tried to imagine a "couch marshal" and "hovered"))) "couch marshal" is already cutting continents, resettling peoples and England is definitely not there)))
          laughing

          I'm afraid to imagine what will happen to you if you imagine the couch generalissimo laughing
    5. DMB3000
      DMB3000 12 February 2016 13: 36
      +7
      people who did not serve, buying military men for linden diseases, do not have the right to work in government agencies, because they have already betrayed their homeland once. and when they get power, they start selling it piece by piece. that's what really happens.
      1. cap
        cap 12 February 2016 18: 00
        0
        Quote: DMB3000
        people who did not serve, buying military men for linden diseases, do not have the right to work in government agencies, because they have already betrayed their homeland once. and when they get power, they start selling it piece by piece. that's what really happens.

        I put a plus. Click on the plus did not pass. I decided to write good
      2. your1970
        your1970 12 February 2016 20: 27
        +1
        Are you firmly convinced that those who served in the army - then, having received power, they don’t start selling it piece by piece?
      3. Corvetkapitan
        Corvetkapitan 13 February 2016 17: 14
        0
        The problem is actually deeper. You look at those who walk the streets of Moscow with Ukrainian flags. You didn’t think about who these people would go to war on if they had a war ?! Yes, they will all shoot Russian soldiers in the back, and those who served in military service and those who were recognized as limited in peacetime and were not called to urgent, but will be called upon to mobilize in case of war. These same people are now probably engaged in sabotage and sabotage activities in Russia, set fire to forests in the summer, engaged in sabotage in production, and then warehouses burn, then forests, then missiles fall, for unknown reasons ... These are Bandera, who hate everything that is connected with the Russian Federation, and if you add to them other Nazis and Islamic terrorists who came to the Russian Federation from the former USSR. I’ve recently been traveling by public transport and I see one such one with a tattoo on his arm, and the tattoo is not simple, these tattoos were made by Islamic militants who fought against the Russian Federation on the side of Dudaev. The FMS of the Russian Federation works exceptionally badly, turning the Russian Federation into a passage yard for foreigners of all stripes.
    6. Misha Honest
      Misha Honest 12 February 2016 13: 37
      17
      Misha Honest

      Quote: pest
      Dialogue may need

      What dialogue can be with someone who has already gotten on the rails of war? Remember, let's learn the lessons of the Second World War, how we agreed with Hitler and how it all ended! The only question is, when is it all babahnet and will we have time to prepare?
      Meaning to agree - if so and so the knife in the back is provided?

      Dear Alexander Staver, I perfectly understand your position and partially agree with her. However, not Russia is imposing a war, but it is being imposed on us! How can you even agree with someone who is confident in his victory and who wants war, who wants to destroy us and occupy our Siberian lands and territories - do you propose giving up right away ?! And sooner or later (better, of course, late), we will be dragged into it one way or another, regardless of whether we want it or not. The only question is where for each of us is that very red line that we cannot retreat beyond. For me personally, this line has already been crossed in connection with the US actions on the outskirts. And in the event of war, we will all become soldiers one way or another. Although, you’re right - I didn’t smell enough gunpowder. But I am not ready to step back and forgive everyone who gives me a slap in the face for a slap, and even a blow under my breath.
      I also agree that our army is not yet ready for a full-fledged war against NATO. However, when will she be ready at all? Most likely never - please remember our history - have we ever been ready for war ?! Do you really think that one day the supreme will say: "We are ready - we are starting?"
      1. nrex
        nrex 12 February 2016 14: 48
        +2
        That is how much we can delay the moment "H" so much and we need to work in this direction and make every effort to prevent the irreparable. Look at your children and grandchildren. Think !!! What are they to blame?
        1. Misha Honest
          Misha Honest 12 February 2016 15: 02
          +3
          Quote: nrex
          Look at your children and grandchildren. Think !!! What are they to blame?

          For the West, first of all, their children are more important, but they do not care about ours. Our children are already to blame for them that they are Russian! And that means they will be given a lie - except as slaves.
      2. your1970
        your1970 12 February 2016 20: 47
        -1
        The situation, to put it mildly, is different - the unpreparedness for the current war makes the war unpromising in terms of victory.
        A living example is the Donbass. The lack of modern forces / means does not allow victory either of the LPR (unfortunately) or the Armed Forces of Ukraine (fortunately). It may take five, and ten years, children / old people / women die.
        The death of civilians on the example of Afghanistan:
        On June 7 of June 1988, in his speech at a meeting of the UN General Assembly, the President of Afghanistan M. Najibullah said that “from the beginning of hostilities in 1978 to the present day” (that is, until 7.06.1988), 243,9 thousand government troops were killed in the country, security agencies, civil servants and civilians, including 208,2 thousand men, 35,7 thousand women and 20,7 thousand children under the age of 10 years; 77 thousand people were injured, including 17,1 thousand women and 900 children under the age of 10
        Various sources estimate the loss of up to 1,5 million civilians, of course, of course, I believe Najibullah more, but the order of numbers speaks for itself.
        And this is with the complete absence of the spirits of tanks, aircraft and heavy artillery ..
        In the event of a war with NATO, even if not nuclear, much more civilians will die (dozens of times!).
        Does it make sense to fight, if no one (in general!) Remains behind our back?

        And the author is right in terms of the lack of modern weapons in our army. How old is the MI-24? And is it still the main combat helicopter? Tanks? Yes, there are, but obviously not so modern that they would allow breaking any armored enemy. Kalashnikov? Generally a separate song ...
        1. Misha Honest
          Misha Honest 12 February 2016 22: 43
          -1
          Quote: your1970
          The situation, to put it mildly, is different - the unpreparedness for the current war makes the war unpromising in terms of victory.
          A living example is the Donbass. The lack of modern forces / means does not allow victory either of the LPR (unfortunately) or the Armed Forces of Ukraine (fortunately). It may take five, and ten years, children / old people / women die.

          Sorry - this is nonsense. It’s not “the lack of modern forces / means does not allow us to win,” but the fact that for some reason Russia is stupid over and over again because of geopolitics and stops Donetsk and Lugansk guys with all sorts of “Minsk”. Otherwise, the militias would have been in Kueva long ago.
          Quote: your1970
          On June 7, 1988, in his speech at a meeting of the UN General Assembly, the President of Afghanistan M. Najibullah said that "from the start of hostilities in 1978 to the present" (that is, until June 7.06.1988, 243,9) 208,2 thousand people died in the country. military personnel of government forces, security agencies, civil servants and civilians, including 35,7 thousand men, 20,7 thousand women and 10 thousand children under the age of 77 years; 17,1 thousand more people were injured, including 900 thousand women and 10 children under the age of XNUMX
          Various sources estimate the loss of up to 1,5 million civilians, of course, of course, I believe Najibullah more, but the order of numbers speaks for itself.
          And this is with the complete absence of the spirits of tanks, aircraft and heavy artillery ..

          And what other figures could there be if our soldiers fought with half the population of Afghanistan? You would at least once talk to those people who fought there - you would listen to the truth.
          Quote: your1970
          In the event of a war with NATO, even if not nuclear, much more civilians will die (dozens of times!).
          Does it make sense to fight, if no one (in general!) Remains behind our back?

          I understand that, but do you suggest just taking it and giving it up? The Yankees only need a territory from us, and they simply reduce (destroy) the extra population. But you will personally live if you run them to lick their heels.
          Quote: your1970
          And the author is right in terms of the lack of modern weapons in our army. How old is the MI-24? And is it still the main combat helicopter? Tanks? Yes, there are, but obviously not so modern that they would allow breaking any armored enemy. Kalashnikov? Generally a separate song ...

          You can see right away that in military technology you are a complete ignoramus - so as not to distract me with unnecessary writings about this, please talk to at least one friend of the military or those who served. He will explain to you what is happening and how it really is.
          1. your1970
            your1970 12 February 2016 23: 56
            +1
            Misha Honest
            For which I do not like individual "tavarisches" on "VO" - for the instant gluing of labels - "in military equipment you are a complete layman" - and that's it, I'm already happy ... And my 9 years of military service is down the drain ...
            Now the points
            1) "Stops Donetsk and Lugansk guys with all sorts of" Minsk ". Otherwise, the militias would have been in Kuevo long ago." Okay. Now read carefully what I wrote and the answer - who stops the APU from destroying the LPR ?. Right now, there will be a screech-aaa, he is for the puppies, but for a second: the Ukrainian Armed Forces is trying to somehow fight without the support of aviation AT ALL-that put the regular army (albeit rabble) on the level of the irregular. In fact, two actually partisan armies are fighting
            2) "And what other figures could there be if our soldiers fought with half of the population of Afghanistan? You would at least once talk with those people who fought there - you would listen to the truth." Okay, I'll just note that I was late THERE for two days because of vaccinations - our call was not sent anymore. So for talking and listening to the truth is not for me, I already know repeat ... 14 dead SA soldiers against a million civilians (even against the Najibovskys' 000 thousand women and children) is exactly what I said, "And this is in the complete absence of tanks, aircraft and heavy artillery in the spirits" - NATO has it all. how many will die with such proportions of our peaceful children and women in hostilities involving NATO countries?
            3) "I understand that, but you propose to just take and surrender? The Yankees only need territory from us, and they will simply reduce (destroy) the surplus population. But you personally will live if you run to lick their heels." I remembered who he was talking to - with the serious guy Misha.
            MISHA — since I judge people’s affairs, not their boltology — GDP, unlike you, understands the whole danger of drawing the Russian Federation into a full-scale war (and it doesn’t matter where !! if only they fought, the main task for the US / NATO military-industrial complex).
            I hope that with God's help, the GDP of Russia will lead past the war ..

            ZY according to the first VUS - an artilleryman (2С3), according to the second - a sound meter of artillery reconnaissance (AZK-5), from the third - he was forced to know the whole stuffing repeat MI-8 / MI-24 (helicopter regiment) is the question of the profane
            1. Misha Honest
              Misha Honest 13 February 2016 01: 06
              0
              Quote: your1970
              For which I do not like individual "tavarisches" on "VO" - for the instant gluing of labels - "in military equipment you are a complete layman" - and that's it, I'm already happy ... And my 9 years of military service is down the drain ...

