Military Review

The traditional school of Russian hand-to-hand combat - St. Petersburg School (Gruntovsky School)

63
We present to your attention an interview with one of the founders of the so-called. "Russian styles" - Andrei Vadimovich Gruntovsky, who, in addition to teaching hand-to-hand combat, has been engaged in literary activity for many years, and also runs the national theater. Every year he holds wall battles (with blows to the head, with gloves) in Petersburg. Andrei Vadimovich shared his view on hand-to-hand combat.


The traditional school of Russian hand-to-hand combat - St. Petersburg School (Gruntovsky School)

A.V. Gruntovsky


1. Characteristic style (school, direction) in one sentence

- Our St. Petersburg school is the only one left - the traditional school of Russian hand-to-hand combat (the term was introduced by me at the beginning of 80) - my father began to teach immediately after demobilization (1954), and since then classes have been held continuously.

2. Traditional ethnographic? After all, Vadim Iosifovich, as you write yourself, gained knowledge in the army. Or is there something else?

- There is only one plan. If the school is really ours - national, then call it ethnographic or authentic, etc. - all without a difference. I wrote about this more than once. Yes, he went through the village fist school (like thousands of others) yes, he gained system knowledge in army intelligence. But this is one school. And practical teaching is very different. I give one to the students, the GRU officers are different, but the essence is the same. But the school, for example, Kadochnikov, is the processing of Spiridonov, and he himself wrote and said that he took Jujutsu as a basis. So here we have nothing to do. Well, many other schools that now call themselves Russians, in one way or another either have other (non-domestic) sources, or (like, for example, Ryabko) strong alterations and distortions of our school. The fact is simple: classes with army men were held from before the war, during the Second World War and until 53, and my father demobilized 54 and began to train himself, and the last 30 years are already me.

3. And what are the signs of this school (system knowledge)? How to distinguish it from others?

- In a nutshell, it is difficult to explain. Firstly, a special folk plastic. For example, you turn on the TV - how much time is needed to understand: is it movie or American? I think a second is enough. So I see in our style a person works, or boxing, karate, etc. In the past, by the way, boxing was more plastic - it looked like we were working ... now we have forgotten how. Well, a set of equipment - because we have in the application section, everything that is not allowed in martial arts. This is how combat sambo arose - Kharlampiev left what is possible for training combat - this was called "combat sambo", and what is not possible - it was then that they called it "handwriting"
The program consisted of 4 items: handwriting, knife fighting, bayonet and fire. Now the troops know almost nothing about it or do it in the manner of karate and so on. Well, "combat sambo" - due to non-secrecy - partly preserved (littered with boxing and karate). But this was only the base for the manuscript. The oldest handwriting is almost none.



4. Please describe the technique and tactics of this manuscript.

- I wrote the book "Russian fist fight", there are more than 400 pages and only slightly outlined the topic. It is appropriate to speak only about concepts. Well, according to my own observations: more than once I held seminars for combat sambo trainers (there were KMS men, masters and MSM there) what was observed: from what they were given in army intelligence (after all they were given under a nondisclosure subscription) 50 % In throwing technology - almost 100%, in shock - almost nothing (only within the limits of modern boxing) - that is, 5-10% In painful, liberation - much has been preserved, but there are no practical options. you can evaluate 50% Kicks - now they do everything on karate (no joints, ligaments do not know at all) degree of preservation - 0%. (bayonet battle, knife - very distorted - 30%) Tactics: well, nobody does the game work. Group fights are not involved (and no one can do it). the division of the battle into three stages in preparation - no. And since most of the equipment was gone (and this means that people followed the subscription), then the training methods were also lost. And they, in my opinion, represent our golden fund.

5. But in your school they are preserved? What technique do you train? According to the school of military intelligence, or with an emphasis on the ethnographic direction?

- Yes, at school. But I have already tried to explain - programs can be very different: one thing is young people, another is professional athletes, and the third is military. An athlete, no matter how high a level, requires a completely different preparation than the military one (for this purpose Kharlampiev developed combat sambo. By the way, the star went through the Invincible Channel recently - complete fiction. I heard about his trip to Pamir). So the British once in the 19 century, almost everyone in their box forbade (elbows, knees, etc.) and right - they just killed there. And what is the "ethnographic direction"? This is also a wide range. I have developed a program for folklore festivals - many already use (but these programs may be different) - again for whom: for folklorists who study combat dance, a fist rite or for the military, etc. For example, I conducted a “wall” and for the military, it is also interesting for them to participate in Shrovetide. That was an urgent need to wean from boxing, but they quickly get it from their neighbors ... but these are details. An army program may be narrow or wider — it does not matter (these are specific tasks: to whom and for what), but it was based on the people’s (i.e. ethnographic), and not on ju-jitsu and other things. That is, the army team have developed and systematized popular experience, so I think this school is traditional.

