Military Review

Well, on Mars or where far away?

207
From the category of good News. Voronezh Association KBHA (Design Bureau of Chemical Automation) conducted successful fire tests of an ion electric rocket engine, developed in conjunction with the Moscow aviation Institute.


Well, on Mars or where far away?


Tests of this fundamentally new engine were successful. All parameters are as stated. Next come the so-called life tests.

The engine, which is completely called the “high-frequency ion electric rocket engine,” was tested on a special vacuum bench simulating the conditions of outer space.

The fact is that this unit is not designed to work in the atmosphere. This is not a booster engine, but a sustainer. And in its design it is very different from the rocket engines we are used to.

The engine is powered by a jet of ionized gas accelerated in an electromagnetic field. This power plant has a small draft in comparison with liquid rocket engines, but its advantage is a long service life. And this is a serious application for flights beyond the Earth’s orbit.

Other uses of electric propulsion are planned. They can be used to correct and stabilize the working orbit of satellites, as well as to transfer from low to high orbits.

Since the engine is more economical in terms of fuel consumption, some groups of satellites (everyone understood what is being said) can change orbits more than once for quite a long time. We have in the national economy such satellites, to which such an option would be more than useful.

There is, however, a small minus. This is significantly more power consumption. Magnetic camera requires its own. But, as assured in KBKHA, this aspect was properly resolved at the design stage.

So, not one pleasant (for us, of course) surprise awaits our competitors in space exploration.

I sincerely congratulate the teams of KBKhA and MAI, which in such a short time (3) embodied the idea of ​​this engine in the metal. And I hope that the rest of the tests will be equally successful.

Naturally, this installation will be shown (if shown) not very soon. It's clear. But, nevertheless, perhaps the stars will become a little closer to us. And it is doubly pleasant that this is our development and our execution.
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  1. Utlan
    Utlan 19 January 2016 06: 34 New
    24
    It's time to colonize the rest of the planet and Russia should be the first!
    1. geek2101
      geek2101 19 January 2016 07: 31 New
      89
      Well, about the "colonize", it is you "grabbed."
      We do not have enough population to digest the available territories.
      And for research purposes, developing the space industry is, of course, necessary.
      1. silver_roman
        silver_roman 19 January 2016 11: 48 New
        23
        Quote: geek2101
        Well, about the "colonize", it is you "grabbed."

        what suddenly? I believe that on this planet we have seen enough and "enough of us."
        Couple pour out of here. We take Russia, we push it into orbit, there are marching engines, we attach a couple of hundred thousand of these to Russia and fly away, while discharging a little nuclear arsenal at the most “democratic” in the whole universe!
        ps sorry for heresy! sick imagination! wassat
        1. Bulrumeb
          Bulrumeb 19 January 2016 13: 46 New
          32
          but for me it’s better to add this engine to the states and others like them and send them away without navigation devices so that they couldn’t return. And we have enough land laughing
          1. Fedor and Co.
            Fedor and Co. 19 January 2016 18: 32 New
            +4
            Let the states fly away with their perverse democracy away into space!
            1. tol100v
              tol100v 19 January 2016 20: 53 New
              +9
              Quote: Fedor and co
              Let the states fly away with their perverse democracy away into space!

              Better to hell! Space cannot be littered!
              1. Telakh
                Telakh 19 January 2016 22: 38 New
                +4
                Give Gazprom to Titan! And build a pipeline. Interplanetary. There is enough hydrocarbons to trade until the Indians of the United States return.
          2. Gorynovich
            Gorynovich 19 January 2016 23: 35 New
            +2
            Quote: Bulrumeb
            it’s better to add this engine to the states and others like them and send them away without navigation devices so that they could not return.

            -Mykola, say moskaly, flew by space.
            -Shaw - wow !?
          3. DAYMAN
            DAYMAN 20 January 2016 06: 43 New
            +1
            It’s not humane ... the aliens are to blame for something? winked
          4. alkur
            alkur 20 January 2016 23: 27 New
            0
            And who will keep the public debt to them? They cannot cope without colonies.
        2. Pre-cat
          Pre-cat 19 January 2016 14: 07 New
          12
          My friend, you’re a sadist! It means that Rassay will fly away - and who on earth will be to blame for everything? To whom will all blame be blamed? Democrats and liberals will remain without their beloved enemy !!! Yes, alone with the wild ISIS and China! That's the fun begins! laughing
      2. Berg berg
        Berg berg 19 January 2016 12: 10 New
        12
        You tell the Americans this. How they mastered Russian Alaska! This, as it were, a great power cannot improve it, but all the same! Half of Russia with an equivalent climate like in Alaska Russia does not see the colonization of northern territories and cold space. America by current strength California and Florida and McDonald's!
        1. Bulrumeb
          Bulrumeb 19 January 2016 13: 44 New
          +7
          this "great" power never intended to improve Alaska, but stupidly pumps out resources from it
        2. iliitchitch
          iliitchitch 20 January 2016 19: 41 New
          +1
          Quote: Berg Berg
          America by current strength California and Florida and McDonald's!

          Let Fort Ross and the surrounding territories in California return the ones they stole; and McDonald’s is generally Canadian.
      3. kit-kat
        kit-kat 19 January 2016 12: 27 New
        +1
        We do not have enough population to digest the available territories.

        Do not "digest" anything. Humanity is already too deployed on its home planet. It is time to moderate appetites. But research and colonization of other planets is a good thing.
        1. Starley from the south
          Starley from the south 19 January 2016 23: 57 New
          -2
          Quote: kit-kat
          colonization of other planets is a good thing.

          Colonization of other planets is, firstly, a hopeless business, and secondly, unnecessary. For some reason, everyone thinks that mankind will save from overpopulation by flying to other planets, such as the farther into the forest, the better brains work and scientists will figure out how to make interplanetary flights cheaply and reliably. Oh, people, understand, we live in a developing world not according to the laws of evolution, but according to the laws of disasters! And now, in the near future, another global catastrophe looms. And after it, those who survive, and we in Russia will survive, will not be up to space.
          1. kit-kat
            kit-kat 21 January 2016 09: 16 New
            -2
            Quote: Starley from the South
            Quote: kit-kat
            colonization of other planets is a good thing.

            Colonization of other planets is, firstly, a hopeless business, and secondly, unnecessary. For some reason, everyone thinks that mankind will save from overpopulation by flying to other planets, such as the farther into the forest, the better brains work and scientists will figure out how to make interplanetary flights cheaply and reliably. Oh, people, understand, we live in a developing world not according to the laws of evolution, but according to the laws of disasters! And now, in the near future, another global catastrophe looms. And after it, those who survive, and we in Russia will survive, will not be up to space.


            Yes, I’d hurry already. There are too many people. It is necessary to introduce some kind of birth control. Only around the planet, and not in individual countries. But ambitions to conquer other planets still need to be realized, if only in order to move science and technology further.
          2. Corsair
            Corsair 21 January 2016 16: 25 New
            0
            Quote: Starley from the South
            Colonization of other planets is, firstly, a hopeless business, and secondly, unnecessary. For some reason, everyone thinks that mankind will save from overpopulation by flying to other planets, such as the farther into the forest, the better brains work and scientists will figure out how to make interplanetary flights cheaply and reliably.

            belay It may not save in the current realities, but for safety and for the development of science in the field of space exploration: astronomy, agronomy, biology and other related to the possible colonization of other planets - this is a powerful incentive and development that will be quite useful on our planet. Many materials developed earlier for astronautics are now safely used in everyday life.
      4. mihasik
        mihasik 19 January 2016 14: 02 New
        +4
        Quote: geek2101
        Well, about the "colonize", it is you "grabbed."
        We do not have enough population to digest the available territories.

        Well, Ermak, when he was developing a wild territory called Siberia, he didn’t think about “digesting” and a small population fool lol
      5. aksakal
        aksakal 19 January 2016 16: 04 New
        +9
        Quote: geek2101
        Well, about the "colonize", it is you "grabbed."

        Well, why not help the Chinese in this regard? Although ... The Chinese have recently lifted the ban on second and subsequent children, but the Chinese population somehow (according to polls) is not in a hurry to acquire young growth - over the years of the ban they got used to childlessness, so China is also unlikely to want to colonize anything outside the planet - there may not be enough people for your plans to be a global factory of the population ...
        Well, Africans can be helped ... Despite the terrifying poverty, the African population is growing and growing. At the same time, Africans are poor workers; there will be no global factory from Africa. The same is the Arabs. Arabs are workers even worse. Praying five times a day, someone to grab his head, arrange a terrorist attack, but just fight - they are forever, people are used to living interestingly. Here you can send the extra population there.))) I exaggerate, of course.
        But in each share - only a fraction of the joke. First, it’s time for humanity to climb out of its cradle, how much can you hang out in it? It’s time to master something nearby.
        Criminals can be given a choice in the future - either on a felling in Kolyma, or on freedom forever on Mars))). After all, so did all new colonies colonize? That the British are with America, that the Russians are with Siberia.
      6. aba
        aba 19 January 2016 19: 09 New
        0
        Quote: geek2101
        , the population is not enough.

        Can I buy from the Indians with the Chinese ?! laughing
      7. GELEZNII_KAPUT
        GELEZNII_KAPUT 19 January 2016 19: 33 New
        0
        Quote: geek2101
        Well, about the "colonize", it is you "grabbed."
        We do not have enough population to digest the available territories.
        And for research purposes, developing the space industry is, of course, necessary.

        We are not used to it! Paul of the planet +/- !!! wink
      8. Starley from the south
        Starley from the south 19 January 2016 23: 43 New
        +3
        Quote: geek2101
        for research purposes, developing the space industry is, of course, necessary.

