Military Review

The representative of the Navy: the construction of diesel-electric submarines "Lada" will be terminated

96
Submarines of the 677 "Lada" project will no longer be built, funding will be directed to the "Kalina" project (improved "Lada"), reports Look with reference to RIA News.




At the moment, the head boat of the St. Petersburg project is undergoing testing, the other two are being built at the Admiralty Shipyards.

"Command fleet decided to finish building two boats of Project 677 "Lada" and stop construction on this. All three boats of this project will be included in the combat structure of the Baltic Fleet. Financing will be directed to the Kalina project, ”an unnamed Navy representative told the agency.

According to him, the new project "Kalina", on which the Central Design Bureau "Rubin" is working, provides for the installation of an anaerobic (air independent) power plant on the submarine.

Help newspaper: "The head submarine of the project 677" St. Petersburg "(code" Lada ") was laid in 1997 year, launched in 2004 year and is in trial operation of the Navy with 2010 year. The ship’s displacement is 1765 tons, the maximum immersion depth of 300 meters, the crew of 35 people, autonomy up to 45 days. "
Photos used:
bastion-opk.ru
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  1. inkass_98
    inkass_98 19 January 2016 16: 03 New
    +9
    It’s high time, the Germans are already operating such boats with might and main.
    1. oldseaman1957
      oldseaman1957 19 January 2016 16: 30 New
      13
      Quote: inkass_98
      the Germans are already operating such boats with might and main.
      - What is not being done is for the better. A non-volatile power plant is not a step, it is a leap forward!
      1. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 19 January 2016 16: 40 New
        +6
        Quote: oldseaman1957
        this is not a step, this is a leap forward!

        For us, yes, this is a leap to catch up with the leaders.
        1. Inok10
          Inok10 19 January 2016 17: 16 New
          16
          Quote: Vladimirets
          For us, yes, this is a leap to catch up with the leaders.

          ... leadership is a conditional concept .. ours took a completely different path when creating an anaerobic (non-volatile) power plant .. well, who has managed to solve the problem better and cheaper, we will see .. hi
          1. Vladimirets
            Vladimirets 19 January 2016 17: 24 New
            +2
            Quote: Inok10
            ours completely went the other way when creating an anaerobic (non-volatile) power plant

            While ours go, others already go, sorry for the pun. You can continue to minus, but China, France, Sweden, Japan, Germany, the United States have or had boats with VNEU, so talking about our “leap” is not particularly appropriate. request
            1. dauria
              dauria 19 January 2016 17: 29 New
              +5
              so talking about our “leap” is not particularly appropriate.


              So you are aware of our principle of VNU? Or, still not? Well, and if it is, for example, a mini-reactor for charging the battery? Of course, I am also a frenzied pessimist, but not to the same extent smile (no offense)

              This is true, note:
              Recently, an American consortium of federal laboratories for technology transfer (FLC) presented the Notable Technology Development Award from Hyperion Power Generation from Santa Fe. An outstanding achievement is Hyperion Power Module, an almost domestic nuclear power reactor.

              Hyperion is an extremely compact plant powered by low enriched uranium. It is capable of delivering electrical power of 25-27 megawatts
              1. Vladimirets
                Vladimirets 19 January 2016 17: 35 New
                +2
                Quote: dauria
                So you are aware of our principle of VNU?

                Of course not. Only comrade like too
                Quote: oldseaman1957
                A non-volatile power plant is not a step, it is a leap forward!

                Quote: dauria
                Of course, I am also a frenzied pessimist, but not to the same extent

                Yes, I'm not a pessimist, just screaming cheers! a bit early.
                Quote: dauria
                (no offense)

                Yes, what insults. hi
              2. sa-ag
                sa-ag 19 January 2016 17: 46 New
                +5
                Quote: dauria
                Are you aware of our principle of VNU?

                Well, they wrote like that - producing hydrogen by reforming solariums and burning it in fuel cells, then to an electric motor
              3. Inok10
                Inok10 19 January 2016 18: 19 New
                14
                Quote: dauria
                Hyperion is an extremely compact plant powered by low enriched uranium. It is capable of delivering electrical power of 25-27 megawatts

                .. exactly .. low enriched uranium .. ours went, as always, in a different way ..
                The first prototype of a new atomic power source - the so-called nuclear battery - will appear in Russia by 2017, said Peter Gavrilov, director of the FSUE MCC (Mining and Chemical Combine, part of Rosatom).
                Such “charging” based on the beta radiation source of the nickel-63 isotope can supply electronic devices with power for almost 50 years. The manufacture of the new device is based on the beta-voltaic effect, due to which beta radiation is converted into electricity. The atomic power source has huge potential in the space industry, various underwater systems, medicine and the defense industry, and in the future in the transport industry.
                We have already made targets, nickel-62 in Zheleznogorsk has already been worked out, in October we plan to load the targets in the reactor, it will take about a year, ”Tavs Gavrilova said.“ That is, at the end of 2016 we will produce nickel-63. By 2017, the first prototype of such a battery will appear, it is premature to expect earlier. ”
                The uniqueness of the atomic battery is also in size. Compared to lithium-ion batteries, the nickel-63 battery is 30 times smaller. In addition, it is environmentally friendly and harmless to humans due to the production of soft beta radiation, which is self-absorbing inside the battery and does not go out.
                .. hi
                1. BaLaLaykin
                  BaLaLaykin 19 January 2016 20: 05 New
                  +3
                  If you recall, as soon as Kiriyenko was not called up when he was Prime Minister, then as General Director of ROSATOM he came in very handy
                  1. ver_
                    ver_ 20 January 2016 08: 12 New
                    0
                    ... announce the whole list, please ..
              4. Boa kaa
                Boa kaa 19 January 2016 19: 12 New
                +5
                Quote: dauria
                Hyperion is an extremely compact installation
                A colleague, this is a coastal, not a transport reactor. The difference in the volume of ZHVZ, pitching, and other "elements of movement". Let me remind you that the Dollezhal egg (VAU-6) was born much earlier (1985) and was transported on the 651E project (pla K / B-68) until 1993. yes
                And do not say anything about the transport version of Hyperion? repeat
              5. MMX
                MMX 19 January 2016 21: 47 New
                +1
                This is true, note:
                Recently, an American consortium of federal laboratories for technology transfer (FLC) presented the Notable Technology Development Award from Hyperion Power Generation from Santa Fe. An outstanding achievement is Hyperion Power Module, an almost domestic nuclear power reactor.

