How to take out the dead pilot

280
How to take out the dead pilot


After Su-24 was shot down over Syria, and the crew commander was shot from the ground, and incomprehensible citizens with special equipment hunted the navigator for a long time and unsuccessfully, not a crisis, but a paramilitary condition arose in Russian-Turkish relations. That day I first saw Putin in a state of quiet rabies. The next day, a “deep freeze” of relations with Turkey began, and completely non-diplomatic expressions (from Russian officials) sounded to Erdogan. And cobblestones flew to the Turkish embassy ...

So, immediately after this, a mass of printed and (almost said non-printed) appeared, no - video messages. There were a lot of them, really a lot and, most importantly, mostly sincere and frank. And the essence, as some have already guessed, was in the following: “guys, let's live together!”. Exactly and nothing else. The appeals were from both the Turks and the Russians, but their essence was precisely this: "let's not agitate, let us all calm down." I also looked at part of the appeal of the press secretary of the Turkish embassy in Moscow (it was not enough to watch everything). He, too, in an offended voice, called for peace and was amazed at the hatred of the “Turkish citizens”. The opinion of the German press was similar: “the hot nature of Putin and Erdogan is the cause of all the problems in Russian-Turkish relations”. In general, an incident happened, let's calm down everything, and let's not flog a fever. Well, calmed down, Greenpeace saved the fever.

There is one unpleasant question: “what next?” That's how to live with all this? The incident, as a rule, is random in nature: the aircraft "collided" in a confined space, and someone did not survive the nerves. It happens in the Air Force of the third world and this does not happen. Well, even in this situation it was possible to call, apologize, say: “this is a mistake, Satan beguiled, I will be a reptile” (and indeed it is - a creeping creep!). But get out, wriggle out. Putin himself admitted that he was waiting ... waiting for the call. But no. Nobody apologized in principle. It was strictly stated that everything was done correctly and henceforth it will be so. And from this very moment the situation is completely out of control.

Although in reality this situation was not unique at all. During the five-day war with Georgia, our planes were actively getting off, as it turned out, not by Georgians. Ukraine very successfully “sold” its Buki to an independent Georgia. And they shot down Russian planes, protecting the land of Sakartvelo from "aggression". “But how did the Georgians master them so quickly?” You ask and demonstrate ignorance of the subject and political naivety. Georgians did not master them, missiles launched Ukrainian calculations. But this is already quite interesting: Ukraine, after all, was not at war with Russia? Ukraine at that time is our “reliable partner”. So what? And how to understand this? By the way, then many times I met the reasoning of the Ukrainians about the fact that we were losing money from them, and their children were cold there. And the old men are freezing. And we lupim money from them. Not in Slavonic, this is not fraternal - to beat money to the death of freezing people. Ukrainians reasoned on this topic very willingly. On the subject of the dead Russian pilots refused to argue categorically. It is not interesting for them to discuss it. And I like that, immediately found the information on the four Russian pilots killed. Do not brothers, speak?

I know what any Ukrainian will say: “Well, the lads drove up to Georgia, to cast fires from the Troch. They returned with money and fame, because they are free Cossacks! ”Ukrainian parliamentarians in this stories worried about the fact that the Buki were "sold" for a pittance. The fact that, for example, rockets to the Bucks were delivered from Russia and cannot be re-exported, was left behind the scenes. Also behind the scenes, it remains that if the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation are being shot down by the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation, then this is the same - casus belli. What do you think? Under a foreign flag, speak? And I'm going to throw a dozen schemes on the go, as Russia can "take revenge" on Turkey, acting, for example, under the flag of Iraq. And very simple. But such excuses are not serious. As they say: everyone understood everything. I think it was then, in 2008, that Moscow began to develop plans for the "return of the Crimea." It’s just that the Kremlin’s inhabitants were finally convinced that Ukraine cannot be trusted in anything. Not at all to be trusted. In Ukraine, this "incident" did not cause any special emotions. Life is everyday.

For me personally, already then, in 2008, all kinds of “relations” with Ukraine ended. Finally and irrevocably. Because the delivery of Bukov to Georgia and the attack on the Russian Air Force is a very serious operation involving many dozens of officers. Here the "little gang" is not enough. And our Ukrainian "brothers" in the officer's shoulder straps all this superbly organized. And no one outraged or protested this. Everything was perfectly understood and accepted from the very beginning. Worked like a Swiss watch. People say freeze? Oh well. In general, these actions of "free Cossacks" put Ukraine under attack. According to international law, Russia could well begin in response to shoot down Ukrainian combat aircraft. Symmetrical. By the way, it was in the Crimea that there was some kind of abnormal concentration of Ukrainian units. Why, I ask? Including air defense units. So the return of the Crimea is not a “surprise” or treachery. This is a very serious thoughtful response, it is a retaliatory move. For the downed Russian aircraft from the Ukrainian side, too, no one repented or apologized. So it is necessary. It is in the order of things for a Euro-oriented power. No need to escalate, no need to spoil relations with the fraternal Ukrainian people, well, several Russian planes were shot down, well, the pilots were killed. It happens to everyone.

Then somehow happened in 2014, the massive fall of Ukrainian combat "Litaka." It's a shame. It's a shame and even painful, but there's nothing you can do. No need to pump up. Do not spoil the relationship between the fraternal peoples. Strangely, this is generally all: first, people declare their desire to build friendly, mutually beneficial relations with Russia, then they begin to defiantly shoot down her planes. Sly there is some kind of logic, frankly speaking - gray-brown-crimson logic. After the attack on the “drying”, all the Turks began to broadcast with one voice: “We want peace and friendship.” We also wanted peace and friendship, especially with Turkey. This is me without any mockery. We really wanted peace, friendship and cooperation with the Republic of Turkey. And this is not propaganda and not empty words. But the demonstrative shooting of the Russian pilot in the air and the hunt for the navigator on the ground put a fat point on this issue. It was not an accident or an “incident”, it was a well-planned operation. Again, dozens of officers of the Turkish army were involved in its organization, and it was carried out with the permission and under the direct control of the Turkish ruling elite. And to apologize for their deeds, these glorious guys refused flatly.

You see, there is a gap in the vision of the situation: the Turks believe that everything is OK and you can continue to be friends. We are beginning to be accused of unwillingness to solve the case in peace, at the negotiating table. And Russia is not ready to accept the execution of its pilot. And there is a kind of dead end. Serious political and logical deadlock. The Turks, having shot Peshkov, considered the question closed. And they are outraged by the negative attitude towards themselves in Russia. Such a fucking clash of cultures. So this, it seems to me - to the question of "peace" and "restraint", which we are actively imposing. Allegedly, this will give us plus a hundred points to the rating. You try, try - just say it. Alas, it does not give anything, rather takes away.

Think again: Turkey is absolutely calmly shooting down a nuclear mega-power combat aircraft. And silence. And everyone thinks that this is, in general, normal. It remains to understand what could be the basis for the start of hostilities? The landing of American Marines in St. Petersburg? Or also not, no need to escalate? See Peterhof, Hermitage and return home? Those who are agitating for “restraint” in this matter (and there are many of them) do not understand the main thing: the world has taken a step towards the nuclear abyss. You can give up one, two, three, but sooner or later you will have to answer. And here it turns out that you “acquired” so much that the answer can be only one - that is the biggest red button. So do not press it! Save the world from nuclear madness! Alas, as it has already become clear to all, Russia is not going to merge quietly. That is, if someone thinks that shooting down Russian planes is in the order of things, in Russia they can suddenly decide what to use once tactical nuclear weapons is nothing, nothing, no big deal ...

It is strange that everyone is analyzing the situation with the Crimea either “in centuries” or here and now, but no one connects the “return of Crimea to home” and the Russian planes shot down over Georgia. And the connection is direct, but seven years have passed, and all lovers of geopolitics have forgotten everything. And that case showed that in the event of war, Ukraine would shoot down Russian planes and block a fleet in the Crimea. Organizing conclusions were made. But seven years have passed, and no one conducts analogies. Incidentally, this was not “revenge”, but a clear, competent, thoughtful policy. The Black Sea Fleet is too serious for its activities to depend on the decisions of clowns from Kiev. Here's how - secure on the basis of. But who would remember how it all began ... People en masse are gullible and prone to PR: now, if Putin, 08 in August, stood in a beautiful position, called Yushchenko creeping and vowing to return the Crimea (but did not return results), it would be all remembered and told their children. And so ... uninteresting, non-spectacular. Here Poroshenko - well done! Good girl! He regularly promises to return the Crimea and makes a rating on it! And will promise! (The masses love professional storytellers.)

About the same we have with Turkey. Russia cannot but respond to the destruction of its aircraft, but this is not an immediate blow to the destruction. This is, in fact, a serious change in Russian foreign policy. It is no accident that Putin openly declared that he was waiting for an apology from the Turkish side; he really didn’t want these very political changes. But Erdogan was silent, like a statue. No, not that: Erdogan made a lot of loud, contradictory statements. But he did not apologize. Here the contradiction is very serious and inherently insoluble: the Turks insist that their actions are completely natural. And we hear explanations: Erdogan could not do otherwise for internal political reasons, and he cannot apologize for the same internal political reasons. What do we have to do with our Yars? Imagine that you are a very, very serious person, drive in the black and the biggest jeep and in the back seat you carry a Maxim machine gun with endless ammunition. And all of you are afraid and wary. But once you came out for a cigarette to the kiosk (Turkish, by the way, the word), and then the boy hits your face and takes the money. So, what is next? How to live with it?

Who, sorry, after this, our Yarsy are interesting? Ah, in a very special case, when the "evil Alienas" arrive and Barack Obama gives an order? If you shoot down Russian airplanes - this is normal, then where is that very “thin red line” that you cannot go by? We are offered to resolve the issue at the negotiating table, well, we decide, this becomes a precedent and tomorrow the Poles are knocking down the “drying” next to Kaliningrad and are waiting for negotiations. And get a "yadren-loaf." And all in shock. You see, this is not about a downed plane, this is about the realization of the possibility of attacking Russia and not taking responsibility for it. Everything is much more serious. If you have a loaded shotgun in your hands, but the punks in front of you consider you a coward and a loser, then you will have to amaze them a lot. It is not enough to have a gunshot weapon, "Radishes" should be convinced of your willingness to use it. Otherwise they will attack and ... it will turn out completely bad.

That is, as a result of such a “peacefulness” and “compliance,” a non-illusory nuclear crisis may arise. Namely, the Gopniks are convinced that you will not shoot all the same, they rush at you with all of them, shots are heard ... The Georgian army fired on the Russian peacekeepers, the Armed Forces of Ukraine conducted artillery fire on Russian territory, now the Turks have shot down the "drying". The trend, however. And each time we are offered to calm down and not to freak out. Apparently, Putin calmed down so much that he mentioned that we do not need nuclear weapons against terrorists. "I hope never will be required." So it goes. And before that, he practically called Erdogan an accomplice of terrorists, which seemed to hint. And translated into normal language, this means that it is not excluded. Right here and now and so that no one leaves “disappointed”. Yes, the Soviet Union possessed the most powerful army in the world and undertook the obligation: “not to use nuclear weapons first”. And he had many allies. But, alas, we are not the Soviet Union. To carry out the defense of modern Russia from NATO without nuclear weapons is an absolute utopia.

And I have a bad feeling that sooner or later I will have to “get it off the shelf.” Just because as a result of the policy of "openness, openness and democratization," we were no longer taken seriously. And then some Turkey hits the Russian plane, shoots the pilot and takes it on video. If we “swallow” this, after a couple of years Latvia and Finland will wipe our legs about us and then “invite to the negotiating table in order to settle the differences that have arisen”. But this is strange! The Soviet Union was a totalitarian communist monster that no one loved, and Russia, as it were, a bright market capitalist republic that everyone should love. However, something began to beat us instead. Again, ideology does not work.

By the way, the introduction of sanctions is also from this very series: “what do they do, these Russians?” I don’t want to say that you can solve all the problems with “fists”, but still with a revolver and a kind word you usually do more than just having a kind word. Someone who, as Capone, understood something in American political mechanics, and he was not at all and not so much in touch with the movers and his mouths. Here on the site a comrade from Israel referred to nuclear weapons as “Doomsday Guns”. It sounds really frightening. And Russia has a full arsenal of such weapons, and even Shoigu recently mentioned that more than 95% of the launches of nuclear strategic forces of the Russian Federation are in a state of constant readiness. And, as we all understand, Russia spends a lot of money. Just monstrous. "And we have sho with a goose?" - I would like to ask. Here, again, there are a lot of excellent articles on the Russian strategic nuclear forces network. Great articles, great weapons ... everything is very pathetic, but who is this weapon holding back? Turkey beat the Russian bomber in full confidence that the "otvetki" will not follow. After the attack on the nuclear superpower from the Turkish side, a statement was made that the attack on Turkey was an attack on NATO.

And after that, the statements (internal Russian) sounded that, in attacking Turkey, we are being substituted for NATO. Great, great: nuclear weapons, at least on our part, have ceased to be a deterrent. And how to live on? What if Russian planes continue to shoot down? (Not necessarily the Turks.) After which account of the aircraft can you hit back? Again and again: we fall into a kind of psychological trap - our opponents begin to think that the “shotgun” in our hands is a fake one. And so the red line is blurring more and more. And this is a very dangerous trend. In Hollywood films, this theme is gorgeous and repeatedly played: someone holds a shotgun in his hands shaking with fear, and the one he is aiming at is getting closer and closer, step by step. Whether you like it or not, you will have to shoot at a certain point. When vodka ends - the snack turns into just food. When the “Doomsday Weapon” ceases to be a deterrent — it simply turns into a weapon.

I agree that Russia, as a state capable of (along with the United States) completely burning the planet, bears an enormous responsibility. But for some reason no one condemned the attack of the Turkish Air Force on such a state. Everyone is sitting and waiting for something. The position of modern Russia is quite paradoxical and unique, this has not happened in history yet: it lost the most powerful army and allies in the world, but preserved and increased its nuclear potential. But at the suggestion of the United States, the Georgian eagles attack the armed forces of this country, here the Ukrainian “free Cossacks” shoot down its aircraft over Georgia, here the APU beat on Russian territory, so the Turks defiantly destroy Su-24 and its commander. That is, our nuclear potential does not stop anyone from anything. “Solid” sanctions were imposed against Russia, with the aim of collapsing its economy, even the field of sports (football and athletics) are used for political attacks. And the situation is not going to improve at all. The very "hybrid" war is already being waged against us. It will not be better, it is not necessary unnecessary illusions.

But at the same time, as if our nuclear potential is not seriously considered by anyone and its proactive use is not predicted. But after all, Russian officials have been talking about the possibility of such a development for a very long time and referring to the example of the USSR, which guaranteed the non-use of nuclear weapons first. Russia, which is not at all the USSR by geopolitical possibilities, refused to give such guarantees flatly. Yeltsin repeatedly stated this: “We are a nuclear power”. Even Yeltsin. But for some reason, our neighbors on the planet are not taken seriously. Under Putin, this was repeated several times, and with a very serious face. But no one believes this, everyone perceives it as a stupid public relations campaign for internal use (“to raise the rating of a tyrant”). So, for example: yes, the EU is superior to the Russian Federation in economic opportunities very, very significantly and the sanctions for Russia are very painful. But, for example, Merkel has no nuclear weapons. But she does not consider its use in the "Vaterlanda." It just leaves out the brackets and continues to build its policy as if there are no Russian warheads. “Doomsday Guns”, understand. That is, it proceeds from the idea that driving a nuclear superpower with economic methods is quite a safe option.

So, I'm afraid, it's like with the Crimea: Ukraine was warned two million times and three million times tried to agree. Did not work. Nobody just listened or heard us. The “annexation” of the Crimea was sudden only for absolutely deaf and blind Kiev politicians. Russia clearly promised that the base in the Crimea will not surrender under any circumstances. This situation reminds me of an ancient joke about the rising costs of vodka and an alcoholic father: “Does this mean that you will drink less now? “No, that means, now you will eat less!” Instead of American bases in Crimea, Russian Crimea appeared. Suddenly. But they constantly warned ... It is comfortable for the European Union to lead a confrontation in the economic sphere, well, everyone has their own strengths. But in a war, even if it is a “hybrid” one, each side will inevitably be forced to use its main weapon, regardless of the consequences.

You see, this variant is said in the spirit that “no one wants a nuclear war.” This is an absolutely correct idea, but for some reason this idea implies a completely incorrect conclusion that Russia’s initiative to use nuclear weapons in principle cannot be considered, and any attacks on the Russian state in the financial and economic sphere and any other non-nuclear field are completely safe. The logic by which Russia can be treated as, for example, Iran, is very, very risky (Russia, unlike Iran, and nuclear weapons and the means of delivery are ok). But here, as with the Crimea or Abkhazia: while it did not happen - no one believed in it and did not seriously consider when it happened - hysteria and cries for territorial integrity arose. Could Georgia save / restore it? Is complete. Could Ukraine save the Crimea? Easy. But they simply ignored all signals through diplomatic channels from the Russian side. Their friend - America - the richest, most developed and powerful country in the world. What kind of Russia are they? Diplomacy did not work in principle. Because that's exactly the consequences.

