Military Review

“Know that the sun of the Russian land has gone down!”

124
“Know that the sun of the Russian land has gone down!” Great reign


The Grand Duke of Vladimir Andrei Yaroslavich, intermarried with Prince Daniel of Galicia, together with his father-in-law began to act as a decisive opponent of peaceful relations with the Golden Horde. Daniel swallowed the "bait" of the West and hoped for help from European countries in the fight against the Horde. It was a gamble. Neither of them had any real military forces capable of opposing the Horde. And Western rulers were not going to support the Russian princes in the fight against the Horde. Most likely, they wanted the Horde to weaken the Russian principalities even more so that they could be easily subdued.

As a result, the Grand Duke Vladimirsky stopped collecting tribute in favor of the Horde and did not take more expensive gifts to the Shed, causing irritation of the Golden Horde princes. Alexander Yaroslavich Nevsky tried to protect his younger brother from unwise decisions, but without success.

Worried Alexander and Norway. On the Kola Peninsula, the people of Novgorod faced the Norwegians. There was an urgent need to determine the state border of Russia with Norway. A representative embassy is sent to her king, who also has the task of wooing the son of Alexander Nevsky, Vasily, for the daughter of the Norwegian king Cristina. The border was determined, but the matchmaking did not take place. In 1251, Alexander Nevsky concluded an agreement with the Norwegian king Hakon IV Old about settling border disputes and delimitations in the collection of tribute from the vast territory inhabited by Karelians and Saami.

In 1251, with the participation of the forces of the Golden Horde, the ally Batuy Munch won a victory in the struggle for sovereignty in the Mongolian empire. The following year, Alexander again came to the Horde, trying to divert disaster from the Russian lands. King Batu was well aware of what was happening in Russia. The words and actions of Grand Prince Vladimir Andrey and his father-in-law Prince Daniil Galitsky did not remain for him a great secret. Both of them wanted to stand at the head of a wider uprising in Russia in order to free themselves from the power of the Horde. They began to prepare an armed uprising, but clearly they hurried. And hopes for help from the West and a penny were not worth it.

Therefore, when Batu received new evidence of direct insubordination of the Grand Duke of Vladimir, he became angry and ordered to punish the tributary of the Golden Horde, who had come out of obedience and was preparing an open rebellion. The Horde had a rich practice of such punitive campaigns. Possessions of recalcitrant princes were to be plundered and devastated.

A strong horseman moved to Vladimirskaya Rus. At its head, the ruler of the Golden Horde put an experienced commander - Prince Nevryuya. Khan Batu ordered him to “bring” Prince Andrey Yaroslavich to Sarai. Alexander Nevsky, who was already in the khan's headquarters, did not know about the campaign “Nevryuyeva rati”. Some researchers blame Alexander for helping to organize a punitive campaign against his brother during his trip to the Horde, but there is no direct evidence for this conclusion. And it is doubtful that the Grand Duke and the brilliant commander, who had repeatedly shown the high human qualities that attracted both ordinary people and enemies to him, could do that.

The battle between the cavalry army of Nevryuy and the few detachments of Prince Vladimirsky Andrei Yaroslavich and Prince of Tver Yaroslav Yaroslavich, who bravely went out to meet the enemy, occurred near the city of Pereyaslavl. The chronicler said about that battle: "And there was a great slaughter, but with the wrath of God, for the multiplication of our sins, the foul Christians would have won the battle." Here we see that the chronicler calls the Horde "unclean", that is, pagans. There were no "Mongolo-Tatars" in Russia. There were Caucasian pagans and Christians, both branches of the Rus superethnos were the direct heirs of Scythian civilization (Great Scythia). Therefore, in the sources in the figures there are no differences between the "Mongols" and the Russians, they were representatives of the same race, their military organization (decimal system) and weapons were of the same type.

Andrei Yaroslavich was broken. He first sought salvation in Novgorod, from where he retired to Sweden. But ordinary people had nowhere to run. Horde once again ravaged the Russian land. Nevryu ruined Pereyaslavl, where the wife of Yaroslav Yaroslavich was killed and the children were captured. Villages of Vladimir-Suzdal land were subjected to terrible devastation. The “Horde” of people, horses and cattle was taken to the Horde. Simultaneously with the campaign "Nevruyeva rati", the 60-thousandth army of the temnik Kuremsa moved to Galicia-Volyn land, and the possessions of Prince Daniil Galitsky were also devastated. The Pope did not provide him with military assistance. True, Daniel continued to resist with some success. And received in 1254, the royal crown. His successors called themselves “Rex Russiae” and “duces totius terrae Russiae, Galicie et Ladimirie” (“the king of Russia” or “the prince of all the land of the Russian, Galician and Vladimir”). That is, no "Ukraine-Rus" never existed. In Galicia, Volynsk and Carpathian Rus always lived Russians, which in the XX century, recorded in the "Ukrainians".

Alexander Nevsky returned from the Horde to Russia with a label on the great reign in the capital city of Vladimir. Such was the will of Batu Khan, who wanted to see the eldest among the Russian princes a loyal and rational person, an authoritative ruler. Batu did not want a new distemper. The inhabitants of Vladimir rendered a solemn meeting to the new grand prince, which testified to the high personal authority of the winner in the Battle of the Neva and the Battle of the Ice. He immediately began to restore the destroyed, to gather into the empty cities and villages the fled as far as the eyes of the people.

Continuing the fight with the West

However, the danger of war once again knocked on the door of Novgorod Russia. A new war followed with its western neighbors. Lithuanians again attacked Toropetsky parish. The eldest son of Alexander Nevsky, who was seated on the Novgorod table, Vasily defeated the Lithuanian army in the battle near the town of Toropets. Then came the Swedish knights. They landed troops from the ships and began to hastily build a fortress on the east, Russian, banks of the Narova River. However, having learned about the formation of the Novgorod militia, the Swedes abandoned the construction of a fortress and "beat across the sea." Then the German knights from Livonia attacked Pskov, but could not take it, only burnt the suburb. Pskov, together with Novgorod and Karelians struck back, they invaded the Baltic States and defeated the German knights on their land, after which peace was concluded on the terms of Pskov and Novgorod. The Pskov invited Yaroslav Yaroslavich of Tver, the younger brother of Alexander Nevsky, to reign.

To prevent the new invasion of the Swedish feudal lords in the lands of Veliky Novgorod, the Grand Duke of Vladimir Alexander Yaroslavich planned a great campaign in Finland, in its central part. By that time, the Swedish knights had conquered the lands of the Finnish tribes, and reached the borders of Karelia, whose population had been an ally of Novgorod since ancient times in opposition to the Swedish invaders.

Novgorod eminent boyars, most of all gladdening for their primordial rights, which were associated with trade with the West, constituted a strong opposition to Alexander Yaroslavich. At the beginning of 1255, the boyars ousted Prince Vasily Alexandrovich, the prince of Novgorod, the son of Nevsky. He with a retinue and a family drove off to Torzhok and waited for help from his father. The Grand Duke was not slow to appear with the squad, moving to Novgorod. After a long and stormy debate, the Novgorod Chamber dismissed the boyar protege Ananias from the post of the city mayor. After that, Alexander Yaroslavich with his team entered Novgorod and himself appointed a mayor of the people loyal to him. He became a popular man, Mikhail Stepanovich, one of the heroes of the battle on the Neva. The freedom-loving Novgorod this time did not oppose the princely will. This was the first time in storieswhen the will of the prince, let him be stronger than Novgorod veche customs. In essence, the future of Novgorod was shown. Novgorod boyars and large merchants were bound by interests with the West, rich in transit trade and trade in local goods. As a result, the Novgorod elite was ready to go under the West, just to maintain personal interest. Alexander, like the future great princes of Vladimir and Moscow, acted in the interests of the entire Russian land.

Soon, the younger brother of Alexander Nevsky, Andrei Yaroslavich, returned from the “German Land” - he was received with “love”. In 1256, Andrei Yaroslavich returned to Russia. Alexander made peace with Khan and gave Gorodets and Nizhny to the lot, and then, with the permission of Khan, and Suzdal. As a result, Andrei Yaroslavich became the founder of a branch of the Suzdal (then Nizhny Novgorod, then Shuisk) princes.

Good relations with the Horde allowed to spend a winter hike in Finland, the possession of the Swedish kingdom. Vladimir and Novgorod warriors were to march along winter roads — roads: channels of frozen rivers and lakes. The Russian army moved to Finland from Koporie, crossing the ice of the Gulf of Finland. Soon the Allied Karelian troops joined her. The Finnish campaign ended successfully — the Russian army did not quite reach the Arctic Circle. Swedish feudal lords had to flee partly to Sweden, partly to “shut up” in stone castles, which local residents helped to take to the Russian soldiers. The result of the campaign was that the Swedes in the subsequent 37 years did not violate the borders of Novgorod Rus, stopping in their advance to the East along the line of the Kymiiyoki River.

In 1257, the Grand Duke of Vladimir Alexander Yaroslavich made a successful trip to the Horde: his younger brother Andrei was forgiven. This was largely due to the fact that one of the Russian princes, Gleb Vasilyevich, married the Horde princess who converted to Christianity. However, at the same time, the policy of Alexander Yaroslavich was subjected to severe testing. The Horde decided to rewrite the entire population of their empire, including Russia, in order to streamline the collection of tribute. Khan's "members" did not delay with the arrival in the Russian principalities. At the same time, the Golden Horde agreed with the arguments of the Grand Duke of Vladimir, so that the Russian princes, who ruled their lands, would be in charge of collecting the tribute. At the same time, Khan obliged Alexander Yaroslavich to assist the “nominees” in the census of the urban and rural population of Russia.

Horde officials came to the Russian land not alone, but accompanied by military detachments, ready, in case of disobedience, to respond with punitive raids. These units were commanded by the Baskaks. "Chislenniki" rewrote the population of Suzdal, Ryazan, Murom and other Russian lands. Their actions were led by the "great baskak" who was sitting in Vladimir. In the course of the census of the Russian population, the Ordynts made it of foremen, centurions and tysyatskys, whose duty was to charge a tribute. This ensured the regular flow of the “exit” from Russia to the Horde. From the tribute freed only the clergy.

In the Vladimir-Suzdal land, the census was rather calm. The "scribes" arrived in Novgorod and there was a serious conflict. Free Novgorod and Pskov, not victims of military defeat, were indignant. They, together with Prince Vasily Alexandrovich, refused to accept Khan’s officials and ambassadors of the Grand Duke. In Novgorod, began unrest. Attempts by the Novgorodian clergy to reassure people did not lead to success. The "black people", the merchants joined the boyars. Posadnik Michael, who tried to persuade the citizens, Novgorod was killed. It went to war and the ruin of the Novgorod land.

Khan officials returned to Vladimir and threatened the Grand Duke that they would complain to the Horde. Alexander perfectly understood, the Horde could again send a large army to Russia. And then thousands and thousands of Russian people will be "trapped" and taken to full, many cities and villages will be subject to ruin. In that military-political situation, this was simply not allowed. It was necessary to pacify the free city, which, with its rampage, was putting all Russia under attack. Alexander Nevsky, the chronicler writes, “having understood the misfortune of thuja”, convened the Yaroslavich brothers and, not without difficulty, endowing with values, persuaded the khan officials to return to Novgorod. He himself, along with his brother Andrew and Rostov Prince Boris, went to Novgorod, taking a strong squad.

