Military Review

More than a century under the red banner

75



Most of the twentieth century, Russia has lived under a red flag. And the answer to the question of why it is of this color, seemed unambiguous to many. Even when Soviet children were accepted into the pioneers, they were explained: the pioneer tie is a part of the Red Banner, the color of which symbolizes the blood shed in the struggle against oppression, for the freedom and happiness of the working people.

But is it only with the blood of fighters and heroes that the origin of the paper cloth is connected?

SYMBOL OF POWER


Since ancient times, red has been a symbol of power and power. And after Julius Caesar was the first to put on a purple toga, it became a vestment for the Roman emperors (as we remember, the governor of the emperor in the province — the procurator — was content with a “white cloak with a bloody underlay”). And not by chance: red dyes were extremely expensive. It was the same in the Second Rome ”- in Byzantium. Thus, the sons of the emperor, born during his reign, had a prefix to the name Porphyrogenitus, or Porphyry, as opposed to those born before the accession of Caesar to the throne (Byzantine emperor Constantine VII Porphyrogenitus became the godfather of Princess Olga during her baptism in Constantinople in 955 year) . This tradition was maintained and later, over the centuries, red was still the prerogative of monarchs and the highest nobility. Let us recall the ceremonial portraits of royal persons: their heroes appear, if not in red robes, then necessarily on a red background.

Only red sealing wax was always used for royal seals, the use of such a seal by private individuals was strictly prohibited. In Russia, red was also considered the color of royal power, "statehood", and the sovereign's seal was placed only on red sealing wax. The Council Code 1649, the Tsar Alexei Mikhailovich for the first time introduced the concept of "state crime". And one of its first types is the use of a red print by anyone other than the king and his clerks. For this relied only one type of execution - quartering.

FRENCH HERITAGE


The Great French Revolution of the end of the XVIII century brought a revolution in all the previous orders and customs. From its first days, when crowds of urban working people gathered for stormy gatherings at the royal palace, someone thought up waving a piece of red cloth over their heads. A bold gesture was picked up with pleasure: it was a sign of rebellion, insubordination to the king. The “protesters” would say to him: “Well, here is your red color ... and what can you do with us?” In addition, commoners developed a fashion for red - “Phrygian” - caps, similar to those that were released in ancient Rome to the will of slaves. So people wanted to show: now we are free.

And the most radical group, the Jacobins, led by Robespierre, made the red flag their "trademark". They gathered under it the inhabitants of the slums of Paris, setting them against their political opponents. However, when the Jacobins themselves seized power, they abandoned a separate “ultra-revolutionary” flag and adopted the already existing blue-white-red tricolor.

It was from the time of the French Revolution that the red flag became a symbol of an unauthorized action, a struggle against the existing order ...

Incidentally, with the light hand of English writer Robert Louis Stevenson, it is considered that pirates have always committed attacks under a black flag with a skull and bones. But this is not the case - sea robbers often raised a red cloth, thereby challenging everything and everyone! Yes, and his very name "Jolly Roger" comes from the French Joyeux Rouge (bright red). And it was long before the French Revolution!

One way or another, the French themselves remembered the “rebellious” kumacha only half a century later, in 1848, when another revolution broke out in the country. The industrial bourgeoisie came to power, but the Paris "street", above all the armed workers, persistently tried to dictate their demands - to ensure the right to work, to eliminate unemployment, etc. And one more thing: change the national flag: instead of the tricolor - red. And almost everything was done. But when it came to the seemingly insignificant flag, the authorities rested. And only after a stormy debate, under the powerful pressure of the rebels, it was possible to agree: the old banner remained, but a red circle was sewn onto the blue stripe - a socket. The workers considered this to be a great victory, while the bourgeoisie was a sign of danger, an emblem of socialism, which it could not accept. The revolution was soon suppressed, and the socket was liquidated. But from now on, red has become not just a symbol of rebellion, but a social revolution. That is why in March 1871, the Paris Commune already unconditionally made the red flag its official symbol ... on the 72 of the day.

UNDER THE BANNER OF THE REVOLUTION


More than a century under the red banner

Two sides of the legally approved banner of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation. Figure from the official website of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation

However, the true recognition of the scarlet cloth was found in Russia, although it was accepted rather late - Russian rebels never used red flags. After all, not a single popular action was formally directed against the king - the masses of people would never have risen against the "anointed of God." Therefore, each leader declared himself either a "miraculously saved" king or prince, or a "great leader", which the sovereign sent himself to punish the oppressors of the people. And only at the beginning of the 20th century, after the czarist power was discredited as a result of Bloody Sunday 9 of January 1905, did “red riots” begin in the country.

Violent rallies and columns of demonstrators during the outbreak of the first Russian revolution turned out to be colored with red banners and banners. This was a double meaning: they symbolized the blood of innocent victims, shed by the royal punishers of January 9, but also a challenge to the official authorities from those who rose up in the struggle for social justice.

The sailors who rebelled in June 1905 of the year on the Prince Potemkin-Tavrichesky battleship (the monarchist press immediately dubbed them “pirates”) raised the red flag.

And during the December armed uprising in Moscow, which is considered the highest point of this revolution, red banners fluttered on almost all the barricades. And Presnya began to be called Red - even before the bloody defeat of the workers' squads by government forces.

From the first days of the February 1917 revolution of the year, Petrograd became “red” - banners, bows, armbands, flags ... Even the grand Duke Kirill Vladimirovich, defiantly, showed up in the State Duma with a red rosette in his buttonhole. And also a badge with a state emblem was issued, on which the two-headed eagle held red flags in its paws!

Soon the Bolsheviks entered the political arena. They immediately began to create armed detachments of the Red Guard - mainly from the workers, as well as soldiers and sailors. Their soldiers had a red armband with the inscription "Red Guard" and a red ribbon on the headgear. It was the Red Guards that made up the main strike force of the October armed uprising. Another powerful force that took an active part in the new Russian turmoil was the revolutionary sailors. They considered themselves the heirs of the "Potemkin" and most often acted under the red banner, although they were mostly anarchists.

For the Bolsheviks who came to power, led by Lenin, there was no doubt about the color of the new banner of Soviet Russia: only red is a symbol of the Revolution! From here the Red Army, the Red Star, the Order of the Red Banner ...

