Military Review

AK bayonets

88
In the late forties, the Soviet army began to develop a new line of small weapons under the intermediate cartridge 7,62х39 mm. The full-scale production of the Kalashnikov assault rifle, the Simonov self-loading carbine and the Degtyarev light machine gun began. The widespread use of new ideas has led to the fact that the samples created on the basis of these weapons are still used in the Russian armed forces and armies of other countries. Despite a lot of innovations, the new weapon had to be equipped with “traditional” bayonets. It was necessary to provide for the possibility of installing blades on the automatic machine of the design of M.T. Kalashnikov and carbine systems S.G. Simonov.


It should be noted that the Kalashnikov assault rifle did not immediately receive a bayonet. AK of the first modification was made until the end of the fifties and existed in three main versions. So, the first version, known under the unofficial designation "Type 1", was produced from the late forties to 51. Later, production of the “Type 2” modification began, which differed from the basic one by some differences of a technical and technological nature. In 1955, the “3 Type” series was launched, which was produced before the start of AKM production. Automatic AK "Type 1" was not completed with a bayonet. Similar additional equipment was proposed only in the modernized project “Type 2”. In the future, all modifications of Kalashnikov assault rifles were completed with bayonet knives of various models.

According to reports, the ready-made bayonet for the automatic machine of the new model did not appear immediately. In 1951, the bayonet model 6X1 was developed, which, however, did not go into series. The design of this weapon had a number of characteristic features that did not ensure full compatibility with the machine guns of the first modification. To use such a bayonet, it was necessary to release new machines with the appropriate fasteners, or redo existing weapons. Naturally, such a design of the bayonet could not be approved for mass production and use.


Kalashnikov assault rifles of the first versions. From above so-called. "Type 1", bottom "Type 2" with a bayonet. Photo of Wikimedia Commons


In the development of the first bayonet for AK, it was decided to use the developments in previous similar developments. The prototype of the bayonet 6X1 was a melee weapon for the Tokarev SVT-38 self-loading rifle. The blade of the base bayonet has undergone some minor changes, and the handle has been completely redone with the design of the new weapon. The result of this was the emergence of designs that could be considered almost completely new.

The total length of the 6X1 product was 310 mm, of which 200 mm was accounted for a blade 22 mm wide. The latter had a double-edged, symmetrical combat end. Also provided for sharpening on the upper edge (from the mount on the handle). On the side of the blade were oblong valleys. Behind the heel of the blade was a metal crosspiece with attachments for mounting on the weapon. Behind the cross there were two cheeks, fastened with screws. The head of the handle was made of metal and had a slot for mounting on the machine, as well as a latch with a button.

For installation on the machine bayonet 6X1 had a pair of mounts. On the upper part of the cross, there were two L-shaped brackets turned towards each other. A similar design, but in the form of a large part with a groove in the form of an inverted "T" was in the back of the handle. When mounted on an automatic machine, the L-shaped brackets should cling to the muzzle of the barrel, and the T-shaped groove included the teeth on the lower inlet of the gas chamber. The fixation on the weapon was provided with a spring-loaded latch. By pressing its button, it was possible to free the bayonet and remove it from the machine.

For carrying the bayonet, the standard for that time metal sheath of an oblong shape was proposed. On top of them with a metal ring was attached leather loop for carrying on a belt. It was assumed that most of the time the bayonet will be in the sheath, and its installation on the machine will be made only before the start of the battle with the melee.

AK bayonets
Automatic "Type 2" with a bayonet 6X1. Photo Rusknife.com


The bayonet for the Kalashnikov assault rifle 6X1 met the basic requirements, but still did not suit the military. The design of the fasteners on the head of the handle could only be used with the influx on the lower part of the barrel. The machines of the early series did not have such equipment, because of which they could not be equipped with new bayonets. The army planned to continue the operation of AK Type 1 until the development of a resource, which is why the manufacture of bayonets with specific fastenings was considered inexpedient.

On the basis of the bayonet 6X1, it was decided to develop a new version of additional melee weapons for machine gunners. The new project, which received the designation 6X2, should have been based on the existing design, but use universal fasteners so that the bayonet could be used with AK guns of different series, regardless of the specific design of the trunk and the nodes installed on it.

When creating a new bayonet, a blade borrowed from the base 6X1 was used. This part of the weapon has not undergone any noticeable changes. Only the handle was refined, the design of which was to include new assemblies for mounting on the machine. One of the main results of this alteration was the change in the dimensions of the bayonet. Its length has increased to 315 mm, and the length of the blade - to 215 mm. The overall layout of the parts, with the exception of some nuances, remained the same.


Bayonet knife 6X2 with scabbard. Photo Dmazay.ru


In order to provide the possibility of mounting on automatic machines of various types, not equipped with special fastenings, the bayonet 6X2 received universal mounting systems. A ring with an inner diameter of 17,7 mm, designed to be mounted on the barrel, was placed on the spider of the bayonet. At the same time, the bayonet received a new latch mounted inside the cross and the front of the handle. The control button was brought to the opposite side of the grip handle. On the handle head, in turn, a cut ring appeared, which was proposed to be worn on the trunk. Between the cross and the metal head were plastic cheeks, connected by screws.

When installing the bayonet on the machine, it was necessary to put the rear grip of the handle on the barrel in front of the venting unit, and then slide the cross ring on the barrel. When this happened, the fixation of the bayonet with the latch. After pressing the button, it was possible to remove the bayonet and put it in the sheath or use it for other purposes.

The sheath for the bayonet 6X2 as a whole repeated the unit for the blade of the previous model. The differences consisted only in their dimensions: a slightly longer blade demanded an appropriate means of storage. As before, most of the time the bayonet was supposed to be in the sheath. Attach it to the machine should only be necessary, if possible, start hand-to-hand combat.

The bayonet type 6X2 for the AK Type 2 assault rifle went into series in the early fifties. These weapons were equipped with new-made serial automata. In addition, the mass release allowed to equip the blades and weapons of the old series. Thus, over time, all or almost all of the AKs in the army were equipped with bayonets. In addition to the 6X2 designation in the armed forces, the GAU index 56-X-212 was also used, based on the index of the machine gun itself - 56-А-212. Often there is an erroneous index 26-X-212, but it is not true, since the GAU indexer arr. 1938 was simply missing the “26” section, and all designations began with a five.


The structure of the bayonet 6X2. Figure Rusknife.com


Initially, the bayonets 6X2 were made only in the Soviet Union. Over time, licenses for the manufacture of Kalashnikov assault rifles and bayonets for them were transferred to several foreign countries. It is noteworthy that AKM-type automata were mainly produced abroad, but this weapon was often equipped with exactly 6X2 bayonets. Similar products were manufactured and used in Bulgaria, GDR, China and other countries.

At the end of the fifties, a modernized version of the Kalashnikov assault rifle, AKM, was adopted. In the technical assignment, in accordance with which this weapon was developed, it was originally required to create a bayonet-knife of a new design. Due to this, all AKM from the very beginning went off the conveyor with blades. For several years, industry and the army have replaced the old AK machine guns with new AKMs. Together with them were replaced and bayonets.

The active exploitation of the 6XX2 / 56-X-212 bayonets continued until the end of the very first modification of the Kalashnikovs. In the future, these blades were sent to storage or for remelting. Part of the bayonet knives later sold out to museums and private collections. The army, in turn, switched to new bayonets with new features and capabilities.


On the materials of the sites:
http://bayonet.lv/
http://bratishka.ru/
http://rusknife.com/
http://ak-info.ru/
Author:
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  1. Nikolay71
    Nikolay71 4 February 2016 06: 18
    11
    And the old bayonet-knife looks more attractive than from the AK-74. I wonder how he had sharpening? I remember in the army with a bayonet-knife it was problematic even to open a can of canned food. Opened usually sharpened badge of a soldier's belt.
    I hope there will be a continuation.
    1. BLOND
      BLOND 4 February 2016 06: 28
      +8
      Quote: Nikolay71
      And the old bayonet-knife looks more attractive than from the AK-74. I wonder how he had sharpening? I remember in the army with a bayonet-knife it was problematic even to open a can of canned food. Opened usually sharpened badge of a soldier's belt.
      I hope there will be a continuation.

      Due to the fact that it is probably not "sharpened" for opening a can ...))
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. the47th
      the47th 4 February 2016 09: 12
      +5
      A bayonet-knife is not a knife in the usual sense. He must pierce the carcass of the enemy in a state adjacent to the machine gun and bite the wire with the sheath. He performs these functions. The blade of the bayonet-knife is made of a brittle alloy, and when it is sharpened, it will quickly become worthless. To open the stew there are combat knives.
      1. Shadowcat
        Shadowcat 4 February 2016 10: 30
        +2
        The knife is primarily a tool, the last - edged weapons. ;)
    4. Vega
      Vega 4 February 2016 10: 50
      +3
      The bayonet-knife had no sharpening and was intended for causing punctured, not cut, wounds.
      1. uwzek
        uwzek 4 February 2016 16: 56
        +4
        Quote: vega
        The bayonet-knife had no sharpening and was intended for causing punctured, not cut, wounds.

        The bayonet-knife is a universal tool. Why should he be sharpened. Moreover, each working area of ​​the bayonet-knife at its specific sharpening angle. Without such an operation, the bayonet-knife is useless even for inflicting puncture wounds on it (well, okay, it is of little use for applying them). But who, in peacetime, will allow a conscript soldier to sharpen his bayonet? What will this thing turn into in ten years of operation? After ten hosts, most of which are unable to hone the bread cutter. Tools for sharpening a bayonet were not even provided for in units, and sharpening bayonet-knives was severely persecuted (a very reasonable solution in peacetime, when no one went to a bayonet or got into situations requiring the use of other functions of a bayonet-knife).
    5. svp67
      svp67 4 February 2016 18: 27
      0
      Quote: Nikolay71
      I wonder how he had sharpening?

