Military Review

Why scare us with a tank army?

70
It’s so accepted in our times that any writer can be labeled "paid up." Another, of course, the question: by whom. In general, everyone who expresses his opinion in some media has such a collection. And it's good when everything is clear and understandable. Worse, when it is not entirely clear what the person wanted to convey to the readers.




In our case, in the Free Press, which was not previously considered to be focused on certain places like the State Department and others like him, we came across an article by Sergei Ischenko. "Divisions will rise from the ashes". And firmly thought over what they read.

It cannot be said that Ishchenko "is not our man." It seems to be ours. But some nuances make this doubt. And, remembering that we have already 4 military schools for two and having stepped up those convolutions that, according to the proverb "callus from the cap", we subjected his words to some analysis from a military point of view.

It all started with a statement by Russian Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu. In it, he voiced one of the main tasks of his department in the coming months, the formation of three new divisions in the western direction.

“It is necessary not only to form these divisions, but also, of course, to equip them in places of permanent deployment with the construction and creation of appropriate polygons, equipment storage areas and, of course, personnel residing.”

This is clear and understandable, it did not require any evidence, because it was shown more than once on TV. But then the strange began. In some incomprehensible way, the three divisions turned into tank the army. The links went to the beginning of June last year, when some "high-ranking sources in the Russian General Staff" began to give some media and (!) Bloggers information that it is planned to recreate 1 tank army by December 2015, 1. And it seems to be how to form “from scratch” another combined arms, instead of (or in addition) to the already existing 20th Army.

In fact, bloggers, the "business newspaper" Vzglyad, cast doubt on the accuracy of their information. But what is the demand from the blogger?

Further, according to the text of the article, Ischenko said a lot about where and how divisions will be created, of which the strength and power of the tank army will be composed.

"The General Staff of the Russian Armed Forces announced that by December 1, 2015 plans to reestablish the 1 Guards Tank Army as part of the Western Military District, as well as to re-form and replenish the 20 Guards Combined-Arms. That's what new divisions need for them.

December 1 has long passed, but so far our only tank army in the Armed Forces looks slander. Today, it has only one tank division - 4-I Kantemirovskaya (Naro-Fominsk, Moscow Region). There is also the 6-I separate tank brigade (Mulino of the Nizhny Novgorod region), the 2-I Taman motorized rifle division (Alabino village, Moscow region) and the 27-I Sevastopol separate motorized brigade (Moscow)

It is clear that these troops are completely inadequate for a strike association with such large-scale tasks. Indeed, until 1991, when the 1-I Guards Tank Army, which had become famous during World War II, was disbanded, it consisted of two tank and motorized rifle divisions, two missile brigades, an anti-aircraft missile, artillery and engineering-sapper brigades, two separate helicopter regiments. And a lot of other parts and units are smaller. "


Stop. And what are the actual tasks in question? Allow ourselves to quote Ishchenko a little more so that everything more or less falls into place.

“But why all these incredible efforts and huge costs? Why a tank army, why three new full-blooded units in the western direction, which the Ministry of Defense will have to deploy in just a year? You can’t consider serious horror stories of some modern Ukrainian political analysts as if“ Putin is preparing to throw to the Dnieper "?

Before the Dnieper, if I really needed it, we would have no doubt, and so we would have gotten it. How this is done - see plots from Syria. But if the goal is Ukraine that has not flown off from coils, then who or what?

To answer this question, we need to look at our western borders of Russia a little wider - from the Black Sea to the Baltic. What happens there is terribly reminiscent of the 1941 year. A month ago, the same Shoigu openly cited the following figures: in the NATO countries bordering the Russian Federation, "this year alone, the contingent increased by eight times for aircraft, and by number of servicemen - by 13 times." “To the borders of the Russian Federation“ additional deployed to 300 tanks and infantry fighting vehicles, deployed Aegis Ashore missile defense systems. In various degrees of readiness are 310 carriers, capable of carrying around US nuclear bombs 200. "

300 tanks and infantry fighting vehicles - this is a complete divisional kit. Throw personnel from overseas on the passenger Boeing, put it behind the levers and go ahead.

From the places where the same nuclear bombs are stored - a few minutes fly to our main industrial and administrative centers.

Losing sleep about this may not be necessary. But the conclusions do - necessarily. To put new divisions. On the last money to form a tank army. Or maybe not one.

Can all this be done without the usual Russian disorder? Of course. But otherwise we, apparently, do not know how. Neither today nor when they retreated to the Volga, but then they took Berlin anyway. "


Now much becomes clear.

At least, we understand that rumors about a tank army in the Western Military District are nonsense. Yes, 300 tanks and BMP are almost a division. Plus, that there was before our "partners" from NATO.

But the tank army is not weapon protection. This is a weapon of attack.

Let's look thoughtfully for what is needed tank army.

1. A full-strength tank army is a real armor class capable of breaking through anything. Question: what should be pierced in case of what? Ukraine? Sorry, but the whole army of Ukraine can be rolled by the forces of two brigades. This is not hats, this is the real thing. The APU in its current state will at best be able to imitate the fighting.

Europe? Yes, a thousand tanks will be able to destroy all the roads from Lviv to Berlin. And arrange parking on Unter den Linden. But forgive me, where is our defensive doctrine then? And what is the direct meaning of such actions?

2. Rembaza full TA allows you to repair virtually everything without a manufacturer. We emphasize, full. This is a big plus if it, the repair base, exists. Moreover, repair in combat conditions is simpler, because a lot of tanks - a lot of spare parts. Accordingly, the manufacturer will only that which is not restored on the spot. And easier to dispose of.

3. The possibility of proper training of crews. In TA there simply must be training shelves / centers that will be prepared by the crews specifically for a specific part, taking into account the specifics of a particular compound or unit.

4. For TA it is easier to solve the problem of transporting tanks. Because for this, parts must be created that will deal with this. transfer of equipment and its provision.

Naturally, there are downsides.

1. The most important. If we start from the fact that TA is an offensive weapon (I repeat that we have little understanding of how TA can defend passively), then the theater on which it can effectively be used is clearly not Ukraine. And the Europeans, who lived for several decades under the fear that the Russian tanks would wash, drawing water from the Channel, created very effective means against our tanks. And it's hard to argue with that. European VET is not only effective, but also numerous.

