Military Review

"Minsk-2" is almost invisible ...

64
After 1, January, the world in Ukraine is held on a verbally prolonged thread of the Minsk agreements. In addition, it is being tested in January frosts, and the agreement on mutual electricity flows between Russia and Ukraine has not been concluded. Due to the termination by Ukraine of electricity supplies to the Crimea. Plus, the default has just been a Euro-associated Bandera Krajina in front of Russia. While all this has no consequences, maybe just the New Year holidays are not over yet?




The position of Russia has long been set out by Sergey Lavrov, it remains unchanged: “Minsk-2 is a complex of measures, everything should be fair, this time”. That is, it will end with the recognition by Kiev of the Donetsk and Lugansk republics. Such a scenario does not suit Kiev for ideological reasons, but formally “Minsk-2” has ended ...

Recall that the Kiev junta fell into the Minsk trap after Poroshenko’s call to Washington, apparently, to US Vice President Joe Biden, who sanctioned it. Why? Apparently, they hoped that all the agreements of “Minsk” would be written off by the war, the summer campaign of 2015 of the year, which ... the chancellor of Germany Merkel had frustrated by calling Poroshenko to Berlin “on the carpet” of August August, after the call of Vladimir Putin ...

One way or another, the summer offensive of the Armed Forces of Ukraine did not take place; moreover, a real truce was established for the first time in the Donbass on September 1: for quite a long time, the front line was really quiet. True, as if in retaliation for Germany, there was an autumn invasion of Middle Eastern migrants through Turkey to Europe, the ultimate goal of which was precisely Germany.

The Kiev regime, probably, has not yet decided what to do with the Minsk agreements. Nazi patriots are pushing him towards the demonstrative denunciation of the Minsk-2. But the January frosts and energy fears force Kiev to winter prudence.

All “think tanks”, of course, analyze the question: what could be after the breakdown of the Minsk agreements?

Russia may deny the Kiev regime of legitimacy, and blame the revival of Bandera neo-Nazism. Judging by the phrases about Putin “of the NATO Legion” in Ukraine, and “the so-called volunteer battalions” that slipped through Putin, Moscow has a corresponding “plan B” for this case.

Vladimir Putin expressed himself in a similar way before the conclusion of the Second Minsk Agreements, that is, Moscow was ready at that moment to take decisive action in Ukraine, once used such definitions of the Kiev regime. After the "Minsk-2" close to the neo-fascist definitions of the Kiev authorities disappeared from the lexicon of Vladimir Putin. Why? “I have no right to emotions,” Putin answered this question in an interview with V. Solovyov in his film “World Order”.

However, Kiev’s charges of neo-Nazism may return to Putin’s political dictionary, and to our Foreign Ministry, after the breakdown of the Minsk agreements. With all the political and even military consequences. Just before the New Year, the Russian Foreign Ministry made a remarkable statement in this regard: “Europe has done nothing to encourage Kiev to execute Minsk.” That is, to abandon their neo-Nazi manners. One of the variants of such a development of events may be the recognition by Moscow of the Donetsk and Lugansk republics, regardless of the reaction of the Western community to this. According to the results of the elections, or based on the current military-political situation.

West after the breakdown of "Minsk" is also likely to change its strategy. European Commissioner for Trade Malström defiantly interrupted the tripartite negotiations on the Euro-Association of Ukraine, also before the New Year, saying “game over” to Russia, the game is over, this is diplomatic rudeness, and it speaks about the mood of the Brussels leadership: after the “Minsk” the European Union can begin a more rigid game with Russia. Question: what game and how much will it be coordinated with Washington? Which has already begun to prepare for the presidential election. And what does Chancellor Merkel think about this?

Break Kiev-2 Kiev can in two ways. For example, short-term resumption of hostilities, after some noisy provocation. Blame Moscow for military exacerbation and thus obtain an excuse for quitting the Minsk agreements.

Kiev may withdraw from “Minsk” even without the resumption of hostilities, ostentatiously, simply because Russia allegedly does not fulfill its “obligations” if it is confident of connivance and support from the West. Since, formally, the blame in this case falls on Kiev, because it is he who announces the withdrawal from the Minsk agreements. Slipping out of the Minsk trap, Kiev will get the desired freedom of hands, but for what?

For the resumption of hostilities in the Donbas? Their result is unpredictable ... It seems that Kiev is more profitable hotbed of tension in the Donbass, for inducing propaganda hysteria in the country.

Obviously, the disruption of the Minsk agreements will fulfill the requirements of the Bandera neo-Nazis, and will increase the degree of tension in Ukraine. But the resumption of a large-scale war "to the bitter end" on the initiative of the Kiev junta seems unlikely. If only because the presidential election in the United States this year, and Vice President Joe Biden explicitly told the Banderovites in his last visit, that America, of course, will help them, but they should only rely on themselves. And even strive to perform "Minsk".

