Military Review

Army will get new capping for projectiles

86
As part of the ongoing modernization of the armed forces, it is proposed to supply not only new equipment and equipment. weaponbut also various aids. Recently it became known that the Ministry of Defense plans to switch over to the use of a new container for ammunition over time. Instead of the usual wooden closures, it is proposed to use for storage and transportation new boxes of the original design.


Deputy Defense Minister General of the Army Dmitry Bulgakov told about the plans to switch to a new container for ammunition. According to the deputy minister, next year the military department plans to begin the full-scale use of new closures for ammunition. In the foreseeable future, only some types of projectiles, etc. will be delivered in new boxes. products. New closures have already been tested and can now be used in the army.

D. Bulgakov also spoke about some features of the new packaging. According to him, new closures are made of modern materials, which in their characteristics are superior to wood. The main advantage over existing wooden boxes is fire resistance. The Deputy Minister of Defense explained that thanks to the use of special materials, the new box is able to withstand a flame for up to 15 ° C for 500 minutes. This will allow the fire brigade to arrive in time to the site of the fire and prevent the negative consequences of fire. Also, the use of new containers will increase the storage time of ammunition. When placed in storage, a new closure will last for 50 years.

Army will get new capping for projectiles
General view of a new capping with a projectile


By the present, according to D. Bulgakov, military tests of two types of new boxes have been carried out. The military checked tare for artillery shells of caliber 152 and 30 mm. The closures of the new type are recognized as meeting the requirements, which opens the way for the troops. According to the test results, it was decided to supply new 30 and 152 mm caliber shells in new closures.

Soon, photos of promising packaging for artillery shots of separate loading appeared in free access. As follows from these photos, when developing a new container, it was decided to create unified boxes with the possibility of relatively simple adaptation to a specific ammunition. To do this, the capping consists of several main parts: a unified box and lid, as well as inserts, lodgments, in which the "payload" is fixed.

The main elements of the perspective closure is a special plastic box of rectangular oblong shape. The dimensions of this product are designed so that it can fit various types of ammunition. Thus, the photographs show that 152-mm and 122-mm projectiles can be transported in boxes of the same size with different lodgments.

The main box and its lid are made of a special composite material, the type and composition of which has not yet been clarified. In discussions news There are various assumptions about closures, but they still have no acceptable evidence. Perhaps the new box is proposed to be made of fiberglass with special additives that increase strength and provide resistance to the flame. Thus, resistance to heat, including contact with open fire, is ensured, first of all, by the outer “shell” of the closure.

The outer box is made of two parts of similar shape, but of different sizes: the lid has a lower height compared to the main box. To increase the strength and rigidity of the structure, numerous protrusions are enveloped around the box and the lid. On the sides of the main box, notches are provided, which are proposed to be used as carrying handles. The box and the lid are joined to each other by means of a protrusion and a recess extending around the connection perimeter. In this case, the lid is equipped with a rubber seal, sealing the container. Between themselves, they are connected with a set of folding locks. On the long sides of the closure, three such devices are envisaged, on the short ones - two.

Inside the box and the lid are covered with a layer of fibrous material, which can be additional thermal insulation. Thus, the case of the box protects the contents from open fire, and the internal insulation prevents it from overheating. In addition, it is likely that thermal insulation plays the role of a compactor, which provides a more dense fit of the insert.


Another closure option for a smaller caliber projectile


For rigid fixation of the payload inside the new closure, it is proposed to use two plastic lodgments placed in the box and its lid. These products provide for excavations of appropriate shapes and sizes, in which the projectile and cartridge case or other products supplied to the troops should be placed. The closures shown in the existing photographs have a curious feature: on the “working” surface of their liners, next to the main grooves, additional grooves and protrusions are provided. With their help, the correct docking of the lodgements is ensured and their shift relative to each other is prevented.

Currently, there are versions of such products for several types of artillery shells, and in the future new modifications may appear with updated liners adapted to accommodate a different payload, up to small arms cartridges, hand grenades, etc.

The proposed closure design allows to successfully solve the main problems of transportation, storage and use of various types of ammunition. Durable plastic outer shell of the box provides protection from mechanical damage, as well as, unlike wood, does not burn and is able to withstand high temperatures for a long time. Sealing joints prevents moisture from entering the box and thus protects its contents from corrosion. Finally, there is an advantage in service life. Declared the possibility of using new closures for 50 years.

New plastic closures for ammunition should replace existing wooden products. For this reason, in numerous discussions of innovation, attempts are being made to compare old wooden and new plastic boxes. It turns out that in some cases new closures may indeed be better than old ones, but from the point of view of other features, they lose to them.

Perhaps the greatest interest is the abandonment of wood to meet the challenges of fire safety. Indeed, there are regular fires in ammunition depots, which result in the destruction of a large number of projectiles, as well as the destruction of buildings. In addition, many times during such events, people, both military and residents of nearby settlements, suffered. For this reason, the resilience of new boxes to the fire could be considered a very useful innovation, which, with certain reservations, may even justify the existing disadvantages.

However, the absence of any wooden elements in some situations can turn into a disadvantage. Devastated wooden capping for ammunition has traditionally been not only a multifunctional container, but also a source of wood. Wooden boxes can be used by troops to solve various tasks. With their help, you can build some objects, such as dugouts, trenches, etc., and the disassembled box becomes firewood. Plastic containers can be used for construction, but it will not be possible to warm up or cook food with it.


Fire tests


An important feature of the new closure is a lower weight. Due to the use of a relatively thin plastic casing and liners of similar materials, significant weight savings can be achieved in comparison with wooden packaging.

When evaluating new packaging for ammunition, it is necessary to consider not only the compliance with the requirements and some additional “consumer characteristics”, but also the cost. Unfortunately, at the moment information about the price of new boxes is missing. There is some information about orders for various packagings for the armed forces, but they cannot be directly tied to new boxes. Nevertheless, it is obvious that promising plastic containers should be noticeably more expensive than traditional wooden ones. How much is still unknown.

According to the statements of the Deputy Minister of Defense, this year, the troops checked two options for new closures. These products are designed for transporting 30 and 152 caliber shells. The tests were successful, resulting in the decision to use the new packaging in the future. Next year, the armed forces should receive the first batch of artillery shells packed in new boxes. In addition, there is information about the existence of capping for 122-mm projectiles, and the design of this product allows you to build boxes for other products. Thus, in the foreseeable future, new types of closures may appear.