Next, I fear, it will be the same: I strongly advise you to watch the speech of Sergey Lavrov at the security conference in Munich in February 2015 of the year (again February!). You will not regret: he tried to explain something, but he was frankly rude and laughed at his speeches. He just did not listen and did not hear. Well, what kind of “new European security architecture” will arise after that? The trouble is that all we have left of the Soviet superpower is it - the most powerful nuclear weapon in the world (which, by the way, is a fact). Our economy is very modest, Eastern Europe today is looking into the mouth of the United States, but “no one wants a nuclear war.” I'm afraid there is very little dependent on the "wants" and "unwillingness." If our European neighbors, “not wanting a nuclear war,” respect Russian interests, this is one thing, if an absurdist conclusion is drawn from “unwillingness” that such a war is impossible and Russia’s hard pressure begins - this is quite another. For a nuclear "response", an attack on Russia should not be at all nuclear, no matter how paradoxical it may sound. Variations are possible. In general, you do not need to take important things out of the brackets.
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  1. +19
    22 December 2015 14: 49
    I think the gauges on the runway had to shoot ...
    Strange, but it seems to me that modern Russia in politics takes the side of a sucker in the company of cheaters, maybe it's time to take on the candelabra already?
    1. +10
      22 December 2015 14: 55
      I think the caliber on the runway had to shoot

      Saber sharpened wassat
      1. +3
        22 December 2015 14: 59
        Quote: nemec55
        I think the caliber on the runway had to shoot

        Saber sharpened wassat


        And harem pulled smile
        1. +10
          22 December 2015 15: 12
          Quote: nemec55
          I think the caliber on the runway had to shoot

          Saber sharpened wassat

          Quote: Denis Obukhov
          Quote: nemec55
          I think the caliber on the runway had to shoot

          Saber sharpened wassat


          And harem pulled smile

          Very wise comments, however, plus, and therefore in a trend. Why did I say the wrong thing? To warn in advance in order to avoid casualties and to plow the runway in order to avoid cases of the downing of Russian aircraft
          1. +55
            22 December 2015 16: 04
            Quote: Sinister
            I think the gauges on the runway had to shoot ...
            Strange, but it seems to me that modern Russia in politics takes the side of a sucker in the company of cheaters, maybe it's time to take on the candelabra already?

            In fact, if without expansion. That is the most adequate answer, could only suggest one thing - the destruction of our Turkish Air Force, the Turkish F-16 that attacked our plane. But this had to be done at that very moment.

            And runway gauges and nuclear bombing are already above the norm.
            P.E. the moment was missed. We did not catch their F-16 then. This is a minus, of course. Maintenance should be.

            Now, it remains to catch them on repeated aggression and be ready.
            1. +1
              22 December 2015 17: 24
              Quote: _Vladislav_
              We did not catch their F-16 then.

              Gambit?
            2. -16
              22 December 2015 17: 31
              Quote: _Vladislav_
              Not caught we their F-16 then. It's minus

              "Everyone imagines himself to be a strategist ......."
              1. +13
                22 December 2015 17: 58
                Quote: colonel
                "Everyone imagines himself to be a strategist ......."

                yes, and some even colonels winked )
                1. -11
                  22 December 2015 20: 02
                  Quote: _Vladislav_
                  and some even ...

                  Nah ..., I imagine myself, at least as a general, and even an army. But these are the details. Tell the world how to catch and what to catch
                  Quote: _Vladislav_
                  their f-16
                  ?
                  And before that, think about why the Su-24 was shot down?
                  1. +25
                    22 December 2015 21: 17
                    Quote: colonel
                    I imagine myself, at least, as a general

                    You flatter yourself winked )
                    Quote: colonel
                    And before that, think about why the Su-24 was shot down?

                    I thought for a long time, and a common point of view among the majority of the population of our country has long been established.

                    Quote: colonel
                    "Everyone imagines himself to be a strategist ......."

                    Returning to your last cue. I think this is not the best way to attract attention. Because the subtext of your post is quite understandable, like: I imagine myself as a strategist and I’m not rummaging and knowing anything, and you are such a cool smart kid who fully possesses information and knows exactly what had to be done. By the way, for some reason, you still haven’t voiced your CORRECT point of view.

                    And yet, so for reference.
                    Here is still a site on which everyone (within the framework of existing rules) has the right to publicly express his opinion, point of view. And such statements (like yours), expressing a slight banter and disregard for a different point of view, they do not have to make you heard. And it just causes a negative.
                    1. +3
                      23 December 2015 13: 02
                      Quote: _Vladislav_
                      I imagine myself as a strategist and I’m not rummaging anything, and you’re such a smart smart kid who fully possesses information and knows exactly what to do
                      You don’t understand a fig, I am out of age when they want to draw attention to themselves. If you reasonably disclosed your theses about how and what it was necessary to "catch" the Turks, I would be the first to take off my hat. But you have become like some regular "all-props", oh late, oh, they didn't shoot down, etc.
                      I quoted the quote from "The Knight ..." solely for the purpose of encouraging you to express not only slogans, but also arguments. However, he missed, everyone thinks to the best of his own, let's say, education. By the way, your answer to the suggestion to think
                      Quote: _Vladislav_
                      I thought for a long time, and a common point of view among the majority of the population of our country has long been established.

                      very similar to the arguments of the State Department "everyone knows this" (don't take it as a hint).
                      1. 0
                        23 December 2015 14: 06
                        Quote: colonel
                        You don’t understand a fig, I am out of age when they want to draw attention to themselves. If you reasonably disclosed your theses about how and what it was necessary to "catch" the Turks, I would be the first to take off my hat. But you have become like some regular "all-props", oh late, oh, they didn't shoot down, etc.
                        I quoted the quote from "The Knight ..." solely for the purpose of encouraging you to express not only slogans, but also arguments. However, he missed, everyone thinks to the best of his own, let's say, education. By the way, your answer to the suggestion to think


                        Catching the F-16 - should not be taken literally, although this is probably understandable.)

                        Good. Ready to listen to your point of view.
                        Tell me, what do you think should be done in this situation, and what should you refrain from? I ask without banter, directly, as if in spirit.
                        Your word is please.
                      2. +5
                        23 December 2015 17: 22
                        Thanks. The first thought was to bring down their airplane. I walked with her for a couple of days, then another thought appeared - to bring down their airplane, but without fail over Syria, otherwise all "partners" would play the card "Russian aggression against a NATO member." I am sure that it was for this that the adventure was started. Erdogan's oil business is an essential thing, but far from the main thing. From all this provocation a kilometer away are visible the donkey ears of Washington, whose AWACS were aiming the F-16 and who does not know from which side to bite Russia, so that he could eat the fish and ... get everything else. I remain with the thought that it is necessary to bring down their airplane, but how to do this not over Turkish territory, and even strictly recommend it - that is the question (it can help Cyprus in some way). Therefore, you need to wait for the right moment, so I do not agree with your opinion that the moment is lost. The fact that the commander-in-chief and subordinates did not dispute the fever. I'm not sure if I would have had the endurance. Recently, on the Internet, I read that the return of Crimea is, among other things, revenge for our planes shot down over Georgia. I'm not sure if that's exactly the case, but I liked the idea.
                      3. 0
                        24 December 2015 02: 12
                        In the east, a very flexible worldview, sometimes changing momentarily. We will wait. Until August 2016. Eat Israeli radish and potatoes from Europe.
                      4. -1
                        25 December 2015 11: 32
                        This forum is mainly occupied by "hurray-patriots" who are no different from Zhirik and Zyuganov - words, words, words, but thinking what will happen if words become deeds do not think.
                        // It was necessary to bring down their f-16
                        An example of another cheer patriot who does not even want to think with his pumpkin. We are being pushed into it, Putin is trying to avoid such moments, and he is such a super army general who has sniffed out everything and knows every centimeter in politics. Here is the same Zhirik and Zyuganich also constantly say that, yes, as it were, but they just say. For them, everything is so simple: waved his hand in that direction - everything is done, no internal problems with the bandits in the government. The main thing they can’t get rid of Chubais ...
            3. -13
              22 December 2015 17: 31
              Quote: _Vladislav_
              Not caught we their F-16 then. It's minus

              "Everyone imagines himself to be a strategist ......."
            4. +6
              22 December 2015 19: 08
              Quote: _Vladislav_
              moment was missed

              More precisely and you will not tell.
            5. +1
              22 December 2015 20: 24
              That's right, the C400 has been delivered for this. And let anyone try to attack the Russian Aerospace Forces. Not much will seem.
            6. +2
              22 December 2015 21: 27
              They don’t wave their fists after the fight!
              1. +38
                22 December 2015 23: 11
                Quote: Lev Leshchenko
                Quote: _Vladislav_
                moment was missed

                More precisely and you will not tell.


                Quote: GradusHuK
                They don’t wave their fists after the fight!


                Believe me, dear ones, that the moment has not been missed yet, and with fists after the fight yet, as they wave ...
                And this action sounds short-REVENGE.
                It costs nothing to calculate the name of the pilot and exponentially destroy it together with the family. And there is no need for snot. The Union spread rot on the attackers and therefore was a great Power. The base commander and the commander of the Air Force should suffer the same fate. Moreover, there are poisoning options (Khattab) and traffic accidents. This east! Here only force is recognized! And kindness is recognized for weakness. Only a terrible fear of inevitable punishment will exclude future attacks.
                And if the country is not ready to destroy the enemies, then there was no fig to drive their soldiers into these sands. Once you have entered, then burn all enemies with fire. .
                1. +10
                  22 December 2015 23: 34
                  Quote: Barkhan
                  .Only a terrible fear of inevitable punishment will exclude future attacks.

                  Applause! good
                  Quote: Barkhan
                  This is the east! Here only strength is recognized! And kindness is recognized for weakness

                  And in addition, an understanding of the subject! hi
                  I myself am amazed all the time: and when will this limit of patience of our Darkest come? After all, the author very correctly, in my opinion, remarked:
                  Again and again: we fall into a kind of psychological trap - our opponents begin to think that the “shotgun” in our hands is a fake character. And so the red line is blurring more and more
                2. 0
                  23 December 2015 11: 50
                  Very correctly said. East is a delicate matter, but everyone loves POWER.
                3. +1
                  24 December 2015 12: 12
                  Quote: Barkhan
                  It costs nothing to calculate the name of the pilot and exponentially destroy it with the family. And do not need snot. The Union spread rot on the attackers and therefore was a great Power.

                  Give an example of where and how the Union exponentially destroyed one's family.
                  1. +3
                    24 December 2015 18: 58
                    Punctuation marks, and specifically in this case, "dot", gives the written meaning. You probably did not notice two dots between "family" and "Union". So a dot means the end of a sentence.
                    And you ask, HOW? the employees of the Soviet embassy were released in Beirut ... And you know why the hostages were so instantly released, and the terrorists received some of the relatives in their premises ...

                    [http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YvI4WaAhqsE]]
                  2. +2
                    24 December 2015 19: 02
                    You can just search in accessible places ...
                4. 0
                  24 December 2015 14: 15
                  It is not death that is terrible, but the expectation of death. Remember .... "nothing lasts forever under the moon ..." Knowing what the GDP is based on, the partner will live in any case. Said, remembered, did. A couple of times they will understand that waiting LONG is much worse than getting it right away, but that they will get 100%, I think very few people will decide in the future. Strategy. Bad one, everything is on the person to keep
              2. MSL
                0
                15 March 2016 16: 09
                Quote: GradusHuK
                They don’t wave their fists after the fight!

                No one is waving. Tea is not the last fight.
            7. +6
              22 December 2015 23: 43
              Quote: _Vladislav_
              Get them to repeat aggression and be prepared.

              You know, Vladislav, the best "answer" would be to "execute" the Edorganov brothers within a week. A group of "unidentified persons" Everyone would have understood the "signal" correctly. Most likely, I will incur a ban on myself with this statement, but that would be the best way out. But you never know in history there have been objectionable presidents? Everyone understands what, who, how, but there is no evidence. And given the oil trade with the Islamic state, the information part could also be at its best. The Middle East would appreciate the move. Let the orientalists comment. Now it is too late to wave a saber, alas. So this is already an alternative history
              1. 0
                23 December 2015 10: 49
                I think that is not so easy !!!
              2. 0
                23 December 2015 11: 27
                It is better to "fulfill" the country completely, no matter how cynical it may sound. For instead of these other "Erdogan brothers" will come, it is not a fact that it is better.
                1. +1
                  23 December 2015 21: 45
                  Quote: Pomoryanin
                  "fulfill" the entire country

                  disagree categorically! What does the country have to do with it? And others will act with caution, but how will it fly?
              3. 0
                24 December 2015 02: 21
                I think that this is not Afghanistan. The mood within the country is different. However, Sudoplatov also did not solve the OUN problem.
            8. DPN
              +2
              23 December 2015 01: 06
              Quote: _Vladislav_
              P.E. the moment was missed. We did not catch their F-16 then.

              THIS is like in 1941 the generals were just chickened, they didn’t send their son without cover.
            9. +5
              23 December 2015 11: 24
              You are wrong here. Russia really did not want a conflict with Turkey, which is why such a proposal was voiced as "shelling from the ground." If Erdogan really wanted to settle the conflict, he simply had to grab the outstretched hand. Well, no - there is no trial. I believe that Turkey will soon be left only on postcards.
            10. +2
              23 December 2015 16: 38
              The Turks sought this, it was a provocation, just designed for the inappropriate use of force. Then all against the will would be forced to harness for the Turks.

              Here we must act as in a joke about two bison - young and old: quietly go down the mountain and three ... fuck the whole herd! bully
            11. +2
              23 December 2015 17: 54
              As for the calibers, this is true and as for the moment, it is also true, but we are driven into a corner. We are appointed to blame, any situation will be unambiguous against us. They bite Russia from all sides and look, and when they realize that they can RUN ONE. How to beat the most vile and brazen in the gateway. I doubt that Americans and geyropeytsy for the Turks will run to die
            12. 0
              24 December 2015 06: 55
              On the very first flight to catch on the territory of Syria and RVV to prepare from 2-4 F-16 with the support of air defense chaker churek.
              Americans, by the way, call it "Christmas Turkey"
              [Turkey (English) - Turkey, Turkey]
              ("Signed - there is no news from Putin about a Thanksgiving pardon?"). They have such a tradition. One mirikantsi turkey cannot be solemnly cut ...
            13. +1
              24 December 2015 08: 16
              Yes, do not need calibers. The most effective and not pleasant for Turkey is the active support of the Kurds for the supply of modern weapons, and training. Kurds are a big splinter in the ass of Turkey. The second in the case of Iraq's appeal to assist in the expulsion of Turkish troops
              to launch a missile bomb strike from the territory of Iraq at their places of deployment.
          2. +75
            22 December 2015 16: 27
            It’s a dangerous article, but it’s interesting, the hands itch, it’s the only general who said that you had to answer for the plane right away, without waiting for an apology from anyone, so answer so that the grass would piss for a couple of weeks. And now it’s some kind of swing with sanctions ... There is no sense for the topic of shot down drying ...
            1. The comment was deleted.
              1. The comment was deleted.
            2. +17
              22 December 2015 19: 25
              Quote: severniy
              you had to answer for the plane right away, without waiting for an apology from anyone,

              For Turkey, these consequences came as a surprise. It can be seen that we are used to the fact that our former leaders were puppets in the hands of the West and Washington. Russia showed its teeth, made it clear that it is impossible to do with it as they would like. The fact that Turkey did not even apologize is the height of cynicism, which forces Russia to act adequately.
              Author plus for the article!
              1. +15
                23 December 2015 00: 05
                Quote: alexey bukin
                Russia showed its teeth, made it clear that it is impossible to do with it as they would like.

                Maybe I missed something. This is when and where did Russia show its teeth? While the masters of the world (transnational business) do what they want with us. Having shot down planes (do not forget about the civilian side), they showed our insolvency and quarreled with partners. And we continue to pay them hundreds of billions of dollars annually ... And do not turn a blind eye to the obvious, it was not Erdogan who hit us, but NATO. The Turks simply played the role of an abscess ...

                Previously, the USSR was only hated from the outside, and even that wasn’t all. But everyone respected, or at least feared. And inside they knew how to teach the Motherland to love)))) Now for the capitalist RF, with clowns in the leadership serving big business, and few people will fit inside.

                Personally, I do not see any fundamental difference between the actions of the leadership of Ukraine and the Russian Federation. But if there for some reason we see who the authorities are working for, then we do not notice point blank ...
                Even performances with Serdyukov, Vasilyeva ... mockery with Plato, the president's explanation that speculation is not a criminal category (and what is being asked prevents making it criminal or at least taxing it) is perceived as "someone somewhere where we have sometimes does not want to live honestly ")))

                The whole country hunches down on the world bankers, gives up its resources, production and brains for a pittance, and the "patriots" are proud of how menacingly we shake our fists and tomatoes))))
                They do not even bother with their miserable excuses with a self-collapsed recorder)))) An ordinary Chinese auto-recorder would be more reliable)))) Yes, an ordinary household Gauss LED bulb compared to our recorder as an alien technique))))
                I don’t know why you are so happy here. This or such protection of the body, unwillingness to see the obvious, or your opinions are paid ...
                I would very much like to be proud of my country, or at least to love. But there is no reason for pride, nor for their country ... Yes, what can I say, even Mikhalkov's program !!!!!, where he dared to pronounce the word "Russian", was banned on TV.
                1. -1
                  23 December 2015 09: 29
                  Your suggestions? Or the usual "Everything has rotted, everything needs to be changed" from the Communist Party?
                  1. +12
                    23 December 2015 11: 16
                    Quote: Pushkar
                    Your suggestions? Or the usual "Everything has rotted, everything needs to be changed" from the Communist Party?

