Military Review

Russian army does not know how to exploit tanks

248
Russian army does not know how to exploit tanks



This is not an unsubstantiated accusation, but facts proved in courts.

The reason for drawing attention to arbitration practice was a fresh article under the heading "Uralvagonzavod" lost to the Ministry of Defense a court because of a breakdown in the Taman Division tank under warranty "on the website of the Nizhny Tagil news portal" Between the Lines. "In short, it says that" Uralvagonzavod Corporation has supplied the military with the 188A1 T-90A Main Battle Tank under a 2007 contract. During operation in the 2nd Guards Taman Motorized Rifle Division, stationed in the village of Kalininets, Moscow Region, the tank under warranty broke down. The military drew up a complaint, and Uralvagonzavod sent two employees to the Moscow region to check the technical condition of the tank and repair it. Experts found that the cause of the failure is operational. "To be more precise," the prerequisite for this defect was the operation of the onboard gearbox with a low oil level in it, "says the Moscow Arbitration Court. The factory service team left for the place. which carried out repair work. Accordingly, UVZ demanded to recover 1 thousand rubles for spare parts and about 781 thousand rubles for business trips. The court refused UVZ to satisfy the requirements.

Knowing that "Between the lines" are local "brawlers" - it is useful to check. Indeed, such a thing was the place to be, but at the same time, I stumbled upon a few more relatively fresh ones. In general, in order ...

I'll start the analysis with what got into the press:

Case No.A40-114050 / 15-176-908 from 19.06.2015 year. The resolution part of the decision was announced on October 12, but the full text of the decision was made on December 31 of the year 2015. Uralvagonzavod Research and Production Corporation OJSC (hereinafter also the plaintiff) appealed to the Moscow Arbitration Court with a claim for recovery of losses from the RF Ministry of Defense (hereinafter also the respondents) 1.826.398 rubles 9 kopecks. According to the plaintiff, as part of the fulfillment of obligations under the state contract from 13.04.2007 No. T-113 (hereinafter also referred to as the contract), the plaintiff (supplier) delivered to the defendant (customer) a product-object 188А1 "Main battle tank T-90А" No. 2У11ВТ4273 (release November 2006 of the year), during the operation of which, during the warranty period, military unit No. 23626 (5-IMSBR, now 2-I MSD) detected defects.

During the inspection of the rejected product, a claim act No. XXUMX / 884 was drawn up, confirming the presence of the detected defect and the need to eliminate it by the supplier. To establish the cause of a product defect at the factory, an inspection report from 5 No. 07.10.2013 / 9-245 was drawn up, according to which the cause of the defect is operational, with the onboard gearbox (BKP) operating with a low oil level in it being a prerequisite for this defect.

In connection with the above, the plaintiff suffered losses related to sending two of its employees to the place of work on the restoration of the failed product in the period from 01.03.2013 to 06.03.2013 in the amount of 1.826.398 rubles 9 kopecks, of which travel expenses –33.771 ruble 74 kopecks, wages payment of seconded workers and social insurance contributions - 11.137 rubles 13 kopecks, cost of spare parts –1.781.498 rubles 22 kopecks.

To recover the amount of damages, the plaintiff must prove the fact of the breach of obligations by the defendants, the existence and amount of the damages caused, as well as the causal link between the violation and the losses incurred.
Meanwhile, the court concluded that the person whose actions (inaction) had caused damage to the claimant had not been established; evidence, confirming the damage to the plaintiff as a result of actions (inaction) of the defendant and testifying to the wrongfulness of his behavior, as well as the presence of a causal link between such illegal actions and causing damage, the plaintiff did not provide.

The result - in the lawsuit "Uralvagonzavod" was denied. Simply put, despite the fact that the defect was of an operational nature, they could not find a specific culprit. But where is it? Not at all clear! It is clear that in the event of detection of an error of operation - the culprit of the incident is the operator - a specific military unit. The tank has been in operation for more than six years - who else should be responsible for the oil level ??? In general, this decision can still be appealed in a month’s time, and it seems that the court will still be completely permeated. Confirmation of this, several more cases from arbitration practice with the participation of Uralvagonzavod and Moscow Region.

Case No.A40-68180 / 15 from 19 August 2015 of the year. The essence of the question is almost the same.

In accordance with contract No. T-113 of 13.04.2007, Uralvagonzavod supplied the MO of the Russian Federation with product 188А1 No. 2С07ВТ3288 (tank T-90А, released in July 2010 of the year). According to the complaint act No. 8 from 16.03.2012. the customer rejected the product due to the failure of the В-92С2 engine №2Я11AT1741 (release: December 2009г). The warranty period for the product is set to 10 years. At the time of the drafting of the complaint, the term of use of the product by the military unit - 1 year 6 months (ie, the tank was delivered in September 2010-th). The cause of the defect and the guilty party have not been established in the complaint act, a study of the defective product has been appointed at the manufacturer, LLC ChTZ-Uraltrak. In conclusion to the act it is indicated that the failed engine was replaced with a new one - №2С06AT0897 (issue :: June 2010g) from the fund of the military unit 61899 (27-IMSBR), the engine performance was checked according to the operating instructions 92XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX .

In addition, in conclusion of the research report No. 15 about the cause of a defect in the B-92C2 engine No. 2Я11AT1741, returned by the military unit from the parade site (the breakdown probably occurred during the preparation for the parade) upon notification of the 47 VP MO MO out. No. 47 / 177 from 30.03.12. according to the complaint act No. 8 from 16.03.2012. It is indicated that the engine failure is related to the destruction of the main and trailing connecting rods of the 2-x engine cylinders, the reason for which the studies conducted by the Supplier have not been established

According to the results of the studies conducted in the supplement to the act of study No. 15 from 02.04.2012. the reason for the engine defect given to the committee that the engine failure B-92S2 №2YA11AT1741 associated with the destruction of the main-2 (sb.3304-02-4) and trailing (sb.3304-03-5) rods due to violations operation, use of fuel with a low flash point. The established nature of the defect is operational.

Price issue:

Engine cost В-92С2 № 2С11AT1688 (release: December 2010г., Supplied by Uralvagonzavod to replenish the fund of military unit 61899) under an agreement between JSC NPK Uralvagonzavod after F.E. Dzerzhinsky "and LLC Chelyabinsk Tractor Plant-URALTRAC" on the manufacture and supply of number 54 / 1-23D from 16.06.2010., The price of the engine is defined in invoice No. 15732 from 29.11.2010г. invoice and amounted to 3 682 296 RUB. 14 cop
Work on the restoration of the product was performed by a team of 4 people, spent on the restoration of the product 188A1 № 2С07ВТ3288 -3 of the day. The fare (4 person) was 48 809,50 rubles. Daily expenses (4 person) for 3 of the day on 500 rub. per day made 6 000,00 rubles. Apartment expenses (4 person) for 3 of the day by 2 500 rub. per day made 30 000,00 rubles. Total travel expenses amounted to 84 809,50 rubles. The cost of the restoration work of the team from 4 people are calculated on the basis of the labor intensity norms for similar work (from the “Manual on troop repair. Replacing and repairing units and assemblies”, based on the actually paid salary in the 248 cipher (during a business trip), social insurance deduction rates: 30% by order of the Government of the Russian Federation on 24.11.2011 No. 974 and 4,1% in accordance with the Notice of the amount of insurance premiums on compulsory social insurance on 15.04.2011 .: Basic salary (4 person) = 19 024,56 RUB., Social security contributions, 34,1% = 6 487,37 RUB Total costs for the work amounted to 25 511,93 rubles.

The total amount of costs associated with the restoration of the defective product and the replacement of a failed engine - 3 749 604,54 rub.

The Claimant did not receive a response to the claim sent to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation.

The decision of the court is in favor of Uralvagonzavod.

Case No. A40-113819 / 15 from 22 October 2015 of the year.

Uralvagonzavod Research and Production Corporation OJSC appealed to the Moscow Arbitration Court with a claim to the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation for recovery of damages in the amount of 15 043 rubles. 30 cop. (Only - !!!, but the fact is a fact) .

As follows from the statement of claim, contract No. T-113 of 13.04.2007 was concluded between Uralvagonzavod and the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation, according to the terms of which 188-X1 products were delivered to the Respondent. 07.12.2012 when viewing a defective product 188А1 No. 2У10ВТ5624 (T-90А release October 2006 of the year) in military unit No. 22220 (20-I OMSBr), the commission drafted a reclamation act No. 13, confirming the presence of a detected defect, a year, the an a way, a year, a year, and out of service. The warranty period for the product is set for 188 years, the warranty time is 1 km. 10 m / h. Product 6000А350 №188У1ВТ2 used 10 years 5624 month, 6 km .. 3 m / h. In conclusion of the reclamation act №2475 from 362g. it is indicated that the AK-13SV-Yu compressor should be replaced with a new one from the fund of Uralvagonzavod Research and Production Corporation OJSC on the product. The reclamation act was signed by the commander of military unit No. 02.02.2013, the chairman of the commission, the head of the NBTS military unit 150, and the representative of Uralvagonzavod Scientific Production Corporation.

To establish the cause of the defect of the 188А1 item No.2У10ВТ5624, the manufacturing plant of the OJSC MMZ Znamya prepared the test report No.11 from 16.04.2013, which concluded that the cause of the defect is operational. The research act was agreed with the head of 353 24.04.2013 military office, the technical director of OAO MNZ Znamya 22.04.2013, the chairman of the commission, the head of the research bureau.

Based on the court documents, the dispute protocol was not drafted when the investigation report was signed by the Respondent, the investigation report was agreed by the representative of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation and confirms the presence of an operational defect of the product, 188А1 №2У10ВТ5624 without any claims.

In connection with the above, for the restoration of the product 188А1 №2У10ВТ5624 "Uralvagonzavod" suffered losses associated with the secondment of the worker and the performance of work on the restoration of the failed product. Between January 16 and 2013. February 08 2013 An 1 employee was seconded to restore the product from Uralvagonzavod Scientific Industrial Corporation OJSC (the duration of business trips is 24 days, including the restoration works of 188А1, № 2У10ВТ5624 -1 days). The amount of travel expenses is 13 686,70 rubles. of them:

Daily expenses in the amount of -700 rub. x 1 people. 1 day = 700 rub. apartment expenses in the amount of -2 500,00 rub. x 1 people day = 2500 rub. fare in the amount of - 10 486,70 rub.

The cost of the work - 1356,60 rub. of which: Basic salary - 252,60 rub. / hour x 4,0 hours = 1010,40 rub .; Social insurance contribution –34,264% = 1010,40 x 34,264% = 346,20 rub. The total amount of travel expenses amounted to 15043 rubles. 30 cop

The plaintiff (UVZ) sent a claim to the defendant with a claim for reimbursement. MO tried (in other matters, as usual) to shift the blame on the plant - such as a factory defect. But the evidence could not even provide.

Bottom line: the requirements of the manufacturer - "Uralvagonzavod" and this time were met. The truth of the disarranged MO, filed an appeal, which will be considered only 4 February.

Case No.A40-114094 / 15 from 23.06.2015. Solution from 19.08.2015. The lawsuit filed for the recovery of 6894 rubles. 80 cop (even more ridiculous even in comparison with the previous one), making up the amount of losses under the same contract No. T-113 from 13.04.2007. The definition of the Moscow Arbitration Court of 23.06.2015g. The claim was accepted for consideration in the procedure of simplified production. The defendant did not submit a written response to the claim, no objections were made.

The crux of the matter: a representative from the military unit 63354 (136-I OMSBr) filed a complaint against the plaintiff-a written statement in the prescribed form for defects found during the warranty period, as well as the requirement to replace defective products.
Notice of a defect in the 188А1 2Я07ВТ9822 (420) product (issue: July 2009 of the year, "420" is a tail number), due to a malfunction of the 172.33.011-4 air exhaust valve, presented to the plaintiff’s employees on site in the XNUM military unit. 63354 during the inspection of the defective product in the military unit 14.11.2013, formed by the commission, a complaint statement No. 63354 was drawn up, confirming the presence of the detected defect, as well as the warranty period for the product 67А188, which failed.

The circumstances described in the complaint of a defective product 188А1 2Я07ВТ9822 (420), research report No. 9 / 33-140 from 04.02.2014, namely: the actual determination of the defect of product 188X1 from the developer, the developer, the system’s product, 67 / 14.11.2013-63354 from 63354, is: in response to the claim for payment of the amount of the costs, not contested. In conclusion, to the complaint act No. XNUMX from XNUMXg. it is indicated that the product was restored by the supplier by the consumer, approved for use, the claim was satisfied, there were no claims from the XNUMX military unit to the plaintiff for the above defect. The reclamation act was signed by the temporary director of the BTS unit XNUMX, Capt. V. Timofeev, the temporary deputy chief commander Tb for armaments of the station Art. Leader A.Kondratenko and the head of the group of representatives of OAO NPK Uralvagonzavod in the Southern Military District A.Nagornyak.

To establish the cause of the defect of the product 188А1 2Я07ВТ9822 (420), the manufacturer’s factory of the Scientific and Production Corporation Uralvagonzavod OJSC compiled a research report No. 9 / 33-140 from 04.02.2014, which contained a conclusion of a figure, which contained a conclusion; The research act was coordinated with the Head of the 47 VP of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation O. Zazulya 30.01.2014, Chief Engineer of Uralvagonzavod Scientific and Production Corporation OJSC Y. Shangin, Director for Quality of Uralvagonzavod Scientific and Production Corporation OJSC A.Titov, Chairman of the Commission, Deputy Head 140 workshop and other members of the commission. The protocol of disagreements during the signing of the research report by the respondent was not drawn up, the research report was approved by the representative of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation and confirms the presence of an operational defect of the 188А1 product engine № 2Я07ВТ9822 without any claims.

Thus, the plaintiff for the restoration of the product 188А1 №2Я07ВТ9822 suffered losses associated with the secondment of the employee and the work on the restoration of the failed product 188А1. In the period 27.11.2013g. on 07.12.2013 An employee was seconded to restore the product from Uralvagonzavod Research and Production Corporation OJSC (the duration of the trip was –11 days, including the work on restoring the product 188А1 №2Я07ВТ9822 - 1 day).