According to the decree of the Central Executive Committee of 8 on April 1918, the red flag of the Soviet Republic was approved as a state flag and as a battle flag of its Armed Forces. However, in size, shape, slogans on the panels, he did not have a single sample. Inscriptions were taken mainly from the appeals of the Bolshevik Party: “For the power of the Soviets!”, “Peace to the huts - war to the palaces!”, “Forward to the bright kingdom of communism!” And others.

The USSR Constitution 1924 of the year approved the national flag of the country, which was a red cloth depicting a sickle and hammer and a five-pointed star "as a symbol of the unbreakable union of workers and peasants in the struggle to build a communist society." This symbolism remained “in force” until the collapse of the USSR in 1991. At all official and unofficial events of the Land of Soviets - congresses and conferences, demonstrations and parades, and solemn gatherings - red dominated. Victory Banner was red, hoisted by Soviet soldiers over the Reichstag in 1945.

In the end, even the name of the main "ceremonial" square of the country - Red - was unwittingly reinterpreted in the same, Soviet-revolutionary, vein, and I had to specifically clarify that in this case the name is old and means "beautiful."

In the run-up to the collapse of the Soviet Union, when general mass “exposures” of everything connected with history of the Soviet period, the calls for abandoning the red flag as the personification of the communist government were increasingly repeated. Then even the “red-brown” cliche appeared, which was applied to all who opposed the “democratic renewal of the country” ...

Some radical democratic movements (not to mention monarchists) began to use the pre-revolutionary tricolor at their events since 1988, gradually it became established in the public consciousness as a symbol of the future new Russia. All “red” should have been left in the past.

August 22 1991, after the defeat of the putsch of the State Emergency Committee, the emergency session of the Supreme Soviet of the RSFSR decided to consider the “historical” white-blue-red official flag of the Russian Federation - the one that was the official flag of the Russian Empire from 1883 to 1917 (resolution 1 of November V Congress of People's Deputies). Red banners in the Armed Forces were also canceled, they were withdrawn from all parts and replaced with tricolor ones. However, not everyone in our country accepted such changes, especially in the army. The left political forces were not going to give up the red flags.

29 December 2000 of the year Russian President Vladimir Putin approved the law on the banner of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation (in the USSR there was no such uniform banner). The main military banner of Russia bore a symbolic — unifying — meaning, including heraldic elements from different eras of Russian history: red, five-pointed stars and a two-headed eagle. At the same time, the Red Banners, famous for their glory, were returned to military units.
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http://nvo.ng.ru/realty/2016-02-05/7_glag.html
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  1. teascher
    teascher 7 February 2016 07: 05 New
    12
    Overthrow the mighty hand
    Depression is fatal forever.
    And hoist over the earth
    Red banner of labor.
    1. vladimirZ
      vladimirZ 7 February 2016 10: 42 New
      11
      The greedy horde of the bourgeois of the damned
      We declare our war
      Beat the plutocrats, burn the adversaries,
      Free the country from oppression!

      Rise up the Red Banner
      Glorious banner of labor squads
      Our leaders Lenin and Stalin
      In the red lines of the enemy we will defeat!

      Glory to labor, death to capital!

      - A. Kharchikov, naval officer, bard of patriotic songs.
      1. sabakina
        sabakina 7 February 2016 15: 01 New
        +1
        Oh, comrades, comrades ... They poured salt on the wounds ...
    2. RUSS
      RUSS 7 February 2016 11: 31 New
      +8
      At the same time, their red flags covered with glory were returned to military units.
      The author is wrong, the red banners in the 2000s were not returned to the units, on the contrary they were replaced by new ones, but at the parades and other holidays they carry both the old Soviet and the new banners.
    3. Avantageur
      Avantageur 7 February 2016 12: 18 New
      +3
      Who doesn’t want to become a standard-bearer
      Learn and work, take part in the struggle / And the red banner will be entrusted to you.
  2. teascher
    teascher 7 February 2016 07: 08 New
    +4
    Rise of Babek: 8th-9th Century
    The cavalry consisted of units ranging in size from 200 to 500 people. Each detachment had its own banner, the main banner was at Babek. They were all red, like the clothing of the rebels; therefore, sources often call babekites "dressed in red" or "red-banner". In our opinion, the Khurramites were the first in history to use red as a symbol of the liberation struggle.
    1. The comment was deleted.
  3. teascher
    teascher 7 February 2016 07: 11 New
    +7
    tens of thousands of workers who were repairing the channel of the Great Canal became the backbone of the uprising that broke out in 1351. To distinguish themselves from the rest of the workers, they tied their heads with red long pieces of cloth, as a result of which their rebellion became known as the "Rise of the Red Bandages" or " Red turbans. " And the uprising rolled all over China.
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 7 February 2016 11: 33 New
      +2
      Quote: teascher
      tens of thousands of workers who were repairing the channel of the Great Canal became the backbone of the uprising that broke out in 1351. To distinguish themselves from the rest of the workers, they tied their heads with red long pieces of cloth, as a result of which their rebellion became known as the "Rise of the Red Bandages" or " Red turbans. " And the uprising rolled all over China.
  4. yuriy55
    yuriy55 7 February 2016 07: 13 New
    +1
    According to the history of the State Flag:
    http://nomadlife.narod.ru/Russia/RussiaFlags/1FlagRus.html

    For me, the one in the profile is closer and more familiar ...
    1. cap
      cap 7 February 2016 07: 17 New
      +3
      Quote: yuriy55
      For me, the one in the profile is closer and more familiar ...


      Similarly. drinks
      1. inkass_98
        inkass_98 7 February 2016 07: 39 New
        +2
        Yes you are originals laughing
        And yet - drinks
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. PHANTOM-AS
        PHANTOM-AS 7 February 2016 13: 27 New
        10
        Apparently, you have to start all over again.
        1. RUSS
          RUSS 7 February 2016 13: 40 New
          -7
          Quote: PHANTOM-AS
          Apparently, you have to start all over again.

