Military Review

The myth of the "traitor" Alexander Nevsky

167
Eastern policy


In the role of Prince of Novgorod, Alexander Yaroslavich performed with 1236 on 1246. talented statesman and skilled defender of the interests of the Novgorod land and Russia as a whole. Prince Alexander defended the Baltic possessions well-mastered by Novgorod from the encroachments of Sweden and the Order and did not allow the West to seize the north-western part of Russia. This allowed Novgorod to preserve the role of the largest trading partner of the West, the original way of life and liberties. Veliky Novgorod retained the position of one of the strongest centers of Russia. At the same time, Alexander strengthened the position of his family, the influence of the Vladimir-Suzdal principality in the north of Russia increased markedly. For the Russian land as a whole, Alexander repulsed the onslaught of the Western rulers, behind whom stood the then "command center" of the West - papal Rome.

On the borders of the Novgorod and Pskov lands there was a lull. Sweden, the Order and Lithuania calmed down for a while. The most active soldiers of the West covered the Russian lands with bones. It took time to restore the combat potential. However, in the East, the situation was difficult. Baty defeated the Grand Duchy of Kiev. Galician-Volyn Rus, the least affected by the conquerors, tried to maintain its independence from the Horde. But Prince Daniel Romanovich nevertheless had to abandon the Kiev throne, pay a huge tribute and become the “peacemaker” of Khan Baty. Daniel Galitsky had to accept, although he did not abandon his plans and even made contacts with the West.

Pskov and Novgorod lands were not devastated by the Horde. But historically and economically they were closely connected with Vladimir-Suzdal Russia. For this reason, the Batu Khan, who was famous for his foresight, gave the label - the golden paizu - to the great reign of Vladimir Prince Yaroslav Vsevolodovich, making him the eldest among the Russian princes. However, in the Horde also went the confrontation of various groups. Nevsky's father, Yaroslav, was summoned to the capital of the Horde and poisoned there on 30 September 1246, the mother of the great khan, Khansha Turakina. In this fact, none of his contemporaries did not express doubts. His body was brought to Vladimir and buried there. The Old Russian chronicler will note that the Grand Duke laid down his soul "for all his people and for the Russian land."

Khan Batu established on the Russian land a new grand prince. On the throne of Vladimir was seated uncle Alexander Nevsky - Svyatoslav Vsevolodovich. Alexander not only remains on the Novgorod princedom, but also receives the city of Pereyaslavl in control. In 1247, Alexander Yaroslavich traveled to Orda to Batu. From there, following his brother Andrey, who had left earlier, he went to the Great Khan. The Novgorod prince had a difficult task, and not only his life depended on the successful solution of this problem. He had to decide on his relations with the Golden Horde khan Batu and the great Khan of the Mongol Empire. It was their attitude towards the Russian commander that determined his further fate and place in stories. Alexander Yaroslavich showed the main strategic line of Russia: an uncompromising, uncompromising struggle with the West, which seeks to destroy Russian civilization, the Russian "matrix" and alliance with the East, uniting the vast expanses of Northern Eurasia into the greatest and most powerful empire.

Prince Alexander Yaroslavich, like his father, and grandfather Vsevolod the Big Nest, soon showed himself as a subtle politician and skilled statesman. He considered the main objective of his trip to prevent the causes that led to new campaigns of the Horde in Russia. This was due to his strategic situation: Rome still forced Western knighthood to go on a crusade to the East. A new clash with the Order, Sweden, Lithuania, Poland and other Western centers was inevitable. In the case of normalization of relations with the Horde, Alexander Nevsky could strengthen the defense of the western frontiers and even go on the counteroffensive. Moreover, the Horde could support the Russian prince with military force.

It is also worth noting that, taking into account the myth of the "Mongol-Tatar" invasion, the policy of Alexander becomes even more understandable. From the East came not the “mythical Mongols”, but Russian relatives, the same heirs of the Great Scythia, which once stretched from the Carpathians and the Black Sea to the borders of India, China and Japan. Ordyntsy were Caucasians, carriers of the same anthropological, cultural, linguistic traditions that Russians-Rus Vladimir, Kiev, Galician and Novgorod Russia. The main difference was in religion: the Horde were pagans, in some elements of the culture remained Scytho-Siberian "bestial style". At the same time, there was still a dual faith on Russia itself, in Novgorod Russia many were outspoken pagans.

In the West and East, from geopolitical interests, hide the true story. They cannot recognize that Caucasians-Rus are the direct heirs of the most ancient civilization and tradition, which comes from the times of the Aryans and the mythical Hyberborea. What Caucasians gave impetus to the development of Japanese and Chinese civilizations, created a distinctive Indian civilization and "land of the Aryans" - Iran. That the "Mongols" did not establish the Mongolian empire, since the real Mongols at that time were a wild, small tribe of hunters and herders, who simply physically could not conquer huge China and dozens of states and nationalities. For successful conquests, which led to the creation of a huge empire, a powerful spiritual and material cultural base was needed. It was owned only by the heirs of the Great Scythia - Caucasians-Rus, superethnos Rus. In 1237-1240 there was a collision inside a huge super-ethnos Rus. Two branches of the Ruses clashed in a cruel battle. This should not be surprising. The Rus in their many thousands of years of history have repeatedly encountered in cruel wars. Suffice it to recall the feudal, princely wars before the invasion of the army of Batu, or the civil war before the accession of Vladimir I and after his death. Or the current hatred between the two Russian states - the Russian Federation and Ukraine.

Then the Horde took up. They were one well-organized force. Unity, organization and discipline took up over the fragmentation of Russia and the egoism of the Russian princes, who indifferently watched them take by storm and burn nearby cities. However, the Horde were not "strangers", as Western "dogs-knights." They did not plan to invade the spiritual, cultural life of the Russian principalities. Pagans were tolerant of other people's beliefs. They did not plan to change the management system, seize and colonize lands, build their fortresses. They did not need it. Horde and so belonged a huge territory, inherited from their ancestors, the Rus-Scythians. That is, they were not going to impose their own orders on their brothers by blood, civilizational heritage. The Horde needed: 1) obedience - discipline, that is, submission to the king, the supreme ruler; 2) rent-exit for the army; 3) participation of Russian troops in the general wars of the empire.

At the same time it was necessary to solve the general problem of containing the West. Baty partially solved this problem during the campaign 1241-1242. It is worth saying that the simultaneous actions of Alexander Yaroslavich to defeat the Swedish and German knights in 1240-1242. They look very organic, if we consider the simultaneous strike of the Horde in Poland and Hungary. It turns out that the squads of Alexander and the regiments of Batuy acted on a huge strategic front from north to south, and ensured the defeat of the main Western powers that were attacking the Russian lands.

It is obvious that at that time Alexander Yaroslavich understood this perfectly well. For later times, when the true history of the census takers created the myth of the "Mongol-Tatar invasion" and "yoke", and then it was confirmed by Russian supporters of the Western version of the story, Alexander's actions were not clear. Moreover, they became the basis for accusations of "betrayal." They say that Alexander became the “Oriental despot” and even spoke out against the “patriots” of the princes who fought the Horde, forced Novgorod Russia to submit to the Horde. Allegedly, Alexander Yaroslavich was not a hero of the Russian land, but its traitor and oppressor, helping the "Horde invaders." And thus, Alexander allegedly interrupted the history of Russia, as part of European civilization, choosing not the western, but the eastern vector of development, condemning Russia and the Russian people to "age-old backwardness" before the "advanced" Western countries.

Not surprisingly, the prince of Novgorod humbled his princely, elite ambitions, pride, and decided to adhere to a peaceful policy with the Horde. The Horde in most cases condescendingly treated the Russian princes, who recognized their sovereignty and paid regular tribute. Disobedience of princes was cruelly punished. And ordinary people paid for it - townspeople and villagers. Princes could escape to neighboring lands or to the West. In case of refusal or concealment of the “exit”, the baskaks could have ruined and robbed the recalcitrant principality with the help of military force. Such punitive raids were accompanied by massive deportation into slavery of the young working-age population, the burning of cities and villages. Given the military-strategic situation, the fragmentation of the Russian land, the threat from the West, the great loss of life, Russia could not challenge the Horde. That is why Prince Alexander Yaroslavich Nevsky all the years of his reign by any measures sought to prevent the Khan Baskaks from Russia, but to conduct all calculations with the Horde itself. Only a regular and large tribute from the Russian lands could keep the steppe kings from new punitive campaigns against the principality of Russia.

At the same time, Alexander did not groan before the Horde, he forced himself to respect the powerful masters of the East. So, on arrival in the capital of the Golden Horde, the prince had, according to custom, established himself at the conquerors of the Universe, to go through the cleansing fire of two fires and worship the pagan shrines before entering the tent of Batu Khan. All Russian princes were subject to such a rite. Refusal from him could lead to immediate death. Alexander Nevsky with all his firmness refused to go through the cleansing fire of fires and worship the Horde shrines. Then they brought him to the Khan's tent and Batu asked: “Why did you, the prince, not fearing death, refuse to perform our rites?” “Great Khan,” answered the Russian prince-warrior, “our Holy Scripture says:“ No one can serve two Gentlemen: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or one will be zealous, but about the other not happy. You cannot serve God and mammon (riches, wealth) "". Having finished such a brief speech, Prince Alexander Yaroslavich bowed to Khan Batu and continued: “I worship you because you are a man and a king, but I will not bow to the creature. And the Holy Warrior (that is how the Horde's name was Genghis Khan after his death, without uttering the name of the greatest conqueror of world history) in his laws recognized the faith of foreigners. We receive Orthodoxy from birth from our ancestors and ask: not who you are by blood, but how do you believe? But we know another thing, that with the Most High all faiths are equal. And Russian people living together with other nations do not force them to change their beliefs. ”

Batu Khan was amazed by the bold speech of the Russian commander. The fact remains that after this the lord of the Horde received the Russian prince invariably mercifully. Acquainted with the life and customs of the Horde, Prince Alexander Yaroslavich concluded that the Russian principalities, without causing anger and punitive measures, could rather successfully gradually restore their lost military power. So it will be. The Horde empire will soon, by historical standards, fall into a systemic crisis caused by elite strife and the adoption of Islam as the state religion, and gradually Moscow will become the new center of the united Russian Empire, of which the Horde will also become a part.

The myth of the "traitor" Alexander Nevsky

P. Korin Alexander Nevsky

Prince "of the whole Russian land"

The outcome of the trip of brothers Alexander and Andrey Yaroslavichi to Sarai was the allocation of their possessions in Russia. Batu Khan distributed the land between them at first glance quite unexpectedly. But we can assume that the wise ruler did it not without long-term calculation. Prince Alexander Yaroslavich, retaining the Novgorod table, received from the tsar Baty the city of Kiev and "all Russian land". The Khan label gave the right to occupy the ancient Kiev throne. Prince Andrei Yaroslavovich “sede in Volodymer on the table,” that is, Batu Khan gave Alexander's father's capital city to his younger brother Alexander. Thus the brothers Yaroslavichi concentrated in their hands the most important and powerful tables - Novgorod, Kiev and Vladimir.

However, between the brothers, as the chronicler notes, “there was a direct message about the great reigning”. After this Khan's decision, it was just hard to understand who the Grand Duke was in Russia. Formally, Alexander Nevsky seems to be, but the largest and strongest principality of Vladimir was not administratively in his possession. On the other hand, Novgorod, where the eldest son, the heir of the Grand Duke of Vladimir, Yaroslav Vsevolodovich, sat on the princely table, was dependent on the capital city of Vladimir. And Kiev almost completely lost its former meaning. Therefore, Alexander did not go to him, and settled in Novgorod. According to V.N. Tatishchev, the prince was still going to go to Kiev, but the people of Novgorod “retained his Tatars for the sake of”.

Events followed one after the other. Metropolitan Kirill, having left ruined Kiev, arrived in Suzdal. From there in 1251, he went to Novgorod. Prince Alexander Yaroslavich and the entire people of Novgorod solemnly met. At the request of the townspeople and villagers of Novgorod Russia, Metropolitan Kirill delivered Bishop Dalmat to the diocese. In ancient Russian history, this was a notable event. Soon after, Alexander Nevsky was seriously ill. A long journey through the expanses of Eurasia undermined his good health. It is possible that they also tried to poison him. The priests prayed for him in all the churches of Veliky Novgorod, the illness withdrew with difficulty. The chronicler will say: "Being his illness is hard." Yet the disease retreated and the prince rose to his feet. Novgorod cheered.

In the same year 1251 Novgorod Russia was struck by bad weather, which led to crop failure. In the summer it rained heavily and the water flooded the fields and pastures. Drenched bread and hay. Raging from the abundance of water, the Volkhov demolished a large bridge in the city. In the fall, it hit the early frost, which ruined the remaining crop. Novgorod was threatened with famine, but the townspeople managed to reasonably manage the small stocks of food left over from previous years, and overwintered, interrupted. Novgorodtsev saved the fact that peace reigned in their lands. The former victories of Alexander affected.

This hungry winter from 1251 to 1252 was the last year in the Novgorod rule of Prince Alexander Nevsky. The reason for this was the younger brother Andrei Yaroslavich, the Grand Duke of Vladimir. The relationship between the brothers was complicated. Andrei Yaroslavich entered into an alliance with Daniel of Galicia (to whom the pope offered the royal crown as early as 1246 — 1247) and decided to oppose the Horde.