      Fine, better than later ...
    6. python2a
      python2a 4 February 2016 19: 19
      +1
      The bayonet-knife was sharp, we opened the cans to them.
  2. BLOND
    BLOND 4 February 2016 06: 31
    +5
    On the top photo is my favorite machine!
    I remember in the 86th I took the Kalash in my hands for the first time - and he shot himself and always at the target
    Many thanks to the author for the article!
    1. UNFAMILIAR
      UNFAMILIAR 4 February 2016 22: 40
      0
      Quote: BLOND
      I remember in the 86th I took the Kalash in my hands for the first time - and he shot himself and always at the target

      I remember in the 86th I first took a Kalash in my hands - he could not shoot, it was all drilled laughing , for us the second graders were arranged, I don't remember something like a lesson in courage in the NVP class, maybe it was AK47 I don't remember, I was small (in size), and all the adult things are big. But in the 96th AKM jackhammer itself did not shoot, had his own "temper", in order to hit 8-10 it was necessary to aim at the left corner of the chest target, and also when firing bursts he tried to corrode his eyes (this is probably why in this exercise the bespectacled people in our company had better results), and also first time tried to stun laughing
  3. magician
    magician 4 February 2016 06: 33
    +5
    the bayonet in the class refers to stabbing melee weapons, bayonets for AK were later developed as a universal tool.
  4. PKK
    PKK 4 February 2016 07: 22
    0
    In those days, everyone liked this bayonet, then they did not know the word "brutal", this name is suitable for it. Personally, I do not like bayonets, they are heavy if you do not train with them constantly.
  5. Balagan
    Balagan 4 February 2016 07: 25
    +1
    This bayonet-knife looks more beautiful, but it has less functionality.
  6. otto meer
    otto meer 4 February 2016 09: 16
    0
    And I personally from the entire AK line most like the bayonet with the hundredth series. In terms of contours, in form, but not in quality, it is simply blatantly terrible for the entire line am . In any case, starting with AKMs, I did not hold earlier models in my hands.
    1. uwzek
      uwzek 4 February 2016 17: 00
      0
      Quote: otto meer
      And I personally from the entire line of AK most of all a bayonet with a hundredth series like

      Personally, I like the first version of the bayonet-knife from AKM. The scabbard is ugly to it: a piece of iron with a nasty rubber insulator - and the handle and blade are brutal.
  7. Robert Nevsky
    Robert Nevsky 4 February 2016 10: 14
    0
    I served with the AKC, there was no bayonet for him.
    1. 26rus
      26rus 4 February 2016 11: 11
      +1
      Quote: Robert Nevsky
      I served with the AKC, there was no bayonet for him.

      Next to our unit was a separate company for escorting military cargo. In service they had the AKS-74, also without bayonet-knives. And they entered the outfits with exactly the same bayonets, for this several pieces were stored in the arms.
    2. vik27o456
      vik27o456 5 February 2016 01: 05
      0
      as there was a bayonet in every pyramid in the cell in front of the machine was a bayonet knife .74-76
  8. Forest
    Forest 4 February 2016 10: 21
    0
    This bayonet was so interestingly balanced that 7 was stuck with 6 of thrown knives and this was done without preparation.
    1. 2news
      2news 4 February 2016 11: 09
      +3
      Quote: Forest
      This bayonet was so interestingly balanced that 7 was stuck with 6 of thrown knives and this was done without preparation.

      Do not fantasize. Moreover, throwing it into a tree, for example, was not worth it. Getting in such a way that it stuck in was not easy, and the ebonite pads on unsuccessful throws scattered quite quickly.
      1. 1rl141
        1rl141 4 February 2016 11: 29
        +2
        Quote: 2news
        Quote: Forest
        This bayonet was so interestingly balanced that 7 was stuck with 6 of thrown knives and this was done without preparation.

        Do not fantasize. Moreover, throwing it into a tree, for example, was not worth it. Getting in such a way that it stuck in was not easy, and the ebonite pads on unsuccessful throws scattered quite quickly.


        Strongly disagree.
        We armed the orderlies with such bayonet-knives. And why didn’t we do anything with these bayonet-knives, and threw it into the fence as you like. Nothing happened with these knives. 4 years we mocked them, mocked us before and still haven’t one year scoffed.
        Throwing that bayonet into a tree or fence was a pleasure. Its "flying" qualities are really good. It is inconvenient to throw by the handle, but due to the length of the blade it was possible to throw from a great distance. And with unsuccessful throws, nothing split.
        But the bayonet from AKM is really very gentle. One throw "flat" and the blade broke at the junction with the handle. There was a thin shank at the junction, and it broke. And the steel was brittle. High hardness but brittle.
        In our opinion, the bayonet from AK is better than others. I think that he would have kept the sharpening well if someone began to sharpen it.
        1. tolancop
          tolancop 4 February 2016 13: 04
          +1
          The AK-74 also had a fragile bayonet. We had such a broken one. And did not give in to welding. Maybe argon and something else, and could be welded normally, but where to get argon in a simple part. Somehow they grabbed it with a simple electrode, just to hold on, and even then for joy. And the owner of this "miracle" was strictly warned not to play with a bayonet. When we went to the outfit in a company, usually everyone took their own bayonet-knife. But this "invalid" was not touched, they took someone else's.
          1. 1rl141
            1rl141 4 February 2016 13: 17
            +2
            We have one shot, being on guard, I broke my bayonet AKM. He was a local and quiet sap, having gone on dismissal, gave the bayonet to his father. He was brewed at the factory where his dad worked. There was no argon welding then. I don’t know what cooked, but it was brewed well.
      2. alpamys
        alpamys 4 February 2016 13: 54
        0
        Quote: 2news

        Do not fantasize. Moreover, throwing it into a tree, for example, was not worth it. Getting in such a way that it stuck in was not easy, and the ebonite pads on unsuccessful throws scattered quite quickly.


        ebony or wooden plates were replaced with iron (to make the handle heavier) and stuck with a bang, with a certain skill.
      3. lukke
        lukke 4 February 2016 22: 52
        +1
        Do not fantasize. Moreover, throwing it into a tree, for example, was not worth it. Getting in such a way that it stuck in was not easy, and the ebonite pads on unsuccessful throws scattered quite quickly.
        the hell would it be with them, the blade would break every other time, which then led to sincere conversations on the difficult situation of many heroines of German films from the XXX cycle on behalf of the nachkar, the duty officer on the shelf, etc. and often this fatherly love was accompanied right up to the demobilization
      4. Forest
        Forest 9 February 2016 14: 36
        0
        You apparently did not hold it in your hands.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  9. aviator1913
    aviator1913 4 February 2016 11: 41
    +1
    This bayonet was so interestingly balanced that 7 was stuck with 6 of thrown knives and this was done without preparation.


    On the subsequent throw of these knives, they scattered. The fragility of a bayonet-knife is a terrible thing, especially given the problems that then have to be tackled due to damage to knives. Once throwing a bayonet gave a knife to a friend, and he immediately broke it .. That was such a flight. Why it was impossible to make better metal, why in a country where there are so many resources, there was such quality of steel, but they couldn’t make a normal bayonet-knife, I’m still wondering why.
    1. 2news
      2news 4 February 2016 11: 56
      -31 qualifying.
      Quote: aviator1913
      Why it was impossible to make better metal, why in a country where there are so many resources, there was such quality of steel, but they couldn’t make a normal bayonet-knife, I’m still wondering why.

      And why it was impossible to make a normal small arms? After all, almost all Soviet light small arms were substandard. Erzatsi, to one degree or another, simply put. And you say, bayonet.
      1. Chtononibrator
        Chtononibrator 4 February 2016 12: 33
        +5
        Yes, it’s better than any guarantees that were buggy on the first shots even after being adopted by an arsenal or a m16-lover who lay down disassembled next to the corpse of an American soldier in Vietnam.
        1. 2news
          2news 4 February 2016 12: 52
          -19 qualifying.
          Quote: Chtononibrator
          and even better than any guarantees that were buggy on the first shots even after being adopted by the arsenal or the M16 amateur, to lie down, taken apart near the corpse of an American soldier in Vietnam.

          You are an incompetent and grumpy person. Write a lot, but more in Uryakal tone. Slogans and stamps. Bored with you. Self-educate, I already advised you this.
          Before you scold Garand and M16, first find something similar among the products of the USSR military industry. And then speak from the rostrum with your "denunciations."
          Here is the SVD, some kind of analogue of Garand, only in 1963. could do. By that time, the guarantee was removed from the armament.
          And they could not even make an analogue of M16 in the USSR.
          1. tracer
            tracer 4 February 2016 16: 17
            15
            Here again .... Again, two excellent models of weapons in parrots are compared. Reply to your comment on Garand. It was in the Soviet Union at the end of the thirties (when exactly find yourself if interested) that an automatic large-caliber rifle under the designation SVT 38 was first put into service in the world. Garand was still in service at that time. And at the beginning of the war, in 1942, SVT 38-40 were removed from service. It quickly dawned on our people that the idea of ​​a large-caliber self-loading infantry rifle was not advisable. In America, the process dragged on, and due to the inertia of the lobbying interests of the arms companies, Garand was withdrawn from service much later in the early 60s. This is about "parrots" with Garands. About AK and M 16 more precisely the AR series, your opinion, to put it mildly, is not very "expert". In two samples of weapons, completely different concepts of the idea of ​​using small arms on the battlefield were applied. After the invaluable experience of the Second World War, which proved that the application of the concept of "shaft of fire" is a fundamental factor in future wars. The density of fire was taken as the basis for the idea of ​​developing and creating combat firearms in the USSR. The "automatic machine" did not swear "alone in the field" but was clearly integrated into the whole system of light firearms created later, being its basic and integral part. In Yotube there are a million videos confirming the superiority of the AR series rifles (M16 military designation) over AK in accuracy and lethality. And this would be true, if not for one BUT! Namely, it changes the picture to the opposite. Now imagine a group of very angry people with red stars on their hats with earflaps in the amount of 100 people. Now let's imagine that each such "ill-wisher" conducts automatic fire with a caliber of 7,62 (we know the mass of the bullet, we know the rate of fire, we know the ammunition load). Now count the mass of "angry bees" flying at the enemy at the same time. And this swarm cannot be stopped by overheating and long recharges, plugging and shutter wedges. And the place where the trunks of the "ill-wishers" of any "elves" are directed simply turns into a lunar landscape. AK will be a very significant cause of a sad mood for any "good elves". This is the power of Kalashnikov's weapons. It implements the purely Russian idea of ​​"walking like that" to a simple and powerful Russian soul.
            1. gross kaput
              gross kaput 4 February 2016 17: 08
              -1
              Quote: tracer
              It was in the Soviet Union at the end of the thirties (when exactly you find it if you are interested) that was the first in the world to be adopted

              Let's just say - work on self-loading both in the USSR and the USA began almost simultaneously in the late 20s and went head to head - in 1936, the Garandovskaya M-1 was adopted in the USA, and the Simonovskaya ABC was adopted in the USSR. Due to massive complaints from the troops in the United States, the M-1940 is brought to mind until 1 - they rework the gas outlet and even "on trifles" and in the USSR they change the ABC to SVT-38, which, after operation, is finalized and the SVT-40 is received - as we can see the whole epic with self-recharging is absolutely synchronous on both continents.
            2. 2news
              2news 4 February 2016 17: 42
              -12 qualifying.
              Quote: tracer
              the world's first automatic large-caliber rifle under the designation SVT 38 was adopted.