2. Equipment. TA - a rather big connection. And for normal use, the tank army should be equipped not only with tanks and means of their repair and transportation. And also motorized gunners, artillery, aviation, engineers and much more. And all, note, at the regimental level.

3. Accommodation TA near Moscow, consisting of the 4-th Kantemirovskaya division (Naro-Fominsk, Moscow region), the 6-th separate tank brigade (Mulino of the Nizhny Novgorod region), 2-th Taman MSD (Alabino of the Moscow region) and something else in terms of parts looks logical.

It seems to be an armored coat covering the capital. The question of who and how to cover the "court" divisions and brigades, we leave behind the brackets. But the fact that these parts will be involved in the latter case in the last turn is understandable.

But being under the cover of air defense of the capital is very justified and logical. "Arrive" in these parts far from immediately, and not the fact that it will arrive at all. Moscow air defense is not a joke.

And in the western direction with air defense is not so luxurious. And it turns out that it is necessary either to scatter parts at some distance from each other, so as not to arrive by means of the same carrier planes and others that are capable of this business, mentioned in the Ishchenko 310 article.

It is not a sin to spend a hundred carriers on Naro-Fominsk. The Kantemirov division is definitely worth it. But as a result, we are not sure. And in the West, for sure, too. But in the same Boguchar, Ostrogozhsk, Voronezh - why not? Although about Voronezh - we got excited. There is someone to metalopad from the sky to organize.

Nevertheless, the protection of TA from any air attack is no less complicated than its creation.

In general, the idea of ​​creating a tank army in the western direction seems to be a sort of creeper. And a petty pugalka, for it is not clear who they want to frighten more: the West or the Russian inhabitants. The deployment (and even more, the creation) of a tank army in our time is a very expensive business.

“It’s not necessary to lose sleep about this. But it’s necessary to draw conclusions. To set up new divisions. To form a tank army with the last money. Or maybe not one.”

So why Ishchenko wants to scare someone with outright nonsense, which clearly borders on meanness? This call is strange. Indeed, 300 tanks and BMP - they will reach the Urals, right? Especially if the passenger "Boeing" crews from the States to transfer. We have no one in the western direction at all, some trenches from the times of the Great Patriotic War. And only the urgent creation of a tank army numbering 1 000 tanks will be able to curb the aggressive plans and intimidate the enemy. Nothing that the budget will sentence, right? The main thing - the enemy will be scared to death, and the tanks and BPM will remain in their places!

It is strange to read this from the captain of the 1 rank. Very strange. Let even kapraz spent most of his life on newspapers. That's not the point.

The bottom line is that, no matter how we shove the Internet for a week, we could not find sensible arguments and reliable information about the creation of a tank army. Well, they could not, and that's it.

Especially cool is silent on this topic MO. And correctly silent. For to create the planned three divisions is one thing, and the army is another. And the three divisions - this is not the army. These are three divisions.

It is very good that in our MO there are knowledgeable and intelligent people who understand the situation perfectly well. And they will not go on the creation of such a monster as absolutely useless in peacetime as a tank army. Because if you fight, then there is no place to fight TA, and there is nobody. Moreover, there is nothing to maintain such a structure in peacetime.

If we turn to the narrations of modernity, we can see that over the past 20-30 years (and possibly more), compounds like TA have not been used anywhere else. The last war, where the parties operated on tank armies — correctly, the Great Patriotic War. Not even World War II. There, the sides lacked neither targets nor tanks. The only ones who operated with tank armies were the USSR and Germany. And only on the Eastern Front.

As for today's day, as the practice of the Iran-Iraqi, Indo-Pakistani and Iraqi wars has shown, it is easier for the solution of operational tasks to create on the basis of a tank division what? Correct, body! More mobile connection that does not require huge costs. And with the possibility of its dissolution after the combat mission.

So actually, it is the divisions that plan to create in our Ministry of Defense. Based on the already existing tank regiments and brigades. Not from scratch, we emphasize this. In the same Boguchar, where the 10-I Guards Tank Ural-Lviv Volunteer Division named after Marshal of the Soviet Union Malinovsky was withdrawn. Yes, today there is only a separate tank brigade, but the entire infrastructure created after the withdrawal of the division from the GSVG is preserved. And the question of reconstructing the division is not a question of years.

Why it was necessary to submit information in such a manner is not clear to us, to be honest. But the fact that fools in Russia (including those in the Ministry of Defense) is becoming less and less is quite obvious.

Maybe it just does not suit someone?
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  1. As langley
    As langley 18 January 2016 06: 57 New
    19
    Oh, and the 1st Guards Tank Army sounds beautiful, brrr, even skin goosebumps, romance
    1. Megatron
      Megatron 18 January 2016 07: 13 New
      +9
      I don’t intimidate us with these three hundred abrams.

      Moreover, they burn perfectly not only from the Cornets and Vampires, but even from the RPG-7 of the first modifications. And we have this good ....

      I think it’s better to focus on air defense and aviation.
      1. sergeyzzz
        sergeyzzz 18 January 2016 08: 01 New
        +1
        Believe me, there will be more of them.
    2. Nick888
      Nick888 18 January 2016 07: 35 New
      +1
      5th shock army - for me it’s even worse))
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 18 January 2016 07: 55 New
        +4
        For to create the planned three divisions is one thing, and the army is another. And three divisions - this is not the army. These are three divisions.
        Three divisions this is the tank army.
        In any case, that was exactly what was during the times of the USSR.
        to solve operational problems create on the basis of a tank division what? That's right, the case! More mobile connection
        Yeah, and what’s interesting, can count the number of tanks in the division and corps. The Soviet corps included 200 tanks. The meaning of the city fence.

        So in fact, it is the divisions that they plan to create in our Ministry of Defense.

        And the General Staff thinks differently
        1. kenig1
          kenig1 18 January 2016 08: 43 New
          +2
          The corps differs from the army in a smaller composition, respectively, in a defense or offensive zone, which can be argued more mobile for a long time.
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 18 January 2016 09: 00 New
            0
            Quote: kenig1
            The corps differs from the army in a smaller composition,

            The point is that the corps is better than the division — more mobile, although the corps is larger than the division in terms of composition. Therefore, it is not clear why this corps is more mobile than the division.
            1. kenig1
              kenig1 18 January 2016 16: 53 New
              0
              Dear, I repeat the corps differs from the army in composition, there are divisions everywhere, only there are more brigades in the corps, and there are more divisions in the army. The corps has a maximum of 2 divisions.
        2. Mik13
          Mik13 18 January 2016 09: 33 New
          12
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Three divisions this is the tank army.
          In any case, that was exactly what was during the times of the USSR.

