Military Review

The Washington Free Beacon: China has tested a new ICBM on a railroad car

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As is known, combat railway missile systems (BZHRK) with intercontinental ballistic missiles were built only in the Soviet Union and were in service with only domestic strategic missile forces. In other countries, primarily in the United States, attempts were made to develop such systems, but these projects were closed due to the complexity and lack of significant advantages over existing ones. weapons. According to some reports, a new attempt to develop BZHRK is currently being made by China. It became known that in early December, passed the first tests of this system.


The latest success of the Chinese missile train development project is reported by The Washington Free Beacon in the article by Bill Hertz “China Tests New ICBM from Railroad Car” (“China has tested a new ICBM on a railroad car”) published on December 21. The author of this article from his sources in intelligence structures managed to learn about the latest developments of the Chinese industry in the field of strategic weapons. It is reported that American intelligence officers learned about China’s testing of a promising missile complex based on a train.

At the very beginning of his article, B. Hertz notes that the missile system tested by China is capable of attacking targets throughout the United States. According to an unnamed source in the US military, December 5 was recorded the fact of throwing tests of the DF-41 rocket, conducted at one of the ranges of the western part of China. It is noted that so far very little information is available about the new Chinese project of the promising BZHRK.

The Washington Free Beacon: China has tested a new ICBM on a railroad car
Estimated appearance BZHRK rocket DF-41. Photo Free Beacon / Asian Arms Control Project


According to reports, a prototype missile complex was recently delivered to the Wuzhai test site (the symbol used by American intelligence), also known as the Taiyuan Cosmodrome in Shanxi Province. The existence of this site, as the declassified documents of the CIA say, has been known since 1982.

B. Hertz admits that the recent tests of the missile complex are an important milestone in stories Chinese defense industry. In addition, they show that China intends to strengthen its strategic nuclear forces not only with mobile ground-based missile systems, but also with similar rail-based systems. All this should seriously impede the process of detecting and tracking missile systems on duty.

The Pentagon has so far refused to comment on the latest Chinese developments. Free Beacon reports that the official representative of the Ministry of Defense, Bill Urban, did not comment on the situation. He noted that the defense ministry does not intend to comment on Chinese work in the development of new weapons, but is carefully following them.

The author of the American edition reminds that earlier images of a promising Chinese railway missile complex appeared in free access. These photographs demonstrated the DF-41 rocket, located on a lifting launcher, which, in turn, is mounted on the base of a railway car.

It is reported that the intercontinental ballistic missile DF-41 is currently the most perfect representative of its class, created by the Chinese industry. According to unnamed sources, on the eve of throwing tests on a railway launcher, a rocket of this type was used in full-fledged flight tests. It is known that the DF-41 has a range of up to 7500 miles (about 12,5 thousand km) and is equipped with a shared warhead with individual targeting units.

B. Hertz refers to the opinion of unnamed military experts who evaluate the very concept of BZHRK and its prospects. They believe that the main task of the emergence of such military equipment is to simplify the preservation of strategic nuclear forces when attacked by a potential enemy. Mobile-based missiles can be dispersed throughout the country and thus removed from under a preemptive strike, including promising means of so-called. fast global strike. The Pentagon plans to adopt advanced weapons that will allow strikes against any targets in all regions of the planet in a matter of minutes. The presence of mobile launchers will allow the Chinese armed forces to save some of the missiles from the pre-emptive strike of the enemy.

American intelligence believes that the finished serial version of the intercontinental DF-41 rocket will receive a split head with 10 nuclear warheads. Currently, Chinese ICBMs are equipped with monoblock warheads, which determines the specificity of the strategy for their use. The total ammunition of the ground component of China’s nuclear triad is estimated at 300 warheads. The adoption of the DF-41 missile will significantly increase the number of deployed warheads.

It is assumed that in its new project, China used some of the lessons gained from third countries. Thus, in the report of the program “The Arms Control Project in Asia” (Asian Arms Control Project) of Georgetown University, it is stated that the Chinese specialists in their project used technologies obtained from Ukraine. It was Ukrainian enterprises before the collapse of the Soviet Union that took an active part in creating the BZHRK with the SS-24 rocket (PT-XNUMHUTTH “Molodets”).

B. Hertz recalls that even in 2006, Chinese television was talking about a certain project to develop a combat railway missile system. In the plot of the state television channel demonstrated launchers, command systems, etc. equipment based on passenger cars disguised as passenger cars.


Satellite image of the site of the Taiyuan Cosmodrome with an experimental BZHRK launcher. Photo Free Beacon / Potomac Foundation


The report of the specialists of Georgetown University as evidence of the use of developments on the Soviet project, obtained from Ukraine, pointed out some technical features of the two BZHRK. Thus, the Chinese complex, like its Soviet predecessor, often referred to abroad as the Land nuclear submarine (“Land Nuclear Submarine”), uses a so-called system. cold start with the release of the rocket from the transport and launch container before turning on the main engines.

Information on Chinese plans for the development and construction of a developed railway network in the central part of the country was cited as additional evidence. Numerous spans and tunnels can be used to move BZHRK during combat duty and perform various maintenance operations.