6. It makes sense that different people need different training programs. Can you tell us more about Kharlampiev’s trip to the Pamirs?

- About the Pamirs, nothing interesting, it's me to how legends are created. He traveled to the 30 with the guys from the Physics Institute. and climbed the Pamirs (fond of mountaineering). Yes, there Basmachi darted around, but he didn’t intersect with them and, moreover, didn’t collect anything in a notebook, because Sambo had already been created for a long time, and in the movies they made an action based on a foreign template, where Sambo was opposed to karate - and another is not very high. Although in general - the film is kind and patriotic - but no connection with reality, except for the scene.

7. Andrei Vadimovich, it is impossible not to ask the following question - given that the "old man-made hand" has practically disappeared - do you have students who have fully adopted their knowledge from you?

- Pupils are all over the country. But “fully” to adopt - it’s necessary to train 30 yourself. A lot of guys grabbed something and taught. There are those whom I did not see at all, but they refer to me, there is nothing ... I looked at the English Sherlock Homs - there was a reconstructed old box. A bit like us - but this movie, of course ...


8. Interestingly, your father has been trained, it seems, for a month. Any differences in teaching?

- The seminar itself took place a month in the Kiev Military District. Workout on 8 hours per day. But they selected the guys who were already well prepared. Father, he not only mastered the fists in his youth in the village, but even before the seminar he had already served for three years and was the division champion in wrestling and still in shooting from the revolver. In addition, they participated in hostilities against Bandera (1951-53). What are the differences? - I just try to keep and develop what was.

9. By the way, speaking of your book Russian Fistfight (which sustained 5 reprints and should, I think, be in the library of every Russian (Soviet) Belarusian lover) - how did the symmetry table appear?

- The table I had a dream (straight, like Mendeleev) on it you can paint any movement - from a gymnastic exercise to a ballet performance. For her, several people have already defended their candidates, and some have defended a doctoral one. Theoretical development - this is my work. But it would not have been possible if there were no wonderful training methods for army intelligence officers. (Army, by the way, was no longer in 53, and everyone was in the GRU, but by inertia they were called, like during the war years: army intelligence).

10. The so-called "Russian style of unarmed combat" has been known to the general public for more than a quarter of a century - 25 years. Can you give your assessment of the past stage and share your thoughts about the future of "Russian style"?

- At the beginning of 80, I came up with such a combination of “Russian hand-to-hand fighting” (this is the first samizdat edition). It quickly took root, and at the end of 80 the “Russian style” appeared. It seems that Lebedev introduced it (see “Youth Technique” for 1988). On the one hand, it is good that people show national identity. The same Kadochnikov - how would he look now, if he continued to be called "Soviet style"? Many are looking for, creating novelties. Others believe that demonstrating kick-boxing (and even in kimono) is the most Russian style. In general, "Russian style" I consider an unfortunate term. Russian combat is fundamentally different from both the east and the western martial arts. This is not the "style" of something generally accepted there. A lot of all sorts of rubbish - "contactless battle" and so on. Why, by the way, serious people in the Ministry of Internal Affairs and the FSB have become critical of everything "Russian"; they can be seen already got any inventors. Neither I nor my father have ever engaged in self-promotion, and probably those figures whom I myself involuntarily called out of non-existence will create a lot of noise. But God is with him. What to say about the future? I have written a lot of articles about Russia and books (this is my main vocation - literature) - now it is decided whether Russia will be at all or how Europe will roll into the abyss. If it is (I would really like it), our school will be in demand, for the obvious will become obvious. And whether I live is not so important.
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  1. Riv
    Riv 9 February 2016 07: 34
    +3
    Gruntovsky? How ... I heard. Dancer.
    In the eighties, you see, the Russian style appeared ... So to think: the Russian style is no less than a thousand years old, or even more than once every two. Just then did not think of the name of the dough to mow.
    1. Alexey T. (Oper)
      Alexey T. (Oper) 9 February 2016 11: 48
      +4
      Hello, comrades.

      You are mistaken, Riv.

      Andrei Vadimovich is not a dancer. I studied with him, though not at all for long, because by nature he is lazy. Therefore, I can declare your mistake with all responsibility.

      The style (you can call him manner) of the battle that he trains is really of great applied value. And at the same time, it differs radically from martial arts, especially in terms of the battle against several opponents and the battle in the circle (the Easterners have no idea about this).