        As long as people like now are in the manual for the peaceful use of outer space (for scientific and technological purposes), all the developments of our talented designers will do nothing. Indeed, over the past almost 30 years, our country has not done anything meaningful in the peaceful exploration of space: none of our missions to Mars were successful, they did not launch a satellite with a telescope - an analog of the Hubble telescope ... As amateurs came to the leadership, so they themselves and reproduce. What then is the use of magnificent launch vehicles and engines! Until we cleanse Roscosmos and other structures in this area from threes and thieves, we will not be able to complete anything. After all, engines are not the final product; the final product should be orbital and interplanetary stations. It would not have been necessary for us then, since we ourselves cannot use our own engines, sell them abroad.
    2. Forget
      Forget 19 January 2016 08: 25 New
      +9
      I’m also thinking about why people need deep space, distant planets, searches for aliens, on Earth, they would first put things in order and bring dialogue among themselves ....
      1. sergeybulkin
        sergeybulkin 19 January 2016 08: 49 New
        +5
        why do people need deep space, distant planets, searches for aliens, on Earth, they would first restore order

        We still cannot really master our planet, poverty and devastation are everywhere, and all the same there - to the moon, to Mars. Or is it the proverb "everywhere is good where we are not"?
        1. Forest
          Forest 19 January 2016 10: 02 New
          +9
          In order for progress to move, it needs to be driven either by war or by serious research.
        2. Evrepid
          Evrepid 19 January 2016 10: 27 New
          16
          I think this is because desires do not coincide with needs and opportunities.
          Everyone wants to live in the royal apartments, but they do not want to clean up after them. They want others to do it. Hence the srach in his house.
          "... They should take and clean the toilets! Direct in their own business, and not solve the problems of the German raggers! ..." (c) M. Bulgakov "Heart of a Dog" (Prof. Preobrazhensky)
        3. Senior manager
          Senior manager 19 January 2016 11: 48 New
          +8
          According to your logic, you need to polish stone axes. Advancement into space, in my opinion, is development, knowledge of the world and not colonization at all (as it sounds in a Naughty Saxon way), although purely practical goals are also pursued.
        4. Road runer
          Road runer 19 January 2016 12: 27 New
          23
          There is one old fantastic story. There is such an episode (not literally, but the meaning is this): "Chapter 7 of the Century of the Intergalactic Council for the Development of Planetary Systems Terrax received a holographic report from the first assistant to the Century - Advisor Gloksa. Gloks:" In the galaxy Erf1 there is a star system with an inhabited planet. The humanoids inhabiting it call their planet Earth. We have been watching them for a long time, over the past few seconds they have made significant technical breakthroughs. "Terrax:" Interesting! Tell me more. "Glocks:" Earthlings have learned how to split atoms and get energy from them. Launched a spaceship. "
          Terrax: "Excellent, according to our classification of planetary development, they can be put on the first level of development and explore the possibility of contact with them! I think they need to be added to the list." Glocks: "The most respectable, Terrax. There is still a small detail - they also invented atomic weapons." Terrax: "Does this only confirm my words ?!" Glocks: "But they test it on their planet and use it to war with each other." Terrax after a pause: "No, they are not ready! They will not be ready for a long time. Remove them from the list!"
          1. Jozhkin Cat
            Jozhkin Cat 20 January 2016 00: 22 New
            +1
            There is one old fantastic story.

            Can you tell me the name of the story?
            1. Road runer
              Road runer 20 January 2016 10: 04 New
              +2
              I won’t say the name, I read it while I was still a schoolboy in the late 80s, in “Young Technique” in my opinion. By the way, there was a chic magazine.
        5. Michael.
          Michael. 19 January 2016 15: 50 New
          0
          On the niche, the powerful of this world will not earn money. But in deep space, please. And even if you want to, you won’t be able to count. Space is FAR.
        6. crambol
          crambol 19 January 2016 22: 38 New
          0
          "everywhere is good where we are not" ...


          ... And we are everywhere!

          M. Zhvanetsky.
      2. LEX SU
        LEX SU 19 January 2016 10: 38 New
        +7
        then it will be too late ... it’s nobody’s space now ... and then statements periodically slip through ...
        and then there will be opportunities - and the ship (spaceship) left ...
      3. ksv1973
        ksv1973 19 January 2016 22: 12 New
        -3
        Quote: Forget
        I’m also thinking about why people need deep space, distant planets, searches for aliens, on Earth, they would first put things in order and bring dialogue among themselves ....

        What, nafig, deep space ?! Here, and the next one is not always enough brains! Mankind has already snatched TRILLIONS, but only now it is beginning to understand: only drones need to dig in the orbit of the Earth. What is so extraordinary that an astronaut (astronaut) can now do while in orbit? Well, just maintain the ISS. Or maintain the prestige of their country. With current technologies, any experiments can be performed on Earth, except for those associated with zero gravity. But for more than 50-year history of manned flights, about weightlessness and its impact on biology, everything has long been known.
        So it turns out: you can make out the registration number of a car from outer space, and communicating with its owner is often impossible to understand - is it necessary for this person to continue to live?
    3. sergeybulkin
      sergeybulkin 19 January 2016 08: 44 New
      +9
      works due to a jet of ionized gas accelerated in an electromagnetic field
      Technical characteristics of the ion engine: power consumption of 1–7 kW, ion flow rate of 20–50 km / s, thrust of 20–250 mN, efficiency of 60–80%, continuous operation time of more than three years. The working fluid, as a rule, is an ionized inert gas (argon, xenon, etc.), but sometimes mercury. The advantage of this type of engine is its low fuel consumption and long operating time (the maximum duration of continuous operation of the most modern models of ion engines is more than three years). The disadvantage of an ion engine is the traction that is negligible compared to chemical engines.
      As the main (marching) engine, the ion engine was first used on the Deep Space 1 spacecraft (the first launch of the engine was November 10, 1998). The next devices were the European lunar probe Smart-1, launched on September 28, 2003, and the Japanese Hayabus apparatus, launched to the asteroid Itokawa in May 2003.
      However, the thrust of such engines is so scanty that it is measured even in millinewtons.
      1. m262
        m262 19 January 2016 18: 07 New
        +2
        And I am very happy, the stars have become a little closer !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    4. Sweles
      Sweles 19 January 2016 09: 02 New
      14
      KBHA employee Pavel Dronov with installation at the test bench

      KBHA employee Pavel Dronov with installation at the test bench
      To implement the principle of acceleration of a substance in a magnetic field, it is necessary that this substance possess magnetic properties i.e. fuel, what can it be? gas is ionized and becomes plasma, maybe even solid metal particles or, say, mercury. According to American estimates, to create a draft of 0.1kg = 1nt, 25kw of generator power is needed, and such things can be achieved if an atomic reactor acts as a generator, in addition, coils with superconducting conductors are needed to induce a powerful magnetic field.
      It turns out today the ion engine is
      -the engine itself -can be compact enough
      nuclear reactor, what it will look like is unknown
      tanks with gas or other reagents
      even qualitative estimates say that it turns out not so small in volume and weight
      1. Inok10
        Inok10 19 January 2016 10: 57 New
        +8
        Quote: Sveles
        According to American estimates, to create a draft of 0.1kg = 1nt, 25kw of generator power is needed, and such things can be achieved if a nuclear reactor acts as a generator

        .. here, therefore, the Kaliningrad OKB "Fakel" in the USA has a joint venture, as well as in Europe .. the main developer and manufacturer of SPD (stationary plasma engine) .. serial SPD-100B .. hi
    5. Hammer
      Hammer 19 January 2016 09: 43 New
      +4
      Apparently the combination of a compact nuclear reactor (here we are also ahead of the rest) and an ionic electric jet engine will give us the desired combination. Very good news...

      Comrades, from a special department now look at both !!! Schyon of all stripes and types will come running. Oh, how they’ll run! Particularly narrow-eyed "friends" ...
    6. 222222
      222222 19 January 2016 09: 53 New
      +7
      Well, on Mars or where far away?
      Utlan Today, 06:34 New
      It's time to colonize the rest of the planet and Russia should be the first! ""
      1. Will the Cosmos of the human being let the Earth into its abode?
      Until:
      - while each state individually will seek to “colonize” other planets
      - while the thought itself will be alive about the colonization of others
      - until a single society is formed on Earth itself. where ... everyone has equal rights and opportunities. and other life incentives
      - while there will be continuous wars on Earth and the destruction of the rational by the rational. and the mind will be directed to the invention and creation of the weapon of death
      -....
      2. The answer is obvious ... COSMOS ... wait .. of our growing up .. laughing
      1. Lelek
        Lelek 19 January 2016 10: 25 New
        +6
        Quote: 222222
        .COSMOS..waits .. our growing up.


        A little off topic, however ...:
        (cry.)
    7. donavi49
      donavi49 19 January 2016 10: 56 New
      15
      5 KA are now flying on such engines (6 - Hayabusa completed the program and landed).

      But a new generation of ionizers are preparing a BepiColombo mission for Mercury, with a long-term variable orbit around the planet.

      The large GOCE satellite is now flying around the earth, and DAWN was exploring Ceres.

      In general, this is not a new one for a long time, but a well-developed space engine, which has a number of shortcomings and limitations.
    8. Maksus
      Maksus 19 January 2016 14: 10 New
      +5
      Can we colonize Russia first? And then half the country is more like Indian territory. Even gas, and he has not been everywhere yet.
      1. guzik007
        guzik007 20 January 2016 07: 42 New
        -1
        Can we colonize Russia first? And then half the country is more like Indian territory. Even gas, and he has not been everywhere yet.
        ---------------------------------------------------------
        One sensible comment on the whole page. it looks like a colleague, judging by my mother-in-law with a glass :)
        1. thinking
          thinking 10 October 2016 05: 20 New
          0
          If our distant ancestors were all so smart, then we would still be jumping along the branches laughing
    9. Petrol
      Petrol 19 January 2016 15: 41 New
      +1
      Utlan
      Russia should be the first!
      Russia there was already called Rus!
      The main property of the Slavs is to leave inscriptions in Russian.
      for example, on the moon (month), on megaliths, the word "Lighthouse" occurs on Mars, the word "temple", "howls", "camp", on the Venus the word "clan" ;-)
      infa from the smoking room of CB "South"
      1. aksakal
        aksakal 19 January 2016 16: 10 New
        +2
        Quote: Benzin
        The word “lighthouse” on Mars is “temple”, “howls”, “camp”, on Venus the word “clan” ;-)

        - The very first inscriptions - "Kisa and Osia were here!"
      2. Maksus
        Maksus 20 January 2016 15: 33 New
        0
        Do not smoke there anymore)
        Even the Slavs often write XY and some other letter on the fence, they have such a property.
    10. 11 black
      11 black 19 January 2016 19: 17 New
      +2
      Quote: Utlan
      It's time to colonize the rest of the planet and Russia should be the first!

      Quote: geek2101
      Well, about the "colonize", it is you "grabbed."
      We do not have enough population to digest the available territories.
      And for research purposes, developing the space industry is, of course, necessary.

      But such engines have long been in use, for several decades already - it’s nice of course that they made a new model, but very far this is not the first such engine.
      1. alex86
        alex86 19 January 2016 21: 54 New
        +2
        Quote: 11 black
        already in use
        I support, and excuse me for the long quote:
        In 1964, in the orientation system of the Soviet spacecraft Zond-2, 70 erosive pulsed RDs operating on the fluoroplastic functioned for 6 minutes; the resulting plasma clots had a temperature of ~ 30 K and expired at a speed of up to 000 km / s (the capacitor bank had a capacity of 16 μF, the operating voltage was ~ 100 kV). In the USA, such tests were carried out in 1 on the LES-1968 spacecraft. In 6, a pinch impulse taxiway of the American company “Republic Aviation” (Eng. Republic Aviation) developed a thrust of 1961 mN at the stand at an exhaust velocity of 45–10 km / s.