The publication Free Beacon cites the opinion of Philip A. Karber, a military expert of the Potomac Foundation. He claims that not so long ago, the experts of this fund analyzed commercial satellite photographs and found one DF-41 rocket mounted on a special launch complex on one of them. If it really was a promising ICF DF-41, then it should carry a split head. The combination of high mobility, disguise for civilian compositions, the possibility of building protected service facilities and separable warheads makes BZhRK an extremely difficult goal to detect and track.

F. Carber, of relevance to the study of Georgetown University, notes that the existence of the Chinese project of a combat railway missile complex became known about four years ago. However, then such messages were not taken seriously. Since that time, information has appeared on the construction in the interests of the 2 of the Chinese Artillery Corps (the structure responsible for the operation and use of nuclear weapons) of the 2000 km of special railways, which can be used in the future "rocket trains".

A promising system of railways and tunnels will significantly expand China’s capabilities in relation to nuclear missile strikes against targets in the United States. It is possible to divert the trajectory of an ICBM flight from Alaska, where American bases are located with interceptor missiles that protect against attack. The experts also got access to the images of large tunnels, the dimensions of which allow simultaneously hiding up to three trains with special cars.

The first official statements about the existence of a promising intercontinental rocket DF-41 refer to August 2014. A spokesman for the Chinese military, Gen Yansheng, said the new project was being developed for the security of the state. In this case, the military does not consider any third countries as a potential enemy and targets for new missiles. Also, the representative of the Ministry of Defense of China touched on the topic of disguise. According to him, the mobility of missile complexes makes it extremely difficult to track them with the help of reconnaissance satellites.

Back in 2013, the Chinese military came to conclusions about the prospects for the American program of rapid global strike. The Chinese Ministry of Defense believes that such strike systems pose a great danger to Chinese strategic nuclear forces. This year a new report has been released by the All-Chinese People’s Representatives Committee on the security of the state. The authors of this document stressed the importance of the creation and deployment of new intercontinental ballistic missiles, which should be able to overcome the enemy’s missile defense and be a full-fledged deterrent protecting the country from the attack of a potential enemy.

According to some data, recalls B. Gertz, the Pentagon is currently considering the possibility of a symmetrical response to the Russian and Chinese mobile missile systems projects. To do this, American experts are exploring the possibility of creating mobile missile systems of various classes, based on automotive or railway equipment.

Also, the author of the publication Free Beacon refers to an expert in the field of Chinese military programs Rick Fisher. He claims that the Chinese military has long been interested in the subject of BZHRK. The Soviet SS-24 rocket was transported by a special train and could deliver ten warheads to a range up to 10 thousand km. The latest Chinese rocket DF-41 has similar characteristics. China has some experience in creating railway vehicles with high load-carrying characteristics, which can be useful in creating BZHRK.

According to R. Fisher, the similarity of SS-24 and DF-41 is not limited to only the general features of the appearance of the complexes. He believes that the Chinese ICBM, like the Soviet / Russian counterpart, uses the so-called. cold start with the release of the rocket from the container using a powder pressure accumulator. The specialist believes that the purpose of the recent tests was to verify this method of ejecting a rocket from the transport and launch container.


Presumably the car with the launcher. Photo Free Beacon / Asian Arms Control Project


Fisher recalls the benefits of a cold start. The release of the rocket with the inclusion of engines after leaving the transport and launch container makes less high demands on the design of the latter. Because of this, a similar launch method is preferable for advanced rocket technology.

The expert touched on the length of the Chinese railways. At the moment, the country, according to R. Fisher, has 74565 miles of railways, including 9942 miles high-speed. By the end of the decade, the total length of Chinese roads will increase to 170 thousand miles. Thus, promising Chinese BZHRK will be able to quickly disperse throughout the country, for which they can use both regular and express roads. The characteristics of the DF-41 missiles, in turn, will double the number of deployed warheads, as well as attack targets throughout the United States from anywhere in China.

The building up of the Chinese nuclear potential, according to R. Fisher, should prompt the American leadership to reconsider its views on strategic arms limitations. At present, reminds the expert, Moscow and Beijing are intensifying military-political and military-technical cooperation. Official Washington should take into account these circumstances, including the risk of combining Russian and Chinese efforts in the field of nuclear missile weapons. Such combined forces may prove to be a serious tool for putting pressure on the United States, for example, on the issue of Taiwan’s independence, which the Chinese leadership refuses to recognize.

B. Hertz reminds that Russia is currently also creating its new “rocket train”. The commander of the Strategic Missile Forces, Colonel-General Sergey Karakaev previously mentioned that the project (code name "Barguzin") will be ready for 2017 year. A few days ago, 17 December, he said that a preliminary draft of the project is already ready, and now preparations are underway to develop a complete set of necessary documentation.

The new Russian BZHRK should be based on some work on the old project created during the Soviet era. According to Russian media, the emergence of a new railroad missile system should be an asymmetric response to the so-called American program. fast global strike.

