Military Review

What was it? On the visit of Gryzlov to Poroshenko

164
Really, what was it? Strange last meeting. Strange behavior of the President of Ukraine. Peculiar reaction Rada. It seems that the oddities are piled on top of one another and should soon collapse in one big, smelly heap. However, as if by magic, the puzzle of the oddities can be folded into a picture. And we will try to fold this picture as we see it.


What was it? On the visit of Gryzlov to Poroshenko


Let's start a little from afar. What were the objectives of the Maidan in relation to Russia?

1. Throw Russia out of the Crimea. Since the contract was extended right up to 2019, with the prospect of further prolongation.
2. To tear Ukraine from Russia politically.
3. Tear off Ukraine from Russia economically.
4. Tear Ukraine from Russia ideologically.

It can be said that all items, except the number 1, were met. But, as it turned out, the item number 1 was enough above the roof, so that the situation went off the intended rails. For the Donbass arose, and not only it arose with some of its ambitions, but also really confirmed in practice the validity of its intentions.

It seems that Peremoga has arrived, but, as we have already written in due time, the question arose: who pays for the banquet?

It is clear that the main troublemaker of the Ukrainian problem, the USA, was counting on Europe. However, in Europe there was its own zrada, which crowds of refugees put Europe on its ears. And Europe has become really not up to Ukraine. His, as they say, problems piled on in the literal sense of this expression.

The United States, too, cannot continue to clear up Ukrainian problems. And also for political reasons. Obama is leaving, leaving quite ignominiously, but who will replace him is still a question. The same Clinton is pretty cool about Ukraine, and Trump's arrival in general can put a fat cross on all the aspirations of the Ukrainian authorities about overseas assistance.

Where to go Poroshenko? The only seemingly ally, kissed by Erdogan. But Erdogan also has something to do except to support Ukraine. And today's allies of Erdogan are not Poroshenko’s allies.

It turns out a vicious circle, which, nevertheless, it is necessary to break. Unless, of course, there is a desire not to play in a landfill stories.

Yes, there is still Russia. True, Russia has already poured so much of everything that it’s not worth hoping that it will come to a solution to the Ukrainian crisis on acceptable terms. Yes, and we have our own problems no less than the allies of Ukraine.

Nobody wants to pay for the banquet.

Nevertheless, it is necessary to do something. And do, before it's too late. Apparently, Poroshenko’s team came to similar conclusions, once they took such a step as the invitation to “talk” Gryzlov. And here went the nuances.

If you believe the statements of the Ukrainian side, Russia and Ukraine are in a state of war, albeit a hybrid one, but a war. No such confrontation, especially armed (as Ukraine insists on), does not imply the arrival in the capital of the country of a guest from a state located on the other side of the barricade. This is complete nonsense. Well, on neutral territory, in Minsk or there, Paris. But landing an airplane from the Presidential Detachment of the Russian Federation in Borispol is not even a spittle. This is a complete slap all those who adhere to the official Ukrainian opinion.

And we have to admit that the leader of the Radical Party, Oleg Lyashko, did not offer such a stupid thing: to arrest Gryzlov and imprison him, just as the British authorities did with Rudolf Hess who suddenly flew to England. If we are at war, then we are at war. There are no relations between countries, which means no. And do not understand what actually goes.

But nobody asked Lyashka, because the plane not only landed and flew back, as if nothing had happened. Wipe, Oleg Valerievich!

By the way, about Gryzlov. Remember that immediately after the signing of the "Minsk-2" Putin presented Hollande and Merkel as a special representative in the contact group of a completely different person - namely, his adviser Surkov?

Then it provoked in Kiev the most powerful on hysterics, which was expressed in the fact that Surkov was accused of ... shooting the Heavenly Hundreds. The Ukrainian authorities found it difficult to answer questions, what was the role of Vladislav Yuryevich in this action, how he organized this shooting, held the machine gun in person or only led the process. Nevertheless, in Kiev, they quickly brought a criminal case to Surkov, and it is clear that he could not carry out his duties in the light of such events.

In Kiev, they celebrated Peremog, because Zurabov, who headed the commission for resolving the Ukrainian-Donbas problems, was quite happy with the Ukrainian side.

But in a fever, the Ukrainian rulers forgot that the Russian president always adheres to the same strategy: if your first sentence - and it is usually white and fluffy for your opponent - was rudely rejected, then after some time another, much tougher one will fall from the sky far less pleasant. And it will not be rejected already, because it will be formulated in other circumstances.

We can talk a lot about Gryzlov and Surkov in terms of comparison, but the difference is clear. And the comparison in terms of professional fitness is not in favor of Surkov. One thing is the development of projects, another thing is their implementation by any means. There is definitely Gryzlov preferable. And he has more authority.

What Gryzlov and Poroshenko talked about, of course, will not soon become public knowledge, if at all. One can only guess. It seems to us that we will be able to see the consequences of this meeting in the very near future.

It will not cause the greatest surprise if in the near future Poroshenko introduces to the Rada questions ... federalization.

The regions (and this is not only about the Donbas) have long been waiting for this moment. If you look more closely at what is being written in the Ukrainian media, then they talked about federalization in much the same way as two years ago about integration into Europe. But if European integration is a very, very dubious affair, then federalization, liberties and the ability to dispose of locally at its discretion are, as it were, closer.

In general, it is very logical to take some steps to ensure that Ukraine does not collapse completely and irrevocably. Federalization is very appropriate here, modeled on the United States or Switzerland. It seems to be one political roof, one Constitution, and in place (state, canton, region) everyone blows into the tune they can. Confederation, such a term is more appropriate.

Ask: what does Russia have to do with it? And despite the fact that the Donbass. Donbass, which did not die out, did not die out, and lives for itself and is doing. With the help of Russia, of course. The Donbass is the boil that will never allow the Ukrainian authorities to sit directly in the chair.

In order to reduce the influence of Russia in the Donbas, do not give a final break away to the territories, which are tied to the economy of Ukraine (very, very tightly), Poroshenko may even go to the restoration of the territories of Lugansk and Donetsk regions in the former borders.

But you have to pay for this by the fact that these territories will remain part of Ukraine. But on other than before conditions. It is clear that in other regions they believe that they are no worse, and they also want independence. But it is also clear that Donbass will have to give more than everyone else.

Will they win in the Donbas? Definitely, yes. An economy that actually breathes its last and is working according to shady contractual schemes will be able to work precisely in the framework to which it was tied. We have written about this framework. Donetsk metallurgy cannot work normally without Krivbas ores, Nikopol fluxes, the Mariupol port and the Kiev export roof. Alas. But, in conditions of greater independence, it is possible to solve many questions on the revival of the same metallurgy and metalworking. The question is only in the conditions.

The question of whether Russia will pull back the revival of Donbass on its own, is not even submitted for discussion. And this is not a “plum”, as some readers like to shout, this is the harsh reality of our days. Do not pull.

Under the conditions of the creation of a certain Ukrainian confederation, Poroshenko is quite possible to maintain both the power (albeit not the same as today) and, most importantly, the country.

Yes, “pawns” like Yatsenyuk and Avakov will have to be sacrificed, but about Arseny and so everything is clear - “not a tenant”. Mishiko is also not a figure for establishing a dialogue with Russia. But again, there is a nuance in the form of the same Azarov. We believe that we will hear more about him.

It was to discuss issues of this level that the arrival of Putin’s personal representative, a person of his circle, Gryzlov, was required. If this is indeed the way we imagine, then ... wait News from Poroshenko.
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  1. izya top
    izya top 14 January 2016 06: 02
    39
    Today, Petya will press conference. I will put a can of water in front of the screen, but what if? .. what
    1. Alex_on
      Alex_on 14 January 2016 06: 10
      13
      Previously, hemorrhoids were treated like that ...
      1. Nevsky_ZU
        Nevsky_ZU 14 January 2016 06: 29
        57
        What Gryzlov and Poroshenko talked about, of course, will not soon become public knowledge, if at all. One can only guess. It seems to us that we will be able to see the consequences of this meeting in the very near future.


        Today, when cable TV and the Internet in the house, have become the norm. Today, when a trip to a shopping center is part of a routine and some enjoyable action, this is how, unfortunately or fortunately, wars are conducted. Whoever pushes and pushes how many positions, he won. Donbass is certainly a pity, as many sacrifices and sufferings clearly deserve more than just autonomy within Ukraine. I don’t understand how it will be possible to raise next to one more yellow-blue flag on the flagpole in front of the Donetsk City Hall? recourse Ukraine will have to change the flag, give the status of the Russian language of the second state, and Donbass the status of a confederation, no less. Or the full section, as it should be.
        1. Sirocco
          Sirocco 14 January 2016 07: 17
          40
          Quote: Nevsky_ZU
          Ukraine will have to change the flag, give the status of the Russian language of the second state, and Donbass the status of a confederation, no less.

          I think that if everything is like the authors of the article, then Ukraine will have to change not only the Swedish flag, but also the requiem hymn, the constitution, and much more. That is, it will be a completely different state.
          The share of common sense in the reasoning of the article is, only a little comes true from our vangovaniya.
          Say so we assume, and God disposes. We will see.
          1. Sid.74
            Sid.74 14 January 2016 12: 23
            33
            I would not rush to conclusions about the arrival of Gryzlov. For questions about Ukraine to hell and answers to them can only be hypothetically.

            For there is a question regarding 3 billion of debt. And still heaps of other debts of about 18 billion to Russian banks.
            The question of the punishment and extradition of Nazi ghouls, against whom criminal cases have been instituted in Russia, as well as of Islamists who are members of the Terbat Azov and Crimea, and who participated in hostilities in Chechnya.
            The issue of issuing Saakashvili Georgia.
            The issue of the release of all activists, journalists detained by the SBU in Kiev, Kharkov, Odessa and throughout Ukraine.
            The issue of amnesty for combatants in the Donbass.
            A question about the investigation of the tragedy in Odessa, about the investigation of the events on the Maidan, and another question about the public investigation of the tragedy of the Boeing MH 17.
            The question of the introduction of criminal articles for the promotion of fascism and Nazism.
            The issue of investigating political killings, such as the case of Oles Buzina.
            The question of the federalization of Ukraine, the question of the election of the heads of Donetsk and Lugansk regions, the question of restoring Donbass.
            Without solving these issues, it is not even worth talking to Poroshenko’s government.
            1. Turkestan
              Turkestan 14 January 2016 22: 33
              +7
              And the main question? HOW WILL CITIZENS OF THE DNI AND THE LPR IN A COMMON HOUSE AFTER SUCH BLOOD LIVE?
              1. fennekRUS
                fennekRUS 15 January 2016 00: 03
                +1
                Quote: Turkestan
                And the main question? HOW WILL CITIZENS OF THE DNI AND THE LPR IN A COMMON HOUSE AFTER SUCH BLOOD LIVE?

