Military Review

"Poroshenko is not at all the same": the split of Ukraine is getting stronger

245



It is not known for certain who made Petro Poroshenko this time the best New Year's gift: whether he himself, singling out another fat government purchase for factories belonging to himself, or someone from grateful gods who are in high positions in Kiev. But the worst gift came from there, from where it certainly was not expected - from the USA.

One of the most respected sociological organizations in the Western world - Gallup - published the shocking data of the opinion poll conducted in Ukraine. The verdict of Petro Poroshenko’s researchers is unequivocal - his popularity has fallen far below even the popularity of Viktor Yanukovych in the pre-Mayan time. In terms of public disapproval, Poroshenko became the second in modern stories President of Ukraine-after his godfather Yushchenko. Poroshenko outgrowed today only at Yatsenyuk, whose government, according to the materials of the American study, still reached a record threshold in terms of falling support levels.

I will note right away that American sociologists not only did not conduct a survey in the Crimea, but did not even begin to plot it on the map of Ukraine. Donbass they put on the map of Ukraine, but the survey was not conducted there. In general, the results of interviewing represent exclusively the opinion of residents of the territories controlled by official Kiev, which makes them even more curious.

In general, the rating of Petro Poroshenko as president of Ukraine was 17%. In all regions without exception, the level of support for the President-oligarch was significantly lower than the level of disapproval, but there was still some regional specificity.

In the West and in the Center of Ukraine, Poroshenko’s support was “above average”, making up 22%. In the North, it reached smaller values ​​- only 21%. But in the South and East (without Donbass) Poroshenko supported all 7 and 11% of respondents, respectively.

Sociologists say that Viktor Yanukovych, even before the Maidan as a whole in Ukraine, had much higher support than Poroshenko’s today - 28%! In the entire history of modern Ukraine, Poroshenko’s anti-record could only beat Yushchenko, whose level of support in 2009 fell to 7% before the presidential elections.

Also, researchers pay attention to the fact that in the most "pro-Western" Kiev Poroshenko's rating today is almost the same as in the 2013 year was Yanukovych - 21% vs. 20% ...

The level of support for the government of Arseniy Yatsenyuk today is only 8%. The indicator in the history of Ukraine never fell below this bar. He was the same before only once - against the backdrop of the parliamentary crisis under Yushchenko in 2007. Just a year ago, the approval level of the Kiev Cabinet was exactly three times higher.

88% of respondents said that corruption is widespread in the country. And the number of those who believe that the authorities are really fighting it turned out to be less than in the 2013 year before the start of Euromaidan (5 and 6 percent, respectively). 65% of the residents of the territories controlled by Kiev believes that Ukraine is moving completely in the wrong direction.

What conclusions can be drawn from the results of research by American sociologists?

We can state that the “integral” (presidential-parliamentary) indicator of support for the current government in Ukraine has collapsed to record-breaking historical lows. Does it follow from the fact that Yanukovych before Maidan was much more popular than Poroshenko, and the government of Azarov had a significantly higher level of approval than the Yatsenyuk Cabinet, that in Ukraine it is possible to repeat the scenario of the end of 2013 - the beginning of 2014 of the year? Unfortunately, this is very unlikely.

Firstly, Poroshenko managed to build an ineffective in matters of law enforcement, but extremely effective in protecting his own power punitive apparatus. Poroshenko and Yatsenyuk made the necessary conclusions from Yanukovych’s mistakes and set wages in 3-4 for “their” security forces higher than the national average. Against the background of the general monstrous poverty, the security forces, already past “anti-recruiting” in the 2014 year, began to serve those who committed the coup d'état and strive to do everything possible to protect the existing government and to maintain a relatively privileged status. In addition, they have already elementary "burned bridges." And in order to preserve the existing regime, the punitive system creates an atmosphere of general terror, with the result that some people die or "go missing", while others receive long prison sentences for posts in social networks or the spread of the opposition press.

Secondly, this factor is the key, the society in the territories controlled by Kiev is completely divided. If most of the population of the South-East in opposition to Poroshenko and Yatsenyuk are constructively pro-Russian, then those who do not support the current government in the West, the North and the Center of Ukraine are rapidly becoming radicalized, replenishing the ranks of neo-Nazi and extremely pro-Western radicals.

Accordingly, there are even fewer "points of contact" between the two parts of the "Ukrainian opposition" than each of them separately with the current "power". Therefore, the rapid decline in the rating of power is more evidence than the prospects for its change, but the prospects for the collapse of Ukraine, which in a certain sense is perhaps the most humane option in relation to its population.

Why is the rating of Kiev "president" and "government" collapsed so rapidly? This is, in principle, obvious. Ukraine's GDP in dollar terms compared to the 2013 level of the year to date already collapsed almost 2 timesthat is one of the world's anti-record. Incomes of the population, according to official Kiev statistics, only in the current year collapsed on 26%. Utility rates have recently increased in 3 - 4 times: the total rent in the heating season for 2-3-room apartment is up to 2000 hryvnia, with an average salary on hands after deducting taxes on the order of 2500 hryvnia in the province and 3000 on average in the country. And in the year 2016 Ukrainians waiting for a radical radical increase in prices, taxes and utility tariffs.

In addition to economic issues, the military-political factor also plays its role. The population of the South-East in its mass strongly opposes the war in the Donbas in principle, and the North-West craves for victorious war to a "victorious end". For obvious reasons, official Kiev cannot fully satisfy either of those or others ...

What predictions can be made on the basis of sociological research?

There are three main scenarios.

Option one. There is some consensus between official Kiev and external forces that will lead not to formal, but to real federalization of the country. Judging by the position of the vice-president of the USA, Biden of Ukraine’s curator, the American authorities also became supporters of this option, for which it gradually turns into the only possibility of preserving the “united Ukraine” and shifting part of the costs of its maintenance to the Russian Federation.

The second option. Relying on punitive measures and a punitive apparatus, Poroshenko for some time keeps the rapidly impoverished Ukraine under his control. Representatives of the older generation and socially unprotected layers are dying out massively from hunger and disease. Working citizens also massively scatter: who is to Russia, who is to Europe. The former Ukraine is turning either into a poorly impoverished agrarian territory, or is being used for its own purposes by transnational corporations, but already with “renewed” at the expense of African-Asian migrants and western population managers.

Option three. Ukraine finally collapses. In the South-East, a loyal Russia and aspiring states are created: either a federation of republics with broad powers, or a centralized entity under the auspices of Donbass, which led the initial liberation struggle.

The fate of the Northwest is more vague. There either there will be a single project loyal to the West, fueled by small amounts of loans, as an outpost against Russia and the South-East, or a patchwork of territories divided between neighbors according to historical traditions: Poland, Hungary, Romania.

Probability of fourth option - coming to power in Kiev of an adequate elite, able to unite the people and pursue a constructive course in the objective interests of the entire population, tends to zero. Too different these interests.
Author:
Originator:
http://politrussia.com/world/poroshenko-uzhe-sovsem-738/
245 comments
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  1. izya top
    izya top 10 January 2016 06: 52 New
    50
    yes and xpen with them, with these pigs
    1. vlad66
      vlad66 10 January 2016 08: 10 New
      42
      Quote: iza top
      yes and xpen with them, with these pigs

      With this pig, it’s just to hell with her. I think everyone will be better, except of course the 404 territory itself.
      1. V.ic
        V.ic 10 January 2016 08: 42 New
        +5
        Quote: vlad66
        This pig is definitely to hell with her.

        Here is something the character in the "domina" of Baruch Nemtsov reminds ...
        1. WKS
          WKS 10 January 2016 10: 44 New
          +9
          I do not believe such a high rating from this outspoken rogue and liar. Most likely rigging.
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. tank64rus
            tank64rus 11 January 2016 22: 14 New
            +2
            The main thing is not how to interrogate, but how to calculate. All the same, their son of a bitch.
        2. Sasha 19871987
          Sasha 19871987 10 January 2016 12: 05 New
          14
          I can no longer read and hear news about Ukrainians - their people, embittered terpily, and the government - currency givers
          1. Lelek
            Lelek 10 January 2016 13: 08 New
            +6
            Quote: Sasha 19871987
            I can no longer read and hear news about Ukrainians - their people, embittered terpily, and the government - currency givers


            Yes, this former Ukraine is sicker than "karassin", but nothing can be done, this cancerous tumor is located close to our state. Like it or not, but you will have to pay attention and deal with its problems - we are a member of the guarantors, however.
            Of all the 3 options, I personally like the third, and how it will turn out, only Vanga and Casey knew.
            By the way about the genius troubles:
            (cry.)
      2. kodxnumx
        kodxnumx 10 January 2016 09: 37 New
        11
        Quote: vlad66
        Quote: iza top
        yes and xpen with them, with these pigs

        With this pig, it’s just to hell with her. I think everyone will be better, except of course the 404 territory itself.

        Whoever wanted to destroy Ukraine had already achieved this, everyone in the West understood everything, and in the United States in particular, that if they stir up such a storm in Ukraine, it will simply cease to exist, the conclusion means they wanted this, now the Russians need to be pulled out of these ruins together with the territory! And let the banderlogy go wherever it wants, from them to the state everything is exactly 0 benefit, hassle and problems they can clearly add with their idol a bondera!
      3. tomcat117
        tomcat117 10 January 2016 09: 56 New
        +8
        Commentary on the video:
        The coffin would have had to be made wider, well, at least for three, otherwise two devils had long lingered on the ground against the background.
        1. Viktortopwar
          Viktortopwar 11 January 2016 22: 33 New
          0
          They will first dig a grave for him, but then ... you can go there too.
      4. MIKHAN
        MIKHAN 10 January 2016 11: 24 New
        +2
        Quote: vlad66
        Quote: iza top
        yes and xpen with them, with these pigs

        With this pig, it’s just to hell with her. I think everyone will be better, except of course the 404 territory itself.

        We need a live piglet, definitely! negative
      5. 30BIS
        30BIS 11 January 2016 11: 43 New
        +1
        Judas always has a sad end .. Thirty pieces of silver across the throat of Petyuni Waltzman - Judas stood up, suffocate. Bloody redneck -JUDAS !!
    2. Voha_krim
      Voha_krim 10 January 2016 08: 22 New
      11
      Svidomye ukropatrioty, genetically deprived of the ability to speak and hear the truth.

      Even when Nenka is in a state of "Uncle, pour me more ne, because I'm like that, yak need you," your inverted consciousness calls defeat a change ...

      Don't want to be brothers? And strike with you, but don't be idiots!

      Who is interested, I recommend "So ... who are you, Ukrainians?" http://cont.ws/post/177340
      1. Phantom Revolution
        Phantom Revolution 10 January 2016 09: 22 New
        21
        Here is the debate of analysts at Russia Today, perhaps someone will be useful.
        One thing is clear that the USA does not close the project and will continue to use it against us until we organize the Maidan.
        1. EvgNik
          EvgNik 10 January 2016 10: 37 New
          +2
          Thanks for the video, interesting. There is not always time to watch RT.
        2. Lelek
          Lelek 10 January 2016 13: 42 New
          +2
          Quote: Phantom Revolution
          Here is the debate of analysts at Russia Today, perhaps someone will be useful.


          A very good and sober conversation, but I'm afraid it did not go over the wide "publicity" of the US, Britain and the EU. But its very appearance in the English version is a big plus in normalizing the situation in the world. By the way, there is some progress in the thinking of François Hollande (click.):
          1. Saratoga833
            Saratoga833 10 January 2016 21: 53 New
            +2
            Quote: Lelek
            thinking François Hollande

            I don’t understand, this Hollande or d ... or was he born like that?
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. Lelek
        Lelek 10 January 2016 13: 54 New
        +3
        Quote: Voha_krim
        Svidomye ukropatrioty, genetically deprived of the ability to speak and hear the truth.


        Yes, this is so, but "svidomye" is not some kind of monolith, but a conglomerate of gangs of different composition, convictions and nationality, working for oligarchs of different interests. According to the method of Professor KOROCCHE - a combined hodgepodge, Gulyai-Pole, and they are unlikely to come to a common denominator, more likely a war of all against all will begin for their individual skinny interest. Yes, it is actually already underway, but in a quiet way.
        (cry.)
    3. Skif83
      Skif83 10 January 2016 09: 06 New
      18
      Yes, to hell with them, but backfire and us!
      This scenario is also possible: - Ukraine is split up (federalized ...), part of it goes under the Russian protectorate, and this, as it is said, is for "... and shifting part of the costs of its maintenance to the Russian Federation." And part of them scatters to other countries, and the outskirts of the west and southwest. populated just by Arabs, etc., who are now in the role of refugees.
      Thus, the problem is transferred from Europe to the borders of Russia ...
      The outskirts must be "brought to mind" now, without giving them over to the Europians, otherwise these problems will be ours for a long time!
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 10 January 2016 09: 49 New
        +2
        Part of it goes under the Russian protectorate - yes, nafig they are needed - to pay debts for them, our government will not join anyone else.
      2. captain
        captain 10 January 2016 10: 53 New
        11
        I do not know what will happen to Ukraine, but at present we simply cannot join other territories to the Russian Federation. It is impossible because of the worldwide cry for aggressive Russia. I do not think that our president will spit on a worldwide cry, he understands that we have an economically, rather weak state at this stage. We spanked the "fat oil" years when it was possible to carry out the industrial revival of the Russian Federation. Now it is very difficult, we must not let the welfare of ordinary citizens fall too low. And we are afraid to raise taxes for the rich, all of a sudden everyone will run away and the economy will collapse. So we have one way; help the collapse of Ukraine and the part that will be close to us in spirit and mentality.
        1. go21zd45few
          go21zd45few 10 January 2016 14: 45 New
          +7
          And that it was easy for Stalin to raise the country after the Bolshevik devastation, because Russia at that time was also under sanctions, and despite this, even with cruel methods, he raised the industry and economy of Russia. And we,
          now we are afraid of those who, in the 90s, stole the Russian economy and robbed
          own people, it's time for the people to wake up.
        2. Siberian
          Siberian 10 January 2016 19: 26 New
          11
          Annexing Donbass ("big Donbass", including Kherson, Odessa, Nikolaev. Zaporozhye) would be a great success. Until everything is destroyed there, we will quickly rise to our feet if we spit on all the sanctions, offenses of the West, the Polish-Baltic squeal.
          I hope that in Crimea, Putin hinted who wanted - understood: this is when he said that the annexation of Donbass on the street is not being resolved and this concerns the people of Donbass and the Russian people. This is a referendum. We must put the squeeze on the Outskirts with its constitutional treason, and - go ahead!
          Donbass is not fighting in order to chew Ukrainian gum. And for us to remember and realize again - seven troubles - one answer. And don't give a damn about everything.
          All puppies should be squeezed out at the same time to their historical homeland - closer to Poland. They are not going to work, nor are they going to build their own state. you will not be full by jumping with chants. Nobody will take Banderostan on the balance sheet and they will also have to climb under someone. Here already - the game must be tricky and let the diplomats tense up.
          1. 30BIS
            30BIS 11 January 2016 20: 31 New
            +1
            Totally agree with you! Delay is like, if not death, then huge additional financial and human losses .. Both from the side of Novorossiya with financial and human losses .. and from Russia with huge additional financial costs and losses. All the same, in five or seven years, wounded, with a completely destroyed industry, drained of blood and great human losses (PEOPLE !! Our RUSSIANS !!) will have to raise New Russia in the south-east of the former Ukraine. Of course, our people are no strangers to difficulties .. But! Well, they are on ..Fig! "The street taught us to beat" FIRST !!!
        3. taseka
          taseka 11 January 2016 09: 24 New
          +3
          It is necessary to raise taxes for the rich, and who runs away - to nationalize his good as a traitor to the motherland. The economy will not collapse! The question is different, for whoever is in power is rich!
        4. Ros 56
          Ros 56 11 January 2016 12: 47 New
          +2
          Quote: captain
          I do not know what will happen to Ukraine, but at present we simply cannot join other territories to the Russian Federation. It is impossible because of the worldwide cry for aggressive Russia. I do not think that our president will spit on a worldwide cry, he understands that we have an economically, rather weak state at this stage. We spanked the "fat oil" years when it was possible to carry out the industrial revival of the Russian Federation. Now it is very difficult, we must not let the welfare of ordinary citizens fall too low. And we are afraid to raise taxes for the rich, all of a sudden everyone will run away and the economy will collapse. So we have one way; help the collapse of Ukraine and the part that will be close to us in spirit and mentality.


