Military Review

Stopping the Heart of Western Capitalism

273



I will try today to explain in simple words, why things are very sad in the dollar economy, and why there is practically no hope for a mild crisis. For those who do not even like to delve into the economic problems, here is the conclusion of the article: the heart of the financial system of Western countries has stopped, and resuscitation specialists will have to try very hard to run it again.

The word "heart" I did not accidentally use. If I were a liberal Darwinist, I would say that crises are necessary for capitalism, as regular cuts in the heart are necessary for all living organisms with a developed circulatory system.

Imagine three shops that sell apples. For example, shopkeepers buy every bag of apples from farmers for a dollar, and sell for a dollar and twenty cents - with these 20 cents of income, the shops live.

Suppose there comes a difficult time for apple traders - there are too many shops, and there are not enough buyers for everyone. Shopkeepers begin to fight with each other for a place in the sun. It is impossible to burn a competitor’s shop, or to enter into a price agreement with him in the ideal capitalist world — the state is watching this. Thus, the apple traders have the only means of intraspecific struggle - to sell apples even cheaper.

The benches enter the deflationary spiral, the race for survival begins. The price of apples goes down to a dollar, then to 95 cents, then to 90 cents ... The benches trade in a minus, but they have no other way out. If they stop the trade that is unprofitable for them and close the shop, they will not be able to give back their loans and go bankrupt. If the shops continue to work, they have a chance that someone else will be the first to go broke.

When prices reach 80 cents per bag, one of the shops turns out to be a weak link and goes bankrupt. At this point, the price of apples sags even more, since the shop needs to quickly vacate the premises, and she is ready to sell apples even at 70 cents, just to buy them as soon as possible. But, finally, the liquidation is completed, and only two shops remain on the market.

From this moment there is a shortage of apples: there are only two shops left, they can no longer serve all the inhabitants of the town. Prices for apples are beginning to grow rapidly, and soon - skipping the mark of twenty dollars - reach the mark of sixty dollars, as the shortage of apples in the market allows merchants to lift prices.

Such a profitable business - buying a bag of apples for a dollar, and selling for a dollar sixty - prompts one of the citizens to take a loan and open a new apple trade shop. Again, there is some surplus of apples on the market, and prices drop to twenty dollars, from which the cycle began.

As you see, something like a heart reduction has occurred - at the lower price level an inefficient owner left the market, and at the upper price level a new capitalist full of hopes came to the market. Such contractions of the heart keep everyone in good shape: the price constantly jumps from too high to too low, forcing businessmen to work at their limits.

We are now witnessing a reduction in the capitalist heart in the oil market. Oil prices have sunk so low that US shale companies operate at a loss — timidly hoping that prices will rise soon and they will be able to pay off the loans that are currently being raised due to high prices.

It would seem that everything is in order, we are witnessing a normal process for capitalism, and soon everything will turn in the other direction ... However, this time there is a nuance. And this nuance is a needle of super-cheap money, on which the economies of Western countries tightly hooked a few years ago.

Let's return to our example with benches and apples. Imagine that shopkeepers have access to very cheap loans. How will this change the market situation?

Well, of course, one of the shopkeepers will immediately take a cheap loan and immediately lower the price of apples to a dollar a bag. Of course, he will work at a loss, but this loss can be covered by a loan, and all buyers will immediately rush to him.

The other two shopkeepers will have a simple choice: either follow the lead of the first shopkeeper and also reduce the price to 95 cents per bag or leave the market.

For some time, everything is great. No one goes bankrupt, as all losses are compensated by cheap credit money, and prices are kept at low, comfortable for buyers of apples marks. However, the natural selection mechanism necessary for capitalism ceases to work - cheap loans provide protection from the invisible hand of the market to even the most inefficient owners.

As a result, inefficient firms live so long that the average price of apples never rises to the necessary for confident work of “plus” dollars and twenty cents: at any given time in the market there is a slowly bursting dumper who sells apples much cheaper.

How can the state do in this situation?

In several ways. The first way is to make loans expensive again. Then three of the four shops that now sell apples at a loss will go bankrupt - since they all have been working “for a minus” for a long time and are wildly overloaded with loans. However, after some time, the apples will rise in price several times, new businessmen will appear and the capitalist heart will again begin to shrink-unclench at the usual rhythm.

The second way - to make loans even cheaper, which will allow shopkeepers to hold on a bit more. The cost of loans, of course, is almost zero, but you can in fact introduce the CCP (negative interest rate policy) and push the rate on loans below zero. As you understand, this will only exacerbate the problem - since it will load the business with loans even more, and after the imminent onset of the crisis, it is not 25% of shops that will survive, but, say, 15%. But to win this way for several months is quite possible.

Finally, there is a third way - restarting the system through credit-burning hyperinflation. We must understand that hyperinflation will eventually come under any scenario, because the economy of Western countries is overflowed with cheap money, and after the onset of a serious crisis, money will inevitably lose most of its purchasing power. However, if you start hyperinflation earlier, the economy will get over it easier and faster.

No decision has yet been made. In December, the US Federal Reserve increased the interest rate on 0,25 percentage points, thereby marking its intention to take the number one path. The consequences of this decision have not yet fully manifested themselves, since the American sharks of the financial business did not sit in front of the stock monitors for the last week, but celebrated Christmas washing down black caviar with the blood of Christian babies.

However, the US financial system has already begun to crack anxiously - hedge funds specializing in problem loans are dying now, like flies under the streams of dichlorvos:

http://www.vestifinance.ru/art.

Very soon, the US Federal Reserve will be forced to take a pivotal decision - either to cross your arms and look at the plague of deflation that is devastating the markets, or quickly lower the rate back to zero in order to prolong the agony of the financial system a little more. Personally, I assume that the US Federal Reserve will not only lower the rate to zero, but also push it even lower into the negative zone. At the end of 2016, the presidential election will be held in the USA, and the Fed has reasons to try to delay the crisis in the area of ​​responsibility of the next elected representative.

Well, I still remind you that doctors have already learned how to replace a shrinking human heart with a constantly working turbine. Such a turbine is easier, safer and more technological than our imperfect cardiac muscle:

http://www.dailytechinfo.org/m.

Who knows, maybe after the end of the global crisis, which we are now rapidly plunging into, economists will be able to come up with a similar “turbine” for the planetary financial system? I believe that our technologies are already sufficiently advanced to replace the “invisible hand of the market” with a more modern and efficient mechanism.
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273 comments
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  1. poquello
    poquello 3 January 2016 21: 34 New
    +3
    Well, yes, I read that the United States has remained a couple of years, and the world is racking its brains how to get out
    1. Ami du peuple
      Ami du peuple 3 January 2016 21: 38 New
      132
      Quote: poquello
      Well, yes, I read that the United States has remained a couple of years,

      Such forecasts have recently appeared with enviable frequency. But the US is feeling fine and is not going to stagnate. They only bend their Pacific and Euro-Atlantic vassals through all kinds of cooperation programs of the same name. Well, in extreme cases, they will arrange another World War. If the Americans both times emerged from global confusion as the main beneficiaries, then why not try a third?
      But for Russia there is only one way out - to revive the planned economy and socialist forms of management (or, as some now call it, state Stalinist capitalism smile ). Пусть либеральный патриот ritzmorgen (автор статьи) мечется в поисках некой "турбины" для "рыночной" экономики, но всё уже было придумано до нас и неплохо себя проявило. По-крайней мере, лучше, чем классический капитализм.
      1. Eugene-Eugene
        Eugene-Eugene 3 January 2016 21: 46 New
        -15
        Such predictions

        Again nonsense. Oil as well as apples goes through the trading system in the form of short-term options. Options are controlled non-stop stock. Stop order goes through the clearing system. TNK-brokers work with invoices. Manufacturers give quasi-invoices. Consumer plants are controlled by traders ... And where is capitalism here?
        1. redeemer
          redeemer 3 January 2016 23: 42 New
          37
          he understood what he said? ..
          and on the topic, all this is bullshit. nothing is eternal. nothing is new. here is the truth. everything else verbiage is a squared lie. talk about what you know. thoughts about what you see. everything else is vanity, that is, meaninglessness.
          1. Shiva83483
            Shiva83483 3 January 2016 23: 48 New
            12
            Everything in this world is vanity-vanity, and ... languor of the spirit ... hi
            1. Alena Frolovna
              Alena Frolovna 4 January 2016 14: 49 New
              +6
              poquello
              Well, yes, I read that the United States has remained a couple of years, and the world is racking its brains how to get out


              Ami du peuple
              Such forecasts have recently appeared with enviable frequency. But the US is feeling fine and is not going to stagnate.


              "Пути и судьбы Провидения в истории человечества нам не открыты. We do not see them. How Western and Eastern peoples will be led in their future history - we do not know. Which of them are doomed to collapse and insignificance, and which ones to greatness and salvation is unknown. And from where salvation comes to which of them is hidden from us.
              What is this naive claim to prophesy to them and about them - about their ways and salvation? Откуда это дерзновение судьи? Откуда это уверенное подсказывание Богу? Откуда это ясновидение? " И.А. ИЛЬИН
              1. Tatyana
                Tatyana 4 January 2016 23: 52 New
                +9
                saturn.mmm Comment 4.01.2016 19: 8
                I ask why in a wonderful country incompetent people could fall into power, who could easily destroy Stalin’s brilliant achievements? It turns out that the system was built in such a way that any eccentric who reached the top of power could turn the country upside down at the time, tomorrow Stalin will come and there will be an industrial boom, the day after tomorrow Gorbachev will come and ruin everything.

                Firstly, no one has canceled the role of personality in history. This truth has been known since the priestly times of ancient Egypt and is “played out” both in the internal and external “PERSONNEL” policies of any state, especially in senior management positions, because this affects the fate of the country and state.
                For example, the USA and other countries of “Western democracy” are guided by this rule always and everywhere in their own national interests. Moreover, for the United States, if the head of another country hands over his country to them in their external management, then he is “good” for them - he is a “democrat”. And if not, then he is a "dictator." In other words, the assessment of personality by different people is always subjective.
                Secondly. It should be noted that in assessing the Soviet system, many polemicists on this issue do not take into account that the CPSU (b) after Lenin's death, in fact, consisted of 2 parties - the “party” of Trotsky and the “party” of Stalin. And these parties had completely different - directly opposite - tasks. Trotsky's party was supposed to surrender Soviet Russia under the external control of the Anglo-Saxons and French, and the Stalin party fought for the sovereignty of the country. Hence the internal party feuds and the internal political struggle in the country. Who was Khrushchev at the same time? and who at the same time exerted a personal influence on him in the field of n / a? This is a question. But the inferiority complex of his own leaderism was clearly present in it. Liberalism in the USSR historically began precisely with him - with Khrushchev.
                Thirdly. The bourgeois liberals of the perestroika period of the USSR / Russia reduced all the re-runs of the Soviet period only (in the image and likeness of Khrushchev's speech at the Twentieth Congress of the CPSU) to the so-called "Stalinist repression" and "sausage for the people."
                Well, Gorbachev can be considered a traitor to the Motherland - an Anglo-Saxon defector and an agent of foreign intelligence, which brought him to power. In particular, Gorbachev’s rise to power is connected precisely with the death of Peter Masherov in the 1980 car accident of the year. For example,
                Vyacheslav Kebich, the first prime minister of independent Belarus [9], does not consider the accident a accident.
                N. P. Masherova: “Father did not live to see the Plenum of the Central Committee of the CPSU for less than two weeks. Everything has been decided. He went to the place of Kosygin. I understand that my father interfered with many. It was then, in October 1980, that Gorbachev’s “star has risen”[10]. "
                Arkady Rusetskiy, Dr. East. sciences .: "There is no answer to the main question - about the tragic death of the leader. Not everything is clear, but the versions of this accident are different. Why does the escort car come off at that intersection at 150 meters? [11] »
                https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0%B0%D1%88%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2,_%D0%9F

                %D1%91%D1%82%D1%80_%D0%9C%D0%B8%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%BD%D0%BE%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%87#.D0.93

                .D0.B8.D0.B1.D0.B5.D0.BB.D1.8C

                Thus, there simply are no “eccentrics” in power!
                1. tank64rus
                  tank64rus 5 January 2016 11: 45 New
                  +3
                  I heard about this matter back in the days of the USSR. One thing is clear that the matter is very dark. It is unlikely that everything was done under Hunchback, but I did not want to let the former partisan brigade into power, which I didn’t want to have.
        2. shuhartred
          shuhartred 4 January 2016 03: 32 New
          11
          Quote: Eugene-Eugene
          Nonsense again. Oil, like apples, goes through the system

          This is understandable. And here it is
          Quote: Eugene-Eugene
          trading in the form of short-term options. Options are controlled by exchange non-stops. The stop order goes through the clearing system. TNC brokers work with invoices. Quasi-invoices are given by manufacturers. Consumer plants are controlled by traders.

          In Chinese
          1. bovig
            bovig 4 January 2016 19: 06 New
            +4
            Quote: shuhartred
            Quote: Eugene-Eugene
            Nonsense again. Oil, like apples, goes through the system

            This is understandable. And here it is
            Quote: Eugene-Eugene
            trading in the form of short-term options. Options are controlled by exchange non-stops. The stop order goes through the clearing system. TNC brokers work with invoices. Quasi-invoices are given by manufacturers. Consumer plants are controlled by traders.

            In Chinese


            Here is what is in Chinese, you need to understand this: the more zaumis incomprehensible to the majority, the wider the field of activity for fraud! The point of this whole zaum is not to let you know where, how, and at what moment you will be ousted, and you will not even suspect this! You will secretly disassemble this abracadabra, as if trying to peel off the feathers from the hands smeared with honey ...))))
        3. valokordin
          valokordin 4 January 2016 08: 35 New
          0
          Quote: Eugene-Eugene
          Such predictions

          Again nonsense. Oil as well as apples goes through the trading system in the form of short-term options. Options are controlled non-stop stock. Stop order goes through the clearing system. TNK-brokers work with invoices. Manufacturers give quasi-invoices. Consumer plants are controlled by traders ... And where is capitalism here?

          But Eugene is right, probably the enemy put him a minus.
        4. Sinbad
          Sinbad 4 January 2016 16: 13 New
          +4
          With such incomprehensible, beautiful words, theft and fraud are masked.
        5. My doctor
          My doctor 4 January 2016 17: 38 New
          0
          Bloomberg experts are confident that the second term of the presidency of Barack Obama will be the most successful time for the dollar since Bill Clinton. Longer than under Clinton, the dollar strengthened under Ronald Reagan.

          In 2016, the US dollar will rise against all major competitors, with the exception of the Canadian dollar, British pound sterling and Norwegian krone, according to a study conducted by experts at Bloomberg.

          At the same time, according to experts, the New Zealand and Australian dollars, as well as the Swiss franc, will fall more strongly than others (by 5,5-8%). The cost of Danish and Swedish kroner will decrease by about 5%, the Japanese yen by about 3,5%, the euro by almost 3%.

          Experts attribute the expected strengthening of the dollar with the decision of the US Federal Reserve on raising the key rate adopted in mid-December 2015. This decision was made by the Fed leadership for the first time in nine years, and, according to forecasts, if economic growth continues in 2016, the rate can be increased four more times.

          “No other country can answer in the same way. Therefore, the dollar is likely to rise against most currencies, ”says Mark Chandler, the chief currency strategist at New York's Brown Brothers Harriman & Co.

          Experts note that after the abolition of the gold standard in 1971, the dollar experienced two major rallies, during which the value of the currency grew for several years in a row. The first of them lasted from 1979 to 1984, intensifying after Ronald Reagan, the tax-cut tax president, became the president of the United States, and the second was in the last five years of economic growth during the reign of Bill Clinton.

          ​"Это третье большое ралли доллара. При Обаме, я думаю, его подпитывают изменения монетарной политики", — отмечает Чандлер.
          1. bovig
            bovig 4 January 2016 19: 22 New
            -1
            Quote: MyVrach
            Bloomberg experts are confident that the second term of the presidency of Barack Obama will be the most successful time for the dollar since Bill Clinton. Longer than under Clinton, the dollar strengthened under Ronald Reagan.

            In 2016, the US dollar will rise against all major competitors, with the exception of the Canadian dollar, British pound sterling and Norwegian krone, according to a study conducted by experts at Bloomberg.

            At the same time, according to experts, the New Zealand and Australian dollars, as well as the Swiss franc, will fall more strongly than others (by 5,5-8%). The cost of Danish and Swedish kroner will decrease by about 5%, the Japanese yen by about 3,5%, the euro by almost 3%.

            Experts attribute the expected strengthening of the dollar with the decision of the US Federal Reserve on raising the key rate adopted in mid-December 2015. This decision was made by the Fed leadership for the first time in nine years, and, according to forecasts, if economic growth continues in 2016, the rate can be increased four more times.

            “No other country can answer in the same way. Therefore, the dollar is likely to rise against most currencies, ”says Mark Chandler, the chief currency strategist at New York's Brown Brothers Harriman & Co.

            Experts note that after the abolition of the gold standard in 1971, the dollar experienced two major rallies, during which the value of the currency grew for several years in a row. The first of them lasted from 1979 to 1984, intensifying after Ronald Reagan, the tax-cut tax president, became the president of the United States, and the second was in the last five years of economic growth during the reign of Bill Clinton.

            ​"Это третье большое ралли доллара. При Обаме, я думаю, его подпитывают изменения монетарной политики", — отмечает Чандлер.


            It remains to wait until Obama is elected for the SECOND term after the break, like Putin!)))) Given that the second term of his presidency ends this year ...))
        6. Ebundey Mukhryuev
          Ebundey Mukhryuev 4 January 2016 17: 41 New
          +1
          ... Zhenya, are you raving in a dream?
        7. filalex79
          filalex79 4 January 2016 18: 33 New
          +1
          Правильно никакого "капитализма", одно сплошное ростовщичество!
        8. unsinkable
          unsinkable 4 January 2016 19: 38 New
          +3

          Pidraisers through stop-happing (not to be confused with a gop-stop) are systematized uncontrollably by brading-snipers for loholization of EBC consumers. This is where capitalism is. winkOnly pears instead of apples.
        9. NordUral
          NordUral 5 January 2016 11: 54 New
          0
          And what then do you see in this intrigue?
        10. SPQR1977
          SPQR1977 5 January 2016 21: 30 New
          +1
          I realized that I didn’t understand anything). And the article (about apples) clearly explained everything to the peasant))
      2. Homo
        Homo 3 January 2016 21: 50 New
        21
        Quote: Ami du peuple
        But the US is feeling fine ...

        Or maybe they are trying to convince everyone that they have everything in chocolate? But really kirdyk fits! If everything is fine with them, then where were the homeless, the poor, the hungry, the food stamps, the debt (internal and external), etc.? And why are they trying to bungle a new war?
        1. 34 region
          34 region 4 January 2016 02: 15 New
          95
          Why is the US not chocolate? The author gave a good example of doing business. But there is another way. An apple seller hires a punks to shave apples from gardeners and give him for, say, 20 cents. The gardener begins to be indignant at such things and drive the punks. The trader alleges gardener cruelty and human rights violations (punks). A trader with friends enters the gardener's possessions to restore order. The gardener is killed as a sadist. The merchant leaves leaving the garden run by punks. Shpana is booing. They work for her under kicks, and they sell apples (albeit at dumping prices). Other traders continue to buy apples for a dollar. And who has more income? Cheap loans? Money will still have to be given. And hiring punks is much more profitable. Having invested in a gang you put it on self-sufficiency. Even if the payback is zero, your purchases are much cheaper. Total. The ruin of competitors and enrichment of oneself. Bonus Busted gardeners will never live better than you. They will have to buy everything from you for your candy wrappers. And who says war is unprofitable? Very profitable business. Without war, as without hands!
      3. poquello
        poquello 3 January 2016 22: 14 New
        +6
        Quote: Ami du peuple
        .
        But for Russia there is only one way out - to revive the planned economy and socialist forms of management (or, as some now call it, state Stalinist capitalism ...

        I didn’t find Stalin, and under Brezhnev’s they could plant for unauthorized production and sale of flower pots
        1. Ami du peuple
          Ami du peuple 3 January 2016 22: 33 New
          14
          Quote: poquello
          I didn’t find Stalin, and under Brezhnev’s they could plant for unauthorized production and sale of flower pots

          The fact of the matter is that I had in mind precisely the Stalinist mixed economy. When the same artels and cooperative enterprises produced up to 70-80% of the range of some consumer goods.
          А насчёт цветочных горшков.. Мой родной дядька, в конце 70-х, на базе своего госпредприятия, изготовил несколько станков для производства обоев по заказу грузинских цеховиков. Каждый ценой в "Жигули". Причём из списанных материалов (неликвидов короче) Самый тяжелый вопрос был не разработать и изготовить, а вывезти готовое изделие - ОБХСС не дремало wink
          1. Nikolay K
            Nikolay K 3 January 2016 22: 58 New
            -5
            I hope the uncle was caught and imprisoned to the fullest extent of Soviet laws. You want it
            1. Ami du peuple
              Ami du peuple 3 January 2016 23: 16 New
              55
              Quote: Nikolai K
              I hope the uncle was caught and imprisoned to the fullest extent of Soviet laws. You want it

              Вы весьма недалёкий человек, если не поняли простой смысл моего комментария. При сталинской модели народного хозяйства подобные изделия производились и реализовались бы в системе промкооперации. С отчислением всех соответствующих налогов и без всякого нарушения соцзаконности. Хрущёв с подельниками разрушил многоукладную экономику, формализировал и усложнил процесс планирования и принятия решений в сфере производства товаров группы "Б". В итоге получили пресловутый дефицит товаров народного потребления и, как результат, разочарование населения в социалистической модели развития. "Деньги есть, а купить нечего". Чем всё это закончилось, думаю, напоминать не надо.
              1. MrK
                MrK 4 January 2016 00: 13 New
                11
                Quote: Ami du peuple
                Хрущёв с подельниками разрушил многоукладную экономику, формализировал и усложнил процесс планирования и принятия решений в сфере производства товаров группы "Б".


                Thanks for the comment by colleague Ami du peuple. I thought to write it myself. For the first time, he lamented this at Kurlandchik on Proza.ru. And then through the links of Courlandchik found other sources.
                And you will not convince Nikolai K's colleague.
                Best regards
                1. Tatyana
                  Tatyana 4 January 2016 02: 40 New
                  16
                  Ami du peuple (1)
                  Хрущёв с подельниками разрушил многоукладную экономику, формализировал и усложнил процесс планирования и принятия решений в сфере производства товаров группы "Б". В итоге получили пресловутый дефицит товаров народного потребления и, как результат, disappointment of the population in the socialist model of development.

                  And Khrushchev ideologically showed political profanity when, in the joys of flying in 1961, the first person in the world, Yu.A. Gagarin, a citizen of the USSR, declared into space that: “The Soviet people in 1980 will live under communism!”
                  The people also do not forgive such ideological PR “blunders” of the country's leaders in trusting the authorities.
                  1. Just BB
                    Just BB 4 January 2016 06: 10 New
                    +8
                    The people do not forgive such ideological PR “blunders” of the country's leaders in trusting the authorities

                    Тем более когда "глобальная цель общества" начертана так близко, а шажки становятся всё короче. Возникает вопрос? Или идея плохая (тут подДАкивателей полмира) или правят нами не те (тут находятся "свои" оч.умелые правители).
              2. Nikolay K
                Nikolay K 4 January 2016 00: 14 New
                -18
                You, apparently, poorly studied Marxism-Leninism, if you think so primitively. And the classics clearly indicated that any owner, including a peasant, artisan and shopkeeper, is an enemy of Soviet power. And Stalin brutally eradicated this enemy. Just then, food safety was a priority, because they started with de-peeling (collectivization) of peasants, the shopkeepers and artisans did not immediately get their hands on, although more or less large artels also took control. But Khryashchev and Brezhnev only finally realized the covenants of their leaders, driving artisanal underground. Well, except that they allowed grandmothers to trade socks and peasants with chicken and pork, grown in their yard on feed stolen from collective farm fields. Just do not transplant all the grandmothers.
                1. Ami du peuple
                  Ami du peuple 4 January 2016 01: 43 New
                  39
                  Quote: Nikolai K
                  You, apparently, poorly studied Marxism-Leninism, if you think so primitively.

                  Уважаемый Коля, я не только изучал "марксизм-ленинизм", как Вы изволили выразиться (на самом деле такого предмета не было. Были "История КПСС", "Политическая экономия" да "Диалектический материализм", то есть основы марксистско-ленинской философии), но и сдавал государственный экзамен по дисциплине "Научный коммунизм". Смею Вас заверить, что у Вас несколько искаженные представления о социалистической модели народного хозяйства.
                  Не буду вдаваться в подробности - разговор это долгий (и, в Вашем случае, напрасный), но с одним Вашим постулатом всё же соглашусь. Брежнев и, особенно, Хрущев действительно извратили сталинские идеи построения экономики. Но никак не "окончательно реализовали заветы своих вождей".
                  1. anew
                    anew 4 January 2016 02: 13 New
                    -40
                    Quote: Ami du peuple
                    Brezhnev and, especially, Khrushchev really perverted the Stalinist ideas of building an economy.

                    Сынок, тебе бы пожить во время этой "сталинской экономики". Так ты потом Хрущева не "кукурузником" бы обзывал. А молился бы на него. В кои-то веки люди хоть немного стали похожи на людей. Он хотя бы касту неприкасаемых (т.н. лишенцев) ликвидировал. Слыхал о таких, лишенцах? Их было много. Очень много.
                    А хочешь "сталинской экономики", вали в КНДР. И не морочь здесь людям голову. Поголодаешь там вдоволь. Ума наберешься. Правда, обратно уже скорее всего не выпустят. Придется там "наслаждаться".
                    1. Ami du peuple
                      Ami du peuple 4 January 2016 02: 58 New
                      26
                      Quote: anew
                      Сынок, тебе бы пожить во время этой "сталинской экономики"

                      Quote: anew
                      At least he caste of the untouchables (the so-called deprived)

                      Quote: anew
                      А хочешь "сталинской экономики", вали в КНДР. И не морочь здесь людям голову.

