Military Review

Demand for blown values

81
The first customers of airships appear in Russia


Discussions about the return to the airship sky are conducted from the end of the 60-x. There is an experimental design work. Should appear and the tasks to be solved with the help of such a vehicle.

The options for the use of airships in the development of oil and gas in the Arctic are being considered - in Russia for this purpose it is planned to use five vehicles.

Flying Supertankers


The era of airships began in World War I, and ended in the mid-30s, when aeronautics finally supplanted aviation. The terrible catastrophe of the German "Hindenburg" in 1937 showed their extreme fire hazard. Airships at that time were filled with hydrogen. It was possible to use safe helium, as they do now, but because of the imperfection of the technology at that time, it turned out to be extremely expensive. It is not cheap now, but the price is within reasonable limits (for more details - "Recognized Helium").

Airships could become a competitor to the current cargo fleetas well as aircraft of local airlines. Modern sea vessels carry 10–20 thousand tons, tankers - up to 300 thousand, ferries over short distances even more. And although experts say that there is no limit to the carrying capacity of airships, now only 100 tons are being designed, more "capacious" options are only being worked out. But the speed of sea vessels barely reaches 30 kilometers per hour. And airships move five times faster. Skeptics point to the poor maneuverability of vehicles, but it is unlikely to be worse than that of giant tankers and bulk carriers. In addition, sea transportation is carried out only between ports, which are far from always being points of departure and destination. And the airship can fly anywhere without requiring complex infrastructure such as moorings and airfields. He is a crane for himself: it hovered at the right point and hooked and unhooked the load.

Of course, we need giant hangar hangars for routine preventive maintenance and repair, but it can be assumed that they pay off much faster than ports with airfields. In the future, cargo airships are very suitable for unmanned communication. After all, what happens with the management, the device will simply hang in the air until it is taken in tow and delivered to the mooring masts. Moreover, even if the shell is damaged, if it consists of isolated compartments, the airship will not collapse like an airplane, but will fall more or less smoothly. That is, security is obviously higher than in aviation.

Who in the forest, who for the fish


The cost of tickets for the airship, according to calculations, will be comparable to the bus and train fares. And he has a bit more speed.

Airships can be used to solve problems in which none of the known modes of transport is an assistant. For example, due to inaccessibility, millions of hectares of taiga are full of overripe forest, which turns into a windbreak, does not allow young trees to grow, it is very fire-hazardous. The airship will deliver loggers at least where, to organize a point felling, take out any volumes of wood to the place of processing.

There is an acute question about the delivery of fish and seafood from the Far East to the European part of Russia. There is a catastrophic shortage of refrigerated wagons, besides, the train runs from Vladivostok to Moscow for two weeks or more. Airships with a carrying capacity from 100 to 500 tons could fly around the floating bases, collect the catch and cool it automatically, rising to the desired height. The delivery time from Vladivostok to Kaliningrad is five to six days. In the return flight the airship can be loaded with vegetables and fruits.

Airships will also be effective for military transport operations, for the delivery of troops and their supply in inaccessible areas.

When do we start?


However, in order to develop commercial aeronautics, a lot of time-consuming and financial engineering problems have to be solved, which are hardly possible even for rich private structures. Need public shoulder.

Airships on 2000 tons of payload are real. But if they are equipped, as now, with gas turbine engines, then half of their capacity will eat fuel. And if the atomic load? Compact and safe reactors suitable for installation on air vehicles have already been created. There is another beautiful solution - solar-powered airships. Airplanes are already there.

Demand for blown values


In Moscow, grants from Skolkov are designing an airship on 200 tons. In Chernogolovka, Corresponding Member of the Russian Academy of Sciences Vilen Azatyan develops inhibitor gases that will prevent hydrogen from igniting, which will allow the lightest gas to be returned to dirigible building to replace expensive helium. In Dolgoprudny there is a boathouse in which the local design bureau is already building mini-airships to order. So there is a launching pad for a promising direction in Russia. It remains to find the means.
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http://vpk-news.ru/articles/29111
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  1. Mikhail Krapivin
    Mikhail Krapivin 10 February 2016 16: 43 New
    28
    I liked everything in the article. In addition to mentioning Skolkovo. This is not a credible organization.
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 10 February 2016 16: 48 New
      +4
      Quote: Mikhail Krapivin
      I liked everything in the article. In addition to mentioning Skolkovo. This is not a credible organization.

      And what do you know about Skolkovo?
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 10 February 2016 16: 58 New
        +7
        Quote: RUSS
        And what do you know about Skolkovo?

        "Sawmill"! laughing
      2. GSVG 86-88
        GSVG 86-88 10 February 2016 17: 11 New
        +6
        The fact of the matter is that no one really knows anything about Skolkovo, except that all the top managers in Forbes.
      3. ferdiperdozzz
        ferdiperdozzz 10 February 2016 20: 53 New
        +1
        Basically - what they say in comedy clubs / squares / full houses / etc.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. oldseaman1957
      oldseaman1957 10 February 2016 16: 49 New
      +3
      Quote: Mikhail Krapivin
      I liked everything in the article. In addition to mentioning Skolkovo.
      - But he will take Chubais and make a NANODIRIGOPEL!
      But seriously, we somehow overlooked the airships, although the prospects for their use, with their relative cheapness, are huge.
      1. Maxom75
        Maxom75 10 February 2016 18: 28 New
        +3
        Chubais will make a nano-gyroscope, but in order to consider it, will you need a nano-telescope?)))
      2. cap
        cap 10 February 2016 19: 02 New
        0
        Quote: oldseaman1957
        Quote: Mikhail Krapivin
        I liked everything in the article. In addition to mentioning Skolkovo.
        - But he will take Chubais and make a NANODIRIGOPEL!
        But seriously, we somehow overlooked the airships, although the prospects for their use, with their relative cheapness, are huge.


        It is already flying, but it was pumped up very nano and IT was already invisible.
        And besides laughter, I saw a tablet for schoolchildren. The rest is probably Rogozin's secret.
    4. tilovaykrisa
      tilovaykrisa 10 February 2016 16: 59 New
      +1
      I did not like the nuclear reactors, but they are compact, but the issue of water has not been resolved? Somewhere to take it, it’s not a nuclear submarine to settle, even mobile reactors are used near water bodies. Not to mention nuclear power plants.
      1. yuriy55
        yuriy55 10 February 2016 17: 02 New
        +4
        Right at the hearing:
        I have a dream: I will buy plywood, build an airplane (in our case, an airship) and fly away from here to a vigorous grandmother, until the roosters crowed ... " wink
      2. Felix
        Felix 10 February 2016 17: 33 New
        0
        Quote: tilovaykrisa
        I did not like the nuclear reactors, but they are compact, but the issue of water has not been resolved? Somewhere to take it, it’s not a nuclear submarine to settle, even mobile reactors are used near water bodies. Not to mention nuclear power plants.