Nagornyak A.G. (travel certificate No5043 from 26.11.2013, advance report No8178 from 26.12.2013),
a) the amount of travel expenses is 6505 rubles. 60 cop of which: daily expenses in the amount of 700 rub. x 1 day = 700 rub., travel expenses in the amount of 2200 rub. x 1 day = 2200 rub., fare in the amount of –3605 rub. 60 cop

b) the cost of the work - 389 rub. 20 cop of them: the main salary paid - (Nagornyak A.N.) = 289 rub. 88 cop. / Hour x 1,0 hours = 289 rub. 88 cop Social insurance contributions - 34,264% = 289 rub. 88 cop x 34,264% = 99 rub. 32 cop

The total amount of losses in the form of costs incurred by the plaintiff related to the restoration of the product is 6894 rubles. 80 cop the nature of the malfunction is confirmed by documents - an act of complaint drawn up by the commission in the prescribed manner.

Considering that the plaintiff proved the illegality of actions (inaction), the presence and amount of the harm caused, and the presence of a direct causal connection between the actions of the defendant and the losses caused to the plaintiff, claims are subject to court satisfaction in the declared amount, which was executed.

One could also postebatsya over the fact that to perform simple repairs, for which one person spends a maximum of one hour, they tear him down from the Urals and drive him to Dagestan, as a result of which the trip amounts to 11 days, but I will not ... One thing is clear - the system learning tankers, and, most importantly, the operation of tanks, we have long been time to change. This is due to both the complexity of the new technology, and its high cost. About this he wrote in his blog more than once. But let's hope that by the arrival of the Armata T-14 serial tanks in the army, at least something will change ...
Originator:
http://gurkhan.blogspot.ru/2016/01/blog-post_12.html
248 comments
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  1. bmv04636
    bmv04636 14 January 2016 14: 21 New
    -27
    it's time to stop the practice of putting conscripts behind the wheel.
    1. Alexey1
      Alexey1 14 January 2016 14: 24 New
      98
      where without them, in the case of a grandiose schukher, one still needs to learn.
      1. kil 31
        kil 31 14 January 2016 14: 29 New
        54
        It reminded me of a car. manufacturers. What the hell from them I get. It’s your own fault; they filled with the wrong gasoline, you don’t know how to drive because of this they ditched the box, and it flows. And everything is fine, everything is of high quality. Figs to you and not warranty repairs.
        1. GRAY
          GRAY 14 January 2016 14: 38 New
          31
          Quote: Kil 31
          Figs to you and not warranty repairs.

          It’s they who have not yet seen a solarium flooded instead of antifreeze. laughing
          1. kil 31
            kil 31 14 January 2016 14: 46 New
            +6
            Quote: GRAY
            Quote: Kil 31
            Figs to you and not warranty repairs.

            It’s they who have not yet seen a solarium flooded instead of antifreeze. laughing

            +++++ 100500 laughing laughing laughing
            1. Temples
              Temples 14 January 2016 15: 43 New
              65
              The article deals with problems in the operation of 4 tanks.

              And the author makes a conclusion like this -
              One thing is clear - the training system for tankers, and, most importantly, it’s time to change the operation of tanks for a long time.

              What kind of nonsense?
              How many vehicles were delivered to the troops during this period?
              What number of equipment failed due to the fault of the tankers?
              Tankers that broke all the tanks placed in the troops ??????

              Some kind of empty-bell article with accusations of conscripts of all sins.
              And, God forbid, what a mess what these very soldiers will protect this scribbler.
              1. 33 Watcher
                33 Watcher 14 January 2016 15: 54 New
                13
                I agree completely! In my opinion, a normal, ordinary situation. Well, they broke the tank, business ... The clout factor has not been canceled yet either. Well, the mechanic did not keep track of the oil level. Let them learn, then it’s also a technique. From whom it is necessary to remove chips, henceforth will follow ...
              2. NIKNN
                NIKNN 14 January 2016 17: 57 New
                +7
                Quote: Temples
                The article deals with problems in the operation of 4 tanks.

                And the author makes a conclusion like this -
                One thing is clear - the training system for tankers, and, most importantly, it’s time to change the operation of tanks for a long time.

                What kind of nonsense?
                How many vehicles were delivered to the troops during this period?
                What number of equipment failed due to the fault of the tankers?
                Tankers that broke all the tanks placed in the troops ??????

                Some kind of empty-bell article with accusations of conscripts of all sins.
                And, God forbid, what a mess what these very soldiers will protect this scribbler.

                And I agree. Where were the designers when they were supposed to provide for operation not by officers but by conscripts (I mean protection from the "fool", at least provide the alarm in an expensive unit). Saykonomili for a penny ... request
                1. bovig
                  bovig 14 January 2016 21: 38 New
                  +4
                  Quote: NIKNN
                  Quote: Temples
                  The article deals with problems in the operation of 4 tanks.

                  And the author makes a conclusion like this -
                  One thing is clear - the training system for tankers, and, most importantly, it’s time to change the operation of tanks for a long time.

                  What kind of nonsense?
                  How many vehicles were delivered to the troops during this period?
                  What number of equipment failed due to the fault of the tankers?
                  Tankers that broke all the tanks placed in the troops ??????

                  Some kind of empty-bell article with accusations of conscripts of all sins.
                  And, God forbid, what a mess what these very soldiers will protect this scribbler.

                  And I agree. Where were the designers when they were supposed to provide for operation not by officers but by conscripts (I mean protection from the "fool", at least provide the alarm in an expensive unit). Saykonomili for a penny ... request

                  Really! Didn’t provide for “protection from a fool” conscript driver, tank commander, platoon commander, all direct commanders-commanders, deputy technicians ...)))) Or is there no responsibility for maintaining the equipment in combat readiness in the current army? I remember, it was like this - the higher the rank, the higher the level of responsibility for the state of military equipment. The conscript soldier who exploited this equipment was sleeping more calmly ... True, it was the Soviet Army ... But equipment that had a factory defect could not get into operation by definition ... However, maybe I was little informed in this area , because my task was to operate and maintain, not just tanks, but radio stations ...
                2. sharp-lad
                  sharp-lad 14 January 2016 22: 02 New
                  +2
                  The designers provided everything that was allowed to be provided by the customer! Question to the customer - was it worth saving so meticulously?
                3. The comment was deleted.
                4. sir.jonn
                  sir.jonn 15 January 2016 00: 09 New
                  +1
                  Quote: NIKNN
                  And I agree. Where were the designers when they were supposed to provide for operation not by officers but by conscripts (I mean protection from the "fool", at least provide the alarm in an expensive unit). Sykonili or a penny ..

                  I agree too. But, it was necessary to protect the technology from fools who are not able to check the oil in the crankcase. Allowing people incapable of working with it has dangerous consequences.
                  1. gladcu2
                    gladcu2 15 January 2016 18: 11 New
                    +2
                    Protection from fools makes equipment more expensive and reduces reliability.

                    Check oil regularly. They scored.
                5. olegkrava
                  olegkrava 15 January 2016 01: 48 New
                  +1
                  What is the difference between a young officer and a conscript soldier? The fact that he sat in the classroom and poked a pointer into various units, or told what is called. The officer has to be trained in the troops. In order to know the equipment and operate it correctly, the officer must first get into this oil and solarium at the elbows, but most of the modern officers prefer "pen, gas, pay."
                6. Lexa-149
                  Lexa-149 20 January 2016 04: 15 New
                  0
                  Everything, of course, is correct. However, it is difficult to accuse our military equipment of insecurity and foolproofness. The soldier needs to be trained! And we have some conscripts who can be described with the following expression: “A SOLDIER LOOKS AT THING — IT'S ALREADY CORRUPT!”
                  There is negligence on the part of officials responsible for training soldiers and the technical condition of weapons. Where did the tank commander, commander of the platoon, company, company technician, deputy battalion technician look ?!
                  Since the failed units and assemblies could not be repaired by the forces of the regiment, and there were no such spare parts in the warehouses and, probably, the battalion did not want to take up this task, the commanders wanted to save their assholes and put the blame on the factory. That's where the dog rummaged!
              3. Alekseev
                Alekseev 14 January 2016 20: 52 New
                +9
                Quote: Temples
                What kind of nonsense?

                Well, why is this nonsense?
                As for teariness, the BTT incapacitation was earlier, and on a large scale.
                For example, at the time, in my opinion, at 26 TP there was a mass output of road wheels due to the fact that solidol was used instead of YANZ-2 or Litol-24 grease.
                In the same place, when the air temperature dropped below 20-25 degrees on DTU 19 TD, there was a massive problem of starting 5TDF engines due to the fact that "diesel fuel did not enter the nozzle of preheater and fuel system devices". Those. it didn’t correspond to the season and thickened (paraffinized), and also in some places contained banal water that froze in the fuel lines.
                But what does the preparation system have to do with it?
                And then, and now this is a consequence lack of order and irresponsibility.
                And conscripts can be taught for a year, but assigning expensive military equipment to a soldier of military service is stupid. After all, he now slammed his eyes twice, went on vacation and that’s all ... He served.
                As for the fact that the representative of the plant came to change the compressor lol (hour of work) this must be thanked by the unsinkable boar of Serdyukov and his relatives.
                He introduced outsourcing, they say, it is necessary that specialists from factories do everything, and accelerate remrots and rembats, etc. stupid speech.
                1. ARES623
                  ARES623 14 January 2016 21: 59 New
                  +4
                  Quote: Alekseev
                  As for the fact that the representative of the plant came to change the compressor (hour of operation), this must be thanked by the unsinkable boletus Serdyukov and his relatives.
                  He introduced outsourcing, they say, it is necessary that specialists from factories do everything, and accelerate remrots and rembats, etc. stupid speech.

                  Unfortunately, the whole government is praying for oatscing, both Medvedev’s today and Putin’s before him. This outsourcing is considered the engine of small business and, therefore, they are steeped in state and municipality structures, regardless of benefit, even if it incurs continuous overruns. A small business, it is small - both in volume and quality (mainly). What he succeeded in was injuries (sheltered), continuous and unpaid processing of hours by employees, underpayments in social funds and rudeness. At the same time, at least ten employees are seated with at least a gender with an insatiable wife, a permanent resident on the Cote d'Azur, a deputy and a governor. Maybe I’m not lucky, but out of a dozen such enterprises that I have to work with, they are almost the same. Happiness that there is no outright banditry. And everyone has one excuse - others in terms of the quality of the enterprise’s maintenance will not survive in the existing 44-FZ conditions. If it was only Serdyukov’s business with Vasilyeva, one could say that the country is in chocolate. The problem sits higher (by rank).
                  As for the disputes between manufacturers and the operation, this is a routine matter. And there and there are boobies. In the "national economy" the situation will be cooler.
              4. Dryuya2
                Dryuya2 14 January 2016 20: 58 New
                0
                Quote: Temples
                Some kind of empty-bell article with accusations of conscripts of all sins.
                And, God forbid, what a mess what these very soldiers will protect this scribbler.

                a little bit about the author winked
                18 ++ (checkmate)
                The provocateur separatist Khlopotov (Gur-Khan) - facts
                http://andrei-bt.livejournal.com/110363.html
                1. Corporal Valera
                  Corporal Valera 16 January 2016 00: 59 New
                  0
                  Quote: Dryuya2
                  a little bit about the author

                  Already from the title it is clear that the author is very sensitive to the Russian army hi
          2. Great-grandfather of Zeus
            Great-grandfather of Zeus 14 January 2016 15: 03 New
            +8
            GRAY, but how do you like antifreeze instead of diesel fuel? More precisely, the tanker’s driver didn’t pour the remaining antifreeze and poured it into the solarium. And with the car, it was a “shilka” - tormented in the field in the cold — changed filters, purged and washed all the pipes ... - tormented for someone else's indifference.
            1. hrapon
              hrapon 14 January 2016 16: 21 New
              +8
              Quote: Great-grandfather of Zeus
              ..... but how do you like antifreeze instead of diesel fuel? More precisely, the tanker’s carrier didn’t pour the remnants of antifreeze and poured the diesel fuel there ...


              Yes. There were pearls .... The platoon is sorry. I met long-service lieutenants. I recall from Cherkasov:

              "Starley, why are you so sad?
              - My watch machine dropped overboard. What will it be for me now?
              “But there will be nothing for you .... No academy, no next military rank, no replacement ..."
            2. Sirocco
              Sirocco 14 January 2016 16: 47 New
              13
              Quote: Great-grandfather of Zeus
              But how do you antifreeze instead of diesel?

              And how do you overheat the new Kamaz, what would it catch a wedge? The reason was the gasket between the steering wheel and the seat.
              The driver (soldier) did not know, what are radiator shutters, and how to use them, and most importantly why.
              I once before serving in the army, studied for half a year as a driver of category C, in DOSAAF.
              Well, these are flowers.
              A neighbor in the garage, a guy of 25 years, an employee of the Armed Forces, doesn’t heat the oven by the car, I look and brought a new radiator in the package, I wondered how and what is changing, I asked, but he is sure that the filter is not blocked, that the tap is open. In short, the crane is closed, and the cable is open.
              Here it is the SYSTEM OF EDUCATION AND TRAINING. angry
          3. Interlocutor
            Interlocutor 14 January 2016 22: 20 New
            0
            Yes, yes it happened, especially when a cold tank had to be shed from the platform ..
        2. REDBLUE
          REDBLUE 14 January 2016 14: 53 New
          +7
          Oh warriors. They themselves will break it then try to squeeze it from the manufacturer. Apparently, all this was cool before.
          1. jjj
            jjj 14 January 2016 15: 56 New
            13
            You can look at the matter from the other side. If we take the total number of tanks and understand that they are operated almost everywhere at the same level, we can conclude that our military equipment is very reliable
            1. Sirocco
              Sirocco 14 January 2016 16: 53 New
              +1
              Quote: jjj
              If you take the total number of tanks and understand that they are operated almost everywhere at the same level,

              According to the tanker, the main reason for the breakdown of tanks since the late 90s was that the tanks with the gas turbine engine and the internal combustion engine slowed down and moved differently, I don’t remember exactly what and how, but the point is learning how to drive a tank with an internal combustion engine, the algorithm of action was automatically transferred to the gas turbine engine, from which the blades flew on the engine.
              1. sibiryk
                sibiryk 14 January 2016 17: 50 New
                +5
                hi As an educational program: a gas turbine engine is also an internal combustion engine, and tankers in training units are trained (-vili) for a particular tank with either a gas turbine engine or a diesel engine and, as a rule, they are sent to the same types of tanks (-s). GTE turbines fly if both levers are pulled over.
          2. sharp-lad
            sharp-lad 14 January 2016 22: 14 New
            0
            And what conscripts? Until 2014, who got into the Army? If my memory serves me, then the prestige of service in the Army began to rise in 2014, and the Army finally had a choice of who was in the tank, who was on the ship, and who was only on the tower, and only under the supervision of an experienced partner!
          3. Marconi41
            Marconi41 15 January 2016 02: 52 New
            +1
            Quote: REDBLUE
            Oh warriors. They themselves will break it then try to squeeze it from the manufacturer

            Do not tell. Often, manufacturers strain more than any conscripts. They always try to throw all the damage on the explant. Is always!!! So this argument is twofold. Somewhere the army men are stupid, but the factory workers are also those blonders ... Believe me, no one is in a hurry to part with their money.
        3. tol100v
          tol100v 14 January 2016 14: 57 New
          17
          Quote: Kil 31
          . And everything is fine, everything is of high quality. Figs to you and not warranty repairs.

