Military Review

Northrop introduced the concept of the sixth generation fighter

76
Northrop introduced the concept of the sixth generation fighter


The concept of the sixth generation fighter company Northrop Grumman

Northrop Grumman showed its vision of the so-called sixth generation fighter by presenting an airplane with laser guns to journalists, which looks like a cross between a B-2 bomber and a X-47B multipurpose attack drone.

Chris Hernandez, vice president for research and future projects at Northrop, announced the main parameters of the sixth generation fighter (in Northrop he was given the designation NG Air Dominance - air dominance of a new generation):
1.on should have a greater range, since the airbases are not always located at a sufficiently close distance from the boundaries of the probable enemy;
2. he must "carry a lot of weapons";
3. vitality will be put at the forefront.

Where will these requirements and parameters lead you? “It’s very similar to the small B-2 bomber, and it definitely falls into our vision,” Hernandez told reporters. Northrop Grumman has two design teams that are working on a new aircraft. Project managers for aerospace systems at Northrop, who offered to take a quick look at the work of the teams, did not discuss the speed of the new device, saying that they should wait for the Pentagon to have clearer requirements for the future aircraft.

Since for the sixth generation fighters, the supersonic speed will be basic (modern fighters can develop supersonic speed only for short intervals because of too high fuel consumption), then they will need appropriate ammunition capable of developing enormous speeds. In addition, new fighters will actively use combat lasers.

One of the key problems of this new weapon system, located in the very early stages of planning and design, will be the management of heat transfer. As the president for aerospace systems Tom Weiss, under normal conditions, lasers work with the efficiency of 33 percent. This means that a huge amount of heat must be dissipated, and this is only from lasers.

Add all the engines and other aircraft systems and you will get a huge heat problem. “And this needs to be addressed at the system level, since it is assumed that strict requirements for visibility will be imposed on the aircraft,” said Hernandez. The level of technical complexity makes this aircraft something of an advanced satellite, when the requirements for the system for electromagnetic interference, heat removal and power consumption create a tangle of avoidable and insurmountable problems at first glance.



The concept of the sixth generation fighter Boeing

If you look at the concept of the Boeing sixth generation fighter, you will see how the physical parameters and low visibility (stealth technology) affect the shape of this aircraft. The increase in fighter size is predicted by Boeing Corporation, which presented its F / A-XX concept in 2013 year. However, the concept of the Northrop aircraft seems to rely more on the experience of the B-2 bomber and its low visibility. If the flight range and payload are key parameters for these subtle aircraft, then they probably mean even more for the new fighter, which should incorporate much of the experience gained from the B-2, as well as from the new B-3 bomber (LRSB). To the question, if the sixth generation fighter ends up in accordance with a study by the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments - “a really large aircraft with a very long range,” Hernandez immediately turned to his presentation.

Materials used:
www.breakingdefense.com
www.northropgrumman.com
www.boeing.com
www.warspot.ru
www.nationalinterest.org
Author:
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  1. Good cat
    Good cat 21 December 2015 06: 46 New
    +1
    Straight star wars ....
    1. qwert
      qwert 21 December 2015 11: 52 New
      +7
      Here you can not do without phasatron engines. Well, transican annihilators will not hurt laughing
      1. Canep
        Canep 21 December 2015 15: 55 New
        +5
        From generation to generation, fighters acquire some new quality, the 1st generation received a jet engine (a qualitative breakthrough in both flight altitude and speed), the 2nd received a swept wing and a speed close to sonic (even greater speed and altitude), 3 -e - became supersonic. 4th - became super-maneuverable, 5th received invisibility and, more important, cruising supersonic. As can be seen from generation to generation, aircraft speed and maneuverability grew; at the latter, speed did not increase, but supersonic became the norm without afterburner. It follows that the 6th generation should be hypersonic in afterburner while maintaining super-maneuverability, and not invisible, because absolute invisibility is unattainable in principle. C400 sees everything that flies and a decrease in the equivalent reflective surface does not give any advantage. What Northrop Grumman introduced is the development of the F-117 or their offspring B-2 reduced to the size of a fighter. A laser weapon is a dead end, but it is convenient for cutting the budget.
        1. mmmsoc
          mmmsoc 21 December 2015 18: 17 New
          +1
          The use of laser guns in the atmosphere is stupid (attenuation is too much), hypersound is heating the body + overload. The development is about 15-20 years old, and there "either the donkey will die, or the sultan will die."
        2. mav1971
          mav1971 21 December 2015 19: 51 New
          +3
          Quote: Canep
          From which it follows that the 6-th generation should be hypersonic in afterburner while maintaining super maneuverability,

          What types of engines give hypersound?
          Do you know the answer to this question?
          Do you know the principles of their work?

