In the Crimea, plan to install pointers with historical names of settlements

Historical the names of 1394 settlements of the Crimean peninsula are planned to be added to the existing names. Such a decision was made at a meeting of the commission for the restoration of the rights of rehabilitated victims of political repression, reports RIA News.

“The project provides for the addition of pre-war names to the existing names of settlements, as well as the installation of additional indexes in 335 village councils and 1059 in other settlements of the republic,” the republican government said.

The deputy head of the Crimean government, Ruslan Balbek, called the decision "historic, which will help avoid controversy and discrepancies with the subsequent addition of historical names."

The project will also be reviewed by a government commission.

“The Commission will review the prepared draft of the installation of new signs this month. Financing of the project will be mainly from extra-budgetary funds, the volume will be indicated after the adoption of a single sample of the index, which will be the current name of the settlement and its historical name. It will be written in Cyrillic, ”said Balbec.

According to him, this project has already "supported the committee of the Crimean Tatar youth and youth organizations of other nationalities of the peninsula."

Balbek is sure that “information on the pre-war names of villages and cities will increase the tourist attractiveness of the Crimea.”

The toponymy of the peninsula has undergone great changes after the deportation of the Crimean Tatars to 1944.

Comments

[brasist]

Former owners took up the renaming and these too. What all the obstacles eliminated?

[milann]

And there’s nothing more to do.
So you can rename the whole of Russia.
In Ukraine, renamed.

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: milann

So you can rename the whole of Russia.
In Ukraine, renamed.

There was an article here yesterday - http://topwar.ru/90470-ehidnye-kommentarii-krym-na-globuse-ukrainy-kak-podtverzh

denie-diagnoza.html and everyone laughed together as Ukraine renames cities in Russia. We laughed, but there, on the arch, apparently they do not laugh, but decided to help them ....

I remember that in the early 2000s I arrived in Saratov at the consulate for a visa to Germany. The owner of the apartment, where I stayed for 3 days, told how local, Saratov, Germans per night on the central street. Karl Marx was hanged under the name of the street, signs in German - "Karl-Marx-Straße". In the morning I saw Ayatskov - they removed it in an hour and a half. A good example of a prompt response to the national identity of the masses ...

I understand that Europe is not a decree for us, but good points need to be studied and adopted. So here Spain, for example, with its turbulent history. Over the past 400 years in Madrid not renamed a single street (read somewhere).

There is a name - you need to get used to and live with it. And then how the government has changed - so let's rename "Red Sickle" to Mindyukino ... Invented - thermidor, fruktidor, messidor, descendants for fun ....

[Baikonur]

Well, it still happens, for example, that the first (historical) name is more suitable and reflects the history of the foundation of us. paragraph, and it was once renamed so that now this name as they say - neither to the village, nor to the city! Here and return. I see nothing wrong! And in (in) Ukraine, they invent a lot of crap in many ways, and vice versa they do not assign historical names, because many n.p. historically Russian or Soviet! A big difference!

[The black]

It is about installing signs with historical names, rather than renaming settlements.

[aleks 62 next]

... We are talking about the installation of signs with historical names, rather than renaming settlements ....

... And it is necessary ???? .... Money (federal) has nowhere to spend ???? .....

[alex-s]

As I understand it, everything is fine in Crimea already! They are looking for where else to spend money!

[avdkrd]

Quote: alex-s

As I understand it, everything is fine in Crimea already! They are looking for where else to spend money!

Only from the Crimea. Shocked by the fact that even in Simferopol road signs are in an ugly state, there are still signs and signs on the mov. It turned out to be a problem to get to the airport without a navigator. The same thing in state institutions - there are instructions, work procedures at the stands in the Ukrainian language, respectively, the instructions themselves are the same Ukrainian.
What kind of commission is there such for the restoration of the rights of rehabilitated victims of political repression ??? Whether the repressions of the Tatars were political or, as I think, deserved for serving the fascists, it doesn't matter, we live together. Rehabilitated Tatars - good, but why bite off to the elbow? The truth is nothing to do. Off-budget funds in translation mean either voluntary-compulsory "donations" from merchants, or the development of the money of a certain sponsor with certain goals. Well, there is no acute issue in the Crimean society about historical names, therefore the purpose of such tablets is known only to the initiators. It would be better if the funds for this were budgetary, it would be clear that they are simply sawing this very budget.

[Patton5]

there are still signs and signs on the mov. It turned out to be a problem to get to the airport without a navigator. The same thing in state institutions - there are instructions, work procedures on stands in Ukrainian

So in Crimea there are three state languages ​​(Russian, Ukrainian, Crimean Tatar)

[The black]

In 150 settlements of the Republic of Crimea, public organizations for extrabudgetary funds tablets with historical names will be installed, said Deputy Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the Republic of Kazakhstan Ruslan Balbek

[vorobey]

Quote: Black

for extrabudgetary funds

repeat this once again for those who are especially understanding ... who don’t know and did not delve into the history of Crimea don’t understand ... That Simferopol is the capital of the Scythian state of Naples and later Simferopol, from the Greek "city of good", the name of the city is given by the reprint of Catherine II in February 1784, before that the settlement was called Ak-Mosque. The administrative, industrial and cultural center of Crimea.

Ak kaya in the Belogorsky district, translated from the Crimean Tatar White Rock. (Remember the movie Headless Horseman? )

Kil-Burun, a village, now Pioneer.

Inkerman, from the Greek "white stone", is now the city of Belokamensk near Sevastopol.
Kara-Su-Bazar, translated from the Crimean Tatar "city on the black river", is now Belogorsk.

and many many other names that explain the origin of cities and villages

[Corporal Valera]

Quote: vorobey

Repeat this again for the very understanding ...

I’m especially helpful. What then funds? Balbek from the salary will finance? Or in the summer on churchkhela raised the dough? Maybe it's better to buy traffic signs then?

Quote: vorobey

Kara-Su-Bazar, translated from the Crimean Tatar "city on the black river", is now Belogorsk.