      Well, your attack in terms of earning them "dough" by exploiting the allegedly invented name "Russian style" is forgivable, because you yourself are not familiar with him and do not know what kind of person he is in life. Although it does not do you credit, since it is not correct to blame a person without knowing him personally.
      1. BMP-2
        BMP-2 9 February 2016 14: 26
        +1
        By the way, Andrei Vadimovich is one of the most intelligent and understandable teachers. Well, pouring dirt in the spirit of "I heard the ringing, but did not know where it came from" is not the best way to draw attention to your point of view ...
      2. Riv
        Riv 9 February 2016 14: 28
        +2
        And I call these masters dancers not because they can't do anything. There are very strong people. It's just that all their styles are theaters of one actor, and except for the master himself and a dozen students, no one has heard or will hear about them. Working in a circle? Well, the Japanese, of course, are a backward nation, where should they ... :)))

        The school assumes a certain history and continuity. He put his Oyama not on an empty stump, but on tradition. Ueshiba changed the name of the old school, but the traditions have not disappeared. And their disciples began to spread not their own troubles around the world, but again followed the tradition. Their schools do not try to embrace the immensity and combine "fighting in a circle" with bayonet fighting, but only give a certain technique and try to do it well. This makes them schools.

        Oh yes ... Gruntovsky himself says: to master his style, you need to train for thirty years. Okay, huh? Who was nobody will become everything. And if fate sends him a CCM in SAMBO, will the discount be released for at least a couple of years? There is also a nuance. Starting at the age of five, you become a master in this way at thirty-five (and even then without guarantees). During this time, your teacher may, which is typical, die, but in fact you will not know the "secrets of the school" perfectly. What then? That is why a dancer never has many students.
        1. Alexey T. (Oper)
          Alexey T. (Oper) 9 February 2016 15: 30
          +1
          No problem. If the Japanese are familiar with the battle in a circle against the 6-8 opponents of the attackers at the same time, then the network probably has a video of such training battles. You can drop the link or at least name the school (style, type of struggle, etc.) that would practice this type of battle.

          As for the statement: "Dancers don't have many students," Grunt himself added about 30-40 people only those whom I know by sight. Of these, about 10-15 people have been operating in groups in different parts of the city for several years. Three years ago, only from St. Petersburg and only adult men (from 22 to 40 years old) to the Shrovetide, about 150 people came out into the wall and all of them, one way or another, considered themselves his students.

          Is it a lot or a little? On the scale of the country and the people - not enough. In the scale of one person doing his job on sheer enthusiasm, in my opinion a lot.
          1. Old shoe
            Old shoe 9 February 2016 16: 50
            0
            By "working in a circle", which the Japanese supposedly do not have. Watch Ueshiba's demonstration performances. In his youth, he demonstrated excellent hard technique. Including against several simultaneously attackers. It is necessary to know the traditions and philosophy of the samurai in order to understand why "working in a circle" did not particularly stand out among them. According to the testimony of historians, all their battles were broken up into many fights, because in the murder of one by several, according to their concepts, there is neither honor nor glory. And further. In oriental martial arts (I emphasize: in martial arts, not sports), work is not divided against one or more. It is always assumed that there can be several opponents.
            Sincerely.
            1. Alexey T. (Oper)
              Alexey T. (Oper) 9 February 2016 20: 18
              +1
              I looked. Battles where several people attacked simultaneously from all sides did not see. Everywhere they attack in turn, i.e. one by one. Whereas a battle in a circle implies a simultaneous attack from different angles.
          2. Riv
            Riv 9 February 2016 17: 13
            0
            Not too much. And the fact that someone is operating something there is very bad in my opinion. ARCHIPLOHO. The problem is that the school (well, let's call it that) has no traditions yet. Does not have, sorry for the tautology, style, i.e. formal algorithms and teaching criteria. I watched the video in the article. This is some kind of nonsense. In sneakers in the hall, no, even primitive, uniform form ... Well, you wear camouflage, is it difficult? This is pampering, and the school just begins with a ritual.

