Military Review

New challenges to the strategy of the Russian Aerospace Forces in Syria are “outlined” and require a “game” of advance. What “mechanism” of NATO does Turkey coax in the north of Syria and Iraq?

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If we do not pay a naive emphasis on relatively "parallel" and fence off the US position, and NATO on the incident with the manifestation of the Turkish side of the aggression against the Sioux 24M our videoconferencing and pay close and far-sighted focus on a variety of sources with the same Western media, it is clear that in this difficult situation, where the snout of the Turkish leadership is already exactly in the “undisturbed fluff”, both Washington, Brussels and Ankara will try to extract the maximum benefit, and they can try to reach it at all without going to the straight line and a murderous military conflict with the most powerful in the world of the Armed Forces of Russia, and more quirky and cunning methods, of which there are already several.


From now on, all tactical aviation The Russian aerospace forces will be partially armed with air-to-air suspension. Melee missiles R-73, long-range R-27ER (pictured) and more advanced R-77 (RVV-AE) will counter any possible threats from fighters of the Western coalition at ranges up to 110 km. Also, the most complex and missile-hazardous air operations will be assigned to the most modern front-line Su-34 fighter-bombers, which, unlike the Su-24M, can well stand up for themselves both in close and long-range aerial combat. An important technological advantage of the Su-34 is its most powerful airborne radar with PFAR Sh-141 "Predator", which in the air-to-air mode has much greater noise immunity than American radars with a slot antenna array AN / APG-63 and AN / APG -68 (installed on Turkish F-16C and American F-15C at Incirlik airbase), the best range and stability of work on targets with an EPR of 3 m2 (up to 130 km), as well as 2 times greater target channel when using RVV-AE missiles


The main, and probably the most disturbing news in this vein came from the German newspaper Deutsche Wirtschafts Nachrichten. In particular, Hildegard von Hessen am Rhine informs that the CIA is working to provide the so-called “moderate opposition” with anti-aircraft missiles. weapons middle line with an average ceiling (about 10 km). Work is carried out with the most regulars of the terrorist camp of Western Asia and the Middle East - Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar. Moreover, the author emphasizes the fact that the Syrian anti-government fighters have such weapons of air defense, which has already taken place, and the beginning of its use can only be a matter of time. Earlier we already knew about the presence of the Syrian opposition, and the IG of American Stinger MANPADS and TOW anti-tank systems, which caused the loss of army aviation of government SAR forces and the Mi-8 helicopter of the Russian Federation. In the case of more long-range air defense missile systems, everything is much more serious, because our aviation is in serious danger not only at altitudes of 3-4 km, but also at higher echelons of use. This requires an early response, which should take into account the type of systems being transferred and the intended locations for their deployment.

COORDINATION MEASURES AND COVERAGE OF ACTIONS WHICH ZRK SPONSORS TURKEY? HOW EFFICIENTLY CAN IT BE CONFLICTED?

Until today, the Syrian opposition has not yet received open information on the supply of modern air defense systems from Turkey and Saudi Arabia to the Syrian opposition, but already in the middle of the autumn it was known about the activity of another state, the sponsor of terrorism, Qatar. It is this state, absolutely without a twinge of conscience, that provides direct financial and logistical support to the IG. In addition, back in September, before the start of the air operation of the Russian Aerospace Force of the Russian Federation in Syria, the delegation of the Qatar Ministry of Defense arrived in Ukraine at the arms and weapons exhibition, Weapons and Security-2015, in Kiev, where they signed a contract for the purchase of improved versions of the C-125-2-DMS Pechora-2D ”, which was subsequently planned to be placed at the disposal of the ISIL militants. These materials, including an e-mail message from V. Kurtuts, a Ukrainian adviser on trade and economic issues in Qatar, to V. Babitsky, a high-ranking official of the Polish arms company Level 11, with a request to assist in delivering the complex to Qatar and other contract documents accompanying the sale, were provided by the Ukrainian hacker organization Cyber-Berkut, which in one and a half years of work managed to expose dozens of crimes of the Kiev elite against the people of Donbass, Novorossiya and Ukraine itself.

The real whereabouts of the C-125-2-DMS is unknown, but it’s most likely that the systems have long been delivered to Qatar and can be relocated to the eastern provinces of Syria at any convenient time, since every step of the sale and delivery since signing the contract is coordinated with US intelligence agencies and Pentagon, from where come the further orders.

In order to figure out what degree of threat to the aviation of the Russian space forces can come from the Pechora improved by Ukraine, it is necessary to compare all the combat parameters of these air defense systems with the existing systems of optical-electronic warning and defense of our aircraft.

It is worth noting that since more with the first modification of the S-125 «Neva", put into service in 1961 year, subsequent versions have not changed significantly detection means image, tracking and targeting systems, it has been perfected only their element base and software for battle management. The Russian MUFG “Defense Systems” makes a modification of the Pechora-2М, the main advantage of which is the C-XNUMPPMU-300 element base, which allowed intercepting ultra-small targets with 1м0,02 EPR targets (promising PRLR, KR and low-profile 2 fighters). 5 km. The Belarusian version of the C-28-125TM “Pechora-2TM” is distinguished by a high maximum speed of the targeted 2 km / h (3240 m / s) target, an intercept range of 900 km, and the possibility of simultaneous shelling of two air targets, the other parameters are similar to the Russian modernization. The Ukrainian C-35,4-125D “Pechora-2D” air defense system has similar combat parameters, but the speed of the targeted target (2 m / s) is lower than that of the Russian and Belarusian modifications, the complex is single-channel.

The upper photo shows the combat control point (PBU) UNK-2D (left) and the antenna post with radar tracking and target designation UNV-2D, consisting of the base and antenna head of the HC-500-2D units. The command and control center is equipped with sufficiently modern display equipment, where each automated workplace for the calculation is equipped with two LCD MFIs, which display information about the tactical air situation received both by the radar facilities of the complex and given by radar-DRLO connected with the S-125-2D SAM in a single air defense system. Indicators can also output a TV-image of the target, obtained by a television-optical sight. The complex is significantly improved in comparison with the previous modifications. So from the graph (fig. Below) it can be seen that Pechora-2D is capable of intercepting targets at altitudes from 20 to 21000 meters, which implies the ability to combat cruise missiles in a difficult jamming environment and the ability to intercept all tactical aircraft even on the practical ceiling of it application. If such a complex still fell into the hands of DAISH from Ukraine, our videoconferencing systems find themselves in a situation where any regular departure must be carefully accompanied by a DER / RTR aircraft and photo-intelligence such as IL-20М1. It is known that this machine very successfully began to operate over Syria. In addition to the A-8P camera complex, 87 radio operator operators have the Igla-1 radar (for monitoring ground objects) and the Kvadrat-2 radioactive intelligence station, which operators can use to alert our friendly aviation about the work of the channel Pelera-2D and other systems representing the main threat



But the "Pechora-2D" as well as other versions of SAM, equipped with TV-optical sighting system, which allows to operate in passive mode detection, tracking and firing target, which is the most dangerous factor for the current FSI Russian aviation. Combat operation of an optical-electronic sighting system, in particular target designation for the 5В27 SAM, is not detected by standard Birch-type radiation warning systems, and can only be detected by specialized radio-electronic reconnaissance aircraft of the Tu-214P, Su-24MR type or radioelectronic reconnaissance containers capable of detecting the radio command channel of the 5B27 rocket control, which also applies to the Prran system, which is part of the Khibiny electronic warfare complex. That is, to counter the Pechora-2D air defense system, any link of attack aircraft of the Russian Aerospace Force should either have modern DER and EW equipment, or be escorted by at least one Su-34 aircraft with containers of the Khibiny complex on hangers. It is not for nothing that now Su-34 is used as the main combat unit of the Russian Aerospace Forces in Syria. But the operation of the optical-television system directly depends on the meteorological conditions in the theater of operations, therefore, preference can often be given to the radar control method using the UNV-2D antenna post (an upgraded version of the tracking station and target designation CHP-125), this will greatly simplify the task of detecting and destruction of these complexes using the usual means of suppressing air defense.

In order to ensure the safety of our airborne systems in the air, in addition to the air-to-air missiles of the RVV-MD, P-73 and P-77, the planes should also be equipped with X-58 and X-25MPU anti-radar missiles; or at least one plane attached to the strike. The need to take such measures, in my opinion, is absolutely reasonable and is not aimed at general exacerbation of the situation, because in recent days many curious and alarming facts have appeared.

The transfer to the southern provinces of Turkey of the long-range Patriot PAC-2 air defense missile systems, which had apparently already begun, requires the formation of a special anti-radar squadron of the Russian Aerospace Forces in Syria. The 12 Su-30CM multipurpose fighter jets, along with air combat missiles, can carry at least 24 PRLR X-58 (in the photo). Such a squadron is able to suppress the battery "Patriot" from the line, located outside its range. The missiles are unified with almost all types of Russian tactical fighters and attack aircraft, including the Su-25T / TM. There is also a version of the PLLR X-31P / PD


NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg, who, with Philip Breedlove, is talking about NATO’s work in de-escalating the situation after the tragedy with Su-24M, simultaneously blames the Russian videoconferencing, and at the same time declares additional military-technical measures to be taken to strengthen the security of Turkish air space. Strengthening the army of the aggressor country and the sponsor of terrorism continues. NATO commanders, according to Stoltenberg, has already taken a decision agreed with Turkey on the arrival and deployment on Turkish airbases additional American fighters to gain air superiority F-15C, as well as the indefinite number of British combat fighters. In the provinces of Turkey bordering on Syria, the bloc plans to increase the number of batteries of the Patriot long-range air defense system, which creates danger for the flight of aviation of the VCS over the northern parts of Syria, and it is impossible to do without anti-radar missiles here.