However, the opposite scenario is possible: Washington can lie. Due to the aggravation of his own political and financial instability, he can take a global course on confrontation and the resumption of all possible wars in order to disrupt the normal democratic electoral process in the United States and predetermine the results of the presidential elections, eliminating any chance in the form of Donald Trump.

Then the disruption of the Minsk agreements will be sanctioned by Washington, and will be the prologue to a full-scale war involving Russia in Ukraine, but not with Ukraine, as Vladimir Putin said, but with the “NATO legion” in Ukraine. Feel the difference…
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  1. aszzz888
    aszzz888 7 January 2016 08: 01 New
    13
    It would not be desirable to think about the best outcome of events in the Donbass, but it’s quite obvious that the mericatos just don’t get off the Ukronazists, and will force them to do what the mericatos themselves come up with.
    1. NIKNN
      NIKNN 7 January 2016 11: 35 New
      +9
      Quote: aszzz888
      It would not be desirable to think about the best outcome of events in the Donbass, but it’s quite obvious that the mericatos just don’t get off the Ukronazists, and will force them to do what the mericatos themselves come up with.

      There, apart from pulling away the rest, you can’t imagine anything else, well, you can create a base for the isles. And at the expense of aggression, so the bulb before burning out always burns brighter.
      According to astrologers, in 2017 Ukraine will become Russia. Just do not understand, do we need it? request
      1. remy
        remy 7 January 2016 17: 21 New
        0
        if the war starts again. it will very quickly go into the defensive phase on both sides!
        for example:
        - BC prepared for operational mining for operational mining
        - NE mastered NVD both tactical and stationary, counter-battery and infantry radars
        - UAVs are interfaced with KP of MSA
        - EW
        . and why am I crucifying it here, in general this is all classified information!
  2. Riv
    Riv 7 January 2016 08: 03 New
    -7
    Why is everyone so stuck in this "full-scale war"? According to the most conservative estimates, the operation requires a grouping of half a million people. This is even more modest than the modest one, and taking into account the fact that the main forces of the ukrovermacht are shackled in the Donbass. It is unlikely that Russia will be able to allocate such forces now, which means that the comedy called "Minsk-2" will continue. Most likely, until Donbass builds up enough muscle to defeat the enemy on its own, and then ensure the suppression of resistance in the occupied territories.

    For those interested in military history and figures I can recommend "Strike on Ukraine. Wehrmacht against the Red Army." Author: Runov. It is quite relevant today, of course, adjusted for the level of technology.
    1. svp67
      svp67 7 January 2016 08: 42 New
      17
      Quote: Riv
      According to the most conservative estimates, an operation needs a grouping of half a million people.

      You live by the standards of the Second World War. When using modern methods of warfare, it is not necessary to drive as many people there, a group to solve such a local task as the liberation and retention of the entire territory of Donbass, including the Lugansk region, is required much less.
      1. Riv
        Riv 7 January 2016 12: 24 New
        12
        So after all, the occupation of the territory now is no different from that during the Second World War. How many of our explosives were in Chechnya? How many cops went on business trips? And Hohland - it will be a little bigger than Chechnya.

        Strategists, all by the Order of the "Battle Hamster"!
        1. Dry_T-50
          Dry_T-50 7 January 2016 15: 45 New
          -1
          Quote: Riv
          And Khokhlyandiya - it will be a little bigger than Chechnya.

          Georgia was lowered by the forces of one army and the Abkhaz-Ossetian militias. Let us assume that Ukraine (naturally, we do not take into account the Crimea, it is ours forever) is Georgia's 24. and then resources will be needed much less than 24 armies
          1. 72jora72
            72jora72 7 January 2016 17: 17 New
            +8
            Georgia lowered by the forces of one army and Abkhaz-Ossetian militias
            With all due respect ... do not confuse the soft with the warm ....
            1. Cap.Morgan
              Cap.Morgan 7 January 2016 17: 30 New
              +1
              This is yes.
              Ukraine is not like Chechnya, but Georgia did not stand next to it either. Not that mentality.
        2. svp67
          svp67 7 January 2016 17: 51 New
          +3
          Quote: Riv
          How many of our explosives were in Chechnya?

          And how many? The entire number of explosives is about 200 people. I hope you don’t think that they will be thrown all over to solve a similar problem?
          Quote: Riv
          How many cops went on business trips?
          That's exactly what went on a rotational basis.
          Quote: Riv
          Strategists, all by the Order of the "Battle Hamster"!

          So I understand you are the full holder of this award?
          1. Riv
            Riv 8 January 2016 08: 13 New
            +4
            You see, comrade, you yourself confirm my innocence. The number of Russian explosives is clearly not enough to ensure occupation measures on such a large territory as Ukraine, and the problem is not solved by the cops. It is proved by the same Chechnya. There, after all, I still had to return to the local formations.