            Therefore, each of the students will try to do something, and in the end it will come out sideways for the school. Ten years later, completely different fighters will say pathetically: "I represent a truly Russian style!" Of course, everyone will laugh at this.
          3. Ziksura
            Ziksura 9 February 2016 20: 30
            0
            Quote: Alexey T. (Opera)
            If the Japanese are familiar with the battle in a circle, against 6-8 opponents of the attackers at the same time, then the network probably has a video of such training battles.

            laughing So even in the boxing section (by the way, with a serious trainer with vast experience), as a "heavyweight", they sometimes put me in the ring against 2-3 "average weights" so that life would not seem like honey. And since I was engaged not only in boxing, but I had to take part in fights, when about 20 karatekas fought in the version "every man for himself", that was the alignment: you don't know at what second who is your "friend" and who is "enemy". Video "sorry" no - only personal experience. Long-term. Very perennial.
            According to the article: the reasoning smacks of amateurism, and the video is not impressive. A person clearly does not understand what boxing is, especially modern boxing, and therefore is "surprised" by the disappearance of plasticity (strikes are delivered at the highest speeds, so the emphasis on working on head-on courses is a deviation from the opponent's strikes by literally millimeters and counter-strikes + a lot of things in in the same manner (to describe for a long time); the trajectory and biomechanics of strikes have been brought as a result of many years of scientific work of a huge number of specialists (not only coaches, but also representatives of various areas related to sports) brought to the best options (even Olympic, even professional boxing is a lot of money and the prestige of the country) .It is serious scientific work that makes boxing of a high level "not that", but the entertainment is lost, but the efficiency of the system itself grows (a less physically gifted person, with great diligence, creates competition for "closets", and this is Art). ju-jutsu, reasoning of the same level Sorry to write for a long time, but take my word for it. hi
      3. Riv
        Riv 9 February 2016 14: 38
        +3
        I am always amused by references to Kadochnikov and other army luminaries, because in the army hand-to-hand combat is not taught as a means of achieving victory, or as a method of survival. In the end, service weapons are much more useful for survival, and tactics for victory. And not as physical fitness. There are more useful exercises.

        Hand-to-hand training is exclusively a way to strengthen the spirit. And the army hand-to-hand combat, or karate, or judo, or sambo, or BNM, are only parts of a huge whole called "military affairs". That is why the words "Russian style" caused and will make me smile. Well, or "combat hopak". Now it's clear where it comes from: a dancer?
        1. BMP-2
          BMP-2 9 February 2016 17: 42
          -2
          Well, yes, of course, in order to win hand-to-hand combat - you need to pick up a weapon! laughing Your logic sincerely amuses me! Melee, say, temper the spirit? Well, tell the guys about it in the Donbas now, otherwise they don’t know the unenlightened ... And on the account of the fact that all this (spirit, equipment, tactics and strategy) - part of the military - who argues then?
      4. Mr. Pip
        Mr. Pip 9 February 2016 18: 50
        +1
        Quote: Alexey T. (Opera)
        Andrei Vadimovich is not a dancer. I studied with him, though not at all for long, because by nature he is lazy. Therefore, I can declare your mistake with all responsibility.

        Think very strangely, if you "did little" then where did you get professionalism for a qualitative assessment of the "importance of style" ?!
      5. smershxnumx
        smershxnumx 9 February 2016 20: 22
        +3
        we had a foreman (front-line soldier, intelligence officer). So he trained those who wanted to learn something. Very similar. And very effective. Checked. Not once. And he taught his son.
  2. Maegrom
    Maegrom 9 February 2016 09: 01
    +3
    At one time, the blog of the odious personality Henry_spb had a wonderful heading "cormorants in BI". He would be useful.
    1. BMP-2
      BMP-2 9 February 2016 14: 28
      -4
      Oh, I would not advise this cormorant to go against Andrei Vadimovich! laughing
      1. Riv
        Riv 9 February 2016 15: 31
        +1
        By the way ... The first sign of a "dancer" is the willingness to defend his style personally and certainly in battle. "He was a junior officer in the past, he was put to us as an example. He was, like a young pioneer, always ready!"
        Although of course, in fact, nothing can be proved like that.
        1. BMP-2
          BMP-2 9 February 2016 17: 27
          -2
          Well, there is such a category of people who in principle can’t prove anything. And, you rightly noted - these are not pioneers. laughing Want to discuss the methodological basis of evidence-based practice or the classification features of the type of non-pioneers? what laughing
          1. Riv
            Riv 9 February 2016 22: 39
            0
            And I have no internal need to prove something to someone, or to “tell the guys in Donbass” something. What I know is enough for me.
            1. BMP-2
              BMP-2 19 February 2016 22: 03
              0
              The feeling of self-sufficiency and the desire to limit oneself to cognition are just the signs of a bad dancer! laughing
  3. Saling
    Saling 9 February 2016 10: 11
    +6
    Well, since they began to post these "adherents of deadly Russian styles", why then don't you publish an article about the truly Russian style school "Drunken Plumber"? wink
  4. Maksus
    Maksus 9 February 2016 10: 59
    +2
    Where did all this come from? There were fist fights in Russia, but it was fun - they competed in the distance, and not in the ability to work out the enemy. If they seriously fought, then they took a drekole or axes. And if you are really serious - then spears and swords.
    1. Alexey T. (Oper)
      Alexey T. (Oper) 9 February 2016 12: 00
      +2
      You're wrong. Fist fights can be considered simply fun if only one who himself has never stood in the wall. I participated in stenotic battles for 15 years, until we were banned in St. Petersburg after the death of one of the participants.
      1. Maksus
        Maksus 9 February 2016 13: 07
        +1
        And what were these fights in Russia? Or do you really believe that melee wins in a fair fight of a swordsman or archer?
        1. Riv
          Riv 9 February 2016 14: 53
          0
          I once had a battle on certification. I then handed over on the seventh kyu. After the surrender, there should have been demonstrative fights, but our heavy was ill and did not go. Well, so as not to lower the prestige of the area, senpai asked me to leave. Against the second kyu, yes ...
          They went out, bowed ... The enemy (I don’t remember what I was called) apparently at first disappointed my blue belt. The fight started on a slack and literally in the fifth second got it upside down. Not much, of course, managed to dodge a little, but the click came out loud. It could well catch a knockout, be weaker. Ours already jumped from the benches. :)
          Of course, in the end, I lost the fight. The enemy didn’t make mistakes anymore, but gently struck me sunny.

