Military Review

Senseless rate of fire

107
Short история the creation and destruction of the Kalashnikov assault rifle


The founder of the first in Russia automaton Vladimir Grigorievich Fedorov in the final part of his work “The evolution of rifle weapons»(1939) came to the conclusion that further development should lead to the creation of a new type of automatic rifle (KANT) for a cartridge with a smaller overall size and at the same time with improved ballistics.

At the same time, it was noted: “... in our time, for the first time, the theoretical basis for the design of automatic weapons was summed up: there is a fundamental work by Professor Artillery Academy. F. Dzerzhinsky A. A. Blagonravov, with the publication of which a new era began in the matter of a more correct, based on scientific data, development of an auto-weapon.

Based on the teachings of Fedorov-Blagonravov, it can be concluded that the creation of the Kalashnikov AK-47 carbine chambered for millimeters 7,62х39 millimeters (sample 1943 of the year) marked the beginning of an era of transition to small arms like KANT according to the following postulates.

Senseless rate of fire




1. Its appearance is determined by the reloading cycle, which includes the preparation of the firing mechanism (USM) for the re-shot, that is, ensuring the return of the trigger to its original position before the shot with the aim of:

1.1. Fully automated reloading (i.e. reloading), in which it is enough to aim and pull the trigger for a shot to be fired.

1.2. Correction of the historical mistake of Western gunsmiths, who, instead of automating USM, created a weapon for firing bursts of unarmed shots.

1.3. The possibility of conducting intense fire in a series of single shots by continuously pressing the cyclically returned trigger (under the gunner’s responsibility for each off target and for every cartridge consumed).

2. All ballistic properties of small arms are taken into account by the firing power formula, which includes the rate of fire, the energy of the bullet at the target, and the probability of hitting.

3. It is necessary to distinguish between theoretical rate of fire, called the rate of fire, and practical, which takes into account the number of targets hit per unit of time, and indicates the continued relevance of improving this characteristic.

4. The AK-47 self-loading karabiner can be converted into a Kalashnikov self-loading karabiner (SKK), corresponding to the 1 postulate and creating a precedent for replacing all obsolete small arms with incomplete automation of reloading.

However, with the creation of the AK-47, attempts began to improve accuracy and accuracy by reducing the power of fire. The era of the following conceptual errors has arrived:

1. The requirement to increase accuracy and accuracy, the parameters of which cannot be the tactical and technical characteristics of small arms by definition.

2. An attempt to improve accuracy and accuracy by reducing the recoil of the weapon, the effect of which on the likelihood of hitting bullets is eliminated by leading to normal combat. It should be noted that as a result of bringing to a normal battle, the accuracy and accuracy of shooting with single shots from AK-47 and AK-74 correspond to the same standards specified in the Manual on rifle case (NSD).

3. Adoption of automatic weapons, which, according to the NSD, are not subject to normal combat when firing by bursts and do not have relevant standards.

4. Approval of GOST 28653-90 “Small arms. Terms and definitions, which create the appearance of the existence of a weapon with full automation of reloading (7 term), that is, hiding the presence of a manual operation in the operation of the trigger, contrary to the 1 and 1.1 postulates.

5. Introduction to the NSD of the term “combat rate of fire”, which has no meaning and hides the relevance of increasing the practical rate of fire, contrary to the 3 postulate.

6. Decrease in the power of firing from the AK-74 submachine gun, inferior to the AK-47 in speed of fire, range of lethal actions, penetration of a bullet and the value of its ballistic coefficient characterizing the ability to maintain speed and direction of flight.

7. The choice of the AK-74 as a prototype for creating an automatic machine designed by V. V. Zlobin AK-12, in which a device for cutting off a queue of three shots is added to the shortcomings of the AK-74, which complicates the design and accelerates the flow of a portable stock of cartridges.

8. The withdrawal from the warehouses of the Ministry of Defense of automatic machines for the exchange in the ratio of three AK-47 to one AK-12, allegedly surpassing the AK-47 in the accuracy of firing bursts, and in fact inferior to him in terms of the totality of properties that characterize the degree of protection of the soldier.

It should be noted that the choice in favor of the cartridge 5,45х39 with muzzle energy 1328 joules, despite the fact that our cartridge 7,62х39 with muzzle energy 2010 joule created a new model of the American rifle, as it became known from the following message: “CMMG released the MK47 rifle Mutant. This is a completely new platform, which is based on the AR-15 series with increased power and unsurpassed reliability of the legendary AK-47. ”

Obviously, if the postulate 4 is implemented by the creators of Mutant (or another Russian competitor) under the international legal protection of the priority of industrial property, then there will be no place in the arms market for Russian small arms of the CCM type.
Author:
Originator:
http://vpk-news.ru/articles/29007
107 comments
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  1. Aleksandr72
    Aleksandr72 6 February 2016 06: 38
    50
    Corrections of the historical error of Western gunsmiths, who instead of USM automation created weapons for firing bursts of aimless shots.

    - And our domestic weapons designers didn’t create automatic individual small arms according to the same principle. PPD, PPSh with PPS and post-war AK and its modifications - all of them were created for one essentially purpose - to crush the enemy with dense automatic fire, which of course could be aimed, but could not be a priori accurate - dispersion of bullets when firing automatic fire - from nowhere you will not get away. The mathematical principle worked (at least in theory) - if you saturate space with a large number of killer elements (in this case, machine guns), then some of these same killer elements will surely find their target, that is, the enemy. It was the experience of two world wars, the need to achieve fire superiority over the enemy on the fronts of the Great Patriotic War was especially pronounced, and this was also true for small arms. Weapons designers simply had no other experience.
    I have the honor.
    1. dv_generalov
      dv_generalov 6 February 2016 09: 41
      +3
      Totally agree with you.
    2. shasherin.pavel
      shasherin.pavel 6 February 2016 12: 08
      15
      Quote: Aleksandr72
      crush the enemy with dense automatic fire,

      It should be noted here: not with aimed fire. One of the cases in the Second World War can show that it can replace the aimless burning of cartridges: five of our snipers were sent to the right flank of the battalion to cover the place where there was a minimum number of fighters. Advancing into the neutral zone, five snipers noticed the enemy company gathered to attack from a lowland that could not be seen from the line of defense of the battalion. Scattered five snipers opened fire on a German company. After the battle in the lowland, about 140 corpses were counted. It’s better for us to be engaged in shagistics than to actually prepare a shooter. If most of the army could have knocked out 10 points from 80 shots, automatic firing would have already come into question. Comment below not to me, he was already.
      1. homedition
        homedition 6 February 2016 13: 36
        +2
        Do you propose to make the whole army out of snipers? And Th, just as effective. laughing Funny however.
        1. ARES623
          ARES623 6 February 2016 18: 39
          +4
          Quote: homedition
          Do you propose to make the whole army out of snipers? And Th, just as effective. Funny however.

          Not so funny. In the DPRK army, entire sniper regiments have been created. This, of course, is not the kind of snipers that are shown in action movies, training will be weaker, but they can also create coziness for the enemy. This army has the combat experience of war with the American army, though long-standing, but it can also be taken into account. On the other hand, in battles in urban conditions it is better to combine and equip assault units with both sniper weapons in a slightly larger proportion than 1 on the MCB, and with quick-fire weapons to create increased density of fire (grenade and rocket weapons are not considered in this case).
          1. veteran66
            veteran66 7 February 2016 10: 34
            0
            Quote: ARES623
            On the other hand, in battles in urban conditions, assault units are better to combine and equip as sniper weapons in a slightly larger proportion than 1 on the MSV,

            Yes, I remember in 97 I read the magazine "Soldier of Fortune" so there, based on the experience of conducting a database in Chechnya, they seriously considered the issue of tactics of modern combat, suggesting the division of subunits into three armed with one SVD and two PKK (for lack of a full-fledged automatic rifle) the role of an auxiliary weapon.
          2. stalker 75
            stalker 75 28 February 2016 20: 59
            0
            absolutely agree, for three months with constant training, you can learn to shoot 2-3 ammunition
        2. Prisoner
          Prisoner 8 February 2016 17: 06
          +1
          And what's funny? Is not a good, even excellent firepower training for military personnel one of the most important tasks of a commander? smile
      2. 2news
        2news 6 February 2016 21: 14
        -5
        Quote: shasherin.pavel
        After the battle in the lowland, they counted about 140 corpses.

        Quote: shasherin.pavel
        If most of the army could out of 10 shots 80 points

        They were armed with mosquitoes. If they were armed with SCS with optics of corpses, there would be much less. The quality of the weapon also matters.
        1. not main
          not main 6 February 2016 22: 02
          +5
          Quote: 2news
          They were armed with mosquitoes. If they were armed with SCS with optics of corpses, there would be much less. The quality of the weapon also matters.

          History does not tolerate subjunctive! And if they were armed with the SVD?
          1. 2news
            2news 6 February 2016 23: 37
            -2
            Quote: non-primary
            And if they were armed with the SVD?

            That would be exactly the same as with the mosquitoes. Well, maybe a little better. Because the SVD and the mosquito have the same cartridge. And the 7,62x39 mm cartridge does not match him.
            1. paul-muatdeeb
              paul-muatdeeb 7 February 2016 20: 17
              0
              Bullet dispersion standard for SVD at a distance of 100 m -8 cm, for a mosquito - 3,5 cm. The last modernization of a mosquito was carried out in 2004 (OC-22)
              1. Warrior Hamilton
                Warrior Hamilton 8 February 2016 15: 35
                0
                OTs-22 is a BUK submachine gun!
        2. aba
          aba 7 February 2016 09: 31
          +2
          If they were armed with SCS

          Indeed, do you think that the SCS was in service with the Red Army during the Second World War ?! belay
          1. 2news
            2news 7 February 2016 10: 15
            0
            Quote: aba
            that the SCS was in service with the Red Army during the Second World War ?!

            Conditionally, of course.
          2. The comment was deleted.
      3. gross kaput
        gross kaput 6 February 2016 21: 20
        +9
        Quote: shasherin.pavel
        If most of the army could have beaten 10 points out of 80 shots, automatic firing would have already come into question.

