Military Review

"Import substitution" in Ukrainian: German armored vehicles will be replaced with Russian engines

107
On the next "peremog" over Russia reported Maidan elite of Ukraine. This time, “Peremoga” is connected with the fact that the Ukrainian BTR-4 and other armored vehicles, after a series of tests, have been adapted to equip German Deutz engines, which will be installed on armored vehicles instead of Russian ones. The report says that this is another step towards compliance with NATO standards.


"Import substitution" in Ukrainian: German armored vehicles will be replaced with Russian engines


Representative statement the press service of the concern "Ukroboronprom" Romana Romanova:
German Deutz powerful, reliable, and, which is very important in the conditions of war, much quieter than Russian engines, which were installed on armored vehicles before. Thus, the Ukrainian military will receive the best samples of domestic military equipment, created in accordance with NATO standards.
A batch of new engines will be used for use on the BTR-3, BTR-4 and the latest Dozor-B armored vehicles. Until now, obsolete Russian-made engines were installed on the equipment.


A representative of a Ukrainian company, which for all the years of its existence, has not been able to create anything “morally new”, has been talking about the “obsolescence” of Russian engines, and is now trying to cut budget funds by entering into contracts with European suppliers.

According to Romanov, Ukroboronprom agreed with the German company on a “special price” that will allow the concern to “save” 25 million hryvnias.
Photos used:
Wikipedia
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  1. yuriy55
    yuriy55 8 February 2016 15: 03
    27
    They would instead put their brains German, you see, things would go ... wink

    The message says it another step on the road compliance with NATO standards.


    Do not take this path
    To queen two queens.
    You are in monogram credit cards,
    And in response to you - a diesel engine?
    "Special price"!!!
    Your back won't break?
    1. Pravdarm
      Pravdarm 8 February 2016 15: 07
      15
      Cunning Hans will not give brains! they are only quality products of their brain activity SELL!
      Moreover, very skillfully! (much more expensive (in the sense not for money, but in essence (and for money)!)
      And these suckers buy, joyfully, puppy (pig), thinking that this is out of respect for them, good support!
      1. Darek
        Darek 9 February 2016 02: 18
        +1
        Quote: Pravdarm
        Cunning Hans will not give brains! they are only quality products of their brain activity SELL!
        Moreover, very skillfully! (much more expensive (in the sense not for money, but in essence (and for money)!)
        And these suckers buy, joyfully, puppy (pig), thinking that this is out of respect for them, good support!


        In piggy style, colleague, in piggy style. And better - in a pig.
    2. tol100v
      tol100v 8 February 2016 15: 15
      +8
      Quote: yuriy55
      They would put German instead of their brains, you see, the matter would have gone ..

      It won’t work. German engines have a different lubricant!
      1. yushch
        yushch 8 February 2016 15: 23
        +8
        This happens when we put German power plants on new warships, they also began to meet NATO standards ??? What can I say, the Russian Foreign Minister said everything and there is nothing to add. wassat
        1. Darkmor
          Darkmor 8 February 2016 15: 54
          11
          Yes, let them bet what they want.
          If German engines are better and cheaper - please.

          Just then the question arises - did Ukraine put Russian engines out of gratitude before this?
          No, of course I can, theoretically, believe in a limitless and disinterested Hohlyak soul that saves a dirty self from starvation by buying unnecessary engines at exorbitant prices.
          But something tells me that either German engines are given under a targeted loan, or other components will be snatched at them at times more expensive, or the batch of armored personnel carriers will be counted on the fingers of one hand, well, either these engines are made by the Chinese, and they stick the label "Made in Germany ".
      2. Pereira
        Pereira 8 February 2016 15: 52
        +2
        That is yes. The Germans do not lubricate the brains with melted fat. No reason.
        1. jjj
          jjj 8 February 2016 16: 08
          +4
          German diesel engines sell better on the black market
          1. Pereira
            Pereira 8 February 2016 17: 53
            +1
            Did not buy. But there is no reason not to believe.
      3. sgazeev
        sgazeev 8 February 2016 19: 18
        0
        Quote: Tol100v
        Quote: yuriy55
        They would put German instead of their brains, you see, the matter would have gone ..

        It won’t work. German engines have a different lubricant!

        Diesel fuel is better.
        1. avdkrd
          avdkrd 8 February 2016 23: 22
          0
          Quote: sgazeev
          Diesel fuel is better.

          By the way, really - what will Kakly run on environmentally friendly German engines? Ukrainian military products had one competitive advantage - the price is lower than the plinth. The engine will pull the box along with it and goodbye to a cheap alteration of Soviet technology. Even if they create something really worthy of prospects, it is impossible to make serious competition. For example, for the sale of equipment with German components according to a gray scheme (in Sudan, for example), the Germans will unfold the letters so that the fine 404 will be paid forever. Having collapsed cooperation with Russia, the Kakly completely deprived themselves of the opportunity to trade as before.
    3. IrOqUoIs
      IrOqUoIs 8 February 2016 16: 55
      +2
      You spin, you spin, like a bare ass in a pan. Every day, I’m overworked.
    4. vodolaz
      vodolaz 8 February 2016 17: 31
      +1
      And on the basis of what do they make their advanced armored personnel carriers?) The corps is obviously from eighty.
    5. northern
      northern 8 February 2016 19: 31
      +5
      I hope no one was looking for a grain of common sense in this?
    6. Evpatiy.
      Evpatiy. 8 February 2016 19: 44
      +2
      Judging by the latest events in the non-German region, the quality of German brains causes great doubts!
  2. Electrical
    Electrical 8 February 2016 15: 03
    +5
    pennies dumb what they think is not clear
    1. Coconut Tima
      Coconut Tima 8 February 2016 15: 13
      18
      According to activists, both engines will be paid after receiving a loan from the IMF.
      1. brasist
        brasist 8 February 2016 16: 05
        +4
        Count the pennies yourself if one of the 10 engines is delivered and 9 others are sold, and it turns out that with pennies everything will be in order. Someone at the bank will increase the law of Ukrainian economy ...
    2. zennon
      zennon 8 February 2016 17: 01
      +1
      Quote: Elektrik
      pennies dumb what they think is not clear