According to the military, promising closures are fully compliant and will be available from next year. What will be the pace of deliveries of the new container and whether it will be able to completely replace the existing wooden boxes is not completely clear. Nevertheless, there is every reason to believe that promising closures can not only get into the troops, but also win back a noticeable place in warehouses from traditional containers.


On the materials of the sites:
http://vz.ru/
http://vpk-news.ru/
http://redstar.ru/
http://twower.livejournal.com/
Author:
Photos used:
Twower.livejournal.com
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  1. Humpty
    Humpty 11 December 2015 06: 46 New
    12
    Wooden crates have another undesirable property. They sometimes rot. Heat-resistant plastics can significantly increase the storage safety of shells.
    1. Grizli-666
      Grizli-666 11 December 2015 07: 09 New
      18
      Not only will increase safety, but also allows you to reuse containers after firing. It is clear that during the great war no one will bother with the collection and delivery of containers to the factory. But after numerous exercises (and possibly even local conflicts), shells can be re-packaged.
      1. PAM
        PAM 11 December 2015 09: 16 New
        +3
        nonsense new packaging for 30 mm shells, nakoy? Modern containers are needed only for expensive shells (for example, guided ones) or for special forces (for example, with diversionary sorties, weight will be of great importance) or as an option for the Navy where moisture and salt are an aggressive factor and also as an option for export shipments to tropical countries .
        can reload shells
        it’s what kind of logistics you need to have, which in combat conditions will still fail, and it will probably be more expensive than re-building wooden boxes at the factory (thank God we have a lot of forests, and if you start to make them from waste from the woodworking industry ) than deliver the container back. In addition, geometrically empty containers are probably not very correct in terms of the fact that after the contents are removed, they cannot be geometrically changed (for example, they cannot be reduced in size by folding one half into the other). The lodgement could also be made universal for two or three calibers, not to mention for different types of shells. Fires and explosions in warehouses usually occurred before inspection or due to negligence (violation of blood safety rules and storage technology).
        1. Griboedoff
          Griboedoff 11 December 2015 10: 27 New
          +7
          Quote: PAM
          this is what kind of logistics you need to have, which in combat conditions will still fail

          And why in combat conditions this logistics? Well, manage to take out - good. No, they left it on the battlefield. But in peacetime, you can safely collect and take it out for reuse. And no special logistics are needed for this. In the meantime, thank God, the consumption of ammunition in Russia, primarily, in exercises.
        2. Alexey RA
          Alexey RA 11 December 2015 11: 55 New
          +8
          Quote: PAM
          this is what kind of logistics you need to have

          About the same, which provides the return of spent cartridges. smile
          Quote: PAM
          and it will also be probably more costly than to put together wooden boxes at the plant again (thank God we have a lot of forests, and if you even start to make them from waste from the woodworking industry you will be hurt in general)

          Shell box of waste. Resistant to falling onto concrete from a height of 2 m. smile

          You are not carrying apples to the market, but shells. Which, moreover, will be stored in these boxes - possibly in the open.
          Quote: PAM
          The lodgement could also be made universal for two or three calibers, not to mention for different types of shells.

          Ahem ... and what - wooden inserts in existing boxes are universal in caliber?
          1. PAM
            PAM 11 December 2015 14: 22 New
            0
            Shell box of waste. Resistant to falling onto concrete from a height of 2 m
            and which one will throw? Until now, they have been able to withstand unloading from the height of the Urals. Wastes shavings, sawdust - compressed, panels impregnated with resins, for example: WWS have a sufficiently high strength and moisture resistance.
            Which, moreover, will be stored in these boxes - possibly in the open.
            this is only relevant in the war zone, and for a short time under the open sky, a tree is quite suitable, given the presence of all kinds of modern (and cheap) impregnations (there is also to increase fire resistance), paints, sealants and other crap.
            Ahem ... and what - wooden inserts in existing boxes are universal in caliber?

            why not take this moment into account when making a new one?
            Wooden boxes - how many soldiers they helped settle in the fields (warmed, covered), how many lives they saved from the bullet filled with soil.
            1. Alexey RA
              Alexey RA 14 December 2015 11: 57 New
              0
              Quote: PAM
              and which one will throw? Until now, they have been able to withstand unloading from the height of the body of the Urals. Waste shavings, sawdust - compressed, panels impregnated with resins, for example: WWS have a sufficiently high strength and moisture resistance

              And how much will such a box cost?
              Quote: PAM
              this is only relevant in the combat zone, and for a short stay in the open air a tree is quite suitable

              Hehehehe ... did not know that in 1989 there was a war zone in Kamenka. For there, next to the road to the station, there was an epic-sized warehouse with open storage of boxes with power supplies.
              "Temporary" storage of power supply units in the open air is a long tradition of our aircraft. And we have nothing more permanent than temporary.
              Quote: PAM
              Wooden boxes - how many soldiers they helped settle in the fields (warmed, covered), how many lives they saved from the bullet filled with soil.

              Exactly the same arguments can be made against replacing horses with machines. How many lives of soldiers saved horsemeat in boilers ...
            2. BEECH 1972
              BEECH 1972 13 October 2017 17: 55 New
              0
              Sir! One gets the impression that you are either raving. Or you don’t have the slightest idea what exactly they started to talk about ...
              Quote: PAM
              and which one will throw? Until now, they have been able to withstand unloading from the height of the Urals. Wastes shavings, sawdust - compressed, panels impregnated with resins, for example: WWS have a sufficiently high strength and moisture resistance.