        Is there a loner in AK? or you are annoyed by the fact of the availability of the possibility of auth. fire from AK? Duc, as for me, let it be better than not available.
    3. iouris
      iouris 6 February 2016 13: 37
      +6
      PPSh - under the pistol cartridge. These are only melee weapons. Shots from Syria and Africa show that AK rate of fire is used to raise morale and senselessly spend bullets.
      1. ARES623
        ARES623 6 February 2016 18: 41
        +4
        Quote: iouris
        Shots from Syria and Africa show that AK rate of fire is used to raise morale and senselessly spend bullets.

        It is not worth doing analysis based on TV filming. The sample is weak. Some moments of a real battle are simply impossible to capture on camera.
      2. Bayonet
        Bayonet 6 February 2016 20: 17
        +3
        Quote: iouris
        AK rate of fire is used to raise morale and uselessly spend bullets.

        Hot arab guys love to shoot in the air smile
    4. Reddragon
      Reddragon 6 February 2016 13: 49
      15
      No need to water our weapons "village"! AK was made taking into account the war, as a fundamentally new class of weapons, while Europe / USA relied on the previous generation of weapons.
      1. Remy_Argo
        Remy_Argo 6 February 2016 18: 08
        +3
        Motorola has already answered which is better
      2. 2news
        2news 6 February 2016 21: 40
        -8
        Quote: RedDragoN
        AK was made taking into account the war, as a fundamentally new class of weapons

        Aren't you confused by the fact that "a fundamentally new class of weapons" was produced only in 2 countries of the world? And in one, very shortly. And in another, not much longer, and in the 70s, this country had to re-arm itself.
      3. 2news
        2news 6 February 2016 21: 40
        -2
        Quote: RedDragoN
        AK was made taking into account the war, as a fundamentally new class of weapons

        Aren't you confused by the fact that "a fundamentally new class of weapons" was produced only in 2 countries of the world? And in one, very shortly. And in another, not much more, and in the 70s this country had to re-arm itself.
        1. rubidiy
          rubidiy 7 February 2016 15: 32
          +1
          I had to thoroughly rinse my brain to create such highly artistic nonsense. good
    5. South Kazakh
      South Kazakh 6 February 2016 17: 16
      +8
      All right! and in the third and fourth world war, not a single soldier will sit quietly and aim at a target running at 400-0 meters, with the desire to lay this target forever with the first two shots. Especially if all the caliber up to 122 or up to 155 will shoot at this soldier ... The only desire of such a soldier will be to shoot as many bullets at the target as possible at the dancing sight and at least somehow put this target down.
      1. alexey garbuz
        alexey garbuz 7 February 2016 23: 40
        0
        Of course! If there is a truck with cartridges behind!
    6. 2news
      2news 6 February 2016 20: 55
      -22 qualifying.
      Quote: Aleksandr72
      It was the experience of two world wars.

      No, it was not the experience of two wars. The experience of two wars prompted the creation of a weapons system for the squad in the form of a self-loading rifle + light machine gun with TTX LMG on a rifle cartridge. According to this principle, after WW2 the armies of the whole world were armed.
      What happened with the armament of the department in the USSR is called devilry. Or else there are special medical terms. First of all, this concerns the useless secondary cartridge 7,62x39 mm, and then the "weapon" on it. After 1974 I had to re-arm myself.
      1. aiw
        aiw 6 February 2016 21: 40
        15
        In general, starting from WW2, the world’s armies began to switch to assault rifles, they are also automatic rifles, under an intermediate cartridge. After 2MB, this process was completed.

        The power of the rifle cartridge is clearly excessive for an individual weapon (if it is not a sniper rifle), this reduces wearable ammunition, makes weapons heavier and reduces accuracy.
        1. 2news
          2news 6 February 2016 21: 51
          -13 qualifying.
          Quote: aiw
          In general, starting from WW2, the world’s armies began to switch to assault rifles, they are also automatic rifles, under an intermediate cartridge.

          1. Can you give examples of such countries? Except Germany from the time of 2MB and satellite countries of the USSR?
          2. An assault rifle is not a synonym for automatic weapons. So at least GOST claims.
          Quote: aiw
          After 2MB, this process was completed.

          Like this? Where is it?
          Quote: aiw
          The power of the rifle cartridge is clearly excessive for an individual weapon.

          So what? And the power of the Soviet intermediate cartridge 7,62x39 mm is insufficient. What do you choose in this case? The whole world has chosen surplus power. The USSR and the company chose a lack of power. Therefore, in the 70s of the last century, everything had to be urgently corrected.
          1. aiw
            aiw 6 February 2016 22: 28
            +9
            Do you know that 7.62x39 has muzzle energy 1.5 times MORE than 5.45x39? What then was the meaning of rearmament of the 70s?

            As for assault rifles and assault rifles, read Popenker or something
            http://world.guns.ru/assault-r.html

            At the same time, look at where the assault rifles / assault rifles have been adopted.
            1. 2news
              2news 6 February 2016 23: 35
              -8
              Quote: aiw
              Are you aware that the 7.62x39 muzzle energy is 1.5 times MORE than the 5.45x39?

              And do you know that the energy of 5,45x39 mm is spent at times more efficient than 7,62x39 mm? Simply put, there is more efficiency.
              Quote: aiw
              What then was the meaning of rearmament of the 70s?

              It’s an order of magnitude better to arm the SA with weapons than the AKM.
              Quote: aiw
              As for assault rifles and assault rifles, read Popenker or something

              What for?
              Quote: aiw
              At the same time, look at where the assault rifles / assault rifles have been adopted.

              Actually try to understand the difference between assault rifles and assault rifles. Learn at least the Soviet GOST, for starters.
              1. aiw
                aiw 6 February 2016 23: 46
                +5
                "Did you know that 5,45x39 mm energy is consumed several times more efficiently than 7,62x39 mm? Simply put, the efficiency is higher."

                I know. But in each of your posts you introduce new, hitherto unknown, concepts. Here is a mysterious efficiency for the shot appeared ...

                "Arming the SA with weapons is an order of magnitude better than the AKM."

                HB ORDER? According to the most optimistic estimates, the effectiveness of fire from AK-74 is 1.5 times higher than from AKM. Where did you find the order ???

                >> About machine guns and assault rifles read Popenker or something

                > Why?

                What would not be more nonsense about this write?


                > Actually try to understand the difference between submachine guns and assault rifles.

                I know for sure that these are synonyms. If you think that these are fundamentally different things, tell us what the fundamental difference is, despite the fact that the performance characteristics of weapons, ammunition and the tasks they perform are very close.
                1. 2news
                  2news 7 February 2016 00: 41
                  -10 qualifying.
                  Quote: aiw
                  But in each of your posts you introduce new, hitherto unknown, concepts.

                  Well, why should this be my problem?
                  Quote: aiw
                  HB ORDER? According to the most optimistic estimates, the effectiveness of fire from AK-74 is 1.5 times higher than from AKM. Where did you find the order ???

                  Somewhere here on this thread I already wrote about it. Look, there are not many comments here. I described in detail there what AKM actually is, and what AK-74, if in an adult way, i.e. without pink drooling and snot.
                  Quote: aiw
                  What would not be more nonsense about this write?

                  And why did you decide that it was me who wrote the stupid things?
                  Quote: aiw
                  I know for sure that these are synonyms

                  Clear. But now I know for sure that you know nothing. There, in GOST, submachine guns are also called automatic machines. Well, I’m reporting, just in case.
                  PS. I'll add you to the ignored ones, okay? You will be better off. Why do you need to read my nonsense?
    7. The comment was deleted.
    8. 2news
      2news 6 February 2016 21: 18
      0
      Quote: Aleksandr72
      PPD, PPSh with PPS and post-war AK and its modifications - all of them were created for one essentially purpose - to crush the enemy with dense automatic fire

      How can I crush the enemy with fire from the PCA? Yes, and AK can crush the enemy, but more theoretically. Only the RPK-74 can crush the enemy with automatic fire. From DP-27 (you need a lot of DP), RP-46 and PC.
    9. AK64
      AK64 9 February 2016 22: 09
      0
      Alexander. so in fact PPD, PPSh, PPS and were created "according to the best WESTERN samples." It is the concept of the submachine gun that is criticized
    10. The comment was deleted.
  2. Mik13
    Mik13 6 February 2016 07: 09
    45
    Somehow, everything is very ambiguous ...
    1. The requirement to increase accuracy and accuracy, the parameters of which cannot be the tactical and technical characteristics of small arms by definition.
    What exciting news! And what about "accuracy and precision" in this case? Give your definition of these concepts.

    2. An attempt to increase accuracy and accuracy by reducing the recoil of weapons, the effect of which on the probability of bullets being hit is eliminated by leading to a normal battle. It should be noted that as a result of normalizing the battle, the accuracy and accuracy of firing with single shots from the AK-47 and AK-74 comply with the uniform standards specified in the Manuals on Small Arms (NSD).

    This is pointless monstrous nonsense. Serviceable combat ready weapons are by definition reduced to normal combat (as well as complete and even cleaned am ) HOW can we eliminate the impact of recoil on the accuracy of automatic fire leading to a normal battle? Rave.

    5. Introduction to the NSD of the term “combat rate of fire”, which has no meaning and hides the relevance of increasing the practical rate of fire, contrary to the 3 postulate.
    The author must be driven into a trench with a machine gun and forced to shoot at "suddenly appearing and moving targets" (even without changing the combat position and sprinkling sand from above) - and it will immediately become clear what "combat rate of fire" is, how it differs from the rate of fire.

    6. Decline firing power from the AK-74 assault rifle, inferior to the AK-47 in terms of rate of fire, slaughter range, bullet penetration and its ballistic coefficient, which characterizes the ability to maintain flight speed and direction.
    Chewed Truck am SHOOTING POWER sad How to see it? I have already frozen my monitor with rifle oil ...

    Lack of "power of thinking" often leads to the appearance of articles in the content of which the "power of incompetence" is exceeded.
    As for the characteristics of the 5.45x39 cartridge and weapons based on it in comparison with the 7.62x39 - I don’t see any point in discussing this as an addition to this article.

    In general, the article is a minus.
    1. kartalovkolya
      kartalovkolya 6 February 2016 08: 44
      +5
      I agree with you completely, but I would like to ask the author of this nonsense, what did he still want to say? The whole world is fighting with Kalash, and some incomprehensible one (I don't even know what to call it) suggests to "reinvent the wheel" again? !
      1. avt
        avt 6 February 2016 10: 16
        +6
        Quote: kartalovkolya
        I want to ask the author of this nonsense, what did he still want to say?

