Military Review

Last year, the troops received 80 thousand sets of "Warrior"

127
About 80 thousand Russian troops in 2015 g were provided with 2 generation combat equipment “Warrior”, reports RIA News Post commander ground troops Oleg Salyukov.




"Started serial supply (" Warrior ") to the troops. In 2015, about 80 thousands of servicemen were provided with combat equipment, ”said Salyukov.

The colonel-general recalled that "the work on the creation of the" Warrior "kit was completed in March."

According to him, the specialists "started work on the creation of third-generation equipment, which will surpass foreign analogues, taking into account the forecast of their development before 2025 of the year."

“Improvement of combat equipment is carried out to improve the effectiveness of combat operations, reduce losses and increase survival by increasing the level and area of ​​body armor, using a medical monitoring system. The mobility of a fighter should be increased by using exoskeletons and reducing the mass of the wearable equipment to 20 a kilogram, ”said Salyukov.

“All these areas of development of combat equipment require the creation of a new elemental base, the development of new technologies in the production of materials with a number of useful properties, and comprehensive testing,” he added.

Help Agency: “The“ Warrior ”- the second generation combat equipment of the Russian Armed Forces today, combines modern small arms, effective protection elements, reconnaissance and communications equipment, only five different subsystems. TsNIITOCHMASH, the leading organization in the field of portable weapons and military equipment, is currently conducting research work on third-generation equipment. ”
Photos used:
www.youtube.com
127 comments
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  1. awersa
    awersa 9 January 2016 12: 01 New
    63
    Well, thank God, those days have passed when the main criterion for the form / equipment was “Beauty from Yudashkin”)))
    1. The black
      The black 9 January 2016 12: 04 New
      25
      Finally, the world standard. Stylish, functional and thoughtful. Beauties. )))
      1. cniza
        cniza 9 January 2016 12: 25 New
        +8
        Soon biorobots will appear, but you still can’t replace a human, therefore, you need good equipment.
        1. remy
          remy 9 January 2016 13: 30 New
          32
          The warrior will still be better than his grandfather
          1. marlin1203
            marlin1203 9 January 2016 16: 27 New
            17
            Это "кираса" штурмовых инженерных частей, насколько помню. Грозные войска прорыва были. good
            1. shrimp
              shrimp 9 January 2016 18: 00 New
              +5
              IT WAS AN ATTACK DIVISION AT ALL
              1. Asadullah
                Asadullah 9 January 2016 18: 37 New
                17
                Here, too, the assault unit. smile Form number eight, that s * l, then we wear.
                1. robinson
                  robinson 10 January 2016 02: 14 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Asadullah
                  Here, too, the assault unit.

                  Not Assault, Raid, 181 ...
                  1. Asadullah
                    Asadullah 10 January 2016 19: 18 New
                    +1
                    Not Assault, Raid, 181 ...


                    hi Well so, you know how the raid operation differs from the assault operation? Jabs are trained for three months, Ensha changes the plan several times, coordination, everyone’s nerves are at the limit, l / s didn’t relax, twice a day they take out tables from the tents, in fact, after four months the operation is canceled, because it turns out two months back raided there ...... nothing to storm laughing
          2. Zoldat_A
            Zoldat_A 9 January 2016 23: 36 New
            +4
            Quote: remy
            The warrior will still be better than his grandfather

            Мы и в этих "дедушках" воевали так, что внучкам всегда будет, чему у нас поучиться. Воюют-то не экзоскелеты, а люди. Хотя, конечно, разговору нет - налокотники и наколенники на камнях - вещь великая... Да и в неуставном бушлате и разных вшивниках ночью в горах куда приятней, чем в "вате". И "скороварку" на голову цеплять никакого интереса - куда удобнее в прыжковых шлемаках. Но на БВ не каждый день, конечно, так что приходилось и в "скороварке" голову погреть...
      2. pilot8878
        pilot8878 9 January 2016 12: 30 New
        +3
        I don’t recognize what kind of barrel the second fighter has? In appearance, as if all plastic. Maybe someone tell me?
        1. Dam
          Dam 9 January 2016 12: 44 New
          +8
          It looks like an Orsis 5000. And a plastic multifunctional box, there are so many on what kind of weapon. True, I do not see the shutter in the photo. It seems that they are just posing with what they have to.
          1. APASUS
            APASUS 9 January 2016 14: 38 New
            +3
            Quote: Damm
            It looks like an Orsis 5000. And a plastic multifunctional box, there are so many on what kind of weapon. True, I do not see the shutter in the photo. It seems that they are just posing with what they have to.

            This is Orsis T-5000, only the box was never plastic there, it’s aluminum
            The stock is made of aluminum alloy D16T, the folding unit is made of hardened stainless steel and is specially designed so as not to “break” during operation in the most stringent calibres of impact, plastic parts are made from the highest strength polymers, all joints are only steel to steel ”, For this purpose steel parts are specially installed in the box.
            1. Dam
              Dam 9 January 2016 15: 54 New
              +6
              Thank you, but I have t 5000. Everything that you write is very cool. But if you want about the jambs, then I can send a photo of the broken shutter handle. It is mounted on two small 3mm bolts, falls off at a time. And I was lucky with a red-hot thread, on which the shutter ball sits, broke it with my hand. True, you need to pay tribute to the plant, sent for free in 5 days. True, I had to play when installing, there is a hole for the fuse pin, it was combined after re-grooving. And the bed is aluminum, covered with plastic, so you can say so and so. But it shoots perfectly.
              1. Kvazar
                Kvazar 11 January 2016 15: 25 New
                0
                You can’t forbid a good life +)))
        2. zanoza
          zanoza 9 January 2016 12: 49 New
          22
          Tactical sniper rifle T-5000 ORSIS
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 9 January 2016 14: 18 New
            +4
            It is better to supply the armed forces aircraft rifle 8.
            1. newly
              newly 9 January 2016 14: 52 New
              -3
              Quote: Vadim237
              It is better to supply the armed forces aircraft rifle 8.

              And to capture ammo for her in the form of trophies?
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 9 January 2016 16: 06 New
                +5
                Cartridges for this rifle are produced in Russia.
                1. newly
                  newly 9 January 2016 16: 42 New
                  -1
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  Cartridges for this rifle are produced in Russia.

                  And can you remember the plant?
                  1. Vladimirets
                    Vladimirets 9 January 2016 19: 46 New
                    +2
                    Quote: newly
                    And can you remember the plant?

                    С середины прошлого года ОАО "НПЗ" начал делать.
            2. Vladimirets
              Vladimirets 9 January 2016 15: 53 New
              0
              Quote: Vadim237
              It is better to supply the armed forces aircraft rifle 8.

              And what exactly is better?
              1. Vadim237
                Vadim237 9 January 2016 16: 06 New
                0
                It is cheaper to manufacture.
                1. Vladimirets
                  Vladimirets 9 January 2016 16: 17 New
                  +1
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  It is cheaper to manufacture.

                  And how much is the VS-8? The photo on the network (mainly from the stand at the exhibition) shows that it is clumsily made.
        3. pilot8878
          pilot8878 9 January 2016 13: 40 New
          +2
          Thanks for the clarifications.
      3. The comment was deleted.
        1. newly
          newly 9 January 2016 13: 46 New
          -41
          The world standard implies the arming of soldiers with full automatic weapons (fully SMG). Today there are several main options:
          1. This is an individual weapon on a 5,56 × 45 mm M193 cartridge with a barrel length of approximately 508 mm.
          2. This is an individual weapon on a 5,56 × 45 mm M855 cartridge with a barrel length of approximately 440 mm.
          3. This is an individual weapon on a 5,45 × 39 mm cartridge (3,4 g bullet) with a barrel length of approximately 590 mm. I warn you right away, RPK74 is not suitable here, the balance is not the same.
          Something I do not see such weapons. Maybe it is, but terribly secret?
          1. Corporal Valera
            Corporal Valera 9 January 2016 14: 17 New
            32
            Quote: newly
            World standard implies ... on a 5,56 × 45 mm cartridge

            This is not a world standard. This is the standard of NATO’s NedovoEnov.
            And if we talk about the world, Duc is 7,62x39 repeat
            1. newly
              newly 9 January 2016 14: 38 New
              -30
              Quote: Corporal Valera
              And if we talk about the world, Duc is 7,62x39

              Why write on topics in which you do not understand anything? In about 10 years, these 7,62x39 mm can only be read in special references. And collectors buy expensive.
              Quote: Corporal Valera
              This is not a world standard.

              This is a world standard. It is based on human physiology. There simply cannot be another (normal) one.
              1. Flooding
                Flooding 9 January 2016 15: 34 New
                18
                Quote: newly
                The world standard implies the arming of soldiers with full automatic weapons (fully SMG).

                Misfortune and only. AK does not meet international standards. Urgent need to change to G36 or FAMAS.
                Quote: newly
                This is a world standard. It is based on human physiology.

                Tell me, not far. Do these global standards apply to the Chinese and Vietnamese? After all, physiology is one.
                1. newly
                  newly 9 January 2016 15: 43 New
                  -14
                  Quote: Flood
                  AK does not meet international standards.

                  For starters, AK, these are two completely different basic shooting systems. When you write, specify what you mean.
                  Quote: Flood
                  Do these global standards apply to the Chinese and Vietnamese? After all, physiology is one.

                  And why did you decide that these peoples have less (or more) stable central nervous system than Moldavians?
                  Here you ask a question, which immediately shows that in the subject you are not boom-boom. You don’t even know what and how is hit by a bullet. The object of defeat for you is that piece of paper on the target. But this is not so. By this you confuse sporting weapons with hunting weapons. And already army weapons, this is just a kind of hunting.
                  Read about wound ballistics on the Internet. I understand this is difficult, there is no such page on the Wiki in Russian. But maybe it is in Romanian?
                  1. Flooding
                    Flooding 9 January 2016 16: 29 New
                    20
                    Quote: newly
                    I understand this is difficult, there is no such page on the Wiki in Russian. But maybe it is in Romanian?

                    The level of American education in recent years has not added much.
                    Well, it doesn’t matter, I can explain more readily.
                    First, it’s hard for star-striped boobies to say that completely Russian people also live in Moldova, much more Russian than their former compatriots from across the ocean. And at the same time, many do not understand Romanian.
                    It is a laxative for cleansing neural connections. which some have the form of a straight segment.
                    The second - as he wrote, he answered. Maybe the respected newly referred to specific regulations and documents? No, it’s completely general and streamlined. So streamline.
                    Have you written about physiology? So I hint at the physical parameters, weight and length of the weapon.
                    Think, analyze, formulate more precisely.
                    1. The comment was deleted.
                    2. newly
                      newly 9 January 2016 17: 08 New
                      -17
                      Quote: Flood
                      it’s hard for star-striped boobies to understand

                      Who is this? Not you?
                      Quote: Flood
                      completely Russian people also live in Moldova

                      In Moldova LIVED people who considered themselves (and were often) Russian. After 1992 they all gradually disappeared from there. Only Bessarabian Romanians remained (they are Moldavians in the USSR). If not by blood, then by conviction.
                      Остальное на уровне "тр-ля-ля, я свой, помогите мне материально".
                      The foregoing does not apply to Transnistria and Gagauzia, everything is more complicated there.
                      Quote: Flood
                      No, it’s completely general and streamlined. So streamline.

                      You wrap it around. All the same, you cannot understand what is at stake.
                      Quote: Flood
                      So I hint at the physical parameters, weight and length of the weapon.

                      Which one? Vietnamese or Chinese? Do not turn around, you can’t.
                      1. Flooding
                        Flooding 9 January 2016 18: 04 New
                        13
                        Quote: newly
                        In Moldova LIVED people who considered themselves (and were often) Russian. After 1992 they all gradually disappeared from there.

                        Tell someone else about it, expert on all matters.
                        I was born 43 years ago in the Moldavian SSR and have lived here for at least 38 years;
                        Quote: newly
                        Which one? Vietnamese or Chinese? Do not turn around, you can’t.

                        In this case, we are talking about the physical parameters of a fighter. Which is almost the same for the Chinese and Vietnamese.
                      2. newly
                        newly 9 January 2016 18: 20 New
                        -11
                        Quote: Flood
                        I was born 43 years ago in the Moldavian SSR and have lived here for at least 38 years

                        I have nothing to do with your conception. And I don’t understand what claims to me?
                        Quote: Flood
                        In this case, we are talking about the physical parameters of a fighter. Which is almost the same for the Chinese and Vietnamese.

                        Я вас понял. Вы не знаете, что такое ЦНС. От этого и рассуждения о физических параметрах бойцов. Это центральная нервная система. Качественное охотничье (в т.ч. армейское) оружие "настраивается" именно на ее поражение с заданной дистанции. Для обычного вооружения стрелкового отделения это 400-450 метров. При этом существует масса других образцов вооружений, которые "настраиваются" на дистанции от 25 м и до совершенно экзотических снайперских образцов. Все это оружие уже лет 70 как в мире подробно описано и разложено по своим "полочкам". Странно другое, почему на этом сайте никто не в курсе очевидных вещей? А если не в курсе, то зачем пишут комментарии?
                      3. The comment was deleted.
                      4. Flooding
                        Flooding 9 January 2016 18: 23 New
                        +7
                        Quote: newly
                        I have nothing to do with your conception. And I don’t understand what claims to me?

                        Verbiage, is it about that? Why turn on a fool and try to nag.
                        What is incomprehensible to you from what is written?
                        That I understand the situation from here much better than you know what the hell out of the American backwoods?
                      5. The comment was deleted.
                      6. newly
                        newly 9 January 2016 18: 54 New
                        -9
                        Quote: Flood
                        That I understand the situation much better from here

                        And I think I'm better than her, i.e. I understand the situation. If you are still there (already 23 years old, almost an entire generation), then you are a Bessarabian Romanian. Mentally. Those. actually.
                        Quote: Flood
                        What is incomprehensible to you from what is written?

                        And what is not clear to you? He wrote everything in an extremely understandable language.
                        Quote: Flood
                        You can not continue. All questions have disappeared by themselves.

                        And then. You probably never heard such words. Nothing, self-educate and after a year or two pull yourself up. We will discuss in more detail.
                      7. Flooding
                        Flooding 9 January 2016 19: 07 New
                        +7
                        Quote: newly
                        And I think I'm better than her, i.e. I understand the situation. If you are still there (already 23 years old, almost an entire generation), then you are a Bessarabian Romanian. Mentally.

                        You can’t even imagine how far from reality you are. If simplification helps perception - a flag in hand. But in any case, for conclusions, you need to own the texture.
                        Quote: newly
                        You probably never heard such words. Nothing, self-educate and after a year or two pull yourself up. We will discuss in more detail.

                        Sorry, I don’t understand you. And if you are flattered to see the reason in my lack of intellectual development - I will not disappoint.
                      8. newly
                        newly 9 January 2016 19: 41 New
                        -7
                        Quote: Flood
                        And if you are flattered to see the reason in my lack of intellectual development - I will not disappoint.

                        In fact, the level of human intellectual development is not determined by the level of knowledge in such a fairly narrow field as ballistics. Therefore, I had nothing of the kind in mind.
                        Я имел в виду, что в таких случаях принято интересоваться тем, что не понятно. А не писать "колкие комментарии".
                      9. sharp-lad
                        sharp-lad 9 January 2016 20: 27 New
                        +5
                        Один вопрос. Как могут пользоваться нестандартными патронами и стволами воины НАТО? И патронов, и стволов не попадающих под описанные вами стандарты там не мало! Про физиологию: а) получив прокол, например мягкой части ноги, диаметром 5,6 мм. солдат быстро возвращается в строй, а зачастую и не покидает его. б) получив в тоже место 12,7 мм. "дуру" - хорошо если донесут до хирурга, военная карьера стопроцентно окончена.
                      10. newly
                        newly 9 January 2016 20: 54 New
                        -1
                        Quote: sharp-lad
                        How can NATO warriors use non-standard cartridges and barrels?

                        А где вы их видите? Патроны стандартные. Везде написано "от". Это означает "не менее".
                        Quote: sharp-lad
                        About physiology: a) having received a puncture, for example, of the soft part of the leg, with a diameter of 5,6 mm. a soldier quickly returns to duty, and often does not leave him

                        Get a hip piercing with a diameter of 5,56 mm will not work. A bullet of this caliber is not classic, so the wound can be very serious. With a quality hit (not through, not tangentially) at least, the soldier will lose his leg. If the hit is closer than about 400 (M16A1) or 450 (M16A2) meters, then most likely he will die.
                        Хотя, есть способ снизить воздействие. Это перед боем вмазать водки, можно немного. Да-да, те самые "фронтовые 100 грамм". Их специально давали солдатам для снижения ПБЧ (а чего только на эту тему не вычитаешь в интернете). При ранении это может спасти жертве жизнь. Главное, не переборщить.
                        Еще есть нации с генетически заниженным ПБЧ. Много "мелочей", другими словами.
                      11. Dam
                        Dam 9 January 2016 22: 25 New
                        +8
                        And here you are wrong. A puncture from 223 is rarely obtained, the bullet is fragmented and the wound is very extensive. In addition, the working speed of small calibers (223 and 5,45 * 39) is higher than 1000 m / s and the pulsating cavity is very large, which in practice leads to necrosis of 5-8 cm of tissue around the wound canal. Our 5,45 * 39 is also not a gift, according to the production technology, the bullet has a small cavity and, when it enters the body, rotates like a yule. From here came the legend of the pool with a displaced center of gravity. True, after hitting 12,7 mm, nobody needs to be carried anywhere. This is the arrival of the polar fox, regardless of the place of impact.
                      12. newl
                        newl 9 January 2016 22: 36 New
                        -7
                        Quote: Damm
                        A puncture from 223 is rarely obtained, the bullet is fragmented and the wound is very extensive.

                        Ohhhh. Colossal. I am amazed. Supplement your (and my humble) statements with a picture as well. To be clear, cut to 15 mm thickness of the carcass. Thicker than a solid, it still does not happen.
                        Легко видно, что "мал клоп, да вонюч".
                      13. Dam
                        Dam 9 January 2016 22: 51 New
                        +7
                        Now let's talk about the disadvantages of this caliber:
                        1 Working distance 300m, then the bullet is very prone to wind drift.
                        2 Extremely low penetration of a bullet through an obstacle.
                        3 The bullet is re-stabilized and breaks off the path even from contact with a tree branch
                        4 Body armor 5 and above holds a bullet with a guarantee of 50 m.
                        Pros:
                        1 light weight and correspondingly greater wearable ammunition
                        2 low recoil, which improves aiming
                        There is no absolute weapon. And all of the above applies equally to 223 and the Orthodox 5,45. * 39
                      14. newl
                        newl 9 January 2016 23: 09 New
                        -11
                        Quote: Damm
                        Working distance 300m, then the bullet is very prone to wind drift.

                        Who told you this? It is not necessary to apply the norms of a poor AK-47 sawn-off shotgun so widely. For normal small arms on an open sight, the norm is 400-450 m.
                        Quote: Damm
                        2 Extremely low penetration of a bullet through an obstacle.

                        Use an armor-piercing bullet. A better anti-tank gun. Understand that you cannot make a weapon that will be good in everything. There will certainly be weaknesses.
                        Quote: Damm
                        The bullet is re-stabilized and breaks off the trajectory even from contact with a tree branch

                        Rather, it is weakly stabilized. On purpose. If your bullet has left the branch, I recommend shooting again. Simple and tasteful.
                        Quote: Damm
                        Bulletproof vest 5 and above holds a bullet with a guarantee of 50m.

                        No problem. Shoot the limbs. If you hit your thigh, for example, you will never be GUARANTEED anymore. At least in the army, for sure.
                        Quote: Damm
                        light weight and, accordingly, greater wearable ammunition

                        This is just rubbish. Minor factor.
                        Quote: Damm
                        low recoil, which improves aiming

                        No not like this. A small recoil impulse allows you to generally conduct aimed automatic fire without a machine and bipod. Those. it is possible in principle. But from AK-47, for example, it is not possible. Only at close (submachine gun) distances. Next figs get. What for needed such a machine?
                        Quote: Damm
                        There is no absolute weapon.