          In fact, there are still structures in the army besides three divisions.
          So the three divisions are not a tank army at all. I am ashamed not to know.
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 18 January 2016 15: 07 New
            -1
            Quote: Mik13
            So the three divisions are not a tank army at all. I am ashamed not to know.

            I said that I do not know this? I said that the tank army includes three tank divisions.
            As for the hulls, it’s not only tanks that enter there.
            1. Mik13
              Mik13 18 January 2016 15: 29 New
              +3
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              Quote: Mik13
              So the three divisions are not a tank army at all. I am ashamed not to know.

              I said that I do not know this? I said that the tank army includes three tank divisions.
              As for the hulls, it’s not only tanks that enter there.

              Apparently, I misunderstood you. Your statement looked like this:
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              Three divisions this is the tank army.
              In any case, that was exactly what was during the times of the USSR.

              An army can remain even with one AP, but if it has all the appropriate structures, it retains most of the army’s capabilities and retains the ability to conduct operations. While a lone division outside the army cannot carry out operations.

              And your statement looked like it was enough to collect TDs under one command of 3 TD to get a TA - and this is not at all so.
              1. Alexander Romanov
                Alexander Romanov 18 January 2016 15: 34 New
                -2
                Quote: Mik13
                And your statement looked like it was enough to collect TDs under one command of 3 TD to get a TA - and this is not at all so.

                Yes, I just did not paint, well, that makes no sense, if the General Staff says that it creates an army, then it means an army.
                1. Mik13
                  Mik13 18 January 2016 15: 40 New
                  +2
                  Quote: Alexander Romanov
                  Yes, I just did not paint, well, that makes no sense, if the General Staff says that it creates an army, then it means an army.

                  Well - therefore, our positions on this issue coincide in general.
                  An army means an army. There will be no excess. hi
        3. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 18 January 2016 11: 51 New
          10
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Three divisions this is the tank army.
          In any case, that was exactly what was during the times of the USSR.

          Ahem ... during the Soviet era, the tank army had much more units and formations than 3 divisions. Here is the composition of the army units of the 1st Guards TA for 1991:
          234th Separate Security and Support Battalion
          181st guards missile Novozybkovskaya Red Banner, Orders of Suvorov and Alexander Nevsky Brigade
          432th missile brigade
          53rd anti-aircraft missile brigade
          308-I artillery brigade
          225th Separate Helicopter Regiment
          485th Separate Helicopter Regiment
          6th Separate Helicopter Squadron
          443rd Separate Engineering and Engineering Brigade
          68th pontoon bridge regiment
          6th Separate Airborne Battalion
          3rd Separate Guards Carpathian Red Banner, Order of Alexander Nevsky Communication Regiment
          253rd Separate Radio Engineering Regiment
          51st Separate Radio Engineering Battalion
          106th Separate Electronic Warfare Battalion
          595th Separate Infection Intelligence Battalion
          41st material support team
          303rd separate repair and restoration battalion
          338rd separate repair and restoration battalion
          583rd Surgical Moving Order of the Red Star Hospital
          1st Army Medical Warehouse
        4. Oden280
          Oden280 18 January 2016 12: 03 New
          +1
          The state corps included two divisions, plus reinforcement units according to the corps' mission. According to the staff of the USSR MSD, there were 240 MBTs, in the TD - 329. In general, for general development, take an interest in where the tank armies and corps went after the war.
      2. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
        Andrei from Chelyabinsk 18 January 2016 17: 03 New
        +1
        Quote: Nick888
        5th shock army - for me it’s even worse))

        Yes, how can I say ... I immediately remember the Great Patriotic War
        "We call ourselves the Sixth Panzer Army, because we have only six tanks left" (Wehrmacht General Joseph "Sepp" Dietrich, 1943)
    3. PSih2097
      PSih2097 18 January 2016 08: 21 New
      +7
      Quote: AS Langley
      Oh, and the 1st Guards Tank Army sounds beautiful, brrr, even skin goosebumps, romance

      it’s not in vain that they put him in a cantemi
    4. 222222
      222222 18 January 2016 08: 50 New
      10
      tank armies and tank divisions
      1. Information about the restoration of tank armies and tank divisions appears at the time of replacing tactical nuclear bombs in American warehouses in Europe and the deployment of warehouses for storing American heavy equipment in eastern Europe ..
      Thus, the Americans do not exclude the possibility of using tactical nuclear weapons in the European theater of war.
      2.According to the experience of the USSR Armed Forces exercises, in order to complicate the use of nuclear weapons by NATO, close contact of troops on the battlefield is necessary.TA as an element of the front's operational construction in the form of an operational maneuver group for breaking through or entering a breakthrough and actions behind enemy rears.Tank divisions are likely to be under army command ..
      3. The new military political situation has already forced to change some provisions of the national security strategy of the Russian Federation and military doctrine
    5. smart75
      smart75 18 January 2016 12: 56 New
      +1
      "10th Guards Tank Ural-Lvov Volunteer Division"

      Not worse, especially recalling the Ural Volunteer Tank Corps.
      I myself am from Perm, they remember the 299 Guards Mortar Regiment (Motovilikha).
      1. 222222
        222222 18 January 2016 13: 30 New
        +2
        smart75 (1) RU Today, 12:56 PM ↑ New
        "10th Guards Tank Ural-Lvov Volunteer Division"
        ..... especially recalling the Ural Volunteer Tank Corps.
        I myself am from Perm, ... "
        ... Degtyarsk, Sverdovsk region, school No. 30. At this place was the headquarters formed for the UDTK 30 MSBR ... "Formed in March - April 1943 in the Sverdlovsk region as the 30th motorized rifle brigade.

        It was included in the 30th Ural Volunteer (since October 1943 the 10th Guards Ural Volunteer) shopping mall, which included, with a short break (in September 1943), fought until the end of the war.