In Novgorod, unrest reached its apogee. Prince Vasily Alexandrovich declared that he did not want to obey his father. However, with the approach of the grand duke squads, he fled to Pskov. Novgorodians were quiet, meeting the officials of the Khan peacefully, but refused to census. Then the Horde officials, having received rich gifts, made diplomatic concessions: they drove off to the Horde, allowing the Grand Duke to settle the conflict himself. Alexander Nevsky chose the "lesser evil". According to some sources, he ordered to seize his son Vasily in Pskov and exiled him to Nizovskaya land, to Gorodets Radilov. The grand duke squad without resistance entered Novgorod. The most avid rebel townspeople were severely punished. Tight order in the city was restored. The grand prince appointed Mikhail Fedorovich, a resident of Ladoga, who was not involved in the boyar feuds. The Grand Duke spoke at the Novgorod Chamber, urging citizens to prudence, not to conflict with the Horde, who was at the top of his military power.

In 1259, the census of the Novgorod land began. Khan officials considered the number of souls and all impose the same tribute. This situation suited the boyars and the rich merchants, but not the “black people.” There were numerous riots, which sometimes ended in the murder of the “captives” and their guards. Then the Khan's officials had to take refuge in the Settlement, under the protection of the Grand Duke’s squad. However, the census was continued. As a result, the census was completed. Taking a tribute from the northern Russian lands, the Horde left for Sarai. The next tribute collection was laid on the Novgorod prince. They became a young Prince Dmitry Alexandrovich. After the unrest in Novgorod Russia, caused by the Horde census, there was a lull in Russia. The chronicler noted: "There is a great silence for Christians." It was peaceful next year, 1260.

However, although the world was given a great price, the situation was difficult. The internecine strife between the Russian princes, who seemed to have forgotten about the Batu pogrom, did not cease. Among the appanage princes, a latent opposition to the power of Grand Duke Vladimir, who labeled the great khan for seniority among other rulers in Russia, began to appear. Tver, Ryazan, Yaroslavl and other princes began to go to Sarai to bow to the khan of the Golden Horde in order to gain autonomy of their principalities, each of which separately did not pose a serious threat to either the Horde or the western rulers. Worried Grand Duke Alexander Yaroslavich and Novgorod. There continued to exist a strong boyar opposition to the grand-ducal power, which was based on wealth and ties with the West. Thus, for the unity of Russia, the path was long.

On the western and eastern border was calm. The Swedes, Lithuanians and German knights, frightened by Alexander Yaroslavich’s menacing pace, were afraid of starting a war. The horde, pleased with the order and rich "way out", did not disturb Russia. In 1261, they succeeded in creating a Sarai bishopric in the capital of the Golden Horde. The first bishop in it was Mitrofan. The Orthodox influence in the Horde, where there was a lot of Russian people, intensified. Ordynism began to accept Horde.

In 1261, the ambassadors of the Grand Duke of Lithuania Mindovg arrived in Novgorod. They concluded with the Grand Duke Alexander Yaroslavich a military alliance against German knighthood. The agreement provided for a joint military campaign in Livonia. In 1262, the Russian army, which included the Polotsk squad of Prince Tovtivila and 500 of the Lithuanian warriors, captured the fortified city Derpt-Yuryev, although the German knights managed to hide in the stone citadel. After completing the campaign in the lands of the Order in Veliky Novgorod, the ambassadors from the merchant guilds of Hamburg, Lübeck and other German cities on the Baltic coast arrived to sign a mutually beneficial trade agreement. Thus, the German merchants abandoned the idea of ​​blocking the Baltic trade of Russia with the help of the Livonian Order.

The last feat

1262 was marked by revolts against the Horde. Khan Berke decided that his Baskaks keep most of the requisitions from the Russian lands, transferred the collection from them to the Khiva merchants-usurers. "Bessemeny" handlers contributed money to the Horde's ruler in advance, and then collected tribute in the Russian principalities on an even larger scale than the Khan Baskaks. Those people who could not immediately pay the duty, Khivans gave a delay, but at high interest rates. Their greed did not know the measure.

The 1262 uprising of the year against merchants-usurers began simultaneously in Rostov, Vladimir, Suzdal, Yaroslavl, Pereyaslavl and other cities. The people are no longer "I can not tolerate violence from the unclean." The most hated haunters were “beaten”; others, less tainted by illegal extortion, were “driven out of the cities.” The Grand Duke did not hinder this. There is information that Aleksandr Yaroslavich sent letters of ratification to Russian cities calling for the expulsion of the blasphemers and their minions.

Alexander Nevsky wanted to prevent the punitive campaign of the Horde army and put an end to the system of uncontrollable robbery by the “bessemeny” of the Russian lands. Therefore, Alexander Nevsky once again went to Sarai, "to otmolit people from the trouble." Another goal of the trip, no less important, was to stop the forced recruitment of Russian soldiers into the Horde army. In 1263, the Grand Duke of Vladimir Alexander Yaroslavich last visited the Golden Horde. Khan Berke almost a year kept around him a famous commander of Russia. Tom had to winter at the Khan's headquarters. Alexander achieved his goals: 1) now the collection of "exit" finally passed into the hands of the Russian princes. Russia no longer knew the "bessemenov"; 2) Russian principalities were exempt from military service.

From the Golden Horde, the Grand Duke of Vladimir was returning home completely sick. Apparently, he was poisoned by enemies (many people turned in the Horde, including messengers and spies of the West). In November, Alexander arrived first in Nizhny Novgorod, and then in Gorodets. There he stopped at the Fedorov monastery, in the same place where there was a copy of the particularly revered icon of the Theodore of Our Lady. She is considered the patroness of the Yaroslavich family. In Gorodets, the grand prince-warrior of Ancient Russia fell into an even greater affliction. Accompanying people and monks saw the patient leave the last forces. All were disheartened. Alexander Nevsky, feeling his quick demise, told others: "Go away and do not crush the soul with my pity."

According to the custom of the ancestors, the grand duke called on the hegumen of the monastery and expressed a desire to become a monk: “Father, I am sick of velm ... I do not drink your stomach and will forgive you my tonsure”. It was an Orthodox Christian tradition, when people, before their death, left social life for “black monks”. The last will of the famous warrior was performed. In the cell of the Gorodetsky Fedorovsky Monastery, the Grand Duke of Vladimir Alexander Yaroslavich Nevsky was tonsured as a monk and received a new name Alexy. On the night after the sacrament, 14 on November 1263, he passed away. The coffin with its ashes was transported to Vladimir and, with a large gathering of people, was buried in Bogolyubovo, in the monastery of the Nativity of the Virgin Mary.

Alexander Nevsky will mourn in all corners of the Russian land - the nationwide grief turned out to be so great. In the capital city of Vladimir, Metropolitan Kirill, addressing the people, will say: “My dear children! Know that the sun of the Russian land has gone! ”

People's love and grief are the main indicators of the activities of the Grand Duke and the Soldier. Thanks to Alexander Nevsky, a new page has opened in the history of Russia. Vladimirskaya and then Moscow Rus began to restore their positions step by step, which eventually led to Moscow becoming the main center of the degraded Golden Horde and heir to the northern imperial tradition. With military victories on the western frontiers of the country and skillful policies in the east, Alexander Yaroslavich predetermined the fate of Russia for centuries to come.

Alexander Yaroslavich showed heirs the main strategic line. At its core: 1) an uncompromising, uncompromising struggle with the West and flexible policies in the East; 2) strengthening the centralized grand princely power; 3) overcoming feudal fragmentation, the unity of Russia.

At the same time, Alexander Yaroslavich Nevsky was a great commander. Winning everywhere, he was not defeated by anyone. He was feared and respected both in the West and in the East.

Sources:

Bloodless L. Atlas of maps and diagrams on Russian military history. M., 1946.
Life of Alexander Nevsky. Pod text, translation and comm. V.I. Okhotnikova. Monuments of literature of Ancient Russia: XIII century. M., 1981.
Runners Yu. K. Alexander Nevsky. M., 2009.
Kargalov V. Mongolo-Tatar invasion of Russia. XIII century. 2015.
V. Kargalov. Commanders of the 10th — 16th centuries. M., 1989.
Karpov A.Yu. Grand Prince Alexander Nevsky. M., 2010.
Lipitsky S.V. Ice Battle. M., 1964.
Pashuto V. Alexander Nevsky. M., 1974.
Pashuto V. T. The heroic struggle of the Russian people for independence (XIII century). M., 1956.
The First Novgorod Chronicle // http://krotov.info/acts/12/pvl/novg.htm.
Sakharov A., Kargalov V. Commanders of Ancient Russia. M., 1986.
Shishov A. Russian princes. M., 1999.
Author:
Articles from this series:
Great Russian Prince Alexander Yaroslavich

“Whoever comes to us with a sword, will die by the sword.” That was where the Russian land stood and stands! ”
How Alexander Yaroslavich defeated the Swedish knights
How Alexander Yaroslavich defeated the German knights
The myth of the "traitor" Alexander Nevsky
124 comments
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  1. testerman
    testerman 10 February 2016 07: 07
    +7
    Thanks for the work to the author. Good informative article
    hi
    1. tomket
      tomket 10 February 2016 10: 09
      0
      Quote: testerman
      Thanks for the work to the author. Good informative article

      Learned a lot about super ethnic groups?))))
      1. testerman
        testerman 10 February 2016 13: 29
        +1
        This is a mockery question as I understand it from your writing style. Well, imagine yes, I learned a lot. This at school in history lessons did not take place in my time.
        So dear candidate - associate professor - professor of historical sciences, be proud of your knowledge and further
        1. Temples
          Temples 10 February 2016 13: 43
          +2
          It’s good that IT wasn’t taught at school.
          It would be nice to distinguish between literature and real history.
          We have good tales to write.
          But with the story ...
          Why did the Germans write history to us?
          Why did the Romanovs entrust newcomers to the Germans to write the "truth" about Russia?
          1. Mr. Pip
            Mr. Pip 10 February 2016 14: 22
            +3
            Quote: Temples
            Why did the Romanovs entrust newcomers to the Germans to write the "truth" about Russia?

            Who ever told you that?
            You want to say that the "Germans" did not use sources, including domestic ones ?!
            Were they illiterate ?! belay
            1. Rivares
              Rivares 10 February 2016 17: 59
              +1
              Quote: Mr. PIP
              Who ever told you that?
              You want to say that the "Germans" did not use sources, including domestic ones ?!
              Were they illiterate ?!

              Yes. Some of them had difficulty understanding Russian. Only foreigners agreed to write just a false "history" for the Romanovs.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Army soldier2
        Army soldier2 10 February 2016 14: 00
        0
        Thanks to Alexander Nevsky, a new page has opened in the history of Russia. Vladimirskaya and then Moscow Russia began to restore its positions step by step, which ultimately led to Moscow becoming the main center of the degraded Golden Horde and the heiress of the northern imperial tradition. By military victories on the western borders of the country and skillful politics in the east, Alexander Yaroslavich predetermined the fate of Russia for centuries to come.

        Alexander Yaroslavich showed heirs the main strategic line. At its core: 1) an uncompromising, uncompromising struggle with the West and flexible policies in the East; 2) strengthening the centralized grand princely power; 3) overcoming feudal fragmentation, the unity of Russia.

        I do not agree with any conclusion of the author.
        Yes, Alexander Nevsky was an outstanding commander. But, like other princes, he went to the Horde to complain about competitors and get a golden grand duke label.
        Of course, it's great to "pull" the collection of tribute on yourself: you bring the agreed amount to the Horde, but no one knows how much you actually collected and what you left for yourself.
        The most cunning was Ivan Kalita (hence the nickname), who agreed to collect tribute from his Russia. Profitable business.
  2. Volga Cossack
    Volga Cossack 10 February 2016 07: 28
    +4
    good article about the realities of that time. thank!
  3. parusnik
    parusnik 10 February 2016 07: 43
    +5
    There were no "Mongol-Tatars" in Russia. There were pagan Europeans and Christians, both branches of the superethnos of the Rus were direct heirs of the Scythian civilization (Great Scythia)... And why not Great Tartaria? smile ... If not for this .. And in general, in the article, the author correctly sets out the events of that era ..
    1. kare
      kare 10 February 2016 08: 56
      +7
      Quote: parusnik
      There were no "Mongol-Tatars" in Russia. There were pagan Europeans and Christians, both branches of the superethnos of the Rus were direct heirs of the Scythian civilization (Great Scythia)... And why not Great Tartaria? smile ... If not for this .. And in general, in the article, the author correctly sets out the events of that era ..