                      Во-первых, я Вам не "сынок", у меня свой отец есть. И не надо мне "тыкать" я с Вами гусей не пас.
                      Во-вторых, что это за "каста неприкасаемых"? Вы СССР с Индией не путаете, случаем?
                      В-третьих, не вижу необходимости прислушиваться к советам какого-то невнятного голландского персонажа по вопросу, куда мне "валить". Кстати, КНДР - не самая худшая страна для проживания. Но, подобных Вам, в этом убедить невозможно.
                      1. Antanas
                        Antanas 4 January 2016 03: 47 New
                        -30
                        Yes, it is possible to compare the life of an ordinary person in the DPRK with that of the accursed Geyrop and the USA :))) Today there are many reports of bloggers, including Russian ones who were there, and some managed at their own risk to photograph something It is strictly forbidden to film to foreigners. I recommend that you familiarize yourself with a lot of interesting things.
                      2. Ami du peuple
                        Ami du peuple 4 January 2016 07: 58 New
                        22
                        Quote: Antanas
                        Yes, yes, how can the life of an ordinary person in the DPRK be compared with that of the accursed Geyrop and the USA

                        Oh, that respected Israeli experts pulled themselves up. Who, if not them, will tell us the whole burning truth about the horrors of the existence of a simple person in authoritarian North Korea?
                        Я никоим образом не называл США и Европу "проклятыми" и, тем более, не уродовал их названия. Просто еще раз повторю - тоталитарный КНДР не самое худшее место для проживания. А уж по сравнению с такими демократическими странами, как близкий Таджикистан или далёкое Сомали... Но почему-то именно Северную Корею постоянно пугалом выставляют.
                      3. saturn.mmm
                        saturn.mmm 4 January 2016 10: 41 New
                        -7
                        Quote: Ami du peuple
                        Oh, that respected Israeli experts pulled themselves up.

                        Why do you immediately focus on nationality? We have an economic theme.
                        Maybe they live worse in Somalia than in the DPRK, but in South Korea it is better, but the people are the same, or will you dispute this?
                        Why didn’t the magnificent country built by Stalin last 40 years?
                        On the topic, the bourgeois economy was in a competitive environment and did not allow itself liberties, there was a competition for a third-world market with undeveloped technological production, but now a significant part of the third-world countries themselves have become technologically advanced and compete with the bourgeois West, apples are produced at cost price from they are cheaper here and the West has to introduce zero or even negative rates with all positive and negative consequences.
                      4. Alf
                        Alf 4 January 2016 17: 14 New
                        +6
                        Quote: saturn.mmm
                        Why didn’t the magnificent country built by Stalin last 40 years?

                        Because after Stalin, the development of the country went in a completely different direction.
                      5. PHANTOM-AS
                        PHANTOM-AS 4 January 2016 17: 25 New
                        +6
                        Quote: Alf
                        the country's development went in a completely different direction.

                        But whatever it was, we were ahead of the rest!
                      6. Alf
                        Alf 4 January 2016 17: 46 New
                        +4
                        Quote: PHANTOM-AS
                        Quote: Alf
                        the country's development went in a completely different direction.
                        But whatever it was, we were ahead of the rest!

                        Wrong. The fact is that after the death of the IVS, the economy was still developing by inertia, but after the coming of power, the khrushchev stopped. Take a look at the reasons for the 61st year reform. But the reason is one - after the rejection of the Stalinist plan for the country's development in the country, inflation appeared.
                      7. saturn.mmm
                        saturn.mmm 4 January 2016 19: 08 New
                        +1
                        Quote: Alf
                        But the reason is one - after the rejection of the Stalinist plan for the country's development in the country, inflation appeared.

                        I ask why, in a wonderful country, incompetent people who could easily destroy Stalin’s brilliant achievements could fall into power?
                        It turns out that the system was built so that any eccentric who reached the top of power could turn the country upside down at the time, tomorrow Stalin will come and there will be an industrial boom, the day after tomorrow Gorbachev will come and ruin everything.
                        Hundreds of millions of people depend only on what kind of person will hit their heads.
                      8. Alf
                        Alf 4 January 2016 20: 53 New
                        +5
                        Quote: saturn.mmm
                        I ask why, in a wonderful country, incompetent people who could easily destroy Stalin’s brilliant achievements could fall into power?

                        That is precisely why the temporary detention center was preparing for the 55th year a reform of the country, according to which only the ideological component remained with the party, but in which the party moved away from governing the country.
                      9. PHANTOM-AS
                        PHANTOM-AS 5 January 2016 07: 05 New
                        +5
                        Quote: saturn.mmm
                        who could easily destroy the brilliant achievements of Stalin?

                        Stalin’s achievements have not yet been destroyed, because the remnants of Soviet industry are still alive (and we didn’t have another), although they continue to finish it off with all their might.
                        Now imagine what a powerful foundation was laid in the Stalin era.
                      10. anew
                        anew 5 January 2016 10: 22 New
                        -6
                        Quote: PHANTOM-AS
                        the remnants of Soviet industry are still alive (and we didn’t and haven’t another), although they continue to finish it off with all their might.
                        Now imagine what a powerful foundation was laid in the Stalin era.

                        Lord, what industry? It could exist ONLY inside a closed USSR. Because It was completely uncompetitive. Neither in terms of energy intensity, nor in labor intensity. Yes, and the quality of products issued, too. As soon as the borders were opened, she immediately collapsed. All. Because in an open state could not exist in principle. And what is preserved today has nothing to do with Soviet industry, because modernized and completely updated.
                        Сегодня Китай мучается подобной проблемой с "социалистической" промышленностью. Он, в отличие от СССР, всю дорогу поддерживал ее дотациями. Вот его и колбасит периодически, от этих непроизводительных расходов. Дешевле было эти заводы взорвать. Но были бы серьезные проблемы с безработицей.
                      11. Volzhanin
                        Volzhanin 5 January 2016 17: 00 New
                        -1
                        Почитайте книгу А. Паршева "Почему Россия не Америка" и тогда каши в голове станет меньше!
                        The cost of any product in Russia will always be higher than in other countries. It’s just much colder here and even with the same technology, energy costs will be higher.
                        Therefore, Russia has only two options, or both are better: 1. healthy protectionism; 2. Unknown to anyone hitherto super-duper know-how.
                        You can not compare the incomparable!
                      12. anew
                        anew 5 January 2016 17: 12 New
                        +2
                        Quote: Volzhanin
                        The cost of any product in Russia will always be higher than in other countries.

                        Poor Canadians. They do not know that they cannot have anything good. Parshev does not order.
                      13. Nikolay K
                        Nikolay K 5 January 2016 18: 37 New
                        +2
                        You're wrong. We have cheap natural resources. Therefore, any material-intensive industry can be competitive. But not with the current cost of capital.
                  2. The comment was deleted.
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        2. bovig
          bovig 4 January 2016 21: 26 New
          +2
          Quote: saturn.mmm
          Quote: Ami du peuple
          Oh, that respected Israeli experts pulled themselves up.

          Why do you immediately focus on nationality? We have an economic theme.
          Maybe they live worse in Somalia than in the DPRK, but in South Korea it is better, but the people are the same, or will you dispute this?
          Why didn’t the magnificent country built by Stalin last 40 years?
          On the topic, the bourgeois economy was in a competitive environment and did not allow itself liberties, there was a competition for a third-world market with undeveloped technological production, but now a significant part of the third-world countries themselves have become technologically advanced and compete with the bourgeois West, apples are produced at cost price from they are cheaper here and the West has to introduce zero or even negative rates with all positive and negative consequences.


          "Израильские эксперты" это упор на национальность?))) Не знаю такой национальности! Упор тут был сделан на то, что "израильский эксперт" мухлюет сравнивая попу с пальцем! Сравнение Южной Кореи и КНДР тоже не корректно... Южная Корея накачивалась инвестициями в рамках "плана Маршалла", а КНДР живёт под санкциями и без поддержки СССР... Это так, к вашему сведению... А почему так мало протянула страна построенная Сталиным, вы можете прочесть в книге Стюарта Кагана "Кремлевский Волк". Только читайте внимательно!))
        3. saturn.mmm
          saturn.mmm 5 January 2016 17: 02 New
          -1
          Quote: bovig
          "Израильские эксперты" это упор на национальность?

          If it’s not clear to you that this is again about the Jews, then what can you do?
          Quote: bovig
          Упор тут был сделан на то, что "израильский эксперт" мухлюет сравнивая попу с пальцем!

          And blame the Poles for arrogance.
          Quote: bovig
          Южная Корея накачивалась инвестициями в рамках "плана Маршалла",

          Южная Корея не участвовала в "плане Маршала", "план Маршала" это программа по восстановлению Западной Европы в состав входило 16 европейских государств.
          Back in the early 60s, South Korea was one of the poorest countries in the region.
          But the USSR provided assistance to North Korea, at the time of the collapse of the USSR, the debt amounted to 11 billion.
          This is for your information, China does not support sanctions against S. Korea.
          Quote: bovig
          А почему так мало протянула страна построенная Сталиным, вы можете прочесть в книге Стюарта Кагана "Кремлевский Волк".

          Wherever spit everywhere conspiracy, whoever spoke to these Americans with their rotten, anti-human capitalism.
        4. bovig
          bovig 5 January 2016 23: 56 New
          0
          Quote: saturn.mmm
          Quote: bovig
          "Израильские эксперты" это упор на национальность?

          If it’s not clear to you that this is again about the Jews, then what can you do?
          Quote: bovig
          Упор тут был сделан на то, что "израильский эксперт" мухлюет сравнивая попу с пальцем!

          And blame the Poles for arrogance.
          Quote: bovig
          Южная Корея накачивалась инвестициями в рамках "плана Маршалла",

          Южная Корея не участвовала в "плане Маршала", "план Маршала" это программа по восстановлению Западной Европы в состав входило 16 европейских государств.
          Back in the early 60s, South Korea was one of the poorest countries in the region.
          But the USSR provided assistance to North Korea, at the time of the collapse of the USSR, the debt amounted to 11 billion.
          This is for your information, China does not support sanctions against S. Korea.
          Quote: bovig
          А почему так мало протянула страна построенная Сталиным, вы можете прочесть в книге Стюарта Кагана "Кремлевский Волк".

          Wherever spit everywhere conspiracy, whoever spoke to these Americans with their rotten, anti-human capitalism.


          And then the Poles, whom I allegedly accused of arrogance, and what kind of conspiracy are you talking about? Do you have a mania for conspiracy theories?)) How do you strangely try to conjecture for others, or to assign untold texts to others ...
          Впрочем, если вам не нравится "план Маршалла" , пусть это будет " доктрина Трумена"... Лишь бы вы поняли суть... Или все же вы намерены отрицать экспансию США? В том числе в Южную Корею...
  2. Antanas
    Antanas 7 January 2016 23: 49 New
    0
    This is precisely the worst place possible. Even Somalia and especially Tajikistan. I read a lot of material on the DPRK from completely reliable sources. The DPRK is not even totalitarianism, it is the real slave state, the worst of the possible. Want to know more about this?
  3. Antanas
    Antanas 7 January 2016 23: 49 New
    0
    This is precisely the worst place possible. Even Somalia and especially Tajikistan. I read a lot of material on the DPRK from completely reliable sources. The DPRK is not even totalitarianism, it is the real slave state, the worst of the possible. Want to know more about this?
  4. Volzhanin
    Volzhanin 5 January 2016 16: 49 New
    0
    It is absolutely possible to say that in the DPRK there is nothing that would not be in the geyrop, in the gamer, and in Israel. Everything is exactly the same, only the view from the side.
  5. anew
    anew 5 January 2016 17: 15 New
    +1
    Quote: Volzhanin
    It is absolutely possible to say that in the DPRK there is nothing that would not be in the geyrop, in the gamer, and in Israel. Everything is exactly the same, only the view from the side.

    To you, a man who has never patriotically left the village Pupkino knows better, of course.
  6. Antanas
    Antanas 8 January 2016 01: 06 New
    0
    Что,серьёзно? :))) Ну для начала - ,в перечисленных странах, тоже ты не имеешь права выехать в соседний город к родственникам тлил друзьям без разрешения соответствующих органов (и совсем не факт что получишь),там тоже радиоприемники опломбированны с фиксированной настройкой,2 программы ТВ только для "своих",внешний интернет под строгим запретом,как и внешняя связь?Там ты можешьпойти в магазин и купить то что хочешь?Там ты можешь сказать слово против любимой партии и лично поросёнка?Это только начало.
  7. The comment was deleted.
  • bugaev2005
    bugaev2005 4 January 2016 09: 05 New
    +3
    Hooray for you !!! Just Hurray !!! Those who put you cons are just foolish people !! Know that those who are now really plowing at their small factories and workshops are all with YOU, and the minuses are put to you by people who have not experienced the happiness of crafts ... And let me at least blame ...
  • Senior manager
    Senior manager 4 January 2016 09: 42 New
    10
    anew / You probably didn’t stand in long lines for wheat bread, in the Altai steppes, and did not see pig villages with huts for one sow. No need to praise the short-sighted politician Khrushchev. I do not touch upon other miscalculations of his reign.
  • bovig
    bovig 4 January 2016 21: 02 New
    0
    Quote: anew
    Quote: Ami du peuple
    Brezhnev and, especially, Khrushchev really perverted the Stalinist ideas of building an economy.

    Сынок, тебе бы пожить во время этой "сталинской экономики". Так ты потом Хрущева не "кукурузником" бы обзывал. А молился бы на него. В кои-то веки люди хоть немного стали похожи на людей. Он хотя бы касту неприкасаемых (т.н. лишенцев) ликвидировал. Слыхал о таких, лишенцах? Их было много. Очень много.
    А хочешь "сталинской экономики", вали в КНДР. И не морочь здесь людям голову. Поголодаешь там вдоволь. Ума наберешься. Правда, обратно уже скорее всего не выпустят. Придется там "наслаждаться".


    Кстати, вы первый кто упомянул Хрущева как "кукурузника", а другим предлагаете молиться на него... Впрочем, обсуждать всякую чушь не расположен, но интересно было бы "просветиться" относительно "неприкасаемых лишенцев", которых было "очень много"...))) Поведайте, пожалуйста!)
  • Pre-cat
    Pre-cat 6 January 2016 11: 47 New
    +3
    My grandfather and grandmother lived under the Stalinist economy. In the village. So - according to their stories under Stalin, collective farmers were allocated as much land for personal landings as you ask. And then the crop could then be quietly sold on the market in the city. The collective farm even allocated transport to transport products. Private and collective farm fruits and vegetables were brought to the market together. there was not much workday, but it came out pretty well from their garden. It was possible even not to trade ourselves but to hand in consumer co-operation - they themselves would come to the village, pay off and pick up the crop. Only lazy did not have to rely on a rich workday. And they recalled Khrushchev with a gnashing of teeth. Plots collective farmers cut. Cooperatives tricked. And although the peasants quietly cultivated additional areas, it was already illegal, it was possible to fly in. And there were production cooperatives. My grandfather quite officially (even before the war) concluded a contract and made barrels, beehives, etc. in winter. could custom-made furniture. And Khrushchev covered all this. In short - who worked did not starve. And those who sat on the stove all winter — of course, interrupted themselves from bread to water. This was under Stalin in later times, under Brezhnev.
  • Simple
    Simple 4 January 2016 02: 19 New
    +4
    Quote: Ami du peuple
    я не только изучал "марксизм-ленинизм", как Вы изволили выразиться(на самом деле такого предмета не было.

    ?
    Since 1925, the course “Fundamentals of Marxism-Leninism” was introduced in the USSR in all universities, an integral part of which was “History of the CPSU (B.)”
    course of institute Marxist-Leninist philosophy / Publishing house of Moscow State University, 1976; Graphic tools in teaching the course of Marxist-Leninist philosophy.
    1. Ami du peuple
      Ami du peuple 4 January 2016 03: 04 New
      +6
      Quote: Just
      Since 1925, the course “Fundamentals of Marxism-Leninism” was introduced in the USSR in all universities, an integral part of which was “History of the CPSU (B.)”
      course of institute Marxist-Leninist philosophy / Publishing house of Moscow State University, 1976; Graphic tools in teaching the course of Marxist-Leninist philosophy.

      Curricula are different, you know. Moreover, I did not study at Moscow State University. A simpler and, I would even say, well, completely glamorous educational institution finished smile
      1. Simple
        Simple 4 January 2016 13: 17 New
        +3
        Quote: Ami du peuple
        Well, a completely non-glamorous educational institution

        I graduated from a technical university with a purely military specialty.
        According to Marxist-Leninist philosophy, there was a solid Troyak. I remember exactly.
        And the methodology of Moscow State University ...
        The technical college at ZIL was created in accordance with the Decree of the Council of Ministers of the USSR No. 1425 of December 30 of 1959 of the year by order of the Ministry of Higher Education of the RSFSR of March 1 of 1960 of the year on the basis of the Moscow Automotive Institute (MAMI) branch.

        1964

        In accordance with the decision of the leading party and state bodies of the USSR, the system of socio-political disciplines studied at universities was adjusted. It included the history of the CPSU, Marxist-Leninist philosophy, political economy and scientific communism (teaching of the last discipline began in the 1964 / 1965 academic year).
        The party bureau of the technical college plant discusses the question "On the tasks of the departments of the technical college plant for the communist education of students."

        (just caught my arm)
    2. Just BB
      Just BB 4 January 2016 06: 24 New
      +5
      In 1925, only my grandfather could study, but in the 70s I never heard about:
      course "Fundamentals of Marxism-Leninism"

      and here
      Были "История КПСС" -- 1st year of study "Политическая экономия" - 3 course да "Диалектический материализм" -2 course, that is, the foundations of Marxist-Leninist philosophy),4th, 5th courses но и сдавал государственный экзамен по дисциплине "Научный коммунизм".
      1. Simple
        Simple 4 January 2016 13: 27 New
        +1
        Quote: Just BB
        but I didn’t hear about 70 about:

        но это же не значит ,что Вы "истина в последней инстанции"?
        Maybe you studied poorly?
        The practice of teaching philosophy in the USSR was formed by the well-known decree on the setting up of party propaganda in connection with the publication of the Short Course of the CPSU (B.) In 1938.
        И так было до "оттепели"

        Quote: Just BB
        and here

        The emergence of the discipline "Scientific Communism" characterizes the situation in the teaching of social sciences in the USSR during the thaw.

        Speech by Mikhail Suslov on 30 on January 1962 at the All-Union Meeting of the Heads of the Departments of Social Sciences is a formal starting point for the emergence of scientific communism.

        The history of the “Foundations of Scientific Communism” - In 1967, it was enshrined in a decree of the CPSU Central Committee “On Measures for the Further Formation of Social Sciences and the Enhancement of Their Role in Further Communist Construction”.

        From Stalin to Suslov, Shadow of Mao over the USSR
  • Nikolay K
    Nikolay K 4 January 2016 02: 49 New
    -10
    It’s pointless to go into details, well, you want to believe in scientific communism and the tsar-priest Joseph - it's a matter of the master. And speaking of facts, find statistics on the Internet that show the share of goods in agriculture and industry produced by private and collective farms. And you will see how under Stalin the proportion of the former declined many times.
    1. 34 region
      34 region 4 January 2016 03: 09 New
      13
      Hence the conclusion. Private economy is economically disadvantageous. The collective is more profitable than the private! Yes, and the global economy speaks about this. The most effective are large enterprises.
      1. Nikolay K
        Nikolay K 4 January 2016 10: 42 New
        -2
        Conclusions from what? Do you think the most effective Gazprom and Rosneft in our country? If we talk about global economic thought, it has long been proven that the larger the company, the less efficient it is managed, including because large companies become bureaucratic systems where the personal interests of the bureaucrat and the company do not coincide. But on the other hand, the economies of scale, i.e. cost savings on large volumes of production, no one has canceled. So the most effective medium-sized private enterprises, taking into account industry specifics.
      2. Simple
        Simple 4 January 2016 13: 31 New
        +4
        Quote: Region 34
        . The most effective are large enterprises.

        а Вы разницу м/у " частное" и "коллективное " ощущаете?

        The first place with a turnover in 2014 of $ 42,886 billion is occupied by CHS Inc., a company engaged in the production and supply of food and grain. In the 2013 year, the company also led, the turnover amounted to $ 44,480 billion. The value of assets, in contrast to the cash inflow for the year, increased by $ 1,5 billion from $ 13,504 to $ 15,147 billion. Dairy Farmers dairy cooperative moved from third to second place in 2014 of America. This happened due to revenue growth of almost $ 5 billion - from $ 12,879 in 2013 to $ 17,856 in 2014. The value of assets also increased by almost $ 800 million to $ 3,404 billion. On the contrary, Land O'Lakes Inc., another large dairy producer, also engaged in the production and supply of food products, fell from second to third place. Despite an increase in revenue from $ 14,287 billion to $ 15,276 billion and an increase in the assets of the cooperative to $ 6,992 billion compared to $ 6,758 billion in 2013, the company was unable to maintain its position.


        Вот как по Вашему Американская Monsanto это "частное" хозяйство или
        Quote: Region 34
        Collective

        ?
    2. alexander 2
      alexander 2 4 January 2016 06: 03 New
      30
      А вы можете найти в интернете статистику на сколько увеличилось население при Сталине и насколько уменьшилось при Горбачёве, Ельцине. Так кто уничтожал наш народ? И ещё. Сталину ставят в вину какое то не реальное и бездоказательное количество расстрелянных. Но даже те кто оперирует фактами почему то забывают уточнить сколько из них были грабителями, убийцами, предателями служившими врагу,у которых руки по локоть в крови. Я понимаю нынешнею "элиту" которая боится Сталина. Ведь при нём пришлось бы отвечать за все совершённые преступления. Поэтому и поливает грязью, а заодно и весь социализм в целом. Что бы людям и в голову не пришло вернуть социализм и Сталина.
      1. avva2012
        avva2012 4 January 2016 06: 40 New
        21
        By the way, about the article 58-m. Some points are directly requested in the new Criminal Code: 58-7. Undermining state industry, transport, trade, money circulation or the credit system, as well as cooperation committed for counter-revolutionary purposes through the appropriate use of state institutions and enterprises, or counteracting their normal activities, as well as using state institutions and enterprises or opposing their activities 58-10. Propaganda or agitation containing a call for the overthrow, undermining or weakening of Soviet power or for the commission of certain counter-revolutionary crimes 58-14. Counter-revolutionary sabotage, i.e. deliberate failure by someone to perform certain duties or intentionally carelessly performing them with the special purpose of weakening the power of the government and the activities of the state apparatus. The words counter-revolutionary, Soviet, can be removed (who do not like it), and everything else is very relevant for our time.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Nikolay K
        Nikolay K 4 January 2016 17: 43 New
        -2
        If we raise the statistics, then the fastest growing population of Russia grew in the second half of 19 in the beginning of 20 in (before 1914).
        When Stalin entrenched himself in power (1927-1929), the average annual natural population growth in Russia (RSFSR) was 2,05%, in the last three years of the Secretary General’s annual population growth decreased to 1,64%, or 20%. And also pay attention to how the natural increase fell in 1932-1934, in particular, only in 1933 the population of Russia decreased by 1926 thousand people, despite the fact that earlier it had grown by approximately 1,7 million people annually. You can calculate how many lives starvation took in just one year, and this is only in the RSFSR.
        Who cares, study
        https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9D%D0%B0%D1%81%D0%B5%D0%BB%D0%B5%D0%BD%D0%B8%D
        0%B5_%D0%A0%D0%BE%D1%81%D1%81%D0%B8%D0%B8#.D0.94.D0.BE_.D0.92.D0.B5.D0.BB.D0.B8.
        D0.BA.D0.BE.D0.B9_.D0.9E.D1.82.D0.B5.D1.87.D0.B5.D1.81.D1.82.D0.B2.D0.B5.D0.BD.D
        0.BD.D0.BE.D0.B9_.D0.B2.D0.BE.D0.B9.D0.BD.D1.8B
  • 34 region
    34 region 4 January 2016 02: 31 New
    19
    Nikolay K! Do not carry nonsense. The state gave something to a private trader at a state price, gave a plan for purchasing products from a private trader (state order). Sell ​​in excess of government orders at the market price. Today, there is a struggle for state orders for shopkeepers. Collectivization? Why don’t you cry for chain stores? They collectivized trade and ravaged the shuttles! And the creation of monopolies, multinational companies is not collectivization? But the ongoing crises is not collectivization? But is NATO, the EU, the WTO not collectivization? Grandmothers allowed to trade pork? And in the United States, raising plants and animals for the purpose of exchange or sale is prohibited. What is it like?
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Nikolay K
      Nikolay K 4 January 2016 13: 34 New
      -9
      Это вы не несите бред. Где это видано в СССР, чтобы ЧАСТНИКУ государство что-то выдавало по госцене, примеры в студию! Колхозам, артелям и другим КОЛЛЕКТИВНЫМ хозяйствам может быть, но не частникам. И еще расскажите, как в большинстве колхозов воровали все кому не лень: все вокруг народное, все вокруг мое. Лично я прекрасно помню, как в конце 80-х мои родственники работали в колхозе "для галочки", так как зарплата была копеечная. Зато держали скотину, которую кормили украденной на колхозных полях кукурузой, держали огород в гектар-другой, на котором выращивали на продажу картошку и лук, собственно с того и жили. Не напоминает ли вам эта советская система феодальную барщину, когда крепостной должен был сначала отработать на земле помещика, а потом уже мог работать на себя. Некоторые вкалывали в огороде от зари до зари, и за сезон могли заработать на машину, а то и больше. Но вкалывали они на собственном огороде, на колхоз им было плевать. Правда вкалывали меньшинство, остальные просто бухали с утра до вечера, хорошо им жилось при социализме.
      1. anew
        anew 4 January 2016 14: 19 New
        -4
        Quote: Nikolai K
        Does this Soviet system remind you of the feudal corvée, when the serf first had to work out the landowner on the ground, then he could already work for himself.

        This is corvée. Because the so-called socialism is ordinary pseudo-religious feudalism. Moreover, during the time of Dzhugashvili, he was at the same stage as before the abolition of serfdom. Those. in fact, under the sweet slogans there was a rollback of the state in the first half of the 19th century.
        А то и в 18в, т.к. барщина во времена "социализма" была не трехдневной, как при царизме начиная с 19в, а на полную катушку.
        1. bovig
          bovig 4 January 2016 22: 08 New
          +2
          Quote: anew
          Quote: Nikolai K
          Does this Soviet system remind you of the feudal corvée, when the serf first had to work out the landowner on the ground, then he could already work for himself.

          This is corvée. Because the so-called socialism is ordinary pseudo-religious feudalism. Moreover, during the time of Dzhugashvili, he was at the same stage as before the abolition of serfdom. Those. in fact, under the sweet slogans there was a rollback of the state in the first half of the 19th century.
          А то и в 18в, т.к. барщина во времена "социализма" была не трехдневной, как при царизме начиная с 19в, а на полную катушку.


          Oh, dear!)))) So you do not carry nonsense, but brazenly distort the facts and pervert reality!)) Such children of your parents are not the result of love, but the fruit of perverse sin in connection with the totalitarian ban on abortion! Or do you want to refute me?))))) Facts in the studio !!!
        2. Nikolay K
          Nikolay K 5 January 2016 17: 03 New
          -2
          Late to teach a fool a mind.
  • Just BB
    Just BB 4 January 2016 06: 04 New
    +2
    Такое ощущение, что Вы этот "марксизм-ленинизм" изучали при одноименном "Университете марксизма-ленинизма" при гарнизонном Доме офицеров winked
    1. Simple
      Simple 4 January 2016 13: 49 New
      +2
      Quote: Just BB
      Такое ощущение, что Вы этот "марксизм-ленинизм" изучали при одноименном "Университете марксизма-ленинизма" при гарнизонном Доме офицеров


      Quote: Nikolai K
      it is an enemy of Soviet power. And Stalin brutally eradicated this enemy.