              I did not stick labels, but suggested.
              Quote: your1970
              1) "Stops Donetsk and Lugansk guys with all sorts of" Minsk ". Otherwise, the militias would have been in Kuevo long ago." Okay. Now read carefully what I wrote and the answer - who stops the APU from destroying the LPR ?. Right now, there will be a screech-aaa, he is for the puppies, but for a second: the Ukrainian Armed Forces is trying to somehow fight without the support of aviation AT ALL-that put the regular army (albeit rabble) on the level of the irregular. In fact, two actually partisan armies are fighting

              I agree. Only Kiev "partisans" have obvious problems with motivation and fighting spirit, and this solves quite a lot, I think.
              Quote: your1970
              2) "And what other numbers could there be if our soldiers fought with half of the population of Afghanistan? You would at least once talk with those people who fought there - you would listen to the truth." Okay. Let me just note that I was late THERE for two days because of vaccinations - our call was not sent anymore. So for talking and listening to the truth is not for me, I already know. 14 dead SA soldiers against a million civilians (even against Nadzhibovsky's 000 women and children) is exactly what I said, "And this is in the complete absence of tanks, aircraft and heavy artillery in the spirits" - NATO has it all. how many will die with such proportions of our peaceful children and women in hostilities with the participation of NATO countries?

              A lot, a lot, and if we give up and raise our paws to the top, then - even more, if not all. In addition, Russians are already dying a lot - on the outskirts.
              Quote: your1970
              3) "I understand that, but you propose to just take and surrender? The Yankees only need territory from us, and they will simply reduce (destroy) the surplus population. But you personally will live if you run to lick their heels." I remembered who he was talking to - with the serious guy Misha.
              MISHA — since I judge people’s affairs, not their boltology — GDP, unlike you, understands the whole danger of drawing the Russian Federation into a full-scale war (and it doesn’t matter where !! if only they fought, the main task for the US / NATO military-industrial complex).
              I hope that with God's help, the GDP of Russia will lead past the war ..

              I do not call to start a war with NATO, but this does not mean that it is not necessary to prepare for it. And I am against the war as such, but it is unlikely that the United States has any concern for our desires — they apparently have already prepared an action plan for Russia. Unfortunately, the situation in the world is developing in such a way that I do not share your hopes for GDP.
              1. your1970
                your1970 14 February 2016 13: 09
                0
                "Immediately visiblein military technology you are a complete ignoramus - so as not to distract me with unnecessary writing on this matter "

                "I AM didn't stick labels, but suggested "

                A split personality is sadness ....
  2. Blondy
    Blondy 12 February 2016 12: 51
    +3
    Guys, what are you all about NATU and about NATU, have you ever seen women? The main thing here is that the brains are not bent over in a frenzy. In general, in a patriotic impulse, it is not recommended to turn off the safety brains. And for the psychic health of the leadership it is more useful when it is sometimes muzzled on the table (knock dope), at least for the economy and the pace of development, not to mention the personnel policy
  3. Irbis77
    Irbis77 12 February 2016 13: 11
    +5
    Guys, I understand that you yourself did not have to hear a shell rustling or tearing ears near a mine burst. This is from the text. that’s what we understand not badly; that’s exactly what the author wrote about. and the opinions of others have already been indicated to them right away, this is a technique of different authors called *** we all went through and you’re stupid here *** it’s not interesting! and they went through the glorious battle of the tanks.
    1. fif21
      fif21 12 February 2016 13: 59
      17
      Quote: Irbis77
      I understand that you yourself didn’t have to hear a shell rustling or tearing your ears near a mine burst.
      Tell me again that we did not have to bury our comrades, see the tears of their wives and mothers, do not grit our teeth and do not clench our fists am The "Warsaw Treaty" collapsed, the Russian Federation handed over WEAPONS plutonium to the USA !, destroyed the railway missile systems, reduced the army, and what in response? NATO is living and expanding to the east, radars are being built, missile defense is being improved, American tanks are in the Baltic, and ships are in the Black Sea! ... This is an objective reality! At the same time, the US proposes to resume negotiations on the reduction of nuclear weapons - they want to deprive us of the last opportunity to give a worthy rebuff. They do not even conceal their goals in relation to the Russian Federation. And you propose to continue the game, who will "divorce whom"? Any normal person does not want war, but he will not live according to the rules and values ​​imposed from the outside. Whether or not Russia is ready for a big war is one question, but the fact that it will defend its interests is not worth discussing - it will. hi
      1. fsps
        fsps 12 February 2016 17: 58
        +2
        Regarding the BZHRK: their development, production, etc., concentrated exclusively on Ukraine, Yuzhmash, Yuzhbyuro, etc. In addition, they are outdated and have long been decommissioned. The new project is much better in many respects and also completely localized in Russia, not in today's Ukraine, fortunately. The rest requires too much discussion.
        1. Fat
          Fat 12 February 2016 22: 00
          0
          Quote: fsps
          Regarding the BZHRK: their development, production, etc., concentrated exclusively on Ukraine, Yuzhmash, Yuzhbyuro, etc. In addition, they are outdated and have long been decommissioned. The new project is much better in many respects and also completely localized in Russia, not in today's Ukraine, fortunately. The rest requires too much discussion.

          You are a plus. All right. And where .. the rest of the balo7
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. gladcu2
      gladcu2 12 February 2016 16: 33
      +3
      Irbis

      The author did not come measured pussy. The author, on the contrary, smoothed out this moment.

      You showed a maximum of carelessness while reading the article. And it's a shame that you put so many advantages.

      It will be difficult to find a common language with you.

      Fursenko was able to undermine the country's defense.
  4. nrex
    nrex 12 February 2016 14: 37
    +5
    From the likes of the first post, it is clear that the article was either not read to the end, or read from the end. either read and did not understand what. Although the article about us gentlemen is good. All of today's posts of many of you is a game in obtaining titles, adapting to the conjuncture of the audience.
    Because thoughtful and wise posts are practically not read, and preference is given to "hee-hee" tweets or "gop" shouts. It is clear that not everything with history is on you, but then read, penetrate and raise your level of knowledge. Thank you for reading me to the end.
  5. Fat
    Fat 12 February 2016 21: 45
    +1
    After reading the article I confess, I was confused ... - What does NATO have to do with it? An article on how adequately we, readers, evaluate the state of our country, and how we react to it. it’s felt that we do not always combine our desires and reality ...
  • cniza
    cniza 12 February 2016 12: 07
    33
    Of course, sometimes it brings on patriotic frenzy, but most understand that everything is not so easy and simple, especially fighting.
    1. Temples
      Temples 12 February 2016 12: 15
      12
      I understand that thanks to the media, including meprobably you have the opinion that we now have the Army. Not the one that was under Yeltsin, but the new one.

      About how!
      How would we live without you?
      You are our breadwinner.
      We rely only on you, heartfelt.
      But it is worth entering the Black Sea, for example, the Americans, respectively, to introduce several strike groups of ships, as our fleet will disappear in a week.

      So you look around.
      He is no longer our fleet.
      As soon as you read your prophecy, his darling did not become.

      Why I get scared by our patriotism

      So I think that you are hiding something?
      Ali there were times earlier in Russia when everything was in abundance?
      Or who threw caps in the past?
      Or with God's help they smashed the enemy and did not squander, and did not cry that the fleet was too old, but there were few cartridges.
      What do you think?
      Or no time to think? trembling interfere?
      1. Baikonur
        Baikonur 12 February 2016 12: 25
        16
        I agree! And with statements
        sir.jonn
        Quote: pest
        A dialogue may be necessary, but you cannot change your line. There is no trust in this alliance, consisting of jackals, ready to always cling to your leg from the back.

        Misha Honest

        What dialogue can be with someone who has already embarked on the rails of war? Let us recall the lessons of the Second World War, as Hitler and I agreed and how it all ended! The only question is when will it all go crazy and will we have time to prepare?
        and so is the knife in the back provided?
        Totally!
        History ALWAYS proves (it has never been otherwise) that nothing changes and will not change in relations with Russia! ALL!
        Only - Army and Navy !!!
        And with these allies, everything is fine with us!
        No need to drive ECHO ("like Moscow")! Wave, liberoid!
      2. Sura
        Sura 12 February 2016 12: 53
        0
        Another all-prosrashchilshchik, here it is well said about such http://mpsh.ru/242-ssha-vydelili-dengi-na-sverzhenie-putina.html
        1. Baikonur
          Baikonur 12 February 2016 17: 51
          +2
          I agree, but they did not understand you! I had to give a couple of paragraphs! :
          Brothers Russians !!!

          Now a "new generation" of trolls has come to the sites, working off the 70 billion dollars allocated by the US State Department to overthrow V.V. Putin. In social networks, they play all sorts of professions and various segments of the population: health workers, grandfathers, grandmothers, persons of any nationality, mothers and fathers with many children, teachers, retirees, etc.

          Work in groups and various topics for 5 people. In each such group, there is a psychologist and an analyst. They use specially prepared and distorted, but seemingly truthful information. It’s simply impossible to argue with them; in an argument, they attack you in a crowd and create the illusion that there are a majority of dissatisfied people in Russia.
          The meaning of their posts is that they will condemn and distort everything that happens in Russia. For example, the Olympiad is presented as an ostentatious event aimed at squandering financial state funds. You will be constantly encouraged that the Olympiad was held to "raise Putin's authority" in the world.

          You will be given financial expenses for the Olympiad and their full cost recovery, the destructibility of Olympic facilities, etc. Everything that is done in the country will be condemned similarly: roads, new enterprises, production and sale of minerals, oil, gas, gold fund countries, financial assistance from New Russia etc. etc. All posts will usually end with calls for the consolidation of society, against the poverty of the people and Putin with his personal and rich life. Be sure, partially in their posts truthful information is also used, but any misinformation rests on that!

          Everything that the representatives of the STATE DEPARTMENT write is professionally fabricated and specially rigged facts for the social networks of Russia. They use all sorts of terms, like "Honest state, Poverty of the people, Plundered Russia, State Governors got sick. The topic of housing and communal services, Pensions, Benefits, Medicine, Education, Police, financing of our regions and other countries, interethnic issues, rising prices, judicial system, ecology etc.".
          1. Baikonur
            Baikonur 12 February 2016 17: 53
            +2
            extension
            Representatives of the fifth column living in Russia will also be included in this discussion. Their goal is to convince you of the correctness of their arguments and provoke hostility to the authorities. The State Department, through sanctions, is trying to create social problems in Russia in order to blame V.V. Putin.

            Do not buy American bait, what gopp is worth - with a bite, you can be sure from events in European-democratic Ukraine. To an uninformed person, this lie is very difficult to figure out!
            The United States launched an information war against our homeland and our president. Friends, like-minded people, please help spread this post on other topics and in other social networks. If everyone who agrees with the above helps to distribute this post, and will not waste his time squabbling with these scum.