            The solution to the problem is trivial: you need to use local resources. And no one is better than Donetsk for the role of military police. An analogue of the Geheimestadt policeman in the occupied territory can also be entrusted to them. And our explosives will be able to fulfill the function of control and prevent absolutely brutal excesses. On the little things like shootings of pravoseki when trying to escape and suicide from three machine guns at once - close your eyes.

            In general, one should often turn to the experience of Vermach, and in twenty years in Ukraine there will be silence and grace.
        3. Travian
          Travian 8 January 2016 19: 34 New
          0
          about 100 thousand people at a time
    2. stopkran
      stopkran 7 January 2016 09: 24 New
      13
      Yeah, collect 500 thousand and drive on the offensive with machine guns across a minefield ...)) Isn't it easier to "hit the headquarters" or even easier to carry out an operation "under a false flag" right in Kiev, like our American "partners"?
    3. atos_kin
      atos_kin 7 January 2016 11: 09 New
      -1
      A couple of "Calibers" and two shelves of the Ministry of Emergency Situations are enough for distributing diapers.
    4. bistrov.
      bistrov. 7 January 2016 11: 45 New
      10
      Quote: Riv
      According to the most conservative estimates, the operation needs a grouping of half a million people

      Are you thinking of fighting a Red Army soldier of 30 years with a three-line ?. One tank division with attached units, an aviation bomber regiment, two airborne regiments thrown out to Kiev and Odessa and a coordinated strike with the army of Novorossiya are enough. "Ukraine" can be borrowed in a week. Then, however, work will come for the FSB, to arrest and neutralize all sorts of Banders.
      1. Sailor
        Sailor 7 January 2016 15: 10 New
        +3
        Your assumptions need to be doubled then probably will be enough, but the staff of the FSB needs a lot.
      2. Dry_T-50
        Dry_T-50 7 January 2016 15: 46 New
        +5
        Quote: bistrov.
        Then, however, work will come for the FSB, to arrest and neutralize all kinds of bander.

        This is the biggest threat. If the population is not loyal, then the losses increase many times
        1. bistrov.
          bistrov. 7 January 2016 16: 02 New
          +8
          Quote: Sukhoy_T-50
          If the population is not loyal, then the losses increase many times

          Well, I do not know the Ukrainians? It is enough to change the central leadership on the ground, and to isolate the most notorious outcasts, such as Korchinsky from society, no one will even rock the boat.
          1. alexs1833
            alexs1833 10 January 2016 01: 46 New
            0
            that's for sure. The media will connect their own and immediately everyone will love Russia and Putin will almost become a god with them.
      3. maxim1987
        maxim1987 7 January 2016 16: 56 New
        0
        Quote: bistrov.
        Then, however, work will come for the FSB, to arrest and neutralize all kinds of bander.


        EXPLOIT BANDERS AND LOVERS OF THE COMPOT FROM THE BLOOD OF RUSSIAN INFANTS FROM APARTMENTS, AND INSERT REFUGEES FROM DONBASS. IT IS POSSIBLE TO ESTABLISH AN AUTONOMOUS REPUBLIC OF GERMANS OF UNDERWEAR (INFA WAS THEREOUS THOUSAND THOUSAND GERMANS ARE READY TO COME TO RUSSIA)
        1. bistrov.
          bistrov. 7 January 2016 18: 49 New
          +5
          Why evict? We will give work, plow the land, lay bricks, there is nothing to hang around on the "Maidans", you see, brains will fall into place.
          1. 97110
            97110 8 January 2016 13: 47 New
            +1
            Quote: bistrov.
            Let's give work

            Who will give? Kolomoisky? Akhmetov? Prokhorov with Abramovich? And if Maxim will face sanctions? Or the budget of the Russian Federation? And in what part - the Ministry of Defense or the Ministry of Emergencies?
          2. Victor Demchenko
            Victor Demchenko 8 January 2016 17: 43 New
            +4
            and you think will be work?Yes, not in the heat! Well this is not to ride on the Maidan, because here you need to work with your head, and there only legs and ass! (after cookies, it’s diarrhea happening!) wink
      4. Cap.Morgan
        Cap.Morgan 7 January 2016 17: 32 New
        +8
        The FSB in Ukraine has many helpers. Including from the ranks of the same Bander.
        1. alexs1833
          alexs1833 10 January 2016 01: 48 New
          0
          Well, they love repainting. I immediately remember the Wedding in Robin. laughing
      5. svp67
        svp67 7 January 2016 17: 54 New
        +3
        Quote: bistrov.
        One tank division with attached units, an aviation bomber regiment, two airborne regiments deployed to Kiev and Odessa are enough