        On October 1, 1966, the Yantar-1 automatic ionosphere laboratory was launched at a height of 2 km with a three-stage geophysical rocket 400Ya1TA to study the interaction of a jet stream of an electric rocket engine (ERD) operating on argon with an ionospheric plasma. The experimental plasma-ion electric propulsion was first switched on at an altitude of 160 km, and during the next flight 11 cycles of its operation were carried out. A jet velocity of about 40 km / s was achieved. The Yantar laboratory reached a predetermined flight altitude of 400 km, the flight lasted 10 minutes, the electric propulsion engine operated steadily and developed a design thrust of five grams of force. The scientific community learned about the achievement of Soviet science from the TASS report.

        In the second series of experiments, nitrogen was used. The flow rate was brought to 120 km / s. In 1966-1971, four such devices were launched (according to other sources, until 1970 and six devices).

        In the fall of 1970, a direct-flow air-propelled air propulsion engine successfully passed the tests in real flight. In October 1970, at the XXI Congress of the International Astronomical Federation, Soviet scientists - Professor George L. Grodzovsky, candidates of technical sciences Yu. Danilov and N. Kravtsov, candidates of physical and mathematical sciences M. Marov and V. Nikitin, doctor of technical sciences V. Utkin - reported on tests of an airborne propulsion system. The registered jet velocity reached 140 km / s.

        In 1971, in the correction system of the Soviet meteorological satellite "Meteor" worked two stationary plasma engines developed by the Institute of Atomic Energy named after I. V. Kurchatova and OKB Fakel, each of which, with a power supply of ~ 0,4 kW, developed a thrust of 18-23 mN and an outflow speed of more than 8 km / s. The taxiways had a size of 108 × 114 × 190 mm, a weight of 32,5 kg and a stock of RT (compressed xenon) of 2,4 kg. During one of the starts, one of the engines worked continuously for 140 hours.
    11. ksv1973
      ksv1973 19 January 2016 21: 43 New
      0
      Quote: Utlan
      It's time to colonize the rest of the planet and Russia should be the first!

      You, my friend, as I understand it, are already among the first suicide bombers who have gathered on Mars?
      If not, do not tell my galoshes! Even in the Moscow region Hundreds of settlements are not gasified! And you already have "space maps tucked into tablets ..."
      Kindergarten, by golly!
    12. avebersek
      avebersek 19 January 2016 21: 46 New
      -2
      Just like Wang said. Congratulations to Russia!
    13. siberalt
      siberalt 20 January 2016 03: 24 New
      +3
      Of course, to hell. We get a doctor’s coupon farther than to Mars. laughing In Russia, not everyone lives in Moscow.
    14. Angara
      Angara 21 January 2016 15: 39 New
      0
      Quote: Utlan
      Russia should be the first

      Unfortunately already the second. Mattresses have already drank the moon wassat
    15. Uran
      Uran 22 January 2016 02: 55 New
      0
      the prospect is certainly not bad.
    16. ASUR
      ASUR 22 January 2016 14: 33 New
      0
      No matter how we were colonized ...
      And for the engine Well done, keep it up
      Still, the situation in the economy would be more stable.
  2. bad
    bad 19 January 2016 06: 45 New
    +1
    The engine, which is fully called the "high-frequency ion electric rocket engine", was tested on a special vacuum bench that simulates the conditions of outer space.
    .. it’s a pity that I don’t understand this, but it sounds encouraging and solid .. laughing
    1. satelit24
      satelit24 19 January 2016 08: 28 New
      +1
      This is almost an ordinary blinking flashlight - which works on one hydrogen atom for more than a year! The pin-up-owls have already flown such Uranus (the engine - the same is made by one of our emigrant professors)
  3. sa-ag
    sa-ag 19 January 2016 06: 48 New
    +1
    it’s a pity that there are no traction numbers, otherwise we could compare
    1. domokl
      domokl 19 January 2016 06: 59 New
      +1
      bully And the key to the apartment where the money is ... Only the first tests are completed. and then, there, too, are not ignoramuses and mediocrity .. Let them come up with yes
      1. sa-ag
        sa-ag 19 January 2016 07: 04 New
        +3
        Quote: domokl
        And the key to the apartment where the money is

        there is a suspicion that this is SPD-270 with its 1 newton thrust and up to 30 kW of power consumption
        1. domokl
          domokl 19 January 2016 07: 20 New
          +3
          As far as I, the amateur, know the principle there, it’s completely revolutionary ... I didn’t communicate with the creators. I must shock the author of the article ... I know for sure that he’s real in the subject. Although he’s not special in the engines either.
          1. Banshee
            19 January 2016 07: 55 New
            +3
            You can shake, sense? In a nutshell, a representative of the manufacturer and a test engineer said all this in a nutshell. In detail, in order to understand the essence, one must have a doctorate in physics. Plus the relevant tolerance.
            1. sa-ag
              sa-ag 19 January 2016 08: 17 New
              +8
              Quote: Banshee
              In detail - to understand the essence, you must have a doctorate in physics.

              It’s not necessary, the essence is not very tricky, it takes a working fluid, for example xenon, although they try to use argon, they are ionized in the chamber by an electron gun, for example, then there is a grid that is supplied with a high voltage that accelerates gas ions, in fact it resembles such an electronic a lamp, the specific impulse is high, the thrust is small, but as a result of gas it is required much less than for a rocket engine, and it takes longer to accelerate
              1. Alex
                Alex 19 January 2016 10: 40 New
                +6
                Quote: sa-ag
                the point is not very tricky there
                I agree, in principle, everything is quite simple. Any substance can be used as a working fluid, recently alkali metals, for example, cesium, look quite promising: they easily evaporate, have a large atomic weight, the lowest ionization potentials, relative availability and low cost. As an ionization chamber can be not only an electron gun, but also a conventional electric arc.

                As far as I understand (also not a very big specialist), the Achilles heel of these engines is low thrust, even as marching in a vacuum. But progress does not stand still, you look, which they will come up with. Good luck to the designers! It is gratifying that Russian (and it is tempting to say “Soviet”) science, even in such conditions, does not stand still.

                Roman, thanks for the article.
                1. Wheel
                  Wheel 19 January 2016 17: 40 New
                  -2
                  Quote: Alex
                  As far as I understand (also not a very big specialist), the Achilles heel of these engines is low thrust, even as marching in a vacuum.

                  This is yes.
                  However, back in the 80th, a working engine with a capacity of 10 GW was built in the USSR, the whole problem is in the power source.
                  1. opus
                    opus 19 January 2016 18: 00 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Wheel
                    However, back in the 80th, an active engine with a capacity of under 10 GW


                    what nonsense.

                    Prometheus required a compact nuclear reactor suitable for installation on automatic spacecraft. The required reactor power is 250 kilowatts.

                    Remote control about 170 kW.
                    1. Wheel
                      Wheel 19 January 2016 18: 05 New
                      0
                      Quote: opus
                      what nonsense.

                      Prometheus required a compact nuclear reactor suitable for installation on automatic spacecraft. The required reactor power is 250 kilowatts.

                      Remote control about 170 kW.

                      What does Prometheus have to do with it? belay
                      This is the so-called "coaxial".
                      1. opus
                        opus 21 January 2016 17: 54 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Wheel
                        What does Prometheus have to do with it?

                        We are talking about ion exchangers
                        Quote: Alex
                        As far as I understand (also not a very big specialist), the Achilles heel of these engines is low thrust, even as marching in a vacuum
                        the wheels response was
                        Quote: Wheel
                        This is yes.
                        However, back in the 80th, a working engine with a capacity of 10 GW was built in the USSR,


                        Prometheus - NASA's development program nuclear propulsion system for spacecraft.
                        such an installation should consist of ion engine and a compact nuclear reactor supplying electricity for the engine.
                        So, for a spacecraft weighing up to 100 tons, a YUU of 60 kilowatts was required for a flight to Jupiter with an ion engine thrust of about 250 grams.

                        About which
                        Quote: Wheel
                        was built in the USSR acting engine under 10 GW
                        ?
                        Brad.

                        Quote: Wheel
                        This is the so-called "coaxial".

                        We can talk about at least 5m wheel, all the same nonsense.
                        About "koakialka" - well, touch enlighten pliz.
                        The same noodles as
                        Quote: Wheel
                        Grozdovsky’s engines have been successfully tested in space since the 59th year, if Che.

                        ?
                2. Warrior of Russia
                  Warrior of Russia 20 January 2016 20: 02 New
                  0
                  Brothers, this is not the direction and it is unlikely to be really applicable for mid-flight spacecraft engines. In addition, there are already experimental models of the engine that develops traction from the power supply of 500 kG (or about 5000 n). At the same time, engine efficiency is 2 orders of magnitude higher. than ion! good See link http://www.km.ru/science-tech/2015/01/16/nauka-i-tekhnologii/753573-rossiya-uspe
                  shno-ispytala-antigravitatsionnyi-dvi
              2. fennekRUS
                fennekRUS 19 January 2016 20: 58 New
                0
                Quote: sa-ag
                and it takes longer to accelerate

                given the flow rate, it’s not bad to dissolve it well, but in general IMHO a niche of such an engine, orientation adjustment is economical, puffs for a long time, and the traction is very carefully regulated by the voltage on the grid. If no interesting lotions were added to it, then the novelty is certainly bearded. Let's look at the development when it ripens
            2. Inok10
              Inok10 19 January 2016 11: 14 New
              +5
              Quote: Banshee
              In detail - to understand the essence, you must have a doctorate in physics. Plus relevant admission.

