Military Review

The myth of the gladiators: universal suicide bombers?

99

The existence in ancient Rome of the phenomenon of gladiature is widely known. Moreover, this phenomenon is surrounded by such a significant number of myths that historical facts are already difficult to distinguish from outright fiction. Let's try to deal with the main issue that has been subjected to the most serious mythologization, the issue of the inevitable death of a gladiator in the arena.


First of all, I want to note that this material is not exhaustive on this topic, and therefore the complaints that begin with the phrase “the author forgot to mention ...” or “the author is an amateur, he did not talk about ...” I consider in this case to lie outside the research topic .

The statement of the question is as follows: coming to the people, did the gladiator sign the death sentence for himself? Are all gladiators suicide bombers?

In fact, those who believe in this myth do not fully understand the essence of the gladiatorial phenomenon. Do not confuse two things: directly those who were called gladiators, and those who went armed to the arena. Besides the gladiators themselves, the arena with weapons There were at least 3 categories of citizens.

The first is criminals sentenced to death. The Romans, we note, were lovers and connoisseurs of the show, and therefore they approached the executions creatively and with an appropriate spectacular scope. It was a semi-literate crowd in medieval Europe who liked to stare at the banal chopping off of heads and other body parts that were unnecessary from the point of view of medieval justice, while in Rome aesthetic demands were much higher. Of executions, a real performance was arranged, in which, of course, gladiators participated as executioners. Those sentenced to death were given quite functional weapons (rather than blunted counterparts - more on that later), and in the case when the show's scenario provided for an element of reconstruction of any battle - and armor identical (or even authentic) to the armor of soldiers of a certain side. For example, a group of convicts could be dressed as “Celts”, and professional gladiators - Roman legionnaires, and arrange a large-scale reconstruction of the battle with these same Celts, of which there are more than a dozen battles in Roman history. Naturally, those sentenced to death had insignificant chances of victory: the gladiator is a trained combat professional, and the criminal is just a criminal. Sometimes, however, it also happened that spectators particularly distinguished themselves in providing quality spectacles for spectators.

The second category of citizens are those who, not being a professional gladiator, expressed a desire to take part in the Games. The profession of gladiator, of course, was not considered particularly respected, but it was more of an official position (attitude to the gladiators in Rome can be compared with the attitude to the buffoon in Ancient Russia after the adoption of Christianity), but gladiators enjoyed a very high popularity among the public. In addition, this profession has always enveloped a certain romantic aura, and sometimes it would be desirable to take a sip of adrenaline to snickering Quirites. And if a quirite eager for adrenaline and finances was strained - then Arena kindly opened its gates for him: not only could he count on a certain prize from the organizer of the Games, so also, according to custom, the gladiator-winner could take everything that the audience threw on the Arena during (and after) the battle, and sometimes a popular rain of small coins thrown by the handfuls of people thrown at the popular or successful gladiator. There are cases when quite noble persons went out to the Arena and even emperors (some copies of whom liked to show their outstanding physical and fighting qualities to their subjects - of course, not for the sake of small coins, but for raising ratings for). The main difference between this category of citizens and professional gladiators is not so much the lack of professional gladiator training (many of them didn’t give in to the gladiator’s training), and status — again, traditionally, gladiators legally belonged (slaves) to the respective lanistas, while the indicated citizens not.

Interestingly, the scale of this phenomenon - free citizens entering the Arena in order to tickle their nerves and fill the wallet, as well as show off in front of the audience - was so wide that edicts were issued from time to time prohibiting, for example, the participation of women from the patrician class in the Games. I repeat, not any persons of the patrician class; not any women; namely, women of the patrician class — that is, with the participation of simply free women and simply patricians, they have long been reconciled. By the way, the aforementioned edict was published several times, which suggests that it was not really followed up (I had to remind).

If the first two categories of citizens in the Arena risked their lives and health (in varying degrees, of course), the third category was practically not risking. This category is rarely mentioned, but without it the Games are not possible. This is the staff of the Arena, whose functions included the security of the Games. For example, if someone from the sentenced criminals suddenly comes into the head to throw a dart at the audience, then the organizer of the Games will be somehow embarrassing. Therefore, sometimes there are references to some sagittarius'ah, standing with strained bows in the stands and vigilantly watching the progress of the bout.

So, in all, there were 4 different categories of citizens participating in the Games; they all risked to varying degrees.

Professional gladiator, for a moment - product piece. Not any slave is good enough to get to the lanista. Frank zadokhlik gladiator will not. Yes, and a suitable slave is trained in a ludus, for a second, for THREE years. That is, three years to feed him, put on shoes, teach ... so that he died in the first battle? No need to consider a lanist idiots, they are fully aware of their gesheft and their sources.

It is for this reason that if the Games were organized by ONE lanisty, the gladiators did not fight with stupid but very dull weapons, and clearly knew HOW to strike so that the external bleeding was, and the opponent had no serious injury. It is difficult to say whether the battles were then completely staged, but, most likely, it was a kind of modern wrestling - it looks impressive, but in fact all movements are known to both sides in advance. The wolves are fed, the sheep are safe, the shepherd counts the profits.

By the way, a number of types of gladiator weapons were also “sharpened” exclusively for showiness, but not for effectiveness. For example, the weapon of the gladiator-skissor: a forked short blade is a weapon capable of inflicting only shallow cuts. Blood sea, but to the serious internal organs with all the desire will not reach.

Since a good gladiator brought a good income to the lanista, then to his gladiator, services were such things that often did not dreamed of an ordinary poor Roman. For example, all the achievements of the then Roman medicine. In particular, there is information about the found remains of a gladiator whose bones have traces of a pin operation. Complex surgical operations, I recall, were unknown in medieval Europe, and in the more culturally developed Ancient Rome they were not widely practiced either. Despite all the advancement (for its time) of Roman medicine, the Romans could not stop internal bleeding - it was from them that most of the gladiators died.
As for the gladiators defeated in a fight. Some mistakenly believe that they were definitely waiting for death, or that victory in the battle of gladiators can be achieved solely by the death of the enemy. Let’s disappoint some: the most productive gladiator about whom the records remained, the Syrian Flamm, lost several bouts at different times, which did not prevent him from continuing his career; at the same time Flamma FOURTHIES refused the offer not to perform more at the Games. True, he died in a battle in the Arena - but, apparently, it was precisely to this that he purposefully strove.

The death of a gladiator (namely a professional gladiator, and not a sentenced criminal) in the battle in the Arena was considered an accident rather than a commonplace.

The coaching staff of the Ludus was formed, by the way, from among the gladiators themselves (most often, the rudians, that is, those who were given a wooden sword as a sign that he can now decide whether to participate in the Games or not) it already says that many gladiators lived to their retirement. Speaking of rudiarias: they often received from the lanistas and the Phrygian cap (sign of slave liberation), but this cap was not particularly pleasing to them: this meant that legally he was now free, and therefore the lanista was not obliged to contain it. Like, get, free citizen of Rome, the means of living now himself - you are no longer a slave. Most often, the "fooled" rudiarii were hired to the same lanista - but now for the salary that the lanista himself set (sometimes to his advantage, since it would be more expensive to maintain the same rudiary as a slave).