      Not only Stalin.

      Marx argued that not only private property is subject to eradication, but also money, and the state, as such, and the family, as a social institution. Destroying only private property while preserving everything else is meaningless. Since it is not advisable to abolish either the family or the state, the Marxist dogma of the general socialization of property there is the same nonsense, so the thesis of the socialization of women.

      Хотя Сталин-ДА. Остальные "тЭорЭтики", а он практик,конкретный и с частником боролся. И еще как "боролся"




      -----------------------------
      Насчет частников у коммунистов вопрос " сложный" и "ПростоВВ"- просто не понимает сути вопроса:

      ... that capital (among the Communists) resources intended for consumption are not considered, but exclusively those resources which are aimed at making a profit.

      Accordingly: Mishanya Prokhorov (or Abramovich Romik) selling (exchanging) capital in the form of means of production for means of consumption (money, gold, yacht, airplane) - STOPPING TO BE A CAPITALIST PARTICIPANT
      1. bovig
        bovig 5 January 2016 05: 23 New
        0
        Стоило бы отметить, для объективности, не только ту часть речи Сталина, которую выгодно использовать в контексте со "сталинскими репрессиями", но ещё и ту, которая отображает "характер наступления и перелома": " Перелом этот шёл и продолжает идти под знаком решительного наступления социализма на капиталистические элементы города и деревни. Характерная особенность этого наступления состоит в том, что оно уже дало нам ряд решающих УСПЕХОВ в основных областях социалистической перестройки (реконструкции) нашего народного хозяйства". "Существо большевистского наступления состоит, далее, в том, чтобы мобилизовать максимум средств на дело ФИНАНСИРОВАНИЯ нашей индустрии, на дело ФИНАНСИРОВАНИЯ наших совхозов и колхозов..." (И. В. Сталин. Соч. т. 12 стр. 118.)
        Elementary Watson! For the purchase of tractors (which were even more effective than horses and oxen in those years), finances were needed that were not owned even by the most successful individual farmer, or a fist ... They could not stand the competition with state farms and collective farms! That was the state will caused by the need to confront external threats! The saboteurs and provocateurs who fell under article 58 were subjected to repression ...
      2. Just BB
        Just BB 5 January 2016 06: 54 New
        0
        Just RU Yesterday, 13:17 ↑ New

        I graduated from a technical university with a purely military specialty.
        According to Marxist-Leninist philosophy, there was a solid Troyak. I remember exactly.


        Just RU Yesterday, 13:27 ↑ New

        но это же не значит ,что Вы "истина в последней инстанции"?
        Maybe you studied poorly?

        Насчет частников у коммунистов вопрос " сложный" и "ПростоВВ"- просто не понимает сути вопроса:


        I will answer the words of the classic:

        "Than the gossips count to work,
        Isn't it better to turn on yourself, godfather? "-
        Ей Мишка отвечал"


        "Мастерски" выудить "нужную" цитату в нужный момент - это только подтверждение Вашего умения "пользователя интернета", увы - как говорит мой друг:" В школе нужно было хорошо учиться"
  • Alf
    Alf 4 January 2016 17: 11 New
    +3
    Quote: Nikolai K
    And among the classics it is clearly indicated that any owner, including a peasant, artisan and shopkeeper, is an enemy of Soviet power. And Stalin brutally eradicated this enemy.

    "Марксизм-ленинизм" и "сталинизм"-это немного разные понятия. В М-Л сказано, что надо, ни щадя своей страны броситься устраивать мировую революцию, даже если народ других стран к ней не готов. Основной принцип сталинизма-пусть народ другой страны сам начнет строить социализм, а мы поможем.
    And that the IVS mercilessly uprooted the owners, so he did it absolutely right. The fact is that the basis for this type of private traders is ownership of the means of production, i.e. the owner appropriates profits even in the presence of wage workers.
    In the Stalinist multistructured economy, there was ARTEL'NO-COOPERATIVE property, that is, one in which property is common to those people who joined this community.
    Quote: Nikolai K
    It’s just that food safety was a priority, because we started with de-peeling (collectivization) of peasants,

    А, скажите пожалуйста, может ли частник-единоличник-фермер накормить страну ? Нет, страну способны накормить только крупные агропредприятия (колхозы, совхозы, агрохолдинги-суть одна-совместная обработка земли). В советское время у человека был выбор-купить продукты подешевле в магазине, пусть хоть и чуть низшего качества или купить на рынке более качественные, хоть и подороже. Но при этом не голодал никто, продуктами была обеспечена вся страна по твердым госценам. А если доверить кормежку страны частникам, то произойдет то, что мы видим сейчас-частник может поставить любую цену или вообще придержать товар, а государство ничего не сможет сделать-"частный бизнес неприкосновеннен."
    Quote: Nikolai K
    And Khryashchev and Brezhnev only finally realized the covenants of their leaders,

    Stalinist and Khrushchev-Brezhnev socialism are two completely different things.
    1. Nikolay K
      Nikolay K 4 January 2016 18: 21 New
      0
      "А, скажите пожалуйста, может ли частник-единоличник-фермер накормить страну ? Нет, страну способны накормить только крупные агропредприятия (колхозы, совхозы, агрохолдинги-суть одна-совместная обработка земли)."

      Let's not confuse PRIVATE ownership of the means of production and COLLECTIVE. The first contradicted the tasks of building a socialist state and was suppressed in every way, the second was encouraged. At the same time, for private business using state, cooperative or other public forms, criminal liability was provided for in part 1 Art. 153 of the Criminal Code of the RSFSR. By the way, a small note about Stalin's artels
      http://kommari.livejournal.com/2634866.html

      As for which form of ownership is more effective in the same agriculture, it is not necessary to go far. In the 90 years, all former collective farms in our country had the status of a collective farm, most often the SEC - an agricultural production cooperative. Now there are no more than 5% of them left, the rest went bankrupt or changed their form of ownership. Moreover, in a huge number of cases, it was either a deliberate removal of assets from the enterprise by its chairman and subsequent bankruptcy, or simply inefficient housekeeping, losses and, again, closure. Many people lost property and land included in the cooperative. At the same time, most agricultural products are now produced by medium and large private farms, while the last 2 of the year we have been producing record yields despite the complete collapse of our own seed production, which has reduced the amount of fertilizers (they are exported) and high market prices for fuel and lubricants etc. It turns out that collective farms lose competition to the private in competition. Why? For one simple reason, when the property is dispersed, and the management is collective, the manager has a great temptation to work not for the team, but for his own pocket, especially in the absence of real control. And he thinks, first of all, not about the public good, but how to fill his personal pocket. And this is not news of today. Who during the USSR had the richest houses in the countryside? The chairman, chief agronomist and chief accountant of the collective farm. It has always been, is and will be. So while there is private property, it will be economically more effective than any other.
      1. Alf
        Alf 4 January 2016 20: 59 New
        +3
        Quote: Nikolai K
        It turns out that collective farms lose competition to the private in competition. Why? For one simple reason, when the property is dispersed, and the management is collective, the manager has a great temptation to work not for the team, but for his own pocket, especially in the absence of real control.

        And who is talking about such a management system? Then in collective farms, which were artels and cooperatives, there was a MANDATORY REPLACEMENT management of the economy on the basis of elections.
        Quote: Nikolai K
        Let's not confuse PRIVATE ownership of the means of production and COLLECTIVE. The first contradicted the tasks of building a socialist state and was suppressed in every way, the second was encouraged. At the same time, for private business using state, cooperative or other public forms, criminal liability was provided for under Part 1 of Art. 153 of the Criminal Code of the RSFSR. By the way

        So I talked about it above.
        And then, the system was set up in such a way that the cooperatives and collective farms complemented each other.
        So while there is private property, it will be economically more effective than any other.

        No, it will not. Private traders will produce what is beneficial to him, and not to the state. We will not go far for examples. Take a vocational training system. Now there is a wild shortage of workers, and private colleges are produced by economists and lawyers. Why? Because for the training of managers and lawyers you can do more.
        1. poquello
          poquello 4 January 2016 23: 06 New
          -2
          where so much nonsense
          Quote: Alf
          ... Then in the collective farms, which were the cooperatives and cooperatives, there was a MANDATORY CHANGE management of the farm on the basis of elections ...

          колхоз "Рассвет" - они Вам нахозяйствуют
          Quote: Alf
          ... Take a vocational training system. Now there is a wild shortage of workers, and private colleges are produced by economists and lawyers. Why? Because for the training of managers and lawyers you can do more.

          demand creates supply, a large number of applicants to lawyers, like an ardent Stalinist really want to send them to where the party will order ?, and then they will send your party, it was already
        2. bovig
          bovig 4 January 2016 23: 59 New
          +3
          "спрос рождает предложение, большое количество желающих в юристы, как ярый сталинец очень хотите их послать куда партия прикажет?, а они потом пошлют вашу партию, было уже" -
          And with what fright did you decide that we have such a great demand for lawyers? For the most part, all law graduates are sent not to where the party orders, but much further and popularly ...)))) They raped them for training and they are not needed by anyone else! So, if there is no one to make a protégé, then all these newly-made lawyers (aki and economists) go to work in private security agencies at best ...
        3. poquello
          poquello 5 January 2016 00: 20 New
          0
          Quote: bovig
          "спрос рождает предложение, большое количество желающих в юристы, как ярый сталинец очень хотите их послать куда партия прикажет?, а они потом пошлют вашу партию, было уже" -
          And with what fright did you decide that we have such a great demand for lawyers? For the most part, all law graduates are sent not to where the party orders, but much further and popularly ...)))) They raped them for training and they are not needed by anyone else! So, if there is no one to make a protégé, then all these newly-made lawyers (aki and economists) go to work in private security agencies at best ...

          You are absolutely right, they have nowhere to go, but they wanted to become lawyers, hence the demand. Quoting a lawyer will not work, because a person doesn’t have to get an education for work, well, he wants to have a law degree, but to oblige these colleges to have places for which specialties are not enough. And it is necessary to make jobs attractive, raise salaries, create comfortable working conditions, or mechanize, robotize.
        4. bovig
          bovig 5 January 2016 05: 50 New
          +1
          "Вы совершенно правы, идти им некуда, а хотели они стать юристами, отсюда и спрос. " - это уж, простите, не рыночный спрос, а скорее личный каприз - что хочу, то и покупаю на рынке образовательных услуг!)))) Вот и "государственный" интерес тут просматривается - содрать первую шкуру с юного гражданина и отпустить на вольные хлеба для наращивания новой шкурки...))) Мудрая государственная политика в стиле либерального модернизма!)))) А при Сталине был жутчайший тоталитаризм!!!))))) Да и весь советский период образование квотировалось местами в образовательных учреждениях и планированием рабочих мест для будущих выпускников... Просто жуткая картина!))))
        5. poquello
          poquello 6 January 2016 00: 34 New
          0
          Quote: bovig
          "Вы совершенно правы, идти им некуда, а хотели они стать юристами, отсюда и спрос. " - это уж, простите, не рыночный спрос, а скорее личный каприз - что хочу, то и покупаю на рынке образовательных услуг!))))...

          Demand is the most natural, if I buy a certain brand of cigarettes - so they carry them for me. And those who are hungry for these lawyers and others to shove power into the machine - they are nostalgic for the slaves, but they themselves do not want or do not know how, they are not able, out of greed or inability to solve the shortage of workers at their enterprises, to ensure the required profitability and efficiency of the process.
      2. Just BB
        Just BB 5 January 2016 07: 08 New
        +1
        And it is necessary to make jobs attractive, raise salaries, create comfortable working conditions, or mechanize, robotize.

        "Вопрос, конечно, интересный..."
        Who will do this? Private trader?
        If it will be then the last. But then who will buy his products?
      3. poquello
        poquello 6 January 2016 00: 52 New
        0
        Quote: Just VV
        And it is necessary to make jobs attractive, raise salaries, create comfortable working conditions, or mechanize, robotize.

        "Вопрос, конечно, интересный..."
        Who will do this? Private trader?
        If it will be then the last. But then who will buy his products?

        The form of ownership does not play a role in this issue, the army is a good example - they created the conditions and the people went. The cost of the final product does not consist solely of costs for workers, if any private owner does not understand this - this is his bar.
  • bovig
    bovig 4 January 2016 22: 54 New
    +3
    Quote: Nikolai K
    "А, скажите пожалуйста, может ли частник-единоличник-фермер накормить страну ? Нет, страну способны накормить только крупные агропредприятия (колхозы, совхозы, агрохолдинги-суть одна-совместная обработка земли)."

    Let's not confuse PRIVATE ownership of the means of production and COLLECTIVE. The first contradicted the tasks of building a socialist state and was suppressed in every way, the second was encouraged. At the same time, for private business using state, cooperative or other public forms, criminal liability was provided for in part 1 Art. 153 of the Criminal Code of the RSFSR. By the way, a small note about Stalin's artels
    http://kommari.livejournal.com/2634866.html

    As for which form of ownership is more effective in the same agriculture, it is not necessary to go far. In the 90 years, all former collective farms in our country had the status of a collective farm, most often the SEC - an agricultural production cooperative. Now there are no more than 5% of them left, the rest went bankrupt or changed their form of ownership. Moreover, in a huge number of cases, it was either a deliberate removal of assets from the enterprise by its chairman and subsequent bankruptcy, or simply inefficient housekeeping, losses and, again, closure. Many people lost property and land included in the cooperative. At the same time, most agricultural products are now produced by medium and large private farms, while the last 2 of the year we have been producing record yields despite the complete collapse of our own seed production, which has reduced the amount of fertilizers (they are exported) and high market prices for fuel and lubricants etc. It turns out that collective farms lose competition to the private in competition. Why? For one simple reason, when the property is dispersed, and the management is collective, the manager has a great temptation to work not for the team, but for his own pocket, especially in the absence of real control. And he thinks, first of all, not about the public good, but how to fill his personal pocket. And this is not news of today. Who during the USSR had the richest houses in the countryside? The chairman, chief agronomist and chief accountant of the collective farm. It has always been, is and will be. So while there is private property, it will be economically more effective than any other.

    Факты верные, да выводы неверные... Если нет целенаправленной государственной политики в области сельского хозяйства, то не будет эффективного хозяйства ни у фермера, ни у колхоза! Независимо от формы собственности! Но капитализм, особенно в современной форме, не выражен в частной собственности на средства производства, а выражен в ПРАВЕ на частную собственность, например, в виде акционерного капитала... Это ПРАВО не предусматривает ответственности даже за состояние средств производства, а предусматривает ПРАВО на распределение прибыли, полученной в следствии хозяйственной деятельности... Всю ответственность за состояние средств производства, в итоге, водрузили непосредственно на персонал, осуществляющий хозяйственную деятельность на этих средствах производства, а все "сливки" этой деятельности получают (по праву собственности) ни за что не отвечающие "собственники"... Вам не кажется, что тут что то нетак? Или вы сами из этих "собственников"?))) Самое интересное, что в случае банкротства, "рискующие" акциями (по сути бумагой) умудряются получить свою маржу от распродажи средств производства - такова практика...
    1. Just BB
      Just BB 5 January 2016 07: 17 New
      +1
      100500
      provides the LAW for the distribution of profits earned as a result of economic activity

      Now let's think about it:
      "При каком "...-изме" рядовой труженик participated в распределении прибыли?"
    2. bovig
      bovig 6 January 2016 07: 15 New
      0
      Quote: Just VV
      100500
      provides the LAW for the distribution of profits earned as a result of economic activity

      Now let's think about it:
      "При каком "...-изме" рядовой труженик participated в распределении прибыли?"

      The worker is least interested in isms, it is important for him that his work be paid in accordance with the agreement ... To the best of his understanding of the course of things, he works for himself, and to the best of his understanding, for the one who understands more. And the laborer begins to understand the isms only from the moment when they begin to cheat him openly and openly, not to pay for the work done ... You cleverly turned the arrows ...))
  • bovig
    bovig 4 January 2016 20: 44 New
    +1
    Quote: Nikolai K
    You, apparently, poorly studied Marxism-Leninism, if you think so primitively. And the classics clearly indicated that any owner, including a peasant, artisan and shopkeeper, is an enemy of Soviet power. And Stalin brutally eradicated this enemy. Just then, food safety was a priority, because they started with de-peeling (collectivization) of peasants, the shopkeepers and artisans did not immediately get their hands on, although more or less large artels also took control. But Khryashchev and Brezhnev only finally realized the covenants of their leaders, driving artisanal underground. Well, except that they allowed grandmothers to trade socks and peasants with chicken and pork, grown in their yard on feed stolen from collective farm fields. Just do not transplant all the grandmothers.


    Nikolai, apparently you studied Marxism-Leninism so intensely and so deeply comprehended it that you lost touch with reality ...)))) However, not only with reality ... You messed it up in theory seriously! You can’t take phrases taken out of context so close to heart! They must be perceived by the mind in conjunction with all teaching. You have perverted the Marxist-Leninist teaching in your mind and you carry this nonsense publicly! Identical: the road to hell is paved with good intentions! This is when the actions in the implementation of the idea have nothing to do with the idea itself, or when the cart is harnessed in front of the horse!)))
  • Volzhanin
    Volzhanin 5 January 2016 16: 41 New
    0
    Мысль отчасти верная. "Отчасти" потому что сказанное про Сталина наивная, либо намеренная ложь!
    Take the trouble to read the sources first, before mixing everything in a heap.
    1. anew
      anew 5 January 2016 17: 22 New
      0
      Quote: Volzhanin
      "Отчасти" потому что сказанное про Сталина наивная, либо намеренная ложь!

      Whom? Who is it so brazenly slandered? Ah, this exiled criminal-raider Dzhugashvili. Of course, the saint was a man. This is generally a mass phenomenon among raiders. Probably.
      PS. And he would be conceived immaculately. I tell you exactly.
  • 34 region
    34 region 4 January 2016 02: 21 New
    +1
    As a result, one deficit replaced another. Commodity rampant, money shortages. Question. And what for a goat button accordion? Or is a shortage of money today the same as a shortage of goods? Nobody just notices him?
    1. Iskander69
      Iskander69 4 January 2016 08: 48 New
      +4
      "В итоге один дефицит сменил другой. Товаров валом, денег дефицит. " Товаров валом, - но товар весь ГОВНО. Качественных товаров днем с огнем не сыскать, как при том пресловутом товарном дефиците, а то и хуже. Если найдешь колбасу нормальную, денег отвалишь вагон и тележку маленькую.
  • Kyustenkats
    Kyustenkats 4 January 2016 08: 19 New
    +2
    I met an interesting idea in the Soviet-era electronics textbook, confirming your idea. It said that the Soviet Union did not specifically switch to a new type of electronics in order to save jobs. It was praised that they thus take care of people.
  • redeemer
    redeemer 4 January 2016 00: 01 New
    +9
    yeah .. female logic. They also tell you about the Stalinist economy. and indeed, if we talk about the Brezhnev and Khrushchev periods of the USSR, we must understand: the USSR as a project was already being closed, enemies came to power. due to the fact that the main victory of the USSR was a new kind of people, the destruction of the country was possible only with the destruction and perversion of memory (the final part of the process we are now observing especially clearly on the example of Ukraine). the instrument was cinema and pop. It’s not for nothing that the country has now been given over to these demons and plundered, like soldiers of the army of invaders.
    and about women's logic ... pay attention to the fact that no one speaks of equality, they speak of the complete superiority of women. pay attention to other facts related to women by their qualities and place in society. and think about why such a massive and unambiguously expensive advertising campaign is being conducted (and you can’t name this process in any other way). I’ll tell you that there is already an example of this in human history. only the will there was higher. and the goal is different. and the result ...........
  • GSH-18
    GSH-18 4 January 2016 00: 11 New
    -13
    Quote: Ami du peuple
    The fact of the matter is that I had in mind precisely the Stalinist mixed economy.

    Chevo Chevo ?? belay You respected by someone here are confused with the NEP? But Duc he was not under Stalin.
    Я лично, против наступать на те же грабли! Генсек и цккпсс пусть остаются в своём прошлом. Мы видели все, к чему в итоге привело это "плановОе" управление-к развалу великой страны! А я лично, категорически против развала РФ и в частности РОССИИ! У нас есть наш современный, грамотный и решительный лидер. Я, как 90% населения РФ ему верю! И ни какой плановОй экономики с цккпсс мне и даром не нать! yes That's something like this and not otherwise.
    1. Ami du peuple
      Ami du peuple 4 January 2016 01: 59 New
      10
      Quote: GSH-18
      You respected by someone here are confused with the NEP? But Duc he was not under Stalin.

      Very even under Stalin. The beginning of the NEL - 1921, sunset - 1928-1931. Recall when Stalin was elected Secretary General of the Central Committee of the CPSU (b)?
      Quote: GSH-18
      Мы видели все, к чему в итоге привело это "плановОе" управление-к развалу великой страны

      Yes, yes, the Gosplan is to blame for everything! Very subtle remark about the causes of the collapse of the USSR.
      Quote: GSH-18
      We have our modern, competent and decisive leader. I, as 90% of the population of the Russian Federation, believe him! And not what kind of planned economy with the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the People's Forces and not for nothing! That's something like this and not otherwise.

      But is it nothing that Putin is now raising the question of introducing planning elements in the national economy? Or have you not yet reached this moment? wink Когда возродится обновленный Госплан, что тогда скажете, один из "90% населения РФ"?
      Кстати, своего рода ЦК КПСС и сейчас существует. Называется Высший Политсовет партии "Единая Россия". Но это так, к слову..
      1. anew
        anew 4 January 2016 02: 18 New
        -31
        Quote: Ami du peuple
        Когда возродится обновленный Госплан, что тогда скажете, один из "90% населения РФ"?

        If, God forbid, Gosplan is revived, then it will be necessary to think quickly. Because he’ll probably come next HUNGER. These are twin brothers. One without the other, as history shows, does not happen.
        1. CHILD
          CHILD 4 January 2016 02: 59 New
          +7
          Your story is very strange ... and the logical chains are strange .... why not blame Ilyich’s bulb ?!
          1. Ami du peuple
            Ami du peuple 4 January 2016 03: 15 New
            +8
            Quote: KIND
            Your story is very strange ... and the logical chains are strange .... why not blame Ilyich’s bulb ?!

            A light bulb cannot be - it is terribly useful. She in the head of our Dutch friend cockroaches illuminates the road bully
          2. anew
            anew 4 January 2016 11: 08 New
            -7
            Quote: KIND
            Your story is very strange

            This is not mine. This USSR had a strange story. The story of one big famine. True, there was enlightenment under Brezhnev. This was when there was a cycle of high oil prices. Then there was no famine. But it was a short period that ended traditionally.
            Quote: KIND
            and why not blame the lamp of Ilyich?

            In what? Is there no pants in the store? So Gosplan was engaged in this, and not a light bulb.
            1. CHILD
              CHILD 4 January 2016 11: 47 New
              +3
              You are sorry, you are talking nonsense ... aren’t you laughing at all yourself ?! and collectivization with nationalization is not far off))
              1. anew
                anew 4 January 2016 12: 08 New
                -9
                Quote: KIND
                by the way, everything returns to the planned economy)))) wait a few years ..... and then collectivization with nationalization is not far off)

                Those. do you want people to go through all that hell a second time? Do not understand the consequences? Or are you keen on having someone breakfast? Maybe you better get a psychiatrist?
                Yes, and one more thing. Have you tried to work? Do not go to work, namely to work? Try it, maybe you will like it. Then such thoughts will fly out of my head at once.
              2. CHILD
                CHILD 4 January 2016 12: 56 New
                +4
                .... and I have been working since I was 16 ... I served ... I worked ... teach yourself life ... you are not even a Russian ... you are just those who are kind of your own, but worse than enemies (hello to the psychiatrist) .. .. their enemies do not sell for a chocolate bar .... and now because of people like you I look what’s wrong with the country ... and it’s a shame for the power ... my parents taught my Motherland to love and make it better here and now ... and you?! ... wise guy ... at least take an interest in the State Planning Commission .... no more dumb people came up with you ...
              3. anew
                anew 4 January 2016 13: 18 New
                -6
                Quote: KIND
                their enemies do not sell for chocolate

                А почему вы решили что неосталинисты и неокоммунисты мне "свои"? Я за белых, если что. За правду и лучшую жизнь для России.
                Quote: KIND
                my parents taught my homeland to love and make it better here and now

                Poorly taught. To love the Motherland means to wish her and her people all the best. But you can’t say that. It, this population, only got out of Soviet shit. Only a little start to breathe. And you want him there again, back, dunk his head. Are those who call back home love? I don’t think so. They basically only talk about this topic. They love only themselves, loved ones. And they don’t really like to work.
                Quote: KIND
                and you?! ... wise guy ... at least take an interest in the State Planning Commission .... no more dumb people came up with you ...

                I, unlike you, even worked there for a while. So not by hearsay I know about the clever men there.
              4. bovig
                bovig 5 January 2016 00: 35 New
                0
                "А почему вы решили что неосталинисты и неокоммунисты мне "свои"? Я за белых, если что. За правду и лучшую жизнь для России." -
                За голландскую правду и за "лучшую жизнь для России" вне России... Очень патриотично!!! Только позвольте выбирать лучшую жизнь для России тем, кто в ней проживает. И без "умных" советов тех, кто "за белых"... Белых и горячих, понимаш ли...
          3. bovig
            bovig 5 January 2016 00: 23 New
            0
            Quote: anew
            Quote: KIND
            by the way, everything returns to the planned economy)))) wait a few years ..... and then collectivization with nationalization is not far off)

            Those. do you want people to go through all that hell a second time? Do not understand the consequences? Or are you keen on having someone breakfast? Maybe you better get a psychiatrist?
            Yes, and one more thing. Have you tried to work? Do not go to work, namely to work? Try it, maybe you will like it. Then such thoughts will fly out of my head at once.