          On the Maidan?
          1. PHANTOM-AS
            PHANTOM-AS 7 February 2016 15: 06 New
            +3
            But does this look like a maidan?
            1. RUSS
              RUSS 7 February 2016 18: 16 New
              +3
              Quote: PHANTOM-AS
              But does this look like a maidan?

              All armed uprisings are alike, but the results are different .....
          2. The comment was deleted.
  5. Mangel olys
    Mangel olys 7 February 2016 07: 18 New
    +9
    "The red banner was a symbol of popular uprisings in medieval Europe and during the Great French Revolution, it also, as a symbol of shed blood, became the banner of the Paris Commune. In Russia, the red banner was first raised in 1861 by the rebellious peasants of the Penza province. It will rise again in the time of the first political demonstration in Russia, in December 1876 in St. Petersburg.Under the red banner, the first May Day celebrations, workers' strikes took place, it became the banner of the 1905 revolution, the February and October revolutions.The red banner was proclaimed the state flag of the RSFSR by the Decree of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee of April 14 1918 In June 1926, the Central Executive Committee and the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR approved a single sample of the red banner for the units of the Red Army.
    Flag of the RSFSR. Sample 1918 of the year. (1918-1920)
    After the October Revolution, the role of the state flag in the first months of Soviet power was played by a rectangular red panel that did not have any inscriptions or emblems. However, this type of state flag was not established by any regulatory documents (the official name adopted by the Provisional Government - the Russian Republic and the white-blue-red flag) were legally preserved.
    10 July 1918 year The V All-Russian Congress of Soviets approved the first Constitution of the RSFSR, which was published 19 July of the same year. Article 90 of the Constitution contained a description: “The merchant, naval and military flag of R. S. F. S. R. consists of a red (scarlet) color cloth, in the upper left corner of which, at the pole, are the golden letters: R. C. F. S. R. or the inscription: Russian Socialist Federative Soviet Republic ”(The Constitution of the RSFSR of 1937 of the year also confirmed the use of this flag as a state flag, although it changed the name of the state to“ Russian Soviet Federative Socialist Republic ”).
    USSR flag according to the "Regulation on the State Flag of the USSR" of August 19 1955
    On August 19 of 1955, by Decree of the Presidium of the Supreme Soviet of the USSR, the “Regulation on the State Flag of the USSR” was approved in a new edition, article 2 of which read:

    “The national flag of the USSR consists of a red rectangular panel with an image on its upper corner near the shaft of gold sickle and hammer and above them a red five-pointed star framed by a gold border. Ratio of width to length 1: 2. The sickle and hammer fit into a square whose side is equal to 1 / 4 of the width of the flag. The sharp end of the sickle falls in the middle of the upper side of the square, the handles of the sickle and hammer rest against the lower corners of the square. The length of the hammer with the handle is 3 / 4 of the diagonal of the square. The five-pointed star fits into a circle with a diameter in 1 / 8 of the width of the flag, touching the upper side of the square. The distance of the vertical axis of the star, sickle, and hammer from the shaft is 1 / 3 of the width of the flag. The distance of the vertical axis of the star, sickle, and hammer from the shaft is 1 / 3 of the width of the flag. The distance from the top of the flag to the center of the star is 1 / 8 of the width of the flag. ”
    Source: http://www.great-country.ru/articles/sssr/aboutsssr/sssr/00010.html
  6. rustyle_nvrsk
    rustyle_nvrsk 7 February 2016 07: 41 New
    -29 qualifying.
    It’s good that we were reminded - you need to get hold of the next demonstration with red ball rags - it is very suitable for mopping.
  7. inkass_98
    inkass_98 7 February 2016 07: 43 New
    +1
    Some radical democratic movements (not to mention monarchists) began to use the pre-revolutionary tricolor at their events since 1988.

    In fact, monarchists almost always used the imperial flag, such as this, or with variations
    .
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 7 February 2016 12: 15 New
      +2
      Quote: inkass_98
      monarchists almost always used the imperial flag,

      What do you mean "almost always"? On the contrary, it began to be massively used only in the last 20 years, and even then nationalists and pseudo-monarchists, and at some kind of marginal rallies.
  8. ImPerts
    ImPerts 7 February 2016 07: 47 New
    11
    I am also familiar, the one given at the beginning. But I calmly accept the new one, combining the features inherent in flags of different historical periods. We still have to put up with our past. The French, on the other hand, live with the awareness of the greatness of the French Revolution, although it brought much grief and destruction. And the dictatorship, and then the empire of Napoleon is also magnified and proud. And do not break the monuments, do not dig up the grave. I criticize Nicholas, I do not like Trotsky, I honor Stalin, I am resentful at the mention of Khrushchev, I warmly nostalgic for Brezhnev ... And so on, in any case, this is my story, I should not rip out and pull pieces out of it.
  9. parusnik
    parusnik 7 February 2016 07: 48 New
    +1
    Some radical democratic movements (not to mention monarchists) ... Monarchists use the black-yellow-white flag .... the coat of arms of the Russian Empire ...
  10. blizart
    blizart 7 February 2016 08: 19 New
    11
    Whatever you say, the army under the Red Banners has led Russia into the category of true superpowers. The point is not only what enemy was defeated, but also who fought with the Russians under the common flag. As a matter of fact, in large quantities on a regular basis, immigrants from other countries, not even peoples, served in the Russian army only under the USSR. For tens of thousands: Kazakhs, Georgians, Armenians, Estonians, Latvians, etc. and their descendants, no higher rank than Hero of the Soviet Union.
  11. Gardamir
    Gardamir 7 February 2016 08: 37 New
    +4
    For me, blue-white-red is the color of European liberals. Black-yellow Germanic or Byzantine. Type in the search, even Dmitry Donskoy, even Alexander Nevsky how much red there.
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 7 February 2016 11: 43 New
      +5
      Quote: Gardamir
      Type in the search, even Dmitry Donskoy, even Alexander Nevsky how much red there.