          In general, it is not a matter of style, or even power, but of determination and the desire to win. Archer? Swordsman? Lift a couple of stones from the ground and plant them in lobeshniki. And then let them try to catch up.
          1. would
            would 9 February 2016 15: 22
            +1
            Lift a couple of stones from the ground and plant them in lobeshniki.


            Especially a swordsman in a helmet and with a shield laughing After all, the main difference between an archer, a swordsman, a naked melee is not in some strength or determination. And in equipment.
            1. Riv
              Riv 9 February 2016 15: 42
              +1
              Well, he should see you, right? So at least half of the head for the shield expose. And if he closes his eyes with a shield, then this is a gift of fate, not an adversary.
              And the difference between a swordsman and an archer is not in equipment, but in battle tactics.
              Current youth touches ... :)))
              1. would
                would 9 February 2016 16: 12
                0
                Well, well, what do you mean, in this half you will get a sniper with a stone from that distance that the swordsman does not see? laughing

                And the difference between a swordsman and an archer is not in equipment, but in battle tactics.


                Battle tactics directly come from equipment, and equipment from battle tactics. These are largely inseparable things.

                Current youth touches ... :)))
                1. Riv
                  Riv 9 February 2016 17: 00
                  -1
                  Captain obvious???
            2. Maksus
              Maksus 9 February 2016 19: 34
              +1
              Or the English arrow with a long bow. How much is his aiming range - 60 meters? Put a stone in this, yeah. Or run to the strike distance ...
          2. BMP-2
            BMP-2 19 February 2016 22: 10
            0
            The seventh kyu in karate is just the mastery of fragments of technique. For the same, for the classic principle of "Shin-Waza-Tai" to work, you need to fully master it. Until this moment, strength will always prevail over strength, and it is delusion to think that possession of some "cunning technique" can change the essence of the fight. Psychological attitude and will, of course, play a role in the fight, but without the three above-mentioned components, this is nothing more than a random factor.
        2. Alexey T. (Oper)
          Alexey T. (Oper) 9 February 2016 15: 41
          0
          Fisticuffs - empirically developed by the Russian people, the combat training system of the infantry soldier, which is the basis of the Zemstvo army, i.e. militias. The peasant did not have time to work out kata for days on end or to wave his sword. He had to plow and sow. And nobody wanted to become a guaranteed corpse in the first battle.