            Be carefull!
    2. Urals
      Urals 12 February 2016 12: 17
      31
      Uh, no author ... You, and you, like kudo!
      Loss say ..? But count the losses from those whiners and "everything is lost", "Russia is a backward country and does not know how to create anything" ... Remember the 90s, these literally swarmed with worms in our media (and now there are a lot of them flickering "... How many died people, how many were destroyed in total .. BOV these are flowers compared to what happened! And now a new wave begins ..
      I am against, of course, when "The armor is strong and our tanks are fast ..!, As in the 41st ...
      Nevertheless, patriotism and the military SPIRIT in Russia cannot be undermined! This is the basis of the Russian soul and this is precisely what the West fears and this is our strength!
      Good luck in your war ...
      1. dmi.pris
        dmi.pris 12 February 2016 12: 36
        13
        I fully support it .. Yes, there are ill-conceived and ridiculous statements on the site. But what does NATO and the state of our army have to do with it? Well, can we agree with them that rearmament will go faster from this? Yes, a young warrior will never be with Abakan or anything else. run more seriously at the range, he still has to master the "Kalash" .. And you, the author of the article, are ready to make an agreement with the enemy because of petty handouts ..
        1. dauria
          dauria 12 February 2016 13: 05
          -1
          .A you, the author of the article, are ready to make a contract with the enemy because of petty handouts ..


          Nonsense, did not notice this. The fact that talking is only a fool or obviously a hundred times strong will not use diplomacy. Negotiations were conducted even with the Germans in Berlin. If it had not been conducted, many of us would not have existed now. The author is in many ways right. And about cowardice, right. Courageous is when you quickly get out of a cunningly cowardly numbness and begin to think, moreover, competently. And this is only achieved through training and experience.
          By the way, retreat is the same kind of maneuver as the rest. Forget about it, in vain to die and kill people.
          1. dmi.pris
            dmi.pris 12 February 2016 13: 45
            +4
            This is not bullshit. My opinion is that you can’t make any contacts (negotiations, conversations and persuasions) with NATO until politicians are determined .. Notice, the last decades, NATO did not ask us what to do, but firmly bent its line. .Now it’s our turn .. Yes, diplomacy must be present .. But look what happens in the world, they will diplomatically talk to us only when we show our strength. Nobody respects the weak and trying to agree on something ..
            Quote: dauria
            .A you, the author of the article, are ready to make a contract with the enemy because of petty handouts ..


            Nonsense, did not notice this. The fact that talking is only a fool or obviously a hundred times strong will not use diplomacy. Negotiations were conducted even with the Germans in Berlin. If it had not been conducted, many of us would not have existed now. The author is in many ways right. And about cowardice, right. Courageous is when you quickly get out of a cunningly cowardly numbness and begin to think, moreover, competently. And this is only achieved through training and experience.
            By the way, retreat is the same kind of maneuver as the rest. Forget about it, in vain to die and kill people.
        2. fif21
          fif21 12 February 2016 14: 08
          +1
          Quote: dmi.pris
          And you, the author of the article, are ready to make a contract with the enemy because of petty handouts ..

          He is already scared from the comments wassat Such will live even under Hitler, at least under ISIS, at least under the Naglosaks. They will become Orthodox Catholics, Muslims, Buddhists ... at least by someone, if only there would be no war. fool
          1. dauria
            dauria 12 February 2016 18: 23
            +1
            Such will live even under Hitler, at least under ISIS, at least under the Naglosaks.



            Such people will just drag the first lousy part, when the "heroes" (those that survive) will come to their senses from luli. Perhaps, the "patriots" from this site will be saved by a sensible example from stupid stupid death. ... Contagion, but here many birch trees near the trench will not be able to cut down, but the peasant has already been recorded as "traitors".
            And the site (employees, excuse me) turned into chatter at the school break after the NVP.
        3. Nyrobsky
          Nyrobsky 12 February 2016 14: 47
          +1
          Quote: dmi.pris
          And you, the author of the article, are ready to make a contract with the enemy because of petty handouts ..

          Because of what handouts from the enemy, in your opinion, could the contract go, personally the author?)))
          In fact, the author, if not in everything, is in many ways right.
          If we compare the arguments "for the war" or "against" that is, there is only one that keeps the "partners" from war - this is Russia's nuclear triad (from land, from air and sea), using which, Russia is guaranteed to destroy them. Therefore, they prefer to act with someone else's hands and drag Russia into a war of attrition. Russia sees this and, in my opinion, very competently bypasses their "enticements". At least we could have been drawn into the war against urkaina 2 years ago, but we must understand that today it would not have been a war between Russia and Ukraine - we would have already fought with NATO, since we would have been drawn into this through the same Transnistria by putting the lives of our peacekeepers are under pressure. And from the south, having finished with Assad and left out of work, bearded from Syria, encouraged by Washington and Turkey, would have gone to us. It would be much more difficult to brush off two or three fronts. So having shown no small restraint, we have significantly changed the plans of the "partners". In fact, we got 2 years for the modernization and rearmament of the army and at the same time introduced the "partners" into unforeseen additional costs for the maintenance of the "flawed junta". During this time, in Europe itself, a split has been outlined, calling into question its unity and giving at least a vague understanding that by acting against Russia, it itself can disappear.
          The author holds the idea that having a grenade it can be used, but in different ways. You can undermine yourself, or you can undermine enemies - which makes a big difference. The main thing is to apply correctly and on time. Extinguish, tear, hollow, etc. it is possible and necessary if we have violated our borders - but here, however, we must think.
      2. evge-malyshev
        evge-malyshev 12 February 2016 13: 36
        +1
        Quote: Ural
        Good luck in your war ...


        I would wish "failure".
        1. Urals
          Urals 12 February 2016 14: 20
          +1
          Quote: evge-malyshev
          Quote: Ural
          Good luck in your war ...


          I would wish "failure".

          Failures, weak wish (not for you ..)! But Russia is strong in spirit and the enemy is always strong with us! Let there be an honest fight .. (our ancestors are watching us ..) God bless Russia and our children!
    3. Aleksander
      Aleksander 12 February 2016 12: 48
      +5
      Quote: cniza
      , but most understand that everything is not so easy and simple, especially fighting.


      Of course! Even in the comments above, NOBODY was going to attack and fight. It seems that the emphasis of comments is completely different - the need to be prepared (in which case) and worthy of it REPLY. And then there will already be nothing to choose.
      And this comment by the author is simply incomprehensible:
      Yes, our grandfathers marched solemnly through the streets of European cities. Yes, our banner fluttered over the Reichstag. But those who perished in the fire of war cannot be returned. And I had to build everything first. From the foundation. But they could just finish building new workshops, continue the already begun scientific developments. Children РјРѕРіР »Ryo would walk with grandparents.

      The fact of the matter is that -NOT they could, there simply wasn’t any choice, they didn’t leave its people and country. Rather, he was-win (so that they can build, walk, etc.) or disappear.
    4. gladcu2
      gladcu2 12 February 2016 16: 37
      +1
      cniza

      The pluses to your comment speak only about the number of people who think the same with you.

      From my point of view, Fursenko managed to destroy the future of the country.

      It’s possible that I’m wrong.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Finches
    Finches 12 February 2016 12: 11
    36
    It seems that he writes everything correctly, but for some reason the smell is not good from the article ........!
    1. Tra-ta-ta
      Tra-ta-ta 12 February 2016 12: 21
      +6
      And what kind of smell can there be if ... I get scared from our patriotism
      1. aksakal
        aksakal 12 February 2016 12: 30
        +7
        Quote: Tra-ta-ta
        And what kind of smell can there be if ... I’m afraid of our patriotism
        - did not even read to the end. It seems that the author of the Sabbath accuses the patriots of Russia of the fact that they are the ones who are getting to the borders of the EU and the USA, that they are organizing bloody color revolutions, that they are installing the missile defense near the borders of the EU and the USA ... After all, this is done by the West, and by peace must be patriots. Funny ... Author, article minus, I do not agree. Those who want to avoid war at the cost of shame will receive shame, and still war - the author is right, the unpleasant politician is right. Therefore ....
  • Ami du peuple
    Ami du peuple 12 February 2016 12: 14
    18
    Quote: 24rus
    He was told that Russia would not be accepted because then the concept and meaning of NATO would disappear

    Guys, I would really like to see "peace, friendship and chewing gum" all over the world. But, it doesn't work! If, in the past few years, the collective West has been constantly provoking us "weakly." At the same time, with its global media, in every possible way demonizing Russia. They declared war on us (whether we wanted it or not), and this war, even though it is cold, is already underway. By the way, the "Western partners" themselves admit that such a level of escalation was only during the Cuban missile crisis. "Hot lines" with NATO are good, but they will not help here, they will only delay the inevitable. Only a straight line between the Kremlin and the White House is really necessary .. And it is not a fact that reason will prevail.
    Unfortunately, my vision of the current situation is just that.
    1. Sid.74
      Sid.74 12 February 2016 12: 22
      19
      There are many more IN readers, respectively, and opinions. A conversation with NATO can and is needed. Only zero benefit from it. And frankly I don’t see a connection between patriotism and these comments.
      Dialogue with the foreign policy leadership of NATO was stopped precisely at the initiative of NATO, and not by us.
      For the last two years, NATO has become a weapon of propaganda, frantic propaganda and Russophobia.

      On the NATO TV channel, there is such a kind of journalist very emotionally defended to Bandera, they say a fighter against klyuyak klyatyak ... and this is just an independent hero, and in general an intelligent and sensitive little man.
      And what kind of decent words to NATO do you want? On the contrary, the readers spoke very softly to this organization of military-imbecile drug addicts.

      All the accusatory and accusatory statements of NATO were given without proof. This is the question of the Boeing MH17, and the so-called Russian aggression in the Donbas. For all this time, not one proof.

      And does it really make sense to negotiate with him at all? And what? Let me remind you, these comrades with big noses ... who are all growing from an incredible amount of lies, shot down our plane in Syria. They provoked the 08.08.08 conflict in Georgia. They destroyed Yugoslavia, Libya, Iraq.
      And what to talk to them about? There is no dialogue ... and I need to say there was never ... and they will pretend that we are their friends ... it is completely hypocritical ... I saw such "partners" in the grave. Actually, like the PACE and the European Parliament, and other similar Russophobic organizations ...
      1. Sid.74
        Sid.74 12 February 2016 12: 30
        17
        In addition to the above ...

        Summer camp in Estonia, where the good Nazi ... oh, I beg you to forgive ... democratic NATO instructors teach the young people of the square ... to kill the quilted jackets ... and other non-European people.

        Democratic mines ... for non-patrons.




        NATO is raising the fascists in Ukraine and in the Baltic States. Like 80 years ago, the USA and England raised Hitler.
        What are their goals? Not hard to guess.

        Here is a link to this article. http://dbelyaev.ru/p/15716/
      2. gray smeet
        gray smeet 12 February 2016 12: 33
        +8
        Ah, I will put the author +

        There are too many dummies on the site, because it’s so easy to write thoughtlessly and a hundred likes in your pocket, and put a stupid picture - generally HERO, and in fairness I’ll say that I myself sometimes slip into such a state, but then I try to stop myself ... Here on this put the author +

        And the article published by the author "Do we need to talk to NATO?" cited as a special case, but many again clung to the article and persistently continue to discuss the question - Do I need to talk to NATO? But it's not about that ... hi
        1. Anton Gavrilov
          Anton Gavrilov 12 February 2016 12: 57
          10
          Patriotism is needed, the message of the author is only that it be in moderation, and that because of it people do not lose their common sense and reason.