***

Various fragmentary information about the Chinese project BZHRK appeared over the past few years. Now, thanks to Bill Gertz's sources in intelligence organizations, it has become aware of testing a promising system. According to the latest data, 5 December, the Chinese experts conducted a flip test of the rocket (presumably) DF-41 on the launcher So far, as follows from recent reports, the Chinese industry is engaged in working out the process of ejecting a rocket from a transport and launch container.

In the future, we should expect full-fledged launches with the help of new launch systems and other tests, up to a full-fledged exit of the “rocket train” to the firing position with the subsequent attack of the training target and departure from the launch area. Apparently, it will take several years to carry out all the necessary work.

The author of The Washington Free Beacon rightly notes the positive qualities of railroad missile systems. Such equipment is capable of running on the existing railway network and waiting for an order to perform a launch. In this case, trains with special equipment and weapons have minimal differences from other trains, which contributes to their disguise. China’s railways, in theory, make it possible to “hide” a significant number of trains with missile weapons, and plans for developing the network will only increase its potential.

Specialists have already learned the main characteristics and features of the DF-41 rocket. According to open sources, this product will be able to attack targets at ranges up to 12,5 thousand km and deliver to them ten warheads of individual guidance. In combination with the ability to launch rockets from almost anywhere in China, such characteristics make DF-41 an extremely dangerous weapon for the enemy, capable of keeping almost half of the globe under control.

The timing of the completion of the new project and the adoption of the promising BZHRK in service is still in question. Of the last News it is clear that Chinese experts, using some Soviet developments, were able to develop a new weapon system, as well as bring it to the stages of the first tests of a launcher and a missile. Subsequent work may take at least several years, but the manifestation of certain problems can lead to a delay in the project.


The crew of the promising Chinese BZHRK. Photo Free Beacon / Asian Arms Control Project


Without claiming the ultimate truth, it can be assumed that the project to develop a Chinese BZHRK will be completed by the end of this decade. Soon after, the industry will master the serial construction of new equipment and begin to supply it to the troops. The 2 Artillery Corps, which is responsible for other land-based missile systems, will probably operate the new “missile trains”. Thus, a double increase in the number of deployed ammunition predicted by US experts could occur by the middle of the next decade.

It is noted that the emergence of Chinese BZHRK may be a kind of asymmetric response to the American program of rapid global strike. Thanks to the implementation of this project, China will be able to remove most of the deployed missiles with warheads from the impact of a potential enemy. From the point of view of the United States, such a move by official Beijing may look rather threatening. What the US response will be is not yet completely clear. Perhaps the American leadership will decide to strengthen its grouping of intelligence satellites, or to solve the search problem by other means. In addition, it is possible to concentrate ships with antimissiles in the estimated areas of the flight of Chinese ICBMs, which will keep the grouping of antimissiles on the flight path DF-41. Anyway, it is required to create some rather complex structure for searching and, if necessary, destroying Chinese BZHRK.

In the context of the new Chinese project, it is also worthwhile to touch on its possible role in a hypothetical confrontation between China and Russia. American experts believe that in the future, Moscow and Beijing may unite efforts to put joint pressure on Washington, but we cannot exclude the possibility of developments in the less optimistic scenario for Russia. It is not difficult to guess that a promising air defense missile system with a DF-41 rocket may pose a serious danger not only for the United States, but also for Russia and even for Europe. Known characteristics will allow this complex to “hold on sight” significant parts of Russian territory.

Countering such a threat will be fraught with serious difficulties. It will be necessary to make every effort to search for trains with rocket armament on patrol routes and to discover their bases or secret tunnels with equipment for maintenance. Given the characteristics of the existing grouping of reconnaissance satellites, the solution of such a task can be quite difficult. How exactly this problem will be solved - time will show.

According to recent reports, the Chinese industry is actively engaged in the creation of a promising strategic weapons system with a number of characteristic features. The exact characteristics of this system and the time it takes to complete the work are still unknown, but even now foreign specialists and military leaders have a cause for concern. As the article by B. Gertz in The Washington Free Beacon and the expert opinions cited in it show, the DF-41 rocket and the railway complex to launch it, even without leaving the testing stage, can influence the plans of many states.


Article "China Tests New ICBM from Railroad Car":
http://freebeacon.com/national-security/china-tests-new-icbm-from-railroad-car/
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  1. Gans1234
    Gans1234 24 December 2015 07: 08 New
    +9
    90 could not do without military espionage and theft of our technology, how to drink
    1. bandabas
      bandabas 24 December 2015 08: 42 New
      +5
      Есть такая пословица-"Под лежачий камень вода не течет". К китайцам она не относится де-факто.
    2. Gorinich
      Gorinich 24 December 2015 09: 29 New
      -4
      Who cares? Today, in fact, China has caught up with and surpassed the USSR in most technologies. Another five years and will not be considered with Russia at all.
      1. Boos
        Boos 24 December 2015 15: 28 New
        +5
        В чем вас никто не сможет опровергнуть,так это в том, что Китайское правительство эффективнее и последовательнее в своих деяниях для самого Китая в отличии от "нашего".
        Quote: Gorinich
        Who cares? Today, in fact, China has caught up with and surpassed the USSR in most technologies. Another five years and will not be considered with Russia at all.
    3. Red_Hamer
      Red_Hamer 24 December 2015 13: 40 New
      +8
      боюсь, тут даже не кражи , а "свои" же в 90-е документацию за бесценок слили
    4. Civil
      Civil 24 December 2015 20: 52 New
      +2
      Quote: Gans1234
      90 could not do without military espionage and theft of our technology, how to drink