              .. not so scary .. hi .. if it’s simple it looks like this:
              You can take two electrodes and apply a constant voltage to them. Let there be a voltage of +4,5 volts on one, and we consider the potential of the second (cathode) to be zero. A positive electrode (anode) is connected to a gas ionizer. Ions emerging from it through a hole in the anode will begin to accelerate in an electric field, rushing toward an electrode with zero potential. If a hole is made in it, ions will fly through it into space at a speed of 30 km / s. And the electrons left in the ionizer go through an electric circuit and a power source to the cathode. This system is called the ion engine: in the zone of its acceleration are only ions.
              In fact, there are no 4,5-volt hydrogen ion engines. There is only one reason for this: in the accelerating gap it is impossible to obtain a high particle density. Ions create a rather large space charge in it, which quickly shields the potential of the zero electrode and “locks” the flow. To ensure a sufficiently large current, it is necessary to create a high field strength by moving the electrodes as much as possible. But the maximum distance between them is limited by fractions of a millimeter: a breakdown will occur in a too narrow gap. Speed ​​cannot be increased either: this leads to an increase in energy costs per unit of thrust. Therefore, in such an engine, heavy particles are used - xenon, mercury or cesium ions, operate at a voltage of the order of a thousand volts and receive a fairly decent current and a relatively large thrust ..
              1. Inok10
                Inok10 19 January 2016 11: 15 New
                +8
                The second way is plasma engines, where in the acceleration zone there are both electrons and ions.
                The most significant drawback of ion engines is the appearance of a space charge in the accelerating gap. It would seem that this can be avoided by placing electrons in it and obtaining a quasineutral plasma. However, in an electric field, lighter electrons will immediately accelerate, and up to speeds of thousands and tens of thousands of kilometers per second. This is hundreds of times more than we need.
                To overcome the mobility of electrons, they need to be “tied” to something. This is easy to do by creating in the gap a magnetic field perpendicular to the electric. In a magnetic field, charged particles rotate in a circular, so-called Larmor orbit. For electrons, its diameter in our conditions is tenths of a millimeter, and for ions it is about a meter. Ions practically do not feel the magnetic field, move only under the influence of an electric field and leave the engine with great speed. Thus, the system turns into an ion accelerator, in which there is no interfering space charge.
                At first glance, a plasma engine is a very simple device. This is a ring electromagnet, in the gap of which a camera (it is also called a channel) made of dielectric material is placed. Anode is located deep in the chamber. Outside, near the cut of the chamber, there is a cathode-converter. The working substance (xenon) enters the channel and is ionized near the anode. Ions are accelerated in an electric field and fly out of the engine, creating jet propulsion. And the electrons, as in the ion engine, fall on the anode, pass through the circuit to the cathode-converter and enter the ion stream, neutralizing both it and the engine. It is absolutely necessary to do this - otherwise the satellite, throwing out positive ions from the engine, would acquire a large negative potential. For more details see: http://www.nkj.ru/archive/articles/9681/ (Science and Life, SPACE ELECTRIC Locomotive) .. Design Bureau "Fakel" has been operating since 1955 ... hi
                1. Inok10
                  Inok10 19 January 2016 11: 38 New
                  +4
                  .. illustration to the above written .. hi
            3. Wheel
              Wheel 19 January 2016 17: 32 New
              -2
              Quote: Banshee
              In detail - to understand the essence, you must have a doctorate in physics. Plus relevant admission.

              In order to understand the essence of enough school knowledge.
              In order to make the current model enough refractory bricks, two carbon electrodes, a powerful electromagnet and non-crooked hands are enough.
              My classmate at the end of the 60s for two days lied.
              1. Wheel
                Wheel 19 January 2016 20: 09 New
                0
                Quote: Wheel
                In order to understand the essence of enough school knowledge.
                In order to make the current model enough refractory bricks, two carbon electrodes, a powerful electromagnet and non-crooked hands are enough.
                My classmate at the end of the 60s for two days lied.

                Hmm, I wonder what miracle minus set?
                The model diagram was published either in the Young Technician, or in the Model Designer. laughing laughing laughing
                USE?
          2. Sweles
            Sweles 19 January 2016 09: 18 New
            +3
            Quote: domokl
            As far as I, the amateur, know the principle there, it’s completely revolutionary ... I didn’t communicate with the creators. I must shock the author of the article ... I know for sure that he’s real in the subject. Although he’s not special in the engines either.


            absolutely not revolutionary the idea itself was born long ago in the early 20th century. Everything rests on engine manufacturing technology ...
          3. opus
            opus 19 January 2016 17: 24 New
            +4
            Quote: domokl
            , the principle is known there is completely revolutionary ...


            This principle is "a hundred years at lunch"
            1906: Robert Goddard examined the use of electrostatic acceleration of charged particles to create reactive thrust. In 1917, he created and patented an engine - the forerunner of modern ion engines
            1954: Ernst Stühlinger showed how to optimize the performance of an ion engine
            1962: Published the first description of the Hall engine - a more powerful type of plasma engine - created on the basis of the work of Soviet, European and American researchers
            1962: Adriano Ducati discovered the principle of operation of the magnetoplasma-dynamic (MPD) engine - the most powerful type of plasma engine
            1964: NASA's SERT 1 spacecraft conducted the first successful test of an ion engine in space
            1972: Soviet satellite "Meteor" made the first space flight using the Hall engine
            1999: NASA's Deep Space 1 inactive traction laboratory demonstrated the first successful use of the ion engine as the main propulsion system to overcome Earth's gravity when launched from Earth orbit




            Scheme of the electrostatic (ion) engine:
            1 - supply of a working fluid; 2 - ionizer; 3 - ion beam; 4 - focusing electrode; 5 - accelerating electrode; 6 - retarding electrode; 7 - neutralizer; 8 - the main source of energy; 9 - auxiliary energy source.

            ions (an ionic rocket engine) emitted in an electric field by metal atoms (cesium or mercury); and then significantly accelerated by a much more powerful field. A separate stream of electrons is emitted behind the engine in order to neutralize positively charged ions (otherwise the engine would acquire a much greater electric charge).
            On fingers:
            RT is first ionized, after which the ions and electrons are separately accelerated in the electrostatic field (using a system of electrodes), and then mixed again to neutralize the space charge and, when flowing out, create a traction

            in 1966–71 at the Yantar spacecraft — ionic taxiways were tested

            Current missions


            NSTAR Ion Engine American AMC Deep Space 1
            SERT
            Deep space 1
            Artemis
            Hayabusa
            Smart 1
            Dawn
            Goce
            Planned missions
            BepiColombo
            ESA plans to use an ion engine in the BepiColombo Mercury mission. It will be based on an engine based on Smart-1, but will become more powerful (the launch was scheduled for 2011-2012, rescheduled for 2017).
            GSAT-4
            Lisa pathfinder
            International Space Station
            1. opus
              opus 19 January 2016 17: 30 New
              0
              Quote: domokl
              It is necessary to shock the author of the article ..

              Quote: Author
              The fact is that this unit is not designed to work in the atmosphere. This is not an accelerating engine, but a marching one.

              This is not true wink
              Gravity, not the atmosphere is an obstacle.
              At an outflow speed of 10–100 km / s (or more) the atmosphere is not a hindrance.
              Thrust (or rather, thrust density) milligrams (mgs)
              the probe motor of the Deep Space 1 probe is equivalent to roughly the weight of a piece of paper




              An ion engine mounted on a SMART 1 consumes 1350 watts of electricity from solar panels, and develops a draft of 0,07 Newton, which roughly corresponds to the weight of a postcard. The working substance is xenon (82 kg fuel reserve). At the same time, it took 16 months to enter the elliptical polar orbit around the moon of the station. The launch of SMART 1 into the calculated orbit was a complex multi-stage process consisting of stages.


            2. Wheel
              Wheel 19 January 2016 18: 10 New
              -2
              Quote: opus
              1964: NASA's SERT 1 spacecraft conducted the first successful test of an ion engine in space

              Grozdovsky’s engines have been successfully tested in space since the 59th year, if so. (True on ballistic missiles)
              1. opus
                opus 19 January 2016 18: 44 New
                0
                Quote: Wheel
                Grozdovsky’s engines have been successfully tested in space since the 59th year, if

                if so, then I (probably to my shame) do not even know who Grozdovsky is, and even more so his engines.
                Are these gas engines for HX?
                Grozdovsky G.L.?

                and BR needs ionic engines (if we are talking about them?) it needs to fly 30 minutes (in zero gravity 15-20 minutes). no BR ion engine 9 however, like any electric propulsion) -not needed

                and on which specifically
                Quote: Wheel
                (true on ballistic missiles)
                ?
                P-1
                P-2
                P-5M
                P-11M
                P-7
                R-7A
                P-12
                R-12U
                P-14
                R-14U (I won’t continue, since it’s already 1964th and later)
                ?
                1. Wheel
                  Wheel 19 January 2016 19: 52 New
                  -1
                  Quote: opus
                  if so, then I (probably to my shame) do not even know who Grozdovsky is, and even more so his engines.
                  Are these gas engines for HX?
                  Grozdovsky G.L.?

                  Well, everything is not possible to know, and there is nothing to be ashamed of.
                  Whether this is Grozdovsky is not known to me.
                  Quote: opus
                  and on which specifically

                  P-2 and P-5
                  Quote: opus
                  and BR needs ionic engines (if we are talking about them?) it needs to fly 30 minutes (in zero gravity 15-20 minutes). no BR ion engine 9 however, like any electric propulsion) -not needed

                  Naturally, the BR does not need ion engines, however, as a test bench it is quite suitable.
                  1. opus
                    opus 19 January 2016 20: 36 New
                    0
                    Quote: Wheel
                    Well, everything is not possible to know, and there is nothing to be ashamed of.
                    Whether this is Grozdovsky is not known to me.

                    so enlighten, if in the know!

                    Such a confident statement
                    Quote: Wheel
                    Grozdovsky engines successfully tested in space from the 59th year


                    Of course, both P-2 and especially P-5 crossed the Karman line, but briefly so. T.ch. talking about "space" is pointless (but the upper atmosphere was investigated, yes)

                    Quote: Wheel
                    P-2 and P-5

                    I can confidently say that they did not stand either on the P-2 or on the P-5.

                    Even on geophysical rockets R-2A and R-5A (R-5B and R-5V were launched later, they did not have the same thing).
                    1. Goals and objectives there were different
                    2. The shortage of something in the USSR in those days did not throw such crap
                    3. There were no works in the USSR on this subject at that time (country after WW2, devastation)
                    1. Wheel
                      Wheel 19 January 2016 23: 33 New
                      -1
                      Quote: opus
                      so enlighten, if in the know!

                      George Grozdovsky, worked at that time at TsAGI, I know for sure.
                      Quote: opus
                      Of course, both P-2 and especially P-5 crossed the Karman line, but briefly so. T.ch. talking about "space" is pointless (but the upper atmosphere was investigated, yes)

                      Quote: opus
                      I can confidently say that they did not stand either on the P-2 or on the P-5.

                      Well, how can I tell you ...
                      100 sec for R-2 and 150 - 170 sec for R-5 is enough for many purposes.
                      And are you so sure that you know the composition of the equipment at each launch?
                      Quote: opus
                      2. The shortage of something in the USSR in those days did not throw such crap
                      3. There were no works in the USSR on this subject at that time (country after WW2, devastation)
                      Not, of course, a shortage of everything and everything, especially freedom of speech and other democracy. laughing
                      The "coaxial" I mentioned was officially developed since the 60th year, if Che.