          Just specifically on this resource, the percentage of those who from patriotism just fiercely and wildly tear up the tower, and writes comments with relevant content is very, very high ....

          For example, in my part, in the fleet, I can literally count people with whom I can on my fingers adequately to chat and conduct interesting,sober dialogue, which then will be interesting and informative to read to others.And the rest ..... Well, excuse me, but comments in the spirit of "love, it is expensive to look at the" greatness "of the Russian fleet, or screams with saliva about the K-222, which was written off back in the USSR, and from the mid-80s x is not at all on the move, namely "how could you write off the fastest boat, bastards, creatures !!!", in general, such crap, frankly speaking, pulls you to vomit ...

          This resource would not hurt to engage in the education of its participants as it were normal, because many people spend a lot of time here. It would not be superfluous
        2. CONTROL
          CONTROL 12 February 2016 14: 11
          0
          Quote: gray smeet
          put a stupid picture - generally a HERO,

          What do you call a "stupid picture"?
          Here it is, for example:
          http://img.sadistic.pl/pics/a46abb481bfc.jpg
          1. gray smeet
            gray smeet 12 February 2016 15: 07
            +1
            Stupid, I call a picture like "Obama with a banana" (I do not specifically bring it here) or the like. Do you consider the picture "Obama with a banana" (as an example) a manifestation of patriotism? and worthy for exhibiting on VO (this is not Charlie Hebdo)?

            I hope I clarified what I call stupid picture (just a picture, not a poster!). Yours faithfully! hi
    2. quote
      quote 12 February 2016 14: 45
      -2
      Quote: Ami du peuple
      We were declared war (whether we like it or not) and this, albeit so far cold, war is already underway.

      The war was secretly declared a long time ago, is "Drop shop" an obvious secret? And so on increasing, and without interruption, and further more.
      And to the author with the "enemy" potryndet hunting! Go, the author potryndi, only do not forget to cover your ass, at least with your palm, there obedient "tolerants" are held in high esteem.
  • Sweles
    Sweles 12 February 2016 12: 41
    +4
    But what should Alexander Staver do when the Nata expands, when entire countries are destroyed, when treaties are violated, when the Russian space is narrowed? What to do then? Let us be horrified by the natural reaction of our people to the realities of this world, which is already more like a war. Putin, already turning away from the West and turning to China, has surrendered Russian lands in the Far East, and already pursues a policy of destroying his own economy in line with the Western values. Russia is a self-sufficient country and could live and develop freely without a liberoid model of life, but this does not happen, and here you are with your fears ...
  • The comment was deleted.
  • RUSS
    RUSS 12 February 2016 13: 01
    +6
    Nowadays, our TV often broadcasts to us about the degradation of NATO armies, especially in Europe, something like - "Germany has only a couple of planes flying, the British are reducing their fleet, the Baltic armies are generally laughing", BUT I always remember our veterans who criticize some films about the war, where the Germans were shown almost fools and cowards, veterans say that the enemy was dangerous and powerful, insidious and cunning, -we will be honest, because we underestimated the strength of Germany on the eve of the 41st year , we will not underestimate the enemy now and overestimate our strength.
  • Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 12 February 2016 13: 05
    +2
    The grand parade that made the world see our new army. Really great achievements of our scientists, designers, engineers, workers.

    But where is all this miracle technology today?
    Staver, pretend to be, or is it really so naive on the verge of dementia? fool were to rivet the armada for a year? yes you will be worse, some "uryakalok" ...
    1. Sid.74
      Sid.74 12 February 2016 13: 15
      +2
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      were to rivet the armada for a year?

      I read the article here the other day, I’m sorry to have lost the link, there one Anglo-Saxon character says that the Russians have already mastered the 3D print of some elements of the Armata tank. And that they will soon be releasing them in hundreds like hotcakes.laughing
      So we will wait a bit ... when each Voshnik at home prints Armatu on a personal printer, and then with endless armored hordes we rush to tear NATO defenseless on the British flag. laughing
  • Max_Bauder
    Max_Bauder 12 February 2016 14: 05
    +5
    The author is an idealist. The fact that the World can live peacefully is an illusion. Wars have always been, are and will be ... unfortunately. None of the members of the forum wants war, and in the world, no one wants war. As Achilles said from the movie "Troy" - kings start wars, and ordinary soldiers die. Or as Eric Bana's character from the movie "The Fall of the Ebon Hawk" said - when the first bullet takes off, all politics goes to hell. So they will call - everyone will go, like it or not. May God grant the rulers will be smart.
  • Army1
    Army1 12 February 2016 19: 20
    +2
    The author, in principle, pays more attention to armaments, but I want to focus more on something else: Most people think not with their heads but with emotions, lately there has been a lot of discussion about nuclear strikes, no one even understands what it is. But most of all, of course, how easily one can manipulate the human consciousness. People don’t want to think, if you don’t say now that a caliber rocket is a cool rocket then you are an outcast. Personally, I think that this is an excellent missile, and even before it was used in Syria, I knew that it could be used from the Caspian region. And many disobey something and begin am They simply live by impulses and emotions, and they do not care that a potential enemy has 90 cells of 533 mm on the Orly Berk alone, and there is more than one such ships. I do not want to say that we are weaker, just why boast to a person in front of a dolphin that you can swim
  • denni
    denni 12 February 2016 12: 03
    29
    I do not agree with the author. We did not start world wars dragging us there or attacking us. But if fate again forces us to fight and perish in the flame of World War 3, what to do is better to leave with dignity than on our knees.
  • Neophyte
    Neophyte 12 February 2016 12: 04
    +8
    Do not drift, soaring! Russia does not start a war, it ends them — victoriously!
    1. The comment was deleted.
  • Bacha
    Bacha 12 February 2016 12: 05
    24
    The trouble is that the negotiations will no longer help, the team is given, and whether we are ready or not, they do not ask us. And on the forum, we’re just creating our own fighting spirit, the decline of spirit is also not buzzing.
    1. domokl
      domokl 12 February 2016 12: 22
      +7
      lol Sala bacha ... The question is not in the team. The question is that under the brand of misunderstanding one more plane can fall, then another plane ... And I won’t launch a response like a rocket .. We will hear an apology with a mournful face. Posthumously the order to the family and all ...
      And given your nickname, you should know that hatred doesn’t bring to good .. The enemy needs not only to be studied, but to know thoroughly ...
      1. Bacha
        Bacha 12 February 2016 14: 22
        0
        Yes, this is understandable, we have already taken Chechnya with the landing party. But it is impossible to suppose a decline in spirit.
  • rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 12 February 2016 12: 05
    19
    rotmistr60

    We are not striving for confrontation with Russia and for a new "cold war," we want to avoid a new "cold war."

    When the matter is heading towards a possible armed conflict between one of the NATO countries and Russia, it is somehow even indecent to talk about the unwillingness of the "cold war". And if you listen to what this secretary general said earlier, you get the impression that they are simply trying to lull our vigilance. But this is designed for fools and not how it cannot blind eye Russia.

    Author, where did you see the desire to fight in my comment? The comment was written on a statement by the NATO Secretary General. Let’s somehow separate the attitude towards the NATO statement and the desire to fight. Sorry for not applauding the Secretary General of NATO.
  • kapitan92
    kapitan92 12 February 2016 12: 07
    +4
    I will not comment on the article! I put +
    1. iConst
      iConst 12 February 2016 12: 52
      -3
      Quote: kapitan92
      I will not comment on the article! I put +
      - I also. And ... I don’t put anything: I didn’t understand.

      I recalled a joke (abstract - not applicable to the article), ending:
      - And salt in what?
      - No salt, only heat, sand and manure ...
  • Mama_Cholli
    Mama_Cholli 12 February 2016 12: 08
    18
    You can add some fresh from such patriots:


    And what do you want, to lower the flag, as the USSR lowered, to destroy the Russian Federation and without any war to allow the deaths of tens of millions of Russian citizens, as it was in the 90s ?! I am sick of cowards and liberal lackeys of the USA whom it is time to judge for treason to the Homeland! If Russia is destined to die, then let it die in battle, inflicting maximum damage to the enemy, and not drowning in the shit of the next reforms, the next rotten lackey of the USA, like Gaidar

    pisi:
    The main message is to die in battle.
    Why is it necessary to die, for example, you can try to develop science, technology, industry and live and raise children, raising them Russian in spirit (applies to all nationalities of Russia).
  • SAM 5
    SAM 5 12 February 2016 12: 08
    13
    You said that correctly, Staver. + XNUMX% And I would also add a phrase from the song "Do the Russians want wars"
    "Yes, we know how to fight,
    But we don’t want to, again,
    Soldiers fell in battle
    For his Russian land ... "
  • valera
    valera 12 February 2016 12: 10
    -33 qualifying.
    It is doubtful that our Black Sea Fleet will be able to cope with the Turkish. Some run.
    1. nizrum
      nizrum 12 February 2016 12: 13
      +8
      If Crimea is considered an aircraft carrier, it can))
      1. valera
        valera 12 February 2016 12: 20
        -14 qualifying.
        Here is a sample of the year 91, when there were tens of thousands of fighters in the Crimea and the infrastructure was not destroyed then another thing. And today, everything is just being reborn.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. domokl
      domokl 12 February 2016 12: 17
      +2
      laughing Books must be read .... Scientific ... Analysts of the Navy have long published publicly available maps of the Black Sea ..
      1. valera
        valera 12 February 2016 12: 21
        -5
        Quote: domokl
        Books must be read .... Scientific ... Analysts of the Navy have long published publicly available maps of the Black Sea ..

