Military Review

Device for giving the projectile (bullet) rotational motion

115
The invention relates to military equipment and can be used in a smoothbore shooting, pneumatic weapons, artillery and in other devices where throwing a ballistic projectile under gas pressure is required, as well as in existing rifled weapons to increase the speed of rotation of the projectile or bullet. A device for imparting rotational motion to a projectile in a smoothbore weapon is a section of the weapon barrel or a nozzle to the barrel having side slots located at an angle to the barrel channel. Powder gases, pushing the projectile along the bore and reaching the device, due to the presence of slots in the device, exit these slots, creating simultaneously a lateral draft for the projectile. In this case, the projectile makes an axial rotational movement. EFFECT: simplification of production of weapon barrels, increasing the operational resource of barrels, increasing accuracy and range of fire, as well as increasing the penetration ability of a projectile or bullet. 3 ill.
The invention relates to military technology and can be used in a smooth-bore small arms, airguns, artillery and other devices that require throwing a ballistic projectile under the pressure of gases.


A device for tightening a projectile or bullet, known as "rifling" in the gun barrel channel to give a projectile or bullet rotational movement, is known, which ensures its stability on the trajectory, flight range and accuracy of fire.

The disadvantage of the prototype is the difficulty of making rifling, as well as the fact that a bullet or projectile, passing rifling, experiences considerable resistance to the friction force, which negatively affects the durability of the barrel, the accuracy of the fight, and also requires an increase in the powder sample. In addition, the bullet, passing the bore, on the departure is deformed due to the interaction with rifling, which also adversely affects the ballistic characteristics.

Device for giving the projectile (bullet) rotational motion



The invention solves the following problems.

1. The possibility of giving the projectile or bullet rotational motion without the use of rifling.

2. 3 is a significant simplification of gun barrel production.

3. Increased accuracy and range.

4. Reducing the powder charge, which should have a positive effect on saving the production of cartridges, reducing the recoil of weapons during firing, increasing the life of parts and mechanisms of the weapon, and the resource of the barrel.

5. The possibility of using all-metal shells or brass, copper, steel bullets, which will positively affect penetration.

The technical result obtained from the invention, is to give the projectile or bullet rotational motion in a smooth-bore weapon.

This technical result is achieved by the fact that in order to give the projectile or bullet a rotary motion, the pressure of powder gases or other gases is used by means of special side slots in the device. Under the term “other gases”, the author assumes any other gases through which pressure the projectile or bullet is thrown.

The claimed invention can be applied in small arms, air guns, artillery and other devices that require throwing a ballistic projectile under the pressure of gases. In addition, this invention can be applied in an existing rifle to increase the speed of rotational movement of the projectile or bullet.

Technical solutions with features that distinguish the claimed solution from the prototype are unknown. This suggests that the proposed solution is new and involves an inventive step.

The appended invention is illustrated by drawings, where in fig.1 shows a cross section of the device. On fig.2 shows the cross section of the device and the direction of rotation of the projectile or bullet, as well as the direction of movement of the powder or other gases, where: 1 - the device itself; 2 - projectile or bullet; 3 - the direction of movement of the powder or other gases; 4 - the direction of the projectile or bullet rotation. FIG. 3 shows the device in perspective.

A device for giving a projectile or a bullet a rotational movement is a section of the barrel or a nozzle to the barrel, having side slots arranged at an angle to the bore of the barrel.

The device works as follows.

Powder or other gases, pushing a projectile or a bullet through the bore and reaching the device, due to the presence of side slots in the device, exit these slots, creating simultaneously a lateral rotational thrust for the projectile or bullet, the projectile or bullet performs axial rotational movement.

Using the term “slots”, the author was guided by a technical dictionary, namely: “Slots are holes that are usually oblong in shape”. Since the term “usually” is not exclusive, the author assumes that these holes may have another shape.

A device for imparting a projectile or bullet rotational motion, characterized in that the axial rotation of the projectile or bullet is achieved by the pressure of the powder gases using the side slots in the barrel or the nozzle, these slots are angled to the bore.