              The point here is not even throwing, but the constant mechanical effect on the material of the crate. And here it is absolutely not important what kind of impact will be applied. Nevertheless, they are always there. When moving containers from place to place, when unloading ammunition, loading unloading on vehicles, vibration and movement when moving vehicles. Again, unloading at a firing range or at firing positions during hostilities is far from the same thing. At the training ground or at the warehouse, this action can be measured and unhurried, but alas, not in battle. On the battlefield is a completely different story. In real combat, these boxes often have to be thrown. The resistance of the material to significant mechanical stresses, with close ruptures of enemy ammunition, will also be of great importance. But this is not even the point. For all the previously described items, your waste crates lose even to classic wooden crates. Since this material, in principle, does not tolerate constant mechanical stress. It is designed only for that. To take the place intended for him by the builders and to remain in relative peace in the future. When cutting into relatively small panels, the edges of such material will no longer hold their shape, and constant loads on bends and twisting, especially in the presence of rather heavy shells, are unlikely to allow them to hold their shape even for a relatively short period of time. How many drivers bought this material, and covered their wagons with slightly less expensive material. Which was rarely enough even for at least a year of operation, as a result, ordinary birch plywood was acquired, and this crumbling and falling apart nonsense was forgotten as a nightmare. In this case, it is necessary to take into account the fact that this material, in principle, is not designed for outdoor use. If an OSB board (OSB) of classes E0-E1 with a minimum adhesive composition weighs only slightly heavier than a wooden board of the same thickness and size, then an OSB class E4, which can be used in rooms with a high level of humidity, will weigh much heavier. At the same time, the strength level of such a plate is not at all higher. But much higher emissions of hazardous formaldehydes and a whole bunch of other toxic substances, as well as an increase in the amount of adhesive, significantly increases the fire hazard of OSB E4. Which even in OSB classes E0-E1 belong to the combustibility group G4 (highly combustible). This means that such building materials are highly flammable. If you want a complete list of properties that characterize the fire hazard of OSB, then please G4 (highly flammable), B1 (hardly flammable, but only subject to anti-pyrene treatment), RP3 (moderately spreading flames on the surface), DZ (with high smoke generating ability) , T4 (extremely dangerous by toxicity of combustion products). And unlike ordinary wood, which is easy enough to saturate with quality fire fighting compounds. OSB oriented chipboard can only be coated with a thin layer. Since the entire internal structure of the wood used in this material is already saturated with baked polymerized resins. And if OSB is soaked and held in flame retardants for a long time, then under the influence of the chemicals contained in the compositions, the polymer adhesive itself will begin to lose strength and break down. At the same time, the overall moisture resistance when kept in an environment with high humidity, this material is still so-so. Because even though the adhesive composition of OSB is baked and polymerized, prolonged exposure to water destroys it anyway.
            3. BEECH 1972
              BEECH 1972 13 October 2017 17: 55 New
              0
              Quote: PAM
              this is only relevant in the war zone, and for a short time under the open sky, a tree is quite suitable, given the presence of all kinds of modern (and cheap) impregnations (there is also to increase fire resistance), paints, sealants and other crap.
              And in your authoritative opinion, artillery shells and boxes for their transportation are created exclusively for storage in warehouses and extremely rare use in the conditions of the range?!? Well, a very interesting point of view. Oh, these military men create a bunch of ammunition just so that their numerous depots are not empty and sometimes fly up into the air ... As for paints, sealants and other crap ... You calculate the cost of making a classic wooden box and turn it on in the cycle of its production some additional operations. It’s like additional drying at a temperature of 105 ° C, not of a fully finished part, but of a larger workpiece, with a good margin in the region of cross sections and with obligatory painting over the ends. Then bring the workpiece to the required size, soak in antibacterial and refractory solutions, then dry and assemble again. It would seem not very, very much, especially in words. But in economic terms, this leads to an inevitable rise in price of already not the cheapest finished products. Since for the manufacture of such boxes only certain species and varieties of wood are taken. And even from the lumber that has already been selected, not every part of it will fit in the manufacture of containers for shells. Since for such production there are a number of very stringent requirements and standards that take into account the property of wood, its quality, as well as the type and number of knots. Yes, and impregnated wood, one horseradish is exposed to both insects and some types of fungi or microorganisms, because the poison for one infection, for another it’s just manna from heaven. Yes, and resistance to heat and ignition, even despite the impregnation is purely conditional. Unless the time interval between the beginning of such an effect and the ignition of the material of the wooden box, will be much larger than that of unimpregnated wood. At least the same test on an open flame as in the article, you can not even try to conduct.
            4. BEECH 1972
              BEECH 1972 13 October 2017 17: 56 New
              0
              Quote: PAM
              why not take this moment into account when making a new one? Wooden boxes - how many soldiers they helped settle in the fields (warmed, covered), how many lives they saved from the bullet filled with soil.

              And why take this moment into account?!? The outer frame is already universal. Therefore, it is quite suitable for storage and transportation of almost any type of ammunition used by the Russian Armed Forces. But the lodgement still cannot be unified without losing some of its important properties. For example, reliable fixation and amortization of ammunition in a case. To solve such a problem, it would be necessary to unify the dimensions and appearance of the ammunition itself and at the same time not lose its functionality. Again, such a unification would only provoke a significant increase in the cost of production of ammunition, but would not solve the issue. Since the lodgement would still be suitable only for a certain caliber of unified ammunition, and for the reliable placement of other calibers, a bunch of different additional inserts or struts would be needed. At that time, when stamping a solid shaped part of a lodgement for a certain caliber, it takes a minimum of time and costs mere pennies. And the service of a case with ammunition will be much simpler and much faster. Well, the main advantages of the new packaging are its complete incombustibility, solid resistance to high-temperature heating for a long time, high strength of the outer shell and the design of the entire case as a whole. Because the equipped and packed case is essentially like a rubber ball inflated with air. Which, due to the plasticity of the shell and the tight packing of the same plastic internal filler, is able to absorb a rather significant impulse of kinetic energy. Plus the durability of the materials. Using ammunition and removing both halves of the lodgement, the shell case can also be filled with sand, at least soil, at least gravel. And to build an entire bastion from such wardrobe trunks, besides removing plastic shock absorbing filler from shaped castings of the lodgement, they can also be filled with soil in the same way. And lay around the bastion of wardrobe trunks, another at least a half-meter wall of plastic molds filled with soil or stones. A soft lodgement filler can be used as a heater for the bastion dugout and bedding for sleeping or resting personnel. But all this will come in handy only if something like 1990 is repeated, when the army, which was already launched during the years of preparing the country for the collapse, was assiduously and diligently sought out by the liberals who had reached power. And the Ministry of Defense is completely stolen all the stockpiled property. As for heating, the kindling of a fire from the wreckage of wooden crates, in the case of a modern war between more or less equal and equipped with modern types of weapons and auxiliary means parties, of course, without the use of weapons of mass destruction, will be the last thing that non-conventional warriors will create in their unreasonable life . Moreover, it was the incombustibility of such wardrobe trunks that served as one of the most important properties that made the Ministry of Defense interested in new packaging.
          2. gladcu2
            gladcu2 12 December 2015 20: 37 New
            +1
            Alexey-RA

            Universal calligraphers. Alteration for the required calliber is insignificant, not expensive and not laborious.