      How dumb it is:
      According to preliminary estimates, the military budget of Ukraine in 2016 was planned in the amount of at least 100 billion hryvnias (5% of GDP), and taking into account funds from special funds - 113 billion hryvnias. In January 2016, the military budget was approved in the amount of 55,5 billion hryvnias (2,45% of GDP). In addition, the army continues to be financed from extrabudgetary sources, aid came in the form of cash and material assistance.
  3. Smoked
    Smoked 8 February 2016 15: 03
    +6
    That's right, and I see how the German manufacturer is growing a competitor.
    1. vlad_vlad
      vlad_vlad 8 February 2016 16: 39
      +3
      Deutz AG was founded in 1864 at the back of the railway station in Cologne and is one of the world leaders for small and medium-sized power plants up to 700 kV. Engines stand on cars, ships, tractors, generators, etc.
      eta is believed to be the oldest engine company in the world. founded, incidentally, by Nicolaus Otto, the progenitor of an internal combustion engine.
      1. alpamys
        alpamys 8 February 2016 21: 30
        +1
        Quote: vlad_vlad
        that eta is the oldest engine company in the world. founded, incidentally, by Nicolaus Otto, the progenitor of an internal combustion engine.

        it is incorrectly considered that the older Bavarian MAN celebrated the 2008th anniversary of the company in 250, they presented a MAN watch to all employees (the first diesel engine was assembled on MANe and launched in a series).

        1. vlad_vlad
          vlad_vlad 8 February 2016 21: 51
          +1
          ENGINEERING ...

          although I do not insist - MAN is so MAN. just wondering - what "motor" was produced by MAN in 1758? donkeys? :-)
          1. opus
            opus 8 February 2016 22: 51
            +1
            Quote: vlad_vlad
            and what "motor" was produced by MAN in 1758? donkeys? :-)

            nothing.
            Ore mining, smelting, processing of iron products - this was the Gutehoffnungshütte Group (GHH) in Ruhr
            Wagons since 1870

            since 1837 Dampfmaschinen (steam engines) Eisengießerei und Maschinenfabrik Klett & Comp. in Nürnberg

            the first "motor" Versuchsmotor von Rudolf diesel im Werk Augsburg 1896.

            But US patent

            Quote: vlad_vlad
            Deutz AG was founded in 1864

            More precisely NA Otto & Cie, then
            KHD or Klöckner-Humboldt-Deutz.
            gas engines they did.

            and their first diesel in 1897 built originally licensed by MAN
            1. Heinrich ruppert
              Heinrich ruppert 8 February 2016 23: 01
              +1
              Quote: opus
              the first "motor" Versuchsmotor von Rudolf Diesel im Werk Augsburg 1896.

              And he started up and earned the first time in rapeseed oil
              1. vlad_vlad
                vlad_vlad 9 February 2016 01: 02
                +1
                Thank you!
                1. opus
                  opus 9 February 2016 14: 46
                  +1
                  Quote: vlad_vlad
                  Thank you!

                  You are welcome
              2. The comment was deleted.
              3. opus
                opus 9 February 2016 14: 43
                0
                Quote: Heinrich Ruppert
                And he started up and earned the first time in rapeseed oil

                I was not present ...request
                Maybe you are right.
                1. Heinrich ruppert
                  Heinrich ruppert 9 February 2016 15: 36
                  0
                  Quote: opus
                  I was not present ...
                  Maybe you are right.

                  Yes, I myself found out in 1996; I had to retrain in Germany to apply the knowledge gained in the USSR. At the time, Rudolph had long decayed in the earth. But the most important thing is that this development lives and will live.
  4. st25310
    st25310 8 February 2016 15: 05
    +4
    Slowly we are moving to NATO standards. But seriously, something needs to be set once cooperation with Russia has ceased ...
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 8 February 2016 15: 11
      +9
      Quote: st25310
      Slowly we are moving to NATO standards.

      Well then, Ukrainians need to give up our Kalash at least, not to mention the rest of the weapons.
      1. 2С5
        2С5 8 February 2016 15: 32
        +3
        ... well, you can buy expansion joints or, for example, a ramrod from Hans or Shsha buy and equip them with AK ... also "a step towards NATO standards" lol
    2. RUSS
      RUSS 8 February 2016 15: 11
      0
      Quote: st25310
      Slowly we are moving to NATO standards.

      Well then, Ukrainians need to give up our Kalash at least, not to mention the rest of the weapons.
  5. 33 Watcher
    33 Watcher 8 February 2016 15: 05
    +9
    German Deutz are powerful, reliable, and, which is very important in war conditions, much quieter than Russian

    Skok times more expensive? How demanding are fuel quality? It seems to me, these engines for their heroes, for a short time ... And I wonder how much they bought?
    1. Heinrich ruppert
      Heinrich ruppert 8 February 2016 15: 12
      +3
      Quote: Observer 33
      How demanding are fuel quality?

      Not at all. Do you even piss in the tank vseravno works. Like YaMZ 238. smokes and drags
      1. 33 Watcher
        33 Watcher 8 February 2016 15: 19
        +5
        The experience of operating civilian vehicles, originally from Germany, says the opposite ... What horrible to pour, inappropriately ...
        1. Heinrich ruppert
          Heinrich ruppert 8 February 2016 15: 39
          +7
          Quote: Observer 33
          The experience of operating civilian vehicles, originally from Germany, says the opposite ... What horrible to pour, inappropriately ...