              1. It’s not difficult to adopt go **. It’s hard for them to fight.
              2. Never SVT-38/40 were large-caliber.
              3. "For the first time in the world" in the USSR it happened only in 1963. Before that, "the first in the world and terribly advanced" somehow did not want to work and did not stay in service.
              Quote: tracer
              And at the beginning of the war since 1942, the SVT 38-40 was removed from service

              Actually, only SVT-40 and only from production. With arms SVT-40 removed in 1945.
              Quote: tracer
              It quickly dawned on us that the idea of ​​a large-caliber self-loading infantry rifle was not practical.

              Do you yourself understand what you wrote?
              1. Again large-caliber. 7,62 mm is considered a normal caliber.
              2. I don’t know who “yours” is there and what came to them. But the whole world after WW2 armed the squad according to the self-loading scheme + LMG (handbrake). And only the Bolsheviks who were sick in their heads were smart about HZ what, and HZ why.
              Quote: tracer
              In America, the process dragged on, and due to the inertia of the lobbying interests of arms companies, Garand was decommissioned much later in the early 60s.

              Hmmm. The conversation with the "clever janitor did not bring Ostap any pleasure." Why are you writing about something that you have no idea about?
              Quote: tracer
              In two samples of weapons, completely different concepts of the idea of ​​using small arms on the battlefield were used.

              Wow. Right now I'm burning with the desire to know these sacred concepts.
              Quote: tracer
              Density of fire was taken as the basis for the idea of ​​developing and creating combat firearms in the USSR.

              Is it okay that "dense fire" was created by AK at a distance of 100-150 m? And the fact that the effective range was only 300 m? While the real squad fight starts from 400 m? Do you think this is normal? Somehow you can't tell in appearance.
              Quote: tracer
              The "automatic machine" did not swear "alone in the field" but was clearly integrated into the whole system of light firearms created later, being its basic and integral part

              Oh yeah. There was not a chain, but a huge chain. In fact, at a distance of more than 300 m, only platoon machine guns (in the USSR were called company guns) RP-46 and company machine guns SG-43 / SGM could effectively "work". The rest at a distance of 300-400 m could only nervously smoke on the sidelines. A very dead "fireball" was obtained.
              1. 2news
                2news 4 February 2016 17: 43
                -5
                Quote: tracer
                Now count the mass of "angry bees" flying at the enemy at the same time

                There were very few "angry bees" at a distance of more than 150 m. And at a distance of 300 m, stings fell out. But in other "evil bees" (even if already stale Garand in the conditional 1955), these stings fell out approximately at a distance of 650 m. No, further than 400 m without optics it was very difficult to "bite". But at a distance of 400 m with an open sight, it's easy. Here's infa for you to think about, what should the first "beekeepers" do if the latter stay 350 m and start to wet them from there with impunity?
                Quote: tracer
                And the place where the trunks of the "ill-wishers" of any "elves" are directed simply turns into a lunar landscape.

                You are a great dreamer. You need to write stories in the "fantasy" style.
                Quote: tracer
                This is the power of Kalashnikov's weapons. It implements the purely Russian idea of ​​"walking like that" to a simple and powerful Russian soul.

                Well yes. To fantasize, so to fantasize.
              2. The comment was deleted.
              3. Jackking
                Jackking 5 February 2016 00: 14
                +1
                Swiss penguin, stop insulting people. You do not like the Bolsheviks - so you have already cut off, judging by the badge. So calm down and speak essentially, m ... k.
                1. 2news
                  2news 5 February 2016 01: 08
                  -4
                  Quote: Jackking
                  stop offending people. Bolsheviks do not like you

                  Two, I don’t like the geeks who destroyed and genocide my people. Russian people, if you do not understand. Any other questions?
                  Quote: Jackking
                  So calm down and speak essentially, m ... k.

                  That's the "remote daredevil". Something he sold today. Probably the evil neighbor boys in the entrance beat me and took away the money for ice cream.
                  1. Idiot
                    Idiot 5 February 2016 20: 49
                    -1
                    For 2news (2): The Germans do not like the Bolsheviks who genocide his Russian compatriots. The Bolsheviks killed 27 million Russian compatriots of the German. Scum! The German himself is a "remote daredevil" - even his name courageously refused to indicate. Soon the Arabs will turn you all off there.
                    1. 2news
                      2news 5 February 2016 23: 56
                      -2
                      Quote: pft, fkb
                      German don't like

                      Yeah. Shitman.
                      Quote: pft, fkb
                      they do not like the Bolsheviks who genocide his Russian compatriots. Bolsheviks destroyed 27 million Russian compatriots

                      Far more than 27 million. And I do not like it. If you like, then you are in the Gestapo. Or the NKVD. No difference.
                      Quote: pft, fkb
                      Soon the Arabs will thrash you all there.

                      Well, what are the Arabs. Crackers and closer enough. Wait, they will be soon.
                  2. Idiot
                    Idiot 5 February 2016 20: 49
                    -1
                    For 2news (2): The Germans do not like the Bolsheviks who genocide his Russian compatriots. The Bolsheviks killed 27 million Russian compatriots of the German. Scum! The German himself is a "remote daredevil" - even his name courageously refused to indicate. Soon the Arabs will turn you all off there.
                2. The comment was deleted.
            3. 2news
              2news 4 February 2016 18: 04
              -6
              Quote: gross kaput
              as you can see, the whole epic with self-loading is absolutely synchronous on both continents.

              Well yes. Exactly the same. The difference is in the "little things". In the end results. The Americans bring Garand to a normal state and use it for a long time and persistently. SVT-40 at the beginning of the Second World War was removed from production, and in 1945. finally write off for scrap. Well, just complete synchronicity.
            4. The comment was deleted.
            5. gross kaput
              gross kaput 4 February 2016 18: 55
              -2
              Quote: tracer
              . And at the beginning of the war in 1942, the SVT 38-40 was removed from service.

              Well, here again, the old song about the main thing - no one removed the weapons from the SVT - SVT / AVT was discontinued in JANUARY 1945. The last rifles were assembled in MAE-JUNE 1945. In 1942. the factory evacuated to Mednogorsk reached the pre-war plan of 50 rifles per month. in the future, the monthly number of rifles only increased during the Second World War, made more than one and a half million SVT / AVT, produced them much less than the three rulers only because of the much greater complexity and, accordingly, the absolute inability to provide the required number of rifles only with the release of SVT.
              In 1943, the Garanda SVT and G41V were tested at the NISPVO
              and this is a modern comparison at the shooting range http://maxpark.com/community/404/content/1752148
              Quote: tracer
              And this swarm cannot be stopped by overheating and long recharges, plugs and shutter wedges.

              I don’t write hell - the M-16 problems remained in deep childhood and by the 70s they were mostly obsolete, about the swarm - the M-16A3 / A4 allows much longer firing without overheating than the AK, it is equipped with 30 rounds of magazines, and she has much less store change than AK. So stop thinking with cold war stamps.
              1. tracer
                tracer 4 February 2016 19: 41
                +1
                Bursts were never fired. But there is a Remington R 15 223 / 5.56 in the safe. There are no precise convenient words ... But sometimes it wedges ... and the shutter strikes the lower cartridge like a razor. And if for you this is not an analogue of the M 16, then there is nothing to talk about. This is about "childhood sores" that were cured by the age of 70. EDUCATIVE MEAS ...
                1. gross kaput
                  gross kaput 4 February 2016 20: 26
                  0
                  Quote: tracer
                  There is no exact convenient word ... But sometimes it wedges ... and with the shutter the lower cartridge strikes like a razor

                  answer one simple question - are these jambs only for your rifle or do you think that they are characteristic of the whole family? At my comrade, the trunk on the saiga MK was pressured with a pull-out of the center line of the trunk box of 2 g. and what we assume that this is inherent in all Kalashnikovs?
                  Quote: tracer
                  And if for you this is not an analogue of M 16

                  But does remington make mil-speck arches?
                  Quote: tracer
                  Remington R 15 223 / 5.56

                  So in what caliber do you have Remington? 223 and 5,56X45 are somewhat different, although the cartridges are similar in geometry, 5,56 has thicker liner walls and higher pressure and fire .223 cartridge with 5,56 chamber can be, although not desirable, with .223 chamber 5,56 prohibited.
                  Well, the fact that you still have not figured out why your weapon is buggy does not honor you.
                  1. tracer
                    tracer 4 February 2016 23: 39
                    0
                    There are transitional chambers accepting both cartridges. More suitable for 5.56 and a twist appropriate.
                    1. gross kaput
                      gross kaput 5 February 2016 00: 01
                      0
                      Quote: tracer
                      There are transitional chambers