          What super-maneuverability at such and similar speeds?
          What structural materials are able to withstand "over-maneuver" for example at 1.5M speed?
          Are they generally known to science?
          Or will we get transformations from the Autobots?



          Quote: Canep
          A laser weapon is a dead end, but it is convenient for cutting the budget.

          Only here the Americans don’t think so - for 40 years something has been teasing with a quiet glanders. And already the efficiency in 33% is voiced.
          And here we are talking about a dead end ...
          I would very much like that at least once someone who spoke about the "dead end", "useless" - ate his hat. when it turns out the other way around!
          1. Uncle VasyaSayapin
            Uncle VasyaSayapin 23 December 2015 17: 48 New
            0
            Another interesting point is the flight range. From this we can conclude that they are going to close their airfields around the world?
    2. Pajamas
      Pajamas 21 December 2015 13: 48 New
      +1
      Quote: Good cat
      Straight star wars ....

      To some extent, yes, the 6th generation will be very much integrated with space forces, both in terms of target designation and in terms of other possible integration schemes — defense, communications, control. As for the laser, I’m not sure of its combat use, one of the tasks for 6th generation devices is heat dissipation, if the problem is solved in principle then the laser will become ineffective, it is hard to believe in the output of optical system elements, reflectors, curtains, a small area relative to the entire device, duplication, and indeed the optical observation itself, as well as the detection tasks will be repeatedly duplicated by other elements - ground, air, space. This is IMHO.
    3. vkl-47
      vkl-47 21 December 2015 15: 24 New
      +1
      F35 fans and lovers now hang like pigs from happiness. For them, everything pendosovskoe is the pinnacle of engineering. They will believe in photons as well. Laser-fed Hollywood children
      1. Tektor
        Tektor 21 December 2015 15: 42 New
        +1
        Whatever they draw now, it will only be a 5+ fighter or bomber. Until the 6th generation, several discoveries still need to be made. For example, what will be the main weapon: a laser or a plasma gun (version of the railgun).
      2. Lt. Air Force stock
        Lt. Air Force stock 21 December 2015 15: 46 New
        +4
        Quote: vkl-47
        they will believe in a laser and in photon guns. nursed children of Hollywood

        Well, this is not such an idea and is fantastic with a laser; back in 1981 the A-60 aircraft made its first flight.
        1. Andrei from Chelyabinsk
          Andrei from Chelyabinsk 21 December 2015 17: 19 New
          +4
          Quote: Lt. Air Force stock
          Well, not such an idea and fantastic with a laser

          Fantastic :)))) the laser consumes so many "energizers" that they can be removed only on an Il-76-sized aircraft :)) Moreover, the laser efficiency even in this case is very relative and not suitable for air combat. So, before a colossal breakthrough in the field of energy conservation (ultra-powerful batteries or something like that), you should not think about laser weapons on a fighter
          1. Vladimirets
            Vladimirets 21 December 2015 18: 18 New
            0
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            So before a colossal breakthrough in the field of energy conservation (uber-powerful batteries or something like that)

            It should be a leap of progress akin to flying into space.
            1. mav1971
              mav1971 21 December 2015 19: 55 New
              +1
              Quote: Vladimirets
              Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
              So before a colossal breakthrough in the field of energy conservation (uber-powerful batteries or something like that)

              It should be a leap of progress akin to flying into space.


              The technology of ultra-high-capacity graphene conders is being closely developed.
              Perhaps a bet on them.
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. Bayonet
            Bayonet 22 December 2015 13: 57 New
            +4
            Quote: Andrey from Chelyabinsk
            Fantastic :)))) the laser consumes so many "energizers" that they can only be taken away on an Il-76-sized airplane :))

            What was a miracle yesterday - today causes a smile, what was considered impossible yesterday - today is commonplace smile hi
            (cry)
  2. Griboedoff
    Griboedoff 21 December 2015 06: 59 New
    18
    Sorry, I don’t believe in the laser as the weapon of a fighter in the 6th generation. Yes, it can become an element of air defense, perhaps it will be used on large aircraft. But on the fighter ... The laser still does not provide ranges comparable to long-range missiles. And stick it only for the sake of defense and melee attacks ... I do not think that within fifty years it will become so simple and cheap. IMHO
    1. bootlegger
      bootlegger 21 December 2015 10: 11 New
      +1
      After all, progress does not stand still. Laser pointers, capable of blinding the crew of the aircraft and igniting paper, would also seem to me a miracle of technology in the 80s.
      It is not necessary to replace missiles; it will be quite enough if they replace, or at least duplicate, the cumbersome and limited ammunition of the fighter’s cannon armament.
      A modern fighter is not only a huge number of all-round video cameras, but also opto-electronic recognition systems. Using such systems with a laser, the plane went blind and at least lost its combat effectiveness in close combat.
      And imagine that they will still be equipped with automatic guidance systems in a fairly wide angle.
      1. Griboedoff
        Griboedoff 21 December 2015 10: 23 New
        +5
        Quote: bootlegger
        if they replace, or at least duplicate, the bulky and limited ammunition fighter cannon weapons

