Military Review

Why do you need a shell in the shape of a triangle? Samnites against Rome

93
The power of the great Rome, which created in Europe the first empire that existed for such a long time, eclipsed for the historians the fate of many other peoples who lived in Italy "before Rome" and "simultaneously with Rome". Meanwhile, the culture of these peoples largely influenced Rome.



Mural from Paestum. Armor and weapon Samnite warriors. It is indicative that a warrior with a round shield has two spears with belt loops, that is, this weapon is for throwing. Museum of Naples.

In one of the articles published here, it has already been noted that Rome is a “imitator state” that successfully borrowed and developed the achievements of other nations. A scutum shield, a Hispanic sword, a gamata chainmail (“Gallic shirt”) are just a small part of what they have taken from others. And there was a “export of brains” and “workers,” a violent, true. And also “borrowing” of statues, paintings, gold and jewels.

Why do you need a shell in the shape of a triangle? Samnites against Rome

Etruscan amphora. The Romans had something to learn from the Etruscans, at least in terms of erotic fun. Archaeological Museum of Naples.


Another amphora on the same topic. Metropolitan Museum, New York.

But while Rome had not yet gained strength, many other nations lived next to it on the territory of Italy. For example, there developed a civilization of the Etruscans, which had a great influence on him, moreover, Rome itself was under their authority. The Romans borrowed from them the arch, gladiatorial battles and chariot races. However, later the inhabitants of Etruria received Roman citizenship and ... dissolved among the Romans. Today we can judge them only on the basis of rich burials and ... everything!


The Etruscan chariot of Monteleone. Around 530 BC. Bronze and Bone. Length 209 cm. Height 130,9 cm. Metropolitan Museum, New York.

However, militarily, we are primarily interested in military история, the Etruscans did not represent anything special. The weapons that are found in the tombs are traditionally of the Greek type and belong mainly to phalangite warriors. True, they had a characteristic form of armor in the form of a round chest plate, fixed on four straps. But more often they used classical linen and anatomical bronze shells, often covered with tin. Known to the Etruscans was the chain mail.


Helmet Negau. Museum of St. Giulia, Brescia.

The most typical helmet was a Negau-type helmet, named after the village in Yugoslavia, where a lot of such helmets were found. It is known that they had to know, who fought on chariots and the infantry from the people of "ordinary".

However, from the point of view of military history, the other Italian people, who were very different from the Romans in both language and culture, are self-interested, but still more interesting. The territory on which they lived was called Samniy, the Samnites spoke in the Oka dialect, and the political form of their organization was the Samnite Federation, which was a union of the tribes.


Samnitsky warrior figurine III BC Museum of the Roman civilization. Della Chivilta, Rome.

Now and then the Samnites fought against the Roman-Etruscan army of the first Roman kings, and with varying success. It is known that during the reign of Tsar Tarquinius the Ancient, it consisted of three parts: a phalanx consisting of Etruscans, the Romans themselves and the Latins. Titus Livius left us with an interesting description of the Samnite warriors, who according to him looked like this: they had a helmet with a crest, and I hang one on my left foot. The shield is not round, but in a somewhat unusual shape - wide and flat at the top to protect the chest and shoulders, but tapering downwards. He further writes that there were warriors with golden shields, and were with silver ones. “Gold” wore multicolored tunics, gilded sheath and sash, and “silver” - white linen tunics and silver trimmed equipment!


Warriors samnity. Artist Richard Hook.

The English historian Peter Connolly states on this point that in this case “History” Livia cannot be believed, since he describes not the soldiers, but the Roman gladiators of the “Samnites”. At the same time, there are many images of Samnites that allow one to accurately reconstruct their appearance. There is also a statuette "Samnitsky warrior" from the Louvre. He has an attic-type helmet on his head, a three-disc chest armor and leggings that blend well with the images of a Samnite warrior on a vase from Campania, which is in the British Museum.


Greek helmet from southern Italy end of the IV. BC. Museum of Fine Arts Boston, USA.

All this allows us to reasonably reasonably say that the Samnite weapons complex was very different from the Roman one, so that it was easy to distinguish between them in battle. Let's start with ... the belt worn by the Italians (not only the Samnites!) Who represented a strip of bronze 8-12 cm wide, fastened with two hooks. And there were several pair of holes on it, which made it easy to fit it on the figure.


Samnite shell from the tomb of Ksur-es-Sad. Bardo Museum, Tunisia.

Next comes the shell of a completely unusual shape - in the form of a triangle composed of three discs. In total, archaeologists have found 15 of such shells, which indicates their distribution. The shell consisted of two plates: the front and the back, with the belt was not connected in any way, and on the body it was fastened with the help of curved bronze plates. That is, such armor set aside open quite significant areas of the body and this is where the main question arises - why? After all, the armor must protect the warrior so that he is not distracted by parrying the opponent's strikes at his unprotected places, but trying to kill him first. The full Greek invulnerability for the torso could be given (and gave!) By the traditional Greek muscular shell, and such shells reached us, but only they are much smaller than the “three-disk” ones. And there is still no answer to this: where does this form come from, and why is it better than others?

The next type of shell, known for its frescoes and finds, is also quite original. These are square plates with rounded edges for the chest and back with “anatomical embossing” depicting the muscles of the chest, abdomen and back. But ... these shells themselves are small, their length does not exceed 30 cm, so the pattern of the muscles with the muscles proper does not even closely match. That is, we are nothing more than a symbolic copy of the full anatomical shell, which, of course, is very interesting. These plates were fixed on the warrior’s body in the same way as the “three-disk shells” - that is, with the help of bronze plates about 12 cm wide, which had fasteners on rings and hooks. They did not use samnites and scaly shells, although they became known to the same Romans, most likely, simultaneously with chain mail.


The helmet is clearly of Samnite origin 350 - 200's. BC. Paul Getty Museum, California.

What else the Samnites decided to differ from all the others (and how else to say otherwise?) Is the decoration of helmets. Actually, they are all recognized by the characteristic holders for feathers. By itself, the helmet is quite ordinary - it is a Halkid helmet without a spatter and with hinged shoulder pads. They adopted it from the Greeks, this is understandable, but they added to it two tubes to the left and right of the ridge or the place where it was located with the Greeks. Often the helmet was decorated with tin wings on the sides and then the tubes for feathers hid behind them. That is, if the Greeks had only one comb on the helmet and that was all, then the Etruscans should have two more feathers on the exact same helmet. Sometimes there were five tubes, and they were located across the helmet. They also used Montefortin type helmets, but later.


Roman scaled armor. Royal Ontario Museum. Canada.

Judging by the images on the frescoes, the Samnites had good cavalry and many horsemen. Peter Connolly even claims that they had the best cavalry among the Italic peoples. In this case, the horses in the frescoes, we see the bronze bibs and shoulders, that is, their horses were at least somehow protected. These details of horse equipment were found by archaeologists and they are exactly the same as in the pictures. Interestingly, the riders are armed just like the infantry, that is, there is no difference between them.


Illyrian helmet. Metropolitan Museum, New York.