                      Only Rem is not concerned, they basically do only under .223.
                  2. Jackking
                    Jackking 5 February 2016 00: 18
                    0
                    That's what this is about - the M-series is super reliable and democratic, but:
                    1. use only brass sleeves
                    2. Use only special smokeless gunpowder
                    3. In no case do not stick with a hint of gunpowder
                    4. God forbid to drop the receiver on a hard surface
                    5. Do not forget to syringe - for the information of others, there are lubrication points on the MKE (as on the pivot suspension)
                    And the rest, a beautiful marquise ...
                    1. gross kaput
                      gross kaput 5 February 2016 00: 34
                      0
                      Quote: Jackking
                      do not forget to syringe - for the information of others, there are lubrication points on the MKE (as on the pivot suspension)

                      Do not stick your fingertips where these points are for extrusion.
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. uwzek
            uwzek 4 February 2016 17: 27
            +3
            Quote: 2news
            Here is the SVD, no analogue of Garand

            With what fright did the Dragunov rifle turn into an analogue of the Garand rifle? Their purpose is different, TTD is also different, the operation of the automation is very different, especially since the SVD and M-1 had predecessors (I mean that none of the systems you mentioned was pioneer in principle of work. The only merit of the Garand rifle is its adoption as the main one earlier than anyone else in the world, but make allowance for the fact that the whole world was already at that time at the time, and America was still inventing weapons for the peacetime army, which were very few in number. recognized by all, war prevented them from supplying our entire army.
            1. 2news
              2news 4 February 2016 17: 46
              -6
              Quote: uwzek
              With what fright did the Dragunov rifle turn into an analogue of the Garand rifle?

              Probably from the fact that these are completely similar products. If you are confused by the scope, then unscrew it. This attachment, it does not affect the design.
              Quote: uwzek
              The same Tokarev rifles are much more perfect than the Garand rifle, which is recognized by all, the war prevented them from supplying our entire army.

              Of course. It was because of their wild perfection and war that they were taken out of service immediately after it ended.
              Do not write what you do not know for sure.
            2. The comment was deleted.
          4. Belgorod
            Belgorod 4 February 2016 17: 55
            0
            And why are Kalash in the United States doing?
            By the way, one Merikak flyer, shot down in Vietnam, killed a sentry during his escape and took possession of the PM. With this "substandard" he went through the whole jungle and when he went out to his people he said, “This is a weapon, but we have it.
            1. 2news
              2news 4 February 2016 18: 11
              -4
              Quote: Belgorod
              And why are Kalash in the United States doing?

              Why not do it? This does not say that the American army is taking them into service. And for collectors they will not do it yet.
              Quote: Belgorod
              during the escape killed the sentry and took possession of the PM. With this "substandard" he went through the whole jungle and when he went out to his people he said, “This is a weapon, but we have it.

              Told you? Or was it written in the agitprop summary?
              You write absolute nonsense. Ballistics is an exact science. Like math. If you do not know its basics, this does not mean that no one knows. PM, this is an air-conditioned police gun. In the NORMAL army he had no place, no, and never will be. Never.
            2. The comment was deleted.
          5. Jackking
            Jackking 5 February 2016 00: 10
            0
            Ignoramus. Read about the Russian gunsmith Fedorov, about the weapons of Tokarev, Simonov and others. Then read how the Belgians tuned SVT and passed it off as FN FAL. And read about the fact that when the USSR switched to an intermediate cartridge (7,62x39), the Americans and friends still used .308Win (7,62x51) - and when faced with AK in Vietnam, they feverishly accepted .223Rem as the main one (for a rollback).
            So baby, the quality of the weapon does not depend on appearance, but on functionality - and in this, swallow dust from Russia ...
            1. The comment was deleted.
            2. 2news
              2news 5 February 2016 00: 30
              -3
              Quote: Jackking
              Ignoramus.

              Usually the signature is put at the end, and you at the beginning. Well, everyone has their own quirks.
              Quote: Jackking
              Read about the Russian gunsmith Fedorov,

              This one that navaya a lot, but really nothing worked? Read. And about his "masterpieces" I can tell anyone myself.
              Quote: Jackking
              about the weapons of Tokarev, Simonov and others.

              Actually, I would put Degtyarev in the first place. And I somehow do not remember others easily. However, Simonov is just nothing.
              Quote: Jackking
              Then read how the Belgians tuned SVT and passed it off as FN FAL.

              Bravo! The Belgians, one of the best gunsmiths in the world, tuned Tokarev's unsuccessful model. I am directly sweating and sweating from people like you.
              Quote: Jackking
              And read about the fact that when the USSR switched to an intermediate cartridge (7,62x39), the Americans and comrades still used .308Win (7,62x51) - and faced with AK in Vietnam, they feverishly accepted .223Rem as the main one (for rollback).

              Well, okay. Here is another delirium. And about "feverishly". And about 7,62x51 mm. And about the fact that the comrade is not aware that the whole world was laughing with the USSR, after he armed himself with products on the cartridge 7,62x39 mm.
              By the way, after looking at the tests of the M16 in Vietnam, it was the USSR that feverishly developed the 5,45x39 mm cartridge, AK-74, and poured the AKM into the sewer. Those. gifted to "friends" all over the world. Together with the masterpiece cartridge 7,62x39 mm.
              Quote: Jackking
              So baby, the quality of the weapon does not depend on appearance, but on functionality

              Generally mainly from ballistics. I understand the word is new to you. But nothing. Look in the dictionary.
      2. Proud.
        Proud. 4 February 2016 19: 32
        +2
        Quote: 2news
        And why it was impossible to make a normal small arms? After all, almost all Soviet light small arms were substandard. Erzatsi, to one degree or another, simply put. And you say, bayonet.

        Hehe hehe ... You write the wildest garbage.
        1. 2news
          2news 4 February 2016 19: 35
          -8
          Quote: Be proud.
          You write the wildest garbage.

          The opinion of illiterate Urikalok forgot to ask.
    2. 26rus
      26rus 4 February 2016 12: 10
      +7
      Because the bayonet-knife is not a throwing, and not even cutting, but a thrusting weapon (with some additional functions). And the steel for them was selected taking into account this functionality. And for throwing and other "spectacular" events, there are specialized knives, the possession and ability to handle which is not at all necessary for soldiers of combat units. And throwing a bayonet-knife into a fence is, sorry, out of idleness.
    3. gross kaput
      gross kaput 4 February 2016 16: 34
      +2
      Quote: aviator1913
      Why it was impossible to make better metal, why in a country where there are so many resources, there was such quality of steel, but they couldn’t make a normal bayonet-knife, I’m still wondering why.

      Because starting from the 6x3 bayonet for AKM, all domestic bayonet-knives got the opportunity to bite the wire but to make millions of pieces of steel from tool steel is extremely expensive, therefore they make them ordinary structural steel but harden to high hardness which allows you to bite the barb but makes the blade brittle and not suitable for sharpening with small angles - the cutting edge will be chipped.
    4. uwzek
      uwzek 4 February 2016 17: 12
      0
      Quote: aviator1913
      Why it was impossible to make better metal, why in the country where there are so many resources, such a quality of steel was,

      Any hard metal is very brittle to break. Hardness is needed for cutting wire and in a bayonet battle (if the blow fell on the bone - it is cut). And the steel on the bayonets was extremely high quality.
  10. tracer
    tracer 4 February 2016 16: 38
    0
    The knife itself sharpened the usual AKM bayonet to the level of a razor for a bet. True, the angle turned out to be large and the steel in the place where the chrome coating was grinded rusted instantly. To plan, however, with difficulty, but it was possible, for example, to sharpen the handle of a shovel. I took him home for demobilization, I thought to go hunting with him .. so I never took him. As a knife, it is uncomfortable and heavy. But in the army, a bayonet knife for a soldier is a universal tool due to the absence of another tool, a soldier's ingenuity was used in the most unimaginable situations (I will simply keep silent about hammer properties). Conclusion, the bayonet knife fully coped with the tasks assigned to it and was a child of its era. I think it will continue to develop as a direction in melee weapons. For example, yesterday I saw a Bayonet on any pistol with a picatinny rail !!! If you are interested, you will find it yourself on the Internet. Was it cool to attach an AKM bayonet to a modern pistol with a polymer frame? So to say "breathe new life" ... Tex .... Where is my M & P9 .....)))))))))))))))))
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 4 February 2016 18: 44
      +3
      Quote: tracer
      I took him home on a demobilization, I thought with him to go hunting ..

      Lucky people, bayonet-knives for demobilization give. laughing
  11. martin-159
    martin-159 4 February 2016 16: 53
    +2
    Quote: 2news
    Here is the SVD, some kind of analogue of Garand, only in 1963. could do. By that time, the guarantee was removed from the armament.


    Why did this SVD become an analogue of Garanda? Well, if you compare Garand then with SVT-40.
    1. 2news
      2news 4 February 2016 17: 08
      -7
      Quote: martin-159
      Why did this SVD become an analogue of Garanda? Well, if you compare Garand then with SVT-40.

      How can you compare workable and inoperative products? A workable self-loading rifle on a 7,62x54 R cartridge in the USSR was made only in 1963. It was called SVD. Was there a sniper scope or not, it does not matter. Because this is attachment. And without it, SVD is an analogue of the American Garand of the times of 2MB.
      1. Kostya Andreev
        Kostya Andreev 4 February 2016 18: 10
        +3
        You probably do not know but the CBT was adopted by the Wehrmacht.
        Regarding the M-16, I liked it, it has a barrel delay, the magazine is thrown out with a button, the sight is awesome, the switch is a finger, it’s convenient, but I’ll fight with Kalash, I believe in it.
        The disarmament of the SVT, in the year 45, was due to the introduction of the concept of an intermediate cartridge.
        Quote: 2news
        that these are completely similar products.
        they both work on gunpowder and shoot a bullet.
        1. 2news
          2news 4 February 2016 18: 16
          -5
          Quote: Kostya Andreev
          You probably do not know but the CBT was adopted by the Wehrmacht.

