Military Review

Scorpion Ammunition Supply System

80
Rifle ammunition systems weapons represent a separate design task, without a successful solution of which it is impossible to create effective weapons. In particular, in the context of machine-gun armament, various systems are of great interest, which make it possible to increase the size of ready-to-use ammunition and thereby ensure long-term firing without reloading. More recently, an interesting project of such a system was presented by domestic designers.


A domestic device designed to enhance the combat qualities of existing machine guns was developed by FRONT-tactical systems. The creation of a new product, which received the designation "Scorpio", was carried out on its own initiative, without an order from the military department or security agencies. In order to increase the ammunition of the machine gun, ready for use, it was decided to abandon the standard boxes for tapes, replacing them with a larger container and a special device for feeding the cartridge tape to the receiving window of the machine gun.

In its current form, the Scorpion system consists of several main parts. A metal box-container of corresponding dimensions is intended for storage of a tape with cartridges. A special flexible sleeve for feeding cartridges is connected to it, at the second end of which a bracket is provided for mounting on a machine gun. Such architecture of the kit allows it to produce various options, both stationary and portable.

Scorpion Ammunition Supply System
General view of the system "Scorpio". Photo Front-ts.ru


It should be noted that the idea of ​​using flexible metal hoses for feeding tapes is not a novelty. Similar designs were developed in the first half of the last century, and even found application in practice in various fields. The use of a flexible sleeve allows you to connect the weapon with the cartridge case, as well as to ensure the correct interaction of the cartridge belt, the box and the weapon when you change their position in space. As a result, such constructions are the optimal solution to the existing problems.

The set of "Scorpion" includes several basic elements. A metal box-container is used for storing and carrying the tape with cartridges. In the basic configuration, it is 40x10x30 cm in size and holds 475 cartridges in one tape. For carrying the box, it is proposed to use a special backpack, adjustable in accordance with the anatomy of the arrow. A special cap with fasteners for a flexible sleeve is mounted on the ammo box. The sleeve itself is a construction of a large number of metal segments that can change position relative to each other within certain sectors. The sleeve length is 160 cm, width 10 cm, thickness –2,5 cm, which allows it to hold up to 75 cartridges. If necessary, the sleeve is equipped with a protective cover. The sleeve is equipped with a bracket that allows you to connect it with a weapon. Kit without ammunition weighs about 4,1 kg.

According to the manufacturer, in its basic configuration, the Scorpion kit is designed for use with 7,62x54 mm R rifle cartridges and loose metal ribbons. In preparation for shooting in the box and the sleeve is placed a single tape on 550 cartridges. The end of the tape is displayed to the receiving window of the weapon. According to reports, the design of the Scorpion kit is designed for use with Kalashnikov machine guns, however, the possibility of creating modifications for other weapons is mentioned.


Cartridge case and flexible sleeve. Photo Vpk.name


The main feature of the Scorpion system is the use of a common tape for all wearable ammunition, which gives it a number of characteristics and also provides certain advantages over other methods of ammunition. According to the company-developer, "Scorpion" compares favorably with the existing boxes with ribbons for a number of reasons. First of all, a certain reduction in the weight of the whole complex in the form of a machine gun, cartridges and ammunition systems is achieved. So, for carrying 550 cartridges you need six standard metal boxes. If the weight of an empty box is of the order of 1-1,5 kg, the total mass of the complex is reduced by several kilograms only at the expense of the means of storing and carrying ammunition.

The absence of the need to reload the weapon after spending the tape on 100 cartridges (as when using standard boxes) allows you to provide a fire advantage and create a high density of fire. In addition, elements of the "Scorpion" do not interfere with the arrow to move around the battlefield and do not impose serious restrictions on its mobility. Shooting from various positions is possible, during which the sleeve or the backpack does not interfere with the machine-gunner.

The existence of the project "Scorpio" was announced a long time ago. Since that time, the company-developer has conducted all the necessary tests and completed the fine-tuning of the system. In particular, during 2015, the system was tested in polygon conditions. Thanks to this, we managed to get rid of all the flaws and ensure high reliability of operation of all elements of the kit.


The machine gunner with the system "Scorpion". Photo Basoff1.livejournal.com


To date, the company "FRONT-tactical systems" has mastered the mass production of the "Scorpion" system in the configuration chambered for 7,62х54 mm R and Kalashnikov machine guns of PC, PKM and Pecheneg modifications. Products are assembled under the order within two weeks after receiving the application. At the request of the customer, some changes can be made to the system concerning the knapsack and its belt system. In particular, you can choose the color of the textile elements of the kit.

According to the manufacturer, the selected architecture of the complex allows you to change its main parameters. So, in accordance with the wishes of the customer can be changed the design of the box-container for carrying the tape. In the portable version of the Scorpion, the box can hold up to 1000 cartridges, and this limitation is primarily due to the physical capabilities of the shooter and the weight of the ammunition load. In the manufacture of a stationary version intended for installation on equipment, etc., there are no such restrictions. In this case, the kit can be equipped with boxes of any capacity.

According to reports, the Scorpion ammunition kits are produced in small batches and are delivered to individual customers. There are references to the order of such equipment by representatives of Russian law enforcement agencies and the armed forces. Thus, the original proposal interested its "target audience" and came to practical application.


Section of a flexible sleeve chambered for 12,7х108 mm. Photo Basoff1.livejournal.com


Using his accumulated and other people's experience, the development company is currently working on several options for the development of the Scorpion system. So, last summer, there were reports of the development of a flexible sleeve for feeding 12,7x108 mm ammunition, which can be used for supplying the cliff with a NSV-12,7 “Rock” machine gun or other similar systems. For obvious reasons, this version of the kit will not be a direct analogue of the Scorpion for PC / PKM, but it may well be used as part of the weapons of various equipment. At the same time, he will completely “inherit” all the characteristic advantages of the basic model.

In the future, the creation of new systems of similar architecture for various ammunition is not excluded. It is argued that the flexible hose can even be used to feed an 30-mm grenade for the corresponding weapon. Will potential customers show interest in such offers? Time will tell.

In parallel with the creation of new kits, the development of updated versions of existing equipment is underway. In December last year, work was reported on an upgraded version of the arms to the arms. With the help of new design brackets, the developers are going to ensure compatibility of the Scorpion kit with new modifications of Kalashnikov machine guns, primarily with the Pecheneg machine gun in the bullpup layout.


One of the foreign analogues of the Scorpion is the American-developed TYR Tactical MICO system. Photo Warspot.ru


At present, in Russia and abroad, several variants of small-arms ammunition systems are being developed and tested with the supply of cartridges along a flexible metal sleeve. All these products have a similar architecture, and should also have the same advantages over standard designs. However, so far none of these systems have been adopted. Flexible hoses are actively used in the composition of small arms of various equipment, but kits for infantry machine gunners have not yet reached mass use in practice.

