Media: India will procure 5 C-400 complexes

Indian authorities approved the purchase of five C-400 complexes in the Russian Federation, said RIA News An informed source close to the country's defense ministry.

In Russia, the possible delivery of the latest air defense systems to India has not yet commented.

Recently, Hindustan Time newspaper reported on the approval of the transaction by the Committee on Defense Procurement of India.

“The meeting of the defense procurement committee began today at 11.30 (09.00 Moscow time). The committee has already approved the acquisition of five C-400 complexes, ”a source said.

According to him, "the amount of the transaction can be about 390 billion rupees (about $ 5,8 billion)."

"This question will become central during the visit of Prime Minister Narendra Modi to Russia and will give a start to the discussion of the terms of the contract," the source added.

The agency recalls that the previously announced position of the Russian leadership was that the C-400 system would not be sold abroad until the needs of the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation were met. An exception is made only for China, with whom the supply contract has already been agreed.

Comments

[A-Sim]

The process has started.

[avg]

The sale of such things as the S-400, must be determined by some conditions that we need.
How Indians determine many purchases by transferring the technology they need.

[Atrix]

Explain to me why they should supply the latest weapons to such countries only recently they themselves accepted this complex. Sell ​​C-300, adopt the new C-500 complex and put it into the army then and sell C-400. And then tomorrow Washington will get to him and come up with countermeasures for his planes. I don’t understand why to sell my latest weapon.

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: Atrix

Explain to me why they should supply the latest weapons to such countries only recently they themselves accepted this complex. Sell ​​the S-300, adopt the new S-500 complex and put it in the army then and sell the S-400. And then tomorrow Washington will get to him and come up with countermeasures for his planes. I don’t understand why to sell my latest weapon.

By selling the latest weapons to one country, you can automatically get a contract with others. Look at the sale of the S-400 to China, immediately and India wanted to purchase this system in order to keep up. Tomorrow Pakistan will want to buy in order to keep up with India. Then maybe someone else wants the next one, total a huge package of orders for the years ahead for Almaz-Antey.

[volodimer]

And yet, the s-300 resource has not been exhausted, I’m sure that by motivating that there are not enough s-400s, they will be able to sell the latter first (i.e. export versions of s-300), with an agreement on the subsequent, sooner, but with time delivery and C -400.

[gleb0606]

Well, not quite so 43% is only in the federal budget, and in the federal taxes from the regions are practically not taken into account.

[Hon]

Quote: Atrix

Explain to me why they should supply the latest weapons to such countries only recently they themselves accepted this complex. Sell ​​the S-300, adopt the new S-500 complex and put it in the army then and sell the S-400. And then tomorrow Washington will get to him and come up with countermeasures for his planes. I don’t understand why to sell my latest weapon.

oil is cheap, money is needed, the S-300 do not want, they want the S-400. funds are also needed for the development of the S-500.

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: Hon

oil is cheap, money is needed, the S-300 do not want, they want the S-400. funds are also needed for the development of the S-500.

You won’t earn much money with military orders. Russia sells weapons worth $ 15 billion a year, this is revenue, if you subtract the costs of costs and taxes, the net profit will be much less.
As for the sale of oil, the share of oil and gas revenues in the budget is as follows, by years:
http://www.vestifinance.ru/infographics/4003
2015 47%
2016 43%
Russia's budget for 2015 is just over 15 trillion rubles. (15/100) * 47 = 7,05 trillion rubles of the budget are formed at the expense of oil and gas.
In dollars, it is 99 billion 290 million 800 thousand dollars.

[BABA SHURA]

Russia sells, always cheaper than competitors ... WHY? ..

[VP]

15 billion bucks is a trillion rubles.
This is by the way about "you won't earn much".
And the rate of return on export orders is many times higher than with the delivery for the Ministry of Defense. It's not about tens of percent, it's about hundreds of percent.