        Well, probably what if there is no way to rearm everyone with a Berdan rifle, then certainly
        It should be noted that the choice in favor of the cartridge 5,45х39 with muzzle energy 1328 joules, despite the fact that our cartridge 7,62х39 with muzzle energy 2010 joule created a new model of the American rifle, as it became known from the following message: “CMMG released the MK47 rifle Mutant. This is a completely new platform, which is based on the AR-15 series with increased power and unsurpassed reliability of the legendary AK-47. ”
        he will not worry, then at least withdraw the AK in general ... everything and give it to all SVDs. That will be radically corrected, "historical error"wassat
        1.2. Correction of the historical mistake of Western gunsmiths, who, instead of automating USM, created a weapon for firing bursts of unarmed shots.
        1. kartalovkolya
          kartalovkolya 6 February 2016 13: 09
          14
          Understood, the author is a loyal student of General Kuropatkin, who resisted the introduction of machine guns into the Army of the Russian Empire, proceeding from the idea that there will not be enough cartridges in Russia! So urgently "Kalash" to melt down and give everyone stocks from museums like "multuk"! It is necessary to save time, then what is the 21st century, however, and capitalism at the same time!
          1. Throw
            Throw 6 February 2016 17: 26
            +5
            The author, after a tumultuous squander, could not say anything, so he decided to write wassat
      2. shasherin.pavel
        shasherin.pavel 6 February 2016 12: 14
        -8
        Kalash was created specifically for non-professionals, took a kid illiterate from the crowd of years 12-te showed how to clean and shoot, and after five hours you have a combat unit that can shoot in long bursts. Plus its reliability, also designed for the illiterate. Because they and the whole world is at war.
        1. Mik13
          Mik13 6 February 2016 12: 34
          24
          Quote: shasherin.pavel
          Kalash was created specifically for non-professionals, took a kid illiterate from the crowd of years 12-te showed how to clean and shoot, and after five hours you have a combat unit that can shoot in long bursts. Plus its reliability, also designed for the illiterate. Because they and the whole world is at war.

          Yes, where does this nonsense pull about "illiterate boys 12 years old"?
          Of course, the infantryman does not need higher education. But to prepare the shooter for a month at least somehow - you will have to spend every way. An open scope is a pretty demanding thing to have a steady practical skill.
          In addition, the fighter must know at least the table of excesses, be able to use it - otherwise he will not get anywhere on the 200 meters. A normally trained growth target on 400 meters is laid the first time.

          As for reliability for the illiterate ... - but the figurines. AK - the thing is really VERY reliable - but exclusively in comparison with analogues. This very reliability does not mean at all that it is a maintenance-free tool of impact-crushing action with the strength of scrap, which flies without fail on demand.
          A talented monkey is able to ditch AK in one evening as reliably as the M-4. Yes, it is harder to do - but there are no barriers for patriots, as you know ...
          So you need to learn not only to shoot, but also to inspect, serve, lead to a normal battle, in the end.
          And in general - songs about "illiterate 12-year-olds" - this is on the forum "Cosmopolitan" or "Echo of Moscow" - the audience is not the same here.

          So learn military affairs in the present way (c) before writing any ...
          1. 2news
            2news 6 February 2016 22: 00
            -13 qualifying.
            Quote: Mik13
            A normally trained growth target at 400 meters stacks the first time.

            The "trifle" is that a person is not a target. After being hit, wound ballistics begins to operate. And here at the AK at a distance of 400 m everything is very bad. Because its maximum effective range is 300 m. Therefore, it makes sense to hit 400 m, but not very big. You may be lucky to get into a vital organ. But high-quality weapons on the principle of "may be lucky" are not being made.
            Quote: Mik13
            AK - the thing is really VERY reliable

            Do not fantasize. In fact, nothing special. Very reliable AK in comparison with the domestic weapons of those times.
            1. Mik13
              Mik13 6 February 2016 22: 47
              +8
              Quote: 2news
              Quote: Mik13
              AK - the thing is really VERY reliable

              Do not fantasize. In fact, nothing special. Very reliable AK in comparison with the domestic weapons of those times.

              You would then quote the full phrase - and you would not have to answer:
              Quote: Mik13
              AK - the thing is really VERY reliable - but exclusively in comparison with analogues. This very reliability does not mean at all that it is a maintenance-free tool of impact-crushing action with the strength of scrap, which flies without fail on demand.
              A talented monkey is able to ditch AK in one evening as reliably as the M-4. Yes, it is harder to do - but there are no barriers for patriots, as you know ...


              Quote: 2news
              After the hit, wound ballistics begins to act. But here at AK at a range of 400 m everything is very bad. Because its ultimate range of effective destruction of 300 m.

              As for ranges, in the first place I had in mind the AK-74 and the 5.45x39 cartridge. As far as I know, AKM is now available only where there is a need to use PBS.
              But even for AKM on 400 meters, everything is more than worthy:

              600 J - more than enough. in addition, at such speeds the bullet has a bad property to unfold - which somewhat increases the number of consequences for the patient.
              proof http://topwar.ru/11500-modeli-raneniya-pulyami.html

              And the plate:
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. aiw
                  aiw 6 February 2016 23: 40
                  +3
                  "617 J, this is catastrophically small in 7,62 mm with a classic bullet"

                  Mdya ... and how are these grandfathers with PPSh, in which 7.62 mm and 600 J of muzzle energy fought? You read the stories of the Germans about the fact that they got point blank from the PPSh and they shook themselves off and ran on?

                  "For comparison, bullets of a new type (Soviet and American) begin to unfold after overcoming about 8 cm of the ham. For this, they are made small and short."

                  Sadness ... for our 25.5 mm versus 26.8 mm - i.e. In your opinion, exactly these 1.3 mm differences + small caliber give such an effect?
                  1. 2news
                    2news 6 February 2016 23: 59
                    -7
                    [center] [/ center]
                    Quote: aiw
                    Mdya ... and how are these grandfathers with PPSh, in which 7.62 mm and 600 J of muzzle energy fought?

                    Human-waged war. The range of effective PPSh defeat is 30 (thirty) m. Further, the central nervous system was no longer affected. Therefore, it was further how lucky.
                    For normal army weapons, this principle is unacceptable. The submachine gun should be effectively hit from 100-110 m, which means it MUST hit.
                    The consolation here is that the MP40 was also a little fig. Its effective damage range was 60 m. More than the PPSh, but also far from the norm.
                    Hungarians had the best PP. Danuvia 39 (and 43M) were very good. But the Germans did not arm themselves with Danuvia, they did not export weapons on a 9x25 mm Mauser cartridge.
                    Quote: aiw
                    those. In your opinion, exactly these 1.3 mm differences + small caliber give such an effect?

                    No. of course. Weak stabilization of a bullet gives such an effect. A side effect of which are rebounds.
                    1. aiw
                      aiw 7 February 2016 00: 33
                      +8
                      "The range of effective destruction of the PPSh is 30 (thirty) m. Further, the central nervous system was no longer affected."

                      Is the central nervous system the central nervous system? And what, with a penetrating gunshot wound in the chest, a person remains combat ready?

                      "The consolation here is that the MP40 was also crap. Its effective range was 60 meters."

                      All the more wonderful and marvelous ... 9x18 PM was developed taking into account the guaranteed defeat of a person in a pea jacket in any projection at the actual (tens of meters) firing ranges. 9x19 parabellum gives 385 m / s and about 538 J, a bullet of 7.26 g, in your opinion it is 60 m, albeit (although it sounds very implausible). However, 7.62 TT gives 430 m / s, 508 J, a bullet of 5.5 g. According to the laws of ballistics and physics, a TT should have a large effective range - higher initial speed + less caliber - the bullet has less lateral load, more trajectory.

                      Amersky M1 carbine in your opinion what effective range had?
                      1. 2news
                        2news 7 February 2016 00: 57
                        -4
                        Quote: aiw
                        And what, with a penetrating gunshot wound in the chest, a person remains combat ready?

                        It depends on what.
                        Quote: aiw
                        of a guaranteed defeat of a person in a pea jacket

                        No, well, just in pea jacket ... Then, what arguments can there be.
                        Quote: aiw
                        9x19 parabellum gives 385 m / s and about 538 J, 7.26 g bullet,

                        380 m / s, bullet 8,04 g, 580 J.
                        Quote: aiw
                        However, 7.62 TT gives 430 m / s, 508 J, bullet 5.5 g

                        420 m / s, 5,52 g, 487 J.
                        Quote: aiw
                        According to the laws of ballistics and physics, a TT should have a large effective range - higher initial speed + less caliber - the bullet has less lateral load, more trajectory.

                        Enchanting nonsense.
                        1. The final speed on the target matters. A heavy bullet loses it more slowly. These are the laws of physics.
                        2. In fact, the larger the caliber of a classic bullet, the larger its cross-sectional area, the faster its inhibition in the body, the sharper the transmission of energy and the higher the likelihood of a central nervous system damage through pain shock.
                        3. The transverse load, which side to the wound ballistics?
                        4. About the persistence of the trajectory, also Internet tales. The direct shot range for the growth figure from MP40 is approximately 230 m. The same indicator for PPSh (I will not consider TT) is about 250 m, although the DE has noticeably more, 690 J.
                    2. alexey garbuz
                      alexey garbuz 7 February 2016 23: 50
                      +1
                      30 meter PPSh was not able to hit the target? What time! What did O. Bender say about experts, do not remember?
                      1. 3news
                        3news 8 February 2016 00: 08
                        -3
                        Quote: Alexey Garbuz
                        What did O. Bender say about experts, do not remember?

                        And what did he say about those who do not understand what was written in Russian? Type of you.
                        PS. The defeat of the target is not included in the tasks of army weapons. Army weapons are engaged in the destruction of the target. The target is engaged in sports weapons.
              2. 2news
                2news 6 February 2016 23: 40
                -3
                Quote: Mik13
                VERY reliable - but exclusively in comparison with analogues.

                I will lay out the reliability label. Slightly outdated, there is only the ancient M16 (which is still without any A), but the meaning is more or less clear.
                Quote: Mik13
                But even for AKM on 400 meters, everything is more than worthy:

                At 400 meters, AKM looks disgusting. Because it was originally designed for an effective range of 300 m. 617 J, this is disastrously small in caliber 7,62 mm with a classic pool. There is nothing to guess here, for a normal hitting a target, such a pool needs at least 800 J.
                By the way, on your plate the numbers are slightly optimistic. The ACM indicates the distance of 300/400 m bullet energy 617/843 J.
                Quote: Mik13
                600 J - more than enough. in addition, at such speeds the bullet has a bad property to unfold - which somewhat increases the number of consequences for the patient.