                Well, Chechnya is living, and not bad. The largest mosque was cut off. 5 years smoothly ustakanut, it would be a desire. Politics, craft unprincipled. They’ll notice everything under the carpet, for the sake of money and power.
                1. Vohman
                  Vohman 15 January 2016 01: 33
                  -6
                  Quote: fennekRUS
                  Well, Chechnya is living, and not bad

                  As I see it, Chechnya lives well, but with subsidies from the Russian Federation, i.e. with the money of Russian taxpayers. As a republic within the Russian Federation - yes, it is listed, but judging by the "local laws" (or unwritten "amendments" to the laws of the Russian Federation on the territory of Chechnya) it lives as an independent state, formally related to the Russian Federation. One gets the impression that the Russian Federation pays (that is, pays) for a calm Chechnya, the Russian Federation pays indemnity to Chechnya for the lost war, the Russian Federation pays Chechnya for loyalty and humility, the Russian Federation pays ... Will there be enough funds for everything? Now oil is $ 30 each, and "loyalty" is already accustomed. What will happen next? And they have to pay more and more and not only in Chechnya.
                  Will the Russian Federation continue to pay the LPNR for their "ideology" and "loyalty"? In addition, Crimea also had to be paid for. And this is all very huge funds, which are no longer enough for internal issues in the Russian Federation itself, not to mention the support of its regime in the "new borders" and those "boils" [the author's words about the DPR and LPR] on the territory of Ukraine, which suddenly appeared and "supported" [author's words] RF.

                  The question of whether Russia will pull back the revival of Donbass on its own, is not even submitted for discussion. And this is not a “plum”, as some readers like to shout, this is the harsh reality of our days. Do not pull.
                  And here the author is exactly right.
                  But in relation to some Special privileges to Donbass, namely Donetsk and Lugansk regions, nothing of the kind will happen.
                  But it is also clear that the Donbass will have to give more than everyone else.
                  Will they benefit from this in the Donbass? Definitely yes. An economy that actually breathes in the dark and works according to shadow contractual arrangements will be able to work precisely within the framework it was tied to. [] Donetsk metallurgy cannot function normally without Krybass ore, Nikopol fluxes, Mariupol port and Kiev export roof. Alas.

                  So why is it clear that Donbass will have to give more? Why is that?! What kind of merit? Further. And how will these areas be restored in full ruin? At whose expense? Due to other regions of Ukraine? - somehow it’s not logical to build someone good; all areas will do well primarily for themselves. Will investors come running? Where and who? Do they need guarantees that tomorrow the same thing will not start again? And money loves silence.
                  Well, decentralization in Ukraine is far from federalization. Although formally it is possible to call it as it was done in the Russian Federation: it is considered a federation, but in fact it cannot be called a federation (by definition of the very concept of the Federation).
                  So, of course, we can talk about the special privileges of Donetsk and Lugansk regions, but no one will do this within the framework of a single state. This is not logical. And there are no reasons to form certain federal republics either, because so far there has not been an independent state that would like to join Ukraine in a federal state; And that’s exactly how something federal comes out, and not through the anus, as the author describes it.
                  1. c3r
                    c3r 15 January 2016 04: 58
                    +7
                    You probably saw this nonsense on the Inter channel. The Chechen Republic was restored after the counter-terrorist operation, in which the federal forces won. And what are the civilians to blame for, whose homes and property suffered during the military operations? And what to do with the destroyed ones reason industrial enterprises? Of course, there is a problem with tax collection, but this problem is typical for the entire North Caucasus and other regions of the Russian Federation, so out of 85 regions only about two dozen are not subsidized, the rest receive assistance in one way or another according to your indemnity. (read Donbas and the Luhansk region) all as one militants and they need to be replenished, and then assign an exorbitant indemnity and even banish call insects and other unflattering nicknames! So then of course everyone will reach out and want to live in one country, yeah hold in both hands and don’t drop it! Now about the economy of Russia. Understand yourselves. At the moment, the Russian air forces help to restore order in Syria, the bridge to the Crimea (by the way, one of the largest in Europe) is under construction, by May we finish the energy bridge, your salaries are paid, your guest workers They continue to rush to Russia, especially since Europe doesn’t need you at all, the goods on the shelves are more and more Russian. It doesn’t work out. It takes time to change the supply chains, bring the legal framework back to normal and some people’s thinking. And I assure you, it’s better to take American rolls and open your mouth to spreading snot on your face to listen to John Biden sitting in the chair of the head of state .And generally in 90 when we all took place in the form of a tragedy, you lived well due to cheap gas, our loans, work in Russia, and now the guys are your turn to go through it, but in the form of farce. In general, all Slavs are united by something that does not we want to learn from the mistakes of others, we climb into the same ram as the neighbor got into before, and then rubbing ourselves up with a scolding, not that neighbor, but take a full spoon, just try not to plunder and ruin everything, and when to Russia again ask how poor relatives wouldn’t be ashamed to ask for subsidies (which you mistakenly consider indemnities)? But we are kind in Russia, we are not the first to save the Slav brothers! The truth is then boring from them mainly g. But to receive in the form of gratitude!
                    1. Vohman
                      Vohman 15 January 2016 05: 31
                      -2
                      Here you are, c3r, write:
                      Quote: c3r
                      The Chechen Republic was restored after the counter-terrorism operation

                      In this case, we can also say for the future that Donets and Lugansk regions will be restored after the counter-terrorism operation. Although I would call it a little differently, I do not want to depart from your way of thinking.
                      Or is this definition confusing you? Then what is the difference for you?
                      1. Sirocco
                        Sirocco 15 January 2016 15: 36
                        +3
                        Quote: Vohman
                        In this case, it can also be said for the future that the Doyentskaya and Lugansk regions will be restored after the counter-terrorist operation.

                        In this case, I have a question for you.
                        When will Kiev be restored, after an armed seizure of power that you call the Revolution of Muck?
                      2. c3r
                        c3r 16 January 2016 00: 43
                        -3
                        You have already performed the operation (4 boilers), well, restore it, or is this definition of the operation embarrassing you?
                    2. Sirocco
                      Sirocco 15 January 2016 15: 33
                      +2
                      Quote: c3r
                      .In general, all the Slavs are united by the fact that we do not want to learn from the mistakes of others, we climb into the same ram as the neighbor got into before, and then wiping off scolding not himself, but that neighbor.

                      I recalled a joke. Two peasants arrived in the city to the bazaar, after selling agricultural products, one says to the other, hear, kume, let's sit in the restaurant at least once. They decided on that. We went in, sat down, looked around, and, on a peasant’s table, they see salt shakers, pepper shakers, and a mustard socket, godmother Kumu says it’s probably an expensive dish, since it’s so small on a plate, we can allow ourselves to booze once in a lifetime. We ordered vodka, bread, and voon that man’s dish, only a full plate, the waiter shrugged, and brought them. They poured it, drank it, one bitten with a spoon of mustard, and cries, the second one asks, goddamn it, I remembered how my mother died, so I cried, I drank the second, and hap, with a spoon, and crying, and you crying? So I remembered how your mother was dying, and you are sh. Ska, you didn’t die with her.
                      That's how part of it all goes in Ukraine.
                  2. Alexey-74
                    Alexey-74 15 January 2016 14: 36
                    -1
                    we Chechnya did not lose the war in the military sense, we pay or whatever you like, not only it, but also the republics of the North Caucasus (Dagestan, Ingushetia, etc.)
                  3. kavad
                    kavad 17 January 2016 22: 34
                    0
                    Chechnya lives well


                    The most subsidized regions have ALWAYS been from the Far East.
                    I don’t remember the exclamations: "Stop feeding Yakutia!" Magadan, Kamchatka ...
                2. Alexey-74
                  Alexey-74 15 January 2016 14: 33
                  0
                  Chechnya is the territory of the Russian Federation if that ... and the issue with the Chechen Republic is not only a military, but also a geopolitical concern for all southern territories in the south of Russia
              2. Alexey-74
                Alexey-74 15 January 2016 14: 31
                0
                I think the next few years
            2. Apsit
              Apsit 15 January 2016 11: 24
              0
              Quote: Sid.74
              I would not rush to conclusions about the arrival of Gryzlov. For questions about Ukraine to hell and answers to them can only be hypothetically.

              All these questions exist, but they are not so important that I would ignore Lyashko’s appeal
              And we have to admit that the leader of the Radical Party Oleg Lyashko didn’t offer such nonsense: to arrest Gryzlov and to imprison him, just like the British authorities did with Rudolf Hess, who had suddenly flown to England.

              In this case, much more important issues for Ukraine were resolved than the issue of debts to Russia
          2. Yars
            Yars 14 January 2016 12: 40
            +2
            Quote: Sirocco
            Quote: Nevsky_ZU
            Ukraine will have to change the flag, give the status of the Russian language of the second state, and Donbass the status of a confederation, no less.

            I think that if everything is like the authors of the article, then Ukraine will have to change not only the Swedish flag, but also the requiem hymn, the constitution, and much more. That is, it will be a completely different state.
            The share of common sense in the reasoning of the article is, only a little comes true from our vangovaniya.
            Say so we assume, and God disposes. We will see.

            here is another interesting fact! The arrival of Gryzlov happened after the arrest of Korban (the right hand of Kolomoisky) and later the escape of Kolomoisky himself, these both made a small effort for the conflict in Ukraine!
            1. BDRM 667
              BDRM 667 14 January 2016 13: 07
              +5
              Quote: YARS
              here is another interesting fact! The arrival of Gryzlov happened after the arrest of Korban (the right hand of Kolomoisky) and later the escape of Kolomoisky himself, these both made a small effort for the conflict in Ukraine!


              And also, before that it snowed, the New Year came, which undoubtedly affected the arrival of Gryzlov yes

              If it were not for the coincidence of these factors (Korban, Kolomoisky, snowfall, New Year), a visit would hardly have been possible ...
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. Sirocco
              Sirocco 14 January 2016 16: 35
              +5
              Quote: YARS
              another fact is interesting here!

              Then at leisure I thought, and visited such a thought.
              And it was not for anyone, or for anything, that a plane flew from the presidential park, especially according to the media, they met him on more than one minibus. The fact that it is necessary to solve all the voiced issues in the article, and our colleagues on the forum, can be done first by telephone, and in Minsk, or elsewhere. Well, hay does not go after a cow.
          3. cap54
            cap54 14 January 2016 16: 36
            +2
            God is not a fraer, he does not play leapfrog with the universe, although it would be more correct to say this: We assume, but God disposes, but tries to arrange as we suppose, although he does not always succeed ...
        2. BDRM 667
          BDRM 667 14 January 2016 08: 40
          31
          Under the conditions of the creation of a certain Ukrainian confederation, Poroshenko is quite possible to maintain both the power (albeit not the same as today) and, most importantly, the country.