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: VP

And the rate of return on export orders is many times higher than with the delivery for the Ministry of Defense. It's not about tens of percent, it's about hundreds of percent.

Yes, prices for export products are higher than for the Russian Ministry of Defense, but the prime cost is the same. Of these 15 billion dollars, net profit will be 2-3 billion, or even less, without knowing the cost, margins, reports on shipped products, it is difficult to accurately predict net profit)

Quote: VP

15 billion bucks is a trillion rubles.
This is by the way about "you won't earn much".

So what? Only taxes come to the country's budget, revenues are mainly invested in R&D, modernization of the production base, etc. etc.
How many of these 15 billion dollars go directly or indirectly to the budget? Very little, obviously up to $ 99 billion in oil and gas.

[VP]

Quote: Lt. air force reserve

Yes, prices for export products are higher than for the Russian Ministry of Defense, but the prime cost is the same.

Let's think together.
So, given:
The Ministry of Defense buys weapons more expensive than the factory cost. Those. the enterprise has a profit.
The export supply of the same products is many times more expensive than for the Ministry of Defense.
You need to guess: is it true that there is no difference in profit where to supply if "the same cost"?

Quote: Lt. air force reserve

Of these 15 billion dollars, net profit will be 2-3 billion, or even less, without knowing the cost, margins, reports on shipped products, it is difficult to accurately predict net profit)

1. Profit on export deliveries is hundreds of percent, depending on the type of weapon. In fact, it is much more profitable than dope.
2. The cost price is also interesting. The cost includes a lot of positions. Like, for example, salary. With which taxes are paid. And which are included in the cost. Yes, in general, a lot of taxes are included in the prime cost except VAT and income tax.
Contributions to fixed assets. Which allow you to maintain the state of production.
Training costs.
Costs of equipment workplace.
Etc. etc.
Those. and profit is not 2 billion, and the state has revenues. Mama Do not Cry With the taxes alone, both those sitting at cost and imposed on profits. And the manufacturer is not in a burnout at all.
Another point: the larger the series, the lower the cost. This is the foundation of the economy. That is why any manufacturing company is striving to die for foreign markets.

Quote: Lt. air force reserve

So what? Only taxes come to the country's budget, revenues are mainly invested in R&D, modernization of the production base, etc., etc.

1. The more profit the more taxes.
2. R&D, modernization, etc. they are needed in any case, and much better when the enterprise has as much funds as it needs and does not need to get into loans or beg the government.
3. In addition to this, taxes also come from R&D and modernization (they are paid from the wages funds of designers involved in R&D, they are paid by suppliers of materials, products and services that are required for modernization)
3. The figure is a trillion rubles ... From one order ... For comparison, this is the total budget of a good dozen regions. Not gross regional product, but only regional budgets, but also a wow amount.

Quote: Lt. air force reserve

clearly up to $ 99 billion in oil and gas.

I don’t understand at all. You argue that the Russian Federation should not develop its high-tech and high-tech industries, do not grow its design staff, do not increase its competence in competitive markets, but stupidly sell oil because it has more turnover? Well, what can I say ... I end this discussion.

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: VP

I don’t understand at all. You argue that the Russian Federation should not develop its high-tech and high-tech industries, do not grow its design staff, do not increase its competence in competitive markets, but stupidly sell oil because it has more turnover? Well, what can I say ... I end this discussion.

The defense sector can never replace oil and gas revenues. The entire annual global arms market is less than our oil and gas revenues.
Armaments can fill the Russian budget, but thanks to them alone, we will not be able to get off the "oil needle". We need to develop high-tech consumer goods: microchips, telephones, etc. The capacity of the consumer market, hundreds of billions if not trillions of dollars, is where the possibility of diversifying the economy lies, away from the raw material base.

[Ami du peuple]

Quote: Atrix

I don’t understand why to sell my latest weapon.