      Here is another fight on the Kulikovo field, with the same so-called Golden Horde, on a fragment of the icon of Sergius of Radonezh
      The view is the same on both sides, even on the standards the same saints
      The Russian language was written by Germans who did not even understand the Russian language

      http://www.runivers.ru/upload/iblock/eeb/Kulikovskay_ikona_fragment.jpg
      1. novel66
        novel66 10 February 2016 09: 33
        +2
        not exactly the same - mom had a company of Genoese crossbowmen and the Lithuanians hurried to them. What is the horde?
      2. Nikolay K
        Nikolay K 10 February 2016 10: 07
        +7
        And the Japanese, depicting the invasion of the Mongols, draw all the same way. . . quick-eyed. This property of painting of that time was depicted not in real artistic details, but in the way people used to portray. Moreover, there was a minimum in the Batu’s troops, except perhaps the ancestors of the current Kalmyks.
  4. Maegrom
    Maegrom 10 February 2016 07: 47
    0
    In fact, all the sources that I read converge on the successes of Daniil of Galitsky and Galitsky. The Principality died after his death.
  5. Belousov
    Belousov 10 February 2016 07: 52
    -1
    It is a pity that now we do not have worthy rulers of Alexander Nevsky, Peter I, Catherine II, Stalin. Now they think exclusively about their own bank account, and not about the country and people.
    1. semirek
      semirek 10 February 2016 08: 27
      +6
      To the author, plus undoubtedly for the article! I think that the centuries spent by Russia under the "golden horde" left an imprint on the world outlook of the Russian people - Russia, Russia later, having gained strength, began to move to the east, remembering the past suffering and humiliation that came primarily from the east. Nevsky is our Russian man who has done a lot to preserve Rus, and he has always been and remains revered by descendants.
      1. Darkness
        Darkness 10 February 2016 08: 39
        +1
        Under the "golden horde" princes and clergymen felt good. Ordinary people were not doing well.
        1. Mr. Pip
          Mr. Pip 10 February 2016 11: 11
          +4
          Quote: Darkness
          Ordinary people were not very well.

          Ordinary people did not know anything sensible about the horde, as they unfastened the princes and continued to unfasten hi
          1. Darkness
            Darkness 10 February 2016 11: 16
            -3
            Yah? Only tribute increased and priests urged not to resist the invaders
            1. Mr. Pip
              Mr. Pip 10 February 2016 12: 19
              +3
              Quote: Darkness
              Only tribute increased and priests urged not to resist the invaders

              Which invaders, and who "tribute" that collected in your opinion? And in numbers, how much and as a percentage of today's taxes, how much was all this? request
              1. Darkness
                Darkness 10 February 2016 12: 34
                +1
                Those. were the Horde not invaders?
                1. Mr. Pip
                  Mr. Pip 10 February 2016 13: 12
                  +1
                  Quote: Darkness
                  Those. were the Horde not invaders?

                  Of course there were, but the common people did not see them in their eyes, and in parallel he was on their "nationality", then there was no national identity as now - your initial conclusion was not correct hi
                  1. Darkness
                    Darkness 10 February 2016 13: 53
                    +5
                    Who didn’t see? Tatars? That you tell the inhabitants of Torzhok, for example.
                    1. Mr. Pip
                      Mr. Pip 10 February 2016 14: 25
                      +2
                      Quote: Darkness
                      That you tell the inhabitants of Torzhok, for example.

                      You tell me how many years Igo lasted and how long they lived, who saw the "torzhok"? fellow
                      In general, Torzhok was repeatedly destroyed during the internecine wars. He was especially badly damaged in 1372 from a raid led by the Tver prince Mikhail Alexandrovich.
              2. Wanderer 2008
                Wanderer 2008 10 February 2016 15: 51
                +2
                About 10%. But the clergy were not taxed and did not spread much rot because the Genghis Khan's covenants were strictly observed!
    2. Volzhanin
      Volzhanin 10 February 2016 09: 07
      0
      Just do not need to put the song with Katka on a par with the great warriors and patriots of Russia-Russia.
      The harm from the rule of these was many times more than good, if you only use facts. The rest is just stupid propaganda.
      1. Mr. Pip
        Mr. Pip 10 February 2016 11: 12
        +5
        Quote: Volzhanin
        The rest is just stupid propaganda.

        Are you talking about the fact that Nevsky is propaganda? Or will you say that he "thought about Russia" when Russia was not yet there ?! fellow
    3. Voice of the Mind
      Voice of the Mind 10 February 2016 13: 20
      +2
      Quote: Belousov
      It is a pity that now we have no worthy rulers of Alexander Nevsky

      What are you offering? Letting yourself occupy China for the next 300 years?
  6. Darkness
    Darkness 10 February 2016 08: 45
    -7
    Compared to the victories of Svyatoslav, Nevsky is a child.
    But PR will be "necessary" people
    1. Nikolay K
      Nikolay K 10 February 2016 10: 11
      10
      Nevsky is primarily a statesman, and not a dashing warrior Svyatoslav, who has been wobbling somewhere all his life. What is the use of Svyatoslav’s victories on the Danube? But Nevsky defended the country from the Western invasion and launched the process of collecting Russian lands.
      1. Darkness
        Darkness 10 February 2016 10: 17
        -3
        Do you understand the phrase "preemptive strike"?
        It was Svyatoslav who destroyed one of the most important enemies of Russia and frightened the second.
        Is it possible to compare the Khazar Kaganate with lousy Europeans?
        1. Rivares
          Rivares 10 February 2016 14: 37
          +2
          Quote: Darkness
          Compared to the victories of Svyatoslav, Nevsky is a child.

          Who about what and you all want to play off Russian princes with each other ...
          "Is it possible to compare the Khazar Kaganate with lousy Europeans?"
          Sure! And there and there, the Jews rule)
      2. baudolino
        baudolino 10 February 2016 14: 19
        -5
        This is how the statesman Alexander must be presented. And his military achievements, even in comparison with his contemporaries, are not particularly distinguished. Dovmont will have the same victories over his enemies.
  7. Mangel olys
    Mangel olys 10 February 2016 08: 58
    -3
    There were no "Mongol-Tatars" in Russia. There were pagan Caucasians and Christians, both branches of the superethnos of the Rus were direct heirs of the Scythian civilization (Great Scythia).

    Antonio Possevino wrote in the 16th century that "the Russians or Muscovites came from the mixing of the Scythians with the Tatars" (although he was still a Jesuit - a spy who hated Russians and Tatars), then the early medieval Arab chronicler Abul-Feda stated: "The Rus are a people of Turkish nationality" ... Those. Turkic. The statement of A. Samsonov appears to be at variance with the information from the above sources. Although it is already "warmer".
    1. novel66
      novel66 10 February 2016 09: 36
      +6
      Hi Seryshevsky! in my opinion neither one nor the other really knew who the Russians were
      1. Mr. Pip
        Mr. Pip 10 February 2016 11: 13
        +2
        Quote: novel xnumx
        in my opinion neither one nor the other really knew who the Russians were

        And now you already know who these Russians were in the 10th century? fellow
        1. novel66
          novel66 10 February 2016 11: 47
          +5
          Well, from the Mongols, in fact, they were different. but from the Polovtsy it is unlikely. And from the Tatars (and what kind of Tatars were then?) or Bulgars - I don't know. but I am not inclined to trust Marco Polo Carpini and other "researchers".
      2. Mangel olys
        Mangel olys 10 February 2016 13: 11
        0
        Hi Roman!
        1. novel66
          novel66 10 February 2016 21: 32
          +2
          Hello my friend! and what is your nickname's name - do you have to somehow contact?
  8. Pomeranian
    Pomeranian 10 February 2016 09: 08
    0
    "Here we see that the chronicler calls the Horde" filthy ", that is, pagans. There were no" Mongol-Tatars "in Russia. There were pagan Caucasians and Christians, both branches of the super ethnos of the Rus were direct heirs of the Scythian civilization (Great Scythia). Therefore, in the sources in the figures there are no differences between the "Mongols" and the Russians, they were representatives of the same race, their military organization (decimal system) and weapons were of the same type. " I read to this nonsense, put a minus. The author eats some strange mushrooms for breakfast. Like oyster mushrooms ??
    1. tomket
      tomket 10 February 2016 10: 11
      +3
      Quote: Pomoryanin
      The author eats some strange mushrooms for breakfast. Like oyster mushrooms ??

      Oyster mushrooms and muhamors from one superethnos (kingdom) of mushrooms, because the author makes no distinction for them before breakfast))))
      1. Pomeranian
        Pomeranian 10 February 2016 10: 17
        +1
        Quote: tomket
        Oyster mushrooms and muhamors from one superethnos (kingdom) of mushrooms, because the author makes no distinction for them before breakfast))))

        I agree, but separate speech turns and syntactic innovations suggest psilobicides ... wassat
    2. alebor
      alebor 10 February 2016 11: 15
      +8
      Really strange logic: if the Horde were called filthy, then there were no "Mongol-Tatars" in Russia! In my opinion, the second does not follow from the first. It is known that at the time of Batu, the Mongol-Tatars were pagans. Islam was adopted by the Tatar elite headed by Berke after the conquest of Rus. Islam spread gradually. Finally, Islam became the state religion in the Horde only under Khan Uzbek at the beginning of the XIV century.
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. Mr. Pip
      Mr. Pip 10 February 2016 11: 15
      +4
      Quote: Pomoryanin
      I read to this nonsense, put a minus.

      I immediately read the author and didn’t even read it - it’s time for the author to publish a novel about Nevsky; fellow
      1. Pomeranian
        Pomeranian 10 February 2016 17: 09
        +3
        Quote: Mr. PIP
        I immediately read the author and didn’t even read it - it’s time for the author to publish a novel about Nevsky;

        Well, I was kicked for Evpatiy Kolovrat with a sword-treasure, but at least I found a place for the last battle. And here .. Actually, the author moved here from the site of alternative history.
        1. tomket
          tomket 10 February 2016 23: 04
          0
          Quote: Pomoryanin
          I was kicked for Eupathia Kolovrat with a sword-kladzheny, but I at least found a place of the last battle.

          Where is it?
          1. Pomeranian
            Pomeranian 11 February 2016 10: 39
            0
            Quote: tomket
            Where is it?

            In the Vladimir region.
    5. activator
      activator 10 February 2016 11: 38
      +5
      Quote: Pomoryanin
      organization (decimal system) and weapons were of the same type. "I read up to this nonsense, put a minus. The author eats some strange mushrooms for breakfast. Like oyster mushrooms ??

      The version that the Golden Horde is a single state with a single people in which there was a civil war between Christians and pagans causes a persistent negative reaction for some reason. Although the facts are clear, the reign of the horde was considered a lesser evil than the reign of Catholics.
      1. Mr. Pip
        Mr. Pip 10 February 2016 12: 24
        +4
        Quote: activator
        Although the facts are clear, the reign of the horde was considered a lesser evil than the reign of the Catholics.

        It is believed that the horde was not against freedom of religion and local government.
        1. Darkness
          Darkness 10 February 2016 12: 35
          -3
          Exactly. And Catholics threatened priests.
          1. Mr. Pip
            Mr. Pip 10 February 2016 13: 13
            +3
            Quote: Darkness
            And Catholics threatened priests.

