Military Review

MH-17. Even the Dutch began to suspect something ...

139
The other day, the families of the dead passengers of the Malaysian Boeing shot down over the Donbas decided to turn to the Netherlands investigation commission (the so-called CTIVD service), Ukraine and Russia with the requirement to publish the radar data, which, according to relatives, have remained locked up for them . The Dutch CTIVD and official Kiev routinely pretended that the demands from the relatives of the victims of the plane crash were not heard.


Russia again became the only country whose official representative responded to the demands. This official representative was the deputy head of Rosaviation, Oleg Storchevoy, who, expressing his condolences once again to the families of the victims, said that they themselves were surprised at attempts to delay the publication of the Dutch CTIVD radar data. The fact is that Russia was the first to transfer to the Dutch experts all the radar materials available to our specialists, which shed light on the causes of the tragedy and allow us to give quite definite answers to questions about the main culprit of the MH-17 disaster. The Dutch investigators, having received a set of data from Russia, actually received the information they received, stating that its “premature” publication could “adversely affect the course of the investigation.” Apparently, the relatives of the victims of the catastrophe, before Oleg Storchev’s speech, were informed by the very same Netherlands investigation team that it had no data provided by Russia, which was the reason for putting forward well-founded requirements.

The statement of Oleg Storchevoy in the week published RIA News:
We officially declare that the Russian side, back in August 2014 of the year, that is, immediately after the tragedy, transmitted to the Netherlands Security Council (SCN) all available primary radar data that recorded the flight of flight MH-17. Moreover, Russia still stores these data and is ready to resubmit them to the appropriate authorized organizations. As for satellite imagery, we would like to note that in the very first days after the plane crash, the Russian Federation made public all of its satellite data. In particular, they confirm the movement and increased activity of Ukrainian Buk-type anti-aircraft missile systems directly in the zone of armed conflict in eastern Ukraine on the eve of the tragedy.


MH-17. Even the Dutch began to suspect something ...


The deputy head of Rosavitsiya stated that Russia finds the Dutch investigation to be extremely closed and biased, not relying on a large amount of technical and technological information that is at the disposal of a group of investigators involved in identifying those responsible for the Boeing-777 crash of a Malaysian airline. Oleg Storchevoy called on CTIVD representatives to publish the radar data received from the Russian Federation, and also called for the publication of existing data from the United States and Ukraine. “Or representatives (of these countries) should recognize that they have no such data for some reason,” the representative of the Federal Air Transport Agency added.

It turns out that the Russian representative directly pointed out to the relatives of the victims of the plane crash on those who really conceal information obtained by means of objective control and able to give answers to all questions about the tragedy of MH-17. American satellite images that are still not published by the States are one example of criminal silence.

Against this background, attention is drawn to what happened the other day in the Netherlands. Perhaps, for the first time since the crash of a Malaysian airliner in the country of mills and tulips, sensible people were identified who began to wonder why, “if everything is clear for a long time,” the investigation committee is delaying the moment of the final publication of conclusions? Indeed, if “mega-experts” are collected in the commission, at whose disposal there is not only time, but also a full range of data on the flight of the aircraft, the work of dispatching services, etc. etc., then, as they say in the West: "Wye ?!"

Why the commission pulls, - not only the relatives of the victims, but also the mass media, as well as (oh, horror - for the investigative commission), the Dutch parliamentarians are wondering.

On Twitter, a man named Peter Omtsigt (Pieter Omtzigt) - and this, for a moment, is a member of the Dutch parliament and a member of the Netherlands commission at the Council of Europe - amid claims that Putin was not through the help of Rosaviation officials, and not through the press, and writing directly to the addresses of the relatives of the victims of the plane crash to answer their demands, literally this:

The head of the CTIVD service (the one that conducts the investigation - author's note) confirms: only Ukraine 17 July in the eastern regions (in the region attacking "Boeing") had combat-capable complexes "Buk".


Omtzigt made such a record from the meeting room, where at that moment the hearings on the case of the downed airliner took place.

This is a screen tweet (the Omtzigt tweet itself can be found in the Dutch deputy’s microblog in January 22 notes from 2016 of the year - link):



The same Omtsigt writes: the Dutch special services do not have any information that the “Buk” could be imported from the territory of Russia. And the Dutch deputy precisely this information was asked to comment on his subscribers in the social network.

In general, despite attacks on the Russian Federation in the style of “Putin, it would be better for him to write a letter with a report on radar data to the relatives of the victims”, the deputy Omtsigt is categorical: a) the Ukrainian troops are the only force that possessed an efficient “Buk” on the day of the attack on Boeing; b) the Dutch special services do not confirm the materials that the “Beech” to 17 July 2014, allegedly could deliver from the territory of Russia. In this case, the Omtzigt in the first case is based on the CTIVD intra-parliamentary report, and in the second - on the statement of the Dutch special services.

And just a few days ago - February 4 - in the Dutch press (a major Dutch publication Elsevier) material appears journalist Eric Vriysen (Eric Vrijsen) (link - here) entitled as follows:

"MH-17: Ukraine is mired in its own lies?"