            Expensive plastic is good for expensive shells. By the way, the declared accuracy of firing of Almaty, just depends on high-quality shells. Howitzer shells can also be stored in wooden ones.

            It is necessary to comply with fire safety requirements and storage techniques. Will not burn.

            And 15 minutes before the explosion. So this is a minus than a plus. Or will someone stand with a chronometer?

            By the way, by the way. Once I personally had to redo some XNUMX boxes to another calliber. Everything is technologically advanced.
        3. your1970
          your1970 11 December 2015 12: 47 New
          +2
          about waste super-when the box falls from a height, a fuse can be removed, which then will lead to an explosion in the barrel / at the cut of the gun’s barrel. It is basically to eliminate / reduce this risk that a capping is made to protect the projectile from impacts.
          And you are packing them for waste ..
          By the way, we actually already have forests NOT Lots of..
        4. igordok
          igordok 11 December 2015 13: 38 New
          +2
          Quote: PAM
          nonsense new packaging for 30 mm shells, nakoy? Modern containers are needed only for expensive shells (for example, guided ones) or for special forces (for example, with diversionary sorties, weight will be of great importance) or as an option for the Navy where moisture and salt are an aggressive factor and also as an option for export shipments to tropical countries .

          I assume there is a massive typo. Instead of 30 mm, read 130 mm. The text reads
          Another closure option for a smaller caliber projectile

          It’s not like, not 30 mm.
        5. oldseaman1957
          oldseaman1957 11 December 2015 14: 53 New
          +4
          Quote: PAM
          nonsense a new container for 30 mm shells, nakoy? Modern packaging is needed only for expensive shells (e.g. guided)
          - Well, firstly, they should be cheaper, and secondly, the outer surface of the boxes can be made like Lego, so that they can be easily folded (after use) even in houses, even in "dzotyki". Moreover, a 50-year shelf life is cool, and it will be much more problematic to arrange fires at the headquarters.
        6. ver_
          ver_ 8 January 2016 18: 12 New
          0
          ... plastic containers cost a penny - this is not a wooden box for the manufacture of which requires not just production waste, but also some metal parts (latches, corners ..)
      2. Evgeny RS
        Evgeny RS 18 January 2016 15: 19 New
        0
        Grandfather, an artilleryman, said that during the Second World War they put shell casings (anti-tank battalion) into boxes and sent them back.
    2. ShturmKGB
      ShturmKGB 11 December 2015 08: 41 New
      +2
      Tara is good, but the problem is with the shells themselves, I read an article where the situation is described sad. That they say that there is no industrial production of shells left in Russia, they are issued piece by piece ... I hope the fears are exaggerated, if there are people who know real circumstances, please clarify.
    3. max702
      max702 11 December 2015 20: 28 New
      +3
      Nevertheless, it is obvious that promising plastic containers should be noticeably more expensive than traditional wooden ones. How much is still unknown.
      Something I doubt it .. I started my career as a carpenter at a military plant and I had to make containers for "products" oh, how many are, and I will tell you this, the requirements for containers are very high, the requirements for frames and doors are much lower, based on this, the container turned out to be very expensive, not to mention labor costs, there is not only high-quality wood, but there must also be a high-quality machine tool, grinding, painting, Oh-oh requirements .. So somehow I doubt that the plastic container with its magnificent manufacturability will be expensive, if you make a dozen boxes, it’s expensive, and if in millions it’s not, the more that there will be 1-2 types of sizes, but the liners are different, as far as I know, the most expensive thing in plastic trunks, suitcases, boxes is just the outer case with its high requirements for the geometrical dimensions and quality of plastic, and the inserts cost a penny .. A good thing was conceived, the only thing is that, of course, you won't let them on firewood, but what can you do in the 21st century in the yard and a brick gun ohm for a long time not cleaned.
      1. gladcu2
        gladcu2 12 December 2015 20: 46 New
        0
        max702

        Soviet wooden container for shells is very good. And the life cycle is very large.

        Not sure if plastic will be an alternative. There, deformations are possible, self-destruction, with time.

        Unless for expensive shells with serious tolerance. Of which there should not be mass.
    4. Evgeny RS
      Evgeny RS 18 January 2016 15: 16 New
      0
      but the wooden box is cheap
  2. Tihas
    Tihas 11 December 2015 06: 54 New
    +3
    Good drawers. On the farm, such would be useful.
    1. bocsman
      bocsman 11 December 2015 12: 06 New
      +1
      Quote: Tihas
      Good drawers. On the farm, such would be useful.

      Tihas, are you not an ensign by chance?
      Now seriously. But it would not be more logical to use plastic containers for long-term storage or plastic covers as an alternative to existing wooden containers. And for fighting, wooden with all its advantages.
    2. bocsman
      bocsman 11 December 2015 12: 06 New
      0
      Quote: Tihas
      Good drawers. On the farm, such would be useful.

      Tihas, are you not an ensign by chance?
      Now seriously. But it would not be more logical to use plastic containers for long-term storage or plastic covers as an alternative to existing wooden containers. And for fighting, wooden with all its advantages.
    3. bocsman
      bocsman 11 December 2015 12: 17 New
      0
      Quote: Tihas
      Good drawers. On the farm, such would be useful.

      The words "ensign". Shutka!
      Now seriously. Plastic for long-term storage or as an alternative a plastic coating for existing containers. And for war and exercises, the old ones are proven with all its advantages.
    4. bocsman
      bocsman 11 December 2015 12: 17 New
      0
      Quote: Tihas
      Good drawers. On the farm, such would be useful.