          Yes, what are you? Horror and what. I will tell you even more, even the PPSh was adopted by the Wehrmacht. The Wehrmacht had nothing to do with war. After all, he did not count on a protracted world war.
          Quote: Kostya Andreev
          but I will fight with Kalash

          Though with a slingshot. Just keep in mind that your Kalash has an effective fire range of 3/4 of the norm. Because it is an assault, not an automatic rifle. Another type of weapon. Erazats full.
          Quote: Kostya Andrei
          I believe in him.

          It is more logical to believe in that which you have at least a small concept.
          1. Kostya Andreev
            Kostya Andreev 4 February 2016 18: 38
            0
            I’m embarrassed to ask, but you shot him. and could you clarify the norms.


            1. 2news
              2news 4 February 2016 19: 23
              -3
              Quote: Kostya Andreev
              and you shot him.

              The question that surprises me the most. What does this mean for understanding small arms? What do you think, the one who shot 20 times understands better than the one who shot 10 times? Not at all. Shooting / non-shooting on the issue of understanding the rifleman have nothing to do.
              Especially for you I’ll inform you that I shot from all types of weapons up to the Thunder cannon, if this is so interesting to you.
              Quote: Kostya Andreev
              and could you clarify the norms

              400-440 m for different types of weapons. Due to the physiological ability of the eye to aim at an open sight. Therefore, for a single fire it is 400 m. For automatic + 10%.
              Anything less than this, I will not list them, their heap is ersatz. Including assault rifle (assault rifles). In a good way they can be used for special, but not combined-arms tasks.
              1. Kostya Andreev
                Kostya Andreev 4 February 2016 22: 09
                +4
                thunder is 2a28, bmp 1. Visionaries what’s the matter. about the Wehrmacht, weapons can be adopted, even a bad one. but only reliable weapons become popular with soldiers, the PCA among Germans was in second place in terms of popularity, German soldiers liked the SWT (as they say google to help read memories). call the weapon that the whole world ersatz is armed is stupid.
                in the second remark I agree
                do not be offended but you write nonsense. in one comment you write that
                There were very few "angry bees" at a distance of more than 150 m. And at a distance of 300 m, stings fell out. But in other "evil bees" (even if already stale Garand in the conditional 1955), these stings fell out approximately at a distance of 650 m. No, further than 400 m without optics it was very difficult to "bite". But at a distance of 400 m with an open sight, it's easy. Here's infa for you to think about what to do to the first "beekeepers" if the latter stay at 350 m and start wetting them from there with impunity? why you are comparing a rifle and an intermediate cartridge is not clear. like this for automatic + 10.this type of queue, at 400 meters.
                But Kalashnikov will not shoot at 400 meters, but I want to ask how far did you shoot? For example, I saw how from a full-time Kalash, they knocked out all the targets at the training ground, but I didn’t get out of it, as they say in the accuracy mark: it was not a reel d ,,,,, b was in the cockpit.
                1. 2news
                  2news 4 February 2016 23: 35
                  -5
                  Quote: Kostya Andreev
                  PCA among the Germans was in second place in terms of prevalence

                  I repeat. The Germans had problems with weapons, they did not prepare for the war that eventually happened. Therefore, they were widely armed with free trophies on free ammunition.
                  Quote: Kostya Andreev
                  swt liked German soldiers

                  And once again, if the gas regulator is set to the maximum, the SVT-40 will work flawlessly. But relatively briefly (about half of the resource). For the Germans, it did not matter, because the prime cost of SVT-40 for them was zero. And the manufacturer after the start of the Second World War removed it from production, expensive. In addition, there were also jambs.
                  Quote: Kostya Andreev
                  call the weapon that the whole world is armed ersatz is stupid

                  The whole world is armed with normal capable weapons. And what the whole Holodran world is armed with, it does not matter.
                  Quote: Kostya Andreev
                  why you are comparing a rifle and an intermediate cartridge is not clear.

                  And what is incomprehensible? AK assault rifle, it’s actually an assault rifle only at a range of 100-150 m. Further, it is almost impossible to get somewhere else from there anyway. But basically this is an assault self-loading rifle (single fire) with an effective fire range of 300 m.
                  Garand is a full-fledged self-loading rifle on a rifle cartridge. Those. weapons with excess power, unlike AK, which has insufficient power. The entire range of effective Garand defeat can be chosen only with the help of optics (in the same way as it was done in SVD). But at a range of up to 400 m, it is quite possible to do without optics, just with the eye.
                  So it turns out that Garand can effectively water AKashnikov from a range of 400 m, and AKashniki can effectively answer Garands with only 300 m.In theory, if Garanda is delayed by 350 m, then they will kill AKashnikov relatively easily and without loss.
                  Once again. AK, these are actually two weapons in one case:
                  1. At a distance of 100-150 m, this is an automatic machine (that is, an automatic weapon with a speed of 80-100 rounds per minute) with a TTX of a very good submachine gun. Those. at ranges up to 100-150 m, AK has all the advantages over Garand (and M14 too).
                  2. At a range of 100 / 150-300 m, this is a mediocre assault rifle. The rate of fire and the effectiveness of the lesion are normal, but the accuracy is very poor. In this, Garand and M14 are superior to AK significantly.
                  3. At a range of 300-400 m AK inferior to Garand and M14 in everything. In fact, further 300 m AK is not capable, to say the least.
                  4. To shoot further than 400 m, you can attach optics to Garand and get a sniper rifle (see SVD, the same eggs, only in profile). Optics can also be attached to M14, but it will turn out worse than Garand (and SVD). To attach optics AK there is no sense.
                  Somehow like this. Hopefully explained in detail and clearly. I can not compare AK with M16, because there is nothing to compare there. They need to be compared with the AK-74.
                2. The comment was deleted.
              2. pv1005
                pv1005 4 February 2016 22: 31
                +1
                Especially for you I’ll inform you that I shot from all types of weapons up to the Thunder cannon, if this is so interesting to you.

                Atas guys, here the dude shot already from 2A28, we have nothing to do here, he will crush us right now with his intelligence. laughing
                So dear, especially for you, on the Thunder gun types of weapons do not end there. hi
                1. 2news
                  2news 4 February 2016 22: 36
                  -2
                  Quote: pv1005
                  But here is a respected, especially for you, weapons of Thunder types of weapons do not end there.

                  And it’s written specially for you in the same comment that it’s not necessary to shoot at all to understand the marksman. Especially from cannons.
                  1. pv1005
                    pv1005 5 February 2016 00: 10
                    +1
                    Quote: 2news
                    Quote: pv1005
                    But here is a respected, especially for you, weapons of Thunder types of weapons do not end there.

                    And it’s written specially for you in the same comment that it’s not necessary to shoot at all to understand the marksman. Especially from cannons.

                    However, you can’t boast of it.
                    2news (2) EU Yesterday, 19:23 ↑

                    Especially for you I’ll inform you that I shot from all types of weapons up to the Thunder cannon, if this is so interesting to you.
                    1. 2news
                      2news 5 February 2016 00: 42
                      +1
                      Quote: pv1005
                      however, you didn’t use it to boast

                      I was asked, I answered. What is the bluster?
                      1. Walking
                        Walking 5 February 2016 13: 52
                        +1
                        They stopped producing SVT-40 because it was difficult to manufacture and use by people from villages and villages, in comparison with the Mosin rifle, which was cheaper and easier. SVT was much appreciated in the Marine Corps where the fighters were more technically advanced.
                      2. 2news
                        2news 5 February 2016 16: 54
                        0
                        Quote: Hiking
                        They stopped producing SVT-40 because it was difficult to manufacture and use by people from villages and villages, in comparison with the Mosin rifle, which was cheaper and easier. SVT was much appreciated in the Marine Corps where the fighters were more technically advanced.

                        Well, yes, a complete set of Internet tales and gossip. It is a pity that all this is nothing more than a crap.
                        PS. Sometimes it's better to chew than talk.
                  2. The comment was deleted.
  • Kostya Andreev
    Kostya Andreev 4 February 2016 18: 25
    0
    Quote: uwzek
    Why it was impossible to make better metal, why in the country where there are so many resources, such a quality of steel was,

    no need to consider designers, economists, technologists more stupid than us. The fragility of the knife is due to the fact that in a bayonet battle, a machine with a bayonet can get stuck in the bones of the enemy, and the machine is the main weapon of the battle, so that you can quickly break the knife to free the weapon when pulling out the weapon.
  • brn521
    brn521 4 February 2016 18: 47
    +2
    In general, it is understandable. The name "bayonet-knife" misled people, in fact it was not a knife.
  • tracer
    tracer 4 February 2016 18: 47
    +1
    "Oh, how much triangular matters bother me." And all the knowledge at the level "and the Kalash breaks through the rail." They write "things of cosmic significance and cosmtic stupidity" Well ... burn up, read ...
  • Kostya Andreev
    Kostya Andreev 4 February 2016 18: 53
    +2
    Quote: tracer
    "and the Kalash punches the rail."

    along.
  • Kostya Andreev
    Kostya Andreev 4 February 2016 19: 10
    0
    Quote: gross kaput
    She has a much shorter shop time than AK.

    Why?
    1. gross kaput
      gross kaput 4 February 2016 20: 28
      0
      because the store on the arch changes with one hand, while the shutter does not need to be distorted when changing the used store - just press the delay key, and the store neck adds bonuses since you don’t need to hit the store’s front edge with the tooth of the store.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. pv1005
        pv1005 4 February 2016 22: 37
        0
        Quote: gross kaput
        because the store on the arch changes with one hand, while the shutter does not need to be distorted when changing the used store - just press the delay key, and the store neck adds bonuses since you don’t need to hit the store’s front edge with the tooth of the store.

        Something I don’t remember so that on a Kalash store with two hands it is necessary to change. Forever, all normal warriors managed with one hand.
        1. gross kaput
          gross kaput 4 February 2016 23: 00
          -4
          Quote: pv1005
          Something I don’t remember so that on a Kalash store with two hands it is necessary to change.