Friysen writes that in Kiev they said that the representatives of the Security Service of the Netherlands never requested Ukraine has radar data on the MH-17 crash case. When in Holland they made a fuss about this, exclaiming: “that is, how was it not requested?”, They suddenly stated in Kiev that the Minister of Infrastructure, who, by the way, spoke Dutch, “did not understand so well”. How was it necessary to understand the minister, who, before becoming a minister, had internship in Delft, Kiev did not explain ...

As a result, it turned out that Kiev nevertheless provided the Dutch Security Council with information, but this information was (attention!) From 23 July 2014. Well, yes ... The Dutch Security Council didn’t really request the radar data from 23 July 2014 from Kiev, because it’s these data that are not needed for it - a blow to the Boeing July 17 was delivered ... And moreover One confusion:

Kiev previously reported that its radars in the Donbass did not work throughout July - they say, we simply cannot provide the radar data of interest to you;

but now it turns out that 23 July radars suddenly earned ... So maybe they worked on the 17 number, just Kiev, for Dutch reasons already understandable, is silent.

Such a frank juggling of the facts caused a storm of indignation at the same Friisen and other representatives of the Dutch press, in addition, familiarized with the tweet of the deputy Omtzigt about the Ukrainian capable "Bukakh", which the Ukrainian military had in the MH-17 strike zone.

The same journalist (Friysen) writes (better late than never ...) that Ukraine did not warn European colleagues about the risks of flying over the eastern regions of the country. Earlier in Kiev, they said that she seemed to be “trying to warn”, but again this categorical Omtzigt. It turned out that the Dutch deputy had submitted requests to the airline and dispatching services of countries that collaborated in terms of air travel with Ukraine, and found that no warnings from Kiev about the insecurity of flights over the Donbas had been received. Eric Friysen writes that this, firstly, smacks of negligence, and, secondly, Ukraine’s attempt to hide the truth about the real culprit of the MH-17 crash.
Author:
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  1. I am Groot
    I am Groot 11 February 2016 06: 51
    61
    finally began to see clearly ... otherwise Putin Putin !!
    1. Sensatus
      Sensatus 11 February 2016 07: 04
      123
      Ten people began to suspect, and a hundred would say what they were told. And it is precisely among the hundreds that there will be those who make decisions and shout the loudest. So for now, I would not particularly hope for their common sense.
      1. I am Groot
        I am Groot 11 February 2016 07: 34
        17
        I agree with you! maybe even ten out of a thousand ... but these ten are beginning to understand that not everything is good in the Dutch kingdom ... but if these ten are relatives of the victims, then these ten will be worth a hundred !!!
        1. Villon
          Villon 11 February 2016 10: 31
          11
          Quote: I am Groot
          and if these ten relatives of the victims, then these ten will be a hundred worth !!!

          Think of Kennedy. Relatives, and with them the whole country, suspect, do not even suspect, but are sure that it was not Oswald who killed Kennedy, and the official version still says that Kennedy was killed by Oswald, a loner who died immediately after being arrested, and no one else. All other versions are declared "conspiracy theories", and those who not only disseminate them, retell them, but even listen to them, are considered people who go beyond the mental norm. And in countries with developed medicine, this is serious.
          1. ver_
            ver_ 11 February 2016 18: 51
            +4
            ... Kennedy swims shallow compared to the Lunar expeditions ...
        2. The comment was deleted.
      2. Villon
        Villon 11 February 2016 10: 22
        +5
        And even if a hundred people suspected, there will always be ten people whose opinion will outweigh a hundred, and a hundred will agree and remain silent, because these ten are special, "right" people.
      3. Rostislav
        Rostislav 11 February 2016 15: 15
        +4
        Stop it.
        Those who make decisions are well aware of everything. And they shout loudly precisely because it is so ordered.
      4. sharp-lad
        sharp-lad 11 February 2016 18: 51
        +2
        Regarding Europe, there is not even one state person in it who is able to make an independent decision without the hint (urgent request) of the owner!
      5. Pasha
        Pasha 11 February 2016 19: 40
        0
        10% is already +.
        we have 10 believe that we attacked Ukraine.
        They are believing all the media outlets and about Boeing too.
        Just do not understand what Ukrainians are doing in Russia with an opinion on censor?
        Why are they allowed across the border?
    2. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 11 February 2016 08: 32
      18
      ›VO, Geopolitics
      MH-17. Even the Dutch began to suspect something ...
      in vain the drugs were legalized from them, they do not slow down according to the "decals" ...
      1. SRC P-15
        SRC P-15 11 February 2016 09: 00
        +6
        "MH-17: Ukraine is mired in its own lies?"

