Military Review

Square loop

104
Europe’s most powerful army destroys its own power


From the point of view of the domestic agitprop, the Armed Forces of Ukraine are a bunch of untrained punishers, repeatedly beaten by Donbass tractor drivers and miners. From the point of view of the Kiev propaganda campaign, the Armed Forces of Ukraine - the strongest army in Europe, which stopped the Russian aggression. It remains to find out what are the APU in reality and what will happen with them next.

During the war in the Donbass, the Armed Forces suffered huge losses. According to confirmed data, 140 were destroyed tanks T-64B / BV and 17 T-64BM, 28 BRDM-2, 12 BRM-1K, 12 BMD-1, 16 BMD-2, 19 BMP-1, 233 BMP-2, 4 BTR-4E, 2 BTR-3E , 91 BTR-80, 34 BTR-70 and 1 BTR-7, 5 BTR-60, 45 MTLB, 6 BTR-D, 6 SAU 2S9, 13 2S1, 23 2S3, 4 2S19, 1 2S5, 8 PTO MT-12 , 11 D-30 howitzers, 16 2A65, 1 D-20, 22 ML-21 BM-11 and 27 BM-3, 1 Osa air defense systems, 2 launcher and 2 ROM Buk air defense systems, 60 Tunguska air defense systems. In addition, 64 T-3B / BV and 64 T-16BM, 2 BRDM-13, 1 BRM-1K, 1 BMD-4, 2 BMD-30, 1 BMP-127, 2 BMP-3, captured by the DNI and LNR militia 4 BTR-33, 80 BTR-22, 70 BTR-3, 60 BTR-37, 1 MTLB, 13 BTR-D, 2 1C7, 2 3C1, 2 19C1, 2 5C19, 12 MT-7, 30 D-9, 2 65A2, 20 D-3, 21 BM-1, 27 BM-1, 10 SAM “Strela-2” (these are trophies, not the results of Voentorg). 24 Su-7 bombers, 25 Su-2 attack aircraft, 29 MiG-1 fighter jets, 30 An-2 species reconnaissance aircraft, 76 transport (Il-26 and An-6), 24 Mi-8 combat aircraft were shot down or crashed in catastrophes multipurpose Mi-2, 143 UAV Tu-3461. Killed at least 4 serviceman of the Armed Forces and other law enforcement agencies. The actual number of deaths can reach 5-50 thousand people. Alternative figures, amounting to almost 12 thousand dead, have the same relevance to reality as the XNUMX thousand Russian troops "laid to rest" in the Donbass by Ukrainian agitation prop.

Thus, the ground equipment of the Ukrainian Armed Forces has already lost more than is available today in the armed forces of Hungary, Denmark and Norway combined. However, there are many times more than lost. Enough for the formation of new units, formations and even two new operational commands.

Arsenal fair, but decrepit


Today, the ground forces direct subordination has the 19-I missile brigade, the 3 and the 8-th special forces regiment. The remaining units are distributed over four operational commands and airborne troops.

“The Soviet legacy has made the Ukrainian armed forces more combat-capable than one would expect”
OK “Zapad” (Rivne) includes the 24th mechanized, 128th mining and infantry, 44th artillery, 16th army aviation, 55th brigade communications, 10th mining infantry, 15th MLRS, 7th army aviation, 703rd engineer regiment.

OK "East" (Dnepropetrovsk) includes 17-Panzer, 53, 54, 56, 92, 93-th mechanized, 55-th Artillery, 18-th army aviation, 121-yu communications brigade, 107-th MLRS, 1039- th anti-aircraft missile, 502 th warfare regiments.

The OK South (Nikolaev) includes the 28 and 59 th mechanized, 40 and 43 th artillery, 11 th army brigade aviation.

OK Sever (Chernigov) includes the 1 th tank, 14, 30, 58, 72 th mechanized, 26 and 27 th artillery brigades, 1129 th anti-aircraft missile regiment.

The airborne troops include the 25-I airborne, 79, 80, 81, 95-I airborne brigades.

The following equipment is available in combat and training units, in storage and in repair. Up to 90 PU OTP “Point” and up to 50 P-17, 5 T-84U tanks “Oplot”, up to 1569 T-64 (including 65 T-64BM), up to 398 T-72, up to 165 T-XNUM.

More 500 BRDM-2, up to 433 BRM-1K. To 48 BMD-1, to 59 BMD-2, to 642 BMP-1, to 900 BMP-2, 2 BMP-3. Approximately 30 BTR-4, from 50 to 100 BTR-3, 75 English Saxons, to 159 BTR-60, to 780 BTR-70, 283 BTR-80, to 1983XTBL-43, 68 BTR-2, 9, 500, 2, 1 BTR-35, 2 19 426C2, up to 3 22C2, 5 98C2, up to 7 317C30, 283 2C36, 154 2CXNNXX. Up to 65 D-213, 20 XNUMXAXNUMX, XNUMX XNUMXAXNUMX, to XNUMX D-XNUMX.

342 mortar 2C12, 172 PM-38. 252 BM-21 Grad and 20 9P138 Grad-1, 127 BM-27 Hurricane, 82 BM-30 Smerch. 800 ATGM “Fagot”, 127 self-propelled “Sturm-S” (on MTLB) and 503 “Competition” (on BRDM-2), not less than 10 “Stugna”, and also up to 500 PTO MT-12. To 60 PU and ROM of Buk air defense missile system, near 120 Osa, to 150 Strela 10, to 100 ZRPK Tunguska and Shilka ZSU, up to a thousand anti-aircraft guns.

In military aviation, there are 112 attack helicopters Mi-24, but no more than 37 can take off from them. There are also about 30 Mi-8 and up to 18 Mi-26 (the latter are in storage).

A part of all the listed equipment cannot be restored for various reasons and is suitable only for spare parts, almost all the equipment (except T-84U, BTR-3 and BTR-4) is on the verge of full development of the resource. Nevertheless, if Russia and Turkey are excluded, a significant part of the military potential of which is located in Asia, which makes comparison with them incorrect, not a single European army stands close to the Ukrainian one both in the number of vehicles and in the presence of personnel experience brutal ground contact classic war with the enemy is either almost equal or much stronger. The ground forces of Ukraine are really the strongest in Europe. This is largely due to the voluntary disarmament of Europe (physical and psychological), but that is another question.

Can't fly?

Ukraine’s aviation situation is much worse.

In direct subordination of the command of the Air Force and Air Defense are 203-I training, 15, 25, 456-I airborne. The remaining units are divided into three air commands.

VK "Center" (Cornflowers) includes 9, 40, 831 th tactical aviation, 96, 138 th anti-aircraft missile, 138, 164 th radio engineering brigade, 156 th anti-aircraft missile, 31 th regiment.

VK "West" (Lviv) includes 7 and 114 th tactical aviation, 1 th radio engineering brigade, 11, 223, 540 th anti-aircraft missile, 76 th regiment.

VK “South” includes 204 and 299 th tactical aviation, 160 and 208 th anti-aircraft missile, 14 th radio brigade, 201 th anti-aircraft missile, 43 th regiment.

Square loopThe Air Force and Air Defense include up to 205 Su-24 bombers and up to 35 Su-24МР reconnaissance aircraft, up to 40 Su-25 attack aircraft, up to 58 Su-27 fighters and up to 206 MiG-29 fighters. However, only 14 Su-24 and 7 Su-24МР, 35 Su-25, 22 Su-27, approximately 30 MiG-29, prospects for restoring other machines (especially Su-24), can be lifted into the air only gently speaking, not obvious. In this regard, the Su-25, 17 interceptors MiG-11P and 25 MiG-10Р interceptors, 25 MiG-57 fighters that are stored up to 23 of the attack aircraft of the Su-XNUMX are absolutely hopeless.

The Air Force and other law enforcement agencies are 2-30 scout An (even 3 in storage), 1 military transport AN-70, 6-76 IL (even 55 IL-76 and 3 78 tanker Il-in storage), 3 An- 24 (still 5 in storage), up to 24 An-26 (plus up to 14 in storage), 2 Tu-134, 2 An-72 (and 1 in storage), 1 An-74. 6 An-12, 1 Il-62, Tu-154, An-2 are in storage.

In the ranks of the Air Force remains up to 59 training aircraft L-39 (and up to 37 storage). In the Air Force and other power structures there are up to 30 Mi-8 helicopters (still about 18 in storage).