        Bulky? Compared to the laser, which it can be in the short term, cannon weapons are compact and efficient. A too powerful source of energy is needed for the laser. And while there are no particular prospects for the appearance of such a source on a fighter. On large military vessels, it is difficult to power it. And what can we say about the fighter, which has very stringent mass requirements.
        1. bootlegger
          bootlegger 21 December 2015 10: 43 New
          0
          Quote: Griboedoff
          And while there are no particular prospects for the appearance of such a source on a fighter.

          An engine, why not such a source? The AL-31F M3 power for the SU 27th is about 16 MW. There 300-400 kilowatts can be easily removed and the pilot will not notice a loss of thrust. Considering the indicated efficiency, 33% is about 100 kW at the laser output. Such installations in factories cut 20 mm steel sheets. Such a device, if it doesn’t damage the hull, will blind the pilot and burns all the optical sensors.
          1. FID
            FID 21 December 2015 13: 40 New
            +5
            Quote: bootlegger
            Such installations in factories cut 20 mm steel sheets. Such a device, if it does not damage the case, will blind the pilot and burn all optical sensors.

            Did you forget about the distance ... 20 mm for cutting steel and ...? Plus clouds, fog, smoke emitted from the aircraft (remember the smoke bombs on tanks that make laser guidance difficult). A battle laser in space, wherever it went, but in the atmosphere ???
          2. The comment was deleted.
          3. Locksmith
            Locksmith 21 December 2015 19: 45 New
            +1
            Quote: bootlegger
            Such installations in factories cut 20 mm steel sheets.

            From a distance of 10 cm, even a textolite for such a laser can’t get into the head-kirdyk’s head right away — as you correctly noticed from the fumes. And for long-range shooting the laser needs to be focused — this pulls the focusing system right away and the further the larger the lens \ mirror = flying telescope -This will be a sighting system for the "diagnosis" of the atmosphere, otherwise zilch.
          4. lovely
            lovely 22 December 2015 21: 41 New
            0
            the aircraft engine twists the generator, but is intended for thrust itself. In machines, all for the sake of efficiency and what are their dimensions and weight? You can’t get into the air with such a bandura. Here we put the fifth generation on the wing, there and see what will happen in the world))
        2. Just BB
          Just BB 21 December 2015 13: 49 New
          +2
          As long as the cherished sword remains 1 kg of generator weight per 1 kW of generated power, about lasers - this is from the literature of fiction, especially on a fighter
          1. bootlegger
            bootlegger 21 December 2015 19: 27 New
            +1
            Admire ...
            http://www.klimov.ru/production/aircraft/apu/
            1. sharp-lad
              sharp-lad 21 December 2015 23: 40 New
              +1
              This power source is not a laser, but an energy storage system for it. But thanks anyway for the information, it was interesting to see the real offer. laughing
            2. The comment was deleted.
            3. Just BB
              Just BB 22 December 2015 04: 57 New
              0
              What, excuse me, to admire?
              This mass is just an engine !!!
              And he is 120 hp can give to the generator drive, which is not part of this installation !!!
              in addition to the generator relies on control and regulation equipment
    2. Lt. Air Force stock
      Lt. Air Force stock 21 December 2015 11: 32 New
      +1
      Quote: Griboedoff
      Sorry, I don’t believe in the laser as the weapon of a fighter in the 6th generation. Yes, it can become an element of air defense, perhaps it will be used on large aircraft.

      Most importantly, if you still succeed in installing the laser on a fighter, then over-maneuverability as an advantage will disappear. You will not need to maneuver while avoiding a missile attack, the laser will destroy the missiles approaching the aircraft. In close combat, you also won’t need to play little salads, turning the aircraft to try to hit the enemy’s tail, it will be enough to approach the enemy and the laser guns will hit the enemy.
      1. Pajamas
        Pajamas 21 December 2015 18: 00 New
        +1
        Quote: Lt. Air Force stock
        Quote: Griboedoff
        Sorry, I don’t believe in the laser as the weapon of a fighter in the 6th generation. Yes, it can become an element of air defense, perhaps it will be used on large aircraft.

        Most importantly, if you still succeed in installing the laser on a fighter, then over-maneuverability as an advantage will disappear. You will not need to maneuver while avoiding a missile attack, the laser will destroy the missiles approaching the aircraft. In close combat, you also won’t need to play little salads, turning the aircraft to try to hit the enemy’s tail, it will be enough to approach the enemy and the laser guns will hit the enemy.