Author:
Originator:
http://www.findpatent.ru/patent/254/2540220.html
115 comments
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  1. Consul-t
    Consul-t 30 January 2016 07: 48
    +7
    The author of the video could not normally shoot the video? Lighting to deliver.
    Some kind of basement invention. On the knee.
    More serious tests are needed.
    And the author himself confirms that it was made in a handicraft way and on his knee.
    Embarrassment takes me into usefulness, but who knows ...
    1. renics
      renics 30 January 2016 20: 45
      0
      The point is not in the lighting technique of the invention, but in theoretically correct calculations. giving a certain advantage in the technology of manufacturing and operating weapons and ammunition. If the benefits are obvious, all this is recognized.
      1. gridasov
        gridasov 30 January 2016 21: 07
        +1
        I don’t know about the Russians, but for the Americans now not only the invention itself matters, but the justification of the processes it carries out. The conversation is of course not about trinkets. But the methods of such justification are still on the old foundations. Therefore, it is not the "information" itself that costs money, but its analysis.
  2. Nikolay71
    Nikolay71 30 January 2016 08: 08
    +4
    In-in, I am also plagued by vague doubts.
    1. code54
      code54 30 January 2016 10: 27
      +2
      Something like that ... I am not strong in such sciences, but unless in Figure 2 the Element -2 (a bullet apparently) should not spin in the other direction ??? and then, promotion due to air being pushed through the barrel by a bullet, perhaps? ... II.I. .... doubts, doubts ...
  3. My address
    My address 30 January 2016 08: 13
    18
    The expression "at an angle to the bore" is incorrect. Best suited "tangentially to the axis". There will clearly be insufficient torque. But that's not the point.
    But the fact is that the author looked at the problem from an unexpected angle. I was interested in the problems of technical innovation in the West. So it turned out that in very serious firms in a large series is not more than a third of serious corporate developments. I do not think that we are different. No more than a third of branded! And how many ideas are eliminated? But without initial ideas, there is nothing to choose from!
    It is possible that the review will be negative. But this is no reason to stop inventing and offering the original.
    hi auto RU.
  4. Stinger
    Stinger 30 January 2016 08: 15
    0
    The idea is clear. But will a bullet spin, especially a spherical one? Need a test. The publication in the press says that the author is unable to push his invention, if it is such. Is there a patent?
  5. Free wind
    Free wind 30 January 2016 08: 30
    10
    I laughed with pleasure .... It’s necessary to come up with this, probably someone else will believe ...
    1. gridasov
      gridasov 30 January 2016 18: 48
      -3
      And you, dear, take and change the surface of the bullet according to the level of electrical conductivity or ionization of one or another material that you will use. And each type of such a bullet will fly not only closer or further, but also with different ballistic trajectories. Therefore, you can spin the bullet on a smooth barrel, and you can stop the rotation and cutting.
      1. gridasov
        gridasov 30 January 2016 23: 37
        +1
        A person is distinguished from animals by the pursuit of excellence and the approach to the recognition of truths. All this comes through honesty, sincerity and individuality of opinion. When a person unites in a herd, it makes him similar to these animals.
      2. visitork67
        visitork67 31 January 2016 00: 32
        +1
        Duc also in the return line can be twisted. Since the right rifling is a special case of rifling in the general philosophical sense of the word. After three glasses, you can wrap this poor bullet in such a way that no one will remember why the shot was fired.
        1. gridasov
          gridasov 31 January 2016 00: 50
          0
          The process algorithm cannot be violated. You can’t add anything superfluous, but you can’t miss the necessary.
  6. Tester
    Tester 30 January 2016 08: 44
    +2
    The idea is of interest, but most likely for hunting weapons. The time of the impact of the rotational moment and the magnitude of the moment itself, due to the friction of the gases on the surface, is clearly not enough to provide the required gyroscopic stability of the bullet and, especially, a projectile of any caliber. When shooting at short distances, perhaps stability will be enough, but experiments are needed. Summary: I would accept it as a useful model.
    1. lysyj bob
      lysyj bob 30 January 2016 11: 55
      +6
      Quote: Tester
      When shooting at short distances, perhaps stability will be enough

      When shooting at short distances, and in the forest it is not more than 30 meters, a bullet fired from a smooth barrel or from a "paradox" behaves steadily enough to invent something new. At 50-120 meters - there is the same "paradox", further - rifled barrels. Everything has already been invented, tested, technologies worked out. This "invention" will not make a revolution, and the principle of operation is questionable.
      The author, of course, is a "plus" for his creative search, but the direction, in my opinion, is a dead end. The hunter-innovator himself, I use the "paradox", my own bullet.
    2. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 30 January 2016 18: 16
      +3
      Quote: Tester
      due to friction of gases on the surface, it is clearly not enough to ensure the required gyroscopic stability of a bullet and, especially, a shell of any caliber.

      For such an invention, by calculations and samples, it is also necessary to develop a special bullet for smooth-bore weapons. And so, the colleague is right:
      Quote: lysyj bob
      When shooting at short distances, and in the forest it is not more than 30 meters, a bullet fired from a smooth barrel or from a "paradox" behaves steadily enough to invent something new. At 50-120 meters - there is the same "paradox", further - rifled barrels. Everything has already been invented, tested, technologies worked out. This "invention" will not make a revolution, and the principle of operation is questionable.
  7. La-5
    La-5 30 January 2016 08: 53
    +5
    For a smooth-bore hunting barrel, there are nozzles of the Paradox type, for everything else there are normal rifled trunks and there is no need to reinvent the wheel.
    1. Yegorchik
      Yegorchik 30 January 2016 12: 06
      0
      Quote: La-5
      For a smooth-bore hunting barrel, there are nozzles of the Paradox type, for everything else there are normal rifled trunks and there is no need to reinvent the wheel.