        For military services it was transformed into the 29th Guards Motorized Rifle. brigade (October 1943), awarded the honorary title "Unechskaya" (September 1943), awarded the Orders of Lenin, the Red Banner, Suvorov II degree, Kutuzov II degree, Bogdan Khmelnitsky I degree, Alexander Nevsky; over 14 thousand of its soldiers were awarded orders and medals, 9 were awarded the title of Hero of the Soviet Union. ""
        Ponder SIX ORDERS. !!!
    6. Alekseev
      Alekseev 19 January 2016 20: 02 New
      +1
      Quote: AS Langley
      Oh, the 1st Guards Tank Army sounds beautiful.

      Sounds do not accurately characterize the essence of the matter.
      TA or combined arms - these are currently combined arms formations.
      Already during the WWII, the Germans had a number of associations in the middle and end of the war, although they were called TAs, but in essence they were combined arms.
      So it’s not the name, but the real composition.
      With the known unsinkable borovka in the western direction there were only two army directorates and several combined arms units (brigades) for them, which, probably, will not be enough.
      For comparison, in previous years, only in Eastern and Central Europe did the USSR have three groups of troops, with about three armies in the ground forces, and the GSVG, two more TAs, and three combined arms armies. Yes allies, yes inner districts.
      Yes, now the time has changed, but, given the current threats, at least 15-20 percent of the previous composition of the combined arms of the Russian Federation should be able to deploy within 2-3 weeks, and have three or four divisions (the equivalent of a dozen brigades) completely combat ready.
  2. Nehist
    Nehist 18 January 2016 07: 20 New
    +3
    Already 4 military schools for two and could not be in active defense? What did you learn? I agree that a tank army is not needed at this stage. Although three APs with the addition of motorized rifles and amplification tools suddenly what? Correctly turn into an army. But with regular events, it’s just tight. Now even a division from the brigade is difficult to deploy because the entire infrastructure is killed.
    1. chunga-changa
      chunga-changa 18 January 2016 10: 59 New
      +1
      There are different educational institutions. For example - the rear school, or here - the ensign school, also a military educational institution.
      It is not clear from the article whether the author is for army divisions or against, there is nothing about it, but there is plenty of poison against a very specific person. I conclude that the author clearly has something personal to this Ishchenko. Maybe the money order once intercepted, where they had a booze, they didn’t divide the woman, everything happens. Or it’s just wetting a competitor in expert writing, times are now difficult.
      1. Nehist
        Nehist 18 January 2016 12: 50 New
        +1
        So the concepts of attack, defense, mobile defense, counter-attacks, etc., are taught in all schools. This is the basics.
        1. chunga-changa
          chunga-changa 18 January 2016 21: 27 New
          0
          These two were obviously taught something else.
  3. 31rus
    31rus 18 January 2016 07: 23 New
    +3
    Dear, I didn’t understand the meaning of this article? Ishchenko wrote, so what? Ishchenko is not the Minister of Defense and is not even a member of the General Staff, he is just a consultant and has the right to his own vision of problems and threats and all this can be put to the end. As for 300 tanks, the author is not right to become the same as Ishchenko, namely, these are the so-called forces providing, precisely ensuring the deployment of the main forces of NATO, and given that we have not one part from the border with Ukraine to Kursk itself (training auto in Belgorod), it turns out that these 300 NATO tanks will reach ak times before the Moscow region
  4. ImPerts
    ImPerts 18 January 2016 07: 53 New
    15
    The press, she’s such a press ...
  5. sergeyzzz
    sergeyzzz 18 January 2016 08: 00 New
    +8
    A huge minus to the author for the shortsightedness. After 2-3 months, numerous abrams can travel around Ukraine to prevent this from happening - for this, a tank army is being created. If you have sawdust in your head, do not bother criticizing the authorities. They do everything right - they respond to a real threat.
    1. kenig1
      kenig1 18 January 2016 08: 48 New
      +6
      That's right, when we abandoned the tank armies, we became unable to conduct front-line operations in a full-scale war, namely, breaking through the enemy’s defense line during the offensive and carrying out counterattacks.
  6. Wolka
    Wolka 18 January 2016 08: 01 New
    +3
    all this fuss from the unprofessionalism of a certain Ishchenko, however, it seems that if the Minister of Defense of the Russian Federation openly spoke about something, this does not mean that subordinates are allowed to chat and comment publicly voiced by the Minister, in general this person should voice his tongue while voicing the decisions of the General Staff of the Russian Federation , because it’s not in vain that the talker says a godsend for a spy, because it makes sense to think and take this person away ...
  7. Vladimir 23rus
    Vladimir 23rus 18 January 2016 08: 46 New
    +9
    I repeat that we poorly understand how TA can passively defend
    And who is talking about passive defense? There is such a thing as active defense.
    The only ones who operated with tank armies were the USSR and Germany. And only on the Eastern Front.
    And on what front is NATO increasing the number of troops?
    Nothing that the budget will be sentenced, right?
    The first three oligarchs "dispossessed" will be enough for a tank army and a couple of aircraft carriers! You can minus everything wink
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 18 January 2016 09: 01 New
      -9
      Quote: Vladimir 23rus
      The first three oligarchs "dispossessed" will be enough for a tank army,

      In 1917, they dispossessed and, as a result, the country slid into complete poverty.
  8. vladimirvn
    vladimirvn 18 January 2016 09: 18 New
    +5
    Well, yes, that's why she rolled down. If they were not touched, we would be happy.
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    In 1917, they dispossessed and, as a result, the country slid into complete poverty.
    1. Alexander Romanov
      Alexander Romanov 18 January 2016 09: 22 New
      -5
      Quote: vladimirvn
      Well, yes, that's why she rolled down. If they were not touched, we would be happy.
      1. Cap.Morgan
        Cap.Morgan 18 January 2016 22: 34 New
        0
        Minusers got in trouble.
        No peace gives someone else's Merc and a three-story mansion. Fight with a feeling of envy, comrades !!!
  9. Thunderbolt
    Thunderbolt 18 January 2016 09: 27 New
    +9
    The military-political situation in the world has been aggravating lately. Who knows what might happen in six months or a year? It is possible that NATO will want to conduct major operational and strategic exercises (following the example of our West 81 - in Ukraine, in The Baltic States, the Baltic and Black Seas? Passively observing such events will not be enough. We need a full-fledged instrument on our western border. It will be useful, for example, for unblocking Transnistria (at the same time establishing a land connection with Crimea) or to sit firmly on the southern borders. After all, ours with you Middle Asia. A universal tool capable of performing a very deep operation.
    1. domokl
      domokl 18 January 2016 10: 02 New
      0
      Hi Lesh. So what? If the situation worsens do we need an armored fist? I don’t see the logic. Tank divisions, of the full composition, naturally, can easily be attached to the existing combined arms armies and will do their job perfectly.
      and all these arguments about the armored fist, which someone will be afraid of bluffing ... a look from the past.
      1. Mik13
        Mik13 18 January 2016 10: 59 New
        0
        Quote: domokl
        If the situation worsens do we need an armored fist? I don’t see the logic. Tank divisions, of the full composition, naturally, can easily be attached to the existing combined arms armies and will do their job perfectly.
        and all these arguments about the armored fist, which someone will be afraid of bluffing ... a look from the past.