          Interesting reasoning, but in order.
          the first is about screams, history is made not by screams, but by deeds. If we responded to all the screams, would Russia be so huge?
          second - let me ask you, where did you personally invest your income from the "fat oil" years? Ah, you didn't get anything, why are you taking responsibility for the fact that the authorities were filling their pockets and doing nothing in terms of the development of the country's economy. Yes, and you know what belongs to whom in Russia, and who commands what? I will not go deeper if you want to find everything on the Internet. For example - just imagine for a minute, the governor has one billion in his "pocket", that's 200 kg. money, only one. For the entire housing and communal services for overhaul in 2010-11, 100 billion were allocated a year for the whole country, comparable? For 16 years, 50 billion has been allocated from the federal budget for the overhaul of all schools. And ask, where do our former ministers, deputies, their families, their children, their money live? Then one of the members of the forum in all seriousness was going to swing a nuclear club with the states. Well, think for yourself who will bomb your house, family, bank over the hill, where his money is. Naive.
        5. vkfriendly
          vkfriendly 11 January 2016 15: 00 New
          0
          We didn’t screw up, the Medvedev government didn’t purposefully do anything, and the Central Bank was withdrawing currency by buying up debt securities and thereby feeding the American economy, but not ours.
      3. Weyland
        Weyland 10 January 2016 21: 48 New
        0
        Quote: Skif83
        outskirts west and southwest. populated just by Arabs, etc., who are now in the role of refugees.


        CHSKh, in the gene pool of Rusyns (the so-called "Westerners") about a third is made up of a purely African haplogroup E1b (its invasion into Europe took place 35-36 centuries ago through Greece and Albania; in particular, its carriers are Napoleon, Hitler and Obama). Perhaps history repeats itself and 35 centuries ago the then EU diluted the then Svidomo with African migrants? laughing
    4. evil partisan
      evil partisan 10 January 2016 09: 27 New
      +4
      Quote: iza top
      yes and xpen with them, with these pigs

      How's that with them?fool And our gefest ??? Oh, not evgey, you Izya, not evhei ...
      Hello comrade. Izya. tongue
      1. izya top
        izya top 10 January 2016 09: 31 New
        +3
        Quote: wicked partisan
        And our gefest?

        and what gesheft, you ate, shlemazl, all the positions request
        healthy hi
    5. meriem1
      meriem1 10 January 2016 10: 13 New
      15
      Quote: iza top
      yes and xpen with them, with these pigs


      Yeah. The day is not far off when the "repentant" will crawl up and ask for help! Do we need this weight? What have we not heard about ourselves !!! Donbass is one thing. Let the rest swim in their Europeanness. Right sector ... get wet.
      Moreover, they have grown up. For 20 years they have been pumping the brain of children. Any talk shop about the revival of "brotherhood" will be hypocrisy and a lie. It will be possible to talk about something in thirty years and then, carefully looking at politics and what will be published in the media. Let the lovers of freebies feel for themselves everything .... that they have sown.
      1. uralex
        uralex 10 January 2016 11: 43 New
        +5
        The day is not far off when the "repentant" will crawl up and ask for help! Do we need this weight?

        Whether we like it or not, we will have to pull this weight. An example of this is the situation with gas in Mariupol ...
        After all that has happened in Ukraine over the past two years, it is very difficult to see Ukrainians as a brotherly people, but our state still shares a simple Ukrainian people and a hostile ukrovlast ...
        1. varov14
          varov14 10 January 2016 12: 52 New
          +3
          Gas assistance is a no-lose option. First, he shows before international public opinion, and Russian society as well, our high spirituality, that we are always ready to help those who are suffering for free. And secondly, it is also beneficial for our oligarchs, they will always help their Ukrainian brothers and gladly shift the costs onto their own people, naturally with the support and insistence of this very people. Well, thirdly, it is also beneficial for the Ukrainian government, Russia can be watered further, and with complete impunity and for Russian money, i.e. ours with you. All in chocolate.
        2. Suhow
          Suhow 10 January 2016 23: 26 New
          +4
          I entered it a little late today, in general the article is true (trust in the government as well as income is falling) the current government has well-trained security officials (in general), but despite the disunity of interests, many will unite to fight it, then of course it will be like in Libya and if the Russian Federation supports (unobtrusively) moderate and pro-Russian-minded, then Ukraine will become a normal neighbor, albeit not an ally, but a good-neighborly country, and for this you will only need weapon-based resource support. Disappointment both by the West and the authorities visit the minds of moderate Svidomo, and the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Against the well-trained pro-government battalions there will be retirees, part of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the same volunteer battalions until the extreme boiling point just came. I’m from Ukraine and, let's say, described the vision of the situation from my bell tower and communicating with my friends ... I think at the King's cockroach the description of the situation here comes out better, but what is rich.
    6. Finches
      Finches 10 January 2016 10: 14 New
      +6
      In (c) Ukraine, no adequate elite can live, like Ukraine itself, this is just a territory inhabited by a certain ethnic group, but has nothing to do with the state ... You cannot build something out of nothing! In Europe, they do not understand this, but they do not understand, more at the request of the United States, and not because they do not know! Most in Europe know that Ukraine is a myth! Ukraine is Poland - west and Russia - east! The best solution for Europe is just such a division, but Ukraine imposed on the Europeans from the United States is a permanent problem now and in the future! The Dutch, good fellows - if the guys from the State Department do not rustle there, then on April 8 at their referendum the answer will be unambiguous - there is no association for Ukraine - then all sorts of American mongrels, such as Junkerk, twitch in the EU, as if they did not fulfill the plan of daddies from Washington! Poroshenko understands perfectly well that it is not long left to play music, so he rowing with his mouth and ass - he and his camarilla do not care about Ukraine from the high bell tower!
    7. Simon
      Simon 10 January 2016 10: 23 New
      +3
      Apparently the Ukrainians wanted this when they jumped on the Maidan!
      1. Lelek
        Lelek 10 January 2016 18: 37 New
        +1
        Quote: Simon
        Apparently the Ukrainians wanted this when they jumped on the Maidan!


        And now they want and "jump", though not on the Maidan. And I don't know which is worse.
        (cry.)
    8. SSR
      SSR 10 January 2016 10: 56 New
      +3
      The UNN officials have increased the frequency of the use of foul language and provocative calls to incite interethnic intolerance, illegal proliferation of weapons, which poses a threat to the life and health of Ukrainian citizens. The editors of UNN decided to disable the ability to leave comments on the site until the political situation in the country stabilizes. Thank you for understanding.

      If I understood correctly, comments are disabled on many Ukrainian publications. I think comments are not disabled on such resources as the censor, but the censor is banned by our (at least) provider and go there through anonymizers and so on ... Frankly lazy.
      In general, they are tightening the nuts for their citizens, and now, taking into account new trade relations with the Russian Federation from 2016, it will be even worse.
      1. Viktortopwar
        Viktortopwar 11 January 2016 22: 43 New
        0
        Why "walk" on the censor, just look rambler, sometimes Russophobia from there is fatter.
  2. Same lech
    Same lech 10 January 2016 06: 53 New
    21
    What conclusions can be drawn from the results of research by American sociologists?


    smile Shitty ....

    A priori, I don't trust any conclusions of American experts ...
    everyone knows their habit of tailoring research data to the wishes of WASHINGTON.
    I believe that the worst for UKRAINE is yet to come, and POROSHENKO's rating is just an insignificant trifle on the scale of the impending catastrophe for today's EUROPE.

    What is going on there defies any normal logic ...
    EUROPE is being broken through the knee ... heh he POROSHENKO climbs in there to break his neck.
    Ordinary citizens of UKRAINE do not take into account ... what a herd of sheep, led by such a leader as POROSHENKO, can do ... just jump into the abyss in droves ... which is what we observe.

    Not in topic (I apologize to the members of the forum)
    Colonel Kononov, deputy commander of the 100th brigade of the Republican Guard, died from a sniper bullet


    I am very saddened by this news ...
    I would like to discuss in detail on the forum the very poor work of counterintelligence and security services in the DPR ... am

    How long can you follow the actions of the enemy, both from the outside and from the outside ... bad very bad.
    1. Sid.74
      10 January 2016 07: 00 New
      26
      Quote: The same Lech
      what a herd of sheep can do, led by such a leader as POSHENKO ...

      For example .... THIS ... fellow Rambo, the beginning! lol

      1. atalef
        atalef 10 January 2016 07: 10 New
        +1
        Quote: Sid.74
        Quote: The same Lech
        what a herd of sheep can do, led by such a leader as POSHENKO ...

        For example .... THIS ... fellow

        I don't know of course, but if you look at the facts
        1.Ukraine has not collapsed
        2. DNR and LNR stagnate within their borders and there is no talk of any expansion
        3. The army recovered from a complete minus, at least minimally to zero.
        4. Economy - how else? It was bad, it got worse and this is logical. There is nothing to improve with.
        By the way, in Russia with this case (in the face of the economy, not much better, and after all, Poroshenko does not seem to be in power)
        Let's see realistically - they hold on for now and, strangely enough, they achieve almost everything
        1. Gas discounts
        2.Failure to pay debt
        3.Also, they impose sanctions, from a ban on flights to food.
        4 Who else hears the words “junta and ukrofashists” on TV? No longer, why?
        5 Disconnect Crimea with impunity
        You can say anything you like, but facts are a stubborn thing.
        Russia has not yet been able not to ruin Ukraine, not to throw Poroshenko.
        At the same time, it suffered losses in the form of sanctions, etc. not less than Ukraine.
        Was the game worth the candle?
        1. svp67
          svp67 10 January 2016 07: 15 New
          30
          Quote: atalef
          Russia has not yet been able not to ruin Ukraine, not to throw Poroshenko.

          hi Wake up. That's what, what, but Russia does not need either the first or the second, we need ALL Ukraine.
          This is more profitable for Poland and Hungary, then they will calmly take "their". And Poroshenko will leave, will the Ukrainian Putin come or even worse Hitler and we need it ...?
          At the same time, it suffered losses in the form of sanctions, etc. not less than Ukraine.
          Ha, ha ... 40% inflation in Russia? Well, of course you see it from Israel fellow
          Was the game worth the candle?
          The game is only at the very beginning
          1. atalef
            atalef 10 January 2016 08: 11 New
            -12
            Quote: svp67
            And Poroshenko will leave, will the Ukrainian Putin come or even worse Hitler and we need it ...?

            Was it worth it to bring to that. that Poroshenko even came
            Quote: svp67
            Ha, ha ... 40% inflation in Russia? Well, of course you see it from Israel

            What does inflation have to do with it?
            then. what is bad in Ukraine is understandable. but why did it get worse in Russia?
            or that. what is worse in Ukraine than in Russia - is that happy?
            The question is actually that. Why should the average Russian suffer for the sake of Ukraine?
            Quote: svp67
            The game is only at the very beginning

            oh yes. it's only the beginning.
            Our generation will live under communism - even the Khrushchev said.
            1. GRAY
              GRAY 10 January 2016 08: 19 New
              +9
              Quote: atalef
              oh yes. it's only the beginning.

              Maybe so, only the scale of events is not regional, but global. An interesting moment yesterday was:
              Russian naval forces have reported that the entire Atlantic Ocean appears to be completely absent from cargo ships for the first time in history, yournewswire.com writes.

              The Kremlin says the Panamax and New-Panamax vessels (a type of container ship, as well as tankers and other vessels that have the maximum dimensions to pass through the Panama Canal locks, lock sizes: 305 meters long, 33,5 meters wide, 26 meters deep - approx. Newscom.md), as well as all types of vessels carrying liquid carrier (oil / liquefied natural gas), including supertankers of the VLCC and ULCC type, were nowhere to be seen.

              Trade between Europe and North America has literally stopped, superstation95.com writes. For the first time in known history, no cargo ship crosses the North Atlantic between Europe and North America. All of them (hundreds), either anchored offshore or in port. Nothing moves.

              This has never happened before. This is a terrifying economic sign; proof that trading has literally stopped.

              The reason for the stop is simple: People don't buy goods. When people don't buy goods, retail doesn't sell anything and doesn't replenish its warehouses, which means it doesn't make new orders.

              When retailers don't place new orders, manufacturers also don't do anything because there is no demand. When manufacturers don't create goods, they don't order raw materials and supplies for production.

              When there are no orders for raw materials, sellers do not sell raw materials. That is, the whole chain does not work and large cargo ships do not go to sea (either by rail or by road) to transport anything.
              1. atalef
                atalef 10 January 2016 08: 26 New
                -14
                Quote: GRAY
                Maybe so, only the scale of events is not regional, but global. An interesting moment yesterday was:

                Come on . To you. so in the whole Atlantic and not a single ship. Well, honestly.
                Well, add more. that this is the Russian plan to collapse the world economy.
                What?
                1. GRAY
                  GRAY 10 January 2016 08: 42 New
                  10
                  Quote: atalef
                  Come on . To you. so in the whole Atlantic and not a single ship. Well, honestly.

                  We mean the largest, and large ships, traditionally the most in demand, since the more cargo a ship can take, the lower the cost of transportation per unit of goods.
                  Well, add more. that this is the Russian plan to collapse the world economy.

                  What makes you think that Russia needs it? We do not live on the moon, it will affect us too.
                  It's just an indicator of economic activity, that's all. Bell.
                  1. atalef
                    atalef 10 January 2016 08: 46 New
                    -7
                    Quote: GRAY
                    We mean the largest, and large ships, traditionally the most in demand, since the more cargo a ship can take, the lower the cost of transportation per unit of goods.

                    Christmas holidays have nothing to do with this?
                    so the question?
                    Quote: GRAY
                    It's just an indicator of economic activity, that's all. Bell.

                    It is difficult to judge the trend so far. but China is making trouble.
                    1. GRAY
                      GRAY 10 January 2016 08: 57 New
                      +5
                      Quote: atalef
                      Christmas holidays have nothing to do with this?

                      No, ship downtime = losses, the owners of the companies will not go for it.
                      Quote: atalef
                      It is difficult to judge the trend so far. but China is making trouble.

                      Goods from China go through the Pacific Ocean to the United States, and everything was fine there with the movement of ships.
                      1. atalef
                        atalef 10 January 2016 09: 23 New
                        -8
                        Quote: GRAY
                        Quote: atalef
                        Christmas holidays have nothing to do with this?

                        No, ship downtime = losses, the owners of the companies will not go for it.
                        Quote: atalef
                        It is difficult to judge the trend so far. but China is making trouble.

                        Goods from China go through the Pacific Ocean to the United States, and everything was fine there with the movement of ships.

                        What does it mean to go or not? All over the world (Christian) currency Russia holidays, whether employers like it or not;
                        As for China, this did not concern transportation. So the fact of the collapse of the Shanghai Stock Exchange
                      2. GRAY
                        GRAY 10 January 2016 11: 41 New
                        +7
                        Quote: atalef
                        What does it mean to go or not? All over the world (Christian) currency Russia holidays, whether employers like it or not;

                        Well, yes, of course, in 2016 they decided to arrange a vacation. In previous years, nothing like this happened, but here on you - they decided to rest.
                  2. activator
                    activator 10 January 2016 09: 17 New
                    11
                    Quote: atalef
                    Christmas holidays have nothing to do with this?
                    so the question?

                    Well, except that Catholics and others began to celebrate Christmas according to the Orthodox calendar.
                    1. atalef
                      atalef 10 January 2016 09: 24 New
                      -12
                      Quote: activator
                      Quote: atalef
                      Christmas holidays have nothing to do with this?
                      so the question?

                      Well, except that Catholics and others began to celebrate Christmas according to the Orthodox calendar.

                      Did you cancel their vacation?
                    2. Travian
                      Travian 10 January 2016 19: 58 New
                      +3
                      they have holidays from Christmas until New Year. 2 January and further working days
                2. Travian
                  Travian 10 January 2016 19: 57 New
                  0
                  ... the dragon stops ...
            2. 33 Watcher
              33 Watcher 10 January 2016 10: 19 New
              +9
              This is the American plan to bring down the Russian economy. And where the Americans are, there is also all NATO. Well, here, what is controversial again? What, incomprehensible? This is how we are at war with half the world, all our life. We are guilty that we exist.
          2. svp67
            svp67 10 January 2016 08: 33 New
            +4
            Quote: GRAY
            The reason for the stop is simple:

            I am afraid that there can be much more reasons and the fact of the absence of ships at sea is quite alarming ...
            1. Sid.74
              10 January 2016 08: 45 New
              +4
              Quote: svp67
              I am afraid that there can be much more reasons and the fact of the absence of ships at sea is quite alarming ...

              There is such an index, called Baltic Drive, which shows the coefficient of container traffic, and so, there has never been such a fall as now ...Baltic Dry historical record: 445 UPD points

              And that’s not all ... Carriage in the USA fell in December by 15.6% compared to the 2014 year, containerized by 0.7%, in general, the decrease in rail freight traffic in December amounted to 8.9%. For the whole year, the decrease was 6.1% for railroad freight, a slight increase in 1.6% for containers and for railway traffic as a whole, the annual reduction was 2.5%.
        2. svp67
          svp67 10 January 2016 08: 41 New
          14
          Quote: atalef
          Was it worth it to bring to that. that Poroshenko even came
          Not worth it. This is an obvious failure of our policy in Ukraine. And what happened in the initial post-Maidan period is our improvisation, because we were not ready.
          Quote: atalef
          What does inflation have to do with it?

          With everything. You can also name the rate of decline in industrial production and much more. But when people receive, for often less money than they have to pay for utilities and the state does not provide these people with any assistance, this is the best indicator of the country's decline.
          Quote: atalef
          The question is actually that. Why should the average Russian suffer for the sake of Ukraine?