          Steno-battle, in turn, is a method of practicing group actions in hand-to-hand combat with melee weapons. While actions on the battlefields played the main role in tight formation, the Russian infantry, recruited mainly from peasant children who had been fighting wall to wall since childhood, had no equal.
          1. Maksus
            Maksus 9 February 2016 16: 53
            +3
            Yes Yes. And paintball and airsoft will be replaced by both the KMB and five years at the military school))) The militia does not fight with its bare hands, it needs to be taught in order (here wall to wall is useful, yes), but what about handling a spear? And how to knock a rider? And shoot from the bow? Hand-to-hand combat is the ability to defeat an opponent (or maybe several), provided that they also come to fight, and not shoot or chop with swords))))
            1. Alexey T. (Oper)
              Alexey T. (Oper) 9 February 2016 17: 15
              -1
              I’m wondering, have you ever stood in the wall yourself? Do you know what skills are taught during such classes?
              I have stood more than once. I can’t explain and the communication format does not allow. You must first feel it yourself and then also analyze it. Then maybe something will come. And so we get a conversation between the blind and the deaf.
              1. Maksus
                Maksus 9 February 2016 17: 32
                +1
                Have you ever stood against a man with a sword (even a training one)? How can I explain this to you? Do you know how scary it is when the barrel is pointed at you? Really blind with the deaf ...
                1. Alexey T. (Oper)
                  Alexey T. (Oper) 9 February 2016 18: 00
                  +1
                  He stood, and more than once. With training, but steel, or rather forged. The truth was not in a shirt, but in chain mail, with a shield and his sword. And he stood against a rifle with a training bayonet when he studied with a bayonet.

                  And as bullets from "macaroni" buzzing near the ear, too, had to hear - such a profession.
                  1. Maksus
                    Maksus 9 February 2016 18: 37
                    0
                    Then you understanddrinks
                    And if without chain mail and a sword were? And without Makar in your hands? Only honestly.
                    1. Alexey T. (Oper)
                      Alexey T. (Oper) 9 February 2016 20: 25
                      0
                      And if he were without chain mail and a sword, he would attack. Therefore, how to defend oneself in a similar situation is similar to death. And so there is a chance to get to a distance at which the sword will only be a hindrance. smile
                      1. Riv
                        Riv 10 February 2016 07: 42
                        +2
                        So to think: climbing on iron with bare hands is not the best option for survival. It was not for nothing that I spoke above about running away ...
        3. Alexey T. (Oper)
          Alexey T. (Oper) 9 February 2016 15: 46
          0
          As for "will a hand-to-hand fighter win in an honest battle of a swordsman" '- maybe he will, why not? After all, a sword can be knocked out of hand and knocked out.
          1. Maegrom
            Maegrom 17 February 2016 09: 34
            0
            You said that you were standing in the wall with a sword, and here immediately such a statement. The sword is a serious lengthening of the arm. To compensate for every 10 cm of range, you need to have superiority in speed, reaction, experience. And the presence of the blade gives an even greater advantage. Walk the distance to a competent swordsman without receiving unacceptable damage - on the verge of fantasy.
  5. Alexey T. (Oper)
    Alexey T. (Oper) 9 February 2016 12: 04
    +3
    Yes, Grunt has grown great in recent years. May God grant him health. A good fighter and a wonderful teacher.
  6. pooop
    pooop 9 February 2016 12: 38
    +2
    Druids climbed out) again!
    1. Alexey T. (Oper)
      Alexey T. (Oper) 9 February 2016 13: 25
      0
      Druids? If you are about Grunt, then in vain. He is a deeply religious, Orthodox person.
      1. Saling
        Saling 9 February 2016 13: 57
        -2
        And how deeply a believer could forget the Gospel saying: "Whoever hits you on your right cheek, turn the other to him as well." It turns out like in a joke: "Israel Solomonovich! Either put on your panties, or remove the cross!" wink
        1. Alexey T. (Oper)
          Alexey T. (Oper) 9 February 2016 15: 54
          +2
          As one of the archimandrites taught: "If someone hit you on the right cheek, substitute the left one. For it is inconvenient to beat the foe with the left hand." It is a pity that I forgot who exactly said this. bully
          1. Saling
            Saling 10 February 2016 13: 24
            0
            And exactly archimandrite? Not the Patriarch of All Russia? wink