The Scorpion ammunition system is of great interest from a technical and tactical point of view. In some publications devoted to this development, it is argued that the original technical solutions of the project can make a real revolution in the field of small arms and methods of its combat use. In particular, it was proposed to develop a new automatic rifle chambered for 7,62x54 mm R, which initially could be used with a flexible sleeve for feeding cartridges, increasing its combat performance. In addition, certain advantages were mentioned related to the rejection of intermediate cartridges and the transfer of all infantry weapons to rifle ammunition.

Despite all the high marks and attempts to present a new domestic development by the revolution in weapons business, the Scorpion kit has not yet interested the Russian military department and has not become the subject of mass supply contracts. However, a number of such products are already used by representatives of various structures. Further prospects of the kit are still in question. Whether the Scorpion will become a regular element of the equipment of Russian machine-gunners is not quite clear.


On the materials of the sites:
http://front-ts.ru/
http://vpk.name/
https://inforeactor.ru/
http://warspot.ru/
http://basoff1.livejournal.com/
Author:
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  4. D-Master
    D-Master 13 January 2016 06: 49 New
    +9
    Another excellent article from Ryabov Cyril. Regarding the invention itself - combat nutrition systems. He was not interested in the Ministry of Defense only because of the rather large inertia of the military structures and the length of the decision. Meanwhile, this product with 100% probability is already used in special forces. After its break-in and the passage of the product of military use in various CTOs, it may come in regular WWII. Very likely as an addition to the Warrior -2 for machine gunners. IMHO naturally.
    1. Darkmor
      Darkmor 13 January 2016 08: 13 New
      10
      It seems to me that this system has gone in the wrong direction.
      Firstly, it is expanding the kit for tape machine guns, which already have the highest ammunition among small arms.
      Secondly, such a weapon is quite heavy and involves shooting lying or from a prepared position (and if you can shoot Hollywood from a 7,62 mm machine gun, then such a trick will not work at all from 12,7 mm).
      Yes, it seems to me that overheating of the barrel of a machine gun will happen before all the tape from the backpack is consumed during continuous shooting.
      Those. specifically for heavy machine guns, such a system is not needed.
      Well, at least until we make a working exoskeleton to make an infantryman a mini tank with a spinning six-barrel, which needs a couple of thousand rounds of ammunition.

      On the other hand, it seems to me that it would be possible to make such a system for machine guns and light machine guns with store ammunition, and it would be in demand.
      Because, a hanging store, as you do not expand it, but has its own limit. And this limit ends very quickly in an intense battle.
      There is no need to make a backpack - just a belt container. This would make it possible to have 300-400 rounds for rpk \ ak, without increasing the weight of the weapon itself in the hands.
      Such a container would not interfere with the carrying of cargo on the back (backpack, portable radio station, etc.), it could be quickly removed with one hand, while shooting while lying it would not increase the dimensions.
      If necessary, it would be possible to fix the gutter around the belt (like a belt), and recharge the machine with a regular store.
      The question of supplying ammunition through the gutter remains open (after all, in the absence of a tape something should push cartridges through the gutter) - but here you can come up with something, if there was a desire.
      1. PAM
        PAM 13 January 2016 10: 40 New
        +3
        Yes, it seems to me that overheating of the barrel of a machine gun will happen before all the tape from the backpack is consumed during continuous shooting.
        damn it only in Hollywood clamp the trigger and went to mow in practice that with a backpack, that with a barrel box, no one will do that.
        12,7mm such a focus will not work at all
        implies the use of tape on the gutter from the box, this does not mean that carrying on his back while shooting on the go.
        But it’s possible to make a claim to the developers for a weight of 4,1 kg for the empty one (in the era of composites), this is not taking into account the weight of the backpack, as well as the dust, dirt and water that (even if you soak the cloth) will collect the sleeve. Why do so much a flowing thing from metal xs?
        1. Apologet.Ru
          Apologet.Ru 13 January 2016 11: 29 New
          0
          hi
          Whether the Scorpio will become a regular element in the equipment of Russian machine gunners is not entirely clear yet.

          It will become as soon as acceptable appropriate exoskeletons appear.
          By the way, something similar has already been reported ...


          what I meant see with 01,10 - 01,33 ...
      2. SOLGA
        SOLGA 13 January 2016 11: 42 New
        0
        machine guns, in the kit, have an interchangeable barrel (and as I recall, it changes quickly)
      3. PAM
        PAM 13 January 2016 11: 43 New
        +1
        There is no need to make a backpack - just a belt container.
        and it would look something like this, only on the belt, in principle, two containers on the belt with a fastener for unloading, one from each side, ~ 300 rounds sound good but they will have to be semi-soft, otherwise it will be extremely uncomfortable and painful to move around.
      4. bazilio
        bazilio 13 January 2016 12: 02 New
        +1
        Quote: Darkmor
        Yes, it seems to me that overheating of the barrel of a machine gun will happen before all the tape from the backpack is consumed during continuous shooting.

        If we talk about PC \ PCM, then there is an opinion that a PC can withstand 400-450 shots at intense. fire without changing the barrel. Pecheneg will probably withstand 500 shots. The scorpion under 7.62x54 holds 475 rounds.


        Quote: Darkmor
        On the other hand, it seems to me that it would be possible to make such a system for machine guns and light machine guns with store ammunition, and it would be in demand.

        This is where the problem of overheating arises very quickly. With light machine guns easier, but with machine guns there will be trouble. 3-4 horns in intensive mode and all, overheating, no normal accuracy. of course AK will shoot even if the fore-end is on but still
        1. gross kaput
          gross kaput 13 January 2016 13: 31 New
          0
          Quote: bazilio
          The scorpion under 7.62x54 holds 475 rounds.

          read carefully - 475 in the box + 75 in the sleeve total 550
      5. Fregate
        Fregate 13 January 2016 20: 42 New
        0
        Quote: Darkmor
        and if from a 7,62mm machine gun you can shoot in Hollywood, then from a 12,7mm such a trick will not work at all).

        Quote: Darkmor
        Those. specifically for heavy machine guns, such a system is not needed.

        Have you read the article? It says that
        So, last summer there were reports of development flexible sleeve for supplying cartridges of 12,7 x 108 mm, ... it may well find application in the composition of armaments various equipment.

        Those. we are only talking about a flexible sleeve, nothing is written for the backpack. And it is also written that for 30mm shells a sleeve can be created. Well, this does not mean that someone will walk with AGSmi or even cooler with 2A42 or 2A72 in their hands.
      6. Alf
        Alf 13 January 2016 22: 07 New
        0
        Quote: Darkmor
        Yes, it seems to me that overheating of the barrel of a machine gun will happen before all the tape from the backpack is consumed during continuous shooting.