The false leadership of Turkey, also telling about the desire to de-escalate and restore communication channels at the level of the Ministry of Defense and the General Staff with the Russian Federation, in the very first days after the deployment of the C-400 in Latakia, redeployed the Koral EW complexes to the south of Turkey, which, in addition to protecting the armed forces of Turkey and American "Patriots" in their territory, can also cover the anti-aircraft missile battalions of IS militants and other opposition forces stationed in the north of Syria.

In turn, it is possible to note the very low efficiency of the Koral complex against our Triumph, since the radiating aperture of the Koral antenna array does not have the ability to irradiate the 92Н6E radar located outside the radio horizon because of its ground-based, and / semi-active homing missiles 9M96E2 (48N6E3) in extremely rare cases will be part of the active radiation zone "Coral" means, which is confirmed by the words of first deputy general director KRET Vla Dima Mikheev that the ground-based Coral is not able to withstand ground-based anti-aircraft missile systems.

But "Koral" can be effective against tactical strategic missiles "air-ground", "ship-to-land" with radar homing when the missiles are used against targets, to cover this complex, so when planning a possible retaliation for Turkish air defense can stop be placed on tactical missiles medium-range-type X 59ME "Ovod-ME" with TVGSN, television-command guidance noise immunity over prior EW land-based systems, since the connection between the carrier rocket and may be supported outside effective review of EW antennas. Not much is known about the number and characteristics of the REP Koral complex in the Turkish army, but the basic methods of its “nulling” are approximately clear.

Let us return to the safety of our aircraft from air-to-air missiles from ICGSN, which include all versions of the AIM-9 Sidewinder. It is reliably known that the Su-24M front-line bomber uses the L-082 Mac-UL heat finder, which is a passive infrared station of the upper hemisphere of an airplane to alert the launch of missiles with passive GOS on a rocket engine torch, but to warn the crew of our Mac bomber “Mac “I had no opportunity, because the blow came from the lower hemisphere, where the sensors of the complex were not installed due to the low effectiveness of detecting missiles against the background of the earth’s surface. For this reason, another, more advanced system immediately comes to mind, which today is used only on prototypes of the multipurpose MiG-35 fighter.

The fighter is equipped with one of the best in stories World Aviation Missile Attack Alert Systems - SOAR. The system is represented by two high-resolution opto-electronic cameras with large viewing angles: the first (VS-OAR) is responsible for the upper hemisphere and installed immediately behind the cockpit lantern on the fuselage gargrote, the second (NS-OAR) is responsible for the lower hemisphere and is installed in a special conformal module under the left engine (on the nacelle). Sensors can detect air-to-air missiles of the AIM-9X type at a distance of 15 - 20 km against the ground, anti-aircraft missiles of the MIM-104 type (“Patriot” air defense missile system) - up to 50 km with precise positioning and possible target indication for interception using their own weapons or missiles "in-in" friendly aircraft. In order to complete the flight safety in hazardous areas TVD each aircraft must be equipped with such a straightforward and compact Soare system. Be in place of the Su-24MIG-35 fighter, and the situation could go a completely different way. In the near future, starting with 2016, the United Aircraft Building Corporation plans to launch mass production of the MiG-35 with a total number of 100 machines, which will soon begin to flow into the Russian videoconferencing system. It is very likely that the MiG-35С will become the main fighter of the Russian Air Force in the European and Middle East theater: the relatively short range, super-maneuverability and the richest information field of the crew of these vehicles, compared with other fighters, predetermines their future area of ​​responsibility precisely in Europe and the Middle East, where a relatively small area of ​​the battlefield includes a huge number of threats from the sea, land and air.

Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar, along with their main "guide" - the United States is now doing everything to wrest influence in Syria from the hands of the Russian Federation at the expense of supporting the opposition, as well as the IG. Moreover, the dirtiest work is direct support of the IG (DAISH), given to Turkey, and the West is engaged only in supplying the opposition, but they plan to eliminate the IG afterwards. So over the past week and a half more than 2000 militants trained in Turkey joined the IS, and talks in Washington and Istanbul about closing the Turkish border from IS controlled by the Syrian provinces look like just another fiction. Qatar, under the sensitive US leadership, is creating a layered defense system for the Syrian anti-government forces, and in Libya, DAISh logists are quietly creating new training bases and fortifications, even with professional flight simulators, to practice new terrorist acts recently. And neither England, nor Germany, nor the 6 fleet of the US Navy take any measures against the Libyan center DAISH, but instead cynically “put on the tail” our RCM “Moscow” defending the air base Kmeimim, the destroyer URO DDG-64 “Carney” which in a matter of hours came to the Eastern Mediterranean from neutral waters and closely watches our ship just a few kilometers away.


US destroyer DDG-64 URO went from our Pcr "Moscow" at extremely close range, and continued surveillance of the Black Sea Fleet flagship, while the US Air Force of successful operations against Daishev not able to boast that confirms the purpose of the Americans in the conflict


Is this not a universal global conspiracy of the West against the Russian Federation at the moment when the fight against terrorism should be in the first place?

The actions of the French side are not entirely clear, the air force of which unexpectedly requested the use of Turkish airspace to attack IG, and this is when the nuclear-powered aircraft carrier R91 Charles de Gaulle is located near the Syrian coast, and the combat radius of action of “Rafaley” when flying at high altitudes is quite enough to reach the most distant provinces of Syria, especially since our C-400 operates in the area, “tightly” covering the sky from any unforeseen situations. This is another reason to think that someone very, very unwilling to see Russia, which in just a month ruined the basic structures of Daesh in the SAR, revealed the true intentions of the western side. West's actions today are reminiscent not so much the fight against terrorists as the total supervision of the actions of Russian VKS by all available means, from the intelligence services and the American destroyers to aircraft AWACS E-3G and deployed in Turkey's air defense systems and radar.

SITUATION AND OUTLOOK FOR GROUND theater Syria and zealously INTEREST inferiority (newly adopted), a member of NATO to the deployment of ground forces in the SAR

The active offensive operation of the Syrian government forces is now gaining momentum. The last few days, the UAR ATS with the support of the aviation of the Russian Aerospace Forces, the most trained units of the Iranian Armed Forces, and Hezbollah, have been able to press the IS and Dzhebkhat al-Nusra militants in the central and north-western parts of the Syrian Arab Republic. More recently, the strategically important city of Makhin in the province of Homs was cleaned of its IG Through the Makhin there passes the major transport highway Homs - Damascus, along which previously the IS militants could quickly send reinforcements from the central and eastern parts of Syria towards the provinces of Homs, Damascus and Lattakia. This week, the Syrian army successfully formed a tactical "boiler" in the city of Palmyra, thanks to which DAISH lost several thousand militants killed and captured at once. And in the north-west of the state there is a successful offensive against the groups of Turkomans and Dzhebhat an-Nusra; an important victory in this key tactical direction can be considered a lesson n. The village of Katf Hamidah, which contributed to the acceleration of the pace of blocking the Turkish-Syrian border from supplying terrorists by the Turkish government and volunteers. But the pace of blocking the Turkish-Syrian border is not quite sufficient now, and Syrian government forces have only a few weeks to complete the special operation in the area, as there was unexpected news indicating the development of an urgent plan by the Western coalition to intercept a strategic control initiative from Russia and the Assad army. over northern Syria.

On November 26, immediately after the tragedy with Su-24M, Al-Mayadin TV channel reported on the news that 50 American troops, including officers, crossed the Baynar checkpoint on the Turkish-Syrian border and moved to the city of Ein Al Arab. (Kobani), ostensibly to support the Kurds in the fight against the IG. Here now you are not digging, because, first, Kobani is really on the front line between the troops of the Syrian Kurds and the IG (along the Euphrates River), which is still far from the front on which the Assad army fights. Secondly, Russia is also forced to interact with the Kurds in order to accelerate the defeat of the IG reinforced areas, passing as a chain along the Euphrates. And while it is absolutely unknown what the real goal of the fifty American military in the area is.

This could be an advance employment by the American military of northern Syria to further demonstrate the presence and form a base to strengthen the NATO contingent of other alliance states in Syria when the Syrian army and Kurdish fronts meet after defeating Daesh, which will allow the West to dictate its geopolitical conditions in the Middle East, a kind of win-win option, and maybe taking under the protection of the transport "corridor", through which cheap oil flows from the IG to Turkey.

But the most interesting thing is not even this, but what Ankara in Washington could have promised was that the Turkish military across their own border quietly let the Kurdish “camp” in Syria 50 of the American military into Turkey’s enemy; By the way, not a single military-political Internet resource analyzed this important detail. Apparently, the military-technical defense against the Russian Aerospace Forces for Erdogan, promised by Stoltenberg and Bridlav, came to taste first, especially since we still have to find out many details.