As part of ground defense - up to 30 of the C-300PT / PS battalions and to the 14 battalions of the Buk air defense missile system.

For aviation, wear technology is more significant than for ground forces. The only aircraft that the Ukrainian Air Force received during the post-Soviet period is the An-70. Other machines are difficult to use not only in combat, but also for combat training. Practically developed resource and ZRV. In today's Europe, in many countries, the Air Force is much inferior to the Ukrainian, but this is poor consolation for Kiev.

Formally - fleet


Ukraine is very bad at sea. As part of the Navy, 2 sentry patrol ships (1135P and 1124P projects), 1 missile boat of the 206МР project, 1 1400М, 1 project 1258, 1, 773, 1, 1176, 2 project crew, landing craft The border guards include 12412 sentry ships of the 1 project (another 17 in the sludge), up to the 1400 of the boats of the project. 8M, up to 205 project 6P (and 2 in the sludge), to 1204 project 30 (the same in the sludge) and to XNUMX own-built boats, modern enough, but carrying only machine-gun weapons or none at all.

The naval aviation has 6 anti-amphibious aircraft Be-12 (up to 12 Baie-12 and 1 IL-38 in storage), 2 transport AN-26 (1 An-24 in storage) to 3 anti-submarine helicopters Ka-27PL (and 8 in storage), 2 Mi-14PL (still 1 in storage), 2 rescue Ka-27PS (the same in storage) and 1 Mi-14PS, 1 multi-purpose Ka-29 (3 in storage). The Marine Corps consists of 1 and 501 battalions, armed with 40 BTR-80, 8 mortar 2СX12, 8 of Igla.

With regard to the war at sea, even the joint potential of the Navy and the border guards of Ukraine can be considered zero.

USSR indestructible


Despite such significant problems in the air and especially at sea, the Armed Forces of Ukraine, of course, are the most efficient in Europe. They have a lot of technology (albeit quite old) and most importantly, they, unlike the Europeans, are ready to fight. Given the catastrophic state to which the Armed Forces of Ukraine were brought by all four previous presidents of Ukraine (from Kravchuk to Yanukovich), as well as the blatant incompetence of the high command, one can only wonder how prepared they were. The example of the Armed Forces of Ukraine once again confirmed that only a conscript army can wage a serious war. If the Ukrainian army was “professional,” it would have been disintegrated long ago. And the “volunteer battalions” sent to the Donbass together with the Armed Forces of Ukraine turned out to be, as was to be expected, legal bandit formations, they are the real punishers.

Today, the Armed Forces of Ukraine - the most Soviet army in the world. She has an extremely low level of training for commanding staff, an ugly attitude to the ordinary composition, indiscriminate drunkenness. Moreover, the current Kiev regime has managed to surpass the Soviet. The leaders of the USSR, unlike the Ukrainian ones, did not turn the war into a personal business; they did not go down to selling the bodies of the dead soldiers to their relatives. Let the maximum price, but sought to win, and not to delay the war to infinity. For Kiev, war is the most important business and at the same time domestic and foreign policy resource. However, almost all of today's Ukrainian leaders managed to visit the party and / or Komsomol workers, so there is nothing special to be surprised about.

On the other hand, the army serves primarily the country, not the regime. That is how they understood the situation in the Soviet army and were absolutely right. In addition, the most important advantages of the SA, which preserved the Armed Forces of Ukraine, were the above-mentioned willingness of people to fight and die, and in the most difficult conditions, which very often creates not so much the enemy as his own command. It was this Soviet legacy that made the sun more battleworthy than one would expect. Accordingly, the transition to NATO standards, about which the Ukrainian leadership endlessly speaks, is the fastest and most effective way to completely deprive the APU of combat capability, in fact destroy them. This is already visible today: the most Europeanized part of the population of Ukraine (residents of large cities and Galicia) at all costs try to avoid mobilization. The local “quilted jackets” are fighting for the territorial integrity of Ukraine in the first place, which the Ukrainian agitprop tries not to notice.

Mythologized disassembly


Further prospects of the Armed Forces of Ukraine depend on the economic and political situation in the country. In this regard, it is necessary to understand the nature of what is happening in the country over the past two years. Ukrainian reality is crammed with two well-established systems of myths. In one system of myths in Kiev, the Americans organized a Nazi coup, having the ultimate goal of Russia, in response to which the people of Donbass in one burst raised an anti-fascist uprising. In another system of myths, the Ukrainian people made a revolution of dignity and unanimously made a European choice, in response to which imperial Russia committed criminal aggression against Ukraine.

In reality, by the end of 2013, the two main oligarchic groups (Dnepropetrovsk-Kiev and Donetsk), who ruled Ukraine, brought the country to such a state when the peaceful coexistence of these groupings became impossible, the need for redistribution of spheres of influence in the economy and as a result in politics became necessary. And then President Yanukovych decided to create a third group, called the "Family." A similar state of affairs led to a grandiose criminal-oligarchic showdown that resulted in a civil war. In the first act, known as the Maidan, the Dnepropetrovsk-Kiev group destroyed the "Family" and brought down the Donetsk group. In the second act, known as the occurrence of the DPR and the LPR, the Donetsk group tried to at least partially recoup. Of course, on the side of both groups, external forces intervened (and the appearance of the West was on the side of the Dnepropetrovsk-Kiev one), but on the whole, what was happening had and is of intra-Ukrainian economic nature.

Of course, the winning group was expecting much more economic assistance from the West, it was in no way going to lose the Crimea and the Donbass. Objectively speaking, the West openly threw Kiev. However, as mentioned above, the new Ukrainian government very quickly turned the war into a business, multifaceted and profitable. At the same time, you can always expose yourself as a victim to the West and blame everything on the war inside the country.

The main thing is that the oligarchic group that has come to power successfully performs the task for which it organized the Maidan - the final embezzlement of Ukraine. Even in the West, they began to notice that corruption in the country today is even greater than under Yanukovych, although it seemed that there was nowhere else. Naturally, this finishes the Ukrainian economy and leads to the complete impoverishment of the population, although it has not flourished before. Of course, there is no talk of any “European way of development” even as a distant future, the leadership of Ukraine is going to integrate into the West exclusively within its own personalities. Despite the overwhelming propaganda, the population of the country has already begun to understand: it is not exactly what they promised, or not at all.

Planed cut


Ukraine now has a fairly large military budget, but a significant part of it was originally laid out for looting (this is one of the most important components of a business in a war). The new equipment is still practically not produced, only the old is reanimated, and, as a rule, by “cannibalization”, that is, the complete dismantling of some machines to restore others. The APU requires a total rearmament (even of the ground forces, especially the Air Force and Navy), for which there is obviously no money. While it is not something that did not start, and even not planned. As a result, in a few years, the problem of developing a resource will be fatal for a technician.

The main problem of the APU, however, is different. In Ukraine, there is simply no political entity that is not in words but in deeds is interested in their restoration. The current leadership, as mentioned above, has real goals and objectives completely different. Who can replace him is completely unclear. Ukrainian Nazis exist mainly on the money of oligarchs with Israeli citizenship, so it is very difficult to take them seriously. Saakashvili, unlike Poroshenko, Yatsenyuk and others, hates Russia sincerely, and not because it is commercially beneficial, and at the same time wants to become at least the Prime Minister of Ukraine. It is possible that he will succeed even for a while. But it will not last long anyway. And not because of the Georgians, but because there is too much idealism in it. In Ukrainian politics, this category is not in principle.

As for the people of Ukraine as a whole, a significant part of them still believe in the “revolution of dignity”, “ideals of the Maidan”, “European choice” and “formation of the Ukrainian nation”, which, alas, does not cease to be just cannon fodder and milk cow for the ruling group. Awareness of this situation and the transformation of the masses into a real political subject is theoretically possible, but still stories Eastern Slavs had no such precedents. Therefore, the prospects of Ukraine in general and its Armed Forces in particular are seen as very sad.
Author:
Originator:
http://vpk-news.ru/articles/28601
104 comments
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  1. The comment was deleted.
    1. cniza
      cniza 24 December 2015 15: 15
      49
      And then the neighbor still flounders and when he feels that everything is khan, the most interesting will begin and it is very difficult to predict ... most will say yes we always wanted to be with Russia, and the most active ones will say yes, we fought, only underground and will demand preferences and awards ... here I see something like this.
      1. Denis Obukhov
        Denis Obukhov 24 December 2015 15: 35
        76
        There is no need to compare the modern Ukrainian and Soviet armies, this comparison is at least not correct and all the more offensive for us who served in the Soviet army. The fact that at the moment the Ukrainian army is inherently a rabble. The Soviet army - whose strength was feared in the world. And everyone laughs over the Ukrainian, especially about their Marine component.
        1. Lukich
          Lukich 24 December 2015 16: 40
          18
          Quote: Denis Obukhov
          And everyone laughs over the Ukrainian, especially about their Marine component.

          at exactly laughing
          1. Temples
            Temples 24 December 2015 17: 38
            +3
            It is not necessary to compare the modern Ukrainian and Soviet armies, this comparison is at least not correct and all the more offensive for us who served in the Soviet army.