            And not only priests, but priests, what does it have to do with it? Or are you "pagan"? laughing
          2. Penzuck
            Penzuck 10 February 2016 13: 28
            +3
            Whose buttocks were Catholics threatening? wassat
            Quote: Darkness
            Exactly. And Catholics threatened priests.

            But seriously: You sell kvass. And there are 2 gangs, the first (small) wants you to give the store to them and still work for free + he sold not kvass, but beer, which is disgusting to you, the second leaves the store to you, but demands "loot for the roof" and is not against kvass and does not impose selling something to you ...
            The solution is obvious: To appease the second gang and break the first, and when you get protection, then punish the second (when it falls apart). bully
      2. Pomeranian
        Pomeranian 10 February 2016 17: 11
        +3
        Quote: activator
        Although the facts are clear, the reign of the horde was considered a lesser evil than the reign of the Catholics.

        No brainer, better than Catholics. The Tatars were limited to tribute and a set of auxiliary troops, practically without interfering in internal affairs. Western lovers of profit changed their way of life, redrawing everything in their own way, for themselves.
        Quote: activator
        The version that the Golden Horde is a single state with a single people in which a civil war was fought between Christians and pagans for some reason causes a persistent negative reaction.

        Any nonsense in me causes a persistent negative reaction.
  9. Riv
    Riv 10 February 2016 09: 49
    +2
    How to know now? We see Alexander Nevsky through the prism of history and judge by the results of his activities. The politician was wonderful, but politics is not done with clean hands. It is always a trade and what they traded there in the Horde - no one will know.

    For example, the abolition of forced recruitment into the Horde army is a riddle from riddles. Few people think about it, but in the same Horde it was possible to recruit at least ten tumens from the Turkmen golbyt. It is difficult to feed later, but to dial - without problems. Of the volunteers.

    And in the same way - in Russia. Alexander always recruited an army for himself. The Horde commander would have scored. Terry feudalism stood in the yard. As such, the Russian nation did not exist yet. There were Novgorodians, Muscovites, Kiev. They did not consider themselves to be such Russians and were always ready to rob a neighbor. In general, there were no problems with volunteers. Why then the FORCED set? A recruiting set is when soldiers serve in the regular army all their lives for a zhrachka and ten kopecks a year. Perhaps this is in the armies of that time? Hardly. Such soldiers would simply run away. Then look for them near Moscow and the Don, or even in the Crimea. Military affairs of that time had not yet grown to regular armies.

    So what did Alexander agree to cancel there?
  10. Penzuck
    Penzuck 10 February 2016 10: 13
    +3
    The author stirred up the blizzards ... a second time. As from 17 moments: "Stirlitz knew that a person remembers what was at the beginning and what was written at the end. wassat
    1. Particularly "happy", the super-ethnos of the Rus who speak Tatar ...
    And the constant mention of "Caucasians", as if someone were arguing that they were part of the Horde, another question, how many were there in%? The inhabitants of Central Asia are Caucasians, but no one denies that they have Mongoloid features (where did they come from, by the way, were ALL Caucasians?) And the Turks? Turkmens, Tajiks, Persians? - also SUPERETNOS Rusov-cattle breeders? In addition, hundreds of archaeological data indicate that the leaders of the "Mongol-Tatars" had pronounced Mongoloid features. And the fact that in the 13th century Bulgars, "Mordvinians", and other "white" people were forcibly included in the army of the "Mongols" does not say that they are RUSS.
    2. Playing with religion. Well, there was no "Holi Vara", no one brought the same Mordvins and Bulgars to Orthodoxy with fire and sword ... They came, robbed, left, the Middle Ages ... (simplified).
    3. With regard to the fact that the merchants de blocked the trade of the Rus in the Baltic with the Livonian Order: Maybe the Pope needed an order to rely on them to rule Europe? and rob rob rob rob, the most profitable business. But the order was gone, and the path was opened for merchants, there are so many goods from China to the Carpathians ... Kiev is under the Mongols, and Russia is actually a "free trade zone", a neutral buffer between the West and the Horde. Moreover, a safe waterway along the Volga.
    1. Riv
      Riv 10 February 2016 10: 53
      0
      Actually, the key word is: Türks. It was their culture and language that became unifying for Asia and Eastern Europe. And about the Russians - this is the author, he bent over from an excess of patriotism.
      1. Penzuck
        Penzuck 10 February 2016 13: 36
        +1
        Quote: Riv
        Generally
        -you to me?

        Quote: Riv
        Keyword: Türks.
        - no comments

        Quote: Riv
        It was their culture and language that became unifying for Asia and Eastern Europe.
        - united Lithuanians with Kurds? wassat Mordvinov with the Albanians? laughing

        Quote: Riv
        And about the Russians - this is the author, he bent over from an excess of patriotism.

        Actually, that’s what we are talking about. The author knows best what he wanted to say.
        1. Riv
          Riv 10 February 2016 16: 39
          +2
          And what have the Lithuanians got to do with it? In the time of Alexander, there was no such thing. Lithuanians as a people were formed around the 14th century. What does it have to do with the Lithuanians, or the Lithuanians, that is, the catholicized Western Belarusians. And the Baltic states were inhabited by different-colored tribes, which both Novgorodians and Poles simply called "zhmud". In the Polish language even now there is the word "greedy", meaning "burdensome, useless". Subsequently, this zhmud appropriated a glorious name for itself, but this should not interest us.

          And about the Turks - do not be lazy, google. Scythians in comparison with them are children of five years of age.
          1. V.ic
            V.ic 11 February 2016 07: 28
            +1
            Quote: Riv
            And about the Turks - do not be lazy, google. Scythians in comparison with them are children of five years of age.

            Really? Herodotus writes about the Scythians that on campaigns they reached Western Asia and were defeated by cunning, when they drank and cut them at the feast of the Scythian leaders. But the Scythian queen Tomiris cut off the head of Cyrus, the king of the Persians and put it in a bag of wine. Alexander Filippovich could not conquer the Scythians, as well as the Persians before him. Scythians defeated the Sarmatians.
            1. Riv
              Riv 11 February 2016 08: 31
              0
              That's just the Türks a little more ancient and Scythians and Herodotus. The third or second millennium BC. The ancient Greeks were not even planned at that time, and the Persians were not yet called Persians.
              Well, dig yourself in google. The topic is interesting and it is not taught in schools, because then Europe turns out to be a bunch of savages, not Asia.
              1. V.ic
                V.ic 11 February 2016 09: 38
                +1
                Quote: Riv
                That's just the Türks a little more ancient and Scythians and Herodotus.

                Now, if the Turks wrote about the Han people, then you would undoubtedly be right, but in life it turned out on the contrary. And now the facts in the studio: "At the end of the Yuan-wei dynasty (388 - 554), the Tukyu Ili-khan completely amazed the people of Tyel and conquered more than 50.000 yurts;" http://shatobalov.ru/2.php
                So - the fourth century N.E. But the widely publicized battle of Thermopylae occurred in 480 BC, this is me about the ancient Greeks. The difference of eight centuries of priority / seniority in age / I justified.
                Quote: Riv
                The third or second millennium BC.

                Now your move ... Arguments to the studio!
                1. Riv
                  Riv 11 February 2016 11: 28
                  0
                  I didn't understand something ... What did you just say about it? What other Yuan and Yi? What do yurts have to do with it? And, if it comes to that, why should the Turks write something about the Han dynasty? As if different eras ... I'm not talking about the fact that the Chinese do not have reliable ancient sources. From the word "absolutely".

                  And about the antiquity of the Turks ...

                  http://web.archive.org/web/20110815162022/http://kronk.narod.ru/library/klashtor
                  ny-savinov-1994.htm

                  Get and enlighten. Not ancient Turkic writing, it is quite readily written.
                  1. V.ic
                    V.ic 11 February 2016 18: 29
                    0
                    Quote: Riv
                    And about the antiquity of the Turks ...
                    http://web.archive.org/web/20110815162022/http://kronk.narod.ru/library/klashtor

                    ny-savinov-1994.htm
                    Wander and enlighten. Not ancient Turkic writing, it is quite readily written.

                    Thank you enlightened! Followed your link and found:
                    "D.G.Savinov
                    Ancient Turkic tribes in the mirror of archeology - 92-165
                    1. Historical and cultural processes in the north of Central Asia in the middle of I millennium BC - 93-95
                    Türkic-tugu and archaeological sites of Altai and Tuva mid I millennium BC - 95-101
                    Cultural Innovation Mid I millennium BC - 101-102
                    2. Altai-Tele Turks in the second half of the XNUMXst millennium AD - 103-107 "
                    Would you mind the obvious truth, call it a postulate repeat that: a version not supported by material evidence cannot be voiced as TRUE winked ? Look again at the dates of the certificates in the material you indicated, and point to the certificate you provided, it is BC, in other words "BC". Yours faithfully hi !
                    1. Riv
                      Riv 11 February 2016 22: 19
                      -1
                      You are inattentive. There is also a link to the preface.

                      "The ethnic history of the proto-Türkic substratum is marked by the synthesis of two population groups. One of them, formed to the west of the Volga, in the III-II millennium BC, during the centuries-old migrations in the eastern and southern directions, it became the predominant population of the Volga region and Kazakhstan, Altai and the valley of the Upper Yenisei. The ethnic history of these tribes is associated with the formation of Indo-European languages ​​and the Caucasian racial type. Another group of tribes, which appeared later in the steppes east of the Yenisei, was of Asian origin. Turkic languages ​​and the Mongoloid racial type prevailed among them. The history of the interaction and merger of both groups of the ancient population over the course of two to two and a half thousand years is the process during which ethnic consolidation was carried out and Turkic-speaking ethnic communities were formed. It was from among these closely related tribes in the second millennium AD. the modern Turkic peoples of Russia and adjacent territories stood out. "

                      The book itself, of course, was not opened ...
                      1. V.ic
                        V.ic 12 February 2016 07: 48
                        0
                        Quote: Riv
                        The book itself, of course, was not opened ..

                        You indicated the link, I followed it and described what I saw. Walk on it yourself and correct me if you find differences in the text.
                        Quote: Riv
                        One of them, having formed west of the Volga, in the III-II millennium BC,

                        This is just a reflection of the point of view of the author of the book, nothing more. Point to SERIOUS sources confirming your version of dating. The Altai version of the origin of the Turks looks more reliable than "west of the Volga" / !! what "accuracy" in determining the area !! The whole territory of Europe is suitable! / what .
                        Let's get back to the "Altai" version. The same preface (by the link you specified) contains the text:
                        "Ethnolinguistic situation in the east of Eurasia in I millennium AD - 9-11 "
                        This indicates the time of isolation of the Turkic ethnic group. yes
                      2. Penzuck
                        Penzuck 12 February 2016 07: 53
                        +1
                        Quote: Riv
                        in the III-II millennium BC
                        - BUT

                        Quote: Riv
                        the merger of both groups of the ancient population over two - two and a half thousand years
                        - B
                        Quote: Riv
                        The ethnic history of the proto-Turkic substrate
                        - G

                        Quote: Riv
                        l ethnic consolidation and formed Turkic-speaking ethnic communities.
                        - D
                        A + B + C + D = 2 of the ancient group proto(which means before) the Turkic population merged together over the course of 2-3 for thousands of years and eventually became Türks. fellow
                        In other words: 2-3 hours ago there was no cheese, but there was cottage cheese, which 2-3 hours cooked and actually became cheese. And therefore, cheese cannot be older than cottage cheese. bully
                        Quote: Riv
                        The book itself, of course, was not opened ...

