Military Review

How to take out the dead pilot

280
How to take out the dead pilot



After Su-24 was shot down over Syria, and the crew commander was shot from the ground, and incomprehensible citizens with special equipment hunted the navigator for a long time and unsuccessfully, not a crisis, but a paramilitary condition arose in Russian-Turkish relations. That day I first saw Putin in a state of quiet rabies. The next day, a “deep freeze” of relations with Turkey began, and completely non-diplomatic expressions (from Russian officials) sounded to Erdogan. And cobblestones flew to the Turkish embassy ...

So, immediately after this, a mass of printed and (almost said non-printed) appeared, no - video messages. There were a lot of them, really a lot and, most importantly, mostly sincere and frank. And the essence, as some have already guessed, was in the following: “guys, let's live together!”. Exactly and nothing else. The appeals were from both the Turks and the Russians, but their essence was precisely this: "let's not agitate, let us all calm down." I also looked at part of the appeal of the press secretary of the Turkish embassy in Moscow (it was not enough to watch everything). He, too, in an offended voice, called for peace and was amazed at the hatred of the “Turkish citizens”. The opinion of the German press was similar: “the hot nature of Putin and Erdogan is the cause of all the problems in Russian-Turkish relations”. In general, an incident happened, let's calm down everything, and let's not flog a fever. Well, calmed down, Greenpeace saved the fever.

There is one unpleasant question: “what next?” That's how to live with all this? The incident, as a rule, is random in nature: the aircraft "collided" in a confined space, and someone did not survive the nerves. It happens in the Air Force of the third world and this does not happen. Well, even in this situation it was possible to call, apologize, say: “this is a mistake, Satan beguiled, I will be a reptile” (and indeed it is - a creeping creep!). But get out, wriggle out. Putin himself admitted that he was waiting ... waiting for the call. But no. Nobody apologized in principle. It was strictly stated that everything was done correctly and henceforth it will be so. And from this very moment the situation is completely out of control.

Although in reality this situation was not unique at all. During the five-day war with Georgia, our planes were actively getting off, as it turned out, not by Georgians. Ukraine very successfully “sold” its Buki to an independent Georgia. And they shot down Russian planes, protecting the land of Sakartvelo from "aggression". “But how did the Georgians master them so quickly?” You ask and demonstrate ignorance of the subject and political naivety. Georgians did not master them, missiles launched Ukrainian calculations. But this is already quite interesting: Ukraine, after all, was not at war with Russia? Ukraine at that time is our “reliable partner”. So what? And how to understand this? By the way, then many times I met the reasoning of the Ukrainians about the fact that we were losing money from them, and their children were cold there. And the old men are freezing. And we lupim money from them. Not in Slavonic, this is not fraternal - to beat money to the death of freezing people. Ukrainians reasoned on this topic very willingly. On the subject of the dead Russian pilots refused to argue categorically. It is not interesting for them to discuss it. And I like that, immediately found the information on the four Russian pilots killed. Do not brothers, speak?

I know what any Ukrainian will say: “Well, the lads drove up to Georgia, to cast fires from the Troch. They returned with money and fame, because they are free Cossacks! ”Ukrainian parliamentarians in this stories worried about the fact that the Buki were "sold" for a pittance. The fact that, for example, rockets to the Bucks were delivered from Russia and cannot be re-exported, was left behind the scenes. Also behind the scenes, it remains that if the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation are being shot down by the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, then this is the same - casus belli. What do you think? Under a foreign flag, speak? And I'm going to throw a dozen schemes on the go, as Russia can "take revenge" on Turkey, acting, for example, under the flag of Iraq. And very simple. But such excuses are not serious. As they say: everyone understood everything. I think it was then, in 2008, that Moscow began to develop plans for the "return of the Crimea." It’s just that the Kremlin’s inhabitants were finally convinced that Ukraine cannot be trusted in anything. Not at all to be trusted. In Ukraine, this "incident" did not cause any special emotions. Life is everyday.

For me personally, already then, in 2008, all kinds of “relations” with Ukraine ended. Finally and irrevocably. Because the delivery of Bukov to Georgia and the attack on the Russian Air Force is a very serious operation involving many dozens of officers. Here the "little gang" is not enough. And our Ukrainian "brothers" in the officer's shoulder straps all this superbly organized. And no one outraged or protested this. Everything was perfectly understood and accepted from the very beginning. Worked like a Swiss watch. People say freeze? Oh well. In general, these actions of "free Cossacks" put Ukraine under attack. According to international law, Russia could well begin in response to shoot down Ukrainian combat aircraft. Symmetrical. By the way, it was in the Crimea that there was some kind of abnormal concentration of Ukrainian units. Why, I ask? Including air defense units. So the return of the Crimea is not a “surprise” or treachery. This is a very serious thoughtful response, it is a retaliatory move. For the downed Russian aircraft from the Ukrainian side, too, no one repented or apologized. So it is necessary. It is in the order of things for a Euro-oriented power. No need to escalate, no need to spoil relations with the fraternal Ukrainian people, well, several Russian planes were shot down, well, the pilots were killed. It happens to everyone.

Then somehow happened in 2014, the massive fall of Ukrainian combat "Litaka." It's a shame. It's a shame and even painful, but there's nothing you can do. No need to pump up. Do not spoil the relationship between the fraternal peoples. Strangely, this is generally all: first, people declare their desire to build friendly, mutually beneficial relations with Russia, then they begin to defiantly shoot down her planes. Sly there is some kind of logic, frankly speaking - gray-brown-crimson logic. After the attack on the “drying”, all the Turks began to broadcast with one voice: “We want peace and friendship.” We also wanted peace and friendship, especially with Turkey. This is me without any mockery. We really wanted peace, friendship and cooperation with the Republic of Turkey. And this is not propaganda and not empty words. But the demonstrative shooting of the Russian pilot in the air and the hunt for the navigator on the ground put a fat point on this issue. It was not an accident or an “incident”, it was a well-planned operation. Again, dozens of officers of the Turkish army were involved in its organization, and it was carried out with the permission and under the direct control of the Turkish ruling elite. And to apologize for their deeds, these glorious guys refused flatly.

You see, there is a gap in the vision of the situation: the Turks believe that everything is OK and you can continue to be friends. We are beginning to be accused of unwillingness to solve the case in peace, at the negotiating table. And Russia is not ready to accept the execution of its pilot. And there is a kind of dead end. Serious political and logical deadlock. The Turks, having shot Peshkov, considered the question closed. And they are outraged by the negative attitude towards themselves in Russia. Such a fucking clash of cultures. So this, it seems to me - to the question of "peace" and "restraint", which we are actively imposing. Allegedly, this will give us plus a hundred points to the rating. You try, try - just say it. Alas, it does not give anything, rather takes away.

Think again: Turkey is absolutely calmly shooting down a nuclear mega-power combat aircraft. And silence. And everyone thinks that this is, in general, normal. It remains to understand what could be the basis for the start of hostilities? The landing of American Marines in St. Petersburg? Or also not, no need to escalate? See Peterhof, Hermitage and return home? Those who are agitating for “restraint” in this matter (and there are many of them) do not understand the main thing: the world has taken a step towards the nuclear abyss. You can give up one, two, three, but sooner or later you will have to answer. And here it turns out that you “acquired” so much that the answer can be only one - that is the biggest red button. So do not press it! Save the world from nuclear madness! Alas, as it has already become clear to all, Russia is not going to merge quietly. That is, if someone thinks that shooting down Russian planes is in the order of things, in Russia they can suddenly decide what to use once tactical nuclear weapons is nothing, nothing, no big deal ...

It is strange that everyone is analyzing the situation with the Crimea either “in centuries” or here and now, but no one connects the “return of Crimea to home” and the Russian planes shot down over Georgia. And the connection is direct, but seven years have passed, and all lovers of geopolitics have forgotten everything. And that case showed that in the event of war, Ukraine would shoot down Russian planes and block a fleet in the Crimea. Organizing conclusions were made. But seven years have passed, and no one conducts analogies. Incidentally, this was not “revenge”, but a clear, competent, thoughtful policy. The Black Sea Fleet is too serious for its activities to depend on the decisions of clowns from Kiev. Here's how - secure on the basis of. But who would remember how it all began ... People en masse are gullible and prone to PR: now, if Putin, 08 in August, stood in a beautiful position, called Yushchenko creeping and vowing to return the Crimea (but did not return results), it would be all remembered and told their children. And so ... uninteresting, non-spectacular. Here Poroshenko - well done! Good girl! He regularly promises to return the Crimea and makes a rating on it! And will promise! (The masses love professional storytellers.)

About the same we have with Turkey. Russia cannot but respond to the destruction of its aircraft, but this is not an immediate blow to the destruction. This is, in fact, a serious change in Russian foreign policy. It is no accident that Putin openly declared that he was waiting for an apology from the Turkish side; he really didn’t want these very political changes. But Erdogan was silent, like a statue. No, not that: Erdogan made a lot of loud, contradictory statements. But he did not apologize. Here the contradiction is very serious and inherently insoluble: the Turks insist that their actions are completely natural. And we hear explanations: Erdogan could not do otherwise for internal political reasons, and he cannot apologize for the same internal political reasons. What do we have to do with our Yars? Imagine that you are a very, very serious person, drive in the black and the biggest jeep and in the back seat you carry a Maxim machine gun with endless ammunition. And all of you are afraid and wary. But once you came out for a cigarette to the kiosk (Turkish, by the way, the word), and then the boy hits your face and takes the money. So, what is next? How to live with it?

Who, sorry, after this, our Yarsy are interesting? Ah, in a very special case, when the "evil Alienas" arrive and Barack Obama gives an order? If you shoot down Russian airplanes - this is normal, then where is that very “thin red line” that you cannot go by? We are offered to resolve the issue at the negotiating table, well, we decide, this becomes a precedent and tomorrow the Poles are knocking down the “drying” next to Kaliningrad and are waiting for negotiations. And get a "yadren-loaf." And all in shock. You see, this is not about a downed plane, this is about the realization of the possibility of attacking Russia and not taking responsibility for it. Everything is much more serious. If you have a loaded shotgun in your hands, but the punks in front of you consider you a coward and a loser, then you will have to amaze them a lot. It is not enough to have a gunshot weapon, "Radishes" should be convinced of your willingness to use it. Otherwise they will attack and ... it will turn out completely bad.

That is, as a result of such a “peacefulness” and “compliance,” a non-illusory nuclear crisis may arise. Namely, the Gopniks are convinced that you will not shoot all the same, they rush at you with all of them, shots are heard ... The Georgian army fired on the Russian peacekeepers, the Armed Forces of Ukraine conducted artillery fire on Russian territory, now the Turks have shot down the "drying". The trend, however. And each time we are offered to calm down and not to freak out. Apparently, Putin calmed down so much that he mentioned that we do not need nuclear weapons against terrorists. "I hope never will be required." So it goes. And before that, he practically called Erdogan an accomplice of terrorists, which seemed to hint. And translated into normal language, this means that it is not excluded. Right here and now and so that no one leaves “disappointed”. Yes, the Soviet Union possessed the most powerful army in the world and undertook the obligation: “not to use nuclear weapons first”. And he had many allies. But, alas, we are not the Soviet Union. To carry out the defense of modern Russia from NATO without nuclear weapons is an absolute utopia.

And I have a bad feeling that sooner or later I will have to “get it off the shelf.” Just because as a result of the policy of "openness, openness and democratization," we were no longer taken seriously. And then some Turkey hits the Russian plane, shoots the pilot and takes it on video. If we “swallow” this, after a couple of years Latvia and Finland will wipe our legs about us and then “invite to the negotiating table in order to settle the differences that have arisen”. But this is strange! The Soviet Union was a totalitarian communist monster that no one loved, and Russia, as it were, a bright market capitalist republic that everyone should love. However, something began to beat us instead. Again, ideology does not work.

By the way, the introduction of sanctions is also from this very series: “what do they do, these Russians?” I don’t want to say that you can solve all the problems with “fists”, but still with a revolver and a kind word you usually do more than just having a kind word. Someone who, as Capone, understood something in American political mechanics, and he was not at all and not so much in touch with the movers and his mouths. Here on the site a comrade from Israel referred to nuclear weapons as “Doomsday Guns”. It sounds really frightening. And Russia has a full arsenal of such weapons, and even Shoigu recently mentioned that more than 95% of the launches of nuclear strategic forces of the Russian Federation are in a state of constant readiness. And, as we all understand, Russia spends a lot of money. Just monstrous. "And we have sho with a goose?" - I would like to ask. Here, again, there are a lot of excellent articles on the Russian strategic nuclear forces network. Great articles, great weapons ... everything is very pathetic, but who is this weapon holding back? Turkey beat the Russian bomber in full confidence that the "otvetki" will not follow. After the attack on the nuclear superpower from the Turkish side, a statement was made that the attack on Turkey was an attack on NATO.

And after that, the statements (internal Russian) sounded that, in attacking Turkey, we are being substituted for NATO. Great, great: nuclear weapons, at least on our part, have ceased to be a deterrent. And how to live on? What if Russian planes continue to shoot down? (Not necessarily the Turks.) After which account of the aircraft can you hit back? Again and again: we fall into a kind of psychological trap - our opponents begin to think that the “shotgun” in our hands is a fake one. And so the red line is blurring more and more. And this is a very dangerous trend. In Hollywood films, this theme is gorgeous and repeatedly played: someone holds a shotgun in his hands shaking with fear, and the one he is aiming at is getting closer and closer, step by step. Whether you like it or not, you will have to shoot at a certain point. When vodka ends - the snack turns into just food. When the “Doomsday Weapon” ceases to be a deterrent — it simply turns into a weapon.

I agree that Russia, as a state capable of (along with the United States) completely burning the planet, bears an enormous responsibility. But for some reason no one condemned the attack of the Turkish Air Force on such a state. Everyone is sitting and waiting for something. The position of modern Russia is quite paradoxical and unique, this has not happened in history yet: it lost the most powerful army and allies in the world, but preserved and increased its nuclear potential. But at the suggestion of the United States, the Georgian eagles attack the armed forces of this country, here the Ukrainian “free Cossacks” shoot down its aircraft over Georgia, here the APU beat on Russian territory, so the Turks defiantly destroy Su-24 and its commander. That is, our nuclear potential does not stop anyone from anything. “Solid” sanctions were imposed against Russia, with the aim of collapsing its economy, even the field of sports (football and athletics) are used for political attacks. And the situation is not going to improve at all. The very "hybrid" war is already being waged against us. It will not be better, it is not necessary unnecessary illusions.

But at the same time, as if our nuclear potential is not seriously considered by anyone and its proactive use is not predicted. But after all, Russian officials have been talking about the possibility of such a development for a very long time and referring to the example of the USSR, which guaranteed the non-use of nuclear weapons first. Russia, which is not at all the USSR by geopolitical possibilities, refused to give such guarantees flatly. Yeltsin repeatedly stated this: “We are a nuclear power”. Even Yeltsin. But for some reason, our neighbors on the planet are not taken seriously. Under Putin, this was repeated several times, and with a very serious face. But no one believes this, everyone perceives it as a stupid public relations campaign for internal use (“to raise the rating of a tyrant”). So, for example: yes, the EU is superior to the Russian Federation in economic opportunities very, very significantly and the sanctions for Russia are very painful. But, for example, Merkel has no nuclear weapons. But she does not consider its use in the "Vaterlanda." It just leaves out the brackets and continues to build its policy as if there are no Russian warheads. “Doomsday Guns”, understand. That is, it proceeds from the idea that driving a nuclear superpower with economic methods is quite a safe option.