        Maybe some version of the RTG?
        1. tilovaykrisa
          tilovaykrisa 10 February 2016 18: 13 New
          0
          Well, if their current in a solid case is mounted as a casing, then it is real))))
      3. i80186
        i80186 10 February 2016 17: 59 New
        +1
        Quote: tilovaykrisa
        I did not like the nuclear reactors, but they are compact, but the issue of water has not been resolved? Somewhere to take it, it’s not a nuclear submarine to settle, even mobile reactors are used near water bodies. Not to mention nuclear power plants.

        That even though you are all obsessed with water? They flew into space, 150 kW of thermal power, where did the heat go? There is not even air. laughing
        https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%D0%BE%D1%81%D0%BC%D0%BE%D1%81-1818
        1. tilovaykrisa
          tilovaykrisa 10 February 2016 18: 11 New
          +1
          the temperature there is completely different +4 -160. they use completely different reagents for enrichment in fuel; it is much more dangerous than nuclear power plants (especially tablets) and what will happen if it breaks down in the atmosphere? Chernobyl will be just a kindergarten. They tried to agree, but at a safe distance, and in the end they closed everything.
          1. velikoros-xnumx
            velikoros-xnumx 10 February 2016 18: 26 New
            +2
            Quote: tilovaykrisa
            temperature there what prompt in space that?

            But no. Temperature characterizes the internal state of SUBSTANCE, and in space what ??? That's right, but nothing, or rather, practically nothing. Learn the physics of my friend.
          2. i80186
            i80186 10 February 2016 18: 29 New
            +4
            Quote: tilovaykrisa
            the temperature there is completely different +4 -160.

            What temperature? Vacuum? laughing
            Quote: tilovaykrisa
            Are they used in fuel that are completely different in enrichment of REs is much more dangerous than at nuclear power plants (especially tablets) and what will happen if it breaks down in the atmosphere?

            Yes, nothing will happen, 11 kilograms will fall down and that’s it. Over 35 kg fell on Hiroshima, and not just fell, it also exploded, and nothing, they live. Again it flies slowly, not high, it does not know how to fall quickly. smile
            Quote: tilovaykrisa
            Chernobyl will be just a kindergarten

            In Chernobyl, by the way, there were 300 tons of fuel in the reactor, but it’s not scary, it’s scary that there were still a lot of fission products there. Actually because of them, and all the negative.
            1. tilovaykrisa
              tilovaykrisa 10 February 2016 23: 51 New
              0
              then you also learn astronomy or something:

              It is believed that the temperature in space tends to absolute zero. Firstly, this is not entirely true, since the entire known Universe is heated to 3 K by relict radiation. Secondly, near the stars the temperature rises. And we live quite close to the sun. Strong spacesuit is needed for spacesuits and spaceships because they enter the Earth’s shadow, and our luminary can no longer warm them to the indicated + 4 ° С. In the shade, the temperature can drop to -160 ° C, for example at night on the moon. It's cold, but it's still far from absolute zero.

              and yes, for reference in physics, the temperature of absolute zero is not 0 centigrade, google knowledge is a useful thing.

              what fell on Hiroshima and about 11kg "nothing" is said about your knowledge, go to MPEI first in order to at least understand what radioactive materials are and what they are, otherwise you are carrying such nonsense (((And it did not fall on Hiroshima but was blown up, hair falls out after...
              1. velikoros-xnumx
                velikoros-xnumx 11 February 2016 00: 56 New
                +1
                Quote: tilovaykrisa
                Strong spacesuit is needed for spacesuits and spaceships because they enter the Earth’s shadow, and our luminary can no longer warm them to the indicated + 4 ° С. In the shade, the temperature can drop to -160 ° C, for example at night on the moon. It's cold, but still far from absolute zero

                Correctly, matter in space heats up in the absence of other sources of radiation (stars) nearby by relict radiation, and in the presence of these by star radiation. Temperature changes in SUBSTANCE, and not in its absence. And in space it is practically absent, almost a vacuum. You can ask any high school teacher for physics and technology.
                Quote: tilovaykrisa
                and yes, for reference in physics, the temperature of absolute zero is not 0 centigrade, google knowledge is a useful thing.

                winked have fun. Thanks for the advice, but I have enough knowledge gained in an ordinary Soviet school.
                Celsius, Fahrenheit and Kelvin scale (the origin of which, in fact, is absolute zero, or -273 Celsius.). This is the 9th grade of the Soviet decade, the section of thermodynamics.

                what fell on Hiroshima and about 11kg "nothing" is said about your knowledge, go to MPEI first so that you can understand at least what radioactive materials are and what they are


                What does gamma and other radioactive radiation have to do with this, talking about the temperature in space.

                Regarding the scales and absolute zero, there are two wonderful jokes:

                No. 1. Lecture at the military artillery school, lecturer of the remaining lieutenant colonel:
                - When shooting at targets 3 km away from a mortar like mm-mm, its direction is set at an angle of 65 degrees to the horizon.
                One of the smartest cadet jokers is reaching out:
                - Comrade Lieutenant Colonel, and 65 degrees Celsius or Fahrenheit.
                p / p (a little confused) - Of course, Celsius
                there is silence in the audience, cadento's faces have a hard restrained laugh. The lieutenant colonel understands that he froze something wrong, but is not lost and corrects:
                - Yes, I was joking. Of course Fahrenheit.

                No. 2 Somewhere in the SGA (the United States of America, they are the United States), an interview with a Pentagon representative (say Colonel Pipes):
                Pipes:
                - Our scientists have developed a secret tank that can withstand temperatures of +300 and -300 degrees Celsius.
                there’s a slight hitch in the hall, and here one of the reporters decided to clarify:
                - Like it's -300, it's impossible. In nature, there is no temperature below -273
                Pipes, not at all bewildered:
                - The tank is secret, scientists might not know.

