Military Review

The Russian Defense Ministry announced significant damage to the recorder of the bomber Su-24 shot down in Syria

193
The country's main defense department published information about significant damage to the black box of a Russian bomber shot down by Turkish air force fighters in the sky over Syria. Of the eight chips on one of the boards, as experts say, three are damaged, which may not allow a complete decryption of the information on the flight recorder. At the same time, it is noted that the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation attracts specialists from various countries of the world to decoding. AT aviation The committee has already invited experts from 14 states. The consent to take part in the decryption has so far been expressed by representatives of Britain and China.


RIA News cites a statement by Colonel Andrey Semyonov, an official representative of the Aviation Safety Department:

All of you see that, unfortunately, the boards are a bit destroyed. Now we will make the separation of these two boards and are ready to make an x-ray control. The chairman of the commission reports that during the external examination it has been established that a deformation of the boards has occurred. On the top board, 3 of 8 chips are damaged with chips, visible to the naked eye, which indicates that there is no flight information on them. X-rays can detect damage and cracks on all 16 module chips.


The Russian Defense Ministry announced significant damage to the recorder of the bomber Su-24 shot down in Syria


According to Colonel Semyonov, information about 20 flight hours is usually stored in the memory module. According to the aviation committee, the last flight of the Russian bomber Su-24M lasted about 40 minutes.

Materials have already appeared in the Turkish media that damage to flight recorders "could have been inflicted in the Russian Defense Ministry itself so that the world community would not receive reliable information."

Recall that earlier, the official Ankara refused to apologize and pay damages for the downed aircraft.
Photos used:
http://lifenews.ru
193 comments
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  1. Sasha 19871987
    Sasha 19871987 18 December 2015 13: 54
    +4
    the main thing is that there is information from the last flight ... erdoganchik, wait for the feed ... soon ... and the lie will not save you ...
    1. Nevsky_ZU
      Nevsky_ZU 18 December 2015 13: 58
      21
      Materials have already appeared in the Turkish media that damage to flight recorders "could have been inflicted in the Russian Defense Ministry itself so that the world community would not receive reliable information."

      Who would doubt their inferiority. fool
      1. meriem1
        meriem1 18 December 2015 14: 00
        +5
        Quote: Nevsky_ZU
        Materials have already appeared in the Turkish media that damage to flight recorders "could have been inflicted in the Russian Defense Ministry itself so that the world community would not receive reliable information."

        Who would doubt their inferiority. fool


        This is not inferiority! It's called differently! Under the cameras disassembled in the presence of an international commission. HOW could the Ministry of Defense itself cause damage ??? The language is not at all friendly with the head.
        1. The comment was deleted.
        2. _Vladislav_
          _Vladislav_ 18 December 2015 14: 33
          +2
          Turks - after they shot down a Russian plane

          https://twitter.com/ziyaturp/status/669079147629715456/video/1
        3. Zoldat_A
          Zoldat_A 18 December 2015 14: 59
          12
          Quote: meriem1
          HOW could the Ministry of Defense itself cause damage ??? The language is not at all friendly with the head.

          earlier, official Ankara refused to apologize and compensate for the downed plane.
          In my opinion, our Ministry of Defense is the last one who needs to hide information about where the plane flew and where it was shot down. Only the Western media will spit poison all the same ...

          And I would advise them to save the poison in order to spit on Ukraine, and at the same time the United States. About the Malaysian Boeing. There are still no records of the pilots' negotiations with the air traffic controllers (and, I think, there never will be any more), and let the United States, which inspired and blessed Ukraine for this "feat", tell me that all their military satellites were not looking at this "Boeing" "... Standing backwards ...

          The flyers once upon a time, when I accidentally witnessed the crash of a training aircraft with the crew, said that in 75% of cases, according to the recordings of conversations of the KDP with the pilots, you can understand what happened. And it was written, at least earlier, only on board, but also on the ground.

          So let the writers save their poison ...

          And I still don't understand what the "compensation" could be ... What? In rubles, dollars or Turkish lira? How much is a stab in the back and our two pilots? ... Who is like, and I would have set a price on their lives in their heads. In turkish. In Turkish downed planes, in sunken Turkish ships ...

          A long time ago I was taught that the price of my life is measured in the number of enemy soldiers destroyed, its objects and units of its equipment. We were brought up in such a way that it would be a shame to give our lives for a randomly blown duval and two random mahmuds sitting peacefully with a hookah behind it. I think that serious troops are being taught that way even now. Therefore, I do not know the price of two lives of pilots in dollars ...
          1. The comment was deleted.
          2. a.hamster55
            a.hamster55 18 December 2015 15: 09
            +2
            On the CDP, according to the order, the following is written to the tape recorder: - negotiations on radio communications on several channels; - negotiations on TLF and hydraulic fracturing intercom; - negotiations between the members of the hydraulic fracturing in the KDP It is also written in KP and UPC. Well, onboard.
        4. clidon
          clidon 18 December 2015 19: 28
          -7
          Who will give guarantees that this is the very recorder, and not dragged from the warehouse? And damage can be done by anything. For example, with a hammer, if you know with what force and where to hit.
          1. Locksmith
            Locksmith 18 December 2015 22: 33
            +1
            Each memory chip has its own address = have it, enough nonsense to carry users damn it already .. am
            1. clidon
              clidon 18 December 2015 22: 46
              0
              And where are the memory chips? How do experts know that these are specifically microcircuits that were on the original box, but there are none. Where is the guarantee against fake?
            2. Locksmith
              Locksmith 18 December 2015 23: 52
              +2
              Quote: Locksmith
              Each memory chip has its own address = have it, enough nonsense to carry users damn it already ..

              Ahaha, Norod apparently thinks that IMEY is damn his personal code of his PERSONAL phone number, I hasten to upset the naive ones — each memory, block or module has its own personal code and address, I called IMEI for simplicity, because we have a different name the essence does not change = this CODED device code and SPECIFIC ADDRESS -if you want to finish. wink
              Well, as usual, it's nice to know turnout passwords laughing
              1. clidon
                clidon 19 December 2015 08: 29
                0
                I know what it is. But I did not understand how your smile-winks and coded address codes answer my question. If both the addresses and device codes (at any levels) are in the same official hands and are secret, then information can be obtained from the same official hands. Unknown certainty. And we are talking about an official venture.
      2. Rrrj
        Rrrj 18 December 2015 14: 06
        -5
        Quote: Nevsky_ZU
        Who would doubt their inferiority.

        Oh yes yes...
        From my experience I’ll say that someone is getting dark here - all this bullshit - their chips have burst - all this garbage is the main thing a whole crystal - and you can read the information.
        And then X-ray analysis for micro-cracks - idiocy - a dirty trick.
        PS. Microchips sooo strong - and even more so military class.
        1. Denis Obukhov
          Denis Obukhov 18 December 2015 14: 12
          26
          Quote: rrrj
          Quote: Nevsky_ZU
          Who would doubt their inferiority.

          Oh yes yes...
          From my experience I’ll say that someone is getting dark here - all this bullshit - their chips have burst - all this garbage is the main thing a whole crystal - and you can read the information.
          And then X-ray analysis for micro-cracks - idiocy - a dirty trick.
          PS. Microchips sooo strong - and even more so military class.




          Parameters are recorded not on boards, but on special wire.
          On boards recording management equipment.
          The wire withstands strong shocks and high temperatures.
          With high probability, the record will be decrypted ALL.
          1. venaya
            venaya 18 December 2015 14: 27
            +1
            Quote: Denis Obukhov
            The wire withstands strong shocks and high temperatures.
            With high probability, the record will be decrypted ALL.

            Here the question still arises that this will require additional and quite considerable time, and only give these crooks a reason to fuss and think up all kinds of fables. They will bustle and accuse of fraud, which is what they actually need in this case.
            1. sssla
              sssla 18 December 2015 14: 54
              +7
              Quote: venaya
              The question still arises here.

              I'm not special BUT I have a question!
              I watched live (and I’m still looking at the photo) on the boards and I think that why it was impossible to fix the same boards in the center with a rack, or pour some kind of easily removable foam that would save (the rack too) from breaking the board and microcircuit, with this a powerful blow or would greatly mitigate the consequences ?? !! Well, yes, designers know better)))
              1. Extraneous
                Extraneous 18 December 2015 16: 11
                +8
                Soft foam with a strong blow will not help much. here the physical law of inertia works. In this case: the boards fixed on four racks, as a result of the strike, bent towards the plane in contact with the ground and burst. Chips, following the same law, sought to tear themselves away from the board, which led to the destruction of their cases. Technology for maintaining the integrity of the insides of the equipment exists. But in this device it is not at all. Saved a lot on production. here is the result.
                Conclusions after this are likely to follow. Yes, they will only add extra costs. Remodeling what is done poorly is always more expensive than doing it right right away.
              2. Vanad
                Vanad 18 December 2015 19: 24
                +2
                The design is generally amateur. Hanging harness, frail getinax board. How could such a thing be put in this box, where is the VP?
                1. Alexander_
                  Alexander_ 18 December 2015 23: 10
                  +4
                  The boards are similar to fiberglass, ordinary. The design is completely stupid, there are no shockproof measures. Hackwork. Framed Commander-in-Chief designers are bad. It is clear that with a large area, microcircuits can easily break during overloads, as well as hard-wired boards. The microcircuits could have installed hundreds of small ones, instead of a few huge ones, and filled it into the compound. Even if part of the small mikruh collapsed, and the mechanical strength of the small mikruh is fundamentally higher, they would retain information.
                2. Locksmith
                  Locksmith 18 December 2015 23: 22
                  0
                  Quote: Vanad
                  frail getinax board.

                  Getinax has not been used in military boards for 30 years smile
          2. Vorchun
            Vorchun 18 December 2015 14: 36
            +7
            Only voice information is written to the wire (radio, intercom exchange).
          3. scientist
            scientist 18 December 2015 14: 53
            13
            Quote: Denis Obukhov
            Parameters are recorded not on boards, but on special wire.