        As far as I know, Pecheneg is able to shoot the entire ammunition in 600 rounds without overheating the barrel.
      7. gladcu2
        gladcu2 14 January 2016 22: 52 New
        0
        Darkmor

        This feed system eliminates the concept of using a machine gun as a branch support weapon, turning it into a personal one.

        There is absolutely no point in such a continuous diet.
      8. gladcu2
        gladcu2 14 January 2016 23: 46 New
        0
        Darkmor

        Personal weapons cannot be tied to the hull. Mobility is seriously deteriorating.

        In my opinion, this backpack is for exotic lovers. Not a single plus against the existing ones.
      9. cyberhanter
        cyberhanter 15 January 2016 13: 23 New
        0
        The main disadvantage of this system is that it is needed for intense battles, and if the battle is intense then 550 cartridges will not be enough for it and you will have to change not just a belt, but a whole backpack of ammunition, which is even less convenient than changing a belt
    2. Bykov.
      Bykov. 13 January 2016 14: 16 New
      +5

      Here is the system in action.
    3. max702
      max702 14 January 2016 01: 15 New
      0
      Interestingly, where for the PC and others will take loose tape? as far as I know this does not exist with us ...
  5. The comment was deleted.
  6. denvar555
    denvar555 13 January 2016 07: 32 New
    +5
    It seems to me a dubious invention! This unit is suitable only for Hollywood action movies, when the main character mows down his enemies in batches, and often into the white light as a pretty penny. The system also has quite a few drawbacks: significant weight, dimensions (especially when shooting prone), difficulty in reloading after using up all the ammunition (although at such an intensity of fire, the barrel of a machine gun usually also changed earlier), price, narrow specialization (this device would suit well what -not a space super-machine gunner from Starship Troopers.
    1. homedition
      homedition 13 January 2016 10: 38 New
      0
      By weight, the article seems to say that in comparison with boxes of the same number of cartridges, this unit is lighter. I do not consider the difficulty of reloading as a problem, what is difficult to unhook a sleeve and hang the same box?
      But with all the convenience, widespread use, of course, it won’t be complicated and expensive, and it’s not clear about reliability.
    2. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 13 January 2016 11: 22 New
      +1
      Quote: denvar555
      This unit is suitable only for Hollywood fighters, when the main character mows enemies with bundles and often in white light like a pretty penny

      Even so, the authors are literally sitting on a gold mine. If they take an American patent, create a minimal advertisement in the form of several commercials and bring it to the American arms exhibition - they will be torn there. They will rake all capacities on pre-orders for a couple of years in advance.
      1. gross kaput
        gross kaput 13 January 2016 15: 13 New
        11
        Quote: Mikhail3
        If they take an American patent, create a minimal advertisement in the form of several commercials and bring it to the American arms exhibition - they will be torn there.

        Yeah, they will tear it apart, only for another reason - because this is a "know-how", if not strange, an American invention from the time of the Vietnam War, battles in the jungle have their own specifics - clashes take place at extremely small distances, but dense vegetation does not allow seeing the enemy even at 10 meters therefore, the fire was often directed in the "that direction" and the theory of probability already came to the fore, according to which the more bullets per unit of time we shoot in that direction, the more likely it is to kill someone, so in order to increase the density of fire from machine guns, the Americans developed a back box with a flexible sleeve, and there were options not only for the M-60 but also for the experimental Kolt handbrake based on the M-16, which was part of the CAR-15 family. After running in this knapsack in Vietnam, the Americans abandoned it, and in our country, after 40 years, they are now trying to pass it off as a revelation from above.
    3. akmalinin
      akmalinin 13 January 2016 17: 30 New
      -6
      For detachment units suitable.
    4. max702
      max702 14 January 2016 01: 28 New
      0
      Quote: denvar555
      It seems to me a dubious invention! This unit is suitable only for Hollywood action movies, when the main character mows down his enemies in batches, and often into the white light as a pretty penny. The system also has quite a few drawbacks: significant weight, dimensions (especially when shooting prone), difficulty in reloading after using up all the ammunition (although at such an intensity of fire, the barrel of a machine gun usually also changed earlier), price, narrow specialization (this device would suit well what -not a space super-machine gunner from Starship Troopers.

