Military Review

Erdogan as a favorite politician sofa strategists

62
Erdogan as a favorite politician sofa strategists



Today I would like to discuss this wonderful Turkish politician - Recep Erdogan. Everyone is well aware of this bright, dynamic, nervous president. The very expression of his face as if says: "Now I will take care of you and you will not like it." Someone, and Erdogan is difficult to blame for the lack of charisma and will. A sort of Nietzschean "man on a horse." Politicians are often accused of duplicity, verbosity, indecision, inconsistency, even cowardice! Anyone, but not Recep Erdogan. This is a man who is not afraid of anyone: neither America, nor Russia, nor Israel, nor the Arabs. Brave man. And most importantly: he is not afraid to talk about it openly, which is perhaps a curiosity for politicians.

To appreciate the courage of this man and the janissary, it is enough to estimate the level of turretlessness and adventurism shown by him at the start of the “Syrian campaign”. Consider: Turkey has at that time gigantic problems with the Kurds (by the way, a very militant people, not Ukrainians at all) in Turkey itself and even greater problems with them in Iraqi Kurdistan. Once again, Kurds are on the order of 40 millions, of which in Turkey are on the order of 15 millions. In Iraq, the order of 6 millions. People fighting, hot, energetic. Feel what smells? The largest nation in the world, not having its own statehood. And as already noted, the Kurds are not Ukrainians at all - weapon able to hold in their hands. This is not to offend the inhabitants of Lviv, just an interesting fact. Imagine 40 for millions of people deprived of statehood, but ready to fight for it with their teeth. Kurds are fighting even women. And much better than the "cyborg." A terrible thing, I myself would be scared.



So, the whole of Turkey and Recep our Erdogan had a problem. And a huge problem, almost unsolvable problem. Malignant political hemorrhoids (incorrectly surgically, but it sounds!). You know, in order to better understand one or another politician and his decisions, it’s best to mentally move to the very country where he comes from. Just imagine that you are “playing for Turkey”, imagine that the Kurdish problem is your problem. Feel this moment. I hope it became clearer? Kurds are not Turks and Kurds are hungry for “independence”. So, what is interesting: "all progressive humanity" recognizes the right of the Ukrainian people to self-determination. Nobody wants to recognize the same right of the Kurdish people.

That is, there are no “general principles”, “universal values” and “international law”. Or rather, almost none. A trader in the market, when you are weighed, also experiences “remnants of remorse of remnants of conscience”. But this article is not about the principles of Adam Sita in the activities of small traders of vegetables and fruits. This article is about the achievements of Recep Tayyip Erdogan in the political field of the struggle for the unity of the nation. So, you can look at the Kurdish problem from two opposite directions. First: there are Syria, Turkey, Iraq and Iran - independent, sovereign states with generally recognized borders. And they, too, respect each other, support and keep the Kurdish problem “within themselves”. Lepot From the selfish point of view, any prime minister of Turkey is an ideal option. There is a second option: kings and cabbage, or rather oil and dictators. This option implies: invasion, overthrow, ferment ... And the uprising of the broad masses of the working Kurdish population, oppressed by the Turkish bourgeoisie (practically Ulyanov).



What option would you choose in the place of the Turkish political elite? Naturally, there is no choice for the Turkish patriot (this is not irony), nor can there be. You need to be friends with Saddam, and you need to be friends with Khomeini, and you need to be friends with Assad. Against the Kurds, of course. If you, of course, want to preserve the territorial integrity of the state. As we know, the Turkish political elites agreed to Erdogan’s rise to power just before the invasion of Iraq and the overthrow of Hussein. After that, a power vacuum arose in Iraq, and Iraqi Kurdistan became free. De facto free. Bad Saddam brutally suppressed free Kurds, even poisoned with German gas. Good Americans hang bad Saddam by the neck. And began the "poems". Now few people remember that Saddam's Iraq was quite a secular, civilized state. Even your satellite launched. And Iraq moved towards even greater secularism, civilization and technical progress.

Most importantly, Iraq under Saddam is a very strong and fully centralized state. No Al Qaeda and no "free Kurds." But Turkey did not prevent the overthrow of the "dictator". Moreover, it actively contributed to the defeat of Iraq, the result was not long in coming: the last ten years (that is, under Erdogan!), The Turkish army has been actively fighting Iraqi Kurds. Smart people, explain what is the benefit for the Turkish state? And most importantly: the action and its result is not separated in time. You can't say: “But who could have known!” The implications for Turkey were obvious from the very beginning of the adventure in Iraq. And, nevertheless, the decision was made. Yes, Turkey did not allow a second front to be opened, but this is rather a tactical consideration, a demonstration of independence from the United States and “offenses” for the lack of gratitude for the help in the first anti-Iraq campaign.

As a result, the Kurds got a piece of independence, enough to start their “big game”. But Erdogan found few of these problems. Next - Syria, formerly part of the Ottoman Empire. Iraq, by the way, also entered. And Western “partners” also decided to “democratize” it. On top of the banquet, the Kurds also live there. As it is known, “one should not try to explain with malicious intent what is explained by ordinary stupidity”. Without solving the problem of the Iraqi Kurds (it has no solution), Erdogan climbed into Syria. Yes, of course, the Turkish army did not invade Syria (large forces). But, as everyone is well aware, the military operation of the “opposition” against the “Assad regime” was impossible without direct Turkish support.