          Do not talk nonsense, there would be no Ukraine The US would have imposed sanctions on other reasons and the Russian "suffered" EVERYTHING
          Quote: atalef
          Our generation will live under communism - even the Khrushchev said.

          You know better, I haven't lived for so long. I was lucky enough to live in developed socialism
          1. Oleg14774
            Oleg14774 10 January 2016 11: 19 New
            +8
            Quote: svp67
            I was lucky enough to live in developed socialism

            me too, sorry the children didn't find me!
        3. V.ic
          V.ic 10 January 2016 08: 58 New
          +3
          Quote: atalef
          Our generation will live under communism - even the Khrushchev said.

          So his wife whispered to Citizen Permutter, so he blabbed, and Gorby & C ° tried to prevent the fairy tale from coming true.
        4. Kite
          Kite 10 January 2016 09: 19 New
          +5
          Quote: atalef
          then. what is bad in Ukraine is understandable

          - Is it getting better and better in Israel? wink Oil prices are falling, indices are falling, prices for all types of raw materials are falling, i.e. industrial production is falling everywhere. Is the demand for your products growing? smile And what are you doing there and distributing all over the world? wassat Than it smells?
          1. atalef
            atalef 10 January 2016 10: 20 New
            -7
            Quote: Kite
            is Israel getting better and better?

            no, but the article is not about Israel

            Quote: Kite
            Oil prices are falling, indices are falling, prices for all types of raw materials are falling, i.e. industrial production is falling everywhere.

            No, Israel does not fall and the States do the same.
            And the reduction in prices for raw materials is GUT, at least for us
            Quote: Kite
            Is the demand for your products growing?

            It is difficult to say for certain categories, but GDP in positive territory means that on average it is not bad
            Quote: Kite
            And what are you doing there and distributing all over the world?

            Have you been banned from Google?
            1. Kite
              Kite 10 January 2016 11: 35 New
              +6
              Quote: atalef
              no, but the article is not about Israel

              - and Israeli sites and topics are of little interest to me, I don't look there at all. Are you here from some melancholy?
              Are they showing you other charts?
              https://news.yandex.ru/quotes/12.png
              https://news.yandex.ru/quotes/1500.png
              https://news.yandex.ru/quotes/1501.png
              ......
              "... but GDP is in the black, it means, on average, not bad"
              - specify at least for yourself the reason.
              "Have you been banned from Google?" - what, for a sick person touched a question? The breakdown of the dialogue was outlined.
          2. The comment was deleted.
        5. evil partisan
          evil partisan 10 January 2016 09: 37 New
          +7
          Quote: atalef
          why did it get worse in Russia?

          Stop crying Yaroslavna! am
          Question (for filling ess-nno repeat ): in which country in Europe in 2015. has it gotten better? We answer in a complex, in a complex wink : material well-being, safety, psychology. There is no need to answer for Israel ... lol
          Hi spiteful! drinks
          1. atalef
            atalef 10 January 2016 10: 25 New
            -3
            Quote: wicked partisan
            Question (for filling ess-nno): in which country of Europe in 2015. has it gotten better?

            Hi, ask questions correctly laughing
            Otherwise it will turn out that the deterioration of life in Ukraine and in Monaco - let us lead to one answer - has become worse.
            You understand that the answer is not straightforward.
            Poverty is different, someone has liquid cabbage soup, someone has small pearls.
            Quote: wicked partisan
            No need to answer for Israel

            Mind you, you can answer.
            It got harder. Apartments are getting more expensive. But I would like to, on the contrary, here the son would like to buy, but prices are biting.
            Quote: wicked partisan
            Hi spiteful!

            Angry you tongue
            Hi myself laughing hi
            1. evil partisan
              evil partisan 10 January 2016 10: 52 New
              +6
              Quote: atalef
              Hi, ask questions correctly
              Otherwise it will turn out that the deterioration of life in Ukraine and in Monaco - let us lead to one answer - has become worse.

              I got out in general what ... And why am I not surprised? winked
              Quote: atalef
              It got harder.

              So good. repeat
              1. atalef
                atalef 10 January 2016 12: 07 New
                -2
                Quote: wicked partisan
                I got out in general ... And why am I not surprised?

                The older you are, the less often you are surprised

                Quote: wicked partisan
                So good.

                It's good when someone is bad laughing
          2. The comment was deleted.
        6. 33 Watcher
          33 Watcher 10 January 2016 10: 16 New
          +7
          Oh, oh, oh ... Why is it bad in Russia? The whole world loves us, supports us, and helps us, but it's still bad.
          Again, pretend to be an Israeli hose? By the way, what color are the watering hoses in Israel? wink
          1. atalef
            atalef 10 January 2016 10: 32 New
            -4
            Quote: Observer 33
            Oh, oh, oh ... Why is it bad in Russia?


            Did I say that it is bad? Well, here is winter, snow, the new year is real, and not like we have under the palm trees - good.
            Quote: Observer 33
            The whole world loves us, supports us, and helps us, but it's still bad.

            Well, it's up to you to decide whether it's good or bad.
            Do not weave me into this.
            Statistics is certainly not science wink
            Quote: Observer 33
            By the way, what color are the watering hoses in Israel?

            You are strange .
            observer, you say
            1. 33 Watcher
              33 Watcher 10 January 2016 11: 42 New
              +3
              Who am I intertwining? request
              And what's so strange about me? request
              Observer. I say yes
              PS I am swami on you hi
            2. Russian jacket
              Russian jacket 12 January 2016 12: 14 New
              0
              A wonderful New Year ... Arshan, Buryat cuisine, friends, fireworks ... Somehow, all the problems were forgotten for three days ..... Well, isn't it happiness ... drinks
        7. Oleg14774
          Oleg14774 10 January 2016 11: 17 New
          +7
          Quote: atalef
          Was it worth it to bring to that. that Poroshenko even came

          In fact, no one asked us about this. "cookies" were handed out without our consent and this is one of the sides of the war against us, so the question is fundamentally incorrect.
          Quote: atalef
          but why did it get worse in Russia?

          And who said that during the hostilities it always got better!
          Quote: atalef
          oh yes. it's only the beginning.
          Our generation will live under communism - even the Khrushchev said.

          It was under Khrushchev that they began to ruin everything, ebn and hump this final conclusion of the betrayal started with the same crunch, so what? Did they manage to destroy Russia? NOT! Some of the territories have been lost, but Russia withstood, so do not confuse the righteous with the sinful!
        8. svp67
          svp67 10 January 2016 17: 41 New
          +1
          Quote: atalef
          Was it worth it to bring to that. that Poroshenko even came

          The question is not for us, but for Washington?
        9. Siberian
          Siberian 10 January 2016 19: 33 New
          +1
          And what has become worse in Russia and where to see it?
    2. Same lech
      Same lech 10 January 2016 07: 20 New
      28
      Let's see realistically - they hold on for now and, strangely enough, they achieve almost everything


      Ok let's ...

      What has UKRAINE left of its heavy industry? ... and what are the prospects?
      What is left of your livestock breeding and what are the prospects? ... what to do with the products, who will give lifting loans to farmers?
      Is the policy of KIEV independent? ... can KREMLIN negotiate directly not with KIEV, but WASHINGTON ... BAIDEN still lives there.
      Army of UKRAINE smile ... do you really take her seriously when there is no real enemy ... don't tell my sneakers.
      Then, well, UKRAINE imposed sanctions, well, it cut off electricity from Crimea ... what's next ... what's next ... what are the prospects?
      There is only one conclusion, at least for me ... and RUSSIA and UKRAINE in the near future will survive separately from each other, to the delight of WASHINGTON ... this is exactly what the Americans sought with their policy in UKRAINE.
      But the reality is WASHINGTON is located several thousand kilometers from UKRAINE, and RUSSIA is close at hand and historically objectively, UKRAINE will return to the orbit of RUSSIAN influence .... The United States does not have enough strength to keep the whole world in a fist.
      1. atalef
        atalef 10 January 2016 08: 21 New
        -21
        Quote: The same Lech
        What has UKRAINE left of its heavy industry? ... and what are the prospects?

        What does it matter?
        whatever the prospects are - how will this help the Russians?
        Quote: The same Lech
        What is left of your livestock breeding and what are the prospects? ... what to do with the products, who will give lifting loans to farmers?

        what country are you talking about?
        or will it make life easier for Russians?
        Quote: The same Lech
        Is the policy of KIEV independent? ... can KREMLIN negotiate directly not with KIEV, but WASHINGTON ... BAIDEN still lives there.

        What's the difference?
        In a year . what have you achieved?
        I see the only thing. Ukraine takes steps towards Russia that it could not even have thought of a year ago
        Quote: The same Lech
        Army of UKRAINE ... do you really take it seriously when there is no real enemy ... do not make my sneakers laugh.

        I have been hearing these mantras about the REAL ENEMY for a long time (and in relation to all countries and armies - except for the Russian, of course)
        the fact is. that the DPR and LPR have remained stubs and do not climb further, it is true that they have been crying lately. that the Ukrainians are many times superior to them, and if Russia does not help, they will be crushed

        Quote: The same Lech
        There is only one conclusion, at least for me ... and RUSSIA and UKRAINE in the near future will survive separately from each other to the delight of WASHINGTON

        Well, what have you achieved? Here I am talking. whether the game was worth the candle. if a ...
        Quote: The same Lech
        But the reality is WASHINGTON is located several thousand kilometers from UKRAINE, and RUSSIA is close at hand and historically, objectively, UKRAINE will return to the orbit of influence of RUSSIA.

        Yes ? where did you decide?
        Georgia the Baltic states. Moldova --- are you not an example?
        Why will Ukraine return?
        Because Lavrov and the Foreign Ministry will come up with something?
        why did you decide. what is Ukraine. in its economic condition. will definitely fall under Russia?
        After all that was?
        Quote: The same Lech
        .sil the United States is not enough to keep the whole world in a fist.

        And they don't need it. they themselves run to them.
        1. Same lech
          Same lech 10 January 2016 08: 43 New
          +8
          Yes ? where did you decide?
          Georgia the Baltic states. Moldova --- are you not an example?
          Why will Ukraine return?


          OH MY GOD!!!
          Do you even open the history of the RUSSIAN EMPIRE and see.
          Further GEORGIA, UKRAINE, MOLDOVA will not immediately run to us, of course, we need to work on the local elite in the style of the Americans smile .
          Fortunately, they showed how this is done ... it's just a matter of time, of course, if there is political will in the KREMLIN ... or do you think that only Americans know how to arrange color revolutions ... this process will take a long time and preparation for them takes considerable time and requires an infusion of significant finance.
          All small countries objectively try to join the larger ones under the wing through various organizations (NATO, the EU, for example), and for this you just need to create favorable conditions ... there is nothing new here, you have to fight for a place in the sun.
        2. Same lech
          Same lech 10 January 2016 08: 46 New
          +3
          And they don't need it. they themselves run to them.

          Are you laughing
          ... LIBYA, IRAQ, SYRIA, AFGHANISTAN, YUGOSLAVIA ...

          these countries are being helped to quickly flee to the United States through democratic bombing.
          1. atalef
            atalef 10 January 2016 09: 26 New
            -11
            Quote: The same Lech
            And they don't need it. they themselves run to them.

            Are you laughing
            ... LIBYA, IRAQ, SYRIA, AFGHANISTAN, YUGOSLAVIA ...

            these countries are being helped to quickly flee to the United States through democratic bombing.

            And about Yugoslavia - in more detail,
            1. 33 Watcher
              33 Watcher 10 January 2016 10: 26 New
              13
              What are you bringing this song back to? Atalef? Speak directly: I want Russia to cease to exist as a state, and all self-determined Russians have died. Say so. They will understand you. They will not satisfy your desires, but understand, understand.
            2. Travian
              Travian 10 January 2016 20: 11 New
              +2
              but about Libya, Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan in more detail is not necessary?
        3. Kite
          Kite 10 January 2016 09: 44 New
          +9
          You repeated the question several times: "... how will this help the Russians?"
          You will have to reveal a secret - Crimea and Donbass are populated mostly by Russian people.
          You probably know that there is a large proportion of the Jewish population in Poland, perhaps you have heard about the attitude of these "Poles" towards the Ukronationalists. Are you not in solidarity with your fellow tribesmen? And the solidarity of ukronatsi with daesh -
          Quote: atalef
          What does it matter?
          belay
        4. Albert1988
          Albert1988 10 January 2016 13: 24 New
          11
          Quote: atalef
          What does it matter?
          whatever the prospects are - how will this help the Russians?

          Dear Atalef!)))) I sincerely apologize to you - but one thing just comes through in your comments. At all and all the time. Namely, the most typical "emigrant complex" - you already on a subconscious level want to convince yourself (first of all yourself, and only secondly - the interlocutor) that living in Russia is much worse than in Israel (or in any other country) ...
          Of course, I could be wrong, but from the outside everything looks exactly like this ...

          To objectively assess the Russian and Ukrainian realities, alas, you need to live in these countries for at least a year, and preferably 2,
          it's a pity that you can only live in one country at a time ...
          Here is a Ukrainian friend of mine who worked in Russia - he had a salary in terms of hryvnia - 15000-17000 hryvnia! This is with an average Ukrainian salary of about 4500-5000 hryvnia! Naturally, when he came to his home, he did not see any manifestations of the crisis - he didn’t live there for a long time, he didn’t pay for the communal flat, his parents also lived on his “deductions”. But when he stopped working in Russia and returned home, then 3 months were enough for him - he quickly collected his things and hit the road away from the "nezalezhnoy" ...
          At least refer to the history of Russia - Russia has always developed actively precisely in moments of serious crises, and not so much generated by internal problems, but by powerful external pressure! That is, we, alas, need a good kick to boost development. And all these "sanctions", the fall in world oil prices, the pressure of the key figures of our elite from the West is the kick.
          But Ukraine, oddly enough, does not experience any external influence, on the contrary, it has "universal support" (albeit exclusively moral) of the entire "world gangster ..." mmm, forgive, of course, the "world community" and a bunch of free loans, that is, one to one repeats the path of Russia in the early 90s (there is even its own "Chechnya"! Yes, forum users and residents of Donbass forgive me for such a comparison!).

          So, in relation to the current situation with Ukraine, one can paraphrase the "beacon of reason" and the representative of the "unwilling and handshake" of a certain Mr. Bykov:
          "Russia can still get out, but Ukraine is already head over heels ..."
        5. Travian
          Travian 10 January 2016 20: 08 New
          0
          DPR and LPR are not simple "stubs" - they will choke on dill.
          "sheepskin" is still at the stage of dressing and is not yet ready for use.
          Georgia, the Baltic states, Moldova, we are not examples, in Ukraine half of the population is RUSSIAN and the West will have to accept the fact that we will fight for our people, for our lands.
    3. izya top
      izya top 10 January 2016 07: 23 New
      38
      Quote: atalef
      Ukraine did not fall apart

      tongue
    4. subbtin.725
      subbtin.725 10 January 2016 07: 24 New
      +8
      Quote: atalef
      facts are stubborn things.
      Russia while I could not not to ruin Ukraine

      If we wanted to, we would have destroyed it already.
      1. atalef
        atalef 10 January 2016 08: 22 New
        -7
        Quote: subbtin.725
        Quote: atalef
        facts are stubborn things.
        Russia while I could not not to ruin Ukraine

        If we wanted to, we would have destroyed it already.

        but do not want? Then why the heck was it?
        1. svp67
          svp67 10 January 2016 08: 30 New
          +7
          Quote: atalef
          Then why the heck was it?

          Address this question to the US State Department or directly to Biden? What did they want more? Economic benefits or problems for the EU and Russia, or two in one?
          1. atalef
            atalef 10 January 2016 08: 38 New
            -9
            Quote: svp67
            Address this question to the US State Department or directly to Biden?

            Yes, they have received everything today. what they wanted . I'm talking about Russia.
            Quote: svp67
            Economic benefits or problems for the EU and Russia, or two in one?

            I do not know . answer yourself
            1. svp67
              svp67 10 January 2016 08: 54 New
              +4
              Quote: atalef
              Yes, they have received everything today. what they wanted

              But no - they did not receive it. And they tell me that they won't get it. Something tells me that they will soon have problems at home and they simply won't care about Ukraine.
              Quote: atalef
              I'm talking about Russia.