      they discussed this on the Hansa a few years ago, and came to the conclusion that it would not be bad, for example, for unexpected contact, a large continuous supply would allow suppressing enemy fire, thereby giving the rest time to disperse and prepare for battle .. The only thing they blamed on was the raw system and poorly worked out, this also concerned materials and workmanship, the box can be made of polycarbonate or aluminum, just as the sleeve itself can be made aluminum with Teflon coating to avoid jamming of the tape, as well as weight reduction .. But alas, all this is done on the knee and without thorough engineering and technological study (stupidly no money for this). the generals, as always, are absolutely not interested in the weapons of a simple infantryman. The scale is too small. Alas, the infantry Vanya is always deprived of everything, although it is he who always and always puts an end to any conflict ...
  7. tchoni
    tchoni 13 January 2016 08: 45 New
    0
    Such a scheme of ammunition, it seems to me, needs additional research, as applied to individual small arms ... Moreover, it would be interesting to conduct research for the 6 mm cartridge variant.
    The benefits are obvious: larger wearable ammunition ready for use. Extra back protection (can be made easier bronik).
    Disadvantages are cumbersome. Mobility restriction (gun attached to the shooter)
    Some decrease in reliability, it seems to me ...
  8. Fotoceva62
    Fotoceva62 13 January 2016 09: 05 New
    +7
    “I’m embarrassed to ask,” but what will this system look like in a full profile trench, or inside a combat vehicle? It also will not serve as a replacement for the second number, since the range of tasks assigned to the second number of the service is quite wide. How the system will behave if the feed sleeve is damaged (changing a regular tape is easy), but here is a whole hemorrhoid. In general, how will all this work in battle in mud, water, snow, and so on?
    The machine gunner already has “drin” in his hands weighing about a pound, and they hang him on his back in addition to the body kit, supplies and equipment of the box. He will be glad, well, yes, yes ...
    Apparently 100 shots for a short-lived assault battle where the reliability of the weapon and the mobility of the shooter are important, the authors thought it was not enough, but then they would put an exoskeleton on the soldier and a water cooling casing on the machine gun. In the trench of such a product in general is of little use, but it is up to the end user to judge and decide!
    1. tchoni
      tchoni 13 January 2016 13: 57 New
      +1
      He becomes a drin when a box of 100 rounds of ammunition comes to him. And so PCM 7 with a small kilo ..
      And why will it interfere in the trench?
      And in the car, people from rd turn around. And this device is compact ..
  9. Wolka
    Wolka 13 January 2016 09: 15 New
    0
    a very controversial "invention" in practice, "modern war" does not provide for frontal attacks by a large number of advancing in a line, this is not the Second World War, and for this there are more modern and effective tactical means for attack and action in defense, but to carry this ammunition in the RDshke on the march is very expensive, I still prefer the good old "bra" ...
    1. Mikhail3
      Mikhail3 13 January 2016 11: 28 New
      +4
      Quite right, there are now few mass attacks. Is it weak to take another step in the argument? That is, you are right about mass attacks. But now the defense has undergone changes! Imagine the use of these pieces in a clash of small mobile groups, as is now customary.
      What do we see? A pair of fighters with these devices, suddenly, get the opportunity to cover the entire enemy position with fire! Which in most cases is quite compact. And then, until people dropped the BC from these boxes, you can go on the attack in growth, almost without fear of return fire. Pouring fire like in a Hollywood movie, but only the bullets are real!
      Very, very entertaining.
      1. Hell's Angel
        Hell's Angel 13 January 2016 13: 25 New
        +4
        Put a plus for the comment. I will add that some fighters have already tried to "tinker" with such a thing for a long time. It is for this "A couple of fighters with these devices, suddenly, get the opportunity to cover the entire position of the enemy with fire! Which in most cases is quite compact. And then, as long as people have not dropped the BC from these boxes, you can go on the attack in full, almost without fear of return fire. fire like in a Hollywood movie, but the bullets are real! "
  10. Dam
    Dam 13 January 2016 09: 35 New
    0
    I read this article two days ago on the blog of Dima Petersburg. The stupidity did not allow re-posting. The system is very good at the idea, I wonder how the performance will come out. This is another confirmation of the conclusions that small calibers are likely to be put down in the army, a return to the rifle cartridge is inevitable.
  11. washi
    washi 13 January 2016 10: 12 New
    +1
    The development is amazing but against armies until the 20th century and a machine gun with forced cooling
  12. Leader
    Leader 13 January 2016 10: 18 New
    +2
    From my point of view, this design can be used with reservations only in stationary installations.
    I would not want to have this structure on my shoulders in battle - with dubious pluses I see significant disadvantages.
  13. Taoist
    Taoist 13 January 2016 10: 36 New
    +1
    Specialized system for a small circle of special tasks. Without the use of an exoskeleton and power systems it is almost not applicable. Here already noted why:

    1) Weight. (and reduced maneuverability as a result)
    2) The inability to use a full ammunition without replacing the barrel of a weapon, which is much longer than changing an ammunition box.
    3) The practical impossibility of reloading the kit in battle - but because of the price of the issue, you won’t be able to throw it away as an empty store in case of need.
    4) Due to the long and complex cartridge sleeve, the likelihood of delays and failures increases. It is necessary to provide a cartridge belt tightening system (and this is power).

    In general, such a system can be considered only as a part of some promising "armored suit" (and even then I would strongly think that it is easier to introduce a caseless cartridge (or ZHMV) rather than dragging a box with a metal cartridge belt over its hump ...
    1. max702
      max702 14 January 2016 01: 43 New
      +1
      The weight is just below 30 percent, the entire machine gunner listed above is dragged on itself, only it is distributed in boxes and hung throughout the body, but just the opposite, due to a single placement, the weight is reduced, time is not spent on reloading, the probability of jamming skews and other things, it is solved by completeness of the design, the weight is reduced due to modern materials, and the placement on the back is very convenient and compact, the fighter doesn’t interfere, for example, to fire while lying, and it’s easier to move around nothing and, as noted, the box with bk does not burden the machine gun adding to it inertia thereby reducing maneuverability, and the ability to crush an enemy with a continuous burst of 500 rounds of ammunition is expensive .. It’s just that instead of building one frigate, it’s rotting at the berth without ever fighting to spend this money on fine-tuning, and thereby save thousands of lives of ordinary infantrymen in the future self-made with all the consequences ..
      1. Taoist
        Taoist 14 January 2016 13: 15 New
        +1
        In a real situation, the machine gunner does not carry the entire BC in one. the stock of ammunition is distributed at least to the second number. In the case of a satchel, you won’t leave anything in the cell or throw it away ... Again, for a regular handbrake, firing continuously is an excess ... Well, constructions like miniguns require both stops and external power ... (back to the subject of exoskeleton). Well, and the tape ... here would be another alignment if we developed a similar cartridge box for tapeless power.
  14. Mad dok
    Mad dok 13 January 2016 10: 57 New
    -1
    On one side is a feed sleeve 160 cm long, and on the other side an empty tape teleports. The length is also not small. It’s not very convenient, I think .....
    1. gross kaput
      gross kaput 13 January 2016 12: 07 New
      +5
      Quote: Mad-dok
      The length is also not small

      The ribbon for the PC consists of pieces of 25 links, the pieces are interconnected by a cartridge, after shooting 25 cartridge an empty piece falls off like a tail at a lizard smile
  15. Tarikxnumx
    Tarikxnumx 13 January 2016 11: 56 New
    0
    The idea as a whole is good, but there is one thing ... In the countries of the former USSR, tapes are one-piece. And it turns out everything that you shot will drag you with a sour tail like that ... Can you imagine a tail made of 400 rounds of tape? It turns out, either you need to spend time reloading the tape, or to disengage an already shot piece.
    Image taken from the live magazine of M. Popenker
    1. bazilio
      bazilio 13 January 2016 12: 08 New
      +2
      Quote: TarIK2017
      In the countries of the former USSR, tapes are one-piece. And it turns out everything that you shot will drag you with a sour tail like that ... Can you imagine a tail made of 400 rounds of tape?

      Yes, yes, they forgot about it))) With this tail you can catch on, a friend will step on it, etc., etc.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. gross kaput
      gross kaput 13 January 2016 14: 56 New
      +6
      Quote: TarIK2017
      In the countries of the former USSR, tapes are one-piece

      In the countries of the former USSR, a bolt was hammered to equip armaments with their corresponding accessories, because in the USSR non-detachable tapes for 100 and 200 rounds (GRAU 6L5,6L6 indexes) were intended for PKS / PKMS / PKT / PKB machine guns and a 6L7 PIECE tape was intended for PC / PKM with a total capacity of 250 rounds of ammunition, the tapes are interchangeable and they are sculpted by their minds wherever they go, they could also attach the entire tape from the SGM to a total of 250 in one piece there.
    4. Lyton
      Lyton 13 January 2016 15: 51 New
      0
      Quote: TarIK2017
      And it turns out everything that you shot will drag you with a sour tail like that ...