Someone had to do the dirty work, and Recep did not hesitate to do it. I like this man! He was not afraid of anything. Of course, I wouldn’t go reconnaissance with him, but I was not afraid to send such a frame to reconnaissance. Better in reconnaissance. That's when all this ugliness began (by the way, I repent, I thought that Assad would lose much as before), and so, it seemed to me a very, very wonderful and surprising Turkey’s readiness to accept thousands of “Allah’s warriors” on its land. It does not happen. In normal countries, such people are not accepted at all, even in handcuffs. It is like taking a load of radioactive waste. It is illogical and wrong. But he allowed them to turn around in their territory - this is something.

After all, even if everything went according to plan, problems with those very "fighters" could not be avoided. Sooner or later. They train in Turkey, make useful contacts there, make connections. By and large, they become a factor in intra-Turkish politics. Serious guys with guns and ties at the top. And with full immunity and extraterritoriality. How can you not be such? Helpful people. And there are a lot of them - thousands and thousands ... And all with “trunks”. It seems to me that only an adventurer with the very biggest letter can do this. To use terrorists, you have to be a mega dictator and keep them all behind barbed wire, all other options are deadly. Yes, the Turkish army is the largest in the region and very well prepared, yes, the security services of Turkey also work. But the presence in the "free access" of thousands of professional thugs raises the risk to an unacceptable level. After all, they can easily be used in domestic political games.



As a result of Erdogan’s actions, his beloved Turkey did not become a new Ottoman empire, as he had planned, but an “open system”, a courtyard for terrorists. According to his idea, the Islamists were supposed to "drench" Assad and the Kurds. To some extent this is how it turned out, but the terrorists are like a steppe fire, try to control them. They walk across the border to and fro with weapons, rob, blow up, kill, rape. And so, in Syria, they are nasty-pregadky terrorists, and in Turkey they are white and fluffy “freedom fighters”. But this does not happen. Even a person as distant as possible from understanding the activities of the special services will suspect that something is wrong. Yes, if the “Assad regime” collapsed after a year and a half, particular problems could have been avoided (possibly). But the “redhead” did not collapse, the war dragged on, and Turkey began to increase security problems. The safety factor of any state system is very, very limited. It's sad, but true. And you should not be tempted by the fate and ultimate strength of your state. And Turkey, in fact, was drawn into a protracted war on its borders, and this in no way can strengthen its system. And the end-edge of that war is not visible. I agree, Assad is very bad, but Erdogan is not much easier - "he summoned forces into this world that he cannot control."



And the operation of the Russian videoconferencing system became for him a “blow in the gut”. When a shy hope arose that in the fourth year of the war, Assad could be overthrown ... “Putin falcons” soared into the sky over Syria. I don’t think that someone in the Kremlin was counting on a resounding success - the Assad army was pretty exhausted and drained of blood at that time, but the situation changed dramatically in terms of the impossibility of a quick victory for the “opposition”. And for Erdogan, this was the last chance to demonstrate “success” in foreign policy. Although it is very difficult to understand what would give Turkey the education in Syria of a “gray zone” of terrorism and statelessness. Erdogan thought that he would be given this territory "for good behavior"? Is he a child? Who to whom and when did these royal gifts? And even with all the desire of the West, it would be impossible to officially or semiofficially “give” Syria to Erdogan. And brazenly climb into a boiling cauldron with terrorists "on bird rights" is already "beyond good and evil." Now there are rumors that Turkey has plans to “chop off” a piece of the border Syrian territory under the pretext of fighting ISIS. Brilliant move! Frankly speaking - in Ukrainian!

Once again, we will honestly try to understand Erdogan's point of view: what could be his interest in the Syrian adventure, what could be the benefit, what return did he plan to get? Syria was not an enemy or even a serious rival for Turkey, moreover, Erdogan was defiantly friendly with Assad. Today it is hard to believe, but it was so.




It is clear that Erdogan has much more complete and accurate information on the issues of Syrian politics than all leisure commentators, however, there are no such outright miracles: no one sees advantages for Turkey, but they exist. All the options for the development of the Syrian conflict, which are possible / were possible, carry a mortal danger for the homeland of Erdogan. When a large ship sinks, you can be sucked behind it when the state dies - the consequences for the neighbors can be catastrophic (they can just be bad). If Erdogan’s Turkey was something like Kaiser Germany, then it might have been worth the risk, but Erdogan didn’t have a superpowerful economy, no “great power” status, no mega fleet, no best industry in Europe, or national unity. Here are constantly heard threats - Erdogan will send the Turkish army to Syria. Terrible threats, but, firstly, the best moment has long been missed, secondly, well, there will be “Erdogan's guys” in the middle of burning Syria ... and what will it give? Will the iron order immediately come? Terrorists and asadovtsy scatter?

If Asad survives and keeps himself in power, he is Erdogan's worst enemy, and an enemy who will stop at nothing. It is almost impossible to negotiate with him to Erdogan, “win” in Syria too. The most unpleasant thing is that the EU, the USA and the Russian Federation do not directly border with Syria. And this is a plus. And Erdogan turned his country into a “front-line zone”, and completely voluntarily. And he has millions of Syrian refugees and thousands of terrorists "registered". If you think that he has an excellent relationship with Obama, then you are mistaken - he quarreled with him. As with Israel, as with Russia. A person loudly and clearly says everything that he thinks about his opponents, out loud, “on camera”. Couch experts about this usually only dream. And most importantly, he is not afraid to make the appropriate decisions. Everything is good and everything is wonderful, but the results of this policy are very, very sad for Turkey.