                PS I do not belong to the category of such "scientists" who did not know. And, believe me, my education allows me not to contact Google for such trifles.
                And you don’t be offended, but sometimes if you’re not sure it’s better not to speak (write) and not argue so as not to look stupid.
              2. i80186
                i80186 11 February 2016 07: 18 New
                +1
                Quote: tilovaykrisa
                Strong spacesuit is needed for spacesuits and spaceships because they enter the Earth’s shadow, and our luminary can no longer warm them to the indicated + 4 ° С. In the shade, the temperature can drop to -160 ° C

                Okay, I'll be an enlightener. Just imagine that they put a stove in the spacesuit that emits 160 kW, where will heat go if there is no water, if there is no air, if there is nothing? laughing
                By the way, vacuum is the best thermal insulation (what is thermal protection - only God knows), it’s better not yet been invented. smile
                1. velikoros-xnumx
                  velikoros-xnumx 11 February 2016 12: 03 New
                  0
                  Quote: i80186
                  where will heat go if there is no water, if there is no air, if there is nothing? laughing

                  Radiate in the form of relic radiation, heating space wassat
                  The case is difficult, this is not treated.
      4. your1970
        your1970 10 February 2016 18: 20 New
        0
        and safety? and God forbid the slightest accident? and the protection of the crew and cargo from radiation? I would refrain from nuclear ...
        And in general, somehow everything is slurred with the airships, everything seems to be great, but massively for some reason no one is building ..

        Oh, it’s not in vain that they didn’t massively build them in the USSR ....
        1. Loreal
          Loreal 10 February 2016 18: 50 New
          -1
          Well, give you something? See what Yuri wrote55, otherwise everyone will fly away ... and who then will stopham be glue their stickers on?
      5. opus
        opus 10 February 2016 18: 34 New
        +1
        Quote: tilovaykrisa
        but not resolved the issue of water?

        in France, 70% of the energy comes from nuclear power plants, the FIRST nuclear power plants were gas-cooled, developed by CEA

        High Temperature Gas Cooled Reactors

        In the 1970s-1990s, JSC Afrikantov OKBM, together with the RRC Kurchatov Institute, developed a number of HTGR projects for various purposes and power levels: a pilot nuclear power plant for combined production of process heat and electricity in a steam turbine cycle VG-400 gas turbine cycle of energy conversion VG-400GT, modular reactor for the production of process heat with a temperature of about 900 ° C and electricity VGM, a nuclear power plant for power supply of a typical oil refinery VGM-P.

        International project GT-MGR (Gas Turbine - Modular Helium Cooled Reactor (GT-MHR)). In 2002, the development of a preliminary design of the GT-MGR module was completed. An OCD complex is underway for an energy conversion unit and nuclear fuel.

        The main participants in the project are:
        - JSC "Afrikantov OKBM", NRC "Kurchatov Institute", JSC "VNIINM", JSC "GI" VNIPIET ", FSUE" Scientific Research Institute "NPO" Luch "(Russia) - State Corporation" Rosatom "/ US Department of Energy



        ---------------
        Threat.
        But a blimp nuclear reactor is of course overkill. wink
        1. tilovaykrisa
          tilovaykrisa 11 February 2016 00: 01 New
          0
          I agree here, but don’t be shy about the size of this type of reactor, and what kind of airship to stick it on)))
          1. opus
            opus 11 February 2016 13: 59 New
            0
            Quote: tilovaykrisa
            do not be shy about the size of this type of reactor

            Weight (mass)!
            The dimensions for the airship are tolerable.
            If memory serves: the minimum mass reached by the Americans is about 70 tons.
            What is the point?
            This is not an RTG.
            and if you use nuclear weapons on an airship, then neither He nor H2 are needed.
            How the hot air balloon will have lift, only due to the cooling system (
            Quote: opus
            High Temperature Gas Cooled Reactors
            ).
            Heat will be in excess
      6. ferdiperdozzz
        ferdiperdozzz 10 February 2016 20: 56 New
        0
        And what is the question with water? Do you mean coolant or what?
    5. Blondy
      Blondy 10 February 2016 17: 09 New
      +2
      Quote: Mikhail Krapivin
      I liked everything in the article. In addition to mentioning Skolkovo. This is not a credible organization.

      Well, why - a very trusted ... in the field of cut.
  2. polite people
    polite people 10 February 2016 16: 44 New
    0
    Russia's aviation industry is definitely on top. And the idea of ​​transportation is generally brilliant.
    1. Corsair
      Corsair 10 February 2016 16: 57 New
      +3
      Quote: polite people
      Russia's aviation industry is definitely on top. And the idea of ​​transportation is generally brilliant.

      wassat Airships of such carrying capacity will be the size of a rather big stadium, and maybe several stadiums, so transportation of goods of 100-500 tons is more like a fairy tale.
      1. Maksus
        Maksus 10 February 2016 17: 22 New
        +4
        And what prevents to make a catamaran airship (I don’t know how this term will be for the airship) type? And hang the load between the gondolas? the idea is excellent - an airship does not need airfields, it can hang in the air for a very long time, it does not need a road. Yes, he doesn’t even have to sit down. The whole question is in fuel and engine nacelles.
  3. Koshak
    Koshak 10 February 2016 16: 44 New
    +1
    And why not? good
  4. Simple
    Simple 10 February 2016 16: 50 New
    +7
    I would also add "crucial":
    The airship as a platform for radar (air defense / pro, drlo, Sarah), as well as a platform for air launch (rn, mbo / br, anti-satellite weapons)
  5. ArcanAG
    ArcanAG 10 February 2016 16: 50 New
    +6
    And if on nuclear traction?

    No need for nuclear traction. There is always a chance of an accident.

    And so - I really want to see airships in the sky. Childhood dream.
  6. Riv
    Riv 10 February 2016 16: 54 New
    +2
    Inhibitor gases for hydrogen ??? Respect for posting an article. Long time since I did not laugh. Immediately the mood was filled at the end of the working day.
    Well, yes ... Skolkovo! As we say in Russia: cheating. :)))
    1. Averias
      Averias 10 February 2016 17: 12 New
      +1
      Quote: Riv
      Inhibitor gases for hydrogen ??? Respect for posting an article. Long time since I did not laugh.