            А вы, простите, кем там в Голландии работаете? )))) Или каким то определённым местом? Которым не ходите, но работаете?))) Вот я все думаю: отчего Европа так склонна к однополым бракам? Не потому ли, что все здравые мысли из головы вылетели разом?)))) От усердной "работы"...
          4. anew
            anew 5 January 2016 00: 54 New
            -2
            Quote: bovig
            So i think everything

            I am amused. What do you think? What apparatus do you have for this?
            He thinks and thinks everything. Thinker, damn it, sofa.
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      3. poquello
        poquello 5 January 2016 00: 38 New
        0
        Quote: KIND
        You are sorry, you are talking nonsense ... aren’t you laughing at all yourself ?! and collectivization with nationalization is not far off))

        ну кому и ботинки фабрики "Заря" модельная обувь, дело в общем субъективное
    2. Andrey VOV
      Andrey VOV 6 January 2016 19: 41 New
      -1
      Stop !!! What hunger in 60-80 years ... yes, it was empty in the shops, but at home was all that was needed .. stop the crap about the hunger
      1. anew
        anew 8 January 2016 00: 28 New
        0
        Quote: Andrey VOV
        Stop !!! What a famine in 60-80 years ...

        Before spraying indignant saliva, take the trouble to read my comment.
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  • 34 region
    34 region 4 January 2016 03: 12 New
    +7
    Twin capitalism and poverty, brothers! Or is your life rich under your capitalism? And what in the US 50 million are on the cards? There that? Do not fit into the market?
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. anew
      anew 4 January 2016 11: 19 New
      -7
      Quote: Region 34
      And what in the US 50 million are on the cards?

      And why not 500 million? Or not 5 billion? Wider need to think. Large-scale.
      And those who receive cards do not mind. Cards, this is the same money. Only they can not be drunk. And you can’t buy drugs on them. It is the right form of assistance to the poor.
      Or is your life rich under your capitalism?

      По данным Allianz за 2014г. самые бедные ЕСовские "капиталисты", это румыны. Но при этом средний румын по уровню накопленного богатства "стоит", как почти 5 средних россиян (4,7). А, например, средний эстонец, как 12.
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. Nikolay K
      Nikolay K 4 January 2016 13: 41 New
      -6
      Under capitalism, there are beggars, the rich and the middle class. Under socialism, only the middle class and the poor. Well, except that official Volga and ZIL, departmental clinics, sanatoriums, summer cottages at the party elite. But without the rich. So do you like it better?
      1. Just BB
        Just BB 5 January 2016 07: 34 New
        +1
        Have you lived under socialism?
        Where and when?
        Or do you still believe that a socialist society was built in the USSR?
        Да, строительство велось, но как сейчас это можно увидеть - "здание на уровне 1-го этажа, под окна", а не так как говорили генсеки: "Социализм!", "Развитой социализм!"
        1. anew
          anew 5 January 2016 10: 43 New
          -1
          Quote: Just BB
          Да, строительство велось, но как сейчас это можно увидеть - "здание на уровне 1-го этажа, под окна"

          On a rotten foundation, feudal production relations, a social state cannot be built. Only a freak like the USSR. Which could exist only with a gag. And repressions of those who disagree.
        2. Just BB
          Just BB 5 January 2016 16: 45 New
          -1
          Так фундамент отлили с "нуля": "Весь мир насилья мы разрушим!"
          А вот построить не удалось - "кирпичи расп..з...ли". Старый "прораб" умер, а новым - только покрасоваться.
        3. anew
          anew 5 January 2016 17: 30 New
          0
          Quote: Just BB
          Так фундамент отлили с "нуля"

          What nonsense. Noodles specially for people like you.
        4. The comment was deleted.
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  • EvgNik
    EvgNik 4 January 2016 05: 56 New
    +8
    Quote: anew
    If, God forbid, Gosplan is revived, then it will be necessary to think quickly. Because HUNGER will surely come next.

    Where did you get this nonsense in your head? From Ukraine, or what, inspired?
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 4 January 2016 11: 49 New
      +5
      For many centuries, it was the advent of Soviet power that ended the famine in Russia.
      Странно, правда? Есть данные, что еще в конце 19-го века, умерло от голода около 2-х миллионов человек (большевики видать виноваты). Подобные "голодоморы", повторялись с определенной периодичностью. Интересно, см. интернет.
      1. Nikolay K
        Nikolay K 4 January 2016 14: 11 New
        -3
        The last mass famine was after the Patriotic War. In your opinion, by that time we did not yet have Soviet power? Yes, in pre-revolutionary Russia there was also famine, the cause of which was, above all, crop failure. But it was sort of like the landlord bloodsuckers. And Stalin managed to organize a famine without reference to crop failures, the peasants simply seized grain, sending it to the city and for export. This is such a paradox; its own popular government took away bread from the starving in order to earn money on this. In particular, after the war, severe famine was in 1946 and especially in 1947. There is no exact data on the number of deaths (estimates are 1-1,5 million people), but in 1947, official mortality in the USSR increased 1,5 times compared to the hungry 1946 year (about 800 thousand people). Approximately 20% of all deaths at that time were children. At the same time, about 1946 million tons of grain were exported from the USSR to 1948-4,5 from the USSR, including 0,5 million tons. to France, a large volume of grain was supplied as an aid to East Germany. And about 1,4 million tons It was exported directly in the midst of famine. For you to understand, such an amount of grain would be enough to produce 1,5 million people per 1,5 kg of bread daily for 0,5 years. That is, their bread in the USSR was quite enough, and the death of 1,5 million people lies solely on the conscience of the Soviet government.
        1. anew
          anew 4 January 2016 14: 25 New
          -3
          Quote: Nikolai K
          a large volume of grain was supplied as an aid to eastern Germany

          И не только им, всем будущим "друзьям" перепало. Поэтому сильного послевоенного голода в Восточной Европе после 2МВ не отмечено. Ценой этому стали жизни совграждан. Вот она, "благодарность" Джугашвили и его шайки.
        2. avva2012
          avva2012 4 January 2016 15: 09 New
          +5
          Nikolai K, you are an ordinary anti-adviser. For your fantasies, you use liberal tricks. On the Internet, there is data on the repressed, starving, even on the number of people eaten. Hunger is precisely cannibalism. Outside the transition to this, there is no hunger. Eating, just reducing food intake. In your research, is there evidence of cannibalism in the USSR in 1947? If not, then you are not correctly setting forth the facts. No need to distort, 1946-47gg., After such a war increased child mortality? And how many were not born? For you to understand, such an amount of grain would be enough to produce 1,5 million people per 1,5 kg of bread daily for 0,5 years. That is, their bread in the USSR was quite enough, and the death of 1,5 million people lies solely on the conscience of the Soviet government.Arithmetic is lame. Where are the statistics on the starvation of 1,5 million people? Propaganda. You are not a troll Nikolai, you are a provocateur. You are a traitor. You hate your homeland, you substitute (judging by the flag) your homeland. I'm sorry for you, but it's your choice. I hope thirty pieces of silver, you received or in exchange, the order (of the same weight), as the hero of Ukraine Mazepa.
        3. Nikolay K
          Nikolay K 4 January 2016 17: 03 New
          0
          "Голод-это именно каннибализм. Вне перехода на такое, голода нет. Есть, просто уменьшение потребления пищи."

          I have no words.
        4. Nikolay K
          Nikolay K 4 January 2016 17: 07 New
          0
          The anti-Soviet is only a political worldview. But scum in any political color remains scum.
        5. avva2012
          avva2012 5 January 2016 08: 42 New
          0
          Distort. An anti-Soviet is always scum, so historically. There will be time, Krasnov and Solzhenitsyn will take an interest.
  • bovig
    bovig 5 January 2016 00: 52 New
    0
    Nikolay K, and you cleverly shuffle and distort information, like a real sharpie ... Skills of a katala?)))) Only with cards is it dangerous to handle this way now - a skull can suffer, and it’s safe to make money in virtual space decently, not so whether?)))
  • Just BB
    Just BB 5 January 2016 07: 41 New
    +2
    Among my friends there are not a small number of people, including my aunt, born in 1948.
    If there was a famine, would children be born?
    It was difficult - the fascist raked and burned everything, but people were recovering!
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  • anew
    anew 5 January 2016 10: 56 New
    -1
    Quote: Just VV
    Among my friends there are not a small number of people, including my aunt, born in 1948.
    If there was a famine, would children be born?

    Так и в 30-х годах жуткий голод не во всем СССР был. Где Госплан распланировал "ударные" хлебозаготовки, там он и был.
  • Just BB
    Just BB 5 January 2016 16: 49 New
    -1
    The most joyless thing for you is that most of them reserve officers of the RF Armed Forces and come from all over the USSR soldier
  • anew
    anew 5 January 2016 17: 32 New
    0
    For me, what sorrow?
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  • Nikolay K
    Nikolay K 5 January 2016 13: 35 New
    0
    At the height of the famine in 1947, 1680 thousand people died in the RSFSR. 1210 thousand people died in the previous year, i.e. mortality immediately increased by almost 40%. The fact that this was an increase not caused by natural demographic factors is evidenced by the fact that in the 1948 year, mortality almost also sharply decreased to 1310 thousand people, and next year to 1187 thousand people. That is, only in 1947, for unknown reasons, about 470 thousand people died, and this, I repeat, only in the RSFSR, on a Union-wide scale, the number is larger.

    As for your aunt, I also know many 1948 years of birth and so what? Even in the hungry 1947 year, 2715 thousand people were born in the RSFSR. If statistics say that 20% of the dead were children, then this is about 335 thousand people. Accordingly, at least 2380 thousand children of 1947 year of birth were able to survive this hungry year.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • 34 region
    34 region 4 January 2016 02: 36 New
    0
    Are you against the CPSU? No question. Get United Russia. You do not want? Well then get the power of capital. Anything that only representatives of the capital will be in power?
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Nikolay K
      Nikolay K 4 January 2016 12: 46 New
      -1
      So you yourself voted for this United Russia, and you’ll get the power of crooks and thieves. Or did you vote for the Communist Party and its great leader, Comrade Zyuganov? So then it’s not so, he certainly certainly adamantly defends your beliefs. Or is it not so adamant? Or are the Communists themselves not averse to tossing personal capital? That again the fifth column betrayed the country and do we need a new Stalin? And the word AGAIN does not bother you? Do not you think that the fact that the country is once again stepping on the same rake is no longer an accident, but a regularity. And most of the gorlopans who care about popular happiness under any slogans, even red, even green and blue, after coming to power, suddenly they themselves are not averse to driving expensive cars, living in palaces, sending their kids to study in London, and then giving them warm and bready place, and their wives suddenly turn out to be terribly talented entrepreneurs and earn billions. While the people will be uninitiated, politically inert and cowardly, it will be a herd of sheep, which will always be controlled by some goats .. it doesn’t matter whether they are white, gray or red.
      1. bovig
        bovig 5 January 2016 01: 03 New
        +2
        "Что опять страну предала пятая колона и нужен новый сталин? А вас не смущает слово ОПЯТЬ? Не кажется ли вам, что тот факт, что страна в очередной раз наступает на одни и те же грабли, это уже не случайность, а закономерность. И большинство горлопанов, которые пекутся о счастье народном под любыми лозунгами, хоть красными, хоть зелеными с голубыми, после прихода к власти вдруг сами не прочь ездить на дорогих автомобилях, жить во дворцах, посылать своих детишек на обучение в Лондон, а потом давать им теплое и хлебное местечко, а их жены вдруг оказываются жутко талантливыми предпринимателями и зарабатывают миллиарды." -
        Interesting set out! Is that all that is directly related to Stalin?
  • Sober
    Sober 4 January 2016 06: 18 New
    0
    We saw this planned economy. And the happiness of peoples.
    There is a leader. The country is rising. Nobody said it was easy. And there are plenty of traitors who take advantage of today's difficulties, and try to pervert and ruin everything. Many of these were raised during times of acceleration. I trust our president, Putin.
  • Extraneous
    Extraneous 4 January 2016 15: 17 New
    +6
    Quote: GSH-18
    And no plan for the economy

    And what economy do you consider budget planning? Any state plans to develop its economy. The only difference is in the methods of influencing domestic production by the relevant regulators.
    Quote: GSH-18
    The Secretary General and the Central Committee of the Communist Party of the Independent States remain in their past ...... We have our modern, competent and decisive leader. I, as 90% of the population of the Russian Federation, believe him

    Don't you think there is some contradiction here? Strong power is a rigid pyramid. In the case of the USSR, the secretary general and the CPSU. In our case, you give their role to Putin and his party. What is the difference?
    Quote: GSH-18
    Мы видели все, к чему в итоге привело это "плановОе" управление-к развалу великой страны

    Here you repeat the version of the liberals who are very interested in it, since it was they who actively participated in the collapse of the USSR and the looting of the country.
    No power system can be destroyed without external pressure. Any revolution, coup, changing the very system of power - is always the result of external intervention. Internal coups do not change the system. They use it and reanimate in case of weakening.
  • Nikolay K
    Nikolay K 4 January 2016 11: 19 New
    -9
    Сталинская "многоукладность" это остатки частной экономики, которую он же не успел добить после официального закрытия проекта НЭПа. Хрущев лишь продолжил дело Сталина и прикрыл частника окончательно в полном соответствии с заветам вождей. Если вы позабыли, напомню, что СССР строил коммунизм, а коммунизм и частная собственность на средства производства вещи несовместимые.
    1. CHILD
      CHILD 4 January 2016 13: 10 New
      +3
      ... everyone somehow forgets a simple and funny fact ... under Stalin, the withdrawal of money from circulation was seriously considered, the reasons for not luck are rather political .... the modern economy is quietly silent .... the conversation is about different economic and social systems .. .
      1. anew
        anew 4 January 2016 13: 21 New
        -4
        Quote: KIND
        under Stalin, the withdrawal of money from circulation was seriously considered, the reasons for not luck are rather political ....

        Of course. After all, everything was distributed by cards. And after their cancellation, the prices of goods were simply unlimited. They were even corrected several times, downward. The people could not afford.
        1. Alf
          Alf 4 January 2016 17: 39 New
          +4
          Quote: anew
          And after their cancellation, the prices of goods were simply unlimited.

          Tales do not need to be told, not at a liberal get-together.
          Prices were quite reasonable. My grandfather, working as a foreman in a foundry, received 900 rubles until the 61st year, while my grandmother sat at home raising three children. And nobody was starving, yes, they weren’t giggling, but they weren’t hungry.
          Quote: anew
          They were even corrected several times, downward.

          Prices were reduced for the simple reason that labor productivity was growing. Labor productivity was growing, more and more goods were being produced, it became possible to lower the price of products, which led, firstly, to an improvement in demography, and, secondly, to an improvement in the quality of life.
          American intelligence agencies were actively engaged in studying the growth rates of labor productivity in the USSR. In the recently published book in the USA, "Observation of the bear. CIA Analyst Essays on the Soviet Union "said that" the strengths of the Soviet system of centralized enterprise management seem to outweigh its weaknesses. " It is no coincidence that the United States by the mid-1950s. were afraid to give the USSR first place in the world economy. At that time, the system of economic calculation was still working, which made it possible to achieve success in industrialization, the Great Patriotic War, and post-war reconstruction.
          1. anew
            anew 4 January 2016 18: 13 New
            -4
            Quote: Alf
            And nobody was starving, yes, they weren’t giggling, but they weren’t hungry.

            What are you bragging about? That your grandfather’s children were not forced to eat neighbors? Is this a great achievement in itself? Can you brag about this already?
            We look prod. basket for 1953, for example. This year it was 510 rubles per person per month. So, you say, 900 rubles for five a month? So you say you weren’t hungry? Oh well. Go on. You are doing well.
            Quote: Alf
            Labor productivity grew, more and more goods were produced, it became possible to lower the price of products, which led, firstly, to an improvement in demography, and, secondly, to an improvement in the quality of life.

            You need to write fairy tales for children. For money. You are doing well. Especially about the ever-increasing productivity. And about the ever-growing quality of life.
            The quality of life began to improve only under Brezhnev. When they established stable channels for the sale of hydrocarbons abroad. And the prices there were high. And before that, why all of a sudden? As for this, what manna from heaven fell on the USSR? Before that, there was nothing in the USSR. Some important communists and hunger. And their wild cries of an enemy capitalist environment. Like, you have to be patient. Tolerated, because impatient rafts in the Gulag.
            1. onix757
              onix757 4 January 2016 18: 16 New
              +2
              anew
              A lot of text, but essentially empty. You have edrosov, all through one place.
            2. Alf
              Alf 4 January 2016 18: 19 New
              +4
              Quote: anew
              What are you bragging about? That your grandfather’s children were not forced to eat neighbors? Is this a great achievement in itself? Can you brag about this already?

              You do not need to poke, I did not pass geese with you. Did your grandfather's neighbors' children eat? Storyteller. You should go to the Novodvorskaya for a couple in the department of Dr. Himmler.
              1. anew
                anew 4 January 2016 18: 44 New
                -6
                Quote: Alf
                Did your grandfather's neighbors' children eat?

                They didn’t eat neighbors; this was no longer in their time. And the bits of apples for the children of party functionaries were eating up, it was.
                Quote: Alf
                You should go to the Novodvorskaya for a couple in the department of Dr. Himmler.

                Совсем ты "плохой". Заговариваешься.
              2. The comment was deleted.
            3. Andrey VOV
              Andrey VOV 6 January 2016 19: 50 New
              0
              how did you get about hunger ... what region did you live in those years and what did you starve ???
              1. anew
                anew 8 January 2016 00: 33 New
                -1
                Quote: Andrey VOV
                how did you get about hunger ... what region did you live in those years and what did you starve ???

                Relax. And go to grandfather. Find out everything from him. If he already realized that it is possible to tell, he will tell. But he could not yet realize. Then he will tell the standard memorized Soviet agitation. Just in case.
  • spinner
    spinner 3 January 2016 22: 45 New
    11
    I don’t know about pots, but grannies sold knitted socks, scarves, hats, mittens. Nobody planted them. They also quietly sold berries, fruits, vegetables from gardens. Under the current regime of grannies, policemen took away potatoes for trading potatoes.
    1. GSH-18
      GSH-18 4 January 2016 00: 16 New
      -7
      Quote: twister
      I don’t know about pots, but grannies sold knitted socks, scarves, hats, mittens. Nobody planted them. They also quietly sold berries, fruits, vegetables from gardens. Under the current regime of grannies, policemen took away potatoes for trading potatoes.

      By the fact that order should be! But not a spontaneous bazaar on the main street. Nobody forbids them. Go to the market, pay for a place and trade quietly with potatoes, knitted socks, etc. request
  • 33 Watcher
    33 Watcher 4 January 2016 06: 46 New
    +3
    In the EU, too, they don’t stroke the head for violating quotas ... I just hinted, or even suggested repeat I don’t understand what I’ve put forward ..? laughing
  • ZAV69
    ZAV69 4 January 2016 18: 42 New
    +3
    Under Brezhnev, yes, but under Stalin, no. It was full of artels and cooperatives. My grandfather even had a record in labor that he worked in an artel of invalids. Khrushchev destroyed everything, but Brezhnev did not have the mind to revive.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Ahmed
    Ahmed 3 January 2016 22: 16 New
    +1
    Quote: Ami du peuple
    Such forecasts have recently appeared with enviable frequency ...


    Видео с мнением "несогласных" (chur - do not execute the messenger hi )

    1. GSH-18
      GSH-18 4 January 2016 00: 33 New
      +6
      Quote: Ahmed
      Видео с мнением "несогласных" (чур - гонца минусами не казнить hi )

      Magazine-provocateur does not understand (but we can understand, but mows it under a loan) that the process of redeeming US government bonds on their own accumulated pieces of paper is a protective measure. Resetting an unreliable currency to its owner in exchange for government bonds. If something happens with dollars, then you can demand interest payments, for example, in gold. We returned their paper to them, and bought their bonds not for our gold. This is a normal process. So now everyone is doing. And this bitch provokes people using ignorance of global financial mechanisms! am
      1. fif21
        fif21 4 January 2016 09: 02 New
        +5
        Quote: GSH-18
        We returned their paper to them, and bought their bonds not for our gold. This is a normal process.

        Yes! How everything is running! For their pieces of paper we gave the goods (raw materials, grain ..) Could buy from them for these pieces of paper (machines, technologies ..) But we will return them by exchanging some pieces of paper for others (even without a percentage rate of 0%) they say buy on we have something else (we support the Fed and the dollar)
        Quote: GSH-18
        And this bitch provokes people using ignorance of global financial mechanisms!

        And here you are mistaken. We know the mechanisms, but in whose interests this mechanism does not work. As a result, the problems of the US economy are becoming big problems for countries using the dollar as a payment instrument. The conclusion is to sell your product for rubles, and then our ruble will turn into the same product as the dollar! All countries buying Russian goods are FORCED to buy Russian rubles on the MICEX for their currencies. hi
        1. Extraneous
          Extraneous 4 January 2016 15: 34 New
          +1
          Quote: fif21
          Conclusion - sell your product for rubles

          СССР торговал кое-какими товарами за рубли. Проблема была в том, что излишек рублей не обеспеченных торговыми сделками и находящихся в западных банках он вынужден был выкупать за золото. Не слишком эффективно для торговли. Для того,чтобы торговать за рубли в нынешней мировой экономике нужно ввести рубль в "корзину" мировых валют. До этого ещё очень далеко.
          1. fif21
            fif21 4 January 2016 19: 05 New
            0
            Quote: Stranger
            The problem was that he had to redeem the surplus of rubles that were not secured by commercial transactions and held in Western banks for gold.

            What for? Something the Fed does not buy dollars for gold! And why FORCED and by whom or what FORCED ????
          2. fif21
            fif21 4 January 2016 20: 31 New
            0
            Quote: Stranger
            The problem was that he had to redeem the surplus of rubles that were not secured by commercial transactions and held in Western banks for gold.
            There is no problem now! Extra rubles have appeared - sell them on the MICEX currency exchange, we need rubles-buy on the MICEX! Money is the same commodity, and how it does not reach. request
            1. bovig
              bovig 5 January 2016 01: 43 New
              +1
              Quote: fif21
              Quote: Stranger
              The problem was that he had to redeem the surplus of rubles that were not secured by commercial transactions and held in Western banks for gold.
              There is no problem now! Extra rubles have appeared - sell them on the MICEX currency exchange, we need rubles-buy on the MICEX! Money is the same commodity, and how it does not reach. request

              Money is PRODUCT ??? Strange, but I, naive, thought that money is the EQUIVALENT of GOODS!))))
              1. fif21
                fif21 5 January 2016 07: 53 New
                +1
                Quote: bovig
                I, naive, believed that money is the EQUIVALENT of GOODS!))))
                Money from one country can be bought with money from another, and given the fluctuations in the exchange rate, you can make a profit. Is the dollar the equivalent of a product? That's what the whole HSE joke teaches - money is the equivalent of a product, and the dollar has long been torn from the economy and turned into a product, that is, for the whole world there are some rules, but for mattresses there are different ?!
                1. bovig
                  bovig 6 January 2016 19: 11 New
                  0
                  Quote: fif21
                  Quote: bovig
                  I, naive, believed that money is the EQUIVALENT of GOODS!))))
                  Money from one country can be bought with money from another, and given the fluctuations in the exchange rate, you can make a profit. Is the dollar the equivalent of a product? That's what the whole HSE joke teaches - money is the equivalent of a product, and the dollar has long been torn from the economy and turned into a product, that is, for the whole world there are some rules, but for mattresses there are different ?!

                  This is pure fraud!)) Why in its pure form? But because legalized!))
          3. The comment was deleted.
        2. bovig
          bovig 5 January 2016 01: 36 New
          0
          Quote: fif21
          Quote: GSH-18
          We returned their paper to them, and bought their bonds not for our gold. This is a normal process.

          Yes! How everything is running! For their pieces of paper we gave the goods (raw materials, grain ..) Could buy from them for these pieces of paper (machines, technologies ..) But we will return them by exchanging some pieces of paper for others (even without a percentage rate of 0%) they say buy on we have something else (we support the Fed and the dollar)
          Quote: GSH-18
          And this bitch provokes people using ignorance of global financial mechanisms!

          And here you are mistaken. We know the mechanisms, but in whose interests this mechanism does not work. As a result, the problems of the US economy are becoming big problems for countries using the dollar as a payment instrument. The conclusion is to sell your product for rubles, and then our ruble will turn into the same product as the dollar! All countries buying Russian goods are FORCED to buy Russian rubles on the MICEX for their currencies. hi

          The US financial system managed by the Fed has existed for more than a hundred years. The entire world economy is working on this system. In the dashing nineties we felt in our own skin what results a breakdown of the financial system with the subsequent destruction of the economy leads to ... It was within the framework of one country, but what will happen like this all over the world? Who will feel better?)))))
          1. fif21
            fif21 5 January 2016 08: 16 New
            0
            Quote: bovig
            The entire world economy is working on this system.
            Continue to work further on this system, I do not often meet a slave defending the interests of his master. Ah yes amerikosy! You say that the economy of the Russian Federation works in the interests of the United States - this is true. It is also true that great shocks await Russia.
            1. bovig
              bovig 6 January 2016 19: 26 New
              +1
              Quote: fif21
              Quote: bovig
              The entire world economy is working on this system.
              Continue to work further on this system, I do not often meet a slave defending the interests of his master. Ah yes amerikosy! You say that the economy of the Russian Federation works in the interests of the United States - this is true. It is also true that great shocks await Russia.