        There is no time to read books yes. Throw links, I will be grateful.
      2. square
        square 12 February 2016 12: 32
        -5
        Interestingly, what would they say before the Battle of Chekmen? There, the Turks have guns where more than we had. But the article is still interesting, it makes you think.
        1. square
          square 12 February 2016 13: 28
          +3
          After agreeing on an action plan, the Russian fleet, with all sails, approached the southern edge of the Turkish line, and then, turning around, began to take up positions against Turkish ships. The Turkish fleet opened fire at 11:30 [3] -11: 45 [2], the Russian - at 12:00. The maneuver did not succeed in three Russian ships: “Europe” slipped its place and was forced to turn around and stand behind “Rostislav”, “Three Saints” rounded the second Turkish ship from the back before being able to become operational and was mistakenly attacked by the ship “Three Hierarch ”, and“ St. Yanuari ”was forced to turn around before it became operational.
          "St. Eustathius ”under the command of Spiridov began a duel with the flagship of the Turkish squadron“ Burj u Zafer ”under the command of Gassan Pasha, and then tried to board it. After the burning main mast “Burj u Zafer” fell on “St. Eustathius, ”he exploded. After 10-15 minutes, the Burj u Zafer also exploded. Admiral Spiridov and the brother of the commander Fedor Orlov left the ship before the explosion. The captain of “St. Eustathia "Cruise (Eng. Kruse). Spiridov continued command from the ship "Three Saints."
          By 14:00, the Turks chopped off the anchor ropes and retreated to Chesmenskaya Bay under the cover of coastal batteries.
          25 — 26 of June (6 — 7 of July), battle in Chesme Bay
          In the Chesmen Bay, Turkish ships formed two lines of 8 and 7 battleships, respectively, the rest of the vessels took a position between these lines and the coast.
          During the day of July 6, Russian ships shelled the Turkish fleet and coastal fortifications from a long distance. Of the four auxiliary vessels, firewalls were made.
          At 17:00 p.m. on July 6, the Thunder bombing ship anchored in front of the entrance to Chesme Bay and began shelling Turkish ships. At 0:30, he joined the battleship Europe, and by 1:00 - Rostislav, in whose wake came the firewalls.
          Europe, Rostislav, and approaching Do not touch me formed a line from north to south, having fought with Turkish ships, Saratov stood in reserve, and Thunder and frigate Africa attacked batteries on the west coast of the bay. At 1:30 or a little earlier (at midnight, according to Elphinstone [4]), as a result of the Thunder and / or Do Not Touch me fire, one of the Turkish battleships exploded due to the transfer of flame from burning sails to the hull. Burning debris from this explosion threw other ships in the bay.
          After the explosion at 2:00 of the second Turkish ship, Russian ships ceased fire, and firewalls entered the bay. The Turks managed to shoot two of them under the command of captains Gagarin and Dugdale (English Dugdale) (according to Elphinstone [4], only the captain Dugdale’s fire was shot, and the captain Gagarin’s fire refused to go into battle), one under the command of Mackenzie grappled with the already burning ship, and one under the command of Lieutenant D. Ilyin grappled with the 84-gun battleship. Ilyin set fire to the firebrand, and he and his crew left him on the boat. The ship exploded and set fire to most of the remaining Turkish ships. By 2:30 another 3 battleships exploded.
          Around 4:00, Russian ships sent boats in order to save two large vessels that had not yet burned, but only one of them, the 60-gun Rhodes, was taken out. From 4:00 to 5:30 another 6 battleships exploded, and at the 7th hour - at the same time 4. By 8:00 the battle in the Chesme Bay was over.
          After the Battle of Chesme, the Russian fleet was able to seriously disrupt the communications of the Turks in the Aegean Sea and establish the blockade of the Dardanelles.
          All this played an important role in the conclusion of the Kuchuk-Kainardzhi peace treaty.
          Count Alexei Orlov received the right to add the name Chesmensky to the surname.
          In July 2012, Russian President Vladimir Putin signed into law amendments “On the Days of Military Glory and Memorable Dates of Russia,” which supplement the list of days of military glory with the date of July 7 — the Day of the Russian Navy's victory over the Turkish fleet in the Chesme battle.
        2. sharp-lad
          sharp-lad 12 February 2016 14: 54
          +1
          Thinking is very good, especially if there is anything.
    4. Fonmeg
      Fonmeg 12 February 2016 12: 39
      +3
      valera Today, 12:10 am New
      It is doubtful that our Black Sea Fleet will be able to cope with the Turkish. Some run.

      Your emergency will definitely not "smog"!
      1. valera
        valera 12 February 2016 12: 53
        -4
        Quote: Fonmeg
        Your emergency will definitely not "smog"!


        Jura, finish conjuring on a boat and start training cats. laughing laughing laughing laughing
    5. Dart2027
      Dart2027 12 February 2016 13: 05
      +1
      One Black Sea Fleet or Black Sea Fleet plus Air Force plus RV&A? These are two big differences. The Black Sea Fleet is not in the best condition - it’s a fact, but now they are trying to saturate the Crimea with missiles as much as possible, and they wrote about the CF several years ago that it might not be hard to shoot around Turkey.
    6. Weyland
      Weyland 12 February 2016 19: 59
      +1
      Quote: Valera
      It is doubtful that our Black Sea Fleet will be able to cope with the Turkish.


      Well, if we compare the formal balance of power .... And what was it like under Chesma, Kaliakria, Tendra - to remind or google yourself?
  • Chisayna
    Chisayna 12 February 2016 12: 11
    +9
    It is not clear whether the author offers to give up?
    1. vyinemeynen
      vyinemeynen 12 February 2016 15: 12
      0
      And we will do everything so that war does not happen.

      All is surrender. am
      The author for some reason thinks that the fleet will fight with the fleet, the "skater" with the "skater" no respected will fight EVERYTHING. "Sprinkle it with chalk - I'll get it off with a club" angry
      But we don’t want war.
  • Nsk 54
    Nsk 54 12 February 2016 12: 11
    +4
    Just topware spread hacking.
    1. Imperialkolorad
      Imperialkolorad 12 February 2016 12: 26
      +6
      And this is, but the article contains veiled defeatism.
    2. Imperialkolorad
      Imperialkolorad 12 February 2016 12: 53
      +5
      In business. Recently I just read that there will be a wave in social networks and on resources like ours directed ultimately against Russia. It seems to have begun. Note posts with only a touch of cheers-patriotism are already beginning to minus.
    3. fif21
      fif21 12 February 2016 14: 45
      +3
      Quote: Nsk 54
      Just hacking spread on topware
      Comments like "Pasha (Grachev) Mercedes" - because of Grozny, the Airborne Forces have not been around for a long time wassat Yes, and the realization that World War 4 will be on batons, too. But there is pride in his army and the understanding that the enemy is serious. But the hat-thinking opinion of the partners is over the top. They consider Russia a defeated country with a dying economy.
    4. The comment was deleted.
  • Altona
    Altona 12 February 2016 12: 13
    10
    To be honest, I did not understand the article. On this resource, some of the people are simply blowing steam into a whistle. No one is going to create an army of war trolls and attack "enemy resources" like the stupid neighbors that we have been observing for the third year. For "cyber dislike" for NATO, check out Facebook. There are Putin fan groups, against NATO and imperialism groups, fans of Russia, Kurganets-Armata fans. I roughly give the names of the groups, there are a thousand or more people. Many foreigners switch to our social networks Odnoklassniki and VK. That is, NATO counteraction in the world is carried out not only on our resource, where Meehan and the "Mikhanovites" walk hungry to the imperialist enemy and wave a virtual saber. And if you do not allow a person to virtually speak out, then he can incorrectly direct his energy.
    1. Svetlana
      Svetlana 12 February 2016 12: 59
      +4
      Quote: Altona
      I did not understand the article, to be honest. On this resource, part of the people simply blows a whistle.

      Agree with you. People’s desire to express themselves, to find out what others think, to share their thoughts should not be taken as an intention to run right now to grab a cattle and shove it to fight with Turkey or Poland. To do this, there is a special ministry, headed by the minister, and the supreme commander, who will make decisions. And in order to use all diplomatic methods to avoid open military clashes, there is still a Foreign Ministry. A patriotic people will always support in the case of a large sheer. Therefore, the message in the article is somehow not very clear. E. Evtushenko has already been said on this subject. And better no one said:
      Do Russian wars want to happen?
      Ask you for silence
      Above the width of the fields and fields,
      Both birches and poplars.
      You will ask those soldiers,
      What lies under the birch trees
      And their sons will answer you,
      Do the Russians want war.
      Not only for your country
      Soldiers died in that war,
      And that the people of the whole earth
      It was easy to sleep at night.
      Ask those who fought,
      Who hugged you on the Elbe
      (We are faithful to this memory)
      Do the Russians want war.
      Yes, we know how to fight,
      But we do not want again
      Soldiers fell in battle
      To the ground bitter.
      You will ask your mother,
      Ask my wife,
      And then you must understand
      Do the Russians want war.
      He will catch a docker and a fisherman,
      Understand the worker and laborer,
      Will understand the people of any country
      Do the Russians want war.
  • Bacha
    Bacha 12 February 2016 12: 14
    +3
    Quote: Chisain
    It is not clear whether the author offers to give up?

    I understood everything correctly, Katz offers to give up!)))
  • AlexTires
    AlexTires 12 February 2016 12: 15
    12
    The phenomenon as hatred was in Russia during the period of almost any more or less pronounced geopolitical contradiction or conflict, but to the same extent, I believe that in places this reaction of the society is healthy in essence because there is a contrast to decadence and defeatism ...
  • Bacha
    Bacha 12 February 2016 12: 15
    +3
    Quote: Nsk 54
    Just topware spread hacking.

    This is called the information war! True partisan))) but the war)))
  • Alexander Romanov
    Alexander Romanov 12 February 2016 12: 18
    16
    Sanya, well, you surprised me
    And he will run around the range with the "Abakan", and with the old "Kalash" or SVD.
    During the Chechen period 1, Abakan was tested in special forces units. The machine did not pass the test!
    At the same time, shoot Soviet, in the best case, release of the end of the last century, ammunition.
    The factories are working to their fullest, and the USSR’s ammunition, if any, will soon be scrapped. As for the ammunition of the end of the century, what’s the problem.
    But it is necessary to enter the Black Sea, for example, the Americans, respectively, to enter several strike groups of ships, as our fleet will disappear in a week.
    Well, this is already the 3rd World War, and not only our fleet, but also the city of Washington will disappear.

    I understand that now someone is actively grinning and recalls the nuclear button. Do not dare! And who told you they would not dare?

    Why they don’t dare, they can dare, but this is the 3rd world war, to which we actually all roll.
    "Russia does not like to fight. But it does it better than anyone else in the world."
    Sanya, honestly, well, I don’t see a problem in that there are two or three dozen people writing that they need to bomb Turkey or America. Fortunately, they are not at the helm of the state, and they won’t go to fight. Yes, at the computer will strike with komenty in all directions.
    As for the warriors themselves, we won’t avoid it, simply because someone really wants to fight with Russia.
    1. cniza
      cniza 12 February 2016 12: 27
      +6
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      As for the warriors themselves, we won’t avoid it, simply because someone really wants to fight with Russia.



      And the world is moving in this direction with great speed, we will come soon ...
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 12 February 2016 12: 30
        0
        Quote: cniza
        we'll be there soon ...

        Yes, everyone will be there recourse
        1. domokl
          domokl 12 February 2016 12: 39
          -2
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Yes, everyone will be there

          tongue Well, pipes ... I'm in the taiga .. as always ...
          1. iConst
            iConst 12 February 2016 12: 59
            -4
            Quote: domokl
            Well, pipes ... I'm in the taiga .. as always.
            - The coordinates of a quiet place in PM Mona? belay
            1. domokl
              domokl 12 February 2016 13: 13
              0
              Quote: iConst
              - The coordinates of a quiet place in PM Mona?