            This voice recorder uses tungsten wire coils.
            Everything is written on crystals here. Although, judging by the photograph, long microcircuits to which wires from onboard equipment are suitable are damaged. Most likely these are ADCs and encryptors. Therefore, it is hoped that the microcircuits with memory are intact, especially since they are backed up three times just in case of damage.
            The only procedure is the X-ray diffraction of microcircuits, for example, with the help of a sufficiently powerful x-ray radiation, all memory registers can be easily reset.
            1. aleks 62 next
              aleks 62 next 18 December 2015 15: 22
              0
              .... Most likely these are ADCs and encryptors. Therefore, it is hoped that the integrated circuits with memory, especially since they are backed up three times just in case of damage ....

              ... It is quite possible .... Just to write to hard memory, you also need to have a digital source (sensors of various parameters) .... And as far as I saw from the video, the instruments in the cockpit are "analog" (mechanics), respectively sensors from the same kitchen .... The plane was created more than 40 years ago and the avionics on it are mostly appropriate ... It does not have a "digital" cockpit .... hi
              1. Vita vko
                Vita vko 18 December 2015 15: 34
                +1
                Quote: aleks 62 next
                And as far as I saw from the video, the devices in the cockpit are "analog" (mechanics), respectively, and sensors from the same kitchen ..

                Quote: scientist
                ADC
                It is an analog-to-digital converter. In such devices, it is always done separately and serves as a security element for the rest of the assembly.
              2. Rus2012
                Rus2012 18 December 2015 18: 43
                -1
                Quote: aleks 62 next
                Just to write to solid memory, you still need to have a digital source (sensors of all kinds of parameters)

                Read here - http://guap.ru/guap/kaf71/meth/5_3.pdf
                so that there is no misunderstanding.
                On the Su-24, everything was digital. And analog ones are redundant. And if there is no number, there are ADCs ...
              3. Locksmith
                Locksmith 18 December 2015 23: 30
                +1
                Quote: aleks 62 next
                . Most likely these are ADCs and encoders.

                Quote: aleks 62 next
                .Quite possible..

                Lord, but why do you need an ADC ?? !! Purely digital recording, read something like Horowitz and Hill laughing , there already in those shaggy years the use of a CODED record was described, NOT AFRAID of losing a PART of the carrier !!
                1. Extraneous
                  Extraneous 19 December 2015 00: 15
                  +1
                  The ADC on this device is. Devices SU-24 analog. Their data is also digitized.
            2. Rrrj
              Rrrj 18 December 2015 15: 48
              +3
              Quote: scientist
              Most likely these are ADCs and encryptors.

              No, these are NAND flash chips in my opinion 48 pin TSOP.
              It seems we have lost all the information.
            3. AlexAl
              AlexAl 18 December 2015 16: 32
              +7
              This is not a recorder - it is the result of the collapse of the great state of Russia.
              This product is the result of the work of the "crazy hands" specialist.
              The photo shows that the memory cards collapsed under the influence of shock loading. Destruction has a large degree at the point of insertion of the wire onto the circuit boards, thereby the wire under the influence of the shock load was an additional mass and, accordingly, this mass caused greater destruction. It follows that this craft was not tested for shock loads, otherwise the military representative would not have accepted such a thing for installation on a military product.
              It would be better if they didn’t find him — they would not be dishonored in front of people.
              In the picture, the right product, which was designed by smart people for people, but what has been done with us is the result of cutting the budget and saving on the remainder of the cut.

              I have no words alone matyuki. For such crafts on exile or to the wall.
              1. AlexAl
                AlexAl 18 December 2015 16: 44
                +2
                The result of impact.
                If something can be counted on the case, then this will be the next Lord's holding !!!
                1. AlexAl
                  AlexAl 18 December 2015 16: 54
                  +3
                  Compare the trace of the printed circuit board crafts of domestic and bourgeois.

                  It can be seen that the domestic one was designed by some "FGUP", with the absence of any ideas and rules for signal propagation and electromagnetic compatibility.

                  Hooray! our Unified State Examination, min education and other miscellaneous MIN. .. -Let's go.
                  But the head coach drive a lot of Mercedes !!!!
                  1. AlexAl
                    AlexAl 18 December 2015 18: 31
                    +6
                    Guys - You at least get angry with anger, but planes do not fly to Urya patriotism.
                    If the obvious things are not obvious to you, I am truly sorry for you. I am not a fan of foreign, but I will not recognize domestic trash.
                    And this recorder is the most trash and an elementary violation of the rules for the design and construction of such products and a gross violation of GOST of both the USSR and Russia.

                    An intelligent person does not take offense at criticism, but "" takes offense at everyone and everything, because he cannot determine what is criticism.

                    On this I take my leave.
                  2. Rus2012
                    Rus2012 18 December 2015 18: 39
                    +4
                    Quote: AlexAl
                    It can be seen that the domestic one was designed by some "FSUE",

                    Dear, the Su-24m uses a flight data recording system of the “Tester-UZ” type.
                    "Tester-UZ ser. 3 »production of OKB" Aviaavtomatika "OJSC" Pribor ", complies with all NLGS and" Moroz "standards. And as you know, our norms are sometimes an order of magnitude higher than MIL
                    So, don’t kill our muin ...
                    1. AlexAl
                      AlexAl 18 December 2015 18: 50
                      +1
                      Aha - the "respectable" result of exceeding the norms is obvious. As for who and who and what is on this plane, I know without you, and about the norms, too, you don't need to poke me at them.
                      Traffic rules are also written and for some violations our standards exceed the traffic rules of other states by an order of magnitude - you probably do not need to explain the result. So, don’t kill our muin ...

                      It is one thing to write rules, and it is another thing to observe them.
                      1. Rus2012
                        Rus2012 18 December 2015 19: 15
                        0
                        Quote: AlexAl
                        Aha - the "respectable" result of exceeding the norms is obvious.

                        that's when the aircraft with a swing. speed almost perpendicularly "cuts" into the ground what are the shock overloads? And what at the same time can be saved according to your "expert of MIL-norms"? negative
                        I don't think you were allowed to see "Frost".

                        Traffic rules and cars are no sideways here! And there is no need to try to divert the topic into empty chatter according to the "training manual"
                      2. AlexAl
                        AlexAl 18 December 2015 21: 45
                        +1
                        Listen dear, not Hami. It's you here with your dear and others climbed. Other planes crash and the data remains intact. Not only that, the fuselage of the aircraft itself is the shock absorber that dampens the force of impact. Do you have a car in an accident that does not reach the trunk when it collides with an obstacle 60 km away?
                        SDA so that knowing the norms and standards, the developer penebreg. I don’t need to jump from a height of 6 km at a speed of 900 km.ch to determine the impact force, I can count it, I was taught this at school. A knowledge of GOST standards frost and other standards including mil std and NASA and vita and other std does not say in any way how to make a particular product, it indicates what should correspond and how to check this.
                        About the training manual, you're cool !!! With your epaulettes just write about it!
                        In short, for now. To argue with "smart people" do not respect yourself.
                      3. Rus2012
                        Rus2012 19 December 2015 02: 00
                        -1
                        Quote: AlexAl
                        knowledge of GOST standards frost and other standards including mil std and NASA and vita and other std does not in any way say how to make a particular product, it indicates what should correspond and how to check this.


                        ... it is not necessary to assume that every henna gets on board without the appropriate GI and MVI throughout the program. Try to add an additional element to the operating equipment simply without a full LI program, "write" it, I'll look at you, smart guy!
                      4. Rus2012
                        Rus2012 19 December 2015 02: 32
                        0
                        Quote: AlexAl
                        To argue with "smart people" do not respect yourself.

                        ... here for this we are banned, by the way!
                2. vik669
                  vik669 18 December 2015 21: 59
                  0
                  So, let's not break the Mui Ne ... and they don't take such spies on the SU-24 there was always the registrar of the Izmeritel enterprise, which was said today, and in Tester-UZ the information is stored on a metal tape.
                  1. Rus2012
                    Rus2012 19 December 2015 01: 56
                    0
                    Quote: vik669
                    of the Izmeritel enterprise, which was said today, and in Tester-UZ the information is stored on a metal tape.


                    Regularly, a Tester-UZ type flight data recording system is installed on the Su-24. The registration system complies with all airworthiness standards, both civilian and military aircraft.
                    Earlier, the “Tester-U3” included a secure magnetic storage device, now - a solid-state secure on-board parametric information storage Bant-32-02.
                    Bow-32-02, is designed to directly replace the 2TB (2Т-ЗМ) unit from the Tester UZ, Tester-M system, while the overall and connecting characteristics are saved, the amount of information stored is increased up to 25 hours, the flight information reading time is significantly reduced.
              2. Vadim237
                Vadim237 18 December 2015 19: 26
                +4
                These black boxes are still made in the USSR.
                1. Rus2012
                  Rus2012 18 December 2015 19: 28
                  +1
                  Quote: Vadim237
                  These black boxes are still made in the USSR.

                  I would say developed. But they could have made it lately ...
        2. Locksmith
          Locksmith 18 December 2015 23: 26
          0
          Quote: scientist
          This voice recorder uses tungsten wire coils.

          Why not with uranium? Sounds much cooler, in general, if the conversation is about magnetic recording, then stopudovo are iron compounds, such as cobalt-nickel-ferrum.
          Not only is tungsten non-magnetic, it also spoils the magnetic structure of the carrier.
        3. Locksmith
          Locksmith 18 December 2015 23: 39
          +1
          Quote: Locksmith
          Most likely these are ADCs and encryptors

          What kind of horseradish is there in the DIGITAL RECORDER of the ADC and the ENCRYPTORS? This is a dumb, very strong memory cell = reasoning in your language, it writes an encoded signal, well, like a stupid flash drive, but with an unrealistically high fool resistance laughing
          Several microcircuits contain all the necessary information flow that can be generated by the board during the CURRENT flight, the flash memory is not only duplicated many times, it also uses interleaved recording, as in modern media = this allows you to restore information using the surviving microcircuits.
        4. 1rl141
          1rl141 19 December 2015 01: 24
          0
          Somehow we carried out a special check of computer equipment. Just with an X-ray machine. On the boards, which were "knocked out" by X-ray, there were memory microcircuits with firmware. As the saying goes, "not a single animal was harmed during the filming." After a special check and assembly of the equipment to its original state, everything worked flawlessly. And at the airport, no one has yet complained that information from the "memory" of various devices has disappeared.
          So no registers will be reset to zero. But the state of the microcircuit can really be determined. And to understand what can be done with her next.
      3. The comment was deleted.
      4. a.hamster55
        a.hamster55 18 December 2015 15: 13
        +4
        Only voice information was written to the wire - such an MS tape recorder. What drives I do not know now is old.
      5. aleks 62 next
        aleks 62 next 18 December 2015 15: 16
        +5
        ..... Parameters are recorded not on boards, but on special wire ...