                Hyperion is an extremely compact plant powered by low enriched uranium. It is capable of delivering electrical power of 25-27 megawatts


                What does this have to do with the Kalina project?
              6. Technical engineer
                Technical engineer 19 January 2016 22: 27 New
                +3
                Quote: dauria
                Recently, an American consortium of federal laboratories for technology transfer (FLC) presented the Notable Technology Development Award from Hyperion Power Generation from Santa Fe. An outstanding achievement is Hyperion Power Module, an almost domestic nuclear power reactor.


                At the beginning of the 60-x, in the USSR, a small-sized nuclear power plant WOW-6 with a capacity of 600 kW was created. She was supposed to be placed in an airtight container, mounted under a sturdy hull in the rear of the DIESEL SUBMARINE !!! to provide her with a long underwater stroke and recharge batteries. A more powerful installation of “0-153” was created for the same purpose. So that the Americans caught up with the USSR hi
            2. Inok10
              Inok10 19 January 2016 17: 36 New
              17
              Quote: Vladimirets
              While ours go, others already go, sorry for the pun. You can continue to minus, but China, France, Sweden, Japan, Germany, the United States have or had boats with VNEU, so talking about our “leap” is not particularly appropriate.

              .. I don’t put any cons in the discussions .. and let them go as much as they like .. the German installation requires a supply of high purity hydrogen and drags the supply in cylinders .. but how will it end ?! .. hydrogen then? .. mustache sailed? .. our project provides for the production of hydrogen directly on board, from diesel fuel by the reforming method .. the United States does not have diesel boats at all, this is so for information .. in Russia there has been a proverb for centuries: .. Measure seven times, cut once .. hi
            3. goose
              goose 19 January 2016 17: 41 New
              12
              Quote: Vladimirets
              While ours go, others already go, sorry for the pun. You can continue to minus, but China, France, Sweden, Japan, Germany, the United States have or had boats with VNEU, so talking about our “leap” is not particularly appropriate.

              This is what kind of submarine in the USA has VNEU?
              It seemed to me that only the Germans and the Japanese had modern VNEUs, the rest had semi-experimental installations, like ours on the Lada.
              1. Vladimirets
                Vladimirets 19 January 2016 17: 51 New
                -3
                Quote: Inok10
                the US doesn’t have diesel boats at all

                Quote: goose
                This is what kind of submarine in the USA has VNEU?

                Not now. But, in the United States under the state programs "US Navy Ship Service Fuel Cell Program" and "US Navy Advanced Fuel Cell Program" by Energy Research Corporation, Ballard, McDermott Technology, Inc. power plants based on AFC, PEMFC and SOFC were created using hydrogen or JP-5, JP-8, F-76 (Navy Distillate Fuel) as fuel.
                1. Inok10
                  Inok10 19 January 2016 18: 02 New
                  +7
                  Quote: Vladimirets
                  Not now. But, in the United States under the state programs "US Navy Ship Service Fuel Cell Program" and "US Navy Advanced Fuel Cell Program" by Energy Research Corporation, Ballard, McDermott Technology, Inc. power plants based on AFC, PEMFC and SOFC were created

                  .. really so .. but you need to negotiate to the end .. the full quote is:
                  In the US as part of the US Navy Ship Service Fuel government program
                  Cell Program and US Navy Advanced Fuel Cell Program by Energy
                  Research Corporation, Ballard, McDermott Technology, Inc. energy
                  AFC, PEMFC, and SOFC based plants, used as fuel
                  hydrogen-containing or JP-5, JP-8, F-76 (Navy Distillate Fuel) up to 2500 kW. Currently, low-power installations for ground equipment and uninhabited underwater vehicles have been developed. focused on the use of "single fuel" of NATO. This simplifies their supply, which is important when conducting NATO operations on remote theater.
                  .. highlighted .. the most important .. Source: Romanov A.D., Romanov I.D., Chernyshov E.A., Romanova E.A. Development of con-
                  “single fuel” chains in NATO countries // International Journal of Applied and
                  basic research. - 2014. - No. 9. - S. 34-37. .. hi
              2. Boa kaa
                Boa kaa 19 January 2016 19: 28 New
                +1
                Quote: goose
                This is what kind of submarine in the USA has VNEU?

                I apologize! But the question is inherently incorrect!
                For ALL submarines go to nuclear weapons, working without air. Therefore, the answer is logical: 100% of US submarines - have air-independent power plants. But the crew still breathes air! Therefore, no fleet has 100% non-volatile submarines yet! sad
                It would be more correct to say: what kind of USA has NPLs? yes
            4. VP
              VP 19 January 2016 18: 27 New
              +5
              This is when you have China, USA, France managed to build diesel-electric submarines with VNEU?
              Do not tell the names of the head?
              Only two countries have. And then the concepts of VNEU are ambiguous.
              1. Vladimirets
                Vladimirets 19 January 2016 19: 30 New
                +2
                Quote: VP
                This is when you have China, USA, France managed to build diesel-electric submarines with VNEU?
                Do not tell the names of the head?

                It is possible that the Chinese type 041 is already equipped with VNEU. The French have Agosta and Scorpio. About Americans here http://topwar.ru/72632-nerealizovannyy-amerikanskiy-proekt-podvodnogo-sredstva-d
                ostavki-boevyh-plovcov.html
              2. GRAY
                GRAY 19 January 2016 21: 44 New
                +1
                Quote: VP
                This is when you have China, USA, France managed to build diesel-electric submarines with VNEU?

                In the USSR, in the 50s, tests of boats with VNEU took place.
                After the war in the USSR, one of the deputies of Helmut Walter, a certain Franz Statetskiy, expressed a desire to work. Statetski and the “technical intelligence” group for the export of military technology from Germany under the leadership of Admiral L. A. Korshunov found in Germany the Bruner-Kanis-Raider company, which was a subcontractor in the manufacture of Walther’s turbine units.

                To copy a German submarine with Walther’s propulsion system, first in Germany and then in the USSR under the leadership of A. A. Antipin an “Antipin Bureau” was created, an organization from which, thanks to the efforts of the chief designer of the submarines (captain I rank) A. A. Antipin the Rubin LMBP and the Malachite SPMB were formed.

                The task of the bureau was to copy the achievements of the Germans in new submarines (diesel, electric, steam and gas turbines), but the main task was to repeat the speeds of German submarines with the Walter cycle.

                As a result of the work done, it was possible to completely restore the documentation, manufacture (partly from German, partly from newly manufactured units) and test the steam and gas turbine installation of German boats of the XXVI series.

                After that, it was decided to build a Soviet submarine with the engine of Walter. Subject development of submarines with PSTU Walter called the project 617.
                In 1951, a project 617 boat, called the S-99, was laid in Leningrad at factory No. 196. On April 21, 1955, the boat was put to state tests completed on March 20, 1956. The test results indicate: ... For the first time, an underwater speed of 20 knots was reached for 6 hours ....