              Remind in the Crimea whose flags are flying? What surname is sitting in the Syrian presidential chair? I'm not even talking about the presidential chair in Russia ... So, far from everything that they wanted to get, they got ...
              Quote: atalef
              I do not know . answer yourself

              I received an answer to this question for a long time.
        2. guzik007
          guzik007 10 January 2016 09: 22 New
          +6
          but do not want? Then why the heck was it?
          -------------------------------------------------- -
          Alexander, you have an extremely strange view of facts. According to your .Russia it was imperative to destroy Ukrainu.Then it logically follows that the Maidan was started by Russia. Well, this is. Sorry on what gate does not climb, agree?
          1. German Titov
            German Titov 10 January 2016 18: 10 New
            +5
            Russia-Ukraine is generally not interested in ruining it. It is simply inconvenient to have "inadequate neighbors" under the border (which, in principle, it was). Ukraine is falling apart from Kiev. Moreover, they are falling apart with such a cosmic speed that it is unbearable to count "cosmokilometers". In our country, terrorists continue to restore roads and build houses. "Separa" - in one word. They would be all for creation ... Well, remove this flag from the "avatar". In Respected Locations, it is used instead of a rug. Send a "photo to the studio"? Under this flag, the state killed my friends (who never held weapons). And in Donetsk, only masochists can walk with such a flag.
        3. 33 Watcher
          33 Watcher 10 January 2016 10: 30 New
          +6
          What happened? This is Russia, perhaps 5 lards for the Maidan allocated? Everything suited us as it was. They were just simply warned that if they received trade privileges with the EU, they would lose their privileges with us. What are the Russians to blame again? What are you talking about?
        4. Travian
          Travian 10 January 2016 20: 16 New
          0
          to take Ukraine as a whole, or at least for the most part.
    5. Odysseus
      Odysseus 10 January 2016 07: 34 New
      +8
      Quote: atalef
      Russia has not yet been able not to ruin Ukraine, not to throw Poroshenko.

      Unfortunately, she didn't even start trying.
      1. The black
        The black 10 January 2016 08: 13 New
        +9
        Yes, indeed. Although it would be worthwhile to behave much tougher in relation to the Kiev regime. All economic ties, including all skidis and goodwill, should be terminated as long as the junta sits in Kiev. IN ONE KIND WORD " Al Capone (and he's right)
        1. atalef
          atalef 10 January 2016 08: 29 New
          -5
          Quote: Black
          but, indeed. Although it would be worthwhile to behave much tougher in relation to the Kiev regime. All economic ties, including all skidis and goodwill, should be terminated as long as the junta is in Kiev

          Can not .
          it really is not clear.
          do you think Russia is selling gas to Ukraine out of the kindness of its soul. agreeing to all Ukrainian conditions?
          Quote: Black
          As they say, "WITH THE HELP OF A KIND WORD AND A PISTOL, YOU WILL GET MUCH MORE THAN ONE KIND WORD" Al Capone (and he is right)

          Right and what does it have to do in Ukraine?
          1. 33 Watcher
            33 Watcher 10 January 2016 12: 15 New
            +3
            I thought after the words, they cannot, some explanations, justifications will follow ... No ..? recourse
      2. atalef
        atalef 10 January 2016 08: 23 New
        -6
        Quote: Odyssey
        Quote: atalef
        Russia has not yet been able not to ruin Ukraine, not to throw Poroshenko.

        Unfortunately, she didn't even start trying.

        Well then, excuse the masochism of some sort, but what were the goals?
        Just don’t talk. what . get sanctioned. for . to start developing import substitution
        1. svp67
          svp67 10 January 2016 08: 28 New
          +8
          Quote: atalef
          and what were the goals?

          This is our payback for the collapse of the USSR and the fact that in the 90s "fell" under the United States. With Ukraine, they caught us great. And we frankly missed this "Maidan", so we had to improvise. Not only US intelligence and its analysts are catching the crows. If they had prepared, then Zakharchenko and Plotnitsky would have appeared much earlier and would not have had to Strelkov and he often "shines" with him.
          Your Mossad has been conducting such operations for a long time and quite successfully.
          1. atalef
            atalef 10 January 2016 08: 42 New
            -12
            Quote: svp67
            This is our payback for the collapse of the USSR

            Stop mantling about the USSR. 25 years have passed. during this period, not a few countries collapsed and at the same time got out.
            Having survived no less than the USSR
            Take Yugoslavia. Czechoslovakia. Albania.
            Quote: svp67
            With Ukraine, they caught us great.

            caught themselves and not only with Ukraine. just with Ukraine - it's outrageous.
            before that there were the Baltics. Georgia. moldavia
            Quote: svp67
            ... If they had prepared, then Zakharchenko and Plotnitsky would have appeared much earlier and would not have had to Strelkov and he often "shines" with him.

            Well, don't be ridiculous.
            Before them there were a dozen others. Do you think shooters and Co. just like that, having gathered in the kitchen, decided to rush to Slavyansk? And the North Wind and Voentorg are a civil movement?

            Quote: svp67
            Your Mossad has been conducting such operations for a long time and quite successfully.

            Where?
            1. svp67
              svp67 10 January 2016 08: 58 New
              +4
              Quote: atalef
              caught themselves and not only with Ukraine. just with Ukraine - it's outrageous. Before that there were the Baltic states. Georgia. moldavia

              We should admit
              Quote: atalef
              Before them there were a dozen others. Do you think shooters and Co. just like that, having gathered in the kitchen, decided to rush to Slavyansk? And the North Wind and Voentorg are a civil movement?

              I tell you about Thomas, you tell me about Yarema. I'm talking about the Leader of the movement, the one who was supposed to become the face of the "anti-Maidan" ...
              Quote: atalef
              Where?

              Well, look at the country under the cypress trees - it's called Lebanon.
            2. Pirogov
              Pirogov 10 January 2016 12: 18 New
              +8
              Atalef, your hatred for the Slavs will return to you personally a hundredfold, ................
              1. atalef
                atalef 10 January 2016 12: 23 New
                -2
                Quote: Pirogov
                Atalef, your hatred for the Slavs will return to you personally a hundredfold, ................

                hatred? That someone fell from the oak tree? I have a Ukrainian wife. laughing
                By the way, Slavs, it is written with a small letter, otherwise someone else will think that this is the name of some kind of your friend Kovrizhkin.
                1. family
                  family tree 10 January 2016 14: 46 New
                  0
                  Atalef your hatred for the Slavs

                  Ooh, Sanya, it turns out you hate the Slavs too wassat
                  Hi! drinks With the past you. I wanted to misbehave on the site in the New Year, but I had to go to Arkhangelsk. It's okay, for the old New Year we will win back, especially since tomorrow half of the vacation begins, you look and show how to break the outrage laughing drinks
              2. Militia
                Militia 11 January 2016 01: 07 New
                -1
                Albert1988 RU Yesterday, 13:24 ↑

                Quote: atalef
                What does it matter?
                whatever the prospects are - how will this help the Russians?

                Dear Atalef!)))) I sincerely apologize to you - but one thing just comes through in your comments. At all and all the time. Namely typical "emigrant complex" - you already on a subconscious level want to convince yourself (first of all yourself, and only secondly - the interlocutor) that living in Russia is much worse than in Israel (or in any other country).


                This is not called hatred. Forum member Albert1988 very accurately expressed this defect. (in font)
            3. 33 Watcher
              33 Watcher 10 January 2016 12: 22 New
              +3
              Stop mantling about the USSR. 25 years have passed. during this period, not a few countries collapsed and at the same time got out.
              Having survived no less than the USSR
              Take Yugoslavia. Czechoslovakia. Albania.
              You just noticed this. But the collapse of the Union does not suit some. They want the collapse of Russia, they even indicated a figure, from 5 to 8 states, and the deadlines were set.
              But this does not suit us. We pay for this, for what we resist, and we will resist.
          2. German Titov
            German Titov 10 January 2016 18: 26 New
            +2
            This "Maidan" was really "missed". If Yanek had such "beytsa" as Yaytsenyukh, he would have washed this scum from the square back in November 2013, and Donbass "would not wash with blood." Now half of the "Donetsk" in camouflage and looking at the West. Not for the purpose of "putting on lace panties", but "with an eye".
        2. Sid.74
          10 January 2016 08: 29 New
          +6
          Quote: atalef
          Just don’t talk. what . get sanctioned. for . to start developing import substitution

          We're not looking for easy ways... laughing

          Quote: svp67
          They caught us cool with Ukraine. And we frankly missed this “Maidan”, so we had to improvise.

          The Russian people usually do not have an action plan ... He is terrible with his improvisation! yes
          1. The black
            The black 10 January 2016 08: 40 New
            +8
            Exactly! Our most terrible weapon is ingenuity! ..... we even drove Hitler to suicide. laughing
          2. atalef
            atalef 10 January 2016 08: 43 New
            -8
            Quote: Sid.74
            We're not looking for easy ways..

            Who would doubt that
            Quote: Sid.74
            The Russian people usually do not have an action plan ... He is terrible with his improvisation!

            I would rather hear the strategy and results.
            1. Sid.74
              10 January 2016 08: 55 New
              +6
              Quote: atalef
              I would rather hear the strategy and results.

              Well, Putin will not be putting all the cards on the table now ... the Americans are just waiting for our mistakes to stir up his economy, as far as Ukraine is concerned, there are several options.
              The slow end ... by boiling in your own juice.
              A faster end ... by boiling nationalist dill in its own boilers.
              Well, a quick end with a very not quick tidying up even of the security forces ... an external attack on the Ukrainian Armed Forces when NATO forces or Americans enter Ukraine.
              Everything else is a matter of time and a certain moment. Americans cannot get from the sea, because Crimea is ours, and everything is shot at by the caliber in the Netherlands itself. Everything else is trifles.
            2. 33 Watcher
              33 Watcher 10 January 2016 10: 38 New
              +5
              From whom? I have nothing to do with the government. Is there any ruling here? Answer the man ... You see how he is suffering ...
            3. EvgNik
              EvgNik 10 January 2016 10: 57 New
              +6
              Quote: atalef
              I would rather hear the strategy and results.

              Well right now. So we will give away Putin's secret plan. Although we know.
          3. svp67
            svp67 10 January 2016 09: 08 New
            +3
            Quote: Sid.74
            The Russian people usually do not have an action plan ... He is terrible with his improvisation!

            The people can and yes, but the state, especially the relevant structures and people responsible for this area are simply OBLIGED to have appropriate plans. And if they were not there or they were not effective, then someone must answer for this ...
            1. Sid.74
              10 January 2016 09: 19 New
              +2
              Quote: svp67
              And if they were not or they were not effective

              Putin said, at a meeting with Erdogan, at that time as a partner, that the Maidan was supposed to happen before the next presidential election in Ukraine. So they knew, but the Americans were terribly hasty and forced a coup by means of Natsik from Galicia, which is why there was a bloody bath on the Maidan, because bloody color revolution has not yet happened. Indeed in Europe for sure.
        3. Odysseus
          Odysseus 10 January 2016 09: 46 New
          +2
          Quote: atalef
          Well then, excuse the masochism of some sort, but what were the goals?

          Across Ukraine before the Maidan, no.
          Since 1991, the key goal of the Russian authorities has been to become a junior partner of the West and legalize their capital received from the dereban of the former public property there.
          The key problem is that the West does not agree to this, but prefers to establish its control over the former Soviet zone of influence.
          Hence, the conflicts that are increasing in intensity throughout the former USSR. And the half-hearted response of the Russian authorities to the policy of the West is according to the principle "to acquire capital and observe innocence."
          Control over Ukraine, in principle, was lost after the first Maidan (2004). The second Maidan had just completed this process. Russia's goals after the Maidan-
          1) Take the Crimea, for military-strategic reasons.
          2) Prevent Ukraine from joining NATO
          3) Federalize Ukraine while maintaining influence in the East of the country.
          In the rest, Ukraine is being surrendered to the West, similar to Georgia, which was surrendered while maintaining its influence in Abkhazia and South Ossetia.
          The main problem is the plan is unrealistic because the West completely disagrees with it. And it demands complete surrender on the "Ukrainian issue."
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. atalef
            atalef 10 January 2016 12: 02 New
            -4
            Quote: Odyssey
            Russia's goals after Maidan-1) To take Crimea for military-strategic reasons. 2) To prevent Ukraine from joining NATO

            Taking Crimea (and organizing a mess in Donbass) - to prevent Ukraine from joining NATO - does anyone really think?
            Yes, after that, any country will rush anywhere, away from such a neighbor - recall the guarantor of its territorial integrity.

            Quote: Odyssey
            Federalize Ukraine while maintaining influence in the East of the country.

            So how ?
            Quote: Odyssey
            In the rest, Ukraine is being surrendered to the West, similar to Georgia, which was surrendered while maintaining its influence in Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

            a strange approach, yes, Russia has more friendship with the NATO countries than it is with Ukraine now, and who will generally keep Ukraine from joining the bloc?
            How do you imagine that?
            You can't keep anyone by force - it's too late. I had to go to the end or not start
            1. 33 Watcher
              33 Watcher 10 January 2016 12: 38 New
              +5
              Taking Crimea (and organizing a mess in Donbass) - to prevent Ukraine from joining NATO - does anyone really think?
              Yes, after that, any country will rush anywhere, away from such a neighbor - recall the guarantor of its territorial integrity.

              And you dear as you wanted? Can the Rostov region be provided to them for torchlight processions? And what will run, so no one, does not hold, London, Paris are waiting. Well, at least they pretend to be waiting. And since the guys taught the scraps of their army to zig and sent them to the east, let them be nice, don't whine, honestly they collect intestines from the burning land. No one forced this cattle to be rude. That is life. Gotta pay. Climbed into the fight, get on the sniff.
              And by the way, why don't you run away from bad neighbors?
              1. atalef
                atalef 10 January 2016 12: 43 New
                -3
                Quote: Observer 33
                And you dear as you wanted? Can the Rostov region be provided to them for torchlight processions?

                Communication? I see no logic.
                Quote: Observer 33
                And by the way, why don't you run away from bad neighbors?

                You probably did not quite understand my words correctly - they will run
                They will flee to the EU, and not in the sense that the population will rush to the west.
                Although they run wild - out of the Donbass - a million faded away. and in fact, in theory, they should have protected - well, from torchlight processions, I mean.
                Quote: Observer 33
                There were no goals

                This is bad, you need to set goals and it is desirable to achieve them - otherwise why the heck?
                1. 33 Watcher
                  33 Watcher 10 January 2016 14: 14 New
                  +3
                  It is you, you misunderstood me. The EU will run, but in parts. Who will release them entirely under the NATO wing ..? People, because of their inadequacy, did not foresee this, the non-aligned status was canceled, they declared us enemies. Well, okay, okay. No one will fight the poor. The conditions are created, created by ourselves, slurp. One ATO is not enough to turn on the brains? Apparently not enough ... They wanted to join the EU, but they would become a buffer zone, in half, this is their choice, and only the Ukrainians themselves doubted such an outcome. Well, they apparently once again thought that they live in a fairy tale, outside, or above the rest of the world.
                  And about yours: I see no logic. Surprised right, you are kind of a man of logic, not devoid.
                  Was it me that shouted "Moskolyak to Gilyak" and "To Muscovy"? Well? What is the logic behind it?
                  I agree, a bad option, but the best of the bad. And good there, it does not shine. And not to anyone.
                  1. atalef
                    atalef 10 January 2016 14: 32 New
                    -3
                    Quote: Observer 33
                    People, due to their inadequacy, did not foresee this, the non-aligned status was canceled, they declared us enemies


                    No, after the Crimea was torn away from them, they made a mess in the Donbass, declared fascists, etc. --- of course they will come running with shouts and bouquets of flowers --- take something else from us.
                    We will continue to be non-aligned, so that whoever wants to, would pinch us even more.
                    See things real.
                    Quote: Observer 33
                    They wanted to be in the EU, but they will become a buffer zone, in half, this is their choice

                    This is not their choice, this is that state. which they have achieved. just do not say that a year ago Russia agreed with this.
                    Quote: Observer 33
                    Was it me that shouted "Moskolyak to Gilyak" and "To Muscovy"? Well? What is the logic behind it?

                    Don't turn into the fruit of propaganda, some shouted yak, others - I'll take Kiev in a month.
                    Separate the wheat from the chaff
                    Quote: Observer 33
                    Well? What is the logic behind it?

                    There is only one logic that suggests itself.
                    With Ukraine it was necessary to decide differently, who was closer to the Russians in general than Ukraine?
                    Everything was simple ...
                    Spreading fingers and show-off.
                    You need to talk gently. maybe a couple of boxes of cookies should have gone broke?
                    Approach tasks creatively, not type
                    we are Russia - love us only for what we are.
                    Does not work. , but as a result, loss.
                  2. 33 Watcher
                    33 Watcher 10 January 2016 16: 52 New
                    +3
                    This is not their choice, this is that state. which they have achieved. just do not say that a year ago Russia agreed with this.
                    What? Is it possible to achieve something different by such methods of power change and such a foreign policy? Choice! Whether conscious or not, the problems of those who made it.

                    Don't turn into the fruit of propaganda, some shouted yak, others - I'll take Kiev in a month.
                    Oh, propaganda ... There was no such thing ... Well, it was more accurate, well, they are children ... Oh, and in the Rada, aren't the punitive battalion commanders? More propaganda? A room min. what does it carry? Also propaganda? And people did not die, and there was no war, all propaganda. And we live behind the Iron Curtain, we are all deceived.

                    You need to talk gently. maybe a couple of boxes of cookies should have gone broke?
                    Well, about the cookies, this is not for me. I would be gentle. I would wipe the nozzles, feed them, put them to bed ... And then I would remember that the child likes to repeat the word "nezalezhnost" and would click the butt between his eyes. Or the hooves will be thrown away, or the brains will fall into place. Both options are good for me, but I am far from being a diplomat.