        Or maybe just another army is needed? How many are there now? According to Wikipedia bully - their 10, and all combined arms, from them in ZVO - all 2

        At 2012, the Ground Forces numbered 10 armies with a total strength of about 395 000 people.

        Western Military District 6-I Combined Arms Red Banner Army with headquarters in St. Petersburg and 20-I Guards Combined-Arms Red Banner Army with headquarters in Voronezh
        Southern Military District The 49-I combined army with headquarters in Stavropol and the 58-I combined army with headquarters in Vladikavkaz
        Central Military District 2-I Guards Combined Arms Red Banner Army with headquarters in Samara and 41-I Guards Combined Arms Red Banner Army with headquarters in Novosibirsk
        Eastern Military District 5-I combined army with headquarters in Ussuriysk, 29-I combined army with headquarters in Chita, 35-I combined army with headquarters in Belogorsk and 36-I combined army with headquarters in Ulan-Ude

        proof


        Why not strengthen the ZVO with yet another army?
        Moreover, 3 divisions cannot carry out an army operation. And the army, which these 3 divisions are part of, can.
        As for the OSH, I don’t think that the tank army is significantly different from the combined arms.
      2. Mik13
        Mik13 18 January 2016 11: 10 New
        +3
        Quote: domokl
        and all these arguments about the armored fist, which someone will be afraid of bluffing ... a look from the past.

        By the way, as a PS - the use of large tank formations from a tactical point of view may be necessary in conditions when the infantry is unable to act. For example, in the context of the use of weapons of mass destruction by the parties to the conflict - TNW, for example. So it's not that simple with the "armored fist". "The world has changed" (c)
      3. Thunderbolt
        Thunderbolt 18 January 2016 11: 27 New
        +2
        Hi.TA in the offensive has more striking power and a pace higher. For this, it is more optimized than the combined arms association. I will not write about Ukraine here so as not to stir up passions, but I will say a little. There are several negative scenarios: aggravation of the situation in LDNR, anarchy in Kiev, the blockade of Transnistria or the Kaliningrad fortified area, a series of provocations from the Kiev authorities with a request to send NATO troops to Ukraine under the auspices of European peacekeepers. In this case, you will have to act very quickly and decisively or simply - - in advance. Airborne and tanks.
  10. miha77
    miha77 18 January 2016 09: 54 New
    +4
    the creation of a tank army is definitely a necessary thing, especially nowadays
    1. Stena
      Stena 18 January 2016 11: 13 New
      -14
      Quote: miha77
      the creation of a tank army is definitely a necessary thing, especially nowadays

      In hohland - create. Build a fleet. Just buy your brains, or when you don’t have your own, only the creation of a tank army can help. Although, this is also unlikely ...
      1. Mik13
        Mik13 18 January 2016 11: 22 New
        +7
        Quote: Stena
        Quote: miha77
        the creation of a tank army is definitely a necessary thing, especially nowadays

        In hohland - create. Build a fleet. Just buy your brains, or when you don’t have your own, only the creation of a tank army can help. Although, this is also unlikely ...

        Eeee ... tell me, and before you bark the opponent’s flag, didn’t you pay attention (well, purely by chance) to your own? But you never know ...
        And the transition to personalities is such a thing. Not only everyone knows how to get personal. Although - there are also good reasons for such behavior. Maybe the "refugees" caught you in the wilds of Cologne and ... let you go - so this is tolerant, you shouldn't pour aggression on your opponent because of this. Better to take a shower. More useful for hygiene.
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. The comment was deleted.
            1. Stena
              Stena 18 January 2016 12: 14 New
              -4
              Content on the topic of the article have something to say? Tips in the field of physiology gives a physician. Are you a medic? To begin with, you need to experiment on yourself before recommending to others ...
              1. Mik13
                Mik13 18 January 2016 12: 49 New
                +4
                Quote: Stena
                Content on the topic of the article have something to say? Tips in the field of physiology gives a physician. Are you a medic? To begin with, you need to experiment on yourself before recommending to others ...

                And I said informatively on the topic of the article - there are a few comments above. Turn the page with your finger. It is not difficult. No more complicated than tolerance in the wilds of Cologne ...

                And off topic, it was you who spoke out - everything is there.
                miha77 spoke on the topic - and you allowed yourself insulting statements on a national basis instead of discussing the essence of the issue. So from yourself and begin the educational process.
                1. Stena
                  Stena 18 January 2016 13: 59 New
                  -1
                  Quote: miha77
                  the creation of a tank army is definitely a necessary thing, especially nowadays

                  Is this the topic of the article? How is this justified? From what perspective is the creation of a tank army an indispensable thing? Where are the arguments? Digits?
                  What am I wrong about? The fact that Ukrainians are constantly doing stupid things? Look at the time after the collapse of the USSR, what they had and what became. After that, try to justify - that this is not complete nonsense. If there is a desire, I can confirm my words with numbers - official from the site - http://www.ukrstat.gov.ua/ State statistics of Ukraine.

                  Quote: Mik13
                  Why not strengthen the ZVO with yet another army?
                  Moreover, 3 divisions cannot carry out an army operation. And the army, which these 3 divisions are part of, can.
                  As for the OSH, I don’t think that the tank army is significantly different from the combined arms.