                        I open the book - I see a fig (C).
                        PS: Truncated? tongue
                      3. Riv
                        Riv 12 February 2016 11: 12
                        -2
                        It's funny. That is, for three thousand years, the Pra-Türks "merged", during this time they went through the stages of Hyperoreans, Scythians and other Huns, and as a result ... And what is the result? As a result, I explain to a modern Turk that the book should be read, and not just a table of contents to look at (and even then inattentively). The reaction of the Turk is predictable.
                        So it goes...
                      4. V.ic
                        V.ic 12 February 2016 15: 16
                        +1
                        Quote: Riv
                        Turk reaction is predictable

                        Yours, however, too, on one line in a little-known book to draw far-reaching conclusions is not serious.
                        I propose to think (to you): Cretan-Mycenaean culture: "The Minoan culture dates back to the 27th century BC." http://www.barabass.ru/articles/p2_articleid/519
                        Here is a time comparable to your source indicated "in the III-II millennium BC, in the course of centuries of migrations." There were cities (did you hear the legend of the Minotaur?) And the remains of material culture. Their language was not Greek. Where is your material and graphic evidence of the "Turks" and in addition "west of the Volga"? Why are you so sure that these distant ancestors were not yet Turkic speaking the dialects of the TURKISH language?
                      5. Riv
                        Riv 12 February 2016 17: 10
                        0
                        Oh yeah! The legend of the Minotaur (by the way, not only about him, there was still someone there) is a reliable historical source, on the basis of which any Turk will conclude that there are cities in Crete. But he will not read books anyway. This is below his dignity.

                        But what does the picture of the Gorgon sisters have to do with it?
                      6. V.ic
                        V.ic 12 February 2016 19: 00
                        +1
                        Quote: Riv
                        But what does the picture of the Gorgon sisters have to do with it?

                        Interested in it? Glad for you, sincerely good , for this fact was introduced into circulation when considering certain segments of human history. Now "take revenge" on me as far as possible and submit for consideration repeat anything Turkic corresponding period, here we are both happy!
                      7. Riv
                        Riv 12 February 2016 19: 21
                        0
                        Are you banned in Google? "Deer Stone." The second half of the XNUMXst millennium BC, but they are also dated by the third millennium.

                        In order not to be unfounded: http://www.kulturologia.ru/blogs/030514/20453/
                      8. Riv
                        Riv 12 February 2016 19: 22
                        -2
                        Turkic headstone, beginning of I millennium BC
                      9. V.ic
                        V.ic 12 February 2016 21: 43
                        0
                        Quote: Riv
                        "Deer Stone." The second half of I thousand to BC, but they are also dated by the third millennium.

                        Quote: Riv
                        Turkic headstone, beginning of I millennium BC n.a.

                        Two questions will be for you, dear:
                        1. The so-called "animal style" is the monopoly of the Turks, when the Scythians sighed plaintively aside?
                        2. Typo in your first and second examples, is it according to Freud?
                        3. In conclusion of this adventure, the third question for you: from the consideration of the beautiful paintings of the Scythian animal style, why should an adequate viewer have a firm / hard-headed! / Opinion that these Türks portrayed? A highly artistic work was carved as a warning to posterity and, at the moment of hit with a bat on the fingers, they exclaimed in Turkic: oh, they beat me, blatantly!
                      10. Riv
                        Riv 13 February 2016 04: 47
                        0
                        Sadly, you don’t know a damn thing about the history of your native country. Scythians are a completely different historical period and a different territory: the Black Sea, Don, Danube. And deer stones are Mongolia. Gravestones - Altai.

                        For this discussion with you I think is pointless.
                      11. V.ic
                        V.ic 13 February 2016 09: 42
                        0
                        Quote: Riv
                        Sadly, you don’t know a damn thing about the history of your native country.

                        A very bold statement ... Resentment gnaws obviously?
                        Quote: Riv
                        Scythians are a completely different historical period and a different territory: the Black Sea, Don, Danube. And deer stones are Mongolia. Gravestones - Altai.

                        As for the supposedly "other historical period" I have thrown several links. If you look with at least one eye, you may change your "bump" of vision. Here, if you please:
                        The ancient population of Gorny Altai and Tuva in Scythian-Sakian times is known from archaeological sites, the most striking of which are the mounds in the Pazyryk valley. http://kronk.spb.ru/library/1976-l-dspv-2-1.htm
                        All mounds are opened. Buried in them leaders of the Scythian tribesliving in the steppes of Altai in V-II centuries BC e. http://rus-globus.ru/altaj/926-pazyrykskie-kurgany
                        Based on the monuments of the VI — II centuries. BC e. scientists highlighted the Pazyryk archaeological culture http://www.altaitur.com/sights/pazirikskie-kurgani.html
                        Lit .: Rudenko S.I., Gorno-Altai finds and Scythians, M. - L., 1952; him, Culture of the population of Gorny Altai in Scythian time, M. — L., 1953; him, the culture of the population of Central Altai in Scythian time, M. — L., 1960; http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/bse/117911/Pazyryk
                        Quote: Riv
                        For this discussion with you, I think it makes no sense

                        I dare not insist, but pay attention to the selected font. Thanks for the discussion ...
  • tomket
    tomket 10 February 2016 10: 18
    +5
    I would like to understand the logic of such authors who are ready to fraternize with the Tatars, Mongols, or Mongols and Tatars, spitting on the graves of all those Russians who were killed in bloody battles with a horde. I would like to understand what did not please Samson Ryazan, Pereyaslavts, Suzdal, Vladimirov? Why does he spit on the graves of the inhabitants of Kozelsk? Did not survive the siege? Well, excuse me, we fought back as best we could, and we stood for such Samsonovs to death. They paid with their lives so that now such as the author put them on a par with the Tatars of the Horde. Author, do you want to fraternize with the Wehrmacht? And what, a single super ethnic group, a halogen group, artifacts, Aryans.
    1. Darkness
      Darkness 10 February 2016 10: 58
      0
      And now it is not tolerant to consider the Tatar-Mongols enemies. After all, if you consider them enemies, it turns out that the "saint" Nevsky has betrayed his country.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 10 February 2016 11: 26
        +5
        Quote: Darkness
        And now it’s not tolerant to consider Tataromongol enemies.

        I know the Mongol, they are not our enemies! And during the second world war they helped us.
        I know the Tatars, they are not enemies either, they live in Kazan.
        Are you few enemies or are you trying to foment ethnic hatred?
        1. Darkness
          Darkness 10 February 2016 11: 55
          -4
          Yes, the Germans are not our enemies either.
          And just recently - they wanted to erase us from the face of the planet. Don’t write a signature. I wrote about the Tatar-Mongol
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 10 February 2016 12: 22
            0
            Quote: Darkness
            e. I wrote about the Tatar-Mongol

            Yeah, but in the present tense. Where do they live?
            1. Darkness
              Darkness 10 February 2016 12: 32
              0
              I did not write about Tataromongol in the present tense. This time.
              I wrote that it’s now customary not to consider them enemies of Russia.
              You do not always understand what is written?
              1. Penzuck
                Penzuck 10 February 2016 13: 57
                0
                Quote: Darkness
                I did not write about the Tatar-Mongol in the present tense. This is the time.
                I wrote that it’s now customary not to consider them enemies of Russia.
                You do not always understand what is written?

                We will understand?
                Quote: Darkness
                And now it is not tolerant to consider the Tatar-Mongols enemies. After all, if you consider them enemies, it turns out that the "saint" Nevsky has betrayed his country.

                1. Now consider t-m enemies - (not tolerant) intolerable.
                To consider that th-m friends - (tolerant) tolerant?
                tolerant that the capital of Russia Vladimir was burned?
                2. It is not tolerable that the Ruler of Russia betrayed Russia. However, was Russia united, so that its single ruler betrayed her? Not.
                A. Nevsky monarch? - no, he was elected by the veche of Novgorod - Traders and Peasants for trial and command of the army - That's it.
                Everything else is the jurisdiction of the Posadnik. Those. Novgorod decided to pay off from tm - and sent A. Nevsky to them. It turns out that the entire independent and non-ruined northwest of Russia betrayed the rest of Russia ... And if you take into account that the rest of Russia has practically disappeared, then there was nothing to betray ... it was necessary to save what was left.
                Pay taxes - live peacefully ...
            2. Voice of the Mind
              Voice of the Mind 10 February 2016 13: 39
              0
              They live there. This "riddle" was solved a long time ago.
              The Chinese called the Mongols 鞑靼 the Tatars. By the name of one of the tribes. The Chinese assimilated the Mongols into the Yuan Empire. The assimilated Mongols themselves began to call themselves "Tatars". And since communications among the Mongols were maintained, they became Mongol-Tatars.
              1. Villon
                Villon 10 February 2016 17: 16
                +1
                Are there documents where they call themselves "Mongol-Tatars"?
        2. venaya
          venaya 10 February 2016 13: 11
          +2
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          I know the Mongol, they are not our enemies! And during the second world war they helped us.
          I know the Tatars, they are not enemies either, they live in Kazan.

          Considering that such a country as Mongolia appeared in 1905, I am sure that the inhabitants of this newly formed country could also have heard something about some Mongols. Just a question: in view of the fact that such a word as "Mongol" in the languages ​​of the tribes inhabiting this country has never had such or a similar word, this word is foreign in their days. By the way, not a single tribe, and there are two large tribes not very friendly with each other, have never called themselves such a word, this word is foreign for them. By the way, the Tatars also live in Crimea, but they have no family ties with the Volga region, in general, a different ethnic group.
          1. Mr. Pip
            Mr. Pip 10 February 2016 13: 42
            0
            Quote: venaya
            Considering that such a country appeared in Mongolia in 1905

            Meanwhile, in 2011, Mongolia celebrated the 2220th anniversary of the Mongolian statehood - and everyone there knows that Russia as a country appeared NOT in 1991, but "for some reason" earlier - are you stupider than the Mongols ?! fellow
            Quote: venaya
            Just a question: in view of the fact that there was never such a word as "Mongol" in the languages ​​of the tribes inhabiting this country

            Well, yes, but the ulus Hamag Mongol in the 12th century is probably also a "European term" ?! laughing
            1. venaya
              venaya 10 February 2016 14: 04
              -2
              Quote: Mr. PIP
              in 2011, Mongolia celebrated the 2220th anniversary of the Mongolian statehood ... ulus Hamag Mongol in the 12th century is probably also a "European term" ?! laughing

              Let's start with the facts at our disposal: The Mongols themselves learned about the past of their statehood only in 1942, it was already written about it even here, on this website, you probably missed it. As for the term "Mongol", there really is such a version that this word is nothing more than a distortion of the word from the Greek language "Mogul", even the expression "Great Mogul" is sometimes used, just what it means - figure it out for yourself. The letter "n" in this word appeared quite recently, and the whole theory about "Totar-Mongol yoke"was first described by the French freemason Karamzin, not earlier, they have already written about this here too. Read the site carefully, the topic is not new.
              1. Mr. Pip
                Mr. Pip 10 February 2016 14: 33
                0
                Quote: venaya
                Let's start with the facts at our disposal:

                Yeah, archaeological sites Tiled grave culture to help you! fellow
                At the same time, you can ask from whom the VKT was built fellow
                1. Rivares
                  Rivares 10 February 2016 15: 57
                  0
                  Quote: Mr. PIP
                  At the same time, you can ask from whom the VKT was built

                  Nothing that the VKT defenses in the direction of China looks ???
                  1. Penzuck
                    Penzuck 12 February 2016 08: 15
                    0
                    Quote: Rivares
                    Nothing that the VKT defenses in the direction of China looks ???