At the same time, the masters of the West tried to seduce Alexander with the crown of the king. There is information about the two epistles of Pope Innocent IV to Alexander Nevsky. In the first, the Pope suggests that Alexander follow the example of his father, who allegedly agreed (the Pope referred to Plano Carpini) before his death to submit to the Roman throne, and also suggests coordinating with the German knights in the event of an attack by the Horde on Russia. In the second letter, the pope mentions Alexander's consent to be baptized into the Catholic faith and to build a Catholic church in Pskov, and also asks to receive his ambassador, the archbishop of Prussia. In 1251, two cardinals with a bull came to Alexander Yaroslavich in Novgorod. According to the chronicler's story, the Russian prince, after consulting with wise people, set out the entire history of Russia and in conclusion said: “We will eat the whole of good, but we do not accept teachings from you.”

To be continued ...
Author:
Articles from this series:
Great Russian Prince Alexander Yaroslavich

“Whoever comes to us with a sword, will die by the sword.” That was where the Russian land stood and stands! ”
How Alexander Yaroslavich defeated the Swedish knights
How Alexander Yaroslavich defeated the German knights
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  1. Mangel olys
    Mangel olys 9 February 2016 07: 14
    +9
    Well, Alexander ... you "give the country coal"! It turns out that I am Russian too! Although all his life he considered himself a Tatar. "Fiction", not an article. In the truest sense of the word!
    1. inkass_98
      inkass_98 9 February 2016 07: 24
      +5
      Quote: Mangel Olys
      you "give the country coal"!

      Neighing too. And why did they teach me something at school and at the university for so many years?
      And then again - and Samsonov told the whole truth laughing . Nosovsky with Fomenko (and Muldashev in addition) weep with envy belay .
      1. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker 9 February 2016 08: 46
        12
        At the same time it was necessary to solve the general problem of containing the West. Baty partially solved this problem during the campaign 1241-1242. It is worth saying that the simultaneous actions of Alexander Yaroslavich to defeat the Swedish and German knights in 1240-1242. They look very organic, if we consider the simultaneous strike of the Horde in Poland and Hungary. It turns out that the squads of Alexander and the regiments of Batuy acted on a huge strategic front from north to south, and ensured the defeat of the main Western powers that were attacking the Russian lands.

        Well, what do you think?
        One question: "Where was the General Staff of the allied forces located? How were the actions of Alexander's squads and Batu's regiments coordinated? Who issued the orders under the name of the Commander-in-Chief?"
        what
        In the West and East, out of geopolitical interests, they hide the true story. They cannot recognize that the Caucasoid-Rus are the direct heirs of the most ancient civilization and tradition, which comes from the time of the Aryans and the mythical Gibberborea. That the Caucasians gave an impetus to the development of Japanese and Chinese civilizations, created a distinctive Indian civilization and a "country of Aryans" - Iran. That it was not the “Mongols" who founded the Mongol Empire, since the real Mongols at that time were a wild small tribe of hunters and herders, which simply physically could not conquer huge China and dozens of states and nationalities.

        So derogatory post-factum ride through the army-conqueror ....
        Even 30 years ago, no one, except for a narrow circle of specialists, could have imagined that China would become a great economic power. They laughed and giggled over products from the Middle Kingdom for the same reasons, they say China is a country of hunters and pastoralists of the 20th century.
        1. Stirbjorn
          Stirbjorn 9 February 2016 10: 15
          +2
          Quote: stalkerwalker
          Even 30 years ago, no one, except for a narrow circle of specialists, could have imagined that China would become a great economic power. They laughed and giggled over products from the Middle Kingdom for the same reasons, they say China is a country of hunters and pastoralists of the 20th century.
          Yeah, and the Macedonians under Philip, Alexander’s folder, were still considered a bunch of mountain shepherd warriors, distant and wild relatives of the Greeks. And it turned out, after 20 years)
          And then, there are images in the form of drawings, statues, tombstones and tombstones - Genghis Khan, Batu, Jochi, Ugedei and so on - something does not look like Alexander Nevsky at all. Or is it nasty Christians, Jews or Muslims there, desecrated the faces of proud Aryan Russeks - who is the main enemy of the neopagans there, I find it difficult to name)
          1. ver_
            ver_ 9 February 2016 10: 31
            -7
            Yuri George Dolgoruky = Caesar Khan = Chingiz Khan - the elder brother of Yaroslav - the son of Vsevolod - the grandson of Khan Eney John Rurik Varyag Troyants ... called up by the princes of Russia to arrive after the fall of Troy - the second crusade ..
          2. Corsair
            Corsair 9 February 2016 11: 27
            +4
            Quote: Stirbjorn
            And then, there are images in the form of drawings, statues, tombstones and tombstones - Genghis Khan, Batu, Jochi, Ugedei and so on - something does not look like Alexander Nevsky at all. Or is it nasty Christians, Jews or Muslims there, desecrated the faces of proud Aryan Russeks - who is the main enemy of the neopagans there, I find it difficult to name)

            laughing Statues of masks and stuff for the most part were made at a later time, and naturally the creators made them to the best of their interests and customers.
            No one will say exactly what they really looked like, unless you can try to construct a face from the skull, the only question is whether it will be their skulls?
            1. Spnsr
              Spnsr 9 February 2016 15: 43
              +1
              Quote: Corsair
              Quote: Stirbjorn
              And then, there are images in the form of drawings, statues, tombstones and tombstones - Genghis Khan, Batu, Jochi, Ugedei and so on - something does not look like Alexander Nevsky at all. Or is it nasty Christians, Jews or Muslims there, desecrated the faces of proud Aryan Russeks - who is the main enemy of the neopagans there, I find it difficult to name)

              laughing Statues of masks and stuff for the most part were made at a later time, and naturally the creators made them to the best of their interests and customers.
              No one will say exactly what they really looked like, unless you can try to construct a face from the skull, the only question is whether it will be their skulls?

              here we can add that Mongolia as a state, more precisely, could have been a republic of the USSR, was appointed only at the beginning of the 20th century, like all other republics of the USSR ... which are now trying to gain originality ...
          3. alicante11
            alicante11 9 February 2016 14: 46
            -1
            Yeah, and the Macedonians under Philip, Alexander’s folder, were still considered a bunch of mountain shepherd warriors, distant and wild relatives of the Greeks. And it turned out, after 20 years)


            Those who believed so bitterly repented when he came with his phalanx and heavy cavalry under the command of a future genius. Alexander actually got ready Greece, united under the Macedonian rule.
          4. Cap.Morgan
            Cap.Morgan 9 February 2016 19: 55
            +3
            We also do not know how Nevsky looked.
            The image of the actor who played in the film, Cherkasov, was taken as the standard.
        2. nils
          nils 9 February 2016 11: 10
          +8
          "..taking into account the myth of the "Mongol-Tatar" invasion ... From the East came not "mythical Mongols", but the relatives of the Russians ... The Horde were Caucasians, carriers of the same anthropological, cultural, linguistic traditions as the Russian-Rus of Vladimir, Kiev, Galicia and Novgorod Rus. ... At the same time, in Russia itself, dual faith was still preserved "

          Excerpt from the Nikon Chronicle of the 15th - 16th centuries:
          "That winter they came from eastern countries in the forest to Ryazan land godless Tatars with Tsar Batu ".

          From the story "About the ruin of Ryazan" XIII - XIV centuries. (an outstanding literary monument of ancient Russia):
          Eupatius cried out in his grief his soul and disintegrated in his heart.
          And I gathered a few squads - a thousand seven hundred people whom God kept (kept), being outside the city. And drove to the trail of the godless king and barely stole (caught up) him in the lands of Suzdalstey. And suddenly attacking Batyev’s camps and beginning the battle without mercy. And confused all the regiments Tatar, Tatar the same stasha are drunk or violent. Eupatius taco them byashe mercilessly, as if the swords were dulled, and he (took) the Tatar swords and slashed them. Tatarove is thinking, as if the vostasha is dead. Eupathy the strong Tatar regiments passing by, byashe them mercilessly and riding through the Tatar regiments bravely and. Courageously, as if the tsar himself would get excited ... "

          From the "Laurentian Chronicle" compiled at the end of the fourteenth centuries:
          "... the Tatars went and took Suzdal and the Church of the Holy Mother of God, plundered both the princely court and the monastery of St. Dmitry, burned down, and plundered the rest of the monasteries; monks and old nuns, priests, blind and lame, hunchbacked, sick and all (old) people they killed, and the young monks and nuns, priests, priest, deacons and their wives, daughters and their sons, they all were taken to their camps.
          We went to the attack of Vladimir on February 7 in memory of the holy martyr Theodore Stratilates. And there was a great lamentation in the city ... And they took the city before dinner. The Tatars forcefully opened the church doors and saw that those who had locked themselves in the church had died of fire, and those who had not died were finished off and in all monasteries the icons were stripped or chopped off and books were ripped off ... and from the young to the old man to the infant, they killed everyone, killing some, leading others to their camps barefoot and naked, dying of frost. "

          From the Ipatiev Chronicle of the 14th Century:
          So Batu ravaged the city of Vladimir, captured the cities of Suzdal and came to the city of Kozelsk. AND the wicked they learned that people in the city have a strong spirit, and you can’t take cities with false words. The Kozelyans consulted and decided not to surrender to Batu,
          saying: "Although our prince is young, we will put life for him, and here we will receive the glory of this world, and there we will receive the crowns of heaven from God" ....
          The Kozelyans, however, cut with them with knives and decided to go out to the Tatar regiments, and left the city and chopped up their battering guns, attacked their regiments, killed four thousand of the Tatars and were themselves killed. Batu took the city and did not spare anyone, from adolescents to nursing infants, but it is unknown about Prince Vasily, others said that he drowned in blood because he was very small. "

          Caucasians, you say relatives? And who are you Samsonov? Also Caucasian?
          1. Corsair
            Corsair 9 February 2016 11: 50
            +5
            Quote: nils
            Excerpt from the Nikon Chronicle of the 15th - 16th centuries:

            Quote: nils
            From the "Laurentian Chronicle" compiled at the end of the fourteenth centuries:

            Quote: nils
            From the Ipatiev Chronicle of the 14th Century:

            Who wrote all these annals and whether it is possible to believe them is the first question.
            The second question is - weren't any enemies called Tatars then? Let's say one prince attacked another, and in his army a bunch of very different people - the Tatars were garbage.
            The third and probably most interesting - where did all these Tatars go?
            Yes, this is the second largest nation after Russia in Russia, and the Russians are now registered as Mordvinians and Chuvashs and Moldovans (real cases), and the Tatars are also, not counting others, but according to the statistics of the Tatars, only 4 percent, although in Tatar families are not allowed to give birth to one child.
            Died out? Gone to the Mongols?
            And the fact that the Bulgarian Tatars (Bulgars) are almost completely blondes (or brown-haired) with green and gray eyes, with brown hair is probably another myth.
            Go to Tatarstan will be pleasantly surprised that there are more Caucasians there than in France or Germany.
            1. stalkerwalker
              stalkerwalker 9 February 2016 12: 52
              +5
              Quote: Corsair
              Who wrote all these annals and whether it is possible to believe them is the first question.

              It seems that you prefer the "remakes" of the SuperDill ethnic group.
              Are Tatischev and Karamzin, Solovyov and Klyuchevsky with Lomonosov - are they also samizdat?
              Did you study at school? Or straight to the courtyard, to the Alkanauts in the company?
              1. Corsair
                Corsair 9 February 2016 15: 13
                0
                Quote: stalkerwalker
                It seems that you prefer the "remakes" of the SuperDill ethnic group.
                Are Tatischev and Karamzin, Solovyov and Klyuchevsky with Lomonosov - are they also samizdat?
                Did you study at school? Or straight to the courtyard, to the Alkanauts in the company?

                Well, yes - it’s worthless to write down those who disagree immediately into flawed or alkonauts.
                I don’t like remodels and I didn’t support the above opus, but only voiced my opinion, but the myth of a certain Tatar yoke does not stand up to any reasoned criticism. Studied at school and do not believe it, even studied at a university (20 years ago).
                Only here they teach at school what they have approved in the program and God forbid you to see the school curriculum now, each generation of historians writes "its own truth" - consistent with the necessary historical realities.
                It was necessary to yoke - they came up with the yoke, but do not write in history that the ancient Russians beat each other for centuries in the struggle for power and land (any strong state began with this - the unification of motley tribes under one sovereign) - this is not patriotic, writing what our others were powerfully spudding, too, not an option, but we are for world peace.
                1. stalkerwalker
                  stalkerwalker 9 February 2016 15: 25
                  +2
                  Quote: Corsair
                  Only now at school they teach what is approved in the program

                  This is not for me, this is for Medinsky ...
                  Quote: Corsair
                  and God forbid you to see the school curriculum now, each generation of historians writes "its own truth" - consistent with the necessary historical realities

                  I read recently.
                  Volumetric information, compressed. History must be studied from grades 1-2. Otherwise, the children will not pull, because in each paragraph of information for the whole article.
              2. Spnsr
                Spnsr 9 February 2016 15: 52
                +4
                Quote: stalkerwalker
                Quote: Corsair
                Who wrote all these annals and whether it is possible to believe them is the first question.

                It seems that you prefer the "remakes" of the SuperDill ethnic group.
                Are Tatischev and Karamzin, Solovyov and Klyuchevsky with Lomonosov - are they also samizdat?
                Did you study at school? Or straight to the courtyard, to the Alkanauts in the company?

                you know very well what and how it was with the work of Lomonosov!
                and a lot of this was already written later on from the works of the previous ones and customized to the previous one, because in order to become a historian and to be recognized among historians, one must adhere to “history”!
          2. stalkerwalker
            stalkerwalker 9 February 2016 12: 29
            +5
            The Ipatiev Chronicle of 1240 describes the storming of the city as follows: 'Surrounding the Tatars city of Chernigov is powerful ... Prince Mikhail Glebovich came to foreigners with his warriors, and the battle was fierce at Chernigov ... But Mstislav was defeated quickly and many were beaten from his howl. And hail taking and screaming fire ...'Excavations have confirmed the accuracy of the chronicle record.
            Stuffings of this kind kill the authority of Russian historians Tatishchev, Karamzin, Klyuchevsky.

            But it is V.O. Klyuchevsky singled out another side of the power of the Mongol Khan over the Russian princes - he believed that it acted for Russia as a unifying factor, and that without the arbitration of the Horde, "the princes would tear Russia to shreds" with their strife.
          3. alicante11
            alicante11 9 February 2016 14: 49
            +5
            "That winter, godless Tatars with Tsar Batu came from the eastern countries in the forest to Ryazan land."


            And the wicked learned


            Well, it is said that there were pagans. Therefore, both "godless" and "filthy" and "ungodly".
            At the same time, the word "king" is interesting in relation to the khan. Although the Russians had heard about the khans long before that.
            1. tomket
              tomket 9 February 2016 15: 34
              +1
              Quote: alicante11
              At the same time, the word "king" is interesting in relation to the khan. Although the Russians had heard about the khans long before that.

              The khans were around like untreated dogs, as well as princes. But the great khan is the king! Simple and understandable, khan over khans.
              1. alicante11
                alicante11 9 February 2016 16: 23
                +1
                The khans were around like untreated dogs, as well as princes. But the great khan is the king! Simple and understandable, khan over khans.


                But the Great Khan, by analogy with the Grand Duke - not?
                1. tomket
                  tomket 9 February 2016 16: 44
                  0
                  Quote: alicante11
                  But the Great Khan, by analogy with the Grand Duke - not?

                  Not. In the common people, the king = monarch in general. You will not demand from commoners knowledge in the intricacies of the Chingizid hierarchy. For example, Genesis was the leader over the army of Genghisides, but was not the great Hagan, which was Ogedey. So try to determine who they have there is a great Batu Khagan who controls the troops here or Ogedey who sits in Karakorum.
                  1. alicante11
                    alicante11 10 February 2016 05: 01
                    0
                    You will not demand from commoners knowledge in the intricacies of the Chingizid hierarchy.


                    The chronicler may be a commoner ... although I doubt it, education was by no means public at that time. But ... clearly an educated person. So he should know the "intricacies".
          4. tomket
            tomket 9 February 2016 15: 31
            +4
            Quote: nils
            Also Caucasian?

            Reptiloid))))
        3. alicante11
          alicante11 9 February 2016 14: 40
          +2
          As far back as 30 years ago, no one but a narrow circle of specialists could have supposed that China would become a great economic power.


          Well, the Americans pulled up, and who "pulled" the tribal nomads of the Mongols?
          How do you generally imagine a tribal association of nomads? How to interest, how to maintain discipline, if the offended tribe is removed and wanders off to distant lands and it is difficult for more numerous "allied" tribes to catch up with it, since there is a supply problem. Again, the same problem is facing the nomadic army. You are talking about the General Staff, well, the supply of an army capable of passing through all of Eurasia should be at least a modern General Staff and have at its disposal no less than railways and auto battalions.
          1. stalkerwalker
            stalkerwalker 9 February 2016 15: 14
            +4
            Quote: alicante11
            You are talking about the General Staff, well, at least the modern General Staff should be engaged in supplying the army capable of crossing all of Eurasia and have at its disposal no less than railways and motor battalions.

            My answer contained criticism of the so-called. coordinated actions of "allied troops" of Khan Batu and Prince A. Nevsky.
            Well, regarding the supply of an army capable of passing through all of Eurasia, Batu’s army was far from the first - the invasion of the Obrov-Avrov tribe took place 5 centuries before the events described.
            I. A small piquant detail - together with the Avars in the raids on the Roman Empire, the Slavic tribes, which by that time had not yet divided into eastern and western Slavs, took over. The Slavs also fought against the Avars. And precisely for the reason indicated by Nestor in the "Tale of Time Years" that "... the Dulebs were tortured by the cliffs ...", the Slavic tribes were forced to leave their "family nest" on the southwestern slope of the Carpathians. Go to the banks of the Vltava, Vistula, Dnieper and Volkhov. And the free territories were occupied by the tribes of the Ugrians and Bulgars-Bulgarians, who were related to the same nomads, the Avars-Obram.
            I have one question FOR ALL CRITICS of the Tatar-Mongol yoke: "Do you study History by stuffing and commenting?"
            Learn History, and do not download from topic to topic, from article to article, like fleas for dogs ....
            1. alicante11
              alicante11 9 February 2016 16: 22
              0
              Well, regarding the supply of an army capable of passing through all of Eurasia, Batu’s army was far from the first - the invasion of the Obrov-Avrov tribe took place 5 centuries before the events described.


              And, nevertheless, you are not answering the question of HOW this supply was organized. At the same time, you offer to "study history". The Bible is also a "history textbook", especially the Old Testament, but this does not mean that I have to study history from it.

              Learn History, and do not download from topic to topic, from article to article, like fleas for dogs ....


              Well, judging by your knowledge in many areas, you are doing the same. And do not get annoyed so, since there is nothing to answer, then you can remain silent.
              1. stalkerwalker
                stalkerwalker 9 February 2016 17: 49
                +2
                Quote: alicante11
                And, nevertheless, you do not answer the question HOW this supply was organized

                I didn’t participate, you know ... Neither in the raids of the Tatar-Mongol, nor in the Avars.
                I didn’t even take part in the Battle of Kulikovo. wassat
                1. alicante11
                  alicante11 10 February 2016 05: 05
                  0
                  I didn’t participate, you know ... Neither in the raids of the Tatar-Mongol, nor in the Avars.
                  I didn’t even take part in the Battle of Kulikovo. wassat


                  That's why you need to be very careful about the evidence. And, if possible, verify them with logic and modern knowledge.
        4. Villon
          Villon 9 February 2016 15: 00
          +1
          Quote: stalkerwalker
          So derogatory post-factum ride through the army-conqueror ....

          So what is left of this army of conqueror artifacts?
          1. stalkerwalker
            stalkerwalker 9 February 2016 15: 22
            +2
            Quote: Villon
            So what is left of this army of conqueror artifacts?

            What can be left of a giant camp in the open air?
            I. Where is Ryazan, ravaged by nomads, located?
            In the end, how many villages and towns survived after the Nazi occupation on the European territory of Russia?
            Forget these newfangled little things - artifacts, a gala group ... Read the historical research of at least those authors that I mentioned.
          2. kalibr
            kalibr 9 February 2016 22: 19
            +2
            Full left! Come to Penza and ask to take you to Zolotarevka. There is a museum, near the hillfort. Then to the city center on Krasnaya street, 40. There is a university. 8-th building 2-floor. There, Professor Belorybkin, who was digging it up ... Now tell him all this. He will laugh for a long time!
          3. The comment was deleted.
        5. Nicholas C.
          Nicholas C. 9 February 2016 15: 32
          +3
          Samsonov wrote many good articles and deserved to be respected. I do not want to comment on his fascination with modern historical hypotheses and mixing them with historical knowledge accepted in traditional scientific circulation. But too Alexander became careless (one passage from the beginning):

          Quote: Author Samsonov Alexander
          Batu defeated the Grand Duchy of Kiev. Galicia-Volyn Rus, the least affected by the conquerors, tried to maintain its independence from the Horde. But Prince Daniil Romanovich still had to abandon the throne of Kiev, pay a huge tribute and become the "peaceman" of Batu Khan. Daniil Galitsky had to come to terms, although he did not abandon his plans and even established contacts with the West.

          1. What is the "Grand Duchy of Kiev"? Andrey Bogolyubsky transferred the grand-ducal table to Vladimir, and burned Kiev. Since then, Kiev has become an object of strife between the Smolensk and Chernigov princes. Only in 1236 did Alexander's father become the prince of Kiev, but already in 1238 he went to a promotion, to the great reign that was freed in Vladimir. Militarily, Kiev did not represent anything significant. He is not mentioned in the story about Prince Igor. (There is an explanation, but still). Not to be confused with the title. The titles of the Grand Duke of Kiev and the Metropolitan (!) Were used for a very long time. This is a different topic.

          2. Why is it "Galicia-Volyn Rus, the least affected"? In North-Eastern Russia, independence in everything was preserved, and after a while they began to collect taxes themselves. In South Russia, incl. Galitskaya, direct khan rule was established for centuries with all the ensuing consequences. From a historical perspective - with consequences for the preservation of the Russian ethnos itself in these lands.

          3. Table - I understand. "Kiev throne" - how is it?

          4. "Daniil Romanovich still had to renounce the Kiev throne." Still would. The Tatars came to avenge Kalka. By the way, they introduced their direct rule in the principalities that took part in that battle. And in other Russian principalities - no. "A coincidence? I don't think so." Daniel remained one of the few who survived and survived. The Russian princes did not want to support the Polovtsians. And the Tatars (Jebe and Subedei) said, they say, we don't need you, give us our grooms and we will leave. The problem was that the Galician princes were the closest relatives of the Polovtsian Khan Kotyan. They were the only (!) Supporters of the war with the Tatars. And then someone (?!) killed the Tatar ambassadors. It is interesting that the Galician princes (including the youngest - Daniel) were the first to escape from the battlefield, trampling the regiment of the Chernigovites who had just crossed the Kalka River, and did not stop even at the regiment of Mstislav the Old. Having reached the Dnieper, they burned the ferry facilities there, so that there was nothing to chase after them. But thus they doomed their own. So Daniel had one task - how to save his own skin. For the Tatars, he was an unacceptable figure.

          5. "even established contacts with the West." This topic has meaning only for the West, for its propaganda. Because church, incl. local Galician hierarchs did not take any part in those negotiations. And without support, Daniel was no more than the current Kasyanov Misha2%, who trades in Russian lands.

          6. Batu left the title of Kiev to Alexander's father, who by will (!?) To him. But the governors ruled there. Whose (!?) is also a separate topic. What kind of "throne" is there. And what a principality. Daniel's sons are already Lithuanian princes.

          Illustration of the betrayal of the Galician princes in the picture of Chorikov:
      2. tomket
        tomket 9 February 2016 15: 29
        +1
        Quote: inkass_98
        And then again - and Samsonov told the whole truth

        Samsonov rolled down to Fomenko .... Shame and shame .....
      3. smershxnumx
        smershxnumx 9 February 2016 20: 48
        +3
        Nosovsky with Fomenko (and Muldashev in addition) weep with envy

        A colleague, especially Muldashev ... wassat
    2. Nikolay K
      Nikolay K 9 February 2016 08: 51
      +7
      Everything was fine until I read this:
      The Hordes were Caucasians, bearers of the same anthropological, cultural, linguistic traditions that the Russian-Russians of Vladimir, Kiev, Galician and Novgorod Rus.

      It turns out that the Mongols were Russian-speaking and had a culture similar to us. Tin.
      1. Furious bambr
        Furious bambr 9 February 2016 10: 00
        +2
        Mom - Ukrainian, Mongols - Russian. Statements built upon years of historical research laughing
        1. Vend
          Vend 9 February 2016 10: 05
          +2
          Quote: Furious Bambr
          Mom - Ukrainian, Mongols - Russian. Statements built upon years of historical research laughing

          There are a lot of such statements. And interestingly, even books are published. And there are two myths in the life of Alexander Yaroslavich: The first is that he is a traitor to Russia and that he was the first to defeat the knights on ice.
      2. Chiropractor
        Chiropractor 9 February 2016 10: 15
        14
        The author writes not the Mongols, but the Horde were Caucasians. Read carefully, do not distort ...
        If I do not share the opinion of the author, then I consider the mockery of the material to be a vile act.
        You have a different opinion, different from the author - excellent! Set it out in a counter article. But s.rat in kamenty - does not require a great mind ..
        1. Voice of the Mind
          Voice of the Mind 9 February 2016 11: 39
          +5
          Quote: Kostoprav
          The author writes not the Mongols, but the Horde were Caucasians. Read carefully, do not distort.

          The author also diligently avoids the word “Slavs”, replacing it with “Rus” in all places. It looks like he is ashamed to be a "Slav", he wants to be a Balt - "Rus"
      3. Corsair
        Corsair 9 February 2016 11: 20
        0
        Quote: Nikolai K
        It turns out that the Mongols were Russian-speaking and had a culture similar to us. Tin.

        The myth of a certain Tatar-Mongol yoke appeared relatively recently in the 20th century (this is also how fables are written about ancient ukropiteks), the Tatars themselves quite peacefully existed with other tribes in Russia. Princes when sharing power often enlisted the support of various tribes and nationalities. The Bulgarian principality (present-day Tatarstan) also lived quite peacefully its life, until Grozny decided to unite the peoples under its rule.
        If you think carefully, most of the warriors were an attempt to remove a competitor to a chair or to unite territories.
    3. IS-80
      IS-80 9 February 2016 10: 27
      +3
      Quote: Mangel Olys
      It turns out I'm Russian too! Although all his life he considered himself a Tatar.

      No contradictions. You are Russian, but Tatar. smile
      1. KBR109
        KBR109 9 February 2016 11: 16
        +3
        Horde is a melting pot of peoples. Caucasoids are rare crap. The ancestors of the Horde - Rus-Scythians - this, too, to Napoleon. The author below is ALEXY: you can also believe this, if you accept it as a dogma laughing that Genghis is actually Bogdan Genghis Khanenko.
    4. Cap.Morgan
      Cap.Morgan 9 February 2016 19: 52
      0
      You are not a Tatar. You are the Bulgar))) a descendant of the inhabitants of the Great Bulgaria
      1. Mangel olys
        Mangel olys 9 February 2016 20: 51
        +1
        Quote: Cap.Morgan
        You are not a Tatar. You are the Bulgar))) a descendant of the inhabitants of the Great Bulgaria

        You know, you are not the only one so lost. Starting especially from the 1944 of the year, they wanted to remake all the Tatars into the Bulgars, but somehow this event was not crowned with special success. I will quote: “Truth is born as heresy and dies as a delusion”
        Georg Hegel
        So the truth is that we are Tatars and it will not die as a delusion that we are Bulgars. Every Tatar is obliged to know his ancestors up to the seventh generation, as is customary with us. And my ancestors were all Tatars.
    5. Wayna qhapaq
      Wayna qhapaq 10 February 2016 13: 00
      0
      As the frogmen say, “Scrape the Russian — you will find a Tatar” (Grattez le russe et vous verrez le Tatare).
  2. Alexy
    Alexy 9 February 2016 07: 19
    +4
    Recently I read another hohloopus on a browser. It turns out that Alexander Nevsky, according to the author, was a descendant of Batu. And what is interesting, a huge part of the inhabitants of Ukraine believes in this nonsense.
    1. ver_
      ver_ 9 February 2016 10: 03
      -9
      .. Alexander Nevsky = Alexander of Macedonia = Khan Berke = Simeon the Proud is all one man --- the son of Yaroslav the Wise = Yaroslav Vsevolodovich = John Kalita = (John Kalif) = Khan Batu (Batya), who founded the Vatican .. Khan = Kan = King = Emperor ..
      1. Dewa1s
        Dewa1s 9 February 2016 11: 26
        +4
        again, the orderlies opened the cells?)
        1. BMP-2
          BMP-2 9 February 2016 14: 11
          +1
          No, they just mixed up the tablets! laughing
      2. tomket
        tomket 9 February 2016 15: 37
        +1
        Quote: ver_
        Alexander Nevsky = Alexander of Macedonia = Khan Berke = Simeon the Proud is all one man --- the son of Yaroslav the Wise = Yaroslav Vsevolodovich = John Kalita = (John Kalif) = Khan Batu (Batya), who founded the Vatican .. Khan = Kan = Tsar = Emperor ..

        He is the great dark lord - Darth Vader, aka Vladimir Putin))))
  3. parusnik
    parusnik 9 February 2016 07: 26
    +7
    Tell Alexander, how many Samsonov "blacks" work for you ...? It seems that under the name Alexander Samsonov, articles are written by different people ... Up to this point Not “mythical Mongols” came from the East, but Russian relatives read ... no further ..
    1. Villon
      Villon 9 February 2016 15: 10
      -1
      Quote: parusnik
      But to this place from the East came not "mythical Mongols", but I read Russian relatives ... did not go any further ..

      But in vain. If you already believed that the Tatar-Mongols, riding horses on the ice of the rivers frozen in winter, stopped the whole of Russia, then you can show more patience for other versions. Although, what am I saying? Indeed, faith in science is one of the most powerful types of fanaticism.
    2. Spnsr
      Spnsr 9 February 2016 19: 12
      +1
      Quote: parusnik
      Tell Alexander, how many Samsonov "blacks" work for you ...? It seems that under the name Alexander Samsonov, articles are written by different people ... Up to this point Not “mythical Mongols” came from the East, but Russian relatives read ... no further ..

      too, but here is the interest, from the end of centuries, and more precisely from the end of the 17th to the beginning of the 18th centuries, already Russia, even more likely to begin to form Russia, had administrative divisions, whatever they were, but the fact and why then there is a denial that Until the end of the 16th and beginning of the 17th centuries, the same administrative division could not have that state, which included all the inheritances ?? such as Kievan Rus, Vladimir-Suzdal Rus, and many other principalities?
      1. Glot
        Glot 9 February 2016 19: 36
        -2
        too, but here is the interest, from the end of centuries, and more precisely from the end of the 17th to the beginning of the 18th centuries, already Russia, even more likely to begin to form Russia, had administrative divisions, whatever they were, but the fact and why then there is a denial that Until the end of the 16th and beginning of the 17th centuries, the same administrative division could not have that state, which included all the inheritances ?? such as Kievan Rus, Vladimir-Suzdal Rus, and many other principalities?


        The 18th century, this is the Russian Empire.
        In the 16th - 17th centuries, there was no longer either Vladimir - Suzdal Rus (principality), nor even more so Kievan Rus.
        from the 15th century - Muscovy (Moscow Principality, Moscow Russia) with the former Departments included in it. Not by everyone, but by almost everyone. In the 16th century, the territory of Russia was finally taken from the Litvins, and in the 17th the State was already.
        1. Spnsr
          Spnsr 9 February 2016 21: 17
          0
          Quote: Glot
          The 18th century, this is the Russian Empire.
          In the 16th - 17th centuries, there was no longer either Vladimir - Suzdal Rus (principality), nor even more so Kievan Rus.
          from the 15th century - Muscovy (Moscow Principality, Moscow Russia) with the former Departments included in it. Not by everyone, but by almost everyone. In the 16th century, the territory of Russia was finally taken from the Litvins, and in the 17th the State was already.

          my koment was generalized, you specified it, as there were administrative units in the Russian Empire, so they were before it, they were just called not provinces, but Khanates and / or Russia!
          and all graters with the West or the East, it’s more often a battle for primacy, or if you want for a primogeniture, because the descendants of one ruler ruled both here and there, and primacy passed from the deceased to the eldest, while others did not want to recognize his dominion, because of what there were cuts ....
          this is not another story, this is the same story, only it does not alienate the west and east from Russia, and does not make seniority of the origin of peoples, but rather unites and gives a common history ...
  4. cth; fyn
    cth; fyn 9 February 2016 07: 27
    +2
    Che for heresy, I read how to see it? Who has a memory eraser from people in black?
    1. Furious bambr
      Furious bambr 9 February 2016 10: 15
      +6
      In any liquor store, the eraser of the memory of people in blue wink
      1. cth; fyn
        cth; fyn 9 February 2016 12: 35
        +1
        He doesn’t act on me correctly, I’m starting to forget only what happened after 0,5 liters before that I remember everything ...
        1. Furious bambr
          Furious bambr 9 February 2016 16: 43
          0
          And as in the famous movie (about women) "while I'm sober, I don't notice them, but when I drink my enthusiasm noticeably increases" hi
  5. Kazakh
    Kazakh 9 February 2016 07: 28
    +3
    The Romans built the Roman Empire, the Ottoman Turks, the British, British, and only the Mongols got the IGO. In general, anyone else knows examples of the "yoke" besides the Russian.
    1. Gorinich
      Gorinich 9 February 2016 09: 26
      +2
      The yoke is a purely local term; it is not mentioned in other sources. Yes, and the term itself is recent. By the way, the term horde raises many questions. In translations of synonyms into Russian, this usually means order.
    2. ver_
      ver_ 9 February 2016 10: 20
      -4
      ... to the article about the birds: Mongolia was founded in 1920 ... The Roman Empire is a myth .. Gaius Julius Caesar = George Yuri Dolgoruky .. Mogolia - Great .. Igo - order .. Horde - military order (union) - army Slavs .. Mongolia and Mogul - two big differences .. between them there is a temporary gulf of more than 1000 years ..
      1. Army soldier2
        Army soldier2 9 February 2016 13: 15
        +4
        Very nice alternative story. If anyone does not know, Alexander Nevsky is a bodybuilder Alexander Kurochkin (Nevsky), who failed in the 13th century. fellow
        But seriously, I am moved by alternative readings of history without citing any facts or results of archaeological research. At the same time, it is stated as a postulate that this (generally accepted) story was invented by bad guys. Although, Alexander Samsonov from these same bad guys takes a "tape recording" of Alexander Nevsky's conversation with Batu.
        In the continuation of the article, we will probably dig the Black Sea.
    3. bhdir1946
      bhdir1946 9 February 2016 13: 02
      +3
      It is credited that the term "Igo" was introduced in 1817 by Christopher Kruse in his Atlas of European History (He introduced the scientific term "Mongol-Tatar yoke". And in Russia this owe more to PN Naumov and Karamzin. Could there be a true story , if each ruler ruled it in his own way. And during the reign of the Romanovs especially, forgetting that in the creation of the Russian State the Rurikovichs were also great.
    4. Spnsr
      Spnsr 9 February 2016 20: 12
      0
      Quote: Kazakh
      The Romans built the Roman Empire, the Ottoman Turks, the British, British, and only the Mongols got the IGO. In general, anyone else knows examples of the "yoke" besides the Russian.

      I know, Soviet, and I heard at the end of the 20th century the myth of enslaved peoples, which thoroughly cleared the brain of "enslaved" peoples, so that some representatives of these peoples are still trying to get rid of the "shackles of slavery" (Ukraine)
      and about the Turks, as a nation, they appeared not so long ago, and before that it was a mass of other peoples, and it was also not so long ago !!!
  6. Riv
    Riv 9 February 2016 07: 33
    +5
    Hyperborea ... Arias ... Russian Tatars ... "Ostap carried."
  7. inkass_98
    inkass_98 9 February 2016 07: 35
    +5
    Alexander, you have talent, of course, but this is the talent of a publicist. The main problem in your writings is peremptory judgments, I have already mentioned this somehow. And this is not good, since there should always be a place for doubts, especially in works that claim a revolution in fundamental science. And you chop off your shoulder, not having any reliably confirmed facts, not relying on material sources and monuments. Yes, Alexander was in the Horde, yes, he was well received there, but how did it all end? According to one version, he, like his father, was poisoned, according to another, he simply became ill and died on the way back from the Horde home. And this has documentary evidence.
    And about the Scythian Hordes - these are all your speculations at the Kulikovo field level - the Kulichka district near Moscow then and other delights from all the same Fomenko and Nosovsky. Zero facts.
    1. Villon
      Villon 9 February 2016 15: 16
      -1
      Quote: inkass_98
      And about the Scythian Hordes - these are all your speculations at the Kulikovo field level - the Kulichka district near Moscow then and other delights from all the same Fomenko and Nosovsky. Zero facts.

      Dear inkass_98, where are your facts? After all, the Kulikov field was never found. And with Fomenko everything is not so simple. Fomenko was looking for historical takes, relying on mathematical methods. That is, there should be several "Kulikov fields".
  8. Yereke
    Yereke 9 February 2016 07: 36
    0
    he became a "traitor" for Russian historians, because he had family ties with his mother's relatives with the Polovtsians and his wife was a Polovtsy and was friends with the Turks ("Mongols"), thanks to this the rear was reliable and defended Orthodoxy from Catholics .. in short, the same European Union was advancing, but thanks to the help of the Turks, he later expanded the borders in the west, for this he was not forgiven by the liberals "Russian historians" such as Miller and others.

    Cossacks are the remnants of that horde whose slang is 50% more Turkic .. that were related to the current Kazakhs, and then the Kazakhs were formerly called Cossacks, they were later renamed Kazakhs in the 30s in the USSR and it does not seem strange that the Kazakhs saved the land that has 9th square in the world between two empires ..
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 9 February 2016 08: 23
      +6
      Quote: Ereke
      in short, the same European Union was advancing, but thanks to the help of the Turks, he later expanded the borders in the west, for which liberals "Russian historians" such as Miller and others did not forgive him.

      And how Ukrainian historians do not forgive .... after all, Alexander Nevsky was officially the last Grand Duke of Kiev! And I didn’t miss it in Europe! And in the Ukrainian there is no way to remake it wassat
      1. Bashibuzuk
        Bashibuzuk 9 February 2016 09: 53
        +6
        And why is the wife - a ladie ... you can find out?
        Polovchanka ..
        Not a polonyanka, definitely, this is a captive ...
        the man is a Polovtsian.
        woman is a Polovka.
        You can still - polovenka, polovyanka .... that automatically displays us on - polovinka ....
        .
        ate ... linguist, damn it ... wassat ....I AM
        1. KBR109
          KBR109 9 February 2016 11: 24
          +2
          The ladie! laughing Damn - all day a good mood. But here is one of two things - either a swimmer or a Polovchatka! Thank you - I didn’t even pay attention - diagonally ran nonsense.
    2. Voice of the Mind
      Voice of the Mind 9 February 2016 11: 27
      +1
      Quote: Ereke
      for this he was not forgiven by the liberals "Russian historians"

      You see, the average Russian in Europe does not stand out from the crowd, unlike Asians.
      The loss of statehood for 300 years and the status of the conquered people is also not comme il faut.
      Especially in comparison with the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, which were not conquered and did not become Catholics.
      To everything else, not so fundamentally Catholics or Orthodox. Faith is one - Christian, slightly different in rites. And everything else is pure from the evil one, since the church is a human institution, and the difference is that one must obey either the Pope or the Ecumenical Patriarch
      1. bhdir1946
        bhdir1946 9 February 2016 13: 15
        +1
        It’s just someone to pay: to the Pope or the Father. And the Almighty Creator is One. Here they are sharing a flock with each other. Until we understand and find the truth, But historians and Fathers of the Church are not interested in this, we will fight with each other. FAITH (!) And Religion is not the same thing.
        And Alexander Nevsky is and will be a historical figure!
    3. Kazakh
      Kazakh 9 February 2016 14: 44
      +4
      Quote: Ereke
      Kazakhs used to be called Cossacks
      They used to be called Kyrgyz Kaisaks. And the 9th square appeared thanks to the Communists (Brezhnev) when the Pavlodar East Kazakhstan Semipalatinsk Ural Petropavlovsk Region became Kazakhstan
      1. Yereke
        Yereke 9 February 2016 18: 24
        -1
        yes the tsarist ignoramus or specially on a divide rule rule we were called Kyrgyz-kaisaks, they returned the name after the USSR, although this dock say something -https: //vk.com/wall-60453117? offset = 280 & own = 1 & z = photo-60453117_314665249% 2wall
        -60453117_33
        "Pavlodar East Kazakhstan Semipalatinsk Ural Petropavlovsk region became Kazakhstan" - yes, if you are Kazakh, then I am Uzbek ..... I still said that Orenburg was our capital under the Kazakh SSR until it was taken away, not to mention Omba (Snowy or Omsk), Tomen (Nizhny or Tyumen), Sarytau (Yellow Mountain-Saratov), ​​Astyrtthan (Astarkhan) .. my ancestors are from the Saratov region, Aleksandrov-Gai where 70% of the inhabitants were Kazakhs in 2000 .. you think where They are there? fell from the sky? !! they live in their native land until they were taken away
  9. Diviz
    Diviz 9 February 2016 09: 02
    -6
    http://derzhavarus.ru/letoischislenie.html вот славяне как раньше ориентировались во времени. А Татары монголы не могли жить на севере поэтому и не дошли до северных городов руси. А вот кто их натравил на нас и кого или что они хотели уничтожить это другой вопрос. Ответ может Китай создал буферную армию в 1 т н э. Так как Китай сам воевал с гунами. гуны это славяне если помните брали Рим в 4в н э.
    1. Mugs
      Mugs 9 February 2016 10: 48
      0
      China fought not with the Huns, but with the Huns. The Huns appeared later, as a result of the merger of part of the Hunnu people who migrated to the Urals, with the Ugrians (they write that, possibly, with the Sarmatians as well).
  10. novel66
    novel66 9 February 2016 09: 03
    +3
    it was "Mongol-Tatarism" that annoyed me from school already, did any of the inventors of this term look at the map? what the fuck are the Mongols in the steppes of Ukraine? fooled the people for how long and still crammed in their brains like firmware. and the Mongols still consider themselves great.
    1. ver_
      ver_ 9 February 2016 10: 35
      0
      Mongolia was founded in 1920 - draw your own conclusions ..
    2. Voice of the Mind
      Voice of the Mind 9 February 2016 11: 18
      +1
      Yes, just that. They are the Mongols. But the Chinese of the Mongols 鞑靼 called the Tatars. By the name of one of the tribes. Hence the Mongol-Tatars
      1. Villon
        Villon 9 February 2016 15: 21
        +1
        Quote: Voice of the Mind
        Yes, just that. They are the Mongols. But the Chinese of the Mongols 鞑靼 called the Tatars. By the name of one of the tribes. Hence the Mongol-Tatars

        Well, of course, if the Chinese called the Mongols Tatars, then the Russians would certainly have called the Mongols Mongols-Tatars out of one respect for the Chinese.
        1. Voice of the Mind
          Voice of the Mind 9 February 2016 16: 59
          +1
          Quote: Villon
          Well, of course, if the Chinese called the Mongols Tatars, then the Russians would certainly have called the Mongols Mongols-Tatars out of one respect for the Chinese.

          OK) I'll put it on my fingers.
          How does China defeat opponents throughout its history? Submits and assimilates
          China's main conquest of the Mongols
          After the collapse of the Mongol Empire, relations between the newly-formed states did not stop.
          So there is nothing strange that the Mongols assimilated by China began to mention the name "Tatars"
          1. Villon
            Villon 9 February 2016 21: 50
            0
            Quote: Voice of Mind
            there is nothing strange that the Mongols assimilated by China began to mention the name "Tatars"

            It is clear that the Chinese could call them either the Mongols or the Tatars. Well, why did the Russians need to call them Mongol-Tatars? Russians are not Chinese.
      2. Yereke
        Yereke 9 February 2016 18: 28
        -1
        everyone is so smart here .. at least bother that the name of the Mongol even KHAN did not HAVE !!! all names - terms - titles TURKEY .. then they all attributed to the Mongols, so as not to let the Turks perk up.
  11. Penzuck
    Penzuck 9 February 2016 09: 08
    +3
    "Then they brought him to the khan's tent and Batu asked:" Why, prince, not afraid of death, refused to perform our rituals? " “The Great Khan,” answered the Russian warrior-prince, “our Holy Scripture says:“ No one can serve two masters: for either he will hate one and love the other; or he will be zealous for one, but not take care of the other. You cannot serve God and mammon (wealth, money-grubbing). ”After finishing such a short speech, Prince Alexander Yaroslavich bowed to Khan Batu and continued:“ I worship you, because you are a man and a king, but I will not bow to the creature. And the Holy Warrior (as the Horde After Genghis Khan's death, without uttering the name of the greatest conqueror of world history), he recognized the faith of foreigners in his laws. But we receive Orthodoxy from birth from our ancestors and ask: not who are you by blood, but how do you believe? But we also know something else that with the Almighty, all faiths are equal. And the Russian people living together with other peoples do not force them to change their beliefs. " - This piece of the article proves the relative peacefulness of the spread of Orthodoxy in Russia.

    "Only a regular and large tribute from the Russian lands could keep the steppe tsars from new punitive campaigns against the principalities of Russia." - That is, there is a constant threat of ruin and extortion, which, in fact, is the IGO EXISTING.
    "The Horde were Caucasians, carriers of the same anthropological, cultural, linguistic traditions," - AS and other Indo-Europeans. What does it change? The fact that we were subdued by the "heirs of the Scythia"? And the Bulgars? Khazars? Mordva? Burtases? Caucasians by the way ... that the nomadic Rus attacked them from the east?
    1. novel66
      novel66 9 February 2016 09: 23
      +4
      something still changes. the invasion of nearby states is, in general, an ordinary thing. but the nomadic raid for 6000 km is nonsense!
      1. Mr. Pip
        Mr. Pip 9 February 2016 09: 43
        0
        Quote: novel xnumx
        the invasion of nearby states is, in general, an ordinary thing. but the nomadic raid for 6000 km is nonsense!

        Yeshkin cat, well, they did not run these thousands of kilometers "in transit", but with a "shift of the border" fellow
        Or do you think that if from Moscow to Vladivostok thousands of kilometers, then any war with Japan is also a raid for thousands of kilometers? request
        1. novel66
          novel66 9 February 2016 09: 59
          +4
          the war with Japan was in the era of railways. a bit different
          1. Mr. Pip
            Mr. Pip 9 February 2016 10: 03
            0
            Quote: novel xnumx
            the war with Japan was in the era of railways

            Well, yes, and even the guns and tanks that required these same railways to supply fuel and other yam - the Mongols' stables also probably brought grass from Mongolia, local varieties, fastidious, didn’t eat?
            Or did the Mongols have a monthly vacation in the Gobi desert in the labor code? request
            1. novel66
              novel66 9 February 2016 14: 09
              +3
              let's talk about the sad thing - about the economy. By virtue of their way of life, nomads cannot unite into large hordes - the cattle will die out from lack of food (and there cannot be a lot of nomads - space is needed for cattle) how many "Mongols" came to Russia? Until now, historians are lost - say a little - but how did you win? say a lot - what about the economy? all delirium disappears at once if we take as a basis the idea of ​​bashi-bazuka a little lower.
              1. Penzuck
                Penzuck 9 February 2016 15: 01
                0
                http://ru.vom.mn/i/10732
                Read enlighten.
                There are pictures of the sea with horses and you can count them on the photo. And given that this is only one herd bully
                Quote: novel xnumx
                let's talk about the sad - about the economy. by virtue of their way of life, nomads cannot unite in large hordes -

                C'mon.
              2. Mr. Pip
                Mr. Pip 9 February 2016 15: 36
                -2
                Quote: novel xnumx
                let's talk about the sad - about the economy. by virtue of their way of life, nomads cannot unite into large hordes - cattle will die out from a nodule

                What kind of cattle? The army marched, but not nomads with cattle - and then again, they did not "transit", but seizing city-countries along the road - and there the feed and the rest of the nyamki and at the time of the attack on Russia the "border" of the Mongol Empire was no longer thousands of kilometers was from Russia.
                1. novel66
                  novel66 9 February 2016 17: 45
                  +3
                  and how many years did they go to Russia in such a way leaving families and cattle - corny ate what? were you hunting?
                  1. Mr. Pip
                    Mr. Pip 9 February 2016 18: 34
                    0
                    Quote: novel xnumx
                    and how many years did they go to Russia in this way

                    Wikipedia can with these questions:
                    in 1206, Genghis Khan was elected.
                    in 1226 the battle of Kalka.
                    in 1237–1240 the invasion and conquest itself.
                    Quote: novel xnumx
                    leaving families and cattle - corny eating what? were you hunting?

                    No, we went to McDonald’s, right with their families, then on every corner there were laughing
                    In general, in order not to ask difficult questions, take into account that they are nomads and imagine that they drank koumiss and ate horse meat, and they also robbed along the city road, starting from China itself - and there ALWAYS been EATING and PIT!
                    1. activator
                      activator 9 February 2016 18: 41
                      -1
                      Quote: Mr. PIP
                      Wikipedia can with these questions:
                      in 1206, Genghis Khan was elected.
                      in 1226 the battle of Kalka.
                      in 1237-1240 the invasion itself and conquered

                      Yeah, it was Genghis Khan himself who made the entry on Wikipedia. yes
                      1. novel66
                        novel66 9 February 2016 21: 08
                        +2
                        not Genghis Khan himself, but grateful Mongols! 20 years went and why the heck - was there no one to rob more?
    2. ver_
      ver_ 9 February 2016 10: 45
      -7
      ... it's all bullshit Alexander Nevsky, the beloved son of Yaroslav = Khan Batu - caught up and executed his brother Andrey for deviating from the faith of the Slavs - then the "Westerners" tried to plant the cult of Christ ...
  12. Bersaglieri
    Bersaglieri 9 February 2016 09: 26
    +5
    Again the "Hyperborean plague" has reached the resource. With Yog, of course, the question is complicated, but the nonsense "quasi-patriotic" in the style of Chudinov and Co., "ancient ukrov", "dolboslavians" and other, stupid and sick people should not be broadcast. Article - "minus"
  13. Bashibuzuk
    Bashibuzuk 9 February 2016 09: 35
    +6
    Patterns are torn before our eyes .. wassat
    That is the myth "about the Tatar-Mongols" who, they say, at this time of the current-current from the trees, oh, damn it, I beg your pardon, they got off the saxauls ..
    That is the great and terrible Goodwin ... oh, damn it, Batu.
    .
    No guys, let’s do one thing ... yes - yes, no - no.
    And such wagging doesn’t roll.
    .
    So I, for my part, would ask respected Mangal Alys to prepare material on the development of the Bulgarian Khanate, the kingdom, the Kaganate .. as right .. Bulgaria, in general.
    It seems to me that there is similar material from our comrade-in-arms.
    From TI it is known that the Mongols initially defeated Bulgaria.
    And for some reason I think that it was an ordinary shy, they divided power completely.
    And, there were, in Bulgaria, some such - ISIS, Mongolians, in short.
    And the roofing felts, the Russian principalities there didn’t interfere, or did not intervene at all - so the victors (known to us as the Mongols) took and took revenge on George.
    Yes, and others who did not scratch themselves in time.
    .
    Why do I think so? Precisely because throughout the history we have been tumbling together - Russians, Tatars, Bashkirs, Kazakhs, Udmurts .... all together, in short.
    And I would rather believe that all this mysticism with the Mongols is purely our internal affair than that the invincible ones have piled up from somewhere onon and kerulen ... who knows who.
    .
    How to offer?
    1. novel66
      novel66 9 February 2016 10: 01
      +2
      bravo, my friend !!! better not say !!
    2. Mangel olys
      Mangel olys 9 February 2016 10: 21
      +3
      Quote: Bashibuzuk
      So I, for my part, would ask the respected Mangal Olys to prepare material on the development of the Bulgarian Khanate, the kingdom, the Kaganate ... as right .. Bulgaria, in general.

      Noted, Igor Vladimirovich. All the same, once it is necessary to carry the truth to the masses that modern Tatars are not Bulgars at all, as they tried to imagine in official history and still clog their heads to young generations. In general, I’ll get together somehow, I promise.
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 9 February 2016 22: 33
        0
        Not somehow - but rather, sit down and work! Near the Kremlin there is a wonderful museum of the history of Tatarstan, there are excellent reconstructions there, there are also things to shoot in the Kremlin itself. And on the banks of the river, in the former museum of V.I. Lenin, excellent materials.
  14. Aitvaras
    Aitvaras 9 February 2016 09: 44
    +4
    The author is very dilettante trying to prove that the Mongols were not Turkic tribes but Scythians and to believe in the fantastic abilities of Alexander Nevsky, to foresee the future - standing on the Ugra River, in the middle of the 15th century. In my opinion, everything is very simple, it's like supporting the approval of President Putin about Russians - "rub any Russian, and there is a Tatar." Generally, an article for readers of children.
  15. baudolino
    baudolino 9 February 2016 09: 46
    +4
    Do not dilute the story so thickly with propaganda. It’s not tasty.
    1. KBR109
      KBR109 9 February 2016 11: 34
      -2
      Shaggy ears stick out of OOO ROC. As I now remember the high-temperature delirium of a certain citizen, who said that "before the arrival of the true faith, the wild people rode through the trees like monkeys." However, I cannot vouch for the absolute accuracy of the quote. Handsome peremptory and illiterate. He just took himself - and lowered it.
  16. Mr. Pip
    Mr. Pip 9 February 2016 09: 48
    +3
    What a horror crying
    And then what will happen, the tanks of the Mongols or a nuclear war between the khans and separatists of Rurikovich belay
  17. Icebreaker
    Icebreaker 9 February 2016 09: 58
    +6
    Yes ... After the phrase "mythical Tatar-Mongol invasion" I stopped reading ... negative
    Of course, I understand - the master is the master, but why publish this on a fairly serious resource? There are many specialized sites for those who carry the truth to the masses ...
    1. Villon
      Villon 9 February 2016 15: 31
      0
      Quote: Icebreaker
      Yes ... After the phrase "mythical Tatar-Mongol invasion" I stopped reading ... negative
      Of course, I understand - the master is the master, but why publish this on a fairly serious resource? There are many specialized sites for those who carry the truth to the masses ...

      Would you, of course, read about the Tatar-Mongol yoke on this "rather serious resource", where a fairy tale is a fairy tale, and at the mention of which the historians themselves shyly avert their eyes and remain silent?
      1. Glot
        Glot 9 February 2016 16: 32
        0
        Would you, of course, read about the Tatar-Mongol yoke on this "rather serious resource", where a fairy tale is a fairy tale, and at the mention of which the historians themselves shyly avert their eyes and remain silent?


        Hmm, interestingly, is it someone who is bashfully looking away and silent? laughing
        Have you ever read any of the scholars-historians on this topic?
        Read Borisov, Gorsky, Averyanov, Azbelev, Seleznev, Amelkin, Grishin, Egorov, Kramarovsky, Kuchkin, Rudakov, Rakhimzyanov, and many, many others. Also, the Complete Collection of Russian Annals also helps you!
        And don't talk nonsense about "bashful eyes and silence".
        If you personally want to believe that all these are fairy tales, for unknown reasons, then this is your right. But you should not impose it on others, all the more blaming a large number of people, scientists, historians for the sake of their illiteracy or stupidity in silence and bashfulness!
        1. Villon
          Villon 10 February 2016 15: 00
          +1
          Quote: Glot
          Would you, of course, read about the Tatar-Mongol yoke on this "rather serious resource", where a fairy tale is a fairy tale, and at the mention of which the historians themselves shyly avert their eyes and remain silent?


          Hmm, interestingly, is it someone who is bashfully looking away and silent? laughing
          Have you ever read any of the scholars-historians on this topic?
          Read Borisov, Gorsky, Averyanov, Azbelev, Seleznev, Amelkin, Grishin, Egorov, Kramarovsky, Kuchkin, Rudakov, Rakhimzyanov, and many, many others. Also, the Complete Collection of Russian Annals also helps you!
          And don't talk nonsense about "bashful eyes and silence".
          If you personally want to believe that all these are fairy tales, for unknown reasons, then this is your right. But you should not impose it on others, all the more blaming a large number of people, scientists, historians for the sake of their illiteracy or stupidity in silence and bashfulness!

          You're wrong. I do not believe. And the "historians." And they impose their faith on others. In particular for children. Indeed, according to the textbooks that these "historians-scientists" write, children then learn history. So it’s not necessary from healthy to healthy.
          The list of “historians” you have given is impressive. Fear prevails. Well, they can’t, just so many people can’t be wrong. Why not? There were no examples in history? Isn’t Galilee the scientists forced to recant?
          Why did you add Russian chroniclers to the list of “scholars-historians”? Indeed, at the time when they were writing, there was no history as a profession, and they simply could not be historians.
          But in general, are you sure that you have given a complete list of “historians”? Or is it just the ones you yourself read?
      2. The comment was deleted.
  18. Stas57
    Stas57 9 February 2016 10: 10
    +1
    Wild, naive, marvelous folkhistorical nonsense.
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 9 February 2016 12: 33
      +4
      Quote: Stas57
      Wild, naive, marvelous folkhistorical nonsense.

      Stas,
      hi
      it is worse.
      This is an in-depth discreditation of both Russian history and Russia-Russia as such - they declare the Red Army, which liberated the Baltic states and Psheks, as occupying. Demolished monuments to the soldiers-liberators. And in Wonderland 404, they also erect monuments and name the streets in honor of the executioners of their own people.
      1. Stas57
        Stas57 9 February 2016 14: 11
        +4
        What the hell then is it here, I published an article on 41 near Moscow, they rejected it, and such diarrhea is here for joy? Where is the resource heading?
        1. stalkerwalker
          stalkerwalker 9 February 2016 14: 16
          +3
          The world conspiracy of admins ... wassat
          At Politicus, 2 days in a row discussed nonsense similar to this one. fellow
  19. vitalm
    vitalm 9 February 2016 10: 20
    +4
    Of course a mythical invasion. Something cannot be found in the blood of Russians by Mongolian genes. If they were in our blood, we would all be mestizos. What kind of invasion is this, even the women were not touched, or did they all have an abortion? Look at the western hemisphere, there are some mulattos and mestizos, a purebred Indians cat wept
    1. alebor
      alebor 9 February 2016 11: 02
      0
      The Orthodox people did not enter into marriages with the Mongol-Tatars and, therefore, did not mix with them. It would even physically be difficult to implement, since the Tatars did not live in Russia, but lived in their Horde. As for "casual relationships" during the raids, firstly, the overwhelming majority of the population lived in villages that were of little interest to those wishing to rob, but most importantly, the girls then entered into marriage almost before puberty, and if a woman could become pregnant, she was has long been pregnant by her husband. But the numerous Russian prisoners driven into the Horde could really influence the gene pool of the conquerors. So associations with South America, where people of different races live interspersed, are inappropriate here.
      1. vitalm
        vitalm 9 February 2016 11: 38
        0
        Quote: alebor
        The Orthodox people did not marry with the Mongol Tatars and, therefore, did not mix with them. It would even be physically difficult to implement, since the Tatars did not live in Russia, but lived in their Horde

        So no one has raped anyone. Interesting and tolerant conquerors of the Mongols laughing
        But what about the yoke in 300 years. Where are the documents in our archives in Old Mongolian, where are the tamgas in their language. Isn’t it preserved? The Mongols also have nothing. In Mongolia, the cat wept. To place an army of 100 tons of people + 3 horses for each, not to mention production. They lived there in the wild, and now live.
        1. Penzuck
          Penzuck 9 February 2016 13: 27
          +4
          Quote: vitalm
          So no one has raped anyone.

          Like came raped and left? oh well ... a woman is a valuable commodity ...
          Quote: vitalm
          But what about the yoke in 300 years. Where are the documents in our archives in Old Mongolian, where are the tamgas in their language. Isn’t it preserved?

          Did we have a "Mongolian" administration? Russians were ruled by Russians.
          Quote: vitalm
          In Mongolia, the cat wept

          And how do you think the Crimea 100 000 soldiers exhibited at Grozny? And this is only the Crimea, and Nogai? and the rest? In addition, the steppes of the Wild Field - Chernozem. And the climate is better than the Gobi desert, and besides who destroyed Samarkand with Khorezm? In warm countries there are many people, and the losers replenished the Mongol army, whether it be Chinese or Central Asians, or residents of the Volga region. And along the way, intermediate bases were created.
          1. Spnsr
            Spnsr 10 February 2016 20: 04
            0
            Quote: Penzuck
            And how do you think Crimea exhibited 100 soldiers under Grozny?

            actually Crimea, as now, is not only Crimean Tatars!
            Quote: Penzuck
            and besides Samarkand with Khorezm who destroyed?

            if you draw an analogy and possibly a line, Turkestan was part of the Russian Empire, and this is the Cossacks!
            Quote: Penzuck
            In warm countries there are many people, and the losers replenished the Mongol army, whether it be Chinese or Central Asians, or residents of the Volga region.

            a little earlier, when there was still the Cossacks, it was like the Cossack ... and it included tithe with blood, this is when a tenth of the male population was taken away to serve! ...
        2. Spnsr
          Spnsr 10 February 2016 15: 47
          0
          Quote: vitalm
          Quote: alebor
          The Orthodox people did not marry with the Mongol Tatars and, therefore, did not mix with them. It would even be physically difficult to implement, since the Tatars did not live in Russia, but lived in their Horde

          So no one has raped anyone. Interesting and tolerant conquerors of the Mongols laughing
          But what about the yoke in 300 years. Where are the documents in our archives in Old Mongolian, where are the tamgas in their language. Isn’t it preserved? The Mongols also have nothing. In Mongolia, the cat wept. To place an army of 100 tons of people + 3 horses for each, not to mention production. They lived there in the wild, and now live.

          but there is another population that both the Romanovs and the Soviet government tried to denigrate, or change consciousness through the substitution of history, this is the Cossacks ...
          the principle of building military duty was adopted by all nations, one might not even have learned, but inherited, taken the same Ottoman Empire, Romanov’s Russia, or any other state that appeared after the turmoil on the territory of Eurasia!
          and this was expressed in the obligatory military service of the nobility ...
      2. Pomeranian
        Pomeranian 9 February 2016 12: 17
        0
        Quote: alebor
        The Orthodox people did not marry with the Mongol Tatars and, therefore, did not mix with them.

        Boris Godunov who by nationality, recall? And Saint Paphnutius of Borovsky from whom was born? Nonsense, sorry, they wrote.
        1. Penzuck
          Penzuck 9 February 2016 13: 33
          -2
          Quote: Pomoryanin
          Boris Godunov who is by nationality

          - is he a pagan? And Semen Bekbulatovich? Boris and Semyon names ORTHODOX.
          Mother of Prince Andrei Bogolyubsky - POLOVCHANKA - converted to Orthodoxy.
          With pagans, once again they did not marry, did not get married.
          Quote: Pomoryanin
          Nonsense, sorry

          Nu-nu.
          1. Pomeranian
            Pomeranian 9 February 2016 13: 42
            +2
            Quote: Penzuck
            With pagans, once again they did not marry, did not get married.

            And, so you think that the baptized Tatar ceases to be a Tatar? And there were many Christians among the Horde, for example, the son of Batu Sartak.
            Quote: alebor
            The Orthodox people did not marry with the Mongol Tatars and, therefore, did not mix with them.

            Again, I’ll ask about the aforementioned saint: is his father a dove or a Khan's Baskak ?? In a word, the Russian krovushka with the descendants of the Horde conquerors interfered. Will you argue?
            1. Penzuck
              Penzuck 9 February 2016 14: 20
              0
              Rev. Paphnutius was born about 1395 years in the village of Kudinovo near Borovsk. His parents John and Photinia there were pious and God-fearing people who raised a son named in baptism Parthenius, in reverence and fear of God. Grandfather Rev. was a Tatar Baskak, adopted the Orthodox Christian faith with the name of Martin and left to live in Russia in the village of Kudinovo granted to him.

              Source: http://www.pafnuty-abbey.ru/about/pafnuty/

              Not only did he become a Christian, he also remained in Russia and had a nobility, the majority of the Russian population were peasants.
              What are those not clear?
              1. Pomeranian
                Pomeranian 9 February 2016 14: 24
                0
                Quote: alebor
                The Orthodox people did not marry with the Mongol Tatars and, therefore, did not mix with them.

                Quote: Penzuck
                Not only did he become a Christian, he also remained in Russia and had a nobility, the majority of the Russian population were peasants.
                What are those not clear?

                Everything is clear to me. The above author - no.
                1. Penzuck
                  Penzuck 9 February 2016 14: 42
                  -1
                  Quote: Pomoryanin
                  Everything is clear to me.
                  nude

                  Quote: Pomoryanin
                  The above author - no.

                  there are two of them actually alebor and I, who is slandering?
                  1. Pomeranian
                    Pomeranian 9 February 2016 15: 28
                    0
                    Quote: Penzuck
                    nude

                    What are the doubts? Sound it.
                    Quote: Penzuck
                    there are two of them actually alebor and I, who is slandering?

                    Actually, not slander, but a search for historical truth. I challenged alebor's version. And for some reason you have soared. What is my wrong: is that the Russians and the Horde married and had viable offspring?
                    Quote: Penzuck
                    With pagans, once again they did not marry, did not get married.

                    Quote: Penzuck
                    The Monk’s grandfather was a Tatar Baskak who adopted the Orthodox Christian faith with the name of Martin and left to live in Russia in the village of Kudinovo granted to him.

                    Actually, I defend this point of view. And wrong again ??
                    1. Penzuck
                      Penzuck 10 February 2016 07: 50
                      0
                      Quote: vitalm
                      Of course a mythical invasion. Something cannot be found in the blood of Russians by Mongolian genes. If they were in our blood, we would all be mestizos. What kind of invasion is this, even the women were not touched, or did they all have an abortion? Look at the western hemisphere, there are some mulattos and mestizos, a purebred Indians cat wept

                      Well, actually, if you have not read the first comment ...
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. revnagan
      revnagan 9 February 2016 12: 51
      +5
      Quote: vitalm
      Of course a mythical invasion. Something cannot be found in the blood of Russians by Mongolian genes.

      Of course, mythical. A layer of conflagration, dated by archaeologists in 1241 on the site of the Kiev settlement-fiction. Notes of the Franciscan Plano Carpini, who visited Kiev in 1244 and wrote that there were hardly 200 yards left there-fiction and myth (despite the fact that in 1240 in Kiev lived about 50 thousand people). "Self-immolated" and "self-cut." Well, this is true for Kiev today.
      1. novel66
        novel66 9 February 2016 15: 03
        +2
        and who said that these are the Mongols? Little Russian Russian cut? and the Mongolian carpini from Tatar (and from Russian too) will distinguish?
    4. would
      would 9 February 2016 14: 18
      +2
      As for genes, it is not so simple. There is such a thing as a haplogroup and it seems that every nation has its own ... only this is not so. Everything is much more complicated with haplogroups and was required

      even the women were not touched, or did they all have an abortion?


      I want to remind you that after the likely such violence, many women stupidly did not survive. And not even because they were killed, but because they were dying from their injuries. There were no conventions at that time, and not one man was gentlely raped. I recommend looking at ISIS where it’s about the same now, but not so tough. Someone was killed after. And someone was taken into slavery and, of course, not to Moscow. As for abortions, by the way, I can easily believe as well as suicides.

      In order for a certain distinctive haplogroup to remain in the genotype of the Russian people, it would be necessary to have a massive mix with viable offspring. There could be an invasion, but without it. Well, as noted by other comrades, there are many facts of the invasion.
      1. Pomeranian
        Pomeranian 9 February 2016 14: 20
        +1
        http://www.xpomo.com/ruskolan/rasa/rus_face.htm
        Read at your leisure. Extremely entertaining mother. smile
  20. Cartalon
    Cartalon 9 February 2016 10: 30
    +3
    Alexander Nevsky was very surprised to read all this, the whole man fought as it should be and intrigued in the interests of his family and his offspring, and even after becoming kings of all Russia, he took care of his glory and holiness
    1. KBR109
      KBR109 9 February 2016 11: 36
      0
      And the offspring and the church. He retained spiritual authority for her. For which she is grateful to this day.
    2. AK64
      AK64 9 February 2016 17: 36
      0
      Alexander Nevsky was very surprised to read all this, the whole man fought as it should be and intrigued in the interests of his family and his offspring, and even after becoming kings of all Russia, he took care of his glory and holiness


      Well, then: he judges everything else by himself.
      And then say: after all, the same thing, exactly the same thing, we can say about any hero. And not only a hero, but also any saint. And when such disgusting things as yours are in your head, we’ll say A. Matrosov to blame for personal gain.

      But the trick is that there were a lot of princes in Russia before and after - but for some reason, the activities of Alexander Yaroslavich had such an impact on all subsequent Russian history.

      But there was Andrey - and to the point? Was Roman Galitsky - and to the point? It means that it was Alexander who acted "in the interests of the genus and posterity" correctly.
      And therefore he is a saint.
      You are not.
    3. The comment was deleted.
  21. ivanovbg
    ivanovbg 9 February 2016 10: 42
    +4
    The largest Orthodox church on the Balkan Peninsula - the Patriarchal Cathedral of the Bulgarian Orthodox Church in the capital Sofia - is named after St. Prince Alexander Nevsky. The pro-Western forces are trying very hard to blacken the name of the Holy Prince, in order to rename the church to one of the Bulgarian saints, because the name of the Russian is very annoying to their eyes and ears. Russophobes in Bulgaria exactly repeat all the accusations of Russian liberals, which the author listed here - that Bulgarians bow down in the name of a "servant" of the Horde and, in general, a traitor to Orthodoxy, who "begged from the Horde a label to reign at the cost of the blood of their brothers.
  22. alebor
    alebor 9 February 2016 11: 16
    +6
    In the annals telling about the invasion, phrases like: "foreigners, glagolemia Tatarov" are constantly used. That is, the chroniclers who lived at that time unambiguously saw the Tatars as foreigners. But, as they say, "the big is seen at a distance" and A. Samsonov, who lives after 800 years and has never seen these notorious Mongol-Tatars, should know better. If he says that they were "relatives of the Russians," then they are. wink
  23. Edvagan
    Edvagan 9 February 2016 11: 37
    +5
    tired of trying to make Russians the heirs of the Scythians and Hyperboreans. So close to the allegations that the Russians dug up the Baltic Sea, and Troy was near Pskov))) you do not need to be compared to Ukrainian science fiction historians, you need to honor the story and use only proven proven facts. I quit reading the article after the words about Hyperborea, although the assessments of the contribution of Alexander Nevsky to the development of Russia as a whole are correct, they were expressed by L.N. Gumilyov.
  24. Voice of the Mind
    Voice of the Mind 9 February 2016 11: 50
    -7
    There are several particularly long-lived myths from Russian history. For any malomalski literate and interested (even superficially) person, it is obvious:
    -Alexander Nevsky honestly served the Tatars, attacked the Russian principalities with Tatar regiments. So who is he? hero?
    -Dmitry Donskoy, by order of Khan Tokhtamysh, gathered an army against the rebellious Khan Mamaia. And Tokhtamysh thanked in a peculiar way - he burned Moscow in 2 years, so that they would not dare to raise his hand to the Tatars
    -Alexander 1 declared war on Napoleon.
    -Kutuzov is a disgusting commander and according to the memoirs of his contemporaries and objective assessment
    - We lost the battle of Borodino. Since they retreated and surrendered Moscow.
    -Stalin was really preparing to attack Germany. And the USSR 2 times turned to the League of Nations with a request to let troops through the territory of countries to attack Germany
    - Zhukov is personally to blame for the defeat of 1941, having issued an order "not to succumb to provocations, not to open fire."
    well, etc.
    1. Pomeranian
      Pomeranian 9 February 2016 12: 13
      +1
      Quote: Voice of Mind
      And the USSR 2 times appealed to the League of Nations with a request to let troops through the territory of countries to attack Germany

      I didn’t put a little plus for you. But after this masterpiece - fire.
      1. activator
        activator 9 February 2016 12: 29
        +4
        Quote: Pomoryanin
        Quote: Voice of Mind
        And the USSR 2 times appealed to the League of Nations with a request to let troops through the territory of countries to attack Germany

        I didn’t put a little plus for you. But after this masterpiece - fire.

        I read that the USSR turned to Poland so that it would be possible to go through its territory for the defense of Czechoslovakia, or not.
        1. Pomeranian
          Pomeranian 9 February 2016 12: 50
          0
          Quote: activator
          that the Soviet Union turned to Poland so that you could go through its territory to protect Czechoslovakia, or not xs.

          Yes, this option was considered. But just as an option. In order to come to the aid of Czechoslovakia, it needed support from the second Czechoslovak ally - France and, of course, the request of the Czech Republic itself. But the USSR did not wait for a request from the Benes government. And about appeals to the League of Nations and Poland - you were incorrectly informed.
          1. activator
            activator 9 February 2016 13: 01
            +1
            Quote: Pomoryanin
            and Poland - you were incorrectly informed.

            Yes, I would not say otherwise and therefore I wrote xs, but the fact that Poland did not miss the chance and chopped off a piece from Czechoslovakia is a fact, respectively, the interests of Poland and the USSR did not coincide
            1. Pomeranian
              Pomeranian 9 February 2016 13: 17
              0
              Quote: activator
              Yes, I would not say otherwise and therefore wrote xs

              You wrote everything correctly. I read about "Stalin's requests to the Polish government" in the stupid Rezun, and in several thoroughly "universal" publications. But in fact, it was not Poland that had to decide on the passage of troops, but Czechoslovakia, France and the USSR. In addition, there was a transit route through Romania past the ambassadors ...
      2. Voice of the Mind
        Voice of the Mind 9 February 2016 13: 00
        0
        Quote: Pomoryanin
        I didn’t put a little plus for you.

        Please yourself - put a minus)
        September 1938, the Soviet government:
        An urgent appeal to the League of Nations on the basis of Article 11 of the Charter to state the fact of a threat of German aggression against Czechoslovakia, including the question of the passage of Soviet troops through Romania and Poland.
        http://www.istorya.ru/book/ww2/50.php тут побольше
        1. Pomeranian
          Pomeranian 9 February 2016 13: 10
          +1
          Quote: Voice of Mind
          Please yourself - put a minus)

          Put already.
          In early September 1938, the Soviet government proposed to the governments of France and England a concrete program of action, including urgent measures, the implementation of which would make it possible to radically change the course of events and ensure the security of Czechoslovakia. The program included:

          1. The immediate convening of a meeting of the USSR, France and England and the publication on behalf of the three powers of a declaration that would contain a warning that in the event of German aggression against Czechoslovakia, assistance would be provided to the latter.

          2. Urgent appeal to the League of Nations on the basis of Article 11 of the Charter to ascertain the fact of the threat of German aggression against Czechoslovakia.

          3. Convening a meeting of representatives of the General Staffs of the Soviet Union, France and Czechoslovakia to resolve practical issues of the interaction of the armed forces of the three states in order to fight aggression.
          Where is this ??:
          Quote: Voice of Mind
          Stalin was really preparing to attack Germany. And the USSR 2 times appealed to the League of Nations with a request to let troops through the territory of countries to attack Germany
          1. Voice of the Mind
            Voice of the Mind 9 February 2016 13: 19
            -2
            Let's go the other way)
            A simple fact requiring minimal military training at the level of lieutenant.
            You are expecting an attack. How do you position the troops? Move planes to advanced airfields, and tank formations in close proximity to the border? Or all the same, leave the first echelon of troops along the border, and take most of the troops to the operational space?
            1. Pomeranian
              Pomeranian 9 February 2016 13: 22
              0
              Quote: Voice of Mind
              Move planes to advanced airfields, and tank formations in close proximity to the border?

              The lieutenant is not involved in the deployment of tank corps. Excuse me, where should the troops be located if the threat comes from the western borders? In the region of the Urals? The location of troops on the border corresponded to the then military doctrine. From where threats await - and pull troops there.
      3. Mr. Pip
        Mr. Pip 9 February 2016 15: 43
        0
        Quote: Pomoryanin
        I didn’t put a little plus for you. But after this masterpiece - fire.

        Oh Lord, yes, and even if so, what's wrong with being the first to attack the Nazi state "Third Reich", which one of the points of its ideology declared the destruction of entire nations ?! request
        1. Pomeranian
          Pomeranian 9 February 2016 15: 46
          0
          Quote: Mr. PIP
          Oh Lord, yes, and even if so, what's wrong with being the first to attack the Nazi state "Third Reich", which one of the points of its ideology declared the destruction of entire nations ?!

          I appreciate your subtle humor and sarcasm. In the forefront of hacking defense do not want?
          But seriously, the USSR was, to cowardice, a peace-loving state of the year until 1939. There was simply no strength to resist the coalition from Poland to Romania and the Baltic Limitrophs. Not to mention the attack on Germany, which (it must happen this way) did not have a common border with the USSR.
          1. Mr. Pip
            Mr. Pip 9 February 2016 18: 40
            0
            Quote: Pomoryanin
            But seriously

            But seriously, the topic is serious - I just remind you of the elementary logic that even if the attack on Nazi Germany took place in the plans "after 1939", then I personally do not see anything wrong with the destruction of a misanthropic state - 1941 showed enough that such non-people better to hit first request
            1. novel66
              novel66 9 February 2016 21: 14
              +3
              by the way, yes, and this is the only CONSISTENT explanation for the defeat of 41
              1. Pomeranian
                Pomeranian 10 February 2016 08: 55
                -1
                Quote: novel xnumx
                by the way, yes, and this is the only CONSISTENT explanation for the defeat of 41

                What do you mean! Judging by the photo, you served in the army. Then I need to explain one of the "consistent proofs" that demobilization is always better prepared, more trained and more skillful in spirit after the KMB?
                Shl. In June 1941, the Red Army consisted of 70 percent of the soldiers of the 1941 "spring" draft. This time. wink
            2. Pomeranian
              Pomeranian 10 February 2016 08: 51
              -1
              Quote: Mr. PIP
              took place in the plans "after 1939" then I personally do not see anything wrong with the destruction of a misanthropic state - 1941 showed enough that it is better to beat such non-humans first

              I am delighted with your subtle humor. However, I note that the construction of a normal army that meets modern principles of warfare in the USSR was begun in 1939. Who and what to attack Germany (which did not have, I repeat the common border with the USSR) can you tell? Where to get trained soldiers and, most importantly, officers. Literate, well-trained officers, not boys after a three-month course of junior lieutenants.
              About the plan. There is such a historian, Yuri Basistov, a front-line soldier, a former political worker. Somehow, about 12-15 years ago, I grappled with him in an in-depth discussion precisely about the plan of the USSR’s first strike against Germany, developed by Vasilevsky. Stalin and Shaposhnikov sent this plan to the trash, which is why this historian complained: they say Stalin was stupid and wrong that he did not create the 5 army of millions on the border with Germany and did not hit first. You understand that this plan was delusional from the beginning. In reality, there was nothing to fight the USSR.
              Threat. Counting tanks and gun calibres is a phallometry exercise that has nothing for serious analysis.
    2. revnagan
      revnagan 9 February 2016 12: 41
      +1
      Quote: Voice of Mind
      For any malomalski literate and interested (even superficially) person, it is obvious:

      It will be obvious if there are facts confirming this. Links to documents, please to the studio.
  25. Seraphimamur
    Seraphimamur 9 February 2016 11: 57
    0
    And why wonder we learn from the history written by historians of Western civilization, but as practice shows, it cannot be trusted. It's time to really highlight the issue of the "Mongol yoke" based on the latest research methods and capabilities.
  26. Pomeranian
    Pomeranian 9 February 2016 12: 12
    +2
    Something more and more material on the project begins to "admire". Spring is coming soon ... "It turns out that Alexander's squads and Batu's regiments operated on a huge strategic front from north to south, and ensured the defeat of the main Western powers that were attacking the Russian lands." What is this bullshit? What does the Grand Duke of Vladimir care about the openly hostile southern Russian principalities? And Alexander Yaroslavich, with all his merits, is difficult for Nevryuev to forgive and forget.
    This article, as a version of an alternative story, is very curious ...
  27. activator
    activator 9 February 2016 12: 14
    +1
    The map is dated 1754, what is this great Tartaria? And note not the Tatars and even on the site of the Russian Empire.
    1. Pomeranian
      Pomeranian 9 February 2016 12: 54
      +1
      Quote: activator
      And note not the Tatars and even on the site of the Russian Empire.

      And note that the greenish color shows the places of resettlement of the Turkic-speaking population. At the same time, various ethnic groups of Siberia were stuffed there. Are you a Turk ?? Although, if you live in the Lviv region, the assumption becomes a statement.
      1. stalkerwalker
        stalkerwalker 9 February 2016 13: 04
        +3
        Quote: Pomoryanin
        And note that the greenish color shows the places of resettlement of the Turkic-speaking population.

        A bit wrong ....
        The color separation of the Eurasian continent on this map indicates the division into Europe and Asia. The division adopted since the time of Tacitus, where the Don River is the border between Asia and Europe.
        1. Pomeranian
          Pomeranian 9 February 2016 13: 27
          0
          Quote: stalkerwalker
          A bit wrong ....
          The color separation of the Eurasian continent on this map indicates the division into Europe and Asia. The division adopted since the time of Tacitus, where the Don River is the border between Asia and Europe.

          Yes, quite a reasonable remark. But why then other Asian countries are not painted green? Most likely the version with Turkic speakers is more correct.
          1. stalkerwalker
            stalkerwalker 9 February 2016 13: 38
            +2
            Quote: Pomoryanin
            But why, then, other Asian countries are not painted green? Most likely the version with Turkic speakers is more correct.

            What about modern cards?
            Are there colors applied according to what principle?
            Or here's a map of Tartaria in a different color scheme:
            1. Pomeranian
              Pomeranian 9 February 2016 13: 49
              +1
              Quote: stalkerwalker
              Are there colors applied according to what principle?

              To be honest, I have never been interested in what modern cartographers have in their heads. A card is like a card. Names as titles. The stupid Europeans did not know the name Siberia, so they blurted out everywhere, as usual. Or are you a fan of the well-known gentlemen of Nosovsky-Fomenko and others like them? I will disappoint you, I know for sure that they wrote this theory about the new chronology for their students for the sake of a joke, to check their reaction. But this "joke" turned out to be a good commercial project. And away we go ...
              1. stalkerwalker
                stalkerwalker 9 February 2016 13: 54
                +2
                Quote: Pomoryanin
                Honestly, I have never been interested in what modern cartographers have in mind.

                Let me tell you - modern maps are colored depending on the destination: political, geographical, natural, etc. wassat
                Quote: Pomoryanin
                Or are you a fan of the notorious gentlemen Nosovsky-Fomenko and others like them?

                Or are you recently on the site, or WISH to read the current OWN incomparable posts ... Engaged in creative narcissism ... fool
                1. Pomeranian
                  Pomeranian 9 February 2016 13: 57
                  0
                  Quote: stalkerwalker
                  Let me tell you - modern maps are painted depending on the destination: political, geographical, natural, etc.

                  It’s funny. So tell me, by what principle are countries painted on political maps?
                  Quote: stalkerwalker
                  Or are you recently on the site, or WISH to read the current OWN incomparable posts ... Engaged in creative narcissism ...

                  Yes, recently. A couple of months. But delirium, whatever you call it, remains delusional. This also applies to the "theory of new chronology". Because I know where, how and why it appeared. Is it bad to know? request request
                  However, the word nonsense is also applicable to various new-fangled theories about dynastic war, the great Tartary from mozh to mozh and to other nonsense, which was not supported by anything.
                  1. stalkerwalker
                    stalkerwalker 9 February 2016 14: 06
                    +2
                    Quote: Pomoryanin
                    So tell me, by what principle are countries painted on political maps?

                    Is it hard to guess?

                    Again twenty-five: at school "... we all learned a little - something, and somehow ..."
                    1. Pomeranian
                      Pomeranian 9 February 2016 14: 13
                      0
                      Quote: stalkerwalker
                      Is it hard to guess?

                      I’m not a gypsy, guess. Under the USSR, it was clear. USSR - red (or near-red) color. States - Brown. Now what motivate you? Tell me, I really do not know.
                      So what about the absurd theories? Is there any archaeologically corroborated data, besides ancient maps with funny names of modern Siberia?
      2. activator
        activator 9 February 2016 13: 16
        0
        Quote: Pomoryanin
        Quote: activator
        And note not the Tatars and even on the site of the Russian Empire.

        And note that the greenish color shows the places of resettlement of the Turkic-speaking population. At the same time, various ethnic groups of Siberia were stuffed there. Are you a Turk ?? Although, if you live in the Lviv region, the assumption becomes a statement.

        It is difficult to communicate with people who look at everything through the prism of Moskal-Bandera.
        1. Pomeranian
          Pomeranian 9 February 2016 13: 26
          -1
          Quote: activator
          It is difficult to communicate with people who look at everything through the prism of Moskal-Bandera.

          You wrote nonsense. In the 90 years, a genetic portrait of the Russian people was compiled, about which you can easily find material on the Internet, it contains very interesting data that residents of the right-bank Ukraine are genetically closer to the Volga Bulgars than to the population of the same Donbass or Chernigov. , only knowledge.
          For dessert: Lviv, a city founded by Armenians. And it's true.
          1. activator
            activator 9 February 2016 13: 42
            +1
            Quote: Pomoryanin
            You wrote nonsense. In the 90s, a genetic portrait of the Russian people was compiled, about which

            I just did not understand what the laid out card has to do with who I am, because if this 1754 card of the year, then it should already be part of the Russian empire, which is not mentioned on the card at all. And what is tartaria?
            1. Pomeranian
              Pomeranian 9 February 2016 13: 51
              +1
              Quote: activator
              I just did not understand what the laid out card has to do with who I am, because if this 1754 card of the year, then it should already be part of the Russian empire, which is not mentioned on the card at all. And what is tartaria?

              I also do not understand this excitement with "Tartaria" Most likely, this is what the Europeans called Siberia. As Russians are any unknown remote wilderness to the Darkness ....
            2. Mangel olys
              Mangel olys 9 February 2016 16: 50
              +3
              Quote: activator
              And what is tartaria?


              Pope Innocent IV in 1234 declared a crusade against the Tatars as "messengers of Satan and minions of Tartarus." He not only wanted the liberation of the Catholic countries of Europe from the Tatars, who, incidentally, did not interfere in religious affairs, but wanted to incite the Mamelukes against the Golden Horde and convert the Slavs to Catholicism. Literally on all European maps, the territory of Eurasia is called exclusively Tartaria and nothing else, but on maps compiled by Philippe Bouache (1789), there is even Moscow Tataria (Tartarie Moscovite). Tartaria (Latin name) - the so-called Catholics of Tatarstan. For example, “Russian” in Latin will sound like “rashan”. So, the country united by the Tatars, up to the 18 century, and sometimes even later (for example, I.F. Kruzenshtern in the 1805 year), was called by the name of its native people - the Great Tataria. Well, the West European version is Grande Tartarie. That's why these names are on the maps of Western Europeans.
              1. activator
                activator 9 February 2016 18: 05
                -2
                Quote: Mangel Olys
                European countries from the Tatars, which, incidentally, did not interfere in religious affairs, but wanted to incite the Mamelukes against the Golden Horde and convert the Slavs to Catholicism. Literally on all European maps, the territory of Eurasia is called exclusively Tartaria (Tartaria) and nothing else, but on maps compiled by Philippe Bouache (1789), there is even Moscow Tataria (Tartarie Moscovite). Tartaria (Latin name) - the so-called Catholics of Tatarstan. For example, "ru

                In addition to the Muscovite of the largest tartaria, the English encyclopedia of 1771 refers to independent tartarii and Chinese tartaria. But I am more confused by the loyalty of the golden horde to religion, by the way, this is not the first time I have met this mention, unlike the Christians who first tried to convert everyone to their faith with fire and It’s as if it weren’t funny for anyone, and our ancestors, the pagans, the heirs of the Aryan Vedic civilization, were just distinguished by their tolerance of other religions, until we say it was too late and the Kulikovo battle was a showdown on inter-religious grounds between pagans and those who converted to Christianity, but inside the state is a golden horde. I am quite interested in this version. Moreover, given that for three hundred years the yoke didn’t affect Russia, it does not fit in with other occupations such as French in England.
    2. Penzuck
      Penzuck 9 February 2016 13: 44
      +2
      Quote: activator
      The map is dated 1754 year, what is this great Tartaria? And note not the Tatars and even on the site of the Russian Empire

      This is a map of ASIA! And the Cartographers of the West called Tartaria only the Geographical region, there is not a single country on the map.
      THERE IS THE EUROPEAN UNION wassat .
  28. Denis Skiff
    Denis Skiff 9 February 2016 12: 31
    +1
    myth of the myth. author, good.
  29. revnagan
    revnagan 9 February 2016 12: 39
    0
    Mongols ... Caucasians, relatives of Russians lol
  30. Diviz
    Diviz 9 February 2016 14: 36
    -1
    And you are aware that by the 9th century added 300 years. Those 1240 is 940. And we do not live in 2016 but in 1716. So, if anyone has a chronology of events, we will not know.
  31. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 9 February 2016 16: 51
    0
    Alexander Nevsky is a bright, but also controversial person. Loyalty to the alliance with the Horde and the right to the label
    had to prove cruel punitive campaigns against disgraced Russians
    princes, including against close relatives.
    1. stalkerwalker
      stalkerwalker 9 February 2016 18: 57
      +3
      Alex,
      By the time the nomadic expeditionary corps appeared, which ended in the Battle of Kalka, civil strife had reached its climax. Russian princes "removed from the road" Russian princes and other relatives who claimed reign by any available means. And, of course, it was the relatives who were the very first competitors who should have been removed on the way to the princely place.
      The inheritance system has become so confusing that sometimes it was simply impossible to make out whose turn was "first". The sons of the prince himself, grandchildren, nephews, uncles and others were jostling in line. That's why (I repeat from the above post) IN. Klyuchevsky singled out another side of the power of the Mongol Khan over Russian princes - he believed that she acted for Russia as a unifying factor, and that without the arbitration of the Horde, "the princes would tear Russia to shreds" with their strife.
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 10 February 2016 16: 42
        +2
        The army of Genghisides was great and of high quality. Even amicably and
        all together, the Russian principalities would not have been able to cope with it.
        Batu defeated the Hungarians (the most powerful army in Europe at that time)
        and a joint German-Polish army.
        This speaks as if in favor of the decision of Alexander Nevsky.
        But ...
        Collaborationism at all times was the same and did not adorn those
        rulers who chose him. Even if they just chose less
        of two evils.
  32. Kibl
    Kibl 9 February 2016 17: 17
    +1
    Nah! In entom question to understand and a box of vodka is not enough, the article is what kind of freshwater.
  33. AK64
    AK64 9 February 2016 17: 27
    -2
    It’s a pity, it’s a pity that such a frivolous article was published. The author, of course, tried his best, but it turned out somehow the other way around.

    Alexander Yaroslavich is the historical character most hated by Russophobes.
    To illustrate the intensity of this hatred: only today, on the same site, Mr. Shpakovsky broke out with another "article", the main message of which again and again slanders against Alexander Yaroslavich. Mr. Shpakovsky proves to us that it turns out that Birger did not wear armor (but was in pajamas), and the German Teutonic knights did not fight with pigs, but only in this way, they wanted to joke, get acquainted ...

    Why do they hate Alexander the light of Yaroslavich? Yes, it’s clear why: he was the first of the Russian tsars to understand where the enemy is. The enemy was then everywhere (as, indeed, always). But there was an enemy with whom one could speak and negotiate (Mongols), and there was an enemy with whom it was useless to speak - this enemy never kept his word anyway. Alexander Yaroslavich, despite his youth, understood everything, and drew conclusions. By the way, his brother, Andrei Yaroslavich, also understood and also made conclusions - but exactly the opposite. (However, perhaps the brothers conspired and decided to try both options - at least one should have worked.)

    So, Alexander rendered all possible resistance to the then NATO, in the form of an ajnik of the knightly order, which earned the hatred of Mr. Shpakovsky and the like. But civilized cultriggers carried culture and sausages! So there is something for Mr. Shpakovsky to hate Alexander Yaroslavich.

    So, returning to the question and the topic: in vain about such a great hero as Alexander Yaroslavich written so ... playful article, oh in vain.
  34. bbss
    bbss 10 February 2016 01: 04
    +2
    What nonsense. He mastered about a third.
  35. ver_
    ver_ 14 January 2017 08: 23
    0
    Quote: Mangel Alys
    Well, Alexander ... you "give the country coal"! It turns out that I am Russian too! Although all his life he considered himself a Tatar. "Fiction", not an article. In the truest sense of the word!

    .. which of you sir Tatar? .. Tatar = Khazar = Khazak = Cossack - equestrian warrior .. The Tatar nationality appeared in 1920 by the order of Ulyanov-Blanc by "christening" the Volga Bulgars into Tatars ..