      The paradox is rare slag, and if this thing works then the uncle of genius does not have enough torque, can be strengthened by previous decisions on this topic.
      1. saygon66
        saygon66 30 January 2016 22: 30
        -1
        -Yes, it's just made with crooked hands ... Isn't it crazy to write in the operating manual: "... check the alignment of the nozzle to the barrel ..."?
  8. lysyj bob
    lysyj bob 30 January 2016 09: 29
    +4
    It is impossible to make the entire barrel using this technology. the slots will affect the strength of the barrel, and if you increase the thickness of the barrel walls or use IT as an insert, it will lead to an increase in the mass of the weapon. Use as a nozzle is also dubious, because due to the short length of the product, the gases simply do not have time to exert the proper effort to fully unwind a smooth bullet. Making bullets with a longitudinal notch increases the cost of cartridges. Conclusion - for the "paradox" or bullets with plumage, this invention, in my opinion, is not a competitor. For rifled barrels - even more so.
    1. AK64
      AK64 30 January 2016 19: 25
      0
      You can’t do the whole trunk using this technology. slots will affect the strength of the barrel,


      Yes, not because: you can’t do it because all the gas will be taken and leaked. Or flow away. In general, there will be no gas left to push the bullet.

      And ... well, you can’t create in this way a slightest acceptable gyroscopic moment.
  9. Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 30 January 2016 09: 31
    +3
    I have a better idea - you need to stamp the propeller-shaped bottom of the bullet. Or a turbine one, it’s not the main thing, the main thing is that the gas would spin the bullet. Author, take it and push it. laughing
    1. code54
      code54 30 January 2016 10: 34
      +2
      notches have been made on the shells for a long time, I think the path is not a problem either! But they do not, so apparently "the game is not worth the candle"
    2. Yegorchik
      Yegorchik 30 January 2016 12: 07
      +1
      It has long been patented.
    3. AK64
      AK64 30 January 2016 19: 16
      +1
      I have a better idea - you need to stamp the propeller-shaped bottom of the bullet. Or a turbine one, it’s not the main thing, the main thing is that the gas would spin the bullet. Author, take it and push it.

      And you are late for 200 years with a hook: bullets with a turbine, there were such. Exhausting gases spun a bullet.

      As for the invention: do not create a gyroscopic moment in this way. In this way, the moment will be a little bit.
  10. Fitter65
    Fitter65 30 January 2016 09: 46
    +6
    "... And why a pig-wheel apparatus?
    -So in fact a bullet with a screw rushing !!!. "
  11. tolancop
    tolancop 30 January 2016 09: 51
    12
    I read it ... Then I looked at the calendar ... no, not April 1 ...

    The author, IMHO, skipped physics at school. Due to what the bullet will gain rotation, where is the alignment of the forces acting on the bullet (projectile)?
    About reducing the amount of powder in the case of using pribluda is generally enchanting: if you let some of the powder gases "on the side" (for spinning), then where are the savings ...
    About deformation of a bullet from the impact of rifling, generally his eyes climbed up: he saw the BU bullets, but somehow did not notice a large deformation from the rifling.

    If the author wants to receive (and pay) a patent - a flag in his hands, whatever the child would have fun ...
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 30 January 2016 10: 21
      +3
      "Of course, it is still necessary to check how the bullet will (and will it?), Spin, spin, ..."; but didn't the author deserve at least some moral support for his "technical imagination"? will "throw" into this idea? Type of "turbine" on the "bottom" of the bullet, so that the powder gases, flowing through the "slots" of the nozzle, "hit" on the turbine blades ..... or "something like that"?
      1. lysyj bob
        lysyj bob 30 January 2016 10: 48
        +7
        Well, all the stray at the bottom of the bullet spins not powder gases, but an incoming air stream. Most smoothbore bullets are built on this principle. Gunpowder gases cannot spin anything inside the barrel, because without going out, they exert the same pressure in all directions and over the entire plumage area. Moreover, bullets in the smoothbore are charged through a wad or wad container to improve obturation.
        1. bocsman
          bocsman 30 January 2016 12: 39
          +2
          Quote: lysyj bob
          Well, all the stray at the bottom of the bullet spins not powder gases, but an incoming air stream. Most smoothbore bullets are built on this principle. Gunpowder gases cannot spin anything inside the barrel, because without going out, they exert the same pressure in all directions and over the entire plumage area. Moreover, bullets in the smoothbore are charged through a wad or wad container to improve obturation.