                  What is the reason for this? Numbers from Wikipedia? Weak source. And this is far from meaningful - for the justification is weak. If you want objectivity - write - only my opinion or IMHO or something like that. And so any of your comments ...
                  Quote: Mik13
                  Eeee ... tell me, and before you bark the opponent’s flag, didn’t you pay attention (well, purely by chance) to your own? But you never know ...

                  What kind of hitting is this? What is justified?
                  Quote: Mik13
                  And the transition to personalities is such a thing. Not only everyone knows how to get personal. Although - there are also good reasons for such behavior. Maybe the "refugees" caught you in the wilds of Cologne and ... they let you go, so this is tolerant, you shouldn't pour aggression on your opponent because of this

                  What's this? Legends and myths? Where does this come from? What do you know about me? Where is the rationale?

                  Quote: Mik13
                  He was also a Nazi-Nazi, but mowed down as a patriot.

                  Also who and how? Who is a Nazi? The one who expresses his own opinion based on real facts or the one who kills people and spread rot for the fact that they do not belong to the chosen race? Where in my comments shows that this is so? Did I call to kill someone? Or put in jail on a national basis? Not. So what does Nazism have to do with it?
                  Quote: Mik13
                  I sympathize with your grief. Go to the shower. And put a candle. With diclofenac.

                  Are you a doctor? If not, then test your sexual fantasies on yourself.
                  Quote: Mik13
                  And off topic, it was you who spoke out - everything is there.

                  Man - with a hohlyatky flag from the first comment wrote unreasonable nonsense. He was answered - translating into a simple language - first solve your problems, and then give advice. Absolutely the topic of the article.
                  Quote: Mik13
                  So from yourself and begin the educational process.

                  No need to educate me - I'm not your boy. I just don’t like it when they start poking me, absolutely groundlessly, and even posing as my own stupidity as a great achievement.
                  1. Mik13
                    Mik13 18 January 2016 15: 01 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Stena
                    Quote: miha77
                    the creation of a tank army is definitely a necessary thing, especially nowadays

                    Is this the topic of the article? How is this justified? From what perspective is the creation of a tank army an indispensable thing? Where are the arguments? Digits?

                    This is a personal opinion of a person. IMHO, as they say on the Internet. He expressed it. If you want to refute - refute - including with numbers, if there is such a desire.
                    But instead, you deigned to write:
                    Quote: Stena
                    In xoxland - create. Build a fleet. Just buy your brains, or when you don’t have your own, only the creation of a tank army can help. Although, this is also unlikely ...
                    This is called a transition to personalities, moreover on a national basis - you didn’t like the opponent’s flag.
                    Quote: Stena
                    What am I wrong?

                    You are wrong in that, instead of discussing the article, in essence, we switched to individuals. If u miha77 the flag of the Russian Federation stood - how would you object? No way.
                    Quote: Stena
                    Quote: Mik13
                    Eeee ... tell me, and before you bark the opponent’s flag, didn’t you pay attention (well, purely by chance) to your own? But you never know ...

                    What kind of hitting is this? What is justified?
                    This is not a collision - this is a remark. and it is justified, for example, by the fact that in your comments the EU flag lights up. And with such an identifier, even trying to cling to the interlocutors for the Ukrainian flag looks somehow funny.
                    1. Stena
                      Stena 18 January 2016 15: 18 New
                      -1
                      Quote: Mik13
                      This is a personal opinion of a person. IMHO, as they say on the Internet. He expressed it. If you want to refute - refute - including with numbers, if there is such a desire.

                      The man wrote something, but this is not an opinion - it’s just some sort of stuffing of unfounded information. The best attack is an attack. But this is not about you. You just have one trynde. Unreasonable like all your other comments.
                      Quote: Mik13
                      This is called a transition to personalities, moreover on a national basis - you didn’t like the opponent’s flag.

                      Where is the transition to personality? You don’t need to give out your thoughts for mine. I did not like the outright stupidity of what was written. And the flags have nothing to do with it.
                      Quote: Mik13
                      You are wrong in that, instead of discussing the article, in essence, we switched to individuals. If miha77 had the RF flag, how would you object? No way.

                      This is your personal opinion, and, as always, unreasonable. There is no need to decide for me and no need to think for me. And even more so, to say that I would do something if. If grandmother had ... he would be grandfather ...

                      Quote: Mik13
                      This is not a collision - this is a remark. and it is justified, for example, by the fact that in your comments the EU flag lights up. And with such an identifier, even trying to cling to the interlocutors for the Ukrainian flag looks somehow funny.

                      Do not give out your speculation for the ultimate truth. You write nonsense in no way justified.
                      Please answer my question meaningfully -
                      Quote: Stena
                      Also who and how? Who is a Nazi? The one who expresses his own opinion based on real facts or the one who kills people and spread rot for the fact that they do not belong to the chosen race? Where in my comments shows that this is so? Did I call to kill someone? Or put in jail on a national basis? Not. So what does Nazism have to do with it?

                      Or is it very convenient not to answer uncomfortable questions?
                  2. Mik13
                    Mik13 18 January 2016 15: 20 New
                    +1
                    Quote: Stena
                    Quote: Mik13
                    And the transition to personalities is such a thing. Not only everyone knows how to get personal. Although - there are also good reasons for such behavior. Maybe the "refugees" caught you in the wilds of Cologne and ... let you go - so this is tolerant, you shouldn't pour aggression on your opponent because of this. Better to take a shower. More useful for hygiene.
                    What's this? Legends and myths? Where does this come from? What do you know about me? Where is the rationale?

                    This is an assumption about the reasons for the inappropriate behavior that you demonstrate, related to the EU identifier you show. Or are you using anonymizer? So it is forbidden on the site ...
                    Quote: Stena
                    Also who and how? Who is a Nazi? The one who expresses his own opinion based on real facts or the one who kills people and spread rot for the fact that they do not belong to the chosen race? Where in my comments shows that this is so? Did I call to kill someone? Or put in jail on a national basis? Not. So what does Nazism have to do with it?
                    Nazism is not just calls for imprisonment. Statements linking negative characteristics with nationality are also quite Nazism. Read books if Wikipedia is not a source for you.
                    Quote: Stena
                    Quote: Mik13
                    So from yourself and begin the educational process.
                    No need to educate me - I'm not your boy. I just don’t like it when they start poking me, absolutely groundlessly, and even posing as my own stupidity as a great achievement.