      The article seems to say that the tapes themselves are loose.
      1. Tarikxnumx
        Tarikxnumx 13 January 2016 20: 16 New
        0
        The article says, but in a photo in the same article, a piece of used tape hangs from the machine gun receiver for some reason .... And I haven’t heard anything about loose ribbons for PCM.
        1. marshes
          marshes 13 January 2016 20: 18 New
          0
          Quote: TarIK2017
          Yes, and I have not heard anything about bulk tapes for RMB.

          Even, some were not offered to anyone!
        2. dzeredzavkomimu
          dzeredzavkomimu 14 January 2016 23: 25 New
          0
          we had such tapes, fastened with a cartridge, like a door hinge, pulling the cartridge back, the tape is torn, it seems like 20 links
    5. The comment was deleted.
  16. lehmus2010
    lehmus2010 13 January 2016 12: 41 New
    0
    Tell me how to attach the video, there are frames of the prototype in the fighting.
    1. Tarikxnumx
      Tarikxnumx 13 January 2016 12: 44 New
      0
      there is a button "insert media content from other sites", next to the button "insert image"
    2. marshes
      marshes 13 January 2016 15: 42 New
      0
      Quote: lehmus2010
      Tell me how to attach the video, there are frames of the prototype in the fighting.

      You can download it from YouTube. I have not tried it from "others".
      if its and does not shine very much, then video through the computer to decompose into frames.
  17. Reeds
    Reeds 13 January 2016 12: 48 New
    +2
    The idea is a good, and most importantly rational, machine gunner does not have to hit a long line, short shots, extinguishing firing points or pressing the enemy to the ground.
    Yes, and weight plays a significant role, it is not very convenient with a large number of zinc to run through the forest, or worse in the mountains.
    Therefore, it would be interesting to see "Scorpion" in "Ratnik" this year.
  18. Fat
    Fat 13 January 2016 13: 10 New
    0
    If you make such a device from inexpensive, but durable plastic, not as an alternative to regular power, but as an addition, it would be more interesting to perform a number of tasks, it seems to me.
  19. gross kaput
    gross kaput 13 January 2016 13: 27 New
    +7
    Pribluda will probably only be used to a limited extent in the special forces of the FSB and the Ministry of Internal Affairs, for the army it is not applicable and most importantly it is not needed absolutely, the first weight - the entire equipped set with a Pecheneg weighs 25 kg, but besides this, the machine gunner is wearing a 6B43 armor in the lightest configuration weighing 9 kg , plus a helmet of 1,5 kg, well, all sorts of "little things" such as a flask, a shovel, a first aid kit, a radio station, a knife, a couple of grenades, and clothes and shoes also have their weight - especially in winter, and a fighter with such a set will carry a minimum 50 kg. as a result, such a machine gunner is very vulnerable in battle as it turns out to be inactive. I am generally silent about foot marches over a more or less long distance, landing in a technique that does not differ in the dimensions of the "assault force" and large sizes of doors / hatches, especially in combat, turns into a lethal circus act for such a shooter. As for the bk for PC / PKM / Pecheneg and its mass - in principle, the article rightly noted that a box for 100 for a PC weighs 1 kg. only now the bulk of the ammo for the machine gun goes either in the "landing" or in the second number, and here they propose to load all this on the 1st number, rejoicing at the reduced mass of the wearable BC - decreased for whom? for a machine gunner? I do not think that 2 boxes of 4 kg are much heavier than one box of 13 kg. In general, the thing is already very niche for a very narrow range of tasks.
    1. dzeredzavkomimu
      dzeredzavkomimu 14 January 2016 23: 29 New
      0
      Yes, and special forces will be of little interest, it will cling to the premises, and such a reserve is not needed, in time you can’t get rid of the machine gun if that
  20. Valery 1966
    Valery 1966 13 January 2016 13: 38 New
    +5
    Such a power supply system will be useful in assault operations for massive fire support. Of course, the machine gunner is a separate military profession. Not everyone will be able to cope with such a unit, but if a detachment advances and several such "mobile firing points" are running along with them, which cover the enemy's defense with a shower of bullets, it will be very effective. Not everyone will stick out of their hole, under a solid wall of fire, when several machine guns with increased power are working. Some here say it's bullshit. It would be interesting to know their opinion if they were given a submachine gun and said "Run, step on the enemy's trenches." Would they like to see several such machine guns running next to them so that the enemy would not protrude from the trench? Then they would stick their tongues in their ass and be silent. Nice system. It doesn't matter who first implemented it. If it helps to save the lives of our soldiers, then I support
  21. Valery 1966
    Valery 1966 13 January 2016 14: 28 New
    0
    Quote: Valery 1966
    Such a power supply system will be useful in assault operations for massive fire support. Of course, the machine gunner is a separate military profession. Not everyone will be able to cope with such a unit, but if a detachment advances and several such "mobile firing points" are running along with them, which cover the enemy's defense with a shower of bullets, it will be very effective. Not everyone will stick out of their hole, under a solid wall of fire, when several machine guns with increased power are working. Some here say it's bullshit. It would be interesting to know their opinion if they were given a submachine gun and said "Run, step on the enemy's trenches." Would they like to see several such machine guns running next to them so that the enemy would not protrude from the trench? Then they would stick their tongues in their ass and be silent. Nice system. It doesn't matter who first implemented it. If it helps to save the lives of our soldiers, then I support
    1. Pajamas
      Pajamas 13 January 2016 15: 27 New
      +1
      Quote: Valery 1966
      ... Some here say it's bullshit. It would be interesting to know their opinion if they were given a submachine gun and said "Run, step on the enemy's trenches."

      What kind of clash do you have when you have to run to the trenches with one "shooter"? Partisan?
  22. shans2
    shans2 13 January 2016 15: 35 New
    +1
    it’s useless, during an assault in buildings and ruins you just don’t get caught without catching this sleeve, this is the most important thing, but you don’t need to run across the field ... this is akin to the stories of the Great Patriotic War - tankers cut off all protruding parts of equipment, harnesses, etc., so as not to gets hooked when leaving a burning tank, gets hooked and gets entangled in a long coat - death, etc. ... I don’t think that someone wants to change the attachment store, which gives freedom to drop a machine gun, lift it, freedom to go through and will not hook, etc. ...
  23. marshes
    marshes 13 January 2016 15: 48 New
    0
    Interestingly, some kind of "spray" for cooling the barrel (s) has not been invented? Like carbon dioxide or nitrogen (?) With a "spindle" (gun) but if through an open bolt.
    1. psiho117
      psiho117 13 January 2016 17: 52 New
      +1
      Quote: marshes
      Interestingly, some kind of "spray" for cooling the barrel (s) has not been invented? Like carbon dioxide or nitrogen (?) With a "spindle" (gun) but if through an open bolt.