      I was already speechless when I read about the "gas inhibitor" for hydrogen. I sat, worked on the issue of the problem of using tritium in certain areas (conditions), and here on you - get a "village tractor". I thought, maybe this tritium nafig (who doesn’t know, it’s "superheavy hydrogen"), can also do inhibitors? Why, you can always say: They say oh, they say it didn't work out laughing .
      1. opus
        opus 10 February 2016 17: 27 New
        +6
        Quote: Averias
        I was already speechless when I read about the "gas inhibitor" for hydrogen

        inhibitor gas AGAINST burning(i.e. decreasing the burning rate) hydrogen (tritium has nothing to do with it).
        The theory of combustion and the prevailing notions of gas-phase combustion are changing (rapidly accelerating self-heating of the reaction system, as well as avalanche reproduction of active intermediate products - free atoms and radicals)

        Development ISMAN- add 1-2% propylene to gaseous hydrogen (strong effect small impurities a certain type of substances on the flammability of combustible mixtures)


        In the works of the corresponding member of the RAS, prof. V.V. Azatyan, Academician A.G. Merzhanova et al. Proposed highly effective means for regulating the laws of combustion and explosion of hydrogen-air mixtures: the burning rate, critical ignition conditions, and the transition of combustion to detonation. Scientists have proposed and tested olefinic compounds, in particular propylene, as effective inhibitors for the combustion of mixtures of hydrogen in air containing more than 10% hydrogen. The measurements showed that to prevent ignition of the hydrogen-air mixtures actually encountered in practice, a sufficient concentration of the proposed inhibitor is 2%. For comparison, an inert argon gas requires 80%. The presence of a 1% inhibitor prevents the transition of combustion into the explosion of any mixtures of hydrogen in the air. It was also found that inhibitors greatly increase the minimum required ignition pulse power and thereby reduce the number of possible sources of uncontrolled ignition. With the help of inhibitors, it is possible to effectively control the propagation of the flame, the transition of combustion to detonation, the characteristics of detonation, and even destroy the stationary detonation wave.

        The inhibitors proposed by the authors of the studies are corrosion-safe, non-toxic, and inexpensive. They successfully passed test tests conducted by an interdepartmental commission, which included representatives Rosenergoatom, VNIIPO Ministry of Internal Affairs of Russia, Leningrad Nuclear Power Plant.


        And it’s important not only for the airship building, but also for rocket science, nuclear energy, submarines (battery), hydrogen ICEs, fuel cells and wherever there is a danger of hydrogen evolution

        After patenting part of the results, the proposed inhibitors and the method of their application were successfully used in joint work at the Institute. M. Planck (Germany) and at the Central Institute of Aviation Motors (Moscow). At present, ISMAN's work on the regulation of hydrogen combustion and explosion is carried out jointly with a number of academic and industry institutes (Institute of Chemical Economy of the Russian Academy of Sciences, ITES, FGU VNIIPO EMERCOM of Russia).
        1. Riv
          Riv 11 February 2016 08: 13 New
          -1
          Comrade, I can’t explain to you in a short post why hydrogen inhibition is nonsense. Just believe the leading technologist of a chemical plant with two higher educations: as hydrogen ignited at the exit from the candle even at a hundred degrees, it will ignite, and when mixed with air (oxygen / chlorine / nitric acid vapor) it will explode and will explode.
          Though you are inhibited. :)))
          1. opus
            opus 11 February 2016 14: 34 New
            +1
            Quote: Riv
            Kamrad, I can’t explain to you in a short post why hydrogen inhibition is nonsense

            Genosse- explain to me in the article, well, if the article is dumb, face to face. I will understand and read with pleasure
            Quote: Riv
            that's bullshit

            I do not understand you are a specialist in gaseous hydrogen (
            Quote: Riv
            leading technologist of a chemical plant
            ) or a psychiatrist?

            «By delirium (Delusio) we understand the totality of painful ideas, reasoning and conclusions that take hold of the patient’s consciousness, distorted reality and cannot be corrected from the outside.Vadim Moiseevich Bleicher. Disorders of Thinking
            ??
            Are there really specialists of such a broad-profile schiiiiiiii?
            Quote: Riv
            Just believe the leading technologist of a chemical plant with two higher educations

            I am still inclined to believe MORE Corresponding Member of RAS, prof. V.V. Azatyan, Academician A.G. Merzhanov and the staff of the Federal State Budgetary Institution of Science Institute of Structural Macrokinetics and Problems of Materials Science, All-Russian Research Institute of Fire Defense EMERCOM of Russia of the Russian Academy of Sciences, Institute named after M. Planck (Germany) and the Central Institute of Aviation Motors (Moscow) than "
            Quote: Riv
            leading technologist of a chemical plant with two higher educations
            "!

            Do not blame ystävä. Do not be offended

            And although I am not personally acquainted with VV Azatyan, A.G. Merzhanov ...
            but I have been a PERSONAL in TIPS RAS, ITES, FGU VNIIPO EMERCOM of Russia, but I haven’t seen the "leading technologist with two higher", I have not heard, I have not read. only today)

            The breadth of knowledge of the leading chemist of the technologist bothers me (the psychiatrist, the melee, and in nationalities can be found in the Red Book, etc. --- I didn’t read further).
            moreover, not a single publication on specialized education !!!!
            At least about free radicals told. Theme is super.
            As?
            1. Riv
              Riv 12 February 2016 17: 22 New
              -2
              Boy, take the pills already. Well, yes, I have the sixth Kyokushin kyu, and I didn’t take the emergency at the battalion. History is my hobby. Chemistry is my profession. I understand that one who knows nothing and knows nothing can surprise me, but I can’t help myself.
              :)
              If you are interested in something in terms of the chemistry of hydrogen and its compounds - ask. Just don't ask me to explain why hydrogen cannot be made non-combustible. Because it is impossible. It's not meant to be.
    2. tol100v
      tol100v 10 February 2016 17: 34 New
      -2
      Quote: Riv
      Well, yes ... Skolkovo! As we say in Russia: cheating. :)))

      Sell ​​airships by inhibitors, at a price orders of magnitude more expensive than helium!
      1. opus
        opus 10 February 2016 18: 24 New
        +3
        Quote: Tol100v
        Sell ​​airships by inhibitors, at a price orders of magnitude more expensive than helium!

        what nonsense.
        Hydrogen Inhibitor - Propylene
        cost of propylene = $ 819 / ton(82 cents per kg) (propylene prices fell 11%)
        the cost of hydrogen (Hydrogen (H2), GOST 3022-80 (99,99%)) =2570.00 руб. VAT included behind Ball.40l. (6,3 m3)-This is a retailer, wholesale -60%
        helium cost = 40 ltr volume (5,7 m3) of gas, compressed to 150 atmospheres. Weight - 65 kg. Refueling Cost - 3800 p. Deposit for the cylinder - 5000 p.
        the concentration of propylene in hydrogen is 1-2%!
        3800r without VAT, because the companies are pouring in "on simplified", probably at the plant + 18% VAT, well, minus 30/40% for wholesale.
        Helium production is not cheap pleasure
        Helium is separated from other gases by deep cooling, using the fact that it liquefied harder than all other gases.