              The US is its own slave system! Simply, if you are poorly informed in this area, then your conclusions do not sound very reasonable ... As an experiment, the collapse or swoop down the whole structure of the USSR to see how it will look ... Now the next step is the global economy and financial system. .. Yes, Russia is still waiting for great shocks (and when they were not in Russia?), But not only Russia ... The whole world will shake and shake is not childish! Only for Russia it became familiar ... So - do not worry, we will survive!)))
          2. The comment was deleted.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • avva2012
    avva2012 3 January 2016 22: 26 New
    +1
    So maybe the author is not a liberal at all, but under the turbine, he just sees the planned economy?
  • Dyagilev
    Dyagilev 3 January 2016 22: 46 New
    +4
    Rumors are circulating on the Internet that they are going to revive Kudrin, and not a planned economy.
    1. fif21
      fif21 4 January 2016 09: 15 New
      +1
      Quote: Dyagilev
      there are rumors that they are going to revive Kudrin
      Кудрин хороший финансист, и если он будет работать в интересах РФ и рубля то я за.Но ждать от него этого нельзя , Кудрин все сделает в интересах "мировой экономики" то есть в интересах США. Кудрин , Касьянов, Чубайс... сделали столько дел и заработали такую "славу" в РФ ,что и писать не хочется. Ну нету в России второго Столыпина! Нет. hi
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • aksakal
    aksakal 3 January 2016 23: 04 New
    11
    Quote: Ami du peuple
    А для России существует лишь один выход - возрождать плановую экономику и социалистические формы хозяйствования (или, как сейчас некоторые называют, государственный сталинский капитализм smile ). Пусть либеральный патриот ritzmorgen (автор статьи) мечется в поисках некой "турбины" для "рыночной" экономики, но всё уже было придумано до нас и неплохо себя проявило. По-крайней мере, лучше, чем классический капитализм.
    - You can agree with you, but only in the case of strategic and basic industries. That is, the oil, metal, energy generating industries, and all enterprises in this industry should be in state ownership and work according to plan. Profit should not be of interest to these industries at all, it should not make sense to export any of the products of these industries - this is the export of raw materials, we have already passed, we still cannot get rid of it. Therefore, enterprises in these sectors should operate strictly on a planned basis, they should have only two headaches - how to implement the plan and how to fulfill any separate order of the Government.
    For the enterprises of the military-industrial complex, I believe that now, as it is, this is optimal. These are state-owned enterprises, at the same time they are interested in profit, exports of military-industrial complex products should be in good shape to compete with foreign manufacturers in order to keep abreast of trends in the field of armaments and for earning currency. I would here, in the field of work on the principle of the work of defense industry enterprises, add machine tools (after measures to revive it).
    Multistructure, but with the support of the government should be in agriculture.
    In other sectors, there is multi-structure and resolution of private initiative. In the sense, the leading enterprises in each industry must again be in state ownership and on a planned basis, at the same time they are forced to compete with an enterprise of a different form of ownership.
    Не хочется давиться в очереди за колбасой, не хочется топать в магазин за хлебом за пять кварталов - ибо в СССР магазины располагали в расчете на сколько-то тысяч людей, а это значит - идти совсем не близко. То же самое по парикмахерским - в итоге много часов торчишь в очереди. Напомню - когда предприятия не интересует прибыль, они могут по заданию правительства разработать систему мобильной связи ("Алтай", например), то бишь выполнить план или отдельное поручение правительства, и ПРОИГНОРИРОВАТЬ спрос со стороны населения, которое было бы не прочь установить этот "Алтай" в свою "копейку", "Москвич" или в "Волгу-24" заплатить за это свою кровные, честно заработанные. Напомню - в СССР так и произошло. СССР первый разработал систему мобильной связи (почитайте мемуары Зимина), но сейчас либерасты попрекают в спорах нас именно так: "ага, сказал совок, пользуясь амерскоим телефоном "Моторола2". Тут варианты - пользуясь амерским компом, интернетом и т.д. Самое обидное - во всем перечисленном в СССР НЕ ОТСТАВАЛИ, а просто секретили как стратегические разработки, полагая, что народу это все даром не нужно. А вот тут вопрос - вам нравится, когда за вас определяют, что вам нужно и что нет? Когда вдруг решают, что вашему боссу "Алтай" положен, а вы как-то с двушкой по неработающим автоматам побегаете - перетопчетесь? Если вам нравится такое - идите туда с единомышленниками, а я вот пойду в общество, где я сам мог бы решить, нужна мне та или иная новинка или не нужна. Так что как нам дальше жить - еще долго спорить. Мои предложения тоже весьма спорные.
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 3 January 2016 23: 31 New
      +6
      So it’s like that, of course I don’t feel like it, again in the USSR the beginning of the 80's.
      But, under I.V. To Stalin, it always struck me that it was like the Soviet collective farmers who managed to build their own money, planes or tanks? Do we all know what economy was then, and especially what it would be if not for the Second World War?
      1. MrK
        MrK 4 January 2016 00: 22 New
        +4
        Quote: avva2012
        Do we all know what economy was then, and especially what it would be if not for the Second World War?


        Читайте Катасонова - "Сталинская экономика" и Курляндчика "Проклятая советская власть"... они все с цифрами и фактами описали.
    2. 34 region
      34 region 4 January 2016 02: 57 New
      +4
      Aksakal! It seems to be right. But! Some tried to cut the window, while others opened the iron curtain. The window was cut through, the curtain was lifted. So what? Are our partners very fond of us? They tried to ruin us in the 14th and in the 41st. In the 90s succeeded. Mobile network and Internet, greatly break the foundations of the state? Or is it a stick? In the USA it’s a good use (self-made). The USSR did not understand this. The USSR went through two wars. US not one. The rise of the economy of Europe and Japan is a counterweight to the USSR. The USSR was gone and economies began to be strangled. Afghanistan, Yugoslavia, Iraq, Libya is the result of strangulation. But in Iraq or Libya today there is an Internet and foreign cars! Is it good or bad?
    3. Iskander69
      Iskander69 4 January 2016 09: 27 New
      +2
      " вам нравится, когда за вас определяют, что вам нужно и что нет? Когда вдруг решают, что вашему боссу "Алтай" положен, а вы как-то с двушкой по неработающим автоматам побегаете - перетопчетесь?, ... , а я вот пойду в общество, где я сам мог бы решить, нужна мне та или иная новинка или не нужна." Где было по другому? Связь, интернет- все это военные разработки, и пустили в гражданское обращение не сразу. Путаете и подменяете понятия.
  • Gorynovich
    Gorynovich 3 January 2016 23: 26 New
    11
    Quote: Ami du peuple
    But for Russia there is only one way out - to revive the planned economy and socialist forms of management (or, as some now call it, state Stalinist capitalism).

    Выход для России - это строить общество здравого смысла. Без капитализма, социализма и прочих "-измов".
    The same insanity, both scribbling consumer goods at state-owned enterprises, and sculpt rockets in private shops.
    Рыночную составляющую тоже нельзя игнорировать. "Невидимая рука рынка" умеет хорошо шарить в наших карманах, но и, одновременно, является хорошим саморегулятором там, где глупо регулировать плановыми методами.
    1. aksakal
      aksakal 3 January 2016 23: 32 New
      +7
      Quote: Gorynovich
      The same insanity, both scribbling consumer goods at state-owned enterprises, and sculpt rockets in private shops.
      - well said! good Although one private shop managed (sorry, not ours!) Managed to mold a rocket with a return first stage sad Note - a private shop.
      1. Gorynovich
        Gorynovich 3 January 2016 23: 46 New
        +3
        Quote: aksakal
        Although one private shop managed (sorry, not ours!) Managed to dazzle a rocket with a return first stage Note - a private shop.

        There is such a thing. But...
        Any noticeable breakthroughs at the national level are realized within the framework of planning and an authoritarian management system - examples of darkness. It is enough to recall the US withdrawal from the Great Depression, industrialization in the USSR, South Korea, Singapore or China itself.
        A private shop is always more efficient where it is necessary to do it quickly, beautifully, at the lowest cost and without regard to long-term state interests - a medical fact.
        And when you need to sculpt something costly, strategically necessary and with a long payback period, the toad will strangle a private owner. With rare exceptions.
        Пример с "возвращалкой" - это скорее энтузиазм частных фанатов себе в удовольствие.
        1. anew
          anew 4 January 2016 00: 02 New
          +1
          Quote: Gorynovich
          Any significant breakthroughs at the national level are implemented as part of the planning and authoritarian management system.

          Yes? What about the fact that any forced labor is inefficient? And any authoritarianism is just unproductive labor. It is one thing when there are millions of low-productivity individuals. In total, the result will still be obtained. And when are they gone? How to be such states?
          Quote: Gorynovich
          A private shop is always more efficient where it is necessary to do it quickly, beautifully, at the lowest cost and without regard to long-term state interests - a medical fact.

          That's it, you have an understanding of private capital at the level of a small shop. You absolutely do not understand the role and place of private capital in modern society.
          Quote: Gorynovich
          Пример с "возвращалкой" - это скорее энтузиазм частных фанатов себе в удовольствие.

          "Возвращалки", это феноменально удачный и прибыльный бизнес-проект. Судя по цифрам себестоимости, в недалеком будущем все коммерческие космические старты будут их. Вот вам один из примеров работы свободного частного капитала.
          1. Gorynovich
            Gorynovich 4 January 2016 00: 54 New
            +3
            Quote: anew
            Yes? What about the fact that any forced labor is inefficient? And any authoritarianism is just unproductive labor.

            Tell it to the spirits of F.D. Roosevelt, Beria with his sharashka and atomic project, or Lee Kuan Yu.
            Quote: anew
            That's it, you have an understanding of private capital at the level of a small shop.

            Not at all. Profile education (even liberal wink ) prevents thinking in terms of a small shop.
            Quote: anew
            You absolutely do not understand the role and place of private capital in modern society.

            By. I understand myself adequately.
            Private capital is an effective driver of the progressive development of the economy in non-turbulent conditions. And an even more effective tool for redistributing surplus value. By the way, it is far from always in favor of more reasonable, responsible and patriotic members of society.
            In breakthrough areas and at critical moments, this very private capital should not be a self-sufficient quantity, but only one of the instruments in a strict state bridle.
            1. anew
              anew 4 January 2016 01: 20 New
              -2
              Quote: Gorynovich
              Tell it to the spirits of Beria with its rams and atomic design

              And what, there was mainly high-productivity labor? No, there is no doubt, a couple of people worked very productively. And far from free. But the rest was not concerned.
              Quote: Gorynovich
              Profile education (even a liberal liberal wink) makes it difficult to think in terms of a small shop.

              Оно и видно. Какое оно, ваше "либеральное профильное образование".
              Quote: Gorynovich
              it is an effective driver of the progressive development of the economy in non-turbulent conditions.

              This is precisely the main task of the state administration in a bourgeois state is to create these non-turbulent conditions.
              Quote: Gorynovich
              In breakthrough areas and at critical moments, this very private capital should not be a self-sufficient quantity, but only one of the instruments in a strict state bridle.

              Ну, понятно. Сказывается эффект "либерального профильного образования".
              Это кто такой "государство"? Это что за существо такое мифическое и жутко умное? Это что, семиглавый восьмих*й?
              No, this is your former neighbor Vasya. Which, just like you, wants to eat and drink sweetly. And the sweeter the better. Why did you suddenly decide that this same Vasya not will he manage his money better than your other businessman neighbor Petya? Why do you think Petya needs to take his own earned money, not all, but the more, the better, and give it to Vasya? And he will manage them wisely. Are you sure wisely? Why is Vasya with a spoon better for you than Petya with a bipod?
              Учение о том, как все отнять и поделить называется марксизм-ленинизм. Его адепты (сектанты) свято верят в то, что если все у всех, вплоть до выходных штанов, отнять и отдать мифическому "государству" (т.е. поделить между иерархами псевдорелигии марскизм-ленинизм), то на земле наступит царствие небесное. По-ихнему это называется коммунизм. Не уподобляйтесь им. Фанатизм лишил их здравомыслия.
              1. EvgNik
                EvgNik 4 January 2016 06: 45 New
                10
                Quote: anew
                No, this is your former neighbor Vasya. Which, just like you, wants to eat and drink sweetly. And the sweeter the better. Why did you suddenly decide that this same Vasya will not manage his money better than your other businessman-neighbor Petya yours? Why do you think Petya needs to take his own earned money, not all, but the more, the better, and give it to Vasya? And he will manage them wisely. Are you sure wisely? Why is Vasya with a spoon better for you than Petya with a bipod?

                Specific example. In our city, businessman Petya has successfully integrated himself into the bus transportation business. Finished his minibuses to emergency condition, sold them. Managed to become a deputy. He sold a transportation tender for his follower with dead cars. Behind all these perturbations, the state-owned ATP enterprise successfully bent. And last year (since the cars are old and constantly breaking down), the traffic schedule was not respected. And someone wants to say that private traders work better? No shit. All that interests them is income. No wonder 15 people are crammed into a small car for 17-25 seats. And then you need to go.
                1. saturn.mmm
                  saturn.mmm 4 January 2016 12: 20 New
                  +1
                  Quote: EvgNik
                  Behind all these perturbations, the state-owned ATP enterprise successfully bent.

                  In this story, the most interesting thing is why the ATP was bent, according to your story, it should be an effective enterprise with new buses and following the schedule, as their finished cars squeezed poorly serving passengers from the market?
                  Some kind of paradox.
                  1. Nikolay K
                    Nikolay K 4 January 2016 18: 42 New
                    0
                    What paradox is there? All such businessmen of Petit are the proteges of the mayor or governor, or simply put where they should, so as not to let competitors. Therefore, it makes sense for them to carry people in new minibuses and follow the schedule if people are already hawking. Moreover, now the price of transport is a political issue, if you raise it a little, the electorate is starting to resent. So they ride people on the old junk, so that the people keep quiet and the mayor falls into his pocket.
                  2. The comment was deleted.
              2. Gorynovich
                Gorynovich 4 January 2016 07: 58 New
                0
                Quote: anew
                And what, there was mainly high-productivity labor? No, there is no doubt, a couple of people worked very productively. And far from free. But the rest was not concerned.

                В т.н. "шарашках" и прочих "подневольных КБ"?
                Не смешите мои тапки))) Атомный, ракетный, авиа, артеллерийский, энергетический, танковый и прочие проекты тянули ну никак не по "паре-тройке" избранных сытых. Там счёт шёл совсем на other orders.
                Did not know until now? Google to help you)
                Quote: anew
                Оно и видно. Какое оно, ваше "либеральное профильное образование".

                Quote: anew
                Ну, понятно. Сказывается эффект "либерального профильного образования".

                MIU (GUU) named after S. Ordzhonikidze. Much more liberal - at that time, consider it an analogue of the current HSE.
                By the way, I consider Academician P.G. Bunich, the primary liberal, if that) to be my teacher on the economic mechanism
                A year ago, in 1985, the teacher of the political economy of socialism, I remember, squealed from the department that I was an anti-Soviet, which I reasonably asked her not to slander, because I'm just an anti-communist)
                So my views, as they were, remain quite liberal, but without the admixture of liberalism and without blinders before our eyes.
                Quote: anew
                Это кто такой "государство"? Это что за существо такое мифическое и жутко умное?

                Зачем же передёргивать? Вовсе даже не мифическое и далеко не всегда жутко умное. Иногда, даже идиотское, насквозь продажное, паскудное и предательское, если Вы подразумеваете под понятием "государство" исключительно персоналии чиновников, систему и практику управления.
                You don’t have to go far for an example - look back at the Yeltsin RF.
                Quote: anew
                Учение о том, как все отнять и поделить называется марксизм-ленинизм. Его адепты (сектанты) свято верят в то, что если все у всех, вплоть до выходных штанов, отнять и отдать мифическому "государству" (т.е. поделить между иерархами псевдорелигии марскизм-ленинизм), то на земле наступит царствие небесное. По-ихнему это называется коммунизм. Не уподобляйтесь им. Фанатизм лишил их здравомыслия.

                I have not heard much stupidity for a long time. To call a Marxist-Leninist a man who sincerely considers Lenin most effective the enemy of Russia in all its centuries-old history ...)))
                Sur.
                And on the account of the rest: do not engage in sophistry wink Moreover, it doesn’t work out very well.
              3. Iskander69
                Iskander69 4 January 2016 09: 37 New
                +3
                The doctrine of how to take everything away and share is called banditry. Marxism-Leninism is about exploitation, exploited, and exploiting. And all
                1. anew
                  anew 8 January 2016 00: 38 New
                  0
                  Quote: Iskander69
                  Marxism-Leninism is about exploitation, exploited, and exploiting.

                  Про эксплуатацию марксизм. А марксизм-ленинизм как раз про отнять и поделить между своими. Т.е. "старыми большевиками".
                  Quote: Iskander69
                  The doctrine of how to take everything away and share is called banditry.

                  Well, whatever you want, so call Marxism-Leninism.
              4. aksakal
                aksakal 4 January 2016 09: 48 New
                10
                Quote: anew
                Это кто такой "государство"? Это что за существо такое мифическое и жутко умное? Это что, семиглавый восьмих*й?

                - in fact, the state is a coercive apparatus. I clarify here - speaking of state property, we mean public ownership of the means of production. And by the way, what would you know, only this mythical, terribly smart and seven-headed one is capable of supporting fundamental science, only it is capable of supporting long-term and capital-intensive R&D until a victorious result, only it is able to distribute the result of labor in society relatively fairly, because only to him this very obtained result (income, profit) DOES NOT LIKE - his other chips are interested in the end. You know and often hear - yes, the private trader, due to enthusiasm and lightness, will start unbelievably something terribly interesting (in the field of R&D, technology, or something else), but stumbled upon the fact that the victory will be not easy and quick, it starts to yell that there is only state support - otherwise nothing. And this is the TRUTH, in many cases only the state and is able to master the necessary. So really calm down, repeating what you have been zombified all these years. Especially the Americans tried laughing У самих самые лучшие заказы для частника у кого? У государства. Дарпа за чей счет существует? В кризисе 2007-2008 года какие меры по тушению пожара применялись? Те ли самые, которые они другим советуют или вполне себе "совковые" методы?
                Yes, and by the way, the fact that a private shop managed to make a breakthrough in the return of the first stage does not mean at all that in the future it will not need help from the state. And it will be given to this shop from the one whom you perplexingly call the seven-headed eight of something there.

                And the most important thing. The Russian military-industrial complex, which consists mainly of state-owned enterprises, consumes almost 15 times less Amer’s military-industrial complex, consisting of private traders! And the results of research and development and in general the results of the military industrial complex do not differ 15 times. There are time delays, a 5th generation aircraft was later developed, our maximum size chip is bigger ... It doesn’t pull at a critical lag, it doesn’t even pull at a lag 1,5 times. So, 1,2 times. And taking into account the fact that in some sectors (tank building, air defense systems), we managed to make breakthroughs and move forward, we can say - in general, there is no lag! But the budget is less than 15 times! This is the difference between public and private shops.
                DO NOT SURE!
            2. 34 region
              34 region 4 January 2016 03: 28 New
              10
              ??? Private capital is an effective driver of the progressive development of the economy! Well, and how has this mover strengthened the Russian economy since the 90s? Do we grow 300% a year? We have such construction, well, such construction that there are already not enough posts for posting job advertisements !? We already work for 4 hours? Is it just that we have enough time to live well? 5 days a week for 4 hours a day! Here we have the achievements! And all this thanks to private business! Thank you enlightened! And we didn’t know !!!
              1. anew
                anew 8 January 2016 00: 46 New
                0
                Quote: Region 34
                Active capital is an effective driver of the progressive development of the economy! Well, and how has this mover strengthened the Russian economy since the 90s?

                If you don’t understand the difference between economic categories, don’t worry. Private capital is a necessary but not sufficient condition for the emergence and development of bourgeois (capitalist) society.
                Quote: Region 34
                And all this thanks to private business! Thank you enlightened! And we didn’t know !!!

                Да, вы много чего не знаете. Вот ведь лавочников "частным бизнесом" называете. А лавочники, они даже в рабовладельческом обществе имеются. И уж тем более в феодальном.
                Learn the basics of economics, you are our exposer. And then convict that which is not.
        2. asiat_61
          asiat_61 4 January 2016 06: 23 New
          +5
          Question: What shisha did they create this rocket? Everything rests on shishy.
      2. poquello
        poquello 4 January 2016 00: 09 New
        +5
        Quote: aksakal
        Quote: Gorynovich
        The same insanity, both scribbling consumer goods at state-owned enterprises, and sculpt rockets in private shops.
        - well said! good Although one private shop managed (sorry, not ours!) Managed to mold a rocket with a return first stage sad Note - a private shop.

        ue
        The history of SpaceX would not be a success story if it were not for the unprecedented support of the US authorities - as large as if the state itself was the owner of the company. To $ 200–250 million from the creators at the stage of the company’s formation (2002–2006), the authorities added another $ 500–700 million, representing assistance as payment for future Falcon rocket flights.

        http://slon.ru/business/spacex_gazprom_po_amerikanski-1044958.xhtml
      3. Wheel
        Wheel 4 January 2016 00: 47 New
        +9
        Quote: aksakal
        Although one private shop managed (sorry, not ours!) Managed to dazzle a rocket with a return first stage Note - a private shop.
        Note on government money through NASA.
        All relish in how to present everything.
      4. yuriy55
        yuriy55 4 January 2016 05: 20 New
        +4
        Quote: aksakal
        Quote: Gorynovich
        The same insanity, both scribbling consumer goods at state-owned enterprises, and sculpt rockets in private shops.
        - well said! good Although one private shop managed (sorry, not ours!) Managed to mold a rocket with a return first stage sad Note - a private shop.


        You especially about NASA's private shop people do not deceive. The office for which the vice president is responsible? How interesting is it to have formed start-up capital, where do all private traders start? The Western world, planted on a dollar, stubbornly and persistently invested real goods and gold in paper, and the proceeds thus obtained were allowed into NASA's development?

        In private, space flights were carried out by the heroes of science fiction writers and the most truthful person in the world, Baron Munchausen, though at the core ... laughing
  • sergeybulkin
    sergeybulkin 4 January 2016 00: 24 New
    +4
    А для России существует лишь один выход - возрождать плановую экономику и социалистические формы хозяйствования (или, как сейчас некоторые называют, государственный сталинский капитализм smile ). Пусть либеральный патриот ritzmorgen (автор статьи) мечется в поисках некой "турбины" для "рыночной" экономики, но всё уже было придумано до нас и неплохо себя проявило. По-крайней мере, лучше, чем классический капитализм.

    Капитализм изначально провальная система, так как подразумевает некий управляемый экономический хаос, регулировать рыночные отношения при кап. строе очень сложно, требуется огромное количество разных контролирующих органов, что порождает мощную коррупционную систему где за взятки можно абсолютно всё. Единственно нормальная система экономики это "плановая" где государство жёстко регулирует всё, от уровня зарплат, до цен на всё и вся, само собой этим должны заниматься специалисты, а не партийные работники, как это было раньше . Иначе - дикий рынок где каждый сам себе устанавливает правила. Бардак как было у нас в 90е, да и сейчас ещё не всё устаканилось.
    1. 34 region
      34 region 4 January 2016 03: 36 New
      +2
      The fact that capitalism is a failed system became clear back in the 30s. The growth rate of the Union was higher than the rate of capitalism. If capitalism scolds socialism today, then socialism is much more effective!
      1. fif21
        fif21 4 January 2016 09: 29 New
        +4
        Quote: Region 34
        If capitalism scolds socialism today, then socialism is much more effective!
        И пример этому Китай! Оставили партийную "болталогию", дисциплину, карательную систему и разрешили частную собственность и страна расцвела. А что расцвело в РФ- Коррупция , бандитизм, воровство . Экономика- сырьевой придаток запада и востока и кого за это благодарить?
        1. anew
          anew 4 January 2016 11: 48 New
          -3
          Quote: fif21
          And an example of this is China!

          In fact, socialism in China does not even smell in the bushes. China is in the initial phase of an ordinary bourgeois society. Authoritarian. Democracy will come later, much later. Before it, people still need to be cherished.
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. anew
        anew 4 January 2016 11: 42 New
        -2
        Quote: Region 34
        Union growth rates were higher than capitalism

        Вы вообще как себя чувствуете? Что же он так активно доразвивался, что дошел до талонов на крупу и сахар? И до "табачных бунтов"?
      4. saturn.mmm
        saturn.mmm 4 January 2016 12: 30 New
        +1
        Quote: Region 34
        The growth rate of the Union was higher than the rate of capitalism. If capitalism scolds socialism today, then socialism is much more effective!

        Developing, socialism eventually evolved into capitalism (the wild market), as happened in the history of the USSR.
        1. anew
          anew 4 January 2016 12: 56 New
          -1
          Quote: saturn.mmm
          socialism eventually evolved into capitalism (wild market)

          Yes? In which country? And when did the revolution happen? After all, the transition of their stage of pseudo-religious feudalism (i.e., from so-called socialism) to capitalism (from one OEF to another) is impossible without revolution.
          But the transformation of pseudo-religious feudalism (socialism) into wild feudalism (let's call it pseudo-liberal) is quite possible without a revolution. Enough coup in power.
    2. BARKHAN
      BARKHAN 4 January 2016 18: 51 New
      +6
      Quote: sergeybulkin
      Капитализм изначально провальная система, так как подразумевает некий управляемый экономический хаос, регулировать рыночные отношения при кап. строе очень сложно, требуется огромное количество разных контролирующих органов, что порождает мощную коррупционную систему где за взятки можно абсолютно всё. Единственно нормальная система экономики это "плановая" где государство жёстко регулирует всё, от уровня зарплат, до цен на всё и вся, само собой этим должны заниматься специалисты, а не партийные работники, как это было раньше . Иначе - дикий рынок где каждый сам себе устанавливает правила. Бардак как было у нас в 90е, да и сейчас ещё не всё устаканилось




      Если бы про капитализм нам впаривали бы в 90-х ,то ещё можно было бы по не знанию поверить...Но проварившись в этой каше 25 лет,кое какие выводы всё же на ум приходят...Девиз капитализма -"Кто кого может ,тот того и гложет!".Капитализм в России -это "Угрюм река" в масштабах государства.Лицо капитализма-зажравшиеся воры,потерявшие нюх от вседозволенности.Капиталист России ,за небольшим исключением ,паразит-спекулянт.Каждого капиталиста в России по закону можно спокойно посадить ,потому,что он-ВОР!
      The next step of Russian capitalism is oligarch-feudalism.
      Sooner or later, capitalism will lead the country to war, because war is the highest level of profitability and profitability ... And the more money a capitalist has, the easier it is to cross morality.
  • BMP-2
    BMP-2 4 January 2016 00: 36 New
    10
    Метафора про "западное капиталистическое сердце" выбрана явно неудачно. Сердца там давно уже нет. Гораздо более удачное сравнение - капиталистический желудок, ну или ещё точнее - капиталичтический кишечник. Тогда всё описанное в статье легко описывается как нарушение перистальтики, наступившее в результате периодического чередования приёма слабительных и закрепляющих средств! laughing
  • Weyland
    Weyland 4 January 2016 00: 53 New
    +2
    Quote: Ami du peuple
    If the Americans both times emerged from global confusion as the main beneficiaries, then why not try a third?


    Because in the days of WWII and WWII there were no ballistic missiles. And now - hell they sit in the ocean! am
    1. 34 region
      34 region 4 January 2016 03: 39 New
      +2
      Just do not grind about nuclear weapons and ballistic missiles! All this was in the USSR. But the USSR was gone. And nuclear weapons didn't help at all! How to explain this? Can you
      1. Koshak
        Koshak 4 January 2016 07: 08 New
        +3
        От предателей "наверху" ракеты и ЯО не помогут
      2. Just BB
        Just BB 5 January 2016 07: 57 New
        0
        We believed that in our country the revolution finally defeated the counter-revolution in the first quarter of the 20th century. We took up the revolutionary transformations of the economy, education, science, culture. We discovered socialism in Europe. And almost all of it was destroyed. Does this mean that our revolution was worthless?

        IN AND. Lenin: Every revolution is only worth something if it can defend itself



        More details: http://comstol.info/2011/11/politika/2637


        Curious selection
        1. anew
          anew 5 January 2016 10: 53 New
          0
          Quote: Just BB
          Curious selection

          Well yes. Burry liar Ulyanov.
          He is a revolutionary. He slept through the revolution in Russia in Europe. But he managed to make a counter-revolutionary restoration coup in January 1918. Those. the Bolsheviks are not revolutionaries at all, but precisely counter-revolutionaries.
          In the USSR, everything was like that. Black was called white and vice versa. Kingdom of Crooked Mirrors. It existed until they were allowed to say the obvious, i.e. that the king is naked.
          1. Just BB
            Just BB 5 January 2016 17: 55 New
            0
            То как Вы выражаетесь не делает Вам чести, наоборот показывает вашу ... невоспитанность... (так будет "помягше")
            O. Bismarck also said that geniuses are preparing a revolution, making fanatics, and crooks are using its results.