        And if rockets maneuver, then your installation is a laser turret? maybe two? So maneuverability is no longer needed and low visibility is gone - well, since we have a laser all-angle. Let’s immediately - the anti-gravity platform, and hypersound does not need a laser, but a fast whack and 1000 km of lupanul, correctly the 6th generation is not for you, you give lasers and airships, and that maneuverability is not needed, stealth too, speed in figs, the main thing "lazy" yes more, more.
      2. Locksmith
        Locksmith 21 December 2015 19: 48 New
        0
        Quote: Lt. Air Force stock
        You will not need to maneuver while avoiding a missile attack, the laser will destroy the missiles approaching the aircraft.

        When an adequate laser rocket appears, at this point it will have ablation protection, and again a zilch laser, or a laser based on other principles, such as a neutron and with a power of 1 TW per pulse, then yes, kirdyk rocket ... wink
    3. Civil
      Civil 21 December 2015 18: 09 New
      +1
      Quote: Griboedoff
      Sorry, I don’t believe in the laser as the weapon of a fighter in the 6th generation. Yes, it can become an element of air defense, perhaps it will be used on large aircraft. But on the fighter ... The laser still does not provide ranges comparable to long-range missiles. And stick it only for the sake of defense and melee attacks ... I do not think that within fifty years it will become so simple and cheap. IMHO

      Well dk, before they did not believe that the earth was round, that the Varyag Chinese would put into operation that the drones of the Russian army were needed ... or would you have enough hats for everyone?
      1. Pajamas
        Pajamas 21 December 2015 18: 24 New
        0
        Quote: Civil
        Quote: Griboedoff
        Sorry, I don’t believe in the laser as the weapon of a fighter in the 6th generation. Yes, it can become an element of air defense, perhaps it will be used on large aircraft. But on the fighter ... The laser still does not provide ranges comparable to long-range missiles. And stick it only for the sake of defense and melee attacks ... I do not think that within fifty years it will become so simple and cheap. IMHO

        Well dk, before they did not believe that the earth was round, that the Varyag Chinese would put into operation that the drones of the Russian army were needed ... or would you have enough hats for everyone?

        Yes, many still do not believe in the death star, and already 7 documentaries came out. In China, in Shaolin, monks emit Rays of Good.
  3. inkass_98
    inkass_98 21 December 2015 07: 25 New
    +3
    But what about the unmanned concept of the 6 generation? On projects clearly manned vehicles. It is precisely the refusal of the pilot’s presence in the cockpit to help realize many of the ideas, since there is no need to take care of live stuffing: increase permissible overloads, remove life support systems, an ejection seat and all that. And laser weapons on such an airplane are still fairy tales. Close, perhaps to practical implementation, but still too capricious and expensive toys.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 21 December 2015 10: 14 New
      0
      For a sixth generation fighter, the computer will be the co-pilot, but in the future - after 15 years something similar will begin to appear.
    2. Lt. Air Force stock
      Lt. Air Force stock 21 December 2015 11: 46 New
      0
      Quote: inkass_98
      what about the 6th generation unmanned concept?

      Poghosyan seemed to say that Russia is developing the 6th generation so that the aircraft can fly in both manned and unmanned mode.
  4. Nitarius
    Nitarius 21 December 2015 08: 19 New
    0
    Than a flying saucer ... not a 6th generation airplane! ??
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 21 December 2015 10: 16 New
      0
      Sophisticated design and management.
  5. Falcon
    Falcon 21 December 2015 08: 48 New
    +2
    Boeing has a low visibility aircraft with PGO in the picture. laughing Oh well...
    It looks like the pictures are far from real projects
  6. vadimtt
    vadimtt 21 December 2015 09: 38 New
    0
    Something in the art did not see the place where the laser gun stands. Although it looks like a cabin bully
    Well, as for the 6th generation - with a high degree of probability these are drones with hypersonic melee missiles and artillery / gauss weapons - the meaning in melee with overloads of 15-30g is not accessible to people. And as a side effect - all modern air defense systems go through the forest even without a stealth.
    1. 0255
      0255 21 December 2015 11: 49 New
      +1
      Quote: vadimtt
      Something in the art did not see the place where the laser gun stands. Although it looks like a cabin bully