          In this case, we are discussing the military; I agree with you on the civilian side.
          Civilian ..... From these engines "got" everything already. they work to the limit. The compression ratio is already at the top, the injection pressure too. These engines only need "normal" fuel for the above reasons.

          The military .... are very different. Work on any fuel. In particular, he himself remade several machines for chicken fat extracted from poultry waste. Starts on a solarium when a temperature of 60 degrees is set, switches to fat. It works perfectly, only oil needs to be changed 2,5 times more often
          1. 33 Watcher
            33 Watcher 8 February 2016 15: 53
            +1
            Thank! Now it’s clear, more or less. I didn’t come across the military ...
          2. co-creator
            co-creator 8 February 2016 18: 13
            +1
            Quote: Heinrich Ruppert

            The military .... are very different. Work on any fuel. In particular, he himself remade several machines for chicken fat extracted from poultry waste. Starts on a solarium when a temperature of 60 degrees is set, switches to fat. It works perfectly, only oil needs to be changed 2,5 times more often

            Well, if for garlic, then your German dviguns are better than YaMZ a priori and more reliable. Say what you like, but the culture of production you have been creating for decades. In the Russian Federation, they only learn this in essence. A friend worked for me at the ZMZ (motors for gazelles. Volga) somewhere in the late 90s to the mid-2000s and told how they assembled the motors there, you can shoot tragicomedy. You won’t get rid of such production habits quickly.
            Another thing is that they are in any case more expensive than ours, and here Ukrainians simply have no other way out where to buy. But do not put China slag.
          3. sgazeev
            sgazeev 8 February 2016 19: 24
            +1
            Quote: Heinrich Ruppert
            Quote: Observer 33
            The experience of operating civilian vehicles, originally from Germany, says the opposite ... What horrible to pour, inappropriately ...

            In this case, we are discussing the military; I agree with you on the civilian side.
            Civilian ..... From these engines "got" everything already. they work to the limit. The compression ratio is already at the top, the injection pressure too. These engines only need "normal" fuel for the above reasons.

            The military .... are very different. Work on any fuel. In particular, he himself remade several machines for chicken fat extracted from poultry waste. Starts on a solarium when a temperature of 60 degrees is set, switches to fat. It works perfectly, only oil needs to be changed 2,5 times more often

            You give out the secret to Kaklam. repeat
            1. Heinrich ruppert
              Heinrich ruppert 8 February 2016 19: 32
              0
              Quote: sgazeev
              You give out the secret to Kaklam.

              Nah, it’s useless for them to say anything. This was correctly said by a colleague of roadsmell
              Oh, these units fell into the wrong hands, as in that proverb about a fool who would either break or cut his hands
            2. dvina71
              dvina71 9 February 2016 00: 01
              +1
              Quote: sgazeev
              You give out the secret to Kaklam.

              There is no secret. The exhaust pipe passes through a container of fat, margarine. The substance is heated and liquefied and will be able to burn in an open-cycle engine, i.e. diesel (although this is the name of the inventor). But .. there is but .. The filters are not designed for this, they quickly get clogged up .. It is necessary to start and shut off on a solarium .. otherwise all this fat will freeze in tubes, plungers .. whoever has frozen a solarium at least once .. knows what it is)) )
              So the game is not worth the candle.
              As for noise, the YaMZ-238 is noisier than German and Swedish diesels, in the presence of an intelligent silencer. The engine itself is very quiet.
              With regard to 740 .. then this is generally a strange motor. It was customized for a liter capacity .. well, that was the fashion then ..)) If he changed the phases (which has already been done, on new modifications) he’s got a normal motor for himself. Then the liter power was removed, but he didn’t get a sensible engine .. He there is one oddity, the torque rises to 900 rpm, and anything can move the KAMAZ from the spot)), but then the KM starts to decline, while for all diesels of this volume, the maximum KM is at 1500 rpm. HERE and consumption at KAMAZ fabulous. I have a Volvo with a load of 14t eats 26-27 liters, KamAZ with 10th under forty.
              In addition, in the Union for the needs of the army produced a separate engine. Let's say for GAZ-53 the engine was made at ZMZ, and for the army at GAZ. The difference is heaven and earth. We partly on the PAZmke motor showed a fist)). In return, they brought from the brigade the same, but with BDRMki. I will never forget how this PAZ, a completely clogged one, flew uphill, which I climbed into in third gear in 131m ... empty.
              1. Heinrich ruppert
                Heinrich ruppert 9 February 2016 00: 23
                +1
                Quote: dvina71
                .Exhaust pipe passes through a container of fat, margarine

                You can correct a little. This is not exhaust.
                This involves the selection of coolant from the head or compressor. In the main tank where the station is located, there is an ordinary coil, as on moonshine. Inside this coil there is a six-gear pump with a male drive, which drives the molten station to the main pump, and then as the book writes.
                1. dvina71
                  dvina71 9 February 2016 00: 35
                  0
                  Quote: Heinrich Ruppert
                  You can correct a little. This is not exhaust.