            And what and how it was in the USSR .... hi "я уже в ту пору полком командовал"- говорил мой друг
    2. fif21
      fif21 4 January 2016 09: 38 New
      +1
      Quote: Weyland
      And now - hell they sit in the ocean!
      Сидят спокойненько ,только ближний и средний восток , Украину, Россию, Европу так колбасит, что "мама не горюй". А на прямой конфликт они не пойдут! Зачем? Когда есть Турция , ИГ, Украина ,Грузия, Афганистан... вот эти и будут дохнуть ,за процветание Дяди Сэма yes
      1. Wheel
        Wheel 4 January 2016 20: 09 New
        +2
        Quote: fif21
        Украину, Россию, Европу так колбасит, что "мама не горюй". А на прямой конфликт они не пойдут! Зачем? Когда есть Турция , ИГ, Украина ,Грузия, Афганистан... вот эти и будут дохнуть ,за процветание Дяди Сэма
        However, voices are already heard from Omerigi that Europa sat up and it was time for her to fight ... for the good ...
    3. The comment was deleted.
  • Douel
    Douel 4 January 2016 01: 42 New
    +3
    С Америкой немного все просто. Сейчас ФША будут высасывать деньги из всех своих "союзников" и "партнеров", за счет этого высасывания будут держаться. А потом очередная мировая заварушка, чем, в принципе они и занимаются. Вспомнить хотя б сколько раз в этом году мы были на грани очередного безумия со стороны Обамы если бы не волевое решение нашего Президента.

    I apologize for the comparison, but in the 90s so much money if someone owed to the creditor, then survived someone one of this couple, or the debtor or creditor.
    1. 34 region
      34 region 4 January 2016 03: 42 New
      +2
      There is another way. Ruin the neighbors and give them a loan. Recipe checked repeatedly. Iraq and Ukraine will be eternal debtors!
  • EvgNik
    EvgNik 4 January 2016 05: 40 New
    0
    Quote: Ami du peuple
    But for Russia there is only one way out - to revive the planned economy and socialist forms of management (or, as some now call it, state Stalinist capitalism

    This is the turbine that the author writes about.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Al_oriso
    Al_oriso 4 January 2016 07: 10 New
    0
    The described market mechanism we went through in school. New - loans with negative interest rates. If such lending begins, then one can only guess about the consequences (chaos, poverty, crime ...)
  • kingnothing
    kingnothing 4 January 2016 08: 15 New
    0
    What happened once - may not happen again, what happened twice - happen again in the third.
  • valokordin
    valokordin 4 January 2016 08: 33 New
    +3
    Quote: Ami du peuple
    Пусть либеральный патриот ritzmorgen (автор статьи) мечется в поисках некой "турбины" для "рыночной" экономики, но всё уже было придумано до нас и неплохо себя проявило. По-крайней мере, лучше, чем классический капитализм.

    And this is True, and it takes care of the heart of our enemy. It is a pity that the president and the government do not listen to you and remain faithful to the predatory mode of production. There will never be peace between labor and capital.
  • Maj.
    Maj. 4 January 2016 09: 30 New
    +2
    this is the case when wishful thinking is given out. And it’s time for us to think hard and talk less and do more. Otherwise, we’ll fly away like that shop.
  • Archon
    Archon 4 January 2016 16: 40 New
    +4
    well, or at least partially planned economy. In vitally important areas for the country - a planned economy, and for consumer consumption - a market economy. Otherwise, there will again be either a shortage or disgusting things.
  • Nick
    Nick 5 January 2016 11: 13 New
    0
    Quote: Ami du peuple
    But for Russia there is only one way out - to revive the planned economy and socialist forms of management (or, as some now call it, state Stalinist capitalism).

    No need to attribute to Stalin what he did not create. Stalin did not create state capitalism. I.V. Stalin was well aware that capitalism, in any form, was a way back, and even more so state capitalism, essentially super-monopolized capitalism. More V.I. Lenin noted in his economic studies the features of monopolies leading to stagnation and decay.
    Under Stalin, a multi-layered, planned-market economy was created in which the basic industries and infrastructure belonged to the state. At the same time, in industry and agriculture, in the service sector and in science, there were non-state enterprises and artisanal production, focused primarily on satisfying the consumer demand of the population and focusing on market demand. Such non-state enterprises were sometimes involved in fulfilling government orders, but always on the basis of the commercial interest of enterprises.
    Государственный капитализм "изобрел" Н.С. Хрущев. Огосударствив все сектора экономики, он добился тотального дефицита потребительских товаров и услуг, дефицита продовольственных товаров. По большому счету именно государственно-монополистический капитализм, и монополия номенклатуры на власть и привели к краху СССР.
    1. anew
      anew 5 January 2016 11: 39 New
      -1
      Quote: Nick
      Under Stalin, a multifaceted planned market economy was created.

      Your arguments in the field of economics resemble the delirium of the mechanic-intellectual V.Polesov in the field of technology.
      Do not want to be laughed at you, do not write nonsense. He saw capitalism somewhere in Russia. He is still gone, but what then can be said about the times of the Bolsheviks?
      А уж бред о "сталинской многоукладности в экономике", это вообще ни в какие ворота. Просто откровенная, наглая и циничная ложь.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  • vovanpain
    vovanpain 3 January 2016 21: 39 New
    14
    Yes, did we go through all this in capitalist Russia, one hyperinflation according to IMF prescriptions, what did it cost in the early 90s and is this a recipe? Better kill right away.
    1. Zoldat_A
      Zoldat_A 3 January 2016 22: 38 New
      +8
      Quote: vovanpain
      Yes, we went through all this in capitalist Russia, one hyperinflation according to IMF prescriptions, what was it worth at the beginning of the 90's and is this a recipe?Better kill right away.

      But they didn’t succeed and kill us. We will still live and spit on the Fed’s grave ...

      Если только опять не найдётся руководитель, с позволения сказать, который пять сотен американских "инструкторов" опять запустит в Кремль, чтобы по их указке добивать страну. Надеюсь, что такого не найдётся... На мой век и ВВП хватит, а дальше внуку скажу - ещё один ЕБН - бери в руки автомат. Кто угодно, лишь бы не такой, как ЕБН, любой ценой...
      1. Nikolay K
        Nikolay K 3 January 2016 23: 02 New
        +5
        And what do Medvedev do for us? We ourselves with a mustache, and without any foreign consultants, will ruin the economy until everything works out perfectly.
        1. 34 region
          34 region 4 January 2016 03: 45 New
          +3
          And what about Medvedev? Medvedev is a bad cop, and Putin is a good cop? And then who is their boss?
  • Awaz
    Awaz 3 January 2016 21: 49 New
    +5
    felling the United States is not beneficial to anyone. Everyone understands that you can’t live like that, but you don’t do it, everyone suffers and supports the dollar.
    Unfortunately, there is no other system that would poorly self-organize poorly ..
  • vlad66
    vlad66 3 January 2016 21: 54 New
    17
    economists will be able to come up with a similar "turbine" for the planetary financial system

    Хм вообще то когда то в Советском Союзе уже была такая "турбина",так разломали,заместо того что бы улучшить.Ну звезднополосатых торговцев яблоками рановато хоронить,вон они как вассалов сейчас грабят.
  • arane
    arane 3 January 2016 21: 55 New
    17
    Quote: poquello
    Well, yes, I read that the United States has remained a couple of years, and the world is racking its brains how to get out


    I’m happy to eat an apple on the economic ruins of the United States (although it will fall to us), just for 15 years they promise that now, literally this year ....
    1. poquello
      poquello 3 January 2016 22: 21 New
      +2
      Quote: arane
      Quote: poquello
      Well, yes, I read that the United States has remained a couple of years, and the world is racking its brains how to get out


      I’m happy to eat an apple on the economic ruins of the United States (although it will fall to us), just for 15 years they promise that now, literally this year ....

      But back to the forecasts of Mark O'Byrne. He argues that Putin is preparing for a “perfect economic storm” that arose several years ago in the bowels of the Fed. “Russia sees the yellow metal as a factor in state stability,” writes GoldCore research director. “Putin considers gold bullion to be a 100% guarantee against legal and political risks in the new conditions ... And the Chinese comrades informed the Russian leader about it in their ears.”

      http://cassad.net/politika/geopolitika/22811-kitay-i-rossiya-udaryat-po-dollaru-
      zolotom.html
      1. arane
        arane 3 January 2016 22: 43 New
        +3
        Quote: poquello
        Quote: arane
        Quote: poquello
        Well, yes, I read that the United States has remained a couple of years, and the world is racking its brains how to get out


        I’m happy to eat an apple on the economic ruins of the United States (although it will fall to us), just for 15 years they promise that now, literally this year ....

        But back to the forecasts of Mark O'Byrne. He argues that Putin is preparing for a “perfect economic storm” that arose several years ago in the bowels of the Fed. “Russia sees the yellow metal as a factor in state stability,” writes GoldCore research director. “Putin considers gold bullion to be a 100% guarantee against legal and political risks in the new conditions ... And the Chinese comrades informed the Russian leader about it in their ears.”

        http://cassad.net/politika/geopolitika/22811-kitay-i-rossiya-udaryat-po-dollaru-

        zolotom.html


        I read it. And not only Russia, but also China is massively buying up gold. Waiting for .....
        There is one surefire way for the United States to get away from economic collapse - this is the third world war, in which they, as always, will remain on the sidelines.
        Will they go for it - yes it’s not even a question!
        1. poquello
          poquello 3 January 2016 23: 41 New
          0
          maybe cats practice
          Saudi Arabian Foreign Minister Adele al-Jubair announced the termination of diplomatic relations between the kingdom and Iran, Reuters reported on Sunday.

          RIA Novosti http://ria.ru/world/20160103/1354107146.html#ixzz3wDS9riTu
        2. the villain
          the villain 3 January 2016 23: 57 New
          +5
          Quote: arane
          There is one surefire way for the United States to get away from economic collapse - this is the third world war, in which they, as always, will remain on the sidelines.
          Will they go for it

          ИМХО, не уверен. Это лет 75 - 100 тому назад их за лужей достать проблемно было, а сейчас, начни они глобальную заваруху, кто - нибудь может и валенок на пульт уронить случайно, ну, или "цяй" пролить wassat. It is one thing when they alone on a ball could turn a strange house into a radioactive ashes, but only now they can multiply them by themselves for such tricks. A puddle is no longer a defense.
          P. S. Своё мнение основываю на том, что 3я МИРОВАЯ без " ядрёнбатона" не обойдётся. hi
          1. 34 region
            34 region 4 January 2016 03: 52 New
            0
            We got already a long loaf! Ukraine and without a kernel disabled, the Middle East, too. The USSR was the first victim without a core.
    2. Sling cutter
      Sling cutter 3 January 2016 23: 18 New
      +8
      Quote: arane
      I’m happy to eat an apple on the economic ruins of the United States (although it will fall to us), I’ve just been promised for about 15 years that this year, literally this year ..

      We send 150-170 lard raccoons to these economic apples over the hill annually, and this is only according to official data.
    3. aksakal
      aksakal 3 January 2016 23: 29 New
      10
      Quote: arane
      I’m happy to eat an apple on the economic ruins of the United States (although it will fall to us), just for 15 years they promise that now, literally this year ....
      - you have more faith in these nonsense. This agony can last a long time, or it can take place instantly - here no one can accurately predict. According to Khazin, grants to the States should have arrived at the beginning of R. Reagan's term, but Reagan came up with, or rather, experts from his administration came up with a method of stimulating consumption of the population through the distribution of consumer loans accessible to everyone. Now they can come up with something again, well, introduce POPS (negative interest rate policy) and prolong the agony for many more years. But the trouble is, we are interfering here. We just need cheap money, and here in the west negative rates! Yes, Western bankers will deeply spit on all sanctions, the prohibitions of their governments and by hook or by crook will try to lend to us - we will consider heaven and mana five and even 7% per annum (plus, not negative!)! For comparison - you know, how much thanks to Nabuillina now loans for Russian enterprises? And let me remind you - for how many percent there is no such crime that the business would not go to? That is, the West, in order to support itself, will go into negative interest rates, and thanks to this we will tear in the economy! So the question is - is it not because the West wants to wreak havoc so that there simply aren’t any systems that can profit from these difficulties of the West?
      По мне - пусть вводят свой ПОПС или пусть повышают ставки с целью заново запустить сердце - мы в любом случае будем в плюсах. Ведь при повышении ставок неизбежно разорение многих западных предприятий, в т.ч. и тех, кто занимал давно заслуженные нами ниши на международных рынках. Например, Суперджет пробиться на мировой рынок не может, у будущего МС-21 так же будет затруднено продвижение на мировых рынках - там же все забито отстойными "Бомбардье" и прочими (пусть ВАФ утверждает, что это неплохие производители, для меня они отстой, годный лишь к тому, что бы их разорвать и выкинуть на помойку истории) "бразильцами"! При повышении ставок возможно разорение западных предприятий и освобождение нужных нам ниш.
      In short, we sit on the priest exactly - in any situation, we will win. But it’s better not to sit, but to actively prepare for the adoption of these advantages.
  • Sharapov
    Sharapov 3 January 2016 22: 22 New
    +6
    And I read about 8 years ago that the United States (read - to the dollar) is a couple of years away, and I continue this crap like a naive read. Rather, forced. And the dollar for 3 years from 28 rubles to 74 jumped - almost 3 times. Our economy depreciated just as much in the eyes of Western businessmen. The author simplified everything to the point of impossibility, once again trying to convince us all that black is white ...
  • Finntroll
    Finntroll 3 January 2016 22: 26 New
    +1
    I also read the year so in 2008-2009
  • shooter18
    shooter18 3 January 2016 22: 40 New
    +1
    The author of what nonsense? Harosh people fool their heads !!
  • robbihood
    robbihood 3 January 2016 23: 58 New
    -12
    Для всех "специалистов", хоронящих США с завидным постоянством. Сколько себя помню - лет пятьдесят.
    Россия начала модернизировать армию. Вот и сравним.С 1980 по 1989 год США увеличили военный бюджет от 4,2 % до 7% ВВП до $8,85 триллионов. СССР ответил обычной "асимметрией": дабы хоть как-то удержать паритет военных сил, СССР был вынужден увеличить военный бюджет от 22% до 27% ВВП до $2,67 триллионов. Печальные результаты этих гонок вооружения всем прекрасно известны.

    Nevertheless, in Soviet times, the economic potential of the USSR amounted to 60% of the US GDP, and now - to Russia - a little more than 10%. In military terms, in terms of defense spending, NATO and the Russian Federation differ by more than 10 times ($ 823 against 60,4 billion), and in conventional weapons, according to experts from the Academy of Military Sciences, Russia's potential relates to the potential of the NATO bloc much more than 10: 1.

    На долю США приходится 23% мирового ВВП, Соединенные Штаты выделяют на военные нужды 2/5 от всех мировых военных мировых расходов, в военно-технической и технологической области идут с опережением на 15-20 лет. Хотя оборонные бюджеты европейских стран вместе взятые значительно меньше оборонного бюджета США, после Крыма и "Новороссии" большинство центральноевропейских и балтийских стран увеличили свои военные бюджеты и запустили программы модернизации своих вооруженных сил.

    The ratio of the military potential of NATO and Russia is now many times worse than it was at the end of 1989.
    NATO and the United States have more than 3,3 million soldiers. 4,3 times more than Russia. A big advantage in aircraft - more than 20 thousand against 3429 Russian. The fleet is not even worth comparing: 1734 NATO ships against 305 under the flag of Russia (atomic submarines - 93 against 53). Military bases abroad - 150 against 6 Russian (data 2013-2015).

    Источники, из которых я взял вышеуказанные цифры - МО Российской Федерации, Ведомости, № 3688 от 03.10.2014, доклад НАТО "Оборонные расходы в 2014 году и оценки расходов на 2105 год" и Стокгольмский институт исследования проблем мира (SIPRI).

    The ratio of the military potential of the NATO bloc and Russia is now many times worse than it was at the end of 1989, not to mention the depleted crisis industrial, technological and scientific resources of today's Russia.

    The most interesting thing is different: in one of Boeing’s divisions, on the Pentagon’s order (CHAMP project or The Counter-Electronics High Power Microwave Advanced Missile Project), a megaraket with high-voltage microwaves was created, which is capable of instantly hitting (burning) the electronically directed systems control and communications, radars, detection systems, aircraft electronic equipment, etc. We can say that this is the most humane weapon, because it will allow to defeat the enemy without human casualties and destruction. It destroys only the electronic equipment of a potential enemy. This is the question of who wins in the modern world: backward armies or advanced technologies, inaccessible to aggressors with medieval consciousness.
    I will try to clarify this idea. When, with an obsolete and unprofessional army, dominated by weapons of the last century and bullying reigns, trying to "wipe the nose" of the whole world, it looks like a military-political cheating from the outside, and the time of scammers and throws like Hitler irretrievably passed.
    1. Wheel
      Wheel 4 January 2016 01: 26 New
      +5
      Quote: robbihood
      Вот и сравним.С 1980 по 1989 год США увеличили военный бюджет от 4,2 % до 7% ВВП до $8,85 триллионов. СССР ответил обычной "асимметрией": дабы хоть как-то удержать паритет военных сил, СССР был вынужден увеличить военный бюджет от 22% до 27% ВВП до $2,67 триллионов.

      Oooooooooooooooooooooooooo ...
      Defense spending in the USSR for 1989 20,2 billion rubles. or 2,4% of GDP
      +1990 70,9 7,5

      For comparison, the US defense spending in 90 amounted to $ 310 billion, or 5,4% of GDP

      Mr. Garin, probably, was breaking into a glimpse into Soviet statistics, well, or in poor assessments ...

      Hmm, even Echo Matzah didn’t think of such insanity ...
      1. robbihood
        robbihood 4 January 2016 01: 58 New
        -1
        Шлангом прикидываетесь? 2, 4%? Ну-ну..... даже газета "Правда " до этого не додумалась.
        All expenses were hidden in different articles. and you know that. Although, maybe I'm thinking too much about your knowledge.
        1. Wheel
          Wheel 4 January 2016 04: 08 New
          +7
          Quote: robbihood
          Шлангом прикидываетесь? 2, 4%? Ну-ну..... даже газета "Правда " до этого не додумалась.

          The newspaper Pravda never printed such data, if Che.
          So, let's proceed to the execution.
          В 1976 году в ЦРУ спецом для оценки военных расходов СССР была создана "Команда Б". Плодотворно поработав, сие подразделение выдало свой вердикт: военные расходы СССР составляют 12-13% ВНП.
          And then begins the circus tent.
          In his report at the Princeton Conference, the CIA Director J. Tenet acknowledges, in particular, that “each and every National Intelligence Assessment (NRA), prepared from 1974 to 1986, gave overestimated forecasts of the pace and scale of modernization of Moscow’s strategic forces.”
          Richard Pearl, the former US Under Secretary of Defense for International Security, wrote: “It remains a mystery why such a huge mistake was made and why it became chronic. We may not know the truth. ”
          This is to ensure that users have access to the real numbers of the defense budget after 91 years.
          Т.е. даже 12% - это "огромная ошибка".
          Таким образом, даж "заклятые партнёры" опровергают приведенное Вами.
          Quote: robbihood
          All expenses were hidden in different articles. and you know that. Although, maybe I'm thinking too much about your knowledge.
          Hide expenses in other articles?
          What for?
          And from whom?
          Наши противники доступа к цифирям не имели, что заставляло их создавать "экспертные комиссии".

          And what I know - you never dreamed of.
          I will share a piece of knowledge, revealing to you a terrible secret.
          In view of the complete and unconditional planning of the economy, it was almost impossible to transfer expenses from one pocket to another.
          If IL-76 is purchased for the needs of the Army, then it is paid for it from the pocket of the Ministry of Defense, and if for civilian needs, then from the pocket of Aeroflot. And no other way.

          Я написал "почти что" потому, что один путь всё ж существовал, но, блин, какая засада, работал этот путь в другом направлении.
          Классический пример: привлечение военнослужащих (преимущественно "партизан") к уборочным работам. Техника закупалась МО, эксплуатация то ж за счёт МО, а результат шел в гражданский сектор. Кроме того, после уборочной частично убитая "партизанами" техника передавалась на баланс гражданских структур бесплатно.

          Well, a digression.
          There were no trillions in the 80s, not the same scale of prices.
    2. poquello
      poquello 4 January 2016 02: 57 New
      +3
      Quote: robbihood
      .
      not to mention the exhausted crisis industrial, technological and scientific resources of today's Russia.
      .

      we give in,
      Macaque’s Russian economy was torn to pieces, the army of dill was smashed, only one problem - ett we don’t bury, ett some kind of Mark O'Byrne slanders on the Fed, maybe you will expose his crap
      http://cassad.net/politika/geopolitika/22811-kitay-i-rossiya-udaryat-po-dollaru-

      zolotom.html
      pysy: the Pentagon has learned to do this without a rocket?
    3. Proud.
      Proud. 4 January 2016 11: 42 New
      +4
      "Шикарно" штырите!Вначале сравниваете НАТу и САСШ с СССР.Потом НАТу и САСШ с Россией.Потом начинаете шпарить всёпропалолозунгами:
      Quote: robbihood
      not to mention the exhausted crisis industrial, technological and scientific resources of today's Russia.

      Далее переходите к запугиваниям при помощи "вундервафли":
      Quote: robbihood
      created a megaret

      Next, lay out the portable stand, again blaming Russia for the remaining, aggression and other things:
      Quote: robbihood
      This is the question of who wins in the modern world: backward armies or advanced technologies, inaccessible to aggressors with medieval consciousness.

      Потом опять учите нас,"убогих":
      Quote: robbihood
      I will try to clarify this idea.

      Основываясь не на фактах,а на методах ифовойны-"Лей больше грязи!".
      Quote: robbihood
      When with an obsolete and unprofessional army, in which the weapons of the last century dominate and hazing reigns,
      Next, go on to the stamps again:
      Quote: robbihood
      trying to "wipe the nose" around the world
      Denying the real state of things.
      Quote: robbihood
      then it looks like a military-political cheating

      These are your problems, how it looks on your part. You are not trying to come in, examine and delve into it. You have a different task. To deflect. To think harder. To simulate thinking more accurately.
      Quote: robbihood
      and the time of scammers and scammers like Hitler has irrevocably gone.

      Да ну!?Ближайший,это ПецЯ.Ученик тёмнокожего "господина",с именем в честь временной жилой постройки.Который,сам представитель наглых кидал и шулеров.Почему вы,о них скромно умалчиваете?А!?Или задача другая?
      1. cap
        cap 4 January 2016 12: 59 New
        +2
        [qe = Gordey.]uotThis is your problem, how it looks on your part. You are not trying to come in, examine and delve into it. You have a different task. To deflect. Think wrong. Rather, imitate thinking.
        Quote: robbihood
        and the time of scammers and scammers like Hitler has irrevocably gone.

        Gordey"Да ну!?Ближайший,это ПецЯ.Ученик тёмнокожего "господина",с именем в честь временной жилой постройки.Который,сам представитель наглых кидал и шулеров.Почему вы,о них скромно умалчиваете?А!?Или задача другая?"


        Hitler with modern scammers was not standing nearby.
        Current scammers speak English fluently, have two or even three
        citizenship, decent money in convertible currency, and paid speechwriters to justify their theft.
        Even the military people of the enemy (on the VO website) are trying to confuse.
        It turns out somehow very cheap hi .
        P.S."А!?Или задача другая?"
  • Platonich
    Platonich 4 January 2016 05: 43 New
    +1
    Do not worry, they will still survive us, because they will rot for a long time !!!
  • 33 Watcher
    33 Watcher 4 January 2016 06: 41 New
    +3
    Да ладно, пара лет... Вон они уже и "трансатлантическое торговое соглашение" подготовили. Полмира поработает на них и все у них нормально будет. И я уверен, что у них проектов по преодалению кризисов за чужой счет еще десяток подготовлено. Лет на сто вперед...
  • Skif83
    Skif83 4 January 2016 11: 07 New
    +2
    Only, they live these couple of years including at the expense of us!
    А кое-кто еще и призывает к тесному сотрудничеству с "партнером".
    Well, no, she died, so she died!
    Let's bury it sooner, perhaps !?
    Until it stank the whole world ...
  • Akuzenka
    Akuzenka 4 January 2016 19: 42 New
    +1
    They need a war to preserve their dominance, so they are trying to drag us into the war. And the author’s reasoning is correct, but secondary. The West NEVER had a fair economy, only a thieves.
  • avvg
    avvg 3 January 2016 21: 42 New
    11
    In my opinion, rotting capitalism, led by Washington, will still rot for a long time. The US Federal Reserve will not give up financial power so easily.
    1. Homo
      Homo 3 January 2016 21: 52 New
      +3
      Quote: avvg
      In my opinion, decaying capitalism will long rot.

      Он долго делал запасы. Поэтому продержится какое то время. Если только кто то их "подданных" не взбрыкнёт и ускорит падение.
    2. poquello
      poquello 3 January 2016 22: 36 New
      +1
      Quote: avvg
      In my opinion, rotting capitalism, led by Washington, will still rot for a long time. The US Federal Reserve will not give up financial power so easily.

      xs sadness write
      It’s all about the Fed’s bankruptcy balance sheet, which, during the Obama presidency, was inflated at the expense of various low-liquid securities by 5 times and reached $ 4,5 trillion. It is important to bring here one eloquent detail. In 2007, in response to the first signs of an internal debt crisis, the Fed tried to work within a civilized framework, attracting loans from foreign central banks in the form of currency swap agreements. But the Americans quickly abandoned this practice, according to which the whole world lives. The borrowed money was paid off at the expense of a printing press, which was then turned off. Currency expert Adam Hamilton of Gold-Eagle described this time as follows: “Since the end of 2008, the growth in the money supply of the United States has been epicly unprecedented. The Fed Challenges Belief in the Dollar. ”



      The Obama administration had great hope for a sharp leap in the American economy, the dividends of which, according to the logic of the White House, were supposed to cover unsecured dollars. However, this was not destined to come true. Over the past 7 years, US GDP has grown from $ 14291 to $ 17460 billion in 2014 (or to $ 15441 billion in 2007 prices), by about 19%, or 8%, adjusted for inflation. Thus, zero interest rates and astronomical dollar injections of the Federal Reserve in the amount of $ 3700 billion provided an increase in real gross product of only $ 1150 billion.