                    I myself have not rotted everything yet))))
                    It makes no sense to make suggestions here. The process of globalization and consolidation of business is not someone’s will, but a natural course of history. States as subjects of politics disappear, their place is taken by transnational business. Which has only short-term, on the scale of human civilization, plans. What all this will result in the long term is not yet clear. And in the short term, the situation will become even more contrasting.
                    As for our response (ie, the Russian Federation as a subject of politics) to the downed planes, in my opinion, responding with "tomatoes" is the stupidest possible thing. This is exactly what they wanted from us.
                    We could either "not attach" special importance to the death of the pilot, or give a military response. And this decision should have been made regardless of whether Erdogan apologized or not, but for purely pragmatic reasons. Yes, both of these decisions are difficult, but a subject of politics cannot have easy ways to defend his interests.
                    We thought, thought ... and decided to take offense, we won’t eat their tomatoes and scrape off the tan)))) Yes, now only the lazy will not kick us ...
                    In my opinion, if we “didn’t notice” the fact of aggression, it would look much worse ... Well, in the event of a response to Turkey’s military infrastructure and Erdogan personally, there’s nothing to say, the brain would immediately clear up. But the answer had to be calculated and prepared very well before coming to Syria ...
                    In my opinion, we have sunk ourselves many times more with "tomatoes" and excuses (and even so stupid as with the registrar) than Erdogan did by shooting down the plane. He was not afraid to hit a nuclear power, but why were we afraid and did not give a response? Why then got into a fight?
                    It turns out that the leadership of the Russian Federation, willingly or unwillingly, has once again played up to the overseas "partners", since they are precisely the deterioration of our economic ties that are seeking.
                    And with all this, we continue to give our "partners" our resources for a song. Well, what suggestions can there be?)))) Do not give!)))
                    If we are a subject, then we must be self-sufficient. And if the object, then nefig and show off what they ordered, then execute. We are now like a stupid slave who fulfills the norm set by the owner in the garden, but is bold, for which he is regularly flogged)))
                    Or explain to me how you can have such inflation with a positive trade balance? WELL HOW?))) This means only one thing, even the modest loot that we are paid for exported resources does not enter the country. Isn't that obvious?
                    And if these points are taken into account, the reaction of the Russian leadership to the downed plane is quite logical. But the dough is now not enough, but no one has canceled the norm)))) Here is a trickle going to Turkey and redirected ... And the dead pilot, a world power ... but to them all for good)))
                    1. +1
                      23 December 2015 13: 33
                      Yes, because our "top" does not represent the scale of the power that we possess. Did not see, does not know, did not participate. And they are very closely related to the west. Well, you understand .....
                2. 0
                  23 December 2015 13: 41
                  Quote: Hardy
                  Maybe I missed something. This is when and where did Russia show its teeth?

                  missed? rather diligently "did not notice". Russia has shown its teeth in stepping up efforts to eliminate militants in northern Syria and oil traffic.
                  1. +2
                    23 December 2015 22: 27
                    Quote: kashtak
                    Russia has shown its teeth by stepping up efforts to destroy militants in northern Syria and oil traffic.

                    So ISIS created it for us to get into it)))) We are like a stupid dog, biting the stick of which they beat us, and not the controlling hand.
                    Of course, they need to be destroyed, but to boast that they showed the teeth to the stick ... What are they doing against us, do they launch condoms?)))) In the old days, the Wehrmacht was exposed against us ...
                    And this is all a performance, money and resources either flowed from us or are flowing from us.
              2. -2
                23 December 2015 00: 11
                These are far from all the consequences for Farting. But when the resort season-o-on ...
            3. +18
              22 December 2015 19: 28
              The article is dangerous, but necessary, you can’t relax, even if you are successful in the battle .... Now our higher ranks need to carry the notes of Suvorov AV with them .... Going to bed, laying them under the pillow .... And that’s it angry still ... BLOOD FOR BLOOD !!!!!!
            4. 0
              24 December 2015 20: 43
              Quote: severniy
              the general said that it was necessary to answer for the plane immediately, without waiting for an apology from anyone, and so answer so that a couple of weeks would fall asleep.


              If I’m not mistaken, it was General Ivashov on the transfer from Solovyov. He said that in such a situation, the Soviet Union would send the ambassador (Turkey) with the entire diplomatic corps within 16 hours, recall his ambassador, and unfill the entire base from which F XNUMX rose. Moreover, in his opinion, the reaction of the world community would be pretty neat, if at all.
        2. The comment was deleted.
        3. +118
          22 December 2015 15: 59
          Thanks to the author for the article. Written, albeit emotionally, BUT competently and supported by facts, clear logical reasoning.
          Many, after the Turks carried out the operation with the Su-24 (and it was precisely the operation that was well prepared), they said that at the airfield Yo ... from which the F-16 took off ... Not realizing that at that very moment The Supreme Commander could well have U ... nuclear weapons in Turkey (more precisely, in its military bases). And this is not the ravings of a madman, just in this storm of information that pours on us every day from TV / Computer, many have lost their sense of reality, and the reality is that Turkey, represented by Erdogan, went Va-Bank (in fact, declaring war on the Russian Federation by shooting down its plane) in front of you after a crime (like a "talisman") status - ONLY A THRONE OF ME YOU WILL DEAL WITH EVERYTHING NATO...
          But just the same NATO pulled away from the Turks, just as America once pulled away from Georgia and Ukraine. It was a bluff, But it's worth saying that the bluff / bullying of Russia every time happens more bloody and demonstratively ... And it is quite possible that the second phase of the "giveaway game" was prepared ala -Today our ptsans at the bazaar of one of your Northern ones cut, we here consulted with the ptsans and came to an opinion that he didn’t understand what he did, and therefore we pass it on to you ... Type what you want with him is your BORDER conflict Turkey / Syria / Russia. If the Russian Federation began after this NATO / Baboon statement very harshly "Falling falcons of Erdogan" then the old hurdy-gurdy would start playing - Russia is the aggressor !; why are you doing this ?; Wild Russians !; We stand in solidarity with Turkey !; Turkey tse Europe !; Russians do not know how to negotiate ... Etc. etc...
          Here and now, the leadership of the Russian Federation voiced all claims against Turkey, everyone knows that the Russian Federation can strike from anywhere (Rostov on the Don, CF, SA of the Russian Federation) and not only nuclear weapons ... Yes, we can launch BUT missiles and they will not be returned back and therefore it is necessary to cut off seven times, as if we did not want to truly punish the perpetrators of what happened. BUT let's talk honestly without any momentary situations ...
          EVERYONE knows who needs to be hit, right? And this is not puppet: Ankara and not Kiev and not Tbilisi ...

          It:
          1) Washington
          2) London
          3) Warsaw
          4) Zurich (yes, Zurich, because there is Koscheev's death in an egg ... oh, in the banks of Switzerland the loot of the "Gray Cardinals" who hound the "Russian Bear" with such zeal is hidden).

          Then most problems will be solved, if not all -But neither the frog nor the Kaa will be alive ...(Kipling "The Jungle Book").

          P.S. Therefore, if you want to make as few mistakes as possible, DENY EMOTIONS in such geopolitical decisions and expect this from you all the more so. Russians / Russians believe in justice much more than the average citizen of the earth, because they press on this, knowing this weakness of ours, but at the same time such a strong trait (in order to make us make a mistake with it). Cold calculation and nothing more! The hypocrites have been playing against us for more than one hundred years, who have been stuffing their hands and we must not forget about this for a second ...

          We'll kick the guys, we'll kick it ... Everything has its time, but remember that while the "puppeteer" is alive, death / victory over the puppet does little to solve them (the puppets), the "puppeteer" has a whole chest ...
          1. +5
            22 December 2015 16: 23
            The same “hybrid" war is already being waged against us. It will not be better, no unnecessary illusions.

            but we should not hurry in the answer, and here it is correctly noticed:
            Let's hit guys, let's hit ... Everything has its time.
            1. +2
              22 December 2015 20: 42
              Quote: Now we are free
              Thanks to the author of the post!

              letters for another article! and that's it! applaud while standing!
          2. +4
            22 December 2015 19: 37
            A great addition to the article .... 100 pluses .... that is, the red line turns into black, the second when the next similar incident happens ... And he, I think is quite possible ... am
            1. -1
              22 December 2015 20: 42
              Quote: BLACK-SHARK-64
              A great addition to the article .... 100 pluses .... that is, the red line turns into black, the second when the next similar incident happens ... And he, I think is quite possible ... am

              Yes, there will be nothing .... and the next time, there will be!
              I agree with the author, the answer should be immediately, then it is, "change".
              And the answer with the choice of option and place in a few years is already aggression from the avenger or meanness, such as: I’m vindictive.
              In this case, let’s bomb ourselves against Romanians or Germans, because 74 years ago they attacked us, and now we will take revenge on them. Since it turns out.
          3. +1
            22 December 2015 19: 50
            Tel Aviv forgot to mention.
            1. +1
              22 December 2015 23: 40
              Quote: Rarog
              Tel Aviv forgot to mention.

              And I am so inclined to think that in Tel Aviv, OUR PEOPLE will sort it out on the spot with whom it is necessary .. wink
          4. +1
            22 December 2015 20: 33
            I agree. But when, oh, the bear will snap back.
          5. The comment was deleted.
          6. +22
            22 December 2015 21: 18
            Quote: Now we are free
            EVERYONE knows who needs to be hit, right?
            If aspen stakes to all ghouls, such as from the Rockefeller and Rothschild clan, can be hammered into their rotten hearts, perhaps the problem can be solved without nuclear weapons. As for spitting against Russia, then, as they say, - "Forgive one insult, and you will certainly inflict a lot of them" (Publius Sir). And the beginning of sanctions against Russia was also an insult. What did we answer then? Nothing, nothing significant. Say, they gave up apples, they cut off vital things for us, and we also refuse their apples ... Is that cool? Nobody threatened to cut off gas to Europe before winter, to close transit, to cut off the supply of the same engines for the American astronautics, launches to the ISS, anything that would really hurt the West. You have to earn dollars. Even with Turkey, the construction of the nuclear power plant can be restored as it turns out to be a "commercial project". The above, too. In the same States, if a company behaves against the country's policy, sells something to the enemy, it will face inevitable punishment, we have this "sacred" cause of selfish interests of monopolists, oligarchs. There is no need to rattle with nuclear weapons, you need to respect yourself, your country. If the DPRK plane had been shot down like that, the aggressor fighter had time to fly away, the blow would most likely have been struck at its airfield. Israel, any country that respects itself, would do the same. To show the whole world a flimsy "black box", in which all the microcircuits were broken, to make excuses ... They will not be respected and afraid for this, but Russia can and should force itself to be respected, without this, nuclear weapons will not help, and will they use it? those who have commercial interests, selfish interests, above national, question.
            1. +20
              22 December 2015 23: 24
              The first bell really was in Georgia 08.08.08
              When the Georgians vilely laid so many of our boys ... So, why the hell were the troops stopped near Tbilisi? Why was the Georgian army not completely disarmed? Why were the troops who attacked our soldiers not captured and not sentenced for 20 years?
              Why was the pro-Russian government not planted in occupied Georgia? ...
              In my opinion, no one has yet answered for the murder of Russian peacekeepers. And by the way, why is Saakashvili, who personally gave the order to kill ours, still alive?
          7. +2
            23 December 2015 02: 25
            good Ah, well done.
          8. 0
            23 December 2015 10: 51
            not just give a command for Poplar !!!
        4. +4
          23 December 2015 03: 38
          Emotionally, but great. Bravo to the author
      2. +10
        22 December 2015 15: 02
        Quote: nemec55
        I think the caliber on the runway had to shoot

        Saber sharpened wassat

        Itself without ensemble wassat Well, on the topic, how not to bend, but still they make us bloody maniacs and maybe we need to become them and figurate so that who didn’t hide, are we not to blame?
        1. -33
          22 December 2015 15: 31
          If you are going to pick up someone, then start definitely not from the Turks. What are the designer and the customer of the black box?
          1. +6
            22 December 2015 17: 11
            Quote: Tjeck
            If you are going to pick up someone, then start definitely not from the Turks. What are the designer and the customer of the black box?

            They say to you
            "Look how beautiful that bl. Fly is!
            And you in response -
            "Fly ??? FLY !!! Where is the fly swatter ??? !!!"
            Why deaf violin ??? But XP-N knows him!
            1. -23
              22 December 2015 18: 08
              In this case, you can be deaf, the main thing is that with brains. `` Urya '' the warriors are already tired of the order, if hormones are playing - you are welcome, now there are many places where you can go to volunteer.

              As for the topic of the Turks I will try to explain to you on the fingers. The time when it was possible to use force was gone in the first 2-3 days, now the Turks have already managed to create enough to set the response of the Russian Federation as treacherous aggression. There was a chance to reduce all their efforts to zero, but since the recorder did the presenters (crazy hands) everything was about ... Well, now the fools only have to do how to play war games on the forum. hi
              1. +2
                22 December 2015 19: 13
                Quote: Tjeck
                I will try to explain to you on the fingers

                You do not understand, oh do not understand !!!
                1. +10
                  22 December 2015 20: 53
                  Yeah got it
                  Quote: sssla
                  Quote: Tjeck
                  I will try to explain to you on the fingers

                  You do not understand, oh do not understand !!!

                  Yes, we all understood, we understood!
                  Not really downs and not vacation. We also do not need war games, just like you.
                  But turning the other cheek and showing "restraint and prudence" does not mean that by this we are pushing the "war" behind the closet.
                  Jews are 150% right with their instant response policy. And the "soft power" that Russian politicians preach is today perceived all over the world for open weakness, and therefore both Ukraine and the Balts are constantly wiping their dirty soles on Russia.
                  1. -6
                    22 December 2015 21: 36
                    Oh, how is everything simple and clear for you, even against whom today are you going to use (non-soft) force? laughing You never thought about the origins of the problems with the Baltic states and Ukraine - the reason is not to take away the soft behavior of Russia, it’s much commonplace: in 1990-1991 it was not necessary to declare the independence of the republics. Why wave your fists after a fight or do you seriously want a global war with NATO? If so, we will not find a common consensus, since for me it is simply not serious. Since you really want to shoot so much, why don't you just sign up for volunteers in the Donbass or go to the shooting range?

                    Now, according to Israel: The situation is different there, they simply can’t react harshly, they have been literally occupiers since 47 years old. It was necessary to ask for a piece of Germany as compensation and not Palestine. Yes, and everyone can punish the Papuans, but the trouble is that the Russian Federation’s enemies are far from Papuans.
                    1. 0
                      23 December 2015 01: 54
                      But under Stalin, they tried to create Jewish autonomy in the Far East, even allocated a territory, but only Jews from around the world did not go, they chose the promised land)))))
                  2. +11
                    23 December 2015 02: 39
                    I want to remind you of the thousands of our tourists who were in Turkey at that time and who would become hostages of the situation with our immediate reaction, for some reason no one here remembered this, this is the same factor! I agree on one thing - why our SU flew without cover, you can it was to calculate the situation in advance, before that there were also attempts at provocations from the Turks, this was supposedly a downed drone and violent protests on their part about allegedly violating the border by our aircraft, and the selfish interest of the Erdogan family that they did not know what we were going to attack them with corn ?! All this should be calculated and predicted in advance and naturally, as the proverb says - it’s better to translate, so there were mistakes on our part too! If we understand such things at the amateurish level - why those who depend on the adoption of such decisions don’t understand this ? In my opinion - the heads should fly, because someone is responsible for this operation, or were the miscalculations at the highest level ?!
              2. +1
                22 December 2015 19: 40
                there is no war on the forum ... only opinions on ............... hi
              3. +7
                23 December 2015 00: 02
                I didn’t understand your logic at all. What is the relationship between the "answer" and the recorder manufacturers?
                Listen, and why did everyone get to this recorder?
                Put you in a zinc box, pour silicone. First, rocket to throw, then from 6 km to the ground to bang. And then another 8 hours to iron the area around you with aviation, artillery and MLRS. Attention question. At what stage do your meat from bones begin to exfoliate?
                Not. I am certainly an amateur. But in fact? One bloke, calling himself an expert, raised a howl about the shame to the recorder manufacturers. And at once all wise men of couch picked up.
          2. 0
            22 December 2015 19: 24
            Well, they always start with the artist, and then the customer
          3. +1
            22 December 2015 19: 38
            maybe a stupid person ..... or just a European ... bully
      3. +52
        22 December 2015 15: 21
        Finally, they raised an important topic. My opinion is by Krut. Why? By the fact that everything is in essence. He drew attention to key points. I will highlight them thesis with which I agree by 251%.
        So do not press it! Let's save the world from nuclear madness! Alas, as it has already become clear to everyone, Russia is not going to merge quietly. That is, if someone thinks that shooting down Russian planes is in the order of things, in Russia they may suddenly decide that applying a single tactical nuclear weapon is a trifle, that's okay ...

        Who, sorry, is interested in our “Yars” after that? Ah, in a very special case, when the "evil Alien" arrive and Barack Obama gives an order?

        You see, it's not about a downed plane, the point here is to realize the possibility of attacking Russia and not bear responsibility for this. Everything is much more serious. If you have a loaded shotgun in your hands, but the punks in front of you considers you a coward and a loser, then you will have to amaze them a lot. It is not enough to have firearms in your hands; radishes should be convinced of your readiness to use them. Otherwise, they will attack and ... it will turn out very badly.