                    But nothing that CGT is not one continuous thread, but in several rows, and what do you see only what is left of it (or left (!))? And the fact that it was built (and demolished) several times? (Or even local ones were dismantled into bricks for sheds)
                    Are the Chinese "chroniclers" lying? And besides, China has not always been a united country.
                    And then, do you really think that the Chinese bones of Chinese peasants (who died during construction) were walled up by more "progressive" "white" "European Scythians" of Great Tartary?
                2. venaya
                  venaya 10 February 2016 16: 32
                  -3
                  Mr. Pip"from whom the CGT was built"- An interesting question, let's start with etymology: The words" China "and" Great Wall of China "themselves have Russian-speaking roots... For example: currently on the Swedish map, China is indicated as "China", in German it is already read as" China ", and on the British Isles already as" China ", hence the word" tea ". Only those who had the appropriate technology and sufficient experience could build such a cyclopean structure. For example, in Moscow until now Since then there is the name "China City", once surrounded by the "Moscow Chinese Wall." Even the name of the metro station "Simonovsky Val" speaks in the name of the existence of such a structure. By the way, the concept of the Great Wall of China actually includes four of its branches, the original in time to be not far from Beijing, more recent ones reach the territory of already modern Mongolia.By the way, the Pskov Kremlin is very similar to the buildings of the Aerospace Forces, and not far from Kiev there is a settlement called China.Considering that China is still an empire and people of different nationalities, even ethnic groups, including the haplogroup R1a1 - usually referring to the purest and most ancient Rus, then this question becomes more interesting.
                  1. Bersaglieri
                    Bersaglieri 10 February 2016 19: 29
                    0
                    If desired and imagination, all toponyms from any language can be derived :)
                    1. venaya
                      venaya 11 February 2016 04: 04
                      0
                      Bersaglieri: "If desired and imagination, all toponyms from any language can be derived"- Try it, it is better only if you wish and without any imagination, how Academician AS Shishkov managed to derive all languages ​​from Russian. I hope that in this case the issue of awarding you an academic title will be considered, torment.
                    2. Villon
                      Villon 11 February 2016 22: 48
                      +2
                      Quote: Bersaglieri
                      If desired and imagination, all toponyms from any language can be derived :)

                      There are fantasies that lead to a knowledge of the truth, and there are fantasies that do not lead to a knowledge of the truth. the task of science is to distinguish the former from the latter.
                  2. Glot
                    Glot 10 February 2016 21: 05
                    -2
                    An interesting question, let's start with the etymology: The words "China" and "Great Wall of China" themselves have Russian-language roots.


                    Of course, if you pronounce them in Russian.
                    And if in English - the Great Wall is teahouse, or something like that. Not strong.
                    And in German?
                    And if in Chinese, understand? laughing

                    and on the British Isles it is already like "China", hence the word "tea".


                    Bu-ha-ha, entimologist, in English tea - TI. laughing

                    For example, in Moscow, the name "China City" still exists, once surrounded by the "Moscow Chinese Wall".


                    The name China City is in no way connected with China, much less with the Great Wall of China.
                    There are five or six versions, and not one of them is connected with China.
                    Oh, would you read BOOKS or something ...

                    Even the name of the metro station "Simonovsky Val" speaks in the name of the existence of such a structure once.


                    Oh, where is such a station in Moscow?
                    The entymologist, at least in Yandex they have hammered the "Moscow metro scheme", you see, they would not please with another stupidity. laughing
                    Yes, there were enough shafts. Valov, outposts and what? What does China have to do with it?

                    By the way, the Pskov Kremlin is very similar to the structure of the VKS, and not far from Kiev there are settlements called China.


                    Yes, it’s like VKSs built Gaster from Pskov. laughing
                    And in America there is a city - Moscow. Oh, here is the "Russian trace". Another. laughing

                    Eh, Venua ... Well, then you again have written. laughing
                    1. Villon
                      Villon 10 February 2016 23: 36
                      0
                      Quote: Glot
                      The name China City is in no way connected with China, much less with the Great Wall of China.
                      There are five or six versions, and not one of them is connected with China.

                      So would please us at least one of them.
                    2. Villon
                      Villon 11 February 2016 00: 24
                      0
                      Quote: Glot
                      An interesting question, let's start with the etymology: The words "China" and "Great Wall of China" themselves have Russian-language roots.


                      Of course, if you pronounce them in Russian.
                      And if in English - Grit Val Chayna

                      You yourself answered your question. Note the second word in what you wrote: "Great Wall of China". This is the Russian word "Val"
                      1. tomket
                        tomket 11 February 2016 00: 49
                        0
                        Quote: Villon
                        what did you write: "Grit Val Chyna"

                        you are not embarrassed that you are trying to pass the CHINESE wall behind the RUSSIAN building, substantiating your assumption with an inscription in ENGLISH? ))))))))) Which is even pronounced differently from the Russian VAL))))))))))))))))
                      2. venaya
                        venaya 11 February 2016 03: 11
                        0
                        Quote: tomket
                        you are not embarrassed that you are trying to pass the CHINESE wall behind a RUSSIAN building, substantiating your assumption with an inscription in ENGLISH? Which is not even pronounced like the Russian VAL

                        Let's start with the pronunciation: Do you really think that in all dialects of the English language, this word is pronounced only as you were taught. Even in my personal practice of communicating with a native speaker from the central states, the pronunciation of this word was the same as in Russian. In general, English has a number of dialects that significantly exceeds the number of dialects of the modern Russian language.
                        As for the Chinese wall: so in addition to the 4 walls built at different times in China, there are another 300 huge cyclopoic structures in the form of pyramids. In Egypt, there are only 8 of them and they are 2,5 times lower than the Chinese, while the Chinese do not even claim authorship of their construction, on the contrary, in every possible way hide their presence from the eyes of foreigners or plant them with trees, and sometimes simply destroy them. They would build it themselves, so they would not behave. If this topic is interesting, then I can continue it.
                      3. Glot
                        Glot 11 February 2016 06: 01
                        0
                        in China there are another 300 huge cyclopoic structures in the form of pyramids. In Egypt there are only 8 and they are 2,5 times lower than the Chinese,


                        Oh, how ... 300 pieces, and even more of Egypt and more than twice as many ...
                        Maybe you are to us now, here, provide documentary evidence of these words? Photo at least. No, not all three hundred. A couple of dozens.
                        BUT ?
                      4. Villon
                        Villon 11 February 2016 11: 38
                        0
                        Quote: Glot
                        in China there are another 300 huge cyclopoic structures in the form of pyramids. In Egypt there are only 8 and they are 2,5 times lower than the Chinese,


                        Oh, how ... 300 pieces, and even more of Egypt and more than twice as many ...
                        Maybe you are to us now, here, provide documentary evidence of these words? Photo at least. No, not all three hundred. A couple of dozens.
                        BUT ?

                        Dear Glot, from the huge material about the Chinese pyramids from the Internet, for a start I would like to offer you this site with photos:
                        http://psytribe.org/index.php?topic=14218.0
                      5. Glot
                        Glot 11 February 2016 12: 30
                        0
                        Dear Glot, from the huge material about the Chinese pyramids from the Internet, for a start I would like to offer you this site with photos:
                        http://psytribe.org/index.php?topic=14218.0


                        Thank you, dear, but sites of a psychedelic and ufological orientation, as an evidence base, are not personally accepted by me.
                        Give links to serious publications, with scientific evidence and research, with good photos and videos (as we say in Egypt or the pyramids of America), then you can talk about anything.
                        In the meantime ... laughing laughing laughing Yes Yes exactly.
                      6. Villon
                        Villon 11 February 2016 15: 34
                        0
                        Quote: Glot
                        Maybe you are to us now, here, provide documentary evidence of these words? Photo at least. No, not all three hundred. A couple of dozens.

                        You needed "at least a photo". I sent you a photo. However, you were not satisfied. You have dramatically increased the level of your requirements.

                        Quote: Glot
                        Give links to serious publications, with scientific evidence and research, with good photos and videos (as we say in Egypt or the pyramids of America), then you can talk about anything.
                        In the meantime ...

                        I would like to know more precisely the difference between just a "photo" and a "good photo". And if I send you a "good photo", you will not demand a "very good photo", but simply reject a "good photo"? Remember the tale of the goldfish. At first she needed a trough, then she got sick of it, and she needed a hut, as soon as she received a hut, she immediately became disgusted with a merchant's house, after receiving a merchant's house and the title of merchant, all this again became disgusting to her and she needed to be a queen, then she wanted to be the mistress of the sea, and so that the goldfish herself was at her errand. Will the tale repeat itself?

                        All the same, I want to hope for the best. In your new request, you agreed to the "videos". Here is some of the video material:

                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1l9xS5khAbc
                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwJbtSM_hOY
                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=igCMkCkQvGc
                      7. Glot
                        Glot 11 February 2016 16: 23
                        0
                        All the same, I want to hope for the best. In your new request, you agreed to the "videos". Here is some of the video material:


                        No, my friend, no and no.
                        These videos, with "sedition" and other things, with familiar faces laughing miraculous and the like ... This is not proof.
                        And I didn't see the pyramids there either. So, sometimes something similar. But there are terraced plantings, which means that the peas were cultivated for them, plus the nature there may not be such kinky slides. And what about the "loopholes to the south" began to flutter, and I stopped looking.
                        Here yesterday, or a little earlier, your comrade - Veles, also decided to show off a video from "sedition". The essence of the whole film was revealed instantly. They started talking about Caesar, Gai Yulia, but adding one more to his name. About which he himself did not know for sure. laughing So they also aggravated all this with a video sequence, where they showed not Guy at all, but ... Octavian Augustus. laughing
                        Either the filmmakers concocted this fool, or counted on fools, or both. But shorter than rzhaka complete left. laughing
                        So my friend, save this stuff for RENTV, TV3 or the Hollywood X Files, for Mulder and Scully. laughing
                        And to me, if you want, provide scientific research. It is SCIENTIFIC, ACADEMIC if you want. I believe this. Like crap filmenets designed for suckers - NO.
                        For sim, that's it. smile
                      8. Villon
                        Villon 12 February 2016 19: 49
                        +1
                        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hgtj4rkF73o

                        In this video, the pyramid mountains are better visible. And there is no nonsense in it. As for the "scientific, academic" research, those are not conducted, neither those that refute the hypothesis of the Chinese pyramids, nor those that support it. As far as I understand, there is almost complete silence in science regarding the Chinese pyramids, perhaps because the study of such a hypothesis could lead to a revision of the fundamental concepts of history. And you yourself can understand how this can be unpleasant and inappropriate for academicians, whose scientific career is based on these fundamental concepts. The Chinese, on the other hand, do not let anyone near them with a shovel or even an inclination to dig. This is the problem. And when you demand scientific, and even academic materials, you probably realize that you are demanding something that does not exist yet. Why do you require? However, there are Chinese pyramids. They can be seen from above. Which is shown in the film. If you view it at least diagonally, you will see both pictures of pyramids-mountains and pictures from above.
                3. The comment was deleted.
          2. Glot
            Glot 11 February 2016 05: 59
            0
            you are not embarrassed that you are trying to pass the CHINESE wall behind the RUSSIAN building, substantiating your assumption with an inscription in ENGLISH? ))))))))) Which is even pronounced differently from the Russian VAL))))))))))))))))


            No, nothing bothers them. Only somehow attracted to their reasoning. laughing
            This Villon just agreed to the point that he divided the name of Yuri and Jura into two different ones. Type Yuri is one thing, and Jura is a completely different name. laughing So simple for its version suited more.
            So what already there, will grind everything and everyone. laughing
          3. Villon
            Villon 11 February 2016 11: 22
            0
            Quote: Glot
            This Villon just agreed to the point that he divided the name of Yuri and Jura into two different ones. Type Yuri is one thing, and Jura is a completely different name. laughing So simple for its version suited more.