It is known that between Rome and Samney there were three wars in the period from 326 to 291 BC. e., and in one of the battles the Samnites did not just win, but managed to capture a significant part of the Roman army and forced all the prisoners to pass under the yoke - “the gates of three copies connected by the letter P, which was a terrible disgrace according to the concepts of that time. But in the end, the Romans still defeated the Samnites, retaining, however, as a reminder of their military prowess, the Samnite gladiators. The equipping of the Samnite gladiators was a large traditional rectangular shield-scutum, a helmet decorated with feathers, a short sword, and perhaps a chased leash (a tribute to history!) On his left foot.
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  1. Mangel olys
    Mangel olys 22 January 2016 07: 09
    15
    An interesting, informative article with many illustrative examples. Also, the author is not without a sense of humor. Comments on photographs with amphorae are an example of this. In the morning I received a dose of positive. laughing Thank you!
    1. Megatron
      Megatron 22 January 2016 10: 38
      +9
      I think gomosyatina was clearly superfluous in the subject.
      1. otto meer
        otto meer 22 January 2016 13: 34
        +4
        Quote: Megatron
        I think gomosyatina was clearly superfluous in the subject.
        And these characters, why without the underside am , do not order it, sparkle naked! smile
      2. guzik007
        guzik007 22 January 2016 20: 08
        +6
        I think gomosyatina was clearly superfluous in the subject.
        -------------------------------------------
        She was an integral part of the Roman, and indeed all the armies of the Mediterranean of that period.
    2. ver_
      ver_ 23 January 2016 04: 23
      -12 qualifying.
      ... didn’t even read - one complete IDIOTISM .. - NEVER EXISTED A GREAT ROME .. Rome - a small military fortification on the road of the Empire .. Alexander the Great = Alexander Nevsky ..., Gaius Julius Caesar = Yuri-George Dolgoruky .. All countries wrote off their stories from Russia ... The Ukrainians have now wrapped it - why the hell is it ... and so on ...
      1. kalibr
        23 January 2016 08: 07
        +2
        And the Coliseum was built by Ivan Kalita!
      2. kalibr
        23 January 2016 16: 12
        0
        Talked with one psychiatrist. It turns out there is a kind of mental disorder when a person perceives two events as one. Well ... that’s it!
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. Molot1979
        Molot1979 11 October 2016 07: 14
        0
        Austria and Australia are the same thing, and the two Bush people who fought with Iraq are actually the same person, with his last name being Putin.
    3. gladcu2
      gladcu2 23 January 2016 22: 02
      0
      Mengel

      The identity marveled at the author's style at the expense of eroticism.

      Then he looked at the chariot and did not see the chariot. Angry photographer took a suspicious.

      Or maybe I reviewed porn.

      Well, jokes ...
  2. parusnik
    parusnik 22 January 2016 08: 02
    +3
    Rome is a “simulating state” that has successfully borrowed and developed the achievements of other peoples.. And skillfully ... Thank you, Vyacheslav once again pleased ..
  3. bionik
    bionik 22 January 2016 09: 05
    +3
    In the 7th photo (picture) Warriors are samnites. One has a swastika on the shield and tunic.The swastika is one of the most ancient and widespread graphic symbols, which was depicted by many peoples of the world on everyday objects, clothes, coins, vases, weapons, banners and emblems, when decorating churches and houses. The swastika, as a symbol, has many meanings, among the ancient peoples it was a symbol of movement, life, the sun, light, prosperity. In the XNUMXth century, the swastika became known as a symbol of Nazism in Nazi Germany, and became associated with the Hitler regime and ideology.
    1. kalibr
      22 January 2016 09: 21
      +2
      Today, the swastika is depicted on the largest Buddha statue in China (on the chest), the size is 20 m. And the statue itself - wow!
    2. Glot
      Glot 22 January 2016 13: 57
      0
      In the 7th photo (picture) Warriors are samnites. One has a swastika on the shield and tunic. The swastika is one of the most ancient and widespread graphic symbols, which was depicted by many peoples of the world on everyday objects, clothes, coins, vases, weapons, banners and coats of arms, in the design of churches and houses. The swastika, as a symbol, has many meanings, among the ancient peoples it was a symbol of movement, life, the sun, light, prosperity. In the XNUMXth century, the swastika became known as a symbol of Nazism in Nazi Germany, and became associated with the Hitler regime and ideology.


      Thanks, Cap. smile
      1. Rivares
        Rivares 22 January 2016 21: 08
        +4
        also an interesting ornament
    3. The comment was deleted.
  4. Darwin
    Darwin 22 January 2016 09: 14
    +1
    The article is interesting but it strikes one that in the previously published articles one detail, most of the exhibits are in the territory of the SGA paradox if anyone else noticed
    1. kalibr
      22 January 2016 09: 23
      +2
      USA - probably you wanted to write?
    2. Walking
      Walking 22 January 2016 10: 54
      +2
      Quote: Darwin
      The article is interesting but it strikes one that in the previously published articles one detail, most of the exhibits are in the territory of the SGA paradox if anyone else noticed


      probably wanted to write in the United States. Well, everything is simple here, money, money, and again money. They cannot particularly boast of their history, so they have bought rarities from all over the world.
      1. Limon1972
        Limon1972 22 January 2016 12: 41
        +2
        IMHO, they didn’t buy it, but they took it out during the occupation!
        1. kalibr
          22 January 2016 12: 50
          0
          No, many items were donated to the museum and indicated when. And many entered it in the 1935 year! What is the occupation?
        2. Glot
          Glot 22 January 2016 14: 00
          +2
          Just before the 30s of the last century, and in the 19th century, the same who carried out the most excavations around the World, in Africa, Asia Minor, the East - Europeans and Americans. That's all exported. How many were exported from one territory of Turkey!
          1. kalibr
            22 January 2016 17: 41
            +3
            The Germans won the Pergamon Altar and the Ishtar Gate ... and nothing! And well done, by the way. And it would be like with Palmyra!
            1. Glot
              Glot 22 January 2016 18: 29
              +1
              And it would be like with Palmyra!


              Yes, Palmyra really was very sorry ....
    3. Alexy
      Alexy 22 January 2016 21: 14
      0
      s they are s
  5. Mantykora
    Mantykora 22 January 2016 09: 18
    +2
    By the way, pay attention to the swastika on the shield of the Samnite warrior. From a symbol of good luck and goodness for several thousand years to an absolutely opposite meaning in our days after the use by the Nazis in the 20 century. And the prohibitions on symbolism - although it is asked, are the symbols to blame for being used by bad people?
    1. Mr. Pip
      Mr. Pip 22 January 2016 09: 43
      +4
      Quote: Mantykora
      And the prohibitions on symbolism - although it is asked, are the symbols to blame for being used by bad people?

      Oh, are you worried about "discrediting" the swastika? Yes, the Third Reich is the only reason why 99% of those who know her know her - and it is the "reenactors" of Nazism who love her and experience that the "symbol of good" is prohibited - and in parallel to her, one of thousands of other symbols that do not mean anything in real life ...
    2. venaya
      venaya 22 January 2016 11: 17
      +5
      Quote: Mantykora
      ... to the exact opposite nowadays after being used by the Nazis in the 20th century. And the prohibitions on symbolism ...

      At first, our original Russian swastika began to be used by the liberals-Februaryists in the 17th year, which was reflected even on their banknotes "kerenki", one or even two swastikas, depending on the denomination of the banknote, this money was used here before the introduction of chervonets ... The swastika remained on the chevrons of the Red Army men until 1923. After Russia, the swastika was introduced in Italy by the fascist B. Musolini in 1918 as a symbol of the fascist party. In Germany, A. Hitler accepted the already Nazi party of the NSRPD as a party symbol only in 1919, that is, clearly not the first. In general, this symbol of the sun is found everywhere, in all parts of our planet, so it is clearly not of Nazi origin, it’s just that our and not our media work, that everywhere and everything will be thoroughly confused, completely obscured.
      1. Glot
        Glot 22 January 2016 14: 03
        +1
        At first, our original Russian swastika


        Yeah ... right here "our" yes. laughing
        This symbol was used long before us all over the world, from Africa to India.
        1. venaya
          venaya 22 January 2016 18: 45
          -1
          Quote: Glot
          This symbol was used long before us all over the world, from Africa to India.