        DO I REDUCE EVERYTHING IN THE TABLE (to 1 kg) or can you yourself?

        What kind
        Quote: Tol100v
        orders
        ?
        10 ^ x?
        1. Riv
          Riv 12 February 2016 17: 23 New
          -2
          And where is the photo of an outstretched hand with granules of polyethylene (yes, yes, that’s it) She was impressive.
    3. opus
      opus 10 February 2016 18: 13 New
      +1
      Quote: Riv
      Immediately the mood was filled at the end of the working day.

      The main thing is that it didn't "go down"

      Теория strong influence of small impurities a certain type of substance the flammability of combustible mixtures

      Quote: Riv
      As we say in Russia: cheating. :)))


      everyone sees something that wants to see his brain (or lack thereof)







      Multidisciplinary Group of Companies "Konti": Effective methods of control? Combustion, explosion and detonation of gases

      Phlegmatizers and inhibitors to prevent combustion and explosion of gaseous media

      Inhibitorspropylene, halogenated hydrocarbons (such as С2Р4Вг2), potassium oxalate and alkali metal chlorides ..
      The mechanism of action of chemically active combustion inhibitors, in contrast to thermal phlegmatizers, is to break the reaction chains of the fuel combustion process. Inhibitor molecules or their decay products react vigorously with atomic hydrogen and oxygen, as well as intermediate radicals, which are active centers of the combustion reaction, turning them into stable compounds and stopping the development of reaction chains.


      Phlegmatizer - a substance, liquid, solid or powder, used as an impurity to an explosive substance (BB) to reduce sensitivity to external influences (shock, friction, spark, etc.).

      Most often, oil products with a melting point of 50–80 ° C (paraffins, stearin, ceresin, petrolatum, etc.), synthetic polymers, or mixtures thereof are used as a phlegmatizer. Often, a dye is introduced into the composition of the phlegmatizer, which gives coloring to explosive charges.
      1. Riv
        Riv 11 February 2016 08: 21 New
        0
        Comrade, good to be kidding! I can’t work like that. :)))

        You yourself then look at your charts. Well, is there a difference, for 10 ms in an explosive mixture, the pressure rises, or in 60 ms? He banged all the same. The Hindenburg burned down in 15 seconds. Would burn out in a minute - would it be easier?
        Add hydrogen chloride to the same mixture - the effect will be even greater. But it won’t make her safe.

        It’s not bad that you are so gullible. The bad thing is that people who are just as trusting, but nichrome do not know what hydrogen is, make decisions on financing utopian projects.
        1. opus
          opus 11 February 2016 14: 08 New
          0
          Quote: Riv
          Well is there any difference

          These are laboratory tests! In a boiler-sized installation.
          / The article should be read carefully, why did I bring it?
          Quote: Riv
          ce he flopped

          there just "banged" and prevents (an avalanche-like increase in combustion).
          and combustible components ..
          Ну и что?
          cars (tanks, airplanes, rockets) run on gasoline (kerosene, UDMG), gasoline vapors bang "mom don't cry"
          diesel fuel burns
          hydrogen is constantly emitted in nuclear power plants, in submarines (closed, under water) from a power plant, how much hydrogen.
          A bunch of lv and explosive liquids and gases use humanity

          Quote: Riv
          hydrogen chloride -

          1. His critical point is very low (5,15grS)
          2. Toxic, this is BOV (old)
          3.With steam-HCl
          =============== will not roll
          Quote: Riv
          It’s not bad that you are so gullible. The bad thing is that the same gullible,

          It’s good that I, unlike you, am educated.
          Quote: Riv
          not knowing what hydrogen is

          4 years of work at the department with hydrogen + X in the specialty.
          If you know MORE ME- ENLIGHTEN. But without idle talk, sarcasm and amateurish reasoning.
          I will be glad
          1. Riv
            Riv 11 February 2016 15: 27 New
            -2
            Well what can I say? He is about Thomas, and he is about Yerema. Education ... :)

            Although most likely - an ordinary schoolboy, as evidenced by ignorance of the properties of chemicals (the critical point in hydrogen chloride is just 51 degrees - so what?), Inability to use reference literature (and at least Wikipedia) and absolute ignorance of history. Chlorine rather than hydrogen chloride was used as an OWL. The latter in this capacity is completely useless, due to its low toxicity and high solubility in water. And about the reaction with water vapor - this is something!

            The nuclear power plant emits hydrogen ... Yaplakal ... :)))
            1. opus
              opus 11 February 2016 19: 11 New
              +1
              Quote: Riv
              Chlorine rather than hydrogen chloride was used as an OWL.

              Yes Yes:

              and also HCl is used for the production of other chemical warfare agents: mustard gas (HD), phosgene (CG)

              Quote: Riv
              And about the reaction with water vapor - this is something!

              Well, yes, the stump is clear.
              HCL - fuming in humid air ...

              Chemistry Handbook (Chemistry, not pi ** on) 21 CHEMISTRY AND CHEMICAL TECHNOLOGY

              Quote: Riv
              The nuclear power plant emits hydrogen ... Yaplakal ... :)))

              Yes ... "Leading chemist technologist" (
              Quote: Riv
              Although most likely - ordinary schoolboy
              .
              The paragraph of the Mariwanna sailed ..