But I like Belogorsk more than all sorts of bazaars. Is this a thick hint of subtle circumstances? Like the whole land here has its OWN, NOT RUSSIAN, names. It is time, in my opinion, for the competent authorities to check: who, for what purpose and with whose funds is implementing the initiatives so "necessary" for Crimea. And the identified comrades should be sent to Nenka, let them be creative there.

[vorobey]

Quote: Corporal Valera

I’m especially helpful.

I respect self-criticism ..

Quote: Corporal Valera

But I like Belogorsk more than any bazaars.

I, for one, too, for example, but nevertheless this is a story ... Brave troops know about the village of Ak Monay - where is it and what a glorious episode of the history of the Airborne Forces is connected with this?

[Corporal Valera]

Quote: vorobey

Me, too, for example, but nevertheless this is a story ...

Yes, it's all wonderful! History and all that. I often go past all sorts of JARVES and YOKI. Same story however. 76 years is already our land, and it seems that Finland has gone astray and got into it. What is this for? So that local questions do not arise on whose land they live? And in the case of a weak central government, did some stubborn Fin, according to history, demand his back-up?

[evge-malyshev]

Quote: Black

tablets with historical names will be installed, said Deputy Chairman of the Council of Ministers of the Republic of Kazakhstan Ruslan Balbek

One name in the Crimean Tatar language, although written in Cyrillic, still does not say anything to a Russian person. If this plaque with the historical name of a given settlement was accompanied by relevant (significant) information, it would be commendable. But then the question arises: where to get the money? And there will be a lot of them: find the "authors" of historical information, write, make these tablets, they must be readable, installed, etc. etc.
Otherwise, either "money down the drain" or someone wanted to "warm their hands" by the fire of "historical justice".

[Diana Ilyina]

Quote: Black

It is about installing signs with historical names, rather than renaming settlements.

You know, there is no smoke without fire! First, tablets with historical names, then renaming. What we don’t know how quietly collapsed our education, then we distorted the story, then we’ll also quietly increase the retirement age!

The only city to which I would return the historical name is Stalingrad! Yes, yes, it was Stalingrad, not Tsaritsin! The whole world knew this city as Stalingrad, and at least for the sake of the memory of those who died there, this glorious name must be returned to this city!

[The black]

You contradict yourself ...

First, tablets with historical names, then renaming. What we don’t know how quietly collapsed our education, then we distorted the story, then we’ll also quietly increase the retirement age!

.. ... although I am for renaming Volgograd to Stalingrad ... But there will surely be another person who wants to rename something else .... No need to complicate it. Here we are only talking about tablets with the historical name of a particular locality. I think tourists will be interested.

[aleks 62 next]

.... I think tourists will be interested ...

... Yes ... Especially if the guide tells about the "exploits" of their recent ancestors during the Second World War .... Well, it will be very interesting .... By the way, they themselves really don't like to talk about it ...

[vorobey]

Quote: aleks 62 next

.... I think tourists will be interested ...... Yes ... Especially if the guide tells about the "exploits" of their recent ancestors during the Second World War .... Well, it will be very interesting .... By the way, they themselves are not very love to talk about it ...

my wife has a Crimean Tatar grandmother, a Russian grandfather .. she carried him wounded from Sevastopol along the coast saving from the Germans .. so no need for exploits ...

During the war, Lieutenant General Ablyakim Gafarov was the chairman of the heroic defense committee of Stalingrad, was awarded four orders of Lenin, and headed the defense department of the Central Committee of the party. In this post, he was replaced by the future Minister of Defense of the USSR Dmitry Ustinov. According to unofficial data, 60 thousand Crimean Tatars went to the front, 20 thousand of which died. These figures for the people, whose number in those years was a little more than 200 thousand, make you think.
Amet Khan Sultan. Twice Hero of the USSR. He died in the 70s when testing new equipment. Gagarin after his flight specifically met with him. I did not receive the third star due to nationality.

[aleks 62 next]

..... According to unofficial data, 60 thousand Crimean Tatars went to the front, 20 thousand of which died. These figures for the people, whose number in those years was a little more than 200 thousand, make you think ...

... They also had heroes (in the literal sense of the word) .... But unfortunately there were only a few ... And as for the number of those who went to the front, 51 army was completed in Crimea almost all of the local residents (including from the Crimean Tatars) .... After the Germans moved to Sevastopol, almost the whole thing deserted ..... Unfortunately, but a fact .... More: http: //evpatoriya-history.info/natsionalnij-vopros/tatari-v-velikoj -otechestven
noj-vojne.php

[vorobey]

[quote = aleks 62 next] ..... Unfortunately, but true ....


read the composition and combat path of the 51st army ...

“... the units of the Red Army, equipped with Crimean Tatars, were not combat-ready, and after the Germans entered the peninsula, the vast majority of their personnel deserted. That's what this is said about in the memorandum of the Deputy People's Commissar of the USSR State Security B.Z. Kobulov and Deputy People's Commissar of Internal Affairs of the USSR I.A. Serov in the name of L.P. Beria, dated April 22, 1944: “... all drafted into the Red Army amounted to 90 thousand people, including 20 thousand Crimean Tatars ... 20 thousand Crimean Tatars were deserted in 1941 from the 51st Army when it retreated from the Crimea ... "
The author of the book cites the same idea in a published lengthy interview: “After the outbreak of World War II, many Crimean Tatars were drafted into the Red Army. However, their service was short-lived. As the front approached Crimea, desertion and surrender among them took on a massive scale. From among the Tatars who surrendered in Ukraine and other fronts, agents were trained who were thrown into the Crimea to strengthen anti-Soviet, defeatist and pro-fascist agitation. As a result, units of the Red Army, equipped with Crimean Tatars, were not combat-ready, and after the Germans entered the peninsula, the vast majority of their personnel deserted. "
This figure is 20 thousand Crimean Tatars, who allegedly defected, and then entered into various formations of the invaders, were cited by almost all Soviet historians. Even today, in a post-communist society, this lie still appears to be in demand. What is surprising is that so far no one has ever tried to subject it to at least an elementary analysis.