        Respected. No one will go on such adventures now. Moreover, your plan is absolutely nonsense.
        1. bistrov.
          bistrov. 7 January 2016 18: 53 New
          +3
          And who are you here? "Suvorov"? "Stalin"? A gamble is to leave Russian people to their fate and allow them to be mocked. Not only a gamble, but also a crime.
          1. Victor Demchenko
            Victor Demchenko 8 January 2016 17: 46 New
            +2
            so these "Russian" people themselves do not want to live a normal life. watch reports from the outskirts, what read their forums, the same Genichesky website and forum look request and ... draw conclusions! No.
    5. Alekseev
      Alekseev 8 January 2016 11: 02 New
      +2
      Quote: Riv
      Why is everyone so stuck in this "full-scale war"? According to the most conservative estimates, the operation requires a grouping of half a million people.


      Quote: svp67
      You live by the standards of the Second World War.

      That's right! hi
      To defeat the forces of the so-called ATO in the Donbass, "half a million people" are not needed. After all, we are not talking about the capture of Kharkov and Kiev.
      We need an effective fire defeat to the entire depth of the operational formation and isolation of the combat area by reconnaissance-strike complexes or aircraft.
      The militias will not take large cities in the Donbass, and they will shoot from the windows and sheds rather towards ukrovsk.
      The rest of Ukraine should mature and take, though with the help of the Russian Federation, itself.
      In the article, however, there is some disagreement about the assertion that the summer offensive of the Armed Forces of Ukraine "... was thwarted by German Chancellor Merkel."
      Merkel is very dependent on the United States is not quite an independent figure. And there was an opinion, which is probably closer to the truth, that the offensive was not thwarted by Merkel, but by two rather powerful arthurs in the areas of concentration of ukrovsk.
      As for the Minsk Agreements, any agreements, treaties, court decisions are executed only when the parties concerned are interested in their implementation. Well, or when it is possible to force them to be executed.
      Therefore, first military-political and economic coercion, and then there will be agreements. Definitely executable.
      1. Riv
        Riv 8 January 2016 15: 56 New
        +5
        Another Order of the "Battle Hamster" - in the studio!

        The recipe is ready. Three days - and Ukraine falls to its feet, I don’t know who. :))) What if it doesn’t fall? Suddenly in Kiev, in Kharkov, in Lviv will each window really shoot? In Grozny, as it were, shooting ... What then? To smash the city, burn the band from the holes with napalm? It is possible, but then who will restore the ruins?

        And you really have to take cities. These are transport junctions, without which it is impossible to supply the advancing troops. Why did Ukrainians stomp around Slavyansk for two months? Because it didn’t work out to take it in a daring raid, like Mariupol (well, honor and praise to Strelkov!) And to take it by storm meant to get the ruins and then restore the entire transport infrastructure. So they squeezed Strelkova as they could. And our band will have to squeeze the same way.
  3. Alexei
    Alexei 7 January 2016 08: 08 New
    +2
    True, as if in retaliation for Germany, the autumn invasion of Middle Eastern migrants through Turkey to Europe took place, the ultimate goal of which was precisely Germany.
    So this is what crush EU politicians trying to pursue their policies ... Sadly, on the other hand, what trump cards appear in the hands of the opposition in the EU countries.
    1. Niki
      Niki 7 January 2016 10: 59 New
      0
      trump cards for what? to ignite some other Maidan, but certainly in Europe?
  4. Same lech
    Same lech 7 January 2016 08: 10 New
    +9
    “Minsk-2 is a complex of measures, everything should be honest this time.”