        .... Actually, the parameters are recorded (made) on film (photo) - it is SARPP-12, and on magnetic tape (as in a tape recorder) - it is MSRP-64 ..... The numbers in the abbreviation are the number of recorded parameters .... The SPEECH recorder works on the wire ..... Something like that .... hi
      6. region58
        region58 18 December 2015 17: 07
        +2
        Quote: Denis Obukhov
        Parameters are recorded not on boards, but on special wire.

        Recently, flash memory is widely used.
        Quote: rrrj
        all this garbage - the main thing is the whole crystal - and you can read the information.

        There is a crack somewhere along the edge, the crystal seems to be whole, but the trouble is, how can I get to it? Compound flooded everything. Very problematic.
        PS I had no business with recorders, but I had seen enough on other equipment - beaten, burned, and flooded. and all ...
        PPS I didn’t. Everything has already been put on the shelves ... I beg your pardon ...
      7. iouris
        iouris 18 December 2015 17: 18
        +7
        The flash drive stores parametric information. Microcircuits, most likely Taiwanese, do not correspond to the military standard of the MIL series (consumer goods). The drive was developed in the Russian Federation. The Soviet Su-24s were equipped with Tester-type drives, it seems 2 series. The last 3 hours were saved. The recording method is a digital 8-bit code. The carrier is cold rolled tape. Even if the medium was destroyed, the information was recovered with a high probability. The disadvantage is a long time for rewriting flight information (almost equal to the duration of preparation for a re-flight).
        Modern storage, essno, with high probability does not save emergency information. In the case of mechanical destruction of the microcircuit, information cannot be restored. According to the law of a sandwich, the chip on which the last flight is destroyed. It is advisable to use such a drive as operational.
        Radio communication was recorded on a metal wire (on-board recorder MS-61).
        SARPP-12 was recorded on film. On magnetic tape - BSRPD type MSRP-12, -64, -256 (transport and passenger aircraft and helicopters).
        1. Rus2012
          Rus2012 18 December 2015 19: 10
          +2
          Quote: iouris
          The flash drive stores parametric information. The microcircuits, most likely Taiwanese, do not correspond to the military standard of the MIL series (consumer goods). The drive was developed in the Russian Federation. The Soviet Su-24s were equipped with Tester-type drives, it seems 2 series. The last 3 hours were saved.

          nifiga!
          Standard on Su24 was Tester -UZ ser. 3 (magnetic media, photo below).
          The info of the last 20 hours is saved.

          But, what’s in the photo in the article is a type of solid-state ZBN - a protected on-board drive.

          Do you know the difference between Milovskaya and consumer goods? That's right - by sampling. T.ch. with the right approach, suitable ones are easily selected from consumer goods. All you need to do is select each chip ...
      8. Locksmith
        Locksmith 18 December 2015 22: 45
        0
        Quote: Denis Obukhov
        Parameters are recorded not on boards, but on special wire.

        The memory chips are obviously shown here, it is clear that the info is duplicated, I guess that it is no worse than the stream of the CD, with its famous Reed-Solomon code that recovers the lost bits, and certainly, the info is recorded with interleaving, which allows you to remove 50% of the media after loss, 100% information, really hope !! laughing
      9. Locksmith
        Locksmith 18 December 2015 22: 53
        0
        Quote: Denis Obukhov
        The wire withstands strong shocks and high temperatures.

        Typically, in magnetically soft materials, the Curie point is not high, no more than 160 degrees — this point directly guarantees us the loss of the magnetic properties of the wire (read the loss of information), well, there are also such rarely used cataclysms as: passage through a high-intensity magnetic field (a nuclear explosion nearby), falling into the area where a powerful magnet is located laughing
    2. Oleg14774
      Oleg14774 18 December 2015 14: 18
      +4
      Quote: rrrj
      PS. Microchips sooo strong - and even more so military class.

      the fact that the military microcircuits are very strong, no doubt, but the old woman also has a bungle!
      1. Rrrj
        Rrrj 18 December 2015 15: 50
        +1
        Quote: Oleg147741
        the fact that the military microcircuits are very strong, no doubt, but the old woman also has a bungle!

        I watched the video - it’s tin - they seem to have been filled with varnish yet - that is, they burst from deformation, if they were not filled, then they would simply fly off the board.
    3. T-73
      T-73 18 December 2015 14: 22
      +3
      They showed it live on Russia24, yes, they took it apart under cameras, 4 pieces said they were standing around the perimeter. Slowly opened and pulled out
      Quote: rrrj
      their chips burst - all this garbage is the main thing the whole crystal - and you can read the information

      burst, and boards and microcircuits, three at least, but this is only on one side of the board. The phrase "Yes, they are all pokotsany ..." Something does not invigorate me. If you manage to count something from them ... Well then, yes, I bow down. But couldn’t it be more detailed about the "crystal"? I can hardly imagine how to do this with the giblets of the microcircuit turned out. When reading, chips are inserted into the connectors of the readers (or whatever they are called there) or are they connected like loops? It’s just interesting, because what they saw rather gives the Turks a reason for gloating.
      1. The comment was deleted.
      2. Rrrj
        Rrrj 18 December 2015 15: 53
        0
        Quote: T-73
        But couldn’t it be more detailed about the "crystal"?

        Dada - already looked - I’ll say an almost hopeless case.
        A crystal is a part of the microcircuit on which information is stored in this case, in case of breakage of the legs (I thought about this), the compound can be dissolved and attached to the crystal directly ...
        In our case, the crystal crumbled - that is, everything ...
        1. I read the news
          I read the news 18 December 2015 16: 13
          +2
          First you need to look for crystals and see if they are really destroyed. Some craftsmen and in artisanal conditions are soldered to the destroyed microcircuits. And here I think the conditions (I hope) will be better.
        2. AlexAl
          AlexAl 18 December 2015 17: 22
          +2
          Theoretically, if you use an electron microscope and read the charge directly from the transistors on the chip and cut off the topology of the chip in layers to get to the inner layers, then the data can also be read from broken microcircuits. After all, a memory chip is a set of field effect transistors, only small ones. But this is in the current collapse of the country - fantastic !!!

          If anyone is interested, you can take the field MOSFET transistor and conduct the experiment yourself.
          Need a transistor and a multimeter (tester).
          They applied a charge to the gate relative to the drain or source, and look, the transistor is closed, it rings between the drain and the source, wait another hour or so, and it rings again. Here you have a memory cell.
        3. Lunic
          Lunic 18 December 2015 21: 41
          +1
          in general, the crystal could well have been preserved. The crystal itself takes up (a germanium or silicon substrate takes up very little space in the very center of the microcircuit. Most of the space (inside) is occupied by just the legs. The contacts of the crystal are connected to the microcircuit legs by gold micron wires. After unsoldering the chip leads, this whole structure is filled (under pressure) With the breakage of the contacts of the microcircuit and with the presence of an intact crystal, everything can be completely restored.
          1. Rrrj
            Rrrj 19 December 2015 10: 59
            0
            Quote: Lunic
            The crystal itself takes up (a germanium or silicon substrate takes up very little space in the very center of the chip.

            No - the flash drive has a large crystal - almost all the space is occupied.
    4. Ami du peuple
      Ami du peuple 18 December 2015 14: 24
      +8
      Quote: rrrj
      PS. Microchips sooo strong - and even more so the military class.

      Yes, my Estonian friend, such microchips are undoubtedly cast from cast iron!
      1. Yura
        Yura 18 December 2015 14: 41
        +2
        Quote: Ami du peuple
        Yes, my Estonian friend, such microchips are undoubtedly made of cast iron!
        yes
        I’ll add, by cold forging, after which there is a refinement with the help of two boulders, on one of which there is a microcircuit, according to which there is urine, they beat the second with a frequency of 1000 beats per minute. winked
        1. T-73
          T-73 19 December 2015 00: 07
          +1
          Quote: Jura
          microcircuit, according to which there is urine, they beat the second with a frequency of 1000 beats per minute

          Apparently this is how they achieve the clock frequency? And with four boulders, they increase the number of cores to 4. I think it is possible with us. With Everest ... or Elbrus? how much do we steam?
    5. Extraneous
      Extraneous 18 December 2015 14: 28
      +1
      The video shows that the recording is made in this device on conventional flash memory chips in plastic cases made in China. Most circuits are in ruins. if there are not completely destroyed - then, at most - one, two. To restore the flight route in this case is doubtful. Too great a lack of data, the totality of which allows us to calculate the route.

      Video published on RT
      1. northern
        northern 18 December 2015 15: 28
        +1
        Did you see the inscription "made in China" there, or did you come up with it on the go?
        1. Extraneous
          Extraneous 18 December 2015 16: 16
          -3
          The lack of standard marking for microcircuits speaks for itself.
          1. northern
            northern 18 December 2015 16: 43
            0
            photo to the studio, where you saw the microcircuits "without standard marking". I will slightly reveal another military secret, in the defense industry the installation of microcircuits "without passports" is a normal thing. A small element of secrecy. Like this, for example -
            1. Extraneous
              Extraneous 18 December 2015 22: 06
              +2
              The lack of marking on military microcircuits refers to programmable and non-programmable microcontrollers and processors of the original architecture. The absence of such markings on standard memory chips is a clear sign that these components are imported and their markings were "cut down" imitating "import substitution". at one time he "sawed" the chips when he soldered "sinclairs" and repaired Zelenograd drives ..
              "Zvezdochka" was put on products after military acceptance. In electronics, for example, on transistors, diodes, and military-grade capacitors, there were both markings and an asterisk.
              In the product that we are currently considering, the absence of marking on flash memory chips, which are not produced in Russia, if there is marking on the main processor and the ADC?
          2. cap
            cap 18 December 2015 20: 33
            +2
            Quote: Stranger
            The lack of standard marking for microcircuits speaks for itself.