          In India itself, about 100 million ethnic Russians still live, most likely who arrived there 3500 years ago and brought there, including the northern culture, which degenerates into the basic religious concept of the "Russian Vedas". Did you know anything about this, or are you fooling? As for Africa, the pyramids were built by white people, in Egypt, in the territory of modern China, and possibly even in America. You don't know anything about that either. The oldest symbols of both the cross and the swastika are found in layers that are millions of years old, and in all parts of the world. This is unfamiliar to you or simply not interesting. So it is better to raise your intellectual level in this area, it will be very useful in the future.
          1. Glot
            Glot 22 January 2016 20: 33
            0

            In India itself, about 100 million ethnic Russians still live, most likely who arrived there 3500 years ago and brought there, including the northern culture, which degenerates into the basic religious concept of the "Russian Vedas". Did you know anything about this, or are you fooling? As for Africa, the pyramids were built by white people, in Egypt, in the territory of modern China, and possibly even in America. You don't know anything about that either. The oldest symbols of both the cross and the swastika are found in layers millions of years old, and in all parts of the globe.


            A lot of loud but empty words. Empty, because without confirmation by evidence.
            I would especially like to see documented evidence highlighted.
            AND ? Or again merge into empty words? Trepach. laughing
            1. kalibr
              22 January 2016 22: 24
              0
              In Penza, in 1937, they found a swastika on a portrait in the hair of Lermontov or Pushkin on the cover of school notebooks (in this case, it doesn't matter who, in the Trudovaya Pravda newspaper, I came across it) and the authors of the "provocation" were imprisoned. So, if you wish and fancy, you can always find everything!
          2. Razvedka_Boem
            Razvedka_Boem 22 January 2016 21: 37
            +3
            Give sources. And then broadcast as if an eyewitness. But being rude to strangers is not good.
            1. Cat man null
              Cat man null 22 January 2016 21: 50
              +1
              Quote: Razvedka_Boem
              Give sources. And then broadcast as if an eyewitness

              Colleagues, stop feeding the troll. Wenyaua is a well-known character, he himself butted him at one time, then he got tired of it simply. He also has a couple of Sweles - the same plan.

              Little knowledge, aplomb a lot, plus verbal incontinence.

              Best regards hi
          3. Fat
            Fat 23 January 2016 07: 24
            +1
            You seem to have "re-read" Romanov or Nikitin ... The cycle "Three from the Forest" is wonderful reading, but you cannot take it seriously.
          4. Zulu.S
            Zulu.S 24 January 2016 18: 52
            0
            Enlighten please, how many millions of years? Before Australopithecus or still a little later?
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Razvedka_Boem
        Razvedka_Boem 22 January 2016 21: 35
        +1
        This symbol was used by many nations, and thousands of years before our era.
  6. surrozh
    surrozh 22 January 2016 09: 21
    +1
    Judging by the photo of the vases, the author sensed spring. And so informative, interesting.
  7. Mr. Pip
    Mr. Pip 22 January 2016 09: 46
    +3
    Vases are scary, such a visit on the head if something to get is not only painful but also offensive once in two laughing
    It reminded me of a scene from "A Clockwork Orange" laughing
  8. kumaxa
    kumaxa 22 January 2016 10: 08
    +1
    yeah! homosexuality came to Rome and Western civilization quite a while ago! and the Romans of all of them allies of the Samnites and Italics is that. the current of infection has sprouted. then and now after time. although Rome is a village on one of the hills in the middle of the swamps.
  9. venaya
    venaya 22 January 2016 11: 51
    +2
    But while Rome has not yet gained strength, many other peoples lived next to it in Italy. For example, there the civilization of the Etruscans developed, which had a great influence on it, moreover, Rome itself was under their rule.

    Stunned !!! And in every sense! The city of Rome itself was founded by the Etruscans, and the original spelling of this city in the Etruscan language and the alphabet used by them, very close to ours, remained only in Russian, in Latin, in Latin letters it looks and sounds differently - "Roma", and the territory of the Apennine the peninsula was named Italy only in the XNUMXth century, there are obvious inaccuracies in the text. What is it for?
    1. Glot
      Glot 22 January 2016 14: 08
      +1
      Stunned !!! And in every sense! The city of Rome itself was founded by the Etruscans, and the original spelling of this city in the Etruscan language and the alphabet used by them, very close to ours, remained only in Russian, in Latin, in Latin letters it looks and sounds differently - "Roma", and the territory of the Apennine the peninsula was named Italy only in the XNUMXth century, there are obvious inaccuracies in the text. What is it for?


      Oh, let's bend your favorite topic that de Etruscan is Russian and other crap. laughing Stunned now. laughing laughing
      1. venaya
        venaya 22 January 2016 18: 19
        0
        Quote: Glot
        ... de Etruscan is Russian and other crap. Stunned now.

        Do you have any doubts? Are you able to justify them here at least?
        Evidence that Erutrea is one of the distant parts of Russian culture, language, written language, and even it’s very likely that the ethnic group, too, no one wants to justify the opposite opinion for some reason, they simply affirm in the style of the now very popular method from the category of NLP and all. You should at least change your flag, otherwise you should go under the flag of the Russian Federation, while having hated everything Russian or just something connected with Russia, it’s a mess.
        1. Glot
          Glot 22 January 2016 18: 45
          0
          Do you have any doubts? Are you able to justify them here at least?
          Evidence that Erutrea is one of the distant parts of Russian culture, language, written language, and even it’s very likely that the ethnic group, too, no one wants to justify the opposite opinion for some reason, they simply affirm in the style of the now very popular method from the category of NLP and all. You should at least change your flag, otherwise you should go under the flag of the Russian Federation, while having hated everything Russian or just something connected with Russia, it’s a mess.


          Well, firstly, neither the language nor the culture (what is known about it) of the Etruscans has anything to do with Russian culture and the Russian language. It is enough to look at what is left of the Etruscans at least in the article under discussion, and it will be obvious to anyone with MOSX that this is not our past and not our culture.
          Or are you able to prove visible and direct connections? As you say "their sea", so bring at least a "small lake".
          I doubt it.
          Although, as usual, you can now play the game of words, turning them backwards. laughing I remember, I remember your opuses like "ROME-WORLD" and so on. Well, one more time "hit" everyone. laughing laughing
          Secondly, a highly respected ignoramus, do not blame me for hating everything that is connected with Russia.
          Since this, too, you have no evidence. And you are just corny trying to translate everything on the rails of a certain "national idea", imaginary "pride in the past," but you are trying to bind an absolutely alien and alien past to the already rich, although not so long history of Russia. But this is definitely a mess.
          And I have the correct flag, the most that neither is. When my country lived under this flag, there were no such ignoramuses and fools like you, and in close proximity to History. Since I had to answer for the words.
          Such are the things, my half-educated "friend". laughing

          PS We are waiting for evidence of the identity of the Etruscans and Russia. But no, besides the dropout you will be yap. smile
          1. venaya
            venaya 22 January 2016 19: 52
            -1
            Quote: Glot
            deeply respected ignoramus, do not blame me ... such ignoramus and fools like you, and in close proximity to History was not... Since I had to answer for the words. Such is the case, my half-learned "friend"

            Yeah .... A familiar, even very, manner of communication, hatred and rushing, apparently its index rolls over. Let me remind you a little, when my country "walked" under this flag in 1848, your gang, under the pretext of religious intolerance, prohibited Emperor Nicholas I from publishing a book on the study of E. Klassen, a recognized scientist and the most literate person of the Russian Empire, " russ ". If you really consider yourself literate even a little, then at least without reading the book itself, look at the pictures of samples of Etruscan writing on their cameos and mirrors, by the way, stored in the Berlin Museum. So this writing existed even before the creation of the Latin form of writing, therefore it is easily read today by people familiar even only with modern Russian writing, and without problems, even for children. Your personal illiteracy in this matter amazes the imagination, about the analogy of the words "Rome - Peace (society)", so this is not my personal invention, but a study of the relevant narrow specialists already well known in modern historical science. The Latin name of the city of Roma appeared much later, after the capture of Rome itself by the savages by the Latins, and after the creation of the Latin alphabet, which was clearly limited in its capabilities, (only 25 letters). So if you are so pleased, then continue to boast of your wildness and incomplete knowledge in this area of ​​scientific research. And now how about "nothing in common" - it burns your eyes?
            1. Glot
              Glot 22 January 2016 20: 40
              0
              And now how about "nothing in common" - it burns your eyes?