                    With Ukraine it was necessary to decide differently, who was closer to the Russians in general than Ukraine?
                    Anyone who did not spit at me, did not threaten me, did not steal from me, did not betray me, did not betray me. For me there is nothing and no one close. And I don't care about their fate at all. If a radical decision is required, then I do not mind.
                    PS And honestly, minus, not me. As an interlocutor, you are very interesting to me, and as an opponent I deeply respect hi
                  3. Albert1988
                    Albert1988 10 January 2016 20: 12 New
                    +8
                    Quote: atalef
                    No, after the Crimea was torn away from them, they made a mess in the Donbass, declared fascists, etc. --- of course they will come running with shouts and bouquets of flowers --- take something else from us.

                    Dear Atalef, you again completely forget that it was the Ukrainians who first organized the Maidan under the anti-Russian slogans - "hto do not skache, that mo..cal!" and "Moscow ... to the gilyak!", overthrew the "pro-Russian tyrant" Yanukovych (although he was as "pro-Russian" as Gaddafi was "pro-European").
                    And note - no Crimea even smelled then! In Donbass, apart from expressing rejection of what is happening by individual citizens, everything was calm!
                    Crimea and, as you put it - "a mess in Donbass" - this is the REACTION of Russia to the emergence at its borders specifically anti-Russian regime! If in doubt, remember what law they adopted, among others, as soon as the Yanyka dumped, if you don't remember, I will remind you - the abolition of the special status of the Russian language! That is, they had no other business, except to deprive the Russian language of the status of the state language, albeit in a number of regions!
                    And who was there on the Maidan in the stands spoke? Ira Farion, Dmytro Yarosh, and what rhetoric did they use there? Let me remind you - all with the same "gilyaka" for the same "mos ... yak" ...
                    And after all this, Russia should have patted Ukraine on the head? If you think so, then you definitely live in some other reality, forgive me ...

                    And then - no one has yet canceled big politics and everything attached to it, including spheres of influence and spheres of vital interests and security. The Maidan organized by the Americans in Ukraine is a direct invasion of the zone of vital Russian interests and a direct blow to our national security, so Russia simply had to react and react harshly. It's time to take off the rose-colored glasses, so characteristic of the Soviet "Sakharov" intelligentsia, and understand that we do not live in the world of "reasonable people", but ruthless predators - that is, either you or you ... And all this "civilizational choice" of Ukraine and " European values ​​"(which, by the way, were strenuously imposed) - just blah-blah-blah to cover up the very big policy pursued by the very same predators, and Ukraine voluntarily took on the role of herbivore ...
            2. The comment was deleted.
          3. Travian
            Travian 10 January 2016 20: 50 New
            +3
            simply returning part of the territories that belonged to the Russian Empire
      3. 33 Watcher
        33 Watcher 10 January 2016 10: 34 New
        +5
        Why are you there? Are you sober at all? There were no goals. This is not our idea, we did not do it. We were presented with a fact. I agree, clicked. Now, apparently, they cannot decide what to do about it.
  3. Old Schweik
    Old Schweik 10 January 2016 07: 55 New
    +5
    Do you think the handouts will last forever? Shota, I doubt it! what
  4. Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 10 January 2016 07: 57 New
    +3
    The fate of the Northwest is more vague.
    everything is vague there, in principle, by definition, a priori ... how can I say ...? To the peasants all at once, hello! hi
    1. evil partisan
      evil partisan 10 January 2016 11: 06 New
      +2
      Quote: Andrew Y.
      everything is vague there, in principle, by definition, a priori ...

      Arpiori ?? belay Ish, what a clever guy he found! I haven't memorized the periodic table yet request, but still there: apeori ...
      Hello smart guy! drinks
      1. family
        family tree 10 January 2016 11: 23 New
        +4
        Quote: wicked partisan
        I haven't learned the periodic table yet request

        This one, or what? Hello drinks
        1. evil partisan
          evil partisan 10 January 2016 11: 48 New
          +1
          Quote: perepilka
          Is this something?

          Ага. yes
          Hello energy chemist! drinks
  5. Truth
    Truth 10 January 2016 08: 20 New
    +4
    Quote: atalef
    Economy - how else? It was bad, it got worse and this is logical. There is nothing to improve with.
    By the way, in Russia with this case (in the face of the economy, not much better, and after all, Poroshenko does not seem to be in power)

    Original ...
    Even if there was no national flag near your nickname, I still would have guessed that this is written from the tribe of the persecuted ...
    Somehow between the lines, unobtrusively, spit at Tsar Vladimir ...
    When it comes to you and you realize that pouring Vovka with poop, you yourself are driving his rating into the ceiling.
    We Russians have a different mentality:
    - Praised from the West - a traitor.
    - slop pours from there - your own into the board.
    1. atalef
      atalef 10 January 2016 08: 34 New
      -5
      Quote: Truth
      When it comes to you and you realize that pouring Vovka with poop, you yourself are driving his rating into the ceiling.

      Yes to me. frankly, absolutely vseravno on Putin's rating. in my life this is in no way reflected.
      I’m trying to make sense of the facts. not slogans like - If you don't like it in the West. then we are doing everything right !!!
      I think . that the whole policy with regard to Ukraine was not right from the beginning and that Yanek needed to be restrained. and not let him plunder everything and everyone.
      Duckle. said A - it was necessary to speak B.
      We started from the Crimea. it was necessary or finished. or go to the end and take everything to Odessa.
      and so ..
      I don’t know what to call all this hemorrhoids.
      1. Truth
        Truth 10 January 2016 08: 41 New
        +4
        Quote: atalef
        I don’t know what to call all this hemorrhoids.

        There is a name for this crap - the foreign policy of the United States of America.
        Their shoals are raked on all continents.

        ps I didn't give you any minuses and didn't touch the rating.
      2. 33 Watcher
        33 Watcher 10 January 2016 10: 47 New
        +7
        So maybe it should have been, or maybe not. Or maybe they would have fought all NATO right now to Odessa ... Maybe it can't. What are you all for? Are Russians havnarod? So I know this position. They reported ... Why don't you like it? You are far away. You are in order with the economy. The trouble with the Arabs, well, figs with them. Here, then what? Come gloat? Or do you give advice? So you need to call the Kremlin.
        1. atalef
          atalef 10 January 2016 12: 57 New
          -2
          Quote: Observer 33
          Here, then what? Come gloat? Or do you give advice? So you need to call the Kremlin.

          My opinion about Ukraine has long been known.
          I'm not talking about how it came to this in general, and there is a lot of Russia's fault. How a brotherly people turned into enemies.
          I'm talking about what if they started. then it was necessary to go to the end.
          And so?
          Quote: Observer 33
          What are you all for? Are Russians havnarod?

          Russians? A great people, with a great history and great potential.
          The problem is in the inferiority complex, you always believe in the king, but you have to believe in yourself, do not wait for mercy from nature - then everything will work out.
          Quote: Observer 33
          So you need to call the Kremlin.


          To me ? What for ?
          I say it again, I believe that everything that happened to Ukraine is a huge mistake and a miscalculation of the Russian Foreign Ministry, Foreign Intelligence Service and GDP personally, and this will come back to haunt for many decades to come.
          1. 33 Watcher
            33 Watcher 10 January 2016 14: 47 New
            +3
            Russians? A great people, with a great history and great potential.
            The problem is in the inferiority complex, you always believe in the king, but you have to believe in yourself, do not wait for mercy from nature - then everything will work out.
            What does all this have to do with Ukraine? Politics in general?
            What happens?
            I have long dreamed of a big aquarium. Tomorrow I'll go to work, get vacation pay and go to order aqua for myself. And I will buy an external filter for one. And all this without hope for the king and any complexes there. If you are talking about this, then yes, everything will work out. hi
            And if not, then I don't know what ..? request
      3. Albert1988
        Albert1988 10 January 2016 20: 16 New
        0
        Quote: atalef
        Duckle. said A - it was necessary to speak B.
        We started from the Crimea. it was necessary or finished. or go to the end and take everything to Odessa.

        And the question is - do we need it? Is it "further to Odessa"? Considering that people were burned there, but what are they? Did you stand nearby? Yes, there is half of the population of Maidanutai, so if we took it, we would only get problems.
        But now they will sit there, gorge themselves on this "eurointegration", maybe Maidanism is out of their brains and wears out a little, so it will then be possible to decide something.
    2. ML-334
      ML-334 10 January 2016 09: 17 New
      +3
      Actually, we judge by deeds, that is, we turn on the mind and not the brain.
  6. saber
    saber 10 January 2016 08: 28 New
    +6
    Here lies the homeless Vasya. feet and palms are black, frostbitten, but in place, they did not fall off! I entered with a temperature of 40, and now 35! even antipyretic pricks stopped! and what breathes every other time is Ivan Ivanitch with more than a few weights in the next ward, as he climbs the stairs, he also breathes heavily!
    The fact that Ukraine did not pay the achievement debt? On TV for the last two weeks, Santa Claus and Snow Maiden, as it should be. Well, how did the sanctions and the shutdown of Crimea help UKrane? Continuing the analogy, the homeless Vasya also shits for himself, which causes the discontent of the nurse, and the entire ward ...
  7. valokordin
    valokordin 10 January 2016 08: 37 New
    +7
    Quote: atalef
    At the same time, it suffered losses in the form of sanctions, etc. not less than Ukraine.
    Was the game worth the candle?

    Do you think that Russia should have surrendered everyone? Or, for the sake of sanctions, keep silent when the Nazis came to power, like before World War II, educated and sponsored by the United States. But what is strange, besides the United States, sponsored and led the Nazis after the elections, Valtsman, Kalomoisky, Yatsenyuk, representatives of God's chosen nation, or are you closer to Bandera than Soviet soldiers? Something Israel did not take the side of Russia and in particular Solovyov, with the exception of a few individual citizens. I don’t know the opinion of the rest of the citizens of Israel. Let's hope for the best, no matter how difficult it is for us. Our people for the most part are not hucksters (with the exception of members of the government minus the security forces) but patriots, and although the president approves of the government, he is still a patriot.
    1. atalef
      atalef 10 January 2016 13: 05 New
      -5
      Quote: valokordin
      Do you think that Russia should have surrendered everyone?

      I do not think anything, I think that Russia should not have brought this up to this point.
      How did it happen that the United States suddenly turned out to be more influential in Ukraine than Russia

      Quote: valokordin
      Or, for the sake of sanctions, keep silent when the Nazis came to power, as before World War II,

      Come on, it's good nonsense to write about the Nazis, even in the Russian media they stopped using this word. My mother-in-law in Kiev is Russian, I have been to Ukraine 2 times last year.
      Well, I didn't see that the Russians were oppressed and they ran after them with axes.
      Quote: valokordin
      But here's what is strange, in addition to the United States, they sponsored and led the Nazis after the elections Valtsman, Kalomoisky, Yatsenyuk, representatives of God's chosen nation

      Well, the fact that you turn anyone into a Jew - I'm not surprised.
      Strangely different. why didn't Ivanov come. Petrov and Sidorenko?
      Quote: valokordin
      Something Israel did not take the side of Russia

      Because we do not believe in fairy tales, neither yours nor Ukrainian ones.
      We are neutral - this is your Slavic showdown - you and understand.
      How are we here?
      Quote: valokordin
      Our people for the most part are not hucksters (except for members of the government minus the security forces)

      And the Foreign Ministry? wink
      Quote: valokordin
      and although the president approves of the government, he is still a patriot.

      Gut, Waldemar, Gut laughing
      1. 33 Watcher
        33 Watcher 10 January 2016 15: 00 New
        +7
        Here I read, and I think. And, don't you take on a lot, trying on the role of an orbiter?
        Why is the United States more influential in BW than Israel? Maybe it's about the bucks and the number of barrels? And about neutrality ... Fresh imparting ... We are in neutrality, well, for now, anyway. The rest have been going on a hike for a long time, even Australia and that, do not sit. And we are in neutrality, we are waiting ... But it would be better if they, and you too, did not go on this very campaign.
        1. atalef
          atalef 10 January 2016 15: 05 New
          -4
          Quote: Observer 33
          Here I read, and I think. And, don't you take on a lot, trying on the role of an orbiter?

          Why

          Quote: Observer 33
          Why is the United States more influential in BW than Israel?

          They have more pussy
          Quote: Observer 33
          Maybe it's about the bucks and the number of barrels?

          And this is the same
          Quote: Observer 33
          We are in neutrality, well, for now, anyway. The rest have been going on a hike for a long time, even Australia and that, do not sit.


          they generally have winter - in summer
          Quote: Observer 33
          And we are in neutrality, we are waiting ...


          we do not wait, we do not care
      2. Albert1988
        Albert1988 10 January 2016 20: 31 New
        +2
        Quote: atalef
        I do not think anything, I think that Russia should not have brought this up to this point.
        How did it happen that the United States suddenly turned out to be more influential in Ukraine than Russia

        This, as they say, is a good question, it is clear that in the 90s and the very beginning of the 2000s the whole country was in a state not very different from the state of Boris Nikolaevich's liver, plus it had a bloody ulcer in the face of the conflict in the Caucasus and not until Ukraine It was. Which, by the way, is very characteristic - the Ukronazis, whom you do not see in Ukraine, actively went there and fought there on the side of the terrorists, and then these same people go to the "democratic" Maidan, which was blessed by the United States, a very interesting picture comes out)))) )
        The only question remains, what has Russia been doing over the past 10 years, when it was no longer so "lying"?
        And the answer, I think, is very impartial - I tried to integrate everything into the Western system, but only in 2008 received a clear sign that they would not be allowed to integrate, even as a junior partner, and that the problem, apparently, is not in the state system or ideology, but in Russia itself, so they began to act, but Ukraine and, most importantly, the majority of Ukrainians missed, alas, only Crimea and partly Donbass remained ...
  8. Minstrel
    Minstrel 10 January 2016 08: 47 New
    11
    Quote: atalef
    Was the game worth the candle?

    Izya comes home and says:
    - Sarochka, I still have two news - good and bad. Good - I got permission, bought tickets and we move to live in our historical homeland.
    - A bad one?
    - On tickets, I spent as much as $ 500 out of the 200 thousand we have. So now I'm thinking - was the game worth the candle ... wink

    This I mean that you do not judge the Russian people from your bell tower. Not everything in this world can be measured in money.
  9. V.ic
    V.ic 10 January 2016 08: 51 New
    +3
    Quote: atalef
    Was the game worth the candle?

    Your "herzen" is nicer / kosher / killing and burning Russian-speaking people like in Odessa? Murders in Mariupol? The shootings of Donetsk?
  10. a.hamster55
    a.hamster55 10 January 2016 09: 12 New
    +6
    Of course the sheepskin came in handy! Having got rid of Russian oppression, Ukrainian scientists managed to decipher the DNA! It turns out that DNA stands for - "Deoxyribonucleic Acid" laughing
  11. 33 Watcher
    33 Watcher 10 January 2016 10: 12 New
    +1
    This question about dressing, this is generally not the window ... This is not our project (a mess). We were presented with a fact. They have a Maidan and you are now enemies.
  12. Veltmajster
    Veltmajster 10 January 2016 10: 38 New
    +4
    I don’t know, of course, but how to address these facts? Is the glass half full or half empty? Or just half a glass? Ukraine has not collapsed? And what, in your understanding, “collapsed"? On the principalities with their own borders? So it's not the Middle Ages in the yard, everything is too tied up: energetically, logistically, economically. Do you want to clearly understand? a bathroom, a hallway. Immediately feel. The army has improved? Well, in a sense, yes. And what about the exhaust? 3% of its territory, this army cannot recapture for the second year. There is also a crisis in Russia? And how can it not be if half the country? Of this half, more than half do not work, not because there is no work, but because they simply do not want to work. Of course, now prices have risen and maternal pensions or child benefits, these people are not enough. And sanctions against entire sectors of the Russian economy Gas at a discount to Ukraine? Right. Gas production is a continuous process, then it was necessary to install gas storage facilities ahead of time or to conduct pipelines to other consumers. You can't foresee everything. Are they pulling back the debt? for Russia, it is uncritical and the interest drips on it. And about the sheepskin-dressing ... Russia did not even think about touching it, this sheepskin. I had to. Forced. Thanks to the "kind and caring west", the bearer of humanism and human values.
  13. varov14
    varov14 10 January 2016 13: 06 New
    +2
    It's just that we are moving in the same direction, and the authorities clearly, tirelessly, and most importantly, imperceptibly fulfill this directive. It's just that Ukrainian Jews have less ambition than ours, They were given a place in the dressing room and they agreed, give us a common steam room, this is from the plow, what for ?. But ours have syas and you can wave them. They will only be allowed into the common steam room, they will immediately merge.
  14. Leninsk
    Leninsk 10 January 2016 15: 16 New
    +1
    Where are YOU so smart from))) I'll try to guess))) Your "facts" = TV and individual inferences, You have to be wiser, more cunning))) factor "TIME", it must be taken into account ...
  15. andrewkor
    andrewkor 10 January 2016 21: 32 New
    +2
    first, return the Arab lands that you grabbed since 1948 and made yourself a lot of problems, and only then teach others!
  16. Sailor
    Sailor 10 January 2016 21: 43 New
    +3
    Sadly, but all your arguments are correct, with one amendment, Ukraine is supported by the rich west, and we have Syria, Ukraine and the sanctions imposed by the same west. Here we maneuver between bad and piz..ts!
  17. 72jora72
    72jora72 11 January 2016 07: 06 New
    +1
    1.Ukraine has not collapsed
    ... Dear, are you sure of this? I will not talk about Donbass or Crimea, everything is clear here anyway, but other regions are rapidly moving away from Kiev. Almost all areas are divided between oligarchs, for whom the authorities in Kiev give nothing but "hemorrhoids". But in general, yes, the country is "whole and indestructible" as never before
    3.Also, they impose sanctions, from a ban on flights to food.
    .And about the Ukrainian "sanctions" is not necessary, do not laugh.
    5 Disconnect Crimea with impunity
    Let's not make rash statements, but just wait a bit .......
  • Old Schweik
    Old Schweik 10 January 2016 07: 51 New
    +5
    Well, and this ... apparently his dad. winked
  • svp67
    svp67 10 January 2016 09: 05 New
    +4
    Quote: Sid.74
    Rambo, the beginning!