          However, as if by a wave of a magic wand, a puzzle from oddities can form a picture. And we will try to put this picture together as it seems to us.


          Md what .

          You will read SUCH, and one thing remains, only to amuse yourself with the thought that this is only a private, not quite professional view of the authors ...

          Otherwise it turns out ... It turns out that the bloody Poroshenko is not so bloody, but even a very necessary figure in the "settlement" process that suits the Kremlin ...

          And "small fry", who do not fit into the puzzle scattered by the authors, apparently also deserve a condescending attitude for the deaths of thousands and thousands of residents of Donbass and residents of other regions who have not submitted to the junta.

          And the very definition of JUNT, which had previously flashed here and there in the materials of the respected authors themselves, Staver and Skomorokhov, suddenly disappeared somewhere after the change in the "party policy" ...

          Wow ... Parasha will retain power and a country that, under HIS WISE leadership, will suddenly be denacified and will not become hostile to the Donbass and Russia ...
          1. Xergey
            Xergey 14 January 2016 09: 02
            +7
            And it would be better if Donbass sat with a dead economy and received greetings every day from ukro-zombies, because there are people there and they want to live and not get shelling, but who will restore this region? in Russia, as we see, it’s not a fountain either, and the issue with the liberals has not been resolved, so it is not planned. So for the people it will be better that there will be normalization, and if the elections in Donbass pass normally and they choose who should be, then Ukraine will pay only bills, and everything else will be as it is now.
            1. sisa29
              sisa29 14 January 2016 12: 36
              +7
              So you said not comfortable but the truth and you were bombarded with minuses. It's nice to be a patriot sitting on the couch. And in Donbas, the situation is clearly at an impasse and it is not clear that enlightenment will be ahead, but people want to live and raise children now. My plus to you.
          2. domokl
            domokl 14 January 2016 09: 49
            +6
            Quote: BDRM 667
            Wow ... Parasha will retain power and a country that, under HIS WISE leadership, will suddenly be denacified and will not become hostile to the Donbass and Russia ...

            And now is this country friendly to Russia and the Donbass? So, just a question. Or can you clearly say what is being built in the Donbass? To answer the simple question of a first-grader, why is the LPR and the DPR not together? Where did the borders come from?
            and the last one. Which of the leaders (not politicians) of Russia has ever said that he wants the collapse of Ukraine?
            1. BDRM 667
              BDRM 667 14 January 2016 10: 39
              +5
              Quote: domokl
              and the last one. Which of the leaders (not politicians) of Russia has ever said that he wants the collapse of Ukraine?

              Let's start with the "last" ...
              Without going into the details of what, how and which of the country's officials spoke about the future structure of Ukraine, I will draw YOUR attention to the fact that it was YOU, the AUTHORS, who suggested the possibility of finding the "president of the world" at the helm of "federal Ukraine" ...
              Spit on the mountains of the bodies of the dead, mutilated fate, looted Donbass.

              How did something stir in your brains, even in assumptions (!!!), to "leave" the pig as the President of Ukraine, even if "curtailed in powers"?

              Fascist, not a fascist anymore?

              About "construction in Donbass" ... What can be built there, in the conditions of the occupation of large parts of the territories, but subject to the change of "curators" in Donbass with a revision of the attitude towards the junta: from "fascists" to "we will negotiate with them."

              Your "penny" in the form of "parAshenko for the kingdom" is also in the zhety.
              1. domokl
                domokl 14 January 2016 11: 28
                0
                Quote: BDRM 667
                to "leave" the pig as the President of Ukraine, even if "curtailed in powers"?

                Well, let's start from here ... What are your options? The split of Ukraine? And what will it give? Donbass will live better? I doubt it. Just because I know the industry structure of this region.
                is it really not clear so far that politics is deadly tied to the economy ... Well, today Russia does not have the strength to feed the Donbass. Of course, we are pleased to talk about import substitution and more. Only this business is not one day or even a year. Can Donbass feed himself? Only honestly, without torn vests.
                I even know the answer .. Maybe if Russia ........ And if without Russia?
                Quote: BDRM 667
                ... What can be built there, in the conditions of the occupation of large parts of the territories, but subject to the change of "curators" in Donbass with a revision of the attitude towards the junta: from "fascists" to "we will negotiate with them."

                Your mother ... Who is building? Russia or Donetsk? If Russia, then what the hell are all these republics and people? Logic where? Donbass has already won the right to decide everything on their own ... Independently! Russia wants to help, please. He doesn’t want a feather in the tail for flying in the wind ...
                1. The comment was deleted.
                2. alicante11
                  alicante11 14 January 2016 12: 20
                  13
                  ..Well, today Russia has no power to feed the Donbass
                  .

                  Why should we "feed" him? Donbass is an industrial region. Moreover, it is export-oriented. Economically tied to Russia - sales. Okay, Ukrainian raw materials, who is stopping you from switching to Russian? You can transport it by piece of iron, so the port of Mariupol is not so important when trading with Russia. Salaries in Donbass cannot be compared even with Russian ones, so the products will be quite competitive, especially since the ruble runs there. The social sphere is also an order of magnitude lower. Personally, I do not see insoluble problems for economic development.
                  And dill also will not go anywhere, they will buy coal. So everything is normal with the economy. It would be a desire.

                  Besides, I do not think that Gryzlov was appointed to negotiate. Gryzlov is a tough politician, not a negotiator. Zurabov could also agree. His rating is also low, it is already impossible to spoil. So the situation is more like "the last Chinese". Like "hands off the Donbass".
                  1. The comment was deleted.
                  2. older
                    older 14 January 2016 14: 25
                    0
                    Quote: alicante11
                    . Well, the raw materials are Ukrainian, who is stopping the switch to Russian?

                    In this case, the product is golden. not competitive. So that ...
                    1. mervino2007
                      mervino2007 14 January 2016 19: 33
                      0
                      Quote: older
                      the products are gold. not competitive

                      Is it expensive to carry? Where are the calculations? It’s all about mass. The regularity of traffic. In theory: if the mass tends to infinity, then the unit cost of transportation is zero. This option cannot be discarded. Although it will require large initial costs, or a large time (years, or tens). People will not be able to huddle in such temporary conditions.
                3. 72jora72
                  72jora72 14 January 2016 13: 30
                  11
                  The split of Ukraine? And what will it give? Donbass will live better?
                  Better a terrible end than horror without end ..... this phrase was told to me by relatives from Slavyansk.
                4. sa-ag
                  sa-ag 14 January 2016 13: 59
                  +9
                  Quote: domokl
                  Who is building? Russia or Donetsk?

                  Yes, no one is building, or rather, from the beginning, the Donetsk people wanted to build something like that, but apparently, in the opinion of the authorities and business, they have strongly deviated to the left, so now those put on the ground are observing the status quo, "until further notice."
                  1. older
                    older 14 January 2016 14: 28
                    +2
                    Quote: sa-ag
                    No one is building

                    Honestly, I’m tired of Ukraine in all respects to hell. But it’s interesting. I completely agree with your statement. Only a question arises in my head-Why the hell is all this? Why so many deaths? That was?
          3. Oldwiser
            Oldwiser 14 January 2016 10: 24
            +3
            Quote: BDRM 667
            overnight denazified and not hostile

            I recall Comrade Stalin, for whom, before the war, the German Social Democrats were more vicious enemies than the Nazis Adolf Aloizievich ...
          4. Lelek
            Lelek 14 January 2016 11: 45
            +3
            Quote: BDRM 667
            You will read SUCH, and one thing remains, only to amuse yourself with the thought that this is only a private, not quite professional view of the authors ...


            The most important thing (IMHO) is that negotiations are underway, not the hum of guns. Yes, they will be difficult, they will come to a dead end, but there will be compromises. As Professor Korocce used to say - "we will see" (however, maybe he did not say that). yes
        3. Oleg14774
          Oleg14774 14 January 2016 10: 33
          +3
          Quote: Nevsky_ZU
          Donbass confederation status, no less. Or a full section, as expected.

          Purely humanly, this is one hundred percent correct, but it will not solve the issue. The question will be solved only if Ukraine completely becomes pro-Russian. This is a strategic issue and it requires a lot of action.
        4. Alexey-74
          Alexey-74 15 January 2016 14: 29
          0
          no longer peaceful, friendly, etc. coexistence between Ukraine and Donbas
      2. andre
        andre 14 January 2016 07: 13
        +1
        Guys, people are such by nature, everything is quickly forgotten. For example, we treat the Germans as normal, and Hitler is ch. M. !!! Chechnya has also calmed down, although the conflict was only recently. And Donbass will calm down and will live as part of Ukraine. Everyone wants to live !!!
        1. Riv
          Riv 14 January 2016 08: 07
          33
          Well, of course. Donbass will calm down and will live as part of Ukraine. I already imagined this picture: Donetsk sonderkommandy clean up Lviv, Klitschko reforges and walks with the Russian tricolor, Zakharchenko is number one on the list of candidates for the presidency of Ukraine (there are two people on the list, the second is Kadyrov), the Bear-foundling did not manage to escape and in the Odessa zone turned into Masha ...
          1. BDRM 667
            BDRM 667 14 January 2016 08: 56
            +8
            Quote: Riv
            Well, of course. Donbass will calm down and will live as part of Ukraine. I already imagined this picture: Donetsk sonderkommandy clean up Lviv, Klitschko reforges and walks with the Russian tricolor, Zakharchenko is number one on the list of candidates for the presidency of Ukraine (there are two people on the list, the second is Kadyrov), the Bear-foundling did not manage to escape and in the Odessa zone turned into Masha ...


            Yes, the authors, in their "analysis" of the event, try to console (themselves?) By the fact that having imposed "peaceful conditions" on the Kuevo regime through the efforts of Gryzlov and Co., everything, with a wave of a magic wand, quietly and peacefully, will return to "pre-maid days." ..

            Yeah, keep your pocket wider ...

            How many parashenko do not feed, the Bandera is still thicker.
            1. Riv
              Riv 14 January 2016 10: 19
              +9
              Bandera? Do not make me laugh. Petyunya is a puppet, but Yarosh is a clown from a bankrupt circus. Nationalists could not take advantage of their short-lived rise. You see: soon the Ukrainians themselves will begin to demolish the monument to Bandera and others like him, and the most arrogant Natsiks will go, so to speak, along the path of their ancestor: to a concentration camp.
              And all around will clap their hands and race to fight against fascism.
            2. domokl
              domokl 14 January 2016 11: 35
              +2
              Quote: BDRM 667
              , the authors, in the "analysis" of the event, try to console (themselves?