      The words "ensign". Shutka!
      Now seriously. Plastic for long-term storage or as an alternative a plastic coating for existing containers. And for war and exercises, the old ones are proven with all its advantages.
  3. inkass_98
    inkass_98 11 December 2015 07: 13 New
    11
    As you know, in Russia fences are made of wood, and furniture is made of sawdust. Finally, we came to the conclusion that there is no need to transfer wood to products that can be replaced with much cheaper plastic. Plus additional development of the chemical industry.
    1. RUSS
      RUSS 11 December 2015 11: 04 New
      0
      Quote: inkass_98
      Finally, we came to the conclusion that there is no need to transfer wood to products,
    2. chunga-changa
      chunga-changa 11 December 2015 11: 43 New
      -1
      Quote: inkass_98
      much cheaper plastic

      New plastic containers are five times more expensive than wooden ones.
  4. leytenant
    leytenant 11 December 2015 07: 23 New
    +8
    Imagine the desert, Afghanistan, Kr. North, Arab countries, etc. It is really problematic to make a fire there, and sometimes there’s nothing at all. Of course, in a full-fledged camp there will be autonomous sources of heat and light, but what about the units at the forefront? How will they keep warm? Wooden crates are truly multifunctional and were created primarily for war, for mass war, as well as all other domestic small arms. They didn’t think about the downsides (wood decay, fires in warehouses as a result of storage violations or technical safety), because it was about the survival of the nation in the world war. More often inspect the warehouses and storage locations of PSUs, and more strictly punish those responsible.
    P.S. No one thought about the consumption of BP in regimental exercises? What then with this plastic container? It does not rot, we will also mean a round amount for processing plastic to pay.
    1. Shadowcat
      Shadowcat 11 December 2015 08: 30 New
      0
      Quote: leytenant
      Wooden crates are truly multifunctional and were created primarily for war, for mass war

      In the event of a war, I don’t think that after the first two months of hostilities someone will bother with packaging and will just switch to cheaper wooden. for there will be such ammunition that it’s huge ... This is from the time of WWII we know how much the military ate during WWII (I take into account the Japanese Theater) so the previous military operations should remind the local skirmishes of two yards;)
      What about these boxes - they are primarily intended for long-term storage and storage, while they are slightly susceptible to ignition, unlike the old ones. those. warehouses will burn less and more difficult to arrange sabotage.

      Quote: leytenant
      What then with this plastic container?

      Reuse, no? Well, processing can also be started. In addition to the costs of this, it is also jobs and, as a result, income to the population.
      1. rJIiOK
        rJIiOK 11 December 2015 09: 58 New
        +2
        I fully support.
        During a mass war, there will be a return to massive wooden ones, and in our "peace" time, plastic is more convenient and practical.
        1. grandfather_Kostya
          grandfather_Kostya 11 December 2015 21: 26 New
          0
          In 50 years, this container will be like with any other - to a landfill, to the window, etc. a new replenishment to the hundred-million-ton islands floating in the ocean from garbage, if this plastic does not immediately bother at least in some way, when it is guaranteed to turn into undying rubbish.
    2. Humpty
      Humpty 11 December 2015 08: 49 New
      +5
      Quote: leytenant
      Imagine the desert, Afghanistan, Kr. North, Arab countries, etc. It is really problematic to make a fire there, and sometimes there’s nothing at all.

      Have you heard of portable gas burners, including those with a catalyst?
      Bonfire is good where you do not need to hide.
      Wooden boxes are of course a thing, you can use it in different ways. Synthetics are replacing tarpaulin and leather, but this does not mean that synthetics are destined to completely displace old materials, because the motor was never able to displace the horse from all areas of military use. So with a wooden container.
      1. IS-80
        IS-80 11 December 2015 09: 05 New
        -1
        Quote: Humpty
        because the motor was never able to displace the horse from all areas of military use.

        Well yes. In parades, horses are sometimes found. smile
        1. Humpty
          Humpty 11 December 2015 09: 31 New
          +4
          Quote: IS-80
          Well yes. In parades, horses are sometimes found.

          At our border post without horses in any way. Try 60, or even 80 km, with mountains or tundra for a day on foot to wave away.
          The introduction of something new, in this case plastic containers, often goes with a creak, it is sometimes difficult for people to abandon what they have long been accustomed to.
          1. puffnutiy
            puffnutiy 11 December 2015 13: 27 New
            +1
            I confirm! In Kaliningrad PU there are horses. And at the outposts of the North Caucasus, I myself saw horses and even donkeys!
    3. RUSS
      RUSS 11 December 2015 11: 01 New
      +1
      Quote: leytenant
      Imagine the desert, Afghanistan, Kr. North, Arab countries, etc. It is really problematic to make a fire there, and sometimes there’s nothing at all.

      You have thinking from the last century.
    4. RUSS
      RUSS 11 December 2015 13: 11 New
      +1
      Quote: leytenant
      It is really problematic to make a fire there, and sometimes there’s nothing at all.

      To do this, there are already burners, or do you offer everyone to carry boxes with you? And in the Arctic and in the desert?
    5. RUSS
      RUSS 11 December 2015 13: 24 New
      0
      Quote: leytenant
      Imagine the desert, Afghanistan, Kr. North, Arab countries, etc. It is really problematic to make a fire there, and sometimes there’s nothing at all.

      In the desert, we’ll also send reconnaissance with wooden crates ... laughing
    6. your1970
      your1970 11 December 2015 17: 33 New
      +2
      "Nobody thought about the consumption of BP on regimental exercises? What then with this plastic container? It does not rot, so we will also pay a round sum for plastic recycling."
      It’s the easiest way to complete the exercises: they collected and returned to the factory. By the way, it’s also prescribed now - you can write off the capping a small percentage of the exercises, and the rest should be returned to the RAV warehouse. Another question is how it is respected and how the head of the RAV service then turns his eyes to the inspector ...
      Wooden boxes were created only because there were no substitutes for normal ones - no one cared about heating the soldiers. Example: all kinds of German variations — there was no doubt that there was a forest in Germany.
  5. Anatole Klim
    Anatole Klim 11 December 2015 07: 27 New
    +8
    As a former RAVist, let me make a small comment. Ammunition is stored in stacks, up to 3,5 m high, depending on the nomenclature, which saves space and systematizes storage. Laying out an even stack is quite difficult work, the wooden boxes on the lid and at the bottom had ribs that were inserted into each other, which allowed the boxes to not slide relative to each other. In addition, longitudinal and transverse wooden slats were laid every three or four boxes, which secured the stack and did not allow the stack to "unfold" and fall over. I think the rounded shape of the new container will make it difficult to stack boxes, transport and transport them, although the advantages in terms of storage time and fire resistance are obvious.
    1. Alexey RA
      Alexey RA 11 December 2015 11: 59 New
      +8
      Quote: Anatol Klim
      The rounded forms of the new packaging I think will make it difficult to stack boxes, their transportation and transportation,