In the alphanumeric index of the designation of such weapons, there is always such a small letter "e" - "export" Bukovka is small, and the combat capabilities are seriously curtailed. There is no reason for panic - we will sell one export version of the complex, and for the proceeds we will manufacture two full-fledged ones for our own aircraft. And all for real money, not in debt.
I see no reason for sadness.

[mav1971]

Quote: Ami du peuple

Quote: Atrix

I don’t understand why to sell my latest weapon.

In the alphanumeric designation of such weapons, there is always such a small letter "e" - "export" Bukovka is small, and the combat capabilities are seriously curtailed.

Forget this nonsense, nothing has been cut back for the last 30 years.
take what meets the needs.
Because. that they pay their hard-earned fabulous money.
Or 5.5. billions of dollars you can throw in your trash?
Consciously buying the worst specs?
At such a cost, competitors are not so difficult to find.
Which will sell full weapons.

They can buy a version with previously reduced or the same. or vice versa with enhanced features.

Depending on your needs.
As an example.
If technology does not need a level of frost resistance in the jungles of Africa, then this is not done. It is becoming cheaper, and for some, especially gifted, there is reason to say about worse performance.

[Lenivets]

"Forget this nonsense, nothing has been cut for the last 30 years."

Better you forget the nonsense that you wrote.
Export options are truncated and very thorough.

ps And unlike you, I say this from personal experience, rather than operating with pseudological messages.

[mav1971]

Quote: Lenivets

"Forget this nonsense, nothing has been cut for the last 30 years."

Better you forget the nonsense that you wrote.
Export options are truncated and very thorough.

ps And unlike you, I say this from personal experience, rather than operating with pseudological messages.

Su-30 MKI - as far as I think the characteristics at the time of the conclusion of the contract exceeded everything. what happened in Russia. Delivered to India.
T-90С for the same India. But only now not everyone knows that the Indians demanded to make a hodgepodge and with developments on the T-90СМ, which at that time was not. And there was no 4 year.
About that. how did the Swedes sell their latest and probably the best VNU installation in the world for installation on Japanese submarines Soryu?
Or are the French building submarines together with the Brazilians?
Or the same French leklerki for Qatar, superior to all in all respects?
Or Israeli barracks for the same india?
Or Patriots for Greece or Turkey - also the second grade.

Full of examples.

[Lenivets]

“About how the Swedes sold their newest and probably the best in the world installation of the VNU for installation on Japanese submarines Soryu?
Or are the French building submarines together with the Brazilians?
Or the same French leklerki for Qatar, superior to all in all respects?
Or Israeli barracks for the same india?
Or the Patriots for Greece or Turkey are also second class. "

What, this meaningless set of letters, has to do with export variants of Russian military equipment?

Further, he is not an expert on tanks and airplanes, but I don’t need to fill the tanks with air defense, for this I wrote to you in the previous message "p.s ...".

[Reserve officer]

Andrey, this just says that C-400 is not our latest developments anymore. Then, if I am not mistaken, the total amount from the sale of arms in the 2014 year exceeded 15 billion. This, of course, is not comparable with the gas 50 billion and oil 150 billion (approximately, according to open sources). But quite good money.
Moreover, armament is a high-tech production with advanced technological support. I don’t even speak about salaries for extra-class specialists.
I well remember when in the 90's, at a meeting of the defense research institute, the director in all seriousness declared that we needed to deal with conversion, pots, that now we had no one to fight with.
As a result, two dozen years later, everyone knows.
And this director is now an academician. Crawled into the RAS, distributing state. financing among related companies, since the institute was the leading one in its industry.
The comment turned out to be verbose, but just the topic is close.

[Lt. Air Force stock]

Quote: Reserve officer

S-400 is not our latest development

+ In addition, export versions with truncated performance characteristics are always sold.

[Talgat]

Quote: Atrix

Explain to me why they should supply the latest weapons to such countries only recently they themselves accepted this complex.