              Yes, everything is simpler. Do you need to console the authors? Just reading the chronology of events in the LNR gives the impression that economic relations are established there. and not with Russia ... Do mines work? And where does the coal go? And the factories? And how are products delivered abroad? Through Russia? Yeah ...
              Or, in case of a sudden attack of dill, the LDNR Armed Forces will be able to stop them in one go? Well ... Of course, you can stand on a morale ... stand for a day .. And the balance of power? Again, stop ... if the north wind blows?
              1. The comment was deleted.
                1. Stasi
                  Stasi April 27 2020 10: 05
                  +2
                  laughing Yeah ...
                  Quote: BDRM 667
                  That's all your "LEVEL" ...
              2. Gomunkul
                Gomunkul 14 January 2016 15: 57
                +2
                Yes, everything is simpler. Do you need to console the authors? Just reading the chronology of events in the LNR gives the impression that economic relations are established there.
                Here are the words of Alexander Zakharchenko:
                According to the forecast of the head of the self-proclaimed Donetsk people's republic, Alexander Zakharchenko, a protest movement may form in Ukraine in the foreseeable future, which should change the country. True, the DNI does not intend to contribute to its creation.
                “We will welcome such a protest movement in every possible way. And not only welcome, but also help everything we can. But only on condition that this protest movement is born in Ukraine and itself will turn to us for help. We will not show initiative. not our history. Although we cannot be indifferent to what is happening in Ukraine, since our state depends on it too - our neighbors, ”the DPR head added.“ Otherwise, everything will be very bad. I can confidently say that Ukraine must change - otherwise it will disappear. "
                Link to article: http://www.rg.ru/2016/01/14/dnr-site.html
            3. older
              older 14 January 2016 14: 30
              0
              Honestly, all Ukrainians are tired already ... Authors too. How many goats do not say that he will still consider himself to be. Whom he wants ...
        2. demo
          demo 14 January 2016 10: 59
          11
          I don’t remember who said it, but it sounds like this:
          "You can only forget what has never happened."
          And we remember the "exploits" of the Germans, and nobody forgot about the activities of the Chechens.
          The truth is not to stir up old wounds.
          But scars must be remembered.
          In order not to receive new ones.
      3. Baloo
        Baloo 14 January 2016 09: 33
        0
        Then you need to put a cucumber or two next to the jar, and what if it helps to cure it?
      4. DobryAAH
        DobryAAH 14 January 2016 11: 10
        -1
        Such an article on the Censor will be approved ...
      5. WKS
        WKS 14 January 2016 12: 44
        0
        Quote: Alex_on
        Previously, hemorrhoids were treated like that ...

        And not only him, but also stomach ulcers. Once a man got it, having suffered with her "darling" so in a box and lay down after many years. In this variant with Ukraine, it is not hemorrhoids and not an ulcer, it is most likely a sarcoma that cannot be treated in principle and is not compatible with life ... The only question is about the timing of death.
      6. Nikolay K
        Nikolay K 14 January 2016 15: 36
        0
        With such healers, hemorrhoids can only be made.
    2. Finches
      Finches 14 January 2016 06: 14
      18
      Gryzlov’s trip to Kiev is an intrigue of intrigue!

      A conversation between GDP and Obama over the phone, immediately after this trip, suggests that Petya after Gryzlov, realizing that he was an ambassador, immediately started playing in Washington, looking for support and protection! The lame duck reluctantly gained GDP and perhaps asked not to touch ha ... stupid, until the end of her sitting in the Oval Office! But what a proposal that Pete’s GDP made impossible to refuse, it would be really extremely interesting to find out!
      1. Ami du peuple
        Ami du peuple 14 January 2016 06: 20
        +9
        Quote: Finches
        But what a proposal that Pete’s GDP made impossible to refuse, it would be really extremely interesting to find out!

        This version seems interesting:
        Boris Gryzlov flew to Boryspil with an ultimatum: either during the month Ukraine honestly performs Minsk-2, without adjustments, as agreed after 17 hours of negotiations in Minsk and the defeat of the Debaltsevsky boiler, or the Ukrainian cunning of Poroshenko together with the booty will be torn off by Donbass militias. This is primarily due to the problems of import substitution, as it turned out that Russia cannot build Motor Sich and KB-Yuzhnoye for several years, and the situation is such that there is no time to restore scientific and technical cooperation between Ukraine and Russia. And the gentlemen from the right sector, along with the gentlemen of Zhydobandera, will have to come to terms with this, as well as the fact that the politicians who advocate cooperation between Russia and Ukraine are the same citizens and patriots of Ukraine, like ... however, all the rest are not , and any attempt to terrorize such politicians and patriots of Ukraine will first encounter with Ukrainian law enforcement agencies, and then with Donbass militias, many of which, by the way, were killed by the gentlemen of Zhydobandera and the gentlemen of law-enforcement.
        In addition, the undermining of power lines by Turkish saboteurs in the camouflage of the Crimean Tatars makes accidents at Ukrainian nuclear power plants almost inevitable, and this is nuclear terrorism with which Russia cannot reconcile with its borders. http://abrod.livejournal.com/901620.html

        However, let's see ..
        1. askort154
          askort154 14 January 2016 08: 43
          11
          Ami du peuple .... This is primarily due to the problems of import substitution, as it turned out that Russia could not build Motor Sich and KB-Yuzhnoye for several years, and the situation is such that there is time to restore scientific and technical cooperation between Ukraine and Russia does not remain.


          Such nonsense could be born only in the censors of the brain. Can add,
          Russia is ready to give the Kuril Islands to Japan, for the sake of resuming supplies to Russia of ukro-sich motors and the ruins of the South Design Bureau.
          1. sa-ag
            sa-ag 14 January 2016 09: 26
            +1
            Quote: askort154
            Russia cannot build Motor Sich in a few years

            So Boguslaev seems to have placed the Motor Sich plant in the Russian Federation
            1. Normal ok
              Normal ok 14 January 2016 14: 46
              0
              Quote: sa-ag
              Quote: askort154
              Russia cannot build Motor Sich in a few years

              So Boguslaev seems to have placed the Motor Sich plant in the Russian Federation

              Aircraft repair plant in Belarus.
        2. BDRM 667
          BDRM 667 14 January 2016 08: 44
          +5
          Quote: Ami du peuple
          This version seems interesting:


          And more honest with respect to the thousands of dead civilians and the ruined and plundered by the Nazis Donbass.
          1. Stasi
            Stasi April 27 2020 10: 05
            +2
            Quote: BDRM 667
            And more honest with respect to the thousands of dead civilians and the ruined and plundered by the Nazis Donbass.

            About honesty whom?
        3. Stirbjorn
          Stirbjorn 14 January 2016 11: 34
          +4
          Quote: Ami du peuple
          or Poroshenko’s Ukrainian cunning, along with the booty, militias of Donbass.
          yeah, they’ve taken it right away and tore it off. take a look at the map though. What nonsense at all negative
      2. 406ppm2gv
        406ppm2gv 15 January 2016 17: 08
        0
        in my opinion, if Banana called VVP, then it would be rang out on all channels "that on Banana's personal initiative", and so it's the other way around. that's what makes me think ...
    3. vlad66
      vlad66 14 January 2016 06: 27
      13
      Quote: izya top
      Today, Petya will press conference. I’ll put a can of water in front of the screen, but what if?

      Better put a bottle of vodka, suddenly Petruha will stop drinking and stop donning Donbass. hi
      1. Egoza
        Egoza 14 January 2016 09: 04
        +4
        Quote: vlad66
        suddenly Petruha will stop drinking and stop firing Donbass. hi

        "You won't wait!" Here the guy dreams that he is the reincarnation of Bandera and Mazepa! In all seriousness. I BELIEVE! Mazepa's spirit says that the most important thing is to get out in time, and Bandera's spirit whispers that you can sit well in a German prison. Oh, those spirits! They won't tell you. than both gentlemen finished. But Petya should know this from history. That is why the poor drink! Well, where can he go if he is the reincarnation of both!
    4. V.ic
      V.ic 14 January 2016 06: 33
      0
      Quote: izya top
      put a can of water in front of the screen

      Again "dry"?
    5. Kos_kalinki9
      Kos_kalinki9 14 January 2016 07: 26
      +1
      Do you think it will turn into alcohol ???
      1. Dembel77
        Dembel77 14 January 2016 08: 13
        35
        izya top (4) RU Today, 06:02 AM New
        Today, Petya will press conference. I will put a can of water in front of the screen, but what if?
        I can’t even look at this Poroshenko’s TV, even if I get on my knees, I won’t forgive. Did you forget that these bandits in Lugansk did
        02.06.2014/18/00, XNUMX:XNUMX When applying an airstrike on the building of the Lugansk Regional State Administration, cluster bombs were used. This was reported to ITAR-TASS in the Lugansk People’s Republic.

        Recall that at least five people died as a result of an air raid of the Ukrainian Air Force on the regional administration in Lugansk.

        After an airstrike, a strong fire began in the building. Doctors and rescuers work on the spot, the number of victims is being specified. Militias fear that air raids will continue.
        Put a jar of blood of those killed by order of this nits Poroshenko in front of your TV, maybe the dead will come to life !? Funny to them !!!
        1. domokl
          domokl 14 January 2016 11: 46
          -5
          The war ... just like now, some Svidomo is talking about you ... And he is also looking at the photo ...
          We soldiers do not start and end wars. we are just soldiers. and it’s our business to kill the enemy and defend our own. It is clear that those who are now at the forefront will never forgive. on both sides.
          That's why politicians should talk. Otherwise, the war to a victorious end. more precisely, to the complete destruction of one of the parties. Do you need this?
          Quote: Dembel 77
          even kneel down - I will not forgive.
          1. revnagan
            revnagan 14 January 2016 12: 50
            16
            Quote: domokl
            The war ... just like now, some Svidomo is talking about you ... And he is also looking at the photo ...

            What photo? The dead children of Lviv and the women of Ternopil? Did Donetsk planes bomb them? Did their schools and hospitals destroy Lugansk artillery? The soldier remains a soldier until he fights with his own kind. After he deliberately destroys the civilian population of his country , the infrastructure of his country, he loses the right to be called a soldier. Now he is a punisher and a war criminal.
            1. domokl
              domokl 14 January 2016 14: 16
              -3
              Quote: revnagan
              Are they bombed by Donetsk planes?