The calculator is also a history tool

First of all, it is noteworthy that this information was first announced not at the end of 1941 or in 1942, which is called, in hot pursuit, but after 2,5 years, literally on the eve of deportation. Nevertheless, let's try to take it seriously and try to highlight the main aspects. 1. From the Crimea, 90 thousand people were drafted into the army. 2. Crimean Tatars, conscripts amounted to 20 thousand. 3. In the 51st army 20 thousand Crimean Tatars served. 4. All Crimean Tatars who served in the 51st Army deserted (?!).
Let us analyze these figures. It is no secret that on the eve of the war, 542211 men lived on the peninsula. Of these, 238 thousand aged 18 to 45 years. Their ethnic composition is also known: Russians - 80061, Ukrainians - 26382, Crimean Tatars - 15938, Jews - 8480, Germans - 3959.
On the very first day of the war - June 22, 1941 - mobilization of fourteen ages (b. 1905 - 1918) was announced, and, according to a researcher such as Vladimir Broshevan, “by the middle of August 1941 they left the Crimea for front 74240 people. These were people aged 23 to 36 years, since the contingent aged 19 to 22 years old was already in the army on military service. ” The usual school proportion shows that if 14 soldiers and commanders gave 72 draft ages, then 4 pre-war calls were about 21 thousand Crimeans who were in the Red Army at the time the war started, which generally corresponds to the statement that out of Crimea were called up 90 thousand people. But were these people in the Crimea?
From the first years of Soviet power, the leaders of the Red Army realized that the soldiers of the Red Army should not serve in their native places, because if troops are involved to suppress popular uprisings, they massively go over to the side of fellow countrymen. That is why conscripts from Crimea left their native peninsula without fail, and we can say with all responsibility that all Crimeans between the ages of 18 and 36 were already on different fronts by August 1941 and did not have the fate of the 51st Army no relation.

http://d-v-sokolov.livejournal.com/120501.html

[vorobey]

“Powerful” 51st Army

All documents indicate that the 51st separate army defended Crimea from the enemy on the rights of the front, and only in some places the 9th corps is mentioned. What kind of connection is this, and from what units was this army formed?

The history of this formation began on August 14, 1941 with one very important document:

August 14, 1941 22 h 00 min

1. For the defense of Crimea, on the basis of the 9th Corps, form the 51st Separate Army (on the front) with direct subordination to the Supreme High Command. I appoint Colonel General Kuznetsov, Deputy. army commander - Major General Batov. Army Headquarters - Simferopol region.

2. The tasks assigned to the army:

a) to prevent the enemy from entering the territory of the Crimean peninsula from land, from the sea and air;
b) to keep the Crimean peninsula in our hands until the last soldier;
c) the actions of the Black Sea Fleet to forbid the approach and landing on the Crimean peninsula of enemy assault forces.

3. In the combat strength of the troops of the newly formed 51st Sep. Army include the 106th, 156th, 271th and 276th pages of the division, 40th, 42nd and 48th cav. divisions.

4. The Commander of the 51st Army in operational terms to subordinate the Black Sea Fleet in relation to the performance of tasks related to the defense of Crimea.

5. Military Council 51st Sep. army:

a) through the appeal of the human resources of Crimea until 1895 inclusively form two or three rifle divisions and the required number of armored sites;

b) immediately deploy, with the involvement of the local population, engineering work to strengthen the defense of the peninsula, firmly closing the paths to the peninsula with the front to the north at the borders: - Yuzkui, art. Novoalekseevka, Lublinka on the Isthmus of Chongar; Pervokonstantinovka, TSW Rates on the Perekop Isthmus; northern tip of the Arabat Spit, Tyup-Dzhankoy, Art. Sivash, Tazanay, J-Tugan, Tomashevka, Brulevka, Urzhin, Ishun;

c) immediately clear the territory of the peninsula of local residents - Germans and other anti-Soviet elements;

d) for the organization of the defense of Crimea to use all the material means of the peninsula. Evacuate all valuable and unnecessary for defense.

6. Zam. In the near future, NPO General Lieutenant Aviation Zhigarev will replenish the regiment of the Crimean DB to full staff and strengthen the aviation of the army with two fighter regiments.

7.Getting confirmed.

Supreme Commander I. STALIN Chief of the General Staff B. SHAPOSHNIKOV

[vorobey]

The document is more than interesting. Let's start with the first paragraph. With the creation of the 51st Army, General P.I. Batov, who previously commanded all troops on the peninsula, became the deputy of another General F.I. Kuznetsov, who was also a participant in the fighting in Spain and Finland. Apparently this was the reason for the emergence of hostility and undercover struggle between the 51st commander and his deputy. Colonel-General Kuznetsov was older in rank, but for F.I. Kuznetsov this appointment was a kind of demotion. Previously, he commanded the troops of the Baltic Military District, and arrived in Crimea after their defeat by German troops.

The document mentions five more divisions that arrived in the Crimea from August 1 to August 14, 1941. Five divisions is a considerable force, but let us consider what these parts were. The 271st division was created in July 1941, in the Oryol Military District, and arrived in Crimea almost untrained, with an unknown amount of personnel, artillery and transport.

About the same was the 276th division, formed near Chernigov. But among them there were almost fifteen thousand fighters, even untrained and not knocked together. And, now, in the composition of all three cavalry divisions, there were ... less than seven thousand people. Those. as much as was to be part of the same cavalry division of the pre-war formation. The fact is that they belonged to the number of so-called “light” divisions. Typically, the number of such a division ranged from 2 to 3 thousand people. Moreover, they were formed, as a rule, from drafted ages.

The 48th division (commander Major General Averkin) was formed in Poltava. In its composition there were only about 2 thousand horsemen.

The 42nd division (commander Colonel Glagolev) was formed in Krasnodar. It consisted of 2,5 thousand soldiers and commanders.

The 40th division (commander Colonel Kudyurov) was formed in the village of Kushchevskaya in the Krasnodar Territory. 2,5 thousand horsemen.

The fact that the divisions were formed from non-conscription ages means that they were voluntary, and most of the personnel in them were either boys under 17 years old or old men over 64 years old. The mobilization resources of the Kuban and Poltava were completely exhausted. Upon arrival in Crimea, the divisions were understaffed with personnel, equipment and horses at the expense of local resources. But even after that, they included a little more than eight thousand.