      For example, regimental banners of archers of the 17 century, as such are red, if only a few can be considered.
      1. Andrey Skokovsky
        Andrey Skokovsky 7 February 2016 16: 01 New
        +3
        Quote: RUSS
        For example, regimental banners of archers of the 17 century, as such are red, if only a few can be considered.

        the variety of regimental banners of different states in the Middle Ages is associated with the need to control troops during battles,
        it is actually a means of communication of the battlefield of that time and is loosely connected with the state flag of the country
      2. Thunderbolt
        Thunderbolt 7 February 2016 16: 52 New
        +3
        The banners of the Streltsy regiments had a purely utilitarian purpose - to serve as a guideline for military commanders on the battlefield. so that they can see where the regiment is located. How would the commander distinguish between the positions of his regiments on the battlefield if all the banners were red? But, however, under the number 1 you see the banner of the 1st Moscow order of Yegor Lutokhin in the picture. What was it for the order (consider the regiment in our opinion) and how did it differ from other archery regiments?
        In Moscow, the first number was the so-called stirrup order, which was usually 1,5-2 times superior in number to the rest. Sagittarius of this unit were partially or completely mounted on horses, they were never sent from Moscow to border cities for service and were constantly with the person of the king.
        Consequently, the tsar’s personal guard was dressed in red caftans and their battle flag was also red.
        1. RUSS
          RUSS 7 February 2016 17: 33 New
          +2
          Quote: Thunderbolt
          Consequently, the tsar’s personal guard was dressed in red caftans and their battle flag was also red.

          Which king? and if not difficult, discard the image of this banner.
          1. Thunderbolt
            Thunderbolt 7 February 2016 19: 48 New
            +3
            In fact, I duplicate the picture. Well, nothing: Tsar and Emperor Peter 1.

            One of the first banners of Peter I of 1696, in the tradition of ancestors.
            Banner of the old form with a central part and a slope. Made from red taffeta with the image of a golden double-headed eagle and figures of saints. The eagle in its claws holds spears entwined with ribbons, and under the eagle the sea with sailing ships is depicted.
            Probably the banner was made for the second Azov campaign.
            "Color dress" and hundreds of banners of Moscow Streltsy orders. 1674 (according to E. Palmqvist):
            1st (stirrup) - Yegor Petrovich Lutokhin - (1500 people)
            2nd - Ivan Fedorovich Poltev - (1000 people)
            3rd - Vasily Borisovich Bukhvostov - (1000 people)
            4th - Fedor Ivanovich Golovlinsky - (800 people)
            5th - Fedor Vasilyevich Alexandrov - (800 people)
            6th - Nikifor Ivanovich Kolobov - (900 people)
            7th - Stefan Fedorovich Yanov - (1000 people)
            8th - Timofey Fedorovich Poltev - (800 people)
            9th - Pyotr Abramovich Lopukhin - (1200 people)
            10th - Fedor Abramovich Lopukhin - (1000 people)
            11th - Davyd Grigorievich Vorontsov - (600 people)
            12th - Ivan Ivanovich Naramansky - (600 people)
            13th - (?) Lagovskina (600 people)
            14th - Afanasy Ivanovich Levshin - (1000 people)
            Read more: http://swordmaster.org/2010/10/08/moskovskie-strelcy-neprimennye-voyska-russkogo


            -gosudarstva-xvii-veka.html
            1. Thunderbolt
              Thunderbolt 7 February 2016 20: 00 New
              0
              And more about the personal guard))) fig. 1 Emperor Nicholas II in the form of His Own Imperial Majesty the Convoy fig. 2 Red Army soldier of the Personal Convoy L.D. Trotsky
            2. RUSS
              RUSS 7 February 2016 20: 04 New
              0
              Quote: Thunderbolt
              In fact, I duplicate the picture. Tsar and Emperor Peter 1.

              You copied the official flag, and previously wrote about
              Quote: Thunderbolt
              Consequently, the tsar’s personal guard was dressed in red caftans and their battle flag was also red.

              That is, and where exactly king’s personal guard banner? not stamped.

              PS Peter I — for the first time the guardsmen were Probrazhenitsy and Semenovtsy, and their banners were clearly not red ...
              1. Thunderbolt
                Thunderbolt 7 February 2016 22: 39 New
                0
                Quote: RUSS
                where exactly is the banner of the king’s personal guard?
                E .... On your and my pictures under No. 1 the banner of the stirruping tsar’s regiment (white cross on red background). And their uniform was the color of their banner.
                Quote: RUSS
                Peter I — for the first time the guardsmen were Probrazhenitsy and Semenovtsy, and their banners were clearly not red ...
                After the abolition of the stirrup regiment and the introduction of regiments of a new system, the tradition of distinguishing (call it what you want: princely squad, personal regiment, guard) the military formation closest to the tsar's throne in scarlet color was broken. Then why should we be surprised. The innovations of Peter 1 in the military sphere were useful for building a modern army of that time. But he had to sacrifice a lot, for example, heraldic traditions. And all the same, some kind of instinctive higher truth nevertheless made its way over time. This we see in the Company of Palace Grenadiers and in the red bibs of the Preobrazhenets and in many other details. Well, Russian heraldry loves this color when it comes to the highest Power. P.S. So rascals and charlatans of all stripes sense that the color of scarlet is the color of the highest power in Russia. And the swindler's seal is red and the flag of his state "Third Rome" is red. And after all, you bastard, does not blush bully I won’t upload photos of a citizen of His Imperial Majesty. But I’ll probably post these artifacts. Well, neighing)))))))))))) PP.SS. Such funny personalities very disgrace the idea of ​​the revival of the monarchy, by the way.
  12. Gormenghast
    Gormenghast 7 February 2016 08: 48 New
    +6
    The vast majority of stars in the universe are red dwarfs. smile

    It is important here that "most" So what "small, ordinary stars".

    Red color symbolizes that most ordinary people inevitably will triumph over the small so-called carriers blue blood. laughing

    It is also known that blue supergiants live very little and explode as a result of their lives. Like all bourgeois. laughing

    And now let's remember the uprising of the red-browed, the uprising of the redheads and the uprising "red bandages"This is all China. China is a socialist state so far. laughing

    Psychologically, red color promotes activity, friendliness, confidence; gives self-confidence, readiness for action, promotes a statement of strength and capabilities. At the same time, in large quantities causes anger and rage.