                  Well, I saw such a design. Although there is no difference.
                  That might work in Germany. Where -10 is already a tragedy. And we have more than 50% of the territory located in very harsh climatic conditions. Where -20 .. it's quite warm for yourself.
          4. kugelblitz
            kugelblitz 8 February 2016 20: 54
            0
            I never loved German diesel engines, troubled and moody, only Italians worse. Swedish and American are happy, the latter are simple as YaMZ, and they are not wise with kinematics.
            Power plants with CAT and John Deere are generally eternal for me, even with wear and smoke as locomotives. wassat
            1. Heinrich ruppert
              Heinrich ruppert 8 February 2016 22: 13
              +1
              Quote: kugelblitz
              Never loved german diesel

              Your problemma who will fall in love
              Quote: kugelblitz
              problematic and moody,

              And this is with a kagovo fright, while the craftsmen will not crawl up to you. After such mechanics, tuning the engine takes a whole day. Since they don’t know where to climb.
              Quote: kugelblitz
              only Italians are worse

              The pasta never had quality, but the design is the best.

              Quote: kugelblitz
              Swedish


              Unpretentious and adapted to low temperatures.
              Quote: kugelblitz
              American here please

              The quality is the same as for pasta, after three years of operation the bolts do not turn around, all the seals flow, the gap between the piston rings even the carpenters say that the gap is narrower.
              Quote: kugelblitz
              Power plants with CAT and John Deere are generally eternal for me,

              Yeah, just do not forget to drop a bucket of oil in the morning, otherwise it will give a wedge by evening.
              1. kugelblitz
                kugelblitz 9 February 2016 19: 13
                0
                Yes kaneshno, it's you about the German probably! wassat
          5. dvina71
            dvina71 9 February 2016 00: 58
            0
            Quote: Heinrich Ruppert
            In this case, we are discussing the military; I agree with you on the civilian side.

            If I remember exactly, the main mid-volume diesel for the Bunder is OM 636 with modifications. He has no multifuel. But reliable, to disgrace.
            Civilian ..... From these engines "got" everything already. they work to the limit. The compression ratio is already at the top, the injection pressure too. These engines only need "normal" fuel for the above reasons.

            You will not believe .. Injection pressure d245 (ZIL Bull, Paziki ..) 235 .., on Volvo 275 .. And on Merce there are as much, or even less. So, what is there by ..
            They do not increase the injection pressure, it can be at least 150, but without writing, the engine will start, it will work, but there will be no extreme possibilities from it.
            Increase compression ratio. This is due to growing environmental requirements. Thus, the combustion temperature rises and the amount of CO decreases markedly, the introduction of any urea leads to the same. An increase in temperature increases the load on the parts, the temperature in the first place, which leads to higher prices for production. The use of new materials and the complexity of their processing. Simply cementing is no longer possible. And the demand for lubricants is growing sharply too. Diesels 80-90 lived quite normally with SS and SD oil and they drove millions of kilometers .. now they don’t come without CJ and CJ2 .. it won’t start.
            1. Heinrich ruppert
              Heinrich ruppert 9 February 2016 01: 27
              0
              Quote: dvina71
              If I remember exactly, the main mid-volume diesel for the Bunder is OM 636 with modifications. He has no multifuel

              Turn 1997 to 2000, I was in the team of mechanics that carried out repairs of the Bunder test equipment. new Ideas passed tests. So from there I definitely know that 636 is multi-fuel. So you made a mistake about a kilometer.
              Quote: dvina71
              You will not believe .. Injection pressure d245 (ZIL Bull, Paziki ..) 235 .., on Volvo 275 .. And on Merce there are as much, or even less. So, what is there by ..

              Why I do not believe it, I even know.
              Quote: dvina71
              They do not increase the injection pressure, it can be at least 150, but without writing, the engine will start, it will work, but there will be no extreme possibilities from it.

              You want to say that it does not mean anything.
              But how then the mixture is sprayed even finer and this means that it burns faster and the piston receives a large impact force from above. At the same time, they try to save on the weight of the vehicle. parts reduce in size and increase the load on them. It doesn’t bring the unit to the side chapel ..
              So your accusation of me is wrong in the root. You're not right.
      2. roadsmell
        roadsmell 8 February 2016 15: 42
        +3
        Come on!))))
        And about "even ssy to the tank" - this is the place and on the topic: probably motors with EURO 4,5,6 norms and, accordingly, with a separate tank for urea))))))

        But only not multi-fuel ones, which is what their "working silence" says.


        Eh, these units fell into the wrong hands, as in that proverb about a fool who would either break or cut his hands.
        1. Heinrich ruppert
          Heinrich ruppert 8 February 2016 15: 59
          +3
          Quote: roadsmell
          Come on!))))

          East cross laughing
          Quote: roadsmell
          And about "even ssy to the tank" - this is the place and on the topic: probably motors with EURO 4,5,6 norms and, accordingly, with a separate tank for urea))))))

          If you leave at least one piece of equipment that is designed for a database with these standards, honestly write the address in PM, I will come and bring a 100 liter keg of beer.
          Quote: roadsmell
          But only not multi-fuel ones, which is what their "working silence" says.

          The quiet operation of these engines is achieved by the "\ MAN Forfaren" technology, which means that the head is prechamber plus a spherical recess in the piston. Therefore, the engine runs quietly and smoothly.
          Quote: roadsmell
          Eh, these units fell into the wrong hands, as in that proverb about a fool who would either break or cut his hands.

          Here you are one hundred percent right, and I agree with you 100% drinks
          1. roadsmell
            roadsmell 8 February 2016 16: 48
            +1
            If you leave at least one piece of equipment that is designed for a database with these standards, honestly write the address in PM, I will come and bring a 100 liter keg of beer.

            Well, of course, not EURO-6, but only EURO-2 (like the old man 740.30) and without urea.


            But in general - a good engine, the torque is one and a half times higher than our old man, fuel consumption is lower ... But expensive, sf .. well, in service !!!
            And oil, and filters)))
            1. Heinrich ruppert
              Heinrich ruppert 8 February 2016 17: 06
              0
              Quote: roadsmell
              But dear, sc ... well, in service !!!