              From the point of view of the mother whose son died, her grief is much more than anything else ... And about the conscious destruction ... I talked with such. The answer is simple - we shoot for many kilometers and coordinates. So neither I nor the horse are mine ...
              You think in terms of human morality. Peaceful, to some extent ... Let me bring a question from the test for special forces of one of the armies.
              When performing a task, your group was noticed by an 5-7 summer boy. Your actions ... This is war. Dirty, in blood and shit, not fair and nasty to the whole human way of life ...
              1. dzeredzavkomimu
                dzeredzavkomimu 14 January 2016 22: 55
                0
                so maybe in vain the Nazis were tried and hanged at 45?
          2. Petrol
            Petrol 14 January 2016 14: 06
            +3
            domokl
            war is a world of courage
            and the brave is a god for a coward!
            just destroy it, otherwise ...
            "if you do not kill the wounded enemy, then after a while he will kill your grandson, Russia is alive with children!" - Oleg the Prophet, speeches are important.
            1. domokl
              domokl 14 January 2016 14: 19
              0
              Quote: Benzin
              war is a world of courage
              and the brave is a god for a coward!

              Maybe you are right. Only I had a different impression. War is a world of luck ... Especially in the offensive. Lucky no luck ...
              I know examples when cowards in the war performed feats. Conversely, excellent commanders lost whole units due to their recklessness
              1. CONTROL
                CONTROL 14 January 2016 14: 46
                +1
                Quote: domokl
                War is a world of luck ... Lucky no luck ...

                ... Stop being baptized, wailing -
                The saint will not save you
                Mother of God:
                The one who throws the wheel and oars,
                Tech Hard brings -
                So it is!!
                V.S. Vysotsky
              2. c3r
                c3r 15 January 2016 05: 23
                0
                The warriors gathered on the Internet and we are taught green folks to combat experience. I’ll go through the thoughts of the great ones on a PSU come in handy! soldier
              3. Petrol
                Petrol 15 January 2016 12: 33
                0
                when the senior commander behind the youngest head (with all his relatives) will bear the answer, then no one will be lost and forgotten!
          3. dzeredzavkomimu
            dzeredzavkomimu 14 January 2016 22: 53
            0
            thought at least what he wrote? soldier he ... s?
      2. izya top
        izya top 14 January 2016 16: 48
        +1
        Quote: Kos_kalinki9
        Do you think it will turn into alcohol ???

        aha fellowmoreover, all three liters
        1. Kos_kalinki9
          Kos_kalinki9 14 January 2016 18: 14
          0
          From Petrutchio only methyl can form.
    6. sa-zz
      sa-zz 14 January 2016 08: 34
      +1
      Quote: izya top
      Today, Petya will press conference. I will put a can of water in front of the screen, but what if? ..

      Be careful with this ... although you can try it on mice and cockroaches, most likely you can get rid of them in this way. lol
      1. domokl
        domokl 14 January 2016 11: 47
        +1
        Quote: sa-zz
        . although you can try on mice and cockroaches,

        laughing We have one familiar cockroach here ... I think there are enough mice .. The cockroach hurts really well
    7. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 14 January 2016 11: 14
      0
      Quote: izya top
      Today, Petya will press conference. I will put a can of water in front of the screen, but what if?

      The main thing is do not put a jar of vodka - it dries out directly from the screen. smile
    8. northern
      northern 14 January 2016 14: 45
      0
      Quote: iza top
      Today, Petya will press conference. I will put a can of water in front of the screen, but what if? .. what

      Don’t bet, the water will recover, the jar will crack
    9. The comment was deleted.
    10. Megatron
      Megatron 15 January 2016 08: 55
      0
      Honestly, Gryzlov - I am just disgusted as the chairman of the edra. Worse than him - only Chubais and hunchbacks!
  2. smel
    smel 14 January 2016 06: 11
    +1
    Wait and see. But it is clear that there are no more people wishing to pay for the banquet. Ukraine will have to earn money.
  3. Darkboy2012
    Darkboy2012 14 January 2016 06: 13
    +1
    put it without water - they will pull it apart ...))
  4. Darkboy2012
    Darkboy2012 14 January 2016 06: 14
    +1
    and the bank away ...))
  5. venaya
    venaya 14 January 2016 06: 15
    +2
    ... waiting for news from Poroshenko

    Poroshenko has been sitting in such a situation for a long time that he won’t get anywhere, even the help from Obama is no longer able to solve his problems, so we are waiting, maybe he will really find a way out of his current situation on his own, not really relying on overseas prompts.
  6. Stinger
    Stinger 14 January 2016 06: 15
    +4
    Yeah.
    “We strangely met and strangely dispersed,
    With a tender smile, our romance is over. ”
    V. Vysotsky
  7. tnk1969
    tnk1969 14 January 2016 06: 20
    +3
    Gryzlov’s arrival is unlikely to give anything. In my opinion, the visit was due to the fact that the Rabbit made it clear that gas discounts and the final price of gas ukro404 are not satisfied. And so Millers and Co. urgently decided to find out, and then what was the fate of Russian gas transit? After all, ukro404 has already raised its price. And now it may still begin to steal again or even limit it altogether.
  8. afdjhbn67
    afdjhbn67 14 January 2016 06: 23
    +2
    Gryzlov, a person rather than Patryshev - his classmate, a masterpiece "thinker" and a fighter against "werewolves" .. was chosen so as not to greatly infuriate the Ukrainians, because Surkov, as the curator on the Russian side of the "Ukraine project", is hardly capable of constructive dialogue, but to convey the thoughts of Putin and Gryzlov came in handy .. (sort of like in business)
    1. Alexl
      Alexl 14 January 2016 09: 55
      +7
      Everything is easier. Surkov is a protege of the Yeltsin oligarchy, and Gryzlov is a protege of the Putin oligarchy.
      1. Oldwiser
        Oldwiser 14 January 2016 10: 31
        +2
        Yeltsin's "Muscovites" vs Putin's "Petersburgers"?
  9. avg-mgn
    avg-mgn 14 January 2016 06: 26
    +1
    Hint to brainless Kiev
    Lay Crimea under the guarantees of the European Union, it’s supposedly yours. Here you have a bunch of grandmas and give (probably).
    Joke (probably).
    1. voyaka uh
      voyaka uh 14 January 2016 09: 40
      -3
      There is such an option: rent for 100 years.
      As England and China had about Hong Kong.
      1. orthodox71
        orthodox71 14 January 2016 11: 55
        +4
        Hope free rental? Or who will pay the rent? And the Crimeans refused such formulations, Crimea - Russia and no nails, specifically and without inconsistencies
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 14 January 2016 12: 16
          -10 qualifying.
          These are already details. The wording "rent", removes the wording
          "accession and aggression", which means it removes sanctions from Russia.
          With the Reserve Fund running low, oil is low,
          and loans are covered by sanctions - "rent for 100 years" is not the worst
          output. The de facto Crimea remains with Russia, and de jure - peaceful
          legal agreement with Ukraine.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. BDRM 667
            BDRM 667 14 January 2016 12: 40
            +4
            Quote: voyaka uh
            These are already details. The wording "rent", removes the wording
            "accession and aggression", which means it removes sanctions from Russia.
            With the Reserve Fund running low, oil is low,
            and loans are covered by sanctions - "rent for 100 years" is not the worst
            output. The de facto Crimea remains with Russia, and de jure - peaceful
            legal agreement with Ukraine.


            Well, how do you imagine the "coexistence" of an openly nationalist and anti-Russian ruler in this MOST RUSSIAN REGION, which has further strengthened its Russian choice against the backdrop of Maidan and Donbass?

            By the way, authors of analytics are also silent about this in the article, raising pigs to the post of president of federal Ukraine, and without specifying how in this case the issue will be resolved with the suppression of fascist manifestations elevated to the rank of state policy and its influence on the Donbass.
            1. Stasi
              Stasi April 27 2020 10: 07
              +2
              Quote: BDRM 667
              Well, how do you imagine the "coexistence" of an openly nationalist and anti-Russian ruler in this MOST RUSSIAN REGION, which has further strengthened its Russian choice against the backdrop of Maidan and Donbass?

              Yes, it just does, nonsense of idiots.
          3. kaluganew
            kaluganew 14 January 2016 13: 24
            +2
            No one will do it. Rather, we will eat grass or hunt pigeons.
          4. orthodox71
            orthodox71 14 January 2016 15: 00
            +2
            In your opinion, the wording of the sanction removes, not Obama? Yes, even as you name it, sanctions are not because of the name of the action or even because of the action, but because we exist and don’t want to give up. I wonder where you, warrior, grabbed so many pluses to get such a title here, sang in the wind, probably shkolota
          5. fif21
            fif21 14 January 2016 16: 54
            +2
            Quote: voyaka uh
            "rent for 100 years" is not a bad way out.
            Are there any problems? What you offer is a time bomb for Russia of the 22nd century. And who will be wetted in rented land? They act with it as the Chinese do in the Volga region - 3 years of rent and 20 years to grow there will be nothing more. By the way, when does the lease of land for the artificially created UN state of Israel on the Polistinsky lands expire?
          6. The comment was deleted.
  10. Korsar4
    Korsar4 14 January 2016 06: 30
    +9
    I liked only the paragraph on the first and other proposals of the President. Well, if there is power behind all this. But in general - fortune telling on coffee grounds. Not enough information.
  11. Ivanly
    Ivanly 14 January 2016 06: 30
    +1
    In any case, the Ukrainian "shreds" are bursting at the seams, neither Parashenko nor the State Department will be able to hold back this crunchy process without Russia. The dream of the farm Fuhrer of ukraine, that the tundra is beyond the northern borders of NENKI, did not come true ...
  12. oldav
    oldav 14 January 2016 06: 31
    +7
    What can be negotiations with inadequate psychopaths?
  13. cuzmin.mihail2013
    cuzmin.mihail2013 14 January 2016 06: 32
    0
    If Petya wants it, it doesn’t mean it will work out. Besides him, there is a cloud of authorities!
  14. Balagan
    Balagan 14 January 2016 06: 34
    0
    The events of the next two months will show what these guys agreed to.
  15. aba
    aba 14 January 2016 06: 34
    +5
    And this is not a "drain", as some readers like to shout, this is the harsh reality of our days. We will not pull.