      EMNIP, in Mokrushin's comments it was that there are "docking elements" on the outer surface of the boxes that prevent the upper box from sliding along the lower one. Another "army LEGO". smile
    2. Gomel
      Gomel 11 December 2015 13: 49 New
      +1
      On other resources it is said that the boxes are full of elements for docking and stacking, I think in the TTX these boxes went to the third if not the second point :)
    3. KVIRTU
      KVIRTU 11 December 2015 16: 50 New
      +1
      I want to add, there are certain doubts about the handles for carrying, more precisely, the recesses in the lower half of the box for its grip and hold. Imagine, together, carry such a box of 50 meters, with an inverted brush, and there will be 45 kg. And this is instead of the usual folding handles, which provide a reliable and comfortable hold.
      1. Thunderbolt
        Thunderbolt 11 December 2015 20: 02 New
        0
        It is possible to mount straps for carrying. One box as a backpack behind the back, two on the sides and forward to the position.
  6. Kvaigon
    Kvaigon 11 December 2015 07: 33 New
    +2
    old boxes were used as firewood, it will be impossible to burn these ...
    1. luiswoo
      luiswoo 11 December 2015 19: 21 New
      +1
      The cost of 5 kilo rubles for a "bundle".
      http://twower.livejournal.com/1860899.html
  7. Dragon-y
    Dragon-y 11 December 2015 07: 35 New
    +3
    What is now to heat field kitchens and fires from which to burn? ..
    1. luiswoo
      luiswoo 11 December 2015 19: 26 New
      +1
      For the price of one box, 5 thousand rubles, you can order a cubic meter of wood with delivery.
  8. bad
    bad 11 December 2015 07: 39 New
    +2
    the new container is certainly good .. but at once they won’t replace everything at once, for many years our soldiers will be heating stoves and pounding field bathhouses from boxes .. laughing
  9. vladimirvn
    vladimirvn 11 December 2015 08: 16 New
    11
    I remember the good old wooden boxes. How actively they were used repeatedly for household needs. And when moving from the garrison to the garrison, there was nothing better than them, for transporting home belongings. Often they replaced in the household and in the field and the table and chair, bed and dresser. They built baths and dugouts, drowned and heated in critical situations. I would put a monument to them.
    1. foxic
      foxic 11 December 2015 12: 38 New
      +2
      everything is fine - now the chests (instead of boxes under the junk) will be airtight and non-combustible. block posts, light barriers on the roofs and walk-throughs will not be made of spilled propylene bags ..... I do not see any cons.

      and according to the past, faulty boxes were burned, and if absolutely necessary ....
    2. max702
      max702 12 December 2015 00: 21 New
      0
      Quote: vladimirvn
      I would put a monument to them.

      Another would be voiced how much it cost the national economy .. in the Army everything is free, why bother organizing support when they make everything from improvised material .. Alas, we always had a devil-may-care attitude to everyday trifles. but these little things cost oh how expensive, I read an article by a military physician on "Courage", it said that more than 80 percent of the wounded accounted for "everyday life", that is, the lack of heat, clean water, normal sanitary conditions and other delights ... well, and which is written in the charter “must endure hardships and hardships” ..
  10. SPLV
    SPLV 11 December 2015 09: 45 New
    0
    Yes, and the price tags for the boxes, taking into account the construction of production lines, will not be cheap, but if we restrict ourselves to shells with a special warhead, then even higher due to the small amount. Very similar to cut, although I may not be right.
    1. max702
      max702 12 December 2015 00: 30 New
      0
      Quote: SPLV
      Yes, and the price tags for the boxes, taking into account the construction of production lines, will not be cheap, but if we restrict ourselves to shells with a special warhead, then even higher due to the small amount. Very similar to cut, although I may not be right.

      What makes you think that it is expensive? The polymer raw material is worth a penny, the casting machine is not at all high-tech, there is no machine processing there, the percentage of human labor is minimal .. And now compare with wooden boxes. there are about two dozen machine operations, and before that, the tree also needs to be dried, the assembly is only manual, and then the finished product is puttyed, painted, and marked. The tree is not cheap now, and manual labor is by no means cheap either. And how much the box will be easier and will not rot, believe me, and in domestic use they will be used much more widely than wooden ones.
  11. Alexzora
    Alexzora 11 December 2015 09: 48 New
    +5
    in fact, during the Great War (WWII), there was an order from the Head of the Rear that the boxes from artillery shells were collected and sent back to the rear warehouses, from where they were transported to artillery factories, which significantly reduced the time for delivering shells to at the container to the front.
    although it was valid during intense battles, there was no time to do this, but nevertheless there is a positive experience.

    and about the high cost, I do not think that 50 disposable wooden boxes are much cheaper than the first plastic box.

    and yes, I agree, to burn, to drag away to the country and so on, much better than modern packaging (we do not need a modern industry of high processing, we will do everything in the old way)
  12. runway
    runway 11 December 2015 09: 55 New
    +8
    In normal military units, spent cartridges were always surrendered in a regular capping. The use of a standard closure for other purposes entailed the initiation of a criminal case "for sabotage."
    But our country is big, there are many forests, and even on "combat" ones, why not write off ...
    Such an attitude to other people's labor and national wealth led to the brainless squandering of colossal means. This is precisely the main explanation of the place where our country is today.
    1. foxic
      foxic 11 December 2015 12: 42 New
      +4
      I agree. the motto - "still give birth" is no longer heard .....
      apparently it's time to start saving forests and water .....
  13. kav669
    kav669 11 December 2015 10: 15 New
    0
    There will be good savings on wood. Boxes rot terribly.
  14. Gomunkul
    Gomunkul 11 December 2015 10: 19 New
    -1
    The main advantage over existing wooden crates is called fire resistance. The deputy defense minister explained that thanks to the use of special materials, the new box is capable of withstanding flames up to 15 ° C for 500 minutes.
    It’s terribly interesting how much such a container will cost for a budget? And then, now chemistry does not stand still and there are modern flame retardants for wood impregnation. Now it remains to find out who will be the supplier of such containers for the army. hi
  15. hjcuhfybwf
    hjcuhfybwf 11 December 2015 11: 03 New
    0
    It is necessary to design a box with the possibility of coupling for the formation of complex structures of defensive structures on the battlefield.
    1. Gecko
      Gecko 12 December 2015 00: 55 New
      0
      In principle, if you provide a structure for adhesion and if it is filled with soil, then it is quite possible to build entire structures.
  16. Ronino
    Ronino 11 December 2015 11: 09 New
    +2
    Tara for peacetime.
  17. Megatron
    Megatron 11 December 2015 11: 29 New
    0
    Yes, high-tech shells are justified, but for massive millions of pieces - not sure.
    1. your1970
      your1970 11 December 2015 22: 15 New
      -1
      and who are you going to fight with massive millions of pieces? With NATO?
  18. Olfred
    Olfred 11 December 2015 12: 33 New
    0
    and that the thing is good and necessary ... if the devil dwells in little things, then these little things must be monitored), again, you can make something out of them in case of lack of material. if only these boxes were not the usual way to "cut" the money laughing hi
  19. kirpich
    kirpich 11 December 2015 12: 41 New
    0
    Whatever you say, a tree is better. And to make a fire in the winter, and build a canopy. Yes, a lot of things can be done from shell boxes.
  20. Gomel
    Gomel 11 December 2015 13: 44 New
    +2
    Nevertheless, it is obvious that promising plastic containers should be noticeably more expensive than traditional wooden ones.