    Therefore, it is clear that the weak effeminate bourgeois are afraid of him and prefer other colors; most often - blue (“Homosexuality is a product of the decomposition of the exploiting classes, which do not know what to do. Among our workers, who stand on the point of view of normal relations between the sexes, who build their society on healthy principles, we do not need such masters” ( Nikolay Krylenko, people's commissar of justice of the USSR). laughing

    Such are the associations. am
  13. engineer
    engineer 7 February 2016 09: 30 New
    +5
    the red flag is a signal of battle not only for pirates. British fleet ships also hoisted a red flag. signaling to the enemy. that the battle will be to annihilation.
    1. Pig
      Pig 7 February 2016 09: 57 New
      +4
      "But this is not so - sea robbers most often raised a red cloth, thereby challenging everything and everyone!"
      it’s not only British and pirates, it’s in all fleets so ...
      the red flag on the ship means "to battle!" rises only on warships
  14. Stas57
    Stas57 7 February 2016 11: 20 New
    17
    what else to say?
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 7 February 2016 12: 01 New
      +1
      Quote: Stas57
      what else to say?

      And we can also say that our banners developed in Berlin in October 1760, in Paris in March 1814, etc.
      We will be objective, we will remember and honor the victories that we achieved under the Russian autocrats.
      1. sergo1914
        sergo1914 7 February 2016 12: 10 New
        +7
        With all due respect, those wars were not wars for the extermination of peoples, unlike the Great Patriotic War. Fascism is defeated under the red banner with a golden star, sickle and hammer.
        It is this Banner - the Symbol of Victory.
        1. RUSS
          RUSS 7 February 2016 12: 22 New
          -4
          Quote: sergo1914
          With all due respect, those wars were not wars for the extermination of peoples, unlike the Great Patriotic War.

          Less to you, since the war with Napoleon of 1812 was called and is referred to exactly as World War 1812
          Quote: sergo1914
          It is this Banner - the Symbol of Victory.

          It’s true that this is not a generic name - Victory Symbol, but officiallyRussian legislation established that “the Victory Banner is the official symbol of the victory of the Soviet people and their Armed Forces over fascist Germany in the Great Patriotic War of 1941-1945, the state relic of Russia” and “is in eternal storage in conditions ensuring its safety and availability for viewing
          1. RUSS
            RUSS 7 February 2016 13: 00 New
            +3
            I wonder why the cons? For the correct definition - Victory Banner? Or because the war of 1812 was and is domestic?
      2. Stas57
        Stas57 7 February 2016 13: 33 New
        +1
        what?
        and if you have a red flag causes a tantrum ....
        1. RUSS
          RUSS 7 February 2016 13: 41 New
          0
          Quote: Stas57
          and if you have a red flag causes a tantrum ....

          Brad.
        2. RUSS
          RUSS 7 February 2016 14: 28 New
          -1
          Quote: Stas57
          what?
          and if you have a red flag causes a tantrum ....

          By the way, many write that thanks to Stalin, Khrushchev and the Communist Party, we were the first to fly into space, and thanks to whom and why did the Americans land on the moon?
          1. Stas57
            Stas57 7 February 2016 14: 33 New
            +2
            Quote: RUSS
            space, and thanks to whom and why did the Americans land on the moon?

            you will not believe, the same thanks to the USSR
            1. RUSS
              RUSS 7 February 2016 18: 19 New
              +1
              Quote: Stas57
              Quote: RUSS
              space, and thanks to whom and why did the Americans land on the moon?

              you will not believe, the same thanks to the USSR

              I won’t believe it right, I’ll rather believe that thanks to the fascist developments in rocket science, which the Americans moved from Germany in the 40s
              1. gladcu2
                gladcu2 8 February 2016 20: 13 New
                0
                Russ

                German developments. And experts.
                Fascists are not a nation.

                The USSR was motivated primarily by its development successes. American space programs are a consequence of the competition between the two systems. But the USSR space program is space exploration. It’s right to reason. And in confirmation, just imagine that spaceflight for Americans did not have applied commercial interest. So they were not unnecessary.
          2. gladcu2
            gladcu2 8 February 2016 20: 07 New
            0
            Russ

            Actually, there are photos of the landing module. If you are not too lazy to look. There will be many questions.

            But!!!

            All attempts to create social protection for US citizens are an imitation of the USSR. Roosevelt really liked the social protection system. Began advertising the life of the USSR. Even Hollywood has released several pro-Soviet films. But with the advent of Truman, everything returned to the ass.
  15. sergo1914
    sergo1914 7 February 2016 12: 25 New
    +3
    Quote: RUSS
    Quote: sergo1914
    With all due respect, those wars were not wars for the extermination of peoples, unlike the Great Patriotic War.
    Less to you, since the war with Napoleon of 1812 was called and is referred to precisely as the Patriotic War of 1812.


    Napoleon did not build a concentration camp, ignoramus. You do not see the difference between Hitler and Napoleon?
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 7 February 2016 12: 38 New
      -9
      Quote: sergo1914
      Quote: RUSS
      Quote: sergo1914
      With all due respect, those wars were not wars for the extermination of peoples, unlike the Great Patriotic War.
      Less to you, since the war with Napoleon of 1812 was called and is referred to precisely as the Patriotic War of 1812.


      Napoleon did not build a concentration camp, ignoramus. You do not see the difference between Hitler and Napoleon?


      Somehow you quickly wrote me down in ignorance.
      In the war of 1812, Russia did not resist the “will of the French people”, but the very ideology of the secular Modern, the very spirit of the New Age. And just as Napoleon himself was not quite French, his empire was not quite French. By 1811, Napoleon's empire included 71 million people out of 172 million people throughout Europe. As part of the "Great Army" 450 thousand soldiers moved to Moscow, of which only half were French. It is no coincidence that this intervention was called the "invasion of two hundred languages." In this war, two Europes clashed, Christian Europe and Godless Europe, a direct prototype of the future European Union. And as before, Russia again fulfilled its mission of the Third Rome, saving not only itself, but the whole Christian world.