        Now on the account that Russia is not the USSR
        But, alas, we are not the Soviet Union. To carry out defense of modern Russia against NATO without nuclear weapons is an absolute utopia.

        I absolutely agree. The USSR was the equivalent of the United States. These were equal powers. When the USSR was gone, the USA turned into the only Superpower in the world (yes, this term has a very specific definition https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/SuperPower). Abroad in the USA, there are 860 bases, most of all in Germany (305), Japan (158) and South Korea.
        In Russia, barely two dozen typed. And here the thing smells like that soon everyone will not care about Russia's nuclear status.
        For a nuclear “response”, an attack on Russia should not be nuclear at all, no matter how paradoxical it may sound. Variations are possible.

        For example: high-power thermobaric bomb.
        PS
        with a revolver and a kind word usually do more than just with a kind word.

        Gold words. They never ceased to be relevant.
        hi
        1. +2
          22 December 2015 16: 25
          Quote: _Vladislav_
          Abroad in the USA, there are 860 bases, most of all in Germany (305), Japan (158) and South Korea.
          In Russia, barely two dozen typed.

          At the last press conference, Putin expressed the idea of ​​the optional base in Syria, perhaps there is some new tactics for creating parity without bases. I hope there is.
          1. +20
            22 December 2015 16: 35
            Quote: Uncle
            At the last press conference, Putin expressed the idea of ​​the optional base in Syria, perhaps there is some new tactics for creating parity without bases. I hope there is.

            You can use the long potential of our territory, of course.
            But at the expense of the uselessness of the base in Syria - I disagree.
            The powers need bases abroad (Air Force, Navy, Ground) - this is an instrument of influence, geopolitical and military. One "small" military base in Crimea and here you are - Crimea returned to Russia.

            About 1000 US military bases abroad allowed states to practically rule the world. Create various trade alliances. Introduce sanctions and force others. Manage the global economy.
            1. 0
              22 December 2015 17: 17
              Quote: _Vladislav_
              But at the expense of the uselessness of the base in Syria - I disagree.

              In the future, the base and there is nothing, the port will be enough.
              1. +3
                22 December 2015 23: 22
                Quote: Alexej
                In the future, the base and there is nothing, the port will be enough.

                The port is easy to destroy.
                It is already more difficult to destroy one military base.
                The totality of military bases - it’s already difficult to destroy
                The totality of aggregates (in simple terms) can no longer be destroyed without, of course, grave consequences.

                You say: No one will destroy the port of a nuclear power.
                A couple of months ago everyone thought so. But it turned out that it was possible to easily and unconditionally fill up a plane of a nuclear power (sleight of hand and no fraud).
        2. +2
          22 December 2015 19: 45
          Excellent Vladislav, it’s a shame that not everyone understood the essence of the article, it’s exactly that ignoring and putting pressure on Russia is very dangerous in the end ..... angry
      4. +3
        22 December 2015 16: 32
        I think the caliber on the runway had to shoot
        Saber sharpened

        There was a continuous battle for + and - who won would think the readers thought but won the mods banned the lad wassat
      5. -3
        22 December 2015 17: 21
        Quote: nemec55
        Saber sharpened

        The fact of the demonstrative sharpening of sabers by Prussian officers about the step of the French embassy just in front of Jena and Auerstedt is well known. Be careful with hints. Better straight. Make a video where the terrible Russian Ivan, after the third warning, kills the kitten, and everything ends with a shot of taking off caliber with the inscription "2 warning". Scroll against the background of the White House. Or the fortress wall in Istanbul, from the passing BOD.
      6. -4
        22 December 2015 17: 47
        Quote: nemec55
        Saber sharpened

        Here's how to put an article plus after these words at the beginning of the article:
        "The incident, as a rule, is of a random nature: the planes collided in a confined space, and someone's nerves broke down."
      7. +2
        22 December 2015 20: 08
        We are not vindictive ... revenge and forget ... am
      8. +11
        22 December 2015 21: 20
        Quote: nemec55
        I think the caliber on the runway had to shoot

        must
        1. 0
          23 December 2015 11: 06
          you think very true, Veta !!!
      9. +1
        23 December 2015 16: 34
        They will still shoot back, do not worry for that. You have to understand that Turkey is Turkey. Both the EU and the USA with their interests are sideways to the Turks.

        Erdogan, shooting down the Su-24, thought that his NATO colleagues would support him, but no. Everyone nodded, saying "we are with you", but no one will harness for the Turks, there are no fools to fight for Erdogan's interests and ambitions.

        And the fact that diplomats cannot convey to their opponents the simple idea that it is impossible to shoot down a Russian plane is the fault of the diplomats themselves. How many serious specialists do we have? On hearing only Lavrov. And he, no matter how wonderful he is, cannot replace the entire diplomatic corps with himself. On all "tank-hazardous" directions - Ukraine, Belarus, Central Asia, Transcaucasia - there should be specialists of the highest category, but what do we have? The ambassador to Ukraine is just an honorary pension, there over 25 years has passed ... was everything that was possible, along the way introducing hundreds of billions of dollars, and the Americans invested $ 5 billion, but where necessary. And we all know the result.
        Further, Transcaucasia - when there was a story with Permyakov in Armenia, neither the consul in Gyumri, nor the ambassador in Yerevan came out to people, did not reassure, the country's image was seriously damaged.

        Central Asia - how do any negative steps come from these republics, if there are so many labor migrants from Russia? Well this is a colossal resource, wisely using which, you can extract a lot of benefit, but no.

        Moral: nuclear and any other weapon is good, but diplomacy and economics also decide a lot. One does not replace the other; there are limiting factors.
        5% of the economy + 5% of diplomacy + 100% of the armed forces = 10% of influence.
        5% of the economy + 10% of diplomacy + 50% of the armed forces = 15% of influence.

        The proportion does not pretend to be accurate, but the meaning, I think, is clear.
    2. +43
      22 December 2015 14: 57
      Remember how our border territory with Ukraine in 2014 was fired upon by the Ukrainian Armed Forces, then our citizens died, and what we did in response was nothing, they forgave and forgot everything.
      1. +17
        22 December 2015 15: 07
        expressed concern, recall :)
      2. +2
        22 December 2015 15: 08
        And here it will be the same.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. +6
        22 December 2015 20: 32
        Remember how our border territory with Ukraine in 2014 was fired upon by the Ukrainian Armed Forces, then our citizens died, and what we did in response was nothing, they forgave and forgot everything.
        In Zelenopolye, near Ilovaisk both "forgiven" and "forgotten".
      5. 0
        23 December 2015 13: 24
        Stationary art positions, constantly scurrying trucks with ammunition and an instant collective response across the out-of-bounds territory to any sneeze. This is how it was. And not "forgiven" and "forgotten".
    3. +41
      22 December 2015 15: 11
      The article was published in Today, 14: 48
      Next koment first in Sinister Today, 14:49
      The question is, though, did he read something besides the headline?
      At the same time, they threw him 7 pluses, the question is for what?
      1. +13
        22 December 2015 15: 15
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        At the same time, they threw him 7 pluses, the question is for what?

        For "Caliber"! Today it is such a sacred word that opens the way to an explosive increase in rating. bully
        1. +6
          22 December 2015 15: 22
          Quote: Ami du peuple
          Quote: Alexander Romanov
          At the same time, they threw him 7 pluses, the question is for what?

          For "Caliber"! Today it is such a sacred word that opens the way to an explosive increase in rating. bully

          "Poplars" give much more to the rating, but I am for an adequate response to the aggressor wassat
        2. +5
          22 December 2015 15: 23
          Quote: Ami du peuple
          For "Caliber"! Today it is such a sacred word that opens the way to an explosive increase in rating.

          There is already an "Order of Witnesses for the launch of" Caliber ". laughing
          1. -2
            22 December 2015 17: 17
            In the article, it is repeated several times, “the plane was shot down”, “the plane was shot down”, this is a mantra, apparently. What is the new author said? Let's apply TNW, as in the forum, every second talked about it. Emotions, nothing more. Information in what? Apparently not for my intellect. Personally, I didn't get it. I repeat it by letter, I do not understand, Nikolai, Khariton, Ulyana, etc.
        3. 0
          22 December 2015 15: 36
          Quote: Ami du peuple
          For "Caliber"! Today it is such a sacred word that opens the way to an explosive increase in rating.

          Agree laughing

          So what. All according to Prokhorov. He once said that we are a fashionable nation.
          Well, to launch Caliber is also fashionable, it is creative))) As well as talking about it.
          1. 0
            22 December 2015 15: 42
            Fashionable and creative launch of Caliber ??? What is it like? Run Gauges efficiently.
      2. -2
        22 December 2015 15: 16
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        The article was published in Today, 14: 48
        Next koment first in Sinister Today, 14:49
        The question is, though, did he read something besides the headline?
        At the same time, they threw him 7 pluses, the question is for what?

        For the beauty of the face wassat
        There are also a lot of minuses ... wassat
        Really read before commenting
        And you, I watch how Don Quixote is struggling with mills? laughing
        1. +2
          22 December 2015 15: 22
          Quote: Sinister
          And you, I watch how Don Quixote is struggling with mills?

          Oh, yes, this is Lyoska Transyzr himself.
          Lesha, but you didn’t confuse the site, here the sexual minority is not honored. Would you go to yours.
          1. -4
            22 December 2015 15: 29
            Quote: Alexander Romanov
            Quote: Sinister
            And you, I watch how Don Quixote is struggling with mills?

            Oh, yes, this is Lyoska Transyzr himself.
            Lesha, but you didn’t confuse the site, here the sexual minority is not honored. Would you go to yours.

            No Sanya, the fact that you are here Moder still does not make the site blue wassat
            Will you start correcting my comments and projecting your fantasies again?
            1. 0
              22 December 2015 15: 45
              Quote: Sinister
              Will you start correcting my comments and projecting your fantasies again?

              Lesha, I’ll tell you so, then you won’t find yourself a guy, go to special sites.
              1. 0
                22 December 2015 16: 04
                Quote: Alexander Romanov
                Quote: Sinister
                Will you start correcting my comments and projecting your fantasies again?

                Lesha, I’ll tell you so, then you won’t find yourself a guy, go to special sites.

                We had a fight with this moderator because of a girl. And who is he treating here? wassat
      3. +8
        22 December 2015 15: 28
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        The article was published in Today, 14: 48
        Next koment first in Sinister Today, 14:49
        The question is, though, did he read something besides the headline?
        At the same time, they threw him 7 pluses, the question is for what?

        Well, right there all sorts of Baikonur and the same Lehi show an example of how you can quickly and easily farm plusegi to marshals. So the people are studying lol

        The article resembles a conversation with a drunk man. One and the same in a circle. If the author had heard about the fact that brevity is the sister of talent, it would turn out three times shorter.
      4. 0
        22 December 2015 15: 40
        Well, many read fluently, and I'm one of them. If the topic of the article is ordinary and there are a lot of letters, then I usually read only the introduction and the end. although the child prodigy or his majesty Caesar, for 1 minute ... laughing
        1. +12
          22 December 2015 15: 48
          Quote: Tjeck
          Well, many read fluently, and I'm one of them. If the topic of the article is ordinary and there are a lot of letters, then I usually read only the introduction and the end. although the child prodigy or his majesty Caesar, for 1 minute ..

          Well, it happens in different ways. There is an article, although a big one, but if the topic is topical, it is addictive, and you read it, read it, read it.
          But sometimes it doesn’t catch, well, not a read read. You run through such an article quickly.

          In this case, I liked the article, I just tried to explain many times what the author reflected today. Namely: Everyone smoothly does not care about our Yars with Topoli. By the fact that everyone smoothly understands that we are afraid of a global nuclear war. And then it turns out that you can shoot down some sort of plane.
          1. +15
            22 December 2015 18: 58
            Quote: _Vladislav_
            Everyone smoothly does not care about our Yars with Topoli. By the fact that everyone smoothly understands that we are afraid of a global nuclear war. And then it turns out that you can shoot down some sort of plane.

            Right. And so that everyone needs a demonstration "not smoothly". And not only the capabilities of the weapon, but also the determination to use it. Turkey is not suitable for demonstration only - the object is large. Burning it in a thermonuclear fire would be ... somewhat excessive and harmful for the ecology of southern Russia. But conventional weapons are troublesome and expensive. For the usual, one of the Baltic countries is quite suitable - it remains to wait for a sensible provocation from them and respond with lightning speed with a missile strike across the entire military infrastructure, without declaring war, occupation and other burdensome procedures. At the same time, all Eurorats will understand for themselves that there is no NATO collective defense for them.
            And for a nuclear test site, Qatar is the ideal target. Small, but obscene and distant enough. One "Blue" from the Indian Ocean is enough for her. And international Islamic terrorism will subside immediately ... And what oil prices await us as a bonus ooh ... fabulous. Just do not remind that there are still some people living there, humanism, etc.
            1. 0
              22 December 2015 20: 02
              Especially from the West, humanism does not extend to Russia at all .... we have not come face ... bully
            2. 0
              22 December 2015 20: 25
              The idea is interesting, in the sense of scaring, but the use of nuclear weapons is too much ...
          2. 0
            22 December 2015 19: 59
            and not one ... and then. as they say "geniuses" will go into "fashion" .... and WHAT ????? sit and write notes of protest ???? Then let's all write a letter to Obama together and ask you not to touch us ... Better to die in a nuclear fire ... am
          3. +3
            22 December 2015 20: 22
            Even in the first articles, I talked about the downed Su, and I repeat, the Russian Federation must be answered adequately, otherwise they will start to lay down on it, but revenge is a cold dish. It would be possible to get an answer right away, but it didn’t, now you need to wait, but if the answer is for Su from the Russian Federation will not (sanctions on tomatoes not that) then the question of raising the Russian Federation from its knees will remain a chant.
        2. 0
          22 December 2015 16: 07
          Quote: Tjeck
          Well, many read fluently, and I'm one of them. If the topic of the article is ordinary and there are a lot of letters, then I usually read only the introduction and the end. although the child prodigy or his majesty Caesar, for 1 minute ... laughing

          They also give out news with a rotten 2-3 days ago, sometimes you open the "news" and you realize that you've already read
      5. +1
        22 December 2015 16: 27
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        The question is, though, did he read something besides the headline?

        What for? For that, he was the first to leave "his mark", he left, so to speak.
        1. +2
          22 December 2015 17: 17
          Quote: Uncle
          What for? For that, he was the first to leave "his mark", he left, so to speak.

          Yes, there are many such marshals who want to remove the "innocence" of the article and be the first !!
          On the "critics" the hat is on fire !!!
      6. +4
        22 December 2015 18: 25
        Quote: Alexander Romanov
        The question is, though, did he read something besides the headline?


        Alexander, it's not a secret that many "commentators" read the title of the article and its summary, and on this basis they scribble their opuses and "hurray, let's score, smash, bomb". Well, what can you do - democracy, glasnost, tolerance, you know. Ignore the pros and cons and EVERYTHING WILL BE A BEAM.
      7. -1
        22 December 2015 19: 20
        Alexander, I understand that you are an old-timer here, you were disturbed by seven pluses for a beginner and not a single word on the topic. It's time to grow up. Greed and ambition are not brought to good.
        1. -1
          23 December 2015 05: 35
          Quote: nrex
          Greed and ambition are not brought to good.

          Deep into the drum for a novice, especially since the novice is already in the bath. Yes, and he is not quite a novice. But if you personally are in Caif, read such comments, read, no one bothers.
    4. +47
      22 December 2015 15: 13
      My opinion is that the destruction of the Su-24 was not necessary for Turkey and not even for Erdogan. This was necessary for Washington. But Turkey and Erdogan were simply used. It was a check. Reconnaissance in battle. It was important for Washington to know how Russia would behave, having lost a plane in Syria, moreover, not from air defense of militants, but from a "stab in the back" from NATO. Washington wanted to know what exactly Russia would do when it found itself in a conflict with one of the NATO countries.
      The British have the following saying: "Why bark yourself when there is a dog." It was on this principle that Erdogan was persuaded to strike a test blow. So that, if anything, the Russian uncle piled in response to the Turkish boy, and not to the English gentleman.
      I would be glad to make a mistake, but it seems to me that the Kremlin’s response to the Turkish “stab in the back” opened up wide opportunities for our “partners” from Washington to drive Russia into the “economic corner”.
      If Russia began to impose economic sanctions in response to military provocations, despite the fact that it is the economy of Russia that is the weakest point, then ... will this place be hit now?
      They say - where it is thin, there it breaks. And subtly in Russia it is in the economy. Even finer than the Soviet Union had at one time. Remember how the USA achieved a “victory” over the USSR? The United States could not defeat the USSR in direct military confrontation. And they were just afraid of the “Mexican draw”. As a result, they achieved their goal by cornering the Soviet economy, and of course, not without the help of the Soviet elite, which had degraded and betrayed their country
      1. dsi
        +4
        22 December 2015 15: 27
        despite the fact that Russia’s economy is the weakest point, it means ... will this place be beaten now?

        Not this, just GDP showed that this is not the weakest point. Therefore, Kerry rushed to us ...
      2. +3
        22 December 2015 15: 52
        Quote: Denis Obukhov
        My opinion is that the destruction of the Su-24 was not necessary for Turkey and not even for Erdogan. This was necessary for Washington. But Turkey and Erdogan were simply used.