In general, it can be said that the Roman gladiator is a professional extreme sport rather than a cruel custom. Despite the fact that the main body of athletes were specially trained slaves (all for the sake of entertainment!), Almost any citizen of Rome could take part in the Games. The guaranteed death in the Arena waited only for those sentenced to it, and not at all to professional gladiators, who pathetically greet the crowd with a cry “Going to death salute you!”
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  1. Yarik
    Yarik 30 January 2016 07: 46 New
    24
    Very interesting article. Thank you.
    1. Baikal
      Baikal 30 January 2016 12: 01 New
      26
      Everything is typical European: "There is an ass, but no words" wink And fights, and buckets of pathos, and romance, and legends - but in reality a typical circus for the loot.
      It looks especially in unison with modern events - and the heroic invasion of other countries, and megatons of pathos, and democracy above all, and human rights - but in fact, a typical circus for the loot. Only the circus has grown to a planetary scale, and the weapon of the "gladiators" has become lies, substitution of concepts and "exclusivity".

      Thanks for the article! Very informative hi
    2. ver_
      ver_ 30 January 2016 18: 22 New
      -39 qualifying.
      ... there are some hiccups .., namely: the baptism of Russia took place in the 15th century, and not at the time of Christ (Prince Andrey Bogolyubsky 1152-1185) .. Our ancestors were pagans and resisted attempts to impose a single god. In the 15th century, a split of the Church took place and a part of the "electorate" adopted Islam (Moses - Prince of Tver - founded Kazan and then moved to Constantinople where he "founded" the Ataman Empire - later the Ottoman Empire turned out .. So with the history of Rome it is not quite so - or rather not at all - Guy Julius Caesar is written off from George Yuri Dolgoruky - Caesar - the firstborn .., what can we say about Roman Law, when the Roman Empire did not exist at all .. Alexander the Great = Aleksandr Nevsky .. History is not a science ...
      1. Ostwest
        Ostwest 30 January 2016 18: 48 New
        16
        Where did the woods come from, about Moses, the prince of Tver, the baptism of Rus — the 15th century?
        Everyone knows that Russia was baptized by the Equal-to-the-Apostles Prince of Kiev Vladimir, in 980.
        and of course not the Khrushchev maize.
        I can not say anything about ukrov, the ancestors of Adam and Eve. It is better to find out from them, and about the Black Sea, which they dug and poured the Caucasus Mountains, and what was left went to the Crimea.
        Apart from the scholars, no one possesses this information, but if people say it, you need to believe it, the truth about the prince of Tver Moses and the baptism of Russia in the 15th century I hear for the first time. Are Ukrainians again?
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 30 January 2016 20: 11 New
          17
          This is just another patient, do not be surprised. They constantly break through here, but fortunately there are few of them to get a good site!
          1. Baikal
            Baikal 30 January 2016 21: 24 New
            +8
            Quote: ver_
            History is not science ...

            Another adherent of alternative artists, horoscopes and all the crap, read by figures such as Fomenko.
            Gentlemen, throw him a coin in a jar and pass by laughing
            1. Aqela
              Aqela 1 February 2016 01: 10 New
              +2
              Or call the psychiatric ambulance. wink laughing
            2. VVM
              VVM 1 February 2016 16: 43 New
              +3
              Do without a coin
          2. Santjaga_Garka
            Santjaga_Garka 1 February 2016 17: 38 New
            +1
            I don’t understand how he got the lieutenant with such comments? Although, he has been sitting here for a long time, the whole sea of ​​comments, but the Lieutenant, apparently suffers from such comments *)
        2. Glot
          Glot 30 January 2016 21: 21 New
          +5
          the truth about the Prince of Tver Moses and the baptism of Russia in the 15th century I hear for the first time. Are Ukrainians again?


          No, these are ours, Fomenko and Co. That they are such nonsense. Moreover, here the identification of Nevsky with Macedonian, and they also somehow identified Nevsky with Batu. laughing Like, that wasn't there either. No one was shorter, and never, and nowhere. laughing laughing laughing
          1. Zoldat_A
            Zoldat_A 2 February 2016 04: 13 New
            +3
            Quote: Glot
            No one was shorter, and never, and nowhere.

            There was nobody, never and nowhere. Absolutely. Fomenko alone with his scroll. The entire history of mankind fit five meters graph paper. Yes, he is probably a genius? How is he doing? Integral Academies teach, teach, teach, teach, learn all this history, they cannot learn, and he once! - and everything fit in 500 years and five meters of paper ...

            Horror .... Damn, and after all someone believes?
        3. Lukich
          Lukich 1 February 2016 22: 09 New
          +4
          Quote: OstWest
          I can not say anything about ukrov, the ancestors of Adam and Eve. It is better to find out from them, and about the Black Sea, which they dug and poured the Caucasus Mountains, and what was left went to the Crimea.

          and even further
      2. Glot
        Glot 30 January 2016 20: 51 New
        +4
        ... there are some hiccups .., namely: the baptism of Russia took place in the 15th century, and not at the time of Christ (Prince Andrey Bogolyubsky 1152-1185) .. Our ancestors were pagans and resisted attempts to impose a single god. In the 15th century, a split of the Church took place and a part of the "electorate" adopted Islam (Moses - Prince of Tver - founded Kazan and then moved to Constantinople where he "founded" the Ataman Empire - later the Ottoman Empire turned out .. So with the history of Rome it is not quite so - or rather not at all - Guy Julius Caesar is written off from George Yuri Dolgoruky - Caesar - the firstborn .., what can we say about Roman Law, when the Roman Empire did not exist at all .. Alexander the Great = Aleksandr Nevsky .. History is not a science ...


        Another, ***** God forgive me ... laughing
        Well, you can’t be a tree to such an extent. This is horror. laughing
        1. ILDM1986
          ILDM1986 30 January 2016 21: 55 New
          11
          Goblin recently Klim Zhukov fiercely dawned on Fomenkovtsy. right up to tears good
          1. Baikal
            Baikal 30 January 2016 23: 34 New
            +4
            100500 laughing Thanks, be sure to watch laughing
          2. CHILD
            CHILD 1 February 2016 23: 41 New
            0
            Alternative specialists are certainly funny .... but these gentlemen))) also do not inspire confidence))) .... as always)))) ..... the truth is somewhere nearby .... everyone understands perfectly well, here through 50 years of ends can not be found ... and after 500 ... legends)))
      3. Aqela
        Aqela 1 February 2016 01: 07 New
        +2
        It seems that the calculations are carried out by a student of the 2nd grade of secondary school. Even if we admit that Russia was baptized under Andrei Bogolyubsky, the 12th century, not the 15th, comes out. Not to mention that they were baptized in Russia three hundred years earlier, in the 10th century - mass baptisms and subsequent oppression of the pagans went. And all these considerations prompt the question: why all these crazy and little speculations? What is the connection with the topic of the article? for buffoons or something offensive?
        1. CHILD
          CHILD 1 February 2016 23: 43 New
          0
          Everyone is trying to find what they are proud of))) ... as if something will help)))
      4. Zoldat_A
        Zoldat_A 2 February 2016 03: 58 New
        +3
        Quote: ver_
        ... there are some hiccups .., namely: the baptism of Russia took place in the 15th century, and not at the time of Christ (Prince Andrey Bogolyubsky 1152-1185) .. Our ancestors were pagans and resisted attempts to impose a single god. In the 15th century, a split of the Church took place and a part of the "electorate" adopted Islam (Moses - Prince of Tver - founded Kazan and then moved to Constantinople where he "founded" the Ataman Empire - later the Ottoman Empire turned out .. So with the history of Rome it is not quite so - or rather not at all - Guy Julius Caesar is written off from George Yuri Dolgoruky - Caesar - the firstborn .., what can we say about Roman Law, when the Roman Empire did not exist at all .. Alexander the Great = Aleksandr Nevsky .. History is not a science ...