                It has. But after overcoming about 25 cm "ham". If you hit the thigh along the length, then the turn and the effect of it will be. In all other cases, there will be no reversal, there will be no time.
                For comparison, bullets of a new type (Soviet and American) begin to unfold after overcoming about 8 cm of the "ham". For this, they are made small and short.
                1. Mik13
                  Mik13 6 February 2016 23: 50
                  +3
                  Quote: 2news
                  Quote: Mik13
                  600 J - more than enough. in addition, at such speeds the bullet has a bad property to unfold - which somewhat increases the number of consequences for the patient.

                  It has. But after overcoming about 25 cm "ham". If you hit the thigh along the length, then the turn and the effect of it will be. In all other cases, there will be no reversal, there will be no time.
                  For comparison, bullets of a new type (Soviet and American) begin to unfold after overcoming about 8 cm of the "ham". For this, they are made small and short.

                  These are approximately 25 see the pool you need to go through to lose excess energy. At low speeds (and at long ranges), the bullet will deploy immediately.
                  But at such ranges, this in any case does not matter - if the opponent is injured and not killed, the more he will fuss. Wounding is better than killing.
                  1. 2news
                    2news 7 February 2016 00: 15
                    -3
                    Quote: Mik13
                    These are approximately 25 see the pool you need to go through to lose excess energy. At low speeds (and at long ranges), the bullet will deploy immediately.

                    No, it won't turn around right away, because it is stable. Those. it takes time to lose stabilization. The bullets of the new sample are weakly stabilized from the very beginning. Therefore, they unfold faster. Almost immediately, because the skin is considered equal to 5 cm "ham".
                    Quote: Mik13
                    if the opponent is injured, but not killed - the more fuss with him. Wounding is better than killing.

                    These are internet tales. All hunting weapons, and army weapons, this is a special case of hunting weapons, is tuned precisely for the instantaneous defeat of the central nervous system of the target. Those. to destroy, not injure. A recovered enemy is no longer needed as a fighter.
                    1. Fat
                      Fat 7 February 2016 19: 12
                      +1
                      Quote: 2news
                      to destroy, not injure. A recovered enemy is no longer needed as a fighter.

                      Stupidity! The wounded on the battlefield is not a warrior but a serious burden for the unit. It is often beneficial to injure an adversary. And It’s not a fact that the wounded man will have time to receive such help in order to fully return to duty
                      1. 3news
                        3news 7 February 2016 19: 27
                        -1
                        Quote: Thick
                        It is often beneficial to injure an adversary.

                        Lord, and what you just do not read on the internet. You will also write that it is often beneficial to injure the bear so that the hunt continues longer. Here are your "revelations", they are about this kind. Someone once launched a "duck" on the Internet, and now it is periodically repeated.
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        2. bunta
          bunta 6 February 2016 13: 58
          +7
          Quote: shasherin.pavel
          took a kid illiterate from the crowd of years 12-te showed how to clean and shoot and after five hours you have a combat unit,


          Obviously, the same can be said about the botanist, veterinarian, lawyer and accountant?
      3. 2news
        2news 6 February 2016 21: 43
        -4
        Quote: kartalovkolya
        The whole world is fighting "Kalash"

        Who told you that? Or did you mean exclusively "the whole beggar world"?
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 6 February 2016 22: 35
          +5
          Quote: 2news
          Quote: kartalovkolya
          The whole world is fighting "Kalash"

          Who told you that? Or did you mean exclusively "the whole beggar world"?

          Here are the words of Colonel Hoffman, a former green beret: "during the war with Vietnam, we went to combat not with the M16, but with the AK-47. In the jungle, your machine gun is better, or rather, it ricochets less." (Borovik. "How I was a soldier in the American army.")
          1. 2news
            2news 6 February 2016 23: 09
            -4
            Quote: Mordvin 3
            about the time of the war with Vietnam

            That M16 has long been gone.
            And the cartridge M193 has long been gone.
            And war does not always happen in the jungle.
      4. KaPToC
        KaPToC 6 February 2016 21: 52
        0
        Dreams of aftorra are indicated in the last words
    2. Alekseev
      Alekseev 6 February 2016 09: 15
      +6
      Quote: Mik13
      In general, the article is a minus.

      That's right!
      A set of strange terms and assumptions.
      But, it seems, the author’s thought boils down to the fact that, say, the 7,62-mm cartridge is more powerful, and the accuracy of firing in bursts is not so important.
      Here he can argue that at the training ground, and even more so, in battle it is necessary hit the target or hit enemy, even though firing single, even short, even long bursts, but simply "a sea of ​​automatic fire" laughing you can’t suppress it.
      According to this, a relatively small return at which bullets in a queue lie more closely is a definite advantage of the 74-mm AK-5,45 assault rifle. Like the high power of the 7,62 mm AK-47 cartridge. It's all about the degree - how much better is this or that parameter?
      In my personal opinion, the differences are not so significant as to cause any changes in the tactics of actions or, better to say, the methods of using weapons by a shooter.
      Here the main role is played by the soldier’s training, and not the modification of the machine gun.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. 2news
        2news 6 February 2016 22: 40
        -2
        Quote: Alekseev
        Like the high power of the 7,62 mm AK-47 cartridge. It's all about the degree - how much better is this or that parameter?

        Do not forget that they have bullets of a different principle of action. Therefore, the AK-74 at lower power has a greater effective destruction range than the AK.
        Quote: Alekseev
        In my personal opinion, the differences are not so significant as to cause any changes in the tactics of actions or, better to say, the methods of using weapons by a shooter.

        You are mistaken. And very much. A bullet of a different operating principle in combination with a significantly better accuracy of AK-74 gives a different type of automatic weapon, an automatic weapon with a range of effective destruction by automatic fire up to 350 m
        The AK boasts a similar performance at a range of 100-150 m. And it can also effectively "work" as a self-loading rifle at a range of up to 300 m.
        Those. in fact, these are completely different types of weapons.
        Thus, the AK-74 can be called a fully automatic assault rifle (fully automatic assault rifle). Unlike AK and StG44, which in fact were self-loading assault rifles (rifles with a range of effective destruction reduced to 300-330 m). And only at a range of 100-150 m did the old assault rifles make sense to use for automatic fire. Those. AK and StG44 is a weakened self-loading + a good submachine gun in one bottle.
        1. aiw
          aiw 6 February 2016 22: 45
          +2
          Please tell us about the "bullet with a different principle of action" - very interesting ...

          As for the effective range of 100-150m fire, AK sounds especially epic. How did he lag behind the PPSh in range, with a more powerful cartridge? Or did the PPSh have how much, 50m?
          1. Mordvin 3
            Mordvin 3 6 February 2016 23: 05
            +2
            Quote: aiw
            Please tell us about the "bullet with a different principle of action" - very interesting

            The 7,63x39 bullet passes 20 centimeters in the body exactly, and then begins to tumble. The 5,45x39 bullet changes its position after 7 see after penetration into the body. So here 2 is new right, although I don’t know exactly what he had in mind.
            1. aiw
              aiw 6 February 2016 23: 13
              +1
              This does not pull on "another principle" even once.
              1. Mordvin 3
                Mordvin 3 6 February 2016 23: 18
                +2
                Quote: aiw
                This does not pull on "another principle" even once.

                Well, let him write. To be honest, I put him the pluses. His opinion is very interesting to me, although it runs counter to mine. hi
              2. 2news
                2news 7 February 2016 00: 31
                0
                Quote: aiw
                This does not pull on "another principle" even once.

                How does it not pull? The bullet intentionally, still in the weapon, twists weakly (at the limit of stabilization), so that, when it hits the target, immediately lose stabilization and begin to turn.
                This is the main feature of the new cartridge invented by the Americans. After all, the point is not even that the area of ​​concussion increases sharply. The fact is that with an increase in the cross-sectional area of ​​the bullet (when the bullet becomes across), it slows down much more sharply than the classic bullets that go without a turn. And the sharper the deceleration, the sharper the energy of the bullet is transferred to the victim. And the sharper the energy is transferred to the victim, the more likely it is to cross the threshold of pain shock. And if you go over it, then kirdyk. Guaranteed and 100%. And without getting into vital organs.
                But if he will not be crossed, then wounds with new bullets are much harder than old ones. I already wrote about the increased area of ​​shell shock. American bullets are also fragmented (this is inherent in their design, by the way, the M855 cartridge with the SS109 bullet, it is Belgian). Those. the effect of several hits at a time is obtained. Those. if he doesn’t kill, then he will be crippled.
                1. aiw
                  aiw 7 February 2016 00: 47
                  +7
                  Oh ... weak stabilization is associated with a small caliber and the corresponding ratio of the moments of inertia of the bullet along the main axes. There are restrictions on the spin, in addition, the rotational speed decreases due to friction against the air. Hence the attempts to raise stabilization by shifting the center of gravity of the bullet back, and yes, this leads to somersaults when it enters the body - but this is not an end in itself, but only a consequence of this design. The root cause was an increase in accuracy though.

                  As for the defeat of the central nervous system, you are immensely pleased. The only way to hit the central nervous system right away is to hit the head. Well, learn some medicine, "pain shock" in itself rarely leads to death - the main cause of death when injured is still blood loss (if vital organs such as the heart are not affected), which leads to shock, certainly a strong pain syndrome can enhance development shock, but is not self-sufficient. Even if the hand is torn off and a tourniquet is immediately applied, the prognosis is favorable (up to sepsis and other bullshit).
                  1. 2news
                    2news 7 February 2016 01: 53
                    -4
                    Quote: aiw
                    but it’s not an end in itself, but only a consequence of such a design.

                    Just the exact opposite.
                    Quote: aiw
                    The root cause was an increase in accuracy though.

                    No.
                    Quote: aiw
                    The only way to hit the central nervous system right away is to hit the head.