        I completely admit. For the United States, this is beneficial. BUT.

        The Turks have one big IDEA. Which is called the Ottoman Empire (it’s only Turkish as communism), and the requiem for this dream does not give ordinary Turks day or night. So the hormones were taken from them by enzymes.
      3. +29
        22 December 2015 15: 58
        Quote: Denis Obukhov
        Remember how the USA achieved a “victory” over the USSR?

        There was no victory over the USSR! (Write the word in quotation marks, even without them.)
        The "top" of society and the state surrendered the USSR. This was the first "color" revolution carried out by the Americans, when they blindly used the supporters of "perestroika and glasnost". What was the cost of the "Interregional Deputy Group" alone from among the USSR People's Deputies? This group already in 1989 played the role of "Maidan" against our country!
        I well remember the nationalistic cries of activists from among the people's deputies of the RSFSR: "We will not feed the Central Asian republics!" , Tajikistan)! "
        And later it turned out that there are no markets for Russian goods, there is nowhere to create military bases to protect Russia at distant approaches. The country's industry has been destroyed, $ 1,5 trillion of capital has been exported abroad, cultural property has been looted, social achievements have been destroyed.
        About 15-20 years ago, I also thought that it was necessary to threaten various Switzerland with a nuclear club, where the capital stolen from the Soviet people is hiding. What naivety! Who will demand the forcible return of capital if the secret owners of the same capital are seated in the government?
        1. +11
          22 December 2015 16: 15
          Quote: Akella
          There was no victory over the USSR! (Write the word in quotation marks, even without them.)
          The "top" of society and the state surrendered the USSR.

          It can be called - even a pot. But this was a US victory over the USSR. There were no battles and battles, yes. But the final goal was achieved.

          Somehow in one of the programs they said very clearly:
          While the USSR was building rockets, it was defeated - with jeans, Coca-Cola and a bare ass on TV.
          1. -2
            22 December 2015 17: 28
            Quote: _Vladislav_
            Somehow in one of the programs they said very clearly:
            While the USSR was building rockets, it was defeated - with jeans, Coca-Cola and a bare ass on TV.

            But now we have a vaccine?
            1. +3
              22 December 2015 17: 55
              Not. Look at the muses -TV. There will be no conservative ideology, the same thing will happen again. Only much worse.
            2. +4
              22 December 2015 20: 17
              The vaccine will work when young people remember their traditions and culture, when normal education reappears, etc. We will see this when they remove From TV Dom2 ...
          2. +9
            22 December 2015 18: 43
            Quote: _Vladislav_
            Somehow in one of the programs they said very clearly:
            While the USSR was building rockets, it was defeated - with jeans, Coca-Cola and a bare ass on TV.


            Beautifully said and - in the bull's-eye.
            But now, when we are trying to sew jeans, pour out "phanta" and "baltika", and show "young talents of the stage" with half-naked children "prim" and "kings" on TV, we are surrounded along the entire perimeter of the borders with armor, airplanes, missiles, missile defense systems and armadas of ships under various flags. So you will think: - and which is better - the first or the second.
            1. +9
              22 December 2015 20: 24
              Exactly, there’s just wild fun on TV .... Roughly speaking, dusting the brains and beating up normal consciousness .... Plus, the frantic politicization of TV, one way (Ukraine) and the other (Syria) ... about internal problems ZERO ... And we have a million of them .... 1. Economics, 2. Education. 3. Medicine, etc. Officials do nothing, the oligarchs continue to plunder the bowels and buy yachts ... Governors steal in black ... People live worse day by day ... Or maybe this is a secret American weapon ????????? 7 am
              1. Boos
                0
                22 December 2015 20: 57
                And someone at the helm closes his eyes to this.
              2. 0
                23 December 2015 01: 19
                What are your plans, Mr. Fix ???
        2. +3
          22 December 2015 20: 14
          And these capitals are stored in Europe and America ..... The main enemies are our oligarchs, and then the Turks and various natives ... am
      4. 0
        22 December 2015 16: 33
        Quote: Denis Obukhov
        This was necessary for Washington. But Turkey and Erdogan were simply used. It was a check.

        It seems to me that this is more of an emotional reaction to the loss of oil revenues. After all, Endogar is not alone there, the environment is crushing, it was necessary to do at least something. Well, I did it to keep up.
      5. +6
        22 December 2015 17: 48
        You, in essence, said at the end of your comment, "who betrayed their country to the Soviet elite." Not so, everything was scary with the economy. It was possible to get out. The weakest point, indeed, is not the economy. If another traitor does not appear at the pinnacle of power ...
      6. +1
        22 December 2015 20: 09
        If you have brains, you can pump up weak muscles ... pick up sports equipment, make the right regimen and don’t be lazy .... And in our economy .... if you do nothing, then there will be nothing ... Russia is a self-sufficient country, only non-self-sufficient officials are at the helm .. (The President does not belong to this, because he is conducting the right international policy) hi
    5. dsi
      +2
      22 December 2015 15: 19
      Revenge is like an okroshka.
    6. Boos
      +6
      22 December 2015 15: 20
      I like the phrase from "Officers" ... - The commander must think! Think! And do not wave a saber!
    7. +19
      22 December 2015 15: 20
      Quote: Sinister
      I think the gauges on the runway had to shoot ...

      Alas, it will not work! They will not take it seriously, but they will perceive it as weakness .. It has long been said that all our troubles are caused by the fact that we are not afraid! AA therefore do not respect. They don’t want to honestly conduct business with us because we are no match for them and not deceiving a sucker is stupid. Russia acts as a sucker .. How ashamed it would sound! What have we done on all the attacks towards Russia over the past 20 years? Nothing! The author cited Crimea as an example, but a good example BUT did this change something? we again got half the way! Donbass rose, we certainly helped but by half measures .. there was still a desire to get in and eat a fish .. We would smash the entire military component of Ukraine and end it up. there is a technical possibility of this, and in the Rada and the SBU it would be quite possible to plant five calibers .. Yes, cruelly and so on, but I DON'T! We so want and that's it. Next time, the warheads will be nuclear .. that’s the whole story. Now all this rubbish with sanctions and other attacks towards our country has already been written before, it is connected with one, namely with the factor of ABSOLUTE CONFIDENCE that we will not use nuclear weapons under any circumstances! Therefore, they can do anything to achieve the goal ..
    8. 0
      22 December 2015 15: 25
      Quote: Sinister
      I think the gauges on the runway had to shoot ...

      somehow weak, however. what is really there to waste time on trifles - "Poplar" and around Ankara and Istanbul.
      1. +6
        22 December 2015 16: 13
        somehow weak, however. what is really there to waste time on trifles - "Poplar" and around Ankara and Istanbul.


        And what, excuse me, is the problem?
        Two Turkish aircraft are to be shot down on the downed Russian plane. Then it would never occur to anyone to shoot down our planes. That is why, for some reason, the Jews have the right to demolish everything on the side of the border from which the shell arrived, which did not even touch anyone. But Russia cannot. And if it does use the "north wind", then bashfully hides its eyes, they say, these are all volunteers.
        NATO would swallow it and not harness for Turkey. They do not need nuclear armageddets.
        The only thing that can explain such a "restraint" of the GDP is the desire to finish off the shitheads in Syria without interference from the Janissaries. But if they want to interfere with us, they won't stop.
        1. +2
          22 December 2015 18: 42
          Quote: alicante11
          And what, excuse me, is the problem?
          Two Turkish aircraft are to be shot down on the downed Russian plane. Then it would never occur to anyone to shoot down our planes. That is why, for some reason, the Jews have the right to demolish everything on the side of the border from which the shell arrived, which did not even touch anyone. But Russia cannot. And if it does use the "north wind", then bashfully hides its eyes, they say, these are all volunteers.

          I agree that NATO would not have pushed itself against the "answer" of Russia for the downed "Drying". but what would this "otvetka" Russia cost? how will you supply Russian forces in Syria? aviation through Iran and Iraq (I have already spoken about this) is costly and unsafe, ships through Gibraltar or the Suez Canal - for a long time. or do you propose to "cut through" the road through the Turkish straits by force? so the Turks' army does not seem to be amusing troops, and initially all this provocation with the Su-24 was designed for a tough response from Russia (as for me, "screamers" with speeches in style were already prepared in advanceRussia is a world aggressor and tyrant ...", additional sanctions, etc.).
          and your words are an example -
          Quote: alicante11
          The only thing that can explain such a "restraint" of the GDP is the desire to finish off the sloths in Syria without interference from the Janissaries

          apparently GDP and Co. found another way and put in place Erdogan, and leave the straits open ...
    9. +5
      22 December 2015 16: 13
      Where we do not have enough reason, they grab a pistol, but we need to do so to discourage not only the Turks, but also the rest of the non-humans from doing the same with the citizens of Russia. And this is a different approach and more effective. It's not over yet. Putin does not forgive such things and the answer will be "no statute of limitations".
      1. +2
        22 December 2015 17: 13
        Emotions are emotions, but these are the emotions of a provocateur, not a fool. Does the author seriously believe that human relations can be transferred to interstate ones? The Military Doctrine of the Russian Federation states that Russia will use nuclear weapons first in the event of a threat to the existence of the state. The author has not read or against such approaches? By the way, all the countries of Eastern Europe supplied weapons to Georgia. To use nuclear weapons against them? The Turks killed the pilot, and the Americans killed the adopted boy Dima. Let's hit them too. The author is delusional. And he raves "in a circle".
        Some people don't like Putin at VO - he has "sucked". Well, here's a presidential candidate for you. He gets up from the sofa, but as a nuclear saber wave, all the bad boys will roll head over heels.
        Bullshit, with no arguments and at least basic knowledge in political science and military art.
      2. Boos
        0
        22 December 2015 19: 39
        Let's see, I want to believe.
      3. +5
        22 December 2015 21: 14
        Quote: alexneg
        Where we do not have enough reason, they grab a pistol, but we need to do so to discourage not only the Turks, but also the rest of the non-humans from doing the same with the citizens of Russia. And this is a different approach and more effective. It's not over yet. Putin does not forgive such things and the answer will be "no statute of limitations".

        Yes brost! How many provocations on the part of Ukraine and other ushlepok was. And who didn’t forgive?
        The situation is like in the cartoon about the cat Leopold: We meow, guys, let's live, be peaceful.
        That's just no doctor will come and bring a beast.
        1. 0
          22 December 2015 21: 32
          Dill still pay - not yet evening. It is just necessary to behave in such a way that the Ukrainian people hate the current junta and are already moving towards this. Stock up on popcorn ukro-comedy has already begun.
  2. +7
    22 December 2015 14: 52
    One unpleasant question arises: "what next?" How to live with all this?

    Very simple time heals. We do not need an extra enemy (in the person of the people of Turkey) And Erdogan should preferably go forward with his feet, which the President said in a soft form.
    1. +3
      22 December 2015 14: 54
      This will not go anywhere.
    2. +4
      22 December 2015 15: 06
      How to live? Live willingly to respond to any provocation. And do not tear your hair for not taking revenge for the downed plane - the story has not yet ended and the case will still be presented. And then we recall everything. Not war, but a pendell will be sensitive.
  3. +2
    22 December 2015 14: 54
    Well, now US planes have left that air base from where the plane that shot down ours. It would be possible to work on it. But everything was hushed up and calmed down, which is a pity.
    1. +5
      22 December 2015 15: 15
      Quote: keel 31
      Well, now US planes left that airbase,

      Weren't these planes that left the base worked for our Drying?
      1. 0
        22 December 2015 16: 11
        Quote: Sirocco
        Quote: keel 31
        Well, now US planes left that airbase,

        Weren't these planes that left the base worked for our Drying?

        Of course there are such thoughts. But they swear and swear that their planes were in hangars. They do not help Turkish air defense.
  4. +7
    22 December 2015 14: 56
    "I think it was then, in 2008, that Moscow began to develop plans to" return Crimea. "

    I do not think so.
    I still do not understand what the author wants? Hit nuclear weapons in Turkey? fool
    1. +2
      22 December 2015 15: 08
      a lot of bukovs, a lot of money, but I also didn’t catch the point
    2. +7
      22 December 2015 15: 23
      Quote: Vladimirets
      I still do not understand what the author wants? Hit nuclear weapons in Turkey?

      Probably this scenario was laid down, the developers of this provocation, just not vigorous, but still waiting for an answer.
      After such an answer, we would have to forget about Syria and disentangle the conflict on our borders, I think the Ukrainian troops pulled to the Russian border in time, would play a role for which they were pulled up.
      Well, our commander in chief did not fall for this LAZA. I think now, soberly, everything is done right.
      Well, for Turkey, The expectation of death is worse than death itself.
      GDP is the master of silent blow.
      Let itch from every rustle.
      1. +3
        22 December 2015 15: 31
        Quote: Sirocco
        Probably this scenario was laid down, the developers of this provocation, just not vigorous, but still waiting for an answer.

        They waited for something, but the massacre with conventional weapons was completely useless to us.
        Quote: Sirocco
        The expectation of death is worse than death itself.
        GDP is the master of silent blow.
        Let itch from every rustle.

        Revenge is a cold dish, and the East, as always, was waiting for hot horseback action. smile
    3. +3
      22 December 2015 16: 56
      Quote: Vladimirets
      Hit nuclear weapons in Turkey


      On the contrary, how do you analyze the material?
      If you take it simplistically, then we are forced by small provocations of a non-nuclear nature to deliver a tactical strike. Our kindness is perceived as weakness and impudent.
      Germany, France, the United States are stronger than us economically - and they kick us economically (sanctions).
      NATO is militarily stronger - they kick us in this context (they shoot down planes).
      And we are stronger than them ONLY in the nuclear aspect, but we cannot kick them in this projection of our strength for "humanistic reasons" - we are not animals.
      And they are animals.

      They are exceptional, and therefore they can do anything. Eliminating the terrorists responsible for the death of the Olympic team around the world is a series of delicate operations expected from Israel and has caused a standing ovation in the "civilized world." And they expect from Russia a blow with a club in return. The tank is expensive.
      It remains only nuclear. They count on this.

      My mind is frankly not enough to rise above the situation and come up with an alternative graceful response to the answer.
      Disrupt the work of NATO radars so that the Turks, shooting down the next "our" plane, actually shot down a German one? Unrealistic.
      Perhaps Peshmerga chop off part of Turkey under its Kurdistan?
      Who else sees the prospects?
      Perhaps the IRGC will sink the Saudi tanker?
      1. 0
        22 December 2015 18: 19
        Ok let me misunderstand but
        Quote: Kostoprav
        Disrupt the work of NATO radars so that the Turks, shooting down the next "our" plane, actually shot down a German one? Unrealistic.
        Perhaps Peshmerga chop off part of Turkey under its Kurdistan?
        Who else sees the prospects?
        Perhaps the IRGC will sink the Saudi tanker?

        so with my first question
        Quote: Vladimirets
        what the author wants

        request
  5. +5
    22 December 2015 14: 58
    I think: what would Stalin, Brezhnev, Andropov do if the Turks shot down a Soviet military plane?
    1. +1
      22 December 2015 15: 18
      And in what year in the Far East did the states miss and strike the Soviet airfield?
    2. +5
      22 December 2015 16: 03
      No doubt, the answer would be just awesome!
      After all, these "state leaders" and their entourage did not have accounts in offshores, the children studied and lived in the USSR, there were mansions, but in the Crimea and in Pitsunda! They had nothing to lose and they were not afraid of anyone or anything!
      Now the situation is completely different ...
    3. +2
      22 December 2015 18: 07
      Stalin, agreed. Yielded something to the UN. And not only. Answered in Korea. I agreed with China, in terms of readiness to throw over the strait of a dozen of two million Chinese with our weapons. Weapons were enough, yes, here are the people at the end of the Second World War, alas. It seems to me that the United States and nuclear weapons were not used, precisely because of this threat. In general, Stalin did not wave his saber.
  6. +31
    22 December 2015 15: 01
    The train left. Turkey needed a military response to the act of aggression. The weakness of the current government does not give rise to respect in the world. Since we can’t give a decent answer to spitting in the back of a bankrupt Ukraine, we continue to flirt with the fascist state, for example, on gas discounts. That's where we are before Turkey, its army and economy will be several times stronger than the Ukrainian one. Illness within the state does not give rise to a healthy attitude from the outside. We don’t put thieves at the state treasury, we shield the prosecutors from the symptoms of a dangerous disease.
    1. +8
      22 December 2015 15: 49
      "... We don't put thieves in the state treasury, we shield prosecutors, symptoms of a dangerous disease ..."
      This is not a disease anymore, it is a "cancer tumor METOSTASIS" of the RUSSIAN country!
      The worst thing is that today there is no "surgical team" capable of removing this muck!
    2. +2
      22 December 2015 16: 39
      Quote: NKVD
      Since we can’t give a decent answer to spitting in the back of Ukraine’s bankruptcy, we continue to flirt with the fascist state

      In Ukraine, not all fascists, the people there speak Russian, treat their power the same way we do, and they did not shoot down the plane, the Boeing does not count. So it's not a true comparison.
  7. -1
    22 December 2015 15: 03
    I know what any Ukrainian will say: “Well, the lads went to Georgia, to shoot the litaki of trochi. They returned with money and fame, because - free Cossacks! ”

    I am the author, do not know anything about the further fate of the mentioned Ukrainian pvoshniks? Various rumors circulate, including about their, suddenly manifested, increased suicidal tendencies. "Conscience, probably, does not give rest" - this is how knowledgeable comrades explain a similar incident.
    1. +2
      22 December 2015 15: 30
      Quote: Ami du peuple
      I am the author does not know anything about the future fate of the mentioned Ukrainian pvoshnikov?