            Still how to compare !!!

            Who needs a strong army in Ukraine?
            Europe? - no. Europe needs a completely dependent Ukraine, toothless, without the ability to "snap" and show will.

            How to get rid of the army?

            A proven option is civil war.
            Which we are observing.
            They destroy themselves.
            Not only technology, but also people are dying in this slaughterhouse.

            And if they change their minds and decide to return to Russia, then they will return to the poor and without the sun.

            So we compare what was and what is.
        2. zennon
          zennon 24 December 2015 18: 59
          +3
          Quote: Denis Obukhov
          And everyone laughs over the Ukrainian, especially about their Marine component.

          And it’s completely in vain! And you know that in the entire history of independence in Ukraine there were 45 admirals! Of these, 2 complete, 7 vice, the rest are counter? What, now is not funny?
          1. Magabi
            Magabi 24 December 2015 21: 29
            +2
            And how many SHIPPED?
          2. magosvel
            magosvel 24 December 2015 23: 52
            +1
            Yes, they were from Ukraine, more precisely from Little Russia, and they served the Russian State!
            1. brisk
              brisk 25 December 2015 03: 04
              -1
              Quote: magosvel
              magosvel Yesterday, 23:52 p.m. ↑
              Yes, they were from Ukraine, more precisely from Little Russia, and they served the Russian State!


              Well, they were from that land! And roughly speaking, many of them "chirped on the same mov"! Well, or your dialect-dialect-accent, Khokhlyatsky dobann! And their psyche from birth absorbed "Khokhlyatsko-Khokhlyandskoe"! But try to find admirals who would be gypsies by nationality. Will you find a lot all over the world? So what is the role of human genetics, which is directly related to their origin?
      2. Denis Obukhov
        Denis Obukhov 24 December 2015 15: 38
        38
        From the article pulls rotten choke! Comparing the Soviet army with the Ukrainian Armed Forces, Donetsk and Lugansk called the bandit groups that are at war with the same group in Kiev, practically inscribed an equal sign between them.
      3. Juborg
        Juborg 24 December 2015 16: 39
        20
        The article is a fat minus. Author, where are the numbers from? To compare the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the army of the USSR is a spit to all of us people born in the USSR.
        1. avdkrd
          avdkrd 24 December 2015 18: 57
          +6
          Quote: juborg
          The article is a fat minus. Author, where are the numbers from? To compare the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the army of the USSR is a spit to all of us people born in the USSR.

          Comparison is not an equal sign, especially since the composition of the equipment of the Armed Forces of Ukraine remained in the USSR. Actually, during the collapse of the USSR, Ukraine received the best part of the technology and thank God that nuclear toys were taken from it. The entire Western Group of Forces was withdrawn to Ukraine. The equipment of my tank regiment from Germany was sent there (1992), and the regiment itself was disbanded. I was perplexed about this and together we came to the unfortunately erroneous conclusion that this was not the collapse of the USSR, but a change in format. It was not in my thoughts that Ukraine would become a hostile state with a fascist ideology. I am personally flattered that despite 25 years of the destruction of the army, Soviet technology is still pulling the strap. Imagine that the Armed Forces of Ukraine, with the same attitude, would be equipped with Western models. The Germans, with their attitude to technical regulations, half of the Tornado cannot fly, and there is no general theft. Try to store Abrams for 20 years, despite the fact that periodically some "piece" will be unscrewed, whatever for household or sale ...
        2. g1v2
          g1v2 24 December 2015 23: 00
          +4
          The numbers are likely simple. Khramchikhin seized upon lostarmor and militaribalans2015. At the first, the confirmed losses of the parties with photos and geo-referenced (by the way, he has far from the latest data), and the second gives the list of PSUs for this year. Well, or the author took last year’s military balance and subtracted the loss. request
          As for the losses of dill, everything is simple - the losses that they recognize as such, plus those recorded in diester and supposedly dead from diseases and ns. Ukrainian parties say about 8 thousand. I believe that in the region of 16-20 thousand. Only after Debaltseve in a couple of months did everyone collect and transfer about 500 bodies of dead soldiers to the UAS, and these are only those who were not buried and were not taken out by the whole.
          The number of troops in the east, according to data from the Ukrainian side for October, I quoted in one of the comments, but I repeat. Vsu. Tanks - in the middle of October in the east there were 350, only 450 - some of them are faulty, and some are just dug up. But alright, let them fix it all. So 450 tanks. Light armored vehicles of 1400 pieces, taking into account MTLB and light armored cars. Rszo is only 230 pieces, and there is a catastrophic shortage of hail, and there is not enough bk to hurricanes and tornadoes (almost all the bk that was scraped up for action against the LPR was burned up in Swatovo TOGETHER WITH SEVERAL HURRICANES AND DEATH). Artillery and mortar caliber more than 100 mm 800 pieces. There are 40 aircraft, about 30 turntables. 73000 manpower (taking into account the latest demobilization). soldier
        3. brisk
          brisk 25 December 2015 03: 26
          0
          YUBORG, the author just doesn’t say anything at random, but objectively sets out the material. The first time I saw a competent, unbiased article. And it feels that the author is both specialist and competent. And what facts did you expect, what figures? Well, for the sake of curiosity --- what?
      4. veksha50
        veksha50 24 December 2015 17: 18
        +6
        Quote: cniza
        the fun begins and it is very difficult to predict.


        Well, yes ... Your comment took place at 15.15, but a little earlier on the news line there was other news ... TASS we still trust ??? then it’s not RBC, HERE, not the Ear of Moscow ???


        TASS 15.03
        In Ukraine, protesters tried to bring a pig in a coffin into the building of the Rada ...
        Source: https: //news.yandex.ru/yandsearch? Cl4url = tass.ru% 2Fmezhdunarodnaya-pano
        rama% 2F2555054 & lang = ru & lr = 15 & rpt = story & ncrnd = 53

        PS True, they did not hint at Poroshenko, but at the death of the Ukrainian economy and, in particular, its agricultural sector ... However. a little pig in a coffin is very significant ...
        1. Army soldier2
          Army soldier2 24 December 2015 18: 41
          +2
          I just can’t understand why Mr. Khramchikhin should write about what he does not understand.
          The Soviet Army, at least in the period before Gorbachev, was a powerful, combat-ready army. It’s stupid to consider the aircraft of the Ukrainian Armed Forces, which, according to him, are not subject to restoration. To believe that the people went with arms in their hands for the ideas of the oligarchs is also stupid.
          If you add that Khramchikhin himself is stupid, you get a complete set.
          1. Senior manager
            Senior manager 24 December 2015 19: 51
            +4
            Armeec 2. Well, just done! He didn’t say anything, he just cheated and became stupid himself.
      5. vodolaz
        vodolaz 24 December 2015 20: 47
        +2
        Some kind of muddy article: to tell how bad things are in the Armed Forces and at the same time say that the army is the strongest in Europe. Some figures are given, a bunch of contradictions in the article itself.
      6. Skif
        Skif 25 December 2015 03: 02
        0
        Demand awards for yourself, "For Courage on the Internet Front" for example. And do not obsere ALL Ukrainians, dear marshal, my grandfather went through the whole war, his three brothers died, and ordinary people are not to blame that scum is in power in Ukraine now
      7. Skif
        Skif 25 December 2015 03: 10
        0
        Yes, neighbor, it’s shitty for you, in the Ukrainians you see only ben. Der
  2. meriem1
    meriem1 24 December 2015 14: 56
    +5
    For losses !!! BRAVO !!! BIS !!!! And all this without the Russian Aerospace Forces. It's scary to think if there is electronic warfare and aviation to throw. Only. The network writes about the preparation of a dissecting strike in order to wrestle the border from the DPR and LPR. Interesting. If a shell flies into our territory ... Maybe We will be "scared"? And let's jam the firing points !!! Hitchcock would have a rest ///
    PS
    In addition, the most important advantages of the SA, which retained the APU, was the aforementioned readiness of people to fight and die, and in the most difficult conditions, which very often creates not so much the enemy as their own command.