                    Well yes. And also in the heart. In fact, to defeat the central nervous system, it is necessary to overcome the threshold of pain shock.
                    Quote: aiw
                    the main cause of death in an injury is still blood loss

                    It seems that all opponents about pain shock are rewritten from one training manual. Not even interesting. Apparently Vika gives it that way.
                    Quote: aiw
                    may enhance the development of shock, but is not self-sufficient

                    Is an. And everyone knows this except you. Even during the Second World War everyone knew. Therefore, the soldiers were supposed to front 100 grams. This was especially strictly monitored before the offensive. The fact is that alcohol raises the threshold of pain shock. Therefore, a soldier with alcohol in the body is more resistant to him than the same, but sober. Those. more likely that he will survive.
                    Therefore, before the attack was given a drink. And not at all from colds and other garbage, as they say in the internet.
                    1. AK64
                      AK64 9 February 2016 23: 11
                      0
                      Therefore, the soldiers were supposed to front 100 grams. This was especially strictly monitored before the offensive. The fact is that alcohol raises the threshold of pain shock. Therefore, a soldier with alcohol in the body is more resistant to him than the same, but sober. Those. more likely that he will survive.
                      Therefore, before the attack was given a drink. And not at all from colds and other garbage, as they say in the internet.


                      I strongly disagree: alcohol primarily corrupts adrenaline.
                      Adrenaline may be good in battle (although this is debatable), but after the battle it is certainly poison.
                      The only normal method to decompose adrenaline in the blood more or less quickly is to roll (100-150 grams of vodka).

                      To the words of the amers "post-war syndrome" (the one that they did not know how to treat after the Desert Storm) is just the result of systematic exposure of the soldier to the action of adrenaline.

                      And the Suvorov "steal but drink", and the "Voroshilov" are from there.
                      1. 3news
                        3news 9 February 2016 23: 52
                        0
                        Quote: AK64
                        I strongly disagree: alcohol primarily corrupts adrenaline.

                        You probably know such a proverb "I would be sober, I would be killed." This is just from this opera. Alcohol increases the pain threshold. Therefore, under equal conditions of injury, a slightly screwy soldier is more likely not to die from damage to the central nervous system.
                        Quote: AK64
                        Adrenaline may be good in battle (although this is debatable), but after the battle it’s certainly poison

                        Adrenaline is another topic.
                        Quote: AK64
                        amers have a "post-war syndrome" (the one that after the Desert Storm they did not know how to treat

                        Alcoholism of war veterans who returned home after the Second World War were also a hefty problem. Someone drank completely and died. Someone has recovered. Alcoholism can be cured. I know such people personally.
                        But the overall (cumulative) effect of the "front-line 100 grams" was most likely positive. I think that some inhibition of the central nervous system from alcohol when injured saved many lives.
                        Quote: AK64
                        and the "Voroshilovs" are from there.

                        No. They gave me a drink before the fightand not after it.
                      2. Loreal
                        Loreal 10 February 2016 10: 55
                        -1
                        to the Germans before, and the Russians do not drink before the battles, this interferes.
                      3. 3news
                        3news 10 February 2016 11: 47
                        +1
                        Quote: Loreal
                        and the Russians don’t drink before the battles, it interferes.

                        And where do such "experts" come from? Do you study history from the films "about war"?
        2. The comment was deleted.
      3. 2news
        2news 7 February 2016 01: 43
        -3
        Quote: aiw
        As for the effective range of 100-150m fire, AK sounds especially epic.

        Do you have problems understanding what is written in Russian? Do not understand what is written? Learn the language. Then you will not write such nonsense.
        Quote: aiw
        Or did the PPSh have how much, 50m?

        The range of effective PPSh lesion was 30 m.
        1. Loreal
          Loreal 10 February 2016 10: 57
          -1
          A short-barrel combat makar and then 50m
          1. 3news
            3news 10 February 2016 11: 46
            +1
            Quote: Loreal
            A short-barrel combat makar and then 50m

            PPC. You, dear, are better off chewing than talking.
          2. 3news
            3news 10 February 2016 11: 46
            +1
            Quote: Loreal
            A short-barrel combat makar and then 50m

            PPC. You, dear, are better off chewing than talking.
      4. The comment was deleted.
  • La-5
    La-5 6 February 2016 07: 15
    0
    The debate about which cartridge for the machine is better - 6.72 or 5.45 has been going on for a long time and they don’t see the end. The solution lies on the surface and already has two samples - 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 Remington cartridges, but here everything rests on the conservatism of the army and the economy, namely, it will be necessary to rearm the troops and somewhere to stockpile stocks of old cartridges.
    1. Igor39
      Igor39 6 February 2016 07: 31
      10
      I think that 5,45 with modern bullets is quite normal ammunition.
    2. 2news
      2news 6 February 2016 23: 07
      -2
      Quote: La-5
      but here it all comes down to the conservatism of the army and the economy

      Well, there will already be tales to tell. 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 Remington are unsuitable for the main armament of the army. Weapons on them can be done for special operations, but no more.
      The best army cartridge today is 5,56 × 45mm NATO (M855). Better not yet invented.
      5,45x39 mm worse because he lacks power. This is due to the problem of balancing Soviet weapons. Well, those were the designer, there's nothing to be done. In order to somehow balance the AK-74, it was necessary to reduce the recoil momentum. To do this, I had to reduce the power of the cartridge, and this entailed a decrease in its caliber and bullet weight. So from the American caliber of 5,56 mm, the Soviet caliber of 5,45 mm was born.
      And to understand why 6.5 Grendel and 6.8 Remington are worse, I recommend studying the wound ballistics of these cartridges. And also why no one is interested in the Chinese cartridge in caliber 5,8 mm.
      1. bunta
        bunta 6 February 2016 23: 58
        +3
        Quote: 2news
        The best army cartridge today is the 5,56 × 45mm NATO (M855).


        M855 aka SS109 has a penetration range of the armor-piercing plate 5mm - 70 (seventy) meters, the Orthodox 7Н24 - 400 (four hundred) meters.
        More or less "new" M855A1 is only twice the size of the M855. A question for a second grader is how many times the domestic cartridge is "more optimal" than the new American one.
      2. 2news
        2news 7 February 2016 02: 09
        -2
        Quote: bunta
        M855 aka SS109

        This is not him. The first is the cartridge. The second is a bullet.
        Quote: bunta
        armor-piercing plate 5mm - 70 (seventy) meters, Orthodox 7N24 - 400 (four hundred) meters.

        You have forgotten about the traditional "rail along". What? Lie, so lie.
        Just in case, I remind you, DE AK-74 1377 J (bullet 3,4 g). DE M16A2 1738 J (bullet 4,02 g). At a distance of 400 m, the residual energy of an AK-74 502 J bullet, at a range of 100 m, an M16A2 1359 J bullet. After that, do you have any "facts"? Come up, do not hesitate.
        Quote: bunta
        Question to a second-grader

        Do you ask yourself questions? However ...
      3. The comment was deleted.
  • Noisy
    Noisy 6 February 2016 07: 56
    +3
    When I see a phrase about the fact that there is an AK-47 in the warehouses of the Ministry of Defense, I want to exclaim - "name, sister, name." Where? Number of military unit BHVVT?
    1. Forest
      Forest 6 February 2016 11: 11
      0
      Just everything that is not AKSU - AK-47.
    2. gross kaput
      gross kaput 6 February 2016 21: 49
      0
      Quote: Noisy
      that there are AK-47 in the warehouses

      It is quite possible that there is - what is not hidden there, if you are jarred by the name AK-47, then it has a right to life - because until August 1949 the AK was called that way, and in 1948 an experimental batch of AK-47 was made for large-scale military tests (obviously not 10 and not a hundred - the count for tests in several districts at once goes to thousands) and serial production began at plant 74 (Izhmash) at the beginning of 1949 six months before the official adoption into service when the numbers were removed from the name of the AK-47 "47". The only question is how many "real" AK-47s can be in warehouses - hardly more than one or two thousand.
  • Gray 43
    Gray 43 6 February 2016 08: 13
    12
    What a strange article .... From a long line of words I caught the meaning, AK is bad, I need to make something else
  • tracer
    tracer 6 February 2016 08: 18
    +7
    The author has not yet taken into account the fact that in a stressful situation there can be no talk of any targeted shooting. And here the fighter's turn comes to the rescue. And if the recoil is also compensated and it goes all the way to the point it’s generally great.
  • taseka
    taseka 6 February 2016 08: 18
    12
    All points in the dispute about the machine will put only war! Those assault rifles with which the soldiers will be are the best !! In the meantime, our AK-12 is good!
    1. No login
      No login 6 February 2016 12: 40
      +2
      In general, someone owns some kind of info about
      Quote: taseka
      our AK-12 is good!
      - what is heard about him? I remember it was thoroughly propelled, but there was no exhaust. You won’t find much in the search engine, either.
      1. bunta
        bunta 6 February 2016 13: 59
        +6
        Quote: No login
        - what is heard about him?

        nothing. So he does not need.
    2. 2news
      2news 7 February 2016 01: 34
      -1
      Quote: taseka
      In the meantime, our AK-12 is good!

      Than? Why is it better than the A-545? From the "right manufacturer"?
  • tracer
    tracer 6 February 2016 08: 32
    -4
    If only the rail with his hinged delt would not get loose. It is painfully hasty and with the rear champagne rises to the top. So even in theory, it cannot be a reliable support for aiming on the Ak12. Hotch wrote that they solved this problem. Any connection under such vibrational loads will be bumped. What immediately skpjetsch np dispersion of bullets.
    1. King, just king
      King, just king 6 February 2016 15: 13
      +5
      Such a body kit on the AK-12 on the Picatinny rails as shown above is not needed by a simple motorized rifle - it is too difficult and with constant shooting, yes, it’s loose-lost.
      And to solve the tasks of front-line reconnaissance, the AKS-74U is quite enough and a pistol with PBS for each soldier in the group is very desirable. For two years I ran with the AKS, and in my own skin I experienced what extra grams are, plus another machine with a regular Stechkin.
      And in my opinion, such sophisticated vehicles are needed by assault groups, but not by linear infantry and reconnaissance units. Anyway, the reconnaissance group discovered will be destroyed within 12 hours, even with AK-XNUMX, even with AKS-U.