              Parozirconium reactionя - an exothermic chemical reaction between zirconium and water vapor, which occurs at high temperatures. In particular, the reaction can occur in the core of a nuclear reactor with a water coolant and / or moderator when it overheats under conditions of contact of zirconium structural elements with water.
              Zr + 2H2O = ZrO2 + 2H2 + Q,
              It goes in the active zone even of non-boiling reactors; in this case, steam is formed, which, upon reaching 861 ° C, reacts with zirconium. As a result, hydrogen is produced in an amount of about 0,491 liters per gram of reacted zirconium and a large amount of heat is released - 6530 kJ / kg

              Radiolysis:decomposition of chemical compounds by ionizing radiation
              An example of the decay of a water molecule under the influence of alpha radiation



              The problem of VVER-440 and VVER-1000 (mk water coolant and moderator)
              -------------------------------------
              All alescaput.
              I spend time on an arrogant noob, and absolutely illiterate
              1. Riv
                Riv 11 February 2016 22: 16 New
                -2
                Young man, you forgot to take the pills. :)
      2. Corsair
        Corsair 11 February 2016 10: 04 New
        0
        Quote: opus
        Phlegmatizers and inhibitors to prevent combustion and explosion of gaseous media

        You can add anything, but if you do not chemically bind hydrogen - that is, do not H, but Hx, where x is any binding element and does not allow a chemical reaction of the type 4H + O2 - anyway, an explosive filler will be obtained at the output, plus it must be taken into account fluidity and property to react with metals.
        To avoid explosion or ultrafast burning (suppose inhibitors can slow down the reaction very strongly), hydrogen must be enclosed in multiple shells with an ultra-dense crystal lattice.
        That is, the gondolas should, in theory, be filled not with hydrogen, but with some foam containing hydrogen, but how to then bleed it off (stupidly dumped by sector or some other chemistry there to dissolve the foam and dump hydrogen) question
        1. Riv
          Riv 11 February 2016 11: 34 New
          0
          No, there are various nuances. For example, the reaction of hydrogen with chlorine slows down by orders of magnitude in the presence of oxygen, and oxygen requires hundredths of a percent. This is common knowledge. But this does not mean that the hydrogen chloride mixture will not explode. Oxygen in chlorine is almost always present, but even the mixture inhibited by it pops and how!
          Foam is also less explosive, but liquid tends to settle, and solid ... Well, they laughed - and okay.
        2. opus
          opus 11 February 2016 14: 15 New
          0
          Quote: Corsair
          but if hydrogen is not chemically bound, that is, do not H, but Hx, where x is any binding element

          meaning is lost in hydrogen, as the lightest gas, the power of Archimedes will not work.
          The airship will not lift itself.
          ----------------------------------------------------------
          Quote: Corsair
          To avoid an explosion

          If so "afraid" of gaseous hydrogen, then the exit
          -thermal (thermo) airship

          -vacuum airships ("Device for creating the lifting force of aircraft lighter than air", Russian patent RU No. 2001831 B64B 1/58, B64B 1/62,) the lifting force is up to 14% greater than that of gas (He)

          1. Riv
            Riv 11 February 2016 15: 33 New
            0
            It remains to saw the nanotubes, the weight of which would allow us to realize the lifting force of the vacuum ... Skolkovo will be engaged. Give Chubais money!

            For some reason hamsters do not have the idea to stupidly fill the balloon with methane. It is cheaper than shit after a bath, it is easily transported and not as dangerous as hydrogen. In flight, part of it can be used as fuel, warming up the balloon and increasing lift. Not long enough, but it all depends on the size of the container. And to further reduce the danger, you can put not one cylinder, but three. In the center with methane, on the sides with hot air.
            I give it, use it. :)
            You can even estimate the efficiency, based on the fact that for the operation of a suitable burner you will need about 70 normal cubic meters of methane per hour.
            1. Riv
              Riv 11 February 2016 15: 53 New
              0
              For fun, I figured in my mind the parameters of this device.
              The length of the methane tank is 100 m, diameter 17 m, load capacity slightly more than 10 tons (on methane, and if air tanks are preheated, then even more). In the air, if methane is used as fuel, it will spend more than 100 hours.
  7. McLuha-MacLeod
    McLuha-MacLeod 10 February 2016 16: 55 New
    0
    Author Michael Goldreer !!!!!!!

    Nonsense, Dregs, Crap. Some strange thoughts a la 30s
    1. Loreal
      Loreal 10 February 2016 17: 54 New
      0
      the original article says:

      Michael Goldreer,
      coordinator of the movement “Right to Arms”
      Read more: http://vpk-news.ru/articles/29111
  8. JACTUS RECTUS
    JACTUS RECTUS 10 February 2016 16: 56 New
    +4
    Weather conditions, especially in the Far East in the Sea of ​​Okhotsk, will not allow the use of these airships.
    1. Name classified
      Name classified 10 February 2016 17: 16 New
      0
      For some reason they will allow it, for some reason it will not, it depends on the task. Hanging motionless over a particular point will not be easy, but for movement it is enough that the speed is greater than the wind speed. Well, a rigid body, so that the wind itself was not scary.
      1. JACTUS RECTUS
        JACTUS RECTUS 10 February 2016 17: 56 New
        +1
        It’s not immediately visible that they weren’t in the Far East. As you have a wind speed of 30-40 meters, there are such cyclones in Okhotsk every week, and in winter two, why did you think that the wind will be fair, and the tail will bury this colossus in three by five. do you know.
  9. Corsair
    Corsair 10 February 2016 17: 00 New
    0
    Dreams of dreams, carrying capacity, meteorological dependence, high windage due to super-giant sizes - in general, airship efficiency is too high in the author's opus. wassat
  10. Indifferent
    Indifferent 10 February 2016 17: 03 New
    0
    Airships have already been tried to be used as a means of transport. How it all ended is well known. Apparently, the author is not aware of historical events related to the operation of airships.
    Here on the site are ten of the most famous accidents with airships.
    http://www.phototopic.ru/novisti-v-fotografiyah/top-10-samyh-uzhasnyh-katastrof-


    dirizhabley.html
    Here is what is written about the latter case:
    April 4, 1933, USA. Airship Akron. One of the largest airships in the world and one of the most reliable. The culprit of the disaster is terrible weather. A strong wind tore off the control cables and the airship began to roll on its side. Akron fell in the Atlantic, where it shattered into small pieces. The accident killed 73 people and only three survived. The airship, which was sent in search of Akron, also crashed, which took the lives of 2 people. The loss of Akron closed the era of airships. Cars and planes are much safer for passenger traffic.
    As you know, in the North we always have bad weather. There, wind, snow charges, fogs, icing are common and do not serve the safe operation of these explosive gas bubbles. And using helium is extremely expensive.
    So I’m sure that the state will definitely not be engaged in this dubious business. And private companies, if they are engaged, before the first serious disaster.
    Small airships can find their niche, but far from 500 or even 50 tons. Airships will not be able to "self-freeze" fish either. They do not rise to heights where the temperature is sharply negative. This is not "statosrata"!
    1. Loreal
      Loreal 10 February 2016 18: 40 New
      0
      Apparently the author is just in the know.
      The culprit of the Akron disaster in 1933 was a captain who climbed in bad (non-flying) weather and mismanaged him there. The "last case" is an Lz-129 blown up by antifa at Lakehurst in 1937 bully he is listed under number 6.
      "hydrogen bomber" Lz-127 flew over all Siberia and the Arctic.