    Of course not draining, of course!
    But one thing is not clear how the USSR pulled everyone and how the inhabitants of Donbass themselves would react to this ?!
    1. Anita
      Anita 14 January 2016 08: 47
      +3
      Sorry for my French, but you compared something with a finger. THE USSR - union republics with a single constitution, now Russia in commonwealth with some of them.
      1. Sergej1972
        Sergej1972 14 January 2016 10: 45
        +4
        Partly we can agree. But the republics in the Soviet Socialist Republic were different in territory, population, and economic potential. The RSFSR accounted for more than half of the population, three quarters of the territory, about 60% of industry in general, and about 70% of heavy industry. More than three quarters of the military-industrial complex were also on the territory of the RSFSR. In industrial science, the share of the RSFSR was 70-80%, in fundamental science even higher. That is, in most indicators, the RSFSR exceeded all other 14 republics combined, and in many exceeded by several times.
        1. Andrew
          Andrew 14 January 2016 12: 36
          +1
          Quite right, and all Asians were completely raised from zero, what a comparison can be with the Donbass ...
      2. bondarencko
        bondarencko 15 January 2016 03: 36
        0
        And sorry to you! Each Soviet Republic had its own Constitution! And, oh, horror, His foreign minister. And Ukraine and Belarus, like Russia, were founders and members of the UN, and only because of the objections of our "partners" Lithuania did not enter Livadia.
    2. Beaver
      Beaver 14 January 2016 18: 27
      +4
      Quote: aba
      it’s not clear how the USSR pulled everyone

      In the USSR, "effective managers" were absent as a class. hi
  16. parusnik
    parusnik 14 January 2016 06: 42
    +2
    The answer will give, the development of the situation in the Donbass ...
  17. Ros 56
    Ros 56 14 January 2016 06: 49
    +4
    Well, this is a good thing, even though people will stop dying.
    But frankly, I can hardly imagine what language Galichina will communicate with the Donbass, not in the sense of Russian or Ukrainian, but how they will find a common language.
    The second, apparently, there must necessarily be a purge, because in any settlement controlled by Kiev, political terror was carried out for those who did not support the official authorities, even down to the murder, and this is not forgiven for decades. In short, all this is complicated.
    1. Egoza
      Egoza 14 January 2016 09: 09
      +3
      Quote: Ros 56
      even though people stop dying.

      But no one guarantees this. There have already been brought so many bandits that worse than shelling will kill people.
    2. Oldwiser
      Oldwiser 14 January 2016 10: 37
      +6
      Quote: Ros 56
      must be cleaned,

      And not one!
      French Revolution - first the Girondins executed the royal couple, then the Jacobins (Danton, Robespierre and Chaumette with Ebert) dealt with the Gironda; then the left (Chaumette and Hebert) revolted and had to be dealt with too; then the center (Robespierre) had to deal with the rightists (Danton, Desmoulins), then the swamp dealt with Robespierre, and then General Bonaparte completely dealt with the convention and the republic as a "class" ...
      An instructive thing is history ...
  18. sergeyzzz
    sergeyzzz 14 January 2016 06: 54
    +1
    The proverb "let the goat into the garden" can be paraphrased as follows: let the monkey into the white house, the whole world will walk on its ears. am
  19. Al_oriso
    Al_oriso 14 January 2016 06: 55
    +3
    Gryzlov’s invitation and Obama’s telephone with Putin are links in one chain. The United States continues to put pressure on Russia, first indirectly, and then directly. What comes out of it - wait and see.
    1. Alexl
      Alexl 14 January 2016 09: 54
      -1
      This will turn Putin's next pathetic bleating about partners.
  20. inkass_98
    inkass_98 14 January 2016 06: 55
    14
    But in a fever, Ukrainian rulers forgot that the President of Russia always adheres to the same strategy: if your first proposal - and it is usually white and fluffy for your opponent - is rudely rejected, then after some time another, much tougher and fall much less pleasant. And it will not be rejected already, because it will be formulated in other circumstances.

    Gentlemen are the authors, the article is good, but the question arises - who is tying whole paragraphs of text with no references to authorship (I have cited part of the text as an example, borrowing more) - Skogorev (hedgehogs) from Politicus with you or you with Skogoreva?
    http://politikus.ru/articles/67448-vizit-borisa-gryzlova-ili-nelegkaya-sudba-mar
    ionetki.html
    However plagiarism is not a good thing hi
  21. Great-grandfather of Zeus
    Great-grandfather of Zeus 14 January 2016 07: 00
    +4
    If you wanted normal results, then they would not send an ass, but an adequate one. This is clearly a parashka brought inulgence-type for a view, we will break down and "rebuild" three lards for you, or even write off under the noise of a wave .. there is nothing good to wait for a rodent-gryzlov do not do it.
  22. 33 Watcher
    33 Watcher 14 January 2016 07: 01
    -1
    Gryzlov is an experienced and competent person. Most likely prompted a way out of the current situation, they say Petya do it this way and that way, and then imagine it as your own political help ... There is no way out, you can jump and scream, but it gets worse and worse. He probably told him that Petya had enough to do nonsense, get involved in adult politics. Your country will not survive another change of power. Well, let's see how now Petya will start to behave, what to say, what to do ...
  23. samarin1969
    samarin1969 14 January 2016 07: 03
    +9
    “But you will have to pay for this by the fact that these territories will remain a part of Ukraine (!!!). But - on different conditions than before. It is clear that in other regions they think that they are no worse, and also want independence. But it is also clear that Donbass will have to give more than everyone else.

    Will the Donbass benefit (!!!) from this? Definitely (!), Yes "(!!!)

    The article by respected authors pursues purely LAWYER goals, alas ... am
    1. fif21
      fif21 14 January 2016 08: 27
      13
      Quote: samarin1969
      But it is also clear that Donbass will have to give more than everyone else. Will the Donbass benefit (!!!) from this? Definitely (!), Yes "(!!!)
      Donbass as a part of Ukraine? Here you have a grandmother and St. George’s Day request There is only one compromise solution - Donbass is not part of Russia, but also not part of Ukraine. And I would like to ask respected analysts - what will the Donbass win? Because of fears for your life and the life of your friends and relatives you have to leave for Russia?
      1. older
        older 14 January 2016 14: 41
        -4
        Quote: fif21
        There is only one compromise solution - Donbass is not part of Russia, but also not part of Ukraine.

        Cool, but I don't want to feed Donbass anymore. I can't be more precise. The salary was already cut. And the child is growing. Will the Donetsk people be able to feed themselves? Doubtful. Too everything is tied to Ukraine. So I have 2 more to tighten the belt "? So then there is only a ridge left ... Let's break to hell ...
        1. padded jacket
          padded jacket 14 January 2016 14: 45
          +5
          Quote: older
          .Only I don’t want to feed the Donbass anymore.

          And what do you personally feed him? Do you have a special tax in your salary - to feed the Donbass?
          1. padded jacket
            padded jacket 14 January 2016 14: 53
            -1
            Vladimir Putin, well done that he saved the Crimea and now the Donbass saves him a lot of humanity for it - Thank you.
            And what he is doing now, trying, despite the US opposition, to save the people of Donbass from new hostilities, deserves the respect and appreciation of the people of our country.
            But if the DB, despite all the efforts of Moscow, nevertheless begins, I will "pity" Poroshenko's army and the responsibility for the death of civilians, including, will fall entirely on the United States and its satellites.
        2. dzeredzavkomimu
          dzeredzavkomimu 14 January 2016 23: 01
          +1
          just like the Ukrainians screamed that they feed Russia, they have heard the dearest of them? you feed exclusively your employers, and so on to the top of our government, like we all
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Normal ok
        Normal ok 14 January 2016 15: 03
        0
        [quote = fif21] [quote = samarin1969] And I would like to ask dear analysts - what will Donbass win? The fact that because of fears for their own lives and the lives of loved ones will have to leave for Russia? [/ Quote]

        Facts are a stubborn thing. But the fact is, in October, the FMS of Russia stated that refugees began to actively return to Ukraine:
        http://tass.ru/obschestvo/2331336
        1. samarin1969
          samarin1969 14 January 2016 17: 36
          +2
          Dear, you did not notice quotes, this is a quote from the article ...
          For me, no "patriotoeconomists" will justify the betrayal of Donbass.
          Even Yushchenko said that there is nothing Ukrainian in the Donbass and the Crimea ...
          It is economically more profitable to release the Caucasus into independence.
        2. dzeredzavkomimu
          dzeredzavkomimu 14 January 2016 23: 03
          0
          not to Ukraine but to the DPR and LPR, from Ukraine we are not refugees, but are guest workers and hucksters
    2. The comment was deleted.
  24. Cartman
    Cartman 14 January 2016 07: 17
    0
    So Lyashka after all said that Gryzlov met with Kuch.my and not with Poroshenko.
  25. The comment was deleted.
  26. BLOND
    BLOND 14 January 2016 07: 32
    +9
    The article aroused mixed feelings ...
    - oh and dirty this is a matter of politics, but geopolitics ....
    - raising a yellow-black rag for residents of Donbass in Lugansk and Donetsk cannot be called a shock, closer to the apocalypse
    - the meeting in Kiev between P. and G. is more like the beginning of a soft drain of the Outskirts ... The drain initiates Moscow, and the main focus of tension is Kiev with a move towards the western side (my opinion: Petya was given to you to the law-abductors ... otherwise they already delayed by time, and Fashington in the know and not against it, they think that they will hang the whole outskirts with debts on the neck of Russia)

    P.S. how will we actually see, I know one May Day will take place in a peaceful Donbass, that I can’t say about the whole Outskirts!
  27. Yuri VO
    Yuri VO 14 January 2016 07: 34
    -7
    Yes, everything is fine, men!
  28. aszzz888
    aszzz888 14 January 2016 07: 45
    0
    The first swallows in the new year from Minsk-2. Immediately agreed on an exchange of prisoners, a ceasefire. We'll see. how will the ukronatsiks perform it. And about the visit of Gryzlov to Kiev - time will tell.
    1. Stirbjorn
      Stirbjorn 14 January 2016 11: 37
      +5
      Quote: aszzz888
      Immediately agreed on an exchange of prisoners, a ceasefire.

      Bgggg, actually, we agreed about this a year ago, and as if puffing up to show that this is being done. While 0 is full from Gryzlov’s trip, take off the pink glasses.
  29. Cobra77
    Cobra77 14 January 2016 07: 47
    24
    Intrigue however. But I think it will be clear in the next six months. The author did not include Poroshenko's lack of independence into consideration. Shakiness of the chair underneath. The fact that he cannot drain Avakov or Yatsenyuk so simply, they themselves can drain him in exactly the same way. Americans will not refuse to support Ukraine, it is cheap, and there is a lot of fun. The instrument of pressure on the RF is simply excellent. Well, we must also remember about the oil price of $ 30. This price does not contribute to the resilience of our "elites" from the Gaidar forums .... But it should also be taken into account that the return of Donbass to Ukraine, even as a republic with broad autonomy, will be perceived by many, especially in the Donbass itself, as a drain and defeat of the Russian Federation. They will ask an unpleasant question - what did they fight for, what did people die for?
    1. heal
      heal 14 January 2016 08: 33
      +5
      Quote: cobra77
      Well, we must also remember about the oil price of $ 30. This price does not contribute to the resilience of our "elites" from the Gaidar forums ....