                      In conclusion, a small digression.
                      In those days, both people and values ​​were slightly different. It is impossible for the current generation to understand how it is possible to do what they don’t pay for, and then developments in the “initiative” order were in the order of things.
                      A lot of things were done in this way, some even broke through the "right to life", some were mired in bureaucratic wilds, some were broken about the ambition of the "high-seated".
                      And you about the devastation ...
                      There was not that devastation in the heads and hands, which is the most important thing!
                      1. Wheel
                        Wheel 19 January 2016 23: 54 New
                        0
                        Quote: Wheel
                        100 sec for R-2 and 150 - 170 sec for R-5 is enough for many purposes.

                        Oh yes, so that there are no nit-picking, the numbers are indicated at a minimum, in reality - more.
                      2. opus
                        opus 20 January 2016 00: 38 New
                        0
                        Quote: Wheel
                        George Grozdovsky, worked at that time at TsAGI

                        I asked SPECIFICALLY
                        Quote: opus
                        Grozdovsky G.L.?

                        to which the answer was
                        Quote: Wheel
                        Is it Grozdovsky - I don’t know.

                        Long searched on the Internet? good
                        I don’t know if George L. Grozdovsky worked at TsAGI, but Grodzovsky Gersh Leibovich worked there exactly

                        "Low-Thrust Space Flight Mechanics"
                        G.L. Grodzovsky, Yu. N. Ivanov, VV Tokarev / Science; Chap. ed. physical and mathematical literature, 1966
                        Quote: Wheel
                        Well, how can I tell you ...

                        I will disappoint you ...
                        Why did I ask about BR-WHAT?
                        The R-2 and R-5 have inseparable warheads (well, except for the combat R-5 variant with three and five warheads suspended from the hull, on the side0.
                        to carry out tests of electric propulsion in a rocket, with acceleration of 5 g (during acceleration) and up to 3 g (when falling) with chaotic aerodynamic loads, this is nonsense.
                        Let me remind you thrust ERD miles (micro) grams of force.
                        EVEN DO NOT FIX THE RESULT

                        what you wrote about
                        Quote: Wheel
                        Grozdovsky’s engines have been successfully tested in space since the 59th year

                        This is a rocket 1Я2ТА - Soviet three stage geophysical rocket. Designed to launch flying ionosphere laboratory "Amber" for researching a plasma ion engine.



                        From left to right: PR 5YA27 (V-825) of the S-225 system, PR 5TYa (A-350ZH) of the A-35 system, researched 1Я2ТА rocket to launch the Yantar laboratory", SAM 20D system S-75M, SAM 205 complex S-25.
                        or in kind:

                        It wasn’t in 59m, and in 1966 (start) completed in 1970
                      3. opus
                        opus 20 January 2016 00: 42 New
                        0
                        The experimental plasma-ion electric propulsion was first switched on at an altitude of 160 km, and during the next flight 11 cycles of its operation were carried out. A jet velocity of about 40 km / s was achieved. The Yantar laboratory reached a predetermined flight altitude of 400 km, the flight lasted 10 minutes, the electric propulsion engine operated steadily and developed a design thrust of five grams. The scientific community learned about the achievement of Soviet science from the TASS report.

                        In the second series of experiments, nitrogen was used. The flow rate was brought to 120 km / s. In 1966-1971, four such devices were launched (according to other sources up to the year 70 and six devices).


                        In October 1970 years at the XXI Congress of the International Astronomical Federation, Soviet scientists - professor G.L. Grodzovsky, Candidates of Technical Sciences Yu. Danilov and N. Kravtsov, Candidates of Physical and Mathematical Sciences M. Marov and V. Nikitin, Doctor of Technical Sciences V. Utkin - reported on tests of a propulsion system operating in the air. The registered jet velocity reached 140 km / s.

                        And you say in 1959 !!!!
                        Well, how so?

                        IT'S WRITTEN:
                        Quote: opus
                        in 1966–71 at the Yantar spacecraft — ionic taxiways were tested


                        and photo of the Yantar spacecraft attached


                        And you took a whack -17 years from history

                        Quote: Wheel
                        Oh yes, so that there are no nit-picking, the figures are indicated at a minimum, in reality - more

                        what kind of nitpicking is it. mislead the electorate
                        "I hear a ringing, but I don’t know where he is"?
      2. blizart
        blizart 19 January 2016 07: 47 New
        +2
        The marching engine is more important than the ratio of the impulse to the mass of the expended working fluid. All the same, the acceleration should be within g. The path begins with the first step and is joyful that it was made by the Russians.
        1. Wheel
          Wheel 19 January 2016 17: 42 New
          -1
          Quote: blizart
          The path begins with the first step and is joyful that it was made by the Russians.

          Moreover, a very long time.
      3. gjv
        gjv 19 January 2016 09: 27 New
        +4
        Quote: sa-ag
        there is a suspicion that this is SPD-270 with its 1 newton thrust and up to 30 kW of power consumption

        SPD - development of OKB Fakel, Kaliningrad. And his TX are known.
        Stationary plasma engine SPD-290
        Designed for correcting the orbit of heavy spacecraft and solving transport problems (interorbital flights, flights to asteroids). It can be used as a plasma source to create powerful artificial plasma formations. In industry, it can be used as a plasma source in high-power installations of ion-plasma technology. Status of development: an experimental research model has been developed. The engine is prepared for the beginning of OCD. It is protected by patents for inventions of the Russian Federation.

        Main Specifications
        Weight 23 kg
        Rod 0,30–1,30 N
        Electric power 11079 kW
        Specific impulse (8–35) ∙ 10 to the degree of 3 Ns / kg
        Working substance xenon
        Resource (with a thrust of 1,2 N, forecast):
        over the duration of work 9000 h
        by the number of inclusions 6000
        total thrust impulse 40 ∙ 10 to the degree of 6 N / s
        Preparation time for work no more than 300 s
        Diameter of a plasma stream at the exit of 290 mm
        The ion energy in the jet core is 120–550 eV

        The article also describes the development of the KBHA of Voronezh. It is not clear how much the picture in the article corresponds to the tested engine model. However, SPD is a magnetron generator and it looks somewhat different. Like this.

        At the same time, there is no information on "high frequency ion electric rocket engine"It reports on a promising development - the LRD laser rocket engine to provide thrust to an aircraft driven by a laser-initiated plasma flash. And the picture of the LRD model is also very different.

        Also an amateur. request It seems to Newton that nobody shook the apple tree. The apple has ripened and has fallen. SPD engines have long been widely used for taxiing satellites (Meteor, Cosmos, Hals, Express, Beam, Coupon). Wait, m. and fly to Mars, on the thrust of the LRE. bully
        1. Inok10
          Inok10 19 January 2016 16: 35 New
          +3
          .. dug up the Voronezhtsev’s scheme .. basically the essence is the same as that of the Fakel Design Bureau .. but there are some differences .. well, there’s no detailed description .. wink ..if I dig something .. share .. hi
          1. Inok10
            Inok10 19 January 2016 16: 42 New
            +3
            .. OKB "Torch" also does not sleep:
            In addition to the development of SPD engines, the Fakel Design Bureau is also working on the creation of a parametric series of new plasma engines with a hollow magnetic anode based on a fundamentally new design scheme, an analog of which was previously tested in the SPT-1 model. The new parametric series of such engines is given the conventional name PlaS.
            A low-power engine Plas-34 with an average accelerator channel diameter of Ø34 mm was created, which is currently the smallest plasma engine in the parametric line of the Fakel design bureau, which demonstrated the possibility of efficient operation at a discharge power of 100-120 watts.
            Another PlaS-40 engine, the middle diameter of the accelerating channel of which is Ø40 mm, is capable of functioning in the low power range from 120 to 650 watts. Along with these engines, Fakel Design Bureau is also conducting research tests to develop a new high-pulse plasma engine with a hollow magnetic anode PlaS-120 with a power of up to 6 kW. The model has demonstrated effective operation in high traction modes with achievement of 315 mN and high specific impulse with achievement of 3000 s while ensuring traction efficiency of at least 50%. Source: http://www.fakel-russia.com/research/
            .. in the photo Plaza-120 .. hi
        2. opus
          opus 19 January 2016 17: 33 New
          +1
          Quote: gjv
          It reports on a promising development - the LRD laser rocket engine to provide thrust to an aircraft driven by a plasma flash initiated by a laser.


          plasma is partially or fully ionized gas.

          Plasma is created by communicating energy to a gas, for example when irradiated with a laser, micro- or radio-frequency waves, or using strong electric fields. Excessive energy detaches electrons from atoms or molecules, which as a result acquire a positive charge, and the detached electrons are able to move freely in the gas, so that ionized gas becomes a much better current conductor than metallic copper. Since the plasma contains charged particles whose motion is largely determined by electric and magnetic fields, exposure to it by electric or electromagnetic fields can accelerate its components and throw them out as a working substance to create traction. Necessary fields can be created using electrodes and magnets, using external antennas or wire coils, or by passing current through a plasma.

          both ion and plasma are varieties of an electric rocket engine

          ===============================

          Variant of a plasma engine - called Hall
          Variant of a plasma engine-magnetoplasmodynamic (MTD) engine


          Ionic, Hall, and magnetoplasmodynamic - These are three types of plasma engines.



          1. Wheel
            Wheel 19 January 2016 20: 04 New
            0
            Quote: opus
            both ion and plasma are varieties of an electric rocket engine

            In fact, these are two names of the same.
            It is problematic, you know, to get non-ionized plasma. repeat
            At the Nobel pulls.
            1. opus
              opus 19 January 2016 23: 19 New
              0
              Quote: Wheel
              In fact, these are two names of the same.

              I actually broadcast about it
              Quote: opus
              plasma is a partially or fully ionized gas.

              Quote: Wheel
              It’s problematic, you know, to get non-ionized plasma

              completely ionized however the same

              Fully ionized plasma, consisting of bare atomic nuclei and free electrons, from the point of view of an experimental physicist is a theoretical abstraction, since in a real experiment we always deal with a plasma in which, in addition to positive ions, neutral atoms and molecules are also present in some proportion. In a plasma formed in technical gas-discharge equipment, as well as in the earth’s ionosphere, charged particles make up a negligible fraction (!!!!) compared to neutral atoms.

              the total electric charge of the plasma is approximately equal to zero.
              Quote: Wheel
              At the Nobel pulls.

              hardly, if you do not take into account the "theoretical abstraction" - the nobel in my pocket.

              -------------------------------------------------- ------

              if we count as plasma a gas with one free electron for 10 ^ 8 atoms - then the flame of the candle is plasma.

              in the flame of an ordinary candle, the degree of ionization is less than one millionth of an electron per atom.

              the current through the candle flame when a pair of 0.2 mm copper wires connected to an 18 V battery is inserted into it is about 0.5 microamps.
              Since the wires melt, it can be assumed that the flame has a temperature of at least 1100 C.