      The picture would be incomplete without a remark about the middle class, whose well-being is the main indicator of the American economy. The Pew Research Center analytical center on December 9, 2015 made disappointing conclusions: the share of households that correspond to the category of “middle peasants” in 2014 amounted to only 43%. This is 19% less than before the mortgage crisis. The structure of the middle class has also worsened. The number of those bordering on poverty has increased from 16 to 20%. These results are from a new statistical study based on data provided by the US Census Bureau. The class of wealthy Americans would have narrowed even more if not for the seven-year quantitative easing of the Fed.

      http://cassad.net/politika/geopolitika/22811-kitay-i-rossiya-udaryat-po-dollaru-
      zolotom.html
    3. MrK
      MrK 4 January 2016 00: 32 New
      +3
      Quote: avvg
      The US Federal Reserve will not give up financial power so easily.


      All right. Oh, after all, as in the West they argue - While the rich lose weight, the beggar will die
  • Monos
    Monos 3 January 2016 21: 42 New
    +6
    Makarenko is a thinking person. I always read it with interest.
  • izya top
    izya top 3 January 2016 21: 45 New
    +2
    which is shale? now for sale (it’s not in vain that the black-headed ushana allowed) the igilov’s (almost free) will be driven under the guise of shale
    1. Zoldat_A
      Zoldat_A 3 January 2016 22: 42 New
      11
      Quote: iza top
      which is shale? now for sale (it’s not in vain that the black-headed ushana allowed) the igilov’s (almost free) will be driven under the guise of shale

      America for the sake of oil, not only with ISIS, damn it ... All this has already happened ...
      1. the villain
        the villain 4 January 2016 00: 03 New
        +3
        Quote: Zoldat_A
        America for the sake of oil, not only with ISIS, damn it ... All this has already happened ...

        And who would doubt it.
  • Vlad5307
    Vlad5307 3 January 2016 21: 45 New
    +7
    "Как знать, может быть, после окончания мирового кризиса, в который мы с вами сейчас стремительно погружаемся, экономисты сумеют придумать аналогичную «турбину» и для планетарной финансовой системы? Я считаю, что наши технологии уже достаточно продвинуты, чтобы заменить «невидимую руку рынка» более современным и эффективным механизмом."

    Such a mechanism has long been proposed by economists, soberly analyzing the development of society! This is the path of the economy of socialist development, not covered by the ideological cliches of various parties and Western economists, inventing various attractive models of capitalism, paid for by their customers! tongue
  • alone
    alone 3 January 2016 21: 45 New
    15
    Lord, maybe there’s enough talk about decaying capitalism, huh? I’ve heard it rotting and decaying for 42 years, it doesn’t rot at all. Maybe it’s time to do real business, and not dream about how rotting capitalism. And, speaking of rotting capitalism, we themselves have long since switched to capitalism, appeared like mushrooms after the rain billionaire-oligarchs-monopolists who in no way understand how they made their fortune.

    P.S., as soon as there’s nothing to write, they immediately remember about capitalism, which rots and rots
    1. novobranets
      novobranets 3 January 2016 22: 02 New
      +7
      Quote: lonely
      Lord, maybe there’s enough talk about decaying capitalism, huh?

      All right, New Year's all the same, let's talk about the fun.
      According to Peck, Durka yearned for impossibility. Do you want to laugh?
      Recall that today Petro Poroshenko posted on the Internet the cover of the special issue of the authoritative journal The Economist for 2017. It shows the Ukrainian president among world leaders.

      However, it quickly became clear that on the present cover of the magazine for 2016 Poroshenko did not find a place. In fact, in the front row depicted Vladimir Putin.
      The fake cover caused a storm of jokes and malicious comments. A few hours after publication, the Ukrainian president’s Twitter post was deleted.

      Read more on NTV.Ru: http://www.ntv.ru/novosti/1590501/?fb#ixzz3wD0OK8gz

      Here is a disgrace, nowhere else to go. This boar took up photoshop. Instead of Putin, he decided to squeeze his face. I am under the table.
      1. Zoldat_A
        Zoldat_A 3 January 2016 22: 51 New
        +5
        Quote: novobranets
        Here is a disgrace, nowhere else to go. This boar took up photoshop. Instead of Putin, he decided to squeeze his face. I am under the table.

        What can I say? Boo-ha-ha ....

        Следующий шаг - прифотожабить Порося к "Троице" А.Рублёва...
    2. Bayonet
      Bayonet 4 January 2016 08: 43 New
      +1
      Quote: lonely
      .Maybe it's time to do real things, and not dream about how rotting capitalism

      Exactly! Maybe it's time to take care of your cow, and not dream, when your neighbor will die?
  • YohanPalych
    YohanPalych 3 January 2016 21: 48 New
    +3
    Cardiac arrest of Western capitalism (((((

    Meanwhile in Russia...
    1. Ahmed
      Ahmed 3 January 2016 22: 20 New
      -2
      Quote: YohanPalych
      Meanwhile in Russia...


      1. novobranets
        novobranets 4 January 2016 07: 28 New
        +4
        And what is this goat in a red shirt? Well done what, he chose the most, from his point of view, the most delicious for the past year, the most dear to his heart, baa alshuy work carried out, gnida. And now he is broadcasting about it with such a happy purr that you involuntarily start looking for a striped flag behind his back. With great pleasure I would have charged him with a nickle so that there would have been more spray of the holidays.angry
  • rov81
    rov81 3 January 2016 21: 49 New
    +4
    Depend on the dollar - sad !!! (
  • Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 3 January 2016 21: 52 New
    +7
    Оригинальный у автора взгляд на происходящее. А ведь не противоречивый! Близкий к нулю процент кредита любое предприятие может "гальванизировать" достаточно долго. А плюс к этому всякие IPO, когда предприятие стоит не столько, сколько реально стоит его производство и выпускаемая продукция, а сколько стоят его акции! А фьючерсы на несуществующие ещё активы? На ту же нефть. Сейчас ограничителем служит только мнение кредитных организаций, выделяющих тебе кредит под тот или иной процент. И чем ниже стоимость денег для этих кредитных организаций, тем меньше его риски, и тем слабее финансовая дисциплина.
  • beria
    beria 3 January 2016 21: 58 New
    -5
    At least the United States had a very successful year, but it does not care about the rest of the world. It is the right and smart policy.
  • Nikolay K
    Nikolay K 3 January 2016 21: 59 New
    +3
    The example of shops selling apples is not correct. If the author assumes that shopkeepers (evil capitalists) purchase apples from farmers (workers) as needed, then when demand and sales prices fall below the level of profitability, shopkeepers simply stop buying apples and trade at a loss and bankruptcy does not happen, the apples will rot. farmers, or those will have to cut prices. If we assume that the shopkeepers IMMEDIATELY bought all the apples from the farmers, then with the bankruptcy of one of the shops, the apple supply will not decrease, because bankruptcy legal procedure does not physically destroy apples. Moreover, this interpretation leads to the fact that the supply of apples becomes a constant value, in no way dependent on prevailing prices. In practice, such examples of the interaction of supply and demand under the influence of prices are correctly cited not as shopkeepers, but as producers. Then yes, that’s about how it works. But the author really wanted to show that it was the evil capitalist shopkeepers who were to blame for all the crises, that he had to forget about logic.
  • anew
    anew 3 January 2016 22: 08 New
    +6
    Прикольно, конечно, про торговцев яблоками. Которые, чтобы отдать кредиты, покупают яблоки по доллару, а продают их по 80 центов. Это даже круче, чем "навар из под яиц" из известного анекдота.
    На самом деле в "ситуацию" попадают не торговцы, а производители. Торговцы как раз больших складских запасов не делают, незачем. Поэтому легко вместо яблок могут начать торговать дровами. Или бриллиантами. Или просто переждать, если дрова и бриллианты, как и яблоки, вдруг плохо идут.
    So it’s better to redo the story of the merchants to the story of gardeners. It will be closer to reality.
    hedge funds specializing in problem loans are dying now, like flies under jets of dichlorvos:

    So they have such a fate. These are highly profitable, but also, as a result, high-risk offices. Today is, but not tomorrow. Why mention them?
  • The comment was deleted.
  • onix757
    onix757 3 January 2016 22: 19 New
    +4
    According to the statements of the leadership of the Russian Federation, our economy is integrated into global bourgeoisie, and in this connection it is not clear why the author did not schedule us to stop this heart failure. It is thought that our resuscitators-reformers will not allow the death of a Western partner.
  • olimpiada15
    olimpiada15 3 January 2016 22: 27 New
    +4
    The problems are not with the West, but in Russia, it is our economy that is struck by gangrene. That's what economists should think about, and not shed tears all over the West.
  • pilot bin-bom
    pilot bin-bom 3 January 2016 22: 29 New
    +3
    To date, already gained a lot of new technologies in the energy sector. So for 1 kg. hydrogen (its heat capacity is 3 liters of high-octane gasoline) is spent $ 1. Moreover, hydrogen production can be organized practically anywhere and without the cost of its production of petroleum products. That is real - less than the cost of oil, no need to drill wells, no need to transport through half the world, no need to do catalytic cracking of oil. Moreover, a very large shopkeeper in the field of oil production - the company TOTAL is already building hydrogen gas stations in Europe. (Type in a search engine - a green object at the airport of Berlin).
    So the smart shopkeeper - will not go broke, but will master a new product that is in demand.
    1. Nikolay K
      Nikolay K 3 January 2016 23: 14 New
      +3
      Great, but believe in fairy tales. How are you going to produce this hydrogen? I know one industrial method - electrolysis, i.e. decomposition of water into oxygen and hydrogen by electric current. But this is an energy-intensive reaction, which means large-scale hydrogen production will require the same increase in electricity production. And we produce it, including from oil and gas. Those. to replace hydrogen in gasoline engines, the same oil will have to be sent to produce additional electricity. As they say, the same I ... tsa, only in profile.
      1. pilot bin-bom
        pilot bin-bom 3 January 2016 23: 44 New
        -1
        05.06.2014
        The first hydrogen fuel cell electric vehicle was powered by the Green Hydrogen Hub at the multifunctional gas station at the Berlin-Brandenburg Airport under construction. Willy Brandt. Hydrogen for refueling the hub produces directly on the spot, using electrolysis, wind and solar energy.
        In addition to refueling hydrogen transport and generating gas by electrolysis, the H2BER project involves the operation of a combined heat and power station and the supply of hydrogen to a public gas distribution network, which forms a single energy transportation system. Commercial partners, including Total Deutschland, Linde, McPhy Energy, Enertrag and 2G Energy, intend to invest more than 2016 million euros in the project by 10, the German government - 5 million.
        “After seven years of research and development, the application for the transport sector has been expanded for everyday use and the technology market is ready for it,” said Katherina Reiche, parliamentary secretary of the Federal Ministry of Transport and Digital Infrastructure, at the opening of the facility. “The issue of bringing this technology to the market, which we will support through the necessary measures, is currently being addressed.”
        More than 50 cars and buses in Berlin are already fueled by hydrogen as part of the Clean Energy Partnership between industry and the Federal Ministry of Transport.

        Well, as for me personally, I not only believe in fairy tales, I also bring them closer to reality, having 2 patents for a fuel cell - the main element of a hydrogen engine. Patent numbers lead? or believe it?
        1. Nikolay K
          Nikolay K 4 January 2016 00: 30 New
          +3
          "Ну а что касается лично меня, так я не только в сказки верю, я их еще и приближаю к реальности, имея 2 патента на топливную ячейку - основной элемент водородного двигателя."
          Then I really made a mistake. You do not believe in fairy tales, you tell them yourself. Hydrogen is a good thing, and this is certainly the technology of the future, I wrote about this about 25 years ago at the Chemistry Olympiad, but until the problem of obtaining cheap electricity is solved, it will remain a fairy tale. Windmills and other energy sources of non-traditional orientation do not count. They can not yet provide the necessary economic parameters due to their capital intensity.
          1. pilot bin-bom
            pilot bin-bom 4 January 2016 20: 45 New
            +2
            Today on ONT plot shown. As in Germany, cars run hydrogen. At a cost no higher than the cost of oil fuel. As for the cheapest hydrogen production, these are hydroelectric power stations - well, so that the turbines would not spin idle. Such projects are already working in Norway. There, a tidal hydroelectric power station with fuel cells was combined - when there is an excess of electricity, then hydrogen is produced, when - a deficiency, then the fuel cell blocks are turned on. Efficiency - about 90%.
            By the way, all modern submarines and space stations are equipped with hydrogen fuel cells.
            As for Russia, about the projects of tidal hydrogen power plants can be read here.
            http://pozitivchik.info/2012/06/o-samoj-moshhnoj-elektrostancii-v-mire/
            http://ekologhealth.ru/energy-of-the-planet/toplivo-i-energiya/581-istochnik-ene
            rgii-zapasaemyy-v-vodorode.html
            1. Alf
              Alf 4 January 2016 21: 07 New
              0
              Quote: Pilot bin-bom
              There, a tidal hydroelectric power station with fuel cells was combined - when there is an excess of electricity, then hydrogen is produced, when - a deficiency, then the fuel cell blocks are turned on. Efficiency - about 90%.

              And the cost of this energy? Doesn’t lose in comparison with thermal power plants or nuclear power plants?
      2. Grim Reaper
        Grim Reaper 4 January 2016 00: 43 New
        +2
        Steam reforming. From natural gas. Electricity costs are an order of magnitude less. (Not the topic of cheap hydrogen, the topic of technology.)
      3. onix757
        onix757 4 January 2016 16: 56 New
        0
        Quote: Nikolai K
        But this is an energy-intensive reaction, which means large-scale hydrogen production will require the same increase in electricity production. And we produce it, including from oil and gas.

        I remember there was such a discus about the solar power industry, and with all our skepticism in the West, they began to cheapen this technology and very successfully
      4. Saratoga833
        Saratoga833 4 January 2016 17: 05 New
        0
        It is not necessary to receive electricity by burning oil, gas or coal. There are solar stations, wind, tidal, hydro, etc. .
        1. Alf
          Alf 4 January 2016 17: 49 New
          +1
          Quote: Saratoga833
          There are solar stations, wind, tidal,

          It is still expensive, and indeed not in all areas of the country.
          Quote: Saratoga833
          hydro power plants

          Environmentally very bad. You just need to apply everything in moderation, looking around and weighing all the pros and cons.
        2. pilot bin-bom
          pilot bin-bom 4 January 2016 21: 09 New
          0
          Today on ONT plot shown. As in Germany, cars run hydrogen. At a cost no higher than the cost of oil fuel. As for the cheapest hydrogen production, these are hydroelectric power plants. Such projects are already working in Norway. There, a tidal hydroelectric power station with fuel cells was combined - when there is an excess of electricity, then hydrogen is produced, when - a deficiency, then the fuel cell blocks are turned on. Efficiency - about 90%.
          By the way, all modern submarines and space stations are equipped with hydrogen fuel cells.
          As for Russia, about the projects of tidal hydrogen power plants can be read here.
          http://pozitivchik.info/2012/06/o-samoj-moshhnoj-elektrostancii-v-mire/
          http://ekologhealth.ru/energy-of-the-planet/toplivo-i-energiya/581-istochnik-ene
          rgii-zapasaemyy-v-vodorode.html
  • Sharapov
    Sharapov 3 January 2016 22: 29 New
    -9
    Quote: Ami du peuple
    But for Russia there is only one way out - to revive the planned economy and socialist forms of management (or, as some now call it, state Stalinist capitalism

    Then you should immediately buy a small printing house - print coupons. What is a planned economy? With an oak tree, sorry, collapsed? I recommend visiting Sev. Korea - cool off from this thought.
    1. velikoros-xnumx
      velikoros-xnumx 4 January 2016 07: 07 New
      +1
      I recommend visiting Sev. Korea - cool off from this thought.

      Рекомендую почитать материалы и понять что такое плановая экономика в ее изначальном смысле, а не то что вы наблюдали в 80-х, и в к/ф "Служебный ромае".
      1. Sharapov
        Sharapov 4 January 2016 08: 44 New
        +3
        Об изначальном смысле плановой экономики уже нет смысла читать. Эпоха не та. Эффективная сбалансированная планово-рыночная экономика это - экономика Швейцарии, Германии и США. Баланс как раз заключается в хорошем сочетании и взаимном дополнении "плановости" и "рыночности" экономики.
  • Santjaga_Garka
    Santjaga_Garka 3 January 2016 22: 34 New
    0
    It would not be very bad if events developed, as the author of the article predicts! Thank you for encouraging *)
  • serezhafili
    serezhafili 3 January 2016 22: 38 New
    0
    Why are we again going to socialism?
    1. tokens3
      tokens3 3 January 2016 22: 54 New
      -3
      Why are we again going to socialism?

      Yes, it seems they never started.
      In the USSR there was a general tribal system laughing
      с "засоциолизированным" вождем в мавзолее.
      Yes, even capitalism really can not build.
      Out of corruption, a new deity has been created.
      Russia is a country of contrasts. Vani-gogi.
      1. Nikolay K
        Nikolay K 3 January 2016 23: 57 New
        -3
        Ну почему же общеплеменной строй? Скорее поздне феодальный, просто в 1917 сменились элиты. При царе, который считался наместником Бога на земле, земля была вроде как от Бога, т.е.государева, а распоряжались ею доверенные лица царя-дворяне и прочие помещики, на которых крестьяне гнули спину. При советской власти земля вроде тоже была общественной, только распоряжались ею новые ставленники избираемого новой элитой царя -генсека, в лице местных партийных органов, а крестьяне продолжали работать не на себя, а на "дядю", только теперь в красных революционную шароварах. Также и рабочие, как раньше жили на зарплату, так и став "хозяевами" заводов и фабрик продолжали жить на зарплату, а всю прибыль и прочие блага распределяла партийная номенклатура - новая советская элита.
        1. tokens3
          tokens3 4 January 2016 00: 24 New
          -1
          Nikolay K
          Why a tribal system?
          Ну потому что все делалось и "проговаривалось" c ведома вождей.Упоминание теории учений было просто запредельным.Атрибутика и т.д.Слишком много времени советский человек тратил на откровенную идеологическую лабуду.
          Harvest, always in the struggle \ in social competitions, not with oneself for profit. And with the district / region. External struggle laughing
          Thanks to the leader Brezhnev laughing somewhat normalized the process.
          More likely late feudal, just in 1917 elites were replaced. Under the king, who was considered the vicegerent of God on earth, the earth was kind of like God, i.e. the sovereign, and the trustees of the noble king disposed of it

          Николай к 1917 дворяне уже не имели всей полноты власти."Общение" человека с монархом было весьма формальным-раз в неделю в церковь.Да гимн.
          Freedom over the edge. Do you want to go to the hills on the Volga (high salary, well, or for a penny on your own piece of land). The choice was, although very complicated by corruption.
          So no. Not late feudal.
          Страна стремительно развивалась.А купеческое слово?Разве может быть "СЛОВО"в феодальном обществе?не от феодала?
  • zakamsk1971
    zakamsk1971 3 January 2016 22: 41 New
    +1
    US Presidential Election 2016 VS Apple Spas 2016 Russia. I propose on August 19, 2016 to bite off the Antonovka and wish the United States Angelina Jolie as president)
  • Nikolay K
    Nikolay K 3 January 2016 22: 55 New
    +5
    Автор правильно описывает, как низкие процентные ставки позволяют производителю пережить кризис. С одной стороны, это действительно приводит к надувную на рынке пузырей и мешает самоочищению рынка от слабых и неэффективных игроков. С другой стороны, это РЕАЛЬНО помогает экономике в кризис. Возьмите для примера американских производителей сланцевой нефти. Сейчас, при низких ценах на нефть, многие из них оперативно убыточны, но низкие процентные ставки позволяют им достаточно долго существовать в ОЖИДАНИИ возвращения высоких нефтяных цен. И если ожидания реализуются, то от этого хода выиграют все: производители покроют ранее понесенные убытки и получат прибыль, банки вернут тоже с прибылью, пусть не очень большой, ранее выданные кредиты, а государство в целом сохранит действующие производства и рабочие места. Да, в случае, если ОЖИДАНИЯ не реализуется, есть вариант, что вместо рядового кризиса может случиться глобальный экономический коллапс. Но мы ждем его очень давно, а он все не случается, потому как нынче штаты это мировой должник и если уж коллапс случится, он будет иметь мировой масштаб. Но на что хотел обратить внимание, в нашей стране гениальный экономист Медведев в кризис не снижает, а наоборот, повышает процентные ставки. И вместо эффекта смягчения кризиса, такая финансовая политика наоборот приходит к ужесточению влияния кризисных явлений на производителя. И можно гадать, доживут или не доживут американские производители сланцевой нефти до возврата высоких цен на нефть, но то, что многие наши производители не перенесут таких процентных ставок это однозначно. Почему наше правительство это делает, неужели от "большого ума"? Вряд ли. Скорее все дело в том, что сохранение и развитие производства не является приоритетом нашего правительства. А что тогда, спросите вы. Судя по реальным действиям, видимо сохранение и приумножение доходов банкиров и прочих владельцев финансового капитала. Ну а почему нет, пипл то хавает.
    1. Saratoga833
      Saratoga833 4 January 2016 17: 13 New
      +3
      Quote: Nikolai K
      In our country, the brilliant economist Medvedev does not reduce the crisis, but, on the contrary, raises interest rates.

      Этого "экономиста" давным-давно пора было гнать из правительства без права возврата, навсегда! И В.В.Путину так же давным-давно прекратить кумовство и семейственность в правительстве!
      1. Nikolay K
        Nikolay K 4 January 2016 20: 04 New
        0
        Эка вы на святое замахнулись, на кумовство и семейственность. Может еще и про прикажете позабыть про друзей и кооператива "Озеро"? wink

        And the point is if people and Medvedev are quite happy.
  • Strezhevchanin
    Strezhevchanin 3 January 2016 22: 57 New
    +3
    A short game, this is a film, was released not so long ago, which showed how much everyone does not care when it comes to huge money. Behind the puddle, everything is so bad that Ferguson is just a childish prank.
  • freejack
    freejack 3 January 2016 22: 58 New
    +1
    So far, it was only about apples - it seems understandable, then utter nonsense ... The American economy has been buried 3 times in our media over the past 500 years ... But ... while our rub is on fire .. and all the main indicators of American business activity are in good plus, at least mackduck, at least doujons .... and we all jerk off apples ... :)
  • Algetxnumx
    Algetxnumx 3 January 2016 23: 25 New
    +2
    Quote: Ami du peuple
    Americans both times emerged from global confusion as the main beneficiaries, why not try a third?

    The first two times there was no nuclear weapon, now it is in the event of war with conventional weapons, the losing side will certainly use it, and this is the collapse of the whole world.
  • Dyagilev
    Dyagilev 3 January 2016 23: 25 New
    +7
    Capitalism is a blatant absurdity, when one person with completely different intellect and morality (mainly with its absence) has the opportunity to accumulate a huge amount of resource and influence the course of society at its discretion. In our society, in most cases this resource is used to get an even larger resource to the detriment of the rest of the economy.
    1. anew
      anew 4 January 2016 00: 12 New
      -1
      Quote: Dyagilev
      when one person with a completely different intellect and morality (mainly with its absence) has the opportunity to accumulate a huge amount of resource

      If you accumulate, then not with different, but with a high level of intelligence. With a low level of intelligence, well, you never know, suddenly a drunken conception can only inherit. Or win the lottery.
      Quote: Dyagilev
      and influence the course of society at its discretion.

      What is it like? Bribe voters? What if they don’t bribe? And if they bribe, then who is to blame?
      Quote: Dyagilev
      In our society, in most cases this resource is used to get an even larger resource to the detriment of the rest of the economy.

      Насчет этого дискутировать не стану. Только уточню на всякий случай то, что наше общество не является капиталистическим. Поэтому примером "нехорошего капитализма" служить не может.
    2. Nikolay K
      Nikolay K 4 January 2016 00: 36 New
      -6
      Of course, wealth in the wrong hands is a blatant absurdity, we must take it and share it. And then pick up from those to whom they gave and again divided. And so on, until no wealth at all remains. This will be fair and high moral. Long live the return to the primitive communal system with free education and medicine!
  • Kostya Andreev
    Kostya Andreev 3 January 2016 23: 55 New
    0
    What smart people gathered here know how to raise the economy of the country (which is not the smallest in the world) and what needs to be done, most of them themselves have not gone beyond bold theories and beautiful dreams.
    If Putin and the ministers are such enemies of Russia, and do not know what to want with the economy, and want to ruin the industry, then why they will not do easier, open the borders with Ukraine and European goods will quickly crush domestic producers?
    And the fact that the majority here writes about the planned economy is wrecking and sabotage. For example: can you imagine how many M4 screws we need in our industry, and condoms for the population, and TVs, and lamps, and which machines, and how many tires, and how many forks and spoons? How can you make a plan?
    !
    1. Nikolay K
      Nikolay K 4 January 2016 00: 51 New
      +4
      Видите ли, если рассуждать логически, то есть два варианта: либо в нашей экономике все хорошо, либо нет. Вы, возможно полагаете, что все хорошо, но я так не считаю. Итак, если в стране не все хорошо с экономикой, то почему Путин и правительство последние минимум 5 лет не меняют ситуацию. Я вижу два варианта ответа: не могут или не хотят. Почему не могут, вариантов много, например, наш президент и премьер-министр вообще не влияют на экономическую ситуацию, или их влияние не может перевести влияние объективных факторов. Некоторые вообще говорят, что Путин то не настоящий, а потому, понятное дело, вообще ничего не решает. Но меня больше интересует вариант "не хотят". Для понимания, экономика, как наука, занимается прежде всего решением задач оптимизации. Плюс надо понимать, что экономика вещь многофакторная и взаимозависимая, ну это когда где-то лечишь, а где-то калечишь. Так вот, любой, кто учился на 1-м курсе Вуза знает, что для решения оптимизационной задачи должен быть выбран критерий оптимизации. Так у меня сложилось мнение, что наше правительство либо до сих пор не определилось с этим критерием, либо этот критерий- удержание самой власти, а собственно экономика дело десятое.х
  • kapitan92
    kapitan92 4 January 2016 00: 09 New
    +4
    ".....Очень скоро ФРС США вынуждена будет принять поворотное решение — или скрестить руки на груди и смотреть на опустошающую рынки чуму дефляции, или быстро понизить ставку обратно до нуля, чтобы ещё немного продлить агонию финансовой системы".....
    Это цитата из статьи! То ли автор статьи не оправился после встречи Нового года, то ли нас с Вами за идиотов считает.Уровень информативности этого "произведения" на уровне советского "агитпрома"!
    Очень скоро-это когда??? Агония штатовской финансовой системы-это как??? Это простые вопросы дилетанта глобальной экономической системы. Если учесть, что в составе золотовалютных резервов России бакс составляет около 40% и при "агонии финансовой системы" кому быстрее пиндык придет Штатам, с их уровнем развития обрабатывающей промышленности более 40% или нам с 13%.
    Коммунизм в 80-х мы построили, или почти построили, со слов наших ЦК-ых лидеров, потом мы "построили развитой рынок" со слов ельциных и чубайсов, а дальше ЧТО!? Дальше, на радость НАМ, будем ждать АГОНИЮ ФИНАНСОВОЙ СИСТЕМЫ! fellow
  • serge24680
    serge24680 4 January 2016 00: 50 New
    0
    About public debt and our investments either buy time to delay the war, or save their money ...
  • Cobra77
    Cobra77 4 January 2016 05: 04 New
    +1
    Quote: Eugene-Eugene
    Such predictions

    Again nonsense. Oil as well as apples goes through the trading system in the form of short-term options. Options are controlled non-stop stock. Stop order goes through the clearing system. TNK-brokers work with invoices. Manufacturers give quasi-invoices. Consumer plants are controlled by traders ... And where is capitalism here?