        Do not read Anatoly Fomenko at night, dear ver_! And then, God forbid, believe that the ancient Ukrainians dug up the Black Sea, and Adam and Eve were Chechens (at the time of Dudaev, Chechen scientists are already ridiculous! - they made this discovery).

        Quote: ver_
        History is not science ...
        Absolutely right! And therefore, among the great alternative historians, there is not a single person who would have taught history elsewhere, except in school. That's right, Van Gogh also had no art education! The amateur built Noah's Ark, and the professionals built the Titanic! And other, and other ...

        Does it not seem strange to you yourself that Fomenko is a mathematician, Yu. Mukhin is a metallurgist, Asov (Barashkov) is a hydrologist, Chudinov is a physicist, A. Balabukha is a topographer ....

        Read your school history book. You can even modern - everything is truer, with all Soros's compositions, than the inventions of "alternative historians" ... If there is absolutely no trust in official science, go to the gypsy station. For 500 rubles she will tell about the past much more truthfully than all these physicists-metallurgists-janitors-mathematicians ...
  2. svp67
    svp67 30 January 2016 07: 50 New
    +2
    The death of a gladiator (namely a professional gladiator, and not a sentenced criminal) in the battle in the Arena was considered an accident rather than a commonplace.
    That is, if the audience put their finger down, demanding the death of the vanquished, this is just an accident ... well, the stars turned out.
    1. Riv
      Riv 30 January 2016 09: 42 New
      16
      In fact, it doesn't matter what position the finger was in. He always symbolized a sword and an order to finish off the loser, even if you put it in his mouth. :))) Well, a clenched fist meant a scabbard, respectively. A raised fist meant recognition of the courage of the vanquished. Compare this to the "Rot Front" greeting - that's where it comes from.

      And of course, if a free man entered the arena (which is typical: always under a mask, or in a closed helmet), then he decided to kill him or not, he decided. After all, the emperor himself could well have been masked, or one of the patricians. Spectators in this case could yell as much as they like.
      1. clidon
        clidon 30 January 2016 10: 37 New
        +5
        Just recently I came across an article in which it was said that all these gestures and their meanings are still an absolutely dark forest for scientists.
        1. Riv
          Riv 30 January 2016 11: 48 New
          +9
          Well, for scientists, the middle finger is incomprehensible ... :)
          1. clidon
            clidon 30 January 2016 13: 45 New
            +1
            This is probably good. After all, science is not fascinating stories for the "general reader".
          2. Simon
            Simon 30 January 2016 17: 25 New
            +2
            For that, for the Russian people it is clear! A squeezed palm of the hand with the thumb raised to the top means that it is very good, and two are even better. good
            1. Riv
              Riv 1 February 2016 13: 01 New
              +2
              Here it is, the young generation ... :( Also say that like is a Slavic word.

              The gesture came from Europe, but not from Ancient Rome, but from England. In France, during the Hundred Years War, a custom appeared: to cut off the thumb on the right hand to captured English archers. And the British, in turn, having made a successful shot, showed this thumb to enemies and to each other. Like: "Everything is in place, order."
              1. vadimtt
                vadimtt 1 February 2016 13: 33 New
                +1
                Honestly, I don’t know how in the Middle Ages, but it made sense to cut off the finger so that the archer could no longer shoot, however, the thumb is not involved in holding the bowstring. What then was the point of cutting exactly the thumb (well, except for tradition smile )?
                1. Riv
                  Riv 1 February 2016 19: 22 New
                  +2
                  Well, somehow on occasion, having lost your thumbs, try to put an arrow on the bowstring and at the same time hold the bow.
                  :)
  3. parusnik
    parusnik 30 January 2016 08: 17 New
    +9
    Are all gladiators suicide bombers? The wounded gladiators received very good medical help, the Roman doctors were famous for their ability to treat cut wounds, and they also provided good assistance to the injured in a fracture, they performed operations with anesthesia, used opium, but they could not do anything with internal bleeding and the gladiator died. of how gladiatorial fights became just entertainment and gladiator schools were founded, 90% of the gladiators survived, only 10% died by chance.
  4. Sargord A.
    Sargord A. 30 January 2016 09: 16 New
    +5
    Informative article, thanks to the author for the material. I would like to see on Topwar more publications on the history of ancient Rome.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 30 January 2016 20: 12 New
      +1
      And you come back often and find!
      1. Sargord A.
        Sargord A. 31 January 2016 09: 06 New
        +1
        I am here every day since the morning when I look through the news.
  5. Fox
    Fox 30 January 2016 09: 20 New
    -16 qualifying.
    a bunch of questions are some:
    -Where specifically were the gladiators?
    Was Rome at that time? (it was not mentioned at all in the 15-16th century)
    - about a finger where infa? citizens of Rome told?
    - where do such details come from? (Now they don’t know whether the Americans were on the moon, but here everything is known about everything)
    1. Mera joota
      Mera joota 30 January 2016 11: 03 New
      14
      Quote: Fox
      a bunch of questions are some:

      Go to school, go to school ... Would you not skip classes, would not raise stupid questions ...
      1. ver_
        ver_ 30 January 2016 18: 35 New
        -7
        ..in school you can study arithmetic, physics, chemistry, but not history — there is no such science — there are fairy tales and storytellers with advanced degrees .. Winners write history, not defeated ones ..
        1. Aljavad
          Aljavad 2 February 2016 00: 06 New
          +1
          ver_ (4) RU January 30, 2016 18:35 ↑ New
          ..in school you can study arithmetic, physics, chemistry, but not history — there is no such science — there are fairy tales and storytellers with advanced degrees .. Winners write history, not defeated ones ..

          Science is such a thing, subjective. And not only History, but all other chemistry with algebras. If the subject studied science nicely - for him, science exists. But if he scratched his genitals instead of studying himself, then there was no science for him. Such is subjectivity!

          Yes! I almost forgot. The deuce obtained as a result of the active denial of science on the exam develops a fierce hatred of the subject for those who have succeeded in this science.

          Advice to such subjects: How to speak out on subjects that you have not learned at school, continue to scratch your genitals better. Though subjective benefit will be.
    2. V.ic
      V.ic 30 January 2016 12: 53 New
      +1
      Quote: Fox
      a bunch of questions are some:
      -Where specifically were the gladiators?
      Was Rome at that time? (it was not mentioned at all in the 15-16th century)

      You also have Internet access, since you are checked in here. Download Plutarch, open the chapter of Crassus and read paragraph VIII.
      Quote: Fox
      a bunch of questions are some:
      Was Rome at that time? (it was not mentioned at all in the 15-16th century)

      According to legend, Rome was founded in the 8th century BC, therefore, in the 15-16th centuries BC cannot be marked. If we take the 15-16 centuries of our era, then take an interest in who the following men were:
      Nicholas V (1447-1455 gg.).
      Sixt IV (1471-1484).
      ALEXANDER VI (1492-1503).
      1. ver_
        ver_ 30 January 2016 18: 38 New
        -10 qualifying.
        ... that's just Christ himself was born in 1152 .. And how to link it with the accepted Chronology? ...
        1. V.ic
          V.ic 31 January 2016 08: 49 New
          +2
          Quote: ver_
          ... that's just Christ himself was born in 1152 ..