          And plus I’ll add samples of gunpowder and, accordingly, the speed of a bullet from a smooth-bore (hunting) weapon is not enough to spin a bullet due to various notches, turbines, etc. Well, and if we follow the logic of the prodigy, the inventor’s pardon then the muzzle nozzle-compensator should stop the bullet!
        2. Nikolaevich I
          Nikolaevich I 30 January 2016 13: 51
          +3
          As Comrade Saakhov said: you are saying everything correctly ... on the one hand; and on the other .... "Look" the bullet of Lorenz (1850) .... according to Lorentz's idea, "pribluda on the bottom of the bullets spin up ...... powder gases"! In addition to the Lorenz bullet, there are other designs of bullets, unwound by powder gases in the gun barrel ...
          1. Vladimirets
            Vladimirets 30 January 2016 18: 31
            +1
            Quote: Nikolaevich I
            there are other designs of bullets, spun powder gases in the gun barrel ....

            As a colleague correctly noted
            Quote: lysyj bob
            they do not spin powder gases, but an incoming air stream. Most smoothbore bullets are built on this principle.

            Turbine-type bullets for smooth-bore weapons are geared specifically to the air stream (therefore, they are quite demanding on drilling the bore and charge) or on the bore (Paradox or Lancaster).
            1. saygon66
              saygon66 30 January 2016 22: 36
              0
              - If I am not mistaken, in the Lancaster system, the grooves are made at the beginning of the trunk, i.e. the swirling bullet then moves along the smooth trunk, the paradox at the end of the trunk ... a soft lead bullet simply pushes through the paradox without twisting ...
              1. lysyj bob
                lysyj bob 30 January 2016 23: 41
                +1
                Quote: saygon66
                a soft lead bullet just pushes through the paradox without twisting ..

                It spins perfectly, believe me ...
                1. saygon66
                  saygon66 30 January 2016 23: 49
                  0
                  - Something I don’t really have ... A short paradox on 410-ke ... and even it underestimates significantly ... removed at all.
              2. Vladimirets
                Vladimirets 31 January 2016 08: 19
                0
                Quote: saygon66
                a soft lead bullet just pushes through the paradox without twisting ...

                Under the paradox, as a rule, their own bullets and slightly underestimated samples of gunpowder are used so that the bullet does not tear off the rifling.
            2. Nikolaevich I
              Nikolaevich I 31 January 2016 06: 13
              +1
              Oh Lord, how much can you explain that I "take" the wrong "special case" where "a bullet of the turbine type + air flow"! And another "special case", where: "a bullet of a turbine type + powder gases"! But, judging by the "comments", this particular "case" is unknown or little known (and therefore is not understood (!) By the "commentators"! Let "most of the bullets for a smoothbore" spin up "not the powder gases, but the incoming air stream!" then I "emphasize" on another option!
          2. lysyj bob
            lysyj bob 30 January 2016 19: 54
            +2
            The Lorenz bullet is an unsuccessful experience, which went down in the history of weapons only due to innovation. Anyone who knows physics will convince you that in a confined space gas can spin anything, it needs a gas flow.
    2. Bayonet
      Bayonet 30 January 2016 20: 52
      +3
      Quote: tolancop
      Due to which the bullet will gain rotation,

      This thing will give the barrel a rotational moment (!!!) but not a bullet! In addition, the rupture of the trunk in this place is not excluded. Here is an example of a 12 gauge saiga -
      1. saygon66
        saygon66 30 January 2016 22: 38
        +1
        - It’s not otherwise, buckshot sadanuli ... and the nozzle-simulator of a flame arrester is designed only for a bullet! Yes, again, what was there with alignment ...
  12. Nikolaevich I
    Nikolaevich I 30 January 2016 10: 01
    +4
    And I liked the "device" very much! And I'm surprised that the author was "waxed". Of course, we still need to check how the bullet will (and whether) "spin and spin"; but it is already clear that there are cockroaches in the inventor's head Thus, I am glad to "get acquainted" with a person with a good technical "imagination"; without which an engineer will never become an inventor! I "approve" the author also because in his youth I myself was engaged in similar "projects". ( For example: when I read about the Crimean War of 1853-54 and learned that one of the reasons for the defeat of the Russian army was the backwardness in armament / muskets versus fittings /, I began to "think" how it was possible to increase the range of smooth-bore rifles with the help of " simple options "-oh, how many different bullets were" invented "/! /) By the way, a similar idea is proposed in a specially designed bullet: if the" slots "in the nozzle are" replaced "with" nozzle "holes in the bullet, then the" cut "is bullet will be extremely similar to the "cut" of the described nozzle. "Observe Xia "options for the practical use of the attachment .... first of all, for the" modernization "of hunting rifles (or" suddenly "" self-made guerrillas "will say" thank you "!)
  13. uzer 13
    uzer 13 30 January 2016 11: 08
    +3
    This device is nothing more than a slotted compensator. It is possible in this way to reduce muzzle pressure, which in itself will improve the accuracy of fire. The bullet will not twist until it is made in the form of a turbine, and, given the pressure drop in the direction of travel, the project is erroneous. To make ordinary rifling will cost much cheaper than cutting oblique cracks and making bullets of an intricate design. We should thank the author for the experimental work done. We are waiting for new masterpieces of technical creativity from him.
    1. Siberia 9444
      Siberia 9444 30 January 2016 11: 53
      +2
      To reduce pressure, make holes in the trunks in both rifled and smooth-bore. He got a certain DTK.
  14. Karabas Barabas
    30 January 2016 11: 48
    +2
    Guys all the comments I will try to give in the second part of the video
    1. Vovanya
      Vovanya 27 January 2018 20: 35
      0
      Everything was waiting for the author to compare the holes from the bullets when shooting with and without a nozzle - this would be indicative, but it did not happen. Unfortunately, this nozzle will not spin a bullet, if only because the nozzle cracks interact only with those propellant gases that go behind the bullet. And there will be no overtaking of the bullet by the gases due to the presence of gaps on the nozzle through which the gases will immediately escape into the atmosphere, so there will be no tangible impact on the bullet shell by the gases.
  15. bbss
    bbss 30 January 2016 12: 06
    +1
    Simply make the nozzle rifled.
    1. alpamys
      alpamys 30 January 2016 12: 50
      0
      Simply make the nozzle rifled.