      a dozen cycles - and the trunk to a landfill, crack.
      Yes, and why? modern machine guns easily give out 400-500 shots with a break only for changing the tape. They even refuse interchangeable trunks, for it is enough.
      1. marshes
        marshes 13 January 2016 18: 04 New
        0
        Quote: psiho117
        a dozen cycles - and the trunk to a landfill, crack

        Yes, pepper is clear, the machine gunner’s life is short, they’ll shut up with all possible means.
        By the way, on trunks, AKM survivability of 25-30 thousand, if not in the slaughterhouse for a long time. But on PC trunks, I do not know.
        1. bullet
          bullet 13 January 2016 22: 04 New
          +1
          Guaranteed resource: AK assault rifles of 10000 rounds, PC / PKM machine guns - 25000 (on two barrels), Pecheneg machine guns - 23000 (on one barrel).
          1. marshes
            marshes 13 January 2016 22: 16 New
            0
            Quote: bullet
            Guaranteed resource: AK assault rifles 10000 shots,

            I have a booklet lying around, a guide on small arms, the resource of the AKM barrel is registered there, which is not so big as PC manuals, etc. ... about combined-arms charters. smile
            It's just that I myself was stupidly interested in how many AKs could live. 74 were, with dead springs, it was possible to reload the weight from shaking, not always. Some did not send a cartridge to the cartridge. In short, I met a lot of "killed" 74, but with AKM (C ) this was not the case.
  24. marshes
    marshes 13 January 2016 16: 17 New
    +1
    Loose tape, I don’t know how to stuff the tape with cartridges in NATO, probably after the battle the links are not collected.
    Why not make the box and the loose powder one-time, immediately pack the boxes at the factory. Do not equip them manually or in a "meat grinder". Economy? On the defensive and not loose, there will be enough "disposable" in the offensive? Although it may then send someone to "search" ...
    By the way, just a "backpack" for this is not bad if it is disposable, in principle, after the battle, you can take time, if you use it again.
    1. dzeredzavkomimu
      dzeredzavkomimu 14 January 2016 23: 31 New
      0
      they have the same tape as cartridges, the cartridges are even cheaper, so they don’t take a steam bath
  25. gross kaput
    gross kaput 13 January 2016 16: 28 New
    +3
    Quote: marshes
    how to stuff a tape with cartridges in NATO

    And no matter how, machine-gun cartridges in loose belts go there in this form from the factory. Our loose belts are used only in aviation, on the ground they considered that this pampering was an extra waste of money; complication of logistics - the volume of the same amount of used materials becomes more, respectively, larger warehouses and more vehicles are needed to deliver the same amount of used materials. p - well, and a decrease in combat readiness - for example, the cartridges were brought, but in loose, and there is nothing to equip them with. So our "earthlings" have never been particularly pampered, even having begun at one time the production of cartridges 7,62X39 packed in a cork immediately in the casings for SKS, they very quickly changed their minds and now only the GRAU index in the reference book reminds of that old history.
    1. marshes
      marshes 13 January 2016 16: 56 New
      0
      Quote: gross kaput
      But no matter how, machine-gun cartridges in loose belts there go like this from the factory

      It's good that we do not use tarpaulins from maxim laughing at 42 or 43, it seems that they have moved to the links, otherwise they would have looked like the Revolutionary Sailors, by the way, is that steel tape from Maxim to the PC?
      RPD, saw at the parade, what kind of tape is there?
      PS I do not like machine guns, they are first of all "shut up", "turn" not in the sense immediately ... smile
  26. marshes
    marshes 13 January 2016 17: 15 New
    0
    And yet, as it were so to speak. At the expense of the ACS, the thing is good on defense, in a checkerboard pattern you can throw grenades at the enemy, trench warfare. I feel the time has passed. Not a promising weapon. Yes, and in the news there is silence. Here are bronics, etc. ... Another thing if the GP or Grenade launcher revolver type.
    For the city, "MUKHA" is not bad, there is a rocket-propelled grenade, high-explosive fragmentation or incendiary. My opinion.
    1. psiho117
      psiho117 13 January 2016 18: 05 New
      +1
      Quote: marshes
      At the expense of the ACS, the thing is good at defense, in a checkerboard pattern you can throw grenades at the enemy, trench warfare. I feel the time has passed. Not a promising weapon. Yes, and in the news there is silence. Here are the armor, etc ...
      It is quite promising. They will raise the caliber to 40 mm, and enough for another 50 years. This is still an easel weapon, not a hand weapon, it has its own niche.
      And as for the armor plates - do not forget that the neck / face, arms / legs / hands are not covered with armor, so that a close gap will still incapacitate.
      For the city, "MUKHA" is not bad, there is a rocket-propelled grenade, high-explosive fragmentation or incendiary. My opinion.

      Already instead of flies, they created so many things ... and Bumblebees, and RPO, and Boer, and RPG-32, and GM-34, and TB shots to the "seven", any whim.
      1. marshes
        marshes 13 January 2016 18: 23 New
        0
        Quote: psiho117
        It is quite promising. Raise the caliber to 40 mm, and another 50 years is enough

        I wouldn’t say that it’s a bit heavy even for the mountains. The drummer is the most. For open places it’s better than the MLRS, compact. Type of Chinese or Turk 107mm, you can like the Ukrainians, which are from planes and helicopters. By the way, Azerbaijanis used it before. Pretty effective , if Nurses are installed on some models, the truth looks funny but ...
        Quote: psiho117
        Already instead of flies, they created so many things ... and Bumblebees, and RPO, and Boer, and RPG-32, and GM-34, and TB shots to the "seven", any whim.

        I just brought a fly, Summarized, I know about other things.
        1. psiho117
          psiho117 13 January 2016 21: 39 New
          +1
          Quote: marshes

          The drummer is that.

          Our revolutions as RG-6 did, and everything died out. But hell, that was in 1993! He will soon get a quarter, and he was not even really modernized.
          It is time to do something newer - as you compare it with Milkor, so the tears well.
  27. Region-25.rus
    Region-25.rus 13 January 2016 18: 54 New
    +1
    Quote: tchoni
    Such a scheme of ammunition, it seems to me, needs additional research, as applied to individual small arms ... Moreover, it would be interesting to conduct research for the 6 mm cartridge variant.
    The benefits are obvious: larger wearable ammunition ready for use. Extra back protection (can be made easier bronik).
    Disadvantages are cumbersome. Mobility restriction (gun attached to the shooter)
    Some decrease in reliability, it seems to me ...