              This is the very drawback of German technology
              Quote: roadsmell
              And oil, and filters)))

              Although there are enough German manufacturers who produce the same thing only 2.5-3 times cheaper than the original. And the quality is the same.
              1. roadsmell
                roadsmell 8 February 2016 17: 34
                +1
                Although there are enough German manufacturers who produce the same thing only 2.5-3 times cheaper than the original. And the quality is the same.

                Or Ukrainians will pull this original in order to maintain a complaint guarantee (although it is clearly defined on the Doutz website and in the Operating Instructions: the original spare parts and service only at official stations - it is not clear how it will look, or some repair departments will authorize after going through training (!!!), or the Germans will create their own (official) network of service stations with visiting teams) ...
                Or Ukrainians will "score" on everything, and the assumption
                as in that proverb about a fool who either breaks or cuts his hands.

                .. acquires a very real image of the statement))))
          2. dvina71
            dvina71 9 February 2016 01: 09
            0
            Quote: Heinrich Ruppert
            The quiet operation of these engines is achieved by the "\ MAN Forfaren" technology, which means that the head is prechamber plus a spherical recess in the piston. Therefore, the engine runs quietly and smoothly.

            Let's start with the recess in the piston .. It does not affect the noise of the work. These recesses serve to organize the air flow and improve the combustion process. By the way, there are very technologically advanced pistons .. Where this cavity serves as the place of combustion of the mixture, and the combustion products fly out through a small hole above this cavity .. Hi MTZ D-245)).
            Forkamekra .. Yes, noise reduces, but only at idle .. Although .. my Volvo’s idle engine is almost inaudible .., without any forecams.
            In general ... the larger the engine and the fewer parts in it, the less noise it is. Without any prechambers. The easiest way to reduce noise at idle is to make the "ignition" a little later, which was done on the common rail.
            1. Heinrich ruppert
              Heinrich ruppert 9 February 2016 01: 44
              0
              Quote: dvina71
              Let's start with the recess in the piston .. It does not affect the noise of the work.

              This is generally not true since the vortex flows exert uniform pressure during the working stroke of the piston, there is no hard knock.
              Quote: dvina71
              Forkamekra .. Yes, noise reduces, but only at idle.

              A prechamber in combination with a recess in the piston is generally an ideal process for UNIFORM COMBUSTION OF THE MIXTURE.
              A simple example to make it clearer. As during a cold start Tarakhtit comments and how softly the prechamber works. You have never heard. I didn’t understand what you are accusing me of.
        2. sgazeev
          sgazeev 8 February 2016 19: 28
          0
          Quote: roadsmell
          Come on!))))
          And about "even ssy to the tank" - this is the place and on the topic: probably motors with EURO 4,5,6 norms and, accordingly, with a separate tank for urea))))))

          But only not multi-fuel ones, which is what their "working silence" says.


          Eh, these units fell into the wrong hands, as in that proverb about a fool who would either break or cut his hands.

          http://vsdi.ru/osobennosti_konstrukcii_
  6. kapitan92
    kapitan92 8 February 2016 15: 11
    10
    In this regard, the updated BTR-3E1, compared with its Soviet predecessor, became 45 centimeters higher and almost three tons heavier.
  7. Belarus
    Belarus 8 February 2016 15: 11
    +6
    I agree that German engines are better, but the question is that the price is clearly higher than the Russian ones. That I allegedly reduced the price, I am sure that this is a temporary measure. Yes, and what is 404 25 million hryvnias for the current country?
    As soon as Ukroboronprom specifically and irrevocably sits on German engines, the price will rise by a lot.
    Apparently, Ukroboronprom should be thanked in advance for the supply of new engines to the DLNR republics.
    1. 2С5
      2С5 8 February 2016 15: 35
      +2
      ... and more vorosik, new motors or again x "a" trash used scrap metal and substandard drained? The Hans are a practical people and to arm the inadequate, who are at hand is somehow not in their style ... if only the shsha orders, advises ...
    2. 13 warrior
      13 warrior 8 February 2016 17: 06
      +1
      I am not going to compare Russian and German engines. But as for the price, this is an important issue. Perhaps the Germans sell engines cheaper, but Ukraine has no money, which means they buy for the money received in the form of a targeted loan (as has already happened with reverse gas), i.e. then the Ukrainians will overpay the money in the form of interest on the loan. In addition, another not idle question arises: how much did it cost to adapt the technology (alteration) to install a new power unit? It seems to me that the "savings" are not great.
      1. co-creator
        co-creator 8 February 2016 18: 21
        +2
        Quote: 13 warrior
        Perhaps the Germans are selling engines cheaper

        Quote: 13 warrior
        It seems to me that the "savings" are not great.