      Add about a gun for army intelligence. It is desirable that a smaller thread
      Makarova, necessarily with PBS, and shooting very accurately within 50 m, - no, I’ll change it to 30 m, it’s too difficult to 50 small for PBS.
      1. PKK
        PKK 6 February 2016 18: 57
        +3
        Dear Tsar, I’m the same way, the Tsar, if you believe the people. So the intelligence hooks on the PKK, PBS and, according to them, from 150 m, the sentries are removed at a time. I would still saw off the legs for ease. Without legs, the machine gun turns and turns automatic, easy. You get used to it quickly.
        1. King, just king
          King, just king 6 February 2016 19: 43
          +5
          Dear PKK! From the experience of my own skin. We weren’t able to participate in the hostilities, they didn’t leave us in Afghanistan, (87-89), but they wrinkled our hair in the tail and mane with different contours. PKK is a good thing, but where is he in ... u or .... th in intelligence? It is not to liquidation, but to intelligence. If they found, then even carry a tank behind you, according to the experience of the Second World War and others (as our fathers-commanders told us) they will destroy it within a day if you do not have time before yours.
          After all, the carcass is dear, an automatic machine, Stechkin, grenades, a flask, a backpack with a ghost, a knife, shops, berets, a radio station (recall 87-89), in turn, every little thing - where else is the PKK?
          A sentinel with 150? Probably at training firing. I was taught the sentry to shoot either by direct contact with a knife, or by shooting at point blank range - no stupid asphyxiating, tricks and other CINEMA nonsense. What if the watchmaker Bruce Lee? What techniques ... From 150 meters there are so many nuances and dangers that can’t be listed.
        2. foxic
          foxic 6 February 2016 21: 06
          +2
          add .... One day I had a little poyuzat RPK-74. To say that I liked it was to say nothing, it was a shock on the verge of euphoria .... in automatic fire mode, with hands, without emphasis it DOES NOT LEAD AND DOES NOT TURN UP ... pampering, picked up a fresh target and landed the store with 100m in three bursts - almost all the holes under the hat fit.
  • cap
    cap 6 February 2016 08: 37
    +5
    Quote: Aleksandr72
    The mathematical principle worked (at least in theory) - if you saturate space with a large number of killer elements (in this case, machine guns), then some of these same killer elements will surely find their target, that is, the enemy. It was the experience of two world wars, the need to achieve fire superiority over the enemy on the fronts of the Great Patriotic War was especially pronounced, and this was also true for small arms. Weapons designers simply had no other experience.


    This is a correct remark, it is still relevant now, it can be seen from the footage from Syria when "aimed fire" is being conducted through the parapet. laughing .There are shooting frames holding the machine gun overhead, due to cover.
  • papa-billy
    papa-billy 6 February 2016 08: 39
    0
    Gee-gee, shooting spear - this is the pinnacle of arms thought and progress. Everything else is from the evil one)))
  • 0895055116
    0895055116 6 February 2016 08: 45
    +5
    Once again, the rule "WHAT WE HAVE - DO NOT STORE, AND LOSE - WE CRY" is triggered! I am not a military man by education, but I think the following - for SPECIAL OPERATIONS, for SPECIAL UNITS, a SPECIAL WEAPON should be created, and for the MAIN army - its own, UNIVERSAL weapon. The AK variants currently in service are the UNIVERSAL weapon of the MAIN part of the army, a very RELIABLE weapon. Do I need to create something NEW? Search, try to do NEW NECESSARY! But, in my opinion, it is necessary to approach VERY CAREFULLY with the option of REPLACING THE UNIVERSAL weapon! Development, testing, improvement, again testing and so many times before STARTING REPLACEMENT OF UNIVERSAL weapons of the BASIC part of the army. A SPECIAL DIVISION, you ask? And the special forces should, first of all, in the classroom, in the exercises, RUN IN ALL NEW WEAPONS and give their CONCLUSION about the possibility of further use of this weapon, including in the main part of the army. Probably I "invented the bicycle", but let's not forget the fate of quite a few types of weapons in the WEST, which with fanfare replaced the old tested and reliable weapons, and then turned out to be ABSOLUTELY UNSUITABLE FOR USE IN COMBAT CONDITIONS, there are many examples of this.
  • IrOqUoIs
    IrOqUoIs 6 February 2016 09: 04
    +3
    Quote: 0895055116
    Once again, the rule "WHAT WE HAVE - DO NOT STORE, AND LOSE - WE CRY" is triggered! I am not a military man by education, but I think the following - for SPECIAL OPERATIONS, for SPECIAL UNITS, a SPECIAL WEAPON should be created, and for the MAIN army - its own, UNIVERSAL weapon. The AK variants currently in service are the UNIVERSAL weapon of the MAIN part of the army, a very RELIABLE weapon. Do I need to create something NEW? Search, try to do NEW NECESSARY! But, in my opinion, it is necessary to approach VERY CAREFULLY with the option of REPLACING THE UNIVERSAL weapon! Development, testing, improvement, again testing and so many times before STARTING REPLACEMENT OF UNIVERSAL weapons of the BASIC part of the army. A SPECIAL DIVISION, you ask? And the special forces should, first of all, in the classroom, in the exercises, RUN IN ALL NEW WEAPONS and give their CONCLUSION about the possibility of further use of this weapon, including in the main part of the army. Probably I "invented the bicycle", but let's not forget the fate of quite a few types of weapons in the WEST, which with fanfare replaced the old tested and reliable weapons, and then turned out to be ABSOLUTELY UNSUITABLE FOR USE IN COMBAT CONDITIONS, there are many examples of this.

    This is exactly what happens in our Kalashnikov group at Izhmash and Mezh.Factory. All new products are tested by Krechet specialists at the Ministry of Internal Affairs of Udmurtia. That is how the AN-94 was tested. I remember they said, when there were two Chechen campaigns, that everyone there envied them. Because such a weapon was only with them.
    P.S. If the memory of the AN-94 just doesn’t go to me in small batches to the special forces.
    1. shasherin.pavel
      shasherin.pavel 6 February 2016 12: 29
      +2
      Quote: IrOqUoIs
      everyone envied there

      Human nature has such an effect, if all have gray machine guns, and three in the battalion have orange ones, then everyone will envy them. The fighter that got the Yak-7 wrote the same way, everyone envies him ... But it was the Yak-7 that did not receive a continuation, and the Yak-1 turned into the Yak-1 (b), and then into the Yak-9, which cannot be distinguished without skill from the Yak-3. At first, the tankers envied those who were on "Shermans" for their cleanliness and soft seats, a softer move ... But only at the beginning.
      1. Chtononibrator
        Chtononibrator 6 February 2016 15: 12
        +4
        Quote: shasherin.pavel
        But it was the Yak-7 that did not receive a continuation

        Come on already. Yak-9 is its continuation.
    2. 2news
      2news 7 February 2016 01: 31
      0
      Quote: IrOqUoIs
      Because such a weapon was only with them.

      In my opinion, the A-545 is better.
  • Rurikovich
    Rurikovich 6 February 2016 09: 16
    +5
    An excellent Kalashnikov assault rifle! good
    This has already been proved both by time and by the recognition of absolutely everyone - both enemies and allies. And articles like this are written either by order or for the self-affirmation of the authors themselves. Pour from empty to empty while they see themselves as almost the most authoritative analysts and designers. The parameters sucked up from a finger ... Like a fighter sits in a trench (behind a wall, pine, armor) and thinks about the characteristics of the machine and the rate of fire with cartridge power! laughing A sniper rifle accurately shoots, and even then not always if in the hands of a crooked one! And owning AK, you can hit manpower at acceptable distances, and create fire density and you can use a lot more like soldier The main thing is that everyone is happy with it, but authors like this try to convince of something else. Nonsense. When they start to refuse it everywhere, then I will believe that something is out of order in the Danish kingdom. And any person who took part in the battle will say that there is no more reliable AK! Because it is precisely such characteristics as simplicity, reliability, unpretentiousness that are put in the first place when serving in the army. Therefore, everyone who is not lazy runs around with Kalashnikovs and not with M-16s, FA MACs, etc. After all, a screwdriver is not needed for servicing here lol
    Personally, my opinion hi
    1. 2news
      2news 7 February 2016 01: 26
      -1
      Quote: Rurikovich
      This has already been proved both by time and by the recognition of absolutely everyone - both enemies and allies

      And what, everyone has already adopted the Kalashnikovs? Have you mastered their production and are happy?
      Quote: Rurikovich
      Therefore, everyone who is not lazy runs with Kalashnikovs and not with M-16s, FA MACs, etc.

      Everyone who is not lazy has no money for the M16. Here and run with the fact that it is cheaper.
      Quote: Rurikovich
      can be used as much as

      What, and tells a bedtime story?
  • Fotoceva62
    Fotoceva62 6 February 2016 09: 18
    +9
    The graph shows the probability of hitting the target 80x45cm from various modifications of Kalash
    A strange set of words, especially pleased with the postulate of accuracy and accuracy. The author is apparently a fan of 7,62x39. Low-pulse modern cartridges were adopted due to excess power of 7,62x39 and allowed to increase: flatness, accuracy, wearable ammunition. At real distances in modern combat, they give a tangible increase in efficiency. Here’s what they write on shooting sites “... 7.62x39 is a great didactic example of a monstrous absolutely mortar trajectory, extremely sensitive to the wind - a magical combination of low muzzle velocity and low BC ...” This dispute is eternal and meaningful. Each case has its own tool.
    1. 2news
      2news 7 February 2016 01: 14
      0
      Quote: Fotoceva62
      due to excess power 7,62x39

      In fact, the cartridge 7.62x39 mm lack of power. And because of this, the reduced range of effective defeat.
      And on the "probability of defeat" see the plate.
      1. Fotoceva62
        Fotoceva62 7 February 2016 09: 02
        +1
        In combined arms combat, shooting at 800 meters seems weak to me, for this there is a machine gun and a sniper. I can imagine shooting at 500 meters, and even then for an ordinary infantryman this is pampering.
        The main 7Н10 pierces 100 mm 16 mm St.3,7N24 at a distance of 350 m pierces 5 mm armored steel brand 2p. In my opinion, more than enough, in general, at the distances voiced by you, without even breaking through the defense, the target will be disabled, which is enough.
        Something like that, with respect. And in general, this argument is meaningless in my opinion.
        1. 2news
          2news 7 February 2016 10: 18
          -1
          Quote: Fotoceva62
          I can imagine shooting at 500 meters

          400 m are normal.
          Quote: Fotoceva62
          punches 100 m 16 mm St.3,7N24 at a distance of 350 m punches 5 mm 2p armored steel

          There are special armor-piercing cartridges for breaking through armor.
  • Zaurbek
    Zaurbek 6 February 2016 09: 38
    -5
    For ogular users, the machine should be delivered with a set of trunks for different calibers-7,62x39 and 5,45z39 with the possibility of a simple barrel change.
    1. Cympak
      Cympak 6 February 2016 13: 12
      +5
      The regular army needs a single caliber. This simplifies logistics and training. Replaceable caliber is needed for special forces. When you walk behind the front line with your "rifle" fitted and hung around, you change its caliber to the caliber used on enemy territory. You replenish the BC with trophies, but you fight with your "technique".
      1. gross kaput
        gross kaput 6 February 2016 21: 53
        +1
        Quote: Cympak
        You replenish the BC with trophies, but you fight with your "technique".