From the combination of the facts it is clear that all classifications in the geostrategic plane is now being made against Russia, with even by the injured France, which strongly wanted to bomb the IG from Turkish territory, bypassing Russia defensive videoconferencing infrastructure, which the French seemed to feel friendly. The European Union is so friendly for us that at the moment of the maximum terrorist threat and the need to consolidate all the network-centric qualities of the European armies, the German Luftwaffe refused to share tactical information about the actions of their percussion Tornado IDS and EF-2000 Typhoon over Syria ... draw conclusions.

The time has come to mention the new henchmen of NATO in the face of such states as Bulgaria.

In early September, Bulgaria has already managed to distinguish itself in a “friendly” attitude towards Russia, closing its airspace to our transport aviation, which delivers humanitarian and military supplies to Syrian Latakia to support the Syrian population and the army in the fight against ISIS. The decision was made at the request of Washington.

The subsequent news was the possible participation of the Bulgarian Armed Forces in the ground operation in the SAR, to which, according to the Minister of Defense of Bulgaria Nikolay Nenchev, the country's army agrees with great pleasure. Apparently, among the camp of the main NATO "Illuminati" (USA, Britain, France and Germany) has long been ripening plan, according to which the ground coalition operation in Syria should be carried out, but not by their armies. "Rake" everything will be the NATO armies of the Third World countries, among which have long been joined by Bulgaria, Turkey - is no exception. It is possible that the arrival of American soldiers in the Syrian Ein-Al-Arab is the "first violin" of the West in the ground operation in the SAR, which will be continued by such minor countries as Bulgaria. Take a look, because the use of such a slave country as Bulgaria in solving NATO’s strategic tasks in the Middle East is beneficial even from a geographical point of view. The distance from the Bulgarian border to the Syrian border through the Bosphorus Bridge and the territory of Turkey is about 1500 km; various military equipment and some material and technical base can be delivered to Syria in just a day - two. Convenient, isn't it? So you ask yourself the question: why is the Bulgarian Minister of Defense so zealous? Further actions by the military leadership of Russia are already going on to pre-empt such a turn of events: the main side of the military operation today was the destruction of militants in parts of Syria bordering on Turkey and sensible ties with the Kurds, from where the Western Front can "wake up", which can later change the military political situation in the republic.

In addition to the fact that the Russian Aerospace Forces intensified the MRAU on the border bases of Dzhebhat an-Nusra, the IG and the Turkomans, Syria and Russia will include in the “game” the Iranian Air Force, which, according to the Kuwaiti edition of Al-Rai, have already allocated for the air operation two squadrons of its multi-role fighters (24 aircraft), among which can be almost any machine, from the MiG-29А and F-14A purchased in Russia and the USA, to the latest developments - the twin-engine HESA "Saeqeh" and the unobtrusive light X-gun fighter of the 5 generation " Qaher 313 "able to withstand the enemy at ultra-low altitudes in a developed air defense system. The Iranian Air Force has long wanted to try out new equipment in combat conditions. Aircraft can be placed on the runway at Tias Airport. The Iranian conflict, which is a full-fledged regional superpower, is preparing a very unpleasant surprise for the US, which, after any aggressive and unacceptable trick of its American allies in the Middle East, can create a whole US Navy in the Indian Ocean and the Persian Gulf, and support for the Yemeni Hosts. from Ansar Allah in the war against the Arab coalition and Al Qaeda, no one has yet forgotten.

THE BEGINNING OF THE POSITIONAL INTERVENTION OF THE TURKISH ARMY TO SYRIA AND IRAQ PRESENTS TWO STRATEGIC OBJECTIVES, BUT ITS CONSEQUENCES VERY FASTLY CAN BE FATAL FOR TURKEY MOST

While the Syrian government forces, with the support of the Russian Aerospace Forces headquarters in the SAR, are preparing a large-scale offensive in the province of Idlib, which is a stronghold of the main pro-Turkish terrorist Djabhat al-Nusra (the Al-Qaida Syrian branch), the general military situation in the Middle East, particulars already in northern Iraq, sharply aggravated due to the unauthorized aggressive actions of the NE of Turkey, which at first (November 26) occupied the tactically important hill Tal-Ziyab in northern Syria, and then the northern parts Iraqi province of Ninewa (5 of December).

In the case of the Syrian Tal-Ziyab, the invasion of armored units and infantrymen was clearly due to the creation of the last border fortified area at the turn of the Turkish border to protect the transport "corridor" through which oil from Syria and Iraq enters Turkey, and also as a possible future bridgehead for a land military operation against the Syrian army under the guise of fighting the Kurdistan. The Turkish military, immediately after occupying the Tal-Ziyab area, began the formation of a stronghold there with the help of bulldozers, and several FNSS Akinci infantry fighting vehicles, Otokar "Cobra" and OTBB were deployed to defend the perimeter.


The armored division of the Turkish army in the fortified area near Tal-Ziyab hill (Syria)


In the case of the Iraqi province of Ninava, we observe a similar militarized “show”, the purpose of which is to support Iraqi Kurds, who are known to be involved in the illegal traffic of petroleum products to Turkey, while the Turks naturally fight more often with the Syrian Kurdistan because they fear this self-proclaimed state in Turkish-Syrian border areas, and in the active oil trade with the Turks, the forces of Kurdish resistance in Syria were not caught. Syrian Kurds are protected by the Turkish intervention, and our task now is to seize the initiative in cooperation and military support of the Kurds, the US and NATO, which will actually and reliably block the Turkish-Syrian border and the Syrian our geopolitical interests. Recently it became known that even some militiamen from Donbass arrive in Syrian Kurdistan, perform the functions of coordinating Kurds with the Syrian army and Russian-speaking PMCs present in the ranks of the SAR army.

Washington has already managed to isolate itself from awareness and information support of the intervention of Turkish troops in the province of Nineveh. And this completely contradicts the concept of the NATO charter on cooperation of the members of the alliance in the event of an escalation of the conflict, in which at least one of them participates, to which Turkey belongs, especially since the Turkish Armed Forces have already begun to receive US military support to protect Russia from the Russian Aerospace Forces. On the contrary, the United States is well aware and is working with Ankara on any subsequent step of the latter. The United States reliably covers and patronizes Turkey’s strategy to control the oil-bearing territories of Iraq and Syria, as it is beneficial both in terms of selling lucrative energy resources to countries in the Asia-Pacific region (Japan, South Korea, the Philippines) and in terms of holding the NATO military areas where the advantage goes to the side of the pro-Russian forces.

Turkey, with its aggressive actions, has already crossed all the permissible edges. Apparently, Erdogan did not have enough words and warnings from the Russian leadership, and the Turkish army in Iraq and Syria is one step away from attacking by the Iraqi Armed Forces, as well as the escalation of a new conflict that could develop into a big regional war, in which the Turks would be very tight.

Despite the fact that the Iraqi territory is now approximately 3000 US military training armed forces of Iraq against terrorists, the Iraqi leadership is quite aware of what is such courage and "cheek" Turkish Armed Forces, unhappy and plans for the transfer of new special units of the US Army in the country and therefore there will definitely not be a “blind eye” to the antics of Turkey. The Iraqi head of security and defense, Hakim al-Zamili, advised the prime minister to use strike aviation against the Turkish army in the north of the country, and how this can end depends only on the prudence of the Americans, who oversee the whole Turkish cuisine.

If the Turkish Armed Forces actually go to the intervention in Iraq and the CAP, even when Western support, it will directly affect both the Syrian and Russian, and Iraq, and even Iran's interests, because the IRGC military has long been fighting on the side of Bashar al-Assad; after that, the current Turkish regime and the largest army in Europe will be doomed. No one will allow the West’s military-political interest in the Middle East to prevail over the activities of the “devouring” DAISH that threaten the world.

The situation in the SAR is now the most complex in the history of military conflicts in the World. The complex structure and hierarchy among the multiple parties to the conflict, including terrorists, most often acting in favor of the Western coalition, forces the Russian AULF to act faster and more deliberately, attracting all possible means to achieve a military-political preponderance in this complex region.
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  1. Snail N9
    Snail N9 7 December 2015 08: 10 New
    20
    Очень хорошая, продуманная статья, резко выделяющаяся на фоне кучи "бредовой ура-аналитики" или "шутовских" писулек казарменных "ура-патриотов". Автору несомненный плюс.
    1. Abrekkos
      Abrekkos 7 December 2015 13: 10 New
      +4
      I do not share the enthusiasm for the article. On the contrary, it is, to put it mildly, not very competent and somewhat biased in the spirit of patriotism.

      Не имея сил и желания разбирать все натяжки и неточности т. к. их просто море дам несколько замечаний по одной фразе.