          Gosha?! Then I will reveal to you personally (only ts-ss, do not retell to anyone!) Marx, Engels, Lenin, whom you can observe on posters of the times of the USSR = this is a new embodiment of the Consubstantial Trinity. And the mummy of the latter, called "Ilyich", will disappear from the building erected on Red Square. And Messrs. Fomenko and Nosovsky will provide a mathematical basis for this event.
          Quote: ver_
          And how to link it with the accepted Chronology?

          This secret is great, it is covered with darkness and only Fomenko and Nosovsky know it, may their blessed names be holy in the hearts of the followers of the "new chronology"!
      2. kalibr
        kalibr 30 January 2016 20: 14 New
        +2
        What are you trying to convince the patient, so even piss into their eyes all of God's dew!
  6. chinelev. v
    chinelev. v 30 January 2016 09: 46 New
    +2
    But what about fights with wild animals? Or were there actors in animal skins?
    1. Mera joota
      Mera joota 30 January 2016 11: 05 New
      +2
      Quote: chinelev. v
      But what about fights with wild animals? Or were there actors in animal skins?

      What can a wild beast against an armed man? Look at the bullfight, there are also accidents, but aren't bullfighters the same?
      1. IS-80
        IS-80 30 January 2016 17: 47 New
        +6
        Quote: Mera Joota
        What can a wild beast against an armed man?

        You must be armed, say a Thracian, to set against a bear. To questions of this kind you no longer have. smile
      2. 97110
        97110 30 January 2016 22: 20 New
        +2
        Quote: Mera Joota
        What can a wild beast against an armed man?

        If you see a boar attacking you, you will know.
    2. Homo
      Homo 30 January 2016 11: 54 New
      +2
      Quote: chinelev. v
      But what about fights with wild animals? Or were there actors in animal skins?

      My friend, isn’t fate moving the brains? Watching than the beast feed before the fight! And if you don’t feed at all for some time, the beast will be weak, hungry, but very angry.
  7. moskowit
    moskowit 30 January 2016 10: 11 New
    +2
    It is a pity the author did not indicate the used literature. The topic is very interesting. I would like to know which of the ancient authors or historians more widely, naturally documented, studied and disclosed this topic. After all, gladiatorial battles originated among the Etruscans ...
    1. Mera joota
      Mera joota 30 January 2016 11: 14 New
      13
      Quote: moskowit
      It is a pity the author did not indicate the used literature.

      The conclusions made by the author are quite logical. It’s impossible to imagine that the gladiators died in packs after several years of preparation, the owner of the gladiators would go broke immediately.
      It is stupid to let out slaves into the arena of slaves who did not understand the basics of gun ownership, the crowd will not appreciate it, it needs a performance. Therefore, the comparison with wrestling is correct.
    2. ver_
      ver_ 30 January 2016 18: 28 New
      -5
      ... to the article about the birds - Etruscans = it's Russian ..
      1. Aqela
        Aqela 1 February 2016 01: 23 New
        +3
        And why not those who wear underpants instead of a tunic or toga? The version is no less bizarre. fool
  8. Zebus
    Zebus 30 January 2016 10: 12 New
    +5
    Perhaps I agree with the author - this is more like the truth than the picture that cinema treats us with!
  9. Alekst
    Alekst 30 January 2016 10: 50 New
    +2
    Quote: Fox
    a bunch of questions are some:
    -Where specifically were the gladiators?
    Was Rome at that time? (it was not mentioned at all in the 15-16th century)
    - about a finger where infa? citizens of Rome told?
    - where do such details come from? (Now they don’t know whether the Americans were on the moon, but here everything is known about everything)

    Sorry, but why in the 15-16 century? and not for example 13-14 or 17-18
  10. Dim Bes
    Dim Bes 30 January 2016 11: 54 New
    +4
    Ave caesar morituri te salutant!
    1. Aqela
      Aqela 1 February 2016 01: 26 New
      +1
      Yeah, exactly: "Hail, master, doomed to death greet you"
      Only, now, it’s not indicated anywhere that all the gladiators said so. Or maybe those who were sentenced to death by a court decision shouted like that?
  11. Fat
    Fat 30 January 2016 13: 21 New
    +3
    Great article. Thanks to the author. hi
  12. Bashibuzuk
    Bashibuzuk 30 January 2016 13: 51 New
    -4
    Well, I really liked the article.
    From my point of view, throw out "Ancient Rome" as a time marker - and everything is in order.
    Let us consider this moment - "... Complex surgical operations, let me remind you that in medieval Europe were unknown, and in the more culturally developed ancient Rome is also not particularly wide practiced. Despite all the advancement (for its time) of Roman medicine, the Romans did not know how to stop internal bleeding - it was from them that most gladiators died ... "
    For whom such parcels indicate different time boundaries?
    For me it is one and the same.
    We transfer the thoroughly false "Ancient Rome" to medieval Europe - and no questions asked.
    .
    And so that the noble seniors did not humiliate themselves by descending to the circus arena, they came up with - knightly tournaments.
    The same eggs, only in profile.
    ..
    .
    I do not deny that it was all.
    It was, definitely.
    But not in the boring, worse bitter radish, "Ancient Rome".
    And only in the republics of Italy, in the duchies of Tuscany and Milan, in the magnificent Venice and Genoa.
    I think so.
    .
    I do not impose on anyone.
  13. Alekst
    Alekst 30 January 2016 14: 09 New
    +5
    Quote: Bashibuzuk
    I do not deny that it was all.
    It was, definitely.
    But not in the boring, worse bitter radish, "Ancient Rome".
    And only in the republics of Italy, in the duchies of Tuscany and Milan, in the magnificent Venice and Genoa.
    I think so.
    .
    I do not impose on anyone.


    But did these magnificent republics reject water supply, sewage and urban planning principles for ideological reasons?
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 30 January 2016 20: 31 New
      11
      What do you want? Mommsen’s people didn’t read from birth, they only heard about Plutarch, they don’t know Italian either, they weren’t in Italy, and if they were in Rome, Rimini and Venice, and what would you like to go through the small town of Tuscany, to see a museum of the same Etruscans - Yes Lord, what am I talking about? Well - that’s the result. No Rome, the Etruscans are Russian, and the pyramids in Giza are the breakwaters from the flood and they were also built ... by the Russians! From Hyperborea! It got colder by the ice, so we decided to keep warm on the Nile. Are you talking about sewers? What are you? Obviously not a Russian and an agent of the US State Department, who seeks to belittle our history and exalt some Romans, who never existed in the world!
  14. Free wind
    Free wind 30 January 2016 14: 10 New
    -1
    From me a minus, timid such, but a minus. The topic is certainly interesting, gladiators are suicide bombers ????? no ,,,,, they are slaves, just slaves, the owner wants to and they will all be killed ....
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 30 January 2016 20: 17 New
      +3
      Was Emperor Commodus also a slave?
    2. Aqela
      Aqela 1 February 2016 01: 29 New
      +1
      Well, if the owner is - then after killing all the slaves he can go to the stable and hang himself quietly on the reins. And what? The master is the master! fool
    3. Rivares
      Rivares 1 February 2016 22: 28 New
      +1
      Quote: Free Wind
      no ,,,,, they are slaves, just slaves, the owner wants to and they will all be killed ....