        It seems to me that everything is much simpler and everything is like with reverse gas. In words, cheaper and discount. but in fact .. well, as usual))
  8. st25310
    st25310 8 February 2016 15: 12
    +8
    Meanwhile, in Russia began testing the latest Bumerang BTR.
    http://gurkhan.blogspot.ru/2016/02/blog-post_79.html
  9. Samen
    Samen 8 February 2016 15: 15
    +2
    And ezhili "banter" to throw aside, a normal machine MAY work out ...
    1. Volodin
      Volodin 8 February 2016 15: 20
      +4
      And CAN and will not learn ...
    2. Awaz
      Awaz 8 February 2016 15: 22
      +2
      here how. the base then remained the old APC, with all the pluses and especially the minuses. Well, it’s not in vain that even in the Russian Federation they are switching to a new APC concept. Nevertheless, the experience of using old armored personnel carriers in Russia in military conflicts is decent and this concept is probably outdated. Well, and so - it is clear that if you change the engine, gearbox, transmission, armor protection and weapons - in principle, you can still squeeze something out of the good old APC.
    3. 33 Watcher
      33 Watcher 8 February 2016 15: 25
      0
      Well, if it comes to the series, we'll see what happens.
    4. iouris
      iouris 8 February 2016 22: 44
      0
      Yes, it will probably be certified according to Euro-6.
  10. kapitan92
    kapitan92 8 February 2016 15: 17
    +6
    Estimated export price of the BTR-3E1 is a million dollars. As for the new version of the BTR-80 - BTR-3E1, which has been produced in Ukraine since 2001, it received significant fire support in the form of a 3M Sturm combat module with stabilization of the weapons unit in two planes, allowing you to shoot on the go. The module also includes a 30-mm gun ZTM-1, a machine gun KT-7,62, a 30-mm automatic grenade launcher KBA-117, and a complex of guided weapons Barrier with 4 armor-piercing missiles.
  11. activator
    activator 8 February 2016 15: 18
    +8
    I wonder when they put the Russian engine on BTR 4? TDF 3 there Kharkov was very noisy. Although here recently I heard through the mailbox that t 72 was being made in Lviv BTRZ laughing and now all the Russians no longer have tanks. and the fact is. after all, they believe.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 8 February 2016 15: 48
      +2
      Quote: activator
      I wonder when they put the Russian engine on BTR 4? TDF 3 there Kharkov was very noisy

      Hail! Where is the SBU looking ?! The representative of the press service of the Ukroboronprom concern Roman Romanov admitted that Kharkov is Russia! smile
  12. Sorokin
    Sorokin 8 February 2016 15: 21
    +1
    Guys who remembers how they put Nona at 80? But what is the engine to change? I don’t understand xxxxxx at least kill the transmission of the Kuuda Denut? How can you pair a driving canoe for swimming? Ushlepok is another tin can.
    1. co-creator
      co-creator 8 February 2016 18: 23
      +2
      Quote: Sorokin
      But what is the engine to change?

      And where will they get the others? RF achresor.
  13. Nikolay71
    Nikolay71 8 February 2016 15: 22
    0
    German engines are probably good, but where will the Ukrainians find money for them?
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 8 February 2016 15: 29
      +1
      How is it from - soon friends will give them another loan.
  14. Monos
    Monos 8 February 2016 15: 24
    +6
    I remember Senya Yaytsenyuk threatened to suppress the whole of Europe with creative Ukrainian intelligence. Heh heh heh ...
  15. kapitan92
    kapitan92 8 February 2016 15: 25
    +6
    Conceptually, the BTR-4 “Bucephalus” armored personnel carrier, by its purpose, combined the functions of both an armored personnel carrier and an infantry fighting vehicle for fire support of motorized rifle units on the battlefield. The structural difference of the BTR-4 armored personnel carrier is the layout solution for placing the assault force in the aft part of the hull with the possibility of landing through the rear doors under the cover of an armored personnel carrier. The BTR-4 armored personnel carrier has an 8x8 wheel formula. The machine can be set in motion by one of three engine options, at the request of customers - Ukrainian 3TD, German Deutz or Italian Iveco. The ground clearance is 460 mm. The combat module BM-7 “Sail” is a 1x30 mm KBA-1 cannon (ammunition of 400 shells), 1x30 mm automatic grenade launcher (ammunition of 145 grenades), 1 x 7,62 mm machine gun (ammunition of 2000 cartridges) and ATGM “Barrier” (ammunition 4 ATGM) with a maximum range of 5500 m missile.
    More details: http://militaryreview.su/148-ukrainskiy-bronetransporter-btr-4.html
    1. kapitan92
      kapitan92 8 February 2016 15: 42
      +9
      During the war in the Donbass, the Armed Forces suffered huge losses. According to confirmed data, 140 T-64B / BV and 17 T-64BM, 28 BRDM-2, 12 BRM-1K, 12 BMD-1, 16 BMD-2, 19 BMP-1, 233 BMP-2, 4 BTR tanks were destroyed -4E, 2 BTR-3E, 91 BTR-80, 34 BTR-70 and 1 BTR-7, 5 BTR-60, 45 MTLB, 6 BTR-D, 6 self-propelled guns 2C9, 13 2C1, 23 2C3, 4 2C19, 1 2S5, 8 PTO MT-12, 11 howitzers D-30, 16 2A65, 1 D-20, 22 MLRS BM-21 and 11 BM-27, 3 SAM "Osa", 1 PU and 2 ROM of the SAM "Buk", 2 ZRPK "Tunguska". In addition, 60 T-64B / BV and 3 T-64BM, 16 BRDM-2, 13 BRM-1K, 1 BMD-1, 4 BMD-2, 30 BMP-1, 127 BMP-2, captured by the DNI and LNR militia 3 BTR-4, 33 BTR-80, 22 BTR-70, 3 BTR-60, 37 MTLB, 1 BTR-D, 13 2C1, 7 2C3, 1 2C19, 1 2C5, 19 MT-12, 7 D-30, 9 2A65, 2 D-20, 3 BM-21, 1 BM-27, 1 SAM “Strela-10” (these are trophies, and not the results of Voentorg). 2 Su-24 bombers, 7 Su-25 attack aircraft, 2 MiG-29 fighter jets, 1 An-30 species reconnaissance aircraft, 2 transport (Il-76 and An-26), 6 Mi-24 combat aircraft were shot down or crashed in catastrophes multipurpose Mi-8, 2 UAV Tu-143.
  16. ikrut
    ikrut 8 February 2016 15: 34
    +3
    This engine change will entail many design changes. Transmission, mountings, couplings, additional drives, etc. This, in turn, will require additional financial and time costs. As well as separate training of specialists for operation and repair. All this, of course, can be solved. But it doesn’t entail any washout. One unnecessary fuss. I think it would be wiser then to develop a new armored personnel carrier for a German engine. Although ... "What would not the child amuse himself ..." (c)
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 8 February 2016 15: 46
      +2
      Quote: ikrut
      Such a change of engine will entail many structural changes. Transmission, mounts, interfaces, additional drives and so on.