    Why laugh ... Biden will come again with DRANG NAH OSTEN plans and you will be honest with all the new shelling and killings of the inhabitants of the DPR and LPR .... how long can this topic be procrastinated.
  5. rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 7 January 2016 08: 26 New
    +3
    It is clear that the situation in Donbass and the implementation of the agreements completely depend on Washington's position. And the United States has seven Fridays a week. Today they want one thing, tomorrow another. Therefore, it is not worth making a forecast about a "full-scale war". Let's see in reality how events will develop.
    1. Gardamir
      Gardamir 7 January 2016 09: 04 New
      +9
      It is clear that both the situation in the Donbass and the implementation of agreements completely depend on Washington’s position
      Eh, will those times come when something will depend on Russia too?
  6. Zomanus
    Zomanus 7 January 2016 08: 32 New
    +9
    They forgot to indicate in the article that now, not only Kuev’s hands are untied ...
    Zakharchenko clearly said that now the answer will be proportional.
  7. Korsar4
    Korsar4 7 January 2016 08: 35 New
    +4
    Let this thread hold on. People - a peaceful life. Merry Christmas!
  8. parusnik
    parusnik 7 January 2016 09: 04 New
    +2
    To tear off "Minsk-2" Kiev can be twofold... And Minsk is already ripped off ... more precisely, it is in limbo .. The document on the extension was not signed .. Accepted in words .. Formally .. the junta has every reason for war .. LDNR .. would hold out until the referendum in the Netherlands ..on it will decide whether the Dutch agree on Ukraine joining the EU .. if the Dutch Ukrainians say no ... but this is quite possible ... with high probability .. the door to the EU will shut down .. Therefore, the junties and in a hurry provoke continuation war and Russian intervention ...
    1. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 8 January 2016 18: 14 New
      +2
      A referendum in the Netherlands on the association of Ukraine and the EU, and not on joining the EU.
  9. Platonich
    Platonich 7 January 2016 09: 04 New
    13
    But in fact, long ago it would have been necessary to recognize the LPR and the DPR! And everything would be alright. Because they will have to be recognized anyway, otherwise Khan !!!
    1. Travian
      Travian 8 January 2016 19: 42 New
      0
      this is still an unrealized argument in the hands of the Kremlin, followed by recognition should be the introduction of Russian troops to help LDNR, with a partial, at the first stage, mobilization of reservists in Russia .... Ready ???
  10. would
    would 7 January 2016 09: 27 New
    +6
    I.e. end recognition of the Donetsk and Lugansk republics by Kiev. Such a scenario does not suit Kiev for ideological reasons, but formally “Minsk-2” has ended ...


    And now we open the text of the second Minsk agreement and try to find there a "Donetsk and Lugansk republic", oh!

    4. On the first day after the challenge, start a dialogue on the modalities of holding local elections in accordance with Ukrainian legislation and the Law of Ukraine “On the temporary procedure for local self-government in Separate areas of Donetsk and Lugansk regions»


    5. Ensure pardon and amnesty by the enactment of a law prohibiting the prosecution and punishment of persons in connection with events that occurred in certain areas of Donetsk and Lugansk regions of Ukraine.


    There are no republics in the second Minsk conspiracy, there are only separate areas of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions of Ukraine. In short, according to the Minsk conspiracy, the DPR and LPR (which no one recognizes) are thrust back into the Bandera-"European" Ukraine ... fate is good, for the sake of it, apparently, one must strive almighty to fulfill the Minsk agreements and grieve about their failure. Only here people who disagree with this not only did not ask, but did not even remember. And those who gave their lives for opposing the Minsk agreement were not remembered either ...
    1. Chak
      Chak 7 January 2016 11: 24 New
      +6
      Rait, totally agree! First, we betray our brothers, handing them back to the Kiev executioners, then we will wonder why they hate us. So it was with Cuba, with Libya, Iraq, Iran, Serbia, with Ukraine, which we surrendered in '91. If we have already jumped out from under the Washington regional committee, then we must bend our line, otherwise they will crush it. Impudent people fear and respect only power.
      1. Dry_T-50
        Dry_T-50 7 January 2016 15: 49 New
        +5
        Quote: ChAK
        If we have already jumped out from under the Washington Regional Committee, then we must bend our line, otherwise we will crush. Insolence fear and respect only force.

        The share of foreign capital in the economy of the Russian Federation is 40%. If you pull out all these threads, Russia risks to be in 98 year. And about the 5 column, too, do not forget
        1. Travian
          Travian 8 January 2016 19: 43 New
          +1
          I’m afraid that I’ll have to break all ties with the West, we won’t be left with a choice ...
    2. Dry_T-50
      Dry_T-50 7 January 2016 15: 48 New
      +2
      Quote: rait
      I.e. end recognition of the Donetsk and Lugansk republics by Kiev. Such a scenario does not suit Kiev for ideological reasons, but formally “Minsk-2” has ended ...


      And now we open the text of the second Minsk agreement and try to find there a "Donetsk and Lugansk republic", oh!

      4. On the first day after the challenge, start a dialogue on the modalities of holding local elections in accordance with Ukrainian legislation and the Law of Ukraine “On the temporary procedure for local self-government in Separate areas of Donetsk and Lugansk regions»


      5. Ensure pardon and amnesty by the enactment of a law prohibiting the prosecution and punishment of persons in connection with events that occurred in certain areas of Donetsk and Lugansk regions of Ukraine.


      There are no republics in the second Minsk conspiracy, there are only separate areas of the Donetsk and Lugansk regions of Ukraine. In short, according to the Minsk conspiracy, the DPR and LPR (which no one recognizes) are thrust back into the Bandera-"European" Ukraine ... fate is good, for the sake of it, apparently, one must strive almighty to fulfill the Minsk agreements and grieve about their failure. Only here people who disagree with this not only did not ask, but did not even remember. And those who gave their lives for opposing the Minsk agreement were not remembered either ...