      Maybe these pictures have nothing to do with real projects, nobody will upload real projects to the network.
    2. forumow
      forumow 27 December 2015 21: 01 New
      0
      In the cockpit sits X-Men with a laser look!
  7. Stiletto
    Stiletto 21 December 2015 10: 01 New
    +2
    I, too, I remember, in the lessons at school at the back desk, I liked to "imagine" something like that. Let's see what happens in practice ...
  8. afrikanez
    afrikanez 21 December 2015 10: 14 New
    -1
    Yes, let them design. what they want! Our aviation of the 4th generation perfectly copes with its tasks, and these are already taken over in the 6th generation. They would have mastered 5! fool
    1. Dimon19661
      Dimon19661 21 December 2015 10: 47 New
      +1
      They are armed with two types of 5th generation fighters. Do not know ??? not ...
    2. Felix2
      Felix2 21 December 2015 10: 49 New
      +1
      Quote: afrikanez
      Yes, let them design. what they want! Our aviation of the 4th generation perfectly copes with its tasks, and these are already taken over in the 6th generation. They would have mastered 5! fool




      Our aviation of the 4th generation has not yet joined the 5th, not to mention the 6th.
  9. Vadim237
    Vadim237 21 December 2015 10: 19 New
    0
    Concept, not concept - the United States will overtake us in creating the sixth generation fighter.
  10. lotar
    lotar 21 December 2015 10: 47 New
    +1
    Since near space is likely to be militarized, the appearance of systems near space action is likely. It is quite possible that this will be realized in the concept of the 6 generation fighter. What seems to us to be fantastic in the future will become quite ordinary The fact that in the case of implementing this concept the fighter will increase in size will no longer be surprising. No wonder everything depends on the size, in this case this project will already be an aerospace fighter, and it should already be et and any appropriate power available.
    1. Fast_mutant
      Fast_mutant 22 December 2015 03: 48 New
      +1
      However, the trend:
      la-5 2800 kg
      Mig-15 3247 kg
      Mig-21 5460 kg
      Mig-29 10900 kg
      su-27 16300 kg
      su-30 18800 kg
      B-29 32400 (for spawn)
      I understand that sou and moment are a different class, but I consider them as "basic" at the current time. So it’s quite a tendency, by the way the instant has cars 25 and 31 and they are not much lighter than the “main” workhorses! )). Therefore, I won’t be surprised if in 30 years the fighter will weigh like a “centennial” strategic bomber. By the way, with comparable damage done ...
  11. Dimon19661
    Dimon19661 21 December 2015 10: 48 New
    -1
    And I remember they wanted to do unmanned ones. I wonder what the price will be.
  12. podgornovea
    podgornovea 21 December 2015 11: 40 New
    0
    Quote: inkass_98
    But what about the unmanned concept of the 6 generation? On projects clearly manned vehicles. It is precisely the refusal of the pilot’s presence in the cockpit to help realize many of the ideas, since there is no need to take care of live stuffing: increase permissible overloads, remove life support systems, an ejection seat and all that. And laser weapons on such an airplane are still fairy tales. Close, perhaps to practical implementation, but still too capricious and expensive toys.


    What are the overloads of an aircraft the size of a small B-2 bomber? On such a carcass, life support systems no longer critically affect the total weight
    1. manguest
      manguest 21 December 2015 12: 05 New
      0
      The issue of overloads is just a matter of principle, this plane will have to maneuver at other speeds, the overloads can go up to 20-30, which, especially for the pilot, can reset maneuverability. What will be the body kit question two, the lasers are somehow cinema.
  13. Lt. Air Force stock
    Lt. Air Force stock 21 December 2015 11: 43 New
    0
    The increase in the size of fighters is predicted by Boeing Corporation, which presented its F / A-XX concept back in 2013.

    The dimensions are likely to increase to a greater extent due to the need for a long flight range and basic supersonic (it will take a lot of fuel) than because of the large amount of weapons. Most likely we are talking about 16-24 internal suspension points. Given that the US is striving to minimize size, this is entirely possible. The CUDA air-to-air missile under development will carry out kinetic interception of targets, in length it will be half that of the Amraam-120 (although the diameter will be larger), SDB bombs are miniature, and it is quite possible to place them in such a quantity.
    Here are just hypersonic missiles are unlikely to be miniature, but they will not need to be used from an airplane at close range on ground targets.
  14. avva2012
    avva2012 21 December 2015 12: 13 New
    0
    Ah, I liked it: 1.on it should have a large flight range, since airbases are not always located at a fairly close distance from the borders of a likely enemy.
    How much distance do we have to the USA? Or will they again say that they are against Iran, they are preparing it?
  15. pavelty
    pavelty 21 December 2015 12: 35 New
    +1
    It seems that this is a rather strange translation of different materials ...
  16. Lord of Wrath
    Lord of Wrath 21 December 2015 13: 12 New
    -1
    I suspect that 6 and future generations will be unmanned.
    The challenge for our trophies in Syria is to get the engine from the raptor. The engine with "economical" fuel consumption at supersonic is now simply necessary for both aviation and rocket science
    1. FID
      FID 21 December 2015 13: 43 New
      0
      Quote: Lord of Wrath
      The engine with "economical" fuel consumption at supersonic is now simply necessary for both aviation and rocket science

      Rocket science here ??? Economical rocket engine ???
    2. The comment was deleted.
  17. alexej123
    alexej123 21 December 2015 13: 57 New
    -1
    In my opinion, the next "scheme" of obtaining funding from the pentagon.
  18. Gunther
    Gunther 21 December 2015 14: 25 New
    0
    Quote: bootlegger
    Quote: Griboedoff
    And while there are no particular prospects for the appearance of such a source on a fighter.

    Engine than not so source? Power AL-31F M3 for SU 27th about 16 MW. There 300-400 kilowatts can be easily removed and the pilot will not notice a loss of thrust. Considering the indicated efficiency, 33% is about 100 kW at the laser output. Such installations in factories cut 20 mm steel sheets. Such a device, if it doesn’t damage the hull, will blind the pilot and burns all the optical sensors.

    How do you imagine "taking" 300-400 kilowatts from the engine and pumping the laser?
    The use of a laser is limited by the optical properties of the medium, so missiles (guns) should be discounted early.
    1. Just BB
      Just BB 21 December 2015 15: 03 New
      0
      That is the nail that the turbojet engine does not generate electricity! And a generator of such power + a drive is no longer a fighter
    2. Vadim237
      Vadim237 21 December 2015 16: 07 New
      0
      By the principle of an electric generator.
  19. linen
    linen 21 December 2015 15: 01 New
    -2
    This is NOT a 6th generation fighter! This is the 6th generation TARGET !!!!!
  20. uzer 13
    uzer 13 21 December 2015 18: 36 New
    +2
    If you push everything you want into this fighter, it will be bigger than a bomber. Dreaming is not harmful. First you need to make the 6th generation engines, compact, light, with great traction and not consuming a lot of fuel. Further weapons, electronics, construction materials, etc. - and all of the 6th generation. And there is not enough money even for the maintenance of the F-22. I am afraid that it will take a long time to wait until the fake statement turns into a real aircraft.
  21. voyaka uh
    voyaka uh 21 December 2015 19: 05 New
    +1
    The real laser capabilities will be tested already at the 5th generation.
    And it will become clear that they will put on the 6th.

    They plan to deliver the laser both on the F-35 (for intercepting explosive and missile launchers),
    and on the Avenger UAV (for strikes on the ground).
    1. psiho117
      psiho117 22 December 2015 02: 02 New
      -1
      Quote: voyaka uh
      The real laser capabilities will be tested already at the 5th generation.
      And it will become clear that they will put on the 6th.

      They plan to deliver the laser both on the F-35 (for intercepting explosive and missile launchers),
      and on the Avenger UAV (for strikes on the ground).

      Yes Yes Yes...
      I remember that a year ago you all convinced us that the lasers on the border with the Gaza Strip were about to enter combat duty, they were knocking everything down, and other blah blah. However, just as the “Dome” worked with missiles, it continues.
      Quiz question: where is the promised laser ? !!
      1. voyaka uh
        voyaka uh 22 December 2015 15: 39 New
        +2
        I wrote that he would take up combat duty in 2016.
        While we are in 2015. Bear with a little. smile
  22. Приговор
    Приговор 21 December 2015 19: 16 New
    -2
    They are the fifth generation to the mind and can not bring an acceptable price ...
  23. NIKNN
    NIKNN 21 December 2015 20: 48 New
    +3
    It will happen, it won’t happen, after 20 or 40 years it’s essentially not important. It is necessary to deal with these problems, otherwise it will not happen. request
  24. Denimax
    Denimax 21 December 2015 21: 57 New
    0
    Quote: Good cat
    Straight star wars ....

    Now there’s a real boom in star wars. The seventh part dedicated to Christmas came out, and there the gifts are clear ... And then the military apparently also decided to stick. smile
  25. denkastro
    denkastro 21 December 2015 22: 34 New
    0
    And my amateurish thinking tells me that a real 6th generation plane (or aircraft) already exists or was (whatever you like) and this is Buran. In new conditions and with new technologies, it can bring a lot of noise. And by the way, I read somewhere- the fact that by the 6th generation uninhabitability will be presented in the technical specifications, and this is another plus in the Buran piggy bank. Oh dreams, dreams.
    1. sharp-lad
      sharp-lad 21 December 2015 23: 48 New
      0
      Yeah, Americans like PR on the background of the skin of an unkilled bear! laughing What they indicated in the TTX draws only on the 5+ generation and nothing more. And from their lasers a surface polished to shine with a heat redistribution system will help.
    2. mav1971
      mav1971 22 December 2015 07: 17 New
      0
      Quote: denkastro
      And my amateurish thinking tells me that the real plane (or aircraft) of the 6 generation is already there or was (to whom it is more convenient) and this is Buran.


      look at the takeoffs of Buran and the plane.