          Here is another case. Military envoys accepted the technique. So marriage should not be by definition! The machine was operated for some time in the warhead. There were no complaints or comments. It follows that something is wrong in the COURT (conservatory)!
          1. Snake AAA
            Snake AAA 14 January 2016 15: 12 New
            -3
            The guarantee is a guarantee, and if you did not knock on the units with a hammer and there are no visible damages, please be kind to fulfill your warranty obligations !!!!
            1. Cynic
              Cynic 14 January 2016 15: 28 New
              0
              Quote: Snake AAA
              no visible damage please

              To clean, tint, sort out?
              Only the mind to check the correspondence of the numbering and markings of the nodes was not fate, but it did.
              Taboo.
            2. amber-50
              amber-50 14 January 2016 15: 41 New
              +8
              I don’t agree. If, during several years of operation of the tank, the oil did not change (or the level was not checked), then what does the factory have to do with it? It’s not the operator’s professionalism.
              1. Cynic
                Cynic 14 January 2016 16: 10 New
                +2
                Quote: amber-50
                It’s not the professionalism of the operator.

                Ever tried to prove that 2x2 = 4?
                It was enough for me once.
                wink
                1. sharp-lad
                  sharp-lad 14 January 2016 22: 18 New
                  0
                  Yes, a rather long unpromising lesson. hi But it's time to start! A drop of water sharpens a stone!
              2. Hey
                Hey 14 January 2016 16: 35 New
                +2
                About the oil level, this is a flaw in the engineer, the siren should roar when the oil level has dropped below the set or the mechanics hit the head of a sledgehammer.
                1. Blackmokona
                  Blackmokona 14 January 2016 17: 09 New
                  +1
                  He presented a combat alert, an enemy landing, the tank was urgently thrown into battle, not a damn thing was heard from behind the siren, the mechanic was in the cut from the blow of a sledgehammer and all because they did not add oil. wassat
                2. Dart2027
                  Dart2027 14 January 2016 19: 30 New
                  +1
                  I heard whether I don’t know whether or not I don’t get started in Armata, that is, either follow the equipment as it should or push it manually.
                3. WERSTA.
                  WERSTA. 14 January 2016 19: 43 New
                  +5
                  No need to rely on automation. The mechanic must have the brains and conscientiously relate to his duties. The life of the crew depends on the readiness of the equipment. I served in the early 60s and before each departure from the park my mechanic checked readiness from and to. And the oil level in all nodes and in the crankcase is sacred, which means compulsory.
          2. sharp-lad
            sharp-lad 14 January 2016 22: 15 New
            0
            Not all defects appear immediately, the most filthy need quite a lot of time for manifestation.
        4. jaguar
          jaguar 14 January 2016 14: 59 New
          23
          Without justifying the manufacturers of our car industry, I will tell you the following. Working 9 years ago at UVZ I was in the T-90 tank .... I’ll tell you the most complicated mechanism ... obviously not for conscripts. Now, working in the industrial equipment repair service, I myself see how this equipment is used (turning, milling, etc. .) The machines work in such modes that often I myself cut the machinists. This is all with an excuse ... we need to earn a deal from us and do not care that there is no oil that the regimes are one and a half times higher than the tolerance .....
          1. Cynic
            Cynic 14 January 2016 15: 31 New
            +1
            Quote: jaguar
            obviously not for conscripts.

            They need to sort through nodes or change?
            Everyone just needs to do what they must! And do not look for the extreme.
            1. Old old
              Old old 14 January 2016 23: 45 New
              +1
              Everyone just needs to do what they must! And do not look for the extreme.

              What the customer ordered in TK, they developed and did. As an example - the flight recorder of the downed SU-24. If the MO ordered an alarm to drop the oil level, it would be done, but there is no trial.
              In my opinion, the courts are wrong. Monitoring the level of operating fluids is the responsibility of the operator.
          2. igor.borov775
            igor.borov775 14 January 2016 16: 21 New
            +5
            Hi!! Yes, the quality of training clearly has its own problems. It is. But then there were still problems already in Moscow Oblast. All this mess with the repair factories was probably not over yet. It was planned to transfer them to the manufacturers of military equipment without interrupting the fluid work. Even then, not everyone was eager to take the very worn-out enterprises to their balance. There are clearly problems that can be traced. elimination of a defect or malfunction if there is a factory for the repair of armored vehicles somewhere nearby .. Not everything else has worked out if specialists from the head production are being driven into this distance. Probably it will end soon. The repair factories will be updated with new equipment and there will be no such interesting cases. I am sure that such disgraces as not checking the oil level will soon end. And the article is a so-so reminder that there are direct commanders, the commanders could not prepare real shots. By the way, biathletes also speak and not bad. Sometimes shots that tankers do during short breaks get on the TV screen. Probes for liquids can be seen as they look means the whole thing is in training.
            1. user
              user 14 January 2016 20: 05 New
              0
              Why send a specialist to fix the defect or malfunction if there is a factory for the repair of armored vehicles somewhere nearby.


              Here sometimes I read literature (memoirs) about the Great Patriotic War, so there are no examples on this subject. Even look at the documentary about the initial period of the Second World War, how much Soviet equipment was thrown, and thrown out due to minor malfunctions. Of course, you can blame the unpreparedness of personnel or ask why the Zampotech was not shot for this. But then these problems suddenly disappeared somewhere, and after all the personnel became even less prepared to act (war) and the deputy technicians (who remained alive) were the same. And the casket opens simply, the repair base was moved to the combat units, so the story goes in a circle.
              Actually, I got the impression that the one who is responsible for these questions probably does not even suspect that these issues arose and were resolved 70 years ago.
              1. ARES623
                ARES623 15 January 2016 08: 47 New
                0
                Quote: user
                Actually, I got the impression that the one who is responsible for these questions probably does not even suspect that these issues arose and were resolved 70 years ago.

                If you read literature on the history of WWII, then you should have been struck by how many equipment and people were killed due to technical malfunctions of equipment, weapons and ammunition associated with poor production quality. Tank engines did not produce even a half of the guaranteed resource, about 30% of the fleet was lost due to manufacturing defects, BBS scattered when they hit armor instead of breaking through. Yes, many more can be listed. Just the level of technology, and then, and today is far ahead of the technical culture of the country's population, which affects both production and operation. And there is no solution yet. And in the near future is not expected.
                1. user
                  user 18 January 2016 19: 37 New
                  0
                  Just the level of technology, and then, and today is far ahead of the technical culture of the country's population,


                  I would have corrected this a bit, the level of personnel training (I won’t talk about production, there were problems) was extremely low.
            2. sharp-lad
              sharp-lad 14 January 2016 22: 27 New
              0
              Did you pay attention to the layout of the cost of repairs in the article? There, the costs of repairs and the trip itself are almost invisible against the background of the cost of replaced / repaired parts and assemblies! But in the case of warfare, wait a long time specialist, this is nonsense! I think that the problem can be solved by taking professionals to the contract for rembats, and not for 10 per month.
        5. 73bor
          73bor 14 January 2016 15: 07 New
          +2
          The fact of the matter is that a tank engine must meet the requirements of multi-fuel, i.e. work on everything that burns, and the gearbox should not break with any amount of oil, except for its complete absence! The court decision is correct, because there are a lot of requirements of the Ministry of Defense for military equipment, but here it’s not to fulfill these requirements! A tank is not a tractor, it is a tank!
          1. Igluxnumx
            Igluxnumx 14 January 2016 17: 31 New
            +4
            The laws of physics (and the force of friction) are not canceled by anyone. The engine is placed on the tank in the engine compartment, which has a certain volume. And the designer needs to get about 1000 hp from this volume. No lubrication - no way! The requirements of the military are understandable, but they must be reasonable. Technique is becoming more complex, and the level of knowledge of young people is becoming lower. These are multidirectional processes! It’s almost impossible to come up with protection from a fool.
            1. 78bor1973
              78bor1973 14 January 2016 18: 37 New
              0
              It’s not the first year that the T-90s have been manufactured and all the standards and technologies have been worked out, as well as reasonable, but blaming the crank break for the wrong flash point is simply idiocy!
            2. sharp-lad
              sharp-lad 14 January 2016 22: 30 New
              0
              I allow myself to disagree with you a little bit, it is still possible to protect equipment from a fool, but from a cadet and conscript - UNREAL! laughing
            3. The comment was deleted.
          2. gross kaput
            gross kaput 14 January 2016 17: 31 New
            +3
            Quote: 73bor
            and the gearbox must not break with any amount of oil

            and he must ride without an engine and shoot without a gun laughing Do not smack nonsense, there are maintenance procedures provided by the plant, and if the gearbox could work without oil, then it would not be required in it. There are certain standards how much a tank, for example, can pass with a damaged cooling or lubrication system - but this concerns force majeure in combat conditions, when it doesn’t matter that after 3 km the gearbox dies or the engine sticks out the main thing to creep out from under the fire, and not as it does daily operation in the troops. The same with respect to multi-fuel - the same restrictions on engine operating modes (revolutions and temperature) and on the total mileage on non-native fuel - the V-92, as far as I remember, withstands the passport no more than 500 km on low-octane gasoline, and with serious restrictions in terms of speed and temperature, including the environment - then dies.
            1. 78bor1973
              78bor1973 14 January 2016 18: 33 New
              0
              And in general, the final drive gears are dry, lubricated forcibly from the tank, therefore there can be at least oil in the tank for proper operation!
          3. DmitryK
            DmitryK 14 January 2016 17: 37 New
            -2
            Do not distort. Multi-fuel and multi-fuel - there is a difference.
            1. gross kaput
              gross kaput 14 January 2016 18: 50 New
              +2
              and in what? yes, by the way, did they come up with the term "all-fuel"? laughing
          4. unsinkable
            unsinkable 14 January 2016 21: 02 New
            0
            Quote: 73bor
            and the gearbox should not break with any amount of oil, except for its complete absence!

            And the tank crew should not feel hunger with any amount of food, or even with its complete absence. Here it is an invincible army. The oil is neither in the head, nor in the tank. wink
        6. Aroma77
          Aroma77 14 January 2016 15: 38 New
          +1
          I am glad that Uralvagonzavod still gives guarantees.))
        7. Kite
          Kite 14 January 2016 17: 06 New
          +3
          Quote: Kil 31
          It reminded me of a car. manufacturers. What the hell from them I get. It’s your own fault; the wrong gas station

          I agree with you. And if you look at the performance characteristics, then: Engine type: four-stroke, V-shaped, 12-cylinder multi-fuel gas turbine liquid-cooled diesel engine
          is a tank, and not a representative limousine, the engine of the tank should be designed to work on fuel of different quality.
          Representatives of the plant would generally be silent about an onboard gearbox (gearbox) with insufficient oil level. After all, they themselves did not add. According to the maintenance regulations, after what mileage should I change the oil in the gearbox? The tank is more likely to be written off from the battle group in the combat training than it runs back this mileage. The new tank belongs to the battle group and its mileage is only for large exercises, most of the time the tank is in boxing. At one time, on the counter of my car, by the end of my service, it was 1300 km, and behind the levers I traveled a little more than 2500 km, becoming at the end of the service a 1st-class mechanical drive.
      2. Samurai3X
        Samurai3X 14 January 2016 14: 42 New
        -18
        In the case of a grandiose noon, no conscripts will save. Here we are no longer looking at each other with artillery and aviation, as in World War II, but with ICBMs.
      3. alexanderrzn
        alexanderrzn 14 January 2016 14: 42 New
        -31
        maybe it’s easier to finally allow the weapon?
        1. Ami du peuple
          Ami du peuple 14 January 2016 14: 50 New
          10
          Quote: alexanderrzn
          maybe it’s easier to finally allow the weapon?

          To hell? In order to shoot yourself, so as not to suffer? How and with what your allowed short barrel will help, for example, against the same tank? Nonsense...
          1. wasjasibirjac
            wasjasibirjac 14 January 2016 15: 11 New
            +3
            Quote: Ami du peuple
            To hell? In order to shoot yourself, so as not to suffer? How and how will your permitted short barrel help, for example, against the same tank? Nonsense...
            wait until the tankers get out into the fresh air, they will not always sit in a single tank, and .....
            1. alexanderrzn
              alexanderrzn 2 February 2016 14: 46 New
              0
              who is talking about a short barrel? a person’s head is just full of garbage, I'm talking about weapons in all its manifestations.
          2. alexanderrzn
            alexanderrzn 2 February 2016 14: 44 New
            0
            well, if you don’t know how to use weapons, then you’re a real marshal)))) you fought on paper, but forgot about the ravines .... before you write about nonsense and the short-barrel, turn on your head ...
        2. The comment was deleted.
      4. Committee
        Committee 14 January 2016 14: 48 New
        -8
        Quote: Alexey1
        where without them, in the case of a grandiose schukher, one still needs to learn.