    When it seems usually baptized! But in fact - my friend (a machine gunner in the reconnaissance group) back in the Second Chechen from two or three taxiways made something similar. Just for 1000 rounds! And ran through the mountains! And not only ran but fought! Say it hard? For an ordinary person, yes. But when a person is fighting with such a device, stick it anywhere on the body and beat your fist ..... soldier The only complaint was that it was difficult to find tape 25 matches (25 rounds). Hundreds and fifties hang out strongly.
    1. gross kaput
      gross kaput 13 January 2016 22: 17 New
      +1
      Quote: Region-25.rus
      back in the Second Chechen of two or three taxiways he made something similar. Just for 1000 rounds! And ran through the mountains!

      An old bike of "real hardened special forces" - we are carefully watching the video of shooting from a PC with a scorpion, laid out here, from about 2:20, and enjoying an unstable rate of fire and constant plugs when shooting with more or less long bursts - what does this mean? The fact that the energy of the bolt carrier is not enough for a stable reloading of the machine gun - the tape drives simply cannot cope with pulling the tape through the flexible sleeve, which, in principle, is needed so that the tape does not twist, cling and move with minimal friction, without a sleeve, and even in a soft taxiway, everything will be even more deplorable, as long as the belt sags, the machine gun will work, but after 5-10 shots, the belt will stretch and begin to cling to the edge of the taxiway form and belts, twist and wrinkle as a result, plugs will begin, or rather the firing process will turn into one big plug.
    2. tchoni
      tchoni 15 January 2016 14: 45 New
      -1
      Well, I don’t argue about who and what is needed .. I'm talking about the fact that the equipment should go to the troops. I just listed the pros and cons. But what should be translated from this, ideally, users should decide ... It was easier for your friend to drag along a line full of ribbons. Someone more important is the ability to put the weapon aside (let's say in the case of melee or even for some sort of tombstone.) I think that it’s not worthwhile to generalize with a single example .. But it’s worth sorting out. To whom and how much this device is convenient.
    3. tchoni
      tchoni 17 January 2016 22: 35 New
      0
      One cartridge 22 grams. We multiply by 1000 - 22 kilos. Add the weight of the tape, even let it be five kilograms and the weight of the machine gun ... We get something about 35 kilos. Next time you go hunting, grab the barbell (small) instead of the gun and put two 15 kilogram pancakes in the backpack. Then describe your feelings and besides tariffs
  28. marshes
    marshes 13 January 2016 19: 17 New
    0
    Quote: Region-25.rus
    The only complaint was that it was difficult to find tape 25 matches (25 rounds). Hundreds and fifties hang out strongly.

    They are in Training Centers. Schools (Military Institutes) and in schools.
  29. Orionvit
    Orionvit 13 January 2016 21: 32 New
    +1
    Quote: bazilio
    Quote: Darkmor
    Yes, it seems to me that overheating of the barrel of a machine gun will happen before all the tape from the backpack is consumed during continuous shooting.

    If we talk about PC \ PCM, then there is an opinion that a PC can withstand 400-450 shots at intense. fire without changing the barrel. Pecheneg will probably withstand 500 shots. The scorpion under 7.62x54 holds 475 rounds.


    Quote: Darkmor
    On the other hand, it seems to me that it would be possible to make such a system for machine guns and light machine guns with store ammunition, and it would be in demand.

    This is where the problem of overheating arises very quickly. With light machine guns easier, but with machine guns there will be trouble. 3-4 horns in intensive mode and all, overheating, no normal accuracy. of course AK will shoot even if the fore-end is on but still

    You yourself say that such a rate of fire only in Hollywood. In fact, the machine gunner shoots in short bursts (5-7 rounds each), in order to avoid overheating of the barrel, excessive use of ammunition, and to achieve higher firing accuracy. They specifically teach this. A knapsack system for supplying large-capacity ammunition, in conditions of ordinary, maneuverable combat, is completely redundant. But there are other types of military operations where a similar system will come in handy.
  30. Region-25.rus
    Region-25.rus 13 January 2016 23: 27 New
    0
    Quote: gross kaput
    Quote: Region-25.rus
    back in the Second Chechen of two or three taxiways he made something similar. Just for 1000 rounds! And ran through the mountains!

    An old bike of "real hardened special forces" - we are carefully watching the video of shooting from a PC with a scorpion, laid out here, from about 2:20, and enjoying an unstable rate of fire and constant plugs when shooting with more or less long bursts - what does this mean? The fact that the energy of the bolt carrier is not enough for a stable reloading of the machine gun - the tape drives simply cannot cope with pulling the tape through the flexible sleeve, which, in principle, is needed so that the tape does not twist, cling and move with minimal friction, without a sleeve, and even in a soft taxiway, everything will be even more deplorable, as long as the belt sags, the machine gun will work, but after 5-10 shots, the belt will stretch and begin to cling to the edge of the taxiway form and belts, twist and wrinkle as a result, plugs will begin, or rather the firing process will turn into one big plug.


    hey ... I know those guys PERSONALLY ... and saw the video .. filmed on mini VHS ... and personally drank with them .. they went through a lot ... and survived! and I don't give a shit about some video from you-tube.! for I myself participated with them when they worked as simple bouncers in bars ... and calmed the most violent with a touch of the fingers on their neck ... and I can trust them. And because he was covering his back while one of the nazes with four was cut at this time! Because they are from our Ussuri brigade of the GRU ... graduates! And I saw them in action ... and you will not see this in any video! Ikhot saw them not in the mountains! ... And not stupid u-tube rollers! So keep your "brilliant" speculations ... okay!
    And ... if your hands are from w ..... then do not judge by yourself ok ?! He watched the rollers! sofa expert.
  31. Region-25.rus
    Region-25.rus 13 January 2016 23: 46 New
    0
    Quote: marshes
    Quote: Region-25.rus
    The only complaint was that it was difficult to find tape 25 matches (25 rounds). Hundreds and fifties hang out strongly.

    They are in Training Centers. Schools (Military Institutes) and in schools.


    Do you know what year it is now? if not I will explain - the 2116th! And that was in 2004-05. And the guys fought with AKMS ...
    more precisely AKMSN (night) ... with strips on the left for attaching optics .... when there was practically no AS VAL! And we used a PBS with "light cartridges" for it ... we learn the math part! "Expert"
    1. gross kaput
      gross kaput 14 January 2016 14: 40 New
      +3
      A specialist is not a couch from the 25th region, but will you share your own experience in serving the legendary and invincible? Mal yet? Ali was hiding from a summons under her skirt?
      Quote: Region-25.rus
      if not I will explain - the 2116th!

      Ekot brought you here, for some reason I’m sure that a hundred years less now.
      Quote: Region-25.rus
      And we used a PBS with "light cartridges" for it ... we learn the math part! "Expert"

      You really amuse me - with PBS / PBS-1 US cartridges are used (reduced speed) with a small hitch of P-45 gunpowder and a HEAVY bullet, a distinctive feature of the bullet’s black-green nose. - An expert special forces officer himself would do well to get involved in advising others. laughing
      Quote: Region-25.rus
      when the AS VAL was practically gone!