      Compare the area, the cost of materials, labor.

      Then it will become clear to you. that one cannot compare a horse and a quivering doe.
  26. leon1204id
    leon1204id 21 December 2015 23: 44 New
    0
    Very well, let them pump dollars from their budget. And we (as always) will go the other way. The whole fairy tale of such planes is invisible. Even B2 pilots remembered this during sorties. It’s worth finding such a device and it’s almost doomed, especially when near we’ll not have time to make a fuss. So, we just have to find a reliable way to recognize them. We’ll act like the Terminator. We’ll put a third shepherd pilot in the fighter. smile wassat
  27. surrozh
    surrozh 22 December 2015 05: 26 New
    +1
    The fantastic cost of new materials, developments, technological solutions will lead to three aircraft in the United States, two in China and one in Russia. There’s not enough money for more.
  28. wild
    wild 22 December 2015 09: 45 New
    0
    Bullshit from the Pentagon’s contractors, we have students and they paint more pictures and judging by them we are already developing the 9 generation.
  29. Dekabrev
    Dekabrev 22 December 2015 23: 04 New
    0
    Well yes. In my opinion these are funny pictures. But, the fact that they are so stubborn about lasers taldychut may mean that they know something like that, which we do not know. After all, they all the time are doing some research and development. (this is what we call the budget cut). Importantly, note that as soon as they launched the fifth generation, they immediately took up the sixth. So, I will report to you - this is, my sirs, the normal correct approach. And until we understand this, we will be catching up with life. And this is the right approach not only in military equipment and not only in aviation. By the way, note that the Russian Academy had a decent number of institutes with decent scientists, including beyond the Urals. However, the money didn’t go there, but in Skolkovo, because if you give the money to scientists, they will spend it abnormally on some research, and it is necessary to deal with cutting not outside the Urals, but near Moscow, and that there would be no scientists nearby. Skolkovo is proud to have opened an accounting school, sorry, NBA school. In general, money was allocated for science and development. Ai, most importantly, we all expect from scientists new tanks and aircraft. Sorry, scientists do not make tanks, tanks do at factories, and scientists can investigate as much as they like, but if they saw the results in a coffin, then we will never see aircraft, tanks and new civilian equipment. By the way, the development of production, as a rule, requires much more funding than research and development.
  30. Glad
    Glad 23 December 2015 18: 34 New
    0
    As Tom Weiss, president of aerospace systems, noted, under normal conditions, lasers operate with an efficiency of 33 percent.


    Oh, I have these Americans. What can’t you say to “shake” money from the budget. In fact, 33% is the efficiency of an artillery gun, which has been improving for about 800 years. Then it turns out that we misunderstood Mr. Weiss. He meant that the efficiency of lasers is 3,3%. Well, I lost a comma, with whom it does not happen.
    That is, if by efficiency he meant exactly efficiency ...
  31. Yak28
    Yak28 23 December 2015 22: 11 New
    0
    And what is the invisibility of 5 generation aircraft? For example, if a 4-generation aircraft MIG-29, SU30 or F15 and so on, or the S-300 air defense system and its foreign counterparts, can take aim and destroy the F-22 or F-35, then where is invisibility. And what then is the meaning of the hemorrhoids design, with weapons hidden in the case. Even Mig21 or 23 with modern missiles and a radar is thought, it can bring quite a stir
  32. Glad
    Glad 24 December 2015 00: 07 New
    0
    Quote: Yak28
    And what is the invisibility of 5 generation aircraft? For example, if a 4-generation aircraft MIG-29, SU30 or F15 and so on, or the S-300 air defense system and its foreign counterparts, can take aim and destroy the F-22 or F-35, then where is invisibility. And what then is the meaning of the hemorrhoids design, with weapons hidden in the case. Even Mig21 or 23 with modern missiles and a radar is thought, it can bring quite a stir

    If I don’t confuse anything, then invisibility consists mainly of three things.
    1 - The contours of the fuselage and other structural elements are designed in such a way that the back reflection of EM energy incident on the aircraft from the enemy radar is minimal. This makes it possible for the same F-22 to see (and therefore use weapons) earlier than it does, for example, the same MiG-29, not to mention the MiG-23.
    2 - There is a radar absorbing coating that dampens the incident EM wave. However, the coating works well if its thickness is comparable to the radar wavelength. The shorter the wavelength, the finer the coating. And since the wavelength is directly dependent on the physical dimensions of the radiating antenna, the coating works better against active GOS missiles “air-to-air” and “ground-to-air” (you can’t shove a large antenna into the rocket’s body). Simply put, even if an airborne radar detected a target, the missile seeker cannot capture it at that range that ensures its launch before the adversary is launched.
    3 - The design of the aircraft provides less thermal radiation than aircraft of the 4th generation. At the same time, the maneuverability of the machine is sacrificed to small radiation. The same F-22 nozzles are flat. This provides a lower temperature of the outgoing gases, but does not make it possible to provide the same maneuverability that our engines can provide by changing the thrust vector.