              Yeah .. And a wind rose, so that the deviation was minimal at the rocket laughing Western Siberia.
    2. domokl
      domokl 12 February 2016 12: 38
      +4
      Hi Marine ... Well, you cheated ... You yourself read something that you painted? laughing About Abakan FIG with him .. But you have a lot of new weapons in the region? And about ammunition ... Factories work, but the expense is huge today ... And not at the landfills, but in real databases.
      And about the war. As I understand it, the conversation is not about avoiding (in a word) war. Talk about the restoration of direct telephone and direct contacts of the military.
      I do not want to again accept an apology for the next corpse and tear the vest, at the button press ... And ... forget, as they already forgot the bomber commander and hundreds of others ...
      1. Altona
        Altona 12 February 2016 12: 44
        +7
        Quote: domokl
        And about the war. As I understand it, the conversation is not about avoiding (in a word) war. Talk about the restoration of direct telephone and direct contacts of the military.

        ------------------------
        Erdogan, a NATO member, by the way, has not been able to get through to Putin for the third month, and the "hurray-hat-haters" from VO are to blame. soldier
        1. domokl
          domokl 12 February 2016 12: 52
          +1
          Quote: Altona
          Erdogan Member

          Stoltenberg said that NATO will climb into Syrian disassembly .. I’ll translate it, let him deal with Russia
          1. Altona
            Altona 12 February 2016 14: 11
            +1
            Quote: domokl
            I’m transferring it myself, let him deal with Russia

            ------------------
            It goes without saying. And "hurray-patriots" got to do with it? Are we stirring up tension?
      2. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 12 February 2016 12: 44
        +3
        Quote: domokl
        But do you have a lot of new weapons in the region? And about ammunition

        Generally no, they exported everything, together with warehouses.
        Quote: domokl
        And about ammunition ... Factories work, but the expense is huge today ..

        Sanya, wagons of ammunition come from the factory. I have not far ammunition factory.
        Quote: domokl
        Talk about the restoration of direct telephone and direct contacts of the military.

        Now this is of little use when they bomb themselves and blame us for this. This is done deliberately.
        Quote: domokl
        .And ... forget how the bomber commander and hundreds of others have already forgotten ...

        Sanya, everything is just beginning.
        1. domokl
          domokl 12 February 2016 12: 55
          +3
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Sanya, everything is just beginning.

          Yes, nothing begins .. And it does not begin. All the balabol that are now screaming about the desire to fight on 100% of the war did not see. And ours and not ours. And those who understand and do not want to fight close. It’s one thing to populate a month somewhere else, another thing in your old people and children art is hammering. At the same time, from the word Stalingrad, knees bend even today .. remember
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 12 February 2016 13: 06
            +1
            Quote: domokl
            Nothing starts.

            Will the world be yes?
            Quote: domokl
            .And it won’t begin. All the balabol who are now screaming about the desire to fight 100% of the war have not been seen. And ours and not ours.

            It does not depend on them whether there will be a warrior or not.
            Quote: domokl
            And those who understand and do not want to fight close.

            And it also does not depend on them.
            Quote: domokl
            .Unfortunately, from the word Stalingrad, knees bend even today .. remember

            While listening to Merkel, I did not notice this. And ordinary Germans, and who are they, nobody!
            1. domokl
              domokl 12 February 2016 13: 15
              0
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              While listening to Merkel, I did not notice this.

              And you look at our mutual friend on Skype .. He will twist your notes with nemchura
        2. iConst
          iConst 12 February 2016 13: 01
          +3
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Sanya, everything is just beginning.
          -Uhh, men, scare Hare - otherwise I’ll rush to dig a refuge instead of rest ... belay

          Incidentally, with the Friday of all forum users! drinks
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 12 February 2016 13: 07
            0
            Quote: iConst
            Incidentally, with the Friday of all forum users!

            Stop drinking!
            1. iConst
              iConst 12 February 2016 13: 20
              0
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              Stop drinking!
              “And I haven't started yet.” laughing

              And, then - why is it necessary to immediately "drink"? For example, I'm going to pamper my wife - take her to a sushi restaurant.

              Beer is bullshit. Yes, and sushi combines somehow not very ...
              1. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 12 February 2016 16: 19
                +1
                Quote: iConst
                Beer there bullshit

                Well, I say 0.5 wink
            2. Tra-ta-ta
              Tra-ta-ta 12 February 2016 15: 06
              0
              Sanya, your working day is over there, but we still have plowing ..
  • demo
    demo 12 February 2016 12: 20
    +4
    Yes, our grandfathers marched through the streets of European cities. Yes, our banner fluttered over the Reichstag. But those who perished in the fire of war, you will not return. And I had to build everything first. From the foundation. But they could just finish building new workshops, continue the already started scientific developments. Children could walk with their grandparents.

    Unclear.
    What did the author want to say?
    He probably thought that it would not be worth fighting the aggressor-Germany?
    From his words you can understand exactly that.
    I suspect that the author had in mind something else.
    But if he is so careless with words, especially in such a context, then the rest of the words should be examined more closely.

    But in principle, the author, personifying a certain part of our society, clearly laid out everything.
    He is well done.
    But, however, he himself will not go anywhere, and his life, so he will not risk dear to him.
    God forbid they kill.
    His so beloved self.

    Before the battle, it’s worthless to think about death.
    Before the battle they ask God to strengthen the Spirit.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Wedmak
    Wedmak 12 February 2016 12: 24
    11
    Something I don’t remember positive examples of countries that, by negotiating with the United States and NATO, abruptly came to prosperity and security. As soon as the Americans finish their next geostrategic game, all America's "friends" either merge as waste material or are declared enemies.
    The Council can create and it is necessary, they are not really joking with weapons. But agree on something ... Excuse me, with whom? With that general or politician who talked about evil Russians an hour ago from the rostrum of NATO and demanded to increase the already exaggerated military budget?
    While we are covered by our Army, Navy and Strategic Rocket Forces. As soon as the USA achieves total superiority and assesses the return damage insignificant, they will literally level us in the ground. And those signed papers will not cost anything.
    This is not even my opinion. These are the facts of their recent history.
    1. iConst
      iConst 12 February 2016 13: 03
      +1
      Quote: Wedmak
      Something I don’t remember positive examples of countries that, by negotiating with the United States and NATO, abruptly came to prosperity and security. As soon as the Americans finish their next geostrategic game, all America's "friends" either merge as waste material or are declared enemies.
      - Yes, what - normal, such a scam ... request
  • drilled
    drilled 12 February 2016 12: 25
    10
    Of course, I would not like to fight. Just what depends on us? We are already enemies for everyone, and, as someone rightly said, something like "hatred of Russia is a sign of Western identity." It has always been that way. IS ALWAYS. Read the story. NATO did not dissolve itself when the Warsaw Pact disappeared. So you need to prepare.
    "If there is a whistle and rumble about the love of power and the conquering lust of Russia, know that some Western European power is preparing an unscrupulous seizure of someone else's land." (I. Aksakov 1870 seems)
  • smith7
    smith7 12 February 2016 12: 27
    +3
    To create or not to create a Russia-NATO Council is not a public question for the most part. The electorate, the townsfolk do not have the information to make a decision. Therefore, it is to be discussed in the Foreign Ministry, in the Government, but not at the level of the Internet publication. People who could not resist making statements on this topic simply cannot see the whole depth of the problem. And the subject of discussion is very voluminous. But I agree that the level of cheers on the forum, to put it mildly, is off scale.
    1. Altona
      Altona 12 February 2016 15: 22
      +1
      Quote: smith7
      But I agree that the level of cheers on the forum, to put it mildly, is off scale.

      -------------------------
      This is not the level of "hurray-patriotism" going off scale, it is the level of information war going off scale. Opinions are polarizing. And we are not calling for war. The West has been painting "Russian aggression" with red and black colors for three years already, a whole virtual reality has already been created, where a Russian soldier walks with a forged boot across "peaceful Ukraine". Where Russian submarines lurk in the Norwegian fjords, occasionally flashing with periscopes. Where the Swedish army retreats to the Finnish border in three weeks and begs the Finns to help, and they have been hiding for a month in the thicket and impenetrable swamps from our tanks. Where the Baltic soldiers famously seated on three Estonian T-55 tanks go on the attack along with the American Abrams and Bradleys. Great Britain received a nuclear strike with ten Satan missiles, and now Cameron and Elizabeth are scratching their turnips, whether to press the retaliatory strike button in response. And you say. And compare this with Mikhanov's exemplary replica "I'll kick my ass off to Obamka."
  • EvaFerrari
    EvaFerrari 12 February 2016 12: 27
    0
    The author is partly right, but there is a big "BUT". The fact is that Russia is constantly provoked: first in Ossetia, then in Ukraine, now Turkey. Nobody knows in which direction the next step will be taken and which point will be pressed again. While our leaders sit silent and conduct conversations in a "diplomatic tone", our opponents are looking for new painful areas and continue their game. Someday it will end badly, and the most likely scenario is riots in individual cities, there will be enough provocateurs for this (they are already operating, including in the military).
  • Samen
    Samen 12 February 2016 12: 30
    +6
    It becomes terrible from unbridled hatred.

    Was the hat author scared? This is a joke ...
    But seriously ... It was scary when 20 years, in a row, were destroyed by the Armed Forces of RUSSIA!
  • Bakht
    Bakht 12 February 2016 12: 30
    15
    The meaning of the discussion is not clear. What is it about? About the inevitability of war? So after all, diplomats are trying to prevent this development of events. And here half of the messages "like a babkhnem - half the ball will not be."

    The Black Sea Fleet will cope not only with the Turkish, but also with the American fleet. This must be clearly understood. Not one, even half-witted, admiral will enter a single battle group into the Black Sea if it can be shot from the coastal Bastions. Does everyone know the radius of the defeat? I doubt that the claimed is true. I think that the entire Black Sea is under the gun. Up to the Bosphorus. You don’t even need to fight. In an emergency, the Black Sea will become empty. Not like a warship, not a single civilian ship would dare to sail here.

    What weapons systems are heard around the world? Do you seriously think that someone was frightened by Almaty and other Boomerangs? Everyone is hearing the air defense system. S-300, S-400 and on the approach of S-500. Nobody sees an example of Syria? Why is Turkish aviation fun? Yes, because you can simply and unpretentiously get at the end. Perhaps these systems are not very good. But to test in practice suicides is not yet visible.

    Why is the Russian Federation conducting unscheduled exercises and trainings? Maybe in Russia fill up fuel and engine life of military vehicles is unlimited? Or planes do not require repair? Yes, simply because showing muscles is cheaper than using your muscles in a fight.