          You don’t remember a lot of things, but rather you just don’t know and are trying to troll. The store on the AK changes with his right hand on the left arch - do you need to explain further or will your memory turn on?
          1. dvina71
            dvina71 4 February 2016 23: 21
            +3
            Quote: gross kaput

            You don’t remember a lot of things, but rather you just don’t know and are trying to troll. Shop on AK changes with his right hand on the arch left

            Where are such nonsense .. Right-handed change, because under the right-hander. But .. it is just as easy to change the left, but the shutter to distort the left is difficult ..
            Nate to you ... left.
            1. gross kaput
              gross kaput 5 February 2016 00: 28
              +1
              it is possible and so only all this is perverted, or as in this case, a necessary measure in case of injury.
          2. pv1005
            pv1005 5 February 2016 00: 16
            +1
            Quote: gross kaput
            Quote: pv1005
            Something I don’t remember so that on a Kalash store with two hands it is necessary to change.

            You don’t remember a lot of things, but rather you just don’t know and are trying to troll. The store on the AK changes with his right hand on the left arch - do you need to explain further or will your memory turn on?

            You don’t remember what you wrote half an hour ago
            gross kaput (3) RU Yesterday, 20:28 ↑
            because the store on the arch changes with one hand

            How can I recall after 27 years of service how the AK is charging.
  • tracer
    tracer 4 February 2016 19: 11
    +2
    Especially along ...
  • tracer
    tracer 4 February 2016 19: 21
    0
    Bayonet generally stripes.
  • Kostya Andreev
    Kostya Andreev 4 February 2016 21: 44
    +3
    Quote: gross kaput
    because the store on the arch changes with one hand, while the shutter does not need to be distorted when changing the used store - just press the delay key, and the store neck adds bonuses since you don’t need to hit the store’s front edge with the tooth of the store.

    Wow! And why didn’t Kalashnikov introduce a shutter lag, a store eject button and a store neck? One answer, our designers did not master such complex details. And did not guess what bonuses bring such bells and whistles!
    But on the other hand, our designers learned what disadvantages the M-16 has that remove all bonuses. For example: the cartridges have run out, the shutter is open, and at this moment you need to fall into the dirt, the shutter is shitty at Kalash’s Kalash, so the dirt will not get into the chamber, but with the M-16, everything will be filled in there, how will you remove it? As for the neck, when the dirt gets clogged there, the bonuses will decrease. Regarding getting into the front edge of the window, there is such an assembly assembly with eyes closed, there were no problems connecting the store, and even at night. the presence of a shutter on the right side of the Kalash is made in order to attach the store to turn the shutter. and in order to avoid this, you need to leave a cartridge in the chamber when firing, that of m-16, that of Kalash.
    As for the spring-loaded magazine, do not you think that the spring can weaken or accidentally be pressed and the magazine fall out?
    The M-16 has a pipochka on the side that is needed for forcing the cartridge into the chamber, if you remove the smart and beautiful name, it means that automation does not cope with its task. it’s like a bad car, to start it you need to push it (more than one car enthusiast does not brag about it and does not give out for its merits.
    And if you try to disassemble the shutter. then there are such small details that they can be very easily lost in the dark.
    To summarize, I like the M-16, it is very comfortable, everything is under your fingers, but in my eyes the disadvantages outweigh the advantages.
    Each weapon has its own disadvantages and advantages.
  • gross kaput
    gross kaput 4 February 2016 22: 49
    0
    Quote: Kostya Andreev
    Why didn’t Kalashnikov introduce a slide delay

    Because TTZ delay on the machine was not provided, as well as the bayonet smile
    Quote: Kostya Andreev
    store eject button

    Only the trouble is in We 16 there is no "magazine ejection" button - but it appeared on the AK-12, as well as the ЗЗ smile
    Quote: Kostya Andreev
    the cartridges ran out, the shutter is open, and at that moment you need to fall into the mud,

    Fly to the moon, kill the dragon, etc. Underline whatever applicable.
    Quote: Kostya Andreev
    the horseradish Kalash shutter is closed,

    The Kalash with the safety guard lowered had a decent constantly open slot for the platoon handle that was always open during the battle, and the MTK and the military understood all the evil of this decision and therefore on the experimental A-55 - the future AKM - a spring-loaded dust shield appeared, covering the slot in the lid and pushed by the handle the shutter during passage, but this decision did not go into the series - the main reason is that the shield itself could cause delays and the fuse with the shield could spontaneously change position during shaking and blows.
    Quote: Kostya Andreev
    As for the neck, when the dirt gets clogged there, the bonuses will decrease.

    Show me a soldier who in the b / d zone will carry weapons without a magazine - if there is one, dirt simply cannot get into the neck.
    Quote: Kostya Andreev
    Regarding getting into the front edge of the window, there is such an assembly with eyes closed exercise

    Where is such an exercise interesting?
    Quote: Kostya Andreev
    , there were no problems connecting the store

    There is such a concept of "combat stress", one of its manifestations is a sharp deterioration in fine motor skills and that simple but precise action that you did once in conditions of combat stress can turn into a problem - I myself did not really believe in this while, in a state of stress, equipping an automatic magazine - the action that I had done thousands of times before, I was not convinced that it exists and has a strong effect - more than half of the cartridges I had on the ground.
    Quote: Kostya Andreev
    and at night too. the presence of a shutter on the right side of the Kalash, made in order to connect the store, turn the shutter

    The right position of the cocking handle is made on a kalash only so that the weapon in the "on the chest on the belt" position does not hammer into the chest - the left handle is more convenient for reloading, but the We-16 on the drum has a handle sharpened for both hands. smile
    1. gross kaput
      gross kaput 4 February 2016 22: 50
      0
      Quote: Kostya Andreev
      and in order to avoid this, you need to leave a cartridge in the chamber when firing, that of m-16, that of Kalash.

      Do not tell me how in, not even in battle, but in a shooting range, precisely count 29 shots? laughing
      Quote: Kostya Andreev
      The M-16 has a pipochka on the side that is needed to force the cartridge into the chamber, if you remove the smart and beautiful name, it means that the automation can not cope with its task.

      After all, what kind of a byaka, when the chamber is closed or the stops of the receiver, it happens that the Kalash bolt does not open and is closed "from the boot", the We-16 platoon handle does not have a rigid connection with the frame, therefore the military insisted that in this case it should be possible to close shutter, just study the history of the subject about which you are trying to argue and everything will fall into place, by the way I will tell you a little secret even in the manual on We-14 it was indicated that after sending the cartridge into the chamber, you must hit the bolt handle with your hand.
      Quote: Kostya Andreev
      And if you try to disassemble the shutter. then there are such small details that they can be very easily lost in the dark.

      That's what kind of thing if you try to disassemble the AK shutter, you will find there the same number of small parts and a spring that will try to fly away - only the nuance is that with incomplete disassembly, the shutter does not disassemble, incomplete disassembly / assembly MKI is easier than AK with what the barrel can be clean from the treasury and monitor its condition in clearance. wink
      1. dvina71
        dvina71 4 February 2016 23: 12
        +1
        Quote: gross kaput
        After all, when the chamber is closed or the receiver stops, it happens that the Kalash bolt does not open and is closed "from the boot", the We-16 platoon handle does not have a rigid connection with the frame, so the military insisted that in this case it should be possible to close shutter, just study the history of the subject

        The history of the subject must be studied by you. AK no one pushes back when not enough, just we overrun the shutter and the curve cartridge ejects.
        What concerns the M-16 .. Well, what nonsense are you writing ..? In it, gas piston directly presses on the bolt mechanism (here it is a secret of better accuracy than AK). But ... originally it was a sports rifle, designed for very high-quality gunpowder and not very intensive use. War makes its own adjustments. Gunpowder is worse, soot quickly settles on the inside of the M-16, and finally the mechanism can no longer send the cartridge chamber, but for this the pimpochka exists ... to press manually.
        1. gross kaput
          gross kaput 4 February 2016 23: 41
          0
          Quote: dvina71
          Well what nonsense are you writing ..? In it, the gas piston directly presses on the bolt mechanism (here it is a secret of better accuracy than AK)

          Still more launched than I thought, do you have any idea about the structure of the subject you are trying to talk about? M-16 DOES NOT HAVE A GAS PISTON from the word at all, its automation works on direct gas supply to the bolt frame.
          Quote: dvina71
          War makes its own adjustments.

          You are trying to talk about things about which you don’t know anything at all - We-16 have been in service for 50 years and are not going to change it in the foreseeable future.
          1. dvina71
            dvina71 5 February 2016 00: 05
            +1
            Quote: gross kaput

            Still more launched than I thought, do you have any idea about the structure of the subject you are trying to talk about? M-16 DOES NOT HAVE A GAS PISTON from the word completely

            Well, in fact, I wrote about this .. Your sharp remark about my inaccuracy does not in any way cancel the fact that the M-16 pimp appeared precisely because of delays caused by powder deposits on the precharge mechanism. This is a fact, no matter what pictures you upload here.
            In ak, the gas piston is moved outside the bolt group and has considerable power. Which is the reason for the fantastic reliability of AK.
            1. gross kaput
              gross kaput 5 February 2016 00: 22
              0
              Quote: dvina71
              Your sharp remark about my inaccuracy does not in any way preclude the fact that the M-16 pimp appeared just because of delays caused by gunpowder soot on the precharge mechanism.

              There is only one fact - communication on the Internet does not require an instant response and allows you to check the information that you want to give out - but for some reason most do not use it fool
              Do you speak English? then find in the text the reason for the appearance of the rammer.
              1. dvina71
                dvina71 5 February 2016 02: 45
                0
                Quote: gross kaput
                Do you speak English? then find in the text the reason for the appearance of the rammer.