For us, in the Betting document, point 5a is interesting. The fact is that, according to the mobilization plan, Crimea already gave the Soviet Union 156 thousand soldiers of draft age (from 1881 to 1912, inclusive), and only those who were not subject to mobilization in the army in accordance with the mobilization plans were left on the peninsula. The basis of the newly formed divisions were people aged 30 to 60 years. Actually, many fighters of the 1st and 2nd Crimean divisions were over fifty.

A week after the rate directive, on August 21, 1941, a mobilization plan for creating new divisions was released:
http://www.litsovet.ru/index.php/material.read?material_id=302698

[aleks 62 next]

.... Very informative .... But your link "http://dv-sokolov.livejournal.com/120501.html" is somehow frivolous ..... In my link there is a list of documents and books (and post-Soviet too ) .... you would have posted material from Wikipedia ...

[vorobey]

Quote: aleks 62 next

..... In my link there is a list of documents and books (and post-Soviet ones too) ....

By the way, from your list of books is a quote from an article.

During the German occupation, a significant part of the Bulgarian population took an active part in the activities carried out by the Germans for the procurement of bread and food for the German army, and assisted the German military authorities in identifying and detaining Red Army soldiers and Soviet partisans. For the assistance provided to the German occupiers, the Bulgarians received from the German command the so-called “protective certificates”, which indicated that the identity and property of such a Bulgarian was protected by the German authorities and was threatened with execution by assault.

The Germans organized police detachments from the Bulgarians, and also recruited the Bulgarian population for sending them to work in Germany and to serve in the German army.

The Greek population lives in most parts of Crimea. A significant part of the Greeks, especially in coastal cities, with the advent of the invaders engaged in trade and small industry. German authorities assisted the Greeks in trade, transportation of goods, etc.

The Armenian population lives in most regions of Crimea. There are no large settlements with the Armenian population. Organized by the Germans, the “Armenian Committee” actively assisted the Germans and carried out great anti-Soviet work. In the mountains. Simferopol existed the German intelligence organization Dromedar, led by the former Dashnak general Dro, who led intelligence work against the Red Army and for this purpose created several Armenian committees for espionage and subversion in the rear of the Red Army and to facilitate the organization of voluntary Armenian legions.

The Armenian national committees, with the active participation of emigrants arriving from Berlin and Istanbul, carried out work to promote "independent Armenia."

There were so-called “Armenian religious communities”, which, in addition to religious and political issues, organized trade and small-scale industry among Armenians. These organizations assisted the Germans, especially by raising funds “for the military needs” of Germany.

The Armenian organizations formed the so-called “Armenian Legion”, which was maintained at the expense of the Armenian communities.

The NKVD of the USSR considers it appropriate to carry out evictions from the territory of Crimea of ​​all Bulgarians, Greeks, Armenians ”[45].

As a result, on June 2, 1944, GKO Decree No. 5984ss was adopted on the eviction of Bulgarians, Greeks, and Armenians from the territory of the Crimean Autonomous Soviet Socialist Republic. The eviction was scheduled to take place from July 1 to July 5 [46].

Summing up the results of eviction operations from the Crimea, Beria reported to Stalin on July 5, 1944:

“In pursuance of your instructions, the NKVD – NKGB of the USSR during the period from April to July this year the territory of Crimea was cleared of anti-Soviet, espionage elements, and Crimean Tatars, Bulgarians, Greeks, Armenians, and persons of foreign citizenship were evicted to the eastern regions of the Soviet Union.


and only Tatars are to blame ... this is serious..

[aleks 62 next]

.... but only Tatars are to blame ... lol this is serious ..

.. You don’t have to mock .... It is very good that you noticed that not only Tatars collaborated with the Germans .... But somehow the rest (Greeks, Armenians ...) did not oppose and did not stick out all the post-war time. ... They just lived and worked like ALL the rest .... By the way, this is not one link to such material, I can still throw it .... At one time (the end of the 80s, in the 90s) I became interested in this topic to understand for myself ... And in general I dug up a lot of information from different sources .... But now it’s not about history, but about the names of settlements ... It was surprising number HONORS - about 1400 ... Background gives about 1100 .... Here is a surprise !!!! .... All polls ????

[vorobey]

Quote: aleks 62 next

.... By the way, this is not one link to such material, I can still throw it.

It’s not necessary ... I myself know the Crimea quite well the wife of a native of Sevastopol and her relatives are all in Crimea, and since the time of service, not only Sevastopol and Yevpatoria but the Angarsk Pass with Kerch all crawled ... so you reduced everything to the national question I answered you ... it’s not good to share Judas everywhere enough ..

[aleks 62 next]

..... you have reduced everything to a national question, I answered you ....

... Unfortunately, our whole life is a national issue .... And all the more so because it is constantly accentuated and warmed up by their "professional" actions by some ...

[vorobey]

Quote: aleks 62 next

.... And all the more so because it is constantly accentuated and warmed up by their "professional" actions by some

again some are to blame only not ourselves ...

And what is the difference then explain to me ... exaggeratedly

The Russians rose in the Donbass because they tried to take away the language (including on the tablets and signs), because they tried to take away the history and roots ... and here everything seems to be working correctly ... besides, it’s not only about Tatar names but also Greek and Scythian or how ...

Then I was equated to the Natsik Ukrops for the fact that about the death of American pilots he said that I do not care about them, but here it seems like a whole nation is being rinsed with a "good word" and this is kind of the norm ... Son for the father?

do you know the parable about the measure?

one poor man and his wife made cheese and handed it over to a rich man at the Grocery. exchanging for food there and buying something else ... he handed over circles of cheese with a measure of one kilogram .. once a rich man suspected and weighed cheese - the circle turned out to be exactly 900 grams ...

he began shouting at the poor man that he was deceiving him, to which the poor man answered him - my wife and I are poor people and we do not have weights. but somehow I bought sugar from you and made it a measure for cheese ...

by what measure should the Tatars measure the Russians?

[aleks 62 next]

..... And what is the difference then explain to me ... exaggeratedly


... Everything is simple .... Live like ALL the rest, without requiring any preferences from the rest and at the expense of the others .... Do not stand out and do not give yourself exceptionalism ..... And you (or rather) will be happy ....