    The war comes from the West and therefore it is necessary to stop it before the real declaration. In 1941, no one in the world took the Red Army seriously. It is necessary that this does not happen again. That is why Moscow is flexing its muscles (exercises, maneuvers, parades). But this does not mean that the jingoistic patriots should shout at the top of their lungs "we will slaughter and cut everyone." The hostilities will begin then (and only then) if the West feels its strength and the ability to win. While the West does not have this confidence, you can sleep peacefully.
  • Million
    Million 12 February 2016 12: 31
    +3
    Nato takes into account only his interests, Russia for Nato is the enemy number 1.
  • ljvjdbr
    ljvjdbr 12 February 2016 12: 31
    -6
    Everything is written correctly. Only the "patriot" Solovyov should not be mentioned.
    1. Imperialkolorad
      Imperialkolorad 12 February 2016 12: 59
      +2
      Quote: ljvjdbr
      Everything is written correctly. Only the "patriot" Solovyov should not be mentioned.

      Do you suggest recalling the "patriot" Venediktov?
  • dchegrinec
    dchegrinec 12 February 2016 12: 31
    +6
    Question: Do we need to consider reader comments under a microscope? They simply express their feelings through words and nothing more! And politicians reason in exactly the same way, but with one difference - there you can’t go about emotions! And the readers would not go to real events. That's all. Politicians should behave correctly, but those who want to see the real situation can listen to our comments and this will be the real situation! So be quiet, authors! Do not strain in vain ..
  • magirus401
    magirus401 12 February 2016 12: 32
    +3
    Quote: kapitan92
    I will not comment on the article! I put +


    I will not comment too, I put - -
  • Velizariy
    Velizariy 12 February 2016 12: 32
    +2
    Even if we are against the war as a whole population, we still have to fight! It is not up to our people to be war or not to be! If clouds are gathering around us and all the Euros and American politicians have forgotten what politeness and diplomacy are watered and declare that we are a threat to the whole world! How to be here? To say that we will not fight? No! We will fight and I hope enough spirit to destroy the enemy not only on the battlefield, but also as a state-forming element.
    War is inevitable, but not world war, namely Russian - Turkish with the participation of European states and all kinds of Arabs. The war is large-scale, but not global.
  • Michael_59
    Michael_59 12 February 2016 12: 32
    +9
    But I’m scared not from patriotism, but from its absence (or lack of it).
  • fsps
    fsps 12 February 2016 12: 33
    +3
    I think patriotism is the safety of me, my family, my country. That which strengthens and strengthens our security, of all types, is patriotic. If for the safety of my children I have to shoot, I must shoot. If you work for days, you have to work. And the words that are wrapped around only interfere with the essence of the matter, for which, perhaps, they are intended. If in Syria it is possible to prevent ISIS from going north, and even in coordination with the provocation of the Nazis of Ukraine - by providing Russia with a war on two fronts and cutting off the resources of Siberia and the Urals, and even by firing up some maidan in Siberia and the Urals ... was there a plan for "democratization" initially? And now they also want to attach the Turks?
  • Glaaki
    Glaaki 12 February 2016 12: 33
    +6
    Author, do you understand that now you and your descendants will forever be put in the fifth column?
    1. fsps
      fsps 12 February 2016 18: 16
      0
      And I'm not afraid of them. I believe that the safety of me and my children and the safety of Russia are simply parts of a whole. I do not want my children to wash the rich senile, because, if anything, this will be the best option for them, they will not let anyone go anywhere. Here is Crimea: this is control over the entire Black Sea, that is, the security of Russia, and therefore the games around it. Syria also. That's enough for me. We remember Yugoslavia and other Libya, it will cost us much worse, if that.
  • vadostar
    vadostar 12 February 2016 12: 35
    +3
    Tolerant gentlemen, even more tolerant and the people (geyropeysky) stretch laughing
    1. AlexTires
      AlexTires 12 February 2016 12: 38
      +1
      Quote: vadostar
      Arod (Geyropeisky) will stretch

      To Siberia? lol
      1. Imperialkolorad
        Imperialkolorad 12 February 2016 13: 02
        +3
        Quote: AlexTires
        To Siberia?

        Have the Siberians been asked? Would they welcome such a neighborhood? Although then the problem will disappear ... to fill some muzzle.
  • arlekin
    arlekin 12 February 2016 12: 37
    0
    I fully support the author. It’s also wild for me to read comments from people calling for war who don’t want to come to an agreement with anyone. If young people write this, this is one thing. Young people can rush to the attack, not afraid of a nuclear war, or nothing at all. For youth, this is normal; he himself was like that (at one time he wrote statements to Afghanistan twice), not thinking about his relatives. With age, with my children, I realized that the most important thing is the family, that war is the worst that can be. But if the comments are from older people - I do not understand. Have you never buried your relatives, never worried about your loved ones? Don't know how it hurts? How scary to take the phone and tell father that his youngest son is no more. I hope that they are such only on the Internet, and in life they are ordinary people, and in their family, at work, on the street, they do not seek quarrels, but prefer to solve all problems peacefully.
    1. Imperialkolorad
      Imperialkolorad 12 February 2016 13: 03
      +5
      So it is precisely to war that few people call on the people to say that there is no NATU faith and that these democrats understand only the language of power. Enough already with the author of the article to replace the concept.
    2. mikh-korsakov
      mikh-korsakov 12 February 2016 13: 46
      +4
      You are right about that. that war is a vile matter, but remember (Iraq, Yugoslavia, Libya) how scary women and children were from NATO!), the author and you are wrong in that some kind of Russia-NATO contacts can prevent the war. Gaddafi even sponsored Sarkozy’s election company, and where is Gaddafi? Only the Strategic Missile Forces prevent war with us, here friends and partners drool over, that is, the elbow is close, and you will not bite). Glory to the Strategic Missile Forces protecting our children! Everything else is vignettes.
  • Zomanus
    Zomanus 12 February 2016 12: 39
    +3
    And then Stalin was a fool that went to the Molotov-Rebentrop Pact and urged not to succumb to provocations.
    You need to clearly understand that every day without war is the release of an additional unit of weapons.
    Cannon, tank, plane, cruise missile, it doesn’t matter.
    And while you can talk, while there is no blood, you need to use it.
    Because now all this is given at a very low cost, compared with wartime.
    So all of our agreements and concessions translate into additional weapons, the growth of our power.
  • do
    do 12 February 2016 12: 39
    0
    A typical representative of the 5th column.
  • Urals
    Urals 12 February 2016 12: 41
    0
    The collapse of the USSR and the subsequent bloodshed (which continues to this day) began with such "stateeks" ... Shoot the author like a provocateur (with cakes and eggs))))!
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 12 February 2016 12: 50
      +2
      Quote: Ural
      provocateur (cakes and eggs))))!

      What is this picture? Advertising of the "Culinary duel" program or something.
      1. Urals
        Urals 12 February 2016 13: 01
        +1
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        Quote: Ural
        provocateur (cakes and eggs))))!

        What is this picture? Advertising of the "Culinary duel" program or something.

        Transfer "Smak" Makarevich ... laughing
    2. mikh-korsakov
      mikh-korsakov 12 February 2016 14: 08
      0
      And it's not too lazy to spend money on food, this character could have been cheaper and cheaper. Specific examples can be found in the writings of the Right Sector in Ukraine. The "brilliant green" went well there.
  • hartlend
    hartlend 12 February 2016 12: 42
    +1
    Einstein survived, but sorry.
    The author went too far. Yes, there are plenty of jingoistic patriots on the site, but decisions are not made here. The choice is made, the priorities are set. Russia and the United States are fighting continuously, now this is the point of application of force in Syria and Ukraine. It is possible and necessary to fight on other priorities, war in the generally accepted sense is a low class in work. In general, we have no choice to fight or not; we have a choice of means and methods of waging war. And hurray-patriots "grow up" over time and become real patriots.
  • mikh-korsakov
    mikh-korsakov 12 February 2016 12: 42
    0
    That's right, the author is breaking through the open doors when he convinces us of that. that negotiating is better than fighting. The author left unanswered the commentator’s remark that they supposedly agreed with Hitler, even advancing on their own ideals, yielded to him and assented to him, Stalin ignored intelligence warnings - AND WHAT IT LET. But the author is silent about whether it is possible to negotiate with the enemy, being by far the weaker side in the negotiations. The author contradicts his own logic convincing us. that our weapons in their mass are outdated. If this is so, then our negotiating opponents certainly know about this, which means that during the negotiations they will behave arrogantly and will concede to us only knowing that we possess nuclear weapons. But they know about it this way too, therefore they behave unceremoniously to some red line. So what's the point of negotiating? Let the author give at least one example from history when we won the negotiations. being a weakness - it is possible to reduce damage (Gr. Witte and the Portsmouth Treaty), but to defend your point of view - never (remember the truce in San Stefano and the Berlin Treatise). Europe gave us a shortcut, although we won the war against the Turks.
    1. domokl
      domokl 12 February 2016 13: 04
      +2
      bully I'll catch up .. Have you read the articles? And the one to which the link is also this? The question is not in the contracts, in the restoration of contacts that were interrupted after the events in Ukraine .. about some sort of ustpki, contracts and other matters the question was not even raised fellow
      1. mikh-korsakov
        mikh-korsakov 12 February 2016 13: 21
        0
        I read the articles. Why contacts without negotiations? Launch the diplomatic veil a la Grushko, politely indicating to the enemy what and where he is wrong, that his actions will not contribute to something there. as if he himself did not know about it. This is worthless. You may object that an unauthorized incident can be prevented. But such are prevented by direct emergency calls, which, as I know, no one has canceled, contacts on the Russia-NATO Council are too slow, in case of incidents they call directly.
        1. Urals
          Urals 12 February 2016 16: 39
          0
          Quote: mikh-korsakov
          I read the articles. Why contacts without negotiations? Launch the diplomatic veil a la Grushko, politely indicating to the enemy what and where he is wrong, that his actions will not contribute to something there. as if he himself did not know about it. This is worthless. You may object that an unauthorized incident can be prevented. But such are prevented by direct emergency calls, which, as I know, no one has canceled, contacts on the Russia-NATO Council are too slow, in case of incidents they call directly.

          I don’t understand ... Well, you give a pancake! )))
  • veksha50
    veksha50 12 February 2016 12: 43
    +3
    Um ... The article is not perceived unambiguously ... Most agree with the author, but there is no need to say that the patriots call bombs and shells on the heads of civilians ...

    The guys, in my opinion, proceeded from the opposite, but could not logically complete their thoughts ...

    But the essence is that nobody will ask us, they will want to - and SAMI will bring these shells and bombs to the heads of our population ... And here the basic idea is clearly visible: it is impossible to trust NATO !!! We need to prepare for the war that they want to bring to our territory and to our heads ...