              This resistance (36 MΩ) corresponds to the specific plasma resistance p ~ 4x10 ^ 4 Ohm m - which is 12 orders of magnitude higher than the resistance of good conductors (Al).

              The possible values ​​of the plasma density (according to the BSE definition) n (the number of electrons or ions in cm3) are in a very wide range: from n ~ 10 ^ -6 in intergalactic space and n ~ 10 ^ 1 in the solar wind to n ~ 10 ^ 22 for solids and even greater values ​​in the central regions of stars.
  • D-Master
    D-Master 19 January 2016 06: 52 New
    +7
    This is just great news. As a boy, I read about ion engines and realized that I was unlikely to see this in my life. And in Russia there is such a scientific breakthrough. With such engines, you can really master the entire Solar System. It sounds of course corny but the words RUSSIA ARE FORWARD! acquire a completely different meaning !!!
    1. blizart
      blizart 19 January 2016 07: 30 New
      +3
      I understand your delight! I also thought I could not live. Although years 10-15 infa flashed back that the students (!) Of Moscow Higher Technical School and Moscow Institute of Physics and Technology are working, but remember what time it was. The description began with an image from Star Wars - they say: "We saw luminous circles at the stern of fighter jets, this is nothing but this very engine and we are working on it." By the way, the so-called interstellar gas can also be a working fluid, this is from the Young Technician, ships with a huge bowl of gas collector on the bow with a huge fuel supply. Here is the news from our Voronezh correspondent!
    2. Odysseus
      Odysseus 19 January 2016 08: 17 New
      +3
      Quote: D-Master
      This is just great news. As a boy, I read about ion engines and realized that I was unlikely to see this in my life.

      I share your joy! However, ion engines have long been used. smile
      The question is different — how to use them for flights to “near deep space”? This is a fundamental task.
  • Jarilo
    Jarilo 19 January 2016 06: 57 New
    +8
    That would be for our economy, a marching engine invented, and then some kind of it has been slowing down for many years now.
    1. Kos_kalinki9
      Kos_kalinki9 19 January 2016 07: 06 New
      +7
      Yes, we need to re-accelerate for the economy to invent, and only then think about the march.
  • Tatar 174
    Tatar 174 19 January 2016 07: 11 New
    +6
    In near-Earth orbit, it will be possible to assemble large-sized ships with many such engines for flights to other planets ... A nuclear reactor can serve as a source of energy for them. Fiction is becoming a reality! This engine may in some ways become a marching engine for the country's economy.
    1. sa-ag
      sa-ag 19 January 2016 07: 16 New
      +1
      Quote: Tartar 174
      A nuclear reactor can serve as a source of energy for them.

      In this case, it is better to revive the project RD-0410
      1. Banshee
        19 January 2016 08: 02 New
        +5
        What is better? What is better for?

        RD-0410 - antiquity. And expensive antiquity. This could only be built in the USSR, where they did not spare money for projects. 2 tons of expensive materials and a hefty tank for liquid hydrogen.

        He, by the way, intact. Oddly, not disassembled. But reanimation is doubtful. Transform using modern materials - yes. It would be easier and cheaper. Still, 60 years have passed since the start of work.
        1. sa-ag
          sa-ag 19 January 2016 08: 20 New
          +3
          Quote: Banshee
          RD-0410 - antiquity.

          well this is such a wonderful antiquity 900 sec specific impulse and 2 tons of thrust, a cool tug would have turned out
        2. Odysseus
          Odysseus 19 January 2016 08: 25 New
          +1
          Quote: Banshee
          What is better for?

          For flights around the Solar System.
          Quote: Banshee
          Which is better?

          It’s simpler. It’s also super technology at the present time, but it’s still easier than creating a nuclear power plant, putting it all into orbit, creating high-current electric propulsion engines (or assembling a lot of ion engines), and then starting this whole farm somewhere.
      2. Odysseus
        Odysseus 19 January 2016 08: 11 New
        +1
        Quote: sa-ag
        In this case, it is better to revive the project RD-0410

        It also seems to me that NRE is more effective than ERE with YaEDU. The use scheme is very complicated. But judging by the active work on nuclear power plants, they went exactly this way. There are probably some reasons.
    2. Alex
      Alex 19 January 2016 10: 46 New
      +3
      Quote: Tartar 174
      In near-Earth orbit, it will be possible to assemble large-sized ships with many such engines for flights to other planets ...

      One (although probably not one) already has such a project: the Prometheus rocket
      1. Odysseus
        Odysseus 19 January 2016 12: 33 New
        0
        Quote: Alex
        One (although probably not one) already has such a project: the Prometheus rocket

        The project is beautiful, but only in comparison with it, a ship with a NRE seems simple and banal, and the nonexistent heavy Angara is a child’s toy.
        1. Alex
          Alex 19 January 2016 15: 03 New
          +2
          I am not a very great specialist in the design of rocket engines, but as I see it, two directions are visible here. The first is an increase in traction and, accordingly, everything that is connected with it. Here, the prospects are most likely for the NRE. Or their combination with chemical ones. The second - "you go quieter - you will continue": with low traction, slowly, but "cheap, reliable and practical" (s).

          IMHO, the first way is good for manned flights, the second - for trucks and automatic satellites. Something like this.
          1. Odysseus
            Odysseus 19 January 2016 19: 21 New
            0
            Quote: Alex
            IMHO, the first way is good for manned flights, the second - for trucks and automatic satellites. Something like this

            The prospects of Ionic (as well as other Electric rocket engines) for satellites are undeniable. That is precisely the question of manned flights to other planets.
            And here it is to use "cheaply, reliably and practically" (c). the ion engine is still not working at all.
      2. opus
        opus 19 January 2016 17: 53 New
        0
        Quote: Alex
        rocket "Prometheus"
        \
        In 2005, the program was closed

        http://exploration.nasa.gov/programs/prometheus/

        money until 2007 was received only for the payment of a penalty in connection with the termination of contracts

        'Prometheus Project Final Report', NASA / JPL, October 1, 2005, p. 191

        1. Tatar 174
          Tatar 174 19 January 2016 18: 12 New
          0
          Quote: opus
          In 2005, the program was closed

          It was not necessary to give Prometheus a name. The ship was not called that; mythology was poorly known.
          1. opus
            opus 19 January 2016 19: 22 New
            0
            Quote: Tartar 174
            It was not necessary to give Prometheus a name

            Prometheus means "thinking first", "anticipating"
            You probably confused with his bro Epimetheus - “thinking after”, "Strong hind mind" lol
        2. Odysseus
          Odysseus 19 January 2016 19: 16 New
          +1
          Quote: opus
          In 2005, the program was closed

          http://exploration.nasa.gov/programs/prometheus/

          About Opus appeared in the topic, then all Khan smile
          And to you, dear Opus, what is the next stage in the development of manned space exploration?
          Ships on a nuclear engine, on an electric propulsion engine with energy from nuclear power plants or will we not exchange for trifles and immediately turn to some photonic solar sails?
          1. opus
            opus 19 January 2016 19: 35 New
            0
            Quote: Odyssey
            About Opus appeared in the topic, then all Khan

            say too ...


            Quote: Odyssey
            And to you, dear Opus, what is the next stage in the development of manned space exploration?

            thanks for the "respected", if not banter of course
            about "manned, I think it will die.
            MEANING? and expensive, expensive, troublesome
            Curiosity showed that during a 48000000km flight, pilots will receive a dose exceeding 1 year on the ISS.
            And yet, back!
            (poi feed, let them breathe)
            and if about unmanned
            Quote: Odyssey
            on the NRE

            somehow it’s hard to imagine that someone will allow to launch over their (and common territory) under 60 tons of fuel rods on U235. And if it falls?
            Quote: Odyssey
            on electric propulsion from nuclear power plants

            Solar-powered or laser-driven electric propulsion
            Quote: Odyssey
            or will we not exchange for trifles and immediately move on to some photonic solar sails?


            June 7, 2015 at 22:51 from the second attempt managed to reveal solar sail of the experimental satellite Lightsail.


            The satellite is a 3-Unit CubeSat i.e. its size is 10 x 10 x 30 cm. Its square sail has an area of ​​32 square meters.
            The photo below was taken on June 9 at 21:26 Moscow time. In the photo, the sail is fully revealed.

            ===============

            Strugatsky, the novel "Country of Crimson Clouds" (1960)

            Spaceship on a photon engine "Hius".


            (According to the calculations of the Nizhny Novgorod Strugatologist Sergei Lifanov, the flight of "Khius" to Venus was supposed to take place from June to September 1991)
            1. Vadim237
              Vadim237 19 January 2016 21: 10 New
              0
              Better NRE - gas phase http://dicelords.narod.ru/rockets/rocket3c2.html
  • Ivanly
    Ivanly 19 January 2016 07: 13 New
    0
    How, I ,,, love this WEALTH !!!
  • Flinky
    Flinky 19 January 2016 07: 23 New
    +1
    Fiction has become a reality. Predictions of Ivan Antonovich Efremov begin to come true.
  • Alexdark
    Alexdark 19 January 2016 07: 23 New
    +1
    Imagine in the near future. "Nyash mash, our Mars!"
  • jetfors_84
    jetfors_84 19 January 2016 07: 25 New
    -18
    Key phrase of the article at the end
    "Naturally, they will show this installation (if they show it) not very soon." I think the article is about nothing and is sucked from the finger. We can also say that on a certain collective farm they built a flying saucer and are conducting tests. The prospects are awesome. But soon you will not see her. And so rejoice. laughing
    1. domokl
      domokl 19 January 2016 07: 30 New
      +6
      repeat The lack of information you say only about your unwillingness to look for this information ... Key phrase of the article "Tests of this fundamentally new engine were successful. All parameters were consistent with the declared ones. Next, the so-called resource tests are coming."
      1. Ruslan67
        Ruslan67 19 January 2016 07: 34 New
        +2
        Quote: domokl
        ... Key phrase of the article "

        Quote: domokl
        The lack of information from you speaks only about your unwillingness to seek this information ...

        I have long understood why Roma in Skype yells like a victim laughing Are you still trying to explain to someone that articles should be read fool
    2. Banshee
      19 January 2016 07: 53 New
      +4
      Quote: jetfors_84
      I think the article is about nothing and sucked from the finger. We can also say that in some collective farm built a flying saucer and conduct tests.


      It is great that you have not forgotten how to think. It is encouraging.

      It is a pity, however, that you are still in a captivity of illusions, in which you must immediately and the whole world demonstrate the engine, and throw out all its performance characteristics.