      Oh how! and men don’t know! But if you continue your thought, now the Army men Valov chew your ass, but for some reason they continue to use AKMSs in reconnaissance, which are still the main sample there - will this unsurprising expert from the harsh 25 region explain to us this incident?
      Quote: Region-25.rus
      for they themselves participated with them when they worked as simple bouncers in bars ... and reassured the most violent with one touch of the fingers on their neck

      The Ussuri tiger with bare hands did not go with them? no? and snake raw on the lawn did not use? Well then, they’re definitely not from the 14th ObrSpN GRU of the General Staff of the Russian Federation laughing
  32. Leader
    Leader 14 January 2016 21: 18 New
    +1
    Quote: Valery 1966
    It would be interesting to know their opinion, if they were given a submachine gun and said "Run, step on the enemy's trenches" .... Then they would have thrust their tongues into their ass and were silent.

    Shove your own, b ... to.

    1) I can hardly imagine a situation when a machine gunner with such a "mechanism" on his shoulders will be wounded or killed.
    Here, in a quick way, you can't snatch a PC out of his hand, especially on the ground. Even behind some kind of shelter - how long will it take to "change clothes"?
    2) Well, small boxes of 100 rounds or individual tapes allow you to distribute the load across several spins, depending on the need.
    And here you will even have to carry the "dead" weight after using up some part of the BC until you return to the base.
    3) Loose tape - an increase in the cost of war. Nobody will collect links for surrender.
    4) And how to equip in the trench or on the go?
    1. Massik
      Massik 14 January 2016 23: 26 New
      0
      Quote: Leader

      1) I can hardly imagine a situation when a machine gunner with such a "mechanism" on his shoulders will be wounded or killed.
      Here, in a quick way, you can't snatch a PC out of his hand, especially on the ground. Even behind some kind of shelter - how long will it take to "change clothes"?
      Since when has self-resetting on the straps of a backpack become something very rare? Click a pair of carabiners on the straps and you're done. The corpse-wounded will still have to be turned over in order to get to the boxes at unloading.
      Quote: Leader
      2) Well, small boxes of 100 rounds or individual tapes allow you to distribute the load across several spins, depending on the need.
      And here you will even have to carry the "dead" weight after using up some part of the BC until you return to the base.
      If the weapon does not discharge when returning to the LDPE, then the road to the LDPE is not safe and the need for machine-gun fire can occur at any time. Even 300 rounds is not enough, 15 minutes of medium-intensive shooting and they are not there. Next you need to crawl and look for who was carrying your ammunition. For some reason, no one goes to the machine with 4 shops with a gun, they take a minimum of 8. So the machine gunner must drag at least 500 with him if there is no second number.
      Quote: Leader
      3) Loose tape - an increase in the cost of war. Nobody will collect links for surrender.
      Since when have ribbons of 25 become extremely scarce? Take it and pick it up, you have to pick up the shops too. There is already a question to supply, and not to this gadget.
      Quote: Leader
      4) And how to equip in the trench or on the go?
      As well as the usual box, there are no difficulties in laying.
  33. dzeredzavkomimu
    dzeredzavkomimu 14 January 2016 23: 42 New
    0
    when changing positions, do not dig in normally, do not dive into the trench, do not detach quickly, constantly clings, while teleporting to the beat, and reload fast - use standard boxes? where to carry them?, and carry around a backpack with a paraguard? and show off to no avail, this is tantamount to an automatic machine tied to a belt with a cable with a finger thick and run like Makarov tied with a cord to a cabaret, generally led me out)))
  34. gross kaput
    gross kaput 15 January 2016 12: 03 New
    0
    Still, in order to understand the need for this pribluda and the balance of its advantages / disadvantages, one should turn to the primary sources? Those. to the American developments of the 60s, by the Americans in Vietnam, such things allowing to create a high density of fire were extremely in demand, some developments of a belt-fed machine gun for a 12-caliber grape shot are worth it, in addition to this the hasty return of pump-action shotguns, the development of a grape shot for the M79 and much was also a consequence of the specifics of fighting in the jungle. But despite the need for such "gadgets", the Americans still eventually abandoned this pribluda, and not only the infantry but also the special forces, although they seemed to like it, from the memoirs of the veterans of the American special forces, the standard tactics of WG actions when meeting in in the jungle with the Viet Cong - a powerful fire effect in the first seconds, and the machine gunner with the M-60 completely fired off the tape in almost one burst and a quick retreat without firing, scattering surprises behind him - the fire effect forced the enemy to hastily seek shelter and try to understand who they were dealing with - then - whether the patrol is a large unit, and the won a couple of minutes was enough for the WG to have time to hide in the jungle. But despite this, even in the US special forces, they refused such a knapsack with cartridges - I wonder why? smile
  35. Chtononibrator
    Chtononibrator 17 January 2016 01: 10 New
    0
    Quote: Valery 1966
    Would they want to see several such machine guns running next to them so that the enemy would not protrude from the trench?

    No, they did not want to, for the enemy would concentrate all the fire on them. If you have at least a minigun does not negate the advantage of an enemy protected by a trench.
  36. Leader
    Leader 19 January 2016 11: 46 New
    0
    Quote: Marssik
    Since when has self-resetting on the straps of a backpack become something very rare?

    PC with a fastened box for 100 rounds to grab (pick up from the ground) - second.
    And this mechanism ... - it is necessary to wear it, "correctly-oriented", preferably with an assistant.
    Estimate how and how much time you will remove from the corpse of a machine gunner?
    Quote: Marssik
    For some reason, no one goes to the machine with 4 shops to the war

    A pointless argument, I'm not talking about that; I'm about the distribution of cargo on the fighters at the transition.
    They shoot very rarely in war; more often and most of all - it's sweat: they walk, dig, wait ... And then 4kg empty weight!
    Quote: Marssik
    Since when have ribbons of 25 become extremely scarce?

    You again are not talking about that. You confuse pieces of tape and loose, single links.
    in the basic configuration, the Scorpion kit is designed for use with rifle cartridges of 7,62x54 mm R and loose metal tapes

    Quote: Marssik
    As well as the usual box, there are no difficulties in laying.

    No, there is a big difference.
    Quote: gross kaput
    in Vietnam, such things, which allow creating a high density of fire, were extremely in demand ... even in the US special forces they refused such a satchel with cartridges - I wonder why?

    However, until now they have not received any distribution in the infantry; are used only on stationary firing points (such as a car). Which indirectly confirms: the fighters do not show the desire to "have", only the manufacturer is interested.
    I agree with you: the device is of little use.