[vorobey]

Quote: aleks 62 next

..... And what is the difference then explain to me ... exaggerated ... Everything is simple .... Live like ALL the rest, not requiring any preferences from the others and at the expense of the others .... Do not stand out and do not endow yourself with exclusivity ..... And you (or rather, them) will be happy ....

Can this be considered your official appeal to the residents of Donbass?

Well, logically ... it turns out so? or can russian?



Who in the days of Ukraine and why the Tatars mutilated in Crimea, I also know

[aleks 62 next]

.... This can be considered your official appeal to the residents of Donbass? ...

.... And what does Donbass have to do with it ???? .... My answer, you are higher, concerns the so-called "deported" .... There is a separate topic in Donbass and it has already been discussed ...

[vorobey]

Quote: aleks 62 next

.... What does Donbass have to do with it ???? .... My answer, you are higher, concerns the so-called "deported" .... The Donbass is a separate topic and has already been talked about.

i am capable I understand you .. but then, according to your logic, the same cannot be said to Russians in the Donbass ... besides, before raising a storm in a glass as a true Crimean, you probably should have understood the essence that there are no major cities on the list and it’s not about renaming ..

http://gkmn.rk.gov.ru/rus/file/Toponimika_krymskih_sel_i_gorodov.pdf

by the way there are both German and Bulgarian names

[Stas157]

Quote: aleks 62 next

... They also had heroes (in the literal sense of the word) .... But unfortunately, there are only a few ...

Well yes! Manstein also recalled how their Crimean Tatars complacently accepted. And if we talk about the trend, then the Crimean Tatars, undoubtedly this is a weak link. Start a war with Turkey, whom will this people support?

[user]

Amet Khan Sultan.

Amet Khan Sultan is a small exception.

[evge-malyshev]

Quote: Black

Here we are talking only about tablets with the historical name of a particular locality.

And what is the use of this historical name? The name should give some KNOWLEDGE! It seems that there are no more problems in Crimea.

[common man]

Quote: Black

Here we are talking only about tablets with the historical name of a particular locality

How historical? There, many settlements have a history going back to ancient Greece and deeper. Changed dozens of times. Greek, Roman, Scythian, Tatar, Russian. Ukrainian. As I understand it, the initiative comes from the Crimean Tatar part of the population. And to make the Tatar names historical. And then somewhere out there in the "democratic" part of the world they will scream that only the Tatars are the legitimate masters of the Crimea (not counting the dill, which poured the peninsula when they dug the Black Sea), and the Russian invaders. And they will stick with these signs. I have nothing against the Crimean Tatar people, just let’s not give a reason for speculation, don’t rush. I’m almost sure. that money from "off-budget funds" comes from Turkey or Kiev.
PS There are still half of the pointers in Ukrainian. better replace them with the state one.

[Corporal Valera]

Quote: Black

Here we are only talking about tablets with the historical name of a particular locality. I think tourists will be interested

I immediately remember how many copies were broken because of "just plates" in the Latin alphabet in Minsk. They also explained that everything is for tourists (hockey). Nothing personal, just signs.

[Stas157]

Quote: Diana Ilyina

The only city to which I would return the historical name is Stalingrad!

With two hands for !!! Moreover, this name is not associated with the name of Stalin, but the fact that it was there, in Stalingrad, that a turning point occurred in the entire 2nd World War! In 1942, the whole world watched with aspiration what events unfolded in Stalingrad, where in the end they broke the ridge of the fascist beast! We must return the name to the city of our valiant, military glory!

[An64]

It is about installing signs with historical names, rather than renaming settlements

This is the first step, very similar to "flirting" with the Crimean Tatars. And to "flirt" with the Kiev Crimean Tatars, with the help of which the spiral of renaming everything and everyone is unwound, including in the Crimea.

[Diana Ilyina]

Quote: An64

This is the first step, very similar to "flirting" with the Crimean Tatars. And to "flirt" with the Kiev Crimean Tatars, with the help of which the spiral of renaming everything and everyone is unwound, including in the Crimea.

I agree with you, this is really only the first step! Now they will follow the Crimean Tatars' occasion, once, then they will make some more concessions, and then they, with their demands on us, will sit on our heads and hang their legs!

Too much honor is given to this people! It’s enough that they were rehabilitated, and in my opinion in vain! Comrade Stalin knew what he was doing, and if he decided to repress them, then there was a reason! I do not blame all Crimean Tatars without exception, God forbid. Among any people there are black sheep and among Russians there are no less than among others! It is just these black sheep that stir up water, and do not allow others to live normally and calmly!

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: Black

It is about installing signs with historical names, rather than renaming settlements.

From small begins. Try asking the CIA about it - they will tell you how the death of huge states begins with a very small wormhole. Jeans, 50 varieties of sausages, vidiki-shmidiki ... Nothing, of course, they are not bad, I myself have been wearing jeans for almost 50 years, but for me jeans are not my Motherland! And for soft brains, any discontent, any "across" is a reason. First a trifle, then more, and then a big boo-boo!

And then a generation will grow up that will call Sevastopol Akhtiar and say that "this is the historical truth" ...

On figs we have such "truth"? And someone really needs it. Those who disagree (for ANY reason) - this is the enemy’s military reserve ... Of these, he recruits supporters. And, surprisingly, jeans and sausage, too ...

[The black]

You try to ask the CIA about this - they will tell you how the death of huge states begins with a very small wormhole.

..And that, there is a multi-channel telephone open where they answer questions of Russian citizens .. ... phone do not tell me?

[Zoldat_A]

Quote: Black

You try to ask the CIA about this - they will tell you how the death of huge states begins with a very small wormhole.

..And that, there is a multi-channel telephone open where they answer questions of Russian citizens .. ... phone do not tell me?

Hypothetically, respected, purely hypothetically ...

In general, you don’t need to go to America to talk to CIA staff -

US Embassy in Moscow

Bolshoi Devyatinsky per., 8
Moscow 121099, Russian Federation
Tel: [phone], Fax: [phone]

Just do not forget, instead of "hello", to scold VVP, Russia and praise the United States and the Great Ape personally - and communicate with the CIA officers - easily!