        In Ukraine, they are so deceived with this catastrophe that they themselves already believe in what they say.
        1. ver_
          ver_ 11 February 2016 18: 53
          0
          ... in Ukraine every day the tales of Shahrazada ..
    3. gergi
      gergi 11 February 2016 09: 05
      +6
      Awesome! In less than three years. Are they zombies? I'm crap with these gay people. They began to ripen. Have you learned to read? Use an Internet? Nooo, with such a Europe we are not on the way.
      1. Villon
        Villon 11 February 2016 10: 38
        +1
        Quote: gergi
        Awesome! In less than three years. Are they zombies? I'm crap with these gay people. They began to ripen. Have you learned to read? Use an Internet? Nooo, with such a Europe we are not on the way.

        If a person is shown an "enemy", then he becomes blind and temporarily unable to think. Europe was then shown the "enemy".
      2. Reserve officer
        Reserve officer 11 February 2016 13: 05
        +1
        Started to suspect? This is one of the theories about the death of dinosaurs. Claiming a very slow brain response to signals from sensory receptors. His leg was already bitten off, and he was just beginning to suspect about it ...
      3. Altona
        Altona 11 February 2016 13: 21
        +2
        Quote: gergi
        Awesome! In less than three years. Are they zombies? I'm crap with these gay people.

        ----------------------
        There was media noise at first to confuse everyone. Now that all the procedural deadlines have passed, people began to turn on their heads and compare the facts. Because it is necessary to identify the true culprits and pay the families of the victims some sort of compensation. That is, all the same, find someone who will respond financially. And this, at least as you say, Ukraine. A board crashed over its territory. She did not ensure the safety of overflight over her territory.
    4. Mviktor
      Mviktor 11 February 2016 09: 13
      +7
      Yes, they always knew that Ukraine was to blame, they were just pulling time, waiting for Hohland to fall apart and then tell the truth
      1. ssergn
        ssergn 11 February 2016 10: 00
        +5
        Quote: Mviktor
        hohland fall apart


        just wait for the change of leadership. It looks like the rabbit has already resolved the issue. When they decide what to do with Petunia, then perhaps they will lay out the truth. And now is not the time - just imagine how the population of Europe will perceive providing loans to the murderers of their fellow citizens. These are not civilians of Donbass and Odessa, this is OWN. Something like this.
        1. 97110
          97110 11 February 2016 10: 51
          +3
          Quote: ssergn
          And now is not the time - just imagine how the population of Europe will perceive providing loans to the murderers of their fellow citizens.

          Introduced. It was a pity for the Europeans. There is also a CENTURY-old experience of exhaustive answers to questions from a dull public. Some Chartists wrote a whole chest in the United Kingdom - the Charter. The heavy cavalry was called in to answer. It turned out that broadswords are much more effective than craps. In 1870, the French accumulated questions. Technological progress made it possible to respond with artillery fire. In after (and before) military Germany, curiosity was satisfied by the method of complete immersion (in a concentration camp). Now for the especially dissatisfied there are several million hungry to Europeans. Explanatory work among the hungry is underway. Europeans will also be satisfied. Before they have questions.
          1. ssergn
            ssergn 11 February 2016 11: 55
            +4
            Quote: 97110
            million hungry to europeans


            I partially agree. Just do not forget that the population of Europe (excluding the Russian Federation) is more than 500 million people. And if necessary, no laws will stop certain segments of the population. And there are more and more such layers. And the "refugees" by their behavior only accelerate these processes. Although ... Perhaps this is all calculated. It is quite possible that either a new Reich will emerge on the wave of this, or the same British will raise their heads and "order" will begin to establish.
            1. Barnaul, Altai
              Barnaul, Altai 11 February 2016 17: 21
              0
              Which Reich?
              For the Reich fanatical brainless MUSIC needed.
              The caliphate will be in Europe.
    5. Poppy
      Poppy 11 February 2016 09: 29
      +3
      What does it mean to see clearly? from the very beginning they knew who was to blame, they just needed Ukraine, so they were silent, and now Ukraine has already got everyone - that's why they are starting to merge it on the sly
    6. guzik007
      guzik007 11 February 2016 10: 02
      0
      This is how free sale of weed affects. The information is tasted and digested with great difficulty.
    7. siberalt
      siberalt 11 February 2016 11: 23
      +1
      Lies have short legs. The truth will still come up.
    8. max702
      max702 11 February 2016 13: 02
      +1
      Push, push! And to make a good movie and not one! To buy time on bourgeois channels and to twist it .. True, they may not be able to do it .. But there is the Internet! Here there and using all methods including viral advertising, spam and other options to push the TRUTH! No need to save on propaganda! It's cheaper than fighting in real life ..
    9. Garris199
      Garris199 11 February 2016 20: 30
      +1
      That is, the Dutch, UKR and American side can ignore them altogether, but on our part should Putin personally report? Interesting.
    10. Sharapov
      Sharapov 13 February 2016 14: 56
      0
      The official of the Federal Air Transport Agency reported - they do not like it - give Putin. Although Russia does not conduct an investigation and in fact does not participate in it. At the same time, for some reason, there has been no collision with the rulers of the countries conducting the investigation. However, no one is surprised.
  2. Telemon
    Telemon 11 February 2016 06: 52
    +3
    Chagoy has been changing in the worldview of Gay Europeans lately and this is undeniable. Although slow, BUT true.
    1. Sober
      Sober 11 February 2016 07: 42
      +2
      Quote: Telemont
      Chagoy has been changing in the worldview of Gay Europeans lately and this is undeniable. Although slow, BUT true.