    Well, it’s not entirely obvious, perhaps with equal volumes of the order it will be cheaper, otherwise there would be wooden spoons and forks instead of plastic, and even dofig some products. Everything rests on volumes. There will be volumes - the price will significantly decrease. It is significant. And taking into account resource saving and the possibility of more repeated use than wooden containers, plus the possibility of civilian use will make the container a very profitable thing.

    Z.Y. it’s not clear why they talk about fiberglass, it’s quite flammable, additives are good of course, but the wood can be soaked so that it will not burn for up to 20 minutes (fire-retardant properties of the 1 group on the 251-98 airbag), are there any specialists who work with polymers? Interesting is their opinion.
    1. would
      would 11 December 2015 14: 18 New
      0
      It is believed that the boxes are not made of fiberglass, it is very, very difficult (and very expensive) to give such a complex shape.
      1. Gomel
        Gomel 14 December 2015 15: 11 New
        0
        I'm not an expert but on request "which plastic is able to withstand flames up to 15 ° C for 500 minutes?"
        Google gives the answer: engineering plastics.
        there is something up to 1500 protect, depending on additives

        and here he dug:
        http://polimer1.ru/assets/files/downloads/catalog/katalog-tehnicheskie-plastiki.
        -rukovodstvo.pdf

        manual, though here plastics only up to a maximum temperature of 300 deg. indicated (see page 46-47)

        All the same, I would like to talk with specialists
  21. Alekspel
    Alekspel 11 December 2015 19: 12 New
    +8
    On duty, I had to deal with ammunition in the army and am very in solidarity with those who advocate replacing wooden containers with plastic closures. Firewood from boxes today is ridiculous, because there are burners and fuel if there is equipment nearby, and if it is not there, then there are chemical combustible materials that burn much longer than firewood and do not unmask. Even better, when the closures can be connected to cartridges, which can be loaded onto vehicles immediately with ammunition for various types of weapons. While still at the academy, we developed similar projects and after 30 years these thoughts materialized. And stamping closures is much simpler than bashing boxes from a decent tree. And if you think it over well, then you can collect from these closures and shelters, right up to the houses, and filling them with earth you can also build dugouts with parapets. Only they should be painted not in a poisonous green color, but in a protective masking one. You just need to think, and not hold on to tomorrow’s technology. I am for plastic and unification.
    1. The comment was deleted.
    2. Anatole Klim
      Anatole Klim 11 December 2015 21: 26 New
      0
      Quote: Alekspel
      On duty, I had to deal with ammunition in the army ... It is even better when the closures can be connected to cartridges that can be loaded onto vehicles with ammunition for various types of weapons at once. While still at the academy, we developed similar projects and after 30 years these thoughts materialized.

      I always respected the officers who graduated from the academy, I didn’t succeed, the Union collapsed and the admission was canceled, however, for all my long service I never met transport of b / p from factories, arsenals, ammunition bases, all these projects were considered difficult to implement, and it was the RAV service of the army, division, and regiment that was to complete and reckon b / c and supply the subordinate units. Cassette loading then remained in dreams, in practice everyone knew about it, but could not be put into practice, could not. Will they be able now, I don’t know, given the stocks of b / p, even considering the ones destroyed by order of Serdyukov, it’s necessary to work, but it’s better to work hard.
  22. ingenera
    ingenera 11 December 2015 22: 50 New
    +4
    Maybe I served for a long time and now much has changed, but shell boxes made of wood were also not cheap products. Those who saw them close know how everything fits in there, what constipation - in terms of quality it is almost furniture. And they were not disposable. After firing, the spent cartridges were put back into the boxes and surrendered. Bonfires, at least we did not burn them. And plastic, of course, will take their place over time. It will just happen gradually (I would like to believe). I think that capping ammunition is now not the biggest problem of the Moscow Region. There would be ammunition, but they would sort it out with boxes somehow.
    1. Gomel
      Gomel 14 December 2015 14: 38 New
      0
      Golden words
  23. Gr. Engineer
    Gr. Engineer 12 December 2015 00: 17 New
    0
    When transferring stacks of ammunition, I don’t remember rotten boxes. And these stacks stood in the open for many years. True, it was a long time ago, maybe then wooden boxes were well able to do.
    1. Gecko
      Gecko 12 December 2015 00: 58 New
      +1
      I saw rotten and dilapidated crates in stacks from where shells and rockets almost stuck out and almost fell out.
      A wooden box in itself also adds weight to the projectile.
      And if the boxes are made according to the LEGO type and filled with soil, then they can be used for the construction of temporary structures ...
      In general, soldier ingenuity will find application in such containers in everyday life.
  24. Orionvit
    Orionvit 12 December 2015 00: 33 New
    +2
    Quote: Humpty
    Wooden crates have another undesirable property. They sometimes rot. Heat-resistant plastics can significantly increase the storage safety of shells.