So, I'm afraid, it's like with the Crimea: Ukraine was warned two million times and three million times tried to agree. Did not work. Nobody just listened or heard us. The “annexation” of the Crimea was sudden only for absolutely deaf and blind Kiev politicians. Russia clearly promised that the base in the Crimea will not surrender under any circumstances. This situation reminds me of an ancient joke about the rising costs of vodka and an alcoholic father: “Does this mean that you will drink less now? “No, that means, now you will eat less!” Instead of American bases in Crimea, Russian Crimea appeared. Suddenly. But they constantly warned ... It is comfortable for the European Union to lead a confrontation in the economic sphere, well, everyone has their own strengths. But in a war, even if it is a “hybrid” one, each side will inevitably be forced to use its main weapon, regardless of the consequences.

You see, this variant is said in the spirit that “no one wants a nuclear war.” This is an absolutely correct idea, but for some reason this idea implies a completely incorrect conclusion that Russia’s initiative to use nuclear weapons in principle cannot be considered, and any attacks on the Russian state in the financial and economic sphere and any other non-nuclear field are completely safe. The logic by which Russia can be treated as, for example, Iran, is very, very risky (Russia, unlike Iran, and nuclear weapons and the means of delivery are ok). But here, as with the Crimea or Abkhazia: while it did not happen - no one believed in it and did not seriously consider when it happened - hysteria and cries for territorial integrity arose. Could Georgia save / restore it? Is complete. Could Ukraine save the Crimea? Easy. But they simply ignored all signals through diplomatic channels from the Russian side. Their friend - America - the richest, most developed and powerful country in the world. What kind of Russia are they? Diplomacy did not work in principle. Because that's exactly the consequences.

Next, I fear, it will be the same: I strongly advise you to watch the speech of Sergey Lavrov at the security conference in Munich in February 2015 of the year (again February!). You will not regret: he tried to explain something, but he was frankly rude and laughed at his speeches. He just did not listen and did not hear. Well, what kind of “new European security architecture” will arise after that? The trouble is that all we have left of the Soviet superpower is it - the most powerful nuclear weapon in the world (which, by the way, is a fact). Our economy is very modest, Eastern Europe today is looking into the mouth of the United States, but “no one wants a nuclear war.” I'm afraid there is very little dependent on the "wants" and "unwillingness." If our European neighbors, “not wanting a nuclear war,” respect Russian interests, this is one thing, if an absurdist conclusion is drawn from “unwillingness” that such a war is impossible and Russia’s hard pressure begins - this is quite another. For a nuclear "response", an attack on Russia should not be at all nuclear, no matter how paradoxical it may sound. Variations are possible. In general, you do not need to take important things out of the brackets.
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  1. Sinister
    Sinister 22 December 2015 14: 49 New
    19
    I think the gauges on the runway had to shoot ...
    Strange, but it seems to me that modern Russia in politics takes the side of a sucker in the company of cheaters, maybe it's time to take on the candelabra already?
    1. nemec55
      nemec55 22 December 2015 14: 55 New
      10
      I think the caliber on the runway had to shoot

      Saber sharpened wassat
      1. Denis Obukhov
        Denis Obukhov 22 December 2015 14: 59 New
        +3
        Quote: nemec55
        I think the caliber on the runway had to shoot

        Saber sharpened wassat


        And harem pulled smile
        1. Sinister
          Sinister 22 December 2015 15: 12 New
          10
          Quote: nemec55
          I think the caliber on the runway had to shoot

          Saber sharpened wassat

          Quote: Denis Obukhov
          Quote: nemec55
          I think the caliber on the runway had to shoot

          Saber sharpened wassat


          And harem pulled smile

          Very wise comments, however, plus, and therefore in a trend. Why did I say the wrong thing? To warn in advance in order to avoid casualties and to plow the runway in order to avoid cases of the downing of Russian aircraft
          1. _Vladislav_
            _Vladislav_ 22 December 2015 16: 04 New
            55
            Quote: Sinister
            I think the gauges on the runway had to shoot ...
            Strange, but it seems to me that modern Russia in politics takes the side of a sucker in the company of cheaters, maybe it's time to take on the candelabra already?

            In fact, if without expansion. That is the most adequate answer, could only suggest one thing - the destruction of our Turkish Air Force, the Turkish F-16 that attacked our plane. But this had to be done at that very moment.

            And runway gauges and nuclear bombing are already above the norm.
            P.E. the moment was missed. We did not catch their F-16 then. This is a minus, of course. Maintenance should be.

            Now, it remains to catch them on repeated aggression and be ready.
            1. 97110
              97110 22 December 2015 17: 24 New
              +1
              Quote: _Vladislav_
              We did not catch their F-16 then.

              Gambit?
            2. Colonel
              Colonel 22 December 2015 17: 31 New
              -16
              Quote: _Vladislav_
              Not caught we their F-16 then. It's minus

              "Everyone considers himself a strategist ......."
              1. _Vladislav_
                _Vladislav_ 22 December 2015 17: 58 New
                13
                Quote: colonel
                "Everyone considers himself a strategist ......."

                yes, and some even colonels winked )
                1. Colonel
                  Colonel 22 December 2015 20: 02 New
                  -11
                  Quote: _Vladislav_
                  and some even ...

                  Nah ..., I imagine myself, at least as a general, and even an army. But these are the details. Tell the world how to catch and what to catch
                  Quote: _Vladislav_
                  their f-16
                  ?
                  And before that, think about why the Su-24 was shot down?
                  1. _Vladislav_
                    _Vladislav_ 22 December 2015 21: 17 New
                    25
                    Quote: colonel
                    I imagine myself, at least, as a general

                    You flatter yourself winked )
                    Quote: colonel
                    And before that, think about why the Su-24 was shot down?

                    I thought for a long time, and a common point of view among the majority of the population of our country has long been established.

                    Quote: colonel
                    "Everyone considers himself a strategist ......."

                    Returning to your last cue. I think this is not the best way to attract attention. Because the subtext of your post is quite understandable, like: I imagine myself as a strategist and I’m not rummaging and knowing anything, and you are such a cool smart kid who fully possesses information and knows exactly what had to be done. By the way, for some reason, you still haven’t voiced your CORRECT point of view.

                    And yet, so for reference.
                    Here is still a site on which everyone (within the framework of existing rules) has the right to publicly express his opinion, point of view. And such statements (like yours), expressing a slight banter and disregard for a different point of view, they do not have to make you heard. And it just causes a negative.
                    1. Colonel
                      Colonel 23 December 2015 13: 02 New
                      +3
                      Quote: _Vladislav_
                      I imagine myself as a strategist and I’m not rummaging anything, and you’re such a smart smart kid who fully possesses information and knows exactly what to do
                      You didn’t understand a damn thing, I came out of the age when they want to attract attention. If you had reasonably disclosed your theses on how and with what it was necessary to “catch” the Turks, I would be the first to take off your hat. But you were likened to some regular "all-fangs", oh late, ah not shot down, etc.
                      The quote from "The Knight ..." resulted solely in order to encourage you to express not only slogans, but also arguments. However, he missed, everyone thinks to the best of his, let’s say, good manners. By the way, your answer to the offer to think
                      Quote: _Vladislav_
                      I thought for a long time, and a common point of view among the majority of the population of our country has long been established.

                      very reminiscent of the State Department’s arguments “everyone knows that” (don’t take it for a hint).
                      1. _Vladislav_
                        _Vladislav_ 23 December 2015 14: 06 New
                        0
                        Quote: colonel
                        You didn’t understand a damn thing, I came out of the age when they want to attract attention. If you had reasonably disclosed your theses on how and with what it was necessary to “catch” the Turks, I would be the first to take off your hat. But you were likened to some regular "all-fangs", oh late, ah not shot down, etc.
                        The quote from "The Knight ..." resulted solely in order to encourage you to express not only slogans, but also arguments. However, he missed, everyone thinks to the best of his, let’s say, good manners. By the way, your answer to the offer to think


                        Catching the F-16 - should not be taken literally, although this is probably understandable.)

                        Good. Ready to listen to your point of view.
                        Tell me, what do you think should be done in this situation, and what should you refrain from? I ask without banter, directly, as if in spirit.
                        Your word is please.
                      2. Colonel
                        Colonel 23 December 2015 17: 22 New
                        +5
                        Thank. The first thought was to bring down their airplane. She went with her for a couple of days, then another thought appeared - to fly their airplane, but be sure to fly over Syria, otherwise all the “partners” will play the card of “Russian aggression against a NATO member”. I am sure that it was for this adventure that it was up to. Erdogan’s oil business is a significant thing, but far from the main one. Out of all this provocation, one can see the donkey ears of Washington, whose AWACs were pointing the F-16 and who doesn’t know which side to bite Russia to eat fish and ... get the rest. I remain at the thought that it is necessary to bring down their airplane, but how to do it not over Turkish territory, and even strictly comment on it - that’s the question (it can help Cyprus in some way). Therefore, you need to wait for a convenient moment, so I do not agree with your opinion that the moment has been missed. The fact that the fever and the commander in chief and subordinate fellows did not argue. I’m not sure that I would have had enough exposure. Recently, Ineta read out that the return of the Crimea is, inter alia, revenge for our planes shot down over Georgia. I’m not sure that this is so, but I liked the idea.
                      3. ty60
                        ty60 24 December 2015 02: 12 New
                        0
                        In the east, a very flexible worldview, sometimes changing momentarily. We will wait. Until August 2016. Eat Israeli radish and potatoes from Europe.
                  2. shpilkerman
                    shpilkerman 25 December 2015 11: 32 New
                    -1
                    This forum is mainly attended by "cheers-patriots" who are no different from Zhirik and Zyuganov - words, words, words, and think what will happen if the words become a deed they don’t think.
                    // It was necessary to bring down their f-16
                    An example of another cheer patriot who does not even want to think with his pumpkin. We are being pushed into it, Putin is trying to avoid such moments, and he is such a super army general who has sniffed out everything and knows every centimeter in politics. Here is the same Zhirik and Zyuganich also constantly say that, yes, as it were, but they just say. For them, everything is so simple: waved his hand in that direction - everything is done, no internal problems with the bandits in the government. The main thing they can’t get rid of Chubais ...
        2. Colonel
          Colonel 22 December 2015 17: 31 New
          -13
          Quote: _Vladislav_
          Not caught we their F-16 then. It's minus

          "Everyone considers himself a strategist ......."
        3. Lev Leshchenko
          Lev Leshchenko 22 December 2015 19: 08 New
          +6
          Quote: _Vladislav_
          moment was missed

          More precisely and you will not tell.
        4. retsamtor
          retsamtor 22 December 2015 20: 24 New
          +1
          That's right, the C400 has been delivered for this. And let anyone try to attack the Russian Aerospace Forces. Not much will seem.
        5. GradusHuK
          GradusHuK 22 December 2015 21: 27 New
          +2
          They don’t wave their fists after the fight!
          1. BARKHAN
            BARKHAN 22 December 2015 23: 11 New
            38
            Quote: Lev Leshchenko
            Quote: _Vladislav_
            moment was missed

            More precisely and you will not tell.


            Quote: GradusHuK
            They don’t wave their fists after the fight!


            Believe me, dear ones, that the moment has not been missed yet, and with fists after the fight yet, as they wave ...
            And this action sounds short-REVENGE.
            It costs nothing to calculate the name of the pilot and exponentially destroy it together with the family. And there is no need for snot. The Union spread rot on the attackers and therefore was a great Power. The base commander and the commander of the Air Force should suffer the same fate. Moreover, there are poisoning options (Khattab) and traffic accidents. This east! Here only force is recognized! And kindness is recognized for weakness. Only a terrible fear of inevitable punishment will exclude future attacks.
            And if the country is not ready to destroy the enemies, then there was no fig to drive their soldiers into these sands. Once you have entered, then burn all enemies with fire. .
            1. avia1991
              avia1991 22 December 2015 23: 34 New
              10
              Quote: Barkhan
              .Only a terrible fear of inevitable punishment will exclude future attacks.

              Applause! good
              Quote: Barkhan
              This is the east! Here only strength is recognized! And kindness is recognized for weakness

              And in addition, an understanding of the subject! hi
              I myself am amazed all the time: and when will this limit of patience of our Darkest come? After all, the author very correctly, in my opinion, remarked:
              Again and again: we fall into a kind of psychological trap - our opponents begin to think that the “shotgun” in our hands is a fake character. And so the red line is blurring more and more
            2. pesny2006
              pesny2006 23 December 2015 11: 50 New
              0
              Very correctly said. East is a delicate matter, but everyone loves POWER.
            3. Svist
              Svist 24 December 2015 12: 12 New
              +1
              Quote: Barkhan
              It costs nothing to calculate the name of the pilot and exponentially destroy it with the family. And do not need snot. The Union spread rot on the attackers and therefore was a great Power.

              Give an example of where and how the Union exponentially destroyed one's family.
              1. BARKHAN
                BARKHAN 24 December 2015 18: 58 New
                +3
                Punctuation marks, and specifically in this case the “dot”, make the written sense. You probably haven't noticed two dots between the “family” and “Union”. So the dot means the end of the sentence.
                And you ask, HOW? the employees of the Soviet embassy were released in Beirut ... And you know why the hostages were so instantly released, and the terrorists received some of the relatives in their premises ...

                [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvI4WaAhqsE]]
              2. BARKHAN
                BARKHAN 24 December 2015 19: 02 New
                +2
                You can just search in accessible places ...
            4. Shark Lover
              Shark Lover 24 December 2015 14: 15 New
              0
              It is not death that is terrible, but the expectation of death. Remember .... "nothing lasts forever ..." Knowing what the foreign policy of GDP is based on, the partner will live anyway. He said, remembered, did. A couple of times they will understand that waiting for a LONG time is much worse than getting it right away, but I think few people decide in the future that they will receive 100%. Strategy. One bad thing, everything is based on personality
          2. MSL
            MSL 15 March 2016 16: 09 New
            0
            Quote: GradusHuK
            They don’t wave their fists after the fight!

            No one is waving. Tea is not the last fight.
        6. fennekRUS
          fennekRUS 22 December 2015 23: 43 New
          +6
          Quote: _Vladislav_
          Get them to repeat aggression and be prepared.

          You know, Vladislav, the best "answer" would be to "fulfill" the Edorgan brothers within a week. By a group of “unidentified persons” Everyone would have correctly understood the “signal” Most likely I will incur a ban on myself with this statement, but that would be the best way out. How many disliked presidents have there been in history? Everyone understands why, who, how, but there is no evidence. And given the oil trade with the Islamic state, the information part could also be on top. The Middle East would appreciate the move. Let the Orientalists comment. Now it’s too late to wave a saber, alas. So this is an alternative story
          1. onega67
            onega67 23 December 2015 10: 49 New
            0
            I think that is not so easy !!!
          2. Pomeranian
            Pomeranian 23 December 2015 11: 27 New
            0
            It is better to “fulfill” the whole country, no matter how cynical it sounds. For other “Erdogany brothers” will come instead of them, not the fact that it is better.
            1. fennekRUS
              fennekRUS 23 December 2015 21: 45 New
              +1
              Quote: Pomoryanin
              "execute" all the country

              disagree categorically! What does the country have to do with it? And others will act with caution, but how will it fly?
          3. ty60
            ty60 24 December 2015 02: 21 New
            0
            I think that this is not Afghanistan. The mood within the country is different. However, Sudoplatov also did not solve the OUN problem.
        7. DPN
          DPN 23 December 2015 01: 06 New
          +2
          Quote: _Vladislav_
          P.E. the moment was missed. We did not catch their F-16 then.

          THIS is like in 1941 the generals were just chickened, they didn’t send their son without cover.
        8. Pomeranian
          Pomeranian 23 December 2015 11: 24 New
          +5
          Here you are wrong. Russia really did not want a conflict with Turkey, therefore such a proposal as "shelling from the ground" was voiced. If Erdogan really wanted to settle the conflict, then he simply had to grab hold of his outstretched hand. Well, no - no trial. I believe that Turkey will soon remain only on postcards.
        9. Butchcassidy
          Butchcassidy 23 December 2015 16: 38 New
          +2
          The Turks sought this, it was a provocation, just designed for the inappropriate use of force. Then all against the will would be forced to harness for the Turks.

          Here we must act as in a joke about two bison - young and old: quietly go down the mountain and three ... fuck the whole herd! bully
        10. stavr550
          stavr550 23 December 2015 17: 54 New
          +2
          As for the calibers, this is true and as for the moment, it is also true, but we are driven into a corner. We are appointed to blame, any situation will be unambiguous against us. They bite Russia from all sides and look, and when they realize that they can RUN ONE. How to beat the most vile and brazen in the gateway. I doubt that Americans and geyropeytsy for the Turks will run to die
        11. Thronekeeper
          Thronekeeper 24 December 2015 06: 55 New
          0
          On the very first flight to catch on the territory of Syria and RVV to prepare from 2-4 F-16 with the support of air defense chaker churek.
          Americans, bsty, call it Christmas turkey
          [Turkey (English) - Turkey, Turkey]
          ("Signature - there is no news from Putin about a Thanksgiving pardon?"). They have such a tradition. One turkey cannot be cut solemnly ...
        12. go21zd45few
          go21zd45few 24 December 2015 08: 16 New
          +1
          Yes, do not need calibers. The most effective and not pleasant for Turkey is the active support of the Kurds for the supply of modern weapons, and training. Kurds are a big splinter in the ass of Turkey. The second in the case of Iraq's appeal to assist in the expulsion of Turkish troops
          to launch a missile bomb strike from the territory of Iraq at their places of deployment.
      2. severniy
        severniy 22 December 2015 16: 27 New
        75
        It’s a dangerous article, but it’s interesting, the hands itch, it’s the only general who said that you had to answer for the plane right away, without waiting for an apology from anyone, so answer so that the grass would piss for a couple of weeks. And now it’s some kind of swing with sanctions ... There is no sense for the topic of shot down drying ...
        1. The comment was deleted.
          1. The comment was deleted.
        2. Alexey Boukin
          Alexey Boukin 22 December 2015 19: 25 New
          17
          Quote: severniy
          you had to answer for the plane right away, without waiting for an apology from anyone,

          For Turkey, these consequences came as a surprise. It can be seen that we are used to the fact that our former leaders were puppets in the hands of the West and Washington. Russia showed its teeth, made it clear that it is impossible to do with it as they would like. The fact that Turkey did not even apologize is the height of cynicism, which forces Russia to act adequately.
          Author plus for the article!
          1. Hardy
            Hardy 23 December 2015 00: 05 New
            15
            Quote: alexey bukin
            Russia showed its teeth, made it clear that it is impossible to do with it as they would like.

            Maybe I missed something. This is when and where did Russia show its teeth? While the masters of the world (transnational business) do what they want with us. Having shot down planes (do not forget about the civilian side), they showed our insolvency and quarreled with partners. And we continue to pay them hundreds of billions of dollars annually ... And do not turn a blind eye to the obvious, it was not Erdogan who hit us, but NATO. The Turks simply played the role of an abscess ...

            Previously, the USSR was only hated from the outside, and even that wasn’t all. But everyone respected, or at least feared. And inside they knew how to teach the Motherland to love)))) Now for the capitalist RF, with clowns in the leadership serving big business, and few people will fit inside.

            Personally, I do not see any fundamental difference between the actions of the leadership of Ukraine and the Russian Federation. But if there for some reason we see who the authorities are working for, then we do not notice point blank ...
            Even the performances with Serdyukov, Vasilyeva ... mockery with Plato, the president’s explanation that speculation is not a criminal category (and what is being asked makes it difficult to criminalize it, or at least tax) is perceived as "someone sometimes doesn’t want to live honestly with us ")))

            The whole country is hunched over by world bankers, gives up its resources, production and brains for nothing, and the "patriots" are proud of how menacingly we shake our fists and tomatoes))))
            They do not even bother with their miserable excuses with a self-collapsed recorder)))) An ordinary Chinese auto-recorder would be more reliable)))) Yes, an ordinary household Gauss LED bulb compared to our recorder as an alien technique))))
            I don’t know why you are so happy here. This or such protection of the body, unwillingness to see the obvious, or your opinions are paid ...
            I'd love to be proud of my country, or at least love. But there is no reason for pride, nor one’s country ... Why say nothing, even the transfer of Mikhalkov !!!!!, where he dared to utter the word "Russian", was banned on TV.
            1. Pushkar
              Pushkar 23 December 2015 09: 29 New
              -1
              Your suggestions? Or the usual "Everything is rotten, everything needs to be changed" from the Communist Party?
              1. Hardy
                Hardy 23 December 2015 11: 16 New
                12
                Quote: Pushkar
                Your suggestions? Or the usual "Everything is rotten, everything needs to be changed" from the Communist Party?

                I myself have not rotted everything yet))))
                It makes no sense to make suggestions here. The process of globalization and consolidation of business is not someone’s will, but a natural course of history. States as subjects of politics disappear, their place is taken by transnational business. Which has only short-term, on the scale of human civilization, plans. What all this will result in the long term is not yet clear. And in the short term, the situation will become even more contrasting.
                As for our answer (that is, the Russian Federation as a political subject) to the downed planes, in my opinion, responding with “tomatoes” is the most stupid possible. This is exactly what they have sought from us.
                We could either "not attach" special significance to the death of the pilot, or give a military response. And this decision should have been made, regardless of whether Erdogan apologizes or not, but for purely pragmatic reasons. Yes, both of these decisions are difficult, but the political subject cannot have easy ways to defend his interests.
                We thought, thought ... and decided to take offense, we won’t eat their tomatoes and scrape off the tan)))) Yes, now only the lazy will not kick us ...
                In my opinion, if we hadn’t “noticed” the fact of aggression, it would have looked much worse ... Well, if there was nothing to say to Erdogan personally about Turkey’s military infrastructure, then the brains would have cleared up. But the answer had to be very well calculated and prepared before coming to Syria ...
                In my opinion, we “tomatoes” and excuses (and even so stupid as with the receptionist) lowered ourselves many times more than Erdoогan did when he shot down the plane. He was not afraid to fuck the nuclear power, but why were we scared and did not give an answer? Why then got into a fight?
                It turns out that the leadership of the Russian Federation voluntarily or involuntarily once again played up to the overseas “partners,” since it is precisely they who worsen our economic ties.
                And with all this, we continue to give our resources to our “partners” for nothing. Well, what kind of suggestions can there be?)))) Do not give!)))
                If we are a subject, then we must be self-sufficient. And if the object, then nefig and show off what they ordered, then execute. We are now like a stupid slave who fulfills the norm set by the owner in the garden, but is bold, for which he is regularly flogged)))
                Or explain to me how you can have such inflation with a positive trade balance? WELL HOW?))) This means only one thing, even the modest loot that we are paid for exported resources does not enter the country. Isn't that obvious?
                And if these points are taken into account, the reaction of the Russian leadership to the downed plane is quite logical. But the dough is now not enough, but no one has canceled the norm)))) Here is a trickle going to Turkey and redirected ... And the dead pilot, a world power ... but to them all for good)))
                1. pesny2006
                  pesny2006 23 December 2015 13: 33 New
                  +1
                  Yes, because our "top" does not represent the scale of the force that we possess. I have not seen, do not know, have not participated. And they are very much tied to the west. Well, you understand .....
            2. kashtak
              kashtak 23 December 2015 13: 41 New
              0
              Quote: Hardy
              Maybe I missed something. This is when and where did Russia show its teeth?

              missed? rather diligently "did not notice." Russia has shown its teeth by stepping up efforts to destroy militants in northern Syria and oil traffic.
              1. Hardy
                Hardy 23 December 2015 22: 27 New
                +2
                Quote: kashtak
                Russia has shown its teeth by stepping up efforts to destroy militants in northern Syria and oil traffic.

                So ISIS created it for us to get into it)))) We are like a stupid dog, biting the stick of which they beat us, and not the controlling hand.
                Of course, they need to be destroyed, but to boast that they showed the teeth to the stick ... What are they doing against us, do they launch condoms?)))) In the old days, the Wehrmacht was exposed against us ...
                And this is all a performance, money and resources either flowed from us or are flowing from us.
          2. Koldunja
            Koldunja 23 December 2015 00: 11 New
            -2
            These are far from all the consequences for Farting. But when the resort season-o-on ...
        3. BLACK-SHARK-64
          BLACK-SHARK-64 22 December 2015 19: 28 New
          18
          The article is dangerous, but necessary, you can’t relax, even if you are successful in the battle .... Now our higher ranks need to carry the notes of Suvorov AV with them .... Going to bed, laying them under the pillow .... And that’s it angry still ... BLOOD FOR BLOOD !!!!!!
        4. marna
          marna 24 December 2015 20: 43 New
          0
          Quote: severniy
          the general said that it was necessary to answer for the plane immediately, without waiting for an apology from anyone, and so answer so that a couple of weeks would fall asleep.


          If I’m not mistaken, it was General Ivashov on the transfer from Solovyov. He said that in such a situation, the Soviet Union would send the ambassador (Turkey) with the entire diplomatic corps within 16 hours, recall his ambassador, and unfill the entire base from which F XNUMX rose. Moreover, in his opinion, the reaction of the world community would be pretty neat, if at all.
    2. The comment was deleted.
    3. Now we are free
      Now we are free 22 December 2015 15: 59 New
      118
      Thanks to the author for the article. Written, albeit emotionally, BUT competently and supported by facts, clear logical reasoning.
      After the Turks did the operation with the Su-24 (and it was a well-prepared operation), many spoke of the fact that there would be E ... from which the F-16 took off ... Not realizing that at that very moment The Supreme could well have ... nuclear weapons in Turkey (more precisely, at its military bases). And this is not the ravings of a madman, just in this storm of information that pours on us every day from the TV / Computer, very many lost their sense of reality and the reality is that Turkey in the person of Erdogan went Va-Bank (actually declaring war on the Russian Federation by knocking her plane down) exposing in front of himself after a crime (like "amulet") status - ONLY THROUGH ME WILL FIGHT WITH EVERYTHING НАТО.
      But just the same, NATO pulled away from the Turks, as America had pulled back from Georgia and Ukraine. It was a bluff, But it’s worth saying that the bluff / bullying of Russia every time happens more bloody and defiantly ... And quite possibly the second phase of the “giveaway game” was prepared -Today our ptsans at the bazaar of one of your Northern ones cut, we here consulted with the ptsans and came to an opinion that he didn’t understand what he did, and therefore we pass it on to you ... Like do with him what you want is your BORDER conflict Turkey / Syria / Russia. If the Russian Federation had begun after this NATO / Baboon statement very toughly "Falling Erdogan's Falcons" then the old barrel organ - Russia the aggressor - would have played !; why are you so ?; Wild Russians !; We are in solidarity with Turkey !; Turkey CE Europe !; Russians do not know how to negotiate ... Etc. etc...
      Here and now, the leadership of the Russian Federation voiced all claims against Turkey, everyone knows that the Russian Federation can strike from anywhere (Rostov on the Don, CF, SA of the Russian Federation) and not only nuclear weapons ... Yes, we can launch BUT missiles and they will not be returned back and therefore it is necessary to cut off seven times, as if we did not want to truly punish the perpetrators of what happened. BUT let's talk honestly without any momentary situations ...
      EVERYONE knows who needs to be hit, right? And this is not puppet: Ankara and not Kiev and not Tbilisi ...

      It:
      1) Washington
      2) London
      3) Warsaw
      4) Zurich (yes, Zurich, for there Koshcheev’s death in an egg ... oh, in the banks of Switzerland there is hidden the loot of the “Gray Cardinals” who poison the Russian Bear with such zeal).

      Then most problems will be solved, if not all -But neither the frog nor the Kaa will be alive ...(Kipling "The Jungle Book").

      P.S. Therefore, if you want to make as few mistakes as possible, DENY EMOTIONS in such geopolitical decisions and expect this from you all the more so. Russians / Russians believe in justice much more than the average citizen of the earth, because they press on this, knowing this weakness of ours, but at the same time such a strong trait (in order to make us make a mistake with it). Cold calculation and nothing more! The hypocrites have been playing against us for more than one hundred years, who have been stuffing their hands and we must not forget about this for a second ...

      We’ll smash the guys, smash it ... Everything has its time, but remember that while the “puppeteer” is alive, death / victory over the puppet doesn’t solve them (puppets), the puppeteer has a whole chest ...
      1. shalim
        shalim 22 December 2015 16: 23 New
        +5
        The same “hybrid" war is already being waged against us. It will not be better, no unnecessary illusions.

        but we should not hurry in the answer, and here it is correctly noticed:
        Let's hit guys, let's hit ... Everything has its time.
        1. severniy
          severniy 22 December 2015 20: 42 New
          +2
          Quote: Now we are free
          Thanks to the author of the post!

          letters for another article! and that's it! applaud while standing!
      2. BLACK-SHARK-64
        BLACK-SHARK-64 22 December 2015 19: 37 New
        +4
        A great addition to the article .... 100 pluses .... that is, the red line turns into black, the second when the next similar incident happens ... And he, I think is quite possible ... am
        1. Kuzyakin15
          Kuzyakin15 22 December 2015 20: 42 New
          -1
          Quote: BLACK-SHARK-64
          A great addition to the article .... 100 pluses .... that is, the red line turns into black, the second when the next similar incident happens ... And he, I think is quite possible ... am

          Yes, there will be nothing .... and the next time, there will be!
          I agree with the author, the answer should be right away, then this is "surrender."
          And the answer with the choice of option and place in a few years is already aggression from the avenger or meanness, such as: I’m vindictive.
          In this case, let’s bomb ourselves against Romanians or Germans, because 74 years ago they attacked us, and now we will take revenge on them. Since it turns out.
      3. Rarog
        Rarog 22 December 2015 19: 50 New
        +1
        Tel Aviv forgot to mention.
        1. avia1991
          avia1991 22 December 2015 23: 40 New
          +1
          Quote: Rarog
          Tel Aviv forgot to mention.

          And I am so inclined to think that in Tel Aviv, OUR PEOPLE will sort it out on the spot with whom it is necessary .. wink
      4. retsamtor
        retsamtor 22 December 2015 20: 33 New
        +1
        I agree. But when, oh, the bear will snap back.
      5. The comment was deleted.
      6. Per se.
        Per se. 22 December 2015 21: 18 New
        22
        Quote: Now we are free
        EVERYONE knows who needs to be hit, right?
        If aspen stakes with all kinds of ghouls, such as those from the Rockefeller and Rothschild clans, can be hammered into their rotten hearts, you can probably solve the problem without nuclear weapons. As for spitting at Russia, as they say, “Forgive one insult, and they will certainly inflict a lot of them on you” (Publius Syr). And an insult was the beginning of sanctions against Russia. What did we answer them then? Nothing, nothing significant. Say, they refused the apples, it’s they who block the vital for us, and we also refuse their apples ... Is that cool? No one threatened to shut off gas to Europe before winter, to close transit, to stop delivering the same engines for the American space program, launches to the ISS, nothing that would really hurt the West. You have to earn dollars. Even with Turkey, the construction of a nuclear power plant can be restored, as it turns out to be a "commercial project." Listed above, too. In the same States, if a company acts against the country's policy, sells something to the enemy, it will inevitably be punished, we have a "holy" business of selfish interests of monopolists, oligarchs. No need to rattle with nuclear weapons, you need to respect yourself, your country. If the DPRK plane were shot down like this, if the aggressor fighter had flown away, the blow would most likely have been hit at its airfield. Israel would do the same, any country that respects itself. To show the whole world a flimsy "black box" in which all the chips beat, justify themselves ... They will not be respected and afraid for this, but Russia can and must force itself to respect, without this, nuclear weapons will not help, and will they use it those with commercial interests, selfish interests, higher than national ones, a question.
        1. BARKHAN
          BARKHAN 22 December 2015 23: 24 New
          20
          The first bell really was in Georgia 08.08.08
          When the Georgians vilely laid so many of our boys ... So, why the hell were the troops stopped near Tbilisi? Why was the Georgian army not completely disarmed? Why were the troops who attacked our soldiers not captured and not sentenced for 20 years?
          Why was the pro-Russian government not planted in occupied Georgia? ...
          In my opinion, no one has yet answered for the murder of Russian peacekeepers. And by the way, why is Saakashvili, who personally gave the order to kill ours, still alive?
      7. Kudiyar
        Kudiyar 23 December 2015 02: 25 New
        +2
        good Ah, well done.
      8. onega67
        onega67 23 December 2015 10: 51 New
        0
        not just give a command for Poplar !!!
    4. domokl
      domokl 23 December 2015 03: 38 New
      +4
      Emotionally, but great. Bravo to the author
  2. Sinister
    Sinister 22 December 2015 15: 02 New
    10
    Quote: nemec55
    I think the caliber on the runway had to shoot

    Saber sharpened wassat

    Itself without ensemble wassat Well, on the topic, how not to bend, but still they make us bloody maniacs and maybe we need to become them and figurate so that who didn’t hide, are we not to blame?
    1. Tjeck
      Tjeck 22 December 2015 15: 31 New
      -33
      If you are going to pick up someone, then start definitely not from the Turks. What are the designer and the customer of the black box?
      1. sssla
        sssla 22 December 2015 17: 11 New
        +6
        Quote: Tjeck
        If you are going to pick up someone, then start definitely not from the Turks. What are the designer and the customer of the black box?

        They say to you
        "Look how beautiful that bl. Fly !!!
        And you in response -
        "A fly ??? A FLY !!! Where is a fly swatter ??? !!!"
        Why deaf violin ??? But XP-N knows him!
        1. Tjeck
          Tjeck 22 December 2015 18: 08 New
          -23
          In this case, you can be deaf, most importantly with the brains. “Urya” warriors are already tired of the order, if hormones play - you are welcome, now there are many places where you can go as volunteers.

          As for the topic of the Turks I will try to explain to you on the fingers. The time when it was possible to use force was gone in the first 2-3 days, now the Turks have already managed to create enough to set the response of the Russian Federation as treacherous aggression. There was a chance to reduce all their efforts to zero, but since the recorder did the presenters (crazy hands) everything was about ... Well, now the fools only have to do how to play war games on the forum. hi
          1. sssla
            sssla 22 December 2015 19: 13 New
            +2
            Quote: Tjeck
            I will try to explain to you on the fingers

            You do not understand, oh do not understand !!!
            1. Kuzyakin15
              Kuzyakin15 22 December 2015 20: 53 New
              10
              Yeah got it
              Quote: sssla
              Quote: Tjeck
              I will try to explain to you on the fingers

              You do not understand, oh do not understand !!!

              Yes, we all understood, we understood!
              Not really downs and not vacation. We also do not need war games, just like you.
              But turning the other cheek and showing “restraint and prudence” does not mean that by this “war” we move aside for the closet.
              Jews are right at 150% with their policy of instant response. And the “soft power” that Russian politicians preach today is perceived all over the world as overt weakness. And therefore, Ukraine and the Baltic states are constantly wiping dirty soles on Russia.
              1. Tjeck
                Tjeck 22 December 2015 21: 36 New
                -6
                Oh, how is everything simple and clear for you, even against whom today are you going to use (non-soft) force? laughing You never thought about the origins of the problems with the Baltic states and Ukraine - the reason is not to take away the soft behavior of Russia, it’s much commonplace: in 1990-1991 it was not necessary to declare the independence of the republics. Why wave your fists after a fight or do you seriously want a global war with NATO? If so, we will not find a common consensus, since for me it is simply not serious. Since you really want to shoot so much, why don't you just sign up for volunteers in the Donbass or go to the shooting range?

                Now, according to Israel: The situation is different there, they simply can’t react harshly, they have been literally occupiers since 47 years old. It was necessary to ask for a piece of Germany as compensation and not Palestine. Yes, and everyone can punish the Papuans, but the trouble is that the Russian Federation’s enemies are far from Papuans.
                1. Nekarmadlen
                  Nekarmadlen 23 December 2015 01: 54 New
                  0
                  But under Stalin, they tried to create Jewish autonomy in the Far East, even allocated a territory, but only Jews from around the world did not go, they chose the promised land)))))
              2. sergeysergey69
                sergeysergey69 23 December 2015 02: 39 New
                11
                I want to remind you of the thousands of our tourists who were in Turkey at that time and who would become hostages of the situation with our immediate reaction, for some reason no one here remembered this, this is the same factor! I agree on one thing - why our SU flew without cover, you can it was to calculate the situation in advance, before that there were also attempts at provocations from the Turks, this was supposedly a downed drone and violent protests on their part about allegedly violating the border by our aircraft, and the selfish interest of the Erdogan family that they did not know what we were going to attack them with corn ?! All this should be calculated and predicted in advance and naturally, as the proverb says - it’s better to translate, so there were mistakes on our part too! If we understand such things at the amateurish level - why those who depend on the adoption of such decisions don’t understand this ? In my opinion - the heads should fly, because someone is responsible for this operation, or were the miscalculations at the highest level ?!
          2. BLACK-SHARK-64
            BLACK-SHARK-64 22 December 2015 19: 40 New
            +1
            there is no war on the forum ... only opinions on ............... hi
          3. SergGrey318
            SergGrey318 23 December 2015 00: 02 New
            +7
            I didn’t understand your logic at all. What is the relationship between the "answer" and the recorder manufacturers?
            Listen, and why did everyone get to this recorder?
            Put you in a zinc box, pour silicone. First, rocket to throw, then from 6 km to the ground to bang. And then another 8 hours to iron the area around you with aviation, artillery and MLRS. Attention question. At what stage do your meat from bones begin to exfoliate?
            Not. I am certainly an amateur. But in fact? One bloke, calling himself an expert, raised a howl about the shame to the recorder manufacturers. And at once all wise men of couch picked up.
      2. kuz363
        kuz363 22 December 2015 19: 24 New
        0
        Well, they always start with the artist, and then the customer
      3. BLACK-SHARK-64
        BLACK-SHARK-64 22 December 2015 19: 38 New
        +1
        maybe a stupid person ..... or just a European ... bully
  3. _Vladislav_
    _Vladislav_ 22 December 2015 15: 21 New
    52
    Finally, they raised an important topic. My opinion is by Krut. Why? By the fact that everything is in essence. He drew attention to key points. I will highlight them thesis with which I agree by 251%.
    So do not press it! Let's save the world from nuclear madness! Alas, as it has already become clear to everyone, Russia is not going to merge quietly. That is, if someone thinks that shooting down Russian planes is in the order of things, in Russia they may suddenly decide that applying a single tactical nuclear weapon is a trifle, that's okay ...

    Who, sorry, is interested in our “Yars” after that? Ah, in a very special case, when the "evil Alien" arrive and Barack Obama gives an order?

    You see, it's not about a downed plane, the point here is to realize the possibility of attacking Russia and not bear responsibility for this. Everything is much more serious. If you have a loaded shotgun in your hands, but the punks in front of you considers you a coward and a loser, then you will have to amaze them a lot. It is not enough to have firearms in your hands; radishes should be convinced of your readiness to use them. Otherwise, they will attack and ... it will turn out very badly.

    Now on the account that Russia is not the USSR
    But, alas, we are not the Soviet Union. To carry out defense of modern Russia against NATO without nuclear weapons is an absolute utopia.

    I absolutely agree. The USSR was the equivalent of the United States. These were equal powers. When the USSR was gone, the USA turned into the only Superpower in the world (yes, this term has a very specific definition https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/SuperPower). Abroad in the USA, there are 860 bases, most of all in Germany (305), Japan (158) and South Korea.
    In Russia, barely two dozen typed. And here the thing smells like that soon everyone will not care about Russia's nuclear status.
    For a nuclear “response”, an attack on Russia should not be nuclear at all, no matter how paradoxical it may sound. Variations are possible.

    For example: high-power thermobaric bomb.
    PS
    with a revolver and a kind word usually do more than just with a kind word.

    Gold words. They never ceased to be relevant.
    hi
    1. Uncle
      Uncle 22 December 2015 16: 25 New
      +2
      Quote: _Vladislav_
      Abroad in the USA, there are 860 bases, most of all in Germany (305), Japan (158) and South Korea.
      In Russia, barely two dozen typed.

      At the last press conference, Putin expressed the idea of ​​the optional base in Syria, perhaps there is some new tactics for creating parity without bases. I hope there is.
      1. _Vladislav_
        _Vladislav_ 22 December 2015 16: 35 New
        20
        Quote: Uncle
        At the last press conference, Putin expressed the idea of ​​the optional base in Syria, perhaps there is some new tactics for creating parity without bases. I hope there is.

        You can use the long potential of our territory, of course.
        But at the expense of the uselessness of the base in Syria - I disagree.
        Stainless needs bases abroad (Air Force, Navy, Ground) - it is an instrument of influence, geopolitical and military. One "small" military base in Crimea, and here you are - Crimea returned to Russia.

        About 1000 US military bases abroad allowed states to practically rule the world. Create various trade alliances. Introduce sanctions and force others. Manage the global economy.
        1. Alexei
          Alexei 22 December 2015 17: 17 New
          0
          Quote: _Vladislav_
          But at the expense of the uselessness of the base in Syria - I disagree.

          In the future, the base and there is nothing, the port will be enough.
          1. _Vladislav_
            _Vladislav_ 22 December 2015 23: 22 New
            +3
            Quote: Alexej
            In the future, the base and there is nothing, the port will be enough.

            The port is easy to destroy.
            It is already more difficult to destroy one military base.
            The totality of military bases - it’s already difficult to destroy
            The totality of aggregates (in simple terms) can no longer be destroyed without, of course, grave consequences.

            You say: No one will destroy the port of a nuclear power.
            A couple of months ago everyone thought so. But it turned out that it was possible to easily and unconditionally fill up a plane of a nuclear power (sleight of hand and no fraud).
    2. BLACK-SHARK-64
      BLACK-SHARK-64 22 December 2015 19: 45 New
      +2
      Excellent Vladislav, it’s a shame that not everyone understood the essence of the article, it’s exactly that ignoring and putting pressure on Russia is very dangerous in the end ..... angry
  4. nemec55
    nemec55 22 December 2015 16: 32 New
    +3
    I think the caliber on the runway had to shoot
    Saber sharpened

    There was a continuous battle for + and - who won would think the readers thought but won the mods banned the lad wassat
  5. 97110
    97110 22 December 2015 17: 21 New
    -3
    Quote: nemec55
    Saber sharpened

    It is a well-known fact that Prussian officers demonstratively ground sabers about the steps of the French embassy just in front of Jena and Auerstedt. Be careful with hints. Better right. Make a video where a terrible Russian Ivan after a third warning kills a kitten, and everything completes a shot of a soaring caliber with the inscription "2 warning". Scroll against the backdrop of the White House. Or the fortress wall in Istanbul, with a passing BOD.
  6. Oleg14774
    Oleg14774 22 December 2015 17: 47 New
    -4
    Quote: nemec55
    Saber sharpened

    Here's how to put an article plus after these words at the beginning of the article:
    "The incident, as a rule, is random: the planes" collided "in a limited space, and someone could not resist the nerves."
  7. marlin1203
    marlin1203 22 December 2015 20: 08 New
    +2
    We are not vindictive ... revenge and forget ... am
  8. Lukich
    Lukich 22 December 2015 21: 20 New
    11
    Quote: nemec55
    I think the caliber on the runway had to shoot

    must
    1. onega67
      onega67 23 December 2015 11: 06 New
      0
      you think very true, Veta !!!
  9. Butchcassidy
    Butchcassidy 23 December 2015 16: 34 New
    +1
    They will still shoot back, do not worry for that. You have to understand that Turkey is Turkey. Both the EU and the USA with their interests are sideways to the Turks.

    Erdogan, shooting down the Su-24, thought that his NATO colleagues would support him, but no. Everyone nodded saying “you and I”, but no one will harness for the Turks, there are no fools to fight for Erdogan’s interests and ambitions.

    And the fact that diplomats cannot convey to their opponents a simple idea that it is impossible to bring down a Russian plane is the fault of the diplomats themselves. How many serious specialists do we have? Only Lavrov is heard. And he, no matter how wonderful he was, cannot replace the entire diplomatic corps. In all "tank hazardous" areas - Ukraine, Belarus, Central Asia, Transcaucasia - there must be specialists of the highest category, but what do we have? The ambassador to Ukraine is just an honorary pension, over the past 25 years there ... has everything been possible, squandering hundreds of billions of dollars along the way, and the Americans have invested $ 5 billion, but where they should. And we all know the outcome.
    Further, Transcaucasia - when there was a story with Permyakov in Armenia, neither the consul in Gyumri, nor the ambassador in Yerevan came out to people, did not reassure, the country's image was seriously damaged.

    Central Asia - how do any negative steps come from these republics, if there are so many labor migrants from Russia? Well this is a colossal resource, wisely using which, you can extract a lot of benefit, but no.

    Moral: nuclear and any other weapon is good, but diplomacy and economics also decide a lot. One does not replace the other; there are limiting factors.
    5% of the economy + 5% of diplomacy + 100% of the armed forces = 10% of influence.
    5% of the economy + 10% of diplomacy + 50% of the armed forces = 15% of influence.

    The proportion does not pretend to be accurate, but the meaning, I think, is clear.
  • Vadim237
    Vadim237 22 December 2015 14: 57 New
    43
    Remember how our border territory with Ukraine in 2014 was fired upon by the Ukrainian Armed Forces, then our citizens died, and what we did in response was nothing, they forgave and forgot everything.
    1. goblin xnumx
      goblin xnumx 22 December 2015 15: 07 New
      17
      expressed concern, recall :)
    2. Pereira
      Pereira 22 December 2015 15: 08 New
      +2
      And here it will be the same.
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. svd-xnumx
      svd-xnumx 22 December 2015 20: 32 New
      +6
      Remember how our border territory with Ukraine in 2014 was fired upon by the Ukrainian Armed Forces, then our citizens died, and what we did in response was nothing, they forgave and forgot everything.
      In Zelenopolie, near Ilovaisk, they “forgave” and “forgot”.
    5. sergo1914
      sergo1914 23 December 2015 13: 24 New
      0
      Stationary art positions, constantly scurrying ammunition trucks and an instant collective response across the beyond to any sneeze. Here is how it was. And not "forgiven" and "forgotten."
  • Alexander Romanov
    Alexander Romanov 22 December 2015 15: 11 New
    41
    The article was published in Today, 14: 48
    Next koment first in Sinister Today, 14:49
    The question is, though, did he read something besides the headline?
    At the same time, they threw him 7 pluses, the question is for what?
    1. Ami du peuple
      Ami du peuple 22 December 2015 15: 15 New
      13
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      At the same time, they threw him 7 pluses, the question is for what?

      For the "Caliber"! Today it is such a sacred word, paving the way for an explosive upgrade. bully
      1. Sinister
        Sinister 22 December 2015 15: 22 New
        +6
        Quote: Ami du peuple
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        At the same time, they threw him 7 pluses, the question is for what?

        For the "Caliber"! Today it is such a sacred word, paving the way for an explosive upgrade. bully

        “Poplars” give much more to the rating, but I am for an adequate response to the aggressor wassat
      2. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 22 December 2015 15: 23 New
        +5
        Quote: Ami du peuple
        For the "Caliber"! Today it is such a sacred word, paving the way for an explosive upgrade

        Already there is the "Order of witnesses launch" Caliber. laughing
        1. avva2012
          avva2012 22 December 2015 17: 17 New
          -2
          In the article, it is repeatedly repeated, “they shot down an airplane”, “they shot down an airplane”, this is a mantra, apparently. What, the author said new? Let’s apply TNW, so on the forum, every second spoke about this. Emotion, nothing more. Information in what? Apparently not for my intellect. Personally, I did not understand. I repeat the letter, I did not understand, Nikolay, Khariton, Ulyana, etc.
      3. _Vladislav_
        _Vladislav_ 22 December 2015 15: 36 New
        0
        Quote: Ami du peuple
        For the "Caliber"! Today it is such a sacred word, paving the way for an explosive upgrade.

        Agree laughing

        So what. All according to Prokhorov. He once said that we are a fashionable nation.
        Well, to launch Caliber is also fashionable, it is creative))) As well as talking about it.
        1. 1976AG
          1976AG 22 December 2015 15: 42 New
          0
          Fashionable and creative launch of Caliber ??? What is it like? Run Gauges efficiently.
    2. Sinister
      Sinister 22 December 2015 15: 16 New
      -2
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      The article was published in Today, 14: 48
      Next koment first in Sinister Today, 14:49
      The question is, though, did he read something besides the headline?
      At the same time, they threw him 7 pluses, the question is for what?

      For the beauty of the face wassat
      There are also a lot of minuses ... wassat
      Really read before commenting
      And you, I watch how Don Quixote is struggling with mills? laughing
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 22 December 2015 15: 22 New
        +2
        Quote: Sinister
        And you, I watch how Don Quixote is struggling with mills?

        Oh, yes, this is Lyoska Transyzr himself.
        Lesha, but you didn’t confuse the site, here the sexual minority is not honored. Would you go to yours.
        1. Sinister
          Sinister 22 December 2015 15: 29 New
          -4
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          Quote: Sinister
          And you, I watch how Don Quixote is struggling with mills?

          Oh, yes, this is Lyoska Transyzr himself.
          Lesha, but you didn’t confuse the site, here the sexual minority is not honored. Would you go to yours.

          No Sanya, the fact that you are here Moder still does not make the site blue wassat
          Will you start correcting my comments and projecting your fantasies again?
          1. Alexander Romanov
            Alexander Romanov 22 December 2015 15: 45 New
            0
            Quote: Sinister
            Will you start correcting my comments and projecting your fantasies again?

            Lesha, I’ll tell you so, then you won’t find yourself a guy, go to special sites.
            1. Sinister
              Sinister 22 December 2015 16: 04 New
              0
              Quote: Alexander Romanov
              Quote: Sinister
              Will you start correcting my comments and projecting your fantasies again?

              Lesha, I’ll tell you so, then you won’t find yourself a guy, go to special sites.

              We had a fight with this moderator because of a girl. And who is he treating here? wassat
    3. Letun
      Letun 22 December 2015 15: 28 New
      +8
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      The article was published in Today, 14: 48
      Next koment first in Sinister Today, 14:49
      The question is, though, did he read something besides the headline?
      At the same time, they threw him 7 pluses, the question is for what?

      Well, right there all sorts of Baikonur and the same Lehi show an example of how you can quickly and easily farm plusegi to marshals. So the people are studying lol

      The article resembles a conversation with a drunk man. One and the same in a circle. If the author had heard about the fact that brevity is the sister of talent, it would turn out three times shorter.
    4. Tjeck
      Tjeck 22 December 2015 15: 40 New
      0
      Well, many read fluently, and I'm one of them. If the topic of the article is ordinary and there are a lot of letters, then I usually read only the introduction and the end. although the child prodigy or his majesty Caesar, for 1 minute ... laughing
      1. _Vladislav_
        _Vladislav_ 22 December 2015 15: 48 New
        12
        Quote: Tjeck
        Well, many read fluently, and I'm one of them. If the topic of the article is ordinary and there are a lot of letters, then I usually read only the introduction and the end. although the child prodigy or his majesty Caesar, for 1 minute ..

        Well, it happens in different ways. There is an article, although a big one, but if the topic is topical, it is addictive, and you read it, read it, read it.
        But sometimes it doesn’t catch, well, not a read read. You run through such an article quickly.

        In this case, I liked the article, I just tried to explain many times what the author reflected today. Namely: Everyone smoothly does not care about our Yars with Topoli. By the fact that everyone smoothly understands that we are afraid of a global nuclear war. And then it turns out that you can shoot down some sort of plane.
        1. matross
          matross 22 December 2015 18: 58 New
          15
          Quote: _Vladislav_
          Everyone smoothly does not care about our Yars with Topoli. By the fact that everyone smoothly understands that we are afraid of a global nuclear war. And then it turns out that you can shoot down some sort of plane.

          Right. And so that everyone becomes “not smoothly” a demonstration is needed. And not only the capabilities of weapons, but also the determination to use them. Turkey is not suitable for demonstration only - the facility is large. Burning it in thermonuclear fire will be ... somewhat excessive and harmful to the ecology of southern Russia. But conventional weapons are troublesome and expensive. For an ordinary one of the Baltic pages is quite suitable - it remains to wait for sensible provocation from them and immediately respond with a missile strike to the entire military infrastructure, without declaring war, occupation or other burdensome procedures. At the same time, all European rats will understand for themselves that no collective defense of NATO exists for them.
          And for the nuclear test site, the ideal target is Qatar. Small but scary and quite distant. One “Blue” from the Indian Ocean is enough for her. And international Islamic terrorism will quiet down right away ... And what oil prices await us as a bonus oooh ... fabulous. Just do not remind you that some people still live there, humanism, etc.
          1. BLACK-SHARK-64
            BLACK-SHARK-64 22 December 2015 20: 02 New
            0
            Especially from the West, humanism does not extend to Russia at all .... we have not come face ... bully
          2. Suhow
            Suhow 22 December 2015 20: 25 New
            0
            The idea is interesting, in the sense of scaring, but the use of nuclear weapons is too much ...
        2. BLACK-SHARK-64
          BLACK-SHARK-64 22 December 2015 19: 59 New
          0
          and not one ... and then. as they say, "geniuses" will go into "fashion" .... and WHAT ????? sit and write notes of protest ???? Then let's all write a letter to Obama together and ask us not to touch us ... It is better to die in a nuclear fire ... am
        3. Suhow
          Suhow 22 December 2015 20: 22 New
          +3
          Even in the first articles, I talked about the downed Su, and I repeat, the Russian Federation must be answered adequately, otherwise they will start to lay down on it, but revenge is a cold dish. It would be possible to get an answer right away, but it didn’t, now you need to wait, but if the answer is for Su from the Russian Federation will not (sanctions on tomatoes not that) then the question of raising the Russian Federation from its knees will remain a chant.
      2. Sinister
        Sinister 22 December 2015 16: 07 New
        0
        Quote: Tjeck
        Well, many read fluently, and I'm one of them. If the topic of the article is ordinary and there are a lot of letters, then I usually read only the introduction and the end. although the child prodigy or his majesty Caesar, for 1 minute ... laughing

        They also give out news with a rotten 2-3 days ago, sometimes you open the "news" and you understand that you have already read
    5. Uncle
      Uncle 22 December 2015 16: 27 New
      +1
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      The question is, though, did he read something besides the headline?

      What for? For this, he was the first to leave “his mark”, inherited, so to speak.
      1. sssla
        sssla 22 December 2015 17: 17 New
        +2
        Quote: Uncle
        What for? For this, he was the first to leave “his mark”, inherited, so to speak.

        Yes, there are many such marshals who want to remove the "innocence" of the article and be the first !!
        On the "critics" the hat is on !!!
    6. Lelek
      Lelek 22 December 2015 18: 25 New
      +4
      Quote: Alexander Romanov
      The question is, though, did he read something besides the headline?


      Alexander, it’s no secret that many “commentaries” read the title of the article and its summary, and on this basis they write down their opuses and “cheers, smash, smash, bomb”. Well, what can I do - democracy, publicity, tolerance, you know. Ignore the pros and cons and EVERYTHING WILL BE A BEAM.
    7. nrex
      nrex 22 December 2015 19: 20 New
      -1
      Alexander, I understand that you are an old-timer here, you were disturbed by seven pluses for a beginner and not a single word on the topic. It's time to grow up. Greed and ambition are not brought to good.
      1. Alexander Romanov
        Alexander Romanov 23 December 2015 05: 35 New
        -1
        Quote: nrex
        Greed and ambition are not brought to good.

        Deep into the drum for a novice, especially since the novice is already in the bath. Yes, and he is not quite a novice. But if you personally are in Caif, read such comments, read, no one bothers.
  • Denis Obukhov
    Denis Obukhov 22 December 2015 15: 13 New
    47
    My opinion is that the destruction of the Su-24 was not necessary for Turkey and not even for Erdogan. This was necessary for Washington. But Turkey and Erdogan were simply used. It was a check. Reconnaissance in battle. It was important for Washington to know how Russia would behave, having lost a plane in Syria, moreover, not from air defense of militants, but from a "stab in the back" from NATO. Washington wanted to know what exactly Russia would do when it found itself in a conflict with one of the NATO countries.
    The British have the following saying: "Why bark yourself when there is a dog." It was on this principle that Erdogan was persuaded to strike a test blow. So that, if anything, the Russian uncle piled in response to the Turkish boy, and not to the English gentleman.
    I would be glad to make a mistake, but it seems to me that the Kremlin’s response to the Turkish “stab in the back” opened up wide opportunities for our “partners” from Washington to drive Russia into the “economic corner”.
    If Russia began to impose economic sanctions in response to military provocations, despite the fact that it is the economy of Russia that is the weakest point, then ... will this place be hit now?
    They say - where it is thin, there it breaks. And subtly in Russia it is in the economy. Even finer than the Soviet Union had at one time. Remember how the USA achieved a “victory” over the USSR? The United States could not defeat the USSR in direct military confrontation. And they were just afraid of the “Mexican draw”. As a result, they achieved their goal by cornering the Soviet economy, and of course, not without the help of the Soviet elite, which had degraded and betrayed their country
    1. dsi
      dsi 22 December 2015 15: 27 New
      +4
      despite the fact that Russia’s economy is the weakest point, it means ... will this place be beaten now?

      Not this, just GDP showed that this is not the weakest point. Therefore, Kerry rushed to us ...
    2. _Vladislav_
      _Vladislav_ 22 December 2015 15: 52 New
      +3
      Quote: Denis Obukhov
      My opinion is that the destruction of the Su-24 was not necessary for Turkey and not even for Erdogan. This was necessary for Washington. But Turkey and Erdogan were simply used.

      I completely admit. For the United States, this is beneficial. BUT.

      The Turks have one big IDEA. Which is called the Ottoman Empire (it’s only Turkish as communism), and the requiem for this dream does not give ordinary Turks day or night. So the hormones were taken from them by enzymes.
    3. Akella
      Akella 22 December 2015 15: 58 New
      29
      Quote: Denis Obukhov
      Remember how the USA achieved a “victory” over the USSR?

      There was no victory over the USSR! (Write the word in quotation marks, even without them.)
      USSR surrendered the "top" of society and the state. This was the first "color" revolution conducted by the Americans, when they used the supporters of "perestroika and glasnost" in vain. What did the “Interregional Deputy Group” of the USSR people's deputies alone cost? This group already in 1989 played the role of "Maidan" against our country!
      I well remember the nationalist cries of activists from among the people's deputies of the RSFSR: “We will not feed the Central Asian republics!”, “We will survive, we don’t need a union of three earflaps (Russia, Belarus and Ukraine) and five skullcaps (Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan, Kyrgyzstan, Turkmenistan , Tajikistan)! "
      And later it turned out that there are no markets for Russian goods, there is nowhere to create military bases to protect Russia at distant approaches. The country's industry has been destroyed, $ 1,5 trillion of capital has been exported abroad, cultural property has been looted, social achievements have been destroyed.
      About 15-20 years ago, I also thought that it was necessary to threaten various Switzerland with a nuclear club, where the capital stolen from the Soviet people is hiding. What naivety! Who will demand the forcible return of capital if the secret owners of the same capital are seated in the government?
      1. _Vladislav_
        _Vladislav_ 22 December 2015 16: 15 New
        11
        Quote: Akella
        There was no victory over the USSR! (Write the word in quotation marks, even without them.)
        USSR surrendered the "top" of society and the state.

        It can be called - even a pot. But this was a US victory over the USSR. There were no battles and battles, yes. But the final goal was achieved.

        Somehow in one of the programs they said very clearly:
        While the USSR was building rockets, it was defeated - with jeans, Coca-Cola and a bare ass on TV.
        1. Alexei
          Alexei 22 December 2015 17: 28 New
          -2
          Quote: _Vladislav_
          Somehow in one of the programs they said very clearly:
          While the USSR was building rockets, it was defeated - with jeans, Coca-Cola and a bare ass on TV.

          But now we have a vaccine?
          1. avva2012
            avva2012 22 December 2015 17: 55 New
            +3
            Not. Look at the muses -TV. There will be no conservative ideology, the same thing will happen again. Only much worse.
          2. BLACK-SHARK-64
            BLACK-SHARK-64 22 December 2015 20: 17 New
            +4
            The vaccine will work when young people remember their traditions and culture, when normal education reappears, etc. We will see this when they remove From TV Dom2 ...
        2. Lelek
          Lelek 22 December 2015 18: 43 New
          +9
          Quote: _Vladislav_
          Somehow in one of the programs they said very clearly:
          While the USSR was building rockets, it was defeated - with jeans, Coca-Cola and a bare ass on TV.


          Beautifully said and - in the bull's-eye.
          But now, when we are trying to sew jeans, pour “phantom” and “Baltic”, and on TV to demonstrate “young stage talents” with half-naked children “prim” and “kings”, we are surrounded around the entire perimeter of the borders with armor, airplanes, rockets, missile defense systems and armada ships under various flags. So think about it: - and which is better - the first or second.
          1. BLACK-SHARK-64
            BLACK-SHARK-64 22 December 2015 20: 24 New
            +9
            Exactly, there’s just wild fun on TV .... Roughly speaking, dusting the brains and beating up normal consciousness .... Plus, the frantic politicization of TV, one way (Ukraine) and the other (Syria) ... about internal problems ZERO ... And we have a million of them .... 1. Economics, 2. Education. 3. Medicine, etc. Officials do nothing, the oligarchs continue to plunder the bowels and buy yachts ... Governors steal in black ... People live worse day by day ... Or maybe this is a secret American weapon ????????? 7 am
            1. Boos
              Boos 22 December 2015 20: 57 New
              0
              And someone at the helm closes his eyes to this.
            2. zritel
              zritel 23 December 2015 01: 19 New
              0
              What are your plans, Mr. Fix ???
      2. BLACK-SHARK-64
        BLACK-SHARK-64 22 December 2015 20: 14 New
        +3
        And these capitals are stored in Europe and America ..... The main enemies are our oligarchs, and then the Turks and various natives ... am
    4. Uncle
      Uncle 22 December 2015 16: 33 New
      0
      Quote: Denis Obukhov
      This was necessary for Washington. But Turkey and Erdogan were simply used. It was a check.

      It seems to me that this is more of an emotional reaction to the loss of oil revenues. After all, Endogar is not alone there, the environment is crushing, it was necessary to do at least something. Well, I did it to keep up.
    5. avva2012
      avva2012 22 December 2015 17: 48 New
      +6
      You, as a matter of fact, said at the end of the commentary, "who betrayed her country to the Soviet elite." Not so, everything was scary with the economy. You could get out. The weakest point, indeed, is not the economy. If, the next traitor at the top of power will not be ...
    6. BLACK-SHARK-64
      BLACK-SHARK-64 22 December 2015 20: 09 New
      +1
      If you have brains, you can pump up weak muscles ... pick up sports equipment, make the right regimen and don’t be lazy .... And in our economy .... if you do nothing, then there will be nothing ... Russia is a self-sufficient country, only non-self-sufficient officials are at the helm .. (The President does not belong to this, because he is conducting the right international policy) hi
  • dsi
    dsi 22 December 2015 15: 19 New
    +2
    Revenge is like an okroshka.
  • Boos
    Boos 22 December 2015 15: 20 New
    +6
    Like the phrase from the "Officers" ...- The commander must think! Think! And do not wave your saber!
  • max702
    max702 22 December 2015 15: 20 New
    19
    Quote: Sinister
    I think the gauges on the runway had to shoot ...

    Alas, it will not work! They will not take it seriously, but they will perceive it as weakness .. It has long been said that all our troubles are caused by the fact that we are not afraid! AA therefore do not respect. They don’t want to honestly conduct business with us because we are no match for them and not deceiving a sucker is stupid. Russia acts as a sucker .. How ashamed it would sound! What have we done on all the attacks towards Russia over the past 20 years? Nothing! The author cited Crimea as an example, but a good example BUT did this change something? we again got half the way! Donbass rose, we certainly helped but by half measures .. there was still a desire to get in and eat a fish .. We would smash the entire military component of Ukraine and end it up. there is a technical possibility of this, and in the Rada and the SBU it would be quite possible to plant five calibers .. Yes, cruelly and so on, but I DON'T! We so want and that's it. Next time, the warheads will be nuclear .. that’s the whole story. Now all this rubbish with sanctions and other attacks towards our country has already been written before, it is connected with one, namely with the factor of ABSOLUTE CONFIDENCE that we will not use nuclear weapons under any circumstances! Therefore, they can do anything to achieve the goal ..
  • self-propelled
    self-propelled 22 December 2015 15: 25 New
    0
    Quote: Sinister
    I think the gauges on the runway had to shoot ...

    somehow weak, however. why trifle there - "Poplars" yes in Ankara and Istanbul.
    1. alicante11
      alicante11 22 December 2015 16: 13 New
      +6
      somehow weak, however. why trifle there - "Poplars" yes in Ankara and Istanbul.


      And what, excuse me, is the problem?
      Two Turkish should be shot down on a downed Russian plane. Then it would never occur to anyone to shoot down our planes. That is why for some reason Jews have the right to demolish everything on the side of the border with which the shell arrived, which didn’t even hit anyone. But Russia cannot. And if it uses the "north wind", then it bashfully hides its eyes, they say, these are all volunteers.
      NATO would swallow it and not harness for Turkey. They do not need nuclear armageddets.
      The only thing that can explain such “restraint” of GDP is the desire, without interference from the Janissaries, to finish off the earcaps in Syria. But if they want to interfere with us, then they will not stop.
      1. self-propelled
        self-propelled 22 December 2015 18: 42 New
        +2
        Quote: alicante11
        And what, excuse me, is the problem?
        Two Turkish should be shot down on a downed Russian plane. Then it would never occur to anyone to shoot down our planes. That is why for some reason Jews have the right to demolish everything on the side of the border with which the shell arrived, which didn’t even hit anyone. But Russia cannot. And if it uses the "north wind", then it bashfully hides its eyes, they say, these are all volunteers.

        the fact that NATO would not have stuck in Russia’s "otvetka" for the downed "Sushka" - I agree. But what would this “otvetka" of Russia cost? how will you supply Russian forces in Syria? aviation through Iran and Iraq (I have already talked about this) is costly and unsafe, by ships through Gibraltar or the Suez Canal - for a long time. or do you propose by force to “cut through” the road through the Turkish Straits? so the Turks’ army seems to be not amusing troops, and initially all this provocation with the Su-24 was designed for a tough response from Russia (as for me, "screamers" with speeches in the style "Russia is a world aggressor and tyrant ...", additional sanctions, etc.).
        and your words are an example -
        Quote: alicante11
        The only thing that can explain such a “restraint” of GDP is the desire, without interference from the Janissaries, to finish off the earcaps in Syria

        apparently GDP and Co. found another way and put in place Erdogan, and leave the straits open ...
  • alexng
    alexng 22 December 2015 16: 13 New
    +5
    Where we don’t grab the mind, we grab the gun, but we must do so to discourage centuries not only from the Turks, but also from other non-humans to do the same with the citizens of Russia. And this is a different approach and more effective. Nothing is over yet. Putin doesn’t forgive such things and the answer will be “no statute of limitations”.
    1. Army soldier2
      Army soldier2 22 December 2015 17: 13 New
      +2
      Emotions are emotions, but these are emotions of a provocateur, not a fool. Does the author seriously believe that human relations can be transferred to interstate? The Military Doctrine of the Russian Federation states that Russia will use nuclear weapons first in case of a threat to the existence of the state. The author did not read or against such approaches? By the way, weapons to Georgia were supplied by all countries of Eastern Europe. Do they use nuclear weapons? The Turks killed the pilot, and the Americans adopted the adopted boy Dima. Let's hit them too. The author is raving. And raving "in a circle."
      At VO, some do not like Putin - "he gave me all the strength." Well, here's a presidential candidate for you. He gets up from the couch, but as he waves his nuclear saber, all the bad boys will roll head over heels.
      Bullshit, with no arguments and at least basic knowledge in political science and military art.
    2. Boos
      Boos 22 December 2015 19: 39 New
      0
      Let's see, I want to believe.
    3. Kuzyakin15
      Kuzyakin15 22 December 2015 21: 14 New
      +5
      Quote: alexneg
      Where we don’t grab the mind, we grab the gun, but we must do so to discourage centuries not only from the Turks, but also from other non-humans to do the same with the citizens of Russia. And this is a different approach and more effective. Nothing is over yet. Putin doesn’t forgive such things and the answer will be “no statute of limitations”.

      Yes brost! How many provocations on the part of Ukraine and other ushlepok was. And who didn’t forgive?
      The situation is like in the cartoon about the cat Leopold: We meow, guys, let's live, be peaceful.
      That's just no doctor will come and bring a beast.
      1. alexng
        alexng 22 December 2015 21: 32 New
        0
        Dill still pay - not yet evening. It is just necessary to behave in such a way that the Ukrainian people hate the current junta and are already moving towards this. Stock up on popcorn ukro-comedy has already begun.
  • nemec55
    nemec55 22 December 2015 14: 52 New
    +7
    One unpleasant question arises: "what next?" How to live with all this?

    Very simple time heals. We do not need an extra enemy (in the person of the people of Turkey) And Erdogan should preferably go forward with his feet, which the President said in a soft form.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 22 December 2015 14: 54 New
      +3
      This will not go anywhere.
    2. 1976AG
      1976AG 22 December 2015 15: 06 New
      +4
      How to live? Live willingly to respond to any provocation. And do not tear your hair for not taking revenge for the downed plane - the story has not yet ended and the case will still be presented. And then we recall everything. Not war, but a pendell will be sensitive.
  • kil 31
    kil 31 22 December 2015 14: 54 New
    +2
    Well, now US planes have left that air base from where the plane that shot down ours. It would be possible to work on it. But everything was hushed up and calmed down, which is a pity.
    1. Sirocco
      Sirocco 22 December 2015 15: 15 New
      +5
      Quote: Kil 31
      Well, now US planes left that airbase,

      Weren't these planes that left the base worked for our Drying?
      1. kil 31
        kil 31 22 December 2015 16: 11 New
        0
        Quote: Sirocco
        Quote: Kil 31
        Well, now US planes left that airbase,

        Weren't these planes that left the base worked for our Drying?

        Of course there are such thoughts. But they swear and swear that their planes were in hangars. They do not help Turkish air defense.
  • Vladimirets
    Vladimirets 22 December 2015 14: 56 New
    +7
    “I think it was then, in 2008, in Moscow that they began to develop plans for the“ return of the Crimea. ”

    I do not think so.
    I still do not understand what the author wants? Hit nuclear weapons in Turkey? fool
    1. goblin xnumx
      goblin xnumx 22 December 2015 15: 08 New
      +2
      a lot of bukovs, a lot of money, but I also didn’t catch the point
    2. Sirocco
      Sirocco 22 December 2015 15: 23 New
      +7
      Quote: Vladimirets
      I still do not understand what the author wants? Hit nuclear weapons in Turkey?

      Probably this scenario was laid down, the developers of this provocation, just not vigorous, but still waiting for an answer.
      After such an answer, we would have to forget about Syria and disentangle the conflict on our borders, I think the Ukrainian troops pulled to the Russian border in time, would play a role for which they were pulled up.
      Well, our commander in chief did not fall for this LAZA. I think now, soberly, everything is done right.
      Well, for Turkey, The expectation of death is worse than death itself.
      GDP is the master of silent blow.
      Let itch from every rustle.
      1. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 22 December 2015 15: 31 New
        +3
        Quote: Sirocco
        Probably this scenario was laid down, the developers of this provocation, just not vigorous, but still waiting for an answer.

        They waited for something, but the massacre with conventional weapons was completely useless to us.
        Quote: Sirocco
        The expectation of death is worse than death itself.
        GDP is the master of silent blow.
        Let itch from every rustle.

        Revenge is a cold dish, and the East, as always, was waiting for hot horseback action. smile
    3. Chiropractor
      Chiropractor 22 December 2015 16: 56 New
      +3
      Quote: Vladimirets
      Hit nuclear weapons in Turkey


      On the contrary, how do you analyze the material?
      If you take it simplistically, then we are forced by small provocations of a non-nuclear nature to deliver a tactical strike. Our kindness is perceived as weakness and impudent.
      Germany, France, the United States are stronger than us economically - and they kick us economically (sanctions).
      NATO is militarily stronger - they kick us in this context (they shoot down planes).
      And we are stronger than them ONLY in the nuclear aspect, but we cannot kick them in this projection of our strength for "humanistic reasons" - we are not animals.
      And they are animals.

      They are exceptional, and therefore everything is possible for them. Eliminating the terrorists responsible for the death of the Olympic team around the world is a series of subtle operations expected from Israel and provoked applause in the "civilized world." And from Russia they expect a blow with a club. Tank is expensive.
      It remains only nuclear. They count on this.

      My mind is frankly not enough to rise above the situation and come up with an alternative elegant solution to the "answer."
      Disrupt the operation of NATO radars so that the Turks, shooting down the next "our" plane, actually shot down German? Unrealistic.
      Perhaps Peshmerga chop off part of Turkey under its Kurdistan?
      Who else sees the prospects?
      Perhaps the IRGC will sink the Saudi tanker?
      1. Vladimirets
        Vladimirets 22 December 2015 18: 19 New
        0
        Ok let me misunderstand but
        Quote: Kostoprav
        Disrupt the operation of NATO radars so that the Turks, shooting down the next "our" plane, actually shot down German? Unrealistic.
        Perhaps Peshmerga chop off part of Turkey under its Kurdistan?
        Who else sees the prospects?
        Perhaps the IRGC will sink the Saudi tanker?

        so with my first question
        Quote: Vladimirets
        what the author wants

        request
  • Million
    Million 22 December 2015 14: 58 New
    +5
    I think: what would Stalin, Brezhnev, Andropov do if the Turks shot down a Soviet military plane?
    1. 1976AG
      1976AG 22 December 2015 15: 18 New
      +1
      And in what year in the Far East did the states miss and strike the Soviet airfield?
    2. kepmor
      kepmor 22 December 2015 16: 03 New
      +5
      No doubt, the answer would be just awesome!
      After all, these "state leaders" and their entourage did not have accounts in offshore companies, the children studied and lived in the USSR, there were mansions, but in the Crimea and in Pitsunda! They had nothing to lose and they were not afraid of anyone or anything!
      Now the situation is completely different ...
    3. avva2012
      avva2012 22 December 2015 18: 07 New
      +2
      Stalin, agreed. Yielded something to the UN. And not only. Answered in Korea. I agreed with China, in terms of readiness to throw over the strait of a dozen of two million Chinese with our weapons. Weapons were enough, yes, here are the people at the end of the Second World War, alas. It seems to me that the United States and nuclear weapons were not used, precisely because of this threat. In general, Stalin did not wave his saber.
  • NKVD
    NKVD 22 December 2015 15: 01 New
    31
    The train left. Turkey needed a military response to the act of aggression. The weakness of the current government does not give rise to respect in the world. Since we can’t give a decent answer to spitting in the back of a bankrupt Ukraine, we continue to flirt with the fascist state, for example, on gas discounts. That's where we are before Turkey, its army and economy will be several times stronger than the Ukrainian one. Illness within the state does not give rise to a healthy attitude from the outside. We don’t put thieves at the state treasury, we shield the prosecutors from the symptoms of a dangerous disease.
    1. kepmor
      kepmor 22 December 2015 15: 49 New
      +8
      "... We don’t plant thieves with state treasures, we block the prosecutors, the symptoms of a dangerous disease ..."
      This is no longer a disease, it is a "METASTASIS of a cancerous tumor" in a RUSSIAN country!
      The worst thing is that today there is no "surgical team" that can remove this muck!
    2. Uncle
      Uncle 22 December 2015 16: 39 New
      +2
      Quote: NKVD
      Since we can’t give a decent answer to spitting in the back of Ukraine’s bankruptcy, we continue to flirt with the fascist state

      In Ukraine, not all fascists, the people there speak Russian, treat their power the same way we do, and they did not shoot down the plane, the Boeing does not count. So it's not a true comparison.
  • Ami du peuple
    Ami du peuple 22 December 2015 15: 03 New
    -1
    I know what any Ukrainian will say: “Well, the lads went to Georgia, to shoot the litaki of trochi. They returned with money and fame, because - free Cossacks! ”

    I am the author does not know anything about the future fate of the mentioned Ukrainian pvoshnikov? Various rumors are circulating, including about their suddenly manifested, increased suicidal tendency. “Conscience probably does not give rest” - this is how informed comrades explain such an incident.
    1. Ami du peuple
      Ami du peuple 22 December 2015 15: 30 New
      +2
      Quote: Ami du peuple
      I am the author does not know anything about the future fate of the mentioned Ukrainian pvoshnikov?

      Oh, it turned out funny .. This sentence should be read like this: "I, I think, the author does not know anything about the future fate of the mentioned Ukrainian pvoshnikov?"
      Sorry, the failure of the Internet did not allow you to edit the post sad
      1. Army soldier2
        Army soldier2 22 December 2015 17: 30 New
        +2
        Andrei, do you even sleep sometimes? for 9 days 141 comment.
  • Ingvar 72
    Ingvar 72 22 December 2015 15: 04 New
    +4
    It remains to understand what can serve as the basis for the outbreak of hostilities? The landing of the American Marines in St. Petersburg?
    Better vice versa.
  • meriem1
    meriem1 22 December 2015 15: 06 New
    12
    Cool written. Taking off my hat. Just what I think!
  • Alexey RA
    Alexey RA 22 December 2015 15: 06 New
    +6
    Ukrainian parliamentarians in this story were thrilled by the fact that Buki was "sold" for next to nothing. The fact that, for example, missiles to Bukami were delivered from Russia and it is impossible to re-export them, remained behind the scenes.

    EMNIP, Ukrainians were indignant not only with the amount of the transaction. They were also indignant at the fact that the air defense systems delivered to Georgia were removed from combat duty - there were no serviceable complexes from storage.
  • Gray 43
    Gray 43 22 December 2015 15: 07 New
    10
    In Georgia, in addition to the Ukrainian calculations by Bukov, the work of Ukrainian specialists in the field of intelligence was also noted, one of them interrogated our soldier captured, this episode was in the film of A. Mamontov about that war
    1. Igor39
      Igor39 22 December 2015 15: 20 New
      +2
      And the Jews also helped
      1. avva2012
        avva2012 22 December 2015 18: 14 New
        0
        whatWell, where without them. If there is no water in the tap .... fool
    2. moskowit
      moskowit 22 December 2015 15: 58 New
      14
      It all started much earlier. Ukrainian military experts fought against us in Chechnya, on our territory, and no consequences.
      And for the fact that the Hero of Russia, Colonel Yury Dmitrievich Budanov announced this publicly, he suffered. At first, the criminal case was falsified, and then the attempt, which took the son faithful to her from the country ...
      1. BLACK-SHARK-64
        BLACK-SHARK-64 22 December 2015 20: 48 New
        +2
        Eternal memory to the Hero .... But who was responsible for the death of the Hero ???? angry
  • corn
    corn 22 December 2015 15: 08 New
    +6
    In ancient times there was a joke (though black): "The Soviet people perishing must know that they will be avenged." It would be nice if this joke was understood by both Americans, Germans and others.
  • Specialist 77
    Specialist 77 22 December 2015 15: 11 New
    23
    sanctions extended .... apologize for the downed drying, are not going to .... the Arabs are building up an alliance to allegedly resolve the Syrian issue .... oil has gone to minus .... the ruble has stepped over, already all psychological thresholds .... not is it time for statesmen to raise the question with a sharp edge .... so to speak, to remind you that all these shortcomings have already lifted up, and the country is morally ready to solve the issue, including with the use of ..... cold shower, so to speak ... .
    1. BLACK-SHARK-64
      BLACK-SHARK-64 22 December 2015 20: 50 New
      -1
      Isn't it better to die in battle ??? than to live as a slave ??? angry
  • The comment was deleted.
  • shinobi
    shinobi 22 December 2015 15: 13 New
    0
    Erdogan will be thrown out of politics, the Turks will apologize retroactively and everything will start from scratch.
    1. BLACK-SHARK-64
      BLACK-SHARK-64 22 December 2015 20: 51 New
      0
      but Turkish morality will never change ...
  • Samen
    Samen 22 December 2015 15: 14 New
    +3
    The article, which is called: loud thoughts ... the fact that politics is a dirty business, and the world is "not invented by us" to most readers, and so it is clear. The question "to bomb or not to bomb" remains open ... What shall we do ??? no
  • Max40
    Max40 22 December 2015 15: 14 New
    0
    Quote: Million
    I think: what would Stalin, Brezhnev, Andropov do if the Turks shot down a Soviet military plane?


    I think the next TSSR and the Stalin Strait would appear on the map.)))
  • Oznob
    Oznob 22 December 2015 15: 15 New
    0
    Revenge is a cold dish.
  • mpzss
    mpzss 22 December 2015 15: 17 New
    -4
    I do not understand, the author suggests starting the third world war !? I sympathize with the relatives of the dead pilot and paratrooper, but the death of these two heroes should not lead to the death of thousands or millions of other people! There is a saying: Better is a bad world than a good war!
    Yes, let them think about us that they want, that we are cowards, that we cannot stand up for ourselves, and so on, but history shows where ALL those who thought turned out to be!
    The time will come and everyone will answer as they deserve!
    1. B.T.V.
      B.T.V. 22 December 2015 15: 30 New
      21
      Quote: mpzss
      Yes, let them think about us that they want, that we are cowards, that we cannot stand up for ourselves, and so on, but history shows where ALL those who thought turned out to be!
      The time will come and everyone will answer as they deserve!


      "If you give the Europeans in the face, he will cry and run away, if the Americans, he will cry and drag you to court. If you were given a Russian in the face, then your problems are just beginning."
    2. max702
      max702 22 December 2015 16: 06 New
      14
      Quote: mpzss
      Yes, let them think about us that they want, that we are cowards, that we cannot stand up for ourselves, and so on, but history shows where ALL those who thought turned out to be!
      The time will come and everyone will answer as they deserve!

      Why do we always think of our opponents as foolish people? Type make the same mistake and DO NOT LEARN TO ANYTHING! Well, the events of the past 70 years have just proved the opposite, bastards are learning and how! Today, now perhaps the last chance to revive our country they will not be given to us anymore! no need to look back at our great past and always say we were reborn so it will continue to be .. NO! Errors were taken into account by the enemy and there will be no connivance on their part! Everyone forgets how the world has changed, technology, much more, if previously we always climbed out of the abyss due to our enormous size due to the strength of the people, now these advantages are reduced to zero, what is the fact that we have a huge country? But nothing. What is the situation with the people if the word Russian is immediately associated with nationalism. How will we be reborn again? Who will let us do this? Our enemy has the technical capabilities to totally prevent this. How will we be reborn? I look at the current state of affairs and understand that in no way .. They will not repeat past mistakes. Therefore, we must act until we are finally clamped, and while there are means and tools. tomorrow it will be too late! What nah 3 world if we iron Turkey nuclear weapons? On the contrary, world peace will be clearly closer than now, the enemy is confident in his impunity and has crossed all borders. Unlike us, they have something to lose ..
      rs: Although what am I talking about .. Here the strategists on the site assured that nuclear weapons could not be used. even if NATO begins to destroy our warships and other nuclear submarines, such as we must respond with ordinary means ..
    3. Kanatbek
      Kanatbek 22 December 2015 19: 55 New
      +5
      but there would be no war! There was simply not even half of Turkey! And that’s it!
  • Zomanus
    Zomanus 22 December 2015 15: 17 New
    +3
    I did not understand, but what did the author want to say?
    What did you have to bang?
    So too early to plow. We have drawn conclusions and warnings.
    And just do not allow repetition. And you can hit Turkey not only with nuclear weapons.
    Can they chop off gas or support Syrian troops from the air
    at the stage of entering the Syrian-Turkish border.
    The options are the sea.
    I clearly understand that we are preparing for a big war.
    For this we need funds and time, which they are trying to deprive us of.
    We then clearly understand who needs to be beaten with a vigorous loaf first of all in any situation.
    We understand, yes? And they clearly understand this. That's why they are trying to drag us into the war, but the small one,
    where the use of nuclear weapons is excessive, but where we waste a lot of resources.
    1. max702
      max702 23 December 2015 00: 22 New
      +2
      Quote: Zomanus
      And you can hit Turkey not only with nuclear weapons.

      Interestingly, what? Gauges .. well, how many of them are needed and how many do we have, by the fleet? Remain without it, the Turks have three times more, aviation? Look how many strike aircraft we have available .. I hope you don’t consider tanks and infantry? And what?
      Quote: Zomanus
      Can they chop off the gas
      as an option, but the Khokhlops cut off gas to Crimea and the light helped? What makes you think that this will work? They will immediately be helped, especially if there is someone.

      Quote: Zomanus
      or support the Syrian troops from the air
      at the stage of entering the Syrian-Turkish border.

      How to do it? What forces and means will we do? Take a look at the region a little, see how many countries there are friendly to us and how many will help the Turks in the event of a mess ..
      Quote: Zomanus
      We then clearly understand who needs to be beaten with a vigorous loaf first of all in any situation.

      Interesting for whom? In the USA come on! Here, for sure, the arctic fox will come because it is the only option when the Armageddean begins, the United States will tolerate everything else! Nobody will risk their asses for the Turks. but if they are in the USA then they can answer .. So it is safe to take out the NF Turks, we don’t have other resources for this. Everything else is fraught with terrible losses both in people and in expensive equipment, and after this war we’ll roll back for years for 20-30 and not the fact that they won’t try us in the tooth elsewhere, but since the resources are bye-bye, in order not to be defeated here you have to get nuclear weapons .. So it may not wait for the country to bleed and money will end together to many others, but is it preventive to discourage an enemy? Even with some risk?
      Quote: Zomanus
      . That's why they are trying to drag us into the war, but the small one,
      where the use of nuclear weapons is excessive, but where we waste a lot of resources.

      That's what we say that since resources are a pity (both material and human), maybe nuclear weapons are not so redundant, but just right, to stop these insinuations until everything has gone too far? I don’t want our soldiers to die there, not the pilots, not the sailors, and even more so the landing or infantry, we don’t need anything in Turkey! It is required that they just do not interfere .. Accordingly, nuclear weapons are an ideal tool for this! 100 missiles of 10-50 kilotons and all do not have a military machine in Turkey .. ISIS fighters and other trash breaks into Qatar, SA, Kuwait .. And diplomats from all over the world lined up at the Russian Foreign Ministry in Moscow with assurances of friendship and mutually beneficial partnership ..
      1. -Traveller-
        -Traveller- 23 December 2015 03: 13 New
        +2
        those. until we bomb with a vigorous bomb, the states the Americans sit and rock the boat, because they have something to lose. In this situation, we could bomb all those unwanted - Ukraine, the Baltic states, Georgia, Arabia, Qatar, Israel, Japan, Poland, Albania, England, who else we have on the list.
        and the states are sitting and looking at it.
        it's funny.
        1. max702
          max702 23 December 2015 11: 41 New
          +1
          We don’t distort everyone, for sure, for Japan maybe, but for all the others they’ve vryatli .. The more important is the fact that they took and applied, and this factor will have to be taken into account, while other states do not persuade push, and the instinct of self-preservation is the most important. All that this hour is based on the sworn assurance that they WILL NOT APPLY, and voices are heard that they doubt that Russia has nuclear weapons at all, such as a backward country, they don’t have anything .. But then they did not become a country with a second military potential in NATO .. ​​Nezhdanchik . once again I’m saying just one example with which we will confirm our readiness to use nuclear weapons and everything will change dramatically, it’s impossible to tease a bear to many, and it will not save anything, the world has gradually forgotten what nuclear weapons are and is not afraid of it, it’s like crazy does not understand the threat from armed a man, well, he doesn’t see his near death from a man with a gun .. So it will fly there once and everyone will understand everything.
  • Zena20298
    Zena20298 22 December 2015 15: 18 New
    +1
    The reality is that until Russia uses its nuclear weapons, then all these NATO mongrels will cling to us. But who needs a global apocalypse? Therefore, our government uses diplomatic and economic techniques and methods.
  • Rosty
    Rosty 22 December 2015 15: 18 New
    +6
    At a minimum, it was necessary to close the skies of Syria for Turkish aviation "until all circumstances were clarified." And shoot down, if that. They showed weakness, but sorry. Power is respected in the East, not big words.
    1. 1976AG
      1976AG 22 December 2015 16: 00 New
      0
      Does Turkish aviation fly into Syria?
    2. BARKHAN
      BARKHAN 23 December 2015 09: 37 New
      +1
      I agree. I support. hi I’m constantly thinking about these concessions. And judging by the vote of such an overwhelming majority.
      But all the same, an immediate answer would not work ... I’ll explain. It’s somehow forgotten in the discussion about the thousands of our tourists and specialists who were at that time in Turkey. The massacre could have happened.
      And it’s also forgotten that the Turks are already waging a sabotage war with us (“gray wolves” in the Crimea). So, you have to answer, but wisely and with relish ... To the most painful point.
  • Mountain shooter
    Mountain shooter 22 December 2015 15: 21 New
    -1
    “Gauges” were supposed to convince the Turks that rudeness is fraught with no need to joke with matches. They didn’t convince. Let them now wait for an answer, dying of fear. I liked the author’s thought that the Crimean operation was conceived after the crest of betrayal in Georgia. 7 years have passed. And bam. Personally, I like Constantinople. Waiting for laughing
    1. BLACK-SHARK-64
      BLACK-SHARK-64 22 December 2015 20: 42 New
      -2
      100 ++++++++++++++++
  • Specialist 77
    Specialist 77 22 December 2015 15: 24 New
    +1
    Quote: Zomanus
    I did not understand, but what did the author want to say?
    What did you have to bang?

    it’s an extreme measure .... but to remind that we are not only a nuclear power (although this is more essential), but we can stick our nose with ordinary weapons .... well, the “caliber” was not impressed by the basurman .... there are moral conversations little ..... tankers understand only armor-piercing .....
  • ibu355yandex.ru
    ibu355yandex.ru 22 December 2015 15: 25 New
    0
    Beat in the face must immediately, without rassusanivaniya! The one who hits first always comes out the winner from the fight!
    1. BLACK-SHARK-64
      BLACK-SHARK-64 22 December 2015 20: 41 New
      0
      100 +++++++++++++++++++
    2. -Traveller-
      -Traveller- 23 December 2015 03: 16 New
      +2
      a lot of examples, when the first to strike, as a result, grabbed to the fullest
  • Dormidosha
    Dormidosha 22 December 2015 15: 27 New
    +1
    GOOD ARTICLE. OF COURSE IT IS UNDERSTANDABLE HOW EVERYTHING IS DECIDED ON THE APPLICATION OF THE SYAO, BUT THE FREEDOM SHOULD ALWAYS BE SHOULDER!
  • Alexander S.
    Alexander S. 22 December 2015 15: 27 New
    +1
    respect the strong. It has always been in history .. there is and will be. otherwise provided in principle. diplomacy is needed in order to cynically use your enemy and all for your own well-being. even in trade we agree on a price on the most favorable conditions for YOURSELF ... and do not give out billions of dollars of gifts to the right and left. and we have politicians some ideas of the world socialist revolution, after which everyone will live in peace and friendship .. everyone is trying to like someone .. like girls somehow. such need immediately in the fool and give read books on history.
  • Corsair0304
    Corsair0304 22 December 2015 15: 33 New
    +3
    I also believe that it was necessary to strike at the Turkish base, from where this moronic pilot-lawless pilot took off. Or in some other way, but in a MILITARY way, and only then, in pursuit of including economic sanctions against Turkey. Wanted blood? here, scoop it up. The sowed wind will reap a storm, and impunity will cause even greater problems in the future.
    I don’t think that after this the Turkish seiner would come closer to our TFR.
    1. BLACK-SHARK-64
      BLACK-SHARK-64 22 December 2015 20: 40 New
      +2
      Any Asian perceives our kindness and honesty as weakness ... therefore, it should be continued until all teeth are removed once ... angry
  • vobels
    vobels 22 December 2015 15: 33 New
    0
    Both Erdogan and Davutoglu need to be taken out, in parts it is desirable, so as not to be mischievous.
  • Clueless
    Clueless 22 December 2015 15: 35 New
    +2
    This reminds me of a conversation with a former Ukrainian friend who said there that we are killing them and all that, like why are you so poor for us.