    One must know how to die. Dying for your Girls. For the Mothers. Where is it from ??? Just pour blood (((
    1. Ami du peuple
      Ami du peuple 24 December 2015 15: 09
      +6
      Quote: meriem1
      Interesting. If a shell flies into our territory ... Maybe We will be "scared"? And let's jam the firing points !!!

      You know, Ukrainian shells flew into our territory. And civilians were killed and houses were destroyed. Likely We (with a capital letter, huh?) Were frightened if there was no obvious response to such actions by the APU.
      1. The comment was deleted.
        1. Haettenschweiler
          Haettenschweiler 24 December 2015 15: 20
          13
          Quote: vladimirZ
          And what could not have been done without kicking the Soviet army, USSR, Soviet power?


          - Why immediately "kick"? The Soviet army had many shortcomings. Including those listed. This did not prevent the SA from taking Berlin and establishing its hegemony over most of Eurasia for 70 years. And idealizing "everything Soviet" is not worth it. We must look at our past with sober eyes, respect it exactly as it was, and not as it is seen through rose-colored glasses.
        2. The comment was deleted.
      2. olgen58
        olgen58 24 December 2015 16: 07
        +2
        This is all provocation ukrov with the filing of their owners on their orders to specifically draw us into this war. Americans are just waiting for this
      3. Svidetel 45
        Svidetel 45 24 December 2015 17: 31
        +7
        We were not afraid, but unfortunately the Kremlin leaders made Russian and pro-Russian people in Donbass and Lugansk the subject of their bargaining with the West, everyone hopes that it will be possible to come to an amicable agreement with him, because there are too many if not in the authorities themselves, then in their immediate circle from the so-called business elite has their own selfish interests, which are highly dependent on the state of relations with the West.
        1. Pirogov
          Pirogov 24 December 2015 18: 46
          +5
          We were not afraid, but unfortunately the Kremlin leaders made Russian and pro-Russian people in Donbass and Lugansk the subject of their bargaining with the West, everyone hopes that it will be possible to come to an amicable agreement with him, because too many if not in the power structures themselves, then in their immediate circle from the so-called business elite has their own selfish interests, which are highly dependent on the state of relations with the West. ,,,,,,,,, .................. ..... You wrote absolutely correctly, but I would like to add not only in Donbass and Lugansk but also in other areas!
      4. Voha_krim
        Voha_krim 24 December 2015 21: 17
        0
        Quote: Ami du peuple
        You know, Ukrainian shells flew into our territory. And civilians were killed and houses were destroyed.

        It was a real provocation.
        Quote: Ami du peuple
        Likely We (with a capital letter, huh?) Were frightened if there was no obvious response to such actions by the APU.

        And if they would answer (this is exactly what the mattress sought) - there would be a war, and not with Ukraine, but with the World.
    2. marlin1203
      marlin1203 24 December 2015 15: 15
      +5
      And the country is not small by European standards. 40 million after all. There may be few high-tech weapons, but "cheap and cheerful" will be found, and this is quite enough.
    3. Haettenschweiler
      Haettenschweiler 24 December 2015 15: 17
      +7
      Quote: meriem1
      If a shell flies into our territory ...


      - Already flew. Nothing happened. In general, this is almost the first serious research article on this topic. It's even surprising that nowadays war is in trend in Syria. And here - Ukraine. And so thoughtful. A definite plus.
    4. aleks 62 next
      aleks 62 next 24 December 2015 15: 20
      21
      .... For losses !!! BRAVO !!! BIS !!!! ...

      .... "... At least 3461 servicemen of the Armed Forces of Ukraine and other power structures were killed. The actual number of those killed could reach 4-5 thousand people. ..."

      .... Something thin .... Passed not so long ago infa similar more to reality - about 21 thousand. killed and about 50 wounded .... This is more like the truth ... And it's not about the numbers that you like .... In one Debaltsevo "they cooked more than the author indicates ... hi
      1. Haettenschweiler
        Haettenschweiler 24 December 2015 15: 21
        +4
        Quote: aleks 62 next
        In one Debaltseve "they cooked more than the author indicates ...


        - Prisoners are constantly released or exchanged. It is difficult to class them as "irrecoverable losses".
        1. aleks 62 next
          aleks 62 next 24 December 2015 15: 40
          0
          .....- The prisoners are constantly released or exchanged. It is difficult to class them as "irrecoverable losses" ....

          .... The conversation is not about prisoners, but about the cargo of 200 APU .... hi
      2. Vadim237
        Vadim237 24 December 2015 17: 15
        11 th
        We put in the same amount in Chechnya, but we started in exactly the same way - the "Soviet experience" - it's good that we ended up with it.
        1. papas-57
          papas-57 24 December 2015 19: 27
          +7
          "We put the same amount in Chechnya, but we started in exactly the same way - the" Soviet experience "- it's good that we ended up with it." There was no "Soviet experience" at the beginning of the Chechen campaign, the chiefs-commanders forgot and did not really teach the soldiers. If there were Red Army units of the late 40s in Chechnya, there would be a completely different war, more correct and meaningful, shorter in time and predictable in its ending.
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 24 December 2015 21: 31
            -3
            Then the losses would have been not 3000, but 20 thousand.
        2. The comment was deleted.
    5. Aleksandr69
      Aleksandr69 24 December 2015 15: 42
      +2
      more than once already flew, and even with the victims, and what ???
    6. Rosty
      Rosty 24 December 2015 15: 59
      12
      Dying heroically, as we were taught by officers on the tactics of the Marine Corps, should be the enemy soldiers, fighting for their capitalist homeland. Our task is to help them with this.
  3. kostya-petrov
    kostya-petrov 24 December 2015 14: 57
    16
    However, the B-435 stands beautifully on the pier in the southern bay of Sevastopol!
    And guis is closer to her face, since she is the heiress of the Soviet Union!
    1. meriem1
      meriem1 24 December 2015 15: 08
      +1
      Quote: kostya-petrov
      However, the B-435 stands beautifully on the pier in the southern bay of Sevastopol!
      And guis is closer to her face, since she is the heiress of the Soviet Union!


      It costs itself and costs. They sit on their knapsacks and choose options ... as if not to get into the harlot.
    2. Riv
      Riv 24 December 2015 15: 27
      +4
      At first glance at the photo I thought it was an aircraft carrier. Then he saw the submarine. "Submarine aircraft carrier? Cool! .."
  4. Alexei
    Alexei 24 December 2015 14: 58
    48
    Today, APU is the most Soviet army in the world. She has an extremely low level of training of command personnel, an ugly attitude to the rank and file, and general drunkenness. Moreover, the current Kiev regime has managed to surpass the Soviet one. The leaders of the USSR, unlike the Ukrainian, did not turn the war into a personal business, did not stoop to selling the bodies of dead soldiers to their relatives. Although the maximum price, but sought to win, and not to drag out the war indefinitely.
    I want to charge my crown right hook for such a paragraph.
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 24 December 2015 15: 00
      18
      Quote: Alexej
      I want to charge my crown right hook for such a paragraph.

      I also put "-" for this. No.
      1. vladimirZ
        vladimirZ 24 December 2015 16: 08
        +6
        And I have a critical, not swearing comment on this article, which was pouring mud on the Soviet army, officers, the USSR, and expressed disrespect because of this, the author of the article, the site moderator, who are interested, deleted the comment. There you have it, and freedom of expression. All those who disagree with the opinion of the moderator are removed. What kind of orders?
    2. Igor39
      Igor39 24 December 2015 15: 30
      +5
      And kick in
  5. shooter18
    shooter18 24 December 2015 15: 03
    +5
    Quote: kostya-petrov
    However, the B-435 stands beautifully on the pier in the southern bay of Sevastopol!
    And guis is closer to her face, since she is the heiress of the Soviet Union!