                Well? ..If the mechanical spring snaps and does not close the bolt, the soldier should be able to immediately correct the situation, without disassembling the device .. That is, in military weapons there is a NECESSITY to modify for automation?
                Well then this is not a military weapon ..
                Let's take it in order .. In the Second World War the Wehrmacht and the Red Army were armed with a gun, with a pistol cartridge, to get out of which at a distance of more than 100m was more likely luck .. And they fought .. Although the Red Army had a mosinka, the Wehrmacht had a Mauser. Reliable, accurate, killer and long-range. But no .. the density of fire was deciding, not the ability to accurately send a bullet at 500m.
                Somewhere from the end of the 43rd offensive of the Red Army began to look like this for 5-7 minutes, until the end of the artillery preparation, the soldiers rose from the trenches and went on the attack, with a brisk pace. A few tens of seconds after the artillery transferred the shaft to the second line, the Germans trying to get rid of 150mm blanks fell into the trenches of the Red Army infantry. The second line was mortar and sniper. Their task is to suppress the centers of resistance that survived under artillery processing. That is why in the SA a regular sniper received an SVD (automatic), because my grandfather told me how a platoon that he covered could not raise his head. Because in the store of his mosquito cartridges ran out, and new ones had to be stuffed one at a time. The Germans weren’t fools either, they knew this and simply waited for five shots, then they attacked the attackers. That's why the AK-47 appeared .. Lying in the mud, under the fire of the enemy bunker, the Red Army sodates could not suppress the bunker’s calculation with their PS and PPS, neither by range nor by power, but 7.62X39 was quite suitable for this. So, that in the armament structure of the motorized rifle units of the SA, AK, in all its forms, fit perfectly. But if you approach the personal weapons of a USA army soldier, in the sense of their methods of warfare, then the M-16 and all its descendants are quite happy with them. The most interesting thing will begin when the Yusa Marines encounter a structure of equal fire potential ..
                how often they will remember about this little one, and what they will do when the second unpleasantness, caused by a powder coating, happens .., namely, the jamming of the fired cartridge case .., it does not reach it.
                1. gross kaput
                  gross kaput 5 February 2016 10: 49
                  0
                  Quote: dvina71
                  If a mechanical spring does fail and does not close the bolt, the soldier should be able to immediately correct the situation, without disassembling the device .. That is, in military weapons there is a NECESSITY to modify for automation?
                  Well then this is not a military weapon ..

                  I will repeat once again before writing anything, check how it really is. We open the NSD for AK-74 and RPK-74 section of delays and their elimination, and we are surprised to see there that the shutter is not covered with what is connected and what is recommended? They associate it with a break in the return spring, it is recommended to disassemble the return mechanism and rearrange the wreckage "head to head" manual shutter. So following your logic, the AK-74 is not a combat weapon? And if you wind back a little? ask what changes were made to the A-55 (AKM) and why, they usually remember the compensator and the retarder, but few people know about the change
                  the pitch of the spiral when turning the shutter (one of the AK chips that increases its reliability) on the AK was 4mm per revolution on the AKM it became 8mm, the answer is extremely simple in the mid-50s, cartridges with a lacquered steel sleeve began to be produced and "signals from the field" about cases began immediately not closing the bolt as a result of a dispute between the ammunition and the designers, and it was decided to increase the cranking step, thereby reducing the effort on starting but increasing the amount of entry of the bolt lugs behind the liner stops.
                  Quote: dvina71
                  , and what will they do when the second trouble occurs, caused by a powder coating .., namely the jamming of the fired cartridge case .., you can’t get it with a little finger.

                  They themselves have come up with, or maybe still give a reference to how many shots this will happen?
        2. gross kaput
          gross kaput 4 February 2016 23: 59
          0
          Quote: dvina71
          AK no one pushes back when not enough, just we overrun the shutter and the curve cartridge ejects.

          You won’t believe that is exactly what they are doing on We-16 laughing nevertheless, a rammer is present there at the request of the military. laughing
      2. dvina71
        dvina71 4 February 2016 23: 15
        0
        Quote: gross kaput
        That's what kind of thing if you try to disassemble the AK shutter you will find there the same number of small parts and a spring that will try to fly away

        Well, what kind of nonsense again .. The rate of partial disassembly of AK in the region of 18s, in competitions I took apart for 12s. Hands remember. ))) The spring there is one and of very decent size, like all other details.
        1. gross kaput
          gross kaput 4 February 2016 23: 50
          -1
          Quote: dvina71
          The rate of partial disassembly of the AK in the region of 18s, in competitions I took apart for 12s. Hands remember. ))) The spring there is one and of a very decent size, like all other details.

          You don’t make me laugh anymore, but just start to make me angry - if you have seen AK once in your life, do not try to make yourself a super-warrior 99% that you did not serve in the army or it was something not far from the construction battalion, we still have KMB there were three drill lessons, charters, and incomplete assembly disassembly and even on the KMB even the most stupid reindeer herder was hammered as the parts of AK are properly called
          Quote: dvina71
          There is one spring
          called returnable, and there is also a "bolt carrier" such a piece of iron with a piston at the end laughing and such a smaller piece of iron that is inserted into it is the one that is smaller and called "SHUTTER" and does not understand if it is not completely disassembled. As a free educational program, incomplete disassembly of We-16
          In general, learn the mathematical part of a young man.
          1. dvina71
            dvina71 5 February 2016 00: 13
            0
            Quote: gross kaput
            You don't make me laugh anymore, you just start to make me angry

            There are pills..afabazole to help you.
            The design of the AK is much simpler than the M-16, a universally recognized fact. What AK can withstand ... enough and 10 shares for the failure of the M-16, is also a fact.
            Regardless of whether I know how the shutter frame is called or not. Remember what you need to do first to disassemble the M-16? And why is it not displayed on your photo?
            1. gross kaput
              gross kaput 5 February 2016 00: 25
              -1
              Quote: dvina71
              Remember what you need to do first to disassemble the M-16

              I already wrote to you - just check before posting the next sentence.
              1. dvina71
                dvina71 5 February 2016 02: 52
                -1
                Quote: gross kaput
                I already wrote to you -

                Well done .. put the correct photo. P4, showdown.
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. The comment was deleted.
            4. 2news
              2news 5 February 2016 00: 47
              -2
              Quote: dvina71
              That which will withstand AK ... will also take 10 shares for the failure of the M-16, also a fact.

              So this is a myth. Tests do not confirm this.
            5. The comment was deleted.
      3. Kostya Andreev
        Kostya Andreev 4 February 2016 23: 39
        0
        1. But couldn’t they upgrade for decades?
        2. when no arguments cling to words.,
        3. there is nothing to answer, the dragons of the moon went into play.
        4 read carefully, the chamber is closed. And what you call this receiver, there is dirt and, well, to hell with it.
        5. Dirt always penetrates everywhere and at any time, for example, at the time of changing the store.
        6. do this exercise so blindfold, and begin to disassemble the weapon, the main thing is to put the details in order. Try it for you.
        7. friends and colleagues who participated. They did not discuss such subtle matters, maybe it depends on a person.
        8. You are mistaken. The store is changing like that. Hold the forearm with your left hand, attach the store with your right. At this moment, the right hand is under the shutter handle, the handle is pulled back, the right hand on the trigger is released and released, ready to shoot, it’s strange that you don’t know such things.
        9. I liked the grip under both hands.
        10. ammunition counts are easy in a shooting range, at first I wondered how the leader knew how many rounds I had. Then he learned himself, it just seems like continuous crackling, and in the hostilities lay tracer cartridges, for example, every tenth. But the comrades said, and so learn to consider.
        11. the difference is that in Kalash, this is an accident that can be eliminated by the use of brute force .. And in m-16, the regularity and depravity of the scheme, for the elimination of which pimpochka was invented.
        12. Maybe, but the search for some kind of dowels was deposited in memory.
        In short, the M-16 does not have such advantages, before Kalash, so that it becomes a super-duper. I like the M-16, it is very comfortable. And I repeat once again that your comment indicates that each weapon has advantages and disadvantages. And our debate with you is ready to turn into one of the many initiates "who is cooler than Kalash or M-16."
        I expressed my thoughts.
        1. 2news
          2news 4 February 2016 23: 57
          -1
          Quote: Kostya Andreev
          In short, the M-16 does not have such advantages, before Kalash, so that it becomes a super-duper.

          There is one "little thing". The effective range of the M16A2 is about 450 m. This is a full-fledged army individual automatic weapon.
          The effective range of the AK-74 is approximately 350 m. This is a very good assault rifle. But this is not even a minus automatic rifle.
          In addition, the AK-74 has serious problems with the balance of the mechanism. And from this, with the accuracy of fire. And also ... the list goes on.
          Here, for example, you have a plate that characterizes the barrel, cartridge and partially (very far from completely) the gas engine of American and Soviet automatic machines. It’s easy to see that AK is just a failure. And the AK-74 against the older M16A1 does not shine, because worse than her.
          If we consider the data of automatic fire (i.e. the entire gas engine is involved), then everything is even worse. With AK-74 balancing, everything is rather sad (actually, this is the reason for the less powerful cartridge, and, as a result, the insufficient effective destruction range). There can’t even be a conversation about AK, there the recoil momentum is more than 74 times that of AK-1,5.
        2. gross kaput
          gross kaput 5 February 2016 00: 15
          0
          Quote: Kostya Andreev
          2. when no arguments cling to words.,

          So it is you, unfortunately, clinging to words, and in fact there is only one conclusion - you didn’t serve, didn’t participate, didn’t shoot - and you know no worse than me that this is true.
          Quote: Kostya Andreev
          . friends and colleagues who participated.

          told you tales, and surely all as one served in the "secret special forces"? laughing
          Quote: Kostya Andreev
          ammunition counts easily in a shooting range, at first I wondered how the leader knew how many rounds I had. Then he learned
          Easy when three rounds are fired single laughing
          Do not be offended, but we have different weight categories, you are unfortunately an amateur, of those who are called "sofa shooters", while for some reason you think that everyone here is the same - believe me, this is far from being enough for both former and current employees and military personnel.
          1. Kostya Andreev
            Kostya Andreev 5 February 2016 00: 36
            0
            You know better from the cellar!
            Yes, the categories are different, I admit. I see that in front of me is a professional who, the store, attach a big problem. but I will not characterize professionalism.
            The conversation was about m-16, what I wrote, you could not refute. it is a fact. When a person has nothing to answer usually begin, accusations of dilettantism. Nevertheless, thanks for the time spent usefully.
            1. gross kaput
              gross kaput 5 February 2016 00: 44
              -1
              Quote: Kostya Andreev
              I see that in front of me is a professional who, the store, attach a big problem.