      Would you like to burn your salary ???
  15. Alekst
    Alekst 30 January 2016 14: 27 New
    +6
    Quote: Free Wind
    From me a minus, timid such, but a minus. The topic is certainly interesting, gladiators are suicide bombers ????? no ,,,,, they are slaves, just slaves, the owner wants to and they will all be killed ....

    a plus from me, the man said, the man did it, chopped up all the furniture with an ax, threw out the refrigerator, washing machine, etc., and ended up in intensive care from a trauma with a blunt object, in the common people a frying pan, from the hostess, but he wanted to - did it ... sorry, such a mood, the matrix stuck))
  16. iury.vorgul
    iury.vorgul 30 January 2016 14: 57 New
    +2
    Thanks to the author, the article is interesting. However, gladiature in Rome during the era of kings, the era of the Early Republic, the time of Caesar, the early and late Empires are different things and different people. The Kharkiv writer Andrey Valentinov has a novel "Spartacus" - read, who is interested, there it is written in some detail about the role of gladiators in Rome.
    1. moskowit
      moskowit 30 January 2016 18: 33 New
      0
      Is the work realistic-historical? Or now fashionable fantasy? Now I’ll look in e-libraries ... Thank you ... If you have an address, discard it, be nice ...
    2. moskowit
      moskowit 30 January 2016 18: 39 New
      +1
      Found it and got acquainted with the annotation. No address needed. There is not much time left to spend it on reading such "literature" ... Thank you ...
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 30 January 2016 20: 24 New
        +3
        Right! Once one editor of one of our publishing houses explained to me how to write historical novels: in yours, he says, there is little brutality and no sex. And it is necessary that our Ivan the paratrooper fell (fell into the hole of time) in Dr. Rome. there he fought as a gladiator, beat everyone with mighty fists and sambo techniques, slept with Cleopatra ... and returned with a bunch of gold coins. This, he says, "the people read." I don't know how ...
    3. kalibr
      kalibr 30 January 2016 20: 21 New
      0
      Everyone has one source base, no one owns any new information ...
      1. Aqela
        Aqela 1 February 2016 01: 33 New
        0
        Damn ... It's been two thousand years! Where is the new information! - I say! good wassat laughing
      2. Rivares
        Rivares 1 February 2016 22: 32 New
        +1
        Quote: kalibr
        Everyone has one source base, no one owns any new information ...

        )))) The products are the same for everyone ... the cooks are different!
  17. iouris
    iouris 30 January 2016 15: 08 New
    +6
    The author has very clearly shown how far from reality the "electoral majority" ideas about certain events and historical processes can be. However, these ideas affect the present and the future. So, I hope, the effect of reading the material will be wider than the deepening of knowledge about gladiature and Ancient Rome. Thank you.
  18. AK64
    AK64 30 January 2016 15: 31 New
    +1
    In fact, it was different: the history of Rome is 1200 years after all, and during this story it was very different.

    The described state of affairs is already Mper Rome, the last 6-7 centuries of its history. And initially they fought naturally to death. Let me remind you that it is believed that the custom was borrowed from the Etruscans, where prisoners fought, and it was death (they could let the winner go)
    1. iouris
      iouris 31 January 2016 02: 44 New
      +1
      By the way, one of my acquaintances (also a scientist) put forward a version that the Etruscans are an abbreviation for "these are Russians." I wonder what the Banderaites will say to this?
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 31 January 2016 08: 15 New
        0
        The Etruscans themselves called themselves Tyrrhenes! Your scientist should learn a little!
        1. Rivares
          Rivares 1 February 2016 22: 36 New
          +2
          Quote: kalibr
          The Etruscans themselves called themselves Tyrrhenes! Your scientist should learn a little!

          Etruscans (ital. Etruschi, lat. Etrusci, Tusci, other Greek. Τυρσηνοί, τυρρηνοί, self-name Rasenna, Raśna)
          Caliber, comment on ???
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 1 February 2016 23: 28 New
            0
            What is there to comment on? I have already written an article - as I knew, as I looked into the water, that this topic would emerge, as g ... but in the ice-hole, "Etruscans against the Russians" - it was about to be. Everything is written there. Maybe tomorrow it will come out ...
      2. Rivares
        Rivares 1 February 2016 22: 41 New
        +1
        Quote: iouris
        By the way, one of my acquaintances (also a scientist) put forward a version that the Etruscans are an abbreviation for "these are Russians"

        Yeah, the Greeks who called them, for some reason called them in pure Russian)) Then Ethnic Russian. Ethnicity - Greek people, Russian self-name.
  19. Robert Nevsky
    Robert Nevsky 30 January 2016 18: 57 New
    +1
    The West is savage !!!
  20. skif1967
    skif1967 30 January 2016 19: 44 New
    +1
    Quote: ver_
    ... there are some hiccups .., namely: the baptism of Russia took place in the 15th century, and not at the time of Christ (Prince Andrey Bogolyubsky 1152-1185) .. Our ancestors were pagans and resisted attempts to impose a single god. In the 15th century, a split of the Church took place and a part of the "electorate" adopted Islam (Moses - Prince of Tver - founded Kazan and then moved to Constantinople where he "founded" the Ataman Empire - later the Ottoman Empire turned out .. So with the history of Rome it is not quite so - or rather not at all - Guy Julius Caesar is written off from George Yuri Dolgoruky - Caesar - the firstborn .., what can we say about Roman Law, when the Roman Empire did not exist at all .. Alexander the Great = Aleksandr Nevsky .. History is not a science ...

    What idiocy
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 30 January 2016 20: 19 New
      +4
      Do you think we have few patients? Not so much that they were kept behind the windows with bars, but ... that's enough for that. And you can’t say anything: a citizen of the Russian Federation has the right to choose (!) And be elected (!).
  21. tacet
    tacet 30 January 2016 20: 28 New
    +2
    Not a bad article, only "about some sagittarius who stood with drawn bows in the stands and vigilantly watched the course of the battle." stupidity. The protection was obvious, only to hold the bow vnatyag hands quickly get tired, and the northern fur-bearing animal will come to the bow.
  22. Bashibuzuk
    Bashibuzuk 30 January 2016 21: 19 New
    +2
    H-h ... peacocks, you say ....
    .
    Guys, I understand, to "historians" in the traditional chronology ... my reasoning, of course, seems to be like that of a patient at the Kanatchikova dacha.
    I do not argue.
    Free will, doctor of science - buzz. Believe it.
    And I perceive everything by touch and my sensations, given to us in realities.
    .
    Weakly read this - ... http: //nasch-mir.ru/mistifikator-podzho-brachcholini / ...
    Weak on similar sites ...
    It’s weak to find out - why suddenly Isaac, our Nevton .... became interested ... in the inadequacy of the Moon and constant gravity.
    .
    And THE MOST IMPORTANT THING, I do not believe that a person could suddenly become idiotic.
    Out of the blue.
    There was "brilliant, great Ancient ROME". The monoliths of cohorts and legions terrified the ancient barbarians.
    Then the barbarians ceased to be horrified, defeated this very bv.DR - and turned into IDIOTS.
    Until the Renaissance.
    ....
    So it happens, Vyacheslav Pavlovich?
    Your materials suggest otherwise.
    .
    It seems like the Bolsheviks overwhelmed tsarist Russia, turned into nerd-starred ones and that’s all! ... and for seventy years they sat, sucked .. who’s paw, who the hell ..., well, who found what to suck.
    And then came - the Russian Federation.
    .
    don't find parallels ... but sorry.
    .
    I don’t know, honestly, whom and for the patients ... to keep.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 30 January 2016 22: 12 New
      +1
      There will be an article about this for you! I knew that sooner or later, but this foam would come up. So the material is already zashashnik at the publisher. Starting Monday, new materials will be released, and among them - about Rome. And by the way, it’s very good that you noticed about idiots! Imagine, I also noticed. I began to read, search - and found everything. And the cause and effect. And without alternative sites!
      I’m not Pavlovich - Olegovich, if this is you to me ...
      1. Bashibuzuk
        Bashibuzuk 30 January 2016 22: 35 New
        +4
        Olegovich .... yes, I was mistaken.
        .
        Foam is not here.
        Foam arose much earlier, starting with Norman theory.
        .
        Foam occurs when Putin begins to talk about Lenin ... they say, not that .. and not so.
        ..
        Foam occurs when suddenly all around suckers ... and some ROME ... great and mighty.
        .
        And EVERYTHING is the same.
        .
        Imagine, there is the United States with an iPhone and a Mac laptop ... and everyone around it uses Kauri on abacus and shells.