      True, but slowly.
    2. Blondy
      Blondy 11 February 2016 08: 02
      +6
      How much rope does not curl. but the truth will find its way.
      Now there is where to send materials and they will be published.
      It makes sense to recall the fake that our engineers exposed, allegedly the militia’s talks about a downed plane prepared by the SBU (with the Americans on the sixth floor of the headquarters) DAY before the disaster (which means they were prepared in advance). The sanctions that were announced to Russia because of this can not be called otherwise a provocation. About thrown butterfly elements, etc. And to chew them, zombie, that this flight did not bring down the beech, but the APU plane. There were real chances that all this would resonate - still a sensation, albeit with a delay of a year and a half.
  3. DIMA45R
    DIMA45R 11 February 2016 06: 52
    10
    What clever Dutch and cunning Ukrainians ...
    The turtle would crawl to the equator during this time.
    1. ver_
      ver_ 11 February 2016 18: 59
      +1
      ... no-one would eat the dill in a swoop ...
  4. sgg
    sgg 11 February 2016 06: 57
    +3
    Sooner or later, Ukraine will have to admit that they shot down the plane.
    1. Sober
      Sober 11 February 2016 07: 43
      13
      Quote: sgg
      Sooner or later, Ukraine will have to admit that they shot down the plane.

      Yes you sho ??? Yes, rather, the earth will change the poles!
    2. Poppy
      Poppy 11 February 2016 09: 30
      +4
      they did not recognize even in the previous case - they paid compensation, but did not plead guilty, although there it was clearer than clear
  5. sgg
    sgg 11 February 2016 06: 57
    +1
    Sooner or later, Ukraine will have to admit that they shot down the plane.
    1. Amurets
      Amurets 11 February 2016 07: 25
      14
      Quote: sgg
      Sooner or later, Ukraine will have to admit that they shot down the plane.

      Tu-154 in 2004, a flight from Tel Aviv, they still have not recognized and have not paid compensation to Russia.
      1. askort154
        askort154 11 February 2016 08: 01
        10
        Amur ..... Tu-154 in 2004, a flight from Tel Aviv, they still have not recognized and Russia has not paid compensation.

        They confessed two years later, but did not apologize. Kuchma said that such "mistakes"
        happened in other countries. Like, Ukraine did nothing wrong. But compensation for the dead was paid.
        1. Loreal
          Loreal 11 February 2016 08: 30
          +4
          only to the Israelis
          1. askort154
            askort154 11 February 2016 08: 38
            +2
            Loreal .... only to the Israelis.

            Yes, apparently so, the amount is about 7,4 million. And Siberia Airlines presented 15 lim. She was sued until 2013, but she did not sue anything. Kuchma dismissed all the officers involved in conducting these exercises.
            1. Serg81
              Serg81 11 February 2016 11: 05
              0
              In 2014 or 2015, a court in Kiev issued a ruling, such as a plane that was not shot down by Ukraine, and claims against it could be removed. Like this
  6. The black
    The black 11 February 2016 06: 59
    +4
    All these "suspicions" of the Dutch, the statement of the head of the IMF, a film about the junta in France indicate that the Ukraine project is being closed. Now the West will only think about how to save face. But the fact of the drain is obvious.
    1. Sober
      Sober 11 February 2016 07: 49
      +4
      Quote: Black
      project "Ukraine" - is closed.

      With all due respect, I can not agree. Yes, they cannot close it, they cannot. They will pull as much as possible, as long as this thread can withstand. But on this thread all the time, financial strengthening knots are tied.
    2. ruAlex
      ruAlex 11 February 2016 08: 54
      +1
      Not everything is as intended, the project objectives have not yet been achieved. Although there is a general trend of fatigue from Ukraine by Europeans.
      1. Poppy
        Poppy 11 February 2016 09: 34
        0
        it’s just clear to everyone that it’s impossible to achieve goals: Russia doesn’t get involved in the war, doesn’t take Ukraine for maintenance, doesn’t collapse from sanctions - well, it makes sense to spend more money on Ukraine when there are not enough money for gay people on Syrian refugees
    3. Poppy
      Poppy 11 February 2016 09: 32
      0
      Yes, they are turning it up slowly - they are being left to their own devices
    4. oxana_iv
      oxana_iv 11 February 2016 13: 13
      0
      Quote: Black
      ... the project "Ukraine" is closed ...