                In 1956-1958, Project 643 large boats were designed with a surface displacement of 1865 tons and already with two Voltaire State Technical University. However, in connection with the creation of a preliminary design of the first Soviet submarines with nuclear power plants, the project was closed. But the research at the Perm State Technical University of the S-99 boat did not stop, but was transferred to the mainstream of considering the possibility of using the Walter engine in the giant T-15 torpedo under development with an atomic charge, proposed by Sakharov to destroy US naval bases and ports. The T-15 was supposed to have a length of 24 m, an underwater range of up to 40-50 miles, and carry a thermonuclear warhead capable of causing an artificial tsunami to destroy coastal cities of the United States.
            5. Technical engineer
              Technical engineer 19 January 2016 22: 18 New
              +1
              The first such boats were the Germans during the war years, the second the USSR in the fifties. So, you should not think that anaerobic plants, something new. Just something anaerobic submarines will be inferior to conventional diesel-electric submarines. Although the other is superior. The question is simply which parameter is in priority. Underwater speed or noiselessness.
            6. Victor bg
              Victor bg 20 January 2016 10: 56 New
              +1
              Something reminds me of "Lada-viburnum" (I write from Tolyatti ..)
      2. Aleksey_K
        Aleksey_K 19 January 2016 17: 36 New
        +7
        Quote: oldseaman1957
        Quote: inkass_98
        the Germans are already operating such boats with might and main.
        - What is not being done is for the better. A non-volatile power plant is not a step, it is a leap forward!

        Why on earth was this a leap forward? I would call it a belated recognition of foreign achievements.
        In Sweden, in 1988, the Nakken-type head submarine was converted to Stirling engines. With them she went under water for more than 10 000 hours. The Swedes ushered in an era of submarine shipbuilding ancillary anaerobic propulsion systems.
        Russia at that time (USSR), under the control of the traitor Gorbachev, began to slide into the abyss. The submarine fleet was not up to anaerobic propulsion systems.
        1. Inok10
          Inok10 19 January 2016 17: 46 New
          +8
          Quote: Алексей_К
          Why on earth was this a leap forward? I would call it a belated recognition of foreign achievements.
          In Sweden, in 1988, the Nakken-type head submarine was converted to Stirling engines. With them she went under water for more than 10 000 hours. The Swedes ushered in an era of submarine shipbuilding ancillary anaerobic propulsion systems.

          .. different approach to solving the problem .. The characteristics of the new Russian engine were not disclosed, but it is known for sure: it belongs to the type of air-independent power plants. Such engines have the most advanced German diesel-electric submarines of the U-212 and U-214 projects to date. The Russian anaerobic power plant is based on the conversion of chemical energy into electrical energy without movement and combustion. In fact, it is an electrochemical generator where a chemical reaction occurs - a combination of oxygen and hydrogen, while the electricity is released silently, and the only by-product of the process is distilled water. The efficiency of such an installation reaches 70 percent, and the noise level of the submarine on the anaerobic course is lower than natural sea noise .. hi
          1. NIKNN
            NIKNN 19 January 2016 20: 23 New
            +4
            Quote: Inok10
            and the noise level of the submarine on the anaerobic course is lower than natural sea noise ..

            Sorry amateur but did not understand how? Doesn't she have screws and related moving parts? What is the principle of propulsion? repeat
        2. FREGATENKAPITAN
          FREGATENKAPITAN 19 January 2016 21: 30 New
          +1
          10000 hours is how? At a time? Or even an hour 10000 times? ..... More specifically, write if you understand the essence of the problem ...... about. What to write .... about air-independent installations already wrote ... I will not repeat ... the fact that the boats ours went already in the 50-60s such ...
      3. APASUS
        APASUS 19 January 2016 18: 39 New
        -1
        Quote: oldseaman1957
        Quote: inkass_98
        the Germans are already operating such boats with might and main.
        - What is not being done is for the better. A non-volatile power plant is not a step, it is a leap forward!

        What kind of hatcozacidones again?
        The Americans do not build closed-loop boats on the basis of anaerobic tubes although a similar engine was created back in 1986, but why not answer? The USSR and now Russia has been carrying out technological development for almost 50 years and .......... .
        The Germans came to the conclusion that there is a dead end in this technology and are slowly starting to abandon it.
        I consider the refusal to build Project 677 Lada boats to be a mistake, according to available information our engine still has "childhood illnesses" and needs to be improved, I'm not talking about what is inferior to German.
        The reports of the American Physical Society and the National Academy of Sciences of the USA note: in order to implement the program of widespread use of hydrogen energy it is necessary to make a technological breakthrough in at least 100 areas of modern science
        1. FREGATENKAPITAN
          FREGATENKAPITAN 19 January 2016 21: 33 New
          0
          The Germans came to the conclusion that there is a dead end in this technology and are slowly starting to abandon it....... that’s the truth ... I’ll supplement my post above ... that in the 60s ours already went and then the program was closed.
      4. Evgeniy667b
        Evgeniy667b 20 January 2016 10: 31 New
        0
        What kind of leap is it? So far, only one projection with a smart look. And the Goal goes farther and farther ... So that there will be no alternative to the Varshavyanka for a long time. They must be built! And not 6 regular for the Pacific Fleet, but much more ...
    2. Platonich
      Platonich 20 January 2016 06: 03 New
      0
      the Swedes invented it in 1988!
  2. Maxom75
    Maxom75 19 January 2016 16: 05 New
    +1
    Apparently, what was expected didn’t go, did you decide to immediately jump over the generation?
    1. shans2
      shans2 19 January 2016 18: 30 New
      0
      just project 677 "Lada" is unsuccessful, it is easier to create a new one from scratch, taking into account new developments
    2. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 19 January 2016 18: 46 New
      11
      Quote: Maxom75
      Apparently, what was expected didn’t go, did you decide to immediately jump over the generation?