            On military products in the USSR, at best, a five-pointed star was put. This is a sign of the military representative. All information on the packaging, which, after installation in the product, is disposed of.
            I suggest you conduct an experiment.
            Stop the military vehicle and try to find the engine number on it. hi
    6. Batia
      Batia 18 December 2015 14: 58
      0
      Sir, have you ever seen a chip in your eyes?
    7. Locksmith
      Locksmith 18 December 2015 22: 39
      +2
      Quote: rrrj
      PS. Microchips sooo strong - and even more so military class.

      Judging by the design = it’s worth pulling the engineers on the globe who haven’t come to the asshole — it’s probably their main center (I can’t call it the mind, the main thinking cell) to untie inertia boards wassat a layer of heat-conducting rubber will easily extinguish both heat and removal under 100 G, and wiring boards with wires will not allow to break the base, one word is nonsense !!
  2. bovig
    bovig 19 December 2015 07: 28
    0
    Quote: Nevsky_ZU
    Materials have already appeared in the Turkish media that damage to flight recorders "could have been inflicted in the Russian Defense Ministry itself so that the world community would not receive reliable information."

    Who would doubt their inferiority. fool

    They "sort of" indirectly confirm that the lack of reliable information on the downed Donetsk Boeing is of this nature ...)))
  • AlexTires
    AlexTires 18 December 2015 14: 16
    +5
    Quote: sasha 19871987
    Erdoganchik, wait for the service ... soon ... and the lie will not save you ...

    It is unlikely that something will change - the partners will make the face like a brick "I am not me and not mine" ...
  • Denis Obukhov
    Denis Obukhov 18 December 2015 14: 22
    +7
    It is strange that a flash drive is made so clumsy.
    If you pay close attention, then the flash memory chips in a plastic case,
    If such a registrar were on a civilian ship, this is one thing, but it’s a military combat aircraft! How could one expect that the rocket would not fall into the tail ?! The chips are possibly of foreign manufacture (if the capacity is large), so the inscriptions on them are erased and have their own identification numbers. But! next to it is a controller, made in Russia in a metal-ceramic case, and it is safe!
    I don’t know what the developers are thinking, but cooling, even in a sealed enclosure, can be done. You could even make sure that the chips do not burst from a strong shock load.
    But in general, import substitution must be done faster.

    1. Extraneous
      Extraneous 18 December 2015 14: 33
      +1
      Civilian vessels often use wire storage, which is much more reliable in terms of preserving information in the event of a wreck. But they are bulky and expensive. You can’t shove this into a combat aircraft.
    2. max702
      max702 18 December 2015 14: 52
      +3
      Regarding recorders, there are generally big questions, the feeling that they are made using technologies of the 50-60s, with the mind you can completely transfer everything and everything on board, as well as provide wireless power to the recorder, this allows, a simple 32 gigabyte memory card the size of a children's fingernail costs from 1000 rubles, for military purposes you can buy something better, and the size and price allow multiple duplication of information up to dozens of memory cards, the memory capacity will allow not only speech to record technical information, but also streaming video in HD, and not from one camera .. I recall the plane is worth billions. I do not know inertness of thinking or incompetence ..
      RS: Somehow the helicopter recorder fell into the hands of I was struck by the flimsy and wretched performance, I understand that the helicopter’s loads are not the same but still ...
      1. aleks 62 next
        aleks 62 next 18 December 2015 15: 36
        +3
        .... Somehow the helicopter recorder fell into the hands of I was struck by the flimsy and wretched performance, I understand that the helicopter’s loads are not the same but still ...


        ... most likely, a voice recorder fell into your hands ... A small box, very flimsy ... Parametric SARP-12 - you can drive piles (molded case, armored cassette, etc.) ... lol
      2. Rus2012
        Rus2012 19 December 2015 02: 12
        -1
        Quote: max702
        Regarding recorders, there are generally big questions, the feeling that they are made using 50-60 technology

        Wait, everything is solid-state, in multi-layer protection.
        See the design of the Bow32.
        What is our "matryoshka", what is Honeywell

        1. AlexAl
          AlexAl 19 December 2015 12: 30
          0
          And why are the boards on the other side broken? Vector has changed yes?
    3. Black Colonel
      Black Colonel 18 December 2015 14: 52
      +4
      I am not special, but I believed that such units are filled with some kind of shockproof non-combustible monolith. It turns out not so. Probably the fight against excess weight or the cheapening of production.
      1. AlexAl
        AlexAl 18 December 2015 16: 35
        -2
        Probably the fight against excess weight or the cheapening of production.
        This is the result of a budget cut.
        1. Rus2012
          Rus2012 19 December 2015 10: 39
          -2
          Quote: AlexAl
          This is the result of a budget cut.

          with the manuals of the State Department
          or oval voice?
          1. AlexAl
            AlexAl 19 December 2015 12: 27
            0
            Kuyalnoy-tavaristch, Kuyalnogo-tavaristch! And the State Department too. You’re the boss even where you won’t be lost with such people. People like you wrote tons of libel to my grandfather in Moscow, like they were deputies.
    4. aleks 62 next
      aleks 62 next 18 December 2015 15: 27
      +1
      .... if such a registrar were standing on a civilian ship, this is one thing, but it's a military combat aircraft! How could one expect that the rocket would not fall into the tail ?! ...

      .... On-board recorders are not designed to hit a rocket, but to record the parameters of a previous crash or plane crash ... According to statistics, the safest and most preserved part of the plane or helicopter is the tail ... Nobody expects a missile to hit the recorder. ... hi
  • Denis Obukhov
    Denis Obukhov 18 December 2015 14: 28
    0
    Quote: Sasha 19871987
    the main thing is that there is information from the last flight ... erdoganchik, wait for the feed ... soon ... and the lie will not save you ...



    On Monday, when the data of the recorder is published, the final nail will be hammered into the coffin of Erdogan's career as a politician.
    1. Lt. Air Force stock
      Lt. Air Force stock 18 December 2015 18: 08
      +2
      Some kind of nonsense ... The plane was shot down at an altitude of 6000 meters at a speed of approximately 900 kilometers an hour and the black box could not stand it ... Passenger planes moving at the same speed crash at an altitude of 10000-11000 meters and the boxes are usually whole.
      1. AlexAl
        AlexAl 18 December 2015 18: 35
        +1
        Because on a civilian vessel are Honeywell recorders and the like. if not laziness look on the Internet.
      2. Extraneous
        Extraneous 18 December 2015 22: 53
        0
        The dimensions of a civilian airliner, unlike a military attack aircraft, can greatly extinguish the impact load in contact with an obstacle. In addition, the safety of the black boxes of civilian aircraft is often due to the fact that before a collision with the ground they most often manage to change the level. But cases of severe deformation and data loss occur quite often there.
        1. AlexAl
          AlexAl 19 December 2015 00: 08
          0
          It depends on how it falls and where and about what. There are no guarantees that a civilian from above the echelon will fly over and not collapse, but for the military, we will not collapse more realistically, but not necessarily.
          1. Extraneous
            Extraneous 19 December 2015 00: 27
            0
            I agree with you about the destructibility of aircraft. The problem here is precisely that a stronger fuselage contributes to the transfer of most of the shock load to its entire filling. Ideally, a recorder would be nice to have on a military vehicle in the design of a catapult. More likely to save data.
            1. AlexAl
              AlexAl 19 December 2015 12: 23
              0
              And this is true.
  • gladcu2
    gladcu2 18 December 2015 21: 25
    0
    Sasha 1987

    In principle, the recorder could not tell anything new. Yes, and especially not necessary.

    In connection with the events in Poland, it is possible that it is in Russia's interests not to escalate the crisis with Turkey.
  • The black
    The black 18 December 2015 13: 55
    +7
    Russia, of course, must prove its case, but the fact is that no one needs this truth, except for Russia !!!! And this is sad !!!!!!!!! .... The Russian side invited 14 countries to participate in the examination, 12 of them refused.
    1. lelikas
      lelikas 18 December 2015 13: 59
      +6
      Quote: Black
      Russia, of course, must prove its case, but the fact is that no one needs this truth, except for Russia !!!! And this is sad !!!!!!!!! .... The Russian side invited 14 countries to participate in the examination, 12 of them refused.

      Naturally not needed, besides the Yankees already know the exact route, but the fact that it can’t be decrypted is just in the hands of the hills.
      1. The black
        The black 18 December 2015 14: 04
        +1
        I agree...
    2. clidon
      clidon 18 December 2015 19: 31
      +4
      And what is the point in the examination, the reliability of which cannot be verified. Well, tell me - if an American plane was shot down on the border with Ukraine (Georgia, the Baltic states), which crossed our border, and the Yankees would justify themselves proving their innocence by publicly opening a "black box" that came from nowhere and it is not known how and who is damaged. Would Russia send its experts to participate in this show?
      1. Extraneous
        Extraneous 19 December 2015 00: 45
        0
        In fact, all this equipment is numbered and it is not a problem to check the correspondence of numbers, if the doubters have such a desire.
        Another thing is that Russia in any situation is not profitable falsification in this matter. All that is needed is documented data on the point of destruction of the aircraft. and this in any case happened over the territory of Syria.
        1. clidon
          clidon 19 December 2015 08: 35
          0
          That is, the Americans pull out their broken module and say:
          - look here it is from our crashed plane.
          We:
          - And how do you prove that this is exactly the module from your plane, and not the fake that you bungled from the parts around the corner?
          They:
          Well here is our (non) secret journal with the numbers of the boxes and the correspondence of their machines. Everything is the same.
          We:
          - And how do you prove that you did not write a magazine right around the corner?
          Americans:
          - ... well, there are seals, here are seals ...
          We:
          - Look for fools, and seals and seals, also yours. This is not to mention the fact that they spoof them just to spit.

          Another thing is that Russia in any situation is not profitable falsification in this matter.

          We are falsified in the event that the Su-24 actually flew to Turkish territory. And he was actually warned.
    3. gladcu2
      gladcu2 18 December 2015 21: 32
      0
      The black

      Do not rush to conclusions.

      True, she will not go anywhere. Everything has its time. Something tells me a lot, a hundred events will soon begin to develop like a snowball. And on the other hand.

      Events in Poland.
  • chikenous59
    chikenous59 18 December 2015 13: 57
    +3
    Quote: Black
    Russia, of course, must prove its case, but the fact is that no one needs this truth, except for Russia !!!! And this is sad !!!!!!!!! .... The Russian side invited 14 countries to participate in the examination, 12 of them refused.

    Then why all this window dressing ??
    Whoever needs it knows everything. And we, and the Americans, and the rest of NATO.
    1. The black
      The black 18 December 2015 14: 01
      +4
      Quote: chikenous59
      Quote: Black
      Russia, of course, must prove its case, but the fact is that no one needs this truth, except for Russia !!!! And this is sad !!!!!!!!! .... The Russian side invited 14 countries to participate in the examination, 12 of them refused.

      Then why all this window dressing ??
      Whoever needs it knows everything. And we, and the Americans, and the rest of NATO.

      This is not a "show", but an objective investigation. But the refusal to participate once again confirms that we are right ...
    2. udincev
      udincev 18 December 2015 14: 06
      +1
      Quote: chikenous59
      Then why all this window dressing ??
      Whoever needs it knows everything. And we, and the Americans, and the rest of NATO.

      Many do not know - for them. For those who pray in the USA.
      1. northern
        northern 18 December 2015 15: 30
        +1
        For those who pray for the United States, there is only one truth - from the United States itself, it’s a stubborn people, akin to Svidomo.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • volodimer
    volodimer 18 December 2015 14: 00
    +2
    Materials have already appeared in the Turkish media that damage to flight recorders "could have been inflicted in the Russian Defense Ministry itself so that the world community would not receive reliable information."
    Yeah, an air-to-air missile somewhere over Syria.
  • Dr. Bormental
    Dr. Bormental 18 December 2015 14: 02
    +2
    Everyone knows everything. Nothing new. Western policy is to make us look worse. This is normal, it has always been and will be. The main thing for us is not to forget who our "friends and partners" are.
  • bad
    bad 18 December 2015 14: 02
    +4
    Materials have already appeared in the Turkish media that damage to flight recorders "could have been inflicted in the Russian Defense Ministry itself so that the world community would not receive reliable information."
    ..hekh.turks again "licked" the mattresses? .. laughing deflection is counted-relax the rolls and have fun .. laughing
  • Wedmak
    Wedmak 18 December 2015 14: 06
    +3
    Throwing beads in front of pigs. It is, of course, calm in my soul that they did everything right, but nobody is interested in "how it should". It is much more interesting to shout the slogans "WE and NATO", and then further in terms of the level of perception of the surrounding reality.
  • The black
    The black 18 December 2015 14: 09
    14
    If someone did not understand, the Su-24 black box analysis procedure was arranged to show how it was necessary to work with Boeing black boxes. Most ordinary citizens of the EU and the USA, having seen this and comparing it with the fact that tryndels about Boeing, they will begin to suspect something.

    The contents of this box is not critical, since there is all the necessary data of objective control from the ground.
    1. iouris
      iouris 18 December 2015 14: 14
      +3
      I agree. The contrast in the methodology for investigating the causes of the crash of the aircraft is really obvious.
      1. Extraneous
        Extraneous 18 December 2015 14: 38
        +1
        In this case, the decryption of the data of the recorder is of tremendous political importance. It would provide an opportunity to document the guilt of the Turks.
        It is a pity that the damage is catastrophic. Most, if not all, of the data cannot be recovered.
        1. clidon
          clidon 18 December 2015 19: 33
          +1
          I just ask again, how is the originality of the recorder proved?
          1. NIKNN
            NIKNN 18 December 2015 20: 45
            +2
            clidon RU Today, 19:33 ↑

            I just ask again, how is the originality of the recorder proved?


            At this time, many planes of the Second World War get out of the swamps, and how do they prove that this is a particular aircraft? In aviation, any detail is specific and cannot be ignored; otherwise, it cannot be on a flying airplane. hi
            1. clidon
              clidon 18 December 2015 22: 26
              +1
              When they take out a part and wash the dirt with it, no one has any doubt about its authenticity.
              And what certifies the authenticity of a military device? Room? Yes, it can be interrupted, remade, transfused with the case overnight. Holograms, seals, stamps? Not serious in this context.

              This is even without taking into account the fact that the numbers of these boxes (and they do not come in a constructive kit with the machine and have unique numbers) can be internationally examined and are unknown because they are classified information of the Moscow Region.
    2. northern
      northern 18 December 2015 15: 32
      +2
      Most residents of the EU and the USA are not very interested in what is happening in the neighboring state or county.
      Moreover, they do not care what happens in the east, whether it is near or not near.
  • vadimtt
    vadimtt 18 December 2015 14: 12
    11
    Hmm, I either don’t understand something, or the engineering school is in the past. How is it possible in a shockproof product to connect two boards together with 4 racks at the edges am Not surprisingly, everything scattered nafig. In my time, a foam plastic lodgement was installed between the boards in such devices and the whole structure was spilled with resin to the state of a monolith. Yeah...
    1. Oleg14774
      Oleg14774 18 December 2015 14: 21
      0
      Quote: vadimtt
      How is it possible in a shockproof product to connect two boards together with 4 racks at the edges

      And who told you that this is a photo of boards from this box ?! A photo can be made from anything. The sea is not specialists here! So we are bought for "reliable" Mercedes, "exclusive vintage" wine and whiskey, and of course, on the fact that the Donbas leaked GDP, etc.!
      1. vadimtt
        vadimtt 18 December 2015 14: 25
        +4
        I watched the online broadcast of the showdown of this box. There are just such boards.
        1. Dryuya2
          Dryuya2 18 December 2015 14: 41
          +1
          Quote: Oleg147741
          And who told you that this is a photo of the boards from this box ?!

          Quote: vadimtt
          I watched the online broadcast of the showdown of this box.

          1. Lunic
            Lunic 18 December 2015 21: 58
            +3
            Well, the recorder looks like it would have been assembled in a Young technician's mug or at the UPC in the 10th grade, but damn the box-opening experts opened the box purely in Soviet .. with the help of a hammer and chisel and someone else's mother .. could have been more careful.
            And then .. :) We carefully took out the boards, looked, dropped them a couple of times and, in the end, just threw them one at the other ... Like now, we will look at them with X-ray ..
            Couldn’t it be more accurate and solid to do all this, all the more so since ten cameras monitor each movement.
            1. AlexAl
              AlexAl 18 December 2015 23: 43
              0
              Yes, the specialists opened it. The hammer on the screwdriver is ours on the collective farm. My father brought up an adult for such an attitude to the instrument. And then a master class testified to the whole world.
    2. cap
      cap 18 December 2015 20: 43
      +2
      vadimtt RU Today, 14:12 In my time, a foam plastic lodgement was installed between the boards in such devices and the whole structure was spilled with resin to the state of a monolith. Yeah...
      I confirm hi .
      As an example, ZAS phones on KP. Truth has long been true wassat
  • askort154
    askort154 18 December 2015 14: 14
    +8
    My God, I look at the plateau and wonder. The impression is that they are not on a combat plane, but on a simple Chinese radio. Previously, such aircraft plateaus were filled with epoxy or similar varnishes. Not surprisingly, part of the plateau in the "box" has become scrap.
    1. Oleg14774
      Oleg14774 18 December 2015 14: 22
      0
      Quote: askort154
      Oh my god, I look at the plateau and wonder

      Commented above!
    2. sisa29
      sisa29 18 December 2015 14: 24
      +4
      I agree with you. Alive, I never saw them, but always when they showed me how to unravel a wire-tape from old boxes, I thought, well, really, all this can not be made not killed. Let there be a titanium box with a board inside filled with the same e-acid. In total, you need to bring out a bunch of wires.
      1. aleks 62 next
        aleks 62 next 18 December 2015 15: 42
        +5
        ... Let there be a titanium box with a board inside filled with the same e-acid. In total, you need to bring out a bunch of wires ....

        .... Please .... MSRP-64 ..... Withstands drop on concrete from a height of 3 km, does not burn for 15 minutes (at T = 1500 degrees), etc. ..... hi
    3. I read the news
      I read the news 18 December 2015 15: 49
      +4
      Judging by the video, it was the hard legs that summed up the corners. If the distance between the boards was set and held due to the elasticity of the mounting wires, then they would be damped (bent) by taking on the deforming loads.
      In short, they wanted the best - they introduced an additional stiffness element, but it turned out as always - the protective element turned out to be stronger than the board.
  • Aleksandr2012
    Aleksandr2012 18 December 2015 14: 23
    +6
    I am ashamed of the insides of the black box, or rather the execution. The element base is not suitable for the purpose, there is no design of the printed circuit board, I didn’t notice vibration and shock protection inside the case. We had problems with technologies, but constructively, we could do it right.
    1. Vadim237
      Vadim237 18 December 2015 19: 44
      0
      It seems to us that all electronic warfare systems are made on the principle that it exists and works, but there is no sense in it.
    2. Rus2012
      Rus2012 18 December 2015 19: 56
      -1
      Quote: Aleksandr2012
      I am ashamed of the insides of the black box, or rather the execution. The element base is not suitable for the purpose, there is no design of the printed circuit board, I didn’t notice vibration and shock protection inside the case. We had problems with technologies, but constructively, we could do it right.