                        How to say. M16A4 is very close to ideal. High-quality weapons at 5,45x39 mm are just about to appear. At the same time, I always note that the AK-74 ballistic is not so bad. But today it can and should be improved. Somewhere here on the branch I already wrote, it is necessary to extend the trunk to 500-505 mm. In this case, the n / s of the bullet will increase somewhere to 940 m / s. The recoil momentum will increase by 3 and a quarter%. And in this form, the competition should be held. Who will make a balanced and reliable design, that product and run in a series. Yes, fully SMG will not work, you need to change the cartridge, but this is not serious. But fully SMG - (fully SMG minus) can be obtained. And that would be very, very good.
                      15. Dam
                        Dam 9 January 2016 23: 35 New
                        18
                        Убоги тут только ваши потуги. А так, берём баллистический калькулятор , вводим параметры 223 патрона, ветер 5мс и смотрим ветровой снос. А так , у меня в активе два убитых ствола 223 калибра и настрелял из него больше 10 000. Так , что вы сказки читайте дальше. Можно попасть на 400 м очередью по мишени, только есть разница между уверенным поражением цели, и случайным накрытием малоразмерной цели путём сжигания магазина патронов. Перестабилизированной является пуля из за малого веса, излишней крутизны нареза и слишком большой скорости. Так что именно перестабилизирована. По поводу "стреляйте в конечности" , воин диванный, разглядите конечности сперва на 400 метров то. Это <!--filter:-->блин<!--/filter-->, не контр Страйк. Малый импульс позволяет в первую очередь удерживать ствол на линии прицеливания, во вторую стрелок меньше устаёт и точнее дольше работает. Ещё раз, для разнообразия, бросьте игрушки и идите на стрельбище, очень многие вопросы сами собой сниматься. А по поводу убогого 7,62 на 39 , будете в Питере, на спор на хороший виски попаду на 250м в тарелочку для спортинга с 2 патронов. Как то так. Удачи в контр страйке
                      16. newl
                        newl 10 January 2016 01: 40 New
                        -15
                        Quote: Damm
                        Sorry here only your attempts.

                        No need to be rude. I also know how to do it well.
                        Quote: Damm
                        5ms wind and watch the wind drift

                        So what? Lateral correction can not be done in any way? when does the wind war stop?
                        Quote: Damm
                        I have two 223-caliber barrels that I killed and I shot more than 10 from it.

                        Learn to care. And do not clean with crushed bricks. The whole world is happy, you alone complain.
                        Quote: Damm
                        only there is a difference between a sure hit of the target, and accidentally covering a small target by burning a magazine of cartridges.

                        I did not understand the depth of thought.
                        Quote: Damm
                        По поводу "стреляйте в конечности" , воин диванный, разглядите конечности сперва на 400 метров то.

                        Sofa warrior, it's you. At 400 m, getting into the limbs is exactly as likely as entering the body.
                        Quote: Damm
                        A small pulse allows you to primarily keep the barrel on the line of sight

                        Что значит "малый импульс"? Для чего малый? Если нет стабилизированной автоматики, то для прицельного ведения автоматического огня этот импульс должен быть очень мал. А от этого оружие будет слишком слабым (АК-74).
                        Quote: Damm
                        drop the toys and go to the shooting range,

                        In fact, if you want to understand ballistics, it’s better to go to the morgue. Somewhere in a warring country. And going to the shooting range is stupid. There is nothing interesting there.
                        Quote: Damm
                        at 250m in a sporting plate with 2 rounds

                        No, not a ride. The norm is 400 m. It’s not easy to get in, it’s guaranteed to destroy the enemy. On a cartridge of 7,62x39 mm this can not be done. The final energy, weight, and ballistic coefficient are small. bullets. this weapon was not just asked from the SA with a knee in the ass.
                      17. Dam
                        Dam 10 January 2016 02: 24 New
                        10
                        Problem 223 is that a bullet further than 300 m is very unstable. The wind in the war, as in the world, is very unstable, but with heavier ammunition at these distances this will not significantly affect, you can use the average corrections. With light ammunition, this is almost impossible or very difficult. The depth of thought is simple: one shot, one corpse, or at least 300. Otherwise, it’s firing in that direction (Arabs really like to raise a machine gun and shoot above the fence without seeing where). Small recoil momentum has a small-caliber 223 cartridge in comparison with the intermediate or rifle. The AK 74 will fly at least 400 J on the 400 meters you describe, 200 will be enough for a person. It’s another matter that it, as well as your favorite Arch, will have difficulties with hit accuracy. I was in the morgues while studying, and I had a chance to heal the shot ones quite a lot in the years 90-2000. Everything regarding the features of the damaging effect of these two calibers, I described above. There are no fundamental differences between them. For those who go to the morgues, the diameter of the plate is 12 cm. On the Rostov target at 300 m I will get from one shot (my weapon, or preliminary shooting). I’ll get to 400 m along a fixed growth line with 10-15 rounds in bursts of 3. This is considered insufficient for a war, 308 or 7,62 * 54 will get from one of two shots. And nobody canceled the stupid copying of someone else's dubious experience in the CA. This is my personal opinion, not claiming the truth
                      18. newl
                        newl 10 January 2016 02: 49 New
                        -10
                        Quote: Damm
                        Problem 223 is that a bullet further than 300 m is very unstable

                        What is the matter with her? Does the stabilizer drop out?
                        In fact, do not invent problems.
                        Quote: Damm
                        but with heavier ammunition at these distances this will not affect significantly, you can use the average corrections

                        Heavy, i.e. rifle, ammunition today naughty at 600 m and beyond. And quite naturally they don’t play it with light ammunition.
                        Quote: Damm
                        At AK 74, at least 400 J will fly at 400 meters described by you, 200 is enough for a person

                        Actually, even 500 with a penny. But energy is not everything. The weight of the bullet, the type of bullet is still important, if the bullet is classic, then its caliber and ball. odds And only by collecting all these factors together can we say whether it’s enough for a person or not.
                        Quote: Damm
                        Everything regarding the features of the damaging effect of these two calibers, I described above. There are no fundamental differences between them.

                        Between what? 5,45 and 5,56? There are few differences, the type of bullet is the same. 5,45 and 7,62? There are differences in the sea, because the type of bullets is different.
                        Quote: Damm
                        At 400 m I’ll hit a stationary growth with 10-15 rounds in bursts of 3

                        I'm already confused. What are you going to get from? If still out of 7.62x39 mm, then do not tell.
                        Quote: Damm
                        And nobody canceled the stupid copying of someone else's dubious experience in the CA.

                        I hope you are about the AK-47? Then everything is right.
                        But with the AK-74, an attempt to copy the M16A1, is another story. Then they did the maximum that they could then. The power of the cartridge and the recoil momentum had to be reduced, because weapon automation was poorly balanced. Therefore, the ammunition of the cartridge was selected taking into account the accuracy of automatic fire according to the residual principle. The result is what happened. In principle, for CA it was a great progress. She had never seen a weapon like the AK-74 before. Fairly solid SMG (automatic) with the ballistics of an assault rifle +. No, of course I would like to have an SMG with the ballistics of an automatic rifle, i.e. fully SMG. But then in the USSR it was impossible. Not shmogli.
                    3. bravo-fab
                      bravo-fab 10 January 2016 15: 39 New
                      0
                      you don’t mean anything both in VPN and in weapons, you probably never fired, you didn’t shoot weapons at the firing range ...
                    4. lnew
                      lnew 10 January 2016 17: 34 New
                      -3
                      Quote: bravo-fab
                      you do not mean anything both in VPN and in weapons

                      in this life I am only held back by the realization that you understand this. Well, at least you think so.
                      Too bad you're wrong.
                2. yehat
                  yehat 12 January 2016 08: 09 New
                  +1
                  250m ???
                  Yes, at such a range, you can get into a plate from a small-caliber tozovka without optics. the range is NOT serious.
                  at least I remember how at school they shot at 3 penny coins from 150 meters. I got into it about 50% after shooting.
                  about the limbs.
                  they can still be seen, but human limbs tend to move. At a range of 400, a bullet flies for at least a second and during this time an arm or leg can easily leave the line of sight. That is why it is undesirable to shoot in the limbs.
                  Further, the legs are usually DOWN and partially hidden by the landscape, so shooting them is not very nice. A hand (ordinary) is two times thinner than a foot and 5 times thinner than a body, therefore, for a guaranteed hit, choose a body.
                  And I remind you that for SVD when shooting at the hull it is believed that the distance of guaranteed destruction is up to 300m.
                  Therefore, to shoot from 250 meters even in motionless limbs in 95% of cases is simply risky and unprofessional.
              2. pilot8878
                pilot8878 10 January 2016 01: 11 New
                +8
                Quote: newl
                Quote: Damm
                light weight and, accordingly, greater wearable ammunition

                Quote: newl
                This is just rubbish. Minor factor.

                There is such an expression in Russia: there are either very few or few rounds of ammunition, but no longer raise them. In a raid, this is a very significant factor.
                Quote: newl
                A small recoil impulse allows you to generally conduct aimed automatic fire without a machine and bipod.

                I propose to show how you do it on the notorious 400 meters and how the result differs from 7,62 or 5,45.
                Quote: newl
                M16A4 is very close to ideal.

                Что же "суперсолдаты" стараются АК затрофеить при малейшей возможности?
                Да, и поясните пожалуйста, как вы на 400 метрах прямо по ЦНС попадаете? Тут по грудной-то мишеньке некоторые бойцы долго тренируются, пока результат не появится. "В дыму, в пылу" когда по тушке попал - уже хорошо.
              3. newl
                newl 10 January 2016 02: 08 New
                -15
                Quote: pilot8878
                on the notorious 400 meters and how the result differs from 7,62 or 5,45.

                Go to the shooting range. There you will immediately understand what the conversation is about.
                Quote: pilot8878
                Что же "суперсолдаты" стараются АК затрофеить при малейшей возможности?

                Did you come up with this yourself? What other bike tell?
                Quote: pilot8878
                how do you get straight at the central nervous system at 400 meters?

                And the central nervous system, is this a point in humans? Type of solar plexus?
                No, well, they won’t let me die serious. Mock to death.
                Quote: pilot8878
                "В дыму, в пылу" когда по тушке попал - уже хорошо.

                This is where the central nervous system is located. FOR ALL. She has such receptors there. Feolant color. Didn’t you notice on yourself? Take a closer look.
              4. atakan
                atakan 10 January 2016 10: 48 New
                +3
                It happens that you want to minus only for the fact that individual trolls are messing around here simultaneously from 5-7 countries.
              5. lnew
                lnew 10 January 2016 17: 38 New
                -1
                Quote: atakan
                It happens that you want to minus

                What's this. This is bullshit. Worse if you want to shoot. And it will want. If people like you do not stop at an early stage.
            2. alexej123
              alexej123 10 January 2016 12: 35 New
              +4
              Я не минусую принципиально - у каждого своя точка зрения. Мне кажется вы только в тирах и подковывались. Вы в реальных, хотя бы учениях, участвовали? Вы с людьми, прошедшими боевые столкновения беседовали? Понахватались вершков и пытаетесь умничать. Так вот, у меня знакомые ребята участвовали в боевых действиях в Чечне, не призывники. По их словам, когда была возможность, то меняли 5,45 на 7,62. А насчёт "лучшеговмирем4", то посмотрите на кадры из Сирии, Ирака, Ливии. В кадрах что видите? Соотношение калашей к матрасным изделиям будет примерно 10 к 1. Почему? Почему калаши на гербах стран? А как же продукция Кольта? Короче, "туфту" не парьте.
            3. lnew
              lnew 10 January 2016 17: 47 New
              -4
              Quote: alexej123
              It seems to me that you are only at shooting ranges and are well-versed. Have you participated in real, at least exercises? Have you talked to people who went through military clashes?

              Знаете, чем "советывание" со спецназовцами отличается от советований с дворником? Дворник не сможет навредить своими советами.
              The development of high-quality weapons is not at all those who have or do not have combat experience. This experience in such a case is completely useless. The development of weapons (di and generally high-quality products) is often done by pot-bellied and bald bespectacled people. Often with unwashed hair. In stretched sweaters and in trousers with bubbling knees. A commando with combat experience can only help at the stage of ergonomics. Handle tilt, hook size, etc. In all other cases, it is simply not needed. Extra he is there.
              Quote: alexej123
              According to them, when there was an opportunity, they changed 5,45 to 7,62.

              So what? Was there a full-scale war? There was a police special operation. And in such cases, the weapon can be anything.
              Quote: alexej123
              look at the footage from Syria, Iraq, Libya. What do you see in the frames? The ratio of Kalash to mattress products will be approximately 10 to 1. Why?

              Because it's expensive. Quality things are expensive.
              Quote: alexej123
              Why Kalash on the arms of countries?

              Не смешите меня этими "странами".
            4. alexej123
              alexej123 11 January 2016 08: 49 New
              0
              Во первых - я не "советовался". БЫВАЛЫЕ люди просто рассказывали.
              Secondly - so does it mean that there was no war in Chechnya?
              Thirdly - you contradict yourself - then you have the same hunting and war. Now police special operations and military operations are different.
              "Качественная вещь" обладает надёжностью или нет? Или вы предлагаете аутсорсинг вызывать во время боевых действий?
            5. lnew
              lnew 11 January 2016 12: 19 New
              0
              Quote: alexej123
              EXPERIENCED people just told.

              Еще раз повторяю, "бывалые люди" в области стрелковки выглядят не так, как вы думаете. Они зачастую очкастые и пузатые. На спецназовцев не похожи.
              Quote: alexej123
              If you contradict yourself - then you have the same hunt and war.

              Do not distort. I did not write about the process, but about weapons. The fact that army weapons is a special case of hunting.
              Quote: alexej123
              "Качественная вещь" обладает надёжностью или нет?

              Possesses. That's how the M16 is. No wonder it is used in 80 countries. Kalashnikov is far from that.
              And here is what the developers of Kalashnikov write about in their patent WO 99/05467 about their weapons:
              "The disadvantage of this model is low reliability (low reliability), weapon failures when used in extreme climatic and extreme conditions, low accuracy of fire, and insufficiently high operational characteristics."
              Quote: alexej123
              А "лишним спецназовцем" при разработке оружия вообще УБИЛИ.

              I did not understand this stern thought.
              Quote: alexej123
              u well, that's why mattresses and hrenachat are everywhere.

              Да-да. И сидят эти "захреначенные матрасники" себе там за океаном тихонечко. Переживают, как сильно их захреначили. И главное, везде.
              Quote: alexej123
              Can you tell me what kind of weapon the Israelis used as a basis in the development of this rifle?

              I will prompt. Valmet model Rk.95TP chambered for 5,56 × 45 mm. This Valmet, it was made on the basis of the AK-47. So Galil can be considered the granddaughter of Kalashnikov. Seventh water on jelly, in fact. At the same time, Galil was never made under Soviet ammunition. This is not a plus, it is a plus of this weapon. But the Israelites refused Galil. In favor of the M16. It turned out to be more reliable and cheaper.
              By the way, AK-12 is also not the same Kalashnikov, which is Kalashnikov. Something like Valmet, i.e. relative. But on the Soviet cartridge.
            6. alexej123
              alexej123 11 January 2016 13: 37 New
              0
              They do not sit across the ocean — in Iraq, in Afghanistan — they sit and whine like their asses, which thoughtless clowns from politics put in there, pulled back.
              И, значит и финны и израильтяне всё таки АК использовали? "Внучка" не в счёт - в счёт идея, концепция.
              А насчёт 80 стран - Россия не та страна, которая "нагибает" своих "партнёров" и "союзников" для покупок всего российского. Я вам открою "страшную тайну" - явное и открытое ружейное лобби. Не сталкивались с таким? Это кстати и о коррупции - "у кого больше, у кого длиннее". А Египет какое стрелковое оружие использует? А части пакистанской армии?
              Знаете, вы похожи на "напёрсточника" - "кручу, верчу - объегорить хочу".
            7. newl
              newl 11 January 2016 14: 13 New
              +1
              Quote: alexej123
              They do not sit across the ocean - in Iraq, in Afghanistan - they sit and whine like their asses

              Oh, whine. Oh, cry. Kirdyk them there. Full kirdyk.
              Where is the information so scary?
              Quote: alexej123
              И, значит и финны и израильтяне всё таки АК использовали? "Внучка" не в счёт - в счёт идея, концепция.

              No, of course, it doesn’t count. Therefore, ZIS-3 arr. 1942, it's just the French Canon de 75 modèle 1897 arr. 1987 And what? The granddaughter does not count as you write.
              What is common between the ZIS-3 and the Canon de 75 modèle 1897? That's about the same with Galil. Walmet on the cartridge of 7,62x39 mm still had some similarities. Just because of the cartridge. But how many were those Valmetov? The Finnish army cannot be called numerous. Yes, and when was it?
              Quote: alexej123
              Россия не та страна, которая "нагибает" своих "партнёров" и "союзников" для покупок всего российского.

              Речь не о России, а о СССР. Который раздаривал АК-47 всем желающим за обещания дружбы и поставок бананов. Денег от таких "обещателей" получить было непросто.
              Quote: alexej123
              What kind of small arms does Egypt use? And parts of the Pakistani army?

              Why are you doing this? To the rain?
              Quote: alexej123
              Знаете, вы похожи на "напёрсточника" - "кручу, верчу - объегорить хочу

              Вот как раз себя описали. Аргументов у вас нет ни одного, зато много "эмоций".
      4. alexej123
        alexej123 11 January 2016 08: 52 New
        +1
        А "лишним спецназовцем" при разработке оружия вообще УБИЛИ. Ну ну, поэтому матрасников и хреначат везде. Поэтому "КАРАУЛ - НАТО, Коалиции, вы где?" и кричите. Ну поделом.
      5. alexej123
        alexej123 11 January 2016 08: 58 New
        0
        А насчёт стран - подскажите, до недавних пор Израильские вооружённые силы использовали винтовку "Галил". Вы не подскажите, какое оружие израильтяне как основу использовали при разработке этой винтовки? М16?
      6. aaz
        aaz 12 January 2016 14: 08 New
        0
        A police operation is in your country with blacks. Pardon-African-Americans, disassemblies .... fool quickly, and say that you raised the slingshot to shoot at valiant cops.
      7. lnew
        lnew 12 January 2016 15: 19 New
        0
        Quote: aaz
        A police operation - this is in your AI with blacks. Pardon-African-Americans, disassemblies ....

        Any clash, one of the parties of which are irregular units (Afghan mujahideen, partisans, etc.) is called a police operation.
  2. The comment was deleted.
  3. pilot8878
    pilot8878 10 January 2016 18: 51 New
    +5
    Quote: newl
    And the central nervous system, is this a point in humans? Type of solar plexus?
    No, well, they won’t let me die serious. Mock to death.

    In order not to exercise for a long time, I will quote the wiki:
    Central nervous system (CNS) - the main part of the nervous system of animals (including humans), consisting of neurons and their processes; ... presented ... in vertebrates (including humans) - by the spinal cord and brain.

    The central nervous system is therefore called - CENTRAL. And what you are trying to be clever is called the PERIPHERAL Nervous System. This is even known to me, a person far from medicine. And you, as a major specialist in this field, are generally ashamed to be so confused in terminology.

    Quote: pilot8878
    on the notorious 400 meters and how the result differs from 7,62 or 5,45.


    Quote: newl
    Go to the shooting range. There you will immediately understand what the conversation is about.


    You had to shoot from these calibers, you know. Therefore, I am interested in how you manage to conduct aimed automatic fire at 400 meters. Particularly pleasing:
    Quote: newl
    At 400 m, getting into the limbs is exactly as likely as entering the body.

    Let me advise you: when you go into a community where, if not every first, then certainly every third AK so abused for several years lived, ate, slept, not to mention the direct use for its intended purpose, first familiarize yourself with the object you are hailing not only on photos on the Internet. Shoot, run, clean, run again, shoot more (however, you can not clean - AK will forgive). And then in the same rhythm with the M16. In conditions far from laboratory, believe me, the difference will not please you.
  4. lnew
    lnew 10 January 2016 20: 07 New
    -2
    Quote: pilot8878
    And what you are trying to be clever is called the PERIPHERAL Nervous System. This is even known to me, a person far from medicine.