      Ukrainians-sold, and for a penny.
      1. Saburov
        Saburov 25 December 2015 00: 59 New
        0
        Let's not get ahead of ourselves, when there is at least some reliable information, then we’ll give an appropriate assessment ... In general, by and by, the BZHRK is quite complicated technologically and this stuffing may well turn out to be a zilch, a specially created bravado of China. with Tavkr Varyag1. They finished building it, but what's the point? Its combat potential fell by two, if not three. Missile weapons (for example, on the Tavkr Kuznetsov P-700 Granite) air defense systems with a range of only 6 km, instead of 6 autocannons on Kuznetsovo, on the Chinese are 3 Type 1130 autocannons , there is no radio-electronic warfare complex, half of the radar weapons are missing (half of the radars are full-size mock-ups), the maximum aviation group is half as much, and much more. So they could just finish building, but no more than that, so it’s just dust in the eyes and bragging (the Chinese love this business). As a result of the work, the Chinese received an aircraft carrier with considerably weakened weapon systems. In fact, a ship can only defend itself from the attack of a not very large and lightly armed group of ships. And this applies not only to TAVKR, if China still cannot copy the AL-31f engine that was developed in the USSR in 70x or raise the airframe resource of its aircraft to the level of Soviet aircraft 70-80x, the same applies to China’s rocket technology ... just for complex military products, you need a technological reserve and a way that China has never had, and even more so its stages, because this kind of experience is not sold on the market, since it makes billions and no one in its right mind will sell it .
    5. The comment was deleted.
  2. Magic archer
    Magic archer 24 December 2015 07: 21 New
    +3
    The states, at one time, also tried to create their own bjrk, but nothing came of it. And how then they demanded the destruction of Molodets from our grief of politicians and eventually got their way! I remember how the American general told in an interview about our complex.
    I won’t say it verbatim but it sounded like this — the Russians always knew how to surprise, but it was the BZhR that confused our intelligence! If we can still follow other delivery vehicles, how can we keep track of a rocket train that looks like a civilian !?
    1. Amurets
      Amurets 24 December 2015 07: 43 New
      10
      Не надо говорить,то что у всех на слуху но толком никто ничего не знает.Так вот есть книга В.С.Михайлова "Стратегический Молодец",и там есть фотографии и причины почему американцы не стали принимать БЖРК на вооружение.
      Quote: Gans1234
      90 could not do without military espionage and theft of our technology, how to drink

      Managed! Ukrainians themselves sold the drawings and technologies to the Chinese. And as if some of the equipment didn’t leave for China? Former director of Yuzhmash, and then President of Ukraine Kuchma was aware of this and as if he himself was not involved in the leakage of these materials.
      1. Wheel
        Wheel 24 December 2015 15: 37 New
        +1
        Quote: Amurets
        there are photos and reasons why the Americans did not take the BZHRK into service.

        The reason that the Americans did not take their BZHRK into service is simple: there was nothing to accept.
      2. andrewkor
        andrewkor 24 December 2015 15: 56 New
        0
        Already good, not the Yankees.
    2. Belousov
      Belousov 24 December 2015 07: 50 New
      +6
      The states are still watching even the last complex handed over to the museum. In the late 90s he was sent for repairs, so they immediately aroused alarm over the puddle and began to make complaints.
    3. Belousov
      Belousov 24 December 2015 07: 50 New
      0
      The states are still watching even the last complex handed over to the museum. In the late 90s he was sent for repairs, so they immediately aroused alarm over the puddle and began to make complaints.
    4. 16112014nk
      16112014nk 24 December 2015 11: 17 New
      0
      Quote: Magic Archer
      If we can still follow other delivery vehicles, then how can we keep track of a rocket train that looks like a civilian !?

      Во времена ЕБНа, по его распоряжению, американским "партнёрам" предоставили возможность снять все характеристики движения БЖРК(скорость, маршрут, вибрации и т. п.). После такого предательства, наблюдать за передвижением БЖРК со спутника не представляет никакой сложности. Станции GPS, построенные на территории России, позволяли это сделать. Кстати, что то не слышно Рогозина, грозившего демонтировать эти станции.
      1. Wheel
        Wheel 24 December 2015 15: 46 New
        +1
        Quote: 16112014nk
        Во времена ЕБНа, по его распоряжению, американским "партнёрам" предоставили возможность снять все характеристики движения БЖРК(скорость, маршрут, вибрации и т. п.). После такого предательства, наблюдать за передвижением БЖРК со спутника не представляет никакой сложности. Станции GPS, построенные на территории России, позволяли это сделать.