    Я думаю Вам стоит подробнее расписать свою мысль. Поскольку даже я немного понимая в биржевой торговле и читавший профильные методички не полностью понял. А части аудитории и слово "опцион" не понятно. :)
  • Cobra77
    Cobra77 4 January 2016 05: 40 New
    +6
    I have these forecasts about the fact that soon the States will glue the fins together for many years. Type public debt will destroy them, paper dollars, etc. Someday we'll all die. This always ends. But in the coming decades this does not threaten them. Yes, the fat is slightly lost under. The funding for the Pentagon and the companies around it will be cut. But they will start milking the EU stronger. In Asia, too, suck. Although China holds them back there, it cannot yet compete globally on equal terms. About the Russian Federation is not even talking. We are not only a competitor to them in the economic part, no one is calling at all. It is in the military sphere that we are dangerous to them, and even then exclusively due to nuclear weapons. We possess well if a tenth of the Union’s potential.

    По факту сейчас ситуация у РФ на порядок хуже чем у Штатов. Это у нас экономика стоит на 85% от продажи нефти и газа. А его цена падает, и не надо рассчитывать что она отскочит за 100$. И даже если не обвалится ещё, с 35$ за барель при нынешней системе мы жить нормально не сможем долго. Это у нас 80% товаров во всех почти областях импорт. Это у нас курс рубля улетел в 2.5 раза и судя по всему это не конец. Это у нас вместо попыток индустриализации и аграрной реформы, фигов листок импортозамещения, да и тот не работает. Это у нас увеличиваются поборы и налоги (как пример "Платон", желание ввести абонентскую плату за электричество, не индексация пенсий работающих и т.п, примеров то хоть отбавляй). Потому как казна почти пуста, и даже обвал курса рубля не помог. А главное что страшно (ибо всё выше описанное можно решить) у нас на верху сборище некомпетентных, жадных и тупых либералов. А вот это не решить так просто. Ибо наш Гарант хоть и не глуп, но ровно такой же либерал, только с налётом патриотизма. Вот недавно Ельцин-центр открывал... да.... Потому меня вот лично больше волнует что тут у нас в стране делается, а не там за Большой Водой в стране прерий и ковбоев.
    1. yuriy55
      yuriy55 4 January 2016 07: 29 New
      +2
      Quote: cobra77
      Because I’m personally more concerned with what is being done in our country, and not there beyond the Great Water in the country of prairies and cowboys.


      They bit ... Well, what can I say, in small quantities and snake venom is used as a medicine. And, take a word, the majority of people living in the country are concerned about the same issues - issues of well-being, even if own wealth is associated with the well-being of the country ... wink
  • would
    would 4 January 2016 05: 50 New
    +4
    Давным-давно когда я был маленьким,ходил пешком под стул я тоже слышал о крахе доллара,США,Европы. С тех пор прошло много лет и я слышу все тоже самое и почти ничего не изм...а ну да. Доллар теперь стоит почти 78 рублей (на данный момент),Михаил Владимирович Леонтьев теперь седой и старый,а не молодой с черными волосами. И все *думаю как бы их назвать то*...карманные "патриоты" все так же расписывают как умрет США и доллар и все так же не пишут что делать со своими проблемами. Для них крах какой то страны важнее чем процветание собственной...что конечно же немного не так и им важнее другое laughing

    Вот и fritzmorgen который в свое время писал много подобных постов,выступал против замены в статистике средней заработной платы на медианную (ну оно и понятно) отписал еще один пост. При этом вместо четких цифр,экономических прогнозов,статистики он как и многие представители его и смежных профессий использует субъективные метафоры. Ведь обосновать "свою" точку зрения научно он не способен.
  • kolyhalovs
    kolyhalovs 4 January 2016 06: 28 New
    +1
    economists will be able to come up with a similar "turbine" for the planetary financial system


    Автор, почему бы не назвать планирование планированием, а не какой-то там "турбиной"? Это же ещё только одно предложение добавить в текст. Нет, надо написать так, чтобы поняли не все.
  • yuriy55
    yuriy55 4 January 2016 06: 48 New
    +4
    Остановка сердца...Стенокардия...Крах империализма был бы неизбежен вместе с долларовой или другой подкачкой, да больно сладки плоды, которые выкладывают для внутреннего употребления на стол эти устои. Недаром, объевшись в своё время "социалистической каши", многие бывшие граждане СССР так рьяно гребут (направляют лодку, идут или едут) в "райские кущи изобилия и разврата". Это там, не дожидаясь решения Всевышнего,они обустраивают свой "рай". Пока такое распределение (простое рабовладение в новых вариациях) устраивает основную массу населения Земного шара, всё это продолжится.
    what
    Остаётся констатировать тот факт, что западный, впрочем, как и весь, капитализм стареет и дряхлеет. Он ещё пытается омолодить свою кровь, "втюхивая" идеи "жить долго и счастливо", но попытки эти не столько более редки, сколь бесплодны и безуспешны. Рано или поздно люди начинают понимать, что в возводимой ими пирамиде их место определено в нижних рядах.
    yes
    Рано или поздно капитализм умрёт. Только для этого надо определиться с государственностью и многообразием национальностей. Нельзя возводить социалистический вариант Вавилонской башни. Необходимо определить законы всеобщего взаимопонимания. Не было в истории долгого существования стран-паразитов, и это закончится неминуемым крахом. И не надо предвещать ему долгое существование только из-за того, что "в мои пятьдесят лет...". Сто лет для истории такой же срок, как для человека год...
    Реально и то, что с совершенствованием методов передачи информации возникают трудности при очередных попытках надувательства. Все меньше времени этот обман существует, так как для сравнения "белого" и "чёрного" появилось очень много способов, источников и вариантов...
    hi
  • antiexpert
    antiexpert 4 January 2016 07: 50 New
    0
    the author of the article did not notice one significant detail - the apples always have the same quantity, and if there is a lot of money this does not mean that they are acc. there will be a lot of apples)))
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Privat
    Privat 4 January 2016 08: 26 New
    +5
    Quote: Kostya Andrei
    And the fact that the majority here writes about the planned economy is wrecking and sabotage. For example: can you imagine how many M4 screws we need in our industry, and condoms for the population, and TVs, and lamps, and which machines, and how many tires, and how many forks and spoons? How can you make a plan?
    The desire to hang tags arises, as a rule, from reluctance to look around and think a little.
    For example, how companies, especially transnational ones (and even if they are monopolists) find out how much they will produce their products (the same M4 screws :)) in order to sell it as much as possible (profit is the main thing under capitalism), but so that it doesn’t left to lay dead cargo in warehouses?
    And why all the heads of departments in companies are obliged to issue a document within a certain time period, which, oddly enough, is called a businessplan?
    And it is also interesting why almost all the scientific developments of the USSR State Planning Commission were bought with a bang by just foreign corporations.
    Да потому, что бюджеты больших корпораций сопоставимы, а часто и значительно превышают бюджеты отдельных государств. И внутри этих корпораций царит то самое жёсткое планирование и административно-командная система, за которые недалёкие поклонники букваря "Economics" до сих пор клеймят социалистическую систему. "Костлявая рука рынка" - давно уже сказочка для легковерных простаков.
    Ясно же, что когда рынок какого-то товара делят 3-4 ТНК, им гораздо проще договориться друг с другом о разделе рынка (картельный сговор - совместное планирование), чем бессмысленно тратить средства и ресурсы, топя конкурентов в якобы "честной" конкурентной борьбе.
    Ну, а если не ясно, имеет смысл обратить взгляд на Китай, где разумное государственное планирование, осуществляемое, внимание, Коммунистической партией Китая, позволяет так рулить казалось бы рыночной экономикой, что у самых закоренелых "рыночников" только слюньки текут. А китайцы просто взяли лучшее у чисто плановой и чисто рыночной экономики и объединили в единое целое.
    They just did it without fanaticism (splashing water out of the bath with the child) and wisely.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. yuriy55
      yuriy55 4 January 2016 12: 29 New
      +3
      Quote: Private
      They just did it without fanaticism (splashing water out of the bath with the child) and wisely.

      The main idea in creating an economy ... good
  • Bayonet
    Bayonet 4 January 2016 08: 53 New
    +3
    "Попытаюсь сегодня простыми словами объяснить, почему дела в долларовой экономике обстоят крайне печально,"
    А еще бы услышать продолжение, простыми словами – почему рубль обесценивается на фоне "печальных дел в долларовой экономике"?, Тоже печально однако… особенно когда в магазин заходишь или счета ЖКХ получаешь.
    1. Erg
      Erg 4 January 2016 09: 40 New
      +2
      Everything is simple about the ruble - the Fed is trying to strangle the economically and politically rising Russia by lowering oil prices (not a single market, purely political and financial pressure). This method of strangulation worked, in due time, with the USSR. The budget of Russia was imposed in rubles. To preserve their number, while reducing the flow of currency from the sale, the Central Bank lowers the ruble. Otherwise, there will be no money, and remember the 90s ...
      1. yuriy55
        yuriy55 4 January 2016 12: 40 New
        +4
        I would not blame all the blame on the Fed. This office just prints money for everyone who has not yet realized that they give these green pieces of paper only for certain goods ...

        Our guys, who must strengthen the ruble, apparently in a fit of high passions and patriotism continue to issue coins and banknotes, the cost of which is higher than the face value ???

        But these parasites, who are seated in the government (because they eat for nothing), do not know that energy prices must be constant for some period of time and regulated by the state in order to provide the manufacturer with at least some opportunity to plan the production and profit invest in production?

        With such wise business executives inside and outside outside advisers is not necessary. They will not succeed in increasing national GDP due to trade. To successfully trade, you must create something successfully ... yes
      2. anew
        anew 4 January 2016 16: 56 New
        +1
        Quote: Erg
        Everything is simple about the ruble - the Fed is trying to strangle economically and politically rising Russia

        So, the economic recovery looks like this. Clear. And what does the economic decline look like?
      3. would
        would 5 January 2016 12: 48 New
        0
        The Fed cannot lower oil prices, oil exporting countries do so violating OPEC quotas to limit production. The most typical dumping.

        Fed tries to strangle economically and politically rising Russia


        If rising means stupid sitting on a corpse and the same waste of petrodollars, then I am scared to imagine that there is a fall.
  • AdekvatNICK
    AdekvatNICK 4 January 2016 09: 41 New
    +2
    and now let's remember how many articles there were that America was about to end.

    As a person who does not like to understand the economic intricacies, I would like to see similar articles in which everything is shown as an example.
    1. yuriy55
      yuriy55 4 January 2016 12: 53 New
      +1
      And here is what the once successful empires look like in realities:
  • Mavrikiy
    Mavrikiy 4 January 2016 09: 58 New
    +5
    Про шпану хорошо подмечено. Но картинку можно дальше развивать и уточнять. Например, в одной лавочке стоит печатный станок и иногда, понемногу, печатают фантики, для поддержки "своего производителя". А вот если соседняя лавка начнет продавать за тугрики, то у первой возникнут проблемы.
    1. yuriy55
      yuriy55 4 January 2016 13: 01 New
      0
      About Tugriks skillfully added, but there are criteria for sales by size (only a certain size), by color, by smell, by environmental friendliness, etc., etc. The paper can endure everything ...
  • Erg
    Erg 4 January 2016 10: 06 New
    +4
    Статья хитрая. "Указывая сущность экономики и пути выхода из кризиса", автор работает на ФРС, дурманя при этом разум народа. А именно ФРС и есть источник нищеты и войн в мире. Ключевое слово здесь - КРЕДИТ. Именно через него все (и государства и простые люди) попадают в рабство. Вспоминаю случай, когда я в "MAJOR" покупал машину. На вопрос - какой будете оформлять кредит? - я достал из-за пазухи "котлету" и сказал что беру за наличные. Начались беготня и уговаривания взять в кредит, цена машины при этом снижалась на 5%... Про то, что за пять лет я переплачу пол машины, корректно умалчивали. Вот так и доят нас... Всё дело в том, что на уровне государств проходит банальное принуждение к кредиту (вплоть до физического уничтожения несогласных). Взгляните на Украину, да и на нас... Я (как и остальной простой люд)ничего не занимал у банкиров, не просил помощи у МВФ, не брал кредиты... Так с чего вся страна "должна" выплачивать проценты по "займам"? А проценты платим мы. Ценами в магазинах, ЖКХ, низкими пенсиями, невозможностью прокормить семью честно и много работающему мужику... Прикольно получается - за нас взяли кредит, и теперь мы и наши дети-внуки должны горбатиться на буржуев всю жизнь.
    1. Saratoga833
      Saratoga833 4 January 2016 17: 38 New
      +2
      Quote: Erg
      It turns out fun - they took a loan for us, and now we and our children-grandchildren must be hunched over by the bourgeois all our lives.

      And this will continue until we break with the Fed!
      And before that, we will support the not-so-pleasant country of the United States and spread rot Russia!
      1. anew
        anew 4 January 2016 18: 56 New
        0
        Quote: Saratoga833
        And this will continue until we break with the Fed!

        So we are not connected with her anyway. Nothing to tear.
        1. Erg
          Erg 5 January 2016 00: 31 New
          -1
          Danuna ... What an obedient boy. lol fool
      2. The comment was deleted.
      3. Erg
        Erg 5 January 2016 00: 25 New
        +1
        Тут, друг, всё сложно для нас получается. Дело в том, что смысл афёры, провёрнутой предыдущими "руководителями" России, от нас тщательно скрывается. Пудря народу мозг замудрёнными терминами, типа "наздак просел", "обвал биржи", "транзакции", "падение азиатского рынка" и прочей билебердой, от народа скрывают главное - надо отдавать не им взятые "долги"... Владимирович знает, конечно, что причина всех войн, это деньги (власть). Но, чтобы разорвать этот порочный круг, нужна реальная сила. Как уж ему приходится - не позавидуешь. Нужно время. Но я чувствую, что власть через признание - это не то что власть через деньги... Вот здесь наша правда. soldier
  • Concealer
    Concealer 4 January 2016 10: 13 New
    +3
    Apples have nothing to do with it. Bad example of a real situation. Mega-cheap loans have arisen for a reason. No need to think that everyone has forgotten the elementary truths of capitalism. The reason is much simpler and more fundamental.
    Вернемся к фермеру и лавочкам. Причина на уровне фермера, а не на уровне лавочек с яблоками. Сегодня фермер использует сложнейшие механизмы, удобрения и искусственно созданные культуры яблок. И в каждом механизме, в каждом удобрении, и каждой яблони есть доля интеллектуального труда. Эта доля составляет интеллектуальную ренту со всей продукции фермера. Вот и получается, что из одного доллара, 70 центов уходит в пользу интеллектуальной ренты производителям механизмов, удобрений и яблонь. А для продажи яблок сегодня используются просто "космические технологии". Это современные компьютеры, экспертные системы и PR. И у всех этих систем продаж тоже есть интеллектуальная рента, составляющая не менее 10 центов из 20 центов с каждого лавочника. Вот и получается, что все, и фермер свои 70 центов, и лавочник свои 10 центов платят интеллектуальную ренту. Да вы просто вдумайтесь, это же почти 70 % уходит за интеллектуальную собственность. Но интеллектуальная собственность, это не станки и оборудование. Это не капиталистические средства производства!
    И потому капитализм умер. Он уже давно мертв. Вот потому и необходимы мега-дешевые кредиты. Они необходимы для покрытия 70 % уходящих в пользу интеллектуальной ренты! Потому что деньги полученные в качестве интеллектуальной ренты в производство уже не возвращаются. Да и какой в этом смысл, это же деньги полученные не за средства производства, а за интеллектуальный труд. И вполне естественно, что люди их получившие тратят их просто на себя или отправляют на "фондовый рынок". А что такое фондовый рынок мы уже знаем. Движение капитала давно остановилось. Изъятие капитала из производства и продаж происходит не первый год.
    And we see the end result right now - impoverished production, a bloated stock market and gift loans.
    Today, in all the leading countries, financial elites are in power. Since capital that is not circulating turns into a meaningless set of numbers (completely depreciates), which means that the foundations of the power of the financial elite are undermined, the elites are trying to save the foundation of their own power by a constant infusion of money. But sooner or later the tale will end. Money cannot be eaten (if you do not know, it is not edible), and despite the widespread misconception, money does NOT produce ANYTHING.
    Кто первый откажется от иллюзий и займется общественным производством, то и выиграет суперприз - основу власти будущего. И сегодня наибольшие перспективы у концепции "технологического превосходства". Вот только придется забыть о "священном праве" на средства производства. Да и смысла в этом больше нет. Еще раз - капитализм МЕРТВ!
  • jekasimf
    jekasimf 4 January 2016 10: 17 New
    +5
    К сожалению,есть еще один "медицинский" метод реанимации работы сердца - впрыск адреналина.
    Применительно к экономике,это война.Серьезная война.И этот способ №4,очень хорошо известен тем,кто "запивает черную икру,кровью младенцев".
    И сейчас прекрасно видно,что "они" упорно пытаются ,уже в третий раз,реализовать этот путь №4...
  • alllll
    alllll 4 January 2016 10: 52 New
    +4
    The article is primitive nonsense.
  • KBPC50
    KBPC50 4 January 2016 11: 31 New
    +2
    Never, while Europe needs the United States for a war against Russia, the heart of Western capitalism will not stop. Do not flatter yourself.
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  • Kostya Andreev
    Kostya Andreev 4 January 2016 12: 21 New
    0
    Quote: Private
    а если не ясно, имеет смысл обратить взгляд на Китай, где разумное государственное планирование, осуществляемое, внимание, Коммунистической партией Китая, позволяет так рулить казалось бы рыночной экономикой, что у самых закоренелых "рыночников" только слюньки текут. [/quote]

    In my opinion, in a planned economy it’s impossible. that trading on Chinese stock exchanges stopped after the index fell by 7%
    [quote = Privatir]And it is also interesting why almost all the scientific developments of the USSR State Planning Commission were bought with a bang by just foreign corporations.[/ quote] could you give an example?
    Even if this is true, then corporations are not state structures, but, roughly speaking, private agents are risking their money, not state ones.
  • polkovnik manuch
    polkovnik manuch 4 January 2016 13: 24 New
    +5
    Normal states do not refuse a planned economy, it is present in any state, it is recognized in the USA, finally realizing that a private trader always (whether it’s small or a corporation!) Will spend more money on the production of a unit of production and on its implementation and is constantly trying to get away from fulfilling social obligations, it’s more difficult for the state to refuse to fulfill social programs, so a planned economy is always more reliable and the future lies with it.
    1. anew
      anew 4 January 2016 13: 32 New
      +1
      Quote: polkovnik manuch
      Normal states do not refuse a planned economy, it is present in any state, it is recognized in the USA

      Вообще-то даже при СССР на Западе признавалось наличие планирования. В СССР это по-научному называлось "прогнозирование". Прогнозирование, в отличие от планирования (советского), это было очень плохо. А что с советской точки зрения на Западе было хорошо? wink
    2. Kostya Andreev
      Kostya Andreev 4 January 2016 13: 46 New
      +2
      [quote = polkovnik manuch] Normal states do not refuse a planned economy, could you give an example?
      As the truth in the middle thinks, one cannot completely abandon planning, but one cannot return to the plan of the USSR either.
  • Kostya Andreev
    Kostya Andreev 4 January 2016 13: 55 New
    +4
    Supporters of the return to the planned system, do not tell me how to do this? For example, what will we do with my friend who has his own production, tailoring. What kind of plan would we let him down?
    And to others, what plan are we going to lower? for example, to a builder, how much cement should he buy, how much should he build houses, and if I don’t like his services, why should I pay him my money, because a plan will come to me too? how, if you have a plan, set the prices, and if I think that his work is not worth the money, or the builder thinks that such prices are very small for such work.
    Most likely, a return to the planned system is offered by people far from production. and the lack of their business !!!
    I repeat! As the truth in the middle thinks, it is impossible to completely abandon planning, but it is also impossible to return to the plan of the USSR.
    1. Privat
      Privat 4 January 2016 17: 16 New
      +4
      Respected Kostya Andreev!
      Where did you get such wild views on planning? Victim of the Gaidar-Chubais liberal Darwinism and Fursenkov’s education reform? Why base your opinion on ancient jokes invented specifically to make it easier to tear a great country into your pockets?
      If interested, you can see this:
      http://subscribe.ru/group/na-zavalinke/10108953/
      The opinion, of course, is subjective, but an impression of a planned economy can be made.
      About TNCs. Take, for example, the leader of the oil industry Exxon Mobil with a turnover of about half a trillion dollars. This is more than the GDP of states such as Switzerland, Sweden, Austria, Norway and another 150 countries. Do you really think that managing such a colossus is easier than any Portugal?
      И поскольку мощные ТНК берут на себя функции, практически повторяющие государственные, включая политику (клиентов надо мотивировать), социальные (обучение сотрудников, их пенсии) и даже военные (частные охранные компании), то они и являются де факто государствами, и даже не в государстве, а над государствами. И чтобы не сильно рисковать своими деньгами, они имеют в штате своих "шараг" самых грамотных аналитиков, которые предлагают планы работы, позволяющие минимизировать риски и максимизировать прибыль при любом развитии событий. И самое интересное, что способы эффективного управления корпорацией вполне могут быть перенесены и на государства, если корпорации захотят своим ноу-хау поделиться. Тем более, что через лоббистов на окладе они и так имеют возможность "подрихтовать" политику государств, если вдруг их "демократия" куда-то не туда заруливает.
      And tell the fuck to your friend from somewhere to lower какие-то планы? Всё ровно наоборот. Если он, прикинув свои силёнки, подаст свой годовой (а при нынешней информационной структуре можно уже и месячный) план производства, то некий планирующий орган, видящий картину спроса и предложения в масштабе всей страны, может ему же выдать свои рекомендации. Типа "Ребята, кружевных трусиков можете шить сколько ниток хватит - спрос устойчивый и растёт, а вот с бюстгальтерами на меху будьте осторожны - можете прогореть." wink
      The decision to heed the recommendations or act at your own peril and risk is entirely up to your acquaintance.
      Analysis of the total volume of applications for cement - this is the plan for its release. From which it is immediately clear - it is necessary to build another cement plant or, conversely, re-profile a couple of existing fertilizers for production. And these decisions should be made precisely by the state, since private traders pulling each blanket over themselves are not able to ensure a balanced economy of the whole country.
      My opinion is that the future of humanity belongs to socialism such as Norwegian or Swedish, and predatory plunder for the sake of profit of the planet’s resources should be replaced by a rational resource-oriented economy, the goal of which is not to gain, but to satisfy the needs of people based on the competent and sparing use of (now limited) planetary resources . Otherwise, the economy will not be needed at all, because no one will survive in the global garbage dump.
      1. Kostya Andreev
        Kostya Andreev 4 January 2016 18: 10 New
        +2
        Maybe I am a victim of the Gaidar-Chubais liberal Darwinism and the Fursenkov reform of education. Why do you compare the state with private sharags, Exxon Mobil today is tomorrow it is not.
        I myself do a little business, and even knowing everything from the inside, I can’t predict what kind of demand will be, and I myself decide what to do to improve things, how much and where I will direct my efforts, and not some uncles from the competent authority who are more likely to just did not do business, but can only give advice and recommendations.
        The decision to heed the recommendations or act at your own peril and risk is entirely up to your acquaintance.
        Speaking of recommendations, if I follow their recommendations, and their forecast turns out to be erroneous, who will return the money to me, my family, and compensate for the losses, and how they will be responsible for the worthless forecast.
        In order not to be unfounded I propose. You give a forecast, I follow him and invest money. if it doesn’t work out (and most likely it won’t work out) then you give your property as compensation. Will you give recommendations on such conditions?

        Norway’s happiness in large-scale production of carbohydrates, and the presence of 5 million people in Russia, is not when this will not happen.
        And what future I will not know !!
      2. poquello
        poquello 5 January 2016 00: 52 New
        +2
        Quote: Private
        ... Analysis of the total volume of applications for cement - this is the plan for its release. From which it is immediately clear - it is necessary to build another cement plant or, conversely, re-profile a couple of existing fertilizers for production. And these decisions should be made precisely by the state, since private traders pulling each blanket over themselves are not able to ensure a balanced economy of the whole country.
        .

        but forgot to submit an application - wait when they re-profile?
  • Evil 55
    Evil 55 4 January 2016 13: 56 New
    0
    The dilemma is which of the World shopkeepers dies faster ... Or comes to the victory of communism ..
    1. Kostya Andreev
      Kostya Andreev 4 January 2016 16: 01 New
      -4
      For many, communism is not a shit to do, but to have everything !!!
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. anew
        anew 4 January 2016 16: 16 New
        -3
        Quote: Kostya Andreev
        For many, communism is not a shit to do, but to have everything !!!

        И по т.н. "развитому социализму" тоскуют в основном бездельники. Чтобы на работу нужно было ходить, как в клуб. Отдыхать. И чтобы за это еще и денег платили. И не сколько там, а столько же, сколько и всем остальным.
        1. unsinkable
          unsinkable 4 January 2016 20: 01 New
          +1
          Quote: anew
          И по т.н. "развитому социализму" тоскуют в основном бездельники.

          I assure you that I am not a slacker. A voice of reason says that we need to work. But a subconscious voice says: * It’s good not to do any damn things, but to have everything *. Nonsense. hi
          1. anew
            anew 4 January 2016 20: 34 New
            +1
            Quote: unsinkable
            The voice of reason says that it is necessary to work. But the subconscious voice says: * It’s good to do neither horseradish, but have everything

            How are we alike! repeat
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Erg
          Erg 5 January 2016 00: 41 New
          0
          anew. Твой флаг пал, и был брошен к подножию символа "бездельников". Молчи лучше, ибо история задолго до тебя расставила всё по местам.