        After all, the same History is affirmed with the problem of Ancient Rome.
        They say there was one such, unique.
        Slightly slammed from Greece. A little at the Cimbri and Teutons. A little with the Druids. A little at the Etruscans. A little with the Egyptians.
        But there was ... finally YOURSELF. A kind of Chicken-in-Egg.
        .
        I do not believe.
        I do not believe.
        Thieves can be "chic, brilliant ... REST."
        .
        But they will never become Great.
        .
        Ergo - no figs to tell us tales.
        About brilliant, great, Ancient Rome.
        ....
        .
        Ancient Rome - WASN’T.
        There were states on the territory of the Apennine Peninsula.
        Famous states.
        Why did they need to replace their history - THIS IS THE QUESTION ...
        1. Bashibuzuk
          Bashibuzuk 30 January 2016 23: 10 New
          0
          Yes, the most important ... missed.
          ..
          In, for both of us, in understandable terms - this same FOAM is called -
          REVISIONISM.
          .
          both of us understand that this phenomenon has always been and will be.
          Only with 2x2 = 4 revisionism is not present.
          And then, if we use Euclidean geometry.
          And not Lobachevsky, say.
          Or Piontkovsky spaces.
          .
          Not everything is so clear ...
          it's me ... I’m not saying the daughter of an officer.
          And as an officer himself.
        2. Aqela
          Aqela 1 February 2016 01: 39 New
          0
          Cogito ergo sum!
          It is amusing to assert an opinion about fairy tales about Pax Romanum, I use Latin, or, in other words, ancient Roman words. Some kind of perverse irony.
  23. Valdis
    Valdis 30 January 2016 21: 46 New
    +2
    Have you watched the Spartacus series? A gladiator is not just a slave going to his death, this special caste, a brotherhood. For many who came to Rome as slaves, it is already an honor to be a slave in enlightened Rome. Law, cities, water supply, aesthetics that were not available to them at will. And to become a gladiator is a great honor! And most importantly NAME and glory, money only later on "whores" and wine. And how many of them survived, and how many sailed to Hades, we will never know. We can’t decide how many knight-dogs we killed at the Battle of the Ice, hundreds or a dozen.
    1. Glot
      Glot 30 January 2016 21: 53 New
      +5
      Spartak series watched?


      Probably, all the same, you should not study the history of feature films ...
      Although there was a series "Rome". Overall, I liked it. Pretty close to reality. And "Spartacus" ... this is pure Hollywood, so to speak.
      1. kalibr
        kalibr 30 January 2016 22: 16 New
        +1
        Remember the movie "Ducky" ... the duels are very cool, isn't it? But ... the Romans are hacked ... with short swords with a full swing. But they were injected! Stab! So cinema is cinema! And flies are flies, and cutlets are cutlets! This is exactly the way to approach all this!
        1. Severomor
          Severomor 31 January 2016 00: 19 New
          +2
          Quote: kalibr
          Remember the movie "Ducky" ... the duels are very cool, isn't it? But ... the Romans are hacked ... with short swords with a full swing. But they were injected! Stab! So cinema is cinema!


          I am also FOR! You cannot study history from films. But they mentioned the film "Pharaoh" and said how cool and similar everything is.

          The film "Cleopatra" ... a classic of the genre, with the whole family or a crowd of friends, beautiful, but breeeeed !!! The trireme was never found. Although one was created, with plastic oars and even gave a good move))))
          What about propelling and pushing devices on ships? Just a song, then the same with Batu Khan in the winter in the Suzdal forests of Evpatiy Kolovrat with stones and something else they threw water-drenched)))
          1. kalibr
            kalibr 31 January 2016 08: 21 New
            0
            Some films are better, more historical, some are worse. What historically can be taken why not. But only as a visualization, no more than drawings by J. Rava or Christa Hook. So you cannot study (there was no Ramses the 13th himself!), But you can use it wisely. In the same "Dakah" costumes are good!
          2. Pomeranian
            Pomeranian 1 February 2016 22: 20 New
            0
            Quote: Severomor
            Just a song, then the same with Batu Khan in the winter in the Suzdal forests of Evpatiy Kolovrat with stones and something else they threw water-drenched)))

            Counterargument, deign.
            1. Severomor
              Severomor 7 February 2016 02: 53 New
              0
              Quote: Pomoryanin
              Counterargument, deign.

              I'm sorry, I answer late. What is a counterargument? Do you believe about stone-throwers with the same weight of shells in the winter Vladimir-Suzdal forests?
              And please (c) (instead of a black white piano)))).
              The army in the 100500 thousand went in winter along riverbeds, 50 see snow (this is the superminimum !!!!!) in December. For God's sake.

              Logistics and logistics support. The army advances until the rear is behind.

              I repeat: Carl von Clausewitz "1812":
              “We could never understand those who so stubbornly uphold the idea that Napoleon should have chosen a different path for his return trip, and not the one along which he came. Where could he have been content with the army besides stockpiled warehouses? What could give the undeveloped terrain of the army, which could not lose time and was forced to constantly settle bivouacs in large masses? Which food commissioner would agree to go ahead of this army to requisition food, and which Russian institution would follow his orders? After all, in a week the whole army would starve to death. ”
              1. Pomeranian
                Pomeranian 8 February 2016 09: 12 New
                0
                Quote: Severomor
                Do you believe about stone-throwers with the same weight of shells in the winter Vladimir-Suzdal forests?

                In fact, you can shoot a log from a catapult, or will you object that there is no forest near Vladimir? By the way, you will be in Vladimir, go to the Golden Gate Museum and see what the Mongol troops were shooting at the walls with.
                Quote: Severomor
                The army in the 100500 thousand went in winter along riverbeds, 50 see snow (this is the superminimum !!!!!) in December. For God's sake.