      A Chubais helicopter is certainly more profitable - it consumes several times more fuel. By the way there are those who at least raise 50 tons?
    2. Fat
      Fat 11 February 2016 00: 31 New
      0
      The indifferent buried the idea of ​​a revival of aeronautics. We need to make another selection and finally bury the idea of ​​navigation
      Quote: indifferent
      As you know, in the North we always have bad weather. There is wind, snow charges, fogs, icing is common

      You can successfully bury cars and locomotives, riding and airplane flying - this is dangerous and the weather is not the same. (see quote)
      You give couch reclining and armchair sitting (but in seismically active areas) these kinds of human activity are also insanely dangerous, but they can have their own niche - cities with no more than 50 inhabitants laughing laughing
  11. A1L9E4K9S
    A1L9E4K9S 10 February 2016 17: 04 New
    +1
    It remains to find the funds.

    Find funds? Yes, easily, as many as you like, and at least ten annual budgets of Russia, for this you just need to ask such ghouls like Chubais, Gref and the like with a kind word and a gun, it's good to ask our (all respected) governors. How many regions in Russia, from each the governor for a million green American (so beloved by them) rubles, for them it’s a trifle, a penny from billions (they will not impoverish), and they will help their native country, tea is not their enemies, but their enemies?
  12. Rebus
    Rebus 10 February 2016 17: 06 New
    +3
    And the airship can fly anywhere without requiring complex infrastructure such as moorings and airfields. He is a crane for himself: it hovered at the right point and hooked and unhooked the load.

    A very controversial statement, the airship also needs infrastructure, at least mooring masts are needed, and in light of the superfluidity of helium, gas stations are also needed. Airships are very dependent on the wind, even, it seems to me, more than ships from the storm ...
  13. Michael67
    Michael67 10 February 2016 17: 08 New
    +2
    Airships are good. Everything that is aimed at development is good. No need to globalize. The airship will find its profitable niche. Here's another interesting topic - ECIP. Somehow nothing is heard about him.
  14. Gormenghast
    Gormenghast 10 February 2016 17: 17 New
    +1
    Airships had one catastrophic flaw: fire and explosion hazard. But he is easily overcome; Moreover, structural materials, compared to the 30s of the last century, have become stronger and lighter.

    So they have a right to exist. The problem is that all this has been known somewhere since the 80s of the last century; then began a talking room about modern airships. But the real movement was not enough. Here and there - occasionally. Let's see what happens now; annoying the invisible presence of the notorious Skolkovo.
    1. Nord2015
      Nord2015 10 February 2016 17: 53 New
      0
      Quote: Gormengast
      annoying the invisible presence of the notorious Skolkovo.

      Once I had the good fortune to get acquainted with Skolkovo products. It was a sweet soda. what ... As soon as this "innovative" center is mentioned, for some reason you begin to think that all ventures will end in nothing, and the money will simply evaporate. I wonder if there is at least some benefit from him?
      1. opus
        opus 10 February 2016 20: 05 New
        0
        Quote: Nord2015
        Once I had the good fortune to get acquainted with Skolkovo products. It was a sweet soda.

        Why didn’t you find water (drink) nearby in the shop?

        -Biodegradable stent for the treatment of coronary heart disease “Biosten” (the domestic market is 0,5 billion, and the world - $ 15 billion - the entry into the world market is planned in 2016-2020)
        - Regenex Autologous Cell Vaccines for the Treatment of Multiple Sclerosis (The domestic market is $ 1 billion and the world’s is 30 billion. Skolkovo, a participating company, received a grand $ 5 million, this year the project is scheduled for global market, clinical trials are in progress)
        - A remedy for slowing down the aging process and treating the diseases associated with it, “Tartis Aging”, the launch of the product on the market is scheduled for 2018.
        - A portable device for the diagnosis of blood coagulation "Thrombodynamics-4D", in 2014, serial sales in Russia began.
        - Macros software package for automation of engineering calculations from DATADVANS, serial sales of the software created at Skolkovo began in 2012, and revenue reached 65 million euros. An additional office was opened in Toulouse this year.
        -Software for solving the problems of modeling the development of oil and gas fields tNavigator, investments of 22,7 million rubles in 2012. The software created at Skolkovo has already been sold in the amount of 60 million rubles.
        -Linguistic platform for translation and understanding of the ABBYY language, in 2012 software sales started, and revenue amounted to 254 million rubles.
        -Web platform for remote work via the Internet “Workl”, in total, the platform already has more than 200 thousand jobs
        - “Kintech”, “Forest Watch”, Prototype Systems for technological platforms in the field of information and communications (market 25 billion dollars)
        -Technology for audiovisual reproduction of scripted text, film language (in 2012 the first working prototype entered the market, revenue amounted to 1,8 million rubles).
        -Autopilots for ground transportation, Robosivi (a low-cost alternative to cars from Google)
        -Stechnology of satellite building, commercial spacecraft, in 2014, the first launch of the satellite-demonstrator took place, the mass of which is 16 kg. It is planned that in 2015 sales will grow to 300 million rubles.
        - Laser ignition systems for rockets and cars, Spectralizer
        -Polymorphic switches for onboard spacecraft control systems, Tenzosensor (at the beginning of 2015, revenue reached 200 million rubles, and in three years the company wants to occupy 25% of the domestic switch market.)
        -Hybrid navigation receiver for seamless positioning and geographic information services ("GPS" under the roof), mobile installations expected to reach 1 billion
        - Budget satellites for commercial use, Dauria
        -Compact time and frequency generators for earth and space, MACH this year participate in the Federal Space Program of the Russian Federation and start selling non-exclusive licenses.

        etc.

        Threat. They did not invest in "sweet soda" at Skolkovo. Otherwise Arnie wouldn't have washed his pants.