                    If this attack is in my address - in vain. Firstly, I don’t poke my interlocutors without emergency, including on the Internet. And even in this thread it was you who allowed yourself to poke. So take your dislike.
                    Secondly, about the groundlessness - in my opinion, everything is already obvious. You, by the way, should also apologize for the comment deleted by the moderators. I understand, of course, that in the EU you can use tolerance and not answer for your words - so use it.
                    Well and thirdly - as for my mental abilities - so there are those who are adequately evaluated. I assure you, you do not have a chance to get into the list of these respected people even theoretically, therefore, your opinion on this issue does not interest me.
                    1. Stena
                      Stena 18 January 2016 16: 13 New
                      -1
                      Quote: Mik13
                      If this attack is in my address - in vain. Firstly, I don’t poke my interlocutors without emergency, including on the Internet. And even in this thread it was you who allowed yourself to poke. So take your dislike.
                      Secondly, about the groundlessness - in my opinion, everything is already obvious. You, by the way, should also apologize for the comment deleted by the moderators. I understand, of course, that in the EU you can use tolerance and not answer for your words - so use it.
                      Well and thirdly - as for my mental abilities - so there are those who are adequately evaluated. I assure you, you do not have a chance to get into the list of these respected people even theoretically, therefore, your opinion on this issue does not interest me.

                      You called me a Nazi. Moreover, it is completely unjustified. And now you need an apology? Well done. Burn Jescho ...
                      Quote: Mik13
                      Nazism is not just calls for imprisonment. Statements linking negative characteristics with nationality are also quite Nazism. Read books if Wikipedia is not a source for you.

                      Trynin 'again. Give definition at least one of the encyclopedia. What is Nazism. And not your speculation ...
                      Quote: Mik13
                      Secondly, about the groundlessness - in my opinion, everything is already obvious.

                      What is obvious to one is completely not obvious to the other. And this is not proof. it’s obvious to me that you are a balabol, because everything you say or write is what seems to you to be true. Although there is no evidence of this .. But others do not think so. Therefore, about the evidence - it is better not to stutter ....
                      Quote: Mik13
                      I understand, of course, that in the EU you can use tolerance and not answer for your words - so use it.

                      You don’t know h.ra about me, but you draw far-reaching conclusions. In what specific place did I not answer for the bazaar? Poke your nose - be a friend. And if you can’t, here’s another confirmation of my innocence (or rather, your innocence).
                      Quote: Mik13
                      Well and thirdly - as for my mental abilities - so there are those who are adequately evaluated.

                      I do not care about your supposedly mental abilities. Stop giving your speculation as the ultimate truth. And to offend people, calling them Nazis for nothing, for nothing. And also inventing all sorts of fables, looking at the flag. And to invent what they would say if ... Facts are already beginning to be interpreted, and not your speculation.
  11. polkovnik manuch
    polkovnik manuch 18 January 2016 09: 59 New
    +7
    It is not advisable to create a TA in peacetime, we are not that rich, but to prepare the units and formations that it needs during deployment - this must be done ahead of time. In vain, dear colleagues do not put the Armed Forces in anything, they have also learned something, and the Balts do not sit idly by either. Three hundred nuclear bombs, "Tomahawk flocks", also cannot be discounted. You need to prepare now and always. Better I will sit on bread, water and potatoes, but the RF Armed Forces must be provided with EVERYTHING and with a SUPPLY. Already several times he touched upon the topic of military registration and enlistment offices, which Serdyukov lowered "below the plinth", the military must be urgently returned: it is they who should be engaged in mobilization issues and preparation, the supply of the conscript contingent, and not the aunts (let women not be offended!) end of the working day. It's high time to "shake up" effective managers "and a number of oligarchs who want to" breathe the air of the West "! Look, an extra trillion" green "will appear in the treasury, and the rest will think about what Russia needs to live, and not" earn "money in Russia.
    1. domokl
      domokl 18 January 2016 14: 32 New
      0
      So far, the first competent comment of a military man .. I agree with you
      1. Tektor
        Tektor 18 January 2016 16: 48 New
        +1
        I am not special, but since the creation of TA was announced, the decision was weighed and made. I also thought, why not the case? 2 divisions - corps, 2 corps - army. About. Probably, there is no need or opportunity to create 4 divisions ... The army will consist of three divisions + divisions.
    2. Mik13
      Mik13 18 January 2016 15: 57 New
      +1
      Quote: polkovnik manuch
      To create a TA in peacetime is not advisable, we are not so rich, but to prepare the parts and formations that she needs during deployment, this must be done ahead of time.

      Excuse me, but what - the preparation of the units and formations that the army needs when deploying (including the very three TDs) - is this not the creation of an army?
      Of course, there is also the army headquarters - but it is the most important link in this list of expenses - and the cheapest. At that time, it was necessary to train the army headquarters officers and components for a long time and intensively, including for joint actions in such a composition. I have to conduct all kinds of KShU, prepare staff documentation (including documents for actions on signals of various kinds), etc.
      So I didn’t understand your statement very well.
  12. Riv
    Riv 18 January 2016 10: 15 New
    -1
    The author is somehow strange ... It should be obvious to any officer (what’s there, to any sergeant) that the last thing they will do when forming a combat formation is to notify the potential protector. But here it’s not easy to inform! Estimated composition, number of vehicles, deployment - everything is known in advance. Well, it doesn’t happen like that.

    Shoigu said? So he still will not say something. That's why he and the Minister of Defense, in order to mislead the enemy. And if it scares you, it's generally good. Maybe there will be three divisions. Maybe an army. Or three armies. Or maybe all these Russians have lied, let them guess at Langley.

    And you, gentlemen, officers, you need to thump less and keep your playful pens out of a hangover away from the computer.
    1. castle
      castle 18 January 2016 15: 02 New
      +4
      Scare? Who does he scare so much? Only Russian taxpayers. Like, there will be no money left for medicine, for education, for retirement. There will be no money for elevator repairs either. But there will be tank armies. In how Russians will be well fed. Not Gorbachev should be blamed for the collapse of the USSR, but the exorbitant appetites of the Moscow Region and the military-industrial complex.
      1. Riv
        Riv 18 January 2016 15: 25 New
        +2
        And military spending does not need to be afraid. These are exactly the same jobs. Rather, it is the same jobs. A thousand people are involved in the assembly of the tank, but another twenty million work for the same assembly. This is ferrous and non-ferrous metallurgy, chemical industry, oil refining, textile industry ... but in general everything. Without a non-manufacturing sector, too, high technology is impossible. Workers receive a salary, buy housing, teach children ... Everything is connected.