    Ukraine - BEGINNING
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Arbogast
      Arbogast 10 January 2016 09: 47 New
      0
      Quote: svp67
      Ukraine - BEGINNING
      Soon to be continued ..
      Stepan Demura - The Ukrainians hit, now they will make people ..
  • Sid.74
    10 January 2016 07: 13 New
    +5
    Quote: The same Lech
    Colonel Kononov, deputy commander of the 100th brigade of the Republican Guard, died from a sniper bullet

    I went to the news-front, there is nothing like this in the bulletins, and other sites that published this news do not inspire confidence.
    1. Sid.74
      10 January 2016 07: 28 New
      13
      Quote: atalef
      Russia has not yet been able not to ruin Ukraine, not to throw Poroshenko.
      At the same time, it suffered losses in the form of sanctions, etc. not less than Ukraine.
      Was the game worth the candle?

      Why, Putin was going to throw Poroshenko off, I missed something? I would like to send calibers from the Caspian Sea, in one gulp I could have made the parliament, the Cabinet of Ministers, the Security Service of Ukraine with the National Security and Defense Council, and the City Hall of Kiev with the American Embassy ... in ashes ... laughing
      Destroy Ukraine was not set ... well, as I imagine ... and Putin did not say anything like that. Where did you get this ... request Rather, I see the opposite as the task of pulling Ukraine to the Donbass, in Galicia itself ... so that the Bandera spindle in the grave, the pans in Poland and the Natsiks in the Baltic states shudder ... but so far the timeout ... financially, diplomatically, for geopolitical ... as well as technical reasons.
      Ukraine introduces sanctions .... well, it's generally chicos ... wassat Thanks, laughed in the morning. smile


      And in Kiev already issued a medal for the "vizvolennya Donbas" released .... laughing
      By the way, why do they have a “Donbass” with one “C” and a lowercase letter ... although ... what a return, such a medal ... what
    2. Same lech
      Same lech 10 January 2016 07: 32 New
      +2
      the news published is not credible.


      I would like to believe it .... let's wait for a refutation ... but against the background of the previous murders of the commanders of the DPR and LPR ... anything can happen.
  • LÄRZ
    LÄRZ 10 January 2016 07: 25 New
    +7
    Quote: The same Lech
    everyone knows their habit of tailoring research data to the wishes of WASHINGTON.

    Probably preparing the "drain" of the whole team. Step one.
    1. Leprekon
      Leprekon 10 January 2016 08: 14 New
      +7
      Yes, do not react to this
      atalef
      what kind of discussion can there be with a troll? And he defends the outskirts, probably because he himself is a Hasidim. And they beat them on the outskirts, in the city of Uman, annually, not in vain, but for the mess that their faith allows them, which outstripped the movement of punks and hippies in time with its lack of culture and swinishness.
      Even the language in which they pray is not traditional Hebrew, but Yiddish (almost wrote by DAISH).
      1. 33 Watcher
        33 Watcher 10 January 2016 10: 59 New
        +1
        Yes, not ... He is not a troll, he is just very harmful and an arrogant (thinks that he is the smartest). And so a normal guy like, sane ...
      2. Hello
        Hello 10 January 2016 14: 26 New
        -4
        Quote: Leprechaun
        what kind of discussion can there be with a troll?

        Do you write down all people with opinions different from the general line of the party? Well at least you don't advocate forced euthanasia fool
  • V.ic
    V.ic 10 January 2016 08: 46 New
    +3
    Quote: The same Lech
    a herd of sheep led by such a leader as POROSHENKO ... just jump into the abyss in droves ...

    Rather, not rams, but pigs, in which demons have moved (see the Gospel).
  • katalonec2014
    katalonec2014 10 January 2016 07: 03 New
    0
    I like the third option more, but still as separate independent republics.
    1. Same lech
      Same lech 10 January 2016 07: 10 New
      +6
      I like the third option better


      Alas, now the situation is in limbo ... no war, no peace ... something like the Brethren Treaty in 1917 ... and our desires in geopolitics are not taken seriously by any politician.
      Further ... another financial crisis is approaching, the echoes of which we are now observing as a thunderstorm on the horizon ... and I'm wondering if RUSSIA will be able to bypass this thunderstorm front, or if we will find ourselves in its orbit along with today's problems.
  • venaya
    venaya 10 January 2016 07: 04 New
    +4
    the coming to power in Kiev of an adequate elite capable of uniting the people and pursuing a constructive course in the objective interests of the entire population tends to zero.

    The entire elite is bought up on the vine, works exclusively for external employers and is not able to take into account the interests of its population at least a little due to the peculiarities of its selection, which has already been spent a lot of time (it is even difficult to immediately determine how many years all this has been done).
  • vic58
    vic58 10 January 2016 07: 07 New
    +2
    You know, Dante wrote:
    so consider yourself ... And watch the battle of spiders in the bank ... then I'm not an American !!!! hi
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 10 January 2016 08: 17 New
      +2
      vic58
      The fate of the Northwest is more vague.
      remembering Dante ... and my life ... after counting the circles, I realized that Dante obviously hadn't finished writing a dozen circles ... about ... wink
  • Jozhkin Cat
    Jozhkin Cat 10 January 2016 07: 11 New
    +1
    and I would love to look at another Maidan repeat
    1. svp67
      svp67 10 January 2016 07: 24 New
      15
      Quote: Jozhkin the Cat
      and I would love to look at another Maidan

      Listen, they are already "shell-shocked". The day before yesterday we began to happily report about the "catastrophe" of Aeroflot's Airbus flight SU200 Moscow-Beijing with 285 passengers on board. And there would be nothing if it was reported by one madman, but their various media sites, the same "donbass.uey", carried it. And no arguments that this disaster can not be hidden, that the "flyradar" showed that the flight ended safely on them does not work, there is one argument, but "iron": "the Kremlin organized criminal group agreed with the authorities of Beijing and hid this disaster." And they rejoice at something. Well, there were normal people, but they turned into ukrodebil.
      1. Same lech
        Same lech 10 January 2016 07: 35 New
        +4
        And still there would be nothing if it was reported by one madman, but their various media sites, the same "donbass.uey", carried it.


        And I noticed too smile today another exacerbation of the Western media ...
        dumped a bunch of disinformation Ukrainian bottling ... spring in a month ...
        something early their cats sang songs.
        1. tol100v
          tol100v 10 January 2016 07: 50 New
          +4
          Quote: The same Lech
          .spring in a month ...
          something early their cats sang songs.

          Apparently the State Department ahead of time began to clamp eggs in the door!
      2. LÄRZ
        LÄRZ 10 January 2016 07: 37 New
        +7
        Quote: svp67
        . The day before yesterday they joyfully began to report on the "crash" of the Aeroflot Airbus SU200 Moscow-Beijing flight with 285 passengers on board.

        (DEBILS) x404 "Not the trouble that the pig died, but the trouble that she is alive with her neighbor"
  • Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 10 January 2016 07: 11 New
    +5
    "three main scenarios" + 1, but the most probable and terrible scenario is not given.
    A full-blown civil war, given the Makhnovist mentality of the local indigenous population.
    You can also bungle a provocation on the pipe, there is also some way out, I can't see it from the couch.
    1. svp67
      svp67 10 January 2016 07: 34 New
      +1
      Quote: Mavrikiy
      and the most probable and terrible option is not given

      Its reducibility is not necessary. Take a look at this poll. How many of the Kiyanans answered the provocative question: "Is it worth erecting a monument to Stepan Bendery, a native of Kiev, in Kiev?" How many people answered that Bandera is not a native of Kiev ... and who says this.
    2. LÄRZ
      LÄRZ 10 January 2016 07: 48 New
      +4
      Quote: Mavrikiy
      "three main scenarios" + 1, but the most probable and terrible scenario is not given.
      A full-blown civil war, given the Makhnovist mentality of the local indigenous population.

      Or maybe through this lies their path to purification. "There is no repentance without sin"
      1. Mavrikiy
        Mavrikiy 10 January 2016 14: 29 New
        +2
        Yes, yes, curiously noticed, interesting. Here is God, here they are. We lived for ourselves, sinned where it was quiet where not very much. And he take the infection and wake up, and remember.
        And tomorrow about us ...
        "Don't wake up smartly, while it's quiet"
  • LÄRZ
    LÄRZ 10 January 2016 07: 12 New
    +6
    They warned and spoke, not only we, but also Uncle Biden about all this, but now get it. Or is Russia again to blame? Managing successfully your business does not mean being able to manage the state. The format and principles are different. It’s like a company commander. Ukraine went peddling under the guidance of this manager.
  • heal
    heal 10 January 2016 07: 13 New
    0
    First, Poroshenko managed to build a punitive apparatus that is ineffective in protecting law and order, but extremely effective in protecting his own power. Poroshenko and Yatsenyuk drew the necessary conclusions from Yanukovych's mistakes and set salaries for "their" security officials 3-4 times higher than the national average.

    Replace the names of Poroshenko and Yatsenyuk with the names of people holding similar positions in Russia. What is the difference?

    Incomes of the population, according to official Kiev statistics, have fallen by 26% this year alone.

    since December 15, 2014 (the collapse of the ruble was on December 16) how much did the real incomes of the population in Russia fall?

    Moreover, in 2016, Ukrainians will face a new radical increase in prices, taxes and utility tariffs.

    In Russia, all this has increased every year, and 2016 will not be an exception, and the field of 2018 can be generally "fun".

    The likelihood of the fourth option - the coming to power in Kiev of an adequate elite capable of uniting the people and pursuing a constructive course in the objective interests of the entire population - tends to zero. These interests are too different.

    Again, replace "Kiev" with "Moscow".


    Would it be better to look at themselves than to Ukraine, or is it easier, poking at your neighbor, to gloss over your problems?
    1. svp67
      svp67 10 January 2016 07: 29 New
      +8
      Quote: heal
      Again, replace "Kiev" with "Moscow".

      Maybe you should replace "planet Earth" with "planet Mars" ... Don't talk nonsense. You have someone in Ukraine, so talk to them how much "good" it has become and compare. They have a complete repetition of the 90s, the shopkeepers rewrite almost twice a day, do you see this in Russia?
      1. heal
        heal 10 January 2016 13: 00 New
        -3
        Is that why the Ur-Putriots have a habit of comparing everything to what's worse? And when will they start comparing to which is better?
        1. atalef
          atalef 10 January 2016 13: 07 New
          -4
          Quote: heal
          Is that why the Ur-Putriots have a habit of comparing everything to what's worse? And when will they start comparing to which is better?

          so the problem is not that the cow itself is dead, the problem is that the neighbor is alive.
        2. atalef
          atalef 10 January 2016 13: 07 New
          0
          Quote: heal
          Is that why the Ur-Putriots have a habit of comparing everything to what's worse? And when will they start comparing to which is better?

          so the problem is not that the cow itself is dead, the problem is that the neighbor is alive.
  • Yak28
    Yak28 10 January 2016 07: 14 New
    11
    The most important thing is that Russia does not forget the betrayal of Ukraine, how they ran to America, how they developed anti-Russian sentiments. This cannot be forgiven, everything must be done so that more than one generation of Ukrainians would live in poverty and cough up blood for betraying Russia.
    1. heal
      heal 10 January 2016 07: 24 New
      -2
      Quote: Yak28
      The most important thing is that Russia does not forget the betrayal of Ukraine

      But she did not forget, she began to supply gas to a certain city. Looks like these are measures against enemies.
      1. svp67
        svp67 10 January 2016 07: 30 New
        -3
        Quote: heal
        But she did not forget, she began to supply gas to a certain city. Looks like these are measures against enemies.

        You first figure out whose gas it is and why it was supplied, and only then talk ..
        1. heal
          heal 10 January 2016 13: 01 New
          -3
          Quote: svp67
          You first figure out whose gas it is and why it was supplied, and only then talk ..

          Whose gas is it anyway. Is there a fact of delivery to an enemy country? There is.
          1. svp67
            svp67 10 January 2016 17: 40 New
            +3
            Quote: heal
            Is there a fact of delivery to an enemy country? There is.

            And who called it enemy? You? Well then, don't supply. And Russia does not call it an enemy.
    2. Odysseus
      Odysseus 10 January 2016 07: 32 New
      +8
      Quote: Yak28
      The most important thing is that Russia does not forget the betrayal of Ukraine, how they ran to America, how anti-Russian sentiments developed

      Yes, there was no "betrayal." There was and is the usual routine work of the West to include Ukraine in its zone of influence. Work on the ideological, financial, political front.
      And there was and is a complete absence of such work on the part of Russia.
      Russian capitalism himself surrendered Ukraine to the West; surrendered because of his weakness and dependence on the West.
      But this is a thing of the past, now it is possible to draw appropriate conclusions and start fighting for Ukraine.
      Quote: Yak28
      This cannot be forgiven, everything must be done so that more than one generation of Ukrainians live in poverty and spit blood for betraying Russia.

      I absolutely disagree. We need to knock the West out of Ukraine. This is a minimum program. A maximum program, we need to include Ukraine in the space of our economic influence.
      How the citizens of Ukraine live in this case is not important.
  • Odysseus
    Odysseus 10 January 2016 07: 18 New
    13
    The article sins with excessive, fantastic optimism. What difference does it make to us what rating Poroshenko or Yatsenyuk has if Ukraine is under external control? This is the main, strategic issue and here the opinion of local Ukrainian natives is of no interest to anyone. As for these "opinion polls", it is important for Americans to know what level of support their puppets have. If the current "government" of Ukraine gets everyone, then the United States will simply hold another "democratic "Maidan and change the awl for soap Poroshenko to some Klitschko or Lyashko.
    At the same time, there will never be any "real federalization of the country" since the United States is unnecessary. They took Ukraine in order to use this territory as a springboard to create an eternal hemorrhoid for Russia and, to a lesser extent, Europe. And who will carry out this policy of Poroshenko , Sadovaya, or Klitschko, they do not care.
    In order to solve this problem, we need to throw off the American puppets. The problem itself cannot be resolved and Ukraine cannot fall apart.
    1. jovanni
      jovanni 10 January 2016 08: 29 New
      +3
      In order to solve this problem, we need to throw off the American puppets. The problem itself cannot be resolved and Ukraine cannot fall apart.

      That's for sure. And most likely, it is not necessary to start throwing off in Ukraine ...
      1. V.ic
        V.ic 10 January 2016 09: 09 New
        +2
        Quote: Jovanni
        And most likely, it is not necessary to start throwing off in Ukraine ...

        Huh ... As soon as you start, the screams will go like: "horses on the crossing do not change" ...
  • kursk87
    kursk87 10 January 2016 07: 21 New
    +4
    The aggressive geopolitical activities of the United States managed to embroil the two fraternal peoples by introducing Russophobia and hatred of everything Russian into the consciousness of a certain part of Ukrainian society. Wherever Washington turns its gaze everywhere violence, poverty, death
    1. udincev
      udincev 10 January 2016 09: 13 New
      +2
      Quote: kursk87
      Aggressive geopolitical activities of the United States managed to embroil the two fraternal peoples

      The people are one, the states are different. They spoke confusedly, but in principle everything is correct.
  • rvRomanoff
    rvRomanoff 10 January 2016 07: 23 New
    +5
    Unfortunately for the grunts, they do not have a centuries-old history of their own statehood for these most adequate elites to appear. But they have centuries-old traditions of all kinds of walk-fields.
  • rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 10 January 2016 07: 27 New
    +2
    Ukraine is finally falling apart ...

    It seems to me that the third option is the most likely. Considering that Donbass will certainly not remain a part of today's Ukraine and the fact that some EU countries are still in absentia, but have already cut their pieces.
  • The black
    The black 10 January 2016 07: 34 New
    +5
    I remembered the joke: laughing
    - I used to be very complex due to the fact that I urinated in my pants and I was recommended to see a psychologist.
    - Well, how did it help, and you stopped urinating?
    - No, but now I'm proud of it!