    According to US intelligence, he stands off the coast of Belarus))
  6. iouris
    iouris 24 December 2015 15: 07
    -3
    The "noose of independence" is pressing on the throat of the Russian imperial project.
  7. Zomanus
    Zomanus 24 December 2015 15: 18
    +4
    As I personally understood from the article, I’ll have to fight with the Ukrainian army
    and it’s robust enough to fight.
    And even if it will be an easy victory, you will have to pay the price for it.
  8. veksha50
    veksha50 24 December 2015 15: 21
    +7
    "Ground forces of Ukraine - really the strongest in Europe"...

    It is somehow said incorrectly ... Well, this was said by Poroshenko and the author of the article, Khramchikhin ... Who else adheres to this opinion ???

    I would say - a European army that has modern experience in warfare ...

    And again it sounds incorrect ...

    Well, they go into battle, die, win somewhere, lose somewhere ... This is not a combat experience yet ... And, say, shoot at a voluminous target, which is a city - it still does not show masterly training gunners ...

    Talking about aviation and the navy - to make people laugh ... Even that which could fly and swim does not engage in combat training, and even less so - does not participate in the conduct of hostilities ...

    So - let them consider themselves the best and most efficient army in Europe ... But (!!!) they have not fought with Russia (pah-pah-pah) ...
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. brisk
      brisk 25 December 2015 02: 15
      +1
      Quote: veksha50
      veksha50 (1) Yesterday, 15:21 p.m.
      Well, that was said ... and the author of the article, Khramchikhin ... Who else holds this opinion ???


      Yes, the most literate and clever article so far. And the most objective on this topic, which I read with interest on this site. And Khramchikhin does not write at random. I had not yet reached the end, but I knew that there would be a shaft of minuses for him, as no more than pluses. And so it happened here. It is quite possible to believe him and the figures that he announced. And not those "reports" in which six months ago there were 40 thousand "dead dill", "reports" from various venerable "headquarters". Read "Kavkaz-Center", so that will have 100 thousand in the first. And 60 thousand in the second. So why believe him?
  9. Tusv
    Tusv 24 December 2015 15: 21
    +4
    Today, APU is the most Soviet army in the world.

    I did not understand what the speech was about. If the Armed Forces of Ukraine is the most Soviet, then how many days of the Armed Forces of the Armed Forces is not waiting for the weather near the sea to land on the British Isles? The Soviet Army is like zeroing two bits. Oh yes, between your legs
  10. gabonskijfront
    gabonskijfront 24 December 2015 15: 22
    +2
    Cato the Elder, who never tired of repeating that Carthage should be destroyed, was not a bloodthirsty person, he just understood that Rome and Carthage are two mutually exclusive projects and any delay is additional blood. You can negotiate, sometimes it is forced to take into account interests, but it is never necessary forget that Kiev must be "destroyed".
  11. Peacemaker
    Peacemaker 24 December 2015 15: 24
    +4
    From Treasure Island

    Here, no matter the page, gloomy faces, Luidorov and piastres ringing. There will be troubles, chases, fights, Blood, murder and deceit Because of a scrap of this paper here - It depicts some kind of plan. All the money, money is blaming, - All evil is from them, I’d never see them! They came for me, thank you for your attention, -Now they must be killing.
  12. Riv
    Riv 24 December 2015 15: 25
    +8
    The author’s point of view does not hold water.
    If Yanukovych is all such a mafia, then why didn’t he crush the Maidan in a gang way? There would be all expenses - two belts for a heavy machine gun.
    If the APU is so strong, then why are they trampling in the mud in the Donbass? Would have taken - and a great blow ... They do not want a gallery?
    If ukrovoins are ready to fight and die in the most difficult conditions, then why are there so many deviators? A huge number of recruits safely pulled to Russia. Probably the conditions in the war are not difficult enough ...
    Well, about the losses: according to the experience of the Second World War, opponents refused active offensive actions, having lost half of the personnel. How many ukrovoyak is feeding fleas in the defense of Donbass now? Draw your own conclusions.

    In general, let the author go better to play VoT instead of sprinkling articles.
    1. Army soldier2
      Army soldier2 24 December 2015 18: 52
      +3
      The Soviet Army believed that units lose their ability to attack at a loss level of 25%, and stability in defense - at 50%. Armies of different states have different numbers. The highest were in the USSR and Germany.
      A lot depends on the motivation of the personnel and the moral and psychological state of the troops.
      1. Riv
        Riv 25 December 2015 09: 24
        +1
        An example is the historically accurate film Hot Snow. The battery, in which one gun remained and an incomplete detachment of personnel, was ready to fight again in the morning. They simply had nowhere to go. If you run, the tank will catch up, so at least shoot for the last ... That is, we do not mean losses in people, but also in equipment and in command personnel. And not as part of a company, but at the unit level. Do I explain it clearly? :)

        In the Red Army, 80% of the people attacked with a shortage, officers and companies supporting artillery and aviation would have been in the companies. But this is an exception, not a rule. The Soviet Army did not participate in such conflicts where such a high fighting efficiency would be required. So the numbers are of course theoretical. But even if the Ukrainians stood at a loss level of 10% (and less seems to be inconvenient), it’s still quite a lot. Based on my army experience, from the video that I saw, I would estimate their losses in boilers to 40% of the personnel and up to 100% in terms of technology.
  13. Chulman
    Chulman 24 December 2015 15: 31
    11
    For the Soviet Army to the author in a jug!
  14. wow
    wow 24 December 2015 15: 33
    11
    Nobody "here" believes in anything anymore. Former riders, the so-called "ATO heroes" having come to our work have a big conversation with us, on the topic: "... if you bark something like" fat to Ukraine ", then we will bury you (physically)." And NOBODY barked! Hunt to eat. But nobody pity them. The dirtiest and stinkiest job. If they wanted to be "filthy" they took it off (got it) ...!
  15. gorgo
    gorgo 24 December 2015 15: 39
    0
    Good objective display. Thanks to the author. The only thing, I’m not very sure about the power of the Armed Forces of Ukraine ... There seems to be a moot point. But perhaps I’m not ready to argue with this. And yet, I would nevertheless put external factors ahead in the causes of the Maidan, and only then the interests of local oligarchs. Indeed, in fact, who allowed these oligarchs to become oligarchs? The map of the anti-Russian revolution in Ukraine for a very long time lay in the sleeve of Western comrades.
    1. brisk
      brisk 25 December 2015 02: 48
      0
      Quote: gorgo
      The only thing is not very sure about the power of the APU ...


      Why not sure? Did he praise and praise them? On the contrary, he gave them a very low rating and all-all the flaws and dirty laundry turned out. If on a 12-point scale, then somewhere there will be 5 points in the APU. Just. In my humble opinion, the Ukrainian Armed Forces are currently approximately equal in strength and combat ability with the Mexican Armed Forces. Although Mexico and the territory is 3 times more than Ukraine and the population is 3 times more. Yes, Ukraine has a practically zero fleet compared to even the Mexican one. Although why even? Mexico has a relatively strong fleet, as for such a country from Latin America. But Ukraine’s ground forces will be much stronger than the Mexican forces. And no wonder --- for those, the army is imprisoned under war with their own drug smugglers and other bandits. And as for comparisons of the fighting and moral-fighting spirit of those and others, it is also interesting to analyze. As such, the neighbors with whom it is necessary to fight must be prepared, they probably do not have right now. This is not France and Germany in 1900 - 1913, in anticipation of a showdown over old accounts. But this is a purely abstract and speculative comparison in the measure of forces in a hypothetical battle.
  16. olimpiada15
    olimpiada15 24 December 2015 15: 45
    +3
    As for "a significant part of Ukrainian citizens who still believe in a revolution of dignity ..."
    I do not believe.
    The fact that the Internet is teeming with Svidomo is true, it is a fashionable trend, it’s even security — the ability not to fall into the dungeons of the SBU, to avoid reprisals from punishers, and not to lose work.
    But in general, the people are suffering, the standard of living is nowhere lower, with work problems, there is not enough money for a communal apartment, business is collapsing, and the people blame the government for this. But this is not only not fashionable, but also dangerous, therefore it is not advertised.
    The population does not have government support, it just creates the appearance of propaganda through a certain point of view, people’s caution.
    With us, listen to the Echo of Moscow, you will conclude that the opposite is the opinion of the majority of the country's inhabitants.
    The broad support of Maidan by most citizens of Ukraine was not and is not, and there was a coup due to terror, provocations and the lack of resistance from law enforcement agencies, which were not only forbidden to stop the crimes of punishers, but they were also forbidden to defend themselves and were allowed to kill them. And what about the population, they have no ability to defend themselves.
    1. brisk
      brisk 25 December 2015 02: 32
      0
      Quote: olimpiada15
      The fact that the Internet is teeming with Svidomo is true, it is a fashionable trend, it’s even security — the ability not to fall into the dungeons of the SBU, to avoid reprisals from punishers, and not to lose work.