I added an article to this place and thought: “what should he do next?”. Often there are reproaches (fair) that the author denotes a problem, but does not suggest solutions. And I postponed the article until better times and began to look for “solutions” for Turkey. But Recep our Erdogan showed that he does not sew along a bastard and that the distance between him and the “Internet discourse” is of enormous size. And he did what everyone in NATO wanted, but they were afraid to do. He attacked Putin's regime, attacked him in the air. And here I really understood the poverty of my analytical apparatus. We pick up a “rasp”, and a person at the top of power sees better and farther than any of us. Because, from the point of view of an ordinary person, as a result of such an action, Erdogan’s position became simply catastrophic. Bulgaria, Greece, Cyprus, Armenia, Kurds ... It's not all friends of Turkey. To varying degrees, but not friends. Turkey cheekily occupies the north of Cyprus, and it has gotten away with it so far. And so, 1 December Lavrov in Cyprus. He discusses various problems with the Greek Cypriots, with the Turks from Cyprus does not discuss. And Lavrov’s visit to Turkey was canceled. Funny.

Even more funny, in the West, Erdogan was not actually supported in his insane adventure. And the point is not that they love Russia very much, the fact is that they do not like to solve other people's problems at their own expense. Erdogan played with his "candle factory" on the basis of oil LIH. He was seriously let down by a sort of “parochialism” - for some reason he decided that the whole Middle Eastern policy would revolve around the commercial interests of his family. And when the Russian bombers began to destroy the columns with "his" oil, he came to a wild rage. And made a big mistake. However, he was still many hours after the destruction of the "drying" was convinced that nothing terrible happened. And only through 7-8 hours (according to Peskov) did he call Putin. But it was too late. But understand: he, too, can no longer retreat - the Turkish special mentality. Apologizing publicly, he will show "weakness." In general - a dead end.



As for the fact that Russia has lost a face in this situation without striking back, the statement is rather controversial - there was a typical provocation. And the provocateur usually calculates everything so as to force you into rash actions in a situation that is unfavorable to you. “Behave” this is rather strange: after the attack, Turkey immediately landed all the fighters on the airfields and ran to complain to NATO and the UN. In fact, the “clever” Erdogan, acting solely in his own interests, seriously set up his people and his country. Typically Eastern approach, when the ruler does not see the difference between "his coat and the state." Recep for some reason absolutely did not take into account the situation that developed after the terrorist attacks in Paris. I say: own candle factory in the foreground, geopolitics - something distant and abstract. But we are all no better off. This is the role of “personality in stories". Recep Erdogan is just a living example of how a politician should not behave. Although extras like these things, until a certain point. And yes, he was also a friend of Gaddafi.

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  1. The black
    The black 8 December 2015 13: 12 New
    16
    Erdogan is a waged card of American politics. An imminent collapse awaits him. Having played on his incontinence, the Americans very technically set him up (or he himself set up) and now they will merge him safely.
    1. Vend
      Vend 8 December 2015 13: 25 New
      +6
      This is a man who is not afraid of anyone: neither America, nor Russia, nor Israel, nor the Arabs.
      When courage borders on inadequacy, it is no longer courage, but recklessness or shortsightedness. As life has shown, for every brave Turk there is a leash. And the United States threw him. If Erdogan was smarter, he would disown the downed plane and blame the United States. Thought to beat Putin, but that did not grow together.
      1. Sasha 19871987
        Sasha 19871987 8 December 2015 13: 28 New
        +3
        Erdogan has already regretted his deed a thousand times ... for the overseas owners will give it anyway, just like the guys from Qatar will send over time, like waste material ...
        1. Zoldat_A
          Zoldat_A 8 December 2015 13: 53 New
          +8
          Quote: Sasha 19871987
          for overseas masters will betray him anywaylike the guys from qatar

          But haven’t they passed yet when he ran on the tsarl to give him a report, and they said to him: "I’ve gotten into it myself and deal with the Russians. We are the eighths on the side"?

          I would take a look at a history textbook, read it before ordering our "Drying". Let liberal American say anything to me, but None of the oral, and, even more so, secret agreements with the West have not yet been fulfilled by that West.. They always played by their own rules, which they themselves invented and invented. Georgia thrown in 2008? And those idiots also hoped that now America and NATO would hit Russia with all the nuclear bombs. Petya in Kuev cannot persuade for two years. And she won’t be able to. I’m not saying how Hunchback was bred with the Warsaw Pact ... Like the last sucker at the fair.

          And now here they showed the candy to the Janissary, he stood on his hind legs, but they didn’t give the candy ...
          1. Tatyana
            Tatyana 8 December 2015 14: 37 New
            +1
            Great article! I completely share the opinion of the author!
            Pleased with the style of presentation and especially some expressions about Erdogan! For example.
            To appreciate courage this person and Janissaries, just evaluate the level recklessness and adventurismmanifested by him at the beginning of the "Syrian campaign."

            As a result of Erdogan’s actions, his beloved Turkey has evolved not into the new Ottoman Empire as he planned, but into the "open system", the entrance yard for terrorists.

            A typical eastern approach, when the ruler does not see the difference between "his coat and state."

            Erdogan thought that they would give him this territory “for good behavior”? Is he a child? Who to whom and when made such royal gifts?
        2. meriem1
          meriem1 8 December 2015 19: 21 New
          0
          Quote: Sasha 19871987
          Erdogan has already regretted his deed a thousand times ... for the overseas owners will give it anyway, just like the guys from Qatar will send over time, like waste material ...