      I did this with a gas pistol, it shoots normally, though the loading is complicated, it is always necessary to twist.
  16. Alex_T
    Alex_T 30 January 2016 12: 26
    +2
    New ideas, it is always interesting and thanks for this to the author of this device. To assess the tumbling of a bullet, it is more visual to use not one board at a fixed distance, but a set of punched paper shields, for example every 3-5m.
    In this device, it is not clear for what surfaces on the bullet the powder gases will spin it up to a sufficient speed (2-3 thousand r / s)? Let me remind you that the "paradox" attachments for a smoothbore only improve the accuracy of a smooth barrel for caliber bullets, but with a normal rifled barrel the "paradox" does not compete in accuracy.
    The advantages of the "paradox" over this device are that the bullet is untwisted by steel grooves, and not due to the friction of the powder gases on the surface of the bullet.
    For reference, the rotation speed of the AKM bullet:
    The pitch of the rifling 240 mm, the initial velocity of the bullet 715 m / s.
    Rotational speed: 715 / 0.24 = 2980 r / s = 179 000 r / min
    Thus, the nozzle should spin the bullet to a speed of 2980 r / s. Can the proposed nozzles do this and at what expense?
  17. akm8226
    akm8226 30 January 2016 12: 34
    +2
    From my point of view, the duration of the torque on the bullet is clearly not enough to confidently stabilize the bullet in flight. Judging by the photo, the duration of the impact of the cut section on the bullet is equal to (approximately, if the length of the slot, for example, is 15 cm) using the AK-12 as an example:
    0,15:900=5,55х10-4 с.
    In such a short time, the exhaust will not have any tangible effect.
    1. Karabas Barabas
      30 January 2016 12: 44
      0
      Let's think logically? ... the gases at the Aksu time to take the bolt, but the bullet, which is much smaller in mass, and moreover, for the same period of time, they will not have time to twist it? ...
      1. Alex_T
        Alex_T 30 January 2016 13: 17
        +2
        Let's! Powder gases press on the end of a gas piston with a diameter of 12 mm. the pressure of the powder gases at the exit of the barrel is about 39 MPa. The force exerted by the powder gases on the piston end = Piston area (m ^ 2) * gas pressure (H / m ^ 2) = ((3.14 * 0,012 ^ 2) / 4) * 39 * 10 ^ 6 = 4408.5 N = 449,8 kgf
        And for what area will the bullet unwind?
  18. schizophrenic
    schizophrenic 30 January 2016 12: 37
    +1
    Quote: bbss
    Simply make the nozzle rifled.

    Then the barrel can inflate, the only option is, if you make holes in front of the rifling to discharge excess gases, then you need to calculate what will happen to the bullet.
    It is much easier to insert a threaded insert into the barrel, but then the caliber will decrease. It will turn out to be a shotgun, and carry another barrel with you.
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 30 January 2016 18: 35
      +1
      Quote: schizophrenic
      Then the barrel can inflate

      You’ll be surprised, but the paradoxes feel good, and slugsters in general throughout the barrel have grooves.
  19. Alex_T
    Alex_T 30 January 2016 12: 46
    +2
    The first thing that came to mind from the title of the article and the figure in the title, we will talk about giving rotation to sub-caliber bullets using a pusher seal with inclined grooves. The problem of unwinding subcaliber bullets was described by Dvoryaninov in "Small Arms Live Cartridges", but it turned out to be simpler and not so serious.
  20. alpamys
    alpamys 30 January 2016 12: 46
    +2
    Quote: Karabas Barabas
    Guys all the comments I will try to give in the second part of the video