    So, it’s not a matter of invisibility as such, but of the possibility for a 5th generation aircraft to use their weapons earlier than the enemy will use them.

    I hope that colleagues who are professionally engaged in radar and other detection systems will correct me if I made a mistake somewhere.
  33. Dekabrev
    Dekabrev 24 December 2015 23: 38 New
    0
    I think that people who understand, understand perfectly well that a device with an effective dispersion area is orders of magnitude lower than that of an adversary, this is very serious. And from here, the PAK FA USA now has hundreds of such devices and we must face it. The United States now has the superiority in fighter aircraft over Russia the same as Germany in the forty-first. Thank God that the Russian leadership understands this and is urgently trying to bring PAK FA to production. No need to fool yourself, the beautiful super-maneuverable flying vehicle Su-27 and its modifications are guaranteed to bring down the F-22 in close combat, if such a miracle happens and they can get close to it at close range.
    1. bve56
      bve56 24 January 2016 13: 30 New
      +1
      stupid! They can’t bring anything to mind ... F-22 abandoned. F-35 - an incomprehensible stool, which is even slower than the Su-34 attack aircraft, to say nothing of the Su-35s fighter, which the Chinese began to buy .... Canadians stopped f-2015 funding in 35, apparently wiser. Poor speed, low maneuverability, huge cost and solid PR!
      The funny thing is that the cruising speed of the F-35 is like the cruising speed of the old passenger IL-86. What a madhouse! You can check all this data on the wiki.

      ps speed f35 to 1700 km / h, su-34 to 1900, for su-35 to 2500 km / h. Cruising at f35 - 850 km / h, at the passenger IL-86 870 km / h))) All this is somehow silly! By the way, Sukhoi Design Bureau plans to raise the bar for speeds above 4000 km / h ... so the F-35 will have to chase passenger liners. One empty PR from America. Apparently Canadians are smarter than Europeans, managed to remove the "noodles". It would be easier for the Americans to equip the usual Boeing with technology and not to fool anyone .... the avionics of fighters have been lousy for half a century ...

      Serge Babkov
  34. Chidoryan
    Chidoryan 6 January 2016 16: 27 New
    0
    I want to remind you that during World War I they laughed at the first tanks. A miserable slow tin can. So it is here. With drones and lasers. All of our brother’s jokes and jokes about cutting Amer’s budget. Never say never. I’m sure scientists and engineers will come up with something. Fortunately for the Americans, their science is generously funded.
  35. gvozdan
    gvozdan 6 February 2016 21: 41 New
    0
    If there are lasers capable of replacing at least an aircraft gun and compact ones (with the whole stray) so that they fit in the fighter, and even can shoot more than once every half an hour, then nothing will fly in the sky. These guns will stand on the ground on stationary power an order of magnitude more powerful and chop everything flying from flies to bombers. Or all planes will sharply become mirrored and with active cooling of the skin (such a MiG-31 polished in a mirror).

    At the expense of hypersonic speeds. It sounds great, but it’s not clear why does this aircraft need this speed? Missiles will always overtake aircraft. RVV R-37 has a speed of 6M. S-500 promise to intercept the target at a speed of 7 km / s and this is 7 * 3600 = 25200 km / h and this is in the region of 23-24M. Developments are of course needed in this area for defense against ICBMs. But that plane is nonsense. And if it’s some kind of unmanned glider, then it’s not a plane anymore, but a missile and intercontinental along the way. In this case, a satellite (spaceship) with weapons on board will be much better.

    On the other hand, between 4 and 5 generations 30-40 years have passed, the 5 generation has not even really participated anywhere else. Of the finished only f22. What will happen in 30 years, maybe nothing will happen at all, the nuclear desert and a few survivors.

    Why do we need this 6th generation fighter ??? To bend all with impunity, dk will not work. Throughout history, mankind is looking for the perfect weapon with which to bend everyone, has not yet been found. You can safely recognize the ICBM fighter of the 6th generation and calm down. Because after the destruction of the infrastructure, all fighters will end in a couple of hours. Yes, and there will be no one to defend and attack and for nothing.