      You might think that they were persistent at a price of $ 100 per barrel.
    2. Oldwiser
      Oldwiser 14 January 2016 12: 45
      +1
      Quote: cobra77
      What did they fight for, why did people die?


      Presumably - for the "federalization of ruins"
    3. older
      older 14 January 2016 14: 44
      0
      Quote: cobra77
      the return of Donbass to Ukraine, even as a republic with wide autonomy, will be perceived by very many, especially in the Donbas itself, as a drain and defeat of the Russian Federation

      Huh ... are those 30 with the extra thousand that are now at the forefront, under the bullets .. and the remaining millions? Donbass is tired of the war for nothing ... Therefore, tear it up today
  30. Viktor fm
    Viktor fm 14 January 2016 08: 00
    +9
    Well in the USSR, history was taught. But this story goes much easier. The oligarchy both here and on the outskirts. Hence, we dance, to whom it is profitable financially, he pulls there. But not a single true capitalist can resist high profits; everything else is evil, the days of socialism are over.
  31. avva2012
    avva2012 14 January 2016 08: 02
    +6
    And maybe they agreed on the Act of unconditional surrender of the former USSR?
    I don’t know how anyone, but the article didn’t cause anything but negative for me. How can one imagine the federalization of people who were bombarded yesterday with those who were bombarded? Where are the crowds that rejoiced in our blown up plane? Someone will officially abandon the Crimea? Yes, most likely there will be a new Maidan, then. Maybe I didn’t understand what?
    1. BDRM 667
      BDRM 667 14 January 2016 09: 34
      +6
      Quote: avva2012
      How can one imagine the federalization of people who were bombarded yesterday with those who were bombarded? Where are the crowds that rejoiced in our blown up plane? Someone will officially abandon the Crimea? Yes, most likely there will be a new Maidan, then. Maybe I didn’t understand what?


      In his right mind, it is really difficult to link up in "federalization" and "peaceful settlement", processes in which the deaths of people are not taken into account, and the question of the responsibility of the nationalist-fascist clique at the head of the bucket is not raised ...
      Moreover, some people see the bloody pig as a kind of compromise, negotiable, and ALREADY HAND-SHAKED figure in the head of "Unitary Ukraine" despite the blood of thousands and thousands on its snout.

      Azarov looks even more perverted at the head of the Cabinet in conjunction with the president of parashenko ...
      1. BARKHAN
        BARKHAN 14 January 2016 11: 07
        +9
        "Federalization" in any form is a drain on the republics.
        Let me explain my thought: Will the Nazis disappear somewhere after the "federalization", or will the Armed Forces of Ukraine move away from the republics? Or maybe the pro-Western politicians will leave power?
        If the border passes under the control of Bandera’s, that’s it. And what about the thousands of dead? Well, imagine the entry of the right-wingers in Donetsk ...
        The end of LDNR is the end of Russia! This is a betrayal that has no analogues in history. Why then did you have to climb there?
        Or having given the republic, we suddenly become friends of Bandera? Or friends of Americans with Europeans?
        Our government will not survive such a shame. Next, what's next? Give the Kuril Islands? Kaliningrad?
        1. BDRM 667
          BDRM 667 14 January 2016 11: 37
          +4
          Quote: Barkhan
          The end of LDNR is the end of Russia! This is a betrayal that has no analogues in history.


          So far, no one has surrendered anyone yet, but the fuss with the junta is alarming ... Somehow 2016 started on the wrong foot, and this is alarming ...

          Unfortunately, we are not in a position to influence what the Kremlin has planned (if the “conceived” is what the authors of the article represent).
          It remains to wait, and hope that these actions will not lead to destabilization of Russia already ...

          Quote: Barkhan
          Our government will not survive such a shame.
          1. BARKHAN
            BARKHAN 14 January 2016 12: 14
            13
            Quote: BDRM 667
            It remains to wait, and hope that these actions will not lead to destabilization of Russia already ...

            Here I am about this. First, to trumpet about "Russian Spring", about Novorossiya, about "Russian World". To pump up a lot of money, technology, human lives, giving the people a dream ... And? Now what? ... Kicks the LDNR back to Popryglyandia? Or maybe at this price they pulled attention away from Crimea?
            My firm opinion, earlier and now, is that the signing of the Minsk agreements is a betrayal of the interests of the Russians! It was then when the punitive forces were defeated and it was possible to suppress them and the militias were stopped ...
            Perhaps this is the cunning plan of the Kremlin ... But it is possible that the KP of the fifth column ... After all, after the drain, no one will ever believe the Russians. After all, at all times it was said ... "The Russians do not abandon their own!"
            So let's see if the Russians are their own Kremlin.
            1. BDRM 667
              BDRM 667 14 January 2016 12: 57
              +3
              Quote: Barkhan
              .AND? Now what? ... kicks to push LDNR back to Popryglyandii?


              That's it, these attempts at all costs to drive, without considering the consequences of such "reintegration" with a part of Ukraine controlled by the Nazis for Donbass, and there is meanness in relation to the dead and oppressed and a blow to YOURSELF "UNDER-BREATED" with the most unpredictable consequences for the Russian Federation ...
          2. older
            older 14 January 2016 14: 49
            0
            Quote: BDRM 667
            It remains to wait, and hope that these actions will not lead to destabilization of Russia already ...

            But this is nonsense. what is destabilization when everything is exactly the opposite? In general, the question to pass or not to pass the Donbass should decide themselves Donetsk. If they broke dill by the first number, then the question would not have stood. And chewing snot leads exactly to what they came to today ..
            And today, Ukraine and Donetsk are no longer players .. They are pawns that can only theoretically become ladies .. This is the opposite
        2. PHANTOM-AS
          PHANTOM-AS 14 January 2016 11: 47
          +5
          Quote: Barkhan
          Federalization "in any form is a drain on the republics.
          Let me explain my thought. But after the "federalization" the Nazis will disappear somewhere?

          There is another question, where in the event of "federalization" will Mariupol or SlAvyansk go?
          And how will the people of Donbass live with a bucket as a prezik?
        3. The comment was deleted.
      2. Stasi
        Stasi April 27 2020 10: 09
        +2
        Quote: BDRM 667
        In their right mind, it's really hard to get bogged down in "federalization" and "peace settlement"

        Who can confirm that the authors are sane or not paid?
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Normal ok
      Normal ok 14 January 2016 15: 14
      -2
      Quote: avva2012
      I don’t know how anyone, but the article didn’t cause anything but negative for me. How can one imagine the federalization of people who were bombarded yesterday with those who were bombarded?

      Judging by the situation on TV over the past 2 years, then of course it is impossible to imagine. But I spoke with refugees from the Donbass and I can say: people are certainly embittered (and against Ukraine, but also against the Russian Federation, too, something that has accumulated), but they are ready to live and work as part of Ukraine. If only the war ended.
  32. Dr. Barmaley
    Dr. Barmaley 14 January 2016 08: 03
    +1
    Nobody wants to pay for the banquet.
  33. Riv
    Riv 14 January 2016 08: 14
    -4
    What interests me in this context is something completely different: is the railway line through Millerovo not bypassing Ukraine completed? If so, then it becomes possible to quickly maneuver heavy equipment from the DPR to the northern border of Ukraine. Then Gryzlov definitely came with an ultimatum.

    The attack of tank units from the north, to Slavyansk ... The border is bare, all the fortified areas of ukrov are much east and south. Slavyansk is the main local transport hub and is also not covered by anything except the garrison. The boiler will turn out somewhere in a quarter of Ukraine.
    1. Cerbercon
      Cerbercon 14 January 2016 08: 38
      0
      With tanks through Millerovo, the stump is clear, not an option, but Petya is about to surprise)
    2. avva2012
      avva2012 14 January 2016 08: 40
      +1
      Your words, to God’s ears. Maybe everything is so?
      But why did the authorities get water in their mouths? If the visit is no longer a secret. And, if they wanted secretly, then they would have concocted a visit differently. Airplane at the airport. The inscription on the entire board of Russia. I don’t understand a damn thing.
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. BDRM 667
      BDRM 667 14 January 2016 11: 56
      +1
      Quote: Riv
      What interests me in this context is something completely different: is the railway line through Millerovo not bypassing Ukraine completed? If so, then it becomes possible to quickly maneuver heavy equipment from the DPR to the northern border of Ukraine.


      I can imagine the way Churkin declares to the UN that the LDN militia has occupied part of the territory of Russia and using troops infrastructure has deployed troops across the territory of the Russian Federation laughing belay
      1. Stasi
        Stasi April 27 2020 10: 11
        +2
        Quote: BDRM 667
        I can imagine the way Churkin declares to the UN that the LDN militia has occupied part of the territory of Russia and using troops infrastructure has deployed troops across the territory of the Russian Federation

        No, Churkin is more with us, as there is actually no Russian action against the Nazis.
    5. older
      older 14 January 2016 14: 52
      +1
      Quote: Riv
      Slavyansk is the main local transport hub and is also not covered by anything except the garrison. The boiler will turn out somewhere in a quarter of Ukraine.

      Nonsense. How do you imagine a boiler, where there are many more people who were taken into this boiler than those who drove them there ...
  34. Infernal man
    Infernal man 14 January 2016 08: 34
    21
    Hmm, hard times are coming. You analyze everything that is happening now in the world in different areas and it becomes alarming.
    Notice how suddenly the movement started abruptly? They were beating and spitting in the blood, but now they’re almost cuddling. Everyone was quiet, removed the ambition and abruptly began to negotiate. Why all of a sudden?
    On the other hand, this is good. Better a bad peace than a good war, but dissonance arises - and for what then was everything done? So many dead, wounded, so many distorted lives, so many people left their homes, having lost everything and for what? For the sake of another "and we are for sho?" ...
    I have long been terribly upset by our political impotence and unscrupulousness. You will see - we will forgive everything and forget everything.
    And soon we will begin to provide friendly assistance to the Kaklams, then hugs and brotherly love with the Turks will begin, etc. We’re still looking pen-and-peer into the eyes, partners ....
    But there are things that must not be forgotten. And you can’t forgive. For Ukraine, this is May 2 and the Donbass.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. udachin
      udachin 14 January 2016 14: 37
      0
      It’s hardly with the Turks already. The scribe is waiting for them as concrete as it seems to me.
      But with our brothers from the outskirts will have to somehow interact. Only the Ukrainian virus will inevitably have to be treated. Burn with a hot iron. some comrades. Especially frostbitten would be nice to send to the Almighty ahead of schedule. And evil spirits, infectious and frostbitten there oh how much. How this problem will be solved will be a big question for me.
      Best regards hi
  35. vladimirvn
    vladimirvn 14 January 2016 08: 46
    0
    Beautiful! good
    Quote: Riv
    What interests me in this context is something completely different: is the railway line through Millerovo not bypassing Ukraine completed? If so, then it becomes possible to quickly maneuver heavy equipment from the DPR to the northern border of Ukraine. Then Gryzlov definitely came with an ultimatum.