    So it is in Ukraine. The country is in .op, but the patriots are proud of it, because smart people from the State Department explained to them that they were crazy about this one! laughing
    1. heal
      heal 10 January 2016 13: 04 New
      -1
      Quote: Black
      The country is in .op, but the patriots are proud of it, because smart people from the State Department explained to them that they were crazy about this one!

      And in our country the ruble has collapsed twice, the welfare of the people - too, people are being cut everywhere, their salaries are being cut, but Putin constantly explains that it is Russia that is getting up from its knees and that the Patriots are proud of it.
  • The black
    The black 10 January 2016 07: 44 New
    +5
    The worst thing is that the West has managed to upset the relationship between Russians and Ukrainians. SIMPLE AS THAT. How quickly the Ukrainians were brainwashed! Even Pavlov took more effort to teach the dog to react to the light of a light bulb ... sad
    1. heal
      heal 10 January 2016 13: 05 New
      -1
      Quote: Black
      The worst thing is that the West has managed to upset the relationship between Russians and Ukrainians

      Nobody could upset anything if the Ukrainians themselves did not want to.
  • ochakow703
    ochakow703 10 January 2016 07: 45 New
    +6
    For a long time we will have to rake this hemorrhoids. Sooner or later, and the disease will pass (maybe after surgery), and then we will, gritting our teeth, restore everything that has been destroyed for the sake of foreigners. And not ukrovlast, but ours, and our people will bring this hole up to European standards.
  • AID.S
    AID.S 10 January 2016 07: 46 New
    +1
    "Poroshenko is no longer a cake": the split in Ukraine is getting stronger. "

    Soon the fairy tale will tell, but it won't be done soon .. or the eternal Country "Nakolumochalo"?
  • dchegrinec
    dchegrinec 10 January 2016 07: 50 New
    0
    Whichever option happens, one thing is clear: judging by the face, it will not last long. As they say, no matter what they say into the microphone at the teleendor, but the result is imprinted on the face.
  • rf xnumx
    rf xnumx 10 January 2016 07: 53 New
    +3
    "Poroshenko is no longer a cake": the split of Ukraine is getting stronger
    Ukrainian
    steppe ... On the outskirts of a small village, two Ukrainians are sitting on a heap. Fat,
    vodka, talk for life ... Silence all around ... Suddenly a strange
    a sneezing sound, an old "cornman" falls out from behind a cloud. Chassis
    no, the wings are bent, somehow it reaches the village and falls into
    a dilapidated barn on the outskirts. A column of dust and silence ... One crest
    to another: - Well, what about? Yaka country - the same terrorist attacks
  • rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 10 January 2016 07: 53 New
    +2
    Quote: heal
    Would it be better to look at themselves than to Ukraine, or is it easier, poking at your neighbor, to gloss over your problems?

    And you are definitely not from the Russian world. You are deliberately confusing who their problems, and those created by themselves, has been shifting onto Russia for many years. It seems that Okara has appeared on the site.
    1. heal
      heal 10 January 2016 13: 06 New
      +1
      Quote: rotmistr60
      And you are definitely not from the Russian world. You are deliberately confusing who their problems, and those created by themselves, has been shifting onto Russia for many years.

      You understand what you wrote yourself, who is from the Russian world?
  • Dragon-y
    Dragon-y 10 January 2016 07: 58 New
    +2
    "... And in 2016, Ukrainians will face a new radical increase in prices, taxes and utility tariffs ..."

    We also decided to raise tariffs for housing and communal services. (Yesterday in the news they reported - they will sharply increase the payment for water. Installation of meters - several thousand rubles, at their own expense. For example, in my apartment (the house was built in the mid-60s) this will require a complete alteration of the input pipes, i.e. besides the meters themselves, you will also have to pay the cost of work, comparable to the overhaul of the input. There is no money for alteration ...) Do we want to organize the Maidan, or what?
    1. olimpiada15
      olimpiada15 10 January 2016 09: 43 New
      +1
      Quote: Dragon-y
      "... And in 2016, Ukrainians will face a new radical increase in prices, taxes and utility tariffs ..."

      We also decided to raise tariffs for housing and communal services. (Yesterday in the news they reported - they will sharply increase the payment for water. Installation of meters - several thousand rubles, at their own expense. For example, in my apartment (the house was built in the mid-60s) this will require a complete alteration of the input pipes, i.e. besides the meters themselves, you will also have to pay the cost of work, comparable to the overhaul of the input. There is no money for alteration ...) Do we want to organize the Maidan, or what?

      Where are you from? The prices in the capital are not adequate. In general, the counters are cheap - ~ 200 rubles. I changed pipes in sq. 1970, work - 3 thousand, mixers - 5 thousand, pipes, meters, etc. 2 thousand Consumption decreased by 2 times, but just the counters pay off in a few months, before there is no hot water for a month, and the discount is only 20 rubles. hinterland, prices are not metropolitan.
      1. heal
        heal 10 January 2016 13: 08 New
        +2
        Quote: olimpiada15
        just the counters pay off in a few months

        Nothing, nothing, they will introduce ONE, and we will pay for those who have no meters (by analogy with electric meters).
        1. The comment was deleted.
  • Great-grandfather of Zeus
    Great-grandfather of Zeus 10 January 2016 08: 06 New
    0
    Yes, even if the parashenka rating is at least minus three hundred percent, the State Department has set not to raise the economy, but to kill, and at the same time completely break all relations with us. He copes with his task, which means he will continue to sit on the throne ..
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 10 January 2016 08: 08 New
    17
    We have to wait ... The hype around Ukraine is dying down and the spiders will soon start eating each other!
  • Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 10 January 2016 08: 08 New
    +3
    Yes already tired of this territory. Insufficiently controlled from the outside. What difference does it make whether the people support the government and the president or not. Poroshenko is not Yanukovych. Any Maidan will declare the intrigues of the separatists and disperse them with machine guns. There are too many weapons. Rather, the Makhnovshchina will begin.
    1. The black
      The black 10 January 2016 08: 16 New
      +2
      The Makhnovshchina began there long ago ... each oligarch has its own mini-army, each party has its own fighting detachment ...
  • samarin1969
    samarin1969 10 January 2016 08: 19 New
    -2
    Gallop is an instrument of American pressure on Poroshenko, no more. The businessman Petro Poroshenko hardly needs a mace without a gesheft. Well, they will merge Poroshenko, they will put the same "frostbitten horse" ... Russia won't get any better from this.

    Option 1.1.
    Ukrainian citizens are disappointed with both Europeans and Russia in the West and East.
    Ukrainians have learned to survive with all thieves, they will survive even with these.
    Ukrainians are stupidly waiting for the internal problems of the Russian Federation.
    Ukraine will not fall apart. (Neither the US nor the Kremlin will allow).
    Donbass SLOWLY, under the smiles and applause of the Kremlin, Brussels, Washington will return to Kiev.
  • Neophyte
    Neophyte 10 January 2016 08: 48 New
    +2
    I'm sick of this topic! Guessing about the future of this outskirts is disgusting, since the population is absolutely Svidomo and chose chaos itself.
    1. heal
      heal 10 January 2016 13: 09 New
      0
      Quote: Neophyte
      Guessing about the future of this outskirts is disgusting, since the population is absolutely Svidomo and has chosen chaos itself.

      Exactly. If the enemy chose chaos, you need to help him continue to fall into it.
  • valokordin
    valokordin 10 January 2016 08: 48 New
    +2
    Quote: samarin1969
    Gallop is an instrument of American pressure on Poroshenko, no more. The businessman Petro Poroshenko hardly needs a mace without a gesheft. Well, they will merge Poroshenko, they will put the same "frostbitten horse" ... Russia won't get any better from this.

    Option 1.1.
    Ukrainian citizens are disappointed with both Europeans and Russia in the West and East.
    Ukrainians have learned to survive with all thieves, they will survive even with these.
    Ukrainians are stupidly waiting for the internal problems of the Russian Federation.
    Ukraine will not fall apart. (Neither the US nor the Kremlin will allow).
    Donbass SLOWLY, under the smiles and applause of the Kremlin, Brussels, Washington will return to Kiev.

    Are you sure of this ?, and asked the militias and residents of Donbass about this, that they died for the smiles and applause of Washington and Brussels? But if the Kremlin applauds, then the residents of the Kremlin will have to move to Kiev.
    1. samarin1969
      samarin1969 10 January 2016 09: 28 New
      0
      You are RIGHT ... except for the last sentence ... "Will not move."
      The oracle Kiselyov will correctly explain to the "electorate" of the Russian Federation ... In the Donbas, instead of an oracle for the "dull" there is "DRG-aliens"
      Militia leaders died in 2015 already more than in the ATO ... Without the collusion of the Bulava and the Power, this would be impossible ...
  • karevik
    karevik 10 January 2016 09: 04 New
    +3
    People! Are you out of stock or what? I'm talking about the so-called ukrov sanctions against us! Sanction is a term for punishment! And what punishment can be in relation to us, including the Crimea, from the ukrov? It's just whining from powerlessness, ah the pug know it is strong if it gives on the elephant or scared the hedgehog naked home! But the fact that they need to be brought to their senses without making further concessions is yes. Our president is wise, but it seems to me that he is a little too clever with ukrami! They are like
    Turks understand only when they get it in the teeth, with their calibers, with their calibers!
  • Sevastopol
    Sevastopol 10 January 2016 09: 12 New
    +2
    all these options are unrealistic, as for me.
    option five:
    there will be no federalization, no matter how reasonable it may seem, and no matter how the Kremlin and the West call for it.
    and the collapse has already happened, actually. those who wanted - are no longer in Ukraine and will never be in it again.
    in the remaining "Ukraine" it will be the same as now, only default, inflation, denomination and, as a result, total civil all against everyone, which will go on for decades, with an incomprehensible outcome.
    the author is too optimistic. just, apparently, in this unfinished place he himself never lived.
    23 years of insanity was enough for us in Crimea to understand that this misunderstanding "Ukraine" lies ahead of us with only a bloody abyss and nothing else.
    1. revnagan
      revnagan 10 January 2016 11: 48 New
      +1
      Quote: Sevastopolets
      the author is too optimistic. just, apparently, in this unfinished place he himself never lived.

      This is exactly. As he quickly signed for the entire "North-West" of Ukraine. He divided it, as if under a ruler: there is a good South-East, here is a bad North-West. Point. And what is still, at least, the North-East He couldn't even think of it. He thought of it: he blinded Chernigov and Sumy regions with the Galicians. He baptized a snake with a hedgehog, and also declares that they have the same vision of the situation.
  • Bubyr
    Bubyr 10 January 2016 09: 47 New
    +1
    I think that there will be no federalization because Kiev is losing money (just look at the reaction of Ukrainian politicians to this proposal). There is a small likelihood of a change of this regime to a more adequate one, of course, not at the "will of the people", but because of the oligarchs who suffer no small losses with this government and who can give the green light and money to either the new Maidan or a political force such as the oppo.bloka.
  • avva2012
    avva2012 10 January 2016 10: 25 New
    +3
    Quote: atalef
    You can say anything you like, but facts are a stubborn thing.
    Russia has not yet been able not to ruin Ukraine, not to throw Poroshenko.
    At the same time, it suffered losses in the form of sanctions, etc. not less than Ukraine.
    Was the game worth the candle?

    Quote: atalef
    oh yes. it's only the beginning.
    Our generation will live under communism - even the Khrushchev said.

    Quote: atalef

    Yes ? where did you decide?
    Georgia the Baltic states. Moldova --- are you not an example?
    Why will Ukraine return?
    Because Lavrov and the Foreign Ministry will come up with something?
    why did you decide. what is Ukraine. in its economic condition. will definitely fall under Russia?
    After all that was?

    I just remembered the history of the Russian State, and noticed one very interesting detail. I don’t know such a country, which in its history would not have lost so many territories. Southern Sakhalin, Dagestan, the Black Sea region, Bessarabia, Northern Bukovina, Finland, the Baltic states, Ukraine, part of Belarus, part of Armenia with Mount Ararat, etc. And here's what the fuck is. Russia, without haste, returned everything lost sooner or later. Moreover, sometimes in abundance: the Kuril Islands, East Prussia, Karelia. The time will come and everything will fall into place. Simply, the country is like that.
    1. a housewife
      a housewife 11 January 2016 14: 11 New
      0
      Just breathing - inhale, exhale. laughing Inhale soon.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • LÄRZ
    LÄRZ 10 January 2016 10: 35 New
    +3
    "If Peter" had "a horse, it would be a number, If a horse" had "Peter, Peter probably would have died"
    Quote: The same Lech
    everyone knows their habit of tailoring research data to the wishes of WASHINGTON
    Washington (horse) began his business.
    1. Ros 56
      Ros 56 10 January 2016 11: 31 New
      0
      For the New Year's rhyme, the score is 5.
  • gingerbread man 59
    gingerbread man 59 10 January 2016 11: 12 New
    0
    for the third option, neither 1 nor 2 nor 4 option suits me
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 10 January 2016 11: 20 New
    +1
    Quote: wicked partisan
    Quote: Andrew Y.
    everything is vague there, in principle, by definition, a priori ...

    Arpiori ?? belay Ish, what a clever guy he found! I haven't memorized the periodic table yet request, but still there: apeori ...
    Hello smart guy! drinks

    laughing laughing Yes, ekarny bogeyman .. They grabbed the "words" and spar, how much in vain! Elite ...
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 10 January 2016 11: 30 New
    +2
    Quote: atalef
    Our generation will live under communism - even the Khrushchev said.


    Yours will definitely not be. This time.
    Second. You'd better worry about how things are in Syria, ISIS will come running, it won't seem a little.
    By the way, ask the Saudis how they are with the budget, amid falling oil prices. These are three.
    So, to sit hell knows where and troll, not a very noble occupation for a normal person. Good luck balabolka.
    1. atalef
      atalef 10 January 2016 12: 20 New
      -4
      Quote: Ros 56
      Yours will definitely not be. This is the second. You'd better worry about how things are in Syria, ISIS will come running, it won't seem a little. By the way, ask the Saudis how they are with the budget against the backdrop of falling oil prices. It's three

      Here's how it all of the above - do not care.
      Honestly - on the drum

      Quote: Ros 56
      So, to sit hell knows where and troll, not a very noble occupation for a normal person. Good luck balabolka.

      Who are you? Who knows you here? How long are you on the site? 20 days. laughing
      1. Ros 56
        Ros 56 10 January 2016 18: 43 New
        +4
        Quote: atalef
        Who are you? Who knows you here? How long are you on the site? 20 days


        You take on a lot, you think in Israel and you are the navel of the Earth. You are very wrong. And it is not necessary to communicate with strangers with such ambition. Some people in a moment become known to the whole world, others smoke the sky for decades, but little sense. Naturally, I'm not talking about myself.
        hi And after reading your comments, I made conclusions for myself, you are our omniscient.
  • avva2012
    avva2012 10 January 2016 11: 36 New
    0
    Quote: atalef
    Quote: Truth
    When it comes to you and you realize that pouring Vovka with poop, you yourself are driving his rating into the ceiling.

    Yes to me. frankly, absolutely vseravno on Putin's rating. in my life this is in no way reflected.
    I’m trying to make sense of the facts. not slogans like - If you don't like it in the West. then we are doing everything right !!!
    I think . that the whole policy with regard to Ukraine was not right from the beginning and that Yanek needed to be restrained. and not let him plunder everything and everyone.
    Duckle. said A - it was necessary to speak B.
    We started from the Crimea. it was necessary or finished. or go to the end and take everything to Odessa.
    and so ..
    I don’t know what to call all this hemorrhoids.

    Hemorrhoids, in Israel, are called Palestinians. You suggest we were to get into the whole Black Sea region? There, over 25 years, are everyone pro-Russian? The fact of the matter is that no. Not long ago, unlike you, we only agreed with our own people (Chechens, for example), but here again a crowd of dissatisfied? Even Odessa, this is not the Crimea. Let them cook themselves, think. And there, you see, they themselves will ripen.
    1. atalef
      atalef 10 January 2016 12: 38 New
      -1
      Quote: avva2012
      Hemorrhoids, in Israel, called Palestinians

      It seems that the presence of our hemorrhoids makes your
      Quote: avva2012
      You suggest we were to get into the whole Black Sea region?


      Of course
      Quote: avva2012
      Over there, in 25 years, are they all pro-Russian?

      Is that all in the Donbass?
      Quote: avva2012
      not. Not long ago, unlike you, we only came to an agreement with our own people (Chechens, for example), but here again a crowd of dissatisfied?

      You pay tribute to them, stop paying - you will see how the contract evaporates.
      And we are greedy, we do not pay.
      Quote: avva2012
      Even Odessa is not Crimea. Let them cook themselves, think. And, there, you see, they themselves will ripen.

      And what can you give them?
    2. atalef
      atalef 10 January 2016 12: 38 New
      -2
      Quote: avva2012
      Hemorrhoids, in Israel, called Palestinians

      It seems that the presence of our hemorrhoids makes your
      Quote: avva2012
      You suggest we were to get into the whole Black Sea region?