      Oh, it turned out funny .. This sentence should be read like this: "I think the author knows nothing about the further fate of the mentioned Ukrainian pvoshniks?"
      Sorry, the failure of the Internet did not allow you to edit the post sad
      1. +2
        22 December 2015 17: 30
        Andrei, do you even sleep sometimes? for 9 days 141 comment.
  8. +4
    22 December 2015 15: 04
    It remains to understand what can serve as the basis for the outbreak of hostilities? The landing of the American Marines in St. Petersburg?
    Better vice versa.
  9. +12
    22 December 2015 15: 06
    Cool written. Taking off my hat. Just what I think!
  10. +6
    22 December 2015 15: 06
    Ukrainian parliamentarians in this story were thrilled by the fact that Buki was "sold" for next to nothing. The fact that, for example, missiles to Bukami were delivered from Russia and it is impossible to re-export them, remained behind the scenes.

    EMNIP, Ukrainians were indignant not only with the amount of the transaction. They were also indignant at the fact that the air defense systems delivered to Georgia were removed from combat duty - there were no serviceable complexes from storage.
  11. +10
    22 December 2015 15: 07
    In Georgia, in addition to the Ukrainian calculations of "Buks", the work of Ukrainian intelligence specialists was also noted, one of them interrogated our soldier taken prisoner, this episode was in the film by A. Mamontov about that war
    1. +2
      22 December 2015 15: 20
      And the Jews also helped
      1. 0
        22 December 2015 18: 14
        whatWell, where without them. If there is no water in the tap .... fool
    2. +14
      22 December 2015 15: 58
      It all started much earlier. Ukrainian military experts fought against us in Chechnya, on our territory, and no consequences.
      And for the fact that the Hero of Russia, Colonel Yury Dmitrievich Budanov announced this publicly, he suffered. At first, the criminal case was falsified, and then the attempt, which took the son faithful to her from the country ...
      1. +2
        22 December 2015 20: 48
        Eternal memory to the Hero .... But who was responsible for the death of the Hero ???? angry
  12. +6
    22 December 2015 15: 08
    In ancient times there was a joke (though black): "The Soviet people, dying, must know that they will be avenged." It would be nice for Americans, Germans and others to understand this joke.
  13. +23
    22 December 2015 15: 11
    sanctions extended .... apologize for the downed drying, are not going to .... the Arabs are building up an alliance to allegedly resolve the Syrian issue .... oil has gone to minus .... the ruble has stepped over, already all psychological thresholds .... not is it time for statesmen to raise the question with a sharp edge .... so to speak, to remind you that all these shortcomings have already lifted up, and the country is morally ready to solve the issue, including with the use of ..... cold shower, so to speak ... .
    1. -1
      22 December 2015 20: 50
      Isn't it better to die in battle ??? than to live as a slave ??? angry
  14. The comment was deleted.
  15. 0
    22 December 2015 15: 13
    Erdogan will be thrown out of politics, the Turks will apologize retroactively and everything will start from scratch.
    1. 0
      22 December 2015 20: 51
      but Turkish morality will never change ...
  16. +3
    22 December 2015 15: 14
    An article that is called: thoughts out loud ... the fact that politics is a dirty business, and the world is "not invented by us" is clear to most readers. The question "to bomb or not to bomb" remains open ... What are we going to do ??? No.
  17. 0
    22 December 2015 15: 14
    Quote: Million
    I think: what would Stalin, Brezhnev, Andropov do if the Turks shot down a Soviet military plane?


    I think the next TSSR and the Stalin Strait would appear on the map.)))
  18. 0
    22 December 2015 15: 15
    Revenge is a cold dish.
  19. -4
    22 December 2015 15: 17
    I do not understand, the author suggests starting the third world war !? I sympathize with the relatives of the dead pilot and paratrooper, but the death of these two heroes should not lead to the death of thousands or millions of other people! There is a saying: Better is a bad world than a good war!
    Yes, let them think about us that they want, that we are cowards, that we cannot stand up for ourselves, and so on, but history shows where ALL those who thought turned out to be!
    The time will come and everyone will answer as they deserve!
    1. +21
      22 December 2015 15: 30
      Quote: mpzss
      Yes, let them think about us that they want, that we are cowards, that we cannot stand up for ourselves, and so on, but history shows where ALL those who thought turned out to be!
      The time will come and everyone will answer as they deserve!


      "If a European is punched in the face, he will cry and run away, if an American is, he will cry and drag you to court. If a Russian is punched in the face, then your problems are just beginning."
    2. +14
      22 December 2015 16: 06
      Quote: mpzss
      Yes, let them think about us that they want, that we are cowards, that we cannot stand up for ourselves, and so on, but history shows where ALL those who thought turned out to be!
      The time will come and everyone will answer as they deserve!

      Why do we always think of our opponents as foolish people? Type make the same mistake and DO NOT LEARN TO ANYTHING! Well, the events of the past 70 years have just proved the opposite, bastards are learning and how! Today, now perhaps the last chance to revive our country they will not be given to us anymore! no need to look back at our great past and always say we were reborn so it will continue to be .. NO! Errors were taken into account by the enemy and there will be no connivance on their part! Everyone forgets how the world has changed, technology, much more, if previously we always climbed out of the abyss due to our enormous size due to the strength of the people, now these advantages are reduced to zero, what is the fact that we have a huge country? But nothing. What is the situation with the people if the word Russian is immediately associated with nationalism. How will we be reborn again? Who will let us do this? Our enemy has the technical capabilities to totally prevent this. How will we be reborn? I look at the current state of affairs and understand that in no way .. They will not repeat past mistakes. Therefore, we must act until we are finally clamped, and while there are means and tools. tomorrow it will be too late! What nah 3 world if we iron Turkey nuclear weapons? On the contrary, world peace will be clearly closer than now, the enemy is confident in his impunity and has crossed all borders. Unlike us, they have something to lose ..
      rs: Although what am I talking about .. Here the strategists on the site assured that nuclear weapons could not be used. even if NATO begins to destroy our warships and other nuclear submarines, such as we must respond with ordinary means ..
    3. +5
      22 December 2015 19: 55
      but there would be no war! There was simply not even half of Turkey! And that’s it!
  20. +3
    22 December 2015 15: 17
    I did not understand, but what did the author want to say?
    What did you have to bang?
    So too early to plow. We have drawn conclusions and warnings.
    And just do not allow repetition. And you can hit Turkey not only with nuclear weapons.
    Can they chop off gas or support Syrian troops from the air
    at the stage of entering the Syrian-Turkish border.
    The options are the sea.
    I clearly understand that we are preparing for a big war.
    For this we need funds and time, which they are trying to deprive us of.
    We then clearly understand who needs to be beaten with a vigorous loaf first of all in any situation.
    We understand, yes? And they clearly understand this. That's why they are trying to drag us into the war, but the small one,
    where the use of nuclear weapons is excessive, but where we waste a lot of resources.
    1. +2
      23 December 2015 00: 22
      Quote: Zomanus
      And you can hit Turkey not only with nuclear weapons.

      Interestingly, what? Gauges .. well, how many of them are needed and how many do we have, by the fleet? Remain without it, the Turks have three times more, aviation? Look how many strike aircraft we have available .. I hope you don’t consider tanks and infantry? And what?
      Quote: Zomanus
      Can they chop off the gas
      as an option, but the Khokhlops cut off gas to Crimea and the light helped? What makes you think that this will work? They will immediately be helped, especially if there is someone.

      Quote: Zomanus
      or support the Syrian troops from the air
      at the stage of entering the Syrian-Turkish border.

      How to do it? What forces and means will we do? Take a look at the region a little, see how many countries there are friendly to us and how many will help the Turks in the event of a mess ..
      Quote: Zomanus
      We then clearly understand who needs to be beaten with a vigorous loaf first of all in any situation.

      Interesting for whom? In the USA come on! Here, for sure, the arctic fox will come because it is the only option when the Armageddean begins, the United States will tolerate everything else! Nobody will risk their asses for the Turks. but if they are in the USA then they can answer .. So it is safe to take out the NF Turks, we don’t have other resources for this. Everything else is fraught with terrible losses both in people and in expensive equipment, and after this war we’ll roll back for years for 20-30 and not the fact that they won’t try us in the tooth elsewhere, but since the resources are bye-bye, in order not to be defeated here you have to get nuclear weapons .. So it may not wait for the country to bleed and money will end together to many others, but is it preventive to discourage an enemy? Even with some risk?
      Quote: Zomanus
      . That's why they are trying to drag us into the war, but the small one,
      where the use of nuclear weapons is excessive, but where we waste a lot of resources.

      That's what we say that since resources are a pity (both material and human), maybe nuclear weapons are not so redundant, but just right, to stop these insinuations until everything has gone too far? I don’t want our soldiers to die there, not the pilots, not the sailors, and even more so the landing or infantry, we don’t need anything in Turkey! It is required that they just do not interfere .. Accordingly, nuclear weapons are an ideal tool for this! 100 missiles of 10-50 kilotons and all do not have a military machine in Turkey .. ISIS fighters and other trash breaks into Qatar, SA, Kuwait .. And diplomats from all over the world lined up at the Russian Foreign Ministry in Moscow with assurances of friendship and mutually beneficial partnership ..
      1. +2
        23 December 2015 03: 13
        those. until we bomb with a vigorous bomb, the states the Americans sit and rock the boat, because they have something to lose. In this situation, we could bomb all those unwanted - Ukraine, the Baltic states, Georgia, Arabia, Qatar, Israel, Japan, Poland, Albania, England, who else we have on the list.
        and the states are sitting and looking at it.
        it's funny.
        1. +1
          23 December 2015 11: 41
          We don’t distort everyone, for sure, for Japan maybe, but for all the others they’ve vryatli .. The more important is the fact that they took and applied, and this factor will have to be taken into account, while other states do not persuade push, and the instinct of self-preservation is the most important. All that this hour is based on the sworn assurance that they WILL NOT APPLY, and voices are heard that they doubt that Russia has nuclear weapons at all, such as a backward country, they don’t have anything .. But then they did not become a country with a second military potential in NATO .. ​​Nezhdanchik . once again I’m saying just one example with which we will confirm our readiness to use nuclear weapons and everything will change dramatically, it’s impossible to tease a bear to many, and it will not save anything, the world has gradually forgotten what nuclear weapons are and is not afraid of it, it’s like crazy does not understand the threat from armed a man, well, he doesn’t see his near death from a man with a gun .. So it will fly there once and everyone will understand everything.
  21. +1
    22 December 2015 15: 18
    The reality is that until Russia uses its nuclear weapons, then all these NATO mongrels will cling to us. But who needs a global apocalypse? Therefore, our government uses diplomatic and economic techniques and methods.
  22. +6
    22 December 2015 15: 18
    At the very least, it was necessary to close the skies of Syria for the Turkish aviation "until all the circumstances are clarified." And shoot down, if that. They showed weakness, but it's a pity. In the East, strength is respected, not loud words.
    1. 0
      22 December 2015 16: 00
      Does Turkish aviation fly into Syria?
    2. +1
      23 December 2015 09: 37
      I agree. I support. hi I’m constantly thinking about these concessions. And judging by the vote of such an overwhelming majority.
      But all the same, an immediate answer would not work ... I’ll explain. It’s somehow forgotten in the discussion about the thousands of our tourists and specialists who were at that time in Turkey. The massacre could have happened.
      And it is also forgotten that the Turks are already waging a sabotage war with us ("gray wolves" in the Crimea). So, it is necessary to answer, but according to the mind and with gusto ... To the most painful point.
  23. -1
    22 December 2015 15: 21
    The "calibers" were supposed to convince the Turks that rudeness was fraught, and there was no need to joke with matches. Not convinced. Let them now wait for an answer, dying with fear. I liked the author's idea that the Crimean operation was conceived after the hooliganism in Georgia. 7 years have passed. And bam. Personally, I like Constantinople. Zhdems laughing
    1. -2
      22 December 2015 20: 42
      100 ++++++++++++++++
  24. +1
    22 December 2015 15: 24
    Quote: Zomanus
    I did not understand, but what did the author want to say?
    What did you have to bang?

    to bang is an extreme measure .... but to remind that we are not only a nuclear power (although this is more important), but we can also stick our nose with conventional weapons .... well, we were not impressed by the "caliber" bastard .... there are moral conversations - a little ..... tankers only understand armor-piercing .....
  25. 0
    22 December 2015 15: 25
    Beat in the face must immediately, without rassusanivaniya! The one who hits first always comes out the winner from the fight!
    1. 0
      22 December 2015 20: 41
      100 +++++++++++++++++++
    2. +2
      23 December 2015 03: 16
      a lot of examples, when the first to strike, as a result, grabbed to the fullest
  26. +1
    22 December 2015 15: 27
    GOOD ARTICLE. OF COURSE IT IS UNDERSTANDABLE HOW EVERYTHING IS DECIDED ON THE APPLICATION OF THE SYAO, BUT THE FREEDOM SHOULD ALWAYS BE SHOULDER!
  27. +1
    22 December 2015 15: 27
    respect the strong. It has always been in history .. there is and will be. otherwise provided in principle. diplomacy is needed in order to cynically use your enemy and all for your own well-being. even in trade we agree on a price on the most favorable conditions for YOURSELF ... and do not give out billions of dollars of gifts to the right and left. and we have politicians some ideas of the world socialist revolution, after which everyone will live in peace and friendship .. everyone is trying to like someone .. like girls somehow. such need immediately in the fool and give read books on history.
  28. +3
    22 December 2015 15: 33
    I also believe that it was necessary to strike at the Turkish base, from where this moronic pilot-lawless pilot took off. Or in some other way, but in a MILITARY way, and only then, in pursuit of including economic sanctions against Turkey. Wanted blood? here, scoop it up. The sowed wind will reap a storm, and impunity will cause even greater problems in the future.
    I don’t think that after this the Turkish seiner would come closer to our TFR.
    1. +2
      22 December 2015 20: 40
      Any Asian perceives our kindness and honesty as weakness ... therefore, it should be continued until all teeth are removed once ... angry
  29. 0
    22 December 2015 15: 33
    Both Erdogan and Davutoglu need to be taken out, in parts it is desirable, so as not to be mischievous.
  30. +2
    22 December 2015 15: 35
    This reminds me of a conversation with a former Ukrainian friend who said there that we are killing them and all that, like why are you so poor for us.

    And I asked him a perfectly logical question - and your citizens who fought in Chechnya and killed our Russian soldiers, why are they now in power? Why are your soldiers who shot down our planes in 2008 now serving in the army of your state?