    The attack of tank units from the north, to Slavyansk ... The border is bare, all the fortified areas of ukrov are much east and south. Slavyansk is the main local transport hub and is also not covered by anything except the garrison. The boiler will turn out somewhere in a quarter of Ukraine.
  36. Wolka
    Wolka 14 January 2016 08: 56
    +1
    and the Ukrainians will not ruin anything again, since this tribe is historically incapable of independent thinking and assessing the situation (apparently this was fixed at the genetic level, it has never been and will never be a leading nation, only a led one), therefore it’s only a show-off, an external entourage And Russia will have to rake up this pile of manure again, it’s a shame, but Russia is historically arranged, it will give the last piece to the one who betrayed it, so as not to die, but to keep its fist shut up.
  37. gingerbread man 59
    gingerbread man 59 14 January 2016 08: 57
    +6
    what the fuck federalizatsyya.konfideratsyya. they prevent us from shit and we climb to kiss them. only because Abkhazia and Ossetia, the creation of their own state is not given to another.
  38. Halfunra
    Halfunra 14 January 2016 08: 58
    +3
    As my friend misinterpreted the sayings: "they count eight chickens."
    All these constructions of the mind, also with an eye on Washington’s reaction.
    in the restaurant, and in the restaurant,
    and there are the Masons, and there are the Muslims. hi
  39. ankir13
    ankir13 14 January 2016 09: 01
    +5
    Peter must be judged, but for good, put on a stake at the end of the process. And his other rabbits, teddy bears, arsics, side by side, lower, but together. And it is necessary to agree with PEOPLE after a fair trial ....
  40. The comment was deleted.
  41. stopkran
    stopkran 14 January 2016 09: 30
    +3
    The author of the article misunderstands something.
    1. From practice, the entire management of Schenevmerla is absolutely non-negotiable.

    2. If you agree with anyone, then only with the US Ambassador to / in Ukraine, without Waltzman - an alcoholized strip, but taking into account paragraph 1.
    1. older
      older 14 January 2016 14: 54
      0
      laughing It is necessary to observe the politeness ... Usraina is there. The country ....
  42. Yegorchik
    Yegorchik 14 January 2016 09: 51
    +4
    Well, the first part of the action, the destruction of reputable commanders of the militia, was carried out by Mr. Putin without noise and dust. Now that there are only those who do not rock the boat, the main part, the forcible pushing of Donbass back to Ukraine, begins. Well, and under this thing, different clowners and buffoons will sculpt articles about the cunning plan and Putin’s overthrow.
  43. kit-kat
    kit-kat 14 January 2016 09: 56
    +9
    And this is not a "drain", as some readers like to shout, this is the harsh reality of our days. We will not pull.

    I wonder what does it look like? If initially there were completely different slogans and other goals, but now, frankly, Donbass is being held hostage, whatever one may say. Today they - u.kr. - comply with the agreements, and tomorrow, as has happened before, they will say that they wanted to spit on all agreements. And they will transcend to a new round of violence. How many people will die before being forced to behave again? Spit at me, but I don't see anything other than the "plum".
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 14 January 2016 10: 14
      +3
      Wait, what is the drain? Who wrote the article, Putin and Medvedev? Maybe we read the official release of the Foreign Ministry? Two people with no more information than ours had a little fantasy. Maybe even with intent. Stop!
      It is necessary to take drops of three hundred and four hundred, exhale, sniff for a crust.
      1. Stirbjorn
        Stirbjorn 14 January 2016 11: 39
        0
        Yeah, it’s nice to pick up articles over the past couple of months, the tones were much darker there.
  44. mpzss
    mpzss 14 January 2016 09: 56
    +2
    "What Gryzlov and Poroshenko talked about, of course, will not soon become public knowledge, if at all. One can only guess. It seems to us that we will be able to see the consequences of this meeting in the very near future.
    "

    After these words, I thought about whether to read further, but from the principle I read and realized that this one! There are such SEA articles that we have, that on the Ukrainian Internet segment!
    All these arguments and not any facts raise the question, why did they write !?
  45. ilyaros
    ilyaros 14 January 2016 09: 56
    +9
    Donbass as part of Ukraine ... Hmm, why did thousands of people die-military and civilian? Who will pay for the restoration of the infrastructure of Donbass - is Kiev really a beggar? How generally possible is the coexistence ideologically polar (ideally, at least at a declarative level) of the Kiev regime with DNR-LPR? These questions remain open. Although, given the death of the most prominent commanders in the Donbas ... Everything can be ... Only it will be no less a tragedy than the Maidan itself, and the war.
  46. Vladimir
    Vladimir 14 January 2016 10: 01
    0
    Quote: booth
    The events of the next two months will show what these guys agreed to.


    http://joinfo.ua/politic/1145127_Stali-izvestni-tayni-peregovorov-Grizlova-Kieve
    .html Yes, as the media write, especially about nothing.
  47. kartalovkolya
    kartalovkolya 14 January 2016 10: 08
    0
    If we sit and rack our brains, can you imagine what is happening in Washington? Brain boil already seems to go through the roof, and the real reason (second bottom) of this visit seems to be known to only one person and this is Vladimir Putin, but he will not tell anyone until he fulfills his plan! The chess player however ...
    1. sa-ag
      sa-ag 14 January 2016 14: 08
      +1
      Quote: kartalovkolya
      it seems that only one person knows this visit, and that’s VV Putin, but he won’t tell anyone until he fulfills his plan! The chess player however ...

      Does he play chess with himself? What was interesting to me was that there was a telephone conversation between Putin and Obama, until now Obama has preferred not to talk with Putin for quite some time, Kerry used everything
  48. Egoza
    Egoza 14 January 2016 10: 08
    0
    But here who is especially agitated! laughing
    Under Poroshenko, there were more political prisoners than under Yanukovych, the current government is afraid of patriots and throws them in jail.
    This was stated at a rally in Kiev under the walls of the Lukyanovsky pre-trial detention center, Bogdan Titsky, chief of staff of the battalion of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists, said:
    The regime, which is now in Ukraine, is essentially the successor to the previous regime of Yanukovych. The prison regime, and the entire penitentiary system of Ukraine, is the successor to the Soviet Gulag. This is the only structure that after the Maidan has not even experienced formal reforms.
    “Now there are about a hundred activists, patriots, volunteers who fought for Ukraine, fought on the Maidan, fought for the freedom of this people. And precisely for such people, the heroes of our country, for some reason our government is afraid.
    They sign agreements with Putin, shake hands with Putin, talk about the peace plan, that there is no need to fight, no need to fight, some Minsk agreements must be signed. And those people who are able to win, who won the war, at the front, they are thrown into jail ”
    Now in Ukrainian prisons there are more prisoners than Ukrainians who are in military captivity in Russia. That is, Poroshenko and the whole system work to exterminate Ukrainians even more than Putin, ”Titsky announced.
    “I well remember the period of the Yanukovych regime - then there were several dozen political prisoners. Now we have at least a whole prison hundred behind bars and under investigation. Someone says that people behind bars, who are charged with murders, serious crimes, cannot be political prisoners. This is a blatant lie, since no guilt has been proven.
    In fact, there are people in Lukyanovka and other prisons who are even legally innocent. But they continue to torment them behind bars.
    These are the best people, these are the people who are most afraid of this power, this regime, Putin and his entire occupying army, ”the nationalist believes. (Rus. Spring)
    1. fif21
      fif21 14 January 2016 13: 40
      +1
      Quote: Egoza
      We now have at least a whole prison hundred
      Heavenly hundred, prison hundred trend however, all hundreds measured! When is Ostanets the last hundred American males?
    2. The comment was deleted.
  49. runway
    runway 14 January 2016 10: 23
    +7
    The fact that during active hostilities there were negotiations between representatives of the current leaders of the Russian Federation with the Nazis from Ukraine, the site has already been discussed more than once. And the Minsk agreements are also from this series. In other words, brisk blood trading did not stop. What is at stake is also no need to guess - everyone understands everything perfectly. Although it’s hard. At a time when people in Novorossia are under blockade and under constant shelling, Sberbank of Russia is restructuring Ukraine’s debts! Crimeans are in a blockade without light, water, and our hands-free leaders UNROSMETALLY (?) Drive gas, coal, electricity to Ukraine ....
    This article says that Gryzlov, and those who sent him, (sorry that not there) well done. And Lyashko, and those above him, crap one's pants .... I believe that such conclusions could have been made if it hadn’t been for Gryzlov to fly there, and Parashenko would crawl on our knees. Otherwise, you won’t figure out who was the hardest hit.
    1. SVT
      SVT 14 January 2016 19: 50
      +2
      Yes, I totally agree with you. It's all muddy somehow. Yes, and it's a shame. We do not have discounts for anything. We will never be brothers !!! After Odessa, after Donbass and after everything you do. And Donbass, we can’t leave! There are our people. Our people are there. And they hope for us and want to go home to Russia. And we will accept them and share the last piece of bread. As always, we stand on that. COMRADE help out! And let someone blather, that he has nothing to eat.
  50. morpogr
    morpogr 14 January 2016 10: 29
    0
    And if you arrange a referendum by regions and ask a question, do you want to be a subject of the Federation of the State of Ukraine or an independent state or a subject of Russia or to remain an area within Ukraine. I think the result will be very interesting.
    1. fif21
      fif21 14 January 2016 13: 45
      +8
      Quote: morpogr
      And if you hold a referendum by region and ask a question, do you want to be a subject of a federation of the state of Ukraine
      Remember the referendum on the USSR! People said YES! American Beds - NO and Who Wins. Do you still think that the opinion of people is of interest to someone?
      1. Pvi1206
        Pvi1206 14 January 2016 15: 45
        +3
        The leadership of the country does not take into account the peaceful expression of citizens’s will. Once it was decided to monetize benefits for pensioners. People went out and blocked the Leningrad highway in the Khimki area. The decision was immediately canceled.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. gray_angel
      gray_angel 14 January 2016 16: 59
      +1
      Yes, you, the maydanut power will draw any figure they like, and the European Union will say that it’s so ...
    4. The comment was deleted.