      Thank God, at our top not everyone thinks in categories of your collective farm. And they do not want everyone in the neighboring collective farm to know everything about our new products in detail.
      1. Ruslan67
        Ruslan67 19 January 2016 07: 57 New
        +1
        Quote: Banshee
        not everyone thinks in terms of your collective farm.

        And Romanov says that I write a little request For four years, tired of texting with a neighboring collective farm sadAlready even Kaptsov does not amuse in the morning request
        1. Alex
          Alex 19 January 2016 10: 50 New
          +3
          Quote: Ruslan67
          Already even Kaptsov does not amuse in the morning

          Wow, this is serious ... wink
      2. Oprychnik
        Oprychnik 19 January 2016 10: 49 New
        +1
        We have such devices,
        But we won’t tell you about them!
        )))
    3. Odysseus
      Odysseus 19 January 2016 08: 14 New
      0
      Quote: jetfors_84
      I think the article is about nothing and is sucked from the finger.

      I think, in this case, your skepticism is groundless. Ionic engines have been developed for a long time. Of course, you need to judge by the result, but in general there is nothing unrealistic about this.
  • S_Baykala
    S_Baykala 19 January 2016 07: 32 New
    +2
    I would like more technical details. Of course, Google to help, as they say, but it is advisable to disclose the topic wider.
  • Doctorleg
    Doctorleg 19 January 2016 08: 29 New
    +1
    Maybe I don’t understand something, but ion engines have been used for quite some time. The first marching ion engine, as Wikipedia suggests, was launched in 1998 on an American spacecraft. So what is the feature of the Russian engine? There is not a word about this in the article.
  • podgornovea
    podgornovea 19 January 2016 08: 31 New
    +3
    Without engine specifications, the article is about nothing, the "beard"

    "In 1964, in the orientation system of the Soviet Zond-2 spacecraft for 70 minutes, 6 erosion pulsed RDs operating on fluoroplastic functioned; the resulting plasma clots had a temperature of ~ 30 000 K and expired at speeds up to 16 km / s (the capacitor bank had 100 microfarad capacitance, operating voltage was ~ 1 kV.) In the USA, such tests were carried out in 1968 on the LES-6 spacecraft. In 1961, the pin-type pulsed taxiway of the American company Republic Republic aviation developed thrust on the stand "45 mN at an exhaust velocity of 10 — 70 km / s."

    From 1971 of the 1997 year, 26 of Soviet and Russian satellites were launched with various modifications of the Fakel design bureau 2 to 8.
    1. Engineer
      Engineer 19 January 2016 08: 47 New
      0
      it's not about ion engines
      1. The comment was deleted.
  • Engineer
    Engineer 19 January 2016 08: 50 New
    0
    I am glad that our seriously took up this promising area of ​​engine building. It is sad that we have to catch up not only with the USA, but also with Europe, which already 8 years ago used such an engine for a satellite.
    1. Odysseus
      Odysseus 19 January 2016 09: 12 New
      +1
      Quote: Engineer
      It is sad that we have to catch up not only with the USA, but also with Europe, which already 8 years ago used such an engine for a satellite.

      Actually, we have a priority on electric rocket engines. Specifically, there was really little to do with ionic electrostatic, since plasma electrostatic was successfully used (and used) for satellites.
  • Red_Hamer
    Red_Hamer 19 January 2016 08: 53 New
    0
    We look forward to continuing with the details. The Chinese are out there too, they are not sitting in place, they are planning to do bases on the moon, and soon, very soon.
  • sa-ag
    sa-ag 19 January 2016 09: 18 New
    0
    Probably we are talking about such an engine http://www.mai.ru/science/trudy/published.php?ID=35371
    For tests were conducted engine created in conjunction with the MAI and KBHA
  • Nitarius
    Nitarius 19 January 2016 09: 20 New
    +2
    Another flyer:

    “A strange man really flies over the Ruzsky reservoir. He rides from the town of Ruza to the village of Glazovo. He doesn’t go directly to the reservoir at the base. There is a truck camera and a pump, a motorcycle battery in the backpack. He pumps air into the camera, attaches some coils, nets , battery. He does everything above the hole. At first they thought it was such a poaching tackle. Yes, they only saw him. He rises five meters and flies towards the dam.

    "March 2, 2007
    I lost four days off dangling in search of a miracle of the unit, burned a ton on a wheelbarrow of fuel. What can you tell about this man. Name is Alexander. Age 55 years. Lives in the city of Ruza. Electrical Engineer. On weekends, in the morning you can meet at bus stop number 25. (Ruza - Ostashevo) Glazovsky bend and travel 3,5 km to the bases of Glazovo, asking about his homemade products. A person lives poorly, plainly everything is exactly what you don’t know. He knows nothing about Grebennikov and AVION. Carries a backpack with him. In the backpack there are stainless steel mesh coils, a gluttonous generator, a control panel and a battery, a small car pump, a camera from the ZIL 130 wheel. Two boards are attached to the backpack, more precisely two stripes of laminate flooring. Comes on ice, pumps the camera with air, puts coils and nets on the marks. He puts two boards on the camera, sits on top, turns on the generator and rises slowly by 3-4 meters. Then it switches on another mode and flies at the same height towards the Luzhka Recreation Center over the frozen channel of the Ruzsky reservoir, making a 12 km path in the air, and there is not enough battery charge for more. Not a motor and no blades. Flies only in winter, starts only with ice. You can meet him on the P108 highway near the rest house on the same side or at the stop of Belyanaya Gora railway station and bring 11-12 km to Ruza. In short, I did not like boring all this and sad, I need to pick mushrooms in the summer, and in winter I do not need it for nothing. The main thing I did not understand what for him to fly in the winter unnecessarily. "
    1. Nikolay K
      Nikolay K 19 January 2016 11: 08 New
      0
      This is not an ion engine, but an anti-gravity
      1. Bayonet
        Bayonet 19 January 2016 12: 26 New
        +3
        Quote: Nikolai K
        This is not an ion engine, but an anti-gravity

        This is not an anti-gravitator, but a brain mutator for gullible suckers! laughing
        1. dzeredzavkomimu
          dzeredzavkomimu 19 January 2016 19: 01 New
          0
          so the coordinates are said where you can see and time, you can check)))
    2. Nikolay K
      Nikolay K 19 January 2016 11: 08 New
      0
      This is not an ion engine, but an anti-gravity
    3. Bayonet
      Bayonet 19 January 2016 12: 24 New
      +2
      Quote: Nitarius

      "A strange man really flies over the Ruzsky reservoir.

      Well this is to Prokopenko, on REN TV smile
  • Nitarius
    Nitarius 19 January 2016 09: 22 New
    -1
    Here is what I managed to read and rewrite. “In the fall of this year (I think 2002), I was traveling by train to Moscow and I heard two young people talking behind my back. Grebennikov’s surname repeatedly sounded in their conversation. It attracted my attention, and after half a minute, I brazenly intervened in their heated conversation It felt like I was crawling out of the darkness.

    People have been flying for a long time, but I walk on foot. Two guys were discussing how to improve their unit. They go to test the unit in Ruza there, according to the guys, the terrain is the most suitable minimum of field deviations (?). I told them about my observations. For them it was not at all surprising.

    One guy’s name is Aleksey, his friend Andrei is 25 years old. As a child, Aleksey was sent to the village of his grandfather to the Don every summer. There, at the age of five, he first saw such an aggregate. Guys on such units flew fishing. They were made by one local Kulibin from what he could find on the collective farm.

    Kulibin was a veteran of the Second World War and remembers this design from the war. Grandfather Alexei, then still told a little, that he was given the task of destroying the German warehouse in late 1944. The company completed the mission, but grandfather was still able to sketch the design of the enemy unit. The unit flew at a low altitude above the water, this is of course a big drawback.

    And so two friends decided to recreate the enemy's construction. Andrei fell into the hands of a book by Grebennikov, but Alex nevertheless decided to do everything according to the sketches of his grandfather.

    After much persuasion, the guys gave me to look out of the corner of my eye on the structure, which freely fit between the two seats in the train. In a case, it is very similar to a drum kit only flat.

    When I looked at the unit, it seemed very familiar to me.

    A platform with a foot mount, on one cape a toggle switch on the other, a makeshift pedal from which a cable goes inside the platform.

    On the bottom side is a rim with ignition coils and magneto. Inside the rim there are two discs, one external movable, the other internal not movable.

    Four magnets and eight coils are fixed on the movable disk, four horizontally, four vertically.

    The internal disk, if at all, can be called a disk of two types of mesh. Grids are also placed in two planes. One mesh is very thin of stainless steel, the other is copper with fairly large cells about a millimeter.

    To the outer part of the disk, the grids are fixed rigidly through an insulator, and inside the disk are fixed to a movable insulator. The insulator stands on a spring and can be moved 20-25 degrees along the axis using a cable attached to the pedal. Candle wires go from ignition coils to the insulator and each is connected to its grid.

    A tumbler breaks a magneto chain. A movable disk, this is essentially a bicycle wheel whose axis is fixed in the center of the platform.

    Launch this thing like that. Holding the unit vertically with one hand, spin the wheel with the other. Turn in a horizontal plane, turn on the toggle switch for how many seconds, turn it off and start to press the pedal. The start is made over the water. "And all this with regards to.

    Not a drawing, not a sketch. Only this record, then the recipe for pickling mushrooms.
    1. Pavel_J
      Pavel_J 19 January 2016 10: 11 New
      +2
      What is Grebennikov’s book called? "My world"? This is it, beckoning the world of the old self-taught naturalist without a higher education.
  • Elena2013
    Elena2013 19 January 2016 10: 04 New
    0
    Quote: Red_Hamer
    We look forward to continuing with the details. The Chinese are out there too, they are not sitting in place, they are planning to do bases on the moon, and soon, very soon.

    And you, by the way, on whose hardware do you play? wassat
  • Cobra77
    Cobra77 19 January 2016 10: 06 New
    +2
    As far as I remember, ion engines have long been used (used) as shunting, including ours. What is the fundamental difference between these and existing ones? Can someone tell me?
  • dummy
    dummy 19 January 2016 10: 07 New
    +1
    Quote: Utlan
    It's time to colonize the rest of the planet and Russia should be the first!

    You probably meant that Russia Mars will be colonized by the Chinese? And China is easier, and Mars will be equipped.
  • Million
    Million 19 January 2016 10: 12 New
    +1
    How little good news. Thank you for the article!
  • Eastern wind
    Eastern wind 19 January 2016 10: 19 New
    +2
    Give Mars!
  • Elena2013
    Elena2013 19 January 2016 10: 57 New
    +3
    Quote: East Wind
    Give Mars!