      Why do you say that? I swear quite loudly and addressedly both in queues and in the housing and communal services subsidy departments on candy presidents, premier nits and Judeo-Bandera ... world ... call .... "Because I know that this is not separatism. And I myself am from the Russian world, and not from the Negro world ... Now they have all been filmed, 2 months are not visible. And a lot of our other citizens in Ukraine are also publicly cursing and expressing themselves and "shooting". On the "evolution of hydration". Quite a few pensioners and not only pensioners growl loudly --- "they had to scribble on the bandera with machine guns on the Maidan" --- they loudly divert their souls with tirades. In the bazaars, especially in the departments of subsidies, social security ... I have not heard that someone in the SBU was dragged for this.
  17. OlegV
    OlegV 24 December 2015 15: 57
    +3
    .... From the point of view of Kiev propaganda, APU-the strongest army in Europe, which stopped the Russian aggression .....

    And that's not all..))))
    for example
  18. Mr shrek
    Mr shrek 24 December 2015 15: 59
    +3
    The most powerful army in geyrop? then why did her simple hard workers bend down at the very least? oh yes, there is a trace of Russian specials ...
    hit the dill "well done", got Debaltsevo, Ilovaisk and much more.
    It's only the beginning.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 24 December 2015 17: 16
      +2
      It is strong in terms of the number of military equipment and ammunition reserves and that’s all.
  19. Gray 43
    Gray 43 24 December 2015 16: 02
    +5
    Well, the author, squeezed out an article to compare the APU with an invincible SA, this is from the same series who fought on the Ukrainian front, if it were at least a parody of the army, or even a disgrace! The soldiers are forced to buy for themselves absolutely everything, from socks to thermal imagers, to the Soviet Army, during the war, they did not organize entertainment for tourists in the spirit of a safari.
  20. prawdawsegda
    prawdawsegda 24 December 2015 16: 03
    +8
    I am not ashamed of the Soviet Army! And the current ukrovoyaki and the citizens of Ukraine will soon begin to be shy and ashamed of their army and country! It’s written for them to be beaten either from the south or from the west or from the east. But only the east can promise them to be equal with their citizens. Mr. Khromchikhin, thanks to the SA, we lived for many years in the world, until we were betrayed by little people all our life sucking a party pacifier.
  21. epsilon571
    epsilon571 24 December 2015 16: 08
    +3
    Enough to carry this balance about Ukraine. The question should be this: either we recognize the Republic of Donbass, or forget about them and get curses on our heads! Perhaps then they will hate us from two opposite positions, and this will lead to the situation that we have in Syria.
  22. avg-mgn
    avg-mgn 24 December 2015 16: 10
    0
    Quote: Ami du peuple
    Quote: meriem1
    Interesting. If a shell flies into our territory ... Maybe We will be "scared"? And let's jam the firing points !!!

    You know, Ukrainian shells flew into our territory. And civilians were killed and houses were destroyed. Likely We (with a capital letter, huh?) Were frightened if there was no obvious response to such actions by the APU.


    Look at the maps of the hostilities of the past year, where are the soldiers of the Armed Forces and where are the DNI, and now think about whose shells it was. Now I realized that no one and no one was afraid and why they didn’t jam the firing points? Or do you think that VSUshniki themselves were winged? You need to think before you write. Lol
  23. kz0974
    kz0974 24 December 2015 16: 10
    +3
    The author seems to live on Mars.
  24. Al_oriso
    Al_oriso 24 December 2015 16: 16
    +2
    The Ukrainian army cannot be underestimated. The author of the article is trying to convince her of its complete failure. This is fraught. If they receive competent command, then there will be many problems.
    1. Belarus
      Belarus 24 December 2015 16: 27
      +2
      The question is that no matter what the technique, it poorly rides and shoots poorly and people die from it. The army of Ukraine is also dangerous because, as the author writes, the Ukrainian army is cannon fodder. there is no brain meat and it’s just allowed to slaughter and that’s all.
      And if as you write competent command they will receive, then given that this meat just stupidly climb on the rampage, then yes problems can occur.

      It’s better to overestimate the enemy and get ready than to be taken by surprise!
  25. avva2012
    avva2012 24 December 2015 16: 29
    +9
    Today, APU is the most Soviet army in the world. She has an extremely low level of training of command personnel, an ugly attitude to the rank and file, and general drunkenness. Moreover, the current Kiev regime has managed to surpass the Soviet one. The leaders of the USSR, unlike the Ukrainian, did not turn the war into a personal business, did not stoop to selling the bodies of dead soldiers to their relatives.
    And that the Soviet Army lost something? Korea, Vietnam (yes, limited, more equipment, but still), Hungary, Czechoslovakia (operations were carried out quickly and on a large scale, the opposing side did not achieve their goals), Angola, Mozambique (were there bad advisors?), Afghanistan (would not army, and did not carry out operations together with the Armed Forces of the DRA, finished off anyway). Author, did you serve in my army? He writes about the Army from the Ogonyok magazine and shouts of "soldier's mothers". Well, as for "personal business", this is for the politicians of the Russian Federation, under Yeltsin, during the war in Chechnya. Those, I think so, surpassed them in betrayal, greed, frostbite.
    The author, apparently, hates the USSR, that is, his country. Hiding behind general phrases, he is trying to present the Armed Forces of Ukraine as "garny zbrodniki", and apparently, if their own generals had not interfered with them, they would have reached Moscow. I am not exaggerating or distorting, hatred for the USSR army, it is equivalent, the same hatred for Russia.
  26. anfil
    anfil 24 December 2015 16: 38
    +4
    Can't fly?

    Ukraine’s aviation situation is much worse.


    Serial Pun "Steep dive", 325 ... episode the government of Ukrdina is bravely fighting the falling economy. Characters cheerful and courageous commander Pyotr Potroshenko, resourceful and resourceful Prime Minister Yaytsenyukh, "pretty" and imperturbable Minister of Finance Yaresko, cold-blooded and charming Interior Minister Avakov, as well as incomparable Suk @ shvili in the role of Odessa citizen Mishiko.)))

    Filming takes place in the central pavilion "404", do not miss the next episode.

  27. Linkin
    Linkin 24 December 2015 16: 41
    13 th
    oh don't tell my sneakers what miners? Aren't they the same strangers on vacation from the RF Armed Forces?
    1. Travian
      Travian 24 December 2015 21: 54
      +1
      but imagine that these from the RF Armed Forces will not be on "vacation", but by order of the commander-in-chief with the permission of the State Duma with full or partial mobilization ... and then, how will your sneakers laugh ??
      1. Horst78
        Horst78 25 December 2015 09: 14
        0
        Quote: Travian
        Travian RU Yesterday, 21: 54 ↑ New

        but imagine that these from the RF Armed Forces will not be on "vacation", but by order of the commander-in-chief with the permission of the State Duma with full or partial mobilization ... and then, how will your sneakers laugh ??