      The other day, overseas uncles voiced the amounts that they plan to invest in the democratization of neighboring countries. So the project will develop rather than close.
      Judging by the news, a very serious crisis of power has ripened in Ukraine, and, perhaps, in the near future, a new, "good and correct" government will replace the inconvenient and presumptuous government. Then all sins can be hung on the previous office. And again everyone will be happy (for a while)))
  7. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 11 February 2016 07: 02
    +6
    Soon geyropeytsy at the sound of Svidomo speech will experience a gag reflex. How long to. At the time of the Second World War Goebbels’s lies were unconditionally accepted until about the 43rd year, and by the 45th the most stubborn ones ceased to believe.
    1. SSR
      SSR 11 February 2016 08: 10
      +3
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      Soon geyropeytsy at the sound of Svidomo speech will experience a gag reflex.

      Let me disagree! ((as you yourself noticed, these are geyropeytsy and many reflexes from them are otolerasten, including vomiting.
      More than 1.5 years have passed! And they just now began to ask questions of the relatives of the victims, although in my humble opinion this should have happened no later than three months later, at least with a question about the data from the radars.
      There is hope if all of these uncomfortable questions begin to ask someone from the Dutch authorities a level higher than the deputy.
  8. shultc
    shultc 11 February 2016 07: 03
    +3
    The farther from the time of the disaster, the less interest it arouses among the townsfolk and the media (of course, it does not concern the relatives and relatives of the victims). By delaying the investigation and providing information, the United States and Ukraine thereby hope that it will "resolve itself." But there is also God's judgment on everything. And there is no statute of limitations!
  9. 31rus
    31rus 11 February 2016 07: 06
    +6
    Dear, who needs their insights, there are facts, and facts are stubborn things, this whole "soap bubble" will burst sooner or later
  10. Oleneboy_
    Oleneboy_ 11 February 2016 07: 11
    +1
    So long ago, it’s clear to the hedgehog that both the investigation and the publication of facts are delayed. Remember how Ukraine shot down the plane from the S-200. And so? But nothing ...
    1. kil 31
      kil 31 11 February 2016 11: 23
      +2
      Quote: Oleneboy_
      So long ago, it’s clear to the hedgehog that both the investigation and the publication of facts are delayed. Remember how Ukraine shot down the plane from the S-200. And so? But nothing ...

      How is it nothing. In Ukraine, it is believed that we shot down.
      UKRO.Media Kuchma received good money for pleading guilty for Putin. Do not forget that Putin in 2001 just got out with the scandal with the Kursk nuclear submarine, and there is also a scandal with the death of Israeli citizens. So I had to persuade Kuchma and his military to take responsibility for the dead. An indirect proof of this is the fact that the Ukrainian court confirmed the innocence of the military in the Tu-154 crash in 2001. "
      As for the Boeing, they will say that the militias will then take the blame. That would not gloss over Putin. The bulk of Ukrainians believe this.
  11. rsp6
    rsp6 11 February 2016 07: 12
    +1
    Everything secret becomes apparent!
  12. salad
    salad 11 February 2016 07: 12
    +3
    False bastards, they wanted to do a provocation but it didn’t work out, the Ukromorder will have to answer for the tragedy !!
  13. parusnik
    parusnik 11 February 2016 07: 12
    +1
    The awl in the bag can’t be hidden .. it’ll come out anyway ..
  14. Geophizik
    Geophizik 11 February 2016 07: 14
    +3
    The political background of the concealment of the flagrant facts of the death of the Malaysian Boeing was immediately obvious. Now, when hiding the facts becomes not only extremely difficult, but also, in fact, pointless, the truth that it is the Ukrainian warriors who are the executors of the provocation becomes obvious. I’m not sure that the carefully hidden genuine radar data, official records of Ukraine’s dispatching services, data on the deployment and movements of the missile systems of the Ukrainian military aviation and the flights of Ukrainian air forces will be published soon. But even without these data, the conclusion that Ukraine is unequivocally guilty of the death of the aircraft is no longer in doubt.
  15. Monster_Fat
    Monster_Fat 11 February 2016 07: 16
    17
    Well, and what's the point of the fact that someone in the west "began to suspect", "to see clearly"? Everybody has a long time ago "shit" on this "Boeing" - "his job" he has already done. Maybe everyone has already forgotten, but it was the disaster of the ill-fated Boeing that became the catalyst for the introduction of sanctions against Russia? Have you already heard of Merkelsha's speech when she angrily branded Russia, accusing it of this "crime" and splashing saliva screaming that this bloody murder of innocent people "overflowed the patience" of the entire civilized world? Even if tomorrow everyone points directly to Ukraine as the culprit of the disaster, sanctions have already been introduced and no one will remove them. "The Moor has done his job."
  16. Vita vko
    Vita vko 11 February 2016 07: 24
    +3
    Is the Federal Air Transport Agency also committed to non-disclosure ?! Russia has more than enough objective monitoring data, satellite images, and possibly ground service negotiations. It’s high time to hold a press briefing and make it public.
    1. Amurets
      Amurets 11 February 2016 07: 36
      +2
      Quote: Vita VKO
      Is the Federal Air Transport Agency also committed to non-disclosure ?! Russia has more than enough objective monitoring data, satellite images, and possibly ground service negotiations. It’s high time to hold a press briefing and make it public.