      Who is ashamed and why?
      Some nodes, elements, assemblies and blocks that are important - are designed, developed, and manufactured on the basis of special requirements according to the relevant standards for mechanical strength, vibration, shock overload, increased heat resistance, and stay in an aggressive environment. Accordingly, they are checked for compliance with specified requirements.
      From this point of view, all these flight data registration units correspond to the specified requirements. If something collapsed, then the overloads were higher than the specified ones. There is nothing surprising in this. According to all standards, such units correspond in durability to both MIL and NLGS. If instead of "Tester" there was a foreign registrar, it would also collapse. Perhaps even earlier and stronger. Our requirements in this part are higher than foreign standards.
      1. Extraneous
        Extraneous 19 December 2015 00: 54
        0
        Just in this case, there is a device that must withstand shock overloads in addition to the standard ones. And we see a design like those that I in the nineties soldered as a PC based on the Z80. Drop it on the floor and take repairs.
  • newcomer
    newcomer 18 December 2015 14: 25
    +5
    friends wait. I do not understand anything. with all this decryption is possible or not? who can say how proffi?
    1. vadimtt
      vadimtt 18 December 2015 14: 29
      +7
      It depends on which redundant coding scheme the data was protected (looking at the design, doubts arise that it was protected). In general, with a competent approach, even if only 3-4 chips are alive, information can be pulled out.
      1. Rus2012
        Rus2012 18 December 2015 20: 00
        0
        Quote: vadimtt
        data was protected

        at least - duplication, the norm for ZBN - tripling
  • AFG-X
    AFG-X 18 December 2015 14: 27
    -1
    Judging by the photograph, for some reason, the board contains non-military microcircuit chips in a plastic case.
    I wonder why?
    1. vadimtt
      vadimtt 18 December 2015 14: 30
      +1
      100 times cheaper
    2. Bayonet
      Bayonet 18 December 2015 14: 57
      +4
      Quote: AFG-X
      Judging by the photograph, for some reason, the board contains non-military microcircuit chips in a plastic case.

      And what about the military, should there be cast iron? It's just that boards in devices exposed to high dynamic loads are usually filled with a compound. Why in this device, which should withstand fire, water and copper pipes during an airplane crash, is not so - the question is certainly interesting. request
      1. AFG-X
        AFG-X 18 December 2015 15: 16
        +1
        Chips for the military are usually ceramic.
        1. Bayonet
          Bayonet 18 December 2015 17: 39
          +2
          Quote: AFG-X
          Chips for the military are usually ceramic.

          Not at all necessary. If you come across the 133 series, so it is all with a ceramic-metal case. By the way, ceramics are more fragile, this can be easily seen with awkward dismantling. smile
      2. Vadim237
        Vadim237 18 December 2015 19: 50
        +1
        This leads to very unpleasant thoughts - that such nonsense as with the black box design is not only in aviation, but everywhere, from ICBMs to communications, one poor-quality board will ruin the entire product at a critical moment.
      3. Rus2012
        Rus2012 18 December 2015 20: 04
        0
        Quote: Bayonet
        usually filled with compound. Why in this device, which should withstand fire, water and copper pipes during an airplane crash, is not so - the question is certainly interesting.

        Dear colleague, it is not always possible and necessary to fill in. I remember once how the REI "filled with compound" - squeezed out with this very compound due to mismatches of the coefficients of temperature expansion in a certain range of the temperature ruler ...
        1. AlexAl
          AlexAl 18 December 2015 22: 47
          0
          Who is REI? ERI know -electro radio products and what you don’t know.
          About the compound.
          You say that the compound is bad to use, because it has an expansion coefficient?
          You carefully look at the photo of the honeywell registrar that I presented and see how they are struggling with the expansion of the compound. There, if you see, the board is first flooded with a soft compound, and only then with a harder one. This is done because the board with components heats up and overboard -50 for example. And there are technical data on the compound, by which the designer determines whether or not to put it in a particular product. And besides everything else, other characteristics are looked at, such as the chemical composition, the stability of this composition and much more, and we don’t stupidly fill it with what is, because they won’t give another. But the experiment is a good thing - but not everywhere and not in everything. As an example of the experiment, the Chernobyl AS.
          So, do not disgrace yourself with knowledge and skills.
          1. Rus2012
            Rus2012 19 December 2015 02: 26
            -1
            Quote: AlexAl
            And besides everything else, other characteristics are looked at, such as the chemical composition, the stability of this composition and much more, and we don’t stupidly fill it with what is, because they won’t give another.
            .
            So, do not disgrace yourself with knowledge and skills.


            ... do not attribute your speculations to everyone!
            I have no one and never got into, hit or put anywhere.
            For almost a hundred years there has been a whole school, a set of technologies and programs on how to do, what to do, where to check and test when a new technique is created. From an idea to a series ...
            Do not know - be silent!

            *** Repeated warning -
            So, do not disgrace yourself with knowledge and skills.
            1. AlexAl
              AlexAl 19 December 2015 12: 15
              -1
              Yes, we know PON. PIC. Enchanting documents are sometimes obtained. Or the EMM test report "The product does not emit because it is made of metal and there are no electrical elements outside" - well, the whole check corresponds.
        2. Alexander_
          Alexander_ 19 December 2015 09: 44
          0
          Why fill with such an incorrect compound. Is there no right one?
  • Aleksandr2012
    Aleksandr2012 18 December 2015 14: 30
    +2
    Because there are no analogues, those that are just in the military corps are intact. If the case has scattered into several parts together with the crystal, it is impossible to recover information. The crystal is a small silicon square in the center of the case. As a rule, in such microcircuits the size of the order of 2X2 mm.
  • kit-kat
    kit-kat 18 December 2015 14: 31
    0
    What the hell is this? The plane is old, which means that the black box is also old, unless, of course, it was replaced during the modernization. And in the old "black boxes" all information was written on the wire. No microcircuit could affect the information already recorded. Well, replacing the wire with a microcircuit in such a device is stupidity. The wire is more reliable.
    1. vadimtt
      vadimtt 18 December 2015 14: 35
      +2
      So what, that old, but modernized. Probably the boxes also changed.
      I also think that the wire in this particular case is more reliable, but alas, there are too few channels and too little recording time.
      1. Bayonet
        Bayonet 18 December 2015 15: 03
        +5
        Wire, this is already the last century - the whole world has switched to solid-state media. In fact, it should be a monolithic block and with a normal design there is nothing to break. Systems with recording on a wire have a wire pulling mechanism (the same as in a tape recorder), therefore, are less reliable.
    2. askort154
      askort154 18 December 2015 14: 43
      +3
      kit-kat .... And in the old "black boxes" all information was written on the wire. No microcircuit could affect the information already recorded.

      Audio was written to the wire. Negotiations of crew members for internal and external communications. And the flight parameters were written on magnetic tape.
    3. Rus2012
      Rus2012 18 December 2015 20: 15
      0
      Quote: kit-kat
      More reliable wire.

      after 400gr. magnetization is lost. Especially after getting a magnetic carrier in a strong magnetic field ...
    4. Rus2012
      Rus2012 19 December 2015 02: 29
      -1
      Quote: kit-kat
      Unless, of course, during modernization

      already wrote -
      Regularly, a Tester-UZ type flight data recording system was installed on the Su-24. Previously, the “Tester-U3” included a protected magnetic storage device, now - a solid-state protected on-board parametric information storage Bant-32-02, which is designed to directly replace the magnetic unit from the Tester UZ system. At the same time, the overall and connecting characteristics are saved, the amount of information stored is increased up to 25 hours, the time for reading flight information is significantly reduced.
  • Roman 25
    Roman 25 18 December 2015 14: 38
    +5
    Quote: sasha 19871987
    the main thing is that there is information from the last flight ... erdoganchik, wait for the feed ... soon ... and the lie will not save you ...

    And who will listen? Or you don’t remember how at the very beginning of this story it was mentioned several times that there is a disputed section of the Turkish-Syrian border ...
    So this situation is clear to the world community, like no other day! The Su-24 was in this disputed territory, which means Perdogan had the right to defend the country. From what or who it is no longer interesting, especially when it comes to Russia. So the truth (data from the onboard recorders) is just a balm for our souls, and information for thought for those who still have the opportunity to think independently, and not just "lick" (although they are unlikely to speak, it is expensive)
    1. Ze Kot
      Ze Kot 18 December 2015 14: 56
      +1
      Quote: Roman 25
      that there is a controversial section of the Turkish-Syrian border ...
      So this situation is clear to the world community, like God’s day! Su-24 was in this disputed territory, which means that Perdogan had the right to defend the country.


      Firstly, are you sure that the site is controversial?
      Secondly, EVEN IF it is controversial, it is not yet the territory of Turkey. And it does not give the right to shoot down planes.
  • 1976AG
    1976AG 18 December 2015 14: 43
    0
    Quote: Ami du peuple
    Quote: rrrj
    PS. Microchips sooo strong - and even more so the military class.

    Yes, my Estonian friend, such microchips are undoubtedly cast from cast iron!


    Do you think cast iron is strong? It is tough but fragile.
    1. Extraneous
      Extraneous 18 December 2015 14: 48
      +4
      Do you think cast iron is strong? It is tough but fragile.


      Depends on the grade of cast iron. There is also malleable cast iron, which is far from being as fragile as gray.
      1. Black Colonel
        Black Colonel 18 December 2015 17: 43
        0
        And there is also malleable and ductile iron.
  • yuriy55
    yuriy55 18 December 2015 14: 44
    +3
    I believe that no decoding of the "black boxes" will be able to change my opinion that Erdogan got into Syria's affairs only for a selfish purpose, and the subsequent actions of the Turkish authorities to justify the motivation for the attack on the Su-24 are just ordinary nonsense and excuses caught "with red-handed ", grabbed by the hand ...