      But Russia will have friendly forces in Ukraine, which are now ready to lay down their lives for the DLNR
      1. would
        would 8 January 2016 02: 22 New
        +2
        What are the friendly forces? Something I doubt that after the treacherous betrayal, someone there will remain friendly to Russia, especially after Bandera continue to attack "certain areas of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions" only this time it is quite possible that they will be able to take power, and if they will be prevented from sending the golden eagle. This is the territory of Ukraine, they have the right.

        And there will be those already unfriendly forces (which in the best case will not hate Russia, but I doubt it) live under the completely occupying Ukrainian government, which hated them, hates them, and will continue to hate them with all the consequences.
  11. Dave36
    Dave36 7 January 2016 09: 46 New
    +9
    Moscow with its super diplomats has long been in the ass ... An electricity survey, free gas ... this is real PPC ... like in a pan. Ukrainians go step by step towards confrontation ... and we took the Crimea and declare them brothers ... laughter .. And Minsk 2 is also a laugh ...
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 7 January 2016 10: 25 New
      +3
      Upstairs, we still hope that the people of Ukraine, most of it, will come to their senses.
      1. Tambov Wolf
        Tambov Wolf 7 January 2016 10: 43 New
        +7
        Well, yes, the hopes of the lovers are nourishing. They hope that oil will rise in price, they hope that the "friends and partners" will lift the sanctions, they hope in the Lord God, they hope the winter will be warm, the rain will pass in the summer. In short, they hope for everything to do nothing for the country. But when touches the cabbage to cut down, then they walk over the corpses and everything is thrown aside. Here are our "hopes and support" above.
      2. Travian
        Travian 8 January 2016 19: 48 New
        +1
        it's time to conduct a survey in Ukraine and find out how many people the army of the Russian Federation will support if it appears in Kharkiv, Ekatirenoslav, Zaporozhye, Kherson, Odessa .... and if 50%, then you need to reunite the divided Russian people.
  12. Egoza
    Egoza 7 January 2016 10: 01 New
    18
    It won't be long before they admit that all these Minsky were the greatest mistake that played into the hands of the United States. What was worth supporting at the very beginning the FULL liberation of the republics? Are you afraid that the socialist republic will become? Didn't you want to spoil relations with the USA while the SHELL company was there? Pleased your oligarchs? And how many guys died !!! REAL PEOPLE !!! And no matter how they justify all this with the "cunning plan" of the GDP, which expects Ukraine to disintegrate itself, the lives of these guys are on its conscience! Yes, if these two republics had ALREADY been liberated, and not their remnants, Ukraine would have disintegrated twice as fast! And it would have moved faster under the arm of Moscow, except for the Bandera memory. The Kiev region would remain. with a gulkin nose as "Ukraine" and even then not a fact.
    1. atos_kin
      atos_kin 7 January 2016 11: 24 New
      17
      The adoption under the "wing" of the fugitive Yanukovosch and the simultaneous recognition of the "legitimacy" of the junta is a "masterpiece of" foreign "policy" in relation to one fraternal people divided during the collapse of the USSR. The word "partners" after that will become a dirty word for many years, as well as "perestroika" with the author's character still not hanged.
    2. 406ppm2gv
      406ppm2gv 7 January 2016 13: 04 New
      +4
      I can't put more than one "+"! bull's-eye.
    3. TOR2
      TOR2 7 January 2016 17: 31 New
      +4
      Quote: Egoza
      Yes, if these two republics had already been freed, and not their bits, Ukraine would have broken up twice as fast!

      Not so simple. If we take the same losses of LDNR according to Debaltseve, they are not acceptable and this is a fact. Will the LDNR army be able to control the entire territory of the Lugansk and Donetsk regions? We will need the sun technically superior level. What can we talk about when the emergence of power structures of the LNR comes with a creak.
    4. Sergej1972
      Sergej1972 8 January 2016 18: 27 New
      +1
      Ukraine will be preserved in any situation, possibly without New Russia or its part, possibly without Slobozhanshchina or its part. But Ukraine itself, as a part of 10-15 current regions of Ukraine, which are undoubtedly Ukrainian according to people's self-awareness, will remain. And if this undeniably Ukrainian territory enters the Russian Federation, it will still be Ukraine, only Russian. Or Ukraine itself will be divided into Russian and independent parts. Not excluded is the option of not entering the Russian Federation, but of creating a union state as part of the Russian Federation, Ukraine, Belarus. In the event of joining the Russian Federation or the Union State, Ukraine has a chance to retain within its territory and a significant, if not more, part of Novorossia and Slobozhanshchina.
      Although more realistic, most likely, the following: independent Ukraine will remain, from which part of the territories will fall away. But most of the territories and population will remain with it. The option of maintaining the current status quo is not ruled out.
  13. Junior, I
    Junior, I 7 January 2016 11: 58 New
    +3
    It is generally beneficial for Americans to keep this hearth in a smoldering state. They have not yet prepared a foothold in other sections in order to divide the power of Russia into sections.
    So they will try to maintain the foci at times.
    And if the legion or something else, then it will all sink into oblivion, soon.
    This rabbit and piggy are jumping, Winnie the Pooh will turn these mink dancers when they come !!!
    1. Worohilow
      Worohilow 7 January 2016 15: 11 New
      0
      Homegrown strategists (sofas) are not dominoes for you .. laughing
  14. Dry_T-50
    Dry_T-50 7 January 2016 15: 53 New
    +9
    Forget all the fables about the self-disintegration of Ukraine. As long as the United States holds it, it will be in the ass, but there will be no division. For disintegration, it is necessary to sow discord among the elites, and the people are already disappointed in Poroshenko and Yatsenyuk. But forget about the "people's maidan"
  15. Karabin
    Karabin 7 January 2016 16: 10 New
    11
    Plus the default of the just-euro-associated Bandera Krajina to Russia.