              So I didn’t see the truth, just like the evidence.
              Well, at least a couple of crisp and clear photos of samples of Etruscan writing on cameos and mirrors ... I would see if I could easily read them. And so on ...
              And so, again, words about nothing. Some gangs that did not allow a certain book to be published, and again the words about "a study of the relevant narrow specialists, already well known in modern historical science." ... Words, empty words ...
              So continue to boast of supposedly some kind of sacred knowledge, which "are known to everyone, but no one has seen them" and flutter your tongue further.
              Ignoramus and now also yap for words that do not answer, here are your names. yes
              1. venaya
                venaya 22 January 2016 20: 54
                0
                "Ignoramus and now also yap for words that do not answer"- Why, you can't go through the link, you are our stupid, I only write in text, pictures for everyone can be easily seen from the link, is it really not clear. It's a difficult case.
                1. Glot
                  Glot 22 January 2016 21: 08
                  0
                  Che, you can’t follow the link, you’re our idiot, I’m only writing in text, pictures for everyone are easy to see by the link, is it really not clear. Hard case.


                  Oh, oh, we’ve already pointed out ... laughing Sprinkle seeds? laughing
                  What are the links of balabol? For what ? Where?
                  Enough already to merge then? Can't answer - keep quiet. "Etruscologist" is homegrown. laughing
                  Well, NO WORDS on the case, evidently, only water. laughing
              2. kalibr
                22 January 2016 21: 04
                +1
                You know, it's like with Hyperborea ... How many wrote that "we are from there." In the North, it ... I found a map, somehow I will give it here, where the supposed places of Hyperborea are highlighted. Great ... why not? But here's the problem, the entire North of Russia is filled with the Finno-Ugric haplogroup! Well, at least where there is a speck of R1a. If only a narrow strip ... where they went from there and would break the "Finnish strip". There's no such thing! That is, either they were all homosexuals there, but then it is not clear where they came from, or they were not there! Because the people cannot move from their homes without "inheriting". But people "zeal", prove: there was, beloved, was! This is something akin to faith in Him! Well, you want it that way, so people believe.
              3. The comment was deleted.
            2. kalibr
              22 January 2016 20: 54
              0
              So there is no word Rome! There is Roma! There is no evidence that the name Rome is older than Roma. And Rome, no savages, the Latins did not capture. This was the territory of Etruria, and the kings ruled there from there. And as for the narrow specialists ... So narrow that no one knows them?
              1. venaya
                venaya 22 January 2016 21: 19
                -1
                "So there is no word Rome! There is Roma! There is no evidence that the name Rome is older than Roma."- The word Roma could appear only after the creation of Latin writing (400 BC), before that Etruscan writing forms were used, on a very clear inscription Rome, close to the modern form of Russian writing. By the way, a similar form of writing was used in the" Culture of Vinca " (18 km from Belgrade), this is part of the "Trypillian culture", it is also easy to read in Russian, and it was investigated by Serbian scientists, the professor's surname must be looked for. so that the word Rome, used in Russian, can be considered autochonic, and the word Roma is already a Latin distortion.
                1. kalibr
                  22 January 2016 22: 30
                  0
                  Here are the books, look. These were not homegrown etruscologists who wrote, but rather well-known people, authors of many studies. About the Etruscan alphabet on the English site is also there and everything is very detailed.
                  1. Helmut Rix, "Etruscan," in The Ancient Languages ​​of Europe, ed. Roger D. Woodard (Cambridge University Press, 2008), pp. 141-164.
                  2.Sandars, NK (1987). The Sea Peoples: Warriors of the ancient Mediterranean, Revised Edition. London: Thames and Hudson. ISBN 0-500-27387-1.
                  3. Helmut Rix, "Etruscan," in The Ancient Languages ​​of Europe, ed. Roger D. Woodard (Cambridge University Press, 2008), pp. 141-164.
                  4.David George, 'Technology, Ideology, Warfare and the Etruscans Before the Roman Conquest' in Jean MacIntosh Turfa (ed.) The Etruscan World (London & New York 2013), 738-746

                  5.Lee L. Brice Warfare in the Roman Republic: From the Etruscan Wars to the Battle of Actium | ABC-CLIO, 2014

                  The latter is especially interesting. There are many references to primary sources and artifacts.
                  1. Rivares
                    Rivares 23 January 2016 17: 39
                    +2
                    Quote: kalibr
                    1. Helmut Rix, "Etruscan," in The Ancient Languages ​​of Europe, ed. Roger D. Woodard (Cambridge University Press, 2008), pp. 141-164.
                    2.Sandars, NK (1987). The Sea Peoples: Warriors of the ancient Mediterranean, Revised Edition. London: Thames and Hudson. ISBN 0-500-27387-1.
                    3. Helmut Rix, "Etruscan," in The Ancient Languages ​​of Europe, ed. Roger D. Woodard (Cambridge University Press, 2008), pp. 141-164.
                    4.David George, 'Technology, Ideology, Warfare and the Etruscans Before the Roman Conquest' in Jean MacIntosh Turfa (ed.) The Etruscan World (London & New York 2013), 738-746

                    5.Lee L. Brice Warfare in the Roman Republic: From the Etruscan Wars to the Battle of Actium | ABC-CLIO, 2014

                    1 and 3 link are duplicated) 5 link generally from the category of popular books (not scientific) I did not find in the public domain. As you know, it’s not cultural in the Russian discussion to refer to sources that are incomprehensible to the majority (as well as artistic ones). I can beat you and lead to refutation of your list of references heels of links .... in Chinese!
                    1. kalibr
                      24 January 2016 08: 58
                      0
                      What they are rich about is what they are happy about. And it's not my fault that you didn't find it. The University of Cambridge does not print art books. Have you read my material about "Sea Peoples" here? It's from there. And a lot of other things "from there" and this is modern science. And that the same thing slipped, well, it happens, It was not a crime. 5 book ... but not scientific. But the degree of "their" popularity is sometimes comparable to our scientific works. I once wrote here about the conditions for publications in Osprey ... They pay well for books. So why are there so few of our authors? And one of the reasons is very high requirements!
                  2. Villon
                    Villon 24 January 2016 00: 51
                    +1
                    Quote: kalibr

                    Here are the books, take a look. 1. Helmut Rix, "Etruscan," in The Ancient Languages ​​of Europe, ed. Roger D. Woodard (Cambridge University Press, 2008), pp. 141-164.
                    2.Sandars, NK (1987). The Sea Peoples: Warriors of the ancient Mediterranean, Revised Edition. London: Thames and Hudson. ISBN 0-500-27387-1.
                    3. Helmut Rix, "Etruscan," in The Ancient Languages ​​of Europe, ed. Roger D. Woodard (Cambridge University Press, 2008), pp. 141-164.
                    4.David George, 'Technology, Ideology, Warfare and the Etruscans Before the Roman Conquest' in Jean MacIntosh Turfa (ed.) The Etruscan World (London & New York 2013), 738-746
                    5.Lee L. Brice Warfare in the Roman Republic: From the Etruscan Wars to the Battle of Actium | ABC-CLIO, 2014


                    1. It costs $ 35, or 2 rubles at the current rate
                    2. 21 $, at the current exchange rate of 1 rubles.
                    3. Matches book number 1.
                    4. Unfortunately, I did not find it at all, even in amazon.ru
                    5. It costs $ 58 or 4 at the current rate

                    Dear kalibr, tell me, are you not connected with the book-trading business? Could you still discard the information that you consider necessary to read in an accessible form? At least in PM.

                    Quote: kalibr
                    About the Etruscan alphabet on the English site is also there and everything is very detailed.

                    Maybe give a link to this "English site"?
                    1. kalibr
                      24 January 2016 09: 04
                      +1
                      I'm not connected with the book business except that I write them myself. About the link to the English site. Honestly - I don't remember. I usually do this - and you can do so - I type the topic I need in a search engine and everything always "crawls out" to me. You read and take something for yourself. Some of the books for temptation are laid out for viewing ... pages 10. Sometimes this is enough. Sometimes there is a whole book. There are books on university websites. That is, type, watch and read. And I usually don't bookmark, so the whole computer is clogged. It is necessary - easier to find again. Or replace with something. I'll take a look at the available books.
        2. kalibr
          22 January 2016 18: 48
          +1
          Just the opposite is the proof of the sea, but only you do not know about them. Everything has been substantiated for a long time, and Etrussianness is just a fashion brand, they write about, repeat and, according to Lasswell’s law on the dissemination of information, what they don’t write about, it seems to disappear. But this does not mean that this is not! That's all. And the cult of the dead and the funeral culture, and religion - everything is very different. And related cultures do not.
          1. venaya
            venaya 22 January 2016 20: 47
            0
            Quote: kalibr
            ... the cult of the dead and the funeral culture, and religion - everything is very different. And related cultures do not.

            Thanks for your post, did not expect this question to interest you either.
            We have already discussed this issue here on this site, and with you. Questions of the cult of the dead and burial culture, as well as, in this regard, religious characteristics - all these are superficial functions related to the preservation of the necessary number of the tribe. Just yesterday I read the original of the funeral speech of the Swedish king Charles XI, the father of the well-known king Charles XII, though already written in Latin, but in the purest Russian language. The author of the article assures that throughout the territory of modern Europe, exclusively Russian was used everywhere. The introduction of the Latin alphabet and the subsequent persecution of the Russian language itself, which is autohonous for Europe, led to the emergence in the 40th century of today's plurality and variety of "European" languages. Unfortunately, your article on genetic research does not include data on the remains in the Kostenok area, while prof. Gerasimov then clearly proved that people similar to today's inhabitants of these places lived on the territory of the Volga region 000 years ago. Similar images on Etruscan mirrors were published and their images also correspond to the inhabitants of the Volga region, as well as even the Ryazan region. Unfortunately, the publications of Western authors are too tendentious and do not cause the necessary trust, in this regard, let us recall, for example, V. Suvorov's books, everywhere shameless insolent propaganda, which is a pity.
            1. kalibr
              22 January 2016 21: 14
              0
              quote = venaya] Unfortunately, the publications of Western authors are too tendentious and do not cause the necessary trust in this regard, let’s recall, for example, the book of V. Suvorov, shameless impudent propaganda everywhere, a pity. [/ quote]

              Sorry, but have you read a lot of books by Western authors? Suvorov is not a Western author! And he did not write about the Etruscans! I have already written here too many times that Westerners, I speak of British historians, can be blamed in many ways, but not for the tendentious coverage of our history! Read the books of D.Nikol about the military affairs of Russia, about the battle on Lake Peipsi ... There are versions, but not verdicts! Also with the Etruscans. And just religion for that time is the most important indicator of culture. There are coincidences - there is a relationship. No no! According to the Etruscans and Slavs, the difference is huge. A completely different funeral cult. Therefore, everything. Everything! Stop fussing at Coke bast!
            2. kalibr
              23 January 2016 09: 03
              0
              Do haplogroup studies confirm this?
          2. Glot
            Glot 22 January 2016 20: 51
            0
            Just the opposite is the proof of the sea, but only you do not know about them. Everything has been substantiated for a long time, and Etrussianness is just a fashion brand, they write about, repeat and, according to Lasswell’s law on the dissemination of information, what they don’t write about, it seems to disappear. But this does not mean that this is not! That's all. And the cult of the dead and the funeral culture, and religion - everything is very different. And related cultures do not.


            Vyacheslav, he's stupid. It is impossible to prove anything to him in principle. He had read pseudoscientific-popular literature written by journalists, bloggers, writers, and it is generally unclear by whom and with what and on what basis, and therefore, alas, he will not hear it. Since I understand serious historical literature, he in principle, if he tried to read real research, either did not understand, or was simply not interesting. Boring. And here ... And on the Apennines - Russians, and in Africa and in America, China, and throughout the earth and underground - Russian swastikas (about this he wrote above laughing ), and the words can be distorted, reading something "new, sacred" to see it back and forth ... Well WHAT ARE THE PROSPECTS THAT ??? !!! Captures the spirit! And most importantly - not boring, simple and affordable. laughing
            So no, you can't convince him. BUT thank God there are not many of them. You look, nevertheless, we will get better with education, TV, print and scribblers will be watched, and the like will die themselves "venaya s". laughing Well, at least I hope so. The tipping period will pass, and the likes of it will disappear as it was not.
            1. Rivares
              Rivares 22 January 2016 21: 24
              -1
              Quote: Glot
              Vyacheslav, he is stupid

              Funny Glot, from venaya I saw the information, it is easy to check, and from you flows of emptiness based on something incomprehensible. What is your historical position? If on a school textbook, from what year? (Unfortunately, different textbooks have a different story) Why don't you criticize, for example, the funeral speech of the same King Charles XI? Haven't you read it? And E. Klassen "The Ancient History of the Slavs and Slavic-Russ" also did not read but criticize?
              As long as stupidity comes from you.
              1. Glot
                Glot 22 January 2016 21: 43
                0
                It’s funny Glot, from venaya I saw the information, it’s easy to check, but from you flows of emptiness based on it is not clear what.


                Check where, for those like him? laughing
                I’ll tell you now, once, I won’t.
                So you carefully read the article? If yes, then:
                - Have you seen the ceramics in the photo? Did we have something similar in Russia if the Etruscans are Russian? And exactly like gladiatorial battles, chariot races, and indeed similar chariots and so on and so forth?
                Compare, you don’t have to go far ...

                What is your historical position yourself?


                At SCIENTIFIC, confirmed by scientific disciplines, of which there are many, from archeology to philology.
                If it tells you something in principle.

                Why do not you criticize, for example, the funerary speech of the same King Charles XI?


                And what is there to criticize?
                What does she prove that everyone in Europe spoke Russian? Why ?
                Well, the Swedish ceremonial master wrote it in Latin letters in Russian reading, so what? Yes, absolutely nothing. It was written for the Russian-speaking population of the territory under the rule of the Swedes, so that it would be more convenient to read it out that's all. And there is no sensation there.

                And E. Klassen "The Ancient History of the Slavs and Slavic-Russ" also did not read but criticize?


                Show me where I criticized this book here?
                I didn’t even read it, and I’m not going to. So, if you’re already trying to convict yourself of something, somehow do it reasonably. And that stupidly comes out.

                Did I answer your questions?
                Actually this is not important. Since it’s boring already, the same blizzard is about nothing.
                1. kalibr
                  22 January 2016 22: 40
                  0
                  After all these disputes over the Russian Etruscans began, I quickly looked to see what was “there” about it - the sites of museums, the same alphabet and so on. Found a couple of very interesting museums of Etruscan antiquities, admired the paintings of the tombs ... Well, there is nothing to do with the Slavs. Tomorrow I'll write to the director of one of these museums, ask them to share photos. Then I will write in detail what turned out to be. Somehow it never occurred to me ... I read Mommsen's "History of Rome", Connolly the same ... Sanders about the peoples of the sea. Enough! But it turns out that not everything is clear and understandable here either. From millions of years we have been with the swastika, and the Etruscans have lived in Italy and in our forests. They altered the chlamyds in their shirts (that's why they are long!) They put on their trousers and became Russified!
                2. Rivares
                  Rivares 23 January 2016 02: 32
                  +2
                  Quote: Glot
                  - Have you seen the ceramics in the photo? Did we have something similar in Russia if the Etruscans are Russian? And exactly like gladiatorial battles, chariot races, and indeed similar chariots and so on and so forth?

                  Did not have. As I know. But as I understand it, a little more is being said. The fact that the ancestors of modern Russians could be the same as that of the Etruscans.
                  Quote: Glot
                  At SCIENTIFIC, confirmed by scientific disciplines, of which there are many, from archeology to philology.
                  If it tells you something in principle.

                  He speaks. So the maps presented by the Russian Geographical Society recognize, right?

                  Quote: Glot
                  Well, the Swedish ceremonial master wrote it in Latin letters in Russian reading, so what? Yes, absolutely nothing. It was written for the Russian-speaking population of the territory under the rule of the Swedes, so that it would be more convenient to read it out that's all. And there is no sensation there.

                  And you can give similar examples from your richest knowledge of history, so that for Russians, for example, they would write the text in English letters))) As far as I know, no one was perverted. It was more convenient to make 2 copies in different languages, don’t you?
                  Quote: Glot
                  I didn’t even read it, and I’m not going to. So, if you’re already trying to convict yourself of something, somehow do it reasonably. And that stupidly comes out.

                  And then what to blame if you just do not know. Conversations will not work)
                  1. Glot
                    Glot 23 January 2016 07: 37
                    0
                    Here, and I say, boring with people like you ...
                    Oh well, I’ll answer for the last time in the subject. And you can immediately run minus set, as usual. laughing
                    So ...

                    Did not have. As I know. But as I understand it, a little more is being said. The fact that the ancestors of modern Russians could be the same as that of the Etruscans.


                    Read opponents more carefully, and in general comments are necessary. The one that venaya called directly says that the Etruscans are Russian.
                    Next, I think it’s not worth continuing, right?

                    So the maps presented by the Russian Geographical Society recognize, right?


                    Cards? And here someone brought some cards?
                    Again: Read the comments carefully, if we are trying to answer something. laughing

                    And you can give similar examples from your richest knowledge of history, so that for Russians, for example, they would write the text in English letters))) As far as I know, no one was perverted. It was more convenient to make 2 copies in different languages, don’t you?


                    And what do you personally draw from this conclusion? What does this person say (see above) did all of Europe speak Russian? Then why bother with this garden? Write it in Russian without Latin. No ? You yourself are confused. laughing

                    And then what to blame if you just do not know.


                    Again: Read carefully!
                    You accused me of criticizing that book, I asked you to indicate exactly where I criticized it. That's all. And I was not going to discuss anything.


                    In general, everything is clear with you. Banal stupid troll and no more. laughing
                    That's all.
                    1. Rivares
                      Rivares 23 January 2016 13: 09
                      +2
                      Quote: Glot
                      You accused me of criticizing that book, I asked you to indicate exactly where I criticized it

                      About how, nothing to say essentially began to pull words out of context and engage in verbiage. And did you study philology? And at the end and to insults, you roll down, for lack of facts or the ability to operate them. You mention that you studied archeology and philology, but you can’t explain the same Swedish language sanely, but they began to merge with your nose like they poked into your nonsense. Well, go pour a stopar, console yourself ...
                      By the way, Glot, are you a Jew?
    2. The comment was deleted.
  10. Selevc
    Selevc 22 January 2016 12: 33
    0
    Rome, Veii, Bovianum and other settlements on the Apennine peninsula of the time of the Samnite and Etruscan wars can hardly be called cities in the modern sense of the word - these are more like villages or villages ... Each tribe lived according to its own laws - between the tribes there has been a natural competition for territories for centuries and trade routes ... Latins with their Rome turned out to be the strongest in this centuries-old struggle ...
    The history of Ancient Rome is a vivid example of how a stronger system defeated weaker (though sometimes more developed than the Romans) peoples ... The Romans brought the system of government and the art of warfare to perfection ...
    The Romans considered the Greeks more intelligent, the Carthaginians better in trade, the Gauls more fearless in battle, but Rome had one unique plus - they studied with everyone and absorbed all the advantages of their competitor neighbors and swept away the flaws ... And over time, the students became stronger than teachers. ..
  11. Lanista
    Lanista 22 January 2016 12: 49
    +3
    Cheto did not understand - so why were triangular shells needed?
    1. kalibr
      22 January 2016 18: 49
      +1
      You are not alone! The entire campaign of European scientists studying this question has no answer. "Fashion", "tradition" is all they say, but that is not an explanation.
  12. AK64
    AK64 22 January 2016 14: 59
    0
    Error
    the Samnites spoke in the Oka dialect,

    all the same on oskom language.
    This is not just a rearrangement of letters: the language of Ok is the language of Okvitania, Languedoc, actually even Catalonia, and much more.

    The relationship between Oka and Osk (despite the presence of some similar elements) has not been established.
    1. Lanista
      Lanista 22 January 2016 19: 12
      0
      After reading this point in the article, I thought that it was about the dialect of the residents of Nizhny Novgorod and Kolomna. "Oka dialect" by analogy with "Volga dialect".
  13. Riv
    Riv 22 January 2016 16: 30
    +3
    It’s ridiculous for us, brethren, to walk along the old frescoes with sandpaper ...

    The very first illustration of the article. On the left are two foot soldiers with bare ahedrons, but in greaves. Leggings, which are characteristic, are paired. Below is a modern reconstruction, which also depicts Samnite infantry (sorry, inspired by homosexual vases). There are no paired leggings on any. Where is the historicity, I ask you? And why are barefoot warriors in the picture? Are the uncles tempered? Meanwhile, there is a photograph of the figurine below, on it, the soldier also has paired leggings and he, characteristic of Nichrome, is not barefoot, but in sandals.

    The same fresco shows a rider in practically the same armor and also with a bare ass. Bareback and blankets. Academics are not aware that horse sweat is pretty pungent. Whatever a Samnite has a hardened ass, you won't get far. The horse will sweat and the rider will have a slight pruritus between the legs. Apparently, the ancient artist was not a velma who was well versed in the affairs of cavalry ... Or at that time it was not customary to draw pants for some reason? The Romans called leather cavalry trousers that way: "marriages".

    Now let's move on to the triangular shells. It is not very useful for a foot soldier. The defense is clearly weak. But for the chariot - the very thing. Such armor does not interfere with throwing darts and shooting from a bow, and the bottom is already covered with shields on the chariot. By the way, the chariot is clearly designed for one. Controlling and simultaneously throwing something at the enemy is extremely difficult. Obviously its use on the battlefield as a mobile "firing point", but this also implies some protection for the horses. Are there any frescoes where she is depicted?

    In general, the decoration of the carapace in the illustrations is magnificent. This implies a high price, which confirms the version that they were worn by chariot fighters. Combat team is also not cheap. Actually, they are also suitable for a cavalryman, but not for contact combat, but rather for an equestrian archer.
    1. AK64
      AK64 22 January 2016 16: 50
      0
      Dear Riv, the chariot in the photo is most likely a sports or "executive class" chariot. Not combat
      1. Riv
        Riv 22 January 2016 17: 06
        0
        Hardly. Sports would be as light as possible, but here - shields of ten pounds each. Well, or five, if it's gilded boards, but I doubt the boards. Google images of Roman sports chariots. The wheels are small (on the arena the track is flat and large are not ergonomic), the fences on the site are knee-deep. Low pelvis pleases the eye, in short.

        That is, you can certainly use Samnitsky for racing, but ... It's like a tank biathlon. And for representation - combat is even better.
    2. AK64
      AK64 22 January 2016 16: 50
      +1
      Dear Riv, the chariot in the photo is most likely a sports or "executive class" chariot. Not combat
  14. cth; fyn
    cth; fyn 22 January 2016 17: 42
    +2
    Or maybe this is only part of the armor? For example, the fabric shell protects against cutting and cutting impacts, and the light bronze shell protects the ribs and internal organs from strong impacts in the most vulnerable part, thus providing very good protection against cold steel and from armor injuries such as broken ribs and contusions of internal organs .
    Such armor would be light, mobile and would provide a very high level of protection.
    1. kalibr
      22 January 2016 18: 51
      0
      There is a statuette from the Louvre, which clearly shows that under the shell of a shirt. There is also a figurine and murals, where the same can be seen ...
      1. cth; fyn
        cth; fyn 23 January 2016 06: 43
        0
        Maybe it's a statuette and a mural in non-war time? For example, fabric armor was not worn, but worn only copper with a beautiful finish to show off, and worn only before the battle. But this is only an assumption, sorry we do not have Delorian.
  15. Razvedka_Boem
    Razvedka_Boem 22 January 2016 18: 41
    0
    One thing was always surprising .. Here is the drawing, you need to draw in three projections .. Everything needs to be scrolled in the head .. And how are people with (let's say) 2D .. without 3D in the head .. look at these flat murals .. were able to build such a .. amazing.
    Py.Sy. Everything is possible, I said somewhat somewhat chaotically, spontaneously happened, sorry) But I think you understand me)
    1. kalibr
      22 January 2016 20: 46
      +1
      The father showed his son, he was his. There were no schools, there was no exam. People learned from each other since childhood and did not think of themselves outside of their father's profession. Therefore, they probably drew just intuitively. For example, from childhood I knew that I would be a candidate of sciences, because at home they only talked about it, who, how, where, what he wrote, "form number 6" ... So it was then ...
      1. Razvedka_Boem
        Razvedka_Boem 22 January 2016 21: 27
        +1
        I am theoretically familiar with the USE, for I graduated from the Soviet school. I understood your thought. But I was talking about something else. Without having, let us say so spatial view, build all these cities and temples. A person sees what he is shown from childhood. Perception .. Explain to the child that his brain is, say, in the heel .. and as an adult he will count and chopping off his legs will drive him crazy. Without volumetric thinking, development is impossible. The so-called Renaissance began with volumetric thinking, with three projections.
        1. Bashibuzuk
          Bashibuzuk 22 January 2016 21: 39
          +1
          No, no, countryman ....
          As for the Renaissance, I agree, because suddenly I discovered the properties of projections.
          But flat, two-dimensional drawings had their own characteristics, which literally prescribed their own particular features.
          The Egyptians have a head in profile, a body of three quarters, legs, up to the opposite.
          I won’t say it right now, I’ve read it for a long time.
          But I remembered these features.
          Something there was connected with the trance, inspired by the viewing of such paintings, by the priests.
          .
          And try to inspire a trance on "Black Square"?
          Or "Bathing the Red Horse"
          The roof will move, no?
          1. Razvedka_Boem
            Razvedka_Boem 22 January 2016 21: 53
            +1
            Black square ..) Please forgive me generously .. but this is complete nonsense! Reminds a fairy tale about the naked king. Also swimming a red horse. The roof, if it goes .. it’s only from the understanding that the classics are better)
            1. Bashibuzuk
              Bashibuzuk 22 January 2016 22: 09
              0
              And I'm talking about that.
              It is not given to us, brought up on stereometry, to understand the logic of planar beings.
              You live on the plain - the whole world is flat. Like damn it.
              .
              In this regard, for example, I understand the logic of Islam - not to portray the living.
              Because they are not flat.
              In a flat desert, only living things are like a gift of the Lord.
              But, for mountain people, people on the hills who initially saw the complexity of the world - to convey all this in a drawing ... indeed, a GIFT.
  16. Bashibuzuk
    Bashibuzuk 22 January 2016 19: 35
    +1
    Good post.
    Everything is so beautiful (except for real rarities) that it unwittingly casts ....
    The figure corresponds to the book. And, accordingly, to the finds.
    Here - ".. These details of horse equipment were found by archaeologists and they are exactly the same as in the drawings ..." - in my opinion, the time markers should be rearranged. Drawings were made based on the items found.
    .
    The first fresco, I look at the flag in the hands of the Samnite, I can not help feeling that it is some kind of Scottish clan.
    tormented ... tormented by vague doubts .... in time parameters.
    .
    And about the triangular shell - well, imagine how you can avoid the spear flying at you if you are standing on a chariot, narrow, say, or with high sides.
    You cannot step aside.
    to tilt sideways in a cylindrical cuirass is quite difficult, and there are problems with centering masses (gravity, not flexibility)
    And if there is nothing on the sides, there will not be any problems adding together.
    Spear and past.
    .
    Or my reasoning, tongue
    .
    Good stuff.
    1. kalibr
      22 January 2016 20: 43
      +1
      But the Samnites were not chariots! They were riders and that’s not all. Famous Italian cuirasses-bells with a bent hem, it is easier to ride. But Samnite cuirass ???
      1. Bashibuzuk
        Bashibuzuk 22 January 2016 21: 21
        +1
        So I didn’t understand something.
        He considered that the triangular shells were pure Etruscan.
        ..
        Although, who prevents the use of smart things as intended for any users?
        We are twisting the iPhone .... and the Altai system itself was, wow .... the Americans still licked their lips on our "cellular" mobile communication.
        So here ... the Romans of the current era again galloped ... Soviet-Samnites.
        .
        Flexibility. This design provides additional flexibility.
        Even in terms of games ..... like in vases.
        .
        .
        It was extremely encouraging - ".. I, for example, knew from childhood that I would be a candidate of sciences, ..."
        Cho dragged me to schools (including music) and the Olympics ..... there wouldn’t be immediately into the pipe with gas. Bubble up
        Right now, I would be Miller.
        .
        .
        And where, from whom can one read about the difference between funerary traditions between Russians and Etruscans?
        There is no such coincidence. In words.
        It doesn’t happen that the Etruscan shield represents an elongated triangle in plan, and the Russians (ancient_ = elongated oval triangle above).
        Very characteristic.
        E-Russians ..... et-Russian ..... ordinary French unbearable letter -.
        Who wrote the story?
        1. kalibr
          22 January 2016 22: 52
          +1
          Can I tell you something? On the history of Rome, I read Mommsen, then Roman historians - this is still at the institute in Soviet times. Then the British: Connolly, Sanders, Simkins ... Specially not interested in the Etruscans. By the way, on all statues of Etruscan soldiers have round shields! Found in English a study on the military affairs of the Etruscans. Found two museums of Etruscan culture. I looked at the funds - everything is in Italian. The lady of the director will have to write in English. ask for a photo and some information. And then I’ll translate it, I’ll make an article on the military affairs of the Etruscans. Found in English a large article about their writing. Examples, inscriptions. I read ... But I'm not a philologist or a linguist. I only understood that there was no smell of Russian there, although the Indo-European language is also our kindred in this. But all Indo-European languages ​​are related to each other!
          1. Bashibuzuk
            Bashibuzuk 22 January 2016 23: 00
            +1
            and I don’t think that the Russians are there as their own.
            Slavs.
            So they are everywhere .... including Andronovites, right?
            What is there to be surprised, Trieste is either Italians or Yugoslavs-Slavs ...
            in life would we be together.
            Slavs ... and those who strive to arrange dirty tricks on us.
            Oh, they .... dostanetsa .. good
  17. Bashibuzuk
    Bashibuzuk 22 January 2016 22: 23
    0
    And yet, evaluating the first vase .... I think that there is some other meaning.
    In addition to gamak fun.
    Why do both characters have their fingers wide apart?
    Why does the person on the left have the right hand as in a trap?
    Why is the phallus of a right-wing citizen clearly not in combat uniform, but looking at half past six?
    And he is clearly not directed to where the buggers would send him?
    The right hand, again, of the right is clearly on the character in front.
    This is not a stability test, huh?
    To the boys, for example.
    .
    Here, in my opinion, there is a certain contest, according to unknown rules, but the obligatory inclusion of phallic symbols ... either in reality or in reflection.
    .
    They, at that time, had nothing to do - compete, fight, and fuck.
    And what is it for us?
    And by the way, try to hold the fingers of ANY hand widely spread .... for at least a minute.
    That is another test.
    Does it arise ... I do not know.
    1. kalibr
      23 January 2016 08: 02
      0
      As for the fingers ... Greek ceramists emphasize that they were specially lengthened in order to get a more visible image on a curved surface. Regarding other things, I can't say anything. It was on this "vase" that I did not read anything.
  18. Pomeranian
    Pomeranian 23 January 2016 15: 28
    +1
    A good article, interestingly written and a pleasant reading language. The Samnites are one of the most persistent and worst enemies of Rome, a noble and selfless people. There are few examples in the history when peoples sacrificed everything to defeat the enemy. For example, the Samnites left their lands almost without protection, sending an army to help the Etruscans who were defeated after the defeat. The last major participation of the Samnites, as a tribal army, was during the war of Gaius Maria and Lucius Cornelius Sulla, where the backbone of the army of Mary was the allied forces, most of them Samnites.
  19. Villon
    Villon 23 January 2016 23: 56
    0
    Quote: kalibr
    Here are the books, take a look. 1. Helmut Rix, "Etruscan," in The Ancient Languages ​​of Europe, ed. Roger D. Woodard (Cambridge University Press, 2008), pp. 141-164.