    Naive Patsaki laughing

  • vandarus
    vandarus 19 January 2016 11: 36 New
    +1
    "Well, to Mars or to hell?" To live ....
    1. Bayonet
      Bayonet 19 January 2016 12: 39 New
      0
      Quote: vandarus
      "Well, to Mars or to hell?"

      Like in a joke -
      - "is it sent to Mars?"
      - "no, they send n. ...!"
      But seriously, where there are many slogans, there is little to do! hi
  • Elena2013
    Elena2013 19 January 2016 11: 37 New
    +3
    What do you know about the solar system?
  • Pvi1206
    Pvi1206 19 January 2016 12: 02 New
    0
    Despite the activities of "effective managers", in Russia there are still specialists working for the good of the country.
  • podgornovea
    podgornovea 19 January 2016 12: 22 New
    +1
    Quote: Engineer
    it's not about ion engines


    This article is about an electric propulsion system (ERD).

    "Starting in the middle of the 60's in the USSR and the USA, field tests of the electric propulsion system began, and in the beginning of the 70's the electric propulsion system began to be used as a standard remote control."

    "News" may be good, depending on what engine characteristics.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Denis Skiff
    Denis Skiff 19 January 2016 12: 30 New
    +2
    Kbha! We fly far. And fast. KBHA
    Let's wave here?
  • venedofruss
    venedofruss 19 January 2016 12: 39 New
    -1
    it wouldn’t be bad if Russia built a military modular orbiting space station with a large number of missiles and placed it somewhere in the North Atlantic Ocean
  • Denis Skiff
    Denis Skiff 19 January 2016 12: 40 New
    +1
    Only calmly without panic. Soon we will all move. There is dviglo. It remains to attach it to the transport. KBHA!

    1. viktor_ui
      viktor_ui 19 January 2016 14: 42 New
      0
      Oh god, we ALL die when we collide ... help wassat
  • fa2998
    fa2998 19 January 2016 12: 40 New
    +1
    Quote: Hammer
    Apparently the combination of a compact nuclear reactor (here we are also ahead of the rest) and an ionic electric jet engine will give us the desired combination.

    The guys are a REACTIVE ENGINE! The thrust is created by the outflow of gases from the nozzle. It works in VACUUM! So for the gases you need a working fluid. Mean to bring the FUEL + NUCLEAR REACTOR, AND THE ENGINE itself. So it consumes little fuel due to its low thrust. you can’t be fooled, or physicists have discovered a new law! In chemical RDs, gases are produced by burning fuel — here the same “FUEL” is ionized and accelerated with the help of electricity. hi
  • Alexey-74
    Alexey-74 19 January 2016 12: 42 New
    0
    New engines are excellent, the main thing is not to slow down and apply them in practice. When our satellites and ships begin to plow outer space with new engines, everyone else will no longer have any chance to laugh ....
  • Bersaglieri
    Bersaglieri 19 January 2016 12: 52 New
    0
    There was a project at NPO Energia of an interplanetary ship with ERD data. In two versions: with NERD and with EDS.
  • Lumumba
    Lumumba 19 January 2016 13: 36 New
    0
    Unfortunately, at present, Rogozin is right when he said that "interplanetary flights and the development of other planets require exclusively international cooperation. This should not be a project of one country." An economy based on current principles (exchange speculation, winged democracy, cut green paper, impoverished countries, a cult of money, arms trade, military conflicts) will not pull such projects. Such projects are not needed by such an economy.
  • cedar
    cedar 19 January 2016 13: 42 New
    +3
    Quote: AlexDARK
    Imagine in the near future. "Nyash mash, our Mars!"

    In the USSR, a program for a manned flight to Mars was developed, and the implementation of the Martian expedition was planned for 2015.
    But since the Martians are very close to the Democrats .., and with democracy it is tight .., the command to “set aside” passed.
  • chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 19 January 2016 15: 12 New
    0
    The remnants of luxury. The engine was created as part of the space tug program. The programs that were effective in Roskosmos were abandoned, now there is an engine, but to whom and why it is needed, it is not clear, there is no tugboat. And all the programs in outer space, where it could come in handy, are also curtailed. All that remained was the delivery of the astronauts to the ISS, and the satellites would not be needed to launch orbits, either there or there. In general, we will not hear about the real use of this engine for a very long time.
  • drugg
    drugg 19 January 2016 15: 21 New
    0
    Quote: vladimir_krm
    Well, the idea is that a gas or other substance first turns into a plasma, and then this plasma is accelerated by a magnetic field. There are a lot of design options, and the engines themselves have really been working since the 60s. SPD in Kaliningrad have been doing for a long time.

    Advantage: if for chemical engines the speed of the jet stream is obviously less than 5 km / s, then here 50 km / s is not the limit. This means that the fuel (or rather, the working fluid) should be an order of magnitude less. In addition, theoretically, both waste products and a meteorite caught along the way can serve as a working fluid :), in short everything that can be turned into plasma.

    Well, electricity is needed, yes.

    In general, it is clear how the “Kin Dza Dza” threw a match into the engine and flew on.
  • Denis Skiff
    Denis Skiff 19 January 2016 15: 44 New
    0
    Stephen Hawking called the timing of the death of mankind
    Well. Have you tested the engine? fell out of here.
  • epsilon571
    epsilon571 19 January 2016 16: 46 New
    +1
    And here is another engine that I recently read about on the Internet - the Shaer engine EmDrive. According to the description, this is a cone-shaped microwave oven, beyond which nothing also seeps, but the draft in which is created towards the wide end due to some imbalance in electromagnetic radiation. It is tempting truth, all that is required for the operation of such an engine is electricity. Such an engine can be used almost everywhere, from spaceships to levitating cars. What time! Five years ago, Chinese scientists became interested in the Shaer engine. And last fall, the Yang Juan group published its first report on their work, talking about a 72-gram traction electromagnetic engine (Roger himself recently published an article in English). The tests were carried out on Earth, but on their own measuring setup, different from Shaerov and more accurate. In the near future - a valid engine model for correcting the orbit of artificial satellites.
    The Chinese will surely be the first to reach the goal, regardless of whether the electromagnetic engine will work in space or remain motionless. Unlike the author of EmDrive, they work at a state university for state money: the communist Celestial Empire learned the lessons of a business school well. They are not afraid to bet on risky projects.
    1. bamsik
      bamsik 19 January 2016 20: 42 New
      0
      part on the left is very similar to an ancient alarm clock with the case removed
  • Former battalion commander
    Former battalion commander 19 January 2016 17: 49 New
    +1
    Eh in the article is not enough specifics ... What craving? What momentum? What is the power consumption? The rate of flow of ions from the nozzle? Yes, and mngo mngo something else ... And so it becomes purely ceremonial, looking like a report at the Komsomol congress ... I took up writing an article on a technical topic so give at least a bit of technical information ...
  • kunstkammer
    kunstkammer 19 January 2016 18: 00 New
    +1
    the stars will get a little closer to us

    and Kirkorov with Chubais and Nabiulina too? Well, at least a little?
    I bastard in anticipation!
    1. viach
      viach 21 January 2016 16: 06 New
      0
      Okay, scammers, it seems that the main thing for you is that the buffoons become closer! Who what. Bastard!
  • Setrac
    Setrac 19 January 2016 20: 53 New
    0
    I don’t share your enthusiasm, but to take off as before on a chemical rocket? If we want to explore space - first of all, we need cheap access to orbit.
  • Zhnec
    Zhnec 19 January 2016 21: 02 New
    +1
    Quote: silver_roman
    defusing a little nuclear arsenal of the most "democratic" in the whole universe!
    ps sorry for heresy! sick imagination! wassat

    I like this... :)
  • Teplotehnik
    Teplotehnik 19 January 2016 21: 31 New
    +1
    I am glad that ours do not stomp on the spot! That we will continue to be in space in the first roles!
    1. Former battalion commander
      Former battalion commander 19 January 2016 22: 00 New
      +2
      Oh yes, do not believe this little article. The fact that they advertise here is a long-passed stage back in the Soviet years (it is not for nothing that the article does not include a single digit of the parameters), but is safely banned by the "effective" ones. Now one of the former has dug up this and is trying to reclaim the idea in order to dislodge the financing. I think nothing will work out, now they rule "effective" and that’s it.
      1. Erg
        Erg 19 January 2016 22: 46 New
        0
        Boring. Tedious and embarrassing. That's right, battalion commander. This is all junk. We are waiting for the neocons to "give the go-ahead", and the already existing, truly breakthrough technologies will be extracted "from under the glass". hi
  • Geser
    Geser 19 January 2016 23: 22 New
    0
    As one of the cosmonautics founders Tsiolkovsky said: “The Earth is the cradle of mankind. But humanity will not forever remain in the cradle.” Earth resources will not be able to feed the growing population soon, colonization and development of other planets is the only way out for the continued existence of man. To make the development of other planets possible, scientists need to solve several problems. 1. Create reusable ships that can take off into orbit on their own, without the help of rockets; 2. Provide ships with reliable protection against cosmic radiation and radiation; 3. To solve the problem of artificial gravity on the ship, weightlessness has a very negative effect on the health of astronauts and the work of the ship; 4. Create engines capable of speeds, thanks to which the flight time to the farthest planets and systems will be significantly reduced. The Moon should become the first planet for colonization, since it is the planet closest to the Earth with the necessary resources. Therefore, the moon can be seen as a kind of springboard for the development of other planets. The most important thing is that to solve all these problems is necessary already in this century.
    1. Jozhkin Cat
      Jozhkin Cat 19 January 2016 23: 53 New
      0
      Create reusable ships that can take off into orbit on their own, without the help of rockets.
      This is perhaps the most important thing, if there is a powerful thrust in space, such a boat will fly very fast. And you need to look first of all at earth-like planets so that the settlement can feed itself. Living on the moon is wet dreams
    2. Erg
      Erg 20 January 2016 00: 25 New
      +1
      The moon is a ship. With the team ...
  • ilya_oz
    ilya_oz 20 January 2016 01: 51 New
    +1
    That news is still. No engine data available. But in principle, ion engines have long been used on a satellite to maintain orbit. Ideas are more than a hundred years old: Tsiolkovsky also proposed.
  • Kudrevkn
    Kudrevkn 20 January 2016 09: 04 New
    0
    This is good news for shipbuilders too - this engine is the basis of an air-independent (anaerobic) EU - an electric power generator for electric motors of direct current diesel-electric submarines. Economically and efficiently, the heat will also be utilized and used in boilers - heat exchangers, gas generators, and air regenerators. The main thing. so that the IED is a compact block - cassette with the possibility of relative quick replacement (reboot) in the factory (within 1-2 weeks) in order to increase the life of the electric submarine. Glory to Russia!