    So what? Well, the dill of the Russian Federation does not pay, and what of this? Doesn’t receive gas? It receives at a price and at a discount, which was not even dreamed of when yanke. The IMF turned away or the states? Not at all. The mode is supported, and apparently will last a long time.
    Russia may deny legitimacy to the Kiev regime,
    This is how, after fully recognized? And even if he finds a way to refuse, what are very big doubts, who will be interested? The islands of Nauru?
    Moscow has a corresponding “plan B” for this case.
    Yeah, he's the Tricky Plan, he's a chess move. That is nothing. In the year 14, the Kremlin got scared of the Russian Spring to wet diapers, that's all options A, B and C.
  16. vv3
    vv3 7 January 2016 17: 25 New
    +2
    I don’t understand the author what Kiev is talking about. Before us are American dolls, who, under the guise of leadership, are killing, or rather, killing Ukraine. The most incomprehensible is that 95% of the population of Ukraine is sleeping, or rather, like sheep, waiting for something Someone will come and fix it ... Which Minsk? ... The whole Geyopa is also American dolls, only VIP status ... If Russia, as they cry, a participant in the conflict, it might be time to restore order in the Donbass. we don’t lose anything. Create a security zone, warn all first amers, and bring down any equipment and armed detachments in this zone and outside this zone who shoot in the direction of Donbass. It is merciless and every time to show the past shots of the killing of Donetsk, convincing everyone of the most humane goals-saving people's lives.
  17. MIKHALYCH1
    MIKHALYCH1 7 January 2016 18: 41 New
    +8
    How correctly Putin spoke recently about Syria "Grandma said in two .." laughing laughing
  18. Cobra77
    Cobra77 8 January 2016 02: 11 New
    0
    Quote: TOR2
    Quote: Egoza
    Yes, if these two republics had already been freed, and not their bits, Ukraine would have broken up twice as fast!

    Not so simple. If we take the same losses of LDNR according to Debaltseve, they are not acceptable and this is a fact. Will the LDNR army be able to control the entire territory of the Lugansk and Donetsk regions? We will need the sun technically superior level. What can we talk about when the emergence of power structures of the LNR comes with a creak.


    And what is their unacceptability? Do you seriously consider a couple of thousand inapplicable losses? Then we are not ready to fight at all. War is blood, often quite large. But it is important why it pours. What is the result. That's why the blood poured and poured in the Donbass, I do not know. For Minsk-2? For the daily shelling of ukraine cities in the formal world? That's why I poured blood into World War II, I understand why I poured blood in Afghanistan and Chechnya, although in the latter case I would put someone whom I would put against the wall.

    As for Ukria, half a million is not needed there. A grouping of 50-70 people will be enough. Half a million would be needed if the Ukrainians were going to fight as in the Second World War, for every piece of land. But it won’t be there. There, all the defense (although where it comes from, most of the fighting forces in the Donbass) will fall apart in a week at most, as soon as supply lines and headquarters are laid up, as soon as the government in Kiev makes its legs out of the country (there are no real patriots there, there are clowns there). Especially if you do not stand on ceremony with methods. But the work of the FSB and special forces will really be very much, because mud..ov in Ukriy proliferated a lot.
  19. Cobra77
    Cobra77 8 January 2016 02: 56 New
    +6
    There is no plan B. And there was no plan A either. There was only a reflex situational response. Where Ukraine was going was obvious long before 2013. But nothing intelligible was done. We just played muddy games with local oligarchs. Meanwhile, the Americans invested money in the formation of nationalist groups, in bribery of the right people, in propaganda in the media. The SBU generally became a branch of the CIA. The last chance for a relatively bloodless decision was the beginning of 2014. When Yanukovych could introduce a state of emergency or martial law, use force to suppress unrest, if the Russian Federation supported him and protected him from the EU and amers (because Yanukovych himself is cowardly, this is not Bashar Assad), but did not "express concern". In mid-2014, it was possible to solve with little bloodshed to support the Russian militia officially and by introducing troops to "support the lawfully elected president." The Ukrainian Armed Forces did not yet know what to do, whom to support; many commanders looked at where the wind would blow. And most of the army would support or remain at least neutral. But they threatened us with a finger from the ocean and the GDP was blown away. They started talking about the fact that we do not interfere, that there is no Russian army in Ukraine, that these are just exercises at the border, etc.