      PS The organizer of the first concentration camps - V.I. Lenin
      On 9 on August 1918, Lenin wrote in a telegram to the Penza Provincial Executive Committee and Eugenia Bosch: “It is necessary to organize enhanced security from selectively reliable people, to conduct merciless mass terror against the kulaks, priests and White Guards; dubious lock up in a concentration camp outside the city "
      1. RUSS
        RUSS 7 February 2016 12: 46 New
        -4
        Well, that Sergey fell silent, where are your counterarguments? Is everyone exhausted?
      2. Stas57
        Stas57 7 February 2016 13: 41 New
        +4
        Somehow you quickly wrote me down in ignorance.

        and there is a reason
        The organizer of the first concentration camps - V.I. Lenin

        what is true. but nothing that he appeared back in Aglo-Boer?
        Yes, and with the civilian problem ...
        In Russia, disputes continue between representatives of various ideological concepts - so who was the first to open concentration camps in the Civil War, red or white. But history answers this question with extreme accuracy: the first concentration camp in Russia during the Civil was founded by the British on August 23 of 1918 on the Mudyug Island in the White Sea, near the mouth of the Dvina and the city of Arkhangelsk.
        On 2 on June 1919, the British transferred the concentration camp to the white government of the Northern Region. By this time, from 1242, 23 prisoners were shot, 310 died of illness and ill-treatment, more than 150 people became disabled.

        The White Guards who replaced the British turned out to be no less cruel overseers. On 15 of September 1919, an uprising broke out in the camp. 53 people managed to break through the wire and reached the shore of the Dry Sea (the strait separating the island from the mainland), where they captured the longboats of local fishermen and fled to the mainland. During the suppression of the uprising, 11 people were killed, 13 were shot the next day by the verdict of a military field court. Immediately after this, the camp was transferred to Yokanga (Kola Peninsula) on the territory of the former naval base. This concentration camp was finally abolished in February 1920, during the advance of the Red Army.

        Source: V.I. Ignatieff. Some facts and results of the 4 years of the Civil War / White North. Arkhangelsk, 1993. T.1.
      3. Stas57
        Stas57 7 February 2016 13: 52 New
        +2
        Quote: RUSS
        On 9 on August 1918, Lenin wrote in a telegram to the Penza Provincial Executive Committee and Eugenia Bosch: “It is necessary to organize enhanced security from selectively reliable people, to conduct merciless mass terror against the kulaks, priests and White Guards; dubious lock up in a concentration camp outside the city "

        ololo
        how scary that.
        to tell about the Oryol concentration camp and nightmares from it, or will you find it yourself?


        to whom laziness
        The pastime of the imprisoned officers was filled with various jobs - from one-time physical labor to regular service in Soviet institutions (despite the objections of the Chekists) - in various departments of the executive committee, the Revolutionary Tribunal, the Cheka, schools and even Oryol State University. In the office of the concentration camp of 10, seven employees were imprisoned officers (and two more were sent to the office of the concentration camp N ° 2), which meant accepting full-time employees as employees, that is, a noticeable improvement in nutrition.

        Freedom of movement inside the camp - in buildings and in the yard - was not limited in the daytime, but after a hang-up was punishable by arrest for three days. The escort of prisoners was especially poorly organized, as a result of which only from 2 to 10 of September 1920, “from external work” did 12 officers flee. By October 1920, several copies of newspapers were daily delivered to the camp, there was a library in 1685 volumes, a choir and a drama troupe, as well as lectures on agriculture, beekeeping, and training of the road forefathers were carried out - that is, social adaptation was carried out in case of release.
        ....

        In the course of the amnesty for the 4 anniversary of October, according to the decree of the Lip of Justice from 11 - 12 on February 1922, 105 former white officers were freed and from 13-14 on February 1922 - also 107; According to reports, only three prisoners of this category were left in the camp. Thus, 212 people were transferred for employment to the jurisdiction of the Oryol Provincial Executive Committee.

        It is documented that in 1922 — 1923. some officers — former prisoners of the Oryol concentration camp who had early retired — were not only free, but also served in the Red Army. This is Lieutenant E.N. Kozlovtsev, centurion T.V. Bokov and coronet G.V. Kozlov, and two of them were removed from the special register of former whites.
        1. RUSS
          RUSS 7 February 2016 14: 31 New
          -8
          Quote: Stas57
          how scary that.
          to tell about the Oryol concentration camp and nightmares from it, or will you find it yourself?

          In, in -You, as the authorities of Latvia, the concentration camp of Saalaspils, is called labor camp, so are you!
          1. Stas57
            Stas57 7 February 2016 14: 48 New
            +2
            Quote: RUSS
            In, in -You, as the authorities of Latvia, the concentration camp of Saalaspils, is called labor camp, so are you!


            now hysteria, with the substitution of concepts.

            Firstly, this is the official name- "Oryol Concentration Camp of Forced Labor No. 1"
            and unlike the Baltic states, they didn’t really kill or shoot anyone there.
            Yes, here’s such a concentration camp, where some even managed to get married and occupy large posts in power.
            Secondly, there is an unbiased study of the issue.

            again, on the shelves
            quote
            Quote: RUSS
            On 9 on August 1918, Lenin wrote in a telegram to the Penza Provincial Executive Committee and Eugenia Bosch: “It is necessary to organize enhanced security from selectively reliable people, to conduct merciless mass terror against the kulaks, priests and White Guards; dubious lock up in a concentration camp outside the city "


            the dubious ones were locked up in the Oryol concentration camp; they fed, watered, found a job, well, sorry, war, they didn’t give the foie gras.
            no one was shot, not nailed.
            we follow hands and see where the substitution of concepts

            Quote: RUSS
            In, in -You, as the authorities of Latvia, the concentration camp of Saalaspils, is called labor camp, so are you!


            Ways to kill prisoners of Salaspil camp

            Execution by hanging;
            Death in "gas chambers" - special gas chambers installed in motor vehicles ("Gazvagenahs");
            Burial alive in the ground (testimony of prisoners, as evidenced by the conclusion of forensic experts from 12 December 1944 year);
            Killing by crushing heads with butts - a method directly prescribed by the camp instructions
            to kill children "in order to save ammunition."



            and now the question is, how many were killed in the Oryol concentration camp? -0
            in Salaspils? from 20 to 100 thousand.