I think that delivering things like c-400 is pure geopolitics

Such complexes are close in their influence to strategic weapons and violate or create a balance of forces in the regions

I think that Russia is selling them not because of money, but because of geopolitics

Russia's goal is to pull India out of US influence. Pull her to the BRICS. It is also important for China that India did not buy Patriots and non-Amerian missile defense systems — but at least depended on Russia for servicing systems such as the 400 — and it’s always easier to talk together. but if they start buying purely Amer’s, then the war becomes much closer

[Pajamas]

Quote: Talgat

Russia's goal is to pull India out of US influence. Pull her to the BRICS.

Pull India to BRICS and you are a strategist. That is, pulling her to the organization in which she is already a participant is fresh. India is a sovereign state with an independent policy, they will want to buy the S-400, they will buy Russia and attract other preferences.

[Grandson of Veteran]

"... To pull India to the BRICS yes you are a strategist ..." What has a strategist to do with it? This refers to the consolidation of India's interests in participating in this bloc. "Strategist" here you are, apparently ...

[Pajamas]

Quote: Grandson of Veteran

"... To pull India to the BRICS yes you are a strategist ..." What has a strategist to do with it? This refers to the consolidation of India's interests in participating in this bloc. "Strategist" here you are, apparently ...

Do you justify illiteracy with verbiage? And then India itself will not figure out where its interests are, you will plunge into the topic, the Indians are buying weapons around the world. I’m just not a Strategist, unlike you, I don’t give geopolitical advice, don’t tear through the sofa))

[prostofily]

Although we figure out you figure out what is the most modern and how much flies.

[mav1971]

Quote: Atrix

I don’t understand why to sell my latest weapon. [/ B]

Because the old is cheap and everyone has it full and everyone is trying to get rid of it.
Because. what's new - they want! And they want to pay money precisely for those characteristics that are relevant today and will be relevant for 20-25 for years to come.
and money is paid by their hard-earned money. Earned. Not found on the road. These are 5.5. billion bucks in India could well find application in the economy.
But if the defense is good. For the future.

C-300 - nobody really needs anyone right now.
For development began in the late 60's. Those ideas, albeit for the future, but a look at the application of those times.
even modernized. But the foundation is still the same.
Since then, much has changed. The concept of network-centric wars, electronic warfare equipment appeared, finally inconspicuous aircraft appeared, cruise missiles appeared in a large number and assortment.
C-400 - ideas much closer to realities and relative to the future.
Therefore, it is he who is needed. And not the junk for which you pay and hell knows how he will behave in 15 years. when almost all countries will have 5 generation planes.

[just exp]

Do not confuse export versions with internal ones, it differs in TTX.

[cayman gene]

Quote: Atrix

Explain to me why they should supply the latest weapons to such countries only recently they themselves accepted this complex. Sell ​​C-300, adopt the new C-500 complex and put it into the army then and sell C-400. And then tomorrow Washington will get to him and come up with countermeasures for his planes. I don’t understand why to sell my latest weapon.

I explain, an informed source close to min. defense is nobody and there’s nothing to call him. ordinary ass-zvizdobol.
s-400 to the Indians? it’s not horse feed, they’ll wake up with something simpler, until they have satiated their own army, no one uses modern weapons, not that the Indians, Belarusians and Kazakhs will not be able to smell. so calm down and don't vibrate.

[VP]

What does it mean recently?
Four hundred years old is eight years old. The troops already have two hundred launchers.
The next generation is taking the next generation, the S-500. And why not to start up the serial production of billions received from the sale of the previous model?
And yes, complexes with truncated characteristics are exported.

[Inok10]

Quote: VP

And yes, complexes with truncated characteristics are exported.

..and they never came to Algeria .. .. it was a "duck" .. and, here is the photo with which this news was decorated, it was more than eloquent .. the second from the left is the Mulyazim of the Syrian army, according to our Major .. pay attention to the shoulder strap "missed" retouched and belts, these are army belts of the Syrian army .. a fragment of that photo on the background of PU 5P85TE2 ..