        They will not laugh, but very quickly run away.
  28. moskowit
    moskowit 24 December 2015 16: 41
    +2
    Interesting analysis. Objective data on losses. The motives and "political" alignment in Ukraine are correctly characterized. As for the comparison with the Soviet Army, the author, of course, got carried away, endowing the Ukrainian army with a fighting spirit akin to the Soviet Army. Count for yourself. People born in the mid-70s and later were already forming as citizens in completely different conditions. And what about the appeal of the birth of 1990-95, so in general in the world of revelry and theft ...
  29. vobels
    vobels 24 December 2015 16: 48
    0
    ".. Ukraine now has a fairly large military budget, but a significant part of it was originally allocated for theft .." And powerful corruption and stupid ignorance of leadership destroys not only the army, but also the people and the country.
  30. VIT101
    VIT101 24 December 2015 16: 56
    10
    "Today the Armed Forces of Ukraine is the most Soviet army in the world. It has an extremely low level of training of command personnel, an ugly attitude towards the rank and file, general drunkenness ..." (A. Khramchikhin)
    The author of this opus is a provocateur who most likely did not serve a day in the Soviet Army. If he served, then in the Arbat district. Hating everything Soviet, he insults everything that is connected with the SA. He understands that he is lying, but he does it quite deliberately, trying to more painfully prick SA veterans.
    By the way, for his information, the Ukrainian army is least like the Soviet. Structural transformations in the manner of NATO were carried out there 15 years ago.
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 24 December 2015 17: 19
      +2
      He, not a provocateur, is worse. I won’t write who is understandable without obscene language. You, my deepest respect for such words. hi
  31. Mercenary
    Mercenary 24 December 2015 16: 56
    +2
    Can the APU listen to the author and start a war against Geyropa? They are stronger than her and immediately go into it ?! laughing
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 24 December 2015 17: 13
      +1
      And she is in them. So they will love each other. fellow
  32. Jack93
    Jack93 24 December 2015 17: 42
    -4
    They are afraid of the APU armored tanks along with the Jewels, whom Lithuania will buy / la more than 200 units and for sure Poroshenko will try to get them out of Lithuania, since he doesn’t give them to Washington. Khan quilted jackets in the Donbass, along with Buryat special forces and Pskov divisions ... Although judging by the news, given how they thump all, they killed more people than from the conflict itself and it will be like that, they will crash into the very first pillar somewhere near Mariupol and then it turns out that Jewelin will appear in the hands of Shoigu)
    1. ML-334
      ML-334 24 December 2015 20: 08
      0
      You need to have a good reason to have a lot of money, in Baku, for no one knows why and somewhere to pull. Lithuanians can, because they are "brakes," but the lad is unlikely.
    2. Travian
      Travian 24 December 2015 21: 59
      +1
      How many tanks are there in the armada? our "cornets" do not hit badly. so let's go ahead - you will be met. dad lives in Minsk, and a monkey in Fashington.
    3. Skifotavr
      Skifotavr 28 December 2015 14: 07
      0
      Quote: Jack93
      They are afraid of the APU armored tanks along with the Jewels, whom Lithuania will buy / la more than 200 units and for sure Poroshenko will try to get them out of Lithuania, since he doesn’t give them to Washington. Khan quilted jackets in the Donbass, along with Buryat special forces and Pskov divisions ... Although judging by the news, given how they thump all, they killed more people than from the conflict itself and it will be like that, they will crash into the very first pillar somewhere near Mariupol and then it turns out that Jewelin will appear in the hands of Shoigu)

      Dill is only why these javelins ask that it hopes to sell them more expensively to the north wind laughing
  33. Cord
    Cord 24 December 2015 17: 42
    +8
    And the author himself served in the Soviet Army? With what does he compare her condition? I served from 1988 to 1990, ZakVO. The order of the service is field, almost constantly we went to field trips not just to training grounds, but to unfamiliar places, and our tasks were always practical - providing real communication, starting from local units and ending with communication between the districts and the General Staff. In the intervals between departures, we were on duty at the headquarters of the district. And this, for a minute, communication with Moscow, districts, abroad. The equipment was always 95 percent serviceable and we were always ready to perform the task. You can imagine the consequences of the departure of the transmitting knot, if the officer on duty or the commander of the General Staff could not contact the division in Akhalkalaki or the Kutaisi DShB? At best, "lip", at worst, disbat. Yes, we were not the best, yes, we booted yes, we slept at the posts, but we booted in moderation and not often, we slept lightly - we got to hell, and ALWAYS performed our task. It all depends on the command, if the "head" is rotten, then the part is appropriate ... Our brigade commander was a flint - he was both feared and respected, not only by soldiers but also by officers. And we served our Motherland and not an asshole who was put on a "kingdom" by direct enemies, not full-time oligarchs, for whom the army is a feeding trough and war is a way of making money. the main thing is that the SA differs from the Armed Forces of Ukraine - it was an honor to serve, we defended our country from an external enemy, and they are now protecting the top of power from their people. To the author's wish - see the record when these former "Soviet officers" were marching in formation at the Belbek airfield to break through and that these nits screamed. This is what the Soviet army was different - we had the Motherland behind us, and they had America.
    In my opinion, the author is just a provocateur, I wonder if he is present on the forum? Does he have a nickname?
    1. avva2012
      avva2012 24 December 2015 18: 05
      +1
      Do you think he is alone? And they get to the big stars (almost like in life).
    2. BABAY22
      BABAY22 24 December 2015 18: 55
      11
      Yeah. Theater of the absurd. Formation of Soviet officers under the red banner, shouting: "America is with us!"
      The highest measure of social protection is a too lenient punishment for these warriors, so to speak.
      It’s one thing when the Maydan jumps - everything is clear here. And here is just a system of traitors. If only they had a drop of conscience - they did not disgrace the banner of the regiment. Such a shame now can not be washed away.
  34. pvv113
    pvv113 24 December 2015 18: 01
    +7
    During the war in the Donbass, the Armed Forces suffered huge losses.

    wink
  35. Kibl
    Kibl 24 December 2015 18: 02
    +4
    The author needs to succumb to the gods and drive to the neck from the site. I posted a bunch of digits, prescribed some kind of nonsense about SA and what? In total, CO2 exhaust!
  36. Hammer
    Hammer 24 December 2015 18: 07
    +1
    Affftor, thanks for the funny bedtime story))
  37. SergeyZel
    SergeyZel 24 December 2015 18: 08
    +4
    Today, APU is the most Soviet army in the world. She has an extremely low level of training of command personnel, an ugly attitude to the rank and file, and general drunkenness. This is a citation.
    Well, you are a bastard, Alexander. And how I want people like you to see through the slot of the sight. The hand does not flinch, the parasite.
  38. Gormenghast
    Gormenghast 24 December 2015 18: 18
    +4
    In my opinion, the causes of the Ukrainian conflict are somewhat primitivized. According to the author, it turns out that there was no uprising in the LPR; it is the Donetsk oligarchs who rebelled; accordingly, the LDNR militia (this follows from the author’s messages) is rightly called terrorists and separatists.

    I do not agree. The oligarchs are present - visibly and invisibly, but it is wrong to declare their dismantling the cause of the uprising in the Donbas. A popular outrage against the junta took place. As, however, and fools on the Maidan-not all there were fascists and paid provocateurs; the part was just idealistic fools (such as the babyshka who folded an immortal expression about lace underpants laughing ).
  39. wild
    wild 24 December 2015 18: 32
    +3
    The author is a golem demagogue. The passage about the Donetsk oligarchs in the last outburst of Strelkov, Givi, Motorola, etc. MINUS.
  40. Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 24 December 2015 18: 38
    +3
    The main problem of the APU, however, is different. In Ukraine, there is simply no political subject who is not interested in words, but in fact interested in their restoration.

    The main problem of the Armed Forces of Ukraine is the lack of desire among the ordinary personnel to do something (even for themselves), and that of the officers and sergeants - the desire to order even the simplest necessary things prescribed in the charter and instructions.

    Recently, bmpd had a repost of an "evil Odessa citizen" about the situation in the DPD 137 obmp of the Naval Forces of Ukraine: barracks without windows, rusty pipes, unfinished repair work, tents as housing, 1 washstand, 1 shower and 4 points for the entire battalion.

    In the comments, the people were extremely surprised that the marines did not do anything at all during their time in the RPA, only endured hardships and hardships and begged for help from volunteers - instead of equipping the RPM with their own resources, even in the field version. Okay, to equip the field toilet ... but even the drainage ditches around the tents are not dug up! And the ordinary staff lies and complains that the tent is flooding ...
  41. Ruswolf
    Ruswolf 24 December 2015 19: 04
    0
    Well, the fact that the APU is the strongest in Europe - I probably agree with this! The EU Sun has a handful of drug and 3 / 14 wood. (everything is permitted by law) there are people in the Armed Forces of Ukraine, the second is replaced by alcoholics. And the drunken sea is hot (hence the bragging about the Navy) Flying (or flying) - that is, the Air Force compensate for the narcotics. Well, more crowds.

    Well this is for sarcasm.

    The article itself is more suitable for the European reader.