      Yes! She took it so as not to show the evidence she had ahead of time. Since again Australia, Ukraine and the Netherlands are trying to organize a new tribunal on flight MH-17. Recently it was in the news. It seems "RIA NOVOSTI".
    2. ferdiperdozzz
      ferdiperdozzz 11 February 2016 11: 13
      +2
      What for ? Let them tumble - they will do less harm in other areas while they are busy.
  17. Leprekon
    Leprekon 11 February 2016 07: 25
    +1
    Quote: I am Groot
    finally began to see clearly ... otherwise Putin Putin !!
    Yes, no one there sees! Most likely, it is we who are trying to fish out in the Western media separate urges to establish the truth and "warm up" our own feelings of justice! In the dispute between the West and Russia, there is no independent, let alone objective press!
  18. cobalt
    cobalt 11 February 2016 07: 28
    +2
    The Dutch are directly worse than the Estonians, well, very much more dddddddoooooollllggyyyyyooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. Apparently, the Dutch task was set before the investigation to tighten the investigation until the relatives of those who died from old age die.
  19. Gormenghast
    Gormenghast 11 February 2016 07: 28
    +1
    Judging by the fact that they stopped pedaling the topic with Boeing, Russia did not manage to somehow tie it up.

    Let us see how the Dutch claims against Ukraine, as a country that did not ensure security and did not close its airspace, end.
  20. ava09
    ava09 11 February 2016 07: 38
    +9
    I read the comments - I wonder. Who about what, but not one in essence, but it is this: the West and the Ukronazists really needed to bring down this Boeing in order to prepare public opinion for moving the confrontation with Russia to a new, higher level. What, in fact, happened - today the West uses the fruits of provocation and at the same time drags out the time of solving the crime, releasing a couple of possible fold indignation on another lie. When few (relatives) are keenly concerned about the victims, here you can go with repentance, or you can not go. GOALS by that time will be ACHIEVED or, in a negative version for the West, already UNREACHABLE. In any case, the scenario for which this provocation was organized will already be worked out. The sense of recognizing someone's guilt will be like recognizing the United States in organizing a provocation with a South Korean Boeing in 1983 - There is recognition, but no USSR.
    1. Cap.Morgan
      Cap.Morgan 11 February 2016 08: 38
      +1
      Serious image losses. First of all, for Ukraine. Some sixes can even be planted.
  21. igorra
    igorra 11 February 2016 07: 39
    +2
    Khokh.ly cooked their devilish brew for us, but we'll have to sip and disentangle ourselves. You know this as with a child, standing and lying in front of you and you to him: "I myself was little and I click all these stories at once." One thing is bad, we missed the education of Ukraine, and the harmful influence of the gayropean street has borne fruit.
    P.S. It was necessary to beat, maybe people have grown. Would.
    1. Cap.Morgan
      Cap.Morgan 11 February 2016 08: 36
      +3
      Oh well them. It’s full of problems. Siberia out, it is necessary to develop. Far East. Industry is slowly developing.
      1. sharp-lad
        sharp-lad 11 February 2016 19: 26
        0
        Idea!!! It is necessary to transport the khokh.lov to the Russian Far Eastern "disputed" islands and tell them that the islands are theirs from now on! It will be funny to see the Japanese! wassat
  22. shinobi
    shinobi 11 February 2016 07: 45
    +2
    But is it not a swallow of the fact that the EU is abandoning the current Ruin?
  23. 33 Watcher
    33 Watcher 11 February 2016 07: 46
    0
    Why is there so little information in the media? It turns out that so many events are happening ... And even in this article, somehow sparingly, fragmentarily ... It turns out that we hear "out of our ears" about the Dutch intelligence report, about parliamentary inquiries, about the correspondence of the relatives of the victims, and in more detail, with chronology, translations from Dutch ..? I've just rummaged through the resources, somehow about nothing ...
  24. Volga Cossack
    Volga Cossack 11 February 2016 07: 55
    +1
    began to see clearly .......... and how long will it take ????? yes and whether ?????? wait.
  25. Georgey
    Georgey 11 February 2016 07: 58
    +1
    The goals achieved by shooting down an airplane are not clear. It is clear to a normal person that having shot down this plane, Russia receives only damage. This plane did not carry any threat to Russia. Ukrainians apparently wanted him to fall in Russia, but miscalculated.
    1. glasha3032
      glasha3032 11 February 2016 14: 41
      0
      Or is it true that they hoped to bring down Putin’s plane? Everyone thinks that this is Hochma, but they really believed ....
  26. Nikolay71
    Nikolay71 11 February 2016 08: 14
    +2
    MH-17. Even the Dutch began to suspect something
    Yeah ... less than one and a half years. I agree that Boeing has done its job and can now be recognized.
    1. Loreal
      Loreal 11 February 2016 08: 33
      0
      What does the Buk have to do with it?
  27. Siberian1965
    Siberian1965 11 February 2016 08: 14
    +2
    Quote: Telemont
    Chagoy has been changing in the worldview of Gay Europeans lately and this is undeniable. Although slow, BUT true.