                What's so surprising about that? You can always walk along the rivers. There would be ice. For me, who has experience of long hikes not along rivers, but in taiga and tundra, the statement about "the impossibility of walking on snow 50 cm deep" is generally surprising. Not without tension, but easy. Especially if a lot of people are involved. However, I repeat that Vladimir Russia in the 13th century was not a forest-swampy desert, there were roads and a lot of villages with graveyards, cities and other things.
                Shl. And about "flooded with water." Run an experiment out of curiosity. It seems like winter has come in the middle lane.
                1. Severomor
                  Severomor 12 February 2016 00: 28 New
                  0
                  Again, just read the soup))))

                  You understand, a lot of people - this is not an army. In the snow with a depth of 50 cm, even I, office plankton, pass)))). But here is the army !!! Horses should eat. And this is you. And tebenevka is ???? further with all ....))))

                  River width? Number of troops and its length ??? The trees sawed along? or chopped with an ax? If along, then a saw like "Friendship two-handed")), a file in the studio plz, you know why? By the way, I did not find a file, I was looking badly for mzht ...
      2. iouris
        iouris 31 January 2016 02: 50 New
        +3
        Here! The history of any country should be studied in Hollywood TV series. In Ukraine it is urgent for everyone to watch the Hollywood "Taras Bulba". There are Cossacks in Venetian costumes. Cultural! Glamorous!
        And the whole history of Russia is summarized in the song "Rasputin" by the "Boni M" group.
    2. Aqela
      Aqela 1 February 2016 01: 47 New
      +1
      Well, about hundreds of conversations can not be. There would not have been so many of them throughout the Teutonic Order. All for some reason, they forget that the knight was then a nobleman and a small-town ruler (in France he was called a chevalier), and the head of a spear detachment of five to a couple dozen well-trained people. In the Ice Battle, along with the Teutonic Knights, she also participated in all types of rubbish from the local miracle and other residents, who were at that time wild (even Estam and Curonians might find this assessment offensive). So even just a dozen knights could well lead a detachment of a couple of hundred snouts (or even much more) and work with it as an armored ram in the general system.
  24. Looking Petrovich
    Looking Petrovich 30 January 2016 22: 44 New
    0
    Yes. It can be assumed that spectacles with animals could be grandiose.
    Emperor Titus (reign: 79-81 AD), on the occasion of the consecration of the Coliseum in the 80th year, allowed to kill 9 animals in the arena (including marine ones, for which water was allowed to enter the Coliseum), or Trajan (reign: 000- 98 AD), who organized 117-day festivities in honor of his victory over the Dacians, during which about 120-10 animals were killed in the arena and thousands of gladiators met.
    1. Bashibuzuk
      Bashibuzuk 30 January 2016 22: 50 New
      0
      Pancake....
      Guys ... Have you ever considered an estimate for construction work?
      This is when it is known exactly what and how to do it.
      And the estimate for mass performances, you imagine what it is?
      When you need to rely on a certain, previously unknown number of viewers?
      And provide a payback?
      .
      Why suddenly it is believed that the dictator could simply wish - to arrange a presentation .... ???
      He would have his treasurers, they would explain the same in two accounts - you DUTY..and you, KAZOEL, personally to me, your treasurer, owe exactly five thousand two hundred and two talents.
      I'll take silver, even.
      Will be found?
      .
      Oh ... the eternal problem with reality.
      1. Aqela
        Aqela 1 February 2016 01: 53 New
        +2
        Bullshit is that at that time society was not capitalist, the question of self-sufficiency did not stand. By the way, then all the citizens of Rome also received bread for free. And agricultural production was much cheaper than artisanal production of goods (fuuu ... I almost said industrial production ...).
        1. kalibr
          kalibr 1 February 2016 14: 33 New
          +1
          And Caligula also opened a brothel, where any of his three sisters could be capitalized for 30.000 sisters. So they had money!
  25. Alekst
    Alekst 31 January 2016 08: 48 New
    0
    Quote: Bashibuzuk
    Pancake....
    Guys ... Have you ever considered an estimate for construction work?
    This is when it is known exactly what and how to do it.
    And the estimate for mass performances, you imagine what it is?
    When you need to rely on a certain, previously unknown number of viewers?
    And provide a payback?
    .
    Why suddenly it is believed that the dictator could simply wish - to arrange a presentation .... ???
    He would have his treasurers, they would explain the same in two accounts - you DUTY..and you, KAZOEL, personally to me, your treasurer, owe exactly five thousand two hundred and two talents.
    I'll take silver, even.
    Will be found?
    .
    Oh ... the eternal problem with reality.


    yyy)) I didn’t read it, I read it, it was so great .... the architect Napoleon built the pyramids in Egypt, and the estimate was preserved, only he encrypted it, a sort of prankster mystifier, like there would be something for the descendants to do ... and there weren’t any of the Napoleonic wars, these brilliant warriors could not, after a hundred years or so, merge with some Prussians in a couple of months ...
    1. Glot
      Glot 31 January 2016 10: 53 New
      +2
      and there were no Napoleonic wars, these brilliant warriors couldn’t merge with some sort of Prussians after a hundred or so years in a couple of months ...


      Of course it wasn’t. laughing According to Fomenko’s theory, the war of 1812 in Russia is a mirror image of the Second World War, and Napoleon is Hitler. laughing laughing laughing
      In general, there was nothing, humanity was only 500-600 years old, no more, as the Fomen say. laughing
  26. Jääkorppi
    Jääkorppi 31 January 2016 11: 23 New
    0
    Konstantin Nosov "Gladiators" is recommended for reading. This book has been translated and published by Osprey, which in itself indicates the quality of the work. The author of the article did not mention that gladiatorial combat was also used as a duel when Roman citizens wanted to sort things out and not go to court. A truly deadly battle took place in the career of a gladiator, on average, once every five years, and it was possible to work out a contract without really risking your own skin. Moreover, in a year it was possible to earn more than 5 years' earnings of a legionnaire (maybe I am mistaken, I am writing to memory). Although, to their credit, the battle was still fought not with fake weapons, but discerning spectators could make a scandal if they saw hack in the arena.
    Regarding the baptism of Russia, I ask discerning citizens not to forget about the borders of the country in the 9th century. And that most of modern Russia was inhabited by Finno-Ugric tribes, baptism and Russification of which lasted from the 10th to the 16th centuries (which later became the Rostov, Suzdal, Yaroslavl principalities and Belozersky, Vologda, Perm lands and the so-called Ingermanlandia)
    1. Pomeranian
      Pomeranian 1 February 2016 22: 25 New
      0
      Quote: JääKorppi
      Regarding the baptism of Russia, I ask discerning citizens not to forget about the country's borders in the 9 century.

      And do not forget that Princess Olga went to be baptized in Constantinople with her confessor, priest Gregory, whom the Byzantines placed in the "rank of gifts" below the pagan maids.
  27. Jääkorppi
    Jääkorppi 31 January 2016 11: 25 New
    0
    And the main entertainment of the Games in ancient Rome was racing and fighting with animals (bullfight in Latin America is a direct descendant of these traditions).
  28. unknown
    unknown 31 January 2016 16: 46 New
    0
    In modern Russia, in addition to Nosovsky and Fomenko, there are Valyanskiy and Kolyuzhny, Zhabenko, Kesler.
    Before the Zionist coup of 1917, Professor Morozov had his own version.
    And each of them has its own version of the story.

    In the West, such scientists are also enough.

    And all because the so-called traditional version of history created by the ASTROLOGIST and NUMEROLOGIST Scaliger has nothing to do with real history, being part of non-science fiction literature.