      R-73 melee missiles, R-27ER long-range missiles (pictured) and more advanced R-77s (RVV-AE) will counter any possible threats from fighters of the Western coalition at ranges up to 110 km. Also, the most complex and missile-hazardous air operations will be assigned to the most modern front-line Su-34 fighter-bombers, which, unlike the Su-24M, can well stand up for themselves in both close and long-range aerial combat. An important technological advantage of the Su-34 is its most powerful airborne radar with PFAR Sh-141 "Predator", which in the air-to-air mode has much greater noise immunity than American radars with a slot antenna array AN / APG-63 and AN / APG -68 (installed on Turkish F-16C and American F-15C at Incirlik airbase), the best range and stability of work on targets with an EPR of 3 m2 (up to 130 km), as well as 2 times greater target channel when using RVV-AE missiles


      First of all, it’s not clear with what fright the missiles indicated in it became “long-range” missiles?
      It is not clear why this RVV-AE with “allows you to withstand at ranges up to 110 km” if its launch range is in no way more than 80 km? The author did not confuse it with a completely different missile that they are only going to put into service?

      And why did the author forget to mention the AIM-120C-7 and AIM-120D missiles available to Turkey and the forces opposing us.
      Is it because these missiles are superior to all the missiles available in the arsenal of our army and all that can come in the near future? Or does the author just plainly not know anything?

      Also, the phrase “Su-34’s technological advantage is considered to be its most powerful airborne radar with PFAR Sh-141“ Predator ”” is completely incomprehensible. Not to mention incorrect terminology, it is not clear who is considered and before whom?
      Какое агентство ОБС сообщило автору что дальность и устойчивость работы по целям с ЭПР 3 м2 составляет до 130 км? Это вообще не корректная формулировка т. к. обнаружение цели это вероятностный процесс. Реальная дальность по таким целям при вероятности обнаружения 0,8 практически в полтора раза меньше.

      And how is it possible to row completely different radars AN / APG-63 and AN / APG-68 under one comb? Or even the APG-68 of different versions?
      For information, I will say that AN / APG-68 (V) 9 which is just equipped with Turkish F-16 has a detection range of 300km. In a real jamming environment, targets with an EPR of 3m2 with a probability of not less than 0,8 have a range of at least 120-140 km. In all other respects, it also surpasses the chanted Sh-141 "Predator". Sh-141 "Predator" was a good product for its time, but time has passed.

      So those who know how to count and not just read and write AN / APG-68 (V) 9 are considered to be more likely an analogue of our most modern Irbis radar mounted on the Su-35 and by no means inferior to the Sh-141 Predator. Unless, of course, judged by the real characteristics in a real situation.

      И т. д. и т. п. словом либо автор подгонял факты под нужный результат в расчете на то, что пипл все схавает лишь бы вывод был правильный.
      Or simply does not quite own the topic of which he writes.

      But mine needs to believe what is actually and not what you want to believe in.
      1. Fulcrumxnumx
        7 December 2015 21: 26 New
        +2
        Abrekkos, не спешите с некомпетентными комментариями, Вы хоть литературу по радиолокации почитайте в свободное время: бортовая РЛС APG-68(V)9 хоть и имеет режим работы с синтезированной апертурой, не обладает высокими энергетическими параметрами, а поэтому и дальность её работы по цели типа "истребитель поколения 4+" (ЭПР примерно 1,5 м2) составляет всего 80 - 85 км. А дальность 300 км - инструментальная дальность по крупным целям типа "бомбардировщик". А "Хищник" - гораздо более совершенный радиолокационный комплекс, с более высокой мощностью передатчика и площадью апертуры АР. Касаемо предложения:
        "Ракеты ближнего боя Р-73, большой дальности Р-27ЭР (на фото) и более совершенные Р-77 (РВВ-АЕ) позволят противостоять любым возможным угрозам со стороны истребителей западной коалиции на дальностях до 110 км."Неужели не понятно, что 110 км - это дальность ракеты Р-27ЭР, да и Р-77 в ППС (при) стратосферном пуске к сотне тоже подтягивается. А по поводу того, что может появится в ближайшее время, так это ракеты РВВ-БД или МиГ-31БМ с ракетами Р-37, и можете AIM-120D (C-7/8) сразу списывать.
      2. max702
        max702 7 December 2015 23: 03 New
        +1
        Well, NATO pulled itself up, and as the hat-tellers shouted at the beginning, NATO does not support Turkey, the question is already about exclusion of that from the bloc .. Yeah, right now! As I said earlier, there is a regrouping of forces and means according to the changed situation, but in the beginning it was possible to frown and eyebrows (until the necessary forces and means have been deployed) giving censure, but in fact at that time they opened champagne just like they opened it when reported the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor .. All the traffic went! And in the right way! there was a risk that the Russians would not adequately react and erase the base (with which the F-16 took off) with a missile with a nuclear ballistic missile, but wow! It turned out .. Again, as the analysts predicted, they turned their eyes, puffed out their cheeks, closed their tomatoes (they were laughing at it in the Pentagon), threw a few planes, dragged the air defense division and everything .. Tell me how all these actions have shaken the determination of the bourgeois to continue your dirty work? They did not suffer any losses, under this bench they sharply increase their military group, quietly glancing around our limited contingent with a quiet glanders, and driving us into an unprofitable position with their brazen but effective actions, putting us before the fact that we must answer but is VERY disadvantageous! What are we going to do when we shot down a plane that we’ve shot down (if we don’t shoot a couple of ours) they will raise a question about an attack on a NATO member, there is no doubt about PR support (everyone has long been ready to wait for the go-ahead), in response they will fire at our base something heavy, maybe a boat will be repaid, will it suffice for us to answer after that HOW? Or will we continue to resent and puff out our cheeks? We will only make half measures worse by provoking our opponents, they outperform us tenfold in capabilities in this region, and in order to at least somehow level the chances, the group must be increased by an order of magnitude. but we won’t be allowed to do this! And they will do this in completely different ways, for example, today's fall in oil prices is one of them ..
  2. Wolka
    Wolka 7 December 2015 08: 23 New
    11
    хороший обзор, автору плюс, однако меня больше теперь интересует персидский залив, запад не начнет активных действий пока не приготовит себе пути отступления (понятно, что основными силами исправления ситуации в "проблемном регионе", проще нападения, будут силы ДАИШ, сухопутные войска турции и несколько сявок от НАТО, при активной поддержке авиации коалиции от янки в основном морского базирования, а также обеспечивающих прикрытие средств ПВО, расположенных также на кораблях и чуть на суше опять же турции),т.е. это средиземноморье и персидский залив, ну этакая "бутылка с двумя горлышками"... а еще ждемс, когда янки дернут за веревочку и активизируется ВСУ и прочая укронацистская шпана на Донбассе
    1. Mikhail Krapivin
      Mikhail Krapivin 7 December 2015 08: 56 New
      +3
      Quote: Volka
      and we’re still waiting for the Yankees to pull the rope and the APU and other ukronazistsky punks in the Donbass are activated



      Yesterday intensified ...
    2. hydrox
      hydrox 7 December 2015 09: 17 New
      +3
      Quote: Volka
      the West will not begin active actions until it prepares for itself a way of retreat


      This is irrelevant if Iran enters the game with its two squadrons. God forbid, an Iranian plane will be shot down - and the blockade of the Persian Gulf will be ensured by Iran.
    3. Valiich
      Valiich 7 December 2015 22: 10 New
      -1
      Да, согласен с Вами! И Персидский залив и многое другое, " сявки" и ВСУ, все верно.Считаю, прежде чем начинать такую много ходовую операцию, со многими вариантами ВКС России и Главный Штаб ВС РФ и лично ВВП, продумали реакцию NATO. В такой обстановке важно помнить "Для Запада - Россия, всегда, как кость в горле...",поэтому быть максимально внимательными и корректными как в словах так и в действиях. Считаю, главное ещё не сказано. И слово за ВВП и ВС РФ. На днях отпраздновали 5 Декабря, День масштабного котрнаступления Советских войск под Москвой! Слава героям тех далеких и таких близких и тяжелых дней!
  3. GUKTU
    GUKTU 7 December 2015 09: 01 New
    +5
    А у меня один вопрос: "Почему наше военное руководство послало на задание Су 24 без прикрытия?". Турки готовили провокацию не один день и наши технические средства разведки видели активность турок в районе действий ВКС. Доводы мол типа не ожидали удара в спину, считаю не уместными и преступными. Есть такие понятия как: всесторонне обеспечение боя, оценка противника и т.д.. Почему все это не было учтено??? Просто взяли и преподнесли туркам на блюдечке наш самолет. Надеюсь хоть крейсер МОСКВА догадались прикрыть с моря?
  4. Kalmar
    Kalmar 7 December 2015 09: 06 New
    +7
    Quote: article
    Is this not a universal global conspiracy of the West against the Russian Federation at the moment when the fight against terrorism should be in the first place?

    Осспаде, ну сколько можно наивными овечками прикидываться? Никто ни с каким терроризмом не борется: каждый в этом конфликте преследует свои личные цели, а террористы - они функцию массовки больше выполняют. Россия там сейчас мешает западным "партнерам", поэтому очевидно, что поддерживать ее в Сирии никто на Западе не станет. Надо уже смириться с этим и жить дальше.

    Quote: article
    Turkish army in Iraq and Syria is one step away from striking by Iraqi Armed Forces

    Oh, that would be fun to watch. Turkey is, for a minute, a member of NATO, and Iraq, also for a minute, on a short leash from the United States. A real conflict here is possible only if the Turks offend the Americans with something, but so far they are more or less all right.