    And I asked him a perfectly logical question - and your citizens who fought in Chechnya and killed our Russian soldiers, why are they now in power? Why are your soldiers who shot down our planes in 2008 now serving in the army of your state?

    So for what - there are reasons, and I hope we will not forget about these reasons.
  • Gormenghast
    Gormenghast 22 December 2015 15: 35 New
    +3
    It is interesting how the situation would have developed if a Turkish plane had been shot down in hot pursuit. Naturally, over the territory of Syria. What is the difference between Turkish airspace and airspace UN-recognized state - Syria, which has universally recognized borders and territory.
  • Ded Udava
    Ded Udava 22 December 2015 15: 38 New
    +2
    Everything is clearly described, it was necessary to cover the base from where these creatures at once cover 10 kilotons, and now we’ll have to prepare all 100
  • X
    X Y Z 22 December 2015 15: 39 New
    +5
    The problem is old and still unsolvable. Even before Buki and other nasty things, our citizens and courts were repeatedly arrested in small African states under various unreasonable pretexts. And it cost us a lot of effort and money to free them. The local kings (presidents) were up to the lantern that we had nuclear weapons, they also put it out of brackets. Our diplomacy does not like sudden movements and perhaps the only example of a quick and radical response to rudeness is the events on Fr. Daman. And do not say that he still left us, this is a different story, but the educational effect exceeded all expectations. And no one doubted that we were ready to repeat this in any other place without hesitation.
    1. noWAR
      noWAR 23 December 2015 01: 02 New
      -1
      You would read more about Damansky so as not to bring nonsense.
  • Bashibuzuk
    Bashibuzuk 22 December 2015 15: 40 New
    +3
    Brothers, what does the nuclear weapon have to do with it?
    Tactical, strategic, easy, medium, heavy ... any, in short.
    What, the light converged on a nuclear weapon, or what?
    Are there few other options? Punish rebellious Turkey?
    If the author believes that our GDP is "spineless", or whoever plays the tune there ..... then it should have been stated on November 25 at 16:00 at the base from which this "F-16 terrorist" took off will be struck.
    Thermobaric weapons. The entire power of the RF Armed Forces will be used in support.
    Persons who are not interested in receiving "random gifts", please leave the specified base. Until 17 p.m.
    And - on November 24, at 23:59, howl all over the world, at the top of his voice - Ensign Ivanov Sidor Petrovich, got drunk, skaaatina, and gave a whack at the airport.
    We apologize .... it happens .. you know, sometimes in Russia they drink.
    And everyone would be wiped out. No sanctions would follow. Or they would be exactly the same.
    .
    And to the question of Putin's rabies.
    So I listened to his press conference .. and I became aware of such a reaction.
    In practice, in good Russian, Vladimir Vladimirovich said so - at the summit, they agreed with the Turks on a VERY important issue. For them. And for us. We literally stepped on the throat of our own song - but we promised. Washing teeth to the roots, pouring ice sweat. I think there was a diplomatic corps on my ears. And the creak from the teeth of our residents grind down by files, where the thread in the Asian dungeons, was heard on the street.
    But okay. I agree.
    And then - bam - and SU-24.
    And then - bam - and Turkey, to pacify the Kurds, is introducing troops into the north of Iraq.
    And how should the main contracting person feel?
    Add two and two and subtract the square root.
    .
    So I see.
  • private person
    private person 22 December 2015 15: 40 New
    -2
    The author, of course, is largely right, but if you face the truth, fighting with the Turks is to fight with all of NATO, even if it’s not direct, but we are not ready for this, who knows that he served in our army.
    1. 1976AG
      1976AG 22 December 2015 15: 48 New
      +3
      And what does it mean to fight with Turkey? To go on the attack in full growth or apply tank wedges? Weigh a good p .. dyulin and will be with her.
  • S_Baykala
    S_Baykala 22 December 2015 15: 43 New
    14
    The article is very good.
    Those who advise in response to immediately bomb, knock down, wipe off the face of the earth: Do not you remember? At that time, there was a tiny problem that prevented the immediate use of force - several tens of thousands of our fellow citizens in Turkey (most tourists). Actually hostages.
    1. Al_oriso
      Al_oriso 23 December 2015 07: 23 New
      0
      It is this fact that has cooled the general indignation of our population. Everyone remembered the tragedy of the airbus over Sinai. The trump card with our tourists was in the hands of Erdogan.
  • -Traveller-
    -Traveller- 22 December 2015 15: 43 New
    -1
    a lot of text, in short, the general sense is this: besides the vigorous bomb, we have nothing to seriously answer the Turks, because we are not at all the USSR, but much smaller and weaker. and if we are embarrassed to use nuclear weapons, then soon a pendal will come to us from some Latvia, so you should not wait for such a shame, but it is better to start a nuclear war first.
    I have a couple of questions.
    if we are not the USSR, then why are we making ourselves up as a superpower, are we measuring something with the states? may be able to bear the burden of strength, to tear the former fraternal republics for example.
    and if we agree to a nuclear war, then we agree and die in it, because such an outcome is most likely. I would like to know for what. for the sake of al-Assad, for the sake of the integrity of Syria, for the sake of not being considered weaklings, for the sake of revenge on the Turks, because of resentment towards the West as a whole, due to the fact that we are unable to deal with the economy and are tired of fighting it already. Please tell me a really good reason for a nuclear war.
  • Wedmak
    Wedmak 22 December 2015 15: 47 New
    +6
    Well, bang. Well, let's turn the Inzherlik base into a mixture of sand and glass, what's next? A statement to the UN Lavrov that this will happen to anyone who encroaches on us? This is akin to declaring war on half the world. And how the USA will take advantage of this! MMM ... a tidbit for introducing everything that is possible and impossible. The United States stretches its hands wherever it is needed, and after such an attack they will be completely untied. And under the pretext of already real Russian nuclear aggression, they will first occupy Europe completely, and then they will crush China and the rest of Asia.
    I would like to recall that you and I do not know even a tenth of what is happening in the world. And Putin has a dozen intelligence and analytical offices. He sees a chess game from above, and you are just on the side, where some pieces obscure others.
    1. onega67
      onega67 23 December 2015 11: 21 New
      +1
      And we are ready for this war, otherwise it will not work !!!
  • By001261
    By001261 22 December 2015 15: 48 New
    +2
    Very correct article very much !!! Plus definitely!
    1. BLACK-SHARK-64
      BLACK-SHARK-64 22 December 2015 20: 31 New
      +1
      100 ++++++++++++++++
  • fif21
    fif21 22 December 2015 15: 48 New
    +8
    In hand-to-hand combat, it is important not only to strike, but also the ability to keep missed is important. Russia is not the USSR, and it will have to prove its right to exist more than once. We live in a world where honesty, kindness, humanism are perceived as weakness, and meanness, lies, the right of the strong are the norm. Conclusion: we will be forced to prove our strength with our fists, and at the same time they will be shouted in surprise, "but what for us!" Three ways of coexistence are possible with Russia: 1. Neutral (you don’t touch us, we you) 2. Friendly (and a little bit of bread and half in half) 3. Confratational (sooner or later you will rake in full), and we will take the rest out of brackets wassat
  • alstr
    alstr 22 December 2015 15: 57 New
    11
    The author does not take into account the following points:
    1. During the Cold War, there were several cases on both sides when amers and I shot each other - there were aircraft and submarines. All this was simply not advertised.

    2. Ours from the very beginning did not want a conflict - if you remember, then initially ours put forward a version of fire from the ground, which gave Turkey a chance by confirming this version not to put everything on display. However, the Turks began to scream at all angles that they had brought down it. This is what infuriates our leadership. Accordingly, the showdown with Turkey is also there and will be loud.

    3. We could not give an immediate answer due to the fact that a significant number of our citizens were at that time in Turkey. Those. immediate response entailed numerous victims of our citizens.

    4. If we talk about Ukrainians in Georgia, then yes Ukraine has installed air defense systems (officially), and the calculations are not very official. However, Ukraine did not boast of this at the state level - everything was done as quietly as possible. Therefore, the showdown (and they certainly were) were also quiet.

    5. As for our military response, it should be immediate, but it was not possible by virtue of paragraph 3. Therefore, the answer has become economic. And then it is not known what is worse for Turkey. Moreover, a military response to the case is also not excluded.
  • na76
    na76 22 December 2015 16: 00 New
    18
    One urgent acquaintance served in the fleet in some coastal unit where they dealt with nuclear weapons carriers, he didn’t elaborate, for obvious reasons, after that he said that there the attitude to the "Edgar loaf" was very specific, sometimes it seemed too naughty with a touch of black humor. Then, after graduating from a university with a degree in psychology in mature thinking, it dawned on him that they, young soldiers, were simply broken by the fear of nuclear weapons. And he also said that for the most part, officers treated these missiles and torpedoes simply as weapons and not as some kind of “deterrent” or “doomsday weapon” - the same garbage as AK is only bigger and more powerful, there will be an order - a bullet where necessary, and let "the whole world in ruin." Probably the way it is necessary for the soldiers to always be ready to use it when it is really needed, and not be tormented by Shakespearean passions.
  • Belarus
    Belarus 22 December 2015 16: 01 New
    +3
    All actions of the EU and the West reminded me of one old Soviet joke:

    Two friends of an alcoholic stand in a queue for alcohol, stand for a long time. And when the line reaches them, the department closes for lunch. One turns to each other and punches him in the face. That falls and sitting on the pope asks the hit comrade:
    For what ? And he answers him: What to do ?!
    I mean that the EU and the West simply have no idea and even sometimes do not know how to behave with the Russian Federation. And accordingly, driven by instinct, they act on the principle: what happens.
  • eleronn
    eleronn 22 December 2015 16: 02 New
    +2
    All this means the unwillingness of our leadership to adequately respond to the glove thrown in the face! Yesterday a plane was shot down, today a seiner will be sunk, tomorrow a diplomatic officer will be "accidentally" killed ... And? What will be the answer?
    1. Kuzyakin15
      Kuzyakin15 22 December 2015 21: 27 New
      +2
      Quote: eleronn
      All this means the unwillingness of our leadership to adequately respond to the glove thrown in the face! Yesterday a plane was shot down, today a seiner will be sunk, tomorrow a diplomatic officer will be "accidentally" killed ... And? What will be the answer?

      I think exactly the same as it was, no.
      1. DPN
        DPN 23 December 2015 01: 27 New
        0
        That's why you think correctly +
  • Al_oriso
    Al_oriso 22 December 2015 16: 03 New
    +1
    The author of the entire article reined in the wound.
    Of course, he examined the main idea from all sides. What to do in response to ridicule, secret attacks and insults?
    One answer is to take away territories, the second is to use weapons.
    ?
    Take the straits from Turkey, the more they were ours.
    Such a conclusion.
    1. -Traveller-
      -Traveller- 22 December 2015 21: 56 New
      -1
      Do not remind me when the straits (as I understand the Bosphorus and the Dardanelles) were ours?
      1. Al_oriso
        Al_oriso 24 December 2015 13: 15 New
        0
        1915, secret agreement.
  • drop
    drop 22 December 2015 16: 04 New
    11
    The situation with Turkey is complicated. Our Government knows who is to blame for this, Ukraine is among them. I remember the events of October 1941 of the year. The battles of Leningrad. Thanks to the intervention of G.K. Zhukov managed to turn the tide on the Leningrad front. On September 21-23, the 386 bombers raided the Baltic Fleet, and the fleet was saved. The evacuation of children by the Ladoga flotilla through Ladoga began. And so the fascist pilots sank a barge with our children. Commanders and fighters saw on the water children's hats that carried the waves to the shore. And after that, our pilots did not capture a single fascist pilot. Pilots from destroyed Nazi planes were destroyed for their atrocities.
    I think that such a fate should be prepared for all those who shot at our SU-24 and the militants shooting the pilot descending by parachute. I have the honor.
    1. -Traveller-
      -Traveller- 22 December 2015 22: 06 New
      -6
      With this story, you rather explained why the Turkoman shot the paratrooper.
  • rudolff
    rudolff 22 December 2015 16: 06 New
    11
    Try to put yourself in the place of the Turks for a second. These damned Russians are breaking all plans for dividing the almost unowned Syria, they must be stopped, put in place, scared. But how? What is Turkey and what is huge Russia. A nuclear superpower with one of the most powerful armies in the world! You can shoot down a plane. What if recoil torment? After all, these “frostbitten” can wipe the whole of Turkey from the face of the Earth! Or ... Or they will be afraid and wipe themselves off? Shot down. And they were right in their calculations. It’s not enough to have a weapon, you also have to be able to ... The article asked the right questions. Russia is only lazy to kick does not strive.
  • Tartarine
    Tartarine 22 December 2015 16: 07 New
    +3
    A nuclear club is certainly too much, but at least it is necessary to stop calling enemies the partners. This is ridiculous. They want to harm our country, and we are their partners.
  • avg-mgn
    avg-mgn 22 December 2015 16: 09 New
    +4
    I fully share the author’s opinion that the nuclear shield of Russia is aimed solely at deterring the military ambitions of the United States, but not like any other, especially non-nuclear states. BUT!!! HOW TO BE? The Turks hit us in the balls, GDP promised that we won’t get rid of tomatoes here ... and then what? We will wait when these eggs are torn off ???
    1. dpu
      dpu 23 December 2015 19: 37 New
      0
      By the way, GDP has never been mistaken in its Actions.
  • worldofpain
    worldofpain 22 December 2015 16: 19 New
    +5
    I did not put a plus or minus. Judging by the article, the author is boiling up and he wants someone to get an "answer" in patsansky. But Capone would not have been Capone if he had shot at all who did bad things to him.
    1. cheap trick
      cheap trick 24 December 2015 23: 11 New
      +1
      Sorry, but he just became a capone thanks to the fact that he shot everyone!