    Well, now we have a growing Nazi wolf cub on the borders, which is more and more incited to bite and hate Russia and everything Russian. For which there will still be a default, gas, coal or not. For all this is easily attributed to the aggressor. We have the Armed Forces, which, although not equal to the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, are no longer the same amorphous structure that a couple of years ago. They have already learned how to fight. They sniffed the blood too. We learned to hate "quilted jackets". Media in Ukraine I work just by stakhanov, Gebels would appreciate. The collapse of Ukraine should not be expected in the foreseeable future. The Americans will definitely not allow this. And ours with such an impotent policy will not be able to organize.
  20. hannibal lecter
    hannibal lecter 8 January 2016 03: 28 New
    +3
    The more I read about Ukrainians, the more I don’t understand why Hitler didn’t like the Jews ..
  21. yuriy55
    yuriy55 8 January 2016 06: 24 New
    +1
    All these "Minskies" have no legal force, because Ukraine was not going to fulfill them from the very beginning. Maybe I'll say something wrong, but ... how can I.
    Firstly, I will say that Georgia and the remnants of Ukraine differ only in an order of magnitude in population. I will not talk now about how the rule of law is established under the declared martial law and what the people whose concern is to live and work, raising children will, at the same time, be strictly observed ... I will try to decide on the LPR and the DPR ...
    What really exists now: ...
    The current international legal status of the Donetsk People’s Republic and the Luhansk People’s Republic is as follows. The republics are unrecognized states, because at the moment they have not received recognition from at least one UN member state. At the same time, the republics recognized each other's independence and from May 24, 2014 to May 18, 2015 they were co-founders and members of the Confederate Interstate Union of People's Republics / New Russia. The only state that recognized the independence of both republics is South Ossetia, which itself is not a member of the UN and has limited recognition.

    There are two options for continuing the events:
    Option one:
    Shaking with concern about the use of sanctions, Russia continues to endlessly supply the LPR and DPR with humanitarian supplies and is guided by the agreements "Minsk-2,3,4, ..." Note: such restraint suggests that those who have joined the Russian government still have something to lose from the exported and acquired with "stolen" money outside the Fatherland (although !? what is the fatherland for such?) ...
    Another option:
    In order to avoid further methodical extermination of Russians in the LPR and DPR, Russia is organizing a referendum among the citizens of these republics (you can invite someone from the UN). According to the results of the voting (if the majority is obtained), it acts according to the principle: "Divide and rule", - recognizes these republics as a permanent member of the UN and, having decided on the statuses, acts in relation to Ukraine within the framework of international rules, but already as a country conducting military operations against Russian subjects ...

    If not, see Option One

    And how many units will be needed to restore order will be determined by military strategists. You can trust them. In Syria, the cleaning results speak for themselves ...
    You can make sure that not everything is so smooth in the camp of "propagandists .... s" when they start talking about the "wrong honey":
    http://truba.com/video_461565/piarshchika_dzhihada_razneslo_snaryadom_v_klochya_
    v_pryamom_efire


    And it’s time, oh how time it’s time to get used to stop acting in foreign policy according to double standards, with various omissions and meaningful silence, because politics:
  22. DPN
    DPN 8 January 2016 14: 35 New
    +4
    No illusions Ukraine lost Russia as well as the Baltic states. And also a revolutionary upsurge was missed, as Odessa showed. Therefore, it is necessary to recognize the DPR and LPR, another question is whether they should be a buffer zone or as part of Russia at the oblast level, but this is from their CONSENT!
    But sending the gum - the convoys aren’t worth it. It’s all useful by ourselves, the SHACK IN RUSSIA IS STILL ENOUGH!
  23. Pvi1206
    Pvi1206 8 January 2016 22: 14 New
    0
    With each attempt at a forceful decision, Ukraine will lose new territories. For this, additional sanctions will be imposed on Russia. The United States is interested in this. So the conflict will continue as long as Russia will tolerate it.
    1. padded jacket
      padded jacket 9 January 2016 17: 56 New
      +1
      Just the opinion of a person from the front line in the Donbass: