Military Review

Where does education go? Russian lawmakers propose replacing or "improving" the exam by IQ tests

219
The other day, an appeal was sent to the Ministry of Education and Science of the Russian Federation from a representative of the legislative body of relativity innovations in the system of control of students' knowledge and skills (as they say now, competencies) with a view to enrolling in a higher educational institution. MP Mikhail Serdyuk, representing the Just Russia faction in the State Duma of the Russian Federation, states that the Unified State Exam should not remain the only control system that applies to student competences. According to MP Serdyuk, representing in the lower house of voters from the Khanty-Mansiysk Autonomous Okrug, Russian schoolchildren should also be checked for IQ.


Newspaper "News" leads the statement of the State Duma deputy
The talent of Russian children, regardless of geography of residence, family income or social status of parents, is beyond doubt. However, for a full disclosure and further development of innate abilities a systematic assessment approach is needed. In addition, unlike standard test assignments, which still remain the only, but long-lost objective measure of student performance, there is a need for differentiated tests aimed at a comprehensive analysis of their capabilities.


Where does education go? Russian lawmakers propose replacing or "improving" the exam by IQ tests


As can be seen from the statement, Mikhail Serdiuk believes that the system of knowledge testing has long since lost objectivity, but at the same time he suggests (at least now) not to refuse such a system, but also to check a student’s IQ on it. At the same time, it is argued that IQ tests over time can become the basis of the very test of students' knowledge and skills, and also a control innovation instead of the so-called unified state exam.

The modern Unified State Examination has really managed to turn into a system that has nothing to do with the actual assessment of a student’s competencies in a particular subject of the school curriculum. The unified state examination is a complex, frankly, it is not always clear by what criteria of the chosen tasks, which is aimed at a unified assessment of the possibility of a student entering a university. And more precisely, it’s not even for an assessment, but for the possibility of adjusting such an assessment to the required threshold.

In other words, the EGE was an unequal replacement for the entrance exams and became no substitute for the final (school) exams. Perhaps, only representatives of the Ministry of Education and Science are ready to argue that the Unified State Exam actually tests a complex of knowledge and skills obtained at school by students, and that the Unified State Exam is designed so that it motivates students to study a particular academic subject in depth. And, perhaps, only the Ministry of Education and Science is ready to prove the unprovable thesis that within the framework of the school curriculum, you can prepare for the same unified state exam so that you can get the maximum number of points. For all the others, the fact that the ministry of an effective manager, Dmitry Livanov, is held only because the scoring results of this “exam” can be used to report on “progress” in the Russian education system, has long ceased to be a secret. Each year, when you pass the indicators, you understand, they grow, but university professors look at these figures in perplexity and at applicants, at applicants, then at figures ... then again at applicants, and they do not understand at the expense of whom the "indicators" grew , and in what region remained those “geeks” who introduced new bonuses to the Ministry of Information ...

Against this background, representatives of the legislative authority of the country propose to walk even in terms of the IQ level of Russian schoolchildren. Like, a large IQ indicator - you need to take to the university, you must give way. Well, if only a small one - at once “hello to the family” - let them figure out where to attach the child with the available indicator of his IQ.

Frankly, it is not entirely clear, why did such an initiative suddenly appear in terms of controlling the notorious competences? After all, even the authors of the IQ tests themselves say that such tests are more suitable for identifying the level of giftedness of children, which may be completely unrelated to the fact that these children pass as part of the school curriculum. Moreover, the scientists who studied the IQ indices of certain people derived a whole formula that clarifies that the talent factor depends to a large extent on the innate parameters - on heredity. In addition, the IQ is affected by the environment and the level of nutrition. That is, the background of the intellect indicator is such that children from wealthy and successful families are initially more likely to show better results than children from the socially unprotected. And despite the fact that high IQ does not guarantee at all that a person who possesses it, will be able (or will want) to realize himself in this or that industry - engineering, production activity, etc.

So, if we assume that the Ministry of Education and Science will suddenly support the parliamentary initiative, then, frankly, it is not entirely clear how the verification of a person’s intellectuality level will be compared with the knowledge that he received during his schooling? Well, for example, is it possible to say that if a student answers IQ test questions? “What number should be inserted instead of a line: 2 5 8 11 _?” Or “Insert the next letter in the series A D A E A Z A L A _”, then his knowledge of mathematics and the Russian language is enough to start studying at a university in a specialty, say, an aircraft design engineer or a pediatrician?

What specifically of the school curriculum is able to check this question from the same test: Which numbered figure should occupy the free space:


Well, or a question that sounds like this:
“Find a superfluous city name - Canberra, Washington, London, Paris, New York, Berlin, Ottawa”

I suspect that the correct answer - New York - as a city, unlike all others, does not have the status of the capital. But this is the case if you look at the question from a geographical point of view. If you look from the linguistic point of view, then Ottawa should be superfluous, if only because it is the only one in this list that starts with a vowel. And if a schoolboy answers that Canberra is superfluous here, since this is the only city in the list that does not belong to a NATO country ... - As they say, who will throw a stone at him and say that he is wrong? .. It is clear that the computer program will exclude both the second and the third possible answer choices, but in this case, where does the level of human intellectual abilities do at all? ..

But what about testing a student's ability to solve equations, calculate the volume of geometric bodies, determine current strength, voltage and resistance in a circuit, or write Russian words competently? Apparently, the IQ test is much more effective as a final check ...

By the way, in the world practice there are many examples when the IQ indicators of outstanding scientists, web application developers, creators of new drugs, famous athletes or actors turned out to be even lower than the IQ values ​​of a regular ninth grader of a completely ordinary school. The great boxer Muhammad Ali’s IQ is 78, and actor Bruce Willis has an IQ around 100. If the experts of our deputies corps joined in, then these individuals would have no chance on the path of self-realization ...

It may be enough to try to invent a bicycle, and it’s time to take real steps to return the education system, which is still recognized as one of the best in the world. And, as they say, where does the unified state examination and IQ?

PS For readers interested in the problems of the modern education system, a report on the situation in the Unified State Exam, voiced by Professor Alexander Ivanov in Petrozavodsk 9 December 2015 of the year:

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  1. horoh
    horoh 22 December 2015 06: 15
    22
    Citizen Serdyuk is a new reformer like Serdyukov ???
    1. sa-zz
      sa-zz 22 December 2015 06: 30
      25
      Serdyuk - to luster.
      Have his party check IQ.
      Below level - sweeping yards
      1. avia1991
        avia1991 22 December 2015 07: 56
        10 th
        Quote: sa-zz
        Serdyuk - to luster.

        Let's not rush to conclusions anyway - I mean, personal ones.
        S. Mironov has enough sound ideas, both personally and in the line of the party.
        Taking into account that our "sly..opaya" pseudo-elite does not want to give up the USE - perhaps this is an attempt to introduce an alternative verification method, to somehow push aside the notorious USE? .. From which the creators themselves - the Americans - have already "a hundred years ago" refused, by the way!
        And in the future, smoothly transfer the procedure to the usual exams for us ..
        1. Shveps
          Shveps 22 December 2015 08: 52
          37
          Quote: avia1991
          our "sly..opaya" pseudo-elite


          On May 7 on May 2012, Putin signed a decree "On Measures to Implement State Policy in the Field of Education and Science."
          Vladimir Putin: “We will continue to improve the system of the Unified State Exam.
          The Unified State Exam "has both disadvantages and advantages. But the fact is that after the introduction of this scheme, there are more young talented people from the provinces who were able to enter the capital's universities."

          Especially a lot of talented youth entered the capital's universities from Chechnya and other republics of the North Caucasus. Jews - talents of almost 100%.
          For some reason, Russian youth has become impoverished.

          From the directive of A. Hitler to the Minister for Eastern Territory A. Rosenberg
          on the implementation of the Ost Master Plan (approved by A. Hitler on 25 on May 1940):
          The Slavs must work for us .... Health is unnecessary for them. Slavic fertility is undesirable ... education is dangerous. Enough if they can count to a hundred ...
          Every educated person is our future enemy.
          1. 222222
            222222 22 December 2015 10: 22
            +4
            Parenting and education begins with historical MEMORY !!!
            "" Yesterday, after the date of Stalin's birth, it somehow remained in the shadows that on the same day only 17 years later (in 1896) another Great man and commander, Konstantin Konstantinovich Rokossovsky, was born. For me personally, the most outstanding commander of the Great Patriotic War.

            Rokossovsky and Stalin. GREAT RUSSIAN

            These names are closely related to the great contribution to the Victory. Both are not native Russians, but, as is not rare in Russia, they have become great Russian figures. Pole and Georgians.
            ***
            Stalin and Rokossovsky respected each other. At the end of his life, to the demand of Khrushchev to denigrate the already dead Stalin, Rokossovsky answered: "Stalin is holy to me." Khrushchev immediately ousted him from the post of Deputy Minister of Defense.

            ***
            Stalin addressed Rokossovsky by name and patronymic: "Konstantin Konstantinovich", as a sign of deep respect for him. Almost no one from the leader's entourage received such an honor. ""
            ...
            1. Down House
              Down House 22 December 2015 11: 17
              0
              Quote: 222222
              Parenting and education begins with historical MEMORY !!!

              Nothing personal, but you have already brought up a "historical memory" in Ukraine - thank you, don't hi
              Quote: 222222
              Both are not native Russians, but, as is not rare in Russia, they have become great Russian figures.

              It will be more correct - the great Russian figures, or even more precisely, the Soviet figures hi
          2. borov
            borov 22 December 2015 12: 10
            +7
            Yeah ... Again, Serdyuk is to blame for everything, as Serdyukov was in his time. They scoff at the Russian people, pushing anti-popular laws and decisions through people with a similar surname. It is clear that the "sun-faced" knows nothing and is out of business!
            Why do we need Korolevs, Chelomeis, Raspletins? Now Ravshan and Dzhamshut will make a "good rocket", smear it with dung and good luck! Nasyalnika will be pleased!
            1. Down House
              Down House 22 December 2015 13: 14
              -5
              Quote: borov
              Now Ravshan and Dzhamshut will make a "good rocket", smear it with dung and good luck! Nasyalnika will be pleased!

              Ravshan and Dzhamshut in 95% of cases make repairs, shawarma and taxi taxi and a citizen of the Russian Federation is usually satisfied, but not on the Internet for some reason laughing
              1. gray smeet
                gray smeet 22 December 2015 15: 15
                +4
                Comparison of the tasks of the 11th grade of 1991. and 2015
                1. gray smeet
                  gray smeet 22 December 2015 15: 16
                  +5
                  Here are the tasks from 2015:
                  1. Down House
                    Down House 22 December 2015 15: 29
                    +2
                    Quote: gray smeet
                    Here are the tasks from 2015:

                    Is this a joke? request
                    1. Alex
                      Alex 22 December 2015 20: 53
                      +8
                      Quote: Down House
                      Is this a joke?

                      Believe me, the truth of life. I’m already tired of such tasks, secretly mine, even from the Soviet school childhood, I give in the lessons. The administration is still silent. Until...
                      1. garikor
                        garikor 6 January 2016 22: 15
                        0
                        Even Yashchenko, who makes up KIMy of the Unified State Examination, does not hesitate to talk about moronic tasks
                    2. avia1991
                      avia1991 22 December 2015 21: 19
                      +1
                      Quote: Down House
                      Is this a joke?

                      What kind of jokes are these ?!
                      And this is not the deepest degree of idiocy of modern school programs .. "Educational standard" rules! Moreover, the "Standard" does not give the actual training program - it is a list of results that the child must give out in the learning process .. and it never occurs to anyone to calculate how much time it takes to JUST SPEND just to convey this amount of information to the students! Not to mention that to conduct reinforcing classes, link individual knowledge into a system, conduct control through independent and control works ... etc. - everything without which the RESULT cannot be obtained, by definition.
                      1. Down House
                        Down House 23 December 2015 00: 39
                        0
                        Quote: avia1991
                        Believe me, the truth of life.

                        Quote: avia1991
                        What kind of jokes are these ?!

                        Yes, it’s from the fact that the joke is a joke, some complain that they are getting dumb from the USE, others immediately complain that they need tutors to pass the USE - and all the main thing is that they agree with each other that the USE is bad - so you can decide what exactly is bad! fellow
                  2. Tatyana
                    Tatyana 22 December 2015 19: 45
                    0
                    Characteristic for the personality of Mikhail Serdyuk, HELP on liberals in power with SUCH (!) Proposals in education.

                    Mikhail Serdyuk - Deputy of the State Duma
                    Family income - 74,21 million rubles in 2012 year
                    Chairman of the Nonprofit Partnership “Social Responsibility”.
                    Owner of several construction companies in the Khanty-Mansiysk Autonomous Okrug.
                    With 2011 year State Duma deputy, member of the Just Russia faction.

                    FACTS
                    Age: 39
                    Place of birth: Khanty-Mansi Autonomous Okrug, Surgut
                    Marital status: Married, four children
                    Position: State Duma Deputy
                    Education: Tyumen State Oil and Gas University
                    1. avia1991
                      avia1991 22 December 2015 21: 38
                      +1
                      Quote: Tatiana
                      HELP about liberals in power

                      Perhaps you will also unearth Mr. Livanov at the same time? For comparison ..
                      Surprise You will not surprise anyone with this: many representatives of the deputy corps, in particular, representatives of "EdRa", indicators are comparable and higher. Without such income, you will not come close to the State Duma as a deputy! hi
                    2. Down House
                      Down House 23 December 2015 00: 40
                      0
                      Quote: Tatiana
                      Marital status: Married, four children

                      Well done man hi
              2. borov
                borov 22 December 2015 17: 28
                +5
                Ravshan and Dzhamshut in 95% of cases make repairs, shawarma and taxi taxi and a citizen of the Russian Federation is usually satisfied, but not on the Internet for some reason
                A citizen like you is definitely satisfied - because you don't take a minibus and if you buy a "shawarma" it is only kosher, and judging by the number of crafty comments, you are not in Russia at all and here you are "trolling" on the site.
                http://topwar.ru/index.php?do=lastcomments&userid=146643
                And if the case - and what? Is there a choice for a simple citizen of the Russian Federation who does not have a personal car? Maybe buy a personal fleet and hire Russians there?
                Who brings them (ravshanov) here? Are they going themselves? So such laws are adopted by "servants of the people"!
                1. Down House
                  Down House 22 December 2015 18: 04
                  0
                  Quote: borov
                  Is there a choice for a simple citizen of the Russian Federation who does not have a personal car?

                  Lada Grant on credit for 5000 rubles per month - everything is in your hands!
                  Quote: borov
                  Maybe buy a personal fleet and hire Russians there?

                  And they will not work for that money and with such a schedule as "Dzhamshut" - checked!
                  1. avia1991
                    avia1991 23 December 2015 00: 02
                    +1
                    Quote: Down House
                    Lada Grant on credit for 5000 rubles per month

                    You are our naive .. well, go - get it!
                    And if you remember that a salary of 10 thousand rubles will not surprise anyone (except for Maaaskwich, perhaps) - then what kind of loan are we talking about? The remaining amount is not enough for a communal apartment in the winter! Not to mention that "for some reason I also want to eat .."
                    1. Down House
                      Down House 23 December 2015 00: 41
                      0
                      Quote: avia1991
                      Well, go get it!

                      Yes, they took half the country - the first place in the statistics of sales! fellow
                      Quote: avia1991
                      And if you remember that a salary of 10 thousand rubles will not surprise anyone

                      Only those who drank a lot of beer at school - normal people live normally everywhere hi
                      1. derik1970
                        derik1970 23 December 2015 06: 42
                        +3
                        You are "my friend" balabol. My grandmother is a neighbor, a pensioner who cannot always afford to buy the same fresh frozen fish, does she live normally? And what does it mean to live normally, for someone it's just chicken soup twice a week. Is this the same normal? I have a salary of 15 thousand, the child is a schoolboy, respectively, the school fees for the bobble, the payment for the apartment, and so on, we survive as best we can, like the whole country. You "gentlemen" got stuck, broke away from reality. There is half of the country that is not included in your sales statistics, they do not have cars and will never have a business and they will never open a business, because the store in the store is already empty and the salary is less than 10 thousand in spite of higher education. Then wipe your eyes, think about what you write. I have built housing in the city, several nine-story buildings and there is no one to live in them, for some reason it is expensive, and you will hardly find work. And soon they will build a microdistrict, 2-3 storey, so it is generally unclear who will be populated there. Probably migrants and Tajikistan will be brought. And in fact, a certain group of wealthy citizens, businessmen eat them, buy apartments and then lease them out and they have several cars. You communicate with people like you and it often feels like people from another planet and the Russian language do not understand at all.
                      2. derik1970
                        derik1970 23 December 2015 07: 24
                        0
                        Quote: Down House
                        Quote: avia1991
                        Well, go get it!

                        Yes, they took half the country - the first place in the statistics of sales! fellow
                        Quote: avia1991
                        And if you remember that a salary of 10 thousand rubles will not surprise anyone

                        Only those who drank a lot of beer at school - normal people live normally everywhere hi

                        Normally live it how? And where is it everywhere, in Moscow and the Moscow region? Well, there are big salaries, another country, in fact, visitors to that city of Shchelkovo are painfully in the store and do not pay attention to prices, they take at the prices that are. And the rest of the country, how did you live? A child needs to get a loan to school. Not everyone can do it. Can all children go to school? In 1997, in an artillery training in the army, we studied the multiplication table with the cadets, what can we say now with our education system! And beer has nothing to do with school. Stupidly there is no work, the salary is less than 10 thousand, even if there is a higher education. What kind of car with a loan can we talk about ??? Your car sales statistics do not include half of the country's population, which is simply on the brink of existence and not everyone can become businessmen and other oligarchs. In my city, several nine-story buildings were built, and few can buy an apartment there. And this is not normal. Wealthy citizens are buying up apartments, such as businessmen, and renting them for use. These businessmen have just a few cars in the household. And everyone else is in flight. Soon another microdistrict will be built and apparently it will be settled by migrants, because there is no one to live there, there simply isn’t as much population, much less money. Go down to earth gentlemen, the reality is different.
                      3. Down House
                        Down House 23 December 2015 11: 45
                        0
                        Quote: derik1970
                        Normally live it how?

                        Well, there are relatives in Tatarstan, the average salary without high school in the city is 15 thousand.
                        House in a village with a large plot of 10-100 (for a cool house).
                        Even for 15000 with a family member, having if his house is NORMALLY POSSIBLE TO LIVE - but the locals still predominantly thump thump, do not work and do not grow a garden.
        2. I am Russian
          I am Russian 22 December 2015 17: 41
          +4
          From the directive of A. Hitler to the Minister for Eastern Territory A. Rosenberg
          on the implementation of the Ost Master Plan (approved by A. Hitler on 25 on May 1940):
          The Slavs must work for us .... Health is unnecessary for them. Slavic fertility is undesirable ... education is dangerous. Enough if they can count to a hundred ...
          Every educated person is our future enemy.
        3. The comment was deleted.
      2. Sibiryak
        Sibiryak 22 December 2015 09: 22
        +8
        Quote: avia1991
        Let's not rush to conclusions anyway - I mean, personal ones.

        And what is there to hurry, everything is clear as daylight! The chosen method of teaching the population in which the so-called "teachers" are not responsible for anything, that's all, and for any questions in their direction there will be an answer - "SAM DU.R.AK!" Indeed, in their opinion, the main thing in the modern world is money, but how information is transmitted, in what volume, and most importantly (the goal) how it is acquired is no longer important, therefore, in my opinion, all this is an ordinary profanation with one goal - enrichment at the expense of others or another parasitism!
        Fools, after all, are easiest to control, only they sometimes do not voluntarily at home kick off an explosion of domestic gas, for example, and this makes people around them no less comfortable in life.
        1. avia1991
          avia1991 22 December 2015 10: 14
          +8
          Quote: Sibiryak
          The chosen method of teaching the population in which the so-called "teachers" are not responsible for anything

          First, the You just can’t imagine how many ANY FIGURES a teacher at school is responsible for! Mostly for the fact that he simply interferes with work - however, it is constantly required from him!
          Second:
          Quote: Sibiryak
          how information is transmitted, to what extent,
          it is not the teacher who decides, but the "educational standard" - which was clearly drawn up not even by amateurs - PESTS! The teacher, however, has no right to deviate from the standard - otherwise, disqualification and dismissal.
          If you are talking about university education - specify. I will not particularly discuss this issue, because I have information only indirectly. hi
          1. Down House
            Down House 22 December 2015 11: 19
            -9
            Quote: avia1991
            for how many ANY FIGS is the teacher at school!

            For what? For subbotniks or washing boards or floors after class? More specifically, have the schools still not hired cleaners?
            1. NikolaySM
              NikolaySM 22 December 2015 11: 43
              +4
              You need to earn points, participate in contests (to get a piece of paper for participation) and knock money out of parents for the needs of the class (now through the parent committee). The main thing is that less involved in the education of children. And the cleaner washes the floors in the class, we parents pay her.
              1. Down House
                Down House 22 December 2015 12: 11
                -1
                Quote: NikolaySM
                And the cleaner washes the floors in the class, we parents pay her.

                Well, at least in this progress - and that’s good.
            2. Alex
              Alex 22 December 2015 21: 17
              +8
              Quote: Down House
              Quote: Down House
              You just can’t imagine how many ANY FIGURES a teacher at school is responsible for!
              For what?

              Well, Vanialisten to this.

              1. Educational work.
              This sector includes MANDATORY visits to families of students, compilation of a social passport for EVERY child and the entire class as a whole. In addition, at the end of each magazine, a list should be drawn up indicating the address of the child’s official and real place of residence (what the hell - even those who invented this nonsense do not know), full name (and here he’ll break a leg!) Of the legal representatives of the child and his parents (and how do the two relate, especially if the parents are divorced, but are not deprived of parental rights, not even every lawyer will explain to you) indicating not only the same addresses, but also the month of work, workers, home and mobile phones. Moreover, the information should be checked for compliance at least twice a year.

              Is this not enough for you? Then make a plan of educational work for the school year (sometimes indulgence - you can not immediately, but in two stages, for half a year each). It is necessary to take into account not only the study period, but also Sundays and - a holy cause! - vacation time. Each class teacher is obliged to know where his (!) Children will be in non-school hours (there is no demand from parents, of course, they are not at work, it's not their children).

              Do you think that's all? My dear, you think badly about the officials of the ministry! In addition, the class teacher must (!) Know where and in what sections and circles students of his class are involved, up to the timetable.

              Are the lists ready? Well, we begin to write MANDATORY reports on the implementation of the work plan. Yes, not just two lines, but with statistical calculations (the notorious percentomania has not disappeared anywhere, lives and lives, darling), analysis and introspection and recommendations for the future.

              The working day is over, you can breathe easy. Calm down? How did that come to your mind, unfortunate one? You (specifically YOU, and not anyone else) are personally responsible for where and what your (again!) Children do outside of school hours. Has your (and then whose?) Student robbed someone? You will write an explanatory note and provide copies of reports on the very educational activities that should have been carried out to prevent crime. Note, not the family, but the school should talk about traffic rules, AIDS, drug addiction and other "joys of life."
              1. avia1991
                avia1991 22 December 2015 22: 15
                +3
                Quote: Alex
                Do you think that's all?

                smile You still decided to try to explain, Alexander ?!
                Waste of time. First, the in order to really assess the scope of requirements for a teacher, a person must have a DESIRE to do this - that is, treat your information with attention! Our opponent’s comments aren’t visible - that means he’s not interested, for himself, he has long made a picture, approved and sealed! It doesn’t matter that it does not correspond to Reality - the main thing is that IT SETS IT UP!
                Secondlyin order to comprehend everything that will be told by you, you need ALL AND READ! But you described only part of the duties .. did not remember electronic diaries, projects, essays, extracurricular activities (a very broad concept) - and, accordingly, reports on these events! Plus the actual training sessions, preparation for them, checking notebooks .. And before all this - writing a training program in your subject, in strict accordance with the "Educational Standard", as well as the methodological recommendations developed by the "teams of authors" - and God forbid you will not get some lousy "scribble" of the city-regional educational official! Resentment will certainly come back to haunt you, and it will hurt your pocket! .. But what am I telling you ... hi
                1. Alex
                  Alex 22 December 2015 22: 51
                  +3
                  Sergey, you are right: you can explain it only to someone who really wants to understand and is ready to change his mind. I just tried to show a certain individual (and, probably, a parent) that it was high time to rename our EDUCATION. In what - I do not have the slightest idea, but it does not matter. Just repeating Vereshchagin (in memory of Pavel Luspekayev hi ): "It's a shame for the state."

                  Thanks for the kind words on behalf of all the teachers!
              2. Down House
                Down House 23 December 2015 00: 43
                -2
                Quote: Alex
                Well, Vanya, listen.

                Thanks, I listened hi
                Now the question is - how many students does the "class teacher" have, that you write that he was "overloaded"?
                Oh, the commanders in military units about him having read, probably, burst into tears of envy fellow
                1. Bort radist
                  Bort radist 23 December 2015 04: 08
                  +1
                  Quote: Down House
                  Now the question is - how many students does the "class teacher" have?

                  Not less than 25, if at least one less -% payment less. Just don’t think that if there are 29 students in the class, you will be paid extra)).
                2. Alex
                  Alex 23 December 2015 21: 52
                  +2
                  Quote: Down House
                  Now the question is - how many students does the "class teacher" have, that you write that he was "overloaded"?
                  Class loading rates are 25-30 people. According to the norms of the Soviet Army, a motorized rifle platoon is obtained exactly. At the same time, the commander’s platoon has three branch commanders who perform all the routine work. At the same time, the commanders do not bear even a hundredth of the responsibility for their subordinates (I mean peacetime), which they put on the teachers. So what is there to envy - I have no idea. Unless the fact that the officer retires through 25 years of service with a substantial pension, and the teacher in 55 (women) or 60 (men) years on a common basis with a meager amount.

                  When I was in the States, my interlocutors could not believe that my mother had 28 years of teaching experience - they had simply not been working for so many years at school. I didn’t finish them with revelation that this is still quite an average indicator.
            3. Alex
              Alex 22 December 2015 21: 33
              +5
              Continue

              2. Administrative part
              Do you know your child's height? If not and is urgently needed, but there is no meter at hand, call the class teacher (if you, unlike him, have his phone number). He knows exactly the height of EACH student and knows what height of the desk he needs. Well, such a trifle as the fact that children grow up, and grow up rather quickly, does not bother anyone - "you might think they are very busy, they can not measure it a couple of times a year."

              Have you weighed your child’s backpack (unless, of course, you even looked at him at least once)? And how much should he weigh? Do not strain, teachers should follow this too (indeed, they really have nothing more to do, even if the steelyards drag themselves, they won’t lose them). Yes, pigtails for girls can also not be braided. For you, this, of course, is a way of self-expression of personality, and for teachers is another headache: sanitary standards regulate not only the height of the desks, but how light passes through the thickets hanging from their heads. Who is being punished for this? Guess from three times.

              Last trick: saving energy. True, no one has yet explained how to link this initiative with the same sanitary standards for illumination (especially in winter), but this is not important - the main thing is that there is something to punish the whole pedagogy again.

              Against this background, such trifles as the distance from the floor to the lower edge of the board or the thermometer ball, moving changes and physical exercises with gymnastics for the eyes and so on are simply not perceived: all of the above is already enough to achieve the desired goal - to bring the teacher to a state of insanity .

              You were talking about minibus drivers here. Once I had a chance to go in one of these, accidentally got into a conversation with the driver. When he found out that I was a teacher at school, he said: “If you can collect all the passengers in one flight in a week, I still wouldn't change even for one lesson.” But I haven’t talked about the educational process, only my colleagues will be able to fully appreciate it. So you shouldn't give an assessment to someone's work until you try on this skin for yourself.
            4. avia1991
              avia1991 22 December 2015 21: 52
              +2
              Quote: Down House
              For what? For subbotniks or washing boards or floors after class?

              How far are you from school problems? just like "the Decembrists from the people"! hi And I don’t see the need to become Herzen ..
              Quote: Down House
              Can be more specific

              More specifically, it is possible. But here it will be regarded as spam, since it takes up a lot of space. And what's the point of explaining something to you if you are initially opposed
              Quote: Down House
              "soviet teachers"
              - Your goal is not Truth, but watering ... education. Therefore, I will only give you advice: do not need your personal attitude to the "teachers" - who, apparently, did not favor you at some point, and perhaps for the cause - to transfer to all teachers, and the entire education system. Try a day to work with modern spinoggits - and you yourself will be surprised how quickly you want to strangle one of them! But - "nizzyayaya", you have no such right. You have to be tolerant, tolerant, and if someone sends you in plain text (from the students!) - you have to smile sweetly and say: "Vasechka, this is very impolite!" Because otherwise, an hour later, a video with a "rude teacher violating the rights of an unfortunate child" will appear on YouTube, and YOU! -will be dragged in with the requirement to explain their behavior!
              Of course, I exaggerate to a certain extent - but the Truth is pretty close. And this is so, an ordinary piece of work ..
              1. Down House
                Down House 23 December 2015 00: 46
                -1
                Quote: avia1991
                do not need your personal attitude to the "teachers" - which, apparently, did not favor you at one time, and perhaps, for the cause - to transfer to all teachers

                Yes, if I were alone, but show me those who warmly remember their "teachers"!
                Well, one or two and I remember - is that a lot? fellow
                Quote: avia1991
                How far from school are you?

                I’ve finished mine, I haven’t started for others yet - but my original message was not that hi
          2. kit_bellew
            kit_bellew 22 December 2015 12: 04
            10
            Quote: avia1991
            Second:
            Quote: Sibiryak

            how information is transmitted, to what extent,

            it is not the teacher who decides, but the "educational standard" - which was clearly drawn up not even by amateurs - PESTS! The teacher, however, has no right to deviate from the standard - otherwise, disqualification and dismissal.


            Moreover. The school administration requires the teacher to overstate, because there is no academic achievement - there is no funding. His wife, a teacher of Russian and literature, was forced to stop working at school precisely because of this. He says that school is now a nightmare and lawlessness. Parents of principle losers come complaining about teachers: Why do their children get poor grades?

            Never, never will we be able to revive the Soviet education system until our children believe again that we need to learn in order to build a bright tomorrow with full dedication.
      3. Down House
        Down House 22 December 2015 09: 51
        +8
        Quote: avia1991
        S. Mironov has enough sound ideas, both personally and in the line of the party.

        It is enough that 90% of the citizens of the Russian Federation do not even remember WHO IT IS AT ALL THIS - therefore, Mr. Mironov has to share his "sound ideas" with fellow party members in the party kitchen fellow
        1. avia1991
          avia1991 22 December 2015 10: 06
          +1
          Quote: Down House
          It is enough that 90% of the citizens of the Russian Federation do not even remember WHO IT IS AT ALL

          Have you conducted a large-scale survey?
          To blame someone indiscriminately - yes, for this we never rust. AND Have you ever wondered why there is so little information with us about the same SR initiatives? Or, in general, about the proposals made by sober, competent, professionally trained citizens to improve the situation in the country and its development?
          Who we have there - in the State Duma - "in the overwhelming majority"? Everyone knows them, TRUE ?! And what - do you propose to equal them? So Mr. Livanov is from the SAME PARTY! MEMBER..
          1. My address
            My address 22 December 2015 10: 29
            19
            I will continue hi Sergey.

            Dear colleagues! Take an interest in the internet views unforgettable Fursenko am by what kind of education is needed. I read and was stunned. Case Fursenko continues Livanov. After all, this can only declare the enemy. Hitler needed Slavs who were able to read only plain text and who could count to ten. Fursenko needs more, but not much educated. The main thing is that neither one nor the other needs creative personalities from the Slavs.

            On testing for intelligence - the thing is quite specific and can give a variation in 20-30 units, depending on the mood and other things temporary. Interview reveals the ability to order better.

            I have two grandchildren finished school. The last six months have wondered the right answers to possible questions. And not just to the story. And to math. For example, who cares, the Pythagorean theorem is proved through trigonomotry. And relativistic effects through the Pythagorean theorem. But according to Livanov and Fursenko, this is heresy.

            Dark Middle Ages in education is their goal.

            And a sad joke about these lackeys of Putin:
            The book "Learn Russian with Fursenko and Livanov. Head first. How to gavarit and pazyat, "zdesya" Ali "here".
            1. Svetlana
              Svetlana 22 December 2015 14: 57
              +5
              Quote: My address
              Dark Middle Ages in education is their goal.

              Very accurately noticed. And this is in everything, not only in education, but everything else is based on education. Having destroyed the foundation, you can no longer doubt that both the walls and the roof will collapse by themselves.
          2. sa-zz
            sa-zz 22 December 2015 10: 59
            +7
            Quote: avia1991
            So Mr. Livanov is from the SAME PARTY! MEMBER..

            I agree with this, I wrote before. A very muddy "comrade" - an FSB client for sure. And Fursenko is the same.
            Quote: avia1991
            Have you ever wondered WHY we have so little information about the same SR initiatives? Or, in general, about the proposals made by sober, competent, professionally trained citizens to improve the situation in the country and its development?

            I have been tormented by these questions for a long time.
            In its program, the SR states that the main goals are to freeze tariff growth and fight corruption (and, of course, raise salaries by half - that’s clear).
            So what bills were blocked by the CP on tariffs, what has been done on tariffs and in the fight against corruption? Why didn’t anyone see Mitrofanov? Many more questions.
            My opinion - everyone should do their job well - Serdyuk oilman "economics and management". He has good initiatives on a simplified taxation system and "Mother-Heroine" - so we need to do what works best, and not get into education.
            1. avia1991
              avia1991 22 December 2015 22: 28
              0
              Quote: sa-zz
              What bills were blocked by the CP on tariffs, what has been done on tariffs and in the fight against corruption?

              Is there a lot of open information at all during the debates in the State Duma, about who said what, who spoke FOR / AGAINST, etc.? Voting is secret, if the opposition is against it, as a rule, they cannot compete with EdR, there is not enough strength. They could - but the same LDPR, as a rule, "both ours and yours." Zhirinovsky is a professional oppositionist ... just like Zyuganov, by the way.
              Mironov - perhaps, too. Belonging to other parties allows their deputies to voice those ideas that "should not" be offered to "United Russia". But, since the opposition in our country serves to create the appearance of a multi-party system, perhaps one should not perceive the concept of "spravedlivoross" or "communist" - but "deputy of the State Duma".
              As for the option to "block the bill" - to be honest, I do not know under what conditions this is possible in the State Duma. Can one faction do it? Especially small? Is there something like a "veto right" like Churkin has in the UN Security Council?
          3. Down House
            Down House 22 December 2015 11: 37
            0
            Quote: avia1991
            Have you conducted a large-scale survey?

            And a similar poll by the way was laughing
            Quote: avia1991
            Have you ever wondered WHY we have so little information about the same SR initiatives?

            Well, here's their "initiative" laughing
            Quote: avia1991
            about the proposals made by sober, competent, professionally prepared citizens to improve the situation in the country and its development?

            What does the SR have to do with it? request
          4. 16112014nk
            16112014nk 22 December 2015 15: 41
            +4
            Before Livanov there was such a citizen of Fursenko. So he said: "Our task is to grow, instead of a man-creator, a qualified consumer ". With the help of a successor, Lebanon was raised. Now these consumers are not engaged in building for the good of the people, but in personal consumption. To return the Soviet level of education, recognized throughout the world, it will take as much time as it took and continues to go to the destruction of that system. Law of physics. Many will not survive until the light of time with such an anti-people production, unfortunately.
      4. Baloo
        Baloo 22 December 2015 09: 59
        +3
        Colleagues, the IQ test itself is a fascinating activity, like charging for the brain when you are already unable to perceive anything. There are 180 points, most are 150 points, but there are 200 points. For example, Bush junior has 77 points out of 150, after a glass of vodka I have (out of complexity made the task harder) 126 out of 150.
        The Unified State Exam, like any exam, is designed to test the level of erudition, let's call it that. IQ test for logic, i.e. ability to think. The tests presented in the article are simple and easy to solve. There is an interesting test called the "Einstein Test". The most interesting thing. I couldn't decide in my head. With pencil and paper, I decided in 30 minutes.
        Do I need exams? Of course we need. Is an IQ test necessary? Of course, when entering a university, it is necessary, although not everywhere. Why IQ musician or artist?
        A lawyer, engineer, doctor, military (anyone can continue the list) the ability to think quickly logically and make decisions are necessary. hi
        1. a housewife
          a housewife 22 December 2015 13: 47
          +4
          Our people will have the highest rate, especially among the poor. Because every day you have to solve such problems that no Einstein will compose. And without formulas.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. Ingvar 72
          Ingvar 72 22 December 2015 14: 06
          +2
          Quote: Balu
          after a glass of vodka ( for interest complicated the task) 126 of 150.
          On the contrary, simplified! After a glass of EVERYONE feel a rush of wit! drinks
          1. Svetlana
            Svetlana 22 December 2015 15: 00
            +4
            Quote: Ingvar 72
            After a glass of EVERYONE feel a rush of wit!

            What can I say - many feel like geniuses!
          2. Baloo
            Baloo 22 December 2015 19: 33
            +1
            Not quite, 40 minutes after a glass without a bite, something in between mild and moderate intoxication, tongue tossing and turning with difficulty, thoughts are slightly vague. All honestly, complicating the task, not making it easier. Try ... On I have a "bank of tests", in the refrigerator it is like a tear. Well, go ahead Ingvar 72 wink
          3. The comment was deleted.
      5. sa-zz
        sa-zz 22 December 2015 10: 03
        +7
        Quote: avia1991
        Let's not rush to conclusions anyway - I mean, personal

        Hurry - do you make people laugh? That's for sure. First you need to check the intelligence coefficient of the deputies not only of the SR - but of the entire Duma, to begin personally with Serdyuk.
        Judging by Serdyuk’s advertising banners, he has a tendency to ask questions more than to answer them.
        IQ is needed at an early age to determine ability, it is more for parents where to direct their efforts. There are organizations that are engaged in this, reveal a "propensity for success" in this or that activity. Well, or when entering a university, for example, a technical one.
        Interestingly, this IQ where I was going to write - in the certificate or in the results of the exam?
        Perhaps it’s enough to make attempts to reinvent the wheel, and it’s time to take real steps to return the education system, which still remains one of the best in the world.
      6. avia1991
        avia1991 22 December 2015 10: 41
        0
        laughing !
        Well, here's an example!
        None of the commentators who entered into the discussion with me put a "minus" - all substantiated their objections in the form of messages!
        And only one "minus" appeared from someone who has NOTHING TO TELL - or is simply unable to. Is this not the fruit of the modern "education system" ?! laughing
        1. Down House
          Down House 22 December 2015 11: 47
          0
          Quote: avia1991
          And only one "minus" appeared from someone who has NOTHING TO TELL - or is simply unable to. Is this not the fruit of the modern "education system" ?!

          I wonder what, then, to explain my 100500 minuses as an "anti-communist"? fellow
          1. avia1991
            avia1991 22 December 2015 13: 50
            +1
            Yes, the same, in fact: the inability to reasonably lead a discussion, with a categorical disagreement - because this does not fit into the "cliché"!
            We can have different views, swear, argue - but we do it openly, as a rule.
      7. go21zd45few
        go21zd45few 22 December 2015 11: 08
        +3
        I agree that there is nothing to innovate in education, it is time to return to the Soviet system in four stages. The first stage is general education, i.e. a school, then a vocational school, technical school and institute i.e. higher education. In schools to enter exams and not puzzles. What we will have: Literate youth, training of professional workers, middle and senior managers. But this is not real as it is not profitable 1%
        population of Russia, they do not need competent, highly qualified personnel, they need illiteracy which is easier to manage.
    2. Alf
      Alf 22 December 2015 21: 59
      0
      Quote: sa-zz
      Have his party check IQ.
      Below level - sweeping yards

      Damn, yes, our yards sparkle with purity.
  2. Andrey Yuryevich
    Andrey Yuryevich 22 December 2015 06: 40
    20
    a large indicator of IQ - we must take to the university, we must give way. Well, since it’s small - immediately “hello to the family” - let them understand
    and if the indicator is less than small, immediately drown like kittens ... President, do you not know what your boyars are doing? take a look inside the country for a moment!
    1. fraer
      fraer 22 December 2015 06: 45
      12
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      .President, you do not know what your boyars are doing? take a look inside the country for a moment!

      fool What are you? He’s not up to it! This is not a royal affair!
    2. Alexander S.
      Alexander S. 22 December 2015 08: 57
      +1
      As it is written - it was proposed by the deputy of the State Duma. And the president does not appoint deputies. And people go to elect. I have friends who, in the presidential election, decided to vote for the fun of Zhirinovsky for fun. So why be surprised that we have up there a bunch of d ... c.
      1. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich 22 December 2015 09: 50
        +6
        Quote: Alexander S.
        I have friends who, in the presidential election, decided to vote for fun Zhirinovsky for fun.

        looking at others, this is not the worst option, he is a political showman, but his predictions come true more than those of the Globa ..
        1. fraer
          fraer 22 December 2015 12: 02
          +1
          Quote: Andrey Yurievich
          but his predictions come true more than Globa's ..

          Andrei Yuryevich, but can you comment on this? The delirium of a drunken Chinese, or is the future of Russia?
          1. Andrey Yuryevich
            Andrey Yuryevich 22 December 2015 12: 17
            +6
            Quote: fraer

            Andrei Yuryevich, but can you comment on this?

            I can only repeat: this is a showman, counting on populism, conjuncture, but by no means dolby ... how many represent! hi
            1. fraer
              fraer 22 December 2015 12: 39
              +3
              I agree one hundred percent. Therefore, I listen. hi
      2. Down House
        Down House 22 December 2015 09: 55
        +1
        Quote: Alexander S.
        And people go to elect.

        Namely, our people first choose who is not clear themselves - and 60-80 percent of the quality of the surrounding "biome" is the work of LOCAL DEPUTIES-MEASURES - and then they complain about Putin - Tsar come and save everything without you! fellow
    3. Down House
      Down House 22 December 2015 09: 53
      0
      Quote: Andrey Yurievich
      President, do you not know what your boyars are doing?

      So it seems like the "initiator" is from the opposition, and where is Putin again ?! fellow
      1. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich 22 December 2015 12: 22
        +1
        Quote: Down House
        So it seems like the "initiator" is from the opposition, where is Putin again?

        The "initiator" is a deputy, in other words, a boyar from the Duma ... what's not clear? who should be quickly "leaked" from the Duma, remind? Why the hell is this "smart guy" sitting there? for what?
        1. Down House
          Down House 22 December 2015 12: 37
          0
          Quote: Andrey Yurievich
          why the hell is this "smart guy" sitting there? for what?

          You personally elected them there fellow
  3. Kos_kalinki9
    Kos_kalinki9 22 December 2015 07: 03
    +2
    Quote: horoh
    Citizen Serdyuk is a new reformer like Serdyukov ???

    Storetkin from "education". We are waiting for Madame Vasilyeva-2.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Aleksandr72
      Aleksandr72 22 December 2015 07: 44
      16
      In my opinion, the Unified State Exam and the IQ test are, as some cultural comrades say, "mono.pe.n.i.sualno" (sorry for being rude, or rather just using foul language, but this is a ban!). Education will only be helped by a complete rejection of the artificially introduced transatlantic standards and a return to the Soviet system, which may not have been perfect, but at least then they were taught to think, and not to stupidly memorize without understanding the meaning. This is my opinion, whether to agree with them or not is your right!
      I have the honor.
    3. cuzmin.mihail2013
      cuzmin.mihail2013 22 December 2015 10: 10
      +6
      I hate both! But you must admit that they are graduates of the Soviet school of education. And I think that their "labor successes" were the result of the knowledge gained. However, the knowledge gained by specialists, precisely in the USSR, also allows Russia to compete with the West. What will happen when bachelors and masters come to replace them, a big question !!!
      1. Down House
        Down House 22 December 2015 11: 52
        +2
        Quote: cuzmin.mihail2013
        However, the knowledge gained by specialists, namely in the USSR, still allows Russia to compete with the West.

        You just understand what the matter is - it is in Tsarist Russia (well, partly under Stalin too) or in Imperial Germany, universities trained primarily educated, cultured and comprehensively developed people. And it was these "people" who came up with the "Theory of Relativity, Nuclear Bomb and Rocket".
        And now?
        And now they are training "specialists" - cogs of the modern economy with knowledge of the world around them tending to zero - there is a degradation of higher education not in the Russian Federation, but all over the world - and not now, but for more than half a century.
        Although no, normal universities are still abroad - but they are all "for some reason" elite and very expensive fellow
  4. major071
    major071 22 December 2015 07: 50
    13
    When the cat has nothing to do, then he ... at least does business. So I wish Serdyuk the same ... to do business laughing There are more and more reformers, and the level of education is lower.
  5. 79807420129
    79807420129 22 December 2015 08: 38
    11
    That the Unified State Examination, that these tests for IQ from a change of place, nothing will change, I won’t be surprised that Serdyuk IQ is lower than the baseboard, you need to return the Soviet education system, but where do you get teachers now?
    1. APASUS
      APASUS 22 December 2015 12: 19
      +2
      Why tear the throat in search of truth, this whole booth showed the inferiority of the new educational system. It is time to return to the standards developed by the USSR, the programs can be adjusted according to the modern look. I have a daughter at the institute to study - crying is the hunt for such knowledge
  6. Egor123
    Egor123 22 December 2015 15: 42
    0
    They, with their exams, brought me all the brains! am
  7. siberalt
    siberalt 22 December 2015 16: 38
    +2
    Knowledge control - idiocy! They are or not. There is still shit! Took custody of the representative of the Ministry of Defense Dm. Shortfalls for bribe search laughing
  8. nov_tech.vrn
    nov_tech.vrn 22 December 2015 20: 39
    0
    reincarnation, it would be better for the little ones to die ...
  9. tank64rus
    tank64rus 22 December 2015 21: 51
    0
    They have there Livanov and the Higher School of Economics Serdyukov was envious of their "results". Even he cannot do that. There is only one thing left to make a breakthrough for our science to clone S.K. Shoigu, otherwise a complete education.
  10. tank64rus
    tank64rus 22 December 2015 21: 51
    0
    They have there Livanov and the Higher School of Economics Serdyukov was envious of their "results". Even he cannot do that. There is only one thing left to make a breakthrough for our science to clone S.K. Shoigu, otherwise a complete education.
  • Sirocco
    Sirocco 22 December 2015 06: 22
    15
    Again, there’s nothing to talk about. Prior to this, Livanova was Nevkursenko, who is next to destroy education and grow stupid slaves, After all, it is known that it is easier to manage uneducated people, they ask fewer questions. Like in Ukraine.
    So, if we assume that the Ministry of Education and Science will suddenly support the deputy’s initiative, then, frankly, it’s not entirely clear how the verification of a person’s intelligence level will be compared with the knowledge that he received in the process of studying at school?

    I have long had a doubt crept in on the competence of ministers in education. How to check them, how to sweep this evil from the ministry? Again to Putin with petition? I don’t understand anything. request Where will competent specialists come from with such a ministry? Or do we not need a letter? In the field to plow, and the streets of revenge education is not necessary.
    I think we need to return the old soviet education system, taking into account the modern realities of life.
    1. fraer
      fraer 22 December 2015 06: 54
      +9
      Quote: Sirocco
      After all, it is known that uneducated people are easier to manage, fewer questions are asked. Like in Ukraine.

      Why only in Ukraine? Gref voiced in his interview (for Russia).
      "But it's scary when everyone knows everything! How to manage such people?"
      (not verbatim, find the video on YouTube, this abomination is stated there live)
      For your consideration, about the return of the Soviet education system, I present my "thought" recourse This is impossible without restoration of the legal field of the USSR hi
      1. Sirocco
        Sirocco 22 December 2015 07: 07
        +5
        Quote: fraer
        On your reflection, about the return of the Soviet education system, I am putting forward my "thought" This is impossible without restoring the legal field of the USSR


        Dreams, dreams, where is your sweetness, dreams have gone, muck has remained.
        This is from a series of fantasies. I understand perfectly well that what was not returned. NEVER. (Both education and the USSR itself in its form).
        If we do not have literate people, and EDUCATION, then we will not see any breakthroughs in the future, we will turn into a semblance of Africa.
        1. fraer
          fraer 22 December 2015 07: 44
          +5
          Quote: Sirocco
          Dreams, dreams, where is your sweetness, dreams have gone, muck has remained.

          Want is not bad, is bad not want
          Quote: Sirocco
          If we do not have literate people, and EDUCATION, then we will not see any breakthroughs in the future, we will turn into a semblance of Africa.

          You somewhere, today mentioned that our generation will leave and ..... "Africa" ​​is just around the corner.
          The people do not know the true enemy in the face; only a person who has survived both under capitalism and socialism can recognize it. Truth is known by comparison. You should not give up the cross (I'm not talking about the territory of the USSR) on the legal field of the USSR.
        2. a housewife
          a housewife 22 December 2015 14: 56
          +4
          None, through "and" and merged. First, you need to somehow interest young people, starting with the smallest children, in literature! Yes, you just need to read a lot, moreover, good literature, you need high-quality children's cartoons, children's films, fairy tales. Soviet ones are simply masterpieces! 10-minute films managed to amuse, and make laugh, and to outline the problem. From there, from art, life concepts arise, the development of creativity, knowledge of the world. And my daughter passed the exam easily! Because the head is not empty. And at the university it was easier for her than for others, plus hard work. But there were few like her. The rest could hardly pull. I do not know anything about our ministers of education, but what programs are in schools speaks volumes. We have many talented teachers in our country. Is it really impossible to find the Minister of Education from among them? Well, they won't put the composer to manage the plant, but to conduct the engineer's orchestra! Why is education done this way? Who are these ministers? On what basis are they appointed? hi request
      2. Down House
        Down House 22 December 2015 10: 01
        -6
        Quote: fraer
        about the return of the Soviet education system

        There was a crappy system; at MSU, instead of the department of philosophy, there was a department of Marxism-Leninism!
        And if someone did not understand, it is for this reason (the lack of LITERATIVE "humanitarians") that Soviet engineers lost the information war to American sociologists-legal psychologists! fellow
        PS If anything, we still have practically no LITERATIVE humanitarians, the bulk of the "fence-building" prepares devils like devils.
        1. kit_bellew
          kit_bellew 22 December 2015 12: 25
          +5
          Quote: Down House
          There was a crappy system; at MSU, instead of the department of philosophy, there was a department of Marxism-Leninism!
          And if someone did not understand, it is for this reason (the lack of LITERATIVE "humanitarians") that Soviet engineers lost the information war to American sociologists-legal psychologists!


          It was not Soviet engineers who lost the information war, primarily because this is not their (engineers') field of activity. The USSR lost the information war simply because no one (primarily in the ideological department of the Central Committee of the CPSU) saw any war, and those who did fought on the side of the enemy. The Soviet party elite, starting with Khrushchev, slowly began to drain the Union. The arrival of Gorbachev was preceded by a rather long transition of the USSR economy to the model of the "oil pipe economy." As for literate humanitarians, then ... Where did the fifth column come from? The philological faculties produced graphomaniacs. The Union of Writers of the USSR did not publish this, if I may say so, literature, and the graphomaniacs moved into the offended, the more offended it was EXTREMELY profitable from the most monetary point of view.
          1. Down House
            Down House 22 December 2015 12: 45
            0
            Quote: kit_bellew
            It was not Soviet engineers who lost the information war, primarily because it was not their (engineers) field of activity.

            Quote: kit_bellew
            Filfaki bred graphomaniacs.

            Well, I mean it too, there is little sense from the engineers in the "information war" in the bulk of them - the soldiers for this war are preparing the "philological faculties", but the "philological faculties" of the United States were trained, and ours were preparing the graphomaniacs and backstabbers.
            Quote: kit_bellew
            no one (primarily in the ideological department of the CPSU Central Committee) saw any war, and those who saw fought on the side of the enemy.

            Well, here either the "weapon of the enemy" and we were "outwitted" - or in this war the USSR, which had degraded since the time of Khrushch and still degraded, was really an unviable organism with the impossibility of resuscitation by painless methods request
        2. avia1991
          avia1991 23 December 2015 00: 16
          +2
          Quote: Down House
          It’s a shitty system,

          I’m interested, sorry: what criteria do you use to determine the level of quality of the education system? And yet: "shitty" - what score does it correspond to?
          And the last question: what, in your opinion, is GOOD? To date?..
          1. Down House
            Down House 23 December 2015 00: 49
            0
            Quote: avia1991
            and by what criteria do you determine the level of quality of the education system?

            By the fact that the USSR is no more request
            Quote: avia1991
            And the last question: what, in your opinion, is GOOD?

            It was under kings when children of different abilities, sexes, ages and backgrounds studied SEPARATELY and in different programs hi
      3. Alex
        Alex 22 December 2015 22: 05
        +7
        Quote: fraer
        For your consideration, about the return of the Soviet education system, I present my "thought". This is impossible without restoring the legal field of the USSR

        I'm afraid it's not just the legal field. The ideological field has disappeared. In the struggle against the "consequences of the totalitarian past," they destroyed pride for their Motherland with rapture and enthusiasm, the struggle "for historical truth" turned a bunch of pseudo-historical myths into the light of day, and the "breadth of scientific horizons" turned out to be nothing more than stamping a vinaigrette in people's minds from "Battle of Psychics" and "Discovery". It is understandable, "Obvious - incredible" was not clear (and interesting) for every mediocrity. They now have cool mobile phones and computers, but they are not even able to figure out what all this is for, except for the empty clogging of the Internet and stupid strategies.
        1. fraer
          fraer 22 December 2015 23: 32
          +2
          Quote: Alex
          Alex

          You are right in many ways. Unfortunately time does not work for us. Having received such a crushing blow, many still do not understand. But what happened?
          A generation is lost. The country is destroyed. The authorities are the same, only a little dust, make-up. I just do not see any other way to change this.
    2. Down House
      Down House 22 December 2015 09: 56
      -3
      Quote: Sirocco
      After all, it is known that uneducated people are easier to manage

      And what does the school give so much knowledge that after school, at least in the RAS at least in the research institute? request
      1. Alex
        Alex 22 December 2015 22: 08
        +3
        Quote: Down House
        And what does the school give so much knowledge that after school, at least in the RAS at least in the research institute?

        Exactly so, only through a university. Or is there another way? Like from the hospital right for testing - and into big science?
        1. Down House
          Down House 23 December 2015 00: 51
          -1
          Quote: Alex
          Exactly, only through a university

          So "just like that" or is it "through the university"?
          It's just that if a person is "literate" and has 3 degrees and a "doctoral" jacket, a lot of his intellectual baggage from the school curriculum ?! fellow
          1. Alex
            Alex 23 December 2015 22: 03
            +2
            Exactly so, and precisely through the university. And just don’t follow stories about "nuggets" who were smarter than professors without school education. Such phenomena are unique, which only confirm the general rule: no great science is possible without a solid foundation provided by the school. And in his scientific baggage from the school, perhaps, not much, but this is the foundation, without which no building can stand. And the presence of an ignoramus with a dozen modern diplomas of dubious universities is only a confirmation of the depth of profanation to which modern education has reached.

            In general, the discussion with you, although dynamic, was meaningless: you can argue with the Papuans about genetic engineering with equal success, and I have lost interest in it.
  • Vladimyrych
    Vladimyrych 22 December 2015 06: 23
    17
    Kennedy also said that the space race was lost at the school desk. And already the liquidation of the Amer special services Kennedy says that the guy was not stupid.
    Until Soviet standards of education and medicine are returned, even from the third world Russia will be far away.
    1. Sirocco
      Sirocco 22 December 2015 06: 37
      13
      Quote: Vladimir
      Until Soviet standards of education and medicine are returned, even from the third world Russia will be far away.

      Here I am about that.
      He spoke like that, about a drawing lesson, and never heard of it, the lessons of labor, so-so, on the junk of the middle of the last century, and then just look.
      In our past, more than half of the class attended various circles, including chemistry, physics, and tourism, Skillful hands, sports sections. Now only sports, and then paid, and all competitions at their own expense, or at the expense of the sponsor, if any.
      And modern teachers, this is a separate song about the Pepsi generation.
      So what kind of future are we arguing about here. Our generation will die out, and dances will begin on the graves of their ancestors with tambourines and sticks. Everything goes to this, God forbid that I should be mistaken.
    2. Glot
      Glot 22 December 2015 06: 42
      +7
      Until Soviet standards of education and medicine are returned, even from the third world Russia will be far away.


      Who will return them will be, and most importantly - why?
      Uneducated fools are easier to manage. So they hammer and hammer on the education system, on training. They come up with one thing, then another that would fool people to the end.
      1. Down House
        Down House 22 December 2015 10: 11
        0
        Quote: Glot
        Uneducated fools are easier to manage. So they hammer and hammer on the education system, on training.

        Well, you are an intelligent person - education is, first and foremost, SELF-education, because the modern world is so voluminous and complex that even UNIVERSITY TO UNDERSTAND it is LITTLE UNIVERSITY, and you are funny about school!
        1. avia1991
          avia1991 22 December 2015 22: 40
          +1
          Quote: Down House
          education is first of all self-education

          Have you ever tried to make a student work independently? It’s not necessary to force - to persuade, convince, explain .. And? Give it a try! a great way to tickle your nerves! wink
          Why schoolboy? Because it’s too late to teach a student ..
          Quote: Down House
          to even understand the ABCs of HIGHER EDUCATION INSTITUTION A LITTLE, and you about school are ridiculous!

          This is funny for you. And to teachers despised by you - not at all! Because the "Educational standard" just requires them to teach the student not just AZAM - but to bring him to the state of "beginner specialist"! And note - without any self-education, because most parents remember school only at the end of the quarter, and self-intensively a child often cannot even understand the essence of tasks for self-sustained work .. And this is not his fault - this is the fault of those idiots from education who write abstruse textbooks, make abstruse assignments .. often without having a day of practical work as a teacher.
          1. Down House
            Down House 23 December 2015 00: 53
            0
            Quote: avia1991
            Have you ever tried to make a student work independently?

            And he cannot be forced, he can only be interested - and what could interest him in a "teacher" working "for 5000" because with her "character" she will be taken nowhere else - what guidelines will she give him to follow ?! fellow
        2. Alex
          Alex 22 December 2015 22: 58
          +3
          Precisely because
          Quote: Down House
          the modern world is so voluminous and complex

          education is not possible only in SAMO mode. And in ancient Greece, this simple truth was understood much better than you: learning is impossible without mistakes, and one of the functions of a teacher is to show them. explain their cause and show the ways of correction. And so we will have a breakthrough of all sorts of Doctors of Seminolary Sciences and academic sanctuaries.
          1. Down House
            Down House 23 December 2015 00: 54
            0
            Quote: Alex
            education is not possible only in SAMO mode.

            That’s no need for fairy tales, it’s full of professions (for example, a doctor or a lawyer) where even after receiving a diploma without further self-education throughout your career you will not go far hi
            1. Alex
              Alex 23 December 2015 21: 36
              +3
              Quote: Down House
              That’s no need for fairy tales, it’s full of professions (for example, a doctor or a lawyer) where even after receiving a diploma without further self-education throughout your career you will not go far

              Let's decide. If you are talking about the self-improvement of any specialist (not just a doctor or a lawyer), then without constant and painstaking work on yourself, there is no question of any improvement. But we, as I understand it, are talking about the basic, i.e. Primary education, which is simply impossible in principle without a teacher.

              And in general, Vanya, you are frankly not in the subject, you are not a teacher, you have not worked at school for a day and have not conducted a single lesson in your life. All your maxims are nothing more than a set of liberoid clichés and commonplace judgments about the work of a teacher. If you want to express your opinion - you have every right to do so, but please, supply your statements with phrases like "in my opinion", "I think so", "I think so" or "maybe I'm wrong". Perhaps then you will at least look like an intelligent person.
    3. Down House
      Down House 22 December 2015 10: 08
      -8
      Quote: Vladimir
      They lost the race at the school desk.

      And judging by the quality of the "soviet teachers" after Kennedy, we are losing this race!
      Therefore, before Urya-to be proud of the "Soviet education system" it would be better to know how Soviet education under Stalin was different from Soviet education after Khrushch!
      Under Stalin, education (including secondary education) was mostly paid, and in the same school, 100500 now unknown subjects, from "logic" to something else, were taught - and it was from these school desks that people then launched the world's first cosmonaut satellites into Space !
      And in the late scoop with school desks, only snot-paper was launched into teacher-losers and thought how to skip classes and drink beer in the yard!
      1. avia1991
        avia1991 22 December 2015 10: 47
        +4
        Quote: Down House
        Under Stalin, education (including secondary) was mostly paid,

        You, sir, didn’t mess up the era, for an hour?
        Well, official materials - to the studio! Hotstsa himself to see confirmation!
        1. Down House
          Down House 22 December 2015 12: 08
          0
          Quote: avia1991
          You, sir, didn’t mess up the era, for an hour?
          Well, official materials - to the studio! Hotstsa himself to see confirmation!

          Google:

          Decree of the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR “On the establishment of tuition fees in high schools and higher educational institutions of the USSR and on changing the order of scholarships.
          Decree of the Council of Ministers of the USSR "On the abolition of tuition fees in high schools of secondary schools, in secondary specialized and higher educational institutions of the USSR." (1956 if that!)

          The fee averaged 5-10% per child per year of the annual income of a family member and was canceled only in 1956 after Stalin.
          By the way, free "general" education under Stalin was 7 classes (from 56 to 8), but only in fairly large "urban-type settlements" and only from 1937 - and in villages and small settlements until Khrushch, the bulk of them were taught "3 classes "and in the field to collect grain (and in cities after the 7th grade, turn the nuts to the plant).
          Poor you know your story, my friend! fellow
          1. avia1991
            avia1991 22 December 2015 22: 56
            0
            Quote: Down House
            Poor you know your story, my friend!

            Do not you recall, dear, when Stalin came to power?
            And when did the decision you indicated come out? .. Not so many years there has been a free education, right? From 1921 to 1940, it was almost 20 years old. During this time, those who created the weapons of Victory and laid the foundation for the future defense power of the USSR were educated and became experts, including defense enterprises! .. It wasn't so bad as you are trying to portray.
            1. Down House
              Down House 23 December 2015 00: 57
              0
              Quote: avia1991
              From 1921 to 1940, it was almost 20 years old.

              The fact of the matter is that it was not "universal" all this time - we think, my friend, it's better hi
              Quote: avia1991
              Not so bad as you are trying to portray.

              No, on the contrary, I think that under Stalin it was GOOD - we just 99% do not know how it really was under Stalin fellow
      2. Vladimyrych
        Vladimyrych 22 December 2015 11: 21
        0
        Quote: Down House
        before Urya is proud of the "Soviet education system"

        You have to be easier respected. Do you know anything about the Great Soviet Union? Have you heard the pigs? Shut up. Do not quote dibiloids. You will look smarter.
      3. a housewife
        a housewife 22 December 2015 15: 08
        +2
        I have never heard of a paid education under Stalin !!! In my family, only my grandmother (born 1916) had 3 classes of the school, which she was proud of. The rest - full secondary, technical schools and universities. Everything is free. I’m talking about those who studied under Stalin — my relatives and my husband. And in the literature of those times not a single mention of payment. Why such nonsense ?!
        1. Down House
          Down House 22 December 2015 15: 34
          +1
          Quote: housewife
          I have never heard of a paid education under Stalin !!!

          I wrote above:
          Decree No. 1860 of the Council of People's Commissars of the USSR "On the establishment of tuition fees in high schools and higher educational institutions of the USSR and on changing the procedure for appointing scholarships."
          The words FACILITY OF EDUCATION and SCHOLARSHIP do not say anything? request
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. avia1991
            avia1991 22 December 2015 22: 58
            0
            Quote: Down House
            I wrote above:
            Decree No. 1860 of the SNK of the USSR

            And add:
            from 2 October 1940
            Is that all right? And what was before?
            And before that he acted
            Decree of the All-Russian Central Executive Committee from December 16 to 1921 "On the prohibition of mandatory fees in all Soviet educational institutions"
            1. Down House
              Down House 23 December 2015 00: 58
              0
              Quote: avia1991
              Is that all right? And what was before?

              And before that it was free, but NOT UNIVERSAL - but only with paid it became "UNIVERSAL" - think Dear about this more precisely hi
  • Mikhail m
    Mikhail m 22 December 2015 06: 24
    +3
    I was lucky, I studied according to the old program. Our course passed matan with an average score of 3,5-3,7. The next stream, trained under the new program (long before the introduction of the USE), passed with an average score of 2,6-2,8. The teachers were in shock. The current children of the exam, I suspect, will not even be able to spell the name of this discipline correctly. The problems began already back in 1977. Since then, the situation has only worsened.
    1. Alexei
      Alexei 22 December 2015 06: 46
      +6
      The problem is that there is too much distracting and entertaining around today. And according to this, modern educational methods are aimed at developing the speed of obtaining the desired answer to the question, which in turn negatively affects the student’s analytical abilities and completely ruins critical thinking. After sitting over the books in the USSR, you could find the answer to the same question from different points of view and from different angles, and giving the answer itself with its own corrections is a serious experience. And in the IQ assignment, you need to put the figure under No.1. wink
    2. Alexdark
      Alexdark 22 December 2015 08: 22
      +3
      Well, let’s not generalize, all in the comb one revenge. A lot of guys means they are doing very well, they really chew on granite, and just because they have to pass the exam in the final, you wrote them down. Do not eat well!
    3. Down House
      Down House 22 December 2015 10: 17
      0
      Quote: Mikhail M
      The problems began already back in 1977.

      Exactly, that the problems of our education are the problems of the STILL the Soviet system of education - now they are trying to catch up with the "world level" to train normal specialists in such a quantity, neither the economy needs them in such quantity either request
  • Concealer
    Concealer 22 December 2015 06: 27
    +4
    Only a deep understanding of the nature of intelligence, a complete lack of ideas about the mind and consciousness can cause such an initiative. A proposal clearly indicating a complete lack of fundamental knowledge.
    "You can be a smart person and think about the beauty of nails";)
    1. Stanislas
      Stanislas 22 December 2015 06: 45
      +2
      Quote: Concealer
      "You can be a smart person and think about the beauty of your nails"
      Only not "smart", but "efficient" in Pushkin. And I agree with A.S., more efficient than smart)).
  • evgeny1979
    evgeny1979 22 December 2015 06: 27
    +6
    Again, something is being invented to make people stupid and it’s understandable why, return the bastards to the old system everything was fine !!!
  • horoh
    horoh 22 December 2015 06: 28
    +5
    Quote: Sirocco
    I have long had a doubt crept in on the competence of ministers in education.

    Yes, almost all have this doubt crept in, which is the only textbooks that they accept, especially the elementary grades.
  • parusnik
    parusnik 22 December 2015 06: 28
    +3
    Serdyuk, another mishandled Cossack, sir ..
  • 1536
    1536 22 December 2015 06: 30
    +2
    "He's good, he'll go by himself ..."
  • Tatar 174
    Tatar 174 22 December 2015 06: 36
    +9
    To the question of the deputy Mikhail Serdyuk from the photo, one can answer this way: Because the usual common sense in many decisions and actions of the State Duma of the Russian Federation and the Government is severely lacking. What can not be said about the people, where common sense is the main thing, without which the people would not exist long ago. Maybe for fun, or maybe seriously, advice for both the State Duma and the government. Check all your decisions and actions for common sense. Instead of many ministries, you can create and leave one ministry - the Ministry of Common Sense, i.e. what common sense tells you to do and then we will be alive and well.
    1. Svetlana
      Svetlana 22 December 2015 16: 07
      +3
      Quote: Tatar 174
      Because the lack of ordinary common sense in many decisions and actions of the State Duma of the Russian Federation and the Government.

      They don’t have a powerful folk pendal in the ass. Common sense would immediately be found.
  • Same lech
    Same lech 22 December 2015 06: 37
    +6
    Russian lawmakers propose to replace or "improve" the USE with IQ tests


    I demand to replace such legislators ... with more sane ones ... I demand a check of their brains for IQ compliance ... as well as the sizes of their brains in three coordinates
    for compliance with the standard brain of the species Homo sapiens.

    Part of the State Duma are representatives of Neanderthaloids .... Christmas trees sticks ... where deputies with such innovations are rolling what what
    1. avia1991
      avia1991 22 December 2015 07: 43
      +4
      Quote: The same LYOKHA
      I demand the replacement of such legislators.

      Who else would hear such demands ..
      It seems that the President takes out the earplugs only when meeting with Kerry and the like ..
  • perm23
    perm23 22 December 2015 06: 37
    +4
    He himself would be checked first of all, and the rest. Damn the lawmakers. From idleness, they were completely dumb. And how to deal with these deputies? How to get rid of such figures, otherwise Russia will not be from such innovations. Poku smart work, fools breed.
    1. avia1991
      avia1991 22 December 2015 07: 41
      +3
      Quote: perm23
      And how to deal with these deputies? How to get rid of such figures

      HOW TO ELSE - History teaches this. And this is far from the most difficult question.
      The most difficult - how to prevent the appearance of SUCH SAME in the power structures AFTER the obsolescence of the former?
  • Moore
    Moore 22 December 2015 06: 44
    +5
    Against this background, representatives of the legislative authority of the country propose to walk even in terms of the IQ level of Russian schoolchildren. Like, a large IQ indicator - you need to take to the university, you must give way. Well, if only a small one - at once “hello to the family” - let them figure out where to attach the child with the available indicator of his IQ.

    You can also check the shape of skulls and noses. Yes, and digging into the pedigree is not harmful.
    Somewhere it was already, in my opinion ...
  • Good cat
    Good cat 22 December 2015 06: 53
    +1
    Down with the exam, the sooner the better!
  • Born in USSR
    Born in USSR 22 December 2015 06: 53
    +1
    About EDUCATION who only does not speak. Discussions are everywhere, but to the point. At the top taxis from the west. There alone commerce and managers sit. They need smart people, they need slaves. And in other things upstairs everywhere. Avon again the warriors distinguished themselves again for the kickbacks shaking. And if you dig everywhere and for bribes and fraud in large sizes such as more than 1000 thousand, execution. Yes, there will be no one to steer us, everyone will pull someone to where. For the salary for them is an occasion to go to work and only, the main income from theft.
    1. Down House
      Down House 22 December 2015 10: 20
      -3
      Quote: Born in the USSR
      They need smart people, they need slaves.

      By the way, this is also correct, you can put at least 1000 minuses, but if all the "educated" are, then who will work ?!
      There is even an anecdote - the student learned all the tickets in philosophy but did not come to the exam - because "everything in this world is meaningless vanity"! fellow
      1. avia1991
        avia1991 23 December 2015 00: 24
        0
        Quote: Down House
        if all the "educated" will then who will go to work ?!

        That is, you think, while at the same time claiming that the modern world is a daunting thing, that a 9th grade graduate of a special school can quite confidently work at the machine tool .. SO? Or did you mean "a completely different education"?
        This is, in fact, not about universal higher education - but about high-quality secondary education. Problems start from here, not at the university ..
        1. Down House
          Down House 23 December 2015 00: 59
          0
          Quote: avia1991
          This is, in fact, not about universal higher education - but about high-quality secondary education.

          And "for the machine" you do not need a high-quality secondary, a sufficiently high-quality primary + vocational school hi
      2. Bort radist
        Bort radist 23 December 2015 04: 32
        +1
        Quote: Down House
        but if all the "educated" are, then who will work ?!

        In Japan, the universal higher, do not work badly.
        The tendency is directly proportional, the less intelligence and knowledge, the greater the desire to "teach" everyone and less work.
  • Very old
    Very old 22 December 2015 07: 03
    +7
    Quote: horoh
    Citizen Serdyuk is a new reformer like Serdyukov ???


    You need to start with yourself: elections to the State Duma on the USE (looks beautiful).
    This number is ONCE

    And so that IQ is higher than the monkey ...
    This is TWO

    For a double salary, you could do business
  • Mik13
    Mik13 22 December 2015 07: 08
    +3
    In a statement Serdyuk not a word about IQ no.
    He said a completely different thing:
    For the full disclosure and further development of innate abilities, a systematic assessment approach is required. In addition, unlike standard test items, which are still the only but long-lost objective measure of student performance, there is a need for differentiated tests aimed at a comprehensive analysis of their capabilities.

    By the way, in the USSR such a comprehensive analysis was used - not only in children, but in the selection in some professions. Professional selection was called.

    And about the testing, which the exam, he just did not say anything good.

    So it would be nice to first carefully read and understand the text and then comment.
    1. Volodin
      22 December 2015 13: 30
      +1
      Follow the links at least another time so that you don't write this "There is not a word about IQ in Serdyuk's statement". The article contains a reference to Izvestia, which contains all the materials on the deputy's proposal.
      1. Mik13
        Mik13 22 December 2015 16: 07
        +3
        Quote: Volodin
        Follow the links at least another time so that you don't write this "There is not a word about IQ in Serdyuk's statement". The article contains a reference to Izvestia, which contains all the materials on the deputy's proposal.

        Followed the link - and wrote only after that.
        The entire Internet is full of interviews, the source is exactly that article, but in the article itself is not an interview, but a brief retelling of the contents of the interview in the words of the journalist. There are no references to the source in Izvestia. And you quoted the only fragment of Serdyuk’s direct speech.

        And then in the article there really are words about IQ - but these are the words of Maya Pildes and the clarification of the journalist. There are two interviews in one for some reason ..

        By the way, it would be nice to read the text of the appeal to Livanov.
        Because, for example, I saw in the deputy's words constructive criticism of the Unified State Exam, and not at all a proposal to hang Eysenck tests on the Unified State Exam from above, as one might think thanks to the authors of the Izvestia newspaper.

        PS - I initially criticized the article in Izvestia.
        And then - a friendly collective of VO commentators, which has a obscene habit of reading only the heading in an article.
        1. Volodin
          22 December 2015 16: 16
          0
          Did you follow another link? According to the one where the deputy Serdyuk himself on his own website refers to the article in Izvestia. If he has nothing to do with this proposal (about IQ) or does not support it, why then publishes a link to this particular newspaper article?
          1. Mik13
            Mik13 22 December 2015 16: 33
            0
            Quote: Volodin
            Did you follow another link? According to the one where the deputy Serdyuk himself on his own website refers to the article in Izvestia. If he had nothing to do with this proposal (about IQ), then why would he publish a link to this particular newspaper article?

            And the other one for some reason gives me an error. So I didn’t go.
            But the essence of his proposal - in that small piece is stated, KVM.
            For the full disclosure and further development of innate abilities, a systematic assessment approach is required. In addition, unlike standard test items, which are still the only but long-lost objective measure of student performance, there is a need for differentiated tests aimed at a comprehensive analysis of their capabilities.

            The fact is that I am not familiar with the methodology for using these tests (which are on IQ). Even in order to allow a fighter to guard duty, the amount of research is multiple. And then - there are sometimes such surprises ... So this method does not attract either a comprehensive or a systematic approach.

            And the expressions "systematic assessment approach"And"comprehensive benchmarking tests"look like a clear opposition to expression"standard test items, which until now remain the only, but have long lost their objectivity measure of student performance", which the author characterized the USE.

            The trees are green, well, he's a deputy after all. He is a type of professional, and a professional cannot use the words "delusional delirium" and other various idioms ... In any case, in the Russian Federation.
            1. Stanislas
              Stanislas 22 December 2015 18: 08
              0
              Quote: Mik13
              neither a comprehensive nor a systematic approach draws this method
              Not only testing, but NOT ONE method of psychology pulls because of the acute deficit of consistency in psychology itself, noted by L.S. Vygotsky. back at the beginning of the 20th century, which was confirmed by competent psychologists at a round table on this topic at Moscow State University at the beginning of the 21st century. You wrote about professional selection in the USSR, but this is a profanation; it fell apart because nobody needed it, and the emerging "bounty hunters" (hunter agencies) do not work at all in Holland with Zhuravlev and Klimov. Experience and recommendations work there. hi
              1. Mik13
                Mik13 23 December 2015 03: 59
                0
                Quote: Stanislav
                Quote: Mik13
                neither a comprehensive nor a systematic approach draws this method
                Not only testing, but NOT ONE method of psychology pulls because of the acute deficit of consistency in psychology itself, noted by L.S. Vygotsky. back at the beginning of the 20th century, which was confirmed by competent psychologists at a round table on this topic at Moscow State University at the beginning of the 21st century. You wrote about professional selection in the USSR, but this is a profanation; it fell apart because nobody needed it, and the emerging "bounty hunters" (hunter agencies) do not work at all in Holland with Zhuravlev and Klimov. Experience and recommendations work there. hi


                Professional selection in the USSR is, for example, selection upon admission to a flight school or to service in some specific services. Of course, it does not give an absolute guarantee, but most of the unusable ones are eliminated.

                Again, one can easily pull up an oral exam again to Serdyuk's statement about the "systemic evaluative approach" and "comprehensive analysis of possibilities" - as an element of comprehensive analysis.
                1. Stanislas
                  Stanislas 23 December 2015 10: 39
                  0
                  Quote: Mik13
                  Of course, it does not give an absolute guarantee, but most of the unusable ones are eliminated.
                  It does not give any guarantee at all - neither that it will let anyone in, nor that it will weed out the unsuitable. Have you ever come across the fact that a psychologist was responsible "under warranty" for his lack of professionalism? Or are they all polls superprofessional, work without mistakes and negligence? The doctors answer, they ask the teachers, they involve officials and law enforcement officers, and these only "help to solve the problem", but the one who pays makes the decision himself and is responsible for everything.
                  I, in fact, wrote about Vygotsky's work "The Historical Meaning of the Psychological Crisis", here you can still debate, and you are giving arguments from the category of popular tales about psychology. Please answer, where, from what ceiling did you get the quantitative characteristic "majority" (about "unsuitable weed out")? Who, where and how did this "majority" count? Where is the research confirming the effectiveness of the work of psychologists in any area? Or does it seem self-evident to you, and you bring the "position of common sense" to me, believing that I am completely deprived of it? Psychology is somewhat akin to economics: it can explain anything, issue any streamlined predictions, and then explain beautifully why even they were not confirmed.
                  1. Mik13
                    Mik13 23 December 2015 16: 40
                    +1
                    Quote: Stanislav
                    I, in fact, wrote about Vygotsky's work "The Historical Meaning of the Psychological Crisis", here you can still debate, and you are giving arguments from the category of popular tales about psychology. Please answer, where, from what ceiling did you get the quantitative characteristic "majority" (about "unsuitable weed out")? Who, where and how did this "majority" count? Where is the research confirming the effectiveness of the work of psychologists in any area?
                    Sorry, my competence in this matter is the competence of the consumer. I am familiar with the basics - but nothing more. So I am not able to discuss the matter deeply.
                    I only know how to correctly set a task for a psychologist. laughing

                    Quote: Stanislav
                    Have you ever come across the fact that a psychologist was responsible "under warranty" for his lack of professionalism?
                    Yes, I came across. Details, sorry, will not be.

                    Quote: Stanislav
                    Or are they all polls superprofessional, work without mistakes and negligence? The doctors answer, they ask the teachers, they involve officials and law enforcement officers, and these only "help to solve the problem", but the one who pays makes the decision himself and is responsible for everything.

                    Clinical psychology is medicine, actually. With all the consequences.
                    I suggest you finish offtopic - you want to continue the discussion - in PM.
        2. Svetlana
          Svetlana 22 December 2015 16: 25
          +3
          Quote: Mik13
          By the way, it would be nice to read the text of the appeal to Livanov.
          Because, for example, I saw in the deputy's words constructive criticism of the Unified State Exam, and not at all a proposal to hang Eysenck tests on the Unified State Exam from above, as one might think thanks to the authors of the Izvestia newspaper.

          If you correctly identified everything following the results of your investigation, then most likely no one will support this initiative. It is contrary to government policy. And it is aimed, as many have said here, on the complete dullness of new generations of people. This is happening both in our country and throughout the world. Only to stun us is much more difficult. Our genes are strong, they are difficult to dull. Nevertheless, considerable successes have been achieved in this field. In the generation of 20-30 of today's summer people, in relation to the generation of those who were 20-30 years at least 20 years ago, there are more illiterates. Most of them with higher education - lawyers and managers - almost do not know how to write in Russian. Express your thoughts too. Russian words are replaced with English or some primitive slang. Of course, there are educated and competent young people, but somehow very few.
  • Neophyte
    Neophyte 22 December 2015 07: 12
    +5
    Serdyuki from the State Duma are concerned about the disorder of the people? And then they raised their salaries to 600-800 thousand rubles! It was disgusting to see these joyful faces when they sang in unison in a thought.
    1. avia1991
      avia1991 22 December 2015 08: 36
      0
      Quote: Neophyte
      raised their salaries to 600-800 thousand rubles!

      Where does the data come from?
      Spitting - as simple as that. But it would be nice to compare the volume of spitting with reality .. hi
      As for the salary - "Fair Russia" has its own opinion on this. Read their Program? It is small .. (Program lol )
      1. Ingvar 72
        Ingvar 72 22 December 2015 14: 13
        +1
        Quote: avia1991
        "Fair Russia" has its own opinion on this.

        Uncle SJ also speaks beautifully, but what's the point?
  • CONTROL
    CONTROL 22 December 2015 07: 16
    +4
    IQ, IQ ...
    ... "Even at school, during professorship lectures, I already kept a bank for my comrades under the bench." ...
    ... "Do you remember, Shvokhnev, this extraordinary child? ... A boy of eleven years old, the son of Ivan Mikhalovich Kubyshev, jerks with such skill as none of the players! Go to Tetyushevsky district and see! ... Misha, ... come here, show your guest art! " Well, boy, just a child, I won't be on the shoulder, and there is nothing special in my eyes. He started throwing - I was just lost. This surpasses any description. "... (N.V. Gogol" The Players ")

    ... There are different IQs! It depends on where the talent is directed ... Otherwise, we get some Chubais nito ... or Mavrodi ... or - (it’s said off the table, I’m sorry for any possible nausea .. .) - Novodvorskaya! ...
    1. AlNikolaich
      AlNikolaich 22 December 2015 07: 52
      +1
      Well, there is only one ai-ky ... Like talent, and the general development of personality! And for the characters you have listed, a decent aikyu is only for Mavrodi! For the other two, he somehow did not ask ...
  • vfqjh
    vfqjh 22 December 2015 07: 20
    +3
    Let them check their IQ from the beginning. There are already a lot of doubts about their competence.
  • Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 22 December 2015 07: 21
    +4
    To put a passing ball on IQ 120, this is in the Duma, and there will be no more such idiots with their projections. Although I must say, there are no fools there. But their motivation ...
    1. avia1991
      avia1991 22 December 2015 08: 38
      +2
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      there are no fools. But their motivation ...

      That’s sad .. Their would-be talent — but to serve the people! ... crying
      lol
    2. Vasilenko Vladimir
      Vasilenko Vladimir 22 December 2015 08: 45
      +2
      Quote: Mountain Shooter
      Although I must say, there are no fools

      when discussing underpants and slippers, it seemed otherwise
  • xorgi
    xorgi 22 December 2015 07: 22
    +6
    Again they write nonsense about the exam they write. DEAR Children are not smart right now for one reason: parents don’t need them, that's the point! If you do not care about your children, then who needs them except you ?! Instead of raising children, you spend all your free time on websites solving world problems!
    According to IQ, I agree with the author, a stupid test with an ambiguous solution, and the answers are unambiguous.
    1. Down House
      Down House 22 December 2015 10: 50
      +1
      Quote: xorgi
      Children are not smart right now for one reason: parents don’t need them, that's the point!

      IT IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE - now the children do not need their parents - but Putin is to blame fellow
      1. afdjhbn67
        afdjhbn67 22 December 2015 10: 55
        +4
        Quote: Down House
        IT IS ABSOLUTELY TRUE - now the children do not need their parents - but Putin is to blame

        When the company is bent - is it the fault of the loader or director ??
        1. Down House
          Down House 22 December 2015 12: 09
          -1
          Quote: afdjhbn67
          When the company is bent - is it the fault of the loader or director ??

          The main thing is that the loader does not answer for anything, do not like it, go to another place fellow
          1. I read the news
            I read the news 22 December 2015 12: 50
            +2
            And you do not tell the loader where to go, otherwise the loader will tell you where to go.
            1. Down House
              Down House 22 December 2015 13: 17
              -1
              Quote: I readNews
              otherwise the loader will tell you where to go.

              But the loader initially does not have such a right, the orders of the senior management do not discuss fellow
        2. xorgi
          xorgi 22 December 2015 13: 05
          0
          afdjhbn67. In this analogy, it is not the “enterprise” (country) that is “bent”, but the “cargo” (children) due to the fact that the “loader” (parents) does not want to treat it properly. The guilt of the "director" is undoubtedly, but this does not remove the guilt from the "loader".
          1. Down House
            Down House 22 December 2015 13: 18
            -1
            Quote: xorgi
            The guilt of the "director" is undoubtedly, but this does not remove the guilt from the "loader".

            The thing is that they have always been like that at all times, read Chevengur, for example, about "citizen" - very colorful hi
            1. xorgi
              xorgi 22 December 2015 13: 39
              0
              I agree, but in Soviet times they found leverage. Now they are not there, that’s one of the reasons for this disgrace.
              1. Down House
                Down House 22 December 2015 13: 51
                -4
                Quote: xorgi
                I agree, but in Soviet times they found leverage.

                This is when, when every city "district to district" fought, and only in the 90s did it become "gangs"?
                Or when in the USSR they drank colognes, and then alcoholism appeared in the Russian Federation?
                Or when the poor students were "taken in tow", distracting the teachers and excellent students for this time, calling this nonsense "camaraderie"?
                Do not you find that these "loaders" were "leveled" with leverage for our money, when under capitalism they simply settle in the "ghetto" where even the police do not go as unnecessary?
                1. Cobra77
                  Cobra77 22 December 2015 17: 56
                  +3
                  Quote: Down House
                  Do not you find that these "loaders" were "leveled" with leverage for our money, when under capitalism they simply settle in the "ghetto" where even the police do not go as unnecessary?


                  Yeah. Tell us about trailer parks. About black and Mexican quarters.

                  Yes, let's make a ghetto. It's so democratic and freedom-loving. Produce people beyond the law and society. The fact that the children of those "loaders" will not be able to get out of there, we don't care. Social lift? Have not heard. Sitting on social networks, drug dealing, gangs of several hundred members, riots and robberies at any convenient opportunity. Yes, this is what is needed for the country and society. Maybe it’s enough to talk nonsense and think a little about the consequences of such policies?


                  And tell us about school education in the First Democracy, not just about private schools, but about ordinary ones. Separately, stop at schools in not-so-good areas.
                  1. Down House
                    Down House 22 December 2015 18: 18
                    -1
                    Quote: cobra77
                    Produce people beyond law and society.

                    They will always be, but their separate living is better for normal people - there were "workers' quarters" in the RI-USSR, for the most "talented" hard labor and exile - the separation of different social groups is normal and natural.
                    And now we have the same thing, ordinary citizens live in "dormitory areas" - more or less financially successful in the private sector, new buildings with a security barrier request
                    Quote: cobra77
                    Social elevator? They didn’t hear.

                    Quote: cobra77
                    Separately, stop at schools in not-so-good areas.

                    Why stop?
                    Separate living is not a hindrance to a social elevator at all in any way - with a separate education as well!
                    1. Cobra77
                      Cobra77 22 December 2015 20: 24
                      +2
                      Quote: Down House
                      They will always be, but their separate living is better for normal people - there were "workers' quarters" in the RI-USSR, for the most "talented" hard labor and exile - the separation of different social groups is normal and natural.
                      And now we have the same thing, ordinary citizens live in "dormitory areas" - more or less financially successful in the private sector, new buildings with a security barrier


                      Will be. But there is a difference when you have thousands or millions of them. Thousands can be controlled, millions not. And in fact, these are just discarded people. Not because they are useless, but because it seems cheaper under capitalism. But getting into the ghetto is in no way connected with a person’s abilities in most cases, like rich people are not the most intelligent and useful members of society. And there’s nothing to say about those who were born in these ghettos, they simply don’t have a chance to rise. Have many of the black neighborhoods been educated and have a good job? And how many have a criminal record or are in gangs? Think about why.

                      About RI is a bad example. Think about why the three revolutions happened and why the Bolsheviks won the civil war. This will give an understanding of what RI was in social and social terms. Do not level up with the USSR. These are completely different states.

                      Let's remember a simple example. Homelessness after the civil. Remember what the leadership of the Union did and what were the results? Many well-known engineers and scientists in the USSR were from there. Of course, there were no businessmen :)

                      Working quarters in the USSR are not the same as black ones in the States or the suburbs of Paris. Workers lived there, not gopniks and bandits. There was order and law. They were not on the sidelines of society. Were part of it, being a worker was not shameful. There was no hard labor in the USSR, if Che. Do not mix everything in a bunch.