    So it, Ukraine, stinks more and more. The rotten carcass is usually thrown away, and these lepers all climb Europe. Therefore, the tolerants are beginning to see the tender noses of their new member charming.
  28. ibu355yandex.ru
    ibu355yandex.ru 11 February 2016 08: 17
    0
    So what?!? Guilty appointed and published results will testify to the fault of Russia. And the delay with their publication is most likely associated with editing the text of the conclusion in order to eliminate obvious inconsistencies and inconsistencies. And not a single voice of reason 10, even if it is of a high position, a person will not exert influence on this process. Anglo-Saxons gave the command and it must be executed !!!
  29. 1536
    1536 11 February 2016 08: 18
    +1
    So who shot down the plane? And on whose orders was he shot down? These are war criminals. They are guilty of crimes against humanity. And must stand trial. Or does the American president still, looking at himself in the mirror, consider “black” white and “white” black?
  30. Armored optimist
    Armored optimist 11 February 2016 08: 21
    +1
    It is necessary to invite all relatives and interested journalists from their countries to us, show all the materials, the Buk air defense system live, give each cubes and I-beams from the Buk warhead, SU-25, explosive missiles, tell how it works, how they set up an experiment with the a training ground, show US satellite images and ours on the disaster and others for comparison, give them in hand to see how the Americans can shoot and how they deliberately worsened the quality of the frames "related" to the disaster. With magnifying glasses in hand, let them examine all the materials, understand how the fakes were made, tell about the disappeared dispatcher, etc.
    1. glasha3032
      glasha3032 11 February 2016 14: 44
      0
      The problem is that they don’t want to see anything anywhere, they know all this very well, but this is their position.
  31. gla172
    gla172 11 February 2016 08: 23
    27
    _____________---.
    1. Konstantin Yu
      Konstantin Yu 11 February 2016 14: 19
      0
      That's right .. It's not even double standards, it's As always shit .. on everything and everyone (whatever you say and do). Krylov is eternal ....
  32. Corsair0304
    Corsair0304 11 February 2016 08: 23
    +2
    In fact, the conclusions of the commission to the world community are needed insofar as. Everything has long been forgotten, the intensity was asleep. And even if suddenly the special commission suddenly sees and declassifies and even (Oh, horror!) Finds Ukraine guilty of deliberate destruction of a civil aircraft, but all the same this news is crushed by the flow of information about Syria, the disruption of negotiations due to attacks by our air forces, the election race in these and afrokroobesami in Europe.
  33. Cap.Morgan
    Cap.Morgan 11 February 2016 08: 28
    -1
    " in Kiev they suddenly announced that the Minister of Infrastructure, who, incidentally, spoke Dutch, “didn’t understand that”."
    What language does he speak there?
    You are the author!


    They would be glad to forget everything. They are pulling time, in the hope that future events with their catastrophic eclipse the wrecked aircraft))
    1. Volodin
      11 February 2016 13: 29
      0
      Quote: Cap.Morgan
      What language does he speak there?
      You are the author!


      He spoke in Dutch, answering questions from Amsterdam. Well, there is such a language ...
  34. Mikhail Krapivin
    Mikhail Krapivin 11 February 2016 08: 39
    +1
    Yes, it's all crap. The article is good, optimistic, but far from reality. They do not publish, because in their opinion the time has not come yet. And when the time comes, I think, to justify the attack on Russia, they will publish an "amazing" report, where no one will have any doubts - bearded Russian Cossacks with bloody daggers in their teeth fired a rocket at a peaceful plane, while laughing disgustingly and discussing how they they would rob the suitcases of poor passengers and rape their still warm bodies, aimed and pressed the button personally to the GDP, and Shoigu gave him a rocket, the heroic Porosenko in a jump tried to close the plane from the rocket with his fat carcass, but did not jump, etc. etc. Nobody in the fucking west is interested in the truth, for them truth is expediency. Advantageous - we will declare Russia to be guilty and no evidence, arguments and facts can change anything. All that Russia can in this situation is to yell at the whole world with the help of RT and other means, ahead of its opponents.
    1. Samoyed
      Samoyed 11 February 2016 11: 37
      +1
      Brute force! I live in Lithuania and I do not care if it becomes scorched or not. Therefore, I do not believe naglosaksam. And VO helps to understand something.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  35. Alex_T
    Alex_T 11 February 2016 08: 52
    +2
    The United States, of course, has evidence of who shot it down, and that is why the entire current top leadership of Ukraine will comply with all the instructions and wishes of the United States. As soon as they disobey, the facts of the events of 17/07/2014 will immediately pop up.
  36. afrikanez
    afrikanez 11 February 2016 08: 55
    0
    From the very beginning it was clear to us who shot down and only after a year and a half they began to suspect. What explains this, most likely in the inhibited development of Western countries. No, of course, this is a great desire to denigrate Russia. But somehow it doesn’t work with them.
  37. kig
    kig 11 February 2016 08: 59
    0
    All versions will be more or less likely to prove that the unfortunate Boeing was shot down by the other side. And that other side with the same probability will deny. For example, quote:Ukrainian troops - the only force that had a combat-ready "Buk" on the day of the strike on the "Boeing" Opponents can quote from the article http://vz.ru/news/2014/7/14/695525.html and ask: if on July 14 the BUK was completely combat-ready, how can you prove that the 17th was not already? The path to the truth is very long and difficult.
  38. LeftPers
    LeftPers 11 February 2016 09: 12
    +1
    When will the bucket be hanged publicly?
    1. Evrepid
      Evrepid 11 February 2016 13: 12
      0
      Answer: Never! For not figs!