            Orthodox icons on the wall +10 strike power laughing
      2. BMP-2
        BMP-2 9 February 2016 14: 31
        +1
        So the connoisseurs of Chopin, sho Mozart - one Mussorgsky! laughing
  7. friend of animals
    friend of animals 9 February 2016 14: 18
    +4
    I looked at these wobbles in the video, a person familiar with martial arts will immediately understand everything.
    1. Riv
      Riv 9 February 2016 15: 57
      0
      Yeah ... T-shirts, sports pants, as if just from the trash ... In the hall - in shoes. And not the fact that the shift.
      1. Alexey T. (Oper)
        Alexey T. (Oper) 9 February 2016 16: 34
        0
        The main trainings are not in the gym, but on the street. Moreover, in any weather. Therefore, in shoes that they do not learn Japanese "ballet", but a real fight in a real situation, ie. on the ground, on asphalt, on ice or snow, wherever necessary.
        1. Riv
          Riv 9 February 2016 17: 02
          +2
          Yeah ... And in greasy T-shirts ... Are the dudes tempered? :)))
          But now they are in the hall. Maybe someone will have to lie on the floor. Do not take off your shoes?
          1. Alexey T. (Oper)
            Alexey T. (Oper) 9 February 2016 18: 02
            0
            Her, not zapadlo. Because Europeans are more familiar with shoes. Yes, and do not go with us, and therefore, do not fight on the streets, barefoot.
            1. Riv
              Riv 9 February 2016 22: 40
              +1
              Well, the flag in hand. Like to wallow in the mud - wallow.
  8. Avtopilot
    Avtopilot 9 February 2016 15: 38
    +3
    Whatever the child was amusing, just not being hung, the clowning.
    We also have this on the Square, a "combat hopak", which was "deciphered" from folk dances by one Svidomite, and the same type lamented on the camera that the security forces did not want to take his "boyova mystetstvo" into service.
    Boxing and bar forever (s) Goblin-Puchkov
  9. Mr. Pip
    Mr. Pip 9 February 2016 19: 02
    0
    I went in to laugh purely, for more than 10 years (with my 30) there is no "trust" in any of the newly-made "sensei" - everything is the same, but the Main One is not there! fellow
  10. Alexey T. (Oper)
    Alexey T. (Oper) 9 February 2016 20: 15
    -1
    Quote: Riv
    Does not have, sorry for the tautology, style, i.e. formal algorithms and teaching criteria. I watched the video in the article. This is some kind of nonsense. In sneakers in the hall, no, even primitive, uniform form ...

    Those. is external shape important to you? And if everyone was dressed by rank, would that be a sign of school for you? Generally a weird approach. For me, the concept of "school" implies general methods and principles of teaching, general skills, general style of fighting. And all this is in the style of the Petersburg club of fist fighting fans.

    As for formal algorithms, in a real battle, any formalism and algorithm action means an immediate and very quick death. That’s why fisticuffs differ from martial arts - they don’t learn to act according to the algorithm, but they give them the ability to act on the basis of the actual situation. Although a certain set of basic movements is certainly present.
    1. Riv
      Riv 10 February 2016 11: 06
      0
      Of course, the external form is important. Any battle begins with what? With greetings. This is a ritual. Courage without a ritual - leads to confusion. Fidelity without a ritual is vulgarity. And a battle without a ritual is just a fight. When I watched this video in an article, at the beginning I thought that it was the art of fighting some homeless people.

      Any school also begins with a ritual. Form, bow at the entrance to the hall, greeting to the elders, mutual respect ... Without this it is impossible. One who does not understand this, even if he becomes the greatest fighter, but will always remain a loner. His art will die with him.

      In general, when my friends asked me why I was wasting time on karate, and not going to the self-defense section of the military-patriotic club, where it would be (and this is true) much easier and more interesting, I replied that for me to beat people is not the main thing. It’s more important that they don’t beat me.
      1. Alexey T. (Oper)
        Alexey T. (Oper) 10 February 2016 12: 20
        0
        I do not agree. Any battle, if it’s really a fight and not a competition for a prize or a belt, begins with the fact that they begin to try to kill or cripple you. And in this situation, there is no time for rituals and ceremonies. And the school, as the keeper of certain knowledge and skills, can perfectly do without rituals, but at the same time form a completely harmonious personality.
        1. Riv
          Riv 10 February 2016 16: 28
          0
          Okay. Go to workouts in stretched workouts and a dirty T-shirt. This means disrespect for yourself, but it is your business. And in the gym go in sneakers. This is disrespect for the rest, but they are also in shoes. So why should you respect them more than they do you?

          Why ritual? Why the ceremony? Always hit first, and even better - in the back. So more reliable.
  11. Alexey T. (Oper)
    Alexey T. (Oper) 9 February 2016 20: 20
    0
    Quote: Mr PIP

    Think very strangely, if you "did little" then where did you get professionalism for a qualitative assessment of the "importance of style" ?!

    But in life I had to apply it in a real situation, one against four. Came out the winner.
    1. Ziksura
      Ziksura 9 February 2016 21: 06
      +2
      Quote: Alexey T. (Opera)
      But in life I had to apply it in a real situation, one against four. Came out the winner.