        Crap!
        What kind of legends have not been invented ...
        1. 16112014nk
          16112014nk 24 December 2015 18: 49 New
          +2
          Об этом рассказал где то год назад на "ВО" начальник вооружения ВС РФ (1994-2000)генерал-полковник Ситнов А.П. Не думаю, что он любитель придумывать легенды.
  3. dsm100
    dsm100 24 December 2015 08: 20 New
    +6
    We all cut our BZHRK and clapped our hands. Yes, they cut it so that there was no documentation left to resume production. They used to be produced by the Tver Carriage Works. And there are no technical specialists capable of doing anything in the shortest possible time.
    1. Amurets
      Amurets 24 December 2015 09: 38 New
      +2
      Quote: dsm100
      They used to be produced by the Tver Carriage Works.

      Производил не один Тверской вагоностроительный,возводили десятки заводов.И Брянский машиностроительный,и Арсенал,и Южмаш.Это только основные заводы.В том что потеряли кадры и документацию,да вы правы.И я писал выше что не только американцы,но и китайцы интересовались у работников Южмаша документацией на вагоны- пусковые,на ряд технологий производства ракет,на системы пуска ракет Р-39 и РТ-23 так как "Холодный или миномётный старт" впервые появился на ракетах Р-39 для АПЛ Тайфун или Акула.
    2. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 24 December 2015 12: 01 New
      +1
      Quote: dsm100
      We all cut our BZHRK and clapped our hands. Yes, they cut it so that there was no documentation left to resume production. They used to be produced by the Tver Carriage Works. And there are no technical specialists capable of doing anything in the shortest possible time.

      Resume production of what? Wagons? For the missile of that BZHRK needs the now-dead Yuzhmash.
  4. Burivad
    Burivad 24 December 2015 08: 57 New
    -3
    Well, they will make such a train. Intelligence beacons will be hung on him and they will be tracked. They also learn about secret entrances. Or not?)
  5. Evgeniy667b
    Evgeniy667b 24 December 2015 09: 07 New
    0
    Well noticed dsm 100. Now we also continue to do stupid things, selling weapons. Do not replace candy wrappers with real equipment, which has expended labor, time and resources. So Russia wants to be naked ...
    And how many slammers! -Proving that without a sale we are nobody and there is no way to call us. There is a massive craziness of the dollar zombies. If you don’t stop, the end is just around the corner.
    1. Dewa1s
      Dewa1s 24 December 2015 12: 05 New
      +3
      Do not replace candy wrappers with real equipment, which has expended labor, time and resources.

      The USSR riveted 3-4 tanks a day starting from the seventies at least and ending with its collapse. Now the fields are rotting tens of thousands machines that no one has ever needed. Each of them devoured its share of time, labor and resources.
      Well, what the hell are they good for? Saved these tanks of the USSR from collapse? In one such tank of material and labor for a dozen Lada, if Cho, and he just stands and rot, and nichrome can not be done about it.
      History teaches nothing, huh? But even fools should learn from their mistakes
      1. kugelblitz
        kugelblitz 24 December 2015 20: 22 New
        +1
        Thanks to these unnecessary tanks, you are not a raw material for lampshades. And here it will not be up to the Lada. wassat
        1. Dewa1s
          Dewa1s 25 December 2015 12: 10 New
          +1
          Thanks to our nuclear triad, I am not a raw material for lampshades, for which I bow to her. Guaranteed to receive unacceptably high damage from a skirmish with Russia cools the hot much better than tens of thousands of rusting tanks.
      2. Captain nemo
        Captain nemo 24 December 2015 22: 57 New
        0
        Quote: Dewa1s
        Well, what the hell are they good for? Saved these tanks of the USSR from collapse? In one such tank of material and labor for a dozen Lada, if Cho, and he just stands and rot, and nichrome can not be done about it.

        Ну ради любимой России, почему бы и не пожертвовать СССР что бы России в конце то концов на конец то наступила заслуживающая ей жизнь. А то её бедную все грабили, грабили, грабили, и вот нашёлся таки гений в лице Б Н Ельцина который как и Ленин в 1917г также смело и дерзко сказал своим угнетателям - "Хватит грабить мудрый народ России, Вы все кто были раньше негодяи, и только я один из вас останусь с горестным народом России вместе, но при условии что мой правоприемник не будет пересматривать итоги приватизации, как и СССР итоги 2й мировой".
      3. Evgeniy667b
        Evgeniy667b 25 December 2015 06: 24 New
        +2
        Dewa1s These tanks fulfilled their role! They were a sobering factor for the same China! They can still play a role. In the United States, such equipment is retained, packaged in film. I sat down, went. We have a different mentality. There is a technique, it is necessary to climb, something to unscrew. I saw how the Tu-16 regiment slaughtered barbarism! And the USSR died at the hands of traitors. There are enough of them now, and psychology in people is all tied to the loot. As for the new technology, we have its minuscule, which is not enough to repel full-blown aggression. With tanks, too, not everything is clear. UVZ will go bankrupt and we are left without a new Armata, T-90. So you have to use the legacy of the USSR.
        1. Dewa1s
          Dewa1s 25 December 2015 12: 14 New
          0
          China has an army larger than our population, and even throwing what we have into the Far East is an extremely non-trivial task.
          So China is cooled not by tanks, but by nuclear shells, which deeply do not care how many people there are in China. The more they throw at us, the more they die.