          So already in the media. - "The pilots of the air forces of the states did not receive an order to protect the airspace of Turkey ..." On those from under the bed. And the Kurds will be remembered again !!!
      2. Zoldat_A
        Zoldat_A 8 December 2015 13: 56 New
        +2
        Quote: Wend
        Make Erdogan Smarter, he would disown the downed plane and blame the United States.

        If he was smarter, he would not give the order to catch and shoot down our plane. GDP clearly said that we were ready not to notice much for good relations with Turkey. Yes, I didn’t ask ... Now all the questions to Allah - with what Erdogan so sinned that Allah took away his mind ...
        1. Vend
          Vend 8 December 2015 14: 07 New
          +1
          Quote: Zoldat_A
          Quote: Wend
          Make Erdogan Smarter, he would disown the downed plane and blame the United States.

          If he was smarter, he would not give the order to catch and shoot down our plane. GDP clearly said that we were ready not to notice much for good relations with Turkey. Yes, I didn’t ask ... Now all the questions to Allah - with what Erdogan so sinned that Allah took away his mind ...

          Do not drag Allah here. It’s just that the United States is showing good compromising evidence. They took Zrdogan by the ass, this is the most favorite and expensive place among mattresses, and forced to dance to his tune.
          1. mart-kot
            mart-kot 8 December 2015 14: 58 New
            +2
            but vague doubts torment me, at least for the F-16 pilot. There is an option that the case was done by star-striped, and hid behind the Turks (at first having promised them NATO support - if that. And then brazenly threw it. Although I do not insist, purely IMHO, but agree that such a stupid move is not at all beneficial for Turkey, but for the USA .Turkey, the Russian Federation - to split up at different angles of the ring, create tension between them. Freeze joint Turkish-Russian projects for a while (Russian revenues are reduced, the construction of the gas pipeline stops, Turkey incurs losses and becomes financially dependent.) Etc. etc. .p. In addition, in the region, there is less of a US rival, do what you want.
          2. Starley from the south
            Starley from the south 8 December 2015 18: 49 New
            0
            Quote: Wend
            the United States shows good compromising evidence on him.

            Too Erdogan acts independently of the mattresses, there is no compromising on him. The author correctly noted that Erdogan is a completely reckless politician; smart, cunning and crazy! Just like the Fuhrer in Germany.
      3. eplewke
        eplewke 8 December 2015 17: 47 New
        0
        Nobody will merge Erdogan. One statement by Stoltenberg is worth it. So do not rely on it. The main NATO ally in the BV West is not a priori profitable. Well, the fact that Erdopupsik messed up without the knowledge of the United States is a fact to the campaign. And you have to get out yourself. Turks are sorry to be honest, for their hysterical president.
    2. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 8 December 2015 13: 27 New
      +1
      Here is such a role of “personality in history”. Recep Erdogan - it's just living example of how a politician should not behave.
      I hope soon we will hear about another example, not very lively, or not at all alive ...
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. Lukich
      Lukich 8 December 2015 13: 48 New
      +3
      Quote: Black
      Erdogan is a waged card of American politics. Imminent collapse awaits him

      but it’s not necessary without the knowledge of sash against Russia to tail the tail. sabakashvili tried and now at the bucket errands. now let Erdogan look for a place of "measure" in a provincial town in the outskirts
    5. donavi49
      donavi49 8 December 2015 13: 50 New
      +6
      He has been drained many times, but he is holding on, survived three or four major Maidan, even threatening Obama to drive the Americans out of Ijilik, and take his equipment and weapons. He quarreled tightly with Israel, right up to the sending of ships and the mutual aiming of guns, with Egypt since he stood for the Muslim Brotherhood. And at the same time, he is still at the post.

      It’s not worth it, it’s so easy to write it off.
      1. Vend
        Vend 8 December 2015 14: 08 New
        0
        Quote: donavi49
        He has been drained many times, but he is holding on, survived three or four major Maidan, even threatening Obama to drive the Americans out of Ijilik, and take his equipment and weapons. He quarreled tightly with Israel, right up to the sending of ships and the mutual aiming of guns, with Egypt since he stood for the Muslim Brotherhood. And at the same time, he is still at the post.

        It’s not worth it, it’s so easy to write it off.

        And where in these actions was the mind cluttered? As a quarrelsome woman in the bazaar, he arranged for dates because of dates.
        1. voyaka uh
          voyaka uh 8 December 2015 14: 48 New
          +3
          "And where is the mind cluttered in these actions?" /////

          This is the reason for rating - popularity in the eyes of its electorate.
          From the side - adventure after adventure, and the election wins for
          by election.
          Although we must pay tribute to him - with the economy of Turkey is relative
          order. He does not nightmare the private sector; he develops trade widely
          with everyone in a row.
          1. Andrey Yuryevich
            Andrey Yuryevich 8 December 2015 17: 20 New
            0
            it is what it is... hi
      2. Sirocco
        Sirocco 8 December 2015 14: 12 New
        +1
        Quote: donavi49
        He’s been drained many times, but he’s holding on,