        In the case of a "grandiose racket" - tanks will not be needed.
        1. Extraneous
          Extraneous 14 January 2016 15: 06 New
          +9
          Any nudity begins with the seed. And besides the grand, there are such as Hohland and Syria.
          The problem is the low preparation of conscripts of which you will not make specialists in a year.
          The problem is the lack or lack of competent mechanics in parts.
          The problem is in the limited means of parts and inadequate supply.
          The problem is the reluctance of commanders to be punished because of the gouging of subordinates, in the inability or unwillingness to control their actions.
          1. MstislavHrabr
            MstislavHrabr 14 January 2016 16: 37 New
            +1
            I have repeatedly proposed and will repeat it again. It is necessary to transfer part of the DOSAAF tanks (without the possibility of firing of course) and strengthen them with personnel. And when you get a driver’s license (for the state’s money, by the way) for trucks - it’s also obligatory to make a change to a tank ... and that’s it ... the problem is solved ...
            1. Kite
              Kite 14 January 2016 23: 41 New
              0
              Quote: MstislavHrabr
              change of rights tank

              - "tank rights"! laughing laughing laughing
              There is a VUS, and not “tank rights,” a military specialty is received in the training units of the Armed Forces. In this context, one will have to undergo driving training in a convoy on a march, with restructuring in combat order, overcoming obstacles, interacting with the crew and unit on the march and in combat, in attack and defense, all of the above - day and night, in different weather and on different terrain. Add independent technical maintenance (study of materiel) and, preferably, obtaining related specialties. Get a course of regular education and training for a year with a margin of production wink
              1. alexanderrzn
                alexanderrzn 2 February 2016 14: 52 New
                0
                even if so, and do an e-mail at your own expense, but at the end, give the person the opportunity to buy a depleted tank from the same army, and you will get a tricked specialist who loves to do this, not from under the stick, but in the case of a shecher, a specific combat unit
            2. alexanderrzn
              alexanderrzn 2 February 2016 14: 49 New
              0
              why without the possibility of shooting and why only dosaafu?
      5. bmv04636
        bmv04636 14 January 2016 14: 52 New
        11
        and can lead GNP from grade 9. I remember earlier in the villages with 8 classes taught driving a tractor.
      6. max702
        max702 14 January 2016 17: 37 New
        +1
        Quote: Alexey1
        where without them, in the case of a grandiose schukher, one still needs to learn.

        Here is the answer: what kind of rascal was such that it was necessary to call on former conscripts from the reserve? Naturally a real rascal, and not a hypothetical type of horse in a vacuum (war with NATO). The article says how much it costs not only illiterate conscripts but also semi-literate officers of those. services can do this?
        1. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 14 January 2016 18: 31 New
          0
          Quote: max702
          Here is the answer: what kind of rascal was such that it was necessary to call on former conscripts from the reserve?

          Heh heh heh ... based on the experience of our "probable adversary", a big war is not necessary to call on the reservists. Enough operations on the type of invasion of Iraq in 2003, when the Yankees had to use the National Guard along with the regulars.
    2. mishastich
      mishastich 14 January 2016 14: 25 New
      32
      You can’t refuse the call - there will be no mob. stock.
      You can’t put contractors everywhere - the budget is not rubber.

      The author is right, it is necessary to change the methodology itself, or rather, to understand its shortcomings. Why are UVZ specialists traveling across the country? Why it is impossible to carry out repairs in the PDP? Why is there no stock of parts?
      1. tolyasik0577
        tolyasik0577 14 January 2016 14: 56 New
        27
        The author is right, it is necessary to change the methodology itself, or rather, to understand its shortcomings

        I agree, when I was in the ranks of conscripts, the ensign made us not only polish the BTR wheels with a wax to a shine, but also perform full maintenance. A day in the park began with checking the oil in the crankcase and the like. And it doesn’t matter that they haven’t left the garage for a week. We learned to serve the car as a whole from replacing the universal joint to the bulkhead of the piston group. In the field, no one will repair your equipment, learn to do it yourself. This is in VV RF 3654 Cossack camps. I can firmly say that the service has benefited.
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 14 January 2016 15: 13 New
          +3
          Eh, you are lucky with a piece. smile
      2. tol100v
        tol100v 14 January 2016 15: 12 New
        +9
        Quote: mishastich
        You can’t refuse the call - there will be no mob. stock.

        A call is needed, if only so that every guy knows what AKM is and much more that is in our Army. After (God forbid) how it starts, it will be too late to learn! There will simply be no one to teach!
      3. 73bor
        73bor 14 January 2016 15: 13 New
        +2
        Crafts from the manufacturer's factory always went to the troops, this is normal practice, and repairs in the park are done in the amount of maintenance using the cards available. There are simply units that are repaired only by factory representatives!
      4. An64
        An64 14 January 2016 15: 21 New
        +5
        Quote: mishastich
        Why are UVZ specialists traveling across the country? Why it is impossible to carry out repairs in the PDP? Why is there no stock of parts?

        There are a lot of open documents on the basis of which all this is done. First of all, it is GOST for warranty service and complaints.
        The article clearly states - we are talking about tanks located under the WARRANTY! It is correctly said that in the event of a malfunction a complaint was made. And specialists of the enterprise repair equipment at their own expense. The fact that UVZ wants to return the money spent, proving that the faults of those who exploit are understandable. Who wants to part with their money (from profit)?
        1. mishastich
          mishastich 15 January 2016 10: 35 New
          0
          I understand everything, I myself worked in a UVZ branch. Just a tank - not a car from the passenger compartment. Neither the conscript nor the contractor will be able to make a cap. engine repair, but they must replace the caterpillar or add oil. This is simplistic. Due to the inability of the soldiers arising from the work of their commanders, both sides lose money and time. Yes, and a spot on the reputation - our conscripts are stupid people, our tanks are shit (exaggerated).

          At VO there are many people who have served or are associated with the defense industry, everyone understands that the army is a very large and inert mechanism. To change something, you need a lot of time, effort, desire and the ability to take responsibility. Without this, mistakes will be repeated time after time, no matter who the minister / general / president is and so on.

          Warrant officers will be introduced again, may be renamed non-commissioned officers or staff sergeants, but they will be introduced. Need an intermediate position between the rank and file and officers.

          As always, with respect.
      5. Nehist
        Nehist 14 January 2016 15: 58 New
        +3
        Well, in our country, the clever Serdyukov ORVB disbanded and dismantled all the techno-men who mostly ensigned as a class. Now the system will be restored for a long time. Many then retired for retirement, and others after such an attitude, and we cant
        1. Saratoga833
          Saratoga833 14 January 2016 16: 45 New
          +1
          Quote: Nehist
          smart Serdyukov

          This clever man, and now in a warm, dusty and monetary position and for his slovenliness, as Minister of Defense, has not suffered any punishment. Very sorry!
    3. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 14 January 2016 14: 26 New
      +5
      Quote: bmv04636
      it's time to stop the practice of putting conscripts behind the wheel.
      The point is generally not a bobbin ...
      And according to the article - I’m surprised by the cost of the T-90 engine,
      3 682 296 rub. 14 kopecks
      Where did such amounts come from?
      1. alexanderrzn
        alexanderrzn 14 January 2016 14: 45 New
        +7
        find a friend from the defense of the plant, they will tell you how a simple bolt for 12 rubles, with the help of tricky paper manipulations, turns into a top-secret, nanobolt for 1200 rubles.
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 14 January 2016 14: 53 New
          +5
          Quote: alexanderrzn
          find someone familiar with the plant’s defense,

          But what to look for - the guy at UVZ worked all his life, though not in the estimated department, but at the machine. He says there really is no one to work, youth with a unit head.
          1. vit8180
            vit8180 14 January 2016 15: 04 New
            +4
            USE rules ...
            All managers see themselves ....
            And what about the machine? Do you earn?
          2. sharp-lad
            sharp-lad 14 January 2016 22: 31 New
            0
            Have you tried to raise your salary?
        2. Scoun
          Scoun 14 January 2016 14: 56 New
          +3
          Quote: alexanderrzn
          they will tell you how a simple bolt for 12 rubles, with the help of tricky paper manipulations, turns into a top-secret, nanobolt for 1200 rubles

          A few years ago, one said so (deputy general). - Rum, and you can’t buy a 3-ruble rivet for 14 each.
          He just knows that I only work clean.)))
        3. alllll
          alllll 14 January 2016 15: 02 New
          0
          While the Ministry of Defense will solve the problems of its local incompetence at the expense of the manufacturer, the manufacturers themselves will cover these costs with the help of these nanobolts. In the end, the state will still pay.
      2. Vadim237
        Vadim237 14 January 2016 15: 01 New
        +1
        Large production and costs are high, and here they are raising prices - weapons are an expensive thing.
    4. MIKHAN
      MIKHAN 14 January 2016 14: 26 New
      13
      Previously, for such an article they would simply have been shot and that’s all ..! Everything is laid out by the bastard ...
      1. wasjasibirjac
        wasjasibirjac 14 January 2016 15: 15 New
        +2
        Arbitration court sites are publicly available, go see solutions. so it doesn’t reveal any secrets.
        1. Gorinich
          Gorinich 14 January 2016 15: 39 New
          +2
          Here are the decisions of these courts most of all and infuriate.
      2. Mordvin 3
        Mordvin 3 14 January 2016 17: 54 New
        +2
        Quote: MIKHAN
        Previously, for such an article they would simply have been shot and that’s all ..! Everything is laid out by the bastard ...

        Do not kill, Meehan! Tut has not yet been written how much Nagornyak spent on vodka and prostitutes. laughing
    5. An64
      An64 14 January 2016 14: 27 New
      31
      Quote: bmv04636
      it's time to stop the practice of driving conscripts

      Conscripts sit behind the LEVER of tanks as long as these vehicles exist ...
      But to revive at the proper level technical support, the responsibility of officials to control the technical condition of equipment - this, indeed, is the time.
    6. vlad66
      vlad66 14 January 2016 14: 31 New
      12
      But colleagues are interesting, but who is the author of this article? Having an anonymous author, the article then:
      I wrote about this in my blog
      So who wrote that? Tukhlyatina stinks.
    7. dauria
      dauria 14 January 2016 14: 36 New
      +9
      to perform a simple repair, on which one person spends a maximum of one hour, they tear him from the Urals and drive him to Dagestan,


      It has always been so, the product is guaranteed, there is a procedure (law) for calling the representative of the manufacturer and drawing up the complaint. The deadlines are tight (we had three days). Representatives never got into trouble, but only asked to slightly change the wording. No one has ever written a “dissenting opinion” in the complaint. Army men could make their life unbearable easily and simply (the main thing is to contain documentation in order). Usually agreed "peace." The courts? Yes, it’s ridiculous to talk about this, the entire plant will go bankrupt if the customer — the military — becomes embittered.
    8. The comment was deleted.
    9. vovanpain
      vovanpain 14 January 2016 14: 42 New
      11
      Quote: bmv04636
      it's time to stop the practice of putting conscripts behind the wheel.

      But in case of war mechanics do not need to be trained? Or lock up all the equipment in hangars, so that they wouldn’t break in vain? Is the article obviously a provocative throw-in or is it already being prepared for surrender?
      1. kayman4
        kayman4 14 January 2016 14: 55 New
        +2
        oil can be measured in different ways - came jabbed the dipstick into the side (and it is broken as we know) - oh no oil. Only when parking it is supposed to do double pumping from the BKP and there obviously will not be the set oil level when measuring for cold.


        PS BMP-2 somehow came to us from the factory - when it was removed to the platform, the engine cracked the sump - it turned out that the engine was not bolted :)
    10. Denis Obukhov
      Denis Obukhov 14 January 2016 14: 47 New
      +7
      The reason such as the low oil level in the gearbox is not understood.

      The tank has a GUiSKP (hydraulic control and gearbox lubrication) system with two gearboxes and both of them with dry sump. The oil level TSZP-8 is checked in the tank of the system. It seems to me that the Uralvagonzavod is writing off its marriage for exploitation and the military acceptance is interested in this, so as not to substitute.

      Left BKP in ob184 has always been problematic
      1. 73bor
        73bor 14 January 2016 15: 18 New
        +4
        I agree completely, and the breakdown of the connecting rods due to low-quality fuel is complete nonsense, if the engine is multi-fuel then what are the questions about the flash point !?
      2. tol100v
        tol100v 14 January 2016 15: 31 New
        +3
        Quote: Denis Obukhov
        and the military reception is interested in this, so as not to be substituted.

        So maybe with military representatives and start checking?
    11. Alexei
      Alexei 14 January 2016 14: 49 New
      +4
      Quote: bmv04636
      it's time to stop the practice of putting conscripts behind the wheel.

      But conscripts are not people now? It’s not their fault that education is now reduced and worsened. In general, repair should be carried out by the part itself, and spare parts there should be spare. And if war, a hike? Enough for all these repairmen from the manufacturer?
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. a.hamster55
        a.hamster55 14 January 2016 16: 44 New
        0
        Dear Alexej! Do you think that training of mechanical drivers was better before? I recall the disgrace in the GSVG - the front lines of the social camp. Collection time 20 min. One can hear the engines of the Abrams and Leopards warming up on the other side. And 3 TA set the task to make a march to the north. A third of the Tank Army remained on the roads along the routes. I had to look at individual turntables on turntables, sit down on German fields and the black colonels ran to the remaining armor and knock on the mount, usually a hungry mechanic crawled out and explained the reason. am
    12. Mareman Vasilich
      Mareman Vasilich 14 January 2016 14: 53 New
      +7
      This is a system. You won’t go far on contract soldiers, consider mercenaries. It is necessary to increase the service life to at least two years, so that after training they come to the knowledgeable. Conscripts will mainly defend their homeland. And the state should perceive such costs as repair of military equipment normally. But in fact, the fault here is not hotel structures, the fault of the whole system as a whole. And with the current policy it will not be better.
      1. Sorokin
        Sorokin 14 January 2016 15: 02 New
        +1
        As a military officer and military specialist would serve more. Who will give? I would pass on the basics of fighting DRG and what is infiltration.
    13. Shuttle
      Shuttle 14 January 2016 15: 20 New
      +7
      Quote: bmv04636
      it's time to stop the practice of putting conscripts behind the wheel.