            Of course, I apologize, but, in my opinion, outright fraud has begun. Where is it I "divided the name Yuri and Yura into two different ones. Like Yuri is one thing, but Yura is already a completely different name"? On the contrary, I have always taken them in unity and mentioned them in no other way. like "Yura-Yuri". But you, dear Glot, always want to see what you want to see. And so that it goes unnoticed, you laugh so much. You can always say: "It was a joke."
          4. Glot
            Glot 11 February 2016 12: 35
            0
            Of course, I apologize, but, in my opinion, outright fraud has begun. Where did I "divide the name Yuri and Yura into two different ones. Like Yuri is one thing, and Yura is already a completely different name"? On the contrary, I have always taken them together and mentioned them in no other way. like "Yura-Yuri".


            Oh, I certainly apologize no less, but here's a certain VillonOn February 9, in the topic of the "Roots of the European Titular System", he uttered the following phrase in a dispute:
            And who said that Yura is a diminutive of Yuri?

            No, do not remember?
            And this phrase can only be interpreted so that a certain Villon believes that these are two different names.
            Although, the maneuver in order to get out as usual, I left you. I did not press on further.
            You can get out now. laughing
          5. Villon
            Villon 11 February 2016 13: 19
            0
            Quote: Glot
            Of course, I apologize, but, in my opinion, outright fraud has begun. Where did I "divide the name Yuri and Yura into two different ones. Like Yuri is one thing, and Yura is already a completely different name"? On the contrary, I have always taken them together and mentioned them in no other way. like "Yura-Yuri".


            Oh, I certainly apologize no less, but here's a certain VillonOn February 9, in the topic of the "Roots of the European Titular System", he uttered the following phrase in a dispute:
            And who said that Yura is a diminutive of Yuri?

            No, do not remember?
            And this phrase can only be interpreted so that a certain Villon believes that these are two different names.

            Are you sure that the phrase "And who said that Yura is a diminutive of Yuri?" can be interpreted only in one sense, namely, that Yura and Yuri are two different names? I think that even you, after a moment's reflection, admit that there are several ways to interpret this phrase. Here's another interpretation for you:
            There are more reasons to believe that the name "Yuri" is derived from the name "Yura".

            Quote: Glot
            Although, the maneuver in order to get out as usual, I left you. I did not press on further.
            You can get out now. laughing


            This is not a maneuver that you leave to me so that, as you say, I can "get out". This is the maneuver that you use not to tell what happened next.
          6. Glot
            Glot 11 February 2016 13: 36
            0
            There are more reasons to believe that the name "Yuri" is derived from the name "Yura".


            That is, the full name of YURA and from it, the diminutive - YURI?
            This is where it can in Nicaragua? laughing
          7. Villon
            Villon 11 February 2016 15: 02
            0
            Quote: Glot
            There are more reasons to believe that the name "Yuri" is derived from the name "Yura".


            That is, the full name of YURA and from it, the diminutive - YURI?


            No, of course not a diminutive. How can Yuri be a diminutive of Yura? In general, the term "diminutive" does not refer to the historical formation of names, but simply indicates the position of the name in accordance with the norms of the modern language. In Russian, there are other ways of forming names, besides truncating the endings, for example, adding the ending "yy".

            Quote: Wikipedia
            Many popular forms of names were formed with the help of suffixes -i and -ey, typical for male names (in unstressed position - as a rule -th: Vitaliy; in shock - -th: Andrei). Suffixes were added to names that did not have them in their original form: Mares → Maresy; Hariton → Chariton; Clement → Clementius; Ephraim → Ephraim; Taras → Tarasiy.


            https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A0%D1
            %83%D1%81%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%BE%D0%B5_%D0%B
            B%D0%B8%D1%87%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B5_%D0%B8%
            D0% BC% D1% 8F
          8. Glot
            Glot 11 February 2016 15: 25
            0
            No, of course not a diminutive. How can Yuri be a diminutive of Yura?


            Well, thank God.
            But the trouble, the vast majority of information related to the origin of the name Yuri (namely Yuri, and from him - Yura) sounds like:

            "The origin of the name Yuri.
            This is a Slavic form that comes from the ancient Greek name George (in the people of Yegor, in colloquial form - Yegoriy). In the literal translation means "farmer"; comes from the words "those" (earth) and "ergoi" (work). It is interesting that in different countries the origin of this name varies significantly: in France - Georges, from Polish - Jerzy, in Czech - Irgy.
            The name is Yuri in the church. Since in the list of names according to the Orthodox name list there is the name Yuri, then according to the church name it remains so. "

            Actually, no Jura from RA = the Sun is mentioned anywhere. With slight discrepancies, deviations, this is only the case.
            And it seems to me that those who studied the topic associated with names knew what they were saying.
            And everywhere, from the first appearance of this name, YURI is mentioned.
            So that ... request
          9. The comment was deleted.
      2. The comment was deleted.
  • Villon
    Villon 11 February 2016 11: 46
    0
    Quote: Glot
    This Villon just agreed to the point that he divided the name of Yuri and Jura into two different ones.

    It’s just curious how the “name Yuri and Yura” can be divided into “two different” ones. After all, you yourself divide them when you write "Yura and Yuri". I understand that it is not always correct to take a phrase out of context and subject it to analysis. However, this resembles a problem with logic.
  • Villon
    Villon 11 February 2016 11: 07
    0
    Quote: tomket
    you are not embarrassed that you are trying to pass the CHINESE wall behind the RUSSIAN building, substantiating your assumption with an inscription in ENGLISH? ))))))))) Which is even pronounced differently from the Russian VAL))))))))))))))))

    I have not tried to substantiate any assumption with any inscription. If anyone justified it, it is a respected Glot. He brought up the English translation of the name of the Chinese wall in the hope that the English translation will not have Russian roots. And there is not only a Russian root, but also a Russian word. I just drew the esteemed Glot's attention to this fact.
  • Villon
    Villon 11 February 2016 12: 23
    0
    Quote: tomket
    Quote: Villon
    what did you write: "Grit Val Chyna"

    you are not embarrassed that you are trying to pass the CHINESE wall behind the RUSSIAN building, substantiating your assumption with an inscription in ENGLISH? ))))))))) Which is even pronounced differently from the Russian VAL))))))))))))))))

    Regarding the pronunciation of the Russian and English words of the words "shaft" and "wall", it should be said that if we pronounce the sound "in" in the Russian word "shaft", as a clear dento-labial, that is, formed from the connection and opening of the upper teeth and the lower lips, then we pronounce the English sound "V", but if we pronounce the sound "in" as labial-labial, that is, formed by closing and opening the upper and lower lips, then we pronounce the typical English sound "W". So in 50% of the pronunciation of the word "wall" we pronounce the English "wall".
  • Glot
    Glot 11 February 2016 12: 41
    0
    Regarding the pronunciation of the Russian and English words of the words "shaft" and "wall", it should be said that if we pronounce the sound "in" in the Russian word "shaft", as a clear dento-labial, that is, formed from the connection and opening of the upper teeth and the lower lips, then we pronounce the English sound "V", but if we pronounce the sound "in" as labial-labial, that is, formed by closing and opening the upper and lower lips, then we pronounce the typical English sound "W". So in 50% of the pronunciation of the word "wall" we pronounce the English "wall".


    In Russian, VAL and WALL are not the same thing.
    And you can now even until tomorrow morning grind the "closing or opening of the upper and lower lips" but there is a word - VAL and there is a word - WALL. We have it in Russian. And they are different, both in pronunciation and understanding. For us - Russians.
    Therefore, do not try to catch the ears and pronunciation of the word WALL in English to Russian.
    Everything here is clear and obvious without you. laughing
  • Villon
    Villon 11 February 2016 16: 09
    +1
    Quote: Glot
    there is a word - SHAFT and there is a word - WALL. We have in Russian. And they are different, both in pronunciation and in understanding.

    I agree that the pronunciation of the word "shaft" and "wall" are different. But they are not different in understanding. In any case, in the sense that you give to the word "different".

    Take the functional aspect of the word "wall". If you deduce the word "wall" from the word "become", then this is what "becomes", what becomes between the outer world and the inner world, between the street and the house, the castle and what is outside, the city and the province, maybe , one country and another.

    If we take not the functional, but the aspect of constructing the wall, then here we will see a direct connection between the word "wall" and the words of the same root "shaft", "to bring down", "to fall". When building a wall, some layers are piled on top of others, as when building a rampart the earth is piled. Indeed, any shaft that performs a fencing function can be called a wall.

    There is another aspect, so to speak, gravitational or behavioral. A wall is something that falls vertically, "falls" down.

    By the way, material for thought, in the English language, there is one more word that has the same root with the Russian words "shaft", "fall". This word "fall" means to fall.
  • Glot
    Glot 11 February 2016 16: 52
    0
    Your perseverance in a compartment with resourcefulness amazes. But not me. laughing
    So say:

    Take the functional aspect of the word "wall". If you deduce the word "wall" from the word "become", then this is what "becomes", what becomes between the outer world and the inner world, between the street and the house, the castle and what is outside, the city and the province, maybe , one country and another.


    And why does the word wall get out of becoming? The wall is being erected, built, put up. Well, even if it becomes, so what?
    It encloses, separates, closes and so on.
    So what ?

    Next:

    If we take not the functional, but the aspect of constructing the wall, then here we will see a direct connection between the word "wall" and the words of the same root "shaft", "to bring down", "to fall". When building a wall, some layers are piled on top of others, as when building a rampart the earth is piled. Indeed, any shaft that performs a fencing function can be called a wall.


    What layers are piling up?
    If the wall is brick or stone, then one word is superimposed on another. And if a wooden palisade is acceptable? What is "piling up" there?

    Next:
    There is another aspect, so to speak, gravitational or behavioral. A wall is something that falls vertically, "falls" down.


    The wall is a kind of vertical, and nothing "falls down" there.

    In general, and here already bored bast.
    Twist, twist all one - past.
  • Villon
    Villon 12 February 2016 19: 27
    0
    Quote: Glot
    What layers are piling up?
    If the wall is brick or stone, then one word is superimposed on another. And if a wooden palisade is acceptable? What is "piling up" there?


    Of course, the shaft and the wall may differ in the way of construction. The earth falls on the shaft, bricks or stones are placed on the wall. Nevertheless, I hope that you will not go so far as to deny the semantic affinity of the words “wall” and “wall”. These are synonyms. They are different, but they perform one function - they protect something, they serve as protection. And the actual coincidence of the English word “wall” with the Russian word “shaft” cannot be ignored when examining the issue of the presence or absence of Russian roots in non-Russian languages, in this case English. To say that the “wall” is the “wall” and the “shaft” is the “shaft”, and these are different words, simply means saying nothing and not even understanding the meaning of the problem. The English word "wall" can be called not only a wall, but also the shaft itself. And there is one more coincidence. The English word "wallow" exactly means "wallow." That is, two words have the same roots, although they have different endings, and mean the same thing. And although we can, maybe from “perseverance”, maybe from “resourcefulness”, or maybe for some unknown reason, deny the closeness of the words “wall” and “bring down”, the British saw this closeness and even fixed it in the verbal material.

    Quote: Glot
    The wall is a kind of vertical, and nothing "falls down" there.