      EMNIP, Ukrainian armored personnel carriers were originally designed in several versions for different engines - based on a foreign customer.
      BTR-3 was in versions with Deutz, MTU and FTD.
      BTR-4 - with Deutz and 3TD-3.
  17. Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 8 February 2016 15: 42
    +1
    German Deutz powerful, reliable, and, which is very important in war conditions, much quieter than Russian engines that were installed on armored vehicles before.

    A batch of new engines will be used for use on the BTR-3, BTR-4 and the latest Dozor-B armored vehicles. Until now, obsolete Russian-made engines were installed on the equipment.

    EKLMN! That is, Kharkov is Russia?
    Because the BTR-4 engine is ZTD-3 production plant them. Malysheva. laughing
    And on the BTR-3 - "more powerful and reliable engine UTD-20 Ukrainian assembly".
  18. kapitan92
    kapitan92 8 February 2016 15: 47
    +9
    TURCHINOV: UKRAINIAN BTR-3E SIGNIFICANTLY EXCEEDS ALL THE NEWEST RUSSIAN ANALOGUES (PHOTO)
    They burn in the Donbass!
    1. 13 warrior
      13 warrior 8 February 2016 17: 12
      +2
      With the right approach, any armored vehicles burn, this has been discussed more than once.
    2. Platonich
      Platonich 9 February 2016 04: 51
      0
      Yes, that's right, they burn better than Russian!
  19. Shuttle
    Shuttle 8 February 2016 15: 51
    +6
    The German engine, obviously diesel, is very good. And Deutz is a company with history. Here are just the engines they make for buses, trucks, power plants, etc. civilian purposes. Civilian, not military.
    What will they feed the "German"? And who will take care of him? A very risky venture.

    But Ukrainians themselves can’t make an engine?
    1. Zaurbek
      Zaurbek 8 February 2016 17: 51
      +1
      On the BTR 80, there is a civilian diesel from KAMAZ 70s. Question Russia can now make a new diesel 220-320 hp? Without imported components and with your own cast unit?
      1. dvina71
        dvina71 9 February 2016 00: 45
        0
        Quote: Zaurbek
        . Question Russia can now make a new diesel 220-320 hp?

        YaMZ-536 - the basic 6-cylinder model of the in-line family YaMZ-530. Modifications YaMZ-536-10 (-30, -40), YaMZ-5361, YaMZ-5362, YaMZ-5363, YaMZ-5364 are structurally made similar to the base model, differ in fuel equipment adjustments by changing the settings of the electronic control unit.

        The engines of the YaMZ-530 family in terms of emissions of harmful substances comply with the Special Technical Regulation "On requirements for emissions of harmful (polluting) substances" by automotive vehicles manufactured in the territory of the Russian Federation, to the ecological class Euro-4:

        It only imported Common Rail ... but it is solvable.
        1. Zaurbek
          Zaurbek 9 February 2016 19: 51
          +1
          Ask about casting the cylinder block. On Gazelles, Lawns ... we are not pouring.
  20. Michael67
    Michael67 8 February 2016 15: 51
    +2
    Powerful ... Reliable ... Patro will pour kerosene diluted with donkey urine into the tank and will be unreliable to you. They have boobies serving equipment.
  21. Gormenghast
    Gormenghast 8 February 2016 15: 52
    +2
    And what about the price, interesting?

    According to Romanov, Ukroboronprom agreed with the German company on a “special price” that will allow the concern to “save” 25 million hryvnias.


    What the "saving"? what was compared with what? With Soviet engines? And how did they count? Dollar = Soviet ruble?" laughing

    Again, Russia is to blame for the fact that on the ancients Soviet armored vehicles turned out to be - who would have thought? soviet engines. laughing
  22. vvp2412
    vvp2412 8 February 2016 16: 01
    +2
    So, the Ukrainian military will receive the best examples of domestic military equipment created in accordance with NATO standards.


    How much is interesting in pieces?

    2-3 per year?
  23. Nyrobsky
    Nyrobsky 8 February 2016 16: 12
    +4
    They would have to think about the people, and they are all armed with beggars
  24. Gorodovik
    Gorodovik 8 February 2016 16: 23
    0
    I am surprised. It's normal practice, and you laugh at it. Acquisition of foreign parts is quite common. Even the Tiger armored cars were at one time made with foreign engines. Yes, you can’t talk about our frigates. So I don’t see anything here that can cause laughter. It's a shame of course that they call us their enemies. But let them go shaky-swath. This is normal.
    And again, why look into someone else's mouth and scream that everything is wrong7
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 8 February 2016 17: 43
      +2
      Quote: Cityman
      I am surprised. It's normal practice, and you laugh at it. Acquisition of foreign parts is quite common.