    Quote: article
    Syria and Russia will include in the "game" of the Iranian Air Force

    Ага, а США/Европа их также легко и непринужденно "выключат" при необходимости, просто пригрозив Ирану вернуть на место санкции. Иран за возможность продавать газ в Европу готов душу продать, так что ссориться с Западом точно не захочет.

    Quote: article
    No one will allow the military and political interest of the West in the Middle East to prevail over the activities of the "devouring" Daesh that threaten the world.

    Hmm, the military and political interests of the West in BV have been prevailing over everything and everything in this region for more than half a century. Something has changed?
  5. sergant89
    sergant89 7 December 2015 09: 19 New
    +1
    It’s a huge plus for the author for an analytically competent article, God forbid that in our General Staff with great attention they scan this ball (snake) of countries trying to squeeze Russia out of a geopolitically important region.
  6. DobryAAH
    DobryAAH 7 December 2015 09: 23 New
    +1
    Whoever supplies air defense against our pilots is tantamount to declaring war by us with the wrong hands. Khokhlam is time to twist the withers, if this fact is confirmed. And the Americans should get out to the aid of the Turks, if we sniff them in their country. There they mug and soap.
  7. Snail N9
    Snail N9 7 December 2015 09: 37 New
    +3
    Quote: Good AAAH
    Who supplies air defense against our pilots is tantamount to declaring war on us

    And by the way, when the Turks shot down our bomber, our President said just that. Now let's see if he is responsible for his words or not.
    1. DobryAAH
      DobryAAH 7 December 2015 09: 41 New
      +2
      He then answers, but we have little information about everything that happens. Putin, in my opinion, is drawing time while Russia is rearming.
      1. Snail N9
        Snail N9 7 December 2015 09: 51 New
        0
        Я имею виду, что предпримет Президент, если высотные комплексы ПВО окажутся в руках ИГИЛ-ДАИШ? Кому он "объявит войну"? Неужели, Катару или Саудовской Аравии? Или это было просто так сказано, так сказать-в "эмоциональном порыве"?
      2. Kalmar
        Kalmar 7 December 2015 12: 06 New
        +1
        Quote: Good AAAH
        Putin, in my opinion, is drawing time while Russia is rearming.

        Um, and until what time to pull? All our opponents - real and potential - are also rearming. So, will we endlessly pull the cat by the eggs in a long box while the supposts are greyhounding? Oh well.
  8. Volzhanin
    Volzhanin 7 December 2015 09: 40 New
    +6
    But is it not time to pull the ears of the mattress out of this story for all to see?
    Or will we continue to lick them with their kicks?
    Melkobrit and American - Russian - blood enemy. And in the next 100 years nothing will change. So can build relationships based on this postulate, and not fool each other's brains?
    1. DobryAAH
      DobryAAH 7 December 2015 09: 43 New
      +3
      Words can’t convince a mattress, only with a club.
    2. Kalmar
      Kalmar 7 December 2015 11: 06 New
      +1
      Quote: Volzhanin
      So can build relationships based on this postulate, and not fool each other's brains?

      Хороший вопрос; задать бы его нашим вождям: почему на словах мы тут отчаянно боремся с США и их наймитами, а как дело доходит до дела, так они сразу оказываются "западными партнерами", с которыми надо диалог налаживать, за ручку здороваться и денег подбрасывать (через покупки американских гособлигаций)?
      1. Things
        Things 7 December 2015 13: 03 New
        +2
        Quote: Kalmar
        toss moneythrough purchases of US government bonds)?

        Well, in fact, the Russian Federation got rid of part of the state government bonds and greatly reduced the rate of their acquisition.
        "... even despite the May reverse trend, in general, American papers now hold almost two times less Russian reserves than at the end of 2013. So, in December 2013 the volume of US government securities in the Russian portfolio amounted to 138,6 billion dollars, in August 2014 - already 118,1 billion dollars, after building up securities in May - only 70,6 billion dollars"
        http://www.vz.ru/economy/2015/7/17/756687.html
        Why they didn’t get rid of / didn’t refuse at all - this is a question for competent financiers and analysts ...
        1. Kalmar
          Kalmar 7 December 2015 13: 42 New
          +1
          Quote: Asiat
          Well, in fact, the Russian Federation got rid of part of the state government bonds and greatly reduced the rate of their acquisition.

          I'm afraid you have outdated information:
          In August, the Bank of Russia continued active purchases of US government bonds. Over the month, the volume of investments by the Central Bank in American debt grew by $ 7,8 billion - up to $ 89,9 billion, the portal Finanz.ru reports with reference to the US Treasury.

          .

          The volume of investments in the US public debt in August was 3,2 times higher than budget expenditures for supporting the national economy (163 billion rubles), 1,6 times higher than expenses for social welfare of citizens (316 billion rubles), 7,1 times higher than expenses for healthcare (24,2 billion rubles), 12 times - education costs (19,4 billion rubles), 79 times - investments in housing and communal services (6,56 rubles) and 865 times - environmental costs (0,6 billion rubles).


          Link: http://expert.ru/2015/10/19/tsb-vlozhil-v-gosobligatsii-ssha-polovinu-byudzheta-
          rossii /.
  9. 31rus
    31rus 7 December 2015 09: 44 New
    +1
    Автору ,спасибо,хотя иранский самолет 5 го поколения это слишком.Дальше автор игнорирует почему то флот,а ведь именно оттуда могут прилететь не жданные "подарки",еще один важный аспект на который обращают мало внимания ,почему то мы не спешим пере вооружать сирийскую армию,по общей обстановке все идет по сценарию США и навязать свою игру России уже не дадут,в самом начале нашей операции в Сирии предпологалась такое развитие,мы с сирийцами воюем,коалиция "участвует в разделе приложив минимум затрат и усилий,кроме того позволяет бес конечно долго "муссировать"вопрос с Асадом
  10. rudolff
    rudolff 7 December 2015 09: 51 New
    +7
    Несколько неожиданным стало довольно жесткое заявление иракских властей на "турецкую агрессию ". Не постеснялись американцев, молодцы. Странно, что Дамаск с Москвой молчат. Турки устанавливают блок-посты на территории Сирии, американцы вводят спецназ, бомбят так вообще уже все кому не лень. А где официальные протесты, где вызовы послов и вручения нот, где обращения в совбез ООН? Тем более Россия постоянный член совета. Если так и будем молчать и набиваться в союзники, реально дождемся открытия "второго фронта" и как следствие раздела Сирии на окупационные зоны.
  11. Zomanus
    Zomanus 7 December 2015 10: 37 New
    +1
    Kapets. That spun ...
    It will be stronger than the Maidan, definitely.
    I even forgot, and Belarusians sell their air defense systems to which of the Middle East countries?
  12. iouris
    iouris 7 December 2015 11: 59 New
    +1
    С самого начала было понятно, что операция против ДАИШ (тогда ИГИЛ) в итоге приведёт к прямому столкновению с Турцией, Катаром и Саудовской Аравией, далее по нарастающей: НАТО - США. В случае применения ДАИШ и "оппозицией" модернизированных советских комплексов ПВО С-125, можно констатировать провал внешнеполитического обеспечения действий ВКС в Сирии. "Успешная" торговля оружием со странами Залива приводит к тому, что наши войска и войска наших естественных союзников будут воевать против противника, оснащённого новейшим российским и модернизированным советским оружием. Или разработаны технологии нейтрализации этих вооружений?
    Кстати, возможно, сбитие "Боинга" над Донбассом осуществлено модернизированным С-125.
    1. Snail N9
      Snail N9 7 December 2015 12: 28 New
      -1
      Все "плохо" по-любому-будем продолжать наносить удары по ИГИЛ-ДАИШ обязательно, рано или поздно, но попадем по "умеренной оппозиции" где в этот момент будут "западные" "советники", и соответственно, получим "ответку" от "западных партнеров"-это только вопрос времени. Или "сцепимся" с авиацией "западной коалиции". И, что будет тогда? Война? Третья мировая война? Или есть какой-то план "В"? Может, у уважаемых форумчан есть какие-то "мысли" на этот счет? Что-то, мне вся эта ситуация не нравится-я откровенно боюсь того, что дело кончится Третьей Мировой.
      1. Kalmar
        Kalmar 7 December 2015 12: 43 New
        +1
        Quote: Snail N9
        Все "плохо" по-любому-будем продолжать наносить удары по ИГИЛ-ДАИШ обязательно, рано или поздно, но попадем по "умеренной оппозиции" где в этот момент будут "западные" "советники", и соответственно, получим "ответку" от "западных партнеров"-это только вопрос времени. Или "сцепимся" с авиацией "западной коалиции". И, что будет тогда? Война?

        The answer, in fact, has already been received. As you can see, the war did not start. Unfortunately, the current situation in Russia is such that there is no need to untie the Third World with it. It’s enough for the West to simply introduce more serious sanctions, drop oil / gas prices even more, and, in general, everything: we won’t be at all in Syria.
  13. Things
    Things 7 December 2015 12: 57 New
    0
    Quote: Good AAAH
    Putin, in my opinion, is drawing time while Russia is rearming.