          Without UVZ you don’t even reanimate this junk, so if it is covered for some reason, throw a grenade out of the carcasses.
  6. serezhasoldatow
    serezhasoldatow 24 December 2015 09: 29 New
    +1
    I wonder how many dollars received money those who leaked the Chinese to our RBC. Gorbachev-Nobel, and these Christ sellers?
    1. Amurets
      Amurets 24 December 2015 15: 30 New
      0
      Quote: serezhasoldatow
      I wonder how many dollars received money those who leaked the Chinese to our RBC. Gorbachev-Nobel, and these Christ sellers?

      Kuchma and Kolomoisky know, but are silent.
      Quote: Alexey RA
      Resume production of what? Wagons? For the missile of that BZHRK needs the now-dead Yuzhmash.

      Ракеты может поставить Воткинский завод.В принципе все современные ракеты меньше по габаритам и весу чем РТ-23УТТХ на пример "Булава" и "Ярс".Смотрите книгу Первов.Межконтинентальные баллистические ракеты СССР и России, и сайт ракетная техника.
  7. doework
    doework 24 December 2015 09: 35 New
    +2
    Well done Chinese! For 30 years we have done such a job .. I never cease to be surprised! And Ukrainians - in their repertoire ... poured over 30 pieces of silver that has been worked out by the best teams in decades. Well, there’s no need to talk about Gorbi:
    What a blue sky
    We are not supporters of robbery:
    A fool not need a knife,
    With three boxes you lie to him
    And do with it what you want!
  8. ARES623
    ARES623 24 December 2015 09: 56 New
    +4
    Quote: BurIvaD
    Well, they will make such a train. Intelligence beacons will be hung on him and they will be tracked. They also learn about secret entrances. Or not?)

    А контрразведка перевесит эти маячки на пустые близнецы и .... В любом случае спокойно спать уже будет невозможно. Особенно США. Потому как именно у них стратегия применения ЯО рассчитана на превентивное устранение угрозы ответного удара. Только США стремятся силой подавить чужие интересы, не пытаясь договариваться на равных. Китай достаточно продуманно строит свои силы, используя чужие наработки. Так вот, в этом смысле утечка информации по "Статус 6", явно не пройдет мимо Китая. Мы наверняка еще и об этой копии услышим. Возможно, таким способом скоро добьемся большей сговорчивости США. Если все побережье США , и тихоокеанское, и атлантическое, обложат ядерными "яйцами", то ни флот, ни ПРО, ни ИДЖИС не смогут спасти их от "большого смыва".
    А то, что порезали "Молодца", может и к лучшему. "Баргузин" будет менее заметен, т.к. по массо-габаритным параметрам его вполне возможно запихнуть в стандартные размеры подвижного состава. Да и "Калибры" морского базирования неплохо бы себя чувствовали на ж\д путях европейской части России.
  9. podgornovea
    podgornovea 24 December 2015 10: 38 New
    +2
    БЖРК хорошая идея! Очень хорошо сочетаються с РПКСН, подводные лодки более скрытные но очень дорогие, у БЖРК со скрытностью похуже, зато гоняют по своей территории "под присмотром", и по цене не сравнить с атомной подводной лодкой.
  10. chunga-changa
    chunga-changa 24 December 2015 11: 42 New
    +1
    Наши такой же поезд отложили на два года, "на этапе проектирования". Как-то розогину похвалится особо нечем, абсолютно все программы по развитию завалил.
    1. ARES623
      ARES623 24 December 2015 12: 38 New
      +2
      Quote: chunga-changa
      Наши такой же поезд отложили на два года, "на этапе проектирования". Как-то розогину похвалится особо нечем, абсолютно все программы по развитию завалил.

      При чем тут Рогозин? Если денег нет, то приходится выбирать приоритетные направления. И "Статус" в данном случае более привлекателен отсутствием против него "противоядия". А бесплатно, или если точнее выразиться - очень экономно, мог работать только ИВС+ЛПБ. Но равноценных им сегодня нет. Да время не то.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. gjv
        gjv 25 December 2015 09: 17 New
        0
        Quote: ARES623
        If there is no money, then you have to choose priority areas.