    So for what - there are reasons, and I hope we will not forget about these reasons.
  31. +3
    22 December 2015 15: 35
    It is interesting how the situation would have developed if a Turkish plane had been shot down in hot pursuit. Naturally, over the territory of Syria. What is the difference between Turkish airspace and airspace UN-recognized state - Syria, which has universally recognized borders and territory.
  32. +2
    22 December 2015 15: 38
    Everything is clearly described, it was necessary to cover the base from where these creatures at once cover 10 kilotons, and now we’ll have to prepare all 100
  33. +5
    22 December 2015 15: 39
    The problem is old and still unsolvable. Even before Buki and other nasty things, our citizens and courts were repeatedly arrested in small African states under various unreasonable pretexts. And it cost us a lot of effort and money to free them. The local kings (presidents) were up to the lantern that we had nuclear weapons, they also put it out of brackets. Our diplomacy does not like sudden movements and perhaps the only example of a quick and radical response to rudeness is the events on Fr. Daman. And do not say that he still left us, this is a different story, but the educational effect exceeded all expectations. And no one doubted that we were ready to repeat this in any other place without hesitation.
    1. -1
      23 December 2015 01: 02
      You would read more about Damansky so as not to bring nonsense.
  34. +3
    22 December 2015 15: 40
    Brothers, what does the nuclear weapon have to do with it?
    Tactical, strategic, easy, medium, heavy ... any, in short.
    What, the light converged on a nuclear weapon, or what?
    Are there few other options? Punish rebellious Turkey?
    If the author believes that our GDP is "spineless", or whoever plays his tune there ..... then it should have been stated - on November 25 at 16:00 at the base from which this "F-16 terrorist" took off , a BLOW will be delivered.
    Thermobaric weapons. The entire power of the RF Armed Forces will be used in support.
    Persons not interested in receiving "unforeseen gifts" please leave the specified base. Until 17:00.
    And - on November 24, at 23:59, howl all over the world, at the top of his voice - Ensign Ivanov Sidor Petrovich, got drunk, skaaatina, and gave a whack at the airport.
    We apologize .... it happens .. you know, sometimes in Russia they drink.
    And everyone would be wiped out. No sanctions would follow. Or they would be exactly the same.
    ...
    And to the question of Putin's rabies.
    So I listened to his press conference .. and I became aware of such a reaction.
    In practice, in good Russian, Vladimir Vladimirovich said so - at the summit, they agreed with the Turks on a VERY important issue. For them. And for us. We literally stepped on the throat of our own song - but we promised. Washing teeth to the roots, pouring ice sweat. I think there was a diplomatic corps on my ears. And the creak from the teeth of our residents grind down by files, where the thread in the Asian dungeons, was heard on the street.
    But okay. I agree.
    And then - bam - and SU-24.
    And then - bam - and Turkey, to pacify the Kurds, is introducing troops into the north of Iraq.
    And how should the main contracting person feel?
    Add two and two and subtract the square root.
    ...
    So I see.
  35. -2
    22 December 2015 15: 40
    The author, of course, is largely right, but if you face the truth, fighting with the Turks is to fight with all of NATO, even if it’s not direct, but we are not ready for this, who knows that he served in our army.
    1. +3
      22 December 2015 15: 48
      And what does it mean to fight with Turkey? To go on the attack in full growth or apply tank wedges? Weigh a good p .. dyulin and will be with her.
  36. +14
    22 December 2015 15: 43
    The article is very good.
    Those who advise in response to immediately bomb, knock down, wipe off the face of the earth: Do not you remember? At that time, there was a tiny problem that prevented the immediate use of force - several tens of thousands of our fellow citizens in Turkey (most tourists). Actually hostages.
    1. 0
      23 December 2015 07: 23
      It is this fact that has cooled the general indignation of our population. Everyone remembered the tragedy of the airbus over Sinai. The trump card with our tourists was in the hands of Erdogan.
  37. -1
    22 December 2015 15: 43
    a lot of text, in short, the general sense is this: besides the vigorous bomb, we have nothing to seriously answer the Turks, because we are not at all the USSR, but much smaller and weaker. and if we are embarrassed to use nuclear weapons, then soon a pendal will come to us from some Latvia, so you should not wait for such a shame, but it is better to start a nuclear war first.
    I have a couple of questions.
    if we are not the USSR, then why are we making ourselves up as a superpower, are we measuring something with the states? may be able to bear the burden of strength, to tear the former fraternal republics for example.
    and if we agree to a nuclear war, then we agree and die in it, because such an outcome is most likely. I would like to know for what. for the sake of al-Assad, for the sake of the integrity of Syria, for the sake of not being considered weaklings, for the sake of revenge on the Turks, because of resentment towards the West as a whole, due to the fact that we are unable to deal with the economy and are tired of fighting it already. Please tell me a really good reason for a nuclear war.
  38. +6
    22 December 2015 15: 47
    Well, bang. Well, let's turn the Inzherlik base into a mixture of sand and glass, what's next? A statement to the UN Lavrov that this will happen to anyone who encroaches on us? This is akin to declaring war on half the world. And how the USA will take advantage of this! MMM ... a tidbit for introducing everything that is possible and impossible. The United States stretches its hands wherever it is needed, and after such an attack they will be completely untied. And under the pretext of already real Russian nuclear aggression, they will first occupy Europe completely, and then they will crush China and the rest of Asia.
    I would like to recall that you and I do not know even a tenth of what is happening in the world. And Putin has a dozen intelligence and analytical offices. He sees a chess game from above, and you are just on the side, where some pieces obscure others.
    1. +1
      23 December 2015 11: 21
      And we are ready for this war, otherwise it will not work !!!
  39. +2
    22 December 2015 15: 48
    Very correct article very much !!! Plus definitely!
    1. +1
      22 December 2015 20: 31
      100 ++++++++++++++++
  40. +8
    22 December 2015 15: 48
    In hand-to-hand combat, it is important not only to strike, but also the ability to keep a missed one. Russia is not the USSR, and it will have to prove its right to exist more than once. We live in a world where honesty, goodness, humanism are perceived as weakness, and meanness, lies, the right of the strong are the norm. Conclusion: we will be forced to prove our strength with our fists, and at the same time they will shout in surprise "and we are for what!". Three ways of coexistence are possible with Russia: 1. Neutral (you don’t touch us, we are you) 2. Friendly (both a crust of bread and that in half) 3. Confidential (sooner or later you will get it in full), and put everything else out of parentheses wassat
  41. +11
    22 December 2015 15: 57
    The author does not take into account the following points:
    1. During the Cold War, there were several cases on both sides when amers and I shot each other - there were aircraft and submarines. All this was simply not advertised.

    2. Ours from the very beginning did not want a conflict - if you remember, then initially ours put forward a version of fire from the ground, which gave Turkey a chance by confirming this version not to put everything on display. However, the Turks began to scream at all angles that they had brought down it. This is what infuriates our leadership. Accordingly, the showdown with Turkey is also there and will be loud.

    3. We could not give an immediate answer due to the fact that a significant number of our citizens were at that time in Turkey. Those. immediate response entailed numerous victims of our citizens.

    4. If we talk about Ukrainians in Georgia, then yes Ukraine has installed air defense systems (officially), and the calculations are not very official. However, Ukraine did not boast of this at the state level - everything was done as quietly as possible. Therefore, the showdown (and they certainly were) were also quiet.

    5. As for our military response, it should be immediate, but it was not possible by virtue of paragraph 3. Therefore, the answer has become economic. And then it is not known what is worse for Turkey. Moreover, a military response to the case is also not excluded.
  42. +18
    22 December 2015 16: 00
    One friend of the conscript served in the navy in some coastal unit where they dealt with nuclear weapons carriers, he did not elaborate much, for obvious reasons, after that he said, they say there was a very specific attitude to the "edren loaf", sometimes similar to too indifferent with a touch of black humor. Then, after graduating from a university with a degree in psychology, by mature reflections, it dawned on him that they, young soldiers, were simply breaking their fear of nuclear weapons. And he also said that the officers for the most part treated these missiles and torpedoes just as weapons and not some kind of "deterrent" or "doomsday weapon" - the same garbage as AK, only bigger and more powerful, there will be an order - a bullet where necessary, and let "the whole world to dust." Probably it is necessary that the soldiers were always ready to apply it when it is really necessary, and not tormented by Shakespearean passions.
  43. +3
    22 December 2015 16: 01
    All actions of the EU and the West reminded me of one old Soviet joke:

    Two friends of an alcoholic stand in a queue for alcohol, stand for a long time. And when the line reaches them, the department closes for lunch. One turns to each other and punches him in the face. That falls and sitting on the pope asks the hit comrade:
    For what ? And he answers him: What to do ?!
    I mean that the EU and the West simply have no idea and even sometimes do not know how to behave with the Russian Federation. And accordingly, driven by instinct, they act on the principle: what happens.
  44. +2
    22 December 2015 16: 02
    All this means that our management is not ready to adequately respond to a glove thrown in the face! Yesterday they shot down a plane, today they will sink a seiner, tomorrow they will "accidentally" kill a diplomatic officer ... And? What will be the answer?
    1. +2
      22 December 2015 21: 27
      Quote: eleronn
      All this means that our management is not ready to adequately respond to a glove thrown in the face! Yesterday they shot down a plane, today they will sink a seiner, tomorrow they will "accidentally" kill a diplomatic officer ... And? What will be the answer?

      I think exactly the same as it was, no.
      1. DPN
        0
        23 December 2015 01: 27
        That's why you think correctly +
  45. +1
    22 December 2015 16: 03
    The author of the entire article reined in the wound.
    Of course, he examined the main idea from all sides. What to do in response to ridicule, secret attacks and insults?
    One answer is to take away territories, the second is to use weapons.
    ?
    Take the straits from Turkey, the more they were ours.
    Such a conclusion.
    1. -1
      22 December 2015 21: 56
      Do not remind me when the straits (as I understand the Bosphorus and the Dardanelles) were ours?
      1. 0
        24 December 2015 13: 15
        1915, secret agreement.
  46. +11
    22 December 2015 16: 04
    The situation with Turkey is complicated. Our Government knows who is to blame for this, Ukraine is among them. I remember the events of October 1941 of the year. The battles of Leningrad. Thanks to the intervention of G.K. Zhukov managed to turn the tide on the Leningrad front. On September 21-23, the 386 bombers raided the Baltic Fleet, and the fleet was saved. The evacuation of children by the Ladoga flotilla through Ladoga began. And so the fascist pilots sank a barge with our children. Commanders and fighters saw on the water children's hats that carried the waves to the shore. And after that, our pilots did not capture a single fascist pilot. Pilots from destroyed Nazi planes were destroyed for their atrocities.
    I think that such a fate should be prepared for all those who shot at our SU-24 and the militants shooting the pilot descending by parachute. I have the honor.
    1. -6
      22 December 2015 22: 06
      With this story, you rather explained why the Turkoman shot the paratrooper.
  47. The comment was deleted.
  48. +3
    22 December 2015 16: 07
    A nuclear club is certainly too much, but at least it is necessary to stop calling enemies the partners. This is ridiculous. They want to harm our country, and we are their partners.
  49. +4
    22 December 2015 16: 09
    I fully share the author’s opinion that the nuclear shield of Russia is aimed solely at deterring the military ambitions of the United States, but not like any other, especially non-nuclear states. BUT!!! HOW TO BE? The Turks hit us in the balls, GDP promised that we won’t get rid of tomatoes here ... and then what? We will wait when these eggs are torn off ???
    1. dpu
      0
      23 December 2015 19: 37
      By the way, GDP has never been mistaken in its Actions.
  50. +5
    22 December 2015 16: 19
    Didn't put any plus or minus. Judging by the article, the author is boiling and he wants to get a "response" from someone in a kid. But Capone wouldn't be Capone if he shot everyone who did nasty things to him.
    1. +1
      24 December 2015 23: 11
      Sorry, but he just became a capone thanks to the fact that he shot everyone!
  51. +1
    22 December 2015 16: 19
    Quote: mpzss
    I do not understand, the author suggests starting the third world war !? I sympathize with the relatives of the dead pilot and paratrooper, but the death of these two heroes should not lead to the death of thousands or millions of other people! There is a saying: Better is a bad world than a good war!
    Yes, let them think about us that they want, that we are cowards, that we cannot stand up for ourselves, and so on, but history shows where ALL those who thought turned out to be!
    The time will come and everyone will answer as they deserve!

    Yes? I wonder what sacrifices this will cost? For some reason we are always not ready to give an answer! And Stalin told the border guards in 41 not to react to provocations! Then we all know what happened! Hitler, by the way, watched the Finnish situation very closely and drew conclusions for himself...
  52. 0
    22 December 2015 16: 20
    Yes, I’ll see, half of our commentators want to bang with all their might? So that the whole world is in ruins? Somehow I’m not at all looking forward to a nuclear winter)) And indeed, retaliatory actions should have been taken earlier, in fact...
    1. +2
      22 December 2015 19: 57
      Quote: pavlentiy
      Yes, I’ll see, half of our commentators want to bang with all their might? So that the whole world is in ruins? Somehow I’m not at all looking forward to a nuclear winter)) And indeed, retaliatory actions should have been taken earlier, in fact...




      In principle, I agree with him.
  53. +1
    22 December 2015 16: 24
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    The article was published on Today, 14:48
    Next comment first in Sinister Today, 14:49
    The question is, though, did he read something besides the headline?
    At the same time, they threw him 7 pluses, the question is for what?

    the damn bastard is really raising his ratings,
    the problem is that before reading your comment they first give it a plus)))
    I also upvoted... I'll be more careful now)
  54. 0
    22 December 2015 16: 24
    Hatred is not for the common people of Turkey, but for that gang of freaks who determine the fate of this country!
  55. 0
    22 December 2015 16: 26
    I read the comments and realized that many raised their butts from the sofa, went to the closet and took out their “general’s shoulder straps.” But they forgot to turn on their brains!
    Correctly noted
    Boos
    I like the phrase from "Officers" ... - The commander must think! Think! And do not wave a saber!
  56. 0
    22 December 2015 16: 29
    Quote: eleronn
    All this means that our management is not ready to adequately respond to a glove thrown in the face! Yesterday they shot down a plane, today they will sink a seiner, tomorrow they will "accidentally" kill a diplomatic officer ... And? What will be the answer?


    Adequate.
    1. 0
      23 December 2015 08: 25
      Quote: 1976AG
      Quote: eleronn
      All this means that our management is not ready to adequately respond to a glove thrown in the face! Yesterday they shot down a plane, today they will sink a seiner, tomorrow they will "accidentally" kill a diplomatic officer ... And? What will be the answer?


      Adequate.

      ...rather, “asymmetrical”: you shot down our plane, and we’ll throw tomatoes at you! Turkish...
  57. 0
    22 December 2015 16: 35
    The Turks must be punished. Very cruel and so that every dog ​​would know why. But you need to calculate the time correctly. Don't forget that their resorts were full of ours
  58. +2
    22 December 2015 16: 43
    I agree with the author, but before striking back, you first need to figure it out within your own Country. Do you think energy is a military sector of the economy? The question is unnecessary, you say, strategic means military, and that’s true. Yesterday on the OTR program "De Facto" there was a very interesting program, Professor Viktor Kudryavy - about the Russian energy sector in times of crisis and new tariffs. Watch it and perhaps you will understand where to start and where to end.

    http://www.otr-online.ru/programmi/de-fakto-24627/viktor-kudryavii--48186.html
  59. -1
    22 December 2015 16: 44
    Quote: Vadim237
    Remember how our border territory with Ukraine in 2014 was fired upon by the Ukrainian Armed Forces, then our citizens died, and what we did in response was nothing, they forgave and forgot everything.


    I’ve already written once on the forum, and I’ll repeat it again: the situation with Ukraine, and in particular with the shelling of our territory, is not the best example. Because: it flew there in both directions then, our artillery was then working in Ukraine, and from there, naturally, a response flew in. But somehow they didn’t show it on TV. And I had a chance to talk with artillerymen who worked there directly.
    Therefore, to say that everyone has forgiven and forgotten is not entirely correct, because... It’s not a fact that the Ukrainian Armed Forces were the first to fire across the border.
    1. 0
      22 December 2015 16: 50
      Please provide evidence about the art working from our territory in Ukraine.
  60. 0
    22 December 2015 16: 44
    Quote: Alexander Romanov
    The article was published in Today, 14: 48
    Next koment first in Sinister Today, 14:49
    The question is, though, did he read something besides the headline?
    At the same time, they threw him 7 pluses, the question is for what?

    It’s just that some articles arrive an hour earlier, probably, there are no other assumptions, there is no smell of speed reading here.
  61. 0
    22 December 2015 16: 45
    "politics is the art of the possible" (c)
    You can juggle the USSR as much as you like, but it won’t make it any easier for anyone. for that country does not exist. By the way, the union was just broken by the low price of oil. Now the “partners” wrapped in sheets and their overseas owners are trying to repeat the situation. It’s sad, but today we have a country with a poorly developed and very dependent economy. in the situation with a downed SU, the country’s leadership faced a difficult task - to get out of the situation saving face and with the least losses - financial/political. Another point is the revenge dish, which is served cold. It’s clear from Putin that he correctly understands the situation with the downed dryer. I can say with confidence that if Putin continues to lead the country, the current leadership of Turkey will very much regret that they killed our pilot.
  62. vo3
    +3
    22 December 2015 16: 50
    Turkey's policy has always been hostile. What is the answer? The loss of our plane opened our eyes. Finally... The deceased pilot is a hero who paid with his life for the truth. We helped the enemy for a long time. There is no other way to call the Turkish government. This is not an answer - this is an epiphany... Why are we building an nuclear power plant for the ENEMY?
    1. 0
      23 December 2015 00: 47
      Are you sure that the built nuclear power plant, for which the Turks will pay good money, will not explode at the time we need due to a terrorist attack by some Kurds? After all, this will be a terrorist attack, not self-destruction. Quite a Trojan atomic horse.
  63. +4
    22 December 2015 16: 58
    That's right, we got everything! With all due respect to GDP, I was struck by his words spoken in a recently shown film with Solovyov: “Our friends from Saudi Arabia...”. For about two minutes I didn’t hear anything about what they were talking about - a complete stupor. Why so much political correctness? With friends like these, light the stoves!
  64. 0
    22 December 2015 17: 12
    Quote: Vadim237
    Please provide evidence about the art working from our territory in Ukraine.

    That is, do you really want me to give the military unit number, the name of the person with whom I spoke, his position and military rank? So that you (and anyone else) can check it.
    Dismiss
    1. 0
      23 December 2015 08: 27
      Quote: konstant_n
      Quote: Vadim237
      Please provide evidence about the art working from our territory in Ukraine.

      That is, do you really want me to give the military unit number, the name of the person with whom I spoke, his position and military rank? So that you (and anyone else) can check it.
      Dismiss

      Fired!!!
  65. +3
    22 December 2015 17: 29
    Just three months ago, didn’t we know that the Turks were helping the barmaleys and buying up oil? Everyone just knew we were **** and now there is so much anger. And I really feel sorry for the pilots, they found themselves hostages in a big and someone else’s game.
  66. +8
    22 December 2015 17: 39
    The main reason for our toothless policy is that our Government, and representatives of large and major businesses, and even the guarantor himself, cannot imagine how it is possible to exist in isolation from “Western partners”.
    Both their children and their property are permanently outside the Russian Federation.
    No matter what anyone says about return of capital.
    This is nonsense!
    And the events taking place - the aggravation of relations with the Russian Federation over Crimea - are perceived by them as an annoying nuisance that is about to resolve!
    But it doesn’t dissolve.
    But everything was so nice!
    They sawed and mowed the loot here and went there to live.
    What about Rashka? Let it bend.

    Against this background, all the statements of our leaders tell us (the world “community” is already clear) -
    We (Russians) will not do anything to you.

    Those. Our leadership has signed that it cannot and does not want to give an answer in such a way that bloody yushka will be smeared on the wall.