    I think so too, and in the current situation, time plays in Russia’s favor, while Oia and its pack are well aware of this, and most likely therefore the events are becoming more insidious and chaotic - creatures are in a hurry, afraid! ..
    Georgia (2008), Ukraine, miserable swamp-bulk hysteria in Russia, Syria, the bombing of a Boeing, the downed Su-24, the terrorist attack in Paris and much more are all links in one chain.
    1. Kalmar
      Kalmar 7 December 2015 13: 44 New
      -1
      Quote: Asiat
      in the current situation, time plays in Russia's favor

      Too shy to ask: how?
  14. Abrekkos
    Abrekkos 7 December 2015 13: 20 New
    +1
    Quote: GUKTU
    А у меня один вопрос: "Почему наше военное руководство послало на задание Су 24 без прикрытия?".


    And what would cover give in the absence of military operations with Turkey?
    1. Kalmar
      Kalmar 7 December 2015 13: 46 New
      +1
      Quote: Abrekkos
      And what would cover give in the absence of military operations with Turkey?

      Оно дало бы, скажем, дальнейшее отсутствие военных действий с Турцией. В том смысле, что турки вряд ли рискнули бы атаковать Су-24, если бы рядом летела парочка Су-30, груженых ракетами "воздух-воздух".
      1. Things
        Things 7 December 2015 15: 13 New
        +1
        Quote: Kalmar
        турки вряд ли рискнули бы атаковать Су-24, если бы рядом летела парочка Су-30, груженых ракетами "воздух-воздух".

        The goal - the provocation was clearly set and the Turks would have fulfilled it in any way.
        Perhaps if the Turks had escorted, they would not have used aviation, but would have hit the plane from an air defense system under the same false pretext - violation of airspace ...
        1. Kalmar
          Kalmar 7 December 2015 16: 38 New
          +1
          Quote: Asiat
          The goal - the provocation was clearly set and the Turks would have fulfilled it in any way.
          Perhaps if the Turks had escorted, they would not have used aviation, but would have hit the plane from an air defense system under the same false pretext - violation of airspace ...

          Firstly, the pretext is not 100% false: the Su-24 still slightly touched the territory of Turkey. This, albeit with difficulty, can be seen even in the pictures that the Defense Ministry uploaded. It is not clear why it was so close to fly up to the Turkish border. But it is, the lyrics.

          Secondly, you can’t use SAMs imperceptibly: airplanes must detect radar irradiation, and there the EW facilities and all kinds of anti-aircraft maneuvers come into play.

          В-третьих, если там ЗРК стоят, то всегда можно намекнуть турецким "партнерам", что на истребителях сопровождения и противорадарные ракеты имеются. На случай, если в руки ИГИЛ какой-нибудь там С-125 попадет, разумеется ;)
      2. iouris
        iouris 7 December 2015 17: 33 New
        +1
        An attempt to bring down our plane by the Turkish Air Force should have been foreseen by the overly nervous reaction of the Turks to the first violation and the statement of the US Secretary of Defense.
        Now we should expect the use of the Qatari S-125 and bombings of hospitals with hostages of Soviet-made air bombs purchased by Qatar in Ukraine.
        You can solve the problem by destroying Qatar (morally, of course).
  15. Abrekkos
    Abrekkos 7 December 2015 14: 07 New
    +2
    Quote: Kalmar
    Оно дало бы, скажем, дальнейшее отсутствие военных действий с Турцией. В том смысле, что турки вряд ли рискнули бы атаковать Су-24, если бы рядом летела парочка Су-30, груженых ракетами "воздух-воздух".


    Perhaps, but unlikely.
    First, they planned this attack, and if there was an order for it, then it would have happened.

    Secondly, the F-16 would immediately perform the maneuver and go deep into the territory, in the conditions of the mountains, it would easily fall off the Su-30 target designator. It could have been destroyed, but already quite deep in the territory.

    In addition, our pilot himself would not dare to immediately destroy an aircraft located in the territory of another state. During this time, the F-16 would have managed to come off far and at this distance would be more dangerous for the Su-30SM than the Su-30SM for it. Nobody canceled ground defense too.
    An attempt to pursue could well end in the fall of our aircraft in Turkey. Wasn't that what they wanted?

    In addition, the Urks probably patrolled not 1-2 planes but 6-10. Escort to engage in battle with this ratio is obviously not profitable. You don’t think that 2-24 Su-8s should be sent to escort 10 Su-30s?

    In short, an attacker from behind and from his territory always has advantages.

    Although the factor of fear of retaliation you mentioned and the lack of confidence in your own impunity certainly also works.
    1. Kalmar
      Kalmar 7 December 2015 16: 45 New
      +1
      Во-первых, если видим вражеский самолет неподалеку, можно сразу взять его "на прицел". Датчики облучения на нем есть, он сразу поймет, что дело пахнет керосином.

      Во-вторых, если уж наша авиация такая беспомощная перед турками, то зачем вообще было к ним так близко подходить? В 10-15км от турецкой границы никто бы "сушек" атаковать не стал, ибо эффект совсем не тот.
    2. Kalmar
      Kalmar 7 December 2015 16: 45 New
      +1
      Во-первых, если видим вражеский самолет неподалеку, можно сразу взять его "на прицел". Датчики облучения на нем есть, он сразу поймет, что дело пахнет керосином.

      Во-вторых, если уж наша авиация такая беспомощная перед турками, то зачем вообще было к ним так близко подходить? В 10-15км от турецкой границы никто бы "сушек" атаковать не стал, ибо эффект совсем не тот.
  16. Things
    Things 7 December 2015 15: 09 New
    +1
    Quote: Kalmar
    Quote: Asiat
    in the current situation, time plays in Russia's favor

    Too shy to ask: how?

    No need to be shy - all of them are here! .. (?)
    Во-первых не "врубая ответку" по полной(как этого хотят дерьмократы) Путин опровергает западные мифы об агрессии,воинственно-захватническом характере действий России и в то же время турки+другие НАТОвцы,штатовцы в очередной раз показывают мировой арене своё "миролюбие" и по сути бессилие перед Россией(provocations do not count for meanness and provocations are the destiny of the weak)
    Secondly, an open armed confrontation against NATO (and in fact the United States, too) is extremely disadvantageous for Russia. Yes, in recent years, Russia's defense power has been building up at an accelerated pace (hence the discontent and incessant hysteria of the West and all kinds of provocations), but the work to modernize and strengthen the Armed Forces of the Russian Federation has not yet been completed - you need to buy time and at the same time push / act politically / diplomatically, which the Russian Federation does and is bearing fruit - Russia has begun to be reckoned with and you can’t argue with that.
    Here by the way are good sayings of Sun Tzu, just on the topic:
    -"Тот, кто знает, когда он может сражаться, а когда не может, будет победителем"
    -"Война — это путь обмана. Поэтому, даже если ты способен, показывай противнику свою неспособность. Когда должен ввести в бой свои силы, притворись бездеятельным. Когда цель близко, показывай, будто она далеко; когда же она действительно далеко, создавай впечатление, что она близко.."
    -"Правило ведения войны заключается в том, чтобы не полагаться на то, что противник не придет, а полагаться на то, с чем я могу его встретить; не полагаться на то, что он не нападет, а полагаться на то, что я сделаю нападение на себя невозможным для него."
    -"Мощь – это умение применять тактику, сообразуясь с выгодой."
    -"Самая лучшая война — разбить замыслы противника; на следующем месте — разбить его союзы; на следующем месте — разбить его войска. Самое худшее — осаждать крепости."
    1. Kalmar
      Kalmar 7 December 2015 16: 52 New
      -1
      Quote: Asiat
      не "врубая ответку" по полной(как этого хотят дерьмократы) Путин опровергает западные мифы об агрессии,воинственно-захватническом характере действий России

      Не смешите. Всяким CNN и BBC вполне хватит того же "крымнаша", чтобы продолжать Вову рисовать жутким агрессором. Своим бездействием мы скорее доказываем западные мифы о том, что Россия ничем не может на действия Запада ответить.

      Quote: Asiat
      Secondly, an open armed confrontation against NATO (and, in fact, the US, too) is now extremely unprofitable for Russia

      And what, except how to drop an adrenaline bomb, there are no options?

      Quote: Asiat
      you need to gain time and at the same time push / act politically / diplomatically, which the Russian Federation is doing and it is bearing fruit - Russia began to be reckoned with and you can’t argue with that

      Ну расскажите, на кого это мы там так успешно надавили после инцидента? И насчет считаться: даже наши "союзники" вроде той же Белоруссии не снизошли до того, чтобы хоть как-то Турцию обвинить или упрекнуть. Ограничилсь выражением своей обеспокоенности ситуацией. Сильно, ага.
    2. Kalmar
      Kalmar 7 December 2015 16: 52 New
      -1
      Quote: Asiat
      не "врубая ответку" по полной(как этого хотят дерьмократы) Путин опровергает западные мифы об агрессии,воинственно-захватническом характере действий России

      Не смешите. Всяким CNN и BBC вполне хватит того же "крымнаша", чтобы продолжать Вову рисовать жутким агрессором. Своим бездействием мы скорее доказываем западные мифы о том, что Россия ничем не может на действия Запада ответить.

      Quote: Asiat
      Secondly, an open armed confrontation against NATO (and, in fact, the US, too) is now extremely unprofitable for Russia

      And what, except how to drop an adrenaline bomb, there are no options?