        Are you serious? Do you seriously believe that special forces fighter i.e. is a professional so naive that he thinks that if necessary, he will easily get hold of ammunition from the enemy?
      2. 2news
        2news 7 February 2016 01: 10
        -1
        Quote: Cympak
        The regular army needs a single caliber.

        It will not work in any case. Today, the caliber system has developed more or less normal: 5,45, 7,62, 8,8 (commonly called 9 mm) mm. Moreover, in the latter case, I mean the cartridge of Steam, and not in any case not PM. The Americans, of course. the line is more correct, because they have a 5,56 mm cartridge and a weapon on it. But 5,45 mm is not inferior to him not very globally. God grant to domestic designers, we still use its full potential.
    2. Lekov L
      Lekov L 6 February 2016 13: 14
      +4
      It is quite difficult technologically and constructively, as well as a replacement, then a zeroing ..
      Regular users should probably have the necessary and sufficient number of various weapons to accomplish the corresponding task - in this I absolutely agree with you ..
      (and not only 5,45, 7,62, but also 9, and if necessary, 12.7 and 14,5)
      Respectfully..
      1. aiw
        aiw 6 February 2016 21: 48
        -2
        In fact, the adversaries have been doing this for a long time, and it is for special forces, and they do without shooting (they do not shoot a machine gun after replacing the barrel). Their modularity is all, but for now, alas, not ours ...
  • Robert Nevsky
    Robert Nevsky 6 February 2016 09: 41
    -5
    Good article!
  • tolancop
    tolancop 6 February 2016 10: 15
    +7
    Something a lot of criticism of Kalash has recently appeared. One can bring a lot of objections, with a theoretical justification for the wrongdoing of the critics.
    And for me, the only argument would be enough - CIRCULATION !!! The system has been produced (produced) TENS of years in MANY countries (USSR, Hungary, Romania, China, East Germany !!!! - this is only a social camp) MILLION circulations. After that, to say that AK is bad - utter impudence.
    Maybe the critics will give a sample of GOOD weapons that have at least close popularity ...
    1. Chtononibrator
      Chtononibrator 6 February 2016 12: 55
      +3
      Quote: tolancop
      After that, to say that AK is bad - utter impudence.

      The problem is rather that every design has its own term. It is becoming obsolete both technically and morally. The three-line is also in circulation and popularity, but they realized the need for its replacement after the civil one.
    2. aiw
      aiw 6 February 2016 23: 03
      -1
      M-16 and its clones are even more common (taking into account the civilian market, EMNIP circulations were even larger).
  • Forest
    Forest 6 February 2016 11: 15
    +2
    Judging by the dangers of automatic fire (in games of course, suppression is not conducted) and 5,45x39 - the army needs to be supplied with SCS.
  • RomanS
    RomanS 6 February 2016 11: 55
    +4
    The experience of military conflicts has shown that any available weapons are used in clashes. Therefore, the academic calculations in the analysis of small arms are very arbitrary. It is important to be able to use and maintain the weapons that are in the hands.
  • boroda64
    boroda64 6 February 2016 12: 53
    +1
    ....
    - poppy
    - like better ...
    - but the computer based on - aybim became widespread ..
  • Viktortopwar
    Viktortopwar 6 February 2016 12: 55
    0
    I’m embarrassed to ask why AK and AKM are often called the AK-47. THIS IS Nonsense. I consider this a pin ... affliction.
    1. Chtononibrator
      Chtononibrator 6 February 2016 13: 50
      +1
      Amer intelligence bought for what ... Before being adopted by the AK, it appeared on the Soviet docks as the AK-47. That is the whole answer.
    2. Viktortopwar
      Viktortopwar 6 February 2016 16: 34
      +2
      The minus was probably directed by those who firmly believe that the AK-47 was in service with us. All of the Amer’s channels are to blame, for example, Discovery ...
      1. gross kaput
        gross kaput 7 February 2016 17: 15
        +1
        Quote: Viktortopwar
        Minus apparently instructed by those

        No, apparently, those who know that until June 49 AK was officially called AK-47, and then in many secondary documents it continued to be written AK-47 - and strangely enough, it didn’t bother anyone. laughing We open, for example, the "Manual on the material part and operation of the T62 tank" printed already in 1968 in the military publishing house of the USSR Ministry of Defense - and oh, horror! and American spies penetrated with their EK foti seven tongue
  • Voice of the Mind
    Voice of the Mind 6 February 2016 13: 15
    +2
    Corrections of the historical error of Western gunsmiths, who instead of USM automation created weapons for firing bursts of aimless shots.

    The requirement to increase accuracy and accuracy, the parameters of which cannot be the tactical and technical characteristics of small arms by definition.

    Introduction to the NSD of the term “combat rate of fire”, which has no meaning and hides the relevance of increasing the practical rate of fire

    AK-12, in which to the disadvantages of the AK-74 a device was added for cutting off a burst of three shots, complicating the design and accelerating the consumption of portable ammunition.

    what nonsense?
    And what is "firing power"? second volley in kilojoules? Let's introduce the concept and start counting all weapons according to this principle?
  • Cympak
    Cympak 6 February 2016 13: 29
    +3
    The author’s idea is old: automatic weapons are the weapons of the police, and in the army, machine guns need to be replaced with semi-automatic rifles with a powerful cartridge.
    Someone here similarly promoted the need to revive battleships.
    1. iouris
      iouris 6 February 2016 13: 41
      +2
      In Chechnya, militants worked in tactical groups: sniper, machine gunner, grenade launcher, machine gunner. This is the solution to the problem.
      1. Chtononibrator
        Chtononibrator 6 February 2016 13: 57
        +6
        Quote: iouris
        sniper, machine gunner, grenade launcher, machine gunner.

        All this is in the usual department.
        1. iouris
          iouris 9 February 2016 01: 53
          0
          I meant tactics. Because there is no perfect weapon, and the right combination of different weapons is a combat complex. The effectiveness of the complex is higher than the total efficiency of the elements that make up it.
    2. Maegrom
      Maegrom 7 February 2016 03: 15
      -2
      I even checked right after reading, just in case, whether Oleg Kaptsov was the author. This analogy has not occurred to you alone
  • alpamys
    alpamys 6 February 2016 13: 36
    +6
    Gentlemen, who knows which other systems use shutter rotation to close, like AK? interested in who the very first used it, while he found the Lewis machine gun in 1916.

    1. bunta
      bunta 6 February 2016 14: 09
      +4
      Quote: alpamys
      what other systems use shutter rotation to close,

      locking. Mondragon rifle 1908 year.
      1. alpamys
        alpamys 6 February 2016 14: 17
        +1
        Quote: bunta
        Quote: alpamys
        what other systems use shutter rotation to close,

        locking. Mondragon rifle 1908 year.


        forgot to add automatic systems
        1. bunta
          bunta 6 February 2016 14: 43
          +4
          Mexican automatic rifle Mondragon, removal of powder gases and a rotary shutter. 1908 year.
    2. Chtononibrator
      Chtononibrator 6 February 2016 14: 10
      +1
      Manlycher self-loading arr. 1900
    3. gross kaput
      gross kaput 6 February 2016 22: 06
      0
      Quote: alpamys
      first applied it

      Google patent to help you. Well, Mondragon was the very first self-loading rotary shutter that was made in metal; the first samples were made in metal in the mid-90s of the 19th century.
  • Sedoy
    Sedoy 6 February 2016 14: 01
    +4
    Quote: Aleksandr72
    if you saturate space with a large number of killer elements (in this case, machine-gun bullets), then some of these same killer elements will surely find their target, that is, the enemy.


    well yes that's why

    "in World War II, an Allied soldier spent 25000 rounds of ammunition on one enemy killed.
    In Korea, UN troops have already spent 50000 shots per enemy.
    In Vietnam, 200000 rounds of rounds were spent on one enemy soldier, thanks to the appearance of the M16 "

    :)
    1. Chtononibrator
      Chtononibrator 6 February 2016 14: 19
      +1
      And there is. Postrelyalovo in the "other side" of the average soldier, either with AK or with M16. Some stubbornly break their spears comparing the vacuum-theoretical accuracy of these systems.
  • Whowhy
    Whowhy 6 February 2016 15: 21
    10
    What the author of the article wanted to convey, he did not understand. request
    According to statistics, during the "Chechen wars" losses in shootings from small arms on both sides accounted for less than 30%, the rest - on grenade launchers.
    There was a case when a kamaz with spirits slipped through a checkpoint at full speed. On both sides there was such a firing ... Then they found a kamaz nearby, in the steppe, - the fuel ran out. We counted the hits - 6 pieces, no traces of blood ... Well, of course, the spirits didn’t hit anyone - KAMAZ on the primer, at full speed, jumps a lot ...
    It is necessary, of course, to support our defense industry with orders for new machine guns, but maybe, nevertheless, someone will also competently compete with military training finally ??? what
    1. PKK
      PKK 6 February 2016 19: 15
      0
      Throughout Ukraine, the militias rode on a BMW, at a speed of 200 km / h, almost to Kiev. With a reserve of "Flies" and Bumblebees. There were no shooters hitting them. Yes, everyone thinks that they can shoot. In practice, this is not so.
  • kova_2361
    kova_2361 6 February 2016 16: 51
    -2
    An interesting opinion of the author, many of his conclusions are perceived by me with understanding.
  • serge siberian
    serge siberian 6 February 2016 17: 05
    +2
    "Learning military science! In a real way!" - I don't remember whose words, but my opinion is relevant these days. I myself went to the shooting range once a week with a regular AKS74U. "Machine gun rake" 300-350m from the first stage of TWO rounds I lay down no more than 3 seconds even in a gas mask even without it. The close 150-200 m is similar, it was troublesome from the far 450-500 from the second and then if it is the first in a row. I am not describing for the sake of a word of mouth, but for the sake of studying soldiers and officers. Let the trunks to red at the shooting range, for that they will know what to fight with, well, aiming points, etc. study. a turn of three rounds is the same as from five to ten. only the first maximum is the second at the target, the rest are "for the density of fire."
    1. PKK
      PKK 6 February 2016 19: 21
      -1
      The soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, have already learned to get from a machine gun at 700-800 m. They work like a sniper. So, our soldiers need to learn the same thing and work confidently.
      1. Cympak
        Cympak 7 February 2016 09: 40
        0
        Using optics, a powerful cartridge and a stationary position
      2. 4news
        4news 12 February 2016 17: 00
        0
        Quote: PKK
        The soldiers of the Armed Forces of Ukraine, have already learned to get from a machine gun at 700-800 m. They work as a sniper.