            Although I’m glad that you recognized the fact of the existence of concentration camps in Soviet Russia in the 20's


            I recognized and wrote how it looked on an example, what in the end?

            as a result, we have before us the usual victim of propaganda, only now neo-emigrant. and like any victim, she is unable to answer tangible facts.
            and that means to prove so slaughtered it makes absolutely no sense, adyu.
            1. RUSS
              RUSS 7 February 2016 17: 39 New
              -4
              Quote: Stas57
              now hysteria, with the substitution of concepts.

              You and the whole Soviet historiography are doing the substitution of concepts just the same, historiography, thank God.
        2. RUSS
          RUSS 7 February 2016 18: 56 New
          -1
          Not surprising Stas57that you justify the Bolsheviks because you are, judging by the avatar, a terrorist from the "red brigades" or a sympathizer for them.
          1. gladcu2
            gladcu2 8 February 2016 20: 35 New
            0
            Russ

            The Bolsheviks must be thanked for the revival of the state and the preservation of the nation.

            At the expense of voluntary forced labor, one can also recall the labor armies during the great depression. With the help of which a wide network of highways in the USA has appeared. It is an example that for the survival of society, all means are good.
  16. sergo1914
    sergo1914 7 February 2016 12: 45 New
    +5
    Quote: RUSS
    PS The organizer of the first concentration camps - V.I. Lenin



    Quote: RUSS
    Somehow you quickly wrote me down in ignorance.


    Well, the victim of the exam. I’ll write it down to experts in Russian history.
    PS Do not disgrace such statements anymore.
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 7 February 2016 12: 51 New
      -5
      Quote: sergo1914
      Well, the victim of the exam. I’ll write it down to experts in Russian history.

      I graduated from high school long before the USE was introduced and thanks for enrolling in the "experts".
      Quote: sergo1914
      PS Do not disgrace such statements anymore.

      On July 23, 1918, the Petrograd Committee of the RCP (B.), Having decided on the Red Terror, decided in particular the taking of hostages and the "establishment of labor (concentration) camps." In August of the same year, concentration camps began to be created in various cities of Russia.
  17. sergo1914
    sergo1914 7 February 2016 13: 11 New
    +6
    Quote: RUSS
    July 23, 1918 Petrograd Committee of the RCP (B.), Having decided on the Red Terror


    In response to what such a decision was made? Whom did the Bolsheviks release on parole not to fight against the new government? Who, having got to the Don, safely forgot about an honest noble word? Who sold Russia to the interventionists and whom did the Red Army, along with these interventionists, kick out of the RSFSR?
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 7 February 2016 13: 18 New
      -5
      Quote: sergo1914
      In response to what such a decision was made

      To you, Putin recently said, "well, it is clear why the White Guards were killed, and why the priests?"
      Cossacks of the same almost brought to the root, the peasants of the wealthy and not only their intelligentsia for what?
      Although it is encouraging that you recognized the fact of the existence of concentration camps in Soviet Russia in the 20s, and you know what I will say most of all I don’t understand why you don’t recognize the obvious miscalculations, mistakes and simply crimes of the Soviet government especially at the dawn of its formation?
  18. sergo1914
    sergo1914 7 February 2016 14: 12 New
    +5
    “Do not take these rascals to me captive! The more terror, the more victory will be with them! ”

    Who said? Do you know?

    Or that

    "The captured, after receiving information about the actions of the Bolsheviks, were shot by the commandant's detachment. The officers of the commandant's detachment at the end of the campaign were very sick people, before that they got nervous. Korvin-Krukovsky had some kind of special painful cruelty. the duty to shoot the Bolsheviks, but, unfortunately, I knew many cases when, under the influence of hatred for the Bolsheviks, officers took on the responsibility of voluntarily shooting those taken prisoner. Executions were necessary. Under the conditions in which the Volunteer Army was moving, it could not take prisoners , there was no one to lead them, and if the prisoners had been released, the next day they would have fought again against the detachment "

    What did Putin say about this? Or is it again Lenin that prevents Vladimir Vladimirovich from living?

    In 1918, under the "white" government in the northern territory with a population of about 400 thousand people, 38 thousand were arrested, of which about 8 thousand were shot, more than a thousand died from beating and illness

    The data on the victims of white terror are quite different depending on the source, it is reported that in June 1918 supporters of the white movement in the territories occupied by them shot 824 people from among the Bolsheviks and sympathizers, in July 1918 - 4 people, in August 141 - more than 1918 6 people

    A total of 22 Soviet workers were destroyed by counterrevolutionaries in July 1918 in 4141 provinces of Central Russia. According to incomplete data, over the past 7 months of 1918, in the territory of 13 provinces, White Guards executed 22 people.

    Lenin, you say, came up with?
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 7 February 2016 14: 33 New
      -3
      Quote: sergo1914
      Lenin, you say, came up with?

      I say
      Red Terror is a complex of punitive measures carried out by the Bolsheviks during the Civil War in Russia (1917-1923) against social groups proclaimed class enemies, as well as against people accused of counter-revolutionary activities. It was part of the repressive state policy of the Bolshevik government, and was applied in practice both through the implementation of legislative acts and outside the framework of any legislation. He served as a means of intimidating both anti-Bolshevik forces and the people who did not take part in the Civil War. The Bolsheviks used terror and violence extensively against the "class enemies" before, even before the official declaration of the decree of September 5, 1918 "On Red Terror".
      In total, 1917 thousand people were executed by the verdicts of the revolutionary tribunals and extra-judicial meetings of the Cheka in 1922-140.
    2. moskowit
      moskowit 7 February 2016 14: 45 New
      +5
      What, however, you are radicals ... Why so aggressively blame each other in the absence of knowledge. Be tolerant of each other. In such a squirting saliva polemic, you will never prove anything ...

      "How do you tie a tie,
      Take care of him:
      He after all with a red banner
      The colors of one.
      And under this banner
      The fight goes fighters,
      For the homeland are fighting
      Brothers and fathers.

      How to tie a tie,
      You are a brighter face ...
      How many guys
      He was pierced with lead! ..
      Pioneer tie -
      There is no his brother!
      He is from young blood
      It became even redder.