    But NATO ... look how they behaved rudely and behave even when, it would seem, there was a link between NATO and the RF Armed Forces ... How do their warships behave in the waters of the Black and Baltic Seas ... They they feel at home there !!!

    See how they behave now when the Russian Federation offers a ceasefire in Syria ... And much more ...

    Therefore, the main conclusion is that a compromise is needed, Russia does not need a war, but NATO cannot be trusted and gunpowder must be dry ...

    PS I especially agree with the author that if you do not have to fight today or tomorrow, then with OLD weapons, using mainly the old foundation ... So far, as well as specialists who masterfully own it, the cat has cried ...
  • Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 12 February 2016 12: 43
    +1
    And he will run around the range not with "Abakan", but with an old "Kalash" or SVD.

    His happiness. smile
    For the reviews on "Abakan" were rather negative - "a machine gun for a shooting range, not for a field."
  • rJIiOK
    rJIiOK 12 February 2016 12: 44
    +4
    The author is right. Do the Russians want war? no earlier. And now many people want, and how then will we differ from "them"? And work for the Western myth of aggressive Russians.
  • vadostar
    vadostar 12 February 2016 12: 47
    0
    No wonder they say: Want Peace, get ready for WAR
  • Oznob
    Oznob 12 February 2016 12: 48
    +1
    Geopolitical rivals will not start a nuclear war, it is not profitable. The classic war against the "gun barons" draws fabulous profits. The more they shoot, the more income. But the nuclear one nullifies any sense of money and power, this is the weapon of the frostbitten ones for the whole tower. (That, yes, our visor falls from only sidelong glances at the Motherland.)
    Another thing is to rake the heat with the wrong hands. In such matters, some Baaals are masters.
    And yes, NATO is such a NATO, they negotiate and discuss only when they are "NATO", and if they are not "NATO", then just like a bum and not in the suit with some Untermensch from Russia about something to negotiate.
  • LVMI1980
    LVMI1980 12 February 2016 12: 48
    +3
    What did you attack the author?
    He expressed his opinion, brought his arguments
    If you disagree with him, bring your counterarguments, and do not attack the author, this is not Maidan
    I disagree with the author in many ways, but I consider his arguments with interest
    1. Imperialkolorad
      Imperialkolorad 12 February 2016 13: 05
      0
      So, like, no one offers to lynch him. There are a lot of detailed and well-grounded opinions in the posts.
  • leshiy076
    leshiy076 12 February 2016 12: 49
    +2
    I have only one question for the author. You that history does not teach you anything? Russia and the West will never have either understanding or dialogue. As long as the world is ruled by Zionists, TNCs, bankers and other evil spirits, Russia will always interfere with them. Their centuries-old dream is to dismember Russia into many small principalities. Remember the feudal fragmentation that Russia was then. Yes, practically nothing, come whoever you want and take what you want. That is what the neighbors were doing. But as soon as the Russian Empire arose, many people immediately appeared who wanted to destroy it. And all because, as Emperor Alexander III said, "They are afraid of our enormity." In addition, for the Anglo-Saxons, whose statehood arose on the ruins of the Western Roman Empire, we, as they were barbarians in their understanding, will remain. This is their mentality, this is how they see us and will always see us. There are a lot of such examples, you just have to look into history. And for this, whatever one may say, no one will ever refute the phrase "Si vis pacem - para bellum". In addition, Russia has always supported and supports traditional human values. The West (world Zionism), on the contrary, has set itself the goal of destroying these values. That's the answer to all the questions.
  • MATROSKIN-53
    MATROSKIN-53 12 February 2016 12: 50
    +1
    Thank God that patriotism is always alive in the Russian soul! Love to motherland! It is absorbed into us with mother's milk. That is how my mother cut it and did not change it. Therefore, no matter how difficult it may be, our country smashed enemies and will smash them. "You can't understand Russia with your mind. You can't measure a yardstick for a long time. She has a special become. You can only believe in Russia!" And again: "Bullets with you still have mercy on us. But having believed three times that life is all, I was still proud of the sweetest, Russian land where I was born. For the fact that it was bequeathed to me to die on it. That Russian Mother gave birth to us. And a Russian woman accompanied us into battle. She hugged me three times in Russian. "
  • Tolstoevsky
    Tolstoevsky 12 February 2016 12: 55
    0
    I haven’t read such a dull /// long time ago on
  • Flinky
    Flinky 12 February 2016 12: 58
    0
    it is worth entering the Black Sea, for example, the Americans, respectively, to introduce several strike groups of ships

    The author does not catch up, it seems ... Coastal defense for what? The Black Sea sweeps us along and across. What does the fleet have to do with it?
    1. domokl
      domokl 12 February 2016 13: 19
      +2
      And I read a report on the capabilities of the fleets in the event of a collision in the World Cup. There are about such numbers and are given. And the fleet includes not only ships, but everything that is somehow tied to the fleet and fleet infrastructure. Even electronic warfare and air defense ..
      1. Makarov
        Makarov 12 February 2016 13: 43
        +1
        can I link and whose report is this?
        1. Makarov
          Makarov 12 February 2016 15: 02
          +1
          Konstantin Sivkov coped it himself ...
    2. kuz363
      kuz363 12 February 2016 16: 50
      -1
      Well, it’s one thing to shoot at Georgian boats in 2008, and another thing is to shoot at US ships. In addition, there is no guarantee that anti-ship missiles will reach them. After all, their ships have a missile defense against ballistic missiles in the form of Standard missiles. And ballistic speed is higher than that of anti-ship twice. So anti-ship missiles for missile defense are just seeds.
      1. Bakht
        Bakht 12 February 2016 17: 24
        +3
        This is ridiculous. As a non-military person, I was always interested in why everyone is so sure of the invincibility of the AUG? Which connection has great chances of victory: the whole AUG or the UNSUMPTABLE aircraft carrier Crimea. It seems to me that even all the AUGs of the USA taken together have no chance.

        The dialogue below is, of course, a joke. But meaningful

        Spaniards (background noise): “... A-853 says, please turn 15 degrees south to avoid a collision with us. You are moving right at us, a distance of 25 nautical miles. ”

        Americans (background noise): “We advise you to turn 15 degrees north to avoid a collision with us.”

        Spaniards: “The answer is no. We repeat, turn 15 degrees south to avoid a collision. "

        Americans (different voice): “The captain of the ship of the United States of America speaks to you. Turn 15 degrees north to avoid a collision! ”

        Spaniards: "We do not consider your proposal either possible or adequate, we advise you to turn 15 degrees south so as not to crash into us."

        Americans (in elevated tones): “CAPTAIN RICHARD DEYMS HOWARD SAYS WITH YOU, COMMANDER OF THE USS LINCOLN CARRIER, THE NAVY OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA AND THE SECURITY OF THE SHIP. We are escorted by 2 cruisers, 6 destroyers, 4 submarines and numerous support ships. I DO NOT “ADVISE” YOU, I “ORDER” TO CHANGE YOUR COURSE FOR 15 DEGREES IN THE NORTH. OTHERWISE, WE WILL BE FORCED TO TAKE THE NECESSARY MEASURES TO ENSURE THE SAFETY OF OUR SHIP. PLEASE IMMEDIATELY REMOVE OUR COURSE !!! ”.

        Spaniards (quite calmly): “Juan Manuel Salas Alcantara speaks to you. There are two of us. We are accompanied by our dog, dinner, two bottles of beer and the canary, which is now sleeping. We are supported by the Cadena Dial de la Coruna radio station and channel 106 “Extreme situations at sea”. We are not going to turn anywhere, given that we are on land and so far are only the lighthouse of the A-853 of the Finisterra Strait of the Galician coast of Spain. And one more thing: we do not have the slightest idea what place in size we occupy among the Spanish lighthouses. You can take all of your ... measures that you consider necessary, and do whatever you want to ensure the safety of your ... ship, which will soon crash into cliffs. Therefore, we again strongly recommend that you do the most meaningful thing: change your course 15 degrees south! ”

        Americans: "Ok, accepted, thanks."
        1. Cat man null
          Cat man null 12 February 2016 17: 55
          -1
          Quote: Bakht
          The dialogue below is of course a joke

          According to some reports - not a joke laughing

          Really recorded conversation between Spaniards and Americans on the frequency "Extreme situations at sea" of the navigation channel 106 in the strait http://www.argolis-yacht.ru/Articles/Mayak_USA.htm (Galicia). October 16, 1997


          http://www.argolis-yacht.ru/Articles/Mayak_USA.htm


          Cool cartoon, thanks for reminding me yes
          1. Bakht
            Bakht 12 February 2016 18: 04
            +1
            Joke. Checked. This aircraft carrier at the indicated time was off the coast of Canada. We specifically checked. But still. Everyone laughed.

            And if without laughter, then what are the chances of two, three or even five strike groups of ships against the Black Sea Fleet ?. Given that the Fleet is not only ships, but also coastal services and radio-electronic units and air defense and aviation and coastal defense? A flock of submarines and missile boats. Moreover, you can even shoot from the Caspian, as it became known recently.

            Which American admiral will climb into the Black Sea? The whole trick of joining the Crimea was precisely that this peninsula alone holds the entire southern flank of NATO.
          2. Weyland
            Weyland 12 February 2016 20: 04
            +1
            Quote: Cat Man Null
            Galicia).


            only in Russian is pronounced, of course, Galiсia (a Spanish province north of Portugal) - not the one that has a Bandera nest!
  • Indifferent
    Indifferent 12 February 2016 12: 59
    0
    The author apparently forgot how we signed the "Non-Aggression Pact" with the United Hitler Europe, and less than two years later Europe wiped its ass with this pact. It will be the same with NATO. They promised us that they would not expand to the East. Now they are 700 km from Moscow and continue to concentrate their forces.
    The military does not mean anything in NATO in any other military organization. Everything is done by politicians. And these are vile and vile creatures. They have long shown to us and to the whole world that they understand only the language of power. It is not necessary to negotiate with them, but to create weapons and such that they will be afraid. And then it will be possible to talk with them at least about something.
    And so it is necessary to officially declare to the whole world. For any act of their aggression with at least ONE cruise missile or ONE bomber, a massive nuclear strike will follow in response to all available forces.
    This will quickly sober them up and force them to abandon a massive non-nuclear strike on our territory. After all, at the same time, all cruise missiles cannot reach our goals. So the answer will be serious.
    And chewing snot in Brussels to our high officers together with the NATO command is too expensive for our budget and completely useless.
    1. domokl
      domokl 12 February 2016 13: 22
      +3
      laughing The author simply hoped that the people would read the article ... And it says that it is necessary to restore contacts in the form of a Russia-NATO council, as it was before 14. So that planes and ships do not shoot each other with a fool in neutral waters or the sky for some reason .. bully