[Homo]

Quote: Black

It is about installing signs with historical names, rather than renaming settlements.

Everything would be fine. But in a strange way, this initiative coincided with the desire of Kiev to rename the cities in the Crimea! Maybe the Crimean Tatars got too many rights (or take on more than they should)? So they can get "I nominated you, I push you" or "I gave birth to you, I will kill you!"

[alexmach]

And this is almost 2 \ 3 renaming

[Finches]

A lot of hohlism remained in the officials of the Crimea ... But there are no more problems!

[RUSS]

Quote: brasist

Former owners took up the renaming and these too. What all the obstacles eliminated?

Disputes may arise, since many cities have both Greek, Roman and Bosporus past, what about this? The Greeks, too, can quite rightly add the sign "Chersonesus" next to Corson, after all, it was their distant ancestors who founded the city, which later became known as Corson, there are dozens if not hundreds of examples ...

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: RUSS

as many cities have a Greek, Roman and Bosporus past

They forgot to remember the Russian past. I propose to rename Sudak (and there are a lot of Crimean Tatars there) to rename to the original Surozhand Kerch in Korchev.

[vorobey]

Quote: Ingvar 72

and Kerch in Korchev.

and assign him the title city of the hero of Russia .. didn’t think about these

[but still]

Quote: RUSS

Quote: brasist

Former owners took up the renaming and these too. What all the obstacles eliminated?

Disputes may arise, since many cities have both Greek, Roman and Bosporus past, what about this? The Greeks, too, can quite rightly add the sign "Chersonesus" next to Corson, after all, it was their distant ancestors who founded the city, which later became known as Corson, there are dozens if not hundreds of examples ...

Correctly! The historical names of the inhabited places should be added - this will also contribute to tourism. And Bulgarian place names - Bulgarians, after all, lived there, it was proved back in the 4th century and in the 7th century (see Ancient Great Bulgaria of Kubrat), and during the Khazar Khaganate, Bulgarians made up about 60% of the population, as well as Alans, ancestors of Ossetians and other peoples (see works of Russian scientists). And later, the Bulgarians inhabited Crimea (see the deportation of Crimean Bulgarians by Stalin).

[user]

The toponymy of the peninsula has undergone great changes after the deportation of the Crimean Tatars to 1944.

Or maybe all the same has undergone major changes after the massive transition of the Crimean Tatars to the side of the enemy in wartime. Why engage in demagogy.

[code54]

And who is this Balbek? Push your laws along the Tatar line, some more tablets! And then the Ukrainians say, renamed!
What's the catch in general? In all of Russia, too, the historical begin to set, in all autonomies and regions?
In Crimea, I have enough translations of pointers into Tatar, as well as old hoh lyatsky!

[70BSN]

And this is because all the bureaucrats see that Uncle Vova will not punish anyone, but only gives the director the position !!!

Kiss those on the whole team of Uncle Vova himself ....

[crambol]

Please restore the old name of the railway station Aivazovskaya near Feodosia - SARYGOL. At the beginning of the last century, my grandfather, the Black Sea Greek Ivan Androsov, was the head of this station.

[gray smeet]

Keywords in the article (at the very end!):

The toponymy of the peninsula has undergone great changes after the deportation of the Crimean Tatars to 1944.


The next step: after making changes to the name of the Settlements, people use only historical names - hence remove the names of the Soviet period!

[Proxima]

Quote: gray smeet

Keywords in the article (at the very end!):

The toponymy of the peninsula has undergone great changes after the deportation of the Crimean Tatars to 1944.

What, the guilt complex in front of the Crimean Tatars appeared, decided to bend? The main thing is that they would feel guilty for the atrocities that they committed during the occupation. Why spend money on signs, it is better to turn to Akhejakva - she will tearfully apologize.

[Marconi41]

Quote: gray smeet

hence remove the names of the Soviet period!

I don’t get it either. Our Ukrainians want to get ahead? Or is this a hohlyat struggle with the Soviet legacy? Strange somehow ...

[beck]

and what’s just the name, let’s immediately at the same time we tumble down the monuments to Lenin and paint the fences in the necessary two colors, walk like walk
but seriously, the initiator of this project, you need to take a good look at who works for

[aleks 62 next]

.... after the deportation of the Crimean Tatars in 1944 ...

... There was no deportation .... There was resettlement .... No need to distort the concepts ..... Yes, and "deported" not to Kolyma, but to sunny Uzbekistan .... I can remind you that children and residents from the besieged Leningrad they were taken out not somewhere, namely to Uzbekistan (far from the war, warm and quite bread) ... Almost a resort .... So, the "deported" there was very good (they are now longing for that life remember for the most part) ...

[gray smeet]

Quote: aleks 62 next

.... after the deportation of the Crimean Tatars in 1944 ...

... There was no deportation .... There was a relocation .... N

It is relocation! Crimean fighters and Crimean partisans who returned from the front could make a lot of noise in the villages of Crimean Tatars.

[RUSS]

Quote: aleks 62 next

.... after the deportation of the Crimean Tatars in 1944 ...... There was no deportation .... There was a relocation

Dangerous substitution of concepts.

[aleks 62 next]

... Dangerous substitution of concepts ....

.... Deportation - expulsion beyond the borders of the country ..... And inside - this is relocation .... Purely legal concepts ....

[vorobey]

Quote: aleks 62 next

... Dangerous substitution of concepts ....

.... Deportation - expulsion beyond the borders of the country ..... And inside - this is relocation .... Purely legal concepts ....

you yourself do not engage in substitution ...

Deportation (lat. Deportatio - expulsion, expulsion) - forced expulsion of a person or a whole category of persons to another state or other locality, usually under guard. [1]

[RUSS]

Quote: aleks 62 next

..... And they were "deported" not to Kolyma, but to sunny Uzbekistan ...