    And in the general topic, if you take into account that one of the important components of any army is strict discipline (from ordinary to marshal). Dedication! Willingness to carry out any tasks at any time .... That there is nothing to compare. Especially with the Armed Forces of the USSR and the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation
  42. tolancop
    tolancop 24 December 2015 20: 10
    +5
    I read the article favorably until I got to the point of "general drunkenness" in the SA ...
    Did you drink in CA? They drank that there. There was even an army proverb in Soviet times: "A Soviet officer should be clean-shaven and slightly drunk." Only drunkenness was not "indiscriminate" and did not prevent people who knew and loved it from doing their job. IMHO, a SPECIAL drinker is better than a stupid teetotaler. About the incompetent command, the author generally bent the wrong way ... Somewhere, the scumbags were in command, but, as a rule, on the contrary, knowledgeable people (I could give a lot of examples only on OWN side). The bestial attitude towards the rank and file. There was this, but not everywhere. I served in the SA emergency. They didn’t lick me and my life wasn’t sugar-free, but I had nothing to reproach my commanders for - they prepared me for war (a harsh, dirty and bloody matter), and not for shining in society.

    Probably, the author at one time was extremely unlucky to get into the service in the unit, which was commanded by mediocre algogolics and sadyugs ...
    1. Travian
      Travian 24 December 2015 22: 06
      +1
      Thank you for your kind word and understanding. For the Soviet officer.
    2. Ruswolf
      Ruswolf 25 December 2015 05: 13
      +2
      tolancop
      "A Soviet officer must be clean-shaven and slightly drunk." Only drunkenness was not "indiscriminate" and did not prevent people who knew and loved it from doing their job.

      Because they drank not for drinking, but for health and understanding!
      I served in the SA emergency. They didn’t lick me and my life wasn’t sugar-free, but I had nothing to reproach my commanders for - they prepared me for war (a harsh, dirty and bloody matter), and not for shining in society.

      That is why our male population, from 40 to 60, is the worst nightmare for NATO. This is precisely the gene pool of the country, which, without any electronics, new technology, can even walk to Berlin and reach the White House!
      The old logic "Where to get it? - Show military valor and ingenuity!" They brought up and taught in Suvorov. Yes, and examples beat from childhood - Three heroes! - Mind! Force! Cunning!
    3. avva2012
      avva2012 25 December 2015 06: 16
      +2
      Probably, the author at one time was extremely unlucky to get into the service in part Probably the author did not serve at all. The article contains stamps from perestroika times. Maybe friends told something, the same People of the Moscow Region. I, in general, served in the unit, "put out the light, throw a grenade." I don't remember about the general drunkenness among the officers. We drank, but, as usual, there was a training ground, exits. So, in these conditions, the soldiers did the same if they got something. But, God forbid, get caught.
      Drunkenness in Russia is exaggerated by our "well-wishers". They would have looked at themselves. On this occasion, I recall the US film, "The Crew", I think it was not an isolated case.
  43. persei
    persei 24 December 2015 20: 44
    0
    The Ukrainian army needs to be morally destroyed ... + the guys in the catacombs of Odessa make a nest ... and from there carry on "work" ... it's a pity that we can't help the old people in any way ...
  44. Trinity
    Trinity 24 December 2015 22: 12
    +1
    Khramchikhin cannot, in his articles, not kick or spit at the government, the State Duma, or the army. Behaves like a "zaslanets of Cossacks", from under "tishka yes bzdekhom".
  45. Former battalion commander
    Former battalion commander 24 December 2015 22: 23
    +4
    The article also, under the guise of objectivity, also contains the MOST LIBERAL DEPF, that we are already used to hearing from all Russian media about the Soviet Union and its leaders. The author clearly did not live in the Soviet Union and did not serve in the SA. He grabbed hackneyed stamps about everything Soviet and continues in the same vein. Article MINUS.
  46. Freeman
    Freeman 24 December 2015 23: 17
    0
    Briefly about the author of the article:
    https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Храмчихин,_Александр_Анато
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Freeman
      Freeman 25 December 2015 02: 14
      +1
      "Glukanula" the first part of the comment, I'll try to fix it

      Briefly about the author:
      https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Храмчихин Александр Анатольевич

      The author, of course, is still ... "a bad person", but let's discuss it on the merits.

      1. Today, the Armed Forces-the most Soviet army in the world.

      The author "slyly" omitted that the CA sample of the mid-70s and late 80s is "two big differences." If in the 70s the SA projected the power of the state almost all over the world, then in the late 80s it began to degrade along with the country. The Armed Forces of Ukraine and the Armed Forces of Russia arose on the wreckage of the SA, in the 90s the process of collapse intensified, in the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.
      Only if after the failure in the 1st Chechen in Russia some conclusions were drawn and some measures were taken, then the collapse in the Armed Forces continued.
      Significant changes in the RF Armed Forces began only after the banking crisis in Cyprus, when significant financial resources were lost and part of our "elite" did not realize that "they" would never become "equal partners" for the West. That money is better kept "at home" and have a powerful army to protect them.
      The rulers of Ukraine were not faced with such a task and the Armed Forces of Ukraine continued to degrade, "eating up" the Soviet legacy.

      2. The extremely low level of training of command personnel, an ugly attitude to the rank and file, and general drunkenness.

      Let us recall how the "officer corps" of the Armed Forces of Ukraine was formed. They were either those who remained "to serve until retirement", or those who "rushed" to serve in the Armed Forces "nezalezhnoy", because in Russia, "they did not have a career" because of their moral and professional qualities.

      3. On the other hand, the army serves primarily the country, not the regime. That is how they understood the situation in the Soviet army and were absolutely right.

      Here, neither add nor subtract. This is true for the "grassroots composition" of both the Armed Forces of Ukraine and the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation.
  47. Freeman
    Freeman 24 December 2015 23: 17
    0
    4. In addition, the most important advantages of the SA that the APU retained were the aforementioned readiness of people to fight and die, and in the most difficult conditions, which very often are created not so much by the enemy as their own command ...

    This proves once again that we and Ukrainians are two (with Belarusians three) parts of the same people.

    5. Fighting for the territorial integrity of Ukraine, first of all, local “quilted jackets”
    ... And the “volunteer battalions” sent to the Donbass along with the Armed Forces of Ukraine turned out, as one would expect, to be legitimate gangs, they are the real punishers.


    And this is our tragedy. On that front line there are people like us, only "poisoned" by propaganda and put before the harsh law of war - "Kill or you will be killed."

    "But according to new intelligence
    We fought ourselves. "

    / B.G./

    And the true "Natsiks" perform punitive and gendarme functions and do not rush to the embrasure.
  48. tezey
    tezey 25 December 2015 00: 27
    +1
    Today, APU is the most Soviet army in the world. She has an extremely low level of training of the commanding staff, an ugly attitude to the rank and file, rampant drunkenness. The author has no idea about the Soviet army. I served in the GSVG in 1970-1972. In the rocket brigade where I served there was an extremely high level of training for the entire staff. Both officers and soldiers. The task was carried out in any conditions literally on the machine. Studies and training took place regularly. By the way, the adversary was nearby and provided us with regular electronic suppression during the exercises, so we had to work far from in greenhouse conditions. There was no drunkenness at all. Of course there were cases, but they were punished mercilessly and harshly. The attitude to the rank and file was normal, without outrages, but also without liberalism. Discipline was at its best. It is impossible to consider the Armed Forces of the Soviet Union by any criteria. This is an army of a capitalist, nationalist, oligarchic state whose president declares that his country is at war with us. From this we must proceed - the Armed Forces of Ukraine is the army of the enemy.
    1. brisk
      brisk 25 December 2015 03: 20
      0
      Quote: Theseus
      The author has no idea about the Soviet Army. I served in the GSVG in 1970-1972. In the rocket brigade where I served there was an extremely high level of training for the entire staff. And officers and soldiers.


      But don’t you know that far from all were taken to the Group of Soviet Forces in Germany? Including those who wish. The most worthy were selected there. As well as in the Navy. Filling in the sheet sheets with questions and absentee checks subsequent do not remember? With sobering-up stations and drives, it was possible to get to the GSVG in the children's rooms of the police? And did such a person in the USSR really feel a lack? Well, this is already more extreme, and better they were not allowed into the GSVG. And the most worthy were then in the minority. And you would visit the garrisons in the hinterland of the USSR. In the Volga region, in Siberia, Central Asia, the Far East ... So it would probably have been horrified, after the GSVG --- and drunkenness, and theft, and urbanism (in the form of hazing and other hazing) were more than ... What, except not this way? So in 1970 - 1972 this was even smaller than in 1980 - 1982. The decomposition, although slowly, but increased.
  49. Stoler
    Stoler 25 December 2015 00: 45
    +2
    Where are the numbers from? Where did all this crap come from ?? How can you compare the USSR Army with this shit ?????
  50. The comment was deleted.