[Inok10]

.. and, here is a photo of the Algerian military from the 2013 news of hostage-taking at the factory .. the belts are similar, but completely different ..

[Приговор]

Hence, it is not the last. Everything is very simple. RF "last" never sells to anyone ..;))

[Pilat2009]

Quote: Atrix

Sell ​​S-300, adopt the new S-500 complex

S-300 is already uninteresting to anyone, except maybe Iran, and China is also producing clones.
Money is needed for further development. As for countermeasures, export models are different. You can even slightly adjust the frequencies. In general, the basic principle of the complexes has been studied for a long time, only the control algorithms are constantly being improved. Well, the Yankees will study this complex, after 5 years they’ll put something on the conveyor with PMU-5 index for example

[Lord of the Sith]

As I understand it, "complexes" are divisions? Then it turns out 40 PU.

[Inok10]

Quote: Lord of the Sith

As I understand it, "complexes" are divisions? Then it turns out 40 PU.

.. it is unlikely that it will be "naked" 5 divisions .. it's like a Bride without a dowry .. how to link it with other air defense systems in India ?! .. so in the dowry "Polyana" or "Baikal" .. the latter can still direct up to 3 fighter regiments in the compartment to the rest, India has SU 30MKI, but without "Rubezh ME" with "Baikal" you will not fade, as far as it does not change me memory .. and without a tower with air defense, a "naked" division, even the S-400? .. so, we are waiting for details, I am sure for 5 divisions, there will also be "three wagons" of RTV equipment and every "creature in pairs" ..

[Lord of the Sith]

So it’s just clear that they’re not naked ...

[Denis Obukhov]

Hindus well done, they know who to be friends with! Too never have too much in common with us ... And they would have to put more * special * missiles and an agreement on collective defense like NATO. I would also like to wish India to work more in the tourism sector and reach a high level in this matter ..

[Uran]

dear colossus! I don’t think they can copy it. after all, the quick-eyed failed to copy even from -300.

[Oleg Lavrov]

Blow under the breath to the Americans !! )) I hope Mac Kane has enough blow from impotent malice !!

[Lord of the Sith]

Quote: Oleg Lavrov

Blow under the breath to the Americans !! )) I hope Mac Kane has enough blow from impotent malice !!

Rather, a balance with China.

[venaya]

“The transaction amount could be about 390 billion rupees (about $ 5,8 billion)”

This is the most important thing. And with the Indians, in principle, we should not have any contradictions on practically any issues.

[Alexander 3]

So there are developments on more advanced air defense systems.

[Dimon19661]

Drugan Indians, I remember how they lashed with them in Vlad.

[Barakuda]

If China can, then why not sell India? I hope not to the detriment of Russian air defense. The same officers need to be taught Indian, also the money is not weak.

[Lt. Air Force stock]

5 complexes are 5 divisions? 40 launchers with 160 rockets on them, not bad. Naturally, India will deploy the systems on the border with Pakistan and China.

[Phantom Revolution]

Quote: Lt. air force reserve

5 complexes are 5 divisions? 40 launchers with 160 rockets on them, not bad. Naturally, India will deploy the systems on the border with Pakistan and China.

We also forgot about the stock of missiles in the warehouse, probably at least 12 missiles for each launcher.

[polite people]

500 and I are on the way.

[chunga-changa]

It's just that the C-300 is no longer interested in the main players.

[Plato]

5 complexes for 5 billion - is it not expensive? Are there errors in the total amount? Iran 4 C-300 cost less than a billion.

[Lenivets]

Rather, 5 regiment sets (10 divisions), plus the S-400 is much more expensive than the S-300.

[Panabebis]

I hope the deal will be completed. Hindus are a reliable export! Thanks to them, our defense industry has revived!

[FINN74]

And Pakistan has 5 more, and there will be norms.