        For this we need:
        1. The machine gun on the cartridge 7,62x54 mm R.
        2. The optical sight.
        3. One cartridge in the chamber.
        Conclusion: It is easier to use SVD.
  • Grigorievich
    Grigorievich 6 February 2016 17: 37
    +5
    Quote: whowhy
    but maybe it’s still military training that someone competently competes in finally

    An American soldier, before being sent to Vietnam, shot during the preparation of 1400 cartridges. And how many of us shoot?
    1. foxic
      foxic 7 February 2016 09: 04
      0
      Grigorievich, don’t worry, when not for show, we normally shoot .... about two weeks before the train, who didn’t have the guns given out and fastened, were taken out to the shooting range in a week, put out cartridges with cartridges, appointed senior officers on the firing lines and forward ..... rub against your machine. When tired of shooting at fixed targets and large bottles, I went to the target field with lifts .... the fighter on the tower lifts, I lay down, two standard directions, six targets, I have three shops .... they slowly lay down, slowly rise, and so on five circles on them.


      now men on banks do not take me to shoot
  • PKK
    PKK 6 February 2016 18: 42
    +2
    Quote: iouris
    PPSh - under the pistol cartridge. These are only melee weapons. Shots from Syria and Africa show that AK rate of fire is used to raise morale and senselessly spend bullets.

    When you take cover, jump, jump, crawl under fire, while shooting at the target, I don’t think that such shooting can be called a waste of bullets. This is normal work. Shooting is naturally solitary. Of course, it raises the spirit, but this is not the main property of shooting. AKM, what you need, and the machine gun on its base is generally beautiful. The critics are clearly not in the subject.
    1. foxic
      foxic 7 February 2016 09: 14
      +4
      There is one more reason to shoot a burst almost without aiming in the direction of the nearest enemy - to prevent him from aiming a shot at his beloved carcass .... let him hold his ears, in a hurry, scared of rebounds and a crumbling brick in the face .... and the sniper will put an end when necessary.
    2. 4news
      4news 12 February 2016 16: 47
      0
      Quote: PKK
      this is not the main property of shooting. AKM, what you need, and the machine gun on its base is generally beautiful.

      What are the properties of shooting from AKM, if not secret?
      What place is beautiful, if not secret?
      What about the USSR Ministry of Defense in the 70s? Pests? Stupid people?
  • Sasha75
    Sasha75 6 February 2016 19: 47
    +6
    You can’t compare different wars, just like weapons for one type of war, it’s not suitable for another, I’ll say one thing even a PCA with a collimator and a focal point is not a thing about any AK. There was a 200m sniper at a shooting range and a shooter with PPSh a sniper can’t pick up cartridges brought a bunch of different ones and tries to hit the target can’t shoot a PPSh shooter targets 50-70m he laughs at a sniper and he picks up a PPSh on higher and in line it puts his target he saw, laughed for a long time the conclusion that for a 100 thousand rifle, if his hands from one place does not help.
  • 2news
    2news 6 February 2016 20: 48
    +1
    Quote: Yuri Polyakov
    Based on the teachings of Fedorov-Blagonravov

    I'm just killed. Where did you get such "sansei" from?
    Quote: Yuri Polyakov
    6. Decrease in the power of firing from the AK-74 submachine gun, inferior to the AK-47 in speed of fire, range of lethal actions, penetration of a bullet and the value of its ballistic coefficient characterizing the ability to maintain speed and direction of flight.

    In fact, everything is exactly the opposite. The AK-74 is generally much more effective than the AK. In fact, these are generally different weapons. Those. weapons of different subclasses.
    Quote: Yuri Polyakov
    under our cartridge 7,62x39 with a muzzle energy of 2010 joules a new model of the American rifle was created

    So what? This is the market. There is a demand among athletes and hunters, there will be a supply. Of course, no one thought to adopt this product for the US Army.
    Quote: Yuri Polyakov
    “CMMG launched the MK47 Mutant rifle. This is a completely new platform, which is based on the AR-15 series with increased power and unsurpassed reliability of the legendary AK-47 "

    Plain advertising. Everyone wants to sell their products and eat bread and butter.
    Quote: Yuri Polyakov
    then there will be no place on the arms market for Russian small arms like the CCM.

    So on the international market of army weapons and so there will be no products under the cartridge 7,62x39 mm. As for the markets for hunting and sports weapons, it will be seen there. What is the author so excited that?
  • gross kaput
    gross kaput 6 February 2016 21: 19
    +2
    "Dad, what was that ?!" Ts. Russian folk anecdote.
    I don't even want to disassemble so much a crazy article, The only sensible idea is that the AK-12 is on. nobody needs it, it was enough to release a body kit under the 74th. I do not know in what area the author is an "engineer", but clearly not in the shooter.
  • gross kaput
    gross kaput 6 February 2016 22: 20
    +1
    In general, it is interesting to read the comments like this - almost everyone, including the author of the article, had a whole layer of history from 1944 to 1954. - everything is simplified according to the principle of PPSh and Mosinka became AK, everything is much more interesting until 1954. The doctrine was somewhat different - the armament of the infantry squad was to consist / consisted of THREE AK samples to replace the PPSh, SKS to replace Mosinka / SVT and RPD to replace DP-27, until 1952 no one considered the AK as a single model in the infantry squad, there should have been equal parts of AKs that allowed to "flood" the enemy and the SCS for accurate single shooting. But in 1952, MTK transferred its "automatic carbine" for testing to NISPVO - an attempt to combine both AK and SKS in one sample - the barrel was enlarged by 70 mm and equal to the length of the SKS barrel, the gas outlet was redesigned - for the possibility of loading from clips, the work was redone for short piston stroke - as on SKS, the box cover and the bolt carrier were redesigned accordingly - the carbine failed the test, primarily in terms of reliability - the decrease in the weight of the frame and, as a consequence, the weight ratio of the frame mass / attached bolt mass, had a negative impact. But despite the failure, the sample itself made the military think about the need for the SCS in the weapon system, in the end they understood and realized that the AK is quite capable of solving the tasks of both an assault rifle and a carbine, and this was the beginning of the end of the SCS in the troops.
  • Vovanya
    Vovanya 6 February 2016 22: 57
    0
    Quote: Chtononibrator
    The problem is rather that every design has its own term. It is becoming obsolete both technically and morally.

    As they say - "he is smart, he is smart, but he has some kind of bad mind" (C) (meaning the author of the article). I agree with Chtononagibator that a "change of concept" is required in order to switch to a different technological order, but the author of the article proposes a solution from the "Stone Age". Many are thinking about the problem of future weapons, here is one of the options - http://www1.fips.ru/Archive/PAT/2015FULL/2015.04.27/DOC/RUNWC1/000/000/002/549/5


    99 / document.pdf (no spaces).
  • Navy7981
    Navy7981 6 February 2016 23: 45
    0
    I don’t quite understand the cut-off in three shots. if you are trained, even in automatic mode, you can shoot single or two shots.
    1. King, just king
      King, just king 7 February 2016 00: 44
      0
      I didn’t try two by two, but single-handedly in auto mode, if I’ve been at the shooting range for a month and a half or two months without problems. More in training.
      1. avg avg
        avg avg 7 February 2016 08: 29
        +1
        On the contrary, we were forbidden to shoot singles in auto mode. For, I quote, "... turn is at least two cartridges, boobies!"
        1. King, just king
          King, just king 7 February 2016 09: 39
          0
          Yes, in general, we did not bother with single in auto mode. So, show off. with a relative abundance of cartridges. But the base for this can be brought - as a sighting.
          And the turn of 2 - you need to think very much, however. Fingers need the sensitivity of a pianist.
  • aws4
    aws4 7 February 2016 00: 36
    +2
    article minus
  • avg avg
    avg avg 7 February 2016 08: 27
    +2
    A crazy article. And what kind of AK-47? Where did this expert come from?
  • Ded_Mazay
    Ded_Mazay 7 February 2016 13: 03
    +1
    Do not read this nonsense, do not waste your time, they will not return it to you!
  • Recoil
    Recoil 8 February 2016 17: 27
    0
    Just some kind of nonsense.
    For a hundred years, amateurs have been developing automatic weapons.
    The author came and convicted everyone.
    He knows how it should be ...
    He will ask from every negligent shooter.
    For each cartridge that goes into milk.

    Is there generally moderation? Or freedom - to graphomaniacs?
  • Mit_off
    Mit_off 9 February 2016 15: 44
    0
    Crazy article. Need power? Buy a tractor. A decrease in caliber is associated with an increase in the accuracy and range of a direct shot. Compare the accuracy and range of a direct shot of the AK-47 and AK-74. Reducing the mass of both the weapon itself and the ammunition. This means that the soldier can take more ammunition, and the industry makes production cheaper. The lethal and stopping power of a small-bore bullet is oddly greater, compare the wound channel from feces 5,45 and 7,62. Many are surprised, but the machine gun is not designed for murder, but for serious injury - it is much more profitable to wound in modern warfare. The reduction in size affected not only hand weapons, but for example mines. It is not for nothing that our designers, having looked at how bullets work in real combat clashes, "borrowed" the caliber from our "Western partners"
  • gvozdan
    gvozdan 22 February 2016 01: 30
    0
    It is also necessary to add to the article that "... thus light machine guns are also not needed." In my direct conclusion from the author's logic