      A series of 3 (5th generation, Lada) essentially became a test ball for the introduction of non-nuclear energy in submarines (NPL).
      By the end of construction, St. Petersburg did not receive the installation promised by the industry. The stand and compartment on the submarine are two big differences, as they said in Odessa. The bench VNEU on the ship did not pull ... 60 (70)% of the nominal is the failure to fulfill the TTZ. No one will take responsibility by deciding on the construction of a large series of "undersets"? Vysotsky, just as he merged Bark, merged and Lada, saying that the fleet did not need such boats.
      Then the naval "drew attention" to the "miraculous" capabilities of LIAB !!! And already the designers from Rubin screeched about the amazing capacity of such batteries, giving from one element at 2500 h / A for underwater travel. As a way out of the situation, they decided to put them on the 2nd building of the Lada (Kronshtadt) and see what comes of it. (The third is still reserved under VNEU). But the intrigue developed further.
      Brothers "Tatars" from the Kazan Institute of Organic and Physical Chemistry named after AE Arbuzova, "experimenting" with palladium and platinum membranes, suddenly found that the precious "products" can be replaced (without compromising the quality of hydrogen) with organic !!! And immediately everything becomes profitable: the price drops, the attractiveness of the "non-gold" installation increases sharply.
      Next, more. "Sarov" skated our VNEU at sea. It reached its design capacity (300, according to other sources - 400 kW), while the best "ruby fucking" installations = only 180 kW. The light dawned at the end of the tunnel!
      Science and promises have sworn on the Bible that they will do by 2018, and by 2019 they will put a transport version of the installation on the ship. Therefore, Chirkov, leaving the reserve, decided to build Kalina. The Queen in the Northern Fleet needs nuclear-powered submarines and 6th generation nuclear submarines to close the BMZ fleet and to ensure the deployment of the main missile-based submarine. Therefore, Lada with the whole herd and go to the BF! What is very good for the fleet, because who will comb Gotland.
      That's where the foreign interest in our VNEU came from.
      And Kalina - it is cured from childhood diseases Lada. But an ambush is also expected here if our experimenters fulfill the threat of equipping the ship with modular structures and uninhabited underwater vehicles. Then we will definitely wait until 2025 for the wunderwaffle of the domestic fleet, which has no analogues in the world.
      Yours faithfully, hi
      1. Nehist
        Nehist 20 January 2016 01: 39 New
        0
        Since when is Lada the fifth generation?
  3. Marconi41
    Marconi41 19 January 2016 16: 05 New
    +6
    Which, in fact, was required to prove. Everyone (the factory, the fleet) suffered with Lada and finally abandoned her. We are waiting for Kalina, perhaps it will be a more successful version of the DPL. By the way, in the USSR and Russia there were very few unsuccessful submarine projects. Perhaps, apart from Lada, nothing else comes to mind.
    1. Stirbjorn
      Stirbjorn 19 January 2016 16: 14 New
      10
      Yes, how many cheers there were in the articles about her, but in fact the project was closed. The 8th year of trial operation says a lot. I hope Kalina will turn out to be truly new and modern
      1. V.ic
        V.ic 19 January 2016 16: 37 New
        +2
        Quote: Stirbjorn
        The 8th year of trial operation says a lot. I hope Kalina will turn out to be truly new and modern

        No wonder Alla Borisovna sang: "if you suffer for a long time, something will work out."
        1. Ajent cho
          Ajent cho 19 January 2016 17: 22 New
          0
          Alla Borisovna sang

          Words: Derbenev L.
          Music: Zatsepin A.
          Pugacheva was only a performer. Good, but - all his life a performer.
          1. Locksmith
            Locksmith 20 January 2016 07: 28 New
            0
            Quote: Ajent Cho
            Pugacheva was only a performer. Good, but - all his life a performer.

            She and her songs are full, and as a composer and as a poetess, see carefully the discography wink
    2. Aksakal_07
      Aksakal_07 19 January 2016 16: 30 New
      +8
      Quote: Marconi41
      We are waiting for Kalina, perhaps it will be a more successful version of the DPL. By the way, in the USSR and Russia there were very few unsuccessful submarine projects. Perhaps, apart from Lada, nothing else comes to mind.

      I hope the submarines of the Kalina and Lada series still won’t repeat the fate of the Soviet-Russian cars of the same name ?!
      1. nekot
        nekot 19 January 2016 17: 13 New
        +4
        We must immediately go to Vesta)))
      2. Anton Gavrilov
        Anton Gavrilov 19 January 2016 17: 56 New
        0
        I hope the submarines of the Kalina and Lada series still won’t repeat the fate of the Soviet-Russian cars of the same name ?!


        But Lada has already repeated the news of the completion of the series on 3's ships, and the order of 6 Warsaw for the Pacific Fleet is proof of this.

        The construction of Kalina will unfold in the middle of the next decade.

        If the story with Lada repeats here, then the gap between us and a number of enemies in the NAPL will be calculated already for two generations ....
    3. avt
      avt 19 January 2016 16: 32 New
      +2
      Quote: Marconi41
      . Everyone (the factory, the fleet) suffered with Lada and finally abandoned her. We are waiting for Kalina, perhaps it will be a more successful version of the DPL.

      I already wrote yesterday - the Swedes should be asked immediately to make ,, Vesta "with sterling. laughing But seriously, there are NO replacements for the 636th project, as evidenced by yesterday’s message about the series for the 636.6s TOF, and there IS NOTHING to build anything besides it - well, they will complete two more buildings of the 677s, but the campaign must be in option 636 bis, but rather 636 K, well, by analogy with the 68 cruisers completed as 68K. Alas! It remains only to wait for a new project not earlier than the 20th.
      1. goose
        goose 19 January 2016 17: 44 New
        0
        Quote: avt
        Well, by analogy with the 68 cruisers completed as 68K

        And yet, the work of the cruisers was found.
      2. sa-ag
        sa-ag 19 January 2016 17: 47 New
        +1
        Quote: avt
        I already wrote yesterday - the Swedes should be asked immediately to make ,, Vesta "with sterling.

        Better than the Japanese, they have the most powerful stirling on Sorya
        1. avt
          avt 19 January 2016 21: 48 New
          0
          Quote: sa-ag
          Better than the Japanese, they have the most powerful stirling on Sorya

          no These then we ,, Carol "some sort of bungled. laughing
    4. DenZ
      DenZ 19 January 2016 16: 39 New
      +5
      It’s impossible to say so unambiguously whether Lada is successful or not, the decisions worked out on it will go to 2 Kalina, "therefore, Lada, etc., is generally not a dead end branch of development.
    5. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 19 January 2016 20: 06 New
      +6
      Quote: Marconi41
      Everyone (the factory, the fleet) suffered with Lada and finally abandoned her.
      More than 677 inventions, models of equipment and new technical solutions were introduced at the 130 project. All of them are on the ship and are being tested by sea in real conditions. On Lada, "childhood diseases" of this technique are identified and eliminated. The boat is in trial operation, but this does not mean that it is unable to accept the knowledge base and complete the task. On the ship, science and industry are permanent people, the boat is not crammed into the schedules for using the fleet, so the work on fine-tuning the equipment goes without interference. And you say, "abandoned."
      1. Stirbjorn
        Stirbjorn 19 January 2016 20: 51 New
        0
        Quote: BoA KAA
        More than 677 inventions, models of equipment and new technical solutions were introduced at the 130 project. All of them are on the ship and are being tested by sea in real conditions. On Lada, "childhood diseases" of this technique are identified and eliminated. The boat is in trial operation, but this does not mean that it is unable to accept the knowledge base and complete the task. On the ship, science and industry are permanent people, the boat is not crammed into the schedules for using the fleet, so the work on fine-tuning the equipment goes without interference. And you say, "abandoned."