    It costs $ 35, or 2 rubles at the current rate.
    Quote: kalibr

    2.Sandars, NK (1987). The Sea Peoples: Warriors of the ancient Mediterranean, Revised Edition. London: Thames and Hudson. ISBN 0-500-27387-1.

    $ 21, at the current exchange rate of 1 rubles.
    Quote: kalibr

    3. Helmut Rix, "Etruscan," in The Ancient Languages ​​of Europe, ed. Roger D. Woodard (Cambridge University Press, 2008), pp. 141-164.

    Matches book number 1.

    Quote: kalibr

    4.David George, 'Technology, Ideology, Warfare and the Etruscans Before the Roman Conquest' in Jean MacIntosh Turfa (ed.) The Etruscan World (London & New York 2013), 738-746

    Unfortunately, I did not find it at all, even in amazon.ru.

    Quote: kalibr

    5.Lee L. Brice Warfare in the Roman Republic: From the Etruscan Wars to the Battle of Actium | ABC-CLIO, 2014

    It costs $ 58 or 4 rubles at the current rate.

    Dear kalibr, tell me, are you not connected with the book-trading business? Could you still discard the information that you consider necessary to read in an accessible form? At least in PM.

    Quote: kalibr
    About the Etruscan alphabet on the English site is also there and everything is very detailed.

    Maybe give a link to this "English site"?
  20. t7310
    t7310 24 January 2016 12: 29
    +1
    Quote: Glot
    And now how about "nothing in common" - it burns your eyes?


    So I didn’t see the truth, just like the evidence.
    Well, at least a couple of crisp and clear photos of samples of Etruscan writing on cameos and mirrors ... I would see if I could easily read them. And so on ...
    And so, again, words about nothing. Some gangs that did not allow a certain book to be published, and again the words about "a study of the relevant narrow specialists, already well known in modern historical science." ... Words, empty words ...
    So continue to boast of supposedly some kind of sacred knowledge, which "are known to everyone, but no one has seen them" and flutter your tongue further.
    Ignoramus and now also yap for words that do not answer, here are your names. yes



    Well, then the opponent said what to dial in Google. but religion apparently doesn’t allow you to use Google. but vases, I suppose a fake
  21. Reptiloid
    Reptiloid 25 January 2016 19: 08
    0
    I read the article and the comments. I’m glad to see the article. I am satisfied with the scientific community. I love these books:
    Rhine Block. Etruscans. They predicted the future. Moscow. Center polygraph. 2004.
    Z. Mayani. In the footsteps of the Etruscans. "Veche". Moscow. 2003.
    Frank Collection. Ancient Rome. Moscow. Center polygraph. 2006.
    Etruscans: Italian love of life. Moscow. Terra --- Book Club. 1998
    World culture. Ancient Greece. Ancient Rome. Moscow. "Olma-press" 2000.
    A.B.Egorov; Julius Caesar; Political Biography. S-PB. 2014.
    Although I suppose that some of them can be called popular science. Regards.
  22. Warrior2015
    Warrior2015 16 February 2016 01: 03
    0
    Quote: Megatron
    I think gomosyatina was clearly superfluous in the subject.

    No, it is useful to read those who like to bring Russian from Etruscans (rasenov). Although there are a few problematic points in this, which modern official science cannot adequately answer.

    Quote: venaya
    Your article on genetic research unfortunately does not include data on the remains in the area of ​​Kostenok, and after all the prof. Gerasimov then clearly proved that people in the Volga region still 40 000 years ago lived people similar to today's inhabitants of these places.

    Kostenki is the south of the East European Plain. And Hyperborea is the extreme north, the region of the Kola Peninsula or even Yamal. But there is another thing, it could not be kept trite, no one was left, because the climate has changed a lot, and Finno-Ugric tribes and Paleoarcticians could come after.

    Quote: kalibr
    From millions of years, we have a swastika, and the Etruscans lived in Italy and in our forests. The chlamyds in their shirts were altered (because they are long!) They put on their pants and got Russified!

    Well, we will not refer to any populist nonsense, but ... The connection between Etruscans (rasenov) and Asia Minor Asia, with the area of ​​the modern Troas is genetically proven, which coincides with the data of ancient authors and with the fact that they were the best and most developed to the Carthaginians and Greeks fleet in the Western Mediterranean.

    But then their genetics (very weak and miserable, but there is) is found in France, and by the way in the extreme north-west (forced sea migrants are considered, possibly gone from the Romans and settled in Celtic = Gaul). And then - there are traces in England and oddly enough in Denmark ... Where from? unknown ... maybe the Celts didn’t get accustomed (the bloodthirsty guys were that!) or migrated when Yuri Caesarea opened the map of conquests ...

    Quote: kalibr
    By the way, on all the Etruscan statuettes of the soldiers the shields are round!

    Yes, but they were both oval and rectangular! By the way, the rectangular shield is considered either Roman or still a Samnite invention. But regarding plate breastplates ("triangular shells"), there are 2 more options:
    1. It was a mirror-type pad for linen shell of the Greek or Indian type because of its cheapness for those who could not afford to buy a bronze thorax, but was also a bit richer than the unsuccessful poor.

    2. This is banal due to the extreme shortage of metal + in order not to hamper the warrior's mobility in battle (apparently most of the Samnite infantry are of the type of velites, light dart throwers), but not phalangites or other "strands".