      I hope this was a rhetorical question, just as the answer is also rhetorical :)
  39. the47th
    the47th 11 February 2016 09: 13
    0
    Someone was driven away from the trough, and this someone decided to turn the whole trough with food. And Boeing is just a convenient excuse.
  40. ARES623
    ARES623 11 February 2016 09: 14
    +2
    "against the background of statements (of the Council of Europe) that Putin should have responded to their demands not with the help of Rosaviatsia officials, and not through the press, but directly to the addresses of the relatives of the victims of the plane crash"
    Dear Council of Europe and citizens of Europe, your native governments don’t give a penny to you and hang on their ears any "cranberries", like cattle, unworthy of attention and respect. Why do you think that the President of Russia should treat you differently and write you personal letters? Not Juan's sombrero ...
  41. mikh-korsakov
    mikh-korsakov 11 February 2016 09: 17
    +1
    I am sure that our competent authorities, as well as in the United States, have information about who exactly shot down the Boeing. I'm even sure that the West knows that we know who shot down the Boeing. Therefore, they are simply trying to squeeze the maximum propaganda effect out of their lies, but in fact they have extinguished the fire in the mainstream, leaving the barking of their mongrels with a smaller caliber. A legitimate question arises "why are we" embarrassed "to publish the data we have? And we are not ashamed, Storchevoy published our data immediately after the incident with the plane, it is interesting to know whether they are complete? Another thing is that they were put under the carpet. it seems that our "friends and partners" will completely forget about this story as soon as they think that the maximum propaganda effect has been achieved.
  42. oxotnuk86
    oxotnuk86 11 February 2016 09: 34
    +1
    Everyone will drive the fool around in a circle and the Dutch and Ukrainians until the regional committee gives the go-ahead and this is not 10 years.
  43. engineer
    engineer 11 February 2016 09: 41
    +1
    the closed investigation is already saying that. that the matter is dark. but they will not tell the truth or they will say in 20 years.
  44. kirgudu
    kirgudu 11 February 2016 10: 27
    0
    Everyone knows that the militia and Russia did it. True, no one is interested; the one who owns the media owns the world. And no one will ever know that Ukrainians or other henchmen of the USA did this.
  45. fa2998
    fa2998 11 February 2016 10: 40
    0
    Quote: Sensatus
    So for now, I would not particularly hope for their common sense.

    This consequence in Holland will receive a powerful impetus only after a change in the power of Kiev and overseas sponsors! Then you can tell the TRUTH, but for now there will be crush water in the mortar! yes hi
  46. Black
    Black 11 February 2016 10: 41
    0
    Who needs Truth now. We don't, we know her, they don't either (they know her no worse than us). Because the circus will continue for a very long time.
  47. stas132
    stas132 11 February 2016 10: 58
    +3
    It was somehow forgotten that the words of the flyer "... the wrong side was shot down" flashed in the first weeks. Apparently, they wanted to dump our First Leader, but now this is too inconvenient truth for everyone, more inconvenient than a bunch of civilians.
  48. triglav
    triglav 11 February 2016 11: 07
    +1
    In, and the Dutch began to see clearly. Soon the Netherlands will be asked to join us as allies.
  49. Scud
    Scud 11 February 2016 11: 43
    +1
    No one is wondering, what is the motive or why should the rebels bring down an aircraft that does not pose any threat to them? Even if they had a BUK, the operators would categorically determine the type of aircraft.
  50. iouris
    iouris 11 February 2016 12: 24
    +1
    These Dutch people turn out to live by concepts.
    Only investigative authorities can suspect.
    All victims should go to court to the carrier, and not write to Putin.
    The court will determine who are the parties to the case. After that, the parties submit evidence of innocence.
    The question immediately arises: why did the route pass over the war zone.
    1. kunstkammer
      kunstkammer 11 February 2016 15: 03
      +1
      apply to the court for the carrier, and not write to Putin

      "you argue with appalite, honestly" ...
      Everyone (on Mandan E) saw how a little Putin-like man waved for a long time with a chumadan full of 40 (forty) billion dollars aiming at some sort of aerial target in the sky.
      Then this man with a cry: And-them! Threw his chyumadan and hid in the nearest alley.
      Cheese (Dutch) fell out ...
      Yaytsenyuk swears that a whisker is so blatant!