    By the way, in psychology there is the term RIGIDITY OF THINKING: this is the inability to change the program of action even in REALLY CHANGED conditions. And this is a clinic.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 1 February 2016 14: 36 New
      0
      Quote: ignoto
      In the West, such scientists are also enough.


      It seems that I know many English-speaking historians, but I don’t know such historians. Maybe give their names, it would be interesting to read.
  29. Volzhanin
    Volzhanin 1 February 2016 13: 57 New
    -1
    It is not clear what Russia has to do with baptism ...
    However, one thing is clear - the modern article does not stand up to absolutely no criticism. Academic science offers us such illogical and ridiculous nonsense that makes even fifth graders sick.
    Only none of the "beacons" of historical "science" offers at least some reasonable explanation for the monstrous amount of inconsistencies and contradictions, much less trying to create a more or less harmonious historical line.
    Hence, all the mess - what exists - does not correspond to reality, and "science" "can not give birth" or does not want anything new.
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 1 February 2016 14: 27 New
      -1
      Quote: Volzhanin
      a monstrous amount of inconsistencies and contradictions


      And you, of course, are a well-known author of scientific papers on all this "monstrous amount", all of them studied, classified, created a typology and ... do you know exactly what you are talking about? Or is this the impression of a turner-baker from reading popular books without any references to the primary sources either at the bottom of the page or at the end of the book itself? Or are you still familiar with academic science, very deeply and thoroughly? Doctor of Science, probably, that you are so categorically asserting ... Usually such statements are made either by very competent specialists or by ignorant people. It remains to find out which of these hypostases you belong to!
    2. Glot
      Glot 1 February 2016 16: 32 New
      0
      However, one thing is clear - the modern article does not stand up to absolutely no criticism.


      Do you criticize her? What exactly ? Although, if "iztoriya" then further can not continue, after all, the Jews are to blame, right? laughing

      Academic science offers us such illogical and ridiculous nonsense that makes even fifth graders sick.


      Is that you about yourself? Toxicosis can ...? Although, a fifth grader ... Or a fifth grader? laughing

      Only none of the "beacons" of historical "science" offers at least some reasonable explanation for the monstrous amount of inconsistencies and contradictions, much less trying to create a more or less harmonious historical line.


      Well, you can give at least a couple of dozen of this "monstrous number" as an example. And at the same time, and "more or less harmonious historical line" in my opinion again.

      Hence, all the crap - that is, is not true


      Of course, the actual course of history is well known to you.

      but "science" "can not give birth" or does not want anything new.


      Again about childbirth ... No, it’s toxicosis! laughing
      1. Volzhanin
        Volzhanin 2 February 2016 13: 03 New
        +1
        If necessary, I my point of view with ease I will prove it.
        Leave your Jewish approaches. I am not being fooled by them.
        1. Glot
          Glot 2 February 2016 13: 12 New
          -1
          If necessary, I can easily prove my point of view.
          Leave your Jewish approaches. I am not being fooled by them.


          Well, what’s the matter, prove it. And then only you can say anything at all. In the meantime, one empty bullshit and no more.
          That's it. laughing
          Yes, better not even me. You go to the RAS, to the Department of History and present there, with ease, as you say. But I'm afraid they will send you with ease too. laughing laughing laughing
        2. The comment was deleted.
  30. arnulla
    arnulla 1 February 2016 19: 26 New
    +2
    Informative article. Plus definitely
  31. Veteran2016
    Veteran2016 1 February 2016 19: 58 New
    +1
    Quote: ILDM1986
    Goblin recently Klim Zhukov fiercely dawned on Fomenkovtsy. right up to tears good

    Are you sure about the objectivity of Goblin and Klim? Why are they unilaterally "exposing"? Could invite opponents to publicly "dishonor" them. Besides, there may be an even more subtle game here. They are all at the same time. Just of different stripes and caliber. And their task is to lead and confuse even more ordinary people.
    Just look at these "whistleblowers" :)))
    1. kalibr
      kalibr 1 February 2016 23: 18 New
      0
      You know, if you study history as a science, that is, study it, say, for five years at least and do not make hasty conclusions all this time, then ... perhaps you will understand that no one wants to confuse anyone. Basically, everything has been open for a long time and only details are being specified. And tens of thousands of specialists cannot be wrong, and two of them can be right, moreover, they were told what they were wrong about. And to argue publicly with ignoramuses and ... clinically abnormal people is not to respect yourself. There are good words in the Bible about this: "" Do not argue with a fool because of his foolishness, so as not to become like him; do not argue with a fool because of his foolishness, lest he be exalted. "
      1. Pomeranian
        Pomeranian 2 February 2016 13: 09 New
        +1
        Quote: kalibr
        Basically, everything has long been open and only details are being specified.

        But Michael Kremo disagrees with you. And I will disagree. I will say in the words of the poet, our William, that "there is a lot in the world, friend Horatio, that our wise men never dreamed of," besides, professionals often have "blurred eyes", but dogmas are crushing ..
  32. maxgod84
    maxgod84 1 February 2016 20: 10 New
    +1
    wrestling))))
  33. Pomeranian
    Pomeranian 1 February 2016 22: 14 New
    +2
    The owner of the gladiatorial school, lanista, salve !. Good work. I remember reading some German "Rome, Slaves, Gladiators", it indicated that the battle to the death was only at a funeral, with criminals, or at some celebrations. And so - really, wrestling.
  34. tiaman.76
    tiaman.76 2 February 2016 21: 42 New
    +1
    test article ... by the way, there is an opinion of the gladiators at that time were, as it were, with ... the symbols of their time .. and some eminent widows of the matrons married or became their lovers
  35. Warrior2015
    Warrior2015 15 February 2016 23: 43 New
    0
    Eeehhh ... I do not want to answer everyone, I will say a couple of general points:

    First, it's hard to tell from whom gladiator games were borrowed. Probably still not from the Etruscans. They had some ritual fights at memorial meals, rather without death, like a dance (they had a special human sacrifice - this was a separate topic).

    Most likely, the army of the maniac Hannibal (read the details about the same Sagunt) borrowed something similar from the Celts with their bloody traditions of ritual battles and generally very developed practice of human sacrifices (these are also those perverts, although Punyans with their disgusting practices of infant sacrifices Molochu and Tannit they also horrified not only the then Romans, but any adequate modern man).

    And when she "lodged" in Italy, she repeatedly practiced similar ritual and recreational battles. The Romans simply "learned bad" from the Celts or the soldiers of Carthage, but initially all this was in scanty quantities.

    Then, starting from about 1 century. BC, and the scale, and enchanting, and mortality of these "shows" began to increase and reached a peak apparently in the 1-3 centuries. After that, due to financial crises and permanent civil wars, the scale decreases.

    As a result, after the reforms of Constantine, after the abolition of anti-Christian laws and the equation of the rights of Christians with other religions, gladiatorism remained the lot of the chosen, only the most uprooted lovers of blood and carrion. But freedom is right, what to do ...

    And as a result, the Christian emperors, especially Theodosius, who no longer just made equal with others, but gave full civil rights only to Christians in the empire, and they finally banned such "brutal games" in 380 AD.

    Although the most degenerate creatures, in the same old Rome, even during the siege of his Goths in the 410 year, they organized the last gladiatorial battles, and did not go to protect the walls ...