                      Exactly the same does not need to be given as an example of the Russian Federation. We are just slipping into the US model, although not so fast, fortunately. Nevertheless, the USSR laid a solid foundation.


                      Quote: Down House
                      Why stop?


                      Yes of course. The question is not convenient ....

                      Quote: Down House
                      Separate living is not a hindrance to a social elevator at all in any way - with a separate education as well!


                      What are you talking about? Here it is. With paid education, the ghetto, and the understanding that the schools in the ghetto will be, well, not at all. Well, if at all.


                      Stop pulling the owl on the globe. While in your version I see a banal segregation and caste system. Also coupled with elements of fascism. Do you want to live like that in the States - a flag in hand. Only we do not need to rub.
                      1. Down House
                        Down House 23 December 2015 01: 12
                        -2
                        Quote: cobra77
                        About RI is a bad example. Think about why the three revolutions happened and why the Bolsheviks won the civil war.

                        I know all this in those years on the side of the Bolsheviks - but education in the Republic of Ingushetia was still better than under Khrushchev and beyond hi
                        Quote: cobra77
                        Thousands can be controlled, millions not.

                        Yes, hundreds of millions control, believe me.
                        Quote: cobra77
                        With paid education, the ghetto, and the understanding that the schools in the ghetto will be, well, not at all. Well, if at all.

                        That's exactly what I am therefore saying that education should be SEPARATE, including so that talented children from the ghetto could not go to the local "school" but to a SPECIAL one for the gifted.
                        Therefore for you and again hi
                        The wealthy do not want to live in communal apartments and working districts, they want to live in large houses and prosperous neighborhoods - this is logical.
                        Over time, this leads to the formation of safe and unsuccessful quarters with a corresponding difference in the value of real estate and infrastructure - this is inevitable.
                        Everything is clear with the rich, they have money and they spend it on raising children in private schools - this is their money and their choice cannot be given to them.
                        And what about those who are "unlucky" to live in a poor neighborhood?
                        Their children go to the local "school" for the future poor, criminals and drug addicts.
                        Well, if the child is poor but talented? This requires a special scholarship and a separate school - in the ordinary they will not reveal their potential.
                        So where am I wrong? request
                        Oh yes, I think that "special schools" should be only for a small part of the poor, and the rest should be able to read Hatit? Yes, I know what I'm talking about, believe me! hi
                      2. Down House
                        Down House 23 December 2015 01: 42
                        -1
                        Quote: Down House
                        Yes, I know what I'm talking about, believe me!

                        And especially for you I will give examples.
                        Of my class, half of my classmates who graduated from 11 classes (if anything is already under Putin) and then the university got a job as cashiers-sellers of shops "closer to home" - I ask why they studied 11 classes on budget money, and then another 5 years at the university for parenting, if you don't need to work as a saleswoman at all, well, a maximum of 5 classes plus courses request
                        With classmates, the same thing, half of those who finished 11 classes and the university works as a driver, some as a seller, some as a loader (he drank too much) - and I'm serious !!! Is it necessary to study at a university to work as a driver-loader? Yes, for this 5 classes and courses will be enough fellow
                        And you think maybe they initially "gave hope"? NO - 2 and 3 and absenteeism!
                        And these are not my examples only, I have a lot of friends (including my wife) with the same stories with whom I discussed the topic of education.
                        So where am I wrong, please tell request
                    2. Down House
                      Down House 23 December 2015 01: 14
                      -1
                      Quote: cobra77
                      While in your version I see a banal segregation and caste system. Also coupled with elements of fascism.

                      Well, you exaggerate, I'm certainly not a fan of democracy and consumer society, but calling me a fascist is already too much laughing
                2. Stanislas
                  Stanislas 22 December 2015 20: 18
                  0
                  Quote: cobra77
                  It is so democratic and freedom-loving. Produce people beyond law and society.
                  Their democracy began with reservations. If you want to be an Indian, be one. And the drinking of Indians, drugs for blacks and Mexican ghettos, riots ... Everything is under their control, "controlled chaos" is called. There are also places where money can be spent, if any. The main thing, nmv, in their management is apartheid, so that clients do not intersect with them in the same space and do not get along with each other.
  • Ros 56
    Ros 56 22 December 2015 07: 30
    +7
    Of course, the discussion of the education system in the country requires a large amount of initial data and their analysis. And already on the basis of the results obtained, it is necessary to conduct a broad discussion with the involvement of scientists, teachers, the public and, of course, representatives of higher educational institutions and, which is important, and maybe even the most priority representatives of industry and production. Since graduates come to production, design bureaus, laboratories, etc. If we want the country to go "ahead of the rest of the world" in terms of technology development and be competitive, let's just make a systematic analysis of various schools, Soviet and current, with its USE, naturally, taking into account the development of current information technologies. For some reason, it seems to me, had we at one time 30-40 years ago the current level of information, things would have been different for us.
    But even at that level of development, graduates of 70-80 schools in my opinion were ahead of the current level of knowledge. Whether we want it or not, but all that our industry is using now is created or is based on the Soviet knowledge luggage. And why was it necessary to ruin what the whole world recognized, even America, which our liberals love to refer to. I myself gave almost 20 years of life to working with children, though not in school, but in the system of additional education, as they say now. And it was from our pupils that pilots, navigators, navigators, engineers and designers grew up, and by the way pretty competent workers. And these are all IQs, what do they give? Yes, essentially nothing. Geniuses can be both positive and negative. And to teach the child something sensible that will benefit the country and people, instill in him a sense of patriotism and thereby increase his self-esteem, this will be the highest IQ. Enough to ruin the education system, it’s time to turn on the brains, or else fortunetellers will be in our government - here the oil will rise in price, here we will live well - and we?
    1. avia1991
      avia1991 22 December 2015 08: 47
      +2
      Quote: Ros 56
      It is necessary to hold a broad discussion with the involvement of scientists, teachers, the public and, of course, representatives of higher educational institutions and, importantly, maybe even the most priority representatives of industry and production.

      You write everything correctly, Yuri ..
      But the Teachers (with the big one!) In Russia have been sounding the alarm for many years, and offer to do, in particular, what you are talking about. DOES ANYONE HEAR THEM? I doubt it ..
      Quote: Ros 56
      it was from our pupils that pilots, navigators, navigators, engineers and designers grew up, and by the way pretty competent workers.

      It was WHEN, can I find out?
      When the competent motivation of the whole nation, when all people HAVE A UNITING GOAL ahead - yes, it is possible! And if "every man for himself", without perspective in the Future, in the conditions of Putin's favorite "free market" .. so will the "effective" steer the "herd" - and will do everything to ensure that the "herd" dull further.
  • avia1991
    avia1991 22 December 2015 07: 37
    +4
    I will not tire of repeating: the education system is methodically and consistently crumbling, since the ruling elites do not need smart, competent and thinking people! For then it is extremely difficult to manage ..
    Gref said: if you give people knowledge, if they can realize their I - HOW CAN YOU MANAGE THIS SOCIETY ?! Not exactly verbatim - but the essence is the same.
    And this policy aimed at destroying the education system is one of the elements - along with the collapse of medicine, deindustrialization, and the introduction of consumer psychology into the consciousness of the masses - carried out by agents of influence on the collapse of Russia. NO MORE, NO LESS.
  • Darth Revan
    Darth Revan 22 December 2015 07: 43
    0
    Full crap recourse
  • koksalek
    koksalek 22 December 2015 07: 48
    +3
    Debilitation of the whole country continues successfully. Mattress reforms in action. Someone who does not like strong Russia
  • as150505
    as150505 22 December 2015 08: 00
    +6
    Recently I came across a textbook in mathematics, Grade 4 (publishing house 1970). How everything is explained is accessible there. We studied on these textbooks. Now I take a child’s math textbook for grade 4 (school 2100) and I don’t understand a damn thing.
    1. a housewife
      a housewife 22 December 2015 15: 34
      0
      When I tried to ask my dad for help in mathematics a couple of times in fourth grade, I regretted it so bitterly - he was angry that the textbooks were different, but they were not taught at all. And he had 5 in mathematics. To understand what the child has in the textbook, you need to go with the child from the first grade to check the assignments. Usually this is left to mothers and grandmothers, the first three classes. And dads are taken in the 4th, and, of course, do not understand anything! After all, mathematics did not become different; methods became different. And in general - we were not engaged in algorithms at school in the second grade! And they are engaged.
  • Forget
    Forget 22 December 2015 08: 04
    +2
    I remember that in the tenth grade we were already preparing to enter the university. We solved various problems in mathematics or physics. then the Quantum magazine came out and there were entrance exams to various universities, and at the same time we tried to take exams at Moscow State University or MEPhI, well, the most intelligent MIPT wink
  • GORE OT UMA
    GORE OT UMA 22 December 2015 08: 08
    +2
    Soviet science and culture is and will be the best, my opinion is that everything repeats itself as in the history of Russia everything is overseas good, but we don’t want and don’t want to notice our own. The difference between Soviet and modern children is the Internet and education.
    1. avia1991
      avia1991 22 December 2015 08: 52
      +1
      Quote: GORE OT UMA
      Soviet science and culture is and will be better

      Was she the best - this is a moot point: in some ways we were ahead, in something - behind.
      But the undeniable fact is that and science, and culture, and education were PEOPLE: they were created by representatives of the people, they were FOR the people - and therefore were intelligible to the people, and also economically available.
  • Riv
    Riv 22 December 2015 08: 08
    +5
    In one thousand nine hundred and ninety shaggy year, a group from our school was taken to enter a military school. There I first came across an IQ test. New fashion trends and all that ... I scored 147 points on this test. The captain who saw him off said: "Those who are too smart are not needed in the army" - and put 102 on my sheet.

    Here's a test. And only one from the group entered the school, originally from Kazakhstan. His family moved to Russia immediately after his call. He would have to return to a one-room apartment, in addition to three more children. And for our unit, as it turned out, the norm was 1 person. Everyone passed the exams, consulted and decided: "Let him go. Maybe he will return to this fucking Kazakhstan in a tank ..."
    1. avia1991
      avia1991 22 December 2015 08: 57
      +4
      Quote: Riv
      I scored 147 points on this test. The captain who saw him off said: "Those who are too smart are not needed in the army" - and put 102 on my sheet.

      laughing laughing !!! ...
      Excuse me.. hi So familiar and "familiar" breathed from your story!
      Typically, very .. for the Soviet army, in particular - such "jokes" were widespread here. The principle "keep your head down - be like everyone else!" A sign of the late Soviet period .. apparently, Western agents of influence had already quite strongly influenced our ideological leadership at that time .. request
      1. Riv
        Riv 22 December 2015 12: 20
        +2
        What kind of agents are there? This principle is already three hundred years old. “The subordinate in the face of the superiors must look dashing and silly, so as not to confuse the authorities with his understanding” - is attributed to Peter the Great.
        And that test I really saw before. :)
  • rotmistr60
    rotmistr60 22 December 2015 08: 10
    +3
    Breaking is always easier than building. When the Soviet system of education was broken, consciously and with a hint from beyond the hill, then since then education has not stopped reforming, and not for the better. Want to ruin a country, ruin an education. In a couple of generations, the country will be completely ignorant and rule such a country as you want.
  • Nitarius
    Nitarius 22 December 2015 08: 12
    +1
    Deputy Mikhail Serdyuk, representing the Just Russia faction in the State Duma of the Russian Federation, states that the USE should not remain the only control system that applies to students' competencies.

    It’s time to check ALL JUST RUSSIA --- for IQ and de..sm! Ditch all that is!
    It's time to return SOVIET EDUCATION!
  • Vladimir 1964
    Vladimir 1964 22 December 2015 08: 16
    +3
    The article was interesting, read several times and was somewhat surprised by the thoughts of Alexei Volodin. And with the comments of colleagues is quite interesting. I did not find any hint about the subject of IQ in the words of Mikhail Serdyuk, but only doubts, and I agree completely justified in the quality and expediency of the exam.

    The talent of Russian children, regardless of geography of residence, family income or social status of parents, is beyond doubt. However, for a full disclosure and further development of innate abilities a systematic assessment approach is needed. In addition, unlike standard test assignments, which still remain the only, but long-lost objective measure of student performance, there is a need for differentiated tests aimed at a comprehensive analysis of their capabilities.


    But the rest of the article is already Alexei's reflections on the appropriateness of IQ. I largely agree with both the author and my colleagues about the USE and its appropriateness. But excuse me, colleagues, what does Deputy Serdyuk have to do with it? He quite realistically spoke about the "systemic evaluative approach", but the author has already developed this for us about IQ.
    Something like this, colleagues, it turns out in the text of the article. hi
    1. avia1991
      avia1991 22 December 2015 09: 14
      0
      Quote: Vladimir 1964
      Something like this, colleagues, it turns out in the text of the article.

      Hello Vladimir! hi
      Fact is that Serdyuk really offered an IQ test, as a parallel assessment of knowledge, with a possible subsequent replacement of the exam. He was told this personally - he saw a fragment of the speech in Russia24.
      Another question is that Serdyuk himself, as I understand it, is looking for an alternative to the Unified State Exam, which would be acceptable for the "Effective" (how can you put your face in the dirt before the West!) - but at the same time it would not be such a stupid disgrace as the Unified State Exam .. It (USE) should be pushed aside by all possible means, "dilute" its significance in the eyes of the authorities - since it will clearly not be possible to achieve SIMPLY CANCELING it - minobrazin grabbed a death grip!
    2. Volodin
      22 December 2015 13: 27
      +1
      Vladimir, the links in the article are provided in order to follow them. There is also a link to Izvestia, so your passage is in the style: "He quite realistically said about the" systematic evaluative approach ", but the author has already developed this for us about IQ." suggests that you need to be a little more careful. I am even more surprised that you, as you say yourself, have read the article more than once, but for some reason you did not notice links to the newspaper and the website of Deputy Serdyuk ...
  • Averias
    Averias 22 December 2015 08: 17
    +3
    About 8 years ago, out of curiosity, I decided to take this IQ test, just the son of a friend was taking it (a fourth grade student). So we worked together with him. Test result: I scored 174 points, my friend's son 176. The system happily told us - Congratulations, you are geniuses. Of course, I was stunned by this a little, I went to study in detail what it is, laughed for a long time. The system forgot to clarify, to the message - Congratulations, you are geniuses. She forgot to add - "for the third grader level." In the United States, this test was used for hiring, after the "Great Depression", in order to at least somehow weed out the absolute dumbness. The IQ test is like a cartoon "SpongeBob", and this and that was created for people with mental problems.
    1. Down House
      Down House 22 December 2015 10: 51
      -1
      Quote: Averias
      Test result: I scored 174 points, the son of a friend of 176.