[X Y Z]

If only they would not agree to the transfer of some technologies and further local production, which Indians usually require. Selling such a new and perfect system is already a worthy reward, and bargaining is inappropriate here.

[raketnik]

people don’t need to panic .... there anyway the export kit will go .... well what to yell .....

[mamont5]

Quote: Atrix

Explain to me why they should supply the latest weapons to such countries only recently they themselves accepted this complex. Sell ​​C-300

C-300 has been discontinued, and C-400 has already been promised to the Chinese. So, everything is correct to maintain equilibrium in the region.

[Vadim237]

They produce from 300 for export - so they didn’t take it off.

[Lenivets]

They do not produce it (with the exception of the military Antei-2500 (S-300V), which no one needs).

[kamski]

You don’t have to choose, the economy of the pipe collapsed, there is no industry ... what will be the question tomorrow. You have to sell everything you buy.

[_my opinion]

firstly, the decision to sell has not yet been made,
and secondly:

[dchegrinec]

The Hindus are modest about something. They began to try everything on a teaspoon! All the same, they will not get away from us anywhere.

[Sultan Babai]

The country needs money to develop new types of weapons, gentlemen, the world does not stand still, this must be remembered. Lack of money has been felt since the beginning of 2015, if not earlier (I work as a lawyer and I know statistics of claims for non-payments), but now these are fantastic oil prices that are persistently underestimated by our partners. It is good that we have such buyers who buy with us all the time and in large amounts. One may be offended that ours lost some tenders in India, but this is a lesson for us that we don’t need to relax and bathe in our own vanity (such as which we are the smartest, we are smart, but we don’t have to stand still).

[driving]

Interestingly, and closed their holes in the air defense?

[VP]

Quote: driving

Interestingly, and closed their holes in the air defense?

And what holes bother you?
Two hundred and 400s are already on combat duty.
In addition to them, there are as many 300 P4s (modernized three hundred with a launch range of up to 400 km), in the region of thousands of other S-300 launchers - PMU and others. This is for long-range air defense systems.
According to the medium-range air defense system, several hundred beeches, the S-350 will go next year.
For short range is also enough.
Where do you see the holes?
We have only about a million people in the army. Do you want everyone to serve in air defense or something?

[Lenivets]

I agree, but a few clarifications:

"Besides them, the same 300 P4 ..."
Not P4, but B4.

"other S-300 - PMU, etc."
Not PMU, but PM (PMU is an export option).

[VP]

Sorry, in a hurry from a smart pumped up, at the same time curling Pithek on another resource)
Even the numbers of three hundred complexes have not been verified, there are more of them

[Former battalion commander]

The Russian leadership seems to want to sit on two chairs - both China and India ... not realizing that thereby worsens relations with China and India. Such manipulations would have been justified in the REAL pacification of India and China ... But this was not there and NEVER will be. Then they are surprised that the Chinese are pulling the silk road past them, they are not buying gas, the military are not selling microchips ...

[da Vinci]

Quote: Atrix

Explain to me why they should supply the latest weapons to such countries only recently they themselves accepted this complex. Sell ​​C-300, adopt the new C-500 complex and put it into the army then and sell C-400. And then tomorrow Washington will get to him and come up with countermeasures for his planes. I don’t understand why to sell my latest weapon.

"Hindi-rusi, phai-phai ..." This is the maximum that the Indians will do for Russia. But there was ANYWHERE direct and unconditional support from India to Russia in the political and military aspects, incl. and at the UN. The level of corruption in India is enormous, this was observed more than once during tenders for military equipment, and the fact that India is working very closely with the Arabs and the United States is not a secret for anyone.

[sharp-lad]

Indians help by buying and do not threaten. This is quite enough.

[PatriotKZ]

I am sure they are selling an export version.

[Murad05]

Why sell S-400 when you can S-300? Our aircraft recently just adopted this complex, and are already exporting. Or does it have its own nuances?