      It is necessary to properly train conscripts. First on simulators, then on training tanks to drive up a sweat. And so that they themselves can prevent malfunctions.
      Himself in the 87-88 drummed on the 72-ke in Uruchye (Minsk). And although he was a gunner, he also learned to drive, and to maintain a gun, and much more.
      In stock, we should not only have a lot of reliable tanks, but also a sufficient number of well-trained reservists. Well-trained reservists appear only from well-trained conscripts.
      Without options.
      1. made13
        made13 14 January 2016 17: 19 New
        0
        Normal training for a year of military service is impossible. There are two options - either to increase the term of military service at least up to two years, or to work before the conscription in DOSAAF with the obligatory passing of credits, the results of which will be paid salaries in dosaaf and military commissariats. Including military commissars.
      2. Sorokin
        Sorokin 14 January 2016 22: 04 New
        0
        Yes so. But not really. Until you sit by the levers you won’t understand anything. And without serving and even more so.
    14. Juborg
      Juborg 14 January 2016 15: 37 New
      +2
      Well, this is a tank, it should work in any conditions. Stupidly there is no oil, it should not start until it is poured, etc. After all, if there is no gasoline or kerosene, will it start up? So make sure that without oil in the same box, it could not be started. And it’s easier to blame for conscripts or extramural students. In addition, there is a brew, a bunch of responsible mechanics and other loafers, whose duties include checking the equipment and technical environments in it. Stupidly in aviation, the technician will not refuel the plane until he filters kerosene and fills with oil, alcohol, etc. There is mutual responsibility, neither of the parties did anything to prevent such a breakdown.
      1. Cynic
        Cynic 14 January 2016 16: 19 New
        +4
        Quote: juborg
        Stupidly in aviation

        The helicopter stupidly crashed in aviation, back in Soviet times, oil was not added to the tail rotor gear in time and it jammed.
        Protection from the fool
        1. sharp-lad
          sharp-lad 14 January 2016 22: 35 New
          0
          The first time I regretted the inability to put 100600 pluses! laughing hi And below I ask you to prompt the password on the move. belay
      2. Chatlanen
        Chatlanen 14 January 2016 17: 25 New
        0
        Quote: juborg
        Stupidly there is no oil, it should not start until it is poured, etc.

        Not so, but if tomorrow they didn’t bring oil to the battle. Better let it work for wear, but does its job.
        Quote: juborg
        Well, this is a tank, it should work in any conditions.

        (You contradict yourself) That's right, there is no antifreeze, oil, accumulator, gasoline - it should work anyway !!!, if possible without a solarium))
        By the way, is there at least an indicator (annoying) of oil level?
        1. Cynic
          Cynic 14 January 2016 21: 33 New
          0
          Quote: Chatlanen
          is there at least an indicator (annoying) of oil level?

          What for?
          [media = http: //ok.ru/video/41311865518? fromTime = 12]
      3. Sorokin
        Sorokin 14 January 2016 21: 29 New
        0
        A bit wrong. Technologically. Before you start you need to go through a bunch of instances.
    15. Maxom75
      Maxom75 14 January 2016 16: 10 New
      0
      it is necessary to teach better and explain to the soldier that negligence does not exempt from liability! Broke it will pay salary after service until it returns.
    16. pv1005
      pv1005 14 January 2016 16: 24 New
      0
      Quote: bmv04636
      it's time to stop the practice of putting conscripts behind the wheel.

      The tank has no steering wheel. belay
      1. Cynic
        Cynic 14 January 2016 16: 35 New
        +2
        Quote: pv1005
        The tank has no steering wheel.

        So scorching, that some that others
        1. sharp-lad
          sharp-lad 14 January 2016 22: 51 New
          0
          You are very cruel! smile
        2. pv1005
          pv1005 14 January 2016 23: 58 New
          0
          Quote: Cynic
          Quote: pv1005
          The tank has no steering wheel.

          So scorching, that some that others

          Are you sure that this is a tank and not a lighter armored object? The fact that there are many armored vehicles with GOMP I know. But do you know that this thing on them is called a steering wheel and not a steering wheel? Looks like no. hi
          1. Cynic
            Cynic 15 January 2016 12: 27 New
            0
            Quote: pv1005
            and not a lighter body armor?

            Uh-huh.
            One of the modifications of Leoperd.
            Their genetics is
            Quote: pv1005
            is this contraption called a steering wheel and not a steering wheel?

            Well, yes, and the wrong font was used when writing ?!
            Quote: pv1005
            Looks like no.

            Well, where do I need a sir and wretched.
        3. Max_Bauder
          Max_Bauder 15 January 2016 09: 11 New
          0
          and this is a BMP, with a bicycle wheel.
      2. Max_Bauder
        Max_Bauder 15 January 2016 09: 20 New
        +1
        Wheel / helm of the T-90 tank. Correctly KSUD (integrated tank movement control system).
        1. Cynic
          Cynic 15 January 2016 12: 39 New
          0
          Quote: Max_Bauder
          Steering wheel / helm

          In general, this may be a separate topic for discussion.
          And in life, pure casuistry
          Steering wheel. Steering wheel (Dutch: stuurwiel, from stuur - steering wheel and wiel - wheel)

          drinks
    17. max702
      max702 14 January 2016 17: 33 New
      -2
      Quote: bmv04636
      it's time to stop the practice of putting conscripts behind the wheel.

      What are you speaking about?? This is a holy cow! If, at the most important event of the last 10 years, the victory parade on new expensive and sophisticated equipment, our generals put conscript soldiers! as a result, shame at rehearsals .. on the one hand, it's okay. but on the other .. tell me what prevented the generals from planting the same contractors or testers as the plant suggested? I understand there is an iron pretext that conscripts are needed to mobilize (though if you imagine a conflict in which conscripts are needed, then somehow the Arctic fox with nuclear weapons looms, and then it will be clearly not up to them), BUT then why was this done? What place is the parade and mobilization? Especially on a new, unstudied technique? This case just perfectly shows the general’s attitude to the fulfillment of tasks in the army .. I don’t know what is the inertness of thinking, incompetence, or just stupidity .. I just can do this with this attitude .. everything and everything, regardless of the quality of personnel , the head must be turned on, and not stupidly taken under the visor ..
      1. Cynic
        Cynic 14 January 2016 18: 05 New
        0
        Quote: max702
        This case just perfectly shows the attitude of the general to

        spoiled, from my impunity and not respected by me, the media, blooders, and so on.
        So I hear that only super-specialists, of whom only a few can drive Armata! Etc.
        Say no?
        And what happened here in VO when they judged a stalled car at a parade rehearsal?
        Is everything dignified, noble?
        1. max702
          max702 14 January 2016 22: 29 New
          -1
          An example of the parade most clearly shows the attitude to solving problems in the army .. It is considered how? He gave the order and that’s all .. He will be fulfilled! Nobody says that superstars can drive the armature, but here is a special case, let's say you participate in some very important demonstration event on which your whole career depends and your subsequent life and you can’t screw up for example when showing new equipment! And what do you entrust the fulfillment of this task to a 18-year-old kid with experience of a couple of three months in his specialty, and with the technique that you will imagine he will generally have experience for a month on his strength? Will you do exactly that? Or attract proven and truly experienced professionals? Something tells me that the 18th boys will not be close there .. And tell me, why did our valiant generals (and the decision on the participation of conscripts obviously didn’t make a fuss) did not think so? I repeat, inertness of thinking, incompetence, and dullness .. The same applies to the maintenance of equipment in this article, the same rake, instead of specialists well trained and trained, an order was given to service the equipment! And the details are not important! That should be all! The result of the article, huge financial losses and a decrease in combat readiness .. Alas, this is an old trouble for us, since airplanes worth tens of millions of dollars stand in the open air and it’s impossible to build cheap hangars, and multibillion-dollar ships on raids because they didn’t bother again penny coastal infrastructure compared to the cost of ships (Au ... Ural and nuclear submarine Lira ..) then you can never talk about tanks and other armored vehicles, our army is state-owned and everything in it is state-owned. Broken Could not repair well and to hell with it, they will buy a new one ..
    18. Nick
      Nick 14 January 2016 19: 35 New
      +1
      Quote: bmv04636
      it's time to stop the practice of putting conscripts behind the wheel.

      And here conscripts "behind the wheel." Judging by the article, all problems are in maintenance. The author may correctly pose the question, but to say that the army does not know how to operate tanks is simply stupid. Now in service with the Russian army is approximately 16 000 tanks. For any, a dozen others fail due to negligent operation, that is, 0,1-0,2% of the total number of tanks. Minuscule. This does not mean at all that our army does not know how to operate tanks. Nonsense is utterly simple. Posted by m-duck. Article minus.
    19. evge-malyshev
      evge-malyshev 14 January 2016 21: 17 New
      0
      Quote: bmv04636
      it's time to stop the practice of putting conscripts behind the wheel.


      It's not about conscripts, but about technology. In aviation, for example, technology is being developed "foolishly." If it’s very simple, without going into details, then not a single failure of the equipment should lead to the failure to fulfill the task. Not to mention the exclusion of danger to the life of the crew.
    20. gunya
      gunya 14 January 2016 21: 33 New
      0
      It’s high time to learn how to properly, and if you understand, then Kntraktniki are often engaged in “fucking” - maybe a ride!
  2. gergi
    gergi 14 January 2016 14: 23 New
    +6
    When there is no oil in the head, it will not be in the tank either. There is nothing about the article. Everything breaks and everything breaks. Blah blah!
    1. NEXUS
      NEXUS 14 January 2016 14: 36 New
      16
      Quote: gergi
      When there is no oil in the head, it will not be in the tank either. There is nothing about the article. Everything breaks and everything breaks. Blah blah!

      Tanks and military equipment in general are breaking down everywhere, not only in the Russian army, and in Germany and in the USA and China ... My master often said:If an employee does work through the rectum (he spoke more clearly with the use of idiomatic turns), then the mentor explained everything to him there, and therefore this is a mistake for the mentor.You just don’t just have to engage in sound proctology in the army, and then there will be several times fewer cases of mediocre attitude and the use of technology.
      1. Baloo_bst
        Baloo_bst 14 January 2016 15: 31 New
        +8
        Yes, not only in the army this is happening. Now drivers with 20 years of experience do not know how to raise the cab and where the probe is located. Manually fly the wheel - this is the top of skill. Accustomed to do everything at the service station. And this is a penny and not small.
        And at the service station the same picture. Recently, in the oil change center, oil has been changed. It seems that everything is simple - the old was merged, the new was flooded. No, the old one was leaked, and the new one was flooded by the very caromys. It’s good that they noticed and did not start the engine.
        So it’s not the army. The army is a section of society, there are the same problems as in civilian life.
      2. tundra
        tundra 14 January 2016 16: 56 New
        +3
        My wife’s relative just worked on these issues at UVZ, so he still said in Soviet times (though not loudly) that it’s not like soldiers or officers would have to take their hands off for incompetence. And he knew what he said back in those days, traveled all over the union and also Syria, Iraq, Yugoslavia, Finland, and completed two terms in India under the T90 program.
  3. Primus pilus
    Primus pilus 14 January 2016 14: 23 New
    -1
    The driver should be a contractor.
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 14 January 2016 14: 30 New
      40
      Not a fact, before conscripts coped. But the service life needs to be increased, nothing can be taught in a year.
      In the video, the ensign teaches the drivers of the subtleties of driving, and they laugh like sheep. But in battle, these nuances will save their lives. I ask modders not to judge strictly for the video.
      1. Sorokin
        Sorokin 14 January 2016 14: 47 New
        0
        Why are you apologizing for that. You can’t cure goats who drank from the track. And military representatives went hunting as they would. Beeeez lawyers.
        1. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 14 January 2016 14: 50 New
          +2
          Quote: Sorokin
          Why are you apologizing

          For linguistic excesses of video content. laughing
          1. Dembel77
            Dembel77 14 January 2016 15: 24 New
            +8
            After all, there are only men in the army, why be ashamed of something. Great and mighty comes better. But seriously, I think - the more complex the technique, the longer the training period. This is logical. Everything else is lyrics.
            1. Ingvar 72
              Ingvar 72 14 January 2016 15: 35 New
              +1
              Quote: Dembel 77
              the more complex the technique, the longer the training period

              In theory, yes, but on Armata, on the contrary, they say that they will teach anyone within 3 months. There is a control panel like on a tablet. I do not know how this is true. request
              1. pv1005
                pv1005 14 January 2016 16: 52 New
                +2
                Quote: Ingvar 72
                Quote: Dembel 77
                the more complex the technique, the longer the training period

                In theory, yes, but on Armata, on the contrary, they say that they will teach anyone within 3 months. There is a control panel like on a tablet. I do not know how this is true. request

                Unfortunately, the control panel (albeit as on a tablet) will not replace the brains of a mechanical plant. In a driving school of "stupid blondes and blondes", too, for three months they are taught to ride in a second gear in a straight line. repeat What do they do on the roads then, I hope you don’t need to tell?
                To teach in three months to ride (namely to ride) on a training track on a training tank is not great wisdom. But to teach correctly and correctly EXPLOIT the technique, in various conditions, for three months (and for a year of military service) of muscle walkers and USE victims this is still a task, consider it impossible.
          2. tolancop
            tolancop 15 January 2016 00: 58 New
            +1
            This is not a linguistic surplus, it is an intelligible presentation of the material. I do not quiver. Surely, the mechanics of water were told in literary language how they should act ... It didn’t reach .. What remains to be done? The only way. AND REACH !!!
      2. tol100v
        tol100v 14 January 2016 15: 35 New
        +4
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        But in battle, these nuances will save their lives.

        The Zapashny brothers are resting in this circus! A warrant officer - well done!
      3. pv1005
        pv1005 14 January 2016 16: 54 New
        +1
        Quickly, shortly, and most importantly, it is SUFFICIENT. laughing
      4. sharp-lad
        sharp-lad 14 January 2016 23: 01 New
        +1
        I had Prapor in a training course where I studied electrician and learned !, past Afghanistan, who was sick to the head, but we, the whole company, began to respect him, so that he would not get up, his desire to see us alive and healthy was felt! I can imagine that he dreamed every night.
  4. Magic archer
    Magic archer 14 January 2016 14: 25 New
    +2
    And it’s not only the tanks that concern. I was watching criminal news. There somewhere in the Urals, the tankers went straight to the vodka store from the tankodrome! As a result, they didn’t fit into the turn and demolished the corner of the house. Checking this fact showed that everyone was drunk before store and there they were driving for the supplement! So discipline is also lame!
  5. oldseaman1957
    oldseaman1957 14 January 2016 14: 26 New
    11
    “One thing is clear - the training system for tank crews, and, most importantly, it’s time for us to change the operation of tanks.” - Exactly !!! Do not add oil to the gearbox, in order to at least otmazatsya from the testers, you need to be pretty oak!
    1. MIKHAN
      MIKHAN 14 January 2016 14: 32 New
      +1
      Quote: oldseaman1957
      “One thing is clear - the training system for tank crews, and, most importantly, it’s time for us to change the operation of tanks.” - Exactly !!! Do not add oil to the gearbox, in order to at least otmazatsya from the testers, you need to be pretty oak!