        They abandoned it because an order for 6 “Varshavyanka” is being prepared at the Pacific Fleet, and not more advanced, in words, “Lad” - this is the main argument.
        1. Boa kaa
          Boa kaa 19 January 2016 22: 04 New
          +4
          Quote: Stirbjorn
          an order is being prepared for the Pacific Fleet for 6 “Varshavyanka”, and not more advanced, in words, “Lad” - this is the main argument.
          Submarine pr 636.3 is 2 times larger, which corresponds to the Ocean scale. Then, Tryapichnikov (personally familiar) spoke about the revision under the Pacific Fleet. LIAB will probably get it. Then, the boat has great modernization potential. VNEU will work, they will pierce the compartment - here you have NAPL. And in terms of armament, she is able to keep the entire Japanese fleet in tension.
          Something like that, I guess. smile
          1. Stirbjorn
            Stirbjorn 20 January 2016 11: 35 New
            0
            Quote: BoA KAA
            Submarine pr 636.3 is 2 times larger, which corresponds to the Ocean scale.
            And then why was it built at the Black Sea Fleet 6 Varshavyanka, once the Ocean scale? None of the specialists even stuttered about VNEU in Varshavyanki
  4. prabiz
    prabiz 19 January 2016 16: 05 New
    0
    Of course, you need to go forward, no matter how good frets!
    1. Stirbjorn
      Stirbjorn 19 January 2016 16: 11 New
      0
      Would be good, would be put into series, like the same Warsaw
  5. midashko
    midashko 19 January 2016 16: 07 New
    +2
    Air-independent power plant on a diesel-electric submarine. That's cool. I would like to know the principle of its work, if possible.

    But in general it is already a boat of a new class. Well done, our developers.
    1. Stirbjorn
      Stirbjorn 19 January 2016 16: 12 New
      +1
      Well done when the new submarine goes on combat duty. While this is just a project
    2. GRAY
      GRAY 19 January 2016 16: 25 New
      +1
      Quote: midashko
      I would like to know the principle of its work, if possible.

      On hydrogen fuel cells, most likely. In them, the reaction of the combination of hydrogen and oxygen with the formation of water and the release of heat.
      Electricity is produced by combining hydrogen and oxygen, which are supplied from the air to the proton exchange membrane in a stack of fuel cells.
      (Whatever it means laughing )
      1. donavi49
        donavi49 19 January 2016 17: 49 New
        +3
        Not two options.

        Reactor with hydrogen.
        Stirling - but stirling will require a revolution in engine building at least in a separate complex (traditional knocks, troits, the main thing works, take the engine will not take off) and support the cosmic culture of production. Stirling has fantastic requirements for precision manufacturing, and these are machines that are quite difficult to get now, and for that class of machine tools it’s the turn of 5 + years. These are unique requirements for build quality, individual debugging of each engine, numerous tests, on-site commissioning, proper monitoring and maintenance.

        However, in general - Stirling is cheaper in operation and safer, the reactor is more demanding, difficult to operate.

        The Germans have a reactor.
        China, Norway, Japan have Stirling.
        1. ver_
          ver_ 20 January 2016 17: 42 New
          0
          ... stirling is an external combustion engine ... in the element it is a blowtorch heating surface .., the only advantage is that there are no valves (gas distribution system) ..., low revs and higher efficiency ..
  6. The comment was deleted.
    1. Yak-3P
      Yak-3P 19 January 2016 16: 22 New
      0
      no-no-no, if the car is Mig-ohm or Yak-ohm then yes .. but it’s not .. wink
  7. Dezinto
    Dezinto 19 January 2016 16: 08 New
    +8
    By the way, the Americans back in the 1960s created their anaerobic engine, but did not use it, since at about the same time they completely abandoned diesel submarines and only made nuclear ones. Nevertheless, today the technology of non-volatile engines is used in several countries of the world that patrol in inland seas. In limited water areas, boats of this type can cope with the same tasks as nuclear submarines, but at a lower cost. It is necessary to develop such technology in Russia: without a modern power plant, submarines become uncompetitive at sea and in the arms market; recently, foreign buyers demand, put forward conditions - to put an anaerobic engine on non-nuclear submarines. ”

    The main trend in the development of submarines will always be a further increase in stealth. Small submarines equipped with air-independent power plants, according to experts, are considered the standard of invisibility, and not without reason. For example, during two exercises in the Atlantic in 2003, the Swedish Halland boat with anaerobic engines, which was used as a training target, outplayed the Spanish submarine with a conventional diesel-electric installation in a duel situation, and then the French nuclear submarine. Later, Halland in the Mediterranean managed to get away from the American nuclear submarine Houston (type Los Angeles). It should be noted that the low-noise and high-performance Halland costs 4,5 times cheaper than its nuclear rivals.
    1. mav1971
      mav1971 19 January 2016 17: 08 New
      0
      Quote: DEZINTO
      It should be noted that the low-noise and high-performance Halland costs 4,5 times cheaper than its atomic rivals.


      Well, do not forget that submarines such as Gotland are clearly defensive. And the rest with VNEU.
      In the coastal zone they have no equal.
      They do not have strategic significance, due to low autonomy (no more than 30 days).
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. 11 black
        11 black 19 January 2016 19: 10 New
        +1
        Quote: mav1971
        Well, do not forget that submarines such as Gotland are clearly defensive. And the rest with VNEU.
        In the coastal zone they have no equal.
        They do not have strategic significance, due to low autonomy (no more than 30 days).

        Well, 30 days under water, it's up to America and back - so who knows ... hi
        1. mav1971
          mav1971 19 January 2016 20: 27 New
          0
          Quote: 11 black
          Quote: mav1971
          Well, do not forget that submarines such as Gotland are clearly defensive. And the rest with VNEU.
          In the coastal zone they have no equal.
          They do not have strategic significance, due to low autonomy (no more than 30 days).

          Well, 30 days under water, it's up to America and back - so who knows ... hi


          At VNEU - no more than a week. Fuel will say "FSO, it's over"
          The rest is under the RDP.
          There is no question of any real threat in the attack.
          Only protection and only coastal.

          Infrastructure in wartime conditions is destroyed instantly. The needs for liquid oxygen and liquid hydrogen are considerable plants.
          The chances of surviving a minuscule.
          Storage, long - minuscule.
          So, a great toy in the absence of conflict!
          1. Antanas
            Antanas 20 January 2016 02: 36 New
            0
            German-made Israeli anaerobic Dolphins have an autonomy of 30 days and a power reserve of up to 8000 miles.
          2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Boa kaa
        Boa kaa 19 January 2016 20: 32 New
        +4
        Quote: mav1971
        They do not have strategic significance, due to low autonomy (no more than 30 days).