        Liquidation and disposal of technological units BZHRK, only 3 pieces.
        Order No. 0173100007012000161, 17.07.2012/7/123, 600 XNUMX XNUMX rubles.
        Disposal of laboratory equipment for testing ionizing devices and sources of ionizing radiation from the BZHRK, only 10 items.
        Purchase No. 0173100007014000032, 11.04.2014/7/280, 600 XNUMX XNUMX rubles.
        Purchase No. 0173100007014000121, 22.07.2014/7/280, 600 XNUMX XNUMX rubles.
        The elimination continues. Apparently so outdated equipment. request
    2. Amurets
      Amurets 24 December 2015 15: 48 New
      0
      Quote: chunga-changa
      Наши такой же поезд отложили на два года, "на этапе проектирования"

      Ответьте на простые вопросы?Зачем он нужен?Ради приоритета?Здесь прозвучала,вроде в шутку,здравая мысль что прикрепят маячок и буду отслеживать.Будут.Приведу пример.Я работал на Ж.Д.30 апреля,у нас на станции,произошло ЧП с вагонами,перевозившими спецгруз.Погибли 2 бойца из дивизии ВВ,не знаю какой,которые охраняли эти вагоны.1мая "Голос Америки" выразил соболезнования родственникам погибших солдат.А вы хотите спрятать спецпоезд.Гораздо легче и надёжнее спрятать пусковые установки на автомобильном шасси.Они не привязаны к Ж.Д. колее.И ради интереса поинтересуйтесь действиями Ж.Д.артиллерии под Ленинградом в годы ВОВ.
      1. chunga-changa
        chunga-changa 24 December 2015 23: 29 New
        0
        As for the priorities, I do not know, in my opinion it has been known for twenty years. Why is it needed. The speed of movement of an automobile PU is lower than w / d, daily mileage is much less. Ability to disguise on large railway nodes above many times. In an endangered period, after entering the mains, tracking steam locomotives is much harder than typical cars. Beacons are easily jammed, but that's not the point. The main dramatic increase in survival in the first day before the conflict.
        About design. There is a rocket, there is experience in manufacturing a train, there is experience in the day-to-day operation of the complex, the pros and cons of solutions are known. Still alive are the people who developed, finished, manufactured and operated these trains, they can tell. How can such data get stuck at the design stage? There are only two options, they don’t give money at all, a direct ban on design. Who manages the money and gives orders? Bu..ra..Rogozin.
  11. iouris
    iouris 24 December 2015 11: 48 New
    +1
    This is the result of the collapse of the USSR and the formation of Anti-Russia. We will learn who else and what technologies we got in the next series.
  12. vnord
    vnord 24 December 2015 12: 34 New
    +1
    Quote: Gans1234
    90 could not do without military espionage and theft of our technology, how to drink

    Why is it easier to buy.
  13. shadow
    shadow 24 December 2015 12: 56 New
    0
    And where did you get the idea that this is not just another duck, so that once again you wouldn’t make a difference. I do not think that the Chinese were smarter than the Americans. And if espionage could not have been avoided, then in the USA they also already at least tried to develop this project, and only one lyalya and nothing more.
  14. Raider
    Raider 24 December 2015 13: 45 New
    +2
    А если на них разместить крылатые ракеты? Ведь скрытый комплекс может подойти максимально близко к границе, как корабли Каспийской флотилии. Такой поезд является жд кораблем - С Запад на Восток, С Севера на Юг. Быстрая переброска, приемлемые условия для работы экипажа, возможность работы с неподготовленных площадок, скрытность, хорошая скорость передвижения. "Искандер" на рельсах? Или "Калибр"? Где напряженность - туда вагоны ближе. Нет необходимости - передвинул. ИМХО.
    1. shans2
      shans2 24 December 2015 14: 03 New
      +1
      the club so exists in shipping containers.
      1. Amurets
        Amurets 24 December 2015 15: 57 New
        0
        Quote: shans2
        the club so exists in shipping containers.

        So far, only one exhibition option, although the idea is sound. These data were brought to me here on the forum.
    2. TOR2
      TOR2 24 December 2015 20: 12 New
      +1
      Quote: Raider
      And if you place cruise missiles on them? After all, a hidden complex can come as close to the border as ships

      Different types of BZHRK will be needed. Not only with cruise missiles such as electronic warfare and air defense systems.
      Quote: shans2
      club with so exists in shipping containers