      In the American or Israeli way ..? Do not drive the comrade! All Armies have problems ... But you forgot, our tanks liberated half of Europe .... And now they can too, "courage" remained, as if the West had spread rot!
      1. oldseaman1957
        oldseaman1957 14 January 2016 15: 10 New
        +3
        Quote: MIKHAN
        But you forgot, our tanks freed half of Europe ....
        - What courage, first of all, you need to learn and love technique! The life of the crew depends on this, as well as the performance of a combat mission!
        1. MIKHAN
          MIKHAN 14 January 2016 15: 12 New
          +1
          Quote: oldseaman1957
          Quote: MIKHAN
          But you forgot, our tanks freed half of Europe ....
          - What courage, first of all, you need to learn and love technique! The life of the crew depends on this, as well as the performance of a combat mission!

          Do you believe this little article ...?
    2. Yura
      Yura 14 January 2016 15: 04 New
      +7
      Quote: oldseaman1957
      Do not add oil to the gearbox, in order to at least otmazatsya from the testers, you need to be pretty oak!

      And then sorry, any tactorist opening the box and looking at the blue gears and bearings will understand that they are trying to hang noodles over his ears with this overflowing oil. And it is good if the inspector is not offended that he is taken for an idiot.
    3. Chatlanen
      Chatlanen 14 January 2016 17: 44 New
      +1
      Quote: oldseaman1957
      “One thing is clear - the training system for tank crews, and, most importantly, it’s time for us to change the operation of tanks.” - Exactly !!! Do not add oil to the gearbox, in order to at least otmazatsya from the testers, you need to be pretty oak!

      Be careful)) People have BUSINESS here !! I will sell fuels and lubricants inexpensively)).
  6. gray_angel
    gray_angel 14 January 2016 14: 28 New
    0
    “But let's hope that by the time the Armata production of T-14 serial tanks arrives, at least something will change ...” - we hope that the crew of such tanks should be as professional as the Su-24,34 in Syria.
    1. just exp
      just exp 14 January 2016 14: 37 New
      +7
      Do not confuse tank crews with pilots, tank crews conscripts are commonplace, and a pilot is not an officer this is fantastic.
      1. Extraneous
        Extraneous 14 January 2016 15: 13 New
        0
        You’ll definitely not be able to land on the armature of the conscript. This technique is for professionals only.
      2. NEXUS
        NEXUS 14 January 2016 17: 57 New
        +3
        Quote: just EXPL
        Do not confuse tank crews with pilots, tank crews conscripts are commonplace, and a pilot is not an officer this is fantastic.

        To raise morale laughing
        1. Kars
          Kars 14 January 2016 18: 06 New
          +3
          I don’t play it myself. But I was shocked how everything was running)))))))))
          searching results
          The husband plays tanks - zadolbalo !!!! | forum Woman.ru
          My husband plays tanks. What to do? - LGlive .ru

          I did not think that such a problem (((
          1. Cynic
            Cynic 14 January 2016 18: 22 New
            +1
            Quote: Kars
            I did not think that such a problem (((

          2. Ingvar 72
            Ingvar 72 14 January 2016 19: 29 New
            0
            Quote: Kars
            My husband plays tanks. What to do? - LGlive .ru

            I know one, "left" often from her husband, "tanker", of course computer. laughing
        2. TOR2
          TOR2 14 January 2016 22: 31 New
          +1
          Quote: NEXUS
          To raise morale

          Overpressure is created inside the tank, where such an opportunity is not terrible. laughing
          1. pv1005
            pv1005 15 January 2016 00: 03 New
            0
            Quote: TOR2
            Quote: NEXUS
            To raise morale

            Overpressure is created inside the tank, where such an opportunity is not terrible. laughing

            Actually, the EXCESS was always created.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  7. Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 14 January 2016 14: 30 New
    14
    The life of a Russian tanker is hard and unpretentious. Well, the technique breaks. Yes, we must protect, cherish and cherish it. And check the oil in the boxes - according to the regulations. And ask the commander with Zampotech to hide the skin. And that will be ignoramuses in our army. I recall that last year there was an outbreak of flight accidents related, I believe, to a sharply increased flight intensity. But they did it! Tanks just do not fall from the sky, but the same technique. Look, the Chinese were preparing their tanks for biathlon - how many breakdowns were there?
    1. Evgen_Vasilich
      Evgen_Vasilich 14 January 2016 15: 18 New
      +5
      Zampotech’s mouth ended as a class under the previous Minister of Defense. Now the senior technicians of the company, apparently in those companies in which the aforementioned machines were operated, are simply enchanting Lavrov.zhpg ...
      1. Nehist
        Nehist 14 January 2016 16: 07 New
        +1
        Speak the truth dear!
  8. mpzss
    mpzss 14 January 2016 14: 34 New
    +3
    I didn’t understand, if a mess happened suddenly (God forbid!), then the UVZ specialists will go to the front line after each tank breakdown? What kind of debelism !? Why can't they send YOUR servants to the Armed Forces !?
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 14 January 2016 15: 37 New
      +4
      Quote: mpzss
      I didn’t understand, if a mess happened (God forbid!), then the UVZ specialists will go to the front line after each tank breakdown? What a debelism!

      Read carefully:
      The warranty period for the product is set for 10 years.

      Tanks at the time of failure were under warranty from the manufacturer. And UVZ was obliged to send a representative in case of breakdown during the warranty period. And also perform warranty repairs on your own.
  9. Uncle lee
    Uncle lee 14 January 2016 14: 34 New
    +7
    Tankers were taught in military unit 12908 of Bikin, and before that they were taught by drivers in military unit 11011, then there were specialists! soldier
    1. ingenera
      ingenera 14 January 2016 16: 12 New
      +2
      ABOUT! And I studied at Bikin! November 1971 - April 1972 With the operation of technology strictly then it was.
      1. Uncle lee
        Uncle lee 15 January 2016 07: 53 New
        +4
        Did Valera Bordei not serve you?
  10. maestro123
    maestro123 14 January 2016 14: 36 New
    +1
    This is due to both the complexity of the new technology and its high cost. I wrote about this in my blog more than once. But let's hope that by the time the T-14 Armata serial tanks arrive in the army, at least something will change ...


    Quote: bmv04636
    it's time to stop the practice of putting conscripts behind the wheel.


    I can imagine what will happen to the tanks if they put reservists on them ...
    1. MIKHAN
      MIKHAN 14 January 2016 14: 49 New
      +7
      Quote: maestro123
      This is due to both the complexity of the new technology and its high cost. I wrote about this in my blog more than once. But let's hope that by the time the T-14 Armata serial tanks arrive in the army, at least something will change ...


      Quote: bmv04636
      it's time to stop the practice of putting conscripts behind the wheel.


      I can imagine what will happen to the tanks if they put reservists on them ...

      Everything will be as usual ... I can smell genes!
      1. Alexey RA
        Alexey RA 14 January 2016 16: 10 New
        +1
        Quote: MIKHAN
        Everything will be as usual ... I can smell genes!

        God forbid, as always.
        15.7.41 in the area of ​​altitude 66.6 (MULYUSILTA) 8 tanks under the command of ml. lieutenant K. followed to the area of ​​the 7th rifle company of the 65th rifle regiment for further joint action. No intelligence or direct guard was sent. The company commander did not know the location of the enemy, as a result of which he came up with a column at a distance of 70 meters from the front edge of the enemy’s defense, where the enemy’s anti-aircraft defense was shot at point-blank range. Lost 6 tanks.

        On 29.7.41, a company consisting of 16 T-26 tanks operated in the infantry support group with the 402nd Infantry Regiment of the 168th Infantry Division in the HARVIKONGOE area. The terrain allowed tanks to act only on the roads. The tanks, advancing in the forest, strayed from the direction - got lost. As a result of the battle, 8 tanks were left on the battlefield ...

        With the beginning of the offensive in the morning of 18.8, consisting of 10 tanks, the battalion ... advanced to s. Veriavino. When moving tanks from s. Veryavino in with. Kazenki, the column was attacked by aircraft. There was no place for shelter nearby. There was still a way forward to the forest occupied by the enemy, and after an hour's drive in an open area the enemy was attacked by 9 tanks (one tank was sent to the regiment commander for communication ...) Of the 9 tanks, 7 broke into the enemy’s location, one was hit by a VET gun and burned with. Grigorovo, one fell into a funnel (the car commander was seriously wounded). The commissar of the battalion was in his tank with the commander of the battalion, Captain K., and bursting into the forest occupied by the enemy, they were shot from a distance of 30-40 meters with a PTO cannon. At the same time, the commander of the battalion, Captain K., was killed and a driver was injured, who by the morning of 19.8 passed through the enemy front line. The remaining 6 tanks were missing
      2. maganaskan91
        maganaskan91 14 January 2016 18: 16 New
        0
        Quote: MIKHAN
        Quote: maestro123
        This is due to both the complexity of the new technology and its high cost. I wrote about this in my blog more than once. But let's hope that by the time the T-14 Armata serial tanks arrive in the army, at least something will change ...


        Quote: bmv04636
        it's time to stop the practice of putting conscripts behind the wheel.


        I can imagine what will happen to the tanks if they put reservists on them ...

        Everything will be as usual ... I can smell genes!

        1.33. The fighter hit the head with a log so he nearly fell over. But the handsome survived laughing
  11. Dam
    Dam 14 January 2016 14: 36 New
    +6
    Iron always breaks, and no one canceled idiots in any army in the world.
    1. Amurets
      Amurets 14 January 2016 16: 52 New
      +1
      Quote: Damm
      Iron always breaks, and no one canceled idiots in any army in the world.

      I studied at DOSAAF as my electro-mechanic at DES, studied for 6 months, 8 hours a week, and the times were hard. The army switched to 2 years of service, and then there was a mess with China. They called in May 1969. Believe it or not, I’ve been called up to military service on 12.05.1969/30.051969/03.07.1969. I took the oath of office on 10/90/700. I got permission to independently manage on XNUMX/XNUMX/XNUMX and a month and a half later left for KapYar for new equipment. And since then my whole life has been connected with ICE and sometimes with DES. And what is written in the article is a common lawsuit between the factory and the operator. I liked working with the Germans and the Japanese. There was a short conversation, and this is a citizen, not an army. If you call a large representative, and more often it happened, you change the unit or assembly to a spare one and send it to the representative office, with a description of the breakdown. After XNUMX days, the answer comes, did they accept the complaint or not and if they did not accept the reason for the delay, in XNUMX% the company usually took responsibility The rest usually sent a representative, and since our region was closed to foreigners, they went to Khabarovsk and we resolved all issues at the base of the representative office. Well, with our representatives, it’s a matter of honor who fuses this marriage. But to be honest half of the claims were justified, half of the disruption of operation. And I do not believe that the connecting rod assembly was destroyed due to the fault of the operators, there was pure fault of the plant, oil did not enter the lower head of the connecting rod, from which the bearings of the main and trailed connecting rods and delirium about the fuel were destroyed. an example when KAMAZ passed XNUMX kilometers on a mixture of gasoline and diesel fuel. The wine was a gas station, the fuel was mixed there. So the heads burned out, the piston and VT failed VD, but not a single bearing burned down or collapsed.
  12. kit-kat
    kit-kat 14 January 2016 14: 36 New
    +7
    It seems that routine maintenance was not carried out or was carried out only on paper. It’s not a matter of who sits behind the levers - whether the contractor is a conscript, the matter is how the technical work is carried out. And the unit commander is primarily responsible for this. And conscripts are not only possible, but also need to be put at the helm. How are you going to ensure the literacy and training of the soldiers, if you do not trust them with technology?
  13. Ezhaak
    Ezhaak 14 January 2016 14: 37 New
    +1
    But the inability to use technology in the army is really present. And with it indifference and pohrenizm. That's where tolerance has rummaged!
    1. Ingvar 72
      Ingvar 72 14 January 2016 15: 00 New
      0
      Marriage is the same, military equipment is no exception. Everyone is trying to blame the other. hi
      1. Ezhaak
        Ezhaak 14 January 2016 16: 28 New
        +1
        Quote: Ingvar 72
        Marriage is the same, military equipment is no exception.

        If I had no practice in production and had no business with military acceptance, then perhaps I would agree with your statements. And so, I’ll say that this is likely only with products from subcontractors. Moreover, the marriage is not explicit.
  14. Indifferent
    Indifferent 14 January 2016 14: 38 New
    12
    I don't know anything about tanks. But I know the submarine fleet well. There is a schedule of routine maintenance. What do we have published a book where everything is painted. What is done daily, weekly, monthly, after 2000 hours of work and after 10 hours of work.
    There was a journal in which all entries on instruments and mechanisms were made. Each specialist, during the cranking of weapons and technical equipment that was carried out every morning, had to conduct an inspection and, if necessary, routine maintenance, and record everything in a journal. And the chief or commander of the warhead checked this magazine and removed the “shavings” from the negligent.
    Accordingly, the failure to perform any work was ruled out. Therefore, I do not remember all the time that somewhere the level of oil or hydraulics was not the same or something fell off and was not screwed on.
    There was a case, in a hurry to enter the military service and without warming up the turbine, we scrolled it. They lifted the bearing and everything was left without a turbine. Well there were two of them. I had to return from the Indian Ocean on one turbine. But this is the only case that I remember.
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 14 January 2016 14: 51 New
      +3
      Quote: indifferent
      But I know the submarine fleet well.

      This is still different, the greater the likelihood of the arrival of the polar fox due to equipment failure, the greater the requirements for its maintenance and operation. On the submarine, a serious accident and 50-150 people to the bottom, aircraft malfunction, also with a high degree of probability will end badly. The box broke on the tank in peacetime, well, the tank got up, and that’s all. Therefore, gouging is many times more, forgive me the tank crews.
    2. Stirbjorn
      Stirbjorn 14 January 2016 14: 53 New
      +2
      Submarines are still piece goods, plus the very specifics of the service. If the engine crashes underwater, you won’t jump out of it like you would from a tank.
    3. Cynic
      Cynic 14 January 2016 15: 05 New
      +6
      Quote: indifferent
      I don't know anything about tanks. But I know the submarine fleet well. There is a schedule of routine maintenance.

      Do you think for equipment in the troops differently? Article on the fool and PR.