      An acquaintance of mine never did anything, but gave the same result. Not an indicator. But three of those who were engaged in your colleagues "wrung their hands": 1) 200th with one blow (15 years), 2) Seven 300s (7 years - a year for a "client" or something what ), 3) 200th with one blow (3 years conditional, this is a turn !!!!!). By the way, no one was the initiator of the fight, No. 2 even ran away, warned in words, they did not understand. From the latter, defending a person from hooligans, my teammate knocked out the eye of an armed "rosette" aggressor .... I understand, horror. But if we are talking about the efficiency of the system ...
  12. Mister22408
    Mister22408 9 February 2016 22: 00
    +1
    Gruntovsky is really cool. I saw firsthand at Petropavlovka in training. There is someone to compare.
  13. jonht
    jonht 10 February 2016 01: 35
    -2
    If in Russia there were no military traditions, then Russia would not exist! The ancestors almost constantly fought, sometimes against external enemies, then among themselves. There was no time for long rituals and another (eastern) crap, so we don’t have any styles or schools, they taught military training in a different system and did not stretch the training for many years in the east. And now it is easy to distinguish Russian species from pseudo Russian precisely according to the system, and the physiology of a person is the same as that of a Chinese, Japanese, Greek, Russian, maybe only Svidomo by their new research showed differences from the rest of humanity ;-). He himself did a lot of things, at a wu-shu school, in a sailor's boxing, take-up-do, aikido and a little melee Kadochnikova. So the system is the most powerful side of the so-called Russian styles. If the mentor is good, then you are simply entered into the system and you start to work, and according to FIG, what is your base of tricks. (For example: you can hit with a cookie only in two ways 1. by shooting your hand at the expense of the tripper 2. or using lash effect (swing movements) But the options for how to direct this movement are already many, and if you add other muscle groups and centers of mass to this movement, the number of options will increase. And if you work with the system, you don’t learn all these blows, you work according to the situation the subconscious mind will do it faster and better than consciousness, and Eastern methods can lead to the same, but it really takes many years. Russian training systems brought to this level many times faster. There were few wars, but often fought.
    1. Riv
      Riv 10 February 2016 17: 17
      +1
      So where are all these invincible systems? Where did everything go when the Tatars came and literally five divisions (historians estimate the total number of Horde troops at about 60.000) captured the whole of Russian land? Yes, not only that. They suffered so few losses that they later successfully walked to Poland, then to Hungary ... They didn’t get to Italy.
      Probably the Tatars had better systems ... :)

      There you go guys! You need to teach the Tatar-Mongolian style. Batu Khan School, which oppresses all Russian styles. I guarantee: cut the dough with bags.
  14. Alexey T. (Oper)
    Alexey T. (Oper) 10 February 2016 21: 10
    -1
    Quote: Riv
    So where are all these invincible systems? Where did everything go when the Tatars came and literally five divisions (historians estimate the total number of Horde troops in about 60.000 people) captured the whole of Russian land?

    Where to go? And didn’t you think how many fighters Russia could put up at that time? If you don’t know, then according to the conclusions of archaeologists, the strongest principality of Vladimir could put up a maximum of about 5 thousand soldiers. MAXIMUM! With the most intense stress. Accordingly, even the combined army of all Russian principalities in total gave about 20 thousand soldiers. But they were beaten separately.

    Quote: Riv
    Yes, not only that. They suffered so few losses that they later successfully walked to Poland, then to Hungary ... They didn’t get to Italy.
    Well, you are mistaken. They did not immediately go to Europe, and after a long, almost two-year rest, during which they put themselves in order, were reorganized replenished with new soldiers.
    so even with such a clear advantage in the forces, the Russians were able to inflict such losses on them that the steppe residents were forced to retreat. Which just indicates a high level of combat training of soldiers in ancient Russia.
    1. Riv
      Riv 11 February 2016 08: 02
      +1
      Yeah ... That is, there were many fighters in Russia, but the trouble is: it was not their fate to get together and pile on the same Tatars. It turned out the opposite. Just the Tatars gathered together and the Russian heroes had a hard time. Then the Polish ... then the Hungarian and other European warriors ...

      But what interested me was this: how and what archaeologists were able to determine so accurately the size of the army that Russia could set up? According to Vernadsky, by the time of the Tatar invasion, the population of Ancient Russia was about 7.5 million people, of which about a million lived in cities. In the same Ryazan - up to 50.000 inhabitants were. Even if you take every tenth, as in the Horde, you get pretty big numbers. And if everyone, as one, stands up to defend their home, then an army should have stood on the Ryazan walls, much superior to the Tatars in numbers. What, again, not fate?

      Probably the only time this happened. Kozelsk. The Tatars stormed it for two months, which is a long time for a small town with wooden walls. But ... This is the only time in all of Russia. The true Jedi Master was probably living there. And still he was overcome.

      So teach the martial art of the Horde. Commercial success ensured. And if patriotism is hot, declare Batu and Genghis Khan disciples of the hero of Svyatogor.