      Quote: Asiat
      you need to gain time and at the same time push / act politically / diplomatically, which the Russian Federation is doing and it is bearing fruit - Russia began to be reckoned with and you can’t argue with that

      Ну расскажите, на кого это мы там так успешно надавили после инцидента? И насчет считаться: даже наши "союзники" вроде той же Белоруссии не снизошли до того, чтобы хоть как-то Турцию обвинить или упрекнуть. Ограничилсь выражением своей обеспокоенности ситуацией. Сильно, ага.
  17. Snail N9
    Snail N9 7 December 2015 16: 25 New
    -1
    Quote: Asiat
    The rule of warfare is

    Клаузевиц или Сунь Цзы? Однако...как показывает опыт для России война всегда начинается тогда, когда она к ей "не совсем готова". Увы.
  18. Foxmara
    Foxmara 7 December 2015 17: 39 New
    +2
    Quote: GUKTU
    Why did our military leadership send Su 24 without cover to the mission?

    because a free hunt was announced (remember) for oil trucks. And ISIS does not fly in the sky (as we thought).
  19. Abrekkos
    Abrekkos 7 December 2015 17: 58 New
    +2
    Quote: Kalmar
    Во-первых, если видим вражеский самолет неподалеку, можно сразу взять его "на прицел". Датчики облучения на нем есть, он сразу поймет, что дело пахнет керосином.


    В Ваших словах ключевое слово "вражеский" но на тот момент Турция нам врагом не была. Официально она была другом вместе с которым мы прорываем блокаду ЕС по газовому транзиту. Которому мы за свои деньги строим АЭС тратя 10-ки млрд$ с окупаемостью 25-20 лет. Т.е. у нас был план дружбы минимум на 30 лет. Она даже потенциальным противником не была. Даже во времена холодной войны облучение чужого самолета на его территории считалось агрессивным актом и практически никогда не использовалось. Если бы при всех этих условиях летчик бы как вы говорите взял на прицел, то тут же мы бы получили дипломатический протест. И что бы было тому летчику? Такие решения не для майоров и даже не для генералов. Разрешение на подобное дают политики.
    And irradiation would hardly force to cancel the task.

    Quote: Kalmar
    Во-вторых, если уж наша авиация такая беспомощная перед турками, то зачем вообще было к ним так близко подходить? В 10-15км от турецкой границы никто бы "сушек" атаковать не стал, ибо эффект совсем не тот.


    Well, she’s not so helpless. Just the alignment in this place at this time is not ours.
    But not approaching the border is not always easy, especially in mountainous areas, with that border configuration, with a certain wind situation, etc. For this, we would have to create a large flightless zone where the militants felt safe. This is what Turkey sought with protests and drones on earth. Which in the end both sides did.
    But obviously no one decided to make such a decision out of fear.

    Although the Turks within a month made all possible warnings in the military language. Until the demonstration of a downed drone. And the question you posed could not but be on the agenda when planning operations. But this is again a question for politicians. The military just posed this question. To give up and give up the zone under the control of Turkey or to ignore warnings operating throughout Syria but with risk. No one below the Minister of Defense could solve this issue. This is politics.
    The military immediately told us that a war in the air with neighbors was not needed. We won’t win it. They were told approx. Based on this, all military planning was conducted.
    1. Kalmar
      Kalmar 7 December 2015 21: 51 New
      +1
      Quote: Abrekkos
      В Ваших словах ключевое слово "вражеский" но на тот момент Турция нам врагом не была.

      Вот только не надо в наивных чукотских мальчиков играть. "Сушки" искали и бомбили бензовозы, которые шли в Турцию. На что мы рассчитывали-то? Типа, турки такие: "Oh, where do our smuggled oil tanks come from the terrorists? We must ask our Russian friends, they will suddenly help to find".

      Потом, данный инцидент с "нарушением" (или реально нарушением) турецкой границы был не первым, и турки еще в начале октября прямым текстом заявляли, что готовы применить силу, если снова кого в своем воздушном пространстве заметят.

      In the end, one must understand that in big politics there is no friendship, there are only interests. And it will be foolish and naive to think that at our expense the Turks will love us for the new NPP until the end of their days. Nothing like this.

      Quote: Abrekkos
      Just the alignment in this place at this time is not ours.

      So there was nothing to meddle in this place at this time. First, Turkey had to be persuaded (persuaded, forced) to cooperate, guaranteed (publicly and loudly) the safety of flights of Russian aviation, and only then fly under the nose of the Turkish air defense forces. In the end, Messrs. Lavrov, Churkin and others like them do not just get their salary. But no, they hoped for a chance: they say that the Turks are embroiled, they will not shoot. And take the Turks and not Zassa. So it turned out what happened.
  20. 31rus
    31rus 7 December 2015 22: 15 New
    +1
    Ответьте себе на два вопроса :первый почему Россия не вооружает сирийскую армию,почему мы Россия не "работали и не работаем с курдами",что весьма успешно делают США,не смотря на свои базы в Турции?Кстати коалиция нанесла авиа удар по армии Сирии и опять тишина
  21. Abrekkos
    Abrekkos 7 December 2015 23: 16 New
    +1
    Quote: Fulcrum29
    Abrekkos, ... Have you ever read the literature on radar ...
    РЛС APG-68(V)9 ... дальность её работы по цели типа "истребитель поколения 4+" (ЭПР примерно 1,5 м2) составляет 80 - 85 км.
    А "Хищник" - гораздо более совершенный радиолокационный комплекс, с более высокой мощностью передатчика и площадью апертуры АР. Касаемо предложения:
    "Неужели не понятно, что 110 км - это дальность ракеты Р-27ЭР, да и Р-77 в ППС (при) стратосферном пуске к сотне тоже подтягивается.
    ... RVV-BD or MiG-31BM missiles with R-37 missiles, and you can immediately write off AIM-120D (C-7/8).


    Imagine I have radar and what I have been doing for 20 years.

    Did you read what I wrote and what did you write? Read it again and realize that you gave the APG-68 (V) 9 radar a much more flattering characteristic than me. If you, of course, have been engaged in real radar for at least 5 minutes and not studying the statues on the Internet, then you will understand what I mean.

    Про "Хищник" Вы собственно ничего не сказали кроме такого же газетного штампа как и про APG-68(V)9. Точные характеристики "Хищник" не приведу т.к. видимо в отличии от Вас, мне за это светит от 5 до 10 лет.
    Скажу только то, что широко известно и что закрыло путь этой РЛС и ее прямым потомкам на новые истребители. К сожалению ахилесова пята этого прибора - помехозащищенность и в реальной помеховой обстановке (особенно при наличии хоть какой-то РЭБ) он любезную Вашему сердцу цель с ЭПР 1,5м2 может так и не увидеть. Для воздушного боя в условиях реальной современной войны он не очень то годен, но это не столь важно для бомбардировщика коим в основном и является Су-34. Свои функции "Хищник" на нем выполняет, но ввиду его проблем никуда более его ставить не стали.

    Приведенные Вами характеристики ракет относят не к стратосферному пуску РВВ-АЕ (он и в стратосфере имеет дальность 80-90км по ветру) а к некоторым модификациям ракет с упрощенной головкой самонаведения и увеличенным запасом топлива (Р-27ЭП, Р-27ЭР), которые могут использоваться в экзотических случаях но никак не по истребителями. Хотя Р-27ЭР и на 100км никогда не летала ее дальность около 90. На вооружении РФ они сколько я знаю не стоят а если и стоят то на учениях не применяются (поскольку сервисных и технических запросов по ним нет). Это называется "лежат на вооружении". В СССР они были но очень не много т.к. имеют экзотическую нишу.

    About RVV-DB, you hit the sky with your finger. it is not intended to fight modern fighters at all. The probability of defeating small and highly maneuverable targets like a fighter is low. She, like the MiG-31, is never a tool for gaining air supremacy. So this is not a competitor to AIM-120. This rocket was made for a completely different one. Comparing its range with the AIM-120D is the same as comparing the loading capacity of a bus and a Ferrari.

    The competitor AIM-120 was made in the form of RVV-SD (just a range of ~ 110km), but there are still many problems with it. The military initially after the tests refused to buy it and put in a new research project, but then changed their minds. In the spring, deliveries will begin after some modifications. It will be, with some reservations, an analog of AIM-120C-6. So the rocket comparable AIM-120D is only in the plans so far. Even TTZ and OCD are not on it.

    So all your arguments about the issue of gaining dominance in the air, which I discuss, are irrelevant.

    Такое мое скромное мнение. Вы имеете право иметь и высказывать свое, но Уважаемый Вы можете даже не пытаться "учить меня профессии".

    It hurts the place is not suitable.
    1. igorka357
      igorka357 11 December 2015 17: 54 New
      0
      Hush, hush, less pathos and high self-esteem ... and people will stretch, or else a direct agent of some kind .. ten years for disclosure .. bully
  22. Former battalion commander
    Former battalion commander 7 December 2015 23: 53 New
    -1
    World War III is just around the corner ... Here it is in front of us ... What will the fearful leadership of Russia do if they start to shoot down Russian planes? Fight? Or will they again rub off and strengthen the embargo on tomatoes? I think they will wipe off and go home ... They will close the Bosphorus (already the first swallows have arrived to this recall the challenge of the Russian ambassador to Turkey), and then how to fight? That's just it ... Having too weak a position to get involved in a fight is the height of stupidity, and the Russian leadership can hardly be called sensible ...
  23. Abrekkos
    Abrekkos 7 December 2015 23: 59 New
    +1
    Quote: Kalmar
    Вот только не надо в наивных чукотских мальчиков играть. "
    Потом, данный инцидент с "нарушением" (или реально нарушением) турецкой границы был не первым, и турки еще в начале октября прямым текстом заявляли, что готовы применить силу, если снова кого в своем воздушном пространстве заметят.

    In the end, one must understand that in big politics there is no friendship, there are only interests. And it will be foolish and naive to think that at our expense the Turks will love us for the new NPP until the end of their days. Nothing like this.

    So there was nothing to meddle in this place at this time. First, Turkey had to be persuaded (persuaded, forced) to cooperate, guaranteed (publicly and loudly) the safety of flights of Russian aviation, and only then fly under the nose of the Turkish air defense forces. In the end, Messrs. Lavrov, Churkin and others like them do not just get their salary. But no, they hoped for a chance: they say that the Turks are embroiled, they will not shoot. And take the Turks and not Zassa. So it turned out what happened.


    Actually, this is what you need to tell politicians. But for some reason you addressed the claim to the military.
    It is clear that the Urks have never been friends to us or to anyone. It is clear that in these conditions it is necessary to expect a trick from them.
    It is clear that Urki warned us for a month and a half.
    But the military was given a different attitude. They are friends to us, our Syria, deep. scandals we settled, to act throughout the territory.
    I actually talked about this.
    1. Kalmar
      Kalmar 8 December 2015 09: 52 New
      +1
      Quote: Abrekkos
      But the military was given a different attitude.

      And the military does not have its own head on its shoulders? They do not obey politicians. Rather, they obey only one thing - the supreme commander. Or does it turn out that the GDP itself has gone wrong?
  24. Radikal
    Radikal 8 December 2015 00: 03 New
    +1
    Quote: GUKTU
    А у меня один вопрос: "Почему наше военное руководство послало на задание Су 24 без прикрытия?". Турки готовили провокацию не один день и наши технические средства разведки видели активность турок в районе действий ВКС. Доводы мол типа не ожидали удара в спину, считаю не уместными и преступными. Есть такие понятия как: всесторонне обеспечение боя, оценка противника и т.д.. Почему все это не было учтено??? Просто взяли и преподнесли туркам на блюдечке наш самолет. Надеюсь хоть крейсер МОСКВА догадались прикрыть с моря?

    Вот-вот, мы уже вторую неделю слушаем отовсюду, и на всех уровнях про "удар в спину",хотя непосредственно его получил только экипаж сбитого Су-24, а вот те кто выше (не будем показывать пальцем) реально получили "плевок" в лицо! Что мешало с самого начала, когда создавалась авиагруппа рассчитать силы и средства, необходимые как для нанесения бомбо-штурмовых ударов, так и для их прикрытия? А что мы имели там на самом деле? Четыре Су-30, а о ЗРК дальнего действия вообще речи не шло. И кто решил, что Турция нам друг, союзник и брат?! Мы с ней всю нашу историю воевали, для них наш Крым, да и Измаил (в прошлом тоже наш)- одна незаживающая рана, которая передается образно выражаясь с молоком матери, на генетическом так сказать уровне! А тут нате вам- прямо идиллия. И кто ответит за гибель наших ребят?
  25. Abrekkos
    Abrekkos 8 December 2015 00: 29 New
    +1
    I note that all the same, the R-77 that supplied India and RVV-SD are the essence of completely different products. And the R-77 delivered by India to 110km does not pull. You probably know this too. And what beguiled RVV-SD and RVV-AE is probably yes.

    Quote: CERHJ
    Quote: Abrekkos
    An important technological advantage of the Su-34 is its most powerful airborne radar with PFAR Sh-141 "Predator", which in the air-to-air mode has much greater noise immunity than American radars with a slot antenna array AN / APG-63 and AN / APG -68 (installed on Turkish F-16C and American F-15C at Incirlik airbase), the best range and stability of work on targets with an EPR of 3 m2 (up to 130 km), as well as 2 times greater target channel when using RVV-AE missiles


    Это не моя цитата это цитата из статьи. Я ее как раз и критиковал. В том числе и "кучу" drinks


    Quote: CERHJ
    All in a bunch! AN / APG-63 (v) 3 radar It’s on the modernized F-15. The USA only has it. Moreover, this AFAR radar and compare with it in range, noise immunity and channelity is just ridiculous. Yes, and these radars are only 200 pcs per Needles.

    And I mean the same thing.
    Especially about the channel APG-68 (V) 9 and Sh-141 is ridiculous. drinks

    Quote: CERHJ
    Actually, this is an old radar with an average detection of 60 km depending on the modification and operating mode (upper or lower hemisphere, after or after), and the detection data that you provide corresponds to the characteristics of the new


    Yes, the radar is old but what are you saying? Detecting what at a distance of 60 km? With what probability? A bomber with a probability of 0,5 he discovers 300 km. Then you just said nothing. What for?

    I gave specific characteristics that take place in this version of the APG-68 (V) 9. You probably meant older versions of the APG-68, I don’t remember their characteristics because when I studied they were no longer relevant for us.
  26. Abrekkos
    Abrekkos 8 December 2015 01: 11 New
    +1
    Quote: CERHJ
    Move on-
    Quote: Abrekkos
    So those who know how to count and not just read and write AN / APG-68 (V) 9 is considered more like an analogue of our most advanced Irbis radar mounted on the Su-35
    Well, everything is clear here. The person simply does not understand. What Irbis PFAR is more likely to be compared with AN / APG-63, we will assume. What is confused with the indices.


    I understand the differences between different radar designs for 30 years, and even more than that. wink Also in junior classes I was taught that it is important not to have a headlamp, AFAR, etc. But it is important what real characteristics are achieved with the product. It is possible to make AFAR worse than PFAR and further in all combinations. By the way, with AFAR we have just big problems.
    But I talked about the real combat properties achieved in a particular product, how they are achieved is not important. Often, a debugged product made using old technology is superior to innovative development. According to its real characteristics, AN / APG-68 (V) 9 is close to Irbis. Maybe I did not correctly express my thought.
    The same thing that they are different inside is probably even read on Wikipedia.
    But we are not discussing the development of radars here, but the possibilities of combat use. So on them they are just close despite the difference in age and internal structure.

    Не буду тут ерничать по поводу Вашего предложения сравнить Ирбис с APG-63. Вы если на эту тему что-то знаете то наверное сами понимаете, что я мог бы написать. Напомню только про Ваш оборот "Все в кучу" из Вашего прошлого поста. wink
    Although maybe you just joked so funny? laughing Yes, and I do not want to lose time out of the blue. It is clear what you meant.

    Quote: CERHJ
    In Turkey, there have never been AMRAAMS with the D index. The USA, Oman, Saudi Arabia have them. They have AFAR radars mainly. It makes no sense to use an expensive missile at a range that cannot be detected by conventional radars.


    Читайте что я писал "имеющиеся в распоряжении Турции и противостоящих нам сил". У НАТО AIM-120D есть оно то нам и противостоит. С AN/APG-68(V)9 она совместима. Передать ее Турции это вообще не вопрос. Просто обязаны если просят.
    The capabilities of AN / APG-68 (V) 9 (when confronted with the Su-30, 34 ...) for the AIM-120D are quite enough.

    Although, in principle, you are right. Of course, for confrontation with our aircraft, the Turks have quite enough AIM-120C-7 they have. About AIM-120D I went too far.
  27. Killj
    Killj 8 December 2015 02: 27 New
    +2
    with the most powerful Russian Armed Forces in the World

    You can not read further, is it issued in advance? Can I take off my pink glasses?
    In Syria, there is an unhurried pulling of blankets; there is not a fight against terrorism, but a continuous politeness from all sides.
  28. Abrekkos
    Abrekkos 8 December 2015 12: 09 New
    +1
    Quote: KillJ
    You can not read further, is it issued in advance? Can I take off my pink glasses?
    In Syria, there is an unhurried pulling of blankets; there is not a fight against terrorism, but a continuous politeness from all sides.


    Well, I don’t know that. I was there only when it all started and on purely technical issues. Nobody dedicated me to politics. And the Syrian company is a purely geopolitical topic.

    Я лично думаю, что когда главком то ему видать кто-то посоветовал. Провел исследование всесторонне изучил, оценил, взвесил и обосновал. А уж главком "на основании" принял решение как предложили или наоборот. Все решения на самом верху очень даже готовятся. Тема по Сирии обсасывалась давно было все вплоть до исследование на месте и т.п. изучали очень подробно по крайней мере с технической точки зрения а военные зря денег не тратят - только по приказу.
  29. Seneca
    Seneca 9 December 2015 12: 50 New
    0
    Судя по этой статье ситуация усложняется..положение наших ВС в Сирии и в регионе ухудшается..Не пора ли оттуда свалить..ибо если случится вооружённый конфликт..мы изначально в проигрышном положении.А надеятся что не посмеют они обострять ситуацию..мол "у нас же тополя и ясени"-зассут.А вот если не зассут..что тогда......