      Of course
      Quote: avva2012
      Over there, in 25 years, are they all pro-Russian?

      Is that all in the Donbass?
      Quote: avva2012
      not. Not long ago, unlike you, we only came to an agreement with our own people (Chechens, for example), but here again a crowd of dissatisfied?

      You pay tribute to them, stop paying - you will see how the contract evaporates.
      And we are greedy, we do not pay.
      Quote: avva2012
      Even Odessa is not Crimea. Let them cook themselves, think. And, there, you see, they themselves will ripen.

      And what can you give them?
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 10 January 2016 11: 50 New
    +2
    "bat" flapped its wings on the site ... Be careful, guys! bully This creature "sucking blood" ...
  • MolGro
    MolGro 10 January 2016 11: 57 New
    +1
    Sponsor of Ukraine!
  • koshmarik
    koshmarik 10 January 2016 12: 01 New
    +2
    I think that the Russophobic and anti-Russian ideas driven into the heads of most Ukrainians, which are also fueled by official propaganda and reinforced by the power of the right sector, have so far continued to operate quite effectively. Therefore, the country is not strong enough about the Russian opposition, and the government’s activities in the exile of Azarov are not very productive. A significant part of Ukrainians are ready for deprivation in the name of a "bright" European future. As long as the US and the EU keep the Ukrainian ox on this carrot, the situation will not change significantly. Unfortunately, there are no forces capable of changing the situation in Ukraine, since the social strata on which they could rely are still far from ripe.
    1. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 10 January 2016 14: 45 New
      +1
      koshmarik
      Well done, five, excellent combat and political training. Reported clearly and clearly.
      Only options are possible everywhere that are not controlled by logic. We didn't have a carrot, but a noose, and we stood in the orchestra, and now we are already floundering further, so everything is possible, we'll see.
  • Zomanus
    Zomanus 10 January 2016 12: 59 New
    0
    Good article.
    Poroshenko will not go for federalization.
    Because it requires political will and courage.
    Therefore, Kuev and rich regions will suck to the last,
    and then everyone will drop and scatter.
    Moreover, the shitty they will be in the country, the more boundless the robbery will be.
  • avva2012
    avva2012 10 January 2016 13: 00 New
    +1
    Quote: atalef
    It seems that the presence of our hemorrhoids makes your
    Quote: avva2012
    You suggest we were to get into the whole Black Sea region?

    I just don’t want a new hemorrhoids with us. About yours, I do not want to say anything (not evil), do it yourself somehow.
    Quote: atalef
    Of course

    To hell with us. Are you that wicked?
    Quote: atalef
    Is that all in the Donbass?

    No, but whoever did not want to leave. Maybe you don’t know, but Donbass has been filtered from the West of Ukraine for a long time. Apparently, they left, and now they are fighting against.
    Quote: atalef
    You pay tribute to them, stop paying - you will see how the contract evaporates.

    We have agreed to. And by the way, why pay? Ekhomoskva heard enough? Well, they have oil there and of good quality, we just buy (or rather give a percentage of sales), like all civilized countries.
    And we are greedy, we do not pay.
    Do you have anything? The whole country, less than the city of Irkutsk with suburbs. laughing
    Quote: atalef
    And what can you give them?

    Perhaps security, happiness and prosperity.
    1. atalef
      atalef 10 January 2016 13: 20 New
      -1
      Quote: avva2012
      I just don't want a new hemorrhoid


      Syria, in comparison with Donbass - is hemorrhoids for a long time
      Quote: avva2012
      To hell with us. Are you that wicked?

      No, I'm a realist.
      Do not start if you have not set a goal.
      Quote: avva2012
      but Donbass was filtered from the West of Ukraine for a long time. Apparently, they left, and now they are fighting against.

      not understood ?
      Quote: avva2012
      We have agreed to

      With whom ?
      Quote: avva2012
      And by the way, why are we paying? Echomoskvy heard enough?

      Well, no fairy tales, well, no.
      If we are talking about real things, then at least do not lie to yourself.
      Quote: avva2012
      Do you have anything? The whole country, less than Irkutsk with its suburbs

      In, that's the point.
      For the first time in history, GDP exceeded the 1 trillion shekels mark and amounted to 1,05 trillion, or 301 billion dollars.

      The level of GDP per capita also reached a record level - 37,3 thousand dollars. The standard of living in the country grew by 1,8%, and the volume of private consumption - by 3,7%.

      301 billion dollars, Carl
      22.5 trillion rubles.
      Irkutsk you say?
      Quote: avva2012
      Perhaps security, happiness and prosperity.

      To whom? Ukraine?
      Well, security can be immediately omitted, but the rest?
      Do you have it yourself?
      1. MIKHAN
        MIKHAN 10 January 2016 13: 41 New
        +1
        atalef today is clearly in the spirit ... All point by point and straight to the brain! Well done! Good job... hi
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. The comment was deleted.
  • Yuriy Nikolayevich
    Yuriy Nikolayevich 10 January 2016 13: 48 New
    +6
    Quote: iza top
    Quote: atalef
    Ukraine did not fall apart

    tongue

    laughing
    1. atalef
      atalef 10 January 2016 13: 56 New
      -4
      Quote: Yuri Nikolayevich
      Quote: iza top
      Quote: atalef
      Ukraine did not fall apart

      tongue

      laughing

      Yes, we say the same
      Ein aravim - ein pigouim (no arabs - no terrorist attacks)
      only reality is different.
    2. atalef
      atalef 10 January 2016 13: 56 New
      0
      Quote: Yuri Nikolayevich
      Quote: iza top
      Quote: atalef
      Ukraine did not fall apart

      tongue

      laughing

      Yes, we say the same
      Ein aravim - ein pigouim (no arabs - no terrorist attacks)
      only reality is different.
      1. MIKHAN
        MIKHAN 10 January 2016 14: 41 New
        +5
        Quote: atalef
        Ein aravim - ein pigouim (no arabs - no terrorist attacks)
        only reality is different.

        Well done ! They spoke excellently! Guys remember this slogan .. atalef I think I let it slip, finally (waited a long time))))! bullySo it is in Ukraine ...
        1. atalef
          atalef 10 January 2016 14: 49 New
          -2
          Quote: MIKHAN
          Well done ! They spoke excellently! Guys, remember this slogan

          Meehan, since when do you need a support group?

          Quote: MIKHAN
          ..atalef I think I let it slip, finally (waited a long time))))!

          Patience is rewarded. and Meehan? Just what did you find so surprising in my statement?
          Quote: MIKHAN
          So it is in Ukraine ...


          What are they dancing, or what?
          Hasidim are like Indians, they dance for any reason. Why dance - not work.
          1. MIKHAN
            MIKHAN 10 January 2016 14: 56 New
            +2
            Quote: atalef
            Meehan, since when do you need a support group?

            Yes, here are your comments .. Very tricky and do not know which answer (all are broken by question to question ..) But the dance clip, I definitely answered everything! Right? bully
    3. Ros 56
      Ros 56 10 January 2016 15: 39 New
      +3
      Quote: Yuri Nikolayevich
      A significant part of Ukrainians are ready for hardships in the name of a "bright" European future.


      Even those born on 10.01.2016/XNUMX/XNUMX will not see this future.
      And N. Starikov is 200% right. As I already wrote, they clowns should lick the monuments of Lenin with tongues, and they demolish them Poor, what can you do (of course I'm not talking about everyone). The most difficult process is the process of forming an adequate personality, too many factors determine it.
  • avva2012
    avva2012 10 January 2016 13: 50 New
    +2
    Quote: atalef
    Syria, in comparison with Donbass - is hemorrhoids for a long time

    Are you Wang? What are the parallels?
    Quote: atalef
    No, I'm a realist.
    Do not start if you have not set a goal.

    How do you know that V.V. Putin's head. What goals are you talking about? Strategically, Russia needs at least the entire right bank and the Black Sea coast. Such things are not done abruptly. Somewhere tactically, we lose, but this is always the case with everyone. YES, under Yushchenko, we definitely lost. And with the Crimea, we did very well. Do not envy! crying
    Quote: atalef
    not understood ?

    Resettlements were carried out from Galitchina to Donbass. By the way, part of the Ukrainians who were taken out of Poland after the agreement with the USSR. Ethnic Poles from the Ukrainian SSR (West), went to Poland, Ukrainians from Poland to the Ukrainian SSR (Volyn massacre). Part of those Ukrainians and settled in the Donbass.
    Quote: atalef
    Well, no fairy tales, well, no.
    If we are talking about real things, then at least do not lie to yourself.

    Well, Sasha, how do you know that we are paying? I, however, say the yellow press and not the desire to accept the obvious. In Russia, they can negotiate, unlike ...
    Quote: atalef
    301 billion dollars, Carl
    22.5 trillion rubles. Do you speak Irkutsk?

    Do you think I would exchange my Irkutsk region for Israel? Oh what are you! I live here normally. And the martyrs do not bother me. And rockets do not fly and will not fly. So, to me, these trillions, to one place. Russia, there is Russia. Do you agree, Carl?
    Quote: atalef
    To whom? Ukraine?
    Well, security can be immediately omitted, but the rest?
    Do you have it yourself?

    Do you doubt it? Maybe the yellow press again? You have to work, and here you will have both happiness and prosperity. And, in Russia, it’s much easier to achieve this. Don’t listen, Sasha. I assure you, everything is not the way anyone wanted. And why is security omitted? I, you know, remember 90, there is something to compare. Safety is the main thing!
    1. atalef
      atalef 10 January 2016 14: 05 New
      -3
      Quote: avva2012
      Are you Wang? What are the parallels?

      What about Syria? Do you doubt it?
      Quote: avva2012
      How do you know that V.V. Putin's head. What goals are you talking about? Russia, strategically, needs at least the entire right bank and the Black Sea coast. Such deeds are not done implicitly

      They are either done right away or --- it's too late.
      Quote: avva2012
      And with Crimea, we did very well. Do not envy

      With the Crimea then? It happened well with Zap. Bereg at the time, we still cannot disentangle.
      Quote: avva2012
      Well, Sasha, how do you know that we are paying?

      Well, no, everything in Chechnya for their own money laughing
      Quote: avva2012
      In Russia, they know how to negotiate, in contrast ...

      Well with Ukraine, Georgia. Moldova, etc. - did not agree?
      Quote: avva2012
      Do you think I would change my Irkutsk region to Israel?

      What for ? You have your own homeland, I have my own.
      Quote: avva2012
      I live normally here too. And the martyrs don't bother me. And rockets don't fly and won't fly

      Is this the main thing compared to what you feel at home?
      And would there be martyrs and missiles, would you leave?
      I have Canadian citizenship. Russia, I would like to receive Ukraine.
      In Canada, life is calmer and richer, in Russia with my money and profession, I certainly would not live in poverty (Ukraine - well, fuck it laughing ) - but home is home. You probably understand me
      Quote: avva2012
      So, I have these trillions, to one place. Russia is Russia. Do you agree, Karl?

      Read the post above - namesake
      Quote: avva2012
      You have to work, so you will have both happiness and prosperity

      Agree
      Quote: avva2012
      Why omit security? I, you know, remember the 90s, there is something to compare. Safety is the main thing!

      Only Ukraine you will not give it. more precisely, they will not believe you.
  • sleeping sayan
    sleeping sayan 10 January 2016 14: 16 New
    +2
    Yes, with such a profession as a political branch, you will be useful everywhere.
  • Prutkov
    Prutkov 10 January 2016 14: 17 New
    +3
    Congratulations, Atalef! You become a Proffessor (three "f", three "s"). The previous holder of this title did not manipulate data so much. Who told you that Russia's goal is to destroy Ukraine?
    1. MIKHAN
      MIKHAN 10 January 2016 16: 20 New
      +2
      Quote: Rods
      Congratulations, Atalef! You become a Proffessor (three "f", three "s"). The previous holder of this title did not manipulate data so much. Who told you that Russia's goal is to destroy Ukraine?

      Purpose ... They will never tell! hi
  • avva2012
    avva2012 10 January 2016 14: 23 New
    +3
    Quote: atalef
    What about Syria? Do you doubt it?

    This, not my level, and not yours. We don’t know much. But, in my opinion, let’s break through, GDP is not dumber than us.
    Quote: atalef

    They are either done right away or --- it's too late.

    Haste when catching fleas, and with diarrhea. Everything else, you need to do it slowly (ask your wife). winked
    Quote: atalef
    With the Crimea then? It happened well with Zap. Bereg at the time, we still cannot disentangle.

    With all due respect to the Jewish people and Israel, do not compare. Weight categories are not comparable. Yes, as one man said, "live with mine, you will be standing." This is in terms of history, the time of the existence of the state.
    Quote: atalef
    Well with Ukraine, Georgia. Moldova, etc. - did not agree?

    See above.
    Quote: atalef
    Is this the main thing compared to what you feel at home?
    And would there be martyrs and missiles, would you leave?
    I have Canadian citizenship. Russia, I would like to receive Ukraine.
    In Canada, life is calmer and richer, in Russia with my money and profession, I certainly would not be in poverty (Ukraine - well, fuck it laughing) - but the house is the house. You probably understand me

    Five plus, colleague! But, and I about that, in fact, we are not very bad hi And you to me here with your trillions, not happiness in them and not in their quantity.
    Quote: atalef
    Only Ukraine you will not give it. more precisely, they will not believe you.

    They will live, they will believe. I, that's why I am an opponent of forceful decisions in Ukraine.
    In Russia for 25 years, the majority of the population loves the USSR, and this is already a phantom. And Russia is nearby. There will be something to compare in reality.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. atalef
      atalef 10 January 2016 14: 56 New
      -4
      Quote: avva2012
      This, not my level, and not yours. We don’t know much. But, in my opinion, let’s break through, GDP is not dumber than us.

      Why? Do you think that GDP cannot be wrong?

      Quote: avva2012
      Haste in catching fleas, and in diarrhea. Everything else should be done slowly


      Well, like go down and take the whole herd? This is only in jokes.
      And here - who did not have time, he was late - and you understand that
      Quote: avva2012
      With all due respect to the Jewish people and Israel, do not compare. Weight categories are not comparable

      Of course, hemorrhoids, respectively, are the same
      Quote: avva2012
      Yes, as one person used to say, "live with mine, we will be standing still." This is in terms of history, the time of the state's existence

      Yes ? And how many Russia exist? So the question is?
      Quote: avva2012
      They will live on their own, believe. That is why I am an opponent of military solutions in Ukraine

      Late, oil is already spilled
      Quote: avva2012
      In Russia for 25 years, the majority of the population loves the USSR, and this is already a phantom. And Russia is nearby. There will be something to compare in reality.

      They do not like the USSR, but the quiet life that neither Yeltsin nor Putin could provide for the Russians.
      Where else do they dream of the USSR? In which former republics?
      1. Militia
        Militia 10 January 2016 23: 47 New
        +1
        Yes ? And how many Russia exist? So the question is?

        The beginning of Russian statehood is 862. (acc. to Wikipedia)
        1. Ros 56
          Ros 56 11 January 2016 13: 06 New
          +1
          Did you go to school? It seems like they taught history.
  • for_White_Only
    for_White_Only 10 January 2016 14: 59 New
    -6
    Quote: Oleg147741
    Quote: svp67
    I was lucky enough to live in developed socialism

    me too, sorry the children didn't find me!

    It is a pity that the children did not find what ??? queues for meat? super-selection of clothes? "mega" TV "Rainbow"? Thank God that they did not find it ... And yes, kissing portraits of Brezhnev on May 1, under the threat of dismissal or something else) scoops are scoops)
  • avva2012
    avva2012 10 January 2016 15: 17 New
    +2
    Quote: atalef
    Why? Do you think that GDP cannot be wrong?

    I hope. smile
    Quote: atalef

    Well, like go down and take the whole herd? This is only in jokes.
    And here - who did not have time, he was late - and you understand that

    Who said they were late? Under Yushchenko, like Crimea, it would certainly not have been ours.
    Quote: atalef
    Of course, hemorrhoids, respectively, are the same

    Do you have less? I don’t think so.
    Quote: atalef
    Yes ? And how many Russia exist? So the question is?

    About about 1000 years.
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 10 January 2016 15: 31 New
    +3
    Quote: Phantom Revolution
    Here is the debate of analysts at Russia Today, perhaps someone will be useful.
    One thing is clear that the USA does not close the project and will continue to use it against us until we organize the Maidan.


    So what's the deal. We promote Medvedev to allocate money, we connect the Foreign Ministry, the Foreign Intelligence Service, the FSB, we attract guys from the GRU and the former Soviet, from those who live in the states, and before the elections in America we arrange a maidan in front of the Capitol. Plus, we attract local residents - Indians, African Americans, Latinos and other disgruntled oppositionists. It will be a lot of fun, we will bring up our fleet from both sides, like they are in the Black Sea. Something like this.
    PS I almost forgot - to those wishing from all countries to express their "gratitude" to the states, for the "democracy" introduced, to provide free transport with delivery to the coast. Applications should be submitted in advance, since there will not be enough transport for everyone, I think.