    PS I did not imagine that the electronic filling of the "black box" exists in such a flimsy version ... recourse
  • Gardener91
    Gardener91 18 December 2015 14: 51
    0
    X-ray-reinsurance for eye retraction. Information store tungsten wire recorder, if the registration system is not modernized. By this it can be judged that the truth is most likely on the side of the Ministry of Defense of the Russian Federation.
  • imugn
    imugn 18 December 2015 14: 55
    +1
    After a missile hit, the fifth acceptance would not have saved, since the case had collapsed.
  • vobels
    vobels 18 December 2015 15: 01
    +1
    ".. The Turkish media have already published materials that damage to flight recorders" could have been inflicted in the RF Ministry of Defense itself, .. " It is in the brains of the Durian mass media that they inflicted damage when bending them into the si position.
  • oleg_kch
    oleg_kch 18 December 2015 15: 14
    +1
    Military boards were filled with filler, sealed and checked under pressure back in the days of the USSR.
    Draw your own conclusions.
    1. Gaersul
      Gaersul 18 December 2015 18: 54
      +1
      Check jellied blocks under pressure? This is something new.
      1. The comment was deleted.
  • dchegrinec
    dchegrinec 18 December 2015 15: 34
    +1
    Britain is wonderfully expressing interest. Why would it be? Maybe she was scared by a possible future US President Trump? laughing
    1. svd-xnumx
      svd-xnumx 18 December 2015 22: 37
      0
      Britain is wonderfully expressing interest. Why would it be? Maybe she was scared by a possible future US President Trump?
      The British have already refused to participate in the commission.
  • midashko
    midashko 18 December 2015 16: 27
    +4
    And this is a fragment of a black box? I wonder where the country's radio industry? It looks like the construction of the 80s of the last century. And even in the 80s of the last century, radio telemetry equipment installed on munitions (Nizhny Tagil, NTIIM) was produced and easily tolerated an artillery shot and ammunition drop, after which it was removed and could be reused. In addition, various radio fuses for shells were produced in other cities. It would be necessary to send designers to learn (as long as anyone has) in matters of the production of shockproof equipment.
  • DobryAAH
    DobryAAH 18 December 2015 17: 40
    +2
    Well, I don’t know, if everything is filled with epoxy, then when the shell is deformed, the force will be transferred directly to the board, and it will break. Moreover, you are tormented by picking it or dissolving it to get to the chips. And the deformation will be in the fall. A fiberglass board is lightweight, and even springy.
    I hope infa is written in words immediately in 8 bits or 16 sequentially from microchip to microchip. Then the whole microchips will have the whole part of the information. In addition, you can make duplication on the same board in this case, not so much it weighs and costs.
    1. AlexAl
      AlexAl 18 December 2015 18: 43
      +3
      if the board is filled with epoxy, then it may not work immediately after the epoxy has dried, if it is interesting, look at the shrinkage of the epoxy during hardening, as well as when the temperature changes. And about the light circuit board - count. shock loads for the military can reach up to 150g, respectively, if there is a microcircuit weighing 10g on the board, we get 10g * 150 = 1.5 kg, and there can be a lot of such microcircuits there. Here is the board of this division (recorder) from Su24 and could not stand it. The places where the board was attached to the racks were simply cut off (broken off).
      1. DobryAAH
        DobryAAH 18 December 2015 19: 19
        +3
        25 years ago, he made non-contact and infrared sensors, flooded them with epoxy from prying eyes and moisture. A 95 percent yield was working after pouring.
        1. AlexAl
          AlexAl 18 December 2015 22: 56
          0
          This is from gullible alien eyes. You heat your fill with soldering iron at a temperature of 150 degrees and poke a toothpick into the epoxy, your epoxy will collapse very easily.
          The only epoxy that held 320 degrees, that which glued the cabs to the MZKT for mobile pu.
      2. Vadim237
        Vadim237 18 December 2015 19: 54
        +2
        Overload boards for artillery guided shells is 40000g.
        1. DobryAAH
          DobryAAH 18 December 2015 21: 12
          +2
          There maybe boards with elements are specially designed and arranged and some elements are lightweight, but here it flew, as God sent. But I just don’t know the design, it’s a pure assumption. Now they are making flexible chips, maybe something like that in shells?
        2. The comment was deleted.
  • The comment was deleted.
  • Aleksandr2012
    Aleksandr2012 18 December 2015 18: 45
    +1
    Now there are a lot of soft compounds that are easy to remove and soften the blow. Epoxy is certainly not an option to fill, but elementary dampers, you just need to do it.
    1. AlexAl
      AlexAl 18 December 2015 18: 59
      -1
      They exist now, existed before in the USSR and will exist - this is an axiom.
      Attention is the question of why there is no compound in the design of this product, and how this division was carried out by the PSI and what standards of the TU did it meet, and what standards "and as you know, our standards are sometimes an order of magnitude higher than MIL", and ???????? ??????????? there are still many, many questions. The answer to these questions is obvious to me, but everyone else doubts.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 18 December 2015 20: 27
        0
        Judging by the broken-down 13 boards out of 16, we can already say with sovereignty that the decryption was covered with a copper basin, and the manufacturer of this engineering miracle of engineering will get good lyuley.
        1. AlexAl
          AlexAl 18 December 2015 22: 07
          -1
          Not a fact, because we do not know what requirements this division claimed.
          Maybe it should not have been on the plane, but let's say in a telephone booth.
          1. Vadim237
            Vadim237 18 December 2015 22: 47
            0
            It smacks of production defects.
    2. DobryAAH
      DobryAAH 18 December 2015 20: 35
      +2
      What are soft dampers for overloads of 150? The soft mass will move at a high speed on the board and deform it. If you just drop it from the table, then yes, it’s normal. A foreign country filled its sensors with some kind of rubber type filler, but this is from moisture. I think that the one who was developing the design of the black box was not a complete hose, made the best option.
      1. Vadim237
        Vadim237 18 December 2015 21: 02
        0
        This "best option" has already shown that it is far from the best.
      2. AlexAl
        AlexAl 18 December 2015 22: 11
        0
        Yeah, this is evidenced by the wire drawn over the boards, so that when you hit this wire, the board with components should be broken in half.
        Usually, according to the requirements, the harnesses and cables are fixed on the supports or are wound on the side of the board, but this is ep .. Expensively, two beams must be made overspending.
      3. Alexander_
        Alexander_ 18 December 2015 23: 25
        0
        It seems that it was exactly the complete hose - we can see everything by the result.
  • Retvizan 8
    Retvizan 8 18 December 2015 20: 01
    0
    What's the use? Well, now, as always, we'll show everything, we'll tell everything. And we, as always, will be told "we do not believe" and this is where it all ends.
  • NordUral
    NordUral 18 December 2015 20: 14
    +1
    I think, as a simple person with a normal consciousness, unchanged by propaganda, that even if the Su-24 flew into Turkey for several seconds, this does not justify the Turks in any case. A precedent is shot down by the Syrians F-16 and the words of Erdogan on this occasion. And do not forget about international law. And Russia does not need to prove and show anything. Everything is clear here, like God's day.
    1. iouris
      iouris 18 December 2015 21: 17
      0
      Everything has been clear to everyone for a long time, but nothing has changed, because Bolivar could not stand the two, and our Gnadaya broke her leg.
  • cap
    cap 18 December 2015 21: 12
    +1
    I don’t understand what the problem is. Well, it’s not done so. The quality is not like that.
    Another question is what kind of stsuka broke it. It is that the pilots will be resurrected, or there is no other evidence to find.
    The show is certainly necessary for ... th. And there is evidence that they have already voiced in the Moscow Region.
    The extra nail will be hammered into Erdogan’s political career. I will be immensely glad.
    1. AlexAl
      AlexAl 18 December 2015 22: 24
      +5
      You are right.
      I am a designer, electronics developer, programmer, graduated from the Moscow Aviation Institute, and it offends me that such a product dishonors us Russians in front of developers from other countries and states. I think they (the developers) simply fall out of laughter from what we have provided.
      I do not care in this case, even though I am Belarus. I am ashamed in front of my grandfather for such crafts, he received 3 awards for the war for improving the design of TB3 YAK3 YAK9 and their repair, and after 12, thanks to him, he became reliable on the wing.
      1. T-73
        T-73 19 December 2015 00: 22
        +1
        Quote: AlexAl
        I am ashamed in front of my grandfather for such crafts

        It looks like a craft. Let's omit the quality of the boards, but cutting the connecting wires between the boards ... Why make an unbreakable case and sculpt a bunch of boards on 4 ends? Why can't they be connected to connectors? Each other. Rigid daddy-mom bond. Plastic connector housings would increase the collapse stiffness of the structure. And the ends of the boards are on the screws. Well, hang on a multi-layer damper. They poured it into foam (rather hard) ... Yes, when it was removed, it reminded me of one thing: for radio amateurs, in the 80s, they produced different designers, a set of radio components, a board, an instruction. This is how the sound corrector for a turntable looked like if I soldered two in pairs.
  • vik669
    vik669 18 December 2015 22: 14
    -1
    Quote: Oleg147741
    nifiga!

    The SU-24 was always equipped with a flight data recorder from the Izmeritel enterprise and not the Tester U3 (by the way, the main unit 3IM is not shown in the photo of the Tester U1.
  • Just BB
    Just BB 18 December 2015 23: 40
    -1
    Yes! Specialists in aviation were crushing - even for commenting, signalmen planted !? This was how it was necessary to lime the aviation engineering service ... Damn, they could not even show "work" in a human way! In two weeks I would have "written" such a flight that I did not have to show broken boards and display a big top!
    "Shame on the jungle" - not enough space to comment on everything
    1. Just BB
      Just BB 19 December 2015 17: 29
      0
      It would be interesting to see the reason for the "-"
  • Bonarienz
    Bonarienz 18 December 2015 23: 56
    +1
    If the chips themselves are preserved - crystals, even if cracked - they can be revived by the so-called. "needles". These are special settings for testing IC parameters. Those. It's not a problem.

    The design of the recorder is a clear evidence of the "cut". This is not an aircraft equipment, it was designed "cheaply and online", and it did not pass any tests "live". But I'm sure all the papers are in stock.

    I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out that they don't "write" anything at all ...

    AlexAl - I'm glad that there are still ours, Mayevs, in some places. I agree with all your reasoning. A department 404 - crying quietly, looking at the structure ...