    After all, for all sanctions it is enough to simply ban planes from, say, Poland and the United States from crossing our airspace. And Czechs and Italians are allowed! Show the Germans the goat's face too!
    So what?
    Do you think it won't work?
    A couple of months to fly around our country on a long route.
    For those who have forgotten, the Russian Federation is the largest country in the world.
    Fuel costs will increase fivefold.
    And the Chinese, as an exception, will be allowed to fly to Europe.

    Well, who's stopping?
    The gut is thin.
    They hope that our “balanced” behavior will be appreciated, they will pat us on the head and the sanctions will be lifted.

    To every sanction there must be such a response that in the future there would be no thought of imposing sanctions.
    So I don’t believe what our first person said about a fight and being the first to hit.
    Either he didn’t fight or he didn’t hit.

    And generally speaking.
    Such childish amateurism and soft-heartedness of our army leadership led to the plane being shot down.
    It had to be delivered immediately, before the planes arrived.
    Motivation - in order to protect Daesh terrorists from aircraft.
    That's all.
    Whether they have them or not, go prove them.
    Our craftsmen could order a photo from space.
    And minefields off the coast of Syria must already be erected to protect against terrorist submarines.
    And again a photo to justify it.

    If “spit in their eyes, but they are God’s dew,” then we need to be the same.
    To live with wolves, howl like a wolf.
  67. +4
    22 December 2015 17: 44
    As for fear or not fear, the reaction of countries is the same as the reaction of a criminal. When you take him to the police station, he constantly needs to increase his pain threshold! Otherwise, he will relax and break free. The same goes for countries. No matter how much you intimidate, you will have to cause inconvenience. People tend to become impudent. But economic security must be dealt with very seriously. There should be no casual economic ties at all. For some punks to then dictate terms to a serious country is unacceptable. Russia has missed something in this regard somewhere. Now the result is obvious. What if If they had worked competently 15 years ago in foreign policy, they wouldn’t have to endure it now.
  68. 0
    22 December 2015 18: 36
    I can only say one thing for now. Well done author, albeit with a lot of water and emotions. But this is more than made up for by the content and meaning.
    “As it should have been...” is always easy to say, and they will say it, no matter what decision is made. But here’s one thing... so far Putin has not made serious mistakes in foreign policy (in my opinion), and if he wanted to “punish” someone, he did it. And he doesn’t look like someone who can easily forget and forgive the Turks... however, this is not a reason to raise all the Turks to knives. So... it’s good that now our planes are accompanied by fighters. Why didn't this happen before? I, too, couldn’t even imagine that one of the “allies” would go to such nonsense as shooting down our plane! This has simply never happened before! Now everyone understands everything...
  69. +1
    22 December 2015 18: 56
    what is the article about??? What kind of woman's hysterics?
    What country do you live in? I always like the comparison of Russia with a bear. A large and strong animal does not start jumping and galloping at every irritation.
    The author argues from a retrospective perspective and still does not grasp its meaning. For every sane person who thought about how the situation in the world has changed since 2001, the quick transformation of Ukraine into a rabid enemy of Russia was no secret many years before everything happened. For those who know what Turkey is and what the Turks are like (no need to take the diplomatic statements of the GDP seriously) as a people, it was obvious that they would definitely try to shoot down our plane.
    And yet both facts happened. Inevitability? Impotence? Or does someone really assess their strengths and respond to challenges thoughtfully and inevitably?
    Wait. Türkiye will declare itself more than once. Time is playing on us now, because... despite financial difficulties, Russia is becoming stronger. Slowly. It's too slow, but it's getting there. As always, the common people will pay for this slowness. This is our fate...
  70. The comment was deleted.
  71. +2
    22 December 2015 19: 44
    Gentlemen, there is a grain of truth in the author’s words. Just don’t destroy peaceful people, but it’s time to remind them. How many megatons was “Kuzka’s mother”? We need to test it to the end, all three stages, at the same training ground. They say repetition is the mother of learning. You can’t imagine what consequences this simple test of tactical nuclear weapons will have on the political status of Russia! Diapers will become scarce. The next day all sanctions on Russia will be lifted. The world will return to normal in negotiations on the limitation of nuclear weapons.
  72. +1
    22 December 2015 19: 52
    It was necessary to carry out a tactical nuclear strike on the airport territory!
  73. +2
    22 December 2015 20: 09
    A firm and strong foreign policy should be based not only on nuclear weapons, but first of all on a strong economy, and this, unfortunately, was sacrificed by liberals to world capital, to which an independent and economically strong Russia is like a “boil on the ass.” And until they somehow wrest power from the GDP or this very nuclear weapon, for example, by the complete collapse of the economy (which, with the help of our liberal government, they are doing very well). And only those who do not want to see the ongoing collapse of industrial production in Russia do not see this obvious fact. Under this government of the GDP and with it, Russia as a state will not last long - it is necessary, it is necessary to give a kick in the ass to the economic bloc, as it is not coping with the responsibilities assigned to it. All weapons plans are not being implemented 100%; the deadlines for many projects are shifted by 5-7 years. We can talk a lot on this topic, but here the GDP is greatly undermined (the liberals will betray it at the right moment - they are waiting for elections and preparing a leader convenient for the SGA), not daring to give a kick to the pseudo-liberal government! angry
    1. 0
      23 December 2015 08: 38
      Quote: Vlad5307
      A firm and strong foreign policy should be based not only on nuclear weapons, but first of all on a strong economy,

      There is an American program on television! - “Naked and Afraid”: they release a couple (a man and a woman) naked into nature: the tools they use are a machete and a rag (and that’s not a shame to cover up, but to make a bag...). 20 days in a tropical forest, jungle, on the coast somewhere in warm (!!!) climes... Few people can stand it! Just now a man fell into some tropical nettle - he almost died if it weren’t for the “Evon woman”... coming out!
      ...Here - in the richest and most powerful country in the world (well, got it, right?) - what, the anti-radiation bunkers are the deepest of all?... How long will the “reserves” - hamburgers and cheeseburgers - be enough... with anti-radiation drugs?.. .Hardly...And they will be “naked and scared”!

      ...a very correct broadcast - on American (!!!) television...
  74. 0
    22 December 2015 20: 27
    That's right, there is just wild entertainment on TV.... Roughly speaking, powdering one's brains and beating up normal consciousness.... Plus the rabid politicization of TV, now in one direction (Ukraine) then in the other (Syria)... all about internal problems ZERO... And we have a million of them.... 1. Economics, 2. Education. 3. Medicine, etc. Officials do nothing, the oligarchs continue to plunder the mineral resources and buy yachts... The governors are stealing outright... The people live worse day by day... Or maybe this is the secret American weapon?????????7 am am
  75. 0
    22 December 2015 20: 28
    That's right, there is just wild entertainment on TV.... Roughly speaking, powdering one's brains and beating up normal consciousness.... Plus the rabid politicization of TV, now in one direction (Ukraine) then in the other (Syria)... all about internal problems ZERO... And we have a million of them.... 1. Economics, 2. Education. 3. Medicine, etc. Officials do nothing, the oligarchs continue to plunder the mineral resources and buy yachts... The governors are stealing outright... The people live worse day by day... Or maybe this is the secret American weapon?????????7 am am
  76. +3
    22 December 2015 20: 42
    I am Russian. I’m the same Colorado.
    Sovdepovsky sucks, rashist and cotton wool.
    I'm the one who loves vodka and Parade,
    I am the offspring of a victorious soldier.

    I'm the most natural
    Brought up on "my mother washed the frame."
    I am the one who feels sorry for the Donetsk people,
    Who despises the States and Obama.

    Do not rejoice. We are not extinct.
    There are many of us - not used to eating from the belly.
    Humanity has instilled in us life.
    In the chambers of the dying Union.

    We survived, of course, not all.
    But the survivors only became stronger.
    We, Russians, have become Russified three times,
    They rose from the ashes of your conscience.

    For us, the sacred is Motherland and mother,
    The world fears us because it knows:
    Who "can’t understand Russia wisely",
    That's why she habitually explains,

    What is there in the world, besides grub,
    Decency, dignity and conscience.
    And our Russian “I’m going to YOU” -
    Unfortunately, this is bad news for you stupid people.

    Don't touch RUSSIA, gentlemen!
    Remember: they beat us, but we become husbands.
    Hear us. And if not, then
    Death will come to you for a new harvest.

    We shouldn't be checked for lice,
    American, you are not the messiah!
    Think and don't touch our mother -
    An empire called RUSSIA.

    KONSTANTIN SAKHNO
  77. +2
    22 December 2015 20: 59
    The question must be asked in full, not in parts: a DOES THE BUTTON PRESS? Putin, if the time comes for “H”? To at least respond, to take revenge on the “chosen” nations for the attack and destruction?
    I personally am in this -I'm absolutely not sure.
  78. 0
    22 December 2015 21: 03
    Okay, calm down, Greenpeace saved the flogging fever.
    Yandex Direct

    Black caviar is inexpensive. Order!
    Black caviar is inexpensive. Delivery of natural caviar in Moscow and Moscow! 20% discount!

    Such a normal Greenpeace laughing
  79. 0
    22 December 2015 21: 12
    During the Second World War, bombers were accompanied by fighters. Obviously the “commanders in chief” forgot something
  80. 0
    22 December 2015 21: 26
    Imagine that Chechnya has a territory of 17 million square kilometers. and nuclear weapons capable of destroying the world several dozen times over and its president Ramzan Kadyrov. Should we continue? I will continue - NATO pays tribute to Chechnya, supplies food and goods and quietly rejoices at every new day...
  81. +1
    22 December 2015 21: 27
    The Georgians did not master them; the missiles were launched by Ukrainian crews

    Complete nonsense. Where does this data come from? Where are the facts?
    Beech was in Georgia long before 2008. And they knew how to work with it.
    Here people pretend to be experts, but here they gossip more.
  82. Bor
    0
    22 December 2015 21: 58
    Life is unpredictable. I hope the right conclusions are drawn and at the right time the answer will come to the right place...
  83. 0
    22 December 2015 22: 19
    Quote: alexey bukin
    Quote: severniy
    you had to answer for the plane right away, without waiting for an apology from anyone,

    For Turkey, these consequences came as a surprise. It can be seen that we are used to the fact that our former leaders were puppets in the hands of the West and Washington. Russia showed its teeth, made it clear that it is impossible to do with it as they would like. The fact that Turkey did not even apologize is the height of cynicism, which forces Russia to act adequately.
    Author plus for the article!

    In general, I can agree with you, but I’m not clear about the teeth. Where did you see them, or what did you see them in? belay
  84. -2
    22 December 2015 22: 27
    What is the article about?
  85. 0
    22 December 2015 23: 12
    My personal opinion is that the bell has rung for NATO. Since they disown Turkey, it means there is no longer any need to talk about any unity. I am sure we are already working hard on this issue.
  86. +1
    22 December 2015 23: 18
    Loved the article.
    Especially this: “...That is, if someone thinks that shooting down Russian planes is in the order of things, in Russia they may suddenly decide that using tactical nuclear weapons once is just a trifle, no big deal...”
    It is true. The Americans dropped two atomic bombs on Japan when it was no longer possible to do so. And the whole world realized that America is a great country, it has a club in its hands, which it is ready (!) to use and will not particularly understand. And even the Japanese began to be very friendly with the Americans and kept quiet about the use of nuclear weapons against civilians.
    Everything that has been done against our country cannot be let go. Judging by Putin's rating, Russian citizens respect themselves and are proud of their country. Rare exceptions of liberals who are ready to lick for free or for money are rare exceptions.
  87. +3
    22 December 2015 23: 19
    It is necessary to burn, quite ordinary, not nuclear.
    To hit enemy number 1, without removing whom the country will not be able to survive.
    Collect all the evil spirits that betray and sell out the country, starting with the redhead and a couple of hundred more and into molecules.
    And send the economic block of the government with its entire staff to the Vostochny cosmodrome to complete construction and learn the laws of economics, real ones, and instructions written by CIA analysts on how to ruin the state. And for effective managers, it’s imperative to take them with the propagandists of Western democracy, you can prepare with a glamorous party and a house for 2 construction projects, again, the roads in the country are bad.
    Other enemies are not as scary as internal ones. And even without the help of their people in governing Russia, the United States and the West will have a hard time. They will lose a colony that has worked for 25 years to develop the Western economy.
    Somehow this must be done in order to take the first step towards strengthening the country. Otherwise, all disputes about how to respond to yet another betrayal, spitting, or stab in the back by friends and partners will remain just an impotent vibration in the air.
  88. -2
    22 December 2015 23: 44
    I wonder if the author is at least minimally familiar with the word “adequacy”? The USSR shot down American planes in all conflicts of the Cold War, they even sank each other’s submarines - does this mean that the leadership of the USSR and the USA were cowardly people if they did not decide on a nuclear apocalypse? Let's just declare war on the whole world, because someone once did something to us.
  89. +2
    23 December 2015 00: 29
    The pistol is, of course, good. But a kind word is a must. Better - after the pistol. It is possible - up to. But after - definitely. So that there is no misunderstanding: who and for what.
    No, you can get by with a kind word. If it works. But then - add from a pistol. To make it better remembered.
  90. DPN
    +2
    23 December 2015 01: 21
    The article is very correct, sending the Aerospace Forces to war, their powers must be wartime. Therefore, we have to remember N.S. Khrushchev, who forced the United States to hide in bomb shelters, and the Englishwoman Margaret Thatcher, who sent her nuclear fleet to Argentina.
    For this reason, I completely agree; sanctions must be responded to on the verge of a FOUL. We are sitting with a good cudgel and are afraid to wave it at the sanctions. We are cowardly and wait until we are completely driven into a corner.
    The question arises: why then does Russia need this BLIND????
  91. 0
    23 December 2015 05: 56
    Let's bang, we'll definitely bang more than once!
    The whole world is in ruins... but then!
  92. 0
    23 December 2015 06: 12
    I remember someone compared Ukraine with a hysterical woman,
    which forces the man to slap her,
    and then runs to film the beatings and write a statement.
    It's the same here. Well, we gave it a slap in the face.
    And everyone would immediately turn against us for being a country
    trampled into the Middle Ages for one pilot.
    How long were we silent before introducing counter-sanctions?
    And what a good moment to introduce...
    I think that here, too, development is now underway
    how to hit harder and more unexpectedly.
  93. 0
    23 December 2015 08: 00
    The article is emotional and provocative. There is no need to flog the fever. Everything has its time. It’s like the joke about the old and young bulls: now we will slowly, slowly go down and fuck the whole herd. But about the downed plane, I will say that we ourselves did not pay attention to its protection. And the Turks had to be punched in the teeth immediately, painfully and angrily, so that others would be discouraged.
  94. 0
    23 December 2015 08: 40
    We will tear off the balls of ISIS Erdogan! AND RUSSIA WILL TEAR THEM OFF THESE ROTTEN TOMATOES!!! One blow to the USA and its entire economy will go to hell and the dollar is just paper! RUSSIA WILL SURVIVE AND WIN!!!
  95. 0
    23 December 2015 10: 46
    Oleg Egorov - huge RESPECT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  96. +1
    23 December 2015 11: 47
    The response to Erdogan is already underway. The “humanitarian” convoy burned down, suddenly the Kurds rebelled, and the PKK is already occupying one town after another. . I don’t want to be branded as Baba Vanga, but I think they won’t stop there. It’s not in vain that Senezh is now “guarding” the S-400 in Syria))
  97. NDA
    0
    23 December 2015 12: 09
    Very good article. I agree with this topic. A downed plane over Syria is just another slap in the face, similar to a street slap at the moment when you are testing your opponent’s restraint.
  98. T62
    0
    23 December 2015 12: 45
    It was necessary not to carry out an “uncontrolled launch” of a cruise missile that destroyed a hostel near Arkhangelsk, but from Syria at a Turkish airfield (as if by accident), and nothing would have happened - the launch was not “controlled.” There would be a real, and not a tangerine-tomato, response to the downing of Su and the death of the pilot.
    But seriously, this too will pass. In not too long a time they will again hug and kiss (it’s clear who) and swear eternal friendship, strong partnerships, etc., etc. There are more than enough examples, even if we take the recent past. Politicians have very short memories. What do we care about the death of one pilot, when we lost much more, and then again friendship forever.
  99. 0
    23 December 2015 17: 31
    Every word of this article is spot on. They seriously believe that Russia is just a paper tiger :)
    1. 0
      23 December 2015 18: 05
      You can add to enlighten all Turks and other American-Gayropean zalu.pas.tik - “Don’t wake up the trouble while it’s quiet.” Let’s pile on, it won’t seem like much.
  100. 0
    23 December 2015 22: 57
    At one time, Gromyko voiced a not bad option. And to hell with Istanbul
    1. 0
      23 December 2015 23: 27
      The respected Internet community has strange ideas about reality.
      This is how to carry out a further operation in Syria, without motivating the pilots and not only - if there is no response when a plane is shot down from a neighboring country. This motivation is much more important than the motivation of Internet warriors.
      Think for yourself.
      Radio reconnaissance is working, Thuraya was hacked long ago, negotiations and coordinates of all phones are available in real time. Since the destruction of Dudayev, the topic has been developed and the technology has become better.
      Turks - they usually speak Turkish. And there is someone to understand what and who is talking about.
      Is the variant of the flight mission/modification of rockets on suspension - among the comrades of the deceased pilot - clear to everyone?