        That is why the Armata and the launching of cruise missiles from small ships came as a surprise to America. Because just yesterday America was out of competition, and the Russians were only exploiting the legacy of the USSR and (suddenly!) It turned out that this was not so.
        1. Mik13
          Mik13 18 January 2016 15: 34 New
          +1
          Quote: Riv
          And military spending does not need to be afraid. These are exactly the same jobs. Rather, it is the same jobs. A thousand people are involved in the assembly of the tank, but another twenty million work for the same assembly. This is ferrous and non-ferrous metallurgy, chemical industry, oil refining, textile industry ... but in general everything. Without a non-manufacturing sector, too, high technology is impossible. Workers receive a salary, buy housing, teach children ... Everything is connected.

          The military industrial complex in general has always been a locomotive that pulled out the rest of the economy - even in the United States. And Russia in a dense environment probable enemies incredible friends - and even more so the economy for hair is precisely for the defense industry and it is necessary to pull out.

          For if today you exchange the army for sausage, then tomorrow it may easily turn out that not the army was exchanged for yesterday's sausage, but "tomorrow" itself for the whole country.
          If you want peace, get ready for war. As the example of Ukraine showed - the option of spreading shit doesn’t work - they will gobble up anyway ...
  13. Belousov
    Belousov 18 January 2016 10: 25 New
    +1
    On the one hand, TA is a good, powerful and effective business. On the other hand, TA is an expensive and complex business that requires special conditions of use, you won't chase terrorists in Syria in the TA desert. We need to understand - will there be a real need for TA? Where, against whom? Now, neither the Balts are our opponents to the Ruin, but it will not take long to transfer a hundred or two US tanks there, for example, from Germany and like "transfer" to the Ukrainian military or Baltic warriors, not long. And then TA will be very useful. So you have to think, think very well.
  14. Velizariy
    Velizariy 18 January 2016 12: 06 New
    +2
    ... The only ones who operated with tank armies were the USSR and Germany. And only on the Eastern Front ...
    This is not entirely true, or rather not at all. You need to be objective and you are not illiterate.
  15. Dark mol
    Dark mol 18 January 2016 12: 16 New
    +5
    This is a tank expert! Expert for all experts! Excuse me, did you think the Manchurian offensive operation took place without tank armies? Or have you been to Europe? In fact, this is the largest and most effective tank operation of the Second World War. Did you accidentally notice the elephant? The rest of the "analytics" is even dumber.

    Admins drop beer and remove this nonsense!
    1. Cap.Morgan
      Cap.Morgan 18 January 2016 22: 39 New
      0
      In Manchuria, the entire war lasted a week.
      Tank armies were used because they were already in stock. What now to reformat them?
  16. nekromonger
    nekromonger 18 January 2016 12: 52 New
    +1
    1. A full-strength tank army is a real armor class capable of breaking through anything. Question: what should be pierced in case of what? Ukraine? Sorry, but the whole army of Ukraine can be rolled by the forces of two brigades. This is not hats, this is the real thing. The APU in its current state will at best be able to imitate the fighting.

    Terrible have already taken, if you do not remember.
  17. dgiguli1962
    dgiguli1962 18 January 2016 13: 25 New
    0
    It’s cool. Someone blurs some nonsense [about TA], and the rest rush like discusses. They are going to create 3 divisions, not even tank ones.
    1. Pissarro
      Pissarro 18 January 2016 15: 36 New
      0
      Well, it’s not someone who blurted out, but TASS, a very reputable agency. With reference to a source in the General Staff. The specific deadline is December 1, 2015, the specific commander is indicated - Major General Alexander Chuyko. Moreover, the source outlined plans to create another TA, except for the first guards, emphasizing that in contrast to the first TA, where everything has already been formed, more than one document has not been adopted according to the second, the question is at the stage of elaboration of its necessity.
      This TASS message was dated July 29 2015, there were no rebuttals.
      http://tass.ru/armiya-i-opk/2150702

      Why the whole cry of the author of the article is not clear at all
      1. domokl
        domokl 18 January 2016 17: 08 New
        0
        Quote: Pissarro
        This TASS message was dated July 29 2015, there were no rebuttals.

        Huh ... I looked at the calendar .. We have January 18 2016 year. and Shoigu has not yet been seen in awesome .... Performs what he promises ... So, somewhere here is not docking. I don’t know where ..
  18. cedar
    cedar 18 January 2016 14: 08 New
    +1
    Quote: Stena
    In hohland - create. Build a fleet. Just buy your brains, or when you don’t have your own, only the creation of a tank army can help. Although, this is also unlikely ...

    They can no longer, there the situation is 1941-1943. Full occupation, but tricky ..! Only TA can help with everything that is due to it. And there are brains, not all of them have bounced, but people are being pressed in full, the goal is to pit, divide and rule.
    1. Stena
      Stena 18 January 2016 14: 29 New
      -2
      Quote: cedar
      they cannot, the situation is 1941-1943. Full occupation, but tricky ..

      There, the war continued with the Nazis (Khokhlov-Bandera), if my memory serves me until the end of the 60s of the 20th century (I can be mistaken here). Moreover, they wanted independence very much. In general, the same thing as now - one to one. The article was recently in VO. If there is a desire, everything is described in great detail there.
  19. jonht
    jonht 19 January 2016 06: 11 New
    0
    In my opinion, the article directly states that 3 TDs are not yet an army, and that wishful thinking, to put it mildly, is nonsense ... Yes, from 3 TDs and many more units added to them, it is "possible" to form an army, but in this it makes sense that at this stage, not an army, but divisions, and not in a new place, but 3 existing bases are being formed. Although, yes, an article on the topic of "topic" ....
  20. iouris
    iouris 19 January 2016 12: 03 New
    0
    TA on the march is a good target.
  21. rJIiOK
    rJIiOK 6 February 2016 01: 06 New
    0
    Well, Roman and Alexander, you sprayed saliva, sprayed, and the Ministry of Defense did create a tank army.
    Why did another author roll up in the mud?