        Not autonomy, but wearable weapons determines the "strategic" carrier. yes
        1. mav1971
          mav1971 20 January 2016 20: 28 New
          0
          Quote: BoA KAA
          Quote: mav1971
          They do not have strategic significance, due to low autonomy (no more than 30 days).

          Not autonomy, but wearable weapons determines the "strategic" carrier. yes


          Yes, I understand the identity with which intercontinental nuclear weapons = strategic.
          It always seemed to me that strategic is not equal to atomic at 100%.
          There are also strategic tasks.


          As an example of a strategic purpose.
          If the 30 submarines can block all the naval communications of the adversary in the form of a whole continent, having traveled 7-8 thousand miles and staying for such a long period, then this is a strategic task.
          The submarine is within reach.
          DEPL with VNEU - no.
  8. aleks 62 next
    aleks 62 next 19 January 2016 16: 17 New
    +1
    ..... I’m wondering .... Judging by the size of the boat and measuring them with the size of people (pictured), how everything fits there ???? .... The impression is like sprats in a bank .... And because the crew is relatively small .... request
    1. WUA 518
      WUA 518 19 January 2016 16: 25 New
      +6
      Quote: aleks 62 next
      how everything fits there
    2. Marconi41
      Marconi41 19 January 2016 16: 26 New
      +3
      I don’t know how in Lada, but in Varshavyanka there used to be quiet horror. In any case, I thought so. Shponok for l / s only in two shifts, each does not have one. Fortunately, they didn’t run far and not for long.
      1. aleks 62 next
        aleks 62 next 19 January 2016 16: 30 New
        +1
        .... Shkonok for l / s only in two shifts, each does not have its own. ...

        .... I believe that we have not gone far from this .... Unfortunately .... Sitting there for 45 days is far from a pleasure ....
      2. Rader
        Rader 19 January 2016 17: 16 New
        +2
        Quote: Marconi41
        I don’t know how in Lada, but in Varshavyanka there used to be quiet horror. In any case, I thought so. Shponok for l / s only in two shifts, each does not have one. Fortunately, they didn’t run far and not for long.

        Well, the Yankees on Elk (if memory serves) have one berth for two, and after all an atomic, not a DEP ... Well, you have to face the fact that non-nuclear submarines will be inferior in comfort to atomic for a long time and will not them saunas and pools like the Typhoons crying
      3. FREGATENKAPITAN
        FREGATENKAPITAN 19 January 2016 21: 37 New
        +2
        I will surprise you now ....... on Elks and other miracles of American thought ..... personnel sleep in turns in three shifts in bunks in three rows along the central aisle ....... shuttered shut and forgotten. ..like this !
    3. Rader
      Rader 19 January 2016 16: 36 New
      +8
      Quote: aleks 62 next
      ..... I’m wondering .... Judging by the size of the boat and measuring them with the size of people (pictured), how everything fits there ???? .... The impression is like sprats in a bank .... And because the crew is relatively small .... request

      laughing Think closely? Show this photo to WWII submariners who went into battle on this laughing
  9. Yak-3P
    Yak-3P 19 January 2016 16: 20 New
    -4
    30 days of autonomy .. roughly .. and there is no window to float up - snorkel - start a diesel engine - charge the accumulators .. depths of immersion up to 400 m .. for a day at 20 knots will go far .. what kind of garden to fence ???
  10. cosmos-PS
    cosmos-PS 19 January 2016 16: 29 New
    +4
    The Lada project was originally supposed to be with an anaerobic plant. But with the installation, they were busy for a long time and only now something happened. But it seems that the alteration is getting serious and it's easier to start a new project. And it’s not surprising if something has become outdated during this time and needs improvement. It is good that they decided to finish building the last two boats, otherwise they would remodel them under the new project for another five years, not counting the testing and acceptance.
  11. VNP1958PVN
    VNP1958PVN 19 January 2016 16: 39 New
    -4
    Lada-viburnum, red-haired, so somewhere I already saw it ...
    1. grandson of Perun
      grandson of Perun 19 January 2016 16: 55 New
      +3
      Quote: cosmos-PS
      Lada-viburnum, red-haired, so somewhere I already saw it ...

      Unless in the crazy fantasies of the "comedians", because when painting Kalin, red colors were not used.
  12. engineer74
    engineer74 19 January 2016 16: 54 New
    0
    Interestingly, Vladimir Putin will ride in such a "Kalina" in the Far East? wink On yellow ??? fellow
  13. Region-25.rus
    Region-25.rus 19 January 2016 16: 59 New
    +7
    Quote: Rader
    Quote: aleks 62 next
    ..... I’m wondering .... Judging by the size of the boat and measuring them with the size of people (pictured), how everything fits there ???? .... The impression is like sprats in a bank .... And because the crew is relatively small .... request

    laughing Think closely? Show this photo to WWII submariners who went into battle on this laughing


    In WWII Kriegsmarine across the Atlantic shastali .... I advise you to read Herbert A. Werner's book "Steel Coffins". Everything is described in detail, and life, and war, and much more!
    1. Rader
      Rader 19 January 2016 17: 52 New
      +1
      In WWII Kriegsmarine across the Atlantic shastali .... I advise you to read Herbert A. Werner's book "Steel Coffins". Everything is described in detail, and life, and war, and much more!

      Thanks, read! hi Already read the memoirs and memoirs of some submariners to Krismarine (though mostly in snatches) and was already convinced that fighting on "this" was "unpleasant" (sleeping in an embrace with torpedoes, dog cold, latrine does not work ...).
      Compared to U-bots Pike and S-cams, the same Varshavyanka is like a 4-star hotel after the hostel wassat
    2. Stirbjorn
      Stirbjorn 19 January 2016 20: 47 New
      +1
      Quote: Region-25.rus
      I advise you to read the book by Herbert A. Werner "Steel Coffins". Everything is described in detail, and life, and war, and much more!