"A trip to sunny Uzbekistan"
A significant number of immigrants, exhausted after three years of living in the Crimea occupied by Germans, died in places of expulsion from hunger and disease in 1944-45 due to the lack of normal living conditions (in the first years people lived in barracks and dugouts, did not have enough food and access to health care) [. Estimates of the number of deaths during this period vary greatly: from 15-25% according to various Soviet official bodies to 46% according to the estimates of activists of the Crimean Tatar movement who collected information about those who died in the 1960s. So, according to the OSB of the Uzbek SSR, only “for 6 months of 1944, that is, from the moment of arrival in the Uzbek SSR until the end of the year, 16 052 people died. (10,6%) ”[20]. For 12 years until 1956, the Crimean Tatars had the status of special settlers, implying various restrictions on their rights, in particular the prohibition of unauthorized (without the written permission of the special commandant's office) crossing the border of the special settlement and criminal punishment for its violation. There are numerous cases where people were sentenced to long-term (up to 25 years) prison camps for visiting relatives in neighboring villages whose territory belonged to another special settlement
The Crimean Tatars, who fought in parts of the Red Army, were also subjected to administrative expulsion after demobilization [12] [13]. There are known exceptions when officers from among the Crimean Tatars were not deported to places of deportation as special resettlers (for example, pilots Amet Khan Sultan and Emir Usein Chalbash), but they were forbidden to live in Crimea. In total, from 1945 to 1946, 8995 Crimean Tatars, participants in the war, were sent to special settlements, including 524 officers and 1392 sergeants. [14] In 1952 (after the famine that claimed many lives in 1945), only in Uzbekistan, according to the NKVD, there were 6057 participants in the war, many of whom had high government awards.

[aleks 62 next]

.... "A trip to sunny Uzbekistan" ...

... The opinion is not mine .... But: "... There is no place here to analyze in detail the reasons and consequences of the deportation carried out in the conditions of the most merciless and cruel confrontation between Russia and the West; it is enough, I think, to quote the words of the remarkable publicist Sergei Kara-Murza (whose ancestors, by the way, were Crimean Tatars): “This type of punishment, heavy for everyone, was a salvation from death for a large part of men, and therefore for an ethnic group. If ... judged individually according to the laws of wartime, it turned out would be ethnocide - the loss of such a significant part of young men would undermine the demographic potential of the people. ”..... That says it all ...

[barclay]

Maybe it makes sense. If the Tatars attach importance to this, then most likely they will participate in financing. A split in society on the peninsula is not needed.

[Pereira]

I agree. The costs are low, and the Tatars amuse themselves with pride. Although, in fairness, it would be worthwhile to establish tablets with Greek and Scythian names, if any

[aleks 62 next]

.... it would be worthwhile to install tablets with Greek and Scythian names, if such were preserved ...

... But this is just not included in their plans and intentions ...

[aleks 62 next]

.... Tatars, apparently, attach importance to this. A split in society on the peninsula is not needed ....

..... Of course .... And about: "... A split in society on the peninsula is not needed ...." - I agree .... But it is these actions that lead to it .... There is also did not forget about their "merits" in the Second World War ..... It would be better if their leaders repented on behalf of the whole people and asked for forgiveness for the "art" of their recent ancestors .... Maybe it would be better ..... But that's all quietly, they try not to mention it, and witnesses of that era are still alive ...

[x.andvlad]

Do not be an elephant in a china shop. In the end, not all Crimean Tatars were traitors. Among them were also heroes. And now we live with them.

[aleks 62 next]

.... In the end, not all Crimean Tatars were traitors. Among them were also heroes. ...

.... I agree .... But only a few ... In the partisan detachments of the Crimea there were as many as 6 (six !!!) of their representatives (and then the former party workers and representatives of the authorities) ... And partisans in Crimea there was a mind-boggling number in all the detachments - 247 people ... Which, by the way, is also the merit of the "deported" .... There are a lot of materials on this topic, not only Soviet bottling, but also post-Soviet (including "imported" ones) ... ...
.... And one more thing: "... And now we have to live with them." .... Let them live like everyone else .... Without pushing themselves out and not making them sufferers ...

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: x.andvlad

In the end, not all Crimean Tatars were traitors.

Percentage say, or google yourself?

[x.andvlad]

I agree. This is a dirty spot in their historical biography. In addition, at the beginning of the "Crimean Spring" the Tatars behaved, frankly, badly. This must be borne in mind, and not give them reasons for whining and indignation. I think that the project with the addition of the so-called. historical names is a rather flexible step in national politics on the peninsula.

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: x.andvlad

I think that the project with the addition of so-called. historical names is a fairly flexible step in national politics on the peninsula.

As if this flexibility did not come out sideways to us. The prerequisites for separatism must be cut in the bud. They were licked so well, making the Crimean Tatar language the state language in Crimea. But in vain. I repeat, the Crimean Tatars appeared in Crimea later than the Russians, Greeks, and Armenians. The Crimean Khanate existed from 1441 to 1783. 340 years, and how much pathos! And harm.
But the trouble is the beginning. Having recognized the rights of Crimeans to national identity with reference to the territory, we create the preconditions for the return of Turkish Crimeans to their "historical homeland". And there are more than 100000 of them.
Only equal rights with the Russians, and no national autonomy!

[Sergey Sitnikov]

A waste of money (((okay, the police were muddied - the ministry cannot be a militia, and then the dough of 40 lard rubles fell, and then ... why?

[A-Sim]

They are preparing for the elections - so that there is something to present in the absence of real affairs.

[Bath]

Quote: brasist

Former owners took up the renaming and these too. What all the obstacles eliminated?

Also surprised as it seems the leadership of the Crimea depends on Kiev

[triglav]

If not from state funds, let them add names. Sorry or something ...

[gray smeet]

Quote: triglav

If not from state funds, let them add names. Sorry or something ...

Indeed, it is a pity that there is Turkish money?

[Ingvar 72]

Quote: triglav

Sorry or something ...

Would you agree to rename your house to a barn? But the bulk of the population of Crimea is not Crimean Tatars, but Russians. Tatars there are 10-12%. And historically, the Crimean Tatars are not an indigenous population; they lived there only 150 years before the transition of Crimea under Russian rule.

[Masya masya]

Are the remaining problems resolved? It remains only to establish the pointers?