        He is staying there just for the same reason that Poroshenko is in power in Kiev. The fact that he claims does not mean that he thinks about it, and will fulfill what was stated. In my opinion, he is still on a short leash with the United States, and was before that, like his partners in Daesh Qatar, CA, and other partners. They are by no means independent. This is not necessary to prove.
  2. DOMINO100
    DOMINO100 8 December 2015 13: 13 New
    +3
    and the dude in the photo between Assad and Erdogan is clearly jealous of Assad))) and then where Gaddafi is, he with a beard and hair fell out of emotions, it is clear that Erdogan has something wrong with orientation)))
  3. 76SSSR
    76SSSR 8 December 2015 13: 15 New
    +1
    Did not read the article. What for? For me, Erdogan is a vile pig with a tarnished reputation and without honor. Let them write bad things about him, let them write good things - this does not change anything.
  4. dchegrinec
    dchegrinec 8 December 2015 13: 17 New
    +1
    It is necessary to discuss those who deserve it! These are the people you can strive for! But they do not discuss terrorists, they are destroyed and put into oblivion! Erdogan is essentially a "cultural" terrorist in a jacket and shaved! And inside he has the same goals and ideas as those devils who chase each other through deserts.
  5. Vladimirets
    Vladimirets 8 December 2015 13: 18 New
    +1
    The article is interesting, only the author said so: what should Erdoогan do? smile
  6. Altona
    Altona 8 December 2015 13: 19 New
    +8
    The article began interestingly, but the topic of Recep Erdogan is not fully disclosed. We are waiting for new news from Turkey ...
    1. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 8 December 2015 17: 21 New
      +2
      Quote: Altona
      The article began interestingly, but the topic of Recep Erdogan is not fully disclosed. We are waiting for new news from Turkey ...

      is it a warrior of Recep, or cho? what
      1. Altona
        Altona 8 December 2015 19: 02 New
        0
        Quote: Andrew Y.
        is it a warrior of Recep, or cho?

        --------------------
        This is a warrior who qualifies the writer of the article, and of us along the way, couch analysts ... laughing

        PS I try to diversify my comments with pictures, since I started commenting on Twitter, so the comment format is the same. So that people do not get bored. We are at the front of a propaganda war. True, many did not understand, they still play in "objectivity."

        PPS In my warrior, the specialty is "telephone exchange telephone operator", although I have a VUS-427 "ZAS-telephone mechanic". But that would be nothing, my former director generally has a rare specialty “commander of a cruise missile department” (he served in the Crimea, by the way, serving naval aviation). When you come on a demobilization to your military registration and enlistment office to register, the military commissar writes all kinds of garbage to the military ... laughing
  7. V.ic
    V.ic 8 December 2015 13: 20 New
    +2
    As for wool, a good joke, probably the other day the author of the "Caucasian Captive" was revising. The description of the Ottoman stump is complete. Turk yong and in Africa, Turks!
  8. Hello
    Hello 8 December 2015 13: 21 New
    10
    Moreover, it actively contributed to the defeat of Iraq, the result was not long in coming: for the last ten years (that is, under Erdogan!), The Turkish army has been actively fighting the Iraqi Kurds.

    Apparently the author is not aware of the close contacts of the Barzani family with the Turks? What kind of war against Iraqi Kurds is it if the barzanists periodically help the Turks to cut the PKK, and the PKK periodically joyfully cut the barzanists. Apparently for some people, the secret is that the Turks are fighting with the PKK and their Syrian tribesmen, not with the Peshmerga and not with the Iranian Kurds. negative
    1. Olezhek
      8 December 2015 13: 39 New
      +6
      Apparently the author is not aware of the close contacts of the Barzani family.


      Alas, the author is not even introduced to the glorious family of Barzani ...
      1. afdjhbn67
        afdjhbn67 8 December 2015 14: 17 New
        +4
        Quote: Olezhek
        Alas, the author is not even introduced to the glorious family of Barzani ...

        Oleg grows from article to article, the beginning, even the first third is one hundred percent successful ..
    2. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 8 December 2015 17: 23 New
      +1
      Quote: Hello
      Apparently the author is not aware of the close contacts of the Barzani family with the Turks? What kind of war against Iraqi Kurds is it if the barzanists periodically help the Turks to cut the PKK, and the PKK periodically joyfully cut the barzanists.

      Ilyukha, East - a delicate matter ... - remember? wink
      1. Hello
        Hello 8 December 2015 22: 27 New
        +1
        Quote: Andrew Y.
        Ilyukha, East - a delicate matter ... - remember?

        That's for sure, without half a liter you can’t figure it out. Although you are not as simple as you seem wink Somehow I tried to explain the difference between the Belarusians Russian and Ukrainians to a Jew from Morocco and failed, he listened to me and said that everyone who lived in the USSR was Russian and that he shouldn’t soar his brain. wink
    3. Kyrgyz
      Kyrgyz 8 December 2015 18: 24 New
      +2
      Quote: Hello
      Moreover, it actively contributed to the defeat of Iraq, the result was not long in coming: for the last ten years (that is, under Erdogan!), The Turkish army has been actively fighting the Iraqi Kurds.

      Apparently the author is not aware of the close contacts of the Barzani family with the Turks? What kind of war against Iraqi Kurds is it if the barzanists periodically help the Turks to cut the PKK, and the PKK periodically joyfully cut the barzanists. Apparently for some people, the secret is that the Turks are fighting with the PKK and their Syrian tribesmen, not with the Peshmerga and not with the Iranian Kurds. negative

      The author believes that the Kurds are one, but if they were one, the state they would have already made for themselves, after mentioning the war of the Turks with Iraqi Kurds, the analyst turns into reflection.
      1. Olezhek
        8 December 2015 18: 48 New
        0
        after the mention of the Turks' war with Iraqi Kurds, the analyst turns to thinking.