      In addition to the pros, such a system also has disadvantages. He does not know how to divert the contact network. And if necessary, recharge it also quickly does not work.
      Что касается китайцев, то с большой долей вероятности на Южмаше они чем то поживились. Вопрос в том, что не всё делалось на Южмаше, а значит у китайцев"картина" не полная.
  15. fzr1000
    fzr1000 24 December 2015 16: 09 New
    0
    Yeah, the current Yuzhmash, like all the landless ones, will give the last cowards for imported papers. This is at the cellular level.
  16. bravo-fab
    bravo-fab 24 December 2015 20: 51 New
    0
    The Chinese themselves did not invent anything, and they could only take such complex technology from Russia.
  17. Balagan
    Balagan 24 December 2015 21: 15 New
    0
    Steal - not steal, no longer a question. They have this crap and this must be taken into account and come up with how to track it.
  18. Yak28
    Yak28 24 December 2015 21: 19 New
    0
    It is interesting that there is such a military equipment in Russia that the Americans did not fall into the hands of in the 90s, thanks to the Warsaw Pact countries, in which almost all the samples of the USSR military equipment remained. The documentation of the remaining samples of the military equipment was probably handed over or sold by traitors to everyone, including the USA and China
    1. Captain nemo
      Captain nemo 24 December 2015 23: 02 New
      0
      Yes figs with her with this documentation, for that we had a bunch of friends in eastern Europe who wished us clean and bright alliances, and this is really not a little, even if it threatened us with deception / self-deception.
  19. Captain nemo
    Captain nemo 24 December 2015 23: 06 New
    +1
    Minus the article, because neither in the article itself, nor during its discussion did anyone raise the issue of the performance characteristics of the TsZh Russia’s BZHRK gauge 1524mm, and the Euro-American-Chinese 1435mm, and it was precisely because of this that America rolled up its BZHRK-1435mm.
    Well, it so happened that by their standards for the dimensions of the US Railways, which were more modest than those of the USSR, they were not able to enter their missiles on the railway platforms of the USA.
    China may bypasses them (the USA) in some ways, but still the prospect is at a 1520 mm gauge, well, if you just really want to, then the rocket flight from the 1520 mm gauge will not be 12.5 thousand km, but somewhere like 5 000 km or less.
    1. Amurets
      Amurets 25 December 2015 01: 17 New
      0
      Здесь вы не совсем правы!На тех путях где планировалось применять БЖРК укладывались рельсы Р-75 и Р-80 на щебёночном балласте с нагрузкой от оси на рельсы 25тонн.У американцев частные ЖД и насколько мне и известно нагрузки от оси на рельсы у них, на большинстве дорог,находятся в диапазоне 20-22 тонны.Но эти данные могут быть и устаревшими.А теперь пересчитайте массу пусковой на 8-мь осей и получите искомые 25-ть тонн на рельсы.Данные по американским ЖД взяты из книги "Энциклопедии американских ЖД.Сам я проработал локомотивном депо 10,5 лет на Транссибе,поэтому знаю о чём пишу.С начала 80-х годов 20-го века по всему главному ходу Трассиба меняли недавно уложенные рельсы Р-65 на Р-75.
  20. CRASH
    CRASH 25 December 2015 00: 05 New
    +1
    No one could repeat our train! This is betrayal at the top!
  21. ARES623
    ARES623 25 December 2015 19: 06 New
    +1
    Quote: Amurets
    Here you’re not quite right! On the routes where it was planned to use BZHRK, the R-75 and P-80 rails were laid on gravel ballast with an axle load of 25 tons on the rail. Americans have private railway and, as far as I know, axle loads on the rails, on most roads, in the range of 20-22 tons. But this data may be outdated

    Railways in the United States are very diverse in condition, structure and other parameters. The bulk of the tracks are designed for a load of 28 tons per axle; modernization is currently underway with an increase in load to 30 tons. The biggest problem is the many owners with whom it is difficult to regulate the logistics of BRD (in any case, in the opinion of the US military, this was a serious obstacle)
  22. 19001900
    19001900 25 December 2015 21: 07 New
    +1
    The main advantage of the BZHRD systems is the stealth and speed of movement, and now it will not be so simple with both of them. It is not clear under what types of trains (type of wagon for the purpose) to mask them earlier these were refrigerated trains. The standard refrigerator section included several wagons (it seems up to 6 wagons) of refrigerators and a wagon diesel power station (the staff also lived in it), longer trains were composed of several sections. This is an almost ideal model for camouflaging several wagons directly with missiles and wagon control and accommodation personnel. At this time, there are almost no refrigerated trains left; many depots involved in their repair are liquidated. The choice remains either freight trains or passenger. But there and there are problems. For freight, this is the length of standard semi-cars and covered cars, which is 12-15m (without automatic couplers). There are also longer ones up to 20m, but these are mainly tanks and open platforms. Passenger cars have a length of about 20 m (without coupler and buffer sets) the same as refrigerated cars, it would seem IT BUT. But all passenger trains move according to a schedule, they are actually compiled 2 times a year (summer and winter schedules), and besides, they are all equipped with the GLONAS system and are tracked in real time. In fact, on the FPK website you can find out the position of any composition. So the appearance of the passenger train moving outside the schedule that does not stop at the stations and does not appear in the system will immediately attract attention. Of course it would be interesting to disguise by analogy with Club-K, but the length of a 40-foot container is only 12m.
  23. Sergey956
    Sergey956 4 March 2016 19: 18 New
    0
    The USA will never create similar railway-based complexes, the gut is thin. They can only threaten with the help of Europe. But China is not Ukraine, jumping to China is life-threatening.
  24. fitter71
    fitter71 22 March 2016 22: 48 New
    0
    Quote: Alexey RA
    Resume production of what? Wagons?

    не поверите - но долгое время проблема была как раз в вагонах а не в ракетах... помимо усиленных вагонных тележек и осей (о чём выше уже написали) понадобилось много чего ещё - ведь при миномётном старте запускают в полёт не пару десятков килограмм а несколько десятков тонн. просто прикиньте - какие нагрузки при старте будут на вагон ("пусковую установку")? нет батенька, тут не всё так просто :)
    article of course +, but still a lot of water. and there is little concrete data ...