    I understand that you are the developer? and where is the shot with a dowel without a nozzle? the speed of rotation of the bullet after leaving the barrel is approximately 3 thousand rpm, the length of your nozzle simply will not allow you to spin it up to these revolutions, IMHO the idea is not working.
    1. Karabas Barabas
      30 January 2016 13: 03
      0
      in small arms, approximately 40% of the energy of powder gases fly out and are not used at all.
      1. alpamys
        alpamys 30 January 2016 13: 19
        +1
        in small arms, approximately 40% of the energy of powder gases fly out and are not used in any way

        you can give an example, I don’t quite understand where these 40 percent fly, for example, in bolts, where there are no gas pistons, and all powder gases work to push the bullet out of the barrel.
  21. evil partisan
    evil partisan 30 January 2016 12: 50
    +1
    It seems to me that the effect of such a nozzle will be insignificant due to the small distance that the bullet travels when exposed to gases flowing out of the slots. In addition (as it seems to me offhand ...) far from all the kinetic energy of the outflowing gases will be spent on the rotation of the bullet, i.e. The efficiency of such a device will be very low and whether it will be enough to give the desired angular velocity to the bullet is a question ... It seems to me that experiments with the design of the bullet itself promise more benefits. Those. there was something rational in the "pig-wheel apparatus" ...
  22. Andrey Peter
    Andrey Peter 30 January 2016 12: 54
    +3
    COMPLETE NONSENSE. I do not want to say more and even more explain the author’s illiteracy!
    1. Karabas Barabas
      30 January 2016 13: 40
      0
      Yeah ... can you then explain what the third law of Newton is? ... on what principle is the reactive force based? ... why do jets fly and don't flap their wings? ...
  23. alpamys
    alpamys 30 January 2016 13: 00
    -2
    can try to press the bullet with such a profile (not end-to-end, of course, as in the picture), the twist will be provided, only the angle of the blades should be 45 degrees or sharper relative to the bore.
    1. Karabas Barabas
      30 January 2016 13: 09
      0
      As for small arms, this idea will be dropped by the manufacturer because of the high cost of production of such bullets. It’s really easy to cut lots once, than to attach such turbines to each bullet. As for artillery, it is possible. according to the type of plumage
      1. alpamys
        alpamys 30 January 2016 13: 13
        +1
        joke chtoli? I pressed the bullets from my shots of large diameter to my air vents (the bullets turned out to be larger than the originals with the skirt but flew stably and the breakdown force also increased) to attach nothing inappropriately, the shape of the press should correspond and that’s all, there is nowhere cheaper.
    2. saygon66
      saygon66 30 January 2016 22: 44
      +1
      - Well, you can cut bullets from a bar, like a profile like that of a metalwork "sweep" ...
  24. Nexus 6
    Nexus 6 30 January 2016 13: 02
    0
    To the author here -http: //forum.guns.ru/forumtopics/117.html.
  25. schizophrenic
    schizophrenic 30 January 2016 13: 19
    +1
    Quote: Karabas Barabas
    in small arms, approximately 40% of the energy of powder gases fly out and are not used in any way
    To increase the efficiency of the shot, it is easier to make the barrel longer, but then the weight of the weapon will increase. All firearms compromise between weight and kmd. When using slots and holes, the efficiency will be reduced, but then something else is obtained, such as noiselessness and higher accuracy.
    1. Karabas Barabas
      30 January 2016 13: 37
      0
      This is not the question ... when a shot is fired, a "surplus" of energy is formed. Our task is to invest it in stabilization energy. Even if such an excess is insufficient, which prevents it from being made sufficient, I regulate the amount of powder? ...
  26. Jurkovs
    Jurkovs 30 January 2016 13: 46
    +1
    The question is why? As far as I know, the transition to smoothbore guns was conscious, in order to get away from the shortcomings of rifled weapons (derivation and so on).
    1. Karabas Barabas
      30 January 2016 14: 03
      +1
      a smooth barrel is easier to manufacture. It requires a smaller weight of gunpowder, as a result, less recoil. It allows you to use an all-metal bullet, which in turn is cheaper to manufacture and has a greater penetrating ability. And the legal side-citizens get a full-fledged weapon without any 5 years of waiting for the snag. .
    2. Alex_T
      Alex_T 30 January 2016 15: 11
      +2
      Jurkovs, Forced to disappoint you, but the transition to smooth trunks was a necessary measure to increase the speed of the projectile, especially the sub-caliber. The problem with derivation remained, because the projectile still rotated, but not at the expense of rifling, but with the help of inclined stabilizers, and the sub-caliber also due to the inclined openings for powder gases in the pulling washer-seal. Smooth-bore mortars have no problems with derivation, as rotation prevents the mine from flying forward in flight along a steep path.
  27. schizophrenic
    schizophrenic 30 January 2016 13: 51
    +1
    Quote: Karabas Barabas
    when fired, a "surplus" of energy is generated. Our task is to invest it in the stabilization energy