    Vertical is a foreign word and came to Russian quite late. It did not exist in the Middle Ages. And in Russian we say “a wall falls vertically”, “a wall is a surface falling vertically”. And "to fall" is to "fall".
  • Penzuck
    Penzuck 12 February 2016 08: 26
    0
    O-tya (o-sign of respect for the product - chy- transcription) - tea in Japanese. bully
    Ivan tea (Donnik) is a Russian plant, then they called it current. Sbiten - Russian tea. fellow
    Kitay-Gorod - the quarter where Chinese goods were sold. bully

    China, other Russian. China (Afan. Nikit. 20), hence fam. Kitaev, from the 15th century (see Sobolevsky, RFV 69, 390). Through Tat., Uygh., Tob. Kutai "China, Chinese," tour. Hutai "North. China ”(see Vamberi, Uigur. Spr. 223; Radlov 2, 786; 1723), others - Turkic. Qutan from China. K᾽itan - the Tungus-Manchu people who conquered in the 10th century China; see Barthold at Marquart, WA 35; O. Franke, ZfslPh 14, 16 et al .; Ramstedt, KWb. 233; Gabyne, Sitzber. Рreuß. Akad., 1938, p. 393. Hence the name is old. the trading quarter of Moscow Chinatown (Zabelin, Enz. Words. 38, 930), for the first time in Sunday. letop. near 1534 (PSRL 6, 292 and so on), hence also China - cheap “silk fabric, a special kind of taffeta” (from the 17th century; Srezn. I, 1210).
  • Villon
    Villon 10 February 2016 16: 49
    0
    What is CGT? Not only is it unclear what you are writing about at all, you are also forced to decipher the rebuses. Is that the style?
  • Voice of the Mind
    Voice of the Mind 10 February 2016 16: 36
    +2
    Quote: venaya
    French freemason Karamzin

    Karamzin - the son of Kara-Murza, a real Frenchman))))))))))) wassat
    1. Villon
      Villon 10 February 2016 16: 52
      -2
      Quote: Voice of the Mind
      Quote: venaya
      French freemason Karamzin

      Karamzin - the son of Kara-Murza, a real Frenchman))))))))))) wassat

      Please note that the French Mason is not the same as the real Frenchman.
    2. venaya
      venaya 10 February 2016 17: 01
      +2
      Voice of the Mind"Karamzin - the son of Kara-Murza"- I agree, he is not Russian, only he sold his" small homeland ", the legacy of his daddy, went to Paris. There he was" warmed up ", robbed to the bone and already absolutely beggar, frankly dying of hunger, picked up"good people". They gave shelter, food, supplied with the appropriate" knowledge, knowledge ", then supplied with the necessary money and sent with certain goals back to the Russian Empire, where he brilliantly fulfilled the tasks assigned to him, well, just like the" liberals "are now. And the literary nickname (pseudonym), vaguely reminiscent of the Russian-speaking surname, seems to have been given to him there, in Paris, too, so he was a French mason and not a Russian.
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  • V.ic
    V.ic 11 February 2016 10: 52
    +1
    Quote: Darkness
    "holy" Nevsky

    Not you canonized, not you and "quotes" to put.
  • King, just king
    King, just king 10 February 2016 10: 56
    +3
    In all this mess with the "yoke" I was always interested in one question. Why Lithuania was not defeated. All sorts of Olgerds there, go to war against the ulusnik Dmitry, mend devastation and desolation, they almost burned Moscow, wolves, and the Horde turns a blind eye to all these antics. All this despite the potential reduction in "yield" for objective reasons.
    And the Smolensk principality, objectively not being under the "yoke"?
    Or take Vorskla. It would seem complete defeat, go, finish it, take new tributaries. But no, Edigheus leaves.
    1. novel66
      novel66 10 February 2016 11: 50
      +3
      in color, comrade! Lithuania and in a hurry to mom - did not have time. How did the wild Mongols and Western Russians combine?
    2. Penzuck
      Penzuck 10 February 2016 14: 08
      +1
      https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%97%D0%B0%D0%BF%D0%B0%D0%B4%D0%BD%D1%8B%D0%B9_%
      D0%BF%D0%BE%D1%85%D0%BE%D0%B4_%D0%BC%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%B3%D0%BE%D0%BB%D0%BE%D0%B2
      Although you should study Wikipedia, tads and questions will disappear ...
      1. novel66
        novel66 10 February 2016 21: 38
        +2
        well, these links are unlikely - and wikipedia is not the pinnacle of knowledge by golly!
        1. Penzuck
          Penzuck 11 February 2016 10: 57
          0
          Well, why is it that little Lithuania, tattered in the northern dense forests, which the Order couldn’t pick up?
          When is there a wonderful way through Hungary and Poland, the Czech Republic and Mazovia? And the Emperor of the HRE generally "crap" - he signed up as a falconer to Khan ...
          That is not a question of "the meanness of the Lithuanians", but a question of expediency ...
          If the Kipchak Kipchaks fled to Hungary, then it is convenient to graze cattle there?
          In addition, if they do not need Novgorod, then why do they need Lithuania? Especially since tm could at any time cut off the supply of grain (and other goods from Kiev and Vladimir) to Novgorod?
          If this is not obvious ... then what's the point of having a conversation at all?
  • bedinvlad
    bedinvlad 10 February 2016 11: 12
    +1
    Quote: Darkness
    Compared to the victories of Svyatoslav, Nevsky is a child.

    Only the "child" has not lost a single battle, and Svyatoslav? And do not think badly about the people, if not "PR" and the memory of the people cannot be fooled. Oleg, Vladimir the Baptist, Nevsky, Dmitry Donskoy and others remained in the memory, but not Svyatoslav. Apparently all the military merits of Svyatoslav were alien to the population.
    1. Darkness
      Darkness 10 February 2016 11: 20
      -2
      Because Svyatoslav was a pagan.
      What battles does Nevsky have? One minor border skirmish, the second more or less big battle. And then he loses the Battle of Rakovors.
      And the memory of the people ... That PR, then remember.
      The same Grozny is doing Nevsky in all respects and has done many times more for our Motherland, but he was promoted as a "bloody tyrant".
      1. bedinvlad
        bedinvlad 10 February 2016 12: 48
        +1
        Oleg was also a pagan, but they remember him. So Grozny is also "remembered". Only after the reign of Grozny did the state slide into Troubles, and after the reign of Nevsky it survived as a state, strengthened, in the realities of that period. Apparently for the people there is something more important than "purely military valor".
        1. Darkness
          Darkness 10 February 2016 13: 05
          0
          We survived the Troubles. And further strengthened the country.
          I repeat once again:
          Propaganda - it always worked. People tend to believe their superiors.
          You at least read about Grozny, about the battle of Molody, especially.
        2. Rivares
          Rivares 10 February 2016 15: 15
          +2
          Quote: bedinvlad
          Only after the reign of Grozny, the state slipped into trouble

          Only after the reign of the formidable, the population of Russia increased 2 times and grew land. And after the reign of Vladimir (the baptist) and Peter 1, the population decreased by at least 2 times + territorial losses
  • vladimirvn
    vladimirvn 10 February 2016 12: 48
    +1
    A great curse in Russia was the desire to lose one's memory. May God grant us not to forget people who have contributed to the great history of our country.
    And one more thing. "In the near future, the Russian Military Historical Society (RVIO) plans to install road signs in all regions of the country, indicating the place where a little-known in history feat of a military unit or an individual soldier was performed."
    Read on: http://izvestia.ru/news/603745#ixzz3zkwfMLiP
  • KBR109
    KBR109 10 February 2016 12: 55
    +3
    "Separated from the state" LLC ROC rules and promotes its candidate. The victory over the Khazars is the greatest deed. Their garrisons and tuduns were stationed in Kiev itself. Therefore, the princely chambers were nearby in Vysehrad. And the "wild and jumping over the trees" Svyatoslav (Gundyaev so called the Slavs before Orthodoxy) as a hero of the Russian Orthodox Church is disgusting.
    1. Darkness
      Darkness 10 February 2016 13: 09
      +1
      Victory over the Khazars, over the Tatar-Mongols, over the Turks, over the French, over the Nazis - this should be promoted and praised always and everywhere.
      And not friendship with the invaders. This is how in the 20th century to make friends with the Nazis against the Japanese or vice versa.
      1. Pissarro
        Pissarro 10 February 2016 18: 46
        +1
        a temporary alliance in politics is not friendship. We were also allies with the Anglo-Saxons for a short time of the Second World War. We had an agreement on friendship and cooperation with the Nazis for two years. It was all about having temporary interests, no more. Nevsky needed a Horde to oppose the West and he used the horde. Kalita also needed a horde to elevate and strengthen Moscow. When the horde was no longer needed and strength increased, the horde was merged. Having transferred from it all the best to strengthen the state. Pragmatism was no more. Nevsky saw through the centuries. The same Daniel Galitsky did not put those on those and Galicia was doomed, albeit not immediately.
        And the lack of courage in politics climbed into the rage and raked off the superior forces of the enemy
  • prishelec
    prishelec 10 February 2016 13: 59
    0
    Not long ago, Putin said that there was no Tatar-Mongol yoke, but there was a Russian state. Putin is only right that it was not a yoke. According to some, this was a caliphate reliable. laughing do not judge strictly.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 10 February 2016 16: 07
      0
      Did you read the article carefully? The author clearly writes: there was a tribute, there were Baskaks, up to Novogrod, there were non-Sermen, there were soldiers whom Alexander "begged from service in the Horde". It was all there! And this is not a yoke? A touching partnership between two sovereign state entities, right? And what then is a yoke if it is not a yoke?
      1. prishelec
        prishelec 10 February 2016 16: 22
        0
        Quote: kalibr
        The author clearly writes

        You never know that the author writes !!! laughing laughing laughing
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 10 February 2016 18: 26
          0
          And then what is the yoke, if not this? Three faces is not the answer!
      2. The comment was deleted.
  • Wanderer 2008
    Wanderer 2008 10 February 2016 15: 38
    0
    Quote: Army 2
    I do not agree with any conclusion of the author.

    Dear CSKA 2, and personally, what kind of proposals do you have, how would you act in those conditions? It would be interesting to get acquainted with the entire list.
  • King, just king
    King, just king 10 February 2016 21: 25
    +2
    Quote: Wanderer 2008
    how would you act in those conditions? It would be interesting to get acquainted with the entire list.


    May I?

    If only they would have chosen me on a ladder bill by the Grand Duke of Vladimir during the time of Nevsky ...

    1. Would swell in the joys of two weeks;
    2. Would have zakoreshitsya with a "yoke" in the gums, because to look to the West - there is no wash. There "a vassal of my vassal - not my vassal", while the lads get together, a couple of tumens "yoke" tyk-duk, tyk-duk, and now under Vladimir. Yes, and the knight-dogs will throw on anyone that the Byzantines specifically realized when these Constantinople with buckets on their heads ...;
    3. He would cut all the specific princes such as Moscow, Serpukhov, Mozhaisk, for there is nothing here;
    4. I would have set the "yoke" on the Tver Grand Duchy, eliminating it as a state. Land and little people for yourself;
    5. Would swell for joys for a month;
    6. I would get along with the Ryazan Grand Duke, for Ryazan is the leading edge before the "yoke"
    7. Promising the "yoke" unmeasured bakshish, together with all the acquired power, would soak the great Nizhne-Novgorod principality.
    8. Inviting the "yoke" for zipuns "would have seized Novgorod and the surrounding area, including Pskov. Along the way, having looked in and plundered the lands of the Order, for order. But I would not have gone far, so as not to complicate much;
    9. He thumped, to celebrate delirium tremens;
    10. He would constantly troll the yoke about Lithuania until he turned the Grand Duchy of Lithuania into ashes, having divided it with Poland. Smolensk Grand Duchy of course;
    11. I would exchange Kiev with Poland for complete non-interference in the Galician and Volyn lands;
    12. Helped the yoke to separate completely from the Karakoram (without a clue what it is and where it is);
    13. skip as a bad number.
    14. Swell, would again, and um, hmm, nda ... agreed, would be with the Metropolitan about the permission of the harem.
  • Jääkorppi
    Jääkorppi 10 February 2016 22: 25
    0
    Fomenko-Nosovschina disguised by certain historical facts! Burn with hot iron!
    1. V.ic
      V.ic 11 February 2016 11: 05
      0
      Quote: JääKorppi
      Fomenko-Nosovschina disguised by certain historical facts!

      Scaligerism, grounded only by cabalism, to which we owe the appearance of as many as three "dark ages" is this serious?
      Quote: JääKorppi
      Burn with hot iron!

      ... on the feet, of course?