      We are not laughing at foreign engines. We laugh at the fact that once again overpowering the mocals turned out to be a siege: there were no Russian engines on the BTR-3 and 4, and the German engines will replace the Ukrainian ones.
      The tendency, however ... every time, trying to spoil the mosques, the hohls find themselves full trousers. smile

      Well, at the same time neighing over the competence of the representative of the press service of the concern "Ukroboronprom" Roman Romanov.
      1. Gorodovik
        Gorodovik 8 February 2016 18: 31
        -1
        In fact, their words have more logic than poisonous laughs in the comments.
        1 I am sure that everything went precisely to replacing the engines and it is logical to say that the new ones are better than the old ones because then there is no point in replacing them.
        2 About Russian engines. Well, as I understand it, the ZTD-3 is rooted in the Soviet past. Hence the Russian registration. And it is logical to indicate when replacing that they are worse. Plus such a hint they say Russian engines are not very.
        3 I was more struck by the neglect and anger in the article. Nevertheless, they are a different country and this news does not concern you in any way, but you did not immediately begin to scribble comments in the style - Well, stupid.
        This is theirs. Let them decide for themselves what is zrad and what is permog.
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 8 February 2016 21: 45
          +2
          Quote: Cityman
          2 About Russian engines. Well, as I understand it, the ZTD-3 is rooted in the Soviet past. Hence the Russian registration. And it is logical to indicate when replacing that they are worse. Plus such a hint they say Russian engines are not very.

          Wow wow, palekhshe ... smile
          You have just deprived Ukraine of almost all of its arms overpowerments. For they are all rooted in the Soviet past, which means - Russian.
          For example, the same BTR-3, as it recently turned out, is produced by sawing the BTR-70 bodies. Even manufacturers write about the 125-mm and 30-mm guns that they are copies of the Soviet 2A46 and 2A42 and 72.
          And even the beauty and pride of the Ukrvoenprom - "Oplot" - turns out to be Russian. Because it is derived from the T-80UD. Not even from the racially loyal Kharkov T-64, but from the T-80UD - a diesel modification of the T-80 tank, which was originally developed ... Ta-damm! ... Leninhail on Kirovfactory. Zrada squared!
          What remains for Ukraine? BTR-4 "Crack" hulls? wink

          And I still don’t remember the beauty and pride of the Ukrainian industry (seriously, without jokes), one of the few really operating enterprises is Motor Sich. For it turns out that most of its production is made up of ... Russian engines. For these are variations on the theme of the basic TV3-117, which was transmitted in Soviet times ... yes, from the Leningrad Design Bureau named after V.I. Klimov.
          Quote: Cityman
          3 I was more struck by the neglect and anger in the article. Nevertheless, they are a different country and this news does not concern you in any way, but you did not immediately begin to scribble comments in the style - Well, stupid.

          Ahem ... Have you really read the article carefully?
          German Deutz are powerful, reliable, and, which is very important in war conditions, significantly quieter than Russian engines that were installed on armored vehicles before. So, the Ukrainian military will receive the best examples of domestic military equipment created in accordance with NATO standards.

          A batch of new engines will be used for use on the BTR-3, BTR-4 and the latest Dozor-B armored vehicles. Until now, the equipment was installed obsolete Russian-made engines.

          That is, you are denying us the right to discuss the statement of an official of Ukroboronprom, in which our engines are allegedly called noisy and morally obsolete - this news doesn’t concern us at all?
          Then why did you join in this discussion? After all, this news does not concern you in any way.
  25. Kyrgyz
    Kyrgyz 8 February 2016 16: 29
    +2
    And what about the logistics of operational materials for oil zip service personnel, well, the price is not the last thing, I think the German smelled not cheap
  26. sako911
    sako911 8 February 2016 16: 40
    +1
    In the ATO there were many complaints that the engine was very loud and it was decided to replace it with a German one that was much quieter even on TV.
  27. Appraiser
    Appraiser 8 February 2016 16: 43
    0
    German Deutz are powerful, reliable, and, which is very important in war conditions, are much quieter than Russian engines that were installed on armored vehicles before. And what is so "military" .... And if they are deceived! Will they not burn? soldier
  28. triglav
    triglav 8 February 2016 16: 54
    -2
    Let the fat pay. Hryvnia will save.
  29. wow
    wow 8 February 2016 18: 23
    +1
    And what do they plan to pay for deutsche motor? Mabut ukrobabami, although there are enough of their bl ... th.
  30. kg pv
    kg pv 8 February 2016 18: 57
    +1
    They burned these bets at the airport last year, I don’t know what engines there were then, but they were sooooo quick!
  31. Pete mitchell
    Pete mitchell 8 February 2016 19: 29
    +7
    The Germans are bastards. As for the Russians, the engines for the contract are bad, the Ukrainian crisis must be sorted out. And how are these ukroushlepkam - it is possible, they are for the good of the cause. What's up? Couple with Ukrainians already "saw" loans?
  32. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 8 February 2016 19: 34
    +1
    Why, the Germans make good economical diesels,
    in quality higher than American.
    And prices do not bend.
    1. kugelblitz
      kugelblitz 8 February 2016 20: 48
      -1
      I would rather prefer Caterpillar than MAN, and especially Dietz. Americans are just simpler and have a huge motor resource. They really have cars, but they know how to make engines.
    2. iouris
      iouris 8 February 2016 22: 41
      0
      Especially if the engines are diesel and mounted on a VW.
      1. Heinrich ruppert
        Heinrich ruppert 8 February 2016 22: 58
        0
        Quote: iouris
        Especially if the engines are diesel and mounted on a VW.

        But since everyone knows that it was an attack on VW from America. Moreover, it began on Friday at the end of trading on the exchange, concern quotes collapsed. And until Monday, they broke enough firewood.
        But in fact, these engines were the cleanest. Then came BMW and the Mercedes in terms of cleanliness of the exhaust.
  33. afrikanez
    afrikanez 8 February 2016 20: 43
    +1
    Whatever a crest would amuse, if only it would not become pregnant. lol
  34. iouris
    iouris 8 February 2016 22: 39
    0
    In fact, Germany finances its automakers and a little junta.