      The book is good. The author is one of the few submariners who went through almost the entire war. And besides, the commander of the submarine that survived
  14. NEXUS
    NEXUS 19 January 2016 17: 08 New
    +1
    The question then arises is: When will the first submarine of the Kalina project be laid?
  15. chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 19 January 2016 17: 12 New
    +2
    In the west, a stirling engine is used. Since the 80s, now the main players are building the third generation of boats with VNEU. Hydrogen and oxygen are stored in the tanks on board the submarines; they ensure the operation of the engine by combustion. The engine turns the generator, the generator gives current, the current is used to move and charge the batteries. Oxygen and hydrogen are charged into tanks from the shore, where there is an installation for their production.
    Ours are developing a fuel cell engine "By Catalytic Reforming of Diesel Fuel". Those. hydrogen is obtained from kerosene on board the submarine, oxygen is stored in tanks, then everything is like that of foreigners.
    In general, the difference is only in the method of producing hydrogen, foreigners are preparing it on the shore, ours are on board the submarine. Because of this difference, all the boron cheese. At one time, it was thought that it’s easier, you do not need to build hydrogen production plants near military bases. It turned out that the problem of reforming was not so easy to solve, as a result, we still do not have a modern non-nuclear submarine with VNEU and the prospects are still somewhat vague.
    In general, as a result of the ineradicable desire to come up with our own bike that has no world analogues, we lag behind generations of non-nuclear submarines. The Swedes are now designing and building the fourth generation of submarines with VNEU, the Germans - the third, the French - the third, the Japanese - like the second, South Korea - the first on the basis of the German second, India - the first, on the basis of the French second. Even the Dutch are building with the Spaniards and Brazilians.
    Submarines without VNEU are now interested in countries of the level of Vietnam-Algeria. India has announced a competition - 6 submarines for 8 billion. We are participating in it purely theoretically, because we can only offer the theoretical Amur-1650, which VNEU is not yet available for. The only hope is that they will conduct it as usual - about five or six years, by then it’s possible we will give birth to our creation, or we will have to install the Indian stirling engine.
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 19 January 2016 21: 02 New
      +5
      Quote: chunga-changa
      Those. hydrogen is obtained from kerosene on board the submarine, oxygen is stored in tanks, then everything is like that of foreigners.
      There is no kerosene on the boats, only diesel fuel. Our ECG provides electricity, water and heat. Electricity - to move, or to AB. The question is about a single engine, so as not to carry a diesel engine. But this is possible with a 100% guarantee of reliability that no one will give. Nuclear carriers and those have DG ...
      Quote: chunga-changa
      We lag behind non-nuclear submarines for generations.
      We do not have NPL yet.
      But in 2019 (God forbid that everything was according to plan!) We will become the most advanced country in the NPL race. This was already understood by deutschers and quietly picking our and Amer’s theme with reforming and direct electrochemical reaction with the release of electricity without mechanically displaced elements of electric power. This technology gives an efficiency of up to 75%.
  16. cte-power
    cte-power 19 January 2016 17: 13 New
    0
    Lada Junk
    viburnum too
    DEP WEST it’s time to launch under water!
  17. kim.
    kim. 230752 19 January 2016 17: 16 New
    +9
    I hope the submarines of the Kalina and Lada series still do not repeat the fate of the Soviet-Russian cars of the same name?! [/ Quote]

    I visited Lada Kalina in Paris, Prague, Krakow, Copenhagen, Oslo, Trondheim, Stockholm, Tallinn, Tbilisi, Batumi, Istanbul, Erzurum and Kars. So there is no need to find fault, the domestic car does not fail anywhere !!! Travel reports with a lot of good and interesting photos here: http://travel.drom.ru/38322/

    In the photo: after a trip to Turkey in October 2015, at the Oryol tower in Smolensk.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 19 January 2016 17: 26 New
      +1
      Turkish swordsman! smile
    2. cap
      cap 19 January 2016 21: 49 New
      0
      Quote: kim.230752
      I visited Lada Kalina in Paris, Prague, Krakow, Copenhagen, Oslo, Trondheim, Stockholm, Tallinn, Tbilisi, Batumi, Istanbul, Erzurum and Kars. So there is no need to find fault, the domestic car does not fail anywhere !!! Travel reports with a lot of good and interesting photos here: http://travel.drom.ru/38322/


      Congratulations on your next rank! laughing good
  18. VohaAhov
    VohaAhov 19 January 2016 18: 11 New
    +1
    And from our diesel-electric submarines of project 636.3 can you fire modern torpedoes of the Physic-1 type?
    1. Boa kaa
      Boa kaa 19 January 2016 21: 28 New
      +2
      Quote: VohaAhov
      And from our diesel-electric submarines of project 636.3 can you fire modern torpedoes of the Physic-1 type?

      The top two TAs can fire remote-controlled torpedoes. The open press speaks only about TEST-71, but I see no obstacles to the modernization of the BIUS and the TU system in order to use the UGST, especially since it is exhibited for a foreign customer.
  19. evge-malyshev
    evge-malyshev 19 January 2016 20: 15 New
    0
    The main thing is that they did not completely freeze, but switched to a new qualitative level. This is encouraging in the current economic situation in the country.
  20. The comment was deleted.
  21. podgornovea
    podgornovea 19 January 2016 20: 33 New
    0
    Quote: dauria
    so talking about our “leap” is not particularly appropriate.


    So you are aware of our principle of VNU? Or, still not? Well, and if it is, for example, a mini-reactor for charging the battery? Of course, I am also a frenzied pessimist, but not to the same extent smile (no offense)

    This is true, note:
    Recently, an American consortium of federal laboratories for technology transfer (FLC) presented the Notable Technology Development Award from Hyperion Power Generation from Santa Fe. An outstanding achievement is Hyperion Power Module, an almost domestic nuclear power reactor.

    Hyperion is an extremely compact plant powered by low enriched uranium. It is capable of delivering electrical power of 25-27 megawatts





    So you know that it will be a mini-reactor for charging the battery? Of course, I, too, am a rabid OPTIMIST, but not to the same extent smile (no offense)
  22. 15 apr
    15 apr 19 January 2016 20: 44 New
    0
    somehow not logical, however. When I come, for example, to a car dealership and I wish I fret viburnum. And the manager, at the same time, Kondraty will seize: because, as he will be in prostration, what the client wants is either fret, or viburnum. Which eyeliner? But not a word about vodka !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  23. Radikal
    Radikal 19 January 2016 21: 31 New
    +1
    [quote] [/ q
    “The fleet command decided to finish building two boats of Project 677 Lada and stop the construction at that. All three boats of this project will be included in the combat structure of the Baltic Fleet. Funding will be directed to the Kalina project, ”an unnamed Navy representative told the agency. Uote] If you translate this message into ordinary language (philistine), it looks something like this: Due to the crisis, all ministries (including the Russian Ministry of Defense) ) a team was given to reduce the implementation of certain programs, projects, therefore, the construction of a diesel-electric submarine of the Lada project is being discontinued, financing of the Kalina project, more precisely R&D and R&D under this project, requires much less money. Moreover, there have been no official reports about the immediate prospects for the laying and construction of boats of this project.
    1. Severok
      Severok 19 January 2016 22: 16 New
      +1
      Or rather not say. You give a salary to deputies of all stripes to modernize the fleet, otherwise the bastards are stuck ....
  24. for_White_Only
    for_White_Only 19 January 2016 21: 45 New
    -1
    Well, the name ... If it is as miserable as an under-car, with a similar name - horror.
  25. The comment was deleted.
  26. Severok
    Severok 19 January 2016 22: 13 New
    0
    Seven feet under the keel! If only, as before, our boats were the best!
  27. Mercenary
    Mercenary 19 January 2016 23: 38 New
    0
    “Varshavyanka” is a black hole, “Lada” is even quieter ... what will Kalina do
    Well done Fleet Builders !!!!
  28. iouris
    iouris 20 January 2016 00: 01 New
    +1
    Probably, the general designer is still forced to drive a domestic Lada-Kalina car. The next submarine will be Vesta.
  29. repus
    repus 20 January 2016 03: 11 New
    +1
    [quote = for_White_Only] [quote = kim.230752] I hope that the submarines of the Kalina and Lada series will still not repeat the fate of the Soviet-Russian cars of the same name?! [/ quote]