      You surely passed it ON TIME?
  • Stinger
    Stinger 22 December 2015 08: 20
    +1
    Isn't it time to introduce a course "how to cheat a buyer (an examiner, a tax officer, a boss, a customs officer, and in general a neighbor)", because the course on how to cheat a voter has already been mastered and tested by the deputies
  • Dragon-y
    Dragon-y 22 December 2015 08: 20
    +5
    Those interested can download and print "Soviet" textbooks - and use them to teach their children.
    And this IQ test - it serves only to test "quick wits", and is practically not connected with the "depth of knowledge".
    The Unified State Exam- generally plays the role of "universal evil" ...
    1. Mordvin 3
      Mordvin 3 22 December 2015 09: 16
      +4
      Quote: Dragon-y
      Those interested can download and print "Soviet" textbooks - and use them to teach their children

      Grades are given by the teacher. He will not delve into your (Soviet) system, but will say that the child should learn as he (the teacher) teaches. So be prepared for the fact that your child will become a double.
      1. avia1991
        avia1991 22 December 2015 09: 53
        +2
        Quote: Mordvin 3
        So be prepared for the fact that your child will become a double.

        At least there is a hope that he will develop intellectually and be sufficiently erudite ..
      2. xorgi
        xorgi 22 December 2015 13: 15
        +2
        Mordvin 3. Stupidity! Soviet textbooks provided greater coverage of the material, so if the child reads them and the exercise is done according to the modern textbook (in the relevant topic), the child will undoubtedly be more educated. For preparation for the Olympiads in biology and chemistry, for example, we use Soviet textbooks. Many teachers from the natural-mathematical cycle would switch to Soviet textbooks, but unfortunately they are designed for a different time. By the way, the teacher does not teach what he wants to teach, but what is written in the state standard, which, unfortunately, few people on this site know about.
        1. Mordvin 3
          Mordvin 3 22 December 2015 13: 45
          +2
          And I agree with you that Soviet textbooks are better, but the load on the child? Schools teach according to one system, and at home according to another. I wouldn’t be able to. (The eternal threesome. what )
  • Vasilenko Vladimir
    Vasilenko Vladimir 22 December 2015 08: 28
    +1
    It is argued that over time IQ tests can become the basis of the very test of knowledge, skills of students, and a control innovation instead of the so-called unified state exam.
    a feeling that our homo diputaticus are completely stupefied about idleness
  • Olkass
    Olkass 22 December 2015 08: 30
    +2
    Deputy Mikhail Serdyuk, representing the Just Russia faction in the State Duma of the Russian Federation, states that the USE should not remain the only control system that applies to students' competencies. According to deputy Serdyuk, who represents voters from the Khanty-Mansiysk Autonomous Okrug in the lower house of parliament, Russian schoolchildren must also be checked for IQ.


    To begin with, let me quote Mr. Lavrov ...
    There is a proposal to petition the Guarantor to change the name of the deputy Serdyuk on Muduka

    Is there something I don't understand in this life? THOSE. for our money with you, this "people's servant" also scoffs at us. By the way, the salary of this "member" of the Duma faction is about 420000 rubles + treatment + accommodation + travel allowances + others.
    These mediocre loafers are a dime a dozen (how not to recall, for example, a couple of Mizulin and Milonov?). And all these parasites need to be fed?
    Do we need such servants?
    1. Down House
      Down House 22 December 2015 10: 52
      0
      Quote: Olkass
      Do we need such servants?

      None - they are servants of the State, and the poor have no servants fellow
  • Million
    Million 22 December 2015 08: 33
    +1
    Everyone, including the government, is talking about the good quality of the Soviet education. Well, they would have returned it!
  • olimpiada15
    olimpiada15 22 December 2015 08: 42
    +5
    I have no words. Pity the children of the Reformers! Everyone from birth has abilities that educators must identify and help develop in order for a person to become a person.
    As for the exam. It was originally a good idea, which brought to complete insanity. They brought the reformers who used the exam as a cover for the failed education reform. Education shows the ugly under-preparation of students. To hide this egregious result, reduce the level of tests in the exam. Understand, our officials are not able to really create anything, only destroy and destroy. From year to year the level of tests is reduced !!!
    The old training system contributed to the development of mental abilities. It’s not the knowledge itself that is given at school that is valuable — the ability to think, analyze, which develops with the help of exercises, forms stable connections in the brain that a person will use in real life, in other conditions, to solve other tasks, but they are initially formed when school exercises.
    The lessons of the Russian language and literature are valuable, the usefulness is also not limited to spelling - the student learns to express his thoughts correctly, he develops clarity, consistency.
    The lessons of calligraphy were valuable for development; this is the development of motor skills of particular importance. How to restore people after a stroke, when nerve connections are damaged, with the help of exercises for the hands and lost function is restored. So for children, accurate finger movements when writing is an improvement in existing connections.
    As a result, we already have a new generation of "other" people today, they are smart, but do not understand the elementary things necessary for life. Accustomed to living in a computer, they transfer computer functions into real life, as did the shooter near Moscow, who killed his colleagues for the sake of self-affirmation.
    Hundreds of thousands of young people are engaged in fraud, trying to sell any unnecessary junk to the elderly and do not understand that it is a fraud. They see it as making money. Effective managers of state monopolies are no better than them, who call the increase in levies from the population in the administrative order "increase in profits", this is what the power engineers are doing now.
    And the answer to the title of the article "Where is education going?" Answer: he is spending money without the intention of raising an educated generation of people.
    1. Down House
      Down House 22 December 2015 10: 55
      -1
      Quote: olimpiada15
      Everyone from birth has abilities that educators must identify and help develop in order for a person to become a person.

      Yeah, in the "soviet school" where the children of academicians study with the children of eternally drunk plumbers, the talents of "gifted children" flourish only in this way laughing
      1. olimpiada15
        olimpiada15 22 December 2015 15: 00
        +2
        Quote: Down House
        Quote: olimpiada15
        Everyone from birth has abilities that educators must identify and help develop in order for a person to become a person.

        Yeah, in the "soviet school" where the children of academicians study with the children of eternally drunk plumbers, the talents of "gifted children" flourish only in this way laughing

        Both in the Soviet school and now children who do not cope with the educational program study separately, such schools, classes were and are.
        When forming classes, the teaching staff tries to educate children with different levels of abilities in different classes, it’s not news that in class A there are more capable children than class D.
        Not the fact that the son of an academician is necessarily gifted, but the son of a plumber is mentally retarded. The abilities of children and the success of parents are irrelevant things.
        1. Down House
          Down House 22 December 2015 15: 39
          0
          Quote: olimpiada15
          Both in the Soviet school and now children who do not cope with the educational program study separately, such schools, classes were and are.

          I don’t know anything, at my school we all studied together, and to get into "separate" schools it was necessary at least to be mentally retarded from birth.
          Quote: olimpiada15
          Not the fact that the son of an academician is necessarily gifted, but the son of a plumber is mentally retarded. The abilities of children and the success of parents are irrelevant things.

          Fact. Statistically usually the same - a probability of 95% or so.
          Plus, children from an "intelligent" family and a family of alcoholics have a completely different culture - well, the "intellectuals" don't want their children to study with the children of alcoholics, well, what can I do about it request
          1. avia1991
            avia1991 24 December 2015 00: 45
            0
            Quote: Down House
            Fact. Statistically usually matching - 95% chance

            And who gives you such statistics? Something like the Fund for the Analysis of the Life of Russian Academicians? wassat
            If we take the statistics - on the majority of children of talented people, Nature, unfortunately, "rests" .. And this is correct - because everything in the world should be in Equilibrium. By the way, you are actively trying to break this Equilibrium.
        2. avia1991
          avia1991 24 December 2015 00: 40
          +1
          Quote: olimpiada15
          And in the Soviet school and now children who do not cope with the educational program study separately, such schools, classes were and are

          Wai-wai - here you are wrong!
          You simply cannot imagine the current policy of the educational authorities: those who are lagging in mental development NOW LEARN TOGETHER WITH THE NORMAL !!! Moreover, the teacher MUST conduct a lesson with everyone according to the general curriculum, and with the "special" ones - in a separate one .. all this within the framework of one lesson!
          Believe it?! .. I think not. However, it is true. It is unprofitable for the ministry to open special classes - it is expensive, troublesome, a lot of conventions must be observed .. or it’s just a matter of being crammed into the same class with the normally developed ones: both "tolerance" in children is brought up, and extra money is not spent! (For additional work with a "gifted" teacher, of course, NOTHING is added: "it's just one of the students").
      2. a housewife
        a housewife 22 December 2015 15: 47
        +4
        Do you have plumbing problems at home? Do you plumbers only know the eternal? Do you install everything in the apartment? And there are eternal electricians, gas workers, wipers ...
        1. Down House
          Down House 22 December 2015 15: 55
          -2
          Quote: housewife
          And there are eternal electricians, gas workers, wipers

          And I also see you from the EU, and earlier under the red flag they wrote how bad the "common Russian people" lives in Russia fellow
          1. avia1991
            avia1991 24 December 2015 00: 48
            0
            Quote: Down House
            And I’m watching you from the EU,

            wassat When I enter the site from the laptop, the flag is Russian, from the smartphone - British, from the tablet - the Netherlands .. I can not explain why. But this is definitely not teleportation, and not entertainment due to jumping through the dividing line at the border laughing
  • crazy_fencer
    crazy_fencer 22 December 2015 09: 02
    +2
    Quote: Mik13
    In a statement Serdyuk not a word about IQ no.

    Yes, yes. You sometimes read the original source by reference, and not just a quotation pulled from Izvestia.
    In fact, I completely agree with Mikhail Zadornov, who quite openly says that what has happened and is happening with the "reform" of education cannot be called anything other than a betrayal. Apparently, the "Fair Russia" decided that the degradation of the younger generation is going well, but still not fast enough.
    1. Mik13
      Mik13 22 December 2015 09: 27
      0
      Quote: crazy_fencer
      Quote: Mik13
      In a statement Serdyuk not a word about IQ no.

      Yes, yes. You sometimes read the original source by reference, and not just a quotation pulled from Izvestia.

      I read this "interview". The only fragment in which Serdyuk's statements are quoted verbatim is quoted in the article.
      And about the test for IQ - this is a type of clarification of a journalist.

      Actually there is a difference between a phrase
      there is a need for differentiated tests aimed at a comprehensive analysis of their capabilities

      и
      IQ test

      But the main thing is a loud headline. As a result of this publication, the entire Internet is already boiling brown - although Serdyuk actually spoke about the inadequacy of the exam.

      As for the existing tests for determining IQ (as a rule, the Eysenck test is meant) - they show only the test taker’s ability to solve simple logical puzzles, and in practice are of little use.
  • Gormenghast
    Gormenghast 22 December 2015 09: 16
    +2
    I always said that modern Russian educational figures doing all sorts of dick. Again, a test system is offered, to which tests are ambiguous, or moronic.

    The number of any laureates, scholarship holders, grantees, USE monsters, IQ geniuses is growing, but the number of specialists (and generally just adequate people who have a reasonable understanding of the world around them) is not. And those "специалисты"which nevertheless appear, these are all sorts of economists, effective managers, managers of financial flows and other cadres inclined to theft.
  • kit-kat
    kit-kat 22 December 2015 09: 18
    +2
    It turns out that they killed the education to such an extent that now they will simply check whether the ID is not ID. A disgrace.
    Testing for intelligence has always been additional, something from the category of entertaining.
  • Antropos
    Antropos 22 December 2015 09: 19
    +1
    In fairness ... I consider it necessary to introduce the iq test for employment in the civil service. In omega, a minimum of 100 points. And only candidates for the civil service are tested as mandatory. For example, Bush ml had 100 points (possibly tense), and Clinton had 140 points.)))
    1. olimpiada15
      olimpiada15 22 December 2015 15: 21
      0
      Quote: Anthropos
      In fairness ... I consider it necessary to introduce the iq test for employment in the civil service. In omega, a minimum of 100 points. And only candidates for the civil service are tested as mandatory. For example, Bush ml had 100 points (possibly tense), and Clinton had 140 points.)))

      They will introduce tests and will be like with the exam.
      The teachers were involved in the trial implementation of the exam, the results were good, i.e. The exam reflected the level of real knowledge of the examinee. Then, officials took up the widespread adoption of the Unified State Examination, tests for a general education course dropped to the level of an elementary school.
      So with IQ-technology work can always be affected. George W. Bush is a vivid confirmation of this.
  • Strezhevchanin
    Strezhevchanin 22 December 2015 09: 24
    +1
    Soon a new, legislative 2 + 2 = from about 3.5 to 5?
    For one initiative about such an innovation, you just need to kick the fuck and stick the rest.
    1. Down House
      Down House 22 December 2015 10: 57
      +1
      Quote: Strezhevchanin
      2 + 2 = approximately 3.5 to 5

      Well, actually 2 + 2 is not always 4, but it depends on what we want to count wassat
      1. a housewife
        a housewife 22 December 2015 15: 53
        0
        Well yes. Two legs plus two legs - how many legs?
        1. Down House
          Down House 22 December 2015 17: 08
          0
          Quote: housewife
          Well yes. Two legs plus two legs - how many legs?

          Well, yes, google about the same "imaginary units" when multiplied by themselves, they give a MINUS wassat
      2. The comment was deleted.
  • DenZ
    DenZ 22 December 2015 09: 28
    0
    Personally, I am not at all surprised that such "rationalization proposals" are made by the deputy from the Khanty-Mansi Autonomous Okrug. The level of stupefaction of the population and the standard of living in this region are quite well developed, all this leads to a strong liberalization of the elites of these districts (Yamal-Nenets Autonomous Okrug, the same). And where we have liberals in Russia there and all sorts of Western NGOs and other "democrats". These arguments are not out of the blue. I have been to this region many times. The region is, of course, good, but there is very little control over the leaders (whoever has to go hunting to their taiga Palestines with checks), there is a lot of money, hence the permissiveness in actions and minds.
  • Uzzy
    Uzzy 22 December 2015 09: 29
    -2
    The article talks about the addition of the exam in the IQ test. And here is the assessment of the possibilities of admission only by IQ (remark on the article)?
    For me, both systems are superfluous, because and we think differently! As soon as the Unified State Examination appeared - everyone intertwined, and still ...
  • moskowit
    moskowit 22 December 2015 09: 43
    +2
    This makes no sense. Was this "innovator" self-tested? This IKyu does not test any knowledge at all, but tests the ability of abstract thinking. Which, however, is also needed.
    "... And, perhaps, only the Ministry of Education and Science are ready to prove the unprovable thesis that, within the framework of the school curriculum, one can prepare for the same unified state exam so as to gain the maximum number of points on it ..."
    That's why it is "... science" to prove the "impossible". We urgently need to return to the Soviet system of secondary education, there is still time and people who will be able to establish the system. In 5-8 years, the "point of no return" will be passed and the citizens of our country will be totally illiterate ...
  • syndicalist
    syndicalist 22 December 2015 09: 47
    +3
    By and large, it is the education system that determines the future of the country. Including its defenses. And here, the current state of this system, and most importantly, the lack of clear prospects, inspires pessimism to a much greater extent than the current state of the economy
  • kuz363
    kuz363 22 December 2015 09: 49
    +4
    Is it time to drive such deputies who want dubious fame?