      What I remember from the past, but it was different, then the recognition of the OPERATIONAL reason is nonsense! This has never happened! Now yes, new times.
      Once, the military representative signed, something similar, in his youth and inexperience. The conclusion was returned halfway up! Rewrote ...
      Of course, there were production and design problems, but with multiple 100% control of parts and assemblies, running in the product, everything was fixed and solved.
    4. Sailor
      Sailor 14 January 2016 15: 10 New
      +4
      I served on a ship, and we had scheduled work like yours, but since then much has changed and the army is not a fleet, but if this happens, it means the fault of the officers who must monitor the strict implementation of the work.
    5. Evgen_Vasilich
      Evgen_Vasilich 14 January 2016 15: 22 New
      +4
      There is an instruction manual, you need to know it and fulfill its position as our Father and there will be happiness! and if you do everything "get rid of" - then such jambs come out!
  15. Sharapov
    Sharapov 14 January 2016 14: 38 New
    +6
    Very often the human factor affects. In my memory, during the training deployment of the tank regiment of the reserve units of the OUTs KVO (Desna town, Chernihiv region) in 1989, three T-3s were ruined during two days of training firing. All damage - damage to the trunk. Once - the fur of the waters kept the tower key in the trunk, 64 times - scooped up dirt. Everybody is alive. And the tankers neighbors overheated the engines - this is a common thing ...
    However, the witness of the failure of the box on the 2S3 self-propelled guns - after cap. repair on the march from the unloading station. By the way, the box was sent to Riga with a complaint - a new one returned - in those days, the 2C3 chassis was repaired there. Right now I’ve printed it, it’s as if everything was happening on another planet ....
  16. Mikhail Krapivin
    Mikhail Krapivin 14 January 2016 14: 39 New
    14
    Well, why is this all? Article do I mean? Well, they ruined the gearbox from savagery, lack of culture and Rassian laziness, I didn’t want to climb someone, check the oil level. And someone did not follow this, did not control the execution. Under the USSR, the Ministry of Defense would pay for the repair, someone would be given a cradle for the joint, someone would be reprimanded in the chest, someone would be demoted, someone would be fired. And everything would be clear to everyone, proper conclusions would be made. And now - squeals, squeals, trial, shame, as a result, the Ministry of Defense still pays for the repair, but no one understood anything and the sediments, or rather, the siege remained.
    1. Cynic
      Cynic 14 January 2016 15: 11 New
      +1
      Quote: Mikhail Krapivin
      Under the USSR, the Ministry of Defense paid ...

      Yeah. You said and everyone believed, except for those who cooked in this mess.
      Quote: Cynic
      from the former, but it was different, the recognition of the reasons for OPERATIONAL, this is nonsense! This has never happened!

      laughing
    2. KVIRTU
      KVIRTU 14 January 2016 15: 17 New
      +1
      I don’t understand another thing: the product is under warranty, the manufacturer made the repair again, warranty, i.e. in fact of the repair itself acknowledged the complaint, and then to the court?
      So it was necessary not to repair for free, to demand an investigation, etc., if you are sure that the case is not a guarantee. Gee.
      But they didn’t figure it out on the spot, restored it to the unit, then, after half a year, they concocted the act, the oils were supposedly low ...
      1. Cynic
        Cynic 14 January 2016 16: 07 New
        +1
        Quote: KVIRTU
        I do not understand another

        Is it really that hard?
        A tank is a BATTLE machine, it must be in working condition. First of all, the tank itself, as a product, is under warranty.
        And the distribution of the well-deserved, this is only later, after debriefing.
  17. megadeth
    megadeth 14 January 2016 14: 42 New
    +5
    Who, why this article, do we have the last tank or something?
    1. MIKHAN
      MIKHAN 14 January 2016 15: 04 New
      +1
      Quote: megadeth
      Who, why this article, do we have the last tank or something?

      Whining begins simply and all .. Oil is falling in price, but what remains of Russia? Army and Navy! Now they will begin to spread rot, as usual .... * (they still do not touch the cosmos, nothing falls, after the sanctions .. hehe) But I think soon there will be a provocation .. hi
  18. Hydrograph
    Hydrograph 14 January 2016 14: 43 New
    +4
    Not only soldiers are to blame. Fish from the head .....! It is necessary to ask commanders fathers. A private trader for a ride without oil would have worked for a full money Zampotech?
    1. KBR109
      KBR109 14 January 2016 15: 11 New
      +2
      In an article in one of the episodes “the deputy head of the Lieutenant’s deputy ...” slipped by. This also says something. It is possible a year after school. Not enough mid-level officers or a furry foot for growth?
  19. Sharapov
    Sharapov 14 January 2016 14: 45 New
    0
    Quote: mishastich
    The author is right, it is necessary to change the methodology itself, or rather, to understand its shortcomings. Why are UVZ specialists traveling across the country? Why it is impossible to carry out repairs in the PDP? Why is there no stock of parts?

    Everything is very simple - the part makes a warranty claim to the manufacturer, with which the latter does not agree. A lot of money is at stake - the one who is to blame pays.
  20. Corsair0304
    Corsair0304 14 January 2016 14: 48 New
    +3
    The article is frankly so-so. While I got through all the technical and legal formulations to the words of the conclusion, I almost broke my eyes.
    Conscripts need to be seized by leverage only when they are ready for this - this is a common truth. Iron breaks, breaks and will break - this is also a common truth, no matter how well the water drivers were prepared in the training. The operating conditions in our country are extremely far from ideal, you can list a lot, from natural weather conditions to supplies in the part of spare parts, consumables and so on. So I don’t see anything terrible in that, and the title of the article that I consider our tank oaks unreasonable.
    Appeals to the arbitration court are just not clear to me. Arbitration means only that the parties on the spot cannot agree on the fact of a breakdown, but this is really sad.
  21. kapitan92
    kapitan92 14 January 2016 14: 48 New
    +8
    Quote: Primus Pilus
    The driver should be a contractor.

    I agree with you! Previously, in the mechanized units, they tried to call the boys with certain skills and attitude to technology. In 88, I had a “white hundred,” the so-called company equipped with soldiers from Russia, Ukraine, Belarus, mainly patriots from the villages. They did not have to explain what a diesel engine, sloth or friction clutch is. In 89th Mutalibov, the then 1st Central Committee nickname Az of the USSR, issued a decree that the "local" would serve only in the republic. The problems started right away, 25-30% of the equipment remained in the park, and then things went even worse.
    The problem is more global than it seems to us. The technique is more complicated, and the level of training of recruiting boys is falling. But shouldn't the gunner’s operator be a contractor?
    In my opinion: it is necessary to increase the service life and quality of preparation, or switch to 100% of contractors.
    There are many “generals” at the top, more likely they know better !?
  22. Denis Obukhov
    Denis Obukhov 14 January 2016 14: 50 New
    +8
    Whatever it was, the mechanic MUST make sure that all operating fluids and oil levels are present before starting.
    Automation is just an extra reserve from the fool. And all because drivers do not care about the state of the equipment that they operate, since no one is punished: neither material nor any other.

    I propose that for equipment breakdowns due to negligence, those guilty of introducing "administrative punishment", as in the Airborne Trooper I am sure, the accident rate will go down sharply.
  23. fa2998
    fa2998 14 January 2016 14: 51 New
    +3
    Quote: An64
    Quote: bmv04636
    it's time to stop the practice of driving conscripts

    Conscripts sit behind the LEVER of tanks as long as these vehicles exist ...
    But to revive at the proper level technical support, the responsibility of officials to control the technical condition of equipment - this, indeed, is the time.

    There is such a post-Zampotech (battalion, regiment). So you don’t need to drink vodka, but climb on the entrusted technique, and drive the mechanized water guides and lower-ranking commanders. Everything can be broken, everything is written down there, from 1 to there I don’t know what .. hi
    1. pv1005
      pv1005 14 January 2016 17: 12 New
      +2
      Quote: fa2998
      Quote: An64
      Quote: bmv04636
      it's time to stop the practice of driving conscripts

      Conscripts sit behind the LEVER of tanks as long as these vehicles exist ...
      But to revive at the proper level technical support, the responsibility of officials to control the technical condition of equipment - this, indeed, is the time.

      There is such a post-Zampotech (battalion, regiment). So you don’t need to drink vodka, but climb on the entrusted technique, and drive the mechanized water guides and lower-ranking commanders. Everything can be broken, everything is written down there, from 1 to there I don’t know what .. hi

      One Zampotech without the repair bodies of the battalion, regiment, division (brigade) will do nothing. And thanks to the stool, the remorgan in the troops was destroyed as a class.
      And do you apologize for drinking vodka with Zampotech, or did you make a mistake for the sake of a red word? hi
  24. Cobra77
    Cobra77 14 January 2016 14: 53 New
    +1
    Quote: Samurai3X
    In the case of a grandiose noon, no conscripts will save. Here we are no longer looking at each other with artillery and aviation, as in World War II, but with ICBMs.


    Well, why is always exclusively considered Armageddon? The presence of nuclear weapons does not guarantee the absence of a major military conflict in the territory of a third country (for example, a neighboring one) involving a large number of troops from both sides. When the use of nuclear weapons is risky and excessive. When there is no direct threat to the integrity of the country. Releasing a nuclear genie is difficult to push it back. Everyone understands this. Therefore, to use even tactical charges in a conflict that does not occur on its territory is stupid.
  25. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 14 January 2016 14: 56 New
    +9
    It’s always more amazing for me how dear
    military equipment is stored in Russia under the open sky.
    And this is with frequent rains and snowfalls.
    A tank costs millions of dollars, a combat aircraft costs tens of millions.
    What is so difficult to build indoor hangars with ventilation, approximate
    temperature support is not above-below critical?
    Make normal storage (and preservation too).

    This will save billions.
    1. KBR109
      KBR109 14 January 2016 15: 15 New
      +8
      Gorshkolepov was arrested - have you heard? 45 million = 8 years. He stole less - he sat down quickly and longer than a basil. Well, neither Zubkov nor Medvedeva is related ... Here are the heated boxes - in the same place ... in the vagina.
    2. pv1005
      pv1005 14 January 2016 17: 13 New
      +1
      Quote: voyaka uh
      It’s always more amazing for me how dear
      military equipment is stored in Russia under the open sky.
      And this is with frequent rains and snowfalls.
      A tank costs millions of dollars, a combat aircraft costs tens of millions.
      What is so difficult to build indoor hangars with ventilation, approximate
      temperature support is not above-below critical?
      Make normal storage (and preservation too).

      This will save billions.

      There is nothing to cover, except for obscene material, the problem with storage of VVST is 100%. hi
  26. chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 14 January 2016 14: 57 New
    +2
    The story with a guarantee from the manufacturer is pure nonsense, there is no CTP in the troops, at whose expense is the banquet? The manufacturer can not at all track what is happening with the equipment, how it is being operated. All this circus will only lead to the fact that the manufacturer will begin to include in the price of the tank 100% "warranty service". And in the case of the database? They will bring a burned tank and say - "please change under warranty"?
    The manufacturer passed it, accepted it, then everything should be in the hands of the military. If overhaul at the factory is needed, it is paid by a special order. They came up with some sort of regular reformist fabulousness, and now ordinary people now have e..sya with bossy fantasies.
    1. pv1005
      pv1005 14 January 2016 17: 16 New
      0
      Quote: chunga-changa
      The story with a guarantee from the manufacturer is pure nonsense, there is no CTP in the troops, at whose expense is the banquet? The manufacturer can not at all track what is happening with the equipment, how it is being operated. All this circus will only lead to the fact that the manufacturer will begin to include in the price of the tank 100% "warranty service". And in the case of the database? They will bring a burned tank and say - "please change under warranty"?
      The manufacturer passed it, accepted it, then everything should be in the hands of the military. If overhaul at the factory is needed, it is paid by a special order. They came up with some sort of regular reformist fabulousness, and now ordinary people now have e..sya with bossy fantasies.

      Dear you, to begin with, understand the topic, it is best from the inside i.e. Serve as a Zampotech for a couple of years, and then fling thunder and lightning.
  27. vit8180
    vit8180 14 January 2016 14: 58 New
    -1
    And for what, interestingly, exactly a year ago, minuses were collected?
    "
    vit8180 RU  January 13, 2015 20:55 | American magazine: US should be afraid of 5 types of weapons of the Russian Federation


    Well, yes, the technique in the hands of the savage is a piece of metal !!!
  28. Batia
    Batia 14 January 2016 15: 01 New
    +5
    Robyat! Reclamation work during technical operation, this is one of the little points. No need to make a tragedy out of this. In all types and sorts of troops it is conducted. Zampotechs will understand me. And without breakdowns you will not teach the mechanic to operate the equipment. I am a technician signalman, and wrote complaints be healthy. Most of them were made by manufacturers. Part repaired themselves, and even warranty. Who will tell me how to teach a mechanic, not allowing him to use technology? There are no miracles.
    1. pv1005
      pv1005 14 January 2016 17: 18 New
      0
      Quote: Batia
      Robyat! Reclamation work during technical operation, this is one of the little points. No need to make a tragedy out of this. In all types and sorts of troops it is conducted. Zampotechs will understand me. And without breakdowns you will not teach the mechanic to operate the equipment. I am a technician signalman, and wrote complaints be healthy. Most of them were made by manufacturers. Part repaired themselves, and even warranty. Who will tell me how to teach a mechanic, not allowing him to use technology? There are no miracles.

      That’s the problem, here about 80% of people who are thundering and thunderbolt have no idea about the system of military repair and maintenance. hi
    2. Amurets
      Amurets 14 January 2016 18: 33 New
      0
      Quote: Batia
      Who will tell me how to teach a mechanic, not allowing him to use technology? There are no miracles.

      Elementary. According to posters. Now it’s even taught at institutes. I wouldn’t believe it if I hadn’t encountered such engineers myself. More precisely, the graduates came. On one of the combines, the engine stopped developing power. Well, it's common, change the filter and blow the intakes. So what was the surprise of this engineer when I turned off the fuel supply nozzle with a microfilter from the computer. Nobody in five years of studying about it said, because this filter was not on the ancient scheme.
  29. kostyan77708
    kostyan77708 14 January 2016 15: 01 New
    +3
    Quote: Ingvar 72
    Not a fact, before conscripts coped. But the service life needs to be increased, nothing can be taught in a year.
    In the video, the ensign teaches the drivers of the subtleties of driving, and they laugh like sheep. But in battle, these nuances will save their lives. I ask modders not to judge strictly for the video.