    In this article, the scheme is possible stabilization only when using a bullet with a complex shape, such as a turbine, but when smooth-bore, wads are often used, which makes it impossible to use this scheme for shooting.
    1. Karabas Barabas
      30 January 2016 13: 58
      +2
      I have an answer to this question. I’m afraid that the pressure of powder gases will carry all the flaps to hell. The ideal version is a spindle-shaped bullet, such as in the video. improve the aerodynamics of the bullet.
  28. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 30 January 2016 14: 01
    +3
    The alignment of forces with this method of twisting is not clear, but about efficiency - doubts are gnawing. The effectiveness of such a system can be checked by planting a pen on the axis, and try to unwind it in such a nozzle with compressed air from the compressor. In general, there is a spin-up system for sub-caliber shells. There are holes at an angle in the washers that center the projectile. The trunk is smooth. The maximum efficiency. The washers are made up of sectors, and after the shot are scattered radially, and quite far away. Who shot, he knows. But it's in guns. For small arms, jewelry work. Over each bullet.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 30 January 2016 18: 50
      0
      This jewelry work is easily done by 3D CNC machines.
  29. schizophrenic
    schizophrenic 30 January 2016 14: 06
    +1
    Quote: Karabas Barabas
    bullets and gases, improve the aerodynamics of the bullet

    On a fan-shaped form, you will still have to install a type of turbine, cast with a slight slope, to enhance twisting, but the shape of the bullet will be more complicated.
    1. Karabas Barabas
      30 January 2016 14: 47
      +1
      yes there are no flaps needed there, all this nonsense ... the force of interaction of bullets and rifling about 100 kg per cm2.forces of powder gases about a ton per cm2.so we can get a force that is 10 times the force interacting with cuts. the task is simply to direct this force in the right direction. but it is all the same that you put a bullet in a vice and argue whether there is enough force with a vice or if the bullet has to be equipped with some other hooks ...
      1. Alex_T
        Alex_T 30 January 2016 15: 19
        +2
        Dear Karabas Barabas. Please attach a diagram where the same "100 kg per cm2" will be affected. Let me remind you that the pressure of gases is always normal (perpendicular) to the surface.
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        3. Alex_T
          Alex_T 30 January 2016 15: 42
          +1
          It is somewhat naive to expect that the bullet will rotate after the gases leaving the slot. With the same success, you can blow off a lying sheet of iron from the floor, directing the air flow not at the end, but at the center of the sheet tangentially.
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  30. Andrey Peter
    Andrey Peter 30 January 2016 14: 09
    +6
    Quote: Mountain Shooter
    The alignment of forces with this method of twisting is not clear

    What is not clear here? Gases will practically not affect the bullet, but they will twist the barrel for sure. The author would be better to first read the laws of physics before writing such an article what
    1. Karabas Barabas
      30 January 2016 14: 31
      +1
      the author did not feel any torsion of the barrel ... the fact is that the weapon has its mass, and the mass is characterized by inertia. during that period of time in which the shot takes place, I assure you, you don’t have time to feel anything
  31. Igor V
    Igor V 30 January 2016 14: 16
    +2
    When the slots are reached, the gas pressure will drop sharply. In this case, in conditions of pressure drop, the working fluid (gases) still need to do the work of twisting the bullet. Strongly I doubt that it is possible.
  32. schizophrenic
    schizophrenic 30 January 2016 14: 18
    +1
    Quote: Andrew Peter
    Gases will practically not affect the bullet, but they will twist the barrel

    For a bullet, such a system is suitable, but if you add a conventional slotted compensator, the bullet will be twisted. This will result in a turbine with the emission of gases to the side, and a slot compensator will align the barrel. Yes, and there are doubts that there is enough energy for the gas to spin the bullet to the required speed
    1. martin-159
      martin-159 30 January 2016 15: 40
      0
      Especially when you consider the time that the bullet will be in the zone of action of gases.
  33. gridasov
    gridasov 30 January 2016 14: 43
    +1
    The question is that these radial openings will introduce external air to create a torque, or vice versa, powder gases will be discharged out. So without understanding the essence of the process, you can get the exact opposite effect. The method has long been known for imparting vortex flows in a hydrodynamic flow. What is surprising is that it surprises many. Therefore, as a conclusion, we can say that this is a very crude project, besides without understanding the essence of the processes.
  34. Free wind
    Free wind 30 January 2016 14: 48
    +1
    gentlemen, since 1640 rifles have been made, from the word screw, I hope you understand, but all other jokes do not add accuracy, well, this work, this ................
  35. Castor oil
    Castor oil 30 January 2016 15: 14
    +3
    Cool slotted flame arrester re-invented, you just have to drill a quarter of the caliber and it will be like people laughing
    Bullshit in general, at school it was necessary to take a closer look at physics smile
  36. schizophrenic
    schizophrenic 30 January 2016 15: 36
    +1
    In his youth, he was counting on a bullet that the gases unwound during a breakthrough, but ran into a problem that the gases were spinning in one direction, then when leaving the trunk, the oncoming air would spin in the opposite direction and the bullet would stop spinning. With a slotted flash carrier, it will be possible to twist in the right direction, when the air flow will spin the bullet, and the plugs will fly out of the turbine when the bullets fly out of the barrel.
    1. Nikolaevich I
      Nikolaevich I 30 January 2016 15: 58
      +2
      Quote: schizophrenic
      I ran into a problem that the gases are spinning in one direction, then when you fly out of the barrel, the oncoming air will spin in the opposite direction and the bullet will stop spinning.