        At least 55 of Kurdish rebels were killed when Turkish military aircraft bombarded the camps of the Kurdistan Workers' Party (PKK) in northern Iraq, sources said on Saturday. The shelling occurred against the background of how Ankara does not show any signs of weakening strikes against the rebels on the eve of the November 1 elections.

        The aircraft took off from the base in Diyarbakir, in south-eastern Turkey, and then returned without damage, sources said.

        The Kurdish southeast of Turkey suffered the most, after almost daily waves of deadly struggle between the PKK and the Turkish security forces.


        Something like this...
        This is generally a long history and widely known ...
        1. Hello
          Hello 8 December 2015 22: 22 New
          0
          Quote: Olezhek
          Something like this...
          This is generally a long history and widely known ...

          You understand the PKK base, oddly enough, it is located in Iraqi Kurdistan, but PKK adherents for most Iraqi Kurds are marginalized and traitors, similarly to the barzanists in Syrian and Turkish Kurdistan. But the Turks are fighting on the PKK in Iraq does not mean that they are fighting with a peshmerga rather vice versa hi
          While the Turzan family in power, the Turks will not touch them, they are an excellent counterweight to the ideology of the PKK. Something like this I understand
          1. Olezhek
            9 December 2015 08: 27 New
            0
            You understand the base of the PKK, oddly enough, is in Iraqi Kurdistan, but the PKK followers for most Iraqi Kurds are marginal


            And I have never claimed that the Kurds are united and subject to a single leadership. I wondered the scale of the problem. And who is marginal to whom - a separate question
  9. LEVIAFAN
    LEVIAFAN 8 December 2015 13: 24 New
    +3
    I like this man! - I read exactly to these words. the enemy is the enemy. on it is the blood of our soldiers. Hitler conquered Europe. and now what? write i like this hitler? IMHO. the article is good, analytical, but as they say: "I don’t like this man!"
    1. Olezhek
      8 December 2015 13: 37 New
      +4
      Hitler conquered Europe. so what now?


      About Hitler, I will have the next article ... So you just read my thoughts. belay
      1. Andrey Yuryevich
        Andrey Yuryevich 8 December 2015 17: 25 New
        0
        Quote: Olezhek
        thoughts.

        like it or not ??? decide already. I do not like the words ... sarcasm, I understand, internally against ...
    2. Mareman Vasilich
      Mareman Vasilich 8 December 2015 14: 11 New
      +3
      It was irony, sarcasm, and pronounced.
      1. afdjhbn67
        afdjhbn67 8 December 2015 15: 12 New
        0
        Quote: Mareman Vasilich
        It was irony, sarcasm, and pronounced.

        It was clear that it was necessary in this vein to withstand the last paragraphs, the bomb would be ...
    3. The comment was deleted.
    4. Weyland
      Weyland 8 December 2015 19: 47 New
      0
      Quote: LEVIAFAN
      but as they say: "I don’t like this man!"


      But I always like if my enemy turns out to be an impassable fool! This greatly facilitates the task of neutralizing it ... wink

      By the way, about the comparison with Hitler: Essentially, Stalin did not like him at all - but Stalin did not give sanctions for his destruction (which was quite real), because reasonably suspected that his potential successors, our "faithful" allies, could make a separate peace.
  10. Andrey_K
    Andrey_K 8 December 2015 13: 35 New
    +3
    Erdogan once made a very smart move: he concluded a pact with Barzani, and it seems that Turkey had good prospects: peace within the country and influence in Iraq and Syria ...
    Well, then he “corrected” everything as it was - again quarreled with the Kurds, and without special necessity.
  11. Riv
    Riv 8 December 2015 13: 36 New
    +3
    The author here is not quite right. Not Erdogan was friends with Gaddafi, but Gaddafi with Erdogan. But in time he did not stop making friends and ended badly. But Assad managed to stop being friends and is still alive.

    But this is all the little things. Erdogan really drove himself into a corner. In the United States, options are likely to be feverishly calculated right up to the open conflict between Turkey and Russia. If Erdogan is considered uncomfortable ... well, it will be like with Gaddafi. And here is the problem: the chance of coming to power of just extremists is very great, as in Ukraine. Here are just Poroshenko and Yatsenyuk - obedient sixes, and the Turks - they are different ...

    I wonder what they think on this topic in Israel? Here would be their political scientists to listen.
    1. Vladimirets
      Vladimirets 8 December 2015 13: 49 New
      0
      Quote: Riv
      up to an open conflict between Turkey and Russia.

      If with conventional weapons, then for the United States this seems to me to be the best option.
      Quote: Riv
      I wonder what they think on this topic in Israel?

      Probably nothing, they are far from Turkey.
      1. Bluesman
        Bluesman 8 December 2015 13: 55 New
        0
        Quote: Vladimirets
        Probably nothing, they are far from Turkey.

        far or not, but the Israelis screwed up the “flotilla of freedom”.
    2. Andrey Yuryevich
      Andrey Yuryevich 8 December 2015 17: 26 New
      +1
      Quote: Riv
      The author here is not quite right. Not Erdogan was friends with Gaddafi, but Gaddafi with Erdogan
      wrong ... no one, not friends, no one, no one.
      1. Riv
        Riv 8 December 2015 17: 30 New
        0
        Did they have love?
  12. Eulogius
    Eulogius 8 December 2015 13: 37 New
    +1
    It is interesting now (in the long run) to calculate and suggest options: how the Allies will "leave" or "how to merge" Erdogan and to what extent Russia will have a hand here.
    As the saying goes: "Bet, gentlemen!".
    1. clidon
      clidon 8 December 2015 16: 15 New
      0
      My forecast is this: In 2019, there will be re-election of the president in Turkey and Erdogan will win again.
      1. Bluesman
        Bluesman 8 December 2015 17: 22 New
        +1
        Quote: clidon
        My forecast is this: In 2019, there will be re-election of the president in Turkey and Erdogan will win again.

        and what? quite. The situation, by the way, is mirrored by ours.
  13. Quager
    Quager 8 December 2015 13: 39 New
    +2
    I think this Turk will spoil our blood.
  14. Bluesman
    Bluesman 8 December 2015 13: 41 New
    +3
    Imagine 40 million people, deprived of statehood, but ready to fight for it with their teeth.

    About the teeth, of course, the author got excited. Kurds do not think of any single Kurdistan. Moreover, the Iraqi Kurds do not consider themselves Vasya Vasi with the Turks and especially the PKK as “their own”.
    1. Olezhek
      8 December 2015 13: 52 New
      +2
      Kurds do not think of any united Kurdistan.


      Excuse me, are you a Kurd?
      But it seems to me that Russians can say for Russians, for Poland, Polish people ...
      And what does the old woman Merkel want? The chort itself does not know. request
      1. Bluesman
        Bluesman 8 December 2015 14: 31 New
        0
        Quote: Olezhek
        Excuse me, are you a Kurd?

        no. But with your approach, it is better to consider only local issues. Type - "Acetophilous kefir - to acetophilam !!". And, by the way, the same Kurdistan.ru uses the toponym "Kurdistan" only to indicate Iraqi autonomy.
      2. Kyrgyz
        Kyrgyz 8 December 2015 18: 27 New
        +1
        Quote: Olezhek
        Kurds do not think of any united Kurdistan.


        Excuse me, are you a Kurd?
        But it seems to me that Russians can say for Russians, for Poland, Polish people ...
        And what does the old woman Merkel want? The chort itself does not know. request

        A very good example, Iraqi Kurds and Syrians, like Russians and Poles, and what unites them?
        1. Bluesman
          Bluesman 8 December 2015 19: 09 New
          -2
          Quote: Kyrgyz
          Iraqi Kurds and Syrians roughly like Russians and Poles, and what unites them?

          oops .. don’t tear the Kurdophile’s template .... They say the same - “we’re armed with the Kurds !!! Urya-yayaya-me !!!”
          1. Olezhek
            8 December 2015 21: 07 New
            +1
            They say the same - "Aruda Kurds !!! Urya-yaya-me !!!"


            Kurds will have a serious support - Kurdistan will ...
  15. Same lech
    Same lech 8 December 2015 13: 52 New
    +3
    This man who is not afraid of anyone: neither America, nor Russia, nor Israel, nor the Arabs. Brave man


    Only the idiot and ERDOGAN from this breed of people are not afraid of anything.
  16. lukke
    lukke 8 December 2015 13: 53 New
    0
    giant problems with the Kurds (by the way, a very belligerent people, not Ukrainians in any way)
    And what - Little Russians are bad warriors?
    1. Kyrgyz
      Kyrgyz 8 December 2015 18: 31 New
      0
      Quote: lukke
      giant problems with the Kurds (by the way, a very belligerent people, not Ukrainians in any way)
      And what - Little Russians are bad warriors?

      The question is more in motivation, why should the Little Russians fight?
      1. Olezhek
        8 December 2015 18: 49 New
        0

        The question is more in motivation, why should the Little Russians fight?


        For the hut with cherries ... crying
    2. Weyland
      Weyland 8 December 2015 20: 04 New
      +2
      Quote: lukke
      And what - Little Russians are bad warriors?


      Do not confuse the concept. A warlike people is one that loves to fight (but not necessarily knows how do it). And vice versa. How did the old skinhead teach the young:
      - Son, imagine - you are walking around the city. Suddenly, to meet you
      a weirdly dressed man with long hair smiling and a guitar from behind
      his back sticks out ... Know son, it's a hippie - they don’t like to fight and do not know how.
      These must be brutally beaten.
      - Now imagine - you are walking around the city, dirty is going towards you,
      with hair dyed in bright colors and sticking out in all directions - this
      punk. Fight they love, but do not know how, you can have fun.
      - Now imagine - you are walking around the city, coming towards you
      long-haired man in a jacket with rivets, with a bottle of beer. Know son it
      metalworker - They don’t like to fight, but they know how. You can try to beat, but better not
      to contact.
      - And imagine another option - you walk through the woods, and suddenly from the bushes
      a long-haired man crawls out in strange clothes, with a smile, a guitar
      behind his back and a stick in his hands. This is a Tolkienist, and God forbid you
      mix it up with hippies ...
  17. iouris
    iouris 8 December 2015 13: 59 New
    +1
    "Sofa" in Turkish is something like a cabinet.
    It would be good for the authors to introduce themselves first, so that they can understand the level of competence and awareness in extremely complex issues of the Middle East and Middle East.
    In the Russian Empire, and in the USSR, there was a whole school of oriental studies. What is the matter with her now? According to the sensations, relations with Turkey, an important country for Russia in the Russian Federation, were maintained through shuttles and tour operators. This does not inspire.
  18. WHEEL
    WHEEL 8 December 2015 15: 21 New
    +7
    Quote: Bluesman
    . Kurds do not think of any single Kurdistan. Moreover, the Iraqi Kurds do not consider themselves Vasya Vasi with the Turks and especially the PKK as “their own”.

    Kurds are actually faithful dogs in the service of the Turks, when 100 years ago there was a genocide of Armenians, it was the Kurds who showed particular zeal in the destruction of Christians since they were promised the lands of the people they killed, and the territories of eastern Turkey drawn on the map (in the article) as Kurdish actually Armenian lands, I say this not by hearsay, but because My great-grandfather comes from the city of Van, which is on the shore of the lake of the same name, in 1915 he was 10 years old and he is the only one from the whole family who survived.
    1. Bluesman
      Bluesman 8 December 2015 15: 45 New
      +6
      Quote: WHEEL
      when 100 years ago the genocide of Armenians was precisely the Kurds

      yes, the Kurds in the massacre of Armenians took an active part until they realized that the Turks had thrown them corny. Fans of sticking out Kurds as "great warriors" and "advocates of statehood" for some reason prefer to remain silent about this. Like - well, who doesn’t happen to ...
    2. Weyland
      Weyland 8 December 2015 20: 11 New
      +1
      Quote: WHEEL
      when 100 years ago it was the genocide of Armenians, it was the Kurds who showed particular zeal in the extermination of Christians because they were promised the lands of the people they killed


      As they say - nothing personal, just business ... Turks prescribed Kurds to Kurds expel Armenians and were allowed to take their lands and property as a reward - and allowed while killing Armenians. Kurdish elders judged pragmatically, in a village way: today the Turks expelled the Armenians, and tomorrow Allah knows how to turn around - maybe they will allow them to return and order us to return their lands. So it’s safer to make sure that in case of which there is no one to make a claim ...
      Of course, this was exactly what the Turks intended - they knew the Kurds ... But now the Turks with honest eyes say that they only deported the Armenians, and the genocide is "an excess of the performer"
  19. red_october
    red_october 8 December 2015 15: 24 New
    +2
    Everyone knows this bright, dynamic, nervous president. The very expression on his face seemed to say: “Now I’ll take care of you and you won’t like it.” It’s hard to blame anyone, but Erdogan, for the lack of charisma and will. A sort of Nietzschean "man on a horse."

    Oh, it seems to me that this "bright, dynamic and nervous president" will sooner or later break the backbone of both himself and his country. No, not because Russia has caught up with its equipment in Syria and is solving tasks that run counter to the interests of Turkey.
    Just such characters go against the tide and are unprofitable for absolutely everyone. The puzzle of the Middle East policy with Erdogan’s participation doesn’t add up to anybody except him.
    And what tools will history choose to sweep this misunderstanding with its oil business into oblivion - this is the twenty-fifth case.
    .
    1. Olezhek
      9 December 2015 08: 24 New
      0
      Just such characters go against the tide and are unprofitable for absolutely everyone. The puzzle of the Middle East policy with Erdogan’s participation doesn’t add up to anybody except him.


      Absolutely accurate.
  20. IAlex
    IAlex 8 December 2015 15: 37 New
    +3
    Yes, yes ... "All Tatars except me" is the meaning of the article, if you replace the words Turkey with the Russian Federation, and the neighbors with the Black Sea Baltic states, then the article will also reflect the essence of the problems ...

    It was not hell to ruin their industry and the army, for the sake of the right to profit from trade - then you would not have to whine what all around are bad ...
    1. Bluesman
      Bluesman 8 December 2015 15: 59 New
      0
      Quote: IAlex
      Yes, yes ... "All Tatars except me" is the meaning of the article, if you replace the words Turkey with the Russian Federation, and the neighbors with the Black Sea Baltic states, then the article will also reflect the essence of the problems ...

      a plus. Constant reflected laughing
    2. Weyland
      Weyland 8 December 2015 20: 20 New
      +1
      Quote: IAlex
      if you replace the words Turkey with the Russian Federation, and your neighbors with the Black Sea Baltic states, then the article will also reflect the essence of the problems ...


      Something I don’t remember that the Kurds held their Pereyaslav Rada and voted for the voluntary entry into the High Port ...
      CSH, Russians and Ukrainians are fraternal peoples (like Abel and Cain wink ), and the Kurds are never relatives of the Turks ...
      1. IAlex
        IAlex 8 December 2015 20: 29 New
        0
        Have you heard the saying: "We are all brothers, only property is at odds"?
  21. Begemot
    Begemot 8 December 2015 16: 16 New
    +1
    Erdogan imagined himself a great politician for a long time, but turned out to be a primitive “useful idiot”, one can only hope that he will someday understand this, or who will explain to him, ideally Sergeant Petrov, the senior on guard.
    1. Bluesman
      Bluesman 8 December 2015 16: 33 New
      -1
      Quote: Begemot
      and turned out to be a primitive "useful idiot"

      I do not agree. Erdie is not so utilitarian, predictable and manipulative as you think. You can consider me a dreamer, but for some reason I would like to see some amendments to the NATO Charter about the "suspension of membership ..." laughing
  22. clidon
    clidon 8 December 2015 16: 58 New
    +3
    And only six months ago for the words "Well, I do not like this Erdogan" - on this site you could catch a couple of hundred minuses. From love to hate ...
    1. Olezhek
      8 December 2015 18: 58 New
      +2
      A thoughtful author then was absent on the site and did not write articles on the topic: "Turkish elephant is the best friend of the Russian mammoth .."yes

      But it would be inconvenient ...