    The first tank on the left apparently drove laughing boots 56 size)))
  30. vandarus
    vandarus 14 January 2016 15: 02 New
    +1
    The court makes a decision on the basis of documents submitted by the parties. Acceptance or denial of claims may also be of a procedural nature (for example: violation of the claims procedure, which was considered mandatory).
    The defendant is the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation and the V / H-refusal of the court in ud. lawsuit. requirements due to the failure to identify a specific person who caused the harm unjustified and illegal and is subject to cancellation. There are appeals and cassation instances for this.
  31. raid14
    raid14 14 January 2016 15: 02 New
    +1
    Reason, sloppiness of the mechanic’s drive, oversight of the tank commander and deputy head of technology.
  32. Belarus
    Belarus 14 January 2016 15: 04 New
    +1
    Why just now started to discuss this problem? Really, until no one has run across the edge, has anyone seen this? Everyone knows and understands that this problem arose not yesterday but a long time ago. Does the leadership really not understand the existing problem?
    Although for the sake of fairness it should be noted that after Serdyukov’s rule there is so much mess that it will take a very long time to rake. But the most important thing is to determine priorities.
  33. yuriy55
    yuriy55 14 January 2016 15: 05 New
    +5
    Of course, the soldier is not to blame (driver). Before you get into a battle tank for a guarantee, it must be trained in training. He is responsible for the technical condition of the company technician and the deputy head of the battalion. If you didn’t add oil to the box due to neglected maintenance, one reason, and if this oil simply wasn’t there, another ...
    It is necessary to change the attitude to the service and educate the commanders themselves, who, perhaps, themselves are poorly trained in technical terms and knowledge of the materiel. The soldier will do everything that the commander orders him if he knows how to do it. And, if explained through the blood-mother, then there will be no sense.
    The manner of communication between commanders and subordinates must be changed in such a way that everyone in the army family should not see in their comrades not “years”, but true friends, with whom it will be necessary to share all the burdens and joys in one trench in one trench ...
  34. Maksim
    Maksim 14 January 2016 15: 05 New
    +3
    Not special in tanks, but put the oil sensor in the box of the latest T-90 serial tank, is it not fate? UVG - minus, with all due respect hi
  35. Gunther
    Gunther 14 January 2016 15: 08 New
    +2
    The pathos of the article and the rotten headline are surprising.
    Iran has delayed a couple of state boats that have lost their course, this, according to the author of the article, should mean that the mattresses do not know how to operate ships)))
    ... to perform a simple repair, on which one person spends a maximum of one hour, he is torn from the Urals and driven to Dagestan, as a result of which the trip is 11 days ..

    It is the manufacturer’s direct responsibility to fulfill warranty obligations, they do not want to drive across the country, let them create regional service centers.
  36. silberwolf88
    silberwolf88 14 January 2016 15: 08 New
    +1
    It is necessary to seriously deal with the system of organizing military repairs ... divide into categories ... what they do in the troops by technicians and what factory specialists are needed for ...
    Well, the supervision of the state of technical readiness of equipment must be reviewed ... we need a full-fledged engineering and technical service ... it is much more effective than replacing an engine because of = chronic oil underfilling ...
    1. Altona
      Altona 14 January 2016 15: 38 New
      +2
      Quote: silberwolf88
      It is necessary to seriously deal with the system of organizing military repairs ... divide into categories ... what they do in the troops by technicians and what factory specialists are needed for ...

      --------------------
      We have a planned approach to work and the PPR system has been cheated everywhere ... And now, at least change the cartridges, at least sort the box, drive it to a service or order repair, outsourcing in general ...
    2. pv1005
      pv1005 14 January 2016 17: 22 New
      0
      Quote: silberwolf88
      It is necessary to seriously deal with the system of organizing military repairs ... divide into categories ... what they do in the troops by technicians and what factory specialists are needed for ...
      Well, the supervision of the state of technical readiness of equipment must be reviewed ... we need a full-fledged engineering and technical service ... it is much more effective than replacing an engine because of = chronic oil underfilling ...

      Why reinvent the wheel? The system of military repair and maintenance (there were such forces and means, you never heard of such) existed long before the stool, which successfully buried it (the system), leaving everything to the mercy of outsourcing.
  37. Great-grandfather of Zeus
    Great-grandfather of Zeus 14 January 2016 15: 12 New
    +2
    What can I say, the technique in the hands of the savage, the pile of metal is an axiom. Didn’t you get the tank, did it run around at the training ground, did you check the nodes for troubleshooting? found a defect but decided not to bother, this is already an official crime.
  38. engineer74
    engineer74 14 January 2016 15: 20 New
    +3
    I don’t understand what kind of noise? Well, they killed several nodes and assemblies, but single failures, not repeated! When operating equipment, anything can happen! Another thing is surprising - pokatushki UVZ specialists throughout the country, is it really impossible to agree with the Moscow Region? I understand that the case is controversial (warranty / non-warranty), but still gives some insanity ...
    1. Altona
      Altona 14 January 2016 15: 35 New
      +4
      Quote: engineer74
      Another thing is surprising - pokatushki UVZ specialists throughout the country, is it really impossible to agree with the Moscow Region?

      -------------------------
      Relations between UVZ and Moscow oblast as business entities surprise me. That is, NPO UVZ OJSC delivered the product 22220 to military unit No. 20 (188th Motorized Rifle Brigade) ... Some garbage ... Second garbage, so as not to read a couple of volumes of the Operating Instructions, you must at least issue visual manuals or comics indicating the main components of the product and what consumables should be in them and at what level the working fluids are filled.
      1. engineer74
        engineer74 14 January 2016 15: 44 New
        +2
        Exactly! Technique is part of the Man-Machine system, the first part must also be kept in order so that the second does not die! And prepare adequate a man for six months is quite capable, here it is a matter of professional selection, motivation (or mAtivation? wink) and the methodology!
  39. Jackking
    Jackking 14 January 2016 15: 25 New
    +6
    The reason was touched - the use of diesel fuel with a low flash point. What, the factory workers are not aware that the internal combustion engine for tanks is multi-fuel, and should work on everything that burns. And if the war - where to get fuel in accordance with GOST? laughing
    1. ingenera
      ingenera 14 January 2016 16: 39 New
      +2
      He laughed too ... Tank diesel on aviation kerosene can work.
      1. Amurets
        Amurets 14 January 2016 18: 50 New
        0
        Quote: ingenera
        He laughed too ... Tank diesel on aviation kerosene can work.

        You can laugh, no, I don’t know for what equipment, but several times they brought me a YaMZ-240 fuel pump for working on all types of fuel, which I was very surprised at. The pump adjustments were made under the Kirovets K-701. I was simply asked to remove the stops. But on these pumps there were stops not like MTLB, only under the feed lever, but also in front, in front of the rail. I didn’t get where these multi-fuel pumps were from. The owner promised to bring the instruction, but he never brought it.
  40. Altona
    Altona 14 January 2016 15: 28 New
    +9
    Yesterday we discussed with Max how to fill the washer reservoir with gasoline ... laughing
    1. ICT
      ICT 14 January 2016 23: 25 New
      0
      Quote: Altona
      how to fill the washer reservoir with gasoline ...


      Materiel would be taught better.
      under the hood of this machine the neck of the gas tank wink
  41. xBoris
    xBoris 14 January 2016 15: 34 New
    +1
    The repairmen in the USSR were the same jokers.
    ZIL-131, winter, -25 ..- 30, the ball from the bearing turned out to be in the pot.
    The result is clear. Broken head .. Taxkatnya on the coupling ..
  42. ingenera
    ingenera 14 January 2016 15: 42 New
    +5
    Something did not understand, and "they do not know how to operate tanks." What does the "conscripts" have to do with it? Now, when dad buys a young dunce a new gadget, dummy learns to use it for two years? And in your own car no one monitors the oil level and fuel quality? If zampotech gouging, then nothing will help. Like a former tanker I say. And to shoot and drive on the fact that during my service it was any more difficult. And in the training course for 6 months they prepared and sent to serve in the unit, plus half a year to improve skills, this is the same 1 year of service. And how they served the second year, who served, they know. So here is the human factor. There were gouging officers and normal conscripts, and vice versa. I think with the contract soldiers about the same.
  43. Strashila
    Strashila 14 January 2016 15: 44 New
    +3
    He himself worked as a designer in a research institute, as the General Designer used to say ... do not be lazy to think and put up protection from the fool.
    Let the tank and thing expensive, but it is a machine for which there is an instruction manual. And to verify its compliance is the business of the fathers of commanders.
    The lack of qualified and certified army personnel for the operation and repair of equipment is puzzling ... soon a representative of the plant will be required to refuel the tank ... all of a sudden the wrong fuel will be filled.
    The situation is very similar in the pre-war years ... the manufacturer was also throwing the same dust at the factory and they were driving the bolts to the factory.
    But the war set its exploitation priorities ... and there were no such issues until everything went over to the capitalist track, and here the bureaucracy and the loot rule.
    But he drew attention ... in the army, according to the revealed facts, no one carried out preventive actions in the troops to prevent such situations.
  44. 787nkx
    787nkx 14 January 2016 15: 45 New
    +3
    Sinful, ruined one engine on ZIL.
    It was used extremely rarely, once a year.
    They started driving, the engine jammed, looking at the dipstick and the oil on the bottom.
    The first thing that’s right is to add to the level.
    This is the instinct of self-preservation.
    And here, the factory workers arrived and that the box is empty - I DO NOT BELIEVE.
    The beginning ABTS would personally crawl a hundred times to check that it would not be extreme.
  45. kenig1
    kenig1 14 January 2016 15: 50 New
    +6
    For such a headline " Russian army can not operate tanks "fat minus.
  46. russmensch
    russmensch 14 January 2016 15: 57 New
    +8
    Have you ever personally met with repair teams coming for warranty repairs? If you had to, then you should know that they are going by definition to identify operational shortcomings, and not their flaws. I was convinced by my own experience. It has long been true, but nothing changes under the moon. Our part of KShM received, brand new, secretly impossible. Nobody knows how to work with them, but they need to work. Since the order - after 2 months, they must participate in KSHU. They appointed me responsible, warned about future punishments, if anything, and went to learn. And there is technical documentation of volumes 15 of 5-6 kg each. Well, it’s not the gods who burn the pots, slowly learned to cook for work, start up the computer in test mode first, then set tasks and more. And everything seems to be nothing, but now the day has come when an error came up. Moreover, a constant, but in different parameters. That will go into the range, then in height, then in the direction ... In general, he reported to his superiors, a team of repairmen was called. Arrived ... The first thing I heard was that I was dumb and everything else they usually say. Horseradish with him, if only they would make it quicker since the exercises are on the nose, and in front of me the next rank may fly by. And so they do and at the same time teach me ... they say what’s difficult here, we need to take spare blocks in the spare parts and replace the old ones with new ones. Then the business then supposedly for 5 minutes, and another officer ... Work, I answer them, now these are your problems. He didn’t say that I changed these blocks 15 times. They’re smart ... Oh, and you’ll have to pay to laugh at me. We will record in the actik that we will not pay. Write, I do not care if only they did. And now 5 minutes pass, day, second, third, and everything remains the same. They checked everything they could with an oscilloscope and called all the chains, but how many times they changed the blocks and didn’t count them. A machine that gives them the same error. And so they spoke differently. Like, you hear, commander, there is something incomprehensible here, but if we write this, then they will remove the bonuses from us, we will get the nominee and in general there will be a lot of trouble. Come to meet us, we’ll help you with the wording, and you confirm the correctness. A "glade" is already covered. And as in a fairy tale the phrase was bungled, I will die - I will not forget as a result of the passage of a heavy neutron passing through the main processor, the atomic bonds of the circuits are broken, as a result of which the machine must be sent to the factory for disassembly and equipping with new equipment. I then signed this nonsense, neighing over him behind the "clearing" and recouped for all the bullying addressed to me. But that piece of paper rolled and put a new car in a week. So it happens. laughing
    1. Cynic
      Cynic 14 January 2016 16: 28 New
      0
      Quote: russmensch
      personally had to meet with teams of repairmen who came for warranty repairs?

      No, but with the teams accompanying the nodes, warranty repairs were necessary.
      wink
  47. Mercenary
    Mercenary 14 January 2016 15: 58 New
    +3
    Without going into legal proceedings, I want to note that during state acceptance of the whole complex, there could be no such thing as conscripts ... If the tank was under warranty in the box, the oil should be at least no less than the level and leakage or consumption before maintenance is not possible if the product performed efficiently.
    And do not confuse the driver of an 18 year old kid with a mechanic.
  48. Mark68
    Mark68 14 January 2016 16: 01 New
    +4
    Each case is individual, everyone understands this. Although our tanks are made with a decent margin of safety, but if you want or you don’t follow the basic rules, it’s always possible to break everything. He himself served on the T-72 as a gunner, and among mechanics, the first of the tasks and duties was to look at the oil levels where necessary.
    I remember these cases:
    - a part of the cannon was torn off when the tank scooped up the ground during firing (the tank went to the factory to replace the cannon),
    - the goose completely flew off at the side obstruction of the tank from the embankment into the ravine swamp (then they got the whole company),
    - the tank died out during underwater forcing of the river - as a result, the tank had to be flooded so that the crew could evacuate, the tank went to the capital;
    - the most global case of operating stupidity in my memory, this is when the ammunition completely pulled up at the tank standing in combat storage (the tank caught fire in some way during the scheduled check of the starting heater). Shards scattered throughout the military camp. It’s good that at least no casualties. Then Zampotech and the Regiment in general were removed from their posts and demoted.
    So the probability of breakdowns from illiterate or misuse of equipment, I think all the same, is higher than failures as a result of factory defects ...
  49. NKVD
    NKVD 14 January 2016 16: 03 New
    0
    The trouble of Russia is fools and roads.
  50. polkovnik manuch
    polkovnik manuch 14 January 2016 16: 05 New
    +2
    It’s necessary to learn everything correctly the mechanical water drivers, but in parts the same thing, techies and ml. the officers were spoiled to put it mildly, the control is weak, and Serdyukov with his optimization did worse than the enemies. I always said that conscription service, especially one year, does not lead to anything good, especially with the current system of education and vocational education, and with military training centers, everything is not going smoothly. A junior specialist needs to be trained, if right, then from 6 to 9 months, at the current level of development of technology and this is not counting the practice, in short this problem concerns not only tankers in the army, navy and VKS (I’m not used to the name) the conscription service should be at least 2 years old. Only in the second year the soldier understands the meaning of the service and becomes a soldier (ml. commander)
    1. lazma3
      lazma3 14 January 2016 16: 32 New
      +1
      Before declaring the spoilage of techies and ml. It’s not bad for officers to visit the units and see how much they are “spoiled.” If a soldier is only engaged in combat training, then this is enough to assimilate the equipment entrusted to him to the extent necessary to carry out the assigned tasks.