      Firstly, why did you decide that the impact of the "oncoming" air would be equivalent to the effect of powder gases? Secondly: there are options for "closing" the spiral grooves of "gas breakthrough" after the bullet leaves the barrel.
  37. martin-159
    martin-159 30 January 2016 15: 37
    0
    Sorry for the harshness, but in my opinion the idea is crazy.
  38. Cat man null
    Cat man null 30 January 2016 16: 03
    +2
    Rave. The bicycle has long been invented. A smoothbore is a smoothbore, it has its own advantages .. and nefig bullets .. twist, which is not supposed to spin.

    IMHO.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 30 January 2016 18: 52
      +3
      The bicycle was invented long ago - but it is still being improved.
  39. Pencil
    Pencil 30 January 2016 16: 03
    +1
    And it seems to me that the idea is sound, but this idea may have a different implementation option. A hole is made at the tip of the bullet through which counter air is pumped into the bullet, which, in turn, leaves the slotted holes located tangentially on the side surfaces of the bullet, as shown in the figure. The solution slightly increases the frontal resistance of the bullet, but arising, shifted above the axis of rotation, transversely directed reactive forces clearly unwind the bullet. And no muzzle attachments are needed.
  40. schizophrenic
    schizophrenic 30 January 2016 16: 04
    0
    Quote: Nikolaevich I
    spiral grooves

    Then there was no Internet, and after that it was not interesting.
  41. Rom14
    Rom14 30 January 2016 16: 11
    +1
    Smooth barrel smoothly turning into a rifle, 7 cm at the exit. Melkan served for hunting for many years, the factory bulletproof tank in no comparison in any way. It is not clear why plants do not make such trunks? And it’s easier and much more efficient., Tested by time and on an automatic cartridge too.
  42. HUMAN OWNER 1
    HUMAN OWNER 1 30 January 2016 16: 46
    +2
    The "paradox" attachment for a smoothbore was invented for a long time, it works great (and you can't reinvent the wheel) :-)
  43. akm8226
    akm8226 31 January 2016 01: 22
    0
    Yes ... citizens - do you know that a correctly posed question is half the answer? Do you know? Now tell me - what does the author want to achieve? What are the benefits of his offer? Cheaper production? TTX improvement?
    Nothing like that! Just a dumb banter. I remind you those who do not remember that in order to stabilize the AK-74 bullet in flight, it needs to be rotated at a speed of 4500 r / sec !!
    4500 rpm !!
    Still have questions?
    1. kapitan92
      kapitan92 31 January 2016 01: 57
      +3
      "..... Although the muzzle velocity of the cartridge 5,45x39 is lower than that of the NATO SS109 cartridge from FN (947,5 m / s), but its wound action is better than that of the previous American cartridge M193. The AK74 barrel has a very steep cutting - a step of 200 mm, which gives the bullet a high rotation speed - about 3800 rpm "... http://www.studfiles.ru/preview/2953074/
  44. duchy
    duchy 31 January 2016 07: 54
    0
    what But what about the laws of physics ??? The barrel is a pipe, only the muzzle is free, gases act only on the bottom of a bullet, a projectile. For the body to acquire a rotational moment, one condition is necessary: ​​for the gases to flow through the indicated "slots", but the body moves along the "pipe", how to ensure this? The object will start rotating only at the cut of the trunk, which I doubt the parameters promised by the author. Physics. hi
    1. andj61
      andj61 31 January 2016 08: 30
      0
      Quote: duche
      what But what about the laws of physics ??? The barrel is a pipe, only the muzzle is free, gases act only on the bottom of a bullet, a projectile. For the body to acquire a rotational moment, one condition is necessary: ​​for the gases to flow through the indicated "slots", but the body moves along the "pipe", how to ensure this? The object will start rotating only at the cut of the trunk, which I doubt the parameters promised by the author. Physics. hi

      It will be due to the laws of physics. In the same way as for the screw threads in the barrel. Only these "grooves" are created on the "body" of a bullet or a projectile. Expanding propellant gases are pushed into the rear, and rotation provides the outlet of propellant gases through the body of the projectile to the surface of the barrel. This exit is not over the entire surface - that's why rotation is provided. Only the size and location of such slots needs to be worked out.
  45. Karabas Barabas
    31 January 2016 09: 28
    0
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=60OL7IS00ys
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