    IMS series 133 - in metal-glass cases.
    On the memory board of this "pseudo-recorder" there is an IC in a metal-ceramic case, probably of the 1564 series, possibly made by the software "Integral", and this might be. decoder 3x8 - to select individual flash ICs via CS lines. There are just 8 of them.
    1. AlexAl
      AlexAl 19 December 2015 00: 42
      -1
      What worries me more about the inscriptions on the chips? BDD? It is interesting by what standards the RKD was done, so that such marking would be placed on the components? It seems that the student did the payment when preparing for the thesis or instead of the diploma work. By what standards are products so labeled?
  • Bonarienz
    Bonarienz 19 December 2015 01: 04
    +3
    It drank. Over the past year I have seen several examples of this. We ourselves tried to lust for such a thing, several times ...
    Everything is assembled by subcontractors of the third subcontractor, on the knee in the barn. Or in the nook of the workshop given to the market there is a knitting of a tow of prof.
    There are several offices that "carry out on paper" either import substitution, or "adaptation and testing" of imports ... They take dofig money ...

    You won’t write anything here ... I hope the supreme this universal shame is correctly described, and measures will be followed ...

    B is purely a prefix to look smarter. DD - pos. designation of digital IMS according to GOST. It is more interesting to "spy out" what kind of mikruha in metal-ceramics stands on the edge.

    Mb and not a student did, but an aunt, and by hand. And she had no idea about the rules for wiring memory, or about the features of aviation. equipment And the designer of the whole device is a stump peeled by a mossy half-rotten stump. (A lot of mat!)

    Once again - the Russian Aerospace Forces does not have reliable "black boxes"! And this is in the order of things.
    And this is a consequence of the fact that the Russian Federation does not have an electronic industry !!!
    As it was not in the USSR. What was - it was a show. And the West chuckled kindly in his mustache or palm.
    It was said that the minister of electronics was recruited by Matsushita-san himself (who is National Panasonic). And everyone who needed help helped him - they recruited and trained agents of influence ... So they lived with a 5-10-year lag, "copying layer by layer" ... The minister liked it ... Only the director of the Minsk Integral strongly resisted, and the Kiev Crystal I chemically quietly (series K157 and K1057) ...
  • AlexAl
    AlexAl 19 December 2015 01: 18
    -1
    And here is the developer himself and the name and parameters are blown http://www.izmeritel-smolensk.ru/?idc=1013&idp=1 bow-32 get a sign, with replenishment ...
    ♦ Protection of registered information in the event of an accident from impacts:
    -shock 1000 d,
    What is 1000 d? A thousand woodpeckers? In fact, not confirmed.

    Secure on-board parametric information storage Bow-32 (-01.-02)
    It is intended for direct replacement of the 2TB (2T-ЗМ) unit from the Tester UZ, Tester-M systems, while the overall and connecting characteristics are saved, the amount of information stored is increased up to 25 hours, the flight information reading time is significantly reduced.
    Depending on the application, various modifications are produced: BANT-32-01, BANT-32-02, differing in memory capacity.
    Provides
    ♦ Readout of flight data to modern data rewriting and processing devices such as "Topaz", AVEN-NM, etc. through the RS-485 interface at a speed of 115 Kbit / s.
    ♦ Reading and processing of information by the standard system "Luch-71".
    ♦ Protection of registered information in the event of an accident from impacts:
    -shock 1000 d,
    - penetrating impact (mass drop of 226 kg from a height of 3 m with a tip of 6,35 mm), - static load of 2260 kgf,
    -temperatures 1100 ° С at 100% surface coverage for 30 min,
    -pressure of sea water 60 MPa,
    - stay in sea water for 30 days,
    -aggressive liquids for 48 hours.
    Main Specifications
    ♦ Memory capacity, MB 32-64
    ♦ Writing speed, words / s 256 or 512
    ♦ Supply voltage, V 18-33
    ♦ Power consumption, W, no more than 12
    ♦ Overall dimensions, mm 192x220x190
    ♦ Weight, kg, no more than 6,9


    Who is there and what about the tester-knots rubbed me? Do not want to apologize?
    1. AlexAl
      AlexAl 19 December 2015 01: 28
      -1
      Yes, and the GPS parameters in the version that they disassembled does it write?
    2. Rus2012
      Rus2012 19 December 2015 12: 51
      -2
      Quote: AlexAl
      Who is there and what about the tester-knots rubbed me? Do not want to apologize?

      ... blind or pretending to be a State Department troll -
      Secure on-board parametric information storage Bow-32 (-01.-02)
      Intended for direct replacement of the 2TB block (2Т-ЗМ) from the UZ tester system
      1. AlexAl
        AlexAl 19 December 2015 15: 01
        +1
        Blind you yourself hamlo
        . Look at the time you wrote. Such generals just fall.
  • Bonarienz
    Bonarienz 19 December 2015 01: 22
    -1
    Well cho, cool! Here they have conductive burning !!! But they are, it seems, manufacturers ... The developer is someone else ... And, quite possibly, Moscow ... And maybe, the same as Phobos-Grunt "riveted" ...

    I looked! I want to see it !!! That's right - now the plant and its head will be the switchman, and the developers will probably get out ...

    Where did the RS-485 come from? Who suggested this, who agreed, who introduced it? And where is their head?
    After all, there is our analogue MIL-STD-1553. And there is a former radio industry office, which knows how to bake these joints on the basis of CMOS BMK, certified and glad. persistent?
    1. AlexAl
      AlexAl 19 December 2015 01: 30
      -1
      Yeah, and this piece on the floor of the lama sold (my idle thoughts). And then there is not enough for a new Mercedes for just one salary.
      1. AlexAl
        AlexAl 22 December 2015 02: 15
        0
        And I was not wrong. The recruited bow32 02 state purchases and we see 2014 5.1 million rubles for 11 products. Total about 500tyr "http://gostorgi.ru/31400949279"
    2. AlexAl
      AlexAl 19 December 2015 01: 37
      -1
      This is the cs signal decoder in google, there is a photo there you can clearly see what goes to each mikruzh memory. Here she is
  • Bonarienz
    Bonarienz 19 December 2015 01: 31
    -1
    Don't be so nervous ... Everything is in the past already ... Although the "objective reality" is terrifying ... Well, cho, it seems, "fix it" ... Or take a shovel and a soldering iron ...
  • Bonarienz
    Bonarienz 19 December 2015 01: 36
    -1
    Half a lyama? Are you kidding, adit? The second thermal imaging module without acceptance and TU 800 tyrov costs, but here such a technique is nano-take-out-no-state! No less than a couple of lyamas - they also roll away airplanes - for consent to implementation.
    1. AlexAl
      AlexAl 19 December 2015 01: 42
      -1
      Well, I'm a modest guy. I do not need a Mercedes for one salary, and for two if that. I’m going to blame and I don’t want to blame anyone. I sometimes like it here. But there will be no one to call the State Department’s identity either, they themselves will not, certainly they will not.
    2. AlexAl
      AlexAl 19 December 2015 01: 46
      -1
      And the slogan they need is the pattern of success.

      I hope that I get the info, though it is about nothing without the parameters Ins and gps or glonas.
  • Bonarienz
    Bonarienz 19 December 2015 01: 41
    -1
    Then it’s 1564ID7 - 54HC138A ... Most likely, Integralovsky ... It looks like 7, 9 ... 15 on the legs. And the outputs are inverse ...

    Fantasy! And this is what they are doing in the country that R-116 came up with! 4 lamps, from a helicopter - onto the rocks, and a key from under the water ... Where are we going? ..
    1. AlexAl
      AlexAl 19 December 2015 01: 55
      -1
      I didn’t repair it. True, we are still ahead. Is-3 was also removed from the monument and drove off.
  • Bonarienz
    Bonarienz 19 December 2015 01: 46
    0
    It’s even worse for me - I’ve grown up where they want to blame ... Here, too, we are trying to make something of our own furnace ... They started with the warriors - we can’t spit ... Especially when they saw the current level of affairs there, in the state unitary enterprises of various kinds ...
    1. AlexAl
      AlexAl 19 December 2015 01: 50
      -1
      Don’t worry - until 2024 you’re still far away, you’ll get used to it. Fighters as they were and will not fight anywhere!
  • Bonarienz
    Bonarienz 19 December 2015 01: 56
    -1
    Yes old already, only wonder left ... And what will happen in 2024?
    1. AlexAl
      AlexAl 19 December 2015 01: 58
      0
      State defense order will end and the army will be what is needed.
  • Bonarienz
    Bonarienz 19 December 2015 01: 59
    -1
    For reference - I, the scripts in the browser are disabled - therefore, only new messages. Just registered today ... Private yet ... Or a cadet? The webmaster is really a horse. The worst combination is red and green. It must be done wisely ...
  • Bonarienz
    Bonarienz 19 December 2015 02: 01
    -1
    Aha! The order will end, the grandmother will gobble up - and what and how will it work? Priests in the industry are already on fire, but now, I hope, the real "distribution" will go!

    Hmm, interestingly, censorship works here ... He throws out words ... I’m nervous because I turn off scripts ...
    1. AlexAl
      AlexAl 19 December 2015 02: 09
      -1
      Everything is written in the rules - it works and helps actively, and this is correct, as I think.
      1. Bonarienz
        Bonarienz 19 December 2015 02: 29
        -1
        ABOUT! It seems to work out ...
      2. AlexAl
        AlexAl 22 December 2015 02: 17
        0
        A rus2012 provocateur where to do? And then there are answers, but there is no provocateur.
  • linen
    linen 19 December 2015 06: 52
    +1
    In vain RUSSIA beads tossing in front of these NATO PIG!
    1. Just BB
      Just BB 19 December 2015 07: 42
      0
      This is not Russia, but brainless "effective" ones!
      And it turned out with them as always! The country was framed.
  • midivan
    midivan 19 December 2015 08: 38
    +5
    judging by the comments, I don’t understand, we have only schoolchildren in this field (military electronics), and here all the professors are gathered, maybe for a start we’ll wait for the results of the decryption of this thing, and then to fault or praise the specialists, and it seems to me there all the same, they understood that this device could undergo such loads, and if they did it as it is, then that also made sense hi
  • Hitrovan07
    Hitrovan07 19 December 2015 10: 59
    0
    And if on Monday it will be said that the Su-24 was shot down over the territory of Syria ???
    That our VKS will strike at aviation (and / or airfields) of Turkey ???
    Or again "sanctions" will be introduced on Turkish junk ???
  • linen
    linen 20 December 2015 07: 19
    -2
    So I DO NOT understand why WE are in front of NATO PIG sword beads!