              Young man, just look at the weapons of IPSCniks - almost all AK-shaped ones used in competitions have a store neck - probably because they don’t get into the receiver with a store?
              And they put the platoon handles on the left side probably because it is easier and faster to reload with the right hand?
            2. gross kaput
              gross kaput 5 February 2016 01: 13
              0
              Quote: Kostya Andreev
              I see that in front of me is a professional

              You can count whatever you want, in the next topic there was a photo of the weapon that I now own 2 SKS and SVT - on average I burn 200 rounds of them per month, I served in the military in 95-97 in the Marine Corps, then worked in the Ministry of Internal Affairs as an armament inspector for ten years / firearms instructor, but in general I have been fond of firearms since the age of 13, I bought all the books now the Internet helps a lot, so I judge about weapons both from a theoretical and practical point of view and for a long time have not suffered from "cliché thinking" like We-16 d ... "black widow" and so on or AK is the best in the world because it is Soviet - each of them has its own advantages and disadvantages, but both models are worthy of each other, therefore, they will remain in service for a long time, and couch warriors on the Internet will continue to fight on the topic of AK VS M-16 and in a whisper tell each other "secret knowledge" that the AK will be pulled off the attacker "and We-16 is so bad and unreliable that you can't even shoot yourself with it. laughing
  • Kostya Andreev
    Kostya Andreev 4 February 2016 22: 57
    0
    Quote: 2news
    And it’s written specially for you in the same comment that it’s not necessary to shoot at all to understand the marksman. Especially from cannons.


    According to your logic, for understanding s.e.c..s., s..e.c. not needed.

    You grabbed the tops, but didn't get to the roots.
    1. 2news
      2news 4 February 2016 23: 44
      -2
      Quote: Kostya Andreev
      According to your logic, for understanding s.e.c..s., s..e.c. not needed.

      Do not confuse th with ... compasses. These are different things.
      Quote: Kostya Andreev
      You grabbed the tops, but didn't get to the roots.

      May God grant you to master at least part of what I know about ballistics. Therefore, your opinion on this subject is not very interesting to me.
  • boroda64
    boroda64 4 February 2016 23: 17
    0
    .
    - with such bayonets - I- / we /
    = on duty on the company
    - there was a carry kit
    - so as not to open the arms ..
  • tracer
    tracer 4 February 2016 23: 54
    +1
    And along the way we discussed the bayonets. Soon we will switch to the ballistics of the promising 6.5 cartridge. I'm interested in what kind of scoundrel I was minus. That you did not believe that the bayonet is sharpened in normal hands? Or that they give a bayonet knife for demobilization? I would say so. Where it is "given", many will never want to.
    1. 2news
      2news 5 February 2016 00: 13
      0
      Quote: tracer
      Soon we will move on to the ballistics of the promising 6.5 cartridge.

      Is this Hryundel? He, as he has been "promising" for many years (12, to be exact), will remain so. It's bullshit. For boys of primary school age. It can be used, of course, but only for special operations. Not for mainstream army weapons.
      1. tracer
        tracer 5 February 2016 00: 29
        0
        Oops about "Hrendolf" the opponent read .. directly suppressed with intekt .... No, I meant an abandoned Soviet development that was again taken out from behind the chrome ..
  • Kostya Andreev
    Kostya Andreev 4 February 2016 23: 56
    0
    [quote = 2news] And what is incomprehensible? AK assault rifle, it is actually an assault rifle only at a range of 100-150 m.


    only tests will eliminate the dispute, step back 500 meters and ask you to shoot from the inaccurate, ersatz weapons that the Holodran world is armed with. Perhaps you are weak? Imagine how you change your mind about the weapons of the Holodtrans. you don’t need to talk about what you don’t know (by the way, and on other branches you behave defiantly vulgar and boorish, I have to remind you that on this site an argumentative defense of your opinion is welcomed!
    Yeah, where do we go to ballistic theorists, we practice more and more.
    What does ballistics have to do with what you compose.
    1. 2news
      2news 5 February 2016 00: 06
      -3
      Quote: Kostya Andreev
      only tests will eliminate the dispute,

      Open NSD. Each has a shooting table (at the end). There are reflected 100-fold tests. Therefore, do not reinvent the wheel.
      Quote: Kostya Andreev
      and ask you to shoot from the inaccurate ersatz weapon with which the Holodran world is armed

      Oh, well, tantrums have begun ... I will even be against the slingshot. Advise everyone to arm slingshots?
      Quote: Kostya Andreev
      By the way, you behave defiantly vulgar and boorish on other branches

      You still cry.
      If you do not taste what you have already chewed and put on a plate, then study. And do not hysteria, like a college student.
      1. tracer
        tracer 5 February 2016 00: 35
        0
        Hysterical you are here. Nobody chose you in "sensei".
        1. 2news
          2news 5 February 2016 00: 41
          -3
          Quote: tracer
          You hysteria here prskrashchayte.

          Really? Does the eye mow?
          Quote: tracer
          Nobody chose you in "sensei".

          Don't like it, don't read it. So "boots" and stay.
    2. dvina71
      dvina71 5 February 2016 00: 21
      0
      Quote: Kostya Andreev
      only tests will eliminate the dispute, step back 500 meters and ask you to shoot from inaccurate

      Well, to be correct, it’s already impossible to aim at such a distance from an open sight.
      1. 2news
        2news 5 February 2016 00: 34
        -2
        Quote: dvina71
        It is difficult to do at a distance of over 300m, these are the features of human vision.

        400 m. And all army weapons in the world on an open sights are given based on a range of 400 m.
        It was only the USSR with AK that perverted 300 m (like smart Germans did it, and we need it too). And with the AK-74 (forcedly unable to balance a stronger recoil momentum) at 350 m.
      2. gross kaput
        gross kaput 5 February 2016 13: 40
        0
        Quote: dvina71
        Well, to be correct, it’s already impossible to aim at such a distance from an open sight.

        And if you open the NSD on the AKM, then "suddenly" it turns out that to hit the target "running figure" when firing from a stop at a distance of 300 meters, 1 (one) cartridge is required and for 500 2 cartridges.
  • Kostya Andreev
    Kostya Andreev 5 February 2016 01: 18
    +1
    Quote: gross kaput
    Young man, just look at the weapons of IPSCniks - almost all AK-shaped ones used in competitions have a store neck - probably because they don’t get into the receiver with a store?
    And they put the platoon handles on the left side probably because it is easier and faster to reload with the right hand?


    my very young and very naive friend is athletes, you can’t compare the weapons of athletes and the weapons of the military, they have different tasks. Athletes can hang what they want, if they are not chosen correctly they won’t be killed. I will give you an example, although it somewhat deviates from the topic, take a modern sports bow with all the bells and whistles, and put a combat bow nearby. there is nothing superfluous on the combat bow, because the millennia have removed everything superfluous, which interferes with survival.

    Of course, I cannot compare with you in professionalism and knowledge, but the reloading on the left side was done by fellow Jews on the "Galile". And the photo shows the handle on the right side. But I think these are trifles, the requirements change, and the technique changes too.
    You know a lot, but your knowledge is not systematized, most likely a lack of education. And try to avoid derogatory treatment in the future. it does not honor you and testifies to the immaturity of the mind.
    The categories are really different if the professional compares sports and military weapons.
    Nevertheless, there was no refutation of my comments on the M-16.
    I say goodbye to this.
    1. gross kaput
      gross kaput 5 February 2016 11: 55
      0
      Quote: Kostya Andreev
      Nevertheless, there was no refutation of my comments on the M-16.

      Remarks? what kind?
      Quote: Kostya Andreev
      why didn’t Kalashnikov introduce a slide delay, a store eject button and a store neck?

      Repeat to you? See TTZ contest 46 and everything will become clear - was not required. It was required - we look at the AK-12 already adopted for service and we see there both the shutter lag and the magazine reset lever (namely, the pushing magazine lever and not the latch as in the Arch) and the rear platoon handle and translator of the AP-15 type - probably our military with 46 years are very stupid?
      Regarding the neck - I understand that you only heard about the AK and We-16 - I will tell you a terrible secret besides them there is still a lot of things - probably the designers of FN-FNC, SCAR, G-36 and at the same time our creators AC / BCC / SR- 3 forgot to find out from you that the neck is evil and is not applicable to military weapons laughing
      Quote: Kostya Andreev
      You know a lot, but your knowledge is not systematized, most likely a lack of education.

      I see you and shine with education - especially in the field of shooting.
      Quote: Kostya Andreev
      And the photo shows the handle on the right side.

      Once again, you demonstrate a rare desire to learn about the subject before drawing conclusions
  • Kostya Andreev
    Kostya Andreev 5 February 2016 01: 35
    0
    Quote: gross kaput
    I judge about weapons both from a theoretical and practical point of view, and for a long time I have not suffered from "cliched thinking" like We-16 sad Mr.


    Show me where I wrote that the M-16 is a dull g, I said that in my opinion it has the following disadvantages. and I listed them. I immediately said that it was very comfortable, and did not say that Kalashnikov was better than anyone, I said that each weapon has its own advantages and disadvantages.
    And it is impossible to pour mud on the Kalash and admire the M-16, just as it is impossible to do it. and I'm not a hurray patriot. just trying to be objective. and in disputes, I often intercede for m-16 when they start to throw mud at it. One of my arguments is: "The guys in the United States are a rich country, the answer is yes, can't they really make or buy a good copy, but they use d --- ohm.
    My dream, a weapon that will be convenient and accurate like the M-16, but at the same time reliable as a Kalash.
    I repeat once more, our conversation gave me satisfaction, despite some misunderstandings.
  • Understanding
    Understanding 5 February 2016 05: 08
    0
    Quote: ShadowCat
    The knife is primarily a tool, the last - edged weapons. ;)

    Stupidity. There were always knives for combat and for work. Those. tool and weapon. As well as axes and hammers for example.