    I visited Lada Kalina in Paris, Prague, Krakow, Copenhagen, Oslo, Trondheim, Stockholm, Tallinn, Tbilisi, Batumi, Istanbul, Erzurum and Kars. So there is no need to find fault, the domestic car does not fail anywhere !!! Travel reports with a lot of good and interesting photos here: http://travel.drom.ru/38322/

    In the photo: after a trip to Turkey in October 2015, at the Oryol tower in Smolensk. [/ Quote]
    Ahah)) well, well) a domestic car never fails anywhere) I haven’t heard such nonsense for a long time) I just bought enough money, but as you admit I bought it homogeneously) pride doesn’t allow it) and funds) the pension is not enough for a normal car. . [/ quote]

    I’ll report a minus. An example, “Priora”, I had before my eyes a mileage of 160 thousand km, during operation the car stood up once, a fuse for the power supply of ignition coils and other electrics on the engine was knocked out. The reason was a speed sensor malfunction (short short circuit), well, and "set up" once the ignition coil came out of a standing position. The most interesting thing is that the official car was used in the structure of the FSB, i.e. drove her in the tail and mane without sparing. Not a special vehicle, but simply a traveling bibik, which is now being distributed to the Ministry of Internal Affairs and other departments.
    Therefore, not everything is so bad with our car industry ...
    I’m doing auto diagnostics myself, I have very large statistics on breakdowns of the Russian, Japanese and other automobile industries.
  30. for_White_Only
    for_White_Only 20 January 2016 12: 04 New
    -2
    [quote = repus] [quote = for_White_Only] [quote = kim.230752] I hope that the submarines of the Kalina and Lada series will still not repeat the fate of the same Soviet-Russian cars?! [/ quote]

    I visited Lada Kalina in Paris, Prague, Krakow, Copenhagen, Oslo, Trondheim, Stockholm, Tallinn, Tbilisi, Batumi, Istanbul, Erzurum and Kars. So there is no need to find fault, the domestic car does not fail anywhere !!! Travel reports with a lot of good and interesting photos here: http://travel.drom.ru/38322/

    In the photo: after a trip to Turkey in October 2015, at the Oryol tower in Smolensk. [/ Quote]
    Ahah)) well, well) a domestic car never fails anywhere) I haven’t heard such nonsense for a long time) I just bought enough money, but as you admit I bought it homogeneously) pride doesn’t allow it) and funds) the pension is not enough for a normal car. . [/ quote]

    I’ll report a minus. An example, “Priora”, I had before my eyes a mileage of 160 thousand km, during operation the car stood up once, a fuse for the power supply of ignition coils and other electrics on the engine was knocked out. The reason was a speed sensor malfunction (short short circuit), well, and "set up" once the ignition coil came out of a standing position. The most interesting thing is that the official car was used in the structure of the FSB, i.e. drove her in the tail and mane without sparing. Not a special vehicle, but simply a traveling bibik, which is now being distributed to the Ministry of Internal Affairs and other departments.
    Therefore, not everything is so bad with our car industry ...
    I’m doing auto diagnostics myself, I have very large statistics on breakdowns of the Russian, Japanese and other automobile industries. [/ Quote]
    Do not report back then, after how many years of operation began to rot? I have in 2 winters ..
    1. grandson of Perun
      grandson of Perun 20 January 2016 13: 09 New
      +1
      You are not the first here and unfortunately not the only fighter of the information-trade war against our mechanical engineering.
      In order not to expose your myths and your persecution of our car industry each time, a year ago I wrote in detail about all this on the forum. Here's the link:

      http://forum.topwar.ru/topic/610-%D0%B8%D0%BD%D1%84%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BC%D0%B0%D1%8

      6%D0%B8%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1%8F-%D0%B2%D0%BE%D0%B9%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D0%BF%D1%8

      0%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B2-%D1%80%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%B8-%D0%BD%D0%B0-%D0%

      BF%D1%80%D0%B8%D0%BC%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%B5-%D1%82%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%BB%D0%B8-%D0%

      BD%D0%B0%D1%88%D0%B5%D0%B3%D0%BE-%D0%B0%D0%B2%D1%82%D0%BE%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B

      C% D0% B0
    2. The comment was deleted.
  31. Hydrograph
    Hydrograph 21 January 2016 14: 33 New
    +1
    A couple of days ago, with drumming and shouting cheers, they wrote and commented on which Lada is a great boat, now you give Kalina. To ask from designers for national money.
  32. Andrew
    Andrew 4 August 2016 21: 43 New
    0
    It is a pity of course that the production of this submarine will end in just 3 units! The maximum delivery time is 2019, because as it was written, everything will go to the production of a new generation diesel-electric submarine (5) of the Kalina project, it will be laid down in 2018, and will be included in the GPV 2018-2025 (I don’t remember exactly from 2018). And so it would be good to modernize all the DEPLs of Project 636 “Varshavyanka” under “Lada”, because of Lada, the systematization is better for this because the crew is there (21-35 people). And her invisibility, expressed in a childish language, is slightly better than that of Varshavyanka. And it carries not 4 anti-ship missiles / cruise missiles Onyx / Caliber, but already 10 pieces already! Despite the fact that her displacement is less than that of Varshavyanka (1765 vs 2350), well, there is probably closer than in Varshavyanka! It would be even better if the most combat-ready, that is, the young ones and not needing to repair the diesel-electric submarines of the Halibut Project, were modernized to the level of Lada. Well, I’ve been dreaming straight away!)) This Kalina, unlike Lada Kalina, has no analogues in the world (at the moment) lol