    I agree. I personally observed at the Ozernoye airfield, near Zhitomir in 2007. Huge warehouses of aviation ammunition under the open sky. There is no aviation in Ukraine, but the legacy of the Union remains. Rockets and bombs in rotten containers. For that fought for it and ran.
  25. Lieutenant colonel
    Lieutenant colonel 12 December 2015 03: 13 New
    +4
    You really forgive dear forum users - I sit reading comments and laughing!
    Why is wood better than plastic? Those that can burn in the "Afghan steppes", etc.
    Did you even buy wooden furniture? Why is it more expensive than chipboard?
    Why is it stated here that plastic capping is six times more expensive? Who brought the real value of the products?
    And what of plastic containers is not fate to build a shelter?
    And no one has heard about economic efficiency? A plastic box can be used several times without losing the quality of storage b / p.
    Many immediately remembered the war - but what exercises are not being conducted now? Many members of the forum had a chance to load tank? Or is the art system of some kind of self-propelled with its own handles? First, unload from the car and then upload to the armored vehicle. This is not a three-shot biathlon! Did you even hold an empty box with b / p serious calibers in your hands? Not cartridge boxes. And so let's say, with a capping 125 mm b / p?
    Or no one collected the spent cartridges? And then where did they go?
    But have you ever thought that wooden capping is a multi-turn container?
    Definitely a good idea. I’d try to unify the internal volume for different calibres by using various inserts, etc.
    1. Gomunkul
      Gomunkul 14 December 2015 12: 57 New
      0
      You really forgive dear forum users - I sit reading comments and laughing!
      Why is wood better than plastic? Those that can burn in the "Afghan steppes", etc.
      Manufacturability, as Boys can beat wooden boxes in case of war, but only specialized manufactures can organize the production of such shell boxes, because they need an appropriate machine park and equipment, plus raw materials. Correctly above have already noticed that such boxes are for peacetime. hi
      1. Gomel
        Gomel 14 December 2015 15: 00 New
        +2
        Let me object

        What specialized industries are we talking about?
        I just got in touch with an engineer I know at our Gomel enterprise AMIPAK, one of the largest enterprises in the CIS for the production of flexible packaging materials, disposable packaging and reusable plastic containers, and so the person said simply (by the way, they are aware of this article): "The question of how and what to stamp what kind of notches of locks and ribs should not be done at all, all possible (1) complexity is only in the raw materials. What kind of raw materials will be - such properties will be in the final product, plus incredible productivity. "
        100 boys do not rivet as many containers in one hour as one vacuum machine. And note the completely done (from patents to the last screw in the Russian Federation). At the same time, the machine is not something super complicated. In addition, plastic is not metal and molds for pressing out are made for it once (well, if there are no special requirements, such as in some types of containers for medicine and pharmaceuticals). And yes ... this machine is operated by an 1 operator, a girl.

        Therefore, all the criticism of this container from me personally will rest on only one question - what kind of raw material, if it will include at least one component of non-domestic production, there is no sense in this container. Everything related to the military-industrial complex (MIC) of both Russia and the allies should be decided (produced and executed) within Russia and the allies.
    2. The comment was deleted.
  26. wicked pinnochio
    wicked pinnochio 12 December 2015 15: 16 New
    +2
    Well, the weight is correspondingly lower than that of wooden
  27. derik1970
    derik1970 15 December 2015 22: 25 New
    +1
    I drank dough, how to give a drink. hi
  28. Evgeny RS
    Evgeny RS 18 January 2016 15: 22 New
    0
    And how are shells stored in the USA in wooden or plastic crates?
  29. BEECH 1972
    BEECH 1972 13 October 2017 18: 19 New
    0
    Quote: Reserve lieutenant colonel
    Definitely a good idea. I’d try to unify the internal volume for different calibres by using various inserts, etc.

    Not really good. A whole bunch of additional elements appear that need to be manufactured and properly applied. And casting an integral shaped tool tray will not only allow the Ministry of Defense to save considerable funds. But it will also save a whole bunch of time and nerves to the staff working with these corks and shells. Because it is much more convenient to store and replace only the lodgement, rather than sorting out a whole bunch of gaskets, inserts, inserts or struts.
  30. BEECH 1972
    BEECH 1972 13 October 2017 19: 13 New
    0
    Quote: your1970
    if the box falls from a height, the fuse may be removed, which then will lead to an explosion in the barrel / at the cut of the gun barrel when fired.

    What fuse?!? What an explosion?!? If your shots are in the shipping container when moving from place to place. That any shell can be removed and even play football with them, even hammer in nails. At least as long as the ammunition is not prepared for firing, the fuses will not be installed in them and they will not be put into a combat position. And without a fuse or, in extreme cases, a detonator, this shell is nothing more than a metal blank. And if a shot is equipped with a sub-projectile, then there’s no way to blow up one horseradish, no matter how much it is hollowed.
  31. Romanik
    Romanik 26 January 2018 18: 11 New
    0
    I enjoyed reading all your comments. Thanks to the military-industrial specialists who gave competent comments.
    Now we have in our assortment 11 sizes of boxes.
    I do not have the right to voice the composition of fiberglass.
    But the boxes are funny.
    And another second destination that was not mentioned here is a watercraft.
    The box is waterproof!
    At the junction, it has a rubber seal. According to the drifts, it is provided that the boxes are fastened in a chain for a pantone crossing or, for example, keeping a soldier who has fallen into the water, etc., on pilaf.
    2)
    The largest box currently has a length of 3 meters. And most importantly - they are light. Wooden, in the Army, at one time, I was tormented to drag. And these are fluff!
  32. Romanik
    Romanik 27 January 2018 14: 27 New
    0
    Quote: Gomel
    Nevertheless, it is obvious that promising plastic containers should be noticeably more expensive than traditional wooden ones.


    Well, it’s not entirely obvious, perhaps with equal volumes of the order it will be cheaper, otherwise there would be wooden spoons and forks instead of plastic, and even dofig some products. Everything rests on volumes. There will be volumes - the price will significantly decrease. It is significant. And taking into account resource saving and the possibility of more repeated use than wooden containers, plus the possibility of civilian use will make the container a very profitable thing.

    Z.Y. it’s not clear why they talk about fiberglass, it’s quite flammable, additives are good of course, but the wood can be soaked so that it will not burn for up to 20 minutes (fire-retardant properties of the 1 group on the 251-98 airbag), are there any specialists who work with polymers? Interesting is their opinion.

  33. Romanik
    Romanik 27 January 2018 14: 50 New
    0
    Friends, I will take the opportunity of this pleasant forum and offer the services of our workshop for the manufacture of any composite products; according to your drawings and sketches. We are ready to help with the design, manufacture of a prototype, setting production and launch into a series. We realize any of your bold ideas using fiberglass technology. Contact (via PM (reminder of the message in PM will arrive in the mail)).