[drags33]

Some kind of stupidity ... What did the Crimean leaders drift over there? All of these historical names can be found in historical documents. You can publish some materials on these issues. But settlements with several names (albeit historical) are simply absurd ... Apparently, there are no other worries, and there is nowhere to put money.

[Igor V]

Something they took care of "the most important", it would be better if the tram in the photo was cleaned of rust, it hurts to look.
As for the renaming, on our Kaliningrad "island" as soon as some minor official comes to power, a bummer immediately begins with the return of German names. "I am sure that Svetlogorsk will be Rauschen", and in the same spirit. Maybe they have such a disease? Combing? And in the Crimea too?

[HAM]

I read the comments and ask: PEOPLE, RELAX! Nothing terrible will happen - my settlement has two names - "historical" and "Soviet" - it has been written on the stele at the entrance for 15 years, so call it what you like and no one bothers about it, they call it out of habit by the "Soviet" name ...

[Masya masya]

So it’s been 15 years already, and now there’s not one new one to set up, how many will it be? ... Then we’ll rename the police to the police, I’m not sorry for the money ...

[HAM]

“The Commission will consider a prepared draft for the installation of new signs this month. Project financing will be mainly from extrabudgetary funds,


If so, then at least amusement pride

[Masya masya]

"Extra-budgetary", but it is necessary to get something from somewhere, the question is where?

[VP]

In the Greek will restore?

[BOB044]

In the Crimea, plan to install pointers with historical names of settlements

Now Kiev will choke upon yelling that, the historical names of settlements in the Crimea. Not agreed with them by great historians.

[brasist]

It remains only to find out the names of those heroes (or maybe ukhistoriki just hide their names) that they dug up the sea

[Obolensky]

Well, yes, there are no other problems. Let's put the pointers. We will return the historical names, together with the existing ones. But the people as usual forgot to ask, do they need it right now?

[shelva]

The main thing is to call everything by their proper names, and it is difficult to choose a name for such a rush with renaming in Crimea.

[atamankko]

No signs are needed, but competent guides tell the story to tourists.

[Flat5160]

And in our history with the renaming of the Voykovskaya metro station, is Kiev also to blame? They decided correctly, the names will remain, and as they were called before they will give information on the signs. It has long been necessary for us. There would be less squabble!

[MarKon]

A very harmful step, we need a referendum!

[Ivan Tucha]

Is there nowhere to send money except for the tablets?

[mikh-korsakov]

In principle, the idea is correct. Thus, the Dzhemilev jackals and their European masters are deprived of the occasion to whine once again. But, gentlemen, then double standards must be avoided. I think that on the site of today's Sevastopol and Simferopol there were Greek settlements - indicate their names on the tablets. Something would be an excellent idea, for example, to write St. Petersburg, Petrograd, Leningrad, Tsaritsyn, Stalingrad, Volgograd, etc. But all changes to the tablets should be made at the expense of those who like to groan about historical justice. I foresee that the Kiev "brothers, friends and partners" will start a whistle about the peremoga over the tablets. It's disgusting, but what can you do - you are used to it.

[morprepud]

Botanists from Crimean gardens and kitchen gardens decided to URGENTLY (!) Rename the flower Nasturtium on Murcia...

PS

Nasturtium (lat. Tropaeolum), or capuchin, belongs to the Nasturtium family, and is a herbaceous plant, of which there are about 90 species. Nasturtium plant native to South and Central America ..

[gladysheff2010]

Quote: Obolensky

Well, yes, there are no other problems. Let's put the pointers. We will return the historical names, together with the existing ones. But the people as usual forgot to ask, do they need it right now?

You, in my opinion, are absolutely right in putting emphasis: for officials, this action veils the incompetence and their real inaction on topical issues of Crimean life. Flirting with toponymy is most likely just a stage for nationalistic moods. Someone who wants to plunge into history, or reads the necessary literature, or will turn to the help of a guide, or visit a local museum.

[thinker]

The toponymy of the peninsula has undergone great changes after the deportation of the Crimean Tatars to 1944.

The tourist site has a complete list (about 300!)
Decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Council of the RSFSR from 18 May 1948 years on renaming settlements of the Crimean region.
http://www.turbaza.crimea.info/toponomy.htm

[but still]

I looked under your link the names of the settlements until 1948 - counted a dozen Bulgarian names. In fairness, it would be nice to indicate the historical names of the settlements since their first mention in historical sources - there are settlements founded even before our era. For example: a populated place such-and-such, is first mentioned about it in such-and-such year under the name of such-and-such, later - the name is such-and-such, and so on to the present day. And everyone will be happy and tourists will be interested

[beck]

Quote: aleks 62 next

So, the "deported" there was very good (they still remember that life with longing for the most part) ..

back to their historical homeland, the Mejlis workers drove them by force from Uzbekistan

[chunga-changa]

As Putin recently said, "Lenin planted the bomb." Now I suppose no bomb is being planted, just "restoration of historical justice", well, well. There was also such a small town Kafa, a center for the trade of Russian slaves, will they also add a historical name to it? Well, that would not hurt anyone, for example, the descendants of the Genoese. It is clear that no one is interested in the grievances of the Russian fascists, the multinational friendship of peoples, it is necessary to understand who does not understand is not a patriot.

[afrikanez]

In the city of Yelets, on the old streets, the same thing has been done. But why?

[RUSS]

Quote: afrikanez

In the city of Yelets, on the old streets, the same thing has been done. But why?

Rather for historical justice, a tribute to our History, because each street has its own history, its own "biography".

[matross]

This muddy topic must be closed once and for all. Federal law prohibit any renaming from cities to lanes. As well as the demolition of any monuments, the dismantling of plaques, etc. By the way, endless renaming of institutions would also be nice to ban ...

[Former battalion commander]

And these are in the same place ... A sign of savagery is the destruction and destruction of monuments! A monument can also be the NAME of a settlement or other object ... Well, the communists rushed first into this savagery and renamed a bunch of everything! So what? Now the "normal democrats" are following the same path - they are savages, whatever you call them, but they will show themselves as savages! Here, build FIRST OF ANYTHING YOUR NEW and call it whatever you want! There is no itch of savagery and pushes to shit on their great ancestors ...