    And where are the signals from the PNS? In the central nervous system or go into the sand? You have a poor understanding of the hierarchy of the human nervous system. I assure you, if you pinch your nose (or finger) with a door, then a signal about this will come to your brain in a strange way. And already he will decide what to do next.
    Quote: pilot8878
    Therefore, I am interested in how you manage to conduct aimed automatic fire at 400 meters.

    I do not know. Probably need to train. The NSD for such an exercise brazenly provides for one turn of 3 rounds. Will you argue with NSD?
    Quote: pilot8878
    where if not every first, then certainly every third AK with you so scolded for several years lived, ate, slept, not to mention the direct use for its intended purpose, pre-familiarize yourself with the object you harass not only from photographs on the Internet

    You don’t have to live with weapons. You have to live with a woman. Primarily. A weapon is given for another. But also requires training and development. And your recommendations like clean / run here will not help. Dead end Soviet way.
    Quote: pilot8878
    And then in the same rhythm with the M16. In conditions far from laboratory, believe me, the difference will not please you.

    And then. You still compare a wooden slingshot with M16. She, too, will clearly be easier. But what about combat effectiveness?
    And one more thing. Less pathos. And then with the materiel you have really bad. But you learned to cheat cheeks. Better the other way around.
  5. The comment was deleted.
  6. Baikal
    Baikal 9 January 2016 20: 37 New
    11
    newly, you flag is not lost?
    Will you tell a person who he is - Romanian, Moldovan or Russian?
    You don’t take much on yourself?
    Behavior worthy of mud..ka. Mentally, of course.
  7. newly
    newly 9 January 2016 20: 39 New
    -13
    Quote: Baikal
    Behavior worthy of mud..ka.

    Is that you about yourself? It seems like that. Well, what to do happens. My condolences to you.
  8. The comment was deleted.
  9. Baikal
    Baikal 9 January 2016 20: 43 New
    11
    Is America with you? laughing Go home, Yankees, you're not welcome here.
    ---
    Incidentally, thanks to the administration for the real flags! So it’s fun to observe the convulsive attempts of the sub-members to write comments from the left proxies laughing
  10. newly
    newly 9 January 2016 20: 58 New
    -9
    Quote: Baikal
    Incidentally, thanks to the administration for the real flags!

    Look at your flag. As awesomely real as everyone else.
  11. proletarian
    proletarian 9 January 2016 23: 06 New
    +5
    Не "парьтесь" уважаемый,это просто троль кстати весьма "подкован" всего за один день,а вернее будет менее чем за 12 часов "нахватался" по самые "не хочу".
  12. lnew
    lnew 10 January 2016 17: 50 New
    -4
    Quote: Baikal
    Incidentally, thanks to the administration for the real flags!

    Look at your miracle.
  13. avia1991
    avia1991 9 January 2016 21: 18 New
    13
    Quote: newly
    Is that you about yourself?

    This is exactly what Mr. himself said about himself. Neither the name nor the past .. nor the MOTHERLAND: The mess with flags speaks for itself.
    Зато полно презрительно-высокомерного отношения к "плебсу", обитающему на ВО, куда Вы заглянули, по-видимому, с целью принести "разумное, доброе, вечное"..
    NO, THANKS! "Дерьмократией", превозносимой Вашим заокеанским божком, весь мир уже сыт по горло! А уж мы, в России - тем более. И еще: прежде чем пытаться снисходительно доносить до нас информацию о ЦНС, ПБЧ и прочих истоках "превосходства" западного оружия, почерпнутую в интернете, задайте себе вопрос: and who said that the truth is written on the Internet? And at the same time take an interest in why your Venezno special forces at the first opportunity throw away the vaunted M16 - and grab the AK47?
    There is something that the Internet rubs you - but there is a harsh combat experience. Which you obviously do not have! Therefore, do not build Xperd by rewriting someone else's stool here.
  14. newl
    newl 9 January 2016 21: 26 New
    -21
    Quote: avia1991
    And at the same time take an interest in why your Venezno special forces at the first opportunity throw away the vaunted M16 - and grab the AK47?

    Сами "страсти" выдумали? Давайте, продолжайте, у вас хорошо получается.
    Quote: avia1991
    There is something that the Internet rubs you - but there is a harsh combat experience. Which you obviously do not have! Therefore, do not build Xperd by rewriting someone else's stool here.

    Have you got it? Now drink the usual glass (which one today?) And calm down. You are our experienced. In this case.
  15. avia1991
    avia1991 10 January 2016 00: 25 New
    +8
    You are our experienced.

    Бог миловал: не "ваш" я - русский!
    Quote: newl
    Have you got it?

    laughing ! ..
    Ну, собственно, что и требовалось доказать! Когда нечего внятно ответить - сразу в глухую защиту уходим, и быстренько "обличаем" оппонента в пьянстве!(Русские же все пьют беспробудно, верно?!) Ну, а чему, собственно, удивляться: at the courses in the State Department you obviously could not hear objective information .. just like on the Internet, not every infa is objectively true.
    Не парьтесь, "голубчик": не Вы первый - и не Вы последний "шпиён", которого пытаются внедрить на ВО, да "не приживается" wassat
    By the way, people! Who corrected this rating so generously, do not know? !! Три часа назад было почти -3500! А тут - почти "чистенький"! Модераторы! Ваши проделки?

    А Вам, НЕлюбезнейший, я так скажу: когда дойдет до реального боестолкновения - вот тогда и посмотрим, сколько секунд Ваши "вумные мысли" продержатся против НАШЕГО "давно списанного" Калашникова!
  16. avia1991
    avia1991 10 January 2016 00: 37 New
    +3
    Quote: avia1991
    Moderators! Your tricks?

    hi Дико извиняюсь: это повторно зарегистрировался наш субчик! Упертый, однако, "засланец" - not otherwise, the Americans were also going to impose sanctions on the US: "за подавление свободы слова амерских "засланцев"! laughing
  17. Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 10 January 2016 01: 14 New
    +6
    This type of stubbornly chasing an individual weapon from the rubric as a lousy in a bathhouse, and he just as stubbornly appears. I already got everyone with my standards. His DT machine gun is an assault rifle, and Thompson shoots at 400 m. And how many nicknames he exchanged, one god knows.
  18. newl
    newl 10 January 2016 01: 45 New
    -15
    Quote: Mordvin 3
    This type of stubbornly chasing an individual weapon from the rubric as a lousy in a bathhouse, and he just as stubbornly appears.

    Bububusenki. Why are we so angry? Peeled and we are not comfortable? Or are they just in life?
    Quote: Mordvin 3
    He has a DT machine gun is an assault rifle

    Yes? But I didn’t know about myself.
    Quote: Mordvin 3
    and Thompson shoots at 400 m

    Surprise, but not only shoots, but also destroys the enemy. Only post-war, at .45 ACP + R.
    By the way, Thompson's PP exists only in your imagination. In the USA it is called Thompson's SMG. Those. Thompson machine, if in Russian. Only on a pistol cartridge.
  19. Mordvin 3
    Mordvin 3 10 January 2016 02: 37 New
    +7
    I do not want to argue with you. Enlighten anyone else, but I know your stubborn nature well. And I'm not evil, I'm good. wassat
  20. newl
    newl 10 January 2016 02: 52 New
    -14
    Well, then go to the black list.
  21. The comment was deleted.
  22. Alekspel
    Alekspel 12 January 2016 08: 09 New
    0
    Amer’s warriors can only put pants on. And their main strength is that they live across the ocean and have never participated in any serious mess. Only the second front was opened when it was no longer necessary, but the weaklings were finished off after terrible bombardments. However, in Vietnam they got a hawalan so that McCain is still shaking with anger at the damned Russian Vietnamese. But now, again, a pussy masturbate to Russia, probably the Toleraists are forgotten. This is not Vietnam, we have a little colder. Go to Merkelikha, ask the former SS men there, if anyone is still alive, how they were led around Moscow and washed away shit after them. An enthusiasm will decrease.
    Quote: newl
    Quote: avia1991
    And at the same time take an interest in why your Venezno special forces at the first opportunity throw away the vaunted M16 - and grab the AK47?

    Сами "страсти" выдумали? Давайте, продолжайте, у вас хорошо получается.
    Quote: avia1991
    There is something that the Internet rubs you - but there is a harsh combat experience. Which you obviously do not have! Therefore, do not build Xperd by rewriting someone else's stool here.

    Have you got it? Now drink the usual glass (which one today?) And calm down. You are our experienced. In this case.
  23. lnew
    lnew 12 January 2016 09: 40 New
    +1
    Quote: Alekspel
    Go to Merkelikha, ask the former SS men there

    In. Another tantrum appeared. What, too many female hormones? Do you mean to vilify once a month?
    PS. If you are hysterical, then at least remove the boy from the avatar. It’s inconvenient for him. Even to me.
  24. newl
    newl 10 January 2016 01: 08 New
    -11
    Quote: avia1991
    Не парьтесь, "голубчик": не Вы первый - и не Вы последний "шпиён", которого пытаются внедрить на ВО, да "не приживается"

    You need to be treated. Electricity Yeah.
  25. The comment was deleted.
  26. proletarian
    proletarian 9 January 2016 23: 09 New
    +3
    Да никак "наш" свiдомий нарисовался,правда уж больно грамотен никак на грантах "отъелся".
  27. avia1991
    avia1991 10 January 2016 00: 30 New
    +5
    Quote: proletarian
    so painfully literate

    to rewrite other people's thoughts - and, it’s not the fact that close to real research - you don’t need a big mind. Well .. we’re all stupid and illiterate here, we didn’t finish the academies at West Point - where are we to the ewon level of IC perseverance! wassat
    Have you not noticed? He is trying to give us lectures! To carry, so to speak, the light of the knowledge of Good and Evil into our gray illiterate heads laughing
  28. newl
    newl 10 January 2016 00: 35 New
    -12
    Quote: avia1991
    Have you not noticed? He is trying to give us lectures! To carry, so to speak, the light of the knowledge of Good and Evil into our gray illiterate heads

    Yes, a complete scoundrel. He tries to explain to dummies how generally small arms are arranged in the world. And with what they eat it. Of course, you bastard. Dummies don’t know anything and don’t want to know. Know yourself, hysteria and curse.
  29. lnew
    lnew 10 January 2016 17: 52 New
    -2
    Quote: proletarian
    уж больно грамотен никак на грантах "отъелся".

    On grants, not on grants, but on you, Dunno, does not at all look like.
  30. The comment was deleted.
  31. lnew
    lnew 10 January 2016 17: 48 New
    -3
    Quote: Baikal
    newly, have you lost your flag?

    And you?
    Quote: Baikal
    Behavior worthy of mud..ka. Mentally, of course.

    Why are you talking about yourself?
    Although, in fact, true. That's how you behave.
  32. proletarian
    proletarian 9 January 2016 23: 00 New
    +4
    And sho you jump on different flags like a louse in a pan?
    Come evil.
  33. The comment was deleted.
  34. NEXUS
    NEXUS 9 January 2016 21: 13 New
    15
    Quote: newly
    And I think I'm better than her, i.e. I understand the situation. If you are still there (already 23 years old, almost an entire generation), then you are a Bessarabian Romanian. Mentally. Those. actually.

    Man! To say such a thing, first familiarize yourself with the history of the emergence of Romania. Write complete foolishness and at the same time look the same when saying this.
    So that you know there have been three principalities from time immemorial: Moldova, Transylvania and Wallachia. No Romania was there. There is a nationality (nation) of Moldovans, and Bessarabian Romanian is the one who comes to you when you smoke grassy mushrooms or mushrooms- you talk govorushki.
  35. newl
    newl 9 January 2016 21: 45 New
    -12
    Learn the history of Romania, man. Learn. You need. The flag obliges you.
  36. NEXUS
    NEXUS 9 January 2016 21: 49 New
    10
    Quote: newl
    Learn the history of Romania, man. Learn. You need. The flag obliges you.

    I love trolls. It’s like they grow them in one incubator and make them with one finger, and it grows crooked and growing from the hand, which, in turn, grows from the ass. And you don’t need to go to the circus. she rested on you and lay down and just went down as needed.
  37. newl
    newl 9 January 2016 23: 58 New
    -14
    Quote: NEXUS
    I love trolls.

    I don’t love them.
    You have strange addictions. Bestiality?
    Quote: NEXUS
    It’s like you are being grown in one incubator and made with one finger, and it is crooked and growing from a hand which, in turn, grows from your ass. And you don’t need to go to the circus. It is interesting at what stage of your evolution you offended nature so much that it is on you and rested and lay down and just went out of need.

    It is amazing how subtly you described your essence. And the process of its creation. It seems that you yourself participated in this. Practice incest?
  38. The comment was deleted.
  39. avia1991
    avia1991 10 January 2016 12: 15 New
    +2
    Quote: NEXUS
    Bessarabian Romanian, this is the one who comes to youwhen you smoke grassy grass

    laughing laughing !!!
    Вылезаю из-под стола, чтобы поставить Вам "Плюс"! good "Белочка" просто отдыхает! laughing
  40. Flooding
    Flooding 9 January 2016 18: 23 New
    +5
    Quote: newly
    Качественное охотничье (в т.ч. армейское) оружие "настраивается" именно на ее поражение с заданной дистанции

    You can not continue. All questions disappeared by themselves.
  41. The comment was deleted.
  42. The comment was deleted.
  43. newl
    newl 10 January 2016 02: 27 New
    -5
    Quote: Flood
    that in Moldova absolutely Russian people also live, much more Russian than their former compatriots from across the ocean.

    Quote: Flood
    I was born 43 years ago in the Moldavian SSR and have lived here for at least 38 years;

    And why are these certificates? You yourself have identified your nationality with your nickname. waterfall, same Moldovan, just back to front. For example, it would never have crossed my mind to be called Moldavian. At least backward, at least backward.
    By the way, here you are pierced. In Russian, right moldАthe van. And in Romanian, as you wrote - moldОthe van.
  44. Flooding
    Flooding 10 January 2016 09: 01 New
    0
    Quote: newl
    For example, it would never have crossed my mind to be called Moldavian. At least backward, at least backward.

    Are you expecting sympathy from me? Keep your complexes with you. This is my small homeland and I have nothing to be ashamed of.
    Quote: newl
    By the way, here you are pierced. In Russian it is correct moldavan. And in Romanian, the way you wrote is Moldova.

    Грамотей, по-русски правильно "молдаванин".
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Vladimirets
    Vladimirets 9 January 2016 16: 39 New
    14
    Quote: newly
    Read about wound ballistics on the Internet

    As you already got with this wound ballistics, it’s not the first time you get out with this bogeyman. Wound ballistics is one of the, BUT is far from the main issue in the development of new army ammunition, oddly enough it sounds. There must be a compromise of a whole range of tasks: the overall dimensions of the cartridge, its cost, the possibility of mass production, the ability to overcome protective equipment, acceptable accuracy at the design range of use, a certain unification for some types of weapons, etc.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. newly
      newly 9 January 2016 16: 52 New
      -25
      Quote: Vladimirets
      As you already got with this wound ballistics

      Uncle, in order to understand something in army (and hunting) weapons, you need to know at least the basics of 3 things, internal, external and wound ballistics.
      And without this, you can only reason at the level of the Murzilok generation and the Pinocchio generation. They are approximately similar, differ only in age. And a passion for looking at pictures.
      Quote: Vladimirets
      Wound ballistics is one of the, BUT is far from the main issue in the development of new army ammunition, oddly enough it sounds.

      Звучит действительно странно. Т.к. основная задача охотничьего (скажем так) оружия, это все же "завалить" цель. А не просто покарябать ей шкурку.
      Quote: Vladimirets
      There should be a compromise of a whole range of tasks:

      And here you are right. It is very difficult to make high-quality small arms. Yes, and the cartridge is extremely difficult. For example, in the USSR, not a single normal cartridge for small arms was adopted. And, as a result, not one model of high-quality small arms was made. Unless you can consider the samples on the old rifle cartridge. All Soviet weapons will gradually go to waste. Not right away, right away it's very expensive.
      1. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 9 January 2016 19: 24 New
        +8
        Quote: newly
        hunting (let's say) weapons

        No, uncle, the goals of hunting and army weapons are different, respectively, and the ammunition tasks are different, the only similarity is that, in the end, it is necessary to kill a biological object. Therefore, for example, hunting cartridges can be both expensive and bulky, have serious returns, etc. In addition, hunting, at least for a large beast, implies single shooting, which, in general, is akin to sniper shooting.
      2. newly
        newly 9 January 2016 19: 45 New
        -7
        Quote: Vladimirets
        perhaps the similarity is that in the end, it is necessary to kill a biological object.

        Well, thank God. I really thought not guess what I mean.
        In addition, I have repeatedly noted that army weapons are a special case of hunting weapons. With its own characteristics.
        At the same time, an army rifle, as a special case of hunting weapons, has little in common with sports weapons.
      3. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 9 January 2016 20: 02 New
        +1
        Quote: newly
        With its own characteristics.

        His features are very serious. If hunting weapons can be specialized (we say, I think, purely about a long-barreled rifled), then army (accordingly, and ammunition for it) should be as versatile as possible, within reasonable limits.
      4. Dam
        Dam 9 January 2016 22: 11 New
        +6
        For the great connoisseur of ballistics. One of the reasons for the transition to small-caliber weapons was the change in the doctrine of the defeat of manpower. A wounded adversary is preferable to a killed one, since it diverts much more resources for his evacuation and treatment. So, combat and hunting weapons have slightly different tasks.
      5. newl
        newl 9 January 2016 22: 29 New
        -15
        Quote: Damm
        A wounded adversary is preferable to a killed one, since it diverts much more resources for his evacuation and treatment.

        Читал-читал. И вообще, какой только ахинеи в интернете не вычитаешь. Но не эта байка самая моя любимая. Больше всего я люблю сказку про "дохлых японских пулеметчиков". Вот это, да. Вот это, душевно.
        А про доктрину поражения, скучно. Тем более, что вот именно "валит" противника М16А4 как раз конкретно. В этом редко кто с ней сможет конкурировать.
        The USSR was already impressed by M16A1 in Vietnam. And the weapon on the cartridge of 7,62x39 mm dismissed with a knee. And M16A2-4 is much cooler.
      6. Dam
        Dam 9 January 2016 23: 03 New
        +6
        I’m dealing with personal impressions of shooting from Ar-ki and AKmoids, and not fairy tales from neta. For sports, it is more convenient to shoot from the arch, for war only AK. Even a civilian saiga of 5,45 works an order of magnitude more reliably, my Armie Daler sport. Regarding accuracy, in a gross cartridge, both shoots almost the same 2moa arch, 3moa saiga. Just do not forget that we have these notorious MOA when shooting prepared, comfortable, from the bipod, with even breathing. And after the march, yes on adrenaline? A lot of shooters class will show? I’m ready to hide on the viskar’s box, who will show me the class after a 3km run! Yes, and excessive accuracy for automatic weapons IMHO is not needed! And the correctness of the transition to small calibers is now very many experts question.
      7. newl
        newl 9 January 2016 23: 50 New
        -11
        Quote: Damm
        I’m dealing with personal impressions of shooting from Ar-ki and AKmoids

        Ну, поймите вы наконец, не может быть у вас никаких личных впечатлений. Вы не господь бог и общаться с "подопытным материалом" не в силах. А также вы не коронер и не криминальный патологоанатом.
        Quote: Damm
        for war only AK

        M16A4 did you use?
        Quote: Damm
        And after the march, yes on adrenaline?

        But what, all battles are fought after the march-throw and on the adrenaline? On adrenaline, newcomers fight in the first battle. A march-throws in normal parts never happens at all.
        Quote: Damm
        Yes, and excessive accuracy for automatic weapons IMHO is not needed!

        Excessive, not excessive. There are dispersion standards. Weapons must satisfy them. And the categories are superfluous / not superfluous, these are their movies. Approximately, as in films about excessive armor penetration ZIS-2.
        Quote: Damm
        And the correctness of the transition to small calibers is now very many experts question.

        I do not know such specialists. There are laws of physics. If you want to get weapons fully level SMG, then you have no other choice. I will explain fully SMG is an individual weapon with a rate of 80-100 rounds per minute with an effective range of 400-450 m. almost ideal. Further shoot at an open sight, the physics of the eye does not allow. More often, it’s already LMG (handbrake).
        There are no other options and will not be. Although attempts to achieve this by other means (on the classic pool) were. And they were also undertaken by the Americans. The most famous example is Thompson's SMG (automatic) (we used to call it a submachine gun). A very interesting weapon. To begin with, it was like 2 types of weapons in one. Moreover, it all depended on the experience of a soldier. In the hands of a rookie on TTX it would be a very good automatic carbine (not to be confused with automatic short rifle). And in the hands of an experienced soldier during the war on a .45 ASR cartridge on TTX it was a weapon that was later called an assault rifle. Not real, of course, the cartridge was pistol. By "drenched" he was not childish, just at the level of assault rifles. At the same time, the balance between the StG44 and the AK-47 did not allow accurate firing of automatic fire beyond 100 m (the StG44 had a little further). And Thompson's SMG just allowed it. True, there was hemorrhoids with an entire sight.
        After the war, the Americans went further and transferred the Thompson submachine gun to the .45 ACP + R cartridge. So they got the first in the world, but again hemorrhoids in aiming, fully SMG (see above). But an inexperienced fighter could still use it only as automatic carbine. Therefore, the Americans went further and to replace Thompson's SMG made a completely new weapon, the M16A1 on the cartridge of a completely new principle of action. This was the first fully SMG in the world that even a rookie could use.
        It remains to add that today the Americans play the role of Thompson's SMG during the war M4A1. This is not the main weapon, the main weapon is the M16A4.
      8. Dam
        Dam 10 January 2016 01: 38 New
        +2
        What made it possible to shoot further 100 m with a pistol cartridge with its energy and howitzer trajectory? Have you even shot from AK? Once again, I’ll get 250 meters into the sporting plate with two rounds and I'm not a good shooter. AK 47 was developed for the ideology of its time, when the distance of contact with the enemy was assumed to be 250-300 meters. At these distances, even an Arab militia will not miss the growth target from it. In addition, he has an unprecedented penetration rate for intermediate munitions and the ability to defeat the enemy behind an obstacle, which is indispensable in urban combat. For fun, look at what the guys at Motorola and Givi fought at the Donetsk airport. (not at all from poverty, look at the rest of the equipment). And who told you that Ar-ki has a rate of fire of 100 rounds per minute? As I recall, from 750 to 900 shots. For those who are on an armored train, you generally saw specialists in the movies. We are talking about the inefficiency of using small calibers at a distance of modern combat, which increased to 500-700 m
      9. The comment was deleted.
      10. newl
        newl 10 January 2016 01: 57 New
        -7
        Quote: Damm
        What made it possible to shoot further 100 m with a pistol cartridge with its energy and howitzer trajectory?

        In fact, the range of a direct shot at the growth figure at Thomson's wartime was 190m. And the postwar 205m. The howitzer trajectory was above these numbers.
        Quote: Damm
        Once again, I’ll get 250 meters into the sporting plate with two rounds and I'm not a good shooter.

        I repeat again, but it is necessary at 400 m and in line.
        Quote: Damm
        AK 47 was developed for the ideology of its time, when the distance of contact with the enemy was assumed to be 250-300 meters.

        Не фантазируйте. Захотелось генералам получить цацку "как у немцев", и они ее получили. потом пришлось от нее избавляться и перевооружаться.
        Quote: Damm
        And who told you that Ar-ki has a rate of fire of 100 rounds per minute? As I recall, from 750 to 900 shots

        Here you confuse the rate of fire and the rate of fire. Do not be confused, confused very often.
        Quote: Damm
        you generally saw specialists in the movies. We are talking about the inefficiency of using small calibers at a distance of modern combat, which increased to 500-700 m

        You have just written about 250-300 m in Donetsk. Now 500-700 m. You have already decided what is closer to your soul.
        But seriously, as it was 450-500 m, it remained. Why so much? So that you couldn’t be sure to hit with ordinary small arms, the effective range of which (normal) is 400-450 m.
      11. Dam
        Dam 10 January 2016 02: 46 New
        +5
        Not a single pistol cartridge has a direct shot of 200m, we learn materiel. Well, there weren’t so smart among them. How are you. On that. The moment there was no weapon under the intermediate ammunition and the plug between the pros and cons of the pistol and rifle cartridge was high. The intermediate cartridge is that duck that flies and swims and walks. This is his ideology. You read poorly, I wrote about the battles in urban areas, where the Novorossiysk infantry preferred the AK47 .. And you, like all the half-educated ones, argue without citing any facts. Adjectives only. The rate of fire, I’ll ask any weapon as I need. Any experienced shooter can shoot a burst of 2-3 rounds without straining. On this I complete the conversation, for its scarcity, learn the respected materiel. It is difficult to explain to the blind what the sun is. Unlike you, I know both theory and practice. Yes, the books do not say that any barrel has a certain shot before losing accuracy. So the arka lived 8000. Saiga has already passed 10 shots. (I clean it with the most ordinary cheap oil, Ar ku licked eggs like a cat.)
      12. newl
        newl 10 January 2016 03: 06 New
        -3
        Quote: Damm
        Not a single pistol cartridge has a direct shot of 200m, we learn materiel.

        Thompson range I already wrote to you. I can also write the range of a direct shot at the growth figure of PP Danuvia 43 - 250 m. PPSh - 260 m. MP-40 - 230 m. So, you need to learn it.
        Quote: Damm
        The moment there was no weapon under the intermediate ammunition and the plug between the pros and cons of the pistol and rifle cartridge was high.

        At that time, there was a pistol, carbine, weak (or weakened) rifle (later called intermediate) and rifle cartridges. The fork was only in the open spaces of Runet. In the fantasies of sofa designers.
        Quote: Damm
        The intermediate cartridge is that duck that flies and swims and walks. This is his ideology

        Are you talking?
        Quote: Damm
        I wrote about the battles in urban areas, where the Novorossiysk infantry preferred the AK47 ..

        She could even choose a slingshot to them. comrade Tyutkina. But from this, this slingshot would not be better than the AK-74.
        Quote: Damm
        And you, like all the little dropouts, argue without citing any facts.

        Those. are you telling me different gossip right now, and should I believe that these are facts? It’s ridiculous.
        Quote: Damm
        The rate of fire, I’ll ask any weapon as I need.

        Confused again. You can set the rate of fire. The rate of fire laid constructively.
        Quote: Damm
        Unlike you, I know both theory and practice

        Of course. Therefore, constantly confusing the rate of fire with rate of fire.
        Quote: Damm
        Yes, the books do not say that any barrel has a certain shot before losing accuracy.

        Why not say? This is internal ballistics. In any book about this is written about the gradual loss of accuracy.
        Quote: Damm
        So the arka lived 8000. Saiga has already passed 10 shots. (I clean it with the most ordinary cheap oil, Ar ku licked eggs like a cat.)

        I think you fell in love with her. Or bought a used one under the guise of a new one.
  • Alekspel
    Alekspel 12 January 2016 08: 23 New
    -1
    What are you arguing with him? His goal is not to prove anything, but to circumvent you with the more infamous the better. And his purely theoretical knowledge is evident from the syllable. With such a way to deal with one. Do not mention it. And then he will stop changing flags. Or maybe there are several of them under one nickname. Spit is the worst thing for them when they do not pay attention.
  • lnew
    lnew 12 January 2016 09: 46 New
    +1
    Quote: Alekspel
    but to circumvent you the more disgusting the better.

    And then. I don’t sleep at night. I’m just thinking about it. I only dream about it.
    Quote: Alekspel
    Or maybe there are several of them under one nickname.

    Around the enemies. Precisely. The insidious enemy does not sleep.
    Lord, how are you, Pinocchio, already tired of everyone.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • purple
    purple 10 January 2016 19: 54 New
    0
    stubborn bespectacled man who has read articles on the internet. The conclusion is this, moreover, a greed for advertising.
    I will do you a favor, give advice, do not believe what they write, in practice, as a rule, it comes out very differently.
    Moreover, it is not worth building a specialist out of yourself, but I see an article prepared, NGO practice articles will not replace understand.
  • lnew
    lnew 10 January 2016 20: 19 New
    -1
    Quote: purple
    I will do you a favor, I will give advice

    It’s ridiculous. As for tips in this area.
    Quote: purple
    Yes, I see I’ve prepared for an article, NGO practice articles will not replace understand.

    Какие статейки? Есть совершенно четкие требования и критерии. Весь мир по ним живет. И уже давно делает качественное оружие. И только СССР всю дорогу пытался "изобрести велосипед".
    Yes, what can I say, an army pistol and ammunition for him appeared only in the Russian Federation. For 75 years, the USSR could not make it.
    I generally am silent about the rest of the rifleman. One propaganda.
  • alexej123
    alexej123 10 January 2016 12: 47 New
    0
    И ещё, с Аркой (ваш сленг) "прикольно сэлфи делать". Стоишь весь такой крутой, ствол в обвесах.
  • Dimachrus
    Dimachrus 10 January 2016 00: 24 New
    +7
    ABOUT! This is how to understand that? ))) The carriers of shit democracy on ducks with M16 prefer to walk?
    А если лосишка или кабанчик в перспективе - для охоты вертолёт с " вулканом" ?
    Well, the African safari immediately to A-10 apparently have to fly)))
    Write more!!! People amuse and laugh ;-)
    By the way - write the account number of denezhek you will be thrown off, you rarely find a good jester - you need to encourage!
  • newl
    newl 10 January 2016 00: 32 New
    -11
    Quote: Dimachrus
    Write more!!! People amuse and laugh ;-)
    By the way - write the account number of denezhek you will be thrown off, you rarely find a good jester - you need to encourage!

    Some kind of clown overslept after a binge.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • sharp-lad
    sharp-lad 9 January 2016 20: 40 New
    +7
    Старое "весло" 47 года рождения не так уж и плохо, я его не променял бы на новомодные калибры типа 5,45 мм. и 5,6 мм., но это для поля, меньше ветки мешать будут, а для городских разборок предпочёл бы короткий ствол калибра 9 мм., если защиту не пробьёт, то собьёт с ног и синяков под бронёй наставит!
  • newl
    newl 9 January 2016 22: 41 New
    -7
    Quote: sharp-lad
    Старое "весло" 47 года рождения не так уж и плохо

    Very bad. No I am not joking. Just awful, really. Monkey, so you also need to know who. And in what area. For the Germans in the rifleman this could not be done. If I really wanted to, it was so possible for the Czechs. They were much more authoritative comrades in this area then.
    А насчет "в городе". Давно уже придуманы пистолеты-пулеметы. Все равно боеприпасы для армейских пистолетов выпускают. Зачем добру пропадать?
  • lnew
    lnew 10 January 2016 17: 56 New
    -2
    Quote: Vladimirets
    As you already got with this wound ballistics

    But how are you going to evaluate army weapons without knowing the basics? After all, these are the basics. Without them, no way. Only by the Murzilok generation method. Those. This picture is beautiful, so the weapon is good.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Dam
    Dam 9 January 2016 22: 16 New
    +4
    Remind me that it’s not G 36 that the Germans were discontinued and are urgently refining due to the extremely large dispersion of bullets during overheating, which occurs after 25-30 shots?
  • Corporal Valera
    Corporal Valera 9 January 2016 16: 30 New
    18
    Quote: newly
    Why write on topics in which you do not understand anything?

    Well, you write! So I can wink
    In about 10 years, these 7,62x39 mm can only be read in special references. And collectors buy expensive.

    I heard that about 30 years ago. Og yes
    1. newly
      newly 9 January 2016 16: 59 New
      -15
      Quote: Corporal Valera
      Well, you write!

      Do not fantasize.
      Quote: Corporal Valera
      I heard that about 30 years ago. Og

      И еще какое-то время придется потерпеть. Миллионы стволов расстрелять, это не такое быстрое дело. Но конец все равно будет закономерным. Если уж это "оружие" из СА уже 40 лет назад выперли, то будущего у него нет. Его же только там и "культивировали". Больше "умных" не нашлось.
  • Shadowcat
    Shadowcat 9 January 2016 17: 04 New
    10
    Quote: newly
    In about 10 years, these 7,62x39 mm can only be read in special references.

    Uguk, and the fact that the Czechs and the Yankees use it is a trifle, and the hunters also do not disdain.

    Yes, and Kshshniki of the whole world are probably full - until now under 7.62 weapons are stamped. You need to advise them juicy.
    1. newly
      newly 9 January 2016 17: 25 New
      -8
      Quote: ShadowCat
      But the fact that Czechs and Yankees use it is a trifle

      Это вы сами придумали? Лично продали партию АК-74 американской армии? Сколько дали "на лапу"?
      Quote: ShadowCat
      Yes, and hunters also do not disdain

      Why disdain? Good bunny and gopher. If you get close, you’ll take a roe deer with a deer. An enemy soldier, all the more so. Bad another, for the army, such a weapon is not suitable at all. Consult with Vladimirtsa, he will explain to you why. Therefore, 40 years ago, he was dismissed in the USSR. And in other countries, those where they knew the arrow, they didn’t take them into service at all.
      Quote: ShadowCat
      still under 7.62 stamped weapons

      But not under the cartridge 7,62x39 mm. Do not distort.
      1. Shadowcat
        Shadowcat 9 January 2016 20: 41 New
        10
        This is where I caught you. We learn materiel.
        Quote: newly
        Personally sold the batch of AK-74 to the American army

        Do not disgrace. Did I say somewhere about the AK-74?
        Colt CM901, CZ 805. And I don’t remember the weapons options laced with AK.
        But if the conversation went about Kalashnikov, we look at the AK-12 (there is an option for the cartridge 7.63x39), AK-103 and AK-104. Exploiting countries see for yourself on Wikipedia.

        Quote: newly
        If you get very close

        There is such a carbine, SKS is called, with due love it hits 2km. Very close.

        Quote: newly
        But not under the cartridge 7,62x39 mm. Do not distort.

        Yes, easy: Boar, Colt CM901, CZ 805, AK-10x, AK-12, RPK-20x. 6 pieces of which 2 are new generations.

        And what are your arguments except for cries?
        1. newl
          newl 10 January 2016 00: 30 New
          -7
          Quote: ShadowCat
          Colt CM901, CZ 805

          What units and subunits are armed with options for 7.62x39 mm? The correct answer is none. Because commercial weapons are produced on everything that can be sold. And if this weapon can be sold for hunting under a hunting cartridge, it will be made. But this is not an army weapon.
          Quote: ShadowCat
          AK-103 and AK-104. Exploiting countries see for yourself on Wikipedia.

          I looked. He laughed. Kazakhstan, Armenia, India and Indonesia, this is strong. Rich countries. They do not save on arms.
          Moreover, none of them bought this weapon for the army. For special operations only. Do you understand the difference between mass army weapons and weapons for special operations?
          Quote: ShadowCat
          And I don’t remember the weapons options licked with AK.

          А с кого был слизан АК? Ведь не аутентичная конструкция. Компановка того, что уже было. Почему тогда "слизанные с АК"?
          Quote: ShadowCat
          SKS is called, with due love it hits 2km. Very close.

          And what is so modest? It was necessary to draw a toe from behind. Or two. Range of effective defeat of SKS 330 m.
          Quote: ShadowCat
          Boar, Colt CM901, CZ 805

          This is a weapon for hunting. Distort again.
          Quote: ShadowCat
          AK-10x, AK-12, RPK-20x.

          And again, distort. This is a weapon for special operations. The army is armed with 5.45x39 mm.
          Quote: ShadowCat
          And what are your arguments except for cries?

          And what could be the arguments against a complete distortion?
        2. newl
          newl 10 January 2016 00: 30 New
          -5
          Quote: ShadowCat
          Colt CM901, CZ 805

          What units and subunits are armed with options for 7.62x39 mm? The correct answer is none. Because commercial weapons are produced on everything that can be sold. And if this weapon can be sold for hunting under a hunting cartridge, it will be made. But this is not an army weapon.
          Quote: ShadowCat
          AK-103 and AK-104. Exploiting countries see for yourself on Wikipedia.

          I looked. He laughed. Kazakhstan, Armenia, India and Indonesia, this is strong. Rich countries. They do not save on arms.
          Moreover, none of them bought this weapon for the army. For special operations only. Do you understand the difference between mass army weapons and weapons for special operations?
          Quote: ShadowCat
          And I don’t remember the weapons options licked with AK.

          А с кого был слизан АК? Ведь не аутентичная конструкция. Компановка того, что уже было. Почему тогда "слизанные с АК"?
          Quote: ShadowCat
          SKS is called, with due love it hits 2km. Very close.

          And what is so modest? It was necessary to draw a toe from behind. Or two. Range of effective defeat of SKS 330 m.
          Quote: ShadowCat
          Boar, Colt CM901, CZ 805

          This is a weapon for hunting. Distort again.
          Quote: ShadowCat
          AK-10x, AK-12, RPK-20x.

          And again, distort. This is a weapon for special operations. The army is armed with 5.45x39 mm.
          Quote: ShadowCat
          And what are your arguments except for cries?

          And what could be the arguments against a complete distortion?
      2. Shadowcat
        Shadowcat 9 January 2016 20: 50 New
        +4
        Quote: newly
        And in other countries, those where they knew the arrow, they didn’t take them into service at all.

        Probably in Africa or on the islands somewhere there. Take a look at the analogues.
        Yankees: .30 Carbine (7,62 × 33 mm)
        Fritz: 7.92x33mm Kurz
        Tips: 7,62 × 39
        The three leading countries are versed in small arms technology, and KBshniki is so stupid. Or stupid someone else?
        1. newl
          newl 10 January 2016 00: 16 New
          -7
          Quote: ShadowCat
          Probably in Africa or on the islands somewhere there. Take a look at the analogues.
          Yankees: .30 Carbine (7,62 × 33 mm)
          Fritz: 7.92x33mm Kurz
          Tips: 7,62 × 39

          .30 Carbine (7,62 × 33 mm) analogue of 7,62 × 39 mm? Where did you come from? In childhood, were you sick? Is a cartridge with a bullet energy of 1314 J on a barrel an analogue of a cartridge with a bullet energy of 2019 J on a barrel of 415 mm? No. Well, a complete ignoramus in the arms. But there he climbs, he writes smart comments.
          Remind me how long and for what purpose the weapons were produced on the 7.92x33mm Kurz? Do not know? Well, as you know, come back. Make us laugh.
          Quote: ShadowCat
          The three leading countries are versed in small arms technology, and KBshniki is so stupid. Or stupid someone else?

          Where are the three leading countries? I see only one in the list, USA. And then, as it turned out, they did not produce an intermediate cartridge, but released a carbine. What is also a new word for you? At the same time study what kind of cartridges are. And what kind of weapons were on them. And I will not help you with this. I do not want.
        2. newl
          newl 11 January 2016 13: 24 New
          -1
          Quote: ShadowCat
          Fritz: 7.92x33mm Kurz

          In fact, the Germans made the MP43 to replace the very unimportant MP40. AND ONLY for panzergrenadiers (something like a tank landing, which Private Rumbled from Armpits) and huntsmen. It didn’t occur to them to arm the entire Wehrmacht (like a SA).
          Делали они ее вполне открыто, интернетовские сплетни про "втайне от Гитлера", это просто сплетни. О том, что это оружие не рассматривалось в качестве массового или основного говорит и его первоначальный индекс "MP". То, что дальше доктор Геббельс придумал StG, ну положение у немцев было такое. Только на вандервафли и оставалось рассчитывать. Лапша на уши, она во всех странах навешивается. Разница только в ее количестве.
          Like the MP or the submachine gun MP43 (and later the StG44) was very ambiguous. No, everything in him seemed to be fine. And a good density of fire at 100-110 m (the distance of submachine guns). And the option of conducting effective single fire at 300 m, which was not the case with conventional submachine guns. But the cartridge ... Too powerful for a submachine gun, but too weak for normal army weapons.
          So the Germans were right in constructing the StG44 as a weapon for special operations (panzergrenadiers and huntsmen). That's just as it was not suitable as the main army. And that is exactly what it was in the SA. In the form of AK-47 / AKM.
          Остается добавить, что желающих выпускать оружие на подобных патронах после войны больше не нашлось. Это делали только в одной "шибко продвинутой" стране (еще немного в Финляндии). Да и то, недолго.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. newly
      newly 9 January 2016 19: 52 New
      -3
      Quote: ShadowCat
      and hunters, too, do not disdain.

      Вот охотничий потенциал АК-47 с трех разных дистанций. Совершенно четко видно, что на медведя не рекомендуется ходить вовсе. А оленя с 200 м можно "взять" только при большой удаче.
      1. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 9 January 2016 20: 04 New
        +5
        Quote: newly
        hunting potential AK-47

        This is the calculation of the rangers of the Serengeti National Park? laughing Otherwise, who else would have the idea to go hunting with the AK-47?
        1. newly
          newly 9 January 2016 20: 37 New
          -2
          Quote: Vladimirets
          Otherwise, who else would have the idea to go hunting with the AK-47?

          No. This I gently hint that each living creature has its own coefficient. And man also has it.
          1. Vladimirets
            Vladimirets 9 January 2016 20: 46 New
            +5
            Quote: newly
            I gently hint that each living creature has its own coefficient.

            And I about the fact that this is a theory that has nothing in common except pseudoscientific calculations, with reality.
          2. Shadowcat
            Shadowcat 9 January 2016 20: 53 New
            +6
            Not. Well, it is written there! And if it is written like that, it is no different! (laugh)
            After all, newly (which by the way is already from three different countries) is smarter than everyone, even under its genius KB can’t pick up, everyone does not fit.
          3. newl
            newl 10 January 2016 00: 03 New
            -9
            Quote: ShadowCat
            (laugh)

            Have you tried to laugh? And to eat? Also?
            All neigh and eat. And where do you come from.
          4. Yuyuka
            Yuyuka 10 January 2016 11: 04 New
            +2
            All neigh and eat. And where do you come from.

            Пока есть такие "спецы" по словоблудию как вы, смеяться сил нет - только ржать хочется request purely verbal diarrhea with the desire to slap as many as possible around and not to miss anyone. the conclusion is that you are either an unrecognized genius, and it’s just inconvenient for us to be illiterate, or the doctor forgot to inject another injection, well, you can understand - the holidays ...
          5. lnew
            lnew 10 January 2016 18: 09 New
            -2
            Quote: Yuyuka
            either you are an unrecognized genius, and we’re just uncomfortable for our ignorance,

            Sometimes it's better to chew than talk. Especially to you. Because you have nothing to say. And the head serves solely to collect slops.
      2. The comment was deleted.
    4. newl
      newl 10 January 2016 01: 02 New
      -6
      Quote: Vladimirets
      And I about the fact that this is a theory that has nothing in common except pseudoscientific calculations, with reality.

      Theory is the foundation of reality. Weapons on a whim in the world have not been given for almost 100 years. Yes, and in the USSR for 50 years, too.
    5. The comment was deleted.
  • Shadowcat
    Shadowcat 9 January 2016 20: 45 New
    10
    Quote: newly
    А оленя с 200 м можно "взять" только при большой удаче.

    I must be silent. The next time I’ll take Pecheneg on a hunt, otherwise the zybr fell from SKSki at the time and did not know that it was nizya ...

    You know, they say that the hands should not be from the ass and the head is in place, but to hunt for each game its cartridge.
    1. newl
      newl 10 January 2016 00: 05 New
      -12
      Quote: ShadowCat
      and then from SKSki the zyubra fell in due time and did not know that nizya ..

      Yes Yes. I remember this hunt. Before that, you soaked a mammoth with a hammer. But what about. I see it myself.
      Go pack your briefcase, schoolboy. The day after tomorrow to school.
  • sharp-lad
    sharp-lad 9 January 2016 20: 49 New
    +3
    Have you tried to give a queue? My school friend sat on a point in Eastern Siberia, at night with a fright, he gave a queue to the whole store for noise in the bushes .... the elk did not leave. Although the shape and construction of the bullet (designed for penetration) is very unsuitable for hunting. And please do not mix hunting and military weapons, different goals, different implementations into one pile. hi
    1. newl
      newl 10 January 2016 01: 00 New
      -7
      Quote: sharp-lad
      Although the shape and construction of the bullet (designed for penetration) is very unsuitable for hunting.

      Expansive bullets are not necessarily used for hunting.
      Quote: sharp-lad
      And please do not mix hunting and military weapons, different goals, different implementations into one pile.

      I do not mix. But army weapons are a special case of hunting. Under the target of a certain size. + There are still a bunch of features.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • MMX
    MMX 9 January 2016 23: 04 New
    +2
    Quote: newly
    Quote: Corporal Valera
    And if we talk about the world, Duc is 7,62x39

    Why write on topics in which you do not understand anything? In about 10 years, these 7,62x39 mm can only be read in special references. And collectors buy expensive.
    Quote: Corporal Valera
    This is not a world standard.

    This is a world standard. It is based on human physiology. There simply cannot be another (normal) one.


    Понятия "мировой стандарт" в данном случае не существует.
    1. newl
      newl 9 January 2016 23: 13 New
      -9
      Quote: MMX
      Понятия "мировой стандарт" в данном случае не существует.

      Well yes. In this world, everything is standardized. Even the weapons of destruction are laid out on shelves.
      1. MMX
        MMX 10 January 2016 09: 02 New
        +1
        Quote: newl
        Quote: MMX
        Понятия "мировой стандарт" в данном случае не существует.

        Well yes. In this world, everything is standardized. Even the weapons of destruction are laid out on shelves.


        Военный стандарт, принятый государством, и "мировой стандарт" - есть разные понятия. Если вы не видите разницу, то это ваша проблема.
        Понятия "мировой стандарт" в контексте данной темы не существует.
        1. lnew
          lnew 10 January 2016 18: 15 New
          -1
          Quote: MMX
          Военный стандарт, принятый государством, и "мировой стандарт" - есть разные понятия.

          In fact, I agree. The highest standards (let's call them ideal) are not accepted everywhere. An example is the same USSR. As a mass weapon, he completely dispensed with an assault rifle (according to the TTX), although in the ideal case it would be an automatic rifle (according to the TTX).
          But there was no army pistol at all. For 75 years they did not bother to develop and adopt.
          But this approach is not true. And it was caused by the extreme backwardness of the USSR in terms of the development and implementation of small arms. Ideally, you need to set yourself the highest standards.
          Quote: MMX
          Понятия "мировой стандарт" в контексте данной темы не существует.

          Ладно, замените одно слово и используйте понятие "самый высокий стандарт". Или "идеальный стандарт".
          1. MMX
            MMX 11 January 2016 19: 56 New
            0
            Quote: lnew
            Quote: MMX
            Военный стандарт, принятый государством, и "мировой стандарт" - есть разные понятия.

            In fact, I agree. The highest standards (let's call them ideal) are not accepted everywhere. An example is the same USSR. As a mass weapon, he completely dispensed with an assault rifle (according to the TTX), although in the ideal case it would be an automatic rifle (according to the TTX).
            But there was no army pistol at all. For 75 years they did not bother to develop and adopt.
            But this approach is not true. And it was caused by the extreme backwardness of the USSR in terms of the development and implementation of small arms. Ideally, you need to set yourself the highest standards.
            Quote: MMX
            Понятия "мировой стандарт" в контексте данной темы не существует.

            Ладно, замените одно слово и используйте понятие "самый высокий стандарт". Или "идеальный стандарт".


            И тут тоже мимо, т.к. большая часть мира использует именно "русский стандарт" в вооружении, а это свидетельствует о его превосходстве над стандартом "самый высокий стандарт". При этом, наш стандарт неоднократно доказывал свое превосходство над "самым высоким стандартом". Это факт.
          2. lnew
            lnew 11 January 2016 20: 29 New
            0
            Quote: MMX
            т.к. большая часть мира использует именно "русский стандарт" в вооружении

            Это вы сами придумали? М16А2 и ее аналоги являются основным вооружением более чем в 80 странах мира. "Русским стандартом", придуманным вами, в мире даже не пахнет. В цивилизованном. А в бедной Африке и Азии таки попахивает.
            К тому же придуманный вами "русский стандарт" не совпадает с физиологическим. Это по-вашему как? Ничего страшного?
            Quote: MMX
            а это свидетельствует о его превосходстве над стандартом "самый высокий стандарт".

            Well, how would boo-ha-ha.
            Quote: MMX
            При этом, наш стандарт неоднократно доказывал свое превосходство над "самым высоким стандартом". Это факт.

            What, can you give some examples of this?
            For example, I can prove the opposite. For example, Vietnam, M16A1 and AKM. After full-scale tests there, the M16A1 AKM was urgently dismissed with a knee, and instead the AK-74 was adopted. This is not a copy of M16A1, it is some kind of its weak likeness. But the Americans did not stop there, and instead of M16A1 armed with M16A2. This is such a thing, slightly better than the M16A1. And in the USSR, things remained there. Because in those days, the AK-74 was the limit of the design capabilities of the USSR. Weapon designers weren’t normal, simply put. They were legendary, but not normal. Here, the current designers inherited a 5,45x39 mm cartridge from him. And you can’t get far on it.
          3. MMX
            MMX 12 January 2016 07: 00 New
            +1
            Did you come up with this yourself?


            No, this is a reality. Welcome to her.

            M16A2 and its analogues are the main weapons in more than 80 countries.


            And in the world more than 200 countries (+ unrecognized and so on). There is no need to talk about the population. As a result, in a wide margin ... well, you understand.

            "Русским стандартом", придуманным вами, в мире даже не пахнет. В цивилизованном. А в бедной Африке и Азии таки попахивает.


            Вы же придумали "мировой стандарт" и "идеальный". Вот вам аналог. Ваш придуманный против моего. Все честно))
            Poor China is the world's first economy. I'm right again.

            К тому же придуманный вами "русский стандарт" не совпадает с физиологическим. Это по-вашему как? Ничего страшного?


            Oh, fantasy. If your physiological data do not allow you to use AK, then this is purely your problem. And the world practice of military operations shows that everyone else is coping very successfully. I'm right again.


            What, can you give some examples of this?
            For example, I can prove the opposite. For example, Vietnam, M16A1 and AKM. After full-scale tests there, the M16A1 AKM was urgently dismissed with a knee, and instead the AK-74 was adopted. This is not a copy of M16A1, it is some kind of its weak likeness. But the Americans did not stop there, and instead of M16A1 armed with M16A2. This is such a thing, slightly better than the M16A1. And in the USSR, things remained there. Because in those days, the AK-74 was the limit of the design capabilities of the USSR. Weapon designers weren’t normal, simply put. They were legendary, but not normal. Here, the current designers inherited a 5,45x39 mm cartridge from him. And you can’t get far on it.


            А тут далеко ходить не нужно за примерами. Одни из них вы сами привели. Почти все военные столкновения второй половины 20 века заканчивались победой "придуманного мной стандарта". Во Вьетнаме американцы таки остановились и вывели свои войска. Военная цель не достигнута. Так и записываем - поражение "самого лучшего стандарта". Это факт. Снова я прав. Впрочем, как и всегда в нашем с вами споре. Скучно даже...
          4. lnew
            lnew 12 January 2016 09: 34 New
            -1
            Quote: MMX
            And in the world more than 200 countries (+ unrecognized and so on).

            Actually about 50.
            Quote: MMX
            As a result, in a wide margin ... well, you understand

            I understood. M16 leads by a wide margin.
            Quote: MMX
            Вы же придумали "мировой стандарт" и "идеальный".

            Optimal. Based on physiology. Everything is objective there. And aiming range on an open sight. And the threshold of pain sensitivity. No gag.
            Quote: MMX
            Poor China is the world's first economy. I'm right again.

            1. Кто вам сказал, что Китай бедный? Вы были в Китае? Съездите, посмотрите. Офигеете. И от цен в супермаркетах, тоже. И от количества покупателей там. По данным за 2014г. средний китаец "стоит", как 9 (девять) средних россиян. Живете, как в пещере, пользуетесь какими-то древними сказками.
            2. And about the first economy in the world, it's ridiculous. No, really funny. Especially now that the Chinese bubble seems to have burst.
            Quote: MMX
            And the world practice of military operations shows that everyone else is coping very successfully.

            That's all around fools, they buy M16. What for? If possible easier and cheaper? If you can do with an ordinary ax. Understand that you can ride in Constipation. But on the Volga, better.
            Quote: MMX
            Почти все военные столкновения второй половины 20 века заканчивались победой "придуманного мной стандарта"

            Oh. And where is it? In such places?
            Quote: MMX
            In Vietnam, the Americans did stop and withdraw their troops.

            In Vietnam, there was no M16. Let's start with this. And the fact that they withdrew their troops, then where does the TTX AK? Do you think that if they were better, the Americans would not have withdrawn their troops? Are you sure about this?
            Quote: MMX
            However, as always in our dispute with you. Boring even ...

            It is useless to argue with you. You are always right. And you will be right. Just like a telegraph pole. Therefore, I stop.
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  • The comment was deleted.
  • newly
    newly 9 January 2016 14: 47 New
    -30
    Judging by the vote, neither the Pepsi generation is coming, but the Murzilka generation. Such a generation does not understand ballistics and does not want to understand it. Yes and can not, there is no knowledge. But he looks at the pictures and appreciates with pleasure.
    Arm those little peasants with axes, Murzilkas will completely manage with pleasure. It’s so brutal. And Murzilkam, the more brutal they are, the cooler. And the fact that fighting with axes is difficult, so what does Murzilok mean?
    1. lelikas
      lelikas 9 January 2016 15: 58 New
      +3
      Quote: newly

      Arm those little peasants with axes, Murzilkas will completely manage with pleasure. It’s so brutal.

      As they say, the ancient Ossetians - Weid notes?
      1. newly
        newly 9 January 2016 17: 49 New
        -6
        Quote: lelikas
        Side note

        And then. And in orderly rows to attack. On the machine guns.
        1. sharp-lad
          sharp-lad 9 January 2016 20: 54 New
          +1
          Because of the angle on the wave you will be the one! And now they don’t even stick to machine guns with grenade launchers! smile
          1. newly
            newly 9 January 2016 21: 03 New
            -6
            Quote: sharp-lad
            Because of the angle on the wave you will be the one!

            Are there many of these corners in the field? After all, the army also has to fight in the field. That's what bad luck.
            1. sharp-lad
              sharp-lad 9 January 2016 22: 39 New
              +3
              And in the field, an ax is useful for business affairs. smile
            2. The comment was deleted.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Dam
    Dam 9 January 2016 15: 59 New
    +9
    And your nonsense does not need comments, but a consultation with a psychiatrist. And what document regulates your notorious standard, whether it is a medical history. The warrior is sofa.
    1. newly
      newly 9 January 2016 17: 31 New
      -11
      Quote: Damm
      And what document regulates your notorious standard, whether it is a medical history. The warrior is sofa.

      A. This is a clear representative of the Pinocchio generation. Nifiga does not understand, but she knows everything. At the same time, it is extremely harsh and obese.
      Morally ready to crush everyone who knows something with asphalt rollers. To not protrude. And they were like everyone else, that is, like him. Harsh, but in the subject of conversation do not understand anything.
      1. Dam
        Dam 9 January 2016 23: 45 New
        +1
        Was a specific question asked about a document? Doesn’t know, doesn’t understand. I didn’t see a single fact in your sulfur, and there’s nothing to answer. Can you give comparative characteristics of 223 caliber and 5,45 to 39. Or something else, except for the adjectives of the world standard, the best, etc. I’m ready to talk substantively
        1. newl
          newl 10 January 2016 00: 57 New
          -7
          Quote: Damm
          Ready to talk substantively

          And I am ready. What do you want to know? The threshold of human pain sensitivity? So you are a doctor, as you introduced yourself. What other document do you need in this regard?
          1. Dam
            Dam 10 January 2016 02: 48 New
            +5
            The document, where the terrible World standard of weapons is written!
            1. newl
              newl 10 January 2016 02: 55 New
              -5
              Do you understand Russian? I wrote to you. What else do you need?
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  • newly
    newly 9 January 2016 18: 08 New
    -8
    Ну, для того, кому интересно, надо обозначить необходимые шаги. Чтобы российский военный был вооружен чуть лучше, чем сейчас. Иногда это "чуть" очень дорогого стоит.
    First of all, a new competition must be held according to new criteria. Why the criteria for this contest were such, many probably guess. Or suggest.
    They need to be changed. First of all, n / s weapon bullets should be brought somewhere around 940 m / s. To do this, you need to extend its trunk to about 500-505 mm. And based on such parameters, look at the accuracy of automatic fire.
    Something tells me that the extended AK-12 will have no chance. I'd like to hope that competitors (or AK-12 manufacturers) will be able to do something balanced with such parameters. After all, the recoil momentum will increase by 3 and a quarter%.
    What will be the result? Fully SMG will not work in any case. For this, it will be necessary to carry out a complete rearmament, but this is not realistic. Therefore, you will have to be content with weapons of the level fully SMG - (fully SMG minus). Nothing can be done here, it is not realistic to squeeze out more from a 5,45x39 mm cartridge. In fact, this is a very good option, better than now.
    I think we will see such a contest. I don’t know how soon, but there are chances.
  • pilot8878
    pilot8878 10 January 2016 01: 46 New
    +4
    Quote: newly
    The world standard implies the arming of soldiers with full automatic weapons (fully SMG). Today there are several main options:
    1. This is an individual weapon on a 5,56 × 45 mm M193 cartridge with a barrel length of approximately 508 mm.
    2. This is an individual weapon on a 5,56 × 45 mm M855 cartridge with a barrel length of approximately 440 mm.
    3. This is an individual weapon on a 5,45 × 39 mm cartridge (3,4 g bullet) with a barrel length of approximately 590 mm. I warn you right away, RPK74 is not suitable here, the balance is not the same.

    US world standard? I’ll tell you a secret: in addition to the cross, there are other, better countries in the world.
    1. newl
      newl 10 January 2016 01: 58 New
      -7
      Quote: pilot8878
      I’ll tell you a secret: in addition to the cross, there are other, better countries in the world.

      I’ll tell you a secret, sometimes it’s better to chew than talk.
      1. pilot8878
        pilot8878 10 January 2016 13: 35 New
        +2
        Quote: newl
        sometimes it's better to chew than talk.

        Better yet, just do not be rude when your mind and knowledge on counterarguments are not enough. It’s bad to learn in the bobbin.
        1. lnew
          lnew 10 January 2016 18: 18 New
          -3
          Quote: pilot8878
          Better not to be rude,

          Better yet, just don't ask boorish questions.
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    1. Samaritan
      Samaritan 9 January 2016 13: 50 New
      +8
      This photo is already about 7 years old, look here:
      1. newly
        newly 9 January 2016 13: 57 New
        -14
        Quote: Samaritan
        This photo is already 7 years old, look here

        Is that what I need to see? And what, from watching the film, the small arms of the soldiers will somehow change?
        And then about the anti-nuclear clock, it is very interesting. But small arms are more important. This is the basis, not the clock.
        1. Max_Bauder
          Max_Bauder 9 January 2016 15: 01 New
          +5
          In vain argue, the main warrior is? there is already good. There is armor, protection, and more. And ordinary soldiers with the new AK-12 can also be quietly at war as well as the m-4, and for special forces there are always special models with upgrades.
          1. newly
            newly 9 January 2016 15: 10 New
            -25
            Quote: Max_Bauder
            Arguing in vain

            Why so? At least 1 person will understand what I’m writing about, it’s already good. One person who understands the shooter will be more. Already make sense.
            Quote: Max_Bauder
            And ordinary soldiers with the new AK-12 can also be at peace, just like the m-4

            1. M4 is just not for ordinary soldiers. For ordinary soldiers M16.
            2. You can fight with a pitchfork. And even fought with the PPSh. And even with AK-47 they could. But with all of them I would not want, I would like with full weapons, if I have to.
            1. Dam
              Dam 9 January 2016 16: 08 New
              +5
              So you yourself do not understand what you are writing about. Ak 12 uses a caliber of 5,45 * 39. According to ballistics, a complete analogue of 223 used by NATO. But the bullet will be better, unlike the 223, it does not fragment immediately after hitting any surface and can more overcome an obstacle, such as a thin wall or other obstacle. (A feature of the technology for producing bullets). In addition, AK allows the use of a steel lacquered sleeve, Arke needs brass. And so it’s been written about all this a hundred times, it will be interesting, you will find. And both of these calibers are categorically insufficient in modern combat, where the distance to the enemy has increased to 500-700m.
              1. newly
                newly 9 January 2016 17: 45 New
                -9
                Quote: Damm
                In ballistics, a complete analogue of 223 used by NATO.

                Are you telling this to whom? To me? I do not need. This is you tell a schoolboy. They are gullible, they are easy to mislead.
                Quote: Damm
                But the bullet will be better

                I wrote to you about schoolchildren? I wrote. Already now I insist. And especially about the SS109 bullet tell them. How bad she is.
                Quote: Damm
                and can more overcome an obstacle, such as a thin wall or other obstacle. (a feature of the technology for the production of bullets)

                It’s an extinction that you produce some bullets of your own. At home. Or special you describe. And in ordinary life it is customary to operate on ordinary. So in the NSD more and more ordinary appear.
                Quote: Damm
                In addition, AK allows the use of a steel lacquered sleeve, Arke needs brass.

                What's this. Hunting double-barreled shotguns generally cost by plastic (sometimes cardboard) sleeves. Great army weapons would be your way.
                Quote: Damm
                And both of these calibers are categorically insufficient in modern combat, where the distance to the enemy has increased to 500-700m.

                Why's that? Where do such distances come from? Ordinary mass small arms on an open sight without optics for a period beyond 400-450m did not dare. Human physiology does not allow. The rascal's eye failed.
                1. Dam
                  Dam 9 January 2016 22: 01 New
                  13
                  Sir, alas, you are a fool. I am 45 years old, I have used a 5,45 * 39 caliber saiga and an Archi Daler arch in 223. Regarding bullets, I once again send to the Internet, telling you is boring and unpromising. I am engaged in practical shooting and sniping. Again, according to the ballistics of the above, I am sending it to the library, or if IQ does not allow it, then to the Hans. Regarding the material of the sleeve, for stupid, mass steel sleeve is cheaper at times. AK-shaped are much less critical to gross cartridge and severe operating conditions. On the last point: I wrote in Russian that these calibers are insufficient. Therefore, the Americans are returning to the 308 caliber in Afghanistan. Ours use the good old 7,62 * 54. There is a tendency to strengthen the battle group with more powerful rifle calibers. In all discussions, the possibility of adopting weapons in the 300win mag and 338 lapua mag is being discussed. And at the expense of optics, in the warrior, among others, there is a wide-focus sight Racurs P. Again, I am sending you to x .., to the original source. Troll your grandmother, and ignorance is not hidden alas and ah.
                  1. newl
                    newl 9 January 2016 22: 19 New
                    -13
                    Quote: Damm
                    Sir, alas, you are a fool.

                    Sam do * ac. tongue
                    Quote: Damm
                    I am engaged in practical shooting and sniping.

                    How many times can you write that sporting weapons have nothing to do with hunting weapons (and army ones, this is a special case of hunting)? What do your skills have to do with determining weapon effectiveness? Are you a coroner? Criminal pathologist? Well, just sit quietly.
                    Quote: Damm
                    On the last point: I wrote in Russian that these calibers are insufficient.

                    PPC. Learn how their bullets differ from the classic ones. Maybe then you will understand something.
                    Quote: Damm
                    Therefore, the Americans are returning to the 308 caliber in Afghanistan.

                    They don’t come back, but he was always there. These are not competitors. Each has its own niche. You are confusing ammo.
                    Quote: Damm
                    There is a tendency to strengthen the battle group with more powerful rifle calibers.

                    Yes? Where else are such cartridges used, besides the traditional MG (company machine guns; not German MG42) and sniper rifles?
                    Quote: Damm
                    In all discussions, the possibility of adopting weapons in the 300win mag and 338 lapua mag is being discussed.

                    To promise is not to marry.
                    Quote: Damm
                    And at the expense of optics, in the warrior, among others, a wide-focus sight Racurs P.

                    You do not look like a person. I wrote to you from the very beginning that there it is necessary to strengthen the most important thing, the shooter. And he told me about the scope for a shotgun. Reinforced concrete man.
                    Quote: Damm
                    and ignorance does not hide alas and ah.

                    Громче всех "держи вора", как правило кричит сам вор.
                  2. Dam
                    Dam 9 January 2016 22: 41 New
                    +6
                    I am a surgeon, I graduated from the Kirov Medical Academy in 1994. We can talk about wound channels, a pulsating cavity and features of body damage when using different calibers of weapons, if you are interested, so go quietly on the subject. What do you mean by a classic bullet? A feature of small calibers when they enter the body is a very large pulsating cavity, which forms extensive tissue necrosis around the wound canal (the reason is the very high speed of the bullet is more than 1000 m / s.). The second feature is the unstable behavior of the bullet in the wound channel, because, due to its low weight and high speed, the bullet is re-stabilized in flight and easily breaks into a somersault. Above I wrote about the features of the technology for the production of bullets 223, 5,45 * 39 is easily fragmented, which from the cavity in the nose begins to spin in the wound and change the direction of the wound channel. The data are open, the British are armed with 300 Vin Mage. The Americans used the 308 caliber before the Marxists, now there is a tendency to use 308 everywhere in the combat units of Afghanistan, the Marines are armed with Rem 700 in 308. Our specialists are using the 338 Magnum paw with might and main (I regularly see them when shooting at Sand). In the army, the role of the long arm is played by the SVD and its clones of 7.62 * 54 r caliber and machine guns. This is by the way, about knowledge and ignorance. Parry.
                  3. newl
                    newl 9 January 2016 22: 52 New
                    -9
                    Quote: Damm
                    the reason is a very high bullet speed of more than 1000m / s. )

                    Actually, the main reason is the bullet’s turn. This is not an accident, so conceived.
                    And there have never been such speeds on target. 500-550 m / s for M16 of various types and AK-74 for 400m.
                    Quote: Damm
                    now there is a tendency to use 308 throughout Afghanistan's combat units

                    There are no combat units in Afghanistan. There is a police operation. It is simply carried out by army forces. But the real war is not there. Therefore, the example is not correct.
                    Quote: Damm
                    This is by the way, about knowledge and ignorance. Parry.

                    What to fend off? What do SVD and company machine guns use? What for? Read here, somewhere, I wrote that small-caliber sniper guns and company machine guns are not competitors. They have their own niches and their own ammunition. So there’s nothing to fend off.
                  4. Dam
                    Dam 9 January 2016 23: 19 New
                    +7
                    What is a u-turn? Where? The speed of the bullet is correctly given at the cut of the barrel. Hitting the target can be at any distance. Even the slower 9,3 * 74 r have a velocity at the cut of the barrel in the range from 550 to 800 m / s (see the manual on the equipment of the Lapua cartridge). Operating speeds of 7,62 calibres from 770 to + - 900m / s. Now about the professional: modern wars are characterized by a much greater distance of opponents from each other, excluding urban battles. So in urban battles, an intermediate cartridge of 7,62 * 39 looks more preferable, due to a more confident off-target defeat of the enemy. In battles in New Russia, Syria, there is a tendency to keep the enemy at a distance where the defeat of the enemy by personal small arms is more an accident than targeted work (again, excluding the work of the DRG and fighting in urban areas. In addition, as it turned out, 7,62 * 39 in unlike small bullets, it works well in light armored vehicles. So, there’s nothing absolute. Regarding the defeat of personnel. A man is a very gentle animal, dies from shock in the absence of help very quickly, and according to figs, it’s a fashionable bullet or a dumb fragment of a warhead. No need intensify the damaging effect of the bullet. By the way, when switching to small caliber, it was implied that this is a more humane weapon. Features gained much later
                  5. newl
                    newl 10 January 2016 00: 51 New
                    -5
                    Quote: Damm
                    The speed of the bullet is correctly given at the cut of the barrel.

                    PPC. On which section? There she is always the same. Different she is always on target. And only this final speed is important. You do not shoot at the enemy at point blank range? Or was it just that they were going to fight?
                    Quote: Damm
                    modern wars are characterized by a much greater distance of opponents from each other, excluding urban battles

                    Modern wars are currently missing. Therefore, there is no point in discussing this topic.
                    Quote: Damm
                    So in urban battles, an intermediate cartridge of 7,62 * 39 looks more preferable, due to a more confident off-target defeat of the enemy

                    This is not an army weapon. This is a weapon for special operations. It can be anything, it’s on the DShK cartridge. But this is not a massive army armament.
                    Quote: Damm
                    In the battles in New Russia, Syria, there is a tendency to keep the enemy at a distance

                    There is no full-scale war. There are armed conflicts.
                    Quote: Damm
                    In addition, as it turned out, 7,62 * 39, unlike small bullets, works well in light armored vehicles.

                    Do not tell, okay?
                    Quote: Damm
                    There is no need to strengthen the damaging effect of the bullet.

                    Did you come up with this yourself? The whole world is working on it, but this is not necessary.
                    Quote: Damm
                    By the way, when switching to small calibers, it was implied that this is a more humane weapon. Features gained much later

                    Are you really not in yourself to write this? In fact, weapons are adopted after testing. And your methodology smacks of valentism. This is not done in the world.
                    Quote: Damm
                    A man is a very gentle animal, dies from shock in the absence of help very quickly

                    Not very tender. Therefore, they design weapons with specified performance characteristics to help him.
                  6. Dam
                    Dam 10 January 2016 02: 57 New
                    +3
                    I promised not to write anymore, but that.
                    The speed of the bullet at the cut of the barrel will always be different depending on the ammunition, the length of the barrel, the chamber and a cloud of other factors. The speed of the bullet at different distances is averaged and conditional for use in ballistic calculations (ignorant, to mom, alphabet in hand)
                    The whole Middle East has now fallen, there are no wars, Cool!
                    What DShK, rave?
                    Look at the photo MTLB and armored personnel carrier punched 7,62, 39 in Novorossia. There are a lot of them in nete.
                    The striking effect of a bullet is enhanced in hunting semi-shell cartridges.
                    Goodbye, to school, to school to learn lessons
                  7. The comment was deleted.
                  8. newl
                    newl 10 January 2016 03: 15 New
                    -2
                    Quote: Damm
                    The speed of the bullet at the cut of the barrel will always be different depending on the ammunition, the length of the barrel, the chamber and a cloud of other factors.

                    You are an amazing fruit. We have just been discussing perfectly conventional weapons on solidly guarded munitions. But here you have taken from somewhere trunks of different dildos, different chamber, different ammunition. You do not split personality for an hour?
                    Quote: Damm
                    The speed of the bullet at different distances is averaged and conditional for use in ballistic calculations (ignorant, to mom, alphabet in hand)

                    Listen, uch, you already got me. Open NSD to any weapon. There at the end there are speed tables at different distances. They are completely specific and accurate. Nifiga does not know, just to write a fuck.
                    Quote: Damm
                    There are a lot of them in nete.

                    There is a lot in nete. There are even your comments there.
                    Quote: Damm
                    The striking effect of a bullet is enhanced in hunting semi-shell cartridges.

                    Вы решили прямо все написать, что знаете? Браво. Вообще-то "полуоболочечные пули" принято называть экспансивными.
                    Quote: Damm
                    Goodbye, to school, to school to learn lessons

                    So I say. It’s time for you to go. And then you began to talk something.
              2. The comment was deleted.
          2. Vladimirets
            Vladimirets 10 January 2016 00: 41 New
            +3
            Quote: Damm
            A feature of small calibers when they enter the body is a very large pulsating cavity, which forms extensive tissue necrosis around the wound canal (the reason is the very high speed of the bullet is more than 1000 m / s.).

            Коллега, я Вас немного поправлю. Не просто мелких калибров, а, так называемых, мелких "длинных" калибров, Вы поняли о чём я. Тут играет роль отношение калибра к мощности самого патрона. Описанными Вами жуткими свойствами обладают те же, т.н. горные патроны .300ВМ и .338ЛМ при использовании их неумными людьми, например, на лесных охотах. То же самое и про .223рем, и про .243вин.
          3. Dam
            Dam 10 January 2016 02: 00 New
            +3
            Meant under small combat 223 and 5,45 * 39, magnums also have the same effect as high-speed ones. But here the power is excessive, for a person
    2. avia1991
      avia1991 10 January 2016 12: 30 New
      +4
      Quote: Damm
      Again, I am sending you to x .., to the original source.

      laughing it’s better not to offend the source - the first point is enough! wink
      After reading the comments, want to testify respect Your knowledge and experience hi
  • Shadowcat
    Shadowcat 9 January 2016 17: 08 New
    +3
    Yes, there is no Warrior! No! They have no. That's offended. Again, the Russians are fighting non-convection;)
  • The comment was deleted.
  • NEXUS
    NEXUS 9 January 2016 14: 50 New
    +9
    Quote: Black
    Finally, the world standard. Stylish, functional and thoughtful. Beauties. )))

    And it was stated that 50-70 thousand sets per year will be produced per year ... apparently they accelerate production. Good deed.
  • Vadivak
    Vadivak 9 January 2016 12: 05 New
    20
    Quote: awersa
    Well, thank God, those days have passed when the main criterion for the form / equipment was “Beauty from Yudashkin”)))

    There was a very decent form, look at the photo link

    В опубликованном интервью "Известиям" модельер открестился от той формы, которую военные выдают за одежду "от Юдашкина", браня ее за непрактичность и ставя в вину кутюрье десятки простуженных солдат. По словам Юдашкина, в Минобороны грубо исказили его проект, заменив ткани, фурнитуру и теплоудерживающие материалы дешевыми аналогами.

    The company of the fashion designer in an official statement stated that the field uniform, currently supplied to the Russian army, has nothing to do with the designs developed by the Yudashkin Fashion House and approved by the Ministry of Defense and the Supreme Command.

    "ООО "Валентин Юдашкин" и лично Валентин Юдашкин обеспокоены ситуацией, сложившейся вокруг полевой формы для военнослужащих, поставляемой на плановое снабжение в Вооруженные силы РФ", - цитирует "Интерфакс" заявление руководства компании.

    Авторы документа отмечают, что военные не предоставили возможность компании Юдашкина "реализовать свое право на авторский контроль за качеством продукции, поставляемой в Вооруженные силы". "Мы удивлены тем фактом, что никто на сегодняшний день не задал справедливые вопросы, кто осуществляет поставку формы на плановое снабжение в Вооруженные силы, где она производится, какие ткани и материалы используются для ее производства", - отмечается в заявлении. По мнению руководства компании, как только ответы на эти вопросы будут получены, сразу станет ясна непричастность Дома моды к новой форме
    http://www.newsru.com/russia/21nov2012/judashkin_2.html
    1. The black
      The black 9 January 2016 12: 15 New
      11
      Yes, yes, that's right. I remember this story.
      Yudashkin then almost officially disowned what was being supplied to the troops. This happened, if I don’t confuse anything, after the story of the mass illness of recruits pneumonia. The material there, from which the uniform was sewn, was very different from the samples that were shown to the President and the Minister of Defense.
    2. Mavrikiy
      Mavrikiy 9 January 2016 12: 59 New
      +4
      Я думаю, " Десятки простуженных солдат", никто бы просто не заметил. А вот от тысяч....
    3. Teamon
      Teamon 9 January 2016 12: 59 New
      +3
      Да наверно оригинальная форма "от Юдашкина" была качественнее, но то что было в 2010 году, когда весенние новобранцы прибыли в в/ч 54096, это факт того что ребят реально продувало.. negative
  • dmi.pris
    dmi.pris 9 January 2016 12: 18 New
    0
    Теперь другой стандарт.."Красота от "вежливых людей"..
    Quote: awersa
    Well, thank God, those days have passed when the main criterion for the form / equipment was “Beauty from Yudashkin”)))
    1. Basarev
      Basarev 9 January 2016 12: 23 New
      0
      Quote: dmi.pris
      The mobility of the fighter should increase through the use of exoskeletons

      So Crimson Dynamo is approaching.
  • vovanpain
    vovanpain 9 January 2016 12: 27 New
    +8
    Warrior - Russian military equipment of a serviceman, also referred to as the “soldier of the future kit”. The “Warrior” is part of a general project to improve the quality of a single soldier on the battlefield by using the latest scientific achievements in the field of navigation, night vision systems, monitoring the psychophysiological state of a soldier, and using advanced materials in the manufacture of armor and clothing fabrics. The system is a complex of modern means of protection, communications, weapons and ammunition. Research and development work was carried out by dozens of Russian defense enterprises such as FSUE TsNIITOCHMASH, NPO Special equipment and communications, NGO Special materials and others. According to the creators, the new equipment will be able to compete on equal terms with similar models of equipment of the “soldier of the future”. The structure of the "Warrior" includes about 10 subsystems. According to the First Deputy Chairman of the Military-Industrial Commission established under the Government of the Russian Federation, Yuri Borisov, this kit will be distinguished by a modular layout and will be adapted to operate in a variety of conditions and at any time of the day. "Warrior" was developed on the basis of equipment "Barmitsa".
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. vovanpain
      vovanpain 9 January 2016 12: 30 New
      +8
      Features

      The portable set R-175 (UNKV-03) consists of a radio station R-168-0,5UM,
      R-175_ (UNKV-03) of a communicator of a subscriber AK-3,5 and a tactical terminal TT-6,5
      Navigation and control system of tactical link from ICD Compass under the "code" name "Soldier of the XNUMXst Century"
      Collimator sight PKM-Alpha equipment “Ratnik”
      800px-Collimator_ sight_PKM-Alpha

      The equipment was first presented to the audience at the MAKS-2011 air show. Military tests were held in December 2012 on the basis of the 27th separate motorized rifle brigade in the Alabino training ground near Moscow. According to the results of military tests, the elements of equipment received a positive assessment of the military command.
      1. vovanpain
        vovanpain 9 January 2016 12: 35 New
        10
        В состав"Ратника входят;
        Kamenskvolokno aramid overalls made of fiber "Alutex", capable of withstanding the ingress of fragments of grenades, mines or shells, and also has a certain fire resistance;
        the protection kit includes a bulletproof vest 6B43 (with ceramic plates) of protection class 6a in an extended configuration (weight - up to 15 kg) or class 5 in a standard configuration (weight - up to 9 kg) according to GOST R 51136-98, GOST R 51112-97 GOST R 50941-96. And a multi-layer helmet withstanding the impact of a pistol bullet (protection class 1) from a distance of 5-10 m.
        800px-6B45_bulletproof_vest_-_InnovationDay2013part1-61

        the kit is equipped with the Sagittarius control system, which includes communication, target designation, processing and display of information, identification - which allows transmitting information about the location of the soldier to the command post;
        a communicator that determines the coordinates of a fighter using GLONASS and GPS, to solve the problem of orientation on the ground and target designation and other applied calculations;
        energy supply kits;
        safety glasses capable of withstanding the impact of 6 mm fragments flying at a speed of 350 m / s;
        shields on the knee and elbow joints, water purification filters, autonomous heat sources;
        AK-12 or a modernized AK of other versions, equipped with a night vision scope and thermal imaging aiming system;
        a video module for sheltering, consisting of a helmet-mounted minimonitor and a television sight;
        “Krechet” collimator sight and other devices (in addition to the sight, a 3-fold telescope or a “Lun” night vision monocular can be installed);
        different types of backpacks are included in the life support system (universal backpack with a volume of 50 liters, a raid pack of 10 liters;
        unloading vest with interchangeable quick-detachable elements), camouflage kits, folding heat-insulating pad, removable insulation for winter use, a ventilated T-shirt, a vest with ammunition compartments, a rug, a raincoat, a cap, a hood, a mosquito net;
        tent, sleeping bag;
        active headphones that allow you to communicate during the battle;
        knife "Bumblebee".
        The total weight of the kit is up to 20 kilograms with body armor 6A protection class. In the standard version, the weight will be up to 14 kilograms with body armor of the 5th protection class. The weight of the helmet is 1,056 kg. In general, 90% of the surface of a soldier’s body is covered. Body armor has several varieties from light to heavy with insert plates. The marine version of body armor combines the properties of a life jacket, which makes it possible to stay afloat with it. Modularity allows you to fasten any pockets on the unloading vest. The winter version will differ only in the presence of heat supply and insulation.
        1. vovanpain
          vovanpain 9 January 2016 12: 37 New
          +9
          Designed to be worn continuously for a minimum of 48 hours. The transmission of video information from the sight to the eye indicator is carried out wirelessly. The communication system will allow the soldier to communicate with the command and colleagues at a tactical level. The electronic saturation makes the soldier a unified combat system controlled by the latest technology. At the same time, information about the location of the fighter is transmitted to the command post (CP), which greatly reduces the loss of the missing. Communication is provided by the Sagittarius intelligence, control and communications complex, which allows you to exchange information using voice or text messages, carry out target designation, and take photos and videos. The television sight on the machine gives an image in the eyecup, which allows shooting and surveillance from shelters or from the hip. For anti-aircraft gunners, automatic control of anti-aircraft missile systems has been created, with the help of which the commander detects targets at a distance of several tens of kilometers and transfers the coordinates in automatic mode to soldiers. From one point can receive commands up to nine anti-aircraft gunners. This will exhaust the need for a visual search for targets by the anti-aircraft gunners themselves. The system allows you to get out of an ambush at the right time for a shot and hide again. It can also be used by snipers and grenade launchers to fire. Such a system will be possible to use for the protection of military convoys.

          At the end of the service, well-worn clothing will be handed over to recruits after sanitation
          1. shans2
            shans2 9 January 2016 17: 08 New
            0
            "Телевизионный прицел на автомате даёт изображение в наглазник, что позволяет вести стрельбу и наблюдение из укрытий или от бедра."

            But this is really cool!
  • mirag2
    mirag2 9 January 2016 12: 45 New
    +2
    "Beauty from Yudashkin"-отлично,что вспомнили "модернизацию" армии,рожденную в РоссийскоФобной среде либералов-глобалистов. am
  • Tor5
    Tor5 9 January 2016 14: 13 New
    0
    Has the process really gone in the right direction?
  • Sorokin
    Sorokin 9 January 2016 14: 19 New
    0
    Do not remember this goat spawn. Hugo unfinished.
  • Kvazar
    Kvazar 11 January 2016 15: 15 New
    0
    And why do you forgive the PARADE form from Yudashkin does not suit you? There they laid the necessary materials and expensive. And the fact that someone decided to save on a parade and sewed in violation of all TTZ from Mr. Yudashkin is not a problem. By the way, he was developing a parade for his money in the only center of designer clothes in Russia. If that Hugo Boss already does the Uniform at the Bundesfer and everyone considers it normal. What is the PARADE form designers do, not the designer.

    Yudashkin did not make a combat uniform. Honestly got the word already.
  • st25310
    st25310 9 January 2016 12: 02 New
    14

    "Warrior". Russian armor of the future.
    1. yuriy55
      yuriy55 9 January 2016 13: 19 New
      +1
      Thank. Well complementary video good
  • dr.star75
    dr.star75 9 January 2016 12: 03 New
    +1
    And the fourth generation is probably the robots will run .. laughing
    1. Phantom Revolution
      Phantom Revolution 9 January 2016 12: 24 New
      +1
      Quote: dr.star75
      And the 4 generation is probably the robots will run .. laughing

      Exoskeleton and exosuit.
  • Grigorievich
    Grigorievich 9 January 2016 12: 03 New
    +1
    They look good, but what kind of rifle does a fighter have in the background? A sniper?
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 9 January 2016 12: 16 New
      0
      Quote: Grigorievich
      Sniper?

      This is ORSIS T-5000.
  • MIKHAN
    MIKHAN 9 January 2016 12: 06 New
    +5
    The main thing is that the United States should not be copied in everything .. And I hope they won’t forget about the good old quilted jackets (they bent half of Europe))))
    1. Altona
      Altona 9 January 2016 12: 21 New
      +4
      Quote: MIKHAN
      The main thing is that the United States is not copied in everything.

      -------------------------
      Yes, they do copy exactly, but this is a global trend, a general trend. Because the USA is constantly engaged in improving uniforms and equipment.
    2. guzik007
      guzik007 9 January 2016 12: 32 New
      +2
      Mihan ???? What happened???
      1. MIKHAN
        MIKHAN 9 January 2016 12: 34 New
        +5
        Quote: guzik007
        Mihan ???? What happened???

        As you can see ... Fine, then shooting! hi
        1. guzik007
          guzik007 9 January 2016 13: 17 New
          +4
          As you can see ... Fine, then shooting!
          ------------------------------------
          Yeah, here you’re not here, just watch the broom: =)
          1. MIKHAN
            MIKHAN 9 January 2016 13: 38 New
            +3
            Quote: guzik007
            As you can see ... Fine, then shooting!
            ------------------------------------
            Yeah, here you’re not here, just watch the broom: =)

            Shoot ....
    3. Great-grandfather of Zeus
      Great-grandfather of Zeus 9 January 2016 12: 36 New
      +2
      MIKHAN-about the padded jacket, he’ll still show himself, they’ll give me a version of the armored car ... (just kidding).
      1. MIKHAN
        MIKHAN 9 January 2016 12: 44 New
        +7
        Quote: Great-grandfather of Zeus
        MIKHAN-about the padded jacket, he’ll still show himself, they’ll give me a version of the armored car ... (just kidding).

        Yes, there were times .. crying
        But I still wouldn’t lose my quilted jackets ... Heat is cheap and practical!
        1. Sorokin
          Sorokin 9 January 2016 14: 29 New
          +4
          I agree especially remember indoor officers. Warming and not wet.
  • Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 9 January 2016 12: 07 New
    0
    The fighter in the foreground - AEK, and in the background - a new sniper. Did not recognize immediately.
    1. The black
      The black 9 January 2016 12: 17 New
      +1
      Precisely AEK ..... gentlemen minus, and what is wrong?
      1. v1tz
        v1tz 9 January 2016 12: 28 New
        +2
        more similar to AK-107 or 108, the same balanced automation as on AEK ...
      2. BDRM 667
        BDRM 667 9 January 2016 12: 31 New
        +7
        Quote: Black
        Precisely AEK ..... gentlemen minus, and what is wrong?

        What did not guess ...
        1. The black
          The black 9 January 2016 13: 57 New
          +1
          Да в том то и дело, что он "угадал" (был прав). А вот на твоих фото не АЕК. Посмотри повнимательнее, найдёшь отличия wink
    2. dmi.pris
      dmi.pris 9 January 2016 12: 25 New
      0
      Ak12 in the picture .. A sniper rifle is similar to ORTIS2000, although I could be wrong
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      The fighter in the foreground - AEK, and in the background - a new sniper. Did not recognize immediately.
      1. BDRM 667
        BDRM 667 9 January 2016 12: 33 New
        +4
        Quote: dmi.pris
        Ak12 in the picture ..

        Another one, DON'T GUESS ...
        1. tol
          tol 9 January 2016 13: 46 New
          +2
          AK 107 or 108, more precisely probably AK-107 under our 5.45, but shops are 60 strange, as far as I know, they didn’t go to the series
          1. FIREMAN
            FIREMAN 9 January 2016 16: 45 New
            +1
            but the shops are 60 strange, as far as I know the series did not go

            Most likely this is just the remnants of an experimental batch, a photo from some factory site, info about these stores at the HANZ back in 2010 slipped.
            1. tol
              tol 10 January 2016 04: 56 New
              0
              I also think, but if the GRAU index was given (6L31) then it can be used, he had overlapping feed streams with an incomplete store, but here a friend writes that they eliminated (http://gunsforum.com/blog/7/entry-1 -magazin-ak-na-60-patronov-6l31 /)
      2. The comment was deleted.
  • Reserve buildbat
    Reserve buildbat 9 January 2016 12: 14 New
    +2
    Интересно, что "Ратник" еще только поступает в войска, но его по частям уже вполне можно купить. И БЖ, и шлем, и противоосколочный комбез, и очки, и РПС - всё. А вроде говорили мне, что незаконно это.
    Although I'm already thinking about buying it. Try on
    1. Wheel
      Wheel 9 January 2016 21: 16 New
      0
      Quote: Stroibat stock
      Интересно, что "Ратник" еще только поступает в войска, но его по частям уже вполне можно купить. И БЖ, и шлем, и противоосколочный комбез, и очки, и РПС - всё. А вроде говорили мне, что незаконно это.
      Business, nothing personal. laughing
  • gg.na
    gg.na 9 January 2016 12: 18 New
    +2
    For a warrior to be a full-fledged defender of his homeland, he must be fed, shod, dressed and armed !!! I am very pleased with such news as the modernization of the Su-35go ZRKashki also modernized for landing, here they created the form at the proper level! In general, all types of equipment and weapons have begun either to create completely new ones or to upgrade to a more acceptable level! good
  • guzik007
    guzik007 9 January 2016 12: 36 New
    0
    The warrior is very good. If only the budget was pulled.
  • v1tz
    v1tz 9 January 2016 12: 42 New
    0
    To interact with this equipment you need training and training, will not let the guys get bored ...
  • In search
    In search 9 January 2016 12: 50 New
    +1
    And most importantly ... only 12 years are needed to provide regular troops. We don’t even talk about reservists - it’s necessary to beat mobile warehouses at such a pace for about 100 years. Trifle.
    1. Mikhail Krapivin
      Mikhail Krapivin 9 January 2016 14: 09 New
      +1
      It is necessary for Americans to lick an ass - they will provide faster?
  • Izotovp
    Izotovp 9 January 2016 12: 56 New
    0
    Integrated air filtration tools are needed with the possibility of their quick activation in manual or automatic mode. Especially relevant in a dusty or urban environment.
  • chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 9 January 2016 13: 00 New
    +2
    The future lies in hermetic combat suits.
    Interestingly, the development is underway?
    1. Izotovp
      Izotovp 9 January 2016 13: 11 New
      0
      Тогда нужна кооперация с нпп "Звезда", разработчиками скафандров для Роскосмоса.
      1. chunga-changa
        chunga-changa 9 January 2016 18: 33 New
        0
        It is unlikely that they have a completely different experience for completely different conditions. Literally nothing will come in handy, well, maybe except for some parts of the respiratory system.
        1. Izotovp
          Izotovp 9 January 2016 22: 46 New
          +1
          Their experience is applicable for creating the inside of a combat spacesuit: climate, ergonomics, air supply, nutrition, sweating ... Space suits operate in a wide range of temperatures and in conditions of increased radiation.
          1. chunga-changa
            chunga-changa 10 January 2016 15: 17 New
            +1
            Климат совершенно другой, в косм. скафандрах это слой трубочек с жидкостью отводящей тепло тела в внешний теплообменник, в боевых условиях эта ситема прослужит очень не долго. На земле всё проще, тепло может рассеиваться при испарении пота простым обдувом. Эргономика вообще и близко не стояла, и задачи другие и ограничений по подвижности нет. Вы видели как космонавты двигаются? С такой "эргономикой" на поле боя проживёшь секунд тридцать, если ты не Сандра Буллок конечно. Ну если только "питание" - трубочка из встроенного "кэмэлбэка", кушать можно вполне по обычному - снял шлем и рубай тушёнку.
            The most realistic thing now is to develop a spacesuit for crews of military vehicles. An exoskeleton is not needed, or if needed, it can be carried separately. Non-combustible material with good anti-splinter resistance. The breathing system is connected to a standard HVF machine, heat transfer due to a standard air conditioner, or forced airflow. Plus a small container of compressed air, for about five minutes, to leave the burning machine, or in case of a malfunction of the HLF. The helmet has a built-in communication system - goodbye TPU, saves the face from fire and splinters, respiratory organs from burns. The visor can be used as an indicator instead of monitors. Plus, an integrated system of medical sensors, monitors, tourniquets, automatic feeding of some kind of hemostatic and sealing foam. In general, it’s very close to what pilots have, only easier, there is no need to compensate for overloads and low temperatures.
            1. Izotovp
              Izotovp 11 January 2016 08: 01 New
              0
              Я и не призывал создавать боевой скафандр путём обследования керамическими плитками "Орлан" а. Но опыт создания скафандров у них есть и не только для выхода в открытый космос. А этот опыт можно использовать.
              By the way, as a really fantastic thing: I once met as a concept a variant of an infantry fighting vehicle with ejection seats in the landing, triggered by a mine or RPG explosion and with the possibility of conventional landing via a ramp.
              1. chunga-changa
                chunga-changa 12 January 2016 13: 13 New
                0
                Сам думал насчёт катапульт. По всему выходит очень дорого и есть момент - катапультирование технически произойдёт уже после подрыва, поэтому в лёгкой бронетехнике от него толку не будет, все умрут, а их трупы катапультируют. А вот для техники защищённой на уровне "арматы" может быть. Ну и опять же, катапульты появились когда стало просто невозможно покинуть самолёт обычным способом. Подготовка боевого лётчика оценивается в 1млн. долларов. Получалось что подготовленные, ценные кадры гибли при любой аварии или поражении самолёта. Да и лётчики думаю просто отказались бы летать на машинах которые в случае чего невозможно покинуть. С бронетехникой такой проблемы нет, подготовка экипажа гораздо дешевле, требования ниже и люки всегда есть. То что в лучшем случае спасается один из трёх это уже дело такое. В бронетехнике логичнее - отстреливающиеся люки и пружинные или пневматические кресла которые выдвигаются за пределы машины, а дальше, если живой - уже сам.
                1. Izotovp
                  Izotovp 14 January 2016 01: 59 New
                  0
                  Here a purely technical question arises: the speed of the pressure and temperature sensor and the speed of the ejection mechanism. Judging by the frames of the crash at the air show with the Su-27, the speed of the catapult is very high.
                  The cost of a modern qualified contractor has also increased (sorry for cynicism), but there is one more difficult question: if there is nothing above the airborne squad and where to fly, then where will the crew of the same tank be? There is a tower, or at least an gun barrel! This is the question of filling (((.
  • Taygerus
    Taygerus 9 January 2016 13: 00 New
    0
    Побольше нового в войска и техники и амуниции и боеприпасов, новость хорошая, России без сильной и современной армии никак нельзя выжить в сложившихся мировых условиях, особенно радуют новые в современной России разработки и дружный скулёж наших "партнеров" на их внедрение, статье плюс
  • 2s1122
    2s1122 9 January 2016 13: 01 New
    +1
    It’s a very nice form, green like that. Now there’s no reason for Europeans to be afraid of green men from grasshoppers laughing
    1. Nomad
      Nomad 9 January 2016 15: 14 New
      +1
      dreamed, the enemy is also a soldier, even if green, even red, you will not frighten anyone with color! So calm down
  • valokordin
    valokordin 9 January 2016 13: 19 New
    +2
    At least 10 thousand sets should be sent to Donetsk and Lugansk.
    1. Izotovp
      Izotovp 9 January 2016 13: 35 New
      0
      And who said that the vacationers are not there? repeat
      In any case, it was expected)))
    2. Mikhail Krapivin
      Mikhail Krapivin 9 January 2016 14: 12 New
      -2
      And for each kit in the kit paratrooper :) (I apologize for the tautology)
    3. Vadim237
      Vadim237 9 January 2016 14: 21 New
      0
      Expensive, there is one set, not complete, it will cost a million rubles.
  • Ugrumiy
    Ugrumiy 9 January 2016 13: 58 New
    -8
    It’s 80 thousand! For the whole year! Done achievement of the defense industry!
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 9 January 2016 14: 18 New
      0
      I wonder how many sets will be delivered this year.
      1. shans2
        shans2 9 January 2016 17: 13 New
        0
        capacities allow delivering up to 100 thousand sets per year, as they said.
  • Mikhail Krapivin
    Mikhail Krapivin 9 January 2016 14: 18 New
    0
    Everything is fine, a cool system, no questions. But there is so much electronics ... As if any clash has not turned into a fight by hackers - who better blinds, stuns, and deceives an enemy soldier sitting at the keyboard, and not on the battlefield. So that the soldier sees the targets where they are not there and that he himself crawls under the bullets ...
  • From Samara
    From Samara 9 January 2016 14: 27 New
    -2
    AK-all the same lobby in the person of Rogozin was sold ...
  • Nomad
    Nomad 9 January 2016 15: 05 New
    +2
    Nice kit, just do not like the color of camouflage! As a hunter, I know this color, the farther the blacker. From afar, the soldier will be like a black target. Americans have the color aku and cartoons, here are universal colors.
  • Siberia 9444
    Siberia 9444 9 January 2016 15: 14 New
    +1
    Normal per month is more than 6000 tons, but you also need + reserve, approximately how much, two million. Until 2020 they’ll do it.
  • Nomad
    Nomad 9 January 2016 15: 19 New
    0
    It is interesting whether the fabric is breathable or not, as I know for comfort the clothes should be breathable!
  • Leader
    Leader 9 January 2016 15: 23 New
    +2
    Why are the uniforms and equipment of the soldiers different from each other in the photo in the article?
    The glasses are different, the helmets are different, the KMF is different, on one there are no elbow pieces, the straps of the backpacks are different ...
    I thought the uniform should be uniform ...
    1. 11 black
      11 black 9 January 2016 15: 52 New
      0
      Quote: Leader
      Why are the uniforms and equipment of the soldiers different from each other in the photo in the article?
      The glasses are different, the helmets are different, the KMF is different, on one there are no elbow pieces, the straps of the backpacks are different ...
      I thought the uniform should be uniform ...

      Because the sniper is standing behind, I believe, the Warrior is individual for each military specialty, or maybe he just took off his guards
  • Ukropus
    Ukropus 9 January 2016 16: 17 New
    0

    Because the sniper is standing behind, I believe, the Warrior is individual for each military specialty, or maybe he just took off his guards

    And so the cover of the headphones acid-frog horizontal camouflage colors instead of a dark green numbers ??? And why on black ak an olive belt? Back in the 90s? Prefabricated hodgepodge ... although when the whole kit is dressed in the mind it looks great. Another thing is whether the membrane tissue, how well the seams are sewn and what is the overall wear resistance. Because if the prisoners sewed, then sadness (it used to be).
  • tinibar
    tinibar 9 January 2016 18: 26 New
    +1
    Quote: newly
    Quote: Vadim237
    Cartridges for this rifle are produced in Russia.

    And can you remember the plant?

    Tula Cartridge Plant hi
    1. newly
      newly 9 January 2016 18: 49 New
      -2
      Quote: tinibar
      Tula Cartridge Plant

      Разумеется. Раз винтовка оттуда. Только вот для армии такой "масштаб" выпуска патронов не подойдет.
  • Denis Skiff
    Denis Skiff 9 January 2016 18: 49 New
    +1
    The vending machine shop is wide. Is this photo or that?
    1. Siberia 9444
      Siberia 9444 9 January 2016 18: 52 New
      +3
      60 rounds not
  • Denis Skiff
    Denis Skiff 9 January 2016 19: 14 New
    +1
    Quote: newly
    Quote: Damm
    And what document regulates your notorious standard, whether it is a medical history. The warrior is sofa.

    A. This is a clear representative of the Pinocchio generation. Nifiga does not understand, but she knows everything. At the same time, it is extremely harsh and obese.
    Morally ready to crush everyone who knows something with asphalt rollers. To not protrude. And they were like everyone else, that is, like him. Harsh, but in the subject of conversation do not understand anything.

    Well, tell us ignorant how it turns out that against our ax with ballistics knowledge like yours, no one dared to shoot us with heaped up trash today? Yes you are in the subject, man.
    1. newly
      newly 9 January 2016 19: 36 New
      -4
      Quote: Denis-Skiff
      what against our ax

      Are you Denis Skif armed with an ax? Does the police know about this?
      Quote: Denis-Skiff
      nobody decided to shoot us with heaped up trash today?

      And why did you decide that someone is facing the task of you, the user Denis-Skif, to shoot? If there is firm confidence in this, then run to the police to write a statement.
      1. sharp-lad
        sharp-lad 9 January 2016 21: 00 New
        +1
        And I drive the ax in the car, well, cut the bushes, well, there, sharpen the pegs.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • maximka
    maximka 9 January 2016 20: 48 New
    +8
    I will not put my finger on the trigger until I am ready to shoot at the target !!!!!

    Four basic safety precautions written by the blood of victims of abuse of weapons:
    1. I will always handle weapons as if they are loaded.
    2. I will never point the weapon where I will not shoot.
    3. I will not put my finger on the trigger until I am ready to shoot at the target.
    4. Before you shoot, I will always check what is behind the target and in front of it.

  • The comment was deleted.
  • maximka
    maximka 9 January 2016 21: 09 New
    0
    I will not put my finger on the trigger until I am ready to shoot at the target !!!!!
    http://warfiles.ru/show-105112-ukrainskiy-soldat-na-blokpostu-otstrelil-sebe-yay
    ca.html

    Four basic safety precautions written by the blood of victims of abuse of weapons:
    1. I will always handle weapons as if they are loaded.
    2. I will never point the weapon where I will not shoot.
    3. I will not put my finger on the trigger until I am ready to shoot at the target.
    4. Before you shoot, I will always check what is behind the target and in front of it.

  • Andryukha G
    Andryukha G 9 January 2016 21: 29 New
    +1
    Quote: newly
    The world standard implies the arming of soldiers with full automatic weapons (fully SMG). Today there are several main options:
    1. This is an individual weapon on a 5,56 × 45 mm M193 cartridge with a barrel length of approximately 508 mm.
    2. This is an individual weapon on a 5,56 × 45 mm M855 cartridge with a barrel length of approximately 440 mm.
    3. This is an individual weapon on a 5,45 × 39 mm cartridge (3,4 g bullet) with a barrel length of approximately 590 mm. I warn you right away, RPK74 is not suitable here, the balance is not the same.
    Something I do not see such weapons. Maybe it is, but terribly secret?


    All over the world and even in Africa they know how recently your Bundeswehr guys screwed up (in Russian, of course, it sounds different) with their cool German assault rifles in Afghanistan, where they didn’t want to shoot at all (because of barrel overheating) at the attackers Mujahideen. And it is not surprising that Nevly has a rating of more than - 3000.
    1. newl
      newl 9 January 2016 22: 05 New
      -5
      Цитата: Андрюха Г
      All over the world and even in Africa they know how recently your Bundeswehr boys screwed up

      My bundeswehr boys? Why not yours?
      Цитата: Андрюха Г
      with their cool German assault rifles in Afghanistan, where they didn’t want to shoot at all (due to barrel overheating) at the attacking Mujahideen

      Теперь понял, что это за история. Это не ваши парни из бундесвера. Это ваши парни из US army. Спецназовцы. Кто-то додумался вооружить их легким оружием, чтобы на себе "лишнего" не таскать. Поэтому весьма экономично вооружились не М16А4, а М4А1. Все бы хорошо. Только вот М16А4 это fully SMG (автомат с баллистикой винтовки (полноценной )). А М4А1, это automatic short rifle (т.е. автоматический карабин). Оружие достаточно разное. Это не злой дядька забыл у М16А4 кусок ствола отпилить, это он такой и должен быть. Результат не заставил себя долго ждать. М4А1 более или менее серьезного боя не выдержал. Он на это и не рассчитан.
  • rJIiOK
    rJIiOK 9 January 2016 22: 17 New
    0
    Wow! Our very quickly turn over.
    At least it looks fast. I believe that scientists and the defense industry have worked for years for this.
  • Santjaga_Garka
    Santjaga_Garka 9 January 2016 23: 24 New
    +1
    In this regard, an old joke is recalled, a little conveyed:

    The American Army and the Russian meet:

    Americans: see how many of us, we are the whole Army, we have Airplanes-helicopters-tanks-armored personnel carriers-doh-era-all !!

    Russian, and usRat *)
  • Rossiyanin
    Rossiyanin 10 January 2016 00: 32 New
    +2
    Quote: newly
    Quote: Corporal Valera
    And if we talk about the world, Duc is 7,62x39

    Why write on topics in which you do not understand anything? In about 10 years, these 7,62x39 mm can only be read in special references. And collectors buy expensive.
    Quote: Corporal Valera
    This is not a world standard.

    This is a world standard. It is based on human physiology. There simply cannot be another (normal) one.

    Then catch my minus!
    1. newl
      newl 10 January 2016 00: 37 New
      -3
      Quote: Rossiyanin
      Then catch my minus!

      Oh God. How to live with it now?
  • Ugrumiy
    Ugrumiy 10 January 2016 04: 15 New
    -1
    Quote: rJIiOK
    Wow! Our very quickly turn over.
    At least it looks fast. I believe that scientists and the defense industry have worked for years for this.

    Не очень быстро и зачастую бестолково и с экономией не там где надо и всё это при наличии угрожаемого периода и предвоенной обстановки в мире. 80 тыс. комплектов это капля в море, к тому же качество у них гуляет,как и у новой формы. С "Ратником" телились чуть не десять лет, а то и больше, хотя в войсках он уже давно требовался, а сейчас петух жареный в ж... клюнул, так забегали.
  • astronom1973n
    astronom1973n 10 January 2016 06: 17 New
    +1
    Quote: newl
    Quote: avia1991
    And at the same time take an interest in why your Venezno special forces at the first opportunity throw away the vaunted M16 - and grab the AK47?

    Сами "страсти" выдумали? Давайте, продолжайте, у вас хорошо получается.
    Quote: avia1991
    There is something that the Internet rubs you - but there is a harsh combat experience. Which you obviously do not have! Therefore, do not build Xperd by rewriting someone else's stool here.

    Have you got it? Now drink the usual glass (which one today?) And calm down. You are our experienced. In this case.

    Вы уважаемый очень по манере Вашего изложения мыслей ,похожи на моего соседа по даче! Так вот ,он даже в армии не служил(а тем более не воевал),габаритами как слон,а рассуждает о физической подготовке и специальных профессиональных качествах как будто всю жизнь в боях провел!А про стаканчик коллегам ,это из разряда пошлых "подколок" про русского человека.Пьют ,что за ворот льют,не только русские.Есть ребятки и других национальностей ,которые это делают гораздо чаще и по объемам выпитого гораздо больше.Особенно мне было смешно услышать такую версию про алкоголь от бывших "соратников по оружию" из украины.Трезвенники б....
  • kos2cool4u
    kos2cool4u 10 January 2016 11: 22 New
    0
    Quote: Damm
    Similar to Orsis T 5000

    So it is - this is ORSIS (the best screwdriver in the world)
    1. Dam
      Dam 10 January 2016 22: 52 New
      +1
      Do not be like an American comrade. I would say: very good. But in the world there are many other worthy chatterboxes.
      1. lnew
        lnew 10 January 2016 23: 10 New
        -1
        Quote: Damm
        Do not be like an American comrade.

        А что, тот кто признает очевидный факт, это "американский товарищ"?
        А как называется тот, кто рассказывает сказки в стиле "советское, значит отличное"?
        1. Dam
          Dam 11 January 2016 01: 52 New
          -1
          I only recommend not using adjectives, the best, unprecedented, unique. If you read the comments above, I have Orsis. A good trunk, but to the best you still have to work
          1. lnew
            lnew 11 January 2016 02: 05 New
            0
            Quote: Damm
            I have an Orsis.

            Actually, I'm not talking about Orsis.
            I mean that the AK-74 can not stand any comparison with the M16A2 (and even M16A1). Simply because it is a weapon of different classes. M16A2 in terms of effective destruction is a step higher than the AK-74 (automatic rifle against an assault rifle) despite the fact that both of these samples are automatic. Those. have the same combat rate of fire.
            Считаете, что тот, кто признает этот очевидный факт, он "американский товарищ", шпиён и 38-я колонная слева? Считаете, что надо засунуть голову в песок и дурным голосом верещать, что все в этой области хорошо?
            1. Dam
              Dam 11 January 2016 14: 13 New
              0
              Read the above. Repeat laziness. This weapon, by virtue of the ammunition used, has a similar effective destruction distance. The sores and problems of the ammunition used are similar. Both trunks have strengths and weaknesses. But for a real war, where there is no way to clean weapons every day and comply with the regulations, where you crawl in the mud there is nowhere to go, I would prefer the reliability of AK, the greater accuracy of AR.
              1. newl
                newl 11 January 2016 14: 52 New
                0
                Quote: Damm
                This weapon, by virtue of the ammunition used, has a similar effective destruction distance.

                Really?
                But nothing that the DE M16A2 is 25,5% (!!!!!!!!) more than the AK-74?
                But is it that the M16A2 bullet is 17,5% heavier (!!!)?
                But nothing that the area of ​​the M16A2 bullet is 3% more?
                But is it not that the length of the M16A2 bullet is 11% less? Those. the resistance to its rotation in the victim’s body is less, which is good for fulfilling its tasks.
                Нифига себе "одинаковое оружие". Нифига себе "схожая дистанция поражения". С чего бы это? Ведь все основные характеристики сильно разные.
                Еще раз перечитайте написанное об "оружии разного класса с одинаковой скорострельностью". Там все правильно написано.
                Quote: Damm
                where you crawl in the mud for nowhere else, I prefer AK reliability

                And who told you that AK is more reliable? Feed the bikes from the Internet? In vain.
                Quote: Damm
                greater accuracy AR.

                By the way, the recoil momentum of the M16A2 is greater than that of the AK-74 by 14,5%. And accuracy at least is not worse. High-quality small arms, this, with all its deceptive simplicity, is a very complicated thing. Figs just like that, from the bulldozer, do it. Even with the help of Marxism-Leninism and Valentineism. With this garbage, only socialism could be built. However, also with a known result.
                1. Dam
                  Dam 11 January 2016 16: 42 New
                  -1
                  in view of the trunk. The issue of ammunition. Even warmint thick-stemmed shots do not shoot confidently beyond 400 meters. Confident destruction distance for 223 and 5,45 * 39 of automatic combat carbines is 300-350 meters. Further at the target there will be at best 10% of the issued store. Only the target does not run, does not hide and does not shoot in response. You Internet shooters very much rest in the behavior of a bullet in the victim’s body. There you need to get there first, and then anyway 5,45 or 5,56 will get there anyway. And in the body, small-caliber bullets do not rotate, but break down into somersaults or change the trajectory. If you knew at least a little ballistics, you would understand that the large length of the bullet makes it more stable in flight. I repeat once again: I not only read books, I shot more than 10000 223 and more than 8000 5,45 * 39. Therefore, do not tell me about reliability. Armi Daler’s arch begins to twist the cartridge and underload after 300 rounds without cleaning the barrel (despite the fact that the ammunition is not gross, but good)! Saigu, in principle, you can not clean the entire period of its operation (I saw such an experiment with my own eyes) and it shoots with cheap Barnaul and nothing happens. So go shoot not on the x box, but live, and then get smart
                  1. lnew
                    lnew 11 January 2016 18: 43 New
                    0
                    Quote: Damm
                    Even warmint thick-stemmed shots do not shoot confidently beyond 400 meters.

                    Have you tried it yourself? Ruler measured? Or just invented everything?
                    Quote: Damm
                    Confident destruction distance for 223 and 5,45 * 39 of automatic combat carbines - 300-350 meters

                    But the NSD is brazenly disagreeing with you. Insolently claims that you can also get on 500 meters.
                    Quote: Damm
                    and then 5,45 or 5,56 will get there anyway.

                    This is you to your neighbor on the staircase during a break, tell me.
                    Quote: Damm
                    do not rotate, but break down in somersault

                    Tumbling is a special case (one of the types) of rotation. Depends on the plane of rotation.
                    Quote: Damm
                    that the large length of the bullet makes it more stable in flight.

                    Actually, it was about wound ballistics. Those. about the behavior of the bullet after hitting the target. BоA longer bullet length (within reasonable limits) is a plus for external ballistics. No need to juggle.
                    The bullet becomes more stable in flight not from its length, but from the correct spin. A longer bullet usually has a higher ballistic coefficient. This is not stability, it is different.
                    Quote: Damm
                    I shot more than 10000 223 and more than 8000 5,45 * 39

                    Information is nothing.
                    Quote: Damm
                    begins to warp the cartridge and unload after 300 shots without cleaning the barrel

                    I understood you. In arms you are not boom-boom. You shoot in vain. Arm yourself with an ax. You can not clean it at all. And he, even dirty, will definitely not fail.
                    You are a caveman in terms of small arms. Your reasoning in this area is not just ridiculous, it is harmful. You are promoting the Stone Age in this area. In the event of a serious armed conflict, only horns and hooves will remain from people like you. And just at a distance of 400-450 meters.
  • kos2cool4u
    kos2cool4u 10 January 2016 11: 44 New
    0
    Quote: pilot8878
    Что же "суперсолдаты" стараются АК затрофеить

    Come on AK - they even try to squeeze PPSh to the heap as soon as possible :)))
    1. lnew
      lnew 10 January 2016 23: 14 New
      -2
      Quote: kos2cool4u
      Come on AK - they even try to squeeze PPSh to the heap as soon as possible :)))

      Yeah. And especially the slingshot from Korel birch.
      Why do they need this? He is almost completely unsuitable for warfare.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • D. Dan
    D. Dan 10 January 2016 15: 32 New
    0
    Greetings to all.
    As for the Warrior, thank God for such a reservation. At last. And the name is that.
    About the holivar, which was launched by a certain Newly from the USA.
    He sang here M16 A4. Well, I myself have a good opinion about this rifle. Although this is the same A2 with only a different body kit. I would not refuse to have her on the farm. With proper care and ... dust-free operation, a good weapon.
    Although A2 is already significantly brought to mind, and about operating conditions. Convenient, accurate. In its time, and even now the ergonomics are excellent, and the very idea of ​​a movable shutter, I consider it more advanced than a movable shutter frame. A bunch is better at times.
    Well, cartridge 223 is also a good cartridge.
    Only now she did not receive in the world of distribution. Why - yes dear she. Accurate, lethal. but darling. The service staff is moody. She will not be happy.
    And we have ... well, about the AK 12, the barrel is not bad, but still this is the AK, which has a place in the annals of history. But they will have to fight. BUT. This is not the class that M16. This is not a rifle. This is AUTOMATIC.
    1. lnew
      lnew 10 January 2016 19: 20 New
      -1
      Quote: D. Dan
      Someone Newly from the USA.

      And why from the USA, and not from Mukhosk?
      Quote: D. Dan
      but darling.

      All good is worth the money. Did not notice?
      Quote: D. Dan
      The service staff is moody.

      Yes? Have you tried reading gossip online?
      Quote: D. Dan
      She will not be happy.

      Now what is she doing? Misfortune?
      Quote: D. Dan
      Well, about AK 12, the barrel is not bad, but still this is AK, which has a place in the annals of history

      And here, to a point.
      Quote: D. Dan
      This is not the class that M16. This is not a rifle. This is AUTOMATIC.

      And here I will dwell in more detail:
      1. First, the obvious, M16A2, is an automatic machine. Those. Sub Machine Gun (SMG). And PPSh is an automatic machine. And Thompson's SMG, this is an automaton. And the MP40 is a machine gun. And even Fedorov’s ridiculous little stick on Arisak, it’s also an automaton. Those. automatic weapons with a combat rate of 80-100 rounds per minute.
      But M4A1, this is not an automatic machine. Those. not SMG. This is automatic short rifle (automatic carbine) But not automatic carbine, although there is no difference in the Russian translation. Therefore, for automatic carbine, it is recommended to use the term introduced in the middle of the last century by P. Kirali, an enthusiast of such weapons, as a machine-gun. So, automatic short rifle (automatic carbine) is a weapon with a combat rate of 60-80 rounds per minute.
      2. Combat rate of fire is an important, but not the only characteristic of small arms. Its equally important characteristic is the effective destruction range. Americans classify weapons based on this criterion, and the terms of the rate of fire of the type automatic rifle, Sub Machine Gun, selective-fire rifle, semi-automatic rifle you will find mainly in the specialized literature.
      According to this indicator, the M16A2 is a full-fledged automatic rifle, although it is on a cartridge of intermediate power (for Americans, the factor of the cartridge used does not matter at all; in this case, of course, a cartridge of a class higher than the final product, i.e. weapons, you will not meet them).
      M4A1 is an automatic short rifle (automatic carbine), because his performance characteristics are slightly worse and do not pull on an automatic rifle. Also sometimes used is the term automatic rifle - (minus automatic rifle). Automatic carbine is also sometimes written, although this is essentially not true. But they write, because true automatic carbine has not been commercially available for a long time and is gradually dying.
      The AK-74 is an assault rifle + (assault rifle +). Those. this weapon is a class lower than M16A2, with the same rate of fire. If we proceed only from their effective destruction range, then the AK-74 is worse and M4A1. But here the AK-74 has a high rate of fire, as it is an automaton.
      The AK-47 and StG44 (and AF on Arisaka, if that) can only be attributed to assault rifles thanks to the propaganda efforts of Dr. Goebbels. Anyway, at a range of 300-330 m, it is almost impossible to get out of them somewhere with automatic fire. And from AF it was also not worth it to strain, because he had an effective damage range of about 170 m. Which is completely unacceptable for an intermediate power cartridge.
      1. Dam
        Dam 11 January 2016 17: 02 New
        0
        Damn experts: the concept of a rifle or carbine is determined by the ratio of the length of the barrel to its caliber 40-50 caliber carbine, more rifle. We look at the manual on shooting business for AK 47. We look at the exercise growth target 300 m. Shooting bursts. Mr. freak go ass
        1. lnew
          lnew 11 January 2016 18: 20 New
          -1
          Quote: Damm
          the concept of a rifle or carbine is determined by the ratio of the barrel length to its caliber 40-50 caliber carbine, more rifle.

          Мальчонка, изучи, чем carbine отличается от short rifle. По-русски это все переводится, как "карабин". А потом мельтеши, Промакашка.
          Блин, ну откуда беруться подобные эксПёрды? Нифига не знают, а только "комментарии привильные пишут".
          Quote: Damm
          We watch the exercise growth target 300 m.

          Boy, how many times do you need to bother about a distance of 400-450 meters in your head so that you already understand once that 300 meters is not a range for the main army weapons?
          Quote: Damm
          Mr. freak go ass

          Too bad we are on the internet.
  • Assistant
    Assistant 10 January 2016 15: 45 New
    0
    Так какой автомат всё-таки в комплекте "Ратника"?
  • D. Dan
    D. Dan 10 January 2016 16: 30 New
    +1
    So AK 12 though.
    With balanced automation cal 5.45. Well, other weapons, such as the same Orsis 5000. OUR weapons wink
    1. Assistant
      Assistant 10 January 2016 19: 38 New
      0
      So AK 12 though.
      With balanced automation cal 5.45.


      And when did they manage to insert balanced automation on the AK-12?
      1. lnew
        lnew 10 January 2016 20: 24 New
        -1
        Quote: Assistant
        And when did they manage to insert balanced automation on the AK-12?

        Never. Apparently, therefore, the conditions of the competition were what they were.
      2. Egor123
        Egor123 11 January 2016 13: 59 New
        0
        yes, a long time ago wink
  • robinson
    robinson 13 January 2016 22: 32 New
    0
    Quote: Asadullah
    Well so, you know how the raid operation differs from the assault operation?

    Shura, own. In the photo is the 3rd GMBR of the 181st regiment. Raid, from the Hindu Kush to the Bagram green, etc. there are all kinds of forests in Khost ...