      How to tie a tie,
      Take care of him:
      He after all with a red banner
      One color. "Stepan Shchipachev
  19. Signaller
    Signaller 7 February 2016 14: 53 New
    +2
    And I personally am proud of the Motherland with its banner of victory, RED, AND I WILL BE always proud. And this is chatter to me, on the big drum. Our grandfathers fought with this banner, they handed us this banner. I think we will hold.
  20. sergo1914
    sergo1914 7 February 2016 17: 03 New
    0
    Quote: RUSS
    . The terror and violence of the Bolsheviks were widely used against the "class enemies" before, even before the official declaration of the decree of September 5, 1918 "On the Red Terror"


    That is, asking a person for an honest word not to fight against the young Soviet Republic is terror. And when Cossacks cut a heart from a living person with checkers - is this a prank?

    Correctly said stas57. Substitution of concepts.
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 7 February 2016 17: 37 New
      -2
      Quote: sergo1914
      And when Cossacks cut a heart from a living person with checkers - is this a prank?

      You probably still scare children and Kolchak Denikin?
  21. sergo1914
    sergo1914 7 February 2016 19: 01 New
    +2
    Quote: RUSS
    Quote: sergo1914
    And when Cossacks cut a heart from a living person with checkers - is this a prank?

    You probably still scare children and Kolchak Denikin?


    Do you have Kolchak for Santa Claus for the New Year?
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 7 February 2016 19: 14 New
      0
      Quote: sergo1914
      Do you have Kolchak for Santa Claus for the New Year?

      No wrangel
      and you who Santa Claus is clear Vissarionych, and who is the snow maiden? Rosa Luxemburg or this psychic Rosalia Zemlyachka?
  22. bbss
    bbss 7 February 2016 19: 33 New
    +3
    The Lord is never wrong. Evil Bolsheviks defeated the good White Guards. How many did not oppress the Bolsheviks of workers and peasants, how many whites did not flap angelic white wings, and in the bright future the country went for the red ones. The current situevina proves that nowhere, besides ... experiments, white cannot get.
  23. sergo1914
    sergo1914 7 February 2016 20: 03 New
    +1
    Quote: RUSS
    Quote: sergo1914
    Do you have Kolchak for Santa Claus for the New Year?

    No wrangel
    and you who Santa Claus is clear Vissarionych, and who is the snow maiden? Rosa Luxemburg or this psychic Rosalia Zemlyachka?


    I have Santa Claus - Santa Claus. And the Snow Maiden is the Snow Maiden. I don’t play with historical figures.

    Quote: RUSS
    and you who is Santa Claus is clear Vissarionych


    And do we have here ANTISTALINIST drew? Yes, even in marshal uniform? Cute. Stalin didn’t please you? That saved the country from fascism? Carried out industrialization and collectivization? Created an atomic bomb? Laid the foundation for Soviet cosmonautics.

    Quote: RUSS
    thanks to the fascist developments in rocket science, koi brought the Americans in the 40s from Germany


    We are all lucky that rockets in Germany were made by an aircraft builder. If the Germans came to the bearing body ...
    And into space all mankind was brought by SERGEY PAVLOVICH KOROLYOV. And the Americans with Brown's dead-end approach you know where they stayed. Only the moon was "flown". But this is no longer from the field of the history of cosmonautics and rocket science.
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 7 February 2016 20: 28 New
      -2
      Quote: sergo1914
      And do we have here ANTISTALINIST drew?

      Where do you have it? Are you the owner of the site?
      Quote: sergo1914
      Only the moon was "flown".

      Only to the moon? Of course this is not an achievement, just think about the moon ...
      1. gladcu2
        gladcu2 8 February 2016 20: 53 New
        0
        Russ

        It is doubtful that they flew to the moon. So many unanswered questions left.
  24. SlavaP
    SlavaP 7 February 2016 20: 06 New
    +1
    The question, of course, is not an easy one. On the one hand, the tricolor embodies the return to the primordially Russian values ​​and the "golden age of the Russian State". On the other hand, the red banner over the Reichstag must be erected forever. Maybe let the tricolor remain the state flag, but let the Army get the scarlet cloth. After all, the Russian fleet is sailing under the traditional St. Andrew's flag?
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 7 February 2016 20: 52 New
      -1
      Quote: SlavaP
      let the tricolor remain the national flag, but let the Army receive a scarlet cloth

      Have you read the article? The author attached a photo of the modern red banner of the Armed Forces of Russia.
  25. sergo1914
    sergo1914 7 February 2016 21: 22 New
    +3
    There is a more authentic option.
  26. engineer
    engineer 7 February 2016 21: 31 New
    +2
    the carrying case was not invented by kings. and cooling the combustion chamber with supplied fuel while heating the fuel is Tsiolkovsky. do not exaggerate and downplay the merits of the queen. in the scientific field he has no merits. engines are dull. automation is a dash. general theory of flight - keldysh. and a rocket glider is still a zander. but the queen is a great organizer. convinced Khrushchev of the need for missiles. as a means of nuclear charge delivery. literally knocked out resources for the first human flight. assembled an excellent team of engineers. convinced. that the impossible is possible for many doubters. organized the work of hundreds of factories and institutes for a single purpose. and the academician was given to him deservedly. although there are no scientific achievements.
  27. sergo1914
    sergo1914 7 February 2016 21: 37 New
    0
    Quote: engineer
    the carrying case was not invented by kings. and cooling the combustion chamber with supplied fuel while heating the fuel is Tsiolkovsky. do not exaggerate and downplay the merits of the queen. in the scientific field he has no merits. engines are dull. automation is a dash. general theory of flight - keldysh. and a rocket glider is still a zander. but the queen is a great organizer. convinced Khrushchev of the need for missiles. as a means of nuclear charge delivery. literally knocked out resources for the first human flight. assembled an excellent team of engineers. convinced. that the impossible is possible for many doubters. organized the work of hundreds of factories and institutes for a single purpose. and the academician was given to him deservedly. although there are no scientific achievements.


    Who made the first rocket with a supporting body? Without stringers / frames?
  28. ovod84
    ovod84 8 February 2016 09: 07 New
    0
    The color red is my favorite, and the red flag is my favorite flag. I keep the red tie and the flag at home, as it is a symbol of victory over the enemy. There is no need to recall the camps, etc. you need to be optimistic, our grandfathers tore the throats of enemies behind the red flag and children hid banners from the enemies. A red flag with demand and a hammer is a symbol of greatness in everything.