        / drink mineral water, imported
  15. Vladimir 23rus
    Vladimir 23rus 10 February 2016 17: 29 New
    +3
    I'm afraid it will remain just talk. And if this is done by "private investors" who must substitute the "shoulder" of the state (ie, give money again), then guess what will happen? Correctly another drank the budget. "Well I didn’t do it, I didn’t do it" wassat
  16. triglav
    triglav 10 February 2016 17: 35 New
    +1
    There has been a long talk about the return of airships. This aircraft has shown its benefits. And if, indeed, it is safe, then there will be a demand for it. Only at first, I think, it is necessary to launch ekranoplans in production.
  17. Senior manager
    Senior manager 10 February 2016 17: 42 New
    0
    There will definitely not be a boom, there is a niche for the airship, the modern car is simply beautiful. And the hot air balloons then revived! I think there is a future.
  18. Igor V
    Igor V 10 February 2016 17: 42 New
    +1
    In the early 30s, one of the Zeppelin flew through Leningrad to Frans-Joseph Land and further to Severnaya Zemlya. On board were ours, including E.T. Krenkel. Aerial photography was carried out. But the Soviet Union did not get the pictures, it was officially announced that the films were lit up. But after a few years, German submarines and surface ships roamed our North like at home.
    Aeronautics was over with us due to accidents, including hydrogen. But aviation did not develop without accidents. Many aviators, for example N.P. Kamanin, believed that ballooning has a great future, especially in our country with great distances and with a limited number of roads. I can only join them.
  19. Whowhy
    Whowhy 10 February 2016 17: 53 New
    +1
    Not such a big fire hazard, actually. There was a diversion in Hindenburg.
    During the Second World War, there were several airships in service, and more than once German fighters shot and shot at them - not a single one caught fire.
    It is clear that all the same, the danger is increased, but rather, due to a combination with our gouging. what
    Now in Russia, we have developed and are already using technologies for controlling combustion using an electromagnetic field (from complete cessation to intensification), which do not require special expenses (both financial and energy). So I hope we’ll still fly on airships ... good
  20. hartlend
    hartlend 10 February 2016 18: 06 New
    +2
    Quote: Mikhail Krapivin
    There is development work. The tasks to be solved with the help of such a vehicle should also appear.

    Quote: Mikhail Krapivin
    The cost of tickets for the airship, according to calculations, will be comparable to the bus and train fares. And he has a bit more speed.

    Quote: Mikhail Krapivin
    It remains to find the funds.
    Author Michael Goldreer

    Usually vehicles are created to solve problems, and not vice versa, they create crap and come up with problems that she could hypothetically solve. I'm not against airships. But the article strongly resembles Ostap Bender's speech about New Vasyuki. One gets the impression that the author with a speaking surname really wants to take part in cutting money from the budget. Why is it possible for "Rosnan" and "Skolkov", but not for him?
    1. Igor V
      Igor V 10 February 2016 20: 43 New
      0
      Say, there are no tasks, but let’s say delivery of a launch vehicle from under Samara to Vostochny Cosmodrome. And the northern delivery. The tasks of the sea.
    2. Igor V
      Igor V 10 February 2016 20: 43 New
      0
      Say, there are no tasks, but let’s say delivery of a launch vehicle from under Samara to Vostochny Cosmodrome. And the northern delivery. The tasks of the sea.
  21. Horst78
    Horst78 10 February 2016 18: 09 New
    +1
    The airships on 2000 tons of payload are real. But if they are equipped, as now, with gas turbine engines, then half of their carrying capacity will be consumed by fuel. And if on nuclear traction? Compact and safe reactors suitable for installation on airborne devices have already been created.
    And if on a kick traction, you can do without fuel at all.
  22. Million
    Million 10 February 2016 18: 50 New
    0
    Serdyukov himself dreamed about airships)
  23. Damask
    Damask 10 February 2016 19: 48 New
    0
    Skolkovo was precisely mentioned, and there’s no point in reading further, but I still had to have Chubais and everyone thought there was no project
  24. Seal
    Seal 10 February 2016 22: 28 New
    0
    Airships for 2000 tons of payload are real. But if they are equipped, as now, with gas turbine engines, then half of their carrying capacity will be consumed by fuel.

    So what ? 1000 tons of payload is also a lot.
    Here to take the heaviest cargo plane An-225 (Mriya).
    Maximum take-off weight, kg 600000
    Maximum payload kg 250000
    And he takes fuel (at maximum load for flying at maximum range with maximum load) 100 tons more than cargo - kg 350 000 fuel.
    1. Cook
      Cook 10 February 2016 23: 45 New
      +1
      I wonder how much an empty airplane weighs? In your opinion it turns out that not at all.
      1. Seal
        Seal 11 February 2016 08: 13 New
        0
        Well, yes :)) Here they are, aviation sites: ((
        I looked again. It seems empty weight - 250 tons.
        Well here again
        Flight performance
        Crew 7
        Wingspan, m 88.4
        Length, m 84
        Height, m ​​18.2
        Wing area, m2 905
        Empty weight, kg 250 000
        Maximum take-off weight, kg 640 000
        The draft is unsafe, kgf 1377
        Normal fuel mass, kg 300 000
        Cruising speed, km / h 850
        Practical range, km 15 400
        Practical range with maximum load, km 4500
        Practical ceiling, m 11 000
        Payload to 250 000 kg of cargo
        Again, adding up the mass of an empty plane, the mass of fuel and the payload, we get 800 tons. With a maximum take-off weight of 640 tons: ((
    2. Corsair
      Corsair 11 February 2016 10: 37 New
      0
      Quote: Seal
      So what ? 1000 tons of payload is also a lot.

      But do you imagine the dimensions of this unit and in what weather can it be used?
      For example, the Australians came up with:
      SkyLifter - airship plate with a capacity of 150 tons

      To match the incredible severity of the lifted loads, this airship has truly titanic dimensions. The diameter of the balloon is 150 meters. The thickness of the disc in the center is about 40 m. The habitable capsule in diameter reaches 15 meters, and the total height of the apparatus is 120 m.
      Source "MEMBRANA", dated October 5, 2010

      Only 150 tons! And 2000 tons - it will be corn in half a kilometer long, which means pusher engines (no less than 6-8 pieces in size, turbines or turboprops) will have to plow incredibly and as much as 70 percent of the fuel does not eat up the lift.
  25. Winnie76
    Winnie76 10 February 2016 23: 21 New
    0
    100 tons - 1000 tons - 100500 tons, in the near future unrealistic. You have to start small. For starters, something like an AFAR from Su 35 kilometers to raise 10. It’s possible in a tethered version ... So that not a single KR would slip ... That would be the thing
  26. Zomanus
    Zomanus 11 February 2016 06: 02 New
    0
    Interesting thing.
    It is possible to replace the northern delivery directly with the transfer
